chaunceloure for denyeng of the sacrament and for faulte of a better I was assygned to the examynacion of him in the galery And after longe reasonyng and disputaciō I declared and sayde that the sacrament beyng rightly vsed and accordinge to scripture doth after the word spoken by the prest chaunge the substaunce of the bred and wyne in to the body and bloud of Christ Were not these my wordes sayde he Yee sayde M. pope Thē beare me witnesse said he that I erre not in the sacramēt Standishe Allthoughe you did not denie that sacrament yet haue you et cet Couerdale Ye call it slaunderous raylinge whan a man with gods worde both ernestly rebuke such horryble abuses as Antichrist and his malignaunt church hath brought in among Christen people So lothe are ye to consent vnto gods worde or to vse anie thing according to his holy instituciō What could it then haue helped you yf he had opened his minde farther seing that in his so godly and honest request ye ascribe naughtynesse vnto him He did but shew that he wold haue the sacrament rightly vsed and acording to holy scripture and ye are not content with him Yet well worth the Corinthians for though they were fallen in to abuse aboute this holy misterie and aboute other thinges we read not that they spurned against the holy goost as you do whan they were called to refourmacion Standish Se also I praye you how he saieth et cetera Couerdale Yf you shulde saye that for lack of a better ye dyd write agaynst this protestacion of D. Barnes wolde ye therfore be iudged to thynke that there were not many better lerned men in England to take such a matter in hande then you Barnes THen sayde he haue ye anye thing els to saye There was one then asked him his opynion of prayeng to sayntes Then sayd he Now of saintes you shall heare myne opynion I haue sayd before somwhat I thynke of them how that I beleue they are in heauē and with god and that they are worthy of all the honour that scripture willeth them to haue But I saye through out al scripture we are not commaunded to pray to any sayntes therfore I can not ner will not preach to you that sayntes ought to be praied vnto For then shuld I preach you a doctryne of myne owne head Standish Ther is an olde heresie that saieth sayntes be not yet in heauen et cet Couerdale Is this your next waye to confute him that saieth we are not cōmaunded in scripture to praie to anye saintes Ye brawll with the deed man that saieth nothinge against you in this article of saintes being in heauen Standishe How can it be in scripture thou impudent heretike the prayer vnto saintes Couerdale Be good to the poore man and take not the matter so whote He goeth not aboute to proue that your prayeng to sayntes is grounded in scripture Standish As for in the tyme of the olde lawe et cet Couerdale The doctrine of god is that Christ is the lambe which hath bene slayne sens the begynnyng of the worlde that is euen he whose power and deliueraunce hath clensed and saued all thē that euer put their trust in him Christ Iesus yesterdaie and todaie and the same contynueth for euer Standish Therfore concerning praieng to saintes et cet Couerdale Must we beleue the testimony of men without it be grounded on gods worde Are ye become such an Apostle Because the church and congregacion of Christ must discerne iudge trie and examen all maner of doctryne and so to eschue the euell and kepe the good hath it therfore auctorite to make anye new article or to receaue a doctryne contrary to gods worde Because Christ hath promised his holy sprete of trueth to be allwaye in his faithfull congregacion shall they therfore make ordeyne set vp or beleue ought that is contrary to his owne teachinge Standish Doest thou set nomore by the auctorite of it then so in asmuch as S. Augustyne sayde Non crederem Euangelio nisi crederim Ecclesie et cet Couerdale Euen as ye peruerte the wordes of holy scripture so do ye with S. Augustine As ye choppe and chaunge with it so do ye with him And as ye alledge the scripture for another purpose then the plaine circumstaunce of the text meaneth so do ye here with this holy doctoure For youre purpose is with S. Augustines wordes to proue that youre church by her auctorite may make new articles and that we are bounde to beleue as she beleueth though the same be not grounded in scripture But yf men diligently marke S. Augustynes sayeng the occasion of his wryting and the circumstaunce therof it shall be euydent that ye are as like him in vnderstondinge as the moone is like a grene chese S. Augustyne perceauynge the greate hurte that was growyng thorow the doctryne of wicked Manicheus toke in hande to confute him and his secte his errours were so noisome and deuelish For he had not onely fayned a new gospell of his owne and named himselfe Christes Apostle but also mainteined the heresie which the Anabaptistes lately helde that the sonne of god toke not the nature of man of the blessed virgin and denied rulers to beare office denied mariage denied certayne kyndes of meates to be of god or to be graunted vnto Christen men Taught also that some mens soules dye with the bodyes despysed the exterior worde of god and mynistracion therof and sought other visions without it And many other fond and wicked opynions had he vnknowne to the holy church and flock of Christ Now for the refelling of such pestilent doctryne S. Augustine among other thinges wrote one speciall boke agaynst a certayne Epistle of the Manichees which was called Epistola fundamenti and whan he had shewed the occasions which moued him to abyde still within the vnyte of Christes catholike church then in the fifth chapter he shewed the cause that moued him rather to geue credence vnto Christes gospell then to Manicheus where among other he saieth these wordes Nostis n. me statuisse nihil avobis prolatū temere credere et cet For ye knowe saieth he that I am determined to geue no haistie credence to anye thing that ye speake of your awne heades I demaunde therfore Who is that Manicheus Ye answere An Apostle of Christ I beleue it not Now what canst thou saye or do thou shalt not opteine for thou dyddest promes knowlege of the trueth and now thou wilt compell me to beleue the thinge that I knowe not Peraduenture thou wilt reade me the gospell and therby wilt thou assaie to affirme the parson̄e of Manicheus Yf I shulde fynde anye man then which as yet beleueth not the gospel what shuldest thou do to him that sayeth vnto the I beleue not As for me I shulde not beleue the gospell vnlesse the auctorite of the catholike church dyd moue
him preach agaynst any such sens he was conuerted first from the wicked Papistrie Agaynst some of the ordinaunces or ceremonies vsed in youre church haue I heard him preach oft and many times As for you ye are none of Christes church by your owne saieng For herafter in youre treatise ye cōfesse your selfe that the congregacion of Christes church in this region of England is the Kynges Maiestye with his lerned counsaill And truly like as I am sure that ye are not Kyng of England so do I perceaue by youre wryting that ye are none of the Kynges lerned counsail And so by youre owne confession none of Christes church The ordinaunce of Christes church is that euery one from the prince to the lowest subiecte shall be diligent to wayte vpon his office and to do the thinge that god hath called him vnto To the ordinaunce of Christes church pertaineth all that is written concerning the dewtie of euery estate and also concerning such ordre as is mete to be kepte in the church acordinge to the doctrine of the Apostle .j. Cor. xiiij j. Cor. xj Dyd you euer now heare D. Barnes preach agaynst any such holy ordinaunce of god or of his church No verely I suppose For then doutlesse we shulde haue heard of it in this youre thondringe treatise Where as D. Barnes now hath kene erneste against youre wicked church of the Papistrie and preached agaynst the horrible abuses therof cal ye that erroneous railinge and traiterous speaking By that reason were the Prophetes erroneous raylers which rebuked the abuses of the Iewes church so ernestly Yee and agaynst the supersticious obseruynge of fasting dayes did the Prophetes preach as dyd also the Apostle S. Paul All these and many other moo of gods seruauntes did speake agaynst supersticious obseruynge of vayne fastes and agaynst the abusinge of that fast which god had commaunded But agaynst true fasting wherof mencion is made in many places of holy scripture haue not ye yet proued that D. Barnes dyd euer preach in his sermons nether agaynst such daies as by lauful auctorite are appoynted without supersticion for generall fastinges Yf ye will blame him for preaching against the abuse of prayer why do ye not also blame the Prophet Esaye oure sauyoure Christ himselfe the Apostle S. Iames S. Ambrose Gregory Barnard Chrysostome Hierome Cirillus Fulgentius Origen et cet Can ye saie now that ye haue iustly blamed D. Barnes in this behalfe But thankes be vnto god agaynst the right vse of prayer wherof mencion is made by oure sauioure and his Apostles thorow out the new Testament haue ye not yet proued that D. Barnes at any tyme dyd preach sens he forsoke the Papistrie nether agaynst such laufull dayes as by iust auctorite are appoynted for generall prayers and thankesgeuynges to god and for the accōplishinge of other spirituall exercyses grounded vpon gods worde Neuertheles I maruayll the lesse that ye blame him vnworthy in this poynte for ye are not ashamed also to belye him and to reporte of him that he denied godly ordinaunce to bynde vnto deedly sinne contrary to S. Paul Roman xiij which chapter with the contentes therof he defended in his sermons and writynges very ernestly and diligently set forth due obedience to the hyer powers to the great hynderaunce of ypocrites and their wicked church whose ordinaunce he denied utterly to bind vnto deedly synne because it is not grounded on gods worde But godly ordenaunce that is to saie the ordinaunce and institucion of god dyd not he denie but that the breakers and offenders therof do committe deedly synne As for mans ordinaunce not institute of god ner iustly grounded vpon his worde what Christen man hauynge witte to discerne betwene chalke and chese will saie or graunt excepte it be such wauering redes as feare man more then god that it byndeth vnto deedly synne seinge it is sinfull wicked and abhominable it selfe inuented by Sathan and repugnaunt vnto gods worde Is not such stuffe most vehemētly rebuked by gods owne mouth and also by his holy Apostle Are ye not ashamed then to affirme that man of his auctorite maie restrayne the thinges which are fre by the gospell Maye a man binde that god lowseth condemne that god saueth or holde him in preson whom god deliuereth Is man stronger then god or mans auctorite aboue the auctorite of god Or be they both alyke Where as ye saie that it is the church which hath this auctorite to restrayne the thinges that are fre by the gospell I answere The church of Cyrist is his spouse and the folde of those shepe that harken to his voyce vnto his voyce I say and not vnto the voyce of straungers He him selfe also sendinge out his Apostles biddeth them teach all that he hath commaunded them and not to bynde that he hath made fre nether to make fre that he hath bownd Agayne the nature and condicion of an honest wife is to harken to the wholsome wordes of hir husbande to preferre his commaundement and to se tyat his housholde folkes kepe it A strompet in dede and an harlot careth not to controlle hir husbande to disobeye him and to maynteyne euell rule in his house agaynst his minde That church therfore which taketh vpō her anye such auctorite as is not geuen her by Cyrist is not his laufull spouse nether can ye proue that he hath geuen your church anye power to restrayne the thinges which he hath made fre excepte ye do it with the wordes of S. Iames that saieth There is one lawgeuer which is able to destroie and to saue Or els with the wordes of S. Paul that asketh the Collossians this question Yf ye be deed with Christ from the ordinaunces of the worlde why are ye holden then with such tradiciōs as though ye liued after the world etc. Standishe Who hath not heard him preach a carnal libertie with a damnable iustificacion of onely faith to iustifie et cete Couerdale Truly it wolde make youre headeake to reade all the names of them that neuer heard D. Barnes preach anie such vnlauful libertie as you speake of But first I praie you what carnall or fleshly lybertye doth he preach that exhorteth men with well doinge to put to silence the ignoraunce of foolish men as fre and not as hauynge the libertie for a cloke of wickednesse How oft hath he taught this doctryne as they that haue heard him can tell yf they be not either malicious or els forgetfull Who can iustly denie but he oft and many times vpon due occasion in his wrytinges and sermons did exhorte his hearers that they wolde not lyue after the flesh ner accomplishe the lustes therof but to cast awaie the workes of dacknesse to put on the armoure of lighte to walke honestly in the light that god hath geuen them to folow such thinges as pertaine to peace and thinges wher by one maye edifye another to walke
haue reasoned with you allready Now because ye can not proue this last parte of youre conclusiō by scripture namely that your good dedes and actes are not vnpure ner vnperfecte in this life therfore the Prophet Esaie to recompence you the wrong that ye dyd him in minishing his wordes afore will yet take the paines for you to proue your purpose though it be litle to your minde Whan he saieth All we are become as an vncleane man and all oure righteousnesses are as a clothe stained with the floures of a woman And the wise man saieth also Who maie saie My hert is cleane I am pure from sinne Barnes ANd with this he cast abrode his handes and desyred god to forgeue him his trespas Standishe Extra ecclesiam nulla salus et cetera Couerdale Without the church ye saie is no saluacion Now is it manifest that beside the church made of lime and stone ther is also a congregacion church and multitude of frowarde and wicked doers which not onely gather them selues together like roaringe lyons fatt bulles wanton calues and curre dogges agaynst Christ as the xxj Psalme complaineth but also make lawes cōstitucions statutes ordinaunces and tradicions agaynst gods worde Wherby it commeth to pas that though they boast neuer so much of gods seruice yet all is to them in vaine as the Prophet and Christ himselfe doth testifie Another church is there which is the holy spouse congregacion and company of them that are of the felashippe and communion of Christ and walke not in darknes but in the trueth hauing al their sinnes clensed by his bloude This church continueth in the Apostles doctryne renneth not out from the heauenly felashippe of Christ and his membres distributeth the sacramentes duely and truly ceasseth not frō praieng and well doinge et ce are of one minde and soule are glad to helpe one another as it is manifest in the actes and Epistles of the Apostles The men of this church praie in all places liftinge vp pure handes et cet In this church whosoeuer asketh hath he that seketh findeth and to him that knocketh doth god open In this church is fre pardon and remission of sinnes for all true penitentes For god will not the death of sinners but yf they cōuerte vnto him they shall liue and who so is laden with sinne and commeth vnto Christ findeth rest and ease in his soule and shall not be cast out Forasmuch then as ye condemne D. Barnes thus doinge and iudge him to be none of the church that desireth god to forgeue him his trespace it is euident that in your church ther is no forgeuenes for poore sinners and so is it not the church of Christ Wherfore seinge ye discente frō Christes church where the dore is euer opened to them that knocke youre owne sentence condēneth you that ye can trust to haue no saluaciō by gods promes But alas what blindnesse is in you Though a sinner doth erre or hath erred from the right faith and from the true vse of the holy sacramentes that be in the church of Christ and now commeth to repentaunce desiringe god to forgeue him his trespace Is not this a damnable doctrine to teach that he can not trust to haue saluaciō by gods promes No hath god promised that sin̄ers which repēt shal not be saued The thefe that hanged on the right hand of Christ hath proued the cōtrary Agayne Yf a sin̄er maie not trust to haue saluacion by gods promes wherby thē maie he trust to haue it By himselfe by his owne workes Or by youre merites Euen by your merites as it apeareth wolde ye haue him trust to haue saluacion for ye must nedes be full of merites that in all your workyng committe no sinne as ye saye your selfe Morouer the tenoure of your wordes separateth the mercy of god from his promes as though they cōcurred not together But I pray you who can trust to haue saluacion by gods promes and trusteth not in his mercy Whan the Apostle saieth God gaue the enheritaunce vnto Abraham frely by promes was it not done by his mercy And whan he saieth in the same chapter Ye are the heires of Christ acording to the promes what meaneth he els but as he saieth to Titus that the kindnesse and loue of oure sauioure hath appeared not for the dedes of righteousnesse which we haue done but acordinge to his mercy hath he saued us et cet S. Iames wordes which ye bring in in latyn denieth no forgeuenesse to them that repent but like as he rebuketh them that are but Christen men in worde and not in good workes and dedes so yf parcialite be sinne then doth the circūstaunce of the same text cōdemne your former conclusion that saie ye sinne not in all your workes Standishe Loke the reward of finalis impenitētia et cet Couerdale D. Barnes words testifie what faith and repētaunce he had toward god and what hert he bare toward the comon welth of all Christendome and yet shame ye not to wryte that he dyed without repentaunce and in errours because he wold not denie Christ and reuoke his worde with you Standishe Which died by his wordes without signe or token of saluacion Couerdale Is it no token ner signe of saluacion to beleue in the holy and blessed trenite the incarnacion passion death and resurrectiō of our sauioure and to knowlege the same before men Is all this utterly no token of saluacion Christ and the Apostle Paul are of another iudgment Standishe And so his praier must nedes be voyde Couerdale D. Barnes cast abrode his handes and desired god forgeuenes and yet darre ye affirme that his praier must nedes be voide By the which wordes like as ye denie the article of forgeuenesse mencioned in our Crede and promised in the scripture to euery one that truly repenteth so declare ye euidently that ther is litle mercy in your mother the church of the wicked for in Christes church yf the sonne aske the father a pece of bred he will not geue him a stone but good thinges Standish Marke how he trusteth with in an houre et ce Couerdale Is it blinde arrogauncy whan a man refusing all confidence in his owne workes trusteth to haue eternall life thorow the mercy of god What blynd arrogauncy was in the Apostle whan he saide we knowe certainlie that yf oure earthy house of this dwelling were destroyed we haue a building ordeined of god an house not made with handes but euerlasting in heauen Oure sauioure also geueth this comforte to such as beleue in him that they shall not come to damnacion but passe from death vnto life Are ye not a comfortable Phisician then to mens consciences that shame not to teach other wise then Christ doth But surely these two places of scripture are not for the stablishinge of your soule masses and diriges and therfore
Couerdale D. Barnes wordes are playne ynough He goeth no farther then the article of your crede yf ye be a Christen man What will ye more Do these his wordes iudge any good man to be none of Christes church Or be they good men that professe not Christ Standish For it can not be but either your secte or the other be the malignaūt church Couerdale But so it is that ye which are of another secte blaspheme Christes bloude Ergo ye are of the malignaunt church Standish Two contraries can not stande both in one Couerdale It is not reason that they shulde and yet can ye bringe it so to pas for ye can prately well graunt to a thing in one place and denie the same in another as I tolde you oft afore Standish Hinc Iacobi iij. Nunquid fons de eodem foramine et cet Couerdale It foloweth a litle after euen in the same place yf anye man be wise and endewed with learnyng among you let him shew the workes of his good cōuersaciō in the mekenesse that is coupled with feare Which text doth utterly confute your former doctryne that will not haue us do good workes to set forth oure profession Standish Vnde .ij. Corinth vj. Que societas luci ad tenebras et cet Couerdale It foloweth immediatly in the text What parte hath the beleuer with the infidell How accordeth the tēple of god with images Now might I aske this questiō also of you How do these places of scripture that ye haue now alledged agree to the confutacion of D. Barnes wordes which saieth I do beleue that ther is a holy church and a company of all them that do professe Christ Standishe Wherby ye proue your selfe both an heretike and a traytoure Couerdale Do ye laie heresie and treason to him for beleuyng that ther is a holy church and a company of all them that do professe Christ Saieth he here anie thinge els And do ye not confesse your selfe that euery Christen man must thus beleue yf he will be saued Standish Makynge by youre deuelish doctrine not onely us to be the malignaunt church Couerdale To beleue that article of the Crede which D. Barnes here affirmeth is no doctryne to make you of the malignaunt church but your blaspheminge of Christes deare bloude your defacinge of his glorye your wresting peruerting and belieng of his holy worde and disagreyng from the wholsome doctryne therof maketh you ye maye knowe what by S. Pauls wordes .j. Timo. vj. Ye plaie here with D. Barnes though he be deed from this body as the false Prophet Sedechias did with Michee Who whan he had exhorted the kyng not to breake gods commaundemēt this Sedechias stepte forth among foure hundred of his secte and smote Michee vpon the cheke and saide What hath the sprete of the lord forsaken me and spoken vnto the Euen thus do ye with the deed whom though ye may not hurt with your fist yet do ye your worst with your tonge against him Notwithstondinge ye shall be of the malignaunt church still for all your facyng and bragginge yee though ye had ten thousand times foure hundred false Prophetes of youre side solonge as ye resist the manifest trueth of god Standish But also oure heade the Kynges graces maiestye and his honorable counsell Couerdale I darre saye that the Kynges highnesse and his noble counsaill doth iudge no malignite to be imputed vnto them whan anie subiecte beleueth that ther is a holy church for they knowe that it is an article necessary to be beleued of all Christen men Wherfore this cauillaciō declareth you planely to be but a pike thanke in this behalfe Well yet remembre the ende of Sedechias the storye is written for your warnyng And verely like as myne humble expectacion in the Kynges highnesse doth persuade me so heard I a very famous and prudent counsailour of his who yet is aliue saye within these few yeares that of all prynces liuing his grace is the greatest enemie to flatrers whan he ones hath thorowly spied them The Kynge also hath receaued his hie and suppreme office of god to defend the worde the faith the congregacion and church of god within his dominion and is no mayntener of anye such malignaunt church Yf your doctrine come to light it will doutlesse declare the same Standish By whose lawes you be now iustly condemned to be burnte Couerdale By what lawe he was cōdemned I wote not nomore than I can tell what poynt of treason was layed vnto him But sure I am that like as the ciuile lawes of euery realme excepte the prynce graunt his pardon condemne such as are accused by the mouthes of many witnesses so do false witnesses oft tymes bring to death euen innocent persons as ye se by the storie of Naboth of Susanna of holy S. Steuen in the actes and of oure Sauioure Christ Yee cleane contrary to the iudges minde Neuertheles though Cain slaye Abel in the busshes yet will murthur come out at the last Standish But now to speake of this parte of your belefe et cete Couerdale What is the holy church and cōpany of thē that professe Christ but that true and faithfull church which is ruled by the holy goost acording to gods promes euen the congregacion of the electe and chosen children of god What els can ye iustly gather of D. Barnes wordes but he confesseth the same whan he saieth I beleue that ther is a holy church et cete Standish For this is the company that professe Christ with their mouth et cet Couerdale So they do also with other good frutes aswell as with their mouth Now yf this company of Christes church do professe Christ with their mouth then haue they some iniunctiō of god so to do for without his commaundement will they do nothinge ner consente to that which they knowe not to be his will And thus haue ye proued your selfe at the last that it is not erroneous to saye how that god hath commaunded us to do good workes for the settyng forth of our profession Had it not bene more worshippe to you for to haue graunted the same at the first thē now with shame to affirme it that ye denyed afore Barnes ANd that all that haue suffred and cōfessed his name be sayntes and that all they do prayse and laude god in heauē more then I or any mans tonge can expresse Standishe As you do take it this is also erroneous et ce Couerdale What so euer the cause were that he was put to death for wherof I am ignoraunt it is no euell token of a Christen man at the very poynt of his death among other articles of the crede to confesse that such a holy church ther is which professeth the name of Christ and ys content to laude and prayse it and to lyue and die in his cause Nether is it erroneous thus to saie Of arrogauncye that ye
teach or warne me Seing that I was obedient vnto them whan they sayde beleue the gospel why may I not obeie them whan they saye vnto me beleue not Manicheus et cet By the circumstaunce now of S. Augustines wordes it is euident first that he wolde beleue no such doctrine as men brought vp of their owne heades Secondly that he wold beleue no vncertayne doctryne ner that he knewe not to be true Thirdly that the occasion which moued him to beleue the gospell was the whole consent and auctorite of the catholike or vniuersall church Now like as he reporteth not of them that they preached anie other doctryne vnto him saue the gospell so saieth he not that he beleued anye other lernyng saue onely it And in confutinge of Manicheus erroure he bringeth none other doctryne but the scripture as it is manifest in the same fifth chapter of his boke What helpe haue ye now in S. Augustines wordes either to proue praieng to saintes or that a particular church maye by her auctorite make anye article necessary to be beleued excepte it be grounded in scripture Ye meant somwhat whan ye chopped vp S. Augustines wordes of that fashion It is not for naught that ye so haue peruerted his sayeng and reade it otherwise then it standeth in his boke For these are his wordes I shulde not beleue the gospell vnlesse the auctorite of the catholike church dyd moue me Now is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to saye as vniuersalis Which worde like as ye leaue out in youre lectiō so folowe ye the mynde of Franciscus Maronis such another holy father as was your inquit quidam who commynge long after S. Augustine dyd gather of these his forsaid wordes that the auctorite of the church is greater then the auctorite of holy scripture where as S. Aug. meant nothinge lesse but teacheth us that who so euer bringeth vp anye opynion or setteth forth anye doctryne we shall receaue none but that which agreeth with the manifest doctryne of the vniuersall church of Christ That is we shall holde us to that doctryne which was taught by the Prophetes by the Apostles and by such other as were true folowers of them in Christes holy congregacion and church Standish Is it not still fundamentum et columna veritatis et cet Couerdale The vniuersall congregacion and multitude of thē that beleue in Christ is still the house of god the church of the liuinge god the piler and stablishment of the trueth For there dwelleth god with his mercy grace trueth forgyuenesse et cet Nether dyd the Apostles contrary to Christes former institucion whan they to set vp his name which then was so sore spurned at dyd baptise in the same yf ye remembre well the prerogatyue of holy baptyme and the presence of the blessed trenyte therin Standishe Paul the vessel of election m. v. hundert yeres and more past desired the Romaynes cap. xv the Collo cap. iiij the Tessa j. Tessa v. to praye for him et cet Couerdale I turned not ouer two leafes of your treatise sens I red these your wordes where ye saie thus How can it be in scripture thou impudent heretike the prayer vnto saintes Lorde Iesu what meane ye man Will ye by scripture proue that thing which as ye your self confesse can not be in scripture Do ye not graūt your selfe that the holy scripture is the very worde of god Wyll ye then by gods holy worde proue that thinge which can not be therin Wyll ye belye the worde of god Saye ye not your selfe in another place afore that it is an abhominable vice to slaundre it To what poynt no to haue ye brought that worshipfull doctrine of your vnholy mother the malignaunt church Which teacheth that we must now praie vnto S. Paul and other sayntes because that he beynge here in this body dyd requyre other men to praye for him and for all saintes Now is his request such that yf we shuld fulfill it yet for him aswell as whan he was lyuyng vpō erth thē shuld we desire god to be good to his holy sayntes that are out of this life And then god saue oure lady helpe S. Paul and conforte swete S. Anthony A mocker are ye with gods holy word and a shameful slaūdrer therof therfore as vnworthy to be answered vnto euery vayne sentence of your vnstable doctryne so leaue I your long disputacion therin Desiringe all Christen readers to note wel what scriptures ye bring forth and to cōpare the same vnto the open texte and then trie which of oure two doctrynes is moost agreable to gods holy worde The doctryne of the Prophetes of Christ oure Sauioure of his holy Apostles and of such as haue and do folowe them in the catholike or vniuersall church and congregacion of god Is his holy worde and scripture which as holy S. Paul darre aduowe is able to instructe us vnto saluacion which is thorow the faith in Christ Iesu et cet Yf youre article therfore of prayenge to sayntes that be out of this life were a thing belonging to saluacion no doubte the same holy scripture of god wold haue taught it The awncient firme stable and true doctryne of Christes catholike or vniuersall church is this that like as Christ Iesus toke vpon him oure flesh and bloude without sinne and deliuered us frō eternall death and hell so is he still oure mercifull and faithfull hie prest in thinges concerning god to make agrement for oure sinnes and able to socoure such as are tempted He is the seate of grace to whom yf we resorte we maie receaue mercy and fynde grace to helpe in tyme of nede he is able also euer to saue them that come vnto god by him and lyueth euer to make intercessiō for us yee and appeareth now for us before the face of god This doctryne is confirmed by those same textes of scripture that ye bring in j. Iohn secundo Iohn xiiij j Timoth. secundo and yet without open scriptures are ye not ashamed to resiste it We are cōmaunded thorow out all holy scripture both of the olde and new Testamēt to praie vnto Allmightie god to call vpon him to make oure peticions vnto him and to aske of him what soeuer we lacke We haue his true and faithfull promes that yf we so do we shall be hearde we shall haue oure request we shall finde that we seke we shall be delyuered et cet We haue ensamples innumerable that all those faithfull people whom the scripture maketh mencion of dyd make their peticions and praier to none other but vnto god whyle they were in this life Let Cornelius whom we spake of afore and the practise of the prymityue church beare recorde Shal we now refuse gods holy cōmaundemēt thinke scorne of his louing promes despise the ensamples of his catholike and vniuersall church and defye gods holy ordinaunce as ye
do and renne at riote with your doctryne Awaye from us ye wicked the commaundementes of our god will we kepe and not yours Standish Which toke oure synnes on him penam pro peccatis j. Pet. ij et cet Couerdale Ye taught afore wresting many scriptures for your purpose that euery man must satisfie for the punishment belonginge vnto sinne and now ye graunt that Christ toke the paine vpō him therfore As much hold is there at your doctryne as at an elys tale Standish But we haue moo meanes concernyng intercession et cet Couerdale The scripture is manifest that euery one of us in this life is boūd to praie for another and dailie occasions haue we of such peticions and exhortacions as appertayne to oure estate As for praiēg to saintes that be out of this life Ye haue myne answere allready Barnes NOtwithstonding whether they praye for us or no that I referre to god Standish A good Christē man wold haue gone no further then the congregacion of Christes church that is to saie in this region the kinges maiesty with his lerned counsaill Couerdale Like as your vnreuerent handling of the holy scriptures afore rehearced and your wicked doctrine against the same declareth you to be none of Christes church vnlesse ye repent and turne so do ye here exempte youre selfe from that holy congregacion Maruaill not therfore though whan I se you folowe your vnholy mother and not Christes deare spouse I call you now and then her owne whyte sonne In this region of England ye saie the congregaciō of Christes church is the Kynges Maiestie with his lerned counsaill But is this a sufficient diffinicion what a comforte is this now for so many of the Kynges subiectes both lerned and vnlerned to heare that they are not of Christes congregacion Is it a greate consolacion for the foote to be none of the body Ye repute D. Barnes no good Christen man because he wolde not define whether sayntes praie for us or no but referred that vnto god and not to the Kynges maiestie and his lerned counsaill What will ye make of the Kynges grace A prince that had rather haue secrete thinges referred vnto him then vnto god the onely knower of all secretes Or do ye esteme the Kynges lerned counsaill to be such men as will geue iudgment in thinges that be not euident Or thinke ye them to be ignoraunt of the scripture which forbyddeth men to search out or to medle with secrete thinges that god hath not commaunded Barnes ANd yf saintes do praie for you thē I trust within this halfe hour to praie for you M. sheriffe and for euery Christē man liuing in the faith of Christ and dyenge in the same as a saynt Wherfore yf the deed maye praye for the quicke then I will surely praye for you Standishe O damnable presumpcion et cetera Couerdale Because this man trusted thorow the onely mercy of god in Christ to passe from this death vnto life ye note damnable presumpcion arrogaunt presumpcion and presumptuous arrogaūcy in him And because ye maye seme to haue scripture to proue that D. Barnes wolde temerously appoynte and determyne the tyme himselfe for his so sayeng ye bringe in quod pater posuit in sua potestate as right as a rammes horne and as nye to the purpose as Pauls steple and mount Falcon. At the tyme of the ascension of oure sauyoure whan the Apostles were come together they asked him and sayde Lord shalt thou at this tyme set vp the kyngdome of Israel agayne He sayd vnto them It belongeth not vnto you to knowe the tymes and seasons which the father hath kepte in his awne power et cetera A like answere to such another question geueth he in another place and saieth Of that daye and houre knoweth no man no not the angels of heauen but the father onely What maketh this now to proue that he which acordinge to Christes promes trusteth to pas from this death to life doth temerously appoynt and determine the same time daye or season which our Sauyoure there speaketh of Or that he is either presumptuous or arrogaunt which acording to the ensample of holy scripture is certaine and sure that after the destruction of his body he hath an euerlastinge dwelling in heauen Haue ye not now alledged the scripture well to the purpose Ye wold haue men beleue as it appeareth by you doctrine that whan they departe hence they shall go from the hall in to the kytchen or els in to the whole kylle of your purgatory Standish Loke what case he is in that thus ended his life et cet Couerdale To proue here that saintes praie for us in heauen ye make a long disputacion and with the scriptures ye do as ye were wont They haue loue yet ye saie and therfore they praye for us and are our aduocates I answere The same places of scripture that ye bringe in your selfe are moost against you for they declare manifestly that it is the office of Christ to make intercession for us and that he is with the father oure aduocate which opteineth grace for our sinnes The saintes then that be in heauen knowinge this eternall will of god loue us not so that they desyre to be nether can they be against it It is a token that your doctryne hath but a weake foundacion whan ye go aboute to proue it by a dreame yee and that out of such a boke as serueth not for the confirmacion of the doctryne of Christes church for though it be red among the stories of other bokes yet dyd not the church receaue it among the Canonical scriptures in S. Hieroms tyme. Nether can ye proue that boke laufull by anye sayeng of Christ for thorow out all the new Testament he maketh mencion of none but of the lawe the Prophetes and the Psalmes and byddeth not search anye other scriptures but such as beare recorde and testimonye of him The xv of Ieremy proueth as doth also the vij the xj the xiiij of his boke that god will not be intreated where his worde is troden vnder foote and where men will nedes spurne agaynst it And verely in all the scripture could ye not haue brought in a more manifest place to cōfute your owne doctrine if it be compared to the xiiij of Ezechiel The xvj of Luke proueth nothing for your purpose in that Abraham praied not to god whan he was desired But like as it proueth that ther is no redempcion in hell ner time of acceptable repentaunce and forgyuenesse after this life So proueth it euidently that we ought to holde us to the onely word and scripture of god and not to loke for other doctrynes visions dreames or reuelacions The place Apoca. vj. proueth that the voyce of Abels bloude and of such as are slayne for the worde of god cryeth vengeaunce from the erth and vnder the altare as S.
can stoppe the trueth no farther ye wold beare us in hand that it is the wryters iudgment onely which ascrybeth vnto him that he paciently toke his death as though there were none els that herd him and sawe him dye but the wryter alone Couerdale Allbe it I will iudge onely of the outwarde behaueour Couerdale Iudge not after the outward appearaūce saieth our sauyour but geue a righteous iudgment Yet do ye not as ye saye for in many places of your treatise ye iudge the mans mynde and intent yee contrary to his wordes Standishe Takyng occasion by his erroneous wordes to iudge he dyed an obstinate heretike Couerdale Ye can not denye but that after the open confession of his faith and his humble requestes vnto the Kynges grace he than reconcyled himselfe to all men and at the last whan he had desyred thē to praye for him toke his death paciently and yelded vp his soule in to the handes of allmightye god For all this ye do not onely call his wordes erroneous but also geue sentence that he dyed an obstinate heretike Standish And as for the inward secretes whether he be condēned or saued whether he yelded vp his soule in to the handes of allmightie god or no et cet I remitte that to the secrete counsaill of the blessed trenite Couerdale A wonderfull thing is it that ye are so vnstable in your wordes Do ye not take vpon you afore to iudge that he dyed an obstinate heretike And now ye can not tell whether he be saued or condemned whether he yelded vp his soule in to the handes of allmightie god or no. But can an obstinate heretike yelde vp his soule whan he is deed all ready Can an obstinate heretike be saued Beholde now to what worshippe ye bring your doctryne at the last Standish Vnto whom be laude honour and glory for euermore Amen Couerdale Amen Euen to that same blessed trenyte father sonne and holy goost be honour and glory now and euermore Amen The Apostle describing the office and dewtie of a ministre or preacher of gods word wylleth him among all other qualities to shew himself such a laudable workman as nede not be ashamed handling the word of trueth iustly Wherfore seyng ye haue so vnreuerently handled gods holy word peruerted it wrested it and belyed it so oft and many tymes in your treatise Maruaill not at this myne inuectyue agaynst your false doctryne As for symple ignoraunce and such frayll weaknesse as accompanyeth the nature of man whether he will or no it may be suffred and borne But wilful spurnyng at gods holy word froward and false belieng therof must nedes be rebuked and improued Your zele for all your holy pretēce is to suppresse gods trueth to mainteine that doctrine which the catholike or vniuersal church of christ neuer receaued and to defend the church malignaūt in hir wickednesse This is manifest by your present practise But god allmightie which soweth the sede of his holy word and dayly increaceth it in the hartes of his faithfull shall though no man els will maynteyne and defende it himselfe We also whom god will not to be ydle shall do our best and be carieng stones to the makyng vp of the wal which ye haue broken downe To the intent that Christ our sauyour maye haue his owne glorye which ye haue robbed him of our prince his honoure and oure neghboure his dewtie To all true Christen readers Faynt not thou in faith deare reader nether waxe colde in loue and charite though the enemies of gods worde be gathered together and growne in to such swarmes Be thou strong in the lorde and in the power of his might And let it not discorage the that the sayd worde is so litle in the estimacion of the world so greatly despised so sore persecuted so wickedly peruerted wrested and belyed so vnthankfully receaued so shamefully denied and so slouthfully folowed Arme thy selfe therfore with the confortable ensamples of the scripture And as touchinge those ioly Nimrottes that persecute gods worde hunting it out of euery corner whetting ther swerdes and bendyng their bowes agaynst it Be thou sure that the god of oure fathers Abraham Isaac and Iacob shall do with thē as he euer was wont to do with tirauntes in times past Thou seist thorow out the stories of the holy byble how that like as he turneth some of their hartes from crueltie to mekenesse Euē so with death with fyre with water and with such other his plages destroyeth he them that will nedes despise his warninge Yee breaketh their bowes in peces and killeth thē with ther own swerdes As for Iamnes and Iambres those wicked sorcerers and couetous chaplens that teach cōtrary to gods worde and dissuade the greate mē of the world frō it Their owne wrestinge and belyeng of it must nedes cōfound thē For though ther be many that resist the truth yet whan it is uttered and commeth to light their madnesse as S. Paul saieth shall be manifest vnto all men And as Moses rodd deuoured their roddes in the Kynges presence So likewise the same places of scripture that they alledge for their wicked purpose shall destroye their false doctryne in the face of the world Yee euen as litle honestie as the papistry hath gotten by wresting of Tu es Petrus et cet so small profit are they like to haue for belyeng of other textes Nether is it to be feared but god will do for one parte of his worde asmuch as for another whan he seith his tyme. Concernyng those bely beastes that for no cōmaundement ner promes of god for no example warnyng ner exhortacion will be counsayled but still blaspheme his holy worde thorow their vngodly conuersacion let not that withdrawe the from the waye of righteousnesse Loue not thou Christ the worse though Iudas be a traytoure Sett not thou the lesse by his wholsome doctrine though dogges turne to their vomite and though swine walow in their stinking mire agayne I knowe gentle reader that to all true Christē hartes it is a great tentaciō to se gods holy worde either persecuted belyed or vnthankfully receaued But first remembre thy selfe well by the practyse of all stories whan was it without persecucion Whan was there not one tyraunt or other that exercised all his power strength witte and counsaill against it Whan were the childrē of Israel without some bloudy Edomites Egiptians Assirians Babilonians Philistines or other Secōdly Whan was not gods worde belied peruerted or euell spoken of by one false Prophet or other Were there not heretikes and flatringe chaplens in all ages that withdrue men from the trueth and misreported the straight waies of the lord Thirdly whan were there not some multitudes that pretēding a loue toward Christes word did but folow him for their own belies sake whan was the sede of Christes word sowē but some parte of it fell vpō the stony ground where it withred and among the thornes