can and to follow good Examples where they are to be had In these Reflections of his a man must have very good luck that meets with any thing that is worth answering but if he cannot find what he would he must learn patience and be content with what he can get I. He would make us believe That the only way of giving his first Book a just Reply P. 9. was to have shewn that the Faith as there stated was not really the Faith of Catholicks Now this indeed might have been the Only way according as the Representer might have drawn his Characters but as he has ordered the matter 't is not the only way for he has for the most part told stories hy halves in the Character of a Papist Represented and surely one Misrepresenting Trick is discovered on his side if it be shewn that the Faith of a Papist as stated under this or that Article P. 15. is not all his Faith but that it seems there was something concealed which was too bad to be shewn For instance The Representer takes occasion to bring in this Character of a Papist under the head of Indulgences The Papists teach That neither the Pope nor any other Power upon Earth can give leave to sin for a sum of money Nay in his first Book the Papist believes it damnable to hold that any Power in Heaven or Earth can do it Now we will suppose this to be the Faith of a Papist But then to represent him as he is he should have added thus much at least That he does not believe it damnable to hold that an Indulgence or Pardon of sins can be obtained for a Sum of Money after they are committed nor that the Tax of the Apostolick Chamber which sets the pardons of the most horrid sins at very reasonable rates is a Damnable Scandal nor that they who trust in the Popes Bulls for plenary remission of sins are damnably deceived Now all this is concealed and yet I doubt it will be found to belong to the Character of a Papist with respect to the matter of Indulgences and Pardons and in all like cases to shew what the Representer concealed is a Just Reply to his Characters but whether it be a just Reply to Him is a point wherein he is more concerned than we need to be II. He seems to lay great weight upon this That to this pitch of Confidence if not more are some Church of England Divines arrived that they pretend to know what the Religion of Papists is better than they Is it likely says he the Jews can tell better what Christ teaches than Christ himself or his Apostles Can Protestants tell better what Catholicks believe than Catholicks themselvrs If the Character of a thing is best received from professed interested and bitter Enemies then indeed they may put in for the best Informers of our Faith. Much more he says to this purpose just as he cried out Pulpits and Popery without adding any thing of new matter Now where no Answers are needful I am sure these that follow may suffice 1. 'T is false that I for instance pretenâ— to know what the Religion of Papists is better than he the Representer But for all that 't is true that unless he mends his Characters of a Papist Represented I do pretend to represent Popery with more honesty than he does I cannot tell what this Man believes better than he does himself nor so well neither but I can tell as well as he what their Trent Council their Catechisms their Pontifical their Missal their Breviary and their established Offices say Are these Mysteries that no Man must pretend to understand but a Representer and some few besides For 2. Why must we be brought in as pretending to know what Popery is better than Papists know it Was Bellarmin with all those of the old strain a Protestant Is Father Crasset a Protestant or Cardinal Capisucchi who approved the Bishop of Condom's Exposition too Are they Protestants in Spain or Italy Do we represent their Worship of Images so grosly as that very Cardinal does Do we represent Popery otherwise than as all these have and do profess and practise 3. It had been an Impudent thing in the Jews to pretend that they could tell better what Christ taught than Christ himself or his Apostles And it was silly in the Representer to run to so high an instance unless he would insinuate that we are as it were Jews and himself a kind of an Apostle I would have him observe that we are not so sensless as to think that we can tell what a Representer and an Expositor teach better than themselves but in many things we can tell as well as they by the same token that they teach some things for Catholick Doctrines which in their Church have been accounted little better than Heresies and suppress others which their predecessors scorned to suppress But tho' some Romanists do now think fit to palliate their Religion in this manner yet Christ and his Apostles did no such thing and were not therefore liable to that Reproof which these men must bear in spite of their hearts 4. For what he says That Bitter Enemies are not to be believed in the Characters they give of others I Answer That neither are designing and self-interested men to be believed in the Characters they give of themselves Animosity says he sets a Biass upon the Heart And is there nothing that does it beside What thinks he of the Design to reconcile a Nation so averse to Popery as this is and of the several conveniencies that will follow such a Change Nor is it so certain that we are their Bitter Enemies as that they are very great Lovers of themselves I am so far from being a Bitter Enemy to the Representer that I am now doing him the Office of a severe Friend by telling him the Truth which he cares not to hear but it may be I may bring him to blushing which he seems to have taken his leave of and he may in time thank me for it I tell him that in this place he talks wretchedly and I desire him to reflect upon himself before he pretends to make any more Reflections upon us Don't every body know says he that the Church of England has proclaim'd her self an open and professed Enemy to the Church of Rome Does not this unqualify her for a True Representer Now admitting our Church to be as open and professed an Enemy to his as she is to the Errors and Abuses of it yet who does not know that this can only unqualify her for a Representer to be believed upon her own word But she may Represent truly for all that Which is so plain a Case that this Man if he was in his right mind when he wrote those things could not but know it The most therefore that he could honestly make of this supposed enmity of our Church against his is that we
the Representer has made for us One thing I am sure of that the Converts of the City of Orange were received upon such easy terms in point of Declaration that if Subjection and Communion had not been to follow one would have look'd upon the whole Transaction as a solemn Jest between the French General and the Bishop of Orange on the one side and the Citizens of Orange on the other The Passage is very remarkable and instructing and therefore I shall not think much to set down the Articles of Reconciliation as I have received them from hands of unquestionable credit 1. The Citizens of the Town of Orange that are under written considering that it is the Will of God of which Kings are the principal Interpreters that all Christians should reunite themselves into the same Church To testify their submission to the Order of the Divine Providence and that which they bear to the Holy Intentions of the King do intreat of his Majesty that his Troops commanded by the Count de Tessé should depart from them and that the Expence which has been or shall be made by them be levied upon the whole State without distinction of Religion We Order the Execution of the present Article according to the full Tenor of it Tessé 2. They declare that they do reunite themselves to the Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church after the manner which that Church do's use to believe and to profess all the Christian and Orthodox Truths contained in the Holy Scripture which God hath manifested to the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists following the Interpretation and Sense of the Universal Church and renouncing all Errors and Heresies contrary thereunto 3. That for their great Consolation and Edification every Sunday before the Service there shall be read a Chapter of the Holy Scripture of the Old and New Testament in French according to the Translations approved by the Church and that all the Divine Service which is performed in Latin shall be explained in French by the Pastors of the Church 4. That they shall invoke no other besides God the Father Son and Holy Ghost 5. That they shall not believe that it is necessary to Salvation to have any other Intercession and Mediation than that of our Lord Jesus Christ towards God the Father 6. That they shall not be obliged to render any Divine Honour to Images which shall be in the Church 7. That they shall adore Jesus Christ in the Eucharist who is Really Spiritually and Sacramentally contain'd in that Adorable Sacrament 8. That this Consolation shall be given to the Faithful that they shall communicate in both Kinds if the Universal Church shall think it convenient Done at Orange the 11th of Nov. 1685. We James d' Obeilh by the Grace of God Bishop of Orange Abbot and Count of Montfor Counsellor of the King in all his Councils have admitted these who are countersigned to the Reunion of the Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church upon the Conditions expressed in the Eight Articles above written Done at Orange this 13th of Novemb. 1685. John James Bishop of Orange The Representer may I think see in this Example that he is out-done in his own way and that there are in the World more mild and inoffensive Representations of Popery than his own and some provisions for saving the Consciences of the Reformed which himself has not made But I would know of him whether he do's believe that those who united themselves to the Roman Church with these Cautions can be reasonably judged to have proceeded with satisfaction in themselves and about what they did Or rather whether there be not all the Signs that one can have in a thing of this Nature that being distressed between a troublesome Conscience on the one Hand and Count Tessés Troops on the other they capitulated as well as they could for their own quiet and granted what they did to be delivered from the Souldiers and no more than what they did if by that means they might pacify their own Minds A very miserable Case most certainly And that which is yet more to be lamented is that these things should be done by Christians upon Christians Let the Representer take it into his serious Consideration and I believe it will be one of those things that he will always forget to put into the Character of his Papist Represented But why must the Minds of Men be racked in this manner Why must they be brought under the most dangerous Temptations to cheat themselves and for the gaining of rest from outward Miseries to betray the Tranquillity of their own Consciences and be constrained to play such Tricks with them as if one Man should chuse to put upon another he would be accounted no better than a cunning Knave He that cannot see the true Reason of this unmerciful dealing and that too by this very Example can see but little It is Vnion that is to say Submission to what they call the Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church that must be by these means or by any means carried on This we meet with at the very head of the Provisions and again at the foot of them in the Bishop's Certificate Nor are any of the Reformed to expect otherwise but that this shall be expresly insisted on But because the poor People knew that Union to that Church carried dreadful Things along with it therefore they strugled and it seems they gained one of the prittiest Limitations of that Vnion that ever was heard of viz. To believe and to profess all the Christian and Orthodox Truths contained in the Holy Scripture which God hath manifested to the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists But then this Limitation would make the Vnion very insignificant for thus one may be united to the Turk viz. to believe and to profess all the Christian and Orthodox Truths contained in the Holy Scripture And therefore something must be added to that and certainly greater Artifice on both sides shall seldom be seen than what is shewn in putting in these words after the manner which that Church dos use which may indifferently refer either to reuniting or believing The People may understand it of being united to the Roman Church after the manner it uses till the Bishop teaches them to understand it of believing the Christian Truths of the Scripture after the manner of that Church And so by understanding the Scripture after the Interpretation and Sense of the Vniversal Church the Bishop has his meaning and they have theirs as long as he will suffer them The most jealous Princes never treated more nicely for their Honour than these poor Protestants did for their Conscience and their Masters for the Church of Rome And considering that they had but two hours allowed them to unite to the Roman Church before the last Extremity should be used upon refusal and that there were Difficulties on both Sides the Protestants consulted for their Consciences as much as it was possible for Men to do
be demanded 1. Let him go through the 37 Heads as I said before and tell us particularly what the Answerer charges upon Papists which we do well in rejecting but ill in imputing it to them And 2. Let him say plainly to every particular where he thinks there is just occasion to say so The Church of Rome will not receive you if you come with this Belief or with this Practice which yet you presume to call Popery But if the Representer will undertake for us upon these Terms even of Popery as 't is represented by that Author then I must beg of him to tell us what he meant by such Expressions as these If you have truly represented the Doctrines of the Church of Rome Reflect p. 18. I would as soon be a Turk as your Papist That Imaginary Monsters are raised up to knock down at pleasure Pref. p. 1. That we raise a Monster of Religion such as none can be in love with Pag. 21. but those that are bold enough to embrace Damnation bare-fac'd and then this is the Character of Popery And much more to the same purpose which he says up and down in his Replies Nothing is more familiar with him than to say we abhor and detest and abominate that which is charged upon us But I beseech you Sir is your Church so Catholick as to take in Men who say and do such things as part of their Religion which you detest and abominate who come with a Monster of Religion that none can be in love with but the Lovers of bare-fac'd Damnation Or does it take in Turks for you would as soon be a Turk as our Papist as you told us long since Here I am apt to think you will need all the improvement of your Confidence and it will not help you neither You have been thus long dancing in a Net and if you are not secured that way I have so often hinted before you will now begin to see it For I pray observe if the Characters that your first Answerer set a Papist out with are black enough to make a Man look like a Turk nothing could have been more easie to note than these Characters and you know Monsters are very remarkable things and may be shown with a Finger And therefore we do expect that you would now at last point them out as they lie at large for so you say they do throughout the Answerer 's Book And when you have done this it will then come upon you to declare whether with these Monsters you will present us to your Church and undertake for our Admittance or not If you will not pray say so and by the way think of giving some account how those Schoolmen and private Authors came to be the celebrated Members and those Old Rituals and Mass-books the standing Offices of your Church for you do not accuse your Answerer for seeking any where else to find these Monsters But to come close to the Point if you will take any Man that comes with these Monsters have we not great reason to supect that if we should come without them you would not expose your self to defend us from them if it should be thought fit to let them loose upon us I hope therefore that we shall be troubled with this offer no more of coming into your Church upon your Terms till you give us some better reason than yet we have had to believe that you are willing to secure us from those Terms which in general you say are monstrous but which you have not yet told us what they are in particular HERE THEREFORE I CHALLENGE YOU TO DECLARE WHAT THOSE PARTICULARS ARE THOSE MONSTERS THOSE DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES WHICH YOU DO SO DETEST AND ABOMINATE AND IF YOU REFUSE SO TO DO I FASTEN UPON YOU THE MARK OF INSINCERITY AND JUGGLING FOR OFFERING THAT WE SHALL BE RECEIVED INTO THE CHURCH OF ROME WITHOUT THEM For observe me Sir if for fear of falling foul upon those of your own Party you dare not declare in particular what those Monsters are tho this be necessary to gain us to your Communion how much less will you stand between us and them when once we are gain'd Nor must you think to give us the slip now as hitherto you have done It will no longer serve your turn to feign Characters of a Papist Misrepresented for us and to raise up Imaginary Monsters as you speak to knock down at pleasure Remember to take your Answerer's Characters of a Papist who has so described your Religion that you would as soon be a Turk as his Papist This you know is to be done for our satisfaction and therefore our Characters of a Papist as we describe them for our selves not as you describe them for us are to be marked by you Remember again that you go from Point to Point and tell us all along as you go what it is in his way of stating your Religion which you detest and abominate for we shall take it for granted that you do not detest or at least that you do not say that you detest what you let go without any note of your Indignation In a word this is but what you ought to have done all this while and the Representing Controversy had been soon at an end But now it is necessary for you to do it that we may at least know what your Popery is and what reason we have to trust your Offers Whether I shall hear from you upon these Matters I cannot foresee but in the mean time I do not much care if I give you my Thoughts concerning the bottom of this Business I question not but you are willing to receive us into the Roman Church upon our making the Profession of your Papist Misrepresented and I have some reason to think upon much easier terms of Profession for which I shall by and by give my Reason If we would but do as you do we might for some time put what Interpretation upon it we please If we would subscribe Pope Pius his Creed we might deliver in a Protestation of what sense we please if we would but adore the Cross and worship the Sacrament as you do we might declare what Intention we please But in Matters of Religion Insincerity and Dissimulation are such odious things that we who dare not prevaricate with our own Consciences can neither have a very good Opinion of those who would help us to do so nor of the Cause which needs it We cannot but see that the secret meaning of all is this that we must submit to Rome and do as they do at Rome and till better care can be taken we may be allowed to comment upon what we do even as we list and while we take our Rule of Faith and Worship from Papists we may if that will content us go on to talk like Protestants And I doubt not but that if this were honest we might make better Conditions for our selves than
the same Worship as Christ himself and what does he conclude upon it Why that any one may hold which side they please as an Opinion or suspend their Judgment but neither side is truly what you ought to mean by Popery And therefore I conceive that if neither side be Popery the Representers side is not Popery but a private Opinion which the Church has not yet censured as the Vindicator says Now what the Vindicator said in this Case is applicable to all others where the Answerer plainly shewed that the Eminent and Leading Men of the R. Church were of a different Sentiment from the Representer Whereas therefore the Representer either promised or threatned great matters in his Introduction I 'll endeavour says he to separate these Calumnies and Scandals from what is REALLY THE FAITH AND DOCTRINE OF THE CHVRCH I 'll take off the Black and Dirt which has been thrown upon her and set her forth in her GENVINE Complexion I 'll Represent a Papist whose Faith and Exercise of his Religion is according to the Direction and Command of the Church The Vindicator has on the other hand knocked him down at one blow For says he So long as the Church determines not the Dispute any one may hold which side they please as an opinion but neither side is truly what you ought to mean by Popery This shews that I was not much out of the way when I noted the great hazard of these Expounding and Representing designs The truth is it was so nice a work that in prudence they ought to have committed it to one hand and the Representer should have been the Vindicator For while they are two and and each of them driven to straits one of them being pressed on one side and the other on another side the danger was great that each of them would shift for himself a several way and be exposed to the Reproaches of one another Thus it happened that the Representer being pressed by his Adversaries for not having fairly Represented Popery was fain at last to make a Rule to know the Churches Sense by which might serve his turn and what should that be but the Currant passing of his Book amongst Catholics for this he thinks was enough to shew that the Doctrine of it was Authentic But the Vindicator being pressed with the Opposition that is made in the Roman Communion to the Doctrine of the Exposition and perceiving that Currant passing would not serve his turn he I say comes out a Month after the Representer and will not allow any thing to make Doctrine Authentic under the express Words of a General Approved Council and he has utterly undone the poor Representer's Rule of Currant passing which he thought was enough to shew that his Doctrine was Authentic Nay the unfortunate Vindicator has blown up the Exposition of the Bishop of Meaux as well as the Characters of the Representer which indeed could not be avoided because one must necessarily follow the Fate of the other For the Bishop's Exposition was solemnly pretended to be An Exposition of the Doctrine of the Catholic Church in Matters of Controversie that is to say An Exposition of Popery But the Bishop has expounded many things for the Doctrine of the Catholic Church which other Members of the same Church condemn and so long as the Dispute remains undetermined neither Side is truly what you ought to call Popery And therefore the Bishop should have called his Book An Exposition of his own Private Sentiment concerning the Doctrine of the Catholic Church Thus I say he should have called it or else he should have found out another Vindicator Nay because the greatest Grace that his Doctrine seems now to have from the Church is That it is not censured by the Church The Title should have been a little more wary by running thus An Exposition of the Bishop's Private Sentiment which the Church has not yet censured concerning the Doctrine of the Catholic Church But because in truth the Living Church has begun to censure his Doctrine and they who have censured it are not censured for it The Title should have been yet more warily contrived thus An Exposition of the Bishop's Private Sentiment which Sentiment is not contrary to the express Words of a General Approved Council Then perhaps the Vindicator might have done something in discharge of the Duty of a Vindicator But as the case stands he ought henceforward to change his Name and to write himself the Betrayer of the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition but by no means the Vindicator of it Which himself so well understood that he thought fit to pass over all the Letter of the Defender to the Bishop and he gives this substantial Reason for it Because the Letter concerns not him the Vindicator nor the Doctrine of the Catholic Church which he is to vindicate In good time But the Letter sorely concerned the Bishop and the Doctrine of his Exposition Pag. 8. and therefore if it does not concern the Vindicator you are not to wonder at it because there have been great Changes of late and now the Doctrine of the Bishop's Exposition is one thing and the Doctrine of the Catholic Church is another I may without breach of Modesty say that hitherto I have given the Vindicator a Full Reply And I believe the Reader would be well satisfied that I should drop him here and leave his following Cavils to be confuted by any one that will take the pains to compare him and the Defender together But then this would be a Pretence for another Book and for some boasting that he is not answered A little therefore must be said to what remains Pag. 8. And 1. By many of the Roman Casuists allowing the Defamation of an Adversary by false Accusations as the Defender said in his Table it is so plain by the Book that he meant no more than that they maintained it to be but a Venial Sin that the Vindicator himself has not questioned it and therefore it was a mere Cavil to tax the Defender of Falsifying in this business tho to incourage the Vindicator to do well another time thus much he is to be commended for that he limited his Accusation to the expression of Allowing which he found in the Table This Sir as you here word it is a False Imputation Even where he does ill I am glad that he does no worse But to speak to the thing They that make one of the basest things in nature to be but a Venial Sin cannot reasonably be otherwise understood than that they intend to make it easie for their own Party to commit it And tho they flourish never so fairly with that Rule that No Evil is to be done that Good may come of it yet there are so many little ways amongst them of clearing themselves from Venial Sins that when so foul a Wickedness is made but Venial it can be with no other design than to encourage men to it