the world by reuelation and it presumeth vs taught otherwise that it selfe is diuine sacred Here we beseech you Mai. Hoo. that if as our Reverend Fathers affirme wee may noe otherwise beleeue the Churches them selues but as they agree to the scriptures that by them the true church is to be discerned c. and that onely scriptures sufficientlie warrant the triall of Gods worde what certaintie of saluation wee can haue in anie presuming or motiue by the church if the scripture cānot assure vs that it is the word of God Are not these contradictorie Tell vs therefore if your meaning be not that the authoritie of the church must do that which the scripture cannot doe namelie to assure vs that they are the word of God And our reuerend Fathers say The church can not so assure vs vnlesse we trie it first to be the true church by the scriptures Are not these contradictorie They say Onely Scriptures warrand vs what is the worde of God you say they cannot assure vs of the worde of God but presume vs to be taught that thinge otherwise Are not these contradictorie Haue we not here good cause to suspect the vnderpropping of a popish principle cōcerning the churches authoritie aboue the holy Scripture to the disgrace of the English church If not then recōcile your assertions vnto theirs and shew mercie and trueth vnto our reverend Fathers And therewithal we pray you to expound either by experience or otherwise Whether the worde of God was receaued in the world and beleeued by men by the virtue and authoritie of the witnesses either Prophets or Apostles or the holy church or that such witnesses were not esteemed for the wordes sake and the Church alway approued both by God faithfull men as the same was described commended and ordered by the rule of holy scripture What thinke you of the beautifull feete that bringe glad tydings and of the Kings who for reuerence stopped their mouthes at it The people pricked in harte at Peters preaching And the men of Berea searching the scriptures whether that in all these the testimonie of man as Prophet Apostle or church did authorise the word of God that it was beleeued or the demonstration of the spirituall power of the word it selfe And was not this the meaning of Saint Paule when reiecting letters of cōmendation hee affirmeth that the Corinthians were his epistle written in their heartes which is vnderstood and read of all menne c. Doeth he not preferre the power of the worde testifying of it selfe by the conversion of the heart before all other motiues and by it he him selfe was authorised in their consciences and not it by him Lastlie shew vs where you finde that the scripture presumeth vs taught otherwise c. What thinke you Is it of man or by man or of God that it so presumeth or doe not you presume against the worde of God to set vp mans testimonie when we know that the testimonie of God is greater When the Iewes and the Gentiles did both oppose them selues against the gospel what did it presume vpon was it not of it selfe the two edged sworde pearching into the marrow of the bones the rodde of iron to crush in peeces the Nations and the armour spirituall to bring in subiection euery thought vnto the obedience of the knowledge of God The Church of England professeth this groūd of faith Without the grace of God which is by Christ preventing vs that we will and working togither while we will we are nothing at all able to doe the workes of pietie which are pleasing and acceptable to God You to our vnderstāding write cleane cōtrarie namelie there is in the will of man naturallie that freedome whereby it is apt to take or refuse anie particular obiect whatsoeuer being presented vnto it And a litle after There is not that good which concerneth vs but it hath euidence enough for it self If reason were diligent to search it out Heere we pray your helpe to teach vs how will is apt as you say freelie to take or refuse anie particular obiect what soeuer that reason by diligence is able to find out anie good concerning vs If it bee true that the Church of England professeth that without the preventing and helping grace of God we can will and doe nothing pleasing to God To which beleefe of Englande the scripture accordeth shewing that without the said grace of God we are dead in sinnes and trespasses we are not sufficient of our selues to thinke anie thing It is God which worketh in vs the will and the deede euen of his good pleasure Shew vs therefore howe your positions agree with our church and the scriptures If you say you vnderstande reason and will helpe by the grace of God then tell vs how we may perceaue it by your writing whiche putteth difference betwixt naturall and supernaturall trueth lawes If you meane reason vncorrupted not respecting how in trueth we are by Adams fall perverted may wee not suspect that your whole discourse is subtill and cunning because you pretend the naturall way of finding out lawes by reason to guide the will vnto that which is good pag. 59. 62. 63. c. or at the least friuoulous seeing man hath no such reason without the grace of GOD if you meane without the grace of God and in the state of corruption as in deed all men naturallie nowe are Heere wee desire to be taught how such sayings ouerthrow not our English creed and the holy scripture in this matter and therewithall shewe vs the true meaning of Saint Paule and how he fitteth your discourse in this place namelie when he saith Rom. 8. 7. The wisedome of the flesh is ennimitie against God for it is not subiect vnto the law of God neither in deed can be The Church of England beleeueth Onely for the meritt of our Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christ through faith and not for workes and our merites we are accounted righteous before God You saye The way of supernaturall duetie which to vs he hath prescribed our Sauiour in the Gospell of Saint John doeth note terming it by an excellēcie the worke of God This is the worke of God that you beleeue in him whom he hath sente not that God doeth require nothing at the handes of men vnto happines sauing only a naked beleefe for hope and charitie we may not exclude but that without beleefe all other thinges are as nothing and it is the ground of those other diuine virtues And againe The same things diuine lawe also teacheth as at large we haue shewed it doeth all partes of morall duetie wherevnto we all of necessitie stande bounde in regard of life to come And in another place Euery mans religion is in him selfe the well-spring of all other sound and sincere verities from whence both heere in some sorte
persist They affirme and that constantlie that there is a general errour and defection of the church of Rome foreshewed in the scriptures and therefore cald them Apostataes and matched them with Atheistes seeing it is nowe made manifest to the world that they are departed from the doctrine of Christ his Apostles c. you call them backe and say we gladlie acknowledge them to be of the familie of Iesus Christ and to be helde and reputed a parte of the house of God and a limme of the visible church of Christ. And therefore you are bolde to affirme that we seuer not our selues from the church we were of before In the Church we were we are so still We are here in a streight except you helpe vs out For if we beleeue you we must thinke our reverend Fathers to haue misledd vs all this while either of malice or ignorance if wee beleeue them we must thinke that Mai. Hoo. is verie arrogant and presumptuous to make him self the onelie Rabbi We pray you therefore to reconcile these two iudgemēts that men fall not away to looke back into Egypt or else explane your minde further shew vs some cleere demonstration of that you intende whether you be not sorrie that wee are departed from the vnitie of that Sea or that you thinke they erre not in matters of faith that all these great disputes about the church and bloodie dissentions and conflicts come by ouersight and too great zeale and for want of knowledge in our Reverend Fathers in all those millions of learned men that haue franklie giuen their blood for the detection and departing from that church as from Antichrist and an Apostata And heere wee pray you to shew vs out of divine trueth your rule to discerne a Congregation to bee a member of the visible Church whether whosoeuer holdeth anie one professeth trueth differing from infidelitie may be reputed a member of the visible church and whether you meane by infidelitie nothing els but that which is not taught by the gospell of Iesus Christ and they which holde anie part of that which you call supernaturall trueth that is as we take it of that trueth which men know no otherwise but by the worde of God they are not fallen into an Apostasie c. And heere we craue your iudgement of the Turke how your rule fitteth them For as wee thinke by reading his Alcoran hee holdeth some mayne pointes of christian trueth as namelie these There is one God and that he created all things without labour or wearines and that he preserueth the things created faith is giuen and augmented of God He forbiddeth the adoring of saintes and images affirmeth God to hate and abhorre the arte of Magicke and teacheth the resurrection of all men from the dead Shewe vs now whether the Turke be not of the familie of IESVS Christ. Lastlie we pray you to open vnto vs that seeing you saye the church of Rome is the house of God whether a man continuing in that house and neuer comming out to holde the true beleefe of Christ as we doe in England but renouncing and persecuting it to the death whether such a one may be saued if yea why need we seuer our selues to so great trouble from her grosse and grieuous abhominations if they bee not such as can extinguish our faith to our destruction If no why doe you not ioyne with our Reverend Fathers to abandon that house where there is no saluation Of Gods house it is said It is the grounde pillar of trueth The habitation of God by his spirit and the glorious rest of Christ. In which God loueth to dwell and wherin he hath delight and the same hee will blesse in victualles Priestes and Saintes So that such as be planted in that house shal florish in the courts of our God they shall still bring forth fruite in their age c. Shew vs wee pray you whether these thinges may bee applied to the church of Rome rightlie and essentiallie and what comfort wee may haue by departing from her communion if shee be a parte of the house of God c. and these things we pray you to averre not by humane witnesse but by that which commeth down frō heauen So did Elias Againe out of this article ariseth another noe smal scruple where our church constantlie affirmeth that The visible church is that cōgregation of faithfull people wherein the pure worde of God is preached Wherevpon the Reuerend Fathers of our church publickely teach that The true preaching of the word is an essential note of the church For which cause they interpret the parable of the seede in this sorte God is the husbandman the Preachers of the worde are the seede sowers the seede is the worde of God the grounde is the hearts of men c. And Therefore Christ did sende his Apostles to preach the Gospell that thereby they might be brought to the beleefe of the Church And To this preaching he annexed such force of his holie spirit that it had greater strength and authoritie then all the eloquence then all the wisedome then all the learning then al the pollicie and power of the worlde and that not onely in the Apostles but also in the Preachers who haue restored the pure light of the Gospell in these latter dayes euen in those countries whose Princes and people were professed aduersaries therof vnto which accordeth the holy scriptures calling this preaching A gifte of the grace of God to admonishe euery man and to teach euery man in all wisedome that wee may present euery man perfect in Christ Jesus Which thinges maketh vs much to muse what you meane where you say Sith speach is the verie image whereby the minde and soule of the speaker conveyeth it selfe into the bosome of him that heareth We can not chuse but see great reason wherefore the worde that proceedeth from God who is in him selfe very trueth and life should be as the Apostle to the Hebrewes noteth liuelie and mightie in operation sharper then any two edged sworde Now if in this and the like places we did conceaue that our owne sermons are that strong and forcible worde should we not euen heereby imparte euen the most peculiar glorie of the worde of God vnto that which is not his worde For touching our sermons that whiche giueth them their verie being is the will of man and therefore they oftentimes accordinglie taste too much of that ouercorrupt fountaine from which they come Heere Mai. Hoo. we are hampered with your words because they seeme to vs contrarie to the iudgement of our church We therefore desire you hartilie to resolue vs what you meane in this place by sermons whether it be not all one with that our Fathers call preaching of the word consisting in teaching and exhorting by the worde of God secondlie what you meane by the being of
a sermon whether the Logicall and Dialecticall frame by which men contriue their matter in such and such a forme or that by the gift of the grace of God waying and searching and fitting togither many sentences they seeke out pleasant wordes euery right writing and faithfull wordes and so vtter in their doctrine integritie grauitie and the wholesome worde which can not be reproued If you meane the former then euerie declamation and formal oration in the schooles may be called sermons for these are framed of the meere witt of man if you meane this latter then we thinke you teach contrarie to our church the holy scriptures You say our sermons are not that stronge and forcible worde They saye it is an essentiall note of the true church to haue true preaching of the worde and namelie the preaching of the pure worde of GOD and that this hath such a force as no eloquence wisedome learning pollicie and power of the worlde can match You saye the witt of man giueth our sermons the verie being They say God sent his Apostles that the Preachers are the seede sowers and the seede is the worde of God and that this is done by the gift of the grace of God Heere we beseech you to shewe the iust harmonie of your wordes and theirs and therein to teach vs by sounde demonstration that a man can preach the pure worde of God by his owne naturall witt without a gift supernaturall of the spirit to giue him vtterance and to speak the word as he ought to speake If all that a man preach be the pure worde of God what derogation is it to call such a mans sermons or preachings the strong and forcible worde In euerie being there is as you schollers teach the matter and the forme and that which ioyneth these togither is the efficient Vnto which of these will you applie the witt of man if you say to the matter then our church is against you and sayeth it is the pure worde of God if to the forme as interpretation doctrine and exhortation then the holy scriptures doe tye vnto the gift of the spirit saying That wee haue diuers giftes as the gift of prophecie teaching exhortation and no scripture is of anie priuate interpretation If you make it the efficient then the scripture saith There are diuersities of giftes but the same spirit and there are diuersities of administrations but the same Lord and there are diuersities of operations but God is the same which worketh all in all No man can preach except he bee sente When he ascended he gaue giftes vnto men Here we pray you to teach vs how your speaches consent to these testimonies of our church and holy Scripture or may you not meane that the Sermons of manie nowe a dayes who in stead of the pure word of God doe most curiouslie bring into the pulpitt Poetts Philosophers Rhetoricians Phisitians Schoolemen and whatsoeuer either by finenesse of witt or helpe of arte they thinke may appeare fine smooth to their hearers and winne praise to them selues may you not meane I say that such our sermons haue their being of the meere witt of man or doe you thinke that the sermons of our Reuerend Fathers and more stayed diuines which are verie warie that in all their sermons whatsoeuer they speake may be the true sense of holie Scriptures and according to the proportion of faith seeing they agree not with the familie of Iesus Christ that is at Rome are not therefore the strong and forcible worde of God And heere we pray you to teach vs whether that all doctrine interpretatiō and exhortation which is truelie and meerelie the natural meaning of holy scripture be not the worde of God or that the word is onelie in the letter of the text as of Hebrewe and Greeke or if you will truelie translated and which of these hath the word of God he that alleadgeth the wordes as did the Tempter or he that alleadgeth the true meaninge as did our Saviour Christ Mat. 4. 6. 10. Lastlie shew vs that if all our sermons bee of the witt of man and none the stronge and forcible worde of God whether Romish Babilon may not chalendge our church to wante one essentiall marke as preaching the pure word of God And whether it be possible for the witt of man to giue beeing vnto that which is an essential marke of the church of God and of that which hath greater strength and authoritie then all eloquence wisedome learning policie and power of the worlde And lastlie open vnto vs whether that reverend Father did well who graunteth that the worde of God is not only in writing but in preaching in Coūsels or Doctors Because Christ saith Hee that heareth you heareth mee The Church of England affirmeth that It is not lawful for anie one to take to him selfe the office of preaching publikely or administring the Sacramentes in the church except hee be first lawfullie called and sente to doe these thinges And heerevpon our Reverend Fathers doe not only not defende nor vse anie reasons at all to prooue that women may baptize and therefore would not haue the booke of cōmon prayer touching baptisme in private to be vnderstood to permitt women to baptize but also cōnstantlie affirme that God and well ordered churches forbidd Women to dispence that holy misterie But you Mai. Hoo. haue another kinde of determinatiō where you say Ministeriall power is a marke of separation because it seuereth them that haue it from other men and maketh them a speciall order consecrated vnto the seruice of the most highest in thinges wherewith others may not medle And in another place There is an errour which beguileth many who much intangle both themselues and others by not distinguishing seruices offices and orders ecclesiasticall the first of which three in parte the seconde may be executed by the laytie whereas none haue or can haue the third but the cleargie From the whiche Cleargie you separate Catechistes Exorcistes Readers and Singers c. And in another place you seeme to mainteyne defende the practise of those churches which necessitie requiring allowe baptisme in private to be administred by Women affirming elswhere That diuers reformed churches doe both allow and defende that kinde of Baptisme Heere we desire to knowe what you meane by ministeriall power whether you take it actiuelie as that euerie minister or all Ministers haue power to make an order consecrated to the seruice of God or passiuelie that by their calling they are made to haue the authoritie and power of a Minister or that you vnderstand by it the formall cause of their ministerie by which they differ from al other orders or that you meane the holy vnction and character which the church of Rome giueth in their consecration of priesthoode And this wee desire because we finde our church and Reverend Fathers speaking like
and heereafter more aboundantlie their full ioy and felicitie ariseth because while they liue they are blessed of God and when they dye their workes follow them And yet againe you say I will not dispute whether truely it may not be sayde that poenitent both weeping and fasting are meanes to blott out sinne meanes whereby through Gods vnspeakeable and vndeserued mercie wee obtayne and procure to our selues pardon which attaynement vnto anie gracious benefite by him bestowed the phrase of antiquitie vseth to expresse by the name of merite Heere wee desire to bee resolued how these your assertions can stande with the doctrine and beleef of the church of England Fayth only iustifieth To which the holy Scripture accordeth saying If there had bene a lawe that could haue giuen life surelie righteousnes had bene by the law but the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promise by the fayth of Jesus Christ might be giuen to them that beleeue And againe David declareth the blessednes of the man vnto whom God imputeth righteousnes without workes For if from sound and sincere virtues as you say full ioy and felicitie ariseth and that we all of necessitie stande bounde vnto all partes of morall duetie in regarde of life to come and God requireth more at the handes of men vnto happines then such a naked beleefe as Christ calleth the worke of God alas what shal we poore finful wretches doe who can haue no confidence in the flesh being farre from those sounde and sincere virtues and from manie that we say not all partes of morall dutie in such measure as the holy iust good law of God doeth require them yea our verie righteous workes we finde to be stayned like a filthie cloth when we cōpare them vnto that absolute righteousnes which is indeed pure vnspotted before the eyes of God therefore we clayme nothing by any duetie we doe or can doe or anie virtue which wee finde in our selues but onelie by that naked faith which is the work of God in vs and maketh vs beleeue in him whom he hath sente and by his stripes onelie we hope to be healed Tell vs therefore by sounde and plaine demonstration what wee may trust to whether the English beleefe be imperfect without some necessarie additament whether you thinke that not faith alone but faith hope and loue be the formall cause of our righteousnes whether a man that hath faith can also doe all the works of the law and so make vp that which is wāting in his naked faith or that if he cannot but falleth into sinne seuen times yea sometimes into great sinnes whether his faith may not saue him Lastlie whether there bee not other sufficient causes to induce a christian to godlines honestie of life such as is the glorie of God our Father his great mercies in Christ his loue to vs example to others but that we must do it to merit or to make perfitt that which Christ hath done for vs. And lastlie shew vs that phrase of antiquitie whether it were in the Apostles time among the sounder christians or in what time immediatlie following or doe you not closelie make the popish doctrine of meritt by workes at the least to be tollerable to the disgrace of our English creede The church of England professeth that Good workes the frutes of faith and following the iustified cannot abide the seueritie of Gods iudgement and that The workes which are done before the grace of Christ are not onely not acceptable to God but also haue the nature of sinne You say The most certayne token of evident goodnes is If the generall perswasion of all men doe so account it And againe Only mans obseruation of the lawe of his nature is Righteousnes only mans transgression sinne Gods verie commaundements in some kinde as namelie his precepts comprehended in the law of nature may otherwise be knowen then onelie by scripture and that to doe them howsoeuer we know them must needes be acceptable in his sight Here we desire to be instructed howe the goodnes of these actions done by the light of nature are to be vnderstoode eyther simplie in them selues as nature onelie declareth and teacheth or as men following the light of nature iudge of them and so doe them if you answere onelie as nature teacheth without regarde of man doeing according to nature then can we not vnderstande your discourse which seemeth to vs to teach that by doeing such operations of goodnes as nature teacheth though he haue no further teachinge it is righteousnes and pleaseth God If you meane this second then I pray you in what sence can you call that righteousnes in man which our Church calleth sinne and doe you not establish the Romish doctrine of pura naturalia and workes of congruitie And if that be true which you say that men doing such workes be acceptable in Gods sight doe you not make the Church of England to holde an errour when they say they are not acceptable to God The church of England professeth that Works of supererogation cannot bee taught without arrogancie and wickednes And you say God approued much more then he commaundeth Open vnto vs then that seeing you seeme to teach that the order and course of all things supernaturall naturall sensible and reasonable is a diuine lawe and so by it he commaundeth accordinge to euerie kinde and that in the former articles you appeare to vs to scatter the prophane graines of poperie whether we may not iustlie iudge that in thus speaking you sow the seede of the doctrine whiche leadeth men to those arrogant workes of supererogation If not shew your own meaning and howe you esteeme of this Article of our beleefe The Church of England holdeth that Christ onely being the immaculate Lambe was without sinne and that we which are baptized and regenerated in him doe all offende in manie things You say Although we cannot bee free from all sinne collectiuelie in such sorte that no parte thereof shalbe found inherent in vs yet distributiuelie at the least all great and greeuous actuall offences as they offer themselues one by one both may and ought to be by all meanes auoyded So that in this sense to be preserued from all sinne is not impossible Heere we demaunde to be informed that if all offende in manie things and to say otherwise be a lye as our English creede affirmeth how your saying can be true that it is possible to avoyde all great and greeuous sinnes And what manie things they bee whereof the scripture speaketh Whether it meaneth not actual offences great and greeuous but that some may be excepted in regard of great sinnes or whether you meane that it is possible for all christians to be preserued from all great sinnes and if so why should it not bee as possible from all small offences and if from small and great why doe
we not keepe our robe pure and without spot vntill the comming of Christ and so bee iustified more and more by our works as the popish Cannons teach but pray by Christes commaundement euery day Forgiue vs our trespasses The Church of England beleeueth that Predestination vnto life is the eternal purpose of God whereby before the foundations of the world were layde hee constantlie decreed by his counsell vnto vs vnknowen to deliuer from the curse destruction them whom he chose in Christ out of mankinde as vessells made vnto honour through Christ to bring them to eternall saluation Wherevppon they who are indowed with so excellent benefit of God are called according to his purpose and that by his spirit working in a fitt time But you Mai. Hoo. seeme to vs to affirme contrarie when you say If anie man doubt how God should accept such prayers in case they be opposite to his will or not graunt them if they be according to that him selfe willeth Our aunswer is that such sutes God accepteth in that they are conformable to his generall inclination which is that all men might be saued yet alwayes he graunteth them not for so much as there is in God a more priuate occasioned will which determineth the contrarie Heere we begge your ayde to make manifest vnto vs howe God eternallie predestinateth by a constant decree them whom he calleth and saueth as our Church professeth and yet hath as you say a generall inclination that all men might be saued Whether he foresaw not something that occasioned his will otherwise so that he elected not all but onely them whom he calleth and saueth or that of his generall inclination he elected all men but some more privatelie occasioned him in time to alter his will and to refuse them or that some men gaue God occasiō that he saueth them though he neuer decreed it before the foundations of the world What meant the blessed Apostle where he sayeth Whom he predestinated them also he called and whom he called them also he iustified c. Is this to bee vnderstoode of a constant decree as we say or of an inclination Hee sayeth God worketh all thinges after the counsell of his owne will Is this to be vnderstood that vpon occasion sometimes hee either altereth his counsell or decreeth something which hee had not thought vpon before Saint Iames saith that In God there is no variablenes nor shadowe of turning Is not this more then a variablenes or shadow of turning to incline one way and upon occasion to decree another Doe not these wordes of yours giue some place vnto chaunce and fortune Doe they not make GOD as a man not of an all-sufficient knowledge wisedome and counsell but inclinable some one way till by occasion he finde a more better way Where is that God you speake of in your first booke of whom and through whom and for whom are all things And where is that law by which he worketh which you there call aeternall and therefore can haue no shew or colour of mutabilitie Haue we not cause to feare that the wittie schoolemen haue seduced you and by their conceited distinctions made you forget That you are neither able nor worthie to open and looke into the booke of Gods law by which he guideth the worlde And yet you will say There is in God an occasioned will Good Mai. Hoo. helpe vs heere and shewe vs howe we may thinke that you incline not to the errour of poperie touching workes forseene and that you fauour our churches beleefe The Churche of Englande doeth confesse That the church of Christ is a companie of faithfull people among whom the pure worde of God is preached the Sacramentes rightlie administred according to Christes institution c. and that the church of Rome hath erred not onely in maners ceremonies but also in matters of faith Which by the Reverend Fathers of our Church is expounded thus Without Christ the church is no church neither hath anie right or claime without his promise nor anie promise without his worde The church of Rome being as it is now vtterlie voyd of Gods word is as a lanterne without light We haue departed from that church which they haue made a denne of theeues and in which they haue left nothing sound or like to a church which thē selues did cōfesse to haue erred in manie things euen as Lot in olde time out of Sodom or Abraham out of Chaldea c. The generall error and defection of the popish Sinagogue frō Christ his true Church foreshewed in the scriptures is now manifest to the world by dissention from Christ and his holy Apostles doctrine and from the doctrine of the churches by the Apostles foūded And for this cause they call the heresie of that Romish church Apostasia Romanensium ab Ecclesia The Apostasie of the Romish rabble frō the church And they cal the Pope Apostatam Antichristum an Apostata Antichrist And binde vp in one bundle Idolaters superstitious persons papistes and Atheistes constantlie affirming that among English christians no other thing is ment by the name of papistes then heretickes and traytours Antichristians and Apostataes enemies to God their Prince and their countrie Now we finde in you these peremptorie affirmations With Rome we dare not cōmunicate concerning sundrie her grosse grieuous abhominations yet touching those maine partes of christian trueth wherein they constantlie still persist we gladlie acknowledge them to be of the familie of Iesus Christ. And a little before We hope that to reforme our selues if at anie time we haue done amisse is not to seuer our selues from the church wee were of before In the church we were and we are so still And in another place you would haue men To acknowledge that it is due to the church of Rome to be held reputed a part of the house of God and a limme of the visible church of Christ. And your principall reason seemeth to be because you say That whiche separateth vtterlie That which cutteth off cleane from the visible church of Christ is plaine Apostasie direct deniall vtter reiection of the whole christian faith as farre as the sonne is professedly different from infidelitie Heere you seeme vnto vs to come foorth as an other Elias to bring againe the people vnto the God of their Fathers They say that the church of Rome hath erred not onely in manners but also in matters of fayth You you call thē backe and say Sundrie grosse and grieuous abhominations They say that the church of Rome as it is nowe is vtterlie voyde of Gods word as a lanterne without light and that it is a denne of theeues in which they haue left nothing soūd or like a church but is like Sodom c. You call them backe and say That they haue mayne partes of christian trueth wherein they constantlie
to holy scripture to vse plaine good and sensible termes to note out the difference of a ministers estate from other mens and yours seemeth to carie another kinde of stile more befitting the glorie of the Romish character then the simplicitie of our ministerie Our church saieth they must bee called that preach publicklie you say a Catechist or whom wee finde in aūcient time to haue bene such as Clemens and Origine in Alexandria as to whom the people came to heare the preaching of the word of God is none of the order of the Cleargie meaning as wee think without this ministeriall power We pray you thē to shew vs whether you meane by ministeriall power Cleargie or order that which our church meaneth by calling if you doe then we see not how you and they agree that you allow a Catechist which is an office to preach the worde which is not of the Ecclesiasticall order and as we say hath no calling therevnto and our church saieth that it is not lawfull c. Againe our Church saieth that it is not lawfull to administer the Sacramentes without that calling and that God and well ordered Churches forbidd Women to baptize you as wee thinke contrarie to our church maintaine such churches as allow the private baptisme by Women in case of necessitie and you saye diuers reformed churches allow and defende such baptisme Heere wee intreate you to declare the agreement of these sayings and whether because you say that the speciall order you speake of is consecrated vnto the seruice of the highest in thinges wherewith others may not medle your meaning be that lay people in case of necessitie may medle with those thinges which our church saieth is not lawfull without calling or that because you would haue the ministeriall power to be a marke and character you giue libertie to preaching baptizing as to certaine seruices and that the character and indeleble order hath nothing to it selfe peculiar but the making of the body of Christ in the Sacrament and offering him vp in sacrifice to his Father that the laitie women and catechist may not medle with that And heere wee desire to vnderstande whence you fett that worthie distinction the ignorance whereof beguileth manie and that you would declare the same by holy scripture bring vs one pregnant proofe to shew the errour of our church in affirming preaching and ministring without calling to bee vnlawfull or else declare the exception either by scripture or by some order or interpretation published by our church or some of our Reuerend Fathers which also may haue their harmonie with the sayings of the Reuerend Fathers by vs before rehearsed And lastlie whether that you in these three places are not cōtrarie to your self or that you make not a deluding proposition which contayneth a generall prohibition without limitation which yet is not generall but must haue exception And if you place Readers as distinct from cleargie what may we thinke you esteeme of our reading ministers are they no cleargie men It is an Article of our faith that The Sacramentes instituted of Christ are not onely markes of christian profession but rather certayne testimonies and effectuall signes of grace and of the good will of God towards vs by which hee doeth worke invisiblie in vs and doeth not onelie stirre vp but also confirme our faith towardes him selfe Which by the reverend Fathers of our Church is interpreted thus Sacraments are visible wordes seales of righteousnes and tokens of grace The soule of man not the creature of bread or water receaue the grace of God c. The grace of God is not in the visible signes but in the soule The substance of all Sacramentes is the worde of God which S t Paule calleth verbum reconciliationis the worde of Attonement this worde is the instrument of remissiō of sinne The Sacraments are the seales affixed vnto the same the Priest is the meane And speaking of all the faithfull to bee one bodye all endewed with one spirit they further say This marvelous coniunction and incorporation is first begonne and wrought by faith c. Afterward the same corporation is assured vnto vs and increased in our baptisme c. And for that we are verie vnperfect of our selues and therefore must dailie proceede forwarde that we may grow vnto a perfect man in Christ Therfore hath God appointed that the same incorporation should bee often renewed and confirmed in vs by the vse of the holy misteries wherein must bee considered that the said holie misteries doe not beginne but rather continue confirme this incorporation Heere wee demaunde howe it may appeare vnto vs that you broach not a new doctrine diuers and cōtrarie to our beleefe in Englande When you say that The Sacramentes chiefest force and virtue consisteth in this that they are heauenlie ceremonies which God hath sanctified and ordayned to be administred in his church First as markes to know when God doeth imparte the vitall or sauing grace of Christ vnto all that are capable thereof And secondlie as meanes conditionall which God requireth in them vnto whom he imparteth grace And in another place It is a braunch of beleefe that Sacramentes are in their place no lesse required then beleefe it selfe For when our Lord Saviour promiseth eternall life is it any otherwise then as hee promised restitution of health vnto Naaman the Sirian namely with this condition washe and be cleane And in another place you say that both the Worde and Sacraments haue generatiue force and virtue By which your wordes we are greatlie amazed that our Church hath left out in her creede and the Reverend Fathers haue not taught vs that which is as you say the chiefest force and virtue of the Sacraments Where finde you that God ordained the Sacramentes to tell vs when God giueth grace and that they are meanes conditionall and as necessarie as faith Teach vs we pray you by holy scripture these three chief virtues of the Sacraments The furthest that they say as we gather is to make them seales of assurance by which the spirit worketh invisiblie to strengthen our faith and they seeme to square their faith by holy scripture which propoūdeth Abraham to be an example of the true way of iustifying a paterne to all the children of God namelie that he was first iustified by faith and after receaued the Sacrament as a signe to bee a seale of the righteousnesse of his faith Shew therefore whether we ought not to goe further then our church or holy scripture vnlesse we will leaue out the cheefest virtue of the Sacramentes Moreouer they say the grace of God is not in the visible signes you say they are meanes cōdicionall they say that grace which they cal this marvelous coniunction and incorporation is first begon and wrought by faith and afterwarde is assured and increased by the Sacramentes you say