THE VNREASONABLENESSE of the separation Made apparant by an examination of Mr. Iohnsons pretended reasons published an 1608. Wherby hee laboureth to iustifie his schisme from the Church Assemblies of England 1. Tim 1.5.6.7 The end of the commandement is charitie out of a pure heart and of a good conscience and of fayth vnfayned From which some hauing swaâ—â—ed haue turned a side vnto vaine Jangling desiring to bee teachers of the Law vnderstanding neither what they say nor wherof they affirme AT DORT Printed by George Waters 1614. TO THE WELL meaning Reader THink not euill if thou meanest well wee intend not to insult over him that is downe or to pursue a man that is flying of himselfe but to lend him a hand that knoweth not well which way to take Mr. Iohnson in deed is rather to bee pitied then much opposed wee need but stand still as lookers on hee falleth willingly on his owne sword but that his fall may bee a rising againe not onely to himself but to others also both armour-bearers followers of his it was iudged necessarie to guide them a litle while their heads are dizzy bring them fairly from of the bogge they haue stood on It is not Mr. Johnson that is dealt with alone for change the name onely and put in Mr. Ainsworth or any such themselues will not say but the reasons are theirs and the answer to them as well as to him Jt may bee that they hauing lesse acquaintance with logicall formes of dispute will looke for large discourse or heaped quotations out of scripture But reason will tell them that many words doe rather hide them vntie the knot of a syllogisme and much quoting may proue some-thing but answereth not directly to any thing Now the wrighters meaning was not to gather proofes but to poynt at the weaknesse of such as these men haue gathered Read therfore with vnderstanding and learn a mean betwixt All and Nothing THE MAINE CONclusion of Mr. Johnsons Reasons as it is propounded by himself is this That it is not lawfull to heare or haue any spiritual communion wit the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande WHich hee laboureth to proue 1. By Reasons as hee fancieth drawne from Scripture and other Testimonies 2. By Argumentes collected from the writeinges of them whom hee stileth in disdaine forward Preachers And this hee performeth as far as the remainders of his logick skill will giue him leaue in moode and figure But the figure for the moste part is of his owne shapeing such as neuer came forth of any logick Schooles yet feing the truth hee opposeth receaueth noe disadvantage therby I can for my owne parte be content that his Syllogismes stil retaine those formes and figures that hee hath put vpon them and spare the labour of Translating them into nue And so without any further expence of wordes I come to the Examination of the first sort of Reasons THE FIRST SORTE OF Reasons from the Scriptures and other Testimonies Examined The first Reason Examined All are bound in the worship of God to heare and communicate onely with that ministery which Christ hath giuen and set in his Church for that worke But the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England is not that which Christ hath giuen and set in his Church for the worke of his Ministery Therfore it is not lawfull for any in the worship of God to heare or communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Answere Not to contend about the Proposition I deny the Assumption and affirme That the present Ministery of our Church Assemblies how soever it may in some particuler parts of the execution happely be defectiue in some places is for the substance thereof that very same Ministery which Christ hath set in his Church for the worke of his ministery whether it bee the ministery of those which hee calleth the forward Preachers or of those which being qualified according to the true inteÌ„t of the lawe do subscribe and conforme according to the laws of the State Fr. Ihon. The Ministery which Christ hath giuen and set in his Church is of Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11.12 But the present Ministery of the Church of England is none of these spoken of Eph. 4.11.12 Therefore it is not the Ministery which Christ hath giuen and set in his Church Answere The present Ministery of the Church of England 1. of the Church Assemblies of England is the Ministery of Pastors and Teachers Fr. Iohn The present Ministery of the Church of England is of Prelates Priestes and Deacons But nether Prelates Priestes nor Deacons of that Church are Pastors or Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11.12 Therefore it is none of those spoken of Eph. 4.11.12 Answere I denye both Preposition and Assumption For 1. Though our Preletes doe sometimes voluntarily and occasionnally performe the same worke and seruice in some of our Church Assemblies which our ordinary Ministers doe yet their Prelaticall or Episcopall office or Ministery is not the proper Ministery of any of our Church Assemblies But in the intent of our lawes their propre Ministery consists in overseeing the Ministers and Ministery of our Church Assemblies 2. Though sometimes our Ministers be called PRIESTS and DEACONS yet the MINISTERY vnder those names assigned vnto them and which they exercise is not the proper and essentiall Ministery of either Priestes or Deacons but of Pastors and Teachers Soe that they are onely in aequivocation and name or Metaphorically Priestes and Deacons But really Pastors and Teachers and therfore such Priests and Deacons may bee and indeede and truth are such Pastors and Teachers as are spoken of Eph. 4.11.12 Fr. Iohn The Preposition is manifest 1. The Law of that Church admitteth not any other Ministery but that of their Prelacie Priesthoode and Deaconry receaued amongst them selues or from the Papistes 2. Their Constitution is such as all the Ministers of that Church must bee Priests or Deacons and theise also either in a Superior degree as the Prelates Arch. Bishops Suffraganes c. or in an inferior as Parsons Vicars Stipendaries Chaplins Answere 1. It is not necessary that the Ministery of a contrey or nation should be alwaies such as the law establisheth or admitteth The Ministery at least in some places may be good though the law in generall should admit and establishe such a one as is bad as on the contrarye side the ministery may at some times and in some cases be bad though the laws admit establish neuer soe good for the Gouernors of Churches and common wealths who haue the dispensation of lawes may in their Christian wisedome and moderation permitt a ministery in sundrie respects different from that which the laws require yea and our owne Gouernors in fact haue permitted the ministery of some who neuer receiued ordination either from Papists or themselues And hee cannot be ignorant but that some by connivencie are yet suffred
him such a Ministery in sundry of our Church Assemblies of which all theise points may bee truely verified their conformitie to the State and their sinne therin if any bee not withstanding The second Argument The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is not the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Therfore it is a sinne to seperate from the same The consequent must bee true vntill hee can bring forth any other exceptions against our Ministery then such as appertaine to the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is proued thus The Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Antichrist is of Priests and Deacons But the Ministery of our Church Assemblies is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons Therfore it is not the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Proposition is his owne The Assumption if I should follow his learning I might proue thus The Ministery of true Pastors and Teachers is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons But such is the Ministery of our Assemblies Ergo and for the profe of the Assumption I might send him back againe to my first Argument But I wil leaue such a kind of disputing to himself as his owne peculier and proue it otherwise thus That Ministery which in the maine and essentiall faculties offices therof is opposite to the maine and essential faculties functions offices of Priests and Deacons is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons But such is our Ministery Therfore it is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons The Proposition is vndeniable The Assumption may bee proued thus That Ministery which is opposite to the Sacrafice of the Masse is opposite to the maine and essentiall faculties functions and offices of Priests and Deacons Such is our Ministery Therfore it is opposite to the maine and essentiall faculties of Priests and Deacons I doe not see which of theis Premises hee can with any colourable reason deny I will therfore for beare to proceed further in this Argument vntill I see what hee can say against it The third Argument That Ministery which professing Christ by maintaining his covenant with the seales of it doth directly and professedly warre against the Beast and against all that worship his Image and receave his marke in their forehead and hand cannot without sin bee seperated from Such is our Ministery Therfore it cānot without sin be seperated from The Proposition is true For noe Ministery so professing Christ but the true Ministery of Iesus Christ doth directly and professedly warre in manner forme aforesaide The Assumption I proue thus That Ministery which so professing opposeth it self professedly to the Pope of Rome as that great Antichrist which directly and expresly renounceth all Ecclesiasticall homage vnto him or any of his professed cleargie That denieth and disputeth against most effectually all the maine and foundamentall points of Popery which opposeth it selfe to the vttermost of the strength and Power therof to all the professed frends of the Pope and Church of Rome That houldeth and maintaineth all the members therof to bee hereticks and Idolators and in the state of condemnation and such as no good Christian ought to cōmunicate spiritually withall That Ministery I say doth directly warre against the beast and against al that worship his Image c. But all this is donne in and by our Ministery Therefore it doth directly and professedly warre against the Beast c. I know not which of theis Propositions hee can with any face deny but deny either when hee will I shall bee readie to proue them The fourth Argument That Ministery which deriveth the power and functions therof from Christ cannot without sinne bee seperated from The Ministery of our Church Assemblies deriveth the Power and functions therof from Christ Therfore it cannot without sinne bee seperated from The profes of the maine proposition of this fourth Argument will serue to proue this Proposition The Assumptiō is as sufficiently proued by my third and first Argument as his contrary is by his third and first But I further proue it thus If the Power and functions of our Ministery for the substance therof bee the very same for which Christ ascended vp into Heaven to procure for the edification of his body the Church then doth it for the substance therof derive the Power and functions therof from Christ But the first is true therfore the later is true also The Consequent of the Proprosition is vndeniable The Assumption is as vndeniable Except hee can shew any substantiall difference betweene the one and the other The fift Argument That Ministery which worketh vpon the Consciences of men by a true spirituall calling cannot without sinne bee seperated from Such is our Ministery Therfore it cannot without sinne bee seperated from The Proposition cannot bee gaine said The Assumption is proued by my 2. Argument but I further proue it in this manner That Ministery which worketh vpon the Consciences of men onely by a spirituall gift and grace giuen by Christ and directed by the word of God doth worke vpon the consciences of men by a true Spirituall calling Theis doth the Ministery of our Church Assemblies Therfore it worketh vpō the consciences of men by a true Spirituall calling The truth of either of theis Propositions I shal easily proue if they bee deinde The sixt Argument The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is noe strang Ministery Therfore it is a sinne to seperate from it This Anticedent is better proued by my first Argument then his contrary Assumption is by his first Argument I proue it not withstanding thus That Ministery which for the substance therof was practized by Christ the Apostles many worthy and famous Martyrs and witnesses of Iesus Christ in Church Assemblies is no strange Ministery Such is our Ministery for the substance therof Therfore it is no strange Ministery Surely hee will never deny the Proposition Nether can hee deny the Assumption except he can shew a Substantiall difference between the Ministeries aforesaide The seaventh Argument That Ministery which is from Heauen cannot without sinne bee seperated from The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is from Heaven Therfore it cānot without sinne be seperated frō The Proposition is plaine The Assumption is proued by all the former Arguments which in his logick Scholes in his owne cause is profe good enough But I ad a further profe That Ministery which in all the parts and Power therof is principally excercized and directed to bring men to Heaven is a Ministery from Heaven Such is our Ministery aforesaid Therfore it is from Heaven The Proposition is firme It being not possible that that Ministery which is from Earth or hell should bee principally directed and excercized in all the parts and Powers therof to bring men to Heaven The Assumption may not bee denied except hee can shew in what other thing it is more principally excercized and to what other end directed which hee can never doe AN ANSWER TO CERTAINE DEMANDES OFTEN PVBLISHED by M. Iohnson the
seeing hee saith nothing throughout this in effect that hee hath not all ready saide in some one or other of his former bookes Fr. Ioh. pag. 8. The Ministery of Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 The 2. Arg. is the ordinary and perpetuall Ministery giuen by Christ to his Church and such as the Princes of the Earth nether may nor ever shall bee able to abolishe seing Christ hath appoynted it to continue to the end of the worlde But the Prelacie Preesthood and Deaconrye of the Church of England is not the ordinarije and perpetuall Ministery giuen by Christ to his Church but such as the Princes of the Earth may and ought to abolish out of their Dominions Rev. 17 16 1. Tim. 2.2 Rom. 13 4. with 1. Kin. 23.3 deu 12.2 Psa 72.1 Therfore the Preesthood Prelacie and deaconrye of the Church of England is not the Ministery of Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 Answere Idenye the Assumption Vnderstanding by Prelacie Preesthood and deaconrye The ordinary Ministery of our Church Assemblies against which hee propounds to himself to Dispute And aunswer That it is the ordinary and perpetuall Ministery giuen by Christ to his Church and such as the Princes of the Earth are bounde by Gods Lawes to maintaine and protect by their Authoritie And if their bee any corruption in and aboute the same which they ought to abolish that yet they are accidentiall and personall and not soe Essentiall as that they doe Distroy the Ministery The places of Scripture anexed to the Assumptiō for the proofe therof are all abused and profaned for not on of them doth any way soe much as colourablye proue either of the Clauses in the Assumption but only they proue in generall That the Idolatry and Idolatrious Ministery of Antechrist is to be abolished Soe that the man in his symplicitie takes it as graunted That our Ministerye is such an Idolatrious Ministery which is the maine matter in Controuersy and in effect the generall question of his whole booke Fr. Iohn pag 9. The Office of Pastors and Teachers ordayned by Christ in his Testament The. 3. Arg. are such as did or could stand with the offices of the Apostels Prophetes and Euangelists But the offices of the Prelates Priests or deacons of the Church of England are not such as did or could stand with or vnder the offices of Apostles Prophets and Euangelists which if any deny let him shew the Countrary by the Scriptures Light hath no fellowship with darknes nor Christ with Antichrist And suppose the Apostles were a liue in their Persons and were in England It were worth the knowing whether they and the ordinances giuen by them should giue place to the Prelates and their Canons and whether they should be suffred to preach c. without subscribing and conforming Their Canons vrge all vpon paine of Excommunication ipso facto Therfore they are not the Pastors and Teachers ordained by Christ in his nue Testament Answere 1. What a shamelesse man is this to affirme That our Ministery nether did nor could stand with the offices of the Apostles c. and for proofe therof bid vs If we deny it shew the contrary by Scriptures Doth not the burden of prouing by the very lawe of Common Reason ly vpon the accuser If I should in like manner reproch his Ministery say it is a Ministery that standeth vpon Sorcery witch croft and Coniuration and for proofe therof bid him If hee deny it shew the countrary by Scripture were I not worthy at least to bee laughed out of the Scholes This is a sufficient justification of our Ministery that such Malitions aduersaries therof whoe woulde seeme soe expert in the Scriptures are no better able by Scripture to proue their vnchristian accusation 2. It is true that light hath noe followship with darknes nor Christ with Antichrist Yet ther is no light in men in this life but it is mingled with some darknesse and the best Christians that are or euer haue bene since the Apostles times may be infected with some points of Antichristianisme Many of the late Martyrs since the revealing of Antichrist were worthy lights and renoumed Christians and yet the light of many of them was mingled with more darknesse and their Christianitie with more Antichristianisme then can be founde in our Ministery 3. Our Bishops haue as good reason to make the like supposition against him and as much worthy the inquirie that were if the Apostles c. were a liue now in their owne Persons where hee liueth and should professe the Church Assemblies in Englande to be true Churches and their Ministery in generall to be a lawfull Ministery and their worship for substaunce to bee a true worship whether M. Iohnson and his Church would suffer them to be soe much as priuate members of their Society much more to preach c. 4. Though our Bishops should herein be soe impious as to advance in such a manner their owne Authority and ordinances aboue the Apostles Yet what is that to proue that the Preesthoode and Deaconry of the Ministers of our Church Assemblies who many of them in theis pointes are meere patients and esteeme of theis things as burdens cannot stand with the offices of Apostles c. doth M. Iohnson think that none of our Ministers in England would suffer the Apostles to preach in their Cures without wearing a Surplice If they might haue their owne wils or should this any whit derogate from their Ministery that the Bishops therin would not suffer them to haue their will 5. It is besids the present question and a needlesse thing to spend time in justifying the Canons herein If the Bishops therin haue gonne too far it may seeme to bee the fault of the Parsons rather then of the Prelacie it selfe and therfore to make and vrge such Canons and Traditions as are a fore saide doth not proue but that for all that the Prelacie in of it selfe might stand well enough with the offices of the Apostles c. for those offices may of themselues If their bee noe other impediment stand well one with an other which in the actions therof doe not but by accident only one overthrowe or oppugne the other Fr. Iohn pag. 9.10 The offices of true Pastors The 4. Arg. and Teachers are by the ordinaunce of Christ set in the Church and imployd in the Ministery of the word Sacraments Church Gouerment soe as they may not with their Ecclesiasticall functions receaue Cyvill offices and callings nor take vpon them princely Titles and dignities Eph. 4.11 1. Pet. 5.1 Rom. 12.2.4 Luk. 12.14 and 22.25 1. Cor. 12.5.8 1. Tim. 4.13.15.16 2. Tim. 2.4 But the officies of Prelates Priests and Deacons of the Church of England are not soe but by their owne Constitution we set in the Church and imployd in the Ministery soe as they may also receaue Cyvill offices and Callings as to be Iustices of Peace c.
Spirituall Communion with them And wher hee saith that this is nothing for any fals Ministery neuer ordained of the Lord such as ours is proued to bee Noe man ever brought it to proue any such matter But onely to proue that such corruptions as are in our Ministery ought noe more to hinder communion with our Ministers then the corruptions in the Ministery of the Scribes and Pharesees did hinder the communion with their Ministery and that the corruptions in our Ministery doe noe more argue our Ministers to bee fals Ministers then their corruptions did argue them to bee fals Ministers Nether hath hee brought any Argument to proue our Ministers fals Ministers but either such corruptions as the Scribes and Pharesees were guilty of in as high if not a higher degree or in respect of their names in that they are called Priests and Deacons So that if the Scribes Pharesees were true Ministers not with standing their names and other corruptions our Ministers cannot bee fals in regard of the like names and corruptions furthermore if to be expounders of the Law bee sufficient to argue their Ministery to bee a true Ministery nothwithstanding their names of Scribes and Pharesees with other vile grosse corruptions why may not the Preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments bee sufficient to argue our Ministers to bee true Pastors and Teachers notwithstāding that in the mouth of the law they are sometimes called Priests and Deacons For otherwise in the mouths of men euen of the Bishops themselues they are not so called except sometimes by Metaphoricall allusions to the Leviticall Preesthood But they are vsually so called onely by profane Atheists or ignorant people with whom in this point the Seperation goeth hand in hand 2. To bee a Pharesie was not onely as hee minceth the matter to be of a speciall Sect amongst the Iewes that pretended more strict obseruances of the law then others But also which as it is to be feared with a fraudulent minde hee concealeth to joine mainy humaine Traditions and will-worships to the worship and seruice of God wherby they are saide by Christ himselfe in vaine to worship God and to make the commaundements of God of none effect making more accompt of and vrging with more severity the said Traditions then Gods owne laws And in like manner wee affirme That to bee a Priest and Deacon in the intent of our law whatsoeuer the words may ring to the contrary in some mens eares is at the worst to bee such a kinde of pastor and Teacher as is content over and besids those duties of the Ministery which Christ requires of them to yeald conformity also to humaine Traditions of noe worse nature and quality in themselues then those which the Pharesies vsed in or about Gods seruice wherin to suppose that they sin yet cannot this their sin be so repugnant to the Ministery of Christ as that of the Scribes and Pharesies which they are forced to acknowledge to be a true Ministery In that they were the vrgers of Traditions wheras our Ministers for the most part onely yeald vnto them either in obeidience and loue or feare of the Magistrat that commaundes them Lastly wheras hee argues them true Ministers by this that though they were very corrupt yet the did still hould that euery Ministery must bee from Heaven and not of men It deserues rather to bee laughed at then answered For may not yea doe the falsest Ministery that are or ever haue bene hould so much at least in such a sence and meaning as the Pharesies might hould it And can hee name any amongst vs that houlds not as much THE SECOND REASON EXAMINED Fr. Ihon. NOne may heare or haue any Spiritually communion with the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo None may heare haue any Spirituall communion with the same Answere I graunt the Proposition taking the words in the plaine and common sence viz. vnderstanding by the Ministery of Antichrists Apostacie The administration and dispensation of the things of Antichrist otherwise to communicate spiritually with any Ministers what soeuer onely in the holy things of Christ is not to communicate with the Ministery of Antichrists Apostacy no though the Ministers be Ministers therof Nether do the 5. Reasons following whereby hee needlesly proues his preposition proue it vnlawfull to heare or haue any spirituall communion with the Ministers of Antichrist then when they Minister the things of Christ For the profe of the Assumption hee makes a terrible muster if no lesse then 7. Arguments But let vs pull vp our Spirets and see what is in them one by one Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Deacons and Priests ordained by the Prelats thervnto is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy The 1. Arg. The Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande is such a Ministery Ergo It is of Antichrists Apostasie Answere Hee brought this very Argument to proue the first Reason and now hee brings it againe for a profe of his second Reason And is not this a learned kind of reasoning when hee will make a shew of multitudes of Reasons against vs and yet all of them come to one issue and lie vpon one ground and depend vpon one profe so that the overthrowe of one is the overthrowe of all But his childish vanitie herein wee shall better perceaue in that which followeth Both the Proposition and Assumption are fals For 1. It is not necessary that the Ministery of Priests and Deacons though ordained by Antichrist himselfe should be the Ministery of his Apostacy But not withstanding his ordination their Ministery may be the Ministery of Iesus Christ As was the Ministery of Luther Husse Wickliffe and others 2. The Ministery of such manner of Priests and Deacons as the Prelats ordaine or by the lawes ought to ordaine is the true Ministery of Iesus Christ and for the substance therof directly contrary to the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy 3. The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is not as I haue shewed before the Ministery of Priests and Deacons properly so taken but of Pastors and Teachers The Proposition hee proueth as followeth by two Arguments Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Deacons and Priests which accompts it selfe to bee Christs and yet was not set by Christ in his Church for the worke of his Ministery is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Such is the Ministery of Deacons and Priests ordained by the Prelats therevnto Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Answere This Argument is it which hee bringeth for the first Reason of all and here hee brings it to proue that which before was brought to proue it For hee proues That our Ministery is not set by Christ in his Church by this because it is the Ministery of Priests and Deacons and so by consequent of Antichrists Apostasie Here hee proues That the Ministery of Priests and Deacons is the Ministery of Antichrists
vs vnto pag. 40. proued that our Ministers do not obey Christ in his ordinance of Ministery worship and Gouerment yea though it should be graunted that they execute the Ministery and Gouerment of other Arch Bishops and L. Bishops besids Christ And though they should bee Arch Deacons Parsons Vicars reading stinted prayers c. For all this may bee donne yea and they may sinne some way in doing all this and yet they may obey Christ in all the maine essentiall and substantiall pointes of his Ministery worship and Gouerment Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Christians which is opposed against and exalted aboue the holy things Ministery ordinances of Christ The 3. Arg. is the Ministery of Autichrists Apostasie 2. Thes 2.3.4 with 1. Ioh. c. Such is the Ministery of their Church Assemblies Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is euident 1. Aman may peaceably receaue or administer their holy things in their manner by vertue of their Deacoury or Priesthoode receaued from their Prelats But if any doe administer or receaue the holy things of God by the offices of Pastors and Teachers entred into and executed according to the Testament of Christ they are reviled and persecuted 2. Their Prelacie Priesthoode and Deaconry is the very meanes of thrusting away and keeping out of the Church the Ministery and order which Christ hath appointed which some of themselues hereto fore haue acknowledged and written Answere 1. The Ministery of our Church Assemblies being answerable to the lawes is not a Ministery exalted in any thing aboue the Ministery of Christ but the very same in nature and qualitie though in some accidents it may differ In which difference if ther bee any sinne it is of ignorance or infirmitie in the Ministers which may in as high or a higher degree befall vnto the best Ministers that ever were since the Apostles times 2. The holy things which they administer are the holy things of Iesus Christ and not of their owne by vertue of that Priesthoode and Deaconry which they haue receaued they may not administer any other holy things but what Christ Iesus requireth The other things which they administer are iudged by them which administer them onely things indifferent and matters of order wherein if they which vse them be deceaved it is but such an error as worthy Martyrs of Iesus Christ haue bene subject vnto and not sufficient to make their Ministery an Antichristian Ministery 3. The Prelats doe not persecute any true Pastors and Teachers so much for Ministering any of the holy things of Christ as for refusing to conforme to some speciall ordinances of their owne which they doe not hould to bee holy things but matters of order which by reasons they haue indevoured to proue to bee so wherein the practis of Prelats is noe more extreame then their owne who censure as farr as they can in all extremity all them whoe doe not in al points conforme and agree to their owne orders ceremonies and Church policie 4. It can never bee proued that the admittance of this Ministery is a hindrance of a better but rather it is a meanes to keepe out a wors and away in time to bring in a better if a better bee to be brought in for by yealding to some things that may be bettered is so wished and indeavored a dore is opened to Minister many holy things which otherwise should bee shut And if it bee as lawfull for vs to conjecture as for him Their general Schisme and rent from this Ministery hath bene one maine and principall meanes to vphoulde it as it is Fr. Iohn The Ministery which is such as in the nature and condition therof it pertaineth not to any body or estate either civill or ecclesiasticall but only to the body or kingdome of Antichrists Apostasie The 4. Arg. Such is the Ministery of their Church Assemblies Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is clear in as much as their Prelacie Priesthood and Deaconry is such that the Civill State may bee perfect without them and the Church of Christ may bee compleat without them onely the body and Kingdome of the Romish Antichrist cannot bee full and furnished in all the offices therof without them Answere For Answere to the Assumption 1. Concerning the Prelacie though it bee not any Ministery of any of our Church Assemblies and therfore Idly vrged in this and all the other Arguments this may bee saide 1. That the principall and most honorable parts therof is onely vsurped by Antichrist and doth not appertaine to him but to the Iurisdiction of the Supreame Magistrats and States 2. That the State of a Christian common wealth cannot bee perfect without some generall visitors and overseers of Churches 3. That though a perticuler Church or congregation may bee compleat without them yet for the necessary vnion and agreement of the severall Churches in Christian Provinces and Kingdoms it is fit and agreable to reason and noe wayes repugnant to Gods word that vnder the Supreame Magistrate ther should bee other Governors to protect and incorrage those Ministers and Churches which doe their dutie and to punish those which shall offende Wherin if either through warrant of humaine lawes or some personall corruption they shall in some things passe their bounds they doe no more then any other officers either Civill or Ecclesiasticall through frailtie infirmitie may doe 4. That the kingdome of Antichrist cannot be furnished in all the offices therof without the Authority of Civill Magistrats and therfore this seemes to make as much against the calling of civill Magistrats as Bishops 2. Concerning the Ministery of our Priests and Deacons such as it is or by lawe ought to be in our Church Assemblies the Church of Christ cannot bee compleat without it yea it is noe Church without it Nether can the kingdome of Antichrist stand before it Nether will hee ever proue the contrary Fr. Iohn The Ministery which is such as the body of Antichrist the man of sinne The 5. Arg. cannot without it be compleat in all the members and canonicall functions therof is the Ministery of Autichrists Apostasie Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is proued by the Canons Pontificall and estate of the Romish Antichrist Answere This Argument is but the taile of the former therfore needs noe further Answer it being cut of in the answer to the former The Canons Pontificall State of the Romish Antichrist doe manifest the countrary which haue and doe curse and persecute with sworde and fier such a Ministery as is the Ministery of our Church Assemblies if it bee in all points to the intent of the law Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Deacons Priests and Prelates which accounts it selfe to be Christs and yet indeed is such as the Kings and Rulers of the Earth may and ought to suppresse
onely that which they iudge lawfull being as ready as any of the seperatiō to suffer rather then practis approue or assent vnto any thing which they judge vnlawfull and vnwarrantable Obj. But suppose they had some other lawfull calling yet they also retaining this vnlawfull calling of the Prelats this were but to halt betweene two opinions and to set their threshould by Gods threshoulds and their posts by Gods posts Ans How can such bee said to retaine the vnlawfull calling of the Prelats which protest against the same professe that they preach not by that but by another calling But if ther bee any such that exercise their Ministery by another calling besids that of the Prelats they therin refuse obeidience and conformitie to what soever in the Prelats calling they judge vnlawfull and so doe not joyne an vnlawfull and a lawfull calling together but reject the corruptions retaine the good and supplie the defect with another calling and this is the worste that can bee made of it But this is not to joyne mans Treshoulds to Gods c. but clean contrary to seperate them as much as may bee And how can they bee saide to halt betweene two opinions when so far onely as the truth in their iudgement and opinion is established by publique lawes they imbrace it acknowledging their subjection to the same lawes and contrarily wher they judge that the law swerves from the truth they take another course But still hee begs this which is the maine controversie that our Ministers haue receaued an vnlawfull calling from the Prelates In the next place hee labors to proue by reasons that howsoever some pretend another calling yet it is evident that the execute all the duties of their Ministeries by virtue of their calling taken from their Prelats But what of that This will stand him in noe steed vnlesse it bee given him of almes That every Ministery executed by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats is an vnlawfull and an Antichristian Ministerie For proue it hee cannot And if wee should except this also bee given him That our Ministery is executed ONLY by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats and not by any other power or virtue besids taken either from God or man But let vs see his reasons 1. They cannot stand publique Ministers except they receaue of the Prelats the Priesthood and Deaconry a foresaid 2. They are excommunicated ipso facto if they affirme that they whoe are made Bishops Deacons and Priests are not lawfully made vntill thie haue some other calling 3. The people haue not the liberty of the Churches of Christ nor power in this their estate to chose and submit vnto the true and lawfull Ministery appointed by Christ 4. Without and against the peoples consent they are by the Prelats a lone silenced depriued and degraded from exercisiing any Ministery in those Assemblies Theis reasons doe not proue That they exercise their ministery ONLY by virtue of a calling receaved frō the Prelats and therfore whether true or fals are nothing to the purpose and vnworthy any further Answer After this hee fetcheth another Rode out and laboureth to proue that our Ministers ought not to suffer themselues to bee silenced and deposed from their publique Ministery no not by lawfull Magistrats which is not onely fals and seditious as shall appeare afterwarde but idle and impertinent to the present controversie for if it were true that Ministers ought not to doe in this case as ours doe yet this doth not argue any corruption in the calling of their Ministery but a weacknesse onely in the Persons that execute it in yealding further from their owne right then they neede to doe But let vs consider the perticulers that hee objecteth against our Ministers in this respect Obj. The Apostles being true Ministers of Christ would not at the commandement of lawfull Magistrats leaue to preach much lesse should true Ministers at the appointement of vsurping Prelats Nether did the Apostles make their imediate calling from God the ground of their refusall but this That they ought to obey God rather then man which is a duty required of all Ministers and Christians Ans 1. Wher hee distinguisheth between silencing depriving by Prelats and lawfull Magistrats it is in our case wher the Prelats doe it by Authority and commission from lawfull Magistrats a distinction without a difference 2. Though the Apostles did not assigne their imidiate calling from God as the ground of their refusall in so many letters and sillables yet that which they doe assigne is by implication and in effect the same with it for it is as much as if they had said God himselfe hath imposed this calling vpon vs and not man therfore except wee should rather obey man then God wee may not forbeare this office which hee hath imposed vpon vs. For opposing the obeidience of God to the obeidience of man hee therin pleads a calling from God and not from man otherwise if they had receaved a calling from man there had bene incongruitie in the answer considering that in common sence and reason they ought so far forth to obey men forbidding them to exercise a calling as they exercise the same by virtue of that calling els by this reason A Minister should not ceas to preach vpon the commandemēt of the Church that hath chosen him but should be bound to giue them also the same answer which they Apostles gaue which were absurd So that by this grosse conceit of M. Iohnsons their should bee no power in any sort of men whomsoever to depose a Minister from his Ministery but that notwithstāding any comandement of Church or State the Minister is to continue in his Ministery But for the further answer of this his ignorant conceit plainly tending to sedition wee are to know That though the Apostles Prophets and Euangelists preached publiquely where they were not hindred by open violence And did not nor might not leaue their Ministery vpon any humain Authoritie and commandement whatsoever because they did not enter into or exercise the same vpon the will and pleasure of any man whatsoever yet they never erected and planted publique Churches and Ministeries in the face of the Magistrate whether they would or noe or in dispite of them But such in respect of the eye of the Magistrat were as private and invisible as might bee Neither were some of the Apostles onely forbidden so as others should bee suffered to preach the same Ghospel in their places but the vtter abolishing of Christian Religion was manifestly intended in the silencing of them But our Churches wherof wee are Ministers are noe private secreat Assemblies such as hide themselues from the face of a persecuting Magistrat and State But are publique professing their worship doing their religion in the face of the Magistrate and State yea and by his contenance authoritie and protection And wee are set over those Churches not onely by a calling of
solemly to professe and acknowledge a spirituall homage to a vsurped Sperituall authoritie in the Church Can hee conclude his proposition from this doth it hence follow That because our Ministers in their Ministery if they conforme do in some measure in infirmitie or ignorance commit some such sinne That therfore it is a sinne to communicate with them in other divine things wherin they doe not commit the same sinne Hee tels vs That the Proposition may not bee gaine-said and why doth hee tell vs so because the Author of the 12. Arguments saith his Proposition may not bee denied As though there were just the same reason for the one as is for the other But why may not the Proposition Because all Spirituall power vsurped over the Churches of God is an Antichristian Authoritie to communicate with those Ministers which Professe Spirituall homage therunto is to communicate which such as professe Spirituall homage to Antichrist which must needs bee a sinne against Christ the head of the Church A deepe and learned Reason It can bee no sinne against Christ to communicate with them which in some action professe Spirituall homage to Antichrist except in their communion they also professe the same homage which like an ignorant disputant hee maketh noe question of As though to joine with one that doth evill in that which is good is alwaies to joine with him in the evill as though to joine with a glutton in eating necessary food were to joine with him in his gluttony or to joine with a blasphemer in the act of his blaspheming in rescuing an inocent out of the hands of Robbers were to communicate with him in his blasphemy But herein hee propounds onely to play the Ape imitating the Author of the twelue Arguments who saith his Proposition may not bee gaine said Because all Spirituall Power vsurped over the Churches of God is an Antichristian Authority and to professe spirituall homage thervnto is to professe spirituall homage vnto Antichrist which must needs bee a sinne But what is there no more Reason in this reason then in his If this bee a good Argument to proue that Proposition for which it is brought must his Argument needs bee as good to proue his proposition what because it is a sinne to professe Speciall homage vnto Antichrist must it needs also bee a sinne to communicate also with them who do professe some homage vnto Antichrist what to communicate with them in other matters The Assumption is as fals as the Proposition And hath noe ground for the twelue Arguments for though it were graunted That to vse the controverted ceremonies in manner and forme prescribed were even in the solemne worship of Christ by solemne signes to acknowledge a spirituall homage to a spirituall vsurped Authority of Arch Bishops and Bishops Yet doth it not ther-from follow That our Ministers in the administration of divine things doe the same for none of our Ministers do alwaies in the administration of divine things professe any such homage and some do never professe it And those who professe it when they doe professe it propound and intend noe such matter Hee proues the Assumption Thus They preach the word and administer the Sacraments by virtue of their calling receaved from the Arch-Bishops and Bishops c. The vanity wherof hath bene sufficiently shewed all-ready hee therin begging one of his stale reasons and not borrowing any thing from the twelue Arguments That which followeth wherby hee would proue That the Authority of L. Arch-Bishops and Bishops is vsurped which he makes the 2. parts of his Assumption is altogether idle and to noe purpose and donne onely of malice to the Author of the twelue Arguments for otherwise had hee intended herein the convincing of the said Author and of them which are of his minde which is the onely vse of the later sort of his reasons which can serve for noe other vse it had bene sufficient to haue produced his Assertion without his profes for that had bene enough to declare The Authors conceit Hee concludes crowing as if hee were some Cock of the game that had picked out the eyes and broken the necks of al that haue bene set against him And thus saith hee the cause is yealded by themselues And is it not thinke wee finely yealded is it not a feild stoutly wonne Is it any mervaille that hee makes such out cries against the wholl Christian world that will not follow such a leader But I leaue him to his vaine conceits of his owne cause Trusting that any sober and judicious Christian will bee able to discerne therin his fond and ignorant vanity And wher as in the Answer of his Reasons I haue omitted to answer to many perticuler passages All things considered I shall not neede to aske him pardon I should rather haue cause to expect thanks if I had to deale with a reasonable and good natured adversary REASONS OR ARGVMENTS TENDING TO PROVE THAT IT IS A sinne to seperate from the publique Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO Mr. IONHSONS OWNE Reasons AND VSVALLY IN THAT REgard made in the same moode and figure The first Argument It is a sinne to seperate from that Ministery which is set by Christ in his Church for the worke of his Ministerie But such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore it is a sinne to seperate from it The profes which he bringeth to confirme the maine Proposition of his first Reason will serue to proue this The Assumption may bee proued thus The Ministery of true Pastors and Teachers is the Ministery which is set by Christ in his Church The Ministery aforesaid is the Ministery of true Pastors and Teachers Therfore it is a Ministery set by Christ in his Church The Proposition is his owne The Assumption I proue thus The Ministery which hath in it all things essentiall to the office calling of true Pastors Teachers is the Ministery of true Pastors and Teachers But such is our Ministery Therfore it is the Ministery of true Pastors and Teachers I think he is not so simple as to deny the Proposition The Assumption is proued thus To haue such gifts as Christ ascended to heauen to giue for the worke of his Ministery To bee outwardly called to that worke by such a Church as professeth the fondamentall points of the Gospell To instruct the people committed to their Charge in the doctrine of the law and Gospell To administer vnto them the holy Sacraments of Christ And to bee their month in prayer vnto God Are all things essentially appertaining to the office of true Pastors and Teachers Such is the Ministery of our Assemblies Therfore it is the true Ministery of Pastors and Teachers If hee deny the Proposition hee must shew what other matters do essentially appartaine vnto their calling which yet hee hath not donne For confirmation of the Assumption it shall bee sufficient that wee can set forth vnto
in some points of their ministery to swerue from some observances which the lawes require The Argument therefore will not follow from the qualitie of the ministery except hee can proue that our Ministery is in all our Assemblies in all respects aimswerable to our lawes 2. The Preesthood which the law admitteth is not called Sacerdotius but Presbyteratus and the Priests are not called Sacerdotes or sacrificers but Presbyters as sufficiently appeares by our orders in Latin Therefore the Law doth not intende any true and proper Priesthood but onely boroweth the name to expresse an office of another kinde 3. To bee Persons Vicars Stipendaries Chaplins c. is not to haue a diuers kind of Priesthood or deaconry or Ministery as hee foolishly conceiteth onely varietie of Tytles is giuen to the same kind of Ministery in diuers persons in respect only of a diuers kinde of maintenaunce or dependance for Parsons are such as haue all tythes in kinde Vicars such as haue only the smaller Tyths the other being impropriated by the Magistrate for other purposes Stipendaries are such as are maintained by the voluntary Contribution of their Churches or by some such like meanes Chaplins are such as depend vpon great men The Ministery of all which If they duly execute the same is one and the same even that and noe other for substance which is proper to true Pastors and Teachers Fr. Iohn The Assumption is prooued by their 7. Arguments following The. 1 Arg. The Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 haue their offices callings administration and mainetenaunce ordained by Christ in his Testamente Eph. 4.8.11.12 and Rom. 12.7.8 Act. 14.23 and 20.17.28 Heb. 5.4 Col. 4.17 1. Thes 5 12.13.14 1. Pet. 5.1.2.3 Reu. 2. and 3. and 22.18 1. Cor. 14.1 and 5.4 and 9.14 and 11.23 and 12.28 Gal. 6.6 But the Prelates Priests Deacons of the Church of England haue not their offices Callings Ministration and Maintenaunce ordained by Christ in his Testament Ergo. They are not Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 The Assumption appeareth by their Constitution and practice in as much as their offices of Prelacie Priesthood and Deaconry their calling and entraunce according to their Pontificall Their choyse of their people whoe stand themselues vnder Antichrist and vnseperated from the worlde and are noe true visible Churches of Christe Their Ministration by their owne and other Popish Canons Artes Iniunctions and booke of Common prayer their maintenaunce by Tyths Lordships c. were neuer ordained by Christ for his Ministery but diriued from Antichrist and his Apostasye as hath bene proued by vs in diuers treatises Answere 1. The Proposition is not true except hee vnderstand by offices Callings and administration the Substantial or Essentiall parts therof Otherwise those very Pastors and Teachers ther spoken of may haue diuers accessary parts of their offices callings and administration not ordayned by Christ in the newe Testament Nether is it true Yf by maintenaunce hee meane any speciall kind of maintenaunce It is to be graunted in generall That Ministers are to haue sufficient maintenaunce and the texts a ledged for that proues noe more and therfore that which they proue is nothing to the purpose As little to the purpose are the other Texts for it will not follow from any force in them but that there may bee sundry accidents cleauing as parts to the offices calling and maintenaunce of true Pastors and Teachers which Christ neuer ordained 2. Concerning the Assumption 1. whether Prelates haue their office calling c. ordained by Christ is besids the present question Except M. Iohnson can proue that they are ordinary Ministers of our Church Assemblies which I am sure hee cannot 2 Soe many of our Ministers whoe in the booke of ordination are called Priests and Deacons as in all points concerning the substaunce of their Ministery are qualified according to the intent of the lawes haue their offices callings administration and maintenaunce for the substaunce therof ordained by Christ And yet I deny not but ther may be some accidentall defects or Superfluityes in and a bout them all yet such as doe or cannot be proued to destroy the nature and substance of any of them 3. All that is brought to proue the Assumption is falce and as much if not more controuersal then the Assumption it selfe For 1. hee can neuer proue that either the practis of all our Ministers is in all things according to that Constitution or their constitution according to their practis or either of them answerable to the strict termes of the law in all points 2. Hee can neuer proue that either in their constitution or practis or by the law they are in proper speech either Priests or Deacons only hee presumes them to be such because through some libertie of speech vsed in the lawes they are termed such Though it should bee graunted that our people stand vnder some kinde of observances and offices which in their owne nature and first originall are in some kinde Antichristian Yet they are of such a nature that divers worthy Martyrs of Iesus Christ that haue with stood Antichrist vnto blood haue stood vnder as much as wee And therfore such a manner of standing vnder Antichrist cannot be said to overthrowe though it may somwhat staine the Ministery of Christe But howsoeuer hee herein shamefully begs the question in the naked affirming without any prooffe That all in this kingdome are vnder Antichrist 4. Though for avoyding further controuersie that should be graunted him that some parts of our ministratiō by the Canons c. was neuer ordayned by Christ Yet at the least the maine principall and Essentiall parts therof performed according to the Canons and booke a foresaid are ordayned by Christ yea by M. Iohnson himself Nether hath hee proued or euer can proue That that part of our ministration by our Canons and booke a foresaid which Christ hath not ordayned If any such bee is of that nature and qualitie that it necessaryly destroyeth or maketh a nullity of the other parts of their Ministery which vse them 5. Though Tythes and Lordshippes and manners in perticulers bee not ordayned by Christ for the maintenaunce of Ministers yet they are as much ordayned as any other particuler or speciall kind of maintenaunce It is the will of Christ that the Ministers of the Gospell should liue of the Gospell i. should bee manietanied for their Ministery sake by them to whome they preach the Gospell But in what particuler manner that maintaynaunce should bee raysed hee hath noe wher defined and therfore left it to the discretion of Christian Magistrates or Churches 6. Wheras for the proofes of theis maine pointes hee referreth vs to the generall Tytles of certaine Treatises formerly published hee might as well send vs as they say to seeke a needle in a bottle of hay and why doth hee not in all other points of this booke as well as in the is send vs to the saide Treatises
Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers Answere Ther are 4. Termes in this Syllogisme The grosse Sophisterye wherof may appeare by the Explanation therof in others wordes True Pastors Teachers may not viz. by Gods lawe take vpon them Cyvill offices The Ministers of England may viz. by Mans lawe take vpon them Cyvill offices Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers This is the effect of his Argument who is so blind but hee may see the fallacie therof And it is as though we should reason in the like manner against their owne Ministery thus True Pastors Teachers may not bee Drunckards Anabaptists Familists The Ministers of the Seperation at Amsterdam may be Drunckards Anabaptists Familists Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers This Assumption is as true as the former for the same kinde of Authoritie that permits our Ministers to bee Cyvill Magistrats doth permit them to bee Drunckards c. The goverment vnder which they liue permitteth the one to more then our state doeth the other But I answer more particulerly 1. That by the same lawe that our Ministers may take vpon them Cyvill Magistracie Any true Pastors and Teachers may take vpon them the same Authority and by the same lawe that true Pastors and Teachers may not take Cyvill Authoritye vpon them our Ministers may not take the same vpon them 2. All our Ministers may not noe by the lawes of our State take vpon them Cyvill Authority But such only as are called specially therto by the fauours grace of the Cyvill Magistrate not as they are Prelats Priests or Deacons or by vertue of those functions but in respect of other qualifications Nether are the forced by any law to adjoyne any such Authoritie to their Ministery but permitted only But what if by the lawes of men Ministers might be Murtherers Adulterers Theeus c. should theis lawes chaunge the nature of their Ministery what of their Ministery that denye vnto themselues that lycence would it not rather the more justify their Ministery when in Conscience of Gods law they shall for beare that which flesh and blood and humaine laws would permit vnto them 3. Suppose not onely that it is vnlawfull for any true Pastors and Teachers to bee Cyvill Magistrats but that also by our lawes all our Ministers were forced therunto and that by vertue of their Ministery will it thence follow that for this cause they are not true Pastors and Teachers May not true Pastors and Teachers in their weacknesse ignorance and infirmities the laws of the State requiring the same admitt of some kind of office or Authoritie for bidden them but they must needs ther vpon cease to bee true Pastors Teachers doth the admitting of every vnlawfull thing chaunge the nature of the Ministery and make it either noe Ministery or a Ministery of an other kinde Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Christian Pastors and Teachers The. 5. Arg. standeth by the word and ordinance of Christ so as all Churches vnder Heaven are bound to receaue and submit thervnto But the Prelacie Preesthood and Deaconry of the Ghurch of England staundeth only by the Authoritie and Law of man soe as other Churches els wher nether are nor neede to bee subjecte thervnto which euen themselues of all sorts haue acknowledged for which see Whitgifts defence in the Preface The Answer to the Abstraucte pag. 58. The Admonition to the Parlement The defence of the Godly Ministers the demonstration Therfore it is not the Ministery of Christian Pastors and Teachers Answere I deny the Assumption The Ministery of our Church Assemblies of England whether of Prelates Priests or Deacons or by what other names soeuer they be called for the substance therof standeth by the word and ordinance of Christ and not onely by the Authority and law of man And all other true Churches are and ought to be subject to the same kinde of Ministery and to noe other that shall in any Essentiall point of Ministery differ from ours If any Perticuler Parsons amongst vs haue bene soe vnaduised to graunt the Assumption let them answer for themselues Hee hath noe more reason to binde vs to their opinions then wee to binde him vnto whatsoeuer his predecessours Browne Barrowe and Greenwood haue held before him Concerning some of the particulers Doctor Whitgifts words are theis The substance and nature of Gouerment must indeed by taken out of the word of God and consisteth in theis parts That the word be truely taught the Sacraments rightly administred virtue furthered vice repressed and the Church kept in quietnesse and order The offices of the Church wherby this Gouerment is wrought bee not namely and particulerly expressed in the Scripture but in some points left to the discretion and libertie of the Church to be disposed according to the State of times Places and persons The Author of the Answer to the Abstract in the place aledged saith That it cannot be proued that any set and exacte particuler forme of discipline is recomended vnto vs in the word of God Now are either of theis to affirme That the Ministery of our Church Assemblies staundeth only by the lawes and Authoritie of Man Hath M. Iohnson any shame left in his face that thus shamefully abuseth the names of learned and reuerent men soe directly contrary to their words and meaning Is ther not cause to suspect that the other Authors are in like manner abused and that for the better hideing of his fraude hee forbeareth to quote any particuler places Being therfore convinced of depravation in the places particularly quoted wee may presume that if the other places had bene more pertinent hee would haue giuen vs some particuler directions also for the finding of them And the rather for that hee cannot be ignorant that those whom specially hee fighteth against in theis Argumēts doe rely vpon the judgement of the Authours following more then of the former Fr. Iohn The offices of Pastors The 6. Arg. and Teachers which Christ hath appointed are such as they which haue them must bee members of a true visible Church and bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof But the Offices of the Prelats Priests and Deacons of the Church of Englande are such as they which haue them need not bee neither in their State can bee members of a true visible Church but of a fals neither are bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof but the Prelates are our whoele Prouinces and Diocesses other inferior Priests may haue in that State pluralitie of benefices and Ecclesiall Cures c. which none can deny Therfore they are not the Pastors Teachers that Christ hath appointed Answere Though some parts of the Proposition bee disputable Yet because other besids the Seperation doe hould the whol for truth I will leaue it in medio The Assumption is falce especially if it bee vnderstoode as it ought to bee of the
offices of such Prelats Priests and Deacons as are Ministers of our Church Assemblies For most of those which haue such offices are and are bound to be members of true visible Churches And cannot in their Estate they being in all points answerable to the lawes be members of a falce Church They are all such excepted as haue speciall dispensations bound to one particuler Congregation and may not by law haue more Cures then one but admitting of a seconde the first is voyd Yea the Prelats thēselues though in regard of their Prelaticall office they are Gouernors of whole Prouinces diocesses yet it is possible for them not withstanding to be members in their Estate of a true visible Church and bee bound as are the Prelats of Scotland to one particuler congregation for the speciall Ministery and Gouerment therof And though the other Ministers may haue in that estate pluralitie of benefices and Cures yet it doth not follow that therfore they are such as in their estate cannot be members of a true visible Church excepte they haue thē indeede yea though they should be pluralists indeede yet for ought hee hath proued to the contrary they may bee membres of true visible Churches and may each bee bound to one particuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof But what man except hee were halfe frantick wold reason thus Our Ministers may bee Pluralists therfore they neither are nor can be true Pastors and Teachers Is not this rather one of the honors then blemishes of our Ministers That they may be pluralists and yet are not If by our lawes their owne Assemblies were established If by the same lawes their Pastors and Teachers might bee non residents or pluralists or worse would they think hemselus euer the worse for this would they not rather thinke themselus the better that they are not soe bad as by mans lawe they might bee Fr. Iohn The Offices Condition and Gouerment of Pastors and Teachers The 7. Arg. are such as noe way impaire the Authority and Supremacy of the Syvill Magistrate But the offices Condition and Gouerment of Prelates Priests Deacons are such as doe many waies impaire the Authoritie Supremacie and dignity of Kings and all other Magistrats both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall Causes For the Prelates will haue their presence voice and Authority to be at Parlaments for enacting of lawes and Statuts for the Common wealth They are Rulers of whol Prouinces and diocesses in the Ecclesiasticall causes therof In Civill State and dignity some of them are aboue all and all of them aboue some of the Nobles Iustices and other Magistrats of the Lande Themselues their Courts and officers handle and determine sundry Civill Causes and affaires appertaining to the Magistracie They inflict Civill Mults and punishments In their forbidden times they giue licence to Mary The beneficed Priests sweare Canonicall obeidience to the Prelats All the Priests and Deacons are exempt from the Magistrats Iurisdiction in diuers things appertaining vnto them and answerable onely or cheifly to the Prelats and their officers Therfore they are not the onely Pastors and Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 Answere The Assumption is falce nether doe the instances proue the same 1. The Prelats claime their voices in Parlament not as diuine ordinaunces appartaining to their Prelateship but as an honor annexed to the same by the Civill Magistrate 2. Their Authority in Causes Ecclesiasticall ouer Prouinces c. is either such as the Civill Magistrate himselfe may execute and administer in his owne person if hee please or such as is not for them as they are Magistrats to execute The first sort they administer only by vertue of the Magistrats owne Commission and therin they cannot impair either his dignity or Supremacie much lesse in the other part of their Authoritie which belongeth not to the Magistrats themselues to execute especially when they vse it not nether without their consent lycence and approbation 3. That all are aboue some and some aboue all of the Nobles and Iustices c. is a free and voluntary honour graunted vnto them by the Civill Magistrate and held in tenure from him and not claimed as I thinke as belonging to their Episcopall function by diuine right 4. Their Courts determine noe other Civill causes then the Civill Magistrate and his lawes do permit or if they doe the falt is in the Parsons and not in the Prelatship further they inflict Civill punishments giue lycences exacte Oathes c. by Authority from the Magistrat whose subsistutes therin they are And therfore the Prelates neither in theis nor in any of the former instances can bee saide to impaire the dignity Authoritie or Supremacie of the Civill Magistrate when herein they doe all things in and by the protection of his Authoritie much lesse can other inferior Ministers who haue noe dealing in the aforesaid matters Lastly if all our Ministers be exempt from the Magistrats Iurisdiction in some things appertaining vnto them but wherin I knowe not this very exemptiō it selfe is an act of the Magistrats Iurisdiction depends onely vpon his pleasure how can it thē any waies impair the same hytherto hee hath dealt by Syllogismes such as they are now for a conclusion of this first Argument hee shoots at rouers as followeth Fr. Iohn To this end diuers other reasons might be aledged for example If they say that Arch Bishops haue the Pastors then they haue but two If Lord Bishops then but 26. and what office then haue the Arch Bishops amongst them If the other Priestes then what office haue the Arch Bishops and Bishops seing God hath or dayned noe higher ordinary Ecclesiasticall office as some of them-selus acknowledg If they say the deacons haue the Pastors office the same absurdity followeth as in the former besids that the works of the deacons office are opposed to the worke of the Ministery Act. 6.2 with Eph. 4.11 Rom. 12.8 If they should say they haue the Teachers office it would be known which of their officiers haue it amongst them and to whom they are adioyned for the worke of Ministery as Teachers are to Pastors and what office the rest haue whom the accompt not to haue the Teachers office whether the Teacher spoken of Eph. 4.11 must first bee deacons and then Priestes and permit obeydeince to the Prelates and that also is to their ordinaires and be sylenced and deposed at thtir pleasure Answere Here hee thinkes hee hath knitt such Gardian knotts as cannot be vntide without a sword or a bill but the Simplicitie of the man here in is to bee laughed at for 1. though some should say that either our Arch Bishops or Bishops haue the Pastors office yet ther in they doe not exclude the other Ministers from that which is the substance and effect of that office though they should from the name No nor frō the name neither but should therin onely make degres of pastours viz. of Arch
Bishops over Bishops and their Diocesses of Bishops over Ministers and their Churches and of Ministers ouer their owne Congregations Leaving vnto them not with stāding the Superioritie of the other Pastors that maine and Substantial office of the Pastor which is enough to define and denominate a Pastor And therfore they may make such Pastors as are over whole Prouinces but two such as are over whole diocesses but 26. and yet hold also without any absurditie that their are also as many Pastors besyds as ther are Ministers of a particuler Congregation And though it should be graunted that herein they were deceaued in making Provinciall and diocesme Pastors yet the sorteing of vnproper Pastors with true or the subiecting of true Pastors vnto other sorts of Pastors doth not necessarily make the true Pastors fals soe long as vnder them they performe the name and substantiall duties of true Pastors which all the Ministers of our Church Assemblies doe or by the lawes ought to doe 2. If any hould that the Ministers of perticular Congregations onely are Pastors thē they may without any absurdity hould that they Arch Bishops and Bishops are generall Cōmissioners vnder the King to see that the Pastors doe their duties and in that regard may also Metaphorically and in another sence bee called Pastors as Princes themselves are soe called in good and approued Authors and what absurdity can follow vpon this Or what if they which hould the Ministers of perticular Congregations to bee Pastors could not tell what to make of the office of Arch Bishops and Bishops what 's that to the purpose are not our Ministers and Teachers therfore Pastors because they which shall hould them to bee soe cannot tell what to make of the Calling of Arch Bishops and Bishops 3. Though this should bee yelded vnto him that all Pastors are equall and that the Pastors of perticular Congregations are the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officers yet should this make nothing to the confirming of his conceit That our Ministers are not therfore true Pastors and Teachers because then Arch Bishops and Bishops should be excluded for this doth not exclude them from being Commissioners and Visitors in causes ecclesiasticall vnder the King over the Pastors and Churches of such and such Prouinces and Diocesses which is to giue thē their principall honour due 4. Concerning the Teachers office not to contende needlesly with him about the nature and quality therof but to suppose a Teacher in that sence which hee meaneth This may reasonably bee held That some of our Ministers whether Priests or Deacons so called or whether Parsons Vicars Curats or Stipendaries are Pastors and some Teachers That so many of them as haue and vse the gift not onely of doctrine and instruction but of Exhortation are Pastors That those which wanting the power of Exhortation and yet haue vse the gift of instruction and doctrine are such Teachers as hee meaneth And therfore herein also if it should bee yealded vnto him That it were fit that every Congregation should haue both theis offices and that the Teacher should be the Pastors Assistant yet it doth not follow but that in want of sufficient men for both theis offices in every Congregation some may inioy one and some an other For if the Churches of their owne way and constitution may bee without both Pastors Teachers and that for a long time till men may be chosen vnto that office Why may not a Church much more in the like necessity retaine a Pastor without a Teacher or a Teacher without a Pastor Can hee proue by any colour out of Gods word That one cannot bee called vnto or execute the office of a Pastor vntill hee haue a Teacher to assist him or that hee cannot execute the office of a Doctor except hee do it as an actuall assistant of some Pastor If not then is this a most frivolous demaunde when hee askes to whome our Teachers are adioynd for the worke of their Ministery nether doe the places hee quoteth viz. Eph. 4.11 Rō 12.7 proue any such matter 5. As idle and impertinent is that demande which followeth whether the Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 must first bee Deacons then Priests promise obeidience to Prelats be silenced and deposed at their pleasures For what if noe such matters bee required of Teachers by Paul either in that or any other place doth it thervpon follow that their submission to such things makes them noe Teachers may not Magistrats others also require some things of Teachers not required by the Apostles but they must needs thervpon become no Teachers But what repugnauncie is their in theis matters to the office of a Teacher To be a Deacon in the intent of our lawes what is it but as himselfe out of our booke of ordination hath in effect published it To read the Seriptures Pag. 31. to pray in the Church to Catechise the Iōger sort to baptize to preach if the Bishop shal think him sitt what is it to bee a Priest or Presbyter in our law hath not himself also taught vs viz. Pag. 32. To haue authoritie to Preach the word and to Minister the holy Sacramentes in the Congregation wher hee shal be appointed what obeidience doe they promise to Prelates in the intent of the lawe but onely in things that they shal judge honest and lawfull and not repugnaunt to the word of God what is it to bee sylenced and deposed but to forbear to Minister publiquly as themselues doe also forbeare vpon the Magistrats pleasure for the Bishops pleasure soe far as they proceede according to the lawes is the Magistrats pleasure otherwise it is but a personall fault And wherein Imarvaile doe any of these acts so oppugne the office of a Teacher that they cannot stand together wher doth Paul forbid any of theis acts vnto the Teacher or if hee should doth euery Act forbidden to a Teacher make him noe Teahcer Fr. Iohn pag. 14. Wheras some alledge that the people were to hear the Scribs and Pharesees sitting in Moses Chayre it is to bee noted that they were Leuits and Priests and therfore had the true offices appointed by Moses This therfore is nothing for a fals Ministery such as theirs is proued to bee further to bee a Pharefye was not to haue a new kinde of Ministery but to bee of a speciall Sect amongst the Iewes that pretended more strict observances of the law and might bee of any Tribe Lastly though the were corrupt yet did the hould that very true Minister must bee from heauen and this haue the forward Preachers acknowledged as T. C. pag. 83. Answere Here absurdly and Childishly hee goeth about to answer such an objection as noe body ever made against any thing contained in the former Argument This Argument onely is vsed in generall to shewe that some corruptions in Ministers and Churches are not of that nature that men should therfore seperate from all
Apostasie Because it is a Ministery that was not set by Christ in his Church This doth hee most grosly runne round in a circle as if I should proue that his Ministery is vnlawfull because hee is a Schismatick and that hee is a Schismatick because his Ministery is vnlawful The 2. Reason wherby he proues his Proposition followeth Fr. Iohn 2. If the Prelates of the Church of England haue such offices and Gouerment as be speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasie then the Ministery ordained by them thervnto must needs bee the Ministery of that Apostasie But the Prelats of the Church of England haue such offices and gouerment as bee speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasy Therfore the Ministery ordained by them is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The consequent is manifest because the fruit must needs bee as the tree is Mat. 7.16 and who can bring a clean thing out of filthinesse Iob 14.4 The Assumption is proued 1. Whosoever besids Christ haue such offices and Gouerment wherby the claime to bee spirituall Lords the haue the offices and Gouerment which are speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasy and are indeed very Antichrists themselues But such are the Prelats of the Church of Englande Therfore the haue such offices and Gouerments as are speciall purts of Antichrists Apostasy The Proposition is proued by those places of Scripture which teach that there is but one spirituall Lord the Lord Iesus The Assumption is proued by the lawes and Statutes of the land wherin they are called Lords Spirituall and in their Canons they take vpon them to prescribe their owne ordinaunces to the Ghurch for the worship of God and binde the spiret and couscience to the acknowledgement and approbation therof and to giue the holy Ghost 2. The offices and Gouerment of such Bishops as are ouer Diocesan and Prouinciall Churches and exercise Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction ouer all the Ministers and people therin are speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasie But such are the Prelates of the Church of Englande Ergo They haue such offices and gouerment as bee specially parts of Antichrists Apostasie Answere 1. I deny the cōsequent of the Proposition of the 1. Sillogisme The officers gouernors of Antichrists Apostasy may haue ordained some things that are Christian Nether doth the saying of Christ or Iob proue the consequent for though it should be graunted vnto him that the gouernors of Antichrists Apostasy haue ordained this Ministery yet doth it not follow that it is therfore a propre meere fruit of Antichrist but may be an dentall effect as are many other things which hee ordaineth agreable to Christs owne ordinaunces so that hee must proue that our Ministery ordained by the Pope or Bishops doth as properly flowe from the nature of their office and gouerment as figs from a fig tree or grapes from a vine or filthy water from a foule fountaine The contrary wherof is in this case most euident For leaue the bare names and tytles and consider our Ministery in all the essentiall parts and offices therof and it is a possible either for a Presbythery or for any perticuler Church such in constitution as their owne to ordaine the like Ministery in all points and respects with all the defects and faults therof 2. Concerning the first profe of the Assumption The Proposition may bee denied It being one thing to bee and another to make claine to bee for euery one is not that which hee claimeth to bee The Instances alledged to proue the Assumption either are fals or proue it not The lawes may giue their titles to men which they doe not claime Neither doe either their Canons or practis shew that they prescribe their owne ordinances for worship or propound to binde mens consciences to the acknowledgement of any such matter The professe the contrary and vrge their owne ordinaunces onely vnder the name of things indifferent Though therfore in error of iudgement they may and happily doe commande such ordinances of their owne as are diuine worship and in such a manner as it bindeth conscience which M. Iohnsons owne Church in many cases may doe except they think themselues priviledged from error yet they protesting against any such power and authority they cannot be saide therin to arrogate the office of Spirituall Lords in that sence at least in which Christ is said to bee the only Spirituall Lord. And though in their ordination of Ministers they vse as a ceremoniall speech to say Receaue the holy Ghost and therin peraduenture offer some force vnto the Scripture vnto which the allude yet they disclaime al actuall power and authority of giuing the person or gifts of the holy Ghost vnto men It shall bee needlesse in this controversie to spend time in the defence of the calling of Bishops any further then the necessity of the argument requires Onely for the further clearing of the truth in the differences of them of the Seperation not only from the Bishops but from the other sort of Ministers also which doe not approue of their callings I offer theis pointes vnto them to consider of advisedly 1. Whether the Supreame Magistrate haue not power to ouer see and Gouerne all the severall Churches with in his dominions yea whether hee bee not bound so to doe 2. Whether for his further helpe and assistance herein hee may not make choise of graue learned and reuerent men to assist him in the same gouerment 3. Whether by vertue of his power theis persons thus called to assist the Supreame Magistrate may not lawfully try the gifts of all the severall Ministers with in his dominions and giue publique approbation of the worthy inhibit those which they finde vnworthy frō the execution of their Ministery whether they may not visit the severall Ministers and Churches conuent them before them examine them how they haue behaued themselues in their places and punish the blame worthy 4. Whether for the more easy and orderly Gouerment of the said Churches so far forth as appertaineth to him hee may not devide his kingdom as ours is into Provinces assigning over each of them vnder himself some speciall Magistrat for learning and experience to oversee and gouerne all the perticuler Churches there and whether hee may not subdevide those Provinces into Diocesses assigning also to them other more inferior officers vnder him and his provinciall officers to over see the severall Churches with in such and such a precincte 5. Whether it doe destroy the nature of a Ministeriall or a perticular true visible Church that many of them should appertaine vnto one Provinciall or Diocesame gouerment though in that respect they should bee held and reputed but for one Provinciall or Diocesame Church 6. Whether Antichrist hauing vsurped the Kings Supremacy and taken into his hands this authority and corrupted the same hath made it now vnlawfull for the Magistrate to execute the same in manner and forme a fore saide or whether the Iurisdiction a fore saide doe not
directly and properly belonge to the Civill Magistrate and not to Antichrist But by vsurpation And whether his vsurpation of this office can make it a part of his Apostasie in those places where it is restored againe to the Supreame Magistrate 7. Whether the Supreame Magistrate recerving this his right from Antichrist and together with it happily taking also to himselfe some thing also that belonges to the Kingdom of Antichrist executing the same either in his owne person or by others together with his owne lawfull right whether I say this doe destroy his owne lawfull right and whether the subiect is ever the lesse bounde to subject themselues vnto the same right either in his owne person or his substitute Hither to hee hath indevoured to proue the Proposition of the first Argument wherby hee would confirme the Assumption of his 2. reason and now hee sets vpon the profe of the Assumption Namely That the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande is the Ministery of Deacons and Priests ordained by the Prelats ther vnto This hee saith is proued by the Canons constitutions obseruation of our Church And this hee confirmeth first by a longe tedious and idle rehersall of the forme of ordination of our Ministers bestowing cost to print in a manner our whole booke of ordination 2. By certaine of the late Canons pressing subscription conformity and an acknowledgement of the lawfulnes of the calling of Bishops and of their ordination 3. By certaine sharpe speeches of some Martyrs and of some others of our owne Nation against the Arch-Bishops Bishohs other of the cleargy of their times In the relation of which pointes hee spends some 5 leaves wherin still hee runs in a circle begging one of his arguments to proue an other So that one of his Arguments are as good as all and all no better then one This may suffice for answere 1. That if all particulars mentioned in the booke of ordination should bee strictly and precisely practized as alwayes they are not yet ther is not one clause in the whole forme of ordination by him cited that doth necessarily argue them which are so ordained to bee true and proper Priests and Deacons But if ther were and if also the Ministers ordained were anointed with oile if their crownes were shawen and they had power giuen to offer the abhominable Idole of the Masse yet this is not sufficient to argue that their Ministery is the Ministery of Priests c. except in their Ministery they should execute the same If their owne Church should ordaine one to the Ministery of a Pastor and should in their ordination require him only to preach the worde sincerely and to administer the Sacraments according to Christs institution and yet in his practis and execution hee should do nothing but sing Masse and Mattens and they should accept of this Ministery and no other at his hands would any that is in his wits say that this mans Ministery is the Ministery of a Pastor because hee was in formality of words ceremonies ordained to that office how much lesse can any say that our Ministery is the Ministery of Priests when they doe not only execute any such office but the clean contrary and when in their ordination not so much as any parte of a Priests office properly so taken is assigned vnto them but only the name and not so much as their name in their orders written in Latin which are to interpret the meaning of the English worde 2. Though the Ministers should doe all things required by the canons and should bee every way answerable vnto them And though the Testimonies of our Martyrs and others were yealded to bee true yet must hee streiue hard that can from either or both argue that our Ministers are indeede Priests except in a Metaphoricall and borrowed speech The other Arguments wherby hee proueth the maine Assumption of the 2. Reason viz. That the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy followe Fr. Iohn The Ministery of the Prelacie professing it selfe to bee Christs The 2. Arg. and yet standing in such an estate as it doth not obey Iesus Christ in his ordinance of Ministery worship and gouerment of the Church as their Prophet Priest and King is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Such is the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Answere To the Proposition I answer That not onely the Ministery of the Prelates but of a Presbytery or any Church whatsoever that stands in such an estate is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostacie And not onely the Ministery of the Prelats but any other Ministery els vpon earth may stand in such an estate as that it may in diuers and sundry Perticulers of ignorance or infirmity disobey Christ in his owne ordinances of Ministery worship and gouerment of the Church and in that respect and so far forth bee the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy yet bee also the Ministery of Iesus Christ Hee proues the Proposition by 19. places of Scripture to as much purpose as if by as many Testimonies hee should proue that it is day lighte at high noone Except hee meane That that is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie doth not in euery perticuler obey Christ in his owne ordinances of Ministery But which his 19. proofes haue no more force to proue it then to proue that their is a man in the moone as any may see that hath nothing els to doe but to examine them 2. I deny the Assumption The Ministery of our Church Assemblies though it bee ordained by the Prelats and bee subject vnto them yet it is not their Ministery but the Ministery of Iesus Christ They preaching his worde administring his Sacraments And it doth if it bee answerable to the law obey Christ in all the maine essentiall parts of his owne ordinaunce of Ministery c. And in all other points for ought hee can proue to the contrary as far as the Lord hath revailed the truth vnto them which exercise the same But saith hee the Assumption is evident by that which hath bene said in the 1. Reason and their Constitution it selfe shewes it in that they are so farre from obeing Christ in his ordinances of Ministery c. as that they execute the Ministery and gouerment of an other Arch Bisschop L. Bishop then Christ of an Arch-Deacon Parson Vicar c. as also in their reading prayers out of a booke and observing other humaine inventions and in their Church Gouerment according to Canons Courts c. which were neuer appointed by Christ To omit that here againe hee begs his first reason to proue his seconde If the Assumntion haue noe better evidence the evidence is fals as I haue made it evident in the Answer to the first reason Nether hath hee there or els where in any of those other of their wrightings which hee sends
more the vphould the Ministery of iniquitie and intisse vnto their stolne waters and hid bread 4. That our Church assemblies are not true visible Churches of Christ vnseperated from the worlde not joyned together in Communion of the Gospell by voluntary Profession of the faith and submission to the Gouerment of Christ but standing in bondage vnto Antichrist The very rehearsall of which reasons is answer sufficient he being notable to proue any of theis assertions but either by the Assumption it selfe that they are brought to proue or one by another circularly Contrarily I affirme 1. That ther is no ordinary Ministeriall office that Christ hath giuen vnto his Church for the worke of his Ministery but our Ministers either haue or by our lawes ought to haue the same 2. That it is a Ministery as opposite for the substaunce therof to the Ministery of Popish Priests Deacons as light is opposit to darknesse 3. That the Pope left not such Priests and Deacons as ours are nor hath any such in his Kingdome But that our Priests and Deacons haue bene vnder God and the Prince the principall Persons that haue driuen the Pope and his Priests and Deacons out of the Realme That it is devilish for any to say that they are devilish except they can proue it by better reasons That they that haue the best gifts doe not intice any to stolne waters or hidden bread or to vphould any Mistery of iniquitie Except the Gospell of Iesus Christ and the true and onely meanes of salvation bee the Mistery of iniquitie 4. That our Church Assemblies being such as by the lawes of the land they ought to bee are so far forth seperated from the world joyned together in the communion of the Gospell by the voluntary profession of faith c. and freed from Antichrist as is sufficient to make them true visible Churches of Christ notwithstanding that many things may bee wanting to the full and desired perfection of them And I doubt not but wee shall bee far more able at any time by reason out of Gods worde to proue theis points then ever M. Iohnson will bee to proue the contrary And yet it were easie to proue any thing by such a jugling Method of Reasoning as M. Iohnson hath gotten For hee can proue you the 1. Reason by the 2 the 2. by the 1. The 3. by the 1. and 2 the 1. and 2. by the 3. The 4. by the 1.2 3. and every of them by the 4. and all 4. by that question which here they are brought to proue THE FIFT REASON EXAMINED Fr. Iohn NOne may heare or haue any Spirituall communion with those Ministers which Minister the holy things of God and worke vpon the Consciences of men by vertue of a fals Spirituall calling Such are the Ministers of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo None may heare or haue any Spirituall communion with them Answere This Argument which here hee brings against our Ministery is the very same with the 2. For by a fals Spirituall calling hee meanes a calling proceeding from the Apostasie of Antichrist The Preposition for brevitie sake hee proues by fiue and thirtie places of Scripture And yet who soeuer shall pleas to take the paines to examine them shall finde that nether severally nor joyntly they proue the same The Assumption wheron the whole weight of the controversie leaneth hee proueth onely by the first Argument wherby hee proued the Assumption of the 2. Reason viz. Because they doe it by vertue of their Ministery receaved of their Prelats from their Spirituall Authority which is vsurped and Antichristian And this is all this witnesse hath to say and all the answer it needeth Onely hee wandreth into certaine objections and queries grounded vpon some supposed defences of some of our Ministers Vnto which I will though I neede not giue a breif answer from point to point Obj. Some say they preach not by vertue of their Ministery taken from the Prelats but by vertue of some other calling and Authority Ans I knowe none hauing receaued ordination from the Prelats that neede deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Ministery which they haue taken from them Noe though they hould the calling of Prelates vnlawfull For what is the Ministery which they haue taken from them for the substance therof But after a triall of their gifts a libertie and leaue graunted vnto them to preach the worde of God and administer the Sacraments in such Congregations as they shall bee called vnto Obj. Why will such seeme to renounce that calling receaued of the Prelats and yet blame vs for doing the like Ans They may acknowledge a further calling then that of the Prelats and yet not therin renounce the calling receaved from the Prelates but rather ratifie the same For the Prelats being learned divines and having approued of their gifts and by words and letters Testimoniall giuen libertie to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but they leaue them to bee further called or chosen either by the people or those Patrons vnto whose fidelitie the people haue committed this charge And therfore this acknowledging of a further calling maketh nothing to the justification of the proude ignorant schism of this Persons Obj. If they preach by virtue of another calling how then stande they Ministers of that Church wher noe other is alowed and how impose they themselues vpon any of their Parishe Assemblies seing the lawes of the land allow onely the Prelacie Priesthood and Deaconry a foresaide Ans Though this should be graunted which hee in his ignorāt simplicitie doth suppose that some amongst vs hauing bene ordained by the Prelates did exercise our Ministery by virtue of another calling and though the law of the land alow noe other yet especially so long as they are permitted to execute their Ministery by those in Authority though it bee by virtue of another calling they are to bee reputed Ministers of that Church that hath vse of their Ministery Obj. How also herein can they avoide to bee both intruders and hipocrits intruders in taking vpon themselues a publique office in that Church against the publique lawes and constitutions therof hipocrits because they pretend in shew one thing to the Prince and State and yet performe another indeede Ans All theis inferences are vpon a fals supposition yet if there were any such Persons they could noe more therin bee said to bee intruders and hipocrits then they of the Seperation are For though the publique lawes should bee against any other calling yet so long as they take an office by a good calling they cannot bee said to intrude themselues Nether doe any such amongst vs if ther bee any such pretend in shew any more then they doe indeed performe for so far forth as any differ in iudgement from the publique lawes of the State they are ready to professe it being called thervnto and they practis
our people but also by the authoritie of the Magistrate who hath an armed power to hinder any such publique Action who is willing also to permitte and maintaine other true Ministers of the Gospel in those places where hee forbiddeth some If therfore after our publique calling to Minister to such a knowne and publique Church but by the Magistrat also The Magistrate shall haue matter against vs whether just or injust it skilleth not and shall in that regard forbid vs to Minister to our Church I see not by what warrant in Gods word wee should thinke our selues bounde not withstanding to exercise our Ministery still Except wee should thinke such a law of Ministery to ly vpon vs that wee should judge our selues bound to run vpon the sword point of the Magistrate or to oppose sword to sworde It being not the vse of the higher powers in such cases nakedly to forbid but to set a sword to the breast therby to force them which shall refuse And suppose the Magistrate should doe it injustly and against the will of the Church and should therin sinne yet doth not the Church in that regard ceas to bee a Church nor ought shee therin to resist the will of the Magistrate Nether doth shee stand bound in regard of her affection to her Minister how great and deserved soever to deprive her selfe of the protection of the Magistrat by leauing her publique standing to follow her Ministery in private and the darke refusing the benefit of all other publique Ministery which with the leaue and liking of the Magistrate shee may injoy Nether doe I knowe what warrant any ordinarie Minister hath by Gods worde in such a Case so to draw any such Church or people to his private Ministery that therby they should hazzard their outward state and quiet in the Common wealth wher they liue when in some competent Measure they may publiquely with the grace and fauours of the Magistrat inioy the ordinarie meanes of their Salvation by another and except hee haue a calling to Minister to some other Church to bee content to live as a private member till it should please God to reconcile the Magistrate vnto him and so call him againe to his owne Church laboring in meane while privately vpon perticuler occasions offred to strengthen and cofirme in the wayes of God those people that are deprived of his publique labours and I take it to bee the dutie of the people in such a case if they will approue themselues faithfull Christians and good Subjects so to submit to the Ministery of another as that by prayer and all other good dutifull and loyall meanes they may doe their best indevour to obtaine him of whom against their will they haue bene deprived and still to affect and loue him as their Pastor Now if the people doe thus then is that Minister called to bee silent not onely by the Magistrate but by them also though with much greife Obj. It is the dutie of all Ministers and Christians as will as Apostles to obey God and not man when man forbiddeth that which God commandeth or commandeth that which God forbiddeth Ans True but God noe wher that I can find commaundeth either a Minister to Minister publiquely in a publique Church maintained by the Magistrate against the will and in despite of the Magistrate noe more then against the will and in despite of the Church it selfe Obj. Vriah at the commaundement of the King made an Alter after the fashion of that of Damascus but therin sinned though hee offred theron such burnt-offrings as God had appointed much lesse may the Ministery vnder the Gospell bee framed after any nue manner devised by man least of all after Antichrist though in that Ministery many doctrines of the Gospell bee taught and such Sacraments administred as God hath ordained Ans This Example of Vriah the Priest is altogether impertinent vnto that which goeth before It being one thing vpon the commaundement of the Magistrate to forbeare the publique exercise of a true Ministery another thing vpon his commaundement to frame a nue Ministery after a nue manner devized by man or Antichrist After this hee runs out of his way againe to satisfie an objection that hee had propounded and indevoured as far as his learning would giue him leaue to answer before And which doth nothing at all depend vpon any thing that goeth before in this Argument wherin hee resembles some wanton Curs that takes delight to turne round about to catch their owne tailes But let vs see what it is hee saith Obj. Here againe concerning such as plead that they teach the truth and many excellent points of Doctrine It is to bee observed that yet none may therfore heare their Ministery vnder Coler of learning the truth because in yealding to receaue and heare it from Antichrists Ministery They defile the Temple of God and become the Subjects of Antichrist pag. 75. Ans Wher hee againe taketh it as matter that must whether wee will or noe bee graunted vnto him That our Ministery is Antichrists Ministery which needs noe other answer then before yet thus much further 1. That noe Ministery whatsoever so far forth as it teacheth the truth of Christ especially a truth opposite to the doctrine of Antichrist is the Ministery of Antichrist And those which shall submit and subject themselues vnto any Ministery whatsoever onely so far forth as they Minister and teach such truth cannot therin bee said to defile the Temple of God or to bee Subjects of Antichrist but bee obedient to Iesus Christ 2. Our Ministery in divers Congregations of the land at the least Teach not onely many excellent points of doctrin But so much doctrine as is sufficient to the Salvation of him that beleeueth the same even all the maine fundamentall points of Salvation clearly set downe in Gods word yea and for ought any can proue to the countrary All other lesse necessary points so far forth as God hath revealed and convinced their consciences of the truth of them 3. Those amongst vs who make conscience of hearing our Ministery doe not heare them vnder a Colour of learning the truth but onely to this very end and purpose that they might learne the truth and therin the true way of serving and worshipping God according to his owne will Obj. And not to speake of the many errors falshoods which they also teach it is no nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in diuers things teach and bring the truth with them for when Sathan cannot by falshood vtter his wares ordinaunces Ministery worship hee will bee glad to vtter the same by teaching the truth pag. 75.76 Ans 1. Our Errors whether for weight or member or qualitie are not such so great so many but they may be fall vnto true Christians whether Ministers or people yea as M. Iohnson well knoweth many of the Martyrs of Iesus Christ haue liued and died in more and greater Errors of the
by sending vs back againe as you may see to the first Reason So that all the reason of this Reason is borrowed from the 1. Reason and is answered all ready in the Answer therof But before hee passeth to the next reason hee runs out after the wonted fashion into an idle discours nothing at all appertaining to the Argument in hand bringing in some idle observations vpon the Story of Corah Dathan and Abiram also of Naaman falsly Misapplied vnto our Church Assemblies Ministery For hee taking it as graunted or as a thing that could not be denied him That our Ministery is Antichristian that our worship is Idolatry hee makes our Ministers people even the best of them wors then Corah Dathan Abiram and them which were of their conspiracy and our Assemblies and worship as bad as the Temple of Rimmon and the idolatry therin performed And wher hee brings the example of Naaman as brought by some of vs to justifie our joining with our Church Assemblies I persuade my selfe he doth against the knowledge and light of his owne conscience bely vs that ther cannot be one of vs brought forth that ever made this plea we hould it as vnlawful as themselues outwardly but in appearance to joyne with Idolators in their Idolatry wee see noe warrant why for every perticuler Act that in a large sence is Idolatrous adjoined to Gods true worship wee should forbeare our presence at the true worship it selfe Or that our presence for the true worships sake alone should in respect of some point of false worship thervnto a nexed bee as hee speaketh the submitting our bodies to a strang worship Especially when wee are not perticuler Actors in it but onely present behoulding it with greife and suffering it in others for the true worship sake vnto which it is adjoined If this should bee held vnlawfull then can noe man present himself with a good conscience at any publique worship of God whersoever Because except it should be stinted and prescribed which M. Iohnson holds to bee a fals worship hee can haue noe asseurance but that some errors in matter or forme will bee committed yea if hee bee a man of vnderstanding and learning hee may presume in a māner that in the publique worship some error or other in matter or forme greater or lesser will bee committed before which he must present himselfe But what were the Iewish Sinagoges in Christs time free from all parts of fals worship the Scripture witnesseth the contrary Did they when Christ came into them for beare their Assemblies The Scripture confirmes the contrary was Christ presence then as heere he saith our presence is a very bowing downe vnto them was hee also therin an vnconscionable dissembler Did hee therin imbrace the bosome of Strangers breake his couenant goe a whoreing with the inventions of man For such fiere as this hee spits at vs if not why should it bee such a sin in vs who haue not such eyes to pearce into the impiety of mans traditions as our Saviour had THE SEAVENTH Reason EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the present Ministery of the Church of Englande bee not from Heaven but of men then is it not lawfull in the worship of God to heare or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo It is not lawfull in the worship of God to haue any Spirituall communion therwith The Assumption is evident because God hath not appointed the Ministery of the Church Assemblies but man as appeares by their booke or ordination And if they will say the contrary let themshew their callings out of the word of God Answere This Reason is the very same with the 4.5 and 6. and hath noe ground or profe but from them And therfore is Answered also in the Answer of them And this may bee sufficient to shew that our Ministery is from Heaven when so malitious and excercised an Adversary whose whole Religion seemes to lie in opposing to our Ministery can say noe more against it THE SECOND SORT OF REASONS TAKEN AS is pretended forth of our owne Writers EXAMINED THE FIRST ARGVMENT TAKEN from the twelue Arguments EXAMINED Fr. Iohn AL will-worship is Sinne. To heare or communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship Therfore to heare or communicate with that Ministery is Sinne. Answere This Sillogisme is Sophisticall consisting plainely of foure termes Except hee make his conclusion this Ther fore to heare or communicate with that Ministery in manner and forme prescribed is a Sinne. For the third Argument being wil-worship Al the other terms they being no parts therof must bee in the conclusion If so bee the sillogisme bee true as every Sophoming boy in the vniversitie knoweth And therfore hee must either exclude them out of the Assumption or include them in the conclusion which hee cannot doe it being his intent by theis Arguments to proue it a sinne to communicate therwith not onely in manner or forme prescribed but any other way And therfore hee Sophistically or rather in ignorant and witlesse simplicity concluds a generall from a Speciall thus It is a will-worship to communicate with our Ministery in manner and forme prescribed Therfore it is a sinne to communicate therwith whether in manner or forme prescribed or any other way Wheras a Childe may knowe this That an Action donne in some manner and forme prescribed may bee a will-worship and a sinne which donne otherwise may bee true worship A man may therfore if neede bee graunt both his premises and deny his conclusion Nether will it help him that the Author of the 12. Arguments concluded against the Ceremonies in the same forme of words that hee doth here against the Ministery It being plain by the scope of his wholl disputation That though hee do not expresse those words in manner and forme prescribed in the conclusion That yet hee vnderstandeth them It being not his purpose to dispute absolutely against all vse of them but against the vse of them in that manner and forme that they are prescribed But whatsoever his Conclusion is The Assumption is fals yea though it should bee graunted that in our Ministery ther is some will-worship performed yet let vs see how hee proues the Assumption Fr. Iohn All parts of divine worship and Service imposed onely by the will and pleasure of man vpon the Communicants in divine service and that of necessitie to bee donne is will-worship But to heare and Communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Eugland in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed are such parts of divine worship as is a foresaid Ergo To heare and Communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship Answere The Proposition is taken forth of the 12. Argumentes and therfore
from the 12. Arguments And therfore they are noe wise guilty of his schisme nor doe any wayes herein this place patronize the same THE THIRD REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE TWELVE Arguments the London Ministers exceptions and the Abridgement c. EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF such bee the State of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England as they are bound in their Ministration vnto such things as the vsing of them in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship a giving of specially honour to Antichrist and his members a performing of honours more then Civill even Religions onely to a humaine power a warranting of the like vse of Iewish Turkish Paganish or Popish observations a doing of Scysmaticall Actions an hauing of Spirituall Communion with Papists in the Misteries of their Idolatry and Superstition Amingling of prophane things with divine an vsing of vnlawfull things in divine worship An administring of Sacraments that are not of divine institution A solemne acknowledging of Speciall homage to the Spirituall vsurped authoritie of Lord Bishops an vsing of humaine Traditions in Gods worship as necessary to salvation an apparent meanes of the damnation of many Soules An observing of a lieturgy which in the wholl matter and forms therof is too like vnto the masse booke c. Then is it not lawfull to communicate with the Ministers in their Ministery But such is the estate of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Therfore it is not lawfull to communicate with them therin Answere M. Iohnson thinks surely that in this Argument hee hath out of our owne writings for ever disgraced our Ministery But whether here or in the Arguments following he deale faithfully with our writers I know not his bad dealing in this kinde wee haue discoured in part before and doth most evidently appeare in one perticuler following wherein hee most shamfully and lewdly as a man void of all common honesty and grace maketh the Ministers of Lincolne to affirme See pag. 98. That the Prelats are reveiled to bee great Antichrists and their Ministery and constitution to bee great troublers of the Church at this day and that it cannot but bee very sinfull and hurtfull to retaine or communicate with them The Devill himselfe would haue bene a shamed in this open manner to haue tould such a ly and therfore hee is to bee trusted no further then hee is seene And herein his lewdnesse is the more to bee suspected That wher hee rehearseth many harsh bitter and vnsauory speaches against our Ministery and worship as written by some of our selues that retaine communion with the Ministery and worship of our Church Assemblies Hee doth not quote the perticuler places but onely refers vs to the Authors in generall as though we had nothing els to doe but to reede ouer wholl bookes to finde out his Allegations or that wee must take them vpon his word to bee faithfully reported But let vs suppose that our men haue so written yet ther is noe consequent in the Proposition For what if our Ministery were bound to say Masse to sing Mattins To worship the Virgin Mary To acknowledge the Popes Supremacie c. yet for all that it might bee lawfull to Communicate with our Ministers in their Ministery Except that in the execution of their Ministery they submitted vnto that which they were bound vnto It being one thing to bee bound and another thing to fulfill the bonde he might contrarily with as much witt and vnderstanding haue reasoned thus If this bee the estate of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Rome that they are bound in their administration to the renouncing of Antichrist and all his Idolatry offices and will-worship to conforme onely in their Ministery to the Gospell of Iesus Christ and to such or dinances as are agreable to the same then it is lawfull to communicate with them in their Ministery and worship M. Iohnson would quickly discerne the inconsequence of this Proposition And why because in the execution of their Ministery they fulfill not this bound And yet hee cannot deny but that they are by a stranger bond even a divine bond bounde vnto this then our Ministers to the contrary The consequent hee saith is proued by the Ministers of Lincolneshire Abridgement pag. 17. But to passe by his depraving of them before touched noe such matter can bee concluded from the words which hee here citeth yea though hee had dealt faith-fully in the citation of them For though it should bee graunted that some act of spirituall fornication should bee donne in our Ministery That wee are to seperate from Idolators and Antichristians and to bee as vnlike them as may bee in their religious observations Though God doe beare a detestation of Idolatry and all the Inticements therof as vnto speciall whoredome Though wee ought to bee a shamed of the monuments of Idolatry and cast them away with detestation Though wee should bee in some danger by them to bee corrupted in Religion by conforming vnto Idolators in their Ministery and worship Though keeping communion with such Ministers should be a speciall meanes to harden them in their sins Though the Prelats were revealed to bee great Antichrists Though the Godly learned haue constantly taught that Christians are bound to forsake and cast of the Ministration Ceremonies and religious customes of Pagan Iewes Antichristian Idolators and Hereticks and carefully to shum all conformity with them therin Yet it doth not therupon follow That if the Ministers of our Church Assemblies bee bound as a foresaid that then it is not lawfull to communicate with them in their Ministery M. Iohnson therfore must bee put to this paines To proue this consequent For further profe of the former consequent he bringeth six Reasons more out of his owne ould and fusty horn of store which proue the consequent just a baculo ad augulum To which it shall bee needlesse to giue aunswer they being profes clean besids the purpose of theis reasons which is to justify their schisme by grounds taken from our owne writings The Consequent then of the Proposition being evidently fals The Assumption though it should haue never so much ground from our owne writings wil stande him in noe stead THE FOVRTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE ADMOnitions to the Parlament EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Offices of Arch Bishops Arch Deacons Lord Bishops Suffraces Parsons Vicars c. bee Antichristian and contrary to the Scriptures then the people of God may not communicate with them in their Ministery Ergo The first is true The later also Answere The Consequent is fals and hee goeth not about to proue it by any thing taken out of our owne writings but by a stale profe that hath bene answered before and therfore it requires noe answer onely thus much of free bountie That the offices of Arch Bishops c. quatenes tales are not of the essence of the Ministery of our Church Assemblies but meere Accidents The Assumption
therfore will stand him in noe steed whether it bee true or fals and therfore I leaue it to their maintenance from whom hee saith hee borroweth it THE FIFT REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE offer of Conference EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Propositions propounded to bee maintained in the offer of Conference bee true To avoid tediousnes I forbeare to set them downe as M Iohnson hath done but thou shalt discern what they are afterward in the Answer then is it not lawfull to heare or haue any speciall Communion with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande But those Propositions are true Ergo It is not lawfull to haue any Speciall Communion with the same Answere The Consequent is fals doth not follow from the said Propositions 1. Though it should be graunted That all matters meerely Ecclesiasticall lawfully imposed vpon any Church are such as may bee concluded necessarily from the written word of God Yet in a true constituted Church some matters meerely Ecclesiasticall may bee imposed through humaine frailty that cannot so bee concluded 2. Though all humaine ordinances vsed onely or specially in Gods worship whervnto they are not necessary of themselues were simply vnlawfull Yet is not every such humaine ordinance of that nature that it maketh the Church and Ministery wher it is vsed to bee a fals Church and Ministery much lesse those Churches and that Ministery wherin it is not vsed but injoined onely 3. Though it were generally graunted of all That every true visible Church of Christ is such a Spirituall body politick as is specially instituted by Christ or his Apostles in the new Testament Yet it will not thence follow That those Churches and Ministeries are not to bee communicated withall that haue any thing in or appertaining to the constitution therof not instituted by Christ or that such Churches are not true visible Churches 4. Though every true visible Church of Christ or ordinary Assemblie of the faithfull hath by Christs ordinance power in it selfe immedialy vnder Christ to elect and ordaine deprive and depose their Ministers and to execute all other Ecclesiasticall Censures Yet will it not follow from thence That all they are fals Churches and not to bee communicated with all That doe not or by the lawes of man are not suffred to vse that power Nether is it sure the meaning of them who offer the Conference To maintaine That they are no true visible Churches of Christ that cannot vse that power but are therein subject to others for one may by Christs ordinance haue a power to doe that which yet in regard of man he hath noe power to doe 5. Though the Pastor of a perticuler congregation should be yealded to bee the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officer in any true constituted visible Church of Christ Yet cā it not hence bee concluded That those Pastors are fals Pastors who are outwardly by mans lawes subjected to a Superior Ecclesiastical officer The Father ordinary is the highest officer in the family yet if the Magistrate subject the father in some matters appertaining to the family to another Though therin it may bee hee may doe the father some wrong yet doth not the father therby become a fals father or the family a fals family Admitte then that this prerogatiue due to Pastors to haue noe Spirituall officers superior vnto them yet is it not so essential vnto him that without the Actuall vse and possession of it hee cannot bee a true Pastor And yet take a true visible Church in that sence which the officers of the conference doe viz. for a perticuler ordinary Assembly or Congregation And then in our owne Churches The Pastor is the higest ther being noe Ecclesiasticall Officer in any such Churches a boue him 6. Graunt this That it is the office of every true Pastor to teach and Governe Spiritually one Congregation immediately vnder Christ Can it from hence bee concluded That they are noe true Pastors which governe more congregations then one or which are subject in some outward things to some others besids Christ 7. Admit That the offices of Provinciall and diocesan Bishops were contrary to the word of God must it needs ther vpon follow That those Ministers and Churches which are vnder them by the lawes of man are fals such especially who obey them onely in things which they judge honest and lawfull and who vnder this subjection doe no more then they would doe if they were not subject at all vnto the Bishops A man must therfore bring a better head wit with him then M. Iohnsons That by the Propositions of the offer of Conference how harsh soeuer they may seeme to bee can conclude it vnlawfull to joine and communicate with our Church Assemblies For the profe of this consequent he bringeth nothing out of our owne writings but onely to giue his reader therby a vomit some of his owne Coleworts not twise but twise twenty times sodden To which wee giue him leaue to looke an Answer from some as idle headded as himselfe THE SIXT ARGVMENT TAKEN OVT OF DIvers Treatises Answered This Proposition being a whol leaf in his booke I forbeare any further anser downe there being in effect little difference in the matter from that which hee hath formerly brought Fr. Ihon. IF the is Assertious bee true That that Church calling for which the Scripture giue noe expresse warrant is meerely vsurped and vtterly vnlawfull That as it is not lawfull to bring in any strange doctrin so is it not lawful to teach the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function then is instituted by God c. But the aforesaid Assertions are true Therfore it is vnlawful to haue communiō with that Ministery Answere This Argument being a collection out of our writers doth not differ from the former as himselfe graunteth and therfore needs noe further Answer The Consequent is fals and hee proues it not by any of our owne writers as hee ought to doe but stil brings vs profes out of his owne musty Aumbry The Assumption therfore borrowed out of our owne writers will doe him noe pleasure THE SEAVENTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE twelue Arguments viz. the tenth EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IT is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church to haue spirituall communion with those Ministers which in their Administratiō of divine things do either by word or deed solemly professe and yeald a spirituall homage to an vsurped spirituall Authoritie in the Church But so do the Ministers of the Church Assemblies of England Ergo It is a sinne to haue communion with the same Answere The Proposition is fals And hath noe ground from that Proposition in the 12. Arguments vnto which hee would match and forth of which hee would draw it The Proposition there is this It is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church for any one of his Ministers especially in the administration of divine things either by words or signes
Ministrie and a purpose to giue themselues over vnto that worke They haue in some good measure for none hath them in perfection all those graces and gifts that Paul to Timothie requires to bee in Bishops and Elders They are so judged and esteemed to bee of other Ministers and well grounded Christians and of those people which submit vnto their Ministrie who accepting of them and their Ministrie as sent of God desiring and yealding themselues to liue vnder them as is fitting for Christians And they resolving to guide and governe them as becometh spirituall leaders and guides Such calling and entraunce as this haue many of our Church-officers more then this in substance and effect is not appointed by Christ Those defects and errors which over and besides many time they yeald vnto in their calling entraunce and administration are not of that nature and qualitie that they make anullitie thereof or make it a fals and Antichristian calling entrance or administration The maintenance they liue by as it is no where in speciall appointed of Christ so is it no where in generall or speciall forbidden In the yealding wher-of vnto the Ministers they fulfill the Testament of Christ in giving of their temporall things for spirituall in giving hire to the Labourers c. and do not therin breake any parts els therof hee having no where forbiden any such manner of maintenance but left it indifferent to giue money or fruits In fruits to giue the twentith the twelfth the tenth the eighth of the increase according ether to their estate or the necessitie of the Ministers wherein the Magistrate hath authority to rule and define who hath in his hand the power of mens temporall estates or the Church if the Magistrate leaue vnto them the free vse of their owne Temporalties Nether is the tenth required to be giuen by the Magistrate or yealded to bee given by the Church to the maintenaince of the Ministers any more ceremoniall or Iudaicall in regard of the number then in regard of the matter Nether did their any Ministery lie so much in the quantity of the thing given as in the very gift and offering it selfe So that by the same reason that you make it vnlawfull for Ministers to be maintained by tithes you make it vnlawfull for them to haue any kinde of maintenaunce from the Church there having bin a Ceremonie in the very matter it self as much as in the quantitie or number For not onely their giving the tithe of their increase but also the very giving of their increase it selfe out of that consideration was ceremoniall The fourth Demande Whether every true visible Church of Christ bee not a companie of people called and seperated out from the worlde and the fals worship and waies therof by the word of God and joined together in the fellowship of the Gospell by voluntarie profession of the faith and obedience of Christ I answer 1. That every true visible Church of Christ is such a people 2. That yet not withstanding they bee such they may in their infirmitie and ignorance walke in some of the waies and practice some parts of the fals worship of the world not withstanding their said seperation conjunction and profession 3. They may in time become the true visible Churches of Christ which at the first were not in the said manner and forme called seperated and joined together but forced and constrained against their will by the sword of the Magistrate 4. Many of those Churches in our kingdome from which you seperate as they now stand are such a companie of people so called seperated and joined together though in all three there may bee some kinde of defects and wants The fift Demande Whether the Sacraments being the seales of righteousnes which is by faith may be administred vnto any other but to the faithfull and their feed or in any other Ministrie or māner then is appointed by Iesus Christ the Apostle and high Priest of our profession And whether they be no otherwise administred in our Cathedrall Parishionall Churches in England 1. I graunt that the Sacraments ought to bee administred onely to the faithfull in outward profession and their seed and in no other Ministrie or manner then is appointed by Christ 2. In many of our Churches at the least they are administred in no other manner from and by no other Ministry then Christ hath appointed nor to no other persons 3. Every error and defect in some part of the matter and forme and ministrie a rising of ignorance or infirmity maketh not the Churches fals Churches except you hould That no true perticuler Church can erre which is a more grosse opinion then that of the Papists The sixt Demande Whether the booke of Common Praier with the feasts fasts holy daies stinted Praiers liturgie prescribed therin vsed in theis Assemblies be the true worship of God commaunded in his word or the deuise invention of man for Gods worship service 1. Though it should bee graunted that the booke of Common praier in all the parts and percels therof is not the true worship of God but containeth in it some devises and inventions of man yet the true worship of God not withstanding is prescribed in it 2. So much of it as is vsed in many of our Churches is the true worship of God and in effect commanded in his word 3. Those devises and inventions of men with the feasts fasts holy daies therin prescribed though they should be graunted to be sinnes and corruptions in our Churches such as ought not to be conformed vnto such as we ought rather to seperate frō our Churches then ether by subscription conformity or any other meanes to approue yet are they not of that nature that the simple vse of any or all of them doth destroy the very being of those Churches which vse them making them fals Churches and such as wee may haue no spirituall communion withall no not in the best things The seaventh Demande Whether all people and Churches without exception be not bound in Religion onely to receive and submit vnto that Ministry worship and order which Christ as Lord and King hath given and appointed to his Church Or whether any may receiue joine vnto another devised by man for the service of God And consequently whether they that joine to the present ecclesiasticall Ministery worship and order of the Cathedrall and Parishionall Assemblies can bee assured by the word of God that they joine to the former ordained by Christ and not to the latter devised by man even the man of sinne for the worship and service of God 1. I graunt that wee are bound in Religion to do that which is specified in the first part of your question 2. To joine with our eccleasiiasticall Ministrie worship and orders at least in those Assemblies whether Cathedrall or other when and where all things are not performed according to the rigour of our lawes is not to joine with a Ministrie and worship devised by that man of sinne but though not in all the specialties and formalities therof with such a Ministrie and worship as is required and instituted of God 3. They which joine to the present ecclesiasticall Ministrie worship and order of the Cathedral or Parishionall Assemblies in those things which are performed therein according to the true intent and meaning of our lawes though some things bee done not warrantable by the word yet they may bee assured by the word of God that they joine to the substance of that Ministrie worship and order which Christ as Lord King hath given and appointed to his Church At least they may bee as well assured therof by Gods word as any that joine with the present ecclesiasticall Ministery worship and order of the Assemblies of those of the Seperation can bee assured by the same word that they joine to that forme which is ordained by Christ
needs noe Answer The Assumption is fals But hee proueth it thus 1. Man imposeth this Ministery vpon man and God in his word hath not appointed these offices and Callings Nether required any to communicate with them in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed And 2. the people stand bound to heare and communicate with them vpon paine of Suspension deprivation c. and God must haue noe solemne worship in England except it be with communion to the same Ergo To heare and communicate with the present Ministery c. is a part of divine worship imposed as a fore saide The first part of the Anticedent is fals and is not proued by any ground taken from the 12. Arguments for not man onely but God also hath imposed this Ministery and hath appointed for the substance therof their offices Callings of the Ministers of our Church Assemblies And hath required vs to communicate with them in Church Service in that forme and manner which the law in the true meaning therof prescribes which many at the least doe practis Nether doth the consequent follow vpon the second part of the Antecedent for though humaine lawes vnder never so great punishments should bind vs to never so great corruptions in Gods Service yet so lang as wee doe not actually communicate in those corruptions but onely in the true parts of Gods worship our communicating is never the wors for the said lawes of men but rather the better Nether doe wee herein stand more bound then M. Iohnson and his people doe when they are in theis dominions So that it makes as much against communicating with their Ministery as ours Though therfore as the Author of the 12. Arguments hath indevoured to proue the Ceremonies in Controversie should be held to be a will-worship and therfore a sin to vse them in Gods worship yet it followeth not by the same Argument that it is a sinne to communicate with the Ministery of our Church Assemblies noe though it should vse the said Ceremonies much lesse wher and when it vseth them not as in some places or at some times it doth not nether is it by law required so to doe THE SECOND REASON taken from the twelue Arguments EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IT is a sinne against God for Christians to pertake with the Ministery of such as accounting thomselues to bee Servants of Iesus Christ yet doe in the execution of their Ministery giue speciall honor to Antichrist and his officers But the Ministery of the Church of England is such Therfore it is a sinne for Christians to pertake therwith Answere First I deny the Proposition The true and best Ministers of Iesus Christ that ever were or shall bee since the Apostles may in their ignorance or weacknes do some act in their Ministry that may bring some speciall honor to Antichrist and yet Christians may lawfully and without sinne pertake with such in their Ministery It being not necessary that who soever pertaketh with a Ministery should pertake also with the accidentall corruptions therof Hee tels vs like a bould and blind biard That the Proposition is manifest and clear to any that haue an ey of Reason and any light of divinitie shining in it And yet it hath not so much as any colour of truth but in the eyes of such owles and bats as himselfe is Arg. 2 The Proposition in the twelue Arguments vnto which hee would equall and paralel his is this It is a sinne against God for him that is by way of excellency a Servant of Iesus Christ without a precise and directe warrant from him at any time especially in the Solemne worship of God to give speciall honour to Antichrist and his members What must it needs follow vpon this That it is a sinne to pertake any manner of way with such a ones Ministery as shall in any measure commit such a sinne must the joining with them in any other parts of their Ministery needs bee a communicating with them in this sinne Hee bids vs see for this 2. Cor. 6.14.17 Rev. 18.4 but what is this to the twelue Arguments from which hee saith this reason is taken And to what end should wee see those places except hee had first made vs to see That our Ministers in their Ministery are Infidels and Belials That their Ministery for the substance therof is vnrighteousnes and darknesse That the God wee serued in our Ministery is an Idoll That our Assemblies are Babylon And all this because some thing happily is donne by our Ministers which and yet contrary to their intent is some honour to Antichrist For except all this bee graunted vnto him theis Texts are of noe force to confirme the Preposition The Assumption is as fals as the Proposition Nether doth it follow from the Assumption of that Argument of the 12. from which hee would ground it For though it should bee graunted That to vse the Ceremonies in Controversie in manner and forme prescribed were to give speciall honors to Antichrist and his officers Yet it doth not follow That the Ministery of our Church Assemblies are such that in the execution of their Ministery giue speciall honour to Antichrist and his officers For some of our Ministers from whom hee seperateth do not in the execution of their Ministery vse the said Ceremonies at any time Nether do any of our Ministers at all times in the execution therof vse them nether are required so to doe The Assumption not-withstanding hee proceedeth to proue thus Fr. Iohn Such a Conformitie to Antichrist and his officers as is not onely besids the word of God but in a speciall manner derogatory to all reformed Churches that haue departed from the Synagogue of Rome is a speciall honour to Antichrist and his Officers But the Execution of the Ministery of the Church of Englande is such Ergo The Execution of that Ministery in manner a foresaid is to giue speciall honour to Antichrist and his officers Answere The Proposition is word for word in a manner taken out of the 12. Arguments And therfore for this controversie not to bee stood vpon whether it be true or fals The Assumption is fals and hath noe ground at all from the 12. Argumets For though it should be graunted That to vse the Ceremonies in Controversie in divine worship is such a Conformitie to Antichrist and his members as is specified in the Proposition yet noe man except hee haue some Crack in his braine can from thence inferre That the execution of our Ministery is such a conformitie especially then when in the execution therof they doe not vse the said Ceremonies which none doe at all times and some doe never Hee proceeds to proue the Assumption not by any ground taken from the 12. Arguments but by some of the fragements of his owne former reasonles reasons and therfore the maine issue of the Argumēt lying not vpon any thing in the said Arguments This second reason of his cannot bee said to bee taken