saw the evill that came upon the place Besides these learned Trium virs there lived in this age Theodoret bishop of Cyrus a towne in Syria Cyrill bishop of Alexandria Leo the great and Gelasius bishops of Rome Vincentius Lirinensis a great impugner of Heresies as also Sedulius of Scotland whose Collections are extant upon Saint Pauls Epistlâ—s and his testimonies frequently cited by the learned L. Primate Doctour Vsher in his Trâ—atise of the ancient Irish Religion Oâ— the Scâ—iptures sufficiencie Saint Augustine saith In those things which are layd downe plainely in the Scriptures all those things are found which appertaine to faith and direction of life Bellarmine would shift off this place by saying That Austine meant that in Scripture are contayned all such points as are simply necessary for all to wit the Creed and the Commandements but beside these other things necessary for Bishops and Pastors were delivered by tradition but this stands not with Austines drift for in the Treatise alleadged de Doctrinâ— Christianâ hee purposely instructeth not the people but Christian Doctors and Teachers so that where he saith In the Scriptures are plainely set downe all things which containe Faith Hope and Charity he meaneth as elsewhere hee expresseth himselfe all things which are necessarily to bee believed or done not onely of the Lay people but even of Ecclesiastickes In like sort the same father saith Those things which seemed sufficient to the salvation of believers were chosen to bee written Vincentius Lirinensis saith that the Canon or Rule of Scripture is perfect abundantly sufficent in it selfe for all things yea more than sufficient neither is this a false supposall as a Iesuit pretends it to be but a grounded truth and the Authors doctrine Liâ—inensis indeed maketh first one generall sufficient Rule for all things the sacred Scriptures Secondly another usefull in some cases onely yet never to be used in those cases without Scriptures which is the Tradition of the Vniversall Church and generall consent of Fathers The first was used by the ancient Church from the worth that is in it selfe the other is used to avoyd the jarring interpretations of pervâ—rse Heretikeâ— that many times abuse the sacred Rule Standard of the Scripture Now we admit the Churches Interpretation as ministeriall to holy Scripture so it be conformable thereunto And wee say with the learned Rejoynder to the Iesuit Malounes Reply Bring us now one Scripture expounded according to Lirinensis his Rule by the Vniversall consent of the Primitive Church to prove Prayer to Saints Image worship in your sense and we will receive it Saint Cyril saith that All things which Christ did are not written but so much as holy writers judged sufficient both for good manners and Godly faith And in another place he saith The holy Scripture is sufficient to make them which are brought uâ— in it wise and most approved and furnished with most sufficient understanding Saint Hierome reasoneth Negatively from the Scriptures saying As we deny not those things that are written so we refuse those things that are not written That God was borne of a Virgin we believe because we reade it That Mary did marry after shee was delivered we beleeve not because we reade it not Saint Chrysostome saith that All those things that are in holy writ are right and cleere that Whatsoever is necessarie is manifest therein yea he calleth the Scripture The most exact Balance Square and Rule of Divine veritie This was the Fathers Rule of Faith of old and the same a perfect one but the Papists now adayes make it but a part of a Rule halfe a Rule and piece it with Tradition Of the Scripture Canon Saint Hierome who was well skilled in the tongues travailed much and saw the choycest Monuments of Antiquitie as also the best Libraries that the Easterne Parts could afford and was therefore likely to meete with the best Canon nameth all the Bookes which we admit and afterwards addeth Whatsoever is besides these is to be put amongst the Apocrypha and that therfore the Booke of Wisedome of Iesus the Sonne of Syrach of Iudith Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon The same Hierome having mentioned the Booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus and delivered his opinion that it is untruly called the Wisedome of Salomon and attributed to him then addeth That as the Church readeth Iudith Tobias and the Maccabees but receiveth them not â—or Canonicall Scriptures so these two Bookes â—amely the Wisedome of Salâ—mon and Iesus the Sonne of Syrach doth the Church reade for the edification of the pâ—ople not to confirme the authority of any doctrine in the Church Objection The Carthaginian Councel received those Books which you account Apocryphall Answer They received them in Canonem Morum not in Canonem Fidei It is true indâ—ed that Saint Austine and the African Bishops of his time and some other in that Age finding these Bookes which Hierome and others rejâ—ct as Apocryphall to be joyned with the other and together read with them in the Church seeme to account them to be Canonicall but they received them onely into the Ecclesiasticke Canon serving for Example of life and instruction of manners and not into any part of the Rule of Faith or Divine Canon as Saint Austine speaking of the Bookes of the Maccabees distinguisheth saying This reckoning is not found in the Canonicall Scriptures but in other Bookes as in the Maccabees plainely distinguishing betweene the Canonicall Scriptures and the Bookes of the Maccabees Wherein saith he There may be something found worthy to be joyned with the number of those miracles yet hereof will we have no care for that we intend the miracles Divini Canonis which are received in the Divine Canon Of the booke of Iudith he tels us The Iewes never received it into the Canon of Scriptures and withall there he professeth That the Canon of the â—ewes was most Authenticall Touching the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus he tels us that They were called Salomons onely for some likâ—nâ—sse of Stile but the Learned doubt whether they bâ—e his Lastly the Councel of Carthage whereat Saint Austine was present Prescribing that no bookes should be read in the Church as Canonicall but such as indeed are Canonicall leaveth out the booke of Maccabees as it appeareth by the Greeke Edition though they have shuffled them into the Latine which argueth suspicion of a forged Canon Now to this ancient evidence of Hierome and Austine the Papists make but a poore Reply Canus saith that Hierome is no rule of Faith and that the matter was not then sufficiently sifièd Bellarmine saith I admit that Hierome was of that opinion because as yet a Generall Councel had decreed nothing touching those bookes and Saint Austin might likewise doubt thereof so that by Bellarmines confession Hierome
a thing remarkable in Scotus although he doth not approve the same Cassander saith It is sufficiently manifest that the Vniversall Church of Christ untill this day and the Westerne or Romane Church for more then a thousand yeares aftâ—r Christ did exhibit the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church at least in publike as it is most evident by innumerable testimonies both of Greeke and Latine Fathers So that the barring of the Lay-people of the Cup came not into the Church by any publike decree till the Councel of Constance which was held in the yeare 1414 some two hundred yeares agoe Fisher Bishop of Rochester saith that of Purgatorie there is very little or no mention amongst the ancient and that the Grecians doe not believe it to this day In like sort their Latine service which Pope Vitalian brought in is not of Primitive antiquitie for it was not generally put upon the Church until the yeare 666. which is the number of the name of the beast mentioned in the Apocalypse Revel 13.18 and found out by Irenaeus to arise out of the numerall letters of the word Lateinos now this name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wel suites with the Pope whose Faith and Church is the Romish or Latine Church and his publike Service in Latine and his translation of Scripture in Latine Now touching prayer to Saints It is true that such as had lapsed and fallen in time of persecution were wont to implore the prayers of Maâ—tyrs and Confessours imprisoned for the Gospel that by their interceding for thâ—m they might procure some ease or relaxation of such canonicall censures as were enjoyned them by the Church Cyprian was of opinion that the Saints aftâ—r death remembred theiâ— old friends here as having takâ—n fresh and particular notice of their severall states votes and necessities and hence grew that compact betwixt Cyprian and Cornelius that whether of them went to heaven before the other he should pray for his surviving friend Now this soliciting of Martyrs before their deaths brought in the next Age a custome to call upon them after their deaths yet so as they did not directly invote them For so it was for the better preservation of the memory of Saints and Martyrs they had their Commemoration dayes and were wont to meet at the Tombes and Monuments of Martyrs where they kept their anniversary and yearely solemnities and made speeches in their praise and commendations and in these their orations they spoke to the deceased as if they had beene living and present there but these were onely straines of rhetoricke Figures and Apostrophee's rather Declamationes rhetorum flowers of rhetoricke than Definitiones Theologorum decisions of Divines In this kind Gregorie Nazianzene saith Heare O thou soule of great Conâ—â—antius if thou hast any understanding of these things and as many soules of the Kings before him as loved Christ. The like he hath in his funerall oration which he made upon his Sister Gorgonia where he speakes thus unto her If thou hast any care of the things done by us and holy soules receive this honour from God that they have any feeling of such things as these receive this oration of ours in stead of many and before many funerall obsequies He speakes doubtfully and faintly If thou hast any sense or apprehension hereof and if you be affected with these things it seemeth hee thought that the defunct had not ordinarily notice of things done on earth neither will it serve to say as Bellarmine doth that Si is not dubitantis but affirmantis not a terme of doubting but of asseveration as that of Saint Paul If thou count me therefore a partner receive him as my selfe For there is no man but if he reade these places unpartially Heare if there be any sense and Heare if God grant it as a priviledge to soules deceased to have sense of these things but he will conceive that Si is not put for For or quoniam or as a note of affirming but as a note of doubt at least in the parties that spake it Hitherto the Saints were rather Vocati called unto as comprecants to joyne their prayers with the living than Invocati Directly called upon or prayed unto yet in processe of time the prayers made to God to heare the Intercessions of the Saints were changed into prayers to the Saints to heare our intercessions themselves For wee deny not but that among the ancient writers there are some places found which speake of the Intercession of the Saints there are also wishes found that were made by living men that the Saints would pray for them but this is not the difference betwixt us whether the Saints pray for us but whether wee must pray unto and call upon them for wee grant that the Saints in heaven doe pray for Saints on earth in generall according to the nature of communion of Saints but their intercession for us in generall will not inferre our invocation of them in particular There are also in ancient Writers pâ—rticular examples to bee found of some that ouâ— of their owne private devotion have called upon Saints but thiâ— cannot raise up a tenet in Religion to bind the Church either for doctrine or practice for what one or two shall doe carried away with their owne devout affection having zeale hap'ly not according to knowledge is not straight way a Ruâ—e of the Church nor one of the Churches Agends The thing wee stand upon is this that there were not any Collects nor set formes nor any diâ—ect Invocation of Saints put into the Common-service and publicke Liturgie of the Westerne Church untill the dayes of Gregory the Great or there abouts sixe hundred yeares after Christ so that their Saint-invocation is not so ancient as they would beare the world in hand In a word there is much difference betweene the ancients and moderne Romists herein for in the compellations which the ancients used they pleaded onely Christs merits making the Saints high in Gods favour competitioners to the throne of grace with the Saints living on earth but not content herewith the Schooles afterwards held meritorious Invocation of Saints wherein the Saints owne merits were brought in and pleaded Wee pray unto the Saints saith the Master of the Sentences That they may intercede for us that is to say That their merits may helpe us and Biel speakes to the same effect THE SIXTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 500. to 600. PAPIST WWhat say you of this sixth age PROTESTANT Quod dies â—egat dies dabit what one age affords not another doth and dies dedit I trust wee have got the day in the two last justly stiled the learned Ages The Reader is not now in the close of the first 600 yeares to expect so full and frequent Testimonies as formerly such as wee find wee produce For God hath not left himselfe without witnesse Of
Fishers Relation of his third Conferâ—nce Vpon this very point saith hâ—e that we acknowlâ—dge An honest ignorant Papist may be saved they worke upon the advantage of our Charitie and their owne want oâ— it to abuse the weake but if they would speak truly and say many Protestants indeed conâ—esse there is salvation possible to bee attained in the Romane Church but yet the errours of that Câ—uâ—ch aâ—e so many and some such as weaken the foundation that it is very hard to goe that way to heaven especially to them that have had the truth manifested unto them the heart of this Argument were broken The force of this Argument lyes herein that wee and ouâ— advâ—rsaries consent that there is salvation to some in the Romane Church What would you have us an malicious at least as rash as your selves are to us and denye you so much as possibilitie of salvation if we should we might make you in some things straine for a proofe But we have not so learned Christ as either to returne evill for evill in this hâ—adie course or to deny salvation to some ignorant silly Soules who hold the foundation Christ Iesus and survey not the building But this was an old tricke of the Donaâ—ists who shut up the Church in Africke as they doe now in Rome and the Romane See For in the point of Baptisme Whether that Sacrament was true in the Catholicke Church or in the part of Donatus they exhorted all to bee Baptized among them Why Because both parts granted that Baptisme was true among the Donatists which that peevish sect most unjustly denied the sound part as Saint Austine delivers it I would aske now had not the Orthodoxe Bapâ—isme among them because the Donatists denyed it injuriously or should the Orthodoxe against truth hâ—ve denied Baptisme among the Donatists to cry quiâ—tance with them Besides what have they gained by some Protesâ—ants confession saying thaâ— some might be saved in the Romane Church this terme Might be Saved grâ—nts but a Possibilitie to some weâ—ke ones no sure or safe way to salvaâ—ion For a safe way they can hardly goe who pertinaciously adhere to their errours having sufficient meanes to be betâ—er informed Howsoever their reckonâ—ng is like to bee â—he heavier who for some by-respects oppose a knowâ—e truth which they either doe or might beleeve if their hearts were upright and not perversly obstinate and not onely so but draw other weâ—ke ones to their bent Saint Augustine saith There will be ever a difference betweene an Hereticke and a plaine well meaning man thâ—t is mis-led and bâ—leeves an Hereticke God pittieth the blind that would faine see and cannot but wiâ—l he pitty them that may see and will not that harden themselves in their affected wilfull blindnesse he delivered Ionas from dâ—owning in the bottome of the Sea will you plung your selves therefore to see if God will deliver you Because we grant saith that most learned Prelate Doctor Vsher that some may scape death in Cities and Streets inâ—ected with the Plaguâ— will you therefore be so foole hardy after warning givâ—â— of the present danger as to chuse to take up your lodging in a Pest-house if you doe we may well say in our Câ—arity Lord have mâ—rcie upon you but you may justly feare that you dangerously tempt the Lord to send you Strong delusion to beleeve a lye bâ—cause you received not the love of the truth to beleeve it Lâ—stly if we grant you a possibility of salvation and you deny the same to us which yet is not yours to give or to withhold â—hâ—s sheweâ—h not thaâ— you have moâ—e truth on your side than wee but rather that wee have more charity than you who without truth or modesty aâ— our learned Provâ—st of Queenes Colledge in Oxford hath showne in his Answer to Charity mistaken dare afâ—â—rme that Protestancie destrâ—yeth salvation Bâ—â— lâ—t nâ—t the Protestant bâ—e discouraged with this hâ—â—dy censure for wee are confident that the faith pâ—oâ—essed in the Church of England is the Catholike Oâ—thâ—doxe and saving â—aith and we can shew good â—eason â—oâ— it For to bâ—leeve the Scripture of the two Tâ—staments to bâ—lâ—â—ve the thâ—ee Câ—eeds in the sense of the ancient Pâ—â—â—itive Chuâ—ch to receive the foure great generall Counâ—â—ls so mâ—â—h magnified by antiquity to admit What ever the Fathers for the first five hundred yeares with joynt consent agreed upon to bee beleâ—ved as a necessary point 〈◊〉 salvation or at least-wise to bee humbly silent not presuming to condemne the same is a faith in which to live and die cannot but give salvation specially being accompaâ—ied with a godly life and a faithfull death Now whether it bee wisedome in such a point as Salvation is to forsâ—ke a Church in the which the gâ—ouâ—d of salvation is fâ—â—me to follow a Church in which it is possiblâ— oâ—e may bee saved but very probable one may doe woâ—sâ— if he looke not well to the foundation judge yeâ—â— I am sure Saint Augustine thought it waâ— not and judged it A great sinne in point of salvation for a man to preferr◠〈…〉 incertainties and naked â—osâ—ibilities bâ—fore an 〈◊〉 and certaiâ—e course Now this â—ulâ— of Saâ—nt Augustines makes for us for wee goe upon certâ—inâ—â—â—s anâ— walke in the Via tuâ—a the safe way â—s thâ—t leâ—rnâ—d Knight and my worthy good 〈…〉 hath showne at large 〈…〉 bâ—ene said the vanity of the 〈…〉 for as Master â—â—del saith in hi◠〈…〉 Wadâ—sworths motives by the 〈…〉 bâ—tter to have become a Iewish Proâ—elite iâ— thâ— Apoâ—â—les time then a Christian for the Christians acknowledged the Iewes to bee the people of God and sâ—iled them brethren notwithstanding their zeale to the Ceremonies and traditions of their Fathers excused their ignorance and baâ—e with â—hem Whereas on the contrary they called those that professed Christ Heretikesâ—nd â—nd Sâ—ctaries accursed thâ—m drew them out of their Synagogues imprisoned them as you doe now the Protestants By like reason a Pagan in Saint Augustines time should rather have made himsâ—lfe a Christian among the Donatists then with the Catholikes For as it is already noted the Catholikes granted the Donatists Baptisme to be true and accounted them breâ—hren the Donatists on the contrary renounced their brother-hood and baptisme both rebaptized such as fell to their side used these formes of speech to their friends Save thy soule become a Christian like to those termes used by our Romish Reconcilers at this day PA. Prove what you say that in poynt of Religion you goe the safe way PRO. This appeares to be true in that divers of your side the moderate and sober sort at least doe oftentimes grant our Conclusions and that in sundry things our course is the safer As in making no Image of God In trusting onely in the merits of Christ. Iâ— worshipping none but the Trinity In directing our pâ—ayers to our Lord Iâ—sus Christ alone In allowing
affection as the Scriptures are to be reverenced Is not this to minglâ— water with wine base mettall with good Bullion and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture Besides you have which is fearefull detracted from Gods Word thaâ— which was written with his owne finger to wit the second Commandement against the worship of Images and because the words thereof are sharpe and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes Prayer bookes and in your Office of the blessed Virgin set foorth by commaund of Pius Quintus and to salve up the matter lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements you have cut the tenth into two You might well have left the words â—here that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement howsoever they had counted it the first or the second Now as you have detracted so you have added to the rule of Faith by thrusting into the Canon the Apocryphall bookes which Hierome the best languaged of all the Father rejected Lastly you doe not only allow but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture to wit the vulgar Latine Edition whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals Now surely wee may better trust an originall Record than a Copie extracted thence and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head than at a corrupt and muddie streame Now the Latine Edition which you follow and preferre before all others it is but a Translation it selfe but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow are the Well-springs and Originalls Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture to bind all men as your Trent Councell doth that none dare presume to reject this Translation which by your owne men is confessed not to be Saint Hierâ—mes and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side PA. I looke to have your Professors named PRO. Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred and made away returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library and elsewhere and wee accept your challenge But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named and why so the true Church of God may bee visible though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed there might be thousands of professors in former ages and yet happily no particular authentick Record of their names now extant or if extant yet so as we cannot come by them Neverthelesse to answere you at your owne weapon I hope to make it cleare that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth that are ready to be deposed on our side and that successively from age to age so that I may say as Saint Ambrose did in the like case You may well blot out our Letters but our Faith you shall never abolish Papists may conceale our evidence and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records but when all is done the Protestants faith is perpetuall Now in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie we doe not this as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adveâ—saries For it is Tertullians Rule that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles Now what though we could noâ— successively name such as taught as we doe yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught and Christ would have to be perpetuall this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors Now that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof I will beginne with the fiâ—st 600. yeares next after Christ wherein ten severall times during the fiâ—st three Centuries the Church was persecuted by Tyrants and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes yet in the end Truth prevailed against Error and Patience overcame her Persâ—cutors This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell challenged the Papists to shew any Orthodoxe Father Councell or Doctor that for the space of those 600 Yeares taught as the present Church of Rome did the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend that worthy Divine Doctor Featly of Oxford challenging the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors any Citie Parish or Hamlet within 500. yeares next after Christ wherein there was any visible assembly that maintained in generall the Articles of the Trent Councell or such and such points of Popery as at the Conference hee named in particular Now of this period the first 300. yeares thereof were the very flower of the Primitive Church because that in theâ—e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught by Christ and his Apostles and that in their owne persons as also by otheâ—s that lived to heare see and converse with those blessed Apostles and disciples of Christ Iesus and this haply made Egesippus an ancient Authour call the Church of those dayes an uncorrupt and virgin Church and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up neither indeed for the space of these first 300 could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched their purgatory fire was yet unkindled it made not as afterwards their pot boyle and their kitchin smoake the Masse was yet unmoulded Transubstantiation was yet unbaked the treasury of Merits was yet unminted the Popes transcendent power was uncreated Ecclesiastickes were unexempted and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup Communion under one kinde was not yet in kinde it was not then knowne that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god they worshipt that which they knew and that in Spirit and truth and they called on him in whom they beleeved so did they and so doe wee In a word in the former ages of the Church Satan was bound after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed and after the middle of the second Millenary about the yeare 1370 hee was bound anew Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares it grew very corrupt so that of these times we may say as Winefridus borne at Kirton in Devonshire after surnamed Boniface was
to them nor worship them saith also thou shalt not make to thy selfe any graven Image PRO. Our learned Bishop White hath answered for 〈◊〉 the Ground and Proposition of this argument saith he is falâ—e for worshipping of Images is forbidden as the principall object of that negative precept and as a thing Morally evill in his very kind but making them is forbidden onely when it is a meanes subservient to worship and because it may be separated both in his owne nature and in mans intention from that end and use therefore the one is simply forbidden and the othâ—r is onely prohibited when it becommeth a meanes or instrument to other for we mislike not pictures or Images for historicall use and ornament now this distinction and disparitie betweene making and woâ—shipping is comfirmed by the example of the â—razen Serpent made by Gods owne appointment for when the same was onely made and looked upon it was a Medicine when it was worshipped it bâ—came a poyson and was destroyed To proceedâ— the Church of Rome holds that the Saints raigning with Christ are to be worshipped and prayâ—d unto but this we hold is not warranted by Gods word but rather repugnant to it for we are commanded to invocate God in the name of Christ and our Saviour himselfe inviteth us to approach with confidence to the throne of his grace he is rich in mercie to such as call upon him and more compassionate better able and more willing to helpe us than any Saint or Angel and he is appointed by God to be our Intercessour We reade in the new Testament many examples of people which made supplication immediately unto Christ but not of one which made intercession to the Virgin Mary or to the blessed Saints or Angels And if any question with this our negative concluding from Scripture Saint Hierome upon occasion did the like saying we beleeve it not because we reade it not I will close up this point with that advise which Ignatius gave the Virgins of his time not to direct their prayers and supplications to Saints or Angâ—ls but to the Trinity onely O ye Virgins have Christ alone before your eyes and his Father in your Prayers being enlightned by the spirit Of Faith and Merit The Trent Councâ—l accurseth all such as say that a siâ—ner is justified by Faith onâ—ly or deny that the good workes of holy men doe truly Merit everlasting life our reformâ—d Churches hold that wee are accounted righteous bâ—fore God onely for the Merit of Iesus Christ applyed by Faithâ— and not for our workes or Merits And when we say that we are justified by Faith onely we doe not meane that the said justifying Faith is alone in man without true repentance hope charity and the feare of God for such a Faith is dead and cannot justifie Even as when we say that the eye onely seeth wee doe not meane that the eye severed from the head doth see but that it is the onely propâ—rtie of the eye to see Neither doth this Faith of Christ which is within us of it selfe justifie us or deserve our justâ—fication unto us for that were to account our selves to be justified by the vertue or dignity of something within our selves but the true meaning therâ—of is that although we heare Gods Word and beleeve it although wee have Faith Hope Charity Repentance and the fâ—are of God within us yet we must renounce the Merit of all our vertues and good deedes as farre too weake and unsufficient to deserve remission of our Sinnes and uâ— justification and therefore we must trust onely in Gods mercie and the Merits of our only Saviour and justiâ—ier Iesus Christ. Neverthelesse because Faith doth directly send us to Christ for our justification and that by Faith given us of God we embâ—ace the promise of Gods mercie and the remission of our Sinnes which thing none other of our vertues or workes properly doth therefore the Scripture useth to say that Faith without workes and the ancient Fathers of the Church to the same purpose that onely Faith doth justifie us Now for the Poynt of Merit it is neither agreeable to Scripture nor reason for we cannot Merit of him whom we gratifiâ— not we cannot gratifie a man with his owne now all our good is Gods already his gift his proprietie What have we that we have not received saith the Apostle not our Talent onely but the improvement also is his meere bounty there can be therefore no place for Merit PA. Wee hold the ancient Romane Faith PRO. That is not so as may appeare by these instances Saint Paul taught his Romanes that our Eleâ—â—ion is of Gods free grace and not ex operibus praevisis of workes fore-seene He taught that we are justified by Faith onely we conclude that we are justified by Faâ—th without the workâ—s of the Law which is all one as to say a man is justified by Faith onely He taught that eternall life is the gift of God and therefore not due to the Merit of workes that the good workes of the Regenerate are not of their owne condignitie meritorious nor such as can deserve heaven and the sufferings there expressed are Maâ—tyrdomes sanctified by grace He condemned Images though made to resemble the true God and taught that to bow the knee religiously to an Image or to worship any creature is meère Idolatry He taught that we must not pray unto any but unto God onely in whom we beleeve and therefore not to Saints or Angels since we beleeve not in them He taught that concupiscence is a Sinne even in the regenerate and Possevine the Iesuit confesseth that Saint Paul called it so but saith he we may not call it so He taught that the Imputed righteousnesse of Christ is that onely that maketh us just before God Thus taught Saint Paul thus the ancient Romanes beleeved from this Faith our latter Romanists are departed Here then let the Reader judge whether it be likely that Saint Paul who as Theodoret saith delivered doctrine of all sorts and very exactly handled the Points thereof should neverthelesse writing at large to the Romane Church not once mention those maine points wherein the life of Poperie consists namely the Popes Monarchical Iurisdiction Transubstantiation Communion in one kinde Service in an unknowne tongue Popes pardons Image worship and the like if the Church of Rome were then the same that now a dayes it is Now if these points mentioned were no Articles of Faith in the ancient Romane Church in Saint Pauls dayes when their Faith was spoken of throughout the whole world then they be not Articles of Faith at this day but onely Additions to the rule of Faith such as the corruption of the times hath patched up and pieced it withall for it is a ruled case in the Schooles that the body of Religion
and Wine in the Sacrament of the Supper are made flesh and the bloud of Iesus in that same manner that the eternall Word of God was made flesh but so it is that the substance of the Divine nature neither evanished nor yet was changed into the substance of flesh and in like manner the Bread is made the Body of Christ neither by evanishing of the substance thereof nor yet by changing the substance thereof into another substance Iustine Martyr telleth us that the Bread and the Wine even that sanctified food wherewith our bloud and flesh by conversion are nourished is that which we are taught to be the flesh and bloud of Iesus incarnate Our Lord saith Clemens of Alexandria did blesse Wine when he said take drinke this is my bloud the bloud of the Vine Irenaeus saith that our Lord taking Bread of that condition which is usuall among us confessed it to be his Body and the Cup likewise containing that creature which is usuall among us his bloud so that in their construction it was Bread and Wine which Christ called his Body it was Bread in substance mateâ—iall Bread and the Body of the Lord in signification and Sacramentall relation The Lord called Bread his body now since Bread could not be his body substantially it must needs be it was onely his body Sacramentally Of Images and Prayer to Saints Concerning the use of Images we find that in these best ancient times Christians were so far from bringing them into their Churches that some of them would not so much as admit the Art it selfe of making them so jealous were they of the danger and carefull for the prevention of deceipt whereby the simple might any way be drawn on to the adoring of them we are plainly foâ—bidden saith Clemens Alexandrinus to exercise that deceitfull Art for the Prophet saith Thou shalt not make the likenesse of any thing either in the Heaven or in the Earth beneath Moses commandeth men to make no Image that should represent God by Art for in truth an Image is a dead matter formed by the hand of an artificer but we have no sensible Image made of any sensible matter but such an Image as is to be conceived with the understanding yea but thine Images are of Gold be it so now I pray thee what is Gold or Silver Iron Brasse Ivorie the Adamant Diamond or Precious Stones Are they not terra et ex terrâ are they ought but Earth and made of the Earth now being nothing else but a piecâ— of more refined Earth I have learned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 terram calcare non colere to walke on the Earth and not to worship it to set my foote on it not to bow my knee to it And thus farre Clement of Alexandria holding it a monstrous thing to bow downe to a stock or a stone Irenaeus reckons it among the abuses of the Gnostikes that they had certaine painted Images and others made of other stuffe saying that it was the Picture of Christ made by Pilate When the Emperour Adrian in favour of the Christians had commanded that in every City Churches should be built without Images which at this day are called Adrians Temples because they have no Gods in them which they said he made for that end to wit to pleasure the Christians it was presently conceived that he prepared those Temples for Christ as Aelius Lampridius noteh in the life of Alexander Severus which is an evident Argument that it was not the use of Christians in those dayes to have any Images in their Churches Learned Master Casaâ—bone in his notes upon this place of Lampridius thinketh that this story is rather to be referred to Tiberius the Emperour â—han to Hadrian and that Adrian causd Temples to be dedicated to his owne name and thâ—se Temples Adrian being prevented by death remained unfinished and without any Images at all whence it came to passe that many wâ—n thought that Adrian built those Temples not to himselfe but unto Christ and with these agreeth Lampridiusâ— as one who knew that which none could then be ignorant of that both the Iewes in the Temple at Hierusalem did worship God without Images and Pictures as both Strabo and Dio write and that in their dayes the Christian Churches were such as afterwards Saint Austine reports them to have beene in his dayes Saint Austin upon the hundred and thirteenth Psalme expounding those words of David that Idols have a mouth and speake not makes this objection that the Church hath also divers instruments and vessels made of gold and silver for the use of celebrating the Sacraments but he answers have these instruments mouths and speake not eyes and see not doe we addresse our prayers to them now surely he could not have spoken thus if he had Images in Churches or if Images had bin a part of the Churches Vtensils and moveables in his dayes Concerning Prayer to Saints Iustine Martyr Clemens Alexandrinus and Tertullian have reported the publike formes of Christian service and Religious excercises of the Primitive Christians and yet make no mention of Prayer to Saints or Angels but onely of Prayer directed to God in the name and mediation of Christ alone Irenaeus tels us that in his dayes the Church per universum mundum Irenaeusâ—aith â—aith not as Fevardentius and the Papists now a dayes would teach him that the Heretikes called upon false and imaginary Saints and Angels and the Church upon the true Saints and holy Angels but this he saith that the Church called upon God in Christ Iesus Eusebius in his Storie setteth downe Verbatim a long Prayer used by Polycarp the Martyr at the time of his suffering wherin if Invocation of Saints had beene reputed any part of Christian devotion in those dayes he would undoubtedly in so great perill and at his deaâ—h have recommended himselfe to God by the Prayers and Merits of Saints but his forme of Praier is Protestant-like tendered to God himselfe only by the mediation of Christ concluding his Prayer in this manner therefore in all things I Praise thee I blesse thee I Glorifie thee through the eternall Priest of our profession Iesus Christ thy beloved Sonne to whom with thee O Father and the Holy Ghost be all Glory now and for ever Amen When the people of the Church of Smyrna desired to have the body or bones of their Martyredâ— Bishop Polycarp to buriall the Iewes perswaded the Governour not to grant it for that then the Christians would leave Christ and worship the body of Polycarp to which surmise they reâ—urne this answer we can never be induced either to forsake Christ which hath suffered for all that are saved in the World 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or to worship any other for him being the Sonne of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wee adore him but the Martyrs as the
say the word of Christ is most efficacious to alter the propertie of naturall water and to give regenerating force and vertue to it Saint Ambrose saith that in Baptisme man is changed and made a new creature Learne saith he how the word of Christ is accustomed to change every creature and when he will he altereth the course of nature Saint Cyril saith the waters are changed into a divine nature And Gregorie Nazianzene saith that by Baptisme we put on Christ by Baptisme we are changed or transmuted into Christ. Now from hence we cannot infeâ—re that eiâ—her the water of Baptisme or regenerate persons are changed by Transubstantiation the change is not corporall in either of the Sacraments but mysticall in use and signification In the Church saith Macarius Scholler to Saint Anthonie bread and wine is offered the type of his flesh and bloud and they which are partakers of the visible bread doe Spiritually eate the flesh of the Lord. Now according to this Father bread and wine are taken bread and wine are offered and these be the types or tokens of the body and bloud and that they be so called after Consecration is likewise acknowledged by Bellarmine And we may farther observe that the words of Macarius are so cleere for the spirituall and not corporall receiving as that some were faigne to set a Marginall glosse upon Macarius his text Of Image-worship The Councel of Elliberis in Granado in Spayne decreed That no Pictures should or ought to be in the Church lest that which is worshipped or adored should be painted on walls Now it will not serve to say that the Councel onely forbad the painting of Images on Church-walls where in time of persecution or otherwise they might be defaced as if they might be set or hung in tables for the Councels decree runs generally saying It is our mind that Pictures ought not to be in the Church Now if it forbad the very being of them in Churches then surely it utterly condemned their adoration Melchior Canus chargeth this ancient Councel with impietie for making such a decree de tollendis Imaginibus Saint Ambrose saith God would not have himselfe worshipped in stones the Church knoweth no vaine Idaea's and divers figures of Images but knoweth the true substance of the Trinity The fact of Epiphanius which himselfe records in his Epistle to Iohn Bishop of Hierusalem translated by Saint Hierome out of Greek into Latine is very famous in this case namely how himselfe found a Picture in the Church of the village of Anablatha which though it were out of his owne Diocesse yet in an hoâ—y zeale he tore it and wrote to the Bishop of the place beseeching him that no such Pictures might bee hanged up as being contrary to Religion The words of Epiphanius are these I found there a vayle hanging at the doore of the Church dyed and painted and having the Image as it were of Christ or some Saint for I doe not well remember whose Image it was when therefore I saw this that contrary to the authority of the Scriptures the Image of a man was hanged up in the Church of Christ I cut it and gave counsel to the keepers of the place that they should rather wrap and burie some poore dead man in it and afterward hee intreateth the Bishop of Hierusalem under whose governement this Church was to give charge hereafter that such vayles as those which are repugnant to our Religion should not be hanged up in the Church of Christ. I know indeed that Iesuit Fisher would shuffle off this evidence by saying that it was the picture of some prophane Pagan bâ—t Epiphanius himselfe saith it had imaginem quasi Christi vel Sancti cujusdam the image as it were of Christ or of some Saint surely therefore the Image went for Christs or for some noted Saints neither doâ—h he finde fault with the irresemblance but with the Image as such Baronius saith they are rather the forged words of some Image-breakers than of Epiphanius Bellarmine would disproove them by sundry conjectures which Master Rivet rejects and defeâ—dâ— the foresayd Epistle of Epiphanius clearing it from all the Cardinal 's cavills aâ—d surely if we observe Epiphanius his practice about the foresayd Image and his Doctrine of Mariam nemo adoret we may well thinke these two had both one Father PA. The Idolatry forbidden in Scripture and disliked by the Fathers is such as was used by Iewes and Pagans and this wee Christians practise not PRO. Indeed the Apostle when hee disswadeth Christians from Idolatry propounds the Iewes fall saying Neither be yee Idolaters as some of them were 1 Cor. 10. 7 8. The like also hee addeth touching another sinne Neither let us commit fornication as some of them did as well then might one pleade that Iewish or Heathenish fornication were onely reprehended as Iewish or Heathenish Idolatry it being a foule sinne whether it bee committed by Iewe Pagan or Christian and more haynous in the Christian who professeth Christ to practise that which Gods word condemneth in the Iewes and Pagans for Idolatry PA. The Heathen held the Images themselves to be Gods which is farre from our thought PRO. Admit some of the simpler sort of the Heathen did so what shall wee say of the Iewish Idolaters who erected the Golden calfe in the wildernesse can wee thinke that they were all so sencelesse as to imagine that the calfe which they knew was not at all in rerum naturâ and had no being at that time when they came out of Aegypt should yet be that God which brought them out of Aegypt Exod. 32.4 And for the Heathen people though they haply thought some divine Majestie and power was seated in the Images yet they were scarcely so rude as to thinke the Images which they adored to be very God for thus we find them usually to answer in the writings of the Fathers Wee worship the Gods by the Images and I neither worship the Image nor a Spirit in it but by the bodily portraiture I doe behold the signe of that thing which I ought to worship PAP Though the Heathen did not account the Image it selfe to be God yet were those Images set up to represent either things that had no being or Devils or false-Gods and in that respect were Idols whereas we erect Images onely to the honour of the true God and of his servants the Saints and Angels PRO. Suppose that many of the Idolatrous Iewes and Heathens Images were such as you say they were yet they were not all of them such howsoever Idolatry is committed by yielding adoration to an Image of the true God himselfe as appeareth by the first Chapter of the Epistle to the Romanes where the Apostle having said that God shewed unto them that which might bee knowne of him and that the Invisible things of him that is his
of weake abilities and also for that they had made a booke which they called the everlasting Gospell whereunto they said Christs Gospell was not to be compared Pope Alexander the fourth was content upon complaint made unto him that the Friers booke should be burned provided that it were done covertly and secretly and so as the Friers should not be discredited thereby and as for William of Saint Amour hee dealt sharply with him commanding his booke to be burnt as also he suspended from their benefices and promotions all such as either by word or writing had opposed the Friers untill such time as they should revoke and recant all such speeches and writings at Paris or other places appointed so tender was his holines over the Friers credit and reputation knowing belike what service might be done to him and his successours by these newly errected orders of â—riers I call them newly erected for in the time of Pope Innocent the third about the yeare 1198 the Iacobites an order of preaching Friers were instituted by Saint Dominicke and about the beginning of this age the order of Franciscans preaching Friers Minors was instituted by Saint Francis borne at Assise a towne in Italy Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon SCoâ—us saith that supernaturall knowledge as much as is necessarie for a wayfaring man is sufficiently delivered in sacred Sâ—ripture Thomas Aquinas in his commentary upon that place of Saint Paul the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation that the man of God may be perfect 2 Timoth. 3.15.17 saith that the Scriptures doe not qualifie a man aâ—ter an ordinarie sort but they perfit him so that nothing is wanting to make him happy And accordingly Bonaventure saith The beneâ—it of sâ—ripture is not ordinarie but such as is able to make a man fully blessed and happy Hugo Cardinalis speaking of the bookes rejected by us saith These bookes are not received by the Church for proofe of doctrine but for information of manners Of Communion under both kindes and nâ—mber of Sacraments ALexander Hales howsoever he some way incline to that opinion that it is sufficient to receive the Sacrament in one kind yet he confesseth that there is more merit and devotion and compleatnesse and efficacie in receiving in both Againe hee saith Whole Christ is not sacramentally conteined under each forme because the bread signifieth the body and not the blood the wine signifieth the blood and not the body Concerning the Churches practise wee doe not finde that the lay people were as yet barred of the cup in the holy Sacrament for our Countrey-man Alexander Hales who flourished about the yeare of Grace 1240. saith that we may receive the body of Christ under the forme of bread onely sicut fere ubique fit à Laicis in ecclesiâ as it is almost every where done of the Laiety in the Church it was almost done every where but it was not done every where Concerning the Sacraments the Schoolemen of this age can hardly agree amongst themselves that there be seaven Sacraments properly so called Alexander of Hales saith that there are onely â—oure which are in any sort properly to be sayd Sacraments of the new Law that the other three supposed Sacraments had their being before but received some addition by Christ manifested in the flesh that amongst them which began with the new Covenant onely Baptisme and the Eucharist were instituted immediately by Christ received their formes from him and flowed out of his wounded side Touching Confirmation the same Alexander of Hales saith the Sacrament of Confirmation as it is a Sacrament was not ordained either by Christ or by the Apostles but afterwards was ordained by the Councell of Meldain France Touching extreame unction Suarez saith that both Hugo of Saint Victor in Paris and Peter Lombard and Bonaventure and Alexander of Hales and Altissidorus the cheefe schoolemen of their time denyed this Sacrament to be instituted by Christ and by plaine consequence saith he it was no true Sacrament though they were of opinion that a Sacrament might be instituted by the Apostles and therefore admitted not of this consequence Of the Eucharist COncerning the Eucharist Scotus saith that it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeved as concerning this coversion But principally this seemeth to move us to hold Transubstantiation because concerning the Saraments we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth And hee addeth wee must say the Church in the Creed of the Lateran councell under Innocent the third which begins with these words Firmiter credimus declared this sence concerning Transubstantiation to belong to the veritie of our faith And if you demaund why would the Church make choice of so difficult a sence of this Article when the words of the Scripture This is my Body might be upholden after an easie sence and in appearance more true I say the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them and so it is to be supposed that the catholike Church expounded them by the same spirit whereby the faith was delivered us namely being taught by the spirit of truth and therefore it chose this sence because it was true thus farre Scotus Let us now see what Bellarmie saith Scotus tells us saith he that before the Councell of Lateran which was held in the yeare one thousand two hundred and fifteene transubstantiation was not beleeved as a point of faith this is confessed by Bellarmine to be the opinion of Scotus onely he would avoyd his testimonie with a minime probandum est Scotus indeed saith so but I cannot allow of it and then hee taxeth Scotus with want of reading as if this learned and subtile Doctor had not seene as many Councels and read as many Fathers for his time as Bellarmine The same Bellarmine saith that Scotus held that there was no one place of scripture so expresse which without the declaration of the Church would evidently compell a man to admit of Transubstantiation and this saith the Cardinall is not altogether improbable It is not altogether improbable that there is no expresse place of Scripture to proove Transubstantiation without the declaration of the Church as Scotus sayd for although the Scriptures seeme to us so plaine that they may compell any but a refractary man to beleeve them yet it may justly be doubted whether the Text be cleare enough to enforce it seeing the most acute and learned men such as Scotus was have thought the contrary thus farre Bellarmine unto whom I will adde the testimonie of Cuthbert Tonstall the learned Bishop of Durham His words are these Of the manner and meanes of the Reall presence either by Transubstantiation or otherwise perhaps it had beene better to leave every man that would be curious to his owne conjecture as before the councell of Lateran it was left and Master Bernard Gilpin a man most holy and
renowned among the Northerne English and one that was well acquainted with Bishop Tonstall his kinsman and Diocesan saith I remember that Bishop Tonstall often tolâ—e me that Pope Innocent the third had done very unadvâ—sedly in that hee had made the opinion of Transubstantiation an Article of Faith seeing in former times it was free to holde or refusâ— that opinion The same Bishop tolde me and many time ingenuously confessed that Scotus was of opinion that the Church might better and with more ease make use of some more commodious exposition of those words in the holy Supper and the Bishop was of the minde that we ought to speake reverently of the holy Supper but that the opinion of Transubstantiation might well be let alone This thing also the same Bishop Tonstall was wont to affirme both in words and writings that Innocent the third knew not what he did when hee put Transubstantiation among the Articles of Faith and he said that Innocentius wanted learned men about him and indeed saith the Bishop if I had beene of his councell I make no doubt but I might have beene able to have disswaded him from that resolution By this that hath beene sayd it appeares that Transubstantiation was neither holden nor knowne universally in the Church before the Lateran Councell twelve hundred yeares after Christ and that when it began to be received as a matter of Faith it was but beleeved upon the Churches authoritie and this Church virtually and in effect was Pope Innocent in the Lateran Councell twelve hundred yeeres and more after Christ before which time there was no certaintie nor necessity of beleeving it and the Councell might have chosen another sence of Christs words more easie and in all appearance more true there being no scripture sufficient to convince it Of Images and Prayer to Saints HOnorius of Authun in France saith There is none that is godly wise who will worship and adore the Crosse but Christ crucified on the crosse Roger Hoveden our native historian who lived in the beginning of this age condemned the adoration of Images for speaking of the Synodall Epistle written by the Fathers of the second Nicen councell wherein Image worship was established he tells us that Charles the King of France sent into this Isle a Synodall booke directed unto him from Constantinople wherein there were divers offensive passages but especially this one that by the joynt consent of all the Doctors of the East and no fewer than 300 Bâ—shops it was decreed that Images should be worshipped quod ecclesia Dei execratur saith he which the Church of God abhorres Guilielmus Altissiodorensis saith that for such and such reasons many doe say that neither we pray unto the Saints nor they pray for us but improperly in râ—spect we pray unto God that the merits of the Saints may hâ—lpe us Of Faith and Merit THomas Aquinas saith that workes be not the cause why a man is just before God but rather they are the execution and manifestation of his justice for no man is justâ—fied by workes but by the Habit of Faith infused yea justâ—fication is done by Faith onely And Aquinas in his commentary on the Galatians in the place alleadged tho at the first he mention such workes as are performed by the power of nature yet afterwards he speakes also of workes wrought by the power of grace and of such as Saint Iames mentions Chap. 2. saying Was not Abraham justified by workes but these were workes of grace and yet Thomas excludes from justification workes done in the state of Grace and saith Iustification is done by Faith onely Bonaventure saith that by onely Faith in Christs passion all the fault is remitted and without the faith of hâ—m no man is justified Velosillus in his animadversions upon the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church observeth that Scotus held not merit of Condigâ—ity And Vega saith that Thomas Aquinas the flower of the Schoole-Divines constantly affirmeth that a sinner can not merit his owne justâ—fication either of congruity or of condignity and thus have these men given in their verdict but now let us heare themselves speake There is no action of ours saith Scotus that without the speciall ordinance of God and his divine acceptation is worthy of the reward with which God rewardeth them that serve him in respect of the inward goodnesse that it hath from the causes of it because alwayes the reward is greater than the merit and strict Iustice doth not give a better thing for a thing of lesse value And againe hee saith That speaking of strict Iustice God is bound to none of us to bestow rewards of so high perfection as hee doth the rewards being so much greater in worth than any merits of ours The Prophet David saith the learned Archbishop of Armagh hath fully cleared this case in that one sentence Psalm 62.12 With thee Oh Lord is mercy for thou râ—wardâ—st every man according to his workes Originally therefore and in it selfe this reward proceedeth meerely from Gods free bounty and mercy but accidentally in regard that God hath tyed himselfe by his word and promise to conferre such a reward it now provâ—th in a sort to be an act of Iustice in regard of the faithfull performance of his promâ—se For promise amongst honest men is counted a due debt but the thing promised being free and on our part altogether undeserved if the promiser did not performe and proved not to be so good as his word hee could not properly be sayd to doe us wrong but rather to wrong himselfe by impayring his owne credit And therefore Aquinas confesseth That God is not hereby simply made a debtor to us but to himselfe in as much as it is requisite that his owne ordinâ—nce should be fullfilled William Bishop of Paris treating of prayer giveth us this Caveat Not to leane on the weake and fraile foundation of our owne merits but wholly denying our selves and distrusting our owne strength to relye on the sole favour and mercy of God and in so doing sayth hee the Lord will never faile us Cassander saith That both ancient aâ—d moderne with full consent professe to reposâ— themselves wholly upon the meere mercy of God and merit of Christ with an humble renunciation of all worthinesse in their owne workes and this doctrine Cassander derives through the lower ages of the Schoole-men and later writers Thomas of Aquine Durand Adrian de Trajecto afterwards Pope Adrian the sixth Clictoveus and delivers it for the voyce of the then present Church THE FOVRTEENTH CENTVRIE From the yeere of Grace 1300. to 1400. PAP WHat say you of this fourteenth Age PROT. In this Age learning began to revive for so it came to passe that divers learned men among the Greekes abhorring such cruelty as the Turkes used against their Countrey-men the Grecians left those parts and fled into Italy Now by their meanes the
to the ancient custome of the Primitive Church and could not bee induced simply and absolutely to condemne the Articles of Wickliffe but thought many of them might carry a good sense and that the Author of them was a man that carried a good mind howsoever hee might faile in some things and for these and the like tenets and reproofes they were burnt at Constance contrary to the publike faith and safe conduct given by the Emperour yea Aeneas Sylvius afterwards Pope Pius the second saith expresly It was thought good by the perswasion of Sigismund the Emperour that Iohn and Hierome should bee called to the Councell of Constance so that they came not of their owne accord nor yet without their warrantie and safe conduct but the Fathers of the Counsell dealt ill with them breaking the faith of the Emperour and dispencing with the breach of his safe-conduct as being of no force without theirs because forsooth faith was not to bee kept with Heretikes as thâ—y vainely alleadged therefore these poore men must have no priviledge of their Passe-port the Emperour saith Campian in a flourish of his Sealed their Passe but the Christian world to wit the Councell of Constance greater than Caesar brake up the seale and voided the Imperiall warranâ— notwithstanding the Emperour had both called the Councell and in a Citie of his ownâ— where hee onely had authority and Wenceslaus King of Bohemia at the request of the Councell sent thither Iohn Hus under the safe-conduct of the Emperour Now what Master Hus his learning was his workes yet remaining doe testiâ—ie Besides hee translated the Scriptures into the Bohâ—mian tongue which occasioned as Cochleus saith Artisans and Tradesmen to reade them insomuch as they could dispute with the Priests yea their women were so skilled as one oâ— them made a booke and the Priests of the Thabâ—rites were so skilled in arguing out of the Scripture that one of them named Rokyzana who had beene present at the Counsell at Basil undertooke to dispute with Capistranus a great and learned Papist touching Communion in both kinds and that out of the holy Scriptures the ancient Doctors and the Churches Canons and Constitutions as also from the force of naturall reason Aenâ—as Sylvius saith That Hus was an eloquent man and that in the worlds estimation hee had gained a great opinion of holinesse Hierome was a man of that admirable eloquence learning and memory that Poghius the Florentine Historian and Oratour admired his good parts and the same Poghius being an eye-witnesse of his triall at the Councell of Constance saith He was a man worthy of eternall memory that there was no just cause of death in him that hee spake nothing in all his triall unworthy of a good man yea hee doubteth whether the things objected against him were true or no. Besides he was so resolute at his death that when the Tormentor kindled the fire behind his backe he bid him make it in his sight For if I had feared the fire said he I had never come hither and so whiles the fire was a making hee sung Psalmes and went cheerefully to his death The like resolution was in Iohn Husse at his death for whereas his enemies made a crowne of paper with three ugly devils painted therein and this title Arch-heretike set over when Iohn Husse saw it he said My Lord Iesus Christ for my sake were a Crowne of thornes why should not I then for his sake weare this light Crowne bee it never so shamefull I will doe it and that willingly and so hee died constantly and so indeed the storie reports that they went to the stake as cheerefully as it had beene to a banquet Iohn Husse may seeme to have had some propheticall inspiration for at his death hee prophesied saying You roast the Goose now but a Swan shall câ—me after mee and hee shall escape your fire Now Husse in the Bohemian tongue signifieth a Goose and Luther a Swan and this Swâ—n succeeded him just an hundred yeares after foâ— so these two blessed servants of God prophesied saying Wee cite you all to make answer aâ—d after an hundred yeares to give an account of this your doing unâ—o God and accoâ—diâ—gly as they foretold it came to passe for they suffered martyrdome in the yeare 1416. and just an hundred yeares afâ—er to wit in the yeaâ—e 1516. the Lord raysed up Luther who indâ—ed called the Pope and his doctrine to a reckoning Vpon this propheticall speech of Iohn Husse there was money coined iâ— Bohemia with this inscripâ—ion in Latine on the one side Cintum revolutis annis Deo respondebitis et mihi anno 1416 Hie onymus condemnatus that is After an hundred yeares you shall answer to God and to me and on the oâ—her side of the plate was engraven Credo unam â—ssâ— sanctam Ecclesiam Catholicam anno 1415. Io. Husse I beleeve one holy Catholike Church PA Did Husse and his followers teach as you doe PRO For substance of doctrine they taught as wee doe their enemies indeed misreported their doctrine and charged them with that they never held insomuch as Husse solemnely protested even at the point of death That hee never held those Articles which the false witnesses deposed against him but held and taught and wrote the contraâ—y taking it upon his death that hee taught nothing but the truth of the Gospell which hee would then seale with his blood Now touching their doctrine we are driven to takâ— the scaâ—tling of their opinions from the pens of tâ—eir advâ—rsaries by whom wee perceive that it is very pâ—obâ—ble 〈◊〉 Hussiâ—es were instructed and much helped by Wicklâ—â—ss bookes and accordingly wee find that both Aenâ—â—s Sylvius and Cochleus report that the meanes wheâ—â—by â—he Bohemiâ—ns came to know the doctrine of Wicklâ—ffe was for that a certaine noble man studying in Oxford carried thence with hiâ— into Bohemia Wiâ—klifs bookes de Realibus universalibus As if it had beene some rare jewell and Cochleus saith That as a Bohemian brought first into Bohemia Wickliffes bookes de Realibus uniâ—erâ—alibus So there was afterwards one Peter Paineâ— a Scholler of Wickliffes who after the death of his Master came â—lso into Bohemia and brought with him Wâ—â—kliffes bookes which were in quantity as great as Saint Auâ—â—ines Workes many of which bookes Husse did aftâ—rwards translate into their mother tongue Bellarmine jâ—ynes the Hussitesâ— and Waldenses together as holding the same points of doctrine and reproving the same abuses of Rome And Platina saith that Hâ—sse and Hierome were condemned in the Councell of Constance as being followers of Wickliffe Aeneas Silvius saith the Hussites embraced the pâ—ofession of the Waldenses Now wee have already showne the tenets of the Waldenses and Wickliffe But to come to particulars bâ—sides the Hussites there were others also of his disciples which were called Thaborites of the place Thabor
Masses wherein the Pâ—iests alone doth Communicatâ— without the pâ—ople it is contraâ—y to â—he Canon of â—he Mâ—sse saying in the â—lurall number Sumpsimus we have â—ecâ—ived anâ— Quoâ—quot ex hoc altaris participatione c. That all wee which in â—he participatâ—on of the Altar have receivâ—d the sacred body and bloud of tâ—y Sonneâ— c. Iohn Hossmeâ—ster a learned man expounding the prayers of thâ— Massâ— hath these wâ—rds The thing it sâ—lfe proclaimeth it thâ—t as wâ—ll in the Greâ—ke as Latine Church not onely the Priest which sacrifâ—â—eth but the other Priests and Deacons also yea and the people or at leâ—st some part of them did Commuâ—icateâ— which custome how it grew out of use I know not but surely wee should labour to bring it in againe By this it appeares that the Priests receiving alone and the neglecting or excluding the communicating of others as noâ— much necâ—ssâ—ry is indeed a poynt of Romish Religion but conâ—rary to the words of the Canon and â—he ancient custome of the Church it proceeded from the iâ—devotion of the people or rather â—he neglâ—gâ—nce or errour of the guides of â—he Church that either failed to stirre them up to the performâ—nce of such a duty or made them belâ—eve their Act wâ—s sufficient to comâ—unicate the benefits of Christs passion to thâ—m but this course was misliked by them of the betâ—er sort Concerning Communion in one kind that is another poynt of Romish Religion supposed to be conteined in the Masse which yet wanâ—s the liking and approbation of the best and woâ—thiest guides of Gods Church then living Cassander saith It is sufficiently manifest that the â—niversall Church of Christ untill this day and the Westerne or Romane Church for more than a thousand yeares after Christ did minister the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church at least in publicke as it is most evident by innumâ—rable testimonies both of Greâ—ke and Latine Fathers It is true indeed â—hat in case of necessiâ—ie as when children or such as were sicke and weake were to â—eceive the Communion thâ—y used to â—ip the mysticall bread into the consecrated wine under preâ—enâ—e of Caâ—efull avoiding the danger of spilling it and greater reverence toâ—ards the holy Sacrament from this customâ— whâ—â—â— yet was â—islâ—ked as appeares by Hildebeâ—◠〈…〉 some proceedâ—d farther and began to teach the people that seeing the body and blood of Christ cannot be separated in that they partake of the 〈◊〉 they partake of the other also and that therefore it was sufficient to receive in one kind alone Nâ—â—thâ—r yâ—t could this give satisfaction for howsoever the custome of communicating under one kind prevailed yet there wanted not such as sufficiently expressed their judgement that communicating in both kinds as Christ first did institute and the Church for a long time observed was fit and convenient perfect and compleat and of more efficacie and cleerer representation than the other under one kind alone Come to another maine point the proper and propitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the dead and see whether at Luthers appearing before and after all that used that Liturgy had such an opinion of a sacrifice Saint Ambrose and Saint Chrysostome by way of correction say Wee offer the same sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof Peter Lombard proposing the question whether that which the Priest doth may properly be named a Sacrifice or Immolation answereth that Christ was only once truely and properly offered in sacrifice and that hâ—e is not properly immolated or sacrifised but in Sacrament and Representation onely Lyra saith that If thou say the Sacrifice of the Altar is daily offered in the Church it must be answered that thâ—re is no reiteration of the sacrifice but a daily commemoration of that sacrifice that was once offered on the Crosse. Georgius Wiâ—elius a man much honoured by the Emperours Ferdinand and Maximilian defines the Masse to be a Sacrifice Rememorative and of prayse and thankesgiving where many give thankes for the price of their Redemption The Author of the Enchiridion of Christian Religion publishâ—d in the provinciall Coâ—ncell of Colen saith In that the Church doth offer the true body and blood of Christ to God the Father it is meerely a representative sacrifice and all that is donâ— is but the commemorating and representing of that sacrifice which was once offered on the Crosse. By that which hath beene said it is cleare that the best and worthiest guides of Gods Church both before and after Luthers time taught not any new reall offering of Christ to God the Father as a propitiatory sacrifice to take away sinnes but in effect as wee doe namely that the sacrifice of the Altar is only the sacrifice of praise and thankesgiving and a meere representation and commemoration of the sacrifice once offered upon the Crosse his being the reall sacrifice on the Crosse ours only the Sacramentall Representation Commemoration and Application thereof so that Christ is not newly offered any otherwise than in that hee is offered in the view of God nor any otherwise sacrifised than in that his sacrifice on the Crosse is commemorated and represented And thus the Fathers terme the holy Eucharist an unbloody Sacrifice not because Christ is properly and in his substance offered therein but because his bloody sacrifice upon the Crosse is by this unbloody commemoration represented called to remembrance and applyed Besides these points mentioned I have already produced witnesses in all ages and in all parts of the world rejecting those bookes as Apâ—cryphall that wee doe and showne that even untill Luthers time the Church did not admit the Canon of Scripture which the Romanists now doe nor ever accounted those bookes canonicall which wee thinke to bee Apocryphall and by these instances it may appeare That all were not Papists who held with the Masse Thâ— thing then we say is this that though the Masse was generally in uâ—e at â—nd bâ—fore Luthers timeâ— yet diverâ— poynts belonging thâ—reunto were not beleeved by tâ—e worthieâ—t guides in God Church at and before Luthers time though indeed there were some in the Chuâ—ch â—hat so coâ—ceived of them as the Romanists now doe and the reason hereof is this They were not generally received by all mâ—n nor as the undâ—ubted determinations of the Church not as Dogmata fidei but Dogmata scholae controverted and diveâ—sly disputed among the learned holden with great libertie of Iudgement by the greatest Doctors as appeares by their owne bookes of controversies written by Bellarmine Suaâ—ez Azorius and others which confute their owne writers almost as much as they doe Proâ—estants Besides had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them uniformly entirely and constantly as they held the doctrine of the Trinity the Creation the Incarnation of the Sonne of God and other Articles of the Faith Objection If these points
Church holding that shee was a pure Virgin both before the birth of Christ and that shee also continued a Virgin all her life after condemned Helvidius for an Heretike now why were the Helvidians adjudged Heretikes surely because they beleeved more than was reveled in the word and would have thrust that on the Church for an Article of faith which had no ground at all And this is your case you over-â—each in your beliefe as the Helvidian Heretikes did witnesse your tenets of Transubstantiation adoration of Images Invocation of Saints Purgatory the Popes supremacie and the like wherein your faith is monstrous like the Gâ—ant of Gath who had on every hand sixe fingers and on every foote sixe toes and so it is with you who in the new Creed of Pope Pius the fourth have shuffled in more Articles of faith than ever God and his Catholike Church made Neither doe wee fall short in our beliefe for wee measure our faith by the standard and rule of Gods written wordâ— now since it jumpeth with the rule it neither faileth in defect nor over-reacheth in excesse Now by this time I hope I have performed the taske which I undertooke PA. You have indeed given in a Catalogue of visible Professors in some part of Christendome but what is this to the whole universall Church PRO. Very much for these particular congregations serve to make up the whole state of Christ his Church militant here on earth now this Church farre and wide dispersed hath in her particular members for substance of doctrine taught as wee doe To begin with the Easterne Church amongst the Grecians and Armenians The Grecians held that the Romane Church had not any Supremacie of Iurisdiction authoritie and grace above or over all other Churches They celebrated the Sacrament of the Eucharist in both kinds as we doe They denied that there was any Purgatorie fire They denied Extreame unction to bee a Sacrament properly so called They reject the Religious use of Massie Images or Statues admitting yet Pictures or plaine Images in their Churches The Armenians denie the true body of Christ to be really in the Sacrament of the Eucharist under the Species of Bread and Wine They denie the vertue of conferring grace to belong to the Sacraments Ex Opere operato They denie the Popes Supremacie and are subject to two of their owne Patriarches whom they call Catholicks They reject Purgatorie They have their publicke Service in their vulgar language The North-east Church amongst the Russians and Muscovites as they were converted to Christianitie by the Grecians so have they ever since continued of the Greeke Communion and Religion They have their divine Service in their owne vulgar language They reject Purgatorie They communicate in both kinds They denie the spirituall efficacie of Extreame unction To proceede now to the South-Church amongst the Habassines or mid land Aethiopians the Character of their Religion is this as I find it in Maâ—hew Dresser who reports it from Francis Alvarez a Portugal Priest and sometimes Legat into Aethiopia They communicate in both kinds They use no Extreame unction They reverence the Saints but they pray not unto them they doe much honour the mother of Christ but they neither adore her nor crave her mediation They have their Liturgie or Church Service in their owne vulgar language They have a Patriarcke of their owne who is confirmed and consecrated by the Patriarcke of Alexandria on which See they depend and not on the Romane In the Westerne Church we have the consent of the Waldenses in France the Wicklevists in England commonly called Lollards and Thaborites in Bohemia Here be then the Greeke and Latine Church the Churches in the the East West North and South all of them teaching for substance of doctrine as we doe I know indeed that Bellarmine sleighteth these Churches of Graecia Armenia Russia and Aethiopia saying We are no more moved with their examples than with the examples of Lutherans and Calvinists for they bee either Hereticks or Schismaticks So that all Churches be they never so Catholicke and ancient if they subscribe not to the now Romanâ— Faith are either Schismaticall or Hâ—reticall But we may not be so uncharitable to these afflicted Churches For as learned Bishop Vsher saith if wee should take a survey of these Churches and put by the points wherein they did differ one from another and gather into one body the rest of the Articles wherein they all did generally agree we should find that in those propositions which without all controveâ—sie are universally â—eceived in the whole Christian world so much truth is conâ—eined as being joyned with holy obedience may be sufficient to bring a man unto everlasting salvation Object I except against the Greeke Church for that it denieth the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son of God Answer Every errour denieth not Christ the foundation Indeed it would have grated the foundation if they had so denied the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne as that they had made an inequalitie betweene the Persons but since their forme of speech is that the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father by the Sonne and is the spirit of the Sonne and since as the Master of the Sentences saith Non est aliud It is not another thing to say the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Father and the Sonne then that he is or proceeds from the Father and the Sonne in this they seeme to agree with us In eandem fidei sententiam upon the same sentence of Faith though they differ in words Since I say they thus expresse themselves they may continue to bee a true Church though erronious in the point mentioned In like sort Scotus following his Master Lombard saith that The difference betweene the Greekes and the Latines in this point is rather Verball in the manner of speech than Reall and materiall Besides it seemes by the same Scotus that the Greeks held no other Heresie then Saint Basil and Gregory Nazianzene held whom yet no man durst ever yet call Hereticks so that you must give us the famous Greeke Church againe PA. I have yet divers exceptions to take at your Catalogue as also at your English Martyrologie for you have named out of Foxe some for Martyrs who were very meane persons namely Iohn Claydon a Curriar of Leather Richard Howden a Wooll-winder as also some by name Thomas Bagley for a Martyr who was a married Priest PRO. What though some of them were tradesmen did not Peter stay divers daies in Ioppa with one Simon a Tanner Act. 9.43 Was not that godly convert Lydia a seller of Purple Act. 16.14 Hath not God chosen the base things of the world to confound the mighty 1 Cor. 1.27 c. Besides they were no such base people for among others I produced
and differed from you so that they cannot belong to the same Church PRO. Concerning Wickliffâ— Husse and the rest if they have any of them borne record to the truth and resisted any innovation of corrupt Teachers in their times even to blood they are justly to be termed Martyrs yea albeit they saw not all corruptions but in some were themselves carried away with the streame of error Else if because they erred in some things they be no Martyrs or because we dissent from them in some things we are not of the same Church both you and we must quit all claime to Saint Cyprian Iustin Martyr and many more whom we count our ancients and predecessors and bereave them also of the honour of martyrdome which so long they have enjoyed Irenaus and Iustin Martyr held the error of the Millenaries Cyprian many others held Rebaptization necessary for such as were baptized by heretikes S Austin and the greatest part of the Church for sixe hundred yeares held a necessitie of the Eucharist to Infants and in other things differed one from another and from the Church in the aftertimes correcting their errors yet because they all entirely and stedfâ—stly held all the necessary fundamentall principles which these errors did not infringe neither held they these errors obstinatly but only for want of better information they were of the same Church and Religion whereof we are S. Austin saith There be some things in which the most Learned and best Defenders of the Catholike Rule the bond of faith preserved do sometimes not agree among themselves and one in some one thing saith righter than anoher Now if the different opinions of the Fathers in some points hindred not their union in substance of the faith and their being members all of the same Church why should the like or lesser differences now among the Protestants hinder their union in substance of the same faith and their being members all of the same Chuch both among themselves and with the Fathers yea but Wickliffe and Husse with others mentioned in our Catalogue they erred in point of faith it is true but yet their error was not joyned with pertinacy they errâ—d not incorrigibly buâ— for want of better information they erred in that doctrine of faith wherein the truth was not fully scanned declared and confirmed by a Plenary Councell as S. Austin speaketh had it beene we may well thinke the very same of all those holy men which Austin most charitably saith of Saint Cyprian Without doubt they would have yeelded to the truth being manifested unto them by the authority of the whole Church Object We are at vnity but your Protestants are at ods and namely your Lutherans and Calvinists in the point of the Sacrament the one holding Consubstantiation and the other opposing it Answer The Protestants especially we of the Church of England are at unity as appeares by the Harmony of our confessions as also by our joynt subscriptions to the Articles of Râ—ligion established And for the point mentioned the difference is nothing so great as you would have it thought for as the moâ—t learned and judicious Zanchius observeth and our Doctor Field out of him In all necessary points both the parties agree and dissent in one unnecessary which by right understanding one another might easily be compounded Both sides saith Zanchius doe agree that the elements of bread and wine are not abolished in their substance but onely changed in their use which is not onely to signifie but also to exhibit and communicate unto us the very body and blood of Christ with all the gracious working and fruits thereof Both parties agree that the very body and blood of Christ are truely present in the Sacrament and by the faithfull truely and really received Thus farre all parties agree that is in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament for the other matter wherein they differ de modo of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures in the judgement of Zanchius it might well be omitted and they themselves confesse when they have gone as farre as they can to determine it still it is ineffable and not possible to be fully understood It is enough for us saith the same Zanchius to beleeve the body and blood are there though how and in what manner wee cannot define So then in this maine controversie betweene them about Consubstantiation which as Zanchius saith did afterwards occasion that other of ubiquity in both these controversies the main truth on both sides is out of controversie that Christ is really truly exhibited to each faithfull Communicant and that in his whole person he is every where the doubt is onely in the manner how he is in the Symbols and how in heaven and earth Now for other ods amongst us they be but in Ceremonies or at worst in points of no absolute consequence whereas the differences amongst Papists concerne the life of Religion They differ concerning the Supreame authoritie of the Church whether it be in the Pope or in the Generall Councel The Councels of Constance and Basil determined that a Generall Councel was above the Pope the Councel of Florence decreed the Pope to be above a Generall Councel They differ concerning the manner of the conception of the Virgin Mary The Dominican Friers following the Thomists hold that she was conceived in Originall sinne the Franciscans hold the contrary The moderne Popes disâ—gree with the ancient concerning the dignitie of universall Bishop adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in both kinds and the Merit of good workes as is already showne in the fifth and seaventh Centurie of this treatise So cleere is it that some doctrines of the later Roman Church were opposed by the ancient Roman Bishops thâ—mselves to wit adoration of Images as also the dignity and title of universal Bishop by Gregorie the Great coÌ„munion in one kind â— as also the merit of good works by Leo the first TransubstantiatioÌ„ by Gelasius the first Besides the Iesuits and Dominicans differ at this day concerning the weighty point of Free-will and Grace The truth is the Popish Faith varieth not onely with their persons but according to time and place so that they can exchange their tenets upon occasion advance or cry downe their opinions at their pleasure as may best serve for their advantage For as Azorius the Iesuit saith It falls out often that that which was not the common opinion a few yeares since now is And that which is the common opinion of Divines in one Country is not so in another As in Spaine and Italy it is the common opinion that Latreia or divine worship is due to the Crosse which in France and Germaâ—y is not so but some inferior kind of worship due thereunto And Navarrus the Casuist sayes
at Aâ—twerpe Anno 1576. at Paris Anno 1586. at Coleine Ann. 1616. but no such place was there to be found the Divines of Lovaine had taken a course with them and suppressed these testimonies but by good hap I met with them in the Basil Edition Anno 1569. Object Those whom you have named in your Catalogue were originally Catholikes and not Protestants Wickliâ—fe and Husse were Catholike Priests and Luther was an Augustine Frier you cannot name such as were Protestants originally they came forth of our Church Answer Whence I pray you sprang Christs Apostles were they not taken out of the Iewish Church at that time much corrupted S. Paul speaking of himselfe and the service of his God saith Whom I doe serve from my progenitors meaning Abraham Isaac and Iacob the first Fathers of the faithfull for as for S. Pauls immediate predecessors it is likely that they relished of the leven of the Pharisees It can be no more prejudice to our Church that Luther Wickliffe aâ—d Husse were originally Papists than to S. Paul that he was originally a Pharisee or to S. Austine that he was orinally a Manichee or to our Ancestors at the first conversion of our land that they were originally heathen or to all true Converts that they were originally unregenerate For as Tertullian saith Fiunt non nascuntur Christiani We are not borne Christians but we become Christians Neither is it true that wee can name none of our Church that were not originally Papists For Farellus and the Waldensian Ministers for more than 400. yeares were not originally Papists though Waldo himselfe was Besides the Fathers for 600 yeares and the Monkes in Britaine at Augustines comming were not originally Papists In the Greeke Church from 700. to 700 afterwards many thousands held as wee doe in all fundamentals who never were originally Papists nor millions of others in the Easterne Churches and namely in the Greeke Church there have bene from 700. to 700. afterwards many thousands which held as we doe in all fundamentals and never were originally Papists Lastly the like argument might be urged against all that embraced Reformation in Iosias dayes that they originally were involved in the common errors and Idolatry of the Iewish Church Likewise that Zachary and Elizabeth and Simeon and Anna and the Apostles were originally deduced from that Church which held many errors concerning the temporall kingdome of the Messias and divorces for other causes than adultery c. Which errors Christ and his Apostles reproved In England and most parts of the world the first Christians were originally Paynims and Idolaters what prejudice is that to Christianity or advantage to Heathenisme Object Your Churches professors mentioned in your Catalogue wanted lawfull succession Answer There is a two-fold succession the one lineall and locall the other doctrinall this of doctrine is the life and soule of the other Irenaeus describeth those which have true succession from the Apostles To bee such as with the succession of the Episcopall office have received the câ—rtâ—ine grace of tâ—uth and this kind of succession hee calleâ—h the principâ—ll succession Gregory Nazianzen having said that Atâ—anasius succeeded Saint Marke in godlinesse addeth That this succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succâ—ssion for he that holdeth the same doctrine is also pâ—rtaker of the same throne but he that is against the doctrine must be reputed an adversary even while hâ—e sitteth in the throâ—e but the former hath the thing it selfe and the truth so that according to Irenaeus and Nazianzâ—n succession in doctrinâ— suâ—ficeth yea Nazianzen as we have heard makes it all one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that he which holds the same truth of doctrinâ— may bee said to sit in the same Chaire of succession Besides wee are able to shew succession also in place for â—ive hundred yeares in most parts of Christendome and since that in the Greeke Church untill this day and in the Latine Church from the time of Waldo in France Bohemia and other places And for the Church of England the lineall succession of her Bishops is showne particularly by Mr. Francis Mason de ministerio Anglicano Mr. Goodwin in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England and Mr. Isaacson in his Chronologicall Table of the succession of the Bishops of England PA. Name in the space of a thousand yeares next before Luther three knowne and confessed Protestant Bishops succeeding each to other and if you had such expresse their agreement with you in the maine points controverted betweene us PRO. This demand was eagerly pressed upon me by a Romish Priest but the Stone which he hurled at mee not comming forth of Davids sling recoiles upon himselfe like the stone that Achilles flung at a dead skull which â—ebounded backe and strucke out the slingers eyeâ— Redijt lapis ultor ab osse Actorisque suifrontem oculâ—squè petit For I would in like manner demand of him to name three knowne and confessed Popish Bishops succeeding each other who maintained the worship of Images before the second Councell of Nice or that beleeved Transubstantiation before the Roman Councell under Pope Nicholasâ— or that avowed the dry and halfe Communion before the Councell at Constance under Martin the fift or that held the effect of the Sacraments to depend upon the Priests intention before the Councell at Florence or defined the Pope to be above a Generall Councell before the Councell of Lateran under Leo the tenth or that determined the twelve new Articles of Pius the fourth his Creed to be all de Fide and necessary to salvation before the Councell of Trent Besides there is no necessitie of naming three Bishops succeeding each other and opposing Poperie It sufficeth to name such as opposed it tho they sate not successively in the same Chaire for all Romish errors and superstitions rushed not in at once into the Church but by degrees now such as held the fundamentals with us and opposed any one error or more when they were first espied to creepe into the Church they were Protestants though they went not then under that name Now according to this account of Protestants wee can produce many more than three Bishops succeeding each other who in their times made head against Romish usurpations and superstitions for instance sake S. Austine and with him two hundred and seventeene Bishops of Africa and their successors for a hundred yeares together if their owne Records be true opposed the Popes supremacie in point of Appeales To speake nothing of the innumerable Bishops in the Easterne Churches and the Habassines and Muscovites and elsewhere succeeding each the other for many hundred yeares differing in no fundamentall point from Protestants and keeping no quarter at all with the Pope or See of Rome when Austine the Monke was sent into England by Gregory the Great the most ancient British and Irish Bishops withstood the Popes authority and ordinances stifly adhering to the Churches
by the shew of old sacks old bottles old shoes old bread that was mouldie as if they had come a farre off whereas they dwelt but hard by in like sort you put on a visour of antiquity but once search the ground thereof and draw aside this maske and then your tenets appeare to be but noveltie in comparison of primitive antiquity for as Tertullian saith That is true which is first and that false which is later In a word we are no Innovators but Reformers we doe not professe any Religion new made but a religion reformed and refined so that wee may say with the Christian Poet Haec novitas non est novitas sed vera vetustas Relligio et Pietas Patrum instaurata resurgit Quod tua corrupit levitas et nota tuorum Segnities igitur si quis labentia tecta Erigat et sterilem qui mansuefecerit agrum Iudice te damnandus erit It is no novell thing wee preach But such as ancient Fathers teach The truth which former Popes conceal'd Doth now begin to be reveal'd Must he be blamed that repaires The ruin'd Church and weed's out tares And thus have our Reformers done And they for this must be undone It is true then that the good seed was first fowne by the Apostles and fructified in the Church generally for 60. yeares afterwards the Enemie supâ—r-seminavit zizania he resowed the tares which in part were weeded out by Waldo Wickliffe and Husse but more universally and publikely by Luther Calvine and others so that wee have not sowne any tares upon the Churches gleabe land but onely weeded out such as were sowne by others in the dead of the night in the time of ignorance not whilst the Husbandman himselfe slept For hee which keepeth Israel neither slumbereth nor sleepeth but cum dormirent homines whiles men slept that is the overseers of the Vineyard grew carelesse and negligent And thus might tares be sowne though the time and â—eedsman were not knowne for it is confessed by your Trent-â—athers That many things through the fault of times or the negligence and wickednesse of men have seemed to have crept in to the Masse which are repugnant to the dignity of so great a sacrifice and yet they cannot tâ—ll when these abuses crept in nor by whose default And thus by Gods assistance I have finished the taske which I undertooke having named out of good Auâ—hors a Catalogue of such professours as taught for substance as the Church of England doth and withall cleered the Catalogue of our professours from such exceptions as the adversarie hath made against them and in producing this evidence I have as hee speakes in Iob 8.8 enquired of the former ages and made search of their Fathers and have dealt as Ioseph's steward did when he made search for his masters Cup He began at the eldest and left at the youngest and the Cup was found in Benjamin's Sacke Gen. 44.12 we have begun with the former ages passed along the middle and descended unto Benjamin's even to the later ages abutting on Martin Luther's time and have found even with these younger ages the Cup that wee sought for to wit A Protestants Church visible and conspicuous And now having I hope satisfied your demand Where was our Church before Luther I would require the like of you namely to show if you can out of good Authours I will not say any Empire or Kingdome but any Citie Parish or Hamlet within five hundred yeares next after Christ in which there was any visible assembly of Christians to be named maintaining and defending either your Trent Creed in generall or these points of Poperie in speciall to wit 1. That there is a treasurie of Saints Merits and super-abundant satiâ—factions at the Popes disposing 2. That the Laitie are not commanded by Christs Institution to receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper in both kinds 3. That the publicke Service of God in the Church ought or may be celebrated in an unknowne tongue 4. That private Masses wherein the Priest saith Edite bibite ex hoc omnes eate and drinke ye all of this and yet eateth and drinketh himselfe onely bee according to Christs Institution 5. That popes pardons are requisite or usâ—full to release soules out of purgatorie 6. That extreame unction is a Sacrament properly so called 7. That we may worship God by an Image 8. That the pope cannot erre in matters of Faith Shew us now if you can or any Papist in the world that these points above named which are maine points with you inasmuch as you account the denyers thereof Hereticks shew us I say that they were generally and constantly held for Catholick Church tenets in the first five hundred yeares next after Christ which is the very flower of primitive antiquitie But of these matters since this present conference is enlarged beyond my expectation at our next meeting if you please Meane time and ever the Lord of his mercie direct us in his owne wayes In the old way which is the god way as the prophet cals it Ierem. 6.16 and call home such as wilfully or by igâ—orance have gone astray that at length they may be brought to that One Shepherd and that One Sheepe fold of Christ Iesus to whom with his Father and the blessed Spirit be praise for evermore Amen FINIS Approbatio Censoris PErlegi hunc Librum cui titulus The Protestants Evidence c. Quem quonià m doctum judico et in palaestrâ Theologiae versatis utilissimum typis mandari permitto THO WEEKES D. P. D. Episc. Lond. Cap. Domest Genâ—sâ—â— 3.34 Ierem. 6 1â— a Hosea 7.8 b Populaâ— Israel non solum fâ—it infâ—ctuâ— Idololatriâ Ieroboam sed Idololatrijs Gentilium existentiuÌ„ circa populum Israel Lyra in loc Galath 2.9 2 Sam. 3 39. Prov. 27. v. 6. Iudg 14.18 1 Sam. 13.10 * â—ardius enascitur seris umbram factura Nâ—potibus Cupressus a Prot. Apolog. Tract 3. chap. 2. sect 2. p. 330. b Testes res omnes reculae nullam in orbe religionem nisi nostram imis unquam radicibus insedisse Camp rat 10. c Seculis omninò quindecim non oppidum non villam non domum reperiunt imbutam doctrinâ— suâ id rat 3. d Constat manifestè nemineÌ„ toâ—o oâ—be mortalium ante M. Lutherum hoc est anâ—e annuÌ„ 1517 〈◊〉 qui eam fidem tenâ—râ—t Coster Eâ—châ—â—id Coâ—trovers cap. 2. c Bristowes Motivâ—s Presat Motive 45. f Romaniâ—ellarm â—ellarm lib. 3. de Eâ—cleâ— cap. 2. g In Sole id estâ— in maniâ—estatione Aug. tâ—m 7. cont litâ— Petil. l. 2. cap 32. h Soâ—t poâ—uit tabernaâ—alâ—m in eis id est in ciâ—tiâ— Hieâ—on iâ— Psal. 18. to â— i Ecceâ—â—ia non apparebit impiâ—s tunc persecutoâ—ibuâ— vâ—tra modum savientibus Aug. epist. 80. tom 2. k Math. 5.15.16 l Chrysost. in Mathâ— c. 5. hom 10. tom 2. * Montem â—on videâ—â— nâ—lo mireris oculos non habent August tract 1.
Trithemij Epist. Familiar in 1. part opeâ—is Histor. Trithem Francof 1601. Fran. Turrian Denfens Canon Epistol Decretall Lut. 1573. Tyndarus de test extat in tom 4. tract illust juris consult Venet 1584. V. Greg. de Valentia in Sum. Aquinat tom quart Paris 1609. De reb Fidei controvers Lugd. 1591. Laur. Valla de Constantini Donatione in Fascic rer expetendar fugiend Colon. 1535. Gabr. Vasquez Disput. in tert part S. Thom. tom prim Ingolstad 1610. tom 3. Antuerp 1614. In primam Secundae Aquinat tom secundus Ingolstad 1612. Vaux his Catechisme Antwerp 1574. S. Vdalric de Coelibatu Cleri inteâ— monum S. Patr. Orthodoxographa edit per Io. Iac. Gryn Basil. 1569. And. Vega his opuscula de Iustificat Compl. 1564. Ferd. Velosillus his Advertent Theolog. Venet. 1601. B. Victor de persecut Vandalicâ Par. 1569. in tom 7. Biblioth vet Patr. Par. 1589. Hugo de S. Vistore opera in 3 tom Venet. 1588. Blas Viegas his commentar in Apocalyp Lugd. 1602. Nic. Vignier Recueil de l'Histoire de l'eglife A. Leyden 1601. Vincentius Belluacens opera ejus in 4. tom Venet. 1591. Pet. de Vineis lib. 6. Epistolar Ambergae 1609. Polyd. Virgilius de Rerum Inventor Fr. 1599. Vita Bernardi Gilpini per Georg. Carleton Episcop Cicistrens Lond. 1628. Rich. Vitus Basingstoch Histor. lib. 8. Atreb 1597. Io. Ludov. Vivâ—s de Disciplinis Lugd. 1551. Luâ— Vives Scholia in Augustin de Civit. Dei in tom ejus quint Basil. 1569. Iac. de Voragine Sermones 1501. Zachar. Vrsin Catechet explicat Lond. 1596. Conrad à Lichtena Abbas Vrspergensis Chron Paraleipom Fr. 1599. Iac. Vsserius de Christianarum Ecclesiar Successione Statu Lond. 1613. Iac. Vsserij Gotteschalcus Dublin 1631. Veter Epistolar Hibernic Sylloge Dublin 1632. His Answer to the Iesuites Challenge London 1631. Of the Religion professed by the ancient Irish London 1931. His Sermon at Wansted and before the Commons House of Parliament London 1631. W. Walafr Strabo Quaere Strabo Io. Paul Perrin his History of the Waldenses Lond. 1624. Wessembecij oratio de Waldensib extat in Joachimi Camerarij narratione de Fratrum Orthodox ecclesijs in Bohemiâ Heidelbergae 1605. Tho. Waldensis opera Venet. 1571. Tho. Walsingham Histor. Anglor Francof 1602. Wessâ—lus Gronigens de potestate Papae Matâ—ria Indulgentiar Hanov. 1612. Math. Westmonasteriens Flores London 1570. Whitakeri opera Gen. 1610. Fr. White Bp. his Reply to Iesuite Fisher London 1624. The Orthodox Faith London 1617. I. Wiclefs Conformitie with the Church of England by Tho. Iames Oxford 1608. Wiclefs Treatises against Friers published by Tho. Iames and printed according to the ancient Manuscript Copie remaining in the publike Library at Oxford Oxford 1608. Io. Wolfius Lection memorabil Lauvingae 1600. Z. Hieron Zanchij tomus sept Neostad 1605. Io. Zonaras Histor. in tom 3. Gr. Lat. Basil. 1557. FINIS Errata siâ— corrâ—ge In Epist. Ded. pag. 1. lin ult reade antedated pag. 2. lin 16. no râ—so In Praef. ad Lect. pag. 4. lin 2. and speâ—ke r. being to speake In Catal. test in the 5. Age lin 2. dele Andrew Rivet lin 10. B. of Cyrene r. B. of Cyrus or Cyria In the first Alphabet Pag. 7. lin penult r. they practise p. 18. in marg li. 17. r. 1590. pag. 35. lin 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 39. in marg li. 21. cap. r. cont pag. 42. l. 19. other r. the other pag. 55. l. 25. Christ r. God p. â—9 l. 5. learned r. taught pag. 76. lin 12. adde and we truely eat the word flesh pag. 78. l. ult substance r. person pag. 16â— lin 2. haec r. he viz. pag. 182. lin 15. were condemned r. were not condemned pag. 237. lin 2. glorifieth r. glorieth In the second Alphabet Pag. 14. in marg lin 1. nulluum r. nullum p. 31. l. 28. r. by a straine pag. 32. lin 24. dele as pag. 34. lin 31. saith r. hath pag. 51. in marg lin 14. r. sibi ipsi pag. 62. lin 3. r. I used pag. 84. in marg l. 13. r. salvatione pa. 100 in marg l. 8. r. tenuerim pag. 116. l. 14. r. heare pag. 123. l. 31. remaine r. to be abolished pag. 155. liu 29. universall r. easterne pa. 161. lin 13. did r. I did in marg lin 4. xiiij r. xij pag. 197. lin 24. many r. may pag. 204. lin 2. 60. r. 600. pag. 206. lin 1. god r. good The nine Articles of Religion handled in the severall Centuries of this Treatise are these 1 Concerning the Scriptures sufficiencie 2 Of the Scripture Canon 3 Of Communion in both kindes 4 Of the number of Sacraments 5 Concerning the Eucharist 6 Touching Worship of Images 7 Concerning Invocation of Saints departed 8 Of Iustification 9 Of Merits By the way arâ— handled The Popes Supremacie The power of Calling Councills Appeales to Rome Priestes Marriage c. THE PREFACE TO THE PROTESTANTS EVIDENCE PAPIST GOod morrow Neighbour are you going to Church so early PROTESTANT I am Sir and I should bee glad of your company PAP So should I be of yours but I doubt wee goe not to the same Church PRO. I am going to a Protestant Church and I take that to be a true member of the Catholike PAP It is not for the true Church is ever gloriously visible and had visible Professors in all ages but yours was not in being saith Father Brereley untill Luthers dayes and Father Campian calls to witnesse res omnes reculas all things both great and small things and thinglings that never any other Religion but the Catholike tooke any deepe root upon the face of the earth And hee saith further That one cannot spie out so much as one towne one village one house for fifteene hundred yeeres that savoured of your doctrine And Iesuite Coster saith It is manifestly evident that none in the universall world before Luther in the yeere 1517 held that Faith which Luther and Calvins Schollers professed PROT. This is but a vaine â—lourish of the Iesuites and controuled by their owne man Bristow who acknowledgeth that some there have been in many ages in some points of the Protestants opinion Now for our Tenet this it is The Church that is the societie of Christian people professing saving faith is never totally hidden but there bee still some that hold the right faith and deliver it over to others and yet in time of persecution and the like cases the Church is not alwayes so conspicuous as that a man seeing her outward pompe and ceremonies may poynt her out and safely joyne himselfe to such a company for thus Bellarmine makes the Church to be a Societie subjecting themselves to the See of Rome teaching trueth without errour and this Companie as visible as are the Citizens of Rome Now for the Protestant Church though it have not bin alwayes gloriously visible yet it hath been evermore so visible as the true Church ought to be PAP Saint
Austin saith He hath set his Tabernacle in the Sun Is not the Church then conspicuous as the Sunne PROT. You may not argue from such Allusions as are taken from the outward pompe of the world thereby to describe the inward beautie of the Church 2. Besides according to the true reading the meaâ—ing is he hath set up a seat for the Sunne in the heavens that there it might be viewed as on a scaffold now this Sunne may be eclypsed 3. Againe this was onely an Allusion which Saint Austin used against the Donatists who pinned up the Church within a corner of Afriâ—k as now the Papists confine her to Rome thereby telling them there were many Churches besides theirs to bee seene as cleare as the Sunne if the Donatists could discerne them 4. Lastly though Austin termed the Church in diebus illis in his owne time to be set as it were in the Sun yet he denies not but that afterwards in declining ages this Sunne might bee darkened and the Church make but small appearance in the time of persecution as the same Father speakes PA. The Church is as a Citie upon an hill a light upon a Candlesâ—icke and therefore conspicuous PRO. 1. This also is an Allusion which yet Saint Chrisostome understands to be meant of the Apostles that they were to looke to their carâ—iage since they were to preach abroad and had many lookeâ—s on 2. Againe though the Church be set on a hill yet as the Aramites could not discerne â—he citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them till their eyes were opened 2 Kings chap. 6. no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his minde be enlightned And thus Austin tolde the Donatists they could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice In a word this Hill may bee hid with a mist this Sunne obscured with a cloud and the Moone ecclipsed The blessed Apostles were no corner-creepers yet were they not seene and acknowledged for true profâ—ssors by the Scribes and Pharisees that dwelt but hard by in Iewrie Howsoever what is this to Rome if shee hold the socket and want the light if she be seated on a hill yea seven hills like Babylon PA. Will you call Rome Babylon PRO. Your owne Iesuites call Rome Babylon neither can this bee meant of Heathen Rome but of Rome Christian and as it shall bee at the end of the world for so speakes Ribâ—ra and Viegas saith After that Rome shall fall from the faith Now Heathen Rome could not fall from the faith since it never professed the faith therefore the prophecie is to bee fulfilled in Rome Papall and Christian. PA. If thy brother offend thee tell the Church then must we needs know the Church PRO. 1. Wee are bid tell the Church that is her Pastors and Governours when there is such a standing Ministery and publike discipline exercised 2. But in case Tyrants hinder the open meetings of Christians even then also in some good sort though shee bee not so outwardly visible to her foes yet may the Church take notice as the faithfull in the primative Church met together privately and observed orders for reforming of abuses being knowne one to another as friends but unknowne as such to their foes In a word one may tell the Church though for the time shee bee hid from her foes even as one may tell a message to his friend who for the time is hid from his enemie PA. Some of yours say The Church was invisible for divers ages PRO. They say not it was simply invisible but they speake respectively so that looking on those times which fell out somewhat before and after the first sixe hundred yeeres and seeing the title of Vniversall Bishop which Gregoâ—y detested as Antichristian setled on the Pope about the yeere 666 and that this number so fitly agreed to the Man of sinne as also looking downeward to the thousand yeere wherein Satan was loosed and the Turke and Pope grew great looking hereon and comparing the Church as shee was then under Hildebrand forbidding Marriage and deposing the Emperour with her selfe in the primitive ages they said shee was in manner invisible in the Westerne Horizon to wit in respect of that degree and measure of the light of the Gospell that brake forth in the time of the Reformation Besides during the time mentioned it was visible enough in the Greeke and Easterne Church and for the Westerne it had the same subsisting and beeing with the best members in the Romane Church PA. Master Napier saith Our Religion hath raigned universally and without any debatable contradiction 1260 yeeres Gods true Church most certainely abiding so long latent and invisible And Master Peâ—kins saith That for the space of many hundred yeeres an universall Apostasie overspread the whole face of the earth and that your Church was not visible to the world PRO. Master Napier saith not that your Religion raigned so universally neither doth hee speake in generall of the whole body of the Romish Faith and of the universall Antiquitie thereof which is the poynt in question but onely of the first originall of the papall dominion and Antichristian kingdome as hee calleth it as Bishop Morton hath well observed neither yet was this papall Hierarchie or as Master Perkins calls it popish Heresie of being intituled Vniversall Bishop of the Church carried without the opposition of severall Councells and Worthies in Gods Church as God willing hereafter shall appeare For the place cited out of Master Perkins it is as we in our common phrase of speech use to say That all the world is set on mischiefe because so many delight in wickednesse Neither is this manner of speech unusuall in the Scriptures From the Prophet to the Priest all deale falsely saith Ieâ—emy 6.13 and Saint Paul saith All secke their owne and not that which is Iesus Christs Phil. 2.21 bâ—sides hee saith Iâ— had overspread the face of the earth Now a large fiâ—ld may be over-spread with Tares and weedes and yet some good corne in the field Neither saith Master Perkins that our Church was simply invisible but that it was not visible to the world and withall he tels us where it was It lay hid saith he vnder the chasse of Poperie Now the graine is not utâ—erly invisible whiles it is mingled with chaâ—se in the same heape PA. Was not the Church ever gloriously visible PRO. It was not for as S. Austin saith it was sometimes onely in Abel and he was slaine by his brother in Enoch and hee was translated from the ungodly it was in the sole house of Abraham Noah and Lot Afterwards how was it so notably conspicuous when as both Israel and Iudah fell to Idolatry in the times of Achaz and Manasse
when as those Kings caused the Temple to be shut up the Sacrifice to cease and erected Idols in every Towne Besides at our Saviours comming we find but a short Catalogue of true professors mentioned to wit Ioseph and Mary Zacharie and Elizabeth Simeon and Anna the Shepherds in the fields and some others When Christ suffered death his little flocke as hee called it was scattered his disciple â—led and none almost durst shew themselves save Mary and Iohn and some few women with oâ—hers After our Saviours death the Apostles and their followers were glad to meet in Chambers whiles the Priests Scribes and Pharisees bare all the sway in the Temple â—o that as the Treatise of the true Câ—urchâ—s visibilitie haâ—h it if a weâ—ke body had then enquired for the Church it is likely they had beene directed to them In â—he time of those Ten persecutions there could not be any knowne assembly of Christians but foorthwith â—he Tyranâ—s labouâ—ed to root them out but as Tâ—rtullian saith The blood of the Martyrs was the seed of the Church they were peâ—secuted and yet they increased Afâ—erwards when the Arrian Heresie overspread all so that all the world was against Athanasius and he and some few Confesâ—ors stood for the Nicen Faith insomuch as Hierome said The world sighed and groaned marveiling at it selfe how it was become Arrian what a slender appearance did the true professors then make and yet in such dangerous and revolting times even small assemblies of particular congregations wheresoever dispersed serve to make up the universal Church Militant so that the Reader is not to be discouraged if hee find not the Protestant Assemblies so thronged since it was not so with the primative Church and S. Iohn foretold That the woman that is the Church persecuted by the Dragon that old Serpent the Devill and his instruments should flie into the Wildernesse where the Lord promised to hide her till the tempest of persecution were over-blowne wherein God dealt graciously with his Church for had her enemies alwayes seene and knowne her professors they would like cruell beastes have laboured to devoure the damme with her young the mother with her children Now whereas the Papists brag of their Churches Visibilitie their owne Rhemists are driven to confesse that in the raigne of Antichrist the outward state of the Romane Chuâ—ch and the publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same may cease and practise their Religion in secret And Iesuite Suarez thinkes it probable That the Pope shall professe his faith in secret Where is then your Tabernacle in the Sunne your light in the Candlesticke when as your Church and Pope shall walke with a darke Lanterne and say Masse in a corner PA. Why was not the Church alwayes so conspicuous PRO. Because sometimes her best members as Athanasius Hilarie Ambrose and others were persecuted as Heretikes and ungodly men and that by learned persons and such as were powerfull in the world able to draw great troupes after them of such as for hope favour feare or the like respects were ready to follow them In this and the like case when false Priestes broach errours and deceive many Tyrants persecute Gods Saints and cause others to retire then I say when the faithfull want their ordinarie entercourse one with another the number of the Church malignant maybe great in comparison of those that belong to the true Church PA. If the Church were not alwayes so conspicuous in what sort then was it visible a visible Church you grant PRO. In the generall militant Church there have in all ages been some Pastors and people more or lesse that have outwardly taught the truth of Religion in substance though not free from errour in all poynts and these have beene visible by their ordinary standing in some part of Gods Church Besides for the more part there have bin also some that withstood and condemned the grosse errours and superstition of their times and these good men whiles they were suffered taught the truth openly but being persecuted by such as went under the Churches name even then also they taught and administred the Sacraments in private to such faithfull ones as would joyne with them and even in those harder times they manifested their Religion by their Writings Letters Confessions at their Iudgement Martyrdome or otherwise as they could Now as learned Doctor White in his Defence of his Brothers booke hath observed whensoever there bee any Pastors in the world which â—ither in an open view or in the presence of any part thereof doe exercise though in private the actions of true Religion by sound teaching the truth and right administration of the Sacraments this is sufficient to make the Church visible by such a manner of visibilitie as may serve for the gathering and preserving of Gods elect Now such visible Pastors and people the Protestant Church was never utterly destitute of PA. You seeme to make the Church both visible and invisible PRO. May not one bee within and seene with his friends and yet hidden to his enemies visible to the seeing and invisible to the blind Indeed Tyrants Infidells and Heretikes they knew the true beleevers as men of another profession but blinded with malice and unbeliefe they acknowledged them not for true professors as M. Bradford told D. Day Bishop of Chichester the fault why the Church is not seene of you is not because the Church is not visible but because your eyes are not cleare enough to see it and indeed such as put not on the spectacles of the Word to finde out the Church but seeke for her in outward pompe are much mistaken Aelian in his History tels us of one Nicostratus who being a well-skilled Artisan and finding a curious piece of worke drawne by Xeuxis that famous Painter one who stood by wondered at him and asked him what pleasure hee could take to stand as hee did still gazing on the picture to whom hee answered Hadst thou mine eyes my friend thou wouldest not wonder nor aske me that question but rather be ravished as I am at the inimitable art of this rare and admired piece In like manner if our Adversaries had their eyes annoynted with the eye-salve of the holy Spirit they might easily discover the Protestant Church and her visible congregations The Aramites 2 Kings 6. chap. could not discerne the citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them untill their eyes were opened no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his mind bee enlightned And thus Saint Austin told the Donatists They could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice Saint Austin compares the Church to the Moone which waxeth and waneth is eclipsed and sometime as in the change cannot be seene yet none doubts but still there is a
Moone The Church sometimes shines in the cleare dayes of peace and is by and by over-cast with a cloud of persecution as the same Austin saith The Moone is not alwayes in the Full nor the Church ever in her glorious aspect PA. If your Church were alwayes visible where then was it before Luthers time PRO. I might also aske you Where was a great part of your Religion before the Trent Councell which was but holden about the yeere 1534. Now for our Religion it was for substance and in the affirmative parts and positive grounds thereof the question being not of every accessory and secondary poynt it was I say contained in the Canonicall Scriptures wheras you are driven to seeke yours in the Apocryphall in the Trent Creed the Trent Councell Now ours it was contained in the Apostles Creed explayned in the Nicene and Athanasian confirmed by the first foure generall Councels taught in the undoubted writings of the true ancient and orthodox Fathers of the primative Church justiâ—ied from the tongue and penne of our adversaries witnessed by the confessions of our Martyrs which have suffered for truth and not for treason This is the Evidence of our Religion whereas for proofe of yours in divers poynts you are driven to flie to the bastard Treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias Linus Clemens S. Denys and the like as sometime Perkin Warbek a base fellow feigned himselfe to be King Edward the fourths sonne and for a time went under his name and yet these Knights of the poste must be brought in to depose on your behalfe though others of your side have cashiered them as counterfeits PA. If your Professors were so visible name them PRO. This is no reasonable demaund you have rased our Records conveied our Evidence clapt up our Witnesses and suborned your owne you have for your owne advantage as is already showen by that learned Antiquary of Oxford D. Iames and others and shall God willing appeare in the Centuries following you have I say corrupted Councells Fathers and Scriptures by purging and prohibiting what Authors and in what places you would and now you call us to a tryall of Names PA. Particular men may mis-coat the Fathers but our Church hath not PRO. You have witnesse your expurgatory and prohibitory Indices or Tables whereof since my selfe have of late bin an eye-witnesse and seene divers of them both in the publike and private Libraries in Oxford I will therefore acquaint the Reader with the mysterie thereof When that politike Councel of Trent perceived that howsoever men might bee silenced yet bookes would be blabs and tell truth they devised this course They directed a Commission to a company of Inquisitors residing in severall places and therby gave them power to purge and prohibit all manner of Bookes Humanitie and Divinitie ancient late in such sort as they should think fit Vpon this CoÌ„mission renued as occasion served the Inquisitors set forth their severall expurgatory and prohibitory Indices printed at Rome in Spaine in the Low-countries and elsewhere and in these Tables yet to be seen they set down what books were by theÌ„ forbidden and which to be purged and in what places ought were to bee left out whensoever the Workes should be printed anew for according to their Tables or Corrections books were to be printed afresh Now to make sure worke they got as many of the former Editions of the Fathers workes as they could into their hands and suffered no new Copie to come foorth but through their fingers purged according to their Receit neither feared they that their adversaries would set foorth the large volumes of the Fathers Workes or others having not the meanes to vent their Impressions being forbidden to be sold in Catholike countries By this meanes the Romane Censurers thought to stop all tongues and pennes that none should hereafter speake or write otherwise than the Trent Councell had dictatedâ— and so in time all Evidence should have made for the Romane cause Hereby the Reader may perceive that had their device gone on they would in time by their chopping and changing the writings of the Ancient at their pleasure have rased and defaced whatsoever Evidence had made for us and against themselves But so it pleased God that howsoever they had carried the matter cunningly in secret yet at length all comes out their plot was discovered and their Indices came into the Protestants hands The Index of Antwerpe was discovered by Iunius the Spanish and Portugall was never knowne till the taking of Cales and then it was found by the English PA. Might wee not purge what was naught PRO. Indeed if you had purged or prohibited the lewd writings of wanton Aretine railing Rablais or the like you had done well but under-hand to goe and purge out the wholesome sentences of the Fathers such as were agreeable to the Scriptures thus to purge those good old men till you wrung the very blood and life out of them bewrayeth that you have an ill cause in hand that betakes it selfe to such desperate shifts Neither can you justly say that you have corrected what others marred for it was your side that first kept a tampering with the Fathers Works and corrupted them Francis Iunius reports that hee comming in the yeare 1559 to a familiar friend of his named Lewis Savarius Corrector of a Print at Lâ—yden found him over-looking Saint Ambrose Workes wâ—ich Frâ—llonius was printing whereof when Iunius commended the elegancie of the Letter and Edition the Corrector told him secretly it was of all Editions the worst and drawing out many sheets of now waste paper from under the table told him they had printed those sheetes according to the ancient and authenticke Copies but two Franciscan Fryers had by their authoritie cancelled and rejected them and caused other to bee printed and put in their roomes differing from the truth of all their owne books to the great losse of the Printer and wonder of the Corrector so that had yoâ— prevailed neither olde nor new Greeke nor Latin Fathers nor later Writers had been suffered to speake the truth but eiâ—her like Parraâ—s been taâ—ght to lispe Popery or for ever beeâ— put to silâ—nce The best is the Manuscripts which by Gods providence are still preserved amongst us they mâ—ke for us as D. Iames excellently vers'd in Antiquitie hath showen at large PA. Have â—ee purged ought in the Fathers or Scriptures that was not to bee purged PRO. You have as appeares by these instances following St. Chrysostome in his third Sermon uâ—on Lazarus and elsewhere maintaineth thâ— peâ—spicuitie and plainnesse of the Scripâ—ures saying That in divine Scriptures all necessary things are plaine Hee likewise holdeth that faith onely sufficeth in stead of all saying This one thing I will affirme That faith onely by it seâ—fe saâ—eth In like sort Saint Hierome holds That faith only justifieth that workes doe not justifie that
they do meane the Pope for the time being Now to this height the Pope came under pretence of the Churches government the Churches discipline racking the spirituall censure to a civill punishment by the Church solemnities in crowning Emperors by his Excommunications Absolutions and Dispensations he rose to his greatnesse of state by the doctrine of workes meritorious Iubilees Pardons and Indulgences hee maintained his State And now I come to shew out of good Authors that in nine severall weighty poynts of Religion the best guides of Gods Church for the space of 1500 yeares have taught as the Church of England doth THE FIRST CENTVRIE From the first yeare of Grace unto the yeare One Hundred Christ Iesus and his Apostles the Protestants Founders PAPIST WHom doe you name in this first Age that taught the Protestant Faith PROTESTANT I name our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus and his Apostles Saint Paul and his Schollers Titus and Timothie together with the Churches which they planted as that of the Romanes Corinthians and the rest These I name for our first Founders and top of our kin as also Ioseph of Arimathea that buried Christs body a speciall Benefactor to the Religion planted in this land These taught for substance and in the positive grounds of religion as we doe in our Articles Liturgies Homilies and Apologies by publike authoritie established in our Church of England Besides these there were but few Writers in this age whose undoubted Works have come to our hands yet for instance sake I name that blessed Martyr of Christ Ignatius Bishop of Antioch who for the name of Iesus was sentenced to bee dâ—voured of wild beasts which hee patiently indured saying I am the Wheat or graine to bee ground with the teeth of beasts that I may be pure Bread for my Masters tooth let fire rackes pulleys yea and all the torments of Hell come on mee so I may winne Christ. Here also according to the Roman Register I might place Dionysius Areopagita whom they usually place in this first Age as if hee were that Denys mentioned in the Actes whereas indeed hee is a post natus and in all likelihood lived about the fourth Age and not in this first for Denys saith That the Christians had solemne Temples like the Iewes and the Chancell severed with such and such sanctification from the rest of the Church whereas the Christians in this fiâ—st age made their assemblies to prayer both in such private places and with such simplicitie as the Apostles did and as the times of persecution suffered them Againe Denys tells us that when hee wrote Monkes were risen and they of credit in the Churches and many Ceremonies to hallow them whereas in the Apostles time when the true Dionysius lived Monkes were not heard of yea Chrysostome saith That when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrewes there was not then so much as any footstep of a Monke PA. I challenge Saint Denys for ours hee was as our Rhemists say all for the Catholikes PRO. Take him as he is and as he comes to our hands hee is not wholly yours but in some things cleane contrary to you as namely in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper wherein you vary from us most Besides hee hath not your sole receiving of the Priest nor ministring under one kind to them who receive nor Exhortations Lessons Prayers in a tongue which the people understand not he hath not your Invocation of Saints noâ— adoration of creatures nor sacrificing of Christ to God nor praying for the soules in purgatory so that in things of substance and not of ceremony onely he is ours and not yours as I hope will appeare by his Writings for we will for the time suppose him to be a Father of this first age although the bookes which beare Saint Denys his name seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth age after Christ. PAP Can you proove that Christ and his Apostles taught as you doe PRO. Wee have cleare testimonies of Scripture which appoint Gods people to receive the blessed Cup in the Sacrament and to be present at such a divine service as themselves understand wee have expresse command forbidding Image-worship against Invocation of Saints it is said that Abraham knoweth us not and Isaac is ignorant of us and the blessed Angel refused all religious honour and Adoration Likewise against Merit of workes and workes of Super-erogation it is said that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall bee revealed in us and that wee are unproâ—itable servants when we have done all that was commanded us we have but done that which was our dutie to doe and the like PA. You alleadge Scripture and so doe wee yea in some things the Scripture is plaine for us as where it is said This is my Bodie PRO. What though it make for you in shew so doth it for the Anabaptists where it is said that the Christians had all things common you will not hence inferre that because in such an extremitie their charitie for the reliefe of others made things common concerning the use that therefore we should have no property in the goods that God hath given us It is not the shew and semblance of words but the sense thereof that imports the truth Saint Paul sayes of his Corinths Ye are the body of Christ yet not meaning any Transubstantiation of substance but hâ—reof anon in his due place PA. The Scriptures make not for you but as you have translated them PRO. For any point we hold we referre our selves to the Originalls yea wee say further let the indifferent Christian Reader who hath but tollerable understanding of the Latine Tongue compare our English translations with those which your owne men Pagnine Arias Montanus and others have published and they will finde but little countenance for Poperie and namely for Communion in one kind and Service in a strange Tongue which as is already proved hath bene decreed directly contrary to Gods expresse word but let us come to the particulars Of the Scriptures sufficiency and Canon The Church of England holds that Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation so that theâ—e is no doctrine necessary for our everlasting salvation but that is or may bee drawne out of that Fountaine of truth as being either expressely therein contained or such as by sound inference may bee deduced from thence and this is witnessed by Saint Paul saying that they are able to make us wise unto salvation that the man of God may bee perfited and throughly furnished unto all good workes which they should not bee able to doe if they contained not a perfect doctrine of all such poynts of faith as we are bound to bâ—leeve and duties to bee practised And if it be said that S. Paul speakes of the man of God such an one as
may grow in respect of farther Explanations but it cannot increase in Substantiall points even as a child as Vicentius Lirinensis â—aith though he grow in stature yet hath he no more limbs when he becommeth a man than he had when he was a child so the Church hath no more parts or Articles of Faith in her riper age than she had in her infancie and by this rule new Rome is a Monster if she have more â—word oâ— liâ—bs of Faith now in her declining age than ancient Rome had in her flourishing age And herein we challenge our adversaries to shew the body of their Religion peâ—fited in this first and purest age what time the Church was in her vigour and the Scripture Canon finished and consigned but they dare not be tried by the booke of Scripture Now for us we willingly put our cause to bee tried by that honourable and unpartiall Iury of Christ and his twelve Apostles and the Evidence that shall be given by the testimonie and vivâ voce of holy Scripture but they turne their backs and fly from this triall But I proceed and come to Ioseph of Arimathea whom I named for one of our Ilands speciall Benefactors it was this Ioseph as our best Antiquaries say that together with twelve other Disciples his Assistants came out of France into Britaine and preached the Christian Faith in the Western part of this Iland now called Glastenbury which place in ancient Charters was termed the Grave of the Saints the Mother Church the Disciples foundation whereby it is very likely that our land was first converted by Ioseph of Arimathea being sent hither by S. Phillip not from S. Peter and that not from Rome but from Arimathea which was not farre from Hierusalem so that Hierusalem is the Mother of us all as both Hierome and Theodoret say And this is the rather probable because that upon Austin the Monks comming into England the British Bishops observed their Easter and other points of difference according to the Greâ—ke or Easterne Church and not after the Romane Westerne Church which makes it probable that our first conversion came from the Christian converted Iewes or Grecians and not from the Romanes but howsoever it were or whence-soever they came wee blesse God for the great worke of our conversion THE SECOND CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 100. to 200. PAPIST WHom doe you name in this Age PROTESTANT In this Age lived Hegesippus of the Iewish Nation afterwards converted to Christianitie Melito Bishop of Sardis Iustine Martyr who of a Philosopher became both a Christian and a Martyr Now also lived Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons in France sometimes Scholler to Polycarp and both of them Martyred foâ— the name of Christ of this Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna it is recorded that being urged by the Romane Deputie to deny Christ he stoutly replied on this manner I have served him these foure-score and six yeares and he hath not hurt me and shall I now deny him Now also lived Clemens Alexandrinus who was Scholler to one Pantenus these two seeme to be the Authors of Vniversities and Colledges for they taught the Grounds of Religion not by Sermons and Homilies to the people but by Catecheticall doctrine to the Learned in the Schooles Now that in point of doctrine we consent with the Worthies of this Age it may appeaâ—e by the testimonie of Irenâ—us a Disciple of those that heard Saint Iohn the Apostle for he layeth downe no other Articles of Faith and Grounds of Religion then our ordinarie Catechisme teacheth besides he sheweth that in the unitie of that Faith the Churches of Germany Spain France the East Aegypt Libya and all the World were founded and therein sweetly accorded as if they had al dwelt in one house all had had but one soule and one heart and one mouth The like doth his contemporary Tertullian he gives the fundamentall points of Religion gathered out of the Scriptures and delivered by the Churches the same which our Church delivereth and no other for the Rule of Faith Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Irenaeus saith The Scriptures are perfect as spoken from the Word of God and his Spirit and Erasmus observes that Irenaeus fought against the troupes of Heretikes onely by the forces and strength of Scripture indeed he sometimes chargeth them with the Churches tradition wounding them with their owne weapon but this was with such undoubted tradition as were in his time thought to bee Apostolike which he might easily discerne living so neere the Aposâ—les dayes Melito Bishop of Sardis being desired by Onesimus to send him a Catalogue of the Bookes of the Old Testament makes no mention of Iudith Tobit Ecclesiasticus nor the Maccabees and yet he profesâ—eth that he made very diligent search to set downe a perfect Cannon thereof And this is likewise confessed by Bellarmine many ancients saith he as namely Melitoâ— did follow the Hebrew Canon of the Iewes Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments Iustin Martyr saith they which are called Deacons among us give to every one that is present of the consecrated Bread Wineâ— adding withal as Christ coÌ„manded them now these words which mention Christs Commandement Bellarmine would haue to belong to the Consecration only not to the Communion whereas Iâ—stin extends Christs precept to both both being injoyned in that precept doe this in remembrance of me so that we have both Christs precept and this Ages practice for our Communion in both Clemens Alexandrinus wrote a booke against the Gentiles which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as ye would say woven after the manner of coverings mixed with the testimonies of Scriptures Poets Philosophers and Histories and therein he hath these words When they distribute the Holy Eucharist as the custome is they permit every one of the people to take a part or portion thereof and what he meaneth by Eucharist himselfe explaineth saying the mingling of the drinke and of the Water and the Word is that which we call the Eucharist so that according to him not Bread onely but Bread and Wine is the Eucharist and of this every one of the people participated in his time and therefore all dranke of the Cup. Iustine Martyr in his Apologie for the Christians specifies no other Sacraments than Baptisme and the Lords Supper and yet in that treatise of his he was justly occasioned to mention the Sacraments of the Church and there he relates the manner of their Church-service Liturgies and Commnuion so that there had beene a fit place for him to have named those other five if the Church had then knowne them Of the Eucharist That the substance of Bread and Wine remaineth in the Sacrament after the words of Consecration albeit the use of the elements bee changed is cleere by the Fathers of this Age. Iustine Martyr saith that the elements of Bread
Disciples and followers of the Lord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them wee love worthily Now when they say that they cannot worship any other our learned and divine Antiquarie Doctour Vsher observeth that the Latine Edition of theirs which was wont to be publikely read in these Churches of the West expresseth their meaning in this manner Wee Christians can never leave Christ who did vouchsafe to suffer so great things for our Sinnes nor impart the supplication of Prayer unto any other PAP Irenaeus termeth the blessed Virgin the Advocate of Eve PRO. Indeed Bellarmine cryeth up this place with a quid clarius what can be said more plainely and Fevardentius answerable to his name falls not upon Gallasius about this place Now Irenaeus his meaning as elswhere he expresseth himselfe is this and no more that as by Eva Sinne came into the World and by Sinne death so by the Virgins meanes life and salvation instrumentally in that she was that chosen vessell of the Holy Ghost to beare him in her wombe who by taking flesh of her redeemed us from the curse of death And thus she was the Advocate or Comforter of Evah and her children by bearing Christ and not because she was invocated as a mediatour after her death by Evahs children Of Faith and Merit Irenaeus as Chemnitius observeth though he speake not expressely of Sola Fides yet he useth termes equivalent to that exclusive particle saying that there is no way to be saved from the sting of that old Serpent the Devill but by beleeving in Christ. The Fathers of this Age the most of them alleaged if not all wrote in Greeke and could not understand Merit And Polycarp the Martyr in his Prayer above mentioned useth the terme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not for to deserve but for to attaine procure or find favour I thanke thee O Father saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that thou hast graciouslie vouchsafed this day and this houre to allot me a portion among the number of Martyrs Now surely had the doctrine of Merit beene Catholike in his dayes he would doubtlesse being now in extremis and upon his fiery tryall have recommended himselfe to God by the Prayers and Merits of Saints but he neither pleades his owne nor others Merits none but Chaists In this Age Polycrates Bishop of Ephesuâ— and other Easteâ—ne Bishops in Asia withstood the Pope about keeping the Feast of Easter they prooved their custome to be received from Saint Iohn and that it was practised and continued by Polycarp the Martyr and others This did so vex Pope Victor as that he excommunicated the Churches of Asia neither did he revoke his censure for ought that Bellarmine can find and yet Irenaeus a godly Bishop of Lyons in France sharply rebuked the Pope for troubling the peace of the Church yea Pâ—lycrates stood at defiance with the Pope and contemned his threates to wit excommunications PA. This was no great difference PRO. If it were a matter of small weight why then would the Pope excommunicate so many famous Churches for dissenting from him therein Besides Bellarmine saith that the Pope conceived that this difference might breede heresie belike then he thought it a matter of consequence Howsoever by this oposition to the See of Rome we may observe that had those ancient Churches of Asia acknowledged the Popes Supremacie they would not have thus opposed his Constitutions nor sleighted his Censures In this Age also I find that when Lucius a Christian Prince in this our Britaine sent to Pope Elentherius to receive some Lawes thence the Bishop returned him this Answer as appeares by a Letter or Epistle usually inserted amongst the Lawes of Saint Edward the Confessâ—ur There are already within your owne Kingdome the Old and New Testament out of which by the Councell of your Kingdome you may take a Law to Governe your people for you are the Vicar of Christ within your own kingdom Whence we may observe that howsoever the Papists now adayes labour to prove the Popes Supremacie by his giving of Lawes and inflicting his Censures on others yet in these ancient times even by the Popes owne acknowledgement the King was held to be Supreame Governour within his owne Kingdome PA. Belike then Britaine was now Converted to the Faith PRO. It was converted before this time for in the Raigne of this Lucius lived those two learned British Divines Elvanus of Glastenbury and Medvinus of Wells and these two were sent by King Lucius to the Bishop of Rome to desire a supply of Preachers to assist the Britaines and with them returned Faganus and Damianus and these jointly with the Britaines preached the Gospell and Baptised amongst the Britaines whereby many were daily drawne to the Faâ—th of Christ and the Temples of the heathenish Priests their Flamines and Archflamines as they termed them were converted into so many Bishops and Archbishops Sees as the Monke of Chester Ranulphus Higden reports Neither yet is this to be called a conversion of our Iland but rather a new supply of Preachersâ— for Iohn Capgrave a Domynickâ— Frier one whom Parsons commends for a Learned man reports that Elvanus the Britaine had dispersed thorow the wilde fields of Britaine those seeds of the Gospel that Ioseph of Arimathea had formerly sowne and that the Pope made Elvanus Bishop in Britaine and Medvinus a Doctour to preach the Faith of Christ throughout the whole Iland which sheweth that when they were sent Ambassadours to to Eleâ—therius Bishop of Rome they were then no novices but learned and practised Divines as one of their owne Historians calleth them THE THIRD CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 200. to 300. PAPIST WHom name you in this Age PROTESTANT In this Age there flourished Tertullian Origen and Saint Cyprian now also lived Minutius Felix a famous Lawyer in Rome Arnobius and his eloquent Scholler Lactantius Tertullian was a man of a quicke and pregnant wit hee wrote learned and strong Apologies in the behalfe of Christians Cyprian read daily some part of his writings and so reverenced him that hee used to say to his Secretary Da magistrum helpe me to my Tutour reach me my master meaning Tertullian afterwards through spight of the Roman Clergie hee revolted to the Montanists and was taken up with their idle Prophecies and Revelations Origen was in this his age a mirrour of piety and of learning of all sorts both divine and humane he conferred the Hebrew text with the Greeke translations not onely of the Septuagints but also the translations of Aquila Theodosion and Symmachus hee found out other editions also which hee set forth and called them Octupla or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because every page contayned eight columnes or severall translations such as were then in estimation hee was of so happy a memory that hee had the Bible without booke and
eternall power and Godhead was manifested unto them by the creation of the World and the contemplation of the creatures hee addeth presently that God was sorely displeased with them and therefore gave them up unto vile affections because They changed the Glory of that incorruptible God into an Image made like unto corruptible men and to birds and foure-footed beasts and creeping things whereby it is evident that the Idolatry condemned in the wisest Heathen was the adoring of the invisible God whom they acknowledged to be the Creatour of all things in visible Images fashioned to the similitude of men and beast as the admirably learned Bishop Vsher hath observed in his Sermon preached before the Commons House of Parliament in Saint Margarets Church at Westminster Of Prayer to Saints There wanted not some who even in the Apostles daies under the pretence of Humilitie labored to bring into the Church the worshipping of Angels which carried with it a shew of Wisdome as Saint Paul speakes of it not much unlike that of the Papists who teach their simple people upon pretence of Humilitie and their owne unworthinesse to prepare the way to the Sonne by the servants the Saints and Angels this they counselled saith Theodoret should be done using humility and saying that the God of all was invisible and inaccessible and that it was fit men should get Gods favour by the meanes of Angels And the same Theodoret saith that they had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oratories or Chappels of Saint Michael Now the Councel of Laodicea to meete with this errour solemnly decreed that Christians ought not to forsake the Church of God and goe and invocate Angels and pronounced an Anathema against any that should be found to doe so because say they He hath forsaken our Lord Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and given himselfe to Idolatry And Theodoret mentions the Canon of this Councel and declares the meaning of it in these words Whatsoever ye doe in word or deed doe all in the name of the Lord Iesus giving thanks to God and the Father by him The Synod of Laodicea also following this Rule and desiring to heale that old disease made a Law that they should not pray unto Angels nor forsake our Lord Iesus Christ now there is the same reason of Saints that there is of the Angels PA. Iesuit Fisher in his Rejoynder to Doctor Whites Reply the second and third point saith The Councel and Theodoret are thus to be understood that Angels are not to be honoured as Gods PRO. How appeareth it that Christians were so rude in those Ages as to imagine that Angels were Gods or that sacrifices after the Pagan manner were due to them It appeareth by Theodoret that those whom he condemneth did not thinke the Angels to be Gods but that they served them as ministring Spirits whose service God had used for the publishing of the Law PA. Bellarmine saith The Councel forbad all worship of Angels called Latreia as being proper unto God but Binnius liketh Baronius exposition better who saith The Councel onely forbad the religious worship of false and heatheâ—â—sh Gods PRO. Bellarmine doth wrong in restraining the Councels speech to a speciall kind of worship for Theodoret saith generally that the Councell forbad the worship of Angels Neither did the Councell meane thereby to forbid the religious worship of false and heathenish Gods for Theodoret mentioneth the Oratories of Saint Michael and of such Angels as were supposed to give the Law and therefore were not ill Angels Baronius perceiving that the place in Theodoret toucheth the Papists to the quicke telleth us plainely That Theodoret by his leave did not well understand the meaning of Pauls words and that those Oratories of Saint Michael were anciently erected by Catholikes as if Baronius a man of yesterday at Rome could tell better what was long since done in Asia than Theodoret a Greeke Father and an ancient Father and Bishop living above twelve hundred yeares agoe not farre from those parts where these things were done Others to avoid the force of the canon have corrupted the Councell making this reading That men should not leave the Church to pray in angles or corners turning Angelos into Angulos Angels into Angles or corners but Veritas non quaerit angulos the truth will admit none of these corners neither hath the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 any affinitie at all with corners To proceed the Fathers of this age affirme that religious prayer is a proper worship belonging to the sacred Trinitie and by this argument Rom. 10 14â— conclude against the Arrians and Macedonians that Christ Iesus and the Holy Ghost are truely God because Christians believe in them pray unto them they accept their petitions Athanasius saith No man would â—ver pray to receive any thing from the Father and from the Angels or from any of the other creatures Gregory Nyssen saith Wee are taught to worship and adore that nature onely which is uncreated and accordingly Antonius in his Melissa hath set downe the foresaid sentence but the Spanish Inquisitors have commanded that the word Onely should bee blotted out of his writings Now the word Onely is the onely principall word whereupon the whole sentence dependeth In like sort where Athanasius saith that God onely is to bee worshipped that the Creature is not to adore the creature that neither men nor Angels are to be worshipped The popish Index as is already observed in the Preface to this Treatise hath razed these sayings out of his Index or table which yet remaine in the text Epiphanius tels us of some superstitious women that were wont to offer up a Cake to the blessed Virgin and this vanitie hee calleth the womans Heresie because that sexe mostly vsed it but hee reproves them saying Let Mary bee in honour but let the Father and the Sonne and the Holy Ghost bee worshipped let no man worship or adore Mary and indeed hee bends all his force against that point of adoring no lesse then in sixe severall places saying Mariam nemo adoret Now Adoration being condemned it can not bee conceived that adoring her and offering to her they prayed not also to her and required of her somewhat againe All which Epiphanius reprooves Saint Ambrose speaking of our Advocate or Master of Requests saying What is so proper to Christ as to stand by God the Father for an Advocate of the people and elsewhere hee saith Tu solus Domine invocandus es thou Lord onely art to bee invocated and whereas there were some that about this time sued unto Saints and Angels saying Wee have recourse to Angels and Saints with devotion and humilitie that by their Intercâ—ssion God may bee more favourable unto us Saint Ambrose or who evâ—r else was author of those Commentaries upon Saint Pauls Epistles that are framed among his workes
hath well mâ—t with them calling it A miserable excuse in that they thinke to goe to God by these as men goe to the King by an Ofâ—icer Goe to saith he is any man so mad or so unmindfull of his salvation as to give the Kings honour to an Officer for therefore doe men goe to the King by Tribunes or Officers because the King is but a man and knoweth not to whom to commit the state of the Common wealth but to procure the favour of God from whom nothing is hid for he kâ—oweth the works of all men wee need no spokesman but a devout mind for wheresoever such a one shall speake unto him he will answer him This testimonie is so full that it makes mee remember what I have seene written with his owne hand in Saint Ambrose his Margent by Archbishop Hutton one that by Campians testimony was well verst in the Fathers namely hoc testimonium jugulat pontificios this evidence choakes the Papists Reply The place alleadged is none of Saint Ambroses neither was hee the Authour of those Commentaries on Saint Paul's Epistles Answer Wee are not so streightned that wee need make any great reckoning whether they bee his or no for wee have alleadged other places of Saint Ambrose out of his workes of which there is no question And yet they are usually cited under Saint Ambrose his name Bellarmine in five severall places alleadgeth them and in particular this Commentary on the Romanes and the Rhemists they vouch them too and when any thing in these Commentaries seeme to make for them then they cry them up and say Beatus Ambrosius and when they would thence proove the Pope to bee the ruler of the whole Church then the stile runnes Blessed Sâ—int Ambrose in his Commentaries saith thus and thus and then Saint Ambrose is the Authour of them Reply Where Saint Ambrose saith Thou Lord onely art to bee invocated it is saith Cardinall Perron very true of Invocation absolute soveraigne and finall Answer This is as much as wee desire saith our acute and learned Bishop of Winchester Doctor Andrewes for as for their relative and subalterne Invocation wee know them not and it is likely the Fathers knew not of any such oblique meanes to helpe men in their devotions for if they had so many so diverse Fathers in so many Treatises specially where they wrote de Oratione of Prayer must somewhere have mentioned them Reply Saint Ambrose saith Ad Deum suffragatore non opus est now suffragari is to give ones voice God indeed needs not any be they Elements Stars Angels or Saints they meant to interpose betweene God and men pour l' enformer to informe him but there needs some to interpose betweene God and men pour les favoriser to procure favour on our behalfe Rejoynder Although the word in Heathen Authours be used in that sense yet in the Churches stile Suffrages are taken for Prayers and in their Portuises language I find that Suffrages are used for Ora pro nobis now to the poynt God as hee needs not any Referendarie to give him intelligence nor Counsailer to give him advice so neither needeth bee any Solliciter to incline him to heare the Prayers of a devour spirit but the great Mediatour of all which is Christ our Saviour saith our learned Winchester Reply Bellarmine replyeth that non opus est suâ—â—ragatore is not sayd on our part but on Gods Râ—joynder It would bee asked of him saith the same learned Bishop when it is sayd Ad Dâ—um suffragatore non est opus whether non est opus shâ—ll bee non est opus nobis or non est opus Deo to say non est opus Deo were absurd so iâ— must bee non â—st opus nobis and so the opus est must needs lye on our parts Reply Bellarmine saith that Ambrose speakes against the Heathen that worshipped the Starres whereupon hee saith that they worshipped their fellow servants that is Creatures Answer How doth it appeare that they were so rude as to imagine that the Starres were Mediatours to God for them PRO. What doe you say to the testimonies of Athanasius Ambrose and Epiphanius alleadged against praying to Saints PA. Iesuit Fisher in his Rejoynder to Doctour Whites Reply sayth The Fathers are thus to be understood that Angels are not to be honoured as Gods nor by Sacrifices in the heathenish manner PRO. This answer is defective for the Fathers not onely when they answer Heathens but when they instruct Christians deliver the like speeches as appeareth by Chrysostome in the fifth Age. Besides how doth it appeare that Christians were so rude in those Ages as to imagine that Angels were Gods or that Sacrifices after the Pagan manner were due to them Reply Bâ—llarmine saith farther that the Fathers alleadged doe speake against the errours of the Gentiles who made wicked men departed their Gods and did offer Sacrifice unto them Rejoynder By this Reply of Bellarmines the Reader saith the Right reverend learned Lord Primate Doctor Vsher may discerne the just hand of God confounding the mans wits that would thus abuse his learning to the upholding of Idolatry for had he beene his owne man he could not possibly have failed so fowly as to râ—ckon the Angels and the Saints and the very mother of God her selfe of whom these Fathers specially Epiphanius doe expressely speake in the number of those wicked persons whom the Gentiles did take for their Gods PA. Wee give Latrîa or worship to God and Dulia or service to the Saints PRO. You give a higher worship to God and a lesser to his Saints like that wanton Roman Dame who thought to excuse her folly by saying she companied with Metellus as with a Husband and with Clodius as with a Brother whereas all was due to her husband onely so doe these spirituall wantons part stakes in Gods worship whereas all religious worship is due to God alone Neither will this distinction salve the sore for the Scripture useth these terms without any such difference for the word Latria which you appropriate to Gods service is applied to men as in this place you shall doe no servile worke the word used is Latria Lâ—vit 23.7 the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so contrariwise the word Dulia is taken in Scripture for the proper service of God as in this place serving the Lord with all Humility the word there used is Dulia so that this distinction is idle since that Religious worship and service is all one PA. We doe not invocate the Saints by Faith as Authors of the benefits we crave PRO. Your practice sheweth the contrary for you pray to the Virgin Mary in these termes Maria mater gratiae Mater misericordiae Tu nos ab hoste protege Et horâ mortis suscipe Mary Mother of Hâ—avens grace Mother where mercy hath chiefe place From
it is a straine of rhetoricke why not the other also Sixtus Senensis gives a good rule for interpretation of the Fathers speeches specially in this argument The sayings of Preachers are not to be urged in that rigour of their words for after the manner of Oratours they use to speake many times hyperbolically and in excesse And hee instanceth in Chrysostome as well hee might for hee is full of them even there where hee speakes of the Sacraments hee saith That our teeth are fixed in the flesh of Christ that our tongues are dyed red with his bloud and againe That it is not the Minister but God that baptizeth thee and holdeth thy head Now these and the like sayings must be favourably construed as being improper speeches rhetoricall straines purposely uttered to move affections stirre up devotion and bring the Sacrament out of contempt that so the Communicanâ—s eyes may not bee finally fixed on the outward elements of bread and wine being in themselves but transitory and corruptible creatures but to have their hearts elevated and lift up by faith to behold the very body of Christ which is represented in these mysteries Otherwise the Fathers come downe to a lower key when they come to speake to the point yea or no and accordingly Saint Chrysostome when once he is out of his Rhetoricall veine and speaks positively and doctrinally sayth When our Lord gave the Sacrament hee gave wine and againe Doe wee not offer every day Wee offer indeed but by keeping a memory of his deaâ—h and hee puts in a kind of caution or correction lest any should mistake him Wee offer saith hee the same Sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof And such a Commemorative and Eucharisticall sacrifice we acknowledge Object Saint Cyril of Alexandria useth the word corporally saying that by the mysticall benediction the Sonne of God is united to us corporally as man and spiritually as God Answer Hereby is meant a full perfect spirituall conjunction with the sanctified Communicants excluding all manner of Imagination or fantasie and not a grosse and fleshly being of Christ's body in our bodyes according to the appearance of the letter otherwise this inconvenience would follow that our bodies must be in like manner corporally in Christ's body for Cyril as hee saith Châ—ist is corporally in us so he saith weare corporally in Christ by corporally then he meaneth that neere and indissoluble union in the same sence that the Apostle useth it saying In him dwelâ—eth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily Coll. 2.9 bodâ—ly that is indissolubly Bâ—sides Christ is likewise joyned corporally to us by the Sacrament of Baptisme and yet therein there is no Transubstantiation Of Image-worship Saint Hierome saith We worship one Image which is the Image of the invisible and omnipotent God Saint Austine saith No Image of God ought to be worshipped but that which is the same thing that he is meaning Christ Iesus Col. 1.15 Hebr. 1.3 nor yet that for him but with him And as for the representing of God in the similitude of a man he resolveth that it is Vtterly unlawfull to erect any such Image to God in a Christian Church He condemneth the use of Images even when they are not adored for themselves but made instruments to worship God saying Thus have they deserved to erre which sought Christ and his Apostles in painted Images and not in written bookes The same Austine writing of the manners of the Catholike Church directly severeth the case of some men who were wont to kneele superstitiously in Churh yards before the tombes of Martyrs and the painted histories of their sufferings these private mens cases he severeth from the common cause and approved practice of the Catholike Church saying Doe not bring in the company of rude mâ—n which in the true religion it selfe are superstitious I know many that are worshippers of Graves and pictures Now this I advise that you cease to speake evill of the Catholike Church by upbraiding it with the manners of those men whom she her selfe condemneth and seeketh every day to correct as naughtie children so that in Saint Austines times as is already noâ—ed Images and Image-worship were not used by any generall warranted practice if some mis-informed men used it this could not in Saint Austines opinion make it a Church duty necessary and Catholike or draw it to bee a generall custome Bellarmine answereth that Saint Austine wrote this in the beginning of his Conversion to Christianitie and that upon better information he changed his mind but he tells us not in what part of his Retractations this is to be found Divers other shifts besides are used herein and some fly to the distinction of an Idoll and an Image but that will not seâ—ve for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often translated Simulachrum a likenesse or similiâ—â—de and as eveâ—y Idoll is an Image of some thing so every Image worshipped turnes Idoll there may be some ods in the language but none in the thing it selfe Bellarmine minceth the matter and would have the Image worshipped not propeâ—ly and because of it selfe but reductively inasmuch as it doth expresse the Sampler Others hold that the Image is to bee worshipped in it selfe and with the sâ—mâ— woâ—ship that the person is which is represented so that the Crucifixe is to be reverenced with the selfe same honâ—ur that Christ Iesus is And as for the vulgar people they goe bluntly to it with downâ—right adoration Cassander saith It is more manifest than that it can bee denyed that the worship of Images and Idols hath too much prevailed and the supâ—rstitious humour of people hath beene so cockeredâ— that nothing hath beene omitted among us either of the highest adoration and vanity of Painims in worshipping and adoring Images Polydore also saith People are growne to such madnesse that there are many rude and stupid persons which adore Images of wood stone marble and brasse or paintâ—d in windowes not as signes but as though they had sense and they repose more trust in them than in Christ or the Saints to which they are dedicated Ludovicus Vives saith Saiâ—ts are esteemed and worshipped by many as were the Gods among the Gentiles Objection The honour or dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person represented or pâ—ototype as appeares by our being uncovered using reverence in the Kings Chamber of presence and before his Chaire of estate when his person is absent in like sort the honour and worship due to the Image redoundeth to Christ and his Saints now if an Image bee capable of contempt and reproach it is also capable of honour and worship Answer The Rule The dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person is true specially in civill affaires when the Party would be honoured by the Image and thus was Theodosius grieved with them of Antioch for casting downe his
a monster And it may bee some of the well-gifted moderne Doctors may see as farre as some of the ancient Friar Stella though it bee farre from him to condemne the common exposition given by the ancient holy Doctors Yet I know full well saith he that Pygmeis being put upon Gyants shoulders doe see farther than the Gyants themselves Neither doe wee speake this as if wee refused the tryall of Fathers but partly to bring the matter to a shorter issue and partly to give the word of God the foundation on which wee build our faith it 's due for we doe usuallâ— produce the Fathers testimonies thereby to shew our consent with the ancient Church PA. Will you charge the Fathers with errour PRO. The Fathers being but men have erred through oversight and affection Saint Cyprian and a whole Councell with him â—rred in the point of Rebaptization whiles through too much hatred of Heretickes they condemned the Baptisme of Heretickes as unlawfull and would have them baptized anew Origen through too much compassion of the wicked thought that the Devills themselves should bee saved at length Tertullian through spite of the Romane Cleargie revolted to the Montanists and was taken up with their idle Prophecies and revelations Divers of the Fathers were tainted with the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenaries mistaken herein in that they thought that Christians afâ—er the Resurrection should raigne a thousand yeares with Christ upon the earth and there should marry wives beget children eate drinke and live in corporall delights which errour though flatly repugnant to the Scriptures which say that in the Resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriagâ— but are as the Angels in heaven they fell into partâ—y by confâ—unding the first and second Resurrection Revel 20.5 and parâ—ly by taking that carnally which was mystically meant in the Revelations Revel 21.10 and 22.2 Besides the Fathers in the exposition of Scripture doe ofâ—entimes differ each from other as Sixtus Senensis hath observed in his Bibliothecâ lib. 5. PA. Though particular Fathers doe erre in some things yet the body of them is â—ound now we are bound to interpret the Scripture according to the joynt consent of the Fathers PRO. You have forfeited your bond for in the division of the ten coÌ„â—andements to conceale your Idolatry touching Image worship forbidden in the second you goe against the streame of antiquitie the learned Iewes the Fathers Greeke and Latine for though Saint Austin in respect of the mystery of the blessed Trinitie placed three commandements in the first table and seaven in the later yet there be a dozen of the Ancients that divide them as we doe namely the Hebrewes as Philo and Iosespus shew and amongst the Grecians Gregorie Nazianzene Origen Athanasius Chrysostome or whosoever was the Author of the worke unperfit upon Mathew amongst the Latines S. Ambrose S Hierome and one more ancient then they both to wit the Author of the questions of the old and new Testament going under Saint Austins name And for Historianâ— Sulpitius Severus in his sacred Historie and Zonaras in his Annals they be of the same mind where is now your submission to the joynt consent of the Fathers In like sort you hold that the blessed Virgin was free from all spot of Originall sinneâ— and yet the Scripture sayth That in Adam all have sinned Rom. 5.12 and your owne man Melchior Canus produceth seventeene Fathers to the contrary Sancti omnes all the holy Fathers that have mentioned this matter uno ore with one consent affirme the blessed Virgin to have beene conceived in Originall sinne And yet these be the men that crake of the unanimous consent of Fathers that the Fathers are as sure to them as Gregory the thirteenth is a loving Father to his children of the Church The truth is whatsoever they say of the Fathers to dazel the peoples eyes withall they use them as Merchants doe their Counters sometimes standing for pence sometime for pounds even as they be next and readiest at hand to make up their accounts neither are they farther entertained then they favour the keyes and authority of the Church saith Duraeus now by the Church he meanes the Roman Church And Gretsâ—r saith that if the Fathers teach otherwise than the Church namely the Roman Church then they bee not Fathers but step-fathers not Doctours but Seducers Cornelius Mus the Bishop of Bitonto sayth That in points of Faith he giveth more creâ—it to the Pope than to a thousand Austines Hieromes Gregories and yet these be the men that cry up the Fatheâ—s Now if the Fathers make so much for them or they of the Fathers how is it that they corrupt the writings of the true Fathers and devise such sleights to elude their testimonies how is it that they are driven to fly to the bastard treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias Linus Clemens S. Denys and the like Knights of the Poste brought in to depose on their behalfe though others of their owne side have cashiered them as counterfeits for instance sake amongst the Popes decretall Epistles the first of Clemens written as is pretended to Iames the brother of the Lord is vouched by Bellarmine for proofe of the Popes Supremacie as also by the Rhemists to prove that Peter promised Saint Clement that after his departure he would not cease to pray for him and his flocke now this Clement is pretended to be the same that lived in the Apâ—stles times and is mentioned by Saint Paul but it is discovered for a counâ—erfeit for in this Epistle it is said that Peter prayed Clemens to write after his death this Epistle to Iames the brother of the Lord to comfort him and Clemens did so whereas Iames was dead long before Peter about an eight yeares at least now what a sencelesse thing is this to write letters to a dead man specially knowing him to be dead and hereupon Cardinal Cusanus hath cast off this Epistle as counterfeit In deed Turrian the Iesuit striveth to defend this Epistle but yet hee cannot shew by what carryer Clement did send the letters to Saint Iames. And yet must these bee vouched under the reverent names of Saints Abdias Saint Linus Saint Clement Saint Denys beeing not much unlike as one in Budaeus compares some grave pontifician Fathers to antiques in Churches which bow and crouch under vaults and pillars and seeme to beare up the Church as sometime the Pope thought hee saw the Church of Saint Iohn Latterane totter and ready to fall had not Saint Dominick upheld it with his shoulder whereas these doe not beare up the Church but are borne out by the Church and are indeed but puppets PA. Master Wadesworth saith Hee found the Catholickes had farre greater and better armies of evident witnesses than
their râ—formation so that they were constrained to tollerate these and the like abuses insomuch that the same Austine speaking of them saith Approbare non possum I can no way allow them and yet liberius improbare non audeo I dare not freely reprove them and why lest thereby I either offend some good men or provoke some turbulent spirits And the same Father speaking of such as dranke drunke over the Sepulchers of the dead withall he addeth It is one thing that we teach another that we tollerate it is one thing that which we are commanded to teach another thing we are commanded to correct and which we are constrained to beare withall untill that it be amended Neither indeed is it to be marvailed if the learned among them and such as were lately come from the Philosophers Schooles into Christian Colledges and a people newly crept out of Paganisme I say it is not to be marvailed if they retained something of their formâ—r Tenets and customes but these are no presidents for us who have now better learned Christ Iesus For farther caution wee may make use of that rule which Bellarmine layeth downe and it is this Wee must saith hee conferre the Fathers one with another and the same Father oft times in diverse Treatises with himselfe and by those things that are clearely set downe in one place or one Fathâ—r expound those things that seeme more obscure and doubtfull in another Now wee accept of this rule and thereby defeat diverse of our Adversaries allegations for example Those words of Saint Ambrose are much pressed Benedictione natura mutatur By benediction or consecration the nature of the elements in the Lords supper is changed and yet Saint Cyrill saith as much of Baptisme namely That the Waters are changed into a divine nature They will not hence inferre a Transubstantiation in Baptisme why will they then from the like words in Saint Ambrose inferre a Transubstantiation in the Lords Supper Those wordes of Gregory Nyssen are much pressed namely Panem in corpus Christi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bread to bee changed into Christs Body Now let Nyssen expound Nyssen who in the words immediately going before saith Corpus Christi ad divinam dignitatem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Christ's body is changed or turned into a divine excellencie and yet this is done without any Transubstansiation at all In like sort that of Theophylact is much urged who saith of the Bread That it is trans-elementated into the body of Christ hee useth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now Theophylact may expound Theophylact who in the very same place saith Nos in Christum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that wee also are trans-elementated into Christ that a Christian is in a manner trans-elementated into Christ Now they will not say that wee are transubstantiated into Christ therefore neither doth Theophylact by the word Trans-elementation used of the Bread and Wine understand any substantiall but onely a Sacramentall change The like is showne in the testimonies objected out of Hilarie in the fourth age and Cyrill of Alexandria in the fifth answered by themselves Wee are to make a dfference of the Fathers age and wâ—itings as also of their gifts Saint Austin wrote more soundly than Origen though Origen were his Ancient for Origen turned almost all into Allegories yet as with Wines so in Writings usually the elder the better and the Water neere the Spring-head runnes cleare and sweet so it was with the Fathers that wrote during the first five hundred yeares next after Christ others that wrote after the first sixe hundred yeares such as Damascen Anselme and the like they were post-nati to primitive antiquitie and out of the verge of the Churches purity as also some of them partiall for so was Damascen a party in that Image quarrell in the Easterne Church and therefore in that case his testimonie is to be barred Besides for the answering of allegations out of the Fathers wee must sever the bastard treatises from the true and undoubted writings of the Fathers for example Dionysius Hierarchy is a counterfeit Clements constitutions are suspected and Cyprian de Coena domini is not Cyprians as is already shewne in the third Centurie Object If these be counterfeits how is it that your selves produce divers testimonies out of them as also out of the Commentaries of Saint Hierome and Saint Ambrose upon Saint Pauls Epistles which yet your selves doe not hold them to be Saint Hieromes and Saint Ambroses Answer It is not to bee marvelled if some of our learned Protestants admitting the bookes were written by them whose names they doe beare doe thence produce testimonies against you for it is a rule in Law Testem quem quis inducit pro se tenetur recipere contre se you have produced them for your owne benefit and theâ—efore in reason you cannot disallow of them now though it be to your great hinderance you first produced these witnesses and now that they are in the face of the Court you must give us leave to examine them upon crosse Interrogatories To close up this point the Fathers are more to bee credited when they conclude a thing de fide dogmatic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 didactic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doctrinally positively purposely by way of setting forth a matter of faith than when they write Agonistic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say by way of contention and disputation or obiter touching a point onely upon the by and as it may serve and suite with the point they have in hand without farther respect thereunto They are more to be credited when they speake Categoric 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 assertivè with asseveration than speaking onely Historic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and ex opinione aliorum relating onely the opinion of others or what was done and not delivering their owne judgement they are more to bee esteemed whâ—n they speake as Divines in a professed discourse than when they speake as Orators Poets Panegyrifts and in a popular discourse In a word wee must observe what they write out of their private opinion and what they deliver as the judgement of the Church when any of them goe alone it is not so safe following them but where wee have their unanimous and joynt consent in any materiall point wee may more securely rely upon them and this was one of King Iames his directions for Students in Divinity and I find the same rule in Vincentius Lirinensis to wit That wee may rely upon that not which one or two of the Fathers but either all or most of them have taught and that manifestly frequently and constantly PA. Although in some things the Fathers make for you yet in the point of Merit prayer for the dead and prayer to Saints they are against you they used the word Merit and held as wee doe PRO. The
Ancients used the word Merit and so also they used the termes Indulgences Satisfaction Sacrifice aâ—d Penance but quite in another sense then the later Romanists doe the Fathers who use it tooke up the word as they found it in ordinary use and custome with men in those times not for to deserve which in our language implyeth Merit of condignity but to incurre to attaine impetrate obtaine and procure without any relation at all to the dignity either of the person or the worke thus Saint Bernard concerning children promoted to the Prelacie saith They were more glad they had escaped the rod than that they had merited that is obtayned the prâ—ferment Saint Augustine saith that hee and his fellowes for their good doings at the hands of the Dâ—natists In steed of thankes merited that is incurred the flames of hatred on the other side the same Fatheâ— affirmeth That Saint Paul for his persecutions and blasphemies merited that is found grace to bee named a vessell of election Saint Gregory hath a straine concerning the sinne of Adam which is sung in the Church of Rome at the blessing of the Taper O happy sinne that merited that is Found the favour to have such and so great a Redeemer In like sort by merits they did ordinarily signifie workes as appeares by that of Saint Bernard saying The merits of men are not such that for them eternall life should bee due of right for all merits are Gods gifts Neither did the ancient Church hold merit of Condignitie but resolved according to that of Leo The measure of celestiall gifts depends not upon the qualitie of works they were not of the Rhemists opinion That good works are meritorious and the very cause of salvation so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not heaven for the same They were not so farre Iesuited as with Vasquez to hold that The good works of just persons are of themselves without any covenant and acceptation worthy of the reward of eternall life and have an equall value of condignitie to the obtaining of eternall glorie PA. You cannot denie but that prayer for the dead is ancient PRO. The manner now used is not ancient for they that of old prayed for the dead had not any reference to Purgatorie as Popish prayers are now adayes made It is true indeed that anciently they used Commemorations of the defunct neither mislike wee their manner of naming the deceased at the holy table in this sort they used a Commemoration of the Patriarks Prophets Apostles Evangelists Martyrs and Confessours yea of Mary the mother of our Lord to whom it cannot be conceived that by prayer they did wish their deliverance out of Purgatorie sith no man ever thought tâ—em to be there but if they wished any thing it was the deliverance from the power of death which as yet tyrannized over one part of them the hastning of their resurâ—ection as also a joyful publike acquitall of them in that great day wherein they shall stand to bee judged before the judge of the quicke and dead that so having fully escaped from all the consequences of sin the last enemie being then destroyed and death swallowed up in victorie they might obtaine a perfect consummation and blisse both in body and soule according to the forme of our Churches Liturgie In the Commemoration of the faithfull departed retained as yet in the Romane missall there is used this Orizon O Lord grant unto them eternall rest and let everlasting light shine unto them and againe This oblation which we humbly offer unto thee for the Commemoration of the soules that sleepe in peace we beseech thee O Lord receive graciouslie and it is usuall in the Ambrosian and Gregorian Office and in the Romane missall to put in their Memento the names of such as sleepe in the sleepe of Peace omnium pausantium and to entreate for the spirits of those that are at rest Remember O Lord thy servants and hand maides which have gone before us with the Ensigne of Faith and sleepe in the sleepe of Peace now by Pausantium Pamelius understands such as sleepe and rest in the Lord. Where we may observe that the soules unto which Everlasting blisse was wished for were yet acknowledged to rest in Peace and consequently not to be disquieted with any Purgatorie torment So that the thing which the Church anciently aymed at in her supplications for the dead was not to ease or release the soules out of Purgatorie but that the whole man not the soule separated onely might find mercie of the Lord in that day as sometime Saint Paul prayed for Onesiphorus even whiles Onesiphorus was yet alive Besides they desired a joyfull Resurrection as appeares by severall passages and Liturgies by the Aegyptian Liturgie attributed to Cyril Bishop of Alexandria where we find this Orizon Raise up their bodies in the day which thou hast appointed according to thy promises which are true and cannot lye And that of Saint Ambrose for Gratian and Valentinian the Emperours I doe beseech thee most high God that thou wouldst raise up againe those deere young men with a speedie resurrection that thou mayst recompence this untimely course of this present life with a timely resurrection As also in Grimoldus his Sacramentarie Almighty and everlasting God vouchsafe to place the body and the soule and the spirit of thy servant N. in the bosomes of Abraham Isaac and Iacob that when the day of thine acknowledgement shall come thou mayst command them to be raised up among thy Saints and thine Elect. The like is found in the Agend of the dead already mentioned PA. Invocation of Saints was anciently used PRO. I answer that though in respect of later times Prayer to Saints and some other of our adversaries Tenets may seeme ancient and gray-headed yet in respect of the first three or foure hundred yeares next after Christ they are not of that ancient standing now the true triall of antiquitie is to be takâ—n from the first and purest agâ—s for as Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which froÌ„ the Apostles so that which at fiâ—st was delivered to the Saints is truest and the good seed was first sowne and after that came the tares Besides what though some poynts in Poperie were of a thousand yeareâ— standing it is not time that can make a lye to be truth antiquitie without truth is but antiquitas erroris an ancient errour and there is no pâ—aescripâ—ion of time can hold plea against God and his truth Neither yet can you prescribe for divers Tenetâ—â— Scotus that was termed the Subtile Doctor telleth us that before the Councel of Lateran which was not till the yeare 1215 Transubstantiation was not believed as a poynt of Faith This did Bellarmine observe as
taught the same doctrine in other books also to wit De Nativitate Christi and de Animâ which are to be seene in the Libraries of the Cathedrall Church of Sarisburie and Bennet Colledge in Cambridge as the same Bishop Vsher observes PA. Was Bertram a learned man and of a good liâ—e PRO. Trithemius the Abbot gives him a large commendation For his excellent learning in Scripture his godly life his worthy Bookes and by name this of the Body and Bloud of Christ. Clodius de Sanctes â—aith Hee is put in the Catologue of Ecclesiasticall Writers for one Catholike in life and doctrine and your Brerely saith That ancient Catholike Writers doubt not to honour Bertram for a holy Martyr of their Church Now are wee come to our famous countrey-man Scotus much what of Bertrams standing and both of them in favour with Charles unto whom as Bertram Dedicated his Treatise of the Sacrament so also Ioannes Scotus wrot of the same argument and to the same effect that Bertram had done Bellarmine saith That Scotus was the first who in the Latine Church wrot doubtâ—fully of the reall presence It is indeed their fault that we have not his Booke yet may wee presume that he wrot positively neither doe we any where find that his booke of the Sacrament was condemned before the dayes of Lanfrancke who was the first that leavened the Church of England with this corrupt doctrine of the carnall presence so that all this while to wit from the yeare 876 to 1050 he passed for a good Catholike PA. Was Scotus a man of that note PRO. He was as Possevine saith Scholler to Bede Fellow-pupill with Alcuinus and accounted one of the founders of the Vniversitie of Paris and in the end dyed like a Martyr For after that he came into England and was publike Reader in Oxford by the favour of King Alfred he retired himselfe into Malmsbury Abbey and was there by his owne Schollers stabbed to death with Pen-knives and this was done saith Bale and others Fortassis non sine Monachorum impulsâ— haply not without the Monks procurement being murdered by his Schollers whiles he opposed the carnall presence which then some private persons began to set on foot By his birth he was one of the Scottish or Irish nation and is sometime called Erigena sometime Scotigena He was sirnamed Scotus the Wise and for his extraordinary learning in great account with our King Alfred and familiarly entertained by Charles the Great to whom he wrote divers letters In a word there is an old homely Epitaph which speakes what this Scotus was Clauditur hoc tumulo Sanctus Sophista Ioannes Qui ditatus erat jà m vivens dogmate miro Martyrio tandem Christi conscendere regnum Quoâ— meruit sancti regnant per saecula cuncti Vnder this stone Lyes Sophister Iohn Who living had store Of singular Lore At length he did merit Heaven to inherit A Martyr blest Where all Saints rest Or thus Here lyes interr'd Scotus the Sage A Saint and Martyr of this Age. Of Images and Prayer to Saints Ionas Bishop of Orleance who wrote against Claudius bishop of Turin in the defence of Images holds that The Images of Saintâ— and Stories of divine things may bâ—e painted in the Church not to be worshipped but to be an oâ—nament and to bring into the minds of simple people things done and past But to adore the Creature or to give it any part of divine honour we count it saith he a vile wickednesse detesting the doâ—r thereof as worthy to be accursed It is flâ—t impiete saith the same Ionas out of Origen to adore any save the Father Sonne and Holy Ghost Agobardus bishop of Lyons saith That the Ancients they had the pictures of the Saints but it was for historie sake and not for adoration and that none of thâ— ancient Catholicks haply thought that Images are to be worshipped or adored And the Orthodoxe Fathers for avoiding of superstition did carefully provide that no pictures should bee set up in Churches lest that which is worshipped should be painted on the walls Rhemigius saith That neither Images nor Angels are to be adored and Walasfridus Strabo would not have divine honour given to ought that is made by us or any other Creature Now what say the Papists to these Testimonies Baronius yeelds us Walafridus Strabo Ionas bishop of Orâ—leance Hincmarus Archbishop of Rhemes and saith That they foâ—sooke the received opinion of the Church and yet they were ever held sound Catholicks Bellarmine saith That Ionas was overtaken with Agobard his errour and other bishops of France in that Age and therefore puts in a Caveat that Ionas must bee read warily So that by their owne confession the learnedst and famousest men of this Age stand for us in this point this makes them seeke to suppresse such testimonies as are given of them Papirius Massonus set forth this booke of Agobards and delivers the argument therof to be this Detecting most manifestly the errours of the Greciâ—ns touching images pictures he to wit bishop Agobard denies tâ—at they ought to be worshipped which opinion all we Catholicks do allow and follow the testimony of Gregory the great concerning them Now this passage the Spanish Inquisitors in their expurgatorie Index Commanded tâ— bee blotted out and this is accordingly performed by the Divines of Collen in their late corrupt Edition of the great Bibliothek of the ancienâ— Fathers To close up this poynt Charles the Great was seconded by his Sonne Lewis the Godly for by his appointment the Doctors of France assembled at Paris in the yeare 842 and there condemned the adoration of Images It is not strange saith Ambrose Ansberâ—us that our prayers and teares are not offered up unto God by us but by our High Priest since that Saint Paul exhorts us to offer up the Sacrifiâ—e of Praise unto God Haymo upon those words of Isay 〈◊〉 enim Pater noster Thou O Lord art our Father Isay. 6â— ver 16. â—aith Et rectè solum invocamus ac dâ—p ecamur te And we doe right onely to invocate thee and to make our supplication to thee Of Faith and Merit Claudius Scotus saith that Faith alone saveth us because by the works of the Law no man shall be justified yet he addeth withall this caution Not as if the works of the Law should be contemned and without them a simple faith so he calleth that solitary faith which is a simple faith indeed should bee desired but that the works themselves should be adorned with the Faith of Christ. Rhemigius saith That in truth those onely are happy who are freely justified of grace and not of merit Haymo saith Wee are saved by Gods grace and not our owne merits for we have no merits at all Ambros. Ansbertus expounding that place Revel 19.
that stone then from which the water ranne bodyly Christ but it signifyed Christ. The same Abbot saith Men have often searched and doe yet often search so that it seemes that this was then in question and so before Berengarius time how bread that is gathered of Corne may be turned to Christs body or how wine that is pressâ—d out of many grapes is turned through one blessing to the Lords Bloud and the resolution returned is this Now say wee to such mâ—n that some things bee spoken of Christ by signification some thing by thing certaine true thing and certaine is that Christ was borne of a Maid Hee is said Bread by signification and a Lambe and a Lyon Hee is called Bread because hee is our life hee is said to bee a Lambe for his Innocencie But Christ is not so notwithstanding after true nature neither Bread nor a Lambe Why is then the holy Housell called Christs Body or his Bloud if it be not truely that it is called Without they be seene bread and wine both in figure and taste and they â—ee truly after their hallowing Christs body and blood through Ghostly mysterie And againe Much is betwixt the body Christ suffered in and the body that is hallowed to Housel the body truely that Christ suffered in was borne of the flesh of Mary with bloud and with bone and his Ghostly body which wee call the Housel is gathered of many Cornes without bloud and bone and therefore nothing is to bee understood therein bodily but all is Ghostly to bee understood Here wee see the body of Christ borne of the blessed Virgin the body of flâ—sh is plainly distinguished from the consecrated substance of bread or the Body Sacramentall which the Homilist cals Ghostly And againe This Mysterie iâ— a pledge and a figure Christs body is truth it selfe the pledge we doe keepe Mistically untill wee bee come to the truth it selfe and then is this pledge ended Truely it is Christs body and bloud not Bodily but Ghostly and ye should not search how it is done but hold it in your beliefe that it is so done The like matter also was delivered to the Clergie by the Bishops at their Synods out of two other writings of the same Aelfricke in the one whereof directed to Wulfsine Bishop of Shyâ—burne we reade thus That holy Housel is Christs body not Bodily but Ghostly not the body which he suffered in and so forth In the other witten to Wulfâ—tane Archbishop of York thus That lively bread is not bodily so nor the selfe-same body that Christ suffered in nor that holy wine is the Saviours bloud which was shed for us in bodily thing but in Ghostly understanding both be truely the bread his body and the wine also his bloud as was the heavenly bread which wee call Manna which words are to be seene mangled and razed in a Manuscript in Bennets Colledge in Cambridge as our learned Antiquarie of Oxford hath well observed And we may conceive it to be done by some Papist for that it plainely confutes the doctrine of Transubstantiation the best is the evidence is restored out of another Copie PA. Here is much a doe with an old Record which your selves will not haply justifie in every poynt PRO. The Record is both ancient and authenticke but to be free from errour is the priviledge of holy writ your selves stand not to all which the Fathers even of the first Age wrote Why then shâ—uld we make good all that was delivered in this later and ignorant Age so much cumbred with Monkery There are indeed in this Homily some suspicious wordes as where it speakes of the Masse to be profitable to the quicke and dead of the mixture of water with wine and a report of two vaine miracles which notwithstanding seeme to have beene infarced for that they stand in their plâ—ce unaptly and withoâ—t purpose and the matter withoâ—t thâ—m both before and afâ—er doth hang in it selfe togâ—thâ—r most ordeâ—ly besides these mistakes they are but touched by the way and aâ—e different from thâ— whole scope of the Authour Thus was Priest and people taught to believe in the Chuâ—ch of England above sixe hundâ—ed yeares agoe for this Sermon was written in the old Saxon tongue befoâ—e the Conquâ—st and appointed in the reigne of the Saxons to be spoken to the people at Easter before they should recâ—ive the Communion Neither was Aelfricke the first Authour of this Homily but the Translatour theâ—eof out of Latine into the old English or Saxon tongue the Homily it selfe was exâ—ant before his time and the resolution thereof is the same with that of Berâ—â—am and in many places directly translated out of him so that the doctrine is both ancient and Orthodoxe whereas that of Transubstantiation was not publickly taught in the Church of England till Lanfranck and others a thousand yeares after Christ came with an Italian tricke and expounded Species and forma panis for the qualities and accidents of bread without subject or substance But from the bâ—ginning it was not so Of Images and Prayer to Saints Concerning Images Churchesâ—an â—an a middle couâ—se neither rudely breaking them nor supeâ—sâ—itiously adoring them and this opinion they stoutly maintained and for some ages after continued most constant therein as Câ—ssâ—â—der sâ—ith and hee saith true as appeares by the prâ—ctise of the French in the ninth and the Almaines in the twâ—lfth Age. The Abbat Smaragdus saith that Christ onely makes Inteâ—cesâ—ion in heaven for us performing that with the Father which he pâ—titioned of the Father being both our Mediator to preferre our Petitions and our Creator to grant our râ—quâ—sts In liâ—e sort Radulphus Flaviacensis calls the Angell of the covenant Christ Iesus The Master of Requests to preferre our suits in the court of Heaven and to mediate betwixt God and men Now if he by his Fathers Patent be Master of Requests surely wee may not without Commission and warrantie out of Gods word constitute others either Saints or Angels Mediators of our Prayers Of Faith and Workes It is of necessitie that belâ—evers should bee saved onely by the faith of Christ saith Smaragdus the Abbot Who is it that can doe all that God hath commanded wee are not come to that blessednesse or merit to yeeld him obedience in all things saith Flaviacensis For as he saith One may doe bonum and not benè one without grace may doe a Morall act as give Almes the act Morally good ex genere objecto but not good ex fine circumstantijs in case it be given out of vaine glory or â—he like PA. You taxed this Age for imposing single life on the Clergie this was no Innovation PRO. In this Age there arose great contention about Priests marriage At length about the yeare 975. the matter was referred to the Roode of Grace which as the Annalists and Legendaries say returned this
answere God forbid it should be so God forbid it should bee so you have judged well once said the Roode and to change that againe is not good Now this Oracle made for Saint Dunstan and against the Priests who said this was but a subtile tricke of the Monks in placing behind the wall a man of their owne who through â— Tâ—unke uttered those words in the mouth of the Roode the matter therefore came againe to sâ—anning the Prelats and the States met at Cleve in Wiltshire where after hot and sharpe Disputation on either side a heavie mischance fell out for whether through the weakenesse of the Foundation or the overpresse of weight or both The upper Lâ—ft where the Councell sate fell downe and many of the People were hurt and some slaine outright But Dunstan the Monkes Prolocutor remained unhurt For the Post whereon his Chaire stood remained safe By this fall fell the cause of the Secular Priests and they of Dunstans side thought these rotten joysts foundation enough whreon to build their Prohibition of Marriage But Henrie Archdeacon of Huntington interprets this casualtie more probably To be a signe from God that by their Treason and murder of their King who was slaine the yeare after they should fall from Gods favour and be crushed by other Nations as in the event it prooved And thus did Dunstan by his fayned Miracles seduce King Edgar to drive out the Secular Priests whâ—re yet Dunstan haply thought not to thrust married men out of the Clergie but to thrust married Clergie men out of Cathedrall Churches because they â—equired a daily attendance as the Learned bishop Doctor Hall hath observed Howsoever it fell out it is worth the observing that the Clergy pleaded Praescription for themselves for so their owne Monke of Malmesbury hath recorded their plea they alleadged saith he That it was a great shâ—me that these upstart Monks should thrust oâ—t the ancient possessors of those places that this was neither pleasing to God who gave them that long continued habitation nor yet to any good man who might justly feare the same hard mâ—asure which was offered to them Mathew of Westminster speaking of Pope Gregorie the seaventh saith that He râ—moved married Priests from their function a new example and as many thought inconsiderately prejudicialâ— against the judgement of the holy Fathers And Henrie of Huntington saith Archbishop Anselme held a Synod at London wherein hee forbad wives to the Priests of England before not forbidden Was not this now an Innovation Besides we find that in King Edmunds reigne a West Saxon Prince before the dayes of Edgar or Dunâ—tan bishop Osulphus with Athelme and Vlricke Laicks thrust out the Monks of Evesham and placed Canons married Priests in their roome And afteâ—wards when not onely the meaner sort but the Nobles and great ones â—ided even then also Alferus a Mercian Duke favouring the cause of married Priests cast out the Monks and restored againe the ancient revenewes to the Clerks and it seemes they were the ancient owners and others but incommers inasmuch as divers Cathedrall Churches originally were founded in married Cleargy-men and afterwards translated from them to Monks as appeares by that which the Monks of Worcester wrote under their Oswald Archbishop of Yorke Per me fundatus Fuit ex Clericis Monachatus That is By me were Monks first founded out of Cleâ—ks So that the Monks were not the first possessors but came in by such as Dunstan who wrought with that good King Edgar by dreames visions and miracles mostly tending to Monkery as namely that When the Devill in the likenesse of a faire woman tempted Dunstan to lâ—st he caught him by the nose with an hot paire of tongs and made him roare out for mercie that Eastwardâ— That Dunstans harpe hanging upon the wall played by 〈◊〉 selfe the tune of the Anthem Gaudent in coelis animae Sanctorum By the meanes of this Dunstan and his Cousins Athelwold and Oswald King Edgar was set on worke for the building of religious houses wherein he surpasâ—ed Charles the Great for whereas he built as many as there be letters in the Alphabet or A. B. C. King Edgar as appâ—ares by the Chartâ—r of the foundation of Worcester Church he built almost as many as there be Sundayes in the yeare I have made saith he 47 Monasteries and I intend if God grant life to make them up fiftie which seemes to be the number that Dunstan set him for his penance THE ELEVENTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 1000. to 1100. PAPIST YOu said of the last Age that Satan was let loose was he bound in this PROTESTANT Hee that brake loose in the former tyrannâ—zed in this for now those two great Enemies of the Church the Pope and the Turke the one in the East and the other in the West began to rise to their greatnesse about the yâ—are 1075 lived Pope Hildebrand who forbad marriage and deposed Kings from their lâ—wfull thrones so that for his doctrine the Churches did ring of him for an Antichrist In their Sermons saith Aventine boâ—n about the yeare 1466 they declared him to be Antichâ—ist that under the title of Christ he playd the part of Antichrist That he sits in Babylon in the Temple of God and is advanced above all that is called God as if he were God he glorifieth that he cannot erre This fine man denyes those Priests which have lawfull wives to be Priests at all in the meane time he admits to the Altar Whoremongers Adulterers Incestuous persons and afterwards Everard Bishop of Saltzburg in Germanie in an assembly at Regenspurge spake thus of the Pope Hildebrand under colour of Religion layd the foundation of Antichrist's kingdome thus doth that child of perdition whom they use to call Antichrist in whose forehead is written the name of blasphemie Revel 13.2 I am God I cannot erre he sits in the Temple of God and beareth rule far and neere Now began the Croisier staffe to beate downe Crownes and Scepters when Hildebrand deposed the Emperour Henry the fourth and yet this fact of his was opposed and condemned by divers worthy Councels Bishops and Historians both in France and Germany and the like Papall Vsurpations Appeales and Investitures were also resisted in England Hubert your Legate saith William the Conquerour in his letter to Gregory the seventh came unto me warning me from your Holinesse that I should doe fealty to you and your successors as for fealty I neither would doe it to you neither will I because I neither promised it my selfe nor doe I find that my predecessors have done that to your predecessors When Anselme an Italian was chosen Archbishop of Canterbury he craved leave of king William the second to goe to Rome to receive his Pall of Pope Vrban wherewith the King greatly offended answered That no Archbishop nor bishop in
not temporall possessions and yet are rightfully held according to Wickliffâ—s tenure by Ecclesiasticall Ministers and long might they and peaceably enjoy them for him in as ample manner as ever they did so long as they were well imployed according to the will and purpose of the Donours willing nothing contrary to Gods Word But for the lands belonging to so many Chaunteries Abbeyes Friaries Priories Monasteries and other religious houses hee was of opinion that Kings might dispossesse them of them and give them genti facienti justitiam to good and godly uses Concerning the other part of the objection Wickliffe indeede commends a kind of Evangelicall poverty and withall alleadgeth that of Saint Paul to Timothy That we are to be apaid that is contented if we have lifelode that is living and to be hiled that is covered withall to wit with food and raiment neverthelesse he did not debarre Ministers from actuall having but from affecting the things of the world which were to be renounced per cogitationem affectum in mind and affection as he saith Lastly touching begging he was so farre from joyning himselfe to the begging â—riâ—râ— and their order that he wrote a set Treatise against their order as also he put up a petition to the Parliament against them PAP Wickliffe and his disciples went bare-footed and basely clothed in course russet garments downe to the heeles PROT. Wickliffe went well apparrelled and kept a good table of that which was his owne insomuch as hee professeth that Hee feareth not any thing will be so much layd to his charge as that hee spends that in good fare and apparrell which might be bestowed on the poore PAP Wickliffe held that tithes were meere Almes and that for the lewdnesse of the Priests the parishioners might detayne their tithes at at their pleasure PROT. Wickliffe lived in a time wherein he saw tithes oblations and the Churches revenues spent in riot and luxury the cure of soules neglected and the poore unreleived and seeing this great abuse of tithes hee let some inconsiderate speeches fall touching tithes so that whereas hee seemeth to be against tithes it is to be understood against tithes as then they were abused by Friers for Friers then had power from the Pope to appropriate tithes to their Covents by which meanes tithes came into their possession This thing Wickliffe thought unlawfull and would have had tithes reduced to their ancient use againe Besides Wickliffe would nether have tithes taken from the Church nor yet from the Incumbent but in some cases not from the Church for his rule was that prediall tithes were not to be taken from the Churcâ— since they belong to the same yea he chaâ—rges the people in â—alutem animae upon paine of their salvation to pay their tithes duâ—ly and â—ruely unto their Parson neither would he have them paid to a good Minister onely but to others also unlesse the fact were vâ—ry â—candalâ—us and notorious and thereof hee would â—ot have the people but the Prelats and superiors to judge and censure And in case the party delinquent be either so vicious a man of life or doctrine as that there is no hope of his amendment or else hath committed some such fact as wilfull murder or Treason whereby he is ipso facto depriveable in law the tithes are not to be quite taken away from the Church but to be sequestred as it were for the next Incumbent and he gives instance in Elies sonnes PAP Wickliffe taught that All things come to passe by absolute necessity which is Stoicall PROâ— Wickliffe telleth us that Gods promises and threatnings are conditionall and that as God hath appointed the end so he hath appointed the meanes of our salvation but notwithstanding he grants such a necessity yet he addes quamvis omnia futura de necessitate eveniant Deus tamen vult quod bonâ— serviâ— suis eveniant per medium quo oratur PAP He condemned lawfull Oathes savouring therein saith Osâ—ander of Anabaptisme PROT. Had Osiander seene Wickliffes Latin exposition vpon the third Commandment and his booke of the truth of the Scripture or his treatise against Aâ—quivocation he would have beene of another mind for therein he plainely shewes the contrary condemning equivocall propositions whether with Oath or withouâ— Oath willing men not for a world of worlds or for the salvation of his owne or anothers soule to lie and equivocate And elsewhere he saith God teaches to sweare by him in neede and not by his creatures whereby it appeares that Wickliffe was no usuall dissembâ—er of his faith as Mr. Brerely would have it PAP Wickliffe inveied against the Church for that hee had beene deprived by the Archbishop of Canterbury from a certaine Benefice PROT. Because he was deprived of his Benefice he wrote against the Church by the like reason because hee was preferred to another Benefice in Leicester-shire where hâ— dyed therefore he should not have inveighed against the Church But I should thinke that the great Iohn of Gaunt Duke of Lancaster might have helped him to a small head-ship of Canterbury Colledge in Oxford For Parsâ—ns confesseth that Wickliffe was in great favour with the Duke and publikely borne out by him and the Duke as thâ— same Parsons saith Governed all in the later dayes of his Father King Edward the third and was also in good favour with his Nephew King Richard the second all the time that Wickliffe lived so that in all likelyhood he might have helpt him to the Bishopricke of Worcester Besides if Wickliffe as Parsons saith contemned all temporall goods aâ—d adjoyned himselfe to the begging Friers what made him then affect the Bishopricke of Worcester Well but the missing of these places provoked him to inveigh against the Church so was Ierome provoked by the Cleargy of Rome and this sharpned his stile against them and yet are not Saint Hiâ—romes workes any whit the more misliked Lastly hee inveighed not against the Church for he protesteth that he did as neere as hee could both write and speake and doe all things ad Honorem Dei utilitatem Ecclesiae for the glory of God and the benefit of his Church The occasion of Wickliffes discontent I finde to be this Simon Langham Archbishop of Canterbury sequestred the fruites of the Benefice of Pagham from Canterbury Colledge and withall molested the Schollers there intending to displace them all and to put in Monkes which in the end he brought to passe Now Wickliffe was one of them that were thus displaced having withstood the Archbishop in this businesse with might and maine but by the Popes favour and the Archbishops power the Monkes overbore Wickliffe and his fellowes PAP You have spoken enough of Wickliffe and his Disciples what were those Lollards you mentioned PROâ— They were a company of true and godly professours â—ome have conceited them to
which their Generall Zisca built as a Ciâ—ie of refuge for his men These Thaborites disâ—ented more from the Church of Rome aâ—d came indeed neerer to the puritie of the Gospell then the rest of the Hussites There is in Cochleus a confession of faith made by one Iohn Pezibram a Bohemian who speaking of these Thaborites recordeth these following to have beene some of their tenets namely That materiall Bread remaines in the Sacrament and herein they were very confident insomuch as Procopius one of their Governours saidâ— That if an hundred Doctors should hold the contrary hee would tâ—ll them to their face they were all mistaken Thâ—y held That the Saints now triumphant are not to be prayed unto Hâ—sse his schollers after his death brake downe Images in Churches and Monasteries Prateolus saith They denied Purgatory and by consequent Prayer for the dead They maintained Communion in both kinds to be administred to the Lay-people They held That Christ is the head of the Church and not the Pope as also that the Pope might erre and that divers Popes had beene Heretikes They held The holy Scriptures to bee the Iudge in point of controversie Lastly Husse was condemned by the Councell of Constance for holding That the Congregation of the Predestinates and Elect were the Church of God which yet was the selâ—e same doctrine which Gregory the Great taught For hee held the Church of God to consist of right Beleevers saying That Christ according to the grace of his fore knowledge hath built his holy Church of Saints which shall continue for ever and that All the Elect are contained within the compasse and circuit of the Church and all the Reprobates are without because they doe but only in outward shew come â—o the kingdome of grace So that Gregory saith as well as Husse That the Elect onely are of the Church Now as learned Doctor Field saith This was the meaning of Wickliffe Husse aâ—d others who say that the Elect only are of the Church defining the Church to bee the multitude of the Elect not for that they thinke them only to pertaine to the Church and no others but because they onely pertaine unto it principally fully effectually and finally and in them onely is found that which the calling of grace whence the Church hath all her being intendeth to wit such a conversion to God as is joyned with finall perseverance whereof others failing and comming short they are only in an inferiour and more imperfect sort said to bee of the Church PA. Did the doctrine of Husse and his followers continue any long time PRO. It continneth even unto this day for Cochleus in the yeare 1â—34 Wisheth that he may see the remainders of the Hussites to râ—turne to the Church and the Germans to cast out all nâ—w sâ—cts whereby it is cleere that Husses doctrine was sensibly and apparantly continued not onely unto the dayes of Luthâ—r who began not to show himselfe till the yeare 1517 but even after his time also PA. Had the Hussites any Bishops or Priests of their owne lawfully calleâ— PRO. Hussâ— and Hâ—erome were Priests themselves and whiles they lived they had Priests and Preachers and after their death theâ—r follower Got them a Bishop who was Suffâ—agan to the Archbishop of Prague and by him thâ—y put iâ—to holy Orders as many Clerkes as they would which thing the Archbishop tooke so ill that hâ—e suspended his Sâ—ffragan But it was not long afâ—er that Conradus the Archbishop himselfe became a follower of Husse likewise and under this Conrad President of the Convocation the Hussites held a Councel at Prague and there they compileda Confâ—ssion of their Faith which the said Archbishop and divers Barons of Bohemia did afterwards resoluâ—ely maintaine Besides Sigismund the Emperour in a treaty with the Bohemians Granted that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians even Hussites which were of the Vniversitie of Prague PA. Were there many that followed Husse and were they of the better sort or onely some meane persons PRO. They were neither few nor base had they beene few what needed the Pope call the great Councâ—l of Constance against them What needed Pope Martâ—n the fift publish and proclaime a Croysado against them promising remission of sinne to all such as did either fight against them or contributed towards the warres Our rich Cardinal Henry Beaufort was sent into Germany by the Pope in the yeare 1429 to raise forces against the Hussites in Bohemia Cochleus saith There were forty thousand German Horsemen gathered together to destroy them but upon their approach the Germans turned their backes and fled not without some secret judgement of God as he thinkes Sylviusâ—aith â—aith There were three severall Armies levied against the Hussites entring Bohemia in three places but as thâ— story saith Non visum hostem fugerunt they â—led before they did see the enemie and againe the second timâ— Priusquam hostis ullus daretur in conspectus foedissima coepta fuga they fled away with shame before any enemy came to fight and left their Tents to the Bohemians insomuch as Iulian Cardinal of Saint Angelo marvailes exceedingly at this their sodaine feare and shamefull flight When Pope Eugenius had sent the same Cardinal Iulian his Legate to the Councel of Basil and presently after sent him commandment to dissolve it Iulian laied open unto him by letters how great an injurie he should doe himselfe and brought many reasons against it among others this that the Bohemians who had beene called thither would by good right say Is not heere the finger of God to bee seene Behold Armies have so often fled from before them and now the Vniversall Church also flâ—â—th behold they can neither be overcome with Armes nor by Lâ—arning this must needs appeare a miracle wrought by God to declare that their opinion is true and ours false Neithâ—r were the Hussites any such meane persons for eâ—en the Nobles of Bohemia sent two solemne Ambasâ—ages to the Councel of Constance in the behalfe of Husse and when the Councell neglected their request and dealt ill with them burning their Pastour Husse notwithstanding his safe conduct given him by the Empâ—rour then indeed they defended themselves undâ—r thâ— conduct of Iohn Zâ—scay their Geâ—erall who at one time led foâ—â—â— thoâ—sand â—ouldiers into the field and had such successe in his enterpâ—ises that Aeneas Sylvius reports of him That eleven times in fought battailes hee returned Conquerour out of the field Yea Cochleus wondereth at the strange successe he had saying That scant any historie of the Greekes or Latins or Hebrewes doth mention such a Generall a Zisca was Now for thâ—ir visible Congregations there needes no other Testimonie than this when the Councel of Constance had robbed them of their Minister Husse and nimmed from them the blessed Cup of
of words as was fit or savoring of too much passion and violence and yet for all this both Gerson and Wicklâ—ffe be good men and worthy guides of Gods Church in their times And so I come from Gerson to Cameracensis from the Scholler to the Master for Petrus de Alliaco is willingly and respectfully acknowledged by Gerson to have been his Tutour and Instructer Petrus de Alliacâ— gave a Tâ—act to the Councell of Constance touching the Reformation of the Church there doth hee reprove many notable abuses of the Romanists and giveth advise how to represse them this treatise of the Cardinals is extant in Orthuinus Gratius his Fasciculus rerum expetendarâ—â— fugiendarum paginâ 206. c. There should not be multiplyed saith hee such variety of Images and Pictures in the Church there should not be so many Holy dayes there shâ—uld not bee so many Saints canonized such numbers and variety of religious persons is not expedientâ— there are so many orders of begging Friers that their state is burthensome to men hurtâ—ull to Hospitals and to the poore He saith that it was then a Proverbe The Church is come to that estate that it is not worthy to be ruled but by Reprobates yet withall he concludeth That as there were seven thousand who had not bowed to Baal so it is to be hoped there bee some which desire the reformation of the Church Now also lived Archdeacon Clemangies who in a set treatiâ—e freely painted forth the corrupt state of the Roman Church He wrote an Epistle to Gerard Maket a Doctor of Paris the argument whereof is this That wâ—e are not onely to depart from Babylon with our affections but with our bodily fecte now hee that commands this of such a place what dost thou thinke saith the same Clemangies hee would have said of that wherein not onely sound doctrine is not received but where such are cruelly persecuted as contradict their wâ—ls yea rather their madnâ—sse Speaking of their votaries hee saith What I pâ—ay yoâ— are Numeries now a dayes but Brâ—thel-houses and common Stews the harbours of wanton men where they satisfie their lusts that now the vayling of a Nunne is all one as if you prostituted her openly to bee a Whore Hee spoke excellently also in the matter of Generall Councels and so did Cardinall Câ—sanus who treating of Councels and the Pope delivereth these positions following That it is without all question that a Generall Councell properly taken is both superiour to the rest of the Patriarkes and also to the Roman Pope I beleeve saith Cusanus that to be spoken not absurdly that the Emperour himselfe in regard of the â—are and custody of preserving the faith committed unto him may Praeceptive indicere Synodum by his imperiall authority and command assemble a Synode when the great danger of the Church requireth the same Negligenâ—e aut contradicente Romano Pontifice The Pope either neglecting so to doe or resisting and contradicting the doing thereof Hee saith That the Romane Bishop hath not that power which many flatterers heape upon him to wit that hee alone is to determine and others only to consult or advise Whiles we defend saith Cusanus That the Pope is not universall Bishop but only the first Bishop â—ver others and whiles wee ground the power of sacred Councels upon the consent of the whole assembly and not upon the Pope wee maiâ—â—taine truth and give to every one his due honour and then concluding the former positions the Cardinall saith I observe little or nothing in ancient Monuments which agreeth not to these my assertions Now also lived Laurence Vaâ—la a learned man and a most excellent Divine as Trithemiâ—s calleth him hee was a Roman Patrician and Chanon of the Cathedrall Church of Saint Iohn of Laterane in Rome hee wrote a treatise of purpose against the forged donation of Constantine whereby the Pope challengeth his pretended Iurisdiction Hee pronounceth of his owne experience That the Pope himselfe doth make warre against peaceable people and soweth â—iscord betweene Cities and Princes that the Pope makes gaines not onely of the commâ—n wealth but even of the state Ecclesiasticall and of the hâ—ly Ghost aâ—d that later Ropes laboured to bee as foolish and wicked aâ— the ancient ones were holy and wise For this and the like freenesse of his speech and pâ—â—â— hee was dâ—iven into exile by the Pope I know indeed that Master Brereley is offended with us for challenging Cusâ—â—â—â— and Valla as witnesses on our behalfe and therefore hee would make his Reader beleeve that Valla being an eager enemy to the Pope can not bee an indifâ—erent witnesse but rather a partie and that both oâ— them retracted their opinions and submitted themselves to the Catholike Church and so they might without yeelding to the Romish faction hee saith they retracted but hee cannot tell when or before whom this Recantation was made or written perhaps it is written on the backe side of Constantines Donation Neither have wee corrupted Valla to make him a partie for us hee was an honest man and we take his testimony as it is recorded and commeth 〈◊〉 our hands he was not an enemy to the Pope but to the forgeries of the papacie and this madethem billet his name amongst such bookes as are forbidden and prohibited In the later end of this age lived Baptista Mantuanus and Franciscus Picuâ— Eaâ—le of Mirandula the Oration of Picus in the Councell of Lateran is extant wherein besides his taxing the behaviour of the Clergie hee useth these words That piety is almost sunke into superstition Hee held not the Popes sentence for an infallible Oracle of truth for hee saith that if the greater part offer as was done in the Councell at Ariminum which stood for the Arrian heresie to decree ought againsâ— the Scriptures wee are not in this case to follow the most voices but to joyne our selves with the lesser numbâ—r being sound in faith Yea we are rather saith he to beleeve a plaine countreyâ—man a child or an old woman if they speake according to the Scriptures rather than the Pope and a thousand of his Prelates speaking against the word of God That the Pope may erre hee sheweth by this Similitudeâ— Even as the naturall head may be sicke and noysome humours may flow from the braine into thâ— body Even so this Deputy-head to wit â—he Pope may be sicke and from hiâ— head-ship naughty opinions saith hee may bee derived and conveied inâ—o the body of the Church Hee was one who desired the Churches reformation for in the foresaid Oration in the Lateran Councell hee wisheth That the copies of the old and new Testament were compared with the ancient and best Originals and purged from such faults as they have contracted through trâ—ct of time or the neglect of the Transcribers and that the true and authenticke Histories were severed from the
Apocryphall Baptista Mantuan was a famous Poet and Historian and Prior of the Carmelite Friers he is commended by Trithemius for a great Divine and an excellent Philosopher he is very sharpe against the Romanists as may appeare by these few instances following Tyrij vestes venalia nobis Templa Sacerdotes Altaria Sacra Coronae Ignis â— hura Preces Coelum est venale Deusqueâ— That is Temples and Priests Altars and Crownes they sell for pelfe Fire Frankincence Prayers Heaven and God himselfe Whereby he haply meant their breaden God in the Masse Mantuan saith as followeth of Hilarie a married Bishop and Bishop of Poictiers in France Non nocuit â—ibi progenies non obstitit uxor Legitimo conjuncta thoro non herruit illâ Tempestate Deus thalamos connubia taedâ—s That is Thy off-spring was no prejudice to thee Nor could thy lawfull wife an hindrance be In those dayes God allow'd the Marriage bed To Priests their cradles and the lamps which led To Hymens rites Of the Woman Pope he saith as followeth Hic pendebat adhuc sexum mentita virilem Foemina cui triplici Phrygiam diademate mitram Extollebat apex Pontificalis adulter That is Here yet her statue hung who faign'd Her selfe to bee a man who 's fam'd The Purple-triple Crowne t' have bore And last was prov'd a Popish Whore Where it may bee the Poet meant thâ—t at that time there remainâ—d the Statue or Picture in Rome resembling the Woman Pope travailing with Child or the statue or seate whereon the new Pope sate to try that he was a man and no woman according to that of Henry Stephens in his Apologie for Herodotus Cur etiam nostro jam hic mos tempore cessat Ante probet quod se quilibet esse marâ—m The same Mantuan glanceth at their manner of such frequent repetitions as they used in their Prayers as if God were served by reckoning up their Muttering upon a payâ—e of Beades for so he termeth it Qui filo insertis numerant sua murmura baccis Now also lived Iohn of Vesalia a Doctor and Preacher at Wormes he held That the best Interpreters oâ— the Scriptures expound one place by another because men obtaine not the spirit of Christ but by the spirit of Christ. That the Doctors be they never so holy are not to be beleeved for themselves and the Glosse as little That the Elect are saved onely by the mercie of God That Popes Indulgeâ—ces auricular Confession and Pilgrimages to Rome aâ—e vaine For holding these and the like propositions he was sharply handled by the Inquisitours he is charged by Parsons but unjustly to have held the old errour of the Greâ—kes Who deny the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Sonne as well as the Father There lived at the same time but somewhat younger Doctor Wesellus of Gronning in Frizâ—land hee was called Lux Mundi the light of that Age. He wrote a set treatise of Papall Pardons and Indulgences and therein he saith grounding his speech on Gersons testimonie that Papall Indulgences and Pardons are not so sure a token of the remissâ—on oâ— a mans sinne as is the true contrition of heart He saith that The ancient Doctors wrote nothing expressely of Popes Pardons because this abuse was not crept into the Church in the dayes of Saint Austine Ambrose Hierome and Gregorieâ— And having consulted both with Civilians and Canonists he cannot find them to make Iubilees and Pardons ancienter than Pope Boniface the eight who lived about the yeare 1300. It is now time to looke homeward and to acquaint the Reader with our home-bred Confessours and Martyrs I will begin with the raigne of King Henry the fourth who was I take it the first English King that put any to death for denying the Romish doctrine for after that Richard the second was deposed and that this Henry came violently to the Crowne he was willing to keepe in with the Clergie who in those times baâ—e great sway In this Kings raigne William Sawtree a Priest was burnt for denying the reall presence and so also was Iohn Badby burnt for being a Wicklevist or Lollard as they termed iâ— William Thorpe Priest and Iohn Purvey were persecuted for the doctrine of the Sacrament Waldensis callâ—d this Purvey The Lollards Library and a Glosse upon Wickliffe Now these men were not voyd of Learning and knowledge for Sawtree was an Oxford Divine Thorpe was Fellow of our Queenes Colledge in Oxford Purvey was Master of Arts in Canterbury Colledge and wrote a Commentarie on the Apocalypse whiles he was in Prison In the time of King Henry the fifthâ— Sir Iohn Old Castle was a chiefe Favourer of the Wickliffians This Sir Iohn by his Marriage contracted with a Kinswoman of the Lord Cobhams of Câ—uling in Kent obtained the title thereof Hee was as Frier Walsingham a peevish enemy of his saith A very valorous Gentleman and in speciaâ—â— favour with his Prince for his honest Conversation though held in some jealousie in point of Religion He wrote his beliefe which was very Christian-like but the Prelates accepted not of it so that divers crimes were devised against him and at last he was pronounced an Hereticke in the poynt of the Sacrament and was executed by the Statute of Lollardie Walsingham saith That this Sir Iohn being brought before the Arch-bishop of Canteâ—bury he tooke out of his bosome A copie of the Coâ—fession of his Faith and delivered it to him to reade which the Arch-bishop having read said That it contained in it much good and Catholicke matter but yet hee must satisfie him touching other poynts the same Walsingham saithâ— that It was alleadged against him that he held and taught touching the Sacrament of the Altar and Penance Pilgrimages Adoration of Images and the Power of the Keyes otherwise than the Church of Rome taught saith They constantly endured their death Whiles Savonarola was in durance hee wrote excellent meditations upon the Psalmes and therein in the matter of free Iusâ—ification he is very sound and clâ—are on our side The Eâ—le of Mirandula accounted him an holy Prophet and dâ—sâ—nded him and his Writings the like also did that rare Scholler Marsilius Ficinus Philip de Commiâ—â—es that â—xcellent States-man and Histoâ—ian was well acqâ—ainted with him and had often conference with hâ—m For my part saith hee I hold him to bee an honest man and a good hee coâ—nted him also to have had the spirit of pâ—ophecie inasmuch as hee foretold many things which in event â—roved true yea such thiâ—gs as no mortall man could naturally have knowne For hee foretold the French King my Master saith Comminees that after his sons death the King himselfe should not long survive him and these his Letters to the King my selfe have read PA. Parsons saith That Savonarola was put to death for moving and maintaining of sedition in the Common-wealth of Florence though
in all matters of Religion he agreed fully with the Catholike Roman Church PRO. What his Religion was let his owne workes testifie Guicciâ—rdine saith that amongâ—â— other things hâ—e was charged That his doctrine was not fully Catholike hee meaneth Roman Catholike and Comminees saith That one of the Frier Minorites his professed adversary charged him to be an Heretike so that in his opinion he was not in each point a Roman Catholike And to take the Popes procesâ—e which was published against him as wee find it in Guicciardine Therein it is given out that Savonarola had a holy desire that by his meanes a Generall Councell might be called wherein the corrupt customes of the Clergy might bee reformed and the estate of the Church of God so farre wandred and gone astray might bee reduced so farre forth as was possible to the likenesse of that it was in the Apostles time or those that were neerest unto them and if he could bring so great and so profitable a worke to effect hee would thinke it a farre greater glory then to obtaine the Pope-dome it sâ—lfe in the same Processe it is contained how hee despised the Popes commandements and returned publikely to his olâ— office of preaching affirming that the Popâ—s censures published against him were unjust and of no force as also that the matters by him prophesiâ—d were not pronounced by divine revelation but by his proper opinion grounded upon the doctrine and observation of holy Scripture And now let the Reader consider by that which Guicciardine reports of Savonarola and namely touching the opinion he had of the Popes authoritie and his excommunications touching generall Councels and the deformitie and degeneration of the Churches state in respect of antiquitie as also what Comminees saith of his preaching of the Reformation of the Church and that by the Sword as formerly our Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne foretold and then let him judge of what profession he was likely to be Now for the poynt of faction and sedition It is true indeâ—d that there was a great faction in Florence not onely amongst the Laity but the Spiritualty alâ—o but it doth not appeare that Hierome was the Author or nourisher of this discord or that he had any hand in that tumult wherein Francisco Valori a principall favourer of Savonarola was slaine When Saint Paul preached the Gospel in Asia the whole Citty of Ephâ—sus was full of confusion and they rushed into the Common place and caught Gajus and Aristarchus Pauls companions of his journey Act. 19. ver 29. Was Paul or his companions the occasion of this tumult Savonarola preached the word of God in Florence his adversaries tooke Armes entred the Monasterie of Saint Marke where hee was and drew him and two of his brethren Dominick and Silvester out of the Covent and put them into the common prisons upon occasion of a mutinie in the Citie but Hierome and his fâ—llowes occasioned not this tumult It was indeed pâ—â—tended thaâ— he sided with the one faction in Florence but Philip de Comminees who knew him better than Paâ—sons toucheth that which brought the Frâ—er to the sâ—ake namâ—ly In that hee prophâ—sied and that so vehemently and freely of the comming in of forraine forces and of a King that by force of Armes should reforme the corrupt state of the Church and chastise the Tyrants of Italy this was it saith he which made the Pope and the state of Florence hate him Thus have we heard of his life and death there remaineth nothing now but his Epiâ—aph wherewith Flaminius a famous Poet of Italy hath honoured him And thus it is Dum fera flaâ—ma tuos Hieronyme pascitur artus Religio flevit dilaniâ—ta comas Flevit et ô dixit crudeles parcite flammae Paâ—ite sunt isto viscera nostra rogo That is Whiles Hiâ—rome to the firy stake was led Religion tore her haire and wept and said You cruell flames oh spare this tender heart For whiles he burns Religion feels the smart And so I proceed to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Geâ—son makes the word of Christ the sole authenticall ground of faith and the onely infallible rule to decide controvâ—rsies The Scriptures saith he is given unto us as a sufficient and infallible Rule for the governement of the whole body of â—he Church and each part thereof unto the end of the world What evill saith the same Gerson hath followed upon the contempt of holy Scripture which doubtlesse is sufficient for the government of the Church for otherwise Christ had beene an unperfect Law giveâ— experâ—eâ—ce will teach That Wickliffe affirmeth that nâ—ither Friers nor Prelates may define aâ—y thing in matters of faith unlesse they have the auâ—hority of sacred Scripture or some speciall revelation I dislikâ— not saith Waldensis but his waywardnesse and craft I condemne and thinke it necessary lest wee wrest the Scâ—â—ptures and erre in the interpretation of them to follow the â—radition of the Church expounding them unto us and not to trust to our own private singular conceits This is that which Vincentius Lirinensis long since delivered Alphonsus Tostatus saith Although the bookes in question bee received of the Church yet are thâ—y not of any solide auâ—hority and thâ—refore they are improfitable to prove and confirme those things which are called in question according to Saint Hierome Thomas Waldensis cites out of Hierome the Canâ—n of the old Testament in these words As there are twâ—nty two letters by which we write in Hebrew all that we speake so there are accounted twenty two bookes by which as letters wee are instructed in the doctrine of God and withall addeth That the whole Canonicall Scripture is contained in the two and twenty bookes Dionysius Carthusiâ—nus in writing upon Ecclesiasticus saith That booke is not of the Conon that is amongst the Canonicall Scriptures although there be no doubt made of the truth of that booke This is likewise confessed by Pererius the Iesuite saying Dionysius Carthusianus and Lyra doe not deny the History of Susanna to be true but they deny the bookes of Iudith Tobit and the Maccabees to apertaine to the Cononicall Scriptures And the like observation touching Lyra is made by Picus Mirandula and Picus himselfe would have us note that many things which in the Decrees are reckoned for Apocryphall and so accounted by Hierome are neverthelesse read in the Divine Service and many things also which some hold not to bee truâ— Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments The Councel of Constance did not simply forbid the ministring of the Sacrament in both kinds but the teaching of the people that of necessity it must be so ministred for so we find in the thirteenth Session of the said Councel That if any should obstinately maintaine that it was unlawfull or â—rronious to receive in one kind he ought to be punished
acts of pietie and devotion without these frivolous Additions Gabriel Biel in his Lectures upon the Canon of the Masse saith That the Saints in Heaven by their naturall knowledge which is the knowledge of things in their proper kinde know no Prayers of ours that are here upon earth neither mentall nor vocall by reason of the immoderate distance that is betwixt us and them Secondly That it is no part of their essentiall beatitude that they should see our prayers or our other actions in the eternall word and thirdly That it is not altogether certaine whether it doe appertaine to their accidentall felicity to see our Prayers At length he concludeth That it may seeme Probable that although it doe not follow necessarily upon the Saints beatitude that they should heare our Prayers of congruitie yet it may seeme probable that God revealeth unto them all those suits which men present unto them By this we see that for the maine Gabriel concludeth that the Saints with God doe not by any power of their owne by any naturall or evening knowledge whatsoever understand our prayers mentall or vocall they and we are dâ—sparted so farre asunder as there can not bee that relation betweene us so that wee might haply call and they not bee Idonei auditores not at hand to heare us Now as learned Master Mountague now Lord Bishop of Chichester saith The Saints their naturall or evening knowledge onely is that which wee must trust unto as being a lonely in their power to use and to dispose and of ordinary dispensation In a word Peter Lombard saith It is not incredible that the soules of Saints heare the prayers of the suppliants Biel saith as we have heard That it is not certaine but it may seeme probable that God reveleth unto Saints all those suits which men present unto them here is nothing but probability and uncertainâ—y nothing whereon to ground our praying to Saints Of Iustification and Merits Trithemius the Abbot who lived in this age complaines that Aristotle and the heathen Philosophers were oftner alleadged in the Pulpit than Saint Peter and Saint Paul and therefore hee disswades his friend Kymolanus from too much study of profane sciences Let us saith hee seeke after true and heavenly wisedome which consisteth in faith onely in our Lord Iesus Christ working by love Cardinall Cusanus in a treatise of his De pace fidei brings in Dialogue-wise Saint Peter and Saint Paul instructing the severall nations of the world Greekes and Arabians the French and the Almanies Tartarians and Armenians and there in that conference hee laboureth to bring them to an agreement In pace fidei in the unity of faith and amongst other things he proves at large That wee are justified only by faith in Christ and not by any merit of our owne workes The doctriâ—e of free Iustification is excellently handled by Savonarola in his meditations upon the fiftieth Psalme which Possevine acknowledgeth to be composed by him whiles hee was in durance the day before hee was led to the stake Vpon occasion of those woâ—ds of the Psalmist They gat not the land in possâ—ssion through their owne sword neither was it their oâ—ne arme that helped them but thy right hand and thine arme and the light of thy countenance because thou hadst a favour unto them Psalm 4â— ver 3.4 â—e sweetly commâ—nteth on this sort Thou â—avâ—uredst them that iâ— they were not saved by their owne merits or workes lâ—st they should glory thâ—â—ein but even because of thy goâ—d will and pleâ—sure Vpon occasion of that Petition of the Lords prayer Forgive as our trespasses hee renounceth all merit of his owne workes and professeth in the words of the Pâ—ophet Esay That all our righteousnesse is as the rags of a menstruous woman Picus Mirandula treating on the same Petition saith it is certaine that wee are not saved for our owne merits but by the onely meâ—cy of our God Gerson taught that wee are not justified by the perfection of any inherent qualitie that all our inherent righteousnesse is imperfect yea that it is like the polluted rags of a menstruous woman that it cannot endure the triall of Gods severe judgement even Esay himselfe with the rest became vile in his owne eyes and pronounceth this lowly confession all our righteousnesse is as filthy rags The Cardinall of Cambray proveth by many reasons and authorities of Scripâ—uâ—e That no act of ours from how great charity soever it proceed can merit eternall life of condignity And whereas God is said to give the kingdome of hâ—aven for good merits or good workes the Cardinall for clearing hereof delivereth us this distinction That the word Propter or for is not to be taken Causally as if good workes were the efficient cause of the reward as fire is the cause of heate but improperly and by way of consequence noting thâ— order of oâ—e thing following oâ— another signifying that the reward is given after the good worke and not but after it yet noâ— for it so that a meritorious act is said to be a cause in respect of the rewâ—rd as Causa sine quâ— non also is said to be a caâ—se though it be no cause properly Thomas Walden professeth plainely his dislike of that saying That a man by his merits is worthy of the kingdome of heaven of this grace or that glory hoâ—sâ—ever certaine schoole-men that they might so spâ—ake had invented the termes of Condignity and Congruity But I repute him saith he the sounder Divine the more faithfull Catholike and more consonant with the holy Scriptures who doth simply deny such merit and with the qualification of the Apostle and of the Scriptures confesseth that simply no man meriteth the kingdome of heaven but by the grace of God or will of the Giver as all the former Saints untill the late Schoole-men and the Vniversall Church hath written Out of which words of Waldens wee may further observe saith the learned and Right Reverend Doctor Vsher Arch-bishop of Armagâ— both the time when and the persons by whom this innovation was made in these later dayes of the Church namely that the late Schoole-men were they that corrupted the ancient doctrine of the Church and to that end devised their new termes of the merit of Congruity and Condignity Paulus Burgensis expounding those words of David Psal. 36.5 Thy mercy O Lord is in heaven or reacheth unto the heavens writeth thus No man according to the common Law can merit by condignity the glory of heaven Whence the Apostle saith in the 8. to the Romans that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the future glory which shall be revealed in us And so it is manifest that in heaven most of all the mercy of God shineth forth in the blessed I will close up this point as also this age with that memorable
saying of Ernestus Arch-bishop of Magdeburg lying on his death-bed some five yeares befoâ—e Luther shewed himselfe It is witnessed by Clement Schaâ— Chaplaine to the said Arch-bishop and one who was present at his death that a Frier Minor used this speech to the Archbishop Take a good heart most worthy Prince wee communicate to your excellencie all the good workes not onely of our selves but our whole order of Frier Minors and therefore doubt not but you receiving them shall appeare before the tribunall Seate of God righteous and blessed Whereunto the Arch-bishop replyed By no meanes will I trust upon my owne workes or yours but the workes of Christ Iesus alone shall suffice upon them will I repose my selfe THE SIXTEENTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 1500. to 1600. Of Martin Luther PAPIST WHat say you of this sixteenth Age PROTESTANT We are now by Gods assistance come to the period of time which was agreed upon in the beginning of our conference to wit to the dayes of Martin Luther for about the yeare of Grace 1517 hee beganne to teach and Preach against Indulgences And withall I have produced a Catalogue of our professours unto this present sixteenth Centurie PA. Stay your selfe you must saith Master Brerely show us your professours during the twentie yeares next before Luther PRO. It is done already for besides our English Martyrs we have produced Trithemius the Abbot and Savonarola both which lived within the time mentioned and held with us the Article of free Iustification and Savonarola howsoever the matter be otherwise coloured was burnt for Religion in the yeare 1498. Besides there have beene in all Ages and in the time mentioned such as held the substantiall Articles of our Religion both in the Roman and Greeke Church and by name the Grecians in common with us have openly denyed the Popes Supremacie Purgatorie private Masses Sacrifices for the dead and defended the lawfulnesse of Priests marriage Likewise in this Westerne part of the world the Schollers of Wickliffe called Lollards in England the Taboâ—ites in Bohemia and Waldenses in France maintained the same doctrine in substance with our moderne Protestants as appeareth by a Confession of the Waldensian Faith set forth about the yeare of Grace 1508 which was within the time prefixed Neither did these whom we have produced dissemble their Religion but made open profession thereof by their Writings Confessions and Martyrdomes as also their just Apologies are extant to cleere them from the Adversaries imputation PA. I thought Luther had beene the first founder of your Religion for there bee some of your men who call him the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine PRO. Luther broached not a new Religion he onely drained and refined it from the Lees and dregs of superstition he did not forme or found a new Church which was not in being but onely reformed and purged that which he found from the soilâ— of errours and disorders When Hilkiah the Priest in Iosiah's time found out the booke of God he was thereby a meanes to bring to light what the wicked proceedings of Manasses Amon and others had for a season smothered and so did Luther he was the instrument whom God used for the farther enlightning his Church and yet hereupon it no more followeth that he was the first that preached our Religion than upon the former that Hiâ—kiah first preached the Law The Protestants Church by Luthers meanes began no otherwise in Germanie than health begins to be in a body that was formerly sicke and overcharged and now recovered So that in respect of doctrine necessary to salvation the Church in her Firme members as Saint Austine speakes was the same before Luther and afterwards and it began to be by his meanes onely according to a greaâ—er measure of knowledge and freedome from such corruptions as formerly like ill humours oppressed it and oveâ—charged it The Proâ—estants Church then is the same with all good and sound Christians that lived before them and succeedeth the sound members of the visible Chuâ—ch that kept the life of true Religion in the substantiall matters of Faith and Godlinesse though otherwise those times were daâ—kened with a thicke mist of errours Now whereas some call Luther the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine they did not therâ—by intend that he was the fiâ—st that ever preached the dâ—ctrine of the râ—formed Churches for they could not be ignorant that after Christ and his Apostles and the Fathers of the first five Ages Bertram and Aâ—lfricke and Berenger Peter Bruis and Henry of Tholouse Dulcinus and Anâ—ldus and Lollardus Wickliffe Husse Hierome of Pragâ—e and others stood for the same truth which we professe but their meaning was that Luther was the first who in their Age and memorie publickly and succesfully set on foot a generall reformation of the Church in these Westerne parts And thus in a tollerable sense Luther may bee called the first Apostle of the Reformation though not simply the first that preached the Protestants doctrine Americus Vesputius is reported to have discovered the West Indies or America and withall beares the name thereof and yet Christopher Columbus discovered it before him Bishop Iewell saith that in Luthers dayes in the midst of the darknesse of that Age there first began to shine some glimmeâ—ing beame of truth his meaning is not that the truth was then first revealed but that by Luthers mâ—anes it was manifested in a fuller measure and degree of lâ—ght and knowledge than it was in the fâ—rmer and daâ—ker times of Poperie yea he giveth pâ—rticular instance of true professours that were before Luther namely Saint Hilarie Gregory Bernard Pauperes de Lugduno the â—ishops of Greece and Asia as also Valla Marsilius Petrarch Savonarola and others PA. Did Luther himselfe acknowledge he had any predecessors or fore-runners PRO. I answer with my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly that Luther acknowledged the Waldenses termâ—d fratres Pigardi as appeares by his Preface before the Waldension Confession I found saith hee in these men a miracle almost unheard of in the Popish Church to wit that these men leaving the doctrines of men to the utmost of their endeavour meditated in the Law of God day and night and were very ready and skilfull in the Scriptures whereas in the Papacie the greatest Clerkes uâ—terly neglected the Scriptures I could not but congratulate both them and us that wee were together brought into one sheepfold Of Iohn Husse and Hiâ—rome of Prague he saith They burned Iohn Husse and Hierome both Catholike men they being themselves Heretikes and Apostates and in his third Preface hee saith hee hath heard from men of credit that Maximilian the Emperour was wont to say of Iohn Husse Alas alas they did that good man wrong And Erasmus Roterodam in the first bookes which hee printed lying yet by me writeth That Husse indeed was condemned and burned but not convicted PA. To
what Church did Luther joyne himselfe and why left hee the Roman Church PRO. Hee joyned himselfe in point of faith to the ancient Primitive and Apostolicke Church that went before him and for his present Communion to that sound part of the Roman Church which then with him hated the corruptions which the Romish faction for the maintenance of their pompe and profit had upheld In particular hee joyned himselfe to those honourable personages the Dukes of Saxony and Wittenberge and the Earle of Mansfield and to such Châ—istian congregations as within their territories began to abandon Poperie and reforme themselves He received Ordination in the Church of Rome this ordination for substance was good and by vertue thereof hee preached tâ—e word and brought the people to see and detest not the Church of Rome but her corruptions from whence hee severed himselfe to wit from the Roman Court and faction therein so that hee leapt not out of the Church hee kept himselfe still within the barne-floore thereof onely he leapt out of the huske of popish errours Now this his separation and ours from errour â—s warranted by Gods word since Gods people are commanded and that upon a grievous penalty to depart out of Babylon and spirituaâ—l Sodome and this we â—ake to be Rome since your owne Iesuites that have commented on the Revelation call Rome Babylon and that this is to be understood not onely of heathâ—n Rome but of Rome Christian after that it had forsaken heaâ—henisme and had received the faith of Christ and turned againe from that unto Antichristianisme PA. If any Protestant Church were in being before or at Luthers appearing then would they upon his preaching have acknowledgâ—d him and joyned themsâ—lves to him but as Bellâ—rmine saâ—th they did not PRO. Alphoâ—sus de Casiro saith Neither did Luther in this age come â—orth alone but accompanied with a grâ—at troope as with a Guard waiting for Lâ—tâ—er as for tâ—eir Captaine and Leader such were Philip Melanchton Conradus Pâ—llicanâ—s â—ambert Fabricius Capito â—siâ—â—der Stuâ—mius aâ—d Maâ—tin Bucer and thâ—se saith he seemed to have â—xpectâ—d him bâ—fore hee came and upon his comming dâ—lclâ—aâ—e unto him so that hee wanted noâ— such as gave him the right hands of fellowship Galat. 2.9 Carolus Miâ—titius being sent from Pope Leo to Frederike professed That all the way as he came having sâ—undâ—d mâ—ns affâ—ctions hee found three to favour Luthâ—r for one that favoured the Pope And Lutâ—er professeth that the applause of the world did much support him most men being weary of the frauds and wicked pâ—actices of the Romanists Neither are these penurious examples to give instance in Melanchton Pellican Bucer and others as Brereley scornefully calleth iâ— for they were as great schollâ—rs as that age affâ—â—ded Pâ—llican was one who made great helpe for râ—viving tâ—e Hebrew tongue and was Luthers ancient and so was Ioâ—n Capnio or Reuchlin who brought Greeke and Hebrew into Germany Now bâ—sides his câ—evals and contemporaries the Waldâ—nâ—es as also Iohn Hâ—sse bare a torch before Luther and shâ—wed him his way PA. Master Brereley saith That Melanchton Pâ—lican and Bucer were originally Catholikes and followed Luthers example in revolting from the Catholike Church PRO. Saint Paul was originally a Pharisee and yet hee did well to forsake the leaven of their traditions and embrace the doctrine of the Gospell And so did Saint Austin the errour of the Manichees and Pelagians and embraced the truth of the Gospell Besides they left not the Catholike but the Roman Church nor that altogether but the faction that was therein to wit the papacie PA. Schlusselburg saith It is impudencie to say that many learned men in Germany did hold the doctrine of the Gospell before Luther PRO. Schlusselburgs words are these Vtenhovius writes impudently that he heard Pellican affirme that many learned men in Germany held the doctrine of the Gospel before Luther appeaâ—ed and that Pellican himselfe impugned the popish purgatory before the name of Luther was heard of Now why may wee not beleeve Vtenhovius and Pellican affirmâ—ng the same and being honest men as well as Schlusselburg denying it Besides admit there were not any in Germany yet there might be elsewhere many thousands as in Bohemia France and England and other parts who bâ—fore Luthers time embraced the doctrine of the Gospell PA. Master Brereley saith out of Luthers workes that upon a conference had with the Devill Luther gave over the Masse and changed his Religion PRO. Suppose this Conference were extant in all the Dutch copies of Luthers workes which yet some make doubt of yet might this conference bee onely imaginary even a strong spirituall 〈◊〉 and not â—ny personall or reall conference now from such a spiâ—ituall conflict dreame or appâ—â—ition you cannot draw any sound proofe But supposing the truth of this conference had not Christ a conâ—â—â—â—nce with Sathan and Saint Bernarâ— a combat with him is theiâ— religion ere a whit â—he worse to be liked Your Romish Saints were very familiar with the Devill Saint Oswald wrestled with him Saint Dunstane tooke him by the nose Christopher in the Legend is said to have served the Devill and Saint Xavier was usually vexed with him after Dinner Supper Recreation and saying of Masse insomuch as the Devill oft times put him into a cold sweat as Hâ—ssenmullerus reporteth of him from Turrian the Iesuite PA. The Devill brought arguments against saying of Masse and disputed against it therefore the Masse is good or else the Devill would not have found fault with it PRO. This followeth not for every thing the Devill mislikes is not therefore good neither is all he moves one unto therefore bad For instance sake he came in the habit of Saint Vrsula and moved one to enter into the Order of Nunnes will you say therefore veiling of Nunnes is bad PA. Luther used the selfe-same arguments against the Masse which Satan did now how could they bee good proofes that were brought in by Satan or why would Luther beleeve him PRO. Luther shewes onely how Satan tempted hâ—m to despaire for that he had beene a Masse-monger which Luther knew to be naught without the Devils prompting Besides all that the Devill speakes is not devillish the Devils that possessed the men confessed and sayd Thou art Christ the Sonne of the living God afterwards they entred into the Heard of Swine now the Heardmen they came into the Citty and told what was done and sayd now what though the Hâ—ard-men told how the Devils confessed this Article of the Christian Faith That Christ was the Sonne of the living God was not this a true confession though the Heard-men had fiâ—st heard it from the Devils and likewise reported it from them Luther heard such and such arguments against the Masse might not those arguments be true though Luther heaâ—d them from Satan Gods Ape It is true indeed that the Devill in telling truth
amisse and not to prosecute Luther but this Councel was not followed wherupon divers parts according to Gersons Councel began this worke of Reformation so much desired by all good men howsoever opposed by the pope and his adherents PA. A Reformation presupposeth that things were amisse will you charge the Catholicke Church with errour PRO. Wee say that particular Churches and such is that of Rome may erre and divers have erred Sixtus Senensis reckons up many Fathers that held the Millenary errour mistaking that place in the Revelation 20.5 They said that there should be two Resurrections the first of the godly to live with Christ a thousand yeares on earth in all wordly happinesse before the wicked should awake out of the sleepe of death and after that thousand yeares the second Resurrection of the wicked should bee to eternall death and the godly should ascend to eternall life this errour continued almost two hundred yeares after it began before it was condemned for an heresie and was held by so many Church-men of great account and Martyrs that Saint Augustine and Ierome did very modestly dissent saith the same Senensis The opinion of the necessity of Infants receiving the Sacrament of the Lords body and blood as well as Baptisme did possesse the minds of many in the Church for certaine hundreds of yeares as appeareth by that which Saint Austine writeth of it in his time and Hugo de Sancto victoâ—e many hundred of yeares after him Were there not also superstition and abuses in the primitive Churches did not a Councell forbid those night vigils which some Christians then used at the graves of the Martyrs in honour of the deceased Saints and are not these Vigils now abolished Doth not Saint Aâ—stine confesse there were certaine Adoratores sepulchrâ—rum â—t picturarum worshippers of tombes and pictures in the Church in his time and doth not the same Father taxe them for it To come to later times Thomas Bradwardine complayned That the whole world almoâ—t was gone after Pelagius into errour arise therefore O Lord saith hee and judge thine owne cause Gregorius Ariminensis saith That to affirme that man by his naturall strength without the speciall helpe of God can doe any vertuous action or morally good is one of the damned heresies of Pelagius or if in any thing it differ from his heresie it is further from truth The same Gregory saith The heresies of Pelagius were taught in the Church and that not by a few or them meane men but so many and of so great place that hee almost feared to follow the doctrine of the Fathers and oppose himselfe against them therein Cardinall Contaren saith That there were some who pretended to be Catholikes and opposite to Luther who whiles they laboured to advance free-will too high they detracted too much from the free-grace of God and so became adversaries to the greatest lights of the Church and friends to Pelagius It is not strange then that weâ— say there hath beene a defection not onely of Heretikes from the Câ—urch and faithâ— but also in the Church of her owne children from the sincerity of faiâ—h dâ—livered by Christ and his Apostles not for that all or the whole Church at any time did forsake the true faith but for that many fell from it according to that of Saint Paul 1. Tim. 4.1 In the last times some shall depart from the faith attâ—nding to spirits of errour Besides such a famine of the word as fell out in these later times must needs have brought in corruption in doctrine and this was it that called for Reformation For in sundry ages last past the Roman Church hath behaved her selfe more like a step-dame then a naturall mother insomuch as shee hath deprived her children of a principall portion of the food of life the word of God her publike readings and service were in an unknowne tongue the holy Scriptures were closed up that people might not cast their eyes upon them fabulous Legends were read and preached insteed of Gods word but as Claudius Espencaeus a Doctor of Paris a bitter enemy to Bâ—za and therefore more worthy of credit in this bâ—halfe saith Our Ancestors as devoutly affâ—cted to the Saints as we thought is not fit that the rehearsall of the Saints lives should shoulder out the bookes of the old and new Testament and the reading thereof And hereby it came to passe as one of their owne Authors saiâ—h That the greater number of people understood no more concerning God and things divine in particular and distinct notions then Infidels or heathen people And here in England there was such a dearth of the word in these later times of popeâ—y that some gave five markes some more some lesse for an English booke some gave a load of hay for a few Chapters of Saint Iames or of Saint Paul in English Was it not now high time to reforme these things but Rome would neither acknowledge her errours nor reâ—orme them but rather sought to defend them persecuting such as by authority established laboured this reformation How easie and safe had it beene for Rome had shee tendered the peace of Christendome to have according as the truth required permitted the uâ—e of the Cup as sometime the Councell of Basil allowed it to the Bohemians and the publike service of God in a knowne language as was sometimes granted to the Slavons as also to have abolished the worship of Imâ—ges and the like without which the Church wâ—s and that very well for a long time But Rome would not yeeld in one point lest shee should bee suspected to have erred in the rest and therely the Infallibility of the Roman Oracle the Pope bee called in question PA. That which is reformed remaines the same in substance that it was before And therefore the Catholike Religion and the substantiall exercise thereof should have remayned in England upon the Reformation but you have set up another Religion PRO. We doe not say that the Catholike Religion is reformed for that cannot bee amended but that wee have reformed Religion in that we have purged it from certaine devises and corruptions which had crept into it Before this reformation Religion was like to a certaine lumpâ— or masâ—e consisting partly of gold aâ—d partly of other refuse mettall and drosse to a sicke body wherein besides the flesh blood and bones and vitall spirits there were also divers naughty humours that had surprised the body our reformation tooke not away your gold to wit those fundamentall truths wherein you agree with us but purged it from the drosse it drew not the good blood from the body but onely purged out the pestilent humour so that we have retained whatsoever was sound Catholike and primitively ancient onely those things that were patched to the ground-soles of Religion that wee have pared away as superfluous wee have not removed the ancient land-markes
say it was not onely apparant enough in the Greeke and Easterne Churches and in such as had made an open separation from the Romish corruptions such as were in these Westerne parts the Wâ—ldenses Wickleâ—iâ—ts and Hussites but it was also within the community of the Romish Church it selfe even there as in a large field grew much good corne among tares and weeds there as in a great bâ—rne heape or garner was preserved much pure graine mixed with store of chaffe Object I except against that you have said Master Brereley cals it a Ridle To say your Church was under the Papacie as wheat is under the chaffe and yet the Papacie was not the true Church Answer It is no Enigma or Ridle it being all one in effect as to say the Christian Church at our Saviours comming and after consisting of Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna the Shepherds and the Sages Christs disciples and others was in and under the Iewish Church consisting of Scribes and Pharisees who with their false glosses and vaine traditions had corrupted the Law of God was not sanum membrum a sound part of Gods Church but as our Saviour saith Like sheepe without a Shepheard Mark 6.34 Object You say your Church was under the papacie but the papacie was not the true Church by the like reason you may say that the hidden Church of God is preserved among the Turkes can there be a Church without an outward ministerie Answer It followeth not and the reason of the difference is because amongst the Turkes there is not that meanes of salvation inasmuch as they have not given their names to Christ but the true Church of God may bee preserved withiâ— the Romish Church in as much as they have the Scriptures though in a strange tongue as also Baptismeâ— and lawfull ordination and the like helpes which God in all ages used that his Elect might begathered out of the midst of Babylon And whereas you urge an outward and publike ministery this maketh nothing against the Church of England which for substance hath the same descent of outward ordination with the Roman Church neither can any man shew a more certaine pedegree from his great Grand father than our Bishops and Pastors can fâ—om suâ—h Bishops as your Church accounts canonâ—call in the time of King Henry the eight and upward such â—aâ—re evidence can wee produce for an outward and publâ—ke miâ—istery in the Church of England and such ordination wee hold very necessary and yet in case it cannot be had Gods children by their private reading and meditation of that which they have formerly learned may supply the defect of a publike ministery even as some Christians at this day being slâ—ves in Turky or Barbarie may be saved wiâ—hout externall ministery but this is in case of extremity for us we never wanted a standing ministery Neither did the Waldenses Wicklivâ—sts and Hussites for so I call them for distinction sake ever want an outward and lawfull ministery amongst them for the administration of the word and Sacramentsâ— Object You say your Professors communicated with the Roman Church but did not partake in her errours as you call them did they not joyne with them in the Massâ— and the Letanies of the Saints and the like Answer The thing wee say is this that howsoever they outwardly communicaâ—ed with Rome yet divers of them misliked in their heart their grosser erroâ—s they groaned under the Babylonish yoake and desired reformation besides many of them were ignorant of the depth and mysterie of poperie Object If your Protestant Church were in bâ—ing at and before Luthers appearing then did such as were members thereof either make profession thereof or not if they did tell us their names and where they did so if they did not then were they but dissemblers in Religion according to that of Saint Paul Rom. 10.10 and our Saviour Math. 10.33 Answer I will but take what your Rhemists grant and reâ—oâ—t your owne argument they say That the Catholike Church in their time was in England although it had no publike government nor open free exercise of holy function whence I argue thus if their Roman Church had any being at that time in England then their Priests and Iesuits either made publike profession of their faith or not if they made open profession why then did they goe in Lay-mens habits and lurke in corners if they made not open profâ—ssion then were they but dissemblers Besides I have already given you in a Catalogue of our professors who within the time mentioned witnessed that truth which wee maintaine by their writings confessiâ—ns and Martyrdom Now for us wee have rejected nothing but popery wee have willingly departed from the Communion of their errors and additions to the faith but from the Communion of the Church wee never departed In a word there were some who openly and constantly withstood the errours and corâ—uptions of their time and sealed with their bloud that truthâ— which they with us professed others dissented from the same errours but did not with the like courage oppâ—se themselves such as would sâ—y to their friends in private Thus I would say in the Schooles and openly Sed maneat inter nos diversum sentio but keepe my Councel I thinke the contrary PA. Was not the Masse publickly used in all Churches at Lâ—thers aâ—pearinâ— was Protestancie then so much as in being saith Master Bâ—eâ—ely PRO. If by a Protestant Church saith learned Doctor Field we meâ—ne a Church beleeving and teaching in all poinâ—s as Protestants doe and beleeving and teaching nothing but that they doe the Latine or West Church wherein the Pope â—yranâ—ized before Luthers time was and continuâ—d a true Protestant Church for it taught as we doe it condemned the superstition wee have removed it groaned under the yoke of tyranny which wee have cast off howsoever there were many in the midâ—t of her that brought in and maintained superstition and advanced the Popes Supremacie But if by a Protestant Church they understand a Church that not onely dislikes and complaines of Papal usurpation but also abandonâ—th it and not onely teacheth all necessary and saving truth but suffâ—reth none within her jurisdiction to teach otherwise wee confesse that no part of the Westerne Church was in this sort a Pâ—otestant Church till a Reformation was begun of evils formerly dislikâ—d Now whereas it is objâ—ctâ—d that the Masse wherein they say many chiefe poinâ—s oâ— their Râ—ligion are comprehended was publickely uâ—ed at Luthers appearing It is answered by Doctor Field that thâ— usiâ—g oâ— the Masse as the publicke Liturgie is no good proofe inasmuch as manifold abuses in pâ—actice besides and contrary to thâ— word of the Canon and the inâ—enâ—â—â—â— of them that first compoâ—ed the sameâ— have creâ—t into iâ— as also sundry Apocryphall thiâ—gs have slipt into the publicke Service of the Church these things will bâ—tter appeare by â—articular instances Concerning private
were held as you say not by the best members of the Church but by a domineering faction therein how came it that the prevailing faction suffered others to dissent from them in judgement Answer So long as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall in other things they were suffered to abound in their owne sense so that they submitted themsâ—lves to the obedience of the Church of Rome Besides the Church of Râ—me had not so strictly defined those Tenets in any Councel before as afterwards they did in the Councel of Tâ—ent PA. Our name Catholicke is ancient your Protestant name came not in till after Luther Besides it is a scandalous thing for your Church to derive authoritie from Wickliffâ— Husse Luther and Calvin PRO. Indeed the name Protestant began upon the protâ—sting of the Elector and Laâ—d grave against the Edict howsoever the Faith is ancient though the name bee not and yet if you stand upon names wee are called Christians and into that name were wee Baptized and that is anciâ—nter than your Roman catholicke Now you are called Catholickes but it is with an aliâs or addition Roman-Caâ—holickes as much as to say Particular Vniversall the part is the whole one Citty the woâ—ld and it is your selves that terme you Catholickes Now if one Papist call another so it is but as if one Mule should claw another The Hagarens boldly usurped the name of Sarazens although they were only the brood that sprang from the wombe of Hagar the hand-maid of Sara The Papists by this terme Catholicke worke upon simple people arguing from the one to the other as if all the priviledges of the Catholicke Church belonged to the Romane but we tell them as Optatus did the Donatists who pinned up the Church in a corner of Africke as the Romanists now conâ—ine her to their See that Their Church is Quasi Ecclesia in some sort a Church but not the Catholicke Church but an unsound member thereof We doe not derive our Church from any other than the Primitive Catholicke and Apoâ—tolickâ— Chuâ—ch The Lord is not farre from every â—â—e of us for we are also his off spring Christ Iesus is the top of our kiâ—ne and Religion the stocke Your Pedegre mâ—y be drawne in part from some of the ancient Hereâ—iâ—kes in â—espect of your Invocaâ—ion of Sainâ—s and Angelsâ— you are a kinne at least by the halfe bloud to the Angelici Who as Saint Austâ—ne saith were inclined to the worship of Angels and were from thence as Isidore noteth Called Angelici because they did worship Angelâ— By your Hyperdalâ—a and wâ—â—ship given to the blessed Virgin you shew your selves allied to the Collyridian Hereâ—ikes whom Epiphanius termes Idolaters now thâ—y were called Collyridians from the Collyrides or Cakes which at a certaine time of the yeare they used to offer unto the blessed Virgin sacrificing to her as to the Qâ—eene of heavâ—n By your doctrine of merit and workes of supererogâ—tion you resemble the Pelagians or Catharists Isidore notes it for a propertie of the Catharists or ancient Puritans To glory of their merits Thomas Waldâ—n saith It was a branch of the Pelagian heresie to â—old that according to the measure of meritorious workes God will reward a man so meriâ—ing Now the Rhemists a sprig of this branch mainâ—aine That they doe woâ—ke by their owne freewill and thereby deserve their salvation as also that Good workes are meritorious and the very cause of salvatâ—on so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not hâ—aven for the same Now concerning the names of Wicklâ—ffe and Husse Luther and Calvin wherewith you pressâ—uâ— you shâ—ll not hereby drive us from holding that with them which thâ—y held of God for though wee rejoyce not in names drawnâ— from men but in the name of Christians into the which we are bapâ—ized yet wee know no great harme by them nor you we thinke set slaunders apaâ—t why we shâ—uld bee ashamed of them more than oâ—r Fathers were of Caecilian of whom the Dâ—natists câ—lled thâ—m Caeciâ—ianists but had they beene as evill almost as their enemies report them from which impâ—tations they are alrâ—aâ—y cleared anâ— theiâ— doctâ—ine â—ixâ— with lâ—â—ven as was the Phâ—risees yet Saint Paul hath tauâ—ht us to acknowledge our selves even Pâ—â—â—iseâ—s iâ— need be not onely Lutherans or Waldensâ—s in that the Pharisees taught a truth of Christian faith to wit the Resurrection of the dead In a word we esteeme of Calvin and Luther and the rest of the first Reformers as worthy men but wee make them not Lords over our faith PA. What thinke you of our fore-fathers that lived and died in the time of Poperie as you call it they were of our Religion PRO. I thinke charitably of them that they might bee saved for many of them were well meaning men and wanting meanes of better instruction they were carried with the sway of the times and as Saint Paul saith 1. Tim. 1.13 Did it ignorantly like those two hundred 2. Sam. 15.11 who in simplicity of heart followed Absalon knowing nothing of his treason and rebellion intended they knew not the depth and mysterie of poperie not their Merit of condignity nor their severall sorts of adoration their Latria Dulia and Hyperdulia Indeed the Scriptures and Church-service were lockt up in an unknowne tongue and yet even in the depth of Poperie as appeares by a Councell held at Clyffe and also by a Provinciall Constitution of Iohn Peckam Arch-bishop of Canterbury The Priests were enjoyned to teach the people the heads of Christian faith and Religion and namely to expound unto them the Creed the ten Commandements and the Sacraments and that vulgariter that is as the Glosse there saith in the vulgar and mother tongue to wit in English to the native English and in French to the French-borne so that even in those daâ—ker times there was a measure of explicite faith required at the hands of Lay-people and they were to be trained up in the knowledge of those Credendorum so farre as the Letter of the Creed might leade them and Faciendorum such as the Decalogue appointed them and Petendorum comprised in the Lords prayer and Recipiendorum tendred in the Sacraments It is Lyrae's conceit that when Saint Paul saith 1. Cor. 14.19 Hee had ratâ—er in the Church speake five words with his undeâ—standing then ten thousand in a strange tongue that those five words were those Agenda and Credenda which concerne our faith and manners as also those Vitanda Timenda and Speranda which the Pastors were to declare unto the people Besides there were divers parcels of the Creed concerning Christ and namely touching his Incarnation Passion his Resurrection and Ascension that were wont to be represented to their memories and meditations in the severall Festivities and Holy-dayes which the Church solemnized Besides wee hope the better for that they erred in points of
lesse moment and danger such as blemished indeed but tooke not away the Churches being and that they held the true foundation of Religion that is Iustification and Salvation by Iesus Christ his merits onely God dealing graciously with our fore-fathers in that this point was ordinarily taught in their bookes of Visitation and Consolation of the sicke In this respect wee hope that divers both formerly and in our dayes who live Papists die Protestants for howsoever in their life time they talke of Workes Merits and Satisfaction to God yet on their death-bed divers of them find little comfort in Crosses and Crucifixes Pictures and Popes pardons in Agnus Dei's blessed Gâ—aines Reliques and the like then they renounce all meere humane satisfaction merit and workes and breath out their last breath in the Protestant language of that holy Martyr Master Lambert who lift up his hands such hands as he had and his fingers ends flaming with fire and cried out to the people in these words None but Christ none but Christ. The example of Stephen Garâ—iner Bishop of Winchester is notable to this purpose when the Bishop lay sicke on his death-bed and Doctor Day Bishop of Chichester comming to visit him began to comfort him repeating to him such places of Scripture as did expresse or import the free justification of a repentant sinner in the blood of Christ hereunto Winchester replyed What my Lord quoth he will you open that gap now then farewâ—ll altogether you may tell this to such as me and others in my case but open once this window to the people and then farewell altogether Laâ—tly we are not simply and in euery thing to follow our Ancestors it was the argument of Simmachus the heathen Our religion which hath continued so long is to bee retained and our Ancestors to be followed by us who happily traced their fore fathers but the Loâ—d saith Walke yee not in the ordinances of your fore-fathers neither after their manners nor defile your sâ—lves with their Idols I am the Lord your God walke yee in my statuâ—es and keepe them and not after your vaine conversation which yee have received by the tradition of the Fathers as Saint Peter speakes Object If you hope so well of our fore-fathers why hope you not so well of us their children Answer The parties are not alike besides there is great difference of the times then and now the former were times of ignorance these are the dayes wherein light is come into the world in what they erred they erred ignorantly following the conduct of their guides doing as they taught them and so were mislead as Saint Austine saith Errantes ab errantibus by their blind guides but upon better information wee presume they would have reformed their errours Now he is more to bee pitied who stumbleth in the darke than in the day-light men are now admonished of their erâ—rours offer is made to them to be better instructed so that their censure will bee heavier if either they dote on their owne opinions unwilling to bee instructed in the reveled truth or after sufficient knowlâ—dge and conviction for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinatly persist in their old errors and which is farre worse hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth Saint Cyprian saith If any of our Predecessors either of ignorance of simplicity hath noâ— observed and held that which our Lord hath taught us by his word and example by the Lords mercy pardon might bee granted to his simplicitie but to us that are now admonished and instructed of the Lord pardon cannot bee granted Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretikes and them that beleeve Heretikes and he saith farther They that defend an opinion false and perverse without pertinacious selfe-mindednesse especially which not the boldnâ—sse of their owne presumption hath begotten but which from their seduced and erronious Parents they have received and themselves doe seeke the truth with care and diligence ready to amend their errour when they find the truth they are in no wise to bee reckoned among Heretikes this was the case of our Fathers under the Papacie In a word our Fathers they lived in those errours of ignorance not of obstinacie and knew not the dangerous consequence of them such men by particular repenâ—ance of sinnes knowne and generall repentance of unknowne might by Gods mercie be saved Object If holding the foundation will serve as you seeme to say in the case of our fore-fathers then we may safely obtaine salvation in the Church of Rome Answer This followeth not for the Church of Rome buildeth many things which by consequent destroy the foundation Rome doth both hold the foundation and destroy it she holds it directly destroyes it by consequent As the Galathians held the foundation to wit salvation by Iesus Christ and yet withall held a necessity of joyning Circumcision with Christ which doctrine by consequence destroyed the very foundation for so Saint Paul wrote unto them Galat. 5.2.4 If they were circumcised Christ profited them nothing hâ—e became of none effect unto them they were fallen from gracâ— In like sort Poperie opposeth the Faith not directly but obliquely not formally but virtually not in expresse termes but by consequence Poperie overthrowes the foundation by consequence whiles it brings on so many stories of unsound adjections and corrupt super-additions upon the ancient ground-sole of Religion as are like to â—ndanger the whole frame The learned and acute Doctor Doctor Hall now Lord Bishop of Exceter gives severall instances hereof Poperie overthroweth the truth of our Iustification whiles it ascribes it to our owne works the All-sufficiencie of Christs owne Sacrifice whiles they reiterate it daily by the hands of a Priest Of his Satisfaction while thâ—y hold a payment of our utmost farthings in a devised Purgatorie Of his Mediation while they implore others to ayde them not onely by their Intercession but their Merits suing not onely for their prayers but their gifts the value of the Scriptures whiles they hold them unsufficient obscure in points essâ—ntiall to salvation and bind them to an uncertaine dâ—pendance upon the Church Now for the simpler sort whilâ—s in truth of heart they hold the maine principles which they know doubtlâ—sse the mercy of God may passe over their ignorant weakenesse in what they cannot know For the other I feare not to say that many of their errours are wilfull The light of truth hath shined out of heaven to them and they loved darkenesse more than lighâ— Thus farre that learned â—ishop PA. The Protestants at â—ast many of them conâ—â—sse there may be salvation in our Church we absolutely deny thereâ—s salvâ—tion in theirs therefore it is safâ—r to come to ours than to sâ—ay in theirs to be where almost all grant salvation than where the greater part of the world deny it PRO. This point is fully cleered by the judicious Author of the Answer to
That at Rome no man may say that the Councel is above the Pope nor at Paris that the Pope is above the Councel In a word the Papists are at great odds but they cunningly conceale them insomuch as it is observed that some of them would say to their friends in privat Thus or thus I would say in the schooles and openly Sed maneat inâ—er nos diversum sentio but keepe my counsel I thinke the contrarie PA. We may haply be at ods in some Scholasticke points but not in matters defined by the Pope and a Generall Councel PRO. You would have us beleeve that at the sound of the Popâ—s sentence like frogs in a marish at the falling in of a great log or stone you are all hushed and silenced but it is not so for since the Trent decrees were published divers of your side are divided about the sense thereof iâ—somuch as they differ in the maine points thereof which in your account are fundamental and the deniers therof reputed Hereticks This may appeare by these instances The Pope in the Councels of Trent and Florence decreed the Apocrypha to bee Canonicall Scripture yet since that decree Driedo and Sixtus Senensis have called them in question and rejected them The Pope in the last Councelâ— is decreed to be above a Councel and yet since that time Alphonsus à Castro hath writ the contrarie The Trent Councel teacheth Sess. 6. Iustification by Inherent righteousnes condemning those that beleeve the imputation of Christs Righteousnesse and yet Albertus Pighius defendeth imputed â—ighteousnesse so doth Cardinal Contaren in his treatise of Iustification Again the Pope decreed against the certainty of grace salvation defining Sess. 6. that no man should beleeve these things of himselfe yet Catharinus defended the contrary holding that a man might have the certainty of Faith touching these thingsâ— and when the Trent Councels authority was objected against him he eluded it by divers sleight distinctions The truth is the Papists have a kind of unitie to wit a superstitious and hypocriticall crouching to the popes chayreâ— for so long as they agree to go to mass swear to the popes supremacy other things are tollerated although they coÌ„sent like harp harrow And surely were it not for the great profit and riches which knit the parts of this body together like twinnes that have different heads but tied together by the belly we should see this great body of the papacy would soon be divided scattered and dispersed Howsoever for any differences amongst the Protestants we may thankefully acknowledge that it was the wonderfull Providence of God that so many severall Countries Kingdomes and States abandoning the abuses of the Church or rather Court of Rome and making particular reformation in their owne dominions without generall meetings and consents should have no more nor greater differences than are found amongst them Object It is usuall with you in your Catalogue to say such and such as namely S. Bernard or the like taught for substance as you doe agreeing only with you in some fundamentall points but this will not serve to make them members of your Church for by the like reason the Quartadecimanes Novatians Donatists and Pelagians might pretend to the Catholike Church in as much as they agreed therewith in some fundamentall truths Answer 1 Agreement in one or more fundamentals maketh not a man a Catholike Christian tho disagreement in any one fundamentall joyned with obstinacie makes a man an Heretike 2 To make a man actually a member of the true Church more is required than agreement in the profession of the same fundamentall points of faith for not only heresie but schisme also excludeth a man from Communion with the true Catholike Church 3 Fundamentall points as well conceâ—ne life and manners as faith and he that impugneth the doctrine of the Decalogue is as well an Heretike as he that impugneth the doctrine of the Creed Nicholas directly impugned the one and by evident consequence the other by maintaining his impure communion or rather community of wives 4 The Quarta decimanes who kept Easter on the fourteenth day precisely were of two sorts Some as Polycrates and other Bishops of Asia kept it so meerely in imitation of S. Iohn the Evangelist and those were never condemned for Heretikes Others kept the fourteenth day by vertue of the Mosaicall Law and these by consequent destroyed the foundation as those did among the Galathians who urged Circumcision to whom S. Paul there professeth That Christ should not profit them and that they were fallen from grace 5 Novatians erred in a fundamentall point concerning Repentance and by consequent overthrew that Article of the Creed Credo remissionem peccatorum 6 The Donatists were rather Schismatikes than Heretikes and rather made a rent in the Church then were excluded from it Saint Austin in his seventh tome every where calleth it Schisma Donati in the end they grew to bee heretikes and denied in effect that fundamentall Article Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam 7 The Pelagians erred in divers fundamentall points concerning originall sinnâ— and the necessity of Grace For farther answer we say that the Authors we produce against the Romanists are of two sorts 1 Some we alleadge onely as Testes veritatis in such or such a point or points of faith 2 Others wee produce as members of our reformed Church and fore-runners of Luther Of the first sort is Bernard very orthodoxe in all points against the Pelagians but otherwise tainted and an open enemy to the Albigenses Of the second sort are the Waldenses Wicklifists and Hussites who as appeares by their confessions of faith extant in Orthuinus Gratius and the History of the Waldenses agree with uâ— in all Fundamentals not onely in some as the Heretikes above mentioned agreed with the Church Objection What though Saint Hierome Bernard and others agree with you in some generall truths men of contrarie religions may have divers materials of doctrine common to both now this is but a genericall agreement which is no more than the agreement betweene a man and a beast Answer 1 Saint Hierome and Bernard are not well rancked together Saint Hierome was a through Papist in no point Bernard was in some living in a corrupt age seaven hundred yeeres after Saint Hierome 2 Besides we answer that Waldo Wickliffe and Husse with others agree with us not onely Generically in the common grounds of Christianitie but Specifically in those formall points which we hold at this day against the Romane Church and as for such calumnies as are cast upon them they are already confuted in this treatise neither will any indifferent person regard them for when once that infamous name of Hereticke was fastned upon a man nothing was too heavie for such an one any thing was beleeved of that man and from thence it is without question that we find so many so absurd so senselesse opinions imputed to them