neither was it a seale of the Covenant of grace to Noe and his seed But was commaunded to Abraham and his seed and house-hold and such onely as would be of that Church and partake of the Passeover Therefore it not being commaunded to Noes sonnes such as abode in his faith howbeit scattered afarre of were doubles in the Covenant of grace still and saved as well as wee I say without circumcision for the same was not imposed on them And this is the judgement of learned men viz. Paraeus a Comment in Rom. 3.1 9.4 D. Willet b Comment Rom. ch 3. Q. 1. p. 146 Galatine c Lib. 11. c. 7. pag. 581. and the Hebrew writers d Maimony in Misneth Treat of Kings ch 10 sect 7. Treat circums ch 1. sect 3.6 say as much The next Scripture is Act. 2.39 For the promise is unto you and to your children and to all that are afarre off Even as many as the Lord our God shall call His whole answer hereto is this Though the promise be made unto such as are called yet who can shew that such are not to be counted outwardlie called and in some measure within the priviledge of the Covenant who being themselves alreadie baptized and withdrawing themselves from other sects and Churches doe bring their infants unto the true Church to be baptized being there also readie to make a publicke profession of their faith before the Congregation Thus hee Answ 1. For his phrase here to count men outwardly called I see no warrant for it in all the Scriptures For whomsoever in the judgement of charity wee can judge to be outwardlie called them I take it are by us to be judged inwardly called also Philip. 1.7 1. Cor. 13. I confesse indeed if wee haue respect unto God then it may be said that some are onely outwardlie called But who these some are wee cannot tell and therefore wee may not give sentence in it Ro. 14.14 If hee say that hee intended both then I answer 1. Hee should haue done well to haue spoken out plainly so 2. Then it must follow that all such Parents whose infants hee and others baptise be their conversation never so bad are notwithstanding in his opinion the elect and chosen of God 3. Hee ought not to keepe backe one of them from his Congregation if they desire to be members thereof Againe But if hee say hee judgeth them not to be inwardly called then by his owne confession it must follow that they want true faith and repentance and so hee giveth and that of knowledge holy things to the unworthy and to persons wholy uncapable thereof 2. I cannot tell what hee intendeth by the priviledge of the Covenant if hee meane Baptisme then I answer This ordinance is given to the Church and no person lawfully may be admitted to it unlesse hee be a member thereof * See the two next Sections If hee have any other meaning when I know it I shall be ready to give a further answer to it 3. For what reason doth hee add these words viz. and withdrawing themselves from other sects and Churches Is it not because as I sayd before hee would haue people thinke that it is not their practise to baptise all infants brought unto them Me thinkes if his heart perswades him that his case is good hee should not seeke thus closely to with-draw the Reader from the question but speake out clearely in it and to this purpose say It is the custome of the Dutch Church and my practise also that what infants soever are brought unto us for Baptisme to baptise them be the Parents of them holy or unholie members of any particular Church or not Yea howsoever wee know that the children presented unto us are Bastards yet if the Parents or in their absence some other doe shew a consent unto certaine questions either by nodding with the head or saying Yea Amen or so be it wee put them not backe neither ought wee but give them the holie seale of remission and pardon of finne Indeed this had bene plaine dealing and nothing but the truth And therefore whereas hee tels us of men outwardlie called withdrawing themselves from other sects And againe * Pag. 145. of having more knowledge of the truth c. then some of those that are members of the Church What is this but meere dawbing for what use serves it but like the rough garment to deceive Hee knowes and wee know it too If infants be brought in the manner aforesayd all is well it matters not whose children they be viz. whither English Dutch French c. nor how vile and wicked the Parents of them haue formerly alwayes bene to that houre and time I would not speake so often of this thing but that hee constraineth me to it in regard hee laboureth to hide from the Readers the true knowledge of the point in question But hence let it be considered whither in this hee give not cause of just suspition unto them to thinke that hee is ashamed to appeare a Defendant ‡ So hee cals himself in pag. 146. in the case as it stands simply and nakedly betweene us The last Scripture is 1. Cor. 5.12 For what have I to doe to judge them also that are without doe not yee judge them that are within To this first Mr. Paget answereth It is not plainely discribed how Mr. Davenport applies this sentence to the question in hand it had bene good if hee had shewed how hee had drawne his argument from hence Answ M r Paget among many Disputers had the least reason to make a complaint this way for hee in his writing not onely leaves the maine points in controversy untouched but also for the unnecessary matters which hee bringeth in they are such oracles or rather riddles as to understand them a man had need hee were either another Oedipus or had hee himself present to expound them Notwithstanding hee should have remembred that hee being the doer of the things in this controversy the burden of prooving lay directly on his shoulders And therefore it had bene his part plainely to have demonstrated from the Scripture that which hee affirmeth touching the Classis and Baptisme for one testimony or argument rightly drawne from the Apostolicall writings to justify these assertions will easily draw us to acknowledge them But till then though hee write ten volumes more and each of them ten times greater then this yet never shall hee be able to convince the conscience of any indifferent Reader in the points which hee hath undertaken to be a Defendant to wit 1. that particular Congregations are to be dependent bodies and to stand under other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves 2. That infants may be baptized whose Parents are not joyned to any particular visible Church But to the point This Scripture fitly serves to proove the point in hand for the scope and drift of the Apostle there
because they say Mr. Paget hath proceeded in every respect of this busnes with a good conscience If so then I answer Howsoever they thought it yet absolutely so to conclude was beyond their calling my reason is because it belongeth onely unto God * Ier. 17.10 2. Sa. 17.7 to judge infallibly of mens consciences Againe or doth the waight of it consist in this viz. because they say hee was unfit to be admitted to the Ministerie c. If so then in Augustins In his 48 Epistle to Vincent words I say insteed of all these learned Fathers or rather above them all Paul the Apostle commeth to my mind to him I runne to him I appeale from all Writers that thinke otherwise And that the opinions held by Mr. Hooker howbeit condemned by the Classicall Assembly and Deputies of the Synods are justifiable by the word of God it shall be manifested hereafter In the meane time I will here give the Reader a full sight of all this great matter wherewith hee thinkes to affright us and thus it may be laid downe Such persons whom the Classicall Assembly and the Deputies of the Synod shall judge unfit to be admitted to the Ministery of the English Church at Amsterdam they may not be admitted But so they judged Mr. Hooker Therefore c. To answer this argument I reason thus If as many and more and every way as learned wise judicious godly c. as the Classicall Assembly and the Deputies of the Synod doe judge Mr. Hooker fit to be admitted to the English Church at Amsterdam then hee may lawfully be admitted But the first is true Therefore the second Had Mr. Paget bene wise considerate hee would rather have sought to bury the memorie of these things then by his unnecessarie mentioning of them to compell me in my owne defence to write these things which otherwise I should not have done But let it be granted for reasoning sake that the truth is on their side notwithstanding I cannot see how they can lawfully require us to demit our selves to their Acts and sentences till they doe lay downe as their decrees so the word of God for the confirmation of them specially in points knowne unto them to be much doubted of and questioned both by our Elders and many more Wee are men that doe professe Religion and desire to doe Gods whole will and therefore cannot chuse but grieve and complaine when those which take upon them to be our Guides and Teachers will injoyne us to leave this thing or doe that and yet bring us nothing from the Scriptures to perswade our consciences to it D. Whitaker sayth * Cont. 4. 8. p. 883. Ecclesiasticall Officers if they will take heed to their flock as they ought must doe things not by force but by arguments and perswasions And there is good reason for it for wee well know that the word of God containeth all things needfull to be done or not done as may be seene in the places a Iosh 18. Deut. 5.32 Act. 20.30 2 Tim. 3.15.16 Ioh. 4.25 5.39 15.17 16.13 Rom 15.4 Act. 26.22 23. Mar. 12.24 here quoted And to this doe all our best Divines subscribe old and new as Athanasius b Cont. Gent. Isychius c In Levit. c. 16. l. 5. Hillarie d Lib. 6. de Trin. Epiphanius e Lib. 3. Her 75. Augustine f Epist. 198. ad Fortun. Chrisostome g In Mat. Hom. 19. Cyrill h l. 12. c. 68 in Ioh. 16. Lyra i In Prov. c. 31. Bruno k In Gal. c. 1 Bruno l In 1 Epist Pet. c. 5. Pareus m In Rom. 11.26 Alstedius n Praecog Theol. l. 2. p 127. Musculus o In Mat. 11.3 p. 103 Mollerus p In Ps 19.8 Ps 130. and others To end now the point as Iotham said to the men of Schechem so will I say to the Classis if ye have dealt truely and sincerely with our Elders and Church then rejoyce yee in Mr. Paget and let him rejoyce in you The 7 injury is to the Magistrate in publishing an unjust complaint against that which was done by them Answ Salomon * Pr. 12.18 Ch 26.22 Ps 140.4 Prov. 27.4 saith There is that speaketh like the peircing of a sword And the words of a tale bearer goe downe into the utmost part of the belly How well all this agreeth with Mr. Paget may be seene in this particular to wit in seeking to provoake the Magistrates against us Truely his dealing this way is most cruell for in pag. 29.30 hee perverteth our words and seekes to make such conclusions from them as tend to our undoing many wayes as if wee should count the Magistrates Tyrants Church-robbers Sacriledgious persons c. accusations of such nature as indeed the thinking of them makes me tremble Deliver me O Lord from the violent man who hath purposed to overthrow my going But who can stand before envy Now for answer to it 1. So long as I have bene in these Countries my care hath bene to walke dutifully toward the Higher Powers not willing at any time to thinke of them looke on them speake of them or to them but with much reverence For sure I am their authority is from God and therefore I have and still doe make conscience to obey their Lawes pay them tribute pray for them and give God thankes for them Eccl. 10.20 Rom. 13.2 Tit. 3.1 Mat. 22.21 1 Ti 2.1.2 Psal 20.1 as knowing it to be a singular mercy of God towards us that wee doe enjoy them 2. I am so farre from having the thoughts which hee suggesteth as I doe beleeve God knowes I lye not that there is not a people on earth this day better gouverned then wee are here are wholesome Lawes established good men cherished evill-doers punished and the poore comfortably provided for by which meanes wee lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlynes and honesty 3. I marvaill by what rule Mr. Paget went when hee made this threshing instrument of yron out of our writing Amos 1.3 I suppose his Booke learning will never beare him out in it but rather it will be generally thought of the godly wise that hee followed the councill of some reasonles passion then any commendable plat-forme of art and science But I pray Sir are you in good earnest that a man cannot abuse his interest in the Magistrates as wee said and meant but it must follow necessarily that they are Tyrants Church-robbers c. this you say But I deny that any such thing can be rightly gathered from the place For 1. wee never thought nor can thinke that the Magistrates deprive us of that liberty and power which Christ hath given to his Church because wee know that they doe not take upon them to elect and ordaine Ministers but give approbation unto such as by the Elders and people shall be chosen 2. Our words have
coyne twise or trise told over hee conceiteth that a Minister can not doe a thing in another Congregation but it must follow necessarily to be an act of his Ministerie 1. Cor. 14.24 Now hee should doe better to proove well once the point then to begge it so continually Besides to convince erroneous persons in the Church this is not alwayes a Ministeriall duety as hee unadvisedly affirmeth For men out of office may doe this as the word of God testifyeth and the learned teach * Beza annot in 1. Co. 14. Pet. Mart. in 1. Cor. 14 29.31 Paraeus in 1. Cor. 14.29 D. Ames de conse l. 4. c. 25. p. 215 Zwinglad Valent. compar Antibol avert Kinser Iac. Acont Strat. Sat. Sudek cont Turr. Soph. p. 67.68 Calv. Inst 4 1.12 Harm Syno Belg. pag. 21.22 Mr. Bates pag. 134. Defen Disc ag Bridg. 〈◊〉 129. Erast. True it is Mr. Paget hath bene a deadly enimy alwayes to it Notwithstanding never was hee able besides gibes reproaches to bring any thing to proove the unlawfullnes of it 3. The Churches of God at first had no Officers notwithstanding hee will not say but the Learned and able Brethren among them might convince erronious persons if there were just occasion for it Againe suppose a Church whose Pastours are taken away cannot get the assistance of a neighbour Minister to convince erronious persons then it seemes after his kind of disputing they must either all hold their peace what abilities soever they haue or if any one speake hee performeth a Ministeriall duetie or otherwise his talke here is quite besides the matter or just nothing which of these hee will owne for one hee must I leave it to his owne chose Lastly for these Scriptures Tit. 1.9.10.11 1. Timot. 5.20 they doe not proove any such thing for which hee brings them I grant indeed to refute erronious persons is sometimes a Ministeriall duetie and so is prayer reading the Scriptures expounding them c. Notwithstanding it will not follow when a Pastour doth these things in another Congregation that hee performes a Ministeriall duety or that Brethren out of office may not doe them also Yet this hee must proove otherwise his talke is like a tedious Musician ever turning never playing The 8 and last answer hee divides into 5 heads or branches Touching the 1 2 3 and 5 of them I except against in that they say nothing in the controversie betweene us and therefore they must stand aside In the 4 hee writes that members of the Catholike or Vniversall Church may have their infants baptised though they be not joyned to any particular visible Church To this I answer that hee neither speakes skillfully nor conscionably For 1. by the Catholike Church our Protestant Divines * Piscator Aphorism loc 19. p. 102. Perk. Expos Iude. p. 484. Vrsin Cat. part 2. pag. 347. Pet. Mart. Loc. Com. Class 2 p. 435. Polan Syntag l. 7. c. 4. p. 520. Alsted The. Polem part 4. p. 329. understand the company of Gods elect and chosen and hence name it ‡ D. Whita cont 4. Qu. 1. p. 78. Park Eccl. Polit. l. 3. p. 210. D. Reinol praef 6. Conclus p. 667. invisible spirituall misticall Yea some * Beza in Praef. Nov. Test printed 1561. D. Humphr in the life of Iewel D. Sutclif Chaleng l. 1. doe dislike the terme it self and call it a vaine and fruitles word And well they may for the Scripture hath it not neither is the author of it knowne but supposed * Sanford de Descend Dom. Nost ad in fer lib. 4. p. 28. and 30. to be a Papist But to the matter in hand If no infants out of particular visible Churches ought to be baptised but them whose Parents are knowne to be members of the Catholike Church then it will certainly follow that no infants whose Parents are not members of any visible Church may be baptised because the others are knowne to God onely Observe here how hee confutes himself and brings one argument forth against his owne case And indeed it is just with God that those which contradict the truth should contradict themselves most grosly too 2. Unconscionably to affirme a thing of such waight and consequence without shewing any word of God for confirmation of it doth hee thinke that wee owe him such obedience as to beleeve things because hee saith them If hee doe hee is greatly mistaken for to speake in another mans words Wee are not bound to Mr. Pagets writings wee esteeme them not as Canonicall but wee examen them by the Canonicall and what in them agreeth with the authoritie of Divine Scripture wee receive with his prayse What accordeth not therewith wee refuse with his leave Besides hee knowes well enought that mens sayings are of no force and value in matters of Religion without warrant from the Scriptures So say the Prophets a Deut. 13.1.2.3 Ezech. 13.2 Mich. 7.13 Ier. 23.31 Ezech. 14.9 so sayth Christ b Mat. 15.9 Iob. 5.39 his Apostles c 1. Cor. 3.21 Gal. 1.8 Iam. 2.1 Rom. 16.17.18 and thus write the Learned Tertullian d In Apol. Ignatius e Epist ad Hier. Hierome f In Psal 86 Basil g Serm. ad Adol Ambrose h L. 3. de incar Dom. Augustine i Epist 198. ad Fortun. Chrisostome k In Gal. c. 1. Aquinas l Lib. 9. art ult Calvin m Instit l. 1. c. 10. sect 8. Melancton n Loc. Theo. p. 627.628 Bucanus o Lec Com. p. 532. B. Iewel p Repl. art 1. Div. 29. Defen Apol. p. 604. Chassauio q Loc. Com. p. 98. Vrsinus r In Iesai c. 14. p. 450. and others In his writing against us hee is alwayes calling for testimony Where is their warrant where is their authoritie c. notwithstanding who more forward then himself to send things out into the world without proofe Before I end this point there are a few questions which I thinke very needfull to propound unto him Touching his Catholike or Vniversall Church 1. By what Scriptures the name and nature of it is warranted 2. VVhither all Parents with their infants Iewes Turkes and Pagans excepted be members thereof or not 3. VVhat are the notes of it 4. VVhither wee are to judge all the members of this large Church to be true beleevers 5. If this universall Church be visible then I would know of him why there ought not to be proportionable to it a universall Ministery and gouvernment I suppose hee will be willing to give a direct answer unto these things because hee professeth to have a great desire to informe his opposite Brethren in the truth Pref. The next Scripture is Coloss 4.17 And say to Archippus take heed to the Ministerie which thou hast received of the Lord that thou full fill it To this hee sayth nothing but referreth the Reader to the answer made to the former allegation onely hee
granted which hee cannot proove that those Christians at Antioch consenied to the doctrine of the Gospell by answering Yea to it or bowing their heads in testimony of their approbation of it Yet this helpes not his case at all unlesse hee can proove 1. That they were not members of any visible Church 2. That their conversation was irreligious 3. That they presented their infants to the Minister in the Congregation and after saying Yea or nodding the head to some questions propounded had them baptised Thus are his answers very wind and no more savour in them then in the white of an egg eaten without salt The next allegation is Gen. 17.10 This is my Covenant which yee shall keepe betweene me and you and thy seed after thee Everie man child among you shall be circumcised Mr. Paget to this answereth It can not hence be shewed that more questions were propounded to the Parents which brought their children to be circumcised then are now in the administration of Baptisme c. Or that such had circumcision denied unto their children which shewed a willingnes to embrace the Covenant by such brief answers and gestures wee speake off Answ Here are words but in truth not a word concerning the matter for which hee bringeth them This Scripture Gen. 17.10 was alledged to shew that such are to be counted Christians children and so consequently to have right unto Baptisme whose Parents at least one of them in externall profession are within the Covenant Thus writeth Mr. Davenport Now if a man read the others reply hee must needs confesse unlesse hee will confesse himself to be a Simplician and ignorant in Logicke and Religion that it is as indisgested a thing as ever was broched by a man of learning much better therefore it had bene if hee had left this loose kind of reasoning and either disprooved some part of the others proofe according to the rules of reason or yeelded to the conclusion which followeth by force of argument But to make a short answer to his speach although it looke not unto the thing for which hee devised it 1. How doth he know that there was a Leiturgie of Circumcision in the Church of God under the Law and that it was propounded to those Parents which brought their children to be circumcised This I lay up on him as another invention of his owne for it is most certaine never was there such a thing practised by the Fathers in old time neither haue the Iewes in these dayes any humane forme among them Besides if their writings * Syntag. In. c. 2. p. 80. Drus praet 〈◊〉 7. Purchas Pil. l. 2. c. 14. sect 4. p. 204.205 be searched which treat of the manner of circumcision there will be found no such thing in them whereof hee speaketh Among many other good properties which hee himselfe saith hee hath one is that * Pag. 104. hee is no inventer of new conceits and opinions But surely if the rest there be not truer then this hee will be found an untrue speaker in them all Further I would know of him what hee intendeth by embracing the Covenant for I perceive hee seeketh advantage by double construction of words Is it his meaning that those which were no Iewes nor members of the Iewish Church yer brought notwithstanding their infants unto the Preists and when they had answered to some questions either by saying Yea or nodding with the head they had them immediately circumcised although themselves remained still out of the communion and fellowship of the Church If this be his meaning as it must needs be unlesse his meaning were to write just nothing then I doe affirme that in this hee hath spoken irreligiously injuriously and untruely 1. Irreligiously to have the seale of the righteousnes of faith to be made an unholy thing 2. Injuriously to accuse Gods chosen of finne causelesly 3. Vntruely and thus I proove it None might eat of the Passeover unlesse they were members of the Iewish Church Exod. 12.6.45 But all circumcised among them might eat of the Passeover vers 44. Therefore all the circumcised among them were members of the Church If the Reader desire to know further about this thing let him him peruse Mr. Ainsworths Annotations on Genes 17. and Exod. 12. and there hee shall see what the Iewes write of it viz. that none are to communicate with the Church in the ordinances of circumcision and the Passeover but such as are members thereof The next Scripture is Rom. 4.11 And hee received the signe of circumcision a seale of the righteousnes of saith which hee had yet being uncircumcised Mr. Pagets answer to this allegation may be cast into 3 heads or branches 1. Abraham is called the father of all that beleeve whither members of a particular Church or not 2. There might be some beleevers in Abrahams time not members of his familie nor under the gouvernment of any particular Church 3. If a sonne or bond servant of Ephron the Hittite were then brought to the knowledge of the true God c. why might not the infant of such a one have bene circumcised though not living in a visible Church Answ I will not say that Mr. Paget hath read Antonies precept in Tully * De Orat. l. 2. who wisheth men if they be troubred about a hard question to say nothing to it But this I can say of him by experience hee fol owes that rule closely For as before so here againe hee useth many words but answereth not at all to the point in hand This Scripture as may be seene in the place ‡ Iust Comp. pag. 5. was brought to proove that as Abraham received circumcision when hee was a member of a visible Church so consequently baptisme which comes in the roome thereof belongeth peculiarly to such as are joyned to some particular Congregation Mr. Paget perceiving as it is probable the strenght of the argument cunningly withdrawes himself from it and that the Reader might not see it hee sets downe 2 or 3 conceited fancies of his owne unto which briefly thus I answer 1. Imagen I should deny that there were in Abrahams time any beleevers out of his family or contrarywise say I grant there were what would hee hence inferre for my part I know not nor yet hee himfelf I am perswaded 2. Concerning his why not I aske of him for his why so Is it the manner of Disputers to propound a case and then aske of the standers by Sirs why may it not be thus If there be any Divine patterne for such a practise it now concerneth you Mr. Paget to shew it If you cannot as I am sure you cannot then I wish you in such cases hereafter to shurt your lips * Pr. 17.28 and so you shall be esteemed a man of the better understand But to deliver you if it may be from your vaine conjectures and doubts As for circumcision it was not commaunded to the Gentles at all
is to shew that members of visible Churches haue onely right unto the publicke ordinances administred therein As for others they are not to be judged that is in those publicke things the Church hath no relation to them nor may I say in this respect haue communion with them And hence I reason thus If the infants in questiō are without then may they not be admitted unto Church communion and so consequently not to baptisme But they are without Therefore c. The proposition is manifest by this Scripture 1. Corint 5.12 The assumption is evident and needeth no proofe After this hee tels us of 3 sorts of persons which may be said to be without 1. Members of a visible Church wanting true faith 2. Infidells and Heathens 3. Those that for the present live not under the Discipline and Gouvernment of some particular Church and yet make profession of the same Religion with the true visible Churches c. This later practise some imperfect communion with them and therefore in some sence may be said to be of such Churches Answ 1. Howsoever the Lord knoweth who are his yet cannot Mr. Paget nor any man else judge men to be without true faith and so no members of the invisible Church specially they standing members of some particular Congregation and therefore his talke here is altogether fruitles and nothing concerneth the place 1. Cor. 5.12 which hee pretendeth to answer 2. The difference which hee puts betweene men without is without warrant of Scripture Paul as Paraeus * Comment on 1. Cor. c. 5. v. 12. p. 272. well observes on this place divides all men into two ranckes the first and greater without the later and lesser within And howsoever th 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for personall gifts and graces are not alike notwithstanding as they stand in relation to a visible Church-state they differ not But are all alike excluded from actuall communion in the publicke ordinances thereof As wee see in a desert or willdernes diversitie of trees some good some bad some are thornes and brambles others are vines and fig-trees nevertheles in respect of a Vineard or Orchard they are quite out of the same a like 3. For his imperfect communion it is a perfect invention of his owne head for the word of God teacheth no such thing Againe where hee sayth they are members of the Church in some sence and not in another this likewise is another of his fictions And observe here how hee pleads for the prophaine multitude just as doe the Papists for their Pope in one respect hee is a man in another respect hee is more then a man Iew. Defen Apol. 6. part c. 20. Divis 3. p. 784. One way hee may erre another way hee cannot erre But not minding to spend much time about the thing for the naming of it is a sufficient resutation this I say a man must either be a member of a particular Church formally otherwise hee cannot be reputed a visible member of it in any sence or respect at all If hee can proove the contrary by the word of God it lyeth him now upon it to doe it In the meane time let the discreet Reader judge whither hee be not guilty of venting new conceits and opinions of his owne And whither by these his new conceits and opinions hee doe not gratifie the Valentinians Marcionites and Gnostikes Who as Irenaeus a Advers Haer. 8.3 c. 7. l. 1. c. 1 reporteth did seeke to bring into the Church mens devises And whither hee doe not gratify the Trent-Councell b Conc. Trid. Sess 4. dec 1 Fathers and the Papists yea moreover the Cabala or Talmud c 4. Esd 14.26.48 of the Rabbins and the Montanists d Tertul. de praeser adve Haer. c. 52. For the sinne for which these chiefly are condemned is because they haue broched many lies and beastly vanities as if all things concerning faith and manners were not contained in the Scriptures Thus wee haue examined Mr. Pagets Answers to the allegations of Scriptures brought by Mr. Davenport Now least hee should complaine against me for some partialitie I thinke it not amisse to write a few words touching that Scripture which hee mentioneth in pag. 44. namely Mat. 3. If hee cannot find a better ground then this to lay his unlimited Baptisme upon surely then the same will never proove to be lawfull For 1. the persons there specifyed through Iohns doctrine powerfully caried home to their consciences had their hearts deeply wounded ‡ Paraeus Comment in Mat. c. 3. v. 6. p. 29. with the sence of sinne and thereupon made open confession thereof 2. That which they did was done freely * Aret. in Mat. 3. pag. 119. and voluntarily 3. The same was accompanied with a desire * Muscul in Mat. 3. p. 24. and purpose of amendment of life 4. They were members of a visible Church 5. The Baptiser was no ordinary Minister Now then how can Mr. Paget hence proove that men not humbled by the word preached not manifesting any sorrow for sinne not shewing any desire of reformation of life not members of any particular Congregation may neverthelesse haue their infants lawfully baptised by a Pastour or Teacher they saying Yea or nodding with the head to some questions imposed upon them or having others to doe it in their behalfe I doe not thinke it strange that hee could not prevaile as hee sayth with Mr. Davenport by such conference in the point for in truth as this allegation so is the rest there of his talke a rope of sand as an overblowne bladder that will burst of it self and vent the wind thereof without pricking And thus much for this Section SECTION V. WHereas Mr. Paget hath so often called upon me by name to proove the Protestation published against him to wit that hee hath bene many wayes injurious to our Congregation My purpose is by the Lords assistance in this and the following Sections to set downe the same And because all our troubles haue proceeded as it were from two causes viz. the Baptisme of Non-members and the denying of the Churches power I shall therefore speake of these two things the more fully And first of the Baptisme Now the reasons which I haue against it are these ARGVMENT I. To breake that sacred order which God hath set in his visible Church for all his Saints to keepe and walke by is a great sinne But to baptize infants whose Parents are not members of any particular Congregation is to breake that order c. Therefore it is a great sinne to doe it The proposition is evident by these Scriptures 1. Cor. 14.33 ult 1. Cor. 5.13 Num. 23.9.10.11.21 and 24.5.6 1. King 14.1.17 Son 6.4 The assumption is as cleare For let it be observed that unto all Church-actions as there is Faith so order also necessarily required And hence is the difference onely betweene Christian-communion and Church-communion to practise Christian-communion there needeth
THE CHVRCHES Plea for her Right OR A REPLY to an Answer MADE OF MR. IOHN PAGET Against WILLIAM BEST and others WHEREIN The maine points of our present differences are handled And the principall causes of our troubles declared Published by WILLIAM BEST I. Thes 5.21 Proove all things hold fast that which is good Psal 119.128 I esteeme all thy precepts concerning all things to be right and I hate every false way At AMSTERDAM Printed in the Yeare M. DC XXXV A Fore-Speach To the Christian Reader IT was a seasonable saying of Nichodemus * Ioh. 7.51 standing in our Lords defence Doth our Law judge any man before it heare him and know what hee doth I make no question Well-affectioned Reader but thou hast before this time perused Mr. Pagets Booke and hast there seene many words tending to his owne justification and our condemnation Now the thing that I shall desireously request of thee is that thou wilt haue the patience to read over this my Answer to it And when thou hast seriously studied pondered and examined by the unerring rule of Gods Word all that both parties haue said in the whole caraige of this busines judge then as God shall give thee understanding Wishing thee by the way to remember what folly and shame it is for any as Salomon * Prov. 18.13 sayth to answer or give sentence of a matter before hee heare it There are some things which I thinke necessary first of all to informe thee off and that is touching the reasons why I haue set forth this Treatise Also why in the manner it is For the first to let passe the many insultations and exclamations which I haue suffred at some particular mens handes since his writing came forth as if every thing were true that he hath set downe against me I am oftē by name particularly called upon and singled out to defend our Iust Complaint made against him Besides accused of committing many untruths slaunders lies with other crimes little lesse then blasphemy and this not against himself alone but Magistrates Ministers yea all Reformed Churches If I should therefore under these heavie charges say nothing would not most men hence conclude that I am guiltie And so through my silence I should which I dare not doe dishonour God betray the truth and let goe my owne innocency Moreover I conceive that it lay upon me though the meanest of my Brethren to reply considering that the Booke of Complaints was set forth chiefly by my meanes Now my conscience for my part beares me witnes that I did the thing out of love towards God his truth and people and not as is falsely suggested of contention and a peeuish mind And I was thereto mooved the sooner 1. because the same was in many mens hands already and so rather publicke then private 2. We had waited almost a quarter of a yeare for answer but could not obtaine it although M r Paget was spoken unto many times about it 3. It was given out that hee had writen 12 or 15 sheets of paper against us and intended shortly to acquaint the world therewith when this report was brought unto me I thought it requisite having the copies by me immediately to publish them that so seeing hee would publikely write in confutation thereof men might truely understand what our particular grieveances were And these causes of great and good regard led me to doe what I did Of which more is spoken in another place Lastly whereas I haue had occasion to sit many times in our Consistory Hence I haue taken a more full and certaine knowledge of our common Ecclesiasticall affaires I mean observed the unfreenes of our Congregation and her subjection to the power of the Classis and in this regard as I know my self the better able to give testimony of the truth in the matters betwixt us so I thinke my self the more called to speake what I truely may in the just defence of my self and others For the manner of this writing Whosoever shall consider either the subject here treated off or the persons whom it chiefly respecteth will I thinke confesse that there lay a necessity upon mee to use the best meanes I could to haue it done unto some effectuall purpose But for my part I must confesse and so I would haue all men in all places to know that I am not in my self of the abilitie to compose a worke of this nature And therefore thorow my entreatie and desire others more able haue taken some paines for me herein both in seeking out learned Authours as also setting them downe in the places as they stand On whose fidelity skill and care I haue presumed the publishing of them to the world having this confidence in the person or persons that they will stand to justify all the allegations according to the end and use here produced And if just occasion be offered it may be they will adde some thing more thereunto As for the truth of the matter this I owne under my owne hand And to use here Mr. Pagets words for the testimony of this truth I am not ashamed to suffer that reproach which some lay upon me Though I have allready bene smiten on the right checke Preface yet I am ready to turne the other also rather then to forsake this truth which I iudge to be of great importance Yea if I were cast upon my death-bed ready to deliver up my soule in the hands of the Lord I should among my last words professe before men and Angels that the things here pleaded for by me are the holy precepts of the eternall God The reason why I haue not followed him steppe by steppe throughout his Booke but haue principally insisted upon two points viz. promiscuous Baptisme and the due power of the Church is because on these depend all our differences For if it be true as it is here prooved to be most true that it is unlawfull to baptise any infants whose Parents one at least are not members of any visible Church And that every particular Congregation is independent and may yea ought to practise Ecclesiasticall Government and all other Gods spiritual ordinances in and of it self immediately from Christ Then it will follow that our former protest is certainly true against him And so much the premises granted is by himself acknowledged for thus hee sayth If this Church be deprived of that liberty and power which Christ hath given it c. Preface If the Elders be deprived of their power in Government for the good of the Church If I have subiected the Church under the undue power of the Classis c. If these and the like assertions in their Booke he true then is there cause to complaine of the miserable slavery and bondage of this Church and of Tyrannicall government Then is there cause to commend and preferre the liberty and freedome if the Brownists which are not subject unto the power of any
Classis or Synod c. Not to trouble then the Reader with unnecessary discourses I am well contēted in this to joyne issue with him that so all wise and judicious Readers studious of the truth by this meanes may the sooner perceive where the fault is and censure it accordingly Touching Mr. Pagets person I hope all men shall see by the care which I haue had to avoyd all bitternes and unreverend speaches howbeit often provoked to it that I beare no ill will against him truely I doe not For the Lord is a witnnes to my conscience I ly not that I wish his good many wayes and shall be glad to heare that the Lord before his changing doe give him repentance for the evills which hee hath committed against the Congregation and other good Servants of God Howsoever my hope is that his sinne herein hath bene of ignorance and so God for his Sonnes sake will pardon it to him So for the Classis they are men whom I much reverence and worship God with my soule for the gifts and graces which appeare in them Notwithstanding for their assuming unto themselves authority over our Congregation This my mind gives me is their fayling and it cannot by Gods Word be justified Besides wee are a people of another Nation whose language they know not at least most of them and therefore to me it seemes strange that they should undertake the care and charge of us being in this regard most unfit for it I am perswaded put aside this last age there will not be found an example of the like practise anywhere since the Apostles dayes To draw unto a conclusion the thing that I chiefly ayme at is that the Churches of God hereafter may keepe practise the ordinances of Iesus Christ and not under a pretence to haue things better then the Lords owne institutions to give place unto the sinfull devises of men Let us consider Moyses words Ye shall observe to doe as the Lord your God hath commaunded you Deut. 5.32 You shall not turne aside to the right hand or to the left When worldly Princes make any statutes their subjects are carefull strictly to doe them without putting thereto ought of their owne How much more c. And as for any answer that shall be made unto this Treatise this I shall desire in it 1. that all by-matters be layd aside and the truth followed in love without gibes reproaches bitternes c. things unbeseeming the Saints of God Esa 8.20 2. That Scripture-proofes be brought for the matters in cōtroversy betwixt us To the Law and to the testimony All Scripture saith Paul is given by inspiration of God 2. Ti. 3.16 and is profitable for doctrine for reproofe for correction for instruction in righteousnes 3. I doe wish that whatsoever shall be writen may be done to the glory of God as of sincerity and for the truths sake In short I suppose few will take it amisse that I haue now answered for my self considering how often he hath called upon me for it Where is his warrant where is his proofe c. And seldome am I named but am charged with lying slaundering and the like Besides it is given out that hee professeth a marvelous desire to see his Booke answered before hee dies Now as hee shall haue his content herein so God grant that hee make that good use of it as hee ought and I wish hee may WILL. BEST The CHVRCHES plea for her right OR A Reply to an Answer made of M. IOHN PAGET against WILLIAM BEST and others Wherein the said WILLIAM BEST cleares himself of the imputations laid upon him and makes it evident unto all men that the cause and ground of our present troubles hath chiefly proceeded through Mr. PAGETS unjust dealing with his people SECTION I. THat Mr. PAGET might the easier perswade the Reader to be on his side Answer to the Preface and to thinke his case right and good hee seeketh in the Preface of his Booke to disgrace exceedingly the publisher of the just complaint against his unjust doings And this hee doth two wayes First in affirming that hee sought helpe of the Brownists Secondly that hee is a simple person one of the least understanding among the Subscribers ANSWER 1. IT is untrue that I sought any helpe of them For I never spake to any of them about the thing but onely to the Printer And it was nothing but this viz. that hee should make a title Page answerable to the copy whereas therefore hee insinuateth that the Brownists were chief agents in the worke and encouraged me and others against him This is not so For to my knowledge not any of them were made acquainted with the thing untill I brought it to the presse And the reason why I made use of him it was not because of his Religion but because hee was an English Printer and therefore the more fit as I thought to be imployed But indeed a simple man may easily gesse for what end and use hee names these men hee doth it much like Sanballats devise against Nehemiah to have matter for an evill report Neb. 6.13 and that hee might reproach me Hee knew well these people are hated of the world and spoken in many places badly off and therefore doubted not but most men would give sentence wholy on his side when they should heare that his opposites sought helpe of them And that which I here say I say it on good ground For whensoever in his harsh and passionate writing hee goeth about as often hee doth to make us vile in the eyes of all men hee compares us with the Brownists not prooving against us any sinne but concludeth wee doe evill whensoever in any thing wee accord with them Many instances I could give for proofe hereof as for example in pag. 6. seeking to discredit many of us about the Lords Supper hee tells us our plausible speaches and pretences of reverence to it are such as the Brownists will say So in another place charging us with pretended reverence to the Classes and Synods Hee saith the Brownists themselves will seeme to give as much Pag. 84. Againe to reproach some of the Brethren for certaine exercises which they used privately in their families wee are told that the thing is worse then that which the Brownists doe Pag. 105. VVhen wee complaine against him for depriving us of much heavenly meanes of edification Hee answereth that the same may be found in such as Mr. Ainsworth Mr. Iohnson Mr. Robinson and Mr. Iacob Pag. 121. Now is not this fine reasoning and well beseeming a Teacher in Israel * The like doughty reasons hee gave to Mr. Daven to perswade him to be of his judgement in pag. 40.41 in truth as very a Simplician as hee makes mee to be yet I suppose I would not write to so small a purpose For in my understanding hee reasoneth to this effect The Iesuits and other
at all Many other perswasions by words as a so by writing were delivered in Dutch Notwithstanding for all this they would not revoake their sentence but confirmed it a new Is Israel a servant is hee home borne why is hee spoiled But to the point this record to use Mr. Pagets * Pag. 49. words in the like case is an authentick witnes not lyable to exception for what I have here said is recorded in the Acts of our Consistory * Octob. 12. 1631. And that this was to hard a dealing with us I proove it thus 1. There ought to bâ— nothing as Beza * Epist 83. saith imposed on a people against their wills Now imagen that our owne Eldeâ—ship should decree a thing either to be done or not yet could they not enjoyne us by any Law of God to obey them in it further then wee our selves doe see the same to be lawfull and so voluntarily assent unto it And if it be so then by what authority can Officers of other Congregations require us to stand to their acts specially when wee neither like them nor judge them good It seemes Zwinglius was against such doings Ad Valent. Compar for hee saith Whosoever with a Councill of Bishops shall impose on Christian people any Law or observation at their owne liking hee meaneth without the peoples consent hee invadeth the Churches right by a violent commaund Artic. 64. In another place Such Elders as without the Churches consent decree things at their owne pleasure are in name Elders but indeed Tyrants Cyprian * Cypria l. 4 Ep. 21.34.46.26.32 14.31 in sundry places writes that all matters ought to be determined by the Bishops Elders and the people present and consenting Otherwise sayth hee matters are not firme and sure For this very case Chemnitius * Exa Conc. Trid part 1 pag. 3. condemneth the Councill of Trent viz. because they set downe their decrees as it were uncontroulably and not under the examination of the Churches D. Bilson * Cont. Ap. p. 9â— saith that no Councill can bind a whole Church except there be a generall consent 2. Seeing the authority of particular Congregations is as Mr. Parker ‡ Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 13. p. 130. saith and largely prooveth it above all Synodes I cannot see what reason a few men haue to take upon them the subjecting of a whole Congregation to their decrees yea and to * Yet thus dealt the Claswith our Eld. because they admitted Mr. Hooker to the Pulpit contrary to their act De Ro. Pont. pract pag. 2. Censure the Eldership if they though with the Churches liking doe contrary to it It was not the manner of Bishops saith D. Whitaker in the primitive times to assume unto themselves jurisdiction and gouvernment over others 3. If it be right * See Park-Pol Eccl. l. 3 c. 12. p. 88. that the common desire of a particular Congregation in things lawfulll should take place before one mans opposition to it then I take it the matter was not well caried when Mr. Paget prevailed against the Eldership and Church too 4. This practise is contrary to the old rule generally received among the learned That ‡ Amb. lib. de dig Sacerd 3. which concerneth all ought of all to be approoved But some may say how is this to be done I answer in the words of D. Fulke * Learned Discours of Eccles disci p. 86. That the Elders sayth hee may have their sentence to be the sentence of the Church they must when they have travailed in examining of cases propound them to the whole multitude that it may be confirmed by their consent Observe here how according to this mans opinion the Classis should first have propounded the thing to our Congregation and if wee jointly had approoved thereof then might they have concluded that it was a Church Act otherwise not 5. Howsoever the Classes have joyned with Mr. Paget against us and they together deprived us of Mr. Hooker and Mr. Davenport notwithstanding hetherto wee have not seene them to warrant their proceedings by the Scriptures and therefore in this respect wee also take it that they have dealt too hardly with us For who knoweth not that in all questions of this nature no other testimony or argument can strike the stroake to perswade the conscience but the word of God for as one * Chrisost in Psal 95. ad finem well saith If any thing be spoken without Scripture the mind of the heareth halteth now sticking at it sometimes turning from it as frivolous sometimes turning to it as probable But when the testimony of the speaker commeth from Divine Scripture it confirmeth both the speach of the speaker and mind of the hearer But as for the Classis all that wee haue yet heard or seene from them for the justification of their Acts against us hath bene either the order * This is the reason they give in their act against Mr. Hooker why hee should not preach it was against the order of the Churches in these Countries of the Church or custome or tradition Now what saith God by Ieremy ‡ Cha. 10.3 The customes of the people are vaine Whatsoever savoreth against the truth is Heresie even old custome said Tertullian * De veland Virg. Custome saith ‡ Cypr. Ep. 74. ad Pomp. another without truth is the mother of errour And in another place * In l. 2. Ep. 3. ad Cicil. Wee must not follow the custome of men but the truth of God To the same purpose speakes Beza ‡ In Luc. 23.27 and others As for orders wee are so farre to be ordered by them as they accord with the order of the Gospell Touching Traditions wee know well enought what they say against them when they deale with the Papists Besides doth not Mr. Page tell us and that * Pag. 37. truely that many worthy Divines are sometimes mistaken Why then may not they be mistaken in our differences In truth wee have the more reason so to thinke considering they bring us no proofe for their doings herein saving bare authoritie And here by the way I thinke good to observe a little of Mr. Pagets talke in pag. 25. having set downe a great part of the Acts and sentences which the Classicall Assembly made against Mr. Hooker also what the Deputies of the Synod did in like manner judge of the thing Hee immediately begins to hold up his head and to looke so big upon us as if there were no remedie but wee must needs runne away and veeld him the cause Had these complaynants saith hee bene wise and considerate persons they would rather have sought to bury the memorie of these things then by their importunate complaints compell me in my owne defence to write these things which otherwise I should not have done But good Sir wherein lyeth the weight of this terrible matter what is it
If a father should withhold from his children seasonable and holesome food were it not a sufficient cause of weeping and mourning For our parts wee cannot judge otherwise of his caraige towards us howsoever hee blesseth himself in it The 11 and last injury is to all that take pleasure in these offences hee being a meanes to harden them in sinne Answ This is onely a begging againe of the question and therefore it is answered before For conclusion then here I may in his owne words say Pag. 32. Such reproaches are quicklie broched but the guilt of them is not so quicklie and easilie taken away Besides these I find many other untruths and reproaches laid upon me in his Booke unto all which I shall give answer in time But as for the writer of them I will say no more but that which the Reader shall find by experience Pro. 25.28 That as abattered city without walles so is hee that cannot rule his affections for his eger desire to fasten upon us hee cared not what hath left his writings naked without all reasonable and honest defence SECTION IV. IN this Section my purpose is to examen Mr. Pagets answers unto certaine Scriptures alleaged by us and Mr. Davenport in our writings First to proove that Christ hath given full power unto every particular Congregation to chuse freelie their owne Ministers wee mentioned Act. 6.3 and 14.23 Mr. Paget to refute us deviseth 8 Answers Pag. 18.19.20.21.22 amongst which there is not one that answereth to the thing at all nor serves his turne in the least for which hee bringeth it It is not necessary that I should here write downe all his words I will therefore onely take the substance of them which is thus 1. Wee accuse other Ministers besides himself 2. The order against which wee complaine hath bene formerlie observed in our Church 3. Wee are partiall because wee disliked not the thing sooner 4. Hee tells us what order the Synods have devised about the calling of Ministers 5. Wee are taught a thing never doubted of that the Elders ought to goe before the people in all the publick actions of the Church 6. If this be not so great absurditie will follow 7. If wee were apart well examined hee assures himself that few of us would be found to agree with one another touching the due order of elections 8. It is an heinous crime no lesse then sacriledge to deprive the Church of her lawfull power But is this to answer or rather in truth to play the Trifler For what are these 8 Replies but so many shifts and windings even miserable starting holes and scope doores for him to fly out at doth hee not here turne his backe upon the case as not willing to stand to it I wish hee would once againe read our Scriptures and his answer to them and to perswade him hereto I will presume though I looke to be requited with shrewd words for my labour to propose it to his view in this manner If the complaint made by William Best and the Subscribers with him be against Mr. Paget others If the order against which they complaine be ancient If they haue done ill in not blaming the thing till now If the Synods haue prescribed and order of calling Ministers If the Elders ought to goe before the Church in all publike actions If hurt will follow otherwise If the Complaynants cannot agree among themselves touching the due order of elections In short if it be a great sinne to deprive the Church of her due power Then doe not these Scriptures Act. 6.3 and 14.23 proove that Christ hath given full power to his Church to chuse freely their owne Ministers But the first is true Therefore the second Mr. Paget needs not to take it amisse that I have syllogistically framed this argument for him For beleeve it unlesse it goe this way a man may say of his reasoning here as of them in the Proverbe Hee asked for hookes and they say they have no mattocks Notwithstanding I doe not impute this to his insufficiency but to the badnes of his case Hee perceiving in likelyhood that these Scriptures made for us and against him thought of a course how to put them by and save his owne credit too and that was by holding his Reader in a long talke For will not many thinke when they shall read 7 or 8 scoore lines writen to confute 3 or 4. But the thing is soundly done 2. For the matter in pag. 20. I would willingly know why he hath writen a whole side to proove that the Gouvernours of the Church ought to goe before c. hath this thing ever bene in question Knoweth hee not that our difference is not about our owne Eldership But whither Officers of other Churches have ought to doe as by power with the administrations of our Congregation This indeed wee deny but nothing els Why therefore doth hee spend time in unncecessary talke If his heart be upright and hee thinke his case good let him speake out plainely and directly in it VVee affirme that the election and ordination of all Ecclesiasticall Officers ought necessarily to be made by the free chose of the Congregation wherein they are to administer and none else have a calling to meddle therewith For this wee bring the word of God Act. 6.3 and 14.23 Not wrested to serve our Turne but understood in that sence which the learned expound it as Cartwright a Refut Rbem on Act. 14.23 Bates b Pag. 66. Vdal c Demonst discip pag. 24.25 Danaeus d In 1 Tim. c. 5. p. 350. Fenner e Sacr. Theol. l. 7. c. 10. pag. 106. Polanus f Syntag. l. 7. c. 16. p. 543 Piscator g In Act. 6. Observ 2. Beza h Annot. in Act. 14.23 the Authors of the admonition to the Parliament i Lib. 1. p. 3 Church gouvernment k Pag. 40. Necessity of Discipline l Pag. 28. Defence of Ecclesiasticall Discipline m Pag. 40. and many others But Mr. Pagets profession and practise is otherwise Hee sayth * Preface that particular Congregations are not independent but stand under other Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves And to have his Reader to be of the same mind with him hee tels him in pag. 19. and 66. that the Synods in these Countries have agreed to have it so If hee had told us and prooved it that Christ or his Apostles had so commaunded wee would haue embraced it forthwith but not the sooner because men have done it Our reasons are these 1. It doth not belong unto Synods as the Learned * Beza de Eccles c. 5. p. 125. Piscat Thes Theolog. loc 23. p. 372. Iusti. Mart. n Dial. cum i Tripho affirme to make new Articles of Religion nor to bring any thing into Gods house which hee hath not commaunded in his word Ministers sayth one ‡ D. Whita cont 4. quoe
then to apply Act. 20.28 to the matter in hand whereas Paul appointeth the Ephesian Elders unto the care and charge onely of their owne particular Congregation and no further it followeth necessarily this being writen for our imitation that every Minister under the Gospell is to containe himself altogether within the bounds and circuit of his owne Church and not to exercise any act of his ministerie otherwhere For to doe it is meerely intrusion and a taking of to much upon him 1. Cor. 7.24 Therefore Let every man wherein hee is called therein abide with God Els others will be injured good order broken scandalls raysed and the doer severely punished for his irregular walking Observe againe how Mr. Paget makes use of the Papists argument for thus writeth Scultingius The Calvinists sayth hee object that the authority of Bishops and Archbishops is not from the Apostles Hierarch l. 10. p. 79. because Act. 15. the controversie there was not confirmed by them but by the whole Church Now marke how prittily hee answereth to it This will not follow for the authority of Bishops Archbishops might be exercised at other times in the Apostles dayes although then it were not Thus hee drawes out Antichrist sword against us onely hee puts a new scabbard upon it His third answer is that Pastours and Teachers are bound to exercise some acts of their ministery towards those who are no members of their Church And why so Because they ought to invite and call others even those that are without Prov. 9.3.4.5 Mat. 28.19.20 Answ 1. I would willingly know of him whither his office be so with him and alwayes about him that hee cannot performe some good actions but they must needs be actions of his Ministery I and others are otherwise minded our reason is because wee are told that as a man and wife a father and child so a Pastour and a Flock are relatives Now in my understanding as I am a father I exercise no proper acts of a father but towards my owne children what good soever I doe to others it cannot properly be said to be the act of a father but rather of a freind a neighbour a Christian c. Now let him make further application of it 2. For his two Scriptures 1. Mat. 28.19.20 is very unskilfully quoted for howsoever the Apostles exercised some Acts of their ministery towards men without yet this prooves not that ordinary Ministers may doe so too but onely a thing so conceited of him The other place is answered before 4. Hee saith that a Pastour may administer the Sacraments both of Baptisme and the Lords Supper in neighbour Churches and this hee sayth hee hath prooved against Mr. Ainsworth in Arr. pag. 17.18 and againe from pag. 109. to 114. Answ 1. As Parents love their owne children because they begat them how ill-favored and black soever they are So Mr. Paget in this place applaudeth his old writings because they are the inventions of his owne head I have 3 or 4 times read the places over and I doe assure thee Reader I find not any thing there prooved of which hee here so vainely boasteth For either hee takes that granted which hee is not able to proove to wit that the Elders Deacons and widowes of one Church may administer in another by vertue of office or els like the unwise mans building his whole discours is without foundation Hee tels us that the Eldership of the separated companie of Leiden did help Mr. Ainsworth in his Controversie with Mr. Iohnson VVhat then must it follow that they exercised some acts of their Ministery in another Congregation For sooth so hee concludeth but how truely I will here manifest in this argument If the Magistrates of Amsterdam performe sometime a worke of mercy to the people at Harlem then they exercise there some acts of their Magistracy but the first is true Therefore the second If Mr. Paget will compare his manner of reasoning with this hee shall see that blood is not more like to blood then these two one the other But I gesse what causeth him to erre herein Hee thinketh that Officers of a Church cannot be helpfull in some causes unto other people but they exercise acts of their Ministery But the thing is not so for whatsoever they doe in such cases they doe it not as Officers but as Christians neither can they now doe more though Ministers in other Churches then any other Brother may doe being indued with the like gifts One thing here I cannot let passe and that is touching his unsound reasoning in pag. 110. Hee tels Mr. Ainsworth that his similitude from a Husband is against himself The reason hee gives for it is because a Husband notwithstanding his relation and bond unto his owne wife may yet become a protectour and guide of the poore widow that wants a Husband to performe these dueties If Mr. Paget will stand to justify the true proportion of his argument as it must necessarily hold or els it is mere vanity I will hence proove from his writing that adultery is lawfull for thus I reason That which is the peculiar duety of husbands to be performed towards their wives is to give them due benevolence But husbands notwithstanding the relation and bonds unto their owne wives may performe the peculiar dueties of husbands to poore widowes Therefore husbands notwithstanding the relation and bond unto their owne wives may have the use of the bodies of poore widowes If hee doe not grant this hee reasoneth without reason For I hope hee will not deny but a man that is no husband may performe many kind offices to poore widowes yea I thinke hee will confesse that a man unmaried may doe as many good turnes to poore widowes as any husband If so then of a certainty either hee must maintaine whoordome as I sayd before or confesse that which hee writes here is most impertinent and that the comparison holds no further but thus viz. that any man out of office may in other Congregations performe as much duety as those which are not Ministers there I hope his sinne here was of ignorance rather then of wilfullnes and that hee had a devotion to serve God a right though hee tooke not in this the right way wherein hee will be served And thus much is sufficient to confute whatsoever hee hath there said Let us therefore proceed to the next For his 5 answer I can better understand his meaning then make either sence or good English of it To proove that a Pastour is bound to exercise his Ministery in some acts thereof towards those who are no members of his Church hee brings the example of Classes and Synods where many Ministers doe meet together for the administration of Discipline in them and to determine and decide by a joint authority the cases and controversies of sundry Congregations and this hee sayth is to be seene in Act. 15.1.2 Answ Who seeth not that this plea is none
other then a meere begging of the question hee bringeth in the Classes and Synods for his proofe whereas hee should first have prooved that the power which they assume over many Churches is lawfull Before I come to lay downe my particular answers to it I shall entreat him in his next Booke to resolve me these few Questions 1. VVhither the Assembly mentioned in Act. 15. were a Synod or Classis 2. How it can be manifested from that place that both are divine institutions as here is affirmed 3. How hee can naturally from thence rayse this doctrine viz. excommunications and elections of Ministers are actions belonging unto Classes and Synods 4. VVhither it be Iure Divino that Ecclesiasticall Officers of many Churches are necessarily bound to determine by joint authority the cases of many particular Congregations or whither it be a thing arbitrary and left unto every mans liberty 5. Whither all such cases and controversies as are decided by many Ministers combined into Classes and Synods must so stand as that particular Congregations may not if they thinke fit reject the same and practise otherwise then hath bene there determined by joint authority I haue the more hope that Mr. Paget will give a direct answer to these questions Pag. 39. Seeing a good conscience hee sayth suffers not a man to be neutrall nor to suspend his judgement when it is desireously desired but forceth him to beare witnesse unto the truth c. To the point now I doe deny that this place Act. 15. prooveth any such thing for which it is alledged For 1. here was no combination of many Ministers of divers Churches but onely a few messengers sent from Antiochia unto the Congregation at Ierusalem about a controversy there specifyed Hence it is affirmed by many learned men * D. Bridg. pag. 1224. that as this was an assembly of one onely particular Church so it binds * D. Whita De conc Q 2 p. 6. and p. 67. onely but in a speciall or particular meeting 2. As Mr. Cartwright ‡ Refut Rhemist on the place saith Paul and Barnabas went not up to Ierusalem to submit their judgement to the judgement of the Apostles for that had diminished the authoritie of their doctrine then which there was no greater in the Word they being both infallablie directed by the Holy Ghost Onely they went up to conferre with them and for countenance of the truth in respect of men and for the stopping of the mouthes of such deceivers as pretended they were sent * Vers 24. by the Apostles In a word that no suspition might remaine in the minds of the people as if Paul in doctrine differed from the rest 3. If Ierusalem lay north-ward 200 miles from Antioch as I read * Itiner Novi Testo fol. 96. it did Surely then hee hath small reason to bring this Scripture as the ground and foundation of the Classicall Assembly yea and to tell us ‡ Pag. 88. that it is a remarkable place of Scripture to warrant the exercise of that power which wee deny And a little after This one allegation is sufficient to evince the falshood of their assertion But before you make such hasty conclusions haue a little patience to heare us to speake for our selves I pray how can you proove that the officers of these two Churches being two hundred miles asunder were combined and mett ordinarily together as the Classes doe to determine the cases of many Churches Or how doe you proove that there was any Officer at all of Antioch in Ierusalem at this time Briefly or how doe you proove that the Brethren sent from Antioch exercised authority in the Church at Ierusalem yet all this you must make good otherwise you are guilty of abusing and perverting the Scripture in affirming that the power which the Classis exerciseth was practised at Antioch and Ierusalem and by Apostolicall direction This you have spoken but it is untrue Notwithstanding had you rested in Stev Ofw. testimony your fault had bene small in comparison what it is now through your great presumtion to take God for your witnes Ier. 23.31 in a thing which hee never spake Behold saith the Lord I am against the Prophets that use their tongues and say Hee saith it 4. It is certaine Vers 12.22 De Conc. Q 8. c. 3. Qu. 3. c. 3. p. 96.97 that at Ierusalem not onely the Apostles and Elders mett together but as Luke expresseth it the Church also being interested in the thing And therefore gave sentence with the rest to the decree then made Observe what D. Whitaker replyes unto Bellarmine denying the multitude to be called It was alwayes sayth hee the practise of the Apostles in common cases to call the whole Church together and no doubt but they did so here Now there was no need to have it mentioned seeing it had bene their constant custome formerlie so to doe Mr. Parker ‡ Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 12. pag. 108.126.334 affirmes the same So the Authours of the Cent. * Cent. 1. l. 2 c. 9. p. 547.548 And it seemes in Cyprians ‡ Lib. 4. Epist. 16. time the Church was not deprived of her right herein howsoever the Papists * Bellarm. de Conc Ecc. l. 1. c. 16. pag. 39. in those dayes teach otherwise and Mr. Paget and others doe otherwise practise 5. Howsoever the Church at Antioch sent some Brethren with Paul and Barnabas unto the Church at Ierusalem notwithstanding and let it be well observed they did not this as being a dependent body and standing under another Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves For as Mr. Parker * Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 20. p. 301. 314. excellently prooves it the Church at Antioch at this time had absolute power in for her self to haue ended the controversy and might haue done it I say in respect of authority without acquainting therewith any other Congregation at all To the same purpose another sayth * D. Whita Conc. Qu. 1. c. 1. The Church of Antioch sent not to Ierusalem as being bound in duety thereto But in regard it was the chief place of Religion therefore they made choose freelie of that Congregation as knowing them to be best able to resolve the controversie True it is the Hierarchie * D. Whit. g. T. C. 3. deny this of whose opinion Mr. Paget must either be or els the Classes as they now rule must fall to the ground for any relief that this Scripture Act. 15. will yeeld unto them 6. When the Hierarchie alledge Act. 15. to proove their Diocesan and Provinciall Synods lawfull marke how they are answered by the Reformists The particular acts of the Apostles in cases alike Park Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 20. p. 315. 316. must alike be observed If this reason be effectuall as indeed it is against them then it is no lesse effectuall against the Classes Now I haue in part
already shewed how quite contrary their doings are unto the example in Act. 15. unto which this further may be added that the matter caried from Antioch to Ierusalem was agreed upon by the whole Church Pag. 338. and sent thither by their mutuall desire and consent And hence our Divines teach that the power of bringing things from one Congregation to another belongeth not to any one officer but to the whole Church If this be true by what word of God then doth Mr. Paget by his ‡ Thus hee is accused by our Elders in the records of our Church Oct. 6. 1631. owne authoritie and without the consent of the Consistory or any one of them cary matters to the Classis and there hee and they together undoe all that which the Elders with the Churches consent had before jointly concluded In pag. 82. after many bitter reproaches hee asketh Where is the warrant of Will Be. and the rest how proove they that I destroy the power of the Church Wee are not to seeke of good proofe for that which wee have spoken for seeing hee most unlawfully carieth our busnesses away to be determined by the Officers of other Churches in this respect hee goeth about to spoyle us utterly A little after hee demaundeth What is to be done if the Elders be in errour whither the matter should be brought to the body of the Congregation VVhy not came the word onely from the Classicall Assembly are they the people Iob 12.2 and must wisedome die with them are the Brethren all Simplicians all novices is there not a wise man among them to judge of cases Indeed it is the manner of those which inclose in their owne hands the common rights of Churches so to upbraid them and in scorne to taxe them with lightnes rudnes pride contention c. But the Spirit of God giveth a better testimony of them * Act. 24. to 42. Phil. 16.7 1 Th. 3.5.6 1 Pet. 1.7 and counteth them meet ‡ Lev. 8.23 Deut. 1.13 Act. 11.12 1 The. 5.21 1 Ioh. 3.1 both to heare and determine of matters But this sayth hee the Brownists doe VVould hee have his Readers thinke that none but they have ever done it If his intent be so then I must tell him that hee goeth about to deceive them for as I shall shew in another place this was the constāt practise of the primitive Churches viz. to have matters debated and discussed openly before the whole multitude of the Church And that hee may have something in the meane time to looke upon Hee may if hee please looke on a Booke intituled A discours of the troubles in the English Church at Franck ford where hee shall find among other Articles agreed upon by the whole Congregation these Art 62. If all the Ministers and Seniors which have authority to heare and determine c. be suspected or found parties If any appeale be made from them that then such appeale be made to the body * Marke this Mr. Paget of the Congregation the Ministers Seniors and parties accepted and that the body of the Congregation may appoine so many of the Congregation to heare and determine the said matter or matters as it shall seeme good to the Congregation Againe Art 67. If any controversy be upon the doubtfull meaning of any word or words in the Discipline that first it be referred to the Ministers or Seniors And if they cannot agree thereupon then the thing be brought and referred to the whole Congregation What sayth Mr. Paget to this I hope hee will not say they were Brownists Notwithstanding it was their practise to have matters brought unto the body of the Congregation howsoever hee speakes contemptuously of it 7. The thing then and there concluded was divine Scripture imposed upon all other Churches of the Gentiles although they had no delegates there v. 22.28 ch 16.4 8. It is observeable how Mr. Paget stumbleth at the same stone and misapplyeth the very same place of Scripture Act. 15. as they Papists * Rhemist on the place Ioh Barn in Act. 15. v. 3. Casp Vlenberg 16. caus c. 16. p. 527. have done before For thus they write Paul and Barnabas condescended to referre the whole controversie and the determination thereof to the Apostles and Ancients at Ierusalem that is to say to commit the matter to be tryed by the Heads and Bishops and their determination in Councill And indeed such application of it better serves the turne of Iesuits and Preists that seeke to set up the Popes supremacie and a Tyrannicall Hierarchie then those that desire to stand for the Rights and Previledges which Christ hath given unto his Church When I begun to read his 6 Answer I thought to have found some great matter in it because hee promised to come neerer unto the place Act. 20.28 but having well perused it my exspectation was frustrated for hee is so farre here from coming neerer the point that in my understanding hee runns quite from it All that hee saith is to this effect Men doe attend to their flock when they labour that the same may be increased Answ 1. It is true But how must this enlargement be made surely not by opening the doore of the fould to take in Lyons wolves foxes c. but such onely as by their fruites appeare outwardly at least to be the sheepe ‡ Esa 35.8 Zach 14.21 Rev. 21.27 Ioel 3.17 of Christ whereas therefore Mr. Pager bringes into the Church the children of a stranger * Ezech. 44.7 so I am told are the words in the text my meaning is refuseth not to baptise bastards the seed of the adulterer and the whoore when they are brought unto him Hee needs not glory in his number for it is not the increase of God * Col. 2.19 Ezech. 16.26 but as the Prophet sayth of whoordomes against him And I wish hee would well consider when Christ shall appeare in the brightnes of his glory and shall sit as a just Iudge at his second coming to aske a strict account of all his actions what hee will say then for this thing seeing hee is not able to alledge one precept or example for it in the whole Scripture 2. Seeing hee increaseth his flocke by baptising such infants whose parents are without How commeth it to passe that hee takes not more care afterwards of them some say * Chrisoft Tom. 1. p. 324. that children by Baptisme are made members of the visible Church and of this opinion Mr. Paget by his writing * Orels I know not for what end hee writes it here seemes to be if so me thinkes then it is hard dealing in a sheepheard to take sheep one day into his fould and presently after to cast them off take no further charge of them neither acknowledge them more for his then those which never were of his flock at all For that which is in his 7 Answer It is onely a peece of false
nothing but visible Christianity but to the other as there must be visible Christianity so likewise a fore-going joyning of faithfull people together in a spirituall outward society or body politike And unlesse this thing be strictly observed there will follow many absurdities and great confusion This may be further illustrated by a similitude taken from a Corporation Ephes 2. to which the Church of God is sometimes compared Wee know that many who are no members thereof are men of good lives peaceable quiet profitable worthy and fit enough to be of the company Notwithstanding they pertake not in the priviledges of the freedome untill themselves by due order are become freemen ARGVMENT II. To use those wayes and inventions in worshipping God which are not commaunded of God in his word is unlawfull But God hath not commaunded in his word that any Pastour or Teacher should baptize such infants whose Parents are without Therefore it is unlawfull to doe it The first part of this reason is certain by the whole course of the Scriptures Psal 119.113 Deut. 12.8 1. Sam. 15.22.23 Hos 6.6 Lev. 10.1.2 Mich. 7.18 Ier. 5.31 2. Chr. 26.17.18.19.21 Num. 3.4 Mar. 7.8.9 Col 2.8.9 Mat. 15.2 to 12. Besides this is the constant sentence of all the ancient Fathers as they are termed our later best Divines to wit that nothing is to be received or approoved in Religion which cannot be prooved confirmed by the word of God And therefore all Traditions administrations good intents and devises of men without approbation this way as vaine hurtfull and superstitious things are to be rejected Thus writeth Tertullian a Lib. 4. con Mar. Origen b Hom. 3. in Ler. Cyprian c L. 2. Ep. 3. Basil d Moral Sum. c. 14. Augustine e Epist 59. ad Paulin. Chrisostom f Hom. 39. in Act. Hillarie g In Mat. cap. 12. Eusaebeus h Li. 5. c. 10. Theophilact i In 1. Cor. cap. 7. Luther k L. de Bab. capt Erasmus l Annot. in Mat. 11. Zanchy m In praec 4 Simler n De duab nat Christ. p. 42. D. Whitaker o Cont. 4. Qu. 5. Mr. Brinsley p True watch p. 28. and others The second part of this reason is as cleare as the Sun at noonday and cannot with any modest face be denyed For wee doe not read any where throughout all Gods booke that there was ever any such thing imposed on the Churches of the Apostolicke Constitution or that it was at any time practised in them ARGVMENT III. If Baptisme in the new Testament succeedeth in the roome of Circumcision then ought no infants to be baptized but such whose Parents are one at least members of the visible Church But the first is true Therefore the second The Major is without exception * Col 2.11 granted of all both Papists ‡ Ferus in Mat. 28. v. 19. Protestants * Aret. Com. in Col. 2.11 Pet. Mart. Loc. Com. Class 2. c. 6. p. 400. D. Willet com Rom. 6. Cont. 6. pag. 303. See before pag. 53. The Minor is prooved by proportion or paritie thus As the Iewes in old time could not lawfully circumcise any one except hee were a member visibly of their Church so now under the Gospell Baptisme administred in the Churches of Christ is to be administred onely unto the members thereof ARGVMENT IV. That which God hath set a part to be a speciall signe of difference to distinguish the children of the Church from them without ought to be given unto them onely unto none else But God hath set Baptisme apart for such an end Therefore c. The Proposition is without all controversy The assumption is evident by these Scriptures gen 17.7.8 with Col. 2.11.12 Rom. 9.4 Act. 2.38.39 and 16.15.33 Mat. 28.19 Moreover this is acknowledged for a sound truth by many writers viz. Polanus a Synta li. 6. c. 51. D. Ames b De consc l. 4. c. 27. pag. 232. Guilliandus c Comm. in Rom. 4. v. 4. Mr. Bifeild d Col. 2. v. 12. p. 57. the Doway Translaters e Annot. on Gen. 17. Exod. 15. and others And in speciall excellently Paraeus Baptisme sayth hee * Comm. in 1. Cor. 7. 14. is a worthy priviledge of the Church and the children thereof Whereby they are decerned from the children of unbeleevers because they are reputed from the wombe in the holis Covenant with their Parents and therefore is Baptisme the signe of the Covenant given them ARGVMENT V. What act soever God promiseth not to blesse that may not be done But hee promiseth not to blesse the promiscuous Baptizing in question Therefore it may not be done The second part is onely controversall which I manifest thus If there be no precept nor example for it in holy records then there is no promise of blessing made to it But the first is true Therefore the second The premises of both parts are so evident as that to use another mans ‡ Mr. Brad. 12. Arg. words hee hath no blood of shame running in his veines that will deny them Vnto the former reasons these further may be added 1. Though I beleeve as Augustine a Epist. 28. ad Ierem. Cyprian b Epist. ad Hid. Cirill c Comment in Lev. c. 8. Origine d Comm. on Rom. Nazianzene e In Orat. in S. Lava Ambrose f L. 2. de Abrah c. 11 and many others of the Fathers affirme that the Church hath received the Baptisme of infants from the Apostles notwithstand this kind in question from the beginning was not so but an invention lately taken up Some say Boniface IV. in the yeare 606. brought it on foot Others thinke it is not so ancient 2. Whereunto tends it but to induce the ignorant to conceive with the Papists an absolute necessity of Baptisme a Rhem. on Rom. 6.5.14 that the worke done pleaseth God b Id. Act. 22.5.1 puts away originall sinne c Aqui. 2. Sen. dist 3. makes the infant a Christian and a member d bellar de Eccl. mil. l. 3. c. 3. p. 139. of the Church justifyeth him e Rhem. in Rom. 6. Sect. 1. Pererius in Rom. 6. Disp 2. annot 9. and that if hee dy without it hee cannot be saved f Duraeus lib. 8. de Paradox 3. This custome hindereth many Parents from embracing the way and order of the Gospell and causeth them as Mr. Davenport * Iust. Compl. pag. 6. truely sayd to live and die Libertines 4. By this meanes Gods name is taken in vaine * Fenner princip Relig. p. 96. and 106. 5. and the holy Sacrament greatly abused Mal. 1.7.12 Heb. 10.29 6. The. Church of God defiled Hag. 2.14.15 Ezech. 44.7 * Necs disc p. 95. Plain Declarat of Eccl. Discip p. 172. 7. The Minister a breaker of his Covenant Mal. 2.8 Lastly Divine wrath hence justly may
be feared I say againe those that offend this way may justly feare Gods punishment because hee doth not manifest more displeasure against any sinne then the prophanation of his ordinances nor threatneth to inflict soorer punishments upon any then offenders herein a Levit. 10.2.4 Chron. 13.10 And this is the judgment of sundry of our best Divines viz. Iunius b Anal. expl Levit. c. 10 p. 27. Brentius c Comment in Am. c. 4. v. 4.6 Piscator d Observ 3. in Levit. 10. Paraeus e In Am. 2.12 Cartwright f Catech. pag. 102. and others SECTION VI. HOwsoever I could be well contended in these our differences to deale with Mr. Paget by the Scriptures alone as the booke of all truth knowing as Augustine * De Doct. Christ l. 2. c. 9. sayth that all things concerning faith and manners are contained in them Notwithstanding in regard hee * Pag. 15. vainely boasteth to be caried away with the streame of the Learned who concurre in judgement with him c. I haue thought good to make inquirie about the opinions of men in this matter betwixt us as being loth hee should oppresse the truth and make all men afraid of it by making them beleeve that is desolate and forsaken of all freinds Beginning therefore with our writers I judge it meet and convenient to alleadge in the foremost place the mature sentence of Maister Cartwright In his Reply to D. Whitgift * Pag. 172. l. 1. hee writes thus I doe see that Maister Doctor doth make of the Holy Sacrament of Baptisme which is an entry into the house of God and whereby the familie of God must onely ‡ Note that enter a common passage whereby hee will have cleane and uncleane Holy and prophane as well those that are without the Covenant as those that are within to passe by and so maketh the Church no Houshold but an Inne to receive whosoever commeth * Iust so doth Mr. Paget I will answer therefore all most in as many words as the questions be asked If one of the Parents be neither drunkard nor adulterer the child is holie by vertue of the Covenant for one of the Parents sake If they be both and yet not obstinate in their sinne whereby the Church hath not proceeded to excommunication themselves yet being of the Church * Note their child cannot nor ought not to be refused Againe a few lines after speaking of Papists and other ungodly men Hee affirmeth absolutely that their children ought not to be baptised In the next place wee will consider the Authour of a certaine Booke Pag. 111.112 entituled The Covenant betweene God and man hee there maintaineth this point which wee here professe Baptisme sayth hee is to be administred to them onely that are in the Covenant and that the Reader might understand whom hee meanes to be in the Covenant Hee addeth immediatelie They are such as professe the faith joyne themselves together in a fellowship craue to have their names enrouled and registred in the Church and so partake of the manifould graces of God which are distributed therein To these wee will adde Maister Viret * Ground Reli. p. 230. a rare light of the Gospell and partner with Mr. Farell in planting the Church at Geneva before Calvin came there None sayth hee are to be baptised but the children of the faithfull and beleevers all except these are to be instructed in the doctrine before they be admitted thereunto Piscator likewise is as plaine as can be They onely sayth hee are to be baptised which belong to the Church On Mat. ch 28. Obse in v. 19. For as in old time they circumcised the children of the Iewes because they belonged to the Church and covenant so now c. Mr. Fenner a Doct. of the Sacra sayth the very same so Paraeus b In Mat. 3.5 Erastus c De excom p. 18.24 Melancton d Loc. Com. pag. 383. Keckerman e System Theol. l. 3. p. 453. speaking of the lawfullnes of the baptising of infants gives this as the reason of it viz. because they are members of the Church The like saying wee find in a Booke named a generall confession of Christian Churches Because God receiveth into his Church the children with the fathers Wee say by the authoritie of Christ infants begotten of faithfull Parents ought to be baptized Also Beza * In 1. Cor. 7.14 sayth Such as doe permit all children to be baptized doe a thing unheard off in the primitive Church Neither may Tertullians testimony be omitted speaking as Iunius interprets him of such children as were strangers from the Covenant of God Let them come when they are growne to yeares Let them come when they have learned and are taught wherefore they come Let them then be made Christians when they can know Christ Moreover this is the unanimous confession of all the Reformed Churches to wit that Baptisme appertaineth to such infants as are in the Church and borne of beleevers And for this reason they say they administer unto them the seale of the Covenant viz. because with their Parents they are received into the Church Thus write the Churches of Saxonie a Harm Conf. Art 18. Bohemia b Chapt. 12. France c Art 35. Scotland d Harm Conf. p. 24. Helvetia e Art 20.21 and Belgcik f Art 34. Object 1. But this thing hath been in these Countries a long time practised and therefore it is not meet that so ancient a custome should be laid downe Answ 1. When the truth is knowne sayth Augustine ‡ L. 2. Ep. ad Gaudent let custome give place unto it For * Ambr. l. 4. Virg. wee must not allwayes imitate whatsoever our Elders have allowed but try by the Scriptures whither the things are good which they allowed And thus doe these Churches * A generall Confess of Christ. Church in their writings professe to the world that they judge it of small force in controversie of Religion to be urged with the bare sentenoes of Fathers or with the Decrees of Councills much lesse with received custome or with continuance of time For wee admit they say no other judge in matter of faith then God himself pronounced in his Word 2. By this custome they give the Anabaptists great advantage and nihilate the best argument which our Divines use against them for the lawfullnes of baptising of infants And that this is so let it be observed that the Reason which they in this point doe stick most too is this namely that children of Christians by the same warrant * Calv. in Mat. 18. v. 10. Gerhard Harm Euang c. 12. pag. 352. Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 4. p. 355. D. Willet on Rom. 6. p. 303. Cartwr Christ Rel. c. 37. p. 223. are now to be baptized that the infants under the Law were circumcised Now I haue prooved before
that no infant under the Law was to be circumcised except hee were a member of that visible Church seeing therefore they leave this patterne it must follow as I sayd that they make the argument voyd and of no effect and so refute their owne writings and destroy againe the things which they haue builded 3. Seeing by comparing their practise with their profession they are not so true to their owne grounds as they ought this custome becomes the greater blot and dishonour unto them That they are not true to their grounds I have manifested before To which this further may be added In a Synod held at Dort Anno 1578. it was there agreed that all Parents before they brought their children to be baptized should got unto the Ministers or Elders that so they might give notice unto the Church whose child it was that should be baptized Now for what end should the Parents be enjoyned to acquaint the Church Officers with this thing unlesse their meaning was that none but members children should be baptised If they had intended that things should be as they are now baptise all brought to the Congregation then truely with reverence be it spoken they made a very unnecessary article for what need is there of telling the Church whose children they are if all brought there must be baptised Lastly let it be considered whither the unsound doctrine of the Papists get not countenance by this custome who teach * Aegid Topiar in Epist. Euang. p. 293. that Gods commaundements must sometime give place unto mens traditions Object 2. Compassion towards infants mooveth many Ministers to baptise them Answ Wee may not doe any thing against the expresse will of God under a pretence to shew mercy unto others ‡ 1. King 20.42 that pitty which the godly are to manifest must be rightly-bowelled * 1. Pet. 3.8 that is commaunded of God both for the matter and manner of it It is well knowne that Origen ‡ August de Civit. Dei lib. 21. c. 17 through to much compassion of the wicked thought that the Divels themselves should be saved at lenght unlesse men therefore are carefull to set bounds unto their affections their affections will lead them bejond their bounds To conclude this point my hearts desire is that every godly Minister would be pleased duely to regard these things It was no dishonour unto Iob that hee tooke the councill of his hand-maid Neither did it darken Apollos reputation that hee learned some thing of Aquila and Priscilla A wise Generall of a feild dispiseth not the advise of the meanest souldier in matters of greatest waight Wee are told of a Papist * Picus Mirand an Papa sit supra Concil that wee ought to beleeve a simple plaine Husband man c. if hee speake the truth For my part I should not presume to commend what I haue said to their judicious consideration unlesse I had by diligent inquiry first seene the same to be a truth and so setled my conscience in the certainty of it SECTION VII TO let his scoffes alone which hee merrily puts forth in pag. 71. 72. I will here give him a direct answer unto the thing which hee there demaundeth that is What that due power is by which wee would have the Church to be gouverned and unto which wee would willingly be subjected It is that Polity-Ecclesiasticall which the Lord Iesus the King of his Church hath ordained in the New Testament and given unto all the Churches of his Saints whereby they are to chuse and call into office such as are fit and exercise all other spirituall ordinances in among themselves immediately from him This gouvernment wee hold to be the perfection of all as comprehending in it whatsoever is excellent in all other bodies politicall As man being the perfection of all creatures comprehends in his nature what is excellent in them all Having being with the elements life with the plants sence with beasts and with the Angells reason Those which haue written about the Politike gouvernment of common-wealths as Aristotle a L. 5. Pol. c. 1. l. 3. c. 11. Herbertus b L. 1. Hist Pol. Tolosanus c Lib. 4. c. 5. Bodin d L. 2. c. 7. l. 6. c. 74. Iunius e Par. 1. Qu. Pol. Qu. 4. Danaeus f L. 4. Pol. c. 5. Richterus g Dict. axim 63. Althusius h C. 32. Pol. Contarinus i Hist. Venet. others doe mention three kindes as lawfull and good Monarchicall Aristocraticall and Democraticall Now all these three formes as the Learned ‡ D. Whita cont 4. Q. 1 pag. 14. Refut D. Down Serm. l. 2. par 2. pag. 106. Pet. Mart. loc com Clas 4. c. 5. pag. 783. Keckerm System S.S. Theol. lib. 3. p. 400. judiciously observe haue their places in the Church of Christ In respect of him the head it is a Monarchy in respect of the Eldership an Aristocracy in respect of the body a popular state Further I doe affirme that this Ecclesiasticall gouvernment is unchangeable ordinary best and perpetuall common to all true Churches and unto which all estates must be subject as brethren so every officer likewise And good reason too for it is a matter of faith a point of the Gospell yea of the substance of it and necessary to salvation so farre I meane as other of Gods ordinances But not to speake any more of the necessity and excellency of this Church Gouvernment there being in print many learned Treatises of it I will here lay downe my reasons to proove the former Assertion viz. that every particular visible Church hath from Christ absolute intyre power to exercise in and of herself everie ordinance of God and so is an independent body not standing under any other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of it self And this I will doe if God permit ARGVMENT I. If those Churches planted by the Apostolique institution had power fullie in themselves immediately from Christ to practise all his ordinances Then have all Churches the like power now But the first is true Therefore the second The proposition is cleare and certaine by these Scriptures 1. Cor. 5.2.3 Act. 14.23 2. Cor. 16.2 Col. 2.5 2. Thess 3.14 The assumption is acknowledged by sundry of our best Divines That first gouvernment of the Church sayth Mr. Brightman * On Revel chap. 2 p. 65 edit 3. is common to all times and places and that it is not to be permitted to be at the arbitrement of men to follow what way they list but that alwayes in reforming a Church wee must have recourse unto the first beginnings to the which as our onely rule wee must call back whatsoever strayeth from it and that they are not to be turned tuned according to the crookednes and jarring sound of the succeeding Churches Mr. Parker * Polit. Eccl. l. 1. c. 23. pag. 59. l. 3. p. 95. 300. hath in
effect the very same speach so Mr. Cartwright * Repl. to Whitg l. 1. p. 25. 26. and B. Bilson * Perpet Gouvernm pag. 3. Eccl. Polit. l. 4. p. 148. likewise Hooker gives a reason for it namely because the first state of things was best c. and therefore it must needs follow that customes Lawes and Ordinances devâ—sed since are not so good for the Church of Christ but the best way is to cut off later inventions and to reduce things unto the ancient state wherein at the first they were And this agrees with Tertullians * Cont. Mar. l. 4. c. 5. saying of old That is truest which is first that is first which is from the beginning that is from the beginning which is from the Apostles ARGVMENT II. If Christ in Mat. 18.17 where hee saith Tell the Church doth meane a particular Congregation Then hath every particular Congregation an intyre power in and of it self to exercise Ecclesiasticall gouvernment and all other Gods spirituall ordinances But the first is true Therefore the second The proposition is cleare and certain maintained by the most judicious Divines viz. Vrsinus a Explica p. 2. p. 534. Zwinglius b Explan Act. 8. D. Andrewes c Tort. tort pag. 42. Chemnitius d In Mat. 18.17 Aretius e Idem Pelargius f Idem Hunnius g Idem Vatablus h Idem Munster i Idem Beza k De Eccl. l. 1. ca. 13. Erasmus l Paraph. in Mat. 18. D. Whitaker m De Rom. Pont. cont 4. Q 1. p 86 Cartwrith n Confut. Rhem. in Mat. 18. D. Fulke o Idem Parker p Polit. Eccl. l. 3. p. 79. and others The Assumption is prooved thus That Church which Christ intendeth in Mat. 18. hath absolute power in and of it selfe to performe all Gods ordinances but Christ intendeth in Mat. 18. a particular Congregation Therefore everie particular Congregation hath absolute power in and of it self to performe all Gods Ordinances Moreover let it be observed that this Church in Mat. 18. is given as a plat-forme or example unto all Churches to walke by As Moyses was to make the Arke in every respect proportionable unto the patterne which hee saw in the Mount even so c. ARGVMENT III. Whatsoever was commaunded to the 7 Churches to be practised by each of them apart in and for themselves that no Church of God must now omit But Ecclesiasticall gouvernment was commaunded to the 7 Churches to be practised by each of them apart in and for themselves Therefore no Churches of God must omit the practise of Ecclesiasticall gouvernment apart in and for themselves The proposition cannot be doubted off For as Chytraeus a In Rev. c. 1. p. 29. 54. Artopeus b In cap. 1. p. 11. Bullinger c In Rev. 2. Hom. 8. Brightman d In Rev. 1.2 3. ch and others write All Churches from these ought to learne what gouvernment to exercise what doctrines to teach what persons to excommunicate who to receive and to comfort and the like The assumption is prooved clearely in chap. 2. ver 2.14.20 c. Moreover Mr. Perkins * Expos upon ch 2. v. 20. ch 3. v. 7. speaking of those Churches sayth God gave to every of them power and authoritie to preach the Word administer the Sacraments represse evill men decerne false Prophets to exclude all obstinate sinners from all spirituall priviledges among them ARGVMENT IV. If the Church of Corinth had power and authoritie within her self to exercise Ecclesiasticall gouvernment Yea and did it I meane the Ministerie and the rest of the Church there Then ought not particular Congregations now to stand under any other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves But the first is true Therefore the second The first part is unquestionably certain and of this judgement was D. Willet a Cont. 9. Cent. 1. D. Fulke b Answ to the Rhem. 1. Cor. 5.4 Zanehy c In praecep 4. c. 19. p. 688 Bucer d De Regn. Chr. l. 1. c. 9 Piscator e In 1. Cor. 5. Obser 1. D. Andrewes f Tort. tor pag. 42. Pet. Martyr g 1. Cor. 5. Polanus h Synt. Theo. l. 7. c. 19. D. Feild i Of the Church l. 1. c. 5. Paraeus k In 1. Co 5 de Eccom Zwinglius l Epichir de Can. Missae ad Valent comp and others Againe whereas the Papists and Hierarchy doe say much after Mr. Pagets new doctrine that the Church of Corinth had not sole and alone authoritie in it self to exercise Ecclesiasticall gouvernment our writers viz. Mr. Cartwright * Refutat Rhem. 1. Cor. 5.4 Mr. Parker * Pol. Eccl. l. 3. c. 4. p. 1. 7. 18. c. others doe soundly refute them and proove the contrary by many reasons The latter part is prooved before in the Minors of the 1. and 3 arguments ARGVMENT V. Such actions the Church may lawfullie doe wherein no Law of God is broken But there is no Law of God broken when particular Congregations doe in and among themselves exercise all Gods ordinances Therefore they may lawfully doe it The proofe of the proposition doth arise from the definition of sinne which as Augustine a Cont. Fau. l. 22. c. 27. Ambrose b Lib de Paridis c. 8 truely define it is either a deed or word or thought against some Divine Law Lombard c Lib. 2. 35. Aquinas d Th. 12. Qu. 71. and other Schoolemen as they are called agree hereto The assumption is manifested in our first Argument the first part of it ARGVMENT VI. If the Apostle gave commaundement unto the Eldership of Ephesus for the whole administration of all ordinances in that Church Then may the Eldership of every particular Congregation administer among themselves all Gods ordinances But the first is true Therefore the second The Major is prooved two wayes 1. By Scripture Act. 28. vers 17.28 2. By the testimony of the learned Whitaker * Rom. Pont. Cont. 4. Qu. 1. c. 1. p. 12 Cont. 2. Qu. 5. c. 6. pag. 281. 284. The Minor is undeniable For as Mr. Brightman ‡ On the Apoc. ch 12 pag. 505. sayth there was one forme of gouvernment in all Churches namely that that is delivered us in the acts of the Apostles and the rest of their writings There are extant at this present divers Treatises * See Park Pol. Eccl. l. 2 c. 40. p. 324.325 c. Defen of godly Min. agai Bridg. slaund p. 133.134 c. to proove that Christ hath instituted but one onely forme of Church gouvernment common to all Churches ordinary perpetuall and best Thus wee haue prooved the affirmative part of our assertion to wit that every particular Congregation hath power in and for it self immediatelie from Christ to exercise Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment and all other Religious
controversy leaneth upon it I will speake further of it in the next Section There are yet other reasons to proove our Assertion the which I will here lay downe more briefly 1. If every Eldership haue alike and equall power as Hierome a Ep. ad Ena Cyprian b L. de unitâ— Eccles Bucer c De Bâ—gâ— Chr. l. 1. c. 15. and others affirme then may not the Officers of one Congregation seeke by authority to suppresse the acts and decrees concluded in another 2. It is against sence that a Minister should undertake the care of more Churches then one onely who reads in Scriptute of a steward over many families a sheepheard over divers Flockes c. Nature hath ordained sayth Aristotle * Lib. 1. c. 2 one unto one 3. Is it alike thing that the Classicall power should be of Gods approoving and yet hee never mention it in his word This argument the Hierarchy ‡ Iew. Defe Apol. 2. par c. 3. divis 5. use against Popish Offices and the Reformists * D. Laten Syons Plea p. 9. against theirs Now let the discreet Reader judge if it proove not the point in hands as well Here I may not omit Zwinglius * Zwingl Art 8. expl speach speaking of Synods Wee willingly beleeve sayth hee that you are a representative Church for a true Church you are not But I pray you shew us whence you fetch this name Who hath given you this name who hath given you power to make Canons impose things on mens shouldiers grieve their consciences c. And a little after hee sayth Of this representative Church I find nothing in the Holy Scriptures out of mens devises any may faigne what they list wee rest in the Holy Scripture against which thou mayst not attempt any thing if thou be a Christian. 4. Whosoever shall deny our afore-said assertion must of necessity hold two distinct formes of Church gouvernment to be lawfull one where particular Congregations doe in and of themselves exercise all Gods ordinances the other where they stand under another Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves Now to hold this is directly all one as to hold two wayes to heaven distinct and opposite in themselves which is very scandalous in Religion and that which cannot stand with truth 5. Let it be observed that for this reason among others the Learned ‡ D. Whita cont 4. qu. 4 Chamier l. 6. conject 2. say the Pope is Antichrist viz. because hee will haue men to appeale from their owne Churches unto him and to stand unto his sentence and decree And doe not the Classicall Assemblyes and Synods take upon them an authority much like to it in subjecting many Congregations to them requiring appeales to be made to them and that the Iudicatory as Mr. Pagets * In his Letter given into the Consistory phrase is belongeth to them as if their power were above all Churches 6. VVhat more meet and reasonable then that every mans case be there heard and determined where the fault was committed so sayth Cyprian * Cypr. lib. 1 Epist 3. It is not fit that they over whom the Holy Ghost hath made us overseers should goe too and fro Hee speaketh of carying matters away from their owne Church unto others * See pag. 35.36 7. Note the effect if it should be otherwise which is that every particular Congregation must hence necessarily loose her owne proper right in gouvernment and so of a Mistres become a servant in stead of being superiour wilfully vassall and enslave her self which thing is contrary to Gods will revealed in his word * Gal. 5.1 1. Co. 7.23 2. Ti. 1.13 Heb. 4.14 Revel 2.25 8. Seeing the Apostles wheresoever they constituted any Church with doctrine immediately established in it Ecclesiasticall gouvernment ‡ Park Pol. Eccl l. 1 20 for without this as D. Ames * De consc l. 4. c. 24. pag. 214. sayth there could have beene no conbling of the parts and members together It must needs follow that the Primitive Churches were independent bodies and stood not under any other Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves Now how Mr. Paget will be able to proove a change of this gouvernment I doe not yet see especially considering that the Learned as I shewed before * Pag. 72. doe hold that there is but one certaine necessary and perpetuall forme and manner of ordering Churches And this also is the judgement of Calvin a Calv. ad Sad. P. Martyr b In Rom. 3.21 D. Bilson c Perp. Gov. 338. c. yea the Confession of the Churches of France d Harm conf art 29 of the Low Countries e Harm art 30. and Scotland f Treat of the Discipl of that Church in a word to this the Papists g Sander visib Mon. l. 1. c. 6. ascent 9. By the titles given to all particular Congregations it appeares evidently that Ecclesiasticall authority is or at least ought to be in every one of them distinctly wholie intyrely viz. a Kingdome h Mat. 3.2 Family i Eph. 2.19 a Body k 1. Cor. 12.20 a Queene l Psal 45. c. For what more senceles then to say a Kingdome or family standing under another Politicall or Oeconomicall gouvernment out of themselves a body having all parts and members and yet may neither receive in nor put out without anothers leave and consent many such absurdities * See Park Pol. Eccl. 3. p. 23. 321.322 Iun. Eccl. l. 1. c. 4. D. Whitak cont 4. Qu. 1. p. 38. followeth Mr. Pagets lately-devised Tenets 10. The acts of the Apostolique Churches proove directly our assertion For it is without all contradiction that they elected their owne Ministers excommunicated offenders sent messengers and performed all other Church matters among themselves Lastly let it be observed that Mr. Paget in this accordeth with the Papists * Bellar. de Eccl. l. 5. c. 5 and Hierarchy * D. Downa D. Bridges others for they say as hee doth that particular Churches are not independent bodies but stand under another Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves The which thing our writers deny and proove the contrary By this time I suppose the indifferent Reader perceiveth that the Scriptures are every way for us and against Mr. Paget in this controversy betwixt us Now hee should doe well seeing wee dispute about a matter of faith appertaining to life and salvation to rest in them as the onely touching for triall of all truth Notwithstanding considering hee makes so much a doe about the multitude of learned and Godly Ministers being of the same judgement and practise with him Pag. 73. according as Festus knowing Paul to haue appealed unto Caesar did reasonably resolve saying Vnto Caesar shalt thou goe so I am well contented to heare what reverend and judicious Authors doe say herein And if Mr. Paget will stand unto their
Hereticks and wicked persons loosing the penetent the election and ordination of Ministers and the deposition of them againe for just cause Mr. Brightman * On Rev. ch 12. pag. 505. 506. comes Lower downe even unto Constantines time and is of opinion that the primitive puritie of Church Gouvernment was not yet defloured with the dregges of mans invention Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheep fould of the Lord but the Pastours looked every one to the health of his owne Flocke Hence it appeares that for the space of 200 or 300 yeares after Chrlst * See Mr. Iacob necess Reform pag. 57. c. every visible Church had power to exercise Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment and all other Gods spirituall ordinances the meanes of salvation in and for it self immediately from Christ And this is a thing so certainly true as I thinke Mr. Paget himself will not haue the face to deny it What authoritie then to use anothers * B. Bilson agai Semin p. 221. speach had others after the Apostles death to change the Apostolike Gouvernment But seeing they haue done it what must wee doe Thus leave their inventions and returne backe to the Churches of the Apostolique institution and from them take our patterne and platforme to walke by and thus God teacheth a Eze. 20.18 Exod. 23.2 Mat. 15.24 c. us to doe and learned men also viz. Arnobius b Lib. 2. con Gent. Ignatius c Epist. ad Philadil Iulianus d De Bapt. Heret B. Iewel e Defe Apol. 6. pa. c. 16. div 2. pag. 762. D. Rainolds f Confer 195.459 and others But to goe foreward with our witnesses From these let us ascend to the very first worthies who haue brought us a great part of the light of the Gospel in this later age Zwinglius ‡ Hee was no Lutheran and Luther The first sayth thus * Ad Valen. Comp. Excommunication is not in the Bishops gathered together in a Synod but the right and power thereof is in the Congregation And therefore according to Christs commaundement in Mat. 18. Offenders ought to be brought to the Church whereof they are members ‡ Art 31. Explat Epichirisis de Canon Miss and being obstinate by the Church the Pastour pronouncing the sentence are to be cut off Againe concerning calling to the Ministery hee sayth ‡ Ecclesiastes The right of election is in the whole Church Mr. Luther another excellent witnes of Christ affirmes * Tom. 2. pag. 374. that the Church hath the right and power to judge of any doctrine also of calling the Ministers of the Gospell or if they cease to be faithfull to depose them But is not this contrary to Mr. Pagets new opinion yea altogether For though a Congregation should haue just cause to put downe some Officers notwithstanding by his grounds if they appeale unto Ministers of other Churches and they judge them fit to continue in their places then must they be left alone how vile soever they are so that to speake the truth the power which hee alloweth unto particular Congregations is just nothing Chemnitius another famous man and of rare learning among the followers of Luther is herein with us likewise for hee testifyeth that election * Exam. par pag. 226. 227. 228. Harm in Mat. 18.17 excommunication examination of sentences ‡ Exa Con. Trid. part 1. p. 3. c. belong unto the whole Church Againe observe what hee attributeth in another place to the Congregation what to the guides thereof To the first power * Exam. c. 6. to the later the administration of it Melancton * Loc. com tit de reg Christ hath the like distinction I could here mention many others of them which consent with us fully as Sarcerius a In Mat. 18. Brentius b Exeges in Ioh. 12.23 D. Rungius c In 1. Cor. 5.3.4 Hunnius d In Mat. 16. Osiander e Harm in Mat. 18.17 Salneccer f In Act. 6. Pelargus g In Act. 6. 14. D. Mylius h In 1. Cor 5 Hegendorphin i In Act. 14. c. none of these hold as Mr. Paget that particular visible Churches are noun-adjectives cannot stand without Classes and Synods but on the other side they grant them I mean to the Eldership and Brethren right and power to practise in and among themselves all Gods ordinances For those now whom for distinction sake wee name Calvinists these men I take it are the multitude of Godly and learned Ministers which doe as hee sayth agree in judgement and practise with him Now before I come to lay downe their particular allegations touching our point in controversy This I desire may be observed that it cannot be manifested as I am perswaded that there is among them all one Authour which hath in his Commentaries on the Scriptures taught the doctrine maintained by Mr. Paget here against us It is true some of them grant to the Eldership greatest authority others to the body of the Congregation Notwithstanding none haue bene so erronious as to say that the whole Church I meane Officers and Brethren wants authority to performe in and for it self all Church-services Now for the Authours Peter Martyr a Class ch 5. sect 9. in his common places making the Church a Monarchy in respect of Christ an Aristocracy in respect of the Elders addeth also that because there are matters of great weight and importance referred unto the people as excommunication absolution choosing of Ministers and the like it hath also a consideration of a popular gouvernment Of the same judgement was Iunius b Eccl. l. 3. c. 1. The whole Church sayth hee ought to chuse that is the body consisting of the Eldership and people by equall and common voyces This is the right manner of choosing Ministers With them joynes Musculus c Com. Pl. elect Mini. Viret d Groung Relg l. 3. ch 1. Bullinger e Decat 5.4 Danaeus f In Tim. 5.22 Gualter g Hom. in Act. 13.2 13.22 Sybrandus h Respons ad Hug. p. 159 D. Mornaeus i Hist pa. 542. c. Morell k Tom. 4. fol. 534. Tilenus l Respons ad Com. La Vat. Qu. 8. Epist 14 c. all these I say doe directly affirme the same thing viz. that all particular visible Churches haue full power to ordaine and chuse among themselves fit Ministers Neither can it be gathered to my knowledge anywhere in their writing that unto a full and complete calling of Church Officers any more Ecclesiasticall authority and power is required then that which Christ hath set in every Congregation distinctly and apart To the same purpose they write about excommunication and the absolution or the reconciliation of the excommunicate those are actions they say common to the whole Church and not of any private person or persons Bastingius
hold for an infallible maxime that to reforme corruptions and abuses in states a better course cannot be taken then to reduce things to their primitive originall Hereto agrees D. VVhites * Of the Church l. 2. pag. 49. saying The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best 4. If it should be granted that particular Congregations by this kind of gouvernment shall haue peace profit credit and other worldly respects yet this is no sufficient reason to induce them to embrace it For 1. wee must seeke peace by lawfull meanes 2. Outward quietnes is not alwayes necessary for the Church the Truth is like unto Camomill the more you presse it downe the faster it groweth and spreadeth further and smelleth sweeter 3. Religion can subsist without externall peace I say safely in the midst of contentions 4. It is better to want this freedom of which hee speaketh holding fast the truth then in sinne to haue it and perish for it 5. It is a rule among Lawers ‡ Bartol Distinct pag. 2. that publicke profit must not take place against Law this holds firme in all cases of Religion To conclude then in Nazianzens * De Moderat in disceptat Servand words Let no man be wiser then is meet not more just then the Law more bright then the sun streaghter then the rule nor pretend more obedience then God requireth c. This hee speakes of Discipline Another of his reasons is this Pag 72.153 The power for which hee standeth hath bene determined limited and agreed upon in many Nationall Synods And all Reformed Churches use it Answ 1. It is a received opinion among the Learned that Councills may erre yea and often haue as I could shew in many particulars Besides who knowes not that almost all the Fathers as they are called were infected with the errour of Millenaries And almost all the Greeke writers and Latine with the doctrine of free-will merits invocation on the Saints and the like And therefore as one well sayth ‡ Sibrand Lubbert de princ Christ l. 7. c. 10. p. 694. Wee must not conclude a thing to be Apostolicall because the Church observeth it And to the same effect write some Papists * Tho Aqui in quod l. 9. Art ult Abb. Panor de elect c. significat 2. These testimonies are all humaine and therefore it is enought if wee say with our Lord ‡ Mat. 19.8 From the beginning it was not so Or as hee sayd once Woman what have I to doe with thee So in matters of faith what haue wee to doe with men Away with mens writings sayth Augustine let the voyce of God sound unto us Let the Booke of God come amongst us Let us heare what Christ saith and what the truth speaketh For our judgements and expositions without these witnesses have no credit sayth Origen 3. This reason is the same which the Papists use viz. the Decrees a Whitak cont 4. Qu. 5. c. 10. Sarav de Tripl Episc in Prolog Io. Ainsw Large writing 2. of Synods the opinions of the Fathers the custome of men and practise of the Church But marke what answer our Protestant Divines make to it No b D. Rain Confer p. 195.257.459 D. Bilson to the Semina part 4. pag. 360.300.301.299 D. More Apol. p. 2. c. 14. Casaub Epi. ad Per. Car. p. 32.33 humaine proofe is sure in Divinity truth is not to be tried by consent of Fathers Never shall they perswade us any thing in matter of Religion which they cannot proove by Moyses and the Prophets Make us good proofes out of Scriptures Otherwise if ye cite not onely 9 but 9 skore Fathers wee regard it not Now this answer will serve me as well seeing Mr. Paget and they doe use one and the same reasoning Another objection which hee hath against us is Because wee haue not framed our accusation and protestation against him before this present seeing the practise hath continued among us many yeares c. Answ Formy part I never knew that our Congregation was in such deepe bondage untill Mr. Hookers troubles began but thought verely that our owne Eldership with the Brethren jointly together had full power among themselves to practise every ordinance of God And the thing specially which induced me so to thinke was his owne words * Arâ—ow against sep pag. 116. writen to Mr. Ainsworth reporting how hee was first made our Minister hee sayth The Dutch Eldership in this City being desired hath for their counsell and help in his ordination deputed three of their Brethren to assist us in this busines c. this they did not as assuming authoritie ‡ Note to themselves over us but in our name and by our request Being now established when as of late another Minister was called unto our Congregation wee used not their help herein as before but his ordination was performed by our owne Ministerie and Eldership without them If the Classis assumed not then any authority unto themselves over us how comes it to passe that they doe it now Or how will it hang together that their power is ancient and yet 20 or 30 yeares past they used it not This to me seemes grosse contradiction and that hee eates his owne words as Saturne did his children But I gesse what hath caused him to tell two contrary tales namely the difference of the people against whom hee hath writen The first were Separatists and therefore no marvaile though against them hee pleaded for a free Congregation for hee well knew that unlesse hee went this way to worke hee should fall with dishonour in the controversie between them The other are the oppressed and burthened members of the English Church in Amsterdam Now to keepe these under their burden and oppression hee sees that hee must let goe his former hold and on the contrary say wee are not a free Congregation but stand under another Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of our selves Thus a good wit will serve a disputant in good stead for by it if hee list hee can as the Poëts fable of their Proteus turne himself into all shapes Like him who having made an excellent speach in the commendation of justice afterwards spake as wittily to the contrary shewing that there was no justice at all in the world Or like a Gentleman of whom I haue heard that in an Assembly of States such as wee call Parliaments was absolutely the best speaker yet nothing respected and that for a most sufficient reason which was this They knew full well hee could speake as well and as moovingly to that which was quite contrary And I willingly professe that Mr. Paget hath a rare faculty this way to turne a thing which way hee will and make it say either I or no or both when hee pleaseth Notwithstanding this I must tell him the very thing which hee speakes off touching Mr. Robinsons Booke is now true concerning his owne former writing It is sicke of King Iehorams incurable desease Arrow pag. 59. the guttes of it fall out day by day Yea hee openlie pluckes out some of bowells thereof with his owne hands There are some other objections of the like nature which hee useth against us partly to disgrace our persons partly our cause as that wee doe not agree among our selves touching the due power of the Church That the practise which wee stand for is Brownisme c. Answ Such cavillations the a Celsus pag. 802. Lactant. l. 4. c. ult Isod Pelus Epist 90. Heathens haue used sometimes against Christian Religion so Papists b Bellar. de not Eccl. against Protestants and the like they c Brone Serm. pag. 103.104 Casend Answ to Abstract p. 210. c. Whitg p. 888. Loe comp cha p. 47. D. Bridg. l. p. 134. against Reformists Now I will not stand to make any particular answer hereto because the folly and vanity of it is sufficiently shewed by others d Iew. Def. Apol. p. 3.8.2.1 Whitak cont 4. qu. 5. c. 8. Sutclift de Eccl. p. 109. D. Mort. Apol 1. l. 2. who haue had occasion hereto-fore to reply unto such idle objections This onely for conclusion I desire may be noted that whereas hee seekes to disgrace Christs Gouvernment and to haue his owne honoured and embraced in this hee doth as one said in Tully of Hortensis when hee immoderately praysed eloquence that hee would have lift her up to heaven that hee himself might have gone up with her So I perceive Mr. Paget would faine haue the Classicall Discipline advanced that hee by it might haue worldly credit also Ioh. 13.17 If ye know these things blessed are ye if ye doe them FINIS ERRATA For were read where pag. 3. l. 13. For fayling read faylings p. 4. l. 22. For partialty read partiality p. 10. l. 33. For contended read contented p. 12. l. 15. For take read talke p. 15. l. 26. For word read world p. 33. l. 27. For conquest read conquer p. 51. l. 22. For notwithstand read notwithstanding p. 74. l. 15. For touching read touch-stone p. 77. l. 25.