aliquid dictum est sed vbi clara â—â—aperta sune testimonia id facere consueuerunt more quiaâ—â— haereâ—icorum etiam caetâ—rorum It is no maruel if the Pelagians endeuor to wrest our sayings into what senses they will when they are accustomed to do the same by the holie scriptures not where any thing is spoken darkely but where the testimonies are cleere and manifest after the manner indeede of the rest of heretikes These wordes of Saint Augustine doe as aptelie agree to the Papists as though they had bene by name vttered against them as in that which followeth you shall see verified in this Papist whoe both wresteth out sayings to such sense as himselfe pleaseth and also the holie scriptures themselues where they are most plaine and euident against him a right pranek of olde herenkes Note also by the waie that the scripture by Saint Augustines iudgement containeth most cleere and euident testimonies which though they be neuer so much wrested of herenkes yet in the conscience of all that loue the truth they doe manifestlie deliuer true doctrine and confute false and therefore be not as a nose of wax or a leaden rule by which no certentie maie be found or anie sure triall had by them as the Papists doe blaspheme The next quotation l. 3. cont Donat. ca. 15. is vncertaine because of diuerse treatises that S. Augustine did write against the Donatists but I gesse he meaneth his booke de Baptismo contra Donatistas where yet is nothing to his purpose or to anie purpose in hand but that the scripture of the Gospell If it be wholl is the same although it be alleadged by innumerable heretikes according to the diversitie of euerie one of their opinions and so Baptisme ministred by heretikes according to the institution of Christ is the same what opinion soever the heretikes haue of the wordes by which it is consecrated and ministred He saith also that the snares of heretikes and schismatikes are therefore very pernicious to carnal men because their proâ—ting in knowledge is shut from them their sentence of vanitie being confirmed against the Catholike trueth and their sentence of dissention being conâ—â—â—med agâ—inâ— the catholike peace These things are true of obstinate heretikes and consequentlie of Papists but they make nothing against Master Chark or for the triall of spirits which is the question now debated betweene him his aduersarie But that the scriptures are sufficient to beate downe al heresies and to reach all trueth necessarie to saluation and the onelie sure and certaine triall whereby all doctrine is to be examined and adiudged the same Augustine doth plentifullie and in manie places of his workes declare and euen in that same worke de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. Cap. 2. de vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2 3. 16. de nup. conc lib. 2. cap. 29. de peccat merit remiss lib. 3. cap. 7. de natura gratia cap. 60. c. Three causes there be saith our answerer of appealing onelie to scripture The first to get credit with the people by naming of scripture to seeme to honor it more then their aduersaries doe by referring the wholl triall of matters vnto it To winne credit by cleauing to the authoritie of God expressed in his holie word written and to honor it by acknowledging the sufficiencie thereof for the triall of all matters of religion that maie comme in controuersie is no shift of heretikes or new teachers but the auncient practize of the best and most approoued Catholikes To pretend these things in shew and not to accomplish them in deed is the guise of hypocrites what religion soeuet they would seeme to mantaine The second cause saith he is by excluding Councells fathers and aunciters of the Church whoe from time to time haue declared the true sexse of scripture vnto vs to reserue vnto them selues libertie and authoritie to make what meaning of scripture they please and thereby to giue colour to euerie fansie they list to teach But Master Charke and his fellowes giuing the soueraigne authoritie to the onely scriptures do not at all exclude councells fathers and aunciters of the Church except it be in case where they teach contrarie to the manifest scriptures of god which doe either in expresse and plaine wordes or els by moste easie and necessarie conclusion deliuer vnto the Church all things needefull to be credited and knowne vnto eternall life as both the Apostle testifieth 2. Timoth. 3. and S. Augustine a worthie Father auncient of the Church consenteth Ep. III. Fortunatiano Neque enim quorumlibet disputationes quamuis CatholicoruÌ„ laudatorum hominum velut scripturas canonicas habere debemus vt nobis nonliceat salua honorificentia quae illis dcbetur hominibus aliquid in eorum scriptis improbare atque respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòdaliter senserint quà m veritas habet diuino adiutorio vel ab aliis intellecta vel à nobis Talis ego sum in scriptis aliorum tales volo esse intellectores meorum Denique in his omnibus quae de opusculis sanctorum atque doctorum commemoraui Ambrosij Hyeronimi Athanasij Gregorij siqua alioruÌ„ talia ita legere potui For we ought not to accompt the disputations of all men although they be catholike praise worthie as the Canonicall scriptures that it should not be lawful for vs sauing the reuerence which is due to these men to disalow and reiect something in their writings if perhaps we haue found out that they haue thought otherwise then the truth is of things by gods helpe either vnderstood of others or of our selues Such one am I in the writings of other men such would I haue other men to be vnderstanders of my writings Finallie in all these which I haue rehearsed out of the workes of holie and learned men Ambros Hicrott Athanasius Gregorie Andif I could so reade any like of other mens writings c. Also Ep. 112. Pauline 〈◊〉 scripturarum earum scilicet quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate fine vlla dubitatione credendum est Aliis verò testibus vel testimoniis quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum meriti ea admonentem ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis What sceuer is confirmed by the plaine cleare authoritie of the holie scriptures of those truelie which are called in the Church canonicall without all doubt is to be beleeued But other witnesses or testimonies by which anie thing is counselled to be beleeued it is lawfull for thee to beleeue or not according as thou shale waigh what worthines he that counselleth those things hath to cause credit or els hath not Againe De doctrina christiana lib. 3. cap. 6. Magnificè salubriter spiritus sanctus ita scripturas sanctas modificauit vt locis apertioribus fami occurreret obscurioribus autem
fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
holde thy peace that no man euer perceiue or smell out that I haue so euill a conscience And afterward should set forth my selfe lustilie and clapping my handes together with full mouth should sing Hei how the Christians haue not anie place of scripture which affirmeth and prooueth that the word is made flesh And yet at the last I should submitte my selfe againe and desire to be instructed and taught how they could prooue it out of the scripture which I before had rent in peeces If this were leife and lawfull for me to doe O mortall God how great businesse and trouble might I cause in the olde and new testament as well to the Iewes as Christians These are the verie wordes of Luther in deede Now the ende why he vseth these fond comparisons he sheweth afterward Quisquis enim vult verba scripturae aliter quà m sonant interpretari is tenetur ex textu eiusdem loci aut ex aliquo fidei articulo probare For whoesoeuer will interpret the wordes of scripture otherwise then they sound he is bound out of the text of the same place or out of some article of faith to prooue it Which rule in deede or the like if it be notkept there will be no ende of vaine licentious interpretations But Zuinglius and Oecolampadius out of the text of the same place where the cuppe is called the new testament in his bloode and out of the article of Christs incarnation and true manhoode vnconfounded with his godhead doe prooue that their interpretation must needes be true therefore these similitudes doe not shew that their exposition is absurde also Luther him selfe denyeth that his meaning was to deface them by those grosse similitudes absurdities Deus nouit c. God knoweth saith he that with these grosse similitudes I studdie not to deface Zuinglius and much lesse Oecolampadius vnto whome God hath giuen manie gifts aboue many other men whose case I doe lament from my heart neither with such wordes doe I bend my pen against them but rather against the Deuill proudlie and bitterlie 〈◊〉 vs which hath circumuenied and deceiued them that I might fulfill the lust of my minde against him to the honour of God c. These sayings of Luther declare that albeit he stood too much in his owne conccyt touching this sacramentarie matter and was verie hastie and rash of iudgement in condemning them that helde the truth against him yet he was not so voide of charitie as the answerer gathereth by some vehement speaches of his shewing here how he meaneth them and would haue thē to be vnderstood namely not against the persons of Zuinglius and Oecolampadius but against the deuill who as he falselie imagined had deceiued them in this matter So that the controuersie is still betweene the true Catholikes and the Papists which part prouoketh to the scriptures in their true meaning as the onelie sufficient rule to decide all controuersies of religion But which part alleadgeih the true meaning saith our answerer according to the councell of wise Sisinius to Theodosius the Emperour we desire to be tried by the iudgement of auncient fathers indifferent in this matter for that they liued before our controuersies came in question This he saith but as I haue prooued before and namelie in the exampled of transsubstantiation they will not stand to the iudgement of the auncient fathers further then their Pope shal alow them As for vs we refuse not the iudgement of the most auncient fathers except it be in such matters wherein it is manifest by the plaine texts and necessarie collections out of the scripture that they were deceiued as euen the Papists will confesse in some poyntes that they were This wise Sisinius whose counsell he would haue followed was a wise heretike whoe first gaue the aduise to Nectarius the Catholike Bishop by whome it was commended to the Emperour and had good successe against all other heresies saue the heresie of the Nouatians who by meanes hereof came in credit with the Emperour and had free libertie to vse their conuenticles openlie By which it appeareth that it is no perfect kinde of triall which was first offered by an heretike wherebie he could not be conuicted of his heresie Againe it was not vsed against the sufficiencie of the scripture and the triall that maie be had therebie but onelie to cutte of quarelous disputation of heretikes which are alwaies more readie to contend then to learne the truth Last of all where he saith the auncient fathers are indifferent for that they liued before our controuersies came in question it is no sufficient argument seeing the auncient fathers erred them-selues in some points and no man is an indifferent iudge in that case wherein he is deeeiued him-selfe Againe the auncient fathers are not all of one antiquitie but commonlie the most auncient the purest and furthest from all smacke of Antichristian errors the later more sauouring of the infection of the times drawing toward the apostasie Euen as water the nearer the spring is purer but running further of through vnpure soyle receiueth some taste thereof So the Councell of Sisinius in respect of the most auncient fathers that were before the heresies of those times was better to be vsed in his time then in these daies when they that liued fiue hundred yeares after Sisinius maie be counted auncient fathers in respect of vs yet their iudgement not so weightie nor so meete to be imbraced as those first fathers of the primitiue Church to whose iudgement if all matters of controuersie were referred the Papists should get but small aduantage But our aduersaries saith the answerer will allow no exposition but their owne wherebie it is easie to defeat whatsoeuer is brought against them scripture or Doctor In deede this which he saith is moste true of the Papists as I haue prooued before but vntrue of vs for we allowe all interpretations that are not contrarie to the analogie of faith and are agreeable to the plaine words necessarie circumstances of the place of scripture not repugnant to anie other euident text of scripture According to which rules we must examine all expositions of all men since the Apostles time yea the Apostles them-selues were content that their doctrine should be examined by the scriptures of the olde testament but so are not the Papists for they holde opinions altogether beside the scriptures But our answerer to iustifie that which he hath saide against vs bringeth examples of shifting scriptures and Doctors all which except one are gathered out of diuerse writings of Doctor Fulke for answere of which seeing he hath set forth a speciall treatise I referre the reader thereunto pag. 38. 39. 40. That one example which he could father vpon no man I will examine here The like euasion saith he they haue when we alleadge the wordes of Saint Paull Qui matrimonio c he that ioyneth his virgin in mariage doth well and he that ioyneth
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
Luther say that he hath but one sacrament for vs in that mea ning of the word sacrament in which he is charged by the cauiller to alter his opinion so shortlie but in an other meaning neither doth he saie that this one sacrament is haptisme in which I can but wonder at the impudency of this fellow that forgeth this last lie in his owne braine without all colour or shew of Luthers words as though Luther would allow no sacrament of the Church but Baptisme The wordes of Luther are these of the number of sacraments After he hath denied the number of seauen admitted for the present but three namely Baptisme penance the supper all which he affirmeth by the court of Rome to be brought into miserable captiuitie and the Church spoiled of all her libertie he addeth Quanquam si vsu scripturae loqui velim non nisi'vnum sacramentum habeam tria signa sacrament alia de quo latiùs suo tempore Although if I would speake after the vse of scripture I haue but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes whereof more at large in due time This one sacrament whereof he speaketh is the holie mysterie or secret of our redemption or saluation by Iesus Christ of which the other that are commonlie called sacraments are holie and mysticall signes so that herein he changeth no opinion of the thing but onelie speaketh of the diuerse taking of the worde Well yet will our a duersarie replie he alloweth three sacraments so doth the confession of Auspurge Melancthon fowre and Caluine two and all this by onelie scripture I haue shewed before sufficientlie that this question of the number of those signes that maie be called sacraments properlie or vnproperlie generallie or speciallie is not determinable by the holie scriptures because this name of sacrament is not found in them Those holie mysteries which by externall elements do testifie the inuisible grace of God workeing in vs vnto our saluation by regeneration and preseruation are plainlie set forth in the scripture Baptisme and the Lords supper without naming them sacraments which comprehend that whol mysterie of our saluation which Luther calleth the onelie sacrament by the vse of the scripture according to which explication of the word sacrament there are but two so rightlie properlie and speciallie to be termed according to the auncient vsage of the Latine Church and no more acknowledged by anie protestant of sound religion For Luther his enemies shall testifie which were appointed to gather out of his writings whatsoeuer they thought to be erroneous to be obiected against him this is their Censure Negat septem esse sacramenta sed tantùm tria pro tempore ponenda baptismum poenitentiam panem Immo non nisi vnum esse sacramentum tria figna sacramentalia Duo tamen in Ecclesia Dei esse sacramenta baptismum panem He denieth say the collectors that there are seauen sacraments but that three onelie for the time are to be admitted baptisme penance and the breade nay rather that there is but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes neuertheles there are two sacraments in the Church of God baptisme and the bread Luthers iudgement thus appearing by the confestion of his owne aduersaries that as baptisme and the supper are called sacraments there are no more that rightlie and properlie can beare that name The confession of Auspurge and Melancthon which as our answerer saith pretend and professe to follow Luther in all things can haue none other meaning in this matter of the number of the sacraments of the new testament And Melancthon expressely discoursing of the term sacrament sheweth how diuerslie it maie be taken to comprehend two three or fowre And in the last edition of his common places where he answereth the articles of the Bauaricall inquisition he holdeth but two properlie to be called sacraments as Luther before him in his Catechisme the greater and the lesser Wherefore this friuolous cauill is thus easilie discussed to the shame of the cauiller and to the attestation of our consent in the matter and substance of trueth The like brable of wordes he maketh of the title of heade of the Church which Caluine and the Magdeburgeans doe mislike and Caluine in King Henrie found to be Antichristian but Caluines folowers in England do finde by onelie scripure to be moste Christian. Where all the dissention is in the terme which being rightlie vnderstood as by law it hath bene confirmed vnto the Prince conteineth no other authoritie then Caluine and all other professors of the Gospell do acknowledge to pertaine vnto the Christian magistrate and is prooued to be moste Christian not onelie by scripture but also by testimonie of the moste auncient and Catholike Fathers of the Church as it were easie to shew but that it is here no place to decide these controuersies The title of supreme head of the Church graunted to King Henrie Caluine saieth was blaspheomus not as it was vnderstoode of the godlie at that time but as it was applied by Stephen Gardiner who in a conference at Ratisbone cared not much for the testimonies of the scripture but said it was in the Kings power to abrogate decrees and to institute new ceremonies as to appoint daies of fasting abstinence from flesh c. And not staying there he proceeded further to affirme that it was lawfull for the King to forbid mariage vnto Priests to forbid the laie people to drinke of the cup in the Lords supper and generallie to commaund or for bid in his kingdome what he would because he had soueraigne authoritie This authoritie or the title in this sense neither our princes do accept neither doth anie godlie man allow vnto them A third example he bringeth of burning of heretikes wherein he saith The Protestants a greate while by onelie scripture defended against the Catholikes that no heretikes might be burned or put to death whereof large bookes are written on both partes Now they haue found by euident scripture that they maie be burned As though there were not controuersies enow betweene the Papists and the Protestants this man will needes make more as this of putting blasphemous heretikes to death which was neuer denied the scripture of stoning blasphemers false Prophets and Idolaters being so manifest A. nabaptists indeede and such like sectaries are lothe that heretikes should be punished with death But there hath bone long bookes saith he written thereof on both partes If you aske him by whome he biddeth you in the margent looke Eckius in Encher and Luther contra Latom. de incendiariis Would you not thinke this follow had read these treatises for burning of heretikes pro contra whereunto he sendeth vs to iustifie his saying of large bookes written on both partes but in truth he either neuer saw the bookes or els he is the moste impudent forger that euer was heard of for Fckius in his litle booke called Encheridion loco 27. de hereticis Comburendis
the scriptures of the authoritie of councels auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primitiue Church they binde them selues to nothing but to the present Popes authoritie and determi nation in thinges which he may choppe and chaunge at his pleasure against which they admitte neither scripture Councell Fathers nor Church For example brieflie The scripture moste plainlie forbiddeh the worshipping of Images will they giue soueraigne authoritie to the scriptures All the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ condemned the worshipping of Images euen Pope Gregorie that allowed the vse of them shall the authoritie of the primatiue Church or of Pope Gregorie in this point ouerrule them No I warrant you they will set them al to schoole and learne them a new lesson Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus and Gelasius Bishop of Rome doe in plaine wordes affirme that the substance of bread and wine doth remaine in the Lordes supper after consecration doth either the antiquitie of these fathers or the determination of the Bishop of Rome which otherwise they affirme neuer to erre in doctrine preuaile with them against their new here sie of transsubstantiation The councells of Constantiople the first and of Chalcedon decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie and dignitie with the Bishop of Rome The councells of Constans and Basill determined that the Councell is aboue the Pope The councels of Constantinople the sixt and Nice the second condemned the Pope for an heretike will the Papists of these daies trow you stand to the determination of these Councells you maie be assured they will not But the traditions of the Apostles they holde fast and binde them-selues vnto yea verilie as long and as much as they list What beareth a greater shew of the Apostles traditions then the Canons of the Apostles which excommunicate a Bishop priest or deacon that putteth away his wiffe vnder pretence of religion which excommunicate anie of the cleargie that is present at the communion doth not communicate except he shewe a cause whie he doth not Which admmitted him that is maimed in his eie or other partes of his bodie being otherwise worthie vnto the office of a Bishop because the maime of the bodie doth not pollute a man but the filthines of the soules These such like traditions of the Apostles how are they regarded of our Traditioners euen as much as they list and that is neuer a whit at this time and yet these men binde them selues to Councells Fathers traditions primitiue Church you see how farre Yea you see that while they raile vpon vs for appealing to onelie scriptures they themselues relie vpon the present Popes authoritie onelie Let all indifferent men therefore iudge whether it be more safe for a Christian man to bind him-selfe to the authoritie of scriptures onelie or to the Popes authoritie onelie and whether claime a priuiledge of ease they that will admitte no testimonie irrefragable but onelie the scripture or they which chattering of many other things in the end conclude vpon the Church onelie which when it commeth to triall is nothing els but the Pope onelie for if all the Church saie it and the Pope denie it it is nothing worth with them and if the Pope affirme it thoughe all the Church denie it it must stand for paiment But seeing the sense and interpretation of scripture is the cheefe matter we haue to speake of let vs consider whether Master Charke be iustlie charged by our answerer to haue abused that scripture by interpretation which is the chiefe ground of his preface and which he saith is a full and plaine rule whereby to discerne and trie the spirites namelie the text of Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. Euerie spirite which confesseth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is of God and euerie spirite which confesseth not Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of Antichrist c. This text Master Charke doth so expound as that it conteineth a confession not onelie of the person of Christ but also of his office for which office sake that wonderfull person of God and man Iesus Christ was ordeined and sent into the world to be a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his father by the obedience of faith And if any spiritte shall teach that Christ is not our onelie teacher by his Gospell but that we must admitte vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whome to be of like authoritie with the written worde Secondlie if any spirite make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holie spirite but teach that a mortal and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise binde or loose at his pleasure lastlie if anie spirite impeach the all-sufficiencie and entire vertue of Christes sacrifice offered vp once for euer and teach that themselues must enforce it from day to day by the continuance of their daylie sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick and the deade it appeareth manifestlie that such spirits are not of God c. This interpretation of Master Charke saith the answerer conteineth manie absurdities For first the auncient fathers did expound this place as of it selfe it is moste euident against the Iewes which denied Christ to haue taken flesh also against Ebion Cerinthus and other heretikes that denied the Godhead of Christ. Note here by the aduersaries confession that some places of scripture are of them selues moste euident whereof this is one against the Iewes other heretikes that deny the godhead of Christ. And I hope you shall see it shortly as euident against the Papists that denie his offices To this interpretation of the auncient fathers we agree that whosoeuer denieth the person of Christ or any thing proper to his person is of Antichrist But none of the auncient fathers doe affirme that this text is to be vnderstood against such enemies onelie as denie the Godhead or manhoode of Christ. For Augustine and Oecumenius do interpret it against all heretikes and schismatikes which although they confesse this matter in wordes yet denie it in deedes and Oecumenius against all wicked persons which haue not the spirite of Christ mortifying their vngodlie lustes which carie not the mortification of Christ in their bodie c. Augustine also expoundeth the place against all that breake charitie Omnes negant Iesum Christum in carne venisse qui violant charitatem All they denie Iesus Christe to haue come in the flesh which doe breake or violate charitie whie so because not onelie the person that came but the end whie he came must be considered in the interpretation of this place as Saint Augustine rightlie iudgeth or els all heretikes will after a manner in tongue and wordes confesse that Iesus Christ came in the flesh But Quaeramus saith
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
you both to wil and to be hable to do for his owne good pleasure whereupon we conclude that though a man is willed to worke his owne saluation by walking in that waie which god hath appointed for them that shal be saued yet he can doe nothing by his owne strength but all that he doth is of the grace of god for by grace you are saued through faith that not of your selues it is the gift of God To be short we make not the grace of God an helper onelie but a wholl doer and bringer to passe in vs of our saluation and of all thinges tending thereto For we are not apt of our selues as of our selues to thinke anie thing belonging thereto but our aptnes is of God Nor I saith Saint Paul but the grace of God which is with me Againe we haue infinit places of scripture to prooue that a man ought not to dout of his saluatiō in respect of the truth of Gods promises although we ought to feare trem ble at Gods iudgements and although we cannot be alwaies voide of feare in respect of our own weakenes Furthermore they haue expresselie doe ye the worthie fruites of penance Luc. 3. we haue no where that faith onelie is sufficient without all satisfaction and all other workes of penance on our partes The fruites worthie of repentance we acknowledge to be necessaire to declare vnfained repentance but not for satisfaction of Gods iustice which is blasphemous against the satisfaction of Christes death But that a faith which is fruitles or voide of the workes of repentance should be sufficient to saluation or Iustification we doe vtterlie deny as a thing contrary to the scriptures Yet againe they haue expresselie that euerie man shal be saued according to his workes Apo. 20. we haue no where that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith We confesse as the text is that euerie man shal be iudged according to his workes and so perhaps he would haue saide if the corrector had done his part neither doe we affirme that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith for triall of their faith shal be made by their workes Once againe they haue expresselie that there remaineth aretribution stipend and paie to euery good worke in heauen Marc. 9. 1. Cor. 3. Apoc. 22. Ps. 118. we haue as he saith no where that good workes done in Christ do merite nothing In the 3. text quoted out of the new testament is all one word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth a rewarde whether it be freelie giuen or deserued by laboure To him that worketh saith Saint Paule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rewarde is not accompted according to grace but according to debt But God is debter to no man Neither is there anie merit of good workes once named in the scriptures but against the merit of good workes Christ saith epxresselie when you haue done all thinges that are commaunded vnto you saie we are vnprofitable seruants and the paie wages stipend merite or desert of an vnprofitable seruant is shewed Matt. 25. 30. Cast out the vnprofitable seruant into vtter darkenesse there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth It is therfore the grace mercie and trueth of Gods promise whereby we claime rewarde and not the merites desert or debt of our good workes To that he saieth they haue expresselie praier and sacrifice for the dead in the second of the Maccaebees We answer that booke of Macabes to be no holie Scripture out of which he might haue expresselie a man commended for killing himselfe Whether Angels present good workes and almesdeedes before God and whether Saintes departed do praie for them that are aliue which he gathereth out of the Apocriphal bookes of Tobie and the Maccabes we make no question as of matters not reuealed in the canonicall scriptures But if they were graunted to be so yet it followeth not that men aliue must or may praie to Angels or Saintes departed Last of all out of the canonicall scripture he saieth they haue expresselie that the affliction which Daniell vsed vpon his bodie was acceptable in the sight of God Dan. 10. and we haue no where that such voluntarie corporall afflictions are in vaine But which of vs saith that such voluntarie corporall affliction as Daniell vsed and to such end as he did vse them are in vaine No man verilie You see therefore that while he boasteth of expresse words of scripture against vs he is driuen either to glose vpon the text or to faine some opinion vnto vs which we holde not at all and that all his bragges are but winde and wordes without matter as of one that-fcareth no shame because his heade is hidden The third waie of triall is necessarie collections made and inferred vpon the scriptures which we are willing to acknowledge and admitte to be of as great authoritie as the expresse words of the scripture But to discerne what is necessarie collection and what is not necessarie collection when there is no expresse wordes of scripture there is no certaine waie but the iudgement of Logicke for that onelie is necessarie collection which out of expresse words of scripture or articles of faith or other groundes confessed to be necessarilie gathered out of the holie scripture may be rightly concluded in a true and lawfull syllogisme whatsoeuer cannot be so concluded is no necessarie collection But our answerer saith we must referre our selues to the auncient primitiue Church for this meaning and his reason is For it is like they knew it best for that they liued nearer to the writers thereof then we doe who could well declare vnto them what was the meaning of the same we doe willinglie yeald to consult with the auncient primitiue Church to be holpen with their collections but to admit all their collections without examining them were to admit many errors that euen the Papists doe condemne for errors and which are reprooued by the scriptures them-selues Let one example serue in stead of manie S. Ierome collecteth out of this scripture It is good not to touch a woman that therefore it is euill to touch a woman Euerie man doth see that this is an vnnecessary collection and so are many other in the auncient fathers writings Wherefore we must vse the gift of knowledge of right gathering and concluding which God hath giuen not to be vnprofitable vnto his Church but to be both beneficiall and necessarie Againe marke the feeble reason vpon which our answerer groundeth his saying It is like they knew it best he cannot say it is necessarie that they knew it best then how prooueth he that it is like because they liued neerer to the writers then we doe who could well declare the meaning vnto them In deede if we had the writings of them that liued so neere vnto the Apostles that they might heare their meaning of their owne mouthes it were some likeliehood and yet no necessarie proofe
which truelie comprehendeth all thinges vniuersallie These wordes in rehearsing the saying of Vincentius our answerer could not beare and therefore left them out bragging of vniuersalitie antiquitie and consent whereby his aduersaries spirit might quicklie be tried But let him once attempt to trie anie one peece of Poperie by this rule of Vincentius and so shew it to be Catholike as he describeth Catholike and he shall finde it an harder matter to performe then to talke of examining his point by the authenticall writings of the most auncient doctors for 200. yeares after Christ. The seuenth waie of triall is succession of Popes in the seate of Rome wherein the successor alwaies teaching the doctrine of his predecessor it must needes be a strong argument to prooue the descent and continuance of one the same faith from the Apostles time This argument is vsed by Saint Augustine and Optatus against the Manichees and Donatistes But this waie of triall he knoweth his aduersaries will not admit But he is deceiued for seeing he ioyneth succession in doctrine with succession in place let him make triall when he dare and prooue that Peter and all the Bishops of Rome that liued for foure fiue or six hundred yeares after Christ did holde all points of Poperie and had none other faith then the Papists haue now Some of the later mightholde some few and of the best errors But let them shew all in euerie one and take all but that shall thev neuer be able to doe brag they of succession as long as they list The eight waie of triall is to examine what part doth holde any olde condemned heresie for the true Church can neuer admit or defend any heresie for otherwise she could not be the piller of truth The true Church may erre in matters which are not of necessitie to saluation yet be the piller of trueh so long as she holdeth al truth necessarie to saluation yea some true Church may be seduced for a time with hereticall opinions as the Churches of Corinth and Galatia but not obstinately defend them nor continue in them For of a particuler Church as the Church of Ephesus the Apostle speaketh wherein Timothie had his conuersation But we beleeue saith the answerer with holie Athanasius in his creede that he which holdeth not the faith whollie in all points shall perish eternallie howsoeuer our aduersaries doe salue the matter in their Prophets Berengarius Husse Wicklife and Luther whome they saie to haue bene holie men and yet to haue erred in diuerse pointes offaith and to haue held their errors obstinatlie to the daie of their death And we beleeue with holie Athanasius that whoesoeuer shall not holde that Catholike faith which he or whoesoeuer vnder his name setteth downe in that Symbole or creed wholl and vndefiled without doubt he shall perish eternallie But not euerie one that erreth in any small point of doctrine or faith which is not of the foundation of our religion For so doth not Athanasius saie and our aduersarie falsisieth both his wordes and meaning to drawe him to that sense of his Now if Berengarius Wicklife Husse Luther cannot be conuinced of any heresie contrarie to Athanasius Creede though they erred in other points they are not subiect to his sentence of eternall damnation more then Cyprian Augustine Hierome whoe erred also in some points of doctrine yet are rightlie accounted saints and elect of God as they which held the foundation and all articles of faith necessarie to saluation But where he chargeth vsto saie that Berengarius Husse c. did erre in diuerse points of faith meaning thereby diuerse articles of Athanasius Creede he doth vs and them great iniury for that we neither saie nor thinke neither saie we that they did obstinatelie holde those errors wherein they were deceiued although they did stiflie holde them not as heretikes which are condemned in their owne conscience but as men deceiued with zeale of truth euen in those points wherin they were deceiued But we beleeue saith he the contrarie by which beliefe he will condemne the best and most auncient Catholike fathers who as men helde euerie one of them for the moste parte one error as hath bene shewed But whoesoeuer coulde shew saith he but one confessed heresie to be defended by our Church there needed no more disputation about the matter It will be a hard matter to make the Papists confesse that their Church holdeth any heresie but it hath beene often shewed that the Popish Church holdeth many things of olde time condemned for heresie as worspiping of the Image of Christ in the Carpocratites and Gnostikes Inuocation of Angels in the Caianes licensing of women to Baptize in the Marcionites worspiping of Angels of men and women that are dead in the Collyridians and such like But for the right vse of this triall he requireth two conditions to be obserued The first is that the partie do in deede holde that which is obiected and not a certaine likelyhood of it in which point he chargeth vs to slaunder them with the heresie of Pelagius concerning free will who held that men without the helpe of Gods grace by the power and force of nature could worke well but they require that a man should be preuented and holpen with the grace of God In trueth we do not obiect vnto them all articles of Pelagius heresie but yet they are not free for Pelagius held that by the power of nature men might keepe Gods law but more easelie by the help of Gods grace the former the Papists holde not but they holde the latter that a man holpen with Gods grace hath free-will and power to keepe Gods law Their doctrine also of merite ex congruo of workes preparatorie before grace and such like are nothing els but branches of the Pelagian heresie The like iniurie he saith we do them in objecting the heresie of those that did sacrifice to our Ladie which they do not A great iniurie I promise you the Collyridians offered cakes onelie to her the Papists offer candels ouches and brouches monie and Iewels The Collyridians did garnish a charret where her Image was the Papists adorne tabernacles as they call them yea chappels altars and Churches to worship her Epiphanius condemneth the studie of making her Image and the Images of dead saints as a deuellish attempt He inueigheth most seuerelie against the worshipping of the virgine Marie of Angels and of saintes departed yetall this is Catholike among the Papists and we offer them iniurie to charge them with this olde heresie because they do not offer cakes as the Collyridians did The second condition is that the heresie obiected be accounted condemned for an heresy in the Primitiue Church not onelie held by an heretike for heretikes held manie trueths together with their heresies And here he complaineth that Doctor Fulke doth them wrong in saying that praiers for the dead is an heresie because the Montanistes which were
third question you haue what difference is betweene these speaches namelie of proceeding and begotten which question you saie with the rest though Master Charke seeme ignorant in them all and not to vnderstand so much as the verie 〈◊〉 themselues yet Catholike diuines know what the Church hath determined herein But concerning this question Saint Augustine shall answere for our ignorance Cont. Maximin lib. 3. cap. 14. Quid autem inter nasci procedere incersit de illa excellentissima natura loquens explicare quis potest Non omne quod procedit nascitur quamuis omne procedar quod nascitur 〈◊〉 omne quod bipes est homo est quam nis bipes sit omnis qui homo est haec scio Distinguere autem inter illam generationem hanc processionem nescio non valeo non sufficio Ac per hoc quia illa ista est ineffabilis stcut Propheta de filio loquens alt Generationem eius quis enarrabit ita de spiritu sancto verissimè dicitur processionem eius quis enarrabit c. What difference is betweene begotten proceeding speaking of that moste excellent nature whoe is able to expresse Not all that proceedeth is begotten although al proceedeth that is begotten As not euerie two legged thing is a man although euerie one is two legged that is a man Those thinges I know But to distinguish betweene that generation and this procession I know not I am not able I am not sufficient And for this reason because both that and this is vnspeakeable as the Prophet speaking of the sonne saith whoe shall declare his generation so of the holie ghost it is saide moste trulie whoe shall declare his procession This is Saint Augustines iudgement of this question Yea this is the Master of the sentences iudgement also as well of this question as of the proceeding of the sonne from the father against you Yet you saie of these as wel of as the other they are no lesse to be beleeued then other mysteries of the trinitie wherewith your conclusion is that you would not haue troubled Master Charke if you had supposed him so grosse therein as by examination you finde him Alacke poore Sir William A lacke for pitie what high points of learning you haue shewed which in the Master of the sentences whome soeuer he wil of an hundred schoolemen that wrote vpon him euerie sophister may finde mooued debated and defined in lesse then one daies studie no meruaill then if Master Charke be so grosse in them as you by examination finde him But while you in your owne imagination are so subtile in them that you thinke your crest perceth the clowdes you haue bewraied more shamefull proude ignorance then any of vs would haue suspected that it might be found in such a great Champion of the Papistes such a Lorde he censuter such a doughtie defender When in some of the questions propounded by your selfe you neither know the doctrine of the scripture the iudgement of the auncient fathers the determination of your Church nor the conclusion of your owne schoole doctors in whole mysteries neuertheles you would seeme to be an other Mercurie For the rest of the handes that you draw against Doctor Fulke you are answered in this consutation of popish quarrelles from pag. 48. vntill pag. 55. And where you saie that euerie litle gesse at our pleasure is sufficient to prooue what we will whereas no testimonies of your part will serue except they be so plaine and euident as by no waits they maie be auoyded and thereupon charge vs to be Lordes of the scriptures it is as manie other of yours a detestable slaunder For as I haue shewed before in matters necessarie to saluation we admit no gesses but either manifest wordes of scripture or els that which is necessarilie concluded out of manifest wordes and principles confessed and such if you haue anie bring them forth and we will hearken vnto them Ouer against the article of punishing heretiks by death which you saie was a long time denied by our selues to be allowable by scripture you note in the margent Luther against Latomus de incendiariis of burners For what purpose I maruell seeing in that booke he complaineth of the Louanistes not for burning heretikes but for burning of his bookes For the mention which Saint Paull is thought of some to make of an Epistle written to the Laodicenses you are not a litle netled that Master Chark condemneth both you and Saint Ieromes translation of ignorance You saie he should not obiect ignorance so peremptorilie to you you ought not so rigorously to haue beene reprehended and you name a great manie auncient writers which may be sufficient to wipe awaie Master Charkes bitter reproch against you But let vs see howrigorously and bitterly he hath delt with you yea how peremtorilie he obiecteth ignorance to you by his own wordes The Episile to the Laodiceans although manie make mention of it Paull maketh none so that either you ignorantlie passed ouer the greeke or willfullie addicted your selfe to the olde translation being in this place plainlie corrupted For by the originall Paull speaketh of an Epistle from Laodicea and not writen to the Laodicenses as you vntrulie assirme Here is all that he saieth you are a daintie Parnell that count your selfe so rigorouflie reprehended and so bitterlie reproched in those wordes where ignorance is not peremptorilie obiected as you saie but either that or willful addiction to the olde translation which I know not vpon what ground you doe so peremtorilie call S. Ieromes translation Master Charke hath more cause to complaine of you for that you affirme that he saith the greeke text hath of an Epistle written by S. Paull from Laodicea For he saith not an Epistle written by Saint Paull but from Laodicea by whome soeuer it was written Where you cite manie that thought mention to be made of one written by Saint Paull to the Laodiceans he confesseth as much But it is more against Master Charke that you haue two Greeke editions the one of Pagnine the other of Plantine which make for you as you affirme But what if you be deceiued in them as great a clarke as you would seeme to be that maie not be touched with the least suspicion of ignorance The most of the copies both printed and written haue 〈◊〉 the Epistle from Laodicea Your two editions leaue out the preposition and then it must be translated that Epistle of Laodicea which it seemeth your vulgar interpreter followed in sense though not in wordes which saith eam quae Laodicensiumest that which is of the Laodiceans Where is there now in anie of these that which maketh for you that Saint Paull speaketh of an Epstle written by him to the Laodicenses For the Epistle of Laodicea which your two greeke editions haue and the Epistle of the Laodicenses which your vulgar translation hath cannot signifie an Epistle written to the Laodicenses but from
Secondlie he speaketh of the fourth daies or Wednesdaies fast to be appointed by the tradition of the Apostles which yet neuerthelesse the Romish Church doth not obserue Thirdlie that the Pente cosse or fiftie daies by the tradition of Apostles are exempted from the Fridaie fast which tradition is not kept in the Popes Church except you will saie that Pentecost is taken for whitson weeke and then the custome of the PopishChurch is directlie contrarie to the tradition of the Apostles for Wednesdaie and Fridaie that weeke are 〈◊〉 daies And as for the Wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie Epiphanius is so earnest that he addeth further Deinde verò st non de eodem argumento quartarum Prosabbatorum ijdem Apostoli in constitutione dixissent etiamaliter vndique demonstrare possemus Attamen de hoc exactè scribunt Assumpsit autem ecclesta in toto mundo assensus factus est c. And moreouer if the same Apostles in their constitutions had not spoken of the same argument of wednesdaies Fridaies we could otherwise throughly make proofe of it But they write exactly ofit and the Church hath taken it vp assent hath bin geuen in al the world You see he alledgeth not onely a decree of the Apostles but also the consent of all the world for the wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie fast So that if the Apostles tradition beside the scripture be necessarie for lent whie is it not also for wednesdaies fast And if wednesdaies faste is not necessarie no more is lent fast Further you affirme that Dionystus and Tertullian saie that praiers and oblations for the dead are traditions of the Apostles De Eccles. hier c. 7. de corona milit but Dionystus al beit we do not acknowledge him for a man of such antiquitie as the papists would obtrude him yet hath not any mention of traditions of the Apostles in that Chap ter touching praier for the dead but either of tradition in scripture orels at large endeuoring to prooue that he saith by scripture Tertullian in the place quoted speaketh onelie of oblations for the dead in that yearelie day which maie signifie thanksgiuing as pro nataliliis for their birth doth in in the verie same clause Not denying yet but Tertullian when he forsooke the Church and became a Montanist yealed to praier for the dead as a thing reuealed by the spirit aud new prophecie of Montanus Last of all you saie Saint Basill teacheth that the consecration of the fant before baptisme the exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized their anointing with holie chrisme and diuerse like thinges are deliuered to vs by prescript of Christ and his Apostles lib. de spi. 5. cap. 27. Of consecration or blessing of the water to the holie vse of baptisme of those that are to be baptized there neede no tradition to be alledged the scripture is sufficient in the institution of baptisme whereby both the water and the perfon are dedicated to God aud his holie worke of regeneration The anointing with chrisme seemeth at the first to haue beene the signe of the giftes of the holie Ghost which were wont to be graunted with baptisme which though it had beene vfed by the Apostles in baptisme yet that particular grace being ceased which to signifie it was vsed it hath no longer anie profitable vse in the Church As for exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized Is is your owne addition for Saint Basill hath it not But where you saie he hath diuers like thinges as deliuered by traditian it is verie true and among them this sor example that it is necessarie for the children of the Church to praie standing on the Lords daie But this necessitie euen in the popish Church is notacknowledged therefore whatsoeuer he saieth is a tradition of the Apostles is necessarieto be kept of all Christians although all the Church in his time beleeued it as that which Epiphanius reporteth of the wednesdaies fast before spoken of You demaund vpon what ground you shall discredit or reiect these traditions deliuered by such fathers cheife Doctors and pillers of the Church Euen by the same ground that you giue ouer other traditions deliuered by the same persones either because they are not true traditions or els because they are not necessarie for the Church albelt they were deliuered as no doubt some ceremoniall matters were euen by the Apostles them selues Your other reasons are friuolous That they were neerer the Apostles then we For the neerest and moste immediat successours to the Apostles Policarpus and Anicetus could not agree vpon the tradition of the Apostles one of them building vpon Iohn the other vpon Peter as is testified by Eusebius out of Irenaeus in the place before cited An other reason is that they were honest men and would not deceiue vs willinglie And so much we acknowledge yet might they be deceiued in ascribing the common practise of their time to Apostolike tradition and so deceiue vs vnwittinglie nor be controlled because the custome generall acceptation of that ceremonie restreined men Which things considered it is a great iniquitie as Master Charke saieth to adde traditions to the written word of God as if of it selfe it were not sufficient to instruct the Church in all thinges necessarie to saluation That which followeth of Doctor Fulkes handling the olde Fathers about traditions is answered by himselfe in his confutation of popish quarrells from pag. 55. to pag 61. After this you cite foure seuer all Doctors in defence of traditions vnwritten whereunto as some of auncient writers were too much inclined so haue you not so sure ground out of them for your popish traditions as you purpose And to beginne with Basill who by Apostolike traditiō defendeth the custome of the Church which was to sing Glorie be to the Father and to the sonne with the holie Ghost whereas the heretikes would haue it in the holie Ghost and cauilled that the other forme was not in the scriptures Saint Basil mainteineth it as agreeable to the scriptures by authoritie of auncient tradition although it were not expressed in so manie wordes in the scriptures as manie other thinges are which haue like force vnto pietie with those that are dilinered in expresse wordes as for example he alledgeth the confession of the faith in the 〈◊〉 which no man doubteth to be sufficientlie tanght in the scriptures although the verie wordes of our creed are not expressed in such for me As we rehearse our creede I omit 〈◊〉 things saieth he the verie confession of faith in which we beleeue in the father the sonne the holie Ghost in what scripture haue we it Againe And if they doe reiect the manner of glorifying of god as not written let them bring forth demonstration in writing of the confession of faith of other things that we rehearse By which it is manifest that the traditions he speaketh of are of two sortes the one
of Colene in a moste apt similitude called the scripture a nose of waxe and Pighius the leaden rule of the Lesbian building But now concerning the matter it selfe You would shift it of by saying The Iesuites doe compare the hereticall wresting and detorting of scripture vnso the bowing of a nose of waxe vpon certaine circumstances which are these First not in respect of the scripture it selfe but in respect of heretikes and other that abuse it and that before the rude people that cannot iudge thirdlie to the ende to flatter Princes or the people in their vices Thus much was said before in the Censure But it was replied that Andradius confesseth the fathers of Colene doe saie that the holie scripture is as a nose of wax So doth Pighius and it is a thing more commonlie knowen then that it can be denied Therefore the wresting of the scripture is not compared by them to the bowing of a waxen nose but the scripture it selfe to a nose of wax as that which is as easie to be drawne into any sense as a nose of wax may be turned euerie waie The wordes of Pighius are plaine Sunt enim scripturae velut caereus quidam nasus qui sicut hor sum illor sumque facilè se trahi permittit quo traxeris haud inuitus sequitur ita illae se flecti duci atque etiam in diuer sam sententiam trahi accomodarique ad quid-uis patiuntur nist quis veram illam inflexibilemque earundem amussim nempe Ecclesiasticae traditionis authoritatem communemque sententiam ilsdem adhibeat For the holie scriptures are as it were a certaine nose of wax which as it easelie suffereth it selfe to be drawne this waie and that waie and whether soeuer you draw it is followeth not vnwillinglie so also they doe suffer them selues to be bowed to be led and also to be drawen into a contrarie meaning and to be applied vnto what you will except a man lay vnto them that true inflexible rule of them namelie the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Churches tradition These wordes declare if the sense of all Papists be the same that the Iesuites do not onelie compare the scripture it selfe but also that they make this comparison in respect of the scripture it selfe which suffereth it selfe as easelie to be wrested and abused as a nose of wax abideth to be bowed nor before the rude and ignorant onelie nor to flatter Princes and people in their vices alone but before any persons or to any purpose whatsoeuer and that there is not in them a certaine and infallible sense to iudge of the Churches doctrine or to finde out the true Church from all false congregations by the trueth taught in the scriptures but that the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Popish Churches tradition is the onelie true sense inflexible rule of the holy scriptures wherebie also it is manifest though you denie it neuer so stoutlie that you doe impute the wresting of the scriptures vnto the imperfection of Gods worde set forth in them and not onelie to the malice of the wrester For if the will of God be but as well expressed in them as the will of princes is in their written lawes and proclamations the one maie as well be found out by reading and weighing of the holie scriptures as the other may be out of prophane writings especially where the spirit of God graunted vnto the praiers of the elect openeth their vnderstanding not onelie to conceiue as the naturall man maie by studie and ordinarie helpes the true scope and purpose of God vttered in them but also to beleeue and embrace whatsoeuer the Lord their God hath propounded in them Therefore though the scripture may be wrested to the destruction of the vngodlie as Saint Peter sheweth yet Master Charke telleth you that it cannot so be wrested but that still it remaineth the light vnto our feet and the lanterne vnto our steppes and euerie parte thereof is like the arme of a great Oke which cannot be so wreste but that with great force it will returne into the right position to the shame and perill of the wrester which answere of his you doe so dissemble as though you had neuer seene it And you doe wiselie seeing otherwise then by silence you could not auoid it But howsoeuer Master Charke storme you will defend your blasphemie of the nose of waxe not onelie in a kingdome where the Ghospell is preached but also in the kingdome of vs ministers where the letter of the scripture is worsse wrested by vs to all errors and licentiousnes then euerie waxen nose was yet bended to diuerse fashions O ye senseles papists had you neuer a man of moderat iudgement to set forth against vs but this loosetongued Gentelman which so he maie raile with full mouth against vs hath no care how his slaunders maie be coloured Doe we peruert the scriptures to all errors then surelie we holde no trueth there neuer was anie heresie neither can there be anie heresie but that with manie errors it maintaineth and holdeth manie truethes Yea the Deuill him-selfe the father oflies beleeueth some truethes and for shame dare not professe the maintenance of all errors We thinke verie hardlie of Antichrist and his brood the papists yet we maie not saie that they wrest the scriptures to all errors and licentiousnes for if they so did they should not deceaue so manie by shew of trueth in errors except they did professe some articles of trueth in deede As for the wresting of the Scripture to all licentiousnes let God and all the world of reasonable and indifferent men iudge how iustlie we maie be charged therewith If we be licentious in our liues God will finde it out and let man where he findeth it punish vs. But if we wilfully peruert the scriptures to the maintenance of all licentiousnes the Lord reward vs according to our deedes and be not mercifull to them that sinne of malicious wickednes But it is no fault in the scriptures saie you that they may be abused For Christ him-selfe was called the rocke of offence and the stone of scandall not for anie faulte or imperfection in him but through the wickednes of such as abuse that benefit So if the Iesuites had said no more but that the scripture maie be abused no man could haue found fault with them And Christ is called a stone of offence or stumbling not altogether in respect of the wicked that abuse him for he is called a stone moste precious and necessarie to build vpon of stumbling to those that refuse to build vpon him which meeting with him must either stumble and fall or els if it fall vpon them they must be ground to pouder But the the scripture is compared to a nose os wax because it is in their imagination that vse the comparison as pliant to follow euerie waie and to yeald as probable a sence one waie as an other as
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
priest of god were placed But the dishonour and the derogation that now is done to the much more excellent office st anacth vpon vnfaithfullnes mistrust of Gods promise loue of sin liking of libertie loth somnes of truth and vnminde fullnes of saluation In which case though neither the heauens yeald fire for the present punishment nor the earth open for their speedie passage to eternall paine yet the perpetuall fight which they keepe against Gods ordinance their disordered life and disobedience their darknesse of vnderstanding in such light of approoued trueth and the continuall course of the Church which inmarucilous miserie they doe willinglie susteine doth me thinke fullie resemble the lamentable slate of the damned and for saken sorte and therefore being yet a liue in goodliking and libertie I feare they wittinglie and wilfullie perish FVLKE And we nothing doubt but the contempt of the ministers of the ghospel is a greater offence thē theirs which despised the ministers of the Lawe 2. Cor. 3. But that our neglect of popipsh shrist for which we are so heinouslie accused should stand vpon vnfaithfulnes or mistrust of Gods promise it is verie incredible but for that the faithful trust of gods promises without any such ordinance of man offereth vs free remission of our sinnes we are bolde to reiect it And that loue of sinne and liking of libertie therein should mooue vs to refuse popish absolution it is altogether vnlikelie For where absolution maie be bought for a litle monie at the hands of men who is so madde to present him selfe before the Iudgement seat of God and who that delighteth in sinne will not thinke to haue libertie therein when he maie compound with his iudges for a trifling matter in such cases as deserue eternall damnation As for the hell in which Allen placeth vs aliue is like the purgatorie in which he teacheth men to be placed when they are dead For what ordinance of God doth he dreame of against which we should fight popish priesthoode shrist and pardons they are not yet nor euer shal be prooued to be gods ordinance And what discord seeth he in our life more then the common frailtie of mortall men which neuer be free srom sinning or greater then euerie man maie see in the liues of popish Priests and people Touching disobedience lettreason and rebellion speake whether they be found in vs or in them Finallie our darknes of vnderstanding in so great light of Allens approoued trueth when it appeareth shall either argue vs to be verie blinde or Allen to dreame when he is awake And the continuall course of the Church if it bring not Allen into a confused case worse then purgatorie before he can shew it for popish shrift and pardons we refuse not to lie in such an hell as he placeth vs vntill he and his fellowes of their charitie will say maste to bring vs out of it ALLEN And yet I am not so void of all hope of their recouerie that I would refuse to conferre with them touching that aut horitie of remission of sinnes or other preheminence which the Priests of Christes Church doe clayme and they so ear they so earnestlie controll Though the rather I would do it for the helpe of the more humble sorte which in these daies of disobedience be rather driuen out of the waie by force of the common tempest then by malice or misbehauiour towards the ministerie whome in Christes name I must aducrtise to consider carefullie in what doubt and daunger they and all their dearest do stand in this pitifull vacation and long lack of the practize of priesthood for the remission of their sinnes and other needefull succour of their soules For if Christ by whose blood we obtaine pardon of our offences haue by his ordinance made man the minister of our reconciliation to God and the bestower of his mercie in remission of sinnes then doubtles whosoeuer neglecteth to walke the knowen waie of saluation and refuseth the ordinarie meanes of mercie which Christ meaneth to be applied to our vse none otherwise but by the office of mortall men he liueth in sinne perpetuallie he dieth in sinne without hope of recouerie and for sinne without doubt shall perish euerlastinglie Therefore the matter of so great importance standing on so doubtfull termes it were no wisdome to sleepe so soundlie in such present peril nor to continue without care and singular respect of most dreadefull state In which if we passe our daies without hope or possibilitie of Gods mercie because we refuse mans ministerie then all our life and studies all our paines or pleasures all our workes and waies doe nothing els but driue vs in disobedience to extreame death and desperation FVLKE Though I haue small hope of your recouerie which so long haue bin frosen in the dregs of popish heresie yet wil I not refuse to confer with you after this manner or anie other that is conuenient both to iustifie such contempt of Popish priesthood and pardons as we teach and also to let the doubtfull sorte plainlie see that such vsurpation as you pretende to maintaine hath no good ground either in scripture or in the moste auncient writers or practize of the eldest and syncerest primitiue Church of Christ. As for that point which you take such pains to prooue that the contempt of mans ministerie for reconciliation vnto God and remission of sinnes bringeth damnation is no matter of controuersie betweene vs for we beleeue confesse and teach euen as much and in as manie wordes readie to subscribe and sweare to the same if it were lawfullie required of vs. But whether it be the ordinance of Christ that Popish priestes Bishoppes and Pope him selfe should exact auricular confession as they do and giue absolution and pardon in such manner as they vse this I saie is that which you should occupie your style in for this is that which we denie ALLEN I make the more matter hereof for that not onelie such as be led into folly falsehood by the persuasion of some to whose teaching and lyking they haue vnaduisedlie addicted them-selues but also diuerse euen of the faithfull that be not fallen thanks be giuen to God so farre as to contemne the Church and Christes appointed ordinance are not yet so touched as in such case of extreame miscrie Christen men should be For heresie is such a creeping and contagiouse canker that albeit she vtterlie through mercie and Gods grace kill not all yet she dulleth the conscience drieth vp the zeale and infecteth the mindes of moste The like lack of Christian comforte hath beene often els amongest the people in such stormes of the Church but so litle care and consideration therof I do not lightlie remember In the persecution of the Vandalles and Arian Gothes in Affrike the people of God were siuered from their pastours and thereby wanted succour of their soules as we now do but thereof they conceaued such greife and heauines that it is
FVLKE In that you allow no necessitie that should driue any man to take any sacrament of such as you count heretikes but onelie the sacraments of baptisme and penance in present perill of death and yet account the receiuing of sacraments so necessarie you insinuat whereunto you would bring the matter if it laie in your power and perswasion Your late attemptes by excommuncations and inuasion haue made open your meaning But he that sitteth in heauen shall laugh you to scorne the Lord him-selfe shall haue you in derision and all reasonable men shall thinke you ridiculous while by declaming generallie against heresie and the hurt that cometh thereby you labour to bring your falsehood into credit and the trueth into disdaine It is a great part of popish rhetoricke in these daies to enueie mightelie and eloquentlie against schisme heresie salsehood errors c. let the triall goe whether partie maie be iustlie charged with these crimes But Master Allen albeit he liketh that kinde of disputing and vseth it much him-selfe yet his purpose is in this treatise to examine the matter so throughly that men shal be able not onelie to vnderstand the trueth in their mindes but also to feele it with their handes Of which trueth he hath so great assurance that he sweareth as deepelie as anie Christian man can doe not onelie that he doubteth nothing but also that he can neuer mistrust anie point of that faith in which he was new borne baptized How wel he performeth this large promise as also of such moderation as he wil vse in touching the inmous persons of his aduersaries the booke following will declare wherein if auricular confession be so sensi blie prooued out of the holie scriptures as he maketh vaunt it shal be I my selfe will ioine with him that if it were ten times as burt henous as it seemeth to be no Christian man ought wilfully to omit it in paine of eter nall damnation but if the scriptures of God will afford no commaundement for it and the moste auncient Catholike Church on earth neuer thought it necessarilie to be required I maie reasonablie require that such as thought it needles before this treatise was written when they see as much as can be said for it to be disprooued they will acknowledge that without tyranie to mens consciences it cannot be imposed That Christ did forgiue sinnes not onelie by proper power and nature as he was God but also by ministerie as he was a man and as he was a Priest and head of the Church and that vpon that ground the priests power in remitting sinnes in the Church doth stand THE FIRST CHAP. ALLEN CHrist Iesus the Sonne of the liuing God being euerlastinglie of the same substance power and nature that his Father and the holie Ghost be of as being equall and one God with them both worketh mightelie all thinges in heauen and in eartb iointlie with them both and therefore by excellencie of power propertie of nature and by full and perfect dominion ouer his owne creature he remitteth mans sinnos by the same soueraingne right that they do Who being thus in all excellencie equall with God hath notwithstanding vouchsafed of his singular bountifullnes ioined with maruelous humilitis to abase him-selfe to the receiuing of our nature in which now he hath wrought the same thinges in earth by seruice sute and commission which before he onelie did by might and maiestie of his owne power procure Euen the selfe same God that by will and commaundement might most iustly both haue punished and pardoned whome he list of loue and wisdome infinite continuing alwaies in like excellencie as before became the minister of our reconcilement to God In which state he offereth sacrifice as a Priest for sinne he vseth sacramentes for the remission of sinne he praied to God his Father for the sinnefull he is made the head of the Church the Gouernour of the Church and the iudge of the Church All which functions perteine to our Sauiour in respect and consideration of his humane nature according vnto which power is giuen him of the Father thorugh the holie Ghost to practise the same FVLKE THat the ignorant be not ouertaken with the subtiltie of this Sophister which to deriue his popish absolution from the perso of our sauiour Christ plaieth on while the Nestorian another while the Eutichian It shal be good for them to remember what they are taught in their Creed concerning the person of Christ which is verie God and verie man consisting of two moste diuers natures so vnited into one person as they maie neither be deuided nor confounded without horrible blasphemie In which person ech nature so retaineth the essentiall proprieties of it selfe vnconfounded or destroied that he is but one person our Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ. Whereupon it followeth that some actions arepeculiar to his godhead some proper to his manhood and some proceeding iointlie from him as he is God and man As God he worketh euen as his Father he knoweth the th oughts of mens heartes he knoweth the last daie whereof he is ignorant as man Againe that he did eate drinke sleepe sorrow die it was proper to his humanitie Finallie that he preached the Gospell wrought miracles offered sacrifice for our sinnes rose againe c. and such like thinges he did as the Mediatour God and man And although by reason of the vnitie of the person that is often spoken of the whole person which is peculiar to either nature or of God which is proper to man or of man which is proper to God yet to preserue the essentiall properties of ech nature we must wiselie distinguish that which is proper vnto the diuinitie from that which is proper vnto the humanitie whereof we see Master Allen hath small regard while he affirmeth that all these functions of Christ whereby he offereth sacrifice as a Priest vseth sacramentes praied to God is made the head of the Church the gouernour of the Church and the iudge of the Church pertaine vnto him in respect and consideration of his humane nature For of the sacrifice ofhim-selfe the Apostle expresselie affirmeth that it was made by his eternall spirit which being offered by an inferior nature could not haue beene acceptable vnto God Heb. 9. 14. Also that Christ God and man is the head of the Church and aduanced in his humanitie to be iudge of the worlde it is in respect and consideration ofhis godhead vnto which his humanitie is vnited For as he is the image of the inuisible God by whome all thinges are created in heauen and earth he is the head of his bodie the Church Col. 1. 15. c. And the Apostle Phil. 2. 10. shewing his exaltation from the base shape of a Seruant to be the most honorable iudge of the world vsing the words of the Prophet Esaie cap. 45. in which God challengeth the iudgement to him selfe sheweth plainelie that Christ hath this honour in respect
in one person both God and man be perfectlie vnited in him and therefore much more prerogatiue might be and doubtles was giuen to his humanitie as to him that was both God and man in respect of his baser nature then to anie other of his brethren beeing but meere men yet this is assuredlie to be beleeued that he which could without derogation to his Godheade communicate with the sonne of man and graunt him in consideration of his assumpted nature the rule and redemption of his people the assoyling of our sinnes and to worke all wonders in the power finger and force of the holie ghost the same God without all doubt through his sonne and our sauiour may at his pleasure without all vnseemelines or derogation to his eternall honour andso it shall be prooued that he doth giue power to the gouernours of his Church and houshodle to pardone and giue penaunce to iudge and rule the people in the right of our said Sauiour to the edefying of his bodie and making perfect of his saints FVLKE We doe Christianly confesse according to the scripture and with the Church of Christ that our sauiour Christ not onelie by power equall to his father concerning his diuine nature but also by graunt of God his father in his humane nature which is farre inferiour to his father doth remit sinnes absolutelie and of soueraigne authoritie in respect of his diuinitie as the mediatour God and man and that he did the same vpon earth also as a minister and preacher of repentance and reconciliation according to his humanitie But hereupon it followeth not by any order or necessitie of consequence that whoesoeuer denyeth meere man to haue authoritie or power to forgiue sinnes is iniurious to Christs person and the dispensation of his flesh or mysterie of his holie incarnation For although that man haue this authoritie which is God yet it followeth not that such mē as are onely men are capable of the same authoritie The diuersitie betwixt the state of our sauiour Christ and others is so great that nothing can be communicated to others which is proper to him in respect of his diuine nature And such a thing is the absolute power to forgiue sinnes for which he hath made satisfaction to the iustice of God which whensoeuer we speake of the remission of sins may not be forgotten For the mercie of god forgiueth no sinne but that for which his iustice is thorouglie satisfied in the obedience and iustice of our Lord and redeemer Iesus Christ. Therefore as no other man hath the dispensation of his satisfaction but himselfe so no other man can giue absolute forgiuenes of sins but him-selfe But as all his ministers haue power to pronounce forgiuenes of sins to the penitent which is noe more but to expresse his will and pleasure concerning the remission of sinnes and in what sort and condition he bestoweth the same so haue they power to teteine sinnes not of them whome he will pardon but of such as doe not repent and therefore by his worde are denied of forgiuenes so that man in this case followeth the iudgement and authoritie of God not God the iudgement and authoritie of man For if a trew priest elder or minister of the gospell lawfullie authorized would forgiue the sins of an hypocrite that faigneth repentance they are not forgiuen before God and if man would reteine the sinnes of a true penitent yet are they forgiuen before God For to man is giuen no absolute power to forgiue sins any more then there is giuen to man an vndouted iudgement to discerne betweene hypocrites and true faithfull persons But where you saie that God could without derogation to his godheade communicat with the sonne of man and graunt him in consideration of his assumpted nature the rule redemption of his people the gouernment of our soules the assoyling of our sinnes c. I must know how farre you extend your consideration For if you meane therebie that God in respect of or according to this assumpted humane nature did communicate to our sauiout Christ none other but such power as he might without derogation to his deitie haue communicated vnto Moses Samuel or any other which was a meere mortall man for the redemption of our soules and forgiuenes of our sins I doe vtterlie abhorre your Nestorian and worsse then Nestorian blasphemie but if you meane that such pow er as might without the derogation of his godhead be communicated to the sonne of man is by him deliuered to the ministers of his Church which execute the office of shepheardes and teachers in his place I doe gladlie confesse that without all vnseemelinesse and derogation to his eternal honour the ministers of the Church haue power by his graunt to reteine and forgiue sinnes that is to declare the iudgement of God in forgiuing or reteining of sinnes according to such conditions as he hath expressed in his holie worde which iudgement according to those conditions is so ratifyed by God him-selfe that it is as certaine as if it were pronounced and vttered by his owne voice out of heauen But where you speake of pardoning and geuing of penance I must once againe distinguish of your meaning For if you meane by your Popish terme of penance repentance so that you saie man hath power to giue repentance which is a conuersion of the heart vnto God and a chaunge of the minde from sinne to obedience of God I spit at your blaspemous saying For it is proper onelie to God to giue repentance to Israell and to all true Israelites of the gentiles his elected children as the holie ghost teacheth Acts. 5. and 11. in which places your pupills the Rhemists durst not for gal of conscience and shame of the world translate the latine worde paenitentia as they doe commonly els where except it be taken in the euil part penance but repentance Yet if by the word penance you meane a time or exercise of trial of true repentance which the aunciēt writers do sometimes metonimically cal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and paenitentia which was graunted by the elders of the Church to such as had greeuouslie fallen that they might haue some experience of their true conuersion before they were admitted into the communion of the faithful I may yeald to your terme And further I will not denie but that God hath geuen power vnto the gouernours of his Church and household to pardon such penance thatis to remit vpon due and good consideration some part or the wholl of that time and exercise which to such penitents by them is enioyned but that any mortall creature hath power to pardon penance in such sorte that the partie which is to receiue the pardon neede not to be penitent for his sinnes I stand still to the flat deniall Neither must we here make any great account of such as shal obiect to the priests of gods Church as the Scribes did vnto Christ him-selfe when they saw him
of Christ and his spouse the Church which you saie in no sauce we can abide as though wheresoeuer any mysterie is confessed to be there muste needes follow a Sacrament of the new testament ALLEN These fellowes therefore that dare be so bolde to disturbe all the orders and sacramentes of Gods Church and to mainteine their phantasies dare brust the sacred bandes of expresse scriptures in such pointes as doe directlie touch the wholl policie of our Christian common wealth and ordered waics of our saluation euen in those which Christ moste carefullie left to be practized for the vse of his louing slocke by the warrant of wordes moste plaine what shall we saie to such bold and impudent faces that thus dare doe and yet which I more mernaile at in this their vncurtesie and most vnhonest dealing will not sticke to crie and call vpon Gods worde as though they did that by scripture the contrarie whereof they expresslie finde in scripture And truelie where they be not holpen by the verte wordes vaine it shall be for them to stand with vs and with all our Fathers and with the practize of all nations and with the very expresse iudgement of the Church of God it shal not boote them I saie in their darke ignorance infinite pride to stand with vs hauing so many helpes for the true meaning and the expresse text of the worde for our selues and side FVLKE He must needes haue an impudent face and a wicked conscience that so shamefullie slaundereth vs to bereake the sacred bandes of the expresse scriptures wherunto we seeme to attribute al credit as though we denie any one word of expresse scripture do not affirme whatsoeuer the scripture doth affirme in expresse words or denie whatsoeuer the holy scripture in expresse words doth deny according to such sense and meaning as the scripture must haue as it is agreable to it selfe in all places The expresse wordes of scripture touching the Lords supper are these that it is the body blood of Christ we confesse and beleeue as much The expresse wordes of scripture concerning the Apostles authoritie in pardoning or reteining sinnes are as they haue beene often alledged we beleeue they and their successours of whome there is no expresse word haue power to remit or reteine sins The expresse words of scripture concerning the Lords supper are also The rocke was Christ we beleeue that the rocke was Christ. The cup is the new testament we beleeue that the cup is the new testament Also by expresse words to the Apostles there is graunted power to binde and to loose We confesse and beleeue that they haue power to binde and to loose And yet I trust we may be bolde to saie without breaking the sacred bondes of expresse scriptures The rocke was not Christ in nature of his humanitie and diuinitie but a sacrament of Christ. The cup is not the new couenant it selfe but that which is in the cup is an holie signe or seale thereof The Apostles had no power giuen them to binde men with chaines or coardes nor to loose the chaines coards of them that be bound by other but a spirituall authoritie to binde and loose spirituallie In like manner we doe not breake the sacred bandes of expresse scripture when we affirme that the Sacramentall bread and wine are not by transsbustantiation turned into the naturall bodie and bloode of Christ or the bodie and blood of Christ in the sacrament are not corporallie receiued but spirituallie For the contrarie of these we finde not expresselie in the scripture So when we saie the Apostles had not power to remit sinnes properlie which is peculiar onelie to God but to aslure men in Christes name whose embassadours they were of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by Christ we breake no bandes of expresse scriptures For we confesle the wordes according to their true meaning agreeable with other places of scripture that teach it to be peculiar to God to remit sinnes properlie An embassadour is said to make peace or warre when he declareth according to his commission his Princes determination of peace or warre The Kinges Liuetenant hauing such commission offereth or graun teth pardon to rebells or other offenders where he doth onelie declare the kinges pleasure in pardoning or releasing their offences As for the Popish bragge of all our fathers with the practize of all nations and the verie expresse iudgement of the Church of God to be for your assertion how vaine it is will easilie appeare when you come to cite fathers shew forth the practize of all nations declare the iudgement of Gods Church and when the contradictorie shall be manifestlie prooued and brough forth against you ALLEN Sometimes where it may appeare that the wordes and outwarde face of scripture serue not our assertions so plainlie as the holie traditions of Christes Church doe there they call vpon vs with infinite clamours to abide the iudgement of the word which they would be thought to esteeme aboue all mans meaning But whether would they now runne thinke you where all our sacraments stand vpon euident words more then words vpon the verie expresse notorious action of Christ him selfe al instituted sincerelie to be practized of the Church after his de parture hence all commended in knowne termes of greatest moste efficacie that could be not by way of preaching in which he vsed sometimes figures not at such time as he vsed other then common knowne speach but after his resurrection when he now vttered no more parables as he did before that such as faw should not see and such as were of vnderstanding might not vnderstand but did open vnto his dearest their senses that they might vnderstand scriptures and more carefullie expressed his meaning for the instruction of his holie Disciples to the better bearing of that charge which he meant to leaue them in after his departure whither will these men I saie where they see all thinges so enuironed with trueth whither will they flie The scriptures be plainlie ours the Doctors they dare not claime reason is against them there is then no waie to beare it out but with boldnes and exercised audacitie Yet here we wil assay by the notorious euidence of this one cause that we now haue in hand to breake their stonie heartes to the obedience of Christs Church word for whose faith if they haue seene great light force of argument allready shal yet see much more I trust they wil not stil with stand the knowen truth FVLKE We will runne no further for the vnderstanding of Christes wordes concerning the institution and practize of his holie sacramentes although we haue the consent of the moste auncient and approoued doctors of the primitiue Church as witnesses of the same That the sacraments are commended in knowne terms of greatest and most efficacie that could be we cofesse but therof it followeth not that they were not in some part commended by figuratiue speeches
that purpose And therefore hauing the grace of God and remission of sinnes ioyned vnto it by Christes promise it must needes be a sacrament as baptisme is which all the fathers doe insinuate when they make penance to be one prescribed ordinance of Christ to forgiue sinnes no lesse then Baptisme is Neither was it the preaching of the Gospell nor the inward sorowfullnes or repentance of former sinnes that Nouatus did condemne but it was the sacrament of penance and act of absolution by the Priestes ministerie which he so much abhorred and meant wickedlie to remooue For which cause as he was iustlie condemned of heresie by the Roman Nicen Councelles so were you Master Protestants both then in them and since in your Masters Wiclife Luther Caluine and the like accused by Gods Church and Councels FVLKE We will neuer graunt that baptisme or anie sacrament doth remit sinnes properlie but God by sacraments ministered by man doth assure vs that he doth remit our sins vnproperly we may say the sacraments and the ministers of them doe remit sinnes because the one is the mouth of god to declare his sentence of forgiuenes of our sins the other are the seals of god to confirme our faith in his promises of remission of sins To holde that the children of Christian Parentss in whome is no contempt or neglect of baptisme cannot be saued and receiued into heauen without it is to abridge the power of God as though he could not giue saluation without sacraments neither hath he declared anie necessitie of his will to the contrarie For the text of Iohn 3. Except a man be borne againe of water and of the spirit pertaineth not to the externall sacrament of baptisme more then the like saying of our sauiour Christ Iohn 6. Except you eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke hu blood you haue no life in you pertaineth to the sacrament of the Lordes supper That Originall sinne remaineth in the baptized though it be not imputed to the elect both the scripture and our owne experience teacheth Saint Paull did see another lawe in his members withstanding the lawe of his minde and bringing him captiue vnder the law of sinne which is in his members The Doctrine of onelie faith iustifyng and of imputed iustice although they be the Doctrine of the holie Ghost your blasphemous spirit calleth pelting paradoxes as your slaunderous malice not onelie imagineth but stoutlie affirmeth that we haue a secret Doctrine of Epicurisme which we teach secretly to certaine strangers at home c. Whereof let God who knoweth all secretes be iudge and reuenger Your argument of remission of sinnes in baptisme confirmed by testimonie of Saint Ambrose we graunt that it is no dishonour to God that man should remit sinnes by that power which god hath graunted him But whereas in his wordes you would haue the good reader to marke that poenitentia doth not signifie repentance but your popish sacrament of penance I will desire the good reader to marke the contrarie For Saint Ambrose by making obiection doth plainelie distinguish mysteriorum gratiam which is in baptisme from panitentia in which is onelie the inuocation of Gods name or the name of God aduouched for assurance of remission of sinnes which whether it be in the solemne act of reconciling those which are open penitents or in preaching and declaring remission of sinnes to al trulie repentant sinners it commeth all to one end For there is not in that repentance mysterium gratiae that is a promise adioyned to an outward sacrament which spirituallie worketh that which externallie it representeth Yet you saie there is an externall and visible action appointed by Christ 20. of Saint Iohn to reconcile sinners by the forme of absoluing which the Church vseth c. Here wanteth nothing but proofe of that you saie Here such syllogismes as you make at the end of euerie Chapter were necessarie to demonstrate this conclusion For we can see no external or visible action inthese words whose sins you retaine they are retained whose sins you remit they are remitted therefore no sacrament But all the fathers you saie doe insinuat the same when they make penance one prescribed ordinance of Christ to forgiue sinnes by no lesse then baptisme I denie this argument for euerie ordinance of Christ whereby sinnes are forgiuen is not a sacrament But it was not the preaching of the Gospell or repentance saie you that Nouatus did condemne but the sacrament of penance act of absolution by the Priestes ministerie Epiphanius and others doe writ that he denied remission of sins to thé that had fallen into idolatrie after baptisme although they were repentant Other more fauourablie write of him that he denied onely the outward reconciling vnto the Church or act of absolution by the priests ministerie for them that had so fallen But of the sacrament of penance there is no mention in any auncient writer of those or much later times Therefore Wiclif Luther Caluin and we all doe subscribe to the auncient Churches condemnation of Nouatus for an heretike and his opinion for heresie ALLEN The doctours therefore as I haue said ioyne lightlie in talking of remission of sinnes Baptisme and penance and some time extreame vnction also that you neede not doubt but they tooke them all three for sacraments workeing remission of sinnes For they doe not talke of inwarde repentance but of an action solemlie exercised in Gods Church whereof the priest as you heare by Saint Ambrose and Saint Chysostome is the minister And therefore Epiphanius saieth that the Church hath two penances one for an other insinuating thereby the double act of the Church and sacrament whereby sinnes be remitted As Saint Augustine also saieth by the Nouatians quòd poenitentiam denegant that they denie penance By which penance Lactantius teacheth vs also a way to discerne the true Church from the false as in which there is both confession and penance for the healing of mans frailtie Whereby it is euident that this penance which they speake of was an vsuall ceremonie and holy sacrament of the Church whereby sinnes were remitted FVLKE Such a sacrament such arguments the Doctorsioyne lightlie in talking of remission of sinnes baptisme and penance and sometime extreame vnction Therefore you neede not doubt that they toke them all three for sacraments And yet you haue not brought one Doctor that speaketh of extreame vnction For Chrysostome speaketh of the effect of praier made by the priest to obtaine remission of sinnes although the gift of healing be ceased in the Church And it is manifest that Saint Iames speaketh not of extreame vnction which you minister to none but such as are ready to die when he promiseth restitution of health to the diseased that were anointed in those daies Againe his vnction was onelie with oyle yours is with I cannot tell what slibbersauce cōsecrated by the Bishop That anointing was not extreame when it might be repeated
man that by nature is a like sinner and by vse of hearing manie faultes can not much maruell at oures and by office there is moste secret and carefull ouer vs what should we talke of other impediments where this comfortable motion is so great What comforte can be more then to haue such a friende who for that I ioyne with him yea euen mine owne soule to his after the dearest manner and moste secret sorte must needes be to me a full staie of conscience a witnesse of my sorowfull heart an intercessour for my sinnes a suretie before God for my amending a minister in my reconciliation and one that vnder Christ as Saint Clement also saith shall both beare my sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of me to saluation in which case me thinke surelie man is after a sorte set in maruelous quietnes and almost discharged euen of himselfe and his owne custodie whiles he giueth ouer his owne aduise and iudgement and whollie hangeth in earth vpon him whome God hath appointed to be his pastour and gouernour of his soule Therefore good reader call vpon Christ for encrease of faith and beleeue onelie this ordinance of God was of infinite wisedome and high prouidence prouided for thy sake and it can not be burdenous vnto thee Christ shal giue thee courage and heart to withstand the contrary temptations and to serue him though thou forsake thy selfe To vs therefore confusion of face for our sinnefull life and to him honour and glorie euerlasting Amen FVLKE You doe well to confesse that shame is but small ales where a man is brought into a fooles paradise of so easie remission of his sinnes for so light a confession before one man as sinfull and perhaps more sinfull then he and bounde as you saie by office to secrecie But the comforte you speake of is vaine and miserable though all confessors were learned and able to giue good counsel as not one among an hundereth of your hedge Priests fryers are For how can he be a suretie before God for an other mans amending when he cannot be surety for his owne reformation He may well beare other mens sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of other mens saluation to his owne damnation when he preacheth not Christ the onely propitiation for our sinnes but will so be a minister of reconciliation that he will robbe Christ of his glorie and the people of their saluation In which case in deede you set men in a maruelous and mischeuous securitie and almoste discharge them euen of themselues as youre owne wordes are and of their owne custodie while you make them giue ouer their owne aduise and iudgement and wholly to hang in earth vpon you not vpon Christ whome God hath appointed to be the Pastour and gouernour of their soules euen ypon earth though he be in heauen and they vpon the earth Therefore good reader marke how blaspemoussie these Popish dogges would haue thee to hang thy selfe whollie vpon them in earth as the onelie Pastours and gouernours of their soules by which they exclude Christ altogether from any feeding or gouerning of our soules vpon earth and debar all Christians not onelie from depending whollie vpon Christ as they might and doe but from hanging any thing at all vpon him in earth seeing they will haue men to hang wholly vpon their cōfessor on earth as though god had made any such pastors gouernours of mens soules as should put Christ out of office challenge the whole trust of mens saluation vnto themselues These be the right lims of Antichrist that chalenge the chiefe honour of God vnto themselues which is faith and hope of saluation to be reposed on them for what other thing is it that a man should quiet him selfe by be discharged of himselfe his owne custodie and wholy hang vpon his gostlie Father but to beleeue in him to put his whole faith hope confidence of saluation onelie vpon him while he is vpon earth And for this matter he is content to accept onelie faith because he hath no other argument to perswade thee but remember that faith commeth by hearing of the worde of God which abhorreth and accurseth al confidence reposed in man And therfore confusion of face be to al blasphemous papists not onelie for their sinnefull life but also for their abhominable heresies and to god be al glorie honour and dominion in Christ Iesus our Lord for euer euer Amen THE SECOND PARTE OF THE TREATISE CONCERning the Popes pardons The author by iust causes was mooued to beleeue the trueth of this doctrine of Pardons before he knew the meaning of them and afterward found them of greater importance then he toke them before to be THE FIRST CHAP. ALLEN OF the high power of remission and pardoning of sinnes giuen by Christ to his onelie spouse the Church in the Church in the persons of her holy Bishops and priests as a thing annexed to the wholl order and to be exercised in the sacrament of penance vpon all men that be of their seuerall iurisdictions and humblie shall submit themselues by confession of their faultes to their iudgements I haue alreadie spoken so much as may suffice for the satisfying of the sober and iust reproofe of the contentious And now because as well the course of my former matter as the speciall neede of these daies driueth me thereunto I will make further search and triall of the right of that challenge which as well the high priest as other principall Pastours and Bishops make by the force of their Prelacie and keye of iurisdiction ouer and aboue the power of orders touching Pardons and Indulgences Whereof whiles I doe intreate the more attention and heede I require of thee gentle reader because here all the lamentable tragedie and toile of this time first did begin and here haue al those that perished in the late contradiction of Core principallie fallen And in no article of Christian faith euer more offence hath bin receiued of all sortes almoste euen of the wise then in this one of the Popes pardons FVLKE WHen you haue heard what were these iust causes which he pretendeth you shall plainlie see that the authors faith was not grounded vpon Gods word but vpon humane presumption and therefore deserueth to be called rather a fansie then a faith Likewise when you shall haue read ouer the whol treatise to the ende you shall perceiue though you read no confutation that he hath not any warrant either out of the holie scriptures or out of the auncient fathers for any Popes pardons such as he should take vpon him to defende For that the Church of God and pastours therof haue power to release them that are bounde and vpon perswasion of their repentance to remit or pardon some part of the triall appointed for them it is no question betweene vs but of the popes pardons graunted vnder his Leaden Bulls for remission of sinnes but a poena culpa
but the promise of truth which indeed if it be shewed so manifest that it cannot come in doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which I am holden in the Catholike Church But if it be onelie promised and not exhibited no man shall mooue me from that faith which bindeth my minde with so manie and great knottes vnto Christian religion Let vs see therfore what Maniche doth teach me c. These wordes declare that setting aside the wisdom of the Church grounded vpō the scriptures which the heretikes would not acknowledge there were manie other things that might iustlie holde him in the Catholike Church among which the name of Catholikes was but one and serued onelie at that time when the Catholike religion was moste commonlie imbraced therefore he denied not that the name of Catholike onelie was sufficient to teach a man to knowe the Church and the trueth by it but acknowledgeth that all these motiues of vniuersalitie consent miracles succession name of Catholike must giue place to the trueth when it is plainlie shewed out of the canonicall scriptures as in the chapter following he vrgeth them to shew out of the gospells of Christ wher it is writen that Manicheus was an Apostle of Christ as his sect affirmed and his epistle pretended As for the reason you alledge that vnlearned men are not able to stand with heretikes in disputation which wil challenge the Church to themselues is of no force for the vnlearned man ought to know the Church by the true notes thereof conteined in the scriptures which is sufficient for to satisfie his conscience although he can not cunninglie auoide all the Sophisticall arguments that the aduersarie bringeth whereas theonelie name of Catholikes can breede no true faith or quietnes of minde which is not obteined by the peoples iudgement but by authoritie of the worde of God And seing the people are commonlie deceiued in many matters of difficultie and moste of all in misnaming of things what assurance shall the vnlearned haue that they be not deceiued in this so weightie a matter and wherein their speach may so easilie be abused But howsoeuer it was the common calling of the people brought you to know Catholikes Catholikes to know the Church and the creede taught you to beleeue the Church rules in Popes pardons then in other articles Thus is your faith builded altogether vpon humane presumptions the ladder whereof is this you beleeue Popes pardons because the Church of Rome alloweth them you beleeue the Church of Rome because it is the Catholike Church you beleeue that it is the Catholike Church because the people commonlie call it so But of Christian faith Saint Paull describeth another ladder faith commeth by hearing hearing by the worde of God preached by ministers sent of God so that against the authoritie of god who giueth both his worde and preachers and by them true faith you haue the generall and common calling of men which giue authority to that companie to be the Church which is surnamed Catholike which company so called may cause you to beleeue what they list and this indeed is the ground of al your heresies if you had gone one step lower that the Deuill inspireth ignorant and wicked men to call his fowle blouse the Romish synagogue by the name of the beautifull spouse of Christ his Catholike Church ALLEN The second cause that mooued me to reuerence the power of pardoning in the high Bishup and to like his Indulgences was the verie persons of them which first reprooued the same In whome because I saw the worlde to note and wonder at other manie moste blasphemous and inexcusable heresies I verilie deemed though I was then for my age almoste ignorant of all thinges that this opinion and impugnation of Pardons could neither be of God nor of good motion that first began in them begate such a number of most wicked cōtentio is opinions as streight vpon the controlling of the Churches power herein did ensue not onelie against Christs officers in earth but against his Saints in heauen against himselfe in the blessed Sacrament This extreame intollerable issue mee thought verilie could haue no holie entraunce and therfore with the other named cause stayed me in the Churches faith euen then when I had no feeling nor sense in the meaning of these matters FVLKE You were a wise young man in those daies when being almost ignorant of all things as you confesse you would follow the iudgement of the worlde in condemning the persons of them that reprooued pardons and were not able to iudge whether they were iustlie condemned of other blasphemous inexcusable heresies Nay at this presēt time as great a cleark as you are taken to be among your friends you are not able to conuince thē of such blasphemous inexcusable heresies as you prate of And yet if you had bin thō as able iustly to haue reproued thē by the scriptures of such monsters as the world did wonder at in them yet you staied vpō a weake staffe except this be a good atgumēt with you heretiks hold manifest false opinions therefore they holde no true opinions Much more wiselie and soundlie you should haue sought the true Church as Saint Augustine teacheth out of the scriptures and thereby iudged of the worldes noting and wondring which because it consisteth moste of wicked men doth commonlie condemne Christ and his Gospell Out of the same scripture you should haue learned who were Christes officers and whoe the limmes of Antichrist what honour is due vnto the saints in heauen and what manner presense there is of Christ vpon earth But as your faith was thē grounded vpō simple sophistrie in supposing that which no wise man will graunt so is it not now much differing from the same although you haue learned with more craft to peruert a few scriptures and to wrest the sayinges of some dctors for a florish hauing no more substance of true faith which is builded vpon the word of God then you had before For if your shameles principle be denyed that you are the Church of Christ then you come back to these beggerlie motyues as in your articles and Bristowes motyues is manifest being not able either to finde the notes of the true Church in the synagogue of Rome nor to iustify the doctrine of the Church of Rome to be builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles when triall is to be made by their writings ALLEN But afterwad reading the historie of the pitifull fal of our time and there considering the sinister intent and occasion of the first improofe of Pardons and all the strange endeuours of Luther whose name is cursed to all good men who first in all mans memorie sauing one Wicleffe who was condemned in Constance Councell for the same was so bolde onelie vpon contention and couetousnes to condemne that which himselfe in Conscience knew to be true and lawfull I could not
from part of his sinne and bound in the other part but he that forgiueth the guilt and faulte of sinne which the Prophet calleth iniquitatem peccati he releaseth no daies or yeares but he forgiueth the verie fault it selfe Neither is there any eternall punishment which can be eased by any number of daies were they neuer so many Take you from an infinite and endlesse thing how much you list and it shal be eternall still Then it is onelie temporal punishment which before God and the world is limited by certaine proportion of the wickednes committed and of that satisfaction which gods iustice requireth at the partie penitent which can be released by daies or yeares in part or in whol And therefore the Popes or Bishops Pardons onelie forgiue temporall punishment enioyned or at the left due for answere of Gods righteousnes to be enioyned Wherein also the Magistrates of the Church haue such care and consideration that they remit not so much as any one daie of enioyned penance or deserued punishment but by recompence of the lacke of mans satisfying with some portion of Christes abundant desertes applied by the vse of their keies to the reliefe of such as doe lacke and for their zeale and deuotion are not worthie to receiue benefit by the singular treasure of the common wealth to helpe them in their priuate neede But for this matter looke for more toward the end of the booke FVLKE This first reason is verie feeble some pardons haue this clause de poenitentys iniunctis of penance inioyned therfore in al other pardons in which is expresse mention not onelie of penance inioyned but also of pardoning of sins either al or some part of them the temporall punishment onely is meant to be pardoned The second reason is as good Sinne is vndiuisible and so is the punishment for sinne and eternall therefore it is onelie temporall punishment which is released by daies and yeares But what saie you then to moste full pardons of all sinne and all punishments where there is no limitation of daies nor yeares what saie you to the release of the third part or the seuenth part of all sinnes beside many thousand yeares of punishment remitted as I haue shewed before in the Pardons of Alexander the fourth confirmed by Pope Leo the tenth within these eightie yeares The third argument is that the magistrates of the Church remit not so much as one daie of punishment due to Gods iustice for sinne but by recompensing the want of mans satisfaction with some portion of Christs abundant desertes applied by the vse of the keies c. But what intollerable blasphemie is this to applie the merites of Christ but onelie in defaulte of mans satisfaction whose bloode is the onelie purgation of our sinnes whose righteousnes is the wholl propitiation for our iniquities whose redemption by his death purchased is eternall for all them that are sanctified Againe what an horrible blasphemie is it to make a marchandise of the merites of Christ our sauiour as the Pope doth in the saile of his pardons And finallie what scripture giueth anie dispensation of Christes merites vnto anie mortall man and lest of all to the Pope the man of sin if it be lawful thus to imagine implie applie forge and faine without al ground of the holie scriptures religion shal be nothing but as it pleaseth men to make it as it is plaine in the Popish synagogue ALLEN And now vpon the fore said declaration let this be as it were agreed vpon and let the aduersaries well vnderstand this to be the meaning of the Catholike Church that an Indulgence or pardon is nothing els but a remission in parte or in whole of the bond of that punishment which is enioyned or deserued after the mortall sinnes be remitted Gods iustice being otherwise for the said sinnes recompensed by the common treasure of Christ and his Saints satisfaction which is applied vnto the parties vse by the keis of iurisdiction graunted to such as Christ made the Stewards of his household the disposers of his mysteries For the Church of God and her Pastours though they be mercifull inclining to remission rather then rigour yet they take not vpon them neither in the sacrament of penance to remit sinne and damnation neither out of the sacrament to release anie paine or parte of punishment enioyned without recompence thereof by Christes copious redemption and the communion of holie workes that is betwixt the head and members of this mysticali bodie of Christ. FVLKE So often as you repeat this vntrueth so often it must be tolde you that it is false that the popes pardon by the meaning of the giuer and receiuers is nothing els but a remission of punishment enioyned or deserued after mortall sinnes be remitted when it is expressed in the same that it is either for all sinnes at well as paines or els for some parte of the sinnes as well as some part of the vaines except you will accuse the Pope of manifest falsehoode and cosonage to promise that which he meaneth not to giue and wotteth well is not in his power to giue Againe where you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise recompensed we know his iustice is throughlie satisfied by the obedience and suffering of Christ as wel for al our sinnes as for the punishment due for the same therefore your Popes pardons are needles where God forgiueth our sinnes iustifieth vs freely for Christes sake But where you ioyne the satisfaction of saints vnto the common treasure of Christ it is exceeding blasphemous against the sufficiency of his satisfaction and the grace of Gods free iustification For all haue sinned and are destitute of the glorie of God beeing freelie iustisied by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Iesus whome God hath set forth to be a propitiation by saith in his blood But admit all these lies and blasphemies hetherto aduouched were graunted who gaue the Pope authoritie to applie the same by the key of iurisdiction How prooue you the key of iurisdiction to extend so farre For the keies of the kingdome of heauen whatsoeuer they are be committed to the wholl Church and not to one person onelie as Cyprian Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and all the auncient Doctors agreablie to the scriptures do confesse And God hath made all the Pastors of the Church stewardes of his household and dispensers of his mysteries And if euerie Pastour ouer his charge be a steward and dispenser of Gods mysteries as you seem to graunt why hath he not authoritie to release the penance by him-selfe inioyned or the punishment due for sinne remitted as well as the Bishop or the Pope Why hath he not the key of iurisdiction ouer his parish in as large and ample manner as the Bishop hath ouer his dioces or the Pope ouer all men seeing the keies are not giuen to one but to the vnitie as the auncient fathers teach Whie should the Bishop
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
required for answere And therefore when they gaue a Pardon of the enioyned penance there could be no great doubt but the penitent beeing in zeale and deuotion qualified thereunto was therwith fullie pardoned of Purgatorie and the bonde of all paines to come in the next life But now of daies when penance and large satisfaction our nature declining euer to the worsse and deuotion continuallie decaying is not enioyned according to the olde Canons and but a small signe thereof remaining onelie in secret satisfction which is not of it selfe in this exceeding flow of sinne any thing agreeable to the faultes committed in this case to remit onelie the enioyned penance were not enough commonlie to preuent Purgatorie paines or to discharge the penitent of all satisfactory correction to come Whereby the Church by instigation of Gods spirit dealeth so much more mercifullie now then before because the people had neuer so much neede to hang on pardon as when their sinnes be greatest and their recompense lest Neuerthelesse such is the frowardnes of our time that they had rather take away penance contemptuouslie then haue it released by the power of god lawfullie For the great infirmitie of this world was the manifolde 〈◊〉 vsed and yet the meekenes of the Church which by the motion of God shee applieth her selfe vnto for the distresse of these daies and for the sinners sake is yet moste of sinners now commonlie contemned and of verie many that haue full great neede thereof as meere follie laughed at Yet the Church for her childrens reliefe bestoweth mercie still and a great deale lesse it is offended on that side then the other as no doubt the holie ghost guiding her affaires she standeth vpright on both sides FVIKE You doe not amisse to note a diuersitie betweene the practize of the auncient primitiue Church from the late Popish Church touching the Popes pardons and purgatorie for the moste auncient primitiue Church knew neither the one nor the other But you will haue the difference to arise moste iustlie vpon the alteration of mens manners and state of thing 's Touching the state of things it is so large a tearme that I know not what you meane thereby And I maruell what state of things that should be that should bring in a new religiō into the church of Christ as this of Popes pardons purgatorie is But the alteration of mens manners if it require another forme of discipline the change of manners from better to worsse requireth a discipline to be changed from milder to sharper and not as your Popish Church pretendeth to haue done from sharper to mil der and from milder to none at all For Canonicall penance satisfaction you haue changed to arbitrary penance satisfaction which you confes to be but a signe of the Canonicall nothing agreeable to the faultes committed And of the same arbitrarie satisfaction with all the desertes thereof you haue set the release to sale in your popes Pardons which in effect is nothing else but to sel a lisentiousnes of sinne when you haue taken awaie all feare of punishment therefroe eternall by shrift and temporall by pardons and pelting commutations without exacting true repentance and the true fruites thereof which appeere in amendment of life But to follow your vaine you say the penance enioyned in the primitiue Church was so large that it might seeme very answerable to the nature of the fault It is true that as the faultes were greater so the discipline was harder for satisfying of the Churches iudgement in accepting the offenders repentance and reconciliation to the Church But there was no meaning to satisfie the iustice of god vnsatisfied in the sacrifice of Christes death howsoeuer you make it a doubtles case as also you vse to doe euerie thing by bolde and stout asseueration which you are not able to prooue by anie sound or probable argument Well if it were as you saie there was no vse of pardons in the primitiue Church nor feare of purgatory paines which is a true conclusion although it be brought in vpon false principles But now you saie the Church by instigation of Gods spirit graunteth manie great Pardons because the people in respect of their great sinnes and small or no penance and satisfaction for them had neuer so much need to hang on pardon In deed the greater mens sinnes be the more need they haue that grace and mercie should abound for the release of them but then they must haue recourse to the fountaine of mercie and onelie ground where grace groweth euen the God of all consolation reconciled in Iesus Christ vnto all them that trulie repent of their sins purpose vnfeinedlie to lead a new life agreeable to his lawes and commandements But whereas the popish Church taking awaie in a manner all sorrow for sione and feare of punishment by offering satisfaction of pardons openeth a wide field vnto all wickednes and beside teacheth men to depend vpon the pardon of a man who commonlie selleth the same for aduauntage and disposeth it at his pleasure it is out of doubt she doth this by the instigation of the Deuill and not by the spirit of God For the spirit of God is the spirit of trueth of purenes of holines giuing no licence encouragement or consent to continue in sin as the doctrine of pardōs doth most manifestly the blasphemie of which is more to be detested then the follie to be laughed at of al them that be zelous of Christes glorie saluation of his people ALLEN She seeing therefore that remission of the enioyned penance could not discharge vs of the bond of the transitory paine to come being sure that it is no les lawfull to remit the paines due by the canons is enioyned effectually by the canons she giueth now 〈◊〉 not onely de 〈◊〉 penitentus but also de iniun 〈◊〉 of such penance as by the nature of the fault before god or the decrees of Councells should or had wont to be enioyned For there is no man that hath in penance prescribed either of fasting or praying or such like a 1000. or moe years and yet it is knowen that many such pardons are and haue been giuen long Neither could the 〈◊〉 of Purgatory wholy be discharged now as it was of old by the pardons of the primitiue Church in which onelie there was remission of the penance appointed because al penance thought reedful was then appointed except there were releasing also sometimes of al the penance or a great peece of the penance that shouldby law and reason haue beene inioyned FVLKE The man of sinne supreame head of the synagogue of Sathan vpon earth seeing that his glorie power and profit ariseth principally by the increase of the peoples sins hath first taken away al bridles of canonical repentance auncient discipline secondly giuen pardon not onelie of penance inioyned which is nothing in effect as you confes but also of penance to be inioyned
the beginning of this Chapter that the satisfaction limited by the Canons was agreeable in all points to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God required for answer of his iustice Further you must remember that the Canons did limit times of penance not onelie for an act of sinne but also for customable continuance in such sinnes as you may see in the decrees of Iuo quoted by you before and in the Ancyran Councell Now if you will faine a man to be such a monster as that he haue committed all these sinnes for which the Canons doe limit times and haue continued in them also accustomablie yet by those Canons he could not deserue so many thousand yeares of penance as the Pope graunteth of pardon Nay if you make your Audit of the times limited sor all offences adding all the daies yeares and Lents prescribed in the Canons together you shall not finde the sūme of one thousand yeares of penance due to be inioyned if a man had commited al those sinnes Whereof it followeth that so many 1000 yeares as haue bin ordinarily graunted by the Popes pardons can haue no such meaning as your dreame of Audit and account surmiseth and so it remaineth that these numbers of yeares were multiplied onelie to set a greater price of the pardons so to robbe both the purses of the people and deceiue their soules For the old Canons neuer appointed anie time of penance for anie time exceeding the time of a mans life but 7. yeares 14. yeares 24. yeares c or to the end of a mans life at the most and alwaies the partie to be receiued at his end though he had not accomplished his time perfixed It is not the time appointed by the old canons therefore that can excuse so manie thousand yeares of pardon for paine to be suffered in purgatorie seeing you acknowledge the time by them limited to be limited by the spirit of god as agreeable in all points to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God requirerth for answer of his iustice But blessed be god who hath taken sufficient satisfaction to answer his iustice in the obedience suffering of Iesus Christ which is our iustice in whome seeing we are made the iustiee of God we neither feare Allens Audit for purgatorie nor desire the Popes mercie for pardon ALLEN Neither is it necessarie for the due paiment of that great debt of so manie yeares that the paine of purgatorie should endure so long or so manie yeares as had bene necessarie for the accomplishing of his penance in this life For the might the force the hougenes the excesse and the nature of the paine in the next world is so fearefull and so great as Saint Augustine often noteth that a great deale lesse time sufferance of the same is answerable to much more in the world and this present life For what comparation is there berwixt a daies fasting here a daies punishment in purgatorie better it were surely to suffer a hundred yeares such penance as the Church prescribeth in this mortall life that hath in it much worldlie ease and comfort for the release of the inioyned paine then to abide one daie or wecke in so greeuous a torment as the holie Doctours and all the Church holdeth Purgatorie to be Therfore to forgiue such a greeuous sinner in the latter end of his life receiued to mercie as we haue now spoken of a thousand or two thousand yeares of penance is as much in effect and nature of the termes as to remit and release him of so much punishment or the debt and bond of so much punishment in purgatorie as is proportionall and correspondent to so manie daies or years of penance as the penitent in this life was bound vnto by the Canons of the Church or the iust inioyning of his Ghostlie Father For the Pardons measure the matter not by the limites of Purgatorie the bonds borders or waie of limitation whereof the Church knoweth not but by the yeares and times of penance prescribed to sinners by the holie Canons vpon the bond wherof Gods iustice temporall in the next world doth as I haue prooued much depend To be short then plaine to giue a pardon of a 10001. or 2000. yeares or moe if the graunt goeth so is as much to saie as to forgiue so much punishment as might be answerable for so great penance not fullfilled in this life As if I were behinde with the Church and indebted to God hard before my death of a hundreth daies fasting in which case I cannot recompence if my Bishoppe then or the chiefe head of all the Eccle siasticall Hierachie doe forgiue me twenty of the said daies then my punishment shal be so much lesse in Purgatorie not by twenty daies I saie of Purgatorie paines but by as much as in force of satisfaction there is answerable to twentie daies fast here So that the Church measuring her mercies by the yeares of penance deserued by the law in this life or else where taketh effect not onely in this life where there cannot be so manie daies in our short time but especially in preuenting Purgatorie paines where there may well be punishment answerable in a verie short time to all the daies prescribed by the measures of the lawe and discipline of our present daies in the world FVLKE If the fire of Purgatorie be so much hotter then this elementall fire as this is hotter then a fire painted on a wall as some of your owne Poetes haue fained you maie adde this imaginarie proportion of greatnes of paine against length of time And whoe can let you to imagine what you list seeing you require to be credited vpon your bare worde without authoritie of scripture or witnes of the auncient Doctors But the holie Doctors you saie and all the Church holdeth purgatorie to be so greeuous a torment and Saint Augustine noteth it often namelie in Psal. 37. Verilie Saint Austen in that place saith that the fire by which some that builde strawe hay c. vpon the fundation Christ shal be more greeuous then anie thing that anie man can suffer in this life but else where he can say nothing of certaintie of the fire of Purgatorie whether anie such fire after this life be or no as de fide operibus c. 6. de oct dulcit qu. 1. as I haue shewed more at large in confutatiō of your booke of purgatorie You quote Origen also but I knowe not how nor what to finde by your quotation but certaine it is that Origen knew not the Popes purgatory although he allegorize of a certaine purgatory which neither the papists themselues do alow and it teacheth the heresie wherewith he is charged that the deuills and all wicked persons at length shall be saued To conclude the old canons graunting remission to euerte man that is preuented by death at his last end had no meaning of anie recompence of yeares and daies in Purgatorie as without all
content to ride on an Asse the Apostles to goe barefot in planting the Gospell But whereon 〈◊〉 the pope and how be his Cardinals feete surbaighted in going barefote to preach the Gospell Although I knowe not where he findeth in holie scripture that the Apostles went barefote in planting the Gospell Their trauell was great into all partes of the world though they had bene well shood yea booted and ridden on horsebacke But if the comparison be made between the ministers of the Gospell and Antichrist the Pope and his proud prelates whether in pacience humility and mildnes of behauiour be more like to Christ and his Apostels we doubt not our cause though the triall were before verie partiall iudges Well howsoeuer it were you should haue suffered Martyrdome rather then to haue resisted and murthered other but that you would not for you sought to liue licentiouslie and had no hope of eternall life after this Among so manie thousand as suffered martyrdome most quietlie without resistance when they were imprisoned tormented and condemned by those which had power to kil their bodies he can finde no examples of pacience and hope of eternall life except all the Protestants in the world will giue there throtes to be cut and suffer themselues to be murthered contrarie to lawe and liberties established by lawfull authoritie and that by priuat persones and bloodie Tirants as the poore Christians were by the Duke of Guyse at Vassi and so should all the rest in Fraunce haue beene if God had not stirred vp diuers Princes and noble men at the request of the Queene Mother to oppose themselues against the furious and trayterous attempts of that bloodie tyrant who abusing the minoritie of the King whome he toke captiue with his mother vsurped moste vnlawfull power against the King the Queene the estates and all the realme Frarine therefore fareth with vs as that seditious Ruffian of Rome who sued an action against his enemie whome he had wrongfullie wounded because he receiued not his weapon deepe enough to death Christ himselfe the paterne of patience saide to the seruant which moste iniuriouslie smote him when he stoode in iudgement before the high priest why smitest thou me if I haue spoken euill beare witnes of euill that is deale with me as order of iustice requireth And Saint Paule his faithfull disciple could not forbeare that painted wall Ananias who pretending to sit in iudgement according to the lawe did contrarie to the lawe commaund him to be smitten and should the Protestants in Fraunce hauing both authoritie and power to defend themselues suffer the Duke of Guyse a priuate man and a straunger with his complices to smite of all their heades as it were with one stroke and not rather to oppose themselues against his furie not onelie for defence of the gospell but also for the maintenance of the lawe and the libertie of their nation There resistance therefore was not treason rebellion crueltie as this declaimer raueth butobedience iustice and authoritie to withstand treason crueltie and rebellion Yet againe he repeateth that lack of libertie was no iust cause of these warres seing euerie where they might fill their paunches carrie a sister wife about with them toule Nuns out of cloysters filthilie abuse them still he speaketh as though none were Authors Captaines or Souldiers of these warres but such licentious ministers or as though so manie princes noble men gentlemen and valiant souldiers as serued in those warres had no other quarrell but to maintaine the gluttonie and lecherie of a fewe lewde ministers of which sort yet he is not able to name one Neuertheles he saith that moste commonlie euerie Apostate Monke had his Nun at his toile and holie Kate hir holie mate Although the worlde knoweth that this might better be verefied of Clauster all Monkes and Nunnes of limiting friers and their holie sisters But srier Luthers pleasure was if we beleeue this man that his Ladie Venus court should be franke and free if the wife saith he will not doe it let the maide supplie her place The will of God commaundeth and necessetie bindeth as well to haue carnall copulation as to eate and drinke See how malice draweth all wordes to the worste meaning Luther in his booke of Babilonicall captiuitie speaking in the person of Assuerus taking Hester his maide to wife when Vasti refused to come to him hath some such wordes as he reporteth If the wife will not let the maide come and possesse her place meaning nothing els but the diuorcing of Vasti and the marrying of Hester but nothing as the Papists cauill that a man hauing a wife maie abuse his maide The other saying of the necessitie of carnall copulation is spoken onelie of them that haue not the gift of continencie for whome marriage is the lawfull and necessarie remedie ordained by God to auoide sinne To conclude this first part he saith it was neither religion nor gospell nor Gods quarrell they meant to further but malice against the pope as Luther in an epistle ad argentin confesseth But Luther neuer confessed any such matter he might well acknowledge his iust hatred against the Pope as the enemie of Christ and so doe all true Christians And if the estates of France had raised warre for malice against the Pope they would haue sent a power into Italie to haue annoyed him or his possessions there as Charles the 5. and Philip his Catholike sonnes haue done for the loue they bare to the Pope As for the restitution of Christian faith wel neere worne out there was no neede he saieth to laboure For the Church of God the seat and piller of truth had alwaies without force battaile kept that most recurently Then it followeth the Church of Rome was not the Church of God for which Christ praied Ihon. 17. To which he promiseth the holie Ghost Ihon. 14. In which are foūd so few sparkes of true faith which mainteineth so many grosse errours eontrarie to the expresse wordes of God conteined in the holie scriptures as often and moste cleare demonstrations hath beene made To be short if the cause of these warrs taken in hand be demaunded which he calleth Tragicall and cruell doinges you shall haue a short answear saith he with Mum Budget except they will alleadge perhappes the ambition auarice boldenes wantones of certaine loose Friers as though he could be ignorant of the publike protestation of the Prince of Condy and a great part of the nobilitie of Fraunce set forth when they beganne the first warres In which they neither alledge the fond surmised causes by Frarine nor mumble them ouer in Mum Budget but plainlie declare the reasonable sufficient and necessarie causes which mooued them to that attempt The copie whereof is yet extant in storie to be seene and read Now is he come to the second part wherein he will prooue that as without iust cause so without authoritie and commission they haue made warres And
be read of euerie man amonge you with your confutations And Doctor Windham then saide that no wise state would suffer it Neuerthe lesse our state God be thanked vpon conscience of trueth on our side hath with no lesse wisedome then good successe alwaies permitted your bookes with our answers to them to be read of all men to iudge indifferentlie so they conteine nothing but question of religion and not shamefull diffamations and inuectiues against the prince and the state of gouernement which matters deserue to be answered with an axe or an halter rather then with penne and paper But to permitte your bookes vnconfuted to haue free passage althoughe they passe with an hundred times lesse daunger then ours maie doe among you as you require it were neither wisedome godlines equitie nor reason AN OVERTHROVVE OF THE ANSVVERE TO Master Charkes preface touching Discerning of Spirites M. Chark beside the matter in question c. IF this answerer beside the matter in question had not made manie vnnecessarie and vnpertinent digressions the substance of his answere might haue bene contained almoste in as fewe lines as nowe it filleth leaues The triall of the Spirites which Saint Iohn requireth that is by the kinde of doctrine in teaching Christ and not the qualitie of the teachers Master Charke desireth the aduersaries refuse allowing nothing finallie but the onelie and falselie named title of the Catholike Church of Rome for them-selues and accusations of the persons some perhapes true some vtterlie false against vs. To this practize so manie popish treatises and this especiallie in hand doe giue testimonie This is the summe of Master Charkes preface Nowe commeth our answerer and because he had manie by-quarrels to deliuer he taketh occasion to vtter them in this place though litle or nothing pertaining to the direct confutation of Master Charkes preface First he chargeth Master Charke to saie that the Papists refuse Saint Iohns triall which is false for their bookes are extant wherebie they haue called to triall all sectaries of our time among whome he nameth Munster and Stancarus against whome I neuer heard what Papists haue exercised their style especiallie Stancarus holding one principle comming verie neare to their position of Christs priesthood to be onelie according to his manhood as Stancarus taught that Christ was a mediatour onelie after his humanitie but reade their bookes who shall and he must needes confesse Master Charkes saying to bee true For first or last they draw all triall to Rome and not to examine which doctrine giueth al glorie to God by Iesus Christ our onelie Sauiour which is the scope of Saint Iohns triall But if wee had not desired triall of Spirites saith he wee would not haue laboured so much to obteine the same of our aduersaries in free printing preaching or disputation You speake of great labor which none of vs euer heard that you tooke except it were in spreading a fewe coppies of Campians seditious libell not to the end of triall of spirites for discerning of trueth but to the stirring vp of mens bodies and mindes to treason and rebellion as the like labors by the like messengers tooke effect and make manifest demonstration in Ireland But if free printing preaching and disputation be a goodway for discerning of Spirites that Christ maie be knowne from Antichrist whie doe not you Papists graunt the same in Spaine Italie and other countreis thrall to the Popes tirannie yet assaulted by the doctrine of the gospell as by the power of Christ against Antichrist if it be not a good waie as it seemeth you thinke because you take it not your selues how can you saie that you require in those places this triall of spirites No no it is an other triall of the sharpest swordes that you meane when you require such triall of Spirites You adde further of the aduenturing of your liues in comming and offering the same to vs at home with so vnequall conditions on your side as you haue done and dailie doe for the triall of trueth There is no daunger of life among vs in offering the triall of Spirites according to Saint Iohns rule but in seeking to auerte the Queenes subiects from their duetifull obedience vnto her Maiestie to make a waie for the execution of the Popes moste blasphemous and traiterous Bull and this hath procured moste iuste and necessarie execution of some fewe of you and not as you slaunder iustice that offering to trie the truth hath obtained nothing hitherto but offence accusations extreame rackings and cruell death Againe these inequall conditions these daily offers these manie petitions and supplications that you speake of whoe hath made to whome haue they bene offered when were they presented where were they seene or heard by whome were they refused except Campians ridiculous challenge be all in all with you But what will a Papist spare to affirme that he maie make falsehood haue some likly shape of truth yet being admitted that you offer trial it must be seene whoe doe offer best meanes of triall And here you will endeuour to shew that all meanes of triall which Master Charke and his fellowes will seeme to allow in worde For they offer none in deede are neither sure possible nor euident but meere shifts to auoide all triall and that your selues do offer all the best and surest waies of triall that euer weere vsedin the Church for discerning an hereticall spirit from a Catholike Your indeuour is great but your abilitie is small for you shall neuer be able to demonstrate either the one or the other howsoeuer with vaine sophistications and wrested authorities you seeke to dasell the eies of the simple Let vs heare therefore howe you beginne The onelie meanes of triall you say which Master Charke will seeme to allowe is the scripture But this is a shift common to all heretikes especiallie of our time First you slaunder Master Charke in saying that he alloweth the scripture to be the onelie meanes of triall of spirites whereof he speaketh not at all in this preface but of triall of spirites by the doctrine of Christ which is moste plainlie and certenlie set forth in the holie scriptures and therefore by the holie scriptures the doctrine maie best and moste certenlie be tried and iudged But that Master Charke by referring him selfe to the holie scriptures onelie as suffiâ—â—â—n and â—â—le to decide all controuersies of Religion doth denie or exclude all other meanes of 〈◊〉 whereby the true meaning of the scripture may be knowne it is impâ—dent he affirmed without either proofe or likelihood of truth as hereafter more plainlie will appeare Saint Augustine as though he were an enimie of conâ—â—â—â—ing heresies by the authoritie of the scriptures onelie is quoted in the margent de nupt Concup lib 2. cap. 31 whose words are these Non est miâ—â—am si Pelagiani dicta nostra in sensus 〈◊〉 volunt detoâ—quere conaâ—tur quando de scripturis sanctis non vbi obscurè
heretikes did holde it But he rather doth offer manifest wrong to Doctor Fulke whovseth not to reason so looselie But rather concludeth that praier for the dead is an error because it was first inuented and practized by an heretike For all trueth hath an higher and more auncient spring then anie heretike or heresie But for so much as he hath answered this wholl obiection sufficientlie in his confutation of Popish quarrells I will send the reader thither where he shall finde that which maie satisfie him in this matter The last kinde of triall whereof he will speake at this time is to consider the manner of olde heretikes and to compare the same with ours And here he would haue the two former conditions obserued To wit that we consider such qualities onelie as were accounted hereticall in them and to examine them truelie in our selues The maners of heretikes is no sure way of trial for heretikes come often times in sheepes clothing pretending greater holinesse in conuersation then true Catholikes do But let vs see how he will prooue vs heretikes by this kinde oftriall For example saith he Saint Augustine doth note it as an heretcall propertie in the Donatistes to hate the sea of Rome and to call it the chaire of pesttlence Doth this agree to the Protestants or to vs as also defaming of the said sea for the euill pretended life of some particular men But here he breaketh his owne conditions For Petilian did not hate the sea of Rome as the sea of Antichrist For the Donatistes had their mock-Bishop at Rome also But he railed vpon all the chaires or sees of all Catholike Bishops and on the Bishops them selues that were not of his schisme and heresie and on the Apostolike chaire of Ierusalem as wel as on that of Rome Againe the Donatistes called the chaire of Rome the chaire of pestilence when it was the chaire of a Catholike Bishop we call it the chaire of pestilence now that it is the seat of the beast and great whore of Babilon Antichrist As Esay calleth Ierusalem an harlot which yet sometime had bene a faithful citie Wherefore the example of the Donatistes maketh nothing against vs. Another hereticall tricke Augustine noteth in them to persuade the people that the visibie Church had erred oppressed the true Church banishing her from the sight of the world Doe not our aduersaries saith the answerer saie the verie same No sir we haue nothing to doe with the Donatistes whome the Papists doe resemble more then we For in the place quoted there is no talke of the visible Church as you note in your example But this is the matter The Donastites affirmed that the Church was vtterlie lost in all other partes of the worlde and remained onely in Africa and in the part of Donatus So the Papists affirme that the Church was lost in all other partes of the world and remained onelie in Europe and in the part of the pope But we holde that the Catholike Church of Christ is dispersed ouer all the wholl world where the name of Christ is called vpon as Saint Augustine in the same place sheweth out of the scripture that it must be euen among them that either know not or els acknowledge not the Bishop of Romes authoritie That he chargeth vs for condemning all the Church for the faultes of some as the Donatists did we do not But rather the answerer faulteth herein with the Donatistes who vpon shamefull slaunders inuented to deface the godlie life of Luther Caluine Beza and such like laboureth to bring the trueth of their Doctrine in discredite as the Donatistes did by charging the Bishop of Carthage and others with treason against Christ in deliuering the bookes of his Gospell to the gentiles to be burned But yet moreouer he noteth against the same heretikes saith he for hating and condemning the life of Monkes as also for drawing nunnes out of their cloistures and ioyning them-selues with the same in pretended wedlock To reprooue the life of them that were innocent was a point of hereticall malice but to hate and condemne the life of detestable hypocrites and abhominable liuers as the moste of the Popish monkes and nunnes were and are is an argument of Godlie zeale an hypocrite and an holie man an heretike a Catholike maie doe the same actions oftentimes which differ not in the kinde of action but in the end purpose cause and manner of doeing But where findeth our answerer the Donatistes noted as he saith for hating and condemning the life of Monkes drawing Nunnes out of cloistures and ioyning them with themselues in pretended wedlock His quotation sendeth vs to the second booke against the epistle of Parmenian cap. 9. and Ep. 169. ad Eusebium But in neither of both places is this noted in them for they hated not the life of Monkes and Nunnes which had such of their owne as in the former place Saint Augustines words are Annon cum mach is particulam suam ponunt qui greges ebrios sanctimonialium suarum cum gregibus ebri is circumcellionum die noctuque permixtos vagari turpiter sinunt Do they not put their parte with adulterers which suffer the dronken flockes of their owne nunnes with the dronken flockes of the circumcellions daie and night mingled together to wander about filthelie This is all that he writeth there of monkes or nunnes which whether it do more neerelie touch the life of Popish nunnes lymiting friers then the conuersation of Protestants let the indifferent reader iudge In the epistle to Eusebius he complaineth of one 〈◊〉 which sometime had beene a Subdeacon of the Church of Sanianum who when he was forbidden to haue such accesse vnto the nunnes as was against the discipline and despised orderlie and wholsome precepts he was remooued from the cleargie and being him-selfe stirred vp against the discipline of God he remoued him selfe vnto them and was rebaptized Also two nunnes with their tenants out of the ground of the Catholike Christians whether the same man remooued or whether they followed him them selues yet were they rebaptized and were with the flockes of Circumcellions among the wandring flockes of women which therefore would haue no husbands lest they should haue discipline The proud fellow boasteth him-selfe in the madde banquets of detestable drunkennesse reioycing that a moste broad license of naughtie conuersation is opened vnto him from whence in the Catholike Church he was prohibited Here is neither the hatred and condemning of Monkes liues nor drawing of nunnes out of cloistures nor ioyning them in pretended wedlock noted in the Donatists But two light nunnes by a quondam clearke either conuaied by their consent or following him out of the ground of Christian Catholikes into the sect and groundes occupied by the Donatistes c. In the same epistle also he speaketh of the daughter of a certaine tenant of the Church that was caried awaie by the Donatists against her parents
testament Sozomenus in the place by you cited after he hath commended the Philosophie or contemplatiue life of the solitarie men in those daies hath these wordes of this excellent Philosophie was the beginner as some saie Elias the Prophet and Iohn Baptist so that it is not so absolute as you sett it downe but as some saie and it is of a Philosophicall studie and life in which if comparison be made with Popish Monkes for one thing which they haue like they haue three things vnlike or contrarie to the profession and practise of those auncient Monachi which might haue some resemblance with the manner of Elias life in some thinges and were more agree able to the example of the sonnes of the Prophets which were students in diuinitie as those olde Monks of the primitiue Church readie to serue in the place of teachers whensoeuer they were called That antiquity onely should let the Prophets to be examples of monasticall life it is your owne vaine collection and as vaine is your comparison of Adam to be a paterne of marted men Abel of sheepherdes Caine of husband men c. For M. Charke asketh what you are able to bring out of the word of God why Elias should after more then two thousand yeares be brough in for a patrone of friers which for so manie yeares could neuer be espied in the Church either of the Iewes or of the Christians As for the estate of maried men sheepherds husbandmen citizens Tentdwellers musitians smithes c. is either necessarie or otherwise commendable then by the examples of those auncients of which some in respect of their antiquitie are not to be followed at all as Cain and the rest of his cursed line who yet were inuenters of profitable artes by the gift of God and not by the worthines of the persons As for the slate of the Munkes and friers such as we striue about is neither necessarie nor profitable to the Church but a great infection and poison of the same Nowe whether Iohn Baptist were a president to Monkes whome Master Chark saith to haue beene an extraordinarie and perpetuall Nazarite whose example is not now laid vpon them that teach in the Church you answere that he doth wilfullie mistake the question for that you affirme not that such extraordinarie austeritie is laid vpon anie man of necessitie but that it is lawfull and maketh no sect when it is voluntarilie taken and vsed You do wilfullie omit the pith of Master Charkes argument who is not ignorant of your pretense of voluntarie but addeth that the seuerall offices of those that teach in the Church are expressed in the word of God and therefore there can be no new order of Ministers by anie title or voluntarie assumption but it is a suspitious sect howsoeuer seuerall persons maie as they see iust cause more or lesse prescribe vnto them-selues some extraordinarie austeritie of life for their priuate exercise or chastisment That Saint Iohns austeritie was for the moste parte voluntarie and not of necessitie of the vocation of a Nazarite it is fondlie proued of you by example of the superstitious sect of the Essenes described by Plinie and Iosephus of which Plinie speaketh verie little but Iosephus at large and in some points of austeritic noteth them to exceede any thing that we read in scripture of Saint Iohn Baptist as of their continuall exercise in labour of their handes their forbearing to spitte in the assemblies of men their forbearing to ease their bodies on the sabboth daie and such like superstitious toies Now the austeritie of Saint Iohn in that he did willinglie and not by compulsion vndergo it maie be called voluntarie otherwise in that it was appointed by the wisdome of god whose spirit directed him it was necessarie and especially for the forerunner of Christ to sing the dolefull song and to call the people to repentance and therefore not without presumption drawne into example by them that are neither led with the same spirit nor called to the same office and so no example nor platforme for the superstitious order of Monkes and friars albeit they alwares kept as great austeritie in deede as they professe in wordes But it is a wonderfull argument for your Monkes that the Nazarites did make a religious vow for their dedication to God as your religious people do also vse For it were somewhat that you saie if you could bring as good warrant for the vowes of your Popish votaries to be prescribed and accepted of God as you bring for the vow of the Nazarites otherwise it maie be said vnto you by God as he speaketh by the Prophet quis requisiuit c. who required these things at your handes which if it were said of those things which in some manner and to some end were required how iustlie maie it be spoken of these that in no manner nor to anie end are by God required at your handes but that Saint Iohn was a Monk of the new Testament and a patron of monasticall life although you confesse it to be more then you were bound to prooue so manie fathers as you name do testifie with one consent And what if he were an example followed of those Monkes that liued in moste of those fathers times is he therefore a patrone to your Popish Monkes of these late daies and new orders it will be more then hard for you to prooue that Now let vs consider your authorities which you affirme to testifie that Saint Iohn was a Monk of the new testament and a patterne of monasticall life First Gregorie Nazian orat de S. Bas. 1. hath this testimonie onelie he compareth Basill with Saint Iohn Baptist as resembling him in some thinges as he doth with Peter Paul Iohn the Euangelist and Stephan except you will saie theese were all Monkes Chrisostome in deed Hom. 1. in Mark. calleth Saint Iohn prince of the Monasticall life but not a Monke of the new testament as I haue shewed before in answer to your preface Neither doth Saint Ierome epist. ad Eustoch saie that Saint Iohn was a Monke and patterne of Monasticall life but speaking of the life of an Anachoret which liued by him-selfe alone in the wildernesse he saith huius vitae auctor Paulus illustrator Antonius vt ad superior a conscendam princeps Iohannes Baptista fuit Of this life Paul was the author Anthonie the beautifier and that I maie ascend higher the Prince or cheefe was Iohn Baptist. Where is Iohn Baptist the Monke or patterne of your Papisticall monkish life when they liued not in the wildernes but in cities populous townes not in caues and tents but in gorgious palaces Although Saint Iohn be the cheife of them that liued in the wildernes the same Ierome in the life of Paule the Heremite whome before he calleth the author of the Anachorites life hath these wordes Inter multos saepe dubitatum est à quo potissimùm monachorum eremus habitari
into great contempt wheresoeuer they plant them-selues in so much that the Fryers in some places haue slirred vp sedition against them caused them to be expelled It remaineth therefore that the Iesuites are a sect or schisme euen in Popery as they are a detestable kinde of heretikes against the Catholike faith which is common to al obstinate Papists and it is true likewise which Master Charksayeth that the Pharises were a notorious sect ver did they not cut of themselues from the religiō of the Church nay they bare the greatest sway in the Church albeit some of thē held great heresies yet they professed to imbraceal the doctrine of the Church and so did the Saduces in so much that some of them climed vp euen to the high priests office yet were they a detestable sect but of a bastarde Church as the Iesuites are of the Popish Church of Rome His definition also if you did not cauill and trifle about words is true that a sect is a companie of men that differ from the rest of their religion in matter or forme of then profession Whether you deriue the Etimologie à secando of cutting or à sequendo of following although I thinke Master Charke meaneth it of cutting the absurdities you gather are wilfull cauillations For Bishopes ministers lawyers iudges c. though they differ in auctoritie apparell state and forme of life yet they differ not in forme of profession of religion from the rest of our religion They be diuerse offices and lawful callings in one profession of religion but so are not Iesuites and other orders of Monkes and Fryers for they albeit they hold one religion with the rest yet doe differ in the sorme and profession of that religion beeing no necessarie offices or callinges instituted by God but seuerall professions begonne by men whose imitation soeuer they pretend Therefore no wise man but such a quarreling Censurer woulde haue made the cases of Bishopes iudges lawyers like in this point with Dominicans Franciscans Iesuites Like wisedome and grauitie you shew in flouting of Master Charkes definition with your ridiculous comparisons where he sayeth a sect is a companie of men For when you haue sported your selfe vntil you haue wearied your selfe and your reader in the end you confesse that you are not ignorant that in common speach this word sect may improperly signifie the mē also which professe the same but not in a definition where the proper nature of each word is declared Whether it be properlie or improperlie so taken because it is a brable of wordes I will not contend but if you exclude all improper or figuratiue speaches whose sense is commonlie knowne as this of sect from definitions you will driue them into a straight roome For we may not saie Logicke is a science or arte bene disserendi which in common speach signifieth to dispute well because disserere in latine doth properlie signifie to sow or set in diuerse places and seeing the worde sect in common speach may signifie the men that professe such a seperation why may there not a definition be giuen of the terme according to that signification Now whether the Iesuites be a sect according to Master Charkes definition you will examine after you haue tolde vs that his conclusion is like that he made in the Tower against Campian which was to dispatch him at Tyburne nothing following of the premises which fond comparison I passe ouer seeing all men knowe that conclusion was not of Master Charkes making by which Campian was hanged at Tyburne and all men may see what was Master Charkes disputation in the Tower and how it was answered by Campian But to the matter in hand you aske what is in M. Charkes illation that can make the lesuites a sect if it were all graunted to be true the Iesuites receiue a peculiar vow to preach as the Apostles did euerie where of free cost First to dedicate a mans life by vow to Gods seruice you saie it is alowed in scripture Numbers 6. Ps. 131. yea that is euery mans dutie but Master Charkes illation is of a peculiar vow which by no scripture is allowed but of such things onelie as God accepteth to his seruice and are in our owne power to performe as the vow of a Nazarite the vow of sacrifices of thankesgiuing c. Other be either superstitious or vnlawfull vowes Secondlie to preach euerie where and at free cost you thinke he should be ashamed to saie that it maketh a sect seeing Christ commaunded his Apostles to preach euerie where freelie and Saint Paul glorieth that he had taught the Gospell of free cost Yes Syr this maketh a sect for them to vow to exercise the office of Apostles which are not called by Christ to be Apostles the vow is vnlawfull and the votaries are sectaries not of the Apostles but of that pseudo Apostle Laiolas that was of his own ordination Againe where you saie that the Apostles were commaunded to preach the Gospell in all places freelie it is false for that precept Mat. 10. giue freelie as you haue receiued freelie either is ment of the graces of healing or if you ioyne it with the other preceptes that follow of not possessing golde nor siluer nor monie garments c. other prouision for the iournie it is as they are particular for that viage and not generall for all time of their Apostleshippe For otherwise the Apostles should haue greeuouslie offended in not preaching in all places of free cost and Saint Paull in taking of double wages of somme Churches that in some other he might preach freelie Therefore as vpon good consideration in some place the Apostles did preach of free cost and so may men at this daie yet for any man to vow that in al places and at al times he wil preach at free cost the vow is vnlawfull because it is contrarie to the ordinance of God which hath ordained and appointed that they which preach the Gospell should liue of the Gospell 1. Cor. 9. 14. And it cannot but be to the iniurie such as will procure contempte and neglect vnto them that preach the Gospell and liue according to the ordinance of the Gospell in taking the stipende for them appointed that there should be a sect or company of men which should professe alwaies and in all places to preach of free cost You proceede and aske what then maketh them sectaries to whippe and torment them-selues if it were true seeing Saint Paull chastened his owne bodie and caried the bonds of Christ in his flesh and the scriptures talke much of mortifying our members of crucifying our flesh and the like and neuer a word of pampering the same As though there could be no chastening of the body bearing of Christs markes mortifying the members or crucifying the flesh except men whippe and torment them-selues or that whosoeuer doth not whippe him-selfe doth pamper his flesh Saint Paull did chastise his bodie with
and sword Concerning the name of Iesuites it is a friuolous quarrell of your censure seeing you confesse it to be giuen to them by common speech and think it lawfull for your selfe to vse yet you taxe Master Charke for vsing it That the Iesuites are not onelie a sect but also a blasphemous sect Master Charke prooueth because they abuse the moste blessed name of Iesus for a colour of their blasphemous practise which is to roote out the Gospell of Iesus and to bring in the heresie and superstition of poperie For this you will call him an angrie gentleman with whome euerie thing is blasphemie though it be but the wagging of a straw But heare his reason you saie They draw to them selues alone the comfortable name of Iesus which is common to all But his reason I haue sette downe before gathered truelie out of his owne wordes that he speaketh of the name of Iesus is after this sorte This also encreaseth the offence that they draw to themselues alone the moste gracious and comfortable title of our fellowshippe and vnion in Christ Iesus which is 〈◊〉 to all that do beleeue without aniè diuision or distinction You answere no Sir William you maie haue your parte if you exclude not your selfe In deede we doubt not but we shall haue our parte notwithstanding the Iesuites praesumptuous claime But yet you will iustifie their claime by an euident example as you terme it For when anie man you saie leaueth all other cares and busines to serue the Queene onelie and professeth the same by some speciall name of her Maiesties 〈◊〉 seruante doth he iniurie other subiectes hereby or doth he take from them anie interest in her Maiestie It is somewhat you saie if the man whome you speake of for examples sake haue his name lawfullie regestred in her Maiesties checker role or can shew good testimonie of her Maiesties appointing him to such speciall office as he taketh vppon him to exercise But if anie man or speciallie if anie companie of men should arrogate vnto themselues without lawfull appointment the speciall name of hir Maiesties seruantes and take vpon them to exercise such an office as her highnes hath not committed to them I suppose they deserued rather to haue their eares cut of on the pillarie then to receiue any honour that is due to the Queenes ordinarie seruantes or officers And this is an euident example of the vsur pation of the Iesuites who haue not receiued the calling of Apostles which is immediate from Iesus him-selfe and yet professe to exercise the office of Apostles in preaching the Gospell euerie where of free coste which is more then the Apostles did at all times As for Eldertons iest of raising the dead curing the lame blinde c. I maruaile you do not answer by the Iaponical miracles which are done so thick in another world in both the Indies by your Iesuites rather then in this point to make them of no greater power then anie that are called Christianes But it is an easier matter to lie of thinges farre of then to shewe a wonder in presense of them that can examine such a matter The third section entituled Of religious men and their vocation of pouertie YOu defend the title of religious claimed and giuen to Monkes and Nunnes because they were not called religious by antiquitie for that they onelie had religion in them but that they made profession of more perfect following of Christian religion then others by remooving worldlie impedimentes according to the counsell of Christ touching perfection Mai t 19. 16. Esay 56. where chastety voluntarie pouertie and abnegation of our owne will are commended and counselled to perfection and the contraries thereof in other places of scripture shewed to be great impedimentes But first you prooue not that they were so called of the first and reuerend antiquitie by anie such singular name of religions as they are called in the Popish Church Secondlie where you count abnegation of our owne will to be onelie commended and counselled to perfection you declare what a profound diuine you are when the verie text which you cite is manifest that it is necessarie for all the disciples of Christ and that in paine of damnation If anie man will follow me saith he let him denie him-selfe and take vp his crosse and follow me for he that will saue his life shall leese it c. Thirdlie I saie that the perfection of Christian Religion standeth not in virginitie for that you meane by chastetie as though the marriage bed also which is vndefiled were not to be accompted chastetie and wilfull pouertie For all men are in scripture commaunded to endeuour vnto the perfection of Christian Religion but no man is comaunded to liue vnmarried or to renounce his worldlie possessions Mat. 5. 48. 2. Cor. 7. 1. Ephe. 4. 13. Phil. 3. 12. Col. 1. 28 c. Neither is marriage or priuate possession of earthlie goods of it selfe anie impediment vnto the perfection of Christian Religion And if it were graunted that the perfection thereof did stand in such profession as you speake of yet doth it not follow that such professours should haue that praerogatiue to be called absolutelie Religious seeing they that make no such profession maie be neuerthelesse sufficientlie Religious vnto saluation neither do your examples iustifie this proud vsurped terme For the name of learned men doth truelie agree to them that are so in deed whereas to them that haue but smale learning it doth not absolutelie agree but with addition of something smallie meanely pretilie or such like For no man can saie truelie of him that knoweth onelie a litle grammer latine logick c. that he is a learned man but of euerie true Christian man we maie trulie saie that he is a Religious man although some be more religious then other The name of Cleargie also as it was vsed by the Fathers of olde time maie be defended and warranted by example of the scripture in respect of the especiall lot whereunto the Ministers of the Church are called as the tribe of Leui was notwithstanding that all true Christianes are the lotte or inheritance of the Lord. The name of Apostles being giuen by our Sauiour Christ him-selfe vnto his speciall embassadoures he were a madde man that would controule though other also were sent What like warrant haue Monkes and Nunnes to be called religious verelie by these examples it appeareth that which you saie of Master Charke to be verified of your selfe this man waieth not what he saith so he saie somewhat Concerning the second point Master Charke writeth plainlie if you were disposed to vnderstand him that he misliketh Popish Monkes and Nunnes not onelie for the abhominable life of the greatest parte of them but speciallie for their superstitous hypocriticall and Idolatrous profession wherein they differ from the virgines of the primitiue Church as much as in their lewd life and loose conuersation And therfore neither
he nor Doctor Folke do vse any hereticall sophistrie to condemne all for the ill life of a fewe or to condemne a lawfull calling for the misbehauiour of them that are in that vocation and much lesse for that men liue not so perfectlie in the same as they did in the primitiue Church about which hereticall consequences manie words are spent in vaine But now let vs heare what you answer to such difference as Master Charke maketh betweene the olde monkes and the newe His wordes you recite in this manner It is a plaine iniurie saith he to match those auncient Monkes of the primitiue Church with those of the popish orders for the olde Monkes liued in their house without vowes as studentes in diuinitie in Colledges they were holie painefull learned they laboured with their handes Their societies were nources of good learning and godlie life to furnish afterward the Church whereto being once called they ceased to be Monkes and left their monasteries Here first you charge him with bolde slaundering as though he said that all Monkes and sriers are vnlearned vnpainfull and vnholie whereas he saith not so knowing that some are vnlearned though neither all nor the moste part no not in this learned age manie friers also take paines in preaching which with more commendation and credit might holde their peace Yet fewe Monkes labour that waye As for labouring with the handes saie you though it be not necessarie to anie if they be occupied in greater matters yet their is no monasterie wherein some doe not exercise that function But Saint Augustine in his booke deopere 〈◊〉 holdeth it to be necessarie for all Monkes to labour and admitteth not the excuses of praying singing of Plalmes reading or preaching the word of God for anie to be priuiledged altogether from not labouring with his handes cap. 17. 18. That some in euerie monasterie with you are appointed to that function as you saie it is but a mockerie of the olde labour of Monkes and left for a shadow of some similitude with antiquitie and not taking awaie the difference set downe by Master Charke That manie Bishoppes are chosen out of monasteries and that Pius 5. chose 70. Bishoppes out of one order it is litle to the purpose For the olde monkes were not onelie chosen to the office of rich and statelie Bishoppes but to serue in the painefull office of teachers and pastours and were as Master Charke saith the nources of good learinng of the ministerie of the Church as your popish orders are not out of which they may not depart to serue the Church without a dispensation and capacitie as they call it Your iest of his poore benefice by London and the barbarres shoppe are both a like and the latter as well agreeth vnto him as the former seeing it is wel knowne he neuer had anie benefice rich or poore in London by London or farre from London The first difference you confesse to be the greatest although you speake of it last where you saie he affirmeth that the Monkes of the primitiue Church made no vowes the contrarie whereofyou prooue by manie testimonies of the auncient fathers and in the end you conclud against Master Charke asking what he will saie to this and much more that mighr be brought for this matter And maie he not blush saie yon to haue made In saing that the religion of the primitiue Church made no vowes so open and manifest alie But may not all modest Papists blush in your behalse seeing your owne forehead as it seemeth is hardned against shamefastnes for that you haue made so open and manifest a lie in saying that Master Charke affirmeth that the Monkes of the primitiue Church made no vowes whereas he saith not so but farre otherwise for these are his words they liued in their houses without any superstitious vowes Is it all one to saie they made no vowes to saie they made no superstitious vowes the like impudence you shew in charging him with cogging and foisting for placing his quotations of Saint Augustine in the margent right ouer against the matter of vowing which is both false and vniustlie laide to his charge the Printer had set them a litle wrie For the quotation beginneth right ouer against the name of Austen in the leafe or text although the taile of it extende to the line in which he speaketh of vowes The places that are quoted for vowes are speciallie against the mariage of them that haue vowed sole life yet haue we good testimonie of the fathers that such as are not able to keepe those vowes rashlie made ought to betake them-selues to the lawfull remedie of mariage Epiphanius Cat. Apostolic Haer. 61. Hieronymus ad Demetriadem c. Where M. Charke denieth Saint Augustine to be a Frier First you cauill which Austen he meaneth the Bishoppe of Hippone or of Canterburie and both you say were Monks and the later you make our first Apostle in England yet was he an Apostle from Gregorie not from Christ. What Doctor Fulke hath written of him he answereth in his confutation of Popish quarrels Pag. 43. But how prooue you that the elder Austen was a Monke as monkes were termed in his time you cite Ep. 89. tract 1. de com vita clericorum and Possidius or Possidonius in his life To the first quotation I answere that Saint Augustine in that epistle confesseth not that he was a Monke onelie he acknowledgeth that he once solde all that he had and gaue it to the poore But that he had priuate possession when he was Bishoppe Possidonius doth plainlie declare The second quotation is of no worke of Saint Augustines but of I know not what bable rule of some impudent counterfeiter whose style is as like Augustines as an asse is like a Lyon To the third I answere that the writer alledged saith that Austine when he was made prieste or elder of the Church of Hippo did institute a colledge or monasterie of studentes with in the Church which were especiallie appointed to serue afterward in the Church as they also that were afterwarde brought vp in other monasteries set vp by his schollers But neuertheles he neither calleth Augustine nor any of his schollers Monkes For these Monasteries by Augustine him-selfe are called diuersoria hostelles or Innes Demoribus eccl Cath. lib. 1. cap. 33. being distincte from Monkes which in those daies were onelie Anachorets or Caenobites both liuing in the wildernes whereas these liued within cities yet in streighter discipline then the common sorte vnder the gouernement of a verie Godly and excellent learned man in Christian charitie holines and libertie not in superstitious vowes are called by Augustine none otherwise but a laudable kinde of Christianes And all this maketh him neither Monke nor Frier You say he was not called so in English but in latine Frater and Monachus For the name of Monachus I haue answered that you are not hable to prooue it by authenticall author
if default be not in our selfe yet we saie they are sinne of them selues for which we ought to sigh and grone with the Apostle And where you saie we haue no hope of victorie because we sinne though we consent not and thereof make manie wordes in vaine of the excellencie of popish doctrine it is moste vntrue for we haue a most cer taine hope by the grace of god in Iesus Christ to haue deliuerance frō the one victory of the other that to the obtening of the crowne of euerlasting glorie Now are we come to the tenth commaundement which is contrarie to the Iesuites doctrine which you say the Censure out of S. Augustine expoundeth to be meant of consent lib. 1. denupt conc cap. 23. where S. Augustine doth not so expound this cōmaundement thou shalt not lust but sheweth as he doth in other places before noted that it is not fullfilled in this life Next to this you saie it pleaseth Master Charke to put downe foure manifest lies saying As the Papists make of the tenth commaundement two commaundements so this fellow maketh of two seuerall breaches of two diuerse commaundementes but one sinne And both these you saie are slaunders But how both these if they were slaunders should make foure lies I doe not yet see except it be by multiplication Your answere is first that the Catholikes make but one of the tenth commaundement but the question is which is properlie and distinctlie the tenth commaundement Verie well if it be a question and such a question as you conclude not to be defined in your Church you doe ill to make it an argument to conuince him of slaunder For if that opinion be true that maketh but one commaundement against coueting which few papists doe follow and yet many auncient writers doe holde as you confesse then doe the rest make two commaundemetes of that one against coueting Yes Saint Augustine you saie contendeth in diuerse places that these two clauses thou shalt not haue strange Gods and thou shalt not make any grauen Idoll are but one commaundement and therefore that the two other of coueting make two distinct commaundementes That S. Austine liketh that diuision I denie not but that he contendeth for it is vntrue And you your selfe note six auncient writers namely Origen Procopius Clemens Alexandrinus Hesychius S. Ambrose S. Ierome that follow our diuision assigning foure preceptes to the first table and six to the second To which may be added Greg. Nazianzen decalog Mosis carmine Augustine or whoesoeuer was author of those books called quaestiones ex veteri N. T. quaestione 7. Beside the authority of those olde fathers reason is against it For whereas you saie this clause Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife is the ninth commaundement and the rest the tenth Moses is against you Exod. 20. placing thou shalt not couet thy neighbours house first and then thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife which were a confusion if that which is in the second place were the ninth that which is in the first were the tenth beside the transposition that part of the tenth commaundement should be ioyned with the ninth Therefore seeing the same Moses placeth the coueting of the wife Deu. 5. in the first place it is manifest that both those clauses make but one commaundement els should it be vncertaine which is the ninth and which the tenth Againe where you saie it is moste conuenient that the twoe generall internall consentes vnto the two lusts of carnalitie and couetousnes called by Saint Iohn concupiscence of the flesh and concupiscence of the eie should be expresselie and particularlie forbidden by two distinct commaundements I answere that it is more couuenient that concupiscence of all sinnes against the second table should be forbidden in one generall commaundement And it is meruaill how in Saint Iohn you forgotte the pride of life which he ioyneth with the concupiscence of the eies and of the flesh which was as needefull to be forbidden as the other two though you saie the internall temptations against the other commaundement are neither so frequent nor so daungerous as those two Yes verely the temptations to ambition rebellion disobedience malice lying such like are both as frequent and as daungerous as vnto bodelie lust and couetousnes To that you sate they are sufficientlie forbidden by the wordes set downe in the commaundements them-selues it may be answered so are the other two and therefore all lust with consent is forbidden in euerie one of them as lust vnto adulterie in the commaundement prohibiting adulterie desire of reuenge in the commaundement prohibiting murther by our sauiour Christs owne interpretation and authority by like reason ambition or lust of disobedience in the commaundement that biddeth parentes to be honoured couetousnes in that which forbiddeth theft the lust of lying or slaundering in that which forbiddeth false witnes Therefore the commaundement of lust beeing one and general must needes be the tenth and the comaundement of hauing no gods but one the true God the first the commaundement of not making nor worshipping Images the second which are two perfectlie distinct preceptes the one commaunding the true God to be honoured alone the other commaunding the worship of God to be spirituall and forbidding all carnall imaginations of Gods worship as by Images or any other thing of mens deuise wherebie they chaunge the glorie of the immortall God into the shape of a mortall man beastes fouls or any other thing Therefore he that worshippeth Baall as a God breaketh the first commaundement he that worshippeth Iehoua in the calfe that Aaron made or the calues that Ieroboam set vp or by offering incense to the brasen serpent offendeth against the second commaundement This diuision therefore is both most conuenient as that which distinguisheth all good workes and all sinnes by their proper precepts and also necessarie as that which maketh tenne commaundements euerie one perfectlie distinct from the other and that sheweth all men all manner of sinne as well that which is in act as that which is in desire not onelie that which is with consent but euen that also which proceedeth of the corruption of nature and is resisted by the spirit of God Therefore that which you saie vntrulie of the first two braunches is true of the last that they conteine but one thing namelie a prohibition of concupiscence against any of the other five preceptes of the second table But it is a weightie argument that the 70. interpreters doe recite them distinctlie as two commaundementes in their Greeke translation How shall we know that You answere by repeating the verbe twise But that is a slender proofe for the verbe is twise repeated in the Hebrew text and in Deut. 5. once changed In the twoe first commaundements there are foure verbes denied there shalls not be thou shalt not make thou shalt not bow downe thou shalt not serue Yet these two you will haue
to be one But whie doe you flie from the authority of your vulgare latine interpreter which in both places maketh the prohibition of concupiscence one commaundement in Exod. by adding the copulatiue which is not in the Hebrew but a pure negatiue Non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis 〈◊〉 eius c. Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours house neither shalt thou desire his wife c. In Deut. by leauing out the verbe which is in the Hebrew Non concupisces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non domum non agrum non seruum non accillam non bouem non asinum vniuersa 〈◊〉 illius sunt Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife not his house not his field not his seruant not his maide not his oxe not his asse and whatsoeuer thinges are his By this translation your interpreter sheweth plainlie that he acknowledged but one commaundement against concupiscence although the sinne were set foorth in diuerse wordes And it is as great reason to make a seuerall commaundement for euerie worde that followeth as to make the concupiscence of the house one and of the wife another But you doe better to acknowledge the matter doubtfull as beeing no matter of faith and not defined by your Church because of the authority of so many aun cient fathers against you yet you haue no colour to shift of your Idolatrous woshipping of Images except you confounde the two first commaundements in one neither can you exclude the commaundement against concupiscence without consent except you deuide the tenth commaundement into two reteining the distinction that ought to be of euerie precept from other and making the law perfect which prohibiteth all sinne as I haue shewed before But it is a greater slaunder I weene that the Protestantes charge you to leaue out the second commaundement against Images where you doe but include it in the first As though you haue not in your English primers other bookes where you set forth the tenne commaundements altogether left out that precept as ten thousand bookes wil testify against you And as for your including is but a crafty hiding of it from the common people lest they should learne to detest your grosie Idolatrie and forsake your malignant Church as the mother of all abhominations against God and his true worship Your distinction of mentall adulterie from actuall adulterie and of mental theft from actual theft to make foure commaundements of two is grosse vnlearned For why should not mental murther mental disobedience or rebellion mentall slaunder or lying require enerie one a seueral commaundement distinct from actual murther actuall rebellion disobedience or treason actuall slaundering or lying And so in the wholl we should haue thirteene commaundements at the least Or els Master Charke hath truelie charged you to make the seuerall breaches of two diuerse commaundements but one sinne and the breach of one commaundement to make two seuerall kindes of sinne as you doe in the breaches of the commaundements against adulterie and theft Where our sauiour Christ saith expresselie that the looking on a woman with desire of lust is adulterie which he should rather haue saide according to your where is forbidden in the seauenth commaundement distinction it is sinne against the ninth commaundement which you saie is against mentall adulterie And so he should haue saide no more in effect but mentall adulterie is mental adulterie But our Sauiour Christ referring that sinne to the commaundement against adulterie sheweth that concupiscence without consent is an other sinne and not onelie in an other degree of the same kinde as mentall and actuall adulterie are and as anger racha thou foole are against the sixt commaundement The last reason of the censure to prooue that the first motions to lust are not forbidden is because they are not in our power where the scripture saith This comaundement which I giue the this daie is not aboue thee Master Chark replieth that the assumption of this argument which is to resist the first motions is not in our power is false You rehearse his wordes thus Our first motions are not altogether out of our power for that the gift of continencie doth more and more subdue them Here you cauill that albeit good men do cut of infinite occasions and causes of motions and temptations yet can they neuer subdue all motions But Master Charke said It is neither true that all these first motions are altogether out of our power c. neither doth it follow that we are not subiect to the lawe for such offences as we can not resist the fault being ours through corruption whie we can not resist them So that in the first part of this saying he confesseth some motions to be out of our power to resist some not out of our power which you also acknowledge and therefore your assumption if it be general is false if it be particuler the conclusion cannot be generall that to resist all the first motions of lustes is not commaunded orthus the law forbiddeth no first motions To the second parte of Master Charkes saying you answer nothing that is of the consequence of your assumption namelie that the fault being ours through corruption and such as our first father did willinglie bring vpon him and vs all our wante of power to resist offences can not exempt vs from the iustice of God This was so strong that you had not so much as a cauil against it But as though you saw it not you runne by into your vsuall path of girding our Ministers who you saie talke of continencie and mortification ech one hauing his yoke mate readie for his turne as good fellows do of fasting that sit at a full table And yet I think it is more praise to keepe temperance at a full table then to abstaine where there is hunger and nothing to eate But I pray you sir doth continencie and mortification belong onelie to vnmarried men You are as good to saie that no maried man can be a true christian seing mortification is necessarie for all Christians and continencie also not from the vndefiled bedde but chastitie from all vncleannes is commaunded generallie to all true members of Christ How the wiueles votaries in poperie performe continencie and mortification but euen of that one earthly member of vncleanes the world is to full of examples and the iustice of god will one daie make manifest To the place of Moses Master Chark saith the translation is false and corrupt which saith the commaundement is not aboue thee where Moses saith it is not hidden from thee And that the place is so to be translated and to be applied to the reuelation of the Gospel it is euidentlie declared by the plaine text and by the application thereofin the epistle to the Romanes cap. 10. 6. To this you answer that he prooueth it neitherby the words of text nor by Saint Pauls application O wretched shift when he quoteth the Chapter and verse where the
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
the next matter that you saie he prnoueth by tradition it is a question not so needefull to be decided although it may be prooued out of scripture that some of them which were Iohns disciples were baptized by him and so it is like were all the rest seeing Ierusalem and all Iurie and all the coast neere vnto Iordan were baptized by Iohn euen to the Pharisees and Saduces Publicans and souldiers it is not probable that the Apostles whoe before their calling by Christ were of honest and deuout conuersation did neglect that diuine institution which all men that would seeme to be religious made hast to receiue Furthermore you saie he prooueth by tradition the ceremonies of baptisme as deliuered by the Apostles lib. de fide Oper. cap. 9. The question is whether the Eunuch whome Philip baptized made such profession of his faith c. renouncing of the deuill as is required of them that are baptized when the scripture maketh mention onelie of a short confession that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God Where Saint Augustine sheweth that the holie ghost would haue vs to vnderstand that althinges were fulfilled in his baptisme which though they be not expressed in that scripture for breuities sake yet by order of the tradition we know that they are to be fulfilled Where tradition is not taken for that which is altogether beside the scripture but that which according to the scripture deliuereth what is to be obserued concerning the celebration of that sacrament which is the seale of mortification and regeneration That the Lordes supper should be receiued before other meates he thinketh of it as of other ceremontall matters that it came either from Apostolike tradition or from decrees of generall councell yet is it a thing not necessarie alwaies to be obserued for your selues doe housell sicke folkes at all times of the daie or night without respect whether they haue tasted any thing or no otherwise as a matter of order and decencie it is obserued of vs also to minister that sacrament before dinner and to them that be fasting if the case of necessity require not the contrarie Yet againe you saie he prooueth by tradition the exorcisme of such as should be baptized l. de nupt concu cap. 20. l. 6. cont Iulian. c. 2. But the truth is that by the ceremonie of exorcisme exsufflation and renunciation that is vsed in baptisme he goeth about to prooue that infantes before baptisme be in originall sinne and in the power of the deuill as is euident by both the places which prooue not exorcisme to haue beene receiued by tradition but by the end of that ceremonie vpon what beginning soeuer vsed in the Church at that time that infants are borne in originall sinne and subject to the power of Sathan before they be baptized The wordes of the former place are these In veritate itaque non in falsitate c. In truth therefore not in falsehoode the deuils power is exorcised in infants and they renounce him by the heartes and mouthes of their bearers because they cannot by their owne that beeing deliuered from the power of darke nes they may be translated into the kingdome of their Lorde Here is neuer a word of traditiō The second place hath these words Sedetsi nullaratione indagetur nullo sermone explicetur verum est tamen quòd antiquitas c. But although it originall sinne may be sought out by noe reason by no speach it may be expressed yet is it true that by true Catholike faith from auncient time is preached and beleeued thoroughout the wholl Church which would neither exorcise nor exsufflate the children of the faithfull if shee did not deliuer them from the power of darkenes and from the prince of death Here the auncient doctrine of original sinne is confirmed by the olde ceremonies of exorcisme and exsufflation which were vsed in baptisme to signifie that infants were by that sacrament deliuered from the guilt of originall sinne by which they were vnder the power of darkenes and death But that these ceremonies were Apostolike traditions he saith not or that they are of necessitie to 〈◊〉 vsed in baptisme when the one of them namelie 〈◊〉 is not vsed at this day for ought I know in the Popish forme of baptisme The Moscouites in place of it as it seemeth vse excreation For when the Godfathers and Godmothers answere that they renounce the deuil they spit out one the earth as it were in signe of detestation In Saint Augustines time they vsed to blow out In the last place you saie he prooueth by the same tradition that we must offer vp the sacrifice of the masse for the dead lib. de cura pro mort agenda cap. 1. 4. serm 32. de verbis Apostoli Of the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Augustine speaketh nothing but that praiers were offered for the dead at the celebration of the Lordes supper which he calleth sacrifice he saith it was by authoritie of the whol Church which was notable in that custome and that the wholl Church obserued it as deliuered from their fathers But seeing the elder Church for more then an hundred yeares after Christ had no such custome nor doctrine and especiallie seeing the same custome is against faith taught in the holie scriptures that the dead in the Lord are blessed that iudgement followeth immediatelie after death c. The authoritie of faith and trueth is to be preferred before the tradition and custome of men Neither is it to be thought to haue proceeded from the Apostles which is disprooued by the writings of the Apostles the onelie certaine witnes of the doctrine deliuered by them which is necessarie for vs to beeleeue and follow And therefore this new sir Censurer doth greatlie abuse the olde saints whome he would haue patrones of his vnwritten verities partely in charging them to referre vnto tradition many things that they doe not partlie in drawing to doctrine necessarie that which they speake of ceremonies mutable not the least in picking out one or two ouersightes to be pardoned vnder colour of them to maintaine all the grosse heresies of Poperie that are intollerable The fourteenth section Whether the Iesuites speake euil of scripture Art 6. intituled Nose of waxe IF you had ser downe Master Charkes replie betweene your Censure and your defense as reason would you should haue done for men to iudge indifferentlie betweene both you might haue spared more then two pages which you haue spent in charging him with a slaunder of the Iesuites where he reporteth that they saie the scripture is a nose of waxe when they saie it is as a nose of waxe For no reasonable man can make any other sense of those wordes the scripture is a nose of waxe but euen the same that you confesse to be the saying of the Iesuites the scripture is as a nose of waxe as Master Charke telleth you And moreouer that Paiua saith the fathers
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
dare abide by your censure to renew your defence or els to pas on to the rest of the confutation of the rest of Master Charkes replie and so to take his answer altogether LAVS DEO A CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE MADE BY WILLIAM ALLEN IN DEFENCE OF the vsurped power of Popish Priesthood to remit sinnes of the necessity of Shrift and of the Popes Pardons BY WILLIAM FVLKE Imprinted by THOMAS THOMAS Printer to the Vniuersitie of Cambridge A CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE MADE BY WILLIAM ALLEN IN DEFENCE OF THE VSVRped power of Popish priesthood to remit sinnes c. ALLEN BEcause the vniust clyame and chalenge of anie power not giuen doth highlie displease God from whome onely all preheminence of man proceedeth no doubt all Priestes Bishops who haue so long practised pardoning and punishing of sinne if they hold not the right of the excellent function of Gods owne graunt they haue built this manie hundreth yeares towardes hell and can neither auoid the heauie indignation of god in wose office and prerogatiue they haue vniustlie intermedled nor yet maruell at their disdaine amongest men seeing it is said that the vsurper of power is worthielie hated Qui potestatem sibi sumit iniustè odietur FVLKE IF the rest of your arguments were as good as this we should not neede to write anie confutation of your treatise for true it is that they which vsurpe so great a power without Gods owne graunt deserue condemnation of him and hatred of men neither of which except they repent they can be able to auoid Neither are they in better case which though they pre tend to haue some colour of graunt yet abuse the same peruerting the right meaning of the graunter to a farre other end and exersize the same after a farre other sort then their commission by which they claime authoritie in anie wise doth import And such is the case of popish priesthoode which vnder pretence of power of remitting or retaining of sinnes committed against the Church of Christ and the true pastoures thereof arrogate vnto them selues which are but Idolles and therfore not the persons authorized an absolute autoritie of pardoning according to their owne iudgement not a ministerie of reconciliation according to the will of God by a certaine deuised forme of wordes or writing and not by preaching of the Gospell For which causes and manie other although the graunt of Christ be neuer so ample vnto his Church yet it includeth not them which be his aduersaries which for their owne glorie and luker vnder shadow of Christian authoritie of binding and loosing doe practise antichristian tyrannie to be Lordes of mens conscience and to make marchaundise of their soules ALLEN But if that most holie order doe by good right reason and by the sonne of God Christ Iesus his owne warrant and speciall commission occupie the seat of iudgement erected in the Church for the gouernment of our soules and needfull search of our secret sins then it standeth lamentablie with the disobedient captains of this contempt through whose continuall call to sedition so manie haue beene caried awaie from that cbaisance that is due to the soueraing power geuen to Gods annonited FVLKE But when neither the popish order of priesthood hath any institution of God neither hath the sonne of God erected anie such seate in the Church for gouernment of our soules and needefull search of our secret sins as is pretended practised they which cal men not one lie to the contempt but also to the detestation of such vsurped tiranny are vniustly charged with sedition and disobedience against Gods annointed seeing they purpose and practise nothing but the honour of Christ the Lords anoninted with the oile of gladnes aboue all other the due estimation of those his seruantes whome he hath appointed to be the true dispensers of the graces and heauenlie treasures of his word and Sacraments vpon earth ALLEN They remember well such is their exercise in the worde how that disdaine of Moses Aarons 〈◊〉 ouer the people that then God chose to be his peculiar mooued his Maiestie to so great indignation that he droue downe Core and all his confederacie to the depth of hell both body soule themselues aliue all the people looking on their fall so fearefull The example had bin of lesse respect if his heauie hand had staid vpon the principal of that prowd sort but it did not For there perished by strange fire of the accessaries to that Schisme two hundreth fiftie moe And the grudge alas of the people not ceasing so God sent fire from heauen and wasted 14. thousand and 700. of them at once And all this saith Moses Vtsciatis quia blasphemauerint Dominum that you maie be well assured that they blaspemed our Lord God So neere doth the contempt of Gods ministers touch his owne person that in disdaine of the one there is account made of horrible blasphemie of the other This Cores as Iosephus writeth was a man that had a cast in talke to please the people as the seditious often haue and this was a great flowre of his perswasion of the people to sedition disobedience as holie write reporteth Cur eleuamini super populum Domini It is sufficient for our purpose that the whole multitude is sanctified and the Lord is in them whie doe you exalt your selues aboue the people of God Thus said the seditious against Gods Priests then and now truelie both the people and the preacher doe pipe Cores note of cur eleuamini in euerie plaie and pulpit neuer hauing in minde their lamentable fall whose steppes they like so well to follow FVLKE The example of Cores rebellion if we had forgotten by so manie treasonable deuises of the papists against the Prince and Religion breaking forth into sundrie actuall rebellions both in Ingland and Ireland we might easelie be put in remembrance whose often disapointed purposes and sometime punished practises if at length they mooue nothing to surcease from their wickednes let them remember that the Lordes long suffering so much contemned will adde infinite tormentes to their endles damnation which sleepeth not although the execution be deferred As for the application of Cores example which Allen maketh is verie ridiculous while the papists dauncing after the Popes seditious pipe charge vs for piping and that in euerie plaie pulpit Cur eleuamini as though either they had prooued themselues to be Gods Priests which be rather the deuills paragons or we refused to yeald any honour which to anie of Gods ministers either Ecclesiasticall or Ciuill by his appointment appertaineth ALLEN Mary I cannot tel wel whether the cases be comparable though I nothing doubt but ours is much worse For. S. Chrysostome saith that the disobedience of Dathon and the rest of that consederacie rose rather vpon the affectation of so high a function with admiration of their dignitie then vpon anie contempt of that power in which the
in expresse wordes absolue many of their sinnes conceiuing in their heartes as it is recorded by Saint Matthew in the historie of the healing of the man that had the palsie that Christ did iniurie to God and committed blaspemie in taking vpon him to remit mans offences whose malitious mindes and cogitations Christ did so reprehend that they might well perceiue by his sight of their inwarde secrets that he was verie God whoe onelie by nature looketh into mans heart and therefore did therebie well insinuate that they could not iustlie reprehend his doings seeing he was God in deede and might as God pardon mans offences Yet that notwithstanding he stoode not with them then vpon the right of his Godhead for the doing of this excellent function which in deede by nature and propertie is onelie perteining to him but he gaue this reason of his doeing that the Sonne of man had power to remit sinnes in earth wherebie me seemeth wherein yet I submit my iudgement to the more learned that he plainlie professed that by power receiued he might in respect of his manhoode and calling forgiue sinners and that in earth as meaning therebie to institute an order and waie how to remit sinnes here in the worlde either by him-selfe or by his ministers at whose sentence past in earth the penitent should be frree by iudgement of God in heauen For so our sauiour two or three times talking of mans ministerie in the remission of 〈◊〉 termeth it loosing in earth and the contrarie binding in earth as also he calleth Gods high sentence in the same cause loosing and binding in heauen Neither doth the interpretation of Saint Hilarie anie whit hinder my meaning whoe vpon that place affirmeth Christ to haue remitted this mans sinnes by the might of his Godheade for it standeth well that one worke should be wrought by the principall cause and yet by the office and ministerie of some secondarie cause appointed by the ordinance of God for the same vse as we see in baptisme to the remission of the childes sinne both the might of God and the ministery of man to concurre at once whereof we shall haue I trust better occasion to speake anon FVLKE It is well that you can make such light account of such as shal obiect against you that it is not lawfull for mā to vsurpe any thing which is proper to god as is the absolute power to forgiue sinnes which none can properlie and absolutelie forgiue but he against whome they be committed Therefore there is a broad difference betweene the power of God and the 〈◊〉 of man in forgiuing of sinnes God doth absolutelie and properlie forgiue sinnes committed against his law and maiestie Man by his appointment doth assure the penitent sinners of his sinnes forgiuen by God and therefore in some phrase of 〈◊〉 is said to forgiue sins as he is said to saue mens soules to whom he preached the saluation by Iesus Christ. The Scribes did rightlie affirme that none could forgiue sinnes but God onelie but they erred in that they did not acknowledge Christ to be God whoe in the person of the mediator euen in that state of humilitie in which he was conuersant vpon earth was no whit abridged of his diuine authoritie but that he might by the same power forgiue sins that he did heale diseases And whereas he saith that the sonne of man had power to forgiue sinnes vpon earth he meaneth not that he had it as meere man but as God and man in one person and that his manhoode was no let vnto him to exercise that power of his Godheade Iohn 3. he saith the sonne of man came downe from heauen and that the sonne of man is in heauen But this is not to be vnderstood of the sonne of man according to his manhood but according to his Godhead as many other such speaches are in the scripture which in respect of the vnitie of the person ascribe to the one nature that which is proper to the other as Act. 20. to feede the Church of God which he hath redeemed with his owne bloode where redemption by his bloode is affirmed of God which is proper and true in respect of Christs humanity Your modestie is commendable that you doe submit your selfe to the iudgement of other in that your conceite of Christes meaning thereby to institute an order c. for the order that he hath instituted and the power that he hath giuen of binding and loosing in earth is els where plainly and purposedlie set forth that we neede not such vnnecessary vnlikelie coniectures to ground it vpon And whereas you affirme that the interpretation of Saint Hilarie doth not any whit hinder your meaning because one worke may be wrought by the principall cause and yet by the office and ministerie of some secundarie I answere the questions is not what may be but what was done in that case whereof Saint Hilaries iudgement is flat against you His words are in Mat. com Canon 8. Mouet Scribas remissum ab homine peccatum Hominem enim tantùm in Iesu Christo confitebantur remissum ab eo quod lex laxare non poteratifides enim 〈◊〉 iustificat deinde murmurationem eorum dominus introspicit dicitque facilè esse filio hominis in terra peccata dimittere Verùm enim nemo potest dimittere pecoata nisi solus Deus ergo quiremittit Deus est quia nemo remittie nisi Deus deus in homine manens curationem homini praestabat nulla ei agendi aut loquendi erat difficultas cui subest totum posse quod loquitur Porro autem vt ipse in corpore positus intelligi possit esse qui animis peccata dimitteret resurrectionem corporibus prestaret ait vt siatis quoniam silius hominis habet potectatem in terra dimittendi peccata c. It mooueth the Scribes that sinne is remitted by a man for they did beholde a man onelie in Iesus Christ and that to be remitted by him which the law could not release For faith alone doth iustifie afterward our Lord looketh into their murmuring and saith that it is easie for the sonne of man on earth to forgiue sinnes But none truelie can forgiue sinnes but God alone therefore he which forgiueth is God be ause no man remitteth but God God abiding in man performed healing to the man and there was no difficultie to him of doing or speaking who hath power so be able to doe all that he speaketh But that he beeing placed in the bodie might be vnderstood to be the same which forgiueth sinnes to mens soules and performeth resurrection to their bodies he saith that you may know that the sonne of man hath power on earth to forgiue sinnes c. Let the reader iudge whether Saint Hilarie doe any whit in these wordes hinder your meaning And yet more plainlie Saint Chrysostome controlleth your meaning and speaketh expresselie and directlie against it in Mat. Hom.
which are often and almost alwaies if they be rightlie vsed better knowne and of greater efficacie then proper tearmes That you saie the sacraments were not commended by way of Preaching it is a grosse and impudent absurditie when they were instituted and commended to be seales of the doctrine that was preached for confirmation of faith which is builded vpon the hearing of Gods word preached As also it is a brutish assertion that Christ vsed no figuratiue speeches after his resurrection For what are these but figuratiue speeches feede my sheepe feede my lambes And what was that but a parable of Peters bandes girding him-selfe and being girded walking where he would and led whither he would not to signifie by what death he should glorifie God Neither did he affect obscurity by parables before his resurrection For his parables were vttered for better and more plaine vnderstanding of his obedient disciples although to the reprobate contemners of his doctrine they seemed hard and inexplicate and were as all things are vnto them and as Christ him-selfe was a stumbling block and stone of offence that they might fall and perish That our sauiour Christ did open the senses of his Apostles that they might vnderstand the scriptures they were the better able to vnderstand figuratiue speeches of which the scripture is full But that he did more carefully expresse his meaning for the instruction of his holie disciples I do denie for he had alwaies before as great care to expresse his meaning and without care was alwaies hable to vtter his diuine pleasure considering that he had appointed the doctrine which he preached before his resurrection to be committed to writing for the publike and perpetuall instruction of his wholl Church To the vaine insultation and boasting that followeth I answer as in the end of the last section before ALLEN All wordes then of institution of sacraments being literallie to be taken and things of so great charge not otherwise to be vnderstanded then are both by act and word of Christ sincerelie vttered we neede not doubt but the forme of Christes sentence in which he giueth the Apostles power to remit sinnes is plainly to be taken in that common sense as the same by wordes importeth and therefore that by force thereof they maie remitte sinnes And yet to make more proofe to satisfie all men I will ioyne to these wordes of our sauiour that most properlie concerne the sacrament of penance other his wordes touching our principall couclusion not vnlike whereby in conference of the like sayinges together which our aduersaries do alwaies as they would seeme well to allow trueth maie trie it selfe Therefore as our master here saith whose sinnes you shall forgiue they be forgiuen And whose sinnes you retaine they be also retained euen so said he twice before vnto the Apostles expressing in other wordes almost the same meaning and sense once to them altogether in the 18. of Saint Mathew and an other time before that in the 16. of the same Gospel to S. Peter alone To them in generall thus saith Christ If thy brother haue committed anie offence towards thee go to him admonish him priuately betwixt him and thy selfe If he take it well thou hast wonne thy brother if he regarde thee not take one or two with the that in the mouthes of two or three witnesses euerie word maie stand if he regarde not them neither then make complaint of him to the Church that is to saie as Saint Chrisostome expoundeth it to the gouernours of the Church and if he will not obey the Church then take him for no better then a Heathen and a Publicane And straight vpon these wordes lest anie man should set light by the Church or rulers thereof Christ added saith Saint Augustine a wonderfull terrour of her seuere authoritie saying Amen dico vobis quaecunque alligaueritis super terram erunt ligata in coelo quaecunque solueritis super terram erunr soluta in coelo Surelie I saie vnto you what things soeuer you binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen And whatsoeuer you loose in earth it shall be loosed in heauen This text is cleere for the Churches claime in remission of sinnes though it properlie pertaine rather to the outward power iudiciarie and court of external iudgement for open crimes and notorious contemptes then for the sinnes of the people that be secret and onelie subiect to power practized in the sacrament of penance which now lightlie is close and onelie vttered in secret to him that hath charge of his soule Neuerthelesse if the Priestes of God haue receiued power to loose and binde which is to pardon and punish open notorious crimes and contemptes which touching the guiltines of the fault doth no lesse pertaine to the power of God then the absoluing of secres sinnes doth then without question they maie pardon orretaine mans sinnes of al sortes as well in the sacrament of penance all that be confessed as in publike iudgement whatsoeuer is by witnesse prooued And as in this they maie at their pleasure where iustice requireth correct the open offender by most graue censures of Gods Church so maie the Priestes giue due penance in the sacrament for the chastisment of such sinnes as be to them confessed and for the satisfying of Gods iustice by sinne violated FVLKE If al wordes of institution of sacramets must be taken literallie then must these wordes be taken literallie This cup is the new testament in my blood The lambe is the Lordes passeouer Circumcision is the couenant and such like But as for your conclusion though inferred vpon a false principle I confesse to be true that the Apostles by force of the wordes of commission graunted to them maie remit sinnes but not properly for that the wordes do not enforce Both the places that you will ioyne to this of Math. 18. and Math. 16. are parables and figuratiue speaches of binding and loosing of the keies of the Kingdome of heauen and of a stone and buildilng of che Church thereupon neuerthelesse the text Math 18. I do acknowledge to be cleere for the Churches claime in remitting offences and that it pertaineth more properlie to the discipline of the Church then to the preaching of repentance and remission of sins whereunto the text of Iohn 21. moste properlie belongeth That you saie pennance is now lightlie close and the sinnes vttered onelie in secret to him that hath charge of his soule you do closelie confesse that otherwise lightlie you will not openlie acknowledge that your practize is contrarie to the vse of the most auncient and primitiue Church But that the ministers of the Church haue authoritie to remit sinnes as well openlie as secretlie I am content it be without question onelie this is the question whether anie thing pertaining to the proper power of God be made common to men For we holde that they do in such sorte remit sinnes as they exercise nothing that pertaineth
to the proper power of God touching the release of the guiltinesse of sinnes although in executing of discipline they maie pardon the exercise of repentance that is appointed for triall of the parties true penitencie or some part thereof which as it is enioyned by the iudgement and discretion of men so they may by the same release it as vpon good cause they thinke conuenient Where you say that Priestes may pardon or retaine mans sinnes of al sortes as wel in the sarcrament of penance al that be confessed as in publike iudgement You thrust in diuerse matters whereof there is neither mention in the text nor anie necessarie collection to be made of them out of it as the sacrament of pennance whereof there is no outward element or signe instituted then your kinde of penance which includeth some peece of satisfaction for sinnes last of all your auricular and particuler confession as though genetall confession and acknowledging of mens sinnes before God might not obtaine remission of sinnes in his sight And as though if anie sinne be not remembred in shrift the priestes remission extendeth not vnto it or if it were remembred and be hypocriticallie concealed yet the remission were good auaileable for al other sinnes that are confessed Againe it is an insolent power you giue them in open Iudgement that they may at their pleasure where Iustice requireth correct the open offender For though you seeme to qualifie their pleasure by iustice yet to ascribe that to their pleasure which is laid vpon them of necessitie what warrant haue you for it For if they maie at their pleasure they neede not except it please them Finallie your argument holdeth not that as in exercising of discipline they maie chastice the offender by the censures of the Church so they may giue due punishment for sinnes 〈◊〉 in shrift Neither are those two endes you alledge true For the chastisement of sinnes pertaineth not to them but to God and the ciuill Magistrate and the iustice of God violated by sinne is satisfied by the obedience and suffering of our sauiour Christ. Wherebie also it should follow that the power of remitting of sinnes were made void and frustrate if men must endure due punishment which you call penance for the satisfying of Gods iustice by sinne violated AILEN The other text of holie scripture containing Christes wordes to Saint Peter seuerallie by certaine notable circumstances of the letter and by wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him giueth the chiefe of all his Apostles in more ample termes and beneficiall clauses this power and perogatiue also To him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock for our Master gaue him that name new at his first calling in signification of further intent and purpose which he here vttered and vpon this rocke will I set my Church and hell gates shall not preuaile against it That so said he thus spake in plaine termes Et tibi dabo claues regni caelorum Et quodcunque ligaueris super terram erit ligatum in caelis quodcunque solueris super terram erit solutum in caelis And to thee wil I giue the Keies of the Kingdome of heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth it shall be bound in the heauens And what thou loosest in earth it shall be loosed in the heauens This promis made vnto Peter and performed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding and gouernement of all his deare flock both yong and olde doth exceedinglie import a wonderfull incomparable soueraigntie and-iurisdiction ouer mens soules For a mortall man to receiue the keies of Christes Kingdome and by them to binde loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had the full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of And when the holie Prophets do meane to set out the great and passing power giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne in earth they vse to expresse the same often by the termes of keyes as when the Prophet Esaie saith I will laie the keies of the house of Dauid vpon his shoulder he shall shut and there can none be hable to open and he shall open so that none can shut agiane And Christ him-selfe speaking to his beloued Iohn in the Apocalips saith I am the first and the last I am aliue and was dead before and I haue the keies of death and hell The keies therefore euer signifying power andgouernment of the houshold was giuen to Christ as to whom being the principal and most excellent rectour of his owne Church that he bought so dearelie they moste duelie belong But he communicated vnto Peter as to his speciall stewarde the vse of the same for the gouernment of our soules with exceeding much preheminence both in binding and loosing Yet I do not remember that anie of the olde writers do put anie great difference betwixt the authorities of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sinnes which is a thing perteining indifferentlie to the wholl order of priesthood and therfore no more proper to the Pope or Peter then to Priestes and Apostles though Origen noted well that the iurisdiction of Peter seemed by these words to be enlarged aboue the residue by that our sauiour said to him that whatsoeuer he bound or loosed in earth it should be loosed or bound in the heauens where to the rest he spoke of heauen onelie in the singular number I speake onelie of this latter clause of binding and loosing with the keies thereunto belonging For there is no doubt but great preheminence of rule and iurisdiction is promised before in the sametext now recited and els where actuallie giuen vnto him more then to the rest of his breethren Neuerthelesse euen this power of binding and loosing common to all the holie order was in him first seuerally planted for the commendation of vnitie and order as Saint Cyprian sath and so the same authoritie giuen to other might yet after a sort be deriued from his fullnes of power and perogatiue as from a fountaine FVLKE The other text of scripture containing the wordes of our sauiour Christ to Peter seuerallie giueth to him as you saie this power and prerogatiue also As for the not able circumstances of the letter the wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him the more ample tearmes and beneficiall clauses let vs examine what they are and whether they be of force to make him chiefe of all his Apostles First to him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock what then ergo he was chiefe of all the Apostles who is so madd to gtaunt the consequence To the sonnes of Zebede onelie it was said that they were Bonarges that is the Children of thunder ergo they had greater authoritie then the rest of the Apostles But of all the Apostles it was said
that they are the twelue rocks or stones the foundation of the walles of the new Ierusalem Apoc. 21. 14. and the Church is builded vpon the foundation of all the Apostles Eph. 2. 20. Secondlie you saie the promis made to him Ioan. 1. Math. 16. was perfourmed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding of all his sheepe yong and olde Ioh. 21. 2. We graunt as much but that it doth exceedinglie import a wonderful incomparable soueraigntie and iurisdiction ouer mens soules greater or other then was equally graunted to the rest of the Apostles we see not how it can be inferred of anie scripture Euerie one of the Apostles being sent into all the world to teach all nations and to preach the Gospell to euerie creature hath as generall authority to feede the shepe of Christ both olde and yong as Peter Thirdlie you saie for a mortall man to receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and by them to binde and loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of But we read that the samekeies were committed to the scribes and Pharisees and teachers of the law which they did shamefullie abuse and therfore are threatned by our sauiour Christ woe be to you teachers of the law for you haue taken awaie the key of knowledge and neither you your selues do enter and you forbid them that would Woe be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees ye hypocrites for you shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men For neither you your selues do enter nor suffer those to enter that would enter Luk. 11. Mat. 23. here you note inthese places the key of knowledge by which the kingdome of heauen should haue beene opened taken awaie and the kingdome of heauen shut vp from them that gladlie would enter if they knew which way The keies in deede do signifie power and authoritie but that onelie Peter hath those keies and not the Church and euerie true Pastour of the same or that Peter by them had greater power and authoritie then the rest of the Apostles which had them also you shall neuer be hable to make demonstration Your remembrance serueth you well that all the olde writers do make no difference betweene the authoritie of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sins But you do forget that the power of bynding and loosing was by our sauiour Christ graunted equallie to all the Apostles and to their successours though it were once singularlie vttered to one The subtiltie of Origen to make a difference betweene binding and loosing in all the heauens and in one heauen onelie beside that it is vaine in it selfe yet is it not brought of Origen to dignifie Peter aboue all the Apostles whome both vpon the place of Mat. 16. and this also he confesseth to haue receiued equall power with Peter but to prefer Peter and such as Peter was before them that haue thrise reprehended offenders and beeing not heard haue bound the sinner vpon earth iudgeing him as an heathen or publicane whereof he inferreth Quanto melior fuerit qui ligat c how much better he is that bindeth by somuch he that is bound is bound more then in one heauen and how much better he is that looseth by so much he shall be more happie that is loosed for he is loosed in all the heauens The greater preheminence of rule and iurisdiction the fullnes of power and prerogatiue deriued from Peter as from a fountaine be matters of bolde assertion but void of all manner of proofe or demonstration ALLEN But we will not stand hereon now nor yet to put difference betwixt these wordes and tearmes loosing or remitting binding or retaining nor to dispute whether these two textes more properlie signifie the authoritie and iurisdiction giuen to the spiritual Magistrates for punishing by temporal pain enioyned and releasing by mercie as they see occasion the same appointed penance againe or els it properlie concerneth the verie release of sinne it selfe or retaining the sinne which they vpon iust causes will not forgiue These thinges would grow to ouer tedious a tale and ouercurious for the simple whome I would moste helpe in these matters and I shall briefllie touch so much hereof as is necessarie hereafter when I shall dispute of pardons For in deede these two textes of binding and loosing as well spoken to Peter as to the residue afterward shall be the ground of our wholl discourse there and therefore till then we must touch these textes no further but as in common pertaineth to remitting or retaining sinnes For they are brought indifferentlie of the holie fathers with the foresaid wordes of Saint Iohn in which as I haue declared the verie institution of penance and Priestes iudgement of our soules and sinnes be moste properlie grounded Theresore that by all these wordes so often vttered by our sauiour you maie well perceiue the verie literall and vudoubted meaning to be that Priestes haue authoritie by Christes warrant to remit and retaine sinnes I will recite one or two places of most auncient fathers that they ioyning with such plaine wordes of sundrie places of scripture maie make all most sure to such as can by anie reason be satisfied First Ialledge the saying of S. Maximus an olde author a blessed saint He doth by conference couple together these textes whereon we now stand thus hespeaketh verie pithely therefore you shal heare his owne words Ne qua vos fiatres de creditis Petro clauibus regni more nostrarum clauium cogitatio terrena promoueat Clauis caeli lingua est Petri quam singulorum meritae censendo Aposiolus vnicuique regnum coelorum aut claudit aut aperit Non est ergo clauis ista mortalis artificis aptata manu sed data à Christo potestas est iudicandi Denique ait eis quorum remiseritis peccata remissa erunt quorum detinueritis detenta erunt Thus he saith in our tongue Least anie earthlie cogitation mooue you to think of anie such materiall keies as we occupy in earth when you heare of committing the keies of the kingdome to Peter you must thus vnderstand that the key of heauen is Peters word or tongue because the Apostle weighing well euerie of our deserts openeth or shutteth to euery man the kingdome of Christ. This key therfore is not made by mortal mans hand but it is the power of iudgement giuen by Christ. To be briefe he saith to them al whose sins you shal forgiue they shal be forgiuē c. Thus saith Maximus ioyning together fitly two textes for one purpose out of both maketh a moste forcible argument that the iudgement of our soules which is a passing authoritie and the verie letting in and keeping out of heauen is addicted by the keies to Peters and the Apostles ministerie For which cause also S. Gregorie calleth all Christes Apostles and the iust occupiers
same worke of binding and loosing of such sheepe of Christes folde as to them were committed And so did Saint Thomas who then was not there so did Saint Matthew who then was no Apostle so did Barnabas so did Timothie and Titus who were ordeined by Saint Paul and so did Paul him selfe of whome Saint Ambrose saith that he did remit sinnes without all derogation The good studiousereader must marke wel then that al these holie functions or passing preheminencies are not giuen to the priuate persons in respect of themselues neither of Peter nor of Paul nor any other but they are bestowed vpon them for the vse of the Church which dieth in their persons and therefore must be honoured with the same offices by other after they be dead by perpetuall succession they shall neuer cease And that caused Saint Augustine and other holie fathers to saie the keies were giuen to the Church and authoritie to remit sinnes to baptize and to enioyne penance not because the wholl Church by gathering all her children together must giue sentence vpon euerie sinner or els the priests iudgement to be nothing as some foolish seditious heades haue now to the distrurbance of the world deuised but because it is our common wealth and house of faith which is so beutified in her ministers with all kinde of sacraments and good orders for the gouernment of her children and because all men may see it was the earnest loue and carefull prouidence for this his spouse and not the persons of the Apostles in respect of them selues which mooued his wisedome to the institution of such perpetuall offices in the Church FVLKE Your conclusion is true that the power extended to al the Apostles successors but it is not strongly prooued by the example of Thomas Matthew Paull and Bernabas who were Apostles them-selues in the highest degree and therefore I like better the solution of Cyrillus which vnderstandeth the intention of Christ to haue beene of the wholl order of the Apostles and their successours although more then Thomas had beene absent at such time as he gaue that power alledging the examples of Eldad and Meldad which being of the number that were chosen to be gouernours to assist Moses although they were not present with the rest before the tabernacle yet they were indued with the spirit of prophesie because they were of the number appointed Where you saie that no doubt a Sacrament was instituted by these wordes of Christ and often haue so saide you onelie saie it and bring no proofe thereof neither doe you declare what is the visible signe of the inuisible grace nor what 〈◊〉 the element to which the worde commeth that we might acknowledge a sacrament with you That the keies are giuen to the Church although it prooue 〈◊〉 that euerie member of the Church should execute them yet it prooueth that Peter had no soueraigne nor singular authoritie of the keies aboue the rest of the Apostles but that the Pastour of euerie Church hath the same not of the gift graunt commission or permission of Peter but of the graunt and immediate commission from Iesus Christ him-selfe Whether the power of excommunication perteine to all the Church or to certaine chosen gouernours thereof it is a question not incident to this to be handled ALLEN Hereupon therefore and in consideration that the keies of opening and shutting heauen by binding and loosing mans sinnes shall euer remaine for the vse and honour of the Church the saied holie Saint Augustine hath these wordes Claues dedit Ecclesiae suae vt quae solucrit in terra soluta essent in coelo quae ligauerit in terra ligata essent in 〈◊〉 Christ deliured the keyes to the Church that whoesoeuer shee loosed in earth should be loosed in heauen and whatsoeuer shee bound in earth should be bound likewise in heauen And Optatus his equall striuing with the Donatistes for all holie giftes which Christ bestowed vpon his Church challengeth all other sacraments and namelie the keies for the Catholike and vniuersall Church from the part of Donatus the heretike as in the right of Peter He saieth exceeding pithely Claues darae sunt Petro non haereticis And afterwade Cathedram Petri quae nostra est per ipsam caeteras dotes apud nos esse probamus etiam sacerdotium The keies are giuen to Peter and not to heretikes by the chaier of Peter which is ours we prooue all other giftes of the Church to be ours yea euen priesthoode Thus he hath in sense in diuerse places By which we see the inrisdiction and power giuen to the principall Apostle yet to remaine and by it all other the Churches notable preheminences which he calleth Ecclesiae dotes The douries of the Church through his wholl discourse against the Donatists So doth Epiphanius attribute the power of penance and pardon to the Church likewise not onelie in baptisme which he calleth the moste perfect penance but also afterwarde vpon the parties relapse in which case the heretikes called Cathari affirmed that the Church had no authoritie to pardon them any more Against which pernicious sect he sayeth If any man fall after his baptisme the Church will not be vnmercifull to him Dat enim reuersionem post poenitentiam For shee giueth him leaue to returne and hath penance after penance By which he noteth that the Church hath two sacraments for remission of sinne the one is baptisme which he termeth perfect penance with Saint Paul to the Hebrewes And Saint Augustine doth call it in his En. chiridion Magnam indulgentiam a graund pardon And afterward The Church hath an other kinde of remission which Epiphanius calleth poenitentiam post poenitentiam But of these two more shal be said anon After this 〈◊〉 doth Lactantius 〈◊〉 to the true Church confession penance and profitable healing of our woundes and such sores as be found in our soules By all which euerie man may conceiue easelie that this honour and commission of priesthoode for the remission of our sinnes did not decaie with the Aposties appointed by Christ nor shall cease till Christes comming to 〈◊〉 the worlde FVLKE These testimonies needed not to be heaped vp in vaine but that you would beare the ignorant in hand most iniurioslie that Caluin and the better learned of the protestants do holde that the power of binding and loosing ated with the Apostles and continueth not in the Church Saint Augustines wordes are as you cite them but there followeth immediatlie an explication which you haue omitted Scilicet vt quis quis in Ecclesia eius dmitti sibi peccata non crederet non eidimitterentur quisquis autem crederet seque ab his correctus auerteret in eiusdem Ecclesiae gremio constitutus eadem fide atque correctione sanareiur Quisquis enim non cred it dimitti sibi posse peccata fit deterior disperando quasi nihil illi melius quà m malum esse remanear
For at this daie the Bishops that be throughout all Christendome how rose they to that roome The Church calleth them fathers and yet shee did beget them and she placed them in that roome of their fathers Non ergo reputes desertam quia non vides Petrum quòd non vides Paulum quòd non vides illos per quos nataes de prole tua tibi creuit paternitas pra patribus tuis natisunt tibi filij constitues eos principes super omnem terram Do not therefore think thy selfe desolate because thou hast not Paull because thou hast them not now present by whome thou wast borne of thy owne issue fatherhood is growne to thee and for thy fathers thou hast brought forth sonnes them shalt thou make the rulers ouer al the earth Thus much out of Saint Augustine By whome you maie perceaue the great prouidence of God that euerlastinglie vpholdeth the ordinance of his sonne Christ Iesus as well now by the children borne from time to time in the Churches lap as before in the spring of our faith by the Apostles sent and appointed in person by Christ him-selfe FVLKE I suppose the title of your booke will admonish you not to restraine this office onelie to Bishops which so often you haue made common to all priestes For Gregory also in the same homyly nameth often times all pastours of the Church to whome the power of binding and loosing doth appertaine which are many other beside Bishops Moreouer inueighing against the ignorance and vnworthines of them that occupied such places which take vpon them to loose where God doth binde and binde where God doth loose he concludeth that then the absolution of the gouernours of the Chuch is true when it followeth the will of the eternall Iudge By which saying and more to the like effect in that place he declareth his iudgement of the kinde of power or authoritie which the Church hath that it is not absolute but subiect vuto the will of God and is an expressing of Gods forgiuenes or retaining not a proper forgiuing or retaining The saying of Saint Augustine prooueth in deede a continuance of the ministery of the Apostles in the office of Bishops but hereof it followeth not that onelie Bishops as they are distinct from priestes haue this power for not onelie Bishops be the children of the Church but all faithfull men to whome the inheritance of the world is like wise appointed ALLEN And here you must know that not onelie Bishops who succeede the Apostles in all kinde of power and regiment but also all other inferiour Priestes to be compted with them as successors in ministring diuerse sacraments as baptisme penance the reuerend Sacrament of the Aultar and such like but looke what power either Apostle or Bishop hath in remission of sinnes in consecrating Christes bodie in baptizing the same hath the wholl order of holie Priesthood by the right of their order and maie practize the same vpon such as be subiect vnto them in all causes not exempted for reasonable causes by such as haue further iurisdiction ouer the people Wherof I will not now talke particularlie the learned of that order know the limits of their charge and commission better then I can instruct them and the simpler sort must seeke for knowledge of their duetie by the holie Canons of Councels and decrees of Bishops made for that purpose I can not now stand thereon meaning at this present onelie to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Chistes owne word giueth which in this contempt of vertue and religion is moste necessarie for all men to consider FVLKE There is no power or authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ to preach the word of God or to minister anie sacrament but the same is common to euerie one of the Pastoures of the Church and not onelie lawfull but also necessarie for them to exercise in their seuerall charges Wherefore that ministering of some sacraments is permitted to them and of other denied them it is beside the word of god Againe the word of god that giueth them general power whose sinnes soeuer whatsoeuer you shal bind or loose is directlie against al exempted cases which sauor of nothing but of Antichristian tyrannie As for the cannons of Counceles and decrees of Bishoppes whether you send the simple to learne the limites of their charge can not restraine that Christ hath enlarged and therefore if your meaning were as your wordes professe to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Christes owne worde geueth you would enueigh against the pride and ambition of the Pope other prelates that exempt anie cases from the Priests power and authoritie which the holie scripture and the expresse wordsof our sauiour Christ doth in such ample manner graunt vnto them ALLEN Therefore vpon our large discourses for this last point I now deduct the particulars to this summe which maie stand for a certaine marke as well for the good to discerne the trueth as for the aduersaries to shoote at whiles they liue Alpower and euery iurisdiction or right of Christs Church remaineth as amplie and in as full force and strength at this daie and shall till the worlds end so continue as they were by Christ graunted first in the persons of the Apostles or other instituted But the power of remission of sinnes was giuen properlie and in expresse termes to the Apostles Ergo the same remaineth still in Gods Church Whereupon it is so cleare that the Priestes at this day haue as ful power to forgiue sins as the Apostles had And this argument of the continuance of all offices and righte of the Church is the moste plainest and readiest waie not onelie to helpe our cause now taken in hand but vtterlie to improoue all false doctrines and detestable practises of heretikes For they must here be examined diligentlie what common wealth that is what Church that is in which Christ doth prescrue the gouernment giuen to the Apostles where it is that the power not onely os making but also of practizing al sacraments hath continued still what companie of Christian people that is wherein the Apostles Doctors preachers ministers through the perpetuall assistance of Gods spirit be continued for the building vp of Christes bodie which is the number of faithful people What Church that is which bringeth forth from time to time sonnes to occupy the romes of their fathers before them It is not good reader the pelting packe of Protestants It is not I saie and they knowe it is not their petie congregations that hath till this daie continued the succession of Blshoppes by whome the world as Saint Augustine saith is ruled as by the Apostles and first Fathers of Religion Surely our mother the Church hath hene long baren if for her Fathers the Apostles who died so long since she neuer brought forth children til now to occupie their roomes and
Christ gaue them the holie Ghost But Caluinsaith notso but that authoritie to remit sinnes is graunted to be exercised by preaching both priuatelie and publikelie that is to assure men that God doth remit their sinnes and that the giftes of the holie Ghost were graunted to the Apostles that they might be inabled to exercise that high office and function which giftes no man hath power to giue but onelie God neither doth anie man at this daie receiue them in such plentifull measure but that he maie erre of whomesoeuer he be ordeined or sent to preach Neither doth Caluin require that power of not erring but onelie in them that arrogate vnto them-selues an absolute power to remit sinnes as properlie as the holy Ghost doth forgiue them who we knowe cannot erre in binding him that is to be loosed or loosinge him that is to be bounde as popishe pristes doe which yet presumptucusly and blasphe mouslie arrogate vnto them-selues such power and authoritie That it standeth well with Gods houour that mortall men should ren it sinnes and that Nouatus the heretike was of olde condemned for denying the same and that he was the father of this heresy which denyeth the Priests authoritie THE SEVENTH CHAP. ALLEN Now by all our former discourse the right of remission of sinnes sufficiently prooued to pertain to priesthood some will perhaps count it vaine labour to make more declaration of that which is so plaine or further to establish that by reason which standeth so fast on scriptures But if anie so thinke they see net the wyde waies of heresie nor the manifolde shifies that she attempteth euen there where shee maie seeme to be fullie beaten The simple and the sinfullstand moste in her danger that can not in their lack of intelligence compare reason to reason nor gather one trueth of an other and therefore to their mouthes we must chew all meates verie small els there could be no great need of their further information how this claime of remission of sinnes or the vsisall practize thereof could stand with Gods glorie For being answerable to his ordinance it can not but be agreeable with his honour But because in desperate cases our aduersaries haue taught their fellows there to wrangle vncurteouslie where they can not mantaine reason pithelie I will not onelie serue my cause but sometimes pursue their follie though I doubt not but the wisdome of God shal more and more appeare touch ing his meaning in our matter not alonelie by our defence but a great deale the rather by their discontentation Now therefore intending to declare that this preheminence of priesthood doth nothing abase or derogate to Gods aignitie I think it not amisse to match our new doctours of whome I heare often this complaint with other their forefathers that at once both trueth maie fullie be serued and a yoke of aduersaries ioyntlie drawing against the Church and our saluation may be almost with one breath refuted Our yong masters may be glad to grow so high in gods Church as to be reprooued with them who were condemned thirteene hundreth yeares since and though they be so modest that lightlie they list not crack of their auncestours yet we will not defraud them of that glorie nor healpe our cause by dissimulation of their great antiquitie It is their pusillanimitie I know that they will not often in distresse of their doctrine call for aid of their forefathers who were doubtlesse verie auncient and manie of them within the first six hundred yeares In other causes Vigilantius might healpe in some Iouinian would attend vpon them Manes might do them often high pleasure Iulianus the apostata a prince for their purpose Simon Magus one of the Apostles age would stand by them surelie if our aduersaries had 〈◊〉 they would well neere winne of vs by antiquitie And truelie I can not dissemble with them in this cause that now is in hand they haue one patron against vs of yeares very auncient and of reason much much like vnto themselues Nouatus is his name of whome the followers were called of the Church Nouatians but them-selues liked to be called Cathari that is to saie cleane and vndefiled persons Their opinion was that such as did fall into anie mortall sinne after Baptisme could not by anie man or meanes be assoiled thereof and for that they dissalowed the Churches wholl practize of mercie and remission of sinnes in the sacrament of penance nothing dissagreeing from Caluin that condemneth the saying of Saint Ierome as sacrilegious where he writeth that penance is as a second beord of refuge whereby after shipwrack a man may be saued Neither did Nouatus denie but himselfe might haue mercie and giue pardon after mansfall but the Church could not therein meadle as he thought without singular iniurie to Christ and his onelie prerogatiue And that he ioyneth in this matter fullie with our men that they maie take more comfort on him you shall perceiue by Socrates one of the writers of the Tripartit historie who saith thus Nouatus scribebat Ecclesus ne eos qui Daemonibus immolauerant ad sacramenta susciperent sed inuitarent quidem ad poenitentiam remissionem verò Dei relinquerent potestati cuius solius est peccata remittere Nouatus wrote his letters to diuerse Churches that they should not admitte anie man to the Sacramentes that had sacrificed to Diuelles but that they should onelie mooue them to doe Pennance and committe to God the remission of their sinne who onelie can forgiue mans offences And therefore though in some other point Nouatus did ouerpricke his children yet herein they fullie meet in one Epiphanius writeth that he denied saluation to those that did fal to greeuous crimes after their Christendome and therewith did holde that there was but one penance which was done in baptisme after that the Church to haue none How hansomelie he defended this error and vnmercifull heresie ye shall see anone by Saint Ambrose who learnedlie followed and chased him or his followers in an wholl worke written for that purpose In the meane time it were good for the more credit of the man and his cause to note with the auncient Doctors of his daies his conditions his comming vp his proceeding and practizes S. Cyprian who was most molested with him knew him best geueth him this praise Nouatus was a man that delighted much in nouelties and newes of insatiable auarice a furious rauin with pride and intollerable arrogancie almoste puffed past him selfe knowen and taken of all Bishoppes for a naughtie packe condemned by the common iudgement of all good Priestes for a faithlesse heretike curious and inquisitiue them to betraie for to deceiue alwaies readie to flatter in loue neuer faithfull nor trustie a match euer fired to kindle sedition a whirle winde and storme to procure the shipwrake of faith and to be short an aduersarie to tranquilitie and an enimie of peace These were his conditions then FVLKE In the latter
contrarie doings may be What Epiphanius writeth of his heresie and Saint Ambrose confuted the same is shewed before as also how truelie Caluine is charged to iumpe with Nouatus in denying repentance after Baptisme because he calleth baptisme the sacrament of repentance as before him the auncient writers vsed accustomablie whereof you maie reade in his institution the place before mentioned ALLEN Mary long before that his fall to heresie S. Cornelius writein that he was possessed in his youth with an euill spirit for which he had to do great while with coniurers that he lacked all the holie solemnitie of Baptisme and confirmation and consequentlie the Spirit of God which by them he should haue receiued and therefore tooke orders against the law vpon sinister fauour and afterward by vnlawfull artes attempted to get abishopricke with great othes protesting that he would not be a Bishop if he might But when indeede he could not attaine to that holie dignitie which he so inwardlie and intollerablie gaped for he fell in despite of Gods Church to heresie that he might get that without order whch he could not obtaine in the right manner of the Churches making And for that purpose he procured three base Bishops out of a straunge and remote part of Italie who neither knew the case the man nor his manners and them through ignorance he beguiled and by force caused them to consecrate him Bishop by the colour whereof for true imposition of hands was it none sodenlie he appeareth as a new creature a Bishop of a strange stamp apparuit Episcopus velut nouum Plasma saith Cornelius And for this attempt one of the poore Bishops did great penance the other two were deposed In the meane time this mocke Bishop vendicabat sibi euangelium challenged the word of the Lord for him-selfe denied him-selfe to be a Priest because he would not giue to the people as Theodoritus saith in their extremitie the remedie for their sinnes which is nothing els but to giue them absolution which worke he could neuer abide To be short he was so incensed against his lawful Paslour and superiour the holie Bishop of Roome that in the deliuerie of the blessed sacrament to the people he would force them to take an oth by the blessed bodie which they had in their handes readie to receiue that they should stick to him and for sake the Bishop of Rome Cornelius All these thinges in sense hath Eusebius of Nouatus the first patron of the Protestants doctrine concerning the impugning of the Churches title in remission of sins of which her right he would haue robbed her in pretence of maintenance of Gods honour Whereby he also abrogated the wholl Sacrament of penance This falsehood though it were streight with he author condemned in a great Councell holden at Rome and afterward in diuerse Prouinciall Synodes and by the holie councell of Nice it selfe repressed also Yet it spred very sort and cintinued long and was not onelie by S. Cyprian but also by Dyonisius Alexandrinus Saint Amb ose and Saint Chrysostome refused in sundrie workes written against the Nouatians By whome and other though the course of that false assertion was often broken in gods Church yet in some partes they did knit againe sometimes by certaine heretikes of Nouatus daies called Tessarescedecatitae qui auersabantur poenitentiam saith Theodoritus who did abhorre penance and sometimes by a sort called Iacobitae 〈◊〉 whiles by wrcliffe his else by the Waldenses now and than by the Anabaptistes latly by the Lutherans moste of the protestantes by the Caluinistes eueryone All which blacke band though they agree not at euery pinch of Nouatus heresit for it is not possible that such should euer fullie consent yet all these knit tailes together in this that there is no sacrament of penance after Baptisme in which the priest may forgiue sinnes and that it standeth not with gods honour so to remit the peoples offences Of other the like heresies which he lent our men as of forbidding holie Chrisme and annointing of such as were by him baptized in so much that the holie fathers were glad to make vp the lacke thereof in all such as came from their heresie to the vnitie of Christes Church I will not here speake purposing onelie because that onelie concerneth our matter to refute that olde heresie raised so long since against the prerogatiue of Gods priests and onelie helpe of our sinnes that at once both the author and the ofspring may be fullie ouer throwen FVLKE Nouatus as he is described by Cyprian but that he came too soone before the open reuelation of Antichrist had beene a man much more fit to make a Pope of the Church of Rome whereof he was mockbishop then a poore minister of the Church of England And whatsoeuer you gatherout of Euseb. Theodoret or any other writer against him declareth that he was an execrable man but maketh no resemblance of his heresie with our doctrine concerning the power of remitting of sinnes You saie that he lacked all the solemnitie of baptisme and confirmation and consequentlie the spirit of God which by them he should haue receiued Eusebius indeed out of the Epistle of Cornelius writeth that after he was helped by exorcistes he fell into dangerous sicknes and being at the point of death and not considering he receiued baptisme in his bed if it may be said that such a one receiued For after he escaped his sicknes he obtained not therest whereof he should haue bin partaker according to the canon of the Church that is to be sealed or confirmed of the Bishope and hauing not obtained this how obtained he the holie Ghost By which wordes Cornelius meant that he which was baptized in extreamitie when he knew not what was done vnto him and afterward when he was whole had no care to approoue his baptisme by the Bishoppes iudgement vpon his owne confession acknowledging of Christian Religion could not be taken for a right Christian much lesse according to the discipline of those daies might be admitted vnto the ministerie But being admitted by a singular and if you will a sinister dispensation in time of persecution he was so fearefull that he denied himselfe to be a Priest when he was desired to come vnto them and onelie by wordes to confirme them that were stricken with the terrour of the tyrant as Therdoret writeth The oathe that he exacted of such as receiued the Sacrament of the Lordes supper at his handes was more like the oath that the pope exacteth of all Bishopes at their consecration then anie ministred in the Queenes Maiesties visitation That Wickliffe the Waldenses Luther or Caluine do denie repentance or reconciliation of them that are fallen after Baptisme it is a meere slaunder although they denie the Popish sacrament of penance whereof there was no mention in the Chuch manie hundred yeares after Nouatus That the Nouatians did not anoint those that
name and authoritie shall sufficientlie beate downe these mens boldnes Saint Ambrose in this case is moste plaine and standeth with the Nouatians as I doe now with the Zuinglians euen in the verie same argument in these wordes Sed aiunt se Domino deferre reuerentiam cui soli remittend orum oriminum potestatem reseruent imò nulli maiorem iniuriam faciunt quà m qui eius volunt mandata res indere commissum munus refindere nam cùm ipse in Euangelis suo dixerit Dominus Iesus accipite Spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata c. quis est ergo qui magis honorat Vtrum qui mandat is attemperat an qui resistit Ecclesia in vtroque seruat obedientiam vt peccatism alliget laxat That is to saie These Nouatians saie that they denie penance or power to remit sinnes in earth in respect of the maintenance of such honour as is due to God to whome onely they will reserue the pardoning of mans sinnes But in deede none doe so much iniury to Gods glory as those which breake his commaundements and make a diuision of that charge and commission which he giueth For seeing our Lord Iesus by his owne mouth spake these words Receiue ye the holy ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen and whose sinnes you holde they beholden who in this case more honoureth God He that obeieth his commaundement or he that resisteth the same The Church obeieth in both as well in binding as in loosing Thus there And a litle after Looke to whome this charge was giuen and that person may lawfullie and with Gods good leaue vse the same Au l therefore the Church may lawfullie both binde and loose heresie and her attendants can rightlie doe neither This right is onelie committed to priests and therefore the Church rightlie challengeth that authoritie because shee hath lawfull priests and so heresie cannot doe because shee hath not the priests of God in her cursed congregation Thus said Saint Ambrose for the answere of the Nouatians in his daies and so say I now in the Churches behalfe against the like affected enemies of Christs honour which whiles they in face of scripture and Gods word would seeme to defend they are become sworne aduersaries of his honour and open contemners of his commaundements and holy ordinance Saint Ambrose here taketh it for a ground that it is Gods ordinance that Priests should remit sinnes he is bolde to call the contrarie doctrine heresie he maketh a principle of this that it neuer dishonoureth God that man should doe that which God giueth him either commaundement or commission to doe in his behalfe he taketh it for a knowne trueth that as the Church of God hath true and lawfull priests so shee may by them vpon Christes warrant bath loose and binde and contrariwise that heresie may well enough giue ouer that right of remission of sinnes because shee hath lightlie no lawfull priests by whome shee may practize the same FVLKE First you make a vaine exclamation or outcrie as though heresie hath spoiled the Church of her treasures vnder pretence of Gods glorie but such rhetoricall vamties all wise men will deride The Church is not spoiled of her treasures when neither Christ nor his grace is conteined in the sacraments but when Christ her onelie treasure is spoiled of his glorie of sole redemption and fatisfaction for our sinnes or of any other parte of the office that belongeth to the mediator Therefore it is her greatest honour that Christ may haue his true honour in whome with whome she hath al things not to the glory of flesh bloode but to the glorie of God to whome all glorie of right belongeth what Saint Ambrose did write against the Nouatians pertaineth not to vs who denie neither the power of remitting nor of reteining of sinnes but graunt both But that Saint Ambrose did not meane of such a power as the Papists doe claime I haue shewed before out of his owne wordes in the same place where he saieth that our Lord hath chosen such Disciples as should be interpreters of their Lordes will This power is graunted to all true ministers of the Church that they are the Legates or embassadors of god to declare his wil pleasure vnto men aswel for remitting as for reteining of sins And therefore Nouatus or Nouatianus did very absurdlie by Saint Ambrose his iudgement that did arrogate vnto himselfe power to reteine sinnes while he pronounced that they which fell into Idolatrie after Baptisme might not be receiued into the Church vpon any trial of their repentance and would not yeald that the ministers of the Church by the same authoritie might pronounce that they which were truelie penitent of their former wicked behauiour were forgiuen in the iudgement of God which was to remit their sins vpon earth with faith in Gods promise that they shall be forgiuen in heauen Thus the answere of Saint Ambrose vnto the Nouatians doth nothing in the world make against vs which denie no power that Christ hath graunted to his Church vnder collour of maintenance of Gods honour ALLEN And surelie it is a maruclous force of trueth or rather the might of Gods prouidence that driueth Heretikes to disdaine destroie and dissanull the graces and manifold giftes of Christes Church that impugning them where the verie right of such holie actes doe lie they may plainlte confesse and to their shame acknowledge that they haue none such themselues nor cannot by Gods warrant challenge any such giftes which with all their might they would wholie if they could together with Gods spirit and Church extinguish Alas into what miserie hath this forfaken flocke willfullie cast them selues and their adherentes which can forsake Gods house vbi mandauit Dominus benedictionem vpon which God hath bestowed his blessing abide there where by their owne confession there is no Priesthood no penance no host no sacrifice no remission where they can let of sinnes no grace in sacramentes nor no gift of the holie Ghost All other herisies lightlie by force of the Fathers Doctrine and iudgement lost either their Priesthood because they had no waie out of the Church to make Priestes as Saint Hierome writeth of Hilarie the Deacon or els the vse and function of Priesthood by reason the workes of God cannot be orderly nor benefi iallie vsed out of the house of God and yet they euer claimed to themselues not onlie the order but for moste parte all other functions that by Christ and his Church were annexed to that order but ours wherein they passe all their forefathers in a manner willinglie giue ouer the wholl profession freelie and without compulsion denie them selues with Nouatus to be priestes denie to sacrifice denie to enioyne penance denie to giue the holie ghost either by imposition of handes or by Chrisme or by any other solemne right of Gods Church To be short take nothing from these fellowes that belongeth
then vntill you haue made a shew of trueth and then straight giue it ouer challenging a proper power properlie to remit sinnes euen the power that is proper to God and the same to exercise as properlie as God doth with deification of your Priestes persons and such other arrogant assumptions Where you saie that God doth not resigne his right to the waies and workes of anie diuine function giue ouer the wholl title that is due to him-selfe in the said diuine actes I adde that he doth neither resigne his right nor his practize or exercise there of he doth not giue ouer his wholl title or anie parte or portion thereof When you go about to demonstrate your proposition you saie that Christ resigned his roome but not his right A pretie collusion of words but a matter ful of her eticall meaning For Christ resigned neither his roome nor his right when he ascended into heauen but set himselfe downe in the throne of magnificence that he might fullfill all things with his glorious an gracious presence by which he continueth with his Church vnto the end of the world Neither hath he neede of anie substitute or vicegerent to exercise anie point of that office which is proper to the vniuersall head of the vniuersall Church neither can anie mortal creature exercise the office of the head of the whol Churh because it is a meere diuine power by euerlasting right as you confes proper to our sauiour Christ that from him as from the head life and all powers of life should flowe into his wholl Church and euerie true member thereof And therefore whatsoeuer from the beginning he hath exercised in his owne person he doth not now practize by anie other but still by himselfe and in his owne person But the office of teaching which in his humanity he exercised and before his incarnation was exercised by the Prophets and Priests he hath committed to his Apostles Euangelistes Prophets Pastours and Teachers vnto the end of the world but that one man should rule his whol Church either by doctrine or discipline whereunto it is not possible for him to haue an eye and ouerseeing Christ hath neuer appointed but as he hath appointed seuerall teachers so also hath he ordained seuerall gouernours And no more possible it is that one man should rule and gouerne al the Church then it is possible that one man should teach al the Church despersed as it is now and hath been of olde ouer al the face of the earth But that Peter or anie other man should rule the Church in Christes steade you saie it prooueth much that Christ is head of the Church according to his manhood That Christ who is God and man is head of his Church it is a Christian confession But that Christ is head of his Church according to his manhood I see not how it differeth from flat Nestorianisme or Arrianisme For wholl Christ is head of his Church according to that he was head thereof before his incarnation and flesh assumpted yet intended and he is head of his Church according to that he filleth all in all Ephes. 1. It is one thing to saie that Iesus Christ or the man Iesus Christ is head of his Church another thing to saie that Christ is head of his Church according to his manhood Beside I know not what humane head ship you ascribe vnto Christ that make him head in respect of such externall regiment as may be exercised by man and yet by no one man alone but by manie men at once in this dispersion of the Church all which acknowledge Christ to be their onelie head because they must gouerne the Church by his word onelie and by lawes framed agreeable vnto the same That the Protestantes bring foorth children to Caluin or Luther it is nothing but tailing without reason For the Protestantes are willing to departe with anie pretence of right or honout so that God maie haue his whol glory by such meanes as he hath appoin ted Therefore according to Saint Augustines allusion they beget children by preaching of the Gospell vnto Christ and not to them selues The function of Preaching you saie is Christes still If you meane that he is the author of the doctrine preached and so the onelie master and teacher of his Church it is true but this function the Protestantes claime not but to be ministers appointed to declare this doctrine in the world This function as a part of his humiliation hath he cleane giuen ouer since his ascension and appointed in his stead Apostles Euangelistes Prophets Pastours and teachers to exercise the same function to the edifying of his Church vntill the end of the world You charge vs to saie that the function of Preaching is meant by remitting of sinnes which we saie not For Preaching extendeth further then the remitting of sinnes But we saie that by preaching publiklie or declaring priuatelie as the case requireth the grace and mercie of God in pardoning all penitent and beleeuing sinners the minister of God doth remit sinnes in the name of Christ while the pardon pronounced by him is of as great force to assure the re pentaunt sinner of remission of his sinnes as if Christ him-selfe should declare it out of heauen wherein we speake neither foolishlie nor against the common sence of all the fathers as by some of their writinges alledged before I haue plainlie declared ALLEN And they that are most tender in outward words of Godshonour will yet seeme to occupie that his proper function with out all derogation to his right therein But in deede their preaching which is their remission of sinne is not the power of God to saluation but it is his permission for our great punishment The lawful doctrine of Christs Church is truely no lesse theproper work of Christ then is forgiuenes of sinnes yet it is with out controlling of Nouatians Heretiks exercised by mans ministerie in earth S. Augustine saith hereof thus Christus est qui docet Cathedram in coelo haber scholaipsius in terra est scholaipsius corpus ipsius est It is Christ which teacheth and he hath his pulpit in heauen and his schoole in earth and his schoole is his body the Church Christ doth not then resigne vp his office in preaching no more then he doth his authority of pardoning no man succeeding him in either of the roomes but occupieth both vnder him in his Church which is his inheritance for euer the which Churh holdeth by him as a schoole to teach trueth in as a court and iudgement seat to pardon or punish sinnes in Thus he FVLKE The proper function of Christ which is to be the onelie author of the true Doctrine that is taught in the Church none of vs will presume to occupie we leaue that blasphemie to the Pope and the popish Church but the Gospel which we preach is the power of God vnto saluation in the remission of our sins reuealed
notis corporaliter siue ignotis Omnes enim mali spiritualiter à bonis seiuncti sunt Ecce hic dicit peccata dimitti vel teneri à sanctis viris tamen spiritum sanctum ea dimittere dicit quod maiori consideratione dignum est idem etiam dicit quod Deus per se vel per sanctos suos tantùm dimittit peccata ait enim sic sacramentum gratiae dat Deus etiam per malos ipsam vero gratiam non nisi per seipsum vel pcr sanctos suos ideo remissionem peccatorum vel per seipsum facit velper ipsius columbae membra quibus ait si quibus dimiseritis aimittentur Ecce quà m varia à doctoribus traduntur super his in hactanta varietate quid tenendum Hoc sane discere sentire possumus quod solus Deus dimittit peccata retinet tamen Ecclesiae contulit potestatem ligands soluendi Sed aliter ipse soluit vel ligat aliter Ecclesia Ipse enim per se tantùm dimittit pecca tum quia enim animam mundat ab interiore macula à debito aeternae mortis soluit Non autem hoc sacerdotibus concessit quibus tamen tribuit potestatem soluendi ligandi id est ostendendi homines ligatos vel solutos vnde Dominus leprosū sanitati priùs per se restituit deinde ad sacerdotes misit quorum iudicio ostenderetur mundatus When sinnes are forgiuen to him that is truelie turned to God they are forgiuen by them to whome he him selfe by true conuersion is ioyned The holie ghost forgiueth them which is giuen to all the Saints which are knit together in charitie whether they know one another corporallie or not Likewise when any mans sinnes are reteined they are reteined by them from whome he is disioyned by prauitie of heart whether they be corporally knowne or vnknowne For all euill men are spirituallie separated from good men Beholde here he saieth that sinnes are forgiuen or reteined by the Saints or holiemen Ana'yet he saieth that the holy ghost doth forgiue them and that which is worthie of greater consideration the same Doctor also saith that God by himselfe or by his Saints onelie remittesh sinnes For thus he saieth The sacrament of grace god giueth euen by euilmen but grace it selfe not but by himselfe he causeth or by the members of that doue to whome he saith if to any ye shal forgiue they shal be forgiuen Beholde how diuerse thinges are deliuered by the Doctors concerning these matters and in this so great variety what is to be holden This truelie we may saie and thinke that onely God forgiueth sinnes and reteineth and yet he hath giuen power to the Church of binding and loosing but otherwise doth he him selfe bind and loose otherwise the Church For he him selfe by him selfe onelie forgiueth sinne because both he clensith the soul from the inward spot and looseeh from the debt of eternall death But this he hath not graunted to the priests to whome notwihstanding he hath giuen power of binding and loosing that is to saie of declaring men to be bound or loosed whereupon our Lord did first by him seifere store the Leper to health asterwards sent him to the priests by whose iudgement he might be declared to be clensed Thus writeth the Master of the sentences with more to this effect In your second argument brought to prooue that penance is a sacrament I denie the Antecedent that there is any wordes of institution to prooue your sacrament of penance Where you feare vainlie least we will shortly seeke to baptize by preaching as we wil absolue you onelie by the same you declare nothing but your harde conceit of vs. For we are olde enough to know the difference of the ministerie of the worde and the sacrament a sunder To compare vs with Nouatus either in the one point or in the other you haue no cause in the world but your owne malicious and slaunderous humor For we doe not admit the power of remission where we list but wheresoeuer God hath graunted it and in what manner soeuer he hath appointed it to be exercised We are readie to receiue the publike penitents that with plentie of teares and other outward signes doe testifie the inward sorowe of their hearts conceiued for their greeuous and notorious sinnes Yea we receiue them whose offences being not openlie knowne doe neuertheles secretlie bewaile their sinnes And therefore that you saie of pampering mans will and pleasure where Gods worde and writing should be onely followed seeke among your owne sect where it may take place For sinnes openlie committed or knowne to be committed we holde that they ought with open confession to be chastised for satisfying the Church that is offended by them As for sinnes committed in secret whereby our neighbour is neither hurt nor offended it is sufficient that they be acknowledged with hartie repentance before god if the offendours conscience be not troubled with further doubtfulnes about them In which case we holde that it is conuenient that he should consult with the learned minister for his further comfort and satisfaction out of the worde of God concerning the remission of his sinnes ALLEN And therefore the manner and order of Penance hath bin diuerse in sundry ages and countries sometimes solemne which could be but once taken in al a mans life somtimes not solemne but yet open and publike which might be iterated as ofien as mans mortal sinnes so required other times priuat onelie betwixt the priest and the penitent which is now vsed and long hath beene in a manner gencrallie thorough the wholl worlde Of all which diuersities we will not now intreat nor for our matter the consideration of them is virie needfull seing that in all sortes and in euerie of the sundry formes of doing penance this is a most firme principle that the penitent had remission of sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes Therefore the substance of the matter being one of the diuersitie of vse and circumstances which maie be according to the time and manners of men altered we need not much to care Baptisme was once vsed with solemnitie at two or three principall feastes of the yeare for the time so required then and the condition of the people yet the same sacrament of Baptisme ministerea'now priuatlie as occasion serueth by the birth of euerie childe is of the same force and grace now that it was then Wherein to reprehend the wisdome of Gods Church that is assuredlie ruled by the spirit of God is ouermuch wantonnes of will and sedition not tolerable FVLKE There hath beene diuerse manners and orders appointed for the punishment of sins and for triall of the offenders true repentance conuersion vnto god but all these prooue not any sacrament of penance The manner which the Popish Church doth vse in the exercise of this pretensed sacrament is partly
you We maruaile not why Christ hath giuen authoritie to man to forgiue sinnes whose ministerie he hath vsed in all times both by preaching his worde and by administring his sacraments to dispense his misteries vnto the rest of his Church vpon earth But that God doth not ordinarilie remit sinnes but by the ministerie of the priest nor any way ells for the moste parte but by externall acts we maruel how you are able to prooue it seeing God often times vseth many other occasions then the priests ministerie to bring men to repentance and without all waies of externall acts or sacrifices to assure men of the remission of their sinnes by faith But this admiration altogether passeth the reach of our capacitie to vnderstand how it may be conuinced That all priestes by warrant hereof may challenge all manner of interest in the gouernement of our soules It were much to challenge any interest in gouernment of our soules which is proper to our Sauiour Christ but to challenge all manner of interest in gouernment it sauoureth to stronglie of Antichristian presumption that any Christian should abide it The Apostles in exercise of their calling acknowledged them selues not onelie to be the seruants of God but also of the Church for we preach not our selues saith the Apostle but Iesus Christ and our selues to be your seruants for Iesus Christ. It is a ministerie and not a Lordeship that we must exercise not as temporall Princes who although they may be saide after a sorte to serue the common wealth yet they are so seruants as they are also Lordes But the ministers of the Church in their spirituall gouernement are seruants and not Lordes as Saint Peter testifieth therefore they cannot iustlie challenge all manner of interest in the gouernement of our soules For if they might we should haue many Lordes of our soules and denie God our onelie lorde our Lorde Iesus Christ our onelie sauiour ALLEN Much more might be said out of diuerse holie fathers much out of the decrees as well of Bishopes as Councells the authoritie wherof no Christian Catholike did euer reiect In Lateran in Florence and in Trent Councells Penance is decreed to be a sacrament and of necessitie to all such as fall into deadelie sinne after Baptisme The minister thereof by their holie determination is a Priest lawfullie ordered the remission of sins is in them all challenged to be his right not onelie by declaration that God hath or will pardon them nor by the preaching of the Gospell nor any other waies newlie deuised by the Deuill to delude Christes ordinance and misconstrue his plaine wordes But properlie is the priest prooued to be the minister vnder God of reconciliation and therefore may by his wordes absolue men in the saide sacrament of their sinnes as in Christs owne steade whose honourable iudgement seat byhis commission and the holie ghosts assistance he doth lawfullie possesse And so surelie doe Gods ministers holde this power and preheminence that no power or dignitie of man could euer be so well warranted and approoued by Gods owne worde and practize of all ages and nations christened as this is All the Princes in earth though they reigne full righteouslie can not yet shew the tenth part of the euidence that Gods priests can doe for their title of remission of sinnes and it booteth not mee in this my base state to admonish them though I hartelie wish they would consider it that the contempt of spirituall iurisdiction and the dignitie of priesthoode salleth at length to the difobedience of all temporal power and wicked contempt of ciuil gouernement also as in these disordered daies we may to our great griefe beholde when vnder pretence of religion and Gods worde whereof they haue no more respect surelie then the Deuil him selfe hath they haue disobeied not onelie Peters keies but also Cesars sworde Neither let any man thinke that where the bands of conscience the awe of gods maiestie the feare of hell and damnation the hope of heauen and saluation is remooued that there can be any ciuil obedience long Feare of man is much flatterie of man is more but bond of conscience passeth them both Thiu therefore haue Gods priests made account of their calling and long practised power of remitting and reteining the peoples offences FVLKE Whatsoeuer you can saie out of any auncient fathers will not prooue your intent of shrift and pardons your sacrament of penance is but a young beginner that can shew no auncienter councells for her authoritie then Lateran Florence and Trent the eldest of which is not much aboue 300 yeares olde and yet in the place you send vs vnto Confession is straightlie commaunded but penance is not decreed to be a sacrament Declaration of the pastour by preaching that God wil pardon al penitent sinners you count to be awaie newlie deuised by the diuil to delude Christes ordinance and misconstrue his plaine wordes as though your deuelishand blasphemous witte and tongue were hable to prooue out of Christes wordes your popish shrifts penance and satisfaction to be of Christes ordinance whereas it hath beene the doctrine and practize of all the Prophetes and Apostles to preach remission of sinnes to all that truelie repented and were turned vnto God and by authoritie of their commission receiued from God to assure all such of perfect forgiuenes of all their sinnes To compare the euidence wherby they holde this authoritie with the right of princes wherby they holde their croune so farre to preferre it is a point of antichristian and anabaptisticall presumption For ciuill Princes haue as cleere euidence in the scripture to auouch al their lawful authority as priestes haue to exercise that whereunto they be called Otherwise the particuler calling of euerie priest must leane vpon aiust title as well as the aduancement of princes into their throne and much more or els they haue not so great euidence as you talke of For a Prince being in the throne by what right soeuer he possesseth it is to be obeied But a minister of the Church except he be lawfullie called is not to be regarded You haue great cause to complaine of these daies that vnder pretense of Gods word and religion temporall and ciuill power is disobeied and contemned where there is no such manifest examples of such disobedience contempt as in your popish Northern rebellion and in an hundreth other vile attemptes to wring the scepter out of the hands of Gods anointed and your most lawful Prince vnder pretense in the Deuils name of religion and the Catholike Church But such religion and such a Church as aloweth in Italian Priest to depose anie Christian Prince from his throne God of his infinite mercie deliuer this Ileland and graunt all true subiectes of the same to yealde their faithfull obebience to their Godlie Prince not onely for feare but alfo for conscience Here it is prooued that b mitting sinnes the duety the right of the Priest
Thus saith he in sense FVLKE This Nicephorus is too late a Greeke writer that we should approoue his iudgement for the necessitie or perpetuall practise of auricular confession Againe there is nothing but a fragment of an Epistle remaining by which we cannot thoroughlie gather what his iudgement was But this is manifest in him that men ought no more to confesse them selues to an vnlearned man then in sicknes to take counsell of one that is ignorant in phisike Againe he saith not as you report that once al men came confessed their sinnes to Bishopes But he gathered vpon the commission graunted to Bishoppes by those wordes which were spoken to Peter whatsoeuer thou shalt binde shal be bound and whatsoeuer thou shalt loose shal be loosed that olim omnes oportehat ad ipsos pontifices accedere suaque illis occulta prodere sic vel reconciliationem vel repudium ferre Ignoro autem quî factum sit cur haec minùs obseruentur quamuis existmem pontifices negocij taedio frequentique 〈◊〉 turbulentia defatigatos id operae ad Monachos transmisisse eos scilicet qui verè probati sint aliisque valeant esse vtiles nihil enim tale inexpertis indoctis permiserunt In times past it behoued all men to come to the bishoppes them selues to vtter their secretes vnto them and so to receiue either reconciliation or refusall But I am ignorant how it is come to passe that these thinges are not obserued although I thinke that the Bishoppes being wearied by the tediousnes of the busines and the often troublesomenes of the multitude haue set ouer that labour to the monkes namelie those that are trulie appooued and are able to be profitable vnto other for to vnexpert and vnlearned men they haue permitted no such thing In this writer there is nothing but his owne collection and coniecture which is not sufficient to 〈◊〉 mens consciences with a necessity of confessing all their secret sinnes to a Bishoppe or Monke and lest of all to an ignorant and vnlearned priest such as are and haue bene the moste rife and readie confessors among the papists ALLEN These therfore and manie other do testifie for their Church in what solemne vse sacramentall confession hath euer beene Wherein we haue the lesse need to stand long seeing the same Historie that our aduersaries doe sometime alledge plainlie reporteth not onelie in the Church of Constantinople but also in the West Churches and namelie at Rome alwaies since Nouatus the Heretikes false opinion touching penance rose a vertuous Priest sadde secret and wise was appointed to heare the sinnes of all men and was called the Pnitentiarie then as he and the like of that office he called yet We call them Confessours and of olde in Greeke they were named Spirituall Masters or Fathers as we now terme them in our Mother tongue Ghostlie Fathers also Quisecundùm vniuscuiusque culpam indicebant mulctans Who saith Sozomenus according to euerie mans fault prescribed due penance Which penance though it were often openlie done by the confessours appointment yet the sinnes were not knowne for which the penance was preseribed For the confession was secret or auricular as we call it now as is plaine by the historie else the Priest of that office should not haue beene charged with secrecie and silence though the confession sometimes was also open where the penitents deuotion or desire so required as it maie be yet For it is no matter for the substance of the sacrament whether it be publike or priuate And it is the condiscending to the peoples weakenesse that that should be so secret generallie which often in olde time hath beene open And yet I think no man was euer compelled by anie precept of the Church to confesse in the publike face of the Church his sinnes that were committed secretlie Though in Leo the greathis daies there was a custome not allowable that men were forced to giue vp a libell openlie of all their sinnes Which rigorous custome the said holie father afterward abrogated Neuerthelesse the penance was of olde often publike the forme whereof appeareth in Saint Ambrose in Tertullian who both haue written seuerall bookes De poenitentia in Saint Augustine in sundrie places and in this present Historie of Sozomenus And long after their daies there were called Poenitentes Penitents which were barred from the holie communion the secrets soueraigne holie of the blessed mysteries of the Masse so long as their prescribed penance indured besides fasting almes and other like penalties inioyed And especially in Lent time there were of these deuout publike penitentes as appeereth by diuerse orders of the seruice in the Church appointed agreeing to them who lightly were separated till the celebrating of the Lords supper passion in the holie daies next before Easter Whereof yet in most Churches there remaineth a small signe by discipline giuen to the people with roddes on the same daies But now these manie yeares the peoples feablenes considered there is no publike penance giuen nor receiued in the Sacrament much lesse open confession made of anie secret crimes the Church being well assured that this auricular confession sullie answereth Christes institution and agreeth also with the often practise of the Primitiue Church herein though the heretikes and some of their faulters as Beatus Rhenanus or who else soeuer wrot the preface that commonlie 〈◊〉 annexed to Tertullian denie the same And truly seeing their wanton pleasure is not to beare secret confession I dare saie they can much lesse awaie with publike penance or confession which is a thousand times more burdenous FVLKE There hath hitherto no ancient writer bin brought to testifie the necessitie of confession of secret sinnes nor that there is anie sacrament whereof such confession should be part The storie before remembred testifieth of the abolishing of such confession in the Church of Constantinople but that there was anie such Priest or confession vsed in the Church of Rome it maketh no mention but onelie sheweth that they which did open penance which was for open offences for which they were excommunicated were enioyned an exercise or triall after the performance whereof they were receiued into the Church againe As you thinke that no man for his sinnes committed secretlie was compelled to make confession in the publike face of the Church so doe I thinke that no man in those auncient and better times was euer compelled to make anie confession open or secret of all his secret faultes committed in thought word and deede The publike penance mentioned in Tertullian Ambrose Augustine was for publike offences The ridiculous discipline giuen with rodds in the popish Church by the verie name therof declareth that it is a mockery of the old discipline no signe of anie sacrament of confession And therfore as yet nothing is brought to prooue auricular confessing of secret sinnes to be a necessary institution of Christ or agreeable with the practise
confession for them that had openlie and notoriouslie fallen in so much that the auncient Church did admit no man but once in his life vnto this kinde of confession and open penance and so the wordes of Tertullian are plaine of this austere worke of publike confession which he calleth exomologesis by the greeke name Haecigitur venena eius prouidens Deus clausalices ignoscentiae ianua intinctionis sera obstructa aliquid adbuc permisit patere Collocauit in vestibulo poenitentiam secundam quae pulsantibus patefaciat sediam semel quiaiam secundó sed amplius nunquam quia proximè frustra Non enim hoc semel satis est God therefore foreseing these poysons of the deuill although the gate of pardon be shut vp and the locke of baptisme be stopped yet hath permitted something to be open He hath placed in the porch or entrie the second repentance which maie open to them that 〈◊〉 but now no more but once because it is now the second time but neuer hereafter for the next time is in vaine For is not this once enough Habes quodiam non merebaris amisisti enim quod acceperas Thou hast now that thou didst not deserue for thou hast lost that which thou hadst receiued These wordes doe euidentlie declare that this doctour speaketh not of the popish sacrament of penance nor of popish confession which is iterated often times but of a rigorous kinde of discipline vsed in the primitiue Church if he doe not incline to the heresie of Montanus as in other places But it appeareth by Augustine that this solemne kinde of penance before the Church was admitted euen of the Catholike Church but as for them that had greeuousely fallen in all their life although they did not exclude offenders from repentance before God and remission of sinnes so often as they truelie repented ALLEN But of all other Origen is moste plaine In one place he saith thus Qui non priùs animae suae vitia peccatorum cognoueritmala proprij oris confessione prodiderit purgari atque absolui non poterit He that knoweth not perfectlie the sinnes of his owne soule and the naughtines of his offences that he may vtter them by the confession of his owne mouth he can not be clensed nor absolued of his sinne And in an other place thus there is one painefull waie of remission of sinnes Cùm lauat peccator lachrymis stratum suum non erubescit sacerdoti Domini indicare quaerere medecinam sicut scriptum est Iniquitaiem means pronunciabo When the sinner watereth his coutch with teares and is not ashamed to vtter al his sinnes to the Priest of God and to seeke remedie as it is written I will confesse mine iniquitie FVLKE We had need of a plainer testimonie then we haue hard anie yet and therefore let vs see now toward the ende what Origen hath for the necessitie of popish shrift to a Priest The first place is Li peri archon 3. Cap. 1. which I wil rehearse somewhat more at large that the readers maie iudge how plaine it is for the necessitie of auricular confession His purpose is to declare how men are saide to be forsaken of God Hi verò qui nondum se tanta constantia neque tanto affectu offerunt Deo neque parati sunt accedentes adseruitutem Dei praeparare animus suos ad tentationem derelinqui dicuntur à Deo id est non erudiri pro eo quod ad erudiendum parati non sunt in posterum sine dubio tempus eorum dispensatione vel curatione dilata qui vtique quid à Deo consequentur ignorant nisi priùs ad beneficia consequenda per desiderium venerint quod it a demum fiet si quis ante seipsum cognoscat sentiat quid sibi desit quid sibi deest à quo quaerere vel debeat vel possit intelligat Qui enim non intellexerit prius infirmitatem vel aegritudinem suam medicum quaerere nescit vel certè cùm receperit sanitatem non egerit gratias medico quoniam non priùs periculum sui languoris cognouit It a si qui non priùs animae suae vitia peccatorum suoruns cognouerit mala ac proprij oris confessione prodiderit purgari is absoluique non paterit ne ignoret sibi per gratiam concessum fuisse quod possidet diuinam liberalitatem proprium bonum putet quae ret sine dubio arrogantiam generes elationem denuo ei causa sit ruinae Quodetiam de Diabolo sentiendum est qui primitus honores suos proprios non à Deo datos esse credidit quos habebat tunc cùm immaculatus erat impleta est in eo illa sententia quae dicit quòd omnis qui se exaltat humiliabitur But they which do not yet offèr themselues to God with so great constancie nor with so great affection neither are readie when they come to the seruice of God to prepare themselues vnto temptation are saide to be forsaken of God that is not to be taught because they are not prepared to be taught the disposing or healing of them without doubt being deferred vnto the time to come who trulie knowe not what they shall obteine of God except they come first by desire vnto the obteining of benefits Which thing at the length shall be brought to passe if a man know himselfe first and feele what is wanting to him and vnderstande of whome he ought or maie seeke for that which is wanting vnto him For he that shall not first vnderstand his owne infirmity or sicknes cannot seeke the Phisitian so if there be anie also which shall not first knowe the vices of his soule and the euills of his sinnes and bewraie them by the confession of his owne mouth he cannot be purged and absolued least he should be ignorant that thing to be graunted to him by grace which he possesseth and thinketh the liberalitie of God to be his owne goodnes which thing without doubt maie gender arrogancie and pride and maie againe be cause to him of falling Which thing also we muste thinke of the deuill which at the first did beleeue that his honours which he had when he was vndefiled were his owne and not giuen by God and that sentence was fulfilled in him which saith euerie one that exalteth himselfe shal be be brought lowe What reasonable man out of this discourse woulde gather the necessitie of shrift to a priest where it is certaine the writer speaketh of the acknowledgeing of our sinnes before God without which we can obteine no pardon or remission of them at his handes and not of confessing them to a Priest as he woulde haue the ignorant reader to surmise But let vs examine the second place and see if that be not more plaine for the necessitie of auricular confession Origen in that place in Leuit. Hom. 2. allegorizeth vpon the seauen kindes of
sacrifices prescribed by the Lord for remission of sinnes saieth there are seauen kindes of remission of sinnes in the gospell namelie 1. In baptisme 2. In martyrdome 3. In almes giuing 4. Inforgiuing to other men 5. In conuerting a sinner 6. In abundance of charitie the seauenth he expresseth in these wordes which you rehearse verie vnperfectlie and translate falselie Est adhuc septima licet dura laboriosa per poanitentiam remissio peccatorum cùm lauat peccator in lachrimis stratum suum fiunt ei lachrimae suae panes die ac nocte cùm nou erubescit sacerdoti domini indicare peccatum suum quaerere medecinam secundùm cum qui ait dixi pronunciabo aduersum me iniustitiam meam domino turemisisti impietatem cordis mei In quo impletur illud quod Apostolus dicit Si quis autem infirmatur vocet presbyteros Ecclesiae imponant ei manus vngenteseum oleo in nomine domini oratio fidei saluabit infirmum si in peccatis fuerit remittentur ei There is yet a seauenth kinde of remission of sinnes though hard and painefull by repentance when the sinner washeth his bed with teares and his teares are made to him his foode daie and night and when he is not ashamed to declare his sinne to the priest of the Lorde and to seeke medecine according to him which saith I haue saide I will pronounce against my selfe mine owne vnrighteousnes vnto the Lorde and thou hast remitted the vngodlines of my heart wherein that also is fulfilled which the Apostle saith if anie man be sick let him call the elders of the Church and let them laie their handes vpon him annointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord and the praier of faith shall saue the sicke person and if he haue bene in sins theyshal be remitted to him These are the words of Origen but you in your latine after indicare leaue out pee catum suum and translate it and is not ashamed to vtter all his sinnes to make the place seeme more pregnant for auricular confession I passe ouer that you alter the wordes folowing which are secundùm cum qui ait initio sicut scriptum est by which it appareth that you borowed this place out of some other mans allegation or note-booke negligentlie gathered and doe not cite it of your owne reading But to the matter I answere that Origen is not plaine for anie necessitie of shrifte to obteine remission of sinnes when he sheweth fiue other meanes to obtaine it after baptisme beside this Secondlie it is euident that he speaketh of open confession to be made in the exercise of publique repentance which is not necessarie for all men For otherwise there is no remission of sinnes after baptisme but vnto them that be penitent before God althouh they suffer martirdome giue almes forgiue other men conuert sinnes abound in charitie if they be not sory and repent for their owne sinnes they shall not obtaine forgiuenes at the hands of God He speaketh therefore of open repentance where there is open confession which also maie be gathered by his allegation of the texte of Saint Iames where not one priest for auricular confession but the Elders of the Church are called for The priest of the Lord also that he nameth by the text following of Dauides confession before God maie be vnderstood of Christ of whome the Leuiticall Priest to whome Origen alludeth was a figure as I haue declared before so that here is no plaine testimony nor any certeine warrant for the necessitie of eare confession For that confession maie be made for quieting of a mans conscience we denie not but that it is necessarie to be made by all men of all their mortall sinnes and that without such confession there can be no remission of sinnes that I saie we vtterlie and alwaies denie ALLEN S. Dionise also an Apostolike man doth inuinciblie prooue vnto vs that confession to a priest and the sacrament of pennance was in vse in his daies that is to saie in the Apostles time for he was S. Paules scholler He checketh verie earnestly one Demophilus a naughty Monke that you maie see Monkes be olde when there was an euill one in S. Dionise daies and yet there was an euill Apostle before there was an euill Monke that you maie see both orders be auncient though be they neuer so holie they cannot be alwaies void of euill But this Demophilus I saie bare a great rebuke of Dyonisius that he vsurped once a Priestes place and function and that on a time he thrust backe from the Priest and rebuked contemptuouslie a poore penitent that came to confession and called the Prieste sitting on confession a wretch and a miser that he durst take vpon him to make a sinner a iust man Which wordes were verie fitte for Luthers mouth an other religious man of like humour and honestie So soone was confession hated of the wicked and so speedilie was it desended of the faithfull as of Saint Dionise who here calleth the orders diuine actes of penance the decrees and institutions of God FVLKE Indeed we reade that one Dionysius Areopagita was conuerted by Saint Paul but that the author of these bookes which goe vnder that name was an Apostolike man we doe vtterlie denie For Eusebius S. Hierome Gennadius woulde not haue omitted the mention of such a writer and such bookes being so diligent sertchers of auncient monuments of the Church as they were if anie such had bene heard of in their times by the space of fiue or sixe hundreth yeares after Christ. But concerning the matter this Dyonise whosoeuer he be saieth nothing for the necessitie of auricular confession which is the matter in question although he rebuke Demophilus for abusing a poore penitent presuming to raile vpon the Priest and to commaund him to auoide Neither is there anie mention that the Priest did sit vpon confession or that the penitent came in popish manner to shriue himselfe but to seeke medecine for his sinnes perhaps to offer himselfe to open penance for some hainous transgression openlie knowne as it shoulde seeme by the wordes of Demophilus reported by Dyonisius But thou as thine owne betters declare didst thrust awaie with thy heeles an vngodlie and sinnefull man as thou saiest euen when he was fallen downe before the priest Thou being present against thy selfe then did he intreate and confesse that he was come for the healing of his diseases But thou wast not terrified but increasing in boldnes didst raile vpon the good priest that he was a wretch in iustifying a penitent and an vngodlie person and at length saidest vnto him get the out c. These words prooue not although they were the wordes of Dyonisius the Areopagite himselfe that it is necessarie that euerie man is bound to confesse euen his secret sinnes to a Priest And as for the sacrament of penance which you say is inuinciblie
profitable other whiles to be deceites but yet inuented for holie purposes now by avouching they could not stand with Gods iustice if they shoulde remitte anie part of the appointed paine for sinnes and else when that there was no paine for remitted sinnes at all whereupon the indulgences should not be needfull but vaine and friuolous with such other inconstant stammering as lightlie is common to them that seeke to vp hold falshood against their owne skill and consciences But his followers as well of the Protestants as Zuinglians and Caluinistes to make the waie of wickednes more easie and plaine haue boldlie denied all penance and temporall paine for sinne remitted whether it be by Christs or the Churches enioyning haue taken awaie Purgatorie haue bereued Priesthood of all power and the Church of all her treasure of Christes copious and abundant redemption Whereupon I cannot otherwise iudge but that doctrine which else can not be refelled but by the waste of so manie vndoubted articles should stande exceeding fast and be grounded moste surelie vpon all these foresaide truthes without the destruction whereof it can not be of anie force ouerturned FVLKE As no man would thinke any such matter if you had not put it in their heades so no wise men can thinke otherwise of Pardons then he did before you tooke in hande their defence sauing that all reasonable men may thinke them so much the worsse because you are able to defend them no better And if all the principles of popery as you saie be contained in the matter of pardons as in a summe or abridgment the children of God maie behold the prouidence of god more clearelie in setting Luther first against them at such time as he knewe no such matter neither had anie purpose but to disswade the moste grosse abuses and palpable impostures which were that time mantained about them alowing the pardons still as good and lawful But for the mantainers of this conclusion you say he and his haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne c. Naie they haue established and restored the true vse of repentance and shewed that the death of Christ is the onelie satisfaction for sinnes the discipline of the Church from a batbarous antichristian tyrannie they haue reduced within the limmites of the scriptures and the practize of the primatiue and pureit age of the Church the chastising that God vseth for correction of his children they haue taught out of the scriptures how it is to be taken patientlie as an admonition for amendement not an amends for our misdoing which sauoreth as much of pride as their doctrine doth of humility The secrets of the next world not reueiled in the scriptures they leaue vntil the time of the general reuelation of al secrets and therfore they presume not to allow purgatorie paines for the clensing of those sinnes which the scripture teacheth to be purged by the bloode of Christ in whome all our sinnes are thorowlie punished to the full satisfaction of the iustice and wisedome of God They haue left to the saints al their merits which is nothing els but the grace of God sufficient for their saluation not placing the workes of saints in the place of Christes passion which is onelie of it selfe soueraigne and satisfactorie for all men The mysticall bodie of Christ and the holie cōmunion of saints they beleeue to receiue all vertue and power of life from Christ the head and euery member to exercise that office which by his grace is assigned vnto it therefore they haue done no iniurie to Christ his Church his saints sacraments or his holy Religion but their dutie in purging the doctrine ofChrist his Church his saints sacraments and Religion from error falsehood heresie and blasphemie You tell the reader that you doe not riot in wordes to ouerrunne your aduersarie but if he be wise he will remēber that a crafty orator doth sonest deceiue when he pretendeth moste plainenes What Luther thought and taught at the first of pardons his writings are extant in print to declare in which he confesseth that he did fight in the darke yet it pleased God by the importunitie of his aduersaries to sturre him vp to search the trueth out of the holie scriptures Neither hath Zuinglius or Caluine or anie of the Protestants taught otherwise of repentance satisfaction power of priesthood or the tresure of the Church then Luther did after God had reueiled the trueth vnto him and he openlie preached the same Seeing therefore the matter of pardons cannot stand but vpon the blasphemous heresies which the popish antichristian Church doth teach against the glorie of the onelie redemption of Iesus Christ our onelie and whole sauiour and reedemer it must needs be one of those pestilent poisons which Sathan after his loosing out of the bottomeles pit hath powred forth into the world the defacing of the glorie of Christ and the destruction of manie ignorant soules ALLEN Therefore least any man by making smaller accompt of so litle a braunch of the Churches faith then he should do fall further vnto the mistrusting of other many of knowen importance I thought it good to debate the question of Indulgences which be now commonly called the Popes Pardons though not onely he but also other Prelates of Christendome haue their seuerall right eche one according to the measure of the Churches graunt and his iurisdiction therein In which matter because most men of smaler trauail haue erred rather by misconstruing the case mistaking the state of the cause then for any lacke of sufficient proofe of the matter after it were wel vnderstanded I will studie first clearly to open the meaning of that whereon we stande and then to go through the whole question with as much light and breuitie as I can tempering my selfe as much as I maie from all such 〈◊〉 as the depth of so grounded a conclusion and the learned disputation of Schoolmen might driue me vnto Wherein I am content rather to followe the desire and contentation of the reader then to satisfie my owne appetite which I feele in my selfe to be somewhat more greedie of matter sometimes then the common people whome I studie moste to helpe can well beare and yet if they thinke it anie vantage to knowe trueth and the necessarie Doctrine of their faith they must learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause and further I shall not charge them FVLKE You come to late after the vanitie treacherie and blasphemie of pardons hath beene so long set abroad and knowen to the world and bringing no better stuffe then you do to suppose that you shal be able to restore pardons into the auncient credit they had within these foure score yeares euen with the simplest papist in Europe You would make the matter more plausible by communicating the right of pardons to all prelates of christendome as wel as to the Pope whereas indeed your popish Church keeping no proportion aloweth none
giuing pardons I will recite the saying of S. Clement him selfe in time the Apostles equall expert in their regement and priuie to al their doings He liuelie expresseth the dignity of the chiefe pastours power of their gouernment vnto which he applieth the power of binding and loosing in such sort as we haue said But heare his owne wordes as Carolus Bouius hath translatedthë O Episcope stude munditie operum excellere cognoscens locum tuum ac dignitatem tanquam locum Dei obtinens eò quod praees omnib Dominis Sacerdotib Regib Principih patrib filiis magistris atque subditis simul omnib sicque in Ecclesia sede cùm sermomen facies vt potestatem habens iudicandi eos qui peccauerunt quoniam vobis Episcopis dictum est quodcunque ligaueritis super terram erit ligatum in coelo quodcunque solueritis super terram erit solutum in coelo Iudica igitur o Episcope cum potestate tanquam Deus sed poenitentes recipe In English O thou that art a Bishop studie and endeuoure to excell other in the beutie of good works in respect of thy place dignitie consider thou sittest in Gods owne roome being promoted aboue al Lords Priestes Kinges Princes Parentes children Masters seruants euerie one Therfore so sit in the Church when thou doest speake as one that hath power to iudge al those that haue sinned For to you Bishops it was said whatsoeuer you binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer you shall loose in earth it shal be loosed in heauen Iudge then O Bishop with power and maiestie as God but yet haue mercie on the penitent Thus saith S. Clement By whose wordes you may preceiue Gods right to be in a manner conferred vpon his ministers by the tearmes of binding losing not onlie giuen for the remitting or retaining of sins in the sacrament of penance but also for the correcting or giuing pardon by supreame iurisdiction out of the said sacrament FVLKE And now to make vp a number and a shew of antiquity S Clements constitution is alledged which is neither authenticall nor any thing to the purpose in controuersie if it were as auntient as he whose name it beareth For watsoeuer is said in this whole clause if it be rightly vnderstood is true of the dignitie of Bishops in their spirituall authoritie and power of preaching the worde and exercising of discipline But for that blasphe mous conclusion that you draw out of it Gods right to be in a manner conferred vpon his ministers by the tearmes of binding and loosing with the rest that followeth can neuer be gathered of these premises Gods right remaineth whole and absolute vnto him selfe for any power of binding or losing that he hath committed to his seruantes As for the sacrament of penance and giuing pardon by supreame iurisdiction out of the said sacrament how can they be deduced out of the wordes of this pretended Clemens ALLEN Now then let Caluine or his auncient Luther come sorth and denie all spirituall iurisdiction of holie Bishops touching temporall punishment or release of paines appointed for sinnelet them writh the plaine place both of binding and loosing to the preaching of the ghospel as their fashion is rather thē they would graunt this soueraignty to the Church of Christ let them saie that Christ when he whipped out the vnlawfull occupiers of marchandies in the temple did nothing else but preach the Gospell let them hold that this was a sermon and not an act of iurisdiction when he said to diuers thy sins be forgiuen thee or when he with power and terror gaue to Iudas the soppe by which it is thought that he excommunicated him and gaue him vp whollie to the Deuill and seperated him from the companie of the Apostles and from his Church For then the Deuill entred into him and he went out as the gospell saieth But saie Master Luther was this the power of preaching only or an exercise of moste high iurisdiction giuen him of his father euerlasting as he was he head of the Church No no vaine fellowes this is no preaching which you would haue onelie to be the Churches propertie that you might being void of all other authoritie in Gods Church compare with his Apostles in your prating because your glorie amongst the people standeth on your glafe tongues Cores had a ticling tongue and Moses tongue was tied yet God gaue sentence on his seruants side and reuenged the disobedience of the contrarie No no I tellyou if all the Bishoppes and Priestes of the Christian world were as rude as simple in their preaching as you thinke your selues eloquent yet their onelie iurisdiction and Maiestie of their power assisted by Christ perpetuallie by whome it was giuen them shall beare you downe and your vaine name of preaching the word And God be thanked beside the right of the cause there be in the Churchmany that are honoured with the gift of true preaching to whome God giucth the worde in deed with great and vnspeakeable force and encrease of the truth and daily decaie of your vaine shade of preaching His name be blessed for euer that hath giuen such a guard to his Church that hell gates nor the eloquence neither of man not Angell shall preuaile against her FVLXE Now then let Allen or al his auncients punies the papists in Rome or Rhemes shew out of either Caluines or Luthers writings anie place where they or either of them denied all power of binding and loosing other then by preaching of the gospell where they affirmed that excommunication and receiuing againe into the Church was nothing but preaching of the gospell If Allen be not able to prooue with all his complices that Caluine and Luther denied the discipline of the Church or haue not established the same in the Churches by them reformed then is he an impudent slaunderer and detestable deceiuer to beare simple men in hand that they acknowledge not discipline either in binding or in releasing of open offendours but preaching of the gospel His further storming and malitious rayling as also his vaine bragging and threatening I passe ouer as vnworthie of anie other answere then silence as bewraying sufficientlie the sincerity wisdome honesty of the author Neither wil I disrusse that waighty argument of giuing the soppe to Iudas whereby the prooueth the exercise of Christes iurisdiction as head of the Church Wise men may easely see what arguments he hath to prooue things in question when he hath no better demonstration of a matter out of all controuersie The Apostles bishops haue euer besides the preaching of the Gospel punished mens sinens and practized iudgement vpon mens soules both in binding loosing THE 5. CHAP. ALLEN CHrist then hauing not only the preaching of the Gospel to punish pardon by but iurisdiction also to giue discipline and to release the same in that he was made the supreame gouernour of al Christian people did
not to recompence Gods iustice but to make satisfaction to the Church which is not to graunt remission in those cases but vpon good hope of the parties true conuersion and inwarde and vnfained repentance But as Augustine speaketh here of open satisfaction not to Gods iustice but to the Churches iudgement so you haue his authority or as good for secret satisfactiō which is now more vsed lest any man should feare that were not sufficiēt to satisfy for the remnant of the debt due for mortall sinnes forgiuen I know not whether to impute it to ignorance or impudencie but most intollerable presumption it is to make that author whatsoeuer he was a faulter of your popish secret satis faction now vsed to be prescribed in your secret shrifts For this writer as I haue before declared aloweth no secret satisfaction for the loosing of mortal crimes but vpon a verie hard condition namely sed mutato priùs saeculari habitu c. but so that the secular habit be first changed and the studie of religion be confessed by correction of life and continuall and perpetuall sorow thorough the mercie of God but so onelie that he doe contrarie things to them for which he repenteth euery Sundaie humby and submmissiuelie vnto his death he receiue the Eucharist c. This is not to say pater noster in rememberance of the fiue wounds or to giue fiue pence grotes or shillings to fiue poore men or to fast fiue frydaies or such single satisfaction as your Popish priests in shirst doe enioyne Touching the worde satisfaction vsed by this Monkish Augustine it is neuer vsed by the right autentike Austine to graunt that the sufferings or doeings of man can satisfy the iustice of god who is satisfied by Christs obedience onelie and by none other meane the vertue of whose satisfaction is communicated vnto vs by the holie Ghost whereof we are assured by faith onelie but not by a solitarie faith as this heretike doth slaunder vs but by a faith accompanied fruiteful huelie effectuall and workeing by loue as the holie scripture teacheth vs whatsoeuer these blasphemous dogs barke against it ALLEN Now to this ende haue we saied al this that the faithful may vnderstand perfectlie what the Pope may by right remit thorugh his Pardon and Indulgence For looke what the officers of Gods Church may binde that without all doubt may they vpon good consideration release againe Therefore if they may enioyne penance for yeares and daies both openlie out of the sacrament and also in priuate satisfaction after Confession then may they release certaine daies and yeares of the same penance which was prescribed before For loosing and binding pertaine by reason law Christs owne graunt as to one act of iurisdiction that the one beeing lawfull the other must needes so be also If the Church be of right power and authoritie to prescribe penance of seuen yeares she hath the like right to remit vpon iust respect either all those yeares or some part of the same especiallie hauing meanes otherwise to supplie the lacke of fatisfaction of Gods iustice in the partie penitent FVLKE There is no faithfull man can perceiue by any thing that you haue saide what right the Pope hath to remit by his pardon and indulgence that which is enioyned by an other It is out of doubt that the officers of the Church vpon good consideration may release that which they binde except for in emissibie sins they binde with insoluble bandes And therefore they may release daies or yeares appointed for triall of the repentance if the Church can be satisfied in shorter time But for priuate satisfaction of Gods iustice or any satisfaction of his iustice they can neither binde nor loose enioyne nor release Therefore if the Church be of power to enioyne and prescribe penance for seauen yeares shee is of power also to release seuen yeares or part of the same but shee hath no meanes to supplie the satisfaction of Gods iustice which is fullie satisfied in Christ whose satisfaction is not to be disposed according to the iudgement of men but is applied to all the elect of God according to his will and pleasure Now whereas you speake of seauen yeares penance and the streightest Canons of Ancyre prescribe but 25. yeares for the greatest crime whereto serue so many thousand yeares of Pardon If therefore all that you haue saide tende to this ende that men may vnderstand that the Pope hath power to release times of penance enioyned seeing no councell euer enioyned a thousand yeares penance nor any penance beyonde the time of a mans life in so much that the Councell of Nice decreed that they which departe out of the world should be receiued into the communion although their time were not expired why doth the Pope take vpon him to graunt an hundred thousand yeares of pardon at a clap as I haue shewed before out of a pardon imprinted and confirmed by Leo 10 But if the Pope haue authoritie to graunt pardon for so many thousand yeares of penance enioyned by the right of binding and loosing which you saie by reason law and graunt of Christ pertaine to one act of iurisdiction that the one beeing lawfull the other must needs be so also Then may euerie priest enioyne an hundred 50. 40. 10. or 7. thousand yeares of penance to them that come to shrift as wel as the Pope giue pardon for so many thousand yeares for hundreds be but beggerly things to talke of where thousand be so rife If you answere that the Pope doth pardon not onelie yeares of penance enioyned but also of yeares due to be enioyned the difficultie is nothing auoided for if thousands of yeares be due the priest may enioyne thousands of yeares But then he shal exceede al the Canons penitential that euer were made in any councel and yet be forced to graunt pardon at the houre of death ALLEN And therefore I ioyne in argument and open reason with our aduersaries thus To giue pardon in moste common and Catholike sense of that worde is to release some part or all the enioyned penance for sinnes remitted But the Pope because he is the principall gouernour of Gods Church may release any penance enioyned vpon iust considerations Ergo the Pope may lawfullie giue Pardons The Minor wherein the aduersaries may perchance giue backe I prooue thus That which was bound by the Churches or Popes authoritie may be lawfullie loosed by the same authoritie againe because Christ himselfe ioyned in his graunt both these acts togetber and they are prooued to be proper to one iurisdiction But the Church by the Decrees of Bishops and Councells hath appointed such penance and so many yeares of correction for sundrie faults therefore the same Bishops or such as be of the like authoritie when they see occasion may remit the penance of the saied yeares or some part of it by limitation of daies or seasons as the state of the penitent requireth or the
time it selfe doth mooue them FVLKE These arguments I like well for they bewraie your infirmitie moste of al. And now for answere I saie that your Maior is false as weil as your Minor for the common Popish sense of pardons is as the wordes of them pretend that is to giue pardon not onelie of penance enioyned but also of sinnes Againe the gouernours of the Church as your Maior should haue beene framed but that you dare not come within the compasse of a lawfull syllogisme haue no power either to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted or to remit penance enioyned for sins remitted but of time of penance enioyned for satisfaction of the Church as we heard latelie out of Saint Augustine when the Church may be satisfied in shorter time Your Minor which you knew would not be admitted you take vpon you to prooue but you come nothing neere the matter for this is the point of your Minor which we denie that the Pope is the principall gouernour of Gods Church yea that he is any gouernour of Gods Church But if he were a Bishop of Rome as many were whose successour he claimeth to be he might be allowed in his Church of Rome to binde and loose enioyne and remit so farre as Christian discipline will beare but not to claime tiranie ouer all Churches as he doth Now you in your mishapen syllogisme in which you fumble diuerse matters together to deceiue the ignorant prooue that the Church and gouernours thereof haue power to release that which they haue power to enioyne which is not the matter in controuersie But whether they haue power to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted to answere Gods iustice or whether the Pope be a lawfull gouernour of the Church these and such like be matters of controuersie which you are neuer able to conclude in any lawfull and true syllogisme ALLEN And this argument shal be vnmooueable except they reiect with the Popes Pardons all manner of discipline as well of excommunication as other lesser satisfactions whereof we haue allreadie spoken as in deede to mainteine their falsehoode they must needes doe as also they shall be enforced to reprooue both the Councell of Nice all the holie Fathers and the generall practize of the Church and with them the expresse scriptures in which the worthie fruites of penance sharpe discipline iudging our selues obedience to our Prelates binding reteining of sinnes excommunicating and deliuering vp to Sathan be so often condemned It must needes be a miserabe doctrine of these Protestants which cannot be vpholden but by so shamefull shiftes and when we driue them into such straites in a matter where they thinke most may be saied for themselues and lest for our defence where shall they stand in our plaine causes in which almost our aduersaries confesse vs to haue the vantage of antiquitie and the preheminence of all 〈◊〉 Councells in the world But surelie I thinke falsehood hath so litle holde in all matters that it standeth onelie vpright whiles the contrarie is not seene or not vnderstanded which shee seeketh euer by all meanes shee may to couer and keepe close For the night shee loueth and in darkenes shee delighteth Doe but open the true sense of anie article by them impugned and it is more then halfe prooued and the enemies without argument vpon the sight of trueth in a manner discomfited So it fareth with them in our present cause which they haue long toyled and troubled in the mist of their phantasies and vpon false interpretation discharged amongst the simple sorte that that thing which in this sense as Gods Church that hath the ruling of the matter taketh it is so sure and so cleare in it selfe that I thinke they shall neuer be hable with honestie to speake against in any one parcell thereof FVLKE A boy that hath studied Logicke halfe a yeare may be ashamed to make such syllogismes and yet you are not ashamed to affirme before the worlde that this argument is vnmooueable except we reiect with the Popes pardons all manner of discipline And though it be manifest vnto the worlde that we practize all Godlie discipline which is according to the scriptures in requiring the worthie fruites of repentance iudgeing of our selues obedience to Christian Prelates practizing also the binding and reteining of sinnes excommunication and deliuering vp to Satan giuing that reuerence we ought to the holie Councell of Nice to all holie fathers and to the generall practize of the Church yet you blush not to write that we shall be enforced to reprooue all these It is not these beggerlie arguments M. Allen that shall enforce vs to these absurdities If you haue any better stuffe in store for Pardons bring it out for shame or ells talke no more of enforcement except it be in shrift where no man can controll you The rest to the ende of this Chapter conteining nothing but generall rayling and arrogant boasting after your accustomed manner I passe ouer as needelesse to be answered 〈◊〉 wise then it doth discouer it selfe in any wise mans iudgement That there be diuerse waies of temporall punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euery of which waies may be in some cases released in parte or in wholl by the Pardons of Popes and Bishops THE SIXT CHAP. ALLEN ANd yet to giue more light to the matter and the greater ouerthrow to falsehood let vs driue the cause forward and weigh with our selues the wholl state of things in this order First that there be three waies of punishment of mans sinnes after they be released in the sacrament of Penance besides the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe withall and besides the punishment appointed for offences by the ciuill or temporall lawes whereof I now speake not the first the easiest is that penāce which is in secret confessiō inioyned by our Confessor which is lightlie as these times be much lesse then the nature of the offence for which it was prescribed requireth Yet because it is taken obedientlie and by our iudges prescription and in a sacrament in which God alwaies worketh much more grace then he doth by the selfe same things without the sacrament and because the penitent is readie to take more if more had beene prescribed in all these respects it standeth often if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes for which it was inioyned for a ful satisfaction before god when it is accomplished FVLKE In the first Chapter of this booke you charged the reader to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of this cause but the methode you follow is such as becommeth your cause namelie the methode of deceitfulnes which is that you call the compasse of your cause For true methode requireth to proceede from things more better knowne to things lesse knowne as it were to build vpon a good foundation but your manner is to assume that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie and thereupon to builde as it were vpon an imaginarie
punishment Secondlie you assure vs If the pardon be large it taketh awaie the whole paine then it followeth that if God punish a man for his sinnes with the goute or anie other bodelie sicknes a large pardon would take awaie the whole paine thereof Surelie if you would become suter to his holines for a large pardō that would take awaie the whole paine of bodelie sicknes you might doe an acceptable deede and be well paied for your paines But if the Popes pardon be not able to take awaie the paine of one scabbe or flebiting you wil hardlie perswade vs that it can take awaie all the paine of purgatorie if it were prooued that anie such paine or place were after this life But if the pardon saie you determine the number of daies or yeares then it releaseth but part of the penāce onlie as you bring exampls of 20. daies pardon but if the pardon determine the number of yeares to an hundred thousand yeares then this explication is insufficient yet you haue an other quirke to helpe it afterward by stretching it into purgatorie your imaginarie prison But the auncient canons neuer inioyned so manie yeares penance nor neuer did anie Catholike Bithoppe graunt pardon of so manie yeares Saint Cyprian as we heard before with his colleagues determined to release some parte of the appointed time vpon good hope of the amendement of the parties and great signes shewed of their heartie repentance and for daunger of present persecution at hand Saint Paull receiued the incestuous person vnto the fellowship of the Church vpon his repentance The Councel of Nice also willed the Bishops in seeing the fruits of repentance ripebefore the time assigned by the Canons to deale more gently with the lapsed persons But all these haue no resemblance with the Antichristian pardons of the Pope which are not graunted vpon like cause nor by a person of like authoritie nor to persons of like qualites nor to the like end nor onelie of penance enioyned but of such as no man would enioyne beside remission à culpa pana or if not for all sinnes yet for some third or seauenth parteof sinnes or else full remission of all sinnes beside 8000. yeares and 8000. Lentes as in the pardon of Clement the sixt confirmed by Leo the tenth it is to be seene ALLEN Whereby we see this pardoning of enioyned penance is an auncient vsage and counted moste holie of all the Church whereof we make this assured ground and foundation of our Pardons and for the trueth of them we make this argument Saint Paul did remit enioyned penance in Christs person Saint Cyprian and al the Bishops of Affrike did remit penance enioyned Nicē Councel giueth licence to bishops to remit penance prescribed by the law Therefore the Pope by their example as in the person of Christ may remit enioyned penance there fore may lawfuilie giue a Pardon The paine prescribed by the law he may release because he is the principal executer of the law the penance appointed by the inferiour priest in confession he may likewise remit because that which is prescribed by the inferiour may by good reason be vpon considerations altered by the superiour especiallie where the Magistrate hath good meanes to prouide that neither the common wealth suffer damage thereby nor the partiē to whome it doth perteine to be loosed or bounde in penance receiue any losse thereby By like authoritie also doth a Pardon change sometimes a sharper longer paine enioyned into some more gentle penance and more fit and needeful workes for the time and state then beeing as his power that is the chiefe gouernour may be exceeding benefi ciall to the worlde in such cases which euer ought to be practized for edifying neuer for destruction For it is to be considered that the high Pastour vsualite graunieth no release of the debt of good workes or the bond of deserued punishment but by prescription of some other holie worke to be accomplished before the partie obteine the benefit of his remission 〈◊〉 when a penitent hath enioyned him to punish his bodie by continual fasting or long peregrination or other exceeding much temporall pain according to the grieuousnes of his desertes the freedome of a Pardon of tentimes turneth the saide due paines enioyned into some easier worke of Christian charitie yet beeing much more to the glory of god beneficial to the Church as the time standeth then the other could be As when the Turke or other enemies of Christianitie doe inuade any Christian kingdome it is more beneficiall to put to our helping hand in with standing his crueltie either by resisting him in our owne person or contributing anie peece of our goods towardes the same then anie priuate Penance that maie concerne our persons Therefore the gouernours of the Church often to mooue the people to such necessarie denotion giueth them a release of all paine due for their sinnes or at least of the bonde of their enioyned penance onelie vpon respect of some smal furtherance in such a good and Godlie purpose FVLKE We acknowledge that pardoning of ecclesiastical pu nishment commonly called penance is very auncient And being graunted by them that had authoritie vpon good consideration is very necessary But it is very yong and new that the Pope should take vpon him though he proceeded no further then pardon of penance enioy nedto release the penance enioyned by the gouernours of other Churches to persons whose repentance he knoweth not for other causes then of auncient were allowed and especiallie for money But now vpon this auncient and accustomed practize of Gods Church let vs see what Antichrist can claime and that is set forth in an assured argument Saint Paull did remit S. Cyprian with the Bishops of Afrike and the Nicene councell doth allow remitting of penance prescribed therefore the Pope by their example maie remit enioyned penance and lawfullie giue a pardon Call you this an assured argument for pardons where there wanteth one leg and that the better leg of the argument to stand vpon Aristotle doth well admonish that in an Enthimeme lightlie the weaker part is hidden and not expressed For this argument euerie man maie lawfullie denie except you adde the Maior that whatsoeuer Saint Paull Saint Cyprian with his fellowes and the Nicene coun cell lawfullie did and allowed the Pope doing as they did maie lawfullie do But then this Maior will be denied and so the conclusion will not holde For the Pope is neither anie gouernour nor yet any member of the Church of Christ. But if he were a lawfull Bishop he might do within his owne charge as Saint Paul Saint Cyprian and the rest with the Nicen councell did and allowed to be done And yet if he were allowed to be a Bishop and would graunt such pardons as he doth to men of other Churches and vpon such occasions as he doth this argument would not defend him because the Minor would not follow
Purgatory could not at al belong to the iurisdiction of the Church nor 〈◊〉 person therein yet in the life of the party some peece of the debt thereof oral may be released afore hand whiles the partie is in the power of the Church and her discipline ad so it must needs be at euerie time that the Church pardoneth the partie of all satisfaction or anic portion there of recompensing the same by application of Christes satisfaction and his saints For the bond of Purgatory riseth as I haue said vpon some satisfaction and penance to be fulfilled or done in this life the which 〈◊〉 bue either by our paines accomplished to the satisfying of Gods righteausnes or o therwise pardoned there is no debt or bond of purgatorie at all the which is so cancelled by thy Church our Mother that it can not be required of God our father FVLKE The Popish Church 〈◊〉 more sabtillie if shee take not vpon her at all either directlie or indirectlie to heale bodilie sicknes by pardons not because men can not iudge so well for what cause they are laid vpon the diseased but because shee knoweth right well that though shee may in the darke bregg of such a matter yet hath shee in deede no such power nor authoritie neither in the fortaken or reprobate nor in any of Gods elect But the bonde of Purgatorie where of there is neither argument nor experience shee may be bolde to deale with al at her pleasure either in preuenting or releasing Wherein I maruell you make the matter so deintie seeing it is holden on 〈◊〉 side that the Pope hath authoritie by his pardon 〈◊〉 onelie to release some out of the paines of purgatorie but also to spoile all Purgatorie and to leaue it 〈◊〉 Your example of the paines of hell that can not neither by God nor man be helped or released hath an instance in your owne schoole of the Emperour Traiane eased of hell paines at the praier of Saint Gregorie if the tole be true Beside Augustinus de Ancona disputeth earnestlie that the Pope hath power in hell to mitigate or release the paines of the damned or at the lest of some of them and that the Church praieth for that ende Wherfore you agree not with your fellowes nor with the Popish Church which praieth for the deade vt liberentur de ore Leonis de profundo lacu that they be deliuered from the mouth of the Lion and from the deepe lake But be it as you saie yet your argument of the similitude of hell and Purgatorie is of no force because we know certainlie by the scriptures that there is hell but Purgatorie we finde not in the holie scriptures as Saint Augustine saith of any third place But by the scripture we finde the ende wherefore Purgatorie is imagined to be forged false blasphemous against the sacrifice of Christ his death and satisfaction which was once perfectlie performed by himselfe and not committed to the application of any other man ALLEN And this mooued alwaies the Church of God diligentlie to prouide of her tender mercie toward her louing Children that they should neuer departe out of this life in any debt of penance knowing well that the residue not satisfied here should be required at their handes afore God in the next life And therefore though many yeares of penance were prescribed to all such as did notorious crimes yet there was made euer lightlie a prouiso that at the houre of their extremitie they should haue peace and pardon and the Churches blessing in the holie sacrament and so departe free from bond of the Churches discipline as far as in her laie might be also discharged of the temporall scourge in the next life as no doubt they were if their remained no other impediment in thēselues So doth Nice Councell moste mercifullie prouide and so doth Ciprian and other fathers of the Primitiue Church that saw in their high wisedome the temporall paine to come much to hang on the parties satisfaction and the bond of the Churches enioyned penance And euen at this daie prouision is also made that no penance be giuen but vpon condition of his recouerie to any man that lieth at the extremitie of death lest he depart hence Ligatus bounde as Saint Augustine tearmeth it whereby the debt of his enioyned satisfaction might be required in Purgatory And nothing in the world prooueth more the Churches doctrine of purgatory Pardons then doth the continuall concorde and moste agreeable practize of these holie acts of binding and loosing vsed in her gouernement FVLKE The auncient Church in deede not acknowledging that shee had any authority to release any punishment to be suffered after this life determined alwaies the times of Canonicall penance with the ende of mens liues as I haue shewed before now you do acknowledge no lesse But if the Church had power after men were deade to release them of any paines shee needed not to haue beene so carefull in that point as shee was willing to comfort the penitent offenders at their depar ture as for the cancelling of all debt due for the satisfying of gods righteousnes which you did ascribe vnto the Church was the proper office of our sauiour Christ who performed that most necessarie worke to our eternal benefit once for all when he did put out the handwriting that was against vs in decrees and vtterlie abolished it nayling it to his crosse Finallie if nothing in the worlde prooueth more the Popish Churches doctrine of Purgatorie and pardons then the continuall practize of binding and loosing iustlie vsed in gouernement as you doe constantlie affirme it will easilie appeare that nothing in the world can prooue at all your blaspemous heresies of Purgatorie and pardons seeing the right vse of that power can be none other then according to the authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ of binding and loosing but neither purgatorie nor pardon out of that authoritie in any lawful forme of argument can euer be concluded howsoeuer in loose talke or scribling ignorant men may be caried awaie with the flow of wordes where there is no pitho argument How the practize of pardons of these late hundred veares differeth from the vsage of the primitiue Church and in what sense such great numbers of yeares and daies be remitted by the Popes pardons THE 8. CHAP. ALLEN BVt here we muste note some diuersitie in giuing Pardons and preuenting Purgatorie paines betwixt the primitiue Church of olde and ours of these latter hundred yeares which did moste iustlie rise vpon the alteration of ment manners state of things For in the primitiue Church enioyned penance was so large for euery mortal crime that it might seeme verie answerable vnto the nature of the faulte And doubtlesse it may not otherwise be thought but the spirit of God did limitate satisfaction by the Canons as agreeable in all pointes to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God
Apostles iurisdiction so fast locked and bound for his wickednes and let vs consider whether by the sime iurisdiction he may not receiue pardon and be loosed by which he was bound and punished before Yea let vs not doubt but it stoode in Pauis pleasure to padon the man sooner or later as he thought moste conuenient for the Churches edifying and the parties profit and therefore might haue tied him for twenty yeares together either in Sathans bondes or other enioyned penance or conirarie if he had thought expedient might haue loosed him within one houre and so haue giuen him so many daies of pardon as he list and ment to recompence by Christes satisfaction and the communion of Saintes in which the lackes of certeine may be supplied by the abundance of others Thus Saint Paul meaning to pardon the penitent giueth the Church of Corinth to vnderstand his pleasure touching the saide sinner that there stoode in the bandes of penance vpon his former sentence Lot his 〈◊〉 and checke giuen him of many be enough And now rather it were expedient that you did forgiue him and comfort him lest perhapps he be drowned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with excessiue sorow Therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 renew and confirme your loue towardes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mooue you in this matter to prooue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you be obedien in all things And where you 〈◊〉 there doe I forgiue also In deede as for me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is for your sake and in the person of 〈◊〉 that we be not circumuented of the deuill whose meaning in such matters I well vnderstande That you 〈◊〉 did the Apostle punish and thus did he remie againe 〈◊〉 the moderation of the Churchs discipline in his 〈◊〉 so far as his iurisdiction did extend amongest Christes people whose obedience in all such matters be claimed as you may perceiue by his owne wordes yet not without great respect and consideration of the offenders case and especiall care of the Churches edifying For full 〈◊〉 Saint Augustine said In actione autem poenitentioe vbi tale crimen commissum est vt is qui commisit à Christi etiam corpore separetur non tam consideranda est mensura temporis quà m doloris In the docing of penance where the sinne is such that it deserueth excommunication there is not so much respect to be had of the time as of his sorowfullnes that committed the fact FVLKE So long as you will gather nothing but the exercise of Christian discipline in binding loosing excommunicating and absoluing inioyning of Canonicall 〈◊〉 and pardoning of the sinne out of this example of Saint Paul you haue an inuincible proofe of the authoritie or iurisdiction of the gouernours of the Church of Christ against which we will neuer contend But when you will vrge more then the text will aford you can gaine no victory at our hands As first that the deuist was is aopointed to torment the sinners bodie it is not prooued by this text And Saint Ambrose whome you cite vpon Timothic speaking of the punishments of Hymineus and Alexander who perhapes were tormented for their blasphemie doth not so thinke vpon this very text but expoundeth this deliuerie vnto Satan to the destruction of the flesh to be his casting out of the Church which is the kingdome of god into the power of Satan as one that had deserued destruction both of bodie and soule that his carnall lust might be ouer come or mortified which Saint Augustine expoundeth also in like manner and more plainelie Quidergo agebal Apostelus nisi vt per interitum carnis 〈◊〉 spiritual 〈◊〉 vt siue aliqua poena 〈◊〉 corporali sicut Ananias vxer 〈◊〉 ante pedes Apostole Petri ceciderunt siuè per 〈◊〉 quoniam Satana traditus erat interimeret in se sceleratam carnis concupisientiam quia ipse 〈◊〉 dicit 〈◊〉 membra vestia quae sunt super terram inter quae for nicationem commemorat Et iterum Si enim 〈◊〉 carnem vixeritis moriemini c. For what did the Apostle but that by destruction of the flesh he might prouide for his spirituall health that whether by some temporall paine or death as Ananias and his wife fell downe before the Apostle Peters seet or whether by repentance because he was deliuered to Sathan he might kill in himselfe the wicked concupiscence of the flesh For he saieth also Mortifie your members which are vpon earth among which he rehearseth fornication And againe for if ye shall liue according to the flesh yee shall die By this you may see the opinion of corporal torment in this discipline of S. Paul is not necessary Againe where you saie it stood in Pauls pleasure to pardon the man sooner or later and he giueth the Corinthians to vnderstād his pleasure touching the said sinner you would perswad the ignorant that the gouerners of the Church vere bound to no lawe or rule in these matters but might doe what pleased them Although in the former you mittigate the matter by adding as he thought moste conuenient for the Churches edisying and the parties profit which is well said if by his thought you meane a sounde and right iudgement For the matter is not left to euerie man thinking more then to their pleasure but to a Godlie and necessarie consideration And therefore it stood not in Paulles pleasure to pardon the man sooner then he sawe in him the fruites of repentance nor later then he had certaine intelligence thereof Neither might he haue tied him for twentie yeares but vpon condition to release him immediatlie vpon his true repentance neither haue loosed him within an hower except within the space of that hower he had sufficient arguments of his repentance and satisfaction of the Churches offence and iudgement The reasons that he alledgeth why he iudged him now to be pardoned doe shewe no lesse lest he be swallowed vp by too much sorrowe lest we be intercepted by Sathan It was not lawfull for the Apostle to suffer the penitent to be ouercome with too much sorrowe not the Church to be circumuented by Satan Therefore it was not lawfull for him to haue differred his loosing anie longer As for the recompencing by Christs satisfaction the communion of Saints which is the blasphemous dispensation of the imaginarie treasure of the popish Church is not mentioned in this text nor in anie text of the bible nor in anie auncient Father but was lathe deuised to set a glosse vpon the popes pardons and practizes in purgatorie In the end you saie well both that the Apostle had great respect of the offenders case and care of the Churches edifying which prooueth that without neglecting that consideration and care he might not sooner or later haue loosed him nor tied him otherwise then he did And the saying of Augustine doth prooue wel that the prescript times of penance limited before his age were not so conuenient as the liberty of time where in the parties repentance might be iudged best as
soules of that parish so well hang to gether these blasphemous dreames of Saints merites and Christes satisfaction seperated from the act of his passion claimed to be at the Popes and prelates disposition The aboundance of one releiuing the lacke of another whereof Saint Paull speaketh is no communication of merites nor anie thing like vnto it but a participation of the gifts of God in this life As for merites of Saintes what should we speake of thē or whence should they haue them when mercie is their crowne as Saint Ambrose saieth Finallie howsoeuer you abase the dignitie and authoritie of inferrior ministers in graunting of pardon the auncient Church admitted them to reconcile in the absence of the Bishoppe or in case of necessitie as diuerse Cannons doe shew Wherefore if this power of pardoning were anie such a thing as the auncient discipline the popish Priestes should not be wholie excluded from it ALLEN And yet the Bishops themselue haue not in this case so full power and prorogatiue being but rulers of portiones of Christs Church as he hath whome Christ appointed to be his owne Vicare through his whole dominion For as Christ tht head of the whole bodie is annointed farre more plentifullie then all his bretheren so doubtles he that occupieth his seat of iudgement throughout the whole earth to whome not onelie the affaires of all priuat men but also the confirmation and gouernement of all his brethren Bishops of what dignity so euer they be doth belong Vpon whome Christ hath laide the foundation of his Church and to whome he seuerallie gaue the keies of heauen with moste ample authoritie both to loose and binde feede and gouerne all the sheepe of his folde It is this man no doubt that hath the full treasure of the holie communion of Saints to bestow with maruelous authoritie ouer mans soule with wonderfull might in binding and exceeding grace and mercie in loosing This is the man of whome Saint Bernard saith alluding to Iosephs preheminence in Pharos house constituit eum Dominum Domus suae Principem omnis possessionis suae He hath made this man the Lord of all his house and the Prince of his wholl possession This man therefore representing Christs owne person through the wholl Church and hauing the cure and regiment of euerie one of Christs sheepe may moste lawfullie donare aliquid in persona Christi shew mercie to any man in Christes behalfe none being exempted from his iurisdiction nor any of the churches treasure restreinea from his disposition FVLKE The Pope graunteth to the Bishops as it pleaseth him a shadow of this power of pardoning reseruing the rest to himselfe for his owne aduantage and pre ferment The reasons here alledged to prooue that no Bishop hath so great preheminence in pardoning as the Pope are all petitions of principles which as they are here barelie affirmed so it shall be sufficient for me flatlie to denie them as that the Pope is Christs Vicar heade of the Church occupieth Christs seate of iudgement hath the foundation of the Church laied vpon him hath the keies of heauen seuerallie and so of all the rest Neither is S. Bernard a late writer sufficient to giue the Pope the steuardship of Gods house as Ioseph had of Potiphar the Egiptian therefore he hath no more power to pardon then any other Bishop admitting he were Bishop of Rome and not Antichrist which hath no power at al but vsurped tyrannie ouer Gods house ALLEN But because I cannot ground this my meaning better then vpon a generall Councell I will reporte the decree of the moste holie assemblie holden at Lateran more then three hundreth yeares since vnder Innocentius the thirde by which not onelie this doctrine of Pardons is approoued but also the superfluttie thereof and such disorder as was therein through couetousnes of euill persons or lacke of authoritte in the giuers is corrected with a declaration who be the onelie lawful ministers in such remissions of inioyned penance Thus goeth the decree Quia per indiseretas indulgentias atque superfluas quai quidam Ecclessarum Praelati facere non verentur claues Ecclesiae contemnuntur poeniientialis satisfactio eneruatur decernimus vt cum dedicatur Basilica non extendatur indulgentia extra annum siue ab vno solo siue à pluribus Episcopis dedicetur ac deinde in anniuersario dedicationis tempore quadraginta dies de iniunctis poenitentiis indultaremissio non excedat intra hunc quoque dierum numerum indulgentiarum literas praecipim is moderari quae pro quibuslibet causis aliquoties concedantur cùm Romanus Pontisex qui plenitudinem obtinet potestatis hoc in talibus moderamen consueuerit obseruare That is to saie Because the keies of the Church be contemned and sacramentall satisfaction is much weakened by certain indiscreete and superfluous Indulgences the which certain Prelates of the Churches are ouer bolde to bestowe we decree that hereafter at the dedication of any Chappel no pardon be giuen more then for one yeare whether it be dedicated by one bishop or moe the that there be noremissions afterwarde in the yearelie celebrating of the said dedications more then of fourtie daies of enioyned penance The like also to be obserued in all other common instruments by which for other good causes and holie purposes pardons shall be giuen seeing the Bishoppe of Rome himselfe who hath the fullnes of power herein vseth customably so to moderate the letters of pardons that proceede from him By which holie Councell you may perceiue not onelie that the Bishoppes of Gods Church may giue pardons but that the Bishoppe of Romesright is much more ample in this case then theirs can be and especiallie how carefull the Church euer hath beene to purge all corruption of doctrine or vsage crept into the worlde thorough the disorder of mans misbehauiour how wicked the indeuours of some euill disposed persons be who cease not vnhonestlie to attribute that to the Church of Christ which shee hath euer sought to redresse in the euill manners of them that haue disgraced the doctrine of trueth and made contemtible the moste profitable practize of holie thinges by their misuse of the same FVLKE Seeing you can ground your meaning no better as you your selfe confesse then vpon this popish Lateran Councell all indifferent readers may see how weake and latelie laid ground and foundation it hath To omit your translation of Basilica for a Chappell which rather signifieth a Cathedrall or Princelie Church I will consider what you gather out of this Councell First that Bishops may pardon nay rather that Bishoppes then did pardon Secondlie that the Bishop of Romes right is more ample nay rather that euerie Bishoppe of olde did graunt larger pardons then the Pope vsed to graunt who vsed not to passe one yeare in dedication and 40 daies in all other occasions For according to that moderation the Bishop of Rome did vse all
auncient Church First you saie therfore that the Pope may lawfullie graunt pardons to them that be in Purgatorie whereof you saie there canbe no more doubt then there can be of the other In deede they be both of like certaintie sauing that for this later question it must first be prooued whether there be any purgatory before it be demanded whether the Popes pardons extend to purgatorie Saint Augustine somewhile doubted whether there were any such place and saith it may be doubted of and perhapes be found perhapes neuer be founde other while he vtterlie denieth any third place because he findeth it not in the scriptures neither shal the pope be able euer to finde such fictions in the scriptures The like I saie of his power of application of the merites of Christ or his Saints or that the saints haue any merits for themselues much lesse for other men Wherefore it standeth neither vpon reason nor vpon any meaning of Gods word whereof there can no wordes be shewed including or importing anie such meaning that the Popes pardons should reach to the release of purgatorie paines if anie such were which cannot release the lest paine that any man suffereth vpon the earth That Leo the tenth did excommunicat Luther it proueth no more the Popes doctrine to be true then that Caiphas condemned Christ prooueth Caiphas to haue bin an honest man ALLEN Marie whether the Indulgences take place so often vpon the dead as vpon the liue that is not so well knowen because the persons departed be not in case to make themselues more apt to take benefit thereby then they were at their departure hence And therfore if they were not with singular zeale and deuotion so qualified in the end of their life they cannot now any whit abetter their own case or otherwise dispose themselues to attaine the fruit of those singular remissions And more then that no Indulgence is lightlie graunted but vpon the fullfilling of some appointed worke of pietie and the departed not hauing alwaies in this life such friends as will accomplish competently the worke prescribed by the Pardon nor himselfe now in case to doe the same he often misseth the benefit of the Churches remission which else he might haue had by the meaning of the giuer Whereupon it seemeth to some to be no surer how far the departed may be relieued by the keies of the Church then it is of other holie suffragies and good workes either of priests or priuate persons all which doe assuredlie relieue them that be in Purgatorie but without anie limitation of benefit which whollie is vnknowne to the liuing without speciall reuelation in what state they stand FVLKE Two causes you assigne why it is not knowne whether indulgences take place so often vpon the deade as vpon the liuing The first because the soules there can take no benefite of pardons but according to the merites of their life But this reason is confuted by authoritie of the glosse vpon the first bull of Iubilie which saith that pardons respect grace and not merite which if it be true not the merits of the receiuer but the power and will of the giuer were to be obserued The second reason is that pardons lightlie require some worke to be fulfilled But that worke is neuer so laborious as the paines already by them susteined in purgatorie if we beleeue you which if it will not serue for a recompence or commutation of penance you will hardelie perswade men that saying of such a prayer giuing of such an almes visiting such an Idoll should be sufficient to make the Popes pardon auaileable But it is a pitifull case that poore soules in purgatórie which lacke nothing for their release but such a trifling worke to be performed for them and haue no friend in this life that will accomplish it for them should lie still broiling in the frying panne and be so litle regarded of the Pope that he will not appoint that his clergie at the least of their charitie should take paines for them although they haue no penie for their Pater noster That some among you thinke the profite of pardons is no surer then of other suffrages and workes to them in purgatorie which are auaileable but you know not how much first it sheweth the certaintie of your faith which leaneth vpon such helpes as you know not whereto they will serue you Secondlie it sheweth that you are not agreed among your selues of such articles as you thrust vpon other men to be credited And thirdlie that euerie one among you being not resolued of the Popes keies of iurisdiction some thinke that the Pope hath arrogan the abused his keies when he hath taken vpon him to dzale further in purgatorie then they are perswaded he hath authoritie For certaine it is the Pope hath pretended by his pardons not onelie to release soules out of purgatory but also to giue other men power to release three or foure a peece whome they will choose ALLEN And therefore vpon this consiacration the learned diuines doe teach that the Pope doth and lawfullie maie applie vnto the soules departed by his keies some parte of the Churches treasure which consisteth of Christes satisfaction and other his Saints by which they departed as they haue neede and be in competent termes to receiue benefite by the merits of their head or fellowes maie be released from some parte of their paines but yet they will not charge anie man with necessitie of belceuing that the Pope or Church should vse meere iurisdiction ouer them that be in an other worlde To be plaine for the peoples vnderstanding the meaning is that in a pardon there are two thinges the one is a sentence of absolution definitelie pronounced vpon anie person penitent the second is the recompence of the debt of sinne remitted by the saide absolution through the application of the Churches treasure by the power of the officiers keies Both these two iointlie can neuer be exercised vpon anie person not subiect though the one maie Absolution can not properlie be giuen nor fruitfullie to anie man not subiect to the giuers regiment but the application of the treasure may be made by the keies to procure mercie for them that be not vnder their power but that is not by proper iurisdiction but by aide of request made by iust offers why the partie should be receiued vnto mercie In this sense then the Pope absolueth no man departed absolutelie But onelie offereth in the person of Christ for the reliefe of him that is in Purgatorie to God his mighti iudge there the abundant price of Christs passion and the satisfaction of Saints And no doubt for his reuerence and representing Christes person he is more often heard then anie priuate man offering onelie his owne almes and praier for the soule departed And for that cause in this sense the Popes pardon worketh onelie per modum suffragij as by aide of sute and not by regiment or iurisdiction which
manie suppose doth not extend past the compasse of this worlde and therefore that he cannot exercise the acte of binding or loosing which be proper to his power and gouernment ouer anie in the next life though to make sute for them before God he maie applie some portion of Christes copious redemption and Saints satisfaction by the vse of his keyes which there make forcible intercession though they cannot giue iudiciarie absolution FVLKE If the Pope haue not meere iurisdiction in Purgatorie how could Clement graunt the release of soules to be at other mens arbitrement by his pardon Againe how could he be able to spoile all purgatorie which is affirmed to be possible to his absolute power But for plainer vnderstanding of this mysterie of iniquitie and abhominable blasphemie you consider two thinges in a pardon the absolution and the application which later you saie maie be made for them that be not vnder their power whereof it will follow that all Bishoppes hauing the dispensation of the treasure committed vnto them as well as the Pope maie graunt pardons to them that be none of their iurisdiction which by application maie be profitable to them though they be not by absolution But what is this application You answere it is not by regiment but by aide of sute A grosse deuise to turne a pardon or remission into a sute or request for a pardon when in the pardon there is no wordes of praier or request but of concession and graunt But by this pardon you saie the Pope offereth to God the price of Christes passion and the satisfaction of Saints Then haue we a new oblation neuer before heard of proper to the Pope in graunting of pardons Or if it be a prerogatiue of the Pope that he maie be saide to praie when he doth graunt or commaund and offer a bargen ofre compence where he can doe no more but entreate the iudge to accept it no passe ouer all other blasphemies conteined in this chaffer with god I demaund why the Popes praier should be heard rather then the praier of other Byshops and priests You answere no doubt for his reuerence blasphemouslie applying to the Pope that which according to the volgar translation is alledged to be the cause why Christ was heard of his father You 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because he representeth Christes person Why how farre is Christ from Gods presence that he hath need to be represented by the Pope The scripture indeed doth often allow that the minister of Christ doth represent the person of Christ vnto men because his person is not visible nor his humanitie present vnto them But that anie mortall man should represent the person of Christ before God and by the vertue of that representation applie the merites of Christ otherwise then he applied by his passion it is straunge and intollerable blasphemie and such as none but a limme of Antichrist would vtter As also it is hòrrible to heare that the Popes keies in porgatorie should make forcible intercession where they can not giue iudiciarie absolution Before we had but two keies the one of order the other of iurisdiction Now commeth in the third keie of suffrage by application which is rather a picklock then a keie because it maketh a forcible entrie where the key hath no lawfull Iurisdiction ALLEN And al this that the follie os manie men so much wondereth at is nothing else but to set before God the Father the death of his owne Sonne and his grace in all Saintes for to procure mercie for their poore breethren in miserie in the next life as the like is done with great pietie in manie other holie actes of religion continuallie practised in the Church for the mutuall helpe one of another And in deede the Church hath vsed these manie yeares to put this clause in such Indulgencies as did in unie parte concerne the departed per modum suffragy as Sixtus the fourth Innocentius the eight and now of late both Pius the fourth and the fifte and all other lightlie in the like grauntes Whereby it is plaine that we are not charged by the Church further to beleeue then that the Pope maie assuredlie release the departed of some parte of their paines or all by the waie of suffrage and sute as other holie workes of Christianitie applied vnto them by their brethren aliue maie doe For it were no reason that priuate persons should as it were communicate and send vnto them their fastes almes and praiers for the release of their paine and he that representeth Christes person should not in Christes name and the wholl Churches applie vnto them some part of the common wealthes treasure to sue for their deliuerie and help to satisfie for them in their lacks This therefore they call a Pardon per modum suffragy as by way of aid of request Which doctrine is most true in it selfe and agreable to the practise of the Church and forme of Indulgences alwaies vsed and maie assuredlie relieue such as departed hence in grace and zeale of Gods house which I count disposition enough in the partie and haue friendship in the world of such as for their sakes will be content to accomplish the appointed worke of the Pardon FVLKE So long as you maie be allowed to saie what you list without profe you may say all this is nothing els but to set before God c. or what you will beside The clause you speake of per modū suffragy hath not bin added of many yeares seing Sixtus the fourth the first that added it liued not 100. yeares before you did wright of this mat ter The cause of this addition was a certaine booke set forth by one Petrus Oxoniensis doctor of diuinitie in the vniuersitie of Salmantica in Spaine containing diuers conclusions contrarie to the Popish Churchs doctrine which by the Archbishop of Toledo Alphonsus Cirillus were committed to be disputed discussed in a congregation of 52. doctors in diuinitie Canon law The first of which conclusions was that deadlie sinnes as touching the fault and the punishment of the other world are put away by only cōtrition of the heart without order vnto the keies The fift that penitēts are not to be absolued before their penance inioyned be performed The sixt that the Pope can not pardon any mā aliue the paine of purgatorie The discussing of these conclusions caused Pope Sixtus the rest to deuise this new clause interpretation of their pardons per modum suffragii whereas before there was neither any such words nor meaning in their pardons but the contrarie to be gathered verie plainlie that the pope had iurisdiction in purgatory in so much that Augustinus de Ancona which liued before this time doubteth not to conclude that the Pope by his absolute iurisdiction may spotle all purgatorie of all those persons which are subiect to his iurisdiction which are all except they that lack merit conditionall and such as may do for them those things for which
building But as it was last inuented for none of the auncient Church for a thousand yeares and more euer heard of it so you haue done well to thrust it vnto the last end of your booke And first you beginne with an obiection vpon your owne ground that for answering of Gods iustice there remaineth a temporall paine after sinne remitted But because the obiection is such as you are neuer able to answer so well your principles of popery hang one vpon another you couer the hardest point and will not let it appeare namelie that Gods iustice requireth punishment of the partie him selfe that offended for satisfying his iustice which was not satisfied by the death and obedience of Christ which if it be true then can there be no remission by any other meanes sauing the iustice of God but by the parties owne suffering Yet let vs see how you auoid the obiection io fauourablie set downe for your seife to answer you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise satisfied by the aboundant satisfactiō made by Christ vpon the crosse and by the merites of his saints If this be true then is the other principle false that Gods iustice requireth temporall punishment of the partie for the recompence of Christs satisfaction and saints merites is not the parties owne punishment wherefore as in the obiection you runne from Christes most perfect satisfaction so in the answere you runne from the obiection which is no answer or satisfaction The scripture is plaine that the blood of Christ purgeth vs from all sinne and Christ by one oblation hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified he hath once entred into the holie place by his owne blood and found eternall redemption The satisfaction for sinne the purging of vnrightcousnes the perfecting of the saints and euerlasting redemption can abide no reseruation of punishment either temporall or eternall in which the iustice of god is throughlie answered by the obedience and suffering of Christ whose stripes hauing healed vs there remaineth no suffering of our part for satisfying of his iustice And you confesse that there is a sufficient value in the suffering of Christ for the taking awaie of all temporall punishment if it be well applied by the Pope So that Christes redemption was but a power of redeeming and not an act of redemption a power depending vpon the will of man to applie according to his pleasure as you were wount to speake and not according to Gods determination and eternal election And so you robbe Christ of the effect of his death passion by which he obteined eternal redemptiō for al gods elect to enrich the pope with a treasure infinit and vnspendable for that word youlent me before which he might bestow and dispense at his pleasure But let vs a litle enter into your storehouse see what tresure there is and how you came by it First you tell vs of the infinite abilitie and the inestimable valew of euerie drop of Christes bloode c. to satisfie all debt due for all sinne and al paine for the same and yet you alow to the act and effect of his bloodie sacrifice the value but of halfe a drop denying the same to haue satisfied Gods iustice for temporall paine all the rest you claime for the treasure of the Popish Church which dreame was neuer hard of before the Iubilie graunted by Boneface the 8. in the glosse wherof it was first deuised where it is saied that pardons are founded vpon the merits of Christ and taken out of it Passio namque Christi excessiua fuit vnde excessus vocatur in Luca vbi dicitur quod in transfiguratione Christi apparuerunt Moses Elias cùm eo dicebans excessum quem completurus erat in Ierusalem vnica enim guita sanguinis tam preciost suffecisset pro redemptione totiu mundi Nam propter coniunctionem humanitatis cùm diuinitate 〈◊〉 passio Christi perpessa pro redemptione nostra habebat precium infinitum Noluit autem Christus quod excessus isie frustra fuisset quod de nihilo nobis 〈◊〉 sed volait quod esset Thesaurus Ecclesiae per suum vicarium Ro pontificem pro fidelibus loco tempore dispensandus dispensatur autem cum eis indulgentiae conceduntur For the passion of Christ was excessiue whereof also in Saint Luke it is called an excesse where it is said that in the transfiguration of Christ appeered Moses and Elias with him and they spake of the excesse which he should fullfil at Ierusalem For one drop of so precious blood might haue sufficed for the redemption of the wholl worlde For because of the coniunction of the humanity with the diuinitie neuer so small a suffering of Christ suffered for our redemption had an infinit price But Christ would not that this excesse should be in vaine and that it should serve vs for nothing but he would that it should be the treasure of the Church to be bestowed by his vicar the Bishop of Rome in time and place for the faithfull and it is bestowed when pardons are graunted to thē Marke vpon what text this treasure is grounded and how clarkely it is expounded Moses and Elias talked with Christ of his departure out of this life which he should finish at Ierusalem this departure being termed in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Latine excessum this Doctor interpreteth to be an excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ the ouerplus whereof lest it should be in vaine and serue for nothing is made the treasure of the Church to be dispensed by the pope But who wil graunt such excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ as you imagine or that neuer so small a suffering of Christ had beene sufficient for the redemption of the wholl worlde which if it were graunted seeing Christ from his infancie snffered many things for vs euerie one of them might haue beene our redemption and so the sacrifice of Christs death was vnnecessarie for our redemption So that his blood shed in his circumcision and much more in his scourging crowning with thorne had bin infinitely more thē enough although he had not suffered death and shed his blood on the crosse Againe as it doth moste excellentlie set forth the iustice and mercie of God to the euerlasting comfort of the faithfull that Christ by his obedience and suffering did moste perfectlie satisfie the one and moste plentifullie purchase the other to the eternall redemption and euerlasting felicitie of all Gods elect so it is against the iustice of god that he should require that his sonne should suffer infinitlie more then was needeful to answere his iustice work a perfect redēption as this glossary dreame of the Popish Churches treasure doth imagine Neither doth the argument of the coniunction of the humanitie with the diuinitie prooue anie such matter But if that were graunted by what scripture is the infinite ouerplus made a treasure of
whose honour the good men make themselues so tender These wordes then doth Saint Paull vtter of his trauaile taken for the Churches sake Now I doe reioyce in my passions or tribulations taken for your sake and I fullfill those things that doe want of Christ passions in mine owne flesh for his bodie which is the Church Thus said Saint Paul Wherby you see that not onelie the want of one member may be supplied of the heade of the bodie but that ech member may helpe the insufficiencie of an other member Whereby for all that we may not conceiue that there is any lacke or insufficiencie on Christs parte or passion which was so full and abundant of it owne valure that by it selfe alone without the helpe of all mans merits or other creatures it was a sufficient price for the sinnes of all the worlde and moe if moe might be But the lacke that this his passion was not in effect so forcible and so fullie in all mens cases was the want of some paines and passion in his bodie the Church by which she and euerie of hers were bound to conforme them-selues vnto Christ by taking paines in their flesh and suffering together with Christ their head For so long Christes passion wanteth his due effect in vs though it were neuer so full and sufficient in it selfe as we do not conforme our selues to his paine tribulation taken for vs. Therfore though Christ in his owne person suffer now no more yet he doth suffer and dailie shall suffer till the worlds end in diuers members of his holie bodie as the heade saith Saint Augustine suffereth when the finger aketh and as Christ him selfe charged Saint Paul that he persecuted him when he onelie molested his members And so long as the Church militant trauailesh here in earth so long hath Christ our Maister somewhat to suffer to make his passion effectuall in such as shall be saued and in that sense some peece of his passion in euerie of the faithfulls bodies must be supplied By all which holie paines of the head himselfe principallia and of the holie members of his bodie who wrought not onelie for themselues but expreslie meant to benefit other by their workes as the Apostle confesseth of himselfe we neede not to doubt but the lacke of many a poore member of this blessed incorporation is dulie supplied and the want of worke satisfactorie in some recompensed by the abundance of paines and penance of others For this is the blessed cause of such as be in the Church of God in the fellowshippe of the faithfull in the knot of those members whereof our sauiour is the head that is to saie in the holie communion of Saints in which as some do lack so other some by Christs gift do abound and are able to procure mercie for the needie and to satisfie God for their poore breethrens sinnes And yet all this entercourse of benefits and mutuall helpes passeth not from the head to the members nor from one member of the bodie to another but by the ordinarie meanes of Christes appointment as by sacraments sacrifice and sundrie waies of his seruice and that not without the ministerie of men in whome he hath out the word of his reconciliation to whome he hath committed his keies to keepe his sheepe to feed his mysteries to dispose and to whome finallie he hath giuen full power both to binde and loose FVLKE Of all the auncient doctors and learned of the Church whose writinges haue come to our hands it is great maruell no one could see the increase of the Churches treasure in this texte of Saint Paull But seing they saw not all thinges let vs consider in what expresse wordes Saint Paul vttereth your meaning Where is mention of the treasure of the Church in this texte where is mention of the merit of Saintes where is mention of the remaines of Saints satisfaction ouer and aboue their owne necessitie where is mention of the wante of satisfying Gods iustice for temporall paines If there be neuer a worde of all these thinges in what expresse wordes doth Saint Paul vtter your meaning First he reioyceth in his afflictions which he suffered for their sake because they tended to the confirmation of their faith and example of Constancie Secondlie he sulfilleth those thinges that want or remaine of Christs passion in his owne bodie this argueth no insufficiencie of Christes passion you confesse for his parte but the wante of some paines in his bodie the Church so farre wee agree with you for Christ was to suffer in his members the saints and they are by suffering to be made conformable vnto him that they might reigne with him but that these sifferinges were satisfactions vnto Gods righteousnes for temporall paine to make the passion of Christ effectuall to themselues or vnto other Saint Paull saith not in expresse wordes neither shall you euer be able to prooue by a true syllogisme out of this place or anie text in the scripture that he meaneth But Saint Paull saieth he suffereth for Christes bodie which is his Church namelie to confirme the faith of the Church as all the olde Fathers doe expound it and as he doth a best expound himselfe 2. Cor. 1. 6. but to satisfic for paine not satisfied by Christes death he neuer saith ne meaneth In tribulationibus saith S. Ambrose vpon this text quas patiebatur exultare se satetur quia profectum 〈◊〉 videt in side credentium Saint Paull acknowledgeth that he reioiceth in the affictions which he suffered because he seeth his profit in the faith of the beleeuers And the words of S. Paul are plaine when he saith that he suffereth for the Church according to that dispensation which was committed vnto him which was to edifie the Church in the faith not to redeeme the Church by his sufferings S. Augustine speaking of the suffering of martyrs and the effecte of them and comparing them with the passion of Christ thus writeth Ille nobis non 〈◊〉 nos saluos saceret nos sine illo nihil possumus facere ille se nobis palmitibus praebuit vitem nos habere preter illum non possumus vitam postremo etst fratres pro fratrib moriantur tamen in fraternoruam peccatorum remissionem nullius sanguis martyris funditur quod fecit ille pro nobis neque in hoc quid imitaremur sed quid gratularemur He had no neede of vs that he might saue vs we without him can do nothing He hath giuen himselfe to be a vine to vs the branches we be side him can haue no life Finallie although breethren do die for their breethren yet the bloood of no martir is shed for the remission of his brcethrens sinnes which he did for vs neither hath bestowed vpon vs herein anie thing that we should follow but that we might reioycein In these wordes Augustine denyeth that Christes passion wanted the paines aud pas sions of martirs to be fullie
fert misericordiam saith Saint Chrysostome We haue a meeke master he onelie taketh occasion and sireight he sheweth himselfe whollie to be giuen to mercie He appointeth to punish that they maie see what of iustice their sinne requireth yet he seeketh meanes himselfe that their high priestes and guides maie turne awaie the iniovned plague that they maie learne said the saide holie Doctor that they had their pardon not of their owne merites or deseruings but by Moses Patronage and praiers That you maie see thereby how one member relieueth through Gods mercie his sellowe member that lacked Whereby there appeareth both exceeding iustice much more mercie All his waies truelie be mercie and iudgement to such as loue his testimonies FVLKE Men must needs maruell at yourimpudencie that will defend a necessitie of temporall paine to be suffered by the partie whose sinnes are remitted for satisfying of Gods iustice and yet will haue the same be released without the parties suffering and Gods iustice be answered without the paine of the soule that offended For otherwise the passion of Christ we know is sufficient and effectuall to take awaie all paine because Gods iustice is throughlie satisfied by him You graunt it sufficient and denie it to be effectuall because Gods iustice requireth temporal paine of the partie that offended as well as satisfaction for the sinne ' and eternall paine thereby deserued which hereticall assertion cannot stand with anie pardon or satisfaction by an other how soeuer you goe about the bush in words and shewe of setting forth Gods mercie to reconcile them Neither doth inioyning of ponance by the auncient Church nor Gods owne temporall scourges in this life prooue anie necessitie of suffering for satisfaction of Gods iustice vnsatisfied by the passion of Christ. The temporall scourges after this life you must first prooue that there be such before you can conclude any thing by such Neither hath God a thousand waies to seeke to satisfie him-selfe with his sonnes paines but the onelie mediation and propitiation of his sonne is the waie to satissie his iustice sor sin Neither requireth he the trauell of any man other then the externall ministerie of the Church to applie the paines of his sonne vnto the benefit of sinners which ministerie consisteth in preaching his worde deliuerie of his sacraments and exercising of discipline not in meriting and making satisfaction for sin or in deseruing that Christ satisfaction should be auaileable to take awaie sinne or any paine due sor the same That God hath often giuen mercie and grace at Moses and Aarons request it prooueth not his iustice to be satisfied by Moses or Aarons workes but onelie by Christ in whome all praiers of the saints are effectual or to obtaine mercie either for them selues or for others And when he stirreth vp the iust to stand betwixt him and the people when he should punish he setteth not mans iustice or merites betweene his iustice and the offenders but prouoketh them to seeke mercie and forgiuenes for Iesus Christes sake the onelie Mediator of God and man And that is the meaning of Chrysostome whose wordes you cite and translate at your pleasure but thus they are hom de penit confess Mansuetum habemus dominum solùm occasionem arripere vult mox omnem praese fert misericordiam Nam ne peccantes inulti manentes nos efficeremur deteriores non remisit nobis supplicium sed vidit hoc manifestè quòd peccatis ipsis non minus damnosum sit non puniri propter hoc imponit poenam non exigens supplicium de peccatis sed ad futura nos corrigent Et vt discas quod hoc sit verum audi quid dicatad Mosem dimite me iratus delebeos dimitte me non quod Moseseum retinuerit neque enim loquutus erat ad eum sed silenter astabat sua pro illis oratione non autem supplicacionem ei dare vo lebat quonamilli digna suppliciis comiserant suppliciisque ineuitabilibus punire autem volebat sed miserecorditer quod eos segniores reddebat Viraque autem fecit vs paenam non inferres neque illos faceret ignauiores paena non irrogata Discebant n. quod non sue merito sed Mosis patrocinio iram dominicam effugerint We hau a gentle Lord he onelie wil take an occasion and streight he sheweth forth al mercie For lest we sinning and abiding vnpunisbed should be made worscr he hath not remitted the punishment vnto vs but this he saw manifestlie that it is no lesse hurtful then the sinnes themselues not to be punished for this cause he layeth on vs a paine not exacting punishment for sinnes but correcting vs for the time to come And that thou maiest learne that this is true heare what he saith to Moses Let me alone and in mine anger I will destroie them Let me alone saith he not that Moses did holde him for he had not spoken vnto him But stoode with silence in his praier for them But he would giue him no supplication because they had committed things worthie of punishment and of punishmēt vnauoydeable He meaned to punish but mercifully which made thē more slouthful But these two things he did both that he should not lay punishmēt on them nor make thē more slouth ful because punishmēt was not taken For they learned that not by their own merit but by patronage of Moses they escaped the Lords anger These words of S. Chrysostom do manifestlie declare that the temporall punishment that God laieth vpon his people are not satisfactions of his iustice but corrections of his mercie The patronage of Moses in this place signifieth not the merits of Moses but his praiers and intreatie made for them which are heard for Christes sake and not for the worthines of him that praieth For no man hath accesse to God but onelie in the worthines and merits of Iesus Christ in whome God hath set forth his wonderfull glorie of mercie iustice to the eternall saluation of all his saints which loue his testimonies and vnto whom al his waies are mertie and truth as the Prophet saith Psal. 25. 10. ALLEN And it fareth with our Lord God as it doth with a wise and discreete master towards his seruants or with a father towards his louing children for they will often shew themselues to be rigorous bent to chastice the faults of their seruaunts children and yet themselues of their owne accord will often procure some other to hinder their intended punishments and to take from them as it were by force their children or other offenders euen so standeth it betweene God the children of his chosen Church who though he often iustly shew himselfe angrie and bent to correction neuer the lesse he doth not onelie mercifully remit but procureth him selfe other either patrons or intercessours for whose sakes he maie iustlie by good reason remit After manie threatninges of the citie and people of
yow saith he that can be are with no mans faultes but your owne did not subscribe to the crime as the law ordeineth to binde your selues to the punishment of the faults which you could not prooue against other Yes verelie either for the generall crime of heresies laide against Antichrist and his sinagogue or the particular crimes against the persons of many Papists the reachers of this learning which we professe and many professours also haue put to their names and subscribed with their owne handes And although they failed not of proofe if they had beene heard before indifferent iudges yet haue they beene cruellie tormented and put to death for the testimonie of the trueth whereas if Frarine should haue beene bounde to the ordinance of the law which he prescribeth to others if he had as many liues as Hydra is fained to haue heades his bodie would not haue sufficed to the execution which he hath deserued both for his particular slaunders against some men and for his last generall accusation of all Protestantes But yet more impudentlie you behaued your selues and more contrarie to all order and forme of lawfull proceeding for in this your monstrous iudgement of reformation you were accusers witnesses Iudges and hang men yourselues Howe much more rightlie might he haue vttered this against the Pope who beeing accused of heresie and blasphemie would be his owne iudge and tried by no witnes butof his owne allowing wheras the Protestantes neuer refused the arbitriment of a free and lawful councel the auncient remedie to decide the controuersies of the Church where the word of God should be the highest Iudge against which no conuocation of men haue power to define any thing But it maie be saith Frarine that your vow of chastitie which you were not suffred to break by mariage which he calleth bathing their bodies in the stinking pudle of carnall pleasures was the cause of your vprores How vnfitlie this quarrell of vowes is alledged against Caluine and Beza the principall teachers of the french nation who neuer made that vow all wise men maie laugh to consider Yet he followeth the matter verie whotlie and saith that faith and promise to a mortall enemie is to be kept much more made to almightie God I would this eloquent orator had beene aliue in the time of the councell of Constance that he might haue persuaded the Popish Church to haue kept the publike faith and safe conduite graunted to Hus and Hierome which was shamefullie violated vnder colour that faith was not to be kept with heretikes or in the time of the slaughter of Varni which drew with it the destruction of the noble realme of Hungarie that he might haue diswaded the pope from stirring vp the king of Hangary to breake the faith and league of peace made with the great Turke vpon pretence that faith is not to be kepte with infidels But as for vowes made to god except they be of things vnlawfull or which are not in our power to performe who doubteth but they are inuiolablie to be obserued The vow of chastitie in such as are not able to conteine is not kept by not marrying But rather dailie broken in burning The remedie whereof by the iudgement of Epiphanius and Saint Hierom and the Catholike Church of their times is mariage and not the common stewes and brothell houses light women maried and vnmaried and Nuns fallen from their profession which Frarine doth leaue vnto them as a lesse euell then mariage But where are those common stewes and brothel howses which he saith are open at all times and euerie where at mens pleasures Are there any to be shewed vnder such Christian Princes Magistrates as manteine the doctrine of the Gospell no verilie but where poperie reigneth where the Pope setreth himselfe at Rome No maruell though such grosse impietie be not onely suffered to be vnpunished but also by the Popes proctors to be desended as conuenient Yet some townes are so well ordered that votaries can not be suffered to haue a misteris Candida for a vessell of easement which he saith is Couerdales phrase yet sheweth no place where he demaundeth then whether that were a sufficient quarrell to bidde battaile to manteine the kingdom and Gospell of Venus in euerie place so chast religious his phrases be while he carpeth at Couerdales phrase whome perhappes he belieth in such sence as he meaneth I answer there was no such cause For if they had beene as greatlie addict to Ladie Lecherie as he faineth of them those well ordered townes are not so manie in Poperie but that they might with much more ease haue remooued to Cyties of greater licence then to haue taken in hand and indured so great and dangerous warres And if the satisfying of lust without regard of conscience had beene the marke they shot at they needed not so to haue bound themselues to one woman in mariage which bringeth manie cares and troubles with it when they might without controllement haue had their change and choice as you confesse by the common stewes euerie where euen to the cloying of carnall lust if they had continued still in Poperie But yet further searching out the cause of these warres taken in hand he obiecteth that some of our side suffered for the words sake for so saith he ye cal that cursed Gospel of yours Doubtles we cal the word of God and no Gospell of ours but the Gospell of Christ by that tearme which we finde vsed in the holie scriptures therefore are not afraid of it Nay but you suffered worthilie saieth he for barking at prelates Princes for working al means to wring the sword out of their hands for troubling and disordering the state of common weales for blaspheming the sacrament of the alter and therfore they were no Martyrs but rather Diuelles This lastcrime dependeth vpon that controuersie of doctrine whether that which he tearmeth a sacrament be not rather a sacriledge detestable Idole as it is vsed in poperie The other crimes are vtterlie false and manifestlie confuted by the quiet behauiour of those professors in all places where they be not assaulted with intollerable iniuries and by the florishing estate of those kingdomes common wealthes where this doctrine by publike autoritie hath long time bene receiued But was it meete saith he that because they could not freelie preach the worde therefore they should by and by laie hand on the sworde The Apostles were went to suffer and not to strike But O Master Ministers your word is verie hard you speake gunnestones you preach fire and powlder you ride to preach on barbed horses you put on your corpsiet not of faith but of iron Al your proceedings and teachings are contrarie to Christ and his doctrine What wise man may not laugh at this vaine rhetorike who hath sene or hard the modest and Christianlike behauiour of our preachers that I speake nothing of their doctrine yea Christ saith he was
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe
a lordly authoritie and imperiall souer aignitie he knoweth not by what right except it be from sathā But we know that frō sathā the first father of falsehood come these shameles lies of their vsurpation of Lordship or affectation of imperiall soueraignitie Wel yet he proceedeth and saith the Bishops doe excommunicase them and the Princes banish them God sheweth no signe for them except it be a miracle to make the liue starke dead while they faine that they are able by the vertue of there gospell to restore the dead to life as one Mathias did in Polonia And the like is reported of Caluine credibly in Geneua Touching the excommunication and banishment by the Prelates of Antichrists Church and Princes thrall vnto the same it ought to be no more preiudice to the preachers of the Gospell now then the condemnation of the high priestes of Pilate and Herod was to the author of the Gospell of olde As for miracles they are not to be required where the same doctrine is taught which so long agoe hath beene confirmed by the miracles of Christ and his Apostles and those fables of raising vp dead men by Caluine and others are like the tales of Robin Good-fellow which are reported to be done in so many places that no wise man thinketh them to be done in any Next this followeth a wholl floode of tedious rhetoricall railing in generall accusations of schisme heresie tumulis sedition rebellion contempt of Princes and lawes order and honestie At length he desireth to be excused of his bitternes in respect of the cursed mouthes of them which raile against Princes and Prelates Yet bringeth no example but of Luthers penne whome many men wish in deede to haue vsed a more temperate stile sometime especiallie against Princes temporall estates and he himselfe did openlie acknowledge his faulte therein especiallie his immoderate inuection against King Henrie the 8. But as For the Pope and his wicked cleargie of heretikes the vngodlie enemies of Christ and his Gospell it were a hard matter to exceede measure in vehemencie against them so lies slaunders be alwaies auoided If Luther saied that the Turke in suffering all religions is wiser then Popish Princes in persecuting the gospell I see not that his saying is greatlie to be misliked For it is more wisedome to follow Gamaliels councell in letting all alone then to fight against god against whome they are sure not to preuaile That Luther diswaded al men to obey the vngodlie decree of the Emperour proclaimed at Wormes who can iustlie be offended which knoweth that the obedience to Princes may not be yealded with manifest disobedience vnto God But here a great matter Luther saied in hearing of the Emperour at Wormes vpon those wordes of our Sauiour Christ in the Gospell I came not to send peace but the sword That it ought to be a thing wished for as moste acceptable to Christistian men and especiallie vnto him that strife and contention should rise and grow about the worde of God The witnes of this report is Lindane who farseth his Dialogues of dubitantius with al manner of fables that he can heare sounding to the discredit of Luther and the Protestants Although I see not what great harme should be in these words being vnderstood according to the saying of our sauiour Christ that seeing all men will neuer agree to imbrace the word of God it were to be wished that many men would contend against the impugners for it then that al men should agree to withstand it But Luther is charged to haue set out to the view of the wholl worlde seditious and heresicall bookes wherein he laboured to abolish all due obedience and to perswade the people torebellion robbing murth er sacking and burning of Citties and Churches I hope there is no man so farre caried beyond all iudgement of reason that he will beleeue this slaunder to be true seeing it is not possible that such a monster as he faineth him to be should haue beene so much fauoured and cherished by Princes and estates as Luther was Neuerthelesse you shall heare his proofes First Wicelius Luthers enemie reporteth that he saied that men should wash their handes in the bloode of the Romish cleargie If this reporte were true it prooueth not the former accusation For allbeit the Popish cleargie were all slaine by lawfull authoritie in detestation of there blasphemie and idolatry The gouernment both of the Church and common wealth should neuer the more decay but how are we bound to beleue Wicelius without proofe in this or in any other matter Then saith Frarine he affirmed in his writinges that it was the verie nature of the Gospell to mooue and stirre vp warre sedition that there ought to be no Magistrate no superiour at all among Christian men For which he quoteth Epist. ad frat infer Ger. which is an impudent fiction For he neuer writte anie such epistle or taught anie such doctrine but the cleane contrarie of the necessitie of Magistrates in al Christian common wealths Secondlie he chargeth him to haue written lib. de Potest seculari that men ought to pray to God that the vplandish men obey not their Princes nor goe to warre against the Turke the title of which booke finde not in his workes And sure I am no such matter is conteined in anie booke of what title soeuer but contrariwise he writeth many treatises against the rebellious Bowres verie earnestlie condemning their disobedience and sedition Thirdlie he quoteth lib. contr duo edict Caesaris that men shoulde contribute nothing towardes the charges of the warres against the Turke which is malitiouslie construed as though he denied tribute to the Emperour whereas he commendeth the iudgemét of the slates of Germany which when the Emperour would yelde nothing to their requestes for the libertie of religion denied to graunt him a subsidie or contribution which he required vnder a pretence to resist the Turke when his purpose seemes rather to be bent against the French King and perhaps euen against them whose monie he defireth to be giuen him He warneth them also that they attempt not rashly to warre vpon the Turke who in councell and moderation doth farre excell these Princes and liuing as they did might hope of no victory Forthlie he noteth lib de bello contra Turcam and Luther assert artic 24 that it was not lawfull for Christian men to warre against the Turke and whosoeuer did fight against the Turke fought against Gods punishment Whereas Luthers meaning was in anie such writings that those Christians which were vnder the Turkes dominion and had free libertie of there religion should not rebell against him although they were otherwise grieuouslie oppressed Last of all he alledgeth out of his booke de 〈◊〉 Babil that neither man nor angell had anie authoritie at all to make anie law or one syllable whereunto Christian men should be bound to obey more or longer then it pleaseth them For we are said
for the warre of the Heluetians it is a wonder to see how he termeth it sedition and insurrection stirred vp by Zuinglius whereas it is certaine that the fiue Cantones of the Popish faction by intollerable iniurie prouoked them of Zurek and Bernes to lawfull warres whose cause if it had bene neuer so vniust yet might it not be termed insurrection because they were states of themselues and ought no obedience to the other The rebellion of Wiat and practises to kill Queene Marie were neuer allowed by the teachers of the gospell in England And Knookes his booke was misliked and forbidden to be solde euen at Geneua where it was put in print But the Pope the head of the Popish faction hath not onelie 〈◊〉 vp rebellion against the moste honourable Prince of Europe Queene Elizabeth in England but also hath sent his standard and Souldiers to inuade her dominions in Ireland And to omitt the traiterous writing of Saunder Bristow what is more vile then that beastlie Bull of Pius the fiste against our saide moste noble soueraigne confirmed by that hypocrite which now sitteth in the chayre of Pestilence at Rome with a faculty graunted to Parsones and Campiane by which he licenseth the Papists to dissemble their obedience vntill publike execution of that Bull maie be had that is to be priuie Traitours till with hope of successe they maie be open rebells The Scottish Queenes behauiour hath so much dishonoured her Person that Frarine is to be pardoned if he spake any thing in her praise before the vttermost of her reproch was made manifest to the worlde The rebellion of the gentlemen in Sueuia and of the commons in Denmarke I passe ouer as Frarine doth seing if it were vnlawfull our religion alloweth it not if it were vpon iust cause and by sufficient authoritie it is vniustlie called rebellion and vprore But he cannot omitt the late treason and cruell conspiracie of the Hugonites in Fraunce whereof Caluin was dictatour and generall Beza lieuetenant Othomannus and Spisamius petie captaines whoe can refraine laughing to heare these pleasant deuises but least you should thinke he iested he saith these were the chiese doers indeed though they vsed the names and seruice of certaine of the Nobilitie to beare out the brunte whilest they slept as the Knaues in the stocke and as for the other they were but their trumping cardes Such pesantes he maketh all the Princes and Noblemen which tooke armes to deliuer the King and his Mother from captiuitie his lawe from oppression and his subiects from cruell murther and tyrannie Yet he confesseth this tragedie had a peaceable beginning for they gat a lawe by force and extorsion saith he against the King and Magistrates will and pleasure Marke how probablie he speaketh A lawe was made whereunto none gaue assent that had authoritie to make a lawe But their consent was enforced for the Parliament of Paris made answere at the first we cannot we will not we ought not But afterward they were compelled to let the bill passe and so the edict of Ianuarie was made Here is force here is extorsion and compulsion alledged to elude the authoritie of the lawe but by what persons what meanes and in what manner it is not shewed in one word And indeed it is vnpossible to be shewed that neuer was for in truth the edict was made by the consent of the three estates in Fraunce in time of peace when their was not so much as any feare or suspition of warre but of policie to maintaine peace and to auoide all troubles that might insue thorough controuersie of religion The quiet and peaceable behauiour of the Protestantes in the conference at Poysie was so notorious that our Oratour being not able to denie it saieth it was dissembled that they might more easilie obtaine a lawevnder shadowe whereof they might banish all lawe and religion out of the world roote out all ciuill order and pollicie of all temporall affaires out of all Christian realmes countries cites A moste wicked purpose But howe is it prooued First they made a conspiracy to robbe spoile al the Churches in Fraunce in one night witnes hereof Claudius de sanctes a man verie like to be made priuie of such a conspiracie an vtter enemie of all true religion and the professors thereof But the execution in Gascoine and diuers other places doe testifie of this conspiracie Indeede by some more zealous then wise at Turon and Bloise the Popish Churches were bereued of their Idolls which fact because it was contrary to the edict the prince of Condie forthwith gaúe charge to the kinges officers that the authors thereof should be diligentlie sought out and seuerlie punished according to the edict Cōpare with this fact the horrible murther of the faithfull by the Guisians at Vassie by which the edict was first broken whereas these men in time of the warre without the hurte of anie mans person did onely breake a fewe stockes and stones by which God was dishonered Neuerthelesse the punishment of the offenders confuteth the pretended conspiracie which to saie the truth hath not so much as the shadowe of trueth in it For how was it possible for them to spoile all the Churches of Fraunce in one night where they were not of power to spoile the tenth part if they had so cōspired But it is a greater matter which followeth that at Challone in Burgundie they made a Synodicall decree that euerie man should endeauour to his power to driue three vermines out of Christendome The Church of Rome the Nobilitie the publique order of iustice And this if you denie saith he your names are to be seene yet in the recordes of the high court of Parliament at Paris where manie of you were accused for it by the rulers and estates of Burgondie A sufficient proofe no doubt that the names of them that were accused are extant in recorde It is sufficient proofe among the Papists that men be accused and that by their malitious aduersaries yea the verie accusation is a condemnation But it seemeth the Parliament of Paris had more regard of lawe and iustice then to giue sentence against them vpon a bare accusation for if it be sufficient to accuse no man shall be innocent If the court had condemned them he would haue alledged the sentence and lawfull processe remaining in record against them But almightie God knoweth that the Protestantes haue not onelie bene free but haue alwaies abhorred such Anabaptisticall conclusions and laboured by al meanes to establish the authoritie and obedience due vnto Princes which the Pope by his pretended supremacie shamefullie vsurpeth against them as though the charge of feeding spirituall gouernment were graunted onelie to the Pope by those wordes of Christ to Peter Or if it were that vnder colour of feeding and spirituall gouernment he had authoritie to commaund Princes at his pleasure yea to commaund their crownes of their heades and their scepters out
Magistrates selling of townes spoiling the countrie pulling downe of Churches giuing the spoill to straungers prophaning of Churches with his whores and laying vp of armour and lodging of soldiers robbing of all Churches in which he came is nothing but generall slaundering vnworthie of any wise mans answer other then a flat general denial of al. In like manner that he saith was reported vnto him by Caluines schoolefellowes in lawe that he stole the 〈◊〉 crosse and vestimentes which were committed to his custodie when he departed from Orleanes is thorougly confuted by the publike decree of the vniuersity wherby the degree of doctorship was freely offered vnto him at his departure and by his continuance afterward in diuers Vniuersities of Fraunce where this sacriledge should haue bin required at his hands if euer any such had bene Also that Beza in Champanie tooke many Priestes prisoners sat in iudgement vppon them condemned some to dongeons some to be hanged some to be burned other to be beheaded so that his mouth was sprinkeled with the bloode and braines of those that were murdered at his feete Is any man so madde that he will beleeue it That many priestes were slaine in time of that warre it is not altogether vnlike For the enemies spared not to murder the preachers of the gospel moste cruellie wheresoeuer they found them yet of certaine and true reporte we heare not of many beside those two which were hanged at Orleans of which Parson Guisent beeing a cruell in quisitor had cast the president of Orleanes in prison and they both had beene extreame persecutors of the Gospell in time of Popish tyrannie Yet had not this example of seueritie beene shewed vpon them if the Papists by hanging vp of Augustine Marlorate and other learned and Godlie preachers at Rone after they were taken prisoners contrarie to the law of armes had not inforced the Prince and estates vnto this warlike kind of reuenge vpon two which had well deserued it to teach them to vse more clemencie toward such of the religion as might afterward happe to fal into their handes What outrage soeuer was committed by the Soldiers without commaundement and consent of the Princes and Captaines no wise man will impute to the wholl state of Protestantes as Frarine doth and yet he bringeth nothing but flying tales such as in time of warre are blowne abroad on both sides I haue giuen some diligence to enquire of them which liued in Fraunce at that time and they can saie nothing that they heard of anie such examples of barbarous cruelty committed by the Soldiers of the Protestants campe as Frarine hath heaped together except the reporte of one which made him a chaine of Priestes cares who for his crueltie when he required to be of the Church of Geneua was not receiued yet it followeth not that he killed all those Priestes whose eares he cut of Neuertheles they confesse that although the discipline of warre was as well looked vnto as in that state of thinges it could be yet manie things were done by vnrulie Soldiers which neither the captaines nor the Preachers could thinke well of If anie that fled out of Orleans to carrie newes to the enemies were hardlie dealt with all it is the lesse maruaile seing within the citie keeping them-selues quietlie they might haue continued without anie man hurting them as a great number of the Popish priests liued there euen to the end of the warre whereby it appeareth that those reportes of crueltie deserue lesse credit that Priestes were dragged with ropes about their neckes in the streete bound to trees and shot at with gunnes for exercise that their guttes were wound about a staffe and drawne out of their bellies and cast about the house that they were hanged vpon the roode in the Church that their eies were put out their noses cut of the toppes of their fingers cut of the skinne of their crownes pared their priuie members cut of rosted they compelled to eate them afterwards their bellies ripped to see how they could digest such meate and such like monstrous inuentions which if they had bin true should haue found some Papist of Fraunce that would haue committed them to writing set them forth with all the circumstances that they should not stand vpon the onelie light report of an Orator of Louane who bringeth no testimonie but report of one prebendarie of the Cathedrall Church of Orleans whose name he hath forgotten which laie hidde in a bench hole and through the chinkes of the bench saw while the butchers cut of a priests members pulled out his guttes and cast his entralles all about the house But what if the poore prebendarie was so ouercome with feare that he imagined he saw through the narrowe creuisses that which was neuer done nor intended For what similitude of truth hath it that the souldiers would so beraie that house with blood and bowells wherein they themselues lodged peraduenture a hogge or some other beast was killed dressed for the Souldiers supper which he in the bench hole thought to be the Curate of the towne The cutting of litle children in peeces at one stroake with a sword the burning of children in a Church at Patte not farre from Orleans who will thinke they were like to be true when Baldwine in his inuectiue against Beza could finde no such matter to obiect vnto him although he obiected a great manie thinges more then were true But these and such matters if they had beene committed as they are impudentlie fained by barbaous and outragious souldiers why shoulde the reformers of religion beare the blame of them you will saie perhaps they should reteine no soldiours of so cruell and wicked a disposition and certaine it is that willinglie and wittinglie they did not but such is the necessitie of warre that souldiors be not alwaies saints Dauid for his necessarie defense was faine to reteine such as came vnto him which as the scripture describeth them were scarse honest men but a sight of male contents which for debt and desertes could not abide to ta rie in their countrie And yet was Dauid the lords annointed and vsed that bande both for his owne defence for annoiance of his enemies and for obtaining of his right in the kingdome Let not the crueltie therefore outrage of souldiers if any such were as none is prooued be obiected against the preachers and procurers of reformation Other dammages and losses he rehearseth the rasing of the Kings house and diuerse Churches in Orleanes filling vp the ditches throwing downe the bulwarkes making the walles plaine and passable destroying the suburbs and vines about the citie All which things who is so madde that he will not acknowledge to be the act of their enemies for the moste part except that the necessitie of warre requireth some places in such townes to be rased for fortification He cōplaneth of the Image tombe of king Lewis the eleuenth broken downe his