we admit them all to be true doth conuince vs to haue disgraded Christ of his offices which are these to appease Gods wrath towards vs to pay the ransome for our sinnes to conquer the Diuell to open the Kingdome of heauen to bee supreme head of both men and Angels and such like He may without any derogation vnto these his soueraigne prerogatiues giue vnto his seruants first power to make lawes to binde in conscience as he hath done to all Princes which the Protestants themselues dare not denie then to determine vnfallibly of the true sense of holy Scripture which the Apostles could doe as all men confesse and yet do not make them Christs fellowes but his humble seruants to whom also hee gaue power properly to pardon sinnes Luc. 24. Ioan. 20. Mar. 16. Matt. 28. Whose sinnes you pardon on earth shall be pardoned in heauen and finally to them he also gaue authoritie ouer the whole earth goe into the vniuersall world Ouer part of hell no Pope hath authoritie and when he doeth good to any soule in Purgatory it is per modum suffragij as a suppliant and entreater not as a commander Whether hee hath any authoritie ouer Princes and their subiects in temporall affaires it is questioned by some yet no man not wilfully blinde can doubt but that Christ might haue giuen him that authority without disgrading himselfe of it as he hath imparted to him and to others also faculties of greater authoritie and vertue reseruing neuerthelesse the same vnto himselfe in a much more excellent maner As a King by substituting a Viceroy or some such like deputie to whom he giues most large commission doth not thereby disgrade himselfe of his Kingly authority as all the world knowes no more did our Sauiour Christ Iesus bereaue himselfe of his power or dignitie when hee bestowed some part thereof vpon his substitutes He goes on multiplying a number of idle words to small purpose as that we for one Christ the onely reall Priest of the new Testament ioyne many secondary Priests vnto him which offer Christ daily in the Masse Wee indeed hold the Apostles to haue beene made by Christ not imputatiue or phantasticall but reall and true Priests And by Christ his owne order and commandement to haue offered his body and bloud daily in the sacrifice of the Masse what of that see that question Furthermore he saith for one Iesus the all-sufficient mediatour of intercession they haue added many fellowes to him to make request for vs namely as many Saints as be in the Popes Kalendar yea and many more too For we hold that any of the faithfull yet liuing may bee also requested to pray for vs neither shall hee in haste bee able to prooue that Christ onely maketh intercession for vs though he be the onely mediatour that hath redeemed vs. R. ABBOT Christ by his office is our Prophet our Priest and our King Christ degraded by the Pope As a Prophet he hath declared fully and finally the whole counsell and way of God for the attainment of eternall life As a Priest he hath offered a sacrifice for our redemption and by vertue of that sacrifice is our Mediatour to intreat mercy for vs. As a King he prescribeth lawes whereby to gouerne vs and hauing a Matt. 28.18 All power giuen to him both in heauen and earth exerciseth the same to safegard and defend vs. In all these offices of which M. Bishop speaketh as if he vnderstood not what they meane the Church of Rome offereth most high indignity to the Son of God To take the points spoken of in order as they are first they are iniurious to the kingdome of Christ in that they giue the Pope authority to make lawes to bind in conscience which Christ only hath authority to doe b See hereof part 2. pag. 17.18 To bind in conscience is to tie the conscience and inward man to an opinion of holinesse and spirituall deuotion in the thing which is done so as to account the same a worship of religion whereby God is truly serued and honoured yea and further according to Romish fancies the means of remission of sinnes and the merit of eternall life This whosoeuer doth sheweth himselfe a deceiuer and an Antichrist and the Pope in so doing is found to be he of whom the Apostle prophecied c 2. Thess 2.4 that he should sit as God in the temple of God domineering in the hearts and consciences of them of whom it is said d 2. Cor. 6.16 Ye are the temple of the liuing God If Princes attempt to make lawes in this sort they are therein vniust and presumptuous against God Otherwise to speake of Princes lawes God himselfe bindeth the conscience to yeeld the outward man in subiection to the Prince when notwithstanding the conscience it selfe remaineth free as touching the thing which the Prince commandeth I know that in outward things it is true which the Apostle saith e 1. Cor. 6.12 10.23 All things are lawfull for mee I may doe all things God hath giuen mee no restraint To eat or not to eat to weare such a garment or not to weare it to doe thus or thus it is all one with God I am no whit the better the one way nor the worse the other way Neuerthelesse if my Prince command mee either way God requireth mee to abbridge my selfe of the outward vse of that liberty which he otherwise hath giuen mee and to performe obedience to my Prince yet still retaining inwardly the same opinion and persuasion of the thing in it selfe that I had before and therefore content to tie my selfe outwardly to do thus because I know inwardly that it is indifferent to God either to doe thus or thus The second presumption of the Pope against Christ is in taking vpon him infallibly to determine the sense of holy Scripture By which pretense he most impudently carieth himselfe bringing all abhominations into the Church and corrupting all religion and seruice of God and yet affirming that he doth nothing contrary to the Scripture because whatsoeuer the words of Scripture are yet the sense must be no other but what he list But well might we be thought to be without sense if so senseles a tale should preuaile with vs a thing which in the ancient Church for so many hundreds of yeeres amidst so many questions and controuersies was neuer dreamed of What needed the fathers so much to busie themselues and out of their owne exercise and experience prescribe rules to others for finding out the true sense of Scripture when as a Pope with a wet finger could haue helped them to the certaine and infallible truth thereof Yea why haue we so many Commentatours of the Church of Rome so various and diuers in their expositions and interpretations of Scripture and why doth not the Pope rather by one commentary of his illuminated vnderstanding reconcile all differences dispatch all doubts and resolue at once
that the Church according to the true members thereof shall be inuisible in the time of Antichrist it is without question Now that the Bishop of Rome hath beene and is that very Antichrist of whom the Scripture hath foretold and the Church of Rome the whoore of Babylon hath beene otherwhere plentifully shewed and in some part hath beene also handled formerly in the second part of this worke The time then hath been already for the Church to bee inuisible by the meanes of the furie of Antichrist maliciously and cruelly persecuting all that came to light that refused to drinke of his poisoned cup. Now hauing thus at large instructed M. Bishop what our doctrine is of the visibility of the Church I will answer him briefly as touching the other point of this cauill The Church subiect to errour that by the ancient monuments of the Church it plainly appeareth that many foule errors entred into the Church soone after the Apostles times that whilest m Matt. 13.25 the watchmen and husbandmen were sometimes sleepie the enemie came and sowed tares amongst the wheat that the builders built much n 1. Cor. 3.12 hay wood and stubble but yet so as that for the most part they reteined the only true foundatiō which is Iesus Christ so as that by the foundation they thēselues are saued but the fire of the Lord shall consume that trash which they haue builded thereon I haue o Answer to the Epistle sect 13. ex Euseb hist. eccles l. 3. c. 29. before shewed out of Eusebius how Egesippus limited the Virginitie of the Church to the age of the Apostles and that generation which with their owne eares heard the preaching of truth from them I haue there shewed how the shifts and subtilties of Satan for corrupting of the truth which he began to practise euen in their daies though they were then checked by their authoritie yet preuailed mightily when they were gone The errours which then were how farre they extended and whether they were in other places the same that we finde them to haue beene in some it is not apparant to vs but manifest it is that so cunningly and effectually Satan conueied that poison into the Church as that it hath neuer since perfectly recouered those wounds that it receiued then Yea Antichrist the man of sinne the master of abominations finding many of those corruptions in the Church hath bound them together as it were in a bundle and by his edicts and lawes hath obtruded and forced them to be receiued as articles of true faith But this saith M. Bishop doth mightily blemish the inestimable price of the most precious bloud of Christ. And why so Forsooth it maketh it not to be of sufficient value to purchase vnto him an euerlasting inheritance free from all errours in matters of faith and abounding in all good works But the effect of Christs purchase is to be determined by the wil of Christ himselfe and not by M. Bishops wilfull and witlesse dreames by which it may as wel be prooued that man is wholly without sinne as that the Church is without errour But I answer him briefly out of his owne words that as the Church which Christ hath purchased doth not so abound in all good works but that it is subiect to many sinnes so neither doth the same Church so abound in knowledge and truth but that it is subiect to many errors Christ intended not by his mediation to bring his Church in this life to full perfection So long as she continueth a pilgrim from her bridegrome and Lord she shall still carie the marks of mortalitie and corruption The Church in this world is like vnto the Moone which is neuer so cleere but that some fret or spot of darknesse is to bee seene in it and howsoeuer it seeme bright in one part yet is obscured in another But it is worth the while to see to what issue M. Bishop wil bring this conceit of his if he be vrged to reueale the secret of it For let vs question with him If the Church cannot erre how is it that the Church of Ephesus hath erred and quite fallen away p Act. 20.28 which God purchased with his owne blood and of which it was immediately that the Apostle said that q 1. Tim. 3.15 it was the pillar and ground of truth Did not the Church of r Gal. 1.6 Galatia erre The Churches of Corinth of Philippi of Thessalonica of Colossa of Pergamus Thyatira and the rest haue they not all gone astray Yes will hee say these particular Churches may erre but the whole Church vniuersall cannot erre But if euery part of the Church may erre then surely the whole Church may erre because all the parts make the whole which can be no other than the parts are We haue heereof example in the r Exod. 32.1 Israelites when the whole Church erred in setting vp the golden calfe and in the Christian Church which was in a maner ſ Vincent Lirinens Arianorū venenum non iam portiunculam quandam sed penè orbem totum contaminauerat wholly corrupted with the heresie of Arius t Hieron adu Lucifer Ingemuit totus orbis se esse Arianum miratus est the whole world groning as Hierome saith and woondering that it was become Arian Well he will say that the Church seuered and sundred in the parts thereof may erre but being assembled together by her Pastors and Bishops in a generall Councell it cannot erre But this the former instances disprooue for the whole Church of the Israelites was gathered together to Aaron the Christian Church was assembled together by her Pastors and Bishops in the Councell of Ariminum to the number of foure hundred who were moe than before had beene in the Councell of Nice and yet decreed for the Arian heresie So was there a second general Councel holden at Ephesus which affirmed approoued the heresie of Eutyches as there were also sundry other of which M. Bishop will not say but that they did erre True saieth he generall Councels may erre if they be not congregated by the authority of the Pope but being the Popes Councels they cannot erre But the Councels of Constance and Basil were both assembled by the Popes call and both these Councels decreed that the Councelis of greater authority than the Pope and the Pope subiect thereto which M. Bishop for the Popes sake will say is an errour and by the Popes procurement the contrary hath beene since determined in other Councels He will answer vs that the Councell though it be assembled by the Pope yet may goe awry if it become diuided from the Pope but being assisted and directed by him it cannot conclude amisse because the Pope cannot erre But we bring examples of diuers Popes that haue erred as Liberius by the herisie of the Arians Honorius by the heresie of the Monothelites and such like Well the Pope then saith he
not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
seede of Abraham t cap. 9.28 We be Moses disciples u vers 41. We see x Ier. 8 8. We are wise and the law of the Lord is with vs y ca. 18.18 The law shall not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet and yet they persecuted Christ the sonne of God who only is the Truth How then may we now be assured that the Church of Rome is not the same to the church of Christ as they then were to Christ himselfe How may we poore creatures certainely vnderstand that those rich creatures are not subiect to error and mistaking as well as we Well if we will not beleeue it we may chuse but assurance M. Bishop can yeeld none He can tell vs a discourse what Christ said to Peter but that Christ euer spake either of Pope or Cardinall he can shew vs nothing And yet as if this matter were cleere he telleth vs of this church of theirs that whereas we are subiect to mistaking and errour God hath ordained and appointed the same to be a skilfull and faithfull mistresse and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it But againe we aske him where hath God so ordained and appointed in what Scripture hath he written it or by what words hath he expressed it that the church which he meaneth should bee our mistresse to tell vs what is Gods word what is the true meaning of it If he haue euidence authority for it let him shew it if he haue not what shall we thinke of him that dareth thus to bely the maiesty of God But if he considered the matter aright he would conceiue that those rich creatures of his haue no other or better meanes to assure what is Gods word and what is the meaning of it than other poore creatures haue By what touchstone they can make triall thereof by the same can we also as well as they Which comparison of the gold-smith and the touchstone which he himselfe vseth if it be rightly explicated serueth notably to set foorth the fraud and falshood of that church for which he pleadeth True it is that the church in this behalfe may rightly bee compared to the Goldsmith Now the Gold-smith for the discerning of true and perfect gold doth not take his owne fingers ends but goeth to the touch-stone and no otherwise can hee either make triall himselfe or giue assurance thereof to other men In like sort therefore the church which is the Gold-smith must vse a touch-stone for the assuring of that which it propoundeth to bee receiued and beleeued Now then whereas M. Bishop saith that we must rely vpon the churches declaration to be assured which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall I answer him that we cannot be assured thereof by the churches declaration vnlesse the church declare it and manifest it by the touch-stone The touch-stone whereby we are to take assurance heereof is the constant and perpetuall tradition and testimony of the former church And this testimony we first deriue from the church of the Iewes z Rom. 3.2 to whom the words of God were committed and to whose Scriptures a Luk. 24.44 the law and the Prophets and the Psalmes and to no other b Aug. cont Gaudent lib. 2. cap. 23. quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis Christ himselfe hath giuen testimony as witnesses of himselfe reckoning them for c Luk. 24.27 all the Scriptures and wherof the Iewes in their dispersion giue acknowledgment vntill this day God so prouiding that d Aust in Psa 58. Per omnes gentes dispersi sunt ludaei testes iniquitatis suae veritatis nostrae ipsi habent codices de quibus prophetatus est Chrislus in Ps 56. Codicem portat Iudaeus vnde credat Christianus Christian faith should be prooued out of those bookes which are acknowledged for true by them that are enemies thereto This testimony the Christian church receiued of the Apostles and hath continued the same together with the acknowledgment of those other bookes of the new testament which by the Apostles and Euangelists were added to the former What bookes then haue had this generall and vndoubted auerment and witnesse of the church continued from time to time those and no other are to be holden for Canonicall bookes and this is the true touch-stone for trial of certaine and vndoubted scriptures By which touchstone the church of Rome is found to bee not a faithfull Mistresse but a false harlot bringing her bastards into the Church and forcing men to take them for lawfully begotten And whereas it is the tradition and declaration of the former church which hath beene from the beginning by which both they and we are to be instructed as touching the true bookes of Canonicall Scripture they force vpon vs the tradition of their owne church now deliuered vpon their owne word howsoeuer contrary to that which the church formerly hath declared If we follow the declaration of the ancient church then are no other bookes to be taken for Canonicall but what are now accknowledged and approoued in our Church the same onely being testified concerning the old testament by the Church of the Iewes concerning both new and old by the whole Christian church both the Greeke and Latine the Easterne and Westerne churches as e Of Traditions sect 17. before hath been declared But the church of Rome perceiuing the authorising of some other writings to be likely to gaine credit to some broken wares whence her thrift and gaine ariseth hath taken vpon her very presumptuously as a Mistresse or rather a goddesse to giue diuine authority to those bookes reiecting the testimony of that church which in this behalfe should bee mistresse both to her and vs. In a word whatsoeuer is to be attributed to the church in this respect it is idlely by M. Bishop referred to the church of Rome as if all other churches must rely vpon her declaration we our selues being able by the touchstone to make triall of true Scriptures as well as the church of Rome and therefore there being no cause why we should rely vpon them more than they vpon vs. And as vainely doth he apply to his purpose the saying of Saint Austin that he should not beleeue the Gospell except the authority of the church mooued him thereunto there being nothing therein meant but what may bee applied to the church England as well as to the church of Rome Saint Austin speaking generally of the vniuersall church thorowout the world without any maner speciall intendment of the church of Rome But how leudly they abuse those words of Austin wholly against his meaning and purpose I haue f Of Traditions sect 22. before sufficiently declared and neede not heere to repeat againe As for the churches declaration for vnderstanding the Scripture that is also to be tried and made
good by the touchstone because no exposition or sense of Scripture is to be admitted the doctrine whereof is not to be iustified by other Scripture and they that bring other senses and meanings do but deceiue men and leade them into errour as other heretikes formerly haue done and as the Papists now doe abusing the Scriptures to draw others after them into destruction Heereof also enough hath beene said g Of Traditions sect 21. before whereof I wish the Reader duely to consider for his satisfaction in this point That which he saith of other ancient Creeds and Confessions of faith that they containe not all points of Christian doctrine I eaily admit but yet let him vnderstand that it is a maine preiudice against them that neither any ancient Creed nor any exposition of the Creed or confession of faith conteineth sundry pointes which they now make to be matters of the meaning of the Creede Let him shew that euer any ancient Creed or expositour of the Creed did vnderstand or deliuer that the name of the Catholike church in the Creed hath any speciall reference to the Church of Rome that the Catholike church is to be defined as they now define it by being subiect to the bishop of Rome that the certaine declaration of the Canonicall bookes and of the true sense of Scripture is alwaies infallibly to be expected from the sentence of that Church that all Christians are fully to beleeue and wholly to relie vpon that Church for resolution of all points of faith necessarie to saluation Which and such other points made by them matters of the Creed because neuer any ancient writer hath found to be conteined or intended in the Creed therefore we iustly affirme them to be new Creed-makers coiners of new articles of faith and thereby peruerters and corrupters of the true Christian faith As concerning the Articles mentioned by M. Perkins now holden by the Romish Church that the Pope is Christs Vicar and head of the Catholike Church that there is a purgatorie fire after this life that images of God and of Saints are to be worshipped that praier is to be made to Saints departed and their intercession to bee required that there is a propitiatorie sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of quicke and dead M. Bishop answereth that the Fathers haue most plainly taught them in their writings and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions But what Fathers are they and in what writings haue they so done Surely if the Bishop of Rome in the ancient Church had beene taken to bee the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike church it cannot be but that we should haue very currant and frequent and memorable testimonie thereof as a matter vniuersally receiued and euery where practised But now let M. Bishop shew vs one let him shew so much as one that for diuers hundreds of yeeres after Christ did euer dreame of any such thing Which though indeed he cannot doe yet hee telleth vs of that and the rest that in those seuerall questions he hath before prooued what he saith whereas hee hath not spoken of any more of these points saue onely one and in that one point cannot be said to haue prooued any thing because whatsoeuer hee hath said standeth hitherto reprooued And surely if he haue no better proofes than hitherto he hath brought in all the questions that hee hath handled the Protestants will but scorne him as a very vnproouing disputer and aduise him to bestow his time a while longer in the Schooles to know what it is to prooue 3. W. BISHOP Touching beleeuing in the Church which he thrusteth in by the way we vse not that phrase as the very Creed sheweth following therein S. Augustine with others who hold that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our Creatour by giuing our whole heart vnto it in which sense we beleeue not in Saints nor in the Church albeit some other ancient Doctors take the words to beleeue in not so precisely but say that we may beleeue in the Church and in Saints that is beleeue certainly that the Catholike church is the onely true company of Christians and that to the lawfull gouernours thereof it appeâ—taineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them so we beleeue the Saints in heauen to heare our prayers to be carefull to pray for vs and to bee able to obtaine by intreaty much at Gods hands in whose high fauour they liue Thus much in answer vnto that which M. PERKINS obiecteth in generall Now to that he saith in particular R. ABBOT a Greg. Nazia de sp sancto orat 6. Sâ—â—reatuÌ„ est quo pacto in ipsum eredimu c. Non enim idem est in aliquem credere de eo credere nam illud diuimt atis est hoc cuiusuis rei It is one thing saith Gregory Nazianzene to beleeue in any one another to beleeue of or concerning him the one belongeth to the Godhead the other is vsed of euery thing And heereby hee prooueth that the holy Ghost is God because wee beleeue in the holy Ghost By which argument our Sauiour Christ also teacheth vs to acknowledge him to be God when he saith b Ioh. 14.1 Yee beleeue in God beleeue also in me where c Hilar. de Trin. lib. 9. Vniens se fidei dei naturae eius vniuit c. deumse per id docens cum in eum credendum sit ab his qui in deum credant vniting himselfe to the beleefe of God saith Hilarie he vniteth himselfe also to his nature thereby teaching that he himselfe is God for that they who beleeue in God must beleeue in him I might further enlarge this point by the testimonies and expositions of d Aug. in Ioan. tract 29. de ciu dei l. 18. ca. 54. Euseb Emissen Ruffin Venant in symbol Apost Austin Eusebius Emissenus Ruffinus Venantius and others who all acknowledge that that phrase belongeth to God and is not to bee applied to any creature But it shall not neede because the Elucidatour of the Romane Catechisme according to the doctrine of the Catechisme it self as he pretendeth though quite contrary both to their doctrine and practise otherwise doth tell vs that e Elucidat Catech Roman c. 9. q. 5. Cùm dicimus nos credere in deum patrem in filium in sp sanctum phrasis haec loquendi significat nos ita credere deum patrem filium spiritu sanctuÌ„ vt etiam in eis omnem fiduciam nostram collocemus quam in deo solo non autem in creaturis ponere possumus ex quibus tamen ecclesia composita est when wee say wee beleeue in God the Father in the Sonne in the holy Ghost this phrase of speaking doth signifie that wee so beleeue God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost as that also we place all
as he is a priuate man may erre but as Pope and in his consistory and iudiciall sentence hee cannot erre But what is the church now become an asse to carry a priuiledge for the Pope onely To returne vpon himselfe the skiruie terme that he hath vsed in the former section Is not heere a huge great mill-post fairely thwited into a poore pudding pricke that whereas we are told that it was the effect of the inestimable price of Christs bloud to purchase a church free from all errours in matter of faith The word of God the rule and square of Christian religion we haue this great prerogatiue of the Church resolued finally into a drunken dreame concerning the Pope that it is he onely that cannot erre This is the vpshot of all and to this issue the matter commeth that the church may erre the general councell may erre be the persons neuer so learned neuer so faithfull neuer so holy onely the Pope though hee bee an ignorant beast a very he hound and incarnate diuell yet sitting downe in his chaire of Pestilence to decree a sentence receiueth presently like the Prophets of Apollo some Enthusiasticall impression whereby he pronounceth infallibly a truth howsoeuer he himselfe in his owne priuate opinion bee perswaded otherwise Which being a ridiculous presumption a meere nouelty most impudently deuised by sycophants and parasites a matter which hath no shadow of defense from the beliefe or practise of the ancient church deserueth rather to be reiected with scorne than to haue any question made of it As for that other matter which he adioineth concerning the word of God and interpretation thereof he saith rightlie that we hold for so we doe the holy word of God to be the onely rule and square of Christian religion u Iren adu haeres lib 3. cap. 1. Euangelium per dei voluntatem in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrae futurum For it was the will of God that the Apostles should commit the Gospell to writing To be the pillar and foundation of our faith and x Aug. in epist. Ioan. tract 3. contra insidiosos errores ponere voluit deus firmamentum in Scripturis sanctis in the scriptures to appoint vs a fortresse against deceitfull errours so as that y Chrysost op imperfect hom 49. Christiani qui sunt in Christianitate volentes accipere firmitatem fidei ad nullam rem aliam fugiant nisi tantummodo ad scripturas Christians being desirous to receiue assurance of their faith are no whither else to flie but onely to the Scriptures But wheras he affirmeth that we say that Christ hath left his holy word to be vnderstood of euery man as his own knowledge and spirit shall direct him and that in doubtfull questions arising he hath taken no order for the deciding of them but that euery one may be his own Iudge they are but silly deuices of obiection against vs to colour the nouelties absurdities which we in the same behalfe iustly condemne in them Wee euery man vnderstand the Scriptures as his owne knowledge and spirit doth direct him and why Because we reiect that course of vnderstanding the Scripture which they factiously and partiallie haue of late deuised for the seruing of their owne turne z Hosius de expresso dei verbe Siquis habeat interpretatisnem ecclesiae Romanae de loco aliquo scripturae etiamsi nec sciat nec intelligat an quomodo cum scripturae verbis conueniat tamen habet ipsissimum verbum dei If a man forsooth haue the interpretation of the church of Rome concerning any place of Scripture albeit he seeth not how it accordeth with the words yet he hath the very word of God We leaue euery man in doubtfull questions to be his owne Iudge but why Because we refuse the triall of a Iudge presumptuously aduanced and authorised by them Forsooth the Pope being accused of hainous abominations and sacriledge against God must sit as Iudge whether he be guiltie or not and whether they doe iustly that haue accused him But what Scripture what Councell what Father or storie or practise of the Church hath tied the interpretation of the Scriptures to the church of Rome or the deciding of controuersies to the Bishop of Rome And whereas their course in this behalfe hath no maner of iustification from the ancient Church I challenge him on the other side to alleage any course entertained by the same Church for the interpretation of Scriptures and iudgement of controuersies which is not approued and practised by vs. Which because he cannot do he doth but waste his wit by trifling in this sort and renuing idle cauils which a Of Traditions sect 21.22 before haue beene troden vnder foote being not able to relieue them with any further defense or strength 18. W. BISHOP To fold vp this part let me entreate thee courteous reader to be an vpright Iudge betweene the Protestants doctrine and ours in this most weighty matter of Christs dignity vertues and mediation and if thou see most euidently that ours doth more aduance them why shouldest thou not giue sentence on our side They make Christ ignorant many yeares of his life we hold him from the first instant of his conception to haue beene replenished with most perfect knowledge They that he spake and taught now and then as other men did and was subiect to disordinate passions We that he was most free from all such and that he taught alwaies most diuinely They make his very death not sufficient to redeeme vs we hold that the least thing that euer he suffered in his life deserued the redemption of many worlds They that he died onely for the elect we that he died for all though many through their owne fault doe not receiue any benefit by his death They that thereby we are not purged from our sinnes but by imputation we that all are by the vertue thereof inwardly cleansed They that Christ purchased a Church consisting of few not to continue long and subiect to many errours we that he established a Church that should be spread ouer all the world and that should continue to the end of the world visibly and alwaies free from any errour in any matter of faith Finally they hold that Christ left his holy word to the disputation of men not taking any certaine order for the ending of controuersies that should arise about it we teach that he hath established a most assured meanes to decide all doubts in religion and to hold all obedient Christians inperfect vniformity of both faith and manners And because I am entred into these comparisons giue mee leaue to persist yet a little longer in them Consider also I pray you who goe neerer to Atheisme either we that thinke and speake of the most sacred Trinity as the blessed Fathers in the first Councell of Nice taught or they who directly crosse them and by the nouelty
and Espenceus confesse that p LindaÌ„ de opt gen interpret scrip l. 3. ca. p 3. Espenc Digres in 1. epist. ad Timoth. lib. 1. cap. 11. apud Rainold Thess 5. there are many Apocryphall things thrust thereinto out of the Gopell of Nicodemus and other toies that there is a false beginning shamefully and ignorantly set before the lecture of the Gospell that the canon of the Masse and the secrets are beraied with most foule faults that there are the festiuals of some saints whose names happily are scantly well warranted And what doe they now condemne the diuine seruice which they haue commended to the people haue set foorth for holy good for so many former ages Of their Bibles we haue heard before and shall I now say to them to whom he spake before If these Popes and Popish Bishops and doctours had once deceiued you in a mony matter you wold beware how you trusted them againe and will you beleeue them still they hauing by their owne confession so long deceiued you both in your Church-seruice and in your Bible commending the one to you as diuine seruice and the other as Gods pure word and since condemning them both If he will thinke vs fooles to argue in this sort let him put his hand to his owne nose and returne the imputation of this folly to himselfe remembring that it is an ill bird that beraieth his owne nest and that hee should first haue looked at home before hee had made this wise reason against vs. This only by the way as being impertinent to this place but by that that hath beene said of translations we may beforehand perceiue how faint and spiritlesse M. Bishops voice will be when the time shall come which so manfully he threatneth that he shall exclaime against vs as corruptours and deprauers of Gods sacred word At the most it will be but as the crie of a gander amongst the geese which thrusteth out the necke and hisseth and happily shaketh a man by the gowne and backe againe he runneth with a great noise and is applauded by all the flocke as if he had done some valiant worthy act It will then appeare further that it is rather for forme than for matter that hee thus bableth of peruersly mangling the Scriptures Of expounding Scriptures and resoluing doubts and of our owne pew-fellowes crying out shame vpon vs. Of resoluing doubts and difficulties I haue answered him the section last saue one I will not say as there onely of the ancient church but setting aside the foolish and idle dreame of a priuiledge resting in the Pope which is no other but an ambitious vsurpation and a meere Antichristian tyrannie subiecting the whole faith of the church to the will and fancy of one wicked man what meanes hath the Church of Rome for resoluing of doubts but that we haue in any respect as good as they Yea there are not so many difficulties or doubts in very materiall points vnresolued amongst vs as at this day remaine questioned vndecided in the Church of Rome As for ancient Fathers and Councels they are more truely regarded with vs than they are with them With vs they are made to yeeld onely to God and to his word but with them they must giue place to all their sacrilegious and abominable deuices Let the Fathers and Councels say what they will yet q Bellar. de Sacram li 2. c. 25. Omnium conciliorum veterum omnium dogmatum firmitas ab authoritate praesentis ecclesiae dependet the authority of them all and the certainty of all Doctrines must depend vpon the authority of their church As touching that which he saith that we beare our followers in hand that euery faithfull man by himselfe examining the circumstances of the text and comparing other like places shal find out the right meaning of al obscure sentences how impudeÌ„t a lie it is hereby appeareth for that we do not attribute so much to the industry or learning of any mortal man We say with Aust that r Aug lâ—b 83. quaest 69 solet circumstantia scripturae illuminare sententiam the circumstance of the scripture is woont to giue light of the meaning of it with Hilary that Å¿ Hilar. de Trinit li. 9. Dictorum intelligentia aut ex praepositis aut ex consequentibus expectatur the vnderstaÌ„ding of the sayings of Scripture is to be expected either from that that is gon before or that that followeth after We say with Origen that t Origen cont Cels l 4. Ex ipsius Scripturae locis inter se collatis verum sensum elicimus by comparing places of Scripture together we gather the right sense But yet neither doe we make these the onely necessarie meanes for vnderstanding of Scripture neither doe attribute to euery faithfull man the abilitie of doing these things neither doe we affirme of any man whatsoeuer that by these or any other meanes hee can attaine to the vnderstanding of all obscure sentences And yet we say that a vulgar faithful man hauing by plaine and euident texts learned the substance of true faith exercising himselfe in the reading of the Scriptures and being assisted by the ministery of the word may by comparing of places and examining of circumstances much further himselfe for the increase of his knowledge to his comfort and soules health Many are there of that great number of which M. Bishop speaketh who by such exercise of Scripture are able to stoppe his mouth and to giue him good instruction in the mysterie of true faith u Ps 119.105 The word of God is indeed the lanterne to their feete and the light to their steps and so farre are they from stumbling and falling thereby as that they x vers 104. gaine by it vnderstanding to hate and abhorre all wicked waies 20. W. BISHOP Now to make vp an euen reckoning with M. PER. Atheism I must come vnto their diuine seruice and worship of God the third point that I promised to handle because he spared not to speake his pleasure of ours First then whereas a true reall and externall sacrifice is among all externall works the most excellent seruice that can be done to the diuine Maiestie as shall bee prooued in the question of the sacrifice which also hath euer since the beginning of the world beene by the best men practised to acknowledge and testifie aswell the soueraigne dominion that God hath ouer vs as our dutifull subiection vnto his almightie goodnesse the Protestants to make knowne vnto the wiser sort that they are not Gods true loy all people will not vouchsafe to performe to him any such speciall seruice as to sacrifice in his honour nay they are fallen so farre out with this principall part of Gods true worship that they do in despight of it powre out most vile reproches against the daily sacrifice of the Catholike Church which conteineth the blessed body and most pretious
bloud of our redeemer IESVS Christ Secondly of seauen Sacraments instituted by our Sauiour both to exhibite honour to God and to sanctifie our soules they doe flatly reiect fiue of them And do further as much as in them lieth extinguish the vertue and efficacy of the other two For they hold Baptisme not to be the true instrument all cause of remission of our sinnes and of the infusion of grace in our soules but only to bee the signe and seale thereof And in steade of Christs sacred body really giuen to all Catholikes in the Sacrament of the Altar to their exceeding comfort and dignity the Protestants must be content to take vp with a bitte of bread and with a sup of wine a most pittifull exchange for so heauenly a banquet They doe daily feele and I would to God they had grace to vnderstand what a want they haue of the Sacrament of Confession which is the most soueraigne salue of the world to cure all the deadly and dangerous woundes of the soule Ah how carelesly doe they daily heape sinne vpon sin and suffer them to lie festring in their breasts euen till death for lacke of launcing them inseason by true and due confession Besides at the point of death when the Diuell is most busie to assault vs labouring then to make vs his owne for euer there is amongst them no anointing of the sicke with holy oile in the name of our Lord as S. Cap. 5. vers 14. Iames prescribeth joyned with the Priests praier which should saue the sicke and by meanes whereof his sinnes should be forgiuen and he lifted vp by our Lord and inwardly both greatly comforted and strengthned these heauenly helpes I say many others which our Catholike religion affords vnto all persons and by which rightly administred God is highly magnified are quite banished out of the Protestant territories and consequently their religion for want of them is mightily maymed They haue yet remaining some poore short praiers to be said twise a weeke for fearing belike to make their Ministers surfet of ouer much praying they will not tie them to any daily praiers Mattins Euensong and other set houres they leaue to the Priests sauing that on the Sabboath they solemnely meet together at the Church to say their seruice which is a certain mingle-mangle translated out of the old portaise and Masse booke patched vp together with some few of their owne inuention And though it be but short yet it is the Lord he knowes performed by most of them so slightly that an indifferent beholder would rather iudge them to come thither to gaze one vpon another or to common of worldly businesse than reuerently there to serue God Now as concerning the place where their diuine seruice is said if goodly stately Churches had not beene by men of our religion built to their handes in what simple cotes trow you would their key-cold deuotion haue beene content to serue their Lord if one Church or great steeple by any mishap fall into vtter ruine a collection throughout all England for many yeeres together will not serue to build it vp againe which maketh men of iudgement to perceiue that their religion is exceeding cold in the setting forward of good workes and that it rather tendeth to destruction than to edification Againe whereas our Churches are furnished with many goodly Altars trimmed vp decently and garnished with sundry faire and religious pictures to strike into the beholders a reuerent respect of that place and to draw them to heauenly meditations theirs haue ordinarily bare wals hanged with cob-webs except some of the better sort which are daubed like Ale-houses which some broken sentences of Scripture Besides the ancient custom of Christās being to pray with their faces toward the Sunne-rising to shew the hope they haue of a good resurrection and that by tradition receiued euen from the Apostles as witnesseth Saint Basil their Ministers in their highest mysteries De Spiritu sancto 27. looke ouer their Communiontable into the South to signifie perhaps that their spirituall estate is now at the highest and that in their religion there is no hope of rising towards heauen but assurance of declining R. ABBOT Our Diuine seruice and worship of God is not such as the Church of Rome and the followers thereof would haue it but it is sufficient for vs that it is such as God himselfe hath commanded Of true reall and externall sacrifice I haue answered him before both in the confutation of his a Sect. 27. Epistle more at large and briefly heere in the b Sect. 3. answer of this Preface Here I answer him againe in a word with the words of Iustin Martyr that c Iustin Mart. Dialog cum Tryph. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prayers and thanksgiuings are the onely perfect and acceptable sacrifices to God and that Christians haue learned to doe these onely euen in the memoriall of their dry and moist foode the bread of the Eucharist and the cup of the Eucharist as hee hath before called it in which is the remembrance of the passion which God by God himselfe suffered for vs. So then we doe not denie all sacrifice but we say as we haue beene taught by the Apostle S. Peter according to the ancient doctrine of the Church of Rome d 1. Pet. 2 5. We are made a spirituall house a holy priesthood to offer vp spirituall sacrifices the sacrifice e Psal 4.5 of righteousnesse the sacrifice f Ps 50.14.23 Heb. 13.15 of praise and thankesgiuing the sacrifice g Psal 51.17 of a broken and contrite heart the sacrifice h Phil. 4.18 of almes the sacrifice i Rom. 12.1 of our own bodies acceptable to God by Iesus Christ By these sacrifices we doe all loialtie and seruice to God and we doe not doubt but that we please God therein If we please not that wiser sort of which M. Bishop speaketh the reason is because they take vpon them to bee wiser than God For that propitiatory sacrifice which he driueth at is beyond Gods deuice God neuer taught it Christ neuer ordeined it the Primitiue Church neuer intended it there is no reason at al for it because the bloud of Christ once shed for vs is a sufficient propitiation and attonement for all our sinnes And because by k Heb. 1.3 10.14 once offering of himselfe hee hath purged our sinnes and made vs perfect for euer therefore it is no despight to Gods true worship but a iust assertion thereof to hold that the pretence of any further sacrifice for sinne is an impious and blasphemous derogation to the crosse of Christ As for his seuen Sacraments Seuen Sacraments a late deuice if he can prooue them to bee as he saith instituted by our Sauiour we are very readie to acknowledge the same But it is worthy to be noted that l Bellarm. de effect sacram cap. 25. Bellarmine standing vpon the proofe thereof
the greatest number were Italians they deserued for the most part rather to bee accounted a heard of swine than a Councell of learned men His reason that the principall points of Poperie cannot bee against the grounds of the Catechisme because the same is expounded by the decree and order of that Councell maketh as much for vs as it doth for them For the Catechisme is by order expounded and taught by vs wee open to the people the Creed the ten Commandements the Lords Praier the doctrine of Sacraments M. Bishop therefore doth amisse to say that our religion is opposite to those old grounds of true religion If this argument auaile not for vs then neither shall it auaile for him but wee are still at libertie to conceiue that notwithstanding their expounding of those grounds they teach points of doctrine contrary thereunto And indeed that expounding of theirs was no otherwise begun but in emulation of our doings in that kinde for vntill it pleased God to stirre vp the spirits of some of our men to endeuour the reformation of the Church and to that end to bring the people so much as in them lay out of the thraldome of blindnesse and ignorance wherein they were then holden the vse of Catechisme was quite abolished out of the Church the people knew neither the Creed nor the Lords praier but onely that they spake them like a charme in a strange and vnknowen tongue But when they saw vs recalling them to the ancient order of Catechising and thereby training them to the knowledge of God and of faith towards him they held it necessarie for the satisfaction of the world that they themselues should make some shew of doing the like and thereupon in the Councell of Trent tooke order for a Catechisme to bee published though they neuer meant to make any great vse of it but onely where necessitie should enforce them for the countermining of our labours and the staying of manie whom otherwise the desire of learning and of the knowledge of God would haue caried away from them Into that Catechisme and the rest of theirs how they haue foisted in matters of faith and doctrine which the old expositours of the Catechisme neuer knew nor haue deliuered wee shall somewhat perceiue by examining the processe and particulars of this booke In the meane time we answer M. Bishop that it is verie credible and ready enough to be beleeued of them that are carefull to vnderstand it that the church of Rome albeit while it continued sound in the faith all ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree with it yet since being gon out of her * The church of Rome hath swaiued from the tradition of the Apostles ancient way doth indeed crosse and destroy those principles of religion which formerly haue beene agreed vpon by all Churches For whereas hee saith that that church hath been euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolical traditions it is a stale iest Bellarmine himselfe perforce acknowledgeth it to bee a lie For it being manifest by the testimonie of Anacletus an ancient Bishop of Rome that c De consecrat dist 2. cap. Peracta Peracta consecratione communicent omnes qui nolin◠eccleasisticis carere liminibus sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romana tenet ecclesia the Apostles decreed and the church of Rome then obserued that they should be excommunicate whosoeuer were present after consecration and did not receiue the Communion Bellarmine in the behalfe of the now-church of Rome reiecteth the same as a thing d Bellarm. de Missa lib. 2. ca. 10. Cortum est decreta ista quae sine dubio non diuini sed humani iuris erant si ad populum pertinebant progressis temporis abrogata fuisse in processe of time abrogated by the church being but a matter of humane only constitutiō decree So likewise we see in the Councel of Cōstance acknowledging that e Concil Const sess 13. Licèt Christus post coenam instituerit discipulis suis administranerit sub vtraque specie panis vini hoc venerabile Sacramentum tamen hoc non obstante c. Et similitèr quòd licèt in primitiua ecclesia huiusmodi Sacramentum à fidelibus reciperetur sub vtraque specie tamen haec consuetudo ad euitandum aliqua scandala pericula est rationabilitèr introducta quòd à laicis tantummodo sub specie panis suscipiatur c. vnde pro lege habenda est c. Christ administred the holy Sacrament to his disciples vnder both kindes and that in the Primitiue Church it was so receiued of the faithfull and yet this notwithstanding they decree it for a law that lay men shall receiuc only in one kinde Now when thus with our eies we see and they themselues tell vs the contrary will M. Bishop notwithstanding tell vs that the Church of Rome hath been euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions Surely if they had failed but in these two they had not obserued al but now how many other things are there wherein they haue apparantly swarued from the example of the Apostles How then can we beleeue M. Bishop any further who doubteth not heere to affirme so grosse and manifest vntruth And to this vntruth he addeth another when hee saith that we slander all churches since the time of the Apostles with some corruption or other It is true that we note the corruptions of some churches and of some men accordingly as the history of the Church and the monuments of antiquity doe lay the same foorth vnto vs but wee cannot say that al Churches or al the Fathers of those times were guiltie of those corruptions For many Churches were there and many Bishops and Pastours of Churches of whom no memoriall is come vnto vs many whom we finde otherwise reported of than was true by the corrupting of those writings which they left vnto the Church and suborning other counterfets in their stead many who haue deliuered some exorbitant opinions of which notwithstanding it appeareth not that they had publike approbation in the Church many who haue left so little in record as touching points of faith as that it is hard by them to esteeme what the doctrine of the Church was As for the corruptions whereof we speake there are many of them such as that I doe not thinke M. Bishop to be so impudent but that hee will acknowledge the same as well as we there are none of them but that either by the word of God or by like warrant of antiquity we prooue them to be such as we report them His other tale that we hold no kinde of Apostolicall traditions to be necessary he himselfe knoweth to be vntrue because he knoweth that we receiue the Creede as necessarie which he saith came by tradition from the Apostles It hath beene also f Of Traditions sect 4. before giuen him to vnderstand that we reiect
points in religion to be beleeued are contained in the Creede I doe not well conceiue for my part I rather admit that the Creed is therefore called the key and rule of faith The Creed how the key and rule of faith for that it is a summary Briefe containing the principall and fundamentall points of Christian faith which doe as it weere open the doore to all the rest and by which all preaching and doctrine of faith is to be esteemed so as nothing may be admitted but what holdeth correspondence with this rule according to those vses which the Scripture teacheth vs to make of euery part therof Which the scripture I say teacheth vs to make for if we draw any article of our faith to the maintenance of any doctrine which hath no warrant or testimony of the Scripture we are corrupters of the faith and doe but abuse the name thereof to the cloaking of our owne deuice Thus M. Bishop and his fellowes corrupt the faith as touching the holy catholike church first in wresting the name of the catholike church to the particular church of Rome and secondly in challenging a certain and vndoubted credit to be yeelded to that church for the infallible resolution of all points of faith For as touching the first where hath the Scripture giuen vs any inckling that the name of the Catholike Church should in any peculiar manner be vnderstood of the Church of Rome We regard not their claime we know they haue tongue at will to speake for theÌ„selues but let them giue vs one word of God whereby it may appeare that by the name of the Church we are directed in special maner to that church We are not ignorant that amongst most ancient writers the name of Catholike church is sometimes giuen to the church of Rome but we know withall that it was no otherwise giuen to the church of Rome than to any other church euery Church being called a Catholike church as hath been a Answer to the Epistle sect 3. before shewed that communicated in true faith with the church dispersed thorow the whole world And therefore as Leo wrote himselfe b Leo epist. 12. Leo papa ecclesiae Catholicae vrbis Romae Bishop of the catholike church of the citie of Rome so doth Constantine the Emperour write c Socrat hist. li. 1. ca. 6. Constantinus Catholicae Alexandrinorum ecclesiae to the catholike church of Alexandria and Athanasius accordingly is entituled by his Clergy d Athanas Apolog 2. Theognio c. Presbyteri diaconi sub reuerendissimo episcopo Athanasio Catholicae ecclesiae Alexandrinae Bishop of the catholike church of Alexandria and Austin nameth e August cont Crescon li. 3. ca. 13. Omnis Aphricana Catholica ecclesia the catholike church of Africa and Aurelius writeth himselfe f Collat. cum Donat. cognit 1. ca. 16 Aurelius episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Carthaginensis Bishop of the catholike church of Carthage and another Aurelius g Ibid. ca. 201. Aurelius episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Macomadiensits cap. 204. Nouatus episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Sitifensis Bishop of the catholike church of Macomodia and Nouatus Bishop of the catholike church of Sitif So in the fift councell at Constantinople we reade the holy h Concil Constantinop 5. act 1. Supplicatiâ— Ã Clericis Monachis Apostolici thront Antiochenae magnae â—uitatis Catholicae sanctae ecclesiae catholike church of Antioch and in the subscriptions of the Councell i Dei Act. 8. in subscript Sextiltanus in sericordia Dei episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Tumensiu Megethius gratia Dei episcopus sanctae dei Catholicae ecclesiae ciuitatis Heracleae c. Sextilianus Bishop of the catholike church of Tunis Megethius Bishop of the holy catholike church of the city of Heracela and Pompeianus Bishop of the holy catholike church of the city of Victoria and sundry other the like By all which and many other examples it may appeare with how little discretion Dureus the Iesuit hath affirmed that k Duraeus cont Whitak li. 3. In nullum planè aliam Catholicae nomen ecclesiae quaerunque de Christiecclesia Prophetae praedixerunt quà m in Romanam conuenire possunt the name of the catholike church and those things which the Prophets haue forespoken of the church of Christ can agree to no other but to the church of Rome And with this madde and witlesse fancy they are all caried away so that there can bee no naming of the church or catholike church but it soundeth in their eares vndoubtedly to haue reference to the Church of Rome According to this fancy it is that M. Bishop heere would haue his Reader to imagine that by the beleefe of the Catholik church he is taught to beleeue the church of Rome And by the same illusion hee wresteth to his purpose the words of the Apostle that the church is the pillar and ground of truth and the promise that Christ maketh vnto his of his spirit to direct and guide them into all truth as if therein were some speciall priuiledge meant to the Roman church The Church how the pillar ground of truth But for the first place if any one church might challenge a prerogatiue therby it should be the church of Ephesus For Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus wished by the Apostle l 1. Tim. 1.3 to abide still there as specially to take vpon him the charge of that place He writeth to him purposely to instruct him how to carry himselfe in that charge m cap. 3.15 That thou maist know saith hee how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God which is the church of the liuing God the pillar grouÌ„d of truth The house of God then wherin Timothie was to conuerse which he was to gouern was the church of Ephesus as the church in general so this church for it own part in particular is called the church of the liuing God the pillar and ground of truth Yea these two goe hand in hand to be the house of God the church of the liuing God and to be the pillar and ground of truth Now of euery church of the faithfull it is said n 1. Pet. 2.5 Yee as liuely stones are made a spirituall house o 2. Cor. 6.16 yee are the Temple of the liuing God p Eph. 2.22 yee are built together in Christ to be Gods habitation Which way then I maruell is it now brought about that to be the pillar ground of truth should be a peculiar dignity of the church of Rome more than of the church of Ephesus or of any other particular church To be the pillar and ground of truth importeth the office and duty of the whole church and euery part thereof and not a speciall prerogatiue of any one church as to bee alwaies found so in act and execution The church is the pillar and ground of truth as the
our confidence in them which we are to put in God onely and not increatures of which notwithstanding the Church consisteth Which exposition wee acknowledge conteineth the very trueth agreeable to Gods word and doe wish that they would alwaies continue constant therein But they doe heerein as their vsuall maner is what by euidence of truth they are forced to say in one place for the maintenance of their owne traditions and superstitions they vnsay it or qualifie it in another And in this sort M. Bishop heere dealeth who first inclining somewhat to that construction alreadie mentioned and telling vs that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our Creatour by giuing our whole heart vnto it alleageth notwithstanding that some ancient Doctours take the words to beleeue in not so precisely but say that wee may beleeue in the church and in Saints heereby to make way to his absurd conceits which none of the ancient Doctours dreamed of it is true indeed that Epiphanius and Cyril haue vsed that maner of speech by adding the preposition in to the rest of the articles I beleeue in one holy Catholike church in one Baptisme in the remission of sinnes in the resurrection of the body in the life eternal but yet making thereof no other construction than we do as if the article were away To beleeue in the church was with them as M. Bishop saith to beleeue certainly in the Catholike church to be the onely true company of Christians and thereof we contend not wee beleeue the same as well as they though not in M. Bishops meaning which neuer was any part of their meaning that the Catholike church should be meant in any speciall maner of the church of Rome But whereas he addeth it is another part of their construction that to the lawfull gouernours thereof that is as he intendeth to the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops it appertaineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them he verie shamefully abuseth the ancient Doctours of whom there is not one that hath noted any such matter to be conteined in the Creed If hee know any let him acquaint vs therewith if hee know none let him confesse to his Reader as he must that he hath sought to deceiue him with a lie The same I say of beleeuing in Saints for which of the ancient Doctours hath taught vs out of our Creed that we are to beleeue in them He telleth vs what they meant by it that wee beleeue the Saints in heauen to heare our praiers to be carefull to pray for vs and to be able to obteine by intreatie much at Gods hands But what a strange man is he that will tell vs what men meant by words which they neuer spake Surely to beleeue in Saints is no antiquitie but nouelty and the deuice of him who by beleeuing in Saints seeketh to draw men away from beleefe in God The Apostle telleth vs that f Rom. 10 17. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God Thereupon Basil gathereth thus g Basil Ethit reg 80. Si quicquid ex fide non est peccatum est fides verò ex auditu auditus autem pâ—r verbum Dei est ergo quicquid extra diuinam Scripturam est cùm ex fide non sit peccatum est If whatsoeuer is not of faith bee sinne and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God surely whatsoeuer is beside the Scripture of God because it is not of faith is sinne Let M. Bishop then shew vs some word of God some warrant of Scripture that it is one point of faith to beleeue in Saints or if hee cannot so doe we must rest perswaded as we are that to beleeue in Saints is to sinne against God And if we may not beleeue in Saints then neither may we pray vnto them for h Rom. 10.14 how shall they call vpon him saith the Apostle in whom they haue not beleeued And seeing praier is i Grego Moral lib. 22. cap. 13. Vera postulatio non in oris est vocibus sed in cogitationibus cordis not a matter of the lippes but of the heart how can wee beleeue that the Saints in heauen heare our praiers when as the word of God telleth vs that k 1. King 8.39 it is God only which knoweth the hearts of all the children of men Againe seeing God hath himselfe named vnto vs the Mediator by whose intrety l Mat. 3.17 Ephe. 3.12 for whose sake he wil accept vs and in whom he will be m Iohn 14.13 glorified for the granting of our requests who n Rom. 8.34 sitteth at the right hand of God and o Heb. 7.25 euer liueth to make intercession for vs how can we call it faith and not rather impudent presumption that we of our owne heads should set vp euery Saint in heauen to be a Master of requests and disturbe that order which God himselfe hath appointed for our accesse to him Admit that in generality they pray for the consummation of their brethren they pray in fellowship of loue not by authority of mediation as ioined in affection with vs not as by specialtie of fauour appointed to be patrons for vs for in that respect it is true which Saint Austin telleth vs that p August in Psam 64. Solus ibi ex his qui carnem gustaverunt interpellat pro nobis of all that haue beene partakers of flesh it is Christ onely in heauen that maketh intercession for vs. To conclude we haue heard before out of the Catechisme that our beleeuing in God requireth all our confidence and trust to be placed in God onely Accordingly Cyprian saith that q Cyprian de dupl martyr Non credit in deum qui non in eo solo collocat totius felicitatis suae fidutiam he beleeueth not in God that placeth not the confidence of all his happinesse in God onely But beleeuing in Saints cannot be vnderstood but to import putting of trust and confidence in them Therefore we cannot beleeue in Saints but with the ouerthrow of our beleefe and trust in God And that the Popish beleeuing in Saints importeth the putting of their trust and confidence in them it plainly appeareth as by other their offices of deuotion so specially by their Ladies Psalter wherein they blasphemously vse to the Virgin Marie those words whereby Dauid professed his trust in God r Psalter Mariae Psal 7. Domina in te speraui de inimicis meis libera animam meam Psal 10. In domina confido propter dulcedinem misericordiae nominis sui psal 21. Quia ego speraui in gratia tua sempiternum a me opprobrium abstulisti Psal 45. Domina refugium nostrum tu es in omni necessitate nostra Psal 53 Domina in nomine tuo saluum me fac O Lady in thee haue I hoped deliuer my soule from mine enemies I
do not beleeue the one Catholike Church because they doe as well not beleeue it as beleeue it And as for the communion of Saints their learned Masters doe commonly cassier it out of the Creed and that not without cause For by the Saints vnderstanding as the Apostles did all good Christans whether aliue or departed this world they that deny praier to Saints and for the soules in Purgatory haue reason to reiect the common society and enter course that is betweene the Saints and the mutuall honour and help which such good Christian soules doe yeeld and afford one to another R. ABBOT The holy Catholike church which wee beleeue in the Creed being the communion of Saints is onely one The Catholike Church only one which is the body of Christ whereof all the faithfull are members being ioyned into this society by one spirit Visible and Inuisible being but circumstances cannot argue any multiplication of the church because the inuisible church importeth all them and them only who are the true members in their time of the visible church For in the visible church the name of the church properly belongeth to them onely who liue by faith and by the spirit of Christ the rest are not members but a August in 1 Ioan. epist tract 3. Sic sunt in corpore Christi quomodo humores mali as euill humours in the body which wait their time to be purged out In the meane time because all professe to seeke Christ and to serue him and our eies cannot distinguish betwixt them that truely doe so and them that doe not therefore visibly and to vs all goe together vnder the name of the church though many there be hypocrites and time seruers who with God and to his sight are no part thereof So then the church visible and inuisible in substance are the same they differ only in respect and M. Bishop knoweth that respects change not the natures of things and therefore those different respects doe nothing hinder but that the church in nature is alwaies one As touching the holinesse of the church M. Bishop in the deliuering of our opinion keepeth his woont He saith The holines of the church imputatiue and reall that we imagine it to be holy by the imputation of Christs holinesse to the elected brethren and not by the infusion of the holy Ghost into the hearts of all the faithful Whereas we doe not imagine only but by the word of God beleeue and know that the church and all the members thereof are holy not onely iudicially by the imputation of Christs holines but also really by the infusion of the holy Ghost begun in this life by b Rom. 8.23 the first fruits of the spirit and fully to be perefected when the promise of Christ shall be fullfilled c Mat. 5.6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousnesse for they shal be satisfied Againe he excepteth against vs that we cannot abide the name Catholike in the true sense of it Of the true sense of the name Catholike But what is that true sense That is saith hee they will not beleeue the true church to haue beene alwaies visibly extant since the time of the Apostles But what ancient father did euer set this downe for the true sense of the name Catholike If any let him be brought foorth If none why doth he contrary to his owne prescription introduce a new exposition of an article of our beleefe Cyril in his Catechisme bringeth in all the meanings of the name Catholike that he could learne that the church is so called for that d Cyril Hierosci Catechis 18. Illuminat Catholica vocatur quia per vntuersum sit orâ—em terrarum diffusa c. Et quia doret Catholicè hoc est vniuersalitèr sine vllo defectu vel differentia omnia dogmata quae deberent venire in cognitionem c Et quòd omne genus hominum ipè subiugat et quia in vniuersum curat omne genus peccatorum c. hab turque in illa omne genus virtutis c. it is vniuersally spread thorow the whole world for that it teacheth vniuersally all doctrines that are to be known for that it subiecteth to it alkinde of men for that it healeth all kinde of sinnes for that it hath in it all kind of vertues but of M. Bishops meaning that it should be alwaies visibly extant he had learned nothing Surely S. Ambrose saith e Ambros Hexaem lib. 3. cap. 2. Ecclesia habet tempora sua persecutionis pacis videtur sicut luna deficere sed non deficit obumbrari potest deficere non potest The church hath her times of persecution and peace it seemeth as the Moone to faile but it faileth not it may be ouershadowed but vtterly faile it cannot If the church may be as the Moone so ouershadowed by persecution as not to be seene then it is not necessary to be alwaies visibly extant and if that be not necessary then M. Bishop hath plaied heere the false merchant to tell vs that the church is therefore called Catholike because it is alwaies visibly extant Albeit there is somewhat also to be obserued concerning the name of the true church that we may speake to that time of the visibility of the church which M. Bishop specially intendeth For if wee call that the true Church which truely hath the outward vocation and calling of the church then we deny not but that the church in the time of Antichrist must bee and hath beene alwaies visibly extant because Antichrist was to possesse and hath possessed the visible state of the church But if by the true church we meane those members of the church which are truely correspondent to the vocation and calling of the church in faith and obedience vnto God then the true church is not alwaies visible because the greater part being the woorse doth many times oppresse the better and weaker part and proudly carrying it selfe in the opinion and confidence of it selfe persecuteth and driueth into corners all them that gainesay their traditions and wilworships which by their owne authority they establish to delude thereby and frustrate the word of God And thus we say that the true church in the time of the exaltation of Antichrist was in a sort inuisible the publike state of the church yeelding it selfe in thraldome to his tyranny and persecuting the true members of the church who disclaiming his obedience sought to keepe themselues entire and faithfull vnto God Whereas hee further addeth for the notation of the name Catholike that the church was so called as being generally spred into all countries we willingly acknowledge the same as being before acknowledged by the ancient church and defended against the Donatists who by other expositions sought to draw the name vnto themselues as the Papists now doe Onely wee adde that caution which Bellarmine himselfe hath deliuered as necessary for himselfe that f Beliarm
vs so that we shall see that hee had need of one to remember him that a liar must beare a braine See further what hath beene said heereof to the first section of his answer to M. Perkins his Dedicatorie Epistle 28. W. BISHOP 5. The fift Commandement teacheth that no man be killed by priuate authoritie yet Protestantes hold it lawfull to take armes euen against their lawfull Princes for the aduancement of their Gospell and haueâ—n thâ—â— quarrell killed and caused to be killed millions in Gerâ—anie â—rance Flanders and Scotland R. ABBOT This is a meere slander leudly deuised bâ— some Papists to take from themselues the enuie and iust reproch of that sauage and barbarous crueltie which they haue practised in Germany Popish barbaritie coloured by slandering the Protestants France Flanders in shedding the bloud of so many thousands of innocent persons without respect of time place sex age or degree They haue beene in their Churches togither to pray to God and to heare his word suspecting no harm when these Tygers and Wooles haue come armed vpon them and there slaine them without any difference both man woman and childe It were too long to set foorth the tragedie of those but cheries that haue beene committed in such like sort by the meanes of the Guises in France of the duke of Alba and others in Flanders and in Germany by the impetuous headlong tyrannie of Charles the fift The Protestants armes in this case haue beene onely defensiue when as contrary to publike edicts and proclamations contrarie to lawes rights and priuiledges and without legall course of proceeding they haue beene thus barbarously destroied Neither haue they then taken armes by priuate authoritie but by law and by the publicke direction of them to whom the maintenance and defence of those rights and liberties did belong Now that Papists for the aduancement of their idolatries and superstitions doe hold it lawfull and by their Confessours haue beene resolued that it is lawfull not onely to take armes against their Princes but by secret practise to murther them and by gun-powder to blow vp a whole Parliament house to the vtter confusion and subuersion of a whole state our experience from time to time hath sufficiently made knowen to vs. But a See heereof The difference betwixt Christian subiection and vnchristian rebellion part 3. by D. Bilson then Warden of Winche and now Bishop there that Protestants hold it lawfull as he obiecteth to take armes against their lawfull Princes for the aduancement of the Gospell it is a lie and contrary to the doctrine and profession of al our Churches 29. W. BISHOP 6 The sixt forbiddeth adulterie which is allowed of by Protestants in some case For they permit one party after dinorcement to marrie againe the other yet liuing whereas our Sauiour saith Whosoeuer dimisseth his wife and marrieth another committeth adulterie vpon her And if the wife dimisse her husband and marrie another she commiteth adulterie Moreouer incest is also forbidden in this Commandement now by the Canons of the Catholike Church and the authoritie of the ancient Fathers it is incest for one Cosen germaine to marry with another yet is it not seldome practised yea it is generally allowed of in the church of EnglaÌ„d R. ABBOT Protestants allow neither adultery nor incest Papists doe both The limitation of diuorce which our Sauiour Christ hath set down a Mat. 5.32 19.9 except it be for fornication maketh it lawfull for the party innocent to marry againe the delinquent being left to the censure of the Church vntill satisfaction shall be giuen of true repentance for so hainous sinne The Church of England notwithstanding for the preuenting of some mischiefes that by the wickednesse of men doe arise by abusing the liberty of mariage vpon diuorce vseth a restraint of that liberty that the parties diuorced shall put in caution not to marry againe so long as they both liue But the Church of Rome doth openly admit adultery in this behalfe making it free to the Pope to pronounce of a solemne mariage a nullity and to giue liberty to the husband to marry againe the former wife being neither deceased nor diuorced As for incest so determined by the law of God the Pope hath giuen allowance to it in giuing dispensation to the king of Spaine last deceased to marry his own sisters daughter as also to King Henry the eight of England to marry his own brothers wife But that whereof M. Bishop speaketh for one cousin germain to marry with another is no incest by Gods law nor there determined to be vnlawfull Yet thereof we commend that conceit which of old was had of it as S. Austen noteth b August de ciu dâ—i l. 15. c. 16 â—actum etiamâ—â—â—â—um propter vicinitatem horrebatur illiciti that that which was lawfull to be done yet was abhorred for that it is so neere to that that is vnlawfull Therefore albeit by law we prescribe no other bounds than God hath set yet we disswade such mariages rather than approoue them lest men by taking the vttermost of that that is lawfull should thereby the rather presume to that that is altogether vnlawfull As for the Canons of the Church of Rome we little respect them because we know they make no conscience to permit or prohibit as they themselues list who haue brought in a new deuise of spirituall kindred vnknown to ancient times whereby it is vnlawfull for them to marry ech to other who haue been godfathers and god mothers togâ—ther at the baptisme of a child Let them make Canons for themselues but for vs by the grace of God they shall make none 30. W. BISHOP 7. The seuenth Commandement condemneth with theft vsury and all withholding of our neighbours goods which was gotten vnlawfully yet Protestants commonly make no conscience to take ten in the hundreth which is plaine vsury and as for restitution of euill gotten goods it is cleane out of fashion among them R. ABBOT Hypocrite Our lawes allow no vsury at all as though it were not common amongst Papists also to take ten in the hundred Yet our law alloweth not this but punisheth it if it be informed with the losse of the increase If M. Bishop will say that because there is no execution of this punishment therefore it must be taken to be permitted I answer him that it is permitted as Moses permitted the bill of diuorce only a Mat. 19.8 for the hardnesse of mens hearts who cannot be induced to lend to supply the occasions and necessities of their brethren vnlesse they may be suffered to make benefit of their lending As for restitution of euill gotten goods we say that the wanting thereof wittingly is a token of the want of true repentance without which there is no saluation And albeit I doubt not but that I may say hereof that it is more sincerely practised with vs than it is with them yet I will not
death confessed that all his life he had doubted of three things whereof now he should be resolued whether there were a God whether the soule be immortall and whether there be any life after this life as Iulius the third who commanded to bring him his Porke in despight of God as Leo the tenth who made but a fable and a toy of all that we beleeue concerning Christ Many other of them haue there been of the same stampe most damnable villaines the very monsters of mankind vtterly deuoid of all remorse and conscience of piety towards God and thereby giuen ouer to all dissolutenesse and abomination of wicked and finfull life From them and their appendants hath this poison spred it selfe not only into the whole Court and City of Rome but into all Italy insomuch that in the Italian tongue the name of f Hespinian de Origine Monachatus lib. 6. c. 66. a Christian is by custome growen to signifie a foole M. Bishop well knoweth what the curse of the Wolfe is a most horrible blasphemy there vsed not fit for the mouth of any Christian to speake or the pen of any Christian to write to which though the Pope for his credits sake haue of later time assigned some kind of punishment yet well he woteth that it is more generall than that his Law can worke the restraint of it Out of Italy or at least from birds of the Popes hatching came the book De tribus mundi impostoribus whereby Moses and Christ as well as Mahomet are made but deluders and deceiuers of the world Out of Italy came Machiauels precepts wherby he hath taught men to cast off all yoke of religion and to vseit only to serue turne which notwithstanding according to that conceipt that he had of religion could say that g Machiauel Disputat de resubl l. 1. c. 12. Nusquam mâ—nus vel pietatis vel religionis est quam in ijs hominibus qui Romae vicinâ—ores habitant there was no where lesse faith or piety than in them that dwell neerest to Rome Whose rules as they are at this day the managing of the Papacy and familiar to all states that are confederated therewith so specially are they entertained and practised by the Iesuits who hauing taken away the honor from Friar Dominick of being the pillar of the Lateran Church and being become the speciall vpholders of the declining kingdome of Antichrist are discouered by the secular Priests and namely by their Proctor Watson to be very Atheists not regarding religion at all but only for a cloke to hide their villanies and for the compassing of their wicked and vngodly designes Thus Atheisme albeit it be not contained in the positiue Doctrine of the Romane Church yet becommeth a sequell thereof whilst hauing no true grounds for the iustifying of it and therfore being driuen to support it selfe by carnall policy it begetteth in the Politicians that practise for it a striuing and fighting against God whereby religion is quite banished out of the heart and only an outward colour remaineth for their maintenance of outward state Now therefore I will not question them of Atheisme vpon M. Perkins grounds but leauing his conclusion will only examine so far as need requireth M. Bishops defense of the propositions from which he draweth that conclusion there being nothing here but what either hath been before or must afterwards be further spoken of First M. Popery ouerthroweth the grace of God Perkins propoundeth that the Church of Rome making the merit of mens works to concur with the grace of God ouerthroweth the grace of God Which to be true appeareth by the words of the Apostle who mentioning k Rom. 11 6. the election of grace inferreth thus If it be of grace it is not of works otherwise grace is no grace or if it be of works it is not of grace otherwise worke is no worke importing plainly that grace and worke cannot be so reconciled as that what is of grace may truely be said to bee of works or what is of works may truely bee said to bee of grace For grace as Hierome expoundeth it importeth i Hieron Rom. ca. 11. Gratuitum munus appellatur a free gift so that k Iden epistâ—ad Vâ—metriad vli gratià non operum retributio sed donatis est largitas where grace is there is not rewarding of works but largesse and bounty of gift For l Leo epist. 84. Quae vtâ—que nisi â—atis detur non est gratia sed merces retributiâ—o meritoâ—uÌ„ grace saith Leo bishop of Rome except it be freely giuen is not grace but the reward and recempense of merits or workes implying that if it be the reward of merits then it is not freely giuen and therefore cannot be calied grace Therefore when the Apostle saith m Rom. 6.23 Eternall life is the grace or gift of God through Iesus Christ our Lord we must vnderstand it according to the words of the Psalme n Vulgat Latin Psal 55.7 Proâ—ihilo saluos facies illos Thou wilt saue them for nothing o â—â—eion ad Pâ—â—â—g lib 2. Hand 〈◊〉 quio iustos qui nou proprâ—â—â—crâ—to sed de saluâ—ntur clementia meaning the iust saith Hierome who art not saued by their owne merit but by the mercy of God To this M. Bishop telleth vs that they doe not make the merit of mans worke and the grace of God two distinct agents but hold that no works of man haue any merit vnlesse they proceed and prinâ— from the very grace of God Where not to question what he meaneth by giuing the name of an agent to the merit of mans worke answer him to the rest that his answer is vnsefficient and vaine because the Apostle knew well that we haue no workes wherewith to mooue God but only such as proceed from the grace of God and yet resolueth that Gods election if it be of works cannot be said to be of grace Whencesoeuer the workes proceed this rule standeth still most firme and sure that that cannot be said to be freely giuen and for nothing that is repaied to the merit of workes But whilest they will haue only workes of nature excluded by the Apostles words and not the workes that are wrought by grace they necessarily fall into the heresie of the Pelagians that the election of grace dependeth vpon the foresight of those works which our free will should doe by the help of grace Which if they will not grant as I trow they will not they must perforce confesse that the Apostle heere excludeth not only workes of nature but generally all workes whatsoeuer And the rather must they so confesse that they may not make the Apostle speake so idlely as by that construction he doth If it be of grace then it is not of workes done without grace and if it be of workes done without grace then it is not of grace as if the Apostle had had to doe with men who
habeant notitiam leprosi vel non leprosi possint discernere qui mundus quiuè immundus fit sic hic alligat vel soluit episcopus Et Presbyter non eos qui insontes sunt vel noxij sed pro officio suo cum peccatorum audierit varietates scit qui ligandus sit qui soluendus as the Priest in Moses law did make the Leper cleane or vncleane not for that he did so properly and indeed but only tooke notice who was a leper and who was not and did discerne betwixt the cleane and the vncleane so heere the Bishop or Priest doth bind or loose not bind them which be innocent or loose the guilty but when according to his office he heareth the variety of sinnes he knoweth who is to be bound and who to be loosed Not so then as that in propriety of speech he either remitteth or retaineth sinnes but only discerneth and notifieth who is to be taken for bound with God and who for loosed whose sinnes must be holden either to be remitted or retained y Idem in Mat. 18. vt sciant qui à talibus condemnantur sententiam humanam diuina sententia roborari Which sentence of man they who are thus condemned as Hierome againe saith must know to be strengthened and made good by the sentence of God himself namely when it proceedeth according to those rules and directions which God hath prescribed in this behalfe for otherwise z Idem in Mat. 16. Cùm apud deum non sententia sacerdotis sed reorum vita quaeratur it is not the sentence of the Priest but the life of the parties that is inquired of with God Here then the Pope is a manifest vsurper first against God in that he taketh vpon him a power properly to forgiue sinnes and thereby seateth himselfe in the throne of Iesus Christ secondly against the Church of God in challenging to himselfe a propriety of that which was spoken a Gregor in 1. Reg. l 6. cap. 3. vniuersali ecclesiae dicitur Quodcunque ligaueris c. to the vniuersall Church and wherein euery one that is a successour of the Apostles hath as great power and authority as he Christ saith he gaue his Apostles authority ouer the whole earth Goe into the vniuersall world But by this Christ gaue no more authority to one of them then he did to another and whatsoeuer he gaue them what is it to the Pope that he should thereby challenge b Deecret Greg. de foro competenti cap. Licet de Appellat ca. vt debitus in glossa Papa vnusomnium hominum ordinarius the whole world to be his diocesse and should define that c Extrau de maior obed c. vnam santam subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae pronunciamus omninò esse de necessitate salutis it concerneth euery humane creature vpon perill of damnation to be subiect vnto him And what authority did Christ giue them hereby other then S. Mathew expresseth d Mat. 28.19 Goe teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost teaching them to obserue al things whatsoeuer I haue commanded you This was their authority they had no power to command but what Christ had commanded them Let the Pope conforme himselfe to the tenour of this commission and he will then renounce his Popedome and we shall acknowledge him the disciple and seruant of Iesus Christ Ouer a part of hell he saith no Pope hath authority signifying thereby according to their partition the hell of the damned But how then did Clement the sixt not doubt to say in one of his Buls e Bale in Clem. 6. Nolumus quòd paena inferni sibi aliquatenus infligatur we will that the punishment of hell in no sort be laied or inflicted vpon him and how was it that Gregorie deliuered the soule of Traian out hell as f See Bellarm. de purgatorio lib. 2. cap. 8. Damascen hath reported and sundry authours of the Church of Rome as Bellarmine acknowledgeth haue stedfastly beleeued If M. Bishop tell vs that Gregorie did that only by way of intreaty and request he himselfe granteth the Pope to haue no other ouer Purgatory and therefore ouer hell and Purgatory he hath authority both alike When he doth good to any soule in Purgatory it is per modum suffragij as a suppliant and intreater not as a commander saith he But how then did the same Clement the sixt say concerning them who should die by the way as they were comming to his Iubilee at Rome g Bale vt supra Nihilominus prorsus mandamus angelis Paradisi quatenus animam à Purgatorie pentius absolu tam in Paradisi gloriam introducant We command the Angels of Paradise that they bring the soule of such a one into Paradise being fully freed from Purgatorie paines And what is all this power no more now but to supplicate and intreat Haue they mocked the world all this while made men beleeue that the Pope not only hath power to deliuer soules out of Purgatory himselfe but can also impart the same to others and is all come now to supplication and intreaty Why M. Bishop can supplicate and intreat as well as the Pope and what reason haue we but to thinke that God is as readie to heare his praier as the Popes and so by that meanes he shall haue as great power ouer Purgatory as the Pope Such are the mockeries of Poperie such are their doctrines of religion they themselues can not well tell what to make of them Further he saieth Whether the Pope hath any authoritie ouer Princes and their subiects in temporall affaires it is questioned by some The more shame is it M. Bishop for them by whom it is questioned Tertullian reporteth the minde of the ancient Church in this behalfe h Tertul. ad scapul Colimus imâ—eratorem vt hominem à deo secundum quicquid est à deo consecutum solo deo minorem We honour the Emperour as the man next to God and as hauing receiued of God whatsoeuer he is being inferiour to God onely And is it now come to be questioned whether the Pope euen in temporall affaires haue authority ouer Princes who in their kingdomes respectiuely are the same that the Emperour then was But is it questioned onely M. Bishop and not determined Wee may indeed admire their impudency therein that they who so much pretend antiquitie should resolue a matter so contrarie to the doctrine and example of all antiquitie but yet they haue so resolued that either directly or indirectly the Pope hath superioritie ouer Princes euen intemporall affaires i Treatise tending to Mitigation c. in the Preface to the Reader sect 22. The Canonists do commonly defend the first part saith the Mitigatour that is directly but Catholike Diuines for the most part the second that is indirectly and by
he created at first of nothing were borne without the debt and due originall of death and sinne and yet the almighty creatour would of them condemne some to euerlasting destruction who would say to him why hast thou so done for he who when they were not gaue them to be had it in his power for what end they should be neither might the rest aske why the merits of all being alike the iudgement of God should differ because the potter hath power ouer the clay to make of the same lump one vessell to honour and another to dishonour So doth Oecumenius bring in Photius chalenging vpon the same ground the same prerogatiue vnto almighty God m Phoc. apud Oecumen in Rom. 8. Dato quòd deus ita te formauerit neque ita iustum est deo contradicere illumque accusare Nam etsi nihil aliud praerogatiuae illi tribuere velis qui supra omnem est mentem sermonem at saltem quod omnibus commune est figulis quomodocunque rem effingentibus admodum absurdum est et impium ab eo tollere Quid igitur illud est Quòd nullum figmentum suum plasten accusat aut redarguit sed liberam habet voluntatem quisque opifex operari prout libuerit fingere accusatione racat potissimum autem apud ea quae finxit itaque tu etiamsi vt dicis formatus sis non debes indignari aut contradicere iuxta communem figmentorum legem ac modum Graunt saith he that God hath made thee thus yet is it not iust for thee to speake against God or to accuse him For albeit thou wilt yeeld no greater prerogatiue to him who is aboue all vnderstanding and speech yet were it absurd and impious that thou shouldest take from him that that is common to all workemen who in any sort frame or fashion any thing namely that no worke accuseth or reprooueth the maker but euery workeman is at his liberty to worke and fashion as he will and is not blamed specially by the things which he hath made Therefore although thou be so made as thou saiest yet according to the common rule and condition of things made thou art not to repine or gainsay thy maker Thus did these fathers see in the Apostles words how to free the maiestie of God from all attainder of iniustice euen in the supposall of that whence M. Bishop deriueth the same attainder Beza then and his followers may haue their reasons for that they say and yet so as to leaue the iustice of God without impreachment or challenge Yet we for our parts doe not therein assent to them nor see in their reasons any such waight as that we should be mooued thereby to vary from the common receiued iudgement of the ancient Church Gods foresight of mans fall precedent in order to his decree of reprobation We therefore resolue as most consonant and agreeable to the course of Scripture that God purposing to doe a worke for the setting foorth of his owne glory did consequently determine the maner therof in the creation of Angels and men whom he would leaue in the hand of their owne counsell and suffer them the one in part the other wholly both by their owne default to fall from the state of their originall Yet for mankind he thought it most fit in respect of the end whereat he aimed to prouide a Redeemer and Sauiour and for that end purposed the incarnation and death of Iesus Christ his only begotten Sonne in whom and for whose sake he elected out of the generations of men a remnant towards whom he would make the riches of his mercy most abundantly to appeare and be glorified in them the rest he deputed to be vessels of his wrath and instruments to serue his purposes both for the executing of his iudgements one of them vpon another and for the vse and benifit of his elect These counsels and purposes we vnderstand to be without difference of time with him who at one sight beholdeth all things from the beginning to the end but the naturall processe and subordination thereof we hold to be in this sort most rightly described euen in the same maner as God hath executed and manifested the same vnto vs. Neither doe we conceiue how it can stand good to haue this connexion framed otherwise for it is absurd to thinke that God would decree what to doe with man before he had decreed to create man and how should he elect if they were not first in his purpose out of whom he should elect Election maketh men n Rom. 9.23 the vessels of mercy and o Lâ—rnard de conuers ad Cleric ca. 10. Misericordiae prepria sedes miseria est the proper seat of mercy is misery as S. Bernard saith How then should God elect men to be vessels of mercy but that we must first presuppose misery in respect wherof he would shew mercy In a word how should we be said to be p Eph. 1.4.6 elected in Christ and accepted in Christ if Gods purpose of our election be by order of causes antecedent to Christs mediation Now if Gods purpose of the creation and redemption of man be in order precedent to election we must conceiue the like of reprobation that it presupposeth the fall of man whereby the iustice of God is acquited God finding mankind in state wherein he might iustly condemne all and it being his only meere mercy that he saueth some Albeit whether way soeuer we determine this point God is alike made subiect to those prophane wranglings which M. Bishop hath heere expressed and froward men vnstring their tongues to quarell and question with him why he should suffer Adam to fall when it was in his power to hold him vp why they should be condemned in Adam who in themselues haue done nothing against him why he should giue men ouer to lie frying in hell fire for that which they could not helpe nor had any meanes for the auoiding of it But against all such exceptions we answere with the former words of the Apostle There is no vnrighteousnesse with God and O man who art thou that disputest against God As for Gods inestimable goodnesse and mercy which M. Bishop withall alleageth it is not to be measured by his vaine fancy but by the rule of God himselfe who though he be good and mercifull in some sort generally to all yet of his speciall mercy hath made a limitation saying q Exo. 33.10 Rom. 9.15 I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy and will haue compassion on whom I will haue compassion For the rest let him take that which the Scripture pronounceth of them that r Rom. 9.22 they are vessels of wrath prepared to destruction Å¿ 1. Pet. 2.8 ordained to this selfe same thing t 2. Pet. 2.12 made to be taken and destroied u Iude vers 4. written of old to this condemnation Let him heare what
and assembling of the persons for the performance of that seruice The Church may be visible the former way when it is not visible the latter because it may be seene and knownen that there are many persons of such deuotion though they be not seene in any assembly for the practise of their deuotion In this sort there haue beene alwaies some either few or moe either one where or other who to the world though with perill and losse of their liues haue giuen testimony of the truth of God If we will vnderstand visible the latter way we must consider that the church it selfe may be spoken of diuersely either as touching the title of outward vocation and calling or as touching the sinceritie and truth of profession and faith There may be a church as touching outward calling visible to the world which yet doth not preserue that integrity truth of faith whereby it first became a church There may be a people tied by couenant vnto God and by Sacraments professing in their assemblies to serue him who yet vnfaithfully peruert the seruice of God and depart from that way of religion which he hath taught them In this outward state and condition of the Church it is to be remembred which our Sauiour Christ saith k Math. 22.14 Many are called but few are chosen the multitude generally taking vpon them to be called the people of God when few of them are so indeed in so much that the Prophet Esay cried out concerning the Church of Israel l Esay 10.21 Rom. 9.27 Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea yet but a remnant shall be saued For euen in the profession of true religion and where the word of God hath publicke maintenance and state yet how few are there commonly who care to bring foorth the fruits thereof in holy conuersation Albeit it falleth out further also many times that this outward face of the church is beraied with the filth of manifold superstitions and idolatries that true doctrine is reiected and in place thereof humane traditions and inuentions are set vp and magnified whilest men neglect and forget the couenant of God and will needes vse their owne wits for seruing him Yea so far they proceed in the admiration and liking of their owne doings as that they hate the truth and become persecutours of them who continue constant therein and refuse to ioine with them to be partakers of their sinne Thus it came to passe in Israel by the sinne of Ieroboam and much more by the sinne of Ahab and in Iudah by the Apostasie of Manasses who brought abhomination into the temple of God and set vp idols there to be worshipped instead of God At which time the case so stood as that Israel and Iudah hauing both cast off the yoake of the law of God broken the bounds that he appointed them there was no publike state of true religion throughout the whole world The publike state and gouernement of the same church of the Iewes the onely visible church refused the preaching of Christ preferred their owne traditions before Gods commandement and pronunced sentence of death against the Sonne of God They onely were the people of God the Church of God but perfidiously they rebelled against God and refused to be guided by his word But yet amidst all this Apostasie and defection of the church the calling of God did not become vaine neither was his couenant of circumcision without effect but still he had a remnant in whom he was glorified m 1. King 19.18 seuen thousand in Israel though vnknowen to Elias who had not bowed their knee vnto Baal in Iudah many who continued stedfast in the testimony of God in the pursute of whom Manasses is said n 2. King 21.16 to haue shed innocent blood exceeding much and to haue replenished Ierusalem therewith from corner to corner In a word at the comming of Christ amongst a huge heape of chaffe there were some graines of wheat some few faithfull that o Luk 2.38 23.51 waited for redemption and for the kingdome of God Now then where the church importeth them only that are professours of Gods true religion there the church is sometimes visible and somtimes inuisible visible one where another where inuisible For true religion sometimes hath publike state maintenance and the assemblies and congregations for exercise thereof are apparant to all mens eies that whosoeuer will may resort vnto them But sometimes hypocrisie getteth the vpper hand and vnder the name of the Church challengeth to it selfe the places of publike assemblie driuing out from thence synceritie and truth and suffering nothing to be done there but for it owne behoofe Heere then the professours of truth are faine p 1. King 18.4 Heb. 11.37.38 to hide their heads and to keepe themselues in corners and by stealth onely to assemble and meete together It falleth out heere many times that they are forced with Elias q 1. Kin. 19.3 to flie for their liues and because they are watched and waited for to be drawen to death therefore doe betake themselues to places where so neere as may be they may saue each to other neither be knowne nor seene In this case therefore the church that is the professours of the true faith and religion of the Church are said to be inuisible not for that they are meerely to mens eyes inuisible as is the Church in the first sense before named but because it is not to bee seene in publike state and assembly in free open profession as in times of peace and liberty it is woont to be For that otherwise they are visible appeareth plainly in that they liue continually subiect to the malignity of their aduersaries to indignity and reproch to bonds and imprisonment to cruell massacrees tortures and death all which they should auoid if they were wholly out of sight But this inuisibility of the church is not to be considered onely in the church persecuting the church the worse part thereof the better r August de doct Christ l. 3. cap. 32. Corpus domini verum atque simulatum the counterfeit body of Christ as Saint Austin calleth it the true but also when by foreiners and strangers attempt is made against the whole church For so it is sometimes that the whole name of the church of God is impugned and the aduersary vseth all his might vtterly to extinguish the memoriall thereof God by this meanes making triall of his and exercising their faith and patience and bringing iust reuenge vpon hypocrites who abuse his calling and grace to the doing of their owne will Heere then God giuing way to the enemy the outward state of the church is wholy ouerthrowen the publike exercise of religion is altogether interrupted and broken off and the members of the church though they be seene and knownen as such a people yet are not seene in the condition of the
done in the middest thereof who imparted to other what they themselues saw and liued and died in the comfort of that faith which we now maintaine against the Church of Rome But many there were who did professedly separate themselues from the assemblies of the church because of the abominations that were exercised therein being carefull according to the knowledge which God had giuen them to keepe themselues vndefiled that with pure conscience they might serue him Yea sometimes and in some places there wanted not publike profession and exercise of Gods truth and whole countries and townes and cities followed the religion of Christ with expresse renouncing of the abominations of the church of Rome Which seuering of themselues notwithstanding not being absolute and vniuersall but onely respectiue because of the intolerable enormities and corruptions preuailing in the church made not them that thus diuided themselues a new or another church but onely freed them from the default of the church whereof they were members For to vse the former comparison as when the pestilence rageth in a city they that for auoiding the infection doe forbeare the common assemblies and meetings doe not thereby depriue themselues of their interest in that corporation state but doe still continue citizens and members thereof euen so they who for manifest idolatries and abominations did forbeare the communion and fellowship of their owne or other churches did not thereby disable or impeach their right and title of being members of the church but rather maintained the same so much the more by eschuing the corruptions wherby the church was in danger to be cut off to become no church But vpon al these the eie of malice was continually cast and Antichrist pretending c Aug. de Ciuit. Dei li. 20. c. 19. In templum dei sedet tanquam ipse sit templum dei quod est ecclesia c. Ad eum pertinentem hominum multitudinem simul cum ipso intelligi volunt c. himselfe and his onely to be the church of God waited and tooke all occasions and opportunities for the destruction of them By the stories it is plaine how they were hated and persecuted in England France Italy Germany Bohemia Poland and other countries vnder the names of Waldenses Albigenses Wicleuistes Hussites Taborites Carmelites Leonistes Lollardes and such like It is memorable which d Bellar. de notis eccl cap. 18. Bellarmine reporteth out of Paulus Aemelius the French Chronicler that of them there were a hundred thousand slaine at one time in France which was done by the procurement of e Hospinian de Origine Monach l 6. c. 4. Frier Dominicke who hauing long time laboured in the countrie of the Earle of Tholouse to bring them to the obedience of the sea of Rome when bringing nothing out of Gods word to perswade them hee could not preuaile plaied the butcherly wretch and caused so great a number of poore innocent soules by an army sent in amongst them miserably to be slaine In like sort by Matthew Paris it appeareth reporting the matter according to the conceit and report of that time that in Spaine and Germany there were f Math. Paris in Henrico 3. anno 1234. peremptus est infidelium haereticorum Albigensium numerus infinitus an infinite number of them murthered some of them he saith for rebellion but indeed all for conscience sake Such tragedies they acted in diuers and sundrie places from time to time for the space of three hundred yeeres and more they proscribed they killed and burned the professours of our religion the earth was died with their bloud and strawed with their ashes their stories mention them their registers name them their writers of heresies doe testifie what their opinions were albeit in some points thereof it appeareth by some of them that the rest lie fathering vpon them as g Idem ibid. Asserebant constanter fidem Christianam et praecipuè incarnationis mysterium friuolum esse penitus abrogandum Matthew Paris doth things impious and absurd which they neuer dreamed of and yet with impudent faces they aske of vs where our church where our religion was before Luthers time as if the same had neuer beene heard of in the world before As touching the persons then our church was manifest enough to them by whom it was thus persecuted which yet were not another church but children of one mother and members of one church with them that persecuted them I meane not of the church of Rome but of the Catholicke visible church which for the most part the church of Rome had brought in subiection to it selfe Their mother had plaied the harlot and with the whoore of Babylon had prostituted herselfe to Antichrist and because they would not approoue her fornications therefore shee condemned them therefore h Esay 66.5 their brethren who said Let the Lord be glorified yet did cast them out for the names sake of the Lord and they had occasion to complaine as doth the Spouse in the Canticles i Cant. 1.5 The children of mine owne Mother are risen vp against mee But if these persecutours glory that the churches and places of assembly were in their hands they doe no more but what the Arians of old did when they had gotten into their possession the churches thorowout the whole world we answer as Hilary did to them k Hilar. cont Auxent Malè vos parietum amor cepit malè ecclesiam dei in tectis aedificijsque veneramini Annè ambiguum est in his Antichristum esse sessurum Montes mihi syluae lacus carceres voragines sunt tutiores in his enim prophetae aut manentes aut demersi dei spiritu prophetabant You doe amisse to be in loue with walles ill doe you honour and admire the Church of God in houses and buildings Is there any doubt but that Antichrist shall sit in them Mountaines and woods and lakes and prisons and caues are safer to me for in them the Prophets abiding or sticking did Prophecie by the spirit of God The case is alike Arianisme had then ouerspred the whole face of the Church and the heretikes had the Churches in their hands the true professors of the faith were driuen into corners yet Hilary thought this to be no preiudice vnto them nay he held it to be the right picture of the true Church Euen so Poperie since hath preuailed and gotten the vpper hand what preiudice is it to the professours of true religion that in the meane time they haue vndergone the same condition that the Prophets and other faithfull in former times haue done Yea S. Austin expresly testifieth that l Aust epist 80 Ecclesia non apparebit impijs tunc persecutoribus vltra modum saeuientibus the Church in the time of Antichrist shall be inuisible because wicked persecutors shall then practise their crueltie beyond measure Let it bee the question then whether Antichrist be come but
vp with a bit of bread and asuppe of wine as this tauerne-companion prophanely speaketh but very truely and faithfully we deliuer the fruit and effect of this heauenly banquet Which is not a heauenly banquet as he teacheth it but a grose Capernaitish error earthly fancy nor any matter of comfort to vs because it is no comfort to haue Christ in our bellies but in our hearts nor any dignity to vs but a horrible indignity to Christ himselfe who by this meanes is made subiect to be eaten of dogges and swine and mice and other vile creatures as they most damnably affirme as hath beene z Answer to the epistle sect 14. Auricular confession a meere superstition before declared Confusion of our sinnes wee make daily to God and wee teach men in trouble of conscience to ease their wounds by opening them as to other men when occasion requireth so specially to the minister of Gods word to receiue instruction and comfort towards God As for their Popish confession deuised by the Schoolemen requiring a necessary and particular enumeration of all sinnes it is meerely superstitious and serueth either to snare and halter the consciences of men or to nourish and harden them in sinne M. Bishop magnifieth the effect thereof but indeed plaieth the hypocrite therein because he well knoweth that there is no where lesse piety and deuotion no where more profanenesse and filthines than in Spaine and Italy where confession is most strictly seuerely required What fruits it bringeth foorth amongst them he must giue vs leaue to thinke though we are loth to speake onely I say with the words of the Apostle a Eph. 5.12 Extreme vnction deuised by heretikes It is a shame euen to name the things that are done of them in secret Their extreme vnction which hee mentioneth next was the deuice of the Valentinian heretikes and b Aug. haer 16. feruntur suos morientes nouo modo quasi redimere per oleum balsamum aquam inuocationes quas Hebraicis verbis dicunt super capita eorum Epiphan haer 36. vt qui has inuocationes in vitae exitu accipiunt cum aqua oleo aut vnguento permixtis incomprehensibiles fiant inuisibiles supernis potestatibus principatibus Heracleonites who tooke vpon them in the like sort by anointing at the point of death to giue men expiation of their sinnes and to arme them against the aduersary powers He alleageth Saint Iames for the proofe of it whereas the vnction of which Saint Iames speaketh was the restoring of the party to health by c 1. Cor. 12.9 the gift of healing accordingly as is said of the Apostles d Mark 6.13 They anointed many that were sicke with oile and healed them But their vnction hath no intendment of healing being onely administred when no other is expected but certaine death Let them shew vs what warrant they haue to apply that to one end that was appointed to another It was a miraculous gift proper to that time and idlely should we retaine the signe when we haue no power to doe the thing Next he commeth to our praiers in derogation wherof considering their owne praiers he would haue bene ashamed to say any thing Our prayers and seruice more holie than the Papists but that it is a shame with them to bee ashamed Our praiers are so disposed as is most conuenient for publike order in the Church We pray in our owne tongue as the e 1. Cor. 14.15 Apostle teacheth vs that we may vnderstand what we pray Wee know that God respecteth not the length of our praiers but our deuotion and faith and therefore our praiers are many and short like those of f Aug. ep 121. cap. 10. Dicunterfratres in Aâ—gâ—pto crelâ—â—at quâ—dâ—m habere oralioâ— nâ—â— sed eas tamen â—â—uissimas 〈◊〉 quodammodo â—aculataâ—â—â—per productiores moras euanescat atque hebetetur intentio the Christian Moonkes in Egypt which Saint Austin mentioneth wherein were few words but abundance of spirit and these are intermingled with reading of the word of God in such sort as may best serue for the continuance of our intention and affection As for Popish praiers they are in a tongue which the people vnderstandeth not they sit present at them mute and brute they heare a sound but they know not whether hee that speaketh doe blesse or curse whether hee speake to God or the diuell and because they aske nothing of God they depart empty as they come Their Mattins their Euensong and other set houres they merit ex opere operato whether they haue deuotion or no deuotion God is beholding to them for their very paines They pray to Saints in stead of God and make them their Mediatours and haue more hope to preuaile by them than by the true Mediatour Iesus Christ Such praying wee are content indeede to leaue to their Priests and what they win thereby they shall haue our good will to weare Whereas he saith that our seruice is a mingle-mangle translated out of the old Portaise and Masse-booke he forgat to vse his words aright For the Portesse and the Masse-booke are in truth the mingle-mangle wherin they haue packed together religion and superstition piety and idolatry and with the ancient seruice of the primitiue Church haue blended many absurdities and abominations of their owne deuice Therefore the composers of our Church seruice because they minded not to set vp a new Church but only to reforme the Church did take a course accordingly not to set foorth another Seruice but to reforme that that was and to expunge those corruptions which the abomination of desolation had brought into it They gathered the pearles out of the mucke whereinto they were throwen what was consonant to the word of God and agreeable to the example of the purest antiquity that they made choice of and haue translated it into our booke the other filth they left for swine that will needs so be to wallow in The performance of our Seruice I doubt not wanteth much of that deuotion and thankefulnesse which wee should yeeld to God who so graciously hath vouchsafed vs the light of his truth but yet ill doth it beseeme a cripple to vpbraide another with a lame leg Let Platina tell vs with what reuerence and deuotion diuine seruice is done in the Church of Rome g Plat. de vit Pont in Stephano 3. Nune adeò refrixit pietas religio non dico nudu pedibus sed caligati cothurnati vix supplicare dignantur Non Flent inter eundum vel dum satrificatur sed rident quidem impudenter de his etiam loquor quos purpura insigniores facit Non hymnos canunt id enim seruile videtur sed iocos fabulas ad risum concitandum inter se narrant Quid plura quò quis dicacior est petulantior eò maiorem in tam corruptis moribus laudem meretur seueros
et graues viros reformidat hic noster clerus Now is piety and religion waxen very cold I will not say barefooted but hauing on their hose and buskins they scant vouchsafe to kneele downe to pray They weepe not as they goe or whilest the Sacrifie is in hand but they laugh and that impudently euen of them I speak whom their purple robes make more eminent than others They sing not the hymnes for that seemeth too base a matter but they tell iests and tales to make one another laugh What should I say any more the more pratling and wanton a man is so much the more commendation hath he in this corruption of maners This Clergie of ours is afraid of staid and graue men Now if the Clergy of Rome be such M. Bishop I trow of his courtesie will beare with vs if some such vngracious and retchlesse people be found amongst vs. The best is he is not present to see any such matter and therfore vpon his owne surmise may be likly to tel a lie If he were present in our cōgregations specially in townes cities I doubt not but he should see examples enow of them who say of the Church as Iacob did of Bethel h Gen. 28.16.17 How fearefull is this place this is no other but the house of God and this is the gate of heauen surely the Lord is in this place and therefore addresse themselues as Cornelius did when he was to heare the preaching of Peter i Act. 10.33 We are all heerepresent before God to heare all things that are commanded thee of God Concerning the place where our diuine seruice is said he asketh If goodly stately Churches had not beene built to their hands by men of our religion in what simple cotes trow you would their key-cold denotion haue beene content to serue their Lord And why their Lord What M. Bishop is he not your Lord as well as ours But it is true indeede that you haue another Lord whom you haue stiled k Extrauag Ioan. 22. Cum inter in glossa Dominus deus noster papa Our Lord God the Pope and must we thinke that your seruice is done to him But if we had had no other but simple cotes wherein to serue God we suppose our deuotion should haue beene as well accepted as in goodly and stately Churches The time was when the Apostles and first Christians did serue God in simple cotes and in the times of l Arnob. cont gent. lib. 6. Origen contra Cel. l. 3. 7. Arnobius and Origen the Pagans vpbraided them with the want of stately Churches and yet M. Bishop I thinke will not say but that they serued God as religiously as now they doe in the church of Rome Stately Temples as they are sometimes the fruits of true deuotion so they are sometimes matters of ambitious ostentation and sometimes the dotages of abominable superstition Herod the King euen hee that would haue murthered our Sauiour when hee was but new borne to shew his roialty and magnificence and to gaine fauour of the Iewes builded m Ioseph Antiquit Iuda◠li. 15. c. 14. the Temple of Ierusalem most gloriously and farre more neerely to the paterne of Salomons Temple than when after the captiuity they restored it the second time so as that we see the Disciples in the Gospell admiring n Mar. 13.1 Luk. 21 5. the goodly stones and buildings of it Origen mentioneth o Origen cont Cels li. 3. Splendida sana cum lucis templa cum vestibulis porticibus eximia magnitudine atque pulchritudine mirandis introgressus autem videbit adorari felem aut simiam c. the goodly Chapels and Temples of the Aegyptians with thier entries and porches admirable for thier maruellous greatnesse and fairenesse into which when yee were come yee should see them worship a cat or an ape or a crocodile or a goat or a dogge The Temple p Act. 19.27 of Diana was a most goodly thing and renowmed thorow the whole world And surely what M. Bishop now saith to vs the same might the Pagans haue said to our forefathers when they were first Christians They might haue asked them in what simple cotes they would haue serued Christ if men of their religion had not builded to their hands goodly Temples which by q Greg li. 9. ep 71. Fana idolorum in eadem gente aestrui minin è debent c. si fana eadem benè constructa sunt necesse est vt à cultu dae monum in obsequium veri dei debeant commutari Gregories aduice were turned to Christian Churches as in other places also r Lib. 2. indict 11. ep 19. Loca quondam execrandu erroribus deputata in Catholicae religionis reuerentiam dedicare he signifieth they did the like Now if Pagans in this respect were not inferiour to Papists then it is not to be a question by whom Churches were built but by whom they are rightly vsed By whomsoeuer they were built we now vse them for the exercise of true religion to the glory of God neither is our religion so cold in the setting forward of good workes but that whether by collections or otherwise wee maintaine and vphold both Church and steeple thankes be to God to that vse and we hope shall so doe to their griefe and sorrow vntill the worlds end Neither is it any disgrace to our times that collections are now generally made to such ends and purposes but rather a commendation that so many are now found so ready to contribute to such acts of piety which M. Bishop will haue vs thinke were done in former times only by some few The widowes ſ Mar 12.42 two mites were more with God than the great offerings of the rich men and we hope that the small helpes which we seuerally giue according to our ability for the maintenance of Gods seruice are as well accepted with God as the magnificence of them who out of their abundance and superfluity haue performed so great acts thēselues alone These mites being put together doe that thankes be to God that is necessary to be done and I thinke it is more than M. Bishop can iustifie that they did not in those times wherof he speaketh vse such general collections for the doing of the like things Whether they did or not it skilleth not we know that t Exo. 35.5.21 the Tabernacle of God was built in effect by such collections and God promised to dwell in it and we doubt not but he is also present with vs in our Tabernacles which by such meanes are mainteined to serue him To be short that they by whom churches were built since the faith of Christ heere receiued were all of their religion is but a vaine presumption of M. Bishop and a meere vntruth as in part hath beene declared u Answer to the Epistle sect 31.36 before and heereafter if God will vpon another occasion shall
appeare further As for his other quarrell that we haue in our churches neither Altars nor Images it pleaseth vs the better for that we finde the same also obiected to the first Christians by x Celsus apud Origen cont Cels l. 7. Non ferunt templa aras statuas inspicere lib. 8. Celsus ait nos ararum statuarū templorumque dedicationes fugere Celsus the Pagan We like well to be vnlike to the Church of Rome so that we may be like to them For M. Bishop we know him to be a man much delighted with babies a trimme gilded Rood and a goodly faire Lady they are the ioy of his heart Let God say what he will that y Esay 44 10. the Image is profitable for nothing and that z Ierem. 10.8 the stocke is a doctrine of vanity yet he will not be perswaded but that the sight of these goodly Idols is the only way to procure heauenly meditation As for sentences of Scripture to be set vp vpon the Church walles that is but dawbing it is but Ale-house fashion and no heauenly meditation groweth thereof But may we not thinke that he came from the Ale-house when he wrot this and that he is indeed fitter for an Ale-house than for the Church What must we thinke that the looking vpon a dumbe and dead stocke is fitter to mooue heauenly meditation than the liuelie word of God But we see his meaning well enough it is this Scripture that troubleth him his stomacke can by no meanes brooke this Scripture to haue Gods commandement written vpon the church wals as by order it is appointed a Exod. 20.4 Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image nor the likenesse of any thing that is in heauen aboue or in the earth beneath c. Thou shalt not bow downe to them nor worship them c. This is it that galleth him to the soule this is it that vexeth him in behalfe of his faire and religious pictures that no bowing downe no holy and religious worship may bee done to them But it is nothing to vs that wee offend him God himselfe who said of his Commandements b Deut. 6.9 Thou shalt write them vpon the postes of thine house and vpon thy gates did not thinke it Ale-house fashion to haue them written vpon Church-walles but that we should set vp Altars and Images in our Churches wee doe not finde any warrant to haue come from him His last exception is very idle It was the ancient custome of Christians to pray with their faces towards the East So is it ours also as appeareth vsually in all our Churches Yea but our Ministers in their highest mysteries looke into the South Well and so is it alleaged by Bishop Iewell that c Bish Iewel Replie art 3. Diuis 26. at this day in the great Churches at Millaine Naples Lions Mentz and Rome and in the Church of Saint Laurence in Forence the Priest in his seruice standeth towards the West hauing his face full vpon the people and that heereupon Durand saith that in such places the Priest needeth not to turne himselfe round when he saith Dominus vobiscum and saluteth the people as otherwise hee is woont to doe And why not our Ministers towards the South as well as theirs towards the West Will he haue vs to conclude heereof that their religion is now declining and going downe If not let him acknowledg then the folly of his owne collection that our spirituall state is now at the highest and that in our religion there is no hope of rising towards heauen but assurance of declining Albeit I must aduertise him briefely that true religion wherby the Sunne of righteousnesse shineth vnto vs and whereby we rise to heauen hath beene subiect to such condition to bee sometimes rising sometimes at the height and sometimes declining againe yea sometimes woonderfully eclipsed and hidden in a maner quite out of sight yet notwithstanding it neuer had such a fall but that as the sunne it hath had a time to rise againe But the whore of Babylon the persecutour of true religion albeit she haue flattered herselfe in the security of her state and said of herselfe d Reuel 18.7 I sit like a Queene and am no widow and shall see no mourning yet shee hath begun to fall and notwithstanding the props and staies that her louers vse to hold her vp shall fall daily more and more neuer to rise againe God hauing so foretold vs that e Vers 21. as a milstone shee shal be cast with violence into the sea thencefoorth to be found no more 21. W. BISHOP I may not heere omit that of late yeeres they haue caused the Kings armes to be set vp in the place where Christs armes the Crucifix was wont to stand the which I confesse would haue graced their Church better if it had beene elsewhere placed But I hope they will giue mee leaue to aske them how they durst set vp any such Images in their Churches as be in that armes For they haue taught hitherto that it is expresly against the second commandement and a kinde of Idolatry not only to worship Images but also to set them vp in Churches and yet now as it were cleane for getting themselues they fall into that fault themselues that they haue so much blamed in others Neither will it helpe them to say that they reprooued only the setting vp of holy pictures but not of others For the second commandement as they expound it is aswell against the one as the other forbidding generally the making of any kinde of Image And is it not a pitifull blindnesse to thinke that the pictures of Lions and Liberts do better become the house of God than the Image of his owne Son and of his faithfull seruants And may not simple people thinke when they see Christs armes cast downe and the Princes set vp in their place that there dwell men who make more account of their Princes honour then they doe of Christs And that their meeting in that place call it what you will is rather to serue their Prince than to serue Christ But I haue beene longer in their place of praier than I thought R. ABBOT The King is a great mote in M. Bishops eie and therefore he could not heere passe by without a quarrell to the Kings armes The Kings armes lawfully set vp in our Churches and not popish images We haue placed hee saith the Kings armes where Christs armes the Crucifixe was woont to stand But who made M. Bishop a herauld to assigne armes to Christ and that without any priuity or liking of Christ himselfe Did Christ euer tell him or any man else that he meant to giue a Crucifixe for his armes This is a fantasticall imagination neither did Christ take course by a picture but by the word of the Gospell to be a Gal. 3.1 described before our eies as crucified amongst vs. But if the
all things M. Bishop is very like to that ill-fauoured witch Comparison of the English and Romish Clergie hauing his eies open abroad with vs to see euerie default but being blinde at home and not discerning the abominable filthinesse and beastly sluttery of the house wherein hee himselfe dwelleth I doubt not but hee is a man of a naughtie mind to speak contrary to that that he thinketh but I doe not hold him so very a foole as that he thinketh any part of the Clergie of the church of Rome woorthy to bee compared to the Clergy of the Church of England Somewhat happily he meaneth to that purpose when he saith The whole corps I will not touch thereby importing that he taketh his aduantage of some vnsufficient and euill disposed men and by them seeketh to cast some aspersion of infamy vpon all the rest But we know that b 2. Tim. 2.20 in a great house are not onely vessels of gold and of siluer but also of wood and of stone some to honor and some to dishonor and that not onely in other callings but in the ministerie it selfe as c Matth 10.4 Iudas amongst the twelue apostles as d Act. 6.5 Reu. 2.15 Nicolas amongst the seuen Deacons as the e Act. 20.30 sect-makers which the Apostle foretold should arise from amongst the Elders of the Church of Ephesus as in all times there haue beene not onely true Pastors which feed the sheepe but also f Ioh. 10.12 hirelings which g Rom. 16.18 serue their owne bellies and h Ezec. 34.2 feed themselues and i Ioh. 10.1.10 theeues who enter into the sheepefold not by the doore but by the window and k Esay 56.10 blinde watchmen l Matt. 15.14 blinde guides who lead the blinde into the ditch It is no maruell therefore if amongst vs there be some euen de extremis populi of the very basest of the people who by stealth and sinister practise through either the negligence or corruption of some to whom the care thereof is committed contrary to lawes orders in that behalfe prouided doe creepe into the Ministery of the church make that their refuge for a liuing because being idle beasts and slow bellies they haue no other meanes thereof and therefore hauing the curse of the sonnes of Eli lying vpon them are ready m 1. Sa. 2.36 to bow downe for a peece of siluer and for a morsell of bread and for forty shillings a yeere to take vpon them the seruice of a Church These are likely men for simoniacall patrons cheaters of churches to deal withal being most likely to fil their hands as M. Bishop saith with feeling commodity for the obteining of benefices which by merit and desert they cannot atteine vnto Yea of Preachers also with whom he saith he wil not meddle for feare of offence yet we know coÌ„fesse that there are not wanting some who haue more learning than conscience do dishonour the calling by which they receiue honour n 1. Sam. 2.30 whom God will despise because they haue despised him Menno therfore whom he citeth might see some cause to complaine of certaine or some preachers accordingly as of old the Prophets taxed the enormities and abuses o â—sa 56.10.11 Ier. 2.8 of the Priests and Prophets albeit who or whence he was I know not or what occasion there was of speaking that which he doth he was of another countrey and that that hee saith appertaineth not to vs. But what are all these things to the botches and sores of the Church of Rome how spotlesse is our Clergie in comparison of theirs Hee that would pull their Popes out of their kennels and lead them along in shew should set foorth such a generation of moÌ„sters as the world saue them hath neuer seene the like Their Cardinals were such as that Clemangis saith of them that p Clemang de corrupto eccl statu Si artifex quisque vellet superbiae simulachruÌ„ effingère nulla congruentius ratione id facere posset quà m Cardinalis effigiem oculis intuentium obiectando c. Quis immensam inextricabilem voraginem ipsorum concupiscentiae verbis aequare valeat c. Beneficia possident non quidem duo vel tria decem vel viginti sed centena ducentena interdum vsque ad quadringenta vel quingenta aut amplius nec perua vel tenuia sed omnium pinguissima optima c. Quantumcunque ad numerum â—ue summam venerint ad ampliorem festinant if a man would set foorth a picture of pride he could not more fitly doe it than by the picture of a Cardinal that no man could by words expresse the vnmeasurable and bottomlesse gulfe of their couetous desire not being contented with two or three benefices or ten or twenty but hauing a hundred two hundred yea foure or fiue hundred and aboue and those not small ones but the fattest and best and how many soeuer they had yet gaping still for more Which insatiable couetousnesse of theirs was so grosse and infamous as that the Pope himselfe Benedict the twelfth being mooued to make more Cardinals answered q Illyric Catalog test verit p. 447. Libentèr seâ—d facturum si modò nouum mundum creare posset nam hunc qui iam existat vix praesentibus Cardinalibus sufficere that he would so doe if he could make another world but that this world was scant enough for the Cardinals that were made already Clemangis further noteth how r Clemang vt supra Quis nesciat sectionis schismaticae horrendam pestem per nequitiam Cardinalium in ecclesiae gremium iniectam c. Transeo Sâ—moniacas apud papam interâ—essiones patrocinia venalia corruptiones aut promotiones turpissimas damnatissimas quae omnes ferè istis authoribus suasoribus fiebant c. Nec enumerare volo corum adulteria stupra fornicationes quibus RomanaÌ„ curiam etiam nunc incestant c. Necrefero vsuras c. qua ex causa nummularios supremae tabulae non incongruentèr eos quidam vocant by their wickednesse horrible chisme was brought into the Church he mentioneth their Simoniacall intercessions to the Pope their selling of their fauours for mony their most shamefull and damnable corruptions the adulteries whoredomes and fornications wherewith they defiled the court of Rome their vsury in the highest degree As touching their Bishops hee reporteth that Å¿ Ibid. in sâ—q Nalli eruditi virs nulli probi iusti virtuâ—si ad suprema dign tatum fafiigia veniebaÌ„t seâ— ambitiosi quique adulatores histrionici ommbus vitijs imbuts Quotusquisque bodiè est ad Pontificale culmen â—uectus qui sacras velperfunctoriè literas legerit audierit didicerit imò qui sacruÌ„ codicem nisi tegumento tenui vnquam attigerit cùm tamen iureiurando illas in sua institutione se nosse coÌ„firment no learned men none good iust vertuous atteined to
seruice M. Bishop sheweth himselfe to be a man of a leaud and dishonest tongue that will make any comparison of the Church of Rome to our Church And thus we are come to an end of his long preface wherein what mature iudgement he hath shewed concerning a matter of so great moment it remaineth for the Reader to iudge for my part I iudge he did very ill bestow his time in blotting so many papers with so much folly and vntruth But his transition is woorthy to be noted Now to the rest of his questions saith he according to his own â—â—â—der whereas of twelue questions consequently handled by M. Perkins he speaketh not a word but onely passeth to an aduertisement in the end where hee thought least harme might befall to him Heere is some want of plaine dealing which may iustly cause his Reader to bee suspicious and doubtfull of him A confutation to D. BISHOPS answer to Master PERKINS his Aduertisement W. PERKINS An aduertisement to all fauourers of the Roman religion shewing as he weeneth that the said Religion is against the Catholike principles of the Catechisme that hath beene agreed vpon euer since the daies of the Apostles by all Churches Which principles be foure The Apostles Creed the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the institution of two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords Supper 1. COR. 11. v. 23. 1. W. BISHOP I Had once determined to haue wholly omitted this goodly post-script because it containeth in manner nothing else but an irkesome repetition of that which hath beene I will not say twice before but more than twenty times handled ouer and ouer in this former small treatise notwithstanding considering both how ready many are when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and also for that these pointes heere reiterated are the most odious that he could cull out of all the rest to vrge against vs I finally resolued to giue them a short answer And further also by prouing their new religion to be very opposite vnto those old grounds of the true religion to requite him with the like that I die not in his debt Thus he beginneth The Roman religion established by the Councell of Trent is in the principall points thereof against the very grounds of the Catechisme the Creede the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the two Sacraments THe Catholike religion embraced and defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul fifteene hundred yeeres before the Councell of Trent and hath been euer sithence by the Bishops of Rome their lawfull successours constantly retained and most sincerely obserued and maintained some articles thereof called into question by the Heretikes of this latter age were in that most learned generall Councell of Trent declared and defined And great meruaile it were if the principall points thereof should be against the grounds of the Catechisme which is in euery point most substantially expounded by the decree and order of the very same Councell Or is it credible that the Church of Rome with which all other ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree and which hath beene euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions should in the principall points of faith crosse and destroy the very principles of that religion that hath been agreed vpon by all Churches euer since the Apostle daies as he saith Is it not much more likely and probable that the Protestants who slander all Churches euer since the time of the Apostles with some kinde of corruption or other and who hold no kinde of Apostolicall tradition to be necessary is not not I say more credible that they should shake those grounds of faith which come by tradition from the Apostles and haue beene euer since by all Churches agreed vpon I suppose that few men of any indifferent iudgement can thinke the contrary R. ABBOT M. Bishop is desirous to seeme to haue omitted nothing because many saith he are ready when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and yet he hath cunningly omitted the handling of twelue questions as I haue already noted which are more than the third part of the booke which he vndertooke to answer In that which here he hath sent vs he taketh vpon him as to answer M. Our religion and not Popery is the old religion Perkins so by way of requitall to prooue that our new religion as he calleth it is very opposite vnto the old grounds of the true religion But if his eies were open he would easily see that that new religion and the true religion are all one our new religon as to him it seemeth being indeed no other but that onely true religion whereby all the faithfull haue been saued from the beginning and so shal be to the worlds end And if he will haue our religion to be taken for a new religion he must first impeach those grounds of antiquitie wherby we haue hitherto iustified the same against his vaine and wilfull cauilations As for that which he saith that the religion now defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul it is the begging of the question a fond presumption an idle headed dreame who but fooles and madde men beleeue it when they see the writings of the Apostles Peter and Paul and therein finde no mention of the religion that is now at Rome neither of the Pope nor of Purgatorie nor Pardons nor Iubilies nor Masse nor Images nor any other of that filth If the successors of that See had constantly reteined the faith that by the Apostles was deliuered we should now haue that religion at Rome which is taught in the Epistle to the Romanes which now is our religion and was then the religion of the church of Rome Of that religion those heretikes whom no otherwise he so nameth but according to the a Act. 24.14 Iewish phrase called nothing into question they only questioned impugned those additions and alterations wherewith the church of Rome hath defiled and disgraced that religion The Councel of Trent a mockerie of the world The Councell of Trent which declared and defined against them was neither learned nor generall It was a base and a vile collusion and meere mockerie of the world partially assembled by the Pope guilefully managed by his Agents directed wholly by his intelligence nothing there to bee concluded but what hee first approued yet all in sine left at his will by that damnable clause neuer heard of in any former Councel b Conc. Trid. sess 7. in princip sess 25. cap. 21. de reformat Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Sauing alwaies and in all things the authoritie of the See Apostolike Some Diuines there were of qualitie and worth who gaue their assistance in that businesse but as for the Bishops of which
and bring all things to your remembrance that I haue told you and which he saith presently after i cap. 16.14 He shall glorifie me for he shall receiue of mine and shall shew it vnto you For hereby it is manifest that the holy Ghost which shall leade vs into all truth because he shall speake nothing of himselfe shall therefore k Thophylact in Ioan. 16. Nihil docturus est extra ea quae Christus docuit speake nothing but what Christ hath before spoken As therefore when Christ saith of himselfe l Ioh. 14.10 I speake not of my selfe hee would import that he spake nothing but what the father had before spoken in the Scriptures of the Law and the Prophets as m Chrysost de sanct orando spiritu Quia seductor est habitus dicit Ego à meipso non loquor sed de lege de Prophet is Chrysostome expoundeth it euen so when he saith of the holy Ghost that he shall speake nothing of himselfe we are likewise to conceiue that the holy Ghost shall teach nothing but what Christ himselfe hath first taught in the Scriptures of the Euangelists and Apostles Whereupon we conclude as Chrysostome doth n Ibid. Siquem videritis dicentem spiritum sanctum habee non loquentem Euangelica sed propria is à seipso loquitur non est spiritus sanctus in ipso Et paulò post Siquis eorum qui dicuntur habere spiritum sanctum dicat aliquid à seipso non ex Euangelijs ne credite c. Ex quo non legit haec scripta sed ex seipso loquitur manifestum est quod non habet spiritum sanctum If yee see a man saying I haue the holy Ghost and not speaking the things of the Gospell but matters of his owne he speaketh of himselfe and the holy Ghost is not in him If any of them who are said to haue the holy Ghost do speake any thing of himselfe and not out of the Gospell beleeue him not For that he readeth not those things which he saith in the Scriptures it is manifest that he hath not the holy Ghost Now therefore seeing M. Bishops church contrary to the ordinance of God seuereth o Esay 59.21 the spirit of truth from p Eph. 1 13. Col. 1.5 the word of truth and speaketh many things of her-felfe whereof Christ hath said nothing whereof wee reade nothing in the Scriptures it is manifest that they play the Sycophants as other heretikes haue done pretending to speake by the spirit of Christ when they speake wholly either by their owne or by a woorse spirit But M. Bishop not content with one corruption in substituting his church of Rome in the place of the Catholike Church of Christ addeth another in saying that that article of our Creede doth teach vs to beleeue the Catholike church Which words although being truely meant they expresse the same in English which wee say in Greeke and Latin yet being by the drift of his speech caried to a verie partiall and false construction doe shew him to be a leaud peruerter of our Christian faith For whereas we saie Credo sanctam ecclesiam Catholicam in the accusatiue case the meaning is I beleeue that there is a holy Catholike church namely that God the Father in all ages and at all times and amidst all the defections and corruptions of the world hath still had and shall haue his number of elect and chosen people to whom the benefite of Christs death and resurrection on standeth effectuall and good by the sanctification of the holy Ghost and the same now not of one nation or people onely but of all nations and peoples thorowout the whole world But M. Bishop by the currant of his speech turneth the accusatiue case into the datiue as if it were said in our Creed Credo ecclesiae sanctae Catholicae I giue credit to the holy Catholike church I beleeue it to be true whatsoeuer is taught me by the holy Catholike church that so his Reader thinkeing himselfe bound to beleeue the Catholike church and taking this Catholike church to be meant of the church of Rome may hold himselfe bound by the articles of his Creed in all things to beleeue the church of Rome Thus he and his fellowes most treacherously and leaudly against their owne knowledge and conscience delude simple and ignorant soules and make them slaues to their impious and wicked deuices by bearing them in hand that they are bound thus to obey the Catholike church Now heereof Master PERKINS iustly inferreth that the eternall truth of God the Creatour is heereby made to depend vpon the determination of the creature For let God say what he will wee shall not stand bound to take it for truth if the church shall say the contrary or vnlesse that which he saith be approoned by the Church Verily as Tertullian vpbraided of old the Senate of Rome that q Tertul. Apologet cap. 5. Apud vos de humano arbitratu diuinitas pensitatur nisi homini deus placuerit deus non erit with them Godhead stood at the discretion of men and vnlesse God did please man he should be no God so may it well be said now of the church of Rome that with them the religion of God standeth at their discretion and that onely shall be religion that pleaseth them For the Bishop of Rome whilest hee taketh vpon him to make declaration of Christian faith maketh what he list of Christian faith and hath verified of himselfe that which Hierome said of Antichrist that r Hieron in Daniel 7. Eleuatur supra omne quod dicitur deu◠cunctam religionem suae subijciens potestati he should subiect all religion to his owne power For the colouring of which iniquity M. Bishop according to their maner vseth guilefull words of notable hypocrisie and with a faire tale gloseth a grosse indignity and damnable presumption against God He telleth vs that Gods truth is sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the Church Well and what hath the church then to doe with this sincere and certaine truth Forsooth we poore creatures are subiect to mistaking and errour and doe not so certainly vnderstand that truth of God But who are those poore creatures of whom he speaketh Marry M. Bishop and such other petites who are but dij minorum gentium they are poore creatures but the Pope and his Cardinals and the Bishops that comply to him they are rich creatures they are the Church they are exempted from mistaking and errour we must thinke all perfection of wit to be lodged in their braines and that they certainely vnderstand and know the truth of God But what assurance can they giue vs in this behalfe Surely the Scribes and Pharisees the high Priests and Elders of the lewes had as much to say for themselues and a great deale more than they They could plead for themselues ſ Ioh. 8.33 We are the
Rom. 8 11. quickened by his spirit h Rom 5.19 iustified by his obedience i 2 Cor. 1.22 Ehâ— 1.13.14 2. Tim. 2.19 sealed to the remssion of sinnes and euerlasting life That God hath such a people we beleeue it we see it not neither can our eies discerne who they are that appertaine to this number it being one of the proper emblemes of Gods honour j The Lord knoweth who are his In this sort doe we in the articles of our Creede professe to beleeue the holy Catholike church That there is a church also visible no man denieth no man doubteth nay we affirme that it is amidst that church which wee see that God gathereth vnto himselfe that church which we cannot see And to speake of this visible church also we cannot see it to be Gods church or that it is Gods word that there is preached or that they are the Sacraments of Christ which are there administred or that there is any fruit or benefite to be reaped thereby We see these things done but the estimation of them is a matter of faith and not of fight we see the persons but we do not by our eies perceiue them to be that that they take vpon them to be But being by faith instructed that these things are of God or professing so to be beleeue we discerue by hearing and seeing who they are to whom we are to adioine our selues for the exercise of our faith So then the church is both visible and inuisible visible as touching the persons visible as touching open assemblies and exercises but not visible to bee the church of God for then Iewes and heathens would see so much and would leaue to persecute which now they doe not because they haue no faith and the church is no otherwise knowen so to be but onely by faith Now what saith M. Bishop to hurt any thing that we say The persons saith he in the Catholike church are visible but their indowments are inuisible Well and men are not true members of the true church by being such and such persons but by hauing such and such inward indowments and therfore though they bee visible as touching their persons yet they are not visible as true members of the church The church therefore which wee professe to beleeue which consisteth in them that are the true members of the visible church must needs be granted to be inuisible Yea I say further that men are not at all members of the visible church by being such and such persons but by profession of the faith and name of Christ and participation of his Sacraments And therfore M. Bishop doth much amisse to compare visible persons and inward qualities with the body the soule because to be a visible person is not to be in part a member of the church as the body is part of a man for then euery Turke and Infidell might be said to be in part a member of the church because he is a man but outward acceptance of the faith and visible communion with the church maketh a man outwardly a member thereof and is as it were the body the life and soule wherof is the inward grace of the spirit whereby he is indeed to the eies of God that which outwarly he seemeth to bee to the eies of men But a further difference also there is for that the soule though in it selfe it be inuisible yet is certainly perceiued and discerned by the actions and motions of the body and therefore well may a man be said to be visible as a man though as touching the soule it selfe he be inuisible whereas there are no such actions or motions of a member of the visible church whereby the eie of man can certainely see that hee hath life within or is spiritually the same to God that outwardly he giueth semblance to men to be Because therefore the true members of the church are not to be discerned with the eie it followeth that the church properly so called consisting of those true members is visible to God onely 7. W. BISHOP His last obiection against vs out of the Creed is That the articles of remission of sinnes resurrection of the body and life euerlasting containe a confession of speciall faith For the meaning of them is thus much I beleeue the remission of mine owne sinnes and the resurrectition of mine owne body to life euerlasting Answer That is not the meaning vnlesse you adde some conditions to wit I beleeue the remission of my sinnes if I haue duly vsed the meanes ordained by our Sauiour for the remission of them which is after Baptisme the Sacrament of Penance Item I beleeue I shall haue life euerlasting if I keepe as Christ willed the yong-man to keepe Gods commandements or at the least if I doe die with true repentance Now whether I haue done or shall doe these things required of me I am not so well assured as that I can beleue it for I may be deceiued therein but I haue or may haue a very goood hope by the grace of God to performe them Neither is there any more to be gathered out of Saint Augustine as some of the words by himselfe heere alleaged doe conuince For he requireth besides faith that we turne from our sinnes conforme our will to Gods will and abide in the lap of the Catholike church and so at length we shall be healed See the question of certainty of saluation Note also by the way the vncertainty of of M. PER. doctrine concerning this point for he holdeth that it is not necessary to haue a certaine perswasion of our owne saluation Pag. 2â—0 275. but that it is sufficient to haue a desire to haue it and that doctrine he putteth there as he saith himselfe to expound the Chatechismes that propound faith at so high reach as few can attaine vnto yet heere and elsewhere the goodman forgetting himselfe chargeth vs to crosse the Creed because we doe not wrest faith vp to so high a straine and so in heate of quarelling often expoundeth this contrary to his owne rule Now for proofe of S. Augustines opinion heerein whom he onely citeth take these two sentences for the two points be speaketh of For the first that we be certaine by ordinary faith of our saluation let this serue Of life euerlasting which God that cannot lie hath promised to his children De bono perseuer cap. 22. De correct grat cap. 13. no man can be secure and out of danger before his life be ended which is a tentation vpon earth Secondly that a man once truely iustified may afterward fall We must beleeue saith this holy father that certaine of the children of perdition doe liue in faith that worketh by charity and so doe for a time liue faithfully and iustly they were then truly iustified and yet afterward doe fall and that finally because be calleth them the children of perdition Thus much in answere vnto that which M. PER. obiecteth
cap. 3. Et nuncille viuit in sinu Abraham He now liueth in Abrahams bosome Now then we are come to this that because Abrahams bosome is in heauen and Christs descending to hell was no other but his going to Abrahams bosome therefore the meaning of Christs descending into hell is that hee ascended vp to heauen It were well that they should first cleere these matters for themselues and make good their owne assertion before they should take in hand to question ours Whatsoeuer the meaning bee of Christs desecending into hell we are sure that that which they bring is vaine and false Now the article of Christs descending into hell being according to their exposition impertinent and idle and no vse to bee made thereof in the Creede some in respect thereof haue thought the same to haue crept into it of latter time and not to haue beene there from the beginning and some it may be for I know it not neither dare I take M. Bishops word for it haue quite omitted it in the Creed Neither doe they want inducements heereunto from the ancient church in which there are many Creedes and confessions of faith in which there is no mention of Christs descending into hell And heerein we are to note Doct. Bishop to be a man singularly impudent who alleageth the article to be in the old Roman Creed expounded by Ruffinus whereas the words of Ruffinus himselfe doe expressely affirme the contrary n Ruffin in exposit symb Apost Sciendum sanè est quòd in ecclesiae Romanae symbolo non habetur additum Descenditad inferna sed neque in Orientis ecclesiis habetur hic sermo We are to know saith he that in the Creed of the Roman church it is not added that he descended into hell neither are those words vsed by the Easterne churches The Nicene Creed saith nothing of it which in likelihood would not haue omitted it if it had beene found in the ancienter Creed of the Apostles Saint Austin hath o Tom. 9. de symb vel reg fidei ad Catechumenos foure expositions of the Creed in one place and p Tom. 3. de fide symbolo one in another and in none of these expositions is it found that Christ descended into hell Tertullian hath q Tertul. de praescript adu Praxean de veland virginib three declarations of the rule of faith and this point is not found in any of them Neither doth Ireneus mention it where r Iren. adu heres lib. 1. c. 2. lib. 3. cap. 4. twice he expresseth the Apostolike faith There is a confession of faith set downe by Å¿ Synod Roma tom 1. Concil a Synod at Rome in the time of Iulius the first another in the t Concil Constantin 1 cap. 7. first Councel of Constantinople another in a Councell at u Synod Aleuand apud Cyril in Concitio Ephes Alexandria confirmed by the Councel of Ephesus and many other moe wherein there is nothing said of Christs descending into hell Thus from many examples and authorities of the ancient church those men parhaps thinke that they haue warrant to leaue out that article without being culpable of any violation of Christian faith And although Athanasius and sundry other in their writings haue deliuered this as a point of faith yet they hold that those acts and instruments of publicke recognition which are very frequent to this purpose do ouerwaigh priuate iudgements and are sufficient to excuse or defend that that is done by them But for our parts wee see no sufficient reason to moue vs to follow them herein We see diuers phrases of Scripture tending to the assertion of this article of our beleefe We read our Sauiour Christ professing his reioycing to his Father x Acts. 2.27 Psal 16.10 for that he would not leaue his soule in hell which is vainely spoken if the soule of Christ were not at all in hell Therefore we admit the article and in the confession of our faith we alwaies recite it neither doth any man make question to doe otherwise But M. Bishop excepteth against the variety of expositions that are found amongst vs concerning the same And what is there no variety of expositions thereof to be found amongst them Doe they all so accord in one as that we can obserue no difference of one from another first that learned deuout Authour Durand as M. Bishop y Preface to the Reader sect 5. before hath stiled him doth hold that z Durand apud Bellarm. de Christianima cap. 15. Christ descended not into hell at all by reall presence but only by effect and power a Tho. Aquin. sum p. 3. q. 52. art 2. in concl Christus secundùm effectum in omnem inferâ—â— locum descendit secùndum verò substantialem praesentiâ—m non descendit nisi ad locum iustorum Thomas Aquinas determineth that by reall presence he went onely to Limbus Patrum but to the other parts of hell he descended by vertue and power Bellarmine setteth it down for b Bellarm. de Christianima c. 16. Probabile est profectò animam Christi ad omnia inferni loâ—a descendisse probable that the soule of Christ did verily descend to all the places of hell Thomas Aquinas resolueth that c Tho. Aqui. vt supra art 4. in concl Animam Christi tamdiu fuisse in inferno credendum est quamdin corpus fuit in sepulchro the soule of Christ was so long in hell as his body was in the graue and so they commonly hold as did Vigilius of old d Vig. â—o Eutyc lib. 2. Anima Christi per illud triduum in inferno that for those three daies space the soule of Christ was in hell But S. Austin holdeth it a thing impious to be affirmed e Augst cont Felic Arian ca. 15. Si mortuo corpore ad paradisum anima latronis mox vocatur quenquamnè adhuc tam impium credimus qui dicere audeat quoniam anima saluatoris nostri triduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur that the soule of the theefe being foorthwith called to Paradise the soule of our Sauiour should for the three daies space of his bodily death be in custody in hell Thomas Aquinas is of opinion that f Thom. Aquin. sum pa. 3. qu. 52. art 1. in corp Conueniens fuit Christen ad infernum descendere quia ipse venerat portare poenas nostras vt nos a poena eriperet ex peccatâ— autem homo incurrerat non solum mortem corporis sed etiam descensum ad inseros it behooued that Christ should goe to hell because he came to beare our punishments so to deliuer vs from the same and we by sinne had incurred not onely bodily death but also going to hell But Bonauenture saith and to him Bellarmine inclineth that g Bellerm de Christi anima cap. 16. ex Bonauentura Dicit Christi animam
to the Father and the Son that we make the holy Ghost much inferiour to the other persons And how may that appeare Marry in their French Catechismes they teach saith he that the Father alone is to bee adored in the name of his sonne But what because they say the Father alone must they needes be taken to exclude the holy Ghost Hath he not so much diuinity as to know that the name of the Father is sometimes vsed for distinction of persons sometimes indefinitely of God without any such distinction When our Sauiour saith a Matt. 23.9 One is your Father who is in heauen doth not the name of Father there extend to God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost Doth it not so also where the Apostel saith b Eph. 4 6. There is one God and Father of all who is aboue all and through all and in you all Doth M. Bishop otherwise vnderstand it when he saith Our Father which art in heauen Surely the French Catechisme may say as he rereporteth who yet seldome reporteth truth yet import nothing therby but what Origen saith ChristiaÌ„s of old did namely c Origen cont Cels â— 8 Christiani soli Deo per Iesum preces offerentes to offer praiers to God only by Iesus or in the name of Iesus The next cauil against Calum is of the same kind that the title of Creatour belongeth only to the Father Which M. Bishop might well haue vnderstood in the distinctioÌ„ of the persoÌ„s by their seueral attributes as d Calu. Opus in Explicat perfidiae Valent. Gâ—ntil Certè vnâ— consensu fatemur Christum impropriè vocari creatorem coeli terrae quoad personae distinctionem Neque enim dubium est quin seriptura patri nomen Creatoris vendicans personas distinguat Caluin setteth it down to be very true and the rather for that in the very articles of the Creed he findeth it so applied I beleeue in God the Father almighty maker of heauen and earth For although it be true which S. Austin oftentimes deliuereth that e August de praedest sanctor cap. 8. Inseparabilia dicimus â—sse opera Trinitatis the workes of the Trinity are inseparable and in the act of any of the persons is the concurrence of all yet they so concurre as that they retaine therein their seuerall proprieties so as that of seuerall actions arise seuerall denominations which in common phrase of speech are vsed as in some specialty belonging to one person rather than another As therefore we attribute it to the sonne alone to haue redeemed vs and to the holy Ghost alone to sanctifie vs albeit both the Father and the holy Ghost had their worke in our redemption and the Father and the Sonne haue their worke also in sanctifying vs euen so to the Father alone the title of Creatour is applied not but that the Sonne and the holy Ghost haue their worke in the creation but because f Origen cont Cels lib. 8. Dicimus immediatum opificeâ— esse fiâ—um dei verbum c. Verâ— autâ—m patrem curus mandato munduâ— sit per ipsum filium conditus esse primarium opincem the Father is the primary or principall worker as Origen saith at whose commandement the world was created by the Sonne and g Hilar. de Synod adu Aria Si suis vnum dicens deum Christum autem deum ante secula filium dei obsecutum patri in creatione omnium non confitetur anathema sit wherein as the Syrmian Councel saith and Hilary approoueth the Sonne did obedience to the Father As for the rest that he heere quarelleth at that the Father is called the first degree and cause of life and the Sonne the second and againe that the father holdeth the first ranke of honour and gouernment and the sonne the second not to question the truth of his allegations I would in a word aske his wisdome doth he that saith that the Father is the first person in Trinity and the Sonne the second deny thereby the holy Ghost to be the third or doth hee hereby exclude the holy Ghost from hauing part with the Father and the Sonne Doth the Apostle when in his epistles he saith h Rom. 1 7. 1. Cor. 1.3 et in reliq Grace and peace from God our Father and from our Lord Iesus Christ doth he I say exclude heereby the holy Ghost from being the authour of grace and peace or from hauing part with the Father and the Sonne Or when he saith i 2. Cor. 1.3 Ephe 1.3 Blessed be God euen the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ doth he deny the Sonne and the holy Ghost to be blessed and praised together with the Father If he doe not why then doth this idle headed Sophister thus take exception where there is nothing for him iustly to except against Forsooth at most saith he the holy Ghost must be content with the third degree of honour But what M. Bishop doe not you also place the holy Ghost in the third degree when you name him the third person Doth not your head serue you to vnderstand degree of order only without imparity or minority as all Diuines in this case are woont to do But why doe I thus contend with a blinde buzzard a wilfull and ignorant wrangler and not rather reiect him as a man worthy to be altogether contemned and derided He hath k Preface to the Reader sect 7. before cited the latter of these words to shew that Caluin made the Sonne of God inferiour to the Father but how leaudly he dealeth in the alleaging of it and to how small purpose it is there declared there is no cause here to speake thereof 12. W. BISHOP 9. one I beleeue the holy Catholike Church the communion of Saints First where as there is but on Catholike church as the Councel of Nice expresly defineth following sundry texts of the word of God they commonly teach that there be two churches one inuisible of the elect another visible of both good and bad holy Secondly they imagine it to be holy by the imputation of Christs holinesse to the elected Bretheren and not by the infusion of the holy Ghost into the hearts of all the faithfull Catholike Thirdly they cannot abide the name Catholike in the true sense of it that is they will not beleeue the true Church to haue beene alwaies visibly extant since the Apostles time and to haue beene generally spread into all countries otherwise they must needes forsake their owne church which began with Friar Luther and is not receiued generally in the greatest part of the Christian world Finally they beleeue no Church no not their owne in all points of faith but hold that the true Church may erre in some principall points of faith How then can any man safely relie his saluation vpon the credite of such an vncertaine ground and erring guide may they not then as well say that they
saluationem tametsi erroneam hominem posse mereri per fidem erroneam etsi contingat vt adoret diabolū that the faith of a lay man worshipping an Host that is not consecrated though it be an erroneous faith yet sufficeth to saluation and that a man by an erroneous faith may merit although it fall out that he worship the diuell This speech is strange but yet M. Bishop now by his distinction teacheth vs how it may very wel stand because though a man materially worship the diuell yet by his intention hee doth formally worship God Now what ill happe had Ieroboam that he was not acquainted with these Romish schoole-trickes for he might well haue answered both for himself and for the people that though materially they errēd in the Calues yet their intention was pure and holy to worship the true God and therefore formally they were true worshippers Yea this distinction wil serue to cleere a great part of the idolatries of the Gentiles and Pagans because albeit the diuels did present themselues at their idols and images to receiue the sacrifices deuotions that were there performed as in Popery they haue also done yet this hindred not but that formally they were true worshippers because though they were materially mistaken as before was said in taking the diuell for God yet their formall meaning and intention was to doe seruice to the onely true and immortall God Thus shall they be excused of whom Christ saith d Ioh. 16.2 The time will come that whosoeuer killeth you will thinke that he doth God seruice Which many vndoubtedly thought in the crucifying of Christ being formally e Act. 22.3 zealous towards God but f Luk. 23.34 not knowing materially what they did So S. Austin saith of the Donatists g Aug. epist 48. Arbitrabantur se pro ecclesiae dei facere quicquid inquieta temeritate faciebant Whatsoeuer they did in their turbulent rashnesse and furie they thought they did it in behalfe of the Church of God The same we say of all schismes and heresies that the followers thereof at least many of them are formally true worshippers of Christ because they haue an vnfained intention and purpose to serue the Lord Iesus Christ howsoeuer materially they be mistaken in some things Thus doth M. Bishop make a hotch-potch and mixture of all religions and by his distinction of materialitèr and formalitèr a man may in any religion bee a true worshipper of God because hee may haue a zealous intention to serue God But if his learning and vnderstanding did not faile him he would remember that h Ioh. 4.23 the true worshippers doe worship God not onely formally in spirit but also materially in truth It was the religion of the Samaritanes i Ibid. vers 22. to worship they knew not what but the religion of the true Iewes of whom was saluation was to know what they did worship Our Sauiour would thereby instruct vs that there is no saluation where men worship they know not what God hath reueiled vnto vs the knowledge of himselfe and of his will that thereby we may be directed to serue him In this k Ioh. 17.3 knowledge is eternall life but l Os◠4.6 in the want of knowledge is perdition and destruction Intention zeale is good and in the seruice of God necessarily required but yet our intention and zeale is no other but furie and madnesse and fighting against God if it haue not knowledge to guide it materially in the way of God Now if it be idolatrie to worship that for God which is no God and yet it followeth not that God is heereby stiled an Idoll then surely it is likewise Idolatrie to worship the Sacrament vnder the name of the body of Christ when it is not the bodie of Christ and yet we doe not thereby stile our Sauiour Iesus Christ an idoll as hee fondly obiecteth against vs for blasphemie in the highest degree 19. W. BISHOP His third obiection is out of the fourth Commandement which as he saith giueth a libertie to worke six daies in the ordinarie affaires of our calling which libertie saith be cannot bee repealed by any creature the Church of Rome therefore erreth in that it prescribeth other set and ordinary festiuall daies to be obserued as straightly and with as much solemnitie as the Sabbath of the Lord. Answ Doth not the Church of England also prescribe the Natiuitie of our Sauiour and of S. Iohn Baptist the feasts of the Apostles and many others to be kept holy and command that no man worke in the affaires of their calling those daies doth their owne church also erre therein How say you then to the church of the Israelites which kept the feasts of Easter Whitsontide and of the Tabernacles as straightly and with as much solemnitie as they kept the Lords Sabbath was it also mis-led to the breach of Gods commandements or must we not rather thereby learne that six daies in the weeke were at the first left vs free to labour in but yet so that by the decree and commandement of our spirituall Gouernours any of them might vpon iust occasion be made festiuall and thereupon euery good christian bound to keepe them by their obedience vnto their Gouernours to thinke the contrarie is a high point of Puritanisme R. ABBOT M. Festiuall daies lawfully prescribed by the church Perkins intendeth nothing against the authoritie of the Church for the prescribing of some solemne and festiuall daies but condemneth the church of Rome iustly for prescribing such daies to be obserued as straitly and with as much solemntie he should haue said more straitly and with much more conscience and solemnitie than the Lords Sabbath day Yea it is a thing impious in the Bishop of Rome that hee taketh vpon him to make such daies in themselues a Bellar. de cultu sanct l. 3. ca. 10. Sunt dies festi verè alijs fanctiores sacratiores pars quaedam diuini cultus more sacred and holy than other daies and a part of the very true worship and seruice of God Whereas M. Perkins saith that it is not in the power of any creature to repeale the liberty of working six daies he saith rightly if we vnderstand it of the libertie of conscience for no creature may binde the conscience from the acknowledgement of a lawfulnesse with God to worke all and euery of the six daies in the affaires of our callings but yet in charitie and obedience we yeeld to our gouernours and to our brethren somewhat vpon occasion to refraine our libertie and to forbeare the doing of those things of which notwithstanding we know and are perswaded that in conscience and with God they are free and lawfull to be done 20. W. BISHOP Fourthly saith M. PER. the fift Commandement enioineth children to obey father and mother in all things specially in matters of moment as in their Marriages and choice of their calling
needs confesse themselues to be farre from it which hold that to be impossible and with the principall part of true religion which consisteth in offering a true reall and externall sacrifice vnto God as in that question hath beene prooued they are at vtter defiance R. ABBOT You haue shewed your owne folly M. Bishop and dishonestly The Protestants teach faith hope and charitie aright but for the peruerting of any articles of faith on our side you haue shewed nothing We teach faith hope and charitie as God hath taught them not as your schoole hath newly framed them We teach faith wherby a 1. Io. 5.10.11 to beleeue the record that God witnesseth of his Sonne that God hath giuen vnto vs eternall life and this life is in his Sonne We teach hope whereby b Rom. 8.25 to wait with patience for the reueilling of that which God hath giuen vs. Wee teach charitie whereby to performe c Eph. 2.10 those good works which God hath prepared for vs as the way wherein to walke to the receiuing of it True reall and externall sacrifice for propitiation of sin we teach none but the sacrifice of the passion of Christ because by d Heb. 9.28 10.14 being once offered he hath taken away our sinnes and made perfect for euer them that are sanctified Therefore the sacrifice which he intendeth is no other but sacriledge and idolatrie and because God hath condemned it therefore are we iustly at defiance with it I may not omit how he heere bobbeth his Reader with as in that question hath beene prooued whereas of that question hee hath said iust neuer a word 25. W. BISHOP 2 Touching the second Commandement after our account as God is honoured by swearing in iustice iudgement and truth so he is also by vowes made vnto him of godly and religious duties which the Prophet Dauid signifieth when he saith vow yee Psal 75.13 and render your vowes vnto the Lord your God Heereupon many Catholikes haue and doe continually vow perpetuall pouertie chastirie and obedience the more fully and freely to serue God which holy vowes the Protestants disallow wholly neither doe they allow of any other vowes for ought I haue heard they doe therefore diminish the seruice of God and pare away a part of that which is reduced to the second Commandement R. ABBOT We diminish not the seruice of God because we teach al that the word of God hath taught and with mens deuises God will not be serued Spirituall vowes admitted Popish vowes reiected The true spirituall vowes whereby we consecrate our selues to God we duly approoue but Popish vowes we reiect and detest not onely as superstitious but also as they teach them with opinion of merit and purchase of remission of sinnes for themselues and others most wicked and damnable There needeth heereof nothing more to be said then hath beene before deliuered in the handling of that question 26. W. BISHOP 3. And whereas in the third wee are commanded to keepe holy the Sabaoth day which is principally performed by hearing attentiuely and deuoutly that diuine seruice which was instituted by Christ and deliuered by his Apostles which is the holy Masse they may not abide it but serue God after the inuention of their owne braines with a mingle-mangle of some old some new odly patched together R. ABBOT What Christ instituted appeareth in the Gospell what the Apostles practised and deliuered appeareth by S. Paul holding himselfe entirely to that a 1. Cor. 11.23 which he had receiued of the Lord. What doe wee finde there that doth in any sort resemble the ougly monster of the Popish Masse Gregory Bishop of Rome saith that b Greg. ep l. 7 Indict 2. ep 63. Mos Apostolorum fuit vt ad ipsam solummodo orationem dominicam oblationis hostiam consecrarent the Apostles were woont with the Lords praier only to consecrate the sacred host and shall we then thinke the Apostles to haue been the authours of those gew-gawes and fooleries those turnings and windings and crossings blessings and murmurations and eleuations that are vsed in the Masse Iulius Bishop of Rome the first condemned the dipping of the Sacrament of Christs body in the cup of the bloud of Christ c De cons dist 2. Cum omne Quòd pro complemento communionis intinctam tradunt Eucharistiam populis nec hoc prolatum ex Euangelio testimonium receperunt c. because no witnesse heereof is brought out of the Gospell If nothing be to be done in the celebration of the Sacrament but whereof there is witnesse in the Gospel and d Cyp. l. 2. ep 3. In sacrificio quod Christus est nonnisi Christu sequendus est none as Cyprian saith be to be followed therein but only Christ we haue iust cause to reiect the Masse which hath so little of that that Christ did and so much that he did not The Masse therefore is no sanctifying but a prophaning of the Lords Sabaoth but the true sanctifying of the Sabaoth is in our diuine seruice wherein Gods word is read and taught praier is made to God in the name of Iesus Christ and the Sacraments are administred accordingly as Christ himselfe hath left the same vnto vs. Wherein we haue reteined whatsoeuer the abomination of desolation had left remaining of the ancient seruice of the Church and whatsoeuer was wanting we haue supplied agreeably thereto and to the word of God and no man will account it odly patched together but such odde fellowes as M. Bishop is who are so farre in loue with the Romish harlot as that they like to eat no bread but what is moulded with her vncleane and filthie hands 27. W. BISHOP In the fourth we are commanded to obey our Princes as well as our parents and all other our Gouernours in all lawfull matters yet the Protestants hold that our Princes lawes doe not binde vs in conscience R. ABBOT What Is Saul also amongst the Prophets Princes lawes how they binde in conscience Is M. Bishop now come to speake of obedience to Princes by the problemes of whose religion no Prince shall be obeied if the Pope list by any pretense of religion to picke a quarrell against him nor any matters shall be lawfull for him to command but what must stand with the Popes law Doth he speake of obedience to Princes who because his Prince liketh not to follow his course hath before threatned him a Epist to the king sect 34. God knoweth what that forcible weapon of necessitie will driue men vnto at length When the Fox preacheth beware the Geese To the point I answer him briefely we teach that Princes lawes in things subiect to their command do binde the conscience to externall obedience though not to any spirituall opinion of the things wherein we doe obey And that we doe not denie this he himselfe b Preface to the Reader sect 3. before hath testified for
in it euen as the badde may not abide it R. ABBOT The Protestants doe so well indure to heare the words of Gods spirit as that they haue made speciall choise therof as the principall weapon wherewith to fight against the superstitions and abominations of the Papists Whose absurd dotage as many other waies so in their Aue-Marie most notably appeareth in that of a salutation to the virgin Marie being present they haue made an inuocation of her being absent and thinke it a matter of great merit and deuotion to vse it like a charme by saying it ouer thus or thus many times at once which the Angell spake but once M. Bishop allegeth for it the old Catechismes but he neither telleth vs what Catechismes he meaneth nor how old they are which if he had we should easily haue descried the vanity of his speech For if by old Catechismes he meane as he should the Catechismes of the ancient fathers and primitiue Church he is therein found a liar because in those Catechismes there is nothing of it But if by old Catechisms he meane any that haue beene of latter times vnder the darknesse of Popery he abuseth his Reader who in case of Religion looketh for satisfaction euen from the first age because what was not then a part of religion can be no part of religion now the truth of Christ being one and the same from the beginning and for euer The words he saith are the words of the holy ghost and so say we but we say that the words of the holy ghost may be abused as here they are against the purpose and meaning of the holy Ghost They are the words of the holy Ghost which Christ vsed to the Apostles a Luk. 24.25 Fooles and slow of heart to beleeue all that the Prophets haue spoken and will M. Bishop therfore say that we may vse those words for inuocation of the Apostles He allegeth againe that it is prophecied that all generations should call the virgin Mary blessed and we deny it not but we may call her blessed in the meditations of our own hearts and in speaking of her to them that heare vs though we speake not idlely as to her that heareth vs not Be it that the words were composed by the Archangell penned by the Euangelists commended to the reading of all good Christians as other words of scriptures are be it that the sense of them is most comfortable vnto vs yet what is all this to prooue that these words are to bee vsed for a deuotion and seruice to the virgin Mary specially in such sort as Popery hath vsed them in a strange and vnknowen tongue which could yeeld no comfort of the sense nor remembrance thereby of the incarnation of Christ nor perfourmance of thanksgiuing or congratulation towards God That purest antiquity which he allegeth is but corrupt nouelty and leud forgery The Liturgies of Basill and Chrysostome are very falsly so termed and yet in Basils Liturgie there is no mention of the Aue-Mary Of Chrysostomes Liturgie there are so many different copies published one by Leo Tuscus another by Erasmus another by Pelargus who also testifieth that hee hath seen a fourth as that if Chrysostome did leaue any yet no man is able to say of any of them that this is it The sermon of Athanasius in Euangel de Deipara is by b Nann epist nuncupatoria praefixa oper Athanasij In tertiam classem relegaui omnes supposititios libros quos Athanasij non puto Nannius their own translatour put amongst the ranke of bastards and counterfets The name of Deipara was not so famous in the time of Athanasius as to be prefixed in the title of a sermon neither could it haue wanted memorable testimony in the councell of Ephesus if it had been then knowen for his Ephrems works as c Hieron in Catalog script ecclesiast Multa syro sermone composuit Hierome saith were written in the Syrian tongue If M. Bishop can shew them in the same tongue yea or ancientlie translated into the Greeketongue we can giue the better credit that they are his indeed Otherwise we know that they haue been in hucksters handling neither can we but be suspicious of that iugling and foisting which we finde to haue been so vsuall and common with them And if M. Bishop will haue vs to take it for Ephrems worke let him tell vs who is the translatour of it Gerardus Vossius who translated and published the works of Ephrem by the warrant of Pope Sixtus the fift whereas he putteth his name to so many as hee translated putteth no name to the Sermon which M. Bishop citeth shewing thereby that it is not in Greeke and therefore importing it to be a counterfeit He saith that these can with no more reason be denied to be theirs then the rest of their works But I answer him that though there were no other reason yet it is sufficient reason for vs to bee suspicious of these because in them some things are set downe whereof in the rest of their vndoubted workes and in the infinite volumnes of antiquitie which are approoued and acknowledged there is no token to be found As for Bernand he liued in latter times of great apostasie and corruption In that truth which he reteined he is a good witnesse for vs against them but hee can be no witnesse for them to make good those corruptions which hee drew from the time wherein he liued And yet neither is his testimonie cited out of any of his owne works but from another I know not whom and therefore is the lesse to be regarded to say nothing that the speech is ridiculous and fond for why should wee imagine that the Angels triumph and the heauens congratulate that the earth leapeth for ioy and hell trembleth at the deuout saying of the Aue-Mary more then when wee say deuoutly Our Father which art in heauen c Surely good Christians will reiect such absurd dotages and idle dreames though with bad Christians al is fish that commeth to net and what custome offereth they are readie to entertaine neuer regarding to consult with the word of Christ for warrant of that they doe 47. W. BISHOP Now let vs come to the last part of the Catechisme which is of the Sacraments where M. PER. doth briefly repeat his arguments vsed before against the reall presence I might therefore send the Reader vnto the first Chapter of this booke for the answer but because the matter is of great importance I will heere againe giue them a short answer First saith hee the reall presence is ouerthrowne out of these words hee tooke bread and brake it ergo that which Christ tooke was not his bodie c. A simple ouerthrow Christ indeed tooke and brake bread but presently after blessing it made it his body by these words this is my bodie R. ABBOT I might send the Reader saith M. Bishop vnto the first chapter of this booke for the
if we see it not how should we remember any thing by it seeing signes of remembrance must be things seen Such was Goliaths sword such was the husbands blood kept by the wines as much pertinent to this purpose as a goose quill to a woodcocks taile The reall presence therfore in this behalfe is altogether idle neither is there any fruit or effect of it because there is nothing thereby to be seen Albeit Christ did not say see this in remembrance of me but do this in remembrance ofme And what he bid vs doe S. Paul telleth vs namely b 1. Cor. 11.26 to eat of this bread and drinke of this cup. And how shall wee eat of this bread in remembrance of him if it be true which they say that in the sacrament there is no bread If he will say that by the forme of bread we may be remembred though the body be not seen we can also say that by the bread we may be remembred though there bee no reall presence of the body and therfore the reall presence because it is needlesse is iustly affirmed to be none at all 54. W. BISHOP Eightly If the reall presence be granted Per. 8. then the body and blood of Christ are either seuered or ioined together if seuered then Christ is still crucified if ioyned together then the bread is both the body and blood of Christ wheras the institution saith the bread is the body and the wine is the blood Answ The body and blood of Christ are by force of Christs words consecrated apart so that if they could be naturally separated they should bee also seuered in that Sacrament as they might haue been at Christs death when all the blood was poured foorth of his body but euer sithence Christs resurrection they are so ioined together that they can bee no more seuered so that we grant vnder one kind of the Sacrament to be both Christs body and blood which is not wrought by the words of the institution but by the necessary and inseparable coniunction of Christs body with his blood euer since his glorious resurrection R. ABBOT To this it shall be needlesse to say any thing here because it commeth more fitly to be spoken of in the next section 55. W. BISHOP Finally M. Perkins condemneth the administration of the Sacrament vnder one onely kind for the commandement of Christ is drinke ye all of this Mat. 26. vers 27. and this commandement is rehersed to the Church of Corinth in these words doe this as oft as ye drinke it in remembrance of me vers 25. and no power can reuerse this commandement because it was established by the soueraigne head of the Church Answ He began to set downe the institution of the Sacrament out of S. Paul 1. Cor. 11. heere he leapeth backe to S. Mathew because he fitteth him better in this point to whom I answer that Christ there spake only vnto his twelue Apostles who were afterward to administer that holy Sacrament to others and so something ther-about is spoken to them which may not bee extended vnto lay-men but vnto Priests onely who were to succeed the Apostles in that ministery All men do confesse these words hoc facite doe yee this that is administer yee this Sacrament to be spoken onely to the Apostles and in them to all of the Clergie alone euen so drinke yee all of this was in like maner spoken vnto them onely as Clergie men and therfore it is a commandement onely to Priests so to do and as for others they may either drinke of it or not drinke of it as it shall bee thought most expedient by their supreame Pastors and this may be gathered out of those very words drinke ye all of this For why should the Apostles haue a speciall charge more to drinke of that cuppe then to eat of that food vnlesse it were to signifie that whereas all men should be bound to receiue Christs body they should bee further bound to receiue that holy cuppe also from which bond other men should stand free But to come to the purpose when they quarrell with vs for taking away from the people one kind of the Sacrament we answer that we doe them no hinderance thereby because we giue them both the blessed body and sacred bloud of Christ together vnder one kinde yea whole Christ both God and man because they be so vnited that they cannot be separated But what can they answer when we complaine vpon them for that they haue defrauded the poore people of both body and bloud of Christ and in lieu of that most pretious banquet doe giue them a cold breake-fast of a morsell of bread and a suppe of wine this is a most miserable and lamentable exchange indeed our blessed Lord giue them grace to see it and deliuer them speedily from it Heere is the place to shew how the Protestants doe not onely bereaue their vnfortunate followers of this most heauenly food of Christs body but that they also depriue them of the manifold and great graces of God deriued vnto vs in siue other Sacraments but because I haue touched it in the Preface I will omit it heere and make an end with M. PER. assoone as I haue requited him by propounding briefly some arguments for the real presence as hee hath done against it R. ABBOT Whether it bee S. Mathew or S. Paul they serue both for the confirming of one truth and doe both condemne the Antichristian and damnable sacriledge of the Church of Rome in maiming the Sacrament of Christ contrary to the institution of Christ himselfe to the very intention and purpose of the Sacrament to the example and practise of all ancient churches Our Sauiour Christ saith a Matt. 26.27 Drinke yee all of this But the Church of Rome saith Not so for there are iust and reasonable causes why it is not fit that all drinke therof but it is sufficient that the Priest alone drinke for all M. Bishop to make this good telleth vs that Christ there spake to his Apostles onely and that some thing thereabout is spoken to them which may not bee extended vnto lay-men but vnto Priests onely But how will hee make it appeare that Christ in the one part of the Sacrament spake to the Apostles onely and not in the other also There were none there present but the Apostles and what direction haue we in the words of Christ to restraine the vse of the cup as peculiar to the Priests and to make the other common to the people And if Christ did so intend how falleth it out that the Apostle S. Paul in the recitall of Christs institution professing b 1. Cor. 11.23 to deliuer precisely what he had receiued of the Lord maketh no mention of this restraint and what presumption was it in the whole primitiue Church contrary to that intendment to make that common to the laitie which Christ had made the prerogatiue of the Priests onely He saith
there be more in my booke saith he than you somtimes would haue people to beleeue they that haue a good opinion of it may hap to thinke that those graue and wise men in high authority foresaw that it would hardly be answered by laying nakedly testimony to testimony and reason to reason wherefore they thought it best policy to make choice of som iolly smooth-tongued discourser that might with a ruffling multitude of faire pleasing words cary his Reader from the matter Thus he is all marrow and pith a terrible man our graue wise men in high authority were afraid of him they were put to their shifts to haue his booke answered as for me I am no body all words and no woorth a man of too little substance to encounter with the profound learning of so great a Clerke I doe him heere a double fauour both that I traduce not his foolery as it deserueth and that I forbeare to giue him a ierke for so leaudly demeaning himselfe towards those graue wise men in high authority But what he is and what I am is not to be determined by him or mee God and the Country must trie vs both only this I doe not doubt that my writings vnlearned as they are haue set a dagger at his heart which he shall neuer be able to pull away It appeareth by this Preface that hee hath heard somewhat thereof that pleaseth him not whereupon he is growen so furiated and enraged as that he spitteth nothing but poison and straineth himselfe to the vttermost to disgrace that which he seeth to be so disgracefull to himselfe But he is heerein but as the dogge which gnaweth the stone which causeth paine to his owne teeth but to the stone can doe no harme at all And heere it troubleth him that to his Epistle being but one sheet and a halfe I should write so long an answer of thirty sheetes but I answer him that in the seruice of my Prince and in a busines of that nature I was not to huddle vp any thing but to vnfold and lay open all things that the truth might the more fully and plainly appeare I doe not wonder that he would haue had me more briefe because therby his vnhonest and shamefull dealing should haue beene the lesse seene In a word I wrot as the ancient fathers of the Church haue beene wont to doe not to serue the humour of Heretickes and enemies but as might best make for the satisfaction and edification of Gods Church 5. Another quarrell he hath concerning my sharpe and bitter words disgracefull and odious termes and bitter railing as he speaketh against the best men of their side As touching the persons I must tell him that the best of their side are very bad if they be no better than those of whom I haue spoken As touching the words I will not iustifie my selfe but that in a iust and righteous cause humane affection may carry me somewhat too far in heat but yet I must aduertise M. Bishop that there is a difference to be made betwixt words spoken by way of priuate anger and reuenge and those that are spoken by way of iust reproofe By way of iust reproofe Esay saith to wicked men q Esay 57.3 Ye witches children ye seed of the adulterer and of the whoore By way of iust reproofe Iohn Baptist said to the Pharisees and Sadduces r Mat. 3.7 O generations of vipers who hath forewarned you to flie from the wrath to come In like sort doth our Sauiour Christ bitterly reproch the Scribes and Pharisees calling them Å¿ Mat. 12.34 generations of vipers t Mat. 16.4 a wicked and adulterous generation u Mat. 23.13.16.17.26 Hypocrites blind guides fooles and blind blind Pharisees and in extreame passion saith x Ver. 33. Ye serpents Ye generations of vipers how should ye escape the damnation of hel So doth Steuen speake to the Iewes y Act. 7.51 Ye stifnecked and of vncircumcised hearts and eares And Paul to Ananias z Act. 23.3 God shall smite thee thou painted wall The words then are not alwaies faulty but the occasion thereof is alwaies to be regarded and the occasion thereof must be taken to depend much vpon the condition of the persons For where men are in any sort tractable and do not wilfully oppose themselues against instruction the Apostle prescribeth that rule alleaged by M. Bishop a 2. Tim. 2.24 The seruant of the Lord must not striue but must be gentle towards all apt to teach instructing with meekenesse them that are contrary minded But where men absurdly and wilfully resist the truth and doe leaudly seeke to draw others to be partakers with them in their sin there the Apostles example sometimes taketh place who when he saw Elymas the sorcerer labouring to turne away Sergius Paulus the Romane Deputy from the faith brast out with great indignation and said b Acts 13.10 O full of all subtilty mischiefe thou child of the diuel enemy of all righteousnes wilt thou not cease to peruert the straight waies of the Lord Now therefore albeit I doe not in any sort compare my selfe in measure of grace with those excellent seruants of God as M. Bishop to make himselfe worke full simply cauelleth yet according to that measure of the same spirit which God hath giuen me let no man maruell that I haue beene deeply mooued in heart to see these vassals of Antichrist by trocherous calumniations of true religion to offer so great indignity to the Anointed of the Lord and therefore haue somewhat dipped my pen in gall to exagitate their hypocrisie and iniquity in such sort as to me it seemed the cause it selfe did require Neither will I for that cause be a foule mouthed wrangler as M. Bishop hath stiled me but an earnest Aduocate of Gods truth c Iude vers 3. vehemently contending as the Apostle Iude exhorteth for the maintenance of the faith which was once giuen to the Saints caried with zeale and indignation towards malicious and wicked hypocrits who hauing prostituted their owne soules to the fornications of the whore of Babylon seeke perfidiously to entangle the consciences of others in the fellowship of their vngodly courses and in a word so far from wrangling and hauing with so sound reason and proofe repulsed the cauillations and Sycophancies of his epistle as that after three yeeres he can say nothing for iustification of his motiues which he tendered to the King but shiftingly abuseth the world by a meere collusion enlarging a booke out of some matters of discourse and making a miserable answer onely to some few sentences alledged against him without the compasse of that that he had written But it is not to be omitted in this behalfe what M. Bishop himselfe euen heere saith d Pag. 4. I wot well saith he that the most milde sweet pen-men are sometimes through zeale of the truth or by the ouerthwart dealing of their
led by them who thus grosly abuse you and noteth in the margent Doct. Abbot against Doct. Bishop part 2. in fine These words I vsed to withdraw M. Bishop from the Romish religion and yet M. Higgons thought that without offense he might take my words to serue him for an answer why he had now embraced the same presuming it to be the custome of all writers to take words euen out of the aduersaries mouth and to retort them vpon himselfe how ill he hath done it I will not heere say Now therefore in like sort though Saint Bernard had beene mine aduersary professedly writing against me yea though the words had beene M. Bishop words yet nothing could let but that thereby I might thus expresse the benefit of answering their bookes that to vse M. Bishops words though the heretike arise not from his filth yet the Church may be confirmed in the faith But the words as they are deliuered by Saint Bernard doe serue fully and directly to that purpose whereto I applied them He handleth that which is said in the Canticles l Cant. 2.15 Take vs the Foxes where by m Bernard in Cant. Ser. 64. Vulpes haereses vel potius haereticos ipsos intelligamus Capiantur non armis sed argumentis quibus refellantur errores corum ipsi verò si fieri potest reconcilientur Catholicae reuocentur ad veram fidem c. Homo de ecclesia exercitatus doctus si cum haeretico homine disputare aggreditur ille intentionem suam dirigere debet quatenus ita errantem conuincat vt conuertat c. Nec propterea sanè nihil se egisse putet qui haereticum vicit conuicit haereses confutauit verisimilia a vero clarè aperteque distinxit c. nam etsi haereticus non surrexit de faece tamen ecclesia confirmatur in fide Foxes hee vnderstandeth generally all heretikes which annoy and trouble the Church of God whom he will haue to be taken not with weapons but with arguments whereby to refute their errours that so they may be reconciled to the Catholike Church and recalled to true faith He saith that he that disputeth with an heretike should propound to himselfe to conuince his errour that so he may conuert him and thereupon to take away all obiection of losing his labour therein he addeth that though he will not be conuerted yet hee that hath conquered and conuicted him is not to thinke he hath done no good for though the heretike saith he arise not from his filth yet the Church is confirmed in the faith which is fully answerable to the drift of my speech where I vsed the same words What will he tell vs that he is not the heretike and therefore the words are misapplied But then I will deride his folly that chargeth me with misapplication onely vpon his owne conceit of the point in question He saith I am the heretike I say that he is so He saith it only but prooueth it not but he himselfe standeth by me conuicted of many hereticall positions and doctrines deliuered in his epistle and otherwise in his booke so as that he cannot finde how to trauerse the euidence thereof Yea but S. Bernard in that very place describeth those heretikes to be such as denied Purgatory and praier for the dead c. But M. Bishop therein saith vntruly for Bernard in that place speaketh of heretikes in general as I haue shewed and therfore leaueth his words to be applied to M. Bishop who doth patronise and defend so many wicked and damnable heresies True it is that in the two sermons following he speaketh particularly of some heretikes in his time and noteth them for some points by M. Bishop set down as namely Purgatory and praier for the dead but those matters he bringeth in a great way after in the end of the second Sermon and we doubt whether for those onely without greater cause he would haue noted them for heretikes in as much as Petrus Cluniacensis Bernards equall doth testifie as the Centurists haue obserued n Magdeburg Centur. 12. cap. 5. pag. 839. Petrus Cluniacensis ter in ea ipsa epistola fatetur Catholicos quosdam de sacrificijs orationibus pro defunctis dubitare that some Catholikes did then doubt of sacrifices and praiers for the dead and consequently of Purgatory which dependeth thereon He noteth them for other points wherein they are more like to the Papists than to vs as namely first that o Bernard in Cantic ser 65. Firmauerunt sibi sermonem nequam Iura periura secretum prodere noli c. Quod immobili iure sancitū est non peierandum scilicet hoc tanquam indifferens pro sua voluntate dispensant they dispensed with themselues to sweare and forsweare for the concealing of their owne secrets as now the Iesuites and Priests by their equiuocation and mentall reseruation teach their pupils to do They p Ibid. Contubernio faeminarū nemo inter eos qui careat c. Vxornè tua Non inquit nam voto meo istud non conuenit ser 66. In operimentum turpitudinis cōtinentiae se insigniere voto porrò turpitudinem in solis existimant vxoribus reputandam vowed continency but yet would not be without the company of women yea their vow of continency was but for the couering of their filthines thereby forbearing marriage as vncleane but in the meane time committing fornication as Popish Priests and Votaries are accustomed to doe q Ibid. Quidam dissentientes ab alijs inter solos virgines matrimonium contrahi posse fatentur Some of them permitted the first marriage but the second marriage they held vnlawfull and the Church of Rome now denieth to it their sacramentall benediction They also condemned the eating of flesh as a thing vncleane as the Maniches did they thought they might euery day at their owne tables consecrate for themselues the body and bloud of Christ they derided the baptising of infants which things with other like were such as might iustly moue S. Bernard to inueigh against them And these things hee spake as he was aduertised concerning them of whom hee spake but whether hee were truely aduertised it may bee doubted because he himselfe saith that not onely r Ser. 66. in fine Non solum laici principes sed quidam vt dicitur de Clero necno◠de ordine Episcoporum eos sustinent Princes of the laity but some also of the Clergy and of the Bishops were fauourers of them which it is not likely they would haue beene if they had beene men so ill conditioned as he reporteth them howsoeuer he vpon an vnlikely rale impute it to their taking bribes of them As for those matters which M. Bishop nameth it is no wonder that Bernard liuing in a time of so great corruption and declination of Christian faith were somewhat intangled in the superstitions of that time wonder it is rather that in the
noted of him and signified the reiecting of his story by the Church of Rome May they now thus at their pleasure reiect the ancient Historians of the Church and was it so hainous a matter for me to censure Eusebius being knowen to haue beene an Arian heretike for fathering vpon Constantine a superstition which it appeareth by himselfe he gaue him no occasion to conceiue of him 18. There followeth Chrysostome in the next place against whom Sixtus Senensis sticketh not to put in an exception that e Sixt. Senens Biblioth sanct l. 5. in Prafat Chrysostomus impetu disceptandicum Manichaeis Gentibus c. saeponumerò naturae nostrae vires plus aequo attollit by heat of reasoning against the Manicheeâ— and Heathens he doth often too much extoll the power of nature and Andradius condemning Origen of great errour for imputing sinne to the Virgin Mary saith that f Andrad Defens fidei Trident. l. 5. Neque ab hoc Origenis errato Chrysostomus plurimum abfuit c. Chrysostome was not farre from the same errour of Origen when he charged her with importunity and ambition for that shee interrupted her sonne as he was preaching Will they againe at their liberty thus tax Chrysostome and doe I offend in saying that g Answer to the epistle sect 25. pag. 175. as an Oratour hee apprehended a thing to speake according to present occasion which otherwise he approoued not when I giue plaine demonstration and proofe that it is so The place it selfe gentle Reader will satisfie thee neither need I to vse any defense of it So will the other also where I say of a speech of Chrysostome concerning Constantines sonne that h Ibid. pag. 176. howsoeuer it proceeded from him it is much different from the certaine story I show that it is so what a vaine brangler is hee to cauill at my words when as he is not able to controll the proofe 19. The next abuse that he noteth is to S. Austin wherin he plaieth Will Sommers part striking him that is next him but letting him alone by whom he himselfe is stricken My words are these i Answer to the Epistle sect 8. pa. 54. ex Erasm argument in lib. Hieronym aduers Ioninian Diuus Augustinâ—o errores quosdam confert in Iouinianum quos tamen illi non impingit Hieronymus vtique non dissimulaturus siquid tale docuisset c. Verùm apparet diuum Augustinum nec Iouiniani nec in hunc Hieronymi libros legisse tantum rumore populari didicisse quod nouerat de Iouiniano Erasmus obserueth truly that Austin chargeth Iouinian with some errours whereof Hierome maketh no mention who would not haue passed by them if Iouinian had taught them whereby it appeareth as he collecteth that Austin had neither read Iouinians bookes nor Hieromes bookes against Iouinian but onely by peoples rumours and talke had learned that that he knew concerning Iouinian I note what Erasmus collecteth Erasmus himselfe giueth reason of his so collecting and was not this a mortall abuse committed by me towards S. Austin that M. Bishop should say as he doth In like maner he slandereth S. Austin for writing against Iouinian whose opinions saith M. Abbot very audaciously S. Austin knew onely by hearesay and not of any certainty Doest thou not thinke he is well skilled in his art that can so well bombast such a quarrell as this is But there is forsooth another matter that I say Austin was deceiued where he said that no Priests imbraced Iouinians opinion And did I not prooue so much by Hierome himselfe that there were both Bishops Priests of the same minde Yea that the Clergy Monks of the church of Rome notwithstanding the sentence of Siricius then Bishop of Rome retained still their opinion that maried wiues are the same with God as Virgins are the thing is plaine and were M. Bishop so wise as he should be he would neuer trouble vs with such idle stuffe 20. I note Hierome k Ibid. pag. 54. for rude vndecent speeches against mariage He that will know whether he vsed any such or not let him read his epistle ad Gerontiam de Monogamia and his first booke against Iouinian in which his vsage is such in that behalfe as gaue occasion of great offence in Rome so as that the greatest part of his Apology to Pammachius is spent in excusing such speeches which notwithstanding to say the truth very slenderly hee doth That he wrot against Iouinian with l Pag. 57. all indignation and stomacke who doubteth that readeth what he wrot who seeth not that he laboured to the vttermost of his power to disgrace him against whom he wrot As for railing I mention it not by mine owne words but by the words of Erasmus who saith of him against Vigilantius m Answer to the epist sect 9. pag. 67. ex Erasm argum in lib. Hieron aduers Vigilantium In hunc ita conuicijs debacchatur Hieronymus vt plusculum in eo modestiae cogar desiderare Vtinam argumentu duntaxat egisset a conuicijs temperasset He doth so raile at him as that I cannot but wish that hee had shewed more modesty I would he had dealt by argument onely and had for borne railing speeches False doctrine I name not but if there be nothing false in Hierome how commeth it about that Bellarmine mentioning that n Bell. de Rom. Pont. lib. 1. c. 8. Videtur beatus Hieronymus inea sententia fuisse vt existimaret episcopoâ— esse presbyteris maiores iure ecclesiastico non diuino qua sententia falsa est suo loco refectetur Hierome seemeth to be of that opinion that Bishops by the law of God are not superiour to Priests saith that that opinion is false and he will afterwards refute it or how doth Alfonsus De Castro say that o Alphons de Castro aduers haeres l. 6. apud Sixt. Senens Biblioth sanct l. 6. annot 324. Non veretur fateri Hieronymum hac in parte errasse he doubteh not to confesse that Hierome in that behalfe erred as Sixtus Senenfis hath reported of him Thus it appeareth that I haue not taken exception against any father but that they themselues also except against the same as they doe also against the rest Of Iustinus Irenaeus Epiphanius Oecumenius Bellarmine saith p Bellarm. de sanct beatitud c. 6. Iustini Irenaei c. sententiam non video quo pacto possimus ab errore defendere I doe not see how we can defend their opinion from errour q Idem de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 7. Videtur mortalitèr peccasse cùm praecepto expresso Apostolico non paruerit Cyprian he saith seemeth to haue sinned mortally for that he obeied not the expresse commandement of the Bishop of Rome In another case he saith r Ibid. cap. 8. Respondeo non esse omninò fidem habendam Tertulliano in hac parte quandoquidem ipse Montanista erat Tertullian
Pag. 12. answer to the second section of his Epistle I say thus p Bulla Pij 5. de Maior obed cap. Vnam sanctam Behold sayth the Pope we are set ouer nations and kingdomes to build vp and to plant to pull vp and to destroy c. and therefore what the wisdome of God saieth as M. Bishop alleageth q Prou. 8.15 By me Kings raigne the same the Pope blasphemously applieth r Ceremon eccles Rom. lib. 1. cap. 2. Ad sum mum pontificem Dâ—i vices gerentem in terris tanquoam ad eum per quem reges regnant c. to himselfe Per me reges regnant By me Kings raigne To prooue that the Pope saith that By him Kings raigne I alleaged his owne booke Sacrar ceremon eccl Rom. l. 1. c. 2. where it is expresly sayd that it is he by whom Kings doe reigne as I haue now set downe in his owne words euen as * supra sect 5. before I noted him saying of the Emperour By me he reigneth Now in setting downe my text in Å¿ Reproofe pag. 82. his booke hee quite leaueth out the citation and then telleth his Reader t Pag. 84. This is the fift lie that he makes within the compasse of lesse than halfe a side for albeit the Pope vse the words spoken to the Prophet Ieremy Ecce nos constituti sumus c. yet doth he not those by King Salomon vttered in the person of Gods wisdome which M. Abbot deceitfully shuffleth in But M. Bishop do I lie indeed What will you tell me that I lie and in the mean time suppresse the proofe whereby it should appeare that I doe not lie If I should thus deale I know what you would terme it and I could not but acknowledge it what it is in you let the world iudge I forbeare to giue it the right name Another prank he plaieth of as great honesty as this in putting in of words which are none of mine u Answer to the epistle sect 3. pag 19. Our faith therefore say I because it is that which the Apostles committed to writing is the Apostolike faith and our Church ex consanguinitate doctrinae by consanguinity and agreement of doctrine is procued to be an Apostolike church At the end of which words M. Bishop x Reptoofe pag. 103. in setting downe my text hath put in c. as if there were something els to come in than he hath expressed and in the rehearsing of them in his answer addeth these words y Pag. 114. And is the only true Catholike church as if I had said that our Church of England is the only true Catholike church and is proued by perfection of doctrine to be the only true Catholike church heereupon running vpon mee for saying the same which I reproued in the Donatists wheras the words against which hee fighteth are none of my words but are most leaudly and falsely thrust in by himselfe You tell me of tricks M. Bishop but if I had vsed such tricks as these and many other of yours I would be ashamed euer to set pen to paper again Remember what your selfe haue said z Reproofe pag. 283. The diuels cause it is that needeth to be bolstered out and vnderpropped with lies 26. Yet further gentle Reader to giue thee some small taste of his answers to the authorities by me alleged thou maiest first take knowledge of those words of Austin a Answer to the epistle sect 3. pag. 18. ex August cont lit Petilian l. 3. c 6 Siquis siue de Christo siue de eâ—us ecclesia siue de quaecunque re quae pertinet ad fidem vitamque nostram non dicam Nos c. sed si angelus de caelo vobis annunciauerit praeterquam quod in scripturis legalibus Euangelicis accepistis anathema sit If any man nay if an Angell from heauen shall preach vnto you concerning Christ or concerning his Church or concerning any thing pertaining to our faith and life but what ye haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospell accursed be he What saith M. Bishop heere b Reproofe pag. 112. To S. Austin I answer first that those are not his formall words which he citeth Is that all But if those be not his formall words why doth he not tell his Reader what his formall words are Surely if hee were a man formally honest he wold deale more materially than to mocke his Reader in this sort Well though he will not tell the formall words yet he expoundeth the meaning to be if any shall preach contrary to that that is written whereas S. Austin telleth vs that c August de Doct. Christ l. 2. c. 9. In ijs quae apertè in scriptura posita sunt inueniuntur illa omnia quae continent fidem moresque vinendi in those things which are plainely set downe in the Scripture are found all those things which conteine faith and conuersation of life and therefore meaneth not only if any preach contrary but as his words are if any preach any thing beside that that is written accursed be he 27. I alledged that S. Paul writing his epistle to the Romans d Answer to the epistle sect 4. pag. 24. ex Theodoret praefat in epist Pauli comprehended therein as Theodoret saith omnis generis doctrinam accuratam copiosamque dogmatum pertractationem doctrine of all sorts or all kind of doctrine and very exact and plentifull handling of the points thereof The first part of these words in Latin he leaueth out in my text and in his answer saith to it thus e Reproofe pag. 132. 133. That you may see how nothing can passe his fingers without some legerdemaine marke how he Englisheth Theodorets words Dogmatum pertractationem the handling of opinions is by him translated all points of doctrine whereas it rather signifieth some than all opinions or lessons But M. Bishop this dealing of yours is somewhat too grosse Mee thinkes you should seeke to be acquainted with some Aegyptians that you may learne of them somewhat more cunningly to shift and conueigh Thou seest gentle Reader that he hath dashed out Omnis generis Doctrinam all kinde of Doctrine wherein the force of the words consisteth and then saith that by legerdemaine I haue Englished Dogmatum pertractationem all points of Doctrine Doe not maruell that he doth so because he well perceiued that by these words of Theodoret his Reader should see that if the Apostle comprehended in that epistle all kinde of Doctrine then the doctrine of the church of Rome that now is cannot be the same that it was of old because they haue so many Doctrines now whereof there is nothing conteined in that epistle 28. I produce Agatho Bishop of Rome professing f Answer to the epist sect 4. pag. 29. duty of obedience to the Emperour Constantinus the fourth and taking vpon him obediently to performe what the said Emperour commanded Heare
and that vnder the same pretence by which the Papists excuse their praying to Saints and Angels that we may not presume immediately to goe to God himselfe but must by them procure fauour and make way to him This superstition continued he saith in Phrygia and Pisidia They builded Oratories and Chapels in the names of the Angels whither they assembled themselues for the exercise of this deuotion This saith Theodoret was the thing which the Councell condemned Yea but see the Canon saith M. Bishop and you shall finde M. Abbots legerdemaine But why did not hee himselfe set downe the Canon Hee knew well that he wrot to them that would neuer see the Canon and doth he thus let the matter slip with See the Canon Be well assured gentle Rreader that he would neuer haue omitted to set downe the Canon if there had beene any thing in it either to helpe himselfe or to crosse me The Canon is this t Concil Lao. dicen c. 35. Quod non oportet Christianos relicta Dei ecclesia abire 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 angelos compellare vel congregationes facere quod est prohibitum Siquis ergò inuentus fuerit huie occultae idoloatriae vacare sit anathema quia reliquit dominum nostrum Iesum Christum accessit ad idoloiatriam That it behoueth not Christians forsaking Gods Church to goe and call to the Angels or to make assemblies which is forbidden if any man therefore be found to giue himselfe to this secret idolatry accursed be he because he hath forsaken our Lord Iesus Christ and hath resorted to idolatry Marke well the Canon I pray thee and see whether thou canst finde that I haue committed any legerdemaine or whether it be not rather one of M. Bishops trickes of legerdemaine thus to obiect the same to me that he in the meane time may be thought to be free from it with whom indeed is no other but legerdemaine The Councell plainly instructeth vs that to pray to angels is idolatry that the assemblies of those superstitious people to pray to Angels were assemblies of idolatry and that to forsake the Church to goe to pray to Angels is to forsake Christ and to repaire to idolatry leauing vs thereby consequently to vnderstand that to bring inuocation of Angels into the Church as the Papists haue done is to bring idolatry thereinto M. Bishop would make vs beleeue that the Councell meaneth not that it is vnlawfull to pray to Angels but so to pray to them as to forsake Christ and to prefer them before Christ whereas the Councell saieth not a word of preferring the Angels before Christ nor speaketh of forsaking Christ but it saith that to forsake the church to goe to pray to angels is to forsake our Lord Iesus Christ to runne to idolatry plainely resoluing that to pray to angels is idolatry and in no sort to be receiued in the Church of Christ We conclude therefore against M. Bishop that the Church of Rome in praying to angels doth commit idolatry and is not now all one with the ancient Church of Rome that did condemne the same This then is the aduantage that M. Bishop hath gotten by referring his Reader to the Canon that we are to account his talke of legerdemaine but as the preaching of the fox crying out vpon falsehood that he himselfe may the more securely practise it as I might further shew but that for a taste I haue said enough already by his answers concerning Carpocrates and Marcellina and concerning a Canon of the Councell of Gangra in the very same place 31. To shew his treacherie in citing antiquities one or two examples shall suffice To attribute vnto the Bishop of Rome a soueraigne power for the assembling of Councels he allegeth certaine words written by some Easterne bishops as to Damasus bishop of Rome u Reproofe pag. 176. By the commandement of letters sent the last yeere by your reuerence vnto the most roiall Emperour Theodosius we vndertooke the iourney euen to Constantinople whereas those words were not written to Damasus onely but also to Ambrose Britto Valerian Acholius Anemius Basil and other holy Bishops assembled in the citie of Rome neither are as he citeth By the commandement of letters c. but x Theodoret. hist. lib. 5. cap. 9. Concurreramus Constantinopolim ad vestrae reuerentiae literas post conciliū Aquileiēse missas Theodosio summa pietate Imperatori Vpon the letters of your reuerence sent after the councell of Aquileia to Theodosius the most religious Emperour we assembled together at Constantinople Did he heere meane any truth that would bring that as proper to the Bishop of Rome which was common to a whole Synod of Bishops and would translate letters of commandement where there appeareth nothing at all but that they were letters of request In the very next words he committeth the same fraud alleaging that in the Councell of Chalcedon the Bishops of Maesia writing vnto the Emperour Leo doe say that many holy bishops met together in the citie of Chalcedon by the commandement of Leo bishop of Rome who truely is the head of bishops whereas it is not there onely y Concil Chal. ced epist episcop Maesiae ad Leonem Imperat per iussionem Leonis Romani pontificis qui vere caput est episcoporum venerabilis sacerdotis patrairchae Anatolij concilio celebrato by the commandement of Leo bishop of Rome but it is added and of the reuerend Bishop and Patriach Anatolius so that Anatolius the Patriarch of Constantinople is made heere a commander as well as the bishop of Rome ech of them of those bishops which within their seuerall precincts and bounds were subiect vnto them and both by vertue of the Emperours writ as appeareth plainly for that z Ibid. Act. 1. Facta est synodus ex decreto fidelissimorum Imperatorum c. in Epist Concil act 3. Synodus secundum Dei gratiam sanctionem vestrae pietatu congregata the Councell is said to haue beene assembled by the Decree of the Emperours Valentinianus and Martianus and so in an Epistle to the said Emperours professeth it selfe by the grace of God and by their commandement to be there gathered together It were woorth the while but that I am loth heere to be ouer-long to declare how notably he abuseth his Reader concerning Tertullian and the Montanists I will for the time only note first that whereas I set downe Tertullians relation of the arguments vsed by the Catholike Church against him and the rest of his sect the knowledge whereof is very effectuall to giue light of iudgement concerning the point in hand he vnder a lying pretence that I haue * Reproofe pag. 222. 224. mangled them and peeced them together at my pleasure very trecherously suppresseth them as before I shewed he did in the very same sort the words of Methodius concerning originall sinne and secondly that he saith that a Ibid. pag. 223.
condition of fraile and sinfull flesh Now because no part of this could be imported in that memoriall if it were a thankesgiuing for the Saints therefore whether M. Higgons will or not it must necessarily be taken to haue been a praier for them And heereof there is one argument more in the last part of the comparison when he saith of Christ that he is in heauen and of the Saints that they are in the earth by their bodies yet resting in the earth Where it hath some reason that they should say We pray for them as respecting that their bodies lie yet in the dust of the earth expecting a blessed and happy resurrection which we craue to bee reuealed vpon them but to say that they meant to giue thanks to God for that the bodies of the Saints lie buried in the earth it were senslesse and absurd And because it is confirmed vnto vs by the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy that the Church did pray for the dead in respect of the resurrection therefore wee cannot doubt but that the memoriall heere spoken of by Epiphanius vsed for the Saints in respect of their bodies in the earth was a praier for them to wish their full and perfect consummation by the resurrection from the dead My former conclusion therefore hence deduced standeth good that sith the ancient Church thus praied for the Saints and Martyrs therefore that certaine it is they did not pray vnto them And because they thus praied for the Saints whose soules they were assured were in heauen therefore they praied for the dead without respect of Purgatory which now is made the onely ground and reason of praier for the dead 38. The next matter for which he questioneth me is concerning the opinion of the Greeke churches as touching Purgatory and prayer for the dead My words are such as might haue serued to weaken his motiue had hee not beene resolued without any motiue to remooue and run away What could he haue better to resolue him then that which I say that the Papists themselues confesse that Purgatory was not receiued or beleeued in the Greeke Churches and therefore that it is certaine that they had no respect of Purgatory in their praier for the dead I did not onely say that the Papists confesse it but I cited the places of their confession Alfonsus De Castro saith k Alfons De Castro adu haeres lib. 8. tit de Indulgent In antiquis scriptoribus de Purgatorio feré nulla mentio potissimum apud Graecos Scriptores quae de causa vsque in hodiernum diem purgatorium non est a Graecis creditum Of Purgatory there is in a maner no mention at all with the ancients but specially with the Greeke writers for which cause Purgatory is not beleeued of the Greekes vntill this day Yea not of the Greekes only but of the Armenians also he acknowledgeth that l Ibid lib. 12. de purgatorio vnus ex notissimis erroribus Graecorum Armeniorum est quo docent nullum esse Purgatorium c. they teach there is no Purgatory calling it an errour well knowen concerning them both The words of Roffensis their great and holy Martyr I cited out of Polydore Virgil m Polyd. Virg. de inuent rer lib. 8. cap. 1. ex Roffensi De Purgatorio apud priscos nulla vel quà m rarissima fiebat mentio sed Graecis ad hunc vsque diem non est creditum esse Of Purgatory there was none or very rare mention made amongst the ancient Fathers yea and with the Greekes it is not beleeued till this day Thus did they ingenuously acknowledge as the truth is and did it nothing stagger M. Higgons to finde this so plainly acknowledged Did it make him nothing doubt of his imagined mutuall dependance of Purgatory and praier for the dead Surely he was a very voluntary conuert or else he might easily haue seene that it is no good connexion to say They praied for the dead therefore they beleeued Purgatory but rather they beleeued not Purgatory therefore they praied not for the dead in any such meaning as the Papists now doe He might haue remembred that which I told Doct. Bishop that many amongst vs of custome and of humane affection of loue doe vse many times words of praier for the dead who notwithstanding from the bottome of their hearts doe vtterly defie both Purgatory and the Pope 39. In another place hee saith that it is n Book 1. part 2. cap. 3. ¶ 4. num 2. to our great disreputation that I name the Albigenses as professours of the same faith and religion which we now prefesse But why Forsooth he knoweth no cause himselfe but referreth his Reader to Parsons the Iesuit in his treatise of the three conuersions of England Yea M. Higgons would you make Parsons his narration a motiue of your recantation Would you giue heed to him whom you knew by the testimony of his owne fellows to be a man of Belial an infamous wretch a meere politizing Atheist and therefore likely if it were to serue his turne to deale with the stories of the ancient Christian Martyrs as he hath done with M. Foxes story carying himselfe in all that worke like a very Porphyrie or Iulian applauding himselfe and seeking to bee applauded in a iollity of forcing all things euen against the haire to scorne and mockery You say the Albigenses in their opinions followed the Waldenses as indeed they were the same some part of them onely being so called of the towne wherein they dwelt and would you beleeue Parsons concerning the opinions of the Waldenses who o Exam. of Fox his calen cap. 3. num 13. Of these Waldēses see at large Simon Goulart Catalog test veritatis lib. 15. Where thou shalt see how leaudly Parsons hath dealt with them disclaimeth Aeneas Syluius who was afterwards Bishop of Rome testifying their faith and doctrine vprightly and faithfully as of his owne knowledge that so he may giue way to other either carelesse or malicious reporters who impiously fathered vpon them strange paradoxes in no other sort than Friar p Edm. Campi decem rat cap. 8. passim Campian lately dealt with vs Yea and is not ashamed to cite q Three Conuers pag. 2. c. 10. num 29. Prateolus and Sanders for witnesses thereof whose ioy it hath been to finde out any thing were it neuer so vntrue which they might report opprobrious and disgracefull to them I doubt not but that the Waldenses and Albigenses might happily in some things be otherwise minded than we be and what are they in the church of Rome all in all things of one and the same minde but if wee respect the substance of their faith and doctrine as we may discerne the same not only by r Aeneas Sylu. de Origen Bohem cap. 35. Aeneas Syluius but also by ſ Alfons adu haeres passim Alfonsus De Castro and specially by t Sleidan Comment lib. 16.