multitude of the Land yea of a greater power then ever Iesus Christ himselfe had at least then ever he exercised For as dare Râ—…gem argues a greater power then esse Râ—…gem as hee that buildeth an house hath more honour then the house Hebr. 3. 3. so to nominate and appoint who shall have power to umpire in matters of conscience and of God * to determine what shall be preached and what not what shall be beleeved and what not is a branch of a greater root of power then the exercise of the power that is committed to others in this behalfe Now though Iesus Christ had a power and was authorized by God to be a Law-giver himselfe unto his Churches and Saints in their spirituall Republike yet it is hard to prove that he ever he invested any other with such a power His Apostles themselves were no Lords over the faith of the Saints nor had they anie power or authoritie to impose any thing upon men as †necessarie either to be beleeved or practised but what they had in expresse commission and charge from Jesus Christ himselfe to impose upon such termes c. The summe of this large passage is that there is not onelie an improbabilitie but absolute impossibilitie that the Parliament should have any power at all to enact Lawes and Statutes in matters of Religion church-government Gods worship or service because the people who elect them have no such power and so an impossibilitie of deriving any such authoritie to them and to affirme the contrarie is not onely to awake the eyes of jealousie upon them but exceedingly destructive to and undermining of not onely their power but honour peace and safetie also Whether this be not directly to undermine the authority of Parliaments and temporal Magistrates in all church-affairs and matters of Religion contrarie to your late Covenant and Protestation and that in the most transcendent maner that ever any have hitherto attempted in print let all wise men judg I am sory such ill passages should fall from so good a pen But to give a short Answer to this extravagant discourse First this objection might be made against the generall Assemblies Parliament Kings of the Israelites who a were chosen by the people yet they made Lawes and Statutes concerning Religion and Gods worship with his approbation without any such exception as I have elsewhere proved Secondly God himself as I formerly â—…uched used the ministry assistance of Cyrus Artaxerxes Durius with other heathen Princes and Magistrates for the building of his Temple and advancement of his worship for which they made Decrees Statutes notwithstanding this objected reason reflects more upon them and their electors then on such who are Christians by externall profession Thirdly most Christian Kings and Magistrates in the World even those who claime to be hereditary as the yet continued formes of their Coronations and instalments manifest come in by the peoples election as well as such members of Parliament who are eligible yet you cannot without disloialty and absurdity deny them authoritie in matters of Religion and Church-government Fourthly your selfe doe not onely grant but argue b That every private man hath yea ought to have power to elect and constitute his own Minister and no doubt you will grant that private men have power likewise to set up independent Congregations which have authority to prescribe such Covenants Lawes and Rules of Government Discipline Worship as themselves think most agreeable to the Word If then they may derive such an Ecclesiasticall authority to independent Ministers and Churches why not as well to Parliaments and Synods likewise by the self-same reason Fiâ—…hly it is cleare by sundry instances in Scripture and your owne Text that God doth oft times make use of unsanctified persons and the rude multitude whom you so much under-value to advance his glory propagate his Gospel promote his Worship vindicate his Truth and edifie his Church He can poure a spirit of prophesie upon c a Baalam a Saul a Gamaliel a persecuting High-Priest he can make a d Judas an Apostle yea send him to preach and build his Church as well as a Peter Wee read in the Evangelists that none were so forward as the vulgar e multitule to beleeve follow professe Christ and embrace the Gospel though many of them did it out of sinister ends Therefore they may well have power to chuse such persons who shall and may make Lawes to promote the Gospel and Government of the Church of Christ Sixthly those who have no skill at all in Law Physick or Architecture have yet judgment and reason enough to make choice of the best Lawyers Physitians Architects when they need their help Those who are unfit or unable to be members of Parliament themselves as most of the electors are have yet had wisdom enough in all ages and especially at this present to elect the most eminent ablest men for such a service Those who are unmeet to be Kings Magistrates Commanders or Ministers have yet skill enough to chuse able persons for such offices power to delegate to them such Parliamentary Royall Magisteriall Pastorall authority as is necessary for their severall offices which those who elected them never had actually but onely originally or virtually in them not to use but derive them unto others why then may not our free-holders who have voices in electing the members of our Parliaments and the Commonalty of the Land whom you scandalously terme the vilest and most unworthy of men though there be a degree of vulgar people viler and unworthier then they in all respects who have no votes in such elections have sufficient authority in them to elect and nominate such fitte persons who by virtue of such nomination or election shall have right and power to enact Lawes Statutes in matters of Religion Worship and Church-government not dissonant from Gods Word to which themselves and others by Gods owne ordinance must submit If the common people who neither are nor can be Parliaments * Emperors Kings Judges Magistrates Ministers have yet a lawful power to make others such by their bare election to give them such authority and power as themselves never actually were or can be possessors of then why by the self-same reason may they not likewise delegate a lawfull Ecclesiasticall legislative authority in church-affairs to their elected Parliamentary and Synodall Members which was never actually in themselves as well as Mr * Goodwin delegate the power of determining who should be fit persons to receive the Sacrament and to become members of his independent Congregation to eight select substitutes which was never actually vested in himselfe nor transferrible thus to others by any Law of God or man why may not a man bring an ecclesiastical or spiritual extraction out of a secular root contrary to your Paradox as * well as a Râ—…gall Magisteriall Parliamentall Ministeriall extraction out of a
you meane it of any other light that is truely such we blesse God for it and desire to walke brotherly and unanimously in it In the seventh he grants that the Law of Nature which instructs men to unite themselves into one Nationall State or civill Government doth likewise teach them to joine themselves into subject themselves unto one Nationall Church and to Nationall Synods Parliaments in point of church-government in which every particular man hath his Vote though not in proper person which hee objects is necessarie but I deny since all cannot possibly assemble yet in their deputies Knights Burgesses or selected Commissioners and though it bee tâ—ue that Christ hath not given Magistrates such absolute authority over mens consciences as bodies as you object yet hee hath enjoyned us to bee * subject to the higher powers and to every lawfull ordinance of man not repugnant to his Word EVEN FOR CONSCIENCE SAKE and THE LORDS SAKE too For my passage That there is no example of gathering independent Congregations not of Infidels but of men already converted to and setled in the Christian Faith unlesse derived from the private conventicles of Arrians Novatians Donatists and other Hereticks who yet wâ—re not independent among themselves it is not a bitter speech as you phrase it but a true one and onely bitter to you because undeniable For as it was the * common practice of those seducing Hereticks Sectaries to gather private Conventicles of their own and labour to draw other orthodox Christians from their proper Ministers to incorporate themselves into their private separated congregations as Historians informe us So no such practice of alluring and stealing away other Pastors sheep from their proper Shepheard who first coverted them to and edified them in the faith and grace of Christ can be produced but only in these Hereticks and Sectaries whose practice your Independents imitate As for those private conventicles as he phraseth them for which he saith I may blesse God that I was remembred in them with tears when others durst not name me as I do really blesse God for them and those who remembred me effectually in them so I dare not stile them Conventicles in an ill sense since not †such by Law being only lawfull Assemblies of private Christians to seek unto God by prayer fasting upon extraordinary occasions which all good Christians cannot but approve But all these meetings were farre from being then stiled reputed Independent Churches or having any affinity with them so as they make nothing for his cause 8. To the eighth Quere he gives a negative Answer First in generall next in particular to some instances First he grants that there was a Nationall Church yea Nationall assemblies Parliaments determining church-affaires of the Jewes but these saith he cannot be a pattern for us now because the covenant of the Gospell is not made with any one particular Nation as with the Jewes but to all Nations that embrace the Gospel and beleeve in Christ you have no promise nor prophesie of any Nation to be holy to God but the Jewes Nation when they shall bee called againe To which I reply first That Independents have not the least precept or example for any solemne Covenant made betwixt God and men to walke in the wayes of God c. but onely * in the old Testament and Church of the Israelites and that no private congregationall but publâ—…ke Nationall covenant prescribed by the supreme temporall Magistrate and Assembly not by the Priests or private Synagogues yea the principall precepts presidents for publike or private fasts sanctifying the Sabbath c. you likewise derive from the old Testament and that Church why then should not their Nationall Church be a pattern for us and you to imitate as well as their Nationall covenant fasting sabbath-keeping the Church of God being all one as it is a Church both under the old Teastament and new and the pattern of it under the Law a better pesident for the Church under the Gospel of which it was a type and fore-runner then the pattern of the Tabernacle shewed in the Mount so frequent in your Lips and Books a president for your Independent Modell to which it hath no analogy 2. This reason is most absurd and false the Covenant of the Gospel extending not onely to particular persons but to * all Nations and people whatsoever who are both prophesied and promised to become Christs own inheritance possession people spouse church and to be an HOLY NATION A PECVLIAR PEOPLE c. to the Lord in infinite Texts both of the old and new Testament which I wonder the Respondent should either not see or forget being ten thousand fold more cleare and visible then his Independent platforme which few or none can yet espy in Scripture History or Politiques 2. He addes that I cannot shâ—…w any Nation every member whereof is qualified sufficiently to make up a church which is Christs body unlesse I will take in Drunkards Whore-masters c. to be members of a church whereas the Word saith they must be visible Saints and this cannot be avoided in a Nationall church I answer that I dare not be wiser then my Master Christ who informes me that there will and must be alwayes in the visible church on earth be it Nationall parochiall presbyteriall or congregationall * goats among the sheep chaffe among the wheat which must grow together â—…ill the harvest at the end of the world to wit the day of judgment good fish mixed with the bad in the churches Net 2. I finde a a Judas a Devill among the Apostles many b grosse sinners idolaters and corruptions in the Jewish church many abuses Epicures Drunkards Whâ—…re-masters L bertines uncleanâ—… persons and false Teachers in the churches of Galatla Ephesus Colosse Pergamus Smyrna Thyatira and Laodicea yet the Scripture expresly stiles them c the body and churches of Christ and reputes such members though corrupt ones of those Churches who doe not actually cease to be members when excommunicated or suspended for a season after they are baptized and professe the Christian faith nor did any separate from these churches though they had some corruptions and evill members For you therefore to separate from and unchurch such Nationall or Parochial churches which have some such members in them is to unchurch all churches both in the old the new Testament and world it self yea your own churches too 3. The Scripture is expresse d that many are called but few chosen and saved that all must be compelled to come into the church though they want the wedding-garment There never was nor shall be here on earth any one visible church compacted wholly of reall elected Saints without any mixture of Reprobates such a church we shall meet with onely in heaven I am sure you can gather none such on earth 4. Are there no corrupt or drunken members in your independent churches
they establish be not directly against Gods Word nor pernicious to our soules though not altogether such as we could wish yet we ought contentedly to submit unto it without opposition If contrary to the Word we must then 〈◊〉 submit thereto for the present and expect a redresse in Gods due time But if it be such a Government and Discipline under which we may freely enjoy the sincere and powerfull preaching of the Word the due administration of the Sacraments and all other Ordinances of God necessary for our salvation and edification as we may doubtlesse do under a Presbytery and that government our pious Parliament intends to settle we ought cordially and cheerfully to submit thereto yea thankfully to embrace and blesse God for it and can neither waiwardly oppugne nor refuse submission to it without arrogancy contumacy and apparent schisme As for his question concerning my owne and follow-brethrens sufferings which we deeme our Honour not our Shame I answer that none of us suffered for opposing writing or speaking against the Bishops legall authority or any ceremonies established in our Church by Act of Parliament but onely against their pretended divine right to their Episcopall Lordly power diametrally contrary to Scripture Fathers Councels the best Protestant and Popish Authors the * Statutes of our Realm and against their Innovations in doctrine discipline ceremonies canons c. contrary to the Lawes of the land Articles and Homilies of our Church as the Parliament hath resolved them as all our Books demonstrate and Dr Bastwicke in direct termes in the Preface of his Flagellum And therefore it could be neither pride arrogance nor schisme but meer conscience and duty in us to oppose them in these their usurpations and innovations only contrary to the Laws of God and the Realme If he and his would containe themselves within these our bounds our Church should enjoy more peace their persons more honour then now they are likely to gaine by opposing prejudicating both the Parliaments and Synods proceedings though never so pious consciencious religious 3. His pretended contradiction of the third Quere to the first is formerly answered I shall onely adde that things may be consonant to the * generall Rules of Gods Word though not precisely prescribed in it All Independent Ladies Gentlewomen and you I hope will grant that their different fashions habits colours attires are all agreeable to Gods Word if modest and warranted by this generall precept 1 Tim. 2. 9. Let women adorn themselves in modest apparel though not particularized in the Text So may a church-government or Dresse be consonant to Scripture though not precisely delineated or enjoyned by it 4. To the fourth he gives no answer at all but bids me prove it which I have done already in my Independency examined till it be disproved 5. To the fifth he grants that Independency will overthrow all Nationall Churches and Synods and the two Independent Brethren assure us in their Reply to A. S p. 111 that in time it cannot but overthrow all other sorts of Ecclesiasticall governments Is it not then a turbulent dangerous schismaticall unquiet that I say not insufferable Government by your owne confessions which will admit no equall nor corrivall nor yet any Nationall Church Synod Parliament Prince or temporall Magistrate to exercise any Ecclesiasticall Legislative or Magisteriall authority over any of their Conventicles members persons liberties estates much lesse over their consciences as they are Christians Will any Parliament State or Nation think you suffer such a Government to take root among them which will un-King un-Parliament un-church un-Nation them altogether and make each severall congregation an absolute Monarchy Church Republick Nation within it selfe depending on subordinate wholly to it selfe as if it and they were no part or members of the publike The Lord preserve us from such a dividing and overturning Government As for his invectives against the Formality Tyranny and enslaving of mens judgments in the Presbyteriall way as inconsistent with spirituall liberty and State priviledges they are meere groundlesse calumnies to draw an odium on it some of your male-contented party professing they would rather set up Lordly Episcopacy which they have abjured then it whereas these aspersions suit better with your independent modell which is more rigid uncharitable unsociable Papall tyrannicall Anti-monarchicall Anti-synodicall yea Anti-parliamentall as I have elsewhere manifested then any other church-government whatsoever For my pretended bitter expressions they are so suitable to the effects and reall consequences of this New way as you stile it that I could not expresse my self in other language without injury to the truth and if any of my best Friends who stood by me in my sufferings deem themselves injured or reproached by them as you pretend though none of them have yet complained to me it is I hope onely scandalum acceptum non datum and I presume my Friends are so ingenuous as not to be offended with me for * reproving only their errors with ingenuous freedom in which I manifest my self their greatest Friend because I neither spare nor flatter them in their mistakes However though I really honour all my Christian Friends as well Independent as Presbyteriall whom you most scandalously traduce as Episcopall and time-servers heretofore yet I preferre the * truth of God the peace and safety of my Native bleeding dying Church and Countrey now much endangered by our unhappy divisions before all Friends or earthly comforts whatsoever As for your pretended unsubjection of Presbyterian Synods and Churches to the Parliament in setling Ecclesiasticall matters I neither know nor plead for any such and our present Assembly being both appointed directed by and submitting all their determinations wholly to the Parliament as they are obliged both by Orders Protestation Covenant and professe they ought to doe armes me sufficiently against any such improbable untrue surmise 6. To the sixth Quere he returnes no answer but plainly yeelds that there was never any Independent Church in any age or Nation whatsoever totally converted to the christian faith till this present nor any one Author that maintained it till Mr Ainsworth a Separarist from whom the Apologists professe their dissent in some things As for any reverend godly persons who now contend for this new Modell whose piety eminecy make their errors not lesse false but farre more dangerous infectious though I reverence their persons yea judgments too in other things yet I cannot subscrib to them in this new dangerous Bypath wch is not yet so beaten as to deserve the name of Christs Road-way For the new supposed light discovered in these dayes touching church-government if you meane it onely of your Independency which you borrowed from the Brownists or Low-countrey Anabaptists the first inventors of this Government I doubt when brought out to the light and examined by the word of light it will for the most part prove but twilight * if not darknesse If
but onely reall visible Saints are there no usurers oppressors corrupt dealers covetous proud malicious uncharitable censorious persons no apparent hypocrites or dissemblers yea are there not many sinnes and corruptions in the best the choicest of all your members who cannot depart away or quite separate themselves from their * own bosome corruptions as there is and will be in the best of men during their mortality If your Independent congregations consist of such members as these of men subject to like passions sinnes infirmities as others in Presbyteriall churches what then is become of this your reason and principall ground of Independency or rather Separation or Brownism its ancient proper title you may lay it up in Lavander for another world but can make no use of it in this where you cannot so much as dream of a church of reall Saints without any mixture of corruption And therefore rather then separate or leave us in a Pâ—…lt because you cannot have your wills in all things you should with blessed Paul as tender-conscienced no doubt as any of you and a lawfull pattern for your imitation * to the Iew become as Iewes that you might gain the Iewes to them that are under the Law as under the Law that you might gaine them that are under the Law to them that are without Law as being not without Law to God but under the Law to Christ that you might gaine them who are without law To the weake you should become as weake that you might gain the weak yea be made all things to all men that you might by all meanes gaine some Which how farre you in your new way are from let all men Judge 3. For his answers to that of Acts 15. all ages churches till this present have held it both an expresse warrant and president for the lawfulnesse usefulness of Nationall and Provinciall Synods to determine differences in Religion which particular churches persons cannot decide and making necessary Canons for church-affaires neither can all his shifts elude it To his first and second reasons or rather evasions I answer it is clear by Act. 15. 2. that the church of Antioch it selfe could not decide the question nor Paul nor Barnabas satisfactorily determine it so farre as to quiet all parties and therefore they sent Delegates to the Apostles and Elders at Hierusalem there to decide it None is so ignorant but knowes that there are many controversies now on foot concerning doctrine discipline and church-government which no particular congregations nay hardly an whole Synod and Parliament together are sufficient to settle and determine therefore there is a kinde of necessity of Nationall Synods as well as of Parliaments whence all ages churches have used them To his third reason I reply that it is evident by expresse words vers. 2. 5. 6. 7. 10. 19. 20. 24. that the principall end why the Apostles went up to Hierusalem and why this Synod assâ—…mbled was not to prove the false Apostles lyars as he affirmeth but to debate and consider THIS QVESTION AND MATTER whethâ—…r â—…he Genâ—…les ought â—…o becâ—…rcumci sâ—…d To his fourth I say that though this meeting was occasional yet it iâ—… a sufficient warrant for generall meetings which are usuaâ—…ly called only upon speciall occasions of moment In it there was a generall assembling of all the Apostles Elders and Brethren at Hierusalem where there were then divers particular congregations as our Assembly long since resolved from Acts 2. 6. 41 42 46 47. c. 4. 4. c. 5. 14 15 16 42. c. 6. 1. to 9. c. 8. 2 3 4. c. 11. 1 2. c. 12. 12 13. c. 21. 17 18 23 22. which if Independents deny then they must prove that all the Apostles and Elders at Hierusalem were Pastors but of oneand the self-same individuall congregation and then what becomes of their Independent churches which have no Apostle and onely one Pastor but scarce any Elders in them who upon this speciall and some other publike occasions met all together and that not to advise onely but determine and resolve as is evident by vers 6. to 32. c. 16. 4. c. 21. 25. which compared with the Texts of the old Testament in the Margin of my Quere where we finde frequent Nationall generall Assemblies Synods or Parliaments if I may so stile them among the Israelites prescribed appointed by God and no wayes contradicted revoked under the Gospel determining †all Ecclesiasticall controversies setling ordering all church-affaires matters concerning the Arke Temple Sacrifices Passeover Priests Nationall covenants Fasting-dayes Festivalls suppressions of Idolatry false-Worship Reliques of Idolatry and the like are an impregnable evidence of the lawfulnesse of Nationall Synods Parliaments Assemblies in all Christian Kingdomes Republikes upon the like occasions and that they are endued with equivalent authority there being no one Text in the old or new Testament nor any shadow of reason but meeâ—… shifts or obsâ—…inacy of spirit against publike govetment order and authority to controll it If any pretend they doe it onely out of consciâ—…nce if they will but seriously gage their owne deceitfull hearts I feare their conscience will prove but wilfulnesse having neitheâ—… precept preâ—…dent nor right reason to direct it So as I may truely 〈◊〉 his own calumny against me on him and his that his and their own name will or opinion is their onely argument against this shining truth which all ages Churches have acknowledged ratified practised without the least dispute 9. To my ninth Quere and arguments in it he returnes nothing worthy Reply but upon this Petitio principii or begging of the thing disputed that the Scripture and Apostles have prescribed a set forme of Government in all after â—…ges for the Churches of Christ which he neither can nor endevours to prove and that Churches in the Apostles dayes were Independent though doubtlesse all Churches were then subject to the Apostles Lawes Ordeâ—…s Edicts Decisions though no immediate Ministers or Pastors of them as appeares by their Epistles to them therefore not Independent so as my arguments hold firme and his answers weak As for his retorted argument That the Scriptures were writ in the infancy of the Church Therefore wiser and better Scriptures may be writ now it is a blasphemous and absurd conclusion they being all writ by the spirit and inspiration of God himselfe the very * Aâ—…cient of dayes who hath neither infancy nor imperfection as the Church hath To his second objection that I would needs mak a Nationall Church State more perfect understanding and wise then a congregationall I fâ—…are are not to averre itâ—… since warranted by * direct Scriptuâ—…e and since your selves must grant that the Church under the Law was more perfect then that before it the Church under the Gospell more perfect then under the Law and the Churches under the Gospel at the end of the Apostles dayes when furnished with more divine knowledge Scriptures Gospels Officers and rules of Faith Manners
Discipline more compleat and perfect then at their beginning to preâ—… No man doubts that though a * new-born infant and Christian have all the parts and members of a man and Saint yet they have not so much perfection understanding knowledg judgment strength of grace or spirituall wisdome as grown men and Christians An aged experienced growne Minister Christian is more compleat and perfect then a new converted †Novice or Babe in grace Ergo a growne and Nationall Church then one but in the Embryo Your Independent Churches in their primitive infancy when they had but two or three members onely in them and wanted both Elders Deacons and other necessary church-officers as Mr Sympsons church first did I am certain in your own opinion were not so complete and mature as you intended to make them afterwards by degrees a Village is not so complete a Republike or Corporation as a City nor a City as a †Kingdom not a Family as a County not a Consistory as a Synod nor a couâ—…t of Aldermen as a common-couâ—…cell not that as a Parliament Therefore an Independent singular congregation not so complete as a Nationall church being oft enforced to pray in the aid of other churches for advice assistance c. as your selves confesse which an whole Nationall Church need not to doe In 〈◊〉 himselfe confesseth that the Apostles made new rules for government and discipline as occasion served and that as God fitted occasions so he made knowne new rules successively by degrees not at once and added new Officers as Evangelicall Bâ—…shops Elders Deacons Widowes Evangelists Doctors Pastors Teachers which some distinguish from Presbyters and dâ—…fine to be severall offices Therefore the infant Church in the Apostles dayes was not so compleat perfect in all parts as the multiplied and growne churches afterwards 10. My tenth Qâ—…re he wilâ—…ully misrecites as he doth the rest else he had not the least shadow of exception against it aâ—… propounded it and then 〈◊〉 an answer by way of dilemma to it To which I reply That if the Parliament and Synod shall by publike consent establish a Presbyteriall church-government as most consonant to Gods Word the Lawes and Reiglement of this Kingdome Independents and all others are bound in conscience to submit unto it under paine of obstinacy singularity c. in case they cannot really prove it diametrally contrary to the Scriptures and simply unlawfull in point of conscience not by fancies or remote inconsequences but by direct Texts and precepts which they can never doe and that because it is thus commanded established by the higher powers to which in all lawfull or indifferent things wee are bound to render all â—…eatfull obedience without resistance even for conscience sake by expresse Gospel Texts Rom. 13. 1 to 7. Tit. 3. 1. 1 Pet. 2 14 15. which I wish you would pâ—…actise better and make make more conscience of then now you doe As for his crosse Interrogatories I answer 1. That if the Popes Councels command lawfull things to those who aâ—…e subject to their power they are as well to be obeyed as the commands of * heathen Emperours Magistrates Parents Husbands by Christian Subjects Wives Servants living under them are 2. That there is a great difference between matters of opinion onely and of practise That his instanced points Whether Loâ—… Episcopacy be jure divino or their making out Processe under their owne Names and Seales be agreeable to the Law of the Land are matters onely of opinion simply in themselves and if a Synod and Parliament should have determined the first and the Iudges resolved the last affirmatively their resolutions could not binde my judgement absolutely so farre as to subscribe their opinions as undoubted truths unlesse they could satisfie my arguments and authorities to the contrary but yet they should ought to bind me for the present so far as to submit to their authority Processe in their own names in things within their legall cognisance So if the Parliament and Assembly shall establish any Church-government as most agreeable to the Scriptures and our Lawes though this binds not all Independents to be simply of their opinion unlesse the reasons and arguments produced for it be sufficient to convince their judgments yet it binds them in point of practise and obedience outwardly to submit thereto and not to separate from it under pain of arrogancy faction schisme unlesse they can clearly manifest it to be absolutely unlawfull and repugnant to the Scripture As for my own objected challenge to the Bishops Iudges about the jus divinum of Lordly Prelacy and Bishops Processein their own names when I made it I was certain I had both †Scripture Fathers Councels Acts of Parliament the suffrages of all forraigne Reformed Churches Writers and our owne learnedest Bishops Authors in all times against the first and direct Acts Resolutions of Parliament Patents unanswerable Law-authorities and Reasons against the latter Therefore a few Lordly Prelates opinions in their owne case or the subitane forced extra judiciall resolution of the Iudges not then published could no more conclude my judgment nor make me guilty of arrogancy obstinacy or schism then than their forced judgments for the lawfulnesse of Loanes and Ship-money against expresse Acts and judgments of Parliament oblige me or others then or now not to deeme that taxe illegall and when you can produce as many good authorities Reasons from Scripture Antiquity Acts of Parliament Writers of all sorts against the lawfulnesse of Presbytery as I have done against Lordly Episcopacy by divine right Bishops making out Processe under their own Names Seals and †Ship-mony neither of which were ever setled by any former Parliament and have all bin expresly voted against in this I shall then excuse you from arrogancy and schisme but till this be done as I presume it will never be the guilt of both these wil stick fast upon you if you readily conforme not in outward practice to that Government the Parliament shall establish If they should settle Independency I am certaine you would then write and preach for universall obedience to it which you now publikely call for so eagerly without authority or proof of its Divinity because thus setled without dispute therefore by like reason you ought to submit to a Presbytery or such other Government as shall be resolved on by those intrusted with this care notwithstanding any thing you have said or this New Independent sencelesse argument of * Mr I. G. which some of your partie much rely on The Saints shall judg the world at the day of Judgment 1 Cor. 6. 2. Ergo the Parliament chosen by the rifraffe of the World and the Synod may not make any Lawes in matters of Discipline Worship or Government to regulate or oblige Saints now They might better have concluded Ergo the Parliament or any secular Magistrate cannot judge them now for any secular matter since the Apostle
useth this expression onely to blame them for going to Law before Heathen not Christian Iudges for secular matters vers. 1. 6 7. Such Independent arguments will but ill support your Independent fabrick 11 To my 11. Quere he gives only a negative answer and then declaims against Presbytery without ground or reason But because I have proved the truth of what he denies in my Independency examined and in some following pages I shal not trouble you with any further proof except these two particulars 1. That Independency is in reality meer Separation and Brownism lately christened with this new title to take off its odium and if so I doubt not but it is a nursery of schisms Sectaries c. 2. That we finde by wofull experience what bloudy divisions warres schisms the toleration but of one Religion and Sect in our Realms contrary to that established to wit Popery and Papists hath produced in all our Dominions to their imminent danger and almost utter ruine what then will the free permission of many Independent different forms of Churches Sectaries do will it not produce many more troubles dangers wars schisms then we have hitherto felt Yea if every man ought to have freedom of conscience to vent what opinions set up what Governments he deems most conformable to the Word in his own private fancie you must indulge Papists this liberty as well as others and then how soone will they over-run us for the future how justly can we take up armes to suppresse them for the present Consider seriously of these and other publike mischiefes of your way and that liberty of conscience you so much contest for which in truth is nothing but meere lawlesnesse or licentiousnesse to do * what seemes good in your owne eyes as if there was no King in Israel without respect to the publike peace weale or glory of God and then happily you may in time discerne recant your errour 12 To my twelfth Quere he onely answers that I fall a jeering of my brethren a palpable untruth and that I put a nick-name on them to make them odious to wit the title of Independents which they disclaime not answering one syllable to the substance of the Question To which I reply First that the title of Independency of which you are now ashamed was at first assumed approved by your selves and many of your party doe still owne though some disclaim it of purpose to evade the titles of Separatists and Brownists with whom you really concurre in practice Besides you very well know that this title was imposed on and owned by you long before I writ therefore I could not father this brat upon you But if you be offended with this name I desire you in your next Pamphlet to discover to us your owne Christian name with the true title of your party and the government you plead for as the only way of Christs institution all which you have hitherto concealed and then God willing I shall give you a further answer to this cavill or retract this title till then I must informe you that it most proper for your party who will have every one of your owne private congregations a complete absolute corporation exempred from unsubjected to independent on any other be it a Nationall Synodall Provinciall Parochiall assembly Parliament or Kings themselves in any Church-affaires You must therefore still retaine this Title whiles you maintaine such Paradoxes both in opinion practice and that by meere Independent inferences as justly appropriated to you Conveniunt rebus nomina saepe suis being never more exactly verified then in this your suitable name But you object first That you are accountable for your actions to every neighbour Church that shall in the name of Christ require it Secondly That you stand not independent from but hold communion with all other Churches both in the Ordinances and in asking counsell and advice mutually To the first I answer 1. That if you are accountable for your actions to every particular neighbour Church tâ—…n why not much more to a Synod or Parliament whose ecclesiasticall jurisdiction over you or your Churches is denied by you Secondly if you are thus accountable to every neighbour Church doe you intend it of Parochiall Episcopall or Presbyteriall Churches as well as Independent or of Independent onely If of Independent onely as I suppose you doe then you appeale onely to Churches of your owne partie frame judgment and make one of them subordinate accountable to another but not to any other Church which is an apparent schisme separation from all other Churches and contradicts your second objection If of all other sorts of Churches as well as Independent you must either grant them true Churches of Christ and then you have no ground to sever from them or if false or no true Churches of Christ as you in truth repute them then by your own principles they are no competent Iudges of Ecclesiasticall affaires nor you accountable to them Thirdly How I pray doe you hold your selves accountable to every neighbour Church by way of subordination correction or just appeal that I am certain you will deny or only by way of voluntary information and satisfaction when required which I conceive you mean If so only then this is properly no account at all or but arbitrary at most which you may deny if you please and if you erre or prove faulty or refractory this neighbour Church can but admonish not enforce you to correct your errours or injustice and so this will prove but a meere mockery in stead of an account To the second I answer That if you stand not Independent from other Churches but hold communion with them in Ordinances and in mutuall counsell and advice Then 1. why doe you separate from them as no true Churches and oppose their way of Government with so much bitternesse Secondly why doe you refuse to administer Baptisme and the Lords Supper to those who are their members in your Churches unlesse they be professed members of some Independent Congregation Thirdly why do you not follow their advice counsell or the Parliaments Synods admonition and submit therto who now earnestly perswade you from your way of separation division in these distracted times the end of demanding good counsell and advice being but to follow not reject it where there is humility ingenuity or sincerity in those who ask it You must therefore either disclaime these objected concessions or become more tractable for the future 4. You tell us in the next succeeding lines That neither I nor Synods nor this Synod are infallible but as subject to errours as others and that never †more dangerous errours have been confirmed then by Synods and therfore men are not bound in conscience to their decrees upon penaltie of sinne arrogancy c. But pray Sir may not you and your Independent Ministers Churches erre as well as others Is infallibility annexed onely to your private Chaires conventicles If
producing perverting the Scripture it selfe to justifie them as the * Devill cited and wrested Scripture to tempt Christ yea our Saviour and the Scripture informe us that many false Teachers shall arise and doe great Miracles Signes and Wonders insomuch that they shall deceive many yea the greatest part of the World and if it were possible the very Elect That Satan and his Ministers also transforme themselves into Angels of Light That false Teachers usually come to seduce men in sheeps clothing with all deceiveablenes and craftines whereby they lye in waite to deceive and advise us frequently to beware of such and not admit them into our houses c. And must we therefore not speedly oppose resist avoyd suppresse them or any of them now because they thus pretend they are of and from God Himselfe but stay â—…ll we see their condemnation written with a beam of the sun by the finger of God himselfe and till he hath disclaimed renounced them from Heaven by some visible judgment or destruction If Aâ—…rianisme 〈◊〉 Socinianism Anabaptisme or any anciently exploded Heresies or Schismes should revive and sprout up among us as some have lately done should wee use such indulgence as this towards them because they pretend their origination and descent from heaven and their opinions not disputable only but warranted by the Scripture Alas what confusion what inundation of heresies schismes and monstrous opinions would this presently introduce into our Church to its destruction ruine if such a Paradox were once admitted 2 Secondly Because it is contrary to these expresse precepts and presidents both of the Old and New Testament which you may peruse at leasure Deut. 13. 1. to 18. Levit. 19. 17. Joshua 22. 9. to 24. Psalme 119. 104. 128. 2 Kings 22. 8. to 27. Ier. 4. 30. 31. a pregnant place c. 14. 14. to 18. cap. 23. 13. to 23. cap 27. 15. to 19. c. 29. 8 9. Ezra 13. throughout Matthew 7. 15. cap. 24. 11. 23. 24. 25. 26. Mark 13. 5 6. 22 23 24. Acts 13. 6. to 14. cap 15. 1. to 33. cap. 17. 11. Rom. 16. 17. 18. 2 Cor. 11. 13. 14 15. Galath. 1. 6. 7 8 9 10. c. 2. 4. to 18. a noted place c. 3. 1 2. 3. Ephes. 4. 14 15. Phil. 3. 1. 2. 3. Coloss. 2. 8. 18. to the end 1 Thes. 5. 21. 2 Thes. 2. 1. to 16. c. 3. 6. 7. 1 Tim. 4. 1. to 7. chap. 1. 20. chap 5. 20 21 22. 2 Tim. 2. 16. 17 18. 23 24 25 26. c. 4. 1. to 6. Titus 1. 9. to 15. chapter 3. 9. 10 11. 2 Pet. 2. 1. 2 3. c. 3. 17. 18. 1 Ioh. 4. 2. 3. 2 John 10. 11. Jude 3. 4. c. Revel. 2. 14. 15. 20 21. compared together f Paul would not give way to false Apostles NO NOT FOR AN HOURE that the truth of the Gospell might continue among the Galatians and resisted Peter to his face as soone as ever hee walked disorderly and gave the least countenance to false Teachers though a chiefe Apostle and did not demur upon the matter yea the Churches * of Pergamus and Thyatyra are sharply blamed for suffering some among them to hold the doctrine of Balaam and the Nicolaitans and to suffer Jesabell the Prophetesse to teach and seduce And shall we permit them now without restraint 3 Thirdly Because it is contrary to these received unquestionable Maximes of Divinitie Policie and Morality Principijs obstare Venienti occurrere morbo to withstand the very beginnings of Errors Heresies Mischiefes Schismes to crush these Cockatrices in the shell rather to keep then cast them out Turpius ejicitur quà m non admittitur hostis All wise men hold preventing Physicke best for their bodies states and why not for their souls and Churches since Sero medicina paratur cum mala per longas invaluére moras 4 Fourthly Because contrary to the h Policy practise of most Godly Magistrates Princes Ministers Churches in all Ages Nations which never indulged such liberty to opinions new wayes practises especially to new Church-governments Schismes and Conventicles which he here pleads for set up only by private spirits in opposition to the publick established Church-regelment Indeed in some matters mearly of opinion which are not dangerous or schismaticall some latitude may and must be left to men but matters of Government are such tender things as differences varieties therin cannot be tollerated in one and the selfe same Church and State without infinite inconveniencies and disturbances especially where every Church shall be Independent subject to no other Canons rules but its own peculiar arbitrary Dictates 2 It may be questioned whether the Independent way he there so earnestly pleads for be the way of Christ or not since he neither discovers to us what it is nor produceth any one text to prove it Christs own way nor one example to warrant it in any age but gives us good grounds to suspect it none of his without much scrutiny 1 For first he confesseth i that this way is every where spoken against even by some that would be thought prime men and pillars in the temple of God and insinuates that the Parliament Assembly and generality of the k Ministers and people of the Realm are bent against it Therefore being a new way never yet heard off in the world in any age or Church of Christ and thus generally opposed by our whole Church and State even in these times of Reformation we may l justly suspect it is no way of Christ till we see its approbation written in a beam of the Sun with the finger of God himself and till he hath justified and owned it as his from heaven 2 He tacitly acknowledgeth it a m Government set up by a few private men not only without but against the authority commands of the Parliament and supream temporall Magistrates yea which not only denyes but oppugnes the temporall Magistrates Parliaments Synods directions or coercive power in Ecclesiasticall affairs directly contrary to the Scriptures as I have largely proved by many Texts in my o Independency examined Only I shall adde that not only the Kings and temporall Magistrates of the Israelites but even heathen p Kings and Princes as Cyrus Artaxerxes Darius Nebuchadnezzar the King Nobles of Nineve c. enacted good and wholsom Laws for the worship honor and service of the true God and to further his people in the building of his temple who thereupon were enjoyned to pray for their prosperity as the marginall Scriptures evidence Yea r Paul himselfe even in matters of Religion pleaded his cause before Festus Felix King Agrippa and at last appealed unto Caesar an heathen Emperor herein yea he enjoyns all Christians s to pray even for heathen Kings Magistrates and to submit to all their lawfull commands for conscience sake to whose judicature and tribunals t Christ himself and his Apostels willingly submitted