of the regions of Europe this daie to forsake your Hereticall Schismaticall and Antichristian Churche of Rome and to ioigne them selues to the true Catholike and Apostolike churche of Christ whiche approueth all her doctrine out of the holie Scriptures and by the same reproueth all your heresies and erronious opinions the iudgement and triall of whiche holy Canonicall scriptures you neuer yet durst abide It is not therefore any priuate condemnation whiche is pronounced out of Gods woorde against heresies whose aucthoritie in all thynges is highest and of al menne to bee obeied Finally where you affirme that the churche of Christe was not destitute of the holy Ghoste I agree with you but that your Churche is the Churche of Christe I maie in no wise acknowledge And truthe it is that the true Churche did alwaies reclaime against the heresies of your church as thei sprong vp and increased in the worlde and receiued that reward whiche true Prophetes haue accustomed to receiue of wicked tyrantes namely persecution imprisonmente and cruell death as appeared in Bertramus Marsilius of Padua Pauperes de Lugduno Iohannes de Gandauo Bruno Andegauensis Iohannes Wickleue Iohannes Hus Hieronimus de Praga c. all whiche with many other in seuerall times places reproued and confuted your false Churche and the errours thereof some in Italie some in Fraunce some in Flaunders some in Germanie some in Bohemia and some in Englande and for the moste part were either murthered or otherwise cruelly persecuted for their labours But yet the heresies of your church did not escape vnspoken against and confuted by them The Papiste The sixte and laste consideration that I come not to their churche is because I am not of their Churche S. Augustine in putting difference of churches saieth how vnto them whiche haue not all one Sacramētes there can not be one religion nor consequently one Churche And the cause why I am not of their Churche but refuse to communicate with theym in religion besides this saiyng of S. Augustine that we should not Communicate in sacramentes with those men whose doctrine we can not aproue and allow I do refuse to be of their church because I cannot learne nor vnderstande of what church they are of For thei beyng first Baptized in the catholike churche and in the very self faieth and religion wherin I do at this present time beleue and remaine thei are departed therefro some to the Lutheranes Church some to the Zwinglians and comyng last of al to the church Geneua they are in maner fled from that church also and by attributing the chief supreme gouernment of this their English churche vnto the Quenes highnes thei are in doctrine directly against their old maister Caluine being the chief Apostle of the Church of Geneua whiche Caluine in the eight Chapter of the boke of his institutions doth directlie reason against Kynges and Princes for takyng vpon theim spirituall gouernment in the Church of Christ and in the same Chapiter he doeth muche commende the holy Bishop S. Ambrose and the noble Emperour Theodosius Ambrose for his greate stoutnes and resistance made against the Emperour And Theodosius for his greate submission and obediens shewed vnto the Bishop The history whereof is at large expressed in Ecclesiastica historia And the saide Caluine in hys exposition vppon the fowerth Chapiter of the prophete Amos doth taxe King Henry the eight by name because he alone of all other Princes was the first that toke vpon hym in the Church of Christ spirituall gouernmēt whose example in that poinct there was neuer one Prince in all Germanie nor yet in any place els where of the whole world that woulde followe the same but his owne naturall sonne Kyng Edward the sixte beyng then in his minoritie and againe the Queenes highnes that nowe is If therfore I shall departe from the comon knowen catholike Church wherin I stand I would gladly knowe of theim vnto what Church I shoulde repaire to be instructed with out errours wherin vnitie charitie and veritie doe dwel what forme of a churche are thei able to shew wherupon a christian man may be bolde to assure himselfe And if peraduenture they cease not ro pretende that the Primitiue Churche is that plat forme of the Churche wherunto they would reduce vs I answere that there be so many poinctes wherein they doe dissent from the Primitiue Churche like as I shall make sufficient proofe thereof that it can not be so it is onely pretended but it shall neuer be proued The Anabaptistes the Libertines and the Arians doe pretende gods worde and the Primitiue Churche as well as thei And because they are so bolde to name the primitiue church I aske of theim but this one questiō whether that this daie 50. or 60. yeres laste paste was their Church here in this realme or in any other parte of christendome VVhat particuler Church either here in Englande in the laste yere of Kyng Henry the eight his raigne or any other realme els can thei name that taught or receiued vniuersally throughout in all poinctes the doctrine that this presente Churche of Englande doeth now teache or from that daie a thousande yeres before that or from thence vnto the tyme of Christe and his Apostles If thei can not shewe any one suche Churche as I am well assured thei shall neuer be able to doe then it muste nedes followe that either Christe had no Church in the worlde al that tyme till now their commyng or elles it muste needes follow that their Churche is a new inuented and vpstert Church whiche with christes Primitiue church hath no agreans like as it shall moste plainly appeare vnto you by these profes followyng The aunswere In your laste consideration you doe inconsiderately alledge that you are not of our Churche but shewe no sufficient reason why you ought not to bee one of our Churche You saie we are departed from the churche in whiche we were baptised as though if a manne were Baptised in a Churche of heretikes he is bounde to remaine in the same Churche and heretical faithe of that Churche in whiche he was baptised so that if a manne were baptised in the Churche of Arrianes Nouatianes Donatistes Pelagians he might not forsake the faithe and Churche in whiche he was baptised to become a true Christian catholike A childe of seuen yere old maie see how slender a reason it is for a manne to continue in any Churche or Religion because he receiued baptisme therin For if a Papist maie not become a Protestāt because he was Baptised in the Popishe churche by the same reason a Protestant must not become a Papist if he were baptised in the Protestantes Churche which you your self by no meanes will graunte The seconde reason you bryng is of the diuersitye of churches the Lutherane the Zwingliane the Geneuian As though the diuersitie of some opinions not of the greatest importāce maketh diuers churches The churche of Salisburie the churche
it is Prophesied in the xij Chapiter of sainct Ihons Reuelation And yet for fiftie or sixtie yere agone it had been no harde matter to haue shewed you diuers members of our Churche bothe in Englande in Bohemia as th' historie of the church declareth at large Also in Fraunce at Merindoll and about Lyōs but these you will saie agreed not with vs in all poinctes but I will aunswere you thei agréed in the cheifest poinctes necessary to eternall saluation For whatsoeuer we are able to shewe for our Churche I am sure you are neuer able to shewe your self for your churche that whiche you require vs to shewe namely a churche that hath continued from this tyme vpwarde vnto the Apostles that taught vniformely and in all poinctes the doctrine that the Popishe Churche nowe teacheth Whiche thyng when you haue performed I will doe the like for oure Churche In the meane time that whiche is a sufficiente rule to finde out the true Churche by the iudgement of Saincte Augustine I will declare vnto you In his booke the vnitate ecclesiae Capi. 2. Inter nos autem Donatistat quaestio est vbi sit ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus In verbis nostris eam quaesituri sumus an in verbis capitis sui domini nostri Iesu Christi Puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum Betwene vs and the Donatistes saieth saincte Augustine the question is where the churche should bée What shall we doe then shall we seke her in our wordes or in the woordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that rather in his wordes we ought to seke her which is the truthe and beste knoweth his own bodie And in the. xvj chapiter of the same booke he writeth thus of the Donatistes Vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarū scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant That is whether thei haue the churche on their side let theim shewe none otherwise but by the Canonicall bookes of holy scriptures Many other suche testimonies are in S. Augustine by whiche it is plaine that he geueth this infallible rule to knowe the true churche to examine the doctrine therof onely by the scriptures But wheras you saie that Anabaptistes Libertines and Arians pretende the word of god and the primitiue Churche what meane you therby that we should forsake the worde of god the Primitiue churche by whiche all heretikes haue béen cōfuted what soeuer thei pretended For though heretikes pretende the scriptures yet onely by the scriptures thei are to be cōfuted though thei appeale to the iudgemente of the primitiue church yet by the primitiue church thei are condemned for heretikes I maie as well say that Arianes Libertines and Anabaptistes boste them selues to be the true Catholike Churche therefore wee must not allowe the true catholike churche It is pitie to see menne that would be coumpted wise and learned to reason so fondly and vnlearnedly For of all other reasons it is the vainest and feeblest shift that the Papistes vse to flie frō the scriptures to the aucthoritie of the Churche in confutation of heresies For there was neuer yet heresie did arise but there was as greate controuersie of the Churche as of the opinion for euery heretike boasteth as well of the Churche as of the scriptures but when all is dooen his bragges of bothe muste bee beaten doune onely by the scriptures But because you make so proude vauntes that you will so plainlie proue that our Churche hath none agreans with the primitiue churche of Christ in discourse of that controuersie with you I will sette for the bothe what is the Primitiue churche and how we agree therewith and I doubte not but that I shal bee able by the grace of God bothe to iustifie our cause againste your false accusations and also to ouerthrowe youre falshodde whiche you haue heaped vppe to ouerwhelme the truthe And as I haue confuted your sixe considerations which vnto you seme of greate importaunce so by Gods helpe I shall auoide all other youre calumniations in whiche with some subtiltie but more impudencie and moste of all impietie you goe aboute to intangle the consciences of suche as bee ignorante and vnlearned to withdrawe their obedience ▪ from the godly lawes of this realme whiche are established for the mainteinyng of Gods true Religion and the abolishyng of all Idolatrie and superstition The Papiste Argumentes gathered out of the Scriptures prouyng that this late reformed Englishe churche hath none agreans with the Primitiue churche of Christ. The aunswere The very title of your argumentes declareth of what force youre argumentes are Your reasons are tenne in noumber whiche if thei were all graūted to be true yet foloweth not this conclusion that our Churche hath no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe excepte you would affirme that all the doctrine of the Primitiue Churche were comprehended in these tenne poinctes Again your owne Popishe Churche differeth in these tenne poinctes as muche from the Primitiue Churche as ours therefore by your owne Logike I will conclude that your Popish churche hath no agreance with the church of Christ. 1. For neither you haue all thinges common 2. neither dooe you sell your houses and landes to putte the price in common 3. Neither doe you make diuision to euery manne accordyng to his necessitie 4. Neither are all mēbers of your Churche so prouided for that none dooe begge 5. Neither doe you baptise onely in the name of Christe 6. Neither dooe you giue the holy ghost by laiyng on your handes 7. Neither dooe you restore theim to health whom you annoincte with oile beyng sicke 8. Neither dooe you make open confession of your synnes 9. Neither dooe you celebrate the Sacramente after supper 10. Neither dooe you abstaine from bloodde and strangled therefore by your owne reason you haue no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe Or if you maie haue any agreance these differences notwithstanding why maie not we the same differences nothyng lettyng vs haue sufficient agremente therewith You see that either your argument is nothyng worthe or els you haue as little agreance with the Primatiue churche as we Your only refuge is this that it is not necessary for you to haue any agreance with the primitiue Churche And that is the opinion of all Papistes whiche is diligently to be noted that you disclaime of al title of the Primitiue Churche whiche you holde was but an infante and by addition of your doctrine and Ceremonies is growne to bee of womannes state As though Christ maried his Churche when she was vnder age and so the matrimonie was not ratified and consumated before the Pope had nourtured her in his schole vntill she came to yeres of discretion For it is as lawfull for me so to inferre vppon your allegorie as for you so to allegorise of her But that you maie the better vnderstande what
we meane by the primitiue Churche I putte you out of doubte that none of vs doeth attribute vnto her suche long limites as you doe in your argumentes gathered out of the Doctours where you alledge the seconde counsaill of Nice as a determination of the primitiue churche whiche was holden almoste eight hūdred yeres after Christe Of whiche thing you were not ignoraunt but you thought it was sufficiente to fill vnlearned eares with greate blastes voide of all reason or truthe Wherefore when wee appeale to the Primitiue Churche wee meane the Churche of the Apostles and their successours so longe as thei continue in the doctrine of the Apostles whereof triall is to be made by the Canonicall writynges of the Apostles That wheras you accuse vs for departyng frō your churche as though we were of no Churche wee defende our selues to be of the true churche seyng wée retaine the faithe and doctrine of the primitiue Churche whiche without all controuersie was the true churche Now as I haue shewed you what we accompte to bee the primitiue churche so muste I declare in what thynges wee are bounde to consente and agree with the same For whiche purpose we must marke this difference whiche I suppose no Papist is so farre paste shame to deny namely that in the primitiue Churche some thynges were necessarie and immutable some thynges againe were temporall and variable Of the firste sorte is the doctrine and Sacramentes of the latter sorte are Ceremonies and politike constitutions To the doctrine no manne maie adde no man maie diminishe no manne maie alter any thyng thereof The Sacramentes beyng as Augustine calleth theim the visible woorde bee of the same nature with the doctrine On the other side Ceremonies and publike constitutions mate bee reteined or chaunged as thei make beste for edificatiō for order and for comelines And of this latter sorte are all those thinges whiche you alledge in which we differ from the primitiue churche But yet so longe as we holde still the same faithe and the same Sacramentes whiche are lefte to vs by the primitiue Churche all reasonable men will iudge that notwithstandyng your reasons wee haue suche agreance with the primitiue Churche as may proue vs to be members of the same For it is the vnitie of faithe and Sacramētes not of Ceremonies and constitutions that ioigneth vs vnto the bodie of Christe as witnesseth sainct Paule to the Ephesi iiij One faithe one baptisme one god c. Now let vs particularly consider your tenne differences The Papiste First it is written howe the beleuers in the Primitiue churche had all thinges in common And no one man did reckon the thing that he did possesse to be his owne or priuate The aunswere Firste it it is a sporte to see howe to make a shewe of a greate multitude of dishes and to fill vp the noumber of tenne you diuide one matter into fower quarters whiche is of the cōmunitie of al thinges that was in the primitiue Churche whiche should haue been serued all in one mease but for fashiōs fake That thei had all thynges common one while in Hierusalem it is very true but that thei had so alwaies and in all places it is most false for saincte Paule exhorteth the Corinthians to giue almose to the poore liberally j. Cor. xvj and he willeth Timothe that he charge thē that be riche in this worlde to be ready to distribute vnto that necessitie of their brethren j. Timoth. vj. which neded not all if all thynges had been common This was therefore a variable order and constitution whiche continued but a shorte tyme neither was it profitable but onely then when the noumber of the disciples was but small in comparison and liued all in one place at Hierusalē The Papiste Seconde in the Primitiue Church suche of the beleuers whiche were possessors of Landes and Houses soulde theym and powred it doune before the Apostles but the beleuers of this oure late reformed Churche are not come to that perfection nor yet are aminded so to doe The aunswere This is all one with the former for how could thei haue had all thynges common if euery man had reteined his houses and landes to his priuate vse And yet no manne was compelled to this communitie for Peter saieth plainlie to Ananias that he neded not to haue sold his land neither to haue brought the price but of his free will. But whereas you accoumpt it a perfection to haue all thynges cōmon I muste bée bolde to tell you ye sauour of Anabaptistrie for although it was then expediente for thal tyme emong a fewe yet it were not tollerable to bee vsed as a pefection emong all the churche of Christ But would bryng a meere confusion and disorder of all thinges beside that it is vnpossible that all Christian men in all places should haue all thynges common The Papiste Thirdly in the primitiue churche Christes Apostles and their successours were chiefe gouernours of the beleuers and of such goods as they had in common amongest theim diuision vnto euery manne was made therof by the appoinctment of the Apostles according as they thought it nedefull or necessarie And because Ananias the husbande of Saphira wente aboute to kepe backe a portion of that comon mony for the which they sould their Landes the Apostle S. Peter did strike theim bothe with sodaine death But in this our reformed Englishe church beside that the beleuers are at no suche appoinctment of the Bishoppes and successors of the Apostles they doe by their lawes spoile theim of all they haue by takyng from them so muche of their temporall landes and so muche of their goods for firste fructes tenthes and subsidies as they liste And therfore in this poinct it hath no agreans with the order of the Primitiue church The aunswere The Apostles kepte not that gouernement long in their handes but committed it ouer to the Deacons as it is declared in the sixte chapiter of the Actes by which it is manifeste that it was no perpetuall order whiche in so shorte tyme was altered For in suche thynges the Churche maie institute and chaunge as often as it shall seme expediente But whereas you charge our Prince to bee a spoiler of the churche by withdrawyng the landes and gooddes thereof by takyng firste fruictes tenthes and subsidies you shewe your self what an honest subiecte your are We for our partes acknowledge that it is in the Princes power to increase or diminishe the stipend of the ecclesiasticall ministers as shal be thought expedient and that it is our dueties to paie all suche taxes tributes and subsidies as by lawfull aucthoritie are laied vpon vs But I meruaile why you should accuse our princes for taking of subsidies as though Popishe princes doe not take subsidies of their Cleargies also and moste of all when the Pope who hath no aucthoritie to demaunde one penie hath extorted suche infinite sommes of money for annates firste fruictes palles pardons and suche other
confections Neither did the Apostles by that decree commaunde any fastyng but onely abstinence from bloode and strangled beastes whiche was offensiue to the Iewes And for suche ende of auoidyng offences or for ciuile pollicie we can and doe admitte abstinence from some kindes of meates and drinkes but not for Religions sake neither accoumptyng any suche abstinence to bee fastyng But true fastyng to tame the bodie and to bryng it into subiection to humble our selues to make vs more apte to praie we commende and exhorte menne vnto it although we make no tyrannicall lawes to entangle any mannes conscience with all Your féeble kinde of reasonyng should not incurre so greate reprehension if you had not as well in your title as in youre conclusion made so bolde bragges of your plaine proofes whiche be so plaine in dede that euery manne maie see thei haue no force at all in theim And whereas you threaten to shewe that wée dooe all thynges contrary to the primitiue Churche you doe well to sate it shall bée performed in suche sorte as you haue proued already that wee haue none agreaunce with the same For he that hath experience howe pithely you haue reasoned out of the scriptures can not but hope that you will dispute euen as profoundly out of the Doctours The Papiste Argumentes gathered out of the holy Fathers and aunciente doctours prouyng that this late reformed Englishe Churche hath no agreance with the primitiue church of Christe The aunswere A man maie easely perceiue that you delight in greate nombers For as before in your former argumentes one matter was cutte into fower partes to fill vp the nomber so likewise in these argumentes without order or dispositiō diuers things are twise or thrise repeated As dipping in baptisme oile and Chrisme and crossyng whereas if you would haue followed any order all these should haue made but one argument of Ceremonies or Traditiōs Or if you would néedes diuide theim into their particulers you should haue made thirtie or fourtie argumentes of theim and not tenne onely But now how well you difine the primitiue Churche as I haue touched before a manne maie meruaile to see sometyme you alledge twoo hundreth somtyme three hundreth somtyme fower hundreth sometymes sixe hundreth and at length you come almost to eighte hundreth yeres after Christe when you alledge the seconde Counsaile of Nice whiche was holden in the yere of our Lorde seuen hundred eightie and one So that the greater halfe of all the tyme that hath passed from Christes ascention vntil this daie you would haue vs to take for the primitiue churche But you know full well that none of vs would allowe all that tyme for the primitiue Churche especially when wee speake of that state whiche we woulde haue to bee a paterne and example to all churches Onely your purpose was to amase your vnlearned frendes to whom you made this apology with the names of so manie aunciente fathers as you rehease and yet like a wise man you note but fewe places where a man should finde their aucthorities as you alledge theim lest you should happen to be discredited Whiche must needes be compted fraudulent dealyng because you note some wherof no learned manne will doubte and passe ouer so many whiche séeme somwhat straunge that any suche thinges should be to those that parhappes haue reade as muche of the aunciente doctours as you But vnto all your tenne as gumentes I wil first oppose one answere whiche is sufficiente to take theim all awaie namely that suche thinges as you bringe in to haue been vsed of the primitiue churche were not in the first churche of the Apostles whiche is moste properly called the primitiue churche but in the latter and more corrupte age and the further from the Apostles the farther from sinceritie Beside that of Ceremonies not manifestly impious vsed in the aunciente churche after the Apostles the churche at al tymes after hath power to abrogate or alter theim as they growe to bee abused or cease to be profitable therefore diuersitie of Ceremonies maketh not diuersitie of Churches The Papiste Firste in the Primitiue Churche they did mixe in our lordes cuppe water with wine and so for to doe est lex Euangelica traditio dominica as witnesseth S. Cypriane Irenaeus Eusebius Emissenus whiche these our reformatours will none of The aunswere The primitiue churche obserued in the sacramēt that which in drinking of wine they commonly vsed that is to put water among the wine to allaie the strength of it in whiche thyng there was no harme so long as superstition and opinion of necessitie was awaie but that it should bee as you saie lex Euangelica traditio dominica the lawe of the Gospell and the tradition of our Lorde I suppose you are not able to proue by aucthoritie of those Doctours whose names you recite In deede Cypriane verie earnestly vrgeth the law of the Gospell the institution of Christ for wine to bée vsed therein againste certaine heretikes of his tyme whiche contended that it should be ministered onely with water And so he writeth lib. 2. Epist. 3. to Caecilius Admonites autem nos scias vt in Calice offerendo dominica traditio seruetur neque aliud fiat à nobis quam quod pro nobis dominus prior fecit Vt Calix qui in comemorationem eius offertur mixtus vino offeratur Nam cum dicat Christus ego sum vitis vera sanguis Christi non aqua est vtique sed vinum That is Knowe thou that wee are admonished that in offeryng the Cuppe the tradition of our Lorde be obserued and that none other thyng be doen of vs then that which our lorde before did for vs That the cuppe whiche is offred in remembraunce of him be offered mingled with wine For seyng that Christe saieth I am the true Vine not water truely but wine is the bloude of Christe By this testimonie it is manifeste that Cypriane vrgeth wine and not water to be of the institution of Christe and the lawe of the Gospell But I marueile how any Papiste can bee so shamelesse to accuse vs for takyng awaie water out of the Cuppe whiche was no parte of Christes institution when thei them selues are so bolde to take awaie the cuppe altogether whiche is the one halfe of the Sacramente of Christes owne institution and continued in the Churche 1400. yeres after Christe vntill the late Counsaile of Constance whiche was but. 155. yeres agoen Thei maie robbe the people of the bloodde of Christe whiche Christe appoincted for theim and we are heinous heretikes for not vsing water in the Cup whereof as there is no vse so was there none institution This is the iudgemente of those that bée blinded with their owne pride to espie a mote in an other mannes iye and not to see a beame in their owne The Papiste Seconde in the Primitiue Church in baptising they vsed to dippe the partie baptized thries in the water and S.
the Apostles Hebr. v. whiche we retain although you saie in the ende we do not As for salte spettle cōiuration or exorcisme thei ar altogeher superfluous at this tyme Of exorcisme there was some vse in the auncient churche but of salte spittle which neuer are not mentioned in that place of Basile As there were many possessed with Deuills so there was some that that had this power of the holie ghost to caste out Deuils whiche were called exoreistes as witnesseth S. Cypriane in his fowerth boke and Epis. vij ad Magnū Quod hodie etiā geritur vt per exorcistas voce humana potestate diuina flagelletur et vratur et torqueatur diabolus Et cū exire et hoēs dei dimittere saepe dicat in eo tamē quod dixerit fallat id quod per Pharaonē prius gestū est eodem mendacio obstinationis et fraudis exerceat Cū tamen ad aquā salutarē atque ad baptismi sanctificationā venitur scire debemus fidere quia illic diabolus opprimitur homo dicatus diuina indulgentia liberatur that is Which thing also is doen at this day that by the exorcistes through the voice of a man and the power of God the deuil is scourged burned and tormented And although he saith oftētimes that he goeth out letteth go the men of God and yet in so saying deceiueth practiseth the same thing that was dooen before by Pharao with the same lye of obstinacie deceipt yet whē we come to the wholsom water and sanctification of Baptisme we muste knowe and beleue that there the Deuill is oppressed and the man whiche is there dedicated is by the mercie of god deliuered This one testimonie emong a number is sufficient to declare bothe that there was in the Churche menne indued with the gifte of castyng out Deuilles whiche visibly and sensibly did possesse menne and that Exorcisme at Baptisme was vsed for none other ende but to deliuer suche as were possessed and could not be deliuered by the Exorcistes before thei were baptised not that euery persone which was Baptised hadde neede of exorcisme but onely suche as were vexed with vncleane spirites And seyng that gifte of castyng out Deuilles doeth no more continewe in the Churche and thei that are to be Baptised are not possessed with Deuilles it were not onely vngodlines but also méere madnesse for such to take vpō them that power whiche haue it not or if thei had it to exercise it where there is no neede of it The Papiste Fifte in the Primitiue churche thei builded churches erected therin alters and offfered sacrifice theron which was a suer token and argument of the faieth of Christ receiued like as Chrysostome writeth of Englande howe that they had receiued the faieth of Christe because they had builded churches and erected Aultars in the same S. Beade witnesseth that sainct Augustine at the bringyng in of Christes faieth into Englande did set vppe Aultars wherupon the people did make their oblations and the preste did celebrate Masse which these our reformatours doe denie and destroie as greate blaspemie vnto God. The aunswere For buildyng of Churches in any sumptuous maner the primitiue church was not careful but vntil Constantines time continued in such places as thei could get sometimes most commōly in caues vnder the yerth when thei were persecuted and durste not assemble in open places And we at this time if we had not conueniēt places for the holie assembles would and wher suche conuenient howses lacke doe builde Churches and Oratories But not in the honour of Sainctes and Aungels as you doe whiche thing the primitiue and auncient Churche did not but iudged it to be meare Idolatry sacriledge and blasphemie As Basile in his 141. Epistle proueth the holy ghoste to be God because he hath a temple so doeth Didymus in his treatise de spiritu sancto because no creature but God onely can haue a temple S. Augustine de vera religione Cap. 55 saieth concernyng sainctes Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis Templa cōstruimus c. Wherfore we honor theim with loue and not with seruise neither doe we build churches vnto theim for thei will not be so honoured of vs Likewise in the. 8. booke 27. cap. de ciuitate dei he saith that christians builde no temples to Martyres and in verie many other places he writeth to the same effecte And as for Alters and Sacrifies the primitiue churche vsed none more then wee The auncient churche in deede nameth Aulters and sacrificyng but they meaned nothyng lesse then suche Aulters and sacrifices as the Papistes vse For the fashione of their alter whiche was the Communion Table so called of them also is to be seen in the Panegyricall oratiō made before Paulinus Bishop of Tyrus wher also the fashion of their Temples is described Euseb. lib. 10. Cap. 4. There was but one Aulter in all the Churche whiche stoode not againste the furthest wall at the East ende of the Churche as your Aulters but in the middest of the Churche and was compassed rounde aboute with Grates or Lattesses of woodde which were called Cancells the Chauncel with in whiche place so incloased the Communion was ministred and at the time of the ministration the Ministers and Deacones stoode round aboute the Aulter whiche is a manifest proofe that it was not an Aulter against a wall like youres but a Table standyng in the middest as ours is Laste of all what they vnderstode by the name of sacrifice I will discloase by one Testimonie of Chrisostome whiche shal be in steade of a greate number For this he writeth vpon the. x. chapiter to the Hebrues Hom. 17. Speaking of the sacrifice whiche the Churche doth offer Hoc autem quod facimus in comemorationē quidem fit eius quod factum est Hoc enim facite inquit in meam comemorationem Non aliud sacrificium sicut Pontifex sed ipsum semper facimus magis autem recordationē sacrificijeperamur This Sacrifice saieth he that we doe is done in remembrance of that whiche was doone For he saied doe this in remembraunce of me we dooe not offer an other Sacrifice as the high Prieste but wee offer the selfe same alwaies or rather we exercise the remembrance of that sacrifice By this testimony of Chrisostome it is euident that the olde writers when thei spake of Sacrifice did not meane the Popishe sacrifice of the Masse but onely the remembrance of the sacrifice of Christe which is the ministration of the Communion The Testimonie of Beda concernyng Augustine the Monke that came into Englande which you alleged is neither aunciente beyng aboue sixe hundred yeres after Christe neither yet of auctoritie to bee followed the same Augustine beyng a superstitious proude cruell and vnlearned Monke For his superstition Bede testifieth his pride and crueltie is set forthe in our Englishe histories his ignoraunce in doubtes and questions whiche he
is your blasphemous doctrine that me doe moste abhorre and your Ceremonies we hate the more for your doctrines sake You should therefore stande to the defence of your doctrine and not fight so egerly for your Ceremonies if you would vse good pollicie Nowe for these obseruations I haue aunswered before sufficiently by whiche as by the reste of myne answeres I truste it shall appeere to euery manne of indifferente iudgemente that notwithstandyng all your twentie argumentes of bothe sortes our Churche hath suche conformitie and agremente with the primitiue Churche of Christe that she maie bee truely compted a member of the same and partaker in the communion of all the sainctes of God. The Papiste Of what force streingth and estimatiō those thinges are of whiche haue been vsed in christes catholike churche it shal appeare by these testimonies of sainct Augustine followyng The aunswere Before you had spoken of the force of those matters you should haue doen well to haue considered the force of your argumentes whiche howe stronge so euer those thinges bee are to weake to proue that whiche you propounde namely that our Churche hath none agreaunce at all with the Primitiue Churche of Christe But seyng you will needes sette for the dignitie of these matters wee will seuerally consider all these fower argumentes The Papiste Firste sainct Augustine writyng againste the Donatistes saieth looke what thinges the vniuersall church of christe obserue and hath at all tymes obserued if the same bee not ordeined by any generall counsell thē it ought most firmely to be beleued that it came to vs onely by the auctoritie and tradition of the Apostles The aunswere Although I knowe what to thinke of vnwritten Traditions yet if you bee able to proue that al these thinges wherof you speake the vniuersall Churche of Christ doeth and hath alwaies obserued I will yelde to you that thei are the Tradition of the Apostles accordyng to your testimonie whiche if you canne not doe as I am well assured you will neuer bee able to dooe it by your owne reason and aucthoritie we neede not holde theim for Traditions of the Apostles nor yet decrees of generall Counsailes The Papiste Second sainct Augustine in hys Epistle ad Casulanum saieth how in all these thinges whereof the Scriptures hath made no certeine determination the maner of the people of god ▪ or decrees of our elders must be taken and holden as a lawe to gouerne our selues and in the same Epistle he maketh mention how the Sondaie because it is not fasted whiche fastyng is a Sacrifice acceptable to God ▪ Therefore saieth he the Sondaie maie not bee celebrated and kepte without an other Sacrifice whiche is acceptable to God. The aunswere The Scripture hath determined of all necessarie articles of faithe and againste all superstitious opinions and Ceremonies And these thynges you speake of we proued to bee suche therefore in theim by Saincte Augustines rule neither the custome of people nor the decrees of elders muste take place but the aucthoritie of Goddes woorde But of suche thynges as bee variable Ceremonies for edification order and comelinesse sake diuers particuler Churches maie make particuler decrees whiche are nothyng preiuditiall to the vniuersall Churche of Christ whiche is the principall argumente that saincte Augustine handeleth in that 86. Epistle to Casulanus where he defendeth the custome of the moste parte of the Churche againste the custome of the Churche of Rome As I haue touched before whiche thyng of you will in no wise bee allowed And as concernyng the Sacrifice he speaketh of to bee celebrated on Sondaie he meaneth not the propiciatorie Sacrifice of the Masse as perhaps you would seme to inferre But the celebration of the communion for thus he writeth in the same Epistle against Vrbicus Dicit cessisse pani pecus tanquam nesciens tunc in domini mensa panes propositionis poni solere nunc se de agni immaculati corpore partem sumere dicit cessisse poculo sanguinem nō cogitans etiam nunc se accipere in poculo sanguinem He saith that the Shepe hath giuen place to the breade as though he were ignoraunt that then also the Shewbread was vsed to bée sette on the Lordes boarde and that now also he taketh parte of the bodie of the immaculate Lambe he saieth that bloodde hath giuen place to the Cuppe not consideryng that now also he receiueth bloode in the Cuppe These woordes declare bothe that the Sacrifice was nothyng but the Communion and also that the wine is none otherwise called bloodde then the bread is called a lambe and that the bread in nature and substaunce is suche as was the Shewbreade in whiche was no transubstantiation and thirdely the necessitie of the Communion in both kindes if this analogie of Augustine must stande wherfore sainct Augustine in this Epistle maketh little for your purpose The Papiste Thirde saincte Augustine in his thirde Epistle ad Ianuarium saieth that the thinges whiche we doe obserue throughout the whole worlde beyng not written but deliuered vnto vs either from the Apostles or generall counselles the aucthoritie wherof is notable and as of theim receiued ought to be obserued as the yerely remembrance and feastes of the passion of Christe of his ascention into heauen and of the cōmyng of the holy ghost whiche are celebrate in the Churche of Christe or any other like thing whiche is vniuersally obserued from whatsoeuer it first came fro and therefore saieth sainct Augustine in the same Epistle to reason or dispute why the same thinge ought to be obserued whiche of long tyme hath been obserued throughout the whole world by the auctoritie of christes church insolentissima insania est it is a poincte saieth he of extreme madnes And therfore saieth saincte Aug. the chaunge made of so long a custome yea though the same shoulde be verie profitable yet by the newnes thereof it doeth vexe and trouble the Churche of Christe it is made vnprofitable vnfruictful and finally hurtfull to the church of christ and for an example therof he doth there alledge how the disciples of christ did receiue the body and blood of christe not fastinge but after supper is the vniuersall church of christe therefore to be reproued or the custome therof to be chaunged whereby wee do in the same receiue the body and blood of christe fastyng and that for a more reuerence therunto in preferryng the foode of the soule before the foode of the bodie doubtles so for to doe it shoulde bee after the minde of Augustine both hurtfull vnto the churche of christ and a greate ponct of madnesse The aunswere This testimonie in effecte is the same with the former Sainct Augustin would haue suche Traditions as haue alwaies been vsed in the Churche to bee supposed that either thei came from the Apostles or from the generell Counsailes but here wee haue diligently to consider that wée admitte not all suche thynges as are called Traditions but onely suche as are
sola virtute Iesu Christi qui dixit confidice ego vici mundum alibi princeps huius mundi eijcitur foras quare nos sola eius virtute confidamus mundum posse vincere diabolum superare The fifte rule of a godly mā is that thou doe not trust in those twelue peeces of armour nor in any other humane remedie but in the onely vertue of Iesus Christ which saieth be of good corage I haue ouercome the world in an other place the prince of this world is cast out wherfore lette vs trust by his vertue alone both to ouercome the world and to vanquishe the Deuill Also in his booke de conflictu carnis animae Cap. 6. Tibi domine deus meus attribuitur quicquid pertinet ad potentiam diuinam autem potentiam euidentius nihil manifestat quam iustificare impium hoc est trahere peccatorem iuxta quod legitur Deus qui omnipotentiam tuam parcendo maxime miserando manifestas melius enim est iustificare quam creare cum creando detur natura iustificando autem auferatur culpa conferatur gratia To thée O lorde my god is ascribed whatsoeuer perteineth to power and there is nothing that setteth forthe the power of God more euidently then to iustifie an vngodly man that is to draw a sinner accordyng as it is redde O God whiche shewest thine almightie power most of all in sparyng and shewyng mercie for it is a greater mater to iustifie then to create whereas in creating nature is geuen but in iustifiyng sinne is taken awaie and grace geuen I will conclude with Venantius in his exposition of the Crede wherein he followeth Ruffinus vppon the Article of remissiō of sinnes vsing almost the very wordes of Ruffinus saieth on this maner Remissionem peccatorum nobis in hoc sermone sola cre dulitas sufficit nec ratio requiritur vbi principalis indulgentia comprobatur Onely beliefe in this speache is sufficient to geue vs remission of sinnes neither is any reason required where mercie is proued to be the principall cause Seiyng therfore that wee are compassed as the Apostle saieth with suche a cloude of witnesses I cannot but meruaile with what face the aduersaries canne so cōfidently pronounce that the doctrine of iustification by faith alone is newe doctrine neuer harde of in the Churche before this fortie or fiftie yeres And for as muche as the witnesses are in nomber so many in tyme so auncient in learnyng so excellent that of all men they are reuerenced and séeyng their testimonies are so diuerse all to one ende some affirmyng the doctrine in plaine termes some yeldyng reasons therof some shewyng proofes and argumentes for it some aunsweryng obiections made against it and euery one of these in seuerall wordes phrases and maners of speakyng I am suer though subtiltie canne deuise startyng holes to elude some of theim all the crafte of the Deuill cannot bée able to auoide theim al. And if the only admonitiō of August be thought of you sufficient for both learned men and Christian menne whiche is that a baren deade and vnstructfull faithe is not sufficient for saluation what thinke you so many admonitions of so sundrie both learned and christian writers ought to woorke with all men teaching that a true and liuely faith alone in the onely mercie of God by Iesus Christe doth iustifie We agrée with Augustine that a solitarie faith doth not iustifie if you can as well agree with the scripture and almost all auncient Fathers that a fruictfull faith alone doeth iustifie not by merite of the fructes but by takyng holde of Gods mercie The Papiste And that which is most of all to be meruailed at wheras the religion of this reformed Church hath lefte vs nothing to serue God withall but this onely and alone faith whiche they doe affirme to suffice they doe by the free choise and will of man denied clene take awaie this onely faith also like as al other gifts graces benefits vprising vnto man by the death and blood sheding of Iesus Christe For so muche as the free will of manne is the seate of grace and the mansion house of faieth whereby faieth is produced and brought foorth by the grace of God as chiefe agent and worker thereof and in the will of man as in an apte receptackle and place to receiue the same when no man canne beleue but he that will. And therfore for man to beleue both these two thinges are necessarilie required First is the acte of Gods grace stirryng and mouynge the will of man therunto second is the consente of mannes will to applie and receiue the same without the whiche consente of mannes will Goddes grace knocketh all in vaine As it appeareth by the citezeins of Hierusalem vnto whom our sauior Christ saieth in the Gospell Hierusalem Hierusalem whiche dooest slaie the Prophetes and stonest them to death that are sent vnto thee how often tymes would I haue gathered thy children like as a Henne gathereth her chickens vnderneath her wynges and thou wouldest not I would saith christ but thou O Ierusalē wouldest not VVherby it appeareth that god by his grace doth not worke his belefe in the soule of man as in a stocke or in a stone with out any consente of mans parte to be geuen thervnto whē there is no man that can by any other meane receiue faithe then by the consente of his owne will and therefore in the worke of faithe Gods grace and mans will muste consente and ioigne together bothe The Apostle saincte Paule in witnesse thereof saieth by the grace of God I am that I am and his grace in me was not in vaine but I haue laboured more aboundantly then thei all and not I saieth saincte Paule but the grace of God with me and not without me as workyng before in me and without my consente but mecum with me For Augustine saieth that almightie God whiche in the beginnyng did create manne without any consent askyng of manne therevnto he will not nowe iustifie manne constreinedly and whether he will or not but with his owne consente will and desir◠therevnto For the kyngdome of heauen saieth our sauiour Christ suffereth violence and the onely violente menne whiche here will trauaile laboure and fight therefore shal be partakers of that kyngdome VVhē the ioyes of heauen are not so vile nor so meane thynges like as the Apostle saincte Paule saieth but thei are worthe the labouryng for seyng therefore it can not bee denied without deniall of the expresse testimonies of the scriptures but that the consente of mannes will must necessarily come with Goddes grace to receiue faithe therefore in the deniyng of the consent of mannes will thei deny faithe and thus in fine the religion of this newe reformed churche is brought all circumstaunces beyng duely examined from onely faithe and faithe alone to haue no faithe at all The aunswere It is a greate marueile to see
the Arians did agree with the Christen menne in theim bothe as in all Sacramentes and in all poinctes of praiyng sauing that the Arians did sing Gloria patri in filio and the Christian menne Gloria patri filio c. And therfore and for that onely poinct Ihō Chrysostome then beyng Bishop of Constantinople did appoincte vnto the christian men a seperate place and maner of praier from them as it appeareth in the sixth of the Historie Ecclesiastike And therefore the notable doctour S. Augustine doth conclude on thys wise saiyng that they shall not communicate in Sacramētes with vs whose doctrine we cannot approue and allowe The aunswere Your third consideration standeth vppon a foolishe fallation of Sophistrie called petitio principij whiche is whē a man will take that as true whiche his aduersarie will not graunte hym As you doe in this your argument where you take that for a true principle whiche you shall neuer be able to proue namely that we are Heretikes and Schismatikes And so you committe double folie Firste in prouyng that so diligentely whiche no manne will deny whiche is that a manne ought not to communicate in religion with Heretikes and secondly in bringing no proofe at all of that which all your aduersaries wil deny namely that thei are Heretikes or Schismatikes For you must first prooue that thei are suche before you can proue that you ought to auoide their societie The Papiste The fowerth consideration is that the receiuyng of this new booke of seruice is a condemnation of the olde wherby is taken away 5. of the. 7. Sacramentes the reall presence of Christes body in the Sacramente of the alter the sacrifice of the masse many traditions of the Apostles as the holiyng of the Fonte oile and Chrisma in Baptisme and Confirmation the making of the signe of the Crosse praiers for the deade and vnto sainctes All sacramentall and godly cerimonies frequented in the vniuersal churche of Christe and brougt into this realme with the faithe of Christe by S. Augustine and here by hym established as suer signes and tokens of christian faieth like as the holy S. Bede witnesseth in his firste boke de gestis Anglorum in the 25.29.30 chapiters beside that all the foresaide thinges haue been alwaie approued vsed and allowed throughout the vniuersal church of christ And therfore saieth S. Augustine all these thinges whiche haue been receiued in the vniuersall Churche of Christe and approued by the vse and consente therof ought not to be ouerthrowen nor yet to be chaūged by the iudgemente of one priuate person be his learnyng and liuyng neuer so good nor yet by the Bishoppes of any one prouince or countrie when thereby they shoulde breake the vnitie of Gods spirite whiche is the chief treasure in his Churche commended by our sauiour Christe vnto his Apostles wishynge and praiynge the same vnitie to be amongest theim whiche was betwixt him and God Ioan 17 the father The Apostle S. Paule tought the Corinthians aboue all thinges to obserue this vnitie and willed the Romaines that with one minde and one mouth they shoulde glorifie god And in the Epistle to the Ephesians he besought theim most entirely to obserue this vnitie Again S. Augustine saieth these thinges whiche the vniuersall churche doth teache therfore are to be obserued and kepte of all menne because the churche which is the spouse of Christ hath the full aucthoritie of her husband Christ and suche gouernement also of the holy ghost that she cannot consent but to true thinges nor she cannot commaunde but onely suche thinges whiche are both holy holsome and good And farther the same S. Augustine saieth that in the ministratiō of the Sacramentes and in the manner of praiyng vsed of Preestes there must be an vniformitie obserued in Christes catholike Churche that by their Lawe and maner of praiyng there may be established the lawe of beleuyng And lest that the lawe and maner of praiyng being chaunged may also bring foorthe a chaunge and alteration of faieth like as it hath so proued in thys realme Beside that S. Ambrose doth thinke that there can not bee the faieth where Schisme is for albeit that schismatikes may haue faieth towardes God yet they cannot haue faieth towarde the Churche of God whom they suffer to bee dismembred and discerped in peeces For wheras our sauiour Christe suffered for his Churche and the Churche is the mysticall bodie of Christe how therfore may thei haue faith in christ by whom his Passion is made frustrate and his mysticall bodie drawen in peeces And therefore woulde not we shoulde chaunge an order set or a custome of Christes churche For albeit saieth he the reason or cause of a custome may be sought for yet must it be so sought for that the custome thereby be not infirmed or broken for the searche may not bee made vnto destruction but vnto aedification wherby thou maist better obserue the custome when thou arte assured of the cause and reason therof I do praise thee saieth Tertuliane whiche firste doeth beleue the custome to be obserued before it hath learned the cause and reason why and wherfore The aunswere In your fowerth consideration you should haue likewise considered that suche thynges as are graunted of bothe partes nede small proofe and that those matters whiche are in controuersie should be substancially cōfirmed As for example How necessarie vnitie is for the Churche of Christe no manne doubteth so it bee in truthe and not in falshed for there is vnitie emong the mooste wicked but not in truthe and honestie On the other side that there be fiue sacramentes more then the boke alloweth that there is a carnall presence in the Sacrament of the Lordes bodie and bloude that there is or ought to be a Sacrifice in the masse ye bring not one worde of proof Concernyng Ceremonies whiche you call traditions of the Apostles you saie in deede a little although to little purpose and yet so confusely and out of all good order that you seme rather to confounde then to instructe your simple reader for what an hochpotte is this in the middes of your Sacramentes and Sacramentalles to choppe in praiers for the deade and inuocation of sainctes whiche bée articles of doctrine and not Ceremoniall obseruations Againe when you haue rehersed by name diuers Ceremonies as oile and chrisme in Baptisme your maner of confirmation the signe of the Crosse and all other your Sacramentalls and Ceremonies you bryng in certain broken and vnperfecte sentences of Doctours whiche speake generally of Ceremonies vsed in the churche in their age and doe not shew that your Ceremonies were vsed then in suche maner as you vse them now which is a meere mockerie of your readers For wheras you doe comprehende thē all vnder the name of Traditions of the Apostles if you be a man of suche learning as you would seme to be I dare saie in your behalfe you will bee ashamed to come to triall of this poincte that
as scandalum acceptum but so geuen as scandalum datum of my parte And wher as it hath been often tymes obiected vnto me how that it is but a very small matter to sticke or staie at for to come to the Church and heare the saied seruice beyng set at libertie secretly and priuily to praie with my self whatsoeuer I shall thinke mete for he aunswere I doe reade in the Scriptures howe Eleazarus the Preest is in the same commended because he would not dissemble the eatyng of swynes fleshe wheras he might haue escaped the paynes of death therby Tertulliane writeth a booke in the praise of a Souldiar and entituleth his boke de corona militis because that Souldiar refused in natali die Seueri imperatoris to weare but a Garlande of flowers vpōn his heade because he should therin then haue followed the maner of the gentiles and heathen people And rather or he would do so small a mattet as to weare but a Garland of flowers he did suffer inprisonment and therfore is commended of so greate a clerke as Tertullian was Theodoritus in hys second booke of the historie Ecclesiastike in Cap. 24. doth note Leontius Bishoppe of Antioche of greate dissimulation for as much as he beyng present in the quire at Antioche and in the hearing of christian men there to sing Gloria patri filio c. and the Arians Gloria patri in filio c. Contrariwise he did there openly take nether partie but priuily at the ende of euery psalme did sing Gloria pari in saecula saeculorum Amen And so he mumbled it vp to hym selfe vt ab instantibus vix audiri posset whose example therfore beyng so manifest and so well admonished therof I purpose not to followe God willyng VVhen to dissemble with a mā I hold it no honestly to dissemble with my Prince it is the iuste deserte of perpetuall discredite and infamie but to dissemble with God it is most impietie from the whiche detestable sinne I am vtterly resolued by the word god spoken by the mouth of Helias saiyng Vsquequo claudicatis in duas partes How long will you halte or limpe on both sides And S. Ihon in his reuelation saieth Because thou arte neither whot nor colde therfore I shall beginne now to vomit and cast thee out of my mouth The premisses well waighed it cannot be iustly saied that I sticke at a trifling or small matter but a matter of greate importance and conscience moueth me therunto and forceth me that I shoulde not vnaduisedly without greate cause seperate my self from the vnity of the Churche neither to condēne the vniuersal church vnheard hauing no iust or weightie cause why I should so doe For I haue alwaies and doe thus waigh the matter with my selfe that the poinctes and matters of religion which this boke of seruice hath condemned or taken awaie ether thei were thought matters of smal importāce and did no harme but being rightly vnderstanded might haue doen good or els thei were to be taken for matters of impietie and intollerable to be borne withal In case thei were of the firste sorte whiche thei haue condemned and abolished Then in my iudgement they should haue been tolerated and borne withall for charities sake and for the continuance and encrease of vnitie betwixte vs and the vniuersall Church of christendom On the other side in case thei had been taken for matters intollerable and could in no wise haue been borne with all for their impietie as it hath been pretended then yet in my cōscience we ought to haue been better aduised then by our priuate condemnation of theim to haue shewed our selfe to condemne thereby al the whole vniuersall church of impietie vnheard which thinges the vniuersall church hath vsed from the Apostles time and doe to this daie As touching matters of right faieth and godly maners the churche of Christe beyng the spouse of Christ was neuer destitute of the holy ghost neither could nor woulde in all this tyme haue borne or dissembled any impietie like as S. Augustine writeth hereof The Church of God beyng placed and put among muche chaffe and many Cockles and wedes the same church doth suffer and beare with many thinges yet that notwithstandyng touchyng the thinges whiche are against faithe and against good life the Churche doth neither approue theim nor yet lette theim escape vnspoken against The aunswere In that you will not dissemble against your conscience if you doe not dissemble but speake as you thinke you are to bee commended but if your conscience as you saie is not yet perswaded you are by no meanes to bée excused for in this so cleare light of the Gospell you could not bee so blind if you did not obstinately close your iyes from receiuyng the Sunne beames into theim And whereas you thinke it not reason to departe from the vnitie of the churche nor to condemne the vniuersall Churche vnheard you stande vpon a false grounde as you dooe alwaies that the Popishe Churche is that vniuersall Churche but that you shall neuer be able to proue For was the Popishe churche at any tyme or is it nowe vniuersalle But the Romishe churche you will saie is alwaies vniuersall though it haue neuer so many enemies But I can shewe you by saincte Augustines iudgemente that the vniuersall Churche maie bee without the Romishe churche For writyng to Casulane Epi. 86. he hath these woordes speakyng of one that defended the Ceremonies custome of the Romishe churche against the whole catholike Churche Quod vtinam sic quaereret aut sic affirmaret vt toto terrarum orbe diffusam exceptis Romanis adhuc paucis occidentalibus apertissimè nō blasphemaret ecclesiam that is to saie whiche thyng I would he did seeke in suche maner or so affirme that he did not moste manifestly thereby blaspheme the churche dispersed through out the whole worlde excepte the Romanes and a fewe other Westerne Churches Doe you not here see that when the Romishe churche with a fewe other that agréed with her are exempted the vniuersall churche of Christe still remaineth by sainct Augustines iudgemente and that if the Romishe Churche departe from the whole Catholike Churche the Romishe Churche is a Schismatike as it is at this daie and hath been a long time euen since Antichriste sette vp his seate there and made a generall departyng from the faith of Christ which sainct Paule prophesieth should come to passe ij Thessal ij All the whiche tyme though there were but few that continued in true faithe and honouryng of God yet those fewe wheresoeuer thei were scattered in all the worlde wer the true catholike Churche of Christ and were alwaies ioigned together in Christe their heade by vnitie of true religion And whereas you saie your Churche is vnhearde I maruaile what you meane for what can the Pope or any of her proctours saie in her defence but it hath been hearde and confuted by the scriptures Whiche thing hath caused the most part
of Yorke and the churche of Bangor had some diuersitie in their maner of seruing God and yet you will saie thei were all one Popishe Churche But to the purpose you recite more names then there be diuersities of opinions For Zwinglius and Caluine in the matter of the Sacrament whiche you shoote at are all one and Luther differeth from them And yet the difference is not so great but that thei bee all of one Catholike Churche because thei agree in the onely foundation Iesus Christe and in all opinions that are necessary to Saluation although Luther in his opinion of the Sacramente as a man was deceiued And that diuersities of opinions so longe as the principall groundes of faithe bee obserued vncorrupted doeth not make diuersitie of churches you maie easily see by this example S. Cypriā and all the Churches of Affrica were in this error that such as were baptised by heretikes should be baptised again which was a very perilous errour Cornelius Stephanus the Bishops of Rome with the Churches of Europe were in the contrary opinion And yet no man euer refused S. Cypriane to bee a member of the Catholike churche nor iudged the churches of Affrica that followed his errour to bee of any other thē of the vniuersall church of Christ emong whom were many martyres and godly men which liued died in the same error Now cōpare Cypriane Luther the one erring in the Sacrament of Baptisme the other in the Sacramente of the Supper if the errour of th' one did not separate hym from the communiō of the catholike church no more cā the error of the other Whiche thing if it were well weighed would remoue that stōblyng blocke that troubleth many weake persones but can hinder no learned man cōcernyng the controuersie of Luther and Zwinglius The third reason is that we are departed from the Churche of Geneua because we ascribe supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall matters to the Quéenes highnes Firste we must bee bolde to tell you that as we reuerence and honour all particulare Churches where true religion is established so we doe not grounde our self vpon either the opinion or custome of any one but onely vpon the worde of God and so farre foorthe to followe euery one as thei come neare to the same rule But whereas you would sette that excellente godly Churche of Geneua at variaunce with vs aboute the supremacie your childishe quarrellyng shall easily appeare to all menne You alledge Caluine againste vs in twoo places one in his Institutions an other in his Comentarie of the Prophet Amos. A man in deede from whom we would bee lothe to dissente excepte it were for a greate cause A manne of suche godlie learnyng and profounde knoweledge in diuinitie as all the Papistes that euer were are not worthie to carrie his bookes after hym But before I aunswer you I muste admonishe you that either your copies whiche came to my handes were verie muche corrupted or els you haue recited those places by hearesaie rather then by your owne obseruatiō Your copies sendeth me to the viij Chapiter of his Institutions namyng no booke and to the fowerth Chapiter of Amos whereas that you speake of the one place is in the fowerth boke and twelue Chapiter of his Institutions the other in the seuen Chapiter of Amos. So that in deede it was more labour to seeke your places then to make aunswere to them Concerning the firste I meruaile you were not ashamed to alledge Caluine againste vs where he saieth that Kynges and Princes are subiecte to the discipline of the Churche as Theodosius was content to be excommunicated by saincte Ambrose for the murther he had committed in Thessalonica which none of vs denieth and doe not remember how substauncially he proueth that godlie Princes haue aucthoritie and ought to maintain true religion by lawes decrees and iudgementes whiche is all the supreme gouernemente that wee ascribe to the Quéenes highnes And as for the place of Caluine vpon Amos the truthe is this Caluine findeth fault not with kyng Hēry but with those that did ascribe that title vnto hym and sheweth for what reason he misliked the same Not that he denied his lawfull aucthoritie whiche was meant by that title of all his godly and true subiectes but because Steuen Gardener bishop of Winchester by false vnderstandyng thereof declared that he vnderstode nothing therby but the tyrannie whiche the Pope vsurpeth ouer the churche to be translated vnto the kyng And therfore at a solemne cōference at Ratisbone in Germanie after the Popes aucthoritie by acte of Parliament was abolished out of the realme he defended all Popishe religion whiche remained vnreformed to bee good and godlie because it was established by the kings aucthoritie who was supreme head of the churche He disputed not by reasons neither cared he for the testimonies of scriptures but saied it was in the kynges power to abrogate all Lawes and establishe what he thought good in the churche as to forbidde Priestes marriage to forbidde laie menne the vse of the Cuppe in the Churche and all other suche matters he saied were in the kynges aucthoritie This he saied of the Kynges power abroade and howe he abused that noble Prince at home to make the Acte of sixe Articles and other thynges of like effect there be many yet aliue that can remember But seeyng this title of supremacie dooeth so muche offende you I praie you lette me demaunde one question of you Who did first inuent it here in England Or who did first ascribe it to kyng Henry Was it not the whole Popishe Cleargie of Englande when thei were caste in the Premunire for mainteinyng the power Legantine of Cardinall Wolsey and submittyng theim selues vnto the Kynge they flattered hym with that title and offered hym a greate somme of money for their pardon as witnesseth Halle and Grafton in their histories and ther be yet aliue many that can remēber it So that if there were any faulte in it you should blame them and not vs for it For so farforthe as beyng rightly vnderstoode it declareth the lawfull power of the Prince wee did and doe yelde vnto it but not in Steuen Gardiners sence whiche Caluin in the place by you alledged doeth cōfute After this you require vs to shewe you a Churche where vnto you maie resorte whiche hath continued euen since Christ whiche if it can not bee shewed you conclude in th' ende that Christ had no churche or els our Churche is not Christes Churche Againe where our Church was fiftie or sixtie yeres agon If a manne had asked of Elias where the churche of God was in his tyme he could not haue made aunswere and yet God had his Churche in Elias tyme The Churche is not alwayes apparaunte to the iyes of the blynde worlde in whiche she is a straunger but is compelled sometymes to flie into the wildernesse out of the sight of men by the persecutiō of the deuill and his members as
tromperie whereof how greate complaintes the Cleargie of Englande hath made you maie reade in Mathewe of Westminster in the liues of diuers kynges and namely of Henry the thirde and Edward the first One historie is notable that the Pope fente a Legate called Otto with a letter complainyng of the greate pouertie of the Churche of Rome whiche was the cause that she was compelled to pille and polle poore suters that sued to the Courte of Rome in remeadie whereof he demaunded of euery Cathedrall churche two prebendes and of euery Religious house so much as the portiō of two Mōkes or cloisterers came to by yere But the Cleargy would in no wise graunte it The same requeste was made in Fraunce but could not bee obteined Wherefore euery man maie see how maliciously you slander the prince whiche hath aucthoritie to take for necessarie affaires of the realme so longe as a competent liuyng remaine vnto the Ministers The Papiste Forth it is writtē of the Primitiue church that of suche goods which thei had in common ther was such equall diuision made by the handes of the Apostles that no one man of the beliuers did lacke or was forced of necessitie to begge But since the reformation of this Englishe church many especially of the Clergie which were before well able to liue are now brought vnto a very bare and beggerly life and estate The aunswere This diuision lasted not longe emong the Apostles at Hierusalem for saincte Paule from the Churches of the Gentiles receiued almose to supplie the necessitie of the poore sainctes at Hierusalem and by Peter Iames Ihon he was exhorted so to doe as you maie reade in the seconde to the Galathians and the second to the Corinth viij and. ix And as for your Cleargie if any of theim bee broughte to beggerie it is through their owne ignoraunce and frowardnesse whiche either will not forsake their heresies or are not able to minister in the Churche of Christ if any worthie menne bee neglected it is the faulte of some priuate persones and not of the whole Churche The Papiste Fiueth in the Primitiue church christes Apostles did baptise the beleuers onely in the name of Iesus Christe and not by expresse woordes of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghoste the whiche forme of baptizyng vsed in the Primitiue churche these new reformatours vse not The aunswere That any of the Apostles Baptised onely in the name of Iesus Christe excludyng the name of the father and of the holy ghost it is a detestable sclaūder of the holy apostles Who as thei had an expresse commaundement of our sauiour Christe to baptise in the name of the blessed Trinitie the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost so there is no doubt but thei did alwaies obserue it which is easily to be gathered out of the. xix chapiter of the Actes where certain disciples of Ephesus beyng vnorderly baptised by some preposterous disciples of Ihon aunswered thei knewe not whether there were an holy ghost or no sainct Paule then doeth demaunde into what thei were baptized as though he should saie if you had been rightly Baptized you could not haue been ignorante of the holy ghost but by their aunswere he perceiued that thei were baptised into the name of Ihon and not of Christe as though Ihon had béen the head of their religiō and not christ Then after S. Paule had declared that Ihons doctrine baptisme was to bee referred altogether to Iesu Christe thei were baptised into the name of Iesus Christe that is to acknowledge Iesus Christ to be the heade and aucthour of their Religion not that in the forme of their Baptisyng the name of the father of the holy ghost was excluded And so are all other places to be expounded where it is saied that any are baptised in the name of Iesus christ And in no place is it said that any manne was baptised onely in the name of Iesus Christ. Wherfore this cauillation as it vnproffitable for your purpose so is it slanderous and blasphemous against the Apostles The Papiste Sixte in the Primitiue Churche the Apostles Peter Ihon and their Successours did geue the holy Ghost vnto their beleuers that were before baptized by laiyng their handes vppon their heades whiche thinge our reformators of this our English churche doe refuse to doe by their deniall made of the Sacrament of Confirmation The Aunswere Although I wil not contende with you on what parte of mens bodies the Apostles laide their handes yet it is boldly affirmed of you that thei laide their handes on mens heades whiche you reade not in any place of the scripture but concernyng the substance of the matter the Apostles by the ceremony of imposition of handes conferred the holy ghost that is to saie the visible graces and giftes of the holy ghost as the gifte of tongues the gift of prophecie the gifte of healyng and suche like whiche giftes as they were temporall in the Churche to beutifie the ministery of the gospell in the firste publishing therof and nowe are ceased so the ceremony by whiche thei were conferred is rightly abrogated For now the ministers by laiyng on their handes can not giue those externall graces of the holie ghoste wherefore thei ought not to vse that Ceremonie An other imposition of handes was vsed by the Apostles on those that were Baptised beyng infantes which after thei came to yeres of discretion professed their faith before the Churche to whiche thei were Baptised and so were receiued onely by imposition of handes whiche was therefore called confirmation Not that it was a Sacramente or a signe of Gods fauour suppliyng that which wāted in baptisme but that it was a testimonie of the Churches allowing of those that were so Baptised and after learned the principles of their faithe And this Ceremonie we retaine in our churche not as a Sacramēte whiche is a visible signe of an inuisible grace betwene God and vs but as an externall approbation and receiuyng of the persone in suche sorte Baptised As for your Oile and Chrisme that you occupie in your Popishe confirmation hath none institution of Christe and therefore is no Sacramente The Papiste Seuenth the order and maner was of the Primitiue churche if any man was dangerously sicke to send for the Prieste to praie for hym and oinct hym with Oyle in the name of our Lorde God whiche the reformatours of this our Englishe churche doe refuse to doe by their deniall of the Sacramente of extreme vnction The aunswere In the primitiue Churche the Elders of the Churche had the gifte of healyng and therefore when any man was sicke thei vsed to sende for the Elders of the Churche who praied for hym and anointed hym with Oile in the name of the Lorde by whiche Ceremonie it pleased GOD to restore the partie to healthe as you maie read in the v. Chapiter of sainct Iames. And in the sixte of saincte Markes Gospell wee reade that the Apostles beyng sente
abroade of Christe to preache and woorke miracles vsed by the same ceremonie to heale many that were sick But now whē the gifte of healyng continueth not in the Churche it were a verie ridiculous thyng to vse that Ceremonie And as for your extreme vnction by no meanes can be accompted that vsage of the Apostles for you anoint none almost but suche as are past hope of recouerie so farre you are frō restoring any to healthe by your beggerly ceremonie The Papiste Eight in the Primitiue churche we dooe reade in the nintinth chapiter of the actes of the Apostles how vpon a certain plague there made vpon seuen bretheren the sonnes of one Sceba by a man that was possessed with the Diuelle many of the people whiche did beleue in Iesus Christe theruppon came and made vpen confession of their sinnes and made declaration of their priuate actes and dedes whiche the reformatour of this our Englishe Churche will none of by the deniall of Sacramente of penance and all the partes therof The Aunswere It is straunge to see vnto how narrow shiftes you are driuen to make vp a number of argumentes Haue you nothing but open confession to proue your priuate and auriculer confessiōs God be thanked ther are many also in our churche that make open confession and declaration of their former life led in blindenes and superstition of their falling in time of persecutiō and other like offences but what is this to your popishe Sacramente of auricular cōfession or what likelihode hath it with the same Firste the faithfull bringyng forthe certeine examples of their actions acknowledge how they were seduced by the deuill before they embraced the faith the popes law compelleth men to reherse all their deedes wordes and thoughtes These men made their cōfession once the popes law requireth eche man to confesse euery yere once at least these came forth to this confession of their owne accorde the pope compelleth all men vppon necessitie of saluation Againe the text saieth that many came but not all the popes lawe excepteth none these Ephesians made open confessiō before al the church as you your selfe acknowledge the pope commaundeth euery man to whisper his confession into a préestes eare Let al men iudge what agrement this their confession hath with your auricular confession And wheras you saie we deny the Sacrament of penaunce and all the partes therof The truth is we preache repentance as we are commaunded by the woorde of God but no Sacrament of penance dooe wee finde in the Scripture what you meane by the partes of penance I cannot well tell but if it be those three that bee commonly sette forthe in writers of your dunsical diuinitie contrition of harte confession of mouth and satisfactiō of worke you shall here what wée thinke of theim Thei are suche as a verie limme of the Deuill maie performe and yet goe to the Deuill when he hath dooen Example in Iudas Iscarioth who hadde contrition of harte as the Scripture teacheth when he was sorie for his facte And he made confession of mouthe to the priestes when he saied I haue synned in betraiyng of innocente bloode Finally he made satisfaction of woorke when he restored the thirtie siluerlynges whiche he receiued for his treason And when he had so dooen wente and hanged hym self in despaire You see that Iudas lacked none of youre three partes of penaunce but he lacked faithe without the whiche all contrition confession and outward satisfaction is nothyng auailable And therefore you teach a verie wholsome kinde of penaunce in whiche faithe in the bloode of Christe is no parte at all Neither is it necessarely required thereto by your owne doctrine For Sacramentes you teach giue grace ex opere operato that is of the woorke wroughte so a manne dooeth not withstande the receiuyng of them whiche you call ponere obicem And therefore penaunce beyng one of your Sacramentes and absolution of sinnes maie be receiued without faithe in the merites of christ Therfore kepe your penaunce for your frendes we can not skill of suche Sacramentes The Papiste Ninth the order and maner of the Primitiue churche was to celebrate the Sacramente of christes bodie after supper as it apeareth both by the example geuen therof by our sauiour Christe and by the testimonies of the Apostle sainct Paule which they doe not obserue nor followe The aunswere You are not able to proue that any suche order was established in the primitiue Churche that the Sacrament of the bodie and bloode of Christe should bée receiued after Supper Although it was by our Sauiour institited after his laste Supper Not appoinctyng any tyme in whiche it ought of necessitie to bee receiued no more then the Sacrament of Baptisme is bounde either to Mornyng or Euenyng daie or night or to any tyme of the daie in whiche it was firste ordeined And whereas you alledge the aucthoritie of saincte Paule for your purpose you doe hym greate wronge for he reproueth the Corinthians for confoundyng drunken and prophane bankettes with the holie Sacrament of the Lordes Supper i. Cor. xj And as for the tyme place and other like circumstances perteinyng to the ministration of the Sacramentes thei are in the discretiō of the churche to appoinct as thei maie beste serue for order comelinesse and edification But ouer the substaunce of the Sacramentes the Churche hath no power as to take the cuppe from the laie people whiche none but the churche of Antichrist would presume to doe The Papiste Tenth in the Primitiue Churche it was decreed by a solemne law holden by the Apostles of Christe at Hierusalem that the christen men men shoulde absteine à sanguine suffocato from blood and all suffocate thinges whiche our reformatours performe not nor will admit any fasting from meates and drinkes at all by the whiche testimonies and proues gathered out of the diuine scriptures howe plaine a matter it is that they purpose not in their reformation to reduce vs to the Primitiue Churche of Christe when therewith besides they haue no agreaunce they doe all thinges cleane to the contrary like as ye haue partlie hearde by profes made therfore out of the diuine scriptures and shal heareafter more at large by the writinges and testimonies of the moste best learned and grauest fathers that euer were in Christes Churche The aunswere The Apostles in that Counsaile made not a perpetuall lawe to binde any mannes conscience but onely a temporall decree to auoide offence of the weake Iewes who were accustomed to abstaine from suche thinges and this decree as occasion serued was broken and altered But where you saie wee can admitte no fastyng from meates and drinkes at all You shall vnderstande that we compte it no fastyng to abstaine from one kinde of meate and to fille your beallie with an other kinde as to refraine fleshe and to glutte your stomack with fishe Or as the Maniches abstained from liuyng creatures and riotted in fruictes spices and delicate
Basile affirmeth that it was a tradition of the Apostles that who so euer did not so he shoulde be deposed therfore wheras our reformatours doe but sprincle a little water in the foreheade of the partie baptized it may be quickly espied that thei follow not the primitiue churche The aunswere Our sauiour Christ commaundeth vs to Baptise in the name of the Father and of the Soonne and of the holie Ghoste whiche whether it bée by dippyng the bodie into the water or by powryng water vpon the bodie the misticall signification of washyng is sufficiently expressed and so longe the Baptisme is right as for the nōber of dippinges is nothyng materiall We read in the scriptures diuers formes of washing The Eunuche was Baptised by Philip goyng in naked into a Riuer or Brooke And so Baptised Ihon in Iordan Other that were Baptised in their houses it is moste like that water was powred on them as Cornelius and them that were with hym And the keper of the prison with his housholde Actes xvj And as for the Ceremonie of thrise dippyng although it was vsed of many to signifie the Trinitie yet was it not generall nor of any necessitie For in the fowerth Counsaile of Toledo it was determined that all was one whether a childe were Baptized with three dippynges or with one alone And yet it was there decreed vpon a good consideration that in Spaine thei should vse but one dippyng The woordes are these in the fowerth Counsaile Toletane and the fiueth Canone Ne tamen haereticis videamur consentire qui tertio mergum dum eorum morem seruamus cautum est ne in Hispaenia fiat baptismus nisi in vna mersione that is to saie Least we should seme to agree with heretikes whiche vse to dippe thrise while wee reteine their maner of baptisyng it is decreed that no Baptisme in Spaine bee ministered but with one onely dippyng In this decree of the Coūsaile twoo thynges especially are to bee noted Firste that the three dippynges was not alwaies and in all places obserued as a necessarie matter and therefore your argumente is fallen to the grounde Secondely that it is profitable to alter and chaunge suche Ceremoeies as are vsed of heretikes that wee seme not to agree with theim in any thyng in whiche it is lawful for vs to disagree And for this consideration doe we refuse to dip thrise because we would not seme to agrée with you whiche are heretikes although wee acknowledge that of it self it is a thyng indifferente to dippe twise or thrise or ones or not at al to dip but onely to poure on water in signe of that spirituall ablution whiche is represented by that Sacramente of Baptisme Wherefore you haue a verie quicke sight that can espie a knotte in a Rushe and of so small a gnat to make so great an Elephante as though all Christianitie stoode in thrise dippyng of a child in Baptisme whiche I haue proued not onely not to haue been alwaies obserued but also by decree of a Counsaill to haue been expressely forbidden Which Ceremonie although it bee noumbred emong the canons commonly called of the Apostles yet hath he a meane iudgement in antiquitie that can not descerne theim from Apostolike writynges But because you bryng in the Tradition of the Apostles you muste nedes giue me leaue to presse you with the same aucthoritie and to shewe that you your self obserue not the Traditions of the Apostles In the vj. Canon of the Apostles it is commaunded that no Bishoppe Prieste nor Deacon shall put awaie his wife vnder colour of religion and thei that doe so shall be excomunicate And in the ninthe and tenthe Canons it is decreed that whosoeuer is presente at the Communion and dooeth not communicate that he should bee excommunicate How these Canons of the Apostles if you will needes haue them so called be obserued in your Popishe Clergie and your priuate Masse what nede I to rehearse And yet you agree with the primitiue Churche in all thynges and we haue none agreaunce therewith at all The Papiste Thirde in the Primitiue churche they vsed Oyle and Chrisma in the ministratiō of diuers Sacramentes which christ hymselfe did ordaine and sainctifie the night before his passion as witnesseth S. Cypriane And his Apostles did commende the same vnto the Churche by their traditions as witnesseth sainct Basile and S. Augustine whiche these our reformatours will none of The aunswere In the Primitiue Churche there was not so many diuerse Sacramentes as you speake of but onely the Sacramente of Baptisme and of the bodie and bloode of christe and in neither of these was there any institution or vsage of oile chrisme And although in the later tyme ceremonies increased that oyle was vsed in baptisme yet was there not so many Sacramentes for Augustine saieth vnto Ianuaerius Epis. 118. Vnde Sacramentis numero paucissimis obseruatione facillimis significatione praestantissimis ▪ societatem noui populi colligauit sicut est Baptismus Trinitatis nomine consecratus communicatio corporis Christi sanguinis ipsius si quid aliud in scripturis canonicis cōmendatur Wherfore saieth Augustine God hath bounde the societie of his newe people with Sacramentes in number fewest in obseruation easiest in significatiō most excellent as is baptisme consecrated in the name of the Trinitie the communion of the bodie and blood of Christe and if any thing els be commended in the Canonicall scriptures The same Augustine and Chrisostome also vpon the water and blood that issued out of Christes side do gather that the Sacramentes of the church flowed out of his side namely Baptisme and the Supper of the lord Aug. Hom. in Ioann 20. Chrysostom ad Neophytos Augustine also in the thirde booke de doctrina christiana Cap. 9. rehearseth but these twoo Sacramentes speakyng of those that are properly called Sacramentes for otherwise both he and other auncient writers extende the name of Sacrament to al ceremonies And yet Gregorie accompteth washyng of feete to be a Sacramente as Baptisme and the Supper whiche is no sacramente with you And as for the ceremonie of annointyng in baptisme it is as lawfull for vs to abrogate as for you to omitte the drinke of milke and Honie after baptisme other such ceremonies which you knowe were vsed as well as oyle and Chrisme But our Sauiour Christe the night before his Passion did ordeine and sanctifie Oyle and Chrisme for suche purposes I meruaile what Cipriane dare be so bolde to affirme it séeyng the Euangelistes make no mention thereof and here againe if you hadde noted the place of Cipriane wee might better haue considered of his aucthoritie Diuerse writinges are set forth in his name whiche were neuer any of his workes The Papiste Fowerth S. Basile saieth that all determiminations and instructions which are preached and kepte in the Primitiue churche of Christe we haue receiued theim partely of the scriptures and partly by the traditions of the Apostles whiche both hath
like force and strength vnto godlynes As for example the instructions which thei haue that trust in the name of Iesus Christe to signe them selues with the signe of Christes crosse to praie towardes the Easte to vse wordes of inuocation at the shewing of the Breade and the Cuppe in the holy Euchariste to blesse the water of the Fonte the Oyle of the holy vnction and that he also which is baptized should be thrise dipped in the water and suche other like thinges whiche are taught and obserued in the Sacramente of Baptisme as to renounce the Deuill and his angels salte spitle and the exorcisme there made to the expulsion of the deuill All these thinges and other like whiche are tought and obserued in christes churche we haue theim saieth sainct Basile ether of the scriptures or els by the tradition of the Apostles whiche are of like force and strēgth vnto pietie and godlynes wheras the reformatours of this English church do esteme and iudge al the premises for impietie and vngodlines The aunswere In this your fowerth argumente if it maie bee called an argumente you huddle vp a number of Ceremonies together all whiche out of Basile you would proue to bee Traditions of the Apostles In deede Basile in the. xxvij Chapiter of his booke De spiritu sancto is driuē to this shifte that either he must acknowledge many suche vnfruictfull Ceremonies as in his tyme were crepte into the churche to be vnprofitable or els to flie to the tradition of vnwritten verities The same in effecte ceaceth Augustine and yet neither of bothe was so ignoraunte but that at suche time as thei did throughly consider either the dignitie of the holie scriptures or the natures of suche humaine Traditions thei iudged otherwise of the whole matter For Basile in his moralles Diffinit xxvi saieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that it behoueth euery woorde and deede to bee aucthorised by the testimonie of the scripture inspired of God bothe for the certaine perswasion of the good and the confusion of the euill And in the 8. diffini 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If all that is not of faith is synne as the Apostle saieth and faithe is of hearyng and hearyng by the woorde of God what so euer is beside the diuine scripture beyng not of faithe is synne Vpon whiche conclusion a manne maie inferre that all suche Traditions as Basile before defended beyng beside the scriptures ar sinne The same Basile in his brief diffinitions to this question whether it be profitable for theim that come newlie to the faithe immediately to bee instructed out of the scriptures Maketh this aunswere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It is bothe conueniente and necessarie that euery manne far his necessarie vse should learne out of the diuine scriptures bothe that he maie bee certainely perswaded in his Religion and also that he bee not before accustomed to humaine Traditions Let this therfore suffice for sainct Basile to aunswere hymself Saincte Augustine also in his 118. Epistle where he speaketh moste fauourably for Traditions hath these woordes Sed hoc nimis doleo quod multa quae in diuinis libris saluberrimè praecepta sunt minus curantur tam multis praesumptionibus sic plena sint omnia vt grauius corripiatur qui per octauas suas terram nudo pede tetigerit quam qui mētem vinolentia sipelire est But this saieth Augustine dooeth greue me to muche that many thinges whiche in Gods boke are moste wholsemly commaunded are lesse regarded and all thynges are so full of presumptions that he is more sharpely reproued whiche hath touched the yearth with his bare foote in tyme of his vtas then he that hath buried his mynde with dronkennes And in the same place he saieth of Traditions Quamuis enim neque hoc inueniri possit quomodo contra fidem sint ipsam tamen religionem quam paucissimis manifestissimis celebrationum Sacramentis misericordia dei esse liberam voluit seruilibus oneribus premunt vt tolerabilior sit conditio Iudaeorum qui etiam si tempus libertatis non agnouerint legalibus tamen sarcinis nō humanis praesumptionibus subijciuntur that is to saie For although this can not bee founde how thei are contrary to the faithe yet thei oppresse with sclauishe burdeins the religion it self whiche the mercie of God would haue to bée free with moste fewe and manifeste Sacramentes of celebrations So that the state of the Iewes is more tollerable then ours for although thei haue not acknowledged the tyme of libertie yet thei are subiecte to burthens laied on theim by the lawe not to humaine presumptions By this you see Augustines right iudgemente of suche vnprofitable Ceremonies and Traditions Whiche althoughe Basile and he cōiecture and gesse to haue béen receiued of the Apostles because thei knewe none other originall of theim yet it dooeth not followe that thei were deliuered by the Apostles in deede For many of theim if your owne aucthours dooe not lye were instituted by diuers Popes of Rome long after the age of the Apostles And some it is plaine were inuented by heretikes For the firste that we read of in any auncient and authenticall writer that hadde in reuerence the signe of the Crosse were the Valentiniane heretikes as witnesseth Irenaeus libri primi Capit. 1. whiche thei called Oron crucem confirmatiuam the strengthenyng Crosse. And abused the testimonies of sainct Paule as you Papistes doe where he saieth verbum crucis c. The woorde or preachyng of the crosse mihi non eueniat gloriari c. God forbidde that I should reioyce but in the Crosse of Christe But afterwarde true Christians vsed that signe to testifie vnto Heathen menne that thei were Christians and were not ashamed of the ignominious death of Christ whiche the Gētiles did dispightfully caste in their teeth and at length it grewe to a meare superstition and laste of all to moste horrible Idolatrie when the Image of the Crosse was worshipped sensed and praied vnto Praier towarde the Easte was vsed of the Christians in the aunciente Church to testifie that thei differed from the Iewes who praied towarde the West least thei should seem to worshippe the Sunne risyng as the Gentiles did And although woordes of inuocation were vsed at the shewyng of the bread and the Cuppe yet was there no inuocation of the Sacramentall breade and Cuppe but of God. Of the other Ceremonies of anoinctyng and thrise dipping hath been spoken before That the Apostles vsed no suche blessyng of the water of Baptisme as you doe it is manifeste when thei Baptised in euery Riuer and Brooke that thei came to In dedè thei did cōsecrate the water for that time when they vsed it to serue for the holy vse but did putte no holines into it which should remain after that baptisme was ministred with it as you doe As for the stipulatiō of renouncyng the deuill c. is in dede the doctrine of
exhorteth them to breake it But suche as are not able to performe honestly that whiche thei haue vowed rashely we teach accordyng to the doctrine of sainct Paule that it is better for them repentyng of their rashe vowes to marie then to burne in concupiscens then to committe fornication and vncleanes And this we doe not without the consent of olde writers as partly I haue shewed and more coulde shewe if neede required The Papiste Seuenth in the primitiue churche Images of Christe his Crosse and of his sainctes were vsed as in Cęsarea was the Image of Christ sette vppe by the woman whiche Christe cured of the fluxe of blood as witnesseth Eusebius and Basilius magnus and the generall Counsell holden at Nice of three hundred and tenne Bishoppes doeth constantly affirme and vouche that the Image of Christe and of his Sanctes in the churche were of the tradition of the Apostles And saincte Gregorie Nyssen doeth write howe he did beholde the Image of Christes passion and that oftentymes not without teares and weapyng Chrisostome saieth that he that dooeth any iniurie or valiny to the Image of Caesar he doth cōmitte the same against Caesar hymselfe S. Beade writeth how sainct Aug. entered into this Realme with a Crosse of Siluer and an Image of Christe painted in a table in procession wise singyng the Letanie to whiche notwithstandyng what violence and dishonour hath been doen by our reformatours herein this Realme to the Image of our sauiour Christ and of his sainctes it is not vnknowen The Aunswere It is a proper Primitiue Churche whiche you alledge of the seconde Counsaile of Nice whiche was seuen hundred eightie and one yeres after Christe holden by a multitude of Idolatrous flatteryng and vnlearned Prelates whiche to feede the humor of that wicked Empresse Irene were gathered together not in the name of Christ but against Christ whose expresse commaundemente thei did impugne And with suche leude and vnsensible reasons and wrestynges of the scriptures that if a manne of purpose to mocke the Idolaters woud inuente argumentes to laugh at hee coulde not diuise more ridiculous matters God made manne after his owne Image ergo wee muste make Images God is meruailous in his sainctes ergo we must make Images Theodofius of Amorie reasoneth whatsoeuer is written is written for our learnyng ergo wee must haue Images to teache vs No manne lighteth a candell and putteth it vnder a Bushell ergo Images must bee sette on the Alters with a hundreth suche substanciall proofes And to make the matter mooste manifeste Theodorus bishop of Myre proueth that Images must be worshiped by his Archedeacons dreames and so dooeth other by dreames and miracles and at laste Tharasius Archebishoppe of Constantinople with the whole Synode concludeth that Angelles haue bodies and mennes soules also be bodily and therefore thei maie bee paincted Againste this Idolatrous vnlearned and blasphemous Counsaile Carolus Magnus wrote a booke whiche is extante in whiche he confuteth the grosse heresie of adoration of Images As for the primatiue churche of Christ regardyng the seconde commaundement of God did make no kinde of Images to bee had in any vse of religion but vtterly forbad them As for the Image of Christ whereof Eusebius speaketh if it were true was onely a monumente of the historie sette vp in the streate in remembraunce of the miracle not in the churche to bee had in veneration or worshipped Neither was there any Image receiued into the Churche for three hundreth yeres after Christe The Epistle of Epiphanius translated by saincte Hierome is a notable testimonie Cum venissem ad villam quae dicitur Anablatha vidissemque ibi praeteriens lucernam c. When I came to a village whiche is called Anablatha and sawe there as I passed by a candell burnyng and inquiryng what place it was and vnderstandyng that it was a Churche I entered in to praie and founde there a vaile or linnen clothe hangyng at the doore of the saied churche stained and painted and hauyng an Image as it were of Christ or of some saincte For I dooe not well remember whose Image it was Therefore when I sawe this thing that the Image of a man was hanged vp in the Churche contrary to the aucthoritie of the Scriptures I did rende it in péeces and gaue counsaile to the kepers of that place rather to wrappe it about some poore bodie that was deade to burie hym with all Contrariwise thei murmured and saied If he would néedes rende it it were reason he should giue vs an other vaile for it and so chaunge it Whiche thing when I heard I promised that I would giue theim one aad sende it shortlie There passed not long tyme but that I sought to sende theim a verie good vaile for it For I thought that one shoulde haue been sente me out of Cypres And nowe I haue sente suche a one as I could gette And I praie you to commaunde the Elders of that place to receiue that Vaile of this bearer whiche is sente by vs And to giue theim charge that hereafter in the Churche of Christe suche vailes bee not hanged vp whiche are contrary to our Religion This writeth Epiphanius to Ihon bishoppe of Hierusalem by whiche it is euidente what was thought of Images at that tyme when a painted vaile might not bée hanged before a Churche doore to keepe out the winde or for some suche purpose and not in any respect of religion or worshipping The same Epiphanius emong the heresies of Carpocrates rehearseth that he made priuilie the Image of Iesu Paule Homer and Pithagoras and worshipped them Also he inueigheth sharply against the Antidicomarians and Collyridians for vsyng and worshippyng the Image of Marie the Virgine As for your testimonies out of Gregorie Nyssene and Chrysostome serue nothyng to the purpose for Gregorie speaketh not of the historie of Christes passion as you vntruely report but of the oblation of Isaac by his father Abraham Conc. Nicen. 2. actione iiij But this picture was in some priuate place not in the Churche and place of worshippyng And Chrysostome in his saiyng concludeth not that therefore we must haue Images of GOD and of Christe in the Churche but he that doeth iniurie to any manne that is made after the Image of god or disobeieth a Magistrate which representeth the persone of god c. He doth iniurie to god For he that maketh any Image of God doeth God greate iniurie transformyng the glorie of the inuisible GOD into the shape of any corruptible creature Rom. j. But what Chrysostome and diuers other godlie fathers thought of the vse of Images in the churche is exdressed in the counsaile of Ephesus which condemned Images before the Counsaile of Nice whiche restored theim And the Counsaile Elibertinum fower hundreth yeres before that vnder Constantine the greate made this decree Capt. xxxvi Placuit picturas in ecclesia esse non debere ne quod colitur aut adoratur in parietibus depingatur That is It is thought
good that pictures ought not to bée in the Churche leaste that thyng whiche is worshipped and honoured should bee painted on the walles To conclude that whiche you alledge out of Beda concernyng Dan Augustine the Monke I will aunswere by the aucthoritie of sainct Augustine the Bishoppe who in his boke De consensu Euāgelistarum libr. i. Capit. 10. Speakyng of certaine Heathen aduersaries whiche noumbred Paule emong the twelue Apostles that were with Christe while he liued writeth in these woordes Credo quod pluribus locis simul eos cum illo pictos viderunt quià merita Petri Pauli etiam propter eundem passionis diem celebrius solemniter Roma commendat Sic omnino errare meruerunt qui Christum Apostolos eius non in sanctis codicibus sed in pictis parietibus quaesierunt I beleue that in many places thei sawe theim painted together with hym because the Citie of Rome commendeth the worthinesse of Peter and Paule more notably and solemnely because of the same daie of their sufferyng So altogether thei were worthie to bée deceiued whiche sought Christ and his Apostles not in the holie scriptures but in painted walles And so all thei that followed your Augustines superstitions were iustely blinded and deceiued because thei sought not Christ in the scriptures but in painted Tables whiche is the punishemente due for Idolatrie as sainct Paule testifieth Roma j. The Papiste Eight in the primatiue church the maner of fastyng was merueilous streight in so much that Faustus Manicheus 1300. yeres agoe did taxe the christiane men that they should in tyme of Lente absteine from all meate that is spoken of by the Apostle S. Paule in the first to Timothy the fowerth Chapiter And did blaspheme the doyng and teachyng of Christes churche to be doctrinam daemoniorum But Ierome vpon the same place doth make answere like as sainct Augustine in manie places that the church in their fasting to absteine from meate not therby to condemne any kynde of meate as Manichaeus did but for penance and to subdue the carnall concupiscens and suche other like good purposes ▪ And farther for the streight fasting in the primitiue Churche S. Iheronime writeth ad Nepotianum Epiphanius in Anchorato whiche is nowe thought of these reformatours to be superfluous and folishe and therfore they mind not to reduce and bring vs to the order of the primitiue churche The aunswere Concernyng Fastyng I haue spoken sufficiently in aunswere of your tenth argumente out of the scriptures where you make mention of fastyng also Euseb. lib. v. Capit. xviij Testifieth that Montanus the heretike was the firste that prescribed lawes of fastyng whom you followe altogether And especially the heretikes call Archontici of whom Epiphanius writeth lib. i. Tom. iij. Here. 40. whiche pretended fastyng but obserued none in deede and the Manichees of whom S. Augustine testifieth that vnder colour of abstinence thei refrained from eatyng of any liuyng thyng and from drinkyng wine yet did thei glutte and pamper theim selues with delicate frutes and spices with drinke made of the iuice of Dates c. such was your Popishe faste on Fridaies at Dinner to eate no fleshe but as muche fishe as the beallie would holde with good store of wine at night to eate no liuyng creatures but Figges Reasons Almondes Wardens and Quinces baked Suckette and Marmelade and other fruites conserued with good wine or Hipocras to helpe digestion This was a straight kind of faste yet this was Catholicke enough so long as greate Prelates vsed it The Papispte Ninth in the primitiue churche they vsed praier for the soules departed whiche was the tradition of the Apostles as witnesseth Dyonysius Areopagita de caelesti Hierarchia Cap. 7. Epiphanius Chrisostom in 1. ad Cor. Hom. 41. in Math. 33. Hō 69. ad populum Antiochenum whiche thinge is proued also by the Scriptures affirmed of all auncient writers and hath alwaies been continued in Christes Churche and now denied and taken awaie by oure reformatours and therefore they minde no to reduce vs to the primitiue churche The aunswere I must needes confesse that praier for the deade is one of the oldeste heresies that the Papistes doe maintaine and yet hath it no aucthoritie of Gods worde nor of the primitiue Churche for twoo hundreth yeres after Christe Thei vsed in deede to make mention of theim at the celebration of the Communion and to giue God thankes for them whiche some tyme is called a Sacrifice offered for thē as of Cypriane Lib. iiii Epist. v. Speaking of Martyres of whom none doubteth but thei were in heauen and neded no praiers to bee made for them Sacrificia pro eis semper vt meministis offerimus quoties martyrum passiones dies anniuersaria commemoratione celebramus That is Wee offer Sacrifice for theim alwaies as you remember so often as wee celebrate the passion or dayes of the Martyres by yerely commemoration But this vnproper kinde of speakyng and bolde attemptes without scripture to name the deade in the Communion did bréede in the posteritie many errours as praier for the deade the Sacrifice of the Masse for the deade Purgatorie and suche other But in this nineth argumente you bewraie your fraudulent dealing in the other for here you note the places of the doctours whiche you knowe no manne will denie and in other places where you affirme that none of vs will graunte you alledge their names onely without quotyng the places The Papiste Tenth in the Primitiue churche christen men were taught to arme them selues with the signe of the Crosse whiche consignatiō of the Crosse was vsed in the administration of the Sacramentes and that of necessitie as sainct Augustine saieth wordes also of inuocation before the consecration of the Sacrament of the Aulter were vsed in the primitiue churche like as the sanctifiyng of the Fonte the blessyng also of the Chrisme and Oyle to annoincte the partie baptized all which thinges were of the traditions of the Apostles as witnesseth Basili sainct Cyprian sainct Augustine Damas and many other ▪ whiche thinges beeyng now vtterly abolished by the newe reformatours they purpose not to bring vs to the order of the Primitiue churche Seeyng therefore it can not bee denied by so many testimonies gathered out of the diuine Scriptures and holy fathers that they agree not with the primitiue churche of christe but doe dissent and are cleane gone from it in so many diuerse poinctes as I haue expressed Therefore this their reformation to reduce vs to the primitiue churche is onely pretended of their partes and shall neuer be proued The aunswere You leape to and fro backwarde and forwarde more like to one that daunseth then that disputeth Haue wée not hearde enough before of crossyng and blessyng of Oile and Chrisme But thei must now be repeated againe whiche if thei were graunted to you and vsed of vs as thei were in tyme of those doctours whose names you recite what had you gained ther by It
vniuersally and haue been alwaies vsed in the Churche Secondely that thei bee not contrary to the doctrine of the Apostles conteined in the holie scriptures for then it is moste certaine thei are no Traditions of the Apostles for thei did not deliuer one thyng in writyng and a contrary thyng in Tradition Thirdly that whatsoeuer Tradition of the Apostles is not conteined in the scriptures although wee knewe it came from the Apostles it is lawfull vpon good consideration to alter it For seyng that all necessarie matters are conteigned in the scriptures whatsouer thei deliuered whiche is not conteined in the scriptures was but temporall might be chaunged aswell as the decree De sanguine et suffocato of blood strangled And that we ought not to receiue whatsoeuer is commended to vs as a Traditiō of the Apostles maie appere by these exāples Irenaeus was a manne that liued nere to the age of the Apostles for he sawe as he hymself doeth testifie Polycarpus the disciple of sainct Ihon. And he declareth that it was a Tradition commonly receiued in Asia as of sainct Ihon the Apostle and of other of the Apostles that our sauiour Christe liued fiftie yeres whiche is contrary to the truthe of the Gospell Irenaeus libri 2. Cap. xxxv If suche a fable could bee credited for an Apostolike Tradition so sone after the Apostles departure what maie bee iudged of those that in two hundreth three hundreth fiue hundreth sixe hundreth eight hundreth yeres after the Apostles were not heard of but sodainlie were sette out in the worlde as Traditions of the Apostles Eusebius also reporteth libri v. Cap. xviii that it was alledged as a Traditiō of the Apostles that Christ commaunded theim not to departe from Hierusalem twelue yeres after his ascension whiche is manifestly contrary to the the historie of the Actes of the Apostles Tertuliane after he was fallen into the errour of the Montanistes voucheth the Tradition of the Apostles against the Catholikes whom he calleth Psychicos that is animales naturall men and not spirituall Ieronime in Euangel Math. libr. 4. Cap. xxv declareth that it was a Tradition emong the Iewes that Christ should come at midnight whervpon he gathereth that the Tradition of the Apostles was deriued that on Easter eue the people should not depart out of the churche before midnight but tary there for the commyng of christ A likely matter that the Apostles would make a Tradition of the erroure of the Iewes The same Ieronyme vpon the firste Chapiter of Agge saieth verie well of the Apostolicall Traditions Sed alia quae absque auctoritate testimonijs scripturarum quasi Apostolica traditione sponte reperiunt atque confingunt percutit gladius dei But other thinges also speakyng of heretikes whiche thei finde out and feigne of them selues without the aucthoritie and testimonies of the scriptures as it were by Tradition of the Apostles the sworde of God dooeth strike By these examples and testimonies it is manifeste that wée must not by and by receiue what soeuer is saied to be a Tradition of the Apostles The Papiste Fowerth saincte Augustine in his thirde Epistle ad Ianuarium in speakyng of these thinges whiche in diuerse partes are obserued in christes Churche diuersely he geueth that certeine and sure rule that if thei be not against the professed faieth of christes churche nor against the good liuyng and maners of men but haue in theim some maner of encouragement of a better life wheresoeuer saieth he we dooe knowe anie such thing diuersely to be vsed we shal not only not disalow theim but also folow thē with praise and innouation of life So that the infirmitie and weakenes of some men be not let therunto when otherwise if more profette maie come therby vnto the good then hurte vnto the weake offended therby sine dubitatione faciēda sunt without doubte saieth he al suche although thei be diuerse and in diuerse places diuersely obserued yet they ought to be continued and kepte The aunswere Wée agree with sainct Augustine that suche Ceremonies as are instituted for order and comelinesse sake beyng diuers in diuerse churches if thei be not contrary to the Scriptures are to bée obserued of suche as remaine in those Churches And what this should make either for you or againste vs I dooe not sée at all For your Ceremonies are voide of edifiyng vnorderly vndecent for the churche of Christ and then the opinion of merite and satisfaction that you ioigne vnto them beyng contrary to the Christian faithe and the aucthoritie of the Scriptures maketh thē to be vtterly abhominable Furthermore when you make them essentiall partes of the religion and worshippe of GOD our sauiour Christe hym self out of the Prophete Esaie doeth vtterly condemne thē For GOD will not be worshipped with the doctrine Traditions and preceptes of menne Matth. xv Thus neither your ten reasōs out of the scriptures nor your ten argumentes out of the doctours nor your fower bulwarkes out of S. Augustine are able to defende your Popishe churche from ouerthrowe whiche if she take vpon her to encounter with the truthe muste needes bée discomfited and come to vtter destruction The Papiste Besides that this refourmed Englishe churche hath no agreaunce with the catholike churche of christe the religion thereof doeth onely stande of negatiues like as it shall appeare in the processe followyng The aunswere Besides that your Rhetorike in railyng on our Churche is verie vnreasonable your Sophistrie it self in quarellyng againste vs is voide of sufficient subtiltie not onely to defende it self but at leaste wise to hide it self For what impudente kinde of arguing call you this by enumeration of a fewe particulers to conclude any vniuersall proposition These newe reformators deny twentie thynges whiche the Papistes affirme ergo their religion standeth onely of negatiues Maie not I likewise reason the Papistes denie fourtie thynges that the Protestauntes affirme Ergo the Religion of Papistes standeth onely vpon negatiues Furthermore whē euery affirmatiue proposition implieth a negation of his contradictorie and euery negatiue propositiō importeth an affirmation of his contradictorie you maie as well saie that it standeth altogether vpon affirmatiues as you dooe vpon negatiues Like as in the tenne commaūdementes of GOD onely twoo are affirmatiue and eight are negatiue wherein all the duetie of a Christian manne consisteth you might reason that Gods commaundementes stande almoste all of negatiues as though God did onely tell vs what we should not doe and did not teach vs what wée should dooe like as you conclude afterward vpō the sale of Clare the Butchers horse but that right reason telleth vs that the prohibitiue Commaūdementes are also preceptiue and the preceptiue commaundementes are also prohibitiue for he whiche forbiddeth adulteterie commaundeth a chaste life and he whiche commaundeth to honour our parentes forbiddeth vs to disobey the same But because faithe whiche is the foundation of religion is an affirmation of those thinges whiche are beleued
nothyng to dooe with a Sacrifice by those woordes it is easie to proue that you can offer vp no Sacrifice in the celebration of the Sacramente For by this woorde of Christe dooe this you can dooe no more but that whiche Christe then did But Christe did then offer no Sacrifice of his bodie therefore you can offer no Sacrifice of his bodie That Christe did then offer no Sacrifice of his bodie is manifeste by the Apostle to the Hebrues whiche often tymes testifieth that he offered hym self but ones whiche was on the Crosse Chapit vij ix x. therefore he did not offer hym self on the table at his supper as you moste falsely surmise The Papiste Fifte it dooeth denie the Sacramentes of christes churche The aunswere Wee receiue the Sacramente of Baptisme and of the Lordes Supper which onely wee finde in the scripture the other fiue whiche you call Sacramentes because we finde theim not in the scripture instituted of Christe in the nature of Sacramentes we dooe not receiue theim as Sacramentes Matrimonie Confirmation election of Ecclesiasticall ministers with their aucthoritie as wee finde theim by the woorde of God so wee retaine the pure institution of theim refusyng the corruption and superstition builded vpon them by Antichriste Extreme vnction is an idle Ceremonie and nothyng pertainyng to our tyme as I haue declared before for that cause is iustely abrogated The Papiste Sixte it doth denie the real presence of christes bodie and blood in the holy Eucharist The aunswere Wée dooe not denie the reall presence of Christes bodie to the faithe of him that receiueth worthely But the carnall and grosse immagination of transubstanciation whiche is contrary to the scriptures whiche teacheth that the bodie of christe is like vnto our bodies in all thynges synne excepted and therefore can not bee in diuerse places at one tyme and is also contrary to the doctrine openly taught in the Churche for seuen or eight hundreth yeres after Christe For Bertramus did write his treatise as some thinke to Carolus Caluus whiche liued eight hundreth yeres after Christe The Papiste Seuenth it dooeth denie that Christes Churche is visible or possible heare to bee knowen The aunswere We denie that the Churche of Christ is visible to the worlde at all tymes because our sauiour Christ prophecieth that the moste parte of the worlde should bee deceiued by false Prophetes Math. xxiiij and S. Paule prophesieth of the generall apostasie that should bee made by Antichriste Sainct Ihon also in the Reuelation sheweth that the Churche should flie into the wildernesse and all the worlde should worshippe Antichriste Apoca. xij and. xiij Wherefore the Churche is not alwaies in sight of the worlde although it bee sometyme deliuered from suche extreme persecution as it is God bee thanked at this tyme. The Papiste Eight it doeth denie the free choise and will of man. The aunswere Wée affirme that Adam by his falle loste the fredome of his will bothe in him self and from his posteritie So that a mā hath nowe no freedome of will so muche as to thinke a good thoughte ij Corin. iij. much lesse to do we any good of our selues Whiche seeyng it is the iuste iudgemente of God vpon Adam and his posteritie for synne we make not God aucthour of euil as prophane dogges doe barke against vs or rather against God but iuste in all his iudgementes and holie in all his waies But of free wille I shall haue occasion to speake more hereafter toward the latter ende of your discourse The Papiste Ninth it dooeth denie our iustification by penance by Baptisme by hope by charitie and good workes The aunswere Wée affirme with saincte Paule that a manne is iustified before God by faithe without the deedes of the lawe Rom. iij. not that deade faithe whiche saincte Iames speaketh of but a liuely and fruictefull faithe that woorketh by loue But of iustification I muste speake more hereafter The Papiste Tenth it dooeth denie the merites of all good workes Gods promises made to the contrarie notwithstandyng The aunswere Wee affirme that all good woorkes shall be rewarded by God for his promise sake but neither for worthines of them nor for the worthines of vs For the worthinesse of theim deserueth nothyng because thei are vnperfecte And our worthinesse in doyng theim dooeth merite nothyng because thei proceade of God and not of vs and secondly because our synnes are many more in noumber then our good deedes And when we haue dooen all that wee are bidden wee are vnprofitable seruauntes Luke the. xvij therefore wee deserue nothyng by theim but that GOD of his infinite mercie vouchsaueth for his promise sake in Christe to accepte them and reward them The Papiste Eleuenth it doeth denie fastyng from any one kinde of meate more then an other or vpon this daie more then an other The aunswere To teache men to abstaine from meates and marriage is the doctrine of Deuilles j. Timo. iiij Otherwise true faste we deny not but affirme and commende as hath been declared ones or twise before The Papiste Twelft it doeth denie tyme and daies of watches and praiers The aunswere We deny the superstitious obseruation of daies and tymes but wee affirme allowe and vse certaine daies and tymes appoicted for praier and godlie exercises By watches if you meane your vigiles of sainctes daies you your selues vse onely the name and not the obseruatiō of those watches Whiche although thei were vsed of olde in the Churche yet for diuers inconueniences thei were lefte of and by decree of the Counsaile Elibertinū abrogated Can. 35. The Papiste Thirtene it doeth denie the obseruation of holy and solemne promises and vowes made vnto God. The aunswere We doe not denie the obseruations of any lawfull promises made vnto GOD that are possible to bee kepte of those that make theim But wee teache menne not to bee rashe in makyng promises before thei bee sure that thei are able to performe them And if thei haue made a rash or vnaduised vowe as to abstaine from Marriage whiche thei are not able to obserue but by committyng fornication and vncleannesse wee counsaile theim to repente of their rashenesse and to retourne to the ordinaunce of GOD whiche is the remeadie of incontinence rather then to leade an abhominable life in filthinesse The Papiste Fowertene it dooeth denie the chaste life apertainyng to the order of Priesthode The aunswere We affirme that chaste life appertaineth to all menne and especially to Ecclesiasticall ministers But we do not compt marriage an vnchaste life as you doe but holie and honourable in all menne and the marriage bedde to be vndefiled Hebr. xiij And seeyng that the holie ghoste by sainct Paule in his Epistles to Timothe and Titus describyng the beste qualities required in Bishoppes and Deacons allowed marriage wee dare not presume to disalowe it or to forbidde any man from it leaste wee should teache the doctrine of Deuilles as you doe The Papiste Fiftene ie doth deny the inuocation and