deem Than other places this though strange it seem I can prove true for in the Gospel day Distinctions of this kind are done away Cathederal It seems then I no holier am then thou In thy conceit but Scripture doth us show There 's holy ground as well as ground prophane Place where God will be worship'd and again Place where he will no Sacrifice accept But th'Off'rer and th' Oblation both reject Jayle The Scripture shews that such esteem there WAS Of Place but shews that such esteem should pass Away from Christians wherefore I say Thy Ground or Place no holier is this day Than other places wherefore every where Men may with holy hearts in prayer appear Cathederal My Place must needs be holy for this cause It builded was therein to teach Gods Laws It consecrated was also by those Whom God to minister his Word there chose So was not every place then thou dost ill Thus to compare thy Place with this my Hill Jayle Were all this proved which thou never can Yet mine 's as holy seeing such a man As Christ hath sanctifi'd each place so far As therein he 'll accept of holy Prayer And Paul i' th Jayle at Midnight sang an Hymn Such as few singers ever sang in thine Cathederal Well I perceive I must with thee engage In a Religious contest ere this Age Doth terminate Then let us now propose The Point to be Disputed and then close In Argument The Question then shall he About the Church Whether 't be Me or Thâ—e Jayle No Question like to this the Church once found Will for our finding all Truth prove a Ground So clear that we no Truth shall need to know But she will strait be ready it to show Then fit thy self thy Church for to maintain For that 's the thing I question to be plain Cathederal Dost question that then that will I defend Against thy Opposition Now descend To some particularities that we The reason of thy doubt may fully see And fairely Answer Then let 's see the ground Thou hast to prove thy Church and Doctrine sound Jayle Well then the first place where I shall detect thee For no true Church now let who can protect thee Is thy Minority or want of Age To be esteemed for that Matron sage Espous'd to Christ 'bove sixteen hundred years Ago whilst thou as yesterday appears Cathederal Blis me Did ever any creature know A Jayl that had a more unshamefac'd brow Than thou in this What do not I well know ye To be of Leidens breed of Munster trow ye For shame leave talking of Antiquity Thou art in no respect so old as I. Jayle Alas I see thou knowst me not i' th least Whilst thou deriv'st my line from that mad beast Of Munster ' gainst whose pranks I did protest Even in those dayes as Cassander hath prest Me forth in Print and sith he doth acquit me Thy Callumny in this case cannot hit me Cathederal What wilt deny thy Father do not each My Pulpits sound thee forth when there I preach For such an Upstart Yea my Doctors all There shew thy Radix this their Volumns shall Attest yea th'Papists whom thou sayst acquit thee Say Munster as thy Patriarch befits thee Jayle Thy Doctors and the Papists sometimes say I am no older than that Germans fray Yet otherwhile they both confess I came Down from th'Apostls times now then for shame Insist not on their witness which appears In its Concordance like two Dogs by th' ears Cathederal Sure thou dost wrong both Papists and my Men Beware how thou dost thus imploy thy Pen For if thou shew not from sufficient ground Where they themselvs in this case thus confound I will requite thee as a false accuser And of these reverend Clerks a great abuser Jayle First Willet in 's Synopsis Papismi Opposing Papists 'bout Antiquity Observes that Bernard names some Sectaries Who Pedobaptisme did much despise They 'r call'd Apostolicks because 't is thought From th'Postles times these Sectaries came out Cathederal I find that Willet speaks to this effect But those bore not the name of thy proud Sect Men may deny to baptize Infants so They may deny Believers Baptism too So then this Instance thee no way assists Vnless these men were prov'd Anabaptists Jayle The Papists in their Book of Motives say Th'Apostolicks were such as at this day Are called Anabaptists yea that name They do expresly give them and the same Thy old Friend Marbeck gives to some in Rome In Anno Dom. One hundred fifty one Cathedral I read these Books and must confess I find These things are so What then Thou art behind Some which do boast of their Antiqâ—ity From such like proves to wit the Papacy But yet all this cannot evince the truth Of their Church-state nor yet of thine forfooth Jayle If I no better Plea in this respect Can shew than th'Papists thou shalt me reject As one that 's noval but at present I Am not engag'd for my Antiquity 'T is thou O Minster which must now engage To prove thy self Christs Church in point of age Cathederal Come on I reason thus from Featly's mouth That Church is of full age whose Doctrine's Truth Perpetual unchanged and I say Such is my Doctrine wherefore now I may Conclude with him that thus my Church is true Thy Answer now bring forth to open view Jayle I do deny thy Minor and I say Thy Doctrine which gives enterance to thy way Of Church-ship is not true nor yet so old As in the Scriptures to be found enrol'd For thou without Christs Soul-converting Word Thy Church with carnal members hast bestor'd Cathederal 'T is true my Members now are wholly such When I receive them as no word can touch In order to Conversion yet I say The holy Scripture will evince my way Was not our Father Abra'm and his Seed Brought into one Church-state search now and read Jayle I search and find That unto every Nation To every Creature good news of Salvation For Faith and for Repentance must be taught Before into Christs Church they can be brought Contrary-wise 't is clear that Abr'ams Seed Had no such Obligation that we read Cathederal The Parents do believe and so the Child For Abra'ms Seed in Holy Writ are stil'd Gods Covenant which Abram is the same That 's made with us now therefore here again See how thou err'st making Parental-Faith So needful to let in to th'Churches Path. Jayle The Scripture shews most plain that Abrams Seed In Gospel-times are such as own his Creed Also the Scriptures quite dissolve that Plea Of Parent-interest in a Gospel-day The Jews are Abrams Seed and yet 't is plain That makes them not in 's Covenant remain Cathederal I tell thee Christian-Infants are as free To Gospel-Priviledges as we see The Children of the Jewes were in their time To Legal Rites thus doth my Doctrine shine And is most Antient being not deny'd Till such
as thou oppos'd it in your pride Jayle I know thy Conscience tells thee there is need Of FAITH to give admittance to the Seed Of Christians unto Gospel-Sacraments For of thy Doctrine these are the Contents That Faith and true Repentance are expected Of all ere they to Bapti'm are elected Cathederal 'T is true I say Faith and Repentance are Requir'd of All as needful to prepare Them unto Baptisme but then you know Sith Infants cannot do this I allow Them Sureties who for them do then Believe And eke Repent before I them receive Jayle Well now you grant Repentance joyn'd with Faith Must be before any Admittance hath Into the Church TO THIS I DO AGREE So that the Difference 'twixt thâ—e and me Is this thou cal'st Grown Persons to Repent And then Baptisest a poor Innocent Cathederal Though this I hold 't is not a Noval thing For proof of this Authorities I 'll bring From Antient times which are irrefragable At least they 'r such as thou canst not disable The Wisdom of the Church did Infants give This Priviledge that they for aye might live Jayle This Doctrine is too new to be esteem'd True or Perpetual though by you deem'd Of such great worth Reduce this false account For it to more than nought will ne're amount O Rotten Church not now one member's known When he 's Unchurch'd to have Faith of his own Cathederal Thou lay'st so great a stress on this one Point As if 't would prove each member out of Joynt What must my Doctrine stand or fall as here I Vanquished or Victor do appear Sure though this ground I yeeld I never shall To ruine in my Church or Doctrine fall Jayle Well yeeld this ground then thou hast no faiâ—h When th' art enchurched so thou maist be grath Thou art foundationsess therefore must fall For what 's anothers Faith a rotten Wall For thee to lean upon wherefore I say This false Prop gon thy Church soon fades away Cathederal That Doctrine which I preach for a Foundation Is Christ as Crucifi'd for mans Salvation There is no Name nor Thing whereon I found My Church save this wherefore my Root issound 'T is neither Baptisme nor yet Sureties Which a Foundation-place for me supplies Jayle Alas what 's all this Talk if without Faith Which I have shew'd none of thy Members hath At their Admission nor for many Years The least lota of true Faith appears This is thy State O Minster at the best Anothers not thy own Faith which thou hast Cathederal I told thee I can prove what here I hold To be the same the Church receiv'd of old As that 's my Task and were my Study here I 'de shew this Custom 'bove One thousand year The Church hath used wherefore 't is no new Devised Fable but a Point most true Jayle No Study can accommodate thee so As to prove Sponsers Faith the Means which do Give any entrance in a Scripture way Into Christs Church wherefore I boldly say 'T is a meer Novalty and did arise When darkness came by means of Heresies Cathederal I see thou standst upon Antiquity Only as Scripture doth it amplify From whence I must confess an Evidence Cannot in terminis be fetched thence But let us hear what further thou canst say Against the use of Sponsers Faith this day Jayle I note this further as a consequence Of what thou 'st said me thinks it follows thence That Infants must sit down at Christ his Table If others Faith to Baptism them enable For can the Church in this their wants supply And not in that This soundeth monstrously Cathederal The Case is not alike for God requires A Self-examination and desires Men should the Body of our Lord discern When they approach that holy Rite to learn That so they may not drink their Condemnation In that which is ordain'd for Consolation Jayle 'T is true God call for this then pray thee why Canst thou not learn these Reasons to apply To holy Baptisme in which our Lord More Frequently requires Faith in his Word With true Repentance thus these Cases are Alike made manifest and so appear Cathederal The Churches Judgment doth the one allow And not the other unto Infants Now Either the Church or thou O Jayle must be Deceived but canst thou more clearly see Than she who hath the eye of Learning bright Sure no then cease against the Church to fight Jayle How like to Rome is this thy Argument Dost thou not know that this same Sacrament Was also given to Infants in Old time Sure there 's as plain a ground for this as thine Alleag'd for Infant-Baptism hence 't is clear As th' one so th' other thou should'st quite forbear Cathederal I know that Rome this Argument doth bring To force us when the Text saith no such thing And sure the Churches Judgment will out-weigh The private Judgement of such as inveigh Against her doings and I 'll hold me here Until a means of greater strength appear Jayle Admit the Sentence of the Church be great In things most doubtful yet I must entreat Thee not to use it till thou 'st proved plain Thy self to be that Church Yet here again I needs must tell thee That the Doctors all Engag'd ' gainst Rome about thine ears do fall Cathederal Some of my Doctors sang a Strain too high When in this Point engag'd ' gainst Popery I likewise grant before this Plea be mine I must as a true Church conspicuous shine Which I shall do ere this Discourse have end Then to the next Objection let 's descend CHAP. II. The Arg. 'Gainst Nations by the Lump For Churches being made The Jayle Disputes the Minster strives T' uphold that golden Trade Jayle MY next Objection O Cathederal Is this Christ hath no Church that 's National But Nationall thy Church is known to be Ergo Not Christ's Church but a Pedigree Of Persons yet unfit for Church-Communion Though thou with them and they with thee have Union Cathederal Fond Jayle didst never read what David said In Psalm the second were description's made Of Christ his Church to have her propagation Amongst the Gentiles to their utmost Nations And when the Kingdom was tane from the Jewes 'T was given unto a Nation Scripture shews Jayle Peter doth well expound the second Psalm In Acts the tenth when sent with Gospel-Balm Unto Cesaria where Gods acceptation Extends to such as fear him in each Nation In Peters time no Church was National Yet Holy Nation Peter doth her call Cathederal So then it seems the Church is National But by a Figure Metaphorical Consisting but of such as joyntly hold A Union in those Laws which are enrol'd In Divine Writ as touching Church-affairs I like not this for it my Pomp impairs Jayle Christ saith The Gospel would Divisions cause Such as were not occasion'd by the Laws Of Moses for in Families there should Two this three that three this and two that hold But
if Christs Church for Constitution be Like Moses Church what need they disagree Cathederal It seems my Union thou approvest not This savours of Sedition or some Plot. The Land shall never quiet be untel Rulers by their Edicts all sorts compel To Uniformity in things Religious And therefore thy Opinion is Prodigious Jayl Rulers by Edicts Uniformity May well require in things transitory But Rulers as they 'r such in things divine Ought not t'compel men in the Gospel-time Rulers may miss the Truth which if they do Destruction unto their Commands is due Cathedral Until the Rulers did by force compel All to the Church which under them did dwell The Church was thin maintenance was scant But since they nourish't her she feels no want Her Honour 's great her Members like the sands As well in this as many other Lands Jayl I do confess of Christians nominal The world abounds by th'Church that 's National But it 's most plain thy Church no semblance hath With those that walked in th'Apostles path Whose Honour lay not in the outward State But with true Grace their Souls were eonsolate Cathedral Come tell not me of th'Apostles days for then Christs Church was small of the meanest men But when the Nobler sort possession took Of Christianity the Church forsook Her subterranean places and her Head Did lift up as one risen from the dead Jayl The Churches outward glory doth not prove That she from death to life doth nearer move But may as soon portend her Vacuation Of Grace as John hints in his Revelation And for the Nobler sort it seems this day They 'r too great strangers to the Gospel-way Cathedral How canst thou say this dost not daily see With one consent they do resort to me Yea they unto the Church are so united As that with none like her they are delighted And by their strength the Church is now protected And her Opposers unto her subjected Jayl The Church doth not subject by worldly powers Her Opposites Nor is this plea of yours A better plea for you than 't is for Rome To whom the Nobler sort more freely come Yea Nations Kinreds Peoples to the Whore Of Babylon resort her to adore Cathedral The Prophets do presage that Nations shall Flow to the Church and bring their Glory all Into the Church the New-Jerusalem And this my Doctors do expound of them Who now by Kingly Power their Subjects bring Into my Church my divine songs to sing Jayl Thou know'st right well the Papists do the same Their present pomp and glory to maintain But you are both deceived for 't is clear Before that blessed joyful day appear The Jews a People chiefly there concern'd In Can'ans Land must once more be confirm'd Cathedral If this be true I must confess I h've err'd When to my present state I have referr'd These Prophecies But thus much I perceive A State that 's National thou dost believe The Church may yet enjoy although it be When Isr'el their desired Land shall see Jayl This weighty case I will not undertake Here to dispute but this is what I spake I say the Prophets mainly have an eye In these Presages to the Jews Then why Shouldst thou imagine this thy present glory To be the subject of the Prophets story Cathedral Well we will leave unto consideration What hath been said of that Prophetick Nation Wherein the Jews I must acknowledge here Are often mentioned as may appear By reading of the places Now let 's see What thou hast further which must answered be Jayl Thy bringing Nations by the lump into The Name of Christian Churches plainly do Destroy the use of Preaching to convert The sons of men and makes their carnal heart Believe they 'r Christians from the womb and so Their souls deceive unto their overthrow Cathedral What though by preaching I do not convert My Members yet I have another Art Them to renew for this my Book doth say When any I receive into my way They are regenerate and born anew See therefore how thy charge is found untrue Jayl I know thy Book doth say 't but t is not true For Christs Book tells us all that 's born anew Are like the Wind which in such sort doth blow As others by their hearing it may know Again 't is said the World they overcome Of all which signs thy Converts can shew none Cathedral I grant where true Conversion is there 's ceasing From fleshly sins There 's likewise some increasing In holy life And truly in these cases My Infant Converts claim no real places ' Mongst Scripture Converts But I say unless They Converts be they have no Blessedness Jayl God doth not gather where he hath not strewed But from the Word it never can be shewed Where Infants are required to convert Nor yet canst thou with thy most subtil Art Discov'ry make 'twixt Infants eight dayes old To say This is renew'd That under sin is sold Cathedral I must confess such a discovery Doth pass my art for Babes in Infancy Do not demonstrate whereby we may know Which have the Spirit or whether or no Any whom I baptize have yet receiv'd it But as I have been taught I have believ'd it Jayl Thou said even now Infants no Blessedness Can have unless they converts be To this I answer As old Adams sin involves them ' Thout their consent in death So Christ absolveâ— them ' Thout their concurrence for Paul doth profess The Grace by Christ exceedeth Adams loss Cathedral So then this is thy judgment I perceive That look how Adam Infants did bereave ' Thout their committing sin of happiness So Christ ' thout their obedience shal them bless I hold the contrary to this but now Some other Argument I pray thee show CHAP. III. The Arg. The Minister Papal Rome disclaims The Jayle from thence doth shew Her own Prelatick state she mains If not unchurch her too Jayl IN this great Question Where the Church must be It may do well thy radix for to see The more I look the more I see thee come In thy Church-state but from great Papal Rome From whence I argue If Rome have no Church Then thou wilt scarce be found to have a Porch Cathedral Presumptuous Jayl my Chronicles do shew I cast off Rome and all her Popish crew Yea of their Bones a fire I have made And she sometimes with same coyn hath me paid Which clearly shews I have her quite disserted As an old Harlot from all Truth diverted Jayl Thou cast off Rome thou saist but thou hast neither Baptisme nor Church-power but what either Thou brought from thence this Rome thee boldly tels And thou canst find no answer which refels This their Objection So 't is evident Unless Rome be a Church thy Church is spent Cathedral What though their Baptism I do valid deem What though their Ordination I esteem Must it needs follow Rome is Christ his Spouse Or else the title of
Christs Church I loose This is Jayl-Logick and to Jayl must go Or else the reason I 'm resolv'd to know Jayl It follows clearly and I marvel why Any wise-man can Rome the name deny Of Church if they true Baptisme and Power In Church-concerns retain unto this hour If these Essentials be truly there For lesser faults t is hard the Church to tear Cathedral O but she 's full of faults and those most great For by unwritten things she doth defeat Poor souls of Gods most holy Ordinances VVhich Saints have counted rich Inheritances My Doctors shew how much I do detect her Of this Abuse and therefore do reject her Jayle Unwritten things Thou canst not without shame Blame her in this because thou dost the same For wher 's thy Common Pray'r-Book or thy Crossings Found in the Scripture more than Popish-Massings Were not thy Organ Pipes and Antick Dressings Found in one Chapter with the Popes Confessings Cathederal Well but they worship Images which I Reject as being gross Idolatry Indeed it is unsufferable folly For men to count a carved Post for holy And then to bow before what their own hands Have made contrary to our Lords Commands Jayle Alas thou' rt every whit as far amiss For I have seen thee do as much as this What means thy frequent bowing to that Board In this thy Quire How canst thou think our Lord Will ' low thee this and not allow them that Sith all 's but Wood by you set up in State Cathederal 'T is true I bow to th' Altar but what tho I do not worship it as these men do Their graven Images for 't is most plain They Idolize But as for me I feign No holiness inherent for to be In th' Altar when to it I bow my knee Jayle This is the Papists Plea for what they do In Image-Worship yea they tell thee so In express words accursing every one Which worship Images of Wood or Stone Now therefore if this Plea for thee will serve 'T will Image-Worship full as well preserve Cathederal I wish thou be no Papist all this while Thy disputation savours of their Stile Nor need I doubt but Rome hath her Consorts With thee who in a hidden way deports Themselves that so they may advantage take My Church and all her holy things to shake Jayle Mistake not Minster I no Papist am I only shew what thou must say and can Noâ— choose but say till thou be better grounded That when thou call'st Rome Whore thou art confounded With her because in truth she is thy Mother She tells thee so and thou canst shew no other Cathederal All this thou speak'st because I was baptiz'd By th' Roman Church and also emolliz'd Or form'd into a Church and there Ordain'd By Babylonish Priests with whordoms stain'd This I must grant We likewise had from thence The Scriptures yet thou canst with them dispense Jayle The latter will not prove the former sound For though a Jew or Turk the Book had found And so from them I should receive the same Yet hence no man could argue without shame That now if by the Jew or Turk we be Ordained Bishops it must satisfie Cathederal VVell if 't be so that th'VVhore of Babylon Can give no Baptisme then I have none Or if she could no Bishops well Ordain I must confess my calling will prove vain But yet I 'll hold me where I am till thou A way more clear than this my way canst show Jayle Who ere they be gives others holy Orders Must needs be such as are within the borders Of holy Church now sith thou dost exclude Rome from the Church to thee she 's not endu'd With power Ordinative But the way Of Ordination I 'll anon display CHAP. IV. The Arg. The Jayle the Minster doth detect As unbaptiz'd and vain The Minster doth the Charge reject The Jayle doth it maintain Jayle BEcause six Lines no Preface will allow My next Objection presently I 'll show Which on an Antient Maxime I will ground No BAPTISME No CHURCH can wel be found VVherefore the Point for thee to Answer shall Be this Thou hast no Baptisme at all Cathederal Prodigious Jayl where got'st thou this Objection 'T is some Anabaptistical infection But sith thou haâ—t my Christendom deny'd First I 'll appeal to Rome there to be try'd From whom my Infant-sprinkling I receiv'd Which to be Baptisme is now believ'd Jayle 'T is well confest and lo what shall I think How canst thou now refuse with Rome to drink Their Transubstantiated Cup sith thou Thy Babyes-Sprinkling from Rome must avow But let Rome judge and she will tell thee plain No Scripture owns thy Sprinkling so 't is vain Cathederal Rome doth indeed tell thee and all men so But she had beâ—ter have said nothing tho But as for me I Scriptures can produce Which shew Infant-Bapti'm th'Apostles use I other proves from Circumcision draw To prove the point in hand a divine Law Jayle If Circumcision be thy President The Papists say Baptism hath no extent To Femals for the Law only assigns For Circumcisions subjects Masculines And for thy other Texts 't is a vain crack The Learned Papists say such Texts you lack Cathederal What art thou turned Papist that thou dost Of their Confessions in this case so boast But see my Texts Matthew the twenty eight With Acts the second gives apparent light For Infant-Baptisme So the sixteenth Of th' Acts and seventh of the first Corinth Jayle Teaching precedes Baptizing Matthew saith Both Texts in th' Acts the same in substance hath That Text in Corinths speaks not of Baptizing So then sith Infants are of Catechizing Uncapable these Texts teach no such thing As that for which thou dost them hither bring Cathederal Infants are holy Ergo they must be Baptized in the name of th'Trinity All Nations are enjoyn'd to be baptiz'd Herein whole Families were not despis'd Here 's ground enough to prove Infant-Baptism And consequently to rebuke thy Schism Jayle The unbelieving Husband 's sanctifi'd Thy Logick saith Baptism must be apply'd To them Yea They are part of every Nation Ergo must be Baptized if thy fashon Oâ— arguing be good but this may shew How 't is unsound inconsequent untrue Cathederal Thou tak'st no notice of the Families Which I observ'd th'Apostles did Baptize This Allegation is unanswerable Ergo Infant-Baptism stands here most stable I challenge thee resolve this if thou can For 't is not yet resolv'd by any man Jayle The Texts are clear the same that were Baptiz'd Were first by Paul and Silas Catechiz'd 'T is said they did Believe in God also Th' Apostles for to visit them did go As they were Brethren which things consider'd Thy boasting of thy proof from hence is wither'd Cathederal Proud Jayle how i' st thou darest thus contemn The Expositions of my Learned men Who with one voyce these Texts do explicate My Pedobaptisme to vindicate Art thou grown wiser
my Common-Prayer-Book I allow That way in case of weakness But I show In the same place that dipping is God's way For Baptisme to be perform'd this day Jayle I do confess thou sayst so but behold When thou presumed for to be so bold To give an inch thy Doctors took an ell And now this weakness doth all strength expel Out of thy Church And God's way is rejected And as a foolish thing by thee neglected Cathedral No Alteration in these things I see Will be assented to by such as thee As if we must in these cold Climates go Into the Water when baptis'd But lo. The time requires the Conference should end Now therefore unto what remains descend CHAP. V. The Arg. The Minster's Consistory Court The Jayle to visit goes The Minster takes it in ill sort She should that place disclose Jayle MOngst other things whereby Christs Church doth shine We are to reckon Christian Discipline This Ornament thou wants Whence I conclude Christs Church consists not of thy multitude Nor yet of this thy gorgious Courtly Tent Because you all reject Christ's Government Cathederal What! dost ' come here to hold thy Visitation That thou beginst to make this exclamation Against my Court whose wayes thou cast not know Nor will I unto thee my secrets show Yet will I this my Government maintain ' Gainst which thou mayest strive but all in vain Jayl Well but before we try thy Discipline Let 's take a view of those brave men of thine Which are thy Officers let 's know their names Or Titles for behold their glorious Trains Seem to import they are no Fishers mates Nor yet like Paul Tent-makers sociates Cathederal These are their Titles and the first degree Arch-Bishops are the next Lord-Bishops be Attended with their Bishops Suffragans Arch-Deacons Deans and Chapters Courtezans With Iudges Surrogates and Proctors store Apparitors with very many more Jayle Arch-Bishops and Lord-Bishops what is this Did not our Saviour all such titles hiss Out of his Church when his Disciples would Have bin the chief that so they might have rul'd By Domination over those to whom Christ did intend they servants should become Cathederal Unless these Titles ' gainst plain Scripture be Thou canst not them condemn nor do I see Those Texts alledg'd which any whit oppose These Titles but 't is meant of such as those Which Papists give unto their Popes But I Have eft condemned that Supremacy Jayle Thy Titles are as much beyond the Line Of holy Writ and full as clandestine As those amongst the Papists for whilst they Make one great Pope now heed well what I say Thou makest many Popes for thy Arch-Lords Their Fancies force upon us for God's words Cathedral I thee require some Scriptures to produce Which shews my Titles to be such abuse As they prohibit otherwise thy plea In this our contest cannot mine outweigh For all things which ' mongst Papists are esteem'd Must not unlawful for that cause be deem'd Jayle Peter an Elder Elders doth command The Churches oversight to take in hand Without becoming Lords and Paul avows He preached Christ as Lord and likewise shows He preach'd himself a servant for Christ's sake To th'Church now this against thy Lords doth make Cathedral 'T is true the letter of these Scriptures do Seem to oppose Lord-Bishops but you know The Scripture hath a secret sence and can Not easily be understood now then How canst thou tell the Lordship here is meant Of those Lord-Bishops which my Church frequent Jayl The Texts must needs be meant of some that lord it In things Temporal or as thou dost word it Of Lords Spiritual But Peter doth Allow the first yea and to speak the tâ—oth Commands the Church all such as such t' obey Ergo 't is Spirit ' Lords he thrusts away Cathedral Thy major Proposition must be true Sith needs it must be meant of one of th'two Thy minor's likewise true Peter doth call The Church t' obey Lords Magistratical That then I must deny is thy Conclusion And truly why It makes for my confusion Jayl If th' Propositions both be verified Th' Conclusion can in no wise be denied Logicians say and therefore thou art one That from both Truth and Reason's so far gone As neither will thy Lordship cause to bend Till Christ the Lord his Judgments on thee send Cathedral Leave off proud Jayl thou art not yet my Judg But thou shouldst rather know thy self my Drudg Nor will I thus permit thee at this season To charge me with the want of Truth or Reason Turn then thy course unto my Discipline And do not thus my Lordship undermine Jayl Thy Discipline we must find in thy Court To which I see poor men compell'd refort To pay their Money And I also see Thy Officers as greedy of their Fee As any Lawyers And I likewise hear These Fees do make them reel with Wine Beer Cathedral Touching my Court thou shalt instructed be Ere long what they do there I 'le warrant thee And as for those who come unwillingly They 'r such as from my Laws have trod awry And I shall let such know their punishment Must peirce their purse till they be penitent Jayl Purse-penalties the Church of Christ knows none As she is such nor can it once be shown In all the Apostolical Directions In holy Writ there should be such exactions And doubtles whilst thou thus minds earthly things Paul under a most sharp reproof thee brings Cathedral Purse-penalties alone may not excuse Those that my Laws presumptuously abuse for Heresie deserves the most severe Chastisement others for to put in fear Even Confiscation 〈…〉 This crime 〈◊〉 the holy Scripture saith Jayle This iâ— a Monstrâ—â—â— Disciplinâ— foâ— you Who Gospel Laws pretend for what you doo ' Tiâ— true by 〈◊〉 Death might be inflicted On some 〈…〉 But if the Church in 〈◊〉 Should so proceed 't would now prove Persecution Cathederal Here thou 〈…〉 But I am clear from such 〈◊〉 For I no 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 I punish such 〈…〉 That I might them reduce from Heresie Or others keep in Christian purity Jayle That thou ' it a 〈…〉 Witness in part some 〈◊〉 whom thou haâ—t slain And partly some thou doâ—t at this day keep In Prison only cause they cannot sleep With thee in 〈◊〉 but the Lâ—â—d's Preceptâ— Have chosen as a Rule unto their steps Cathederal Those I 〈◊〉 and these I have slain Are such as would in Hereâ—ie remain Yet 't is not really I but ' tâ—â— the Powerâ— Which punish 〈…〉 these Maâ—â—â— of yours 'T is true 't is I adviâ—e them thus to do it And so shall still and care not who do know it Jayle So 't is my will is all the rule indeed By which thou doâ—â— thus â—idgedly proceed For from good ground it never can be shewed That thou or other ought to have imbâ—ewed Your hands in their blood who did well behave them In all things civil but to God