for monye was geuen in such plentie that yeare as a great man of Germanie saide that he thought that more almes was geuen in ready mony in Rome then in al the prouinces of his countrie Laste of al I wil ad one thing in testimonie of the Romanes pietie deuotion The order of the Romans in taking voâ—untaâ—ie discipâ—ine for thâ—ir offences in the holy weeke which many in EnglaÌ„d wil rather laugh at theÌ„ imitate which is that vppoÌ„ maundie thursday before easter they vse to goe to S. Péeters church late in the night whipping theÌ„ selues vntill the blood streame froÌ„ their bodies They goe their faces al couered except only ij holes to looke out vpon their bodies they haue only a shirte of sakâ—cloth cutt soe behinde that their shoulders appéere naked where with whipcorde they beate theÌ„ selues for more then the space of one hower together They goe commonly aboue 600 in a companye The Societies of the Trinitie S. Marcellus and of the Confalons are chéefest in this matter And they are eche of them a hundred commonly euery yeare Nowe the beaters goe in order two and two and betwene euery two beaters goe two other with torches To sée only this spectacle were a matter to moue anye man whatsoeuer Besides these Societies many privat men do punish them selues very gréeuously in this holye weeke for their offences past Who couering their faces in suche sorte as they maye not be knowen they goe to all the churches of the cittie or the moste parte beatinge them selues pittifullye vntill the bloode doe runne from them in great quantitie All which maye suffice for an aunswere to Ihon Nicols touchinge this seconde parte Spilling of Controuersies IN THIS third parte The third part I must for two causes be very short The one for that more hath bene spoken in the seconde parte before vppon vrgent occations of Nicols his slaunders theÌ„ was meant at the first vnto the whole booke The other is for that to dispute with Ihon Nicols in Controuersies that is with a grammarian in groundes of deuinitie is as lost laboure as to argue with Pedlers in pointes of Poetrie or with a Colliar in cunning of Chiualrie He vnderstandeth not the state of that which is in question nor conceaueth the meaning of ether parte aright The authors which he citeth he neuer read but tooke them vp at second hand in Englishe bookes where he fell vppon them namely in those of Hanmer of Philip of Mornay whence often he boroweth whole pages together Héerof it commeth that his allegations doe passe from him muche mangled and peruerted with euideÌ„t testimonie of the maÌ„s insufficiencie Ihon Nicols insufficience For some times he mistaketh his authore some times he nameth him not at all often he alleagethe some â—t randome without citing any booke or place other times he coteth but with error And yet soe litle sâ—kil as hee hathe hee knowethe to falsifye a place for his purpose or to corrupt it by translation if that wil not serue yet to fil vp the page with stuffe impertinente or against him selfe For which cause I haue named his doâ—inges in this parte Spilling of Controuersies The matters offered at by Nicols in his booke are diuers as of the Church of miracles and reuelations of Images of Purgatorie of Prayer for dead of prayer to Saintes of good woorkes of the Sacrament of the aulter of the Supremacie and of the Pope But all is done according to their fashion without order or methode beginning or ending by iumping in only vpon certaine quillotes of controuersies and by sâ—karring at thâ—m with certaine broken shaftes of othâ—r meÌ„s quiuers shiuered in péeces long a goe and beaten backe vppon his coÌ„pagnâ—ons But the grouÌ„des of thes matters are nether touched nor conceaued by him much lesse the pith of any one point discussed as shall appeare in parte by this bréefe aunâ—ere albeit I can not stande to dâ—sclose the whole Towching the church Of the Church Ihon Nicols letting passe al declaration of the state of the question other groondes of more intelligence is content only according to his sckil to obiect against certaine markes of the Church set downe by Catholiques to distinguish the true CoÌ„gregation church of Christ from al Congregations in the world For better vnderstaÌ„ding wherof of this whole Controuersie most nâ—edful of all other to be rightly vnderstood I think it not amisse in most bréefe maÌ„ner to lay forth some few grouÌ„des of the same Not so much for the aunswering of Ihon Nicols obiectioÌ„s which are of no importance as for the better coÌ„ceauing of whatsoeur is in question betwéen vs our aduersaries in this matter of the Church What the Churche is First therfore we doe al agrée Math. 16. Acte 5. RoÌ„ 16. 1. Cor. 6. Act. 20. Eph. 3. 2. Tim. 2. 1. Tim. 3. Math. 13. Exod. 19. Cant. 1. 4. that the true holy church of Christ is a CoÌ„gregation of ChristiaÌ„s professing his faith dedicated to his seruice so highly respected by him as being boughte with his blood linked by the bonde of his eternal â—oue is become his owne house his kingdome his peculier possession his darling â—is spowse and his owne bodye To To which Church of his 1. Cor. 11. Ephe. 5. Ephe. 1. 1. Cor. 12. No saluation out of the Churche Aug. Ep. 50 1â—2â— li. de vnitâ— eccle cap. 4. 16. li. 4 de sim. cap 10. CypriaÌ„ li. 1. ep 1. li. 4. ep 2. trac de simpli prel Iren. li. 4. coÌ„ here cap. 13. Chris. hoâ—â—1 in ep ad eph Fâ—lgeÌ„t li de fide ca. 37. 38â— 39. PaciaÌ„ ep 2. ad â—â—m Gregâ— li. â—4 cap. 2. â—or Aâ—eâ—â— 204 â—â— psa 82â— ser. 181. de â—eÌ„ all his promises are meante all his giftes geuen all his blessinges directed al his graces powred out all his loue assured Sâ—condly we also agree that séeinge this is soe that is seeing this congregation is the only howse of God no man can looke for wages at Godes handes as his seruant eâ—cepte he be one of this houshould or familie And seeinge this Churche is the onlye spowse of Christe no man maye haue him for his father whoe hathe not this Church for his mother And seeinge this Churche is Christes owne bodye wheroâ— himselfe is heade no man can be a member of Christ or receaue anye influence of grace or lyfe from him except he be a member of this Church Wherof hath folowed that common sentence of holyâ— Fathers against heretiques and â—chismatiques oâ— ther times â—hat out of the Church is noe saluation That is doe a man what he can out of the vnitie of this Congregation yea although it wer to suffer death for Godes cause yet cannot â—e escape damnation Thirdly Catholiques doe deduce of these premises that seâ—ing this Churche or Congregation is soe necessarie to be knowen and repayred to of all men
in preaching to their flockes or expounding the Cathechisme euery sonnday and holy daye according to the councel of Trent Ses. 24. ca. we shal finde it very vnlikely that Italian priestes could not aunswer Iohn Nicols whether God the father the holye Ghost haue bodies or noe If there were any such matter talked of as I dout very much yet the error might easâ—ly be coÌ„mitted A probable gesâ—e of Nicols false reporte ether by them in not vnderstanding Ihon Nicols Italian or by him in not perceauing their answer For they mistaking his eydle demande which no man but his like wold haue made might answere him to a nother question of some discretion saying that God the father and the holy Ghost beinge without bodies might nothwithstanding be represeÌ„ted vnto vs in bodies as God the father was represeÌ„ted to Daniel Dan. 7. Math. 3. in the shape of an ould man and the holy Ghost to Ihon Baptist in forme of a doue that the Church lawfully vseth the same now This I saye they might perhaps answer But for the other question wherof no childe in Italie is ignorante it was as impossible for Italian priestes to answer soe grosly as it was easie for Iohn Nicols simplicitie to aske it and for his malice to reporte it nowe in printe The second thing which Nicols obiecteth against Italian priestes and especially them of Rome is dishonestie in life which he proueth not but only by his accustomed waye of interrogation And first of Monkes Ihon Nicols â—launder of monkes aunswered Was there not saith he at Rome a whole monasterie of suche as beare a siluer crosse in their handes and are appareled in blew full of women that went in habit of thes monkes and were they not espyed at the last and escaped vnpunished To which I aunswer there was noe suche thing and all Rome will beare me witnes of the same as also manye English men which all Nicols time were there and neuer heard mention of anie such enormitie And it appeareth by that which he addeth Of their vnpunishment after they were knowen That all is his owne inuention for filling vp his booke and flattering his exhibitors For that such matters once knowen escape not vnpunished in Rome Seuere iustice vppon a fryar apeareth well by the iustice done vppon a Spanish fryer in his time for a lesse matter then he reporteth albeit in the same kinde that is he was publiquely hanged at the bridge of S. Angelo for running out of Spaine with an other mans wise which facte of his was the onlye great offence heard of in Rome by any of his profession these manie yeres Noe lesse impious is Nicols seconde slaunder againste all priestes of Rome where he saythe Nicols slaunder of Priesteâ— refuted That they goe without punishment openlye to the stewes and that he hath seene them with his eyes embracing the queanes Which is soe false a slaunder as hath greatly to feare the saying of Scripture which is Pro. 21. That a lying witnes shall haue an euell ende For it is soe salse that suche thinges are practized or permitted publiquely in Rome as the halfe of that whiche he reporteth is sufficiente to depose any priest from his liuing in that place and to suspende him from his function and besides to procure him selfe halfe a dosen stretches of the Strappado The strppadoâ— which is greater punishment then al cleargie men in England would willinglye admitt for suche offences Wherfore his exclamation is ridiculus where he saythe Oh if a minister heerin England should commit suche abhoemination and scape vnpunished howe would you crye out cet This I saye is ridiculus For what their ministers doe commit in this kinde of sinne notwithstandinge their owne wiues wée heare and other men sée and the worlde abroade can witnes and howe seuerlye they are punished some late exampels haue declared And yet we crye not out excepte to God alone nor endeuour we to proclaime al in printe if we would as perhappes we maye héerafter beinge thus prouoked yet haue we truthe sufficient to put downe néede not damne our selues by lyeing as Nicols séemeth resolued to doe I doe not defend all priestes in Rome for Saintes as you will not I think al your ministers our reformers But this I saye to the confuâ—ion of your malice which al indifferent men that know the place wil testifie with me that as lytle outward scandal is geuen in Rome as in any one place of the worlde besides To which I will add without detraction froÌ„ anye place that I haue founde more inwarde honestie learning zeale religion deuotion in seculer priestes of Rome then in any place else of Christendome He that will make profe of this lett him frequent the florentine congregatioÌ„ of seculer priestes The excercises of Seculer Priestes in Rome at S. Ieroms church by the English Colledge or at their new churche named Puzzo Bianco Also lett him repaire to the Rosarie CongregatioÌ„ at our Ladyes church Supra Mineruam and he shall heare euery festiual day such spiritual excercises in those places that is such lerned discorses on spiritual maters suche exhortations to vertue such detestations of vice such déepe considerations of our ende and thinges belonging to our ende of our accounte after death of casualties in this life and of our dewties in euery mans present estate as is able to moue anye hard or stonnye hart And all these excercises are done by the seculer priestes of Rome with greate payne much studdye and no small charges and yet all this is voluntarie and not by anye compulsion The effects of spirituall congregations in Rome By meanes of these learned and zelous excercises much good is done in Rome vpon diuers persons which come to heare them being of all sortes many both temporal and spiritual and amoÌ„gst other dyuers wilde yong gentlemen resorting thither of curiositie to heare are often times so pearsed by speaches vttered in those exercises as they presently chaunge the order of their lyfe become most vertuous and sober the rest of their dayes Soundrie great mutations of life are wrought also in greater personages by helpe of the sayed exercises which would neuer be if the Romane priestes whoe are doers in the same were such wicked lyuers as Iohn Nicolls affirmeth Of the English students in Rome Iohn Nicolls slaunder of the students refuted Iohn Nicols to omit no part of a perfect Sicophant picketh occasion of quarrels and detraction to his owne felow-students of the Romane Colledge whoe neuer offeÌ„ded him but rather from whoÌ„ he hath receaued great loue and curtesie And because he had no fact to charg them withal he inuented a very odious matter which was malitious words against her Maiestie and diuers of her honorable counsayle also against some other chéefe men in ecclesiasticall causes The effecte of which wordes were that they threatned forsoothe the forsaide great parsonages if
fingers toes and eares are not bodies or deuisions of one bodye but partes and ornamentes of the same because they receaue all life norishment spirite from one soule soe diuers orders of religious men and women not differing in faithe but in manner of life in the Catholique Church are partes and ornameÌ„tes of the same church according to the propheci of her before made The Queen stood at thy right hand in golden apparel Psal. 45. enuironed with varieties These varieties are the varieties of states degrées professions orders in the Catholique Church which al agréeing in one fountaine of faith and taking norishment life and spirite from that vnitie of faithe as diuers members from one soule do not impaire but bewtifie the vnitie of that body which is the Catholique church and therfore are not to be called sectes as the Lutherans Caluinistes and Puritanes are which differ in matter of beléefe and doctrine For all that hath béene saide therfore or euer can be heerafter I doe not sée why our â—aith and Church is not proued true and â—ur aduersaries false by thes fower markes of Catholicke antiquitie succession and vnitie And if we once gaine this we néede noe longer to dispute of contrâ—uersies Hauinge ended this firste and chéefest matter of the true and false Church I must confesse vnto the reader that I am vnwyllinge to wade anye further with Iohn Nicolls in contention about particuler controuersies Cauâ—es whyeâ— Nicolls is noe further answered in particuler controuersies Frste for that all the reste which he hath is oulde broken ware patchte vppe with péeces of soondrye bookes ether aunswered or reiected longe agoe which notwithstandinge is made woorse by his vnorderlye insertinge of it héere without iuste occation and especiallye by his adioynders vnto it of vnséemelye raylinge As after he hath vttered the obiections before mentioned agaynst the true marks of the Church he followethe with full mouth for dyuers leaues togeather agaynst Rome alleaginge Mantuan the Poâ—t and Budeus with Barnarde of Cluniâ—â— without citinge anye place to proue that Rome had vices in it wherefore he conâ—â—udethe and exhorteâ—he his breâ—hren the preistes and other prisoners in the tower to leaue Rome and cleaue to Englande séeinge the Church of England had not soe many hereticks and churchrobbers in it as the Romane Church hath Secondly he rouethe soe wyde from the point of ech matter that he handleth as he séemeth to be ignorante both what we and his owne fellowes holde For aboute miracles and reuelations he laboureth much to proue that false miracles and reuelations are not to be credited which we graunt vnto him without proofe And touchinge Purgatorie and prayer for the dead and inuocation of Saintes he affirmeth them to be late inuentions of Popes and papists wheras his owne companions In his booke against Pâ—rgatorie Pag. 306. 115.316.320 and against articles pag. 39. namly Fulke in his late answers to Doctor Allen and Doctor Bristoe confesseth that all those thrée erroures weare receaued iâ— the Church aboue 1200. yeares paste that is in the times of Augustine Ierome Ambrose and vppwarde and that those Fathers with other beléeued them also In oppugninge Images he bringeth a great heape of quotatioÌ„s against idols thinketh that sufficieÌ„t Against the Pope he disputeth not but raileth coÌ„ncludeth in the end with an impudent lye out of Phillip of Mornay saying That the Pope hath caused men to dispute that he is not simply a man but a partaker of the diuine nature with Christ. A malitious lye againste the Pope Sée the shamelesse foreheade I praye you of men blinded with malice The very wordes of the decretall alleaged are these talking of seperating of a Bishoppe from a certaine Bishoppricke which he held vnlawfully Not man but God doth seperate whom the Bishop of Rome vicegerent in earth Prope InnoceÌ„tius de transl cap. quanto not simply of a maÌ„ but of him which is also true God doth seperate rather by Godes authoritie then mans vppon consideration ether of the necessitie or vtilitie of Churches Thyrdly he hath a propertie ether of ignorance or malice to tyre his answerer by cyting of things which are not to be found albeit they be such for the most parte as we would graunt without citing As for example he alleageth S. Austen li. 2. ca. 20. de consens euang against séeking of Christ in paynted walles but noe such thinge is founde there nor yet occasion of anye lyke matter He alleageth S. Chrisostome hom 30. in Math. repeting the Pharisées words to Christ which albeit it toucheth not the matter yet noe such thinge is to be séene there He citeth William Nubridge li. 2. ca. 15. 25. for S. Thomas of Canterburie his wordes to the Bishoppe of Menze against Rome A newe kindâ— of alleagingâ— doctouâ—s but noe such matter appeareth in that place nor any mention of the Bishop of menze He citeth Allen Cope dial 1. pag. 18. for false miracles before Images in our Churches but read the place and you shal sée there noe lyke argument handled He alleageth S. Basil mistrusting his owne workes in psa 32. which although it be not against vs yet must I note that noe such thinge is there to be séene I could geue dyuers other examples but this is sufficient to which do you add that he nameth almost twentie authores without citinge any place and many things without naming any author As for example where he vrgeth his fellow prisoners the priestes that came from Rome with this greate authoritie in latine and after englished One sayethe that whiles the Romishe preistes endeuour as much as they can to preach thinges in shewe agreeable to health of soules then teach they noe few things tending to perpetuall distruction of soules This one that sayeth this is ether Iohn Nicols onely or els some other of lesse credite then himselfe if it be possible to finde a creature of lesse credite And was not this a forcible texte trow you to be recited in latine out of the pulpet and to be translated in english and to be vrged in that audieÌ„ce for the stirring of hatred againste those learned and vertuous priestes Fowrthly it is a world to sée what his demeanour is in the places rightlye alleaged Nicols conclusioâ—s for first of nothing he wil inferr any thing and commonly his consequeÌ„t hath noe coherence or affinitie with his antecedeÌ„t I haue geuen some examples before as because Iobe sayeth that olde men vnderstand not alwayes iudgemeÌ„t therefore antiquitie is no good marke of the true Church Because Christ sayed to his desciples little flocke therefore the lesser congregations amongeste Christians haue alwaies the better fayth in religion I coulde shew you hundredes of these illations through out his booke Secondly if his wit serue him not to draw some false consequente from the place then audacitie supplieth to corrupt it by translation whereof besides that which hath bene
A Discouerie of I. Nicols minister misreported a Iesuite latelye recanted in the Tower of London Wherin besides the declaration of the man is conâ—ayned a ful answere to his recantation with a conâ—utation of his slaunders and proofe of the contraries in the Pope Cardinals Clergie Studentes and priuate men of Rome There is also added a reproofe of an oration and sermon falsely pretended by the sayd Nicols to be made in Rome and presented to the Pope in his Consistorye Wherto is annexed a late information from Rome touchâ—ng the auteÌ„tical copie of Nicols recantation IHS God hathe exalted him and geuen him a name whiche is aboue all names Philippens 2.ver.9 There is no other name vnder heauen geuen vnto men wherin we must be saued Act. 4 ver 12 A lyeing witnes shall haue an yuel ende Pro. 21. An non ex hac odiosa impudentia pullulabit mox impoenitentia mater desperationis Bern. Ser. 42. in Can. 1 A preface shewing different proceeding in â—atholicks and their aduersaries with a diuision of the booke into three partes 2 The firste parte contayneth a narration of Iohn Nicolls with a refutation of certayne vayne and false vauntes made of him selfe 3 The seconde parte contayneth a confutation of many malitious slaunders vttered by Nicolls againste Catboliques but especiallie and more in particuler against the Pope the Cardinals priestes and religious men the English studentes in Rome diuers particuler persons and againste the cittye of Rome it selfe where also the contraries to Nicols reportes are declared 4 The third parte contayneth an explication and defence of certayne controuersies misunderstood and absurdly peruerted by Nicols 5 Nicols oration sermon published in english since the writing of this booke pretended by him as made in Rome presented to the Pope are conuinced of forgery by manifest absurdities impossibilities and contradictions 6 Also there is added a late information from Rome of the true copie of Nicols recantation in that place 7 Lastly there is put downe an example 〈◊〉 a tast of Nicols talent in rayling at both sides TO the indifferente Reader IT IS one poynte among other oâ— very bare brokers to extol immoderatly very base wares And it is not the guise but of needye distressed warryers The aduersaries pouertie to receaue wiâ—h troÌ„pet to place of dignitie euerie ragged and wandering fugitiue Which two thinges notwithstanding with no smal discredite of their owne cause some aduersaries of ours haue followed of late in soe greedye receauing and aduauncinge to the pulpet with measureles commendation one Iohn Nicoles farre vnfitte in mine opinion for soe great a doe beinge but a reiected thing of the contrarie parte a séelie grammarian and twise reuolted minister Whose recantation or rayling rather inuectiue published not long since from the Tower of London In februarie Ano. 1581. I coulde more willinglye haue pittied then aunswered knowing the mans féeblenes as I doe but only for that he surchargeth with slaunder soe manie other men yea Princes and states in that his declamation as it was harde for me whiche before god in my conscienes knewe all or moste of it to be forged to hould my peace in soe manyfest vntruthes and by silence to yelde credite to the manye malytious and reprocheâ—ul reportes The dealing also of our aduersaries in this case and she like moued me not a little to answere whoe shame not to proclaime triumphes vpon soe base conquestes against their mother the Catholique Church whoe hath borne them and brought them vp and whoe if she would but a litle folow the same course Different dealing in Catholiques their aduersaries not in falshed and malice as they doe but in euident truthe ether by noting the knowen vices of her enemies which rather she soroweth and hartely be wayleth or in vaunting the gaine of suche as daylye by goddes gâ—ace returne againe from rebellion she might easely in bothe these things matche and ouermatche the lauishe toÌ„gues of her reuoulted children were she not restrained by charytie in the one and by grauitie in the other For touching the first who doth not knowe that if in lewe of this and the like tâ—â— notable infamous aâ—tes of ministers preachers onlye in this one Realme of Englande for the space of one doson years past Looke the crowne offâ—â—â— and other lyke recordes wâ—re gaâ—hered into some one booke â—or the vewe of the worlde they would be more in quantitie and in qualitie more haynous then al that they haue gathered by great laboure muche falshod in their seueral bookes out of the liues of the worste Catholiques for these thowsand yeres past ouer all the whole worlde And yet these men â—orâ—oothe came as prophetes to reâ—orme vs and our fâ—thers liues and therâ—ore in reason should haue liued more exactly them selues And touching the second who dothe not sée the great varietie of important learned personages which from time to time vppon trial of the truthe doe retournâ— vnto vs euen from their ministerie and they also of other qualitie and talente then séelye Iohn Nicols whoe in good soothe is not worthe the taking vp being sounde in the stréete and yet we vaunt not of eache thing in printe nor sturre we tragedies vpon litle trifles We are contente to leaue this to our aduersaries whose fraude or feruor is to make mountaines of molehilles and greate speache vppon small matter If any man wil doubt whâ—ther such returne of Protestantes be made vnto vs or noe as I noted before passing ouer other places let him cast his eye but vpon these Seminaries and Colleges on this side the seas where English studentes are and he shal finde a great and principal part therof to haue bene in times past not onely of there religion but also towardes there ministerie Ministrye to Preisthode whoe on the contrary can not shew me any one Préest in these later yeres perverted by them I add in these later yeres for that albeit in the beginning of heresie when first the banner of sedition was raysed agaynst the Church great multitudes of people reuolted together as in al commotions is wonte to happe by some generall faâ—se suggâ—stion of the principal rebels Cause of former reuolting and present reâ—urninge yet afterward the heate being past and more calmer consideration coming in place men haue staied them selues and harkened to the cause and diuers also returned which in the first furie ranne out with the rest of which two sortes both the one and the other remayne better fortified for resisting of lyke error for the time to come The meanes which haue bene vsed generally to preistes taken these later yeres for I wil conceale tower matters in particuler for the withdrawing of them in religion haue bene many and strong and qualified in both extremities of rigor and alluremeÌ„t promises and minaces and yet so great is God his goodnes no one I say not any one hath vnto this day faultered But of ministers
be the things neuer so honest or lawful of them selues this man draweth all to a corrupt meaning as you see Of the permision oâ— the stewes But héere before I passe any furder I must say a word or two touching the stewes in Rome the permission wherof by the Pope by other Catholike Princes in their couÌ„tries is accounted so heinous a matter by our aduersaries as it may not be answered but that we therby alow of vnchast life Which is a most false wrongfull charge as may apéere by that which foloweth First the Pope with al Catholiques that euer wrot condemneth detesteth the acte of simple fornication as a deadly sine daÌ„nable to the doers without repeÌ„tance And our aduersaries shall neuer be able to charge truly our Catholique doctrine wth the coÌ„trarie Secondly notwithstaÌ„ding this detestation the ciuil magistrat may for the auoiding of a worse incoÌ„ueniâ—nce tollerat or permit this sinn in some degrée without fault Tolleratinge of stewes noe alowinge of them without any alowing of the sinne it selfe As God doth tollerat with wicked men and with many wicked actes in the world which he detesteth might notwithstaÌ„ding let theÌ„ if he would yet he dothe not alowe of theÌ„ for that he permitteth them Thirdly that a naughty wicked thing may somtimes be necessary consequently tollerated without fault the corruption and lewd inclinatioÌ„ of men supposed It apereth plainly by S. Paul who saith 1. Cor. 11. Math. 18. that heresies of necessitie must be by Christ who affirmeth that scandals must néedes come yet nether Christ alowed of scandals nor S. Paul of heresies Fowerthly I might aske why the protestants in England doe permit vsery by their lawes that is doth not punish men for taking vnder ten of the hundreth They must néedes aunswere that they allowe not of the sinne but that they doe it for the auoiding of a greater inconuenience which is leste by punishing all vsurie as the Catholique Church dothe no man would lende any monye at all The causes why the stewes is permitted Soe then the Pope and other Christian Princes for the auoidinge of a greater inconuenience séeing the corruption of some men wil alwayes be such as beinge restrained of this would breake to worse matters and hauing learned by longe experience as S. Austen affirmed also of his time that if this publique sink should be taken away the infection wold rushe into priuate howses as in parte I thinke may be noted in our own couÌ„trie if we compare the chastitie of our fathers dayes when such a place was permitted with the times which haue followed since the taking away therof considering also that the tolleratinge with this publique sinke is no wayes any allowance of the sinne for these causes I say Christian Maiestrates haue alwaies permitted this publique scandal protesting to their subiectes by the words of S. Ierome which he vseth in a like matter vppon Christes wordes Li. 3. comment in math 18. It is of necessitie that scandals should come but yet woe to that man which by his faulte maketh that to be which otherwise in the world must needes be That is to say of necessitie there must for causes a stewes be permited but yet woe vnto him whiche haunteh the stewes or vseth this permission Soe that the thing is permitted of necessitie in general but no mans going thither alowed in particuler Wherof it commeth that there is no prince in the world which doth or can vse more meanes then the Pope dothe Meanes vsed by the Pope for withdrawing lewde women from their naughty lyfe to draw al men from that vice to reforme thos miserable women theÌ„selues which liue in that kind of life in his dominions For first they are shut vp in one stréete with a note of infamie not only to them selues but to all those who repaire vnto them Secâ—ndly they are debarred of all spiritual coÌ„solation for they remaine vnable to receaue any sacrameÌ„t as long as they abide in that trade of life Thirdly they are depriued of al credit or countenaÌ„ce in the world abrode so that if any of theÌ„ shold be found in a Coche both horses Coche are ipso facto forfeited Fowerthly they make no testameÌ„t except they haue lawful childreÌ„ but al their goodes must goe to the conuertites Conuertites that is to thos which are conuerted from that kinde of abhominable life Fiftly the Pope causeth euery wéeke some religious men to repaire to that place ther in the middest of the stréete to prech hell daÌ„nation vnto them for their wickednes And lastly he hath prouided a goodly monastery for all theÌ„ which wil leaue that state to enter into ther to be maintained whiles they liue with a very competent sufficient prouision of an honest vertuous life By which meanes diuers are recalled daily from their wickednes Which thinges being so let the indiffereÌ„t reader iudge how vniustly the Pope is charged with alowing of ther lewd behauiour as God whoe is not partial will one daye declare Thus hauing answerd IhoÌ„ Nicols vntrue slanderous reportes of the citie of Rome it shal not be amisse according to my promise to bestow soÌ„e few words in declaring the pietie of this cittie which euery man that hath séene it is not blinded with partialitie wil easily confesse to be greater then in any place of the world besides And first in talking of the chéefe head head the Pope himselfe of the Cardnals I haue shewed how for matters of learning it doth excel hauing in it The multitud of studentes Seminaries colledges of al nations tongues also two distinct Uniuersities as I may terme theÌ„ for besides the scholes of Sapientia wher 30. sundery learned men doe reade the Iesuites schooles haue aboue 1200. shollers which frequent theÌ„ besides the studentes of lawe in the colledge of Capronica Capronica besids the great howses of religion wher also are learned readers haue often publike excercises of disputation one with another to the great commoditye of all studentes in that place After this in my spéech of the priestes clergie of Rome Congregations in Rome I shewed what coÌ„gregatioÌ„s confereÌ„ces they haue in spiritual matters to the great instruction edification of all strauÌ„gers that repaire thither In which kinde of pietie I touched but the leste part for besides thos congregations that I named ther ar diuers others wher as the nuÌ„ber of Societies or CoÌ„pagnies of seculer men in Rome 80. Societies in Rome amouÌ„t to aboue 80. theris neuer â— CoÌ„pagnie which maintaineth not a church or a chappel with some nomber of priestes with whom sundery times of the wekâ— they haue coÌ„ference in spirituall matters Now then to passe ouer to the déedes of pietie which are corporal and which appertaine more in particuler to the Citizens them selues I must say generally that
The true Churche is visible as hath bene saide that is that no man can be saued excepte he repaire vnto hâ—â— enter into her heare her obeye her and the like Cyp. li. de simpli Ire ep 1. ad DaÌ„ Aug. li. 4. de bapâ— ca. 1. they doe deduce I saye by infallible consequence that this Church or Congregation must be visible to mans eyes Otherwise howe shall we repayre vnto her whom we cannot sée how can we complaine vnto her Math. 18. as Scripture biddeth vs whye shall we be damneâ—â—or disobeying her as Christ threatneth vs 1. Cor. 15. How shall we receaue the Sacramentes and true interâ—retation of Scripture from her if she be inuisible Act. 20. Howe dyd S. Paul persecute the true Churche of Christ Aug in psa 30. 47. 44. li 2. â—oÌ„ Pet. cap. 32. tract 1. 2. in ep ad Io. Orig. ho. 30 in mathâ— Chris. ho 4 in caâ— 6. Esa. How doth he say that God hath put Bishops and Pastors tâ— gouerne it if it be inuisible The holye Fathers of the primatiue Churche haue laboured much in this pointe against heretiques whoe alwayes had this shifte to say that the true Church was inuisible and therfore their obscure and new vpstarte congregations might be it Wherof S. Austen writeth at large against the Donatistesâ— But the saide Fathers ouerthrew this refuge of hereticks by many places of scripture As where the Church is promised to be a hil vpon the toppe of all other hilles Esa. 2. Deu. 2. Mich. 4. Psal. 18. Math 5. 1. Tim. 3. Math. 18. Gen. 22. Aug. tract 19. in epist. Ioan. Ier. in haec oÌ„nia loca a tabernacle of God placed in the soone a citie inobscurable builte vpon a mountayne a piller of trueth erected for all men to repayre vnto and a benediction for al nations to participate of as wel Iewe and Gentile as others By which and like places of scripture the holy Fathers do proue that the true Church of Christ is not inuisible but soe visible and subiect to al mens sightes as al may know her repayre vnto her enter into her heare her obay her and follow her that will excepte heretickes only as S. Austen sayeth Aug. li. de vnit cont Peâ—il ca. 14. in Psal. 32. Whoe doe blind them selues and will not see soe greate a hill and if they do see her yet they runne from her according to the spalme They saw me and yet ranne out from me Fowrthly the Catholicks doe deduce of the premisses that The true visible Church cannot erre if this trew visible Church of Christ haue soe greate priuiledges from him as to be his spouse and his owne body as is sayed before also if no man can be saued but by repayringe to her and obaying her direction then is it necessarie that Christ shoulde according to his promise soe gouerne her by his holy spirite Au in Psal. 147. de vnit eccle ca. 13 20. Math. 28. and directe her vnto the end by continuall assistance as she may neuer be deceaued in doctrine of faith or bring her childreÌ„ into errour For otherwise she mighte become of the spouse of Christ a strompâ—t and an aposâ—ata as the Donatistes sayed she was in their time and as Luther sayed she was in his time S. AusteÌ„ detesteth all suâ—h as say soe Conc. 2. in Psal. 101. 1. Tim. 3. and soe Christ his Kingdome should perish and the worke of his passion become frustrate also otherwise whye is she called by the Apostle a piller of trueth for vs to repayre vnto in all doubtes and why are al men commaunded vnder payne of damnation to heare and obey her Math. 18. if she may erre and deceaue those that take directioÌ„ from her Leo ep 31. Math. 3. â—3 Moreouer if this visible Church might erre and soe perishe how then shall the barne floore contayninge corne and chaffe The corne â—â—â—de Ephe. 4. Aug. li 22. de ciui ca. 15. 18. contayninge wheat and cockle vnderstoode literallye of this visible Church remayne vnto yâ— end of the world as Christ affermeth that they shaâ—l How doth S. Paul say tâ—at this visible Church shal coÌ„tinâ—w vnder visible pastours and teachers vntill we méete all in vnitie of faith c. Finally reade S. Austen only of this absurditie That Church saithe he which was the Church of all Nations Aug. in â—saâ— 101. coÌ„cio 2. vide Chris. ho. 4. inca 6 Esa. â— Orig ho. 3. in mat is she not now Is she perished they saye soe that are not in her O impudent speech is she not because thou arte not in her nay see least thou be not in her for saying so For she shall be though thou be not Fifthly Catholiques doe deduce out of the premisses that séeing the knowledge finding out of this true Church The necessitie of infallible marâ—es to knowe the Churche is soe necessarie to all men as hath bene sayd and as noe man can be saued without it it is certaine that Christ hath left â—ome such manifest sure and infallible markes to knowe this true Church and Congregation from all other congregations in the world as no man maye be deceaued therin excepte he will wilfully blinde him selfe This is agréeable bothe to the mercy and iustice of Christ whoe forsawe in his prouidence the doutes that would rise about this matter For which cause also S. Ausâ—en sayth Aug. in psal 32. That the holy Prophetes spake more plainer of this Church theÌ„ of christ him selfe Foreseeing that more controuersies should rise about the Church then about Christ c. Of these markes therfore we are nowe to entreate so farre as Nicols geueth vs occasion Which thing because it is of al other of most importance for the true Church once found Why hereâ—iques are soe angerie with the markes of the Churche all other controuersies are ended the heretique striuethe moste in this pointe to auoide the true markes which descrye his estate and to forge other markes which are noe markes at all nor any waye to be found in his church but yet may be chalenged by him and not soe euedently improued by the contrarie parte But for the examination bothe of his our markes Three properties of true markes it is to be noted that true markes of the Church should haue these thrée coÌ„ditions or properties at the least First that the marke should be better knowen and easier to be found out then the thing marked by it For otherwise it could be no good marke being more or no lesse obscure then the thing it selfe which it ought to make manifest vnto vs. Secondly that the marke be proper only to the thing marked and not comon to many other for theÌ„ it should no more make manifest the thing we séeke for then any other Thirdly that the marke be suche as our forefathers vsed in the Primatiue Church to proue their
Church true against heretickes Now then let vs examine bréefly both our marks and those of our aduersaries accordinge to these thrée properties and conditionsâ— Our aduersaries bring two principal markes Cal. li. 4. in caâ— 1. num 7. 8.9 whereby they would haue the true Church to be tryed the one is the true vse of Sacramentes the other the true interpretatioÌ„ and preaching of God his word which two thinges albâ—it they be priâ—iledges of the true Church and onely found in the same yet can they be no external markes to shew vnto vs the saied Church Heretical markes reâ—uted for that they want al those thrée properties of true markes before recited For first they are as vnknowen to vs as the thinge we séeke for it being as hard and obscure and as much in coÌ„trouersie who doe preach the worde sincerely and administer the Sacramentes aright as it is whiâ—h is the true Church Secondly these two thinges are not soe proper to the true Church but that euery heretical congregation may and doth in the sight of the world chaleÌ„g the same vnto it selfe consequeÌ„tly it can not be a good marke to distinguishe their coÌ„gregations from the true Church Thirdly the holy Fathers did neuer vse thes two marks against the hereticks of their time but rather did reiect theÌ„ when they were brought for marks by hereticks as they are now Li. 3. ca. 19. de bap con Don. ep 48. ad Rog. li. 1. ca. 29. cont Cresc as it may appeare by S. AusteÌ„ in diuers places against the Donatists Rogatistes and other hereâ—ickes which did labour as he sayeth That their error may be named truth ther wikednes iustice for the sacrameÌ„ts scripturs which they hold for a shew not to saluation The Catholickes on the other side doe alleag more certaine easie and manifest marks for trial of the Church which markes haue al the properties before recited albeit they vse to bring 15. or 16â— sâ—ueral notes or signes al fouÌ„ded in the scripturs by vew wherof it is most esie to discerne the true Church from al other yet for breuities sake I wil name only fower thrée whereof are impugned by Iohn Nicolls in his booke The first marke is that the true Church is Catholicke as our Créed teacheth vs 1 Catholicke Auâ— ep 170. ad Seuer Lirin li. aduer here which word S. AusteÌ„ expoundeth thus The Catholicke Church is that which is spread ouer the whole world an other father not long aâ—ter him exponÌ„deth that to be the Catholike or vniuersal Church which holdeth that faithe â—ero dial con Lucif Pacian ep â— ad Simp. Aug. li de vera religi cap. 7 tract 118. in Ioh. in psal 49. 147. li. 2. cont Pet. cap. 55. ser. 131. de tempore that hath bene hâ—lde generally by Christians euerye where and in all times since the beginningâ— And generally al the holy Fathers doe vse and vrge this marke against all heretiques prouing that church onlye to be the true church which being planted by the Apostles and their successors was spread ouer al partes of the world or the chéefe partes therof wherby it tooke the name of Catholique and that all other congregations which afterwarde began in corners or by some one or fewe men contrarie to the more parte of Christianitie can not be the true Church but hereticall Sinagogues Li. de vtili cre cap. 7. Whereas there be many heresies amongest Christians saith S. Austen and all wil seeme to be catholiques calling other men heretiques besides them selues the Catholique Churche is but one more plentifull in multitude if we consider the whole world as al men will graunt And againe Ep. 165. ad gen If an Angel froÌ„ heauen should saye leaue the Christianitie of the whole world and hould the partes of Donatus he ought to be accursed for that he goeth about to cutt thee from the whole and to thrust thee into a part And againe Li. 4. de simb ca. 10. Whatsoeuer Congregation of heresie sitteth in a Corner she is a harlot and noe mother Now whether this marke agrée to our churche or theirs let our aduersaries iudge The second marke of the true church is Antiquitie 2 Antiquitie For as God was before the diuel and as the good séede was soweÌ„ in the gospel before the cockle Math. 13. soe was Christ his true church before al heresie and al heresies haue sprong vp since our Catholique faithe was planted whiche thing may be shewed in this maÌ„ner See of this Aug. li. coÌ„ Ep. funda cap. 4. IeroÌ„ ep ad Pam. Ocean dial con Lucif Hillar li. 6. de trin ante medium For that in euery notable change or alteration of religion these six thinges maye be shewed First the authore of that newe religion secoÌ„dly the new doctrine which he taught thirdly the time when he began fowerthly the place or couÌ„trie wher he began fiftly that some men resisted and impugned this newe doctrine at the beginning sixthly that some other fewe men first began to embrace the same And al these six thinges we can shewe in euery heresie since Christes time as also of the doctrine of our aduersaries But they can neuer shewe the same of the beginning of our doctrine And therfore it appeareth that their doctrine is new and hâ—retical and ours auncient and Catholique This argument of antiquitie al the Fathers haue vsed against heretiques of their time Lib. de prescrip con here What are you saith TertuliaÌ„ to certaine heretiques wheÌ„ce wheÌ„ came you where haue you beene hidden soe longe Lib. 2. And Optatus against Parmenian Shew the beginning of your chayre which will challenge the holy Church vnto you The third marke vsed by the ould Fathers to know the true Church 3 Succession is succession of Bishopes froÌ„ the Apostles time especially in the sea of Rome Lib. 3. con her cap. 3. For so saieth Ireneus aboue 1300 yeares past reconinge vpp all the Bishopes of Rome from S. Péeter vnto his time And adding that by that succession of Bishopes all heretiques were confounded The same saythe Tertulian Lib. de prescrip Let heretiques laye forthe the beginninge of their churches let them tourne ouer the order of their Bishopes comminge doune by successionâ— cet Epi. her 27. Epiphanius also vseth this argument of reconing vpp the Bishopes of Rome for proofe of the Catholiquâ— faythe and confutation of heresie The like dothe Optatus and S. Augustine against the Donatistes Oopt li. 2. cont Paâ—m Au. â—p 165. 42. Willing them to doe the like if they meane to aquite them selues from heresie And the reasone of this is for the Christ leauing his Churche to be gouerned by his Apostles whiche were Bishopes and they by their successors whosoeuer came in afterward not by this lawfull and ordinarie dore of ordination succession Iohn 10 except he bring extraordinarie
lacke of successioÌ„ for they might wel haue denied his ordinarie vocation for yâ— want séeinge they had an expresse lawe from God Nu. 1.4.8 that none should be préest but of the Tribe of Leuie wherof Christ was not but of Iuda But the Iews sinn was in reiecting Christs extraordinary vocatioÌ„ which was prophecied to theÌ„ by Moises before that it should be as his was Deut. 18. and which Christ did now proue by many euident supernatural miracles and yet they would not receue him This Christ him selfe testifieth sayinge Ioh. 15. If I had not done the works among them which noe other man hath done they had no sinne And againe Ioh. 14. Beleeue me for my workes sake And againe If I doe not the works of my father that is supernatural works beleeue me not but if I doe them then if you wil not beleue me beleue my works Ioh. 10. Againe Luc. 7. when Iohn Baptist did send to Christ to know whether he was the true Messias or noe he wrought miracles only in their sight and bidd them tell Iohn Baptist what they had séene and harde signifying that that was a sufficient testimonye Extraordinari vocation not to be admitted without miracles and without that he were not to be beléeued The like he hathe shewed in all those that euer he sente besides him selfe to reforme or instructe the people by extraordinarie vocation without succession as in Moyses Aron and all the Prophetes the Apostels also and diuers other after them as Anthonie Hillarion Benedict Dominicke Francis and others which being noe pastors by successioÌ„ wer sent extraordinarily for the help of the Church but their vocatioÌ„ was declared by euident miracles And soe also must â—ur new pastors and prelates shew their extraordinarie vocation by euident miracles séeing they can not plead ordinare succession or Canonical ordination excepte they will challenge more vnto them selues then the very sonne of God whoe required not to be admitted as I haue shewed but only vppon that testimonye concurringe together with the Scriptures which spake of him Nether is that drye shifte of Philipe of Mornay or rather childishe euasion to be admitted where he saythe that it is a sufficient miracle for the protestantes that one poore friar Luther hath made so great an alteration in the world A straung miracle whereby the protestaÌ„ts proue their vocation in soe few yeares and so many thowsand men haue forsakeÌ„ their old religion vpon the onely blaste of his mouth This I say is very ridiculous and worthy of such a deuine as he was For by this argument Arrius Donatus Manicheus Pelagius aboue al other Mahomet wrought verye greate miracles and proued their vocations substantiallye because they drew from the trueth so many thowsand men to followe their errours Nay rather it is an euident argument that Luther was a wicked deceauer preaching plausible doctrine to itching eares 2. Tim. 4. For you shall neuer finde since their was any orderly forme of a Church and ecclâ—siasticall gouernement in the same that ether such as were sent extraordinarily to reforme it had soe greate rushinge of people vnto them for that their doctrine was vnpleasant in reprehendinge mens vices or that they withdrew those few which folowed them from the obedience of their former pastours Note this oâ—seruation ruling them by right of succession as Luther did though those former pastours wer neuer so wicked in life Nay more Christ himselfe which came to plant a new law and new pastours also and to remoue from there places the scribes and pharises yet for the litle time they had to endure which was vntil after the new testament was sealed with his bloode Math. 8. Marc. 1. Luc. 5. he taught obedience to the saide Pharasies as maye appeare by sending the leapers vnto them and by charginge all men to doe as they commaunded Math. 23. And this is greatly to be noted as a very plaine detection of our aduersaries Fifthely Nicols obiectethe that the Iewes bragged of succession from their father Abraham and yet Christ saith they were of the deuill soe diuers that came to their bishoprickes by succession Ihon. 8. were herâ—tiques after as Nestorius and Samosateâ—us But all this as the other is quite from the matter For we graunte as I saide before that those which succéede in good mens places may alter and become wicked and playe also the heretiques or apostatas But that religion which hath come downe by succession from the beginning as ours hath done can not be false nor that religion which raiseth it selfe against the same without succession and the other markes before recited as al heresies haue done cannot be true Lastly he obiecteth that we by this succession of the sea of Rome doe tye our religion to one place and prouince Which is not so but it is his his felowes gross error in mistakinge vs. For albeit we hould the Bishop of Rome as successor of S. Péeter to be the only supreme pastor of al christianitie yet is it not necessarie that he shoulde be in Rome or any way tyed vnto that citie but iâ— that whol citie were distroyed desolate and waste and all Europe besides in the possession of our enemies as it was in ould times of persecuting Emperors yet mighte ther a man be chosen to that dignitie and bishopricke in Aegipte Asia or India and should be asmuch Bishop of Rome and haue as great authoritie as hee that sittethe there nowe and hys faythe be called the Romane faith were hâ—e neuer soe poore or meane a prieste of anye other countrye In his bad aunswere tâ— Howlet Wherfore we doe not make oure Catholique religion locall or of one prouince as besides Ihon Nicols the peart master of penbrooke Haull very vndocterly affirmeth I might heere add a pleasant obiection of Ihon Nicols which he vrgeth in great earnest against succession that is that the Turke at this daye possesseth fower Patriarkcal sées by succession and that Antichrist in the ende of the world shal coÌ„â— to his tirannicall authoritie by succession cet Which is as true as that his religion commeth from Christ and his Apostles by succession What righte the Turke hathe to the fower Patriarchall sées Antechrist to the rule of the world by succession the same hath his religion and her prelates to the gouernmente of Christian people And thus I haue aunswered all that they obiect against the first thrée markes of the true church For against that fowerth which is vnitie they say nothing nor can they bring any excuse of their owne discord but only that we haue sectes among vs also as Benedictins Varietie of religious orders noe sectes in the Cotholique Church Dominicans Franciscans other orders of religion Which is as absurd an illation as you haue in your bodye fingers toes eares like partes therfore you haue distincte bodyes and are a monster For as
by Stephanus Bishop of Rome as S. Ierome witnesseth And Stephanus vsed his authoritie Iero dial cont Lncif For he condemned most worthily this Councel as S. Austen affirmeth The same also appeareth by that Aug. li. 3.6 7. de Bapti that Felicissimus the NouatiaÌ„ with his companions went to Rome to complayne to Cornelius the Bishoppe against Cyprian to haue him deposed Cy. li. 1. ep 3 ad Cornel. And that the Bishop of Rome as generall pastour of all mighte vppon causes depose any Bishoppe of an other countrie it appeareth by Cyprian him selfe whoe desireth Stephanus Bishopp of Rome to depose by his letters one Martianus a Nouatian Cyp li. 3. ep 13. ad Steph Bishopp of Orlâ—ans in Fraunce and to substitute an oâ—her in his roome And for the libertie here mentioned by Ciprian for Bishops to say and thincke what they list in matters of controuersie Aug. li. 3 de Bap. ca. 3. S. Austen expoundeth it not to be vnderstoode generally in al matters but in controuersies not yet discussed By this also is answered that which followeth in Nicols out of CipraÌ„ without citing the place That CypriaÌ„ should complaine of some lewde mens runninge to Rome against him which is true For he complaineth to Cornelius the Pope of Felicissimus Fortunatus NouatiaÌ„s that without iust cause came to complaine of him to the saied Cornelius Cy. li. 1. ep 3 ad Corneli he coÌ„meÌ„deth Cornelius for not acceptinge their accusatioÌ„s nor yet the letters which they brought against him By which act as also in al the epistle he coÌ„firmeth most plainly the Primacie of Rome Wherfore al the which follweth in Nicols is most impudently inserted of him selfe to wit That CypriaÌ„ complained of prophane men schismaticks which withdrew theÌ„ selues to the Bishoppe of Rome wickedly perswading them selues that the Bishops of Africa had lesse power theÌ„ the Bishop of Rome But S. CipriaÌ„ hath no such thing The laste that he citeth about this matter out of S. Chrisostome Chri. ho. 83. in Math. â—a 23. Whoe soeuer shal couet primacy ouer bishops in earth shal find coÌ„fusioÌ„ in heaueÌ„ he that shal coÌ„teÌ„d to be head of al shal not be reckoned in the number of Christ his seruants Although it maye be trewlye spoken of him which shal couetouslye and ambitiously contend to be Primate hauing no right to it yet I finde noe such thinge in the place alleaged nor in any other place that this quotation might lead me vnto for the 83. homelie is not vppon the 23. chapter of Mathewe but vppon the 26. where noe such thinge isâ— but all against them of the Sacrifice of the Euchariste Secondly vpon the 23. chapter there are the 73.74 and 75. homelies wherein also noe such thing is found Finally that Chrisostome acknoweledged the supremacie of the Bishop of Rome Chris. ep 1. ad InnoceÌ„ it may appeare playnly by his epistle to Innocentius the Pope by whom he desireth to be restored againe to his Patriarchship being vniustly deposed and that his deposers might be punnished by him And that the saied InnoceÌ„tius practized this authoritie appeareth by that he excommunicated from Rome Niceph. li. 13. ca. 34. both Arcadius the Emperour and Eudoxia his wife for their vniust dealinge agaynste Chrisostome in Constantinople Towching Images he erreth altogether in heapinge vppe matter against Idolls which we more deteste then they but yet hâ— bringeth a longe place out of Arnobius against the Gentiles where amongâ—st other things he saieth to them Arno. li. 8. cont Gent. We nether worship nor wish for crosses you that consecrate woodden godds doe adore in deede wooden crosses as partes of your goddes In which words to let passe Nicolls corrupt translation almost in euerie lyne Arnobius onely telleth the Gentiles that ChristiaÌ„s nether worshipped nor wished for crosses in that sense as they obiected to witt to make them Goddes for soe the Gentiles being reproued by Christians of their idolatrie replied that the Christians were Staurolatrae Marke this resoÌ„ for images that is idolatours to crosses as much as the Gentiles weare to other thinges which Arnobius denieth And yet hereby it appeareth that Christians vsed some honour and reuerence to crosses in thos daies or els the GeÌ„tiles would neuer haue obiâ—ctâ—d idolatrie of crosses vnto them as both Arnobius in diuers places TertulliaÌ„ tesâ—ifie that they did Tertu in apolo ca. 26. After this he obiecteth two places of Epiphanius against Images The firste is without quotation but yet it is found in the second Councell of Nice Sy. 7. Act. 6 obiected by heretiques then as it is nowe and ther it is answered by another Epiphanius in the name of the Councell and proued by many argumentes to be none of Epiphanius his wordes but foysted in by the wicked Iconomachians The other place also Epip ep ad IoaÌ„ Hieros which is againste the hanginge vppe of mens pictures in the Church is added by heretiques to a certayne epistle of Epiphanius and is parhaps that second place which the Councel affermed to be inserted Act. 6. for it speaketh of two but whether it be that or noe it is euident that it is added by heretiques as the other before was both for that the epistle of Epiphanius was perfectlye ended before these wordes ensewe Hier. ep ad PaÌ„mac coÌ„t IoaÌ„ Hiero. And S. Ierome to Pammachius reciteth almoste all this epistle of Epiphanius translated by him and yet maketh noe mention of these wordes And it is reported in the seuenthe generall Councel how that the schollers of Epiphanius after his death builded a church in his honour Synod 7. and putt his image in the same which they woulde neuer haue done if he had taught them that it were idoâ—atrie to haue anye mans image in a Churche And this shall suffice for this third part For al the rest which Nicols bringethe ether is against him selfe or impertinent to the purpose or so plaine as ech man may easely answere the same Touching his oration and sermon presented in the Popes consistorie Hauinge ended my former answere to Iohn Nicols recaÌ„tation there came vnto my handes a newe booke of the same authour for nowe he hath gotten the name of an authour and promiseth fertilitie in printinge bookes hereafter The title wherof was The tytle of Nicols second booke The oration and sermon made at Rome by commaundemente of the fower Cardinalls and the Dominican Inquisitour vppon paine of death by Iohn Nicols latelye the Popes scholler Which after I had read and a litle considered I could easely haue broken into some extremitie of laughter had not coÌ„passioÌ„ staied the same coÌ„ceued partly towardes the man him selfe whose end I did see must needs be subiect to shaÌ„e and confusion by publishing such vntruthes as were not long iustifiable but especially towardes those whom so miserable a felow by reason of their parciall affection had deluded in so