will draw in a Purgatorie perforce in my mind they should doe better for the auoiding of partialitie to let the bodie which hath not the least part in the pleasure and fomenting of sin haue a turne or two in those flames as well as the soule Shall the terrestriall part sleepe in peace and shal the spirituall part pay so deare for the workes of the flesh This were to giue the bodie a l Pares in culpa Pares in poena priuiledge and prerogatiue aboue the soule Min. Nick You digresse I was about to craue his answer to m Art 18. pag. 86. b. Roffensis his relation who sayth that the Greekes to this day doe not beleeue there is a Purgatorie and that in their Commentaries there is verie litle or no mention thereof at all Yea the Latines saith hee did not all of them together receiue the truth of this matter but by litle and litle Whereunto Polydore also seemeth to assent Iab You n Pag. 92 omit that which you haue in your Latine Originall Quantum opinor as I now thinke or ghesse sayth that Bishop which is lesse then a new nothing to hang on your sleeue For though Roffensis at that time had such a thought not hauing then so fully perused the Graecian Fathers yet afterwardes in that verie Booke when hee commeth to speake of Purgatorie he doth affirme the contrarie in expresse tearmes Ma. He hath a verie simple Naperie who is faine to wipe his nose with a Foxes taile Did that Bishop write in such hast without perusall that hee had no leisure to giue a dash to so short a sentence in a point so materiall hauing before the finishing of his worke found the bush that could stoppe so maine a gappe Did his wisdome giue such reines to his vnruly pen to say and vnsay without a check What ancient Greeke Father doth hee nominate to contradict his former opinion Iab Whereas o Pag. 93 Luther did obiect that the Greeke Church did not beleeue Purgatorie he maketh this answer I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers of the Graecian Church for that the Graecian Fathers fauour Purgatorie the workes they left behind them doe witnesse Min. Without all question Purgatorie was greatly in their fauour when they could not so much as once vouchsafe to name it throughout their manie bookes Had they beeleued it their Charitie would haue compelled them to reueale it Your Roffensis I perceiue was then in a desperate case least Tradition shold be also wrung out of his clutches he is inforced to trie his wits and loe how gaily hee distinguisheth I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers as if they would not haue receiued it if their Doctors had deliuered it Is it not a rare Iest to search for the Records of faith inter Idiotas Could they haue beene raysed from their graues to testifie that by word of mouth which they were before vnable to write the Bishops surmise had beene more reasonable And what tokens of loue doth he bring from those Fathers to Purgatorie forsooth they mention Sacrifice and Prayer for the dead that so the soules departed being yet as they thought somewhat recluse might more speedily enjoy the beatificall vision of God as also that condigne prayse might be rendred to the Almightie by the aide of whose grace they were enabled to die in the faith Iab Whereas p Ibid. Luther obiecteth that Purgatorie could not be proued out of the Scripture Roffensis replieth that to pray for soules in Purgatorie is a most Ancient custome of the Church Nick. I promise you a wittie answere and to good purpose T is an ill Horse that can neyther wey-hey nor wagge his taile Your faction were litle beholding to him if hee would not say that it is a most ancient custome All the craft lies in the catching of this swift-wing'd proofe Could the Doctor come to lay salt vpon the taile of it we should soone haue it in our dish Min. Saint Paul who was rapt vp into the third Heauen should know as much concerning the most abstruse mysteries as the best He writing ex professo to the q 1. Thes 4. Thessalonians touching the state of the dead and prefacing his speech with Nolumus vos ignorare de dormientibus speakes not one word of this new-found Land nor of any ransome to bee payed for their enlargement who are there imprisoned Yea more he closeth that discourse with this Epilogue that hee would haue them comfort one another with these sayings which had not beene so properly or seasonably spoken were there a Purgatorie and penall satisfaction to be vndergone after this life The foolish Virgins that cried r Mat. 25.8 Date nobis de oleo vestro were non-suted with a nenō sufficiat nobis vobis So that the deceased estate of your declining Purgatorie receiuing so small a subsidiarie supply from that high sacred Court of the Apostolical Synod must be faine to stand to Roffensis his temporizing credulitie Iab You ſ Pag. 93. 94 haue the whole Armie of the Christian Church in all ages set in battaile-aray against you the blessed Apostles with pikes as I may say of Diuine authoritie standing in the forefront Ma. Indeed if Roffensis were an Apostle the Sett is yours He saith it is a most auncient custome of the Church but he falters in his euidence Iab To impeach t Pag. 91. the authority of the Church is the badge of heresie to condemne her custome is insolent madnesse Nick. This is your Ladies A.B.C. your Church is as much beholding vnto you as was Pythagoras to his Schollars In stead of Ipse dixit you will haue Ipsa dixit Iab What man u Pag. 94. 95. that hath any bit either of diuinity in his head or Christianity in his heart or Sobriety in his tongue would accuse Catholickes for esteeming the Ipsa dixit of the Church as much as the Pythagorians did the Ipse dixit of their Master Why should not this Ipsa the Mother of Christians the Spousesse of the Holy Ghost this Pillar and Foundation of truth this Daughter of God the Father washed with the bloud of his Sonne that shee might in her doctrine haue no blemish of errour Why should not her word I say be more esteemed of by her children then the saying of Pythagoras a Pagan Philosopher was with his Schollars Nick. I aske the banes of matrimony betweene Water and Woort Doe you think to out-swagger vs with your Rhetorique then I tell you Doctor your Romish Church is not the right subiect for those sweet attributes She is not the Mother of Christians but the Foster-dame of Heretiques Not the Spouse of the holy Ghost but the Minion of Antichrist Not the Pillar but the Poller of truth Not the Daughter of God the Father but the Bastard of Sathan Not washed in the bloud of his Sonne but polluted
vse May not such a Pilot as Dr. Iabal steere their vessells vpon the rockes and sandes how shall they know that this or that is the sence or Tradition of the Catholique church I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socrates Zozomen Eusebius Theodoret and the other Antiquaries for releife and then they must be well skilled in the tongues Nick. Yf there should be a grammar schoole erected for the feminine gender it would be a braue world Iabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp O how featly would he discipline their Albes There would be Tollo tollis sustuli The Girles will neuer consent to so harsh a motion they had rather speake true english at home then make false latin at Schoole vnder such an yll-faced Tutor Iab Had not m Pag. 58. Luther the first fruites of the protestants spirit Yet he erred most grossely that euen Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope doth giue this testimony against him Thou Luther doest corrupt the worde of God thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures If he be so corrupt what translation or spirit of your church may your Ladies trust Ma. These are not the first fruites of your witlesse malice neither was Luther the first Coyner of our protestant faith which doth carry the right stampe of the most auncient sacred and primitiue truth Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his writings then will your slaunder be soone silenced and supprest with shame As he was a man he might be subiect to some particular error which if Zuinglius reproued by warrant of the Scriptures it proceeded from his loue to the truth not out of hatred to his person And haue there not bene worse broyles among your scholasticall Diuines Haue not the positiue Constitutions of former Councells bene repealed by those that succeded Haue not the Popes Decrees bene censured and discarded by their successors Where was your Catholique spirit all that while It is in vaine to looke for a n Foelix qui minimis vrgetur heauen vppon earth Shall the whole fabrick be puld downe because a Wyndowe or a Chimney or a Tyle is misplaced He is a good Architect that leaues nothing to mend Zuinglius his reproofe may informe you that our Church is more deuoted to the Scriptures verity then to the most prime mans authority Iab This is o Pag. 98. 99. the felicity of our Catholike Ladies that by the worde of the Church they know certainlie which is the letter of the scripture Which your Ladyes like stray-sheepe must seeke on the topp of craggy mountaines as the Knight tearmeth the Hebrew language not without eminent daunger of an eternall downefall Nick. Here is a doe with the Ladies falling Yf you were their Gentleman Vsher should they not haue a stout supporter Stand to your tackling good Doctor Iab There is such a Ibid. confusion in your Church that as Irenaeus noted of auncient Heretikes one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sence out of the same wordes Ma. Why hath God giuen such diuersity of guiftes to his Church but that there should be q Quid in diuinis eloquiis largius vberius potuit diuinitus prouideri quam vt eâ—dem verba pluribus inte ligantur modu Aug. de Doct. Chris lib. 3. variety of applications Is not the Kings Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta r Psal 45.14 varietatibus Clad in a vesture wrought about with diuerse colours If the stuffe be the same t is no great matter though the lace and embrodery be not laid in all alike What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions Iab These foure Å¿ Pag. 99. wordes Hoc est corpus meum contayning not aboue fourteene letters you haue deuised aboue fower times fortie expositions so different as the Authors of the one damne the Fauorers of the other to Hell Ma. A fitt receptacle for all such loud lyars who care not what Crudityes they vomit vppon the bosome of the most eminent and innocent persons without either feare or shame Min. They that are conuersant in the writings of your Catholique Authors know that there is allmost as much difference among them about the three letters of this one sillable Hoc as is amongst the Protestants in the whole sentence Ma. If Mercury himselfe were amongst them with his rodd of truce all his Rhetorique would hardly teach them their t Quid dem quid non dem renuis tu quod iubet alter Concordes Iabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope u In Epist ad Imperat. ad fin 6. Synod Honorius for an Heretique Had Zuinglius serued Luthers bookes as Pope x Platina in Sabin Senens lib. 4. pag. 23. Sabinian did the workes of Gregorie his predecessor wee should haue an outcry against fiery spirits then he might more tolerably haue demaunded What shal your poore Ladies do in this combate Iab They may y Pag. 99. rashly perswade themselues that this or that exposition is the best but certaine of any thing they can neuer bee till they admit the Catholike Ladies A.B.C. the Churches authoritie learning of her the sence of whom they tooke the text Nick. When the men of Thessalonica z Act. 17.11 tried the Apostles Doctrine whether it were true or no did they send a Legate to learne the judgement of the Church of Rome Vnto whom did they repaire but vnto a Scrutabantur Scripturas him that had the wordes of life Our Ladies are not so raw in the Scriptures but that if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose they can take that which doth best agree with the Analogie of Faith and the Rule of Charitie The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctors chaire but that it is most free to make euen them of the lowest forme b Super Senes intellexi quia mandata tua quaesiui Psa 119 v. 100. wise vnto saluation Ma. I haue heard a worthie speech of Panormitan often alleaged to this purpose that there is more credit to be giuen to one c Plus credendum viro Laico afferenti Scripturas c. Laick that bringeth Scripture then to a generall Councell representing the vniuersall Church if it haue not the warrant of the word It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this meanes preuailed against a whole Synode and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life And not without great reason For if antiquitie be to bee respected or consent to be regarded the Prophets and Apostles haue the superioririe in both Min. Whereas he complaines of confusion and danger of misinterpretation for the magnifying of Tradition he forgets the censure of d Lib. 3. Cap. 2 Irenaeus vpon the prime Heretiques for the same quarrell e Difficilis paucisque conueniens eruditis Aug. aduers Iulian. l. 5. c. 1 Iulian the Pelagian thought by
testis Dei aut Sacrilegus habeatur Which Censure I can hardly perceiue how the Doctor wil shun seeing that without either euidence of Scripture or warrant of anie Primitiue Father he would a Stamen flaccidum arancosi pertexit Basil impose vs vnder the glorious title of his Church so super-stitious a Custome Nick. Their Romish Church is Magna Diana Ephesiorum of more principalitie then the rest her authority must out-sway Scriptures Fathers whatsoeuer else is of most sacred esteeme Iab Saint Irenaeus a b Pag. 120. most Ancient Bishop and Martyr who liued immediately after the Apostles dayes doth giue the former stile to the Roman Church planted by the most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul Ad quam propter potentiorem principalitatem necesse est omnem conuenire Ecclesiam which principalitâ—e you cannot imagine what else it may be besides the Primacie of Peter to whome Christ did make subiect all other Pastors and Churches by the light of which singular priuiledge bestowed on this Church in her first Pastor shee doth shine Velut inter ignes Luna minores And in this respect the Roman Church may be termed Diana Nick. It is not vnlike for shee hath turn'd you into a fugitiue and sencelesse Creature If you bee wearied in the Chase you know whom to thanke Ma. In my opinion Iabal is taken in his own toile tript in his own turne The Roman Church saith he shines as the Moone amongst the lesser starres He doth well to say as the Moone which is still in the change Shee that was a beautifull c Fuimus Troes Queene in the dayes of Irenaeus is now become a painted d Peiora nouissima primis Harlot prostituted to all manner of Impuritie Superstition hath blowne vpon Dianas Nimphes so that they can now no longer stand vpon tearmes of virginitie She that was Princesse amongst the Churches is made tributarie to Sathan her light is ecclipsed with Idolatrous positions and Antichristian practises She hath changed her e Tune lignei calices aurei Sacerdotes Nunc aurei calices lignei Sacerdotes Bernard wodden Chalices but she hath lost her golden Priests Min. Had Irenaeus taken Principalitie in your sence for an absolute spirituall and vniuersall preheminence and jurisdiction ouer al other Churches he would not haue beene so bold as to controle that great Victor chiefe Superintendent of so predominant a Sea You may probably imagine he intended no such necessarie subiection thereunto as would serue your turne seeing hee f Euseb li. 5. c. 23 joyned with those who did communicate with the Asian Churches notwithstanding the excommunication which the Pope had denounced against them The Church of Rome was then in the ful glittering with splendencie of Martyrdome wherefore hee sendeth the Heretikes with whom hee was confronted thither for light where the brightest rayes of orient truth were most conspicuous Had hee liued to see Turbanus that man of sinne with the furze-bush of superstitious Trumperies at his backe seated in your Moone hee would haue blessed himselfe at the sight of so strange a Metamorphosis Iab Heretikes g Pag. â—01 in all ages haue beene condemned by the Iudgement of the Roman See by the light of her authoritie they were forced to see the deformitie of their hellish pride This consideration mooued Saint Augustine to say that the Catholike Church deriued from the Apostolike See partly by the authoritie of Councels partly by the Consent of the World partly in the Maiestie of Miracles had obtained the height of authoritie frustra circum latrantibus haereticis Nick. Forward Children are seldome long-liued Wel-fare him that hath a winter-witte long a ripening Did you euer heare such an vnmellow kind of arguing That which Saint Augustine speakes of the Catholike Church hee applies to his Romish Synagogue Admit hee had spoken of Iabals Apostolike See as it then was Whence did it obtaine the height of authoritie but from the Consent of h Propter quod vnumquodque tale illud magis tale Councels and from the maiestie of truth Doth this make any thing for the Principalitie of Rome innouated which is now so farre from taking her authoritie from Councels that she disanulleth and ouerswayeth them at her pleasure So farre from receiuing countenance from the truth that shee discardeth the most sacred veritie which beareth not the Impresse of her partiall sences If I bee not deceiued Heretikes haue beene also confuted and condemned by Damascene Epiphanius Irenaeus and other Greeke Fathers as sufficiently as by the Popes of Rome It were wel if you would now dippe the tippe of your tongue in one dramme of witte to giue a better relish to your speech Min. Whilest Rome being the most opulent populous and eminent Citie of Christendome helde forth the burning Taper of Gods truth there was great reason she should bee held in especiall regard but now the Candlesticke being remoued it is as iust that her authoritie should bee lessened Saint i Lib. de peccat merit remis cap. 27. Augustine was not so Parasiticall as to flatter her in her errours There was a Case wherein bee did not sticke to say Magis me mouet authoritas Ecclesiarum Orientalium And Aeneas Siluius is not afraid to say that before the Nicene Councell there was no great respect had of Rome So thar it is not the person of Peter but her Constancy in the faith of Peter that did make her great Besides the greatnes whereof S. Augustine doth speake is not ascribed to the Roman but to the whole Catholique Church Ma. I doe not remember that we receyued either Scriptures Creede or the fower first generall Councels or any foundation of faith from the Roman Church Iab Perhaps k Pag. 102. your reason is because these Councells were held not in Europe but in Greece but the cause was the purity of one neuer falling into heresy and the infelicity of the other neuer to be without the inuentors of such Monsters Those heresies against which such Councells were called did spring vp in Greece This was the cause that the Orthodoxall Bishops of Greece in defence of trueth were often forced to fly for succour to the Roman Ma. Had there bene such Principality in the Papal Sea as you surmise those Heretiques would rather haue bene cited to the Romish Consistory and there receyued their doome Those worthie Patriarches Athanasius and Paulus sent not vnto the Pope as vnto one Supreame vnder God vppon earth ouer the flock of Christ but as vnto a Christian Bishop who was bound to interpose his best ayde for the Peace of the Church Besides those of Rome there also were other Bishops whose presence was there also required I hope you will not saie there was a superiority in all Min. Nay l In vita Bonifacij 3. Platina tells vs that the whole Greeke Church was so farre from yeilding to the Popes m It differed also in the obseruation of the
contrary so it sorteth best with her honour who was the Mother of our Sauiour As for rebaptizing of those who were baptized by o Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis non ex sanctitate minâ—strantis Baptismus talis est qualâ—s ille iâ— câ—ius potestate datur non qualiâ— percuius ministerium datur Aug. in Ioh. â— Heretiques we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian yet not because he hath taught it but for that as him selfe saith Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta I haue sure p Eph 4.5 proofes out of the Ghospell Yea he pronounceth a q Cont. lit Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing either of Christ or his Church or any other matter of faith besides that which is receyued from the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzled with a speeck of his to r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre Nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione certet Min. Irenaeus Tertullian who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques as either denyed the purity of the Scriptures or traduced the perspicuity of them did both of them appeale to Tradition because they where challenged at that weapon by their aduersaries And by what Compasse did they saile first they proue that alone to be true and authenticall Tradition which was deliuered by Christ to the Apostles and by them to the Church by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity Secondly they stand for no other Traditions but for the very same articles of faith which were contayned in the written worde Peruse Å¿ Irenae lib. 1. cap. 2.3 lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip haeret both their seuerall and specificall Enumerations of Traditions which the Church hath successiuely continued and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects with the Apostles Creede T is true they might haue proued them before competent Iudges by the authority of Scripture but as the Case stoode the authority of the Church was thought more preualent and the rather that they might shew the harmony thereof with the holy Scriptures Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they vrge it is fit your Bill should passe otherwise you must not take it ill if your Grace be stopt Iab Doe but t Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius who will giue you a newer tune then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vnwritten Traditions concerning Doctrine and Manners are in the Church which are not only profitable but in a manner necessary which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the authority of the Church which is very displeasing vnto God Your Dr. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde if they can proue any such vnwritten verities Ma. Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead which you will sooner proue to be dreames then Apostolicall Traditions but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus haue recorded for such Dr. Feildes If touching the poynt in question carries the sence of an impossible Supposition which we haue reason to suspect till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree If you can proue this to be one of those vnwritten TraditioÌ„s whereof Zanchius speaketh then we will according to Dr. Feildes aduise not much dissent from your Conclusion till then we must craue pardon Iab The u Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God and euacuating the Crosse of Christ are many but either so triuiall and knowne together with the Catholiques aunsweres or else so ridiculously applied wrung and wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head Nick. Then had you neede of a good head-peice to beare off the weight of the blowe whose sound maketh so great a battery Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse Well seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloud-shed he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle And for want of a better Atorney let me craue a Coppy of your Plea Iab Shall x Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments They be three Enthymems I thinke The first The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong man and tooke his Fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish awaye Ma. The argument that once passeth your fingers is not dismissed without a torne fleece but seeing we must take it as you present it let vs heare your exceptions why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure Iab Can you y Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Gaoles What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them shal the wal of a prison mew them vp Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell made no passage through Newgates Limbo where sometimes your Elect are kept Hath hee bound the strong man that hee should not harme and shall now a Hangman put them to death You perceiue I hope the vanitie of your Inferences Ma. Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles may read Absurdity indeed But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse by the mishapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face you must bee aduertised that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed nor so Goggle-eyed as the picture which you haue drawne according to your own Idaea to resemble it He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged you wrest it to their corrections in this life which haue their profitable vse His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice which Christ hath fully accomplished and not to those Chastisements which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-sufficient Sacrifice at which your Squint-eyed supposition doth glance Min. There are sundrie reasons why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penalties First for the manifestation of his owne Iustice Secondly for their Correction humiliation and amendement that their Spirits may bee saued in the day of the Lord Thirdly for the Caution and Example of others Fourthly for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie and politique Societie
feast of Easter Supremacy that they complained when Phocas conferred it vppon Boniface It is an incredible happines which you ascribe to the Roman Church that it neuer fell into heresy when as the n 2. Thes 2.7 mystery of iniquity began to worke euen in the age of the Apostles Then was o Iob. Mar. belg pag 441. Petrarch too blame for calling Rome the Whore of Babylon and p Hist pag. 535. Mathew Paris for saying she was a shamelesse common and prostituted whore Did not Marcellinus commit Idolatry in offering sacrifice to Iupiter Did not Pope Liberius fall into Arianisme when Athanasius stood vppon his right feete I am sure you haue heard that Honorius the first was a Monotholite holding that Christ had but one will and one nature Iab The q Pag. 102. sincerity of doctrine as Ruffinus noteth is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add any worde or sillable to the Creede but kept the same intire without addition Ma. Then you graunt as much as we craue that those principall Iewells which the Catholique Church prizest most came not out of Roomes Treasury Me thincks you should blush when you name Ruffinus for how haue you degenerated from that auncient Rome who haue not bene ashamed to add not only sillables but more then eleuen articles to the Apostolicall Creede Reckon them vppon your fingers and you shall neither finde the Popes Supremacy nor Purgatory c. which you haue added as poyntes of like necessity to be beleiued Nick. Then haue they litle affinity with the true Church for r Lett. to T. H. pag. 68. she taketh not vppon her to controll the holy Scripture her mother from whome she drew her first breath She openeth not her mouth till her Mother haue deliuered her minde she commeth not of her owne head with a sleeuelesse arrant Iab You ſ Pag 104. describe the Spouse of Christ as a mannerly young mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole You deserue a t Pag. 106. coate with foure sleeues for this Metaphor which maketh the Church Scripture Daughter Nick. Are these the u Praef. Cumaean sopps you promised take heede least you pluck an old house ouer your eares Such liueries best befitt your indigent followers Let him weare your fooles-coate with fower sleeues that is free of your company You may cutt as large a thonge as you list of your owne hide Ma. The Metaphor is sacred and doth not deserue so ridiculous a weede S. Peter vseth it saying that we are borne a newe not of mortall seede but of immortall x 1. Pet. 1.23 Rom. 10.17 by the worde of God I haue begotten you saith S. Paul y 1. Cor. 4.15 by the Ghospell The Church being begotten and gathered by the worde must not stand vppon tearmes of seniority with her progenitor Iab The z Pag. 107. Church of the old testament was some thousand yeares before scripture the Church of the newe testament did flourish many yeares before any Ghospel was written S. Irenaeus a Pag. 106. 107 writeth that many Churches in his time had neuer read any worde of Scripture yet did they flourish by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their heartes Ma. A man might pose you should he demaund what proofe you haue for your Negatiue that there were no sacred bookes before those fiue written by Moses seeing he mentioneth a b Num. 21.14 Booke of the warres of the Lord and the c Ioshua 10.13 Booke of the Iust what can you shewe to the contrary why those bookes might not be written by some of the Patriarches Doth not St. d Verse 14. Iude alleadge a testimony out of the prophecy of Enoch Min. Let vs not contend with him for this What if we graunt that the vnwritten worde was more auncient the difference was not in the matter but in the manner It was vnto them being ratifyed by the Prophets and confirmed by extraordinary reuelations in the nature of a written worde And when that worde was expressed in visible Caracters Traditions e Mat. 15.3 were of no longer vse As for the Ghospell it was written before the Race of eye-witnesses was extinct what they preached the same things they registred So that it was one and the f Proliteris spiritus Sancti gratiam se illis daturum repromisit Chrisost bom 1. in Mat. same worde by which the Church in all ages hath bene gathered For as g Euseb l. 3. 20. Irenaeus saith of Polycarpus he deliuered those things which he had learned of them who had seene the worde of life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wholy agreable to that which is written The same Father h Irenaeus l. 3. c. 1 also informes vs that the Apostles left in writing to the Church the same Ghospell which they had formerly preached by worde of mouth that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith yea of that true and liuely saith which the Church hath receiued from them and doth prescribe to her Children As they preached saith S. Hierom. for the confirmation of faith so was it necessary they should write for the confusion of Heretiques Contra insidiosos errores saith S. i In Epist Ioh. 1. tract 2. Augustine voluit Deus ponere firmamentum in Scripturis Seeing then the ayme of Gods spirit in the deliuery of diuine Scripture which is k 2. Tim. 3.15 able to make a man wise vnto Saluation was as Theophilact writeth to preuent haereses pullulaturas what doe they but open a gappe for all heresyes which giue waye to vnwritten vncertayne and vnnecessary Traditions Considera quam sit extremae dementiae saith S. l Hom. 1. in Mat. Chrisostome nos qui primam illam dignitatem perdidimus ne secundo remedio vti velle ad salutem sed coelestia scripta quasi frustrà ac vanè posita dispicere Consider what extreme m Vide Euseb lib. 3. cap. 33. de Papiae Paradoxis traditione fulcitis madnesse it is that wee who haue lost that first dignity of purity should refuse to vse the second remedy for our Saluation by contemning those heauenly writings as if they were giuen in vaine and for no vse Thus in stead of the folly which you obiect S. Chrisostome requites you with the note of no lesse then extreme madnesse Iab Where is the perpetuall n Pag. 104. 105. Virginity of the B. Mother after the sacred birth of the Sonne of God written in the Scripture What is it but à perpetuall tradition of Gods Church S. Augustine saith it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture that Heretiques returning to the Church should not be rebaptized and yet the Church hath forbidden the same Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse Ma. The perpetuall Virginity of the blessed Mother is no matter of saluation whether we beleiue it or no. Yet are we of that opinion because as we read not any thing to the
breathe Nick. Had I beene his Herald hee should haue borne a Lady cow for his Crest It had beene a fit Embleme for a faire out-side Though his pen made him admirable in his age yet did his c Dumque moror mirorque simul fugit omnis in vndas miraculous lies make him ridiculous in his dotage d Suspendit calamum Marianae Lipsius arae Suspendi meruit c. Well did his pen deserue to hang at Maries Altar But of the twaine himselfe did best deserue the haltar He best deserued the whetstone for his lying That could not leaue the trade-when he was dying Ma. When Lipsius wrote did he sit stand kneele or leane Hee did lie most that 's flat witnesse his last Scene Min. Then I see you meane not to die in Iabals debt for an Epigram In lieu of his Ladies gloues you haue returned him a Cow with two prettie Calues by her side Lipsius will neuer bee dead as long as they liue Iab Among manie e Pag. 130 deuises the enemie of Mankind hath set abroach in this age to infect the world with Irreligion and Atheisme none seemeth to mee more potent then the deniall of miracles together with those shifts which Heresie hath inuented to discard those both of ancient fresh memorie which please not your tast Ma. That it doth so seeme vnto you seemes not strange vnto vs who doe assure our selues of your forwardnesse in aduancing the state and dignitie of your grand Bel-peor The point is whether our Sauiour his Apostles and the Fathers of the Church held the deniall of your vpstart Lapsian miracles such a potent meanes to infect the World with Atheisme and Irreligion If you will bee tried by these holde vp your f Ecce purissimas meas manus Praeceptor quoth the boy with the scabbed fingers hand A match Doth not Moses g Deut. 13.2.6 forbid vs to judge of the Doctrine by miracles Saith hee not that if any man shall giue vs a signe or a wonder which he told of should come to passe yet we must not hearken vnto him if he once say Come and let vs goe serue other Gods The h Ier. 23 Prophet complaines in the person of Almightie God against these Miracle-mongers Seduxerunt populum meum in mendacijs suis in miraculis suis Our Sauiour i Mat. 24. v. 23.24.25 forewarneth vs not to beleeue such For there shall arise false Christs and false Prophets and they shall shew great signes and wonders insomuch that if it were possible they shall deceiue the verie Elect. Saint k 2. The. 2.9.10 Paul prophetically auerreth that the comming of the man of sinne shall be after the working of Sathan with all powers and signes and lying wonders And with all deceiueablenesse of vnrighteousnesse in them that perish because they receiued not the loue of the truth that they might be saued And that for this cause God shall send strong Delusion that they should beleeue a lie What greater contrarietie can be imagined then there is betweene your position and these textuall verities Min. The Ancient Fathers haue likewise ioyned their forces in the same Encounter Doth not Saint l In Mat. hâ— 49 Chrysostome manacle these Quack-saluers for playing their Leger-de-main trickes Per signacognoscebatur saith hee qui essent veri Christiani qui falsi Nunc autem signorum operatio omnino leuata est magis autem inuenitur apud cos qui falsi sunt Christiani Saint m De Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. cap. 8 Augustine makes a monster of him who doth now desire wonders for the kindling of his faith after so cleare a demonstration of Euangelicall miracles Contraistos Mirabiliarios saith n In Iohan. tract 13. hee cautum me fecit Deus meus My God hath armed mee against such To what end doth hee say Behold I haue tolde you before but that his Spouse should not be entrap'd with such Sophisticall miracle Yea hee blasteth both Lipsius and his Shrine with a o Aug. de vnit Eccles cap. 19. Remoueantur Away saith hee with this geare p Miracula fiut aliquaado humana procuratione aliquando diabolica operatione Al. Hale Quast 53. Art 3 which is eyther the iugling of deceitfull men or the Illusion of lying Deuils It is in my opinion the next way to make men Atheists to see Papists so much distrust the efficacie of the word and the soliditie of Euangelicall truthes that they are euerie day driuen to seeke new supporters of their faith which they easily discerne to bee hammered by the hand of fraud Iab As no q Pag. 130 age since the Creation hath beene without prophane fellowes prone to denie Gods prouidence ouer mankind to iest and scoffe at his seruants so likewise the same prouidence hath not permitted anie age to passe without Miracles and markes of his power keeping the impious in awe by punishments miraculously inflicted vpon their mates and comforting his true worshippers with extraordinarie fauours and benefits bestowed on them aboue natures reach Ma. What authoritie you haue to Canonize them that worship your Ladie of Hall for true worshippers as your supposition intendeth wee will not dispute It would put you to a plunge to proue Image-worshippers true worshippers Christ r Ioh. 4.23 Da medium lunae Solem simul canis iram saith that the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and truth and not the Mother of Hall in stocke or stone Not to stand vpon this I doe not see how you can excuse your presumption in aduenturing to teach the Å¿ A posse ad esse non sequitur argumentum Almightie how hee should awe the impious and comfort his seruants The state of the Church were in a lamentable case if there were no other means for the producing of these effects besides the working of new t Miracula persequentes fugiunt fugientes persequuntur Aeneas Siluius miracles The persecutors of Gods people may be stricken with terrour when they heare the successe which Pharao Antiochus Senacharib Herod and the rest had If with the Adder they stoppe their eares against these neyther would they beleeue though an Angell should come with a fierie sword from Heauen The Lord is able by his secret Iudgements to preuent their malice and confound their deuices The patience which hee giueth vnto his seruants is a miracle which more astonisheth their Enemies and addeth a greater measure to their owne glorious reward then if they were rescued by a miraculous supply To you that desire fire and bullets to strike off the noses of your Enemies I may say with our Sauiour in the like case Nescitis cuius spiritus sitis Iab In what u Pag. 131 age since the comming of Christ hath eyther pietie more needed a spur or impietie a curbe then in this we liue in The Wolfe is said to be so stiffnecked and greedie of his prey that he neuer looketh back but when
by mistaking of the word Canonicall which is sometimes taken largely to signfie aswel the Bookes that might concerne the Rule of Manners as those which serue for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith in which sence your Father and Councell are to be vnderstood whereas the same word in the strict and proper signification doth only comprehend the Bookes which agree with the Canon of the Hebrewes according to the generall consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches before the dayes of Saint Augustine To this end hee sent no worse p Letter to T.H. pag. 62. Messenger to cleare this doubt then a person eminent both by name and place I meane that famous Cardinall Cajetan Ne turberis Nouitie saith he Si alicubi reperias libros istos inter Canonicos supputari Cum hac distinctione poteris discernere dicta Augustini scripta in Concilio Prouinciali Carthaginensi Hee tels you that they are thus to be vnderstood as also that none but Nouices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble themselues by making any question in so apparaÌ„t a truth Nick. Iabal hath well requited him for his paines I trow he hath sent the Cardinall away with a flea in his eare If Caietan had beene Pope hee would haue beene twice aduised before he had so rudely reiected his Oracles My fellow Iack Footeman would haue no great Maw to carry a Message to such a currish Swaine from whom hee expects no better entertainment Min. Caietan I wis had more wit in his little finger then Iabal in his whole body Beati Pacifici was his aime Should such hot-spurres as our Nouice haue beene made Arbitrators there would haue beene such a broyle amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled For if you take away this fauourable most probable distinction you should soone see a field pitch'd betweene q Vide Admon praefix Concord Bibliorum per haered Wecheli Cyril Cyprian Origen r Si quid extra haec inuenitur inter adulterinos libros numerandum est Greg. Nazian Nazian zene Å¿ Anthonin Summ. maior Parâ— 3. tit 18. cap. 6. § 2. Hierome t Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus appellati sunt eiusdem ordinis Tobiae Iudith et Machabaeorum libri Ruffi in Symbol fol. 575. Ruffinus Epiphanius u Sunt Canonici veteris testamenti libri viginti duo lâ—teris baebraicis numero parâ—s Aâ—ban ex Synopsi Athanasius Eusebius and Gregory on th' one side discarding them and Augustine the Councell of Carthage Trent on th' other part defending them When this pitch'd battel should haue beene fought the Romanists might haue sought our valiant Sanga vnder the Trundle-bedde till the hurly burly had beene at at end vnlesse they had pluckt him out by the heeles no perswasion would haue drawne him to shew his face they are all so peremptory and plaine against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall bookes This was not vnknowne to the Cardinal who was thereby induced to thinke that S. Augustine tooke the word Canonicall in the larger sence as comprehending the Ecclesiasticall writings within the verge thereof Ma. Had it beene an error an the Iewes not to haue receiued these bookes as they did the Law and the Prophets I cannot thinke but that Christ or his Apostles would surely haue reproued so notable a crime seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the reprehension of lesser faults And whereas we receiue this maine benefit by the Apostacy of the Iewes that therby the world seeing them enemies vnto the Messias cannot but giue the greater credence to the bookes of th' old Testament without suspect of partiality which otherwise might haue beene doubted the adopting of these other Apocriphall into the Canon were as much as in vs lieth to vilifie th' authority of their authentique records who may not improbably be thought to haue taken in those that were adulterine as well as to haue degraded those that are found to haue beene diuine Min. If all other reasons were mute me thinkes the Author Matter and Manner of the history might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence The Author if wee may credit the x Vide Zanch. de diuin attrib lib. 4. ca. 4. enlarging Epitomizer of these bookes is y 2. Mac. 2.23 Iason Cirenaeus a z Spiritu sancto inspirati loquuti sunt sancti Dei homines 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21. heathen man for-sooth a fit Secretarie for the Court of heauen It seemes pen-men were then as scanty as sometimes a 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19. Smiths in Palestine This must needs bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which requireth so much b 2. Mac. 2. v. 26. watching sweating and pains in the refining Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis would haue eased all this toyle which is not to bee feared where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator As touching the matter it is wouen in a webbe of such palpable contradictions that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart to bee taken tripping in such contrary tales One while c 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16. Antiochus died for griefe in Babilon Another while hee was slaine in the Temple of d 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13. Nanea where his head was cut off And yet is not Antiochus out of his paine As if he had as many liues as a Cat you shal see him stalke once more vpon this historicall Stage and then at last fall downe and dye with a most noysome stinking smell consumed with e 2. Mach. c. 9. v. 9. Ducit ad inferos â— educit wormes Indeede I must needs say he is very modest in the deliuery He writes not f Math. 7. v. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one who had the custody of the mint to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stampe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pleasure and recreation of the reader Had he had the warrant of the spirit hee would haue spared the labour of begging fauor and suing out a pardon for which hee is faine to crowch to the Readers gentlenesse Ma. Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say that they are receiued profitably if they bee read Soberly For if they should bee read with a precipitate opinion as Canonicall Scriptures in the strict sence the many leakes which are transparant in them would goe very neere to sinke th' authority of the rest Iab It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius that the Christians gaue that authority to those h Pag. 55. bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of sacred Authority Otherwise S. Augustins opposition The Iews did not but The Church doth were vaine Ma. The
opposition if any stands not in the degree but rather beareth the sence of a preuention For as much as the Iewes from whom the old sacred records were originally deriued would not enter them into the Diuine Canon it could not but occasion many considerate Christians vtterly to cashere them For the auoiding heereof S. Augustine seeing they might tend to some good vse tells vs that albeit the Iewes did not receiue them as Canonicall yet the Church receiued them not vnprofitably if they bee read soberly He saith not that the Church receiued them into higher authority then the Iewes but as books which might serue to as good purpose if they were read warily amongst vs as they did among the Iewes Neither doth hee say Recipienda est Scriptura Machabeorum as implying an vndeniable necessity but recepta est non mutiliter as noting a voluntary acceptance vpon a probable end with th' addition of this Prouiso if they be read soberly which howsoeuer you otherwise deeme cannot be fitly spoken of Canonicall writ which is necessarily to be embraced and is alwaies profitable to the Church which euermore bringeth Sobriety to the reading thereof neither is it any lesse behoofull to the Church though it be peruerted by reprobates to their owne damnation But as for humane writings the case is otherwise they are then onely receiued profitably by the Church when they are read warily A good man by attributing too much to an vnwarrantable ground of which sort the sacred writ affoordeth none may make a faulty inference which mooued Saint Augustine to insinuate that there are rocks by which he would haue vs warily to saile Nick. What if wee admit for disputation sake that S. Augustine deliuereth this as his resolute opinion in Iabals sence I would gladly learne what reason hee can yeeld why this should ouer-sway the ioynt iudgement and consent of so many far more ancient Fathers who teach the contrary Iab i Pag. 59. Caluin doth allow him the style of the best and most faithfull witnesse of Antiquity how can hee then be excused from great temerity if heerein he erred Ma. Errare humanum est The spirit of God alone is free from errour The k It was lawful to contradict the Fathers and doubt of them Guido de Haeres c. 7. Church euen in his daies was somewhat clowded with the mists of superstition Had he not an Eagles eye he could hardly haue discouered those beames which Antichrist had then laid in the way It was hard if not impossible for one man to discerne euery mote which then houered in the aire of the Papall regiment Iab l Pag. 60. This sentence may suffice alone to giue any Iudicious eare to vnderstand your opposition with S. Augustine Ma. Wee honour his memory as a blessed Saint from whose pen the Church of God hath receiued ineffable good and wee account it not the least part of our happinesse that for one seeming testimony which you wrest to serue your owne turne wee are able to shew a million to right our cause Iab Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Catholique doctrine concerning the point of Merit m Pag. 62. Doth he not say that as the wages due to sinne is death so the wages due to righteousnesse is life eternall And againe The reward cannot go before merits nor bee giuen before a man be worthy thereof yea that God should be vniust if he that is truly iust be not admitted into his kingdome Can any Catholique speak more plainly then he doth of Merits Min. These places doe not any whit crosse our doctrine against merit The Analogy which he makes betweene Sinne and Death Righteousnesse and life consisteth not in the quality of Desert but of the n Deest gratiae quiâ— quid meritis deputas Nolo meritum quod gratiam excludit Bâ—â—n super Caen. Ser. 67. effect Augustine saith not that the wages of righteousnesse which is Heauen is as due as the wages of sinne which is death th' Analogy is in regard of the consequent effect to signifie that heauen the wages which is due to righteousnesse shall as truly bee bestowed vpon the faithfull as Hell or Death shall bee inflicted vpon the wicked For if wee consider th'equality of desert and condignity there is according to the doctrine of S. Augustine a threefold disproportion One in respect of the Rewarder whose rewarding of sinne with eternall torment is the proper act of Iustice in it selfe Whereas his rewarding of Righteousnesse vpon them whom he hath accepted vnto Grace is only the Iustice of his mercifull o In illis opera saa glorificant In â—â—les opera non sua condemnant Fulgen. ad Mon. lib. 1. promise Secondly in respect of the Subiect for the Sinne which a wicked man committeth is properly his owne but the righteousnesse of the Regenerate is the gift p Opera bona habemus non ex nobis nata sed à Deo donata Fulg. ibidem of God so that the reward of death is more properly due to sinne then is the reward of life vnto righteousnesse Thirdly in regard of the obiect because the sinne of the wicked is perfectly imperfect but the righteousnes of the most godly is imperfectly perfect that is but a stained goodnesse wherefore there cannot be an equall condignity in both Ma. We grant that the reward cannot goe before merites nor bee giuen before a man bee worthy thereof but Iabal must learne that these merits are q Mors eius meritum meum Aug. in Manual c. 22. Christs by the Imputation whereof we that are altogether vnworthy of our selues are made through Gods gracious acceptance of his sonnes obedience worthy of this reward Otherwise Non sunt condignae passiones our greatest sufferings are not worthy of the least degree of glory which shall bee reuealed to the sonnes of God r Ephes 2. v. 8. Gratia enim saluatis estis saith the Apostle For you are saued by Grace through Faith and that not of your selues Min. Fulgentius makes the case plaine in this golden sentence Å¿ De praedest 〈◊〉 Montâ—tum lib. 1 Vnus Deus est qui gratis et vocat praedestinatos et iustificat vocatos et glorificat iustificatos and againe t Ibid. Sicut gratiae ipsius opus est cum facit iustos sic gratiae ipsius erit cum faciet gloriosos u Aug. in Psal 83. Debitorem se ipse Dominus fecit saith S. Augustine non accipiendo sed promittendo non ei dicitur Redde quod accepisli sed quod promisisti God hath made himselfe a Debtor not by receauing any thing from vs but by the passing of his promise vnto vs wee say not to him Render that thou hast receiued but giue that which thou hast promised And the same x Tract 3. in Iohan Father Non pro merito acciptes vitam aeternam sed pro gratia Thou shalt not receiue life eternall for merit but for grace Nick.