Scold who if she be not opposed will sooner keep silence then by all the punishments you can inflict on her besides we have no presidents for any such cumpulsions in the Scriptures CHAP. VII Treateth of Cumpulsive power c. SECT 1. Objection THe Spirit of God in the Revelations reproveth the Churches for suffering such sorts of people to be amongst them Ans But the Spirit of God in that Chapter The Apostles used no cumpulsive course to any doth not give those Churches a cumpulsive â—â—wer to force such Sectaries to be of their opinions whether they would or no he only taxeth them for not objecting such people from their society so that the cumpulsive power which you would have the Civill Magistrate use for you as your executioners is a way to contradict our Saviour who calleth his Church a little slock whereas you would force it to consist of whole Nations making no distinction betwixt it and the world SECT 2. Obj. WOuld you have the whole power of the Church consist in the reall Body of the Church and not in some chosen out of the rest as a representative thereof Ans I have formerly shewed you that the Apostles writ them The Apostle writ his Epistles to thereall bodies of Churches Epistles which I have quoted not to any one particular man in the Church or to more sequestred from the whole but he writeth to all them to whom he sent his Epistles which was to the whole reall Body of the Church and therefore it must needs follow that they had all equall power For to whom the Apostle writ his Epistle unto of them he requireth a performance of his will But he writ to all the reall Body of the Church to whom he sent as I have heretofore cleerly proved and not to any one a part or to more sequestred from the whole Ergo he requireth such things as he writ for to be done by the reall Body of the Church as in 1 Cor. 5. 4. 12. 13. Obj. Doubtlesse such businesse may be despatched with more facility by certaine Members of the Body chosen out of the whole as a representative Church then otherwise it can be done by the reall Body of the Church Ans We are not to deprive the poorest or meanest Member The meanest member of Christ ought not to be deprived of his Christian liberty of Christ of the right and priviledge of his Christian Liberty it being as due and proper unto him as a Crowne to a King And yet for order sake we allow that Church businesse may be dispatched by some eminent persons who are Members of it so that they be chosen by the consent of the reall Body as in the elections of Parliaments c. sor in such a manner was the controversie dispatched which hapned at Antioch viz. by chusing certaine Members out of the reall Body by the reall Body as appeareth Act. 15. 2. as also at Jerusalem where the Brethren viz. the reall Church did the like by sending a Committee to Antioch as in the 25 26 and 27. verses of that Chapter doth expresly appeare viz. Judas and Silas c. SECT 3. Obj. YOu boast much of that passage but you cannot prove that Paul and Barnabas and the certaine Brethren there mentioned which went to Jerusalem were sent by the reall Church at Antioch seeing the text only saith that they determined to send Paul Barnabas and the other Brethren but what they it were is not mentioned and therefore it lyeth on your part to prove Ans As for our boasting of that passage if there be any it The Presbiterians wilfully exclude them selves of the liberty which Christ hath afforded is not without cause seeing that Christ hath bestowed upon his Church such a large priviledge from which you of the Presbitery wilfully exclude your selves and as to that you thinke it such a difficulty to prove who they were that sent the Apostles and the Brethren from Antioch to Jerusalem I will partly answer you by a question and after give you other satisfaction And as to the question I demand of you by whom were Judas and Silas sent from Ierusalem to Antioch Obj. It cannot be denyed but that they were sent by the Apostles and Elders and Brethren at Jerusalem for the text doth plainly and possitively expresse it ver 23. but what these Brethren were is uncertaine they might be the rest of the representative Church at Jerusalem for any thing that either I or you know to the contrary Ans Not so for if you be ignorant of it so am not I call Paul and Barnabas sent to the reall Church of Antioch to minde the 22. ver of that Chap. and there you shall finde that them who are called Brethren in the 23. ver are called the whole Church ver 22. Now if you be not satisfied that Paul and Barnabas and the other Brethren were sent by the reall Church at Antioch as well as Iudas and Silas was by the Church at Ierusalem I will thus further prove it unto you In the first Verse of the fifteenth Chapter we read that certaine Pharisees came from Jerusalem to Antioch to disswade the Brethren of that place from the Doctrine which they had been taught by Paul and Barnabas who being then at Antioch set upon these Jewes by Disputation the matter of which Dispute being about Circumcision remaining dubitable to the 〈◊〉 of the said Church it followeth in the same verse that they determined to send Paul and 〈◊〉 and certaine other 〈◊〉 the Church SECT 4. Obj. BVt yet you have not 〈◊〉 that they there spoken of 〈◊〉 reall Church at 〈◊〉 Ans What they can it be to whom the Apostle and Elders and the whole Church at Jerusalem sent their â—nswers in writing unto ver 23. But the writings which they sent was directed to the Brethren of the Gentiles which were in Antioch c. Ergo the Apostles and Brethren were sent by them Againe what other they can it be that sent Paul and Barnabas then they whom the Pharisees of Judea would have perswaded from the Doctrine which they had formerly been taught by Paul and Barnabas for if it should be otherwise understood that they were only sent by the representative Church at Antioch as you would have it then the first verse of the Chapter should have run thus viz. That certaine men comming from Jerusalem to Antioch taught the representative Church at Antioch and so it must consequently follow that the representative Church at Antioch was only called by the name of Brethren and if so what would you have the other part of the Church called which were not of the representative Church which consequently were not to be called by that name Obj. You have put me to a losse but neverthelesse the Indipendants and Annabaptists â—rre in many things which they presume to have power in as the chosen Church officers c. Ans Instance in any particular Officer
by the example of the Church at Antioch who made choyâ—e of Barâ—â—bâ—s and Paul and the other Brethren which no doubt was the most able men amongst them in that Church As also of the Church at Jerusalem in permitting Peter and James to speake first being the most grave in the Assembly as also in that Churches making choyse of Judas and Silas who was men of eminence amongst them as may appeare by the 26. vers to send in their behalfes to Antioch SECT 5. 2. THat Messengers being so sent ought to behave themselves wisely not making any tumult or disturbance in the Church to which they are sent but only to speake as occasion shall serve and that by the example of Paul and Barnabas who did not interupt Peter but waited their opportunity Obj. Then every one that hath judgement may and ought to speake Ans They may speake if they wil as the rest of the Apostles Who ought to 〈◊〉 in the â—hurcâ— and Elders and the rest of the Brethren might have done but we doe not read that they did speake after that Peter â—â—d James had opened the case but given their judgements 〈◊〉 it being thereby satisfied did aquiesse in the judgement of James Obj. But what if Peter and James had not ended the controversie Ans Then they were to have gone on in the same order and method untill they were satisfied for if order will not doe it I am certaine that confusion cannot And it likely that the Apostle Paul gained this experience at that meeting which he exhorteth the Corinthians to observe and so consequently all Churches in all their enterprises whatsoever viz. that all things might be done with decency and order 1 Cor. 14. 40. for God being the God of order 1 Cor. 14. 33. will doubtlesly require order in his Church 1 Cor. 11. 34. and therefore we are to conforme unto it SECT 6. THe Apostle also exhorteth that if any man speake in the Church it ought to be as an Oracle of God and we know that the manner of speaking by Oracle was gravely and sententiously delivering much matter in few words therefore this ought also to be a president unto our Brethren that though they may speake yet if that they cannot expresse themselves in such a manner as aforesaid they both offend against the exhortation of the Apostle as â—lso make a noyse and disturbe the Church to small or no purpose Againe as each particular Member of the Church hath liberty to speake in the Church concerning the affaires belonging to the Members of the Church so have they likewise power to Prophesie as cleerly appeareth from that text 1 Cor. 14. 31. where the Apostle saith Ye may all prophesie one by one c. and yet we are not hereby to understand that every of the Members of a Church ought to doe so not being able to divide the word aright for in this especially he ought to speake as an Oracle of God The Apostle therefore writeth these sayings to the Churches Wherefore the Apostle exhorteth to prophesie to excite and stir up the Members of each particular Church to covit these excellent gifts and that they should strive to goe one before another by a godly emulation giving them thereby to understand that if the very meanest in quality or condition of the Members of the Church of Christ can by acting the part of a Noble Berean viz. by their study and industry in the Scriptures attaine to the measure of such a gift as to speake as he ought to speake that then he may and ought to imploy his tallent as any of the rest whatsoever doubtlesse it being the very meanes by which Barnabas Simeon called Niger Lutius of Cyrene Manaen Aquilla Prisilla c. attained the gifts which they exercised in the Church of Antioch Act. 13. 1 c. SECT 7. ANd therefore by this president also our brethren of the present It is dangerous medling â—ith edge tooles Churches ought to be very cautations how they medle with such Edge-tooles for feare of the scandal that many arise from such actions whereof there is doubtlesse great cause of complaint in that by so doing the Church doth not receive edifying as also in that it administreth cause to the enemies of God to blasphem who many times commeth on purpose to such meetings to procure themselves Miâ—ch by glorying in our shame Obj. I commend you in that you are no Countenancer of disorder in your brethren for in very deed the boldnes and rudenesse of such members hath made your Churches eviâ— spoken of and disesteemed more then otherwayes they would have beene but yet if a member of your Church have but one tallant will you have him imploy it Ans Yea without all question but not in publike meetings How spirituall 〈◊〉 aâ—e to be â—â—actised for there the most powerfull meanes ought to be used in regard that the unbelievers have liberty to come to the publick Ordnance of preaching as well as any member of the Church And that by our Saviours commands Mat. 28. 19 20. Marke 16 16. who as I have said come for the most part to carpe at the doctrine delivered but in private meetings they ought to imploy their particular tallants for in so doing they may in time become such exspert Proficients in Theology as to teach publickly being called thereunto SECT 8. Obj. SVppose the Magistrate should not condiscend that either the Popish Clergy should be silenced or that such should be sent forth to gather Churches as you would have imployed how would you have the worke carried on Ans I confesse if the Magistrate should be refractory the wheele would be much longer in turning over but yet notwithstanding we are encouraged by the example of the Apostles The worke ought to be carried on though the Magistrate oppose it to imploy such instruments in the worke as are fit for such a purpose viz. for gathering of Churches for albeit that Herod with the Scribes Pharisees and Saduces bent their utmost power to oppose them and their Doctrine yet did they with an undaunted courage vindicate the truth albeit to the hazard of their lives yea and rejoyced that they were thought worthy to suffer for the testimonies thereof as doth evidently appeare by that Book titled their Acts which doubtlesse was written as a president to such as shall labour in the restoring of their decayed Churches by extracting them out of the world and Antichristianisme as the Apostles did out of Judisme and Heathenisme and therefore every one that is so fitted and satisfied in the truth of this assertion ought to apply himselfe to the Apostles presidents in all things to that purpose yea albeit the Heredians Scribes Pharisees and Saduces of these times shall oppose the worke yet ought they be like valient as the Apostles were remembring alwaies that it is better to obey God then men Act. 4. 19. But I hope better things from our present
of it they possitively conclude that it must be so of necessity although in the truth of the assertion it is no way agreeable to the will and appointment of Jesus Christ and thus have the rude multitudes been deluded by their Orthodoxall men for many ages who have purposely and knowingly kept the people in this blinde obedience for their owne particular advantage SECT 5. OF the like stampe is the signe of the Crosse which they use in Of the Crosse in Baptisme Baptisme being no more practised by the Apostles then the former for if they had without doubt they would have left some president for it in their writings which is not in the least to be found as mentioned to any such purpose as their Orthodoxall men very well know Historians say that this Ceremony of making The first use of the Crosse Crosses tooke its rise in the Primative times upon this occasion viz. The Pagans having the predominant power over Christians did in derision of Christ whom the Christians adored erected Crosses because he was hanged upon such an one hereupon the Christians to shew themselves not ashamed of such a God as did not despise so ignominious a death for the love he had to his elect did also make Crosses themselves in signification that they willingly owned that God whom the Pagans so much derided Now there being no such cause for the continuance of such Ceremonies viz. no people so shamelesly impudent why should not the effect cease viz. materiall Crosses for otherwise it was never used in Baptisme untill the Idolatrous and Superstitious Papists brought it in as a Sacramentall and signifying signe which being scandalous and having no ground from the Word as also never so used before amongst Christians or at the least by Christs Apostles as also abolished by all the reforming Churches it ought not to be approved or tollerated by us SECT 6. THeir confirmation or laying on of hands is also of the same Oâ— confirmation and laying on of hands linage for though the Apostles had power to give the Holy Ghost to whom they were directed so to doe by a secret inspiration of the same Spirit it doth not follow that the Mitered Bishops hath the like priviledge or power to grant the like strength of Spirituall grace in that manner and that for these reasons 1. Because they are usurpers of that Office and calling which Bishops usurpers of their office was conferred by Christ or his Apostles and so cannot any way justly claime any such power and anthority as the Apostles had which may appeare in that Christ did not commit the Government of his Church to dumbe Priests for whom he sent he sent to preach Luke 10. and not to make Crucifixes and blesse Altars or to observe mens traditions he meant not to play a Pagiant that men should disguise themselves by wearing Rochets Copes Surplices c. neither to preach his Gospel with windy eloquence but in the celestiall power of the Spirit as the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 2. 1. 4. but all these are done by these Prelates ergo not fit instruments to preach the Gospel SECT 7. Obj. PAul saith that he that desireth the office of a Bishop desireth a good worke Ans The Apostle in that place doth not meane a Bishop in his Bishop and Elder taken for one and the same Christ doâ—h not commit the government of hâ—s Church to dumbe Priests Palfrey standing like an Image but these words Shepheard Minister Bishop Elder c. are taken in holy Scripture for one and the same witnesse the Apostle Peter who termeth himselfe an Elder 1 Pet. 5. 1. he meant therefore such as are called into the Church of God to teach the people and to be a Watch-man over the Flock to preach the Word in season and out of season and not to put forth their owne Phantasiès and Dreames that calling is not an honour of idlenesse but a Soule-saving service and therefore to be a true Bishop is to be a faithfull Pastor to his Flock And certainly this dignity and superiority which they usurpe The originall of Bishops came to passe by some proud fellowes having a degree in humane learning above the rest of their Function and so took upon them that name of Bishop changing the tongue of the Holy Ghost for otherwise the same was a Priest which was a Bishop all executing the same office of Teaching and exhorting which Paul appointed for the Bishops yea it is most apparant that our Saviour gave no such power or preheminence to his Apostles as The Apostles of Christ did not usurpe authority on one another these usurpe one over another but contrariwise forbiddeth them to desire it Mat. 20. 26. It shall not be so amongst you As also Mat. 23. 8. where he exhorteth them not to be called Rabbi Rabbi as was the Scribes and Pharisees and that in regard he himselfe was their Doctor and they all Brethren and therefore ought not to Lord it one over another SECT 2. Obj. IF their calling be not from God whence 〈◊〉 it Ans From the Devill for they received it from the The Bishops calling originally from the Devill and so consequently those ordained by them Pope who is a Rebell to Christ and hath received his Calling from the Devill Rev. 17. 2. neither can these be said to be the Apostles Successors in regard they have not taken the Word of God for their guide but the traditions of Men and devices of their owne braine and the corrupt customes of their own Courts all which Christ abhorreth witnesse his sharp invectives against the Scribes and Pharisees for the like Mat. 7. 8. as also in that he termes it a vaine worship in regard he is only to be worshipped in Spirit and in truth Obj. They doe not deny the Word of God they would only have those Ceremonies and Customes of decency which hath been for a long time used in the Church still to be continued Ans To plead for Custome is dangerous Christ telleth us He A long and evill custome is not to be followed is the way the truth and the life he doth not say He is the Custome but he is the truth for in processe of time an evill custome may grow strong yea to be kept for a Law and yet it is not therefore the truth we ought then in matter of worship to apply our selves to Christ the truth and not to custome Again that they are not called of God may appeare in that Reasonâ— why they are not called of God they have combined together for themselves and contrived for their owne sinister ends and usurpation though to the great dispersion and division both in Church and State moving and fomenting of Warre and afflicting of the people of God not respecting any thing more then their owne glory and sinister respects by which they have laboured to raise themselves to honour as also in that they
forced to doe a thing contrary to his will but it is evident that those men who had formerly reâ—used the invitation was not compelled contrary to their mindes therefore there was no compulsion used by them messengers Obj. It appeareth by them whom the King tooke view of that they had been compelled in regard that one of them wanted a Wâ—dding Garment Ans No such thing for we read that Annanias Saphira Simon How farre 〈◊〉 may deceive Magus c. were no otherwise compelled then the â—est of the Beleevers and yet by their Hipocrisie they had got admission as Members of the Church of Christ as wel as the truest Beleever and so continued until the Spirit of God found them out and discovered their Hipocrisie and albeit the field of the Church cannot be throughly weeded from its tares must we suffer it therefore to be so over-spread as that the Corne cannot be discerned from them because some Hipocrites wil surke in the bosome of the Church so long as it is Militant by meanes of their Pharisaicall glosse and varnish which they put upon their actions must we therefore suffer all manner of scandalous notorious Blasphemers to cumber that little flocke Obj. It is said that the Servants did as their Lord commanded them which was to compell and if they had not been so compelled why was the word used Ans I have told you that a compulsive power is then said to be used when such as are obstinate and refractory are forced and constrained to become obedient and willing but them who so declared themselves were not compelled And according to the Simile such kinde of people as the other needed no compulsion to come to a Feast however to such a Feast And if we take the King there spoken of to be meant of a temporall King speaking to his Servants or Ministers then must the Parable also ayme at a temporall power but if it be meant of the Spirituall King Christ speaking to his Ministers or Messengers it must needs be meant of a Spirituall power which doth not belong to the civill Magistrate but to the Spirituall power of the Word in the Ministry thereof CHAP. IIII. Treateth of Cavalier Priests c. SECT 1. TO prove that those Priests whom they so imploy are not fit instruments for such a Calling or Office The Ministers they imploy viz. the Cavalier Priests not fit for such a service I thus argue All such Persons as obstinately and peremptorily confront the directions and precepts of Christ and his Apostles ought not to be imployed as Ministers of Christ But the Presbiterian Synod hath and doth admit of such men as doe absolutely oppose Christ and his Apostles Ergo in such Elections and Missions they doe wilfully and peremptorily oppose Christ and his Apostles and so consequently declare themselves violaters of the Covenant they so much plead for SECT 2. THat they doe imploy such Instruments as I have named I The numerous fry of them which yet remaine in that service instance in that fry of Cavilian Priests which are tollerated by them yea I blush to thinke what a Gallemaufrey or Hodgepodge they make in their Church whereas three parts of their Ministry and a third part of the fourth consisteth of Cavalier Priests yea it is to be admired in the highest degree that such fellowes who are companions farre more fit for Devils then such as professe Christianity should be employed in so sacred a Function yea when it was notoriously knowne unto the Sinod what persecutors they have been and yet would be of such men as the Sinod did consist of were it in their powers their words and actions still expressing their deadly hate both to them and the Government they would establish and yet for those men whom they so hate not only to make use of them to fill up their Classicall Parishes whereby to make themselves potent Wherefore the Presbiterians imploy Cavalier Priests in the world in having such numbers of Parsons and Viccars under their Jurisdiction but also to procure augmentations to the livings of divers of them either to the end that they may be more willing to submit to their Government or else to requite the good service they have already done for the Nation Now let all true Christians judge what will be the event of What hope of good can be expected from them the Presbiterian Government in this Nation by admitting such Antichristian Priests to preach Christ and what likelihood there is that such Priests should make choyce of Round-headed Elders c. if there be any in his Parish and what hopes of peace and truth can be expected when so many villaines shall be permitted to doe mischiefe by sowing tares amongst the wheat SECT 3. Obj. VVEre not those Priests you speake of lawfully called to their function or office Ans I deny they were for they cannot be lawfully called to Cavalier Priests not lawfully called to their office that office or function except either by an immediate calling from God as the Prophets and Apostles were called or by God and Man as was Matthias and the foure Deacons viz. by the Spirit of God and the Church where they are to officiate but that these Priests afore-named have neither of these callings will appeare by these reasons 1. In that immediate callings are ceased and therefore cannot Two sorts of calling to the Ministry of the Gospel viz. immediate and mediate be expected Gifts and Miracles being acted by the Apostles c. rather for the glorifying of Christ first comming in the flesh then after as will appeare by these Scriptures Joh. 20. 29 30 31. Mat. 20. 1. 8. Mark 3. 15. Luke 9. 1. c. As also in that the Man-hood of Christ is to be contained in the Heavens till the restoring of all things Act. 3. 21. therefore they that expect men to be so called and so gifted as the Apostles were to rebuild the Spirituall Jerusalem or to extract the Church of Christ out of the world and Antichristianisme may as well expect Christ comming None called now as were the Apostles againe in person which cannot be for the reasons formerly alledged and therefore it is impossible for them or any other to be so called to the publick Ministry in the Church of Christ in these times 2. As these Priests have not this immediate calling from God so are they not rightly constituted to their office by the immediate calling of the Church of Christ viz. according to the example of the Apostles in their constituting of Ministers it being then effected by the generall consent of the Church as of the Apostles Elders and Brethren as hereafter I shall make appeare at large SECT 4. Qu. WHat manner of calling have they Ans No other then the false Prophets had What calling the Cavilear Priests have whom the Lord himselfe complaineth of for preaching in his name and he had not sent them Ezek. 11.
you should not be satisfied with this that hath been spoken he giveth you fuller satisfaction in the latter clause of the second verse where he addeth to the former number of Saints spoken of at Corinth All that in every place call upon the name of the Lord Iesus now if you would have all that in every place call upon the name of the Lord Jesus to be of the representative Church then we shall soone agree Againe the second Epistle to the said Corinthians is said to be written to the Church of God which is at Corinth with all the Saints which are in all Achaia now shall we thinke that the Church at Corinth with all the Saints in Achaia were only of the representative Church if so what kinde of people would you have the rest of the Body to consist of SECT 5. Obj. I Must confesse by this you have spoken it is evident that Paul wrâ—t them Epistles and the rest to the reall Body of the Church to whom he sent them Ans If you had not I could have instanced in divers other places as Ephes 1. 1. Phil. 1. 1. Col. 1. 1. wherein then doe you require any further satisfaction touching the point in question which may not be concluded from your confession Obj. What can you inferre from my confession which may availe you in your enterprise Ans As much as possible I can desire for by granting to this That which was written to â—hâ— whole Church doth â—elâ—ng to the whole Church to effect which indeed you could not avoyd it must of necessity follow that whatsoever is contained in those generall Epistles to the whole Body of the Church must belong to the whole Church and not to any members set apart from the whole which you would have a representative Church Obj. You seeme to have read Doctor Stewarts Dupley to M. S. alies two Brethren who were Independants Ans Yes I have read the first and second part of it but the title of Independant which he putteth upon the quinque Eclesian Ministers rather suteth with himselfe Obj. Why doe you take him to be an Independant Ans Yea rather then the other for he that will rather subscribe He is no Independant that doth depend upon the Scriptures to the judgement of any reforming Church now extant then to the president left by Christ and his Apostles may certainly he termed an Independant rather then they who doe subscribe to the practise of the Apostles and doth relinquish the other But Doctor Stewart and the the rest of the Presbiterian Faction subscribe to the tradissions of their Orthodoxall Divines as they call them and not to the Apostles as I shall clearly make appeare Ergo such men deserve the title of Independants and not the other whom they so terme SECT 6. Obj. VVOuld you not have them depend upon their Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Sinods Ans We finde no such termes of prâ—heminence in Scripture as No such termes as Classical Provinciall or Nationall Sinods found in Scriptures I have formerly told you and therefore we are not to allow of any such place of dignity and if there had been a dependancy belonging to the Apostles after the Assention of Christ certainely it had belonged unto Peter as I have formerly shewed but that the Apostles did not absolutely depend upon the judgement of Peter is manifestly cleared at the decision of the controversie about Circumcision Act. 15. the due observance of which Dispute wil fully cleare the matter in question For 1. We finde that the Assembly collegated together to decide that controversie was not meerly the Apostles themselves who certainly either then or since was the most able to have decided it of themselves but we finde in the same text that the Apostles admitted also of the Elders of the Church then with them at Jerusalem yea and not only these but also the Brethren so that it is manifest that Counsell consisted of the reall Body of the Church then at Jerusalem and not of any members set apart from the whole 2. We read that albeit Peter was the first that opened the The Brethâ—en had a joynt interest and concurrency in all matters concerning the Church case in that difference as commonly he was in all other in regard of his boldnesse yet did the Apostles and Elders and the rest of that Church rather allow of the judgement of James then of Peter as we have it in the 22. verse of that Chapter whereas had they been absolutely to have depended upon Peters judgement it had been a presumption in James to have spoken or if they had been to have depended upon the judgement of James it had been the like for Peter to have spoken but that they were not bound to depend on either of them or any of the rest may appeare in that either all or most of them used their Christian liberty in the matter of Dispute as either Peter James or any other of the Assembly as cleerly appeareth in the seventh Verse 3. It is also evident that not only in this matter of controversie but also at other times yea the Apostles never urged the Church to confide in their Judgement or Doctrines further then they found it consonant to the Scriptures witnesse the Bereans whom they commended for so doing Act. 17. 11. SECT 7. NOw it thus appearing that there was no Priority amongst No priority amongst the Apostles the Apostles under their immediate calling why should there be any amongst the Ministers of Christ under their mediate calling if not amongst them equals why amongst these Againe to depend upon any unlesse we knew him or at least did beleeve him to be infallable were a meere madnesse and absolute Popery yea in such a dependance the Papists are to be commended above the Presbiterians for their dependance upon the Pope is on no other ground but that they think he cannot erre but I suppose the Presbiterians wil not deny but that their Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Sinods may and doth erre and therefore to depend solely upon such is no lesse then popery Obj. They hate Popery they will depend upon the Canonnicall Scriptures of the Old and New Testament Ans If so therein they agree with them whom they terme Independants and this they may doe without appealing to their Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Sinods for in matters of Divinity to appeale to such is either that we hold them to be infalible or our selves novices Againe thus to depend is to run What it is to depend upon one another our selves into an infinitum as from the Brethren to the Elders from the Elders to the Pastor from the Pastor to the Classis from the Classis to the Provinciall and from the Provinciall to the Nationall which if not infallible to whom unlesse to the Pope Obj. They hate the Pope I told you to the Canonicall Scriptures Ans And I tell you againe that the Canonicall Scripture
which may concerne The reall Church had power to chuse Deacons the Church where the reall body of the Church hath not to doe in his election SECT 5. Obj. SHew me where the reall Body of the Church at Jerusalem had power to elect Deacons Ans To prove that I instance in Act. 6. 5. where the multitude of Disciples is said to make choyse of the seven Deacons there mentioned Obj. It cannot be collected from that text that the multitude had a voyce in that election but if they had it was only in the instituting of Churches but not in a Church already established and furnished with all her ordinary Church Officers Ans When a Church is already established and furnished with all her ordinary Church Officers what need then hath it to elect more Officers but not to mistake your meaning your Argument is very weake yea very rediculous for if the reall Body of a Church gathered by the Apostles were permitted that priviledge and power by the Apostles themselves yea even in the first instituting of Churches which if ever a representative Church ought to have done of it selfe ought the most to have been then both by reason of the abilities of the Apostles above others as also to have been a patterne to all representative Churches for the future but seeing at that time when if ever it should have been done as a president to all insuing Ages it was not effected without a joynt interest and concurrence of the rest of the Brethren which appertained to that Church then present at Jerusalem how much more ought they now to enjoy that priviledge which the Apostles so confirmed upon them And seeing they were thought worthy by the Apostles to lay the foundation of the Church how much more ought they to be permitted as coasistants in the building if in the institution of Churches then gathered out of Judisme and Heathenisme why not in the like gatherings now out of Antichristianisme SECT 6. Obj. PVt the case they had a voyce in the election yet it followeth not that they had a voyce in the examining or judgeing of their sufficiency seeing they had not judgement or sufficiency of themselves to judge thereof Ans To see how you will prejudicate things How know you the abilities that them Disciples had yea you dis-allow that judgement to be in them Disciples which the text doth justifie of them for how could they have made choyse of such a man as Stephen and the other Deacons who is said to be full of the Holy Ghost if they had not had judgement to have discerned their abilities yea those of your owne judgement allowed them Disciples to have judgement in the examen of a Deacons life as D. S. granteth Obj. If they have judgement in the examen yet have they not judgement in his other gifts Ans Wherein is the Apostles ever said to question them more after their election by the Disciples but that forth-with after they were so elected and presented by the Disciples or Brethren to the Apostles and Elders they are said to goe to prayers and then laid their hands on them Act. 6. 6. Obj. Put the case that these Deacons were ordained by the consent of the people yet followeth it not that this consent was a voyce because it was not asked of every one apart Ans Put the case it signifieth what it doth signifie viz. that they were ordained by the content of the people which is that I stand for and for that their consent was not a voyce because it was not asked of every one apart I answer by a demand how you know they were not asked every one apart seeing the text is neither for it or against it neither is it needfull at all times in Counsels to put questions to particular voyces when the case is cleare as it is very probable it was to them Disciples in that they immediatly consented but however they agreed we read they did agree without any noyse of strife or division amongst themselves which you think to be a thing impossible to be done at any such occasion And seeing that election was so quietly carried on why may not the like be done in these dayes SECT 7. Obj. BY your former expressions you confesse that the Eldership and Presbitery of the Apostles and Elders did principally and authoritative act and not the whole Church or people they in a lower and lesse interest as by way of choyse vote and consent Ans It was very requisite that the Apostles of our Lord and How the Apostle had a preheminence above others Saviour Jesus Christ who was immediatly called by him to that purpose should have a preheminence before them who were but mediatly called by them but seeing there is no such immediate calling to be expected all being now called by one and the same mediate meanes whether it be to the Ministry or any other Office in the Church it is very fitting that the Members of each Church so called should likewise enjoy the same priviledge under the mediate calling as did the other under the immediate calling Obj. What priviledge would you have allowed the Church now under its mediate calling Ans That one Minister should not usurpe over another and so in the rest of the Offices in the Church neither to take place each of other unlesse upon a Morall respect of age zeale gifts or the like Obj. Would you not allow the Pastors and Elders under this mediate calling the same power which the Apostles and Elders had under their immediate Calling Ans Yes if they prove the like Proficients as did the Apostles and Elders but they of the Presbitery take farre more state upon them then did the Apostles and Elders as I have and shall yet make appeare SECT 8. Obj. IT is manifest that the Apostles did ordaine Presbiters and Deacons and gave rules concerning christian Discipline and had power of exercising censures over Presbiters and others which these places of Scripture as Act. 14. 13. Act. 6. 6. 1 Cor. 16. 1. 1 Cor. 14. 1 Cor. 5. 3. 3 Epist Joh. 9. 10. doe prove Ans It is acknowledged but I have told you and now tell The reall Body of the Church had an interest concurrence in all things appertaining to the 〈◊〉 you againe that there ever went a joynt interest and concurrence of the Church in all their proceedings which those Scriptures viz. by comparing the 15. and 23. verses of Acts 1. as also by comparing Act. 6. 3. 5. 6. Act. 13. 1 2 3 4. with Act. 14. 26 27 28. and so in the consequences of the Discourse in the insuing Chapter as ver 1 2 3 4 12 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 30. 33. as also the whole of all Pauls Epistles doe prove as I have formerly declared in that they were written to the reall Body of every Church to whom they were sent and therefore each thing concerned in them was also to be performed by
the whole Church and not of any other particular part thereof as a representative of the whole without elected by the whole as hereafter I shall prove at large Obj. It is manifest that Timothy and Titus who were mediately called had power also of exercising censures over Presbiters and others which these places of Scripture 1 Tim. 5. 22. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Tim. 5. 19. Tit. 3. 10. doe witnesse Ans This is also granted but you are so sottish to thinke that the priviledge which the Apostles permitted the reall Body of the Church in such affaires was taken from them had they interest in all the Apostles affaires concerning the Church and must they be debarred it by Timothy and Titus Might they be be permitted as I said before to â—ay the foundation and not to build to elect an Apostle and not a Presbiter to have voyce in the counsels and decrees of the Apostles who were immediatly called and be debarâ—ed the like priviledge by Timothy and Titus doubtlesse it was the grosse or rather wilful mistake of some proud Lucrean Priest such as the Sinod consisted of who first assumed that christian priviledge unto themselves from them Scriptures SECT 9. Obj. PAul had a commanding power over Titus chap. 1. 5. ergo one Minister over another Ans Paul and the rest of the Apostles were immediatly called None now equall in power with the Apostles and therefore had a greater priviledge then them who were but mediatly called by them and the Church but there is none now so immediatly called and so equall in power and authority to the Apostles and as touching the commanding power you speake of I answer that the Apostles under their immediate calling could not compell or force one another by way of authority and would you conferre a greater power on theâ—r who are but mediatly called I see your pride will appeare above board you have forgâ—t Christs answer to your Predecessors in ambition Mâ—â— â—â— â—â— â—6 â—7 c. as also how it was relished by the rest of the Apostles â—â—r 24. Obj. The Apostles sent Judas and â—las to Antioch ergo they had power over them Ans That is argued like the rest for by the same reason the rest of the Apostles had a commanding power over Peter and John whom they are said to send to Samaria Act. 8. 14. as also the Church at Antioch in sending Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem Act. 15. 2. which were to crosse the injunction of our Saviour Mat. 20. 25. c. therefore no rationall man can imagine that those Missions or sendings were any other then when Committees are appointed by the Parliament out of their owne Members to act particular businesses proper to the House which Committees being Members doe not lose any part of their power or Membership during their absence in the House upon that Committee though distant from the House have you been seven or eight yeares so neare the House and yet ignorant of such customs Obj. As them Members of Parliament are a Committee the remaining Members in Parliament have a superiour power above them they being the supreame Court Ans Were it so yet you still argue against your selfe for that proveth that the supreame power remaineth in the real body of the Parliament and so consequently of the Church viz that the Church at Antioch had a supreame power over and above Paul and Barnabas as the Church at Jerusalem over Judas and Silas being sent by them as Committees so that you no waies advantage your selfe by your evasion SECT 10. Obj. TImothy and Titus had not only power to ordaine Presbiters and Deacons but also of exercising Sensures over Presbiters and others as also the Angels of the Churches are said to have Rev. 2. 3. chap. Ans What work you make with poore Timothy and Titus to uphold your pride and covitousnesse but I cannot better answer this point then in the words of your owne Language to his late Majesty in Carisborow Castle only I shall paraphraise something by the buy as in answer to your own particulars by speaking to you as to them of the Sinod that writ that answer viz. I cannot say they had this power as the Apostles Substitutes or Successors in Presbiterian Government or that they exercised the power they had as being Presbiters in the sence of you Presbiterians but as extraordinary Officers or Evangelists which Evangelists were an office in the Church distinct from Vid fol. â— Pastors and Feachers Ephe. 4. 11. And that they were Evangelists it appeares by their being sent up and downe by the Apostles or taken along with them in company to severall Churches as the necessity and occasion of the Church did require the one of them being expresly called an Evangelist 2 Tim. 4. 5. and neither of them being any where in Scripture called Presbiterian in your sence neither were they fixed to Ephesus and Creet as Presbiters in the Churches committed to them as you would be in London and Westminster but removed from thence to other places and never for ought appeares in Scripture returned to them againe And it seemes cleare to me that neither their abode at Ephesus or Creet was for any long time especially for so long a time as you have sitten at Westminster Nor was it so intended by the Apostles or our Parliament for the Apostles imployed them there upon occasionall businesse as his expressions intimateth 1 Tim. 1. 3. Tit 1. 5. which words doth not carry the fixing and constituting of a Sinod of Presbiters in a place as perpetuall Governours SECT 11. ANd as touching those Angels mentioned in the Revelations Vid. fol. 7â— I answer also in words of your owne coyning viz. that they were in no place called Presbiters in vulgar acceptation neither is there mention of Superiority of one Presbiter to another as a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Sinod but in Diotrophes in effecting of it as you of the Sinod did not And for the more cleare and full satisfaction of your Worships in this point I will briefly declare into what Officers hands the ordinary standing Office of the Church were transmitted and derived by and from the Apostles The Apostles had no Successors in eundem gradum the Apostolicall office was not derived by Succession being established by Christ by extraordinary and speciall commission but for the ordinary and standing use of the Church there were ordained only two orders of Offices viz. Bishops and Deacons which the Apostle expresseth Phil. 1. 1. and only of them doth the Apostle give the due character of 〈◊〉 â— 1 Tiâ—â— 3. 2. 8. from both which places of Scripture 〈…〉 that besides Presbiters Viâ— fol. 8. there is no other Order but 〈…〉 and though the order of a Presbiter 〈…〉 order of a Deaâ—on yet in the same order of a Deâ—â—on or 〈◊〉 there was not any one superiour to another no 〈◊〉 wâ—â— above an Apostle no Evangelist above an Evangelis◠〈◊〉 Presbiter
must then be the Umpire when all is done CHAP. VI. Treateth of the judgeing of Scripture c. SECT 1. Objection WHo must be Judge of the truth of the Scriptures touching such particular differences as may arise in controversie Ans Who was Judge betwixt the Apostles Paul and Barnabas and the noble Bereans in any difference The Scriptures must be the Vmpire when all is done of opinions which they either were or might be formerly possessed of before or during that time the aforesaid Apostles were conversant amongst them was it not the guidance of the Spirit of God the only true interpreter of Scripture which did dictate to them the truth thereof Which spirit of discerning they obtained by their industry in studying the Scriptures daily Act. 17. 11. SECT 2. Obj. TRue that indeed is the only interpreter of the Word but is it not more likely that Learned men should have it rather then them that have little or no learning such as Coblers Tinckers Weavers Millers c. Ans What was Aquilla Prisilla or the reall Body of the Church in Corinth unto whom the Apostle Paul gave way to Prophecy 1 Cor. 14. 41. yea and willeth them to covit it chap. 14 39. were they all Accademicks Againe if the Spirit of God be confined to Learning then such as are illiterate are voyd of it and so consequently are not the children of God for the same Apostle saith that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his Rom. 8. 9. Againe if the Spirit of God be confined to Learning then the greater Schollars the greater measure of the Spirit and so consequently the Church of Rome would carry it from all the Churches in the world which I presume you will not condescend too yea the contrary is most evident as may appeare by them learned ones at Athens Act. 17. 23. yea I desire you to read the first Chapter of the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians from the seventeen verse to the end of the Chapter as also Jam. 2. 5. and then tell me if it be not more probable for such whom you terme illiterate fellowes to have the Spirit of God rather then the great Rabbies and Doctors of the world and if so consequently they have more knowledge in the Scriptures for the Spirit searcheth all things even the deep things of God as in the tenth verse of that Chapter by which they are made more fit and able to teach then the other yea and ought so to doe no man being to hide his tallent but to put it into the banke Mat. 25. 27. c. Againe all Scriptures are given by inspiration and 2 Tim. 13. 16. and not of private interpretation 2 Pet. 1. 20 21. But holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost so that it is impossible for the greatest Schollar in the world to apprehend the mistâ—ry of them being in a carnall condition yea to such they are foolishnesse and therefore not regarded or esteemed of them further then they can accomplish their owne private ends by making a seeming shew of their affâ—ction to them as is too apparent witnesse the Hypocriticall Clergy of the times who preach meerly for matter of Stipent or Wages as if Christ intended to make a Trade of his Ministry yea I appeale to the consciences of such parents who put their Children to the Vniversity whether it be not more out of an intent to get their Sons Livings viz. a Parsonage c. then out of a cordiall desire to advance the Kingdome of Christ by all which it is manifest that such Mechanick men as you have named being endowed with the Spirit of God may doe better service in the Ministry of the Word then the most learned Doctors in the world being most of them destitute of it and therefore cannot discerne the things of God SECT 3. AGaine the same question might have rissen betwixt the aforesaid Apostles and the Bereans yea doubtlesse the Apostles might rather have blamed the Bereans for not confiding in their judgements then the Presbiterian Sinod the Independants for the Apostles were assured of the Spirit of God to direct The Bereans commended by the Apostles for compaâ—â—â—g their Doctrin with the Scripture them in their expositions of the Scripture and yet they were so farre from envying the Bereans for not presently complying with their Doctrines untill they had compared them with the Scriptures as that they applauded them for it Again of the two one would have thought the Bereans should have grounded upon the Apostles judgement then their owne but we see that such a christian liberty was given them by the Apostles as that they were not constrained to beleeve they rather desiring to leave the issue of their Doctrine to the opperation of the Spirit of God by which they might be guided in the truth which being but one would make their judgements one as it did at length So in like manner ought the Spirit of God to have its opperation betwixt Teachers and Hearers and not because men will not immediately comply with mens Doctrines to raile upon them and call them Schismaticks Hereticks Independants c. when as indeed if the Raylors themselves would act the Bereans part they would not long continue in their owne present judgements in many things SECT 4. Obj. IS any Church now extant so infallable that it needeth no advice of any Ans No Church ought to be so esteemed upon earth infallability One Church may advise with another ought only to be ascribed to the Spirit of God in the Scriptures and for matter of advice and counsell in any Spirituall matter it is requisite that one Church make use of another as the Church of Antioch did of the Church at Jerusalem but not absolutely to depend upon them Obj. Did not the Church of Antioch depend upon the determinate conclusion of the Church at Jerusalem Act. 15. 2. Ans The text doth not say that they did absolutely depend The Church at Antioch did not depend on that aâ— Jerusalem upon it but that it sent to the Church at Jerusalem about the question which doth imply that it was only to advise with them or to crave their judgements in the matter in controversie and not to resolve right or wrong to depend upon their judgements as also in that the Messengers which were sent were Apostles as the other were to whom they were sent and as infallible as the other and so their equals as the Apostle Paul testifieth of himselfe Gal. 2. 6. Againe suppose that the Church at Jerusalem had determined that the Church at Antioch should have admitted of Circumcision and enjoyned it upon the Brethren at Antioch were either the Apostles or them of Antioch bound to have obeyed them decrees knowing that all such Ceremonies were ended in Christ Obj. No in that they ought to have obeyed God rather then Man Ans Then you conclude that
above a Presbiter no Deacon above a Deacon And if â—o how will your Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Sâ—â—ods â—oâ—d together by which you doe assume a power beyond the power which the Apostles used in the Church binding and consining your fellow Presbiters to observe your Injunctions and Decrees as if you were rather Apostles then Presbiters admitting only such Creatures as are of your owne stamâ—e into the Ministry and to such must all the Parishes of the Kingdome subscribe and admit of whether they have either seene or heard of them before or no your approbation is sufficient if they have but received the Popish stampe of Orders by your Predecâ—ssors the Bishops they are well enough otherwise not how gifted soever they be SECT 12. AGaine in your answer to his late Majesty you say That no other Persons or Officers of the Church may challenge oâ— assume to themselves such power as did the Apostles in that respect alone viz. because the Apostles practised it except such power belong to them in common as well as to the Apostles by warrant of Scripture which that it doth your Sinod is yet to prove You there also confesse that our Saviour and his Apostles did not so leave the Church at liberty as that any substantials belonging to Church Government which were appointed by Christ and his Apostles may be altered at pleasure and then I am certaine that your Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Sinods will not agree with the other left by Christ and his Apostles and therefore I beseech the Honourable House of Parliament to looke rather to the originall of those your Powers then the succession of them And thus you have made an Episcopall rod to whip your owne britch Obj. That which is called ordination was by the Apostles and a power established in the Presbitery and not in the Church as mâ—â—re beleevers Ans I have proved and shall prove that the Brethren as well as the Presbitery had a joynt interest and concurrency in all power which belonged to the Church CHAP. VIII Of the Churches power to chuse their Officers SECT 1. Objection HOw prove you the election of Pastors and Elders by the Church or people Ans Even by the renowned Doctor Stewarts The Church hath power to chuâ—e its Pastors owne confession in his learned Dupley where he voluntarily and ingeniously confesseth and acknowledgeth albeit to the marring of his Market that no Minister or any other Church Officer ought to be thrust upon a people or Congregâ—tion no more then a Husband is to be forced upon a woman against her will and that however such a Pastor may goe to the Pulpit and preach amongst them yet unlesse they consent he is not their Minister Thus far the learned Doctor And if so with what impudence have you of the Sinod dispatched your owne tribe to officiate where you your selves please by vertue of an Apostolicall power which you proudly usurpe unto your selves condemning it in others when as it so clearly appeares and that by a Bird of your owne feather that every Church hath power to judge of the ability and sufficiency of their Pastor Obj. If the Dector had thought you would have made such use of his expressions he would have kept them in however it is but one Doctors opinion Are you able to prove from Scripture that the reall body at â—erusalem had such power given them by the Apostles and Elders Ans Yea I am able to prove that they had a voyce in chusing The reall Church chose Matthias to be an Apostle of Matthias to the Apostleship from Act. 1. 23. SECT 2. Obj. THat text doth not say that the people viz. every one of them gave their voyce for if so then Mary and the rest of the women voyced also which was contrary to Pauls command who saith that women are to keep silence in the Church and therefore certainly none did voyce but such as had power to voyce Ans Neither doth the text say that the women did transgresse Women mâ—y prophâ—sie if so gifted that precept given by Paul in speaking but as you mightâ—ly mistake the Apostle in other things so in this for in that place where the Apostle commandeth women to be silent in the Church it is only meant concerning preaching and propheying as doth clearly appeare 1 Cor. 14. 36. and not of other conference in the Church for if so Aquilla surely did offend in speaking in her owne house it being a receptacle for the Church Neither is it altogether forbidden in the sence of Prophecying if they be so gifted Obj. I pray you remember your selfe doâ— not goe about to contradict the Apostle as that he knew not what he said Ans That which I have said I am able to justifie by Scripture yea by the Apostle Paul himselfe if need require Obj. Hold me no longer in dispence but satisfie me how it may be and not to contradict the rule set downe by the Apostle Paul 1 Cor 14. 34. Ans I shall prove it by the Old and New Testament and first in the Old Testament I instance in Miriam Numb 12. 2. where Aaron and Miriam object against Moses in these words Hath not the Lord also spoken by us Such Prophetesses also were Deborah Hanna and Huldah and in the New Testament Hanah the daughter of Pannuel as also Philips foure daughters which were Prophetesses Act. 20. 9. SECT 3. Obj. BVt were these Prophetesses to teach publickly Ans These Prophetesses being extraordinarily stirred Gifâ—s of Prophesie aâ—e given to â—diâ—â—â— the Church up did also publickly Prophesie and not only privately in their families as may appear by these reasons viz. 1. Because the gift of Prophesie was given them to edifie the Church withall 1 Cor. 14. 3. they then having the gist did use it to the right end viz. publickly 2. It is confirmed by example in that passage I have named touching Miriam Numb 12. 2. Hath not the Lord spoken also by us 3. Deborah is said to judge Israel publickly being a Prophetesse Jud. 4. 4. she did therefore exercise her Propheticall gift publickly 4. The Apostle Paul himselfe dis-alloweth not of it 1 Cor. 11. 5. where speaking of women Prophecying saith not that it is unlawfull for women to Prophesie but that it is not decent for them to Prophesie with their heads uncovered by all which it appeares that some women in Pauls time being Prophetesses such as Philips foure daughters did Prophesie and that publickly Obj. The Apostle there doth not speake of the particular act of women but of the act of the Congregation which is said to pray or prophesie Ans It is apparent to the contrary by the use of the Word elsewhere viz. Ye may all prophesie one by one 1 Cor. 14. 31. for there the Apostle speaketh of the particular act of Prophecying Obj. Wherefore then doth the Apostle injoyne the women silence in the Church 1 Cor. 14. 31. Ans To reconcile these places