neuer enter into the Apostles true meaning which now after these fewe words of yours are so plainly euident as the Sunne at Noone-daies God haue the praise for it I beseech your patience sir a little longer for my further assurance in the faith In the next place somewhat touching the forme of the Letany Phrases and Clauses I know there besūdry which some except against but hee that brings Charity with him I doubt not may with the Bee gather honey where the Spider conuerteth all into poison The like may bee said of exceptions against some other praiers But that which seemes to bring with it some equall exception is the many repetitions of one and the same thing as Good Lord deliuer vt c. wee beseech thee to heare vs good Lord c. Medioc I know that some doe call this often Repetition by the name of vain-babling as if our Sauiour in Math. 6. had condemned it Our Sauiour there doth not cōdemne Repetitions simply but Respectiuely that is as himselfe there expoundeth when mē thinke that for their so doing they deserue to be heard of God Otherwise doing it not with perswasion of merit but with a simplicity of heart to God ward wee doe but as our M Christ himselfe did in the Garden who three times ouer repeated the selfe same praier to his father Or as the Prophet doth in Psalme 136 whose burden of his song is For his mercie endureth for euer and this 26 times together euen so oft as there be veries Malcon Stay good sir. The point is plaine enough but I haue beene as an horse and mule void of vnderstanding and to the blind Suns light is but darknes till scales fall from Pauls eies by the Ministery of Ananias There is one question sir which is as Goliah not able to be remoued Medioc And yet little Dauid with a small pebble-stone may knock downe the monster Bring him forth of the cāp of the Philistins and see if his owne sword cut not off his owne head Malcon GOD giue the truth to preuaile timelily with me and all his people Then this it is How shall we subscribe to our translation of the scriptures namely that it containeth nothing Repugnant to the word Medioc I answere something in the translation may bee diuers to the Originall and yet not Repugnant to the word Nam diuersa non sunt opposita vnderstand you that Malcon Very well and most true it is Medioc Secondly I answere by another Question can there be any subscription in this life made vnto any one Churches translation Malcon Surely that must needes bee else there will neuer be any vniformity or orderly communion where euery one shall be left to their owne priuate interpretation and meaning Medioc What should let then that there cannot bee a subscription to our Church Malcon Because some learned in the tōgues doe find some wants in it Medioc By that reason there can bee no subscription to any Translation Greeke Latine English or any For what trāslation that I say no more euer was there is there or euer shall be which shall not sauour of mans weaknes Tell me is there any Church so priuiledged in this life as she shall not erre Malcon Doubtles no. And therefore the whole Congregation of Israel had her sacrifice appointed for sin done of Ignorance Leuit. 4. 13. Medioc Then it vnauoidably followeth y◠either subscription is due to euery true Churches translation or else to none at all And if to none at all then much lesse to the Pastors sermons or to the churches constitutions or Articles seeing all these doe depend vpon the iudgement of men also which haue their wants and Ignorances Malcon It must needs be so Medeoc This puts mee in minde of one who within these fewe yeares said thus vnto mee what if I poue that there is no true bible c God tooke him soone after away I hope for his owne good but sure I am for the Churches good Good friend our mother church knowes what shee doth herein but these excepters are blinde in their manner of exception leading the high-way vnto Atheisme For thus they must argumentate No lawfull subscription in such sort as our Church vrgeth can bee made to any Translation in any thing dissenting from the Originall But euery Translation in some things dissenteth from the Originall Therefore no Translation to be subscribed to as our Church vrgeth Then hereupon will followe 1 No such subscription is due to any Bible sauing to the Hebrew for the Old testament the Greeke for the newe 2 These Not-subscriptors besides may ioyne with some Romanists séem to haue as lawfull exception against the said Hebrue and Greeke also If they know what I meane in this thē let them be ashamed of their ignorāt péeuishnes If they know not then with the Apostle I say Let the ignorant be ignorant 3 Not to say any thing of our Sauiour some others of his Disciples Then they will bring the credit of S. Luke into question who introduceth S. Stephen saying that 75 soules went downe into Aegypt whereas Moses mentioneth only 70 soules Nor can Beza deny but that all Greeke copies hee met with doe read 75. As also the Syrian and Arabian and the Latine with Ierome and Augustine And herein indéede to speake only what is probable S. Stephen followed the Greeke translation of the old Testament called the Septuagint of the 70 or 72 Rabbines that translated it so at the request of the Egyptian King Ptolemy Philadelph which translation in our Sauiours time was most vulgar best knowne to the Iewes thēselues And therfore followed of S. Stephen that I speake nothing of others nor yet here what the Septuagint might intend by 75 nor how in very many places they differ from the Hebrue 4 Then neither may there be such Subscription to any Sermons Articles of faith Ecclesiastique constitutions Leitourgie or the like For mā failing in his worke vppon the Canon or Rule of faith then likewise if not much more he is like to faile in his maner of building vpon that rule of Faith yea not only in maner but in the matter also 5 Then necessarily followeth that no such subscription is at all to bee made but euerie mole is left to dig in the earth as pleaseth his owne blindnes And in such libertie they may go shake hands with Segnior Li bertino and of Libertines become Atheists and of Atheists Diuels incarnate This is not M. Perkins his golden chaine but the black chaine that leadeth and draweth vnto perdition And thus is it not euident that men then begin to be phrenetike when they begin to be fantastique and the despising of the mothers counsell is of God punished with extream blindnes Malcon Oh Lord how haue I been mislead by Sathan All seemed faire that I followed But now to thy praise O God I more and more see that it was but Sathan transformed
Neither will I answere such a foote to his full lest I become like him Neque Iupiter omnibus pluens placet neque abstinens The Lord deliuer our Church from euill Amen From my House at Norburne in East-kent this 8. of Iune Anno Dom. 1608. Thine in the Lord He. Cl. THE FIRST DIALOGVE between Mal-content and Romanist First it must be conceiued that Malcontent sitting vnder a tree in the Hie-way hee thus alone expostulates with himselfe Malcontent O Mal-content how vnhappy art thou in this life whither shalt thou go and what will become of thee Go to the Brownist shall I do so In them and their proceedings I find no vnity no concordance Their hand being against all and the hands of all against them The brother of that Churches Pastor hath writ a great booke against them their vnsetled resolutions bloody excommunications and hie-handed tyrannies as if the Pastor were a Pope taking more vpon them for the measure of strength they haue then do all the English prelates In so much as howsoeuer he perswades people to ioine with the cause of Separation as himselfe had and therein since hath died yet at no hand to ioyne with his brothers congregation for manifold reasons there alledged Since which time one whose name soundes vpon an Anuile hath drawen certaine Principles and inferences touching a true visible Church where in he quoteth scripture for another forme of discipline then that which the Brownist practise and most of vs haue taught in our sermons and writings He purposing as it seemeth to receiue others into communion with him who shall separate as he hath and so shew themselues willing to be ruled by his discipline Aes me which side shall I leane vnto Both of them hold a set forme of discipline to be contained in the word Both of them alleadge for the substance thereof the very sarue scriptures but both of them differ exceedingly in the sense of such Scriptures Another side hauing no Baby for their leader although his sir name begin with a B. he holds both with the gouernement at home by Lord Bishops as also with that of Lay-elders abroad as being in the scriptures neither commanded nor forbidden but things in themselues of an indifferent nature So he holdes and yet denies to subscribe for sundry reasons Shall I separate with the first two or shal I continue in the Church of England with the third But miserable man how shall separation or not separation be good If I separate from the Church as Antichristian then the Anabaptist take hold vpon me and saith that I must separate not so much for the prelaticall discipline as for that the spirit of Antichrist there breatheth Antichristian doctrine Yea that the Church becomes to be Antichristian for that their groundes of faith therein held be principles opposite to Christ. And in my cōscience if the first be granted the second will ineuitably follow If I separate not but continue still in the Church I shall in my worke iustifie that which I haue condemned in word In word I haue condemned the Tippet the Surplice the Corner-cap the Crosse in Baptisme and the like for markes of Antichrist But forsaking my ministry I may liue in some other calling and so be put to the vse of no such ceremonies Yea but if I haue a child I must bring it where before I will not it cannot be baptized without the crosse Come I to the Cōmon seruice I must sit in the sight of a Surplice and come I to the Cōmunion I must there kneele receiue at the hands of one that vseth the ceremonies And be I called to be a Church-warden I must take an oath to present the sincere-sort that omit or speake against such ceremonies I am diuided in my selfe what shall I doe H. I. his followers do say very well that this persecution is worse then that of Queene Maries for that made an end of a man quickly but this grants life with a continuing misery Wo is me how is my soule pained within me Though heretofore Ifumed against the author of that booke intituled Errour on the Right-hand yet now mine affections bee cooled and calmed for well I see that there is nothing yet right amongst them And at home I know not how to liue as I would not be held an Hypocrite or turne-coat The euasion must be by some third meanes that as yet I know not Rest poore head rest rest against this trees roote and take a little nap in the shade He being asleep Romanista passeth by and espying Male-content asleepe be staieth and so speaketh Romanista What fast asléepe who may he be By his habite hée should be some Scholar or Citizen Whoo I know him it is Male-content whose head is full of whirligigs and whose pen spins nought but Cob-webs Stay his lips moue to and fro as doth my dog Grim when as he is ready to chunder and barke sléeping Malcon sleeping Fire fire Elias fire Romanista He is calling for fire from heauen as did Elias But it will burne as fast I thinke as did our Uault-gunpowder that should haue blowne vp the Parliament-house in Westminster together with all the heads of the Country But stay some politique retch now or neuer for an inch of policie I hold better then an ell of Diuinity In the time of discontent it is best working vpon Malcontent for vpon conceit it is then most easy to worke I remember a Dialogue in Erasmus his great Colloquium where one passing by the hie-way was desire us to fasten some strange conclusion vppon the conceit of his fellow Passengers Hereupon hée stops his course with his eies vpon the firmament fixed gaping gazing crossing blessing trembling The passengers thereupon stay looke vp and wonder whereat he should so wonder Anon as with much ado he tels them what a fearefull signe he saw in the firmament a Dragon a terrible thing in description I warrant you hereupon he startles holds vp his hands and wondreth at all the rest that they should say they see nothing Anon one of thē thinking scorne but he should see as much as another he also affirmeth that he saw such a terrible wonder Afterwards some and some euery one said he saw it and trembled In this dialogue some haue thought that Erasmus flouted people in England for conceiting a certain great prelate in the Churches firmament beyond that they should conceit c. But howsoeuer I will take aduantage of the time and see if so I can worke some strange thing vpon him I hope it the rather because one of this spirit a Sole sincerian being of late conuented before a great Prelate of this land he offred that if he the said Prelate could proue but one point then in hand hee would without more adoe turne back to the Church of Rome whereupon the Prelate spake to this effect I is it true indéed are you now ready to go a poping what a poping I had
thē by crosse carriage towards them And then no maruaile they cast out a dart for the least creatures haue their splen and their gall And this I will tell you further if shee can draw her sting back againe thē all is well enough with her howsoeuer she haue tickled her molestor But if she leaue it quite behind then through want of choser to inflame her vnto duty she becommeth a drone and loiterer liuing vpon the spoile of others All which may put vs in mind First that a Christian is to be zealous in a good cause but so as he ouershoot not the compasse of his owne good Secondly that a man ouerlashing in zeale doth finally grow to be as cold as a clocke a plaine loiterer liuing vpon the vndeserued paines of others For extremity of zeale ordinarily is turned into extreame security We are therefore to spend our zeale to day as wee may be feruent in the Churches quarrell to morrow Malcon A wise obseruation and godly Medioc Now sir when such a one becomes a plaine loiterer they want not discipline and that a sharp one for procéeding with such a party marke these two bées you shall haue a present instance sée you how that blacker bee is got vpon the iacke of the other sée how she tugs her forward now she tūbles down with her from the stone now she flies vp againe hauing left the other for dead Malcon Surely she is dead indeed Medioc Whia this was an idle bée and seeing shee would not worke as the Apostle vrgeth she shall not eate amongst them May not both Church and common wealth learne from hence that it is shame to suffer loiterers to the consumption of their labours Now sir marke againe how some come forth to fly about for more prouision Others againe see how they come with their thighes laden with matter for effecting of hony And in the third place obserue how some others help to beare in their burthen From hence may wee not learne that as euery Christian is to haue his calling and therein to bee painfull so the stronger are to support the weaker one bearing anothers burthen and so fulfill the Law of Christ Malcon How dull haue I beene in contemplating the workes of God! Medioc Now sir all these maintaine Vnity in the bonds of peace and so their small beginnings increase to a mightie lump whereas on the other side the greatest things by discord and dariance do come vnto nothing Furthermore as they haue a gouernor to goe in and out before them so they do camp round about his person as willing to be slaine before y◠their anointed be touched And may not the obseruation hereof bring confusion of face vnto such as not only make away but also themselues ioyne in traiterous violences against the Lords annointed our dread Soueraigne king Iames Besides how may it plainly demonstrate the leaud spirits of some Zeloists who being called to inuiron the Church as the Tribes with their tents in the wildernes inuironed the Sanctuary are not onely not such but in deede and in word and in writings incompasse her with firebrands setting all on fire Though the Lord had his holy fire in the Temple yet it was the Diuels wild-fire by Nabuchadnetsar that set the Temple on fire Malcon Wel now I perceiue that the smallest creatures do go before me in obedience to their Creator Reuerend sir as I heartily thanke GOD for the good I haue this way already receiued so I beseech you to giue me patient hearing while I propound my soules sorrow vnto you and that shal be in so fewe words as I can I haue sinned against our Church mightily I am afraid in hauing bin vnto her not a Bee but a spider in drawing all into the euill part for nourishing my poisonfull iudgement My humble desire is that in propounding some doubts which yet as stumps remaine behind vnpulled vp you would vouchsafe vnto mee some reasonable resolution Medioc With all my heart and the Father of Christ Iesus exhibite a plenteous blessing Malcon Amen I beseech him The first question is how may I be assured that the ministrie of our Church is one with that ministry which Christ left vnto the ministration of the new Testament that is of the Gospel or glad tidings through Faith in Christ opposite in respect of the forme of iustification to the workes of the Law The doubt ariseth First from their diuersity of titles the one called Bishops and Deacons the other called Arch-Bishops Lord Bishops Priests Parsōs Vicars Secondly our Bishops seemto haue greater dignities prero gatiues in the world thē the other had Medioc To the first I answer The house of Ioseph made no separation from their master nor the Iewes from Daniel Hananiah Mishael and Azariah howsoeuer Pharaoh altered the first and Nebuchadnetsar gaue bad ones to the second Names are not of the essence or being of things otherwise false Christs should bee true Christs and false Prophets true Prophets because they be inuested with y◠commendable titles of Christ and Prophet And yet no such euill in our names for what is Archbishop but chiefe ouerseer Lord Bishop a ruling ouerséer Priest the corrupt word of Presbyter as Bishop of Episcopos signifieth onely an Elder which phrases of Bishop and Elder were giuen to the Apostles also The first in respect of ouerseeing Church or Churches the second in respect of their yeares sufficiencie before they entred into the worke of the ministry As for the terme Parson you may call him Pastor if you will the Law giues you leaue the terme Parson arguing rather the nature of his Maintenance then of his Office The same may be said of Vicar also and therefore hee that in Lancashire said God hath giuen me a liuing and the diuell hath giuen me a name argued therein more precipitate zeale then sadnes of learning I wonder why Phanatique spirits so well as at this do not brabble with their Parents for giuing and with themselues for bearing such names as Richard Robert Roger Hercules Diana Mar-prelate for so one was baptized and these thousands moe be not onely not in the Bible but many of them rapt from heathen Poets what not But they haue litle to do that will contend with their owne shadow Secondly for the greater dignities prerogatiues which our Bishops haue in the world I answer the Apostles had right to far greater dignities then ours be possessed of the Apostle had right to euery vineyard hée planted to euery flocke hee had fed and that is right to maintenance from multitudes of Churches and countries If it be replied y◠Apostles had it not no not y◠Arch-apostle S. Paul I answere y◠was not because it was not their right but because the people would not giue vnto thē their right If here it be obiected but our Bishops haue not so laboured and conuerted y◠people from whom they haue such dignities I answer the first
Errour on the Left Hand THROVGH A FROZEN SECVRITIE HOWsoeuer hot in opposition when Satan so heats them Acted by way of Dialogue 1 Betw Malcontent and Romanista 2 Betw Mal-content Romanista Libertinus 3 Betw Malcontent and Libertinus 4 Betw Malcontent and Atheos 5 Betw Malcontent and Atheos 6 Betw Malcontent the good bad spirit 7 Betw Malcontent and Mediocrity By HENOCH CLAPHAM Prou. 4. 26. 27. Pouder the pathes of thy feete let all thy waies be ordered aright Turne not to the Right hand nor to the Left but remoue thy foote from euill Horat. Epist. 18. VIRTVS est Medium vitiorum vtrinque reductum LONDON Printed by N. O. for NATHANIEL BVTTER 1608. To the Reader AGainst my booke touching Error on the Right hād certaine fiddle-faddle Spirits do take exception Some say there be certaine formes of speech farre vnworthy the pen of a Preacher I grant that somethings be much vnworthy both my writing many their hearing howsoeuer the Schismatikes thinke the things not vnworthy their Doing Ezekiel was forced to speake more grosly then he would when from filthines of the body he would delineate the soules vncleannes for Idolatry The like also did Saint Iohn Let the Factious be ashamed of so doing and we will be ashamed of so writing and hearing Some say that in the Diologicall speeches I seeme to point at certaine particular persons vpon whom some of my speeches cannot be truely fasteded I grant first that I haue aymed at some particular persons so well as they in their Dialogues of the Barwicke Souldier the Host and Chaplaine c. with many such Martinicall libels haue done right often But as their magnaticall one-eard Inuectiues were set on fire from hell for destroying the Church peace so I doubt not but my feruent breathings will be found to haue beene kindled by the coales of the Altar for the consumption of Schisme Let them consider the parable of Iothams trees that gathered together for electing a King when as none but the brabling Bramble would accept of the offer That parable will fit them as if it onely had propounded vnto them Secondly I answere though all there spoken cannot bee auerred of euery person in a faction by reason no faction is at vnity in it selfe yet it may sit close to some other they thinke not of in the same faction and potentially though not actually concord with the leud spirit of that whole Corporation Besides to such as say that Arianisme was long since confuted by the Fathers and what neede Clapham meddle with it c I answer first by Retortion So Donatisme Anabaptisme Reordination Nicolaitisme Atheisme c. were confuted by the Fathers so was the very adultery murder c. what need any preacher then iterate these arguments The answer to the last will fit the first Secondly I answer Our heretikes haue added vnto the anciēt teaching such conclusions as of old were not dream'd of And had I not by trauaile abroad found out that I might seeme vnto many to speake but in darke parables Search all the bookes that I haue writ and that is from Anno Dom. 1595. hitherto 1608. and consider if still I pronoked not all the Factious specially on the right hand howsoeuer hitherto vnanswered of any VVhich doubtles they would haue done had I not too truely pressed them Thirdly I answere I know none that condemne my labours of that kind but suchas be either open foes or hypocriticall brethren If open foes then no maruaile though they ball and barke against me whenas they raile against the whole body of the Church If Hypocriticall brethren who let some Factious haue their hearts and for maintenance sake let vs haue their bodies onely I waie not of their doome no more then of Laodiceans deuotiō for what is such an Hypocrite but an Ambo between two a bifronted Ianus looking two wayes and a Neuter faithfull to none The opposite side do spit at them and can we do lesse then spurne them In this booke is acted Errour on the Left hand In the fore-front wherof I haue Marshalled the Romanist as one who primordially through a frozen security did decline towards Libertinisme establishing such deuises as vnto flesh and blood might be most acceptable Vnto which side also if I had reduced the carnall Familist for there be a second sort more spirituall I suppose I had done him no wrong But sit as they shall naught be they all and it is the naughtines of their opinions that I specially dart at As for the Male-content I make him the Nicka-fidge here running from one faction vnto another as I did the Flyer in the former VVho also here doth at last meet with Mediocrity and so after some dehatemēt become an honest man Worse I wish to no Flyer nor a straw the worse to any Mal-contented Dei est non errare hominis errare insipientis perseuerare in errore Great Ioue himselfe is onely free from falt The rightest man with Israel doth halt But froward fooles in sollie will perseuer Though tentimes braid a foole he wil be euer If thou canst well relish the Matter but not the Maner of handling for euery one doth quickly conceit a Dialogicall Prosopopeia I then referre thee to my Antidoton my New Ierushalem my Manuall of the Bibles doctrine together with diuers of the heades sparsed in my Bibles briefe in my poeme Aelohim and fiue parts of my labours of Salamons Song not to mention any of my imperfect workes printed abroad ouer immaturely But to helpe the slowe conceited for these two bookes of Dialogues were penned almost altogether for such about the citie of London who are ordinarily toyled with the Factious it must first be obserued that the maine thing I driue at is to vnfold the principall argument whereby euery sort of Schismatique doth fabricate vnto himselfe a new society or Church Secondly to shewe how that principall argument is laide at home by our Mal-content whereupon others build their rendings from vs. Thirdly to disclose such their argumēt by that forme of introducting them in their mutuall brablings wherein as sometimes one of them confuteth another so much of their extrauagant speech is so absurd Vt recitare idem est quod refutare As the bare repetition is a sufficient refutation Lastly my drift is in the person of Mediocrity to establish a Meane Which held and kept according to knowledge may keepe our people from flying out into extreames as they would auoide the grosse and leaud consequents insuing their breach from vs. Had not some learned in authority obserued so many points at least in my former booke it had not obtained a passe to the presse For sure I am that it stood vpon more sufficient examination then all the books which besides I haue diuulged So much is sufficient for reasonable spirits As for such as be wilfully malitious and ignorant nothing will content them
Hostesse And I pray you has he not béene there already Liber No forsooth not this Pope but he is preparing to go thither so fast as he can Hostesse Mary and I wil pray for his good speede For then I hope euery true Catholick shall fare the better by it Good Lord he hath to doe with heauen and he hath to doe with hell and he hath to doe with purgatorie and he hath to doe with Limbo Libert Nay sweete hostesse I heard a Frier in Rome say in the Pulpit that one that was no Pope did aboue 1500 years since opē the gates of Limbo let al the soules out ouerturn the place Hostesse And had he not the Popes licence to doe it Libert He neuer spake with any Pope about it Hostesse And hath not the Pope since curst him Libert Yes forsooth He curst him euery time wherein he cursed Queene Elizabeth Hostesse Well then let king Iames take heed he do not anger him And I would pray you sir to beware how you speak any thing against holy mother Church or any of her children While I was of your mind euery thing went crosse Marry since I reconciled my selfe to holy mother Church my hens lay bigger egges then they did and I take two pence for good ale now where I tooke but a peny then I thanke Saint Campian and S. Garnet for it Well husband I see your flearing well enough These gentlemen can giue audience in all humbility but you will be a flouting Hmybeel as the man said Well gentlemen I will take away for I see you haue done Libert I pray you do meane time what 's the reckoning Hostesse Fiue shillings sir and you are heartily welcome Libert There it is Deo gratias I thanke you mine Host for your good company Malcon I pray you sir stay there be three shillings towards it and I desire I may walke with you a while Libert Well I will take your moneies for this once As for walking with me I am right willing if with any conference I may hestead you Malcon Yes sir seeing you haue bin behinde the Seas and seene the papists and their doings Libert I haue séene them and heard them and laught in my sleeue at them But which way lieth your way Malcon Towards Westminster Libert Haue with you at the nearest Hoste and Hostesse farewell Both. We thanke you heartily kind gentlemen The third Dialogue betweene Libertinus and Malcontent Libert NOw Mr Malcontent what is it you will propound Malcon I desire sir to haue notice of the state of Rome in these daies vile things be diuulged on it if it be so bad it were too bad Libert It was neuer famed for worse then it now is First for the state of substance it is generally very beggerly Traffficke as some other Cities in Italy haue it hath not Indeed many trauell thither as Pilgrimes and there be allowed to stay for certaine daies but as the number of such Pilgrims now be scarse one for an hundred that passed thither of yore so ordinarily they bee but of meane degree and ere they come thither their purse hath cast her calfe For the small time of their aboad then there somewhat comes out of the coffers of the scarlet Cardinals Which spent they put vp their pipes and packe away They might come out full but they returne foole and empty Secondly for the state of Pope and Cardinals it is altogether pompous and princelike the Cardinals hauing hinges enowe in their doore to turne vpon and the Pope besides other meanes hath a mighty allowance annually from the Curtizans scalding-tubs for no occupatiōs in Rome more cōmon then Venery and Penury Thirdly for the state of their religious houses let the vaults secret preambulatiōs vnder earth tell y◠Fourthly for their publique deuotions the formes of them be Pagan-like the multiplicitie of them be as Sisyphus stone alwaies rolling but neuer at an end In a word it is an Egypt for slauery a Babel for bondage a Bethel for idolatry a Tophet for confused noise a Gehinnon for bloud-shed a Sodome for all spurcicity an Hell for dānatiō Malcont If the head be no better what shall become of the body Libert And whereas they plead Vnity taxe all other Churches for Distraction I protest a man shall finde more emulations heart-burnings vituperies bloudy practises amongst them with mutuall oppositions one against another then amongst all other Christians in the world besides Euery schoole man standeth so for his owne schoole doctrine as Thomists for Thomas Scotists for Scotus sic ad infinitum as the like diuision neuer yet hath béene raised betwéene the Aristotelians and Ramists Then go to the friery Orders and the Augustine condemns the Dominik and the Dominik him The blacke frier vituperates the gray white and either of them againe preferres highly his owne order The Iesuite condemnes the Secular for an Apostate and the Secular priest againe auerreth that the Iesuite aberreth from his orders and is now become a Statesman and Factor for Spaine As for the bloody Inquisition they plague all and all curse them what shall I say Malcon Nay you haue said enough and yet but that which I oft before haue heard I beseech you sir of your counsell I haue beene one of them which haue stood heere for the new discipline holding that we haue for popish and Antichristian And seeing this discipline would not be had I lastly resolued to separate and so enter into that course which is called Brownisme As I thus resolued there comes a booke into my hands touching Principles and inferences of a true visible Church This booke teacheth a Separation as do the writings of the former but when he comes to the discipline he then differs much from the former and so from the most of our Reformistes heere at home so well as from the Church of Scotland and the like First we haue held that the Pastor might onely administer the Sacraments but the author of this booke holdeth that the Doctor may administer them also Secondly we haue taught that the Elders were to be imploied in Church gouernement onely I meane in the discipline but he affirmeth further that they are all of them apt to teach and so to assist in doctrine Thirdly we haue published that the Church is to giue the officers their Calling meaning thereby all the men of the Church were to giue their voice but he intimates further that women and children are to giue their consent also for such election and calling Fourthly we held Excommunication to be the casting out of a contumaticus person and that to the excution thereof there appertained only rebukes the word and prayer as all spirituall but he infinuates further that some bodily punishment also is to be annexed What shall I say in many things he is crosse to the discipline which before hath beene applauded and yet the man they say an honest man reuerend and learned In the necke of
this booke I met with another called Errour on the right hand The author thereof being sometimes intangled about Discipline and yet it must be confessed that many yeares he hath in print checked ours for the which we euer caried an hard hand ouer him and during such time of the entanglement about that point he trauailing into forren parts and there abiding some yeares where all sorts of factions were daily in his eies and eares he about some nine yeares since came ouer and in London continuing hath all this while conflicted with factions and not a little vexed vs. The foresaid book he now publishing it plainely euinceth that if separation bee made from the Church of England for Antichristian then will ineuitably follow an endles wandring from faction to faction These two bookes haue put me to my wits end I know not what to do and to subscribe vnto this Churches Canons and orders I cannot Once for that I am knowne in these parts to haue set my selfe against them Secondly for that I hold some of them to be repugnant vnto the word of God Could I get out of these briers I were an happy man Libert And are you so ignorant that you cannot do that within this noneth I helped a kinsman of mine out of this pit who since hath subscribed is now beneficed and yet in nothing harmed his conscience for still his opinion in priuate liueth with him and helpful he is to such as be distressed about that opinion The Apostle willeth vs to serue Kuri◠the Lord which some doe read Kair◠the time And were it not that somtimes we are to fit the time in his humour the Prophet would not haue said There is a time wherein the prudent shall be silent nor would Salamon haue said There is a time for all things vnder the Sunne but this is one thing vnder the sun therfore a time for it yea a time to be silent from some good yet not to euer throwe the maine good and our good Malcon I like this speech well for indeed pearles are not to be cast before swine who wil but turne back all to rend vs. Tell me sir how I may without equiuocation come out of Iosephs pit and I will giue you forty shillings towards a veluet paire of breeches Liberti Then if I do it not call me cut Malcon And I will doe it and more then that Libert Then thus to worke sir haue you printed any thing of your diuers opinions Malcon Not any thing that hath my name at it Libert Then cary it away closely and henceforth conceale it But further haue you beene much noted abroad in the land for such a Contradictorian Malcon No sir for I was no man of extraordinary gifts Libert Then that damme is closed vp There be some which I know that if their case were such they would presently subscribe specially in secret Your best then is to leane this place where you haue beene noted and so to repaire vnto another Malcon But how then shall I doe for subscription Libert The subscription runneth that you must ex animo protest that euery thing they propound is agreable to Gods word and in nothing re pugnant Malcon True Libert Now sir they can propound nothing so erroneous and wicked but it doth agree with some part of Gods word As for example if they propound any thing for Christian which is indéed Antichristian it doth agrée with the word of prophecy who foretelleth that such euils shall be If they propound obedience to the beast in Reuelation the 13. it agrees with the word of Prophecie which saith such euils shall be propounded And in such sense you onely subscribe namely that all their euill agréeeth with the word of prophecy not y◠you meane that their euill is good otherwise then respectiuely as it is a fulfilling of the holy Prophecy Muse not at the matter the case is plaine the pearle of your meaning is not to be cast before them no more then Abraham would deliuer his preseruatiue meaning vnto the licentious Pharaoh nor Christ would deliuer his Reseruatiue meaning vnto them of Emmaus when he looked another way A certaine Doctor once being demanded what hee thought of Q. Elizabeths supremacy hee vnto them replied I desire my Lords to know what you thinke of it They answer we do beléeue the within her owne dominions she is ouer all persons and in all causes Ciuill and Ecclesiastique supreame He answeres And my very good Lords I do truely beleeue the same Whereupon it is said he scaped Now sir what was it he beleeued not that the Queene was so supreame but he beléeued that the Lords so beléeued Malcon Me thinkes this should be equiuocation in him and yet the former I reasonably affect Libert Tut if euery close helpe wee vse for euading dangers must be called equiuocation then we wil condemne Patriarkes and Prophets Martyrs and Confessors and all godly policy Whereas contrariwise our Sauiour hath taught vs yea commanded vs to be subtile as serpents Malcon Without all question it must bee so and I do verily beleeue you But another thing sir if I come to be beneficed I must once within a moneth after publiquely read in my cure 39. articles of religion cōcluded vpon by our Conuocation house and thereto must then signify my assent and there be some that I like not Libert That 's nothing for vpon the former ground you may say All these agrée with Gods word Or you may say thus beloued here be articles that I must read whereto I assent and of whom I affirme that they be gooly Now you say there be such holy articles but not that all the articles are such and holy Malcon O how happy was I to meete with a man of such prudence diuine experience O that all my brethren were acquainted with this sacred policy O sir you must beware to whom you communicate it Otherwise it may come to the Bishops eares and they would fetch you about againe not only you but all others that yet kéep their places who seeme to leane to the new discipline Take héed therfore of that lest otherwise the latter errour be worse then the first Malcon I thanke you for your good counsell for indeed they be but hollow-hearted towards vs. Well sir here is what I promised and if you come to my lodging that is at N. I will bestow a supper of a crowne on you be it to night or any night within this seuennight Libert I thanke you master Malcontent And I will be at your seruice in what I can There lies your way here is mine Malcon Farewell prudent Libertino Libert As much to you reuerend Gentleman The fourth Dialogue betweene Malcontent and Atheos Malcon MAster Atheos I am glad I haue such a Chamber-fellow to night that bed I take to be the better and it is that as mine Host saith which you had last night On this other therefore I
had to do with meere Infidels without the Church but ours with Christians within the visible face of the Church and therefore no such cause nor néed But as the Apostles hauing ordained Presbyters or Priests to euery Church for yâ— néere ouer sight thereof did notwithstanding care for all the Churches and visite them as opportunity was offred so it is yâ— duty of ours and their maine duty If any one faile herein Est quidem error personalis non legalis the fault is in the person not in the function confirmed by Law As for their Prerogariues what haue they wherein the Apostles exceeded not If they incarcerate persons by authority deriued lawfully from our Prince a thing which Infidelious Princes would not coÌ„mit to yâ— Apostles nor yet to any ChristiaÌ„ is therfore yâ— sword vnlawful to a ChristiaÌ„ in the roome therof the King of kings collated a farre greater power vpon them In so much as thereby S. Paulâ—mot â—mot Elymas the sorcerer with blindnes and S Peter smote Anamas and Sapphira with present sodaine death When the times begun to be ordinarily Christian then the Lord tooke away that extraordinary prerogatiue and conferred vppon his Church the ordinary meanes for protection and correction of bodies A weake despised Church they would haue her who being destitute of extraordinary power would haue her robbed of that which is ordinary also The Prophets could foretell that Kings of the earth should bring their honour and glory vnto it and these cannot abide it Yes they will say we would haue the Church not her ministry to haue it I beleeue it they would haue themselues and their lay children euected and the ministry deiected Euen as they expound that precept Tell the Church to bee tell Tom Tynker tell Dick Cullion tell Ione the oyster-wench with all the rest of their Ignorants such a Sanhedrim the Iewes neuer had so yâ— bringing of glory and honour vnto the Church must not be at all or almost not at all to the ministerie for they be but vassalls but to her Laicall members as being the only vessels capable of glory honour They would haue all power and dignity in their owne hands that so the ministery standing both in Need Awe of them they might be topped and ouertopped at their pleasure not daring once in their Sermons to touch their corruptions as they wold not haue their good Masters and good Dames to withdraw their Almes from them So indeede it would come to passe as it did in Ezechiels time wee should be glad to preach for a crust of bread and an handful of barley Malcon Indeede sir I must needes say it would come to no better Experience euery where will giue testimony vnto it But I beseech you sir another question how shall wee cleare that the Surplice is not an Idolothyte Medioc By the definition of an Idolothyte for an Idolothyte is whatsoeuer is dedicate or consecrate to an Idoll by way of deuotion But none of our Surplices haue been so deuoted therfore none of them Idolothytes If any can fetch out a Surplice that hath beene by the Papists consecrated to their Idol-idle masse such a one may be termed an Idolothyte and it skils not though it were burnt As for ours they be not such though like to such no more then the Animal-offerings of Israel vnder the lawe were Idolothytes howsoeuer like to the oblatioÌ„s of Aegypt out of which they made their exode and passage But that which is more if the idolatour had abused it may I not vse it The Apostle teacheth otherwise vnto the Corinthians he layes downe the case thus Of cattle offered vp to the Idols some part comes to the offerers and from them sometimes that part comes to the flesh market Some infidell buyes of it dresseth it and sets it before thee Let thy coÌ„science make no scruple to eate of it how soeuer it was Idolatrized for as the earth is the Lords not the Diuels so the fulnes thereof is his and created for the vse of his Yet this prouiso withall If any one at table with thée doe pointe at it and say certainly this is an Idolothyte I like it not then because of his conscieÌ„ce not because of thine let it alone for the Lord hath things know besides in the earth for thee to feede vpon Otherwise thou eating of it and giuing thankes to God for it why should another speake end of thee Hence it is plains that the children of God may lawfully vse any creature in the earth howsoeuer it haue beene by others prophaned Only in case of anothers weaknes he is to forbeare euen from his owne right This Prouiso I know is the maine of all their speech who kéepe such a stir about the poore garmeÌ„t but in pressing this prouiso they must take with them this they must confesse themselues to bee but as yet very yong Christians and not fitted to be Pastors ouer flocks of people no more then they were fit for ministeriall function which were but Neophyts newly come from heatheÌ„ Idolatry vnto Christianity for such were they of whom the Apostle speaketh And then it will followe first that they haue sinned in medling with the strongest function in the congregation being but as yet nouices in the faith Secondly that they deserue to be sharply censured for making their people weaker then they â—ound them who at first could brooke the Garment well but now must 〈…〉 as if it were an Idolothyte And if they say they knowe their owne Christian liberty therein but many about them will be offended I answere there be none about them that can as the former Neophyts plead tollerable infirmity All about them be Christians borne of Christian parents in the profession of Christianity for some thousand yeares and vpward Let them sée to it then if such their exception doe not growe not from infirmity but from wilful péeuishnes as willing to stick rather in their owne preiudged opinion then to â—eeled forward vnto Christ. With the Apostlo to the Colossians I say thus If they be dead with Christ from the ordinances of the world why as though they liued in the world are they burdened with traditions as touch not taste not haÌ„dle not wee say to shew the liberty wherewith Christ hath made theÌ„ free they ought to weare it They answere that they may not We say besides the former reason the Christian Princes commandement propounding it but as a garment for seemelines and order it ought to moue their conscience to the vse of it They answere it doth not PropouÌ„d what we shall they still with the superstitious Colossians doe returne vs a not as if their only study were to crosse Christ to crosse a Christian King and to crosse the Churches affirmatiue with their Ethelothreskia their Negatiue Not. Malcon I wonder how reading that place to the Corinths so often as I haue so well as this last to the Colossians I could
into an Angell of light that so mislead me and the fruit which I cropt was but the forbid-fruit the ruine of such as couer knowledge beyond knowledge wich Salomon vpon his Repentance calleth a Being-ouerwise Medioc The Apostle therefore commandeth that no man presume to vnderstād aboue that which is méete to vnderstād but that he vnderstand according to sobriety all one with his Mottie that writ vppon the errour on the right hand Malcon I pray you sir by the way know you the Author of that Booke intituled Errour on the right-hand Medioc I doe Malcon And what thinke you of his booke Medioc The man is so neere and deare vnto mee as I cannot speake what I thinke but I should be held partiall Yet this I dare say as he had experience in himselfe of the Flyers error so in the persons of others he by experience of disputation did wel obserue that if the first positions of Malcontent did hold currant then not onely would followe the Brow nists separation but also would followe the main positions of the Anabaptist and if of the Anabaptist then also of othres Malcon Was hee not then at some times caryed away or entangled with Anabaptisme Arianisme c Some conclude that by his booke hee should Medioc Uery wittily and conscionably I warrant you as if certaine of the Fathers as Epiphanius Augustine should haue been tainted sometimes with all Schismes and Heresies of their times because they writ against all Schismes and Heresies of their times A conclusion good enough for Tom-Scull sometimes of Immanuel Colledge in Cābridge But to leaue this By and to returne vnto y◠main namely the Subscription afore discoursed of It seemeth somwhat hard that subscription by our church shold bee pressed to all her conclusions agreed vpon in common as agreeing to the word of God Malcon It is so indeede Neither doth the former booke intituled Errour on the right hand decide that point as to to me it seemeth Medioc When you shall reade it with a lesse partiall spirit you shall obserue what yet it seemeth you haue not specially by the positions added to y◠hee le of that Booke But to leaue y◠and to come vnto the Scriptures for helping vs out of the Atheisticall consequents that follow their reasō of not subscribing You remember that of Iob it is thus recorded Hee was an vpright and iust man one that feared God and eschewed euill And the word Tám turned vpright is in propriety perfect was he such a one before God absolutely if so he should haue beene examined by the perfection of the Law Malcon Onely Christ could bee such a one Medioc Well in the first of S. Luke it is testified touching Zecharias and Elizabeth the parents of Iohn Baptist that both were iust before God and walked in all the commandements and ordinances of the Lord. Did S. Luke herein testifie truth Malcon It were blasphemy to say the contrary seeing therein he was but the pen man of the holy Ghost Medioc Were both of them so iust and had both of them so kept all the commandements as in nothing they had offended Malcon Doubtles no for all haue gone out of the way and all need grace and free pardon for sin else Christ vnto such died in vaine Medioc How then were they iust and how then did they kéep all the commandements Malcon Iustice and perfect obedience was imputed vnto them because their hearts were vpright in the maine of their conuersation howsoeuer they failed in the By through imbecillity and weaknesse Medioc And if God lay not the By to his childrens charge where the maine of their cariage is iust what are we that we shold once dare to lay the By vnto his churches charge being a whole corporation of his children and besides to make it an argument of brawling with our mother Salomon saith The eie that mocketh the Father and despiseth the instruction of the Mother let the Rauens of the valley picke it out and the yong Eagles eate it Malcon You in your wisedome haue inforced me to cut off the head of mine owne doubt Medioc Why alas doth not our Church hold that she erred in this life and could she be thought to hold a subscription against her owne Tenet Shée doth not presse inch subscription in an high absolute sense as if in none of her words or writings shee failed from the perfection of the word one of her 39 articles cleares that so well as all her Apologie doth against the pride of the Church of Rome in that point but she presseth conformity Secundùm quid according to that is due vnto her in this world as she hath receiued of God to be a faithful Dispensator of his will Nor otherwise could wee put a sufficient difference betwéene the Canonicall scriptures our writings For priuat conceits as you may haue yours I may haue mine a third may haue a third and so on without end must these be causes why euery of vs must exclaime one vpon another and all of vs agree in one to disturbe the Church So there shall neuer be communion neuer any order so consequently not any peace If she be a mother let her keepe her place remembring still that here she is but as Israel in the wildernes and if we be not bastards but true borne children let vs know our place and not with Corah Dathan Abiram rise vp against the congregation our mother for if we do the earth will desire to swallow vp our glory and we shal be but as they that went downe to the pit Oh Malcontent Malcontent if Quéene Maries scortching Beames were vpon vs againe wee would a thousand times be thankfull for the least cooling shade that our Lawrell gouernement affordeth But it is in such fulfilled whereof Moses long since sung He that should haue been vpright becomming once fat hath spurned with his heele Had not Manna béen so plenteous they would not so soone haue lothed and had not their mother béene so familiar shee had not beene so soone despised Nam nimia ingurgitatio facit ineptum nimia familiaritas parit contemptum They still haue in their mouthes wee must grow in grace grow in knowledge grow in obedience but when we examine their growth behold they go from good vnto bad from light vnto darknesse from obedience to disobedience from some order vnto none from some vnity to all sorts of faction First warring with their mother then iarring amongst themselues and lastly a loathing vnto all men So grew Israel in the wildernes from discontent vnto faction from faction vnto Schisme from Schisme vnto rebellion from rebellion to lifes confusion till the earth was weary of them the Sanctuary lothed them and the Lord slue them Malcon O Lord how nere this comes vnto me and how may I seale to the truth thereof from mine owne experience Reuerend sir I haue beene thus troublous vnto you but God I doubt