no such doctrine but all that God gyâ—eth grace to returne by repentance ought to be receiued though no Apostate â—uer to beare office in the Church yet such we take to be wholly purged in the blood of CHRIST by repentance which your parish assemblies neuer did But this setting their persons aside we take to be an vndoubted truth of God that where no separation is made from Idolatrous prophane Atheistes Heretickes tyrannicall persecutors nor no couenant entred by the faithfull vnto the obedience and orderly practize of CHRISTES ordinances but a generall commixture with the world in sacriledge in false worship vnder a false ministerie such assemblies are no true Churches orderly gathered or established Now looke saith he vpon the Donatistes of England Antichrist hath bene exalted according to the prophesie of Paule he hath sat in the Temple of God c. This man by his whole former discourse present Argument it semeth herein chiefly compareth vs to the Donatistes that as they made all their quarrell for Caecilianus his vnmeetnes for his office so we make our quarrell for that Antichrist reigned or doth reigne as hâ— after expoundeth it in the Church of God wherein he affirmeth that they which submitted or stand still in subiection vnto his decrees iurisdictioÌ„ ordinances ministerie are yet notwithstanding the true apparant Church of God First we answere that we take not the word Antichrist to be vnderstood of one mans peâ—son but of all the falsly called Fathers of the Sea of ROME and more generally of all that exalt themselues aboue the ordinances of CHRIST and his Church establishing their owne deuises in place thereof or giue life vnto the image of the Beast for if the same markes of pride blasphemie and tyrannie erection of a strange ministerie lifting vp themselues aboue CHRISTS Testament ordinances and worship be sound emongst your spirituall Lords in England we see not but Antichrist spoken of by Paul may be also found amongst you Now if M r. GIFFARD had considered Caecilianus his estate who at the hardest was but vncapable of that lawfull office and to that lawfull administration as it was on both sides supposed and concerning the outward order or maner lawfully ordeyned there can be no comparison betwene him and Antichrist And for Antichristes sitting in the Temple of God M r. GIFFARD must know that manie times the Church is called the Church not because yt remayneth still vnder the outward couenant but because yt sometimes did so yea and at the first creeping vp of that man of sinne while the iniquitie wrought in a mysterie yt was the Church out of which he sprang and in which he sometimes sat The holy Ghost giueth vs then hereby to vnderstand that this Antichrist who should change the holy ordinances should be an Apostata he should be neither Turke nor Pagan but the bottomlesse pit should be opened by him in more subtile and strange delusions out of which smoke all your ministerie is proceeded But when he had changed the ordinances destroyed euery greene thing caused all high and low rich and poore to receiue his marke in their hande or foreheade and suffred none to buye and sell which would not fall downe and worship him the sunne now couered with sackcloth the Moone turned into blood the starrs fallen from heauen the true worshippers murthered if any one stood vp Gods curses threatned to all that worshipped the Beast or his image or receiued his marke in their hand or foreheade we hope this man will not say yt was now the apparant Church of God lest he coÌ„demne not only the scriptures but al whome God commanded to come out of her calling her the mother of fornications the harlot that sitteth vpon many waters hold of all vncleane spirits cage of all vncleane and hatefull birdes confused Babell c. So that if M r. GIFFARD had anie salt of grace he would better pervse the booke of Reuelations which with all the prophesies of the Prophets of CHRIST himself and of his Apostles make manifest this generall Apostasie and defection vnder Antichrist and not now tell vs a tale of Caecilianus Doth he not see in the whole Booke the false Church true lyuely described the one worshipping the Beast the other following the Lambe the one persecuted the other persecuting in most bloody murder of the Sainctes Well saith he but Antichrist is disclosed by the glorious light of the Gospel his damnable doctrine cursed idolâ—trie and vsurped tyrannie are cast forth of this land the true doctrine of faith is published c. First we must here demaunde whether these assemblies were then the true Church when they were ledd by those damnable doctrines and lyued in that cursed idolatrie bowing downe to the Beast and persecuting the Sainctes Secondly as we are not vnthankfull for the abandoning of the POPES person supremacie with much of his damnable wares we demaund of you what you thinke of those persons which set opeÌ„ his shoppes againe keepe his Courtes and exercise like vsurped power and tyrannie that was before But to answere directly Antichrist is not discouered in your assemblies his daÌ„nable doctrines cursed idolatries vsurped tyrannie are not cast forth the doctrine of faith is not sincerely published Againe what is al this to the prouing of a true Church a lawfull ministerie true worship and holy gouernment of CHRIST Your parish assemblies were receiued from the Popes hand without anie conuersion by repentance or orderly gathering by doctrine into any communion the Popes ministerie set ouer them the worship though a litle changed out of latine into english some of theirs left out but al y t remayneth either takeÌ„ froÌ„ his Portesse or mens deuises these assemblies still gouerned by those Courtes Officers and Canons that before What place hath now Christes Testament amongst you how is Antichrist discouered or his damnable wares cast forth Is it not made subiect to these Antichristian ordinances ministerie worship gouernment It is not limited stinted and aportioned no further to be opened then to vphold these execrable orders idolatries sacrileges yea is not only the bare name therof vsed as a stale and doctrine therof peruerted to the deceiuing of the people in this estate Moses law was read euerie Sabboth day in their Synagogs when they crucified CHRIST But you should haue proued you had such assemblies such a ministeri such a worship such a gouernmeÌ„t as the Gospel prescribeth Being then the same assemblies contynuing in false worship vnder the same ministerie gouernment al the Atheistes Papistes Hereticks Antichristian officers c in one coÌ„mixture that the POPE left we may wel affirme you to remaine stil the marcked seruantes of Antichrist not speaking here how many Antichristes are here exalted leauing the damnable doctrines cursed idolatrie false preaching of the Gospell to our lardger discourse in due place But now M r. GIFFARD beholding these things that they haue made no separation nor draweÌ„ the people vnto the ordinances
nations that were gathered togither by the false Prophet into battell against Christ his armie how he should smite the heatheÌ„ with the sharpe sword that issueth out of his mouth rule them with a rod of yron and tread theÌ„ in the wine-presse of his fierce wrath how he should giue the flesh of all this people with their Kinges Capitanes and mightie men as a praye to the fowles the vncleane spirites and how he should take the Beast and with him the false Prophet that wrought signes before him wherein he deceiued them that receiued the Beastes marck and worshipped his Image and cast these both aliue into that lake of fire burning in brimstone Who now if not such to whome the scriptures are hidden and this Booke sealed could in this generall falling away from the gospel this generall departure of the true established Churches out of the inhabited this vniuersall corruption confusion of all estates degrees persons callings actions both in the Church commune welth in this estate in this defection seeke for or pleade for a true visible established Church the true ministerie of the gospel true worship ministration sacraments gouernment order Or who that were not droncke and had all their senses bound intoxicate with the whores cuppe could affirme this coÌ„fuse Babel these cages of vncleane birdes these prisons of foule hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ the coÌ„gregatioÌ„s of the Sainctes the true established and rightly ordered Churches of Christ Is it likely that these men haue as yet read the whores misterie written in her forehead or as yet know what belongeth to the true established Church worship administration sacraments ordinances gouernment of Christ though they haue in his Testament which is dayly read amongest them an exact absolute parterne of al these things before their eies And haue not in their Churches anie one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pinne naile or hooke according to the true patterne Yea though they heare the trompets of the Lord blowen against them though they see the viallz of the Lords wrath powred vpon them and all their doings yet stop they their eares wincke with their eies lest they should see with their eies and heare with theire eares and vnderstand with their heartes and be conuerted healed And therfore are so farr from finding place to repentance that they opeÌ„ their mouthes into blasphemie and railings especially these men that haue the marcke of the Beaste vpon whome that euill malignant sore is fallen as you dayly see and heare in their bookes pulpets And how well these gouernours mariners merchantmen and all that trafique on this sea can endure the borning of these their pleasant gainefull wares how they waile howle and crye out when this heauenly fire is cast out into their shippes Let the behauiour of these Bishopps their hierarchie and Priestes towards the seruants of God that speak against their AntichristiaÌ„ proceadings shew and how they bestir them to quench the burning of the harlot smiting rending Christs poore witnesses with tongue tooth and naile casting out of their mouthes a flood of raylings reproches sclanders criminations against theÌ„ of poysoned bitters waters corrupt doctrines blasphemous opinions vnsufferable peruerting abusing the scriptures to hide tollerat or defend the antichristian forgeries abhominations disorder enormities of their Church ministrie that are discouered condempned by the word of God in the mouthes of vs his simple witnesses Of this sort amongst manie other such like are two bookes notoriously infamous lately published by one George Giffard a Priest of their orders against certeine christians whome he calleth Brownists Donatiste In the one of these Bookes he laboureth to defend cleare the parish assemblies of the Church of England of such heinous crimes as the said christians obiect against them and forsake them for witnessing suffring in bandes persecution against the same vnder the handes of those popish Prelats Romish Priestes In the other Booke he indeuoreth to recouer the blame he iustly suffred in the first for reproching sclandering blaspheming accusing these faithfull and innocent christians applijng himself to proue them Donatists by comparing together them from poinct to poinct Both which Bookes are here answered and now at length published to the pervsing iudgment of al men Where they shal see how well he hath delyuered and acquitted their Church in the first As also how iustly he hath proued his charges accusations and blasphemies in the first second The â—ower principall transgressions wherwith we charge and for which we forsake these parish assemblies Namely the prophanenes wickednes confusion of the people which are here receiued reteined nourished as members The vnlawfullnes of their whole ministrie which is imposed vpon them reteined mainteined by them The superstition idolatrie of their publique worship in that deuised Leitourgie which is imposed vpon them And the forgerie of their antichristian ecclesiasticall gouernment to which al their Churches stand subiect are such and so apparant as not only proue these parish assemblies not to be true established Churches of Christ But if it were admitted which can neuer be proued that they somtimes had bene true established Churches yet these transgressions obstinatly stood in and defended are sufficient causes of our seperation from them in this degenerate estate For where such prophane coÌ„fuse multitâ—des without anie exception seperatioÌ„ or choice were all of them immediatly from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compelled to be members of this Church in some Parish or other where they inhabited without anie due calling to the faith by the preaching of the gospel going before or orderly ioyning togither in the faith there being no voluntarie or perticular confession of their owne faith and duties made or required of anie and last of all no holy walking in the faith found amongst them Who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rules of Christs Testament Or who can say that this people in this estate are the communion of Sainctes Or who without sacrilege in this estate can administer the holy things of God vnto or in the same communicate with this people Likewise where these parishes haue a false antichristian ministerie imposed vpoÌ„ them who can say that they are the true established Churches of Christ to the building ministerie wherof Christ hath ordeined instituted and prescribed a certaine ministrie vnto the worldes end Or who without sacrilege may ioyne vnto or communicate with a false antichristian ministrie Christ also hath gyuen vnto his Church perpetuall and alsufficient rules in his holy word for the whole administratioÌ„ gouernmeÌ„t of his established churches to which they are bound wherby they ought to buyld proceede and walke Those Churches then that receiue an other Leitourgie an other foundation other rules for their
GIFFARDS best diuinitie he hath to defend the worship of his Church But let vs nowe come to the perticular defaults in their worship by vs obiected and by him defended Mr. GIFFARD being demanded vvhere he founde in the new TestameÌ„t the Romish Fastes of his Church As their Embers Sainctes Eaues and Lent first confesseth that in the whole Bible he can find no vvarrant for anie Romish fastes But afterwardes lest he should be vnlike himself sayth that vve iniuriouslie sclander and belye their Church in matching them vvith the blasphemouse Synagogue of ROME Seing they place not in abstinence from meates ether the vvorship of God remission of sinnes nor merite Seing they condemne the doctrine of Deuils c. Whie should we by his rayling and subtile cauils be withdraweÌ„ from our present question which because he dare not answere and cannot approue his Embers Sainctes Eaues and Lent Fastes by scripture he seeketh to turne away and to cauile about other doctrines as the putting holines merit c in the abstineÌ„ce and the restraint of meates vvherwith he was not chardged by vs yet wherof happelie if he were narrowlie sought and followed he could not so wel cleare his Church as he supposeth We onlie made question of thinges done and of the present practise of their Church Namelie how he could approue their Embers Sainctes Eaues and Lents which vve caled Romish fastes by the worde of God At which wordes he picketh a quarrle that he might not be vrged to proue his Embers Sainctes Eaues Lenâ— fastes by the Scripture But let him cauil as much as he list at this worde Romish Whersoeuer and whensoeuer they were invented yt is certaine they were brought into and left in the Church by the POPE and are stil vsed though not altogether after so idolatrous a maner at the same holie tides as they were and are in the Romish Church and therfore are still to be caled vpon his name what Prince soeuer after commaund them or vvhat Church soeuer vse them And euill prouide they for their Princes honor that make her the author of such abhominable idolatrous stuffe as these Romish fastes your Embers Sainctes Eaues Lents are which he can no way colour or excuse by anie politicke lawes or transfer the blame from their Church therbie No politick lawes can make that lawfull which the word of God condemneth No politick lawes can excuse the Church from breaking the Commandements of God Nether may these fastes be esteemed ciuill actions because the Princes lawe commandeth them For so might all their vvorship of God be held ciuill actions because the Princes lawes in like maner commandeth them But these fastes are commanded and solemnly proclaimed in their Church and that by the Priest as he is directed by his Rubrick orderly as they arise in their Calendare The people are sommoned to the Sinagogue vnto publique prayer al commanded to fast c shall we call this a ciuile action Nay sure yt must be as much and as well ecclesiasticall as anie other part of the vvorship and administration of your Church Well and besides that you haue receaued and deriued these fastes from the Church of ROME let your special Collects vpon your Sainctes Eaues your bitter commination and special communion vpon your Ash wednesday with your Epistle out of Ioel 2. 12. Tourne you vnto me with all your heartes vvith fasting vveeping and mourning c your Gospell out of Matthew 6. 16. VVhen you fast be not sad as the Hipocrites c Likewise your Collect and Gospell vpon the first Sundaye of your Lent making mention of CHRISTS 40. dayes fast in the wildernes desiring that your 40. dayes fast may subdue the flesh c. Let this your apish or rather popish counterfeighting Let your special communions in your Passion weeke your Maundy Thurs-daye your Good friday c shewe how popishlie you keepe these your fastes Furder let your generall inhibition of flesh and of mariage at these Pope-holie tides and your Bisshops speciall dispensation for both by their licences for money shew how popishlie your Church of England keepeth these idolatrous execrable fastes and whether herein your Church maintayneth not the doctrines of Deuills To conclude let anie man by the Testament of CHRIST iudge whether these annuarie prescribed fastes by waye of lawe vnto all Congregations from yeare to yeare at set tymes and ceasons without anie present occasion so vrging be anie thing like those holie Christian fastes which the primatiue Churches vsed ether according to their general or perticular occasions NExt ensue your idoll feastes your Al-Hallowes Candlemas seueral Ladie daies Sainctes daies and dedicating your Churches vnto Sainctes Here you say we thunder out terror as if the Church of England did worship Idolles and celebrate feastes in the honor of false Gods and yet all is but a starck lye and a wicked sclaunder Here your euill conscience fearing the blowe before yt come can prouide no warde but your accustomed rayling which is the way to make it more heauie soare If you had according to our requestes approued your feastes holie dayes of your Church c by the Testament of Christ vve had yeilded thervnto or howsoeuer you had therby beene freed from these feares iudgmeÌ„ts that pursue your euill conscience Then had you not vpon this occasion needed or vsed these vayne protestations how you hold but one only God and one Mediator betweene God man the man Iesus Christ That God onely is to be worshipped through the mediation of Christ That Sainctes are not to be worshipped no dayes to be celebrated in their honor nor Churches dedicated vnto them How bitterlie then do you sclaÌ„der That you keep no such Feastes dedicate Eaues Daies and Churches in their name you caÌ„ with no shame denie for the present practize of your church through euerie moneth in y e yeare sheweth this true Onely nowe yt remayneth in question whether these Feastes c be consonant to Christes Testament or idolatrous And you being requested ought to haue prooued this keeping these Feastes these holie Cessations by way of lawe this dedicating Eaues Dayes and Churches in Sainctes names by the euident testimonie of Gods word before you had thus reuiled vs. But surelie as you are more theÌ„ loath to be drawen to the triall proofe of this stuffe so take we no delight to rake in this most noysome dounge of your solemne Feastes vaine worship which you as sweete odoures offer vp vnto God in the name mediation of his Sonne Christ Iesus What wil you answeare vnto God though you wil vouchsalf vs none answeare when he shall aske you who hath required these thinges at your handes What will you then pleade for your Iewish feastes of Eâ—ster Pâ—nticoste If you saye you keep them not after the maner of the Iewes yet can you not be said to keep them according to Christes Testament for there you haue no warrant for such feastes What
wil you pleade for your popish feastes of Christmass Al-Hallowes Candlemass c. For your diuiding and deuising Christs life into a stage-playe celebrating his birth vpoÌ„ one daye his Circumcision vpon an other his Epiphanie as you cal yt vpon an other c yea anie of these vpon one special daye more then an other But where haue you learned to keepe them after your heathen and prophane maner with garnishing your earthlie houses decking your bodies with gaye clothes great cheare in glottonie excesse ryot idle games dicing dauÌ„sing mumming masking wassaling what president can you shew of such worshipping and feasting except it be that holie daye which the Israelites kept before the Calf vnto the Lorde in the wildernes Exod. 32. 5. 6. where haue you thus learned CHRIST Is this to keepe the feaste with the vnleauened breade of sinceritie and truth to crucifie the old man to be planted to the similitude of his death of his resurrection c What caÌ„ you there pleade for your superstitious deuotioÌ„s towards your Ladie keeping a Daye an Eaue a Fast a Feast a cessation from al labours an especial worship to her Annunciation an other to her Purification yeerly in your Church It were good you would consider of these things what you can answeare for certis we poore ignorant Christians can see no other mystery in the matter but that yt is detestable idolatrye eueÌ„ that verie powring out your drinck offringes and burning incense to the Queene of heauen Furder what wil you then say to your celebration of deade Saincts keeping one solemne daye vnto them al at once And againe seuerallie to Iohn Baptist and to the Apostles as they are allotted in their Pageant George also your St. Patron must not be forgotteÌ„ A daye also is kept to the martyre Stephen an other daye to the Innocents with their daye eaue fast feast cessaâ—ion special worship to euerie one perticularlie What warrant can you shew for this out of the Bible The Patriarcks Prophets godly Kings were neuer so celebratedâ— neither haue you anie commandement or president in al the newe Testament thus to celebrate them Paule Peter whilest they were aliue desired to be remembred and prayed for of the Church but neuer required anie such dutie being deade Furder what wil you answeare for your keping a daye cessation c to St. Michael al Angells how wil you excuse your self of most high idolatrie advancing your self in thinges you neuer sawe rashlie puffed vp of your fleshlie minde and not holding the heade depriuing others of their Crowne It wil not then stand to saye you worship the Lorde by these deuises for so said your Fathers in the wildernes To morrow the holy day of the Lorde The Lorde he wilbe worshipped according to his owne wil reuealed to vs in his worde and not by our deuises how holie soeuer they seeme If then God be not worshipped with this kinde of worship their Idolls are or to speake rather as the Prophets and the Apostles doe the deuil is worshipped therbie Leuit. 17. 7. Deâ—t 32. 17. 2 Chronicles 11. 15. 1 Corint 10. 20. And thus your owne conclusioÌ„ which you tooke so heynously falleth apace vpoÌ„ you and you haue not brought one reason to saue or cleare your self As to your doctrines by you verballie alleadged concerning God and his worship the idolatrous Israelites and Iewes in their greatest schisme diepest apostasy could haue alleadged manie true doctrines also But nothing is more sure then this Christ is not a Priest for such sacrifices as his Eather is not pleased with Nether is he a Mediator of anie other TestameÌ„t then his owne As to the Dedication of your Churches vnto deade Sainctes and the caling them by their owne names the first you say was the fault of the Papistes but you in caling them after the same names doe not sinne Was it a fault in your predecessors so to dedicate cal them and shall it be no fault in you so to cal them as they had dedicated left them vnto you But you so cal them only to distinguish them Whie this excuse they also had But they had furder superstition in these places and Sainctes And doe not you nourish the same superstitioÌ„ in the weake and animate the Papistes in their sinnes by ratifying these their doings and calling your Churches by the same names they baptized them in But might we aske you where you thus learned to cal distinguish christian CongregatioÌ„s in the Scriptures your answeare place is readie Luke Acts. 17. caleth a streate in Athens Mars streate and aske vs if he therfore dedicated it to that heathâ— God We answere you that if Luke should so giue the name cal it speaking in his owne person for himself he should sinne commit idolatrie in naming the Creature of God after an Idol as you do in caling the Daâ—es your Churches after the names of such Sainctes Dauid saith he wil not take the names of their Idolls in his lippes But Luke here recordeth the historie of such thinges as came vnto PAVLE in Athens and the vulgar name of the place whether the Athenian Philosophers ledd Paule naming yt after their maner not that himself so caled yt willingly or to giue vs boldnes to do the like but rather to manifest their fault superstitious feare they stoode in of their Idolls as Paule verse 22. sheweth by y e reproofe of their fault teaching vs to auoyde the like And caÌ„ you collect y t because Luke writeth that they of Athens named a streate after Mars they of Alexandria signed a ship vnto Castor Polluâ— that christians may by those places name or cal anie thing in their possession after Idolls or deade Sainctes Is this the best doctrine you can drawe vse you caÌ„ make of this Scripture yet is it the only place of Scripture you haue vsed to approue any part of your publique worship which we had blamed vnto you We wil not stand to vrge the Poperie superstition of some of the Sainctes names of your Churches how some of them are caled after Christs sepulchre others after al the rable of Sainctes both men weomen Sainctes in the POPES Calendare but proceade to the rest of your tromperie AS your Coâ—â—inations Rogations Purifiâ—ations Your Comminations you saye are a part of Canonicall Scripture which is to be read in the Church Partes of Canonicall Scripture indeed they are by you miserably dismembred bownd vp together and wickedly vsed and peruerted to such superstition idolatrie being vsed in the place vpon the daye of popish shrift Or rather as your Portesse saith in the place of the Discipline of the church and of the Penance vsed in the beginning of Lent Thus in the best vse of it by your owne confession yt is an execrable Idoll in that it is brought into your Church and supplieth the place of Christes discipline in his Church
in subiection ANd now this aucthor not being able to iustifie the publique excommunicatioÌ„ of their Church of England seketh to withdrawe vs from the present question by mouing two newe questions And from those after his accustomed maner laboureth to confute vs. Because the Assumption euen as he himself with longe studie had changed contriued and framed yt could not yet serue his tourne His first questioÌ„ is this If the Bishop with sondrie other Ministers of the Gospel do dulie excoÌ„municate an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God We first answeare That the Bishop or the Church of EnglaÌ„d doth not excommunicat for anie wickednes or crime whatsoeuer be yt neuer so heynous though obstinacie be ioyned thervnto as for Adulterie murder witchcraft c but only for contempt of their Courtes for not appearing or not paying their exactioÌ„s The we answeare that the Bishop neuer caleth anie other Ministers to this actioÌ„ of excoÌ„munication Furder we answeare that this Lorde Bishop is no Minister of the Gospel or Church of Christ and therfore he hath nothing to do with th' excommunication of anie member of the visible Church Neither may or wil anie true Ministers of the Gospel ioyne vnto the Bishop in this busines But if they should we say that such excommunication is not allowed before God because it is founde contrary vnto his worde Yet this we say that the obstinate wicked are bounde and excommunicate before God whilest they continue in y t estate albeit the Church here should neglect or refuse to cast them out For the iudgments of God do neither take effect by man neither depend vpon man or stay of man but the iudgments decreed are accomplished and the wrath of God is reueled from heauen against al impietie and vnrighteousnes of men that are contentious disobey the truth Finally though it were admitted which can neuer be proued that the Bishop and these Priestes were true Ministers of the Gospel yet wee say that this excommunication donne by them in their priuate assemblie or consistorie as they cal yt is contrarie to the rules of Christs Testament and vnlawful For there we finde this power committed giueÌ„ vnto the whole Church by our Sauiour Christ who sendeth al meÌ„ to tel the Church Math. 18. 17. There we finde the execution and publishing of this performed in by the Church 1 Cor. 5. We find also the remitting receauing in againe of such excommunicate to belong to be referred vnto the whole Church 2 Cor. 2. 6. 7. 8. Furder we there finde the iudgmeÌ„ts of God denownced against y e whole Church and euerie member of that Church where this censure of excommunicating the wicked is neglected reiected 1 Cor. 5. 2. 6. To these if we add the peculiar interest that euerie member hath in the worde doctrine and faith of Christ and in al the publique actions of the Church As also the perticular dueties that euerie member oweth vnto the whole Church together with the sondrie charges exhortatioÌ„s euerie where in the Scriptures giuen them to watch to admonish to exhorte and that not onlie the priuate members but eueÌ„ the greatest officers of the Church To marcke them diligently that cause diuisions offences coÌ„trarie to the doctrine that they haue learned and to auoide them Rom. 16. 17. 2 Iohn 10 To take heed what and whom they heare To hold such accursed be they men or Angels that preach vnto theÌ„ besides that they haue receaued Gal. 1. 9. To admonish Archippus Col 4. 17. To withdrawe themselues from euerie brother that walketh inordinately and not according to the tradition they haue receaued 2. Thess. 3. 6. To note such as abey not the worde and not to be coÌ„mingled with them that they may be ashamed 2 Thess. 3. 14. Yf their brethren sinne to rebuke them if they repent to forgiue them if not to retaine their sinne Luke 17. 3. 4. And to procede according to the rule Math. 18. 15. 16. 17. These perticular dueties chardges dulie considered there can be no doubte but euerie christiaÌ„ is a Kingâ— Priest vnto God to spie out censure cut downe sinne as yt ariseth with that two edged sworde that proceedeth out of Christs mouth As also that th'excommunication of anie member belongeth to the whole Congregation the whole bodie together seing al the members haue like interest each in other c Albeit the Church thus assembled be to vse the help or Ministerie of the most fit member for the pronowncing of this excommunication c. HEre then fal to the grounde those 4. false interpretations of Math. 18. 17. Tel the Church 1. Some vnderstanding by the Church the Pope who they say is Christes Vicare general and supreame head of the Church 2. Others would vnderstand it of the Lord Arch-Bishops grace or of the Lord Bishops who apart may excommunicate absolue for the whole church 3. Some others there are that vnderstaÌ„d by this word Church the companie of Elders aparte from and without the people which companie they cal the Consistorie and this ought to excommunicate c. 4. The last sorte are in a quite coÌ„trarie extremitie and these would haue the people without the Elders to excommunicate elect c and that by pluralitie of voyces THe two first sortes depend of one lyne and builde their prehemineÌ„ce vpoÌ„ the promise made to the Apostle Peter Mat. 16. 18. 19. where the keyes of the kingdoÌ„ of Heauen are giueÌ„ him And vpon the Apostle Paule his example who deliuered Himeneus Alexander vnto Sathan 1 Tiâ—oth 1. 20. They bring also the commaundement of Paule vnto Timoâ—hy To rebuke the Elders that sinne opeÌ„ly 1. Tim. 5. â—0 and the commaÌ„demeÌ„t vnto Titus to reiect an hereticke Titus 3. 10. Touching the power of the keyes we haue aboue in the handling of the Priestes absolution shewed yt not to depeÌ„d vpoÌ„ the dignitie of meÌ„s persons or offices but vpoÌ„ the vertue truth of God his worde from which wheÌ„ Peter or the Pope himself departeth his worde not onlie bindeth not but is lyable vnto reprofe bownd by the worde Which worde is giueÌ„ not to Peter onlie but to the whole Church that is builte vpon that rocke and to euerie member therof and hath like power to binde or to loose in the mouth of the least as in the mouth of the greatest For it is impossible that the word of God should be made of none effect As to Paules exaÌ„ple we suppose they can euil shewe any such authenticke warrant for their Apostolike aucthority ouer al Churches persons or such measure of grace as Paule had therfore we thinck they ought quietly to remaine within such lawes and limits in their calings as Paule hath left order For the commaundments giueÌ„ to Timothy Titus they can neither proue that they executed them in such poÌ„tifical maner as they do or in
paynes he hath taken to defend their apostatical throne procedings which these his writinges are so far from defending iustifijng as they manifest vnto al men that they cannot be defended or iustified TO our present purpose in this 3. PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION yt remayneth that we nowe prooue this Ministrie of the Church of England to be false antichristian Which that it may the sooner be donne we are to enquire what kinde of ministrie CHRIST hath instituted and left vnto his Church Of which sort if we finde not these then may we with assurance from Gods owne worde pronownce them false and antichristian For as there is but one God one CHRIST one Spirite so is there but one true Church ministrie ministration CHRIST being ascended gaue vnto his Church Apostels Prophets Euangelistes Pastors Teachers Elders Deâ—cons widdowes The 3. first Apostes Prophets Euangelistes being instituted but for a time hauing finished their ministerie ceased For the foundation being now fullie laide the worde perfectlie exhibited the gospel throughlie and sufficientlie confirmed and ratified the whole frame of the building set vp and erect and now a most perfect and absolute patterne left vnto all Churches to what purpose should there nowe be Apostles to lay the foundation to giue the worde againe Prophets to ratifie and coÌ„firme the same Euangelistes to deliuer and shew the Apostles rules vnto the Church Besides that the Lord hath euideÌ„tly shewed by the ceasing of th'extraordinarie calings and giftes vnto these offices that they are nowe perimplished and ceased as might also by sondrie other testimonies and direct scriptures be proued if yt were needful in so plaine a poynte Nowe then there remaine by a perpetual decree these Offices to the ministrie gouernement and seruice of the Church Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Relieuers Vnto these distinct offices are fit and distinct members dulie chosen and ordayned by each seueral Congregation vpon due proofe according to the manifestatioÌ„ of the spirit in each member so elect according vnto the rules prescribed in Christes Testament in which offices is required of them that they diligently and faithfully administer which whilest they doe they are honored obeyed prouided for of the flock with al reuereÌ„ce care loue Nowe let the ministrie of the Church of England be compared vnto and examined by these rules of Christes Testament in their office entrance administration maintenance In al which we before affirmed them to varie from the Testament of Christ and to haue no place or mention there requiring of this Aucthor some proofe of his ministrie in these pointes by the worde of God In steade wherof wee haue his bare affirmations to approue their ministrie and his most bitter raylings to convince and perswade vs after his accustomed maner which euil either satisfie vs or approue themselues to all mens consciences such as they would be thought to be We had thought our demaunde herein had bene so iust and reasonable as no true Church or Minister could or would haue denied And wonder that in this flourishing estate of their Church which ouer-floweth with so great learning aboundeth with so manie writers that not one of them should vndertake to approue the ministrie of their Church directlie by the rules of Gods word in their Office Entrance Administration Maintenance Wherbie they might iustifie themselues of such crimes wherof they are chardged convince their aduersaries al gaine-sayers and put an end to these controversies and debates after a most christian and peaceable maner much better beseeming the Gospel and the ministers therof then prisons iudgment seates sclaunders accusations blasphemie which hitherto haue bene theire only Arguments But now howsoeuer they be loth will by no meanes be entreated or vrged to this sober course direct proof by writing or vnto anie christian free conference where these matters might be discussed and decided by the worde of God peaceably Let vs yet seing occasion is here administred and as our present purpose wil permit shew some causes of our dislike whie we iudge them not the true Ministrie of the Gospel by shewing such apparnt discrepance as may declare vnto all men that they were neuer cast in that moulde And this but by a cursorie briefe examinatioÌ„ leauing the more exact discussing perfect demonstration of the forgerie abuses and enormities of this Antichristian ministrie to the furder diligence of others endued with greater measure of giftes and iudgment WE finde the permanent offices which CHRIST hath instituted for the ministrie of his Church few in number easilie recited diuided and distinguished The offices as hath bene said are these of the Pastor Teacher Elder Deacon Relieuer These are diuided into Ouerseers whom wee call Bishops Episcopoi and into Deacons The Ouerseers are againe diuided into teaching gouerning Elders and into such Elders as only by office attend vnto Gouernement Of the first sort are the Pastor and Teacher Of the second such Elders as are elect to the ouersight gouernment of the Churche These offices are distinguished one from an other in their seueral functions by the Apostle Roma 12. and in sondrie other places of scripture The Pastor to attend to exhortation The Teacher to doctrine The Elder to gouernement The Deacon to collect and distribute the benevolence contribution of the Saincts The Relieuers to attend to the sicke impotent c. But the offices of the Ministerie of the Church of England wee finde so manie intricate as are harde to be recited diuided or distinguished and require greater skil then I haue therevnto Yet so my simple conceipt preiudize not others of better iudgment for memorie sake and to avoide prolixitie they may thus bee diuided and recited at once First more generallie into Reigning gouerning 2. Collegiate or idle and 3. Seruile or mercenary The Reigning or gouerning may be diuided into 1. Bishops their assistants and substitutes 2. Certaine Commissioners and certaine 3. delegate Doctors c. These Bishops may be diuided in 1. Arch-Bishops 2. Palatine Bishops and. 3. ordinarie Lord Bishops Nowe the Arch-Bishops may be diuided againe into the .1 Primate Metropolitane of al England and the 2. Metropolitane of the North. partes The Raining ministerie theÌ„ of the Church of England as I suppose vnder correction and better information may be summed into these offices of Arch-Bishops Lord Bishops Chauncelors Commissaries Arch-Deacons High Commissioners Ciuile Doctors with their Courtes and attendants Aduocates Proctors Registers Notaries Purseuants Somoners The idle or Collegiat Ministrie as I take it are partlie in the Colleges of the Vniversities As Masters of houses Presidents Bowsers Fellowes Or more generallie according to their degrees Doctors of diuinity Bachelers of diuinity Masters of Arte Bachelers of arte Clarkes These hitherto without certaine office place or chardge in the Church And partlie in their Cathedral Churches As L. Bishop Deane Sub-deane Prebendaries Cannons Peticannons
true seede they that are borne after the fleshe persecuting them that are borne after the spirit It was shewed that wee are his seruantes and subiects to whom wee obeye That this yoke and bondage of Antichrist breaketh the wedlocke breaketh the Couenant with CHRIST CHRISTES loue and Couenant beeing no longer bounde or plight to vs then wee keepe faith to him which faith is forfeited and warre ended by yeilding and standing in bondage to Antichrist by taking and bearing his yoke which bondage and yoke was shewed and proued to be the badge of Antichrist the marcke of the Beaste which al the miserable multitudes vpon which the Harlot the false Church sitteth are compelled to receiue in their foreheades or in their handes wherbie the children of mounte Sina are knowen from the children of Ierusalem that is aboue and is free with al her children For al which children our Sauiour Christ hath purchased a ful and perfect libertie at a deare and pretious price hauing giuen vnto al his children the arrhabon of his spirit not the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption as sonnes And where this spirit is there is libertie For if wee be sonnes then are wee free and no bond seruantes For the bond seruaÌ„t abideth not in the house for euer but the sonne abideth for euer It was also shewed him to be a blasphemous error to say That to beare Antichristes yoke and gouernement is the lot of CHRISTES Church To conclude it was made plaine vnto him how fowllie he misvnderstoode abused falsified and peruerted those places of the Songe by him alleadged to proue that blasphemous error So that if Mr. G. would either haue bene aduertised or advised to make and put difference betwixt ciuile bondage and subiection and an antichristian bondage and yoke betwixt bodilie oppression and spiritual subiection Or would dulie haue pondered our opinions reasons and proues Or would haue bene admonished of his former dotages and errors he could not againe in these poyntes thus boldlie haue râ—sisted the euident truth turned away the direct scriptures vniustlie chardged and blasphemed vs persisted in his old dâ—â—estâ—ble errors tunne headlong into newe more and vnsufferably abused and peruerted the holy scriptures therevnto WE neuer denied and therfore may euil be chardged to hold That the Church might not be held in ciuile bondâ—ge bodily oppression persecution c by wicked vngodly guides both ciuil and ecclesiastical But what of this may it herevpon he concluded that therfore the Church may be held vnder Antichristes yoke in ecclesiastical or spiritual bondage There is no such consequeÌ„ce of this yet this is the state of the question propounded by Mr. G. in his first answeare And this he there endeuored to proue by this reason as also by the places of the Songe And nowe againe laboureth to bring to passe by an odde subtile diâ—tinction or diuision of his owne deuising and by sondry moe places of scripture He diuideth this antichristian yoke into two sortes a strict yoke and a lardge yoke His strict or proper yoke he saith is only spiritual and inwarde where the faith and conscience are burdened be in subiection to receiue Antichrist his lawes and worship The lardger yoke is when the Pastors of the Church doe vsurpe more then they ought in externall gouernment or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their hâ—nds This he calleth som antichristian yoke The first he saieth cannot be borne without falling from the freedome we haue in CHRIST The second as the lot of the Church may be willinglie suffred and wittinglie borne and yet remayne the Church of CHRIST and this by sondrie places of scripture he endeuoreth to proue First vnto his distinction or diuision of an antichristian yoke into straight and lardge outward and inwarde we acknowledge yt without the compasse of our reading or vnderstanding Wee stil affirme that no yoke or gouernement but only Christes may be borne or receiued of the true Church We furder saye and already haue proued that al the lawes and ordinances of Christes Testament howe outwardly and smale soeuer they may seeme concerne the conscience and that the wilfull omission and transgression therof bondeth both bodie and soule vnto iudgment without repentance So likewise we hold that euerie antichristian yoke chardgeth and bindeth the conscience both bodie and soule It being opposite vnto and a transgression of CHRISTES lawes and ordinances And therfore wonder how these Academical diuines these pleaders for iniquitie dâ—re hatch vs these poysoned distinctions of lardg and straight antichristian yokes the one binding the other not concerning the conscience Except they can shewe Gods lawe Or ells some transgression of Gods lawe that bindeth and chardgeth not the conscience Vntil Mr. Gif can doe this he must giue vs leaue not to receiue his curious distinction of lardge and straight yoke outward and inward Wee thincke also his reason somewhat hardlie constrayned when he concludeth because Antichrists yoke is spiritual Therfore onlie inwarde Wee call yt spirituall because yt commeth as also Antichrist himself doth by the effectual worcking of Sathan As also because it is wholly about spiritual and ecclesiastical actions and procedings But shal we therfore say yt is onlie inwarde Might not by these reasons the whole visible Church yt self al the publicke ministration actions and ordinances therof as also euerie person member therof be said only inward because they are al said spiritual Againe it semeth that Mr. G. litle vnderstandeth what an Antichristian yoke is that termeth euerie sinne and disorder arising in the Church an antichristian yoke We confesse the Church may transgresse of negligence or ignoraÌ„ce yea so suffer such vngodlie presumptuous persons Ministers to abuse their power for a ceason yet this is not willingly to beare or wittingly to receiue anie antichristian yoke neither cease they herevpon to be true Churches whilest they despise not admonitioÌ„ neither refuse to repent being reproued Yet this we saie the Church greatlie sinneth in suffring such presumptuous inordinate persons whom they ought to cast out And if so be the Church either want wil and refuse to cast them out being admonished or want power and be not able to cast them out being discouered but it brought in subiection remayneth in boÌ„dage to these guides yt ceaseth in this estate vnto our iudgment to be the true Church of Christ. And nowe to the scriptures Mr. G. bringeth that the true Church may wittingly and willinglie be brought into bondage of some antichristian yoke Ezech. 34. Ierem. 5. 31. Ier. 20. 1. Ioh. 7. 13. Iohn 9. 22. First wee say that these Ministers were by office and caling true Ministers of the Temple but their Ministers by office and calling are not and so no comparison Then we say that these were now so wholly degenerate and apostatate in Iehoiakim and Zedechiahs tymes and the whole state so corrupted and fallen from God into
most execrable idolatries as they were not to be held the true Churches of God but were pronownced by the holy Ghost whores murtherers idolaters so commanded to be iudged esteamed and forsaken of al the faithful As euerie where in those prophecies of Ezechiel Ieremiah appeareth we haue lardglie in y e SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION proued And himself in that estate confessed that they ought to be abandoned by the godlie For the generall estate in the time of our Sauiour CHRISTS Ministrie and suffringes wee haue also proued that they were that malignant persecuting Church which did excommunicate CHRIST and al that confessed and belieued in him from whom our Sauiour and his Disciples separated And now to the place of the third epistle of Iohn I vvrote to the Church but of them Diotrephes louing the primacie receiueth vs not For this if I come I vvil bring to remembrance the vvorkes vvhich he doeth prating against vs vvith malitious vvordes and not content in these neither himself receiueth the bretherē and them that vvold he forbiddeth and casteth them out of the Church These verses I haue thus englished to the worde because me thinckes the vsuall translation though in yt selfe not euil seemeth a litle too much to nourish some false collections which neither the wordes nor circumstance of the text wil beare But now what wil Mr. G. gather or conclude from this place Diotrephes he saith abused the power of gouernment ambitiouslie If he meane the power of the whole Church the power of communication it would be shewed and proued wherein If he say in that he cast the bretheren out of the Church We would first knowe of him what bretheren the Apostle there speaketh of whether those strāgers or such members of that cōgregation as were willing to receiue those strāgers and whether they were caste out by waye of excōmunication If he say those members that were willing c we affirme the whole context the argument of the Epistle precedent the faultes of Diotrephes reckoned vp the admonition subsequēt to shew the cōtrarie that he meaneth of the other godlie strangers Gaius in the premises being cōmended for interraignement of those strangers Diotrephes here blamed for these faultes Of an ambitious humor louing aspiring to be chief or first and could not endure to be vnder the Apostles 1. Therfore he receiued not the Apostles letter 2. He pratled against them with euil wordes 3. neither himself receiued these strāgers 4. But forbad them that would 5. And so kept or caste them out of the Church The admonition was that they should not imitate euil but good c. Manie reasons might be drawen from these circūstances from sondrie wordes in the original but especially by the right diuiding of these two verses it wil appeare not to be meant of the abuse of anie censure of the Church of excōmunication As also by the exhortation drawen from these faultes For how could Gaius or anie other of the Church imitate him in this when there was no more Pastors of that congregation but Diotrephes if he were a Pastor as they suppose and by their rule onlie the Pastor maie excōmunicate But what now if it were admitted which can neuer by this scripture be proued that Diotrephes did both vsurpe abuse the power and gouernment of the Church what wil Mr. G. collect and enforce from hence First that this tyrānous oppression did not make them to be no longer Christes Church which remayned vnder him Wel and what wil he cōclude hereupon That these Parishes which wittinglie remaine in bondage vnder the yoke of these popish Prelates which receiue this false antichristian ministrie this popish idolatrous worship ordināces c. are the true Churches of Christ As ther is no consimilitude except in this one poincte of euil wherin yet these Parishes far exceed so is ther no consequent or comparison betwixt a Church no Church a true Church ministrie and a false Church ministrie Neither haue we a better argumēt in al Mr. G. his booke to approue the ministrie procedings of the Church of England thē the most odious sinnes faultes of other Churches which were not recorded by the holy Ghoste for vs to imitate or to pleade for sinne by so much as left for examples and as yt were lande markes to flee sinne by Againe this Church here remayned not wilfullie vnder this tyrannie of Diotrephes They neuer had bene reproued and admonished therfore Howsoeuer we iustifie not or tollerate the least sinne that God condemneth in his worde yet we make not anie sinne vntil impenitēcie and obstinacie be ioyned thervnto to disanul and breake the Couenant with God Neither doe we make euerie inordinate and presumptuous part when the Ministers of the Church extend themselues beyonde their lyne and the limites of their office straight waye an antichristian yoke if they be not seene or repressed at the first For as it is said both the Church and Ministers may sinne in such thinges and transgresse the rule of ignorance or of negligence And so what wil this example helpe their Church which standeth wilfullie and wittinglie in seene bondage vnto these antichristian Prelates But Mr. G. saith the Apostle did not will the faithful to separate themselues or not anie longer to obeye Diotrephes in anie thing wel and euen this his owne fonde collection doth shewe that Diotrephes sinne was neither so preiudicial heynouse or publicklie knowen to the Church as he would make yt For if Diotrephes had either vsurped the whole power or abused the publique gouernment of the Church so far as to caste out of his owne sole aucthoritie in his owne name what bretheren he luste yea those of the most vertuous and charitable he had not to haue bene suffred in the Church muchlesse to haue remayned a Minister with such publicke heynouse sinnes vpon him This had bene contrarie to the lawes and rules of Christes Testament to the practize and procedings of the other Apostles to the safetie of the Church To al which it is not credible or audible that this Apostle would be so contrarie neither may it be inferred from this place without grieuous peruerting the scriptures and iniurie to the holy Ghost If Diotrephes fault had bene in this nature so heynouse and publick what needed the Apostle to say If I come I will declare or bring his worckes to remembrance the Greeke worde is hupomneso submonebo I will submonish Againe the begining of the. 10. verse Dia touto propter hoc for this sheweth an other cause an other mattter an other fault Mr. Giffardes other place Iohn 16. v. 2. serueth his tourne as euil They shal caste you out of their Synagogues yea the hower cometh that euerie one that killeth you shal thinck he doth GOD good seruice It is strange that Mr. G. should thincke and vse this as spokē of the true Church whē the verie next verse hath these wordes And these
by the death of CHRIST and by diuers signes wonders from heauen that take boldnes to innouate change alter the inuiolable perpetual ordinances of CHRISTES Testament and to set vp a nâ—we Leitourgie and to bring in a newe ministrie and gouernment according to the same If God were so iealous ouer the ordinances and vtilences of that material Temple which cosisted but of wood and stone that he permitted not anie thing to those excellent seruantes Moses Dauid Salomon in al that busines which they receiued not by diuine oracle from his owne mouth Neither suffred wilful transgression in anie that drewe neare to administer before him but executed most fearefull exaÌ„ples vpon sondrie as Nadab Abihu Corath vzzah vzziah c. How much more iealouse and seueare shall he be ouer the ordinances and administration of this spiritual house which consisteth of the soules and bodies of men ouer that kingdome of his Sonne which cannot be shaken ouer that Tabernacle which caÌ„not be remoued the stakes wherof can neuer be takeÌ„ away neither shall anie of the cordes therof de broken for euer Shal not the Lord destroye them which thus misbuilde and destâ—oy his Temple Can they thinck themselues wiser or more in fauour with God their Moses Dauid Salomon To haue greater priueledge then the Apostles who deliuered not anie thing which they had not receiued And bownde all builders and Churches to that which they deliuered vnto the worldes end teachinge them to obserue all thinges whatsoeuer Christ had commaunded them to keepe the true paterne and that holie commandement vndefiled and without blame vntil that appearing of our Lord IESVS CHRIST yea can they thinck themselues wiser and fuller of eyes within and without to haue greater sight and prouidence of thinges present and to come thinges inwarde and outwarde then the Lorde and builder of the house himself That they dare thus presumptuouslie violate and innouate the ordinances the outwarde forme of gouernment administration to vse their owne wordes which he hath instituted for his Church kingdome Thinck they these of lesse momeÌ„t value theÌ„ those ordinaÌ„ces â—utward formes beloÌ„ging to the Tabernacle TeÌ„ple vnder y e lawe Or is not this to perfer that material Temple the ordinaÌ„ces therof to the spiritual Temple the TestameÌ„t of Christ The person ministrie of Moses to the person ministrie of Christ To make Moses more faithful absolute in his house then Christe In as much as the ordinaÌ„ces of the Temple were perfect and inuiolable such as no Prince or Priest might add to alter innouate or breake the least of them But the ordinances formes of Christ in his Church so imperfect weake insufficient yea so incoÌ„gruent vnmeete as they are left arbitrable at the discreation of men conformed to the wil of Princes to polecies times and states yea doe not these men that hold the forme or maner of the administration of Christes discipline as they terme yt variable and arbitrable and that â—resume to prescribe an other maner of executing the same hold their owne waies deuises more wise equal and conuenient theÌ„ the Lords waies and thrust their owne into the place of the Lords which formes deuises of theirs can no more agree or be ioyned to the Lordes ordinances in his gouernmeÌ„t order administratioÌ„ then heaueÌ„ earth can be mingled Neither may they without sinne be compared togither The Lords forme that he hath giuen disposed to euerie part actioÌ„ and exercise of his Church only best fitting agreeing to the same neither suffring or receiuing auy other For as it is writteÌ„ the forme of this Citie is fowre square most firme immoueable and proportionable the height length and breath therof being equal Yea as our Sauiour pronounceth with his owne mouth most gratiously ofteÌ„ in the Songe Al the meÌ„bers features and proportioÌ„s of his Church are most beautifull amiable and euen rauishing the senses to behold as we see there from top to toe described not only in the seueral partes members and ioyntes but eueÌ„ in the proper peculiar formes proportions features of each How wicked then diuelish is the opinion of these Bishops their side that hold the formes order and maner of the actions administration gouernment of the Church prescribed in Christs TestameÌ„t and together ioyned coÌ„manded with the actions c not to be perpetual alwaies meete or convenient but to be variable at the dispositioÌ„ will of men But how monstruous is their presumption and barbarous their hauocke that dare not only to bereaue the Church of that heauenly forme which Christ hath prescribed in his Testament but in stead therof set vp impose their owne Lâ—itoâ—rgie their owne ougly deformed and monstruous shapes which caÌ„ no more agree to the offices actions of Christes Church then the pawes of a Beare the mouth of a Lyon c can agree be ioyned to an humane bodie which strange shapes â—alse members agree belong rather to the moÌ„struous bodie of that Beast then vnto the heauenly bodie of CHRIST For if the great Creator haue not permitted or giueÌ„ power to any mortal man to make or giue shape to the least member or part of an humane natural bodie not to make one hayre or being made to giue yt colour or sharpe white or blacke short or long Muchlesse theÌ„ hath the Lorde great Architect of the church his spiritual bodie giueÌ„ power to any Angel or mortal creature to make or change the least part or action therof in matter or forme But as he hath not called anie man to councell concerning these thinges but hath deliuered vnto all men a perfect paterne in his worde where we haue his whole minde howe he will haue all thinges donne in his Church so it behoueth al men soberly to rest in and carefully to beware not to change transgresse or swarue from the same at any hand willingly knowing that euen the Lorde our God is a consuming fire and wilbe serued also of vs in this his kingdome to his owne good liking with reuerence feare Now seeing we finde the forme paterne which Christ hath instituted giueÌ„ most perfect absolute such as caÌ„not be corrected or ameÌ„ded by anie humane deuise or ingenie such as cannot be separate from the partes actioÌ„s vnto which Christ hath ioyned them neither may those places or actioÌ„s receiue anie other forme but that therbie they become adulterate displeasing to God pernitious to meÌ„ It is euident that this gouernment which the Bishops exercise ouer the Church caÌ„not be the true gouernmeÌ„t or discipline of Christ because by their owne confessioÌ„s yt is executed after an other forme maner then Christ hath instituted Seing as we haue by manie reasons expresse Scriptures proued the forme is inioyned
from al thinges that are fownd contrary to the same is no disobedience to Princes neither to withdrawe or derogate from their sacred power as this malignāt Clergie would persuade But they rather that encroch vpon openly impugne the Princes royal prerogatiue that so highly abuse their Prince and that trust she cōmitteth vnto them that break violate al y e publicke lawes charters of the lande that vsurpe y e ciuile sword aucthority and iurisdictiō which are vtterly prohibited thē by God that vsurpe place aboue al in aucthoritie vnder her Ma tie whoesoeuer to whom by the lawe of God they ought to be subiect that wil not submit their lawes doings persons to any ciuile tryal at the Princes royal iudgmēt seates but rather seek to withdrawe some of the most high and chief causes from her royall Courts and iudgment Seates into their owne Courtes that vsurpe the proper peculiar place titles preuileges power of Christ himself exercising absolute aucthoritie ouer al Churches doctrines causes persons to bring in or cast out erect or abrogate what lawes ordinances ministrie ministration gouernment they lust without controlement that wil not submit their publick ecclesiastical decrees procedings nor yet their priuate liues and conuersation to the tryall and censure of Christ in his Churche by the worde of God that make such barbarous hauocke mis-rule and confusion both in Churche and common wealth that seduce and deceiue their Soueraigne Prince their Nobles Maiestrates and the whole land leading them in the wayes of death destruction tourning them out of the straight waies of life peace that with their vtmost endeuour and skil oppose against the Testament kingdome of Christ that molest spoile and persecute in al hostile maner the Lords most faithful seruantes her Ma tis most loyall true hearted Subiects for refrayning from their idolatries and enormities so contrarie to the gospel of Christ which flowe from their antichristian gouernment and ministrie that nourish fauour and support the Lordes her Ma tis pernitious knowen enimies the Papistes those idolators those conspirators and traytors who they say are not such enimies to their pontifical estate and regiment as these faithfull christians are that are of nothing so iealouse vigilāt and careful not euē of their Soueraigne Princes life or of the peace prosperitie of the whole land as of their owne vsurped ruynous kingedome lest the light of the Gospel should break forth and discouer their apostaticall throne and antichristian procedings And therfore with al their might and may ne they striue to suppresse this light and to oppresse all such as in anie sinceritie and good conscience professe and practize the Gospel tollerating chearishing rather anie mischief anie vile flagitious and dissolute persons as by daylie experience is seene So that by these markes and fruicts let the Christian or but indifferent reader iudge Whether these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie be to be held troublers of the Church and state abridgers of the Princes power vsurpers of publick aucthoritie without lawful caling like Corath Dathan Abyram Or wee as this accuser this trompe of Sathan to bleamish our holie profession glorious suffringes shameth not to giue out of vs. Although they all hitherto haue not neither shal euer be able in the confidence of Gods grace and of a cleare conscience wee affirme yt iustlie to detect or so much as to suspect vs of anie such crime endeuoure or intēt We reuerence and are subiect to euerie humane creature for the Lorde whether vnto the Kinge as hauing aucthoritie ouer all or vnto rulers as sent by him for the reuenge of euil doers or for the praise of them that doe well That according to the wil of God by doing wel we might put to silēce the ignorance of vnwise men Yet hold wee not the offices Courtes and iurisdiction of these Prelates and their Hierarchie within the compasse of this Commandement or to be the ordināce of God But finde them that verie throne of Sathan that Anarchie of Antichrist opposite to the kingdome and Testament of CHRIST most pestilent pernitious both to the Church and common Wealthe And therfore may not by Princes be suffred in Churches or cōmon Wealth muchlesse by them be established ouer the Church and common Wealth without giuing their sacred power to the Beast Neither may anie faithfull Christian be brought in subiectiō to this their antichristian power yoke without bowing downe and worshipping the Beast To discusse or perticulate the seuerall innumerable errors faultes abuses corruptions enormities in the cānons constitutions customes procedings of the seuerall Courtes that belong to these Prelates antichristian regiment I am not as I haue said able neither were yt in this place expedient By this which hath bene here generally said of them their Courtes and proceedinges appeareth how contrarie they are to that gouernment and to those ordinances which CHRIST hath established and set ouer his Church for euer CHRISTS Scepter is an euerlasting Scepter a Scepter of righteousnes He hath set downe a most perfect absolute gouernment to his Church He hath perticularly and exactly prescribed what officers lawes ordinances he requireth in his Church He cannot be separate from his owne gouernment He ruleth not his Church by anie other officers or lawes then by his owne which he hath instituted These godlesse Prelates then that appoinct other officers and lawes vnto him ouer his Church wrest not only the Scepter but the Kingdome out of Christes handes And al such as stand vnder the antichristia gouernmēt of these presumptuous idol shepheardes stand not vnder Christes staffe amenitie vnder his Scepter of grace as the sheepe of his fould within his couenant protection but as the sheepe of destruction vnder his yron rodd wherwith they shalbe broken as a Potters vessel Here is our controuersie touching this fourth principal transgressiō fully decided determined by Gods owne mouth That all which stand vnder anie false ecclesiasticall gouernmēt stand not within the Couenant but vnder the wrath of God All the mitigations then reasons and delusions of the false Prophets shal neuer be able to make voide tourne away or diminish these iudgments otherwise then by their vnfaigned repentance speedie conuertion from their euil wayes HITHER TO hath M r. Gif brought vs not one reason or place of scripture to prooue the present gouernmēt of these Prelates and their hierarchie to be that heauenly gouernment which CHRIST hath instituted in his Church but hath grieuouslie peruerted manie scriptures to prooue that the Church might stand vnder some antichristian yoke although we in our first writing in this 4 PRINRIPAL TRANGRESSION blamed yt as false and antichristian In our second shewed yt to be such in the Officers Courtes Cannons procedings Now at length for a clusiue reason to prooue and determine all the poyncts at once and to shut vp his booke he hath
hatched brought vs foorth this worthie reason to rest vpon If the execution of discipline by Bishops be the yoke of Antichrist and if all the Churches vvhich doe stand vnder the same doe vvorship the Beast and be not christians it must needes follow that such as did euer execute this power were Antichristes and no children of GOD at that time or before thei repented But by your owne confession manie of them died blessed Martyres I conclude therfore That the Brownistes cannot but vvith heresies and most heinous iniurie inordinate dealing condemne a Church as quite diuourced separate from CHRIST for such corruptions imperfections in Gods vvorship as be not fundamentall nor destroy the substance for that wicked men come vvith the godly to the publick exercises of religion for some wantes in calling ordaining Ministers and in ecclesiastical discipline BElike Mr. GIF is hard driuē when this old popish reason alreadie by vs answeared and now by him not ouer wel repayred is fayne to become his cheif corner stone to approue this Church in all these chardges and the only reason he can bring for the Hierarchie regiment of the Church of England By this reason his holie Father the POPE was wonte to defend his triple Crowne apostaticall Chaire Because in the same haue sit manie godly Bishops blessed-Martyres c so that if the office power and dignitie of his Popedome be antichristiā then must all these godly learned men that haue executed the same needes be Antichrists and not true members of CHRIST vntill they repent But they neuer were founde to haue repented these thinges yet are confessed by al that knewe them in that age to be learned godly Therfore M r. G. and all this horned Cleargie and Lordly hierarchie of England cannot without schisme reuoult from without heresie pronownce this holie Sea office antichristian c. Let M r. G. now he seeth the fordge issue bind or loose followe or leaue this argument at his owne pleasure perill If he suppose to escape by shewing discrepance betwixt these godly predecessors vngodly successors in manie circumstances and vertues And so thinck this reason wil not presse him half so sore as it doth vs yet let him consider though I will not be the POPES aduocate that they here reason of the same office and not of the same circumstāces and that these godly predecessors executed the self same office with these their bad successors Yea so might th'example be put as yt should be without anie great difference in circumstance also And as to the difference betwixt the persons of the one and of the other if that may be a solution to this argument we shall not greatly need to feare finding this viperous generation these idle proude wordlie fleshlie persecuting blasphemous Prelates nothing so like these their godly predecessors these Martyres in laboures humilitie bowntie spiritual holie conuersation faith patience loue of the truth of the Sainctes of CHRIST c as they are in that which is euill in these antichristian titles offices Courtes iurisdiction reuenues pompe c. Which as we before said vnto you so say we againe that no men or Angels can iustifie where Gods worde condemneth though all the Martyres in the worlde should dye in and for them We may not be leed or drawen by the examples persons of men how good soeuer from one iote of Gods reueiled truth The best men we see doe erre and sinne there neuer was or shalbe anie man that erreth and sinneth not in manie thinges But should we because good men haue donne euill and erred therfore iustifie sinne and error That were high presumption greiuouslie to tempt God and to abuse the holie Scriptures which recorde not mens faultes to that end What sinne or error might not so by th'example of some good man or Church be iustified yet these are M r. GIFF. his best reasons for his Church ministrie c. and here his only reason to approue the gouernment of these Bishops and hierarchie But now as we here iustifie allowe not any sinne by the examples persons of the godly so condemne we not these godly mens persons for sinne error vntil obstinacie be ioyned thervnto which M r. GIFF. cannot shew in these holie Martyres And therfore we denie the consequent of his Maior or first Proposition That because the office iurisdiction they executed were Antichristian therfore the men that exercised them were Antichristes and not children of God We may vtterly condemne the sinne and yet not so peremptorily condemne the sinner It is a sure position that euerie sinne is of the Deuil yet is there no consequence therof that euerie one that sinneth is of the Deuil we see no such necessitie as M r. G. would persuade of that matter The godly may sinne of ignorance of negligence of fraylety yet not thervpon vntill obstinacie be added vnto sinne cease to be christians These godly Martyres so lately escaped out of that smokie fornace of the popish Church could not so clearely discerne and sodenly enter into the heauenly beautiful order of a true established Church It is more thē one dayes worcke to gather to plante and establish a Church aright much more so manie thowsand seuerall Churches as are supposed in this land It can be no wonder that those godly men being so vnexpert and vnexercised in his heauenly worcke neuer hauing liued in seene or hearde of any orderly cōmunion of Saīnctes anie true established Church vpon earth of so many hundreth yeeres euer since the general defection vnder Antichrist so much foretold of in the Scriptures no maruaile I say if they erred in setting vp the frame But what then should we therfore iustifie or persist in their errors especially should we reiect the true paterne of CHRISTS Testamēt which reproueth our workes and sheweth vs a better course should we not suffer our worckes to burne after the maner of these deceitful workmen of these tymes God forbid For thē should we receaue their reward perish with our worckes Now to the second propositiō of this argument we haue alreadie expressed our minde concerning the suffringes faith and death of these Martyres We finde them obstinatly to haue resisted no part of Gods worde or truth he gaue them sight of at anie tyme but to haue bene verie faithfull constant euen vnto bandes death in that truth they were come vnto Furder we doubt not but they truly repented them of al their sinnes knowen and faithfully laid hold of Gods mercie in Christ Iesus for al their secrete vnknowen sinnes Gods grace we are assured is so much greater then all our sinnes as the sea is greater then one dropp of water Therefore we doubt not of their happie and blessed estate all their sinnes these false offices ministrie which they executed in their ignorance amōgst the rest being forgiue them Th'example then errors of these
continueth in this estate a true established visible church within y e outward Couenāt of God so far as we may ought to iudge by his worde thē doubtlesse for mie part I wil graunt yt a sounde Maior proposition And if he shal bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor I must then yeild to his argumēt Because y◠church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered established and within the couenant Yet euen then I suppose yt wil be harde for him to make the like assured proof that euer her daughter of England was rightly established into that christiā order within the couenant But I doubt rather and by her present estate iudge that she was among the childrē of her Mothers fornications and therfore without the Couenant To the second reason it will also hardly followe that because some faithful men haue bene called to some generall knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate that this should therfore iustifie the outward estate of the Church which the worde of God condemneth or prooue yt in this estate the true established Church of Christ when they haue nothing aright according to Christes ordinance as we haue prooued in this treatise whether I refer for a more ful answeare of these reasons hasting to the second poyncte Wherein I before shewed how God commandeth al his faithful seruantes of what estate or degree soeuer to flee out of Babilon the false Church and being escaped not to stand still to remember the Lord a far off to let Ierusalem come into their minde to goe vp to SION to seeke out and to repaire vnto the place where God hath put his name To seek the Church and the kingdome of CHRIST to take his yoke vpon them to assemble together in his name with his promise of direction and protection and with his authoritie to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them giuen by him to the ministrie and gouernmēt of his Church vnto the worldes end there to leade their liues together in all mutuall duties in his holie order faith and feare Now as we shewed all perticular and priuate men whosoeuer to be called out of the false Church from confusion and out of the world from dispersion vnto the true Church vnto order So likewise shewed we that all these faithfull persons whosoeuer were as yet but priuate men at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together none of them being as yet called to anie ecclesiasticall office or function in the Church yt not being as yet established into order Wherevpon we concluded and still of necessitie enforce That seing God calleth all his seruantes out of confusion and will not haue them liue in dissipation or disorder but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his worde And hath giuen his Church aucthoritie and commandement to erect retaine and obserue this order vnto the worldes end And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of priuate men That therfore the faithfull being as yet but priuate men ought by the commandement of God to assemble ioyne themselues together in the name faith of Christ and in all mutual dueties orderly to proceede according to the rules of the worde to a holy choice vse of such offices ordinances as Christ hath ordayned to the seruice gouernment of his Church And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorāt of the scriptures he could not but haue seene by the verie phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures The secōd by many prophecies of this general defection and if not verified in these present tymes yet he cannot denie but some former not long sithence Therefore whilest he fighteth with the conclusiō he but spurneth against the prickes bewraieth the folly of his owne heart and no waye auoydeth or defendeth the daunger therebie His best answeare to this reason or rather manie reasons summed vp is as he thinketh to tourne it away by two questions and by manifold contumelies against our poore persons or to say as yt is by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God likening the assemblie of the faithful gathered in the name and ioyned together in the faith of Christ proceding to th'establishing and exercise of Christes or dinances to the rebellious company of Corath Dathan Abyram to a rowte of mutynous prentices assembled without leaue of their Prince to chuse a Lorde Maior c. His first question is That if all were priuate at the first comming out of the false Church who they were that caled them together Or whether their cōming together doth make them otherwise then priuate We answeare that for anie thing we can see or may iudge by the word they were but priuate men that first caled them out of the false Church and that caused them to assemble together howsoeuer peraduenture indued with more excellent giftes and more rare graces then other Furder that being thus assembled they ceased not to be priuate men vntil they were lawfully caled vnto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church Yet al this notwithstanding the Church in this estate nowe consisting onlie of priuate men ought to procede to a right choice of Ministers c according to the commandement of God His next stombling-block or question is VVho should ordaine these Pastors Elders And whether we euer read of any ordained but by Apostles Euangelistes Pastors Teachers and Gouernours And vvhether that power vvas not at the first deriued from th'extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie To this we haue aboue answered where wee entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England and here againe doe answere That the Church had alwaies the power to chuse and ordaine their owne Ministers wherevnto yt ought to vse the most fit instruments whether these Pastors Teachers Elders if such be to be had or ells where they be not to be had to vse the fittest meanes and instrumentes that God exhibiteth For this power of ordination is not as Mr. G. and the vnruly cleargie of these dayes suppose deriued from the Apostles Euangelistes vnto the permanent ministrie of Pastors and Elders neither belongeth yt by anie peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church But yt is giuen by Christ and properlie belongeth vnto the Church wherevnto their Ministrie and persons also belonge and are by the Church to be vsed vnto this worck as occasion is administred And thus if a vaile were not laid ouer Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures he might finde that those cheife builders the Apostles Euāgelistes themselues vsed this power not to take yt from the Church but therein to assist the Church As we reade Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled vnto fasting prayer and other holy exercises yt is there said also that they layde handes vpon the Apostles and sent them
out though wee doubt not the Church did it by some one or moe of the Prophets or Elders and vnto the Church at their returne the Apostles declared the successe of their iourney In which iourney also the Apostles ordayning or rather helping the Churches to chose and ordaine Elders the word cheirotonesantes lifting vp handes whereby the whole action of chusing ordeyning is expressed doth clearly giue the propertie and right therof vnto the Churches and not vnto the Apostles only who as also the Euangelistes did but instruct direct help and assist the Church herein and not pluck away this power from the Churches Likewise the rules for the choice and ordination of Ministers in the Epistles to Timothie Titus and other places of y e scripture as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. are not perticularly directed or committed to the coÌ„sistorie of Elders as they cal yt sequestred withdrawen from the Church but vnto the Church consisting of al the members which is therevnto to vse as in all other publicke waighty causes such meet fit instruments as the Lorde affordeth and apoyncteth Neither is this action of approbation and acception or ordination of Ministers so seuered or disioyned from the election as these men dreame Or so tyed to the office or persons of the Elders as the Church might either not ordeyne or not ordeyne without Elders And aswel might y â— Elders take into their hands the elections excommunications c of the Church as the ordinatioÌ„ in this maner Againe if the ordination were thus of necessitie tyed to the handes office of Elders how theÌ„ should the Church after this general defection corruption vnder Antichrist where al the starres were fallen to the earth and the whole shape of the heauen departed away as a booke wrapped vp a new strange ministry brought out of the bottomlesse pit with him as wee reade euer recouer or haue anie true Ministrie againe in this world where should they haue true Elders to ordaine their Ministers In the false and papisticall Church there can be no true Elders or Ministers of Christ The true members of Christ can not be made the members of that Beaste the members of that Harlot The true Ministers of Christ cannot belong vnto neither can administer in the false Church but only belonge vnto and administer in the true stablished Church of Christ. But now in the tyme of this general apostasie and papistical corruption Mr. G. cannot shewe anie where anie true visible established Church vpon earth with the true ministrie gouernment worship sacraments ordinances of Christ howsoeuer in a singular conceipt of his owne he haue pleaded the Church of Rome and her daughters in their deipest apostasie to be in the true Church they and al theirs within the Couenant from antient discent to haue the true seale therof namelie baptisme there giuen vnto them all Yet here not being to be founde anie true christian Ministers or Elders who shal now ordaine their Ministers at their first comming out of popery departing from the Romish Church For nowe we wil transfer the case from our selues who are so odious in Mr. G. his eyes as no good thing wilbe allowed in or to vs vnto themselues When they first came out of poperie were they then Corah his companie an assembly of mutinous prentices Were they not all priuate men Or which of them was otherwise Ordinary or permanent Ministers they could not be because there was no true visible established Church vpon earth and for a thowsand reasons that might be drawen froÌ„ the forgery of their office administration c in y e popish Church Extraordinarie Ministers Apostles or Euangelistes the could not be because as we haue aboue proued they were ceased after y e foundatioÌ„ was once laide and y e work rightly erect according to the true paterne Neither finde we to any one established Church the offices of Apostles or Euangelistes perticularly giueÌ„ belonging or erected in anie of them as a ministri of contynuance Neither had these meÌ„ the caling due to Apostles Euangelistes Nor yet did they chalendge or execute anie such office as appeareth by their writings and profession where they would not haue bene ashamed of y e ministry God had caled them vnto to haue published themselues such as they were But if so be they had donne this yet their practize being so discrepant from the Apostolike paterne worke of the former Euangelistes we might not at any hand accept them for such Thus then at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together they were but priuate men What then were they hereticks schismaticks for departing out of the false church were they coÌ„uenticlers sectories c for assembling together were they vsurpers and intruders without caling mutiners rebels against Princes and abridgers of their power aud withdrawers froÌ„ their obedience allegeaÌ„ce for dissuading the people froÌ„ the false Church the yoke of Antichrist al their detestable idolatrys and enormities for caling them to the communion of Sainctes to procede to the choice of Ministers and to the practize of Christes Testament as the Lorde shoulde reueale vnto them Al this they did or at the least professed endeuored to doe Yet I hope M r. G. that so buildeth their Tombes and garnisheth their sepulches wil not thus say of them howsoeuer he rayle on vs that doe and protest to doe no whit more If they were faithful ChristiaÌ„s such are we holding the same commune faith with them al Sainctes not as yet truly chardged or duly conuinced of any one error contrary to the faith They left the false Church so do we They assembled ioyned together in the faith of Christ so do we or at y e least would doe They were but priuate men and so are we They herein are not iudged to haue offended God or their Prince and why should wee for the same They herein did more then to come out of Babilon They did more then sweepe or repaire the house for they proceeded to the choice ordination of Miâ—â—sters to the building of the house c Or ells Mr. G. by his owne reasons must condemne them the Church and al the ministrie of the land yea of all Europe as wel as vs. IF he alleadge that though they left their popish administration and to administer in the popish Church yet they left not that ministerie they there had Wee answere as we haue answered that they receiued no better ministrie in the false Church then the false Church could did giue them neither could they bring anie better out theÌ„ they there receiued But the true ministerie belongeth not to the false Church neither caÌ„ the false Church ordaine true Ministers Againe whoseuer leaueth the publick administration of his Ministrie forsaketh his Ministrie But they left the publick administratioÌ„ of their ministrie The like argument may be drawen for leauing the
saith it is Christs ordinance that an holie assemblie should iudge in such cases Howe will this agree with the office of your Arch-Bishop Further as a maÌ„ ignorant in the scriptures he would haue the people excluded in their Synods The holye Ghost setteth before vs another order Acts. 15. And for a christian trial of our cause wee haue euerie way sought it by supplication and all maner of wayes but could neuer obteine it But your whole broode haue not only refused it and shewed al exquisit tyrannie vpon our bodies so farr as they had powre by close emprisonment rending vs from our trades and families and al ordinary meanes of liuehood but set their Priestes eueriwhere to crye out in their pulpits gyuing out lyes and sclanders openly secretly in Articles in printed Bookes in priuate complaints and false suggestions wherin M r. Giffard hath not bene behinde yet neuer vouchsafed vs free conference nor haue or can conuince vs of crime or error maintayned by vs. In whom then is this furor dolus tumultus now found but in these godlesse Priestes that caÌ„not abide the light because their workes are euill HE procedeth now to shew what tryalls were granted the Donatists before the Emperour and by his apointment Wherein there wil be found litle consimilitude betwene our estate and theirs for these AntichristaÌ„ Bishops vsurpe such powre as the magistrate may not cal their actions into question shutting vp the benefit of the common lawe against vs suffring no Iurie to passe vpon those they murther in pryson nor no bayle for anie they commyt I meruâ—l you could set forth these â—rialls alowed the Donatistes without blushiÌ„ng and make such hauock amongst Gods children now without anie trial granted them Further it is rehersed how these men the Numidian Bishopps and their companie condemned all Churches through the worlde as wrapped together in the guyltines of those Churches of Africa al polluted al vncleane al fallen from the Couenant of God through such as had committed sacriledge and were not separated They said there was no true ministerie no true Church no true sacramentes To which wee answere that wee are not to pleade the Donatistes cause but setting their persons and causes aside I trust it will be granted me that the defâ—ctioÌ„ Apostasie vnder Antichrist was generall in which defection you wil stil remaine in obstinate confusioÌ„ not only retayning that ministerie worship lawes offices c but reiecting Christs prescribed and for euer commanded in his Testament which your ministerie lawes worship gouernmeÌ„t we are able to prone false Antichristian So that there is no consimilitude in the Donatistes separation and ours in this poinct their matter being about sinnes coÌ„mitted in the Church where there was lawful office worship gouernment as they did not denie and our cause being about the not hauing of a Church gathered vnto CHRIST from the Apostasie from all them that remaine vnder that Apostatical ministerie gouernment and worship and in that confusion we haue warrant to separate Reuel 18. 3. 4. Now to the poinct These Numidian Bishops taught that so manie as would saue their soules must separate themselues M r. GIFFARD wil graunt I doubt not that if there were no true Church true ministerie nor no true sacramentes it was tyme to come out from amongst them and haue no coÌ„munion with the tables of Diuells as the Apostle reasoneth 1 Corint 10. If the Donatistes separated from the true Church we do not so but we separate according to Gods coÌ„mandement from the false Church false ministerie worship and Sacramentes Proue your Church therfore a true Church or our separation is iust and holy and the only way to saluation In the meane tyme let the Papist reason thus with you You separate from our Church therfore you are Schismaticks Donatistes Heretickes If M r. GIFFARD say no we hold you the true Church to haue the seales of the Couenant to hold many doctrines of faith to be the Temple of God then we may lawfully hold you still Daughters of that damnable harlot murderesse of the Saintes so often accursed in whose cupp of fornication you are druâ—ken If he say separation from the false Church is a commandement of God and that they haue made a kinde of separation then all are not Donatistes that make a separation but the cause must be considered from whome for which in what maner and to what we separate or ioyne Where he alledgeth that Augustine thought it an vnequall thing to condemne as they did at the first all the world for one mans sinne namely for the sinne of this Caecilianus and they therevpon tooke on hand to affirme that as the Church of Carthage and the Churches elswhere in Africa were fallen from God by the pollution of the sacriledge of Caecilianus and others so all other Churches in the world were destroyed by the like sacriledges committed in the dayes of persecution There is litle consimilitude betwene the Donaâ—â—stes and vs therein For we separated not at the first for one mans sinne neither do since condemne the Churches we know not but for the whole ministerie of CHRISTS Testament worship lawes and ordinances which you reiect deface and peruert standing subiect vnto administring in the Apostaticall orders and offices of Antichrist do wee separate But to answere your perticulars as you haue filled the printe with rayling lying and vnfruiâ—tfull and impertinent matters were but to trouble the Reader and maintaine strife You bring a storie of their comparison betwene Caecilianus Iudas-Iscariot whether should be greater sinner a repetition of Caluines Institutions histories out of Augustine Tertuâ—lan c which your labour as yttendeth but to a shadowe of defence of your rayling so I will leaue their writings and you to the iudgment seate of God where euerie one must answere for himself and breiflie proceed to your perticular accusations falsly fathered vpon vs most of them THus we see saith he that the Donatistes departed disorderly out of the Church not condemning yt for anie poincte of doctrine for therein they did not disagree Herein then we cannot be compared till you haue prooued your parish assemblies the true Church and we holde that you haue poysoned all the fountaines of sincere doctrine and peruert the whole Testament and turne away the practize thereof by your damnable false expositions yea that you teach not one poincte sincerely Againe where you say afterward that you will affirme the worship in the Churches from which the Donatistes separated as corrupt as yours and here say they agreed in all poinctes of doctrine we wonder what your make your worship to be some things indifferent as reading for prayer mens writings for scriptures homilies for interpretation but no doctrine conteined in your worship And where you affirme that the Donatistes cryed out all was polluted because such as reuolted from the faith in time of persecution returned and were againe recoâ—â—ed into the Church you know we hold
of the Gospel is compelled to runne backe againe to iustifie the Church of ROME and to maintaine that these assemblies were the true Churches of Christ in the deepest defection vnder Antichrist The Apostasie hauing invaded the Church yt contynued euen then the TeÌ„ple of God in which Antichrist did sit and that the very Idolators were sealed with the seale of Baptisme professed CHRIST in some poinctes rightly their childreÌ„ from antient discent within the Couenant the ministeri so far remayning as yt was the authentick seale delyuered by them the Brownistes not vnderstanding the scripture thus in mad furie lyke blynde hypocrites condemne c. Let vs reason a litle more coolely rage will not serue to carie the matter We will here take it granted that your parishes ministerie c cannot now be proued the Church and ministerie of Christ except they were so in the time of poperie We see further how wel the Gospel is opened or Antichrist discouered with you wheÌ„ such a famous Prophet hath not learned to reade the mysterie writté in that Womans forehead which the holy Ghost recordeth to be this greaâ—e Babilon the Mother of whoredomes and abhominations of the earth Reuel 17. Againe the scripture saith Cap. 14. If any man worship the Beast his image and receiue a marke in his forehead or on his hand the same shall drincke of the wine of the wrath of God Who wil M r. Giffard make this Woman if not the Church of Rome sitting vpoÌ„ the people tongues and nations that were seduced or are seduced in this Apostasie And howe hath he read the scriptures that saith the seales of the Couenant belong to open blasphemous Idolators their seede God saith hee will punish the transgression vnto the third and fourth generation He saith nay though they be the childreÌ„ of Idolators and contynue in their Fathers steppes they ought to haue the seals of the Couenant Againe if he say the seale of Baptisme in the false Church belongeth vnto that adulterous seede howe wil he denie that blasphemous sacrifice and bread God against which so manie witnesses haue gyueÌ„ their lyues which is plainely denijng of Christ to be come in the flesh and imagining him a fantastical body to be in euery place How can M r. Giffard yeild them one SacrameÌ„t and not the other Fuâ—ther how ignorantly he speaketh of the Couenant and of a SacrameÌ„t made by that ministerie it were too long to discusse Wel in al this he hath forgotten his comparison betwene the Donatistes and vs they had no such controuersie with Caecilianus but now pervse one of Mr. Giffards The Church of papacie in the deepest defectioÌ„ was the visible Temple of God hauing the true seales of the Couenant I then reason thus The Church of of Geâ—eua Scotland lowe Contries France c. haue separated from the Church of Rome which is the apparant Church of God for none haue the true ministerie the true authentick seales of the Couenant but the true Churche Therefore they are Schismaticks Donatistes Brownists Hereticks Againe Geneua Scotland c condemne the Church of Rome by separating from yt therefore they do also condemne the Church of England which approueth of and communicateth with the Papistes Moreouer howe wil he answere this Her Ma â—ie hath expelled the Pope his ministerie his doctrine and idolatrous worship therfore she hath expelled the ministerie and worship of the true Church And what followeth by Mr. Giffard his collections think you they that reiect the ministerie of Christ reiect Christ himself But these Brownisâ—es condemne the reformation by Magistrates c. No it is a false sclander We only put difference betwene the reformation by the Magistrates sworde and the reformation by doctrine and he is a false Prophet that either goeth about to set these at variance or confoundeth them The Magistrat suppresseth the euill within the Church without the Church in their Dominions by bodily punishmeÌ„ts in equitie and defendeth the godly The ministerie of the word gatherâ—th guydeth ordereth c a people vnto and vnder the true ordinances of Christ by the Word and Spirit The Prince may and ought suppresse all false vvorship false ministerie idolatrous assemblies and proclaime and commaund true worship orderly assemblies true ministerie c. But the workmanship hereof is spiritual by doctrine c to be accomplished in due order according to the rule of the word Stil wee vrge you therfore to shewe vs this gathering ordering and gouerning of a true Church in these parrish assemblies by the word of God In the meane time you bestowe but your oyle meale and your whole ministerie and guystes to dawbe vpp Idolatrie confusion sacrilegde Neither doth the word reformaâ—ion agree to your Church for cursed is he that buyldeth the walles of Iericho not one stone of Babel wil serue for a foundation What comparison is there then betwene your reformation and the reformation by Iosâ—as shew the perticulars we wil answere Ells it shall suffice that he sacrificed the Priestes of BAAL vpon the Altar reduced the people to the true ministerie and ordinances of the Temple If the Priestes did not this according to Gods worde then they were guyltie and to be punashed by his sword So that these false Prophets Inchanters counterfeit time-seruers which extol her Ma tiâ— for hauing graÌ„ted the freedome of the Gospel true ministerie true worship gouernment c and yet themselues do misleade the people in a false way to peâ—dition shall not only lye open to the Magistrates sworde when God shall put in their heart to execute his wil but answere before the Lord for al this confusion sacriledge Idolatrie and filthines maintained by their deceitful tongues I do not pleade to haue them put to death because they neuer knew or profâ—ssed the truth but to haue their false offices abolished and they compelled to some lawfull calling in the Church or common wealth as they should be therevnto founde meete and be lawfully called Wee are not deceiued then in imagining that you woulde make vs belieue the Princes did compell them to be a Churche which were no Church before without any orderly gathering guyding and ordering of them by Christes lawes worship ministerie and ordinances for wee deny y t your parrish assemblies were in time of popery true Churches or haue nowe forsaken all false worship Proue your asseitions and what discipline belongeth to the false Church iudge you Of the pollution by communicating with open sinners WHere hee maketh the cause of our separation and as hee calleth it our accusing of these parrish assemblies to be vtterly fallen from the Couenant of God to be for that they are polluted with communicating with open sinners he mistaketh and I feare purposly falâ—ifieth our minde writings for we haue added to this an obstinate wilful retayning of al sortes of prophane as members of your Church gyuing them the Sacraments c. But as I haue donne before so must
committed in the Church denijng to reason with you what is to be done in the Church till you haue proued your Church to be a true Church established guyded by the officers and lawes of CHRIST so that all your matter is but the fighting with your owne shadowe and flying the question in hand But my purpose is not to follow your gameplay either to iustifie the Donatistes or those learned Pastors neither to reiect the truthes nor maintaine the errors of either of both sides we haue a better foundation to buyld vpon and a surer word to trust vnto it is because you haue no furniture on your self that you set forth this shew and fight vnder other mens names Your sauour is lost if euer you had salt Looke on one of your Arguments how well it wil prooue your matter The Brownistes vse 5. or 6. places of scripture which the Donatistes vsed therfore the Brownistes be Donatistes Let the Brownistes answere for themselues but sure I must deny both Proposition and Consequence For neither do we agree in the application of these with them neither do we aledge all the same places because we alledge some which they alledged for excoÌ„munication of the open knowen obstinat wicked in the Church or separation from the false Church Neither doth it follow that because we alledge some places they did that therfore we are Donatistes If you allow anie separation from Turke or Pope you must agree with Donatistes in some of these scriptures Esaias 52. 2 Corixth 6. And in this your exquisit search you haue had one place alledged yet now which if you had well looked vpon you would haue bene ashamed to haue compared vs to the Donatistes It is written Reuel 18. 2. 3. 4. 5. verses c where your mother Church of ROME with all her Daughters is proclaymed no longer to be rested in or communicated with If your assemblies be such a cage stand in such confusion haue the same ministerie lawes worship c then we must come out of her Where in consideration that you would conningly turne away all places that commaund a separation by other mens expositions and haue not managed your cause in your owne name I will brieflie demaunde whither you wil maintaine these doctrines or no For the convincing whereof I shall either refer you to our haÌ„dling of the 4. transgressions or els gyne you answere when you deale perticularly in your owne name First beginne to set downe vnder your owne hand that these scriptures Come out froÌ„ emongst them Depart out of her Separate your selues c are not vnderstood of a separation both of bodye and minde SecoÌ„dly that the Minister being a swearer drunkerd couetous worldling c he continuing obstinate in his sinne in that estate may be suffred to administer and the godly may coÌ„municate with him in sacramentes and prayer Thirdly that it is lawful for the Minister to delyuer the parties to receiue the people to coÌ„municate with open knowen vnrepentant professed whoremasters multitudes of wicked Fourthly that open sinne may be tollerated in the assemblie Fiftly that when open sinners be common and such persons manie it were no safe to vse the censures of the Church Sixtly that ther may be a separating in heart and coÌ„ming out from them in minde with whome we coÌ„municate in the Church That ther is no polution participation or coÌ„municating with other mens sinnes but either by doing the same euill or consenting in heart to the euill and though they remaine in their open filthines vnrepentant our communicating with them in the sacrament or prayer or the priestes delyuerie of the Sacrament vnto them is no reioycing with them in their sinne no communicating with other mens sinnes no allowance or consenting or approuing of them in euill nor no sinne or transgression in vs. That they which are the Temple of the lyuing God and in the middest of a crooked peruerse nation apearing as lightes in the world hauing the word of life nothing can infect them which they tollerat for vnities sake neither are they put vp in anie straight because God dwelleth in them and walketh amongst them That to separat from such a peruerse and crooked generation were dangerous lest we should separat in spiritual separatioÌ„ from the good such separation were seditious That Dauid was not separat in body from the open wicked vncleane in the sacrifice in his dayes That Isâ—ias himself in one Congregation with them did touch the vncleannes which he reproued in the people That the Apostle Paule the Church of Corinth did tollerate communicate with such as coÌ„mitted fornicatioÌ„ though they repented not but continued in their sinne after due admonition That in policie for feare of schisme excommunication may not be vsed against open obstinat sinners but they may be tollerated communicated with of the godly That when he which for some notorious crime is reprehended hath the multitude his companion it is not healthful to reprehend or excoÌ„municat but to tollerat That the cause person of the tares being vnderstood of the open wicked and vnrepentant doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the wheate growing together in the field and whither you will interpret this of the Church That the cause person of the chaffe doth not preiudicat the cause and person of the corne being together in the same floore vntil the last wynowing the same of the goates sheepe in the pastures the fishes good bad in the net the vessells of honour dishonour The causes person of the chaffe bad fishes goates vessells of dishonour being vnderstood of the open knoweÌ„ wicked whore-masters murderers heretickes Idolators c and the field floore pastures net howse c of the apparant Church and make the inhibition of plucking vp the tares a coÌ„mandement then is not only the censures of the Church admonition excommunication c but the vse of the magistrats sword not only needlesse but vtterly vnlawfull to be exercised against anie transgression Let Mr. GIFFARD see how he is plunged in Anabaptistrie Athisme and blasphemous contradiction of the whole reueiled will of God for the cutting downe of sinne But let Mr. GIF or his Ordinarie in their owne name subscribe these foresaid Positions and he shal heare our answere We wil not confute them in the persons of dead men We then conclude this point thus that Mr. GIFFARD hath ignorantly skambled about the sinnes arising in the Church and the order of reprehension when all our question is of a separation from a false Church consisting of the world of Athiestes Papistes heretickes and all sortes of prophane not gathered vnto CHRIST So that he hath but fought with his owne shadow in comparing vs to the Donatistes in this poinct Againe al Augustines reasons are against separtioÌ„ in y e Church without discreet and orderly vsing of the power of CHRISTs by the censure of excommunication wheras you all confesse you haue no
of his booke he repeateth out of Augustine â—poli sui for populi sui This I mention as sory to see the defendor of this false Hieratchie so emptie to leauâ— sounde doctrine and thus to trifle if he had bene at the print it should haue bene ameÌ„ded it seemeth Now to the doctrine gathered of this word Coh Mr. GIF would invert the words in his owne sense thus that where I said the Lord did not coÌ„mand to say the same words but the like that is according to those directions of doctrine he gathereth that I should affirme yt vnlawfull to vse those words at all yea that thâ—y might not vse all or anie of these words at anie tyme. Whether this be a Christian interpretation of my words or no I leaue not only to all mens but chieflie to his owne conscience to be considered Yet he still couertly persisting in his error produceth a place of Scripture where the word Coh as he thinketh is vsed for the saying of the verie words Exod. 3. The Lord said to Moses Thus shalt thou say vnto the children of Israel EHEIE hath sent me vnto yee moreouer God said vnto Moses thus shalt thou say vnto them The God of your Fathers c. According to Mr. Grenewoâ—ds interpretation saith he Moses is not coÌ„manded to say those words but the like True he is not here bound to this certeine number of words or the same words If then they should say vvhat is his name that hath sent thee he may not say EHEIE hath sent me because God said Coh c. Now Mr. GIF sheweth himself a shifter I did neuer hold it vnlawfull to vse anie wordes of the scripture as need required it is your sclander vvhere you haue in all your bookes affirmed we hold it vnlawfull to say thy kingdome come or vse anie phrase of scripture to right vse your vvoeful vvrasting of the tongue for vntruthes vvil tourne to your further iudgment I proued only by the word Coh which signifieth after this maner that God coÌ„maÌ„ded not the very certaine number of words to be said And vvhere I sayd the word Coh was so vsed in all the Prophets when they say Thus saith the Lord to this end that neither the holy Ghost had registred al their verie wordes they spake nor that they were tyed to the prescript number of words he would haue it thought I should hold those words which are recorded nâ—t to be the words of God which vvrasting of my vvords is but his emptie quarreling to turne away this firme doctrine namely that God did in those formes of prayer mentioned by him prescribe the somme of their blessings petitions vvhervnto they ought according to their seuerall occasions vvithin the limits of these doctrines frame their suites and desires and did not tye them to a certaine number of words Now he finding himself pressed in that all his proofes are at once brought to be vveapons against him rather theÌ„ vvarrant It being prooued vnto him that those formes are repeated in other words in other places and that the Priests vsed other in blessing the people as Eli blessed Hanna also that the Apostles vsed other vvords in prayer and neuer that verie forme and number of vvords he playnly denyeth that our question vvas about the bynding limiting to the verie vvords by commandement and saith our question vvas vvhither it vvere idolatrie to vse those prescript phrases or no. Thus the man is fled not only contradicting all his writinges making voide his proofes but granting as much as I affirmed vpon the word COH hath gyuen mee the whole cause against his wil For if these places wil serue to proue an apportioning by number and stint vpon commandement then Mr. Giff. hath no profe for his Collects no though these had bene so yet his patched broken mass-booke shoulde haue bene far from comming in place of true prayer But that this is a popish dreame to think in prayer they were bound to some certeine number of words saying ouer it was also coÌ„uinced vnto him by the Greeke word houtos where Christ commandith his Disciples saying VVhen you pray pray thus Our Father c. Which word thus Math. 6. 9. singnifieth after this maner or according to this forme rules and instructions for if the commandement shoulde goe to bynde vs to the very words then this word when you pray would bynd vs neuer to vse other words for the text saith wheÌ„ you pray say thus To this he answereth that respecting the rules for matters when is as much as wheÌ„soeuer you pray because we may not depart from those matters coÌ„teyned in those general petitious But in words it is not so there We must consider to distinguish c. Wel hath he not lost himself and still against his will yeilded the matter namely that wee are not in these formes of prayer bound to the verie words saying ouer and that y e holy Ghost did neuer by commandement stint or limit vs to anie words in praying which in deed is common with inchanters And I take it he will easily yeild me this point for if he remember Augustine to teach that then we pray that prayer which Christ taught his Disciples wheÌ„ our prayers are grounded vpon those doctrines and instructions or to that effect And Calvine to to say the Sonne of maÌ„ would not prescribe vs vvhat vvords vve must vse in prayer he should haue put vs to lesse trouble So that besids his mass-booke vvas neuer prescribed by the Lord himself or vvarrant of his word he seeth it vnlawful to apportion limit stint as by measure and vvaight certeine members of vvordes sentences c in prayer As for his examples of the Psalmes I refer to my former answere namely that praying is one thing and singing a psalme an other Now then vve haue heard that reading is not praying or any help to pray in the instant action of praying vvhen we should powre forth our owne hearts to God Also that it is vnlawful to bynde man to numbers of vvords of sentences in praying Let vs come to the first generall argument vvhich is this No Apochripha must be brought into the publick assemblies for there only Gods word and the lyuely voyce of his owne graces must be heard in the publick assemblies But mens vvrytings the reading them ouer for prayer are Apochripha Therfore may not be brought into the publick assemblies eyther for lawes or vvorship Here hee finds fault vvith the vvorde Apochripha although it hath bene an antieÌ„t vvord in this sense and now published in their Bibles to distinguish other vvrytings from the authentick scriptures vvilling mee to goe to the matter yt self drawing by firme conclusioÌ„ that nothing is to be allowed any place in the Church which is not y e perfect rule yt self in writing or without errour vttered in speach and he wil yeild This I did proue vnto him by an Argument hee was not able to answere and did
he but bewraieth his owne shame hipocrisie in condempning blaspheming vs for doing the will of God in aluring others to false worship idolatrie and in doing that himself for filthie lucre feare of the world which he for shame of the world dare not alow neither can iustifie Yea whatsoeuer he colourably pretendeth aledgeth in his second Booke to couer excuse the shame infamie of his former yet is he become an earnest pleader for all the corruptions and abuses of his Church not granting vnto vs anie one of the abuses we reproue to be vnlawfull vngodly lest we should thervpon vrge him to haue y e same left refreined though not publiquely put downe reformed as he accuseth by the faithfull and so they should be condempned for the practise and we iustified for the refreining these things Therfore he is driuen to plead for mitigat excuse to tollerate with his vttermost shiftes cauills all these abhominatioÌ„s whatsoeuer Which yet are so heinous and of so high a nature as no pretexts of the Princes or churches power of ceremonies of things indifferent no distinctions of substance forme of fundamental and not fundamental errors corruptions c can hide but the are found heinous transgressions of the law of God detestable abuses of the worship of God And he in practising and pleading for them is found but as the Dogge retoâ—ned to his owne vomit as y e false Prophet that teacheth y e Prince to set a scandall before the people and that seducâ—th the people to eate their Idolothites Yea he is yet furder driuen openly to iustifie the ministrie and regiment of these Arch Lord Bishops and their hierarchie to be of Christ against which he erewhile also amongest the rest of that faction was an earnest â—utor to the ParliameÌ„t to haue them vtterly remoued out of the Church and abolished their Offices Ministrie Courtes Gouernment which could not be done without most heinous impietie open barbaritie violence to the Church and vnto Christ himself if they had bene of Christ as he now pretendeth Againe if they were not of Christ but of Antichrist as they all of that sect then vpon certeine knowledge and assurance affirmed how and with what conscience could the Reformists themselues submit vnto their decrees power gouernment receiue their ministrie of them exercise their ministrie vnder them sweare performe their canonical obedience vnto them Let M. Giff. with all his coÌ„ning reconcile this in truth good conscience howsoeuer he hath reconciled himself to that apostatical throne from which he was reuolted And in testimonie of his vnfeined fidelitie and in hope of some promotion hath written these blasphemous bookes in â—his gracious Lords defence against the Brownists yea and rebuked in the Epistle to his second Booke al such as speake against the Bishopps c. which yet shall neuer be able to hide or excuse his open coÌ„trarietie perfidie apostasie yea that which yet is more fearefull his open restreint blasphemie and despight of that truth which he sometimes gladly acknowledged professed Vnto all which he is driuen by opposing himself against these Browâ—ists in the defence of their worship Leitourgie ministrie which al should fal to be the ground with their Lords the Bishops throne For if they fall out to be antichristian no true ministers according to the rules of Christs Testament theÌ„ must that ministrie which is made by them standeth subiect vnto them c needâ— be antichristiaÌ„ also Then haue they their ministrie not to intermedle with the gouernment administratioÌ„ of Christs church much lesse to make them lawes a Leitourgie worship Neither staieth M. Giff. himself here in the defence of this present worship Leitourgie Hierarchie Courtes their procedings ministrie and their administration but yet is dryuen for the defence of all these to iustifie the Church of Rome euen in their greatest deepest apostaâ—ie to be the true visible established Church of Christ to haue the true seale of the Couenant c. And in deed this it standeth him vpon to proue seing their whole ministrie were immediatly deriued receiued from their mother of Rome as also their whole gouernment Courtes c and no smal parte of their worship ministration togither with the whole people Parishes Synagogs as they now stand He wanteth not learned proues to bring this abought As that the Apostasie should arise and Antichrist sit in the Church of God Yea he proueth both the Church of Rome of England at once by the schisme of Israell the apostasie of Iuda c which yet in those estates were pronounced Churches by the Prophetts He proueth them within the Couenant by the second Commandement where the promise is made to the thousand generation As also by the greatest corruptions and faltes that he can anie where reade of the primatiue Churches These miserable reasons examples are the maine pillers ground-worckes of al their buildings and his writings which being pulled downe their whole frame falleth to the ground at once and is irreparable For this I refer the Reader to their due place in the second Transgression where they are largely refuted answered An other pitifull reason he bringeâ—h in his Proeme to the Reader of an humane bodie coÌ„sisting of maimed or deformed members Which yet so long as life remaineth in it is said an humane bodie So the Church though it coÌ„sist of mained deformed members yet whilest it hath the life viz. true faith in CHRIST in it yt is to be held a true Church I will not here stand to shew how vntowardly he hath draweÌ„ this comparison beyond the Apostles scope proportion Rom. 12. Nor yet how manie errors inconveniences would insue of such racking of Allegories Only to his reason we answere that if in his first Proposition he meane by deformed members such as haue not their right true shape y t God hath appoincted to humane members but a strange diuerse forme as the feet of a Beare the mouth teeth of a Lion though it haue the face of a man the haire oâ— a woman c then hold we it not a naturall but a monstrous bodie So we say that to the heauenly body of Christ may no monstrous deformed strange members be ioyned but only such members vnto the publique ministrie as are described Rom. 12. Neither may that heauenly edifice be built of any other the lyuing holy precious stones 1 Pet. 2. or be built in anie other forme then that Christ hath prescribed and the maister builders left vnto vs in his Testament 1 Cor. 3. They that misbuild the Temple of God destroy yt And they that destroy the Temple of God them shall God destroy Now then to his inference of instance We denie this body of their Church to consist of these true members spoken of Rom. 12. Neither of those liuing precious stones
1 Peter 2. Neither to be built according to the true Apostolike patterne 1 Cor. 3. But to consist of those monstrous members Reuel 9. Reuel 13. and of those prophane multitudes Reuel 17. 18. Remayning in confusion disorder Reuel 18. 2. And therfore not to be held the heauenly body of Christ but that monstrous body of that Beast Not that holy Spouse of Christ but that adulterous harlot Not that compact Citie that heauenly Ierusalem but that confuse BabiloÌ„ Furder to that faith life of the Church he speaketh of we confesse indeed to the stopping of his sclanderous mouth that so vntruly chargeth vs that no sinne or sinnes in anie Church or Christian can disanull the Couenant where this true faith is found But this we say that true faith may not be sâ—uered from true repentance euen of all things â—hey see to be contrary to Gods word True faith may neuer be seuered from true obedience of whatsoeuer is shewed to be the will of God in his word Faith without workes is dead Now then to the faith of the Church of England we finde yt without workes we find yt without repentance In their worckes as the Apostle saith they denye God howsoeuer in words they confesse him in their deeds they are abhominable vnperswaded to euerie good worke howsoeuer they make a shew of godlynes they denye the power therof Yea so far are they from suffring their workes to burne being shewed and reproued vnto them by the word of God as they smite persecute and blaspheme with all hostilitie and reproch those that but shew and reproue their sinnes How then should they be thought to haue this true faith this true life in them But the faith of their Church remaineth to be furder examined discussed in this Booke whither I refer for furder triall And now if this verbal faith confession of iustification by CHRIST only make a Church a Christian though they erre transgresse in manie yea in anie other thing as the life doth make a man c how may we that professe this faith make this confession be by M. Giffard accused pronounced coÌ„demned divulged as damnable Heretikes Brownists Seâ—ismaticks c Shall this faith giue life vnto them and not vnto vs Or will he slay them that Christ gyueth life vnto And that before anie due conviction of anie one error or transgression deseruing these hard censures sentences May he not euill accuse vs of rash furious disorderly dealing that thus vncharitably accuseth condempneth smiteth before anie triall Yea that thus presumptuously runneth before and forestalleth the iudgment of their owne Church pronouncing divulging vs damnable heretikes schismatickes before their Church had detected convinced reiected vs for anie one errot As to the heresies he accuseth vs of Namely to hould an 〈◊〉 perfectioÌ„ in this life immunitie froÌ„ sinne from the superior powers y t God hath set ouer vs. When he shall be able to shew by anie one sentence in our writings or but necessarily to infer from the same that we hould these heresies Let vs then be held such and M. Giâ—â—ard no accuser and sclanderer But if the contrarie appeare in all our writings and doings then is it euident that he hath most maliciouslie sclandered vs to bring vs in hatred with our souereigne Queene the whole Land We may euill be accused to hould the error of perfectioÌ„ for blaming their Church for such heynous transgressions Or of Anabaptisticall freedoÌ„ for not being subiect to their antichristian yoake Or for vsing the 4 5 Chap. of the Epistle to the Gaâ—â—at against their burdenous and vngodly traditions These causes scriptures wil not beare vp M. G. his malicious suspicions chardges Neither if we held these detestable heresies could our sinns or errors either excuse or lessen these traÌ„sgressions of theirs It is a bad foundation to build his credit vpon the ruines of other mens especially by such detraction sclander The Schisme he chargeth vs with hath as litle ground or colour of truth We willed him long since to proue these Parish Assemblies in this estate true established Churches and then we would shew him how free we are of schisme We depart not from anie part of the truth or from anie that will walke holily orderly in the same The causeâ— of our seperation from these Parish assemblies we haue shewed to be such as proue them no true established Churches of Christ or such where the faithfull may abide with anie promise or comfort In seperating from them then we haue not rent our selues from the Church or body of Christ but rather seperated the Church from them and obeyed the commandement of God that calleth vs out from emongst them Againe whilest M. GIFF. standeth so much vpon the name of a Church and giueth the same to the Romish Syâ—â—gog in their deepest apostasie how will he escape himselfe or cleare the Church of England from the blot of Schisme for seperating and withdrawing from the Church of Rome Anie excuse that he can make or deuise wil cleare vs as wel as theselues Let him looke therfore to y e measure he meateth lest it be measured vnto him againe with the same not oÌ„ly in this matter of Schisine but euen in that especial poinct of Donatisâ—rie which he of a singular iudgment aboue all others of this time hath espied out and taken no small paines to compare and liken vs vnto them from poinct to poinct Forgetting in this heate of zeale and acuâ—â—inat pregnacie of his how the Papistes haue coÌ„tinually battred them with the â—ame ordinance with much greater aduantage then he hath vs In asmuch as he confesseth the Church of Rome the true established Church of Christ with the true ministri and true seale of the Couenant c And in that they still reteine the same ministrie Gouernment Courtes Officers Canons Orders Parishes People Synagogs c that the Papiâ—tes vsed left in this Land as the Douatists did Wheras we on the contrarie do not seperate for the same causes neither doo iustifie or reteine the same ministrie worship Leitourgie Officers Ordinances Gouernment Parishes Synagogs that they vse c as the Donatists did Neither do we hold such errors concerning the Magistrates or ministrie c as the Donatists did as is here more perticularly shewed in a peculiar treatise whither I refer Only here obseruing how the malicious man still by the iust iudgment of God falleth into the same pitte which he digged for the innocent For whilest he would accuse vs to derogate from the Princes authoritie in not allowing her to make lawes for the Church And greatly to blemish her â—ame diminish her loue emongest her subiects whilest we denie these Parishes to be true established Churches of Christ He himself layeth vpoÌ„ her al these popish trumperies idolatrous reliques antichristian enormities abuses of their church and distaineth her
funeral Sermons ouer for the deade You confesse a maner of visiting the sicke prescribed but you demande of vs where we haue seene it practized by or vrged at their handes which are able and diligent Pastors by these that haue the gouernment of your Church Wee answeare that it sufficeth to be commanded and prescribed by your seruice-booke vnto all your Ministers and Churches to the diligent obseruation wherof all ful Priestes are sworne Furder your Church-Wardens Sidemen are sworne to present all defaultes therin at the Arch-Deacons or CoÌ„missaries Courtes So that no marueyle though this booke be founde in the handes of the most diligent able Priestes reading yt ouer weomeÌ„ at their Churching ouer the maried ouer the sicke ouer y e deade and where not And for Mr. Giffards satisfying we giue him to weite that as learned Priestes as he haue vsed this booke to the visitation of the sicke And nowe we would knowe of him whie these able Priestes should haue more libertie to pray by the the direction of the spirit for and with the sick according to their present estate theÌ„ they are allowed by those that haâ—e the gouernment of your Church in the publique praiers of the whole Church according to the present estate therof To conclude we would knowe of him by what warrant in Gods worde the Church can prescribe enioyne such a forme of visiting c. As to their Absolution which Mr. Giffard so slilye would passe ouer without speakinh anie worde therof Let the Reader vnderstand that nothing can be more popish or blasphemous then yt is where a sacrilegious Priest taketh vpon him by the authoritie committed vnto him to absolue the sicke from all his sinnes Hath anie mortal man power to forgiue sinnes Or is it not the office of God alone Hath the Priest power to forgiue al sinnes such as are not made vnto him What horrible blasphemie is this To him that hath power to forgiue all sinnes to him we may make our prayers and supplications him only may we worship Hath the greatest Minister of the Church any more power to retaine or loose the sinne of the least member then the said member hath to bind or loose his sinne Doth not this rule of our Sauiour aswel extend vnto him as to the least in the Church If thie brother sinne against thee rebuke him and if he repent forgiue him Hath not the Church power to reproue and cast out their Pastor if he so deserue Is not al this binding loosing donne by the worde of God and not by anie power or excellencye of man Hath not the worde of God the like power and effect against sinne in the mouth of the least of Gods seruants as in y e mouth of the greatest Let this Collect then wherbie the Priest in their Leitourgie by the power committed vnto him absolueth the sick of al his sinnes remaine one witnesse amongst manie other of their Poperie and vntil more come of most high blasphemie Mr. GIFFARD taketh verie heinouslie at our handes this phrase of housâ—ing with the Sacrament terming yt a false packing in vs and goeth about to purge his Church therof by shewing how yt denieth al y e wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrines of the Papists touching the Lordes Supper And also denieth that a man is of necessitie to receaue yt at his death Thus euer with his impertinent matters he vvith-draweth and shrinketh from the present question We must therfore still call him backe to the poynte and demaund of him what warrant in CHRISTS Testament their Church hath to institute a priuate Communion or to administer the Supper of the Lord in anie other place theÌ„ where y e church is assembled This if he can doe then indeed we haue faulted in caling yt an Housel But if he can shewe no warrant for this priuate domestical Communion then we must still blame this action as popish superstitious and irregular what doctrines soeuer they hold of the Lordes Supper besides Againe though they exhort and perswade the sick person that this Sacrament is not then of necessitie Yet if he be so superstitious to require it the Priest then is bownde of necessitie to deliuer yt him though there be no more to receaue then they two And what is this but to nourish superstition or to make the Sacrament so deliuered of great value proffit vnto them Thus iugleth toyeth your Church with the holy things of God at her pleasure THe Papistes you say that invented the Purgatorie had also their blasphemous diriges prayers for the deade But we are more then impudent in lying to terme the prayers which you vse at burials such seing your Church denieth the Purgaâ—orie prayers for the dead c. We will not requite you with euil wordes but let the proofe of these matters declare who is a lyer and impudent We would therfore first knowe of you where you haue learned to make the burial of your deade an ecclesiasticall action part of the Pastors office and to make it an especial part of your worship if not of the POPE Then where you learned to burie in your Hallowed Churches and Church-yardes as though you had not fieldes and grounde to bury in with a special Dirige and leitourgie with praiers Singers Ringers Mourners Beades-meÌ„ c if not of the POPE It were too longe to shewe the originall and processe of this superstition with the great aduantage that coÌ„meth to the Priestes therbie It were needles also to shewe howe this your Leitourgie Dirige and prayers are fetched and peiced out of the POPES Portesse It were curious to relate the watching preparing arraying crossing dressing the corps to the graue also the array of the Mourners with all the superstition of the Heraldes the attyre of the Priestes aud Clarckes with their tymes and place when and vvhere to receaue vvhen to rest when to singe to reade to praye when and with what wordes to cast on the first shouel of earth by the hand of the Priest the graue being made easte and west c. Onely this in general we say that all these deuises seing God no where commandeth them in his worde are vayne superstitious and fond as whereby Gods name is highly taken in vayne prophaned and abused yea his holy spirit most impiouslie blasphemed despighted For whilest the whole land is of their Church and they bury all that dye in their Church of their natural death after this maner with this Leitourgie but such as dye of any violent death how christianly soeuer they vouchsalf not thus to burye pronouncing in the Collect they vse whilest earth is casting on that God in his mercy hath taken to himself the Soule of that their deare Brother or Sister departed they therbie iustifie the most wicked gracelesse impenitent vvretches Atheistes blasphemers Idolarours Papists Anabaptists Heretickes Coniurers that dye in their sinnes as though such could haue anie benefite
of the Sacraments was perfect and fullie sufficient Yf they so thincke of yt Whether they iudge it lawful for anie mortal men or the whole Church willingly wittingly to alter or add anie thing to or plucke anie thing from the said institution of our Sauiour in the Sacraments Or if they so add Whether our Sauiour doth accept and blesse yt as his owne institution And if God doe not accept or blesse such Sacraments where his institution is thus wilfullie violated and changed Howe such â—dulterate Sacraments may be said the true seales of Gods Couenant especiallie where such a blasphemous horrible popish idolatrous ceremonie is vsed as Mr. Giffard coÌ„fesseth this signe of the crosse to be except yt be better with them then it was with the Papistes Or howe may the faithful in this estate ioyne vnto them And nowe yt would be knowen of Mr. Giffard seing he in his owne iudgment condeÌ„neth these Symbolical Seremonies howe he dare thus presumtuously breake CHRISTES institution in deliuering them after the maner prescribed and ioyne vnto those men that enioyne those ceremonies against such of CHRISTES faithful seruants as reproue them stand and suffer againgst them Is not this most fearefully and presumptuously to tempt God to sinne against his owne coÌ„science It is no excuse vnto him to saye the best reformed Churches doe vse witnesses he meaneth God-fathers and God-mothers in baptisme For his owne conscience knoweth and iudgeth that the best Churches doe erre in so doing Furder Baptisme being publique to be deliuered openlie in th'assemblie when the whole Churche is mett together what neede more witnesses of the matter then the whole Congregation But howe wicked and impious is that lawe of their Church which forbiddeth the Parents to answere and vndertake for the bringing vp their owne children in the true faith and feare of God and driueth them to bring Popish Gossips or sureties who must both vndertake vowe and answere for their childe That he doth forsake the Deuil his workes c. What can be more vaine folish and ridiculous TO the Baptisme by weomen you answeare That it is both coÌ„demned by the cheif Gouernours of your Church and is not practized except it be among the popish superstitious ignoraÌ„t sort First we must oppose the publique lawe of your Church against those your gouernours who we suppose as confidentlie as you speake wil not proue in the plural nomber when the pointe coÌ„meth to scanning Your lawe in 3. places of your Portesse doth not onlie allowe the baptisme by weomeÌ„ but publiquelie iustifie it and maketh a kinde of necessitie of such priuat baptisme Saijng that if the child be in danger they may baptise yt at home without a Minister and that in this case they haue donne wel according to due order concerning the baptisinge of this childe which being borne in original sinne in the wrath of God is nowe by the lauer of regeneration in baptisme receyued into the nomber of the children of God and heires of life euerlasting Wherin besides that they most highlie breake prophane th'institutioÌ„ and ordinances of Christ coÌ„cerning the publique seale of this holie CouenaÌ„t in deliuering yt without a lawful Minister priuatelie in a house rashlie and vnreuerently without due order c they also consequeÌ„tly maintaine teach these popish blasphemous errors therbye That if the childe had dyed vnbaptized yt had bene damned And that baptisme is of necessitie to saluation For ells what needed so great feare haste that they would not staye to bring the childe to the publique Congregation no noâ— so much as for the Minister to baptise yt Or how could there he so great cause and so greate necessitie in the matter as their booke mentioneth if they thought that the saluation of the childe honge not vpon the Baptisme Wherbie is manifestly coÌ„uinced as also by their wordes not secretlie implyed That they hold Baptisme the cause and not the seale of saluation For ells to the infant nowe dying what good could baptisme doe Or which waye could yt be a Laver of regeneration vnto yt or receiue yt into the nomber of Gods children We had thought that the saluation of the childe had onlie honge vpon th'eternal election and predestination of God And that the seale of the Couenant had belonged ynto yt by reason of the Parents faith and is administred not as anie helpe or present benefite to the newe borne infant so much as when yt commeth to ryper age to be a contynual comfort help vnto yt BIsshopping Mr. Giffard saith is litle vsed or vrged in the Church of EnglaÌ„d being loath belike to make anie defence therof Yet it is certaine that the Priest is in his Portesse enioyned to commaund That the children be brought to the Bisshop to be confirmed so soone as they can saye in the vulgare tongue the articles of their faith c. Also in an other place of their said seruice-booke there is an expresse lawe That none shalbe admitted to the holye Communion vntil such time as he can say the Catechisme and be confirmed Howe accorde these lawes to Mr. Giffards saying that yt is litle vsed But what a monstrous matter is this confirmation of their Church where the Baptisme of CHRIST is to be confirmed of a wretched man if he were as he is nothing lesse a seruant of CHRISTE Yea that Christes faithful seruaÌ„ts whom CHRIST hath alredie publiquely baptised receyued and engrafted vnto himselfe should be kept from the comfortable table of the Lorde vntil they haue a popish Bisshop his confirmation Not here to mention the binding of the faith of the whole Church to an Apocrypha Catechisme Yet to make this their confirmation either of greater estimation or more execrable with all men they add in the second cause manie speciall vertues therof Namely that by their imposition of handes and praier such as are so confirmed by them maye receaue strength and defence against all temptations to sinne and the assaultes of the VVorlde and the Deuil Surely if this be true great is the Bisshops faulte to neglect the practise theâ—of but howe great then our sinne to blame and condemne such a wonderfull excellent ordinance But doubtles this is either too good or too bad to be true If al they vpon whom these Bisshops shall laye their haÌ„des praye ouer shal receaue strength and defence against al temptations to sinne and the assaults of the worlde and the deuil then shal al they that receaue this Confirmation be vndoubtedlie saued Yea if anie of them whome the Bisshop shal thus confirme shal receiue this strength and defence c then haue the Bisshops greater power and their prayers more vertue then eueâ— God gâ—ue to anie mortal man yea then euer he gaue to our Sauiour CHRIST himself with whom though Iudas were contynuallie conuersant his most Heauenly doctrines and holie prayers yet the Deuil entred into him and preuayled against him Though Peter were a
also yet you wil hold no part of that execrable Idoll good The Papistes hange the first wordes of the Gospel after Iohn about their necke for manie purposes shall we not saye that this or their Agnus Dei are abhominable Idolls therfore Coniurers vse diuers Psalmes and scriptures in their magical incantations diuers Collects with as litle euill as most of yours shall we nowe allowe anie part of their Coniurations are they not altogether accursed The Scriptures then we see may be abused yet no way iustifie anie part of the wicked action or naughty thing to which they are applyed The Scriptures are holy good of themselues yet when they are thus violently rent dismembred constrayned peruerted abused ioyned to these idolatries they no way iustifie any part of the vvorship but make the whole more execrable We can saye then that those Scriptures vvhich you thus prophane and abuse to your idolatries aboue-said as your idoll feastes and all your idol vvorship and ministration are in their due place true vse holie reuerend gratious But vvhen they are abused peruerted and ioyned to patch vp this idolatrie they make the whole the more execrable All the Scriptures then of God are holy pure and all the whole Masse-Booke and English seruice-Booke and euerie part therof are detestable Idolls All which Idoll and euery part therof vve can condemne and yet preserue the sacred maiestie and aucthoritie of the Scriptures All this your festered conscience blasphemous mouth could to your furder iudgment confesse in our name though Sathan that speaketh in you by and by sought to quench it by deriding our holie suffrings Our baÌ„des vnto vs are comfortable glorious vnto God and shal rise vp and be produced in iudgment with this idolatrous murderous generatioÌ„ of your horned cleargy But now to the Scriptures be you alledged If you were demaunded where you learned to mumble ouer that Scripture by you falsely caled the Lords prayer fiue tymes in your Morowe-Masse and to vse yt at all assaies to to saye yt ouer the sick ouer the deade ouer the weomen in Churching ouer the marryed c should not your holie Father the POPE be founde the aucthor of all this Also if we should aske you where you reade and how you could proue that blasphemous Article of your faith That CHRIST discended into Hel what scripture could you shew or alleadge for yt Thus are euen those thinges wherof you glorie tourned to your shame if so be that you could be ashamed of anie thing Yet howsoeuer you maye harden your heart and your face against the manifest truth by this sleight discussing of your worship doctrines and administration euen by this litle which is alreadie said all men may discerne what kinde of ministers blinde guides you be Also anie that had but once seene the Church of Rome might easilie by the â—â—ea-spotts freakes you speake of knowe her daughter of England at the first blush For as the Mother such the Daughter is in al her limbes features and proportions Hetherto we haue spoken of some odious fowle faultes and errors in perticular founde in this their worship or Leitourgie the furder examination wherof and searche of the rest that remaine we leaue to the furder diligeÌ„ce of others And nowe touching this their seruice-booke and Leitourgie in general this we saye 1. IN that they presume to giue and enioyne their prescript wordes in praier they take the office of the Holie Ghost awaie quench the spirit of the ministrie and of the whole Church stop and keepe out the graces of God thrust their owne idle deuises vpon the whole Church yea vpon GOD himselfe whether he wil or no 2. IN that bie their Leitourgie they prescribe what and how much to reade at Morne to their Mattens at Eauen c teachinge the Church and ministrie to pray by nomber stint and proportion it is not onely popish but most friuolous and vayne disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministerie 3. IN that by this their Leitourgie they prescribe vnto the Church what Scriptures publiquelie to reade and when to reade them as these Chapters and Psalmes at their mattens before noone those at after noone c On all the dayes that they haue publique meetings and seruice through the yeere and soe from yeere to yeere They therebie take from the Church the holie and free vse both of the Scriptures and spirit of GOD. They therbie conceale and shut out of the Church a great part of GODS holie worde which they reade not As also abuse without order those scriptures they enioyne to be read 4. IN that they shread rend and dismember the Scriptures from the holie Order and natural sense of their context to make them Epistles Gospels Lessons select Psalmes to their festivals and Idol worship aboue-said They most heinouslie pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonor of GOD their owne feareful iudgment 5. IN that they bring in and commaunde the Apochrypha writings to be publiquelie read in the Church They both mainetaine and publiquelie teach the dangerous errors therin contayned to the poysoning and subverting of the faith of the Church They thrust these deuises of men into the place of GODS worde causing the people therebie to reuerence and esteeme them as the holie Oracles of GOD of like aucthoritie dignitie and truth and to resorte vnto them to builde their faith thervpon and therbie they bring in an other foundation into the Church besides the high iniurie donne vnto GOD therbie 6. FInallie in that by this their Leitourgie they bring in erect and enioyne a new strange kinde of administration as is aboue proued in the perticulars They make and erect a new Gospel and so must needes also erect vnto yt a new ministrie For the ministrie of Christ is only bounde vnto and wil onlie administer by Christes Testament wherein they haue a most perfect Leitourgie for the whole administration of his Church Therfore this present Leitourgie and ministrie of ENGLAND are by al these reasons in general and perticular founde and proued at once to be counterfeite vngodlie and Antichristian His wide friuolous Parenthesis from the 17. page of his booke vnto the 47. touching read prayer and prescript Leitourgies we leaue to be discussed and refuted by an other to whose writinges we referr the Reader Leauing Mr. Giffard and the whole Church of ENGLAND touching this first pointe of their worship to be compassed about with the sparckes and to walke on in the light of the fire that they haue kindled Yet this to them of our hand they shal lye in sorrowe THE SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION IS THAT the prophane vngodlie multitudes without the exception of anie one person are with them receiued into and retayned in the bozome and bodie of their Church IN Mr. Giffard his former answere vnto this Transgression he then not being past al shame confessed That the most Churches in England want godlie
impenitent offendors may be reteyned in the Church as members This he must proue or ells all that he saith is nothing to the purpose seing we chardge their Church as heynously guilty of and wilfully obstinate in these transgressions But insteade of prouing he slilie seeketh to chaÌ„ge the question by turning yt from these open prophane and wicked to Hypocrites wicked persons which remaine in the Church whose children he saith ought to be baptized Wherin besides â—hat he beggeth the question assuming in a stronge imagination that which he shal neuer be able to proue That these parish assemblies are the true plaÌ„ted and established Churches of CHRIST and these vngodly multitudes true members therof he furder so doubleth and windeth betwixt these two starting holes the hypocrites and the prophane as one cannot knowe whereto find him or wherof he affirmeth It being graunted that the children of hypocrites ought to be baptized he wil â—hervpon conclude that the childreÌ„ of the prophane also Which if yt be denied then he wil make no conscience to giue out that we denie baptisme to the seede of Hypocrites in the Church Thus standing vpon no grownde he flitcheth fleeteth vp and downe seeking in an euil conscieÌ„ce to shifte off the truth wherwith he is pressed First presupposing that al these multitudes of prophane wicked are within the Church Then endevouring to proue that al the children of such prophane and wicked as he termeth within the Church and to professe Christ ought to be baptized Wherin before we come to the consideration of his reasons we must note vnto the reader in his Proposition expresse contrarietie error and sacriledge Contrariety in that he with the same mouth in the same senteÌ„ce pronounceth them as prophane wicked and also as faithful and members of the Churh such to whom the Covenante and the seales therof belonge Error in that he thus iudgeth and blasphemeth them if they be faithful members of the Church As on the contrarie if they be prophane wicked to iustifie their profession whilest they are obstinate in such sinnes Yea furder to harden them therin to giue the seale of the Couenante vnto their children in respect of their profession which caÌ„not be donne without open wilful sacriledge for if they be to be iudged prophane wicked then are their children also vntil they make profession of their owne faith to be held of vs as prophane the deuised writteÌ„ professioÌ„ of their Church cannot sanctifie or iustifie either the one or the other vnto vs. Moreouer the Church cannot denie to receaue those Parents or that Parent vnto the communion of the Supper whose infantes they baptize in that estate And thus by Mr. Giffards diuinitie may the bodie and bloude of Christ be prostitute to the open prophane and wicked whom he thus proueth within the Couenant THe interest of Gods Couenant saith he doth not depend vpoÌ„ their next Parents but vpon the antient christiaÌ„s their fore-Fathers For when God saith I wilbe thie God and the God of thie seede the promise is made to a thousand generations Exod. 20 So Leui paied tithes vnto Melchi-sedec because he was the loynes of Abraham Yea al the whole nation of the Iewes were in the loynes of Abraham and therfore holie within the Couenant For if the first fruictes be holy so is the lumpe if the roote be holy so are the boughes Rom. 11. Yea though manie of them were wicked idolatros reprobates yet euen in the worst tymes were they Circumcised and yt was not disalowed But the Lorde caleth the children of those wicked idolators his children Thou hast taken thie Sonnes thie Daughters which thou broughtest fourth vnto me and sacrificed vnto them to be consumed thou hast slaine my Sonnes and giuen them by causing them to passe through vnto them Ezech. 16. 21. BEhold into how manie errors mischieues and blasphemies they fal which in this maner spurne striue against the truth euerie worde becomming a snare vnto them to hold drawe them vnto their greater iudgments If th'interest in Gods Couenant as being the seed of the faithful vnto the sight of the Church depend not vpon the faith of the next parents but vpon the antient christians their fore-Fathers within a thowâ—and generations c Then ought al to be receaued and none to be kept or caste out of the Church Then is the whole world within the Couenant of the Church holie al being â—pronge within far lesse then a thowsand generations of manie faithful and lineallie come from the Patriarck Noah Then ought by this rule the Israelites vnder the lawe to haue circumcised all their captiue Canâ—â—nites and heathen that came into their power Then ought the Church nowe also to baptize all the seede euen of the most wicked and vngodlie whether Turcks Papists Idolators c because they are all â—pronge of faithful Parents within lesse then a thousand generations But because we reade in the Scriptures that Gods Couenant only belongeth vnto the faithful and the seales of his couenant are nowe only committed to his true established Church Seinglawes rules are giueÌ„ by God vnto the Church to whom and how to administer the faid seales Seing none can enter into this Church but by this true outward profession of faith obedience neither anie remaine loÌ„ger there theÌ„ they keepe the said faith and obedience outwardly Seing baptisme only belongeth and is giuen to the members of this Church and vnto their â—eede and can to none other be giueÌ„ without heynouse sinne and sacriledge We doubt not to pronownce and reiect these doctrines of this false Prophet as most blasphemous and diuelish As â—ending to the open breach of al Gods lawes and ordinances to th'vtter abolishing of the truth and feare of Gods iudgments to the taking away of al faith and godlines out of the earth to the bringing in of al Atheisme confusion to the prostituting and prophaning of the holie things of God And therfore al true Christians by the commandment of God are to auoide and hold accursed the aucthor and bringer of such doctrines and so much the rather in that he so wretchedly and bouldly falsifieth dismembreth peruerteth and abuseth the holie Scriptures thervnto AS to proue that the Couenant dependeth not vpon the outward faith of the parents but vpon the faith of their godlie ancestors he voucheth Exod. 20. I wil be thy God and the God of thy Seede the promise is made saith he to a thousand generations But he wittingly suppresseth the next wordes of the sentence of them that loâ—e me and Keepe mie Commandements which shewe to whom this Couenant is made and belongeth and the conditioÌ„ on our part As the former part of this senteÌ„ce verse 5. sheweth howe we may forfeite this Couenant Namelie by breaking and coÌ„temning the lawe of God in whose loue we cannot remaine except we remaine in his obedience Iohn 14. 21. 15. 10. So that the Lorde
most plainely in this Exod 20. 5. 6. verses declareth who whose seede are within his Couenant of loue and protection Namely the faithful their ofspring to the thousand generation so long as they contynue in his faith and obedience But if they breake his lawe and wil not be reduced to his obedience then are they and their children caste out of his fauour then as a iealous God wil he visit their sinnes vpoÌ„ their children vpon the thirdes fourthes c. How boldly presumptuously then hath this wicked man without al conscience feare falsified this Scripture in suppressing what parts therof he list dismembring rending what he alleadgeth from the natural coÌ„text peruerting and abusing these wordes to a thousand generations quite against th'expresse sense of God himselfe receiuing the children of the open wicked and vngodly which the Lord reiecteth together with their rebellious Parents into the outward Couenant of his grace and deliuering the seale therof vnto them by vertue of this place because some of their fore-Fathers haue bene faithful and the Couenant is made to a thousand generations As though the Lord plighteth his loue to vs and requireth not agayne our faith and obedience vnto him in the same Couenant Let Mr. Giffard shewe one place of Scripture through the whole Bible where the Lorde his CouenaÌ„t is made vnto vs without this condition and then peradventure he may cleare himself his Ordinarie for the publishing of this wicked and diuelish heresie so directly contrarie to the vvhole Scriptures in more then a thousand places For to vvhat end should the Lorde haue giuen vnto vs his holy vvord if he had not required of vs our heartie obedience vnto the same But because the Lorde is neuer founde contrarie vnto himself neither anie contradiction in his worde we may by the direct warrant hereof hold Mr. GIFFARD and his Ordinarie most heynouse falsifiers and corrupters of the whole lawe and worde of God most blasphemous and pernitious false Prophets That receiue into the couenant and iustifie all sortes of prophane wicked and vngodly persons And so open the doores to all Atheisme and impietie His starting hole and subterfuge of vndiscouered hypocrites will not hide or help him herein seing we complayne That the open prophane and all sortes of the most wicked and their seede vvithout exception of anie are receiued amongct them as members of their Church And seing he endeuoureth to approue the same by manie other Scriptures AL Israel saith he was in the loynes of Abraham all in the Couenant and holy with him as the boughes with the roote all within the Church by outward profession and esteemed members therof because the seedes of Abraham Yea though multitudes of them were infidells and idolators yet euen of them sprang the right holie seed And therfore as also because of their outwarde profession were all of them held members al holie And all their children in the tymes when idolatrie was openly mainetayned were circumcised and that was not disalowed c. WE doubt not speaking of al Israel in generall without anie perticular reference vnto this or that tyme or estate but that Nation was a peculiar chosen adopted people aboue all other Nations vnto the Lorde that they might be an holie Nation vnto him a kingdome of Priestes c of whom the adoption the glorie the Couenantes the giuing of the lawe the seruice and the promises We ackowledge also that the Israel of God according to th'election of grace are all of them holy with their fore-Fathers Abraham Isaac and Iacob as the lumpe with the first fruictes the boughes with the roote But yet we acknowledge not all to be that Israel which are of Israel neither all the children of the Couenant which are the seede of Abraham But they are the children of Abraham and of his couenant which doe the worckes and remayne in the faith of Abraham Otherwise their circumcision is made vnto them vncircumcision neither doe their literall titles and prerogatiues any whit auaile them but rather agrauate their iudgments whilest they are founde transgressers of the lawe The Couenant doubtles was not otherwise made vnto them then it was vnto their Father Abraham To whom yt was said be thou vpright and vvalke streight before me How often doth the Lord at the giuing of his lawe and the entring couenant with the whole people stipulate and require their faith and obedience when he promiseth to be their God and the God of their seede How oft doth he pronownce the Couenant broken and disanulled on their partes when they transgresse reiect his lawe and denownce of his part all plagues and feareful iudgments for the same euerie where through the lawe Prophets but most plentifully in the booke of Deutronomie Protesting plagues against such as when they heare the wordes of this oath blesse themselues in their heart saying they shal haue peace although they walke according to the stobbornnes of their owne heart How then should these friuolous reasons of this ignorant cauiller stand That because the Lorde speaking generally and indefinitely of his first chosing and receiuing that people sometimes caleth all Israel his people a holy Nation c Therfore all Israel in all tymes and estates of that kingdome should alwaies be his true visible Church within the Couenant c. This we see were directly contrary to the whole lawe and Prophetts Should it followe that because the Lorde reserueth in and draweth out of the loynes of the wicked his right holy seede that therfore the Parents are within God his Couenant Thus might the Turckes Iewes and most wicked of the world be iustified because the Lorde his secret electioÌ„ is not restreyned towardes them Should it followe that because all the Israelites were alwaies circumcised that therfore they were within the Couenant or were not blamed or did not amisse in prophaning God his holy ordinance So might the Isâ—â—elites Ammoniâ—es Edomites and Moabites be said within the Couenant because their ancestours and they were circumcised We see outward circumcision auaileth not when the condicion of the couenant is broken And how could this bolde blinde guide saye that it was not disalowed when all their children were circumcised in the tymes when idolatrie was generally and publiquely maineteyned Are such idolators within the Couenant of the Lord or doth the seale of his couenant belonge to them Are not the children of the wicked excepted and reiected out of the couenant by the commandement of God Exod. 20. 5. as the seede of the faithfull are receiued into the couenante Then must it needes be high presumption sacriledge thus to abuse circumcisioÌ„ and therfore yt could not be allowed in those times to such persons Moreouer when these wicked are forbidden so much as to name the name of God to bring any offrings or worship vnto him or to meddle with anie of his holy Ordinances are they
not forbidden circumcision Should we also collect and conclude because the Lorde Ezech. 16. 20. 21. caleth the children of those Idolators whom they offred to Mâ—lech his Sonnes and Daughters That therfore the kingdomes of Israel Iuda whilest they remayned in these horrible sinnes were outwardly in that estate the true Church of God Or is this great Prophet so inconversant in the Scripture that he yet vnderstandeth not this vsuall kinde of phrase and maner of speaking where the Lord in sondrie places caleth them his sonnes daughters and people in respect of their first caling whom in regard of their present euill life he pronownceth not to be his As Deutronomie 32. the 19. and 5 verse Micha 2. 7. 8 9. Amos. 8. 2. and no where more plainely then in this Ezech. 16. as were easie to demonstrate by the least touching of the argument of that chapter The Lorde there setting before their face by sondry Allegories their estate euen from their original vnto that present time Of what parents theâ— by nature sprange in what plight he founde them at the first all embrued in their mothers and their owne guiltines their navel vncut vnwashed vnsalted vnswaded caste out into the open field no hand to help no eye to pitie vnable to help themselues vntill the Lord shewed mercye tooke them vp chearished nourished them entred into couenant and sware vnto them so that they grewe vp into riper yeeres then he spredd his garment ouer them washed and anoynted them clothed them with broydred garmentes fyne lynnen silck skarlet adorned them with gold siluer pretious stones fed them with meale wyne oyle set a beautifull Crowne vpon their heade and maried them openly vnto himself and spredd their name amongest the heathen But nowe Israel waxed proude of her owne beautie plaid the Harlot built high places and decked them with her garments and plaid the whoore vpon them made images of th'instruments and of the Lordes gold and siluer which he gaue them and committed fornication with them offring the Lordes meate flower oyle vnto them as a sweet sauour yea sacrificed their owne Sonnes and Daughters vnto them committed fornication with the Egiptians Assiâ—ians Caldeans and that in most shamefull sorte and vilely hyring them with the Lordes gold siluer of his Temple c. Wherfore the Lord doth pronownce and repudiate them as an Harlot as a most filthie poysonous monstruous whore and denownceth iudgments against them as against murtherers and adulterers and these iudgments to be executed by these their louers who should breake downe their Cities and high places and slay them with the sworde the Lorde not only comparing them but shewinge them to excede SODOME and SAMARIA in sinne iniquitie c. Who then but this perverse fellowe could thus stomble and cauill at these wordes My Sonnes and my Daughters and vvrest them not onely against the whole scope of that Chapter but euen of the whole Bible Whether these wordes be to be vnderstoode of all their seede which were at the first together with them receiued into the Lordes Couenant or of their first borne only which by a peculiar right lawe were reserued vnto the Lorde Exod. 13. 2. which first borne they are blamed in the 20. Chapter of the same prophecie verse the 26. and 31. to haue offred vnto Idols may be some question Yet with no sense or truth they may be vnderstood as of the Lordes elect and adopted childeren or pronownced that holie seede being the children of such rebellious obstinate idolators How often doth the Lord call them by his Prophets rebellious children an adulterous Nation should vve therefore conclude that they vvere the Lordes children the Lordes spouse Or rather pronownce from the iust lawes of the Lorde That rebellious children and th'adulterous wife ought to be produced repudiat and put to death Deut. 21. 18. Leu. 20. 10. Furder we reade the Lorde to denownce extraordinarie speedie iudgments not only against them that offer of their â—eede vnto Moleth but against that whole Nation that dissembleth or suffreth that sinne amongst them Leuit. 20. How then could this ignorant Priest collect coÌ„clude from these wordes My Sonnes my Daughters which were spoken but to convince agrauate their sinne and iudgment to stimulate and wounde their conscience that these children of these idolators thus offred to Molech were of vs to be iudged the holy seede of the Lord within his couenant Or these idolators in this estate to be iudged the true Church of God Can they together serue God and Idols together breake and keepe the Couenant If Mr. GIFFARD can by his learning proue this true then peradveÌ„ture we shal beliue him that y â— kingdome of Israel in their schisme defection hauing erected new Temples Priests Altars Lawes were defyled with all the abhominations of the heathen despised persequâ—ted the Lorde his Prophets which were sent to them c were to be held of vs the true Church of God Then peraduenture he might persuade vs that the kingdome of Iudâ— in this apostasye hauing as this Prophet Ezech. sheweth in his 8. Chapter brought al maner abhomination into the Temple defiled the whole land as we reade in the rest of his prophecie was also by vs to be esteemed the true Church of God Is it a good reason for Mr. Giffard to say because the whole land was so throughly defiled that it could neither by ecclesiasticall censures nor by ciuile iudgmentes be purged that therfore yt remayned still the Church in that estate Is not this to say they had not thus sinned because their sinnes were incuriable That they had not committed adulterie murder idolatrie because they were not presently stoned slayne by the sworde burned But howsoeuer they their false Prophets blessed themselues in these sinns boasting of vaine titles of The Temple and People of the Lord yet the Lorde for those sinnes did in his due tymes execute these iudgmentes vpon the whole Land and in the meane tyme his lawe Prophetes spake plainely That these iudgmentes were due vnto them in this estate And as wel might this false Prophet iustifie the Iewes nowe to be the true Church of God in this time of their Apostasy wherof he speaketh because the Lorde nowe amongst and in the loynes of these wicked ones reserueth to himself an holy seede a remnant It wil not help him to say That the vyrie-yarde was not then vtterly take from the Iewes as it is now For though the Lordes time to abolish that material Ierusalem that he might bring in erect the Spirituall was not as then accomplished Though y â— Lord in his wisedome mercy and patience and for causes knowen to himself doe oft deferr his iudgmentes yet may not we therby flatter our selues or iustifie our estate whilest we remaine vnder the condemnation of his written lawe and in open wilfull breach of his Couenant Yea howsoeuer the Lorde nowe hath
vtterly broken off the Iewes for their sinnes infidelitie that the Gentiles might be gathered and grafted in by faith Yet is the Lord in his greatest wrath alwaies mindeful of his mercy and hath set a tyme wheÌ„ to cal ingraff againe the Iewes that al Israel might be saued and brought into one shepefold as yt is written But in the meane tyme it is no reason to say That because the Lorde euen in the worst tymes alwaies reserueth a remnaÌ„t in his mercy Therfore these wicked people in those euil tymes are his visible Church Or because the Lorde in the Loynes af the most wicked hath a holie seede according to his secret election That therfore these wicked parents are in the visible Church or their ofspring vnder the outward couenant Yet are these Mr. Giffards best ArgumeÌ„ts to proue Israel in their open schisme idolatrye and Iuda in their open Apostasy and idolatrie to be the true outward Church whervnto the Seales of the outward couenant belonged and were giuen euen to the seede of the greatest Idolator Yea the schisme apostasy idolatry prophanation of the holie things of God amongst these Iewes Israelites are the best and onlie groundes he hath or bringeth to approue iustifie the corrupt estate of the Church of ENGLAND and that the seed of their prophane Idolators ought to be baptized Saue that at leÌ„gth he hath founde out a merueylous knot in a rush and of the same made such a share for his Brâ—wnistes as they must needes either confesse the baptisme of their Church to be a signe of the couenant And so they all from their ancestors and their whole Church are within the couenant Or ells if they denie it fal into the heresie of the Catabaptistes and make themselues also without the couenant or ells to haue a couenant without seales But now if he wil giue vs leaue to vnlose this knot we must desire him to learne to put a difference betwixt false Sacraments and true Sacraments and againe betwixt false Sacraments and no SacrameÌ„ts The false Church hath her hyd bread and stollen waters her false SacrameÌ„ts The Israelites in their schisme and the Iewes in their apostasie stil had and vsed Circumciâ—ion This Circumcision was no true Sacrament vnto them neither sealed the Lordes couenant vnto them in that estate Yet was this circumcision true circumcision concerning the outward cutting and was vpon their repentance and retourne neither defaced nor reiterat but they were restored againe to the Temple and receiued to the Passouer As wee reade in Ezechias and Iosiahs tymes as also after the retourne out of Babilon In like maner in this general apostasie and defection from the Gospel so much fore-told in CHRISTES Testament the baptisme contynued and vsed in these Apostatical and false Churches cannot in this estate thus administered c be said a true Sacrament or seale of Gods couenant vnto them Yet concerning the outward washing yt is true baptisme and vpon their repentance and restoring to the Church the outward actioÌ„ need not ought not to be againe repeated after th'abuse therof in the false Church is purged away by true repentance Yet iustifie we not hereby anie thing donne in the false Church but cal all men by all meanes from the same willing their whole worship to be repented of left and forbidding al men vpon incurring the Lords heauie indignation to offer bring their children vnto the false Church to be baptized exhorting them rather patiently to expect and diligently to seeke out repaire vnto the true Church of CHRIST where at the handes of Christes true Ministers they may receiue the true seales of his couenant vnto their comfortes Yea assuring them that whilest they refreyne from that which they knowe to be euil and with true heartes sprinckled from an euil conscience diligently seeke to doe the wil of God as he offreth meanes they their seede are within the couenant of God although through the iniquitie of the tymes they be stil restreyned for a ceason from hauing outward baptisme so that they neither neglect or contemne much lesse abuse and prophane of heauenly an ordinance THus this learned Diuine hauing as you haue heard bestowed all his labour and long studie to proue the kingdomes of Israel and of Iuda in their schisme and apostasy to be the true Church yet to make the matter more cleaâ—e and the more easie for the Church of England he wil also proue her mother of Rome to be the true Church of CHRIST Because the Brownisâ—es hold that this land in the tyme of Poperie was not the true Church of CHRIST and that nowe they are but confuse multitudes not rightly â—ntred into couenant with God This that he may doe he holdeth it not enough to affirme with other learned Diuines That the invisible Church of GOD is in the Papacye as in all other places of the world because God hath his elect there and in al other places But he to be singular inverteth the Proposition and saith That the Papacy with the whole apostasie and all their abhominations and al that receiue the Beastes marcke and worship his image are in the Church because Antichrist doth sit in the Temple of God Thus whilest he without al vnderstanding or feare after his accustomed presumption peruerteth and wresteth the Scriptures from their holie sense according to his owne lust no merueile though GOD giue him vp into a reprobate sense and suffer him to drawe these heretical doctrines and damnable conclusions from the same to the destruction of himself and of as manie as receiue his doctrines If Antichrist may be said to sitt reigne and remaine in the Church of God Then CHRIST is not made heire and Lorde of all and set as Kinge vpon Mounte Sion Then CHRIST is either cast out of his house or made subiect vnto ANTICHRIST or diuideth with him Then the Church of CHRIST maie remaine subiect vnto and be gouerned by Antichrist Then the Church of Christ may stand vnder be subiect vnto two heades CHRIST and Antichrist Then CHRIST is not the onlie head of the Church If Antichrists Ministers marcked seruants maie be brought into set ouer the Church of God then is not CHRISTS Ministrie which he hath instituted to his Gospel and his Church permanent vnto the worldes end but variable at the wil of man Then may the Church of God caste out Christes Ministrie and receiue Antichrists If Antichristes doctrines lawes may be brought set vp remaine in the Church TheÌ„ Christ is not the onlie Prophet Lawegiuer Then may the Church be builte vpon an other foundatioÌ„ then vpon Gods worde If al Antichristes abhominations heresies idolatries may be brought into remaine in the Church of God Then no blasphemie heresie apostasie or anie thing that man caÌ„ commit or deuise caÌ„ breake the couenant TheÌ„ may the Church of God
to be abhorred at the same instant Or what kinde of Couenant this is that hath one true authenticke seale an other forged and adulterate annexed vnto yt Furder also we would knowe if the baptisme of the Church of ROME be a true and holy Sacrament whie they should inhibit any from fetching the same there and how they dare schisme from that Church that hath the Couenant sealed and confirmed vnto them His second reason of some in al kingdomes that hold the faith is aboue shewed not to iustifie but to condemne the Church of ROME But all those that had any communion with them in their worship c in the tyme of Poperie cannot in this estate be said to hold the true faith or to be members of the Church of CHRIST His third reason concerning the infantes is yet as false fonde as the rest For neither are the infants of these idolators by vs to be iudged holy or to receaue baptisme as he himself Pag. 49. confesseth Neither can these infantes anie waie iustifie their wicked Parents or the open idolatries c of the Romish Church Againe although it be most true that the truth was before error and apostasie yet herevpon it followeth not that error apostasie are of in the truth as this man would conclude of Antichrist That because he is said to rise in the Church of God and to sit in the TeÌ„ple of God Therfore the place where he now raigneth rageth is the Church of God But by all these rules of the word of God we finde the Sinagogues that Antichrist hath erected to be of the false malignant Church and the Church of ROME pronownced by God himself to be that great Whore Howsoeuer then Antichrist might haue his original and worcke in his mysterie in the visible Church yet as soone as his wickednes brake out and was apparant he forfeited his place was to be caste fourth as the Angells that sinned were precipitate out of heauen and cast headlong into Hel. Yea those Churches that neglected thus to doe and spared him in the iust iudgmeÌ„t of God lost their happie estate became guiltie of his sinne and partakers of his iudgment and fel away with him So then this phrase of Antichrist his sitting in The Temple of God might be much better vnderstoode then thus grosly to affirme thervpon that Aâ—tichrist now sitteth in the Church of God Whether we vnderstand this his sitting in the Temple of God as in regarde of his original before he was reueled Or in that he should sit where sometimes the true Churches of CHRIST had bene which he should so destroy waste as there should be no shape or steppes of any of them left vpon the earth as it was foretold Math. 24. 29. Reuel 6 14. Or ells of those counterfeight names and titles of the Temple Church of God which the false Church should arrogate and take vnto her self Howsoeuer nothing is more sure then that all these abhominations cannot remaine in the Church of God And in that it is in the same verse said that Antichrist shalbe lifted vp aboue all caled God or that hath veneration This cannot be donne by any Minister in the Church seing euerie soule must be subiect Furder also that he should shewe himself that he is God If this also should be liteâ—ally vnderstoode what blasphemie will not ensue And aswel might it from the same verse be enforced that Antichrist is God as that the place where he raigneth is the Temple of God THus hauing finished hisâ— cardinal reasons of Israel in their schisme Iuda in their apostasie and this vniuersall falling away and corruption in the time of Poperie to prooue the Church of England aswell as these the true Church of God he at length addeth a conclusion in this authenticall assertion of his owne The Church of England in the tyme of Poperie was a member of the vniuersall Church and had not the being of a Church of CHRIST from ROME nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by separating herself from the Romish Sinagogue c. If he here meane that the Lord had his secret ones chosen and knowen vnto himself in England in the tyme of Poperie which were members of the vniuersall Church vve graunt vvel But what were this to approue the generall estate of England in the tyme of Poperie when they were throughly infected with the apostasie and idolatrie of the Church of ROME to be a visible member of the vniuersal church So that albeit they had not their being a Church from ROME yet they had their not being a Church from ROME when they were defiled with their apostasie and idolatrie Wherfore to haue this conclusion passe yt had beene needfull that Mr. GIFFARD had approued made euident demonstratioÌ„ by the Scriptures that the Church of ENGLAND was rightly gathered vnto and established in that holy faith and order which CHRIST hath left vnto his Church in vniuersall and perticular according to the rules and examples in his Testament Then that in tyme of Poperie they fel not away from this holy faith and order And that nowe they contynue and faithfully walke in the same faith and order This if he had donne then had he proued that which now he beggeth and assumeth Then had he powerfully convinced and stopped the mouthes of al Schismaticks and gaynesayers for euer But with al his learning and labour he hath not enterprised neither euer is able to proue this by Christes Testament The tyme past estate present of their Church of England witnesse the contrarie vnto his face and shew vnto all men how dieplie yt hath bene and still is infected with the Romish idolatries apostasie from the Testament of Christ and in what sort they haue at this daye caste forth the tyrannie yoak of Antichrist with his abhominations idolatries heresies false Worship false Ministerie and false gouernement c. He therfore in steade of approuing his Church by the rules of Christs Testament striueth to proue yt a true Church though yt consist of prophane multitudes neuer as yet rightly gathered vnto or established in the faitâ— and order of Christ though yt haue not Christs Ministrie and Officers which he hath appoynted vnto the Church but that false and antâ—christian Mâ—nâ—strie which the POPE erected vsed and left Though yt be gouerned not by the rules of Christes Testament but by the POPES Courtes Cannons c and such lawes as these Romish Bishopps doe deuise Though yt worship God after a Popish and most idolatrous maner though yt reiect the truth of God and persecute all such as call them vnto or stand for the same And this most barbarous and diuelish assertion he striueth to confirme by the schisme of Israel the apostasie of Iuda and the vniuersall defection and corruption of Poperie Vnto which our finall answere is that if anie of these 3. be iustified and finde mercie before the
subuerteth destroyeth and corrupteth the whole order coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Churches openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes prophanenes of maners and conuersation wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted prosecuted censured they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance erecting their owne deuises al sinne aboundeth ouer-floweth and no sinne though obstinatly held persisted an is iudged to deserue this censure Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship so the greatest sinnes wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes But vnto this their Consistory againe They that thus shall erect advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge a Mother ouer others their Sisters must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie one perticular Pastor y t must be a Iudge a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from Or at leaste how then they can coÌ„demne that Apostatical Sea of ROME and that vnholy Father y â— sitteth therin And let Mr. GIF that is so wel skilled in discipline so derideth our ignorance now at length coÌ„sider better of this reason Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgressioÌ„ to censure the sinne and to excoÌ„municate the obstinate offenders c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ neither in themselues in perticular nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ. And let him y e next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristiaÌ„ Bishops Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better Our answeare then vnto his second question is That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced founde obstinate belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristiaÌ„ maner but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God wherbie they make the magistrates together with theÌ„selues guiltie of murder declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie free wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and heweÌ„ their antichristian hornes by statute heere in tâ—is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude howsoeuer their tongues are not restrayned therbie froÌ„ pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel which they cannot and dare not vâ—dertake to convince heresie and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities Hereticks Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie we answeare That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is Furder we answeare That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or â—o execute the publicke dueties of the Church but to instructe stir vp and confirme them in their duties to help them to decide controversies to shew them the rules of Gods worde and not to breake them or to make newe Moreouer we saye That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled as occasion requireth Yet ought euerie christiaÌ„ to vse this power and libertie aright not disturbing the holie order of the Church presuming to speake before their auntients or against anie thing by them said without shewing iust cause c alwaies keping theÌ„selues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al and iudged of al as a disturber NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND namely the Priestes repelling notorious offenders the open Wicked from the Sacrament Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warraÌ„t he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication Answeareth that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication And for the Minister that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs To beware of that which may giue publick offence bring the holie mysteries into coÌ„tempt Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund it is needful that we make a litle â—urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension and how neere yt commeth to excommunication We finde that such as before were partakers of are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne wickednes by the Priest alone Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST The breade which we breake is it not the CommunioÌ„ of the Bodie of CHRIST Because we manie are one breade one Bodie for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members This their suspensioÌ„ then being a publick â—emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ and from al benefite of his death From the communioÌ„ of the Church and froÌ„ al interest of the Saincts We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication and what excommunication is more If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with
administration of prohibition from the Sacraments The vanitie and follie of this idole suspension most plainely appeareth vnto al men by the litle good it doth in anie of these Parrishes where al prophanenes and iniquitie stil aboundeth The Bishop his Chauncelor or Commissary may with one worde of their mouth heale the greatest wounde the Parrish-Priest can make with this Suspension whatsoeuer Mr. Parson saye They haue power to absolue anie that he bindeth and how cheape their absolutions are is not vnknowē to anie whore master in al the Parrish The Bishop hath power to make and to depose Ministers at his pleasure he hath power ouer the whole ministration he prescribeth howe whē to whom they shal administer What truth then is in these wordes that the Bishop cannot take away that power which their seruice-booke giueth them when he may absolue the partie disanul the suspension depose the Minister c. In that he saith the Bishop is but a Minister and no Lord ouer their faith and conscience The same will euerie Popish Priest say of their soveraigne Lorde the POPE to preserue the dignitie of their ministerie The POPE writeth himself but the seruant of the seruants of God What Lordlie authoritie the Bishop hath exerciseth and in what seruile subiection the Priestes all the Parishes stand vnto their Courtes iurisdiction shal hereafter more appeare when we come to the discussing of those poyntes In the meane while we willingly assent vnto Mr. GIFFARD that the christian reader shall iudge whether their seruice-booke be not a fit Portesse for such Priestes and this suspension a fit toole for such worckmen Still affirming euen with wonder that if the iudgmentes of God were not vpon their right eye and vpon their right arme they might perceaue how their Lordes the Bishops dresse them and how this weapon they allowe them wanteth both edge and poynte c. Thus hauing finished his answeare to our assumption he procedeth to a former answeare where he denied the Consequence That where wicked prophane men are receiued into reteyned in the bozome of the Church there the couenant is disanulled with them and they are no longer Godes people but a false antichristian Sinagogue To disproue this he alleadged that there were but fewe true worshippers that frequented the Temple amongst multitudes of prophane vngodly men To this he now addeth the examples of the Church at Corinth and of the seuen Churches in Asia c. We before answeared stil answeare that there is no comparison betwixt or Argument to be drawen from those Churches which were rightly gathered established and these confused Bibilonish Synagogues of theirs The Israelites were a peculiar separated people vnto the Lorde from the worlde The people of these other Churches were wonne caled and gathered vnto CHRIST by the preaching of the Gospel euery one entred into the Church by the voluntarie professiō of his owne faith No vncircumcised or Gentile might enter into the Temple to offer any gift there All nor yet the greater part of the Citie of Corinth nor of these other parts of Asia were not receiued into the Church as members But here in their Church of England al the whole land is receiued in and that immediatly from open idolatrie without any voluntarie professiō of their owne faith by the people in perticular yea without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them vnto the faith Therfore in these reasons he but beggeth the questiō and assumeth that which he ought to proue Namely That these multitudes of all the prophane al sorts of wicked persons were sometymes rightly gathered vnto and entred couenant with the Lorde hauing the true ministrie gouernement of CHRIST set ouer them and nowe being fallen into some sinnes are not cast out but stil retayned in their Church This if he had donne then had there bene some cause y ◠he might haue brought against vs th'examples of these Churches Then should not we haue needed to haue shewed him his follie twise Yet this if he had donne the contrarie wherof is manifest to al that remember the beginning of her Maiesties raigne or but behold the present estate in the same or rather in more confusion sinne being more encreased Yet then we should easily haue put difference betwixt those Churhes that amēded at the Apostles admonition and these which reiect all the rules ordinances ecclesiastical of CHRISTS Testament as pernitious and intollerable to th'estate of this land and persecute al such as admonish them of and will not partake with them in their idolatrie sacriledge WE also in our former writing shewed him how the faithfull seruants of God in the idolatrous dayes of Kinge ACHAS MENASSE AMON IEHOIAKIM c refrayned from the Temple being so polluted and defiled and mixed not themselues with the wicked in idolatrous worship This Mr. GIFFARD confesseth to be true and that it was theire duetie so to doe But he saith we do not argue whether the godly did ioyne with the wicked in idolatrie but whether the wicked were suffred and did ioyne with the godlie in true worship To the question we haue aboue spoken Only this by the waye we drawe from his owne confession That if the godly in those dayes did wel in separating from not cōmunicating with the wicked in those times of publick idolatrie then cānot we be blamed which separate withdrawe our selues from these prophane assemblies where such abhominable idolatrie and sacriledge is publickly vsed and enforced as we haue aboue proued and thus are we by him cleared and iustified Againe we convince him of his owne mouth thus If the faithfull did well in those tymes to withdraw and separate themselues from the wicked in their idolatrie which then was publickly set vp Then was not the publick estate of the Iewes in those tymes of vs to be held the true Church of God For the godly maie at no tyme separate from the true Church of God nor repayre vnto the false Church And thus by himself is an end put at once to all his cauils wherbie he hath endeuored to prooue the Iewes in these most corrupt tymes to be the true outwarde church of God and to accuse vs of heresie that affirme where such heynous transgressions are obstinatly defended persisted in by the whole Church there the Couenant vnto the iudgmēt of the faithful is disanulled there the faithful may not communicate And verie ignorant is Mr. Giffard if he thinck that the wicked and prophane may either be receiued into the Church or retayned in the Church as members The wicked prophane which were neuer entred into the Church may ought to be caled to heare the ministrie of the worde of God in the Church as the meanes wherbie they may be caled vnto the faith and so vpon their profession be receiued as members into the fellowship cōmunion of the Church But vntil they make open voluntarie
they haue left as an absolute patterne for al actions of the Church vnto the worlds end and to hold them accursed men or Angels that teach any thing besides that or to varie from the same Neither what signes or miracles soeuer they shall doe may we hold them Propheâ—s seing they persuade yea enforce to idolatrie apostasie as by their publick worship appeareth And as to Euangelistes that office is too meane base for these fellowes The Euangelistes toke their caling sending and whole directioÌ„ from the Apostles neither swarued from the same in any thing but faithfully deliuered to the Churches those rules they receiued and assisted theÌ„ in the practize therof These men in that they haue no such caling to their office neither doe so execute yt not caling the Church vnto or helping them in but drawing them from vtterly forbidding them the practize of those rules ordinances the Apostles left teaching bringing in setting vp and inforcing their owne or other humane deuises ordinances vpoÌ„ y e church in stead therof and that in such high waightie matters as the bringing in a new strange Ministrie Ministration Worship and Gouernement For all which causes reasons many other which might be drawen from the rules of CHRISTS Testament and their whole worke and doings which in nothing accordeth to the true patterne we must hold them false Apostles and Prophets counterfeite Euangelistes deceiptful worckmen builders Neither yet if we but as fleightly examine them by compare them vnto the rules of Christes Testament shall we finde them to execute any of the ordinarie permanent offices of the Bishops belonging vnto Christes Church as the Pastors Teachers Elders office A true christian Pastor ought to be chosen of some one peculiar flocke where after due proofe he is to be publickly ordeined receiued Vnto which peculiar flocke he is bownde by couenaÌ„t to administer attend Neither doth his Pastorall dutie ministrie and chardge extend to more flockes or Churches at one tyme then that one wherof he is chosen Pastor Neither may a true Pastor aduance himself either in titles or power aboue or ouer other christian Pastors his fellowe bretheren howsoeuer he haue receiued a greater measure of giftes by so much he ought to behaue himself the more lowly and to apply himself the more carefully diligently to serue the Lord with the same according to his pleasure appoinctment within the limites of his caling wherin if he behaue himself faithfully he receiueth praise if not reproofe censure of the whole flock accordingly But now these Arch and Lord Bishops neither haue any certaine ministrie ouer or in any one peculiar flocke neither anie such 〈…〉 by or in any one Congregation but are elected either by the 〈◊〉 Colledge of the Deane Chapter or ells by the Prince consecrate invested inthronised or instawled with I know not how manie popish rites trincketes ceremonies belonging thervnto whose verie ordinarie attire is so popish ridiculous and fâ—nde as they passe not in the streates without the wonderment skorne of young and olde Their ministerie also is not limited and tyed to one certaine office or to one certaine flocke but as they exercise sondrie offices so doe they it ouer in sondrie Churches preaching administring the Sacraments where and when they liste of their pontifical aucthoritie and ceasing againe from preaching c. at their owne pleasures when how longe they list Againe some of them exerciseth absolute aucthoritie ouer al no one of them but ouer many hindreth Churches Ministers ouer all causes and doctrines to cite sommon suspend silence excommunicate absolue emprison â—equester conâ—iscate at their pleasure whom and wherfore they liste without accompt or controlement no not by the Princes royall Writts and Courtes to which euery soule ought to be subiect They impose vpon all Churches and Ministers their owne deuises for the publicke worship administration stinting and limiting the Pastor what wordes to reade and say what scriptures to reade on this and that daye through the yeere They limite and restraine the doctrine of the Pastor from speaking against anie thing by publick aucthoritie commanded They determine and dispose of all the doctrines and causes of all Churches at their owne will no man so hardie to gaiâ—e say or to cal in question anie thing they affirme or to denie anie thing they commande or forbid There is nothing iudged error in the Church of ENGLAND but what they iudge to be error be yt neuer so grosse popish blasphemouse nor anie thing compted truth which they pronounce error be yt neuer so holy sounde and warranted by Gods worde The whole ministrie doctrine publick administration causes and censures of the Church of ENGLAND are wholie in their handes to commande restraine or execute vpon al persons and they themselues subiect to no reproofe liable to no censure Now let any iudge that knoweth what belongeth to the office entrance and administratioÌ„ of the Pastors office whether these Bishops possesse this office be rightly caled and entered to the same and faithfully administer execute the same The teachers office for the reasons aboue-said they cannot hold or chalendge both in regarde of the fastuous titles inordinate power and aucthoritie which they vsurpe exercise ouer all the ministerie euen such as they cal Pastors and ouer all Churches causes censures c which can at no hand be ioyned or agree vnto the christiaÌ„ Teachers office As also for that they their ministrie and office belongeth not to any one peculiar Congregation The like reasons maie be drawen from their Popish entrance and administration seing they take vpon them to deliuer the Sacraments and attend not vnto doctrine only or diligently giuing ouer ceasing to preach wheÌ„ they list neither submit the doctrines they teach to the ceÌ„sure tryal of other Prophets by the Scriptures For al which reasons and sondrie other they cannot be said to haue or exercise the christian Teachers office Last of al the office of gouerning Elders they haue not for all the same reasons In that they are not chosen of belong not vnto any perticular Congregation to which they should be bownde by duetie to attend Neither euer did we reade in al Christes Testament of any Bishops or Ministers setting aside those temporarie offices of Apostles Prophets Euangelists that where chosen did attend or minister vnto diuers or more then one Congregation or office at one time Certaine rules being there giuen for their election ordination and administration of in one Congregation with manifold admonitions exhortatioÌ„s to sture them vp vnto diligeÌ„ce labour and watchfulnes in that office place they are caled vnto as a worke enough for him that thinketh himself most able to dischardge it And sure most monstruous impossible it were for one man faithfully to attend diuers Congregations Except they can also
Ministrie and ministration they are all like to proue as wee haue affirmed them strange false forged antichristian such as belong not vnto and cannot be exercised in anie christian Church and then let Mr. Giffard see whether that grieuous conclusion will follow and fal vpon the men vpon whom the marcke of the Beast is â—ownde that ministrie which is ordayned by proceded from and standeth vnder the throne of these antichristian Bishops In the meane while let vs in a verie few wordes consider of the rest of the ministerie in the Church of England in their order WE would gladly learne of him what office in the Church of God Chancelors and Commissaries may be said to exercise for we confesse that in Christes Testament we neuer read of their names or offices they are strangers there and we in all the worlde knowe not from whence they came or who brought them into the Church if not their Father the Pope or durste there retaine them but these his children successors the Bishopps A lardge power they haue and exercise ouer all parrish Churches their Ministers and Members to keepe a iudiciall Courte to cite coÌ„uent trie punish by muâ— ct iudge imprison absolue purge not only for ecclesiastical causes as the neglect of their ceremonies and trinckets and for not duelie reading and obseruing their iniunctions seruice-booke but also for ciuile causes yea criminatory and iudicial causes such as by the lawe of God deserue death and only belong to the Princes royall aucthoritie to whom therfore God hath committed his sworde Whose iudgment seate aucthoritie for anie priuate person to vsurpe is iudged rebellion both by the lawe of God and of this land For all that take the sworde shall dye in the sworde Math. 26. 52. Againe these Chauncelors and Commissaries are Ciuilians laye men as they cal them not Priestes therfore we meruaile how they came to exercise such an high ministrie ouer and in the Church The same we say of their other delegate ciuile Doctors of their Courtes trayne of Aduocates Proctors Registers c. We finde in the TestameÌ„t of Christ no mention in the Church of Christ no vse of such Offices Officers Courtes to decide their coÌ„trouersies to execute their censures iudgments These handle both ecclesiastical and ciuile causes mixtlie after a most corrupt and litigious maner amongst whom al things are venal in their Courtes c wherof in due place sufficeth it here to finde them in name office and vse counterfeit forged false without mention or warrant in Gods worde such as not Christ but Antichrist deuised brought in As to the persons in their high commission they are of two sortes chieflie ecclesiastical and partlie for countenance and fashion sake ciuile Of the ecclesiastical we haue aboue entreated Neither finde wee that anie ciuile person may exercise anie ecclesiastical office or function as to ouer-see so manie Churches to decide and determine ecclesiastical causes or to execute the censures of the Church as by way of office or by vertue of anie humane commission especially after that vngodlie maner which is in al things so contrarie to the order Christ hath instituted so contrary to the faith power and libertie of Christes Church as were not hard to shewe if we should examine their procedings by the rules of Gods worde And great ruth it is that so noble and honorable personages should be so highly abused by these wicked Bishops The Lorde in mercie shew them their deceipts the error and daunger of their wayes Yet of this gouerning ministrie remayneth the Arch head Deacon of the Church of England to be considered of who is no smale officer of this Church hauing and keeping his solemne iudiciall Court Synode and procedings in such ecclesiastical causes as fal within his consideration with absolute power in his owne name also to cite sommon iudge and punish all such parish Churches with their Parsons and Ministers as fal within his limites To impose taskes vpon Pastors what scriptures to reade priuately euerie daye what to conne by heart and to take accompt of them at his Synodes accordingly This Arch-Deacon also if such be his learning that he can may administer the worde and Sacramentes and haue a benefice or two for neede Howsoeuer he may pleade and boaste of his antiquitie aswell as the Arch-Bishop and of the great cause of his erection and necessarie vse of his office c. Yet seing we finde no mention of his name or vse of his office in all the Testament of CHRIST seing we finde there no such Heade Arch-Deacons with such stately Courtes and absolute iutisdiction and that not ouer many Deacons but manie of their Pastors yea manie whole Churches we must or rather the Lorde hath giuen the same sentence of them that is giuen of their fellowes aboue-said That they are not the ordinance or ministrie of CHRIST but of Antichrist euen the heades and limbes of that Beaste that wilbe held within no limites or boundes in no order or callings but breake corrupt and confounde all lawes boundes order and offices as they luste CHRIST himself is the only heade of all his Ministers whether Pastors Teachers Deacons c and they againe his members of their part The christian Deacon is to attend to the faithful collection and distribution of the benâ—uolence of the Sainctes and not to such Court-keeping ouer the Church ministrie and Sainctes He is to attend in his function to that peculiar flocke wherof he is chosen a Deacon and not in this maner to intrude and incroach vpon manie Churches A christian Deacon is to kepe himself within the boundes of his owne office in sobrietie and not to intermeddle with the Pastors office also with the ministration of the worde and sacramentes yea to exalt himself and vsurpe power and iurisdiction ouer his superiors not only ouer many Pastors but ouer manie whole Churches Thus haue we taken a superficiall veiwe or rather as yt were a sodaine blush of the reigning Ministerie of the Church of England leauing the furder inuestigation and demonstration of the manifold deformities therof to their furder diligence to whom God hath giuen greater knowledge and opportunitie leauing place also vnto Mr. GIFFARD or anie of that false hierarchie to make defence and iustification of these poyntes wherin they are here chardged by the worde of God Which if they can doe then let them be held excused and vs iustly chardged with impudent and wicked sclander In the meane while I haste to the second sort of their Ministrie THe next sorte of the ministrie of the Church of England is the Collegiat or idle Ministrie which may be diuided or rather distinguished because sometimes they are mixed ioyned one man being a master of a College and a Deane a fellowe of a house a Prebend and each of them haue a Parsonage or two for a neede into these two kindes Academical and Cathedral The third sort
the Monastical being by the hand of God and the Magistrates sworde cut off suppressed These Academical Diuines liue haue their education degrees in the Colleges Halles and Celles of the two Vniuersities The originall corrupt customes vse of which places it is not mie purpose here to discourse Neither indeed haue I skill aright to discusse whither and how they sprange from the Heathens or from the Papistes Only this I dare affirme that from the Booke of God they neuer diriued these their Colleges Scholes Hales Orders Degrees Vowes Customes Ceremonies Attires that I say not their Artes Aucthors exercise and vse of their learnings disputations commencements c. But as they haue receiued them ells where so haue they euer belonged to an other heade and kingdome and can by no meanes in this estate they now stand haue tyme out of minde continued be made to accorde to the Gospel and kingdome of CHRIST wherof these Vniuersitie Diuines haue euer bene the professed and most bitter enemies furnishing Antichrists hoste in all the roomes and places even from the POPES chayre to the parish Priestes pulpit or pue with fresh seruitors continually corrupting the pure fountaines and peruerting the text it self with their gloses paraphrases notes figures c fighting with their schole learning vayne artes philosophie rethoricke and logique against the truth and seruantes of God striuing herebie to vphold Antichristes ruynous kingdome and abhominable wares which these marchantmen set to sale for gaines as we by present experience see nowe their portion and idle monasticall life beginneth but euen a litle to be reproued by the light power of the Gospel how these crastes-men these Vniuersitie Clarkes rage and take on and with their schole learning seeke to tourne away the euident truth of God to colour and plead for all the abhomination sinne of the tymes to heale the wounde vphold the throne of the Beaste to rend reproch and blaspheme such as speake and witnesse against it as their vituperious vnchristian and erroneous Bookes which they daily publish declare Neither is their education and learning if they be dulie examined such as is required in the holy Ministerie of CHRIST All of them as is said being nourished euen from their Cradles vvith the milke of superstition instructed in the Scholes of heathen vanitie brought vp in the Colleges of more the monkish idlenes and disorder exercised in vaine and curious artes vvhose diuinitie is by tradition c. The truth of these things Mr. GIFFARD not being able to gainesay seeketh to shoffle off with a bold boasting chalendg against men vnto himself vnknowen vpon the dispence of bearing the shame if he finde not in the vniuersites many Bacheloâ—rs of Arte far exceeding in the knowledge of the liberall artes the 3. tongues Hebreaw Greeke Latine or in sounde iudgment of diuinitie eueÌ„ the principall Masters of Brownisme which if it could in so fewe yeeres be obtayned with more then monkish idlenes then may the Brownistes in some thing be belieued First we giue him to weite that there are of those he calleth Brownistes sondâ—ie of greater contynuance and that haue as high degree in those scholes with as high commendation as himself although they boaste not of such thinges wherof they ought to be ashamed Then that there are as manie of his bretheren the Monckes that thinck themselues as skilfull as himself or the greatest Clarke in the vniuersitie But nowe in all this what will our ignorance help him or their store of learning shewe that they haue not bene and are not thus imitiate and brought vp In their grammer scholes it cannot be denied but they learned and learne the latine tongue from the most heathenish and prophane aucthors lasciuious Poets c which are allowed with the priuiledge of the Church of ENGLAND as most christian rudiments to be taught the youth in the publicke scholes When they haue passed all those formes and can both say much of those aucthors by heart and vse their phrase then are they sent to the Vniuersitie to learne the artes and to be instructed in philosophie c hitherto it cannot be denied but heathenisme and such execrable idolatrie as is found in those aucthors is wrytten engrauen vpoÌ„ the tables of their hearre and filed vpon their tongue euen from their infancie Wel and when they are come to the Vniuersitie there are they first salted as they call it in their College and matriculate in the publick scholes solemnely sworne vpon the Proctors booke to keepe their mothers statutes and secretes and not to reueile her mysteries or teach her artes anie where but in the Vniuersitie Then are they instructed both publickly and priuately in Logique Rethorick in the Elenches and Topickes in the tropes and figures of all kindes wherein they must be perfect for these artes are of speciall vse vnto them and to serue at all assaies Then procede they to philosophie there Aristotele is Autos eipe amongst them out of whose mouth and writinges they fetch their positions axioâ—es definitions aphorismes distinctions c. out of his Ethickes Econonickes and pollitickes they feth the order gouernement of their maners priuate estates and coÌ„mon wealth He yet furder instructeth them of the Soule of the worlde in lardge special bookes Of the heauen of natural supernatural thinges of Nature Fortune the eternitie of the worlde and perpetuitie of all the creatures in their kinde in Specie of the regions of the ayre and seuerall thinges in them contayned the Meteores there learne they the causes of the rainebowe the making of the windes cloudes and of the whole skye far otherwise then is set downe in the Genesis Yet leadeth he them higher and sheweth them the celestial spheares planets starres quintessences even from the Mone to their Caelum crystallinum empiraeum and their Primum Mobile with their seuerall places dimensurations motions and Motors yea yet learne they more secret thinges with their constellations radiations influence predominatioÌ„ according to their signes houses oppositions aspects ecclipses c. wherbie most strange and wonderfull thinges are prognosticate and foretold concerning the weather and ceasons of the yeere the estate of kingdomes the diseases dangers to come c concerning natiuities tymes of death commonly caled fortunes concerning things to come or things past stollen lost founde c. These thinges it were frensie if not blasphemie to call vayne and curious artes Mr. GIFFARD would neuer beare it at the handes of such blinde schismatickes whose bane such deipe learning is seeing these sciences are vulgarely taught studied practized allowed and maintained not only in the vniuersities but of the whole Church of ENGLAND as by their yeerely prognosticatioÌ„s euerie where to be sold is to be seene These studies artes we may not call perierga Curious because Mr. GIFFARD saith Luke speaketh only of coniuration Act. 19. But let him approue these lawfull by the scriptures
al these Parsons stand subiect hauinge sworne their Canonical obedience to their Courtes Cannons commaÌ„dements to their sommance censure controlement for al their actions ministrie conversation to be made Ministers deposed from their ministrie silenced sequestred suspended by them The true christian Pastor as by vertue of his office intangleth not himself neither intermedleth with â—iuile actions and affayres But these parrish Parsons especialie these of the Countrie are busied and almost wholly entangled with renting tithing prowling their Parrishners whether faithfull or vnfaithfull riche or poore Widowes or Oâ—phanes they marrie they burie c by vertue of their office and are â—o all outwarde seeming and iudgment rather Rieues and Bayliffes then Ministers of the Gospel Yea if it be true which some writers of no smale accompt both olde and new haue written of them these parrish Parsons were at the first deuised and brought in to serue the Metropolitanes in the offices of Rieues and Bayliffs to gather vp their rents c. Againe the true christian Pastors office cannot be possessed by anie ciuiâ—e person But the parrish Parsons office may be and often is bestowed vpon Ciâ—ilians Phisâ—â—ons who if they weare the Priestes weedes inioyned It sufficeth Not here meaning or speaking of impropriatioâ—s which haue no office and chardge of anie Ministrie yt being transferred to a Vicare endoâ—ed Moreouer the christian Pastors office caÌ„not be kept or executed by a man absent or by anie other in that Congregation wherof he is chosen then by the elect of that Congregation But the Parrish Parsons office may be kept by a man absent executed by an Attourney or Curaeie Finnaly euerie true christian Pastor is by that his officie a Bishop But no Parrish Parson is by vertue of that his office a Bishop Therfore and for al these reasons abouesayd the parrish Parsons office can in no iuste intendement be held the true christian Pastors office NOwe let vs procede to their entrance this being first a position perpetual That euerie true Minister of the Churche must not onlie be caled to a true office but must haue a true right caling vnto that his office otherwise he is no true Minister but an vsurper an intruder a theife a murderer Euerie true Minister then by the rules of the worde ought to be thus caled Euerie perticular Congregation being a faithfull flocke destitute of some Minister for example of a Pastor ought to make choice of some one faithful christian of whose vertues knowledge iudgment fitnes and conversation according to the rules in that behalf prescribed they haue assured proofe and experience in some christian Congregation or other where he hath liued Such a one the whole Congregation being gathered together in the name of God with fasting prayer for the especial assistance of his holy spirite to be directed to that person whom the Loâ—de hath made meete and appointed vnto them for that high chardge and Ministrie In which Election euerie perticular member of the said Congregation hath his peculiar interest of assent or dissent shewing his reasons of dissent in reuerent maner not disturbing the holie and peaceable order of the Church Whose exceptions and reasons are to be considered of and compared to the rules of the worde if they be founde peremptorie and true As the partie to be of no founde iudgment in the faith of no sufficient knowledge in the scriptures a drunckarde a smiter coveteous one that ruleth not wel his owne house wife children theÌ„ yeildeth the whole Church to their reasons or rather to the word of God But if their exceptions be vnsufficient or vntrue then procedeth and standâ—th their Election and the persons that take them are publicklie reprouâ—d according to their offence This choice thus made accepted and determined the elect is to be publicklie ordayned and receiued in and of the same CongregatioÌ„ wherof and whervnto he is chosen If there be an Eldership in that CongregatioÌ„ by them as the most meete instruments with fasting prayer exhortations c if not then by the help of the Elders of some other faithful Congregation one Churche being to help and assist an other in these affaires But if the defection and apostasie be so generall as there be not anie where anie true Elders to be founde or conveniently to be had yet then hath the Church that hath power and commandemeÌ„t to chuse and to vse Ministers yea that only hath that most high and great spirituall power of our Lorde Iesus Christ vpon earth committed vnto their handes power also to ordaine their Ministers by the most fit members and meanes they haue For the Eldership doth not add more power but more helpe and seruice to the Church in this action Neither doth this action which is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement betwixt the whole Church and these elect the Church giuing the elect receiuing these offices as by the commandement of God with mutuall couenant and vowe each to other in al dueties belonge to the Elders onlie as separate from the Church but to the Elders as the most fit members and instruments of the Churche to doe yt for and in the Churche Otherwise when the true ministrie ceased as in the generall apostasie they could neuer againe be recouered in the Church because they cannot haue this ordination of true christian Elders and so must the ministrie sacraments and ordinances of Christes Testament cease for euer and the true established Churche neuer be seene againe vpon earth Vnlesse with the Papistes they â—il make a personal successioÌ„ of Ministers in some place euer since the Apostles tyme. Or with Mr. Giffard make a true publick ministrie sacrameÌ„ts c in the Church of Rome in the diepest apostasie Which yet of al other is the most absurd PropositioÌ„ that euer I suppose was vttered by anie man or published and allowed by anie Churche contrarie to al the rules of Gods worde and eueÌ„ to it self For how can there be by anie reasonable man immagined or seene publicke apostasie and publick faith in the same estate at one and the same instant Likewise if of necessity the ordinatioÌ„ must always be donne by a christian Presbutrie or Eldership we woulde then knowe of them by what Elders Mr. Luther Mr. Caâ—uine or our Englishe Bishopps in K. EDVVARDES daies were ordayned Other Elders then of the Popish Churche there were not then to be founde Now these are sure groundes that cannot be doubted of The true ministrie of Christ doth not belonge vnto and may execute no ministrie in the false Churche Neither yet hath the execrable ministrie of the false Church anie thing to doe to ordaine the true ministrie of CHRISTES Churche neither is their Ordination auaileable If then the Churche of Rome and the ministrie therof were false and antichristian then cannot the ministrie of these men which was then in that estate giuen and
condition not to preach against any thing by publick aucthority established how vngodly and enormous soeuer they be And also haue submitted their whole doctrines persons to these their Ordinances not to teach anie truth or against anie error that they inhibite to preach or cease to preach to administer or cease to administer at their direction and inhibition And for their priuate estate by them to be enioyned what kind of apparel to weare wheÌ„ they ride walke abroade or administer Not to marrie without their knowledge consent or licence euen to this or that perticular woman c. Must not this needes be an excellent ministrie and ministration of the Gospel that is thus mancipate to and by these slaues that is thus bought and solde limited prescribed restrayned when they can proue that the Gospel may be in this maner vsed in the true Churche of CHRIST or preached by the true Ministrie of Christ we wil then yeild to their whole ministration and acknowledg them the true Ministers of Christ. But in the meane while because this is impossible and cannot without blasphemie be enterprised without sinne be thought because also we finde vpon this present Ministrie of theirs euen al the markes of the false Prophet that are written in the booke and al the markes of the Beast we must hold them as they are except we wil with them condemne the truth of God and call CHRIST execrable Neither yet is this their preaching considered euen in yt self set apart from all the abuses and enormities aboue recited such as they glorie of abounding with such great learning excelleÌ„t giftes and rare graces of the spirit or answearable to that heauenly exercise of prophecie in Christes Church Of their education and learning euen from the grammer schole to the pulpit you haue alreadie hearde as also their Diuinity to be traditional wholly deriued from other mens writinges and books both for the vnderstanding diuiding and interpretation of al scriptures as also for all doctrines questions and doubtes that arise and not springing from the fountaine of Gods spirit in theÌ„selues according to the measure of knowledge faith and grace giuen them So that these dumbe blinde guides and watchmen doe but see with other mens eyes but speake with other mens mouthes and as one of their chief aucthors saith of them without these bookes they as are blinde as molles as mute as fishes not able of themselues to decide open and interprete almost anie scripture Or to discusse iudge or decide anie doubt or controversie with assurance And therfore when anie newe question vnwritten of before ariseth they are either al at a full poyncte not knowing what to saye to the matter Or ells wheÌ„ they speake so manie opinions and sentences as speakers Yea euen in the thinges they reade and teache there being so great diuersitie contrarietie amongst these Writers their aucthors there also ensueth great difference contrarietie in their doctrines which they publicklie deliuer One teaching one thing in one place an other the quite contrarie in an other And this not onlie in interpretation and vnderstanding of sondrie yea almost all places of scripture but euen in most waightie and as they call them fundamentall poynctes of doctrine As whether the Church of Rome be to be esteemed a true Churche or no The Sacraments there deliuered and the Ministrie there ordayned be â—o be held true sacraments and a true Ministrie or no. Also if the ordinances order and outward gouernment of Christes Church left in Christes Testament be perpetual of necessitie to be obserued c. And al this diuersitie coÌ„trarietie of iudgmeÌ„t publickly taught in their Church must be coloured and passed ouer with this sweete sentence of Mr. Giff. That they are but brotherly dissentioÌ„s they agree in al fundamentall doctrines A happie tourne it were that those fundamental doctrines were once agreed vpon and set downe that wee might then knowe which part of CHRISTES Testament is fundamentall and of necessitie and which is accidental and not necessarie but variable and at mans wil. In the meane while wee must stil belieue that CHRIST is not yea and naye of one minde in one place of an other ells where Neither that the spirite of God can rule in both places where such contrarie doctrines are taught and maintayned We also are taught that howsoeuer bretheren through ignorance maie doubt and differ in iudgment for a ceason yet are they no there vpon to teach such thinges as they are not assured of lest they publish and sowe errors Which who so doth be he man or Angel that teacheth any other thing or otherwise then Christ. and his Apostles haue taught and deliuered or causeth diuision dissention contrarie to their doctrine or commeth not to the wholesom wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ c wee are to hold them accursed to watch and auoide them Likewise the maner of their pulpit preaching nothing 〈◊〉 to the order of Christes Church where the Prophets I meane such as are knowen to haue the gift of interpretatioÌ„ of scriptures haue al of them libertie to speake what God reueileth vnto them besides that which hath bene deliuered so that they neither hinder disturbe or interrupte the publick ministerie of the Churche but vse their libertie opportunely holily to edification They haue libertie also yea their especial dutie it is to obserue and publickly to reproue anie false interpretation or false Doctrine deliuered publicklie in the Church by whom soeuer Yea this power hath the least member of the Church in due order and place if the Prophets and Elders should ouersee omit neglect or refuse The whole Church also euen euerie peculiar Christian Congregation hath power in yt self to censure not onlie anie doctrine deliuered but the person of anie member or Minister of the same congregation But here in these Babilonish Synagogues one Priest climbeth vp into their pulpits for orations and possesseth the place alone where he declameth deliuereth his studied tale to the howre-glasse which being runne out he must make an end for troubling his auditory and leaue no place or tyme of addition assent or dissent to anie other al the people hasting awaye In his pulpit after he hath read his text he may diuide teache or hadle yt leaue or take yt corrupt falsifie wrest or peruert yt at his pleasure In that his priuileged tubbe he may deliuer what doctrines he liste be they neuer so currupt false blasphemous None of his auditore whatsoeuer they be hath power to cal them into questioÌ„ cerrect or refute the same presently and publickly for that is by lawe forbidden But the Church is driueÌ„ to their Lord Ordinarie to coÌ„plaine and except or vntil he redresse they must hold vse him stil as their Minister In that priuileged tubbe he may inveâ—ghe accuse sclander deuounce against anie truth or person that witnesseth against their kingedome or against anie publicke
and not from CHRIST we all with our bodily eyes see the Church of ENGLAND hath receiued them We see they beare not CHRISTS but Antichrists image marcke life power What then should hinder this assertion that they together with Antichrist their heade doe growe liue raigne stand and fal as the branches with the tree Should a revoulte diuision and schisme in a kingdome within yt self No this but hasteneth the Lordes iudgmentes the sooner to make it desolate Can this revoulte and schisme either transforme or reforme this ministerie Let their present estate iudge Should Antichristes changing his shape from his mysterie to his exaltation from his exaltation to his Consumption Or his Ministers transforming and masking themselues vnder shewes and visardes of righteousnes make them euer the better or hide and defend them from the light No all thinges when they are reprooued of the light are manifest The light of the Gospel shal discouer and abolish Antichrist As he rose by degrees so shall he by degrees vanish As he and his trayne rose out of the smoke of the bottomlesse pit Reuel 9. so shall they all goe into vtter darckenes euen thether againe The Beast and the false Prophet shalbe taken by him that rideth on the white horse and his holie armie these both shal aliue be cast into that lake of fire burning in brimstone The Lord himself hath spoken yt Reuel 19. NOwe let vs see what arguments Mr. GIFFARD after more then two yeeres studie hath brought vs to approoue his ministrie by He told vs erewhile that they were true Ministers of the Gospel Pastors Teachers had a true calling and ordination Nowe come his proues The ministerie of the Gospell vvhich bringeth the vvorde of faith and reconciliation betwixt God and the vvorld is the true ministerie of CHRIST for the Diuel and Antichrist ordaine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no vvorde nor doctrine but the sacred Scriptures yt preacheth faith in God through CHRIST and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holie Sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismaticks of the vvorlde barck c. I am lothe to take Mr. GIFF. in a Parologisme at the first where reasons are so geason lest hereafter we haue no more especially lest we haue more varyance about the forme then about the matter in this yet when he shall haue reduced it to right forme he shall then but haue beggâ—d that which we demanded and still looke that he should prooue vzt That their ministrie is the true ministrie of the Gospell This because euerie true ministrie of the Gospell is in some office vnto which office there must needes be a true and lawfull calling therefore we desired him to prooue their ministrie in the office entrance c by the scriptures Mr. GIFF. giuing vs his bare worde that they are Pastors Teachers making no proofe thereof quite ouerskippeth their office and entrance and prooueth them Ministers because they doe administer As if a priuate person should reason thus I haue knowledge of the lawe I administer true iustice and iudgment Therfore I am a true Iudge a lawfull Magistrate Doth he thinck that this reason wil excuse this vsurper either before God or his Prince If he then wil haue anie better speede let him prooue his ministerie directly and plainely by the scriptures first in the office he chalengeth then in his caling vnto his office as al the Apostles and true Ministers of CHRIST haue donne and ought to doe And then if he can iustifie his administration and be founde faithfull he shall haue praise with God and man Otherwise by this balcking and begging that he should and hath bene so often vrged to prooue he but manifesteth his weaknes and forgerie in those poynctes and but to loseth as many of these preposterous argumentes as he bringeth Yet that he be not too far conceipted or any other deceiued with this argument against his next booke we giue him to wiete That the second part of his argument is a false and impudent assumption The Church of ENGLAND bringeth and emposeth an other worde and other ordinances then the holie scriptures as that deuised abhominable Leitourgie their idoll seruice-booke the rule and foundation yea the verie matter substance of their publick worship and administration their popish superstitious ceremonies and trincketts their vngodly and antichristian ordinances ministrie and gouernement To all these abhominations they ioyne or rather subiect and abuse the Gospell And therfore preach not faith in God nor CHRIST neither the doctrines of repentance truly and sincerely but denie God in their workes and CHRIST in his offices They beare the yoke of Antichrist drawe all the people vnto them souder them euen the most wicked impenitent in their sinne and iniquitie with their prayers preaching and sacramentes Not suffring any to forsake these seene sinnes and abhominations or to come vnto CHRIST but drawing and holding all the land vnder the wrath of God c. NExt he by the way maketh a learned apologie for y e dumbe Pastors of the Church of England his bretheren against whom if yt be obiected that their ministrie is not the ministrie of reconciliatioÌ„ because they cannot preach the Gospel He here setteth downe a learned note by way of two rare distinctions We must first he saith distinguish betwixt the ministrie the Minister The man may be of the Diuel and yet his ministrie of God Then we must distinguish betwixt the function yt self and the execution of the same As when the office is laide vpon one that cannot preach the function it self is entire the defect only in the execution therof Therfore the ministrie of the Church of England is the ministrie of the Gospell though some doe not and others cannot preach Sure this is so subtily contriued as men of meane iudgmeÌ„t capacitie shall neuer be able to perceiue how it is or may be brought about The first Distinction is graunted so the sinne of the Minister be secrete or not such as disableth him to the ministrie But what of this may any open vnworthie or insufficient person be a Minister Or is the ministrie of such a one good acceptable Ther is no such consequence from hence to be gathered To the second in like maner it followeth not because we may distinguish and put difference betwixt the office yt self and the execution of the office that therfore any office of the Church may be giuen to anie open vnsufficient or vnworthie person Or if yt be that the ministrie of such a one is good or acceptable For the calling of the Church cannot enhable such open insufficient to the ministrie whom God refuseth or make acceptable that ministration which God disaloweth Nowe then these dumbe Pastors that cannot preach are apparantly insufficient and incapeable of that office therfore no calling of men can make them true and lawfull
this tyme after that Gods spirit had wrought effectuallie in their and our hearts and opened our eyes to see part of his holy truth as also some of the heinouse abhominations committed defended and wilfullie persisted in in the false Church and ministrie constantlie euen to death bandes to witnesse against the same and to forsake the false Church notwithstanding al the pretextes gâ—oses and arguments the falfe Prophet shal adorne the Harlot with or make for his Ministry So deare is the loue of God of his holy truth vnto vs as we can suffer our selues neither by men or Angels be drawen into anie seene or willing transgression of his holy word And as for these arguments of Mr. Giffard what other are they then the Papistes haue brought against the first faithfull witnesses Iohn Husse Ierome of Pâ—â—ge Luther Caluine Frith â—indal c Or may bring at this daye against al the Churches that are departed from them Vnto the execution of our Ministery is ioyned the effectual grace power blessing and operation of the holy Ghoste to the true convertion of some mens soules Therfore our Ministrie is not of the diuil or Antichrist but indeed the true ministry of Christ. Ells al that haue liued thus manie hundred yeeres before you in our Church and knew not these newe learninges you hold are damned Ells all that haue died in our Church are damned yea ells you must hold al the Kinges and Princes Nobles Pieres and people in our Church reprobates c. But let vs come to your selues ye that are the aucthors of this Schisme Where had you your faith your first knowledge of God and of Christ if not in this Church by our ministrie we haue the true scriptures amongst vs we teache truly concerning the Godhead and the thee persons therof God the Father God the Sonne and God the Holy Ghost though distinct in persons yet one God c We preach Christ in his two natures verie God and verie man That he came into the world for the saluation of al mankinde That God so loued the world that he gaue his only begotteÌ„ Sonne that whosoeuer belieueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting Wee preach Christ crucified for our sinnes dead buried risen againe ascended glorified We preach him in his three offices to be our King Priest and Prophet Wee preach al the fundamental articles of our christian faith and as wee preach so you belieue al these Yea and we appeale to your consciences whether you haue founde ioy and comfort in your owne soules at the preaching of these doctrines Againe we preach the lawes of God in the tables and beate downe such sinnes as wee see to be contrarie to the same in such sort as manie are drawen to repentance to hatred sorrowe and remorce for sinne And these againe wee raise vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenes and with the promises of eternal life These things if ye schismaticks feele not yet vnto many others which by our preaching are converted vnto the Lorde indeed which vnto feare trembling doe feele the power sweetnes of the liuely worde we may say as the Apostle vnto the Corinthians in like case If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet ame I one vnto you ye are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord. And as for you Lutherans if you contynue not that is not our default if you fal from grace It is enough for vs that you haue felt this maiestie of the worde and it sufficeth to proue our ministrie that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with yâ— when men haue bene so moued though they contynue not seeing the reprobate may feele this power and taste this sweetnes for a tyme. Now then our ministry being thus proued by the law and the Gospel and by the testimony of the holy Ghost in these powerful effectes How can you thus separate from the meanes of your saluation from that ministry which hath begotten in you or at least doth begeat in others this knowledge faith comfort c Our ministrie theÌ„ being thus proued our Church must needes followe for a true ministrie doth not belong neither is at anie time founde in a false Church Yea you must graunt that whilest we hold the true foundation wee are the true Church though we erre in matters of circumstance other doctrines as you thincke yet that taketh not away our beeing of a Church The Churches at Corinth Gallatia Asia abounded with many faults errors corruptions as we reade yet are saluted by the Apostles recorded by the holy Ghost as true Churches Now that we hold the foundation our confession of the articles of our christian faith the ten coÌ„mandementes the Lordes prayer c. which you also confesse and vse shewe Therfore whilest you depart from vs you depart from the true Church Herevpon they might also vse those rethoricall flowers of Mr. GIFFARD his diuinitie to rayle reproach and invaye That they are ranck Donatistes Lutherans ignorant furious franctick schismatickes yea damnable heretickes forsaking the ministerie and truth of God condemning the Church of God bringing the holie ministerie thereof into contempt and so bring in flat atheisme barbarisme rebellion against Magistrates c. Howe thincketh Mr. Giff. would not these argumentes fit the Papistes aswell against them as they do him against vs Is he not driuen to hard shift when he must borrowe weapons of them to defend himself his Church ministrie worship gouernment They must needes stand fast when they are built vppon their groundes Let him then first answeare the Papistes to these reasons before he bring them against vs and then if he be not satisfied he shall heare what we can say to them For sure if they be not of force to bring them home againe to their Mother of ROME they wil neuer perswade vs to goe backe to them In the meane time Mr. Gif we signifie vnto you concerning this reason which you vrge and dilate That it is a ground of Anabaptistrie to iustifie open transgression by inwarde motions It is a grounde of Atheisme to pleade for or tollerate sinne because of such good effectes as you imagine to procede therof Mr. GIFFARD his next argument is drawen from our confession VVe confesse that they vvere blessed Martyres that suffred in Q. MARIES daies But thei were converted by the same ministeâ—ie vvhich vve haue now They had the same motions at the preaching of Latimer Hoper Taylor Bradford which our people haue noâ— at our preaching and Sacraments touching saith repentance and resolution to die for the testimonie of the Lorde Therfore let the Brownistes and al other wicked schismaticks barck that vve hâ—â—e no ministrie c. This reason hangeth vpon the same thread with this other last before and is built vpon the same popish and Anabaptistical grounds Touching the persons of these Martyres we haue alreadie in our first replie vnto your answeare set downe our christian opinion and iudgment Yet
can this argument of their persons no more iustifie this antichristian ministrie of Lord Bishops parrish Parsons merceanarie vagraÌ„t Preachers then it hath pleasured the Pope heretofore who had as manie godlie predecessors and Martyres to boast of as they The forgerie of their whole administration preaching worship sacramentes is furder discovered then these winde-shaken fig-leaues can hide the shame therof The truth is howsoeuer the Lord doth reserue the canonical Scriptures and some other doctrines of the Godheade the suffring resurrection and glorie of Christ of the iudgment and life to come c in the false Church and ministerie and by his secret power and wil can vse the said scriptures and doctrines to the saluation of some yet these effectes are not to be ascribed to the false ministerie or their corrupt ministration adulterate Sacraments c which haue no promise of blessing And therfore those inward motions and comfortes receaued by them are delutions without grounde or warraÌ„t of Gods worde the actions as they doe them not being acceptable but accuâ—sed in Goâ—s sight The faith and repentance wrought by their 〈◊〉 appeareth in the general estate and life of their people yea of their whose Church As to that christian zeale courage and constaÌ„cie to dye for the testimonie of the truth which he popish lie caleth Resolution and saith is wrought by their ministrie we shal beginne to belieue yt wheÌ„ they beginne to walcke in the truth and to shake off that antichristian yoke they stand vnder but whilest in this maner they betray their whole ministrie and gospel the whole power and libertie of the Church into the handes of these antichristian Bishops standing their sworne and marcked souldiours administring preaching after their prescription and limitation being bownd by oath not to preach against anie thing by publick aucthoritie established how odious or enormous soeuer but for feare filthie lucre staÌ„d ministers of al these abhominations we are warned by the holie Ghost not to be deceiued with their swelling wordes of vanitie promising vs libertie whilest they themselues stand the bond seruants of corruption And for the aucthor of these blaspheamous bookes Mr. Giffard who is apostatate fallen away euen from that litle faith and light which he sometimes seemed to haue building now againe the thinges he sometimes destroyed retourned with the dogge to his owne vomite as the washed sowe to the wallowing in the myre yea most cursedlie blaspheaming the truth of God and the poore witnesses therof as a most bitter professed enimie fighting in most hostile maner against the kingdome of Christ for vnder the kingdome of Antichrist we shal belieue that he wil suffer for the Gospel of Christ when Q. MARIE retourneth againe to persecute In the meane while we say with the holie Ghoste It had bene better for this man neuer to haue knowen the truth then after he had acknowledged yt to tourne from the holie commandment giuen vnto him YEt remayneth an other odd popish reason of Mr. G. his old store brought by him in his first answeare vnto certaine articles of ours as the onlie proof he theÌ„ could find for his ministrie vzt The affirmation and consent of other Pastors and Churches sending such as doubted to enquire of these straÌ„gers their iudgmeÌ„t of the Church and ministrie of England and in the meane tyme councelling them to suspend their iudgment This reason and councel because we reiected as insufficieÌ„t vnsounde and popish requiring rather some proof by Gods worde of themselues wherin we wholly rested and not in the opinions of men then thus to be sent in this case from the learned ministrie of England vnto strangers to knowe what they thincke of their ministerie as appeareth in our replie to which we refer y e reader for our answeare to this argument Herevpon Mr. G. in his first publick treatise against the Donatists of ENGLAND reneweth this old argument or quarrel rather by conâ—riuing this odious question VVhither the people in these controuercies ought to be sent vnto such hereticks and Schismatickes as we are or vnto the learned Pastors of other Châ—rches This question after he had thus charitablie framed he as grauelie and reuerentlie discusseth with these and such like holie christian passages See how sottishly ye cauil Blind presumptuous heretical Schâ—smâ—tickes Yours is the course of al arrogant proude heretickes and Schismatickes which couet to haue the people depend vppon them that they might haue fame Or vnto vnlearned rashe Brownistes intruding themselues without caling and running before they be sent As the harlâ—â—â— and whoores of the stewes that boast and glorie of their chastiâ—ie VVho is more â—ierce and outragious more vncharitable in condemning then ye Brownistes And yet ye bragg of such patience and charitie as can not be ouercome The Diuel counterfaiâ—ing Christes voice in heretical Schismaticks should not be able to allure and cal away the sheepe from their shepheardes c. part of 78. and of the. 79. page of his first booke How thinck you hath not this Clarcke bene wel nourtured and brought vp that can thus learnedlie deuise and handle a question and refute his aduersaries in lesse then one page of his booke He that findeth not these those mightie weapons through God to cast downe holdes and reasonings and to the captiuating al vnderstanding into th'obedience of Christ He that findeth not this that quiet and gentle spirit that heauenlie peaceable wisedome from aboue that lenitie and meeknes wherwith the Minister of Christ instructeth the contrarie minded might euen herebie doubte of Mr. G. his ministrie And see after this storme is a litle blowen ouer and he hath somewhat discharged and eased his ful stomacke in the end he alloweth of our course and councel for the tryal and proofe of their ministrie by the worde of God only and not by the opinions of anie men whoâ—soeuer Saying that it is the same in effect if we could see that himself gaue before Peraduenture Mr. G. meaneth if we could see into his minde for in his writing there was no such matter But wel seeing we are agreed of this course and tryal of their ministrie by the scriptures whie are we thus reuiled and reproched for consenting vnto demaunding and expecting this tryal yea whie is not this christian peaceable course taken this tryal and proofe made whie hath not Mr. G. at the least approued his ministrie in the Office Entrance and administration by the euideÌ„t scriptures And therby both haue approued themselues and conuinced vs before he had pronounced this balsphemouse senteÌ„ce against vs who acknowledg with reuerence euerie worde of God thervnto submitting our whole faith life to be tried corrected directed in al things which reproachful sentence Michael himself that head of Angels and men duâ—st not giue euen against the Diuel in controuercie betwixt them These controuercies betwixt them and vs being of no lesse momente then Moses bodie and none of vs
our owne Iudges in this case but al staÌ„ding to the iudgment of God by his worde ought to haue bene more soberlie and reuerentlie handled Wherein what Mr. G. hath failed wee leaue him to his accomptes before that dreadfull Iudge where the consent and applausion of the Bishops and cleargie of England shall not excuse him for al or anie of these despiteful reproches and fowle sclaÌ„ders that he hath brought vp and published in these his blasphemouse bookes vpon the Lords faithful seruantes and poore witnesses in bandes against this antichristian ministrie and their vngodly proceedings Which if here with all the deipe learning of Sathan cannot be hid or defended how should they stand before his face that hath his eyes like a flambe of fire that searcheth the hartes reynes and giueth euerie man according to his worckes And for vs seing wee finde this their whole ministrie by examining them by and comparing them vnto the rules of Christes Testament to be false forged and antichristiaÌ„ in their office entrance administration and maintenance to haue no place or meÌ„tion in Christes Church Seing vve before our eyes see them to haue serued in and belonged vnto Antichristes euen the Popes kingdome and throne the false Church with all the abhominable idolatries therin wee dare boldlie affirme and conclude That they keeping these offices cannot nowe belong vnto or serue in Christes kingdom his Church neither be kint vnto Christ as their heade But as the Holie Ghost wittnesseth of them they haue a Kinge ouer them the angel of the bottomelesse pit whose name in hebrewe Abaddon and in Greek Apollyon in all languages and places the Destroyer And as we finde them so according to the coÌ„maundement of God we leaue and auoide them turning our eye and speach now a litle to the fourth principal cause of our dislike of and separation from the Church of England THE FOVRTH PRINCIPAL CAVSE OF OVR SEPERATION FROM THE Church of England is 4 FOR that their Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiectioÌ„ vnto an Antichristian vngodly gouernmeÌ„t cleane contrarie to the institution of our Sauiour Christ. FRom this proposition is this argument manifestlie and directlie drawen No true established Church of Christe may vvillingly receiue or vvittinglie stand subiect vnder anie other ecclesiasticall gouernment them Christ hath prescribed and instituted But the Church of England vvillinglie receiueth and vvittinglie standeth subiect vnder a strange ecclesiasticall gouernment other then that Christ hath prescribed and instituted Therfore the Church of England is not the true established Church of CHRIST The chardge argument being so euidient ineuitable as Mr. G. in his first answeare whilest he stoode of the Reformistes side a sutor for Reformation durst neither for shame denie not yet for feare affirme he sought by mouing and after his maner prouing a newe question to obscure and tourne away at the least vntil he sawe furder howe the tymes would goe to shift off the present proposition that pressed so sore with such ambiguous doubtful delphicke words speaches as might be interpreted in what sense himself list And he salfly tourne to that side that were likest to preuaile carrie the creadit in the world First by way of Supposition and Admission in these wordes If it were admitted that there is some yoke of antichristian gouernement Vnder which the poore Church may groane is yt therfore no longer the spouse of CHRIST Mr. Giff hauing thus entreÌ„ched himself might issue out of this skoâ—ce and turne to which side he would As wel might he from hence haue stoode of the Reformistes faction by saying that he neuer sought to plead for or to defend this gouernemeÌ„t of these Prelates but euen in these wordes he doth affirme and pronounce yt to be a yoke of antichristian gouernement a bondage an oppression of the Church c. As now being reuoulted to the Pontifical side he saith he did but propounde it by way of question supposition admission For the present gouernment he holdeth yt the true very gouernment of Christ in substance matter howsoeuer yt haue not the same forme and be not executed in that maner which Christ hath prescribed Of which forme there is great question whether it be permaneÌ„t or variable Neither wil he meddle with the discussing therof because he wil displease neither side But this he held and holdeth That the true Church may be oppressed and remaine vnder some yoke of antichristian gouernmeÌ„t That it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage to be made to keep the vineyarde which is not her owne to be beaten of the watch meÌ„ c. Mr. Gif was answered vnto these That there is great difference betwixt ciuile bondage and ecclesiastical bondage Betwixt outward oppression or persecution and an antichristian yoke or gouernment That the Church had beene or might be in ciuile bondage vnto outwardly oppressed and persecuted by either ciuile magistrates as Pharao Nebuchadnezzar c Or by false ecclesiastical Ministers proud antichristian vsurpers as Pâ—shur Caiaphas Annanias c. But yet that the Church of God may neuer by the one or the other sorte be brought into bondage of and wittingly remaine in subiection vnto anie yoke of antichristian gouernement not euen to the least lawe tradition or deuise of man which they see to be contrary to the word of God For this was shewed to be a losse of christian libertie if they should by the will or power of anie mortal man or men whosoeuer be againe entangled in any yoke of bondage or brought in subiection of anie lawe deuise or tradition of man seeme yt neuer so holie or expedient be yt Circumcision Daies Feastes Fastes Meates c To be so coÌ„trarie to the Gospel as the truth therof should not contynue amoÌ„gst them if they should giue place to anie man in the least of these thinges by way of subiection for the space of an howre Gal. 2. 4. 5. To add vnto the worde of God to superordeyne vnto the Testament of Christ yea to abrogate the Testament of Christ. Gal. 3. 15. To worship God in vayne Mat. 15. 9. Not to hold the head but to be rashlie puffed vp in the sense of their owne fleshe Coll. 2. 18. 19. It was shewed that Christ is the onlie lawe-giuer Kinge Husband and Lord of in his Church That one kingdome caÌ„not receiue two kinges One marriage bed two husbaÌ„ds One house two Lordes so contrarie as Christ and Antichrist at on and the same instant And that one neck cannot be said to beare two yokes and drawe in them both at one instant Neither one person be a faithfull subiect wife seruant to two so diuers and contrarie Kinges Husbands Lords as CHRIST and Antichrist are CHRIST diuideth not neither hath part fellowship or communion with Antichrist There is contynual warre betwixt their kingdomes and subiectes betwixt the false and true Church the false and
against vs euen now as fresh as if he had not rayled enough or all in his writings and booke before But seing his reproches want both profe and truth they deserue neither refutation nor repetition Neither can they preiudize our holie profession or vs or anie way iustifie or excuse him before God or man but rather add to his feareful accompt before God and euidently shew vnto all men by what spirit his heart and pen were guided at the writing of these contumelious answeres Wherein yet most strange it is how he could take occasion to â—ade vs with all this vituperie for propounding these godly articles holy duties especially hauing shewed withall such iust causes of our separation from their assemblies But let vs nowe take a viewe of his reasons wherewith he hath disproued our endeuours in these articles and see whether they be of as great validitie as those wherewith he hath approued their assemblies in the transgressions by vs obiected The articles answeres and our former replie I will not here againe insert referring to the copies aboue HIs cauilling trifling about these wordes CHRISTES Kingdome in his former answeare to our first Article together with his hypocrisie in seeming to labour for CHRISTES gouernment were by vs layde open in our replie as also his vniust surmize that we should hold that CHRISTES Kingdome could not be in anie except they had that his outward ecclesiasticall gouernment was there by vs fullie answered and cleared He nowe in his second answere as vaynely endeuoreth to cleare himself of his former cauilling and hypocrisie by denijing the necessarie sense of his former wordes and by propounding two newe questions vnto vs instead of answering our two questions vnto him which we rather expected Let the indifferent reader iudge whether to all intendement he made not CHRISTES Kingdome only inwarde and his ecclesiasticall gouernment but an help for the preseruation of his inward kingedome in the first parte of his former answeare howsoeuer afterward he vouchsalfed yt to be a part of his Kingedome Vnto his contumelious blasphemous questions we answere That when he shall haue dulie conuinced vs of heresies or schisme to haue condemned a true ministrie to haue falslie accused a true Church then we will confesse our selues to be more then ignorant and rash till then all these reproches shall but followe his other sinnes into Gods sight to hasten his owne iudgment Our questions also whilest they remaine vnanswered and as we thinck vnanswerable must still lay open their bad estate and hypocrisie In that whilest they remaine antichristian Ministers in the false Church And haue so longe continued vnder Antichristes yoke and ecclesiasticall gouernment they cannot be said either to haue or sincerelie to labour for CHRISTS ecclesiasticall gouernment as he and they then pretended And here by the way I must drawe two dangerous positions and in the same obserue great contrarietie in Mr. G. vnto himself First in that they and he pretended to laboure and had so longe sued to Parliamentes for CHRISTES gouernment or discipline they confesse the absence and wante of the same For a fond thing it were to labour and sue for that which alreadie they haue Then if they wante and haue not CHRISTES ecclesiasticall gouernment and receiue an other ecclesiasticall gouernment ouer their Church and ministrie which is not his yt must needes be a false and antichristian gouernment And so they and their whole Church by their owne confession stand vnder Antichristes yoke and gouernment and haue not CHRIST their King to rule ouer them except they can shew that CHRIST doth rule in his Church by Antichrists officers and gouernmeÌ„t which I thinck will be harde to prooue and then are they and their Church in a bad estate As also Mr. G. herein contrarie to himself who erewhile affirmed this present gouernment of these BB s. their hierarchie and Courtes to be the true ecclesiasticall gouernment of Christ. And that they were not antichristian Furder he hath obserued reserued one special poyncte in our replie That the kingdome of God may be in the scattered faithfull which as yet haue not the ecclesiasticall discipline This we graunt neuer denied although Mr. G. whatsoeuer he now say then surmized the contrarie of vs or ells had smale cause so vehemently to haue refuted this opinion But we are content that yt shall now remaine to his vse THe second article of seeking Gods true worship he granteth that al men ought to approue Being demanded in our Replie howe then he coÌ„tinued in idolaâ—rie a Minister of idollatrie prophecied in BAAL and pleaded for BAAL Or howe he could approoue our article and yet condemne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake their false deuised idolatrous worship and seek to worship God according to his worde To those he answereth that when we haue proued their worship to be idolatrie and that they prophecie in BAAL and pleade for BAAL then he is content that men take vs for no schismatickes or hereticks And this I hope we haue in this treatise donne hauing shewed their worship to be deuised by man idolatrous abhominable their ministrie to be as false diriued from and exercised vnder their BAALS these Bishops And how earnestly Mr. G. hath pleaded for these Baals their throne and all the enormities proceding from the same these his owne bookes shall testifie So that I hope we are now cleared with all men and shal hereafter be spared of him from the odious accusations of schisme and heresie THe 3. 4. and 5. Articles after Mr. G. his diuision tending to one effect and begetting but the same coÌ„mon difficulties may together be handled The chief controuersies about the same are these two 1. Whether these publicke assemblies of their parishes be antichristian Babilonish 2. Then whether the Church consisting but of priuate men may in this estate erect establish amongst them such offices ordinances of CHRIST as he hath instituted to the ministri gouernment of his Church Of the first both Mr. G. I haue now lardgly set downe our mindes so that I leaue yt as fitter for iudgment then anie furder discussing in this place The reasons here repeated 1. How their Churches are from antient discent within the Couenant 2. And how their Church in this estate hath begotten and nourished children vnto God as the Martyres haue bene alreadie often propounded and vrged by him in his book I hope by that time he hath wel considered of the heresies sacrilege and absurdities of the first and of the vayne assumption and litle consequence of the second as they are set downe in our answeres he shal haue litle cause to vse them so often or to vrdge them with such confidence bitterness For when Mr. G. shal prooue that a Nation so highly apostatate fallen from the faith so deiply plunged into such execrable idolatries abhominations hardnes of heart as in the papistical corruptioÌ„ stil
two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience To cast sinne into the Epha and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie with the vvinges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their vvinges and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them euerie where vvarning instructing and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake to take vp and beare his crosse daylie c Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes or ells he wil come against them speedily and remoue their candlestick To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth Commending those Churches that kept that they had the worde of his patience in persecution promising them the Crowne of life if they remaine faithfull vnto the death to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God c. M r. Giffard he is contented that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions Or the whole Church whilest yt wittinglie doth or suffreth these thinges to be donne can keepe we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of M r. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited is so euident to all men as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same and to cast out in his name and power all that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance Howe can M r. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors publick transgression or in this estate promise them peace The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet Neither hath God promised anie peace to thē that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression vntil they repent Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe Wee would knowe of him therfore whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth and iustifieth or at the least tollerateth what open errors publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth will excuse him or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man that hath at the Princes commandment committed much more contynued to committ anie transgression without vnfaigned repentance But if the least error be contrarie to true faith the least transgression sinne and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde And now to the poynct we would know of him whether anie Prince much-lesse a christian Prince may abrogate the commandement of God or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end If not but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate that vnder a heathen why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde whether in correcting and redressing faultes or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body Wee may then much better conclude that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel because he is a member of CHRIST of the Church then vnder an infidel Prince that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church ANother reason he bringeth whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence or vntill hee will because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of before we proceede Wee meane then by reformation to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe he is to ouersee and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office
and caling God hath placed them Yet is this no preiudize to the Christian libertie and power of the Church no impediment to anie member therof but rather a singular preseruation of all dueties and an excellent instigation of them all to doe the wil of God in their calings For in all this here is no power giuen the Prince to restraine anie iore of the libertie and power of the Church or to with-hold anie one person from doing the whole will of God in their caling Much-lesse is here anie power giue the Prince to drawe or compel the Church or any member therof to the least transgression or error yea when the Prince shall in anie thing be founde contrarie to God God is then to be obeyed rather then man And this is no disobedience to the Princes soueraigne and supreame power ouer al persons and causes ecclesiastical or ciuile is no preiudize or impediment to the Church or to anie member therof from doing the whole will of God in their calings So in like maner are not the proceedings of the Church according to CHRISTES Testament any derogation from or enchrochment of the royal power and prerogatiue of Princes as this false Prophet out of the mouth of Sathau woulde perswade but rather a singular preservation and most rare illustratiō therof Whose reignes are neuer so glorious as when or glorious but when God is worshipped and obeyed according to his reueiled worde and those most chearished and fauored that are most faithful therin In the Church of CHRIST are al duties most faithfullie taught and no knowen transgression of anie knowen duetie suffred either to God or man Howe then can Sathan himself say that the proceedings of the Church or rather or Christ in his Church are contrarie to or derogate from the royall power of Princes They cannot be of God that thus set at variance these blessed powers which God hath so conioyned and contempered for the mutual help each of other and the seruice of his glorie No it is the false Church and this antichristian hierarchie that are preiudicial vnto enchroch vpon and vsurp the Royall aucthoritie power iurisdiction titles honors prerogatiues lads palaces pompe c of Princes The true Church both knoweth howe to obey the Lorde and their Prince in the Lorde They vsurpe not the Princes office when they reforme anie publick fault in the worship administration gouernment ecclesiastical c but execute their owne office For this is not the Princes office to doe in person but to commande the Church to doe it by such instrumentes as God hath ther vnto ordayned This commandment of the Prince doth neither giue the Church more power or make the action more lawful Neither doth the prohibition of anie Prince take away this power of the Church that God hath giuen or make the action that God hath commanded more vnlawful How then doth the Church more sinne in doing these duties in reformation and correctiō of publick faultes and proceeding in the practize of Gods will which God hath commanded to be donne by his Church then anie priuate man sinneth when he correcteth anie fault in himself or in his family or beginneth to doe anie duetie which he before neglected without his Princes lycence Seing the Princes eye power and office extendeth aswell to ciuile as to ecclesiastical dueties aswell to priuate as to publick reformation yea the Princes licence in al Christian consideration extendeth to al godly duties honest actions euen to as many things either to be donne or to be left vndōne as the cōmandements of God extend vnto For he is the Minister of God for y e praise of them that do wel and for the punishment of them that doe euill when the Prince resisteth or suffreth not the worde of God to haue free passage he sinneth doth not his duety But this cā be no excuse for vs to cease to doe the wil of God or to intermit our duetie If he drawe the sword and smite vs for wel doing that but augmenteth his sinne and the blessing of God resteth vpon vs that suffer for righteousnes sake wee may not for feare of persecution or for the indignation of Princes leaue the commandements of God vndonne For that were with this false Prophet to mancipate the lawe of God to the wil of Princes and vtterly to abolish the crosse of Christ out of the world For Princes neuer punish mē for obeying but for breaking their hestes Beastly then hellish is the speach of this mā That saith the Church refuseth the peace of their Prince and prouoketh him to strike when they either reforme such faultes as are in the Church or proceed to doe such things as God hath commanded them though the Prince forbid and wil not giue licence But especiallie where the blasphemer is not afraid to say that the Church when it procedeth to the establishing and practize of Christes ordinances erecteth a state gouernment of their owne Doe they erect anie thing of themselues or that CHRIST himself hath not erected Is not this to accuse CHRIST of treason because he saith he is a Kinge And his seruants of sedition because they set vp his kingdome without the licence and against the will of Princes though it cost them their liues for the same Is not this man a faithful seruant of CHRIST a faithfull subiect to his Prince that so reprocheth CHRISTS heauenlie kingdom reiecteth his ordinances and commandments to make them depend vpon the wil of Princes that so seduceth his Prince and would drawe her into battell against God almighty and his Church Yea if to set vp Christes kingdome in a christiā estate without the leaue or licence of the Prince or state be rebellion and disobedience a derogation from their sacred power an intrusion into their high office how then will he excuse our Sauiour CHRIST himself who being borne in the flesh but in th' estate of a subiect and a priuate man hee neither being Minister of the Temple nor magistrate in the commō Wealth and that in a godly state vnder faithful magistrates as himself acknowledgeth did notwithstāding by al meanes in deuour to set vp his kingdome preached baptized caled al men vnto him although the whole state and gouernours earnestly sorbad and resisted him Those gouernours were to be obeyed and he himself was obedient in al things as became a true subiect If it be answered that he did it by the especial commission and commandment of God Wee readilie graunt that a sufficient warrant vnto him before God and men as also vnto all others that haue the commandement of the same God for that they doe But what is this to our question Whether the Church or such as haue aucthoritie from God ought to be stayed from doing the commandment of God by the inhibition of a christian Prince or state Wee graunte it high sinne and intollerable presumption for anie that haue not aucthoritie of God to enterprise to doe anie thing
in the Church whether with or without their Princes licence But if yt be vnlawful for the Church or such as haue aucthoritie of God without the licence of their christian Prince or gouernours Then verilie our Sauiour his Disciples offended herein who stayed not to doe the will of his heauenlie Father for the threates laying wayte of the Rulers Furder if it be vnlawfull derogatorie to a Christian Princes office aucthoritie for anie to doe Gods wil in their callings and for the Church to proceede in the practize of CHRISTES Testament though against his wil Then is it also vnlawfull vnder a heathen Prince For the christian and heathen Princes haue one and the same aucthoritie office duetie to see all thinges both in the Church and in the commune Wealth donne according to the wil of God There is the same reuerence and obedience though I say not the same bowells of loue due to the heathen that is due to the christian Prince in regarde of their office The heathen Prince shall answere aswell as the christian for the neglect of their duetie for the abuse of their power and place And thus also if M r. G. doctrines be sownd the Apostles likewise sinned against the aucthoritie of Princes in erecting CHRISTS kingdome and the Churches in proceeding to receiue the same and to doe the wil of God without their Princes licence and notwitstanding their prohibition Seing that the vnbeleeuing Princes haue the same place office and aucthoritie and ought to haue the same obediene in respect thereof that christian Princes haue or ought haue And sure most diuelish and detestable are these two published and generallie receiued opinions of these contrarie factions of our English Cleargie men The one giuing out that the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment prescribed in CHRISTS Testament practized by the Apostles and primatiue Churches in the tymes of persecution is not nowe necessarie or tollerable vnder a Christian Prince The other giuing out that those ordinances and that gouernment which they acknowledge CHRIST to haue instituted and prescribed to his Church vnto the worldes end may not nowe vnder a christian Prince be put in practize by the Church if he forbid the same as they might ought and were vnder heathen Princes by the faithful in all ages With the one of these blasphemous positions the Prelates defend their outragious gouernment and all their antichristian proceedings with the other the tyme-seruers these counterfeite Reformistes colour and defend their perfidie not witnessing vnto and practizing the Gospell of Christ and their seruile subiection to the gouernment of Antichrist By which positions both sides most impiously abrogate the heauenlie gouernment and ordinances of Christ in his Church and intollerably seduce and abuse that most blessed and comfortable ordinance of the christian Magistracie Both of them hereby shut vp the kingdome of heauen against all men neither entring themselues nor suffring such as would but holding the whole land vnder the enormous gouernment of Antichrist in the wrath of God whose iudgment therfore sleepeth not YEt remayneth an other dangerous error which Mr. G. hath pickeâ— out of a certaine answere made by me HENRIE BARROVVE to three greate Bishops of this land where being demaunded whether the Queene may make lawes for the Church which are not contrarie to the worde of God I seeing wherat they aymed vzt to maintayne al these popish reliques deuises tromperies c wherwith their worship Church is pestered answered as I remember to this effect That no Prince neither al the meÌ„ of the world not the Church yt self could make any lawes for the Church other then CHRIST hath left in his worde But I thought it the dutie of euerie Prince especially of euerie christian Prince to enquire out renewe the lawes of God and to stir vp all their subiects vnto more diligent careful keeping of the same This answere M r. G. after his accustomed maner pronownceth Anabaptisticall deâ—ijng and cutting off a great part of the power God hath giuen vnto Princes and a great part of Discipline Proof of these chardges he maketh none except we must take these two assertions in way of proofe vntill he bring better The first is that CHRIST hath giuen general lawes or rules for matters of circumstance that be indifferent variable in the perticulars and so to be altered and abolished as the peace and edification of the Church shall require And therfore that Princes with the Church are to ordaine to establish such orders by those generall rules as may afterward for iust cause be altered M r. G. his antecedent here is so general extendent his conclusion so doubtful and indefinite taking such roome to himself in both to escape euade as except he drawe nearer and in his next booke take the paynes to set downe what he meaneth in his proposition by general lawes rules and by matters of circumstance And in his conclusion what kinde of orders those such orders are the Prince should ordeine establish he shalbe so far from distressing or convincing me as I shall neuer perceiue where he is or where about he goeth This when he shal doe then I shall knowe what to answere him In the meane tyme I confesse manie thinges of circumstance as the tyme place of assembling what scriptures to reade or to interprete how longe to continue in prayer or prophecie c to be left in libertie at the discretion of the Church to be wisely vsed according to their present occasions to edification order decencie Of these sondrie such like the Lord in wisedome sawe it not good to set downe positiue or permanent lawes for all Churches and tymes because the present estate and diuers occasions of all Churches yea of anie one Church are so diuers variable that prescript definitiue lawes could not be set of such things in perticular for the space of one moneth without manifold incoÌ„veniences great preiudize to the Church Of such things then as the Lord for these wise endes waighty causes hath left in the libertie discreation of the Church to be vsed and ordered according to the present estate and occations therof c may man make no prescript positiue lawes in perticular to enioyne therby this forme this tyme c vpon all or vpon anie one Church without restrayning that which God hath left at libertie yea without coÌ„trolling contrarijng the wisdome of God which no doubt is most excellently perfect euen in the least thinges and without manie other grieuous inconveniences intollerable preiudize to the Church of God Much better therfore should the Prince prouide for the Church to see them duly to obserue the lawes that God hath giueÌ„ and to vse their libertie aright Or where they transgresse in either of these to reprooue or to correct accordingly then to make and enioyne new lawes of his owne deuising so contrarie to the libertie yea euen to that order
therfore we suffer because wee wil not denie this faith But by his owne argument he hath turned himself and their whole Church and Priesthood out of the folde whiles they are not gathered vnto CHRIST alone by his doctrine only but maintaine Antichristes lawes orders his seruantes they are to whome they gyue themselues to obey To proue his former reason hee aledgeth the custome of the olde time in Gods Church and the scripture yt self Reuel 2. where the Nicolaitanes are meÌ„tioned Arians of Arius Montanistes of Montanus Nouatians of Nouatus Pelagians of Pelagius Donatistes of Donatus The doctrine we do graunt that wicked Heretikes Scismatikes may iustly be named of the aucthors and leaders But heresie and schisme we denye to be maintayned by vs And you hauing neuer conuinced vs of heresie neither can proue your Churche to be the true apparant established Church of Christ must gyue accompt for your malitious sclandering of vs and numbring vs among such hatefull heretickes as the Arians c. If wee be Christians then must you gyue accompt for this offence which is not only done to vs but to his truth and to himself You affirme in an other place that you had rather gyue accompt for to much charitie shewed to the wicked yea for iustifijng an euil man then for coÌ„demning the iust being iguoraÌ„t that the woe is pronounced against both But here you haue forgotteÌ„ your self herein and by sclandering the truth you know what danger you incurre Luke 17. 1. 2. Math. 18. 7. He draweth the original of Brownisme as he termeth yt from Donatus and sayth Browne was the cheife renewer therof yet afterward saith ther was a Church of them eighteene yeeres agoe in London wherin one Bolton was a cheife doer whose fearful end is not forgotteÌ„ For the original of our profession we fetch yt from Christ and his Apostles practize of the Church in the Apostles time as all the Martyres from time to time haue done according to the light they sawe For Donatus and Browne they must answere for themselues We are buylt vpon the foundation of the Apostles Prophetts IESVS CHRIST being the chief corner stone Other foundation then this can no man lay wee offer our workes to be tryed hereby It is Mr. Giffard himself that so wel may remember the fearfull end of Bolton for yt is true that as I haue heard he stood against your ministerie for Cappes Surplus Crosse with many other your Romish trynckets as I haue heard your self haue done after reuolting and become a conformable member of your Churche hanging himself yt is a remembrance for Apostates Donatisme saith he in old time about twelue hundreth yeeres past was condemned as approued detestable schisme heresie The Brownistes and Donatistes shal appeare to agree together as two peices of cloth that are of the same woll same threed colour working and bredth If this man had read with iudgment the holy scripture as concerning the general defection Apostasie with the encrease decrease of Antichristes kingdome hee would haue blushed to haue entred this comparison For the Donatistes wee haue not to deale yet if the right eye were not blinded hee might haue considered better the Donatistes causes of separation and ours and it woulde not haue seemed so like together the times causes persons from whome and maner of their separation must be better weighed which because he hath taken in hande to perticulate afterward I wil only shew one here wherin we make such a difference as al his other are but trifles The Donatistes held still the same worship gouernment offices officers entrance and the same administration of sacraments c that the other did from whome they did separate and as it seemeth receiued whole Cities and Contries to be the Church as before so that their separation was more like the sectes and schismes amonst your selues you from the Papists the Martinistes from you the forward Predicants as they are called from the Bishops then any such separation as we by the coÌ„mandemeÌ„t of God make from false Church false ministerie false Sacraments Antichristian gouernment c vnto the true ordinances of Christ Heretickes and Sectaries make schisme but this true conuertion from the euill to the good from the false to the true fewe finde yt although it be the plaine commandement of God Reue. 18. 4. and the way to saluation Acts. â— 40. For indeed it is not enough to forsake the false wayes but to seeke the antient wayes of the Lord and to walke in them that wee may finde rest to our soules Mr. Giffard his setting downe of the causes of the Donâ—â—istes separation bewrayeth himself to seeke onlie the defamation of the truth without shew of reason First he sayth that in the persecutions by the Romish Emperours manie being as they were then termed proditors and traditors of the Bookes of God the holy vessells their bretheren c there was a rumor that such offences had bâ—ne committed by some Nowe saith he there came certeine Bishops from Numidia to Carthage a famous Citie in Africa to ordeyne a Bishop and found Cecilianus alredye ordeined and placed in the seate c. Thus farre I trust it will be granted me his peeces of cloth are not both of a woll for the difference I refer to the obstinate heynouse traÌ„sgressions wherwith we haue chardged these parrish assemblies Further the Brownistes as he in the spirit of blasphemy termeth them approue of no such Bishop or Bishoprickes no such seate nor ordination as they came about Well the Bishops of Numidia were wroth that they could not ordeine In this poinct his threeds are not proportionable Wee thrust not our â—elues beyond our lyne in these actions neither do any thing in the high matters of God through ambition These things are all founde amongst your selues the kingdome through enuie diuided for al your chiefest strife hath bene whither a Sinode of parrish Priestes or a Lord Bishop should create your Priestes this being your principal contention the one side must needs be Donatistes He procedeth and saith thesâ— Bishops of Numidia ioyned together and layed a crime vpoÌ„ â—â—â—cilianus they say his Ordeyner delyuered the holy books was a Traditor wherevpon they would haue Caecilianus reputed no Minister of CHRIST but the sonne of a traditor In this M r. Giff. discerneth not colours The Brownistes separate not for anie one mans person through envie they shewe other causes whie they repute your whole ministerie to be a false and AntichristiaÌ„ ministerie and not the true ministerie of the Gospel they allowe not ordination by one man but proue the offices entrance and administratioÌ„ of your ministerie to be wholly Antichristian and herevpon wee repute them no true ministerie of Christ. For the triall of this matter saith hee there was no assemblie of learned Pastors to iudge in this case according to Christs ordinance but furor dolus tumultus did beare the swaie Here M r. Giffard
you here take my answere that vve deny these parrish assemblies to be true Churches or to haue anie power or aucthoritie to cast our any according to Christes ordinance so that wee cannot reason vvith you as to make the controuersie of open sinners in the Church but as a confused assemblie not being euer gathered vnto Christ or guyded by his ordiances We know that in the true Church are shalbe opeÌ„ sinners yet ther are rules lawes by due censure to bring them to repentance or els to cast them out if they remaine obstinate in anie open grosse sinne of which things we wil not enter into discourse with you denijng you to haue eyther true Church or power to redresse abuses in your parrish assemblies And where he demandeth vvhat order of discipline wee haue obserued in our separation We haue learned that no other censures belong vnto the false Church then powring forth the vialls into the ayre waters sunne c. For this wee haue the direction and commandement of God Reuel 16. 18. 6. Againe where should we finde your Synod of Pastors in the whole tayle of the Dragon you haue no such order as you prate of vnskilfully your L. Arch-B or Ordinatie can teach you otherwise then plead for Synods of Pastors For anie ChristiaÌ„ or equal triall either in free conference by the Scriptures or triall by the coÌ„mon law we haue vpon the dispence of our lyues long sued for it and caÌ„not obtaine anie as vvee haue said and finde nothing but furor dolus tumulius amongst your broode Now after his former discourâ—e he will from poinct to poinct proue vs to agree with the Donatistes First saith he the Donatistes did accuse and condemne the Churche and ministerie of the Churches most falslie And I say saith he the Brownistes are as false accusers as they and condemne as iniustly in all crimes Here are bold and sore chardges but Mr. Giffards bare word wil not stand The Donatistes cause was not about the orderly gathering of a true Church but for the casting out of the vnworthie not about the office entrance or administration of the ministerie but about the sinnes of such as were in that office So that if Mr. Giffard would looke againe of the cause he should finde no cause to keepe this stirr as vpon a stage to no end or edifijng Wee haue often told him in our former writinges that our matter is not about offenders in the Church but about the beeing or not beeing a Church In the meane time he handsomly layeth vpon their owne filthines saying companies and swarmes of drunckardes gluttons whoremasters couetous worldlings greedie vsurers extortioners oppressours bribers defrauders lyers backbyters and sclanderers envious hateful and contentious persons swearers and cursers are suffred and admitted to the Lords Table this saith he in manie or in most of their parrish assemblies And many of their ministeri such Where admit them a Church in his owne coÌ„ceit let him ad now this more which is as true that they haue no power to redresse these euils by due censure for that they thus coÌ„tynue after they haue bene long ofteÌ„ reproued for this sacriledge and we are bold to pronouÌ„ce the Priest as the people a deÌ„ne of theiues a cage of vncleane spirits as the harlot that receiueth all commers cast together into Iesabels bed Hee further confesseth that the threatnings of the Prophets against Israel are due vnto them Whereby hee confesseth these assemblies not to be the Churches of God For all the Prophets that prophesied against Israel in the defection pronounce her not to be the Churche of God reade Hosea 1. 2. Ieremie 3. Ezechiell 23. But saith he might not the Donatistes haue pleaded that there were manie wicked people wicked Ministers in those Churches from which they separated We answere that is not questioÌ„ For first we denie you to haue anie Church orderly gathered vnto the ordinances worship gouernment of CHRIST which they did not And againe we haue not to reasoÌ„ what they might haue excepted against those assemblies or ministers but what they made the cause of their separation wherein you trouble but your self and with odiouse names deceiue the ignorant to make anie shewe of agreement betwene our cause and theirs It wil be demanded saith he whither Cyprian the rest of the godly did worship together with those open sinners in their dayes ioyning with them in prayer and in the sacramentes c. No the question shalbe Mr. Giffard Whether if they did communicate with the open transgressions of the lawe in their time they did wel and lawfully therein or no for I trust you will graunt that the Church hath alwayes power to cast out the obstinate offenders reade then the â— of the 1 to the Corinth a litle more coÌ„sideratly and tel vs whether they faulted not in keeping in their fellowship the incestious person and for not purging out the leauen from amongst them for what saith the text Now I write vnto you that you companie not together If anie that is called a brother be a fornicator or an Idolator or railer or a drunckard or an extortioner vvith such an one eate not Where the words me synanamignysthai be not together commingled and after vvith such an one eate not sheweth a plaine inhibition of communicating with the open prophane or impenitent offendors For where is this commixture or commixion if not in that holy banquet and coniunction in the communion and supper of the Lorde and if Mr. Giffard could discerne the spiritual things he might see the outward signes of bread and wyne to be tokens not only of our vnion with Christ and benefit of his death but also of our communion vvith the members of his bodye spiritually as the holy Ghost reasoneth saijng The cup of blessing vvich vvee blesse is yt not the communioÌ„ of the blood of CHRIST and the bread vvhich vve breake is it not the commanion of the bodie of CHRIST for vve that are manie are one bread and one bodie because 〈◊〉 are partakers of one bread For vs then to come together in this banquet and spiritual reioycing with the members of CHRIST to our iudgment we haue true comfort one with another But with the open prophane or obstinate open knowen transgressor ther caÌ„ be no good reioycing fellowship or communion for besides the vvicked Priest that presumptuouslye blesseth where God curseth and committeth sacriledge in delyuering the signe of Gods Couenant with his people in CHRIST to the treaders vnder their feete of his body and blood so the whole Congregation and euery one that participateth with those open wicked transgresse in not admonishing casting out the leauen against so manie rules as command admonition excommunication by due order and partake with y e wicked against God by their reioycing with them as bretheren But as I haue stil pleaded with you we know better order then blinde separation in pride for the sinnes
discipline to execute neither belong CHRISTS ordinances to your Antichristian ministerie Babilonish assemblies which we denie to hold the head CHRIST in this their subiection to Antichristes ministerie ordinances worship It is but then your ignorance to make comparison betwene the Donatistes and vs. To the Worship THat the Donatistes did separat themselues from as corrupted a worship as the Brownistes doe Mr. GIFFARD wil stand to affirme Saith he there were prayers oblations for the dead then significatiue ceremonies superstitious signing of themselues with the signe of the Crosse c. To which we answere that Mr. GIFFARD affirmed in the 6. page of his booke that the Donatistes departed disorderly out of the Church condemning yt not for any poinct of doctrine for therein the other Churches they did agree Now here he would make comparison betwene them vs in disalowing the worship But it seemeth Mr. GIFFARD holdeth not anie doctrine to be contayned in the worship which indeed ought to coÌ„teine nothing els and sure it is a strang worship that is not grounded vpon doctrine The second thing in this place we will note is the time of these corruptions in the worship namely as he reckoneth within two hundreth yeares after CHRIST If their worship were then as corrupted as ours is now we merueil how you will defend the platforme of your Church gouernment from that tyme that was so corrupt calling yt the primatiue Church Your fellow Priests Argumentes from the primatiue Church as thy falslie call those times will be of small weight if you make their worship as corrupt as this deriued from Antichrist In the 44 page he graunteth as much of the gouernment that it was then thus corrupt when our tyme-seruers will only cleaue to that paterne and neither he nor they to the Testament of CHRIST Thirdly he hath forgotten his scope Argument He should by his promise haue prooued that the Doâ—â—tistes we were of one iudgment in this poinct and that they made the false worship one principal cause of their separation as we do so that he hath forgotten himself in this place as a man not knowing where to make shew of somthing Next where Mr. GIFFARD grantes that in those assemblies where the worship is idolatrous it is lawfull to separat a mans self he contrary to those expositions of the 2 Corinth 6. and other places to that effect now granteth a separation in body and minde both I will not rebuke him nor charge him of inconstancie because I perceiue him to contradict his holy Pastors of these tymes where he seeth them to erre But he by and by returneth to his vomit againe thus Ther are many great corruptions in the worship before it come to that where certeine fundamental poincts of doctrine are holden the worship cannot be idolatrous but in the deepest defection in poperie ther were certeine fundamentall poincts holden as he faith in an other place wherby they were stil in the Church and vnder the Conenant therfore ther is no idolatrous or blasphemous worship that may in the Papistes Church be separated from Mr. GIFFARD may be a good subiect but sure his groundes of doctrine are popish and pernitious We here demaund of Mr. GIF whither such corruptions errours as he speaketh of might be of the godly that knew them such be offered vp by themselues or communicated with in the Church And Mr. GIF must giue vs leaue to say it cannot be their worship was so corrupt as yours consisting of so manie patched deuises of your learned Popes so long hatched and by so manie heades as haue out of that fordge of Sathans minting howse contriued yt euen out of Antichristes treasurie of deceites As for errours that haue no good foundation we may shew him twentie for one Hitherto then Mr. GIFFARD his bretheren that haue separated from the Church of ROME as they would pretend yet retayning still that worship are bretheren with the Donatistes as he pleaseth to deride that holy name of bretheren To the Ministerie THe Donatistes cried out that the Churches from which they separated had no true Ministers but that they were all false Prophets Iudasses persecutors of the iust generations of vipers because they said they had their ordination from them that were such The Brownistes lift vp their voyces with all their might call vs Baalls Priestes the marked seruantes of Antichrist false Prophets seducers and such lyke because as they say we are ordeyned by Antichristian Bishops therfore we be Donatistes Mr. GIFF. his Argument is denyed Ieremie our Sauiour Christ and diuers of the Prophets against Israell did in this maner pull off the visardes of the false Prophets disclosing their wickednes to y e people were they therfore Donatistes or Schismatickes Calvine all of you cry out against the Popes ministerie at ROME are you therfore Donatistes and Schismatickes The matter then must be considered for which they so called them The Donatistes for no other cause then for that some of them were ordeyned by Iudasses and traytours the Brownistes for that these are ordeyned by Antichristian Bishopps which exercise an other spirituall gouernment then CHRISTS Wherein if you had eyes to see there is no comparison betwene their cause ours First the person that did ordeine satâ— in a lawful office as the Donatistes supposed did also ordeine as they thought in maner according to the rule of the word the partie that was ordeined meete for the ministerie the office to which he was called lawfull the administration wherein he was to administer holy and good for anie thing they sawe The contrarie of all which we finde in your ministerie and the thing wherein you would haue vs likened together was neuer our reason which is the wickednes of the mans person that doth of his sole authoritie ordeine for manie Churches which we neither approoue in the Donatistes or you Our exceptions in this case I say hath neuer bene against the person of your Ordinarie although we might iustly Take next time your matter together and looke whose kingdome you administer in what calling office Leitourgie flock and be ashamed of your comparison by so much as your ministeri is more wicked Again you here put the cause of our casting of the Bishops their traine into the lake to be for that they exercise an other discipline then CHRISTES as though this were some small matter which if you put the word gouernment of the Church you shall finde it the denial of CHRIST to reigne in his kingdome a suppression of at his lawes ordinances euen the whole Testament and erection and practising of an other Let him that readeth consider what state all stand in that remaine in this kingdome erected against Christ and what ministerie the seducers in this foraigne priesthoode exercise of God or of the Deuill for CHRIST hath but one ministerie one Gospell one gouernment ouer his Church Now seeing ther is no comparison
the law yet his office still retained but we hold that the Minister ought to repent his sinne before he administer and the Church to admonish him of his knowen sinne before they suffer him to administer and not coÌ„municat with him if he be obstinat If the Church neglect their dutie he and they transgresse yet do we not say that it is no Sacrament that he deliuereth or that his ministerie is disanulled But we must put Mr. Giffard in minde how far he is gone from our cause in this comparison We neuer disalowed their SacrameÌ„ts as being administred by a lawful Minister in a lawful office yet the man a sinner But of such counterfeites as haue neither lawfull office entrance c but stand enchanters in Antichristes kingdome so that these are not the personal sinnes of a Minister in the Church wherin Mr. Giff. wickednes appeareth to make the questioÌ„ of the mans person or his sinne when it is the ministery office entrance administation al which wee hold to be Antichristian and to haue nothing to do with the seales of Gods Couenant in this estate not here to speake of the altering of the institution in the maner of administring yt vvhich the Donatistes neuer either had cause or made question of as it seemeth And whether anie promise is made to the elementes abused in the false yea whether to the elementes or to the keeping of the lawes and ordinances in the true Church let Mr. Giffard make answere Further when we affirme the Sacramentes of the false Church to be no true seales of the Couenant because they are Idolatours and Idolatrous the Lordes ordinances prophaned and lawes wholly violated wee do not therby conclude it to bee no Baptisme concerning the outwarde washing for wee can put difference betwene a false and none a false Sacrament or counterfeit signe and none for the false Church is saide to haue her peace offringes And although wee holde them highly to tempt God to their owne condemnation if they repent not that wittingly prophane or of wilfull ignorance transgresse those high ordinances as in the false Church to be superstitious of the element where the lawe and Couenant is broken yet do wee not therevpon affirme wee neede anie reiterating of the outward signe as the Donatistes but hold this false signe nowe a true signe sufficient to vs concerning the outward washing Circumcision in the Apostasie of Israel which was without promise to the receiuers in that estate and nothing but sinne in yt yet stood for a sufficient outward cutting wheÌ„ anie of them returned to the Church and ate of the Passouer wherof it was not lawfull for any vncircumcised to eate how the signe might haue bene reiterated if need had so required we may see by that of y e Apostle 1 Cor. 7. for gathering againe their circumcisioÌ„ if it might be gathered againe then secondly cut Where Mr. Giffard then in stead of performing his comparison saith that the Donatistes in rebaptising did better of both because he that is not baptised ought to be baptised he bewrayeth his ignorance that cannot put difference betwene a false Sacrament and none a false signe and none The grossnes also he supposeth to haue bene in vs is found in himself that lest he should make the false and counterfeit washing in the false church to be none runneth to iustifie the Church ministerie sacramentes c at ROME and so must conclude himself of necessitie a Schismaticke or a popish Priest which he will And where he demandeth whether he that knoweth he was neuer baptised can be saued if he seek not to be baptised when he may haue yt We demande againe how euer true baptisme should be restored if the false signe of baptisme which was then without promise in the false Church should not now be sufficient concerning the outward signe To the Government IN the principle of principles that I say not the verie summe of all causes of our separation from these assemblies namely the gouernment which Mr. GIFFARD termeth discipline he can not finde any coÌ„similitude betwene the Donatistes and vs for the confesseth he hath not read that they did take anie exception against it in that tyme. Take your word discipline for al the meanes that CHRIST hath apointed by his lawes ministerie censures to keepe guyde gouerne his Church ioyntly and seuerally to be instructed in their duties and see what a dilemma you are come vnto this being graÌ„ted that herein ther is no agreement seeing the chief cause of our controuersie with you is for the rable of this Antichristian and pseâ—dohierarchie Courtes c which haue no place in the Church of God where CHRISTS officers offices lawes censures ought to gouerne and guyde his Church But here according to your accustomed maner you goe about to say there were faultes to be found in their gouernment then yea as well as in their worship c which you affirmed to be as corrupt as yours is now wherein if ante regard were to be had of your words you would not only make those Bishopps in as euill state as these that Church as yours now but haue cast into the fire al the platformes that your learned Reformistes haue pleaded for from that falsly so called Primatiue Church Well I haue told you the question is not whether they had the true gouernment or no whether in that gouernment there were corruptions defaultes or negligences but whether the Donatistes separated therfore or no they had the same offices officers lawes censures that the other so that you speak not only false in saying they might haue had as iust cause in this respect of separation as we but also bring the Argument to confound your self with your whole Church wherin you stand a Priest Thus you are separated from the Church of ROME but retaine still the same hierarchie worship gouernment that they vsed and haue as the Do. of the Churches from which they separated therfore you in this as in the rest of your Argumentes conclude your selues Donatistes Heretickes and Schismatickes from the Church of ROME But Mr. GIFFARD will denie that the Donatistes had as great cause to separate from those Churches froÌ„ which they separated as those English Priestes from their Graundfather the Pope for it was not so corrupted The same we answere to you for your gouernment how then shall we end this matter I take it thus that the Priestes of England despise the Popes person and yet keepe the same orders lawes officers offices that he erected So the Donatistes kept stil the orders of gouernment that the Churches they separated from Now if we can cleare our selues that we retaine not the same gouernment amongst vs that the Church doth we separat from which I thinke cannot be denyed then Mr. GIF hath in a chief principle put himself and this whole laud into the number of Donatistes The Argument is now this The Church of England separateth from the Church of
ROME and yet keepe their gouernment worship therfore the Church of England are Schismamatickes and Donatistes and an other poinct that ther can be no true Sacramentes no true Church vnder a false gouernment And Mr. GIFFARD is yet further out of his way To the Argument of manie Churches HE granting that we herein differ from the Donatistes in that they condemne all Churches in the world we do not will needes notwithstanding haue vs Donatistes in this poinct also For saith he though they shoote not their arrowes at them yet their arrowes strike them their Argumentes vpon consequence will reach so far yea runne thorough the sides of all Churches This we answere you must first cleare your selues of those thinges wherwith you are chardged and pressed and trouble not your self with other mens matters seing you make this but a cloke for your wickendnes to shrowde your self vnder other meÌ„s persons with whome we haue not to deale We vtterly refuse to enter into this controuersie of the estate of other Contries we know the word of God is neere vs thankes be to God by which if your cause be good suffer it to be tryed As for the consequence of our Argumentes they are but your owne collections to passe ouer your owne sinnes and sett the strife betwene vs and other Churches which we wil not be drawen vnto And all men may here behold this sower of wordes and strife maker will counterfeit not only consequence but Argumentes of his owne head to raise quarrell In all which he hath forgotten his promise to compare our writinges and theirs together and flyeth to his owne collection In this part of his stage-play he beginneth thus The Church of ENGLAND is esteemed reuerenced emongst the Churches as a sister and so coÌ„municated with yet they all know what her faultes be in her assemblies in her worship in her ministerie gouernment in asmuch as they are apparant Vnto the first we suppose your worship ministerie Church gouernment are not so apparant vnto them as you gyue out Secondly we doubt yea I may say it is vntrue that they iustifie your ministerie worship or gouernment Thirdly admit they should thus sinne either of ignorance negligence or infirmitie standing otherwise orderly gathered to the practize of CHRISTES ordinances they are not for this sinne till after due convincement and admonition they remaine obstinat to be presently iudged no Churches But what I thinke of their estate you shall here pardon me I wil not intermedle till I be called As for your harmonie of Confessions if it be not the harmonie of the Prophets CHRIST and his Apostles it skilleth nothing vs what coÌ„sent you make Againe it is not an accord in certeine general Articles that can satisfie this matter when in the perticulars you discent to the ouerthrow of al Such an harmonie you may very wel make with your mother Church of ROME and a great deale more large Neither do their Confessions agree with you in the estate of the ministeri Church gouernment nor worship Scotland Geneua France c haue an other ministerie offices choise ordination and ministration an other gouernment worship but it were too large to discusse And now hold to your Argument and see what wil follow The Church of ROME haue the same confession of faith which you call your Apostolick Crede that you haue yea the Lordes prayer as you cal it Athanasius Crede c therfore they and you agreeing in this harmonie of confession are one body one Church Againe these Churches you say hold you the Church of God and you hold the Church of ROME to be the Church of God therfore you are one body al and then you al the Churches Schismatickes from your mother Church If the Church of ENGLAND be Antichristian idolatrous and worship the Beast c then the Churches which perfectly know the same and yet acknowledg her a sister are partakers of her sinne and so to be condemned with her The same Argument we thus returne you If the Church of ROME be Antichristian idolatrous worship the Beast theÌ„ the Church of ENGLAND which perfectly knoweth the same yet acknowledgeth her a sister as Mr. GIFFARD doth say is partaker with her sinnes and so to be condemned with her Al those Churches saith he which know the Church of ENGLAND in this estate do yet reuerence her as a true Church of CHRIST do coÌ„dempne those as heretical Schismatickes which cal yt Antichristian separat themselues from yt We answere that all those Churches he speaketh of do not approue the church of ENGLAND in this estate neither condempne vs in the thinges we withstand therein and receiue it againe thus At the first coÌ„ming out of papacie all the Churches in the world did approue the Church of ROME and condempne those as heretical Schismatickes which caled it AntichristiaÌ„ separated from yt Let Mr. Giffard put to what conclusioÌ„ he wil. I take it Mr. Giff. must now leaue the bare title of Church ministerie c and flee to the proofe of their profession orderly walking by the word of God which if he do not yet do we buyld therevpon as vpon a most sure foundation As to Mr. CALVINE we refer you to his confession of faith printed in the latter end of his owne Catechisme and if he be coÌ„trarie to himself in his other writinges look you vnto it we do not for the holynes of the man iustifie anie of his errours as no man is without neither for his errors reiect any truth he held knowing of the one God hath had mercy as we hope and for the other Gods word approueth it so that we beleiue not any thing because such a man said so but because by the word Spirit we heare CHRIST himself speak And you do greatly abuse his writinges in vsing them after your owne â—ense in his name contrarie to his minde and purpose and by your leaue wrasting them to your owne iudgment deceiuing others therby In his confession he affirmeth ther is no true Sacrament with promise as I do remember but where the Minister hath a lawfull office and outward calling to administer so that all his Argumentes must be vnderstood of such a Church as haue a lawful ministerie in office entrance and administration and cannot be applyed to yours Moreouer he reasoned against the Anabaptistes and such as held an integritie and perfection in the Church and separated for euerie sinne coÌ„mitted without due seeking of redresse And if he erred in these or anie other doctrines we do not therfore hold them presently to be no Church in which he was Minister or which did in like ignorance receiue the said doctrines it is obstinacie in error that only deserueth casting off and that by due order As for most of your places expouÌ„ded by his mouth now receiued by you to maintaine open sinne to coÌ„municate with the open knowne transgressours they are so coÌ„mon
is not vvritten in Hebrew or Greek and mens vvritinges not to be grounded or rested vpon vvhere shall our assurance stand And might not Mr. Giff. as vvel say the Hebrew and Greek Copie are but paper and ynck many faults and errours by the print in vowells accents letters and so conclud vve had not Authentick or canonical scriptures at al except meÌ„s erronious vvritings might be of equall authoritie in the assemblie that the scriptures must he not beare vvith mee in accompting him an Atheist or Libertine in thus reasoning Hence then vve see vvhiles you go about to abase the Canonicall scriptures and extol your patched Leitourgie you fall into manie blasphemies as I haue before told you Wee hold yt the vvord of God in vvhat language soeuer stil reiecting the errours in the print in the translations as they are knowne vnto vs and not to the vvord yt self for the imperfections or errours in the translation and print Now vvhen you can so reiect the errours in mens writings as you can make that vvhich remayneth the vndoubted vvorde of God not agreeable only but an Authentick approued Canonicall scripture authorised from God to be the verie eternall foundation and rules limitts and lawes giuen by himself vnto his people you may lift vp your stumped Dagon into this place if there be some truth in their vvritings as vvhat mens vvritings haue not some and the holy name of God verie much yet is that truth in the Scripture yt self here so mingled vvith chaffe that it vvere not only vnprofitable a hinderaÌ„ce of the true vse of Gods vvorde but an abolishing and defacing of the vvord yt self the maiestie vvhere of ought to terrifie you from this presumption And vvhere you say that you decide not controuersies by anie translation but by the Authentick Copies of the Hebrew and Greke I trust you speak only of such as are able by the interpretation therof so to decide controversies and holde it not vnlawfull for anie such as haue not that help to coÌ„vince errour by the powre of the vvord and conferring one place vvith an other in anie translation according to the analogie of faith though I grant vve ought to vse y â— best approued But if this vvere not lawfull surely no maÌ„ might prophesie in the Church vvhich hath not the gift of interpretion of the tongue neither might any affirme any scripture to be true but they vvich haue knowledg of tongues How blasphemous is this geare vvhiles you are ignorant of the powre wisdome and agreement of the word and spirit and diuersitie of giftes giueÌ„ vnto men the Word the Spirit approue ech other and beare witnesse ech of other in what language soeuer God giueth yt to our vnderstanding Prophesie knowledg of tongues are two seueral giftes not alwayes giuen to one member but distributed as God in his wisdome hath appointed 1 Cor. 12. and prophesie coÌ„manded for the more excellent Cap. 14. But this is sufficient in this place that the word of God is the word of God in what language soeuer and to accompt yt being verbatim translated or at least so far foâ—rth faithfully translated mans writing were blasphemie but mens writings can neuer be so holden the authentick scriptures of God how agreable to the word soeuer they be My Argument is then firme and thus left vpon you Those writings which be not the word of God being imperfect neuer without error may not be imponed as lawes Canons vpon the publick assemblies or there be read or iâ—â—erpreted or offred vp in worship But such are almens writings that be not the authentick word or God yt self The publick assemblies are only bound to the reading interpretation of the Scriptures which God hath ordeined to be read in a knowne language and for prayer prophesie hath ordeined the liuely voice of his owne graces in the mouth of such as he hath appointed to be the mouth of the CongregatioÌ„ vnto him and his mouth vnto them So y â— your paâ—ched Leitourgie paraphrases songes in rime homelies and al your dead mens writings are cast forth of the publick assemblies and manifest to be Idols wheÌ„ they are thrust into that place Now where I alledged that the binding of the publick assemblie yea of all assemblies to certaine writings of men euerie day yeare their number portion of words daylie monthly yearely in al assemblies the same matter an words reiterated in stead of powring forth their hearts vnto God according to their present needs and occasions was a setting of themselues in Gods seate and taking the office of his Spirit which only knoweth the wantes of the seueral assemblies according to their diuerse occasions he runneth away from the matter as one vnwilling to heare of this their 〈◊〉 counterfet babling demanding whether euerie one should vtter their owne perticular wantes in the publick assemblie or should pray nothing but that euerie one feeleth the present want of in himself or should tell the Minister before hand what euerie one of their wantes were then how the Minister should remeÌ„ber al. Are these any thing but mere canils can any of these follow vpoÌ„ the former doctrine And let him looke againe whether he that is the mouth of the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ vnto God in publick prayer must not coÌ„sider the present publick occasioÌ„s of that publick assemblie and thereafter frame his prayers all the people ioyning in heart to his words of petition or thanksgyuing saying AmeÌ„ to so much as he asketh according to the wil of God neede of the time yea if they haue not feeling in such prayers they are vnfeeling members yet neither doth he intermedle with priuate or secret wantes neither neede they tell him them he is sent for the publick affaires of the Church to coÌ„mend the seueral actioÌ„s general publick vnto God And as they are diuerse in euerie assemblie so must he be a man of wisdome to know see and coÌ„sider them lest they al rashly step into the house of God to offer vp the sacrifice of fooles make a couÌ„terfeit babling Eccle. 4. Yet the sinne of this is nothing coÌ„parable to thâ— doung your Priests cast forth by pratling ouer your English Portuis which yâ—â— Lord wil one day cast in your faces As then in priuate prayer we are to lay forth our owne wantes estate of our owne soule which cannot be done by reading an other mans writings alwayes singing one song customably repeating in superstitioÌ„ certaine words our hearts neuer ripped vp examined nor the diseases therof layd open vnto God seeking due cure So the man that is the mouth of the whole assemblie prayeth as the mouth of one bodie for al their open publick present wantes occasions Which occasions considering the persons actions are diuerse caÌ„not be writteÌ„ for one assemblie before hand muchlesse for all assemblies in a whole kingdome neither by man nor Angel See then the
mock erye of your seruice booke and what Idolatrie is coÌ„mitted by yt to the abandoning true prayer according to the present wantes occasion The next thing to be coÌ„sidered is about making of lawes in the worship of God Where he would persuade vs that their whole Leitourgie conteining al their publick worship gouernment offices ordinances of their Church be but matters of order conveniencie Then the compelling teaching the publick assemblie to reade ouer mens writings both as Canons lawes in the Church and publickly priuately to offer them vp in stead of true prayer holy invocatioÌ„ is a matter of comelines conveniencie In the meane time it must be a turning away of the whole order ordinances of God For what is the whole Testament of Christ but an order for euerie office person action in the Church if he wil haue it taxis and then must confesse their Leitourgie an other order of publick administration and so as I haue said an other Gospel an other Testament a setting vp an other worship And herevpon I trust I may cal al this an adding to the word of God yea I wil go a litle further an abolishing disabling dishonoring of the word yt self graces of his spirit And whither all this smoke of the bottomlesse pyt may not be reproued with these scriptures not only Prouerb 30 verse 5. 6. Deut. 4. verse 32. but also Reu. 22. verse 18. 19. let the godly ponder and search and let the fearefulnes of the threats deterre all flesh from presuming to alter the ordinances lawes worship of the most high God And that the verie reading of an other mans writing for my owne praier or the prayer of the Church in stead of powring foorth our owne hearts is a changing of the whole worship into the making mens writing an Idoll which is by these places condemned as an accursed sinne let the most hard text as he in carnall wonder exclaymeth be looked into Reuel 22. verse 18. 19. The words are plaine If anie man put or add any thing vnto these or if anie man take away from these words he shalbe iudged as followeth Now if the adding an other whole Worship and suppressing of that God hath apointed be not an adding to these things writteÌ„ gyue sentence as you wil answere O saith he but it is said God wil add vnto such al the plagues written in this booke and there is in this booke mentioned the lake of fire As though the lake of fire is not due for euery sinne and yet not euery one that committeth sinne to be condemned what sinne is it that deserueth not the eternall wrath of God yet not euery one that sinneth giuen ouer to that iudgmeÌ„t for either yt may be of ignorance or of negligence and washed away by repentance in the blood of Christ or it may be repented of left wheÌ„ wee see yt Mr. GIFFARD hath read wel the curses of the law all the curses due for sinne that seeth not how many curses the law the Prophets pronounced vpon sinne to call the persons themselues to repentance shewing together the equitie of Gods law yet withal the free mercye of God to al y t truly repent their euil wayes Al that receiue the Beastes marke in their hand or forehead are thretned to be cast with the Beast and false Prophet into that lake yet I doubt not but manie that haue bene so seduced into that sinne shal by repentance be saued Not that I encourage anie to coÌ„tinue in such fearful estate to hardeÌ„ their hearts against the threatnings of God but that I would haue Mr. GIFF. to put difference betwene the curse layd to the sinne and the condemnation of the person sinning And seeing he taketh that lake a perticular seuere threat to the Apostasie vnder Antichrist I would he had the grace to consider how it lyeth vpon him whiles he speaketh out of y e mouth of the Beast if he repeÌ„t not to turne from his euil wayes Let it further be weighed how ignorantly he chargeth me to coÌ„demne al Churches for this smale examplifying of this Egiption darknes Idolatrous worship and exalting mens writings into this defacing of Gods word and true worship they neither being guylty of such a sacrilegious Leitourgie as this Egiptian Calf hatched at ROME neither are to be presently iudged no Church for others sinne till they ioyne obstinacie to their transgressioÌ„ But shift the matter as you wil or rather as you caÌ„ apeare before God I wil not make lesse the sinne or the iudgmeÌ„t due to sinne for meÌ„s persons no not of whole Churches if they shal be guilty therin My desire is by discouerie of the sinne to bring men to repentance and vnto the awe of God in his worship who are guyltie besides your selues in such sacriledge as to abrogate the Leitourgy of Christ set vp an other or to restraine Gods true worship to giue life to y e image of the Beast it skilleth me not let sinne be sinne and God righteous and theÌ„ examine your selues if they or you be cleare I reioyce neither do I think or caÌ„ charge them with such Idolatrie as is here erected I take it you wil be found y e sclaÌ„derer of other Churches to hide your owne filthines But saith Mr. Giff. those scriptures are against the adding of humane preceptes lawes to be kept as partes of Gods worship to bind y e coÌ„science to seek righteousnes y e forgiuenes of sinnes or y e merit of eternal life in them or against such rules of gouernmeÌ„t as God hath to be perpetual In which we must take your meaning to be this that you graÌ„t where anie humane precepts lawes be enforced as a part of Gods worship or as lawes to bind the conscience or when righteousnes is sought in them and forgiuenes of sinnes by obseruing of them or merit by them or if they be against such rules of gouernment as God hath set to be perpetuall if the additions or constitutions be such as anie of these then such lawes and constitutions are against the perfection of the word of God against Christian libertie and in the chief things which conâ—erne Gods worship against the ground and foundation of our faith and so a thing most detestable accursed which our Sauiour CHRIST refused iustly to obserue with the blinde Phariseis wherein you haue granted as much as I euer affirmed For is not your whole Leitourgie being an other then CHRISTS Testament your whole reading mens writings in place and in stead of laying forth your owne present wantes and occasions in prayer to God humane constitutions and made a parte of Gods worship at least such pretended vvorship as you thinke good enough for him Weygh the matter vprightly Againe whither your whole Antichristian gouernment offices Courtes and ministerie be not constitutions and ordinances against such rules of CHRISTS gouernmeÌ„t as be perpetual and an
innovating of his Testament examine which you shall soone perceiue if you looke but what CHRISTS perpetual ordinances offices officers and lawes for the guyding ordering and gouerning of his Church be prescribing euerie one their place dutie limites ioyntly seuerally and not finde your ministerie registered there but a strange Leitourgie and worship borrowed from the Pope which came out of the bottomlesse pit confesse your sacriledge in suppressing CHRISTS whole ministerie and ordinances and erecting an other for the perpetuitie of his euen to euerie naile and pyâ— The holy Ghost sheweth that only to be his ministerie till we be all a perfect body in him and his whole ministerie and ordinances a kingdome that cannot be shaken Hebr. 12. Ephes. 4. a commandement to be kept vndefiled till the apearing of IESVS CHRIST his Scepter an euerlasting Scepter the Sonne as faithfull in his house as MOSES a seruant in the Tabernacle who made all things according to the paterne So that it is to be woÌ„dred Mr. GIFFARD should think anie part of Christs gouernment should not be perpetuall that was giuen by his Apostles the master buylders and layers of the foundation wherby all actions should be tried to y e worlds end May not Mr. Giff. as wel cal into question the perperuitie of the Testament as the lawes rules for the gouernment of his Church Now if your whole false Hierarchie Offices Officers Lawes Worship be plainly other theÌ„ CHRISTS as in our other writings are proued and shame will inhibit you to denye how can you be so drunke with the cup of the Whores fornication to think you haue no constitutions lawes or traditions which are a part of worship and against such rules of CHRISTS gouernment as the Apostles haue prescribed for the ordring of his howse and the same ordeyned for all Churches til we become all a perfect bodye in him But if Mr. GIFF. wil shew himself so voide of al conscience and truth to say al their traditionall worship and Antichristian Offices and ordinances be neither part of their woship nor constitutions disanulling the ordinances of Christ yet wil be confesse I doubt not this kinde of worship and gouernment to be imposed as matters to binde the conscience being all the â—eruice of God they haue seeing hee woulde also haue all that obserue them not to be censured and excommunicat for this merchandize yt were a sore matter a man should be cut off from Christ and his Church gyuen ouer to Satan and the iâ—dgment ratified in heauen against soule and bodye for a matter that byndes not the conscience As though the soule bodye howsoeuer some things perteine to the one or is done by the one as proper worke thereof were not both to be counted wheÌ„ the conscience shalbe opened to answere for all done in both or by eyther of both even whatsoeuer wee haue done in soule and bodye and Calvine would but diuide the soule and the bodye in Ciuile causes But Mr. Giffard would goe a note further namely that in the seruice of God in such causes as the transgression deserue excommunication to be no matter bynding the conscience But it may be Mr. Giff. doth suppose that except the constitutions ecclesiasticall be such as righteousnes be commanded to be fought in the doing them and forgiuenes of sinnes and merit by them all is wel Then besides the other abuses granted he must be demanded whither those traditions of the Fathers which our Sauiour Christ and his Disciples refused to obserue were imposed as meritorious whervnto wee answere No For in the superstitious washings of cuppes of beddes with al such trincketts wee see to be no such matter Marke 7. and Christs words in saying they layde the commaÌ„demeÌ„ts of God aside to set vp their owne traditions doth shew wherin the sinne was namelie to do and obserue such things of vaine glorie superstition or custome as God had not inioyned them and to leaue vndone the lawes and commandements of God which sinne is your transgression at this day Reade therfore the 7. of Marke 15. of Mathew more diligently Further those superstitious traditions Gal. 4. Colos. 2. the obseruing wherof were the denyall of Christ were neither held meritorious nor iustificatioÌ„ sought by them manie of them being Iewish ceremonies sometimes as rudiments commanded of God now abolished and no further burden to be layde in such outward thinges no We reade not that the law of God yt self was eyther commanded or so obserued as to seeke righteousnes by yt Now then to the matter Mr. Giff. thinketh CHRIST and his Apostles did well in refusing to obey the traditions of the Fathers at the Pharisies commandement and so must confesse it lawful and a dutie of vs to refuse to obserue your Iewish cerimonies and Romish superstitious traditions which are so manie as euen your whole Leitourgie and worship conteine nothing els Gods lawes and ordinances not only left vndone but al that pleade for them and seeke to walke in them persecuted with deadly hatred And how Mr. Giff. will proue that there is no adding or diminishing to or from the word of God by imposing and creating more lawes then God hath made in his vvorship and gouernment of his Church but such as bee made part of the vvorship or bynde conscience or bee meritorious or against such rules of his gouernment as bee perpetuall though I take all your orders lawes vvorship in this compasse yet howe you can poue this I know not for looke againe vpon the scriptures Pro. 30. 5. 6. Deâ—â— 4. 2. 12. 32. and. Gal. 3. 15. Reuel 22. 18. 19. and you shal finde that to add superordeine innovate or diminish or take anie thing from the lawes of God already prescribed for his vvorship were to abrogate his lawe to laye further burdens then hee hath layde to make his lawe vnperfect and set our selues in his seate yea vvhatsoeuer wee put to vvhich hee hath not commanded or whatsoeuer wee inhibit that hee hath commanded is here forbidden For this saith the Lorde Ye shall put nothing vnto the vvord vvhich I command you neither shall you take ought therefrom that you may keepe the preceptes of the Lorde your God vvhich I commande you Deut. 4. 2. And that this was as well in the outwarde ordinances of the Temple as in the iudgments is plaine in the first verse Againe in the 12. Chap. 32. VVhatsoeuer I command you take heede you do yt Thou shalt put nothing therto nor take anie thing therfrom and in the Prouerbs Euerie vvord of God is pure put nothing vnâ—o his vvordes lest hee reproue thee and thow bee found a lyer Now the scripture speaking so absolutely and generaly against al addition or detraction to or from his ordinances Mr. Giff. ouershooteth himself of his bare word to contradict and limit so expresse commandementes for these scriptures saith hee are against adding of humane preceptes and lawes to bee kept as partes of Gods
vvrship to bynde the conscience to seeke righteousnes forgeuenes of sinne merit in them or against such rules of gouernment as God hath set to be perpetuall This is true but this is not all for the lawe is generall against all inventions traditions constitutions vvhatsoeuer God hath not commanded as the second Commandment doth also teach Thou shalt not make to thy self so y t God hath left nothing to be layde vpon his Church by coÌ„mandement which he hath not coÌ„manded And therfore that place of the Apostle to the Gal. 3. 15. must be better pervsed If it be but a mans Testament vvhen yt is confirmed no man doth abrogate yt or superordeine anie thing to yt CHRISTS Testament then being much more perfect his vvhole minde for the ordering of his house manifested therin it is wicked presumption to alter the ordinances thereof or to holde them vnmeete or vnsufficient for anie age or estate Well Mr. GIFF. coulde nowe bee content thus far to limit the povver of the Church namelie to haue her subiect and obedient to his voice but that he supposeth there may be lawes ecclesiastical made of things in themselues indifferent that where the scripture hath commanded such things to be vsed at our libertie for order for comelynes edification and glorye of God as matters of place time and such circumstance But hee here mistaketh his text for the Lorde commandeth by the Apostle in that place 1 Corint 14. that those publique busines and exercises of the assemblies shoulde be done in order in comlynes to edifijng and doth not leaue somthing to bee commanded vvhich the maister buylders hath not prescribed For to binde those thinges by lawe vvhich God hath not bound in his worship wee are to add new traditious to bring vs into bondage of the creatures vvhich the same Apostle denyeth euer to bee brought into bondage vnto 1 Corint 6. 12. in his owne person teaching vs so to walke the Lord see in his wisdome cause to leaue them in our libertie knowing there vvoulde bee no end of such perticular lawes especially if he had left it to mans wyt to make and vnmake lawes therin For the orders you speake of then meaning circumstances of time place kneeling sitting standing c there can be no further lawes of them then the Apostle hath set and as the Minister of CHRIST prescribed that al be donne to edifying in comlynes order c. Of theis to set perticular lawes vvere to break these general lawes of God whereby he teacheth vs the true vse of them and leaueth them in the Churches libertie as need requireth to vse them or not vse them Neither can all assemblies bee bound in these thinges to the same in perticular that being needfull and decent in one that is not in an other And in that you woulde haue them no further commanded then they bee needfull convenient decent c you condiscend that there can bee no setled lawe in perticular layde vpon the Church in them For to vse them so far as they bee convenient necessarie and to edifijng is the lawe and commandement of God and to vse them further at anie mans commandement were both a breach of Gods lawe and making the creatures stumbling blockes Idolles bondages and euerie way sinnefull And when the Church commandeth them so far to be vsed as they are commanded of God the Churche doth but ratifye and see Gods lawe executed so that you haue lost your selfe whiles you shoulde haue proued your bold assertion That the Church hath power to ordeyne lawes for to create or make lawes which you see the folly of being nowe driuen to another shift that in the perticular thinges vvhereof God hath giuen generall lawes wee may make setled lawes and yet but for the tyme they be convenient Wheras in deed Gods lawe is the same and nothing ells But because they bee necessarye in one place that bee not in another at one tyme that bee not at another of some persons that bee not to other ther can bee no lawe sett in the perticular one daye for all assemblies in such thinges Neither shall anye disagreement bee such amongst the seueral Churches as need anye contention for them vvhiles euerie assemblye doe that vvich is to themselues most meet most convenient and necessary in such things for the present tyme. The Pastor and Elders vvere of small discretion if they might not haue these thinges in their libertie and euen these doctrines and examples are in this point against your selfe vvhich you haue alledged from other Churches But my purpose is not to contend about mens writings nor to be draweÌ„ into coÌ„trouersie with other Churches wheÌ„ I am to deale with your present sinne for the auoiding wherof you thus rage If your cause be good plead it by y e scriptures and I wilbe so farre from casting out darts against al Churches as I wil not deale with their estate till I be further occasioned the rather may I omitt this labour for that you haue alledged one place of scripture which you suppose wil beare â—p all your matter If yt helpe you not I see not how you wil deâ—end your assertion In the 15. of the Acts where it is said the Apostles Elders and brethren at Ierusalem met about the question of Circumcision and other Ceremonies of Moses lawe which some would haue burdened the Gentiles with we see there saith he that the Apostles themselues did decree some thing for y e time which afterward were to be altered when the occasion vvas taken away namelie that the Gentiles should absteyne from blood and from strangled for auoiding offence to the weak Iues. First let vs see what the decree was and then it will appeare how litle yt serueth Mr. Giff. his purpose these be the wordes Act. 15. 28. 29. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to lay no more burden vpon you then that vvihich is necessary of these thinges to absteyne from Idolothytes and from blood and from strangled and from forâ—iâ—â—tion froâ— vvhich keeping your selues yee doe vvell For one of these which is fornicatioÌ„ we haue here no question it being by the moral lawe alwayes forbiden For the other Mr. Giffard would thus reason The Apostles themselues did decree them for the tyme therfore the Church hath power to make and ordeyne lawes in things of themselues indifferent about the worship of God and publick exercises For our answere wee vvould haue Mr. Giff. first learne that he in saying y e Apostles themselues did this by the direction of the holy Ghost hath ouerthroweÌ„ himselfe for these were the Maister builders appointed of God to be law makers for the whole Leitourgie and vvorship of CHRIST to all posterities euen all the lawes and ordinances of the newe Testament confirmed by miracles from heauen deliuered by their ministery vnto vs It vvill not follow then if the Apostles had made and ordeyned some lawe here that therefore euerie Synode or anie Synode
like false Prophets commanding them to take heede of them teaching them howe to knowe them by their fruictes Math. 7. 15. 16 willing them to let them alone as the blinde lâ—aders of the blinde vsing an argument of the ineuitable peril If the blinde leade the blinde both shall fal into the ditch Math. 15. 12. 13. 14. chardging them to beware of the leauen of the Pharasies Math. 16. 6. which leauen verse 12. they found to be the doctrine of the Pharasies To these if sondrie other places of his conflictes with these Scribes Pharasies be added it wil euidently appeare that he withdrewe his Disciples from their doctrines pronouncing euerie where woes iudgmentes against them That he made also a separation and especiall choise of his Disciples from the wicked people of the Iewes euidently appeareth by the office and ministerie of Iohn the Baptist. vvhom he sent as an Heralde before him to prepare his waye to proclaime his kingdome to call the people to repentance and to make readie a people to receiue him lest when he came he should smite the earth with cursing Mightely did Iohn refute all these vayne arguments allagations that Giffard alleadgeth of the seede of Abraham the outward Couenant Nation Temple c. Shewing them that God was able of stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham calling those boasting Pharasies the generation of vipers shewing them that only those trees that bring forth good fruicte are the plantes that shall stand and growe in the Lordes Orchard that the other shalbe hewen downe and caste into the fire and that the Lordes axe is nowe laide to the roote Shewing them that the Messiah of whom they boasted and whom they looked for should come with his fanne in his hand to cleÌ„se his barne floore to preserue his wheat in his granarie and to burne the chaffe with vnquenchable fire baptising none but such as coÌ„fessed their sinnes The same course toke our Sauiour CHRIST sending forth his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdome who receiued and baptized none but such as repented of their euill life and gaue obedience to their doctrine these our Sauiour acknowledged receiued taught instructed guided as his owne peculiar flocke But al the other as the sheepe of distruction he gaue ouer to be spoyled and deuoured of their owne rulers and one of an other to be guided by those wicked and idoll sheepheardes vvhose soule abhorred him and his soule loathed them Yea how ful a separation there was betwixt these sheepheardes and these flockes the hostilitie they shewed vnto our Sauiour and his Disciples by excommunicating persecuting blaspheming him and his rounde reprouing them euerie where in the historie of his life doth appeare Furder that he communicated not with them in their feastes offrings and worship in this their sinne and obstinacie appeareth as plentifully He a longe season when the Iewes laid wayte to kill him refrayned Iudea and Ierusalem At other tymes when he came thither it was not to keepe the feastes together with them so much as to take occasion vpon such concurse of people to instruct them and to call them vnto himself He sometimes went not at all sometimes went at the mid-feast And when he was there he kept not the Paschal together with them before the Temple according to the lawe Deutronomie 12. 5. Leuit. 17. But he kept yt apart with his Disciples in a priuate chamber As when there was no publicke assemblies as in Egipt or when the Temple was shut or polluted and the vvorship corrupted Exod. 12. 2 Chron. 35. yea he kept yt vpon an other daye namely vpon the 14. of the first moneth according to the lawe and not vpon that daye the Iewes kept theirs which was a daye after as appeareth euidently by the historie Math. 26. For the Iewes solemne feast or cessation ought by the lawe to haue bene vpon the 15. daye the next day after the Paschal vpon which daye they crucified our Sauiour and kept their feaste vpon the Sabaoth deferring the Paschal by their tradition one daye longer then the lawe commanded Leuit. 2. 4. 5. 6. Numb 28. 17. by all which reasons circumstances and places it is euident that our Sauiour and his Disciples did not communicate with but withdrewe from the Iewes and their worship in this their sinne and obstinacie By whose example this great Clearke Mr. GIFFARD hath endeuoured to confute the Brownistes of heresie and to prooue that the open wicked and prophane may be kept in the Church and communicated with and yet neither the Church therefore cease to be a true Church nor the faithfull which together with these prophane ioyne in the worship of God and the Sacraments be defiled therbie Yet to make the matter more sure he bringeth certaine Churches planted by the Apostles As the Church at Corinth and the Churches of Asia In the Church of Corinth were factions and schismes corruption in the teachers negligence in the Gouernours th' incestuous person suffred contentions among the people and that vnder heathen Iudges They feasted in idoll temple they prophaned the Supper of the Lorde they abused spirituall giftes some denied the resurrection of the deade yet the holie Ghost vouchsaueth them the name of the Church of God Well what of all this Therfore the wicked prophane multitudes which were neuer rightly gathered to the faith may be receiued as members into the Church We see no such consequent The Church of Corinth was orderly gathered by the Apostle vnto the faith none receiued but such as belieued and made open profession of their faith and obedience Sainctes by calling Agayne the Church of Corinth was rightly established into that order and had such Ministers Officers and ordinances as CHRIST in his Testament had assigned and th' Appostle instituted so hath not the Church of England but popish and antichristian Therfore no comparison thus far foorth betwixt the Church of Corinth and the Church of England Neither can these faults wherein he compareth the Church of England to the church of Corinth and wherein it is founde like vnto or rather far without all comparison to exceede them make the Church of England the true Church of God What is yt then this learned man would conclude from thence That the open prophane and obstinate wicked may be retained in and by the Church wittingly and willingly after admonition and yet that Congregation not cease to be the true Church of CHRIST This he striueth to proue And therfore where it is alleadged that the Church of Corinth repented at the Apostle his admonition and is by the Apostle himself said to haue shewed them selues pure in that busines 2. Corinth 7. he maketh vnto this a double answeare One that they were Godes true Church before they repented The other that all did not shewe repentance as appeareth 2. Corinth 12. 20. 21. To the first we answeare and neuer denied That they being rightly gathered vnto the faith and orderly established
in the faith notwithstanding that grieuous sinnes brake out amongst them so long as they despised not admonition and refused not to repent were to be still held and esteemed as the true Church of CHRIST who if we confesse our sinnes is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all iniquitie But as we haue often said this maketh against Mr. GIFFARD because the Church of ENGLAND was no such true Church before that and wherein these faultes were and are committed Vnto his second allegation that all shewed not repentance for the vncleannes fornication and vvantonnes vvhich they had coÌ„mitted We acknowledge it as the Apostle recordeth it to be a great fault in the whole Church That they did not more diligently search out the sinne and speedely caste out the sinners that remayned impenitent Yet was this in the Church but a fault of negligence and not of anie obstinacye they neither contemnded admonition neither spurned against their admoniâ—hers Yet euen this slacknes and negligence the Apostle thus sharplie seuerely reproueth threatning if they amend not to come with a rodde and with the power of CHRIST against them He neither iustified nor flattered them in their sinnes as this false Prophet doth who hath no better argumentes to pleade for oâ— iustifie this apostasie and obstinacie of the Church of England then the greatest sinnes and odious faultes of other Churches But to such a height measure is their wickednes encreased as all the sinnes of all Churches in all ages are too narrowe to couer the bedd of their fornicatioÌ„ Neither can those fearefull breaches lamentable ruines in the Churches of Asia heale the wounde of the Church of England If God so threatned or menaced those Churches to come and feight against them to remoue their candle-sticke c vvhat shalbe the iudgmentes of the Church of England what can she expect whose sinnes so far exceede which taketh boldnes to contynue in sinne and pleade for the same from these examples which the Lord hath lefte as monumentes of terror to all posterities Yet in all these desolations of these Churches can there be no comparison betwixt these barbarous confuse assemblies and those Churches which sometymes were rightly gathered and established vnto the faith and into the order of CHRIST and so all Mr. GIFFARDS labour and paynes herein is lost Neither will this conclusion followe That because yt ceaseth not to be a Church by and by where the open wicked are not separated because the Church sometimes may fall into such sinnes of ignorance or of negligence Therefore the godly are not defiled which communicate with these open wicked in prayers sacramentes and other spirituall exercises Might he not aswel conclude that because yt ceaseth not to be a Church herevpon therfore yt is no sinne But if yt be a sinne in the whole Church then is the whole Church guiltie of defiled with that sinne NOwe as Mr. GIFFARD laboureth to drawe this conclusion so striueth he to proue this proposition That the admission of the open vvicked impenitent to the table of the Lorde doth not defile either the Sacrament or the faithfull receiuers Herevnto he hath gathered a fewe stale reasons 1. As that the wickednes of the Minister doth not difile the holy thinges of God Iudas Ely his Sonnes the Scribes Pharasies were wicked meÌ„ yet were the thinges they administered holie 2. Then that the godly communicant toucheth not the sinnes of others but the holie thinges of God because there cannot be a separation from the wicked in bodie or bodily thinges alwaies but they which touche not their sinnes obey the commandement Come out from amonge them separate your selues touche none vncleane thing That the blame of receiuing such wicked resteth only vpon such as haue the power of the discipline in their handes and not vpon priuate members which mourne lament to see such fowle matters wincked at which mourners are cleared Ezech. 9. TO discuse these pointes in perticular would make this discourse ouer long breiflie therfore this we say To the first that difference must be put betwixt hypocrites whose wickednes is onlie knoweÌ„ vnto the Lord and such wicked whose sinne is knowen vnto the Church The publicke ministrie of secret hypocrits that are rightly caled to a lawful office and execute their office without fault or blame is holie blessed and profitable to the whole Church which can but looke vpon and iudge the outwarde action and estate and not the hearte and conscience of anie yet this their ministerie is vnavayleable to themselues and maketh to their owne greater condemnation But where the Minister is detected of and remayneth obstinate in anie transgression his ministration is not acceptable to the Lord neither ought to be suffered or ioyned vnto of the Church The Lord willbe sanctified of all that come neere vnto him Vnder the lawe he required an holie ministerie to serue in the priestes office without outward mayne or bleamish lest he defiled the holie thinges of the Lorde The offerings of anie other were not acceptable to the Lorde It is also written that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abhomination to the Lord as if they cut off a dogges heade or offred swynes bloode They haue nought to doe to declare the Lords ordinances that hate to be reformed and caste his worde behinde them The Church ought not onlie to forbid such to administer but to cast them out of the fellowship which if the Church neglect and refuse to doe them are they guiltie of the open or wilful breach of Gods holie ordinances in suffring his holie name and ministerie to be prophaned yea in ioyning thervnto and reioycing therin The examples by him alleadged no waye help him Iudas whilest he remayned with our Sauiour was an hypocrite his sinnes vndiscoured yea vncommitted so longe in that estate his publicke ministerie was lawful holie and acceptable vnto others The ministerie of the Sonnes of Eli after their wickednes was publick wea abhominable vnto God to be detested of all the faithful yet was the sinne of the people verie great who vpon and for the sinnes of these wicked prestes abhorred the offringes of the Lorde which were euer to be esteemed most holie being lawfullie administred otherwise they are not the offrings of the Lord. The people then as nowe grewe into Atheisme and all impietie abhorring all Gods worship and refusing to be at anie chardge louing the creatures better then the Creator by seing the great insolency and inreverence of the prestes Touching the Scribes and Pharasies we haue alreadie said enoughe TO his other allegations that the faithful are not defiled by communicating with the open and obstinate wicked in the Supper of the Lorde and other spiritual exercises because they touche not the sinne of the wicked but the holy thinges of God c Surelie this is verie odd diuinitie contrarie to al the groundes of scripture that we haue read of We had
leaue out the word Apochripha thus Only the Canonical scriptures lyuely voice of Gods owne graces are to be brought into the publick assemblies for doctrine prayer But mens writings or Collections are neither Canonical scripture nor the lyuely voice of Gods graces in such as he hath appointed to speak in y e publick assemblies Therfore no mans writing may be brought into nor imposed vpon the publick assemblies for doctrine and prayer Now where he cauilleth about the perfectnes of the rule absolute perfectnes of the graces it doth not help him For the word of God being of necessitie by the lawe and ordinance of God to be read in our owne language I trust he will not denye yt to be the written word of God for the vnperfectnes of the translatiō being to the best search the Church can make skanned by the original tongue and stil amended or at least the Church no further bound to yt then yt shal be found to be the perfect rule so likewise the lyuely voice of Gods graces are not for the imperfectnes to be excluded being Gods appointed ordinance neither is anie fault in the translation to be allowed and errour in doctrine or prayer are presently to be admonished repented of Mr. Giffard then must denye the Bible translated into our owne language to be the Canonicall Scriptures and denye the lyuely voice of Gods lawfull officers and such as are therevnto called in doctrine and prayer to be the manifestations of the spirit and vtterance of Gods graces for the assemblie or els grant the proposition firme And if hee can put dead mens writinges into the place of either of these I will yeild In the meane time I hold such translations to be the worde of God and by Gods ordinance put into our owne language to all our knowledges retayning y e words of God which word the lyuely vse of Gods owne graces in the mouth of such as he therevnto appointeth are only to be brought into the publicke assemblies for prayer and doctrine for God hath cōmanded these vnto vs as his owne ordināces in his assemblies and no other means wherby either God speaketh vnto vs or his people vnto him in the Congregation To this all the scriptures beare witnesse the word is always firme confirmed with miracles from heauen and cōmended to vs by Christ the Prophetts Apostles to be the foundation Canon light lanterne c the graces of the Spirit gyuen for the interpretatiō prayer doctrine c. CHRIST is ascēded vp into heauen and hath giuen giftes vnto men to serue their tyme minister in their place in this house These graces stil renewed not only in those called of God in this seruice for their dayly administration but newe workmen thrust forth into this haruest as the Lord of the house disposeth which graces of his Spirit are compared to two oliue branches which emptie out of themselues thorow two golden pipes Zacharie 4. 12. And to seuen thunders which vtter their voices that cannot be written Away therfore vvith your patched mass-booke yt may neither stande for a foundatiō in Gods house nor for the lyuely voyces of these thunders you make yt a monstrous Idoll by putting yt in either of these vses yet you will make yt serue for both Wee haue nothing to do with your matters of order as you vnderstand that order for tyme place wee reason of the spirituall action yt self when wee entreat of y e meanes whereby God speaketh to vs and appointeth vs to speake vnto him Wee can cast out the errours in the translation or doctrine or prayer and yet retaine Gods vvorde in our owne language and the liuely voice of his graces in the assemblie When you can do so with your deuises and newe hatched Leitourgies wee will giue eare vnto you and them till then wee thinck of your counterfeit playes and pleas for your Idolls and detestable sacriledge and high prophanation of Gods ordinances with Iannes and Iambres to resist the truth Paraphrases wee hold to be mens writinges and expositions and not the word of God nor the liuely voice of Gods grace of interpretation or prayer therefore to be excluded this place of seruice vnto God Thus you see the further you wrastle the further you make your wares the best of them odious to euerie godly conscience You say I deceiue the simple by gyuing them one crabbe amongst many apples but you may behold your best apples such as the holy Ghost hath foretold vs Reuelations 18. to be entisements to euil It is well you will grant my Propositions so sound and I would wish if such be Gods wil they might be better favoured Nowe because I wil not stand either repeating or contending about Syllogismes I will take this much yeilded of your owne conclusions which is as much in effect as I haue affirmed where you teach me thus to reason No mans writings are the vndoubted truth of God but haue errours and imperfections therfore men cannot further ground vpon them then they be consonant to the Canonicall scriptures Againe The Church is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles Prophets therfore our faith is not to rest vpō mens writings Wherevpon doth necessarily follow that if mens writings may not be builded vpon nor rested vpon howe should you dreame it lawfull to impose them for lawes vpon the publick assemblies or to haue them there read to beare rule as the wordes of God And this you confessed in an other of your writings that God spake vnto vs out of his vndoubted worde or by his owne word If then God speake not vnto vs by mens writinges that be of priuate interpretation in the assemblie nor that they can be made groundwork to buyld our faith vpon or to rest assured vpon yt will be granted I hope that they are not to be imposed vpon the publick assemblies as lawes and rules but left to euerie mans priuate vse in their libertie as they wil answere for themselues what vse they put them to and whither they doe not prefer them before the booke of God or preiudice themselues by them This first poinct is then plaine That only Gods vndoubted worde is to be imposed brought in and maintayned in the publick assemblies as lawes and rules no other vvritings being authentick or Canonical But here Mr. GIFF. doth in effect affirme that the word of God yt self is not authentick or Canonical except in the Hebrew or Greeke Copie Wherein he goeth a litle beyond the Papists that wil yet allow the vvorde of God in latine And if it shoulde be defended that the vvorde of God vvere not the vvorde yt self that vvee haue in our owne language it wil follow that no mā could haue assurance of faith except he vnderstoode both Hebrew and Greeke yea be able soundly to interpret the scriptures in both If the translations be so far mens vvritings that yt ceaseth generally to be the vvord of God that