Thes differences woulde haue serued yow as well as those and possiblie yf they had taken yow in the heade yowe woulde neuer haue let them goe withowt giuing some tribute to the lengthening off your boke But in all this diuersitie yow recken vp there is a perpetual harmonie againste the election made by one bishope againste the ambition off the elder which thrusteth owte his fellowe elders against the church robbers especially which bende ther force to spoile the people of ther consente in election off their ministers Yf yowe had shewed any diuersitie in this yow mighte haue helped your cause somewhat To those which are bleare eide one light semeth two and ther fore to M. D. which hathe the eie sight off his minde scattered they seme to differ which agree well together I well remembred what I wrote and yt hathe not the weighte off a feether to ouertourne the election off the minister by the people For yt followethe not because one deacon is inferior to the pastor therfore the whole churche is inferior to ether the pastor or the deacon or the deacon may not chuse the pastor therfore the whole churche may not chuse him But this had bene wel concluded one deacon is inferior to the pastor therfore muche more one of the people ād one decon can not chuse a pastor therfore muche lesse one off the people Which mighte haue bene casely considered by proportion off the bodye which S. Paule dothe so often poincte owte the estate off the churche by For sett a parte the heade which is our sauiour Christe and ther is no one parte so noble or so necessarie but being compared together with all the partes off the bodie that are vnder yt it giueth place and is inferior vnto them And it may be shewed by example that they that in a societie be equall yea superior vnto any one in that societie are notwithstanding inferior to the whole Peter and Iohn were equall vnto any two in the whole colledge off the Apostels and yet they were inferiour to the whole companie off the Apostels For beinge sente off them they muste be inferiour to those that sente them and being Ambassadors from them they receiued commaundement Paul and Barnabas were by their dignitie off Apostleship superior to any whiche were in the churche off Antioche and inferior to the whole churche for the cause before alledged Furthermore wee doe not permit the choise off the pastor to the people onely but to the choise off the eldership so that althoughe the people alone shoulde not be superior vnto the pastor yet all together are which haue to doe in that election And althoughe thes thinges are so plaine that they coulde not lightly be hyddē from him that hathe but moued his lypp to the cuppe of sounde diuinitie yet maister D. standeth still amased merueiling as he that hauing stepte manie years whē he awaked thowghte al thinges straunge Thes are the knowē lawes of the howse where yow were borne where also yow vndertake professiō of Do. yt is a great fault that yow are a straūger at home The peoples examinatiō off their ministers especially standeth in their behauiour And seinge in the churche off God from him that cleaueth wood to her which grindethe in the mill ther is none so ignorant but knowe and can giue reason off principall poinctes off the Christian religion the Elders which be the flowre off the church can much lesse be so ignorant as yowe make them Naashe the Amonyte meaning to dishonour the people off God thowghte yt reproche enoughe to the Gilcades yf he mighte haue put owte their right eies and althowghe a barbarous and cruell enemie off the people off God yet woulde haue satisfied him selfe with that but yow are not cōtente with that onles yow put owte bothe their eies and leaue them as blinde and ignorant bussardes Thes reproches off ignorance so oftētimes caste vpon the people off God are not spoken with the toūge off Canaan but is the proper dialecte off the Papistes and yt is reprochefull not vnto men but vnto the sonne off God whose bodie the churche is and whereoff he is the heade The prophet speaking off churches which should be gathered vnder the gospell saithe that the earthe shall be full of the knowledge off God as the waters vvhich couer the sea the accomplishment wheroff maie appeare in all places where there is any teaching minister which dothe the office of a faithfull pastor I coulde a great deale easelier beare the reproches which you vtter againste me but vvhen I heare yow thus raile vppon the lordes hoste so indefinitely speakīge of the churches of God yow are vntollerable yet if I shoulde speake againste this as oft as yow giue occasion I shoulde neuer haue doone And if nether yow vvill ceasse this language nor those that shoulde looke vnto yt vvill stope this incircumcised mouthe I vvill commit the cause vnto the lorde and vvaite for his iudgement Off the meanes of an exacte examination off the habilitie off the pastor with owte the helpe off the lorde bishoppe is spoken in an other place vvhere shall be examined vvhat the D. hath to saie It hathe appeared howe vntrwe yt is that the Deacō is superior or hathe moe giftes thē the reste of the bodie of the churche And besides that yt shall appeare in place a moste absurde sayinge that the deacon is aboue that elder which I meane for I meane the same vvhich S. Paule meaneth ther was no occasion at all here to speake off the superioritie off a deacon vnto a senior For ether he owghte to proue a deacon aboue a pastor or els he hathe saide nothinge to that vvhiche is in question In the 308 page the Bishoppe is auowed to be a Pastor here he is Superior to a Pastor and therfore no Pastor for there can be no comparison but betwene twoo thinges at the leste ād yt is very strange that a man shoulde be higher then him selffe So that to defend these bishops and Archebishops the Ans hath neede haue a newe grammer and a newe logicke for they transcende and goe beionde all the rules that euer yet vvere hearde of I knowe what is vsed with vs but is that a sufficient answer is this yowr defense off the booke I proue him to be deacō and yow can not denie it therupō I cōclude that he is inferior to the pastor and yow saie I knowe an archdeacon withe vs maie be minister off the worde But the Question is not vvhat he is but what he maie be by the vvorde off God for yow owghte to haue shewed that a man may haue the order off pastor and deacon at once For yf he be but a deacon and no pastor then beinge inferior to the Pastor he owghte not by him selfe alone iudge of the sufficiencie off a Pastor yf he be bothe a Deacon and a pastor at once then in steade off ministers yow bringe monsters
then a dowsen lines of the place from whence he rente this Hauinge inueighed againste the Popishe election bothe for that in yt one bishoppe hathe all the powre and for the vnworthines off those which were chosen he addethe yt semethe therfore that there ys nothinge so agreable to the ordinance off god and to the oulde institution as that all the vvhole church off the faithfull amongeste a people together vvithe certaine learned and godlie bishopes ad other faithful mē hauinge skill in thinges shoulde choose a pastor and a lytle after Let therfore thes provvde bishops and folish Abbats goo shake their eares for yt is conueniente that the righte off the election shoulde be in the povvre off the churche off the faithfull instructed by the counsels off learned men for as that matter ovvghte not to be in the povvre of one so ovvghte not the rude and vnlearned multitude chalenge vnto yt selfe alone so great vveighte off the election c. Let vs nowe see whether the Ans be anie faithfuller in alledginge Maister Bullinger Firste who denieth that Paule and Barnabas did chuse elders and ministers there When we gyue vnto them the gouernmente and direction off the action there is no reasonable man can Imagin that we shut them owte off the election But iff yow thinke that because maister Bullinger saithe they chose therfore he affirmethe that they chose alone and withowte the churche thes wordes can by no means proue yt his iudgemente in other places quite ouerthroweth yt heare therfore what M. Bull. writeth Those vvhiche thincke meaninge the papistes that the bishops and Archbishop haue povvre to make ministers vse thes places of the scripture Therfore I lefte the at Crete that thovv mighteste appointe elders tovvne by tovvne and againe take heede thovv laye not thy handes rashely of any but vve ansvver that the Apostels did not vse anie tyrannie in the churches nor to haue them selues alone doone these thinges vvhiche perteined ether to the election or ordination other men in the churche shut ovvte For the Apostels and elders did create bishops and elders in the church but communicatinge their counsaile vvithe the churches yea and vvithe the consente and approuing off the people vvhiche dothe appeare plainly by the election and ordination off Mathias c. And there citinge howe Moses did cōmunicate the choise off the magistrates withe the people he addeth And so no dovvbte did blessed Titus althovvghe he had hearde thovv shalte appoincte elders in Creta yet vnderstood that nothinge vvas permitted hym to doo priuatly vvithovvte the aduise off the church And because this place is cited also to proue that Maister Bullinger shoulde thinke that the Election 14. Actes shoulde be made by Barnabas and Paule let the Doctor heare what maister Bullinger writethe in the page before sayinge That the lorde from the beginninge gaue authoritie to the churche to chuse and ordeine fit ministers hathe been shevved before in the second sermone off this decade by the example off the moste eldeste churches in the vvorlde Ierusalem and Antioche vvheroff the one did not onely ordeine seuen Deacons but also Matthias the Apostle the other did set aparte to the ministrie the tvvoo notable Apostels off Christe Paule and Barnabas vvherunto is added that the churches off the gentills beinge instructed or directed off Paule and Barnabas did chuse by voices elders or gouernours off the churche Where also he quoteth the same place off the Actes whiche is here in question Thes was I constrained good reader to set downe that thow mighteste vnderstande that the weapons wherwithe the D. fightethe againste this cawse are not as he falsly pretendeth drawne from the godly writers but ministred vnto him by some owte off the armorie off the papistes whose they onely be The places whiche I alledged proue firste that yt is vsuall in the scripture to ascribe that to the principall in an action whiche is commen to them withe other then that althowghe S. Luke had made no mention off the election off the churche but onely saide that Barnabas and Paule chose yet therby coulde not be concluded that the churche had no intereste in the election but onely this that Paule and Barnabas were the cheife in that action Yff that be ascribed vnto Iosue whiche he procured onely and layed no hand vnto howe much more maie yt be ascribed vnto Paul and Barn. whiche they bothe procured ād had some doinge in and therfore that example of al is moste apte for that wherfore it is alleadged I perceiue there is nothinge so cleare whiche the D. will not essaie to darcken seing he saith that yt rather appeareth that the people permitted the election off those gouernours to Moses The contrarie wheroff manifestly appearethe for after that in the 9. verse Moses had bydd them chuse gouernours in the nexte verse he saithe that the people accepted that commaundmente and thowght off yt as a thinge equall Therfore it is moste vntrwe that they retourned yt into Moyses handes againe for then they woulde haue answered that yt was not meete for hym to committe the election vnto them but rather for the wisdome wherin he excelled to doo yt him selfe And where the D. reasoneth off the 15. verse vpon the wordes I toke c. that phrase dothe rather ouerthrowe his purpose then cōfirme yt for it semethe to haue a relation to the gyuinge ād presentinge of those whiche they they had chosen And the very same Phrase is vsed afterwardes in the 23. vers of the spies whiche were sente to spie the lande which notwithstandinge were not onely sente off Moyses but off the people also as appeareth in the 22. verse and in the booke off numbers where the lorde doothe not onely attribute this sendinge off spies vnto Moises but vnto the people Moyses gaue no further authoritie vnto them then they whiche in ecclesiasticall elections ordeine those whiche were chosen before and confirme the elections whiche are made Therfore as those ordinations exclude not the authoritie off election so this confirmation off Moyses did not deuoure that powre off election whiche he had gyued them but theyr elections and his confirmation made vp a full creation of those gouernours Towchinge the false accusation off pushing at the magistrate I haue answered Those verses off the 22. and 23. off the 25. Actes whiche yow alledge shewe who bore the swate in the makinge of that decree But yet in that the letters were written in the churches and not onely in the Apostels and Elders names and for that the decree is ascribed vnto them by whome the letters are subscribed yt is manifeste that that consente and subscription off the people occupied some rowme in that decree Nether is that alledged owte of M. Calu. any thinge againste that I saied that the people had to doo in yt and gaue consent but giueth asmuch to the church as I in saying the churche committed the matter vnto the decision of the Apostels
much more owghte the bishops election which hath so manie bankes both off ignorance and euill conscience to put him from the waie of a good election be susteined by the iudgement off others And yt ys vntrwe that it is plaine that the church was heere shut forth For althowgh yt was nether in the ministers powre nor the peoples to chaunge this election yet the faste there mentioned beinge generall and the accoumpte off their embassage and successe therof beinge afterwarde made vnto the churche yt is not vnlike but in the approbation which that election coulde admit the church also had her parte That which is heere added owte off Beza vvhich the D. woulde haue so diligently noted is but to vvaste paper For vvee holde that it is moste conueniente the people shoulde haue the ministers and elders goe before and directe them in their elections But yt is moste directly againste the D. For therby appeareth that Beza is off that minde that althowgh the people be ignorant and vntractable yet they owght not to be cut of from ecclesiasticall electiōs but directed and called to some moderation Off that which remaineth in this diuision the canons called the Apostels that off Antioche Eusebius and others which speake off ordeining make nothing to this question which is off election consideringe that yt hath bene shewed not onely that ordinacion differeth from election but also that the councells from time to time haue confirmed the election by the churches So that iff there haue bene any elections made by the Bishopes alone they haue bene directly contrary to the tenure of the councelles In the councell off Nice althowgh his boldnes be greater then in the other canons hauing chaunged the wordes off the councell and in steede off ordinacion put election yet hath he no more warrant off the wordes off that canon then off the others And albeit the generall answer is more then sufficient to resiste suche naked assertions yet euen in this councell it is manifestly to beshewed that that canō is to be vnderstāded of ordinacion as it is distinguished from election For in the letters which the Synode off Constantinople wrote vnto the councell holden at Rome yt is thus written Touching the care off the gouernement off euery church yovv knovv that the oulde decree and appointement of the fathers off the Nicene councell hath preuailed from time to time that the inhabitants in euery prouince taking to them if they vvill and if yt be profitable those vvhich are next adioining should make the elections According to the tenure vvherof vnderstand yovv that the residue of the churches vvith vs are gouerned VVherupon vve haue in our generall councell set our bishopp off Constantinople Nectarius in the sight off the Emperour Theodosius and clergy off that citie the vvhole citie giuing theyr voices therunto And so goeth forward with the election off the bishop off Antioche and confirmacion off the bishop off Ierusalem Where yt appeareth manifestly not onely that the ordinacion gyuen by that canon to the bishop did not shut owt the election off the people but that yt implied necessarily an election by the people and clergy ioined with yt For the Synode saith that those elections vvhich vvere made by consent of the church vvere made according to the decree off the Nicene councell And if it should be as the D. pretendeth that the councell off Nice ment to gyue the whole interest off election vnto the bishops and to take yt from the church then coulde not that councell haue saied that they made the Nicene councell the squire off their elections when they admitted the suffrages off the people And that there be no doubt heroff I will set downe the wordes off the councell off Nice which are these Let the people chuse and the bishop approue and seale vp the election vvith them For Gratians distincions vvith his glosse first them selues gyue me defense enough against all the force wherwith they assaile this cause as when he saith that the other priestes vnder degree off a bishop may be ordeined off their ovvne bishop so that both the citisens and the rest off the priestes gyue their assent And the glosse vpon the second canon off that distinction saying the Bishop alone may gyue the degree vnto priestes addeth alone that is to say vvithovvt other bishopps Then I coulde oppose the authoritie off Illyricus which sheweth plainly that the wordes cited owt off the 63. distinction by the D. be a mere lie off Gratian. Howbeit I will not gyue ether Gratian or his glosse that honour as once to vouchesafe hym off any answer in the church of god And that thow maiest know good reader what maner of man he was of vvhom the D. plunged seeketh helpe vvith commendation also of his interpretation euen where it is condemned off protestantes writers off our time as heere thow seest and further shall appeare I will in a word aduertise the. That whether he vvere the brother off Lombard tharchepiller of Antichristes seat borne with a third brother of a strompet as they write vvhich couer the shame of his birth or Lombardes bastard conceined by a Nun which by reuelation accompanied her selfe vvith Lombard vvhether so euer I saie he vvere off thes this is certeine that in gatheringe the canons off the councelles he endeuored by mighte and maine to make them agree vvith the Patrone off the adulterous church off Rome Therfore in goynge aboute to reconcile thee gouernemente off the elder churches off Christe vvith that vpstarte Synagogue off Antechriste as yt vvere to make accorde between the owle and the rauen there is no kinde of false dealinge nether in addinge changinge dimynishinge false interpretinge nor other corruptions and that contrarie to the cleare lighte off wordes controrolmente off recordes extante to confute him wherin he hath not caried awaie the bel of vnshamfastnes from all that euer wrote before him or in his time Off thes corruptions there are almoste as many both vvitnesses and gath erers off our owne cotrey men and of others as haue at any time bene exercised in this fielde off confutation off the popishe religion As for his glossers as the Popes hyred seruantes such as flattered for a cruste off breade sayinge yea to his yea and nay to his nay they shall goe to gether with their maister And let euen this place of the D. befor a sey off the glosses impudencie in expounding Leos wordes For where Leo speakinge of electiō setteth forth the intereste of the churches with all thes wordes that the minister ovvghte to be chosen by the consente off the people by the voices off the people by their good vvilles and that none be ordeined vvhich they desyre not vvhich they vvishe not for vvhich they require not all thes wordes this good glosse bringeth me vnto this that the people shoulde onely gyue testimonie off his good behauiour vvhich is before confuted And if he saie here
howshoulde considering that he opposeth the gouernement off his howse to the gouernement of the church yt followeth therfore that he appointeth hym to one particular church That by this word church must be vnderstanded one of thes three significacions yt standeth vpon this grownd that in none off S. Paules other Epistles or S. Lukes writinges that word church is euer vsed otherwise and neuer signifieth the church ether off Prouince or Dioces For when the Apostles vtter the companie off belieuers in such a circuit they alwaies speake in the plurall nombre and call them the churches of such and such a place And if it can be shewed that this word is taken in them for the faithful in a whole prouince or dioces I will giue ouer the hould of this argument If as I perswade my self that can not be doon then the church assigned vnto S. Paules bishop is a particular congregacion Moreouer S. Paul writing to Tite to appoint Elders throwgh euery towne which were vnblamable addeth because a bishop must be vnblamable Wherupon ether euery towne must haue a bishop or his reason is not well knit For he should both giue his rule off one thing and his reason off an other and it should come to passe that those churches vvhich haue no bishops might lawfully haue slaunderous and spotted bishops seing his onely reason why elders of euery towne owght to be withowt reproche is because a bishop must be so Againe vvhere it is saide that Paule and Barnabas apointed by voice elders in euery churche ether beside the auncientes off the churche the Bishop was ordeined or els the famous cities of Antioche I conium and Listra in the number of those churches there mencioned receiued no bishop But the Ans him selfe affirmeth that the Apostels ordeined bishops in the principall cities and townes therfore vnder thes wordes ▪ they ordeined elders by voice in euery churche ys vnderstanded that they ordeined bishops in euery churche For S. Luke vsing the same wordes to set for the the ministerie off all other churches wherwith he settethe forthe the ministerie off those famous cities vnlesse he will denie there were Bishops there he muste off necessitie graunt that the other churches had their bishops aswell as they Laste off all vnles yt be the institution off God that euery particular congregacion shoulde haue her bishop in that largies and bountifull liberalitie of ecclesiasticall ministers which S. Paule shewethe our Sauiour Christe bestowed vppon his churche after he was ascended nothing falleth to the lot of the partilar churches But yt ys horrible iniurie vnto the liberalitie off Christe so to shutte his hande which he opened so wide therfore it muste needes be that our Sauiour Christe gaue euerie churche her Bishop as for the apostles Euāgelistes and Prophetes beside that their ministerie was not streightned vnto particuler churchs they are as before hathe bene shewed ceassed There remaine therfore of the ministeries there reckened the Pastor and Doctor wherof whether the bishop be the same with the Pastor as some thinck or whether he conteine both Pastor and Doctor as other some esteme it ys manifest that ether euery particular churche must haue a bishop ▪ or els none of those ministeries there recited For if it be saied that taking a bishop for the same vvith a Pastor the particular congregations hauing the Doctor may haue one off them althowgh they haue no bishop it is easy to answere that if the Pastor most necessarie and vvhom the churche can worst spare doo not belong the Doctor can les be thowght to apperteine to a particular church And thus far owt of the scripturs for proofe of a bishop in euery particular church yt followeth to shew the traces of this institution in the primitiue church vvhich succeded next vnto the Apostels The same the D. supposeth the true Ignatius writeth thus Euery church should haue her altar and euery churche her bishop And lest peraduenture the D. should interprete euery church euery dioces or prouince beside that I haue shewed that signification of churche was vnknowen vnto those times the autors meaning is cleare to the contrary when he saithe euery church should haue her communion table which he calleth vnproperly an altar Onles therfore the D. will say that his meaning is there should be but one cōmunion table in a whole dioces or prouince this hole is stopped vp against him And if as he would make vs belieue this was Iohn thapostles scholer then amongest the testimonies of men this may worthely beare the bell Yf not as I for my part thinck yet the later he is the longer is proued this order of hauing a bishop in euery particular congregation seing he sheweth what the face off the church was in those times when he liued Epiphanius prouing a bishop and preaching Elder to differ which cometh after to be examined saith vvhere not as the Pope and the Answ in what great cytie soeuer there vvas found any vvorthy to be bishop there a bishop vvas appointed yea and vvhere there vvas not to fournish both bishop and preaching Elder there thapostles made a bishop and left the Elder So that by his Iudgement bishops were in greater nombre then then preaching Elders That the same was also in Cyprians time shall appeare God willing in the places after to be handled owt off him From his time vnto the Councell off Nice we haue the storie of Eusebius wherin as in a glasse we may see that the churche in this point was litle altered Considering that he assigneth the bishops charge continually for any thing that ether the Ans sheweth or I can gather to one church or to the churches in one citie onely Which maie better appeare in that his bishops are so often times called the bishop off a parishe as hath bene shewed and that he confoundeth a parishe with a churche a pastor with a Bishop as shall appeare so that onles the Answ will saie that there was in those times but one parish church pastor in compas off a prouince or dioces he muste be constreined to confesse that euery particuler churche for the moste parte had a Bishop And althowgh after time of the Nicene Councell there is no dowbt but that as the Bishops had more occasions of enlarging their boundes throwghe the disordered zeale off the godlie Emperours so they let not slip those occasions yet if we consider the estate off the churche what yt was abowte 400. yeares after Chryste we shall finde that bishops were not the tenth parte so thyn sowen as ours be now If a bishop ranne in to any slaunder and the slaunder pressing him he coulde not assemble a greate nomber of bishops to the ende he shoulde not remaine in that slaunder the Councell off Carthage was off aduise that his cause shoulde be hearde off twelue bishops and his owne bishop And an other that if an elder were accused he might call 6. bishops frō
and Doctors as thowghe it belōged vnto the churche and the churche had put yt ouer vnto them Yt is enoughe for me that the churches subscription was there and that not for a cyphre Therfore althowghe S. Luke for shortnes sake did call yt the decree off the Apostels and Elders yet S. Paule whiche gaue them to the churches and whiche in other places standeth so muche vppon the authoritie off the churches to stoppe the mowthe off the contentious did not by all likelihood omyt the authoritie off the churche to gyue them the more grace withe the churches vnto the whiche he delyuered them The Ans whiche will proue nothinge him selfe but off whome wee muste take all moste althinges at his bare worde hathe notwithstandinge a great grace in settinge me to proue all thinges be they neuer so manifeste Let him then vnderstande that this whiche he requirethe profe off is confirmed by the authoritie off maister Cal. and maister Bulling The manner off speache also is in Liuy where the consul is sayed to set vp an other consul into the place off him whiche was dead when he did yt not by his owne authoritie onely but by voices off the Senate and people Yf the Answ coulde haue firste gyuen his reader a drinke off the riuer off forgetfulnes to haue made him forgette what he owghte to proue peraduenture this talke off his mighte haue some ende but iff he carie in minde that he hathe to proue that almoste al ecclesiasticall writers doo affirme the word liftihg vp of handes to be vsed in the scriptures for the solemne manner off ordeining ministers by imposition off handes and not for the election by voices I say iff he cary this in minde he shall perceiue easely howe idle for the moste parte this talke is And verily all thes authorities here browghte are either vaine or directly againste him selffe or in sufficient to proue that whiche he vndertaketh For to what pourpose are here alledged two places owte off maister Caluin two Canons gyuē to the Apostels and the Testimonie off Ierome They proue that lftiing vp off handes is taken in ecclesiasticall writers for imposition off handes whiche is confessed by me in plaine wordes But to the perfourmance off your promise that almoste all the ecclesiasticall writers affirme that this worde is so taken in scripture yet there is not one syllable In this rancke also off idle testimonies is that whole section off maister Gualter For I confessed him to thincke that the word was so taken but yet so that withall he ioyneth the election off the people by voices Whiche the Answ woulde by that signification off the worde ouerthrowe So that all thes browght in off the D. looke another waie then he woulde haue them That the Canons attributed vnto the Apostels make not to proue the sole election off a bishoppe shall be discussed after here it is onely sufficiente to haue shewed that they make not to proue that whiche the Ans alledged them for Wherin I meruaile also what he meaneth to aske leaue of me that yt may be as lawfull for him to vse them as it is for me as if I had vsed them otherwise thē I owght I neuer vsed them as the naturall canons of the Apostels I haue shewed that they are not nor can not be theirs but as the Canōs off other Councels where amongest the bad there are founde some good And I neuer vsed them but where I confirmed by Testimonie off the worde off God that vvhich I bringe them witnesse for Therfore this phrase beinge vsed thrise or fowre times withowte all occasion argueth hym to be a vaine trifler whiche becawse he hathe nothing to answere gyueth hym selfe the bridle to forge and surmise all maner off vntrwthes And where by this preface yt semeth the man woulde haue stricken this matter as dead as a dore naile yet hauing leaue to vse them he hathe not so muche as once come neere vnto the matter ▪ onely he hathe gained some fewe lines to encrease his confused heape The next rancke is of those whiche are not onely not profytable but directly hurtefull vnto his cause In whiche number is the witnes off Maister Bull. that vvorde vvhich signifieth lifting vp of handes is so placed that vve may vnderstande either that they vvere chosen by voice off the people or ordeined by laying on off handes especially if he had added the fowre next wordes I thinke bothe vvere doone Wherby appearethe that Maister Bullingers opinion is that bothe the churches chose by voices and the Apostels laied on their handes which directly ouerthrowethe the Answ For his answer is suche that onles the worde doo onely signifie there the ceremonie off imposition off handes and not the election by voices yt goethe to the grownd therfore Maister Bulling sayinge that boothe were doone in this place there coulde be no flatter testimonie againste hym then yt And where he cyteth Maister Bullinger that he is elected by common suffrages off the People vvhiche is chosen by the testimonie off the beste I knowe good reader thow merueileste not that it comethe owte off tyme for that is his ordenarie but doest thow not meruaile what misticall rethoricke hathe seperated so farr a sonder this sentence from the other whiche he before alledged Leue to meruaile there is no greate arte in it but there is some crafte For if thow gyue heed vnto him yt may appeare yt was onely to couer the trechery whiche he vsed in takinge bothe that whiche goethe before ād that whiche cometh after leuing quite owte those wordes by me alledged whiche stande in the myiddest off those two sentences marringe his whole marcket And becawse yt woulde haue to palpably appeared if he had doone yt in one and the same place he makethe thē to come as it were strangers owte off two seuerall countries that dwell harde together For the sentence it selfe what would he trowe yow conclude That the bishope muste haue the election yf it be not that I knowe not wherfore yt is browghte Yf he meane to vse yt therun to then muste off necessitie Maister Bullinger speake thus that he is elected by the commō suffrages off the people whiche is approued by the testimonie off the beste bishops Doe yow lawghe at thes thinges when the D. is in so good earneste Seinge he seeth that both the testimonie off the Scripture ād writers oulde and newe Papistes onely excepted gyue intereste off election vnto the people yet rather then yt shoulde fall from the bishopps he maketh a metamorphosis and change off the Bishoppes into the people The meaninge off Maister Bullinger if any coulde be so ignorāte as not to vnderstand is that the faithfull onely haue intereste in the election off the churche and that the Papistes haue not nor owghte not to haue to doo in it nether any other heretickes and scismatickes from the churche Whatsoeuer yt be yt can be by no means drawne to preiudice the
For althowghe he saie so immediatly after he addethe Excepte peraduenture nevve elders vvere appoincted to the parishes for then the multitude off the place muste namely consente And after he saith Althovvghe in the elders alvvaies the consente off the cytisens vvas required Hytherto appeareth that all the elections were made by consente off the people if otherwise by their curteousie or as maister Caluin in an other place note the negligence Where the D. addeth And some times onelie the minister did firste choose and then offer those whome he had choosen to the magistrate who ratyfied the election if he liked it if not chose other c In deede here is an election withowte the consente off the people but what is that caetera belike some straunger which perteineth not to this matter Marke then againe good reader that if this were his owne doinge there was neuer suche a clypper off koine as he of the writinges off Godly men For yt followeth euen in the same sentence wherin the whole weighte off the cause dooth consiste Then the matter vvas brovvghte to the multitude vvhich althovvghe it vvere not bouÌ„de vnto those foreiudgemeÌ„ts yet therby vvas hable to make the les tumulte or if the people did beginne that vvas onelie to knovve vvhom they did moste desyre And vvhen the peoples voices vvere hearde then in the ende the clergie chose So that nether the clerkes coulde set in the ministerie vvhoÌ„ they listed nor it vvas not necessarie to obeie the folishe desires off the people Coulde there be anie plainer wordes then that the people was not bounde by that bothe the elders and the magistrate had doone but were yet at their choise if they liked not the chosen After Maister Caluin saithe that this manner off election by the ministers magistrates and people vvas in force in pope Gregories time and like to haue continued longe after Off yowr Canons heere alledged one onely excepted which maketh nothinge for yow the reste make directly againste yow For the canon attributed to the Apostels yt is there saide that if a bishop chosen vnto a churche doo not receiue yt he shall bee seperated from the communion vntill he take yt But yf it be throvvghe the naughtines off the people vvhich vvill not receiue him then he shall remaine bishop still and the clergie shall be seperated from the coÌ„munion because they tavvght their people no better to obeie Where appearethe that the bishoppe coulde not enter onles the people were willinge And where the canoÌ„ woulde haue him bishop still yt meaneth that he should reteine the name of a bishop because he was put by withowte his faulte Whiche thinge was grauÌ„ted to Miletius to vvhoÌ„ the Councel of Nice in the Synodall Epistle gaue the naked name of a bishop In the Ancyran Councell whiche yow alledge there is the same sauinge onely that yt is more directly againste yow For there the Councell willethe the bishopp appoincted vnto a churche yf it will not receiue him to retourne vnto his olde place of eldershipp where he was before The selfe same dothe the Canon Which yow alledge owte off the Councell of Antioche confirme So that thes three Canons can tel the bishop apoincted by other bishopps off the prouince no other remedy if he be refused off the people but to quiete him selfe and retourne to his oulde place off Eldershipp And that yow maie knowe howe contrarie alwaies maister Calu. is vnto the Ans obserue that off the same Councell off Antioche and no dowbte of the same Canon whiche the D. gathereth that the churche hathe nothinge to doo in the election Maister Caluin gathereth that the Councell ordeined that none shoulde be thruste vpon the people againste their will. The 12. Canon off the Councell of Laodicea in sayinge that a bishop ovvghte not to be appoincted to the gouermente off the churche beside the iudgement off the Metropolytan and other bishopps harde by gyuethe to vnderstande that as they had a stroke in that election so ther were other that had to doo beside them For otherwise yt woulde not haue spoken so koldly off yt For it saithe not that the Metrapolitaine and other Bishoppes shoulde onely appoincte a bishoppe no not so much as that they should appoint but onely that the Bishoppe shoulde not be appointed vvithout them The 13. Canon which prouideth that it shoulde not be permitted vnto the people to make election off the minister agrethe well with the 16. Canon off the Councell off Antioche Which as it vvoulde not haue a bishopp put vppon the churches otherwise frowarde without their consente as hathe bene shewed so vvill it not that those which the churches had chosen without the iudgemen off the bishoppes rounde abowte shoulde stande in force And if either Maister Caluin or Maister Beza haue any credite vvith yow yow haue their interpretatioÌ„ that the meaninge off the Councell was not to shutte owte the consente off the church but onely to prouide that the ministers and elders shoulde haue direction as beste hable to iudge off the fitnes of him that shoulde be chosen If they haue no credit with yow yet vvhether ye wâ—lâ— or no yt may manifestly be shewed that the canons meaning was not to shutte owte the people by other Councels off Nice off Constantinople off Toled off Cartage alleadged in the former booke Wheroff some goinge before and some comminge harde after with suche cleare testimonie off the peoples consente in the electioÌ„ decleare sufficiently that the Councell of Laodicea cannot be thowghte to haue had any suche meaninge as yow suppose but that there be no coÌ„trouersie I wil add to theÌ„ the testimony off suche wherby shall appeare not onelie what the iudgmente off those Councels are but what was bothe the customeÌ„ off the churches and the iudgement off other Councels from time to tyme in this behalfe In the Councell off Paris yt was thus decreed And because in certeine thinges the oulde custome is neglected and the decrees off the Canons are broken yt is our decree that accordinge to the olde custome the Canons off the decrees be obserued Let none be ordeined bishop againste the vvill off the cytisens but he vvhom the election off the people and off the clerkes vvith moste full consente hath required Nether by the commaundement off the prince nether by any other condition let hym be thruste in againste the vvill off the Metrapolitane and other the bishoppes of the same prouince In an other Councel Let yt not be lavvfull to get any bishopricke by revvardes or by other procurement but by the vvill off the kinge accordinge to the election off the clergie and off the people as it is conteined in the auncient canons that the bishop shoulde be ordeined by consente of the clergie and of the metrapolitaÌ„ or him that he vvill appoincte together vvith the bishops of the same prouince And after Besides this accordinge as the olde canons haue decreed no bishopp maie be
gyuen vnto the people againste their vvill nether by oppression of mighty men vvhiche is detestable let the cytisens or clergie be dravven to gyue their consente And thus muche for answer to yowr Councels To fetche a commaundemente out off the booke off numbers is to fetche yt out off the higheste courte off heauen And I was not constreined vnto it for off more then halfe a score reasons brewghte whether one off them be once moued by yow I leaue it to be iudged This commaundement pinched yow so that albeit yow pretende lawghter yet I dowbte not but yt is Sardons lawghter that is to saie from the teethe owtwarde where yow saie there is no worde which signifieth an election yt is yowr olde boldnes off denying that which is as cleare as the none daies Where also yow saie that it speakinge off layinge on off handes can make nothinge for the election off the church I beseche yow syr how doo yow proue that Timothe hathe the choise of ministers ys it not by thes wordes that he is bidden not to laie on his handes and haue yow not saide that by the layinge on off handes the whole solemnitie off creatinge ministers is vnderstanded this is faste and lose and not onely as Teconius said that that vvee vvill is holie but when wee vvill and as longe as vvee vvill Belike the laying on off handes signifieth nothinge or if it doo and not the consente off the people Why doothe not the Answ tell vs what And where he goeth abowte to finde some differēce in this and that vvhich I saie off the layinge on of handes by the Eldershippe and heroff besides the peintinge off his mergente speaketh ones twise and the thirde tyme accordinge to his olde manner of repeticiōs He purposely as seemeth passeth by my answer to that obiection that not the people but certeine that is to saie the elders in the name off the people did laie on their handes as it is to bee seene in other places vvhere the gouernours in the name off all the people laie on their handes vpon the sacrifice for synne Where yow will mee to speake in good earneste If I had onely to doo vvith such a trifler I woulde either answer nothinge or els as such a one is worthie but because I haue to doo with the church off God for iudgement off the iudiciall and Ceremoniall law and for proofe off yowr vntrew dealing I refer my selffe to that I haue saide before Yff this I haue alledged off layinge on off handes vpon the ordeined bee a Ceremoniall lawe which tooke ende by the comming off our Sauiour Christe then the Apostels vvere iniurious vnto his deathe that translated that Ceremonie from the Iewes vnder the lawe into the churche vnder the Gospell Therfore in this poincte yow haue to doo with the Apostles and not with me For as vnder the lawe the gouernoures and the people consentinge into one action testified the same by layinge on off handes off the gouernours onely so vnder the Gospell the elders and people consentinge in the election off one doo testifie it by layinge on off handes off the Elders onely Where yow vvoulde proue yt abrogated because yt yt is ioined with other thinges which are abrogated I haue shewed howe that is an engyne to wreste owte off the handes off the church all the morall lawes that euer vvere vvritten Where yow saie there coulde be no election off the people in the leuytes for that God had chosen them Yow mighte haue vnderstanded that althowghe the tribe of Leuy onely were vsed to the ministerie yet all that tribe was not applied that vvaies but as many as vvere thowghte enoughe to supplie that office and those also not at all aduenture but by choise accordinge to their habilitie I feare not Maister W. the iudgemente off the greateste enemies I haue and frendes yow haue in this cause but that their owne consciences shall vvitnes vvithe mee off my faithfull alledginge off the scriptures and off yowr either notable ignorance or very euill conscience And in thes iestes off yowres and accusations off my byndinge men vnto the Ceremoniall lawe and bringinge them to Iudaisme and fetchinge off a mandatum owt off the ceremoniall lawe Were yow not a fraide by my sides to thruste thorowghe Cyprian Who fetcheth his profe for the election off the ministerie by the voice off the people owte off the booke off nombers vvhere mention is made also off the preistes garmentes vvhich vvas ceremoniall Or vvere yow not afraide thus to handle Maister Caluin His profe is fetched owt off Leuiticus vvhose speciall argumente is to handell ceremonies and mighte not I fetche a commaundement out off nombers which hath an other scope He onely vppō that it vvas cōmaunded that Moses shoulde bringe the Leuites before the congregation concluded that the peoples consente ovvghte to be had in the ministers choyse and was yt not lawfull for me hauinge the same grounde and further also the comaundement that the people shoulde laie on their handes to conclude as muche He toke his place from thence where nether in the chapiters before nor in that owte of the vvhich he fetcheth this there is any thinge but ceremonial And was it not lawful for me to take this sentence becawse other thinges in this chap. vvere ceremoniall but that I muste needes be thus iested on and my discretion so greatly required in handlinge the scripture Therfore I saie that I citing this place am no more Iewish then the Apostels then Cyprian then Caluin Where I alledged for the establishing off that vvhich he calleth a mandatum owt off the ceremoniall law that the grovvnd of childrens baptisme standeth vpon the ceremony off Circumcision He answering that circumcision was a figure off baptisme but that the Leuiticall priesthood was no figure off the Ministery off the Gospell is deceiued For certein thinges in the Ministrie off the lawe were figures off thinges in the Ministrie off the Gospell as their anointinge signified that none maie bee admitted vnto the ministerie off the Gospell but those which haue giftes meete for that purpose as our Sauiour Christe him selffe owte off Esai expoundeth yt Euen their sacrifices vvhich off all other thinges are furthest from the ministrie of the gospell shadowed out the mortyfyinge off synne by the sworde off the worde off God that the mynisters mighte offer the people vnto God an acceptable sacrifice throwgh Iesus Christe as appeareth by Saincte Paule And the lawes off the leuiticall priesthoode are not onely figures off our ministerie but often times also rules to directe yt by therfore as off that Aaron toke not vppon hym the preisthood before he vvas called off God the vvriter vnto the Hebrewes concluded the callinge off our Sauiour Christe to his preisthood so farre different from the preisthood off Aaron so wee conclude that no man maie put his foote into the ministrie oneles he bee called Thes argumentes
therfore euery thinge that liueth is a man And I woulde gladly vnderstand by what maisters off our tounge yow can proue that thes two wordes to appoincte and to ordeine differ Iff they be all one why seeke yow aduantage in the one which you can not finde in the other But if it be absurde to saie that ordeininge is nothinge els but to call to chuse and to appoincte yt is as absurde that to appoincte is nothinge els but to call to chuse and to ordeine I am well contente yow expounde the place vnto Timothe off puttinge on of handes by that vnto Titus of appoincting towne by towne For I dowbte not but that which the eldershippe doth or one in the name off the eldershippe after the electioÌ„ is therfore called appointinge or ordeininge to the ministerie because yt is a solemne inuestinge and puttinge him in possession off that wherunto he was before chosen Althowghe Cal. be directly against him in this question whose iudgement is that yt doth nether belonge vnto the bishoppe to choose him selfe alone nor yet to ordeine by him selfe alone yet to helpe to ouerthrowe the right signification of Presbytery he is contente to folowe him at the leste dowting leauinge so many bothe olde and newe which all take that worde for a companie off those which gouerne the churche And it is certeine that those formes off nownes are vsed to signifie ether a societie or els the place where a societie meeteth And Caluine him selffe interpretinge that place where he had better occasion to coÌ„sider of it semeth to haue retracted his iudgement for thus he writeth They vvhich doo here take this vvord presbytery for a novvne collectiue and for the colledge of elders in my iudgement thincke vvell Althovvghe all thinges consydered I graunte an other sense vvill not euill agree that is that yt be the name off the offyce Yff those wordes as I appoincted the be referred as yowr learned interpreters will haue them by laying on off handes and praier they helpe yow nothinge And therfore I will not striue abowte yt Where yow saie Musculus meaninge is not much otherwise meaninge therby to conclude that he mente not to barr Timothe and Titus off their sole election let his wordes then be iudge Hauinge shewed howe Mathias and the Deacons were chosen by the church he saith there is no doubte but the Apostles kepte that maner of ordeininge and alledginge the example of the election off the 14. off the Actes headdeth therfore after fastinge and prayinge vvhich vvas vvonte to be doone in the congregation off the faithfull they ordeined elders vvhich vvere firste chosen of the faithfull And this forme off electinge and ordeininge elders and bishoppes the Apostle commended vnto his fellovve vvorkman Titus and Timothe sayinge for this cause I lefte the at Crete c. for vvho vvoulde beleue that he ordeined that Titus shoulde doo othervvise then both he and the rest off the Apostles vvere accoustomed to doo And althowghe thes wordes declare so plainly that Titus and Timothe chose not them selues alone but by consente off the churches as more fuller coulde hardly be deuised yet to put all owt off dowbte that he mente that Timothe and Titus conformed themselues to the examples off the Apostles in the churches election ioined together with theirs he doth immediatly add this conclusion Therfore bothe by the example and ordinance off the Apostle in the primitiue churche elders pastors bishoppes and Deacons vvere in the Ecclesiasticall meetinges chosen off the people by lifting vpp off handes Where the reader maie consyder what trwth he hath to loke for at the D. handes which denieth thinges that haue so manifeste and so easie confutation And where he saith that herin althowghe he hath lefte Caluin yet he hath folowed the iudgement of other learned men he maie see that he hath not lefte Caluin onely but Muscul Bulling and Zuing. As for his learned men I thinke verely that Pighius Hosius and others off that stampe excepted he is not hable to alledge one to confirme that Titus and Timothe had onely the election off the ministers For those alledged to proue that Timothe and Titus did ordeine are nothinge to the purpose considering no man denieth that but that they ordeined alone was to be shewed And â—â— he had shewed that they alone ordeined which he shall neuer doo yet is not the election off the people therby shut owte forsomuche as election and ordination are seuerall thinges What ether godlines or honesty is in him which dare so bare faced denie thinges so openly vntrwe I will leaue to bee iudged of that which is saide towching that the election doth not belonge vnto the bishoppe alone but vnto the church Here I will shewe that not so much as the ordination can by the testimonie of thauncient fathers or councelles agree vnto one bishop onely which is another poinct that he would haue the reader beleue and therfore owght ether to haue shewed yt or els to haue holdeÌ„ his peace seing none euer denied that the bishop hath to doo in the ordinacion Firste yt appeareth in Cyprian that both in the prouince where he was and in all other prouincs almost the nexte bishopps off that place where ther was a minister to be chosen came to ordeine hym whom the people chose The great councell off Nice decreed that he shoulde be ordeined off all the bishopps off the prouince at the leaste of three Moreouer August sheweth that when the Donatistes accused Cycilian for that beinge cheife bishop off the Prouince off Carthage he waited not to bee ordeined off the cheife bishoppe off Numidia the Catholikes did answer that it was the coustome of the Catholike church that the bishop of Num. should not ordeine the bishop of Carthage but the bishops which were next And in an other place of the same booke he sheweth that yt was the coustome that 12. bishoppes shoulde be at the ordination off him which was chosen bishop and pastor off any church Which appeareth in the same booke to haue bene obserued in the ordination off Cycilian And that yt may appeare that this was by continuall consente and Harmonie off Councells decreed againste the ordination by one bishoppe that one place off Theodoret iff there were no more mighte suffice where he saith that Euagrius came to the office off a bishoppe vnlawfully because onely Paulinus ordeined him contrary to the tenure off manie canons which prouided that they shoulde not be ordeined but by all the bishoppes off the prouince or at the leaste by three Thus yt appeareth that by all antiquitie not onely the election made by one bishope alone but the ordinacion also is flatly condemned as vnlawfull and contrarie to the coustome of the Catholike churche and olde Councelles â–ª wherby is manifest how vaine yt is which is cited owt off Caluin and others to proue that because the Metrapolitane ordeined therfore he ordeined alone Yow answer not
great triumphes of For the first off the places it appeareth how Chrysost there called Iohn elder of the church of Antioche was chosen bishop of Constantinople by cōmē voice of all both people and clergy and how he had his election ratified by the Emperour Arcadius For the seuēth booke yt appeareth that Chrysanthus was chosen bishop off Costantinople by the people And when as Sabbatius because Chrysanthus hid himself and would haue none off the bishopricke gat certeine bishops to ordeine him into yt the story sheweth how the people sowght Chrysanthus owt and put owt Sabbatius diuers other exāples there be which I leaue as I would also haue doon thes if it had not bene to haue shewed the vaine triumphes off the D. And where he saith that there is nothing in those 6. and 7. of Euseb which maketh mentiō of any electiō by the people but in one onely which he goeth about to wipe a way that thow maiest know the D. changeth not his skin I will note them in a word To leaue therfore the election made by reuelation where he saith the election was made by the ministers and pastors yt is manifest that the churches had to doo in the electiōs For in the indorcemēt of the letters wherby an other was appointed at Antioche into Samosatenus roume as well autority off the churches is pretended as off the bishops elders and deacons Where also he would clude the other place firste because it was a miracle then for that by the word brethren it is not certeine whether the people were noted for the first yt may appeare how vaine yt is seing the story saith the brethren came together to chuse a bishop The miracle therfore which came vnloked for off them and after they were assembled was to direct them in their election and not to authorise them to chuse For autority they had before els they would not haue come together for that purpose As for the other it is a boldnes too insufferable withowt shewing any one exāple and contrary both vnto the phrase off the scripture and aucient fathers shewed in my former booke and off Eusebius him self as may appeare diuers times in some one chapter In all thes sentences set downe owte of Euseb there is not a worde for the D. nor againste vs The D. cōsesseth that Origine tawght beinge a laie man in the church publikely he can not denie if he woulde but that he tawght by the appointment off bishoppes Thes two beinge put what followeth but that in those daies he was counted a laie man which toke vppon him the ministerie vppon the bishoppes appoinctinge onelye And that he abuse not his reader with such rouinge treatises my reson I will set downe in a fewe wordes That appointement vnto the ministrie which was thowght not to inhable to be minister was thowght insufficient but the appointement off the bishops onely was thowght not to inhable to be minister for Origene that had that appoinctement and authoritie vvas still coumpted a laie man therfore that authoritie onely was then thowght insufficient Eusebius therfore giuinge me this houlde which the D. is driuen vvhether he will or no to confesse ▪ there is wherwith to vpholde that I haue saide For if the bishops appointment off Origine to preach did not gyue him any degree in the ministrie for what cawse did it not except yt be it at I haue assigned his trāslatiō of Euse words whē he was yet not ordeined minister wherin another point off this matter standeth is not warrāted For by this means he must take one of his wordes which properly signifieth the choise by lifting vp and vsed sometimes of eccesiasticall writers for laying on of hands for a degree which hathe no example Likewise he must take the other vvhich I haue shewed to signifie the company of all the gouernours off the church for the office off one onely elder which wanteth proofe Beside that Muscul which translateth yt semeth to haue folowed the sence I haue where if he had folowed the D. he would haue doone otherwise For in steed of he had not appoinctmēt of the eldership he would haue saied the degree of an elder Where he alledgeth that Demetrius suffred hym to teach at Alexandria when he was a laie man belike therby to proue that the reprehension of Demetrius was not to be regarded which did himselfe that he found faulte with in other yt maketh nothinge to this question For yt is enowghe to that in hande that yt is confessed bothe by Demetrius and Eusebius Which taketh the defense off those whom Demetrius rebuked that Origene was a laie man althowghe appoincted to the preachinge off the vvorde by the Bishops Whether yt be lawfull for a laie man to teache the worde off God in publike place is an other question The nexte sect I leaue to the iudgmente of the reader Of this greate heape which foloweth the moste parte haue bene broughte before some foure times at the leaste they haue bene thresshed and there is no yelde it shal be seen that the rest are no better then their fellowes the places off scripture alledged heere are all answered sauing onely that of the Actes 13. which is borrowed of Hosius who vseth this place againste the choise by the church For answer wherunto I saie that it is nor question there off such election as wee spake off that beinge the election off God and not off the church I for my parte rather thinke that it was the voice off God by the Prophetes or one off the prophetes and for proofe alledge the storie in the Crome which may be cōmētary to this For as the church thē in distresse by publike praier and faste receiued comforte throwghe a Prophet whom the Lorde sodenly in the myddeste off the congregation raised amongeste them euen so the church off Antioche beinge in great distresse and feare off ruine off the church off God partly by the sworde and famine partly by contentions and serchinge remedy by puhlike praier and faste receiued by a Prophet which the lord stirred vpp amongeste them this oracle wherby he shewed them a singular meanes not onely to mainteine but to amplifie the borders off the kingdome off Christe If the S. will not receiue this interpretation but take the holy gost to haue sounded immediatly from heauen yet it helpeth him nothing there was no place lefte for any election but needes muste Paule and Bar. besent Iff therfore the bishop haue the spirite off prophecie at any time wherby he may haue such a certeine and vnfallible direction as this was wee will les sticke with him for his sole election Iff not yt is in vaine to alledge this example sauinge that it maketh much againste him For if the lorde woulde haue the approbation off the whole companie of Doctors and elders in that election vvhich him selfe had made and vvhere there was no daunger off error howe
may better appeare for that in other places where S. Paul deuideth the whole mynistrie of the churche the ministrie off the word which he vttered here by the word off Prophecie he there attributeth not vnto Prophetes but vnto Bishops And when as the prophecie which the D. phansieth is a simple Ministrie off the church that Prophecie mencioned there being compounded muste needes be diuers Likewise that a Prophet to the Corin. is taken generally for any which instructeth with any word off exhortation yt is apparant both by that S. Paul attributeth prophecying to all which haue any gift off teaching and in that he doth so often oppose it to the fruteles speaking in a straunge toung amongest the assembly of the faithfull His testimonies out off writers remaine wherein amongest the auncient he hath onely a counterfeit sentence off Ambrose as I haue before declared which as yt ys full of confusion and disorder so yt maketh nothing for the D. for if Apostels be bishops and Euangelistes and Euangelistes be Deacons c. what maketh that to proue that there are beside the bishops and Deacons seuerall functions of Apostels and Euangelistes which is the question But how this fable is beaten down by all auncient antiquitie that may be a sufficient argument that the auncient writers in great consent speake off the whole ministrie off the church as deuided into thes three orders Bishops Elders and Deacons After that other ministries entred as doorkepers subdeacons c. yet there were none but such lightheaded spirits as I haue before spoken off that durst peint out any their mynysteries with the names off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes For the new writers that the D. if his forhead be not of yron may learn to blush I will towch their Iudgment onely which he hath alledged for him self Maister Caluin diuiding the mynistrie off the word into Apostels Prophetes Euangelistes Pastors and Doctors affirmeth that the tvvo last onely that is to say Pastors and Doctors are ordinary Bucer likewise deuiding them into perpetuall and for a tyme affyrmeth that these perteine vnto thestate off the former church and correcteth the D. Ambrose for appliyng them to his times by the true Ambroses sentence to the contrary in the fyrst of his Offic. Peter Martyr vsing the same diuision sheweth that the function off Apost and Prophets are not in vse and that the ministrye of Prophets is not onely expyred in respect of telling thinges to come but also for the manner off interpreting the scripture That he speaketh not the same off the Euangelist was for that the Apostle maketh no mention off him in that place Musculus deuideth the mynisteries off the vvord into those vvhich serued for the beginning off the gospell as Apost Euang. Proph. and those vvhich cōtinue for euer as Pastors Doctors Elders Bishops Bullinger saith the office off Apostleship Prophetship and Euangelistship were instituted off the Lord for a tyme and that thes many ages euen synce the foundacion off the kingedome off Christ both Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes are ceassed into vvhose place are come bishops Pastors Doctors and Elders Last off all the confession off the churches hauing spoken off all mynisteries off the word mencioned off the Apostel concludeth that off all those now it is lawfull to esteeme mynistries off the churche Bishops Elders Pastors and Doctors Thes autors affirming that thes mynistries be extraordinary that they were for a time that other are come into their places the reader may see how the D. dealeth with him Let yt now be noted how he hath haled thes sentences taken from them Out off Maister Caluin he alledgeth that God hath stirred vp Apostels or Euangelistes synce the time of the primitiue churche and hath doone so at this tyme. Within a lyne after he addeth yet I call that extraordinary because in churchs vvell dressed it hath no place Of the like sort yt ys that he alledgeth owt off my booke whereas vpon Maister Caluin so of my wordes which affirme that God hath raised vp sometimes Euangelistes immediatly by his spirit vvithout any calling off men he woulde conclude that the office is ordinary and perpetuall then which bouldnes what can be greater Out of Bucer he alledgeth that there be now Euāgelists Where if his maner of speach that there are found Euangelists could not yet that which he addeth that God doth it by merueilous meanes ought to haue kept him from that allegacion except he thinck that a miraculous calling be perpetuall and ordinary Out of the Confess is brought that thes offices off Apostles c. are mynistries off the new Testament els should they haue great iniury seing they were both in tyme and dignitie first but who the D. set a part would euer conclude therof that they are perpetuall ministeries especially considering it addeth immediatly in plaine wordes that the Apostles are ceased and Pastors come into their places which could not be yf it had any such meaning as the D. phansieth Where it saith that there are yet Prophetes yf that were not which I alledged out of it towhing the shutting owt of those three ministeries from them which are now in vse yet the manner off speaking there are yet found the same with that of Bucer before alledged declareth that they ment therby an extraordinary calling For so we vse to speak of thinges rare and not in commen vse Last off all where yt is alledged owt off Bullinger that the wordes mentioned to the Ephe. are confounded yt doth not make for him but is answer both against the most places brought to proue Timothe a bishop and against those which he hath cited in the 3. and 4. Diuision off this chap. for if those ministries being separate one from an other their names notwithstanding be confounded yt muste follow that not euery one which is called an Apostle or bishop c. hath that function which is by some proprietie seuered from other and which the Apostle mēt to the Eph. for where one man being an Apostle is sometimes called a Prophet Bishop Doctor Elder and Deacon yf he will say that because he is called by thes titles he did therefore all those functions proper vnto those mynistries beside thabsurdities before shewed the vntruth doth manifestly appeare in the office off disposing off the churches money Whereoff the Apostles discharging them selues ceassed not therefore sometime to be called by the same name off Deacons And to vse those authorities which he hath brought Ierom calleth I say the Prophet both Euangelist and Apostel Yet I think the D. doth not esteme Ierom to haue had so litle iudgement as to think that he was ether off them in that signification they are taken of Saint Paul. likewise where he hath cited out off Caluin that Timothe was a Pastor when Caluin calleth him also an excellent Doctor and maketh that a seuerall function from the Pastor yt is cleare that he spake not off
which the Ans hathe alledged yf yt be weighed dothe sufficiently declare how farre Dionysius was front that antoritie euer the churches off Pentapolis which he imagineth For there ys shewed bow when he vnderstoode off certeine bishops there leauened with the heresie of Sabellius he sente messengers to them to call them backe from their heresie And when they wente yet forwarde more impudently what iurisdiction doothe he exercise againste them doothe he cause them to appeare before him send owt the sentence off excōmunication remoue them from their charges suspende them at the leaste vntill some triall off their amendement none off all thes but saith he vvas by this stubbernes off theirs compelled to vvrite againste them And yet if Dionysius might haue vsed this autoritie he woulde no dowbte and if he had Athanasius would by no meanes haue let it passe For if he could haue alledged that Dionysius had ether deposed suspended or excommunicated those Sabellian bishops yt had bene a singular meanes to haue stopped the mouthe off the Arrians which woulde haue borne men in hande that Dionysius fauored Sabellius heresie and consequently also theirs And towching the gouernement off his owne churche in Alexandria how farre yt was from that lordlie dominion the bishops and archbishop vse now maie appeare in that he calleth the elders off the churche off Alexandria his felovv elders After folowethe one Gregory which he auoucheth owte of Euseb 7. li. 24. to haue gouerned all the churches throwghe Pontus firste this word all is not founde there Secondly yt is vtterly vntrue that he saith he gouerned all the churches For Eusebius ioineth Athenodorus with him as his matche in all pointes So that if there were any archbishop there it was two headed contrary to the archbishops institution supposed of his patrons Thirdly yt appeareth in an other place where Eusebius speaketh of them againe that they were not bishops off all the churches of Pontus but had onely their parishes or churches in Pontus And the cause why Euseb made mention of those onely was as is there apparant because they were the moste famous amongeste the Bishopes in those partes and therfore by all likelihood chosen owte off the reste were sent vnto the Councell off Antioche gathered against the heresie of Sabellius Therforè he which is saide off the D. to haue bene ruler off all the churches off Pontus is founde to haue but one onely parishe in that circuite Peter Bishop off Alexandria foloweth which hauing regarde vnto the time wherin he died was onely aboute eight yeares before the Councell off Nice So that the Answ in saying he was 20. yeares before must be vnderstāded of the tyme he entred into his bishoprick Of him Epiphanius saithe he had the administracion of all the churches of Aegypte was archbishop What manner off archbishoprick and gouernement this was may be gathered by that that Epiphanius saithe Miletius vvas archbishop likevvise and had the gouernement together vvith him And not that onely but that Miletius occupied the seconde place in the archbishopricke vvith Peter Wherby Epiphanius gyueth to vnderstande that there was the third and fourth and consequently as many archbishops as there were bishops off name and estimacion amongest them which beside their owne procured the good off other churches rounde aboute This is further confirmed in that Epiphanius as rendring the cause why he calleth Miletius Archbishop and to haue the seconde place after Peter saithe Miletius seemed to excell the other bishops in Aegypte And where yt is saide that Miletius vvas vnder peter yt is to be vnderstanded that he was vnder him in honor and not subiecte vnto him as vnto a commaunder or as to one which had dominion ouer him as yt shall appeare by the Councell off Nice after and as the discourse of Epiphanius storie plainely shewethe For where as betwene Peter and his adherentes off the one parte and Meletius and his felowes off the other being shut in in prison for testimonie off the trwthe there fell a controuersie abowte receiuing those which had fallen in time off persequution Peter as Epiphanius reporteth desired and made supplication vnto Miletius and the rest saying let vs receiue them and appoint them a penance And when he coulde not gaine his cawse by praier and supplication he spred owte a vaile in the middaste off the prison and proclaimed by a deacon that as manie as vvere off his syde ▪ shoulde come vnto him and those vvhich vvere off Melitius parte shoulde goe to him Wherupon a fevv ioined them selfes vnto him the greater nomber remaining vvhith Melitius In which counte off Epiphanius there is nether any autoritie or dominion pretended by Peter ouer the reste nor any subiection acknowledged off the other but there is to be seene contrariwise all felowlike behauiour of one towardes an other And onles this be the propertie of an Archbishop to be autor off a horrible schisme and rente in the churche whereas yt ys vaunted off him that he compoundeth schismes made by other ther appeareth nothing in Peter in that whole action Archbishoplike If the Answ say the prison was no place where he could exercise his archiepiscopall autoritie the replie is easie that he might as well exercise yt there as owt off prison For yt being a time off persequution he coulde vse no where any other constreint then by the ecclesiasticall censures and those hauing as appeareth a company with him in prison he might as well vse there as being at libertie Hitherto I trust hath appeared that there hath bene not so much as any footing or kold sent ether off archbishop or metropolitan suche as ours yt followeth to examin that owt off the Nicene Councell which bringeth the first tydinges of the Metropolitanes Where we hauing confessed that there were Metropolitanes denied that they vvere like ours how truly resteth to be considered First that which the Answ can most pretend owt off this Councell for iurisdiction off Metropolitanes ouer Bishops off the same Prouince is the bishop off Alexandria ovvght to haue povver ouer the bishops in Egypt Lybia and Pentapolis Thes are the sounding wordes and which carie the greatest noyse off Metropolitane autoritie Yf therfore it fall owt that thes wordes to haue power bring more shew in the eie then weight in the balance then the Answ is greatly fallen from his hope which thincketh to reape of this peace dominion off the Metropolitan ouer other bishops The wordes which the D. turneth to haue gouernement signifie in that place nothing but to g haue cheif dignitie or honour Which is apparant for that the same thing being attributed vnto Rome Antioch and other metropolitane churches is vttered by the word honorable revvard the same that dignitie in the next canon where be speaketh off the bishop off Ierusalem as it is also noted off Villerius where he confirmeth this signification off the word preeminence owt off Plato This may be further vnderstanded
As thowgh if the matter had bene committed to S. Paul onely it should not haue bene with the same bond off keping him to the word yet yt was not so committed as I haue alledged And if he think more succour for him in the wordes he vsed the archbishop must determin according to the rule of the church it is certein also that the companie of Apostles and Elders in Ierusalem and what companie soeuer meeteth together abowt the ending of such matters is subiect vnto all lawful and commendable orders off the churche prouided for the more orderly proceding in that behalf So that there being nothing here alledged by the D. which agreeth not vnto the Apostles and Angels themselues the excessiue autoritie off tharchbishop doth still appeare in that he alone endeth controuersies which in the Apostolike church was not committed but vnto many For as for that in the next diuis he compoundeth not controuersies by him self alone onles he meane that he hath his seruantes the Chaunceler and Archdeacon or some other off his owne châ—â—sâ— â–ª the booke set owt by tharchbishop of late doth declare the coÌ„trary and the experience off his visitacions and deposing off ministers doth openly conuince him of vntruth If he say he is not alone he hath them following him he must vnderstaÌ„d that becawse ether the archbishop carieth their voices vnder his girdell or yf they vse the freedome which is meet yet the approbacion dependeth vpon the archbishops beck he can no more account them to be diuers then a maÌ„ and his shadow following him And where in his former booke he saith the cheif office off an archbishop is to compound contentions schismes c. here being put to his shift he changeth his speach saying it is his principall office to prouide that contentions c. be cut of Where he addeth or els with the Princes consent he setteth an order in a prouinciall Synode If there be any Synode ether to take the iudgement owt off his hand or controll the sentence gyuen by him it is like to be sore against his will. So that the remedy off this mischief dependeth onely vpon the Cyuill power which if ether yt be ennemy to religion or entangled with the present heresie as hath and may herafter come to passe the churche being withowt remedy must languish and pyne away He saith this example of the matter caried to Ierusalem proueth that euery parish within yt self hath no absolute autoritie to end controuersies but it behoueth to resort vnto the cheif church the contrary wherof appeareth For in that they both debated the cawse amongest them selues and when they coulde not agree decreed to send yt to Ierusalem yt ys sufficiently declared that they had autoritie to end it amongeste them and that yt was not wrunge from them by necessitie off law or pretence off higher autoritie but voluntarily sent vp to Ierusalem Althowgh for this place in hand yt ys sufficient that the deciding off controuersies hung not vppon the mouth off one man were he neuer so sufficient but were referred vnto thassemblies of the Auncients and ministers of the word As for his olde shiftes of the weaknes of negatiue argumentes of autoritie and of examples of the scripture and thapostolike church their folie is opened before Here he taketh on against my vnskilfulnes in the scriptures which referred that vnto ministers which is spoken off all the church Howbeit if he had coÌ„ferred the text he should haue found that thapostle speaketh of the Prophe thes and not of the whole church For he biddeth that tvvo or three of the Prophetes should speake and the other that is to say Prophetes should gyue iudgement Which appeareth by the reasoÌ„ added the sprite off the Prophetes is subiect to the Prophetes Therfore the D. corrupteth the place and the argument to proue that not one minster but many owght to determin of doutfull causes is vntowched Where I pressed him with this that vnitie is fully mainteined by the ministeries vvhich God hath ordeined â–ª he asketh how oft I will alledge it Yf it be a fault in me to alledge one place often vpon diuers occasions what is it in him to alledge one thing so continually vppon the same occasion If he would haue opened his eyes he should haue seen that I vsed an argument proper to this place and not vsed before For where he pretendeth the archbishop was ordeined to kepe vnitie I shew that withowt him vnitie is perfectly kept wherunto he answereth nothing but as before But I will serue his tast and giue him change For the Apostle a litle before exhorting to vnitie bringeth also this reason one body one spirit one hope one Lord one faith one baptisme one God c. Wherby appeareth that the apostle tooke thes ones to be sufficient to kepe the people off God in vnitie And if to haue an archbishop had bene so necessary the apostle shoulde haue fowly forgotten him self hauing so fit a place to speake of him And as this is aptly opposed against the pretended peace by a Pope so is yt likewise against that surmised to be browght by the archbishop Where I ask vvhat buckler vve may haue to hould ovvt against the Papistes vvhich come vpon vs vvith the name of traditions off the apostles if vve admit that there vvere archbishops ordeined by them vvherof the scripture maketh no mention he answereth there can be no daunger in them so they be not made necessarie to saluacion but such as receiue alteracion Which althowgh it be cleane contrary to that he saide before where he bindeth vs to obseruation of them as I haue shewed yet it shall be sufficient here to let him vnderstand that he hath vtterly barred him self from this answer for that he saith this ministrie of the Archbishop is necessarie yea most necessarie Now if it be most necessarie for preseruacion of vnitie off the church yt is plaine that it is necessarie also for the saluacion of yt For the next diuis I haue shewed how absurdly the D. defendeth this rouing where let the reader iudge what difference there is betwene our archbishop and Ieromes bishop which differed nothing from a commen minister but that he had the ordeining off ministers And here I call once againe vpon him to shew any godly and learned writer which expoundeth this place of Ierome off an archbishop to see if he be any happier in this place then he was before in Cyprians The Bishop off Salisb affirmeth that the very meaning off Ierome is off euery bishop in his dioces and Harding in the end beaten downe with the light off the place is compelled to confesse it The next I leaue to the reader to iudge by that alledged on both sides The D. saith I refuse Ierome in a matter off storie yet I denie no part off his storie wherin he seemeth to haue lost all commensense For who in
base citie equall vvith the reste referreth that to the deacons vvhich in some places vvere preferred before the elders who seeth not but that speaking against the truthe he was so amazed that wordes comminge from him reason stickethe yet in his penne For what reason is there that Ierome shoulde therfore saie the bishop off Eugubium vvas equall vnto the Bishop off Rome notvvithstanding the bishop off Rome vvere his superior because the deacon vvas preferred in Rome before the elder What giue is here to ioyne thes together or what cawse was there that Ierome shoulde speake basely off the metropolitanes autoritie ouer the bishop because the deacon was preferred before the elder ys there anie reason that because the deacon did iniurie vnto the elder therfore Ierome shoulde speake sparingly of the metropolitane â—nd doo him iniurie also moreouer if this was the occasion why he spake so off a bishop because certeine deacons were preferred before the elders considering that that coustome was onely at Rome as Ierome him self declareth why should he make the bishop off Tanais a small towne in Egypte equall with the bishop off Alexandria the metropolitane citie there and the bishop Rhegium equall with the bishop off Constantinople For seing that mischeif off the preferment off Deacons before the elders was not in other places then in Rome there was no cause why he should speake thus off theÌ„ if that had bene the cause which Erasmus alledgeth Where he addeth vvhen Ierome saith the bishops and elders vvere equall that is to be vnderstanded that the elder vvas equall vvith the bishop in that they vvere bothe preferred vnto the deacon I meruaile the Ans is not ashamed to alledge that saying without all colour off truthe For I haue alledged diuers other places owte off Ierome where he speaking absolutely withoute respecte off any deacon affirmeth the bishop and elder all one in the beginning And what a ridiculous disputacion doth he make Ierome to hould For it is all one as if a maÌ„ after longe discourse to proue LondeÌ„ and Yorke equall in the ende shoulde conclude that Yorke were equall with London because they be bothe greater then Nuington Now let the reader iudge what vnworthie outcries the D. vseth bothe before and after off guilful dealing and shifting the place of Ierome therby to drowne the voice of the trwthe and whether I haue interpreted it according to his naturall meaning and as other godlie and learned haue doone and whether he contrarily to mainteine his firste saying hath vsed shiftes partely popishe ouerthrowinge the answers off those which haue trauailed againste popery aswell as mine partely fonde and childishe which he woulde beare owt with Erasmus autoritie withowt any weight off reason Likewise how he after dallieth in his longe translation and repetition of Ierome to no purpose That a doctor differeth from a pastor hathe bene shewed that he is inferior vnto him appeareth not onely because the Apostle placeth him after where he dothe moste exactly set downe the order off preaching ministers but also that the giftes required for that office are as hathe bene shewed lesse wherunto may be added the practise off the elder churches which estemed the doctor alwaies vnder him whom they called bishop or Pastor That the elder which gouerneth onely is inferior to the Doctor appeareth bothe in that his giftes be fewer and that the Apostel giueth more honour to him then to the elder That Deacons are vnder those elders for that their charge is to serue the tables onely and therfore but a part off the churche where the elders gouernemeÌ„t is ouer the whole Likewise for that the deacons charge being in thinges perteining to the nourishement off the body muste gyue place to that off the elders whose watche is ouer the sowles Al which the ministery off the Doctor onely excepted which is shut vp commoÌ„ly in the bishop is confirmed by continuall practise off the churche which vppon all occasions off speaking off this ministerie placeth the bishop before the elder and the elder before the deacon and precisely the foresaid Ignarius sheweth that the deacon is vnder the elder thelder vnder the bishop where that thelder which onely gouerneth and not onely he which teacheth is vnderstanded at which hole the D. would creepe out shall be after in proper place declared So appeareth that order in the ministery and diuersitie off degrees are defined off by the word of God and that euen in the Ecclesiasticall ministery ther is inequalitie althowgh all pastors be equall amongeste them selues and withall that order standeth withowt the archbishop or any other deuised ministery Chrysost browght by me is shamfully corrupted and the corruption opened in the former diuis his allegations there owght to be rulers in the church and order to punishe faultes so erksomly repeted are Idle yt being confessed and withall shewed that there is none off those but are doone withowt his ether bishop or Archbishop where hauing no reason he falleth to exhortacion that I would not stand in my conceite but thincke the gouernement off his bishop better then that laid forth by vs if he can compound with the word of God with the reformed churches Apostolical and present with the purest writers ould and newe I with my conceites as he speeaketh will be ready to hould tharchbishops stirup That he affirmeth the forme off gouernement wherin one is aboue all necessary in our commen wealthe althowgh I haue shewed that I greatly allow of it yet that yt is necessary and that the Prince and ParlemeÌ„t can not vpon occasion alter yt especially without breache off the lawe off God which onely maketh the necessitie vve speake of ys an vntrwth apparant to all that haue euer tasted off holy or humane letters And althowghe yt semeth he hath couenanted vvith him self to speake all he supposeth may please yet his knowledge answering not his wâ—ll he is found here to abridge the authoritie off the ciuile powre which he thowght to haue stretched owt and to binde it to that which the lord lefte at the libertie theroff Where he saithe the externall gouernement off the church vnder a Christian magistrat muste be according to the kinde and forme of gouernement vsed in the comon wealth it partly hath aÌ„d further God willing shall appeare that the gouernemeÌ„t of the church debated is certein by the vvord off God and vnchangeable As for his bolt so soone shot and with so smal drafte of reason yt is brokeÌ„ with the vvinde off his owne mouth For where he maketh the externall gouernement throwghe owte his whole booke at the pleasure of the Prince which is his principall hould here he teacheth that yt is not in the princes powre onles she will ether put of or deuide her crowne vvith others to put downe the archbishop for the externall gouernement off the church saith he muste be according to the kinde and forme off gouernement off the comon wealth
not right and yet some founde whiche either maye haue there calling according to the word off god diuerse from that which is commonly vsed or els the lawfull callinge by the church ceasing haue it by an immediate calling from god Iff M. D. will be so ignorant as not to know how these two maye stand togither let him be ignorant if he delight in his blindnes what should he doo with a guide After he saith my distinction is not good off lavvfull and ordinarie for that whatsoeuer is lawfull in a churche established the same is ordinarie and for proufe hereoff he addeth that coÌ„mon reason teacheth it but what is that common reason it had bene good yow had set it downe This is a simple confutatioÌ„ which yow vse to proue that in an established church lawfull and ordinarie are all one And iff I should replie and saye that the distinction is good and that common reason teacheth soo if I light off as fauorable a reader as yow my proufe will be as good as yours â–ª but this is but to abuse the time and to delude the world And it is the more vntollerable that yow are not contente to haue said it once withowt proufe onlesse it be also quoted in the margent as thowghe we could not withowt some great damage want this highe sayinge And wher yowe make common reason the iudge hereoff althowghe she be an euill scholemistris oftentimes in these cases yet she teacheth here plainely against yow For iff a man will consider it in naturall thinges yt is euident in the birthe off children that some thing is lawful which is not ordinarie It is nor ordinarie for a woman to bring foorthe thre or fower children at once and yet it is lawfull And if this common reason be considered also in politicall thinges there it shall appeare likewise that thinges are lawfull in a well gouerned aÌ„d established coÌ„mon wealth which are not ordinaâ—rie As if order be taken that none shal clime the walles of the citie aÌ„d the citizens climinge the wall vpon the sodeine comming off the enemie driue him backe no maÌ„ can denie but this acte is lawfull and yet it is clere that it is not ordinarie being otherwise but in suche a case as this punishable But let these goo and let vs see how this oracle agreeth withe the word off god And first iff by a churche established yow meane a church which hathe one vniforme order grounded owt off the word off god yow take that for graunted which is the controuersie for we denie that the churche off England is so established But iff yow vnderstand by a churche established a church of god vvherin vvith other thinges well donne the corruptions which are in yt are by common consent off those which rule the churche agreed vppon it is manifest that in suche a churche there hath bene a calling lawful which was not ordinarie For before the comminge off our Sauior Christ it is confessed that there was amangest the Iewes aÌ„d in IerusaleÌ„ especially a churche of god established the ordinarie ministeries off the priestes and Leuites vsed thâ— prescribed sacrifices offred the law read and taught the corruptions of the churche were not the seuerall opinions of particular persons but the vniforme decrees off those vvhich had the gouernment And yet there the lord raised vp Simeon and Iohn Baptiste whose vocations being extraordinarie were notwithstanding lawfull And that there be no hole for M. D. to hide his bouldnes off castinge forthe whatsoeuer taketh him first in the heade it is to be shewed that in the moste orderlie established churches off god and moste purelie reformed according to the worde of god there haue bene ministers lawfull and yet not ordinary In the vvildernes the churche vnder the conduite off Moses and Aaron was for the owtward face exactlie gouerned according to the rule that god had giuen theroff and yet we reade off the 72. vpon whom the spirite of Prophesie fell vvhich vvas no ordinarie calling as that vvhich endured but for a time as the wordes of the texte howsoeuer they be otherwise translated do declare which saith that they added not to prophesie anie more When was the churche better established according to the rule off the worde of god then in Dauids time and yet then besides himselffe there vvere diuerse extraordinarie ministers For there was the Prophete NathaÌ„ and Gad withe others not off the Leuiticall order whiche onelie was the ordinarie callinge off the churche In the new Testament the churche off Antioche ceased not after it was established to haue the extraordinarie function off Prophetes And onless M. D. vvill saie that all these functions were vnlawfull he must confesse that in an established churche ordinarie and lawfull are not all one And albeit in these times vvhere there is a churche established according to the vvord off god the lord dothe not vse to raise vp anie suche extraordinarie ministerie neither is it to be looked for yet yt is a thinge vvhich may come to passe and vvhiche hathe nothinge in the vvorde off god to the contrarie In steade of that yow saye Iff any church in England doo electe there minister otherwise then the lawes off the churche dothe permitt it can not be excused off schisme yow should haue said otherwise then the worde off god dothe permitte For iff it be shewed that that order established be corrupte and the other vvhiche they folowed in the calling off their minister according to the vvord of god then they neede not to be afraid off the slaunder off schisme And vvhere yovv saye suche and suche parishes muste be loked vnto verely they nede not therin be ashamed vvho looke vpon them But If eare the looke yow meane is to put owt their eye in taking awaie the Minister that they should be the lesse hable to looke vnto your vnfaith full dealing vvithe the churches off god Yow vnderstand not yow saie what I meane when I saie that the choise off the Minister by the churche is suche as the examples off the scripture do shew to haue bene before the Eldershipp and gouernment off the churche be established I know in deede these thinges before haue bene vnhearde off by yow whose ignorance the churche must rue And now when yow are tolde it in so plaine wordes as I nothinge dowbte but a childe off nine yeres oulde dothe vnderstand yt yow can not yet comprehende it Yt was the practise off the Pharises against our Sauior Christe when they had nothing to answere to charge him that he spake not plainlie but propounded thinges dowbtfully that men coulde not tell where to haue him For they come vnto him and saye how longe doest thow holde vs in suspence Iff thow be Christ tell vs plainlie as thowghe he had not tolde them plainlie before This Pharisaicall practise the D. vseth against me diuerse times gropinge at noone dayes and complaining that I am not plaine and open enoughe and going
to the bishoppes alone is made off custome that is twise a yeare at the least iff any come at the intreaty off some in authoritie of tentimes and not vpon any neede off the churche For when almoste is the request of suche as be in authoritie refused in that election In deede there is no extreme sute the doore is not so harde locked ther neadeth but the liftinge vp off the latche And yt is also I graunte withowt contention For howe can the bishope contende with him sele Vnles he and his conscience sometimes fall owte which cōtention is to be wisshed that it were greater And set me all the borowghes and cities together in the whole realme where elections passe by voice yowe shall finde they can not all afforde so many vnworthy officers as haue swarmed ministers from the sole election of the moste parte off the bishopes in Englande Yf yowr affirmaciōs be so clear that yowe dare com̄itte thē so barely withowte profe to the iudgemēt of mē I dare with better reason let these goe which are donne before the sonne in the conscience off all men which the brwte beastes them selues woulde witnes iff they coulde speake Yf he be condemned off the Apostell which iudgeth off one mans action before the time that is before he seeth what it i◠▪ what great presumption ys it thus to iudge the churche off God And therfore that I be no partaker off yowr sinne and plage which withowt repentance ensueth I answer that I thinke they will chuse the meteste that they will followe the lorde before the lorde of the towne yf the lorde off the towne drawe not with the Lorde that they will not doe one off their neighbours pleasure to the dishonour off the lorde and the hurte off all them selues and the whole congregation that the peace off God not contention will be in the churche off God that they being the church off God and the mysticall bodie off our fauiour Christe shall haue an hable and fit pastor if they haue one lyke vnto them selues and so shal be like people like pastor And iff a whole churche assembled together in the feare off God with inuocation off his name be ouercaried by affection off loue or feare to chose him that ys vnmeet the bishope maie muche more beinge but one man subiecte to the same passions they be onles yow can happely shewe some prerogatiue to exempte him from the common infection So for any thinge yet alleadged the lighte off reason rather fauoureth the election off the minister by many then by one Nowe let vs see whether the holie scriptures wheruppon wee laie the weighte off this election receiue any better answer To youre answere to the ◠and sixte off the Actes yow haue my replye before And where yow add further to the firste off the Actes that Maister Beza saithe that they were not presented by the multitude but by the Apostels onely I know not wherfore yow shoulde bringe that in For I say not that the multitude had the presentation yt appeareth manifestly that no one had the handlinge of that action which striketh the bishopes sole election to the harte yt appeareth also that the iudgement and consente of the churche was required which is that wee desire Maister Beza writeth thus Augustine vvith vvhome this vvhole chapiter is reade very corruptly interpreteth this vvorde they set vpp he set vp not vvithovvt a daungerous error for here vvas nothinge done off Peter by him selfe as one endevved vvith greater dignitie but euerie thinge is done publikely and by voices off the vvhole churche Vppon the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he saithe thus The strenght off this vvorde vvhich is to ordeine by voices is to be noted that vve maye knovve that Paule and Barnaba◠did nothīg by their ovvne priuate pleasure nor exerciced no tyrāny in the churche as the Romishe Harlot dothe novve and his assistants vvhich they call ordinaries And in other place vppon the wordes lay not thy handee suddenly vpon any c. That is saithe he admitte not all vvithovvt choise to any Ecclesiasticall function as muche as in the liethe For all the authoritie vvas not in Timothie but after the election made by voices off the vvhole churche as vve haue saide of the electiō in the 14. of the Actes ād as appeareth by the election off Matthias and the Deacons he that gouerned the cōpanie in the name of the vvhole Eldershipe did by the putting on off his handes consecrate hym that vvas chosen And in an other place were the apostle willeth Titus that he shoulde appointe elders tovvne by tovvne he referreth the reader to his exposition off the place off the 5. to Timothy and the 14. off the Actes And in the same chapiter owte off the whiche maister D. hathe borowed this place he sheweth that albeit all those thinges are not allwaies to be followed whiche were done in the apostolicall elections notwithstanding that they had one vnchangeable ende and asking what that was he answereth amongest other this that nether pastors nor Deacons shoulde be thruste vppon the flocke againste the vvill theroff And after in the same chapiter he saithe plainely that it is tyranny that the gouuernours off the churche shoulde be geuen vnto the churche vvithovvte the consent theroff also that it belongethe to the Presbytery to choose the offices off the churche when they be voide There are a nomber off moe places to be foūde in hī to this pourpose that I may leaue owt heare it epistle in his boke of epist. because I suppose yt is in euery mans handes which is moste cleare for the deciding of this cōtrouersie To come therfore to the examination off this dealinge fyrste in that he saith that it had bene a dangerous error if S. Peter had done any thinge off his ovvne authoritie withowt the assistance of other the Apostels in that he saithe that Timothie had not not onely not the election off the ministers but not the ordination in his povvre but that whiche he did he did in the name off the reste off the eldershipe and in that he saithe yt belongethe chefly to the office of the elders to chuse the offices of the churche as ofte as they be voide and addethe that he neuer founde in any Christian churche established that kinde off election vvhiche is in the povvre one yt is cleare that he vtterly condemnethe as altogether vnwonted as vsurped as tiran̄icall that election whiche is made by the bishope alone and that this is one of the substantiall poinctes off a lawfull Ecclesiasticall election that it be donne by the Eldership Secondly in that he saithe yt vvas the vnchangable pourpose off the Apostels to prouide that the gouernours off the churche shoulde not be thruste vppon the churche againste her vvill that Paule and Barnabas to then-tente they vvoulde bringe in no tyrannie into the churche permitted the election off the elders vnto the voices theroff
some reason and will yow cast yt awaie with a worde But the order of trying his gifte off expounding is good and for the moste parte necessarie For althowghe yt may be perceiued by questioning shortly with him what his vnderstanding is in the misterie off Christ yet his vtterance disposition and memorie giftes necessarie for a minister can not be tried but by suche a profe or by long acquaintaunce with him which can be seldome betwene the ordeiners and him that is to be ordeined And iff in well ordered cities ther is no man admitted to set vpp in any mysterie onlesse he haue offered to the Maisters off the companie some worke for a masterpeece and declaration that he hathe skil in that he will open his shop for how muche more in the ministerie off God owght it to be prouided that before he be allowed to worke in the great misterie off our saluation and laye hand to the framyng of the siluer vessels of the church off God the maisters off the companie especially whiche are the Elders off the church being best able to iudge owght to haue triall how he handleth the goulden hammer off the word off God. But if M. D. which at other times loseth the corde off lawfull vocation will here to pinche me vvith all girde it so streight I answere that neither he which is to be admitted doth it withowt vocation being therunto called by those whiche haue to doo in the electiō nether doo they admit him withowt warrant of the word of god For the lord in com̄aunding to take a sufficient triall of his abitilie ād that precisely before he be admitted doth in that commaundement include all thinges that pertaine therto For as vvhen any peace off grownd is giuen vnto one ther is also a waye to come vnto it graunted withall althowghe the same be not mentioned so the lord in giuing to his church power to trie his ministers can not by any meanes bethowght to haue hedged vp the way which leadeth neerest vnto that triall And beside the reason heroff owt off the word off God ioyned with the practise off diuerse churches We haue plaine examples in the scripture as I haue shewed in my former booke And how dothe not the A. here condemne manifestly the exercise of common place vsed in the vniuersities wherin younge men that they might he better prepared for the ministerie do interprete in there courses the scriptures which haue no admittance or ordination vnto the ministerie I will let yow passe heere with this contrarietie with yowr selffe that yow graunt to euery minister the rule off his flock whiche deni it so stoutlie in other places where yow giue it to the Bishops and Archbishops If yow had found suche a one in me yow would haue made suche hue and crie sufficient to haue raised a whole countrey But I will not presse your contrarieties but wher they be pregnant And so I leaue it to the iudgement off the indifferent reader how well the answerer hathe mainteined the wantes off the booke which were by me in this behalffe assigned Their wordes are to be seene my replie and your answer let the world iudge what forehead there is in him which saith they condemne all as euill and as vnlearned lest I spend moe wordes in prouinge that it is light at noone daies There is more likelehoode that for want of iust triall they might be thowght to denie a lawfull callinge to those which are admitted by the common order But it followeth not theroff that they saie there are none lawfullie admitted for the cause before alledged And it is vnreasonable yow should charge them vvith that vvhich I vvrite or vvith that the second admonition vvriteth Touching the nombre off sufficient ministers in Fraunce I wrote that vvhich I receiued wether it be trew or no it may easely be knowen of those vvhich vvill enquire off it Take yow good leaue to speake all good off the vniuersitie it shal be my recreation after your importunate barkinges yt is my dailie praier it may goo well with her and althowghe I be from her yet I caried some of her boweles vvith me so that whether there be in her either iust cause of ioye or sorowe I haue them in com̄on with her I can take no exceptiō vnto yowr 450. vniuersitie preachers not hauīg the register of the vniuersitie but yow did warely saie knowē preachers and not godly preachers for some of those haue troubled the vniuersitie and other places with popishe leauen of pargatorie free will ād Abrahams besome cut owt by a larger measure then euer our sauiour Christ taught But to le◠the corruption off some and the inhabilitie off other some with the so rare preachinge off certeine that as at the appearinge off a comete or blasinge starr or some other notable change in the heauens so at their preaching there may be feare off some calamitie to come to let all those goe to helpe to make vp this garlond off 450. yow owght not haue forgotten to subducte those which are taken awaie by death those vvhich are thrust owt off the ministerie and musled by the bishops those which are mued in cloisters those which beside the necessarie vse off the vniuersitie remaine there and those vvhich hauing charges in the countrey lurke there These being subducted excepte the accomptes doo rise better then yow shew I feare me that I may cut of from the numbre of 2000. hable ministers in the whole church of Englād which I assigned before as many as yow take from that nombre which I reported to be in Fraunce And alas what are these fiue loues and 2. fishes to so many thowsand churches So that if yow had not doone it at vnwares and had not had an other ende then is false owt we should haue had to thāke yow for this leuie of ministers vvhich the vniuersity hathe bred as that which strēgtheneth the fewnes off hable ministers which I assigned M. D. hand is still on his halfepennie and as Plautus Euclio he suspecteth euery man for his treasure and by putting his hand so often to the sore vvhen he is not touched he declareth plainely vvhat is the greife The feare of spoile off the churches goodes is not vvithowt cause But there was no cause to suspecte it in the Innes off court which off their yearly exhibitions giuen to mainteine there studies haue erected vp three diuinitie lectures more for any thing I know then all the bishops haue doone Therfore yow euill requite this liberalitie with such suspitions Yf the Centurion deserued praise for building a Synagoge and is cōmended by the holie Gost to all posteritie for his liberalitie in prouidinge a place for the preachinge off the word then they for there liberalitie in prouidinge for the minister him selfe deserued a better gratulation then this Yf they had throwen in somewhat into the Corban and botomlesse bagge it should haue bene counted to them for
and by the expresse mouthe off God I see not what man coulde put him owte off yt withowte the same authoritie whiche put him in Laste off all it is verie probable that vvhere yt is saide in an other place that Moses stood vp and praied for Aaron then Moses receiued answere what shoulde be doone withe Aaron towchinge his continuance in the ministerie Where yowr glosse in the ende supposeth contrarietie seinge yt settethe downe none I haue not to answere yt may be the A. lawghed vvhen he vvrote that vvherby he requireth sincere dealing in the scriptures For if this be sitting in his mouthe vvhich corrupteth in a manner all he toucheth vvhy should not also a light housewiffe talke of the chastitie off a graue matrone The nexte diuis belonging vnto the 6. Tract off vnpreaching ministers shall there God vvilling be answered Off election off Ministers vn voices or other consente off the people Chap. 4. pag. 155. IF Chrysostome had had anie thinge to saie towching the election off Deacons he shoulde haue spokē vvhen tyme was and when that place was handled Yet for answere the reader maye vnderstand that Chrysost in that place makethe comparison betwen the election in the firste off the Actes and this and sheweth howe the Apostels did otherwise there then here For there they chose two vvhiche they set vpp before the churche So that vvhen Chrysost saithe the Apostels myght haue chosen the deacons yt may be he meaneth they might haue chosen them as they did the two Mathias and Barsabas In whiche choise I haue shewed the consente off the people was required Yff there were but this place whiche the D. citeth I woulde stande vpon this answer but considering that Chrys in another place affirmeth that Peter might haue chosen him selfe which I would not kepe from the knowledge off the reader I will not denie but that Chrysost might haue heere the meaning the D. supposeth Wherto as I can by no meanes agree vpon the reasons both before and after alledged so the D. is not helped For when Chryso commendeth Peter that he did all thinges by the aduise off the churche nothing off his ovvne autoritie nothing vvith dominion When he addeth also that the same was to auoide contention and that nether he nor the reste off the Apostles should be thovvght to chuse off fauour he declareth sufficiently that there is no bishop of that ether authoritie or holines off life vvhich in making the election without consente of the church dooth not bothe laie him selfe and his ministery open to suspiciō of parcialitle and giue occasion off pernicious debates in the churche He shoulde also vnderstande that this proportion is vneuen and that if yt were granted whiche he desyrethe yet he is not where he woulde be For iff it were lawfull for the Apostels indued with extraordinarie giftes off discretion off spirites to chuse yt foloweth not therfore that one Bishopp may doo so And because yt was lawfull for the 12. Apostels to chuse them withe whome they were dailie conuersante therfore it is lawfull for one bishoppe to chuse those whiche he neuer see nor knewe before Before I goo any further yt is to be obserued that althowghe the Ans holde owte in the defense off this cawse off election by the Bishope certeine wordes of learned mē racked from their meaninge and contrarie to the continual practise off the authors yet the trwthe is that as this assertion is the Papistes and Papistes againste the Protestantes so all his principall bothe argumentes and solutions haue bene worde for worde ministred vnto him owte off the bokes off the ranckeste enemyes off the trwthe Yff the reader will see this question diducted at large betwene the catholikes and the papistes let hym reade Hosius and Phigius in thes bokes which I haue noted I will onely note the places whēce the Ans argumētes are fetched with his startinge holes vvherwithe he vvoulde abuse the worlde And firste off all Marsilius a Catholike whome the lorde had stirred vpp to mainteine the trwthe off the Gospell Aboute the time off Pope Iohn the 12. disputinge againste the sole election off the bishope vsethe this reason whiche wee haue heere in hande namelie that forasmuche as the churche chose here Deacons as it appearethe in the Actes therfore yt owghte muche more chuse her mynisters This reason Phigius as the D derideth no more hable to answer yt then he The manifeste wordes off the texte are that Paule and Barnabas ordeined elders by voces neither is there any learned and godlie man browghte or as Iam perswaded can be browghte that euer denied that the churches were in election off their ministers ioyned with Paul and Barn. That Zuingl saithe some were called to the ministerie off the worde by the Apostels onely what is yt to proue that Paule and Barnabas did here in this place ordeine myinisters withowte the voices off the churche yt is well therfore M Zuing. hath expressed whiche the D. hathe vnfaithfully holden backe who translatinge whole pages to no purpose coulde not here aforde vs one poore sentence off the lengthe off two lines The other halfe off the sentence is this As saithe he vvhen by the decree off the Apostels Peter and Iohn vvere sente vnto Samaria Marcke I beseche yow what manner of election this was The Apostels chose two but suche as were approued mynisters before what is this to proue that the byshope maie chuse those whiche were neuer approued or chosen vnto the ministrie The Apostels chose them to goe an embassage whiche shoulde be ended in a fewe daies and what is that to proue that a bishoppe maie chuse to a perpetuall function The Apostels did yt withowte the consente off that churche vnto whiche that matter did not belonge what is that to proue that the bishope maie chuse a minister withowte the consente off that churche whiche that election dothe concerne for that electiō belonged not vnto the churche of Ierusalem where they were if yt had there is no doubte but the Apostels woulde not haue doon yt withowte the cōsente therof I leue here to speake of the difference of bishop and Apostel off twelue and one whiche beinge obserued in the former section needeth no rehersall And as this maketh nothinge for the election off the bishope so yt maketh against that for the whiche this place is browghte For iff maister Zuing. had bene off that iudgemente that Paule and Barnabas did by them selues chuse withowte the churche he woulde likely haue browghte that example cōsideringe that this can not be properly called any election to the Mynistrie whiche was off those which were ministers before But that yow may yet better knowe the D. vnfaithfull dealinge ioined with shameles bouldnes off alledging authoritice I will set downe Maister Zwinglius iudgemente in this cause which he vttereth in diuers places off that booke owte off whiche the D. hathe alledged this but most manifestly within les
for the Apostelship And if no election of the church can be saide to haue beene in the fyrste off the Actes because an Apostell can not be chosen off any but off God alone then can not the Apostels which the D. affirmeth be saide to haue chosen Matthias and Barnabas owte of the reste off the churche In the 1. 2. 3. sections off this diuision he hathe filled vp allmost a whole side wherin ther is nothinge at all which either is not gone before or commeth not after and so grosly repeted withowte ether newe coate or newe colour that I meruaile he is not ashamed For the places Act. 1. 6. 14. for that also Cor. 8. 2. I haue replied before to the other answere shall be made in their places Now then to begin̄e with the falsifyinge yow charge me with I saie that althowghe I haue not gyuen yow the same wordes yet I haue gyuē yow the same weighte and I acknowledge yow for no M. of the tonge by whose autoritie I shoulde be bound to the same wordes which yow vse I haue not taken yow as yow doo me at the worste but I haue gyuen yowr wordes a fauorabler meaninge then they deserue bycause I perceiued that yow mente to comprehende Cyprians tymes althowgh yowr wordes euen to Cyprians time woulde not so well beare it yt is disputed whether this worde vntyll or vnto dothe shutte owte or shut in the tyme wheroff it is spoken but there was neuer I think anie that dowbted vvhether that sayinge in cōmon speach mighte be stretched owte beyonde that time wherunto it is particularly applied Notwithstanding yowr wordes are yet more restreintiue For yt restreineth more to saie euen to suche a time then to saie simplie vntill suche a time for that encrease off the worde euen makethe the wall off separation higher But nowe he seethe the vntrwthe off this sayinge he castethe yt vppon Maister Musc and he must beare the weighte off yt But suche moste grosse ignorance off the estate off the primitiue churche was farre from him And Maister Musc cleareth him selfe off it well For when he saieth that the election of the minister by the voices off the churche endured vnto Cyprians tyme he meaneth not as the D. to put difference betwene the elections made by the people and the bishopp but shewethe onely a difference betwene elections made by consente off the people withowte the magistrate and betwene the elections made by the consente of the people withe the confirmation off the Magistrate And that this is his meaninge yt maie easely appeare For pursuinge the profe of that election by the churche without the magistrate alledging certein Canōs thus he cōcludeth After this sorte therfore vvere the Elders bishops and deacons in times paste chosen vvhiche fashion they still reteined vntill the tyme off Christian magistrates vvhose consente vnto the election off the bishops vvas required Therfore this absurditie beinge the Ans owne he muste be contente to beare yt Yt makethe no matter that this forme of election was not in some fewe churches off the worlde in Cyprians time nether is it meruaile althowghe in some places at that time they had departed from the institution of the Apostolicall churche If it be proued that Cyprian teachethe that it owghte to be so and that it is Gods ordinance if all the churches had declined from yt as there were verie fewe Cyprian muste needes by that sentence disalowe them Althowghe I muste also admonishe yow that if those fewe examples in Cyprians tyme coulde preiudice the trwthe yet yowr bishops election is not confirmed therby for it mighte be doone by the eldershipe of the churche by assemblie off manie bishops moste vnlikeste is yt off all other that it vvas doone at the pleasure off one bishope Let vs therfore come to examine Cyprians iudgemente and see vvhether I haue reported trwly of him Firste as a trewante lothe to goe to scoole seeketh the furthest vvaie so the A. afraide off the lighte off Ciprians vvordes makethe entrance into this sentence by halfe a score lines vvhich mighte haue bene in one Heere good reader as the A callethe for thy diligence so if thowe gyue a litle heede thow shalte see suche open and violente peruertinge as coulde not be doone withowte cracke off conscience Firste therfore let vs holde that vvhich I thincke is accorded off both partes that Cyprians purpose is to withdrawe the people from communicatinge with the ministrie off those which had fallen from the gospell vnto Idolatrie To the confirmation vvheroff vvhen he had alleadged the greuousnes off that crime he addethe especially seinge the people haue povvre to chuse vvorthie and to refuse vnvvorthie ministers As if he shoulde saie if it vvere not in yowr powre to refuse those vnworthie ministers yow mighte haue some excuse or if beinge in yowr powre to refuse the vnworthie yow had not also powre to chuse another worthy yow mighte haue likwise somewhat for excuse For yow mighte alledge peraduenture that it vvere better to kepe him stil then to be vvith owte altogether or to haue a nother as euill or worse then he but seinge yow haue bothe power to refuse the vnworthly and to a chuse a nother there muste needes befaulte That this is the meaninge off Cyprian and his argumente wherwith he calleth them backe from communicatinge vvith the ministrie off those vvhich had fallen all vvhich can set the nominatiue case and verbe together muste needes vnderstande Nowe let vs see vvhether the exposition off the Ans vvill mainteine this sayinge To accorde him and Cyprian vve muste firste expounde thes vvordes to haue povvre to chuse and to haue povvre to refuse to be to stande by while they be chosen or refused Whiche maister D. gatherethe belike becawse Cyprian saithe the election muste be had the people beinge presente In deede it appearethe the maner was then that he that was to be chosen was before them but is it a good reason that Cyprian woulde haue the people presente at the election therfore he vvoulde not haue them to chuse seinge he had sayde im̄ediatly before that they had powre to chuse Yt is well therfore that he added that yt owghte to be doone by their iudgemente so that if the churche iudged him not meet he owghte not to be minister And further addeth vvhich the D. is afraid of and whiche he shamfully deniethe in state wordes by their voices The examples out off the Actes wherwith he bringethe lighte vnto that vvhich he thawghte are touched before and amongest others by the electiō off the Deacōs whiche becawse the D. can not denie but it was by the churche he hathe lefte yt clean forthe and yet most plainly he sheweth this by exāple of an electiō which was lately made in the churche wherunto he vvritethe sayinge vvhiche vvee see to haue bene doone vvithe yovv in the ordeininge off our fellovve in office Sabinus thar the bishopricke shoulde be gyuen him by the
haue answered yt before There is nothinge so easie which is not harde to him that is vnwillinge And therfore the A as Salomons sluggard saith that the Lion whose delighte is in the foreste and in the wildernes is in the highe streat or in the burse that is to saie maketh difficulties wher none is And as this partly cometh of his vnwillingnes so diuers of thes questions if he doo not dissemble come of wante off knowledge not onely of the gouernemente of the churches nowe but off all aunciete tymes For he asketh who shall complaine off the faulte committed in the election to the churches by if the elders to vvhom that care especially apperteineth doo not others owght whō that disorder offendeth Ther needeth no callinge together and therfore no danger off tumulte disorder confusion charges partes takinge runninge vpp and downe losse off time offence quarels yt is enowghe that yt be doone by the eldership off the churches and if were needfull to haue the churches who le consente it might be doone in ordinarie meetinge for the seruice of god without anie of those things which the D. imagineth The churches maie admonishe by their seueral or cōmen letters emōgeste thē But aske me not who shall carie the letter what he shal haue for his paines whether he shal ride or goe a foote whiche yow might as well as those fonde questiōs which you haue moued It is meete the prouinciall Synodes be certeine and standinge as often also as maie be conueniently and it was ordeined as I thinke in one of the Africane Councels that their shoulde be at the leste twoo or three euery yeare So there shall be as spedie prouision off a pastor for the churche in suche cases off difference as now when they be without a pastor six whole monethes For the questions who shall summon the Synodes and in what place they shall be holden they perteine not to this questiō onles the A. will haue no Synodes at all for if he admitte them the sum̄oner and the place which are meete for the assemble generally and for the decidinge off all causes which fall into the consideracion off the Synod are meete also for this cause And where he asketh what if the prince doo not his dutie then yt is as if there vvere no godly magistrate then yt is vvith them as if suche a disorder shoulde happen vnder an vnchristian prince and then the people shall perishe in their sinnes but their bloud shall be required at his hand But still the A. seethe not how hee reasoneth againste hym selfe For if none of the bishoppes off the foresaide parishes none off the elders neither those bishoppes and elders vvhich emongeste the reste and in the name off all are chosen as the flowres oute of the prouince ād sente to the Synode nor the magistrate I saie if none off all thes nor all thes together doo their dutie how shall we thinke that the bishopp vvill doo it And iff hee doo yt in appoinctinge a fitt bishopp for the parishe and the parishe will not admitt him but take one vvhich is vnmeete off their owne choise what remedy hath he when he is forsaken off the magistrate Thus as shortly as I coulde I haue answered this legion off questions and if my answer in speakinge off thinges so commen be tedious take thy selfe good reader vnto the A. which merueileth at them as if they came oute off India Where he saithe I thus appointe the Prince a good office I haue shewed that the scripture appointeth yt and not I and it is the moste honorable office which the Prince can haue to see the churches be kepte in good order nether taketh yt any thinge from the royall estate that he muste obey and serue the lorde And where he saithe by this meanes the Prince muste stande and loke on all this while and in the ende laie to his hande I answer that wheras thes waies off admonition by the churches and Synode are sente before his authoritie yt serueth not onely for the ease off the magistrate whilest that after this sorte oftentimes the difference is ended before it come to him but also agreeth better with the maner off Phisicke which owght to be vsed in such diseases For that vvhich may be conueniently wonne vvith a vvorde shoulde not be gotten by the sworde and that vvhich maye begotten to bee doone with conscience shoulde not be essaied by compulsion Yowr slaunder that wee gyue no more to the cyuill magistrate then the papistes so often repeted is already and god willing shall be more apparante Yt is also a notable and an impudente slaunder that the Magistrate muste onely at the cōmaundemēt of the seniors execute suche lawes as they haue deuised wher as wee holde that if al the bishopes and elders in the realme woulde decree vnlawfull thinges the Prince owght to make them voide ād that he may ād owght to punishe all ecclesiasticall persons which walke disorderly Likewise yt is a fond dreame of surcharginge the Prince with thes matters as thowgh the Princes authoritie necessarily deriued vnto diuers in euery shire for other affaires off gouernment maie not likwise depart also this care vnto them Therfore if yow haue no better exceptiōs then these I am not afraied stil to cōmit my reasons to the iudgement not onely of the godly vvhich rest in authoritie of the word but euen off the wise ād reasonable man which maketh his account of likelihoodes THes highe wordes that he remembreth no learned writer new nor oulde which denieth that there were fewe professors of the gospell in the Apostels times in respecte off those professe nowe what haue they beside a crake And in respecte off the oulde writers yt is absurdly saide For howe coulde they compare the nomber of the professors of our times with those which were in the primitiue churches onles they shoulde prophecie seinge they were dead long before And maketh yt for yow if the newe writers doo not denie this Iff it he no good reason from the scripture negatiuely in those thinges which yt professeth to speake off is it good from other vvriters and frō one parte off them in thinges which they make no profession of ▪ I looked therfore yow shoulde haue browghtesome vvhich by affirming that yow saie mighte if not make it true yet at the leste seeme true I could off yowr chalenge take occasion to bringe all the peregrination off Sainct Paul declared in the Act. Epistles and especially in the 15. Rom. drawen to my hand by which appeareth that he for his parte onely had caused the Gospell to sounde in more then halfe off the worlde I coulde also fetche in Euseb and Ierome which testifie vvhat the other Apostels did for their parte I propounded that which I saide withoute proofe because the thinges are manifestly knowen and suche as can not be denied yow affirme withowte all proofe that in controuersie and wheruppon yowr cause in yowr
the Epistell againste the circunstance off the place he alledgeth that the moste off the preceptes conteined in that epistell doo properly perteine vnto Timothe as he is a bishop Which is vntrwe especially in that sense he taketh a bishop which the Apostels neuer knewe off for there shal be scarse two sentences found in the whole epistle which agree not to euery pastor And set aside those whiche cōcerne teachinge there are very fewe not commen with him vnto an elder which onely gouerneth Beside diuers belonging vnto the whole church as well as vnto him and some rather to other partes off the church then vnto him yet iff the moste shoulde properly belonge vnto him howe can he proue that the sentence off not layinge one off handes rashly doth onele belonge vnto him he hath cyted many to proue that Saint Paule saith yt doth belonge vnto the bishop which is not denied but that yt doth onely belonge by this place off Saint Paule which is denied he hath not one Nay diuers off his authors heere alledged haue the contrarie off that he pretendeth to proue by them For Bull. I haue saide Calu. denyinge that ether Paule or Timothe did any thinge in elections withowt the consent off the church towching the bare ceremonie off layinge on the handes he dowteth whether yt were doone by one or many And Ierome althowgh he saie that the ordinacion belonged to the bishop yet I haue shewed in the former booke that he cōfesseth that that was by no order of God or rule of the Apostles by which he confesseth that the bishopps were equall vnto the reste of the elders but onely by constitutiō off men Therfore he is vntrwely cited to confirme that by this place off the Apostell the bishoppe hath ether the election or ordination vnto him selffe As for Chrysostome and Oecumenius vnto whome is added Beza pag 226. Where this is repeted I answer at ones that yt semeth violent that the Apostle vsinge the worde eldershipe shoulde shutte forth those which were properly called elders And where I alledged pag. 226. that Chrisostome ment not by those wordes to put a distinctiō betwene elders by age and office I was deceiued The occasion was because he doth so in the same epistle where he had no more cause then heere and not lokinge vppon the the place when I wrote I tooke one for another But yt is to be noted that their interpretation is directly againste the D. for Chrysostome affirmeth that the Bishoppes off Ephesus which appeare to haue bene diuers in the Actes did lay on their handes and Beza that all those vvhich had the mynistrie off the vvorde are meant by the vvord presbitery So that by their iudgement one onely did not ordeine nor lay on handes both which the D. affirmeth As for the other sentence off Chrysostome with Theophilacte althowgh Paule lefte vnto Tite to doe those thinges which were ioined with most honour yt foloweth not that he lefte them to be doone otherwise then himselfe did them But he doth to much abuse his reader which would make hym beleue that he drewe this from the godly writers which he hath from professed enemies off the trwth For thes are the reasons off Pighius which to proue that the bishopp onely should choose and not the church alledged thes twoo places off Tite and Timothe which the Answerer hath Thus the firste reason off the D. with all the authorities wherwith he hath walled yt is gone to the ground for as for Ambrose testimonie yt maketh nether whot nor kolde no man dowteth but that Timothe owght to be circumspecte in ordeininge ministers The second reason is that iff the election off a bishop had off necessytie perteined vnto the people thē S. Paul would not haue writtē to Timothe of yt but vnto the churches as well as vnto him As though there were not many thinges in those epistles necessay for the churches to doo or as though they inscribed vnto Titus and Timothe are not written for the instruction of the whole churche euen in that very sentence off imposition off handes For when Saint Paule tawght that Timothe mighte not lay on his handes rashly he tawght the whole churches that they shoulde not chuse any rashely What is I besech yow in Saint Lukes two bookes dedicated vnto Theopilus which doth not aswell perteine vnto all sortes off men in the church as vnto him That the holy ghoste therfore intituleth his bookes sometimes vnto particular persons was not that the Doctrine conteined in them shoulde more perteine vnto them then vnto others but ether because he woulde lifte vpp their heade aboue the reste or for some other particuler circumstance .. And in Maister Caluines iudgement they were both written rather for instruction off other in the church then for Timothe and Titus For there beinge great resistance made vnto those younge men off diuers in the churches off Ephesus and Crete the Apostle to supporte them againste their aduersaries and to gird them with more authoritie so intituled their epistles that they mighte knowe that those thinges they did ād tawght they nether did nor taught of them selues but by his cōmaundement As therfore all thinges conteined in thes Epistles were to be knowen off Timothe and Titus so were they all to be knowen off euery one in those churches And as there are thinges in them the exercise wheroff concerned Timothe and Titus onely so there are other the exercise wheroff did at no hand apperteine to any off them As for the circumstance off the place which he saieth is against my replie he sheweth none But there is a manifest circūstance againste him which the Apostle by and by addeth kepe they selfe pure and communicate not vvith the faultes off other as iff he should saie althowghe thow canste not hinder the ordeining off insufficient officers of the church yet kepe they selfe pure Moreouer if this writing vnto Timothe alone that he should laie handes off none rashely shoulde giue him alone authoritie to ordeine and electe pastors then yt should followe that not onely the church and elders off Ephesus but the Bishopes which were there together with Timothe should haue bene shutte owte which iff the D. dare not saie beside that this holde is gone he muste recante the sole election and ordination by Timothe Yow maie easely put me owte off dowbte off that which I neuer dowbted and which I haue somewhere confessed that by the ceremonie off layinge on off handes the whole forme off orderinge is vnderstanded But off that yow shoulde proue that in that place off Saint Paule it is so vnderstanded althowghe yt is not that which can hurte our cause yow bringe not so much as maie induce vnto any the leaste suspiciō Your reason that he did electe because he did appoincte is to symple For albeit to chuse be to appointe yet euery one which appointeth chooseth not no more then yt followeth that because euery man liueth
to the differeÌ„ce I shewe to haue bene betwene your bishop and Ieromes â–ª yow tell that I took my worde onely owt off Illyricus as yow did your worde off excellinge which is vntrw For I gathered yt owt off Ieromes manifeste wordes which denieth that the bishop differeth from an elder but in ordinacion not knowing whether Illyricus hath that word or no. Nether are yow helped by the colledge election Because that ther is great difference betwene the libertie which maie be vsed in Cyuill elections and in Ecclesiasticall confirmed euen by placinge off bishops with vs whose ordeiners are not also choosers I haue shewed how the election and ordination are doone off diuers and the next diuis handleth that matter nether is there any thing in yowr manifolde questions to the contrary then all which one onely reason had bene a greate deale better Nether forget I my selfe one whit in that I alledged owt off the councells off Carthage and Toledo where the ordination is gyuen to the bishops but no worde that the election belongeth vnto them Howbeit because I see yow hauing not to answer seeke startinge holes I will not suffer yow to runne owte thether nether will I make yr any question betwene vs whether the bishop maie both chuse and ordeyne â–ª yt shall be enowgh for vs that he can not electe alone and withowt the church nor ordeine alone withowt other ministers T. C. hath many ouersyghtes because the D. doth not or will not see what he setteth downe Yow had to proue that the election belongeth to the bishoppe to conclude that yow bringe that he ordeined Therunto I answered that yt followeth not but rather the contrarie that he ordeined therfore he chose not I saide not symplye that the contrarie folowed but rather the contrary Your example of the vertues is altogether vnlyke they beinge so â—â—ncked that he that hath one hath al fowre which is not in election and ordination by your owne testimonie confessing that the election may be the peoples but not the ordination The example off the foot and hande declareth manifestly that I reasoned againste that false conclusion off yours which vppon that the bishop did ordeine woulde needes haue yt followe that he also elected Yow gett no aduantage in that the worde off election is sometimes taken for ordination and coÌ„trariwise For althowghe the wordes be confounded yet the thinges remaine still seperated And if yow thinke that the right off election is gotten to the bishop because in steed off saying the bishop ordeined yt is saide the bishop chose it foloweth that when in steed of saying the people chose yt is saide the people ordeined the people also gaine the right off ordinacion And iff yow shoulde gaine yt yet be yow neuer the nerer your pourpose vnles yow be hable to shewe that the bishop alone withowt the church did chuse or withowt the colledge off elders aÌ„d other bishops did ordeine Therfore in makinge so great accompte off this yowr hookie is greater then yowr harveste Heere be vaine quarels againste the quotacion because yt is saide the glosse vppon the Act. and not the ordinarie glosse all vvhich retourne vppon Illyricus Belyke to auoide the place vvhich saith precisely that the people owghte to chuse vvherunto the D. answereth not a word althowgh it be warranted by example off the Apostles and directly to the cause which is that the Bishoppes ordination owght not to shut owt the peothe peoples election The D. vppon the coniunction disiunctiue woulde proue Ierome falsified For that in so much as he saith if ether the people or the bishop choose thee to be of the clergy he woulde conclude that the bishope did choose withowt the people But he shoulde remember that if therby the bishoppes election be established withowt the people by the same reason the peoples election off the minister is established withowt the bishoppe If he dare not saie that then let him vnderstand that I haue faithfully followed the meaninge off Ierome and that this worde or is not alwaies a note off separation Which that it maie yet more clearly appeare I will shewe the like manner off speach off Leo the firste whose wordes are no reason suffreth that they shoulde be counted amongest the bishopes vvhich are nether chosen of the clergy nether desyred of the people nether consecrated of the Metrapolitane vvith the conprouinciall bishoppes Here althowgh the bishoppe vse a disiunctiue as if it shoulde be sufficient to haue any off thes and not all together yet yt appeareth both by the decrees off other Which foundinge them selues off those wordes haue decreed that the people owght to choose with the clergie and plainly by his wordes after that he mente they shoulde all be ioyned together For he addeth vvhen the question shall be to choose the cheife prieste whiche he called before the Bishoppe let hym be preferred vvhom the consent off the clergie and people shall require and after sheweth the reason why the peoples consent owght to be had I graunte that I tooke Musculus wordes for Ieromes yet iff that make to the pourpose I had redd the place And Ierome himselffe in an other place hath a sentence not much vnlyke For in a epistell againste the bishope off Ierusalem he reprocheth him that he dispised the laitie deacons and elders for that he coulde in one howre as himselfe boasted make a thowsande clearkes wherby appeareth the corruption which Muscu speaketh of and which is nowe vsed with vs off makinge so manie at a clappe at the bishopps pleasure onely both the people and the elders beinge neglected to haue bene in those times and yet not to haue gotten such footinge nether to haue bene so vniuersally doone but that the bishoppes which vsed that manner were therby subiecte to shamfull reproch And how cometh yt to passe that yow send Musculus here withoute all answer Which dooth bothe flatly condemne all such odinacions which are made off the bishoppe before election off the church and bringeth Ierome for his warrante referring Ierome which saith there vvas no election off mynisters at all vnto that the bishoppe did appoincte vvhome he lifted vvithowt the consente off the church As for the place yow cyte owte off that epistle yt maketh not to pourpose For it is not denied that the bishope hath to dooe in the choise off the minister but that he alone hath to doo How Cyprian is wholy oures in this cause hath bene shewed this exception also is answered onely here it is to be added that in the epistle owt of which the D. cyteth this exaÌ„ple of Aurelius yt is expressly saide that Cyp. did not chuse him reader of his owne autority but by autority of his felow ministers which were presente at that time That he saith heer aÌ„d alledgeth after owt of Gratians glosse that the peoples intereste in elections consisteth in bearinge wittnes off the good conuersation of the ministers beside that yt
is a popishe shifte as I haue shewed sufficiently before confuted yt hath no grounde in the vvorde testimony wherout he woulde pull yt For by a fygure off metonymy he noteth the peoples voice because by giuinge it they gaue also testimony what they the wght off him Where it is to be noted that the D. giueth no more to the churche off God then S. Paul giueth to straungers froÌ„ yt of whom he willeth that the bishop shall haue a good report There followeth the open violence doone vnto August wordes Where first let the reader obserue againe that this wresting of the example of Eradius against the election of the church was taken from Pighius as appeareth manifestly But for answer vnto Pigbius and the D. it muste be vnderstanded how for that election of Eradius to be bishop after August decease there were assembled two bishopes besides August 6. Elders beside Eradius with the reste of the clergie and people For what purpose all thes if it were in Augustines powre to choose onelie After yt appeareth that Augustine did call the people to haue there consente because he had experience off trouble and discontentement of the people off Millen for that Seuerus the bishop there did appoincte his successor before his death withowte speakinge any thinge theroff vnto them vvhich could not be auoided off Augustine if he mente to chuse any againste the will off the people For yt had bene better for him to haue appoincted one as Seuer us did vvithowte communicatinge the matter vnto them then in communicatinge yt to take one againste their willes Againe where the D. vppon those wordes I vvill haue Eradius my successor woulde haue that Augustine onely had the election off him he is coÌ„futed by and by after with his owne wordes I saie that I vvill haue him because I knovve that yovv vvill haue him And after he vvilleth that the publike notories shoulde as vvell note their voices as his vvill in this matter that saith he your consentes fall not to the grounde or become voide Wherunto also pertaine the subscriptions of them which folowed Which althowgh the D. saith are referred onely vnto the peticion off Augustine to be discharged off the hearinge off ciuill matters yet the wordes sounde otherwise For when he required their subscription to those Actes yt is cleare that he muste be vnderstanded to haue spoken off both those matters otherwise he woulde haue required subscription to that Acte and not vnto the Actes And where in the ende for an other reason he addeth Augustine was appointed bishope when Valerius bishope off Hippo was a liue I see not howe it maketh for him one word For if he think that Valerius off his Authoritie did it he is vtterly deceiued seing Possidonius writeth that Valerius spake vnto the people to prouide and to ordeine an elder off the cytie and sheweth how he was ordeined by the consente off all the people Which thinge yff it were not more lighter then the none daies off this Epistle off August yet yt mighte appeare by other as where he declareth that Pinianns was ordeined off the people elder off the church againste his will. moe might be alleadged but thes shall suffyse Sauinge that I muste put Maister D. in remembrance howe he merueilously forgetteth him selfe For grauntinge me before that the councell off Carthage wherat Augustine was presente decreed that the election shoulde be made by the commen consente off the people clerkes and bishopes in the same prouince he must heere needes confesse that ether Augustine did there ioine together in election with the church and the clergie as they terme them or that he brake the order off the Councell which could not be vvithowt his fault although the election off the church had bene as the D. esteemeth yt but a thing indifferent And the truth is yt appeareth that August had in that election an expresse regard vnto the decree off the councell which caused him beside the eldership off the church and people to send for two other bishops to be assistants Wherupon the reader may see how there is no light off wordes so cleare which Phighius and the Ans misled will not giue thâ—nser to darcken Besides that Ambrose calleth yt a diuine election which is made by the church which he could not onles yt were by the institution off God the whole discourse off the Epistle teacheth that the election off the people is there accounted off as necessary For when the church off Vercella did linger the time in not chusing a bishop vvhen it vvas also infected vvith Heretickes vvhy did not Amb. at least by vvay off Lapse take the election vnto him self but vvriteth vnto them reprehending them that they did not aske for a bishop as other churches were vvont to doo Gregor Nazienz speaking there off diuers elections vvherin still the people bore one part and that withowt controlement speaketh more for that election in that one place then the D. hath hitherto or in the residue of his treatise is able to shew And where he might seeme to haue somewhat nipped at it in shewing how at certeine elections some off the people were contentious he healeth that euen in the next sentence to this saying that at that time it was to be feared lest he ovvght to iudge the popular regiment better ordered then their ovvne and after maketh mention off the corruption off those which were fellow elders vvith his father but obserue I pray yow againe the D. faith fulnes which expouÌ„deth the worde churches the clergy Where learned he thus to expound Let it be that as in the scripture sometime so in the auncient fathers the eldership off a church is called by the name off church where can he euer shew that the eldership or as he termeth it the clergy of one onely church vvherof Greg. speaketh is called by the name off churches In steed therfore that he should haue translated both the richer and they off great authority in the church vvere cleane from that euill he hath translated the churches that is to say the clergy c taking the nominatiue plurall for the genitiue syngular Which although in the latin toung if one take not heed vnto the sense may deceiue yet vvhen the D. had the Greeke which hath off the church before him as it seemeth by cyting the greeke in the same place by and by after ether he vnderstood it not or willingly peruerted the meaning So I leaue to the reader whether I haue reasoned to the pourpose or no and whether yow besides wordes haue any thing at all As in certeine other places so in this in steed off that I should haue taken the quotacion which came after I taking the quotacion in my paper booke which went before was deceiued and for the 6. and 7. of Socrates set downe the 6. and 7. of Eusebius This verely is the error which the D. maketh so
to Lazarus dead in his graue come forth and to the Palseie man ryse and vvalke And his breathing beinge the Sacrament off those wordes receiue the holy goste they muste off necessitie be referred to the same ende So that if our Sauiour woulde declare his deuinity by one it was his minde to doo the same by the other And if because he instituted a minister by those wordes they are to be vsed then the breathing also must lykwise considering that he vsed that for the confirmacion off the wordes Where he saith they conteine a perpetuall promise off the presence off the spirite with those which Christe shall call euen so doth the commaundinge off the sea c. to be quiet conteine a perpetuall promise that the winde and sea shoulde ryse and fall for the profite off those vvhich be the Lordes But as there is no promise that that shall be in abating their rage so foundainly as our Sauiour Christe did so there is no worde that the Lorde will giue his spirite by pronouncing off this sentence The bishop saithe he hath no meaninge to commaunde Nether had the Papistes but why he shoulde speake one thing and meane another he can shewe no reason therfore our faulte beinge in this poincte the same vvith the Papistes hath the same Censure off writers inueighing againste this vnaduised imitacion That which is saide that if any patron off calling is to be followed our sauiour Christes owghte is a grosse begging of that in controuersie and then apparantly refuted in that our Sauiour Christe gaue newe names in his ordination sente forth two by two commaunded they should cary no weapon c. which can haue no place in our ordinacions Where I alledged that the reason was not one in thes wordes and in the wordes off the supper in that the minister doth not commaund that the bread be the body but saith yt is he answereth nothing Tract 3. and 4. according to the D. That all ordinarie Ministeries are annexed to a certein place THe A. in heaping vp certein differences betwene the office off an Apostle and Pastor answereth nothing to the matter Yff this be true which is set downe that they be like in this that a certein church is to a pastor or a minister vvhich the twelfth place was then amongest the Apostels the reason off the Adm. is mainteined For then as it was not lawfull for them to haue proceeded vnto a newe election if Iudas had not fallen from his ministerie so it is not lawfull to ordeine Pastors so longe as the place is full likewise if the Apostels would not vndertake any election but where they had the light and guide off the worde off God to shewe them the way not onely what manner a one but when he should be chosen muche lesse is it lawefull for the Bishoppes The first off thes being so cleare as the A. durst not plainly denie he doth notwithstanding pushe at priuely saying that Paul and Barnabas were added aboue the nombre off twelue But he should haue knowen that they were added by the Lorde and not by the church where he should haue shewed that the Apostels c. chose the thirtenth Apostle And we denie not but the Lorde may nowe if yt seme good vnto him choose some Minister which hath no certein place That which he obiecteth off Epaphroditus c. to be Apostels suche as we speake off is an absurd begging off that which is in question Where against the second point he saith that there is no suche thing in the Election off the Pastors as that in their election the scripture should be fulfilled c. allthoughe there be not so particular a worde as off chusinge one into Iudas place yet there is a certein rule in obedience whereoff the scripture is daily fulfylled And so falleth also his other exception which supposeth that off one example we make a generall rule Considering that we craue no further helpe off that example then the same was compassed by the worde off god The A. grauntinge the distinction off ordinarie and extraordinarie Ministeries and yet denying that it can be warranted by the scriptures poursueth his former traine off shrincking the scriptures Seinge yt followeth thereuppon that some truthe in Diuinitie cannot be warranted by the worde off god The question moued off the Elders is out off place the answer whereunto shal be differred vnto the proper treatise The absurd speaches which he hath here and in the next Diuision off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes come to be examined in the answer to his third chap. Heere first he trifleth with his reader whilest he supposeth that I ground the function off Elders vpon the 4. off the Ephes and that Iesteme that place a perfect rule of Ecclesiasticall functions when as not onely I haue no syllable sounding that way but haue declared the contrarie in that by a long discourse in the question off the Archebishop I haue shewed that that place is onely of the Ministeries occupied in the worde That which he speaketh heere off ouerseing shepherdes and watchmen belongeth to the 6. Diuision where yt is repeated That off one shepherd hauing many flockes belongeth to the question off hauing many benefices Yt remaineth to mainteine that part off the Diuision which setteth downe the Doctor off the church as a seuerall member from a Pastor Which may appeare by that the Apostle placeth them both to the Romanes and Ephes as diuers beside that the giftes differing whereby those functions are executed and there being apt to teache and therfore meet for the office off a Doctor which haue no grace in exhortacion or mouing the affections off the hearers and therefore not so fit to be Pastors yt must followe that the functions be diuers And where the Ans opposeth vnto vs the iudgement off one or twoo it is easye to shewe not onely moe authorities off priuate men but the vse off the Elder churches euen from the Apostels time Epecially in Alexandria where the distinction off the Bishop and Doctor off the church is so often obserued by the ecclesiasticall story also the coustome continued in cathedrall churches as they are called wherefrom time to time beside the Bishop hathe bene a reader And if thes were not distinguished thē must it needes follow which in an other place the A. denieth that there were ordinarily two Bishops in one church considering that beside the Elders and him which they commonly called the bishopp there was also a Doctor Nether ought it to be any hinderance to this distinction that Saint Paul coupleth the Pastor and Doctor together where as he sundred the rest that goe before by this worde Some For the coniunction dothe not couple them in signification but maketh them onely couples off the liberalitie off Christe towardes his church Especially considering that bothe this coniunction And is oftentimes a note to couple seuerall members off one diuision and the Apostel would rather
when I added they were argumentes drawne off the nature off thinges wherunto the Ministers are likened and are for the moste part vsed by the holy gost himselfe I preuented that obiection wherunto the S. saithe nothing But if they proue nothing because they were similitudes then his answers to ouerthrowe them being bare similitudes and in thinges wherein they be compared moste vnlike are insufficient The rest off the second section off this diuision which is almoste a whole syde ys perteining to the question off Residence and off hauing twoo benefices Vnto thes argumentes which I vsed as hovve they should knovv his voice vvhen they can not heare yt acknovvledge him vvhen they can not knovv him follovve him vvhen they can not see him goe before or hovve he should heale their diseases vvhen he can not possibly knovve them he answereth not a worde That S. Paul in commaunding to appoint Elders throwghe euery citye ment euery companie off the faithfull rysing vnto a nombre cōuenient to meet in one assemblie yt is manifest by the place off Saint Luke where yt is saide that elders were ordeined thorowghout euery congregation Wherunto albeit the Ans could say nothing yet in pressing the word cytie he sheweth his good will. Vnto this yt may be added that the scripture vseth oftentimes for shortnes sake by a cytye to comprehend as well townes and villages as the great cities For where Saint Matthew hath citie or towne S. Luke hath citie onely and in diuerse places off the tenth of Saint Matth. 9 and 10. off Luke the precepts gyuen off the Apostels behauiour in the cities are necessarily vnderstanded off other places Likewise that both M. Beza and Erasmus reformed herein the ould translatour changing his translation off citie by citie as that which attained not fully to the meaninge off the Apostle into a more generall speach off tovvne by tovvne This shall yet better appeare in the 3. cha 8. Tract where it shal be shewed howe the institution off God is that a Bishop shoulde be not off a diocese such as ours or prouince but off a particular church Which treatise I would haue drawne hyther as vnto the proper place but that these places are so intangled with the question off the Dominion off the Bishop that I could not without too great trouble off the reader seuer yt Where he saithe that Saint Paul commaunding to appoint Ministers to certein places did not thereby forbid Titus to make Ministers hauing no certeine place he should vnderstand that S. Paul knewe he had to doo with one which had learned well that lesson off the lawe off God Thovv shalt onely doo that vvhich I cōmaund the. And it is shamefull iniurie doon to Titus once to thincke that he made kindes off Ministeries whereof he had no commission by the Apostle The rest is nothing but a manifest begging off that which is in question Where I alledged the councell off Calcedon that none shoulde be ordeined losely but vnto some speciall congregation the D. being at a bay and hauing no place to escape commeth vpon me vvith open mouth and will beare the reader in hand that I haue falsified the Councell and why forsooth becawse I haue left out these wordes Or in the place off Martyrs buriall or in monasterie I left them out in deed because we haue no vse off them Howbeit what syllable is there here which helpeth him or in all the canon which he hath set downe That the councell men◠not that a man must off necessity be ordeined to a certein place but that he should haue some stay off liuing is directly contrary to the councells wordes which expresseth the first plainly and off the later speaketh nor a word The reasons vsed haue not so much as any sense and are drawen first from the filthie puddle off Popish diuinity that there be eccesiasticall ministeries withowt cure and places not neding any pastorall charge wheras if those monasteries c. were lawfull assemblies euery ecclesiasticall ministery was as necessary for them as for other Afterward they are drawne from a shameles corruption off the councels wordes by sworne ennemies off all good order in the church which to ouerthrowe a plaine meaning haue interpreted vvithovvt hauing some title withowt hauing some possession or liuing And that I haue set downe the true meaning off this councell may easely appeare by an other which forbad this wandring from citie to citie For Theodoret reprehending Eusebius bishop off Nicomedia for leauing his owne church to be bishop in an other alledgeth a canon wherby yt was ordeined that none ether bishop or elder should goe frō citie to citie Wherby appeareth they had all certein places Yea the D. Denis shall giue testymony vnto vs in this behalf whose wordes be vve haue appoincted to euery elder his proper parish and church yeard and ordeine that euery one kepe his ovvne right so that none enter into the boundes off an other parish but euery one contēt him self vvith his ovven and so gouerne the church cōmitted vnto him that he may giue account c. But that this shameful facing off the D. may be manifest I will set downe Caluins iudgement off this canon wherby shall better appeare who hath vsed most faith herein he or I. Speaking against the Popish making off ministers he saith But it vvas ordeined in the councell off Calcedon that there should be no absolute ordeining off ministers that is to say onles there vvere a place assigned vvhere the ordeined might exercise his charge Here is the same sense and exposition off the councell which I haue followed as full in euery point now let vs heare owt off what schoole the D. exposition commeth He addeth a litle after But our Romish maisters vvhich thincke nothing to be cared for but the belly fyrst interprete a title a sufficient reuenue vvherby he may be able to liue vvhether left off his freindes or by some benefice Therfore ordeining a priest or Deacon if he able to liue they giue him the degree not regarding vvhere he should exercise his ministery But vvho vvill euer admit that the litle vvhich the councell requireth is a yerely reuenue to mainteine himselfe vvith And after shewing other fraudes wherby they haue deluded other councells which cōfirmed this he addeth is yt not alvvaies absurd to ordein an elder to vvhom there is no place appointed wherby appeareth not onely Calu. iudgement off this question but how impudent a corruption off the councell he estemeth this which the D. so greatly alloweth The councell off Vrbane owght to make the D. blush and the corruptions which he to so small pourpose chargeth his booke with cause it to speake so lowde that the very deafe eares owght to heare For this diuinity off the later popery which he mainteineth being condemned off the former hath therby a brand of corruptiō wherby it may be knowen Consydering that popery geue still from euill to
then will he conclude of an ynch an ell off a week a moneth off a moneth half a yeare and off a case off necessitie make an ordinary licence when S. Paul will haue him which entreth into this warfare off ministry to vnwrap him self off all occasions which may drawe him from yt being already entred he will much lesse suffer that he should ether feek new occasions off absence or take all that are offered Our Sauiour Christ not suffring those whom he called to this worke to goe bury their dead and giue the farewell vnto those off their howse declared sufficiently that they owght to be very vrgent cawses which should drawe the mynister off the word from the charge committed vnto him And when his loue towardes God must be moten by feeding off his flocke committed vnto his charge his long and often voluntary absence must needes proue a small loue in him towardes the lord Which reason being alledged is altogether vnanswered This rare absence and that vppon vrgent cawse may appeare a so by the practise of the church The Councell off Mens decreing that the Bishop vpon sickenes or some other vrgent cause off absence not able to preach should haue some euery sonday and other festdayes to preach in his steed declareth that the vse off the church did nether suffer the bishop to be away but vpon great cawse and that not so much as one holy day withowt a preaching minister to supply his place Augustine saieth that he vvas not absent frō the church of Hippo but cōpelled by sickenes Zuinglius putting difference betweene an Apostel and Pastor saieth that he that doth the office off a Pastor is alvvaies in the povver of the church ouer vvhich he is set and neuer goeth from it Vppon which both testimonies off the scripture and practise off the church yt appeareth how to haue a deputy owght not to be as the D. would haue it an accoustomed thing but rare and vpon vrgent causes Where before he alledgeth for profe off a deputy that there is no shepherd which hath not a boy or a man to supply his absence he owght to vnderstand that our Sauiour Christ is that master shephherd and therefore he being but a seruant can no more set ones his charge then one seruant discharge him self vppon an other Beside what sheepmaister is there of so smal housbandry which will be content that his stipend should be mangled and a portion giuen vnto an hyreling for a monethly or quarterly ouersight off his flocke suffer the shepherd to enioy the rest yt may well be for the poursprofit off the shepherd but it can not be but to the great scare off the sheep considering that not onely the hyred can not by any likelyhood haue that care ouer the flocke which the proper pastor hath but also that all this disputacion tendeth hether that they may haue a reading or other in sufficient substitute which as the shepherdes boy or rather eurr content with a locke or twoo will leaue Maister Person the maister shepherd the rest off the fleese For such is their fidelity that where as in times past the preistes are commaunded to beare the arck vpon their owne shoulders so they should feed their flockes them selues they are not onely content to shift yt from their owne shoulders but as the foolish and idle preistes in committing yt to such vnstilfull gouernours they lay yt vpon a cart hale yt with oxen not with the aduenture but with certeine euent of an ouerthrow Although herein I speak too fauorably off the greatest nombre off them which doo not bestowe so muche coste as a new cart and a draft off oxen come to For they haue learned their howsebandry rather off him which teacheth that alvvaies it standeth a man in least vvhich may be doon by a poore asse And if this carting off the church of God were sent home to our popish Philisthins from whence yt came the kitchen fyre being thereby well abbated this disputation for adeputy would be well cooled For an able man would either for conscience or honesties sake kepe him selfe from this hyrelingship I say consciēce because amongest other corruptions he can not auoide the crime off Simony as they call yt whylest to obteine a place he is content to part stakes with the Pastor Honesty whylest all not seruill minded will rather choose to be free then vnder the yoke off an other mannes seruice His second questiō whether the flocke be not in like daunger in the Pastors absence with leaue as withowt is altogether from the pourpose when it is no lawfull for him nether with leaue nor without leaue to be away with daunger off his flocke His third where I finde in scripture that the Pastor owght to haue leaue off his parish is answered in that I shewed that the Pastors are belonging to their churches and are their seruantes which he altogether passeth by His laste asketh how he cā in his absence haue an able deputy seing he may not be admitted to the ministery which hath not a certeine flocke As though in suche necessitie for so small a time the supply may not be made by the Pastors hard by which is also answer to that he obiecteth pag. 249. Vnto the next diuis I answer not Vpon that many parishes may be ioined in one and fix townes in Fraunce as he saith are committed vnto one Pastor he concludeth that one Pastor may haue diuers flockes which is vnworthy any answer As if a thowsand sheep in one pasture were not easelier and with more cōmoditie tended then three in three sheepgates For as towching the preaching off the word and administring the Sacramentes vnto diuers townes assembled into one bodie vff a church the labour is almoste all one in ten and ten hundred The residue off the charge being commen with him vnto the rest off the elders may be especially in such necessities borne owt by increasing their numbre according to the compas off the churches territorie Yt is also vntrue that he affirmeth I haue saide that the numbre or distance off place is all one And yt is inconuenient that ether a greater numbre be assembled into the bodie off one particular church then can be at once tawght off one mouth or that the numbre should be taken owt off townes farther remoued from the places off the churches resort then that they may haue conuenient accesse Likewise yt is vntrue which he saith off six townes to one Pastor in Fraunce For although one church be assembled owt off diuers townes yet it falleth owt that the least part off those townes perteineth vnto the church and those fewe meet together in one place to receiue the nourriture prouided for them off the Lord by the hand off their Pastor To that alledged that the Pastor if he vvill haue many flockes should content him selff vvith that stipend off them all vvhich
about An. 266. had no authoritie but was a poore Bishop vnder persequnting Emperours And if the Emperours had been Christian then as they were heathen yet how cometh yt to passe he doth not vnderstand that in going about to make men belieue that the Bishop off Rome at that tyme had authoritye to limite dioceses parishes c. in the church off God he setteth vpp a Pope and armeth him with that authoritie which he neuer came vnto foure hundreth yeares after Finally if this Monke were off any credite he is directly against him euen in this cawse For off the wordes before alledged yt is cleare that he appointed vnto euery elder a seuerall parish vvherin he should keepe him selfe which is against the pluralitie off benefices that he so greatly striueth for He asketh where it appeareth that the scripture deuided nationall churches into congregations and parishes I answer that off that the scripture willeth elders to be chosen for euery competent congregation and particular bodie off church and also that thes assemblies as all other thinges in the church should be with the greatest conuenience so that as Ierusalem had commendation in hauing her building knit closely together euen so the church as much as may be conueniently should haue her partes not onely in a spirituall bond off charitie but in neighbourhood of dwellinges well trussed one with an other yt is apparant that although the scriture doth not mention parishes nor precisely define off the compasse yet yt giueth the rule wherby they are squared owt For when a parish well bounded is nothing els but a nomber of those families which dwelling neere together may haue a commodious resort and the assemblies off the churches owght so to be ranged as they may be neerest the place off their spirituall refection yt followeth that the scripture hathe after a sort gyuen the churches tarriers and that a parish well bounded for the spirituall intercommuning hath testimonie owt off the word off God. Where he asketh proofe off this that dioces is taken for a parish yt appeareth first that in the primitiue church bishops in steed that they are now off such a dioces were then of a parish afterward when they began to hooke into their possession moe churches then they were able to feed they were called bishoppes off dioceses ▪ yet the name parish was not quite worne owt but indifferently vsed for a dioces as appeareth by the councell of Ancyran where one translation hauing dioces thother hath parish And yt shall better appear in the 8. Tract that at the first there were dioceses off so narrow compas that diuers parishes in England may appear to be off greater circuit then they That the place off buriall mentioned off Euseb wat in the field may as I saied be gathered off the vse off the church which I haue noted in an other place That the churches of Christ had nether thē nor in the time that the D. imagineth any churchyardes ys manifest considering that then the temples wherunto the churchyardes were annexed were possessed off idolaters The answer to the incommodities off buriall in churchiardes that by that reason churches and other thinges must necessarily be remoued is a begging off that in question and otherwise insufficient For yt is in demaund wether it be conuenient and if it had been yet being not necessary it owght for such abuses to be taken away And beside the incommodities assigned it was as may appeare taken of the Papistes from the superstition off the heathen For Lycurgus made this law that men should burye in cyties and round about the temples Now residence being necessary and that principally for preaching off the word it appeareth how disordered a power yt is off the bishop off whose licence the pastor both chosen and ordeined must depend in a thing precisely commaunded to him by the Lord and for omitting wherof the thunderbolt of Gods course is from heauē throwen vpon him Therfore the chapter intitled Off licences to preach shall be heere in a word or two dispatched First the D. charged with false dealing in that he surmiseth of the Ad. as if one might preach withowt their approbation to whom yt apperteineth answereth their meaning is plaine belike he hath it by reuelation for in their wordes there is not a title sounding thar waies But he saith yt was their owne case which put from preaching would haue preached against the bishops will. Where leauing that to those that may haue knowledge therof I answer that he towcheth not the matter For both they speake ād my reply was of those which ordeined to preach the gospell are sent to their charges not able to doo their duties withowt further licence as if a man charged to doo a thing should be bound hand and foot of him that charged hym and layed at his mercy whether he wil lose him Wherunto he answeretth not a word Thirdly he laieth to my charge that I had not answered towching that the Adm. would haue preached against the bishops will a word wheroff is not found but onely in his latter book then which what greater dotage can there be as yf there could be default off answer whera there was no such thing obiected In that I saied vvithovvt their approbation to vvhom yt apperteineth he excepteth that there is an equiuocation yt being not set downe by whom the election should be made Where beside that yt was apparant before by a whole treatise what we think in that behalf and owt of place to speake off it heere his exception is too childish For to whomsoeuer thelection doth appertein this case remaineth the same whether it be vnlawfull to ordein one to preach the word and yet to keepe it still in his power whether he shall doo yt or no. Off this sort is that he saith I suppose no man may preach which hath not certein charge and onely in yt Wheroff although I make not heere one word off mention yet howsoeuer yt be taken this case remaineth one Where I shewed that the bishop could not alledge for defense that he vvhom he sendeth prisoner to his church is ether heritik or schismatick or suspected for that he ovvght not then to haue admitted hym vnto that ministery he vseth open falsehood For he saith I suppose that hypocrites schismatikes c. may be knowē forthwith or suspected may be by and by remoued Wheras first I haue not a word off Hypocrites and haue before manifestly tawght the contrary off that he heere forgeth that the church can not procede against Hypocrites that is those whose sinnes are not discouered and that God onely hath reserued their iudgement vnto him self Then where I shewe that those which are to be admitted to the ministery owgt to be free from suspicion off heresy or schisme the D. answereth as if I had saied that those which haue already bene in the ministery were vpon suspicion off heresy to be desposed Which what
God could not cheare him vp againe by preaching wherunto they are as fit as an oxe to flie Witnes the D. him selfe which addeth that our ignorant ministers may by study so profit in knowledge that they may be able priuately to exhort Where yt is merueilons to see how he fometh owt their shame whom he hath taken to his defense Yf he had saied that in time with study they might be able to preach yet forsomuche as while that grasse groweth the people perish his answer had bene vntollerable Now gyuing no further hope then that in time they will be able priuately to admonish which euery Christian owght to doo he hath gyuen sentence off them that they will neuer be able to doo the worcke off Pastors wheroff they beare the name that is that they will neuer be but idoles What they doo by reading is after to be seen The place of Osea which resecteth from the ministery those that haue not knâ—â—â—â—â—ge off the lawe becawse it failed a litle in the quotation he hath let quietly goe by Where he gyueth me the lie for that I ascribe vnto him this argument there must be reading in the church therfore ministers that can doo nothing but reade his wordes be thes I see not how yow can condemne reading ministers seing reading is necessary in the church let the reader iudge what a hard forehead he hath Where I concluded theruppon that euery one vvhich coulde breake bread distribute the cup c. should be a meet minister all see that it followeth vpon the former reason And this which the D. counteth a iest he is not able to answer in his greatest earnest His answer to the place off S. Iames is friuolous For his reason why the place off â— Luke commaunding the 12. disciples to preach can not be applied vnto our Ministers is for that other thinges ioyned with yt were temporall And this is his reason before that the example off the Apostels elections is to be followed wholy or not at all Therfore the place off S. Iames did fully confute his answer considering that the anointing of the sick coupled with praier by the elders off the church being temporall thother notwithstanding is perpetuall And this shift that that place was spoken off all ministers and thother off S Luke off the 12. onely will not couer his shame For what wil he say vnto the rules gyuen as the same tyme that they should be symple in their ministery as doues vvise as serpentes take heed off men are they not spoken to the ministers now becawse they were spoken then to the 12. onely What vnto that our Sauiour Christ commaunded to goe into all the world teaching and baptizing in the name off the Father Sonne and Holy Ghost which place shaketh hym owt of both his ragges for that was spoken to the eleuen Apostels onely and the coÌ„maundement off going into all the world was temporall Yet I thincke he dare not deny but the commaundement off baptizing in the name off Father Sonne and holy Ghost is perpetuall and belonging vnto all Pastors Wheruppon followeth that the place off S. Luke standeth still to whip owt vnpreaching Pastors In the pag. 483. this is handled againe Where I alledge that they be vnchangeable lavves 〈◊〉 God that he should not be minister off the church vvhich can not teach nor Minister Sacramentes vvhich can not preach the D. leauing the first which was the very cause shppeth to the second which is handled in an other Tract as that wherin his prouision was better Howbeit because I would not the D. cause should leese her aduantage by his ouersight I confesse that Chrysostomes testimonie may seeme to perteine to the cause in hand forasmuch as he maketh a kinde off preisthood not able to teach To whom with this exception that I will not be pressed with his autoritie further then he bringeth reason off the word off God I answer that as the word preisthood is often times in ecclesiasticall writers taken for the pastor and cheif minister off the church off which our present question is so sometime yt is taken for the elders ioined as helpers in gouernement vnto the pastor and whiche had not as shall appeare to doo doythe the preaching off the word and administration off the Sacramentes As when yt is saied that the Bishop chosen by Gods ordinance and the Elders ioyned vvith hym in the priestly honour According vnto which sense Chrysostomes saying maketh nothing to this question For we deny not but that he may be an elder and coÌ„sequently as they terme him a preist assistant to the pastor which is not able to preach but that he may be the pastor we vtterly deny So remaineth onely against vs in Chrysost testimonie that he may baptize that can not preach which with the rest perteining to that head shal god willing be in their proper place answered As for the 5. 1. Tim. towching the Elders which rule well in the treatise off the Presbytery yt shall appeare that it is not vnderstanded off these caterpillers where he requireth warrant off the word of God for that I confesse the church may appoint for a reader onely some graue man he confessing yt lawfull as well as I for answer to his request I refer him to that disputation where I haue proued that it is not lawfull to place any thing in the church not iustified by the word That the cavvse off this fevvnes off able ministers is partly the thrusting ovvt off those vvhich are fyt to teach partly that others fyt are not sought after it is manifest Whether they owght to be sought after and not to offer them selues I leaue to be estemed off that which is written in this point in the booke intituled off the discipline c. Whether they be off right thrust owt I leaue to be iudged off the discours off these controuersies whether they which are not yet entred haue iust cawse to forbeare I leaue to be considered off the disputation before and off that of the Archebishop Archedeacons Commissaries c. which followeth For if it fall owt that the calling be vnlawfull wherby the entrance should be made and the autoritie of the church tirantes such that being entred one can not walke in the way off his ministery prescribed off the lord then it must followe that although those that are entred hauing testimony off their conscience that they serue the lorde and keping themselues from the pollutions may poursue their course yet thes can not withowt shipwracke off conscience I speake off ordinary callinges euen in the very port or euer they launche forth commit them selues to this viage Where he saith there want no prouokinges to drawe them to the mynistery euen that is an other cawse off this scarcety for the church-liuinges so vnequally deuided that some fewe being druncken the moste hunger discourage from that study For the parent which followeth the sente off
I will ad others Wheras a Bishop may be ordeined by two or three other Bishops tharchbishop must be ordeined by all the Bishops off the prouince ether present or at the least consenting Now seing the ordination is off the forme off their ministerie and thes formall causes be diuers yt followeth that thes offices must needes be diuers And that the substantiall and essentiall forme of a Bishop is differente from that off tharchbishop yt is plaine also by that they are members off one diuision and therfore off necessitie differ in the substantiall forme as a man differeth from a brute beast not in circumstance but in that he is off an other nature And when the D. graunteth the effectes and worckes off tharchbishop to be diuers from those off the Bishop the one ruling thother obeing and that by oth gyuen and taken it seemeth very straunge that he should deny that it is a new and diuers office from those appointed in the scripture Furthermore when as the subiectes off the Bishop and Archbishop be diuers where about they be occupied the one hauing one church or to speake according to his sense one Diocese thother a whole prouince still it must fall owt that they are diuers offices Last off all forasmuch as offices in the scripture are perpetuall and thoffice off an Archbishop may be taken away by men by his owne confession yt must follow that they be diuers offices And if he looke when I should conclude a new minisâ—â—â—e beside that yt is all new which is straunge and straunge which is not coÌ„maunded by the word of God yt comming as shall appeare some hundreth yeares after the Apostles times whose onely autoritie is able to make the grey heares and antiquitie of a thing be reuereÌ„ced it followeth that this word new if he nourish any misterie in it is also truly verified of the ministerie of tharchbishop Timothe and Tite shall neuer be proued to haue had any such autoritie ouer the rest and if they had yet yt falleth not on tharchbishops side seing they were no Bishops but Euangelistes as hath appeared When the church appointed one Bishop to rule ouer all Ministers Elders and Deacons in the same church yt did appoint a new ministerie and all thes reasons almost before browght against the newnes off tharchbishops functions returne vpon the head of that institution And if there be any hould in the Ans word he hath otherwhere affirmed that thoffice off a Bishop is superior vnto the office off a Pastor yf so it is not the same But why dare not the D. aswell confesse that the church may erect a new mynisterie seing he affirmeth flatly as much in effect for to proue an Archbishop he alledgeth that beside those in the scripture the church may appoint both names and offices now I would gladly know first whether when the church appointeth an office that was neuer before a new office or no and then whether a new office be a new mynysterye And yff to erect vpp an office which was neuer be to erect a new office and a new office be a new mynysterie it must follow that the churche in erecting an other office then is set forth in scripture erecteth a new ministerie The Ans is afraied to confesse a new ministerie and not afraied to confesse a new office off which superstition I would gladly vnderstand some reason Now where he would haue the care off our Sauiour ouer his church in time off the gospel to consist in that he hath set downe the doctrine more plainly in all poinctes then vnder the law this being a doctrine off saluacion vnder the law that there should be ministers in the church yt followeth by his owne saying that he hath set yt downe more plainly in all pointes now then vnder the law Therfore also this point how many orders and degrees off ministerie owght to be considering that that was precisely defined in the law is more narrowly bounded in the gospel Thus he defending more in deed then in wordes he dare set downe is almost at continuall battaile with himself and hath scarce at any tyme his proofes and propositions of one measure But that I follow not the chase off wordes leauing his meaning where 〈◊〉 any light footing of it to be found that which he would say and wherwith his pourpose is vpholden can not stand that albeit our Sauiour hath tawght the doctrine more plainly now then vnder the lawe yet it followeth not that he hath performed that in the gouernement off the church If this be his meaning as I saied there is great iniurie doon vnto the church great dishonor vnto our Sauiour Christ For he hauing at all tymes doon the office not onely off a Doctor in teaching but also off a king in prescribing the manner and forme off gouernement vnto yt howmuch soeuer he is saied to haue doon lesse in appointing the outward gouernement off his church now then vnder the law so muche is both he robbed off that part off his kingly office which God his heauenly Father annointed hym vnto and the church spoiled of the fruict which should come vnto her therby Yt ys therfore a most certein doctrine that in all thinges perteining to the kingdom of heauen whether in matter off doctrine or gouernment the Lord hath in as great specialtie marcked them owt as ether before or vnder the law In cyuill matters and thinges perteining to this present life he hath I graunt vsed a greater particularytie with them then amongest vs framing lawes according to the qualitie of that people and coontrey wherin the leauing of vs at greater libertie ys so far from prouing the like libertie in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen that they rather proue a streighter bond For euen as when the Lord would haue his fauour more appeare by temporall blessinges off this life towardes the people vnder the law then towardes vs he gaue also polityke lawes most exactly wherby they might both most easely come into and most stedfastly remaine in possessyon off those earthly benfites euen so at this tyme wherin he would not haue his fauour so much esteemed by those owtward commodities is required that as his care in prescribing lawes for that pourpose hath somewhat fallen in leauing them to mennes coÌ„sultations which may be deceiued so his care for conduit and gouernement of the life to come should if it were possible rise in leauing lesse to the order off men then in times past And the D. should ether haue cut off quite that part off the Kingly office off Christ which consisteth in owtward gouernement off his church or els haue let yt had the full course Now when he graunteth that beside the doctrine off saluacion he entred into the description off outward gouernement off the church saying beside the doctrine he ordeined there should be not onely fit ministers to publish it but officers to gouerne the people in godlines as if in beginning
off that description he declared his care ouer his church and not â—â— making an end off it he signifieth that he declared lesse care For if to describe the three offices of gouernemeÌ„t Bishop Deacon and Elder were an argument off his loue and care towardes his church had not also the adding to off the fourth yf any were bene a token off the same But if as the Ans would make vs belieue the Lord declared his great care and loue more towardes his church in leauing that office at her arbitrement then yt should also follow that in appointing no more but the Deacon and Elder which gouerneth onely yea in appointing no officer at all he should haue shewed him self more carefull and louing Which if yt be absurd that he saith wherof this followeth is not to be admitted Againe wheras he graunteth that our Sauiour Christ hath gone throwgh with the doctrine I would ask off him why in that point he hath made so cleane worck Whatsoeuer he answer here and what cawses soeuer he assigne he can not deny but one cawse is the blindnes of men to see and their peruersnes of iudgement in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen Which if it be true then I would gladly know off him how they come to be so egleeyed in the matter off discipline and gouernemeÌ„t which are such bussardes in the sight off the doctrine and how their eyes be opened here which were shut there As if we were in lesse perill off error in inuenting the Discipline off the church then we should haue bene in deuising the doctrine or as thowgh it were an easier matter to finde a rule wherby the whole church ioyntly then wherby euery one in his seuerall might be directed And if part of this gouernemeÌ„t and order being propounded part also is left owt why rather were not the greater offices and off more weight expressed leauing the smaller to the stamp off mans head for who knoweth not but it is harder to institute a ministerie for the gouernement off a whole prouince then for a companie coÌ„prised within the territoire of a furlong to institute a ministerie for gouernment and commandement of both people and Bishops too then for the people onely So that off the twoo vertues required in all sufficient dispensation faithfulnes and wisdome and which were both most fully in our S. Christ by the Ans account there was nether For in that he is made to haue described some part off the gouernement and not all he is argued of vnfaithfulnes in that he is made to haue propounded the les and easier leauing owt greater and more difficult his wisdome is reproched Nether may the D. thinck here to escape with the distinction off externall thinges variable by circumstances which els where he alledgeth For first I haue shewed that yt is most vntrue that all externall thinges be variable TheÌ„ he must remeÌ„ber that he making his Archbishops office to begin in the Apostles tymes hath drawen owt his continuance vnto this tyme all which he hath as he yet doth accounted off him as a head piller of the church off god Now if he be such a profitable officer both in the purest tyme off the church and the corrupt both in persequution and peace vnder a Christian Magistrate and vnder a TyraÌ„t yt is cleare that this ys an office not variable by circumstance off times but which our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles might haue aswell established in perpetuitie as he did any off those vnchangeable ministeries Bishops Deacons c. In calling yt a seruile tie to haue the whole gouernement at the prescript off Gods word he forgetteth that the greatest libertie and freedom off Christians is to serue the Lord according to his reuealed will and in all thinges to hang vppon his mouth But that he addeth yt ys to be tied vnto the lettre as in the law fyrst is Papisticall and Anabaptisticall proceeding from a grosse ouersight and want of vnderstanding off the Apostles meaning wheÌ„ he speaketh of the lettre of the law For wheras the Apostle setteth agaynst the lettre of the law that is to say the bare coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t doo this c. the worcking off the spirit gyuen by promesse wherby the law in part is obteined off vs and made healthfull which otherwise bringeth death the Answ with the Papistes and Anabaptistes opposeth the lettre vnto that not writteÌ„ nor commaunded in scripture When in that sense which he taketh lettre if there were any such we are as streightly and precisely bound vnto the lettre as euer were the Iewes The examples brought as exceptions against the certein and commaunded mynisterie are such for the most part as might seem to haue bene brought to set the D. cawse in the mockerie and lawghter of all men For yt is well knowen that the name off a Scribe was no name off any certein order and particular kinde off ministerie but a generall name gyuen vnto the skilfull in the law of god For although we read of some to whom yt ys gyuen which beside the ordinary function wrote something yet yt may be easely shewed that they had that name not off writing but rather becawse they were expert in the law off God written Which as yt may be proued by diuers autorities off the scripture so yt doth by the autoritie off our Sauiour Christ manifestly appeare And when our Sauiour speaking off the tymes of the gospell saith he will send Scribes and yet neuer heard tell off that there was any certein order or particular function off Scribes vnder the gospell yt ys cleare that vnder title off Scribe there was neuer vnderstanded any seuerall degree off ministerie The same is to be aswered vnto the name of Doctor of law that yt was a generall name where with they were named which were learned or taken for learned in the law of god Which may appeare for that whom S. Math. calleth a a lawier or Doctor of the law S. Marck calleth a Scribe To change the Capitain off the Temple into an Ecclesiasticall officer needeth a very strong exorcisme The Temple of Ierusalem being the strongest place in the whole citie and by reason off the height commaunding the whole cytie round about was by all likelihood taken of the Romans to be their fort or Cytadell Considering that Herod had also builded a fort there called Antonia where they placing their garrisons did the easelier and with greater securitie holde the Iewes in that bondage which they sought at euery occasion to shake off Herunto leade the prophane mindes of the Romans which beside the safetie they sowght that waies tooke pleasure also in prophaning the temple off the Lord ad also the practise off our daies which may serue for confirmacion herof But howsoeuer the matter be this appeareth plainly that that office was not ecclesiasticall but both a cyuill and warlike function For when S. Iohn beside the seruantes off the Scribes
as in other places hath seduced yow For this was taken owt off Pighius and obiected off Harding againste the bishop off Salisbury vnto whom alledging for the proofe therof the Epistles off Pope Gregorie the bishop answereth he could not refuse that vvhich vvas neuer offered him And the trwth is that not onely there is no such offer to be founde in that Councell but thinges plainly repugnant For yt saith expressely the bishop off Constantinople shall haue equall preuiledges vvith Rome And the same Councell gyueth the same honor throwghowt vnto the bishop off Constantinople which yt gaue the bishop off Rome sauing that becawse yt was the firste seate off the Empire yt is content that yt shall haue the firste place The same also may appeare by the second prouinciall Councell off Constantinople where this is repeated owt off the Calcedon Councell Now seing this councell made the Bishop of Constantinople equall in priuiledges and honor with the Bishop off Rome yt muste needes be a meere fable off Pope Gregory the Papistes and our D. that this Councell offred vnto the Bishop off Constantinople the title off vniuersall Bishop Thus with my vnskilfullnes I am constrained to make vp the gap the D. laieth open vnto the Papistes Where he saith Constantinople required nothing but according to the 6. canon off the Councell of Nice he greatly erreth For firste the priuiledges of the church of Antioche in that councel were cleane dashed and the whole state off the church being deuided into the rule off fowre that is the bishop off Rome Constantinople Alexandria and Ierusalem the churches were browght into myserable seruitude which may appeare by the Councell off Constantinople which decreeing this afterward autoriseth the canon off that matter by the councell off Calcedon Secondly wheras the Councell of Nice reserued to euery prouince her priuiledges and honor wherof this was parte as appearethe by other decrees that the bishops of euery prouince should choose their metrapolitane he off Constantinople toke a way thes priuileges from the greateste parte off the churches throw owght the whole worlde cōsidering that he had by this councell th appointing of the Metrapolitans off parte of Europe and of all Asia sauing a litle corner vvherin they had pinned vp the bishop off Ierusalem Thirdly yt is cleare that not onely at the time of the Nicene Councell he had no suche large domynion but his Iurisdiction long after was shut vp vvithin the bandes off Thracia onely withowt hauing any thing to doo ether in Pontus or Asia as appeareth clearly both by Socrates and by a former councell off Constantinople Thus may the Answ great skill for the shew wherof he hath thus ranged from the cawse easely appeare Now let yt be considered what is answered vnto the argument wherby vppon the wordes of the councell off Carthage the bishop of the fyrste seat should not be called the cheife off the Preistes or the high preiste or any such thing I concluded the title off the Archhishop forbidden He saith that was made agaynste the bishop off Rome and the meaning off that Councell was that no bishop should be called by the name off vniuersall bishop which is firste directly againste that he hath said before off the title off the vniuersall bishop offred in the Councell off Calcedon vnto the bishop of Rome For if Rome desired not that title yea refused it offered then there was no such cause off the decree off the African Councells to bridle it in the title off vniuersall bishop Secondly this exposition bringeth manifeste force to the councells wordes For if the name of an Archbishop be not sufficiently forbidden by thes wordes Prince off the preistes which in the councells language confounding preiste and bishop is all one with the name off an Archbishop yet it is forbidden by those wordes which folow no bishop shall be called by any such name And if that be not sufficient 10 stop the waie againste suche trifling cauils as thes yet the wordes that follow he shall onely be called the bishop of the firste seate are so plaine that he muste haue a very hard forhead that will goe abowte to owtface them Moreouer Gratian addeth as a parte off this canon but vniuersall bishop let not the bishop off Rome himselfe be called Wherby is manifest how vaine the D. shifte is For onles he had in the former wordes mente all other bishops there can be no place for thes no not the bishop off Rome and onles the councell had ment some other thing then vniuersall bishop by thes wordes cheife preiste ther is no place for thes vniuersall bishop For if wee should folow the D. exposition wee should make the councell speak after this sorte the bishop off Rome shall not be called vniuersall bishop but vniuersall bishop no not the bishop off Rome him selfe shal be called Which when yt ys absurd wee muste needee hold that this Councell prouided not onely againste the ambitiō of the bishop off Rome but off all other and not againste the puffe of the name of vniuersall bishop onely but againste the smokeie title off Archbishop Patriarch c. Furthermore in another councell which confirmeth the canons off this it appeareth plainly that that canon was made especially for the African churches for the prouinces off Numidia Mauritania and Tripolis For Aurelius and Musonius presidents off that Councell in their Epistle to the Bishop off those prouinces charge them that they had not kept those canons and shew how some couered them selues by ignorance off them And not onely the councell off Carthage holden somewhat more then 400. yeares after Christe forbiddeth thes loftie titles but the councell off Carthage wherat Cyprian was within 200. and od years after Christe is found off the same iudgement vvith this that no bishop should be called bishop of bishops So that to auoid this argument the Answ muste be compelled to say that the bishop of Rome claimed the title off vniuersall bishop within about 200. and 50. yeares after Christe which althowghe he dare much I thincke he dare not answer Againe he may vnderstande that he hath the bishop for partie For he alledging owt off Origine that the mynisters in the very time off persequution vvhileste he liued passed the owtrage off worldly Princes addeth that for that cawse this canon of the Councell of Carthage vvhich I haue set downe was made Gyuing plainly to vnderstand that it was to kill the yche off ambition in the whole order off ministerie not as he beareth vs in hand onely in respecte off one person And if there be any credit to be gyuen vnto Gregory there were nighe 600. yeares at the leaste run owt or euer the bishop there made claime vnto this title For he saith no bishop off Rome vntill his time had taken to him self that title off singularitie or vvould euer consent to be called by so prophane a name off vniuersall
a simple exception against the Councell off Vrbane that it is not to be found in the tome off Councells especially when I cite it but for a storie witnes seing there are some Councells of more weight owt off that booke then some in yt When Sozome tieth the archdeacon to the church of Alexandria as well as the Elders and Deacons onles he wll say that the Elders and Deacons were not tied vnto that church he must cōfesse that the archdeacon was Which if it were not cleare by Sozome is manifest by the wordes of Ierome and Gregory before recited Where he saith we haue no archdeacon not tied to one church seing he is called the archdeacon off such a shire and hath his office not in one but a hundred churches I leaue it to the readers Iudgement with what boldnes he determineth to owtface all truth Likewise I leaue to his iudgement whether Ieromes wordes which to declare the manner off the bishops election bringeth for example the choise of the archdeacō by the Deacōs be cleare to proue that I haue alledged thē for and how friuolous he is in his shiftes as thowgh it were so strange a thing for the soldiers to choose their Capitaine and how he taketh it for graunted that it is not materiall who chose the archdeacon which is before confuted and last of all how well he concludeth that forasmuch as a bishop is aboue a Deacon therfore he is aboue the whole colledge off Deacons Likewise how soundly he hath answered vnto the 2. next sections which to auoide the subiection off the archdeacon vnto the minister is driuen to denie that an Archdeacon is a Deacon which notwithstanding affirmeth that an Archbishop is a bishop yt being also before shewed that Gregorie calleth an archdeacon Deacon and being more clearer then the day that as the archelder was both an Elder and vnder any bishop so the Archdeacon was a Deacon and of right vnder any Elder Considering that Ierome speaketh of that Deacon at whose testimonie an Elder was made which one may easely vnderstand to haue bene an archdeacon I leaue the thinges before handled off Residence on a certein place for euery minister here is question onely what likelihood our Deanes haue with the ould Which becawse the D. will not perceiue I must be compelled to shew Augustines wodes to him better First therfore the Deanes were monkes for often monkes one was Deane and consequently not ministers when it is manifest by stories that the ould monkes were not onely no ministers of the word but not so much as within any order ecclesiasticall Secondly it was a reproche for those monkes and Deanes to be in any citie or great towne seing that a citie was a prison vnto monkes and agreed vnto them as drie lād vnto fish Thirdly their profession was to labour and to gaine their liuing by hand nether was it lawfull for them otherwise to liue so that he that did not labour was esteemed as a theefe beside that their diet was very homely and grosse Hetherto I think there is nothing like with our Deanes Now where the Answ saith the Deanes were set ouer the other 9. Monkes and so in their rule resemble ours he forgetteth that their rule was but in prouision for meate and playing the part off their Cater wheroff they made account vnto the Father Of whom there was no cawse the D. should make mention here but that he finding no deanly autoritie in this poore Deane would faine make it owt in the father whilest he would make the reader belieue that the Father and Deane were all one Where he saith thes were godly societies which Augustine speaketh off I will not denie but that Ierome and August with others commend them as it is not hard to shew that discommend them but that they were so what shew soeuer they bore being instituted besides the warrant off the word I vtterly denie Wherin I will refer my self to the treatises off diuers learned mē which haue handled that matter that I be not compelled here to set vpō this vermin which the Ans raiseth againe from hell to help the office off the Deane it is enough to haue shewed that beside the name and institution withowt warrant of Gods word they haue nothing in commen As for the vnspeakable profit he saith they bring vnto the church it is but his coustome with riotous and ouerrunning wordes to supply the beggerie of his reasons and yt is confuted in an other place There remaineth one testimonie perteining to this question off tharchbishop taken owt of Beza wherby the Ans would proue thes names good and holy Wherunto before I answer to th end yt may appeare that the D. doth but hunt after wordes contrary to mennes constant practise and manifest writinges I am compelled here to open what Bezaes iudgement is off them First I haue shewed before how he holdeth that the name of dominion wheroff the Archbishop and archdeacon be made doth not agree vnto the ministerie Secondly in an other place he so far misliketh that any should be called archbishop that he saith the order vvhich for policie sake vvas taken in the auncient church that one onely amongest the Elders of euery churche should haue the name off bishop or president vvas the first foundacion vvhich the deuill laied off tyrannie in the churche After it came to Metrapolitanes vvhich they call archbishops vvhich distinction had notvvithstanding a glorious pretence that Synodes might be the easelier called and some order kept in gouernement of thinges Then to fovver Patriarches from fovver to tvvo from tvvo to one vvhich is the Pope In the end for conclusion he addeth behold vvhat it is to goe a naile breadeth from the vvord off God. Thirdly that the auncient fathers established amongest the bishops Metropolitanes he confesseth a good intent but forsomuch as that horrible tirannie vvhich proceded off them did ruine the churches and novv hindereth the reformacion off them vve vvill saith he content our selues vvith the coustome and order off the Apostles c. But what will the D. say to that he saith Archbishops ād Primates are a shadovv and image of the policie of Rome vvhich came in by litle and litle that he calleth them pety tyrantes in respect off the Pope that althovvgh the names be neuer so auncient yet it ovvght to haue bene inquired vvhether it vvere lavvfull to bring them into the church and if it vvere yet vvhether it be expedient novv in this regeneration off the gospell to set vp a fresh or to abolishe them that he saith it is an other reason of a Bishop Pastor Deacon Elder as those vvhich are instituted by the holy gost that he is so far frō allowing Archbishops that our kinde of bishops he calleth counterfaict bishops reliques of poperie such as vvill bring in Epicurisme that all vvhich vvil the churches safe must take heede of that pestilence that
but vpon gainsaying And in that Boniface which wrote vnto Zachary had appointed those three bishops in small parishes and townes all vnderstand that yt was no new thing then to haue bishops in such places But because he closethe his eyes and will not see thinges set before him at leaste let him grope them The false Damasus and verie Antichriste writing of this matter inueiethe vehemently againste the appointinge off Bishops in villages which he calleth countrey bishops And yt appeareth plainly in that Epistle that they had the selfe same autoritie in all thinges which citie Bishops had There he saith also that yt was forbidden that there shoulde be any bishop ether in small cytie or in village or Castell leste the name and autoritie of a bishop should waxe vile And therfore commaundeth that those bishops off villages being disgraded off their Bishoprickes shoulde be throwne downe to the order off preisthoode Heere the D. maie vnderstande that euen in the time off Antichriste this order off euerie churche hauing her bishop was not so abolished but that there were remnantes off it in diuers places and some which mainteined the libertie wherin God had sed them againste that owtrage off Satan who becawse he woulde make off bishops yong Princes and saw that euerie parishe was not hable to mainteine that pompe wente abowte with robberie off the reste to lifte vp the heade off one Heroff yt may be seene what cawse the D. hathe to charge me with the falsifiyng of the Popes wordes and how his habilite to defende the Popes decree doothe not answer his desire As for the reasons I browght to proue that the placingâ— off bishops in villages and small cyties coulde no more bringe them in contempte then the shininge of the sonne or falling off the raine in villages as vvell as in cyties breedeth contempte off those benefites or the name or autoritie of father gyuen to poore men as vvell as riche maketh that ordinance off God nothing set by he answereth not a worde Where I further alledged the foresight and wisdome of God which shoulde receiue a greate wound if in instituting for euery churche a Bishop he shoulde not haue foreseen this inconuenience which the Ans vppon the Popes autoritie meinteineth he askethe when and where I haue I truste shewed him now bothe althowghe he if he had ether vnderstoode or remembred what he wrote before twise or thrise when with Ierome he propoundeth vnto vs that Bishop and elder were all one by Gods worde he should not haue falleÌ„ into this extreme boldenes of denying euery thing which is enemie vnto his vnaduised assertions For yf yt be the institution off God that euerie churche shoulde haue a teaching elder and that elder according to Ieromes saying alowed off him were a bishop yt muste needes folowe that to haue a bishop in euerie churche ys the institution of god And because the D. boweth so casely vnder the autoritie of men that he estemeth it the beste proofe let him vnderstande that this was the iudgemeÌ„t off twoo of the moste famous meÌ„ which our lande browght forth thes manie yeares And the same also executed for the testimonie off the truth off god wheroff one of them amongest other thinges suffred also for this cause nowe in hande a The sixte Article which M. Barnes was condemned for is this I vvill neuer belieue nor can neuer belieue that one man maie by the lavve off God be bishop off tvvoo or three cyties yea off an vvhole contrey for that yt is contrary to the doctrine of S. Paul vvhich vvriting vnto Titus commaundeth that he should ordeine a bishop in euery tovvne prouing that by the worde elder the Apostell meaneth a bishop M. Hooper shewing that one man may not haue two lyuinges addeth but this is clavv me and I vvill clavv the. If the bishops permitted not their priestes to haue 2. benefices it may fortune the priestes vvould likevvise say the bishop should be bishop but of one citie And in deed so it should be and till magistrates bring theÌ„ to that point it shal he as possible to heare a bishop vvade godly and symply thorovvgh the scripture in all case off religioÌ„ as to driue a camell thorovvgh the eie of a nedle A great pitie it is to see hovv far the office off a bishop is degenerated from the originall in the scripture It vvas not so in the beginning vvhen bishops vvere at the best as the Epistle to Tite testifieth that vvilled him to ordeine in euerie citie of Crete a bishop And in case there vvere such loue in them novv as vvas then tovvardes the people they vvould say them selues there vvere more to doo for the best off them in one cytie then he could doo They knovv the primitiue church had no such bishops vntill the time off Siluester the first c. Off thes thinges partly and partly of that which shall be hereafter God willing spoken I leaue yt to be esteemed off the indifferente reader with how small ether knowledge or conscience the D. hathe affirmed that yt can nether be shewed by scripture nor confirmed by anie ecclesiasticall writer or practise off the primitiue churche that ether euery churche shoulde haue her bishop or that there should be bishops in villages and small Cyties Thother off the two questions remaineth whether yt can be shewed by scripture and by examples off the primatiue churche â–ª that there were in one churche moe bishops then one which we might in parte haue bene eased off if the answ hauing fallen owte with the trwth were not likewise falleÌ„ owte with him selfe For he approuing off the testimonie off Ierome which affirmeth elders and Bishops all one and that the elders off a churche chose one amoÌ„geste them which onely kepte the name of bishop dothe withall necessarily affirme that before the time that this ordinance was established there were diuers bishops in one church And in saying the word bishop is not commenly vsed but for him that in degree is aboue the rest he at vnawares confesseth that there were diuers bishops in some churches althowgh not commenly But becawse he hath a facultie in denying and affirming withowte shewing any reason and that his worde is no bonde to tie him with all when yt maketh againste him some thinge also muste be spoken towching this matter And seing I haue shewed that he is by S. Paules determination a Bishop which is apâ—e to teache and to exhorte to conuince false doctrine and reproue corrupte maners and that the Ans can not denie but one suche alwaies is not sufficiente for some churches especially where the commoditie of assemblies is so good that euery daie the worde off good ys to be preached yt can not be denied but that there bothe maie and owght to be moe bishops in a churche muche more in a cytie then one And that this was the institution off God it appearethe by the practise of the churches in
Bishop off the paris hes there which when by common construction yt maye be aswell referred vnto Alexandria onely or vnto the reste off Egypte onely or to bothe together yt was to greate boldnes not onely to gather this sense of Eusebius but also to bringe him in so speaking But that the worde there can not be referred vnto the reste off Aegypte but onely hathe relation vnto the parishes off Alexandria and that as there are no suche wordes as yow ascribe vnto Eusebius so there can be no suche sense as yow Imagin yt may easely and clearly be vnderstanded off that before and after For if nether the bishops of Alexandria before Demetrius nor those after him vnto the times wherin Cyprian and Cornelius liued had that Iurisdiction ouer Egipt which yow Imagin then by all reasonable vnderstanding yt muste be estemed that this worde there owght to be restreined vnto Alexandria Abilius the thirde Bishop off Alexandria after Marke had bene in that churche about the yeare of our Lorde a 100. Eusebius affirmeth to haue bene bishop off the parishe off Alexandria but of the other partes of Egypt maketh no mētion He saith the same off Primus succeding him in that bishoprick off Alexandria the same off Iustus which succeded Primus the same of Eumenes which succeded him the same off an other Marke which succeded him the same of Celadion which succeded him the same off Agrippa whō also he calleth Agripinus which succeded him And where speaking off all the former he saide they vvere bishops off the Parishe off Alexandria off Iuliane which succeded Agripinus he saith he gouerned the churches in or at Alexandria vttering the same thinge by diuers wordes Vnto this Iuliane succeded Demetrius off whom is saide as before hathe bene shewed yea off those which succeded Demetrius as famous and as renoumed as he there is no suche thinge For off receiued the ministerie vvhich vvas at Alexandria likewise of Dionisius which succeded Heracles that he receiued the gouernement of the churches vvhich vvere at Alexandria which Dionysius liued abowte the times off our Cyprian and Cornelius which we haue presently in hande When therfore the Bishops of Alexandria so famous are not red to haue had bishoply autoritie off anie Prouince but are conteined within the circuit off one citie vntill the time off Cyprian and Cornelius yt appeareth not onely that the D. hathe bene abused in thes wordes off Eusebius but that this owght to be an other marke to know that nether Cyprian nor Cornelius had any Bishoplicke autoritie at all further then the cyties wherin their churches were And withall appeareth the cawse why Euseb did no more particularly restreine the bishoprick off Demetrius vnto Alexandria namely for that he had so often spoken before of the precinctes of that bishoprick The next diu hath nothing worth answer being onely that which I in few wordes subscribed vnto Sauing this that Cyprian was Pupianus bishop which maketh nether whot nor kolde vnto this question seing that Pupianus was no bishop but one that sometime had bene off Cyprians churche But of answer to my argument that forasmuche as Cyprian condemneth the pride of Pupian for that his deede vvas like as if one should be appointed bishop of a bishop or iudge of iudge there is no newes wheras if yt were not a proude thinge to be bishop of a bishop c. Cypr. did with no good aduise set owte the faulte of Pupian by those wordes And that Cyprian complaineth not off any wronge doone to him as archbishop which the Ans afraied to affirme would haue his reader thinck but onely as he was Bishop yt appeareth manifestly by diuers places in that he denieth that he pressed him vvith further autoritie then that vvhich all bishops had by succession vnto the Apostels That Cyprian did not obiecte this to appointe hym selfe bishop of a bishop as a prowde name but as a prowde deede is a poore exception for if yt were a prowde deede to exercise the office off bishop ouer a bishop yt muste be also a proude name to be called the bishop off a bishop The Answ wordes carie no meaning with them to cōclude that which this cawse requireth For what meaneth this one bishop off a Prouince had no autoritie ouer another but were equall what is this to my reason which is that forsomuche as the godly vvriters proue the equalitie off the bishop off Rome vvith other bishops for that they called one another fellovves and brethren the bishops off dioceses and metropolitanes calling one an other fellovv bishop fellovv in office brother c doo therby declare that there vvas none vvhich ruled ouer an other For onles the reason be firme in the one yt is not good in the other But he answereth further Cyprian in calling the bishops off his Prouince fellow bishops and brethren declared therby the function to be all one So may the Papistes answer that the Bishop off Rome called the Bishops his fellowes and brethren becawse they had the same function and not in that for pollicie sake they were not subiect vnto him But as that so this is an absurd answer The Godly writers vse not this reason to proue that other bishops exercised the same ministerie off the word and Sacramentes with the bishop of Rome which the Pope him self confesseth but to proue that they were not vnder but off the same autoritie with him which he denieth The next answer Cyprian in calling them fellow bishops declareth his humble spirit is I doubt not althowgh I can not presently note the place another buckler off the Papistes againste this reason As if true humilitie did hinder any to take that honour which his lawfull office ether in churche or commen wealth doth put vpon him He further answereth that S. Peter calling the Bishops and Pastors to whom he wrote fellow Elders was notwithstanding higher in degree then they I graunt but I denie that therfore S. Peter could exercise dominion ouer them When it is saied that fellow bishop importeth equalitie yt is not ment so much for honour as for equalitie in autoritie that one hath ouer an other For in honour the bishop off Rome had some preeminence ouer the Alexandrine c. yt being graunted him to haue the first seat in meetinges which notwithstanding had no dominion Therfore this maketh directly against the dominion off Archbishops For if Peter in degree off ministrie aboue the pastors in calling them fellow elders renounced dominion ouer them how much more owght they forbeare to vse dominion ouer those with whom they carie the same yoke and degree off ministrie To that owt off Cyprian none of thē toke him self bishop off bishops he answereth he meaneth the title off vniuersall bishop which how absurdly it is spoken may appeare by that a before spoken off the Africane Councell His second answer is a pinch at Cyprians autoritie for that thes wordes were
vttered off him in that Councell where an error was decreed wherof hs was cheif autor Where he might with as good right reiect all that euer Cypriā wrote For albeit this were spokē in that Councell yet yt no more perteineth nor hathe no more acquaintance with that error then this that we are iustified by faithe alone Yf he woulde conclude that Cyprians autoritie is no sufficiente proofe considering that being a man he might erre in this pointe as he did in another it is that we willingly graunte and therfore call and crie vpon the D. as loude as we can that the whole cause may be tried by the scripture from which he flieth as Darckenes before the face off the light His thirde is by thes wordes none taketh on hym to be the bishop off bishops he mente that one bishop shoulde not tyrannically rule ouer another which is vntrew for Cypr. addeth that as an either thinge likewise forbidden So that where he saith none dothe ether make him selfe bishop off bishops or bynde his fellovves by tyrannicall feare the D. off twoo sentences maketh one and Cyprians or he expoundethe that is to say But doeth he not see how still he ministreth weapons vnto the Papistes by this friuolous answer for vnto the godly learned writers alledging this place to proue that the bishops off Rome haue no autoritie ouer other bishops the Papistes may answer with the D. that all that is mente off tyrannicall autoritie Fouthly he saith thes wordes Euery bishop hathe ftee libertie and free iudgment off his ovvne povver are not mente off iurisdiction but of iudgement and opinion As if there were les daunger in letting a bishop holde what opinion he thincketh good withowt controlement of an other bishop then in letting him gouerne his churche as him semeth best withowte the same controlement So that herin the D. flying from the smoke falleth into the fire The vanitie off which answer appeareth also by that in an other place where he saith there is but one bishopricke vvheroff euery bishop holdeth one part vvholy fully in all respectes Likewise in an other place he saith he holdeth his bishoprick off Christ vvho is the cheif bishop And most plainly it is confuted by that I haue alledged owt off Cyprian Where in expresse wordes he referreth this freedome off power which euery Bishop hath not as the D. to the bishops opinion but vnto the gouernement off his church Where for confirmacion off thes answers he saith otherwise a bishop should be exempted from all controlement off Synodes and other as well as of archbishops the answer is easy For althowgh Cyprian say no one Bishop can be iudged off an other bishop yet he denieth not but he may be iudged off the church And althowgh no one bishop haue autoritie ouer him yet a Councell off bishops may correct him And that this is one off those iudgementes off Christ Cyprian ment off and that in those wordes he doth not reserue the iudgement off the bishop offending vnto the day of the general iudgemēt may be shewed by that he saith Christ set thē bishops in their charges As therfore Cyprian calleth the placing off a bishop in his charge by the churche by the elders theroff and the next bishops the placing of Christ so he meaneth that iudgement giuen against a bishop offending by the church and Synodes is the iudgement of Christ That owt off Cyprian wherin the weight off the argument lyeth euery Bishop muste rule his ovvne flock him self as he that shall make account off his deed vnto the Lord he passeth by After to the wordes off Cyprian that nether he nor his fellovves vsed compulsion tovvardes any appointed any lavv to any seing that euery one set ouer the church hathe in gouernement theroff free disposition of his owne will werof he shall gyue accoumpte vnto the lorde he saith I left owte that which gyueth the solution and therupō according to his coustome picketh a quarell to translate the whole sentence Yet nether sheweth one word nor can shew lefte owte to make for him against me Onely he saithe vndowtedly Cyprian in saing he would not deale with other bishops c. meaneth those churches and bishops which he had nothing to doo with which is very straunge seing he hath before made him archbishop almost ouerall the world After he saith he would not haue suffered them if they had bene off his owne charge which is a grosse begging off that in question for yt is debated whether he had any bishops vnder his charge And what manner off interpretacion is this vve do violence to none nor appointe lavves to none that is to none in other Prouinces and euery bishop hathe povver of the gouernment of of his ovvne churche that is euery bishop owte off Cyprians prouince what a kold saying should this be that nether he nor any of his fellowes vsed violence towardes bishops off other Prouinces With whom they hauing so small intercommuning could scarce vse violence if they would Or to say they appointed no lawes to vvhom they had no coulor to gyue any And as this interprepretacion hauing lien in the Ans rack is pulled owt of all the ioyntes so that it is vtterly false may appeare by that before alledged owt off the Councell off Carthage Where wordes of like effect are vttered by Cyprian vnto the bishops off the same Prouince he was of Last of all becawse I may not haue that credite which the Ans to vnderstand this place off Cyprian yet I trust he vvill belieue Musculus Who of this place and others concludeth that vvhen Cyprian vvrote he did neuer so much as think off the povver off Patriarches off Metropolitanes off the bishop off Rome but esteemed that all bishops ovvght to haue like care and povver euery one in his ovvne church So beside this testimonie that Cyprians priest was nether Patriarch nor Metropolitane he hathe also that he was bishop of one church which is that I haue affirmed For the autoritie vvhich the archbishops and bishops haue ▪ there is an other place yt is sufficient here to shew that they had no iurisdiction one ouer an other in Cyprians times That owt off Cyprian towching ministers sacrificing is before answered To Cyprian saying the vnitie off the church is interteined by consent off bishops one vvith an other the D. answereth they agree neuer the worse by hauing a superior aboue them Albeit they agree neuer the worse yet if they agree neuer the better he owght as an vnprofitable tree which occupieth place in the lordes orchard be rooted owt Althowgh it shal God willing appeare that the Archbishops office is the knife which cut the cordes off vnitie which both was and otherwise might haue bene mainteined amongest the bishops The first reason why tharchbishop is necessarie is because there may be one to assemble them together As thowgh that was not doon before that office was
heard off or it could not be doon conueniently without an archbishop by appointing one amongest them at euery off their Synodes who should haue autoritie to call the Synode following Which is likewise answer to his next reason of putting them in minde off their duties Al this may be seeÌ„ not onely by practise of reformed churches in diuers places Fraunce especially where Synodes are assembled from all partes of the realme twise a yeare notwithstanding al that dominioÌ„ of one minister ouer an other pulled vp by the rotes but also in the primitiue church by that recited of one Malchion Who being a simple Elder so far from the estate of aâ—â— Archbishop that he was not Bishop was president in the Councell off Antioch assembled against Samosatenus heresie If a simple Elder might gouerne the Bishops yt shall be to great shame for them not to suffer them selues to be gouerned for the time by one of their owne order withowt making an archbishop Wherby appeareth how vntollerable the D. is which condemneth this order as inconuenient confused disordered Where he saith it can not be but a great help that one haue cheif care of prescruacion of vnitie the office off an archbishop can put no further care for the church vpon any then the Lord putteth on hym by vertue off the office off bishop For if the gouernement off his owne church take not vp all his thowghtes and cares whatsoeuer is left is due vnto other churches by ordinance off the lord Forsomuche therfore as euery bishop in the Prouince by calling off God careth to the vttermost of his power for the churches wheruÌ„to he is associated and tharchbishop can doo no more then what lieth in his power it followeth that there can be no calling off men which can ad vnto his care for this vnitie If he saie that this institucion off men causeth the care coÌ„maunded off god the rather performed firste yt is vntrue for althowghe the ordinances off men maie gyue a prick to the doynge off thinges owtwarde yet they are not hable to moue the conscieÌ„ce and inwarde affections wheroff the care he speaketh off is a fruicte Then yf it had suche force as to awake his care yet that shoulde be with no aduantage vnto the churches of the Prounce forsomuche as that woulde giue occasion vnto other bishops off diminishing theirs whilest they phansie with them selues a streighter bonde to prouide for the vnitie off the churche in the archebishop then in them selues And so the care by this meanes reuiued in one shoulde die in a great nomber where he addeth as yt is in other societies yt hathe bene shewed that our Sauiour Christ forbad that rule off one minister ouer an other in the churche which maie be vsed in the common wealth Althowghe I haue answered further vnto this pointe where those societies are particularly specified Where he asketh what if the bishops were deuided amoÌ„gest them sel ues who should compounde their controuersies He hathe his answer that he may call them together in whose hande the laste Synode lefte that autoritie And what yf the archbishop him selfe draw owte off his trace and be ether deuided from all the bishops or from the better and sounder parte standing this goodly order who shall range him And when the D. saithe that tharchbishop can not deale for appeasing off controuersies but by persuasion and that composition which is made by intreatie off parties maie be made conueniently by equals what needethe there any superior archbishop How vntruly the Ans writeth off the archbishops and bishops autoritie in our church to hyde the hornes off their immoderate power both in this diuis and that before the eyes and eares off all men are witnes But as he serueth tharchbishops and bishops in this defense so for recompense off his paines he maketh them waite vpon him and hauing now set them on horseback by and by for shift of answer he maketh them light and goe a foote with their fellowes Cyprian saith the cause muste be heard vvhere the faulte vvas committed the D. that is to be vnderstanded of the Prouince or diocese as if it were not hearde within the prouince and diocese when yt is hearde within that particular churche where the controuersy groweth Therfore to make good his answer thus he must interprete thes wordes there vvhere the faulte vvas committed it shall be heard whersoeuer in the Prouince or diocese the faulte is committed yt must be hearde at the archbishops or bishops palace The firste interpretacion is coÌ„trarie to the proprietie of speache For seing matter rising in a particular church is saide properly to rise there where yt was doone and can not but improperly and by figure be saide to rise in the Prouince or diocese yt is manifest that Cyprian is made withowte any necessitie to sprake improperly As for the nexte interpretacion yt is cleane contrary to Cyprians meaning For when he will haue the matter there handled where they may haue bothe accusers and vvitnes that can be by no meanes vnderstoode off the Archbishops or bishops consistory For the parties haue not their witnesses aÌ„d accusers there whether they are coÌ„streined with greaate charges and longe iorneis to transporte them Where he saith Cyprian speaketh againste those which wente from Africk into Italie I preuented that shewing the reason is generall and seruing aswell againste those which will pull their causes vnto their hearing which dwell a 100. or 200. miles off them as againste those which carie them from one contrey to an other wherunto he answereth nothing For if there shoulde be a bare opposition betwene Africke and Rome and not rather betweene the place where the coÌ„trouersie riseth and that far of as lawfull as yt ys for him to say Cyprian meaneth not a particular churche where the cawse riseth but the diocese or Prouince so lawfull ys yt for me to saie that he meaneth nether diocese nor prouince but onely that quarter which makethe the fourth parte of the worlde So that by this meanes the cause rising in Mauritania maie be iudged in Aethiopia which is more then 10. times farther a sonder theÌ„ Rome froÌ„ Carthage And consequently yt should follow that any controuersy rising in the churche off Englande may be determined at Rome being a parte off Europe as at the place by his answer where the cause rose Where he saith there ys no Prouince with vs where bothe the accusers and witnesses may not be browght I graunt if they come and leaue their busines at home yf they die not by the way if the parties be able to beare their charges And with thes conditions they may be browght further And by this exposition off the Ans the triall made in passing the seas which the councell off Africk after forbad may be a great deale more commodious then the archbishops For they which dwell by the seaside may both with more ease and lesse charges haue end of their matters in
priest and bishop for the same Howbeit because the autor him selfe ys aliue and knoweth best what he meaneth I am well content the meaning off his wordes be such as him self shall beste like off Out off M Fox he can not finde so much as a fig leafe and therfore telleth vs how he saith Rome vvas a patriarchall church and therfofore not vnlike but Carthage was also how by a dioces is ment a Prouince and forsomuch as he allowed an archbishop yt is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbishop The onely rehersall is too long a confutation In the end are recited at large the wordes of M. Philpot. which attributing vnto Cyprian a dioces declareth that he esteemed him a bishop not an archbishop For that he calleth him the Nouatians cheif Bishop yt is far from the estate of an archbishop He might well call him so in respect of his singular learning and pietie or in that he was bishop off the cheifest place in Afrik And the same may be saied off Cornelius being Patriarch For otherwise in autoritie he could not be seing him self confesseth that patriarches were appointed at the councell off Nice about 150. years after Albeit the truth is that the appointement of those 4. patriarchall seates was not by the Councell off Nice but off Calcedon Nether doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch therfore he was Prince off many bishops onles he will say that becawse Tertullian calleth Philosophers Patriarches off Heretikes and Ierome Tacianus the Patriarch of Encratites therfore Philosophers and Tacianus bore dominion ouer the Heretikes or Encratites He might be so called in that he was cheif father of the church off Rome where he executed his office as Ierome witnesseth off the Iewes Rabbines to haue bene called Patriarches yet they had no gouernmēt or rule but in the seuerall Synagogues where they taught Now it appeareth the Ans can not bring so much as one seely testimony to proue this place of Cyprian vnderstood of tharchbishops or metropolitanes autoritie besides that alledged of Muscu flatly denying that Cyp. thowght of any Archbis or Metrop but onely of euery Bishop in his owne church I will ad the testimony of Bucer who affirmeth the very same that I. Shewing against the Pope that Christ onely is vniuersall bishop he assigneth this reason For he is present vvith his sheepe and vvith euery of them and feedeth thē vntill the end of the vvorlde and for this cavvse putteth ministers in his place and that to euery church her seuerall minister For he did not onely gyue Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes and ministers off many churches once but gyueth also daily vnto euery church off his her ministers Pastors and Doctors and both instructeth and leadeth them vvith his spirit that they may serue their ministries him self onely gyuing increase vnto their planting and vvatering For vnto euery one off them he hath appointed a proper portion off the flock as S. Cyprian testified by vvarrant off tradition off Christ and his Apostles and that vvith this condition and povver that euery one together vvith his presbyterie and Clergie should rule his vvhole flock as one vvhich should make account off his ovvne act not vnto the Pope off Rome but to the lord vvhich is the Prince of Pastors Amōgest vvhō no man might appoint him self bishop of bishops or iudge an other or be iudged of an other vvherupon the iudgemēt of the bishop belonged vnto Synodes not vnto one bishop as long as the policie off the church gyuen by thapostels stoode Therfore bishops vvere equall not onely in povver of the keies by vvhich fable Latomus vvould elude the place of Cyprian but also in vse and degree off povver and iurisdiction In the end shutting vp all that he had saied off the metropolitanes he saith This is the sentence off the catholike church concerning the povver of bishopes as vvell off Rome as others grounded on the vvord off God approued by canons obserued off all true bishops Wherin Bucer affirmeth that this portion off the flock which Cyprian speaketh off is the charge off euery minister in his seuerall church and that by institution off Christ and his Apostels no minister or bishop can haue an other bishop to iudge him but that if there be a fault in him it is to be iudged by Synodes Thus I leaue to the readers iudgement how it was more easie for the Ans to say the godliest and learnedest writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbishop then to shew it when it cometh to proofe And althowgh he fall flat vnder the bourden vndertaken in his first booke yet as thowgh he had not half his lode he hath charged him self a fresh For where before he saied the godliest and learnedest expound this of an archbishop now he saith all learned writers expound it as he doth It were well there were some reasonable proportion betwene the toung and the hand for it can not be but a fowle fault to be so long tounged and so short handed Before I come to Ieromes testimonie the order off tymes for the better vnderstanding off this cause requireth that those bothe autorities and examples be answered which the Answerer hath alledged bothe before owte off the Councell off Nice and Antioche and after pa. 470. c. The nexte to the times off Cyprian is Dionysius Alexandrinus which saith he had vnder his iurisdictiō all the churches in Pentapolis as Athanasius testifieth in a certeine epistle Apolog 2. First there ys no suche thinge in all that booke nor in no epistle conteined therin The place he meaneth of is in an epistle he wrote concerning Dionysius iudgement againste the Arian heresie Then yt ys not saide as he reporteth that all the churches of Pentapolis were vnder his iurisdiction but onely that he had care of those churches or as the translators words be the care of those churches apperteined vnto him Which what litle or no weighte they haue to proue archiepiscopall iurisdictiō shall be seene when we come to the place where the sense of this to haue care ys discussed In the meane time yt is to be obserued for better triall of this matter which I haue before noted owte of Eusebius that he succeded in the bishoprick off Alexandria vnto his predecessor withowte attributing vnto hym any further charge And when as Euseb declareth that he writing vnto the churches in Egipte wrote vnto them by the bare name of the brethren vvhich vvere in Aegypte withowte any title betokening anie bonde or knot off mynisterie towardes them and off the other parte writing vnto the churches in Alexandria intitleth that writing an exhortation vnto his flocke he declareth euidently that he estemed Alexandria his proper charge and that sauing that bothe in respecte Aegypte was his contrey and the peace of his owne churche was folded vp in the welfare of yt his care for Aegipte was generall as for other churches And the very testimonie
by that Beza writeth vpon thes wordes he gaue all these vvhich belieued in him this dignitie or prerogatiue that they should be called the children off God. Now what this dignitie and preeminence was may easely be seen by that the bishop of Rome hauing preeminence or dignitie ouer the bishop off Constantinopel Alexandria c. had nothing therby more then they sauing onely the first place in their meetinges Seing therfore thes wordes translated to haue power signifie nothing but to haue honour which consisted onely in hauing the highest place by thes wordes off the Councell groweth nothing to the Metropolitan but onely to sit in the highest place at meetinges This may also appeare by the same h Councell where yt is said that if there rise disorder in any churche vvhich is not compounded it ovvght to be decided at the prouinciall Councell which was therfore to be houlden twife euery yeare in which faultes vvere to be corrected not by the Metropolitane but by the bishops together And becawse the Councell here referreth vs to that accoustomed before yt is to be considered what that was so far as we haue testimonie The bishops assembled at Nice browght their quarrels one against an other and offred them to the Emperour which they would not haue doon at least so generally if there had bene any such order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan The Emperour likewise receiuing their bils and answering that it perteined not vnto him to decide those matters sendeth them not to their Metropolitanes to be iudged but adiourneth them to the iudgement off god Yet yf there had bene any suche autoritie ecclesiasticall off the Metropolitanes the Emperour as he was very religious in those obseruations would not by all likelihood haue failed in that Likewise writing ioyntly to Alexander bishop and Arius Elder off Alexandria amongeste other thinges he saith it vvas not meet they should rule so great a people being deuided amōge them selues Where it is to be obserued that howsoeuer thes wordes so great a people be taken whether for the churche off Alexandria or for all Agipt c. the Bishop gouerned not alone but by cōsent and aduise of the Elders of that church Then if the Ans will refer this gouernement to the whole countreis off Aegypt Lybia c. and take it in that signification he doth for bearing dominion and commaunding the rest not the bishop onely but euery Elder off Alexandria had commaundement not onely ouer the Elders but ouer the bishops them selues off other churches Which if it be absurd that whereoff it followeth must be likewise This is all that I finde the Nicene Councell gyueth to the Metropolitan aboue the rest how litle it is and how small a part off that the Answ presumeth let the reader iudge That he owght to be no bishop which is made withowt consent off his Metropolitan is a very seely prerogatiue seing yt was the order of the church in those times that all the bishops off the Prouince shoulde be at the making off a Bishop And as the election off the people was voide if the Metropolitane were not at it so was it also if there were not three bishops at the least present Let vs see now whether the practise of the Metropolitanship will fall owt any more fanourable for this pretended iurisdiction Athanasius foloweth on whom the D. woulde fasten this archbishopricke firste because Ischaras submitted him selfe vnto him by lettres As if euery one which hath offended an other doothe by his submission acknowledge him an archbishop whom he hathe offended and as if Ischaras owght not to haue doone as muche vnto any bishop in the Prouince yf he had belonged vnto his parishe as he did vnto that of Athanasius Secondly becawse Arsenius and those off his diocese wrote lettres off submission vnto Athanasius The print off the diocese is so deeply set in the D. heade that what soeuer he meeteth with he turnethe into yt For there is there no mention off diocese but off a citie As for the submission he maketh yt is not to Athanasius but vnto the ecclesiastisticall canons onely he acknowledgeth him Metropolitane and that withowt his sentence he will make no Ecclesiasticall decree perteining vnto the churche which we denie not For we confesse that there were then Metropolitanes and as Arsenius coulde not make anie decree to wching the whole churche in the prouince no more coulde Athanasius withowte Arsenius as hath bene before owt off the former booke declared But that he was subiecte vnto Athanasius there ys not a worde the cleane contrary is to be plainly seene For Arsenius in his fare well writeth thus vve and those vvith vs salute the vvhole companie off sacred men vvhich are in thy iurisdiction by which wordes he manifestly exempteth him selfe frō the iurisdiction off Athanasius Wherupon yt muste folowe that the office off Metropolitaneship in those daies implied no subiection nor autoritie to commaunde ouer other bishops in his prouince And Athanasius in calling the bishops there his fellovv ministres often times declareth in what place he had them not as subiects but as his fellowes And that the A. escape not with that Popishe shifte that Athanasius therby did declare his humilitie yt is to be seene in that booke that the other bishops doo more then half a dosen times call him their felovve mynister barely withowte other title Now if Athanasins not off right but off his greate humilitie called him self their felowe mynister yet the other bishops in so calling him when they were subiecte vnto him and at his commaundement are to be charged not only as voide off Christian humilitie but also as forgetfull euen off all commen ciuilitie and good manners That added off Athanasius visiting off Mariotes and the Prouinces there as they are called perteineth nothing vnto this question for there were no bishops in that place and what he did in that behalfe did not as Archbishop but as Bishop that territory belonging vnto Alexandria And not onely Archbishops but bishops yea Elders visited the parishes off other bishops As for that the parishes in the territory off Mariotes had neuer◠bishop but belonged vnto Athanasius beside that I haue shewed that corruptions had greatly preuailed at that time it is to be obserued that it is there put as a strange thing and vnwonted that one bishop should haue so large grownd For vnles that be the autors ende there was no cause why he shoulde haue vsed that kinde off speach Which may better appeare forsomuche as Socrates speaking off this storie interlaceth the same sentence when as speaking off the places off bishops els where he neuer mentioneth any such thing The canons off Arles Councell off that attributed vnto the Apostles and of Antioch follow The first hath nothing not graunted and serueth for filling onely The second supposed of the Apostles ys the same with that of Antioch That off
Antioch is first vnfaithfully translated after vntruly gathered vpon For where the Councell saith that the Bishop praesident in the Metropolitan citie should haue care of the Prouince because all men vvhich haue busines vse to come from all places to the Metropolitane cytie he hath pag. 332. turned the wordes off the Councell vpside downe putting in steed off because all men c. wherfore all men c. making that the effect which it maketh the cause and the cause which it maketh theffect The Coūcels meaning is that forsomuche as men doo vsually for other busines resort to the Metropolitane cytie therfore the bishop of it was most fit to whom controuersies should be browgt He translateth also for parish dioces and so in steed that the councell supposeth the bishop to haue vnder his charge often times beside those in the towne he dwelleth in certein villages which resort vnto his churche as in Hitchin and diuers other places with vs he to be sure to put in enowghe supposeth by his translation that the bishops had a diocese and their places beside If by diocese he meane suche as ours I would gladly knowe what those places were which the bishops had beside their dioceses when as in the largeste spred of bishops they were notwithstanding tethered within the compas off other dioceses Yf by it he meane a parishe suche as euery minister with vs is assigned vnto why vseth he diocese to deceiue the reader especially when the Councells wordes pulled him to the worde off paris he Yf he will excuse this later faulte and laie yt vpon the translatour of the Councels which turneth Parish Dioces he confirmeth at vnawares that which I saide that at the first a diocese and parishe were often confounded Howbeit that the Councels wordes can not beare that significacion as we take Dioces is before declared Vpon thes wordes he gathereth the hishops are subiecte vnto the metropolitane and that the councell willeth them to be so which is very vntrue for there is no worde in that canon that proueth subiection muche lesse expresseth As for the honor which they should giue him I haue shewed what it is owte off the Councell off Nice the care for other churches in the Prouince cometh after to be considered For the bringing off matters vnto him which they coulde not ende at home yt appeareth by diuers places that they were not browght to him to determin but onely to make relation off vnto the prouinciall councell and that he coulde ende no matter but which aduise off other Bishops in the same Prouince In the Africane Coūcell yt was decreed that if a bishop striuing vvith an other about the territories entred into them vvithovvt hauing resolutiō of the other bishops althovvgh he had the peoples consent and Metropolitanes letres he should leese his cause In the Councell of Sardis abowt the same time with that off Antioch the bishops call their Metropolitane brother and fellovv bishop What Lordship and dominion can be gathered off thes thinges I know not And that this was the first institution off Metropolitanes which I haue alledged and that I haue herin not straied from the meaning of the Councels may appeare by the testimonies off others which haue spoken off this matter Caluin saith they vvere instituted for preseruatiō onely of the policie and what that was he sheweth by the bishop the same in his owne churche which the Metropolitane in the Prouince That yt was as the office off a President in a Councell to propound matters togather the voices c and to put that in execution vvhich vvas decreed by the rest denying flatly that he had any dominion ouer the Elders off the same churche and affirming that he him self vvas subiect to the companie of the elders The same therfore by his iudgement must be the state off the Metropolitane towardes other Bishops Bucer saith there vvere certe in bishops assigned to the cheif seates vvheroff they had a singular care vvhich did not be haue themselues as bishops ouer the bishops off those dioceses but if any of them faulted admonished him as one brother doth an other as one fellovv and companion in office doth an other And if the bishop admonished ether did not or could not amend the fault he made relation of the vvhole matter vnto the Synode After he sheweth that at the first the excellencie and preeminence off the bishop off Rome Constantinople and Alexandria c. vvas not off povver and iurisdiction but of knovvledge zeale care and help of others vvhich those cheif bishops did so yeald vnto the churches that they left the vvhole right off the bishops office equall vvith that they thē selues executed vnto euery bishop Bullinger after he had proued all dominion primacie and maioritie forbidden by our Sauiour Christ vnto the minister saith From the beginning the Apostels and ministers off the churches vvhich folovved the rule off the Apostels gouerned their churches equally vvithovvte that one vvas preferred before an other which he offereth to proue by manie testimonies and aboute the councell off Nice and a litle before Metropolitanes by mans ordinance not to be contemned vvere receiued vvhich should as it vvere be presidentes vnto the reste or rather serue all the reste in calling Synodes And yt vvas very vvarely prouided that he should not be called the primate leste any man shoulde thinke that he vvas superior vnto other in povver but in order onely Wherin almoste all the poinctes off the Archbishop and Metropolitane debated betweene the Answ and vs are conteined For firste he denieth that there was any preferment of one minister aboue an other in the Apostles times Secondly he saith the office off the Metropolitane came in a litle before the Councell off Nice Thirdly that it was not lawfull for that metropolitane to be called primate Fourthly that he had no power ouer the reste but serued onely for keping of order in meetinges All which thinges we affirme and the D. denieth and that not withowte a triumphe As for that he saith this institution of man is not to be dispised it appeareth that he ment not to commend it but onely to signifie that if yt had remained in that simplicitie it might haue bene the easlier borne especially considering they haue no such order off Metropolitanes with them The B. off Salisbury vnto Harding obiecting that the primates had autoritie ouer inferior bishops answereth they had it by agreemēt and coustome but nether by Christ nor by Peter nor Paul nor by any right off Gods vvord Wherby not onely ys confirmed that whiche I propounded off my not variyng from the godly writers but also falleth the D. dreame that they were instituted by the Apostles Yea further appeareth that their institution with autoritie ouer other was vnlawfull as that which hath no manner warrant owt off the word off God. Hauing answered the Councells I returne vnto Ieromes place as yt is
set downe off the Ans He saith it is a poore refuge to discredite the autor I spared the autor casting part of the error vpoÌ„ the times wherin he liued which I proued corrupter and further from the truth left by thapostles by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with althowgh as towching the proofe off an archbishop or bishop suche as ours I am content the Ans set vp his credit as much as he will. He saith there is no difference betwene Cyprians bisbop and Ieromes Seing he will needes haue it so let one measure be off both and therby I trust shall appeare off that which I haue spoken before that Ieromes bishop is lower by heade and shoulders then they for whom his autoritie is houlden owt Howbeit if in Cyprians time the bishop onely had not the laying on of handes and ordeining him that was chosen to the ministrie by the church but the Elders and he did nothing in his church or parish but vvith aduise of the Elders theroff yt appeareth that Ieromes bishop althowgh differing onely from an other minister in ordeining Elders and Deacons had somwhat encroched vpon the boundes off the presbitery more then Cyprians Lastly he saith for the corruption off times this kinde of bishop was deuised I willingly giue testimonie vnto those gouernours or at least the most off them that they had a good meaning in that inuention off man but that it was remedy against the corruptions I deny And to the reasons before alledged for proofe therof let this be added that euen from the first day wherin this deuise was established the corruption in the church was not deminished but grew and got strenght by litle vntill the whole face of the earth was couered and the power off darcknes in the fulnes off Antichristes kingdome wholy setled Likewise that the first resistance by any setled church against that corruption was by those which abolished that deuise off man and receiued the order in the Apostels times towching the equalitie off ministers As the Bohemians Merindoles the churches in Germany and Geneua whose standerd bearers as partly hath appeareth and more hereafter shall fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops and archbishops The next diuis I leaue to the readers iudgement referring him to that answered in the beginning In the next as one whose forehead is more hard then Adamant he shameth not still to affirme that this manner off bishop and archbishop was in the Apostles time notwithstanding the autor owt off whom he draweth his proofes confesseth that at the first there was no difference betwene a bishop and an Elder and that after it was decreed that in euery church one onely should haue the name of bishop Yf it were the first institution that they shoulde be one and the first institution be the Apostels institution it was the Apostels institution that they shoulde be all one yf the Apostels did reuoke this institution off theirs shewe their handes bringe forthe their euidence Ierome prouethe by diuers testimonies off scripture that a bishop and elder were one according to S. Paul. Therfore if the D. auoide this autoritie he must shewe vs the Apostels autoritie in writing for herin yt is trwe that the lawe saith matter of vvriting and recorde can not be auoided but by that of as high a nature He gathereth that this order of bishops and archbis was in thapostles times because there were schismes then I haue by this reason proued in an other place that thâ—â—e were no archbishops where if he had any thinge he should haue spoken And how is he bewitched which seeth not the wordes of his autor For when Ierome saith this came by custome he euidently declareth that â—â— was not by determinacion of the Apostels The same declareth Augustin when he saith the office of a bishop vvas greater then off an other mynister as tovvching the names off honor throvvghe a custome off the churche vvhich novve hathe gotteÌ„ the vpper hand Likewise when Ierome saithe this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessitie of lavve but for that yt vvas graunted to honor him vvithall yt ys manifeste that yt was not by the Apostlels determinacion For yf yt had bene their institution yt had bene necessarie After admitting yt was after the Apostels he procedeth to answer Tertullian which saithe that ys true vvhich is first that ys false vvhich is later But how cometh yt to passe that he anwereth not that alledged owte off our Sauiour Christes e wordes which calleth the Pharisies vnto the firste institution that was belike to harde for him to byte vpon And the answer vnto Tertullian is absurde For he bringeth him in reasoning as he vseth that is prouing the thinge in controuersie by that a like doubtefull For if the rule of Tertullian extende yt selfe no further then vnto thinges he there speaketh of and in debate his reason is no reason but a giddie turne aboute wherin altowghe greate paines be taken yet there is no grownde gotten Wheras Tertullian proue the that Praxeas iudgement of our Sau. Christe was therfore naught because yt was new aÌ„d new because yt was not agreing with that gyuen by the scripture Moreouer his answer to the place presumeth that the gouernement off the churche is not a matter off faithe and saluacion which is the question And as for his Phantasies he resembleth my reason with they haue nothing like For beside that there were Christian magistrates baptisinges in churches coÌ„munion ministred vnto more then 12 â–ª in thapostels times and off their alowance the Apostels neuer tawght that there should be no ChristiaÌ„ magistrates no baptisinges hut in riuers no eating off thinges strangled c. the contrary off all which they plainly taught ordeining onely that the Gentils should support the Iewes in strangled thinges abut they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one and neuer alowed that one Pastor shoulde take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. myles compas The testimonie owt off Tertull maketh way for Montanus heresie wherof I haue spoken beforé Vnto the nexte diuis he answereth not For yt being plaine that the Apostels tawght that a bishop and elder were all one because he had nothinge to answer he leueth that and runnethe backe to that handled in the beginning off the equalitie off ministers As for the testimonie owte of Zuinglius firste yt is vntrw that the Anabaptistes obiecte this place againste Zuinglius which I haue pressed him with secondly yt is vntrue that they obiected vnto him in the like case which wee doo for in all their controuersies with him they haue not one of those pointes now debated And where he saith Tertullians wordes serue not because thes degrees are not againste the truth let him denie if he dare that this is the truth off God that a Bishop and an other minister off the word be all
ministers preach and suppresse heresies so well thorowgh all the church as an archbishop in a Prouince I haue shewed that albeit one be graunted more impossible then the other yet this also is impossible which is sufficient to proue that in hand And that is here confessed when he is constreyned to lay one part off his dutie vpon his Suffraganes shoulders an other vpon his archdeacons c. All which if he be able to beare him self why doth he driue them vnto others Let the church at least be discharged off thes bourdens If not why hath he taken it vpon him Yf the Pope deserue condemnacion for taking more vpon him then he is able to doo the Archbishop and bishops which beare him companie in this point caÌ„ not be separated from it So this reason browght against the Pope standeth fast against them Moreouer as the Pope can not dispatch his matters in the whole churche so well as an Archbis in a prouince so can nether an Archbis in his Prouince so well as a bishop in his dioces nor he in his dioces so wel as in a particular coÌ„gregacioÌ„ doo the duties of a bishop So that this answer no more shutteth owt the Pope then the archbishop or lordly bishop But he saith the archbishop may haue conference with his archdeacons and Chauncelours which the Pope can not He seemeth to haue forgotten the conference by letters and intelligence which the Pope hath had from tyme to time so particular and precise off churches furtheste off him as if he had bene in the bosome off them which pointe Maister Tindall hathe well set forthe And would to God there were the tenth part off the fruicte off the archbishops conference vnto the good off our churche which hathe bene off the Popes to the ouerthrow therof And if conference by mouthe be necessary Rome is not so far but as it hathe bene so it maie be had For besydes that stories aforde vs diuers examples off churches which haue sowght the appeasing off their controuersies from places further remoued then Canterbury is from Rome the marchandrise off vnitie owght to be so precious that we shoulde not doubte to saile for yt vnto the Indes and Garamantes so that if there be suche a mysterie in the nomber of one to kepe vnitie the distance of place owght not to hinder this monarchie off the whole churche yf for no other cause yet for this that when the archbishops of whom hangeth forsoothe the churches peaâ—â— are fallen owt there maie be some to accord them That as the mynisters haue lorde bishops and they tharchbishops so the archbishops might haue a Pope in reuerence off whose autoritie they might easelyer be conioined And in deede by so much more yt is necessary in this respect there should be a Pope ouer the archbishop then ether archbis ouer bishops or bishops ouer ministers as the reÌ„te and diuisioÌ„ in theÌ„ being cheif is more hurtfull then when it falleth amongeste those in lower places For when schismes and heresies light amongeste them they spred so muche further as they with the arme and power off their autoritie are hable to flinge them further then the other The differences betwene the Pope and the archbishop serue but for stuffing for I excepted in my replie the corruptions off doctrine and yow owght to haue vnderstanded that superiority of one bishop ouer all in the catholike churche chosen by consente doothe not necessarily drawe thes accidentes of contempte of Princes of making their decrees equall with the lawes of god c. Yow should therfore haue made yowr coÌ„parison betwene an vniuersall Bishop chosen and not breaking in violently meinteining the truthe and not fighting againste yt c. Vnto that I alledged that thinges passing by voice in the churche of Alexandria the distinction off bishop from the reste off the elders in the church there might come in vvithovvte Saint Marckes consente he saithe nothing And in deede if he had obteined that which he woulde so faine that this alteration was made in S. Marckes time yet he shall neuer obteine this that S. Marke had his hande in that chaunge onles he will saie the Apostells and Apostolicall men were autors off all thinges doone in their time in euery singular congregacion Vnto that I saide the vvordes from Saint Marcke maie be taken rather exclusiuely to shut ovvte S. Marke he answereth that none off iudgement will graunte that where notwithstanding he that hath anie iudgement doth easely vnderstande that the wordes haue manie times that significacioÌ„ and that they are so here I am coÌ„tent it be tried by the other reasons propounded I alledged that S. Marck can not be autor off that distinction because he making those thinges diuers vvhich the holy Gost made one should make the storie he vvrote suspected He answereth yt ys certeine thes were no otherwise distinguished then the holy gost appointed them which I haue shewed how shameles yt ys Then that my collection is vngodly to imagine so off the gospell written by the Euangeliste As yff I did not in plaine wordes deteste all suspicion of the vntrwthe off that Gospell and therfore caste awaie his false surmise which might gyue occasion theroff He saith therby appeareth at the least that yt was auncient I denie not but yt is manifeste also that ther were other corruptions in some places of the churche as aunciente The Answ as his coustome is taketh his pleasure off me because vpon the wordes off Ierome this coustome vvas at Alexandria I gather that yt was not in other places As if yt were not manifeste that Ierome noteth where yt began and if it had beginning at Alexandria yt was there when yt was not in other churches If it had had further passage at that time Ierome should haue doone yt iniurie in coÌ„cealing yt For it would haue made much for the credite off that distinction Which I alledging in the next diuis the Ans saith nothing vnto Nether is there anie so rude an idiote which knowethe not that a notable or vnwonted thinge saide off one man place or time is spoken emphatically and excludeth all other But as the D. will not vnderstande a generall proposition vnles yt haue the signe all or euerie before yt so he will not vnderstande that any thinge is appropriat vnto another vnles yt haue thes wordes onely alone c. And it is cleare how intollerable the D. is in his insultations seing Ierome in saying that this coustome gat grounde by litle and lytle declareth the trwth of my collection And where he answereth to that I obiected off the confounding oftentimes off prieste and bishop that the bishop is a prieste but not contrariwise he first answereth not to the argumeÌ„t For this is not to be confounded when off two thinges one is verified of the other but thother can not returne and be verified of his fellow Secondly his answer is ouerthrowne by his exposition of the place of
Cyprian which by one priest in the churche vnderstandeth one onely bishop in a church for therby it foloweth that ether there was but onely one priest in the church of Carthage or els thes wordes bishop and prieste were all one so that whosoeuer was one was the other The nexte diuision hath not a worde to purpose for autorities are quoted to proue that the Apostels apointed Bishops in diuers churches which no man denieth yea I haue namely alledged yt before Where I shew that forsomuche as the Archdeacon is reproued of Ierome for preferring him sefe before an elder because the scripture maketh him inferior vnto the elder by the same reason a bishop is to be reproued for that he preferreth himself before an elder which the scripture maketh his equall he answereth he seeth no sequell nor likelihoode notwithstanding I truste there is none that hathe but his commen sense which dooth not easely vnderstande that yt is no more lawfull for those which are ordeined equalls by the scripture to lifte them selues one aboue an other then yt is lawfull for him that is apointed to be vnder to exalte him selfe aboue his superior for althowghe he be in greater faulte which being vnder exalteth him selfe aboue then he which magnifieth him selfe aboue his equall yet as the ordinance off God cawseth the one to be vnlawfull so yt doothe the other The seconde answer is there maie be degrees amongeste the ministers notwithstanding all this for that Ierome saithe there was a degree This is a verie blunt answer I alledge bothe autoritie off the scripture and Ieromes owne reason againste the distinction off one bishop from the reste and he answereth that the distinction is good for Ierome so saith Thirdly althowgh Ierome confesse that a bishop and an elder be all one by the scripture yet he confesseth superioritie off a bishop before an other elder but he saith they are all one by the scripture and that the bishop is superior by coustome And here he stitchethe in a parenthesis For after he had alledged Ierome confessing that a bishop and an elder are all one by scripture he addeth as they be in deede towching the ministerie Therby desirous as yt seemeth to abuse his symple reader in making him belieue that Ierome mente that there was by the scripture difference in policie betweene a bishop and an other mynister which ouerthroweth the whole intente of Ierome For he sheweth that this difference which the D. in other places termeth for order and Policie betwene a bishop ād an other minister was not by the scripture but by coustome and beganne at Alexandria And seing Ierome putteth a difference betwene the bishop specified in S. Paul and the bishop in his time yf the Answ say that S. Paules bishop differed frō an other minister as towching order and policie I would gladly knowe of him how Ieromes bishop and he which is now differeth from an other minister Yf he answer as he hath doone before that they differ not as towching the ministery but as towching order and policie thē he putteth no differēce betwene S. Paules bishop and Ieromes which is ouerthrow of all that Ierome saith and he hath flatly affirmed where he maketh Ieromes bishop instituted by the churche after the Apostels times After he blusheth not to saie that Ierome makethe a difference betwene S. Paules bishop and another minister For althowghe he broilethe and mingleth all vpon a heape thincking throwgh confusion off all to cawse his treachery not to be seen yet after he doth plainly vtter yt in answering Chrysostomes wordes the same with Ieromes But before I come to his reasons wherby he would proue this I will set downe the wordes off Ierome wherby his vnhoneste dealing maie be better perceiued First he saith a ministre that is to say a bishop and a litle after the Apostle dothe plainly teache that a bishop and a minister are all one And in an other place a Bishop and a minister are the same againe althovvghe vvith the auncient fathers bishops and elders vvere all one Here appeareth manifestly that Ierome saith a bishop and an other minister be all one with the Apostell and with the auncient times that he expoundethe one by the other that he turneth one off them vpon an other for as he saith that bishops be ministers so he affirmeth that mynisters be bishops Nowe of the twoo reasons to proue that Ierome put a difference betweene a bishop and an elder this is the firste the one is a name of age and the other of dignitie which is asmuch to saie as they differ in deede because they differ in name and that the auncientes and elders off the people off Israell were not their gouernours because the name aff auncientes is a name off age and the other of honor or as if the eldest brother were not the heir because the one is a name of age the other of honor Wheras Ieromes purpose is plainly to shew that althowgh the names be diuers yet the thinges are all one And yf there be anie dignitie shut vp in this name bishop the ministers are partakers of it considering that he affirmeth that they be bishops And if there be any inferioritie noted by the name off elder the bishop hathe his parte in yt for so muche as he is an elder Althowghe the trwthe is that by the worde dignitie Ierome mente nothing but an office and called the name off bishop the name off a dignitie becawse the office drawethe dignitie with yt And because of reuerence which the yonger giue to thelder as also for that ministers and bishops were often taken from them whiche were well growne in age they were called elders So that althowgh the name elder be the name off age yet yt draweth as muche honor after yt as the name off bishop His other reason is Ierome saithe an elder is conteined in a bishop which he bringeth as a proofe to shew that Deacons are therfore vnder elders because elders and bishops be all one with S. Paul. So that he hath not onely depraued Ieromes minde but drawne his wordes to a cleane contrarie sense of that he ment for euen by the same wordes wherby Ierome woulde proue they be all one he would proue them diuers And althowghe Ieromes maner of speache here be somewhat harde for that purpose considering that thinges which are all one can not properly be saide to conteine one another yet bothe by his plaine wordes in other places and manifest suite off his disputation he made his meaning so well knowne that no man onles willing coulde stumble at his phrase And if the D. will thus hunt at syllables yet this speache off Ieromes is so farre from helpinge him that yt dooth vtterly ouerthrow all his houlde he snatcheth at For where he vpon thes wordes in a bishop is conteined an elder would conclude that euery bishop is a minister but not euery minister a
bishop all men see that in taking Ierome by the lips withowte considering his meaning the contrary off that the D. gathereth doth folowe that euery minister is a bishop but not euery bishop a minister For that which is conteined vnder an other is more particuler and les then that vvhich dothe conteine as because the kinge is conteined in the magistrate therfore euerie Kinge is a magistrate but not euerye magistrate a Kinge And albeit yt be no meruaile althowghe he which striueth with the trwth shoulde be stricken with suche a guiddines off spirite that he shoulde not be hable to discerne not onely betwene the morning and noone daies but not between noone daies and midnight yet because the smattering in logick which this booke maketh shew of might be so much as not to be so grossely abvsed in casting with my selfe wherfore he shoulde alledge this in the ende yt came to my minde that by thes wordes the elder is conteined in the bishop he woulde haue vnderstanded that the elder is conteined vnder the bishops gouernement If he meane so there is as great ouersight in his grammer as before in logicke ogicke considering that the toung as I suppose will bare no such sense certeine ys that the autor will not suffer yt For he assigneth as reason why thapostle did not speake of the elder for that an elder is conteined in the bishop and therfore speaking of th one he needed not to speake of thother Wheras if he should meane that he would not speake of an elder because he was in the gouernement off the bishop to order as he thowght good yt had bene a witles saying vnworthy of Ierome considering that thapostle speaketh of a deacon which is vnder a bishop Which shall be answer to his like dealing with Chrysostome That Ierome speaketh of an archdeacon in that place I haue before declared But the D. asketh why I went about to deface Ierome if he nether make for our ether bishop or archbishop for that there coulde be no other cause but this I haue shewed that I saued him his due and conuenient honor the cause why I gaue the reader warning to trie him by the rule off the worde off God was because he seemeth in some places to alowe that distinction off bishop from an elder which is diuers from the institution off the Apostell After he setteth downe his places oftén before repeted and asketh whether I thincke those meÌ„te of euerie pastor in his parishe I haue shewed how althowghe vpon occasions before recited there were not in euery congregacion at that time a bishop yet there were in diuers he saith further that the pastor in euery congregation from the beginning had his autoritie ouer his flocke withowte anie suche constitution I graunte he had his antoritie but not so soueraigne as after he obteined by this euill custome considering that he had an equall parte of gouernement with those ioined with him in the administracion off the churche And this althowghe yt be debated betwene vs yet the D. frameth his answer as thowghe there were no suche thinge For albeit for the moste parte there were no moe pastors theÌ„ one in a parishe yet there were moe elders And albeit Ier. speake of those elders which had the ministerie of the word yet â—â—at excludeth not those which were onely for gouernement Where he saith moreouer the care of the whole flock was committed vnto him I see not how he can conclude therof that the bishop was ouer a whole diocese suche as ours yt might rather be concluded that he had charge off one onely congregation considering that althowghe him selfe alone were thowght hable to care for one congregacion yet there is none which would thinck him self alone able to care for a whole dioces And beside that the churches should be in miserable case if none should care for theÌ„ but euery bishop in his dioces let the D. stretch owt the bishops iurisdiction as far as he can yet I haue shewed owt off the Emperours letters to the bishop of Alexandria that the elders off the same church where he abode had aioynt care with him ouer all Which is also confirmed by the testimonie the Ans hath alledged owt off M. Fox where not the bishop onely but his church also is saied to haue the ouersight off the precinctes which perteined vnto him And Ierome him self shewing that the elders ovvght to gouerne in commen vvith the bishop can not be thowght to giue vnto the bishop the whole care of the church as peculiar vnto him alone onles a man will make him contrary to him self For if they haue the gouernement in coÌ„men with him they haue the care in coÌ„men for somuch as there can be no gouernement withowt care So that where Ierome saith the care off the whole churche was coÌ„mitted vnto one yt must be vnderstanded so as yt may be leuell with his other saying especially wheÌ„ he saith that a bishop differed from his elder onely in ordinacioÌ„ Which may appeare by the practise off the churches about the time wherin Ierome wrote For it was ordeined that the bishop should not iudge off any matter but in presence off his clergie if othervvise his sentence should be voide Wherby appeareth that an other canon permitting the iudgement off subdeacons and other inferior orders vnto the bishop alone must be vnderstanded alone withowt other bishops not withowt other assistance Which is also cleare considering that the Councell opposeth the decision off their cawses vnto that off elders and deacons which was to be doon by six and three bishops beside the bishop off whom they were accused This gouernement in commeÌ„ appeareth also in that vvhen one off the clerckes vvould goe ether to the vvidovves or virgines he must haue as vvell the leaue off the elder as off the bishop Likewise that it was ordeined that the deacon should acknovvledge him self as vvell the minister vnto the elder as to the bishop Here it is also to be obserued what that ordinacion was wherin onely the bishop differed from the elder how poore a thing For beside that it can not be vnderstanded off the election which was commen to him with the people and the eldership yt was decreed that vvhen there vvas a bishop to be ordeined tvvo bishops should hould the booke ouer his heade one other bishop should pronounce the blessing aÌ„d the rest of the bishops vvith thelders present should all lay on their handes So that ether there was an other order at Rome theÌ„ is here appointed or els the bishops preeminence was onely to pronounce the blessing and hould the booke the elder hauing as good right to lay on his handes as he Where he saith his place against the Luciferanes with an other owt off his epistle is more cleare he bringeth no reason at all nether are there any wordes to enforce that Onles by church one vnderstand dioces or Prouince such as ours
which I haue shewed to be far from the vse of those times or onles we graunt that there can be no schismes nor heresies in a particular congregacion wherof there is to good experience or that yt is impossible there should be many elders in one church which I haue declared and shall God willing declare further to be vntrue I saie onles thes proue an archbishop or a lorde bishop there is nothing in those wordes off Ierome And yet the D. that he may helpe his weake reasons with stronge wordes muste vppon thes conclude yt impossible to expounde Ieromes wordes otherwise then off bishop or archbishop such as ours Where he concludeth vpon that the elders chose one amongeste them whom they made bishop as the captaine is chosen of the the soldiars that therfore the bishop was ouer diuers congregations there is no likelyhood off reason And where to giue yt some he threapeth twoo thinges at my hande the one that this worde elder signifieth onely a minister off the worde thother that euery minister of the worde had his seuerall flocke he doothe but dalie For he knoweth well that I hould that the worde elder reacheth to such as gouerne onely and that there were in diuers congregations more then one which preached the word of god Where he saith those which I call obscure villages were litle cyties suche as with vs Ely or Peterborowgh I leue it to the reader to iudge how muche I haue therin squared from Erasmus who calleth them peeuish litle Tovvnes Where he saith he callethe them base cities I am contente the reader take which he liketh beste For bothe in proper speache can not be trew for to cal a towne and a litle towne and a peuishe lytle towne a citie is not for any thinge I know wonted Howbeit I will not here striue yt is sufficient that I haue shewed that there were bishops in other places which were no cities And euen in this the D. letteth fall the Popes decree which he defendeth in an other place which forbiddeth as well to place bishops in base and small cities as in vplandishe townes And albeit the D. be not hable by thes wordes of Ierome nor by any other which he hathe browght to proue that the bishop had any further reache then vnto one onely churche yet forsomuche as yt is not here question off the victorie but off trwth nor what the Ans is hable to proue but what maye be proued I will not denie but in Ieromes times the bishops vpon occasions before off me alledged had enlarged their boundes in suche sorte that there were certen congregacions which belonged to their ouersight and wherof they were called bishops But I appele first to the institution off God and vse of the purer times after the Apostles and then I answer that a dioces was not the twentith part of that which they haue now As appeareth by that alledged before owt of the Councels and by that Ierome saith that their elders vnder them gouerned in commen vvith them which they coulde not haue doon onles they being hard by had made one bodie with them For nether could the bishop doo any thing in his congregation withowt the elders nor they in theirs withowt him but they made one Senate amongest them The practise wherof is yet to be seen in certein reformed churches ▪ where the elders off certein small parishes round abowt make one bodie off Senate with the elders off the principall towne meeting together once at the least euery week Sauing that they haue altogether abolished that euill coustome which wrong the name of bishop from all the rest vnto one and graunted the ordinacion to him alone there being one amongest them which hath onely this aboue the rest when they assemble together to propound matters gather the voices giuethe exhortations and that also for a time and not during his ministerie I haue shewed that the argument wherwith the Ans would off a bishop conclude an archbishop and off one ouer a dioces one ouer a whole Prouince is too bad and it is not here to be repeted This place requireth to shew that albeit the Metropolitan was now receiued in the East partes yet ether he was not in the most partes off the weast where Ierom was or Ierome did not acknowledge him Wherin I will first propound my argumentes and after answer to his obiections And firste euen with the selfe same places he would proue tharchbishop is he ouerturned as of that againste the Lucifer For if it be certein which I haue shewed that Ierome speaketh off the autoritie that euery bishop hath in his precincte and plaine by Ieromes wordes that the autoritie he speaketh off there is suche as not onely hath no superior but no mate yt muste folow that aboue the bishop which Ierome propoundeth there can be no archbishop Againe where he affirmeth that the bishop elder and deacon vnder the gospell are in the same place that Aron his sonnes and the Leuites were vnder the law yt maie be concluded that forasmuch as euerie bishop in his charge hathe the same autoritie Aaron had and yt is certeine that there was no ecclesiasticall autoritie ouer Aaron therfore by Ierome there owght to be none aboue the bishop in euery churche Moreouer vpon that he saith that all bishops succede vnto the Apostels yt maie be reasoned forsomuch as the bishops haue the places off the Apostels in their seuerall churches and it certeine that the Apostels had no dominion one ouer an other but equall autoritie ▪ as bothe hath bene and shall be God willing further shewed that bishops owght not to haue anie bishop to whom they owght to be subiecte Beside this speaking off the orders in the churche in his times he reckenethe vp deacons archdeacons elders archelders and bishops If there had bene any Archbishops where hē was or he had alowed of anie there coulde neuer haue bene so fit a place to haue spoken off him considering that his purpose was to shew those degrees which were Seing therefore he maketh no mention off him yt is apparant that there was none or that he alowed off none Moreouer he putteth this difference betwene the Montanistes and the Catholikes that Catholikes had their bishops as the successors off thapostels gyuing vnto them the firste place but the montaniste heretikes had in the firste and cheifest place Patriarches in the seconde certeine vvhich they called Cenones so that the Bishop with them occupied but the thirde Now if the bishop was the higheste degree in the catholike churche and if to haue a Patriarche which the D. saith is all one with a Metropolitane and Archbishop ouer the bishop was in Ieromes iudgement worthie off this reproche I leaue yt to the readers iudgement what was Ieromes opinion off the office off an Archbishop and whether the same blot which he marked in the rowte off Montanistes be not in our churche where there is aboue
consulship not in all pointes but onely in this that he should propound the matters c. as before Which appeareth in an other place and euen in this verie place when he saith yt is meete that althovvghe they be all off equall povver yet there should be one as yt vvere moderator And therfore if yow woulde haue made yowr archbishops according to Caluins measure he owght to haue no more preheminence before the simplest pastor then the Consull which spake had before his fellow Consull which helde his peace Wher he saith the prolocutor chosen for the inferior sort of clergie yet the Archbishop reteineth still his office yt shewethe that he is now but an idoll hauing put ouer the duty to other for which he is supposed to haue bene so necessarie But yt is manifest that the Prolocutor in the synode hathe all that preheminence which Peter had aboue the other Apostels and therfore which one pastor owght to haue aboue an other which is that I browght yt for The next I answere not Where I shew his vaine argument that one bishop shoulde be aboue an other because Paule an APostle was aboue Timothe an Euangelist he saith that yt houldethe because they differ not in the administring off the the worde and sacramentes but in gouernement Which is vntrew for they differed in both alike For as they differed from the Apostles in that they gouerned those onely churches ouer which they were set where the Apostles gouernement stretched vnto all churches so they could not administer the worde and sacramentes but where they were appointed where the Apostles might do yt in all places But for further confutation off this distinction I referre me to that before Where I shew his argument all one with this my Lord maior is aboue the Sherifes therfore one sherife is aboue an other he saith I should haue concluded that because my Lord Maior hath rule ouer the cytisens therfore the Apostels superioritie ouer an inferior degree off ministerie proueth that one in the same degre of ministerie may rule ouer an other Which is to ridiculous For if it were as it is not a good argument from ciuill gouernement vnto ecclesiasticall yet to saie that therfore one ecclesiasticall officer may beare rule ouer an other yea that one may beare rule ouer his fellowes off the same order becawse the magistrate beareth rule ouer priuate men cleaneth togither as goates dounge So that if there were any argument here yt ys that as my Lord maior ruleth ouer the cytisens so yt behouethe the pastor to rule ouer his flocke The next diuisiō is answered Wher he calledged Calu. that vppon that Paul willed Titus to appoint Elders saithe Titus was in autoritie and counsell aboue other Pastors and I opposed Calu. which sheweth that he did nothing in that behalfe vvithovvt the aduise off other pastors and consent off the churches he askethe whotly still for answere As if it were not answered especially when I shewed before that the superioritie that ministers can haue in suche meetinges is onely to propounde c. as is before declared Which Calu. do the expresly set forthe in the same place when he saith S. Paule commaunded him onely to be president or moderator in the election The two first sections how shamefullie they be said I leaue to the readers iudgement in the last against that I alledged owt off the Scoliaste that Paule would not haue one rule the whole I le and therfore not Titus is browght first an exposition gone abowte to be confirmed off him and Chrysostome which say that Paule committed vnto Titus Crete and to Timothie almoste all Asia As yf that might not well stand with that that Titus gouerned one citie alone for in that they had autoritie giuen them to appoint ministers in forme aforesaid in all that circuite vntill the churche there were fully established and a lawfull ministerie throwghly planted ▪ there charge in that respecte extended yt selfe to that whole circuite But when the countrey was deuided into seuerall churches and euery churche had a lawfull and complete ministery he charge before generall is now restrained vnto that one churche where Titus made his abode Euen as euerie off the 12. Princes and Aaron which deuided the land off Canaan had before partition a certein power off all which after lottes cast had onely to do with that which apperteined to them in seuerall A thowgh yf yt be graunted that Titus and Timothe continued that large gouernement during their abode there wherin I will not striue yet considering as hathe bene shewed they were Euangelistes and no Bishops nor Archbishops there can nothing grow to them hereby For as no man can haue gouernement ouer all the churches which the Apostels had but they that haue that speciall office so none can succede into the iurisdiction off Euangelistes but they onely which haue that extraordinarie ministerie And therfore Caluin in the place before cited off the D. saith there vvas not then suche equalitie c. but that one did rule ouer an other noting by the word then which the D. hathe vnfaithfully left owt that the gouernemēt which Titus had in Creta was for those times when ther were suche extraordinarie callinges Wher he saith in streightening Titus to one church I make him pastor which I donie let him learne that to haue charge in one church alone not a pastor vnles he be so tied that he can not departe withowt the churche lose his bonde Which neither Titus was nor is by any word affirmed off me Whether the rest be shamels accusations let the reader iudge The next althowghe vnworthy of answer being but bare affirmacions against my reasons is answered before As for that those wordes receiue no accusations c. must needes be vnderstanded of one which hathe other elders vnderneathe him and therfore not off euerie pastor yt argueth that the D. is spent For he knowethe that we hould that euery pastor had his elders assistan which hath and shall God willing appeare Besides that it argueth his ignorance off the state of the elder churches wher as hathe bene shewed bishops sat in iudgement off other bishops ād elders not vnderneath them That ther be not a hundreth seuerall preceptes in the three epistles to Timothe and Titus wheras in diuers verses there be sixe or seuen doth well become his bouldnes Against reason alledged owt off Augustine that the place owt off Epiphanius was of some false Epiphanius here is nothing but autoritie Howbeit not to striue for this before I come to answere yt is to be noted that this is Pigghius reason against the churche off God euen in the verie selfe same cause which we haue now in hād towching this sort of bishops For against the Waldenses firste and after against Wickleue which put no difference betwene a bishop and a priest Pigghius hath a treatise in his Hierarche wherin he pressethe them with
nedes be affirmed to apperteine vnto the elder neither doth Epiphanius answer the reason owt off S Paule that Timothe was ordeined by imposition off handes off the companie off elders Likewise that browght off a bishop aboue an elder because S. Paule vvilleth Timothe not to rebuke an elder to let goo other faultes as many as are wordes in the sentence yt is absurde that he referreth that vnto an elder by office which is spoken of an elder by yeares and referreth that to the publicke minister which is vnderstanded onely off a priuate membre off the churche as appeareth manifestly by the opposition off a yong man and after off the elder woman So I leaue to be estemed what good cause the D. hath to couer his face in that wheroff he so greatly vaunteth The next diuision is answered In the next I leaue it to the reader whether the D. order hath the heeles vpward which after endeuoure to shew the necessitie the causes yea the examples off a thinge setteth him selfe to proue that it was Althowgh if this be his trim order he hath kept it euill for Chrysostome browght for confirmacion off the first comethe after Ierome which is browght to beare vp his seconde That Ignatius bishop was but off one particular congregation onely I haue shewed and therfore the wordes ouer all pressed off the D. as they are off Pigghius from whence this was taken are vnderstanded of those within his particular churche Besides the kinde of speach may be easelier drawen vnto the whole worlde then off a diocese or prouince for the reason assigned in my former booke That the bishop owght to be aboue the elders which onelie gouerned and deacons is confessed yf he were aboue the teaching elders that was by custome whether good or bad let it be iudged off that said Howbeit that that be graunted yt maketh nothing to proue a bishop ouer a diocese muche lesse an Archbishop When the bishop in euerie church or to speake as the D. in euerie diocese was the Cheife aboue whom there coulde not by this Ignatius be any higher bishop in earthe I leaue yt to the readers iudgement how absurde the D. is who saith that Ignatius dothe not ouerthrow his Archishop for therby he affirmeth that albeit the bishop off the Diocese were the highest bishop that coulde be vpon earthe yet there might be an other higher then he Also how fonde he is in his reason that for as muche as an archbishop is a bishop therfore Ignatius allowing one allowethe the other When yt is manifest by his owne confession that Ignatius speaketh off one onely sort off bishops either of one particular church as the trwthe is or off one diocese as he imagineth So that his argument is Ignatius allowethe one sort off bishops therfore the Archbishop all one as if a man should say he hath a kinde off fishe in his moate therfore a whale fishe The D. detected in that Iustins president was neither bishop off diocese nor Archbishop off Prouince but of one congregation for excuse saith he browght the place to proue there might be superioritie ouer the ministers Where first his trim order that all my logicke and Rhetoricke is not able to moue is too pitifull for how childishe is yt after so long trauaile to proue a bishop ouer the ministers off a diocese and tharchbishop of a Prouince in the ende to endeuour to proue that ther may be superioritie as if any man would denie this that graunted the other and yt is to set the fondacion vpon the louer yet I would know off him what meanethe the word this wherby appeareth not onelie that he browght yt to proue superioritie but the superioritie either off a bishop ouer a whole diocese or an Archbishop ouer a Prouince considering that this is the superiority which he speake of before and im̄ediatelie after Secondly where I bothe by the vse of the scriptures and auncient writers shewed the word Brethren not taken for the gouernours but the people obserue how vainly he answerth that Iustine meant the ministers and deacons by brethren because he calleth the people after by the name off people As if the rest off the church were not called both in scripture ād other writers by diuerse names Thirdly how if it be graunted that Iustins presidēt had superioritie ouer the minister yet how fondly yt is concluded that yt is lawfull because yt was Then how his weapons fetched from Maister Beza haue alwaies their edge towarde him and his cause For he alledgeth him to proue that Iustins president did gouerne the reste and had the name off bishop which in the same place flatly condemneth that pollicie as is declared Lastly how by this answer he maketh euerie pastor off a congregacion to handle the gouernemen which before he tooke from him when he shutteth him vp in the administracion of the word and samentes only Iustines writinges compared as I compared them with the holie scripture are as I said a ditche I added the reason that ther was in them not a litle mudd off errors which the D. could not answer otherwise I acknowledge him both godlie and learned Maister Beza sought not the word president in Iustine but sheweth how Timothe did the office at Ephesus which Iustines president did which was meete considering he had a higher ministerie then any there So that althowgh Timothe aboue the degree off a bishop kept that presidentship continually during his abode yet there was no reason that one Pastor off the same degree with other should take that vpon him Yf he were the true Ignatius he should in dede be before Iustin but to let passe other exceptions withe M. Caluins sharpe censure off him yt is absurde to ascribe to Ignatius S Iohns scholer that vaine boaste off being able to expound the orders off Angells their varieties the distinctions and differēces betwene vertues powers Thrones c. That priest is no fit name for a minister off the gospell is towched after that the names proper to our S. Christ can be cōmunicated with man is absurd and before confuted where also the name off Prince a peace off Prince off Priestes is shewed vnfit fer the ministery That there may be one Archbishop ouer bishops as there is one bishop ouer pastors hathe no parte trw as hathe bene shewed onely let yt be noted that the reason here for the Archbishop is Hardinges for the Pope This argument browght before and after to proue our Archbishops iurisdiction that one had care of the whole Prouince here is pursued wherunto I answer here that care dothe not necessarily draw iurisdiction or rule ouer that cared for seing that there is no minister I might haue said also no magistrate yea no priuate membre which owght not to haue and shew forthe a care off all the churches which are in Christendome euery one according to the meanes which
so strong to carrie the metropolitaneship ouer all these places to Chrysostome as Nazianzenes wordes before handled are to carrie the metropolitaneship off almost all the churches in the worlde vnto Cyprian For these wordes he had the same care can not be vnderstoode as the D. would that he did the same thinges in all places which he did at Constantinople For how could he teache and rebuke sin in all that circuite as there depriue and excommunicate in proper person as there so that will he nil he the wordes must haue a restreint in respecte off those before as for the greke word he translateth he gouerned which signifieth he adorned vnles he haue some singular licence i◠is for a translation especially too riotous althowghe if that were there yt drawethe no metropolitane autoritie as hathe bene shewed in Cyprians example I graunt Sozomenes are more pressing which speakethe off his deposing off the bishops in Asia and if to mainteine my former answere I would say he deposed them not by his autoritie but by his counsaile as Diophantus said off the cytie of Athenes ruled by him because Themistocles his father vvhich ruled yt vvas guided by his mother and his mother by him and therto alledge that he is called the Doctor off the vvoride by the same Theodoret when notwithstanding he coulde not be an authorised doctor off suche a compas yt would peraduenture be more then he can wel answer But if he will as he dothe make that his paterne to frame his Archbishop by he maketh vs a faicrer but to shoote at then before the archbis being made therby in authoritie off breaking canons off the best Councells by putting in and putting owte off his absolute power not infeferior vnto the pope of Rome and in compasse off dominion aboue him and a fatter Pope then he And beside that it is but trifling to fetche examples off Archbishop like gouernement fower hundrethe yeares and a halfe after Christe or there abowt where the question is off three hundrethe I haue shewed how daungerous yt is to builde vpon the examples off those times especially when euen in this pointe off broad dominion before Chrysostomes time there was an intollerable excesse in the bishop off Antioche which beside Chrysostomes compas had also all Illyricum Towching Ireneus ambassage into Phrigia the D. eye is not simple For after Euseb had shewed that there were Ambassadours sent by the frenche churches to those off Phrigia he addeth as an augmentation that they vvere also sent to the bishop off Rome After to the ende the ambassage might haue more autoritie he sheweth how Ireneus was sent being commended vnto the bishop off Rome to the end as may easely appeare that his letter also obteined with theirs the churches might be the rather moued Whether I haue followed the Scoliastes meaning towching euerie hishop hauing a seuerall congregation I referre me to that I haue before alledged The D. answer to Chrysostome which placeth the bishops charge in one citie that he dothe but shew how the Bishop ys subiecte to as many afflictions as the Emperour and that he puttethe no difference betwene the Bishop and the Emperour is but a cauill For his pourpose is to shew what are the manifold troubles that accompanie the mynistery therby to pinche those which seeke after yt and that he dothe with an argument off comparison in that being but bishop off one citie yet he is subiecte not onely to so many but to moe troubles then the Emperour which hath so large gouernement Now if bishops autority should be extended as the D. estemeth Chrysostomes who seeth not that his cōparison halteth downe right considering that there were few Emperours or rather none sithens Constantine that euer had so large dominion as this ascribed vnto Chrysostome For against this argument yt might haue bene easely replied off those which laie in waite for the ministerie that seing one was able to gouerne so many whole countreis and nations yt could not be so hard a matter to gouerne one onely citie I could not here be put to shifte seing where our question is off 300. yow fetche your proufes off 400. whether I haue said trew let the reader iudge Where I alledge the first acte off the Calcedon Councell that the bishops cried that Theodoret vvas no bishop be alledgeth the 8. acte that he was If yt be a simple answere to set one author against an other yt is muche more simple to set one autoritie at variaunce with yt selfe withowt shewing any way of reconciliatiō That the Councell did well in condēning that Theodoret appeareth for that he had writtē against Cyril euen in that Cyrill wrote against Nestorius errors in which respecte his bookes were commaunded to be burnte with those errors And this was not onely done by the Councel off Calcedon but by that also off Ephesus and Constantinople so that here are three condemnations passed against him for one absolution And that what maner off one verelie which appeareth to haue bene throwghe the fauour off the Emperour Martian For what if he reuoked his heresie there as he had I thinck done before in the Councel off Constantinople yet as I haue shewed there was no cause why he should be trusted with suche a greate charge no not in the D. iudgemēt I suppose so soudenlie and withowt further triall Which I say not to discredite his trew repentance and learned writinges but onely to shew how totteringlie the D. Archbishop is set Where I alledged that the Emperour Theodosius and Valētinian cōmaunded him to kepe him to his ovvne church onely his answere is fond that the Emperours meaning was that he should not come to the Synode For are these two all one to kepe him self to his ovvne churche onely and not to come to the Synode When he might come to the synode althowghe he kept not him selfe to his owne churche onely which he could not haue done yf they had bene all one Where he saithe yt appeareth that the Emperour gaue that charge that he should not come vnto the Synode but called yt maketh nothing to the pourpose For that may well stand with that I alledged off his keping to one churche onely And in dede there had bene small wisdome to haue forbidden him the Councell in respecte off the heresie he laboured off and yet to haue suffred him to gouerne such a mightie people When I expounded tares hipocrites I had not the booke before me but trusting therin to Theodoretes knowledge in the scripture estemed that he meant them off whom the parable is vnderstanded that is those off whose ether corruption in life or doctrine the churche can haue no certeine knowledge to procede againste or to giue as he did sentence vpon Neither is he yet purged off the suspicion considering that yt can hardly be belieued that ther was not in 800. churches one onely heretike And if ther were
word and to hould cōmon consultation that therfore he estemed the whole dioces off London or Prouince off Canterbury where there are many thowsand parishes might conueniently grow into one particular bodie to be gouerned off one Pastor Truly this is but kolde reasoning Where I charged him with vnfaithefull dealing for leauing ovvt that vvvich Caluin noteth that the office off Archbis and Patriarck vvas rarely vsed to couer his vnfaithfullnes he alledgeth the later edition which hathe not that sentence Which is partly answered before but ad this also that euen the noted booke which he followed had thus muche off that sentence Althovvghe it may not be passed by in this disputation There wanted onely this it vvas very rarely vsed and that throwghe the printers fault considering that withowt yt there is no sence nor knot with that before or after Therfore if there had bene any loue of the trwthe in hym meeting with suche a gap he would haue sowght to haue made yt vpp in the later edition His shift Calu referrethe that to the patriarcke and not to the Archbishop because ther was smale cause off exercising his authoritie is onely said and in deede cōtrary to thanthors wordes ād meaning Wordes for that giuing that note off his disputation there which is bothe off the Archbishop and Patriarke yt muste follow by all likelihoode that the note also is of them bothe Against his meaning manifestly for he placing both their offices in propounding matters vnto the Synodes which for their hardnes could not be ended of few and gyuing them nothing to doo more then their fellowes but that it muste follow that the oftenest Synodes wherin the archbishop was president being rare and but twise a yeare his office also was off very rare vse Wherby appeareth that Caluins minde was to shew that the archbishops and Patriarches office endured onely but the time off the Synode which ended he had no autoritie but in commen with other bishops vntill the next synode So that althowgh they were not chosen at euery action yet Caluins iudgement standeth that both those offices were but off rare vse The D. onely trifleth in Hemingius For we affirme degrees off ministrie off the word graunt also that there were Patriarches but denie them to haue bene immediatly after the Apostles which Hemingius doth not as he vntruly saith affirme That that church abolishing the Patriarch and Archbishop kept the distinction betwene the bishop an other ministers off the word which the church browght in is confessed but that it owght not so to be is before declared althowgh the bishops there in respect off the height off ours are but dwarfes His answer to that Hemingius saith that S. Luke 22. putteth a difference betvvene the office off a Magistrat and ministers and that dominion is altogether takē avvay from these is very fonde His reason owt off the Hebr. is before answered so that his vnfaithfull dealing in Hemingius remaineth Yf there be no circunstance in M Fox alledged by the D. which gyue further answer I stand to that before made and refer it to the readers iudgement especially seing to that alledged where M. Fox flatly condemneth the degrees off primates metropolitanes and archbishops as ambicious the D. can not answer In saying he vvent about to corrupt him vvith his praise I doo M. Fox no iniurie yt being no fault to be assaulted but to be ouercome Whether I doo the D. any let the reader iudge The maintenance of the reply to the Bishop off Salisb answer towching certein Articles against the D. Chap. 4. Diuis 1. pag. 422. THat the Bishop is directly against the D. in affirming that there be no Apostles Euangelistes or Prophetes ys manifest his shift wherewith he would accord him self with the bishop is is before bewraied That the taking away off the Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes hindreth not the perfect nomber off preaching ministers hath bene declared beside that yt is grosse to say that the diuision is not perfect because certein partes of it are not now extant as if the law of deuiding extended not it self to thinges both past and to come He that parteth the church into that before and vnder the Gospell doth he therfore make an euill particion because there is now no church before the Gospell that is vnder or before the law Here the D. leaueth the bishop to his owne defense towching that he affirmed a bishop not conteined in the place to the Ephes The diuision there being giuen as hath beue saied off those ministers onely vvhich vvith gouernement handle the vvord both here and in the fift diuision the D. doth but trifle in the examples off the elder and deacon seing we hould and will God willing shewe them not to haue to doo with the word Wher hereuppon he woulde bring in his archbishop and archdeacon yt is but repetition off that before where he hath āswer Yf there be a preaching elder not cōteined vnder a Pastor seing he maketh a Pastor and Doctor all one onles he fly to his phansie off Apostles c. there is by his saying a preaching ministerie not tawght in the scripture If there be let him shew it Where I gaue the Catechising vnto the Pastor I will haue it ment where there is no Doctor otherwise I haue in the second edition amended that assigning yt as more proper to the D. So that the Doctor being instituted to the Ephes he whom they called Catechist which tawght the groundes off religion ys likewise albeit S. Pa. calleth al māner of preaching Cathechising That publike reading in the church is as solēne a matter as Catechising the youth is a peece off the former phrensie reading is as good as preaching already confuted That a reader hath bene counted necessarie is saied withowt proof and if it were it was falsly counted there being no necessarie ministrie not specified in the scripture And when they were first notwithstanding them the church ministrie was as hath bene shewed deuided into bishops elders and deacons so that they came not then so much as into account of the ministries Yf they be conuenient at any time that there is scripture to warrant them euen as the Sexten that kept the church dore key hath bene shewed That the archbishops archdeacons and our bishops haue no succour by this being supposed the principalest ministeries and therfore such as owght to haue bene commaunded hath bene likewise disputed where thes colewortes are answered That the Deaconship as I take yt is no gouernement but a simple seruice is idly alledged cōtrary to nothing here set downe Yt may seeme against that alledged before where I comprehend it under the ministers which gouerne onely which I did not to set it in the same kinde off gouernement with the elders but for that yt ordering the church money and ouerseing the poore might in a generall signification be so called If the D. can
this testimonie of Epiphanius And further saith of Wickleue that therfore he tooke away the difference betwene bishop and elder because he could not obteine the bishoprick of Worcester and in an other booke inueigheth sharplie against them for that they would haue neither Pope nor primate nor Archbishop nor Bishop And that yt may yet appeare euen to the simple reader that they had the same cause against Pigghius and the Papistes which we against the D. I offer to his consideration besides the two flat testimonies of M Barnes aÌ„d Hooper before cyted M. Wickleues tenthe article in thes wordes Ther be 12 disciples of Antichrist Popes Cardinalles Patriarckes Archbishopes Bishops Archedeacons Officials Deanes Monkes Chanons Fryers and Pardoners If the D. say that Wickleue spake that not off the offices but off their abuse in popery that shift will not serue coÌ„sidering that he leaueth owt priestes and Deacons Wherof the priest especially doing more mischeife then diuerse which are reckened yet because he occupied the place off the pastor in euery congregacion which was the ordinance off God and was onely a deprauacion and deformitie off the trew ministerie he spareth him the other because they were deuised partlie herbingers to prepare his way partly purucâ—ers to interteine his estate he marked with the black cole off Antichristianitie Yf yt be further said that Wickleue should by this meanes condemne the estate off a bishop vvhich S. Paule alloweth off yt is manifest that he bet against the lord bishop which ruleth ouer other ministers in adiocese coÌ„sidering that he leaueth the priest the deformitie of the teaching minister which minister is all one as hath bene shewed with S. Paules Bishop Beside this reason they may as well saye he spake not against the office off Pope Chanons Monkes Friars Pardoners but onely against the abuse which is absurde This to the learned may better appeare by Pigghius discourse which confesseth that the Waldenses and Wickleue left the ordeâ— off priesthode as they call yt and that the whole question betwene them was not whether lord bishops and Archbishops did their dutie but whether they were lawfull estates Wherby appearethe that whosoeuer was the D. marchant these wares come from one off the filthiest puddels off popery and withall that as sone almost as there was any set and apparant estate of the churche which proclaimed open warre against Antichrist the letters off defiaunce were as well sent against the Archbishop and longehanded bishop as against the Pope Luther also after them writethe thus Bishops vvhersoeuer they be in all the vvorlde are equall to our bishops or parishe ministers and preachers of none caÌ„ yt be said one is lord an other a seruant they are off the same iudgement and vvhatsoeuer belongethe to the churche equally belongeth to all except that vvhich Paule teacheth some preacher or Christian may be off a sounder faith then other haue greater giftes then another interprete the scripture better then an other rule better then an other preache better and haue the discretion off spirites more then an other c. hovvbeit suche giftes cause no inequalitie or lordship in the church Here I will also set downe the iudgement off the reformed churches in Heluetia Zurich Berne Geneua Polonia Hungery Scotland c. who hauing reckened the ministries specified in scriptures add in the times follovving ther vvere many other titles off ministers brovvght into the churche For some vvere ordeined Patriarckes some Archbishops other Suffraganes also metropolitanes Archelders c. but for all those vve passe not ether vvhat they vvere in times past or are novv the Apostels doctrine of the ministers is sufficient for vs. Yf all these churches make no accounte off these offices not onely as they are now but when they were at the best if they esteme them withowt the doctrine of the Apostles I leaue to the readers iudgement what estimacion they had off them and how the D. woulde abuse vs that drawethe the sentences of the cheif in this coÌ„fession to proue their conuenieÌ„ce Neither do I dowbt but that our Archebishops and Bishops refusing to ioyne with the rest off the churches in this confession did it because they could not digest this morsell especiall Now to come to the D. that saith Epiphanius calleth vs heretickes which pinchethe vs. master Wickleue and the pore Waldenses bare yt at Pigghius hand we must do yt at the D. in dede so muche more pinching as yt commethe from him from whom yt least owght But what remedy the Lord will looke to it in time Howbeit because this arrow is as yt is said of Epiphanius a man subiecte to error shot owt off Pigghius bow one giuen vpp to error hauing no heade off the worde of God to make yt enter yt may peraduenture raise the skin but wounde yt can not make But Augustine reckenethe yt so but Augustine reporteth what he found written for towching his owne iudgement he is flat against Epiphanius which maketh a bishop aÌ„d an elder differ by the Apostels institution wheras Augustin as I haue shewed teacheth euen as Ierome that this difference was not by the word of God but by custome now I would know of the D. how Augustin can houlde that for an heresie which to leaue the rest can not be conuinced by the word off God but onely by a custome off the churche And here first he must either let goe his hould of Ierome or this of Epiphanius For if yt be trw that Epiphanius houldeth that a bishop and an elder differ by the Apostels institution then it is false which Ierome and others hould that they were all one at the first and that the difference came by custome Contrariwise if Ierome in that point say true as in dede he dothe then Epiphanius authoritie falleth Secondly yf the D. will preiudice this cause for that Epiphanius a Catholike thowght them to differ by the word off God where Aerius an heretike thowght them all one or els in that Augustin reckeneth that amongest his heresies by the same reason he must preiudice this trwthe that we owght not to praie or make any oblation for the dead For both Epiphan estemed him an heretike for his iudgement in that behalfe and Augustin reporteth this as one off his heresies which is catholike doctrine So that Pigghius might vse this autoritie better which condemnethe as well the one as the other then the D. which houldethe as I thincke for Catholike that which Aerius the hereticke affirmed and for hereticall which Epiphanius the Catholike condemned The flower off Epiphanius reasons browght before is answered now the D. distressed bringeth forth tag aÌ„d rag for towching Epiphanius saying the bishop by imposition off handes begetteth fathers 1. teachers to the churche vvhere the priestes begate onely sonnes yt is but asking off that in question when Aerius holding them both one by Gods institution the imposition off handes belonging vnto the bishop muste