An ansvvere to MaSTER CARTVVRIGHT HIS LETTER FOR IOYNING with the English Churches whereunto the true copie of his sayde letter is annexed Ye are deceiued not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God Matth. 22. 29. Search the Scriptures for in them ye thinke to haue eternall life and they are they which testifie of me Iohn 5. 39. Let euery one that calleth on the Name of Christ depart from iniquitie 2 Tim. 2. 19. And these things that I say vnto you I say vnto all men watch Marke 13. 37. Imprinted at LONDON TO THE CHRISTIAN READER GRACE AND PEACE from God the Father and from the Lord Iesus Christ c. DEARELY beloued in the truth you haue in this booke an answere to an answere written vnto Master Harrison at Middleborough by Master Cartwright vpon occasion of controuersie betweene them concerning the true spouse of Christ or his ordinarie visible Churches in Englande And it is thought good to put this aunswere before the saide aunswere of Master Cartwright And although the godlywise and such as haue onely the glorie of God before their eyes and his pure Religion and seruice together with the saluation of their brethren will easily perceiue the reasons and causes yet least anye might take offence in this offence in this behalfe it is though meete to shewe some The first reason therefore is this Our corrupt nature is more prone and readie to imbrace the errour of man then the trueth of God Another cause was for that our vntowardenesse is so great that if an vntrueth be once receiued it worketh such a preiudice in the heades and mindes of men that they will heare neither God his worde neither reason or argument to the contrary be it neuer so good and effectuall A thirde cause mooued to place this answere first for that it shoulde bee an occasion vnto the Reader to vse more diligent conferring of this aunswere with the other for the better discerning and finding out of the trueth in this controuersie It is not necessarie that any man interpose his iudgement at this tyme but to attende by prayer the good euent which God will giue for the further manifestation of his trueth and abolishing of the contrary Nowe these fewe lynes are thought in this matter sufficient least it might seeme to foreiudge any trueth in either of these answeres or else by accepting of persons to foster corruption or a lye in any thing set foorth in the Name of the Lorde It is expedient therefore that the scriptures be faithfull searched by the godly Reader to see whether these thinges be euen so or not For no man that feareth God is ignorant of the doctrine of our Sauiour christ that whosoeuer breaketh the least of the commaundements of God and teacheth men so is least in the kingdom of heauen Neither yeâ— of this generall vniuersal doctrine of god his word true repentance vnfeined faith with amendment of life to be necessarie vnto saluation But it is said before these fewe things suffice Therefore the faithfull Reader is to be commended to the grace of God for his further direction in this behalfe farewell deare brother in the Lord. AN ANSVVERE TO MASTER CARTWRIGHT HIS LETTER FOR ioyning with the English Churches Whereunto the true Copie of his saide Letter is annexed AS there be alwayes both friendes and enemies to the Church of God so some doe giue their handes vnto it as friendes and some being enemies will giue it their left hande of friendshihpe to turne it cleane out of the way Howe friendly Master Cartwright is to it let vs examine by this his Letter and by the grace of God let vs trie out the trueth betwixt him and vs his letter is in many mens handes and was seene abroade vnsealed and open as if he cared not who shoulde reade it wherefore I may the more boldely answere it and the rather because the matter thereof is publike and pertaining to the Church of God It came but lately to my handes and was written as they tell me more then fiue or sixe weekes agoe wherein if he and others that prouoke him sought not to take vs tardie in the trueth and to worke vs trouble we would the lesâ—e haue regarded his letters but seeing he will needes make vs enemies to the common and ordinarie good lawes of the Realme to the Church of god in the Realme and to the peace and welfare of the common wealth Let vs answere his cauilles and for so much as we haue so small respite of time let vs shortly gather vp his vntrueths and errours and hurle them out by manifest knowen markes least any man doe beleeue them as trueth Master Cartwright doeth mooue the first question thus That the outwarde profession made by the lawes of the lande and the assemblyes of the Church helde accordingly are condened as vnlawfull this is the short saith he of M. Harrisons loÌ„ger discourse if he vse to make such shorts he is not meete to deale with short or with long Let him lappe vp his shortes in his budget and not sende them abroade in steade of our lengths or larger syse For at the first brunt he would set against vs all these enemies 1. The lawes of the lande 2. The outwarde profession by the lawes 3. The apparant Churches of Christ 4 and the lawfull assemblyes thereof First for the lawes he knewe well ynough what Lawes we meane namely certaine Popish Cannon lawes which though the Magistrates doe tollerate for a time yet the common good lawes of the lande are wholy against them Wherefore let him not deale doubly with vs as hauing our true meaning in his heart to fumble out of his mouth or to shuffle vp in his letter a contrary meaning we know that the lawes doe punish all outward grosse wickednesse or suffer it to be punished as namely Idolatrie forswearing vsurping of Lordshippe rebellion murther fleshly filthinesse theft oppression raylings grieuous slanders drunkennes c. and if there be any vice not punishable by the lawe yet the lawes doe suffer either the Church or euery housholder or gouernour to correct so it be not against lawe such as are vnder their charge So then the lawes are a wall to the Church rounde about they stande vp for it as an armed man that it may shewe it selfe openly without shame or feare For when they put downe all outwarde grosse wickednesse and will not suffer it they doe as it were scatter and driue awaye darkenesse from the Church that men may see it visible and cleare as the Sunne Likewise for the outwarde profession by the lawes Master Cartwright woulde playe at handie dandie with vs and yet not giue vs that hand which we doe choose for there is an outwarde profession after the olde Popish traditions and orders let him holde this profession in his left hande and there is a profession more syncerely by some after some better Lawes and Orders this he shoulde houlde in his
the outward Church when there is a wicked profession contrary to the doctrine of faith Againe a man may beleeue be wonne to faith by meanes of some godly brother and that before he haue outwardly ioyned him selfe to the Church so in gods secret election he is of the church yet because he hath not the outwarde profession can not be sayde to be the outwarde Church But here Master Cartwright though he dare not iustifie the blind reading Ministers yet he doeth praise them as doing some good But of this matter also it followeth afterwarde to intreate as whether he that doeth so much hurt and mischiefe can be saide to doe any good at all Likewise it is a trifling to no purpose that he sayth the Church ceaseth not when a minister faileth or wanteth for we knowe that euen two or three agreeing together in the trueth separate from wickednesse if none other will ioyne with them euen they are an outwarde and visible Church and haue this power of Christ euen to binde men on earth and to loose them on earth that they may be bound or loosed in heauen For though by persecution they be driuen into corners yet their good profession is outward and visible in it selfe and yet hidden from their enemies which are vnworthy to see it for the church may increase into thousandes and decrease also in this worlde euen to a litle householde and to foure or fiue persons For Ierusalem fell away and became as Sodome and Egypt and the Lorde did blot out the whole name and church of the Iewes and called his people by another name as it is written Isay 65. Actes 11. But in these latter dayes it is prophecied that the Church shoulde be small hidden and driuen into corners So that as in Noas time eight persons onely escaped euen so when the sonne of man shall come he shall not finde faith on the earth those dayes before his comming shall be so hard that scarce any flesh shall be saued Indeed one person will not make a church for the Church must needes be a number but where two or three are gathered together in the name of Christ there is he in the middes of them And the housholde of Philemon is named a Church Likewise the housholde of Olymphis of Aquila Priscilla and others For if they haue the power which Paul calleth the power of our Lorde Iesus Christ and doe meete together fewe or moe in the Name of Christ they are surely the Church of Christ. Therefore this doctryne is still agaynst Master Cartwright for neyther the word in the preachers mouth nor the Sacraments can make an outwarde Church except they haue the power of Christ to separate the vnworthye For Master C. confesseth that the name of a Church shall remayne though the preacher and his preaching doe cease and is wanting for a tyme. But without this power of binding that is of declaring mens wickednes and forsaking their fellowshippe to leaue them vnto Satan being open and grieuous offendours there is no name nor shewe of the church of Christ remaining If he demaunde proofe hereof the scriptures are manifest For God hath giuen this power not onely to the preachers but to all the saintes of god as appeareth by that Psalme namely By the worde of god in their mouthes to binde euen the Kings and nobles of the earth and to execute vpon them his spirituall iudgement the text followeth that this honour shall be to all the Saintes Wherefore it is not peculiar to some one or to â—ome fewe alone but it belongeth to all yea this is the heritage of all the Lordes seruants as Isaiah testifieth In deede it is true that we ought ioyntly to execute this power but if others will not or bee in bondage that they can not ioyne with vs therein then they are not the Church but the bondslaues of men For this power belongeth to euery one seuerally to forsake wicked fellowship and there is a coÌ„mandement giuen to euery one to forsake the vnfruitfull workes of darkenesse to be no companions with such to haue no fellowshippe with them to withdraw our selues from euery brother that walketh inordinately yea and to turne away from all which hauing a shew of godlinesse doe deny the power thereof For if we walke in darknes and say we haue fellowship with god we lye sayth S. Iohn and doe not truely But if we walke in the light we haue fellowship one with another otherwise that fellowship holdeth not And in Hosea commandement is giuen vnto all euen to pleade against the mother church if it fal away that as god doth forsake it so euery one also should stand against it if it become abhominable And so also all are commanded to saue them selues from a froward generation But it may be here obiected howe we answere to the place in Matth. 18 that we must complaine to the Church and then if the offender heare not the Church we must take him for a heathen and publican I grant that if the offence be priuate he must be first priuately dealt with But this proueth not that either for priuate or open offences we must waite on them for redresse which are enemies of the Church and which haue no power to binde and lose as hath the church Wherefore let not Master Cartwright accompt so much of the assemblyes he speaketh of for what is a Church without this power we spake of yea what are those assemblies which in steade of it do holde that Antichristian power of the spirituall courtes or rather are helde in bondage by it But Master Cartwright alloweth not onely those assemblies but also those vile courtes and officers and Bishoppes set ouer them to be all the Church of God For he sayeth afterwarde namely in the sixt page that the calling of the dumbe ministers whichis by them is a calling of the church and sufficient to make them ministers yea and he seemeth to allowe also their suspendings of preachers as if it were done by the Church so that both for complaint and for redresse of defaults for establishing and gathering the churches hee alloweth or tollerateth those officers and courtes to haue the power and authoritie of the church But God hath appointed no such kinde of complaintes in the Church neither such kinde of redresse nor ordering of matters First because they redresse and order matters by money Brybes Fees Ciuill penaltyes c. wherein the Church discipline ought not to meddle For the weapons of our warefare sayeth Paul are not carnall He meaneth that the Church maye not deale in matters of reformation as doeth the common wealth and this present worlde The Church can deale no further then onely by rebuke warning and exhortation out of gods worde and by forsaking casting of fellowship in grosser sinnes And therefore rightly may the word and his
not beguiled with the Names of Gods house Church and Citie he him selfe hath giuen it a name as it is written the name of that city shalbe from that day The Lord is there And in this respect also it is called in Ieremie the throne of his glorie As who say that amoÌ„g whoÌ„soeuer we see not the Lord to reigne by his gouernement discipline as it were in the throne of his kingdom them we shuld â—â—dge not to be the city church of God And though the church â—o pray that God would not cast downe the throne of his glory nor breake the conant with them yet Ieremie bringeth in those wordes as a complaint of the penitent and not to proue that the wretched sorte either helde the couenant or were the throne of God Wherefore to conclude this matter The path and way of the Lord is holy as the prophet teacheth no polluted shal passe by it there shalbe no lyon no noysome beast shall ascend by it neither shall they be founde there whereby is meant that open and grosse sinners shall not be suffred in the Church For either they shall be separate by excommunication or els all the godly shall withdraw them selues from them and hold them accursed As it is written If any man loue not the Lorde Iesus let him be had in execration yea excommunicate to death And surely they loue not the Lorde but are his enemies as was shewed before which refuse his gouernment that he can not reigne ouer them And againe it is written This is the loue of God that we keepe his commandemeÌ„ts and he that sayeth I knowe god or I loue god and keepe not his commaudements is a lyar and the trueth is not in him Not that we can keepe his commandements without all breach or offence for wee are not Donatistes as the aduersaries slaÌ„der vs that we should say we may be without sinne or that the church may be without publike offences or if there fall out some sort of grosser sinnes that therefore it should cease to be the church of God we teach no such doctrine but if in any Church such grosse sinnes bee incurable and the Church hath not power to redresse them or rebelliously refuseth to redresse them then it ceaseth to be the Church of God and so remaineth till it repent take better order And here coÌ„meth in that question to be decided whether without the discipline coÌ„manded of Christ any assembly or church may be called the church of Christ M. C. saith that for want of this discipline we giue al the english assemblies the blacke stone of condemnation Howe truely he writeth this of vs his conscience is witnes for we neuer said that all the English assemblyes doe want discipline Thogh this matter be sufficiently debated before yet let vs weigh Master Cartwrights answere H sayeth that faith in Christ is the essence being or life of the church as for discipline it is but accidental and therefore the Church of God may haue her being and life and be named the church of God without discipline what worde of God doeth he bring for all this we knowe in deede that Christ is the life and essence of the Church For except as braunches we abide in him which is the true vine we can bring foorth no fruite we are cast foorth as branches and are to be consumed with fire Christ is the resurrection and the life He is the way the trueth and the life So it is true that Christ is the life of the church as for faith it is but the hand whereby we take hold of this life As it is written he that beleeueth in the sonne hath euerlasting life and he addeth vpon it as a tryall of faith euen our obedience to the sonne and saith he that obeyeth not the sonne shall not see life but the wrath of god abideth on him Nowe it was prooued before that they which are guilty of such horrible abuses so grossely offende by their corrupt and false profession haue not this faith neither do holde Christ the foundation But see how fondly blasphemously Master Cartwright distinguiseth He will haue a dead Christ or an Idol christ to be the life of the church For he will ioyne the church to Christ without the discipline and gouernement of Christ. He putteth asunder the church and the discipline of Christ and so must â—eedes sunder Christ from his owne discipline or gouernement Nowe Paul calleth this discipline the power of our Lorde Iesus christ So if wee seuer christ and his power what is he but a dead christ Also by his discipline and gouernement he hath ouer vs he is our king as againe it is written the scepter of thy kingdome is a scepter of righteousnesse So if we seuer christ and his discipline rule and gouernement what is he but an Idol christ If Master Cartwright say that by the scepter there is meant nothing else but the power of the worde of God I graunt it as Paul saith I will knowe not the speach or wordes of these men but the power For the kingdome of God is not in worde but in power saith he and in the psalme The Lorde shall sende the rodde of this power out of Zion And the weapons of our warrefare are mighty through God as againe he writeth So then if the power of the word to bynde lose to remit or refaine mens sinnes to promise lyfe and to rebuke and giue ouer to execration be taken from Christ or the church of Christ what remaineth but an Idol or counterfet christ an Idol or counterfet church Thus while M C. wil haue faith in christ to be the life of the church without discipline he doth leaue christ himselfe without life as one that is dead or turned into an Idol yet further he proceedeth in his absurdities blasphemies saith that fayth only is the essence being or life of the church and that besides faith nothing is necessary to the very essence and being of the church Thus be like children which yet through want of discretion can not haue faith shall be without the essence life of the church How corrupt doctrine this is I neede not heere stand on it If he say that by the faith of the pareÌ„ts they haue life esseÌ„ce in the church the scripture is against him For by the promise the couenant made to the righteous to their seed are their childreÌ„ reckoned in the church not by their faith Therefore the faythful are called by Paul the children of promise For we are sayth he after the maner of Isaac children of the promise and againe to the Romans the children of the promise are counted for the true seede of Abraham But that by any mans faith his children or others should haue life essence in the church is the same false doctrine we refuted
sayth Master Cartwright if the Church doe call such a one is it his sinne onely sayth he and not theyrs that receaue him And the prophets sayth he doe not lay it to the peoples charge though they communicate with such Doe they not indeede doth not this prophet Micha laye it to theyr charge doth not also Zecharie shewe how vnlawfull it was to communicate with false prophets where he sayth that when any false prophet shall yet prophecie his father and his mother that begate him shall saye vnto him Thou shalt not liue For thou hast spoken lyes in the name of the Lorde and his father and his mother that begate him shall thrust him through when hee prophecieth But the trueth of this matter I haue prooued before Let vs further examine his wise reasons He confesseth that if by communicating with him we doe make him minister then we are guilty of his wickednes But we make him not minister sayth he though we communicate with him But I demaunde should we haue such ministers if no parishioner nor other did communicate with them Woulde there be any magistrates if there were no subiectes to bee vnder theyr guiding or any master if there were no seruants So then as the hauing of seruants and subiects to coÌ„municate in the same houshold or kingdom doth make masters and magistrates so to haue parishioners to communicate with such ministers doth make them such ministers and also establish their ministerie If Master Cartwright were not voide of common reason in this matter he would neuer affirme such absurdities But before he graunted as much in effect that the church which receiueth and calleth a minister doeth especially make him minister and therefore herein he is contrary to him selfe And therefore it is written that the congregation of the people made SalomoÌ„ king and Zadok high priest Indeede if the false prophets or reading ministers doe runne of them selues onely and were not called nor receiued of any neither had any office nor ministerie in the Church then the deuill onely might be said to make them ministers but the parishioners receiuing them for their ministers and taking them to be called to that office by the Church as Master Cartwright teacheth vs and yeelding them selues to be their flocke and charge I say those parishioners together with the diuel and his officers do make them ministers As for partaking with the impietie of the minister we haue prooued before that if anye wickednes be open and the church will not redresse it it is guiltie of the wickednes committed neither ought it to alleadge that it can not redresse it For it hath the power of Christ to iudge those that are within those strong weapons of the spirituall warrefare which can cut off all wicked disorders in the church Otherwise as we haue shewed it is not the church of God Paul sheweth that except we purge out the olde leauen we can not be a newe lumpe to the Lord neither keepe the Lordes feastes he sheweth his meaning in that place that they suffering such a grosse offender amongest them were guiltie of his wickednesse and coulde not partake in the sacraments but it must needes be done with the leauen of wickednesse and not with the vnleauened bread of sinceritie and trueth And therefore in the next epistle it is shewed that they all repented and sorrowed as being guiltie of his sinne whom they had no sooner excommunicate And why was king Hezekiah afraide and all the people For the ceremoniall vncleannes of some but onely that they feared least they all were polluted thereby and the Passeouer not accepted And therefore that vncleannesse which the Lawe also did suffer and which was without sinne as we haue shewed was openly confessed and healed by prayer least the keeping of that feast should be wholly vncleane Howe much more then shal open grosse wickednesse when it breaketh forth in the Church make them all polluted and guiltie thereof if they refuse and will not redresse it Finally his similitude of receiuing goods or landes of a mans father being a murtherer is vaine For the sacraments which the reading ministers doe geue vs are neyther his sacraments neyther the Lords as we prooued before but are polluted pledges of a wicked communion Againe wee may not receiue golde of a thiefe to iustifie his thieuerie And wee haue shewed that such ministers are theeues and robbers and can not as Fathers giue vs the Lordes holye thinges Likewise is that answered of communicating with adulterers whome we can not as he saith auoide For if their sinne be open and prooued then both all the Church and euery one of the Church ought and may auoyde them I meane their fellowship in the sacraments If their sinne be secret and not prooued by witnesses then the question is not of them FINIS An ANSVVERE VNTO A LETTER OF MASTER HARRISONS BY MASTER CARTwright being at Middleborough GRACE and peace c. Beloued for so much as I left you the choyce for the first conference whether you would haue it in writing or by speech of mouth I attended some dayes for your answere of that matter which because it was not returned I esteemed that you held you still to the request of your letters which was to receaue some thing from me by writing For answere therefore so it is that your letters affected me diuersly For where your first page had raysed me vnto some hope for the reuniting of your selfe with the rest of your company vnto vs from whome you haue thought good to sunder your selues The second page which layeth forth the conditions of our peace did cast me and as it were beate me from it againe howbeit the mercy of God vpholding me in some good hope of profiting you or receauing some profite from you I thought to cut out this time out of my weightiest and most necessary busines wherein I might gieue you that contentment which the Lord hath inhabled my hand vnto Vnto you not vnwilling to come vnto vs the passage as it seemeth is stopped in diuers respectes The short whereof is the receauing without publique repentauâ—ce of those which come from the Churches of England where because in the outwarde profession that the lawes of that lande doe iustifie there appeares vnto you no lawfull assemblies of the Churche of Christ your feare is least in vniting your selues with such you shoulde be vnequally yoked and made fellowe members of some other body then of that whereof Christ Iesus is the head First therefore if it bee shewed that the ordinary assemblyes of those which professe the Gospel in Englande be the Churches of Christ it seemeth that the way will bee paued and plained for mutuall entercourse betweene vs thus therfore it seemeth it may be perfourmed those assemblyes which haue Christ for their head and the same also for their foundation are Gods churches such are the assemblyes of Englande therefore c. the
right hande wherefore then doeth hee reach vs that in his right hande as taking it vnlawfull which we choose as lawfull If he saye that wee condemne that ordinarie abused and corrupt profession of the most I aunswere that the Lawes doe also the same For the common Lawes are against the cannon Lawes in many hundreth poyntes one giueth checke to the other as two Dames at variance in one house the cannon is as fire in the house to burne it the common is as water powring downe to quenche it The Popishe courtes esteeme all sortes of christians for churches of Christ much like those harlots that woulde haue many children though it were by fornication that they myght rule ouer many but the Common wealth reiecteth her children as beyng children of Death euen for smaller Theftes Felonyes Roginges and Wanderinges without honest Trades and laboures as for the right corrections of Adulteryes those Whoorish courtes haue taken so much vpon them that the Ciuill Magistrates coulde not so well see to it before this time But nowe euen for this matter they haue giuen a great checke to the cannon Officers Also for persecuting the brethren and sundry worthye men their authoritie and cannon power hath receiued a great blowe and wounde If there be contrary lawes one against another as through change of tymes variaunce of people and other necessities it may fall out yet through fauour and helpe of good Magistrates the lawe shall still be with the Church and not against it As for the Maiestracie of Byshops there is no lawe to warrant it but only her Maiesties permission likewise for the common forme of seruice and prayers there is exception by the lawe and it is set downe also in the booke of Common prayer that the prayers may be changed intermitted and left off by occasions as when the Minister is to preach or applye him selfe to his studie for preaching Further whereas the lawe doeth binde vs to come to the church it doth well for no man ought to refuse the Church of God yet if when we come to the church we finde there an vnlawfull minister and a wicked confusion of all sortes of people the fault is not nowe in the law but in the Byshoppes which place such ministers and in their spirituall courtes which are authours of such confusion for the Lawe commaundeth that the Minister should be Doctus and Clericus which wordes doe require learning sufficient and godlinesse meete for a cleargie man otherwise howe shoulde he be Clericus that is one of the Lordes inheritance But the Bishops count him learned if he can but reade onely and answere to a catechisme as doe children wherefore good Magistrates will execute the lawe according to the true meaning and not according to the extremitie of the wordes and if they see to it that men shall come to Church they will first see that the church be better ordered that men may come with comforte and not with heart burning to their conscience Also for discipline in gathering the worthie from the vnworthy the lawe appointeth it and giueth leaue to make exception both in publique iudgement and in churches against vnworthye persons as against Drunkennesse fightings murther adulteryes stealth slaunders c. and that before the Constables Iustices of Peace Iudges and Iustices of Assises and yet also doe giue libertie to the Church to vse their owne discipline But eyther the Popes cannon lawes and his officers doe quite ouerthrowe it or the Ministers are so seruile and foolish that they can not or dare not execute it It were too long to rehearse what libertie the lawes do yeelde to vs and what outwarde profession there is by the lawes but thus we conclude that seeing very many of the Bishops doings and their officers are vnlawfull and yet very vsually and ordinarily professed helde and practised we must needes say that such an ordinary profession is vnlawfull Nowe followeth the chiefest and greatest matter in controuersie namely Whether the ordinarie assemblies of the professors in Englande be the Churches of Christ. A part of this question he must make as he doeth the vsuall outward profession What Master Harrison did write in his letter and vpon what wordes Master C. doeth gather this question I can not tell for I neuer sawe Master Harrisons letter but I hope Master H. did not condemne any assemblyes but abused assemblies neither any professors but false professors wherefore let him take his right meaning namely The ordinarie abused assemblyes of false professors But he will admit no such distinction for belike he will haue no such assemblyes yet in a time of better reformation then is now in Englande as in the dayes of King Iosiah the Lord witnesseth that Iudah had not returned vnto him with their whole heart but faynedly If they then were false professors whose hypocrisie was in their hearts why should not they be false professors which doe shewe foorth in practise a false profession and that chiefely in their assemblyes but whatsoeuer false profession they haue and howe grosse soeuer their abuses be Master Cartwright will prooue them to bee churches of Christ. But goe to let vs examine his prooâ—es those assemblyes haue Christ for their head and foundation for saith hee they beleeue in Christ and haue the spirite of Christ therefore they are the churches of Christ. Nowe to prooue that they beleeue he bringeth in their profession so that all Master Cartwrights arguments falleth from one to one till it come to nothing at all for from the head and foundation of the church he descendeth to the spirite and to faith and so at last to the outwarde profession Nowe the outwarde profession must chiefely be shewed and iustified by the lawfull vsing of publique assemblyes If they then be so shamefully abused by meanes of the bishoppes and their officers then his proofe of the outward profession also falleth to the ground Thus of necessitie he must iustifie many grosse corruptions both in the assemblyes in sundry their practises and customes or else laye by his proofe as vntrue But what neede hee haue fetched about and made suche adoo touching faith and the spirite and the head and the foundation of the Church and then to haue no other proofe but the question to prooue the question For the question is whether the assemblyes bee lawfull outwarde Churches being helde according to so corrupt profession or whether the outwarde profession of the false professours standing as it doeth the assemblyes that are according bee lawfull or no Thus he prooueth idem per idem it is so because it is so it shall bee so because it shall bee so But marke his turning and shifting to and fro in this matter For from the outward church and the outwarde profession he leapeth and fleeth to the spirite and faith which are inwarde and from the inwarde graces he returneth to the outwarde profession Thus as one that is hunted with his enemie within he runneth out
and being in daunger without he runneth in for by faith which is inwarde and the spirite that is inwarde hee woulde iustifie an outwarde churche Againe by an outwarde false and corrupt profession he will iustifie the inwarde spirite and faith of professours to bee syncere Thus with turning and returning to and fro he woulde establishe his errour but hee doeth wearie him selfe in vaine Nowe as his dealing herein is ridiculous so hee increaseth it vnto a shamelesse and blasphemous doctrine For he sayeth that there being but one onely true Christian in a church or congregation and all the rest wicked yea and so wicked that they haue but a bare profession in worde onely without any good workes they shoulde all be counted the church of God for that one mans cause I maruaile howe his penne coulde droppe downe such poyson and he not smell the stinch thereof as he wrote it For by this doctrine euery faithfull christian shall bee aboue Christ. For Master Cartwright doeth giue them power to loose those on earth which God doeth binde in heauen and this power Christ neuer had For if the faith of one or a fewe beleeuers in an assembly be of force to make them all the Church though the rest be grosse offendours then neede they to bynde none in earth And why shoulde Saint Paule alleadge this power of our Lorde Iesus Christ if all may bee taken for the Church by the faith of some For Master Cartwright will giue vs a contrary power namely to reckon all for the churche But will you steale murther commit adulterie and sweare falsely c. sayeth the Lorde and come and stande before me in this house whereupon my Name is called and say We are deliuered though wee haue done all these abominations If Master Cartwright shoulde answere this question we shoulde heare those lying wordes for so the Prophet tearmeth them namely The Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde allis the Temple and Church of god But a denne of thieues is not the house and Temple of God And if the faith of fewe will make many wretches to be the church then the vnfaithfulnes of many shoulde be of force to make them all no Church But as my wickednesse condemneth no man but my selfe except they partake with me in my wickednes so my faith iustifieth no man to be of the church except they hold with me an outward good profeâ—sion according to faith For shew me thy faith by thy works saith S. Iam. 2 as who say he would not beleue there were faith if he saw not the works of faith And Paul ioyneth the beleefe of the heart and confession of the mouth both together as needeful vnto righteousnes saluation and by the confession of the mouth he meaneth al outward profession agreeing to faith because the professioÌ„ by mouth is chiefest He can not turne his words as if he spake of one truly faithful and all the rest secret hypocrites for he speaketh of the outward profession of the outward works and of the outward church granteth also that there are many outward grosse abuses further he nameth that in wordes only they hold the true faith as who say be the deeds neuer so abhominable yet for that faithful mans sake they are al to be called one church with him If Master Cartwright had sayde cleane contrary he had spoken more truely namely that if among many good liuers one wicked man were founde as a mâ—rtherer an idolater or an adulterer and the rest become so negligent or wilfull or are helde in such spirituall bondage that any one such open and manifest offence is incurable then the couenant is broken and disanulled with them all till they repent and redresse such wickednesse Proofe there is by the 7. of Ioshua the 13. of Deuteronomie the 9. of Ezra the 20. of Iudges the 3. of Ieremie and 1. verse By the punishment of the whole land for Sauls offence 2. Samuel 21. By the ceremonies of leprosies Of touching vncleane things By the leauen named of Paul that leaueneth the whole luÌ„pe 1. Cor. 5. by sundry other places Wherefore this doctrine of his as it maketh for the Pope that a whole wretched multitude may be the Church and depende on one man cleane ouerthroweth the discipline of the church so it is so contrary to God and all godlinesse that I wonder anye man shoulde haue the face to auouche it If M. C. say that hee meaneth not a profession altogether corrupted but a good profession in other dueties though that bee nought which iustifieth such abuses in assemblies I maruaile howe he dare pronounce it an apparant sanctification or an holy profession in other dueties where there is so corrupt and polluted a profession in publique assemblyes Doth not the Prophet teach vs That that man can haue no name of a righteous iust and holy man which offendeth in any one grose sinne If he sinne in any one of these thinges saith the Prophet though he doe â—ot all these thinges he is a wicked man all the righteousnesse which he hath done shall not be mentioned but his wickednesse shall be vpon him And if it be true that Iames saith cap. â— 26. that not to refraine a mans tongue is to proue his religion vaine then to haue a filthie polluted profession in publique assemblies is to make all other profession filthy and polluted And so reasoneth the Prophet Haggi That as any holy meate was made vnholy and vncleane if a polluted person did but touch it or the skirt of a mans garment did but touch it so much more vncleane was that people and nation and all their holy exercises and sacrifices and all the workes of their handes becuase they polluted them selues but in one thing namely in slacking and fearing to builde the outwarde Temple which was but a figure of the outwarde Church of god at this day But we come to another of Master Cartwrights proofes which hee giueth thus They haue the couenaunts of the churches of god namely the spirit and the worde of god put in their mouthes therefore they are the Churches of god We doe not denie but that there are sundry churches of god but the question is of a corrupt profession by Popish Lawes and of vnlawfull assemblyes made thereby But whatsoeuer corruption there is as he granteth diuers yet they haue the couenant saith he of the spirite and the worde of god in their mouthes So without shame he abuseth that place in Isaiah 59 For he leaueth out one part of the couenant which is That the Lorde will come vnto Zion and to those that turne from iniquitie in Iacob and with them will hee make his couenant wherefore the worde is not the couenant to establish a Church except it reigne and rule in the Church to subdue it in obedience to the Lorde for the Lorde maketh no couenant but with
Spirituall graces be called the weapons of our warfare Also in the church there can bee no recompence made for sinne by money For the sinner is the murtherer of his owne soule And therfore the law of god is that for murther or killing any there caÌ„ be no recoÌ„pence made saue only by the death of the maslayer him selfe or the high Priest which figured thus much that except we see in any transgressour open repentance and faith in the death of Christ we are to iudge him still dead in his sinne and that money can not make him to liue nor redresse his wickednesse And the officers that take money in such a case doe euen eate vp the sinne of the people as it is written and lift vp their mindes in their iniquitie Also because the Iudges and officers of the court doe wrest Gods Lawe by their Popish cannon Lawe and respect persons and take rewarde which is forbidden in Deuteronomie and by their profession they must needes doe so or else they can not holde their office howe shal any make complaint vnto them for Church matters which can be counted none of the church And seeing Christ hath commanded to complaine to the Church against the sinner howe shall Christs ordinance be broken by complaining vnto such wretches Furthermore seeing the Scripture sheweth that the church hath nothing to doe to iudge those which are without how shal any complaine of such a number of wicked men as neuer were worthie to be couÌ„ted the church Againe seeing no godly man may seeke iudgement vnder the vniust as Paul sheweth if he haue a matter against a brother why shoulde we seeke vnto such for iudgement Further the rebuke and reforming of a brother ought not to be delayed till the time of keeping their courtes For we knowe perfectly saith Paul that the day of the Lorde shall come as a thiefe in the night and as he that sinneth ought not to delay his repentance and promise safety to him selfe least sudden destruction come so he that seeth his brother sinne ought to hast his repentance and reformation For thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart sayeth the Scripture but thou shalt plainely rebuke thy neighbour and not suffer sinne vpon him And the Corinthians are sharpely rebuked of negligence because they hasted not to cast out of the Church the incestuous person and likewise because they made too long delaye in receiuing him againe being penitent Againe because those cannon officers are straungers neither knowen to the Churches not dwelling among them no maruaile though Christ say that his sheepe will not followe nor seeke to strangers but will flee from them Moreouer Because they bring the Churches into bondage as it is written because they deuoure because they take their goods because they exalt them selues and as it were smite the people on the face and cast them them in prison they do all these things besides the church gouernment and therefore ought to be reiected and in no case to be uffered Thus it is manifest by the worde of God that such proude prelates and Antichristian vsurpers haue no authoritie nor power of the church neither is their suspendings to be counted suspensions by the church nor their calling of Ministers a calling by the Churche Nay surely the least in the kingdome of God shalbe able by the worde of God in their mouthes to plucke vp and roote out such plantes if none other will ioyne with them I meane they shall pronounce them by the worde of god to be abhominable haue no felowship with theÌ„ in the church so to theÌ„ they are vtterly plucked out of the Church For they are kings and priests vnder Christ to execute the lords gouernement against such and therefore they ought not to loose their right which is euen their heritage and glorie Isaiah 54. or rather the glorie or kingdome of god euen the keyes of the kingdome of heauen to binde and loose Mat. 18. The power of Christ Iesus to deliuer vp the wicked to Satan 1. Corinth 5. The scepter of his worde for rebuke doctrine exhortation promising life denouncing iudgement For this is a right scepter which subdueth the people vnder vs and the nations vnder our feete Psalme 45. He alleadgeth another proofe by peraduenture For he guesseth that peraduenture we will say it were better for an assembly to haue no minister at all then to haue a blinde reading minister And then he reasoneth thus that hauing none at all but yesterday they are the church or may be the church then hauing a dumbe minister to day they are still the Church of god and can not so suddenly be made the synagogue of Satan This is a slender proofe and borowed by imagination for we make not the minister whether duÌ„be or not dumbe to be the essence substance or life of the outward Church but the keeping of the couenant by the outwarde discipline and gouernement thereof And the Lorde callâ—th the keeping of the couenant by this discipline his staffe of beautie as appeareth in Zecharie which being broken he disanulleth his couenant with the people and so they become the sheepe of slaughter For he saith I will not feede you that that dyeth let it dye and that that perisheth let it perish and let the remnant eate euery one the flesh of neighbour Likewise in Iere. Ezek. as the breaking of the couenant is set downe to be the death and perishing of the church people of God so the keeping thereof by better discipline and gouernement was the life and renuing of the Church Why then shoulde Master Cartwright reason so fondly as though they that helde the couenant to day might not breake it to morowe and as though any grosse wickednesse committed of all were not the breaking of the couenant by all Did not the people pleade truely against Reuben and God that if they rebelled to daye against the Lorde euen to morrowe the Lorde woulde be wroth with all the Congregation of Israel And they alleadge further that for Achans sinne wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel Howe suddenly and quickely was this sinne committed and howe soone was the Lorde prouoked euen to forsake all the congregation and to be with them no more except they destroyed the excommunicate from among them for so are the wordes of the Lorde him selfe Nowe what was that sinne which Israel calleth rebellion in Reuben and God both against the Lorde and against the rest of Israel And what was the sinne of Achan Surely they thought that the Reubenites and Gadites had broken that commandement which the Lorde had giuen them namely that they should not offer their burnt offerings in euery place which they liked but only in the place which the Lorde had chosen to put his name there Now who knoweth not but that that place of
with it All which indgements doe teach the Church at this day true iudgement namely to set it selfe both against small against great companyes if they withstande or refuse the true discipline of the church For Ieremie saith of him selfe that he was as a contentious man and a man that did striue with the whole earth euery one did curse him his owne familiars watched for his halting as he saith in another place he was in derision daily and euery one mocked him for he called thē al an assembly of rebels priuate famillar felloshippe he brake off with them as was shewed before and openly he came not amongest them but only to proclaime their sinnes and preach vengeance against them If it bee then asked whether Ieremie did condemne them al as none of the church and people of God let Ieremie him selfe answere it for indeede by their vsuall and common profession and trade of life they shewed not them selues to be the people and Church of god For as it is written both the great men and rulers and also the inferiour and poorer people had all together broken the yoke and burst the bandes In the streetes of Ierusalem and in the open places there could not a man be fonnde that did execute iudgement and sought the trueth that the Lord might spare the citie And he sayeth in another place They are all rebellious traytours they are brasse and yron they are all destroyers they shall call them reprobate siluer because the Lorde hath reiected them From the least of them euen to the greatest of them euery one is giuen vnto couetousnesse and from the Prophet euen vnto the Priest they all deale falsely They are all vnto me saith the Lorde againe as Sodome and the inhabitants thereof as the people of Gomorrah yet I doe not doubt but that there was the Church and children of God amongest them For Ieremie him selfe and Barucke was with them for Isaiah witnesseth that when iudgement was turned backewarde and iustice stoode a farre off so that all trueth and equitie failed yet I say there were some that refrained from euill and were made a pray to the rest In deede openly there was none to reforme the church of all his children there was none that tooke her by the hande to bring her into the way For the Lorde sought for a man among them that shoulde make the hedge and stande in the gappe before him for the land that he should not destroy it but he found none Yet there were those that had a marke on their foreheades as mourning and crying for all the abominations that were committed And if it be asked whether these were a visible church of God it is answered by Ezekiel in another place that among the heathen and in the countreyes where the Lorde did scattere them he was as a litle Sanctuarie vnto them whereby is meant that though they wanted the visible signe of the tēple and Sanctuarie at Ierusalem yet their holy conuersation shoulde shewe the Lord to be among them and that the Lorde would iudge betweene sheepe and sheepe betweene the rammes and the goates It is manifest that the Synagogogues of the Iewes in Antiochia and Ephesus were the churches of God yet when Christ was preached vnto thē and they withstoode Paul and Barnabas did Paul or Barnabas stay for the consent of the most part to cast them off Did they not foorthwith separate the disciples and gather the church apart from thē yea will M C. say for they were worthy to be cast off seeing they refused Christ. Then belike it is true that one man or a fewe persons may cast off whole churches for some greater sinnes and offences How then is it true which M. C. saith that one man being founde iudged to deserue separation should not be separate except the most part do consent He wil say peraduēture that he excepteth idolaters apostates frō the Lord. why then did he giue a generall rule without naming such exceptiōs yet Christ for all disobedience in refusing any message of God doth giue cōmandement euen to all and euery one of his messengers to cast off whole cities and churches as being in a worse case then Sodome and Gomorrha For if they receiue you not sayeth he nor heare your wordes when ye depart out of that house or that citie shake off the dust of your feete against them He will answere that their sinne also of not receiuing the messengers of Christ was the sinne of Apostacie And is not this a message from Christ when one or a fewe persons doe iustly rebuke the congregation for ouerthrowing the Lordes discipline and treading his scepter vnder foote and is not his scepter cast downe and his kingdome polluted when he which is manifestly knowen and prooued to deserue separation can not be cast out But againe he will say that those cities and churches were not cast off for refusing the Lordes messengers but for refusing such a message as they brought namely that the Christ and Messiah was nowe come in the flesh Surely til after the death of Christ they had no such message For Christ straightly charged his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Iesus the Christ meaning that till his death and rising againe it is not meete that that doctrine shoulde be blased abroade but it was sufficient for that time if they generally beleeued in the Messiah as the Iewes also did and refused him not when he shoulde be preached more clearely yet long before his death was the commandement giuen concerning those houses or cities which shoulde refuse his messengers yet in deede it is true that they which refuse his discipline and gouernement do also refuse Christ him selfe and so it is the sinne of apostacie For so it is written Those mine enemies which woulde not that I shoulde reigne oner them bring hither and slay them before me But hereto they will answere that yet till iudgement was executed by the Lorde him selfe they were called his Citizens for so the text sayeth that his Citizens hated him and sent an ambassage after him saying we wil not haue this man to reigne ouer vs. But doe they not knowe that they are called his Citizens because they should haue bene so and were not but became his enemies Indeede they were Citizens in name only but not in deed So Ierusalem in name was called the citie of God yet in deede it became that great Citie as it is written which spiritually is called Sodome and Aegypt where our Lorde also was crucified The Iewes were planted a noble vine as Ieremie witnesseth and Isaiah sayeth that the vineyard of the Lorde of Hostes was the house of Israel and the men of Iudah were sometymes his pleasant plant but nowe they are turned vnto me sayeth the Lorde into the plantes of a strange vine yea that we be
And for this purpose there are appointed these other partes of discipline namely that the Church doe iudge those which are within for it hath nothing to doe saith Paul to iudge those that are without The discipline of the church poceedeth against the brethreÌ„ that offend as was shewed before not agaynst scorners or careles worldlings For the lord doth now take vs of the gentiles for priests leuites as it is written and as wee may not bring into the lords sanctuary strangers vncircamcised in heart to pollute his house that is wicked wretches which haue not the lords couenÌ„at may not be receiued into fellowship of the church so those that are within being fallen to transgression they shal iudge according to my iudgements saith the Lord and they shall keepe my lawes and my statutes in all my assemblies For there is a particular iudging dealing against any in the church as by particular rebuke pronouncing accuâ—sed him that grossely offendeth there is a general iudging of any without the church For it is written that we shal iudge the angels And euery nation that shall rise vp in iudgement against the church shal it condemne this iudging is no part of the particular iudging we speak of And here come in other parts of discipline to be spoken of namely for priuate rebuke of the brethren that priuately offend for open rebuke of open sinnes for casting off forsaking felowship brotherhood with grosse open offenders These partes of discipline although they are prooued made manifest before yet because M C. saith that some part of discipline may bee wanting let vs see which of them may be wanting and the church notwithstanding haue the essence and name of the church First Christ hath gieun power to euery christian to reteyne the sinnes of euery brother whom he knoweth to trespasse against him not to forgiue hym except he see him repeÌ„ So that if any person want this power he is not to be counted a christian And this power reacheth so far not only for open but euen for priuate offences to iudge take any man for a heathen a publican if he wil not be reformed Now this liberty power euery christian must hold or els he is the seruaÌ„t of meÌ„ not of christ If then a particular christian cannot want it how shal the whole church be without it yet be named the church of christ Euery particular christiaÌ„ is a king a priest vnto god a king because he holdeth the scepter of gods word to iudge the offeÌ„ders a priest because in euery place he offreth incense and a pure offring to the name of the Lord as it is Malachy So theÌ„ he is vtterly without the kingdoÌ„ priesthod of christ if that liberty be denied him I mean of iudging rebuking the particular offenders forsaking their fellowship if they wil not be reformed Howe much more shall the Church be without this kingdoÌ„ priesthod of christ so without christ hymself if it want this libertie power Likewise as we shewed before euery christian hath power seuerally to forsake wicked fellowship not to coÌ„pany together with wicked brethreÌ„ And as by this liberty power they vphold their kingdoÌ„ in Christ so without it both they and the whole church do lose their interest in the priesthood kingdom of Christ and so are none of his church For they haue not the keyes of the kingdom of heaueÌ„ to bind lose to reteine or remit mens sinnes and therefore what right can they haue in the kingdom of christ If they cannot openly particularly rebuke how shall they openly particularly binde and if they caÌ„not openly particularly cast out or excoÌ„municate the grosser offender how shal they bind For being still reteined as brethreÌ„ in the church how shall they pronounce them to be bouÌ„d in heaueÌ„ How shall they shut the gates of heauen against those whom still they keepe in the bosome of the church If M. C. say that a general rebuke iudging of the wicked is a binding let him knowe that the Church hath more liberty right particularly to iudge those which are within then generally to iudge those that are without And safely if it haue not power to iudge those which are within it hath no power of iudging at all So that it is manifest that no part of church discipline can be wanting but the church doth straightway go to mine thereby For a coÌ„fused gathering of al together was proued to be no church of God Likewise if the couenant of the church the sacraments thereof be broken and disanulled Master C. graunteth that there is no church and nowe it is shewed that without that power of rebuking and iudging those which are within and of excomunicating those that deserue it there can be no church of God As for that his fonde answere that for some default in preaching and some default in obedience the discipline of the church may fayle and yet be the church let him knowe that though some preacher or other person offende yet doeth not therefore the discipline of the church fayle or want except the church be negligent or wilfully refuse to redresse such offences or is brought into bondage that it can not redresse them And yet also the question is not of some weakenes and failing in discipline but a full want and ouerthrowe either of the whole or of some parte thereof Wherefore that proofe they alleadgeby the Corinthians that they wanted discipline yet were the church of God is false very vaine For they wanted it not but were negligent therein They were not vnder the bondage of a popish discipline power which denyed and withhelde the Lordes discipline Nowe negligence was a fault in them yet not an vtter ouerthrowe and failing of discipline For being rebuked of Paul they mended this negligence in so much that their repentance and sorowe for their negligence wrought a great care in them yea as the text saith a clearing of themlselues an indignation a feare a great desire a zeale a punishing of themselues Likewise for their abuses in the Sacrament of the Supper Paul condemneth euen the Supper and sayeth This is not to eate the Lordes Supper And for abusing that Sacrament many of them were plagued of God and dyed So that although for a tyme they turned the Sacrament to be a iudgement against theÌ„ the discipline of the church did fayle yet was it not therefore quite ouerthroweÌ„ debarred from theÌ„ Also whereas some beleeued not the resurrection froÌ„ the dead it was the ignorance of those which had newely imbraced the Christian profession and not the ouerthrowe of the church discipline And here is that answered which M. C. alledgeth that Paul calleth the churches of God by the title of
the faythfull and Sayntes For though some fall away vnto wickednesse yet by the discipline of the Church the rest doe remaine as Saintes And that tytle of Saintes is agaynst Master Cartwright For if they be Sayntes and holy howe shall they shewe forth a wicked and vnholy profession and still be called the Sayntes and Church of God Though Paul wrote his Epistle to the Church and Sayntes at Corinth yet doeth he not thereby call the incestuous person or other grosse sinners the members or parts of that Church But in the fifth Chapter he calleth the incestuous person a wicked man and not a Saynt As for his tytle of the faythfull he can not shewe that Paul vseth it without addition of other wordes to shewe the good profession of that fayth as in that place To the Sayntes fayeth Paul at Ephesus and to the faithfull And though the tytle of the faythfull shoulde be vsed alone yet must we vnderstande their fayth shewed by an outwarde good profession Here also may that place be aunswered which they alleadge out of Paul Let a man examine himselfe and againe to the Romans Let vs not therefore iudge one another any more but they abuse these places as if Paul meant that we were not to iudge men by their fruites or the Church had not power to iudge those that sinne in the Church for these thinges wee haue prooued before but by iudging in that place wee must vnderstande a rash iudging or condemning of any for those deedes or workes they doe whereof they can giue a good and probable reason Likewise whereas Christ sayeth Iudge not that ye be not iudged he meaneth that wee must iudge or condemne no brethren as reprobates or rashly condemne that in them which is no fault at all or iudge euery man to be worse then our selues but rather we must iudge our selues to bee the chiefe sinners of all and yet also keepe the Lordes discipline of iudging and rebuking the wicked without spot and vnblameable Likewise to examine our selues that is our owne heartes and consciences belongeth to our selues but wee are not thereby forbidden to examine the outwarde abuses and faultes of others For it is written that we are to consider one another Also to marke others diligently to note others that wee looke not euery man on his owne thinges but euery man also on the things of other men Here also is that question answered of the Dutch Churches in hygh Germany which holde the errour of transubstantiation For indeede I iudge it to be an error and not an heresie except they obstinately pursue it with other grosse absurdities as doe some heretikes or with sworde and bloodshed as doe the Papistes and then without question they are not the Church of Christ but remaine in the state of condemnation tyll they repent As for those of our profession which are withhelde from the vse of the Lordes Supper that question followeth afterwarde to be answered and doeth nothing at all make against vs. Likewyse that matter of neglecting circumcision and the Passeouer the space of fourtie yeeres he shamefully abuseth For there was no negligence but a necessitie and commandement of omitting For that seruice of the passeouer was not to be kept after their comming out of Egypt saue at some special charge from the Lord as Nom 9. 2. till they came into the land of Canaan as appeareth in Exo 12. 25. and other places And it figured also their hasting both out of Aegypt and thorowe the wildernesse and therefore were they not to keepe it ordinarily euery yeere till they came to the lande of their rest And for this cause also was circumcision omited For being circuÌ„cised they were fore certaine dayes by reason whereof if they had bene circumcised they could not haue iourneyed after the cloud tabernacle So a necessitie was laid vpon theÌ„ For they were to iourney with the cloud and tabernacle as in Nombers Whether the cloude vpon the tabernacle was taken vp by day or by night All their iournâ—â—ing was by the commandement of the Lorde Now let vs come to other of his profes A city saith he may be a citie though it haue not the walles of a citie And so he reasoneth that Ierusalem was the Citie of the great King before Neheâ—â—â—h had builded the walles whereupon he concludeth that a Church may be the church of God though it want discipline Howe greatly here againe doeth M C. deceiue him selfe and others He knoweth that the Temple did figure out and signifie the church of God as well as the citie Ierusalem Nowe as the Temple was noe Temple of God but a ruinous heape without the walles of the temple and the foundation of the walles so the citie Ierusalem was said to lye waste as no citie of God till the walles were builded and the gates reared vp If he require proofe of both these we shewe him the Scripture For in the Psalme in Isaiah and in Matthewe Christ is set downe to be the sanctuarie and head corner stone in the building And in the Reuelation the twelue Apostles are called the twelue foundations of the wall of the holy citie and the gates the twelue trybes of Israel meaning all the nomber of Gods elect Nowe therefore let him iudge that seeing the Apostles and all the Saintes of God are builded in the walles of this citie howe it can bee the citie of God without the walles Yea he neither doeth nor can bring any worde of God that the walles shoulde signifie discipline onely and not rather the gathering and building of all the saints of god into one spirituall house city of god And therefore is there no mention made of any temple or other houses within the city yea the text saith that there was none such but the Lorde God Almightie and the Lambe are the Temple thereof And in the 121. psalme that hie coÌ„mendation of the building of IerusaleÌ„ is expounded in the 87. psalme wherein it consisted namely in the building of the walles gates therfore he praiseth it saying God laid his foundations among the holy mouÌ„taines the lord loueth the gates of Zion more then all the habitations of Iacob glorious things are spoken of thee O citie of God And in the fourtie and eyght Psalme Compasse about Zâ—on and goe rounde about it and tell the towres thereof marke well the wall thereof Beholde her towers that ye may tell your posteritie And in Nehemiah the people are sayde to bee in great affliction and in reproch because the wal of Ierusalem was broken downe and the gates thereof were burnt with fire Wherefore the city Ierusalem was a resemblance and figure of the spirituall Ierusalem and Church of God onely by the walles and gates of the citie there execution of Iudgement in the gates thereof For in these 3.
reading or dumb ministerie is not of Christ therefore we are not to receiue or heare such a ministerie Lykewise the Scribes when they preached trueth were to bee heard and receiued therefore these being no preachers are not to be heard nor receiued The same may be sayde of Magistrates that what duetyes they are able and sufficient to doe therein we may receiue some good by them therefore the dumbe ministers hauing no ablenesse nor sufficiencie to that calling are wholy to be reiected If he say that the reading of common seruice is some ablenesse and sufficiencie of a minister hee knoweth well ynough that that is no parte nor duetie of the ministerie For though it bee written That the Leuites reade in the booke of the Lawe and gaue the sense and cause the people to vnderstande the reading And againe in the Actes that Moses was preached being read euery Sabbath yet wee must not thereby vnderstande a bare reading onely neither a reading of a stinted forme of seruice For the order was as appeareth in Luke and in the Actes chap 13. to reade the Law and word of God and then to preach vpon it And therefore as appeareth in Nehemiah They read in the Booke of the Lawe and preached the sense and vnderstanding thereof to the people And therefore in Timothie Reading exhortation and doctrine are ioyned together If Master Cartwright doe further alleadge that the dumbe ministers haue some ablenesse or sufficiencie to minister the Sacramentes he likewyse knoweth that it is no parte nor duety of the ministerye to reade a consecration of the Sacramentes neyther to minister the sacramentes without preaching and much lesse without the power and abilitie to preache This is manifest in the olde Lawe as in Deuteromie Ecclesiastes and in other places Likewise in Newe Testament as in Matthewe Actes and sundry other places By all which places it is euident That though preaching may sometymes be without the present Acte of ministring the Sacramentes yet the Sacraments might neuer be ministred but of preachers and with preaching But nowe marke howe fondely hee compareth dumbe Ministers to vnable or vnsufficient magystrates which shoulde rather bee compared to Trayterous and vsurping Rebelles For as anye vsurper were wholy to bee reiected and withstoode if hee shoulde get from Her Maiestie her royall dignity and crowne or laye clayme thereunto So also are these minysters to bee reiected which vsurpe a kyngdome and gouernement in the Churche when as they ought not to bee counted brethren nor members in the Churche It agayne Master Cartwright doe saye that vsurping Traytours maye geue vs our ryght and wee are to take it at theyr handes Wee aunswere that this is the questyon whether the readyng of seruyce in that manner and theyr mynistring of Sacramentes bee ryght or no. Fyrst wee shewed before that such Sacramentes so mynistred and suche a readyng of Seruyce were execrable thynges and also none of our ryght But if they were our ryght yet a man is to take his ryght from vsurpyng Traytoures by force of armes if hee bee able Or if hee bee not able hee shoulde rather loose his righte then doe suite and homage to a Traytour In deede the Lordes Sacramentes are our ryghte and thankes bee to our Lorde GOD wee may haue them by other meanes then by the Dumbe Mynisters And though wee coulde not yet wee shoulde not take our ryghte on a thyefe to iustyfie his theeuerye For these hyrelynges are theeues and robbers comming in by the windowe as it is written So wee shoulde first followe the Lawe on them to thrust them out of the sheepefolde and then see if wee can get our right For if all such Ministers were excommunicate from among the brethren wee shoulde knowe the better both what were our ryght and howe to come by it Againe Master C. distinguisheth that to be able to teache is not of the substance of a minister but onely of a lawful minister also that to be able to iudge true iudgemēt is not of the substance of a magistrate but onely of a lawfull Magistrate Such lyke sopperyes as these not worthie the answering we haue answered before But here agayne we answere that the discipline of the Church and of the common wealth are vnlike in this that vngodly men may bee sometymes lawfull officers and magistrates in a common wealth and therefore Heathen Kynges yea Idolatrous kinges and princes are lawfull Magistrates at this daye Otherwyse wee shoulde condemne our owne Kinges and Queenes which heretofore haue bene Popish and Idolatrous as beeing no lawfull Magistrates But in the Church of God this holdeth not For if any be a wretched liuer or an Idolater hee can neither be minister nor lawfull minister in the church yea he is no parte nor member of the Church Againe we say that if any be an vnlawfull minister hee is a Minister quyte out of the Church as we prooued before and then what hath the churche to doe with hym Master Cartwright will needes haue hym to bee a minister and we are content for he shall bee a minister not for the Churche nor to haue any medling in the Churche but for Satan and for the children of Satan Further wee answere accordyng to hys manner of reasoning that to auoyde Idolatrye or to be no Idolater is not of the substance of a mynister but of a lawfull mynister for he may be a minister though he be an Idolatrous minister But shall wee therefore say that dayly massemongers commyng openly from the masse to mynister the Sacramentes in the same order that our dumbe mynisters doe shall be receyued of the brethren or that the brethen shall receyue the Sacramentes at theyr handes And yet agayne wee answere that if a man bee not a lawfull minister hee hath no essence nor substance of a mynister except we saye hee hath the substance of a deuelish minister For the lawfulnesse of a minister and of his ministration is the essence and substance of a minister and of his ministring Paul saith that where no lawe is there is no transgression He meaneth that because there is a lawe therefore the breach of that lawe is the essence and substance of sinne and transgression The lawe saith he is it that causeth wrath For it maketh sinne to be sinne Wherefore as that which is vnlawfull or against the lawe of God hath the being and essence of sinne so it must needs folow that the lawfulnes of anything is the being the essence substance of the same therfore also that the lawfulnes of ministers is the essence substance of ministers And so we see how vayne his distinction is that a mā may haue the substāce of a minister yet be no lawful minister I would not so readily vse such schoole tearmes words as is essence substāce being if I were not forced thereto by his vngodly subtleties And surely except god in iudgement haue blinded
both for the sinnes of the priests and of the people which doeth plainely prooue that by one common doctrine they acknowledged all to bee sinners and to haue neede of the grace and mercie of God What then is to be meant By those heauie burdens which they layde on mens shoulders Master Cartwright sayeth They were the burdens of the morall lawe that is the dueties of righteousnesse which all men perpetually ought to obserue and doe Surely this burden both Christ him selfe and all the Apostles and prophets doe lay on vs more straightly then euer did the Pharisees For what strayght commaundements doeth Christ geue Against vnaduised anger reproching offences against lust of the heart wanton lookes and all occasions of sinne Also against swearing against reuenge against hatred against hypocrisie against distrustfulnesse and a number such like And he threatneth in the fift of Matthewe That for breaking the least commandement a man shall bee thrust out of the kingdome of God And howe often is the burden of the Lorde the burden of the Lorde repeated in the Prophetes wherefore that burden or yoke is rather meant which is named in the Actes That they tempted God to lay a yoke on the disciples neckes which neither they nor their fathers were able to beare This burden was the ceremonies of the olde Lawe which were more intollerable to others then to the Scribes and Pharises For they being most of them Priestes and Leuites were not to bring their tythes first fruites and offringes to Ierusalem as did others from all quarters round about For they dwelt at or about Ierusalem especially those whome Christ rebuketh or else came to Ierusalem to minister in their course And they tooke tythes and payed none saue onely the tenth parte of the tythes that were brought them They did very straightly looke to their tenthes and to all clensings purifyings vowes and offrings c. for they were their liuing and maintenance Wherefore it being a great trouble and burden to others to come from all places of the worlde to Ierusalem euery yeere as the Lawe then did bynde them also to pay their vowes and their tenthes and first fruites and to obserue their purifyings c. and no trouble at all to the Scribes which kept at Ierusalem no maruaile though Christ say they layed heauie burdens vpon other meÌ„s shoulders but would not touch them them selues with the leact of their fingers For there being an hundreth occasions in the yeere whereby the people might become vncleane as by touching tasting handling by the death of any that should dye by them by diseases by ignorances and escapes c. they were to bee cleansed by the sprinckeling water and to bring their offeringes to Ierusalem But Master Cartwright might haue alleadged a more likely proofe then these out of the Romanes namely That Israel sought not righteousnesse by faith but as it were by the workes of the Lawe for they haue stumbled at the stumbling stone For answere hereto we shewed before that the Israelites made a profession of their faith in the Messiah euen till the tyme that he plainely shewed him selfe and then they reiecting him and yet beleeuing that he was still to come their faith became as no faith they beleeued in a Messiah which was to come but they stumbled at him which was come And so he was vnto them that stumbling stone and rocke of offence And so this worde as or as it were is well added of Paul For hee meaneth that their doctrine and profession was not openly nor directly to seeke righteousnesse by the bare Lawe but by their rebellion against the Messiah that was come they did as much and as they tearme it indirectly So as it were they sought righteousnesse by the Lawe when they kept the ceremonial law without the Christ that was come though not simply without the Christ they looked for yea they â—eleeued that the ceremonies did still offer and represent Christ vnto them so made profession that to keepe the ceremonial law was to keepe their faith and beleefe in Christ But they hauing refused Christ coÌ„e alreadie and christ hauing abolished that law they might well be said to seek righteousnes without faith in christ Thus it is manifest that the doctrine sacrifices of the Iewes was to haue righteousnes and atonement by Christ whome their sacrifices did signifie but their deeds and practise in refusing Christ was as much as to seeke righteousnesse by the law Nowe those which refused christ and beleeued not in him were vtterly separate as was shewed before from the communion and fellowship of the churche And therefore this matter is altogeter against him As for that place of luke he abuseth it too much for the parable of a pharise which speaketh of matters as though they were when in deede they were not he alleadgeth for proofe of all the Pharisees doctrine First the fault of one Pharise if he had bene faultie can not prooue them all faultie then also the parable of a fault doeth shewe it to be no fault committed but imagined or supposed as if it were committed Thirdlye Christ in that place mindeth not to rebuke any doctrine of the Scribes and Pharisees but as the text sayeth he spake a parable vnto certaine which trusted in them selues that they were iust and despised others None are named to teeche any such doctrine but certaine are rebuked for trusting in themselues wherefore the like proofe to this might I alleadge against him namely that very many in England both preachers and others doe trust in their riches or power or wisedome or good workes c. Therefore the preachers in Englande doe teach men to trust in theÌ„selues But as this proofe is fonde so the conclusion that followeth is according For he concludeth that the dumbe ministerie is as lawful and good as the ministerie of the Scribes which taught vntruely saith he in the chiefe grounds of religion Although he cannot proue such vntrue doctrine yet howe doeth it followe that their ministerie which faileth in all poyntes shoulde bee as good as theirs which fayleth but in some poyntes For the dumbe ministers wee prooued to haue no parte nor worke in the ministerie And the Scribes hee confessed before to sit in Moses seate to teache true doctrine to haue a calling by the Churche Agayne they must needes edifie more which preache much trueth then they whiche are no preachers at all But the Scripture is playne that if anye preache muche trueth and yet doe preache heresies withall they are to be auoided as it is written Reiect him that is an heretike after once or twise admonition And though the Churche is to admonishe such yet if it will not or can not then any man particularly hath this libertie to admonishe except for his scornefulnesse and obstinacie he be vnworthie And then we are forbidden to receiue them to house or
false message as if it were true Againe that anye dumbe dogges which coulde not barke did minister the sacrisices Master Cartwright can not prooue yea before we haue prooued the contrary For the sacrifices were alwayes ministred as is shewed before by Priestes that coulde preache and did preache The occasion for which the sacrifice was offered was shewed before The sinnes of those that brought the sacrifice was confessed ouer the head of the Sacrifice c. All these thinges are manifest in the olde Lawe Indeede there were dumbe dogges among the priestes for there were diuers cities which belonged to the Priestes onely yet none snche being able nor vsing to minister the sacrifices wee speake not here of Idolatrous sacrifices I saye it is follye to imagine that the people did bring their sacrifices to such But yet if they did bring we haue prooued before that they ought not to haue done so If Master Cartwright saye that the Churche indeede might refuse the false prophetes and put them from the sacrifices but not euery particular man in the Churche I aunswere that the question is not of forbidding and debarring from the sacrifices but of withdrawing our selues from wicked companions in the sacrifices And so it followeth that if the whole Churche ought not to communicate with such in the sacrifices then no part nor member of the Churche ought to communicate and if the whole Churche doe sinne and commit wickednesse by communicating with suche then if any amongest them will refuse to communicate they shall doe well and shall not sinne thereby That the whole Churche ought not to communicate but to cast out such from amongest them it is prooued before But here is that place of Paul to be answered which the aduersaryes lay against vs whiche is that some preache Christ of enuie and strife and some also of good will and Paul reioyceth that Christ is preached all manner wayes By which wordes they woulde gather that we may communicate in the Churche with false teachers false prophetes heretikes and vngodly wretches Howe shamelessely they gather this euen Paul in the same Epistle answereth them for he biddeth them beware of dogges beware of euill workers beware of the concision Woulde Paul haue dogges and euill workers to communicate in the Churche Nay doeth he not call them concision from the Church meaning that if they preached circumcision they must needes be cut off from the Church and others also with them And so their circumcision shoulde rather be concision that is a cutting and renting of the Churche in sunder Paul is so farre from reioysing in such preachers that in the eighteenth verse he geueth warning of them with weeping teares and calleth them enemies of the crosse of Christ belligods proude and worldly men and appointed to damnation And Paul would not onely not suffer the churche to communicate with such as is largely prooued before but wisheth they were euen dead and destroyed which so did disquiet the churche What is then to be meant by Paules ioy that Christ was preached all manner wayes Surely this that so the church and the discipline thereof were kept vpright we neede not care for the enemies thereof yea and if in the churche also the doctrine of hypocrites doe more good then their secret faultes can doe hurt we are therein to reioyce For Paul â—peaketh of the enuie and contentious minde of such preachers and not of anye grosse wickednesse that brake foorth by them Further if some be deceiued in doctrine and bee otherwyse mynded then the trueth is God shall reueile the same vnto them sayeth Paul he meaneth so long as they are weakelings and not obstinate enemies For ignonorance so long as it is not a sotted nor wilfull ignorance nor ioyned with other grosse wickednesse is to bee borne with But if any man abuse his ignorance so that he breaketh but the least commaundement and teacheth men so as Christ hath tolde vs he shall be called the least in the kingdome of heauen that is he shall be cleane cast out of the kingdome or if any man by his ignorance or false doctrine be contentious we haue no such custome saieth Paul neither the Churches of God Yea the custome of the Church is as it is written againe To marke those diligentlye which cause diuision amongest vs contrary to the trueth we haue learned and to auoyde them Howe then shoulde Paul reioyce in contentious preaching Surely as Paul reioyced so Christ desired to haue contention in the worlde Contention I say in the worlde but not in the Church For I came not sayeth Christ to giue peace on earth but rather debate I am come saith he to put fire on the earth and what is my desire if it were alreadie kindled For from hencefoorth there shall be fiue in one house deuided three against two and two against three The father against the sonne and the soÌ„ne against the father c. Now there is a lawful ioy in this coÌ„tention not that meÌ„ shuld be so wicked nether that such contention shoulde be among the true professors but that the warfare against wickednes is begun and that the treuth worketh and preuaileth thereby This was Pauls ioy and this should be our ioy if meÌ„ in the world fall out contend and disagree about the Gospel for then shall the trueth be sifted and boulted out and the Church of Christ shalbe builded and growe the more mightely But Paul discommendeth contention in the Church and saith that when they come together into one place with such dissention among them this is not to eate the Lordes Supper And here also is that place answered that some men did build hay or stubble in the spirituall buylding so their worke caÌ„not abyd the fyer of Gods word but shall burne yet they shalbe safe theÌ„selues Paul thereby rebuketh their vaine eloquence other insirmities in preaching as being but haâ—e and stubble that shall burne but they them selues being purified from such infirmities as it were by fire shall be safe yea and though some be false apostles yet if they worke so deceitfully and so cunningly transforme them selues that none can prooue them to be obstinate false teachers nor charge them with open grosse wickednesse they are to bee suffered as brethren in the churche But it is beâ—ere sufficiently prooued that if any be an obstinate heretike or an open wicked wretch he is not to be suffered Againe the aduersaries doe set the practise of the Apostles and brethren against vs which did communicate as they say in the offerings and sacrifices of the wicked Iewes and persecuting priestes And Master Cartwright bringeth in Christ who commanded the leprous man purged from his leprosie to shewe him selfe to the priest and to offer his oblation To them both we answere that neither the Apostles brethren did communicate with the wicked Iewes and persecuting priestes neither also
good thinges they offer vnto vs that I suppose I may not well yeelde vnto the grounde hereof I take from the former parte of my answere that for so much as they are allowed by the churches of god they ought vntill remedie may be founde of so great disorder to be heard and receiued so farre as they can giue vs any thing that is of christ and for this cause our Sauiour christ commanded that the Scribes shoulde be heard in that they taught truely which honour our sauiour christ woulde neuer haue giuen vnto them vnlesse the churche calling had mooued him thereunto 〈◊〉 had it bene lawfull for the people otherwise to haue hearde them for it is euident that their vnfitnesse and vnlawfulnesse in the ministerie although another way was as great as it is in our reading ministers they were all together deceiued in the Messias for neither knewe they that Iesus was the christ nor yet that the christ whome they looked for shuld be the sone of god but held him for a bare nakedman It appeareth also that they taught the iustification which is by the lawe of workes not onely in the eighteenth of Luke but euen the very selfe same place where our Sauiour commaundeth this audience vnto them for speaking of the workes of the morall Lawe which they woulde not touch with one of their fingers hee saith that they layde them vpon the peoples backes as burdens which coulde not be borne whereby our Sauiour besides the Pharisticall pride and Lordlinesse in teaching signifieth that they taught them to iustification seeing that if they had onely taught them as testimonies and fruites of faith they had not bene vntollerable but as our Sauiour saith an easie yoke and as Saint Iohn sayeth not grieuous or heauie Now the dumbe ministerie is not farther off from the institution of a lawfull ministerie then to teach vntruely in the chiefe groundes of Religion neither is the edifying of the church respected in making lawes for the ministerie lesse hindered by a ministerie teaching false thinges and that in so waightie pointes as by an vnpreaching minister and according to this saying of our Sauiour christ we may see what the practise of the Prophetes had bene before who although they had oftentimes to doe both with false teachers and Priestes that dumbe dogges and not able to barke yet giuing the people warning of their corruptions and insufficientnesse threatning also the casting them from the ministerie in the good time when the Lorde shoulde haue pitie on his Church they are neuer founde to haue forbidden the people to come to their sacrifices or to bring their sacrifices commaunded by the lawe vnto them yea our Sauiour that liued in the corruptest times of the Churche and when things were most confused and fewest steppes of any lawfull calling to be seene yet commaunded the man whome he purged from his leprosie to shewe him selfe vnto the priest where it is to be obserued that he saith to the priest generally without willing him to make choise of a priest better instructed or affected vnto the trueth then the rest but indifferently vnto the priest the high priest albeit hee was at that time contrary to the Lawe made a yeerely officer although he entred in by Simonie and rewarde vnto the Romanes yet notwithstanding we see our sauiour bare him reuerence for his office sake and as before his Iudge in spirituall causes gaue an accompt of his doctrine we haue another example of reuerence vnto such rulers euen in thinges that were done by them wrongefully for Ieremie being as it appeareth suspended for a time from comming into the Temple and albeit at libertie of his body woulde not least as it seemeth be should make a tumult enter into the temple and therefore hauing written that which he had to say sent Baruch to reade his sermon in the temple moreouer when a magistrate is not able to doe some parte of his office as for example being able to doe the dueties which are to be perfourmed in peace is insufficient for mortall offences yet no man refuseth to take that which he is able to giue because he is not able to doe all that is required Euen so endeuoring to our uttermost to a sufficient ministerie I woulde thinke in the meane season that the good thinges that they are able to giue vs may be taken at their handes and if any say that it is of the substance of a church minister to be able to teach and therefore he is no minister that hath not that habilitie it may be answered that it is of the substāce of a good lawfull minister of God but not simply of a minister whereunto it is sufficient to haue the church calling as it is of the substance rather of a lawfull magistrate to be able to iudge betweene his subiectes then simply of a magistrate whome the election of the people or of other to whome his choise belongeth maketh a magistrate of the Lorde although he be no lawfull or sufficient magistrate as therefore we take him for a magistrate which for the ignorance of his charge may be called an idoll magistrate Euen so it seemeth that he may bee holden for a minister which hath the Churches calling albeit he be not able to doe the principall charge of that ministerie Neither doeth the place of the Prophet 〈◊〉 whiche sayeth because they haue refused knowledge they shall bee no Priestes vnto him stande against this the Prophet rather giuing a rule to followe in the election or disposition of them then shewing howe farre they may be vsed finally to that which is obiected of communicating with their 〈◊〉 in taking any thing at their handes I answere first that the same might haue bene laide to the peoples charge vnder the Lawe which is neuer done of the Prophetes Secondly if by communicating with him we shoulde make him minister I graunt that a piece of his guilte would sticke to our fingers but when that is not I see not howe by receiuing the sacramentes of him which partake more vnto his wickednesse then the sonne is partaker of his fathers murther because he receiueth of his fathers gifte some parte of his owne landes and moueables and so much there then here as the father giueth his owne thinges where the dumbe minister doeth onely dispence the giftes of the Lorde wherefore it may bee rather feared least in refusing the Sacramentes offered by him we put the Lorde awaye from vs whose they be then in taking the Sacramentes at his handes to bee parteners of impietie which is the meanes and can take no holde of the Sacramentes in any sorte For euen as not able to auoyde him I may communicate with a minister that is an adulterer without being partaker of his adulterie Euen so also may I communicate with a dumbe minister and yet neuerthelesse be free from his impietie Thus haue you my aunswere written not without the feare
those that turne from iniquitie in Iacob As againe it is written Walke before me and be thou vpright and I will make my couenant betweene me and thee As who say one condition and part of the couenant is our vpright and good profession So likewise in Ieremie and Exodus the promise of obedience in the people is set downe as one part of the couenant Obey my voyce and doe according to all these thinges which I commande you so shall you be my people and I will be your god or else cursed be the man that obeyeth not the wordes of this couenant For on this condition will the Lorde receiue vs as Paul reasoneth if we come out from among the wicked and separate our selues Then will I be a Father vnto you and ye shall be my sonnes and daughters saith the Lorde Almightie Thus shoulde Master Cartwright haue conferred place with place and haue knowen that the worde is no couenant where the practise thereof is reiected and troden vnder foote neither can men say they haue the couenant of the spirite when open and grosse wickednesse so reigneth in them that there is no power of the spirite to redresse it but it remaineth incurable And so Paul reasoneth that as many as are led by the spirit of god they are the sonnes of god but he sheweth that they are in the state of condemnation and not in Christ Iesus if they walke after the flesh and not after the spirite For there is not the couenant of the spirite where we are not turned from iniquitie as Isaiah him selfe witnesseth and let Zecharie interprete Isaiah whose sheweth what spirite God will powre vpon his house and people namely The spirit of grace and compassion vnto repentance and mourning for their sinnes Likewise Ezechiel doeth giue the proofe and tryall of that newe spirit and newe heart which God woulde put in his people namely this That they should walke in his statutes and keepe his iudgements and execute them and so doing they shall be his people and he woulde be their god Wherefore let not Master Cartwright account so much of the word in their mouthes except as it is written in Deut. it be in their mouthes and in their heartes for to doe it Otherwise Christ wil pronounce of them that in vaine they worship the Lord and so are they false worshippers for god is neere in their mouthes and farre from their reignes They drawe neere vnto god with their mouthes and honour him with their lippes but their heart is far off from him Surely such men are not those burning lampes neither the goldeÌ„ candlesticks he speaketh of but rather as those that will seeke me daily saith the Lord euen as a nation that did righteously and had not forsaken the statutes of their god they aske of me ordinances of iustice they will drawe neere vnto me Yet in the next chapter the Lord witnesseth that there was a great separation betwene him and them so that he was to make a newe couenant with them and they were to turne from their former iniquities or else they could not be his people and Church And therefore when Christ appointeth the Apostles to plant churches throughout the world he appointeth them not to talke of and professe the word in their mouthes onely but he giueth in charge these three things as being the chiefe marks of a planted Church namely preaching the word ministration of the sacrameÌ„ts reformation of life which is the chiefest thing of all to set forth his Church kingdom for he commaÌ„deth to preach and baptize because preaching baptizing is nothing without amendmeÌ„t of life he addeth these words teaching theÌ„ to obserue do all things whatsoeuer I haue coÌ„manded you Therfore as appeareth in the acts of the Apostles was neither the church nor the couenaÌ„ts of the Church established among any but where their good godly profession was shewed and the contrary refused I know M. C. will gainsay that there must needes be hypocrites in euery church sometimes also open breach of gods commandements It is true indeede But yet if any make an open and grosse breach then Paul hath written vnto vs that we company not together with such For if any saith he that is called a brother be a fornicator or couetous or an idolater or a railor or a drunkard or an extortioner c. with such a one eate not The aduersaries replie to this that in deede to eat common bread with such or to partake with them in the feastes of charitie was forbidden which distinction and shift they alleadge out of Caluin But who dare say that the godly wife may not eate coÌ„mon bread with her excoÌ„municate husband or the godly children with their wicked parents or seruants with their masters For otherwise al seruice ministery communioÌ„ in a common wealth should be ouerthrowen And so as Paul reasoneth the godly shuld not be able to liue in the world Who also dare say that when the church held their feasts of charitie they might forbid wicked persons to partake with them in the feastes and yet suffer them to partake in the Lordes-table Nay they kept their feastes and the Lordes Supper together And hereupon Paul gaue this distinction that they should suffer none but breâ—hreÌ„ to ioyne with them in the holy feastes or in the assemblyes which were for ministration of the Lordes Supper but if we will not eate and drinke with sinners in the worlde we must goe out of the worlde Wherefore there is an eating with wretches in the worlde or in worldly meetings and feastings which is forbidden in the Church meetings As if a brother being separate and fallen away should in an Inne or vitailing house sit downe at the table to eate after we and others were set it were vnlawfull to rise from the table because of him yea it were both against common charitie and humanitie and also against the peace communion of a common wealth But of this matter it followeth to speake afterwardes We haste one to others proofes An other proofe is as though it were graunted him that where a preaching minister is there is a Church nay we know that assemblyes of papistes haue preaching ministers and yet are not the church of God And though they be Protestants which haue a Preacher ouer them yet if he for his wickednesse cease to be a brother and they also for their wickednesse be no brethren the preaching Minister can not cause them to bee a Church of God This is manifest before and shall partly also afterwarde be spoken of wherefore I let it passe As for that he saith of some knowledge receiued by a dumbe ministerie and of faith receiued by some further Ministerie it is much like the same tryfling proofe he vsed before and is answered alreadie For we said that the inward faith will not iustifie