sayd a litle before that the church of Rome is fallen into most sinfull and deep defection and apostasie and so is a notorious harlot and idolatrâ—ss Wherefore his distinction here between the apostasie the church of Rome making the one Antichrist the other Gods temple under his covenant of grace neyther accordeth with the scriptures nor with his own assertion Next this where he sayth that by the Temple of God in Israel was figured the church of God among Christians it is graunted But withall let it be noted that himself can not deney but the Temple and tabernacle in Israel was not the church and congregation of Gods people properly but a sacramental signe of Gods dwelling with them which I before confirmed by these scriptures Exod 25. 8. 2. Chron. 6. 2. Ezek. 37. 26. 27. Rev. 21. 3. Secondly he himself affirmeth that the temple at Ierusalem did primarily figure out Christ and secondarily the church both the catholik or universal and particular churches likeweise particular Christians and in several respects both their bodies and their soules and consciences Vpon which graunts of his it foloweth that there is no necessarie consequence of this his proposition Jf the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie be the man of syn spoken of in 2. Thes. 2. then is the church of Rome the Temple of God there spoken of for he understanding by the church the people as in 1. Cor. 3. 16. 17. 2. Cor. 6. 16. Eph. 2 21. and yet granting that the Temple in Israel was not the people all may see the weaknes and insufficiencie of this inference that because the Pope of Rome sitteth as God in the Temple of God therfore the people of the church of Rome are that Temple of God there spoken of consequently Gods true church For why now may we not as well if not much better say that by the Temple of God is understood the doctrine and profession of Christ the true Temple or as in my former †book I shewed thus As the Temple was an outward signe of Gods presence with his people and of his inward dwelling in their harts * by saith and by his spirit unto their salvation so Antichrists temple is an outward shew of his presence with that seduced people in whose harts †he dwelleth by Popish faith and by his spirit of errour carying them to damnation But as Antichrist shal not professedly deny the true God or Christ though in deed he falsly * sheweth himself that he is God so shal hâ— not professedly deny the Temple or church of God but falsly vaunt his adulterous synagogue to be the same Vnto this exposition mine opposite hath given no answer and it being according to the scriptures trueth of the thing in controversie I leave it to the prudent reader whether the outward shew and profession of Christ and Christian religion be not the first thing here intended of th'Apostle by the Temple of God And this is further confirmed by Rev. 11. 1. Where the Temple Altar and Worshipers are three distinct things and the people are the worshipers there spoken of neyther the Temple nor the Altar of which place we shal treat anone Then wheras he granteth that the Temple in Ierusalem did primarily figure out Christ how is it that he wholly neglecteth the primarie thing figured and insisteth upon the secondary the church or people of Rome Seing it is knowen how the Pope pretendeth him self to be Christs vicar and deputie on earth and to be the servant and worshiper of Christ in heaven and may we think that th'Apostle in warning them of the mysterie of iniquitie would not imply the chief point of the mysterie that Antichrist should in pretence sit for Christ and in his sted as his vicar generall on earth Thus to sit in the Temple or for the Temple of God may well be understood that Antichrist should sit for Christ a pretended friend but in deed an adverse foe Now for that which the Temple secondarily figured namely the church catholik and also particular and so mens consciences he wavereth in his application He sayth this terme the church of Rome is taken eyther particularly which he applieth to the Laterane church in Rome the Popes parish church or more generally for all other such Christian churches as are come under the Popes jurisdiction c. This later I hold to be most proper here for what needed there such warning to the Thessalonians other christian churches through the world if a Bishop of the Lateran parish a corner in Rome had exalted himself above God therin onely and had not usurped also a pretended Christian power over all And the complement of the prophesie is an evident exposition of it for who knoweth not that the Pope scorneth to be Bishop of the Lateran parish onely it is a jurisdiction over the catholik church throughout the earth which he chalengeth And now what proof bringeth mine opposite that the church of Rome as God constituted it is taken generally for other Christian churches under the Popes jurisdiction None at all neyther can he bring any jote of Gods word for the same Againe what proof maketh he that the catholik Romane church wherin the Pope sitteth is the true church of God None but this J suppose these men themselves being better advised wil not deny them to be the churches and Temple of God But he should have shewed if it had been possible for him that the Romane church is by divine institution the catholik or universal church which because I assure my self it can never be doen I conclude that this Romane catholik church is a fiction of the Popes braine and a meere idol like himself and is no otherweise the Temple of God then the Pope is Christs universal vicar namely in lying words and vaine ostentation And so the maine ground for the Temple of God wherin Antichrist sitteth to be the true church of Christ is overthrowne As for the Popes Laterane parish I both deny it to be Christs true church and that it onely is the Temple of God wherin Antichrist should sit His proof of the former is this Jf we understand it of a particular church as the Apostle wrote his epistle to the church of the Romans how shall we soundly deny it eyther to be the Temple of God or Antichrist to be set therin Thus have we suppositions and questions in sted of proofes To his demand I answer it is the Temple of God in pretence not in trueth even as the Pope is a bishop of Christ in pretence but in deed is Antichrist the man of syn as mine opposite granteth The church that was in Rome in Pauls time wil no more justifie the Popes synagogue there now then the Christian ministers which were then in that church Rom. 12. wil justifie the Antichristian prelates that there reigne at this day Secondly the Laterane parish at Rome is of the
20. 4. Esai 63. 18. he now wil have them answerable to the Iewes I then blamed and stil doe that men should make Gods holy courts citie and people to be figures of Antichristians of their church and worship But mine opposite to make his words seem to hang togither sayth that now J teach that the Temple of God spoken of 2 Thes. 2. 4. is Antichrists Temple church bodie c. Be it so yet of that scripture there was no controversie betwen M. S. and me and as the house of the Lord God of Jsrael in Ezr. 1. 8. is meant of his true ten ple but the house of their God in Amos 2. 8. and in Hos. 9 8. is meant of an idolatrous Temple so by the Temple of God in Rev. 11. 1. may be understood his true Temple and yet the Temple of God in 2 Thes. 2. may be understood of the Temple of Antichrist And this I sayd upon mine opposites interpretatioÌ„ which wil have the Temple in 2 Thes. 2. to mean the people or church of Rome which are in deed the Gentiles in Rev. 11. the Sodomites Babylonians Egyptians that tread down the Lords holy citie and have built a new Babel For otherweise if he did understand Antichrists sitting in the Temple of God to be his treading down of his Temple as here he treadeth down the holy Citie having ruined and burnt it and keeps it from being reedified as the Babylonians did during their reigne I would not have contended with him about it But then his applying of it to the church of Rome which the Pope hath builded honoured garnished as a most gorgeous harlot would be altogither unfit and agree no better then Babylon did with Sion But of that place 2 Thes. 2. we have spoken at large before Wheras heretofore he pleaded that Antichrist doth not wholly take away the church of God and every trueth and ordinance of the Lord and I answered Neyther did the Deviltake away every trueth and ordinance of God from among the heathens but they reteyned many rites of Gods worship received from their fathers c. First he blameth me as shifting c. for not saying the Divil took not wholly away the church of God from among the heathens I answer if by church he understand the order and constitution of the church the heathens strayed not furder from it then Antichrist hath by his counterfei catholik church and whosoever wil bring them to the trial it wil soon appeare Or if he understand by Church Gods people as he hath now his people in this Romish Babylon Rev. 18. I also say that the Divil took not away the church wholly from the heathens for God had many elect among them whom by means he called from heathenish idols to the true faith of whom there are many instances of sundry persons in the scriptures and I doubt not but there were many moe whose names are written in the book of life The dispersion of Israel among the nations might bring many heathens to the faith as we have an instance in Esth. 8. 17. To that which I sayd that the Divil did not take away wholly every truth and ordinance of God from among the heathen he answereth it is nothing to the purpose seing they are not the church and people of God under his covenant neyther doe so injoy any of them Answ. First I spake of the heathens of old whiles sacrificing was Gods ordinance as the examples that I alleaged shew He answereth of the heathens now whose state is much worse by refusing or falling from the Gospel Secondly his answer is true also of the Antichristian heathens Rev. â—1 2. if it be applied unto them for they are not Gods church and people under his covenant neyther doe they so injoy any of them but they are in the bondage and covenant of Antichrist as before is proved So my answer was to purpose his reply is but the begging of the question Object Take an instance sayth he in one of the particulars which he mentioned where he sayd that the heathens reteyn baptismes or washings among them yet when any of them leave that estate and come to the faith and church of Christ they are to be baptised into the Lords name c. but so may not be doen with those that have received baptisme in the church of Rome or any other apostate churches when they leave such estate c. Answ. First he wresteth my words spoken of the heathens of old which reteyned baptismes or washings whiles they were Gods ordinances and applieth them to their washings now when they are none of Gods ordinances I sayd the ordinances of God reteyned in other nations besides Israel as Altars sacrifices c and alleaged authors before Christs coming in the flesh he setteth down these as my words the heathens reteine c. Had I thus altered the case I should have been charged with shifting and that justly But I acknowledge not tho legal washings sacrifices altars c. of Gentiles or Iewes to be God's ordinances now as they were before Christs death That which he sayth of baptisme not to be repeated I grant and so must he have doen for circumcision among the heathens such as reteyned it for a divine ordinance as they did their sacrifices I instanced the Colchians Egyptians Ethiopians and the Samaritans which latter Mr. Iohnson acknowledged to have still used circumcision and yet were not Gods true Church But this he passed over and answereth not Now he would bring in the heathenish washings at this day which is a plaine tergiversation But of Baptisme we shall speak more hereafter Of Revel 18. 4. TO prove the church of Rome at this day Gods true church he alleadged Rev. 18. 4 Goe out of her my people c. I answered These very words are taken from Jer. 51. 45. My people goe out of the midst of her where by My people the Church of Babylon is not meant but the Israelites Gods lost sheep scattred there upon the mountaines and hills whom first the King of Ashshur had devoured and lastly Nebuchadnerar King of Babel had broken their bones having burned Jerusalem and the temple with fyre c. These Israelites figuring Gods elect are called out of Babylon which God would utterly destroy c. So from Antichrists church which is Babylon Sodom Egypt are Gods elect called out an evident proof that she is none of Gods church whatsoever she pretendeth c. His replies are questions Very well sayth he But are not those words My people the words of the covenant as J sayd Answ. They are but not of any covenant with Babylon and consequently not with the church of Rome which is Babylon at this day Rev. 17. 5. 2. And were not that people now in Babylon the church and people of God under his covenant Answ. They were Gods people and his lost sheep there but their Common wealth
time of their apostasie 2 King 9. 6. c. I answered the Question was not hereby prooved For 1. The Antichristian church is Babylon Rev. 16. 19 and 18. 2. and out of her that is Babylon are Gads people called Rev 18. 4. Now to prove her Gods church they flee to Jsrael wheras the Gentiles were her true types Rev. 11. 2. 9 18. though all the wickednes and hypocrisie of apostate Israel is also found in this Romish Babel His reply is Let the reader judge whether the point in hand touching that phrase of Gods people to imply the covenant of God be not proved by the example of Jsrael Ans. I leave it also to judgment whether the Question touching the church of Rome be proved hereby As for the phrase of Gods people in that church I never denyed it to imply the covenant of God to some visibly as the Martyrs of Christ killed in that church to other some according to the election of grace which shal appeare when they obey theyr calling and are come out of her as before I shewed Moreover he sayth the question was about the Temple of God 2. Thes. 2. wherabout he alleaged that terme and estate of the people of God Rev. 18. 4. but J flee to Babylon c. Answ. A plaine evasion The question was about the church of Rome as before I shewed from his own graunt To justifie her to be Gods church he alleaged 2 Thes. 2. for one proof Rev. 1◠for an other Rev. 18. 4. for a third and now the state of Israel for a fourth His other repetitions I have answered before I alwayes distinguished in Rev. 11. between the Gentiles the Antichristians and the holy citie and court which they have destroyed troden under foot and stil doe Neyther have I denyed but the idolaters in Iudah and Israel were types of Antichristians in part but this I sayd and still say that the more full and perfect type of them is by the holy Ghost shewed us to be in the Sodomites Egyptians and Babylonians Rev. 11. 17. 18. As the Priests of Aaron were types of Christ but Melchisedek was a more full and perfect type of him as the Apostle proveth in Heb. 7. Againe if that which he striveth for were granted him namely that Israel in apostasie typed out Antichristians and that Israel was notwithstanding a true church yet wil it not follow therefore the Antichristian church of Rome is a true church also For the apostasie and idolatrie of Rome is farr greater then Israels as I have elswhere shewed and can easily confirme against any that shall gainsay it 2. Mr. Io. himself maketh Antiochus and his captaines which were of the worst sort of heathens to be types and figures of the Pope and his hierarchie which are the Bishops priests and Deacons of the church of Rome as before we have seen Yet would he not admitt of this conclusion therfore the Bishops Priests and Deacons of the church of Rome are heathens as was Antiochus So his reasoning for Israel though it were true will be no sound proof for Rome Types figures and similitudes hold in some things not in all and it is a very easy thing to deceive men by figures similies allegories But the plaine doctrines in the scripture they are a sure ground and if any doe wrest a type or similitude against them it is to be rejected what colour soever it hath Now mine opposite reasoneth not from these doctrines which would soon end the strife For the scripture plainely sayth that Antichrist the man of syn is the son of perdition and all that beleeve his lyes and folow him are damned 2 Thes. 2. 3. 10. 11. 12. That Antichrist is a lyar denying both the Father and the Son 1 Ioh 2. 22. they that are of God doe overcome him they that are of the world hear him Hereby is knowen the spirit of trueth and the spirit of errour 1 Joh. 4. 3. 6. They that belong to the Lamb Christ on mount Sion have his Fathers name written on their foreheads Rev. 14. 1. and worship not the beast nor receive his mark Rev. 20. 4. but they that belong to Antichrist and have not their names written in the book of life doe worship the beast and receive his mark and shal be tormented for ever Rev. 13. 8. 16. 14. 9. 10. 11. But the church of Rome beleeveth Antichrists lyes worshipeth the Beast and his idols receiveth his mark and is partaker of all his abominations Who now without open injurie to the word of God can make this people the true church of Christ and in the visible covenant of grace On the other hand my Opposites reasons are drawen from that figurative phrase the Temple of God 2 Thes. 2. and the type of apostate Israel and an objection cast in the way to stumble at that else we must be baptised againe as if men that can not tell how to avoyd an inconvenience must run into a mischief to justifie those whom God cōdemneth And upon these and the like grounds are his reasons framed as may be seen throughout his work with some few props of humane authoritie to undershore them Though this brief answer might serve unto all his discourse about the state of Israel yet for to help the weak reader that might stumble at some things layd in his way I wil annex a few moe observations Vnder his wonted title of Errours evasions contradictions c wherwith he chargeth me this is 1. That the Temple of God 2 Thes. 2. 4. is no more Gods temple then Ieroboams idol temples in Jsrael and Bels temple in Babylon yet also J sayd it was to be understood of Gods church people invaded and destroyed by Antichrist c. Answ. This his tautologie I have before answered and cleared my self both of errour and contradiction For that Antichrist should destroy Gods temple and church I proved by the example of the Babylonians burning the Citie Temple of God and captiving his people and by the measuring of the new building Rev. 11. That this being doen Antichrist should have an other Temple and church of his own frame which he should call Gods and Christs I shewed by the Beast arising from the sea and from the earth with hornes like the Lamb Christ Rev. 13. which beast is a kingdom spiritual or ecclesiastical politie a great whore Rev. 17. by Antichrist adified adorned mainteyned which stil he pretendeth to be the ancient catholik church and temple of God Now further for Ieroboam that drew Israel into syn he confesseth that he was a type of Antichrist though he sheweth not wherin But Ieroboams syn was in making a new House or Temple and a new altar to sacrifice in unto God and new priests with new signes as Calves to worship God by 1 King 12. In these things then he must be a type of Antichrist who accordingly if he answereth to his figure must erect
c at Ierusalem Thus this new church and ministerie arising from Ieroboams syn was not of God and therfore could not possibly be a true church which alwayes is a divine ordinance in Christ the head of the same Touching their second estate after that God had called them back unto him by all his Prophets but they would not heare and chastised them seven times and seven that is many times for their sinns hee brought the land into desolation and scattred them among the heathen so the land did spue them out as it spued out the heathens that were before them the Lord did put her away and gave her a bill of divorce Jer 3. 8. and they were Lo-ammi not Gods people neither was he their God Hos. 1. 9. they were not his wife neither was he their husband Hos. 2. 2. In which estate they abiding without King Prince sacrifice image ephod or Teraphim were as scattred sheepe devoured by the King of Assyria and therefore no Church nor Common wealth but so broken that they were not a people Esai 7. 8. The next errour he chargeth me with is that I say If they cannot prove Babylon in Chaldea to be Gods Church when the Iewes were there captived they shall never prove the Temple of God spoken of in 2. Thes. 2. 4. to be Gods true Church c. Answ. He hath falsified my words and not answered my reason Thus I wrote Their applying of these things to our times is not in all poynts aright For though in this Antichrists synagogue and Israels doe agree that neither be Gods true Church yet the perfect type of Rome as God describeth it is Babylon Rev 17. 18. and we should not be wiser then God And if they cannot prove Babylon then to be Gods true Church which was not more deep in sin then now Antichrist is and which citie had promise and performance of mercie in Christ at the end they shal never prove this synagogue of Satan to be Gods true Church which hath no promise of recovery or mercie but prophesies and threatnings of assured destruction Numb 24. 24. Rev. 14. 9. 10. 18. 8 21. 19 20. 21. 2. Thess. 2. 8. 12. Thus men may see what manner of replies he hath made unto me and when he hath no other thing to say he flyeth to his wonted refuge The Temple of God and sayth our question and reasoning was about it as if it were not about the Church of Rome but about a phrase that we contended But hereof I have spoken at large For the word Church taken sometime largely sometime strictly he taxeth me for omitting this Answ. Why should I not omit that whereabout is no controversie That which Keckerman whom he citeth sayth of the Church largely taken to comprehend both the elect and hypocrites and strictly taken to comprehend the elect onely I acknowledge for truth But it is nothing to our controversie For his double regard of apostate Churches and so of Israel I yeilded to him that which was truth and shewed wherein he missed wherto as he replieth not but referreth it to the readers judgment so do I. I shewed how the Iewes at this day professing the God of Israel and praying to him and reading his Law in their synagogues may be called Gods people in comparison of Pagans that know not God or his scriptures at all but worship the Sun and Moon and some the Divil by open profession yet the Iewes now are not actually in the covenant of grace And the the Turks that professe one immutable living true most wise and high God and Christ to be sent of God with his Gospel and that he is the Breath or Spirit of God may in comparison of Julian the Apostata and Atheists be called the people of God and Christians though indeed they be farr from being either So the church of Rome in comparison with Turkes and Paynims may be called Christians but are indeed false Christians c. To that of the Jewes he answereth nothing For the Turks he maketh it nothing to the purpose seeing they professe not Christ to be the Son of God made Man that died for our synns as the Church of Rome professeth c. Answ. It is to the purpose that in divers respects and in comparison with Atheists and people that professe not God or Christ at all they that are not indeed Gods people or true Christians may be called Gods people and Christians so his double respectâ— help him nothing And for the Church of Rome I shewed them to be in comparison with Turks neerer Christ and so the doctrine there neerer to salvation then the Mahometans and I doubt not but God by it saveth some chosen therein which yet justifieth not their estate to be a true Christian Church as the reprobates in the true Church condemne not the estate thereof I shewed by many instances the Church of Rome to be in some things more grosse idolaters then either Iewes or Turkes or heathens This he being not able to deny opposeth how Jerusalem justified Samaria and Sodom Ezek. 16. Jer. 3. That Tyre Sidon and Sodom shal have easier judgement then Chorazin Bethsaida and Capernaum Mat. 11. yet these cities were the Churches and people of God Answ. For Ierusalem the Prophets speak of it sometime as generally wicked when yet there were many godly that partaked not with her synns Ezek. 9. 4. Such as were more openly wicked then Samaria and Sodom I deny them to be actually then in the covenant of grace to mans judgement for the Lord appointed them to destruction Ezek. 9. The cities of Israel in Christs time were a part of the true Church of the Iewes yet for refusing Christ they should have heavier judgement then the heathens so shall hypocrites in every true Church have greater punishment then many heathens But comparison should be made of Church with Church not of some in the true Church with the estate of a false church And that the generall state of the Church of Rome is Antichristian and so denieth indeed both the Father and the Son is before proved And they generally these many years haue been more grosse idolaters then either Iewes or Turks therefore their profession of Christ in name will not prove them to be in the covenant of grace God testifieth to the Churches of Galatia Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are justified by the Law ye are fallen from grace Gal. 5. 4. If they that would be justified by the Law of God and works of the same fell from grace much more they that will be justified by the law of Antichrist and wicked workes are fallen from grace and have no benefit by Christ. But such is the generall faith of the Church of Rome beleeving to be justified by the idolatrous workes which they walk in as they are taught by the Man of Syn that
of 40. yeeres in the wildernes were uncircumcised till Iosuahs reigne Jos. 5. 2. 6. yet with them in that estate Moses renewed the covenant to bee the Lords people and that hee would bee their God as he had sworn to their fathers Deut. 29. 10. 13. And whereas mine opposite boldly affirmeth that all the writers in the world prove no such matter viz. touching Gods ordinances given to the heathens the sonns of Noe for signes of salvation it will appeare otherweise even by the greatest enemies of the heatheÌ„s the Iewes themselves Who though they gloried in circumcision and the Lawes given by Moses yet thus they write Jt is lawful for an heathen to offer burnt offrings unto God in every place and he himselfe may offer in an high place which he hath builded But it is not lawful for an Jsraelite to help him c. for behold we are forbidden to offer without the Sanctuarie Levit. 17. And it is lawful to teach them and to learn them how they should offer to the name of the blessed God Maimony in Misn. treat of Offring sacrifices chap. 19. s. 16. Thus by the Hebrewes testimony the Gentiles might lawfully use sacrificing in their own lands on their altars c. and the Iewes might instruct them to doe it aright though they themselves might not doe it with them being restreyned of God And as for the state of grace and salvation with God they also say Whosoever receiveth the seven commandements given to the sonns of Noe of which I have spoken elsewhere and whereof circumcision was none and doth them he is of the saincts of the nations of the world and he hath a portion in the world to come that is in eternall life if he receive them and doe them because the holy blessed God hath commanded them c. Maimony in Misn. treat of Kings chapt 8. s. 11. Thus mine opposite needed not to have made it so strange what I wrote of the state of the Gentiles nor have called it an idle flourish had he duly weighed their estate as Gods word and humane writers bear witnes of it But this indeed is admirable sayth he that he should account the heathens superstitions to bee Gods ordinances and yet esteem the circumcision and other ordinances of God had in Israel to be lying and deceitful signes c. Besides in all his bead-roule of Writers there is no mention at all of circumcision whereabout our question is c. Answ. 1. I called both the one and the other the ordinances of God in respect of their divine institution The other nations that fell from God and the Israelites that fell from God I count them all abusers of Gods ordinances which were not in their use of them true signes and seales of eternall life unto them but false and deceitfull Thus I match them alike without respect of persons as I am taught by the Apostle Rom. 2. 9. 10. 11. 12. The heathens superstitions if he mean things of their own devising I never esteemed Gods ordinances at all no nor Romes superstitions at this day 2 That circumcision is not in the bead-roule as he calleth it hee need not marvell seeing it was not commanded the heathens as before I have shewed It seemeth hee had a speciall fansie to circumcision above all other Gods ordinances otherwise why might not he think that it might be prophaned as much as any other There was no more holines in it then in the sacrifices And the Apostle sayth Jf thou be a breaker of the Law thy circumcision is made uncircumcision Rom. 2. 25. what then will it availe that Israel had circumcision when they broke the Law yea were without the true God and without Law 2. Chron. 15. 3. and sacrificed to Divils Deut. 32. 17. 2. Chron. 11. 15. Finally here he seeketh for circumcision where it was not to be found but within three leâ—es after in my book I instanced some among the nations circumcised even by his owne confession and there he hath passed it over without answer as if he had not seen it Such intreatie and worse I bear at his hand with patience Let me here adde the testimony of a learned man Mr. Calvin in his Sermon against idolatrie upon Psal. 16. 4. hath these words There are diverse which at this day use another starting hole for confessing that it is a detestable thing to mingle themselves with the idolatries of the Paynims they wil not that this extend it self to the superstitions of the papacie as though all the impieties of the Paynims had not been the corruptions of the true service of God From whence I pray you drew the Paynims all their ceremonies but from the holy Fathers The mischief was that they corrupted that which was wel instituted of God And yet al the abominations that were in the world had this goodly cloke of the name of God and of Religion but this made them not therefore justifiable neither might the faithful communicate with them Of Mr. Iunius iudgement for the church of Rome IN my brief answer to the things which mine opposite alleged from Mr. Iunius whose treatise they have printed the second time he taxeth me for omitting many clauses in that work But I then and still doe hold it ynough to take away the mayn grounds which being doen the other of lesser moment will be also found insufficient I shewed by the scriptures the Church of Rome now to bee an other and not that church which was in Pauls time therefore no just proportion to be between them In sted of disproving that which I shewed he after his manner asketh a question Whether J think these the Man of syn with his worshipers come in the place of the ancient true Church be the Temple of God the people of God under the covenant of God having the baptisme of God c. or whether there be no such there at all though corrupted and abused Answ. I have often told him and proved by Gods word that this present church of Rome is not Gods true Temple or people under his covenant having his baptisme but a false church arisen since vainly pretending the church covenant and baptisme of Christ. Seeing Gods word moveth them not let it be lawfull for me to oppose mans authority to mans D. Whitakers answering Bellarmine sayth This church succeedeth the Apostles indeed but as a den of theeves doth the house of God and as an harlot doth the faithful citie Jt reteineth the chests and coffers wherein of old the tresure was as Chrysostom elsewhere writeth but hath lost the treasure it selfe Jt is no more Bethel the house of God but Bethaven that is the house of vanitie or lies Yea Mr. Iunius himself hath thus well written of it The Church of Christ is sayd to fight against the Pseudo-christian or falsely called christian church over the which Antichrist ruleth Also when Bellarmine citeth Tertullian marveilously praising Rome Iunius
is also true but should have this addition taught of the holy Ghost To such as keep his covenant that remember his commandements to do them Psal. 103. 17. 18. For if we deny him he also wil deny us 2. Tim. 2. 12. That God hath regard to his covenant in Apostaticall churches and estate is also true but barely by him set down without shewing how That Moses teacheth us in Levit. 26. namely that the Israelites for their apostasie and forsaking of God should be chastised and if they would not amend they should at last be scattred among the heathen and perish among them and they that are left if they confesse their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers and if their uncircumcised hearts be humbled c. then God will remember his covenant with Iakob and will not cast them away nor abhorr them to destroy them utterly to breake his covenant with them but will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors 4. The fourth of Christs dying once and our being once baptised I also grant 5. The fift that the Church of Rome was espoused to Christ and had his baptisme in the Apostles dayes is true But where he addeth that she hath ever since reteined it with other grounds of Christian religion there he goeth too farr For many grounds of Christian religion she hath forsaken as all that are not Papists will acknowledge Wherefore he addeth a qualification either for faith or order or both in whole or in part This is so large as will bring in not onely the heathens of old but all the old condemned heretickes in the Apostles dayes and after yea even the very Iewes and Turkes at this day For in part they retein the grounds of Christian religion It is a ground of Christian religion to beleeve that there is one God and that the very Divils as the Apostle sayth doe beleeve Iam. 2. 19. But not to goe so farr as I grant him that the Papists in baptisme retein Christs ordinance in whole or in part so he cannot deny but also in the Lords Supper now turned to an abominable idolatrous Masse they reteyn Christs ordinance in whole or in part and so in other their abominations The Pope himselfe the great Antichrist the son of perdition reteyneth Christian religion in part The image of God wherein he made man at the first Gen. 1. 26. remaineth in all men still in part as the Scriptures testifie Gen. 9. 6. Iam. 3. 9. Wherefore if the reteyning of things in part holdeth men still in the state of grace and salvation who then shall be damned What a wide gate is here opened into the kingdom of heaven that if men reteyn Christian religion either for faith or order or both in whole or in part they remain still in the church and covenant of grace which is quite contrary to the doctrine of Christ and of his Apostles Math. 7. 13. 14. 22. 23. 1. Cor. 6. 9. 10. Gal 5. 19. 20. 21. 6. His sixt reason from the Iesuites profession made in their Rhemes Testament c I have before answered it being in his second argument made for the church of Rome And that which he addeth of their baptising with water in the name of the Father c is of no more weight to justifie their baptisme then the like elements of bread and wine and the words of Christs institution This is my body c are to justifie the Popish Masse to be the true supper of our Lord. Of which Mass to omitt that which many others have written of the abomination of it Mr. Calvin sayth thus The Mass â—n itself is a ronouncing of the death of Jesus Christ and a sacrilege forged by Satan utterly to abolish the sacrament of the Supper 7. His seventh reason that Iewes and Pagans are turned to the popish Christian â—aith was also refured in answer to his second reason brought for the church of Rome The conclusion that there needeth no repeating of baptisme as there was none of circumcision is granted and by me never denyed 8. Likeweise his eight reason that God hath his people in the Romish Babylon Rev. 18. 4. under his covenant of grace is before answered But he should have proved if he could that Babylon itself which is the church of Rome is under the covenant of grace that I deny the holy Ghost shewing in Rev. 17. 18. ch that she is under wrath and destruction He sayth the children of that church should plead with their mother as the Prophets taught and dealt with Jsrael of old Hos 2. 2. 3. 1. 4. 1. 2. 12. c that she take away her fornications out of her sight c. It is true so they should but why doth this man diminish from the word of God For the Prophets words are Plead with your mother plead for she is not my wife neyther am J her husband let her therfore â—ut away her whordomes c Hos. 2. 2. Thus doe I plead against this mother church of Rome but my opposite blameth me and pleadeth for her she is the wife of Christ and not divorced as before we have heard Baptisme sayth he is not of her adulteries but of Christs ordinances True so is the Lords supper so is excommunication not of her adulteries but of Christs ordinances and we reteyn them from Christ. But that whorish church hath corrupted and adulterated all these and other ordinances of Christ turned them to abominable idolatries and lyes for which we also plead against her and her synfull abuse of these divine ordinances shall nor justify but the more condemne her 9. To his ninth and last reason if baptisme be renounced then also the articles of â—aith the Scriptures and translations likewise mariages dissolved c. I answer Farr be it that we should renounce any good thing whith the church of Rome abuseth any more then Paul renounced the true God whom the Athenians ignorantly worshiped Aoâ— 17. 23. Whatsoever is of divine institution among Papists Iewes Turks or heathens we renounce it not but their profanation and abuse of holy things we doe renounce Neither can wee justifie their estate or any holy thing in their sinfull abuse of it â— though we put difference between the things which in their owâ—â— nature are good and the persons which are evill Thus men maâ— see how weak and without edge his reasons are to justifie the bap tisme in the church of Rome to be in their use of it the true seale of Gods covenant of grace in Christ unto them Next this he setteth himselfe to answer objections The first wherof he maketh this But the baptisme had in the Church of Rome iâ— not true baptisme but an idol and lying signe a detestable and cursed sacrament a fiction and not true Christian baptisme no better then when we wash our owne face with water dayly c. Answ. That it
the Papists that worship them as Gods have not made them idols to themselves And under this shelter of falshood he shrowdeth himself when he hath nought else to answer repeting it I know not how often 7. That the Romish baptisme is a lye in the right hand of all that so receive it Where the Prophet speaketh of idols that by nature are no Gods c. Jf the Romish baptisme were in the nature of it no baptisme c then should it without question be renounced as a very idol in deed c. Answ. Belike then he would have us take it for no lye but for a truth that popish baptisme giveth grace and washeth away syn by the work doen. Neyther is it a lye but truth that bread in their Mass is very Christ really properly as he died on the cross To apply Esa. 44. 20. against these things is to hold an errour Wel let my errour continue with me for I trust I shall alwayes hold that they are lyes in the right hand of all that so receive them And as the prophet speaketh of thē that by nature were no Gods so doe I. For neyther is water in Baptisme not wine in the Masse Christs blood naturally neyther can they doe that which onely Christs blood effecteth And how ever there is difference between the idols of false Gods and the idols of the true God yet the scripture calleth them all Divils Deut. 32. 17. 2 Chron. 11. 15. 1 Cor. 10. 20. so I call them all lyes And where he sayth if it were in the nature of it no baptisme he might have knowen that Gods true ordinance of baptisme turned into a lye maketh it a lying baptisme and yet some baptisme it is though not the true Wherof the lye being put away and the truth restored of God unto us there need no other renunciation as before I have proved His other repetitions and questions of the same thing need no further answer Obj. How wil he shew that baptisme is so received as standing in the place of Christ c. seing they are infants usually that receive it there c. Answ. Even as he wil shew against the Anabaptists that baptisme is truly and rightly received in Christian churches where they are infants usually that receive it For as the covenant of Christ is to parents and their seed so the covenant of Antichrist is to parents and their seed even the covenant of destruction that their babes be dashed against the Rock Psal. 137. 9. Esa. 13. 16. The infants of Iewes are Iewes the infants of Turks are Turks the infants of Christians are Christians so the infants of Antichristians are Antichristians Obj. Considering also their profession of Christ and baptising with water in the name of the Father Son and holy Ghost and that this alone is in deed the baptisme of that church the other things being but erroneous opinions and synfull additions c. Answ. We have before considered that the profession of that church is all one with the profession of the Pope who eyther is not Antichrist or else he denyeth both the Father and the Son as the Apostle sayth 1 Joh. 3. 22. how ever in word he confesseth both 2. As they baptise with water in the name of the Father c so they consecrate their Supper or Mass with bread and wine and the words of Christs institution Mat. 26. why doth he not also affirme that their Mass is no idol no lye in the hands and mouthes of them that receive it as their maker and eat their God more profanely then the heathens 3. It is untrue that that alone which he mentioneth is in deed the baptisme of that church in deed it ought to be but so it is not He might as well say their praiers to God are the onely prayers of that church for by divine institution so it should be but it is knowen they pray also to innumerable creatures 4. I grant the other things are but erroneous opinions and synfull additions and he also must grant that all the idolatrie of the heathens condemned in Rom. 1. were but erroneous opinions and synfull additions contrary to the covenant which God had made with them in Noes dayes Gen. 9. 9. 10. 11. c. Were it not for erroneous opinions and synfull additions all men now should be in that perfect estate wherin at first we were created Eccles. 7. 29. 8. That the Romish baptisme is such as the saying of the Apostle is verified in it an idol is nothing in the world 1 Cor. 8. 4. c. Jf so then the baptisme of that church hath no relation to God nor any divine institution representation or signification in it c. Then it ought of necessitie to be rejected c. Answ. If th'Apostles doctrine be true of idols that they are nothing 1 Cor. 8. 4. he ought not to kick against it or me for alleging it To his inference I answer it hath no true relation unto Gods covenant which is not with that Antichristian church but a false pretended relation it hath as their other sacrament of the Mass or supper where also there is a lying relation to Christs sacrifice which they blasphemously renew crucifying dayly the Lord of glorie To his conclusion he hath oft been answered we reject the idol wholly and reteyn onely the truth so farr as God by his word hath sanctified it unto us without eyther grosse Anabaptistry or notorious blasphemie which with open mouth he chargeth us would fray the simple with 9. That water the material thing in popish baptisme is as the gold and silver that is the matter of the idols spoken of Psal. 115. 4. wher as the use of water in baptisme is appointed by the Lord and stil to be reteyned Ioh. 1. 33. c. but the use of gold for idols is forbidden and utterly to be abandoned Exod. 20. 23. Deut. 7. 25. 26. c. Answ. He corrupteth my words I sayd An idol for the matter and workmanship is somthing Psal. 115. 4. but for the relation unto God it is nothing So Popish baptisme as touching the material thing is somwhat the salt water oile are Gods creatures the outward action is the work of the hands of an idolatrous preist and this work remayneth as did the work of the idolaters circumcising in Jsrael c. This he maketh an errour in me which all that have knowledge wil easily see to be trueth But the use of water in baptisme sayth he is appointed by the Lord. True unto the Christian church it is so but the use of water in popish idol baptisme or of bread and wine in the Popish mass was never appointed by the Lord this was the point he should have proved As God sayd to the Iewes bring no more vaine oblations incense is an abomination unto me Esa. 1. 13. so sayth he to the Antichristians make no more vaine baptisings the Masse is an abomination to me Mine opposite
Elias prayer against Israel and Gods answer J have reserved to my self 7000. men who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal Even so then sayth he at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace c. By this we are taught 1. That if a few or any one of a people be reserved of God though the multitude be cast away yet it cannot be sayd absolutely that God hath cast away his people And this may lead us to understand why God called Israel his people in their apostasie because some he kept from falling into it some he brought out of it by repentance 2. That those are in deed Gods people whom he foreknew the rest are cast off Now those which are foreknowen of God are described thus that he also did predestinate them to be conformed to the image of his sont them he also called them he also justified them he also glorified Rom. 8. 2◠〈◊〉 Thus are we led to judge who are Gods people when we see their calling justifying and gloryfying that is their sanctification â— Cor. 3â— â—8 by which iâ— charitie we are to judge of their predestination and estate in grace 3. That as the remnant of the Iewes which imbraced the gospel were the election of grace that is the people whom in charitie we should judge to be elected of God according to his grace and the others are blinded hardned cast off til God give them repentance so in Israel they that kept themselves from the coÌ„mon idolatrie of Baal inwardly and outwardly and reteyned the true service of God were his election of grace and to be judged his true people the others that synned in Baal were dead til God gave them repentance unto life Thus the Apostles exposition and application of those 7000. in Israel may help us to judge of their estate aright And not because circumcision was unto them the seale of grace and of forgivenes of synns to conclude that therfore it was likeweise to them that served Baal for so we should prostitute Gods grace and the seals therof to such as God condemneth and rejecteth Fiftly he instanceth the worship of Baal by Iudah Ier. 7. Judg. 2. c. Wherto I answer as before that Iudah in her constitution remayned a true church though corrupted Israel being a false church as hath been manifested Neyther was the defection universall and open as in Israel As for such in Iudah as so fell from God and would not be brought to repentance the Prophet telleth them they trusted in lying words when they sayd The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord c. Ier. 7. 4. 8. the Lord threatneth to cast them out of his sight and forbad his Prophet to pray for them Jer. 7. 15. 16. So their circumcision became unto them uncircumcision Rom. 2. 25. To this he objecteth Though mans idolatrie c may make Gods sacraments improfitable to himself yet can they not make them lying and deceitfull signes but that in the Lords ordinance they are unto all and therfore also unto them his true signes and faithfull seals on his part of forgivenes of synns and life eternal For shall the infidelitie of man turne the truth of God into a lye God forbid Answ. I have before answered that all Gods ordinances are in them selves and on his part holy faithfull and true They are true seals of forgivenes of synns but to such as are worthy partakers of them in faith otherweise they seale judgment unto men 1 Cor. 11. 27. 28 29. And it is not his ordinance that open and obstinate idolaters and wicked men should administer or receive them Ezek. 44. 9. Numb 15. 30. 31. Levit. 7. 20. Psalm 〈◊〉 1â— 17. That men may turne the truth of God into a lye the Apostle plainly teacheth Rom. 1. 25. so may they the truth of his ordinances into lyes But the truth of God as it is in himself or his faithfulnes is unchangeable if men beleeve not or sanctifie him not they perish by the judgment of God which is according to trueth and his faithfulnes suffreth him not to save such unless he make them first new creatures and beleevers Joh. 3. 36. 1. Joh. 5. 10. 12. Sixtly he expoundeth Israels death in Hos. 13. 1. to be by the exposition of sundry writers not death in syn but slayn for their synns or their estate overthrowen or neer utter destruction c. Answ. Both may be true that first they were dead in syn and after destroyed civilly for their syn Gods judgmeÌ„ts are according to mens deserts he destroyed not the Amorites Egyptians and other nations til their iniquitie was full Gen. 15. 16. Wherfore to condemne the exposition which I gave because an other consequent folowed upon it as the ruine of Achabs house or the like is no fitme argument And to his many expositors whom he citeth I oppose one greater then all even th'Apostle in Rom. 11. before spoken of who sheweth the election of grace to be in the 7000 that worshiped not Baal and not in the multitude of the Baalists And if they were not of the election of grace then were they dead in syn though he and many say the contrary Finally he alleageth the sayings of the Prophet before and after The Lord found Iakob in Bethel and there he spake with us c Therfore turne thou to thy God c. Hos. 12. 4. 5. 6. 9. And yet am J the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt and thou shalt know no God but me I did know thee in the wildernes c. Hose 13. 4. 5. Answ. I have before shewed that the prophets speak to Israel as a corporation or body which after a sort continueth one and the same through many generations when yet as touching their particular persons or generations they are different contrary as godly fathers in the state of grace and life may beget wicked children without grace and in state of death Ezek. 18. 9. 10. 13. 14. 17. 18. c. So the King of Tyre had been in Eden the garden of God a proselyte in the Church Ezek. 28. 13. not that heathen king then living but his predecessor Huram long before 1. King 5. So Paul speaketh of the Iewes cast away of God as the same people till their last calling Rom. 11. And I doubt not but a man preaching to convert them at this day might apply unto them the like sayings I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt thou shalt know no God but me J led thee in the wildernes c. But alwayes in such general phrases the promises of grace belong onely to such as beleeve and turne to the Lord the others that remaine hardned shall perish And hitherto of his exceptions against the scriptures which I cited although as I shewed if they had continued Gods true church in the land yet wheÌ„ they were for obstinacie in their synns cast
to refresh the wearie soules Her doctrines sweet and amiable lyes spoken in hypocrisie Prov. 5. 3. 1 Tim. 4. 2. but yet confirmed with signes and miracles as if they came from heaven 2 Thes. 2. 9. Rev. 13. 13. 14. her power efficacie great prevailing over the many and the mightie the Kings and Princes of the world deceiving all nations with her inchantments Prov. 7. 21. 26. Rev. 17. 2 18. 23. and if it were possible Gods very elect Math. 24. 24. Her continuance and outward prosperitie is long Rev. 13. 5. 18. 7. 20. 2. 4. her end miserable Rev. 18. 19. 21. 19. 20. 21. consumed with the spirit of the Lords mouth and abolished with the brightnes of his coming 2 Thes. 2. 8. And for her destruction the heavens shall rejoyce and sing praises to God Rev. 18. 20. 19. 1. 2. The accomplishment of these prophesies I there shewed to be in the Church of Rome at this day confirmed by her own canons and doctors that set forth her profession and practise These grounds remayne yet unanswered by mine opposite being such as I assure my self neither could he neither can any soundly refute Now let us see how farr he yeildeth and how he opposeth First he prayeth all to take knowledge that his minde and desire in himselfe is to plead against the present estate of that church and not for it acknowledging it to be fallen into most synful and deep defection and apostasie and so to be a notorious harlot and idolatress which all the people of God ought to forsake and to witnes the trueth there against even vnto death How well this his acknowledgement agreeth with his plea in the residue of his book shall appeare in the discussing of the reasons after folowing But what sayth he to the description of Antichrists church which I before shewed from the scriptures He sayth I speak of the church and Synagogue of Antichrist of the Beast of the great Citie of the man of Syn of the great whore of Abaddon or Apollyon the son of perdition c. wheras I should treat of the Temple of God wherof Paul speaketh 2 Thes. 2. Hereupon he chargeth me to keep what I could from the point of the question in hand and therefore also to confound things that differ I answer that the the question was by this mine opposites former graunt about the church of Rome whether it were the church of God or no. Now when at first I shew from the scriptures what maner of Church that Romane church is in Gods account how could he charge me to keep from the point of the question 2ly the place of th'Apostle being alleaged by mine opposite for a proof that the church wherein Antichrist sitteth is the Church of God I come immediately after to scan that scripture and yet he challengeth me for keeping from the point wheras all men of judgement may see it was needful to know what God foretold of that church throughout the scriptures that so we might understand in what sense Antichrist is sayd to sit in the Temple of God 2 Thes. 2. For seing the Temple of God is a figurative phrase taken from the shadowes of the Law it is not wisedome in us to expound a parabolical speech contrary to the plaine scriptures grounds of Christian religion but we must understand it according to them Wherefore there being no other answer made to the description aforesayd it standeth in force to prove that the church of Rome is not the true Church of Christ. So for the accomplishment of the prophesies wheras I shewed from the Papists own writings of their church how fitly it agreeth with Antichrists synagogue foretold of by God mine opposite answereth I tell them of a Church such as Bellarmine and others describe one part wherof lives on earth an other under the earth and a third part in heaven c. Wheras our question is of the Temple of God wherof Paul speaketh 2. Thes. 2. 4. and of the court and holy citie wherof Iohn speaketh Rev. 11. 2. Thus neyther the Prophesies of God nor the complement of them shewed by the men themselves whom the prophesies concerne may be brought to clear the controversie but mine opposite will insist upon dark and figurative speeches that men may be the more easily deluded For how shall we prove against Papists that the Pope is Antichrist if we may not alleage the Popes owne doctrines and practises which are contrary to Christ Yea how shall we judge of any church but by their owne Confessions published and comparing them with the scripures Wherefore the profession of Papists concerning their church is a strong argument wherby they may be discovered to be none of Christs even the Cretian lyars testimonie against themselves is true as the Apostle noteth Tit. 1. 12. 13. An Answer to the arguments brought for the church of Rome MIne opposite pleadeth thus 1. First J take an argument from the baptisme had in the churches aforesayd the Apostate churches of Christians thus The Baptisme had in the church of Rome is the Lords baptisme the signe and seale of his covenant the ordinance of God had in that church from the Apostles times before Antichrist there arose Rom. 6. 2. 3. and so is true baptisme which is from heaven and not of men that one baptisme which perteyneth to the bodie of Christ Eph. 4. 4. 5. which the Lord hath given to his church and not man c. Therfore the church of Rome is the church of God and under his covenant c. Answ. Here let it first be observed whether mine opposite pleadeth against the present estate of that church as before he pretended For if they be under Gods covenant have it sealed unto them from heaven by that one true baptisme then are they in the state of grace and of salvation which is the very thing that all Papists at this day doe plead for Concerning his Argument I deny that the baptisme had in all Apostate churches of Christians and particularly in the church of Rome is the Lords true baptisme or the signe and seale of his covenant of grace unto them Here mine opposite referreth me to an other place of his book for proof of the trueth of their Baptisme wherto I will make answer anone in their place And now that my denyal may not be so bare as is his assertion here I will insist upon the two scriptures which he citeth and disprove their baptisme In Rom. 6. 2. 3. 4. the Apostle sayth How shall we that are dead to syn live any longer therin Know ye not that so many of us as are baptised into Christ Iesus were baptised into his death Therfore we are buried with him by baptisme into death that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glorie of the Father even so we also should walk â—n nâ—wnes of life Here first the
Apostle speaketh of such as are dead to syn that is mortified Christians which live not in syn neyther reigneth it in them but they are freed or justified from syn and are alive unto God But Antichristians such as are the professant members of the church of Rome are not dead unto or freed from syn for they are the subjects of the Man of syn the worshipers of the Beast for whom is prepared the wine of the wrath of God Revel 14. 9. 10. They are of that church which by my opposites confession a little before is fallen into most synfull and deep apostasie is a notorious â—arlot and idolatress which all the people of God ought to forsake Wherefore they are rather to be counted dead in synns as th'Apostle speaketh of the Gentiles Ephes. 2. 1. and that they are in deed dead and not partakers of the first resurrection is evident by Revel 20. 4. 5. 6. in that they are the worshipers of the Beast and murderers of the witnesses of Iesus Wherfore the doctrine of Baptisme in Rom. 6. is farr from proving the Antichristians or other heretical and apostate churches to have the true baptisme of Christ or seale of his covenant but his servants they are to whom they obey even of syn unto death Rom. 6. 16. The other scripture is Ephe. 4. 4. 5. There is one body and one spirit even as ye are called unto one hope of your calling one Lord one faith one baptisme By which words it appeareth that such as have the One baptisme have also one and the same faith Lord hope spirit and body which to affirme of the Antichristian church of Rome and of all other heretical and Apostate churches that professe Christ is very impious And most firme arguments there are from the Apostles words to the coÌ„trary of that which this man pleadeth for As The Romish and other heretical churches have not the one same faith with the true Churches of Christ witness their blasphemous doctrines published by the Council of Trent and in other books and the Apostles prophesie that they are departed from the faith 1 Tim. 4. 1. c. therfore they have not the one Baptisme They have not one and the same Lord Iesus Christ but have Antichrist the Man of syn for their Lord therefore they have not the one baptisme They have not that one hope nor that one Spirit neyther are they one bodie with the true Christian churches therfore they have not that one baptisme These things are partly prooved before in the description which I set downe of Antichrists church they are also acknowledged of all Christian churches which disclaim the unitie with the Antichristians in their faith spirit bodie And the scriptures most abundantly disclaime this feighned unitie as 2 Cor. 6. 12. what concord hath Christ with Belial meaning none at all And Belial is there put for Antichrist and his retinue as in 2 Sam. 23. 6. 22. 5. The Apostle sheweth that the Antichristians have from God strong delusions to beleeve lyes unto their damnation 2 Thes. 2. 11. 12. That they are departed from the faith doe give heed to â—educing spirits and doctrines of Divils speaking lyes in hypocrisie c. â— Tim. 4. 1. 2. That the false teachers among Christians privily bring in damnable heresies even denying the Lord that bought them and bring upon themselves swift destruction 2 Pet. 2. 1. That the Beast which is the kingdome of Antichrist and the false prophet his ministers and all that worship him or take his mark shal be tormented in fyre and brimstone for ever and ever Rev. 20. 10. c. 14. 9. 10. And shall we now say that these miserable creatures have one Spirit hope Lord faith and baptisme with the saincts and true Churches of Christ My soule come not thou into their secret that so affirme The second argument for such churches is If they be not under the covenant of God but divorced from the Lord c then is there no salvation for any in those churches Answ. I deny the consequence For then after Israel was divorced from the Lord as is testified in in Ier. 3. 8. there was no salvation for any among them which I know mine opposite himself would not say Objection Why out of the covenant of God there is no salvation Answ. I grant it But though the church be not under the covenant of God but without it or divorced from him yet some parlicular persons in that church may through Gods grace be in his covenant For as every true church is in the covenant of God yet some hypocrites and reprobates are in the same which perish for ever so every false church is out of the covenant yet some truly faithful and elect may be therein which by the covenant of grace may be saved Example in Rahab the Canaanitess the church whereof shee was had not the covenant of grace in Christ yet she having heard of Gods works towards Israel beleeved in God and was saved and before she joyned her self to the church of Israel shee shewed the fruits of true and living faith wherby shee was justified is put in the catalogue of the Saincts Jos. 2. 1. 9. 10. c. Heb. 11. 31. 39. Jam. 2. 25. 26. The like is to be thought of the other nations farr off from God who by some meanes hearing of his name and trueth might imbrace the faith unto salvation though the churches wherof they stood members were false and idolatrous 1 King 8. 41. 42. 43. So where mine oppositeÌ„ bringeth scriptures to prove that they which are not in the covenant of God and Christ cannot be saved he proveth that which is not denyed but this he should have proved if he could that if a church be false and not under the covenant none in that church can by any meanes come unto the faith and covenant of Christ for this I deny And his argument if it had been sound should have been this If Antichristian churches be not under the covenant of God but divorced from the Lord then is there no salvation for any that are under the covenant of that church and in no other covenant and so I would have granted his argument as confirmed by the Holy ghost that all such are in the state of damnation 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. Rev. 14. 9. 10. Here to help the church of Antichrist into the covenant of Christ he bringeth in the profession of the Iesuites of Rhemes which as he sayth â—old Christ by nature to be truely both God and man to be the one eternal Priest and Redeemer which by his sacrifice and death upon the cross hath reconciled in to God and payd his blood as a fâ—ll and sufficient ransome for all our synns c. againe to be the singular advocate and patron of mankinde that by himself alone and by his owne meritâ— procureth all grace and mercie
God Bellarm. de Iustific l. 1. c. 8. Such a faith appeareth to have been in the Divils as it is written And Divils also came out of many crying out and saying Thou art Christ the son of God Luke 4. 41. But that God giveth some in that church a sounder faith and saveth them of the riches of his grace I never denyed or doubted of Object 2. Of this minde concerning them J have been a long time see Answ. to Mr. Jak p. 13. 47. c. Answ. But then and there this distinction was rightly put of some particular men considered a part from their constitution that is from their church estate now that church and all other Apostate churches professing Christs name are generally pleaded for to be in the state of grace having the one true baptisme c. which is to justifie the open wicked and count Christs enemies blessed Object 3. Some of them dye Martyrs in defense of the Christian faith acknowledging Iesus to be the Christ the son of God against Turks c. Answ. If it be in defense of the Christian faith it is well but if acknowledging Iesus to be the Christ they dye also in defense of the Antichristian faith professed by that church and for the idolatrie of the same which is hatefull to the very Turks then I say with th'Apostle they may give their body to be burned and it profit them nothing Neyther doubt I but some of the Iewes have dyed and will dye in defense of the God of Israel as they now profess him from Moses and the Prophets rather then yeeld to the heathens But the extraordinary mercie of God to some in Antichrists church justifieth no more the estate of that Synagogue of Satan then his like extraordinary mercie to some of the heathens of whom we shall speak anone wil justifie the heathens synagogues to be Gods true churches As for Martyrs our owne English acts and monuments and other doe shew that many have given their lives for this that the church of Rome is not the true church of Christ. Now by mine opposites plea they died not herein for the trueth but for errour what Martyrs them were they Obj. 4. Many Jndians Pagans Jewes are by them converted and brought to the profession of Christian religion among whom I doubt not but the Lord hath and saveth his even by that knowledge and faith of Christ which by their preaching among them they are brought unto c. Answ. That many of all nations are converted or perverted unto Antichristianitie by the Papists there is no doubt for experience sheweth it and so it is prophesied that by Babylons sorceries all nations should be deceived Reve. 18. 23. So the heathens of Babylon Cuth Hamath c. were converted by a Samaritan Priest and taught to feare the Lord the God of Israel that they feared the Lord and served their own Gods also they feared not the Lord neyther did they after their statutes or after their ordinances 2 King 17. 28. 29. 30. 33. 34. If that misceline rable were Gods true church so are these popish proselytes if they were not as I never heard any affirme they were neyther are these And what have our learned men of England answered to this old popish argument J deny sayth Dr. Fulk that ever the popish church converted any to the true faith Answer to a counterf Catholik art 1. Yea what say the Papists themselves of this point Hierom Benzo in Histor. Indiarum sayth that all the religion the Indians have is to make the signe of the cross to heare a Latine mass and to perform such like ceremonies Ioseph a Costa a Iesuite in his book De procuranda Judaorum salute telleth us that the Spanyards have baptised many against their wills He sayth they are like the Samaritans that worshiped God and idols both togither they make sayth he a feighned shew of Christianitie they serve not God in deed neyther beleeve they unto righteousnes And are not these converts now a goodly plea for mine opposite to alledge for proof of a true Christian church But he procedeth Yea and who can say but that whersoever the name of Christ is preached and called upon the Lord saveth some c. seing that Christ is the way the trueth and the life and whosoever beleeveth in him shall not perish Ioh. 3. 16. 17. c. Answ. Where Christ is truely preached and beleeved no Christian wil say but the Lord saveth some but where Christ is falsly preached and beleeved in after Antichrists idolatrous manner none can truly say that they are a true Christian Church As for Gods saving some by the doctrine there preached it is a thing not for us to dispute of we are commanded to leave secret things unto God and to hold us unto things revealed Deut. 29. 2â— God who brought light out of darknes can cause the trueth to shine into the harts of his elect by the corrupt preaching of the Papists and so I doubt not but he doeth yet is this no justification of the popish church any more then the true preaching of the gospel which is unto the reprobates the savour of death unto death is a condemnation of the Christian Church and true doctrine of the same Object 5. But Out of the Church there is no salvation which J suppose themselves wil not deny And that which is more the Lords constitutions cease not to be his holy ordinances though the people that injoy them should have no benefit therof to salvation Answ. Here we have suppositions in sted of proof His assertion I deny though he supposed the contrary for out of the true visible Church wherof we dispute there may be salvation Many that are not of any true Church yea are persecutors of it and excommunicates out of it may repent and beleeve in Christ even at their last houre and at their death and so be saved though they neyther have time place or means to be joyned to any true visible church on earth If he speak not of a particular visible church but of the Vniversal church which is invisible and comprehendeth all Gods elect he swerveth from the question and deceiveth by aequivocation for we treat of the visible church of Rome whether it be Christs true church or no. As for the Vniversal church which is all over the earth and from the beginning of the world to the end therof and conteyneth Gods elect onely out of it in deed there is no salvation But what is this to the purpose For so a man might reason thus In the church there are no reprobates there is no damnation for Christ giveth all his sheep eternal life and they shal never perish Ioh. 10. 28. But the Popish synagogue is by mine oposites plea the church even the true church of Christ. Therfore in it there are no reprobates there is no damnation Here I doubt not mine opposite would distinguish between the
is by their owne grant the man of syn of whom the Apostle here speaketh c. Therfore the church of Rome is the Temple of God also that here is spoken of I answer This argument I might wholly grant and not hurt the cause I plead for For though the church of Rome be the Temple of God which Paul speaketh of yet followeth it not that it is Gods true Temple or true Church which is the point that should be concluded seing the scriptures often speak of things as once they were though so they continue not still as also they speak of things according to the outward pretense and shew that is made of them though in deed and trueth they be nothing less The first is manifest by these and other like instances Abigail is called the wife of Nabal 1 Sam. 30. 5. though Nabal was then dead and his wife maried to David Simon is still called the Leper Mat. 26. 6. though he was then clensed of his leprosie The king of Tyrus an heathen man that lived in Ezekiels dayes is sayd to have been in Eden the garden of God to have been upon the holy mountaine of God and to have walked in the middest of the stones of fyre Ezek. 28. 13. 14. meaning that he had been in Gods church on mount Sion among the people of God although not he himself but Huram his predecessor many yeres before in the dayes of David and Solomon was the man that became a proselyte in Israel and helped to build the Temple 2 Chron. 2. 3. 16. even as if a man should speak to the Bishop of Rome at this day and tell him what he was for a Bishop in th'Apostles dayes and how now he is degenerate and become the man of syn The mountaines of Horeb and Tabor where God once gave his Law and Christ was transfigured are after still called the mount of God and the Holy mount 1 King 19. â— 2 Pet. 1. 18. because they had been for the time sanctified by the presence of God And so the Temple in Ierusalem after the Iewes had crucified Christ refused the gospel were broken off because of unbeleef and the sacrificing and worshiping in that place was ended yet is it until the utter ruine of it by the Romans called the holy place Mat. 24. 15. Thus also the Citie become an harlot is called the faithfull Citie Esai 1. 21. the wicked that hath forsaken his righteousnes is named arighteous man Ezek. 18. 26. according to their former and not their present estate And when these titles are given them it is not to justifie them at all but to aggravate their syn So for the second that things are called according to the outward appearance and pretext set upon them though they be in deed false is evident by these and the like examples false Gods which are but idols are called gods usually so one Prophet calleth those the Philistians gods 1 Chron. 14. 12. which an other calleth their images 2 Sam. 5. 21. False prophets are called Prophets 1 King 22. 6. 22 and Balaam a Soothsayer among the heathens Jos. 13. 22. is called a Prophet 2 Pet. 2. 16. The evil spirit whom the witch of End or raised up for Saul is called in the scripture Samuel 1 Sam. 28. 11. 12 15. 16. 20. by reason wherof the Papists contend that it was Samuel in deed and not the Divil urging the letter as mine opposite doth urge against me this phrase of the Temple of God The idolatrous Temple which Ieroboam made in Israel in honour of the God which had brought them out of Egypt is called the house of their God Amâ—s 2. 8. yet that it was his true house or temple I never heard of any that would affirme though it was the true God whom they worshiped therin for Baal with his house was then destroyed out of Israel 2 King 1â— 27. 28. Now mine opposite hath given us a good rule in this his last book when answering the Anabaptists he sayth The word of God is not the bare letter or outward syllables but the intendement and meaning of the holy Ghost by whom it was given Which should carefully be observed by the due consideration of the scriptures with the circumstances therof and by the conference of other places of scripture and the proportion of fayth layd togither Which whiles the Anabaptists neglict they look on the scripture partially and press the letter extreamly without consideration of the true and right meaning therof These words of his are true the more it is to be lamented that he himself would so press the letter against me and not weigh the meaning of the same by it self and other scriptures and the proportion of fayth layd togither In alleaging this text he layeth downe the words thus There shal come an apostasie or falling away wheras the Apostle sayth except there come an apostasie or falling-away first which word first may intimate that the church should fall away from the love of the trueth before the man of syn should be revealed and this is apparant by the 10. verse where the people whom Antichrist seduceth are sayd to be them that perish because they received not the love of the trueth that they might be saved Or if the word first which mine opposite leaveth out be understood before Christs coming then is it meant of the apostasie or the falling away so called by an excellencie as exceeding all other And is not to be referred to Antichrist the head onely but to Antichristians the bodie also who after other synns should fall away with Antichrist and be damned with him as in the 11. verse it is sayd God shall send them strong delusion that they should beleeve a lye shat they all might be damned who beleeve not the trueth but had pleasure in unrighteousnes So that by the whole scope of this scripture it is evident the Apostle divideth not the people of the church of Rome from the Bishop and ministers of the same as if the people should be Gods true Temple Christs true Church under his covenant and so in the state of grace when the Bishops and ministers are the Divils Temple Antichrist the man of syn and so in the state of damnation but maketh both bishops and people deceivers and deceived all of them under wrath and condemnation otherweise then my opposite would perswade For he pleading thus The Apostle speaking of Antichrist describeth him thus There shal come an apostasie c would have men think that the Bishop and ministers of the church of Rome are the apostasie and the people not contrarie to all the scope of this scripture contrarie also to Paul in 1 Tim. 4 1. where he foretelleth of some that should apostate or depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of Divils meaning it of the people deceived by false teachers yea it is contrary also to mine opposites own graunt who
example more fitly if a Iew had been forced by Antiochus violently to kyss or bow the knee to Iupiters image when he resisted and testified against it none could justly call him an idolater or one of Iupiters people But if an other Iew had revolted to Antiochus religion and beleeved in his Iupiter and honoured him with hart profession and action he now might justly be called the servant of Iupiter or one of his people as the Moabites are called the people of Chemosh Numb 21. 29. So the church of Rome now fallen from true Christianity and beleeving worshiping obeying Antichrist the Popes holynes are and may justly be called his church or else Antichrist hath no temple church or people in the world Object Observe here and throughout his treatise how still he calleth that the Temple church and bodie of Antichrist which Paul expressly and purposely calleth the Temple of God And so therin note stil his shâ—fâ—s and his errours c. Answ. Loe still an urging of the bare letter as doe the Papists This is my body to prove their transubstantiation that there is no bread left but Christs very body really and properly I have I trust without shifting or errour proved the present church of Rome to be Antichrists temple church and bodie if the Pope be Antichrist And seing his mysterie of iniquitie is contrary to Christs mysterie of godlynes and Christ hath a mystical temple which is his church and bodie Eph. 2. 21. 5. 23. I would gladly know what temple church and body Antichrist hath if the church of Rome be not the same Againe he speaketh too largely that J stil so call it throughout my treatise for I have other weise written though it liked him not thus Gods true temple and tabernacle is in mount Sion in heaven Rev. 14. 1. 17. where God sitteth on a throne Rev. 16. 17. 7. 15. and dwelleth among his people where is the Ark of his covenant Rev. 11. 19. and from thence lightnings voices thondrings earthquake and hâ—yle come forth against thâ— Antichristians his enemies and vials of his wrath powred out upon the throne of the beast Rev. 16. 1. 2. 10. and on men that have his mark On the contrary the Beast which is the kingdome of Antichrist ascendeth from beneath out of the bottomless pit Rev. 17. 8. and blasphemeth this heavenly tabernacle Rev. 13. 6. and sitteth in Babylon Rev. 16. 19. upon the Dragons throne Rev. 13. 2. and fighteth against the Lamb and against the saincts Rev. 19. 19. treading under foot the holy citie Rev. 11. 2. and casting downe the place of Christs sanctuarie Dan. 8. 11. When th' Apostle therfore telleth us that Antichrist sitteth as God in the Temple of God it is to be understood of their invading and destroying of Gods church and people as the heathens of old dealâ— with Jerusalem and dwellers therin Psal. 79. Dan. 8 11. 13. 11. 36. Ier. 22. 12. 13. Law 2. 7. 9. Secondly of their own vaine ostentation whiles they wil have it called the Christian catholik church and the Pope the head of the same Ezek. 28. 2. 6. Esa. 14. 13. 14. 2 Thes. 2. 9 10 Rev. 13. 11. 14. 17. 4. 2 Cor. 11. 13. 14. 15. Thus I grant that the Temple which Antichrist invadeth destroyeth is Gods true Temple but that wherin the Beast sitteth as God which he trimmeth upholdeth and boasteth of as he doeth the church of Rome at this day is the synagogue of Satan But he procedeth Object As for the ancient Doctor whom here he citeth let us hear himself speak His words are these That which is the Temple of any idolor Divil the Apostle would not call the Temple of God Wherupon some will have in this place not the Prince himself but after a manner his whole bodie thâ—â— is the multitude of men perteyning unto him togither with himself under the Prince understood to be Antichrist And more rightly also they think it to be sayd in Latine 〈◊〉 in the Greek that he sitteth not in the Temple of God but for the Temple of God which is the church As we say he sitteth for a friend that is as a friend Augustine de Civic Dâ—â— l. 20. c. 19. Where note how farr differing Augustine is from this man that citeth him c. Answ. There is not so great difference as mine opposite would pretend First I cited not Augustine for his own judgment but for others whom he speaketh of touching the translation of the Text in the Temple of God or for the Temple Secondly he setteth down Augustines words maymed both at head and foot For Augustine beginneth thus But in what temple of God he shal sit as God is uncertaine whether in that ruine of the Temple which was built by King Solomon or in the church For that which is the temple of any idol or divil the Apostle would not call the temple of God c. Now the ruine of Solomons temple cannot at this day be called Gods temple otherweise then because it was the Temple of God of old hath now no more holynes in deed trueth theÌ„ any other place in the world And thus I have granted that the church of Rome may be called the church of God in respect that there was a church there in Pauls time wheras now it hath no more true holynes then the synagogue of Satan So we see how for advantage mine opposite baulked Augustines first words In the end he breaketh off in the midst of a period for Augustine sayth sitteth for a friend that is as a friend or if any other thing is wont to be understood by this kind of speech So he defineth not certainly of this place but leaves it doubtfull and presently after confesseth his ignorance For what is this sayth Augustine For the mysterie of iniquitie doth already work onely he who now holdeth let him hold till he be taken out of the way J confess my self to be utterly ignorant what he meaneth Thus we need not strive about Augustines words here and I grant that the Apostle would not have called it the Temple of God unless eyther it were so in deed and trueth or had been so in times past or did pretend to be so still And I think all wil likewise grant that the holy Ghost would not have called the witches spirit at endor Samuel unless eyther it had been Samuel in deed as the Papists doe contend or some thing in pretence and shew like Samuel Neyther would the prophet have sayd to the King of Tyrus Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God a proselyte in the church of Israel unless eyther himself or some of his predecessors had been there in times past Neyther would Amos have called the Israelites idol temple the house of their God unless eyther it were so in deed or in pretense which phrase when the Greek translateth according to the letter the house of
the true churches apostate in Rev. 2. 3. were still golden candlesticks though some of them rustie but I would have it likewise graunted me that there were other churches but copper candlesticks though they pretended to be golden namely such Antichristian haeretical synagogues as of whom it might be sayd They went out from us but they were not of us 1. Joh. 2. 18. 19. And if those petty Antichrists were no golden candlesticks much less can the great Antichrist with his synagogue be a golden candlestick for he farr exceedeth them in idolatrie heresie and impietie That Antichrist could sit in any true church then as he sitteth now in the church of Rome namely as God and so to be beleeved with his lyes worshiped and obeyed I utterly deny for that church that so doeth departeth from Christ the foundation and denyeth both the Father and the Son 1 Ioh. 2. 22. 23. and whether it be a particular church or a more general it skilleth not universalitie in worshiping the Beast causeth but universalitie of damnation Rev. 13. 16. 17. 14 9. 10. 11. Obj. Wheras he would be taught how that whorish company that worship the Beast and Dragon can be the true catholik church and spouse of Christ though that which J noted before be sufficient for the point in hand yet let him first remember how but a litle before he told us the catholik church of the now Romish religion as themselves describe it hath one part therof on earth an other under the earth a third part in heaven and now here he speaketh onely of such as are on earth and those also such as worship the Dragon and beast Rev. 13. 4. wheras the catholik church in deed conteyneth all churches people of God from the beginning of the world c. Answ. By this then it appeareth that the church of Rome lyeth apparantly when she calleth her self the catholik church and therfore is not the true church or Temple of God But I would be taught in deed how that whorish company here on earth which worship the Beast can be the true church eyther universall or particular Here first he asketh whither I think there was no other churches of Christians catholik or particular wherin Antichrist sate since th'apostasie of the man of syn but such as worshiped the Dragon and the beast And who then were the Tabernacle and those that dwelt in heaven whom the beast blasphemed and the saintes with whom he made warr 42. monethes Rev. 13. 5. 6. 7. and of what church they were c. Answ. He seemeth to use the word sit in two senses 1. for oppressing blaspheming killing the Saincts that resisted Antichrist and 2. for quiet governing and having in subjection the wicked that beleeve and obey him with such aequivocations his writings are too full Such churches or persons as resisted the beast and whom he blasphemed and killed they were of God and of them there is no question But the other sort given over of God to beleeve lyes and to worship the man of syn as God like as he sheweth him self that he is God they are not the true church of God catholik or particular and of such is the present church of Rome now iâ— question As for the Saincts that dwell in heaven whom Antichrist blasphemeth they are where he is noâ— in the true church out of which he is gone both he and his and therfore doth he persecute them The scripture by him citeâ— Rev. 13. 6. yieldeth a strong argument against his purpose thus The true Tabernacle church and heavenly people are blasphemed and warred against by Antichrist The church of Rome now is not blasphemed and warred against by Antichrist but blessed commended mainteyned Therfore the church of Rome now is not the true tabernacle church or heavenly people Obj. Jerusalem came to be a hâ—â—lâ—t old in adulteries and the Jewes to be a synfull nation laden with iniquitie c. sonns of the sorceress the seed of â—he adulterer and the whâ—re a rebellious people c transgressing after all the abominations of the heathens and polluting the house of the Lord c. yet they were stil notwithstanding the citie people and temple of the Lord. Esai 1. 3. 3. 12. with Ier. 50. 28. 51. 11 35. 36. 45. 50. 51. Answ. One findeth a dead and stinking carkess of a man and to prove it a living man he sayth Such an one was so and so diseased he had the burnâ—ng ague the palsie dropsie the gangrene the plague yet was he a living man therfore this is likewise Such is the mould of mine opposites argument For the Papists the worshipers of the Beast are sayd of God to be dead men Rev. 20. 4. â— not partakers of the first resurrection that is dead in syn not revived by Christ now to prove them alive examples of other persons and peoples of Israel are alleaged who because they were great synners but not dead in syn therfore these dead men under Antichrist must be living also He hath been answered that the Iewes whiles they continued Gods Church though greatly corrupted are not fit resemblances of Antichrists church which the holy Ghost calleth no where Iudea but Babylon Rev. 17. Wheras I sayd The very word Temple speaking of that wherin Antichrist sitteth as God leadeth us to understand Antichrists church to be but a counterfeit shewing this reason that the Temple in Israel was not the church or people properly but a sacramentall signe of Gods dwelling with his people 2 Chron. 6. 2. and of his inward dwelling in their harts by faith Eph. 3. 17. 2. 22. so Antichrists temple is an outward shew of his presence with that seduced people in whose harts he dwelleth by popish faith and by his spirit of error carying them to damnation c. Rev. 13. 4. 14. 16. 14. 1 Tim. 4. 1. 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. He answereth Then when th'Apostle sayth to the church of Corinth ye are the Temple of God 1 Cor. 3 16. his meaning should be according to this glose ye are a counterfeit church And when Christ sayd Destroy this Temple Joh. â— 19. speaking of his bodie the word Temple should lead us to understand Christs body to be but a counterfeyt Would any man of good understanding and affection have made such inferences upon my words Doth not the very word God when it is spoken of Baal and of images made with mens hands lead us to understand them to be but counterfeyt gods or would any adversary if I had so spoken of Baal and the word God which is applied unto him by the Prophet 1 King 18. 27. have wrested my reason against the true God But sundry such abuses I beare and forbeare to reply unto because my opposite cannot now heare his reproof and to other men it would be fruitless Hetherto of th'Apostles phrase the Temple of God Now touching the Man of
8. is clearly signified so that the Sun wherwith the church had been clothed was become black the Moon bloody the starrs the ministers fallen from heaven to earth and the heaven it self departed as a scroll tolled togither and God for the synns of Christians as of the Iewes of old had delivered this rebellious people into the hands of the spiritual Babylon â—â—e synagogue of Antichrist a Beast or kingdom blasphemous idolatrous filthy in life and hating the Saincts as Sodom Egypt and Rome when it was heathenish then God in wrath remembring mercie to a remnant the election of his grace began againe to reedify his church And to signify this Iohn had in vision a measuring reed given him to measure the Temple Altar and worshipers but not the Court or Citie as yet because he would renew his church by degrees Afterward he saw the Citie gates wall therof measured also when the church should fully be restored This reed which was of gold signifieth the word of God or scriptures wherby all doctrines ordinances churches and peoples are to be measured tried and discerned whether they be the building of God or no. For God by his word directed Moses to make the Tabernacle and all the appurtenances according to the patterne shewed him in the mount Exod. 25. 40. Heb. 8. 5. and so they were made Exod 39. 42. 43. Solomon likeweise had the patterne of the Temple and of the Courts chambers treasures c the weight of gold for the Candlesticks tables bowles cups c as the Lord had made David understand in writing by his hand upon him even all the works of that patterne 1 Chron. 28. 11. 19. So then the commandment to measure with the reed the Temple Altar and worshipers Rev. 11. 1. signified such a renewing of Christianitie and professors of it as should be according to Gods word when they are measured and tried therby of such as have the Apostle Iohns spirit But the Court Citie and Gentiles treading down the same were to be cast out and not measured to signify that the holy doctrines and ordinances of the gospel abused and troden down by the Antichristian gentiles can endure no measure or trial of Gods word but are to be rejected as profane in their synfull abuse of them Because as the Gentiles of old changed the trueth of God into a lye Rev. 1. 〈◊〉 and when they knew God they glorified him not as God but became vaine in their imaginations and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into images Rom. 1. 21. 23. therfore though they reteyned after their profane manner many of Gods divine ordinances taught them from Noe yet no Prophet or man of God ever measured their Temples altars sacrifices Preists or people but cast them out as wicked so the Gentiles the Antichristians now having likeweise changed the trueth of God into a lye and whiles they profess Christ in word doe in deed deny him albeit they tread down and sacrilegiously profane the holy things of God his doctrines and ordinances of faith worship church c yet are they to be cast out and left unmeasured being such as will indure no trial by the word of God How then doeth mine opposite seek in vaine to measure the church of Rome and to prove her Gods true church though corrupted and to be under his covenant of grace when God here expressly biddeth them to be left unmeasured How is it that he pleadeth for a reformation onely and will have no new building or plantation when Sodom and Babylon must be reformed with fyre that is utterly destroyed as in the types of old so in the thing typed at this day as it is written she shal be utterly burnt with syre for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her Rev. 18. 8. We finde in the type how after the Babylonians had burned the Temple when the Iewes returned out of captivitie they layd againe the foundation of the Temple of the Lord and then builded it Ezr. 3. 6. 10. 11. We find also in the Gospel that Antichrist should destroy the Temple even to the foundation which is Christ 1 Ioh. 2. 22. 1 Cor. 3. 11. And in Rev. 11. there is measuring as for a new building yet now we shall have by these pleaders Babylon reformed and no new Temple built or Ierusalem reedified If any like to apply this foresayd measuring of the Temple Revel 11. to the defection of the church rather then to the reedifying of it I wil not strive here about neyther wil it if so it be understood any thing help the present state of the church of Rome about which our controversie here is By this which hath been sayd I leave it to the judgment of men of understanding whether it be more fit to apply these Gentiles to the wicked Iewes which whiles the true Temple courts and citie stood did in hypocrisie abuse Gods holy ordinances Esa. 1. as mine opposite doth apply them or to the Gentiles of whom the Psalmist complaineth that they had come into Gods inheritance defiled the Temple layd Ierusalem on heapes that is ruinous as Mica 3. 12. killed Gods servants and left them unburied as here in Rev. 11. 8. 9. the dead bodies of Gods witnesses are not suffred to be put in graves that had devoured Iakob and layd wast his dwelling place for the former iniquities of Israel Seing that in Esaias dayes there was no measuring for the new building of the Temple as was after the captivitie of Babylon then and in this place nor casting out of the court and giving of the citie to be troden down of the Gentiles for many yeres as Iudah was given into the hand of the King of Babylon when God forsook his house and left his heritage to be destroyed and troden under foot seventie yeres But as of the destruction of the earthly Ierusalem by the heathen Romans Christ sayd Ierusalem shal be troden down of the Gentiles that is ruined not suffred to be built againe until the times of the Gentiles be fulfylled Luke 21. 24. so of the ruine wast of this spirituall Ierusalem by the Antichristian Romans he sayth it is given to the Gentiles and the holy Citie shall they tread down 42. monethes after which time Iohn seeth the heavenly Ierusalem measured that is builded againe Rev. 21. 15. 17. But whether we understand it to have reference to former wicked Iewes called hethens for their hethenish manners or to the Babylonian Gentiles yet hath mine opposite no reason or colour of reason to restreyn it to the governours onely as he doth to the Pope and his hierarchie For they that trode in the Lords courts Esai 1. were the people as well as the Preists and princes the people of Gomorrha as well as the princes of Sodom Esai 1. 10. and they that ruined Ierusalem were the Babylonian soldjers as wel as the
even in this his last book where he dealeth against the Anabaptists For in his Chr. plea p. 27. 28. he sayth Circumcision once received in the apostasie of Israel was not repeated againe at their returning to the Lord and leaving of their idolatrous wayes c and quoteth among other scriptures 2 Chron. 30 ch and Ezr. 6. 19. 20. 21. Of which the one speaketh of them that returned in Ezekiahs dayes whiles the Israelites were in the land the other of them that had been dispersed among the heathens and returned So I where I treat of Baptisme handle those estates indistinctly which is made a great matter against me by him that doeth the same thing himself against others But now I wil speak of them a part The Israelites that rent themselves from Iudah I take to be a false church and so continued whiles they dwelt in the land After they were dispersed and were no church The first I shew thus The twelve tribes by Gods institution were all one church both in Moses time when they had the Tabernacle among them and encamped all round about it in the order set of God Num. 2. and after in the land of Canaan whiles the Tabernacle stood when the Temple was built by Solomon both which were signes of Gods presence and dwelling with his church And to keep them in this unitie he commanded all the men of Israel to come joyntly togither from all parts of the land three times every yere to worship him and keep their solemne feasts in that one place which he should choose and at all other times to offer their sacrifices there and in no other place and thither onely to bring their first fruits their commanded and their voluntarie oblations Exod. 23. 14. 17. 19. Deut. 12. 5. 6. 7. Who so did otherweise blood was imputed unto that man and he should be cut off from among his people to keep the people from offring their sacrifices unto Divils Levit. 17. 3. 4. 7. Now when the ten tribes revolted and made Ieroboam king then Israel forgat his maker and builded Temples Hos. 8. 14. For Ieroboam took counsel and made two calves of gold and sayd unto them Jt is too much for you to goe up to Jerusalem Behold thy gods ô Jsrael which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt and he set the one in Bethel and the other he put in Dan and this thing became a syn And he made an house of hye places and made priests of the lowest of the people which were not of the sonns of Levi. And he offred on the Altar which he had made in Bethel 1 King 12. 28. 33. And having cast off the Lords Priests Levites Ieroboam ordeyned him priests for the hie places and for the Divils and for the calves which he had made but such of all the tribes of Israel as set their harts to seek the Lord God of Jsrael went to Jerusalem to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers 2 Chron. 11. 14. 15. 16. Thus of one daughter of Sion one â—hurch there became two women or daughters the one to weet Jerusalem the tribe of Iudah the Lord named Aholibah that is My Tabernacle in her the other Samaria the ten tribes he named Aholah that is her own tabernacle So Israel was without the true God and without a teaching Preist and without Law 2 Chron. 15. 3. and the Lord was not with Jsrael 2 Chron. 25. 7. but at their first falling away he threatned by his Prophets that because Ieroboam had made himself other gods and molten images and cast the Lord behind his back Ieroboams house should be cut off and taken away aâ— dung and the Lord would smite Israel and root them up out of that good land which he gave to their fathers and would sâ—arter them beyond the river 1 King 14. 9. 15. Yet for to shew his patience towards his people whom he had chosen for his above all peoples of the earth and for to save his elect among them and to make the rest the more inexcusable he forbare them many yeres and by all the Prophets and all the Seers sayd unto them Turne ye from your evil wayes and keep my commandements my statutes yet they would not heare but hardned their necks and beleeved not in the Lord their God but rejected his statutes and his Covenant that he made with their fathers and folowed vanitie and became vaine and went after the heathen that were round about them and left all the commandements of the Lord their God therfore the Lord was very angrie with Jsrael and removed them out of his sight 2 King 17. 13. 18. From these and other the like testimonies against this people I gather that from the time they departed from the Lord from his Temple altars and holy signes of his presence with his people in Christ from his Priests and the lawfull sacrifices at Ierusalem which were figures of Christ and from the communion of their brethren the Iewes which remayned the church of Christ and made a new Temple altar priesthood and church of humane and synfull institution that this their church Temple preisthood and worship were false For that is trueth which agreeth with the will and word of God all humane devices in religion are lyes and vanities If it be â—ayd the Lord himself rent the kingdom from Solomons son and gave it to Ieroboam 1 King 11. 29. 31. and therfore this second church was also of divine institution I answer though God divided the kingdom yet he divided not the church there might have been twelve kings over the twelve tribes as there were of old twelve princes Numb 1. 5. 16. and yet they should have been one Church The kingdom or Civil state is an ordinance immediately under God Rom. 13. the church or ecclesiastical state is an ordinance immediately under Christ the mediator and he is the head of the bodie the church Colos. 1. 18. The civil state is above the ecclesiastical as God is the head of Christ therfore the Church is to be subject to the Magistrate the higher power the minister of God though he be an heathen Rom. 13. 1. c. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. for the civil state is not taken away by difference of religion error heresie or any apostasie from Christ but the ecclesiastical state is by such things dissolved the Candlestick the church may be removed and of a Church of Christ become a Synagogue of Satan 1 Joh. 2. 18. 19. Rev. 2. 5. 9. In their civil state the Israelites were to be subject unto Nebuchadnezar an heathen when he conquered them Ier. 27. 6. 8. 12. but for their ecclesiastical estate they might never submitt to Nebuchadnezars church or priests nor offer to God upon any of his altars So to Ieroboam as king they might be subject without dissolving their communion in the mysteries of Christ set in the Temple altars priests
or false-Christian churches kept the sacraments Yea let any shew that any of the heathens I except not the very Canaanites turned the sacrifices into such abominable idolatry as the Church of Rome hath turned the sacraments And for other synns Antichristians are not behinde them How freely did Abraham Isaac and Jakob live and publickly worship God by altars and sacrifices in the midst of the Caananites Hittites c. Gen. 12. 7. 26. 25. 35. 6. â— whereas if they had so doen according to the true worship of the Gospel in the Church of Rome now these many hundred yeares they had been burned for heretickes as innumerable of Abrahams faith have been How religiously did the King of Gerar carry himselfe towards Abrahams wife Gen. 20. in comparison of the outragious adulteries and fornications by the chiefe of the Church of Rome as all histories testifie Yea God himself appeared unto that King and appointed Abraham to pray for him Gen. 20. 3. 7. How honourably did the Hittites intreat Abraham acknowledging him a Prince of God and offred him all kindnes Gen. 23. 5. 6. c. yet other nations were better then they Gen. 24. 3. 4. 27. 46. Look upon Balaam the soothsayer of Mesopotamia even in Moses time and see how he consulted with Jehovah his God by altars and sacrifices of Burnt-offrings such as were used in Israel Num. 22. 8. 9. 18. 23. 1. 2. 3. c. and it will plainly appeare the heathens had not more degenerated from the religion worship learned from Noe then the Church of Rome hath from that which Paul taught there Yea there was a better Church in the land of Vz in all likelihood then the Church of Israel was in Aegypt when they polluted themselves with the idols thereof Ezek. 20. 6. 7. 8. For in Vz land Iob was governour a most godly man as was upon the earth and a Priest unto the most high God Iob. 1. 1. 5. 8. 42. 8. 9. holding firme the faith of Christ his redeemer and of the resurrection to life Iob. 19. 25. 26. 27. and free from idolatry Iob. 31. 26. 27. 28. And what knowledge and religion was then among the Temanites Shuhites Naamathites and Buzites the friends of Iob that came to visit him doe shew Iob. 2. 11. c. and 32. 2. c. and notwithstanding their errour in their disputation they obtained pardon of God in Christ Iob. 42. 7. 9. And who can tell when the golden Candlestickes of Christian churches were removed from those other peoples Though soon even too soon there was a generall apostasie among the nations after Noe as among the nations after the Apostles times But among which of them was there a such a Man of Syn reigning at any time as hath now reigned in the Church of Rome these many hundred yeares Wherefore they measure not things by the golden reed which cast off those Churches of the nations as wholly prophane and fallen from grace and yet justifie this notorious harlot the church of Rome to be still in the covenant of grace whose impieties are not inferiour to any of those nations in Moses time but rather aboue them for her sins have reached up to heaven Rev. 18. 5. And wheras those nations had not the word of God written but as they learned it by voyce of men which might more easily be corrupted and forgotten the church of Rome having the written word hath despised it not suffered their children to read or heare it lest forsooth it should make them heretickes that for a man to have Gods booke it was as much as his life was worth so the miserable people for contempt of Gods holy Law have been justly given over into Aegyptian darknes and into most abominable idolatries and heresies which have drowned men in perdition Now that which mine opposite objecteth of the opinion of the Anabaptists c. as I reject it for a great errour so his supposition whereby he would feoff it upon me is injurious If I think that all people of the world in all ages and places of the earth are under the covenant of grace c. whereas I spake but of the nations in Moses time which were not so farr fallen from God as they were afterward and now much more Againe himselfe pleadeth for the church of Rome at this day to bee in the covenant of grace yet I hope he would not say that all in that church are redeemed otherwise then many reprobates are redeemed except he should think there are no reprobates And if the Man of Syn which himselfe expoundeth the Pope and his Hierarchie be redeemed which are the chief members of that Church we must needs acknowledge a very generall redemption So where he chargeth me with abuse of Ezek. 16. 8. thou beâ—amest mine and asketh me Is this now the case and estate of all the earth with the Lord I answer no it was not then much lesse is it now For I sayd that then God made Israel his peculiar people Exod. 19. 5. though generally he sayd all the earth was his But because the earth corrupted their wayes before him as they did before the â—loud Gen. 6. 11. 12. therefore God separated to himselfe a peculiar people to be his inheritance And so I think mine opposite himselfe would confesse though all that professe Christianitie be Gods Churches in his account yet the Christian reformed churches are Christs peculiar Churches though all Christendom bee his in a large sense Yet he ceaseth not to object that the heavens are the Lords Deut. 10. 14. and every beast of the forrest is his c. Psa. 50. 10. 11. 12. shal we therefore think sayth he that the beasts are the wife and Church of God â—s Ezekiel speaketh of the Jewes c. Answ. None but beasts would so think The comparison in Exod. 19. 5. is not between men and beasts but between men and men And such men as had all within lesse then a thousand years been Gods wife and church and in his covenant of grace But most of them on their parts fallen from it to idolatry as Israel also had Ezek. 20. 7. 8. and as the church of Rome and other churches within a thousand yeares after the Apostles have doen. The heathens then were not more fallen from God then the church of Rome is mine opposite pleadeth for Rome because they were a church 15 hundred yeeres before and Antichrist still sitteth in the Temple of God I answer him the heathens in Moses time were all the church nine or ten hundred yeares before and are still called Gods people Exod. 19. 5. He replieth with the instance of Wild-beasts c. If I should so have turnd my back upon an argument what out-cries would he have made after me When David exhorteth all the earth to sing unto the Lord Psal. 66. 1. 100. 1. speaketh he to the beasts When Moses sayth All the earth was of one language Gen
baptisme had in Rome we shall speak of it in due place Onely let it here be observed that this baptisme is there administred by such as are not of the body or Church by their own graunt but by ulcers gangrenes c. And Mr. Iunius himselfe answering Bellarmine so urgeth it saying of the Man of Syn the popish Hierarchie he is not properly of the Temple for the ulcer sayth he is not of the body though it be in the body So I straine not the similitude beyond the due proportion if Mr. Iunius his owne reasoning be good Object Of Himenaeus and Philetus it is sayd their word did eat as a gangrene 2. Tim. 2. 17. 18. would he then conclude that the baptisme ministred by them was not true baptisme c. Answ. First it is not sayd of the men but of their doctrine that their word fretted as a gangrene but Mr. Iunius maketh the very men ulcers and gangrenes in the body but not of it If the officers or members of a church teach heresie that doctrine is as a gangrene but the persons teaching them are truly officers or members of that church though synfull But in Rome the officers are ulcers not of the body in his account so his example is not fit Secondly if they were by the Apostle delivered to Satan as is probable by 1 Tim. 1. 20. then they and their folowers were no true Christian church but a synagogue of Satan to be reckned among the Antichrists 1 Joh. 2. 18. 19. and so could not administer true Christian baptisme to their disciples Obj. Where he againe denyeth any calling to be in the church of Rome and asketh How God doth call in that church let him ask it of such of his followers as have heretofore been of the Priests and members of that church c. Answ. He againe wrongeth me as too often saying that I deny any calling to be in that church it never entred into my hart I hold there is some calling in the churches of Turks and Iewes much more in false Christian churches I denyed that God is there calling as in his church which they plead for that is God hath not there his ordinary true ministers but Antichrists hierarchie doth call the people from God How be it by some whom God raiseth up of ministers or people his witnesses whom that church murdereth Rev. 11. 3. 7. and by reading the scriptures and other writings God calleth his people out of that Babylon Witness the late Archbishop Marcus Antonius de Dominis who testifieth that without persuasion counsel or advise of any man of what sort so ever he was by reading the scriptures and Fathers drawen to mislike and forsake that Roman church And thus among Turks Iewes heathens I doubt not but God calleth some from them by the light of his word and spirit Yea not onely in the church of Rome but by it and the ministerie of it God calleth his elect for as the Apostles doctrine in the true church was to the reprobates the savour of death unto death which yet is no condemnation of the true church or ministerie therof so some groundes of Christianitie doctrines in the false church by the false ministery erected to destroy mens soules with heresies and idolatrie God of his wisdom and goodnes causeth them to turne unto the conversion and salvation of his chosen which yet is no justification eyther of that church or ministerie Let this answer once suffice to all his repetitions And to Mr. Iunius on whom he so relyeth I could oppose Mr. Calvin man for man who sayth We see the horrible confusion that is in Poperie but yet there is not any doctrine to pluck men back to God nay rather the doctrine which is there doth draw them quite and clean from him And we see that the Divil hath gotten such sooting there that all is full of trumperie and illusions and the loving God is quite forsaken Sermon 31. on Deut 5. 7. Obj. What difference Mr. Junius observed between the ministerie simply considered and the hierarchie growen in that church upon it himself could best have shewed This here is evident that in one respect he acknowledgeth the hierarchie to be an order or estate of apostasie in the church an accident c. in an other respect he esteemeth the ministery of Gods holy things to be there though exceedingly corrupted Ans. By such differences and distinctions mine opposite would cary us from the trueth that I say not from common reason For he granteth the church it self the people to be exceedingly corrupted with most synfull and deep defection and apostasie yet in another respect to be the temple the people of God Now we have the like for the Bishops and Priests in one respect an order of apostasie in an other Gods ministerie Wherfore then have we been led about with distinctions of the ministerie or hierarchie from the church the one to be the Man of syn the son of perdition the other to be the Temple of God The plaine way should have been thus The Ministers and people of Rome are in one respect an apostatical church in an other a faithfull church in one respect the synagogue of Satan in an other the Temple of God But eyther my judgment faileth me or Mr. Iunius driveth at an other matter let men of understanding minde his writing Further I answer by like distinction we are to put difference between the Angels that synned or synfull men simply considered as Gods creatures and the poyson of syn which as an accident is growen upon them and this is true But shall that their being Gods creatures free them from damnation which that poyson that accident syn hath brought upon them No man of knowledge wil so say Even so the Man of syn the Pope hierarchie people of the church of Rome which are all in apostasie from the faith of Christ and service of God can not in that estate be judged heyres of salvation except God turne them againe to Christ for the scripture hath given sentence of their damnation 2 Thes. 2. 3. 10. 11. 12. Against their bare affirmations to prove Rome on Gods behalf altogether a church a company called of God with his calling by the spirit and the holy Scripture c. And that God calleth her with his calling by his spirit and word c. I objected the Apostles testimony God shal send them strong delusion that they should beleeve lies 2. Thess. 2. 11. and this is verified by the manifold heresies idolatries wherewith the whole body of that Church is poysoned And strong is the Lord God which wil condemne her Rev. 18. 8. and with the spirit of his mouth he wil consume that lawless one 2. Thess. 2. 8. Mine opposite replieth Might he not also thus conclude against Iudah in Apostasie that God did not cal that Church nor any in it or by any of them in that estate alleaging Ier. 5. 30. 31.
stil continued eyther in synceritie or apostasie or that the Lord put the ministers out of his covenant or that they have left off to baptise in Christs name Yet he now excludeth the ministers from being Christs he makes them Antichrist the Beast the Man of sin the son of perdition c. and is offended that I should speak of their mariage with Christ. And Mr. Iunius maketh them accidents ulcers and no members of the body as we have seen 2. Neither can he shew that the churches of the Gentiles ceased to be after their first planting Gen. 9. but continued still either in sincerity or apostasie even till the Apostles time and sacrificed still unto God and in his name Let him shew when old Babylon was divorced from God and it wil as soon appeare that this new Babylon is divorced also Object The Papists plead that Rome standeth not where it did on the seven hills and the Pope sits on the other side the river on the hil Uaticâ—ne c. Jn like sort is the answer for the church of Rome and the changes in religion and state c. Answ. Is this a fit comparison the change of place and the change of religion If it be then as a man going from England to India is the same man still so if hee goe from the religion in England to the religion of the Indians which is Paganisme he is of the same religion that he was still Or to keep neerer the poynt in hand the Bishop of Rome at this day notwithstanding al changes of his faith and state since the Apostles time is a true Christian Bishop still then he is not Antichrist the Man of syn spoken of in 2. Thess. 2. as mine opposite sayth he is Object Many of those people that made the invasions became Christians themselves and so the Church was increased Not to speak how the very catalogue of the Bishops of the Church of Rome giveth evidence against him Or wil he say that though there were Bishops of that Church yet there was not a church whereof they were Bishops Answ. So many of the Babylonians Cuthims c. that invaded Israel were taught the manner of the God of Israel and feared the Lord and had Priests of Israel which sacrificed for them 2 King 17. â—4 25. 27. 32. 33. But what sayth the Scripture Every one that is joyned to Babylon shal fall by the sword their children also shal be dashed to peeces c. Esa. 13. 15. 16. And God will cut off from Babylon name and remnant son and nephew Esa. 14. 22. The catalogue of Bishops if it will doe him any pleasure serveth for the Pope the Man of syn the great Antichrist to prove him a true Christian Bishop successor of Peter whom they falsely put the first in their catalogue Now he will not have the Hierarchy to be the church noâ— of the Church but accidents ulcers gangrenes and I know not how vile but the people the church that turned from paganisme to the Pope or fell with him from Christianity to popery they are the Temple of God the Church of Christ in the covenant of grace How great partialitie is this in men to magnifie the people for their faith and religion and to despise the Bishops and ministers that are the chiefe teachers and maintainers of the same faith religion making them accidents hang-bies scabs ulcers gangrenes and all that bad is So his questions of the time when the Church ceased are answered with the like when the ministery ceased Let the yeare be named when the true Christian ministery was abolished out of the church of Rome and Antichrist the Man of syn come in the place I will answer in the same year the people that were fallen with him to the same idolatries heresies and to worship him as God in the Temple of God ceased to bee the true Christian Church and became a synagogue of Antichrist Object His esteeming of the state of the church of Rome in apostasie to be but as the state of the Isâ—â—â—elites Edomites and as Adonisedek with his Amorites and Jebusites in Jerusalem is disproved and contradicted by himselfe when he maketh them like Jsrael and Iudah in their apostasie Animadv p. 84. Answ. It is not contradicted by my selfe neither can it be disproved by any For my selfe my words in the place which hee quoteth are these She the Church of Rome fell into apostasie soon after Pauls time for then the mystery of iniquity did work many Antichrists were gone out whiles the Apostles lived For which their apostasie like Jsraels when they would not repent as Christ threatned some that were new fallen into such sins the candlestick the Church was removed the Church of Rome as Paul forewarned for unbelief was cut off among others and for a punishment of their apostasie God delivered the East Churches into the hands of Mahomet and the West Churches into the hands of that false horned Beast Antichrist even as Israel and Judah of old for their like syns were delivered into the hands of the Assyrians and Babylonians By which I shew that as the Christians that fell to Mahometisme ceased to be Gods true Churches so they likewise that fell to Antichristianisme He could not deny the first nor disprove the latter for Paul sayth of the Antichristians God shal send them strong delusion that they should beleeve a lie that they all might be damned c. â— Thess. 2. 11. 12. For the Ismaelites and Edomites they were Abrahams naturall seed so can no man prove the Church of Rome at this day or any one in it to be the naturall seed of the Christians of Rome in Pauls time The Ismaelites and Edomites were fallen from Abrahams faith the Church of Rome at this day is much more fallen from the Apostles faith taught to the church of Rome by him Whosoever will bring them both to the triall it will soon appeare but this triall mine opposite every where shunneth Melchisedek was king of Ierusalem in Abrahams time Gen. 14. and then none doubteth but there was a true church Adonisedek was king of Ierusalem in Iosuahs time Ios. 10. both kings both of the same citie by name the one King of justice the other Lord of justice as pretending to be the successor of Melchisedek and not more departed from his faith then the Pope is from Pauls Obj. Mr. Junius knew that there dwel Jewes in Rome who are not of the Church and that the natural posterity of the Saints may become Jewes Turkes Pagans and sayth the church may at length cease to be a church when God ceaseth to call it back and takes away the evidence of their holy mariage that is the holy Scripture out of the hand of the adulteresse Answ. So Mr. Iunius knew that there dwelt Gentiles in Israel who were not of the Church Deut. 14. 2â— But it is well that neither dwelling in the place nor being of
the naturall posterity is any sure proofe that a people continueth a church We must then have some other proof namely continuance in the faith of Christ which the church of Rome doth not but is revolted to Antichrist and his infidelity Where he maketh Gods ceasing to cal it back a signe of the churches ceasing first it is barely sayd without proofe Secondly it is obscure what calling back he meaneth For take the thousand yeare after Christ and see what calling back had Rome Was it by her owne ministery or hierarchy They were the Man of syn the ulcers of the church they called her further from God but not back from syn Extraordinary prophets at that time I think there wil scarce be found any but grant that there were doth not God so call back the Iewes and Turks at this day Doe not some turn to Christianity and perswade others to turne Doe not some suffer death among the Turkes for the truth Doe not some write bookes now to the Iewes in their own tongue to call them back unto God yet are not the Iewes therefore the church God called back the Gentiles from their apostasie by the Apostles preaching Mark 16. 15. and before he sent Ionah to the Ninivites yea Iudah and Israel he scattered among the heathens who called them back from idolatry as Daniel did Nebuchadnezar and Belshazzar And the Gentiles seated neere Canaan had alwayes as much meanes to be called to the Lords mountaine by the Israelites trading with them as the church of Rome hath at this day Besides the prophets that God raised up among the very Gentiles to call them from Idols unto God as Sibylla whose prophesies were famous among the heathen Greeks and Romans But for taking the Scriptures out of the adulteresses hand if ever church had it Rome hath had it For the Scriptures were in a manner buried kept in the closets of the hierarchy the people might not have them in their mother tongue nor read them on pain of death Were the Scriptures ever so taken out of the Iewes hand Nay they all have them read and study them more then many Christians And now that Bibles are printed and so common how is it possible the Scriptures should bee taken out of any heretikes hands otherwise then they have been from Rome When God gave Israel the bill of divorce did he take the Scriptures out of her hand If not as in deed hee did not then is not this a true rule that an adulterous church is never divorced nor ceaseth to be Christs church till the Scriptures be taken out of her hands Mr. Iunius elsewhere hath written better when speaking of some apostate churches of Christians as Marcionists Ualentinians and others of whom Hierom sayth They were not the Church of Christ but the Synagogue of Antichrist he readily granteth it because they denied the fundamental Articles of the doctrine of faith The like he granteth to Irenaeus assertion because sayth he he spake of heretikes and schismatikes which reteyned not the truth in the foundation thereof Now let us compare this with the former Did God cease to call back those heretikes and schismatikes Were there not many learned Doctors that disputed and wrote against them by whose meanes God still called them to repentance Or did God take the Scriptures out of those heretikes hands when they from them and by them pleaded for their heresies Thus the rule which Mr. Iunius hath given us for the church of Rome agreeth not with himself And if those heretical churches were not Christian but Antichristian synagogues then is the church of Rome much more which worshipeth the greatest Antichrist the man of syn and denyeth the foundation of Christian religion beleeving as the Pope beleeveth who either denyeth the Father and the Son or els he is not the Antichrist 1. Ioh. 2. 22. And that the Apostle meaneth not onely of open and direct denyall but of indirect and denying in deed when by word he professeth Christ Mr. Iunius himselfe D. Whitakers Mr. Brightman and others that have answered Bellarmines 14. chap. de Rom. Pontif. l. 3. doe soundly prove Now as the Pope denyeth Christ so doth the Whore of Babylon the Romish church holding the same heresies and idolatries that if the Pope bee Antichrist then is the church of Rome an Antichristian synagogue and not the true church of Christ. By this also mine opposites insultation against me as if I wrote errors and contradictions unreconcileable touching apostate churches is taken away For as I never denyed but some apostate churches continued true churches till the candlestick was removed for their impenitencie so neither could he nor can any truely deny but some apostate churches are mere synagogues of Satan as those Antichrists mentioned 1. Ioh. 2. 19. those heretical churches whoÌ„ Mr. Iunius himself denieth to be true Christian churches because they reteyned not the foundation And such by necessarie consequence is the church of Rome at this day But it it is a needlesse and wearisome labour to follow mine opposite in his tautologies and repetitions of the same things againe and againe to inlarge his work besides his manifold reproches I sayd of this Romane church It is not the woman fled into the wilderness Rev. 12. 14. but another woman or citie reigning over the King 's of the earth Rev. 17. 1. 18. c. What then sayth he difference is to be put between the inward parts of the Temple and the outward the parts measured and the parts unmeasured between Gods Temple Altar and worshipers therein Rev. 11. 1. and the court of the Temple given to the Gentiles and the holy citie trode downe by them 42. moneths v. 2. If it be not one of these shall it therefore be none of them Jf it be not the inward part of the Temple wil it fâ—llow it is not the outward c. Answ. He should have sayd though she be not the company of worshipers of God whom he measureth yet may she be the company of Gentiles that tread downe Gods courts and city whom he casteth out as unmeasured But he leaveth the comparison of persons and runneth to things Gods ordinances which she abuseth Of that Scripture Rev. 11. we have spoken before Of these two women in Rev. 12. and 17. the Scriptures are so plaine that none of good understanding can mistake the one for the other or as this man doth make the one a part of the other as if both put together should make one Temple one woman one Church When the one persecuted flieth from the Serpent or dragon the other in the Dragons throne persecuteth reigneth triumpheth abusing and treading under foot Gods ordinances which belong to the persecuted woman as the Babylonians abused the vessels of Gods sanctuary burned and trode down the holy citie the place of the womans assembly His question When was the time that the woman fled into the wilderness is
he wrong me as if I made the church of Rome damned and dead for ever that is as if there could be no mercie shewed to the papists for repentance and turning to the Lord. They are onely the reprobate multitude which are damned and dead for ever Many of that church yea even of the hierarchie whom my opposite holdeth to bee the Man of syn the son of perdition being dead in their sins God hath in mercie revived and raised with Christ as he did in the churches of the Gentiles Eph. 2 1â— Coloss. 2. 〈◊〉 But such as are not raised from the death of Antichrist and quickned by Christ they perish for ever And wee speake of that Church now remaining in her synfull death unto which so continuing no salvation is promised but assured destruction threatned 2. Thes. 2. Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. Thus we see how notwithstanding all his turning and winding and backing his errour with learned mens names these Gentiles the church of Antichrist and worshipers of the Man of syn are by the sentence of God dead in sins as were the Gentiles before Christ gave them life That such of them as the Lord shall in mercie raise up out of the grave of poperie shall escape the second death the rest doe remain under Gods wrath dead in syn and shall die in torment In the end to that which I shewed of that whores death otherweise and of her burning with fire Rev. 18. 7. 8 and of the joy which the heavenly multitude shal have at her destruction Rev. 18. 20. 1â— 1. 2. 3. mine opposite seemeth to assent referring it to the Citie resembled as he sayth by Babylon and Babylons destruction that was of old Rev. 18. with Ier. 50. 51. Thus the truth hath wrung out at last an acknowledgement from him as the feare and light of his conscience made him acknowledge at the first For he began with the Church of Rome thus acknowledging it to be fallen into most sinful and deep defection and apostasie and so to be a notorious harlot and idolatres This notorious harlot the holy Ghost calleth Babylon the great the mother of horlots and abominations of the earth Rev. 17. 5. which is meant of the Citie Rome v. 18. but of an ecclesiastical state such as is in that citie at this day And that Babylon or church it is whole destruction is threatned in Rev. 18. and for which there shall bee ioy and singing Alleluiah for that God hath judged the great whâ—re which did corrupt the earth with her fornication and shed the bloud of his servants Rev. 1â— 1. 2. 3. c. For the destruction of this great whore which in deed is no other then the Church of Rome mine opposite sayth with me they shal be so farr from mourning at her funeral as they shal rejoyce with the heavenly multitude and sing Hallelujah when the Lord hath given Sodoms judgement on her and they see her smoke rise up for evermore Rev. 19. 1. 2. 3. Of his own mouth now let him be judged with what truth equity conscience he hath pleaded for the church of Rome to bee the Temple of God the church of God in his covenant of grace and to have his baptisme the seale of his covenant even in that adulterous and most sinfull estate wherin she standeth at this day under her Pastor Antichrist whom she honoureth and worshipeth beleeving his lies serving his idols and trusting to merit heaven by the wicked works which that Man of syn hath taught her But that God for a reward of his popish errour in advancing the Ministers above the church and the pastor above his fellow ministers gave him over to this second errour who would have thought that a man of understanding would so bitterly have inveighted against me for denying her to be Christs true Church and that he would for defense of such a notorius harlot have forsaken and written against his own former good testimony which hee witnessed against her Gods counsels are unsearchable and let all that feare him heare what the Spirit sayth unto us Hearken unto me now therefore ôye children and attend to the words of my mouth Let not thine heart decline to her wayes goe not astray in her paths For shee hath east downe many wounded yea many strong men have been slain by her Her house is the way to hell going down to the chambers of death Prov. 7. 24 27. Of other Writers TO his citations of Polanus Keckerman c. I answered That diverse men were mistaken in judging of that rotten Church of Rome which would help these our opposites nothing who have seen and acknowledged better and now goe back And I instanced sundry others contrary minded as Mr. Carwright Mr. Perkins D. Fulk D. Willet Mr. Bale all our country men who deny the church of Rome to be the true Church of Christ. Mine opposite replieth that I say in particular of Polanus that he was mistaken and in this for that he sayd that Antichrist must sit in the Temple of God not Jewish or at Jerusalem but Christian c. wherein as his manner is he drepraveth both my words and meaning For I never dreamt that Antichrist should sit in the Iewish Temple at Ierusalem but in the Christian Church falsly so called as Mr. Iunius nameth it in Annot. on Rev. 11. But Polanus pleadeth otherwise for the church of Rome as mine opposite hath set down his words Chr. plea. p. 212. And in that I iudge he was mistaken and not I onely but many moe with me men of greater learning and before me though mine opposite leaveth it with this reproch That all in my judgement are mistaken hereabout but my selfe and my followers And presently after to that which I alleaged from Mr. Cartwright Perkins c. he wisheth they had written more advisedly and more soundly And why even for his former often refuted reasons of the Temple of God and Baptisme in that church wherein he doth but beg the question and answereth not them For I named to him Mr. Perkins reasons that the Papists doctrine doth rase the very foundation of Religion and his 4. arguments in a treatise for that purpose Now to these he answereth not one word But the Temple of God the Temple of God and Antichrist must sit in the Temple of God and Martyres out of the Church of Rome and where else had they their baptisme these are his common bucklers To which I have answered before And now that the Reader may further see how not I onely but many before me even such as he nameth in his book for him as D. Whitakers Mr. Broughton Mr. Brightman and others are direct against him I will set down their testimonies What Mr. Bale Mr. Cartwright D. Fulk M. Perkins and D. Willet have written I have shewed heretofore and them hee regardeth not Whereas Bellarmine would conclude from the protestants graunt that the church of Rome
is Christs true Church because it is the Temple of God 2. Thess. 2. D. Whitakers giveth sundry answers the two first are these 1. Jt may be called the church wherein Antichrist sitteth because it was the true church of Christ before not because now it is c. So Esaias sayth the faithful citie was become an harlot Esa. 1. 21. where he calleth Jerusalem the faithful citie because it had been faithful before so we say the Temple of God is the seat of Antichrist that is that which of old was the Temple of God 2. The Church of Rome taketh to it selfe the name title of the true Church and in the opinion of our adversartes it is the true Church 〈◊〉 was a monstrous thing of old 〈◊〉 deny this neither was it denyed but of a very few who straight way when they were knowen were killed notwithstanding it was not the true Church but the whore of Babylon c. These answeres when I gave mine opposite could by no meanes endure at my hand The same author sayth a litle before Now let us see whether the Bishop of Rome hath departed from Christ and from the faith so that the church of Rome now reteyneth not the form of the Apostles doctrine Surely that is evident by all the heads of doctrine which are in controversie between us and them That Church succeedeth the Apostles in deed but so as a den of theeves doe the house of God and as an harlot doth the faithful citie c. And after But the Pope sayth Billarmine honoreth one true God the Father Son and holy Ghost J answer hee honoureth him not but blasphemeth him He doth I confess as Atheists are wont to do which wil not openly deny God but in hart and workes they deny him so the Pope figneth and preclaimeth that he honoureth the trinity but in deed he carâ—h not for him For he that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father of the holy Ghost but the Pope honoureth not the Son for he corrupteth his doctrine c. Againe touching that particular before handled whether by Babylon in Rev. 17. be meant the Citie or the Church of Rome Mr. Whitakers sayth Whereas the adversary affirmeth that it is not the Church of Rome whloâ—â— is called Babylon but the citie such as it was under the Emperours it is false For it is certain that Rome is by Iohn in the Revelation called Babylon because of that Church which should be at Rome For mention is made there of the false Prophet as also of the Whore which by her allurements should bewitch the whole world These things cannot be understood but of the Church and are necessarily to be referred unto Antichrist Mr. Brightman in his book of the Revelation expoundeth the Gentiles in Rev. 11. 2. to be the christiaÌ„s that are so in name only On Rev. 13. 8. he saith The holy Ghost doth cry openly that all they do wholly â—eopard and cast away their salvation that are subject to the Pope of Rome if so bee that they depart out of this life without repentance And again This Beast is worshipped of all Reprobates with whom while thou conspirest in thy worship who shal separate thee froÌ„ the state of reprobates He doth not therfore break off unity who departeth from the synagogue of Rome but he purchaseth unavoydable destruction to himselfe who cleaveth unto it without repentance These and the like things sayth Mr. Brightman one whose name mine opposite useth to grace his erroneous cause by Mr. Brovghtons testimony we have heard before Mr. Dudly Fenner in his Theologie writeth thus Antichrist is the head of the universal apostasie that should come 1. Ioh. 2. 18. Ioh. 4. 2. 2. Thess. 2. 4. 5. 6. Wherupon his church is by a Synechdoche called Antichrist 1. Ioh. 4. 3. 2. 18. as the true Church is called Christ 1. Cor. 12. 12. The Antichristian church compared to a Beast is the apostatical church but counterfeyting the vizar of the true which representeth the lively image of the Roman monarchie formerly doen away and of the goverment power amplitude seat therof amongst all peoples 2 Thes. 2. 4. 5. 6. 8. Revel 11. 7. 8. 13. 3. 11. 12. 18. Antichrist or the False prophet is the head of the Antichristian church the mediatour between it and the Dragon Rev. 16. 13. 13. 4. 11. 12. This Antichrist is an Opposer for to defend the foresayd departing away froÌ„ the truth of Christ 2 Thes. 2. 4. compared as touching the phrase with Dan. 8. 11. and an Exalter of himself first that he may lift up himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped that is against all powers and majesties both earthly heavenly 2. Thes. 2. 9. Dan. 8. 11. 36. Secondly that placing his seat in the church in name called Gods he may shew himself as God that is arrogate to himself the divine power and absolute dominion of Christ Esai 31. 1. 2. 2 Thes. 2. 4. Dan. 8. 25. Napier the Noble of Scotland expounding the Revelation sayth But as for the outward and visible face of the pretended church it must be rejected from God and no care measure nor account had by him therof because it must be given over to Antichristian and idolatrous people who shal subdue his holy church and spiritual Jerusalem and tread it under foot 1260. yeres Gods true church and spouse was chased away and remayned invisible and soliturie among certaine private persons predestinate elect of God But the rest of the people that lay dead in Antichristian errors arose not therfrom to imbrace the word of life ill c. But the rest J mean the whole outward visible church lay wholly as dead and corrupt with papistocal errours Of the Baptisme in the Church of Rome ALthough the former things against the Church of Rome be ynough to disprove her baptisme which is ordained of God onely for his Church and those in his covenant out of which Rome is gone yet because mine opposite urgeth some speciall reasons against mee for the same I will also briefly answer them About this poynt he hath nine reasons in his Christian plea pag. 27 ... 30. 1. The first which is against the repeating of Baptisme againe I grant him neither doe I hold it needfull or lawfull to repeate again the baptisme received in false churches 2. The second being for the same purpose I likewise grant As also that there is one baptisme as there was one circumcision which plea of his I would have noted because of his contrary reasoning afterward Likewise his example from Israel whose circumcision was not repeated I hold very fit But let the Reader observe how the Scriptures by him brought to prove it are 2. Chron. 30. chap. Ezr. 6. 19. 20. 21. of which the first was before the captivity the other after 3. The third that the covenant of grace is everlasting
with the Holy Ghost nor any other infants there baptised Answ. We and all are by nature the children of vvrath Eph. 2. 3. and being born in Antichrists church we had not the visible covenant of promise vvhich is given onely to Christs Church Albeit God hath his elect in false Churches as among the Gentiles of old and in Israel after they vvere divorced from the Lord. Jer. 3. vvhom he can save vvithout baptisme as he did vvithout circumcision The same is answered to his fifth obiection of the same persons come to yeares And is further cleared in the* answer to his second argument for the Church of Rome vvhere he alleaged the like things And vvhere he sayth Either we have no outward baptisme at all confirming the covenant of God or else we had it before we came under the Lords covenant and in a church divorced from the Lord. I answer Wee had the outward vvashing vvith vvater as the Israelites had the outward cutting of the flesh vvhen they were divorced from the Lord Ier. 3. 8. vvhich could not then confirme Gods covenant to us or them in such synfull estate But as after vvhen they repented and turned to the Lord they had their outward cutting sanctified unto them for a signe of his covenant and were admitted to eat of his Passover Ezr. 6. 21. vvhich no uncircumcised might eat of Exod. 12. 48. so our vvashing hath been by like grace sanctified unto us for a signe of his covenant and vve may lawfully eat of the Lords Supper His 6. reason is of like na ure touching the members of the Antichristian church that they have not the Lords baptisme being not come to the Lord in true faith and repentance c. This also is before spoken of in answering his reasons for that church The Scripture sheweth them to bee departed from the faith of Christ 2. Thes. 2. 1. Tim. 4. to bedead in syn Rev. 20. to bee under the vvrath of God Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. Our opposite himself sayth of that church She is a notorious harlot and idolatress and of the Hierarchie the ministers of that church vvhich have the same baptisme vvith the people and doe administer baptisme to that people he sayth they are the Man of Syn the son of perdition 2. Thess. 2. the Beast Rev. 13. concerning vvhom he could not endure that vve should aske his proofe that ever they were maried unto Christ. And are such a people and Hierarchy remaining in that estate come to the Lord in true faith and repentance If they have brought themselves by their idolatries heresies and innumerable synns into a woeful estate vvhat are we that we should justifie those vvhom God condemneth Let false prophets preach peace unto them wee must notwithstanding declare the judgements of the Lord vvhose wrath is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who deteyn the truth in unrighteousness Rom. 1. 18. 7. Finally sayth he Wheras they say the outward washing need not to be repeated and yet say also they have renounced the Romish Baptisme as an impure idol in their abuse they use shifts and contradict themselves For if the outward baptisme be an Idol why doe they reteyn it Jf not why have they renounced it Answ. I have formerly shewed the shift and contradiction to be in himself who pleaded against the Anabaptists that there is but one baptisme and now against us would have two 2. I have also shewed that Gods ordinance turned into an idol or lye the lye the idol is to be renounced the truth of the ordinance reteyned so doe we That sayth he which they speak of their abuse is a shift Difference is to be put between a thing abused and th' abuse therof The scriptures are the word of God and not an impure idol to be renounced though they be abused by the Papists and themselves c. Answ. when he hath nought ells to answer he casteth reproches and calleth my reason a shift Would he have me so impious as to call Baptisme the Lords supper or other divine ordinances idols unless for the syn and abuse of men which turne them to idols as the trueth of God was turned into a lye by the Gentiles Rom. 1. 25. And doe not I put that very difference which himself here putteth how then is it a shift in me more then in him The scripture in it self is alwayes pure yet popish heresies falsly gathered from the scriptures are most impure these we reject but hold fast the scripture Water in popish baptisme is Gods good creature Antichrist hath turned it and the action with it into an abominable idol as if it gave grace and washed away syn by the work doon of a sacrilegious priest This abomination we reject the creature of God is of his grace sanctified unto us and we reteyn it Now follow his other reasons to prove it no idol but true baptisme 1. Because an Idol c. is an invention of man in the worship of God wheras Baptisme in those churches is of the holy things of God a true signe of his covenant c. Answ. The first is granted him the latter is denyed and he but beggeth the question For neyther doth the church continew in Rome which th'Apostles planted neyther doth the true baptisme there continew any more then the true Supper of our Lord turned by them into an abominable Mass or any more then the true ministery which is changed by his own grant into a man of syn a Beast and the great Antichrist Or any more then the true Censure of excommunication which they profane against such as forsake their idolatrous church 2. Els those churches should not have a mixture of Gods ordinances with their own inventions c but should be utterly deprived of all and every one of Gods ordinances But they have such a mixed estate c. Answ. He concludeth nothing but should conclude therfore it is no idol to them in their abuse but Christs true baptisme This I deny And first I answer that all the heathens had before Christs coming a mixture of Gods ordinances with their own inventions yet were they not therfore in the covenant of grace neyther had they the true signes and seals therof 2. as mens inventions are idols so Gods ordinances may by men be turned into idols as are the sacraments in Rome For is not the wheaten God in their supper an Idol what mouth wil deny it Mine opposite pressed with it passeth it over alwayes as if he could not see it That thing alone would have convinced this and many other his reasons of like sort if he durst have medled with it 3. Jf their baptisme were an idol then it should be syn in them to reteyn that baptisme still c. Ans. How often shall we have repetitions of the same thing He hath been answered the idol ought to be put away the ordinance of God ought to be reteyned If the Iewes had
the righteousness of saith and forgivenes of their sinns in that sinful estate Thus I shewed Gods words not mine own for oracles He asketh if we wil be wiser and more righteous then God himself who accounted them stil to be his people under his covenant and himselfe to be their God and upon this ground called them to repentance c. Answ. All this notwithstanding whiles they continued unrepent and unbeleeving and hardned their necks against the Lord their God c. their circumcisim by Pauls doctrine was made uncircumcision Rom. 2. 25. their sacrifices were an abomination to the Lord Prov. 15. 8. And hee might have seen in the Scriptures that though Israel were divorced from the Lord Ier. 3. 8. and not his people or wife nor he her husband Hos. 1. 9. 2. 2. yet they are in respect of their former state their continuall profession and the future mercie towards them called Gods people still even till Christs time Esai 11. 11. 16. Amos. 9. 14. That he should not urge a phrase as his manner is against the plain doctrines of the Scripture Obj. What wil they say to the circumcision of Judah in their apostasie c. was it also among them none of Gods ordinance but an idol c. Answ. It was Gods ordinance though abused by the unworthy receivers as before is shewed But he from a false church and Babylon flâ—eth to Sion the true Church corrupted which is his perpetuall fallacie If Iudah or any Church in the world had doen with the sacraments as Rome hath doen they had changed them into idols contrary to the 2. commandement But Iudah never did so with circumcision and the Passover he sheweth no word of God to prove it Obj. Have the gates of hell more prevailed against the Christian Church since Christs coming then they did or could against the Church of the Iewes before his coming in the flesh Mat. 16. 18. Answ. This old popish reason hath been often answered by many Writers against the Antichristians and is of no more force for Rome turned to Antichrist then for Ephesus Corinth and other churches turned to Mahomet For what priviledge besides a popish dreame had Rome above Ephesus Should it because it crucified Christ and is therefore cursed above all cities have prerogative above Ephesus wherin was a church in Pauls time which was the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 1. 3. 3. 15. yet is that church long since cut off but Romes church must continue for her good service to Divils and idols Rev. 9. 20. and for worshiping the Beast Rev. 13. He might have seen in Rev. 12. that the woman the Church perisheth not though she be fled into the wildernesse from the presence of the Serpent and synagogue of Antichrist His other repetitions again and again are before answered Obj. The ordinances of God may in any churches become unprofitable to men by their own sinns circumcision may be made uncircumcision to such as break the Law c. Rom. 2. 25. 26. so baptisme now But shall we therefore say that they are not in such churches to such persons the Lords ordinances nor his true signes and sacraments but idols and lying signes c. Was the Lords table in the Church of Corinth a table of Divils or the Lords Supper an idoll or lying signe c. to such as eat it unworthily Was it not the Lords ordinance and true sacrament though sinfully abused by them c. Ans. The Lords ordinances abide alwayes the same and holy in themselves howsoever abused by Christians by Antichristians by Iewes Turks or Pagans to their perdition Neither is there a like degree of abuse in all neither doth every abuse make a thing an idoll but when the honour due to God alone is given to a creature then it is made an idoll and so I have proved is doen in the church of Rome to which proofs he answereth not I instanced the Lords Supper in Rome whereof they have made an abominable idoll worshiping a peece of bread as their maker Mine opposite will never mention or meddle with this but shunneth it as convinced in conscience And from Antichrists church runneth to the Christian Church in Corinth and asketh if the Lords table there were a table of Divils I answer No not then in Corinth but now in Rome they have made it by their idolatrous Masse a table of Divils and as Moses sayd of Israel they sacrificed to Divils not to God Deut. 32. 17. so say I of these Antichristians their sacrifice of the altar is a sacrifice to Divils not to God This he should have disproved if he could have doen it and not to leave the persons and things whereof wee dispute and run to others So the Lords baptisme they have turned into an idol ascribing the gift of grace which onely is Gods to water words and works of men that as the Gentiles turned the truth of God into a lye Rom. 1. these Gentiles also have turned the truth of God and of his sacraments into lyes And as the Lords incense and sacrifices were an abomination to him from the hands of wicked sinners Esai 1. 13. Prov. 15. 8. so the Lords sacraments are an abomination to him from the hands of Antichristians And as hee doth so ought all his people to esteeme of them and not to regard lying words of such as cry nothing but the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord the sacraments and ordinances of the Lord to deceive Gods people and to harden the synners in their wicked works Wheras I distinctly shewed the idolatry committed in Antichrists baptising of his subjects partly by perverting the holy signes as the Israelites did the brasen serpent â— King 1â— 4. partly by inventing signes of his owne as crosses exorcismes c. Mine opposite first †censureth the things I wrote to be notable shifts errours contradictions abuse of scriptures vain distinctions and odious assertions Such grace hath flowed from his tongue and pen. 1. Observe sayth he a needless distinction of idols nothing helping for the question in hand Answ. The distinction is true and needfull to discern the truth of the question against his clamorous reproches as if I called Gods ordinance in it self considered an idoll 2. Jf they mean sayth he that baptisme there had is an idol of both sorts they doe the more increase their errour Answ. I doe so meane yet is there no increase of errour I heare his bold words but no proof 3. They speak of crosses exorcismes c. whereas we speak of the baptisme it selfe Ans. So doe I but of popish baptisme mixed with Christs ordinances and Antichrists together All parts of a thing put together make the whole and it is deceitfull dealing to dazel mens eyes with the whores golden cup and to passe by the abominable ingredients the fornications that are in it when both are joyned together Rev. 17. 4. 4. They speak
sayth the use of gold and silver for idols is forbidden very wel and is not the use of water bread and wine for idols forbidden also The use of gold to make the images of Cherubims was commanded Exod. 25. 18. but if the Gentiles had made themselves golden Cherubims they had been idols and syn to them for God commanded them not So water bread and wine are commanded the Christian church in her sacraments but to the Antichristian church God commandeth not these til they repent turne to Christ then and not before may they use them for holy signes Psalm 50. 16. 17. Prov. 21. 27. 9. 13. 17. 18. In this his tenth errour or exception is also answered which is about the very same thing but that he delyteth in multiplication 11 Touching the relation which is the mayn thing in a sacrament that it should seale up unto them the forgivenes of synns and as they blasphemously say quite take away synns and conferr grace so it is a vaine idol and nothing But the Sacraments in their relation are not onely seals but signes also Gen. 17. 11. Rom. 4. 11. c. Now by their assertion the baptisme aforesayd sheweth nothing at all to the mind and so is a vaine idol and nothing and that which it sheweth to the eye is but as the gold and silver of the heathens idols which if it were true then in deed there should be nothing of Gods ordinance nothing of a true sacrament c. And can they then blame the Anabaptists c. Answ. That there is no true relation in the popish baptisme is sufficiently proved the persons being Antichristians out of the covenant and without promise in that estate That they have the true material things of washing with water in the name of the Father c I have alwayes granted though these materials are abused by them to idolatrie as the Iewes abused their sheep and bullocks to abominable sacrifices That of the gentiles silver and gold is true also touching the matter which is Gods good creature further comparison I made not though he corrupted my words Object Whether think they that the baptisme received in the truest Churches doe seal up to hypocrites the forgivenes of their synns If they think not whether they wil say that the baptisme of those churches hath not the relation which is the mayn thing in a Sacrament Jt is generally held that Simon Magus who was baptised by Philip was an hypocrite and that his baptisme did not seal up unto him the forgivenes of his synns wil they therfore say that the baptisme ministred by the Euangelists had not the relation c Besides that thus the relation of the sacramentes should depend wholly upon man and not upon the Lord or his ordinance at all Answ. To passe over his forme of writing how he asketh questions when he should prove or convince I answer his question is from the matter in hand and so is deceitfull We speak of the outward visible church of Christ and ordinances belonging therto also of the visible Antichristian church and ordinances there abused He leaveth this and runneth to hypocrites which men can not discerne and whom therfore we must leave unto God among other secrets Deut. 29. 29. To reason from the one of thâ—se to the other would bring all confusion for hypocrites are lawfully admitted into the Church as was Iudas Simon Magus and many other if upon this ground open Antichristians idolaters unbeleevers may be admitted also then the church and the world shal be one confused Babel To his question I answer baptisme in true Churches administred as th' Apostles and Euangelists did â—ealeth up to all the forgivenes of their synns unto the judgment of man and they should greatly syn and profane Gods ordinance to baptise any other Simon Magus when he was baptised it is testified that he beleeved Act. 8. 13. so by the ordinance of Christ he was to be baptised Mat. 28. 19. neyther knew they him to be an hypocrite when he was baptised til afterward Thus are we bound by the rule of love to beleeve that all rightly baptised in the Christian church have the seale of forgivenes of synns and are buryed with Christ by baptisme and that by one spirit we are all baptised into one body Rom. 6. 3. 4. 1 Cor. 12. 13. And so mine opposite beleeving the church of Rome to be Christs true church and to have his true baptisme was bound also to beleeve them all to be of one body and one spirit with himself til they manifest to him the contrary which seing they have not doen by all their idolatries heresies impieties it is not to be thought that ever people which wil call themselves Christians could doe it As for us we know the covenant of Christ is not with Antichrist or his whoreish church though therin God hath many elect but we know that his covenant is with the true Christian church and all the members of it although therin be many hypocrites and reprobates both which are manifested in time by their fruits We walk by the rules reveiled to us of God secret things are not for us to judge of until they be manifested Where he concludeth that thus the relation of the sacraments should depend wholly upon man and not upon the Lord at all it is a calumniation without all colour of proof The relation is by mutual consent the Lord offring his son Christ for salvation to all repentant beleeving synners we by grace having obteyned faith doe therby apprehend Christ for our saviour as in the word so in the sacraments His next demaund about our selves and our baptisme had in Rome is a thing againe and agayn answered without running into Anabaptistrie whither he would so sayn drive us 12. These men erre not a litle when they say that popish baptisme hath not the relation of a sacrament to them but is a vaine idol and nothing because they say of it that it quite taketh away synns Shall mens erroneous sayings and opinions make a nullity of Gods ordinances signes and seales Can not God be true though they be lyars c. Answ. Here is an other repetition of that which he forealleged in his 6. reason or errour which I there refuted Mens erroneous sayings opinions and doings doe disanull to themselves all Gods promises signes and seals which are onely conditionall if men repent beleeve and obey which grace God giveth to all that are Christs And if men beleeve not nor obey and so be damned their damnation impeacheth not Gods truth at all but confirmeth it for he hath sayd of such that they shal be damned Mar. 16. 16. Joh. 3. 36. Obj. Besides the relation in a sacrament there is also to be regarded the commandment of God who hath appointed it to be observed in the church As Christ who was without syn c yet in obedience to the Law was circumcised and baptised c. Therfore it
should be syn in the church of Rome if they should reject baptisme and not keep it Which doth plainly evince that it is not a vaine idol and nothing for then it were not syn but their dutie to cast it away and not to keep it at all but that it is the Lords ordinance c. Answ. The first is true for without the word and commandment of God it could be no seale of his covenant or have any relation at all therto The second is a deceytful reason concluding from the holy commandment of God to the unholy keeping of it in Rome It should be syn in them to reject baptisme the Lords supper professedly it is syn in them to keep them as they doe profanely It were better for a man never to be baptised or eat the Lords supper all his life then to communicate with the church of Rome in eyther of these as they profane them for we may not doe evil that good may come therof Rom. 3. 8. So his plaine eviction that it is not a vaine idol in their abuse of it is but a plaine fallacie let him apply it to the other Sacrament and it wil appear Antichrist hath transformed the Lords supper into an abominable massing sacrifice and therin worshipeth a wafer cake for his maker and redemer this he durst not deny to be a notorious idol But his reason if it be good wil prove it no idol thus It should be syn in the church of Rome if they should reject the Lords supper and not keep it Which doth plainly evince that the Lords supper in Rome though changed by them into a wicked Mass is not an idol for then it were not syn but their duty to reject it The refutation herof is this Rome and all nations syn that doe not beleeve aright in Christ and keep all his ordinances The more that they openly renounce Christ or any of his ordinances the more they shal adde unto their syn Yet in that they keep them not aright but have changed the truth of God into a lye and his holy ordinances into idols they are also great synners for which if God give them not repentance they are under wrath and damnation 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. Of this point I have spoken before in answer to his 6. reason for the church of Rome His 13. and last errour is but a repetition of former matters about the brazen serpent Gods ordinances and creatures considered in themselves c to which I have before answered shewing that it helpeth the Papists no more to clear them of idolatry herein then the heathens of old who made idols of creatures and ordinances which in their own nature and first institution were good and holy And hitherto of his errours wrongfully imputed unto us To these by his figure of repetition and multiplication he hath added from the former grounds Contradictions Abuse of scriptures Uaine distinctions and Anabaptistical assertions all which being but the same things turned and repeated and by me before cleared I count it needless labour to make the same answers againe to his empty calumniations Of Circumcision in Israel THe reason why we repeat not the outward work of baptising with water againe such as have been baptised in false churches is the example of the Israelites who after their falling from God and from the Church and after the Lord had given them the bill of divorce when they repented and turned to the Lord were admitted to the Passover without any new cutting or circumcising in the flesh 2 Chron. 30. Ezr. 6. And because I denyed them in such estate to have true circumcision which is the signe and seale of the righteousnes of faith Rom. 4. 11. mine opposite as his manner is chargeth me with very erronious and ungodly assertions and maketh a longsome discourse of the state of Israel and of words and phrases used concerning them And unto ten lines of mine in Animadv pag. 70. he giveth an answer of above 30. pages in his Christian plea pag. 65. to pag. 96. to blinde his reader with many words I wil briefly shew the insufficiencie of his answers And first that Israel after they departed from the Lord his Temple altars sacrificers and church and made new Temples altars sacrificers signes and a new church of their own divising that Israel I say from that time was not a true church I have before shewed my reasons in handling the state of the church of Rome Mine opposites first colourable reason is from such scriptures as stil name them the Lords people and the Lord to be their God and to remember the covenant of their fathers Abraham c 2 King 9. 6. c. and 13. 22. 23. Answ. I have heretofore answered that this Argument They are called the Lords people therfore they are his true church is not to be granted For 1. Things are named in scripture sometimes as they have been before though they be not so still as Abigail is called the wife of Nabal though he were then dead and she maried to David 1 Sam. 30. 5. Solomon was begotten of Uriahs wife wheras she was then Davids Mat. 1. 6. Jesus was in the house of Simon the Leper Mat. 26. 6. so named because he had been a Leper c. 2. They were so called in respect of their profession that they would be so estemed and named though in deed they were without the true God 2 Chron. 15. 3. as O thou that art named the house of Jakob c. Mic. 2. 7. 8. Thirdly in respect of their calling unto him and his covenant afterward though for the present they were none of his as Jn that day J wil marie thee Jsrael unto me for ever c. Hos. 2. 18. 19. 20. 23. Thus the Gentiles were called Christs sheep because they should after be brought into his fold Ioh. 10. 16. and God had much people in Corinth an heathenish citie Act. 18. 10. 1 Cor. 12. 2. And the Jewes to this day are Gods people and beloved not for their present state which is cursed but for the promise that they shal hereafter be graffed againe into Christ Rom. 11. 11. 20. 23. 25. 26. 9. 4. with Esa. 59. 20. 21. Ezek. 34. 23. 30. Hos. 3. 5. Fourthly in comparison with the Philistines and other heathens they were called the people of the Lord because they never renounced their God in name and professedly but pretended the contrary Fiftly that God did not presently cast them off in respect of calling them to repentance and of their dwelling in the land or as the scripture sayth in 2 King 14. 27. of putting out the name of Israel from under heaven For his covenant was to punish them by degrees Levit. 26. 16. 18. 21. 24. 28. 33. and at last if they repented not to scatter them among the heathens til their uncircumcised harts should be humbled and they rued their former syn and then
he would 〈…〉 his first covenant and so receive them againe to grace in Christ. Vnto which I now add this sixt that God called himself the God of Jsrael and them his people because of many among them that were in deed his both such as yeilded not to Ieroboams idolatrie but went to Ierusalem to sacrifice 2 Chron. 11. 16. and seven thousand in Jsrael which bowed not the knee to Baal 1 King 19. 18. and such also as erring at first in simplicitie were by the Prophets brought to repentance though the general state of the land never repented but went on in their syn til the Lord cast them out of his sight as is testified in 2 King 17. His next chief ground is the comparison of Iudah who likeweise for sook the Lord and sometime became more corrupt then Israel so that if Israel were not in trueth Gods people and church then Iudah was not Answ. I have shewed how Israel might be called Gods people still and why I judge them not to be Gods true Church For Iudah they changed not the constitution wherin they were set of God made no new face of a Church no new Temples preists c as did Israel Therfore they did wickedly in the true Church as often times greater impietie is committed in the Church then among the heathens yet the state of the church of the heathens may not be compared though the punishmēt of such as transgress in the Church and repent not shal be worse then the heathens Mat. 11. 20. 24. Secondly the defection of Iudah was not generall like Israels though sometime the scriptures speak generally when many are corrupted but even then when for their synns they were caried into Babylon there was a godly company compared to a basket of good figgs Ier. 24. 2. 5. 6. 7. which had cried out for all the abominations were marked and reserved of God Ezek. 9. 4. c Thirdly the state of Iudah was often times reformed by many good Kings as Iosiah Ezekiah Iehosaphat and others the people brought to repentance and the covenant renewed but never so in Israel by any king that there reigned from their first apostasie to the captivitie 2 King 17. Fourthly for the wicked troupes in Iudah that refused admonition persecuted their brethren killed the Prophets mainteyned idolatrie for which the godly left their synfull communion I hold them not Gods true Church or in his covenant of grace Because the covenant was alwayes conditional if men repent and beleeve as I have before proved and mine opposite himself hath granted This may suffice to his often repeated reasons which are deduced and varied from the groundes aforesayd Touching 2 Chron. 15. 3. IShewed from the Prophet Azariahs speech to Asa and all Iudah that Israel was without the true God without teaching Priest and without Law 2 Chron. 15. 1. 2. 3. and therfore could not in that estate be judged to be in the covenant of grace Mine opposite laboureth to bring Iudah it self also within this estate but that hath no colour with it The distinction of names Iudah and Israel the state of Iudah under Solomon Roboam Abijah and Asa though corruptions were come in plainly sheweth it otherweise and I leave it to the readers judgment 2. he granteth it may well be understood of the 10. tribes and sheweth good reasons for it how then doth he take away the weight of the reason that Israel being without the true God without a teaching Priest Gods true ministerie and without Law could not in that estate be Gods true church in his covenant of grace or have the true seales therof unto them He fayrly denyeth the conclusion Jt wil not prove sayth he that circumcision or the other ordinances of God had in Jsrael or in Judah were false and deceytfull signes c. Jf it would then it might be urged against Iudah also and where then was circumcision c. I answer If there were no circumcision but among them that were without the true God without his ministerie and without his Law then was there no true circumcision in the world For if we consider the first institution of circumcision Gen. 17. and the Apostles doctrine of it in Rom. 2. 25. 28. 29. 4. 11. and the doctrine of Christian baptisme now answerable to circumcision of old it is impossible that that people should have the true seale of righteousnes and salvation from God in Christ that are without God and without Christ. No colourable excuses or distinctions wil here availe◠except men can prove an absolute promise of salvation whether men repent beleeve or no whether they be in God and Christ or no Which is contrary to all the scriptures Wherfore this one testimonie is ynough to overthrow all his long plea for Israel as if they in this synfull stare unrepentant continued stil actually in the covenant of grace and state of salvation And what colour maketh he against this plaine scripture He first speaketh of forsaking God what it meaneth and how it is spoken of the Iewes in the Prophets namely of forsaking his Law Temple Worship and service and not simply of so dealing with the Lord himself as the bare words and letter it self might seem to imply For even in the defection of Israel when Ieroboam set up the calves yet stil they intended to worship the Lord that brought them out of the land of Egypt c. 1 King 12. 28. Answ. First observe how here he would not have the bare words and letter of the scripture to be insisted upon yet is it his continuall practise and onely colourable reasons For the Temple of God 2. Thes. 2. and the people of God are his mayn grounds for the church of Rome and of apostate Israel 2. He omitteth the words which I cited that Israel was without the true God c and speaketh of an other phrase of their forsaking the Lord to ease his burden which he found too heavy 3. It is granted him that by forsaking the Lord is meant the forsaking of his Law Temple Worship and service and not that they did professedly renounce God but stil pretended and intended to serve the true God what would he inferr hereupon This maketh the more against his plea for them The scripture sayth they were without the true God without teaching Priest without Law this was true eyther in their own account or in Gods not in their own account for they thought they stil reteyned the true God even as the heathens of old hereticks Antichristians and Iewes at this day perswade themselves that they serve the true God therfore they were such in Gods account Now Gods judgment is alwayes according to trueth when mans judgment erreth and deceiveth himself Thus then though Israel thought themselves the true church and to have the true God as mine opposite also thinketh and pleadeth for them yet in the Lords account which is trueth they were without the true God
God testified that Christ was not their mediator to accept their prayers Seing it is certaine that no man cometh to the Father but by him Joh. 14. 6. Thus men may be overseen sometimes to cite authors on their side which eyther say nothing or look quite an other way Touching Hos. 13. 1. THe last placé which here I cited was Hos. 13. 1. where Ephraim offended or synned in Baal and dyed whence I judged their estate to be dead in syn To this mine opposite sayth the same terme and phrase is used by Christ of the church of Sardis Thou hast a name that thou livest and art dead Rev. 3. 1. Should we now inferr hereupon that therfore baptisme and the other ordinances of God in the church of Sardis were but in shew reteyned therin and could not be unto them the signes seals of the forgivenes of synns and of life eternal and therfore were in their use of them false and deceyefull aâ— were the ordinances of God reteyned among the Gentiles Would any man of heart and understanding endure such blasphemie Sayth not the Scripture that the church of Sardis was one of the seven golden candlesticks c. Answ. A man of understanding wil discerne things that differ and be caried by judgment not by affection The syn of Sardis was secret hypocrisie the syn of Ephraim was open idolatrie the death of Sardis was discerned of Christ who searcheth the heart reines the death of Ephraim was discerned of men who can judge but by the works Sardis had a name among the churches to be alive when for the most part they were dead before God though some things remayned which are but ready to dye vers 2. and a few among them were worthy ones and undefiled vers 4. Ephraim was openly knowen to be fallen from God to Baal by the Prophets and by the church of Iudah Hypocrites in all true churches are dead before God though alive before men So Simon Magus was alive in the judgment of the Apostolik church and baptised therin Act. 8. when before God he was dead His baptisme was true baptisme so farr as men could judge though to himself before God he received judgment therby not being a worthy partaker But had he been an open worshiper of Baal and baptised or circumcised among the Baalists it could not by men have been judged a true signe and seale of the forgivenes of his synns he remayning unrepentant They that should so affirme should themselves not be farr from blasphemie before men of understanding that know upon what conditions the covenant of grace is made between God and men They in Sardis that were dead that is without true faith for by saith the just doth live could not by the sacraments or by any ordinance in the church be partakers of Christ of his death or resurrection before God so their baptisme was to them no baptisme And had they been so discerned of men their baptisme should so have been judged by men As the Canaanites in Sichem their circumcision was uncircumcision before men and not the signe and seale of the righteousnes of faith when they had no faith for the unbeleever remayneth in the state of damnation Mar. 16. 16. and the baptisme that saveth is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience towards God as th'Apostle suyth 1 Pet. 3. 21. That which he further annexeth that I say their reasons from Israel might well serve for the times wherein John lived when the true churches were many of them apostate wherupon he noteth my contradicting of my selfe c. was a mistaking that I distinguished not the state of Iudah which was a true church corrupted from Israel a false church and so the true churches apostate in th'Apostles time Revel 2. 3. from the false churches also in those times 1. Ioh. 2. 19. Into which oversight I fell by their citing undistinctly Jer. 3. and Esai 50. the one speaking of Israel the other of Iudah as is to be seen in their Advertisement pag. 107. wherto I gave answer in Animadvers p. 103. Secondly he pleadeth if Hose 13. 1. be understood of death in syn yet let it be well considered whâ—ther it will therfore follow that Circumcision now in Israel was not the Lords signe and seale of his forgivenes of syn but a false and deceitfull signe in their use therof and no better then the ordinances of the heathen For Christ sayd Let the dead bury their dead c. Luke 9. 60. was circumcision then among the Iewes a false and deceitfull signe in their life therof c. Answ. He runneth into his former errour the Iewish church in Christs time was a true church and Christ communicated in their Temple and sacrifices Israel when they served Baal was a false church and no man might awfully communicate with their Temple and sacrifices Christ speaketh not of the Church generally but of such as he knew to be hypocrites and dead though seeming alive we speak of Ephraim generally open offenders serving Baal and dead in the judgement of the Saincts The same I answer to his next instance of the church of Ephesus which then when Paul wrote was not the house of Baal but of the living God the pillar and ground of the truth 1 Tim. 3. 15. Moreover he citeth not my words sincerely I spake of the seale of forgivenes of synns 〈◊〉 them neyther did I say no better then the ordinances of the heathen which the reader may understand the ordinances devised by the heathens themselves but I sayd in their use of them false and deceitfull 〈◊〉 were also the ordinances of God reteyned in other nations as altars sacrifices c. touching whose estate I have spoken of before Thirdly he excepteth that Baals worship was first instituted by Achab about 60. yeres after Ieroboam and great difference was between Ieroboams calves and Baals idolatrie c. Answ. It is not material to our question who spake of Israels circumcision in their apostasie in generall before and after they were out of the land as before I have manifested 2. I acknowledge Achabs syn was greater then Ieroboams and false churches may grow worse and worse yet Ieroboams calves were also Divils as the holy Ghost calleth them 2. Chron. 11. 15. Fourthly he instanceth the 7000 in Israel that bowed not the knee to Baal 1. King 19. 18. asking what we shall say to these were they not circumcised or had they not the circumcision that was then in Jsrael or was it not to them the Lords seale of forgivenes of synns c. Answ. The instance is good to clear the controversie by the help of other scriptures In Rom. 11. Paul speaking of the rejection of the Iewes sayth Hath God cast away his people Farr be it For I also am an Israelite c. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew Then speaking of
Catholik or universall church in the first proposition and the particular church of Rome in the second and so deny the argument why would he then himself obtrude upon us such a deceitfull reason The latter part of his speech I grant but it helpeth him nothing For the synagogue of Antichrist is none of Gods constitutions though every true Christian church is neyther hath he annexed promise of grace to his ordinances abused by the man of syn and his subjects in that malignant church but hath threatned the destruction of the deceivers and deceived 2 Thes. 2. 8. 10. 11. 12. 3. The third reason for the church of Rome consisteth of a division of the world into Christians Iewes Turks and Pagans and of a question if it be asked which of these is the Church of God at this day should we not answer the Christians and among the Christians comprise the churches aforesayd for the reasons before specified Answ. The first part of his answer I yeild unto that Christians now are Gods church The second I deny namely that Antichristians such as the Papists be other heretical and apostate churches are to be comprised in the number save in name onely for in deed and trueth they are not His reasons before specified I have particularly refuted so might here end But further to explaine the trueth I answer that after this general division we must make an other subdivision or els we may be deceived The subdivision is of Christians againe into true and false or into Christians and Antichristians which professe Christ in name deny him in deed And this I learne of the holy Ghost who in the Apostles times divided the Iewes into outward and inward Rom. 2. 28. 29. and counted these latter onely Iewes and such as sayd they were Iewes and were not but did lye he calleth them the Synagogue of Satan Revel 3. 9. Even so he prophesied of a Beast or kingdom which should have two hornes like the Lamb Christ and so be called Christians but should speak as the Dragon work wonders deceive men that dwell on the earth c Revel 13. 11. 13. 14. He also foretold of false teachers among Christians who privily should bring in damnable heresies even denying the Lord that bought them c. 2 Pet. 2. 1. If thus we distinguish not between the true Christ and false Christs between true prophets and false prophets and so between true churches and false we may reteyn the name of Christ and Christian churches and be in deed nothing less And according to mine opposites manner of plea an other might reason thus Of synners in the world some are Angels and some are men If then the question be asked seing Christ came to save synners 1 Tim. 1. 15. which of these are redemed and saved by Christ are the church of God should we not answer men and among men also comprise all peoples upon earth Iewes Turks Pagans c. This is the mould of mine Opposers argument and as colourably as he pleadeth for Antichrists synagogue to be Christs Church so others doe plead for universal redemption of all peoples persons borne into the world from Ioh. 1. 9. Rom. 5. 18. and other like scriptures 4 The fourth reason is from baptisme a visible signe of Gods visible Church among Christians as circumcision was among the Iewes c. I answer the baptisme among Antichristians is in deed like their church Christs in name but not in deed and trueth As for that which he annexeth of our defending and reteyning that visible baptisme received in the church of Rome it foloweth after to be discussed when we come to treat of their baptisme In the mean while let it be observed that as Circumcision was a signe of the Church of old so was sacrificing both then and before Circumcision was instituted and all nations reteyning sacrifice then as well as Antichrist reteyneth baptisme the Lords supper now it wil also folow by like reason that all nations were then Gods churches which argumēt shal be prosecuted hereafter Againe as the foolish woman calleth passengers to her sweet stollen waters and pleasant bread of secresies Prov. 9. 13. 17. so this foolish woman the church of Antichrist by like stales allureth the simple unto her which are no sounder proof that she is Christs true spouse then the true mans purse in the theefs hand wil prove the theef to be a true and honest man 5 The 5 reason is from the defection of Iudah and Israel remayning stil Gods people notwithstanding therfore also the church of Rome in like manner Answ. Of the first part of this reason touching the state of the Israelites we are after to speak in particular but were it granted I deny the consequence it foloweth not the Antichristian synagogue is so also Inst. The consequence sayth he is prooved because these were types of the like state of the Christian churches recorded for our instruction 1 Cor. 10. 6. 11. with Rom. 154. 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. 2 Pet. 2. 1. Jude v. 5. 11. Rev. 2. 14. 20. 11. 2. c. Answ. I grant that he sayth for the Christian churches but for the Antichristian it is true in part onely The synns of Iudah and Israel are found in Rome so are the synns of Sodome Aegypt Babylon and heathen Rome which by warrant from God were types also of this Antichristian Babylon Rev. 11. 8. and 17. 5. From which I may as truly conclude Sodome Aegypt and Babylon of old were so farr fallen frō God as they were not his churches or peoples and they were types of this church of Antichrist and the things written of them are for our instruction Rom. 15. 4. Iude v. 7. 2. Pet. 2. 5. 6. Therfore this Antichristian synagogue is not Christs true church Further I answer that the types which were in Israel prove not that the things typed are in the same degree of good or evil neyther more nor less as mine opposite would inferr that Antichristians are not now more deep in apostasie then were the Israelites For types and figures agree in some things but not in all Moses Aaron David and all other types of Christ were synners but it were wicked therupon to conclude that Christ himself was a synner Moreover Christs Preisthood was figured in Aaron his sōns yet did not that Levitical Preisthood fully type out his office but in part a more complete figure of him was in Melchisedek as th'Apostle sheweth in Heb. 5. and 7. chapters Accordingly it wil follow that Antichrist is answerable to Israels apostasie in part and yet a more complete figure of him is to be found in the Gentiles And as Christ excelleth in holynes all that were types of him so Antichrist exceedeth in wickednes all the types of him therfore hath many sorts of wicked men to resemble his impietie Rev. 11. 8. And that his consequence followeth not
But this were to build a new Babylon and to make a confused mixture of the members of Christ and of Antichrist contrary to all the scriptures 2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. 17 Rev. 21. 27. The other scripture which he citeth Deut 7. 1 11. helpeth him no more then the former for there in the 11. verse the Commandements Statutes and Judgments which imply all Moses law are expressed if other nations were freed from all these then were they freed from all law and so from all syn for where there is no Law there is no transgression seing Syn is the transgression of the Law 1. Ioh. 3. 4. And where he instanceth mariage with Pagans which is there forbidden Deut. 7. 3. and applieth it to Papists now that they should syn to mary with such I grant it But his inference therupon that therfore they are the true church and in the covenant of grace I deny For the Iewes at this day which professe after their false manner the God of Israel and all things written in the Law and Prophets should syn if now they maried with such doing contrary to their express Law Mal. 2. 11 Yet are not the Iewes now in the covenant of grace or the church of God Againe in Deut. 7. 5. there is commandment to destroy images and like monuments of idolatrie if this was peculiar to Israel then other nations synned not in suffering idols among them undestroyed wheras the Apostle plainly sheweth their greivous syn in making and using such idols Rom. 1. 23. and consequently it must needs also be their syn that they did not forsake destroy and abolish them If any now aske whether the other nations were then bound to all the ordinances of Israel I answer no for some things were never before commanded nor unto other then the church of Israel as the strangers might eat some meates which the Israelites might not Deut. 14. 21. Such things having never been forbidden them of God they might eat without syn as we may at this day But this I say of the nations that all the Lawes Statutes and judgments which were once commanded them of God they were bound for ever to keep til God againe repealed them As for example all the ten commandements and such Statutes or cerimonies as were taught them of God as sacrificing Gen 4. 3. 4. 8. 20. not to eat flesh with the blood Gen. 9. 4. and all other the like And for judgments to kill murderers Gen. 9. 6. and so to punish other malefactors And no Apostasie could ever free them from syn in neglecting any of Gods lawes once given them So no Apostasie could free the Israelites from any law of Moses or the world now from the Law of Christ. The Iewes that under Antiochus turned to Paganisme 1 Maccab. 1. 43. were guiltie they and their seed for neglecting circumcision the Passover and all other ordinances of Moses and their apostasie wherby they went out from the covenant of God and his church freed them not from syn at all So the Christians in like manner that have Apostate to Mahometisme are nevertheless in their synns for neglect of Christs trueth ordinances though they be no Christian church as all of us graunt Onely there is this difference to be put that such as know the will of God as did the Iewes and many Papists now may by the scriptures and doe it not shal be beaten with many stripes wheras the ignorant peoples and Popish multitude shal be beaten with few Luke 12. 47. 48. But to excuse them from syn wholly is to plead for iniquitie And for this cause both David in Ps. 147. and Moses in Deut. 7. urgeth Israel to thankfullnes and obedience above other peoples in that the Lord had now written his lawes and ordinances unto them and made them an holy people when he left other peoples onely to that doctrine which by word of mouth was delivered them from Noe and his sonns which if they did forsake as they had in a great mesure they should perish for ever 7. His seventh last reason for the church of Rome is taken from 2. Thes. 2. 3. 4. Where it is prophesied that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God This argument he handleth at large But first let it be observed how all his reasons hetherto are shewed to be insufficient and built upon weak grounds the first being taken from their baptisme which is adulterate as the church it self The second frō an inconvenience falsly presupposed that none in that church can else be saved The third from a question whether Christians Iewes Turks or Pagans be the church The 4. is againe from their baptisme The 5. is from the types of Iudah and Israel in apostasie The 6. is from a supposed freedome that such as are apostate from the covenant of God should have from syn if they neglect the ordinances of the gospel None of these arguments are taken from the essential things wherof the true church consisteth none from the matter to prove them saincts or forme to prove them united unto Christ and one to an other according to the order of his testament none from the faith to shew it to be true or from the worship and service of God or from the ministerie to manifest eyther of these to be according to Christ. And now the last of his reasons is from a figurative phrase the Temple of God which may be diversly understood and applied as himself cannot deny Let the prudent reader judge whether these his seven arguments be any thing like those seven pillars which Wisdome hewed out when she builded her house Prov. 9. 1. Now let us weigh his seventh reason The Apostle sayth he speaking of Antichrist in 2 Thes 2. 3. 4. describeth him thus There shall come an Apostasie defection or falling away and the man of syn shal be revealed the son of perdition who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he as God suteth in the Temple of God shewing himself that he is God c. Here the Apostle describing Antichrist speaketh of the Temple of God where he suteth c. Now that by the Temple of God in Jsrael was figured the church of God among Christians appeareth by these scriptures 1 Cor. 3. 16. 17. 2 Cor. 6. 16. Ephe. ◠21. Rev. 11. 1. 2. 19. 14. 15. 17. 15. 5. 6. 8. 16. 1. 17. compared with Zach. 6. 12. 13 and is acknowledged by the best writers of all ages c. So then from this scripture J reason as followeth Jf the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie be the man of syn here spoken of and the son of perdition who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped then is the church of Rome the Temple of God here spoken of wherein he suteth as God shewing himselfe that hee is God But the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie
true change as in Phil. 3. 21. he sayth Christ shal transfigure our vile body that it may be conformed to his glorious body yet in the former place he useth the word but for a counterfeyt change And that the people which worship Antichrist as God are called the Temple of God for name shew and pretence I have before manifested Obj. He doth abuse the scripture c. as if Pauls words were not plaine to such as will understand that Antichrist exalteth himself above all that is called god so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God and therfore is not the true God but the man of syn c. Answ. Some may think by Pauls words that Antichrist should openly profess himself to be God and above all Gods yet the Pope who is the head of Antichrist professeth himself to be the servant of the servants of God to be but the minister of Christ and Paul teacheth the same when he calleth his working the mystery or hidden secret of iniquity 2 Thes. 2. 7. Even so some may think by the Temple of God is meant the true church of God the people that in Christ are builded-togither for an habitation of God through the Spirit and that Christ dwelleth in their harts by â—aith Eph. 2. 21. 22. 3. 17 yet the Papists who are Antichristians doe beleeve that man of syn that exalteth himself above all that is called God to be a most holy man and Christian bishop they are of his saith worship and religion trusting in his pardons for remission of their synns c and therfore are no better Christians then he but children of perdition with him and are by Paul in the very same place counted among them that perish because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved therfore God hath sent them strong delusion that they should beleeve a lye that they all might be damned who beleeve not the trueth but have pleasure in unrighteousnes 2 Thes 2. 10. 11. 12. Who now except they be blinded with affection can think that Paul calleth such people the Temple of God otherweise then in respect of their profession of Christianitie and boasting that they are the onely good Christians when they are in deed the sworne servants of Antichrist and synagogue of Satan as Rev. 3. 9. Object Difference is to be put between the man of syn that sitteth between the temple wherin he sitteth he sitteth as God yet the temple wherin he sitteth is the Temple of God Answ. There is in deed such a difference as is between the pastor and the flock understanding by the Temple of God the church of Rome at this day such a difference as is between the seducer and the seduced both adjudged to destruction 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. Other differences if men feigne that the pastors or hierarchie are the man of syn sonns of perdition and the idolatrous people which be of one faith and religion with them are men of God and in his covenant of grace it is farr from the trueth Object See the like in the cases that fell out at Jerusalem and the Temple there when Baals idol of indignation was set at the entrie of the house of God Ezek. 8. 3. 5. and when Antiochus Epiphanes and his officers profaned the sanctuarie and citie of Jerusalem and set the image of Iupiter Olympius in the Temple and seat of God Dan. 11. 31. 36. who would not now put difference between the idols and persons aforesayd on the one hand and between the Temple and citie of God wherin they were set and which they polluted on the other Answ. The examples are farr unlike first Rome is not Ierusalem but Babylon Rev. 17. Secondly the Temple and holy things in Ierusalem being made of senseless stones and matter they could not be polluted with syn in themselves as the living stones of Christs house the people now may soon be and turned into a synagogue of Satan as the christian churches in the Apostles dayes are now long since turned to be Turks and Papists Doth not the Law plainly teach us this for in the yerely cleansing of the Sanctuarie it was because of the uncleannesses of the sonns of Jsrael and because of their trespasses in all their synns Levit. 16. 16. and for no uncleannes or syn in it self Thirdly the example of Antiochus is fit but wrong applied for he speaketh onely of Antiochus and his officers wheras both he his officers and his people the common souldjers were they that defiled the sanctuarie of God as it is sayd in the storie Antiochus went up against Jsrael Jerusalem with a great multitude and entred proudly into the Sanctuary c. 1 Maccab. 1. 20. 21. So in applying this he would have the Pope and his officers the hierarchie to be the man of syn as Antiochus and his officers the multitude of papists at Rome he wil not have to be as in deed they should be counted answerable to Antiochus soldjers but they must be the Temple of God answerable to the Temple of Ierusalem a most unjust resemblance For the Temple then was a mere patient and suffred that abuse at Antiochus hands so the thing answerable hereto should be if he would have made a fit comparison the Christians Gods true Temple which suffer for the truthes sake at the Antichristians hands such as are opposed to the worshipers of the beast and those that receive his mark of whom it is written Here is the patience of the saincts here are they that keep the coÌ„mandements of God and the faith of Jesus Revel 14. 9. 12. and againe I saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God and which had not worshiped the beast nor his image c Rev. 20. 4. And such I never doubted but they were the true Temple of God but I deny that the church of Rome at this day is such a people or such a Temple they are the marked soldjers of Antiochus the Pope and honour him as God in the temple of God their pretended christian church with high impietie Or at least they are like the Apostate Iewes which turned to Antiochus religion and became heathens with worse impietie 1 Maccab. 1. 13. 14. 15. 43. 52. Of this sort is his next allegation where to make his reader merry he likeneth me to the old man of Athens which would compell the Iewes to call their Temple by the name of Iupiter Olympius because Iupiters image was set up in it 2 Mac. 6. 1. 2 so I would have the church of Rome called Antichrists church c. I answer if the church the people of Rome were now mere patients amongst whom Antichrist cometh in by violence they not consenting unto him any more then Gods temple did to Iupiters image it should be foolishnes in me to call it Antichrists church Or to put the
can be transformed as the ministers of righteousnes 2 Cor. 11. 14. 15. is it such a marvel that he should transforme his temple and church into the Temple of God and church of Christ and yet as he is a Divil stil notwithstanding his transformation so his Temple coÌ„tinueth stil the Temple of the Divil and church of Antichrist how ever they are disguised with other names and habits And to help a litle to the discerning of both these opposite mysteries of pietie and impietie wee are to know that Christs Kingdome beginneth in the kingdome of Satan and is perfected in the Kingdome of God and Antichrists kingdome beginneth in the kingdome of God and is perfected in the kingdome of Satan For the god of this world having blinded the eyes of infidels who are dead in synns and walk according to the prince of the power of the aier Christ by his Ministers sent into the world and by his word of trueth the gospel causeth light to arise unto them openeth their eyes and turneth them from darknes to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receive forgivenes of synns and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in him and thus God delivereth them from the power of darknes and translateth them into the kingdome of his beloved son Then cometh Satan by Antichrists which are his ministers privily crept into the church and by the word of lying which is Antichrists gospel he darkneth the mindes of them that have not received the love of the trueth and turneth them back againe from God and by damnable heresies privily brought in draweth them even to deny the Lord that bought them and so bring upon themselves swift destruction Then doe they goe out from the church blaspheme the way of trueth and togither with the Beast doe warr against Christ whom yet in name and pretense they would seem to honour and serve so accomplishing the mysterie of their iniquitie unto assured damnation if they turne not againe unto God This thing not being observed how Christ beginneth in the world and draweth men out of it into his church and Antichrist beginneth in the church draweth men out of it into the world againe as the Dragons taile draweth the starrs of heaven â—â—fteth them to the earth Rev. 12. 4. mine opposite thought it absurditie and contradiction in me for writing thus When th Apostle therfore telleth us that Antichrist sitteth as God in the Temple of God it is to be vnderstood first of their invading and destroying of Gods church and people as the heathens of old dealt with Jerusalem and dwellers therin secondly of their owne vayne ostentation whiles they will have it called the Christian catholik church and th Pope the head of the same Vpon this he thus inveigheth What have we here Doth himself now by the Temple of God vnderstand Gods church and people yea such as was answerable to Ierusalem and the dwellers therin of old why then hath he so eagerly oppugned us hereabout c. Answ. I oppugne the present church of Rome which Antichrist destroyeth not but buildeth and adorneth as an alluring harlot the Christian church which was in Rome of old that hath he invaded and destroyed long since for they then were Saints such as he hateth these now are worshipers of him and of idols Divils and are an habitation of Divils So there is as much difference between the church of Rome now and the church then as between the Bishop of Rome now the Bishops then they were Christs ministers this now is Antichrist as mine opposite himself confesseth And what cause hath he to insult as if he had got the victorie Let wise men judge But he proceedeth Obj. Where can he shew in the scriptures that sitting is put for invading or destroying c. Otherwhere stil he teatheth that by sitting is meant abiding continuing dwelling c. What if I cannot prove that sitting is put for invading or destroying if I prove my assertion by other words of the text shall it not suffice The words Eiston Naon into the Temple may imply by a figure his invading and the person that invadeth being an enemy a theef a wolf implyeth his destroying for our Saviour sayth The theef cometh not but for to steale and to kill and to destroy 1 Joh. 10. 10. The scripture often wanteth words easy to be understood so here Paul sayth of Antichrist that he having entred into the Temple of God sitteth as God And if they regard not my exposition they shall have his on whom they so much rely Mr. Iunius I mean who so explaineth it saying The testimonie of signe is this that Invading the temple of God he shal sit as God Jun. Animad vers in Bellarm. Controv. 3. l. 3. c. 14. not 18. But what if I confirme it by the word sitting which he thought so unlikely In Esai 14. 13. the Prophet upbraideth the king of Babylon thus Thou hast sayd in thine hart J wil ascend into heaven c. J wil sit also in the mount of the congregation in the sides of the North meaning mount Sion where Gods temple was But this is meant of Nebuchadnezars invading of Ierusalem to spoile the same as the historie sheweth 2 King 25. and in him Antichrists tyrannie against the church was lively figured As for sitting to mean continuing though it doth so often times yet not alwayes Christ sate upon the mount of Olives Mat. 24. 3. the disciples sate in the house Act. 2. 2. yet dwelt they not or continued long there And when the Babylonian invaded mount Sion to sit there he continued not there but having spoiled the citie burned the Temple and captived the people he returned into Babylon 2 King 25. so Antichrist spoiling Christian churches returneth to his whore of Babylon his proper habitation which he wickedly boasteth to be the Sion Temple and church of God Wheras mine opposite expounded the Temple of God to be the church and shewed not whether he meant a church particular or general and catholik I sayd for a particular church it wil not agree with the prophesies of Antichrist whose citie or church is so great as peoples kinreds tongues nations doe dwell in the streets therof Rev. 11. 8. 9. He gainsayeth me thus First Still he calls that Antichrists church which th' Apostle calleth the Temple of God Answ. It is his own interpretation that the Temple meaneth the church and that he that sitteth in it is Antichrist and sitting he wil have to be continuing and why may not I call that church wherin Antichrist sitteth continually as God Antichrists church yea though it were indeed Gods church as he supposeth Seing the citie wherin Christ did but dwell was called his owne citie Mat. 9. 1. And that which God sayth in my house and in my kingdom 1 Chron.
thereupon It was not Gods people in Babylon that killed those witnesses Rev. 11. but it was Babylon that killed those witnesses Gods people therin Because Gods people killed not those witnesses but the Beast in his catholik citie or church therfore thinks he that citie of the beast is not his church a fayre conclusion Obj. Note here that by the great citie is meant not onely the citie it self but the whole jurisdiction authority and dominion therof how farr soever extended Answ. It is a good note and worth the marking for the great citie being the church of Rome as before is proved it followeth that the extents of that church reach further then the materiall walls of Rome even to all nations that are of the Popes religion and therfore to bound it within the Lateran parish of Rome is to restreyn that which God sheweth to be more large It were a happy day if the Popes unruly power were limited within the Lateran parish and his jurisdiction reached no further But he must have a larger scope to range in yet a while and weak warriers are they against him that plead for his whorish church of Rome that it is the true church of Christ and under his covenant of grace It is the thing that the Pope would most gladly have proved and I am well assured Babylon wil not fall til it be otherweise battered Obj. Where yet observe further that the church of Rome being fallen into deep apostasie and having the man of syn sitting ther in as God who hath that citie for his throne the things that are spoken of this citie are also applied to the apostate estate of that church of Rome and the other churches that are under the jurisdiction of the prelacie of that Sea whersoever and of whatsoever people kinred tongue or nation they be c. But shall wee therfore conclude that by the Temple of God 2 Thes. 2. 4. may not be understood the church of God Answ. How glorious is the trueth that forceth those to yeild that fight against it His former reasons that by the Citie in Rev. â—1 8. the church was not meant he now frustrateth himself But still he cleaveth to his first plea The temple of God 1 Thes. 2. is the church of God I may answer hereto as God by Ieremy did to the Iewes Trust not in lying words saying The temple of the Lord the temple of the Lord the temple of the Lord are these Ier. 7. 4. Our dispute is in what sense Paul calleth it the Temple of God whether as the true temple builded by Solomon or as the false temple builded in Samaria by the Apostate Israelites which the Prophet calleth the house of their God Amos 2. 8. as the Apostle calleth this the Temple of God Now faine he would have this Romish temple of apostate Papists to be the true temple of God and that they notwithstanding their deep apostasie are Gods true church under his covenant which I deny and have before disproved and Paul in the very same place counteth them among those that perish for beleeving lyes which shal be damned for not beleeving the trueth 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. and Christ teacheth that being worshipers of the beast their names are not written in the book of lâ—fe Rev. 13. 8. 17. 8. but they shal be tormented in fyre and brimstone for ever Revel 14. 9. 10. 11. and that the whorish church Babylon the great the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth which is drunken with the blood of the Saincts and of the martyrs of Jesus shal be destroyed for ever Rev. 17. 5. 6. 18. 21. And who now that have not their right eye blinded wil not rather say it is the Samaritans Temple then Solomons though in pretence and colour the Temple of God And seing every true church now is a particular congregation in one place but the church of Rome is a new found catholik church spred over many nations under one head Bishop the Pope it can not possibly be Christs true church having neyther the constitution faith worship ministerie order or ordinances of Christ but of his enemie Antichrist Wheras I formerly wrote Neyther is that if they meane a particular church answerable to the Temple in Israel which was not for one synagogue but for the whole nation of the Iewes and for the Gentiles that came to the faith through the world To this he sayth How greatly forgets he himself and how presently seing but a line before he sayd the Temple figured not onely the catholik or universal church Ephe 2. 21. but also every particular church by proportion 1 Corint 3. 16. 17. And may we not then apply it to that wherof it was a figure c. Answ. No for mine opposite granteth that the Temple was primarily a figure Christ but so to apply it in this place 2 Thes. 2. himself thinketh not fit I deny not but some where it may and ought to be so applyed but considering that the Temple of God wherin Antichrist now sitteth is a catholik church spred over many nations as was prophesied Rev. 11. 8. 9. I think the applying of Pauls words in 2 Thes. 2. to a particular church is neyther fitting to the type nor to the prophesie nor to the accomplishment of it which we see at this day The priests in Israel figured Christ chiefly secondarily Christians Rev. 1. 6. But to apply those things which Paul speaketh of the Priests in Heb. 10. 11. 12. to us Christians were not onely unfitting but heretical Obj. The Candlesticks and Lamps were set in the Temple of God and the church of Rome was a golden Candlestick as well as the rest of the primitive churches and this man himself sayth definitely the true churches were many of them apostate when John wrote whom yet notwithstanding Christ acknowledgeth to be golden candlesticks In any of which of Antichrist had sit as in the church of Rome I suppose this man would not deny but his sitting then should have been in the Temple of God whether it were considered as a particular candlestick it self or a branch of the great general candlestick c. Answ. 1. If the Candlesticks were churches in the Temple the church then the Temple in such respect is the catholick church for one particular church is not in an other 2. I grant that the church of Rome was a golden candlestick in th'Apostles time and I think mine opposite would not deny but then also the Bishop of Rome was a starr in Christs right hand But now the Bishop is a starr fallen from heaven and acknowledged to be Antichrist why then may not the church be fallen with him as Paul forewarned Rom. 11. 22. and the candlestick removed from it as wel as from Ephesus Rev. 2. 5. except Rome have a privilege above all other cities because it crucified Christ. 3. I grant also that
King and captaines 2. King 25. And he should so have applyed these Gentiles that tread down Gods holy ordinances touching his church and worship to the papists the Popes marked soldjers that have the number of his name and not to the Bishops and Preists onely For in the beasts armie there are not onely Kings and captaines which fight against Christ and Christians but all sorts of men both free and bond both smal and great which shal be slayn with the sword of Christ which proceedeth out of his mouth and all the fowles shal be fylled with their fleshes Rev. 19. 17. 18. 21. So not the popish hierarchie alone but all other of their idolatrous religion are the Gentiles in Rev. 11. whom the holy Ghost measureth not amongst his people but casteth out as profane treaders down of his holy things though mine opposite measureth them as Gods true church and in his covenant yet counteth their pastors which are as faithfull and holy as they to be wicked Gentiles So the Beast which killeth Gods witnesses Rev. 11. 7. he expoundeth the Antichristian hierarchie Locusts which are but the heads hornes and cheif members of the Beast For as in Dan. 7. the Lion is the kingdom of Babel both princes and subjects and the Beare the kingdom of the Persians and so all the rest as is there expounded in v. 23. the fourth Beast shal be the fourth kingdom upon earth and the ten hornes out of that Beast or kingdom are sayd to be ten kings v. 24. so the Beast in Rev. 13. is meant of a whole kingdom and not of governours onely And the scripture plainly ynough clâ—areth this saying And they of the people and kinreds and tongues nations shal see their dead bodies c and shal not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves and they that dwel upon the earth shal rejoyce over them and make merry c. Rev. 11. 9. 10. So not the hierarchie onely but popish multitudes also doe belong to this beast and kingdome that murdereth the witnesses of Christ. And here note how mine Opposite himself is driven to confesse that the Church of God and the Beast doe in deed differ much the one from the other but the Church of Rome both hierarchie and people are the Beast as before is prooved therfore the Church of God and the church of Rome doe in deed differ much the one from other and mine adversarie granteth that which overthroweth his own plea. This wil yet further appeare by this that foloweth Whiles the holy citie lieth ruinous troden under foot by the Antichristian Gentiles which keep it from being reedified and measured so long a time 1260. yeres there is an other great citie which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt where also our Lord was crucified Rev. 11. 8. even Babylon the great the mother of fornications and abominations of the earth Rev. 17. 5. which lyeth not ruinous but is stately built dekt and garnished glorifying her self and living diliciously which saith in her hâ—rt I sit 〈◊〉 Queene and aâ—no widow and shal see no sorow and this is the great Citie Rome which in th'Apostle Iohns time reigned over the kings of the earth Rev. 17. 18. but after that became a Christian citie or politie but soon forsook Christ and were Christians in name being in deed Gentiles and a Catholik church sitting and reigning over peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues Rev. 17. 1â— Which albeit myne opposite before laboured to make it differ from the Church of Rome yet I also before took away his reasons And here himself yeildeth so much as wil overthrow him For Note here sayth he that by the great Citie is meant not onely the citie it self c. for as one wel writeth the citie is not onely the Town or peece of ground conteyned within the compâ—sse of the walls therof togither with the Citizens and inhabitants having order and goverment c. but also the whole jurisdiction and goverment of the cite in all places perteyning therto So the streets of this citie reach farr even to all places under the jurisdiction therof and comprehend sundry peoples and kinreds and tongues and nations as here is sayd Wherupon it is fitly compared to the great citie Babylon c. Where yet observe further that the church of Rome being fallen into deep Apostasie and having the man of syn sitting therin as God who hath the citie for his throne the things that are spoken of this citie are also applied to the apostatle estate of that church of Rome and the other churches that are under the jurisdiction of the prelacie of that Sea whersoever and of whatsoever people kinred tongue on nation they be Which application therof J doe also acknowledge as it is observed by and according to the word of God Rev. 11. 8. with Esai 1. 10. Ier. 23. 14. Ezek. 16. 2 -46 Rev. 14. 8. and 17. and 18. c. with Esai 21. 9. and 48. 20. Jer. 50. and 51. 1 -45 Ezek. 16. 2 -35 and c. 23. Ziaoh 2. 6. 7. Thus farr he yeildeth Wherupon it is evident to all that will see how this great citie the glorious church of Rome that killeth Gods witnesses in it is a farr different thing from the holy Citie which that church treadeth down and keepeth from being reedified as the Babylonians having ruinated Ierusalem kept it from being built againe during their reigne So then his comparing of Rev. 11. 8. with Esai 1. 10. and Ier. 23. 14. seemeth to be an unequal match by which he would make the church of Rome as truly Gods as Ierusalem and the Temple were Gods in Esaias time and Ieremies when wicked Iewes likened to Sodomites and Gomorrheans worshiped in them For 1. Ierusalem then was standing here it is tuined and lyeth unbuilt unmeasured cast out from all measuring by the reed of Gods word 2. Sodom and Babylon are never in scripture called the holy citie as Ierusalem is yet here he would have that which God nameth Sodom Egypt Babylon to be in deed Ierusalem 3. Neither Esaie nor Ieremy doe call the holy Citie Sodom or Gomorrha but the wicked people in that holy citie Which may fall out in the truest church on earth that there may as slagitious persons be in it as any in Sodom So in the church of Christ and his Apostles there was Iudas a Divil But Antichrists citie hath no other name then Sodom Egypt Babylon and Rome by whose power and politie Christ was crucified and this name is given it spiritually that is in spirit and trueth as being no way inferiour but beyond them rather in all impietie cloked with hypocrisie In deed Bellarmine pleading for the Pope contendeth against Hierom that Jerusalem might be called Sodom and citeth this very text Esai 1. 10. ye Princes of Sodom but Mr Iunius on whom mine opposite so much relyeth as wee shall see anone answereth
him It is false The Prophet calleth not the citie Jerusalem Sodom or Gomorrhe but the Princes and people figuratively princes of Sodom and people of Gomorrhe The comparison is made of men not of places Likeweise D. Whitakers answering Bellarmine to the same objection sayth Neyther doe wee ever read Jerusalem to be called Sodom or Egypt this agreeth much more truely vnto Rome c. J confess that there in Esa. 1. the people of the Iewes are for their vices compared to Sodom and Gomorrhe as also in Ezek. 16. but yet it was not called Sodom and Gomorrhe spiritually but figuratively wheras this citie is called Sodom and Egypt spiritually that is in a spiritual respect for spiritual lust luxurie blindnes all which are found in the popish church But mine opposite putting no difference between the holy citie Ierusalem ruined and the great citie Babylon Sodom Egypt gloriously edified compareth the phrase of treading the holy citie by the Gentiles Rev. 11. with treading the Lords courts by hypocritical Iewes Esai 1. and sayth it may signify besides a treading down or underfoot a frequent continual conversing in the outward visit le church with their bodies Which if it be granted yet this must be granted also that it is here cast out not to be measured as Gods true church which was not the case of Ierusalem and the Courts in Esaies time And as for the phrase it is such as may mean no frequent continual conversing at all but a violent suppressing of the building thereof For to omitt that he speaketh here of treading down the citie and in Esay of treading down the Courts the Gentiles treading down the earthly Ierusalem Luke 21. 24. meaneth not the frequenting of that place to worship God in Neyther doth the adversaries treading down of the Sanctuarie in Esai 63. 18. or of the Sanctuarie and host that is the temple and people of Ierusalem Dan. 8. 13. or the treading down of the Lords portion Jere. 12. 10. or of his vinyard Esa. 5. 5. signify a frequenting to doe good in appearance as did the Iewes in Esai 1. 11. 12. 13. who came with multitude of sacrifices to honour God and that place of his dwelling Finally as he dutst not deny but the Gentiles in Rev. 11. were also figured out by the heathens of old for he sayth not heathens alone as Antiochus c but synful rebellious Iewes so he should have observed that figures agree not in all things For if I would prove the Antichristians now to be professed heathens and no church because Antiochos and the Babylonians were professed heathens and no church in comparison with the Iewes he would deny the consequence even so his matching them with the true church of God in Iudea because the wicked of that church were figures of them is a very weak conclusion His exposition of making the Temple altar and worshipers to signify the invisible church of Gods elect and the Gentiles with the Court and holy Citie to be the visible church of hypocrites aagreeth neyther with this place nor with Esai 1. For no men can know much lesse measure the invisible church of Gods elect as Iohn here measured the Temple altar and worshipers this belongeth to God alone who knoweth who are his Neyther in Esai 1. were there two distinct churches or places in Ierusalem one wherein the faithful and elect worshiped and another wherin Sodomites and hypocrites trode the Lords courts Besides if so it were as he supposeth what manner of people doth he make the church of Rome which he pleadeth for a cōpany of Sodomites hypocrites cast out unmeasured of God of all good men And how thē are they Gods true church sealed with his covenāt of promise He sayth the daughter of Sion left as a cottage in a vinyard c. Esai 1. 8. was the faithful church of the sealed and elect Who ever heard of such an exposition of those words The daughter of Sion usually signifieth the Common wealth or church of the Iewes as the daughter of Babel Psal. 137. 8. vvas the Common vvealth of Babylon And as Esaie here complaineth of the calamities of the church of Iudea by former warrs for their synns v. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. so where the Babylonians afterward utterly wasted it Ieremie lamenteth how from the daughter of Sion all her bewty was departed the Lord had covered her with a clowd in his anger c. purposed to destroy her wall her elders sate on the ground her breach was like the sea none could heale her her prophets had not discovered her iniquitie to turne away her captivitie c. all which doe concerne the generall state overthrown by the Babylonian not the state of the faithful and elect onely He setteth down from my former writing against Mr Smyth my judgement touching this scripture Rev. 11. when I wrote as he sayth for the trueth He traduceth me now as a quite other man but how justly the reader may see by the very wordes of mine which he hath set downe For there I sayd the cōmandement to measure the Temple altar and worshipers signified the restoring or repayring of Gods church and people after some destruction and desolation as the like visions shewed to Ezekiel Zacharie after the destruction of Solomons temple doe manifest c. There I applied the Gentiles in Rev. 11. to the Babylonians and other heathens Jer. 12. 7. 20. 4. Esa. 63. 18. Further I shewed but this he setteth not downe that M. S. enought have seen a figure of those Gentiles Rev. 11. set forth by the Psalmist O God the gentiles are come into thine inheritance c. where by Gentiles are not meant the Jsraelites but Babylonians or other heathen persecutors c. and that Antichrists church is called Babylon and Christs Jerusalem c. As M. Io. then well approved of my answer to M. S. so even now he sayth still I did soundly convince him And who then wil not see that M. I. even by his own graunt is likewise soundly convinced For as M. S. fetched the type of these Gentiles from the Israelites so doeth M I. fetch it from the Israelites in Esai 1. and contrary to that sound conviction wil not have it like the restoring of the Temple after the Babylonians had burnt it but like the afflictions of the Iewes whiles their Temple Courts and Citie stood undestroyed Esa. 1. So whether of us two be caried about of every wind and as reeds shaken hither and thither as he intwiteth me I leave it unto the prudent reader to judge As then so still I hold the holy Citie Rev. 11. to be meant of Ierusalem not of Babylon how mine opposite now hath expounded it we have seen As I did then so still I hold those Antichristian Gentiles Rev. 11. to be answerable to the Babylonians and other heathens Psal. 79. Jer.
a new Temple altar preisthood and signes differing from Christs as in deed he hath doen. And that idolatrous house erected for the worship of the true God not onely the Israelites but the Prophet Amos calleth the house that is the Temple of their god Am. 2. 8. as Paul calleth the house wherin Antichrist sitteth the temple of God 2 Thes. 2. yet this man blameth me for comparing that Temple with Ieroboams idol temples which Israel builded when he forgat his Maker Hos. 8. 14. how justly let men of judgment consider 2. His 2. exception is about Babylon and the Beast that I make them one with the Church of Rome and distinguish not Babylon from Sion This I have before cleared shewing that the church of Rome is the whore of Babylon Rev. 17. and I distinguish it from Sion which he confoundeth with Babylon being himself in that blame which he would impute unto me And to teach that God calleth us out of any civil state or goverment I have formerly proed to be erroneous and seditious contrary to the Apostles Rom. 13. 1 Pet. 2. 3. That Antichrists Apostasie and the church of Rome with him is much worse then Ieroboams and Israels with him I constantly affirme and let the synns of them both be compared and it wil soon appear Did Ieroboam pray unto creatures as the church of Rome doth to innumerable even all Saincts and Angels and some mere fictions Did Ieroboam hold any of those manifold blasphemous heresies now holden in the church of Rome Nay let the very Babylonians of old be taken and I wil undertake to prove that the church of Rome is not behinde them but in respect of the light of the Gospel revealed by Christ much worse 4. I grant that in Pauls time the church of Rome was set in the way of God and soon after fell into apostasie but where he chargeth me to say that the ordinances of God stil reteyned in that church are stollen he wrongeth me For I acknowledge not this church now to be that which was in Pauls time but a counterfeit arisen since a theif partner with Antichrist in robbing the church as the Babylonians robbed the Temple and abusing the ordinances therof to their perdition But then he objecteth Jf the church of Rome should repent c. they should not reteyn the baptisme and other ordinances of God which she hath but must part with them seing they are stollen goods And here he insulteth asking the Anabaptists how they can ever be thankfull ynough to me for thus pleading their cause c. Answ. If the Babylonians should have repented and joyned to the church of God at Ierusalem they there might have had an holy and lawful use of Gods vessels altars c which before they had stollen and abused so may these spirituall Babylonians have at this day if God give them grace to repent joyne unto Sion Here then the Anabaptists wil conne mine opposite but little thank for his gratulation 5. He calleth it my like errour and iniquitie to match baptisme and the other ordinances of God in the church of Rome with the feasts worship and sacrifices of the heathen who were without Christ and without God c. These assertions he sayth are miserable and Anabaptistical Answ. But why then doth he not refute them by the word of truth I could as easily call his assertions miserable and Papisticall but he would take that for no sound conviction And had he but related mine own words in that 85. page of my book the reader might have seen how little cause he had to exclaime â— I spake not generally of the heathens feasts worship and sacrifices as he would intimate to his reader but distinctly of those which had been ordeyned of God differing from other of their own devisings 2. I sayd the heathens kept Gods ordinance as well as Rome with their sacrifice of the Mass. He telleth his reader I match the baptisme c in Rome with the worship and sacrifices of the heathen Is this good dealing so to change my words But sundry such injuries I must beare And why may we think doth he in sted of the Lords supper now turned into a Romish mass put baptisme But because he thinketh that he hath colour to plead for one sacrament more then for an other In handling that point of their baptisme I instanced this other seale our Lords supper and an other ordinance of God Excommunication both which he passeth over yea every where when it cometh in his way he shunneth it throughout his book as in this place He knew well it was as a red hot yron that would burn his fingers But of it we shal speak more when we come to handle their baptisme 3. To his reason I answer the heathens were in deed without Christ and without God Eph. 2. and so are these Romish Antichristians or els the Apostle hath not given us a true rule to discerne Antichrist by that he denyeth both the Father and the Son 1 Joh. 2. 22. The hethens reteyned the knowledge of the true God in some mesure as their writings manifest and worshiped ignorantly the true God whom th'Apostles preached Act. 17. 23. so the Antichristians ignorantly worship the true God whom we preach and beleeve and as ignorantly by stocks and stones and prayers in an unknowen tongue like Parrats as did the heathens of old The hethens reteyned a knowledge of Christ the Redeemer figured in the sacrifices ordeyned of God so the Antichristians reteyn a knowledge of Christ in name and signified in the sacraments but as impiously doe they abuse them by holding they conferr grace ex opere operato by the work doen and other iniquities mixed with them as did the heathens and by beleeving and worshiping a Christ made of bread they surpass the heathens in ignorance and idolatrie Finally had mine opposite read Mr. Bezaes larger annotations on Eph. 2. as he read him on 2 Thes. 2. he might have seen the Antichristians very litle inferiour to the heathens without God even in Mr. Bezaes judgment which yet I suppose he would not have called miserable and Anabaptisticall as he doeth in me Touching the state of Israel in my discourse as he calleth it he confesseth I have many truthes which he also holdeth yet some sleightes errors c also mixed which he instanceth Seing he yeildeth the rest for truthes I referr the reader to the things there written which being observed he may the better judge of our controversie As first that we both agree The covenant between God man was alwayes conditional by the Law if they did his commandments they should live by them if they continued not in all things written in the Law to doe them they were cursed By the Gospel he that beleeveth in the Son of God hath everlasting life and he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life And all the figurative covenants that
Jsrael had were also conditional blessings promised to the obedient and curses to the transgressors 2. That mans breaking of the covenant is alwayes by syn and so God never breaketh covenant But by punishing and putting from him the rebellious we may say God breaketh or disanulleth the covenant Whensoever a people by syn forsake God and refuse his word calling them to repentance they cannot have themselves neyther can other men have concerning them any assurance of their salvation or that they abide in the covenant of his grace For whosoever abideth in him he synneth not whosoever synneth hath not seen him neyther knowen him Be it man or woman or family or tribe which turne their hart from the Lord to serve other gods though they bless themselves in their harts c. the Lord wil not be mercifull unto them Deut. 29. 18. 19. 20. These things being plaine by the scriptures and by him yeilded with many other things which I wil not here repeate he though he could not contradict yet intimateth notable heresie against me Whether J doe not in some things speak so about the covenant as may establish the righteousnes of works in some respect Alwayes remembring that the covenant of God wherof we speak is this to Abraham J wil be a God to thee and to thy seed after thee and J wil be your God and ye shal be my people Gen. 17. 7. 22. 18. Hos. 2. 23. Zach. 13. 9. with Act. 2. 39. 3. 25. Rom. 9. 25. 26. Answ. As I from my hart abhorre that heresie of righteousnes by the works of the Law as that which maketh Christs death in vaine and abolisheth grace Gal. 2. 21. Rom. 11. 6. so I trust no equal reader wil gather any such doctrine frō my writings though this man without all proof insinuateth it more then once against me 2. In repeating the covenant he useth not plainnes I might say sinceritie For those words in Gen. 17. 7. are but one part of the covenant to weet on Gods behalf he should have expressed the stipulation foregoing in vers 1. 2. walke before me and be thou perfect and J wil make my covenant between me and thee and after in vers 9. Thou shalt keep my covenant therfore c. So the other scripture◠by him cited doe not so fully express the covenant on both parts as doth Heb. 8. 10. 11. 12. Where both forgivenes of synns to justification and writing of the Law in our harts to sanctification and obedience are shewed to be the covenant of Gods grace with men He taxeth me as for error and contradiction in seeking to perswade that God brake the covenant on his part with Jsrael when all the tribes were togither Animadvers p. 88 and yet after in the same page say that whiles Jsrael was one they continued Gods church Answ. Herein he wrongeth me as he too often useth and keepeth not my words or meaning neyther taketh away the reasons from the scripture which I there set down I spake not of The covenant in generall as he would give his reader to understand but of a covenant and a condition of the covenant And what I sayd I proved from Exod. 6. 4. 5. 8. J have stablished my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan c. Then God brought them to the borders of the counttie and sayd Loe the land is before you goe up and possess it Deut. 1. 20. 21. but they were afrayd and would not goe up through their unbeleef Then the Lord was presently wroth and swore that not one of those transgressors should see that good land neyther did they but dyed in the wildernes Deut. 2. 1. c. Heb. 3. 17 19. Againe I instanced a condition of the covenant on Gods part that he would cast out the Canaanites c and on Israels part that they should make no compact with the inhabitants But when they brake covenant and agreed with them for tribute the Lord also presently brake with them saying J sayd J wil never break my covenant with you but you have not obeyed my voice wherfore J say also J wil not cast them out before you c. Iudg. 2. 1. 2. 3. 20. 21 Now what sayth mine opposite to these things are they not so He neyther yeildeth to the trueth neyther could stand before it but shunning to meddle with my reasons turneth upon me who shewed them as the reader hath seen and in sted of a covenant and a condition of the covenant setteth down the covenant meaning the covenant of grace and salvation wheras notwithstanding the breaking of these covenants conditions and other the like the people by repentance held fast through faith the covenant of grace For Moses and Aaron and many other who for their synns could not come into the land of Canaan yet are in heaven through the covenant of grace And so though some conditions of the covenant were broken both on their part and on Gods yet they being brought to repentance continued his church That herein I neyther wrote error nor contradicted my self as he would perswade against me And these things that fell out in Israel on both parts touching these figurative promises doe teach us the like touching the spiritual promises of eternal life if men break concerning them as in repentance faith and holynes without which men perish and shall never see God Luke 13. 3. Act. 2. 38. Mar. 16. 16. Heb. 12. 14. He next findeth fault That J shuffle togither the estates of Jsrael when they were one body and when they were rent in two Also whilest Israel was in the land and presence of the Lord and when they were cast out of his house and presence Animadv p. 88. 89. 90. 91. Answ. The first is a wrong imputation as the reader may see in the place of my book by him cited I there blame him for not distinguishing their estate when they were one and when they were rent asunder And though I pass from one to an other as I was led by answering him yet confound I them not But here he dealeth as in the former point answereth not my reasons wherby I convinced him of misapplying his diverse respects contrary to the words and meaning of the scriptures and to avoyd if he could his deserved blame checketh me but disproveth not what I wrote Let the reader compare what we both have sayd For the second I confess I did not so distinctly handle the state of Israel whiles they were in the land and after when they were put out as I should and would have doen had I fore-seen his pressing of every leight thing against me The reason hereof was that it skilleth not for the point in controversie to weet their Circumcision whether we respect them before they were cast out or after for they were not circumcised the second time in eyther estate And this mine opposite himself sheweth
sitteth as God in the Temple of God carrying them to destruction Whereas to prove the Temple of God 2. Thes. 2. which he expoundeth the Church of Rome to be the true Church he alleaged Zach. 6. 12. 13. Eph. 2. 11. c. 2. Cor. 6. 16. Rev. 11. 19. I shewed how he misapplied the Scriptures he repeateth his former answers which I have formerly resuted And now he addeth But to put him from his shifts let him tel us plainly when Paul sayth The Temple of God hath not agreement with Idols 2. Cor. 6. 16. if yet there be idols set in the Temple of God as was in the time of Manasseh and Antiochus whether now it ceased to be the Temple of God or not The Scripture sheweth it is the Temple of God notwithstanding 2. King 21. 7. Ier. 50. 28. Ezek 8. 5. 10. 16. Dan. 11. 31. 38. Answ. I tell them plainly that that Temple of God which the prophets speak of had no agreement with idols though the wicked set up idols in it by force But the Church of Rome which these call the Temple of God hath agreement with idols if images of silver and gold wood and stone a wheaten god in the Masse and the man of syn which sitteth as God be idols For these idols the Church of Rome worshipeth and serveth most synfully but the Temple of God which the Prophets speake of never worshiped the Idols set up in it nor had accord with them But this is a shift of shifts and a notorious sophisme in mine opposite to reason from the materiall Temple of God then which onely suffered that abuse to the spirituall Temple the Church or people now which are voluntary agents worshipers of Idols By which false argumentation he might even as well conclude that if the Papists should turn flat Pagans of Antiochus religion and serve his idols and be of his faith yet they should continue the true Church and people of God notwithstanding because the Temple then continued Gods true Temple notwithstanding all that Antiochus did thereto The next point touching their baptisme I will anone treat of in particular For his objection of salvation now had in the Church of Rome c. it was his second main argument for that Church which I have before answered he after his manner repeateth againe and againe the same things so lengthening his work I referr the reader to that answer I gave before Other things whereby I convinced his doctrine to beat the path for all licentiousnes contrary to the plaine Scriptures which shew that he that committeth sin is of the Divil and we know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not c. 1. Ioh. 3. 8. 5. 18. whereas if that he plead for be true men may be as prophane as Esau filthy in life as Sodom idolatrous and sinfull as the Aegyptians and Babylonians and yet if they wil call themselves Christians and be outwardly baptized c. they shal be justified as Gods true Church they and their seed in his covenant of grace c. which is to strengthen the hands of the wicked that he should not returne from his wickednes by promising him life Ezek 13. 22. These and other like things he passeth over without word of answer It is ynough for him to cry the Temple of God the Temple of God and to insist upon phrases which may diversly be understood Whereas the sound plea should be from the doctrines of faith and sanctification of life according by which the Apostles teach us to discern true Christians from false And who that seeketh after the truth would not rather insist upon these main grounds taught by our Saviour and his Apostles Verily I judge this pleading for Rome to be an exceeding great sin because it by consequence overthroweth both faith and holines seeing misbeleevers and most synfull idolaters as ever were on earth are justified to be Gods true Church notwithstanding and in his covenant of grace contrary to the whole Testament of Christ. It is to make a wide gate and broad way into heaven and will make men secure in all syn if they that serve the Man of syn himselfe worship his idols beleeve in his heresies and walk in his wicked works which hope to merit salvation by them in heaven may be sayd to be true Christians and in the state of grace Of the state of the Heathen WHereas I sayd J held it presumption for any to limit God by how smal meanes or measure of faith and knowledge he will save a man Who dares den but God had many elect among the heathens after he had separated Jsrael from them Yea God expresly sayd when he made Israel his peculiar people that yet all the earth was his Exod. 19 5. which are the words of the covenant generally Wherefore we leave Gods secret counsels to himself as he willeth us Deut. 29. 29. and doe consider onely the visible state of Churches by the rules of Gods law and promises To this mine opposite sayth What is it that he meaneth hereby Jf by the covenant he mean the covenant of grace for salvation whereof we treat and think that all people of the world in all ages and places of the earth are under it what differeth this from the opinion of the Anabaptists and Armintans touching general redemption Jf he speak not of the covenant of grace which is for salvation all may perceive he speakes not to the point in hand Answ. My meaning is plaine that God had his elect among the heathens as he bath in the Church of Rome and he could not but see what I intended By the covenant generally with all nations I mean the same that himself alleaged whileare from Keâ—kerman of the Church largely taken which he explaineth the company of all those which professe Christian religion or the name of Christ in what manner soever And thus sayth he are all heretikes schismatikes and Arians Papists Anabaptists and such like referred to the Christian Churches So if he understood himselfe he might understand me when I spake of the covenant generally For such large Churches as he describeth I hold all nations to be when God made his speciall covenant with Israel Noe was a Christian and had the covenant of grace in Christ to him and to his seed as absolutely as any Christian Church in the Apostles dayes though the mystery of the Gospel was not then so clearly revealed * as it was afterward by the Apostles But for the substance of the covenant namely Christ and faith in him with obedience it was given to Adam and his seed to Noe and his seed Heb. 13. 8. 11. 1. 2 3. 4. 7. c. And this covenant of grace in Christ confirmed by sacrifices as to us now by the sacraments Which sacrifices all nations kept the first thousand yeers after Noe which was till after Moses death as well as the large Christian
answereth Not Rome but the Church and not this Church but that which then was neerer the Apostles times which cleaved to the truth and simplicitie of Christ. The disputer would deceive ex elenchi ignoratione Into the same fall acie doth mine opposite often run in his dispute against me and is therefore reproved by Mr. Iunius himselfe To the objection of Gods calling in the Church of Rome barely affirmed without proof I shewed from 2. Thes. 2. that the man of syn sitteth there calling all to worship him c. and from Rev. 18. 4. that God calleth out of her such as shal bee saved And from Rev. 9. that their Bishops the ordinary meanes of calling are fallen from heaven and have the key of the bottomless pit c. which Mr. Iunius himselfe hath applied to the popish hierarchie Mine opposite replieth that I had not what to answer but boldly deny that God is there calling as in his Church c. In sted of disproving hee falleth to his wonted questioning how then there can be salvation to any in that church c. Answ. It is a wearines to answer his often demands Salvation by sundry meanes cometh to Gods elect in all false churches and in the world How came Rahab to faith among the Canaanites Heb. 11. 31. Iam. 2. 25. and other Gods chosen among the heathens It is one thing for God to call by extraordinarie means another thing for him to call as in his church by his ordinary ministerie which is the thing that I deny in Rome and they prove it not there The distinction between the papacie and the church of Rome that is the pastors and the flock of that church is of no weight to prove the difference pretended unlesse they were of divers faiths and religions But when the priests teach lies idolatries and heresies and the people beleeve worship and obey them as they doe in Rome they both perish together as the scriptures witnes 2. Thess. 2. Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. Touching the order or rank of Apostates to omit his trifling about his own translation of the word he sayth Mr. Junius speaks this not of the whole Church but onely of the papal hierarchie Be it so but what proof is brought for that he sayth It is knowen to all that have understanding of their estate that the church and people of Rome are apostate from the faith and service of Christ as are their priests and hierarchie What shall I need to bring proofes Mr. Iohnson himselfe here confesseth and prayeth all to take knowledge of it that the Church of Rome is fallen into most sinful and deep defection and Apostasie and so is a notorious harlot and idolatress If Mr. Iunius say otherweise and will have the Apostasie to be in the Hierarchie onely not in the church let them first agree between themselves before they trouble others with their contrary pleas Or let a third be umpier beeween them Mr. Cartwright who in his second Replie to D. Whitgift pag. 245. sayth J would gladly learn where the Lord hath willed us so to cast away the use of our iudgement that when men make open profession that they are members of the Pope which is Antichrist yet we must account of them as of members of Christ. Or how this is to iudge wisely Ioh. 7. 14. Wheras Mr. Iunius made the papacie or papal hierarchie to be an accident growing to the Church apoyson in the church a pestilence a dropsie a gangrene in the body I shewed these inconveniences upon their own grant If the hierarchie be no part of the body but an accident a poyson a gangrene c. what shal we think of al the actions of that hierarchy their ministration of sacramēts making of ministers whole church administration They cānot possibly be the actions of the body of the church neither of Christ c. And now what is become of their true baptisme and ordination of ministers And how doth God cal in that Church as before they reasoned c. Here mine opposite chargeth me with trifling and cavilling c. as if similitudes should hold in all things Answ. A similitude must hold in some things and in that for which it is alleaged else it is vaine to prove the hierarchie none of the Church this instance is brought the pestilence dropsie gangrene is none of the body but an accident To disprove this I shew that such accidents can doe no natural functions of the body but the hierarchie doe the naturall functions of the body of the church of Rome in teaching ministring the sacraments c. therefore they are not accidents but true members yea the chiefe of that Church Object The Apostate Jewes are compared to brass and iron Jer. 6. 28. Ezek. 22. 18. Shal we now conclude against Iudah to make a nullity of all the actions ministration and Churches estate Answ. It is a living body that doth actions and not mettall if a similie bee given of a living body and of a gangrene or scab that consumes the life of that body all in reason will see that the body doth actions the scab or gangrene doth none But in a similitude from metall there is no reason to speak of actions But thus the whole company is compared to a lump of metall the godly are as pure silver Psal. 66. 10. the wicked are as dross Psalm 119. 119. the fire of Gods word and tribulation trieth them 1. Pet. 1 6. 7. The Finer reserveth the pure metall but consumeth or casteth away the drosse thus God threatneth to doe with the Iewes Ezek. 22. 18. 22. Here to bring in actions of a living body is quite from the purpose but in the other similie not Here I would say of drosse can be no vessell for the Finer or of brass yron and reprobate silver the Lord maketh no choyce for vessels in his sanctuary Of like sort are his other wrested similitudes of trees corne seed c. all which must bee fitted to their proper natures But vvhat answer giveth he to the poynt it self First he breaketh out into his charitable termes saying Could any Anabaptist write more Anabaptistically then thus c. And after sundry reproches he replieth in Mr. Iunius name and to my question Can a scab or gangrene perform any action of a natural body or member hee giveth no answer but asketh againe Can a body that hath a scab or gangrene performe no actions of a natural body I answer yes it can And vvhat now will it help his cause For though the body can doe the naturall actions of it yet it is not possible for the scab or gangrene to doe them Either therefore the Pope and his hierarchie must be other then accidents gangrenes poyson dropsie c. in the church of Rome as in deed they are the chiefe members of that Whore or else they can performe no ecclesiasticall action As for his usuall refuge when all other faile the
and people so doth the Antichristian of Antichrist his ministers and people This Beast hath seven heads and ten hornes Rev. 17. 3. the ten hornes are sayd to be ten Kings v. â—2 as in Dan. 7. 24. the ten hornes out of that kingdom are ten kings these kings are none of the hierarchy wherefore the whole body of this beast conteineth more then the Pope and his hierarchy The Lamb against whom the Beast with his hornes fighteth Rev. 17. 14. Mr. Iunius expoundeth to be Christ and his Church why may not we by like reason expound the Beast to bee Antichrist and his Church Finally the Beast sayth Mr. Iunius * himselfe is the Romane Empire made long agoe of civill Ecclesiastical the chief head whereof hee maketh the Pope to beâ— And the Beast of Rome sayth he of a civil Empire is made an ecclesiastical Hierarchie The Whore he expoundeth to be the spiritual Babylon which is Rome so then by mine opposites plea neither did Mr. Iunius say neither ever entred into his thought that the ecclesiastical Roman Empire since the Pope was head of it or the hierarchy was ever married unto Christ. As for the Whore the Church which rideth this Beast he calleth it the False-Christian Church over which Antichrist ruleth and Antichrists Church which title mine opposite will not beare at my hand and that Antichristian Church which the Angel biddeth cast out and measure it not in Rev. 11. 12. Mr. Iunius explaineth thus As if he should say it belongeth nothing to thee to judge those which are without 1. Cor. 5. 12. which be innumerable look unto those of the houshold onely or unto the house of the living God Notwithstanding all this Mr. Iohnson would needs measure it for the true Church House and Temple of God so well doe Mr. Iunius and he accord together To a testimony which I alleaged out of D. Fulk concerning the miserable blindnesse of people in Popery of which mine opposite sayth he might have been better aduised hee to requiâ—e me as he thinketh alleageth a speech of Mr. Broughtons who sayth Millions of millions of Romes clients are saved Brought on Rev. 13. 18. p. 203. Answ. Would he be content that Mr. Broughton should decide our controversie touching the Church of Rome Thus then sayth that author in the same book The Popes clients are the taile of the great Dragon Thence from Rome was the Rebellion to arise Man of syn Apollyon c. to set up or depose states and to have a people of his own frame and to burne the true Temple of God The Popes power driveth the Church not to be seen for certaine hundreds of yeares The Pope wresteth al that is spoken of the true Church into protection for his synagogue of Satan Rome passeth al the enemies of the Church in cruelty and idolatry Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezar were never so hardened The prophane Caesars did not so strictly hinder all use of Religion Rome hath farr passed the old Babel in idolatry The Pope followeth al heathen superstition in name staffe apparel of Caesars and Temples setting but a face of Christianity upon them All their doctrine is such that their Temples Masse and dayly profession in al things is from the unclean spirit and their whole policie is a lye The Beast which is ascended out of Abyssos that is al his eorporations millions of millions alpapists goe from their Abyssos of black ignorance unto Abyssos Luk. 8. whither the Divils shal come in their time to be tormented for ever ever These sundry the like coÌ„mendations doth the author alleaged give of the church of Rome which mine opposite pleadeth for and taking hold of a phrase wresteth it for his purpose from the mans meaning who seemeth not to speak of the popish church but of the ancient Christian for these are there Mr. Broughtons words And for Julius the captaine who was so careful for S. Paul that for his sake the liâ—e of the prisoners were spared Act. 27. God would not record this but to save millions of millions of Romes clients for S. Paul but for the unthankeful to S. Paul and forgers that Peter was at Rome who never came neere it he stil reserved Pilats holiness that Popes selfe-murder should be the reward Was not here a testimony well alleaged So in other places of his book he quoteth Mr. Brightman and others whose writings directly cross that which he pleadeth for in many things as they that read the authors may see and anone I will set downe their sayings No marvell then if hee wrest my words as where next he sayth that that which the Apostle speaketh of the Man of sin and of them that perish because they receive not the love of the truth c. 2. Thess. 2. 9. J apply for exclusion from pardon and certain condemnation to the whole Church of Rome and so to all the members thereof and that for all ages that either have been are or shal be ever since the Man of syn was seated there Answ. I sayd no more but thus God if it were granted that he is the husband of this whore hath promised her no pardon but delivered her to Satan to be seduced deluded damned 2. Thes. 2. 9. 11. 12. I speak not here of those in Rome that have withstood her whoordoms which have been many nor of those to whom at last God hath given repentance unto life which I hope are moe nor of other his elect but of the whore in generall whose damnation is shewed in Rev. 17. and 18. yea th'Apostle speaketh more particularly That they all might be damned who beleeve not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness Behold how hee sayth they all which some evill minded man might urge against the Apostle as mine opposite doth against me But wise men know that the promises of life to the true Church pertain not to the reprobates that are in it so the threatnings of death to the false Church take not hold on Gods elect which are therein Object Jf this harlot the Church of Rome was never Christs spouse otherwise then all the world was by our first parents Adam and Noe how then hath she broken the covenant of wedlock if she never were in it how can she be called a whore in respect of Christ any more then the heathens that never knew God in Christ How can she be sayd to be in Apostasie c. Answ. Of the state of the Gentiles I have spoken before and proved them to have been all in the covenant of grace in Christ from Gen. 9. 9. c. But they generally fell from God to idolatry which is whoredom and apostasie and were in time rejected of God who renewed his covenant with one small nation of the Iewes and yet saved his elect among the Gentiles also So the Christian Churches planted by the Apostles soon fell from
nothing to the purpose For whensoever she fled seeing this other woman is not she but the foolish waman which opposeth her selfe and her doctrines unto Wisedom as in Prov 9. 13. 14. 15. 1. 2. c. men should know that the dead are with her and her guests are in the depths of hell He againe injurieth me when he sayth I here make the church of Rome she that now is to be also the court of Gods Temple and holy citie I make her to be the company of Gentiles like the Babylonians of old that tread down the holy citie and it is hee that speaketh M. Sm. language whiles he maketh the Jewes not the Babylonians to be the types of these Antichristians as we have formerly heard And it is his continuall fallacie in reasoning when speech is of the persons to flie to the things and ordinances typed by those holy places as if Ierusalem because it was alwayes the holy citie even when it was ruined could give holines to the prophane Gentiles that burned and trode it down I savd The heathens in their Altars Temples Sacrifices had the divine things of God among them as wel if not better then hath the Man of Syn and his worshipers in their sacrifice of the Mass and other manifold idâ—luries He replieth Why sayth he not then hath the church of Rome in her baptisme and other divine things of God among them though corrupted Answ. Behold here againe a plaine tergiversation I compare the sacrifices of the Gentiles with the sacrifice of the Antichristians he shunneth this and would have me speak of their baptisme As if the Lords Supper were not as holy as Baptisme But he is a frayd once to meddle with the Lords supper in Rome as we have seen before and wil have me write what he thinks good when the reason which I bring is too hard for him And yet he knoweth that elswhere I speak as much of their baptisme But thus he would here evade So I speaking of the Man of syn which in his own understanding is the hierarchie and of his worshipers the popish multitude he tells me Mr. Junius speaketh of the church of Rome and distinguisheth between it and the Man of syn with his hierarchie As if I also did not speak of that church when I mention the worshipers of the man of syn which whiles he by Mr. Iunius help would prove to be Christs true church in his covenant of grace contrary to th'Apostle who sheweth them to be in the state of damnation 2 Thes. 2. he is forced to give ground answereth not my reason touching the Gentiles but presently flieth to his wonted shelter of Judah and Jsrael Not regarding the instruction of the holy Ghost who throughout the book of Revelation mentioneth not the Israelites but as the sealed of God and kept from Antichrists abominations Rev. 7. and for the Popish multitude they are called Gentiles Sodom Egypt Babylon Rev. 11. 17. with which when mine opposite is pressed he flieth to Iudah and Israel for an answer as we every where have seen For the Church of Rome to be the Mother of Christians feighned to be like the true Mother sick swollen with the dropsie c. wherin he chargeth me not to answer or confute Mr. Iunius I have doen both shewing by evidence of the scripture Rev. 17. with Rev. 12. that she is not the true mother Ierusalem but the whore of Babylon not sick onely but dead in her synns Rev. 20. 5. with Ephes 2. 1. And Mr. Iunius himself calleth her the Pseudo christian or falsly-named Christian church Mine opposite after that he hath againe according to his wont fled to Iudah and Israel replieth to Rev. 20. And first He referreth us to his answer unto the like spoken before of Israel Answ. There he laboured to prove it not death in syn but death civilly by overthrow of their estate But that say I though it were true of Israel cannot be the meaning here for this speaketh of their estate whiles Antichrist the Beast and his kingdom liveth reigneth and triumpheth killing the saincts Rev. 20. 4. 5. so that he and his church is not dead civilly that is his kingdom 〈◊〉 not overthrowen all this while Secondly God speaketh here of such a death as is opposed to the first resurrection vers 5. but the first resurrection is from syn Coloss. 2. 13. 3. 1. and it is here sayd to be such as they that have part therin the second death hath no power on such Rev. 20 6. but if it be but a rising from civil death or destruction of an outward state they should not by it be freed from the second death which is due to such onely as rise not from death of syn So this his answer is impertinent Besides even Mr. Iunius himself expoundeth it of them that lye dead in syn 2. Jf this death sayth he be as some think the apostasie spoken of 2. Thes. 2. 3. we must then remember withall that this apostasie is in the Temple of God vers 4. like as there was apostasie in Iudah and Jsrael heretofore and that difference is to be put between Gods Temple and the apostasie it self c. Answ. I have shewed that this death Mr. Iunius also assenting must needs here be understood of death in syn or in Apostasie if so he wil have it named Wheras after his manner he compareth it with th'Apostasie of Iudah and Israel the holy Ghost as we have heard compareth it with Babylon Rev. 17. But if he grant the apostasie in Israel was death in syn it wil help him nothing for what people soever is dead in syn they are not actually Gods visible church til they be raysed in Christ. I grant him a difference between Gods Temple and the Apostasie for if by the Temple he mean the people of God free from apostasie such in deed are not dead but the people of Rome now are in apostasie and have been long and by the sentence of God are dead in syn and apostasie therfore they are not those living stones built up to a spiritual house on Christ the living stone an holy Priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifice and for an habitation of God through the spirit but they are dead stones built upon Antichrist 3. Moreover sayth he the dead here spoken of live againe and reigâ—â— with Christ after the finishing of 1000. yeares Rev. 20. 5. whereas he speaketh of the Church of Rome as being long since damned and dead for ever so this Scripture will be found to be against himselfe Answ. The words of the Scripture are these But the rest of the dead lived not againe until the thousand yeares were finished this is the first resurrection Rev. 20. 5. How maketh this against me Doth it not shew they were dead the 1000. yeares of the Beasts reigne yet he would have them not dead but sick and diseased And how notoriously doth
of the abuse our question is of the thing it selfe notwithstanding their sinful abuse Ans. Our question is of popish baptisme which cannot bee rightly handled without looking to their abuses for how should we judge of the heathens worship and sacrifices if wee looke not upon their abuses as Paul doth in Rom. 1. The same I answer to his 5. exception of their opinions and errours Take away the errours of actions and what fault can we finde with any 6. If the Romish baptisme be a lye in the right hand of all that receive it then of infants then also in their own right hand that were baptised there Not to speak of the Martyrs c. Ans. There is no respect of persons with God Bee they old or yong better or worse syn is syn in all Though Gods grace in Christ purgeth syn from his elect which remaineth in the reprobates His 7. 8. and 9. exceptions are vain and repetitions of former things without conviction If Bellarmine or any speak truth wee may speak it with them so Paul speaketh with the heathen Poets Tet. 1. 12. 13. Act. 17. 28. 10. Jf they mean the true sacraments in Christs Church seale not up to Gods people forgiveness of sinns it is an errour if they meane that they doe not themselves take away sinns and conferr grace they use shifts and keep not to the poynt of the relation here spoken of and as it is appoynted to bee by the Lord himself Answ. The first I grant him and hee knew well it was not my meaning The latter I have proved that they being under Gods wrath 2. Thess. 2. have no seale from God of forgivenesse of synns in that estate And their doctrine of conferring grace by the work doen is hereticall and idolatrous which he not being able to gainsay puts it away as his manner is with a shift 11. From Gods sentence of condemnation touching Antichrist and his adhaerents they reason to Gods baptisme never condemned by the Lord but still continued in the Church and Temple of God where Antichrist sitteth Ans. Of his own mouth let him be judged Wee reason onely of Antichrist and his adherents the Whore of Babylon or adulterous church which hee sayth are condemned of God How then doth God give them the signe and seale of grace forgivenesse of synns Gods baptisme wee condemne not neither our Lords Supper but Antichrists Christening and Masse we deny to be Christs baptisme and supper Hee still beggeth the question which he should prove And let him take away Antichrist and his adhaerents and the church of Rome whereof we reason wil be vanished as smoke and come to nothing as take away Christ and his adhaerents so there will bee no Christian Church nor sacraments to be found 12. From the brasen serpent which was but a temporary and extraordinary signe the use whereof was ceased when it was thus perverted c. they reason to baptisme which is an ordinary signe whose use still continueth and may never be taken away or destroyed to the end of the world Ans. We reason not from the one to the other but by the abuse of the one we shew the abuse of the other And what is this in him but a shift to plead the temporarinesse of that signe For if they had burnt incense to it in the wildernesse or if they had burnt incense to the Cherubims or brazen Bulls or pillars which were continued signes they had made idols of them nevertheless Otherweise the wheaten god in the Popish supper is no idol seeing the use of the Lords Supper continueth to the worlds end as well as baptisme And hitherto of the shifts as he calleth them wherein how he hath shifted in sted of answering by the word of truth the wise reader may see Like these are his catalogue of Errours 1. That the baptisme had in the church of Rome is an idol c. Ans. 1. This is proved by the 2. commandement Exod. 20. whiles they ascribe divine honour to the creature 2. It is proved also by his owne assertion that bookes of prayer read for prayer are idols as before I shewed from his words in his last book 3. He sheweth not one word to prove it an errour in me but sayth Of which more hereafter Thus vain tantologies are his arguments to oppose the truth which he calleth Errour 2. That whereas idols are of two sorts both the kinds are in Popish baptisme Jf it be as the brazen serpent that from an holy signe was perverted to an idol it should presently be destroyed as 2. King 18. 4. Answ. I deny his inference If they had burnt incense to the Temple should it have been destroyed The brazen serpent was named but for an instance to shew that holy signes may be made idols by wicked men This doctrine hee being not able to convince leaveth it and would evade by the destroying of it As if all idols must bee destroyed The heathens made idols of the Sun Moon Starrs Beasts Fishes Mountaines Lakes c. Must all these therefore be destroyed If men make an idol of their King as did the Babylonians Dan. 6. 7. must the King presently be destroyed whoever heard of such divinity That which hee addeth of the Popes crossings exorcismes c. is before answered for he sayth Our question is of the baptisme it selfe as if those were not a part of Popish baptisme He would have wicked mens actions separated from all their synns errours and wickednes in doing them So in deed I could justifie all idolatry in the world for take away the errour and syn of an action and that which remaineth must needs be good 3. They say not they have renounced the abuses and kept the baptisme it selfe c. but say they have renounced that Romish baptisme as an impure idol in their abuse If they have in deed so doen then here again is notable errour and Anabaptistry And now then what outward baptisme have they remaining to themselves Ans. Neither doth Solomon say the abuse of the wickeds sacrifice is an abomination and except the sacrifice as holy but he sayth expresly The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord Prov. 15. 8. He was answered before to his two baptismes outward and inward that the Apostle and elsewhere himselfe maketh but one baptisme Eph. 4. 5. And the outward part thereof we reteyne as now sanctified to us of God as the outward cutting of the idolatrous Israelites was to them that repented 2. Chron. 30. Ezr. 6. 21. which again he putteth off till afterwards 4. Note also that the brazen Serpent was not in deed an idol but an holy ordinance of God which in time came to be idolatrously abused c. Ans. He sayth all things but proves nothing It was in deed an idol and an holy ordinance idolatrously abused also These things stand well together The Sun was in deed an idoll to them that worshiped it and yet it was
a good creature of God also idolatrously abused The bread in the sacrament is in deed an idoll to Papists that worship it as their maker yet is it also in it selfe Gods ordinance idolatrously abused so is popish baptisme Hee might even as wel say that Reubens fact in lying with his fathers concubine was not in deed adultery but an abuse of Gods ordinance of mariage or a defiling of his fathers bed Gen. 35. 22. 49. 4. 5. Moreover the brazen Serpent was but a temporary ordinance c. Ans. This was the twelft of his shifts before now hee repeateth and multiplieth it among his Errours I refer the reader to my former answer 6 That the Romish baptisme is an impure idol in their abuse standing up in the place of Christ and his precious blood which it is not pretending to give grace c. which it doth not But the baptisme in the church of Rome is Gods ordinance had and planted there by the Apostles c. These are the errours and abuses of men about it not the nature of the baptisme it selfe Otherweise all that have received it ought to renounce it utterly and to get an other outward baptisme c. Answ. This also was before objected and answered and it is a world to see how he wearieth his reader with repeating worthlesse reasons Sacrificing among the heathens I have before proved was Gods ordinance So was the Lords supper in the church of Rome in the Apostles time so was excommunication so was the Ministery of Bishops c. These have been continued in Rome with their baptisme may we not say therefore the Masse is an idoll or that the Bishop the Pope of Rome now is an idol and Antichrist Of our getting an other baptisme which is the usuall foot and base of his arguments we have before spoken that which he could not take away Obj. Wil these men say that we can without sin reteine any thing and not utterly reject it that standeth up in the place of Christs precious blood c. Ans. We cannot indeed without syn reteyne it while so it standeth neither doe we so reteyn it far be it from us Neither might the Gentiles reteyn the lye which they had made of the truth of God Rom. 1. 25. But when the lye was doen away and God restored to them his former trueth that they were to reteyn The idolatrous Israelites if they had set up their own blood of circumcision in place of Christs blood might not without syn have reteyned it whiles so it stood Yet repenting of their idolatry they might keep the outward signe without repeating it even so we in this case Obj. Errors and abuses of men may hurt themselves but cannot change the nature of Gods ordinance in it selfe Answ. Not in it selfe I grant considered without their abuse but togither with their abuse Gods ordinance of sacrifice incense c. is an abomination to him Prov. 15. 8. Esa. 1. 13. So baptisme and the Supper now in Rom are abominations to the Lord. Obj. Mans unbeleefe cannot make the faith of God of none effect God is true though every man be a lyar Rom. 3. 3. 4. Ans. What may we think would he conclude from this Scripture To cite a place and leave it doubtfull what hee inferreth is to deceive the reader If he intend according to the question in hand that the sacraments are seales of grace and of salvation unto men whether they beleeve or doe not beleeve it is a notable errour overthrowing the Gospel and establishing the popish herefie of grace ex opere operato by the work doen. The Scriptures teach touching Gods vvord and promise that it profiteth not them that heare it if it be not mixed vvith faith in them Heb. 4. 2. if men beleeve not they shall not be established Esai 7. 9. but shall be damned Mark 16. 16. they shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on them Ioh. 3. 36. Neither is the faith of God by mens unbeleef made without effect For his truth and faithfulnesse is confirmed as well in damning unrepentant unbeleeving synners as in saving those that repent and beleeve When the righteous turneth from his righteousnes and committeth iniquitie he shall dye in his iniquity and yet the way of the Lord is equall as sayth the prophet Ezek. 18. 24. 25. 26. Again as all men naturally are lyars and doe faile and break covenant on their part by syn which God never doeth so if they continue in syn and turne not to the Lord by repentance and faith they all perish Luk. 13. 3. 5. Rom. 8. 6. 10. 1. Cor. 6. 9. 10. Jude v. 5. But let men repent and turn from their transgressions so iniquity shall not be their ruine Ezek. 18. 30. Otherweise it would follow that after men are entred into covenant with God are baptized though they fall frō Christ to Antichrist as the church of Rome hath doen though they fall to Mahomet as many East churches have doen though they turne to be Iewes or pagans and so dye yet they shall be saved for their unbeleef cannot make the faith of God of none effect But so to expound this Scripture Rom. 3. were to turn judgement into wormwood unto the destruction of mens soules And if mine opposite would not gather some such thing from it what will it help his plea for the baptisme of the church of Rome which is the whore of Babylon whom God hath devoted unto destruction except they repent Rev. 17. 18. chap. Obj. The Jewes in Christs time and before holding justification by circumcision workes of the Law set these up in the place of Christ his precious blood c. Should we therfore say that circumcision was then an impure idoll in their abuse c. Or should wee not rather learn to put difference between Gods ordinance in it selfe and between mans abuse thereof c. Ans. Whensoever Iew or Gentile held justification by circumcision sacrifice or works of the Law they made their sacraments sacrifices and workes idols impure idols to themselves in their abuse And it is admirable that men teaching religion should bee ignorant that whatsoever creature or work of man is put in the place of God and Christ it is therby made an idol though Gods ordinances and the workes of his Law in themselves are alwayes good but turned to idols are alwayes evill and an abomination to the Lord as is before proved What mouth can deny but the Papists are idolaters in praying to Saints and Angels If idolaters then they serve idols if they serve idols in so praying then the Saincts and Angels are idols to them in their synfull abuse Yet who knoweth not that the Saincts and Angels in heaven are blessed and holy and not Idols in themselves But this is mine opposites continual fallacie wherby he would deceive his reader that because Baptisme and the Lords supper are Gods holy ordinances in themselves therfore