to the General Councelles thinke good to make menne beleue that the General Councels haue yeelded to you Pride and humilitie maketh a cleare difference betwen the citie of God and the citie of the Deuil Iewel Pag. 43. VVhere you saie that Bishoppes onely haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye seeme vvillingly and vvithout cause to reporte vntruthe VVheÌ„ he vvrote that he vvas neither Pius secundus nor Pope but a priuate maÌ„ Aeneas Syluius de gestis CoÌ„cilij ConstaÌ„t lib. 1. False traÌ„slatioÌ„ Apparet in this place signifieth not it is plaine but it appeareth IohaÌ„ Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corol. 4. The 13. Chapt. For Pius Secundus * being him selfe a Pope vvould haue tolde you the contrarie These be his vvordes Apparet alios quam Episcopos in Concilijs habuisse vocem decidentem * It is plaine that certaine others beside Bishoppes had voice definitiue in the Councelles Likevvise Iohn Gerson Etiam ad laicos hoc potest extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos Clericorum This priuiledge of geuing sentence in Councel maie be extended euen vnto the laie sorte yea and that oftentimes better then vnto many priestes Harding That in Councelles Bishoppes onely haue sentence definitiue the obiections of Pius 2. and Gerson answered Neither willingly nor without cause nor vntruth Not willingly For I came to speake of this point by occasion of your Apologie complaning that you had no audience in the General Councel at Trente Not without cause For that being true as I shal anone proue it to be true that onâ—ly Bishoppes haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye being no Bishoppes at al for geuing SenteÌ„ce definitiue there is no place for you which greueth you ful sore For faine would ye once sitte in General CouÌ„cel as the Masters and Superintendentes of al Christendome Not Vntruthe For it is euident by the auncient practise of the primitiue Churche that in al Councelles Only Bishops at Councels subscribe definitiuely only Bishoppes haue subscribed definitiuely The tenour of al General Councelles yet extant is a cleare witnesse hereof to al that can or wil peruse them And though a Negatiue be harde to proue yet this Negatiue that none but Bishoppes should subscribe in Councelles is plainely proued in the Auncient great General Councel of Châ—â—â—don Where it is openly â—â—ouchâ—d first of the Bishopâ—â— them selues Act. 1. Pag. 745. thus â— Synodus Episcoporum est non Cleriâ—â—â— A Synode or Councel is of Bishoppes not of the inâ—â—riour Clergie or of Priestes as alwaies you turne the worde Then of one Martinus Presbyter a Priest thus Non est meum subscribere bid Pag. 775. EpiscoporuÌ„ tantùm est It is not my part to subscribe It belongeth only to Bishoppes But M. Iewel wil proue the contrarie and that others beside Bishoppes had sentence definitiue But by whom Forsoth by Aeneas Syluius and Iohn Gerson both very late writers and not yet of two hundred yeres auncientie Such newe litle worth stuffe he that requireth vs to proue al thinges by the writers of the first 600. yeres bringeth against the Auncient practise of the primitiue Churche And yet he belieth his Authours most shamâ—lesly See Reader hovv many vntrue partes Mâ—l plaieth in one pore litle sentence For first he saith that Pius Secundus being him selfe a Pope telleth vs the contrarie whiche is vtterly false For when he wrote that booke he was Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus not Pius Secundus He was then â— priuate man not a Pope And being Pope he recanted that hâ— had done in the pretensed Councel of Basile and that he had written thereof and certaine other errours which before he had published Bulla recantationis Pij Papa 2. Tom. 4. Concil pag. 503. and written to the derogation of the See Apostolike and of the Clergie Neither was this tolde by Aeneas Syluius as a thing of his owne iudgement and of his owne vtterance but as a thing in that Synode said by Cardinalis Arelatensis whose priuatâ— opinion that was and the same vttered he with that libertie which is graunted to al menne admitted to Councels in whiche they are permitted freely to speake what they thinke And therefore in debating of dâ—ubteful matters they speake thinges contrarie one against an other And this saying of the Cardinal of Arles was in that CouÌ„cel controlled and gainesaid by other menne of great lerning and iudgement as by Panormitanus Ludouicus and others there mentioned So that it is no better auctoritie then a thing that is spoken in heate of disputation against the truth for the better discussion of the truth In alleging then your Doctor you haue committed fiue vntruthes First he neuer wrote any suche booke as you name to witte De Gestis Concilij ConstaÌ„tiensis but de Gestis Concilij Basiliensis Secondly when he wrote it Vide Aene Syl. de Gestis CoÌ„cil Basil li. 1. pa. 27 he was not Pius Secundus Pope as you saie he was but Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus a priuate man Thirdly it is not the saying of Aeneas him selfe but of the Cardinal of Arles Fourthly you haue added of your owne to his sentence these wordes in Concilijs which are not in your Author Neither spake he that of other Councelles then of the Apostles Councel meÌ„cioned in the Actes Fifthly you corrupte your Doctor by false translation For Apparet doth not alwaies signifie it is plaine as you haue translated it but it seemeth or appeareth And many thinges appeare that be not plaine nor true as this it selfe is one Of a thing that is plaine to saie it appeareth were preiudicial to the truth Whether these vntrue partes haue proceded of Rhetorical policie called otherwise lying for aduantage to make the most of your Author you could or of mere ignorance for that you neuer saw the place your selfe but trusted other mennes vntrue eies therein or els of a certaine dispositioÌ„ proper to your humour that nothing can passe your fingers without some false sleight or other I leaue it to be considered of others Geâ—son impudently be lyed and falsified by M. Iewel As for Iohn Gerson you deale as falsly with him as with Aeneas Syluius and to speake plainely though as you would haue it sâ—me vncourteously you vtterly belie him In the place by you allege Gerson speaking of verities that are so of necessitie to be beleeued Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corâ—llario 4 that otherwise a man can not be saued sheweth that one man is bounde vnder paine of heresie to holde some pointes with certaine and expresse faith and thereof in no wise to doubt whereof an other man for a time without blame maie be in doubte This doth he there declare by a threefolde example As a diuine saith he or a professour of diuinitie exercised in the holy scriptures is bound expressely to holde and not to doubte at al of many thinges of which a simple and an vnlearned man being required might with
who haue vnlawfully inuaded the administration of the Sacramentes can make any iust and right answer I am sure * These being my questions M. Iewel you answer neither by what example handes were laid on you nor who sent you but only you say he made you priest that made me in king Edwardes daies Verely I neuer had any name or title of Priesthod geuen to me during the raigne of King Edward I onely tooke the Order of Deaconshippe as it was then ministred farther I went not So that if you haue none other Priesthoode then I had in King Edwardes time you are yet but a Deacon and that also not after the Catholique manner but in a Schismatical sorte Truly after that I had wel considered with my selfe those questions which in my Confutation I moued vnto you I tooke my selfe neither for a Priest nor yet for a lawful Deacon in al respectes by those orders Rom. 13. which were taken in king Edwardes daies For I cōsidered that whereas al power commeth from God most specially the power whereby the Church is gouerned commeth from him by Christe And seing al men know and see how the power whereby temporal kingdomes are gouerned is and ought to be wel witnessed by lineal descent of bloud or els by election and such other vocations as are among men and seing that external witnesse whereby their titles are proued is both good and necessary I thought that it was much more conuenient to graunt that the power whereby Christes Churche is gouerned ougtht to be wel witnessed euen outwardly ◠Timo. 3. sithens S. Paule requireth also that a Bisshoppe or Priest should be of a good name emong the Infidels if he liue with them And seing Christ came into the worlde to be seene and to minister and to institute visible Sacramentes and to sende visible Preachers Iohan. 02 I considered what an absurditie it was after his Ascension for man to chalenge an Inuisible Churche or Succession to him selfe Furthermore when I vewed the state of the Primitiue Churche and saw that Bishoppes euermore succeded lineally one after an other euen from the Apostles time and had read that same order of Succession to be vrged and pressed vpon by S. Irenaeus S. Cyprian Optatus and S. Augustine as is afore noted And perceiued that who soeuer forsooke the open and knowen Successiō of Bishops he was condemned for an Heretike as wel in the Latine as in the Greeke Churche al these thinges being set before myne eyes through Gods grace who shewed me them I esteemed not the title of any Ministerie which I might seeme to haue receiued in King Edwardes time so muche as I should haue done if I had receiued it of a Catholique Bishop and after the order of the Catholique Churche being wel assured that those who tooke vpon them to geue Orders were altogether out of Order them selues and ministred them not according to the rite and manner of the Catholique Churche as who had forsaken the whole Succession of Bishops in al Christendome and had erected a new Congregation of their owne planting the forme whereof was imagined only in their owne braines and had not benne seene nor practised in the world before Now the same reasons which with many other moued me I proponed to M. Iewel not being wholly without hope but that through Gods grace they might haue moued him also And yet he not vnwitting that I had returned to the vniuersal and onely true Churche and that I had taken a better ground of Priesthod then his Secte hath among whom al external Priesthod is vtterly denied he dissembling al this wil seeme to be a Priest by my knowledge and confession as if he and I had benne made priestes by the same man No no M. Iewel We were in parte together but I thanke God of it wee were not wholly together For I was with you with feare of God and with misliking of many your deedes and opinions and with desire to serue God in that Truthe Religion and Churche wherein I might safely reste and quiet my selfe In your fellowship I soughte that safe quietnes but I neuer founde it bicause my feete were not staied vpon the Rocke nor vpon anie sure grounde sith I sawe what ye misliked but I sawe not what ye woulde haue I sawe what ye pulled downe but I sawe not what ye set vp I sawe from what auncient Churche ye were departed but I sawe you not to goe to any elder societie of faithful men then your selues were And yet I knewe and at the length considered that Christes Churche must be aboue fifteen hundred yeres olde whereas your Churche place it at Wittenberge at Zuriche or in what other corner so euer ye wil is not yet ful fiftye yeres olde and your firste Preacher can shewe no commission either ordinarie or miraculous for him selfe These reasons with diuers other moued me the same also ought to haue moued you And bicause you can not answer them you dissemble them and therefore of your lawful Commission Vocation and Sending you speake neuer a worde Iewel 130. Father as if you vvere my Metropolitane ye demaunde of me vvhether I be a Bishop or no. I ansvver you I am a Bishop and that by the free and accustomed Canonical Election of the vvhole Chapter of Sarisburie assembled solemnely together for that purpose Harding It was no free Election M. Iewel M. Iewels canonical election to the See of Sarisburie when the Chapter whiche chose you saw that excepte it chose you it selfe shoulde be in danger of the lawe and of the Princes displeasure It was no Canonical Election when he was chosen whom the olde Canons haue iudged vnable for that Vocation For howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe Prieste who teacheth that there is not at al any external Priesthod in the Churche Howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe prieste who teacheth with the olde condemned Heretique Aerius Epiphan Haeres 75. that by Gods lawe there is no difference betwen a Bisshoppe and a priest How can he be lawfully chosen Bishoppe in Sarisburie according to the olde Canons who teacheth al the olde Canons to be superstitiouse wherein from the Apostles time Praiers for the dead were commaunded and prescribed What Canon can allowe his Election who breaketh the Vnitie of the Churche and diuideth him selfe and his flocke 〈…〉 Quenes Chappel let M. Richard Chaundler prebendarie there and Archedeacon of Sarisburie let your owne frende and faithfelowe M. Parry Chauncellour of that Churche be demaunded whether I was present at your Election and gaue free and open consent vnto it or no. I maruel that you who can remember so many sayinges of Glosers and Canonistes could not remember to cal for the Registers booke or for the witnesse of those of that Church there with you daily present to vnderstand the truth hereof before you wrote this much You knew it you knew it right wel M.
quenche heate that your Nonnes also if they beginne to be wanton shal take husbandes and so mortifie the lustes of their flesh For making the perfourmance of the Vow but a matter of reason and conuenience ye seeme easily to dispense with their marriages in case of hote and vrgent temptations For so men are wont to dispense with that which semeth reasonable and conuenient when a greater reason seemeth to moue them to the contrarie But let vs leaue your saying to your owne construction The Foūders and chiefe maisters of this nevv Gospel are iudged vnreasonable mē by M. I. him selfe By the same this much you graunte at the least that so many of your Gospel as haue broken their Vow of Chastitie and haue married haue don otherwise then was conuenient and agreable to reason Thus ye make the Founder of your Religion Frier Luther an vnreasonable man Such was Oecolampadius such was Bucer such was Peter Martyr such were in manner al the reste of your fleshly Prelates Teachers Preachers and Ministers who being Religious by taking Yokefelowes vnto them haue broken their Vow and promise to God I canne you thanke M. Iewel for graunting this muche althoughte it be too litle Mary to your companions I doubte not it seemeth too muche And litle thanke doubtelesse shal you haue at their handes for it For the breache of their Vowe being graunted to be against reason and a thing inconuenient how shal Gods people beleeue their doctrine to be reasonable and their liues to be conuenient Sure I am that neither Luther him selfe nor Bucer nor Peter Martyr nor any of the reste could euer be persuaded to acknowledge and confesse so much And were they now a liue they would be offended with you for so saying And how your good married brothers of England wil like you for it I doubte for asmuch at it is not for their profite the people should vnderstand that by your owne confession their Preachers and spiritual Gouernours specially such as were professed in any Religion for certaine it is that they be Votaries by taking wiues haue done the thing that is inconuenient and al together against reason What a hainous crime it is to contemne the vow of Chastitie and to breake promise with God it may be declared in an other place Here onely we take that you confesse your selfe that it is against reason and not conuenient As for the saying you allege out of the third booke of Cyrillus in Leuiticum Forgerie it can serue you to no purpose but to witnesse your forgerie and falshoode For there is no such saying in that booke If any man be moued to breake his vowe vpon warrant of those wordes you are gilty of the crime If the Priestes of England be no Votaries as you say yet what say you to the Priestes of other countries Is it lawful for them of Germanie Fraunce Italie Spaine and of other landes who haue made the vow of chastitie to marrie That it is not lawful I haue sufficiently proued in my Confutation For the Scriptures be plaine that a Vowe made to God is to be perfourmed Neither willed I that which I said in my Confutation to be vnderstanded of your felowes of England onely How excuse you then your brethren of other Countries VVhat hath M. Ievvel to say in defence of the votaries mariages in other lādes besides England that firste gaue the onset and aduentured to set your Gospel a broche What say you for Luther for Peter Martyr your owne good frende and Maister and for many such others who were not onely Priestes but also Religious menne and feared not to yoke them selues in pretensed marriage vnto Nonnes If they did wickedly therein as no man lyuing can excuse them how is not your Gospel builded vpon an euil foundation But this is too large a fielde at this present for vs to walke in I looke stil when you wil come to the point that requireth your direct Answer As for the Priestes of England what moueth you to say they be no Votaries What priuiledge haue they aboue al other Priestes of Christendome at least of the Latine That priestes of England be Votaties and West Churche Who euer said it Who euer wrote it Where euer found you it Or if any where it be found which I trow ye shal neuer be hable to shew in any authentical writer what reason hath the reporter for it O say you it is knowen and confessed But your word M. Iewel is no Gospel Your bare affirmation is of smal credite If ye haue no better proufe for it and ye wil doo by my reade in case you be a Priest be not ouer hasty to take a Yokefelow yet as your companions haue don For surely not withstanding your maruelous knowledge and bold confession you are like to proue deceiued Mary if you be no Priest as I can not tel what to make of you then go to it and God send you better lucke then some of your felowes haue had For proufe that Priestes of England are Votaries this is most certaine that the Vowe of Chastitie is annexed vnto holy Orders by statute of holy Churche and that with most conuenient reason the Church hath ordeined The vovv of chastitie annexed vnto holy Orders that al from a Bishop to a Subdeacon shal vowe Chastitie Which thing the Grecians also admitted though not vniuersally For although they marrie not after holy Orders receiued yet they vse matrimonie before holy Orders contracted Wherfore there is no doubte but euery man that taketh holy Orders be he of England or of what countrie soeuer in the west Church promiseth cōtinencie ipso facto that is to say by the very taking it selfe of Orders whether he expresse it in wordes or holde his peace That the vowe of Chastitie is required at the taking of holy Orders we haue these plaine wordes of S. Gregorie The vovve of Chastitie required at the taking of Subdeaconship by whose procurement our English nation was conuerted to the Faith and at whose handes the Church of England receiued al order and institution necessarie to Christian life Nullum Subdiaconum facere praesumant Episcopi nisi qui se victurum castè promiserit Let Bishops not presume to make any Subdeacon onlesse he promise to liue in chastitie Iustinian that Christian Emperour who liued within fiue hundred yeres after Christe Grego li. 1. epi. 42. gaue the like charge vnto Bishops Neither was it S. Gregorie that first made this Decree or statute Nouell 123. He did but commaund the auncient Order and Tradition of the Churche to be renewed and more exactly to be kepte as certaine others his after commers Bishops of Rome did when they sawe the olde discipline broken and austeritie of life in some parte of the clergie slaked The Fathers of the second Councel of Carthage which was holden aboue eleuen hundred yeres past Concil Carthag 2. Ca. 2. Leo epist 92. ca. 3.
others whiche he thought best to conceele and dissemble One thing good Reader it behoueth thee much to be warned of in case thou desire to stande an vpright vmpeere betwen M. Iewel and me Vpon what places so euer thou shalt happen to light in which he shal seeme to haue any good aduantage against me or against the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche passe not them ouer lightly weigh wel both our groundes examine both our allegations truste not to ought that is laid forth by either of vs presently but resort to the Bookes whence euery thing is taken Doing so thou shalt most certainely perceiue whether of vs both vseth more truth Doubtlesse in such places thou shalt seldō it were much so saie neuer find him to allege the wordes whereby he pretēdeth any colour of aduantage without some false sleight or other If thou desire to vnderstand this by some examples consider I praie thee what great a doo he maketh about the name of Vniuersal Bishop Vniuersal Bishop As he handleth that matter if a man wil beleeue him al thinges seeme to be plaine on his side Defence 120. The Coūcel of Carthage saith he decreed by expresse wordes that the Bishop of Rome should not be called the Vniuersal Bishop And behold Reader the confidēce that he hath in this cause which he sheweth with these wordes speaking vnto me This you saie is forged and falsified and is no part of that Conucel For indifferēt trial both of the truth ād of the falshed herein I besech you behold the very wordes of the Councel euen as they are alleged by your owne Doctour Gratian. These they are Prima Sedi◠Episcopus c. Let not the Bishoppe of any of the first Sees be called the Prince of Priestes Dist 99. Primae or the highest Priest or by any like name but onely the Bishoppe of the first See But let not the Bishoppe of Rome him selfe be called the Vniuersal Bishoppe c. Now M. Harding compare our wordes and the Councelles wordes together We saie none otherwise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome him selfe ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop Herein we doo neither adde nor minis he but reporte the wordes plainely as we finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and would haue tried this matter as you saie by your learning ye might wel haue reserued these vnciuile reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpō this Defender Here is muche a doo as thou feest Reader and al standeth vpon falshed as I said at the first in my Confutation We striue not for the name of Vniuersal Bishop neither hath the Pope Challenged that title Yet these menne haue neuer donne with Vniuersal Bishop The whole matter is soone answered These wordes vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Concil Carthag 3 Cap. 26. The Bishop of Rome ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop these wordes I saie be not the wordes of the thirde Councel of Carthage nor in the Greeke nor in the Latine but the wordes of Gratian and they stande for the Summe of that parte of the distinction whiche there foloweth And thereof M. Iewel was not ignorant as it appeareth by his owne wordes in the same place Howbeit were it true that Gratian had ignorantly added them to the Councel as wordes of the Coūcel what learned man trusteth Gratian a man not greatly trusted in respect of sundrie his allegations when it is easy to see the Original For this I referre the Reader to the 39. Chapter of the third Booke of this Treatie fol. 184. b. Perusing that I haue answered to this point there thou shalt fully vnderstand how falsly M. Iewel hath dealte therein and how litle cause he had so to triumphe For neither hath the Councel any suche woordes at al nor speaketh it there so much as one worde of the Bishop of Rome nor hath Gratian put those wordes as a testimonie of the Councel but as the Summe of that parte of the 99. Distinction which immediatly foloweth As wel might M. Iewel haue said that those other wordes there placed vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis had ben the wordes of that Councel He that knoweth Gratians manner of writing can not but either laugh at M. Iewelles ignorance or maruaile at his impudencie To proue that it is lawful for a man to marrie a wife being in holy Orders The example of Eupsychius he allegeth the example of one Eupsychius who was a Laie Gentleman of Caesaria the chiefe Citie in Cappadocia and in a time of persecution suffred Martyrdom soone after that he had benne married Now most falsly he corrupteth the reporter of the Storie and maketh this Eupsychius a Bishop that it might appeare to the ignorant that one had married a wife after he had benne made a Bishop which would haue serued our married Superintendentes purpose gaily For yet after so many yeres searche they can not bring vs forth so much as one cleare example of the ancient Churche that euer there was any Bishop or Priest married after that degree and holy Order taken With such vncleane conueiance their vncleane treacherie is defended Defence 176. Cassio li. 6. cap. 14. His wordes be these Cassiodorus writeth thus In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they saie Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria died in Martyrdome hauing married a wife a litle before being yet in manner a newe married man Beholde Reader the falshod of this man First contrarie to his custome elswhere he leaueth the Greeke fonteine where this Storie was First written and goeth to the riuer of the olde translation in many places not most exactly answering the Greeke And why did he so Forsooth bicause if he had alleged Sozomenus the Greeke writer his falshod had benne fowly bewraied For he nameth this Eupsychius expressely Eupsychius a laie-man by M. Iewels forgerie made a Bishop to proue the Mariages of Priestes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to saie Eupsychius one of the Lordes or one of the Nobilitie of the Citie of Caesaria in Cappadocia Then bicause the Tripartite Storie of Cassiodorus setting foorth hath not so expressely that he was a nobleman of Caesaria M. Iewel was so bolde as to falsifie the place and to putte in of his owne this woorde Episcopum to helpe his matter and so corrupting his authour maketh him to cal him Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria Thus he taketh vpon him to make him a Bishoppe who was a Laie man as wel a Bishoppe as he him selfe is that it might appeare to the vnlearned that a Bisshoppe married a wife after he was Bisshoppe Fol. 302. 318. See what I haue said hereto in this Treatie where I answer his false stuffe touching
wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
Esaie Esai 5â— This is my couenaunt with them my spirite whiche is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mowth shal not departe from thy mowth and from the mowth of thy seede and from the mowth of thy seedes seede from this time for euer Lo here ye heare bothe the wordes of God and the Spirite of truthe by whom the wordes may be rightly vnderstanded promised to remaine with the Church for euer Thus we are wel assured that the Churche hath neuer failed nor wanted Goddes worde goddes Spirite and Goddes truthe But ye my Maisters of the new learning do say that the Churche failed and was destitute of Goddes worde and of his spirite of Truthe for the space of nyne hundred yeres and more vntil Martin Luther came and restored the lost Gospel By vertue of whiche Gospel neuer preached before ye claime the right of the Church and so would dispossesse vs wherein of necessitie ye must graunt one of these two either that Christe the Sonne of God promised more then he perfourmed whiche were heinous blasphemie or that your Churche hath continued til this day and shal continue to the worldes ende If to eschew the reproche of so wicked a blasphemie ye graunt the continuance of your Churche ye must tel vs where it was before Luther began to preache that ye cal the Gospel Name the place where was it Or was it somewhere without a place Dic quibus in terris eris mihi magnus Apollo If it were at al where were your Bishops What were their names or were they men without names Bring forth your Originals your Registers your Rolles of Bishops that folowed one after an other by lawful succession For this were a sure way for proufe of your right Tertull. In prascript Optatus August muche commended and vsed of the best learned Fathers Your Actes and Monumentes where be they Haue ye none of greater antiquitie then those late of Foxes making If ye had a continual succession how came Luther and Zuinglius first to the Gospel how was al the light quite out before how were al the fonteines of the water of life vtterly dryed vp before his time for so ye write in your Apologie This this can not stand together M. Iewel by no meanes as al the world may see So then it is we kepe our ancient Possession ye heaue and shooue to remoue vs from it We be of the howseholde ye are strangers We are the heires of the Apostles ye are forrainers We are the lawful Children of the Churche ye are Bastardes to be shorte and plaine whereas we are Catholiques what foloweth but that ye be Heretiques The case standing thus what great offence haue I committed if where I defende the common cause of the Churche being moued with dew zeale and iuste griefe of mynde to see your vngodly dealinges I forgete sometimes the flattering Titles wherewith ye woulde your proceedinges to be magnified and vse wordes more agreable to your desertes O ye saie I vse vncourteous and vnciuile speache Why sir if ye skreake like Frogges must we saie ye sing like Nightingalles If ye crowe like proude Cockes must we saie ye mourne like simple Dooues If ye byte vs like Mastiâ—â—s must we say ye licke vs like gentle Spaniâ—h If ye consume vs and deuoure vs like rauening Wolues must we say ye profite vs like good Sheepe Must we tel the worlde that your Serpentes be Fisshes your Snakes be Lamproies your Scorpions be Creauises briefly that your deadly Poison is holesom Triacle What were this but to please men and to deceiue Goddes people But let vs go from Metaphores and come to the plaine mater If your Doctrine be false as by most sufficient waies we haue proued it to be shal we be vnciuile excepte we sooth it If your deedes be vngodly as the worlde seeth and rueth shal we be vncourteous excepte we iustifie them If ye say Nay for Yea and Yea for Nay in Goddes causes shal we be blamed as men vnciuil and vncourteous except we vpholde your Yea and your Nay We can be content to lacke the praise of suche sinneful Ciuilitie of suche wicked Courtesie If any priuely pike money out of our purses steale our goodes robbe by the high waye kil men and attempte traison to their Princes person standeth it with good manner to cal them Pikepurses Theeues Robbers Murderers Traitours and whereas you and your felowes teache and stubbornly mainteine a false doctrine concerning the real presence that here I speake of no other pointes by the Churche and by Luther him selfe the first founder of your owne Gospel condemned for Heresie must it needes be an vncourteous parte to cal you Heretiques To touche some of your rawest Gaulles for making proffer to whiche ye wince and kicke so muche euery where â—nd specially where ye laye forth al my sharpe wordes with suche diligence gathered together out of my bookes into one heape before your Preface to the Reader For so muche as it is geuen forth by Luthers owne confession that by the conference and disputation which the Deuil had with him he was persuaded to defie the Masse and become enemie to the blessed Sacrifice of the Churche and your selfe M. Iewel haue geuen your verdite in fauour of Luther and Satan Sathans doctrine Sathan their Schoole Maister In the Replie art 1. Diuision 2. allowing Satans Doctrine in that point and Luthers conformitie imbracing the same also for your owne parte as you haue openly witnessed in your Replie what offence was it to say for whiche you shewe your selfe greeued that ye ioined with Satan and concerning the spite ye beare at the Masse to cal Satan your Schoolemaister That I called this new founded Churche of the Protestantes a Babylonical tower not without iuste cause It angreth you that I cal this new Church of yours for so a Gods name we must name it Your Babylonical Tower And this is for a heinous worde scored vp among the rest in your said Rolle you tel the Quene of it also in your Epistle to her Maiestie but how iustly ye be offended therewith let it be considered by that I shal here briefly declare Dissensions among the Protestantes Who knoweth not that is any thing acquainted with the affaires of oure age into how many Sectes they haue diuided them selues that forsooke the Catholique Churche sithence Luther beganne to leade vs a newe daunce in Religion what controuersies debates and strifes about the weightiest pointes of our Faith haue benne stirred vp and moste earnestly mainteined among them Who hath not heard of the brawling and skolding betwene Luther and Zuinglius and the vpholders of either side about the Doctrine of the Euchariste Neither hath the matter benne handled with any better quiet betwene the Osiandrines and the Stancarians touching the Iustification of man the one Secte attributing it vnto Christes Diuine nature the other vnto his humaine nature onely Againe what sturre hath benne made about
lib. coÌ„t 9. sectas In the booke in tituled Recta fides de Caena Domin nor by writinges nor by worde nor by deede as the Lord hath commaunded whether he be Zuenckfeldius or Zuinglius or what soeuer he be called And in an other place he condemneth by name Zuinglius Carolostadius and Oecolampadius with al their diuers and dissonant sacramentarie heresies Nicolaus Amsdorffius a famous Superindent in Germanie saith thus plainely Thirdely we condemne the Sacramentaries Zuinglius and his felowes The publike write of the princes of Mansfeld and of the yonger princes of Saxonie doth recken vp in the rolle of condemned Heretiques the Sacramentaries by name Ioachimus Westphalus saith No false doctrine is so farre spred none with such labour and hypocrisie is defended â—oâ—e hath more beguiled the worlde then this false doctrine of the blessed Sacrament meaning Caluines owne doctrine learned first of Berengarius of whom you haue no cause you saie to be ashamed If Heretiques of your own schoole can not make you ashamed of Berengarius and his doctrine what say you to the great General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome vnder Innocentius the third CouÌ„cel of Laterane thereof called Concilium Lateranense That Councel was an vniuersal assemblie out of al partes of Christendom Platina in InnoceÌ„tio tertio The great Assemblie of Laterane Councel as wel out of the Greeke Church as out of the Latine The Patriarkes of Constantinople and Hierusalem were there present Archebishoppes were there threescore and ten Bishoppes foure hundred and twelue Abbates and Priores more then eight hundred There were at that Councel the Ambassadours of both Emperours both of the West Churche and of the East also of the kinges of Hierusalem of Fraunce of Spaine of England and of Cyprus In this Councel so general and vniuersal the Heresie of Berengarius was condemned Concil Lateran Cap. 1. and the doctrine of Transubstantiation by occasion of his heresie exactly and fully discussed was by general consent of al plainely and clearely confirmed If the Sentence Consent and Accorde of the whole vniuersal Church can moue you M. Iewel then haue you good cause to be ashamed of Berengarius whose heresie was in so ful ample and General a Councel condemned as none in this worlde was euer greater If al this moue you not yet let Berengarius him selfe De Consecrat Dist 2. Ego BereÌ„garius whom you esteme so muche moue you to be ashamed of his doctrine of the whiche he him selfe was so muche ashamed at length and not onely in iudgement openlâ— recanted but also 〈◊〉 the houre of his Death ful bitterlâ— and hartily repented him selfe thereof as by sides otherâ— Guilelmus Malmesburiensis recordeth saying thus Guilelmus Malmesburiensis de gastis Anglorum lib. 3. Ipse Berengarius die Epiphaniorum moriens gâ—â—iâ—â—â— producto recordatus quot miseros quondam adolescenâ— primo errâ—ris â—alâ—tâ— secta infecerit bodie inquit in die Apparitionis suae apparabit mihi Dominus meus Iesus Christus vel propter poenitentiam vt spero ad gloriam vel propter alios vt timeâ— ad poenam Nos sanè credimus post benedictionem Ecclesiasticam illa Mysteria esse verum corpus sanguinem saluatoris adducti veteris Ecclesiae authoritate maltis noâ—iter ostensis miraculis Berengâ—rius himselfe as he laie dying vpon the Epiphanie daie whiche we cal Twelfth daie and with heauy be wailing called vnto remembrance how many miserable personnes he had infected with his heresie in youth at the firste heatâ— of the Sacramentarie Errour spake these wordes He alluded to the vvord Epiphanie vvhiche signifieth appearing or reuealiÌ„g This daie my Lorde Iesus Christe being the daie of his appearance shal appeare vnto me either to glorie as I truste bicause it repenteth me of my heresie or to pounishment as I feare me for the sake of others whom I haue seduced What so euer it shal please God to doe with me Truely I beleeue that after Consecration vsed in the Churche those Mysteries are the true Bodie and Bloude of our Sauiour being persuaded both by the authoritie of the auncient Churche and by many Miracles shewed of late yeres Thus ye maie see how so euer ye be not ashamed of Berengarius that yet Berengarius is ashamed of you Iewel Pag. 48. But as for your doctrine bicause it is only of your selues therefore it falleth daily and is novv forsaken the vvorlde through Harding Our doctrine is the doctrine of the Fathers not of our selues neither is the same forsaken The Catholique doctrine The .16 Chapt. The Fathers of the first 600. yeres reiected In institut Cap. 18. de coena Domi. Iacobus Acontius StratageÌ„ Sathan lib. 6. whiche you cal oures hath ben by your owne Confession welneare a thowsand yeres olde I cal your Confession your solemne prescription of the first .600 yeres For prescribing the one ye renounce the other It can not therefore seeme to be of vs that liue now whiche by your owne Confession hath ben so auncient Howbeit it is euident the first 600. yeres stande as fully for vs as doo the later Therefore Iohn Caluine accuseth the first 600. yeres of Iudaisme and of Iewish superstition namely in the matter of the blessed Sacrifice Therefore Iacobus Acontius one of your owne side in his booke dedicated to the Quenes Maiestie plainely misliketh and reproueth such as offer to be tried by the auncient Fathers calling it perniciosissimam omninoque fugiendam consuetudinem a most pernicious custome and altogether to be auoided Therefore M. Nowel as this Acontius calleth it a * Valde amplum spatium Novvel in the preface of his first booke large scope to trie matters by the Fathers And he that hath vttered so muche blasphemie against the Crosse of Christe for his parte also protesteth plainely In the booke against the Cross that he wil not be tried by the Fathers And why al this M. Iewel Mary thâ—y know â—ight wel that by the Fathers you are condemned and that our doctrine by them is clearely established Wâ— therefore haue learned of our Auncestours al that we teache We haue inuented nothing of our selues Your beginning is knowen and is yet in mannes memorie When Papistrie as you cal it beganne you can neuer 〈◊〉 for your life The Gospelleâ— I shal neuer be haÌ„ble to shevv vvhen Papistrie beganne otherwise then with the beginning of Christes gospel Shewe once M. Iewel when in what age in what place Countrie Citie or Churche of whom vnder what Pope Emperour or Prince Papistrie beganne and then saie hardely it is our Doctrine and only of our selues Except you shewe this your lie wil seme palpable If ye haue ought to shew for the worship of your cause bring it forth be it but one sentence or one halfe sentence The Catholique doctrine vntruly reported by M. Ievvel to be forsaken al the vvorld through In like manner a sensible and a palpable lie it
you least vs in this case as Iudge and supreme Gouernour to ende al Dissensions and to condemne perilous Heresies They of Germanie take them selues to be as good menne and to knowe the Truth as wel if no better as either D. Parker of Canturburie or M. Grindal of London or Bacheler Yonge of Yorke or any of the other wiued Priestes Monkes and Friers yea as M Iew. of Sarisburie him selfe Ye of England wil not yelde to them of Saxonie they of Lifeland Swethen Denmarke Pole Scotland Zuitzerland and Geneua wil not yelde them selues subiectes to either of you both And yet euery one of these sundry congregations wil preach stil the doctrine of their owne secte one coÌ„trarie to an other How now M. Iewel Let vs heare what wise tale you caÌ„ tel vs by whose authoritie we maie come from these great Dissensions and manifold Schismes to Vnitie Intreatie can not doo it Colloquies meetinges and Conferences of the learned of eche secte can not bring it to passe The more it hath ben attempted the worse ende hath euer benne concluded Haue not you leaft vs then a beautiful Church a blessed coÌ„panie of Ministers that wil not come to Order Yea leauing vs without any lawful authoritie of one Head to reduce vs to vnitie do you not leaue vs in endlesse strifes and indeterminable broilles Be we not much bound vnto you Were not the worlde wise and wel aduised to forsake al old orders and to put coÌ„fidence in this your new deuise The same selfe S. Chrysostome whom you allege to haue al ruled by the Scriptures sawe a litle farther then you see M. Iewel when he said that the charge of the whole worlde was committed to Peter Chrysost in Matth. Homil. 55. Ambros in cap. 24. Luca. Theodoritus in Epist ad Renatum Cyprianus lib. 3. Epist 13. So did S. Ambrose when he named Peter and by a consequent Peters Successour the Vicare of Christes loue So did Theodoritâ—â— when he said the See of Rome holdeth the sterne and hath the gouernment of the Churches of the whole worlde You allege S. Cyprian though farre otherwise then he writeth and that out of that epistle in whiche he willeth Stephanus the Pope to depose Martianus the Bishop of Arles in Fraunce for Heresie and put an other in his roome whiche argueth a supreme authoritie of gouernment in the Pope you allege him I saie as if he said that therefore there are many Bishoppes in the Churche that if one fal into heresie the rest maie helpe But what if there be as many Heretique Bishoppes as there be Catholique as it hath commonly benne seene in the East Churche What if the Heretiques being more learned wil not yeelde Cyprian ad Cornelium lib. 1. Epist. 3. S. Cyprian in an other place spareth not to tel you that Schismes aÌ„d heresies rise of no other cause then for that the whole brotherhed that is to saie the companie of Christian people Obeye not one high Prieste that is in Christes steede Whiche saying by what reason it taketh place in euery seueral Dioces by the same it is to be vnderstanded in respecte of the whole worlde For as Heresies rise of disobedience of the people to their Bishop so they rise no lesse yea rather muche more as experience teacheth of the disobedience of the Bishoppes them selues if they wil not be vnder one Head And as the people are not kepte in vnitie but by being vnder one Bishop so neither the Bishoppes excepte they be likewise vnder one chiefe Head and ruler who is the Successour of Peter to whom as louing Christe more then the reste whiche the Scripture sheweth the charge not onely of the lambes and weaker sheepe but also of the great and stronger sheepe was committed as S. Ambrose before alleged hath wel noted Whether S. Peter were faulte worthy when S. Paule reproued him as you tel vs without proufe Defence pag. 103. it remaineth in question betwixte S. Augustine and S. Hierome But if there were any thing worthy of reprehension in S. Peter that S. Paule sawe there was great humilitie in S. Peter to agnise the faulte by the warning of his inferiour Likewise there was in S. Victor the Pope in that he would geue eare vnto S. Ireneus Of that S. Peters humilitie thus speaketh S. Cyprian in his epistle to Quintus whiche is also rehearsed of S Augustine August li. 2. de Baptis cont Donatist cap. 1. Nam nec Petrus quem primum Dominus elegit super quem aedificauit Ecclesiam suam cùm secum Paulus de Circumcisione disceptaret postmodum vendicauit sibi aliquid insolenter aut arroganter assumpsit vt diceret se primatum tenere obtemperari à nouellis posteris sibi potius debere Example of humilitie to S. Peter For neither Peter whom our Lorde chose to be first and vppon whom he builded his Churche at what time Paule reasoned with him about Circumcision by and by chalenged any thing proudly vnto him selfe or stately tooke ought vpon him as to saie that he helde the Primacie or the chiefe rule ouer al and that suche as came newly to the Faith and were his aftercommers ought rather to obeie him But this kinde of humilitie is not found emong Heretiques The more courteously they be warned of their Heresie the more stubborne they growe and staie not so but doo the vttermost they can to make their parties as good as the Catholiques as by sundry olde heretiques to them that haue reade the Trâ—gedies by them plaied in the Churche is most euident How now M. Iewel What remedie Shal we resorte in this case to any Head that hath General authoritie or stand stil iarring and snarling the one at the other without alremedie For ought I see you are like to leaue vs stil in the briers Touching your gloses of the Canon Lawe they maie perhappes one daie if it shal be thought worth the labour be altogether answered in some one seueral treatise where doubtelesse it shal appeare to your smal estimation with what beggerly ragges and clowtes you haue patched together your clowted cloke Iewel Pag. 104. For the rest M. Harding saith One King is hable to rule one Kingdome Ergo one Pope is hable to rule the vvhole Churche Harding My talke runneth not so bare as you rehearse it your grace is alwaie to reporte worse then you finde I said that a King or Queene in gouerning a Realme ruleth not al in his owne person but doth many thinges by his Deputees and Officers Euen so why maie not the Pope in al Christendome take order by other fitte menne hauing from him commission notwithstanding his person be not present For very shame M. Iewel make not your Aduersaries tale worse then you finde it For by that you must muche discredite your cause Iewel Pag. 104. Of the gouernment of Princes vve haue daielie practise But of Popes that euer vsed this vniuersal Dominion ouer the vvhole Church of
muche as Priestes there sate in the Church where Deacons vsed to stande and the Deacons neuer durste to sitte emonge the Priestes Hiero. in eadeÌ„ epistol ad eÌ„uagriuÌ„ whiles the Bisshop was present Although he confesseth that once in the Bishoppes absence he sawe a Deacon when disorder tooke place sitting emong the Priestes and at priuate Feastes in priuate houses geuing the benediction to Priestes Whereby it is manifest that the preferring of Deacons aboue Priestes rose not of any ordinarie custome of the Churche of Rome where al states best keept due order in the Bisshoppes presence but of the priuate pride of some Deacons and of the simplicitie of the people of that Citie Therefore S. Hierome saith not Quid mihi profers Romanae Ecclesiae consuetudinem why bringest me forth the custome of the Romaine Churche but Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem Why bringest me the custome of one Citie The ignorant people made more of the Deacons Euseb lib. 6. Eccles histor ca. 33. bicause they were but fewe in number to wit but only seuen at one time as Eusebius maketh mention whereas at that time there were six and fortie Priestes in that Churche whom the people as S. Hierome saith for the number had in contempte Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus siue Romae siue Eugubij siue CoÌ„stantinopoli siue Rhegij siue Alexandriae siue Tanis eiusdem meriti eiusdem est sacerdotij Beholde Reader how M. Iewel hath translated this sentence Where so euer there be a Bisshop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanis they are al of one worthinesse they are al of one Bisshoprike Where the nominatiue case Episcopus Bishop being of the singulare number so placed by S. Hierome with the verbe Est also of the singular number bicause it serued not M. Iewels turne guilfully in translation a change is made into the plural and thereby the meaning of the sentence cleane altered to thintent the sentence might so the rather sounde to his purpose whiche is to make al Bishoppes equal in authoritie of rule and gouernment Now S. Hieromes wordes doo signifie that a Bishop is of the same Merite and of the same Priesthood whether he be Bishop of a great Citie or of a litle And here is to be noted that M. Iewel can not yet brooke this worde Merite and whereas before he vsed the worde Preeminence being by me admonished of it now he translateth eiusdem est meriti they are al of one worthinesse Likewise he termeth eiusdem sacerdotij of one Bishoprike for of one Priesthood How so euer you bring in S. Hierome for the equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes it forceth not It is wel knowen S. Hierome neuer dreamed of suche an equalitie as you would haue when he wrote this sentence Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet Hieron aduersus Luciferainos cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in Eccesia efficientur schismata quot sacerdotes The sauegarde of the Churche dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest Bishop vnto whom if a peerelesse and supreme power be not yelded there shal arise so many Schismes in the Churche as there be Priestes If God haue a special regarde to the safetie of the Churche and if the Churche can not be safe without there be a peerelesse and a supreme power yeelded vnto the highest Priest whiche is a Bishop as S. Hierome saith what so euer M. Iewel saie to the contrarie God must needes allowe the hauing of suche Bishoppes as shal haue power peerelesse to rule their flockes not onely their lambes but also their sheepe to witte the Clergie the Priestes and the Deacons vnder them Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus IouinianuÌ„ He saith also Propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio Therefore is there one chosen emong the twelue saith S. Hierome who should be made Head that the occasion of Schisme might be taken away And that we should be put out of doubte who chose that one to be Head aboue al the reste and why Peter was rather chosen then Iohn that was so deerely beloued S. Hierome saith delatum est aetati partly in consideration of his age and partly bicause he would deliuer Iohn from the enuie that he should haue incurred if he had benne placed in that roome being so yong a man M. Iewel had neede to looke better vpon his booke and to learne by these places better to tempre the other sayinges of S. Hierome S. Hierome saith vnitie can not be kepte the Churche can not be in sauegarde Schismes can not be suppressed by equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes Ergo there must be Bishoppes that shal haue power to rule the Priestes and the reste Thus M. Iewels equalitie wil not stande with the doctrine of S. Hierome Although saith S. Augustine after the names of honours now vsed in the Church the state of a Bishop be greater August Epist 19. then the state of a Prieste yet in many thinges Augustine is lesse then Hierome Notwithstanding we ought not to refuse and disdaine to be corrected of any man though he be our inferiour Vpon these wordes of S. Augustine M. Iewel reasoneth that the difference of power and authoritie betwixte Bishoppes and Priestes had no allowance from Scripture but by the custome of the Churche As though one thing could not be allowed both in Scripture and also by the common custome of the Churche The common custome of the Churche teacheth vs to feare God daily doth not the Scripture allowe the same To honour our Father and mother And doth not the Scripture commaunde the same But M. Iewel would faine make debate betwixt the custome of the Churche and the holy Scripture and therefore ful prouidently he hath interlaced a Parenthesis of his owne politike deuise in this manner The office of a Bisshop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by authoritie of the Scriptures but after the names of honour whiche the custome of the Churche hath now obteined I haue here before declared that there was a secte of Heretiques calles Aerians as S. Augustine reporteth who denied that there was any difference at al betwen the state of a Bisshop and the state of a Prieste August de Haresib ad Quoduult deuÌ„ Haeres 53. whiche opinion being accompted for heresie by S. Augustine ought to stop any reasonable mans mouth and to persuade him that S. Augustines opinion is quite contrarie to that which M. Iewel holdeth Iewel Pag. 1â—1 As for Pope Leo his ovvne authoritie in his ovvne cause can not be great The Emperour saithe Nemo debet sibi ius dicere ff Li. 2. de Iurisdict omniuÌ„ Iudicum 16. q. 6. Consuetudo in margine No man maie minister lavve vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrees Papa non
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌ„fesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his â—uccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â— Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ„ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
to conclude with S. Augustine thus he saith speaking of S. Peter Quis nescit illum Apostolatus principatum August de Baptis cōtra Donatist lib. 2. cap. 1. cuilibet Episcopatui praeferendum Who knoweth not that that Princehood of the Apostleship is to be preferred before euery Bishops state Where is this great blasphemie becomme that M. Iewel so horribly layth to our charge What wil he accuse al these holy and learned Fathers of Blasphemie I hope though he spare not vs yet he wil be good Maister vnto S. Bernard S. Gregorie S. Augustine S. Chrysostome and to Eusebius As for S. Leo who is plainest of al I dare not here to name least I should seeme to reuerse M. Iewels high iudgemēt whom he hath so late here before by his solēne sentence cōdemned Yet it maie please him to be aduertised by vs that Titles which appertaine to God him selfe when they are in their dewe order and degree geuen vnto menne Exod. 7. Psal 81. conteine no blasphemie Moyses is called in Scripture the God of Pharao And rulers in the Psalmes are called also by the name of Goddes Iewel As for the other authoritie of S. Cyprian M. Harding saith vvee vnderstood it not and therefore he vvilleth vs to looke better vpon our bookes The Councel is good c. Harding The origen of vnitie beginneth of one who is Peter by S. Cyprian The popes preeminence proued by S. Basil The .35 Chapt. The fruiteles paine you tooke in laying forth so many places of S. Cyprian together and al to the ende menne should conceiue you vnderstode your booke doth geue vs sufficient witnesse that either of malice you wil not or of ignorance you can not declare to what ende al those places doo perteine If you had ioined to these places of S. Cyprian whiche you allege but one place of the same S. Cyprian which you durst not talke of least al your confuse heape should stande you in no steede the case had ben so plaine that the shame would haue benne yours S. Cyprians whole purpose is to shew Christian menne not by long talke of argumentes but by the marking of two thinges that is to saie the Churches receiued Doctrine and the Head of the Churche how to staie them selues in the right faith and vnitie when so euer Schismes and Heresies shal happen to rise For this purpose he speaketh of the Churche and of the vnitie of the Church whiche vnitie among diuers other thinges doth principally stand in the hauing of one Bishop to be Head ouer al. Although saith S. Cyprian Christe geue equal power after his resurrection to al the Apostles and saie Cyprianus de Simplic Praelatorum as my Father hath sent me euen so doo I sende you receiue ye the holy Ghost if ye shal remitte any mannes sinnes they shal be remitted vnto him if ye shal retaine any mannes sinnes they shal be reteined yet to the ende he would make Vnitie manifest he ordeined by his authoritie the beginning or origine of the same vnitie to beginne from one to witte from Peter The reste of the Apostles were the same that Peter was endewed with like felowship both of honour and of power but the beginning riseth forth from vnitie to witte frō Peter that the Churche may be shewed to be one Hitherto S. Cyprian This place of S. Cyprian doth sufficiently proue not only that Christe beganne his Church from Peter but also why he would there should be only one from whom he might beginne his Churche and not those many of whom M. Iewel dreameth bicause saith he he would haue his Churche shewed one The plaine meaning whereof can be none other but that the Vnitie of the Churche can by no other waie so conueniently stand as by the hauing of one visible Bishop head ouer al. As the multitude of Priestes Hieron ad Euagrium of whom S. Hierome speaketh in his Epistle to Euagrius was driuen to choose one to be Bishop emong them in Alexandria that was S. Markes see to auoide Schismes that would haue rent and torne the Churche asundre and to keepe Vnitie euen so S. Cyprian sawe that emong the multitude of Bishoppes the case being like to auoide Schismes and to keepe vnitie Hiero. aduersus louinianum lib. 1. it was necessarie one Bishop to be placed head ouer al. The which thing S. Hierome saith Christ did when he ordeined Peter Head of the Apostles to take awaie occasion of Schisme As touching the place of S. Basil alleged for the gouernement by a multitude of Pastours if M. Iewel meane Basil ad Neocaesarienses that S. Basil thought the multitude of Pastours should rule without hauing of one Head he is farre deceiued and yet that must he meane otherwise that place maketh nothing for him But that vntrue meaning of his needeth no other wise to be controlled then by S. Basil him selfe writing thus to S. Athanasius Basiliusin epistol ad Athanasium pag. 549. In Graeco codic Frobe◠Visum est vtile scribere ad Episcopum Romanum vt consideret res nostras iudicij sui decretum interponat vt quoniam de communi Conciliari Decreto aliquos inde huc emandari difficile est ipse sua authoritate negotium componat c. It hath seemed good vnto vs to write vnto the Bishop of Rome that he wil consider of our cases or * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 visite vs for so the Greke maie be translated and to determine the matter by his sentēce that for as much as it is hard for any to be sent hither from thence by authoritie of a common and Synodical Decree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he take the matter into his owne hande and by his authoritie strike the stroke Why should S. Basil being a Greeke of the East Churche thinke it conuenient to write to the Bishop of Rome being in the Weast to consider of or to visite them of the East for so to the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth their state and to sende foorth a Decree of his iudgement and to geue sentence onlesse he agnised the prerogatiue of the Bishop of Rome whiche your felowes denie Verely by this place it appeareth euidently of what iudgemēt S. Basil was touching the Bishop of Rome his Supreme Authoritie in rule The more ye stirre this matter the more it turneth stil to your owne shame Iewel Pag. 115. The vvhole body of Christendome vvas diuided into foure Patriarkeshippes vvhereof the first vvas Rome Harding Search out M. Iewel The .36 Chapt. by whome was the whole Body of Christendome diuided into foure Patriarkshippes whereof the first and chiefe was Rome and why Rome was the first and not rather the second or third thereby shal you perceiue how your selfe vnwares are taken in your owne snare In Praefat. Nicen. Concil In the Preface of the Nicene Councel we read that the Churche of Rome was preferred before al other not
should chalenge that name vnto him These thinges are at large proued and set forth bothe by me in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge Artic. 4. fol. 90. b. Returne Artic. 4. and by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes against you M. Iewel where you shal finde that S. Gregorie did exercise his iurisdiction ouer al the Bishops in the worlde in case they failed in any thing and tooke him selfe to haue cure and charge of them al not as a King and Tyrant but as a brother yea rather a seruant to al. Gregor Lib. 7. Epist 64. For he confesseth euery Bishop to be his equal so long as he sinneth not or as longe as his Church suffereth not some defecte And in that case he supplieth al negligences and al defectes and prouideth for al Churches in Asia in Europa and in Aphrica as his Epistles doo fully declare The whiche if I were disposed here ambitiously to blase as M. Iewelles custome is I might write out the effecte of twelue great bookes of S. Gregories epistles whiche doo fully proue these my sayinges But for so muche as that is already donne sufficiently let this one sentence serue for al. S. Gregorie saith of his owne Church of Rome The Apostolike See Head of al churches Gregor li. 11. epist 54. Apostolica Sedes omnium Ecclesiarum Caput est The Apostolike See is the Head of al Churches This being so let vs now consider that M. Iewel doth not only mislike with the name of Vniuersal Bishop as not becoÌ„ming the Bishop of Constantinople because he was of lower degree then the Bishop of Rome nor only as vnseemely also for the Bishop of Rome bicause it conteineth a proude and ambitious brag and a meaning that may be taken in euil sense for which cause no Bishop of Rome euer vsed that name Defence pag. 118. but also he misliketh with me for saying that the name of Vniuersal Bishop in a right sense is no proude name in respect of him to whom it belongeth By a right sense I meane that sense which S. Gregorie allowed and that whiche the fourth general Councel allowed Yea farther M. Iewel saith that some Popes would haue had Ibidem and ambitiously laboured for the title of Vniuersal Bisshop and againe that the Councel of Carthage forbad the Pope of Rome to be called the Vniuersal Bisshop Al these thinges are false and fond as now it shal be proued Gregor li. 4. epist 32 ad Mauricium IteÌ„ eodeÌ„ lib. epist 36. ad Eulogium Anastasium Item codem lib. epist 38. ad Iohannem CoÌ„stantinop Gregor li. 4. epist 36 Tâ—e name of Vniuersal Bishop offered to Popâ— Leo by the Councel of Chalcedon The name of Vniuersal 8. in vvhat sense agreable to the â—ope Firste S. Gregorie witnesseth that the fourthe Councel offered the name of Vniuersal Bishop to Pope Leo â–ª Therefore saie I there is a good meaning in that name whiche the See of Rome maie laufully vse For it is not to be thought that the fourth Vniuersal Councel assembled out of the whole worlde wherein were six hundred thirty and six Bishops would haue offered that name vnto the Pope whiche by no meanes could be verified of him S. Gregories wordes are these written to Eulogius and Anastasius the two patriarches of Alexandria and of Antioche Sicut veneranda vestra sanctitas nouit vni per sanctam Chalcedonensem synodum Pontifici sedis Apostolicae cui Deo disponente deseruio hoc Vniuersitatis nomen oblatum est As your Reuerend holines knoweth this name of Vniuersalitie or of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the holy Councel of Chalcedon to the only Bishop of the Apostolike See wherein I serue by the disposition of God If then that name of Vniuersalitie was offered to the Pope and onely to him how can it be iustified that the said name may in no sense be agreeable vnto the Pope of Rome If it may be agreeable vnto the Pope in any sense it is in this bicause he is the chiefe of al Bishops who by office hath care of the whole Churche For the name of Vniuersal must needes haue respecte to the Whole Churche And in that only sense did the Fathers of that Councel of Chalcedon offer that name to the Pope bicause they knew that thing dignitie and office to be in the Pope for that he is S. Peters Successour whiche cause also is expressed in S. Gregorie Gregor lib 4. epist 32. Certè nomen Vniuersalis Episcopi pro beati Petri Apostolorum Principis honore per venerandam Chalcedonensem SynoduÌ„ Romano Pontifici oblatum est Soothly the name of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the reuerend Councel of Chalcedon to the Bishop of Rome for the honour of S. Peter the Prince of the Apostles Marke M. Iewel he saith not that it was offered bicause Rome was the Emperial Citie That had ben a heathnish respecte but it was offered for the honour of S. Peter If it may then be vsed in a good sense only of that Bishop who is the Successour of S. Peter M. Iewel hath vniustly reproued me That no Pope vsed the title of Vniuersal Bishop Gregor li. 4. epis 32 Now to the second point that no Pope vsed the same title So saith S. Gregorie in the same place Nullus corum vnquam hoc singularitatis vocabulum assumpsit nec vti consensit ne dum priuatum aliquid daretur vni honore debito Sacerdotes priuarentur vniuersi None of the Bishops of Rome hath taken this name of Singularitie vpon him nor did consent to vse it lest whiles some peculiar thing should be geuen to one al Priestes or Bishops together should be depriued of their due honour This modestie was then in Popes for six hundred yeres together But this man here saith Iewel Pag. 118. VVherfore then did their Successours that folovved aftervvard so ambitiously labour to geate the same Harding They laboured not for it nor vsed it any time afterward as their style in al ages til this day doth witnesse For the Bishoppes of Rome doth not write them selues Vniuersal Bishops The Popes stile Seruus seruoruÌ„ Dei but eche one Seruum Seruorum Dei the Seruant of Goddes Seruantes And that style was of purpose taken and reteined of them to checke thereby the pride of the Bishop of Constantinople who neuer leaft his proude name of Vniuersal til the Turcke was sent ouer him to chasten bothe him for his Shisme and al that defended or obeied him in despite of the Bishop of Rome And that you bring out of Platina proueth not that any Pope euer called him selfe Vniuersal Bishop but when the Bishops of Rome sawe that the Bishops of Constantinople would needes by force keepe and vse that arrogant name Bonifacius 3. then Bonifacius the third intending to stay that together with that name the right of the See Apostolike should not be lost and passe away to the See of Constantinople then I
saie Bonifacius obteined verely not that the See of Rome should be made Vniuersal or be made Head of al Churches for so it was euer but that it might be so taken and called of al men lest the Grecians should thinke that the chiefe Pastour of Gods sheepe sate in Constantinople Whereof it would folow that if the chiefe Postour once taught Heresie as now the Bishop of Constantinople doth concerning the proceding of the holy Ghost then the whole Church should perish sith al the flocke dependeth vpon the chiefe shepeheard Now M. Iewel as he is woont to doo hath most guilefully endeuoured to persuade the Reader that the Popes cal them them selues Vniuersal Bishoppes and bringeth Platina forth in suche sorte that he wil not let him speake his whole minde His wordes are these Platina in vita Bonifacij 3. Bonifacius tertius à Phoca Imperatore obtinuit magna tamen contentione vt sedes beati Petri Apostoli quae caput est omnium Ecclesiarum ita diceretur haberetur ab omnibus quem quidem locum Ecclesia Constantinopolitana sibi vendicare conabatur fauentibus interdum malis Principibus affirmantibúsque eò loci primam sedem esse debere vbi Imperij Caput esset Affirmabant Romani Pontifices vrbem Romam vnde Constantinpolis Colonia deducta est Caput Imperij meritò habendam esse cùm etiam Graeci ipsi literis suis principem suum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est Romanorum Imperatorem vocent ipsique Constantinopolitani etiam aetate nostra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non Graeci vocentur Omitto quòd Petrus Apostolorum Princep◠Successoribus suis Pontificibus Romanis regni coelorum claues dederit potestatémque à Deo sibi concessam reliquerit non Constantinopoli sed Romae Illud tamen dico multos Principes maximè verò Constantinum comparandae Synodi ac dissoluendae confutandi vel confirmandi ea quae in Synodis decreta erant Romanae sedi tantummodo concessisse Meritò igitur sedes Romana caeteris antefertur cuius integritate constantia cunctae haereses confutatae sunt explosae Boniface the third obteined of Phocas the Emperour although not without great difficultie that the See of the blessed Apostle Peter whiche is the Head of al Churches should both so be called and also taken of al men the which place or preferment the Churche of Constantinople went about to chalenge wicked princes sometimes helping foreward the matter affirming that the chiefe See ought to be in that place where the Head of the Empire was The bishops of Rome auouched that the citie of Rome was for good cause to be taken for the Head of the Empire as from whence the citie of Constantinople had benne translated Whereas also the Grecians them selues cal their Prince the Emperour of the Romains and they of Constantinople euen in our daies are called Romaines and not Grecians I let passe how Peter the prince of the Apostles gaue vnto his Successours the Bishops of Rome the Keies of the Kingdom of Heauen and leafte the power that was geuen him of God not to Constantinople but to Rome Onely this I saie that many Princes but specially Constātine graunted to the See of Rome only power and authoritie to gather and dissolue Councels to reiecte and allow those things that were decreed in Synodes Therefore the See of Rome is worthily preferred before the rest as by whose integritie and constancie al Heresies haue ben confuted and quite put awaie This was the Platina M. Iewel whom you alleged and durst not let him to tel out his tale But he saith not that the Popes laboured to be called Vniuersal Bishops but onely to staie the Grecians from a false and erroneous opinion and to kepe them in the vnitie of the Romaine Churche from whence that vsurped name did by litle and litle withdraw them Thus haue we seene two errours of yours the one Three errours of M. Ievv touching this point of vniuersal Bishop whereas you reproue me for saying that the name of Vniuersal taken in a right sense is no prowd name in respect of the Bishop of Rome the other bicause you impute to the Bishops of Rome that they laboured for that ambitious name The third errour foloweth Pag. 118. which is worse then the other two For you saie these be the wordes of the Coūcel of Carthage as Gratian allegeth them Dist 99. Prima Vniuersalis Episcopus nec ipse Romanus Pontifex appelletur The Bishop of Rome him selfe may not be called the vniuersal Bishop And this thing you prosecute Pag. 121. 122. and repeate againe and againe But you belie the Councel and Gratian and the Glose too al at once And yet you are so highly auaunced in your owne conceite that ye seeme to make a glorious triumphe for it Thus you saie Iewel Pag. 121. Novv M. Harding compare our vvordes and the Councelles vvordes together VVe saie none othervvise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome himselfe ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Herein vve do neither adde nor minish but reporte the vvordes plainely as vve finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and vvould haue tried this mater as you saie by your learning ye might vvel haue reserued these vnciuil reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpon this defender Harding I neuer cried so ofte shame vpon the Defender as he deserued and that he is a shamelesse man it shal now be here as cleerly tried as euer it was before I laie three maine Lies to your charge in this mater Three main lyes laid to M. Ievvels charge Pag. 118. Pag. 121. Let the worlde vnderstande how wel ye are hable to discharge them One for that you say the Coūcel of Carthage forbiddeth the Pope to be called Vniuersal Bishop An other for that you saie that Gratian saith so The third for that you saie that so muche is noted in the Glose First the Councel of Carthage is extant bothe in Greke and in Latin but those wordes be founde in neither of bothe Copies In Greeke the Decree is thus vttered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In whiche wordes there is no mention made of the Vniuersal Bishop Now the Latin wordes are these in the first booke of the Councels Carthag Conc. 3. c. 26. Vt primae sedis Episcopus non appelletur Princeps Sacerdotum aut summus Sacerdos aut aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae sedis Episcopus It is by vs decreed that the Bishop of a first See be not called the Prince of Priestes or the highest Priest M. Iev falsifieth the Coūcel of Carthage In Nomocanon or any the like but onely the Bishop of a first See Where also no mention is made of the Vniuersal Bishop Balsamon also making a Comment vpon the same Canon yet speaketh no worde of the Vniuersal Bishop We see then plainely that M. Iewel hath falsified the said Canon by
whiche beare the name of Christians And to the Apostles Christe said Matt. 28. I am with you al daies vntil the worldes ende If he be with them til the ende they likewise are in the worlde til the worldes ende But they liued not so long in this worlde therefore it is meant that from age to age and from man to man Christe will haue alwayes some to sitte in the Chaieres and Seates of his Apostles by ordinarie Succession vntil the worldes ende Of this Succession Dauid in the person of Christ spake in spirite saying to the Church For thy Fathers Psal 44. Sonnes are borne vnto thee Thou shalt ordeine them the Chiefe Gouernours ouer al the earth The Church answereth I shal be mindeful o Lorde of thy name in euery Generation and Generation therefore the peoples shal geue praise and thankes to thee for euer and from age to age .. So that the cause why the Churche continueth are the Gouernours by God appointed vnto it and as the Churche continueth from age to age so do they gouerne from age to age For the Visible Flocke of shepe can not long lacke their Visible shepeheard at any time but that the Wolues wil enter in and disperse them a sunder Iewel VVhen Christ beganne to refourme their abuses and errours they said to him Luc. 20. Mark 11. Beda in Lucam li. 5. cap. 80. by vvhat povver doest thou these thinges and vvho gaue the this authoritie vvhere is thy Succession Vpon vvhiche vvordes Beda saith They vvould haue the people vnderstand for that he had no solenne Succession that al that he did vvas of the Deuil Harding See vvhat cōueiāce M. Ievv vseth to helpe his cause Scarse one line hath passed your handes into the whiche you haue nor conueied of your owne head the worde Succession Whereas neither S. Luke nor S Mathew nor S. Marke nor S. Paule nor S. Hierome nor the Pharisees nor Bede whom you allege vsed that worde at al. But to make your tale sound against Succession M. Ievv falsifieth al his testimonies you driue al to that point and thereby you falsifie euery place that you bring as euery man shal finde who doth conferre the matter with the Originals and so al your Defence standeth vpon fialsified Authorities But our cause God be praised for it is so strong Christes true Succession that we neede not to care though al that were true whiche you allege For albeit the Pharisees would not harken to Christes Succession yet in deede he Succeded lineally to al the Kinges and Patriarkes and thereby to the Priestes also of the best Order to wit of the Lawe of nature and not of the Law of Moyses whiche was an inferiour Lawe in respecte of that of Nature Christ therefore had not onely a most perfite Succession which is described in the Gospel from Adam til Ioseph the husbande of the Virgin Marie but also with that his Succession he stopped al the mouthes of his Enemies For thus he said to them VVhat thinke you of Christe that is of your Messias whom you looke for Matt. 22. VVhose Sonne is he They say to him the Sonne of Dauid Christ saith to them Psal 109. How then doth Dauid cal him Lorde in spirite saying The Lord hath said to my Lord sit at my right hand vntil I put thy enemies as a foote stoole vnder thy feete If then Dauid cal him Lorde how is he his Sonne And no man was hable to answer him a worde Neither durst any manne after that daye aske him any moe questions Here it is first to be noted that the Scribes and Pharisees knew Christ to haue a Succession from Dauid For his Sonne they said he must be Therefore M. Iewel in making the Pharisees to acknowledge no Succession of his hath corrupted the texte of the Gospel and vttered a great Vntruthe The Pharisees knew that Christe should succede in the very beste line but they would not attende nor consider how that Succession was now brought to passe in the Sonne of Marie who being of the howse of Dauid had miraculously brought forth Christe the perfite ende of the Lawe So likewise M. Iewel knoweth that the Churche of Christe must needes haue a perpetual Succession but he wil not consider how it is preserued chiefely in the Chaier of Peter Ioan. 21. to whom aboue al others the sheepe of Christ were committed Wel Christe then geuing the Iewes to vnderstand that he succeeded in the line of Dauid Christ not only the Sonne of Dauid but also the Sône of God would haue had them farther to consider that he also was the sonne of God and so shewed that he who was Dauids Sonne was also called the Lord of Dauid his Sonne by flesh his Lord by Godhed which thing did put them al to silence Euen so that weake mortal and some time miserable and sinful man whome sitting at Rome M. Iewel despiseth when he heareth him to be according to the gifte of God the Vicare of Christes loue as S. Ambrose calleth him in feeding his shepe Ambr. in cōmment in Luc. c. 24. and the Successour of the chiefe Apostle he is surely astoined at it and would be put to silence if he were not worse then a Pharisee For admitting that the Pope were not S. Peters Successour but onely one of the lowest Bishoppes of Christes Churche yet who would not woonder to see him keepe his Succession so notably fiften hundred yeres together wheras al the Patriarkes and thousandes of Bishops besides are so mangled and so brought to nought But now if wee adde hereunto that the same is euen by our enemies confession and euer was the first See how muche more ought they to woonder at the special prouidence of God in that behalfe Therefore euen as it was miraculous that the line of Dauid was so notably preserued in so many changes and captiuities of the Iewes right so may we say of the Bishoppes of Rome in suche sorte as smaller thinges doo imitate the greater and may in their manner be compared to the greater Iewel Cyrillus frameth the Pharisees vvordes in this sorte Cyrillus in Cathen in Luc. 20. Thou Being of the tribe of Iuda and therefore hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthood takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Harding Here againe you adde these wordes hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthode of your owne head M. Ievv falsifieth Cyrillus by adding vvordes of his ovvne Howbeit euen there Cyrillus sheweth that Christe had right by Succession which you should not haue conceeled had you dealt truly For there it foloweth Sed si nouisses ô Pharisee scripturas recoleres quòd hic est Sacerdos qui secundùm ordinem Melchisedech offert Deo in se credentes per cultum qui legem transcendit O thou Pharisee Christe had right also by successiō if thou haddest knowen the Scriptures thou wouldest remember that this
example caÌ„not be fitly applied to M. Ievels purpose S. Augu. speaketh of doctrine M. Ievv of a particular facte bicause no Bishop of Rome taught that doctrine which they taught And you turne al the mater of doctrine to a manner of doing It were surely hard to proue that euer any one Pope not only of those 38. whom S. Augustine nameth but also of al the rest til this hower did say priuate Masse For if M. Iewel should put me to the proufe that Paulus tertius or Pius quartus Federicus Fregosius that noble and learned Bishop of Salerno or Bellaius that worthy Bishop of Paris or any the like who liued in our time had said Priuate Masse and that in such wise as if I were not hable to shew him when they said it where they said it and who were witnesses thereof I should not be credited for want of due proufe I were not hable to proue it either for that I liued not at Rome and in the places where they made their abode or elles bicause though I liued in those places I was not so curious nor careful to know what they did therin And so it would followe by this fond collection of M. Iewels Logique that euen yet to this daie no Pope nor other Bishop faith priuate Masse bicause I can not proue it and shew the circumstance where when and how it was donne Thinke you M. Iewel that the Religion of Christe dependeth vpon any particular facte of menne Is that your Diuinitie Al the Popes and al the Apostles agree with vs in Doctrine bicause wee can shewe diuerse Churches whiche haue benne planted of them and haue kepte from time to time the Religion whiche they receiued from hande to hande of them This is our demonstration of the Truthe This is that whiche Christe allowed when he commaunded his disciples to doo and keepe that which the Scribes and Pharisees who sate in Moyses chaire bad them to keepe and doo Euen so doo we M. Iewel we say priuate Masse so ye wil needes cal it bicause the Popes and other bishops who sit in Peters and in the other Apostles chaire doo tel vs that it is lawful to say priuate Masse And we doubte not also but that it hath benne vsed for euer to be said though the people either were not present or being present would not receiue with the priest as it is plaine in S. Chrysostome Chrysost homil 61. ad Pop. AntiocheÌ„ who stode at the Altare and did that which belonged to priestly duetie that is to say he said Masse and looked for some communicantes to come to receiue the communion but he stode in vaine for any that would come to him Yet did he stil come to the altare when so either the feaste or his deuotion required Iewel Pag. 129. But vvherefore telleth vs M. Harding this long tale of Succession Harding Bicause it is a special marke of the true Churche as a Lib. 3. cap. 3. Ireneus b De Praescript Tertullian c Lib. 2. contra Parmen Optatus and S. d Ep. 165. Augustine doo teach and your Church hath no Succession that is thirty yeres olde nor any Bishop at al lawfully planted But ours hath a Succession of a thowsand fiue hundred threescore and eight yeres with a great number of Bishops in al countries and times Ievvel Haue these men their ovvne Succession in so safe recorde VVho vvas then the bishop of Rome next by succession vnto Peter VVho vvas the second vvho the third vvho the fourth Irenaeus reckeneth them together in this order Petrus Linus Anacletus Clemens Epiphanius thus Petrus Linus Cletus Clemens Optatus thus Petrus Linus Clemens Anacletus Clemens saith that he him selfe vvas next vnto Peter and then must the reckening go thus Petrus Clemens Linus Anacletus Hereby it is cleare that of the first foure bishops of Rome M. Harding can not certainely tel vs vvho in order succeded other And thus talking so much of Succession they are not vvel hable to blase their ovvne Succession Harding Here is a deepe consideration I promise you What if al writers being sure of these foure Bishops of Rome yet be not sure who was before other Is therefore our Succession vncertaine We are wel assured that Peter was the first and after him there was a Second a Third and a Fourth We are also assured that the same were Linus Cletus Clemens Anacletus And what skilleth it vnto vs The true order of the first Popes succeding one another Damasus in pontificalt Clemens epist. 1. TertulliaÌ„ De praescr who was Second who Third who Fourth But now al this busines is ended if we make a distinction And that is this S. Peter being yet aliue made two Suffraganes Linus and Cletus who might doo the outward busines of his office whiles him selfe did attende to praier and preaching So saith Damasus in the life of S. Peter Againe when S. Peter saw his death to be at hand he chose Clement to be his successour as we reade in S. Clementes epistle and in Damasus Yea Tertullian also confesseth that the Church of Rome sheweth Clement to haue benne ordeined of Peter Thus were there three Bishops in Rome but not three Bishops of Rome when S. Peter died of the whiche S. Clement had most right to succede But he hauing seene before the good experience of Linus and Cletus did yelde the administration to them one after the other first to Linus and then to Cletus after whose death Clement him selfe gouerned the Apostolike See And after him came Anacletus whom some Greeke Writers tooke to be one with Cletus Thus are al matters reconciled DiscussioÌ„ of al doubte touching thorder of the first Popes in Rome Ruffin in Praefat. ad lib. Recognit And that not by me onely but by Ruffinus eleuen hundred yeres past who also receiued it of his Forefathers He saith Quidam requirunt quomodo cùm Linus Cletus in vrbe Roma ante Clementem hunc fuerint episcopi ipse Clemens ad Iacobam scribens sibi dicat a Petro docendi Cathedram traditâ—m â—cuius rei hanc accepimus esse rationem Quòd Linus Cletus fuerunt quidem ante Clementem episcopi in vrbe Roma sed superstite Petro vt illi episcopatus curam gererent ipse vero Apostolatus impleret officium Sicut inuenitur etiam apud Caesaream fuisse vbi cùm ipse esset presens Zachaeum tamen à se ordinatum habebat Episcopum Et hoc modo vtrumque verum videbitur vt illi ante Clementem numerentur Episcopi Clemens tamen post obitum Petri docendi susceperit sedem Some aske this question howe Clement him selfe writing to Iames saith that Peter leafte to him the Chaire of teaching whereas Linus and Cletus were Bishops in the Citie of Rome before this Clement Of whiche thing we haue learned this to be the reason That Linus and Cletus were bishops in the Citie of Rome but in the life
De potestate Apostolic one of your ovvne Doctours vvould haue told you thus In the Churche one Bisshop is sufficient to consecrate another And it is nothing els but for the solemnitie of the matter that the Church hath deuised that three Bisshops should ioyne togeather Harding Surely you tooke great paines to finde out sumwhat for your excuse when you forsooke the example of the Apostles and of the auncient Councelles and went from S. Peter the Apostle to Peter de Palude for your Defence And yet he saith nothing that maketh against vs. For he saith not that any Catholike Bisshop was euer consecrated of lesse then three but that one sufficeth to consecrate a Bishop I meant that in al solemne consecrations it hath ben so and Petrus de Palude denieth it not but he saith one sufficeth and meaneth that in a case of extremitie one bishop alone may consecrate an other and the same I denie not But consider for what purpose I spake it My talke was directed to you M. Iewel and your fellowes who after fifteen hundred yeres in a realme that hath not lacked Christian pastours and bishops in it for the space of these thirteen hundred yeres togeather ought not now to pretend any necessitie as though three Bishops either in that countrie or in the next could not be founde who might solemnize your Ordering and Consecration Iewel Pag. 130. Likevvise Iohannes Maior an other of your ovvne Doctours vvould haue said vnto you Quis ordinauit Petrum c. VVho ordered Peter In 4. sentent dist 24. q. 3. and made him a bishop They can not shewe me three Bisshops that ordered him Therefore I say that a bisshop be ordered of other three Bisshops it is an ordināce made by man For Paule when he ordered Titus and Timotheus he sought not about for other two Bisshops Harding See now againe how farre this man is gonne from the Doctours of the first six hundred yeres If you wil stand to their iudgement M. Iewel whom you allege M. Ievvel allegeth the Schoolemenne vvho are vvel knovven to be altogether contrarie to him they cōdemne you for an Heretike and a Schismatike bicause you haue forsaken that Doctrine of faith and that holy fellowship wherein they liued and died They offered the external sacrifice of the Churche and taught it to be offered for the liue and dead in Christe who died for both and least vs his owne body in a Sacrament to be made and consecrate by the priestes of the new testament for the application of Christes merites to euery particular faithful man and for the whole body of the Churche Seing you say this is Idolatrie why seeke you for helpe at their handes who haue taught vs this doctrine for which you tel vs they be in hel Againe admit it be an ordinance of man that a bishop should be consecrate of three other bishops Is it therefore in your power to breake euery ordinance of man It was the ordinance of men that ye should paye this or that tribute vnto your prince May ye therefore cease to paie it at your pleasure That which man ordeined By what man may the ordinance of man be changed may in deede be altered by an other man but he must then be of the same power that he was of who ordeined it The Apostles ordeined that a Bishop be consecrate of three An Apostle therefore is not bound to that ordinance But are you and your brethren Apostles that ye take vpon you to alter the Apostolike ordinances If ye were but the scholars of the Apostles ye would keepe their Successions and follow their steppes But now whereas they kepte Christian men in one bonde of peace yee skatter the flocke into so many sectes as there are proude and vaineglorious men emong you Iewel 130. VVhereas it farther pleaseth you to cal for my letters of Orders and to demaunde of me as by some authoritie vvhether I be a Priest or no vvhat handes vvere laid ouer me and by vvhat order I vvas made I ansvver you I am a Priest made long sithens by the same Order and ordinance and I thinke also by the same man and the same handes that you M. Harding vvere made Priest by in the late time of that most vertuous prince King Edvvard the sixth Therefore you can not vvel doubt of my Priesthoode vvithout like doubting of your ovvne Harding Neither by the same Ordinance M. Iewel nor by the same man nor by the same handes nor in the time of the same late King How be it you tel not halfe my tale I laid for my foundation out of S. Hierome these wordes Dialog contra Luciferianos Ecclesia non est quando non habet Sacerdotem Church is there none which hath not a Priest or Bishop and such a Priest he there describeth as may consecrate the Sacrament of the Aulter that is to say that may offer External Sacrifice and such a Bishop he describeth who may order priestes For Sacerdos as you know doth signifie bothe a Priest and Bishoppe Sacerdos Bishop or Priest Nowe S. Hierome there disputed against Hilarius a Deacon whom being alone in his newe secte and not hable to offer Sacrifice nor to make Priestes it behoued needes to leaue that his congregation without a Priest I aske you then as wel of your bishopply vocation and of your Sending as of your Priesthoode Geue me leaue I praie you here to put you in minde of my wordes once againe Thus I said Confut. fol. 57. b. Hard questions proponed to M. Ievvel and yet you haue not answered me Therefore to goe from your Succession which ye can not proue and to come to your Vocation how say you Sir You beare your selfe as though you were a Bishop of Sarisburie But how can you prooue your Vocation By what authoritie vsurpe you the administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes What can you allege for the right and proufe of your Ministerie Who hath called you Who hath laid handes on you By what example hath he donne it How and by whom are you consecrated Who hath sent you Who hath committed to you the office you take vppon you Be you a Prieste or be you not If you be not howe dare you vsurpe the name and office of a Bisshoppe If you be tel vs who gaue you Orders The institution of a Prieste was neuer yet but in the power of a Bisshoppe Bisshoppes haue alwaies after the Apostles tyme according to the Ecclesiastical Canons benne consecrated by three other Bisshops with the consent of the Metropolitane Cut of by M. Ievvel and Confirmation of the B. of Rome * Thus vnitie hath hitherto benne kepte thus schismes haue benne staied And this S. Cyprian calleth Legitimam Ordinationem Cyprian lib. 1. epistol 6. Lawful Ordering For lacke of whiche he denied Nouatus to be a Bishop or to haue any auctoritie or power in the Churche Hereto neither you nor your fellowes
Succession aboue thirtie martyrs who died for Christes sake and as many confessours or moe whom al the good men in the Church haue accompted for holy and blessed men There was neuer general Coūcel holden by catholique Bishops which did not cōmunicate with that See and reioysed to be honoured and cōfirmed by it From S. Peters time to our age you cannot name any one daie or howre marcke wel M. Iewel you can not name one daie or howre I say in which any knowen Catholike Bishop in al the world did or might euer say with the approbation of good men I defie or I despise or I do not communicate with the Church of Rome how soeuer some one Pope might seeme not cōmendable yet the Church the faith the Doctrine the Succession was euer commended of al Catholike men To that See appealed and resorted as to the chiefe Light of the Church a Li. 3. c. 3. Irenaeus b De Praes Tertullian c Lib. 2. Optatus d Ad Siriciū ep 81 S. Ambrose e Ad. Damasum S. Hierome f Epi. 165. S. Augustine g De vocat gent. li. 2. c. 16. Prosper with al the fathers besides That See promoted the Gospel into the endes of the world into England Scotlād Ireland Denmarcke the low Countrie Germanie Polonia Lituania Prussia Liuonia Hungaria Bohemia Bulgaria and presently into the new founde Landes That See conquered al heresies cōfounded them and al their authours and mainteiners from Simon Magus to Martine Luther and Ihon Caluin who now beginneth to be brought very lowe and by Gods wil shal be brought lower shortely the follie and rebellious sprite which his Doctrine breedeth in his adherentes breaking out and shewing it selfe daily to the world more and more See M. Iewel you and your fellowes are as sore a fraid as euer was the gilty theefe of his iudge or the naughty boye of his maister But do I say trow you that ye therfore haue no Succession or that yee are no Bishops and haue no Church bicause in your Churches of England there are not to be founde so many Idolatours so many Necromācers so many Heretiques Aduouteres Churcherobbers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as many easily be founde in the Church of Rome Nay I trow M. Iewel you take your marke amisse For if I thought so as it pleaseth you to thinke of me I would not haue denied you neither Succession such as it is nor Bishops nor Churches or rather Congregations nor Ministers nor Minstrels neither for the better furnishing of them withal if these so many worthy qualities could worke so great an effecte For that I speake not here of Heretikes The clergie of these nevv cōgregatiōs vvherby Successiō is claimed and so cōsequently of Idolatours which faulte is common to you al what aduouterers whoremasters Incestuous persons Churche robbers Church breakers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Abiured men Friers Apostates Lecherous Munkes Tapsters Hostlers Pedlers Tinckers Coblers Summoners Viceplayers Deuil Players Fellons Horse stealers Newgate menne briefly what vile and rascal rable want ye to fournish vp your Succession your bishoprikes your Synagogues and Ministring roumes withal Verely if this geare could make a Succession it shal soone be made good that ye haue also a Succession such as it is And ye neede not to mistrust any whit at al hauing so many of euery sorte as shal be more then inough for you Marie put these away out of your congregations I would cal them Churches were not that name to good for you I feare me you would leaue but a poore seely clergie behinde See hovv M. Ievvel vvil proue his so many Idolatours c. In the Church of Rome But how easy is it trow you M. Iewel to find so many Idolatours in the Churche of Rome as you beare vs in hande there may be founde Doth one poore facte of S. Marcellinus alone for the whiche he repented foorthwith and dyed a glorious Martyr of God make vp with you so many Idolatours I am wel assured that if you could haue found but one Pope more that had done the like you would not haue spared him your modestie is such but he should haue ben scored vp also to make vp your number of so many Idolatours Be it that Syluester was a Necromancer So many Necromācers and Hildebrand too who was of that crime as of many other vntruly sclaundered by his enemies that could not abide to heare of any correction for their enormous faultes and therefore spited that good Pope as you doo al the Popes wil yet those two make such a number of Necromancers in that See that it were a very easy matter to finde so many as you would gladly make your Readers beleeue there were Be it that Liberius Leo Coelestinus Honorius So many heretikes and Ihon the 22. holding priuate opinions without open maintenance of them had ben Heretikes as you most sclaunderously reporte them out of baudye Bale and braine-sicke Illyricus yet these fiue make not so great a number pardy that it should be an easy thing for you to finde so many Heretikes in the See of Rome as ful rhetorically you set the matter forth Now with what face pretende you vnto the worlde that it is an easy matter to finde so many Heretiques emong the Bishops of Rome whereas with long prying and pooring in al your brethrens bookes you could finde but fiue to whom you durst to impute that crime of whiche yet three are vniustly sclaundered and the other two only misliked for their priuate assertions and neuer denounced Heretikes for stubborne maintenance or making any open Decree touching that whereof once they erroneously iudged But yet you wil saie that among the Bishops of Rome there were many Aduouterers So many aduouterers c many Church Robbers many Periured persons many Mankillers many Renegates It is happy M. Iewel that your worde is no sclaunder But I pray you good sir how many can you truly name of al these For of so great a number as you speak of it is wel likely you can name some and your malice is such against the Popes that you wil spare none howe smal a surmise soeuer you haue inducing you to thinke so euil of any Pope Go to then M. Iewel of your so many name vs some one infamous in eche of these great crimes which indifferently you laye to the charge of the Bishops of Rome leauing an euil suspicion in your Readers head that for the most parte al the Bishoppes of Rome were giltie of the one or the other How many Aduoutrers then can you name to vs Pope Hildebrand saye you was an Aduouterer that is a starke sclaunderous lie But were it true how many mo can you name let vs heare them Is there no mo but Pope Hildebrand Is one now become many with you and many but one So many Churche robbers Perchaunce yet of your Churche
that there is no succession in doctrine Now I saie ronne ouer al the Bisshops of Rome and you can saie of neuer a one this man coÌ„ming into his Predecessours See did oppugne his doctrine or preached with the Churche of Romes contentation against that which was in vse before So that in Rome al thinges are euen at this day concerning faith as S. Peter leafte them For euery man hath agreed in outward Decree senteÌ„ce and profession with al the predecessours and successours Iewel Pag. 132. S. Bernard saith Quid prodest si canonicè eligantur In concil Remen non canonicè viuant VVhat auaileth it if they be chosen in order and liue out of order Harding It auaileth nothing to the euil liuer but yet it auaileth muche to him that obeieth the good and true doctrine of the euil teacher Iewel So saith S. Augustine Ipsum characterem multi lupi Cont. Donatist lib. 6. 1. q. 3. vocantur caâ—es Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacraments lupis imprimunt The outvvarde marke or right of a bisshop many geue to vvolues and be vvolues them selues Harding By Character is not meant an outward marke but rather an inwarde marke and print which through the receiuing of certaine Sacramentes is imprinted in the soules of them who receiue them of whiche sorte are Baptisme Confirmation and holy Orders And those sacramentes being once receiued caÌ„ not be repeated or be againe receiued of the same person For the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud although it be an outward signe yet it leaueth not any Character or suche inward print in the soule as may be no more repeated But letting that errour passe of the true interpretation of this worde Character I graunt that Heretikes may baptize heretikes euen without the Churche and the Baptisme shal stand although it be vnlawfully ministred What maketh that against the Suceession of Bishops It rather proueth that seing the Sacramentes may be ministred if not to saluation of them that are of discretion yet truly and really without the true Churche there must be an other rule taken to know the true Church by besides the administration of Sacramentes And that true and certaine rule is the perpetual Succession of the See Apostolike Iewel Pag. 132. Therefore the auncient father Irenaus geueth vs this good counsel Eis qui sunt in Ecclesia presbyteris obedire oportet Iren. lib. 4. ca. 43. qui successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secundùm beneplacitum patris acceperunt It becommeth vs to obey those Priestes in the Churche vvhich haue their succession from the Apostles and together vvith the Succession of their bishoprikes according to the good vvil of God the Father haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truthe Harding Al this maketh against you M. Iewel For seing you can shew no such Priestes hauing their Succession from the Apostles and hauing receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth whom ye doo obeye it is certaine that ye haue not the gifte of the truthe among you On the other side seing we haue Priestes that is to say Bishoppes of Rome who are also Priestes which haue their SuccessioÌ„ from the chiefe and most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule and seing such Priestes and Bishops keeping stil the same faith and doctrine from man to man haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth according to the good wil of God the Father doubtelesse the vndoubted marke of the truth is with vs only and not with you at al who haue no Succession at al of any Priestes and much lesse of any suche Priestes that succede lineally from the Apostles them selues Iewel 132. S. Cyprian being likevvise charged for dissenting from his predecessours Lib. 2. epist 3. ansvvereth thus Si quis de antecessoribus meis c. If any of my predecessours haue not obserued and kepte the same that our Lorde hath taught vs both by his example and also by his coÌ„maundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doo the like can hope for no pardon being nowe admonished and instructed of our Lorde Harding Cough vp man it wil choke you Phy. vvhat a fowle corruption is this Lib. 2. epist 3. if you let it tarry within your throte Here is but halfe the bone there is yet in S. Cyprian no ful point it foloweth in the same sentence Vt calicem Dominicum vino mixtum secundùm quod Dominus obtulit offeramus We can hope for no pardon who are now admonished and instructed of our Lorde that we should offer our Lordes chalice mixed with wine accordingly as our Lorde offered the same Either M. Iewel tooke this saying of S. Cyprian vpon the Germaine credite as he found it noted in their bookes and then his false brethren deceiued him or els he wrote it out of S. Cyprian himselfe and then his studie and wil was to deceiue vs. He would ful gladly haue geuen vs an authoritie that we might forsake the example of our Predecessours but he was loth we should see the thing wherewith the authoritie was exemplified For if at any time he say al he is sure to speake against him selfe and no wonder because he speaketh against the truth and euerie good saying euermore agreeth with the trtuh First he corrupteth S. Cyprian in putting in meis for nostra my predecessours in stede of our predecessours For S. Cyprian speaketh not of his owne Succession but of what soeuer Priest or Bishoppe that liued before his time Againe S. Cyprian spake not of any such custome as had ben generally vsed of al Bishops for then it had ben of ful authoritie but of that which some one man vsed priuatly and without keeping the lawe of Succession And therefore S. Cyprian said Si quis if any man Thirdly the thing he spake of was that some were said to offer water alone in our Lordes supper and not wine withal Now saith he if any before our time haue vsed to offer water and not wine mingled with water wel he may be pardoned by our Lordes mercie but we that are admonished and instructed to offer our Lordes chalice mingled with wine that is to say consisting not of water alone but of water and wine mingled together we caÌ„ not be pardoned except we mingle water with wine and so do offer our Lordes Chalice as he him selfe did offer it Nowe applie this geare Christian Reader to our new brethrens deedes Do they offer our Lordes Chalice at al Or do they graunt that our Lord in his Supper offered it Do they mingle water with wine at the time of consecrating the mysteries If they do neither of both what folie yea what madnesse was it for M. Iewel to bring foorth these wordes of S. Cyprian thereby to accuse him selfe and his owne Communion as not obseruing that whiche our Lorde commaunded to be obâ—â—rued It is a worlde to see how these men applye the witnesses of
matter lieth open to many accusations And therefore he would a Bishop to geue no occasion of euil to those that be vnder him * Thus Chrysostome Where with S. Paule first he putteth to silence the Cerdonistes Marcionistes Seuerians Tatians Manichees and al other Heretikes that condemned marriage and said it was an impure thing Secondly he alloweth matrimonie fo farre that he acknowledgeth a maried man may ascend to a Bishops seate Thirdly * Leaft out by M. Iev Bigâ—mie lauful rather then coÌ„mendable leafte out by M. Iev The Bigamie of the gospellers condeÌ„ned by Chrysostom and Paule-StroÌ„pets he putteth Bigamie that it to witte marying an other after the first or a widowe to be lawful rather then commendable * Nowe as wee doo not condemne marriage neither denie but that married menne in the Primitiue Churche and before the Ghospel was so generally receiued as it was at length were and might be called to the dignitie of Bishoprike when scarcetie and lacke of single menne worthy of that rome was founde * so we see the impure Bigamie of our holy gospellers condemned both by S. Chrysostom and S. Paule of whom many being Priestes and as they saye Bishops at lest presuming to occupie that holy seate for custodie of their chastitie after their former olde yokefellowes decease solace them selues with newe strompettes By a better name I would cal them if I wist I should not offend For what woman soeuer coupleth her selfe in such damnable yoking how can she appeare either to be honest or to haue care of her soule health As for the simple that be deceiued by the importunitie and craft of those lurdens as they are not to be borne withal so yet I thinke them to be pitied But if this Defender presse vs with Chrysostome we answer that though Chrysostom graunte that a married man may ascende to the holy seate yet he sayeth not that a man may descend from that holy seate to the Bride bedde For we denie vtterly After holy orders receiued mariage neuer coÌ„pted lauful amoÌ„g catholikes that any man after that he hath receiued holy orders maie marye Neither can it be shewed that the mariage of suche was euer accompted lawful in the catholike Church In deed we know that in Germanie and in EnglaÌ„d and certain other prouinces at dissolute times when the discipline of the Church was shaken of Priestes haue ben maried as we reade of the time in whiche Anselmus was Bishop of Cantorbury Priestes maryed in EnglaÌ„d in the time of Anselmus But that disorder was alwayes by due correction of bishops punished and redressed So that what soeuer Bale Poinet or any other of that filthy railing rable bring out of Huldrike of Auspurg Huntingdonensis Capgraue Chronica Chronicarum or such other obscure and barbarous stories for witnes of priestes marriages seing the same were by good rulers of the Churche at al times controlled and resisted as vnlauful and wicked it is of no force nor auctoritie How why and when maried men were admitted to be priestes and wher the profession of chastitie and absteining from companie of their wiues was required of them and many other poinctes touching the vnlawful mariages of priestes who so euer is desirous to be amply instructed the same I referre to a large treatise written hereof by a lerned man in our owne tonge I thinke not good here to recite the thinges that be so wel treated already Iewel Pag. 164. Here I graunte M. Harding is like to finde some good aduauntage as hauing vndoubtedly a great Number of the holy Fathers of his side c. That Priestes and Votaries maie not marrie The first Chapter Harding The Fathers be on our side by M. Iewels ovvne confessioÌ„ THEN vndoubtedly you haue not the holy Scriptures on your side For the holy Fathers haue neuer in great number determined or weighed against the Scriptures For the same Christ that gaue vs the holy Scriptures gaue vs also Pastours and Doctours as S. Paule teacheth to make perfite the Saintes that is the Christians by their ministerial working and to build vp the body of Christe whiche is his Churche Seing then M. Iewel confesseth that for this point we haue a great number of the Fathers on our side let him make his Moustre of Glosers Summistes al the Canonistes Schoolemen and of his other late petie Doctours whom when they serue vs he calleth the Blacke Garde neuer so great we wil content our selues with the great number of Ancient Fathers And if the Fathers be on our side what remaineth but that the Reader make his choise to whiche side to incline to the olde Fathers of the Auncient Churche of whose holinesse wee are wel assured or to these yong Fathers of this new Churche whose Children do geue vs better witnesse that they be fathers then doth their life that they be holy Wel how great number of holy Fathers so euer we haue on our side certaine it is that M. Iewel wil not yeelde Let it then be considered how he defendeth this point and what pith there is in al that number of the Doctours sayinges whiche he would seme to allege for his purpose As concerning the wordes of my confutation of the Apologie touching this point of the marriage of Priestes and Votaries bicause I knew these married Apostates doo charge vs as hauing an euil iudgement of Matrimonie directly answering the wordes of the Apologie first I commende Matrimonie Heb. 13. To marrie vnlauful in tvvo cases and approue the saying of S. Paule vttered in the Epistle to the Hebrewes in praise of it Neuerthelesse I say that to marrie it is vnlawful in two cases The one is if any person haue vowed continencie the other if any man haue taken holy Orders The first I proue by Scripture and the Fathers the second by the Ordinance of the Churche and also by testimonie of the Fathers Then I answer to the place alleged out of S. Chrysostom who saith that a married man may be promoted vnto the dignitie of a Bishop In discoursing whereupon I shew that the Bigamie of the married Apostates of our time is by sentence of S. Chrysostome vtterly condemned After this graunting that in the olde Church married men vpon good causes were made Bishops I denie that Bishoppes were euer made married men after they were Bishops The foure thinges that in this matter M. Ievvel hath to defende These then be the thinges that here M. Iewel hath to defende First that is is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie Secondly that it is lawful after the taking of holy Orders Thirdly that Bigamie or second marriage is lawful in Priestes Monckes Friers and Nonnes Fourthly that in olde time Bishoppes were married after they had once ben consecrate Bishops These foure if he doo not defende he perfourmeth nothing touching this point but sheweth him selfe to al menne ouercomme though his Doctours allegations besides the purpose be neuer so many VVhat
say expressely that these three Degrees Bishops Priestes and Deacons are annexed and tyed vnto chastitie S. Leo that learned Bishop of Rome writing to Rusticus the Bishop of Narbon in Fraunce saith Lex continentiae eadem est Altaris ministris quae episcopis atque presbyteris Qui cùm essent laici siue lectores licitè vxores ducere filios procreare potuerunt Sed cùm ad praedictos peruenerunt gradus coepit eis non licere quod licuit The ministers of the Aulter that is to say Deacons and Subdeacons be bounde to the same lawe of continencie as Bishops and Priestes be When they were Laiemen or Readers it was lawful for them both to marrie wiues and to begete children But after they came to the foresaid degrees what before was to them lawful began now to be vnlawful Distin 31. Quoniam Whereas the Fathers of the sixth General Councel holden in Constantinople do agnise and confesse as Gratian reherseth out of Iuo Carnotensis that it is cōmaunded by the Romaine Canon that they who tooke the holy order of Deaconship or Priesthod should professe and promise to cōpanie no more with their owne wiues which they had maried before they came to take orders ▪ thereof it is vndoubtedly concluded that if any came single to those holy orders they were as they might be with more right required afterward neuer to marrie Chastitie promised at the raking of holy Orders also in the aūcient Greke Church Concil Neocaesar Cap. 1. Neither was it the custome of the Latine Church only that who so euer tooke holy orders should promise chastitie but also of the Greeke Churche and that before the first Councel of Nice The Fathers of the auncient Councel of Neocaesaria now called Trapezus Trapezonda in vulgare language whereat S. Basile and S. Gregorie Nazianzen were present decreed presbyterum si vxorem duxerit ab ordine suo deponi debere that a priest should be deposed from his order if he married a wife In the olde councel of Ancyra we finde this decreed concering Deacons Quicunque Diaconi tacuerunt Concil Ancyran cap. 10. susceperunt manus impositionem professi continentiam si postea ad nuptias venerini à ministerio cessare debebūt What Deacons so euer helde their peace when they tooke orders and receiued the laying on of the Bishops hande so hauing made their profession of continencie if afterwardes they come to marrie they ought to ceasse from the ministerie The Fathers of the councel of Gangra Concil Gangren in fine in the ende of their decrees concluded with these wordes Haec aūt scripsimus non qui in Ecclesia Dei secundū Scripturas sanctū propositū Continentiae eligunt vituperantes sed eos qui abutuntur proposito in superbiam extolluntur aduersus simpliciores abscindimus c. We haue written these thinges not reprouing them which in the Church of God according vnto the scriptures doo choose the holy Vow or purpose of continencie but we cutte of by excommunication those that abuse suche purpose to pride and becomme haulte and lofty against the simple The Coūcel of Laodicea speaking of Priestes Deacōs Concil Laodicēs cap. 24. and others that haue geuē them selues ouer to liue in the holy ministratiō saith nō oportere eos qui in proposito continētia sunt tabernas intrare that they who haue purposed to keepe Chastitie may not be haunters of Tauernes Origen Origen in Numer homil 23. whom I may wel allege for a witnesse of the Church of his time saith that none may offer the cōtinual Sacrifice but such only as haue vowed cōtinual Chastitie The auncient Fathers of the Churche who ordeined the vowe of Chastitie to be made by them that would be admitted to holy Orders were moued thereto partly by the holy Ghoste author of al purenesse partly by the deuotion of them selues that came to the holy ministerie partly also by the Tradition of the Apostles who touching chastitie of ministers made this Decree Exijs qui coelibes in Clerum peruenerunt iubemus vt lectores tantū cantores Canonum Apost can 25. si velint nuptias contrahant Of them that haue comme to the clergie single we commaunde that the Readers and singing men marrie if they wil and none elles Some of our married Priestes of England wil here perhappes saie vnto me Sir when I was made Priest I made no vowe Vovv of Chastitie made in facte though no vvordes be spoken nor promised at al to liue the single life For I said nothing to the bishop that laid handes vpon me and he required no such thing of me How am I then a Votarie And why may I not marrie To whom I answer you tooke this charge vpon you before you came to be made Priest when you tooke Subdeaconship For that is the first among the holy Orders Vnto which for so much as the vowe of Chastitie by common Tradition by special statute and ordinance of the Church is annexed in taking that Order you hounde your selfe ipso facto that is to say Promises other ād Grauntes made in deede vvithout vvorde in fact it selfe to that condition which thereto belongeth For Vowes Promises Othes Grauntes and such other the like may be made and professed by facte and dede though wordes of vowing promising swearing or graunting be not expressed Many a man that marrieth a wife doth not tel her before or at the time of marriage with expresse wordes that he wil loue her cherish her keepe defend and mainteine her render wedlocke duetie vnto her c Yet in that he marrieth her al these he is bounde to performe as being vnderstanded to be conteined in the condition of marriage and hath promised no lesse by taking her to wife And if being required of the wise to render these dueties vnto her he refuse and say nay wife thou shalt pardō me I neuer made thee promise to do this much for thee may not she say againe why husbād you haue married me and that is promise ynough The partie that taketh an Othe commonly saith nothing but by laying his hande vpon a booke and by kissing the booke or as the custome is in some countries by holding vp his two forefingers geueth his consent and protesteth to doo that is included in the condition of the othe Some time menne geue consent to a thing not by speaking ought at al but by going vnto a side which of the olde Romaines was termed pedibus ire in sententiā The Souldier Souldier by taking his badge and yelding his name to be booked which is a deede though he speake nothing promiseth and so farre forth bindeth him selfe to obey his Captaine and to abide the fortune of warre The Gētiles in old time that receiued Circuncisiō who were called Proselyti Proselyti by that very facte made Vowe and protestatiō to perfourme what Moyses law required though they said nothing And many a Christian
Gods minister to see iustice ministred and the Violences and iniuries of his Lieutenantes and Officers pounished and these ciuil causes of Felonie Murder and Rape to be truely and thoroughly examined ad vindictam malorum to the reuenge of malefactours wrote his letters to al them that had ben at the foresaid conuenticle at Tyrus and required them to appeare before him as before the syncere minister of God and to render accompte of their dealing against Athanasius in those Ciuil cases Of this mater See the Returne Art 4. Item the Countreblast lib. 2 Cap. 2. 3 For he might wel doo it and nothing further M. Iewel in proufe of his desperate cause that a Bishoppe was conuented in maters of Faith and ecclesiastical causes before the Ciuil Magistrate as his lawful and ordinarie Iudge Iewel Pag. 638. Iustinian the Emperour in the lavve that he maketh touching the publique praiers of the Churche saith thus we commaunde al Bishoppes and Priestes to minister the holy oblation Authentica constit 123. and the prayer at the holy Baptisme not vnder silence but with suche voice as maie be heard of the faithful people to thintente the hartes of the hearers maie be stirred to more Deuotion c. Aftervvarde he addeth further And let the holy Priestes vnderstand that if they neglecte any of these thinges they shal make answere therefore at the dreadful iudgement of the great God and our Sauiour Iesus Christe And yet neuerthelesse we our selues vnderstanding the same wil not passe it ouer nor leaue it vnpounished Hereby vve see that Godly princes maie summone Bishoppes to appeare before them euen in causes Ecclesiastical to receiue such pounischement as they haue deserued Harding For answere to this or any thinge that you can bring out of Iustinian for breuities sake I referre you to Iustinian him selfe By whose constitutions and Godly lawes it maie easily appeare how farre he was from claiming superioritie ouer Bishoppes or gouernment as supreme iudge in causes Ecclesiastical as he who decreed according to the definitions of the 4. general Councelles that in Spiritual causes the Pope of the elder Rome should be taken for the chiefe of al Priestes and aduertised Pope Iohn that there should be nothing moued perteining to the state of the Churche but that he would signifie it to his Holinesse being Heade of al Churches and declared that in all his Lawes and dooinges for matters Ecclesiastical he gaue place to the holy Canons made by the Fathers and willed that when any Ecclesiastical matter were moued his Laie officers should not intermelde but suffer the Bishoppes to ende it according to the Canons In this very Constitution whiche you haue alleged with these special wordes he committeth the Iudgement and pounishment of al sortes of offences committed by them of the Clergie to such as the Canons haue put in authoritie Authentica constit 123. Thus he decreeth Quotiescunque aliquis vel Sacerdotum vel Clericorum vel Praesulum vel Monachorum vel de fide vel de turpi vita vel quòd contra sacros aliquid Canones peregerit accusatus fuerit si quidem is qui accusatus Episcopus fuerit huius Metropolitanus ea quae proferentur examinato Si verò Metropolitanus beatissimus Archiepiscopus sub quo censetur si Presbyter aut Diaconus aut alius Clericus aut Praesul Monasterij aut Monachus Religiosissimus Episcopus sub quo hi censentur delata in accusationem examinato veritate cōprobata vnusquisque pro modo delicti Canonicis censuris subijcitor iudicio eius qui causae examinationem accommodat As often as any either of the Priestes or of the Clerkes or of the Prelates or of the Monkes is accused either of faith or of filthy life or that he hath done ought against the holy Canons in case he that is accused be a Bishop let his Metropolitane examine the thinges that shal be laid to his charge if he be a Metropolitan let the Archebishop vnder whom he is haue the examination If he be a Priest or a Deacon or some other Clerke or a Prelate of a Monasterie or some Monke let the Bishop vnder whose iurisdiction they are examine the thinges that be laid in accusation And when the truth is tried out let euery one abide the Censures of the Canons for the rate of the faulte by the iudgement of him that sitteth vpon the examination of the matter Againe how farre he was from the minde and wil that Bishops or any other whatsouer Ecclesiastical personnes should be summoned to appeare before him or his temporal officers in iudgement for any Ecclesiastical cause this expresse Decree which there also ye might haue founde sufficiently witnesseth Si Ecclesiasticum negotium sit nullam Communionem habento Ciuiles Magistratus cum ea disceptatione sed Religiosissimi Episcopi secundùm sacros Canones negotio finem imponunto If the matter be Ecclesiastical that is to be iudged let the Ciuile Magistrates haue nothing to doo with it But let the most Religious Bishoppes make an ende of it according to the holy Canons By these as also by the purporte of sundrie other Iustinians constitutions ordinances and decrees al menne maie see that he neither chalenged any supreme dominion ouer Bishops and Priestes in Ecclesiastical causes nor enacted this nor any other lawe as chiefe Gouernour of the Churche but followed the holy Councels and willed the Canons to take place and confirmed that which was decreed by them For special answer then to this special obiection made out of the 123 constitution I saie that Iustinian threatned to pounishe them with the seueritie of temporal lawes who would not be conteined in their duetie by Ecclesiastical discipline and order of the Canons that feare might force where loue and conscience could not binde Which policie we doo not mislike seing Duo vincula fortius ligant two bondes binde faster then one To be shorte Iustinian leaueth the correction of Clerkes offending in any thing against the Canons to the cēsures of the Canons And if any refuse to abide the order appointed by the Canons and vtterly shake of the yoke of the Canons then that is to say in the case of extreme stubbornesse and contempte of the Canons like a Godly prince he threateneth reuenge and pounishment In which case the Church doth now cal and alwaies hath called for the aide of the Seculare Arme against those that vtterly refuse to be corrected by the censures of the Church and seeme incorrigible So neither by the lawes of Iustinian neither by the example of Brunichildis neither by the Gloses that you so solemnely allege it can not be seene that Godly Princes might euer summone Bishops to appeare before them to receiue any pounishment at their handes as their superiours and supreme gouernours in ecclesiastical causes Peraduenture if we put on eyes of better sighte we maie see it hereafter if wee diligently attende what you saie Foorth therefore M. Iewel Iewel Pag. 638.
benne halfe in a phrenesie you might haue learned L. NaÌ„ ad ad ea ff de legibus ff de regu lis iuris that ex ijs quaeraro accidâ—nt lages non fiunt of those thinges that happen seldome lawes are not made And Quae propter necessitatem recepta sunt non debent in argumentum trahi those thinges that are receiued for necessitie ought not to be drawen to an argument or president to be followed Wherefore â—â—ither vpon the doinges of the Emperours in that great and lamentable schisme of the Church neither vpon Zabarella you can builde that Bishoppes may ordinarily be conuented before a ciuil Magistrate in ecclesiastical causes But sir seing you thought it conuenient for your purpose to vse the authoritie of Zabarella although you haue fowly falsified and misreported his wordes tel vs by what reason you maie refuse his authoritie if we can allege it against you He saith in the same treatie that you allege Papa est vniuersalis Episcopus Zabarella M. Ievvels ovvne doctor alleged agaiÌ„st M. Ievvel Papa non habet superiorem Papa habet iurisdictionem potestatem super omnes de iure Sedes Apostolica errare non potest The Pope is the vniuersal Bishop The Pope hath no superiour The Pope hath iurisdiction and power ouer al by lawe The Apostolique See can not erre Why admitte you not this Is it reason that you should admitte an authours saying the whiche he spake and allowed in a case of necessitie for auoiding of a greater danger and not admitte the same authours saying in the same treatie whiche he speaketh according to receiued and approued doctrine of the Catholique Church Aske your aduocate L. Si quis Cod. de testibus and he wil tel you that reason and lawe faith That si quis vsus fuerit testibus ijdemque testes producantur aduersus eum in alia lite non licebit personas eorum excipere If one vse witnesses in a cause and the same witnesses be brought against him in an other controuersie it is not lawful for him to make exception against their personnes And if either reason or lawe could preuaile where heresie hath entred you should not onely admitte this but also that whiche he saith in an other place â—â—â—â—stas 〈…〉 immediate pendat à Deo Ioan. 21. per illa verba Pasce 〈…〉 Papa habet potestatem supra omnes quic omnes sunt â—â—â—s Papae vicem Dei gerit in terris Zabarella in ClemeÌ„t de SenteÌ„t reiudicata cap. pastoralis Ibidem in Clement de magistris cap. Inter. de Sentent excommu cap. ex frequeÌ„tib The power of the Pope dependeth immediatly of God by those wordes feede my sheepe The Pope hath power ouer al bicause al be sheepe The Pope beareth the person of God in earth For he spake this with as good aduise as he spake the other And this is generally allowed and that but in a case Wherefore if his authoritie be good in the one ought it not to be good in the other Now therefore M. Iewel I reporte me to your indifferent iudgement how true it is that you saie that a Prince or a ciuil magistrate maie lawfully cal a Priest before him to his owne seate of iudgement and that a Bishop maie be conuented before the Magistrate as his lawful and superiour iudge in ecclesiastical causes No one example or sentence that ye haue yet alleged doth proue that vaine assertion of yours Neither could ye haue had any aduantage by them if ye had truely reported their wordes and declared the circumstances why and wherefore they were spoken But that liked you not Wherefore referring your corruption and false dealing in these matters of weight to the judgement of God and examination of the indifferent and wise I conclude against you with S. Augustine S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome and al other Catholique Fathers that it is not conuenient Extr. de Maiorit obed cap. 2. in marg nor lawful for a king to cal priestes before him to his owne seat of Iudgement as their superiour in ecclesiastical causes As for the note glosed in the Decretalles which ye bring to proue that priestes are exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction by the Popes policie and the princes consent and not by the worde of God we tel you that suche glosed notes declare you to be a very Gloser and argue that your stoare is farre spent when you rest vpon such marginal glosed notes Were it graunted which in no case we graunt that Bisshoppes and priestes were exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction in ecclesiastical causes onely by the Popes policie and consent of princes for confirmation whereof they haue made diuers lawes and geuen out large priuileges yet these lawes standing vnreapealed and priuileges vnauthorized they can not be conuented lawfully before the ciuil magistrate For it standeth not with the Maiestie of a prince to doo against his owne lawes and breake the priuileges by him selfe graunted to others before he hath with as mature aduise and consideration reuoked them as he did first graunte them That the Canonistes are wrongfully charged by the Apologie with teaching the people that Simple Fornication is no sinne The 15 Chapter The wordes of the Apologie Defence Pag. 357. They be the Popes ovvne Canonistâ—â— vvhiche haue taught the people that Fornication betvven single foâ—â—â— iâ— no sinne Harding A sclaunder vttered by the Apologie against the Canonistes not recanted in the Defence touching the thing but only touching the errour of the name IN my CoÌ„futation I saie that this is a greuous offence and worthy to be pounished in processe I saie to the makeâ—s of the Apologie How proue ye it They allege for it one Iohn de Magistris How be it M. Iewel hath recanted that errour and confesseth him selfe to haue ben deceiued For he graunteth it was Martinus de Magistris whom he meant or should haue meant He should doo wel to recant diuers other the like his errours For he hath not only ben deceiued by his note bookes or his Notegatherers in naming Iohn de Magistris for Martinus de Magistris but also in the names of sundrie other menne as it shal be declared in the nexte Chapter But touching the sclaunder of the Canonistes if Martinus de Magistrâ—â— had so taught yet the matter is not cleare for he wâ—â— no Canoniste but a Schoole Doctor of Diuinitie Againâ— he â—â—â—â—ht not the people as our Maisters of the Apologie â—â—e but onely wrote of that matter after the Scholastical manner from vnderstanding whereof the peoples simple capacitie is farre of Wel let these three errours Lyes or ouersightes be â—inâ—â—ed at Hitherto the Canonistes are not touched but sclaundered What shal we answer for Martinus de Magistris Certainely neither that Doctour taught either the people or any other person that vngodly and false Doctrine Certaine it is that in this Treatie De Temperantia quaestione 2. he taught the contrarie where
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
certaine mo the like be those which I haue let passe as being partely vnnecessarie and vnprofitable partely vnmeete good houres to be bestowed about them By the handeling of these the weightier pointes it wil sufficiently appeare to al menne with what stuffe he filleth his great Bookes what smal credite he deserueth how litle pith there is to be found in his multitude of wordes how litle there is that serueth aptly to the purpose among the great heapes of testimonies that he laieth together Surely his Defence being wel examined by any man that hath skil and can iudge of these points it must needes be thought that when he saw he had not the plaine truth of his side yet with multitude of allegations he would make a shew of learning to the ignorant and trouble the answerer with confusion Euen so many Barbarous Princes as we reade in stories when they lacked a conuenient number of good and tried Souldiers haue gonne about to fraie their enemies with multitude of people who haue learned by their great ouerthrowes that oftentimes victorie is not obteined by multitude of menne In deede the Truth needeth not so many sayinges piked out of Schoolemenne of Summistes of Gloses vpon Gratian and other partes of the Canon Lawe and out of so many Canonistes of al sortes For trial of a mater to be prooued true in questions touching our beleefe one saying of the Scripture is sufficient if the expresse Scripture faile vs twoo or three Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers not being contrarie to the reste maie suffice But suche a confuse and vnorderly number of sayinges specially of suche as be not of great estimation as this man commonly allegeth of the same not one making cleerely for this purpose in moste matters what doth it els but breede a suspicion among the wise that the matter is not true for proufe whereof they be alleged But by this meane he thought to winne credit at least with the people For the people that can not iudge of these matters thinketh him best learned that hath most woordes It is knowen that when they beholde two reasoning together of any thing whereof they haue no skil commonly they commend the mainteiner of the worse cause in case he be fuller of wordes be they neuer so litle to the purpose and say in his praise that he answered the other partie to euery Quare M. Iewel vnderstanding this and making his most accompte of the people and of them that be vnlearned to whom he leaneth and by multitude of whom he and they of his side mind to stand for touching the learned they see they can winne none bestoweth great paines and charges to set out great bookes that at least in the opinion of the vnlearned and of them that haue not leisure to examine the points how substantially they are treated he maie seeme to haue done iolily and to haue acquited him selfe like a great Clerke In very deede if a man haue care howe muche he maie saie rather then how truly and feare not to vtter vntruthes he hath this aduantage ouer his aduersarie defending the truth with a conscience not to swarue from the censure of the Church that he may alwaies finde abundance of matter to vtter For as it hath of olde ben said Mendacium est multiplex veritas simplex Lying is manifolde Truth is simple Lying hath many plaites and foldinges Truth is without plaite or wrinckle Therefore it is no marueile if the Treaties of the one be narrowe and shorte of the other wide and long As for me if I prooue M. Iewel an vntrue man in so many pointes as I haue treated of I haue donne that whereby his credite must be broken His credite being broken what remaineth but that in this kinde of trade he go for a Banckroute If he be a Banckrout worthily is he to be begiled that trusteth him Some wil say perhaps it is not likely I should with so smal a booke discredit him that hath written so much But it maie please this man to remember that to saie the truth it is not M. Iewel that hath written muche He hath taken muche out of other mens bookes of his owne he hath in maÌ„ner nothing certainely very litle So that peruse his Booke who wil he shal finde that he is but a seely Translatour of other mens wordes a heaper together of al Writers sayings and that most commonly to more ostentation of tale then to the making vp of good weight So that if thinges be brought to an exact trial he shal be found no disputer no reasoner no discourser no Writer but only a gatherer together of other mennes Sentences How be it it is not the hugenesse of a booke that argueth the sufficiencie of proufes Truth is content to be set foorth with few wordes Neither yet doo I reproue him for that he allegeth what he findeth in other Writers For therby we bring credite to doubteful matters But for that alleging so much he allegeth so litle to the purpose yea in manner nothing and boldly wil I auouche it vtterly nothing for due proufe of any his new and strange doctrines being contrarie to that of ancient time hath benne beleeued in the Catholique Churche This shal seeme more probable if it be confirmed by some plaine and true examples Lette vs then examine M. Iewelles common demeanour in an example or twoo To discusse many the breuitie of a Preface wil not permitte O that he were in place to choose the example him selfe out of his whole Booke to his best aduantage that so it might euidently appeare with what weake tooles he fighteth against the truth ExaÌ„ples vvhereby it is shewed hovve vvith void and impertineÌ„t stuffe M. Ievvel filleth his great Booke Defence Pag. 163. Heb. 13. Confut. 73 b. Marke hovv M. Ievv alvvaies keepeth him selfe from coÌ„ming vnto the point in controuersie Whereas in the Apologie much is said in the commeÌ„dation of Matrimonie which no Catholique man euer discommended as that it is Holy and honorable in al sortes and states of personnes in the Apostles in the Ministers of the Church and in Bisshops and that it is an honest and lawful thing as S. Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in Matrimonie to take vpon him therewith the dignitie of a Bisshop to this I saie in my Confutation that albeit Matrimonie be holy and honorable in al and an vndefiled â—eâ— as S. Paule saith yet that it is not lawful for such personnes to marrie who haue deliberately vowed Chastitie or haue taken holy Orders This there I prooue by good and sufficient authoritie as it maie be seene in my said Confutation Now what is M. Iewels part here to proue for maintenaÌ„ce of his doctrine but that a man notwithstaÌ„ding his Vow or receiuing of holy Orders maie lawfully marrie This is the very point of the controuersie and thereto onely should he haue directed his talke If he go about any thing els it is beside the purpose But consider
Reader how he keepeth him selfe a luffe of from the point with what stuffe he filleth certaine leaues of his Booke how he starreth from Doctour to Doctour how he confoundeth him selfe and the Reader and though he bring neuer so much out of other Writers yet commeth not at al to the point directly First Pag. 165. he laboureth to discredite the holy Ancient Fathers as menne that haue not dealte indifferently herein but haue gonne to farre either in the auancing of Virginitie or in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie Before he entreth his Allegations whereof that whole Treatie standeth he putteth foorth twoo sayinges the one of Origen the other of S. Hierome in reproufe of them that condemned Matrimonie And yet euen there immediatly after he allegeth them both for condemners of Matrimonie Then he laith foorth the stoare of his Allegations whereby he would haue it appeare Tertulliā alleged by M. Ievvel against the Churche in that for vvhiche he is condēned of the Churche that certaine Ancient Writers had an euil opinion of Matrimonie There he allegeth two sayinges of Tertullian in exhortatione ad castitatem whiche Booke he wrote against the Churche as S. Hierome saith and therefore it is condemned of the Churche for whiche cause he should not haue alleged him then twoo sayinges out of the Authour of the imperfite worke vppon S. Matthew vnder the name of S. Chrysostome which also is a worke ful of heresies Item certaine sayinges out of S. Hierome writing against Iouinian and Heluidius Againe sayinges out of Athenagoras S. Hierome Gregorie Nazianzen and Origen by whiche he beareth the Reader in hande they haue condemned the seconde Marriages of Widowers and Widowes After this he reckeneth vp so manie Priestes Pag. 166. and Bishops as he hath read of to haue benne married menne who in deede were married before they receiued holy Orders and not otherwise There Palea Palea that is to say the Chaffe that is set out in Gratian concerning Priestes and Bishops that were many Popes Fathers a very fonde fabulous tale is admitted to the place of a great Doctor yet by him much falsified Pag. 167. and altered from that he found in Gratians booke There also beside the report of Aeneas Syluius whiche him selfe recanted and of Polydore Vergil a man of our time and in these matters of smal credite he sticketh not to praie helpe of one Fabian a late seely Chronicler of London and with his woorshipful testimonie forsooth would faine prooue his mater that is to saie with a maine Lie that Bishoppes and Priestes lyued a thousand yeres together with their Wiues no lawe being to the contrarie Nowe were al these thinges true according to the purporte of M. Iewelles doctrine as for the more parte they are very false and the Doctours by him corrupted and very vntruly reported what should they make for his purpose I meane for the point it selfe of this Controuersie which is that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie or after holy Orders receiued For I trow M. Iewel wil not vse this simple kind of Logique Certaine ancient Writers condemned Matrimonie which is vtterly false in respecte of al others by M Iewel here named excepte Tertullian that condemned the seconde Marriages whom the Churche for the same reiecteth Item certaine learned and holy menne in the Primitiue Churche were made Priestes and Bisshoppes after they had benne married Ergo it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken As this reason is fonde and litle worth so al the sayinges of Writers whiche he hath heaped together hitherto serue him to no purpose but to increase the bulke of his Booke After al this feeling him selfe pressed with the force of the Vowe which being aduisedly made is of necessitie to be performed as I prooued in my Confutation to keepe him selfe stil a luffe of from the point of the Question he taketh a newe waie saying that the Priestes in England were neuer Votaries Touching this matter whether the Priestes of England were Votaries or no F◠290. ◠I referre the Reader vnto the first Chapter of the fifth booke of this Treatie Howsoeuer it be by this answer M. Iewel fleeth from the point as farre as he fled before For the Question is whether Priestes in general that haue made a Vowe of Chastitie maie marrie and he answereth that Priestes of England be not Votaries Which answer serueth as aptly in this case as if a question being demaūded of him whether Heretikes are to be burned he would answer we the Superintendentes of England and our Ministers be no heretiques From this he conueigheth him selfe to certaine common places and bringeth in a Huge number of Doctours sayinges tending to this meaning in effect that Chastitie is hard to keepe that it is the gifte of God that God geueth it not to al that it is to be counselled but not commaunded that a man consider wel of what strength he is and if he see him selfe not hable to perfourme the preceptes of Virginitie that rather then he fal into the dungeon of deadly sinne he take a wife and vse the remedie ordeined against incontinencie Al which sayinges we graunt be true and are to be vnderstanded of them whiche be free and haue not bounde them selues by deliberate Vowe to conteine To be shorte it were a very tedious thing here to reherse how he ronneth from Doctour to Doctour how he craueth stuffing of the Canonistes and Schoolemen whom God wote he litle esteemeth how he writeth out their sentences and therewith filleth vp his Booke As for the ancient Doctours sayinges that folow after al this they are spoken some against the perfourmance of wicked Vowes some serue for admonition that certaine maie be suffred to marrie who hauing made onely a simple Vowe either can not or wil not conteine and that the Marriages of suche personnes ought to stand for good and not to be dissolued some importe rebuke of filthy life and exhortation to Chastitie some be written against them that either vtterly condemned the state of Matrimonie or willed Priestes and Deacons in the Primitiue Churche to be compelled to forsake the companie of their lawful Wiues whiche they had married before they receiued holy Orders Thus he writeth out other mennes sayinges without order or discretiō skippeth from one matter to an other and emptieth as it were the stoare of his Notebookes into this Defence and when he hath shuffled in al he proueth nothing directly but onely bringeth the Reader to a Confusion and commeth not at al to the discussion of the point that we staie vpon whiche in this matter of Priestes Marriages is that to marrie it is not lawful after deliberate Vowe of chastitie made nor after holy Orders receiued What colourable argumentes or testimonies he bringeth to proue the affirmatiue Infrà lib. 5 Cap. 2 in this Treatie Reader thou shalt see them cleerely confuted Likewise to shew
thee an other example hauing taken vpon him to proue Defence Pag. 157. that the Canonistes haue taught the people that Fornication betwen single folke is no sinne it is a worlde to see what a doo he maketh what a number of Allegations he hudleth together and when he hath vttered al his stoare he is as farre from proufe of that he tooke in hand to proue as he was before he beganne So that in effecte nothing thereby is done but onely malice shewed and incke and paper spent First to make a great shewe Defence 360. and to increase his Volume for to what other purpose I see not he telleth vs of certaine beastly sayinges of Aetius the olde Heretique and of Prodicus the heathen philosopher as though the Canonistes were to be blamed for the faultes of the Heretiques and Infidelles of olde time Nexte he bringeth in Laurentius Valla the Grammarian whose saying though it be not needeful here to reherse for the reuerence of chaste eares yet it maie with a conuenient interpretation be honestly defended Then Richardus de Sancto Victore a late Schooleman and Socrates the Historiographer are haled in to geue their verdite and though they tel vs of the corrupte iudgement of certaine that made litle accompte in conscience of Fornication and whooredome yet that the Popes Canonistes taught the people that simple Fornication is no sinne thereof they speake not one word Which bicause M. Iewel him selfe perceiued right wel he preuēted that he feared would be obiected and after that number of impertinent allegations M. Ievvelles But. commeth in as his manner is with his But saying But ye wil saie al this hitherto perteineth nothing vnto the Canonistes To whom answere maie be returned that so it is in deed and whereas he knew it him selfe what meant he neuerthelesse to put it in but to increase the heape of his Volume After this he pretendeth to come to the very point and to hit the naile on the head as they saie And there he taketh aduantage of a Decree of the first Toletane Councel falsly reported in Gratian by the ouersight of the printer in an olde Copie many other Copies being true whiche aduantage neuerthelesse eftsones there he forgoeth confessing the Copie to be false Yet al must in to fil vp the great booke Then he goeth to the true Copie and either by ignorance he mistaketh the place or by malice falsifieth the sense dissembling that the worde Concubina Cōcubina is oftentimes taken in good parte to witte for a woman vsed in al respectes like a Wife and with the intent and affection of wedlocke before the Marriage be openly solemnized This shal be better perceiued by reading that I haue said hereof Lib. 5. cap. 15. From that Councel whiche was holden long before any of the Canonistes whom so fowly he sclaundereth wrote letter he goeth to peake in his Gloses the Gloses I meane vpon Otho whom like an vnskilful lawier he maketh one with Otho bonus and vpon the Decrees of Gratian. The one Gloselie falsifieth by leauing out a worde of chiefe importance the other of purpose he misconstrueth the rest that he allegeth out of an other Glose and out of one Petrus Rauennas a Canoniste is true and perteineth nothing to the wicked doctrine whereof he accuseth the Canonistes From the Gloses he starteth to S. Augustine in Enchiridio ad Laurentium Defence 361. And out of him he taketh a sentence vtterly to no purpose but to fil vp the paper From S. Augustine to the Councel of Basile then to Erasmus in Enchiridio militis Christiani belying them bothe From Erasmus he crepeth to Iacobus de Valentia Iacob de Valentia in Psal 118 saying of Iewes Saracenes and certaine il Christian menne that to excuse their detestable life they affirme simple Fornication to be lawful But what is this to the Canonistes From this Iacobus the Spaniard of Valentia he conueieth him selfe to Alexander of Hales the English man and from him to Antonius of Florence the Italian But at their handes he findeth no more reliefe then he founde at the others By Antonius it is roported onely that their errour is confuted who saie that simple Fornication is no sinne In Alexander there is nothing founde but onely a saying pretended to be S. Ambroses whiche maketh nothing to the purpose neither is it at al being vttered in suche wordes to be found in S. Ambrose At length he endeth this matter with a falsified saying of S. Augustine making that holy Father as vntruly he reporteth his tale to saie that he can not tel whether that kinde of Fornication whiche single menne committe with single womenne be forbidden or no. Whiche were it true that S. Augustine so said as in deede he saith it not but speaketh otherwise as here the reader shal finde by me declared yet by that the sclaunder vttered against the Canonistes is not iustified This muche haue I here noted for examples sake to the intent thou maist vnderstand Reader what order he keepeth commonly in his writing and whereof it commeth that his bookes rise to suche a huge quantitie And as he hath donne in these two matters so hath he donne in the reste very fewe excepted The same would I here by sundrie other mo euident examples shewe were it not ouer long Certainely this is not to answer a Booke it is not learnedly to replie it is not directly to confute a Booke It is onely an ostentation of much reading it is a copying out of common places laid vp in Notebookes it is to render wordes for reasons and heapes of impertinent sentences of what so euer Writers for apte testimonies of the ancient Fathers Briefly it is not an orderly disproufe of the doctrine that the Church hath hitherto holden For who so wil consider of it with right iudgement shal finde our proufes to stande vnshaken and my former Booke to remaine a sufficient Confutatiō not only of the Apologie but also of the pretensed Defence it selfe That it maie truly be said there was a Confutation of the Defence made before the Defence it selfe was printed For if the pointes of my former Booke be wel weighed and considered of they wil to the learned seeme a sufficient answer to what so euer he bringeth For trial hereof I referre me to the answere whiche here I haue made vnto his View of Vntruthes The View of M. Ievvels Vntruthes Among whiche Vntruthes thou shalt finde few noted out of the Apologie so by him discharged but that in respect of my Confutation notwithstanding his Defence he maie seeme stil to stand chargeable no lesse then before If he can no better discharge him selfe of suche Vntruthes which he him selfe hath chosen out of the whole heape as the least and easiest for him to defende and in iustification of which he had greatest cōfidence it maie soone be iudged how vnlike it is that he shal be hable to discharge him selfe of those
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
Hornes and Trompettes should haue stooncke of your breath But it is wel that he hath a Good name and is no Pope Item there Iewel VVhereas also Pope Boniface the eight for that he could not haue the treasorie of Fraunce at his commaundement endeuoured vvith al his both ecclesiastical and vvorldely puissance to remoue Philip the Frenche king from his estate and vnder his Bulles or letters Patentes had conueighed the same solemnely vnto Albertus the king of Romaines M. Harding here telleth your Maiestie that al this vvas vvel done to the intent thereby to fray the King and to keepe him iâ—â—vvâ— and to reclaime his minde from Dissobedience Confut. fol. 1â—2 b. Harding Neither was this the cause of Pope Bonifacius his falling out with the Frenche king that you assigne nor applied he al his both Ecclesiastical and temporal power to depriue the King of his Crowne nor euer said I that al this was very wel done as you report With so many Vntruthes you abuse the pacience of her Highnesse Let my wordes be weighed as I vttered them my selfe and then may it be iudged whether I answere to the sclaunderous obiection of the Apologie reasonably or you out face the matter with lying falsly These be my wordes Confut. fol. 182. a. The causes of the strife betvvene Philippus Pulcher and Pope Bonifacius Concerning that ye say of king Philip surnamed Le Bel if we may beleeue Paulus AEmylius the best writer of the Frenche Chronicles the cause was such betwene Pope Bonifacius and that King that if he did not only excommunicate him but also offered gifte of his Kingdome to Albert the Emperour as Platina your Author herein writeth he may seeme therein to haue done not altogether so euil as ye pretende For as bothe AEmylius and Platina do witnesse the cause of their falling out was that whereas the Pope being first sued vnto by Cassanus Cassanus a Christian Prince and a great Conquerour in the East to ioyne with him for the recouerie of the holy land sent the Bishop of Apamea to the Frenche King for his necessarie aide in that so common a quarel of al Christendome he being offended either that the sute was not first made to him either for that the said Bishop had done his Ambassade with shewe of more auctoritie then the King thought it became him or vpon some other priuate grudge did not only vtterly refuse to sende any helpe toward the voyage but also contemptuously beside common order and cruelly committed the Popes legate to prison and there kept him vntil such time as through the Popes Interdict the King was compelled to set him at libertie Now of geuing awaie his kingdome this chiefe French Historiographer maketh no mention And if the Pope so did why may he not seeme to haue done it rather to feare him and to reclaime his mind from disobedience Verely Platina writing it declareth how before the Pope proceded to that extremitie the French King did what in him laye to withdrawe the people of Fraunce from the obedience of the Churche and See Apostolike Al these thinges with eueÌ„ iudgement weighed that Pope seemeth not so much worthy of the blame which by your maligne reporte ye charge him with specially the occasion being first geuen of the Kinges vnlawful demeanour But what so euer may be iudged hereof yea though the Pope therein be without al excuse what is that to you How serueth it you to any colour of excuse of your Schisme and cutting of your selues from the rest of Christendome Christes mystical bodie Thus there And whereas M. Iewel maketh so much adoo about that whiche in deed I said not but whiche he vntruly beareth the Reader in hand I say that is that yf the Pope gaue away the kingdome of France from the Prince he did it to thintent to fray him whereat he ieasteth in the Defence saying A prety deuise to fraie a king to pulle the Crowne Emperial from his head to this I answere I spake it not absolutely but asked why if the Pope so did the case being wel weighed he might not seeme rather to haue done it to fraie him and to reclaime his minde from disobedience as by the euent it was shewed that so he did For the Frenche King returning to obedience and being reconciled kepte stil the crowne notwithstanding that gifte And when so euer any Prince at other times reuoked his euil purpose and confourmed him selfe to right such giftes of titles were also eftsones by the Popes reuoked In deede certaine Popes vsed that practise as a meane only to withdrawe Princes from wicked attemptes and most coÌ„monly the same tooke good effecte I denie not but some times by such practise Princes were remoued from their estate and other enioyed their roumes but the same were such as perseuered incorrigible Item there Iewel Novv touching your Maiesties noble Progenitours the kinges of this realme vvhere as vve as our loialtie and allegiance bindeth vs iustly coÌ„plaine that Pope Alexander 3. by violence and tyrannie forced king HeÌ„rie the second to surrender his crovvne Emperial into the handes of his Legate and aftervvard for a certaine space to contente him selfe in priuate estate to the great indignatioÌ„ and griefe of his louing Subiectes And that likevvise Pope Innocentius the third sturred vp the Nobles and Commons of this realm against King Iohn and gaue the inheritance and possession of his dominions vnto Ludouicus the French king as for the misusing of your Maiesties most deere Father of most noble memorie king HeÌ„rie the eight for asmuch as the smarte thereof is in fresh remembrance I vvil say nothing to these and al other like tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe M. Harding shortely and in light manner thinketh it sufficient to ansvver thus vvhat though King Henrie the second vvere il entreated of Pope Alexander 3. vvhat though king Iohn vvere il entreated of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius Tertius VVhat though King Henrie the eight vvere likevvise entreated of the Popes in our tiâ—es Confut. fol. 340. a. Harding Many and sundry false partes practized by M. Ievvel at once Here al thinges are laid forth with Rhetorical amplifications to the most aduantage withal many vntrue partes be practized The Popes are falsely belyed The wicked deedes of the Kinges are craftily conceeled My wordes are impudently falsified My whole purpose and meaning is misconstrued The ende for which I spake thereof drawen therevnto by special occasion ministred by the Apologie which was chiefely to be treated of is not so much as with one word touched My tale is cut of in the middes and may not be suffred to be tolde out to the end Now bicause there is no dealing with M. Iewel but the bookes whence euery thing is alleged being laid open and euery place that is handled turned vnto for there was neuer Iuggler that begyled mennes eyes more with legierdemaine then he begileth mennes mindes with his false sleightes if his
man knoweth not what is meant by this words Apostata it may here be said that Apostata is he that forsaketh either the faith whiche in Baptisme he promised to keepe or that Rule and Order of Religious life whiche by solemne vow and open protestation at his entrie into Religion he promised to leade his life in Of the first sorte Iulianus that wicked Emperour and Porphyrius are examples So are the great Soldans Mammaluches and many of the great Turkes Ianizaires Of the second sorte be suche Moonkes and Friers and al other whatsoeuer Religious that foresake their habite willingly departe out of their Cloister and returne vnto the order of secular personnes Of whiche sorte there be mo seene abroad in the world at these daies then euer were in our Forefathers time If I cal these Apostates I cal them by that common name by whiche al the worlde hath euer called them And therefore the offence is very smal if it be any at al. Verely it is no greater then to cal them Theeues that for Theafte be hanged at Tyborn As touching the other terme Loose Loose whereas sithence the Apostles time vppon Deuotion many bereued them selues of their owne libertie and for Gods sake bounde them selues by solemne Vow to a straight and hard order of life and this sweete Gospel of yours setteth suche at libertie teacheth them to breake their promise made to God to caste of the yoke of Chastitie and to solace them selues with their Yokefellowes for so they cal their Strompettes to forsake the Vowe of Voluntarie Pouertie and to enioye al the worldlywelth they can procure and to shake of the yoke of al Obedience and to be vnder no rule but the rule of this Gospel that is to say to keepe what rule they liste this being so what great sinne was it to cal them Loose Speake we wel when of brute beastes breaking out of a pounde stable ropes fetters chaines or from the bridle we say they are brokeâ—â—â—ose 〈…〉 â—e accompâ—â—d il speache 〈◊〉 we say of Mâ—nâ—â—â— â—nd â—riers that â—oÌ„ne out or their Cloisters take Qâ—eanes vnder the name of holy wedlocke breake al vowes and al order that they be loose What bandes be stronger to binde man with al before God and in conscience then voluntarie Promises then Othes then solemne Vowes Who so euer maketh no conscience to breake these bandes if he be not a Loose man I know not whom we may cal a loose man And if such a one be a Loose man why may he not be so called specially that others may so the rather be fraid from the like contempte of God The founder of your Gospel Martin Luther was an Austen Frier neuerthelesse he married the waÌ„ton NuÌ„ne of Nymick in Saxonie Peter Martyr your great Rabbin was a Regular Chanon of the Order of S. Augustine He married at Strasburg Dame Katerine a loose Nunne Peter Martyr and dame Katerine the NuÌ„ne his vvife Oecolam padius Bucer a Dominican Pellican a FranciscaÌ„ Castalio a Carthusian Hooper Barlovv DounhaÌ„ Skory Barkley that ranne out of her Cloister at Metz in Lorraine Shal it be an vnciuile parte to cal them loose Apostates The Birgittine frier Oecolampadius the Patriarke of your felowes the Sacramentaries brake his vowe fled from his Religion married a wife saue the honour of true wedlock so did Bucer ablacke Frier so did Conrade Pellican a gray Frier so did Castalio a moonke Cartusian And for good manners sake shal we be afraid to cal them loose Apostates As for Mooncke Hooper the vsurper of Worceter and Gloueâ—ter Barlow of Chichester Frier or Chanon or bothe as I heare say Sir Downham of Westchester the Bonhome of Asheridge Frier Skory of Hereforde al married and the two olde good Fathers Frier Barkley of Bathe and Welles and Frier Couerdal Couerdal the Quondam of Exceter which after the death of their olde wiues haue of late yoked them selues againe to two yong wemen for their comforte in age forbearing to speake any worse worde of them bicause they be your very frendes may I not be so bolde as to cal them loose Apostates TOuching other bitter wordes gathered by you out of my writinges into your Rolle Huguenotes of France Gues of the lovv Countrie though your EuaÌ„gelical Brethern the Huguenotes of Fraunce and Scotland and the Gues of the low Countrie that haue robbed and spoiled so many Churches so many Monasteries NoÌ„neries and other places and haue burnt so many thousandes of faire bookes with the Libraries and coÌ„mitted so many horrible outrages I may not least I seme vncourteous cal them Theeues Churcherobbers the Deuils ministers Satans broode scholers of Satans schoole Caluinistes Satanistes Deuilish Rable Turkish Huguenotes c. For these be vnciuile and vnmannerly wordes saith M. Iewel and it is a great offence to vse them Though Frier Luther were taught of the Deuil in a night conference as he †See the Preface before my last Reioinder tovvard the ende confesseth him selfe to abandon the Masse and to worke al the spite he could against the most blessed Sacrifice of the Churche yet for ciuilities sake he may not be called the Nouice of the Deuil nor his Folowers the Ennemies of the Sacrifice neither may that be called the Deuils Schoole were the Deuil Luthers schoolemaster neuer so muche What Turkish wickednes hath proceeded out of this Doctrine who seeth not yet by M. Iewel it is beside good manner to cal it Turkish Doctrine The Professours of this doctrine and specially M. Iewel him selfe doo omitte no occasion yea they seeke al occasions they can to reuele and blase abroade vnto the worlde Chams broode the Defaultes and imperfections of the Catholiques without whiche menne liue not and chiefly if perhappes some Abuses haue creapte into some particular Churches they make muche of a litle folowing therein the facte of Cham Gen. 9. who reueled the nakednes of his Father Noe. This notwithstanding it is noted in M. Iewels Rolle of my sharpe woordes for a greuous offence that I cal such personnes Chams broode Who euer wrote so filthily and so bawdelike as Frier Bale Bale that Irishe Prelate of Oserie The harte can not be cleane whose eares can abide to heare such vncleane woordes Yet forsooth bicause he alwaies railed at the Catholike Churche and at the Clergie therof and wrought so mightily in the vineyard of their lorde that is to say in despite of the Pope and of al auncient order and religion it is skored vp by M. Iewel for a bitter speache that I called him Bawdy Bale geuing warning by that terme to al chaste hartes to refraine the reading of suche vnchast and filthy bookes That it was no great offence to cal M. Iewel him selfe a Lyer a Falsifier a Boaster a Scoffer AS for your selfe M. Iewel who euer was so vaine so foolish so insolent so cockish so mad as to make such a Chalenge to al learned men a liue And now how vnhable
hath not iustified these three Vntruthes To shew a thing to be doubtful is not to clere it of al Vntruth The .13 and .14 vntruthes Lyra in Daniel cap. 14. As for the other two Vntruthes where he reporteth Lyra to saie that many Miracles are wrought in the Church by the Priestes and their Companions to mocke the people notwithstanding any thing conteined in his Replie they remaine vndischarged and appeare as impudent lyes and falsifiynges as before How falsly he demeaneth him selfe in that pretensed saying of Lyra it shal appeare to him that readeth my Reioinder fol. 8. b. c. The .15 Vnthruth The .15 Vntruth is that he ascribeth the briefe Commentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles printed with S. Hieromes workes vnto S Hierome which are wel knowen and by Erasmus whom he so muche esteemeth confessed not to be S. Hieromes M. Iewels Replie hereto is this They are printed saith he emong other S. Hieromes workes and are commonly knowen by his name but by any other Authors name they are not knowen Bastard vvorkes printed among the true vvorkes assundrie Authors If that were a good Argument to proue them to be S. Hieromes bicause they are printed emong S. Hieromes workes then were it easy to proue a number of treaties to be S. Hieromes S. Augustines S. Ambroses S. Chrysostomes S. Cyprians and other auncient Doctours of the Churche whiche are wel knowen not to be theires and M. Iewel him selfe would make no smal triumph against vs if we should allege any testimonie out of suche vnder the name of the Doctours emong whose workes they be printed For who is so simple that cannot thus reason as for example the Rule of Nonnes it is printed emong other S. Hieromes workes Regula Monacharum Inter opera HieroÌ„ Toâ—â— 4. ergo it is S. Hieromes Item the treatie of the Inuention or finding of the Head of S. Iohn Baptiste is printed with S. Cyprians workes ergo it is S. Cyprians By this Argument you maie proue that the foolish epistle written to Abra S. Hilaries pretensed dawghter in the authoritie of whiche epistle you put great confidence for the defence of Priestes Marriages was S. Hilaries bicause it is pâ—inted with S. Hilaries workes So might the vnperfite worke written by some Heretique by Maximinus Arianus as some thinke vpon S. Matthew printed with S. Chrysostomes workes â—e auouched to be S. Chrysostomes and so shuld we make that holy and Catholike Doctor an Author of sundry great heresies The like Argument might be made for proufe and legitimation of sundrie other bastard Treatises which to father vpon those learned Fathers emong whose workes they are printed and be not knowen by other Authours names were great iniurie I dare boldly say M. Iewel him selfe how so euer he thought good thus to shifte his handes of an Vntruth laid to his charge would be loth to allow this for a good Argument in his Aduersarie For if he would he is not ignorans what a comber he should haue to answer vnto thinges that out of suche writinges might against him be alleged Hitherto he hath not discharged him selfe of those fifteen the least Vntruthes that be in my Reioinder noted against him out of his very first Diuision of his Replie to the first Article What a doo he should haue to iustifie the rest with which he standeth charged by me and by other menne who haue dubbed him Lorde and Author of a thousand moe Vntruthes by his feeble Answer vnto these fewe of least appearance it is soone conceiued Now lette vs see how he iustifieth the Vntruthes of the Apologie M. Iewels pretensed Iustification of certaine Vntruthes of the Apologie with the Confutation of the same M. Ievvel the apologie Paâ—â—â—â— cap. 4. Diuis 2. The Councel of Carthage saith he prouided that no â—isshop should be called either the highest Bisshop or the chief Priest Vntruthes noted out of the Apologie The first Vntruth To this he forgeth an Answer in my name and addeth vnto it suche woordes as whereby he thought to set forth vnto his reader a shewe of some lightnes of my parte whereas I answer him in deede otherwise as it may be sene in my Confutation part 2. cap. 4. fol. 53. c. For answer this may be here and is in effecte said there Whereas the Apologie hath thus Also the Councel of Carthage did expressely prouide that no Bishop should be called either the highest Bishop or chiefe Priest To this I saie that it is false and that the Councel of Carthage hath not so but otherwise It speaketh of Primates only and not generally of al Bishops and as it appeareth of the Primates only of Afrike And therefore the Bishop of Rome by that Councel is not depriued of his auncient Title of Summus Sacerdos This is more largely declared in my Confutation in the place aboue coted To this M. Iewel maketh his Replie in this wise The wordes of the Councel alleged by Gratian are these Primasedis Episcopus M. Ievvel allegeth Gratians vvordes for the vvordes of the Councel of Charthage non apelletur Princeps Sacerdotum vel Summus Sacerdos vel aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae Sedis Episcopus Vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Why doo you allege Gratian M. Iewel whereas you might allege the Councel it selfe from whence Gratian tooke these wordes And so you founde the place thus coted in the end of the Chapter before Distin 99 Prouincia Item ex Concilio Africanâ— 3. ca. 26. By this your shamelesse falshood appeareth For if ye had gonne vnto that Councel it selfe ye should not haue found these wordes at al neither in the Greeke for it is extant in Greeke nor in the Latine these wordes I say Vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Which are no more a parte of that .26 Canon of the third Africane Councel then those other wordes are there likewise folowing immediatly Vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis They are put in by Gratian him selfe whereby as his manner is he fortelleth the reader what foloweth in the next chapter So this Vntruth is doubled with an other Vntruth and remaineth to M. Iewel as that to whiche he shal neuer be hable to answere Of this I shal haue occasion to treate more at large hereafter I wish the Reader for a further discouer of M. Iewels falshoode to peruse what there I shal saie M. Ievvel Apologie part 2. cap. 12. Item Calixtus saith he decreed The .2 Vntruth that Consecration being finished al the people should communicate c. To this I answer that it was the Decree not of Calixtus but of Anacletus and that the request of receiuing the coÌ„munion the CoÌ„secration being done perteined to the Priestes Deacons Subdeacons and other Clerkes attending vpon the Bishop celebrating the Sacrifice vpon a Solemne Feast and not vnto al the people Howbeit that the people did then commonly receiue euery daie whiche
might receiue the blessed Sacramēt of the body of Christe except they were stubborne and would not obey the sentence But sometimes in the Canons to be deposed signifieth Dicto Can. Apost 25. to be depriued of Ecclesiastical liuinges or to be suspended from execution of holy orders for a time Howbeit it is not oft so takē but in the two significations aforesaid for depositiō frō holy Orders by sentēce or for Degradatiō And no marueile though the old Canōs of the Apostles and decrees of auncient Fathers did so greuously pounish the Clergie for fornicatiō theaft periurie and other mortal sins For in the primitiue Church whē the Sūne of Iustice was vp at mid day and deuotiō hote sin was so much abhorred and pounished that to the very laie people that were Christians seuen yeres penance was wonte to be enioined and decreed by the lawe for euery mortal sinne C. hoc ipsū 33. q. 2. c. praedicādum in Glosa 22. q. 1. Distin 34. C. fraternitatis Ita decretum est in Concilio Laodicēsi Item in Carthaginensi 3. in 8. synodo vt in Gratiano .c. his qui cum 4. ca. ibi sequēt 26. q. 7. c. mensurā de poenitē dist 1. C. prasbyter 82. dis But in processe of time as the Deuotion and heate of Christian zeale decreased and the multitude of sinnes and sinners increased so these streight pounishementes and penances were mitigated For as Pope Pelagius saith Quamuis multa sint quae obseruari Canonicae iubet sublimitatis authoritas tamen defectus nostri temporis quo non solùm merita sed corpora ipsa hominum defecerunt districtionis illius non patitur manere censuram Although there be many thinges whiche the high authoritie of the Canons commaundeth to be obserued yet the defecte of our time is suche in whiche not onely the merites but also the very bodies of men be decaied that it wil not beare the censure of that olde streightnes to continue in force Therefore al penance in secrete Confession was at length referred to the arbitriment and iudgement of the glostly Father who should consider the contrite harte of the sinner and his weaknes and other circunstances and so enioine him suche penance as he thought sufficient And also withal this open pounishement of deposition for the open sinne of fornication in a Clerke was in Concilio Grangrensi changed into ten yeres penance to be performed after a very streight and austere māner and forme as that Councel prescribeth Which is so streight that if it were obserued now adaies M. Iewel should haue no cause to cōplaine that the Canons did fauourably or to gently pounish fornication in the Clergie But though euery man ought to doo the best he can to doo satisfaction and to repente of his sinnes before God yet in the open gouernement and publike rule and policie of the world the lawe must be such and appoint such thinges as may be obteined and obserued of men and as the people and time beareth els it wil be quite contēned and trodden doune and be neuer a whit obserued The Ciuil lawe doth pounish adulterie with death L. Gracchus C. de adult but we see the cōtrarie now euery where Yea it can not be established now in many Countries such is the state of the time and people Toto tit de cohab cler et mulier extra Therfore if the later Canons doo not so seuerely pounish fornication in the Clergie as the old Canons did we must rather beare it and lament it then be offended with it and reprehend it For such is the state of the time and the worlde that you maie rather wishe then establish to any good effect the rigour of the olde lawes and statutes both in ciuil and ecclesiastical rule But you shal neuer proue that the Churche winked at fornication in the clergie or that it did not the best it could at al times and now doth to extirpate this vice in euery sorte and degree of menne and especially in the Clergie as farre as possiblie it maie be and no farther For suche gouernement as can not take place in common weales we wil leaue to M. Iewel and his companions who go about with double brasen Canons and not by ecclesiastical Canōs to reforme the world as now in Fraunce it appeareth Looke and consider Concil Tridēt Sessio 25. c. 14. in decret reformat what the Councel of Trent lately decreed against vicious and lewde Priestes that defile them selues with wemen and keepe concubines and you shal wel perceiue the Church doth al that maie be as the time now serueth to pounish and extirpate that foule faulte out of the Clergie which your Bishoppes and ministers in England maintaine openly keping in the face of the worlde their strompettes vnder the name of wiues contrarie to their othes vowes and solemne professions made to God and to the world and yet are they not ashamed to laie the mainteinance of this vice to the Catholiques charge Yea some of them be openly knowen that wil not sticke to come from vnlawful beddes yea from other mennes wiues and like sad prophetes steppe into the pulpites and there raile at the vnchaste life of Priestes and Votaries as they cal them M. Ievvel The Apologie parte 6. cap. 14. Diuis 1. The 10. vntruthe In the Councel of Chalcedon the Ciuile Magistrate condēned by sentence of his owne mouth three Bishoppes Dioscerus Iuuenalis and Thalassius for heretiques and gaue iudgement that they should be deposed That al these three saie I were condemned in that Councel we finde not Much lesse that they were condemned by any Ciuile Magistrate for Heresie doo we finde Confut. 315. b. Reade what foloweth in my Confutation To this M. Iewel maketh his Replie saying Concilij Chalcedō Actione 1. pag. 831. These be the wordes pronounced openly in the Councel Videtur nobis iustum esse eidem poenae Dioscorum Reuerendū Episcopum Alexandriae Iuuenalem reuerendum episcopum Hierosolymorum Thalassium reuerendum episcopum Caesariae Cappadociae subiacere a sancto Concilio secundùm regulas See the Defence pag. 683. ab episcopali dignitate fieri alienos That Dioscorus onely vvas condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon and that not by the Ciuile Magistrate but by the Bisshoppes This testimonie M. Iewel helpeth you nothing at al. Nay let it be truly englished and duely considered with the circumstance and it shal appeare to be quite against you and al together with vs. And therefore craftily in this place ye forbare to put it in English It semeth you sawe not the place in the Original but that you trusted your note booke For they were not only these three Bishops of whom it was thought iuste that they should be condēned but also three others for sixe there be spoken of by name For breuities sake Concil Chalcedō Actio 1. pag. 831. colum 2. certaine wordes of lesse weight without altering of
the true sense leaft out thus I reporte you truly the wordes of the Councel of Chalcedon The honorable Iudges and Senatours said For asmuche as Flauianus of holy memorie and the reuerend Bishop Eusebius are found vniustly deposed it seemeth vnto vs good right that Dioscorus Bishop of Alexandria Iuuenalis Bishop of Ierusalem Thalassius B. of Caesarea in Cappadocia Eusebius B. of Ancyra Eustathius B. of Berytus and Basilius B. of Seleucia in Isauria who were the Captaines and rulers of that Councel at Ephesus where Flauianus and Eusebius were vniustly deposed should suffer the same pounishment à sancto Cancilio secuÌ„dùm regulas ab Episcopali dignitate fieri alienos asmuche to saie and that they should be put out of their bishoply dignitie by the holy Councel according vnto the Canons This is no sentence in iudgement pronounced against Dioscorus and the reste as M. Iewel taketh it Those noble laie men said what to them seemed iuste and right but by these wordes they gaue not sentence of condemnation or deposition They leaue that vnto the Councel by expresse wordes A sentence definitiue in iudgement standeth not in these or the like wordes it semeth to me or I think it good c But in these or the like I pronounce I condemne I â—bsolue c. The sentence of Dioscorus condemnation for he only was coÌ„demned al the other bishops were pardoned was solemnely pronounced in the Councel by Pope Leos Legates in the name and stede of the Pope Which thing I haue sufficiently set forth in my ConfutatioÌ„ Confutat pag. 316. where thou shalt finde Reader the sentence of condemnation expressed in English worde for worde as it was pronounced in the Councel And that very sentence is in the Councel Tomo 1. Concil Chalcedon Actione 3. pag. 8. Columna 2. Againe with what face could M. Iewel allege these wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Euagrius lib. 2. ca. 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idem lib. 2. cap. 17. to proue that the Bishoppes were condemned by the Ciuile magistrate whereas those noble menne them selues said the contrarie that they iudged it right they should be depriued of their bishoply dignitie not by them or by their sentence but à sancto Concilio of or by the holy Councel and that according vnto the auncient Canons of the Churche Which wordes he might also haue founde fully reported in Euagrius in two sundrie places that there was no cause why he should so coÌ„fideÌ„tly tel me of the one of those places as he doth in the Defence pa. 683. Dioscorus deposed not by the Ciuil Magistrate but by the Councel of Chalcedon Act. 3. pag. 862. After that Dioscorus was condemned by sentence of Pope Leos Legates and consequently by al the bishoppes assembled in the Councel there was a solemne InstrumeÌ„t of his condemnatioÌ„ made and sent vnto him Where these wordes are by which it is cleare that the Councel condemned him and not the Ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouthe as M. Iewel vntruly reporteth Cognosce te ipsum propterea quòd diuinos Canones despexisti inobediens extitisti huic sancto vniuersali Concilio c. Octobris mensis praesentis tertiâ— decimo die à sancto vniuersali Concilio esse ab episcopatu depositum ab omni Ecclesiastica fanctione submotum Bicause thou hast despised the holy Canons and hast benne disobedient vnto this holy and vniuersal Councel c. know thou that in the thirteenth daie of this present moneth of October thou art by the holy and vniuersal Councel deposed from thy Bishoprike and remoued from al Ecclesiastical function Lo M. Iewel al this was done not by the Ciuile Magistrate but by the Councel As for the Ciuile Magistrate to whom your Gospel committeth al by report of that Councel is so farre from condemning Bishoppes by sentence of his owne mouth that he may not so much as be present at the examinations in such a case Aske ye of me how I proue it Looke in that Councel and ye shal finde these very woordes Quando quaedam regularia examinantur neque Iudices Act. 3. pag. 838. colum 2. neque alios aliquos Laicos interesse oportet When certaine regulare matters that is to say touching the Canons or rules of life are in examination neither Iudges nor other laie menne must be present And as concerning the condemnation of Dioscorus when it was done or rather when it was a doing neither Martianus the Emperour nor his officers knew of it For said the Iudges and senatours vnto the Bishops in that Councel Actio 4. Pag. 872. colum 1. Dioscorus à vobis damnatus est ignorante Diuo Vertice nobis Dioscorus hath benne condemned of you without the knowledge of the Emperours Maiestie and of vs. Now if he had benne condemned by the ciuile officers I trow M. Iewel wil not say that they knew it not For if they condemned him they knew it But they knew it not The fiue other Bishops not coÌ„deÌ„ned when he was condemned ergo they did not condemne him Now touching the other fiue Bishoppes who with Dioscorus bare al the swaie in that wicked Councel of Ephesus of whom Iuuenalis was one and Thalassius an other It appeareth by the Councel of Chalcedon that they repented and reuoked their errour and so vpon sute made by the Bishoppes for them were admitted into the Councel and suffred to continue in their former roumes After the condemnation of Dioscorus and signification openly and solemnely made that al the Bishops agreed together in beleefe and after they had al subscribed to Dioscorus condemnation among other ioiful acclamations that were made according to the auncient manner this was one Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere not condeÌ„ned In the CouÌ„cel of ChalcedoÌ„ Actione 4 pag. 872. colum 2. vttered by the Bishoppes Ipsi quinque Episcopi fidei subscripserunt Sicut Leo sic sapiunt The fiue Bishoppes them selues haue subscribed to the faith As Leo the pope thinketh and holdeth so they thinke and hold Hereupon the noble Iudges and Senatours said Piissimus noster Imperator c. Our most godly Emperour vnderstanding your petitions hath permitted vnto your arbitrement to deliberate of Iuuenalis Thalassius Eusebius Basilius and Eustachius the reuerend Bishoppes and to determine what soeuer it shal please you Your reuerence therfore knowing that ye haue to make accompt vnto God of these thinges thinke with your selues what is to be done with them Then Anatholius the reuerend B. of Constantinople said Petimus eos intrare Our request is that they may entre into the Councel Then al the Bishoppes cried rogamus eos intrare c. we praie that they maie come in who beleeue like as the synode beleeueth and holde as the synode holdeth Assint qui subscripserunt epistolae Leonis ad Synodum Let them be here that haue subscribed vnto the Epistle that Leo sent vnto the Synode The Iudges and Senatours said IntreÌ„t Let theÌ„ come
iudgement and minde touching obedience to princes and that in a booke dedicated and offred to be read euen of the Quenes Maiestie her selfe Confut. 15. a. Among other thinges thus I saie in my Confutation of the Apologie It standeth not with Goddes promises made to the Church touching his being with the Church al daies to the worldes ende and the holy Ghostes remaining with it Math. 28. Iohan. 14. the spirite of Truthe for euer that he should suffer his Churche to continewe in Darkenes and lacke of Truthe these thousand yeres past and now at the later daies to reuele the truthe of his Gospel by Apostates Vowebreakers Churcherobbers and suche others most vnlike to the Apostles Hereunto thus answereth M. Iewel Iewel pag. 32. You saie it standeth not vvith Gods promise to forsake his Churche a thousand yeres It is muche for you M. Harding openly to breake Gods cōmaundementes to defile his holy Sanctuarie to turne light into Darckenesse and Darckenesse into light and yet neuerthelesse to binde him too his promise Harding Goddes promise being infallible the Churche neuer erreth Se◠good Reader The. 7. Chapt. how absurdely and wretchedly M. Iewel answereth to this most euident and inuincible argument taken out of holy scripture I reason thus God promiseth he wil neuer Math. 28. no not one daie forsake his Churche Ergo if he forsooke it a thousand yeres as these menne tel vs he broke his promise M. Iewel answereth by a lewde kinde of Sophistrie called Petitio principij Petitio Principij that is the bringing forthe for proufe the thing it selfe whiche he ought to proue and whiche chiefely lieth in question and whiche wil neuer be graunted bicause it can neuer be proued That thing I saie he bringeth forth for a proufe and procedeth thereupon as vpon a matter vndoubted and graunted You M. Harding saith he haue broken Gods commaundementes you haue defiled his holy Sanctuarie c. Ergo you ought not to binde God to his promise This Antecedent or former proposition is the thing whiche he shoulde specially haue proued and then in Gods name he might thereof haue cōcluded what he coulde Now to bring it for proufe it selfe in respecte of true doctrine being most in question and vtterly denied by vs it is a lewde kinde of reasoning Againe beholde good Reader how he ouerturneth the Argument taken out of Gods worde I reason thus God hath promised his Churche should neuer erre Ergo it hath not erred these thousand yeres past he answereth The Church by our defaulte hath erred For we saith he haue turned light into Darckenesse c. Ergo God was not bounde to his promise What meane you M. Iewel As though God promising that his Churche should not erre prouided not also suche meanes whereby to preserue it from errour As though Gods promise depended of vs and of our wel doing As though any power of man or the worlde were hable to frustrate Gods promise As though if any suche power should haue come as you imagine the Popes power to haue darckened Christes Gospel Christe could not or would not haue foresene it or foreseing it would yet notwithstanding promise that Al daies he would be with his Churche Math. 28. Esaie 59. Iohn 14. and againe that the spirite of Truthe should assiste it for euer Thinke you M. Iewel that Christe our Sauiour forsawe not the Ruine or Darckenesse of his Churche of whiche so blasphemously you affirme Or thinke you that foreseing such an vniuersal Darckenesse to come and that for the space of so many hundred yeres together he would neuerthelesse haue said The Churches errour of a thousand yeres and the foreknovvledge of Christ can not stand together onlesse vve make Christe false of his promise as he said and haue so assuredly promised vnto his Apostles and in them vnto their Successours the perpetual assistance of the holy Ghoste the spirite of truthe with his Churche How could suche foreknowledge of Christe and suche a promise stand together Choose M. Iewel which you wil. The one of these you must of necessitie graunte that either Christe forsawe not the great Darckenesse to come whiche you saie you doo see and so you see more then Christe God and man euer sawe or foresawe or that Christe promised one thing and intended to performe an other thing He promised Al daies and for euer but intended to performe only fiue hundred yeres at the beginning and after the leape of a thousand yeres to graunte certaine yeres moe God knoweth how many O haynous blasphemie whereby Christe the Sonne of God the wisdome of his Father is proued either to haue ben ignorant of that whiche Protestantes knowe or elles to haue ben false of his promise But what neede many wordes M. Iewel him selfe immediatly after his former wordes to his owne condemnation saith Al menne be liers but God only is true Psal 50. 2. Tim. 2. and preuaileth when he is iudged God knoweth his owne Christe wil be euermore with his Churche That the light of truth hath not ben put out in the Churche yea although the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him Al this is true and the same doth euidently condemne you and your Religion Al menne be liers Protestantes for example whiche saie that these thousand yeres the Church hath ben corrupted and light hath ben turned into Darknesse God only is true Christes worde is true the Light of faith hath not benne turned into Darckenesse these thousand yeres nor any one yere at al onlesse Darckenesse and the Spirite of truth maie dwel together God knoweth his owne The Churche is his therefore he knoweth his Churche And bicause it is built vpon a hil it is euer sene and is neuer vnknowen Math. 5. Math. vlt. Christe wil be euermore with his Churche But with your Congregation or Synagog how shal I cal it he hath not ben these many hundred yeres for you saie in your Apologie The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres and in this your Defence you saie againe that when Doctour Luther beganne to Publish the Gospel of Christe there was a general quietnesse suche as is in the night when folke be a sleepe c. Ergo your companie is not the Churche Let vs see vvhat you can ansvver to this argumēt M. Ievv Marke the Argument I require you and auoide it if you be hable To repete it once againe thus we saie Christe promiseth euermore to be with his Churche but Christe hath not ben euer more with you and your fellowes Ergo you and your fellowes are not the Churche The maior is true not only bicause it is Christes promise but also by your owne Confession The minor you confesse also in your Apologie it resteth ye discharge your selfe of the Conclusion Touching the minor the Pope you saie blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres Then in those so many hundred yeres no man saw the light where then were they
yours as the Arians had the names of that of Ariminum and certaine other Councelles holden by the Arians Your heresies God be praised haue not yet prospered so much that ye might haue hundreds of Bishoppes to assemble and determine on your side as the Arians had Therefore againe your case is very vnlike and your example of S. Augustine and the Arian very vneuen When you haue Councelles on your fitlâ— that shal make for the proufe of your Doctrine and for condemnation of our Doctrine then maye this place of S. Augustine seeme to serue your purpose Last of al your accustomed legierdemaine in citing this place openeth your falshood For in the sentence immediatly going before the wordes by you alleged S. Augustine professeth plainely the authoritie of the Nicene Councel to haue ben sufficient for conuincing of the Arian heretike Thus he saith Hoc est illud Homusion Lib. 3. ca. 14. contra MaximinuÌ„ ArianuÌ„ quod in Concilio Niceno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis patribus veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est This is that Doctrine concerning Homusion whiche in the Councel of Nice was confirmed against the Arian heretiques with the Authoritie of Truthe and with the Truthe of Authoritie S. Augugustine falsly alleged by M. Ievv vvordes of chiefe importaÌ„ce quite lefte out Sed nunc Streight after it foloweth Sed nunc nec ega c. But now at this present neither wil I laye against thee c. as before you alleged it These wordes Sed nunc But nowe whiche importe the doing of S. Augustine to haue ben but for that present time and occasion and doo shewe that he meant not generally to renounce the Nicene Councel those wordes I saie M. Iewel you quite leafte out alleging S. Augustines wordes in such sorte as if he had peremptorily and precisely protested that the Arian had ben no more bounde to the Authoritie of the Nicene Councel then he him selfe was bounde to the Councel of Ariminum Whereas both before he plainely protested that the Catholike Fathers of the Nicene Councel had determined against the Arian heretiques veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate By authoritie of Truth and by truthe of Authoritie and also in this later saying restrained him selfe only to the time present for cause beforâ— mencioned O how would that blessed Father be agreeued if now he were a liue and sawe his sayinges so peruersly wrested to a sense by him neuer meant nor intended and that drawen to mainetenance of heresie wherein he relented for better meanes to be had towardes the Confutation of heresie In what credite and estimation S. Augustine had General Councelles The 20. Chapt. Howbeit this blessed Father touching the credite and authoritie of lawful Councelles not only in this present place as it now appeareth but also in others of his workes hath written so circumspectly and warely that excepte heretiques were of very purpose and mere wilfulnesse sette to peruerte the truthe they coulde neuer haue piked out of his sayinges so muche as any colour of aduantage to the preiudice of Councelles Contrarywise to the aduauncement of their credite and estimation he writeth in sundry places Verely to the Donatistes being confuted and conuinced by a great Assemblie of the Aphrican Bishoppes August epist 152. Ad populuÌ„ factionis Donatiaâ—a he saith Nulla excusatio iam remansit Nimium dura nimium diabolica sunt hominum corda quae adhuc tantae manifestationi veritatis obsistunt There remaineth now no excuse The hartes of menne are too too harde and too too deuilish whiche doo yet withstande the truth so clearely opened vnto them How much better may we saie this vnto you and your companions M. Iewel whose heresies haue ben detected and learnedly confuted in the late General Councel of Trent vnto the whiche out of al Catholique Countries of Christendome Bishopes and the best learned menne were assembled Againe disputing against the errour of S. Cyprian touching the rebaptizing of such as heretiques had baptized in the ende he concludeth with the Authoritie of a General Councel and protesteth that he him selfe would not haue ben so bolde as in such sorte to confute that holy Fathers opinion excepte he had had the General Councel on his side These are his wordes August de Baptismo coÌ„tra Donatist li. 2. cap. 4. Nec nos ipsi tale aliquid auderemus asserere nisi vniuersae Ecclesiae concordissima authoritate firmati cui ipse sine dubio cederet si iam illo tempore quaestionis huius veritas eliquata declarata per plenarium ConciliuÌ„ solidaretur Neither should we be so bolde as to affirme so much but that we are assuredly vpholden with the authoritie of the most vniforme consent of the vniuersal Church To the which S. Cyprian him selfe would vndoubtedly haue yeelded if at that time the truth of this question being boulted out and made cleare had benne by a ful general Councel established In like manner he vrgeth the Pelagians saying August CoÌ„tra Iulianum .li. 3. cap. 1. Vestra verò apud competens Iudicium communiuÌ„ episcoporum causa modò finita est Nec amplius vobiscuÌ„ agenduÌ„ est quantuÌ„ ad ius examinis pertinet nisi vt prolataÌ„ de hac re sententiaÌ„ cuÌ„ pace sequamini Quòd si nolueritis a turbulenta vel seditiosa inquietudine cohibeamini Your matter is now ended by sufficient iudgemeÌ„t of Bishops from al partes Neither ought we now to haue further dealing with you as touching right of examination to be made but now it behoueth that yâ— folowe peacebly the verdite whiche hath 〈◊〉 pronounced of this matter And if ye wil not yet that ye be restrained from al troblesome and seditious disorder August Epist 118. ad Ianuarium Last of al speaking of General Councelles he saith Quorum est in Ecclesia saluberrima authoritas their Authoritie in the Churche is most holsome And bicause M. Iewel findeth him selfe agreeued witâ— the later Councelles and is offended with the newnesse of them and claimeth by former Councels and preteÌ„deth to folow the Apostles owne Traditions let vs see what S. Augustine of whom he would so faine borow helpe if it would be wil saie for him Whereas the Donatistes for their rebaptizing of such as the Catholiques had baptized alleged th' Apostles Tradition and neglected a late General CouÌ„cel assembled against their opinion holding vpon a more auncient Tradition euen such as came from the Apostles to them in this case S. Augustine saith thus Nec quisquam dicat August li. 4. cap. 7. de Baptis coÌ„tra Donatistas quod accepimus ab Apostolis hoc sequimur Quatò robustiuo nuÌ„c dicimus Quod ecclesiae coÌ„suetudo semper tenuit quod haec disputatio dissuadere noÌ„ potuit et quod plenariuÌ„ Concilium coÌ„firmauit hoc sequimur Neither let any man saie as the Donatistes said and as Protestantes now saie we folowe that which we haue
receiued of the Apostles Howe muche more stronger is that we saie now we folowe that which the Custome of the Church hath euermore holden whiche al this reasoning to and fro hath not ben able to plucke out of mens hartes and last of al which a ful General Councel hath confirmed So highly esteemed S. Augustine those things August li. 2. de Baptisme cap. 9. which M. Iewel of al other maketh lest accompt of And againe he saieth Concilia posteriora prioribus apud posterâ—s praepâ—nuntur Later CouÌ„cels preferred before the former for what cause The posteritie preferreth the Later Councelles before the Former Not as though the later should be contrarie to the former but bicause in the later CouÌ„cels the Church is alwaies better instructed through the contradictions of heretikes by occasion whereof matters are more exactely searched discussed and more clearely opened Like as the flint stoanes being knokte harde together fier flieth out and corne the more ye fifte it the purer it is tried so truthe by our aduersaries Contradictions is beaten out and doubteful pointes by long discussion and search are made plaine and cleare Therefore againe he saith Ibidem .li. 2. cap. 3. Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepe priora posterioribus emendantur cúm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum erat cognoscitur quod latebat The very former general Councells are oftentimes corrected by the later Councells when as by some trial of maâ—â—er that thing is opened whiche before was close shut vp and that is knowen whiche before laie hid Yeâ— and this is the chiefe and best fruite The benefit and fruite of heresies August in Psal 54. super versum Diuisi sunt prae ira c. that heresies bring vnto the Churche as the same S. Augustine otherwhere declareth where he saith The matter of the blessed Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil the Arianâ— barked against it The Sacrament of Penaunce was neuer throughly handled vntil the Nouatians beganne to withstande it Neither the cause of Baptisme was wel discussed vntil the rebaptizing Donatistes arose and troubled the Churche Thus M. Iewel if you geue eare vnto S. Augustine whose example you seeme to claime by you shal learne of him not to refuse and renounce the authoritie of General Councels but to obey them and to yeeld dew reuerence vnto them yea though they be later and as you cal them new Truth draue M. Iewel to iustifie al our Doctrine wherein he dissenteth from vs. The 21. Chap. This oddes therefore remaineth betwen you and vs that our doctrine yea euery pointe thereof in cotrouersie now is by your owne confession approued by the later General Councelles and so we defende no doctrine of our owne nor mainteine any prophane Nouelties of our owne deuise but we folowe Saluberrimam authoritatem the most holesome and sounde authoritie as S. Augustine termeth it of General Councels that is to saie we folowe the voice of the whole bodie of Christes Churche most truely represented in Councelles the voice of Christes spouse yea the voice of Christe him selfe speaking to vs by his Churche and so speaking that he willeth him whiche heareth not the Churche to be accompted for a Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publicane Contrariewise your Doctrine M. Iewel is not only not authorized in General Councelles but also is clearely condemned by the same as for example that one maie serue in steede of many the General Councel of Laterane condemneth your Sacramentarie heresie Yet we thanke not you but the truthe that you haue this muche confessed for vs. And as S. Augustine said of the Donatistes so we saie most truely of you Vt illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent Aug. contra Donatist post collat ca. 34. veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit That the Donatistes shoulde vtter and bring forthe either by talke or by allegation out of a booke al those thinges for behoofe of our matter the truth forced them it was not any charitie that inuited them The truthe I saie M. Iewel not any loue you beare to our cause forced you to confesse that there is none of our errours so you terme sundry weightie pointes of the Catholike Faith that by some of the late Councelles hath not benne confirmed We take that you geue vs right gladly in asmuch as it declareth you to be conuinced by witnesse of your owne mouthe For if the pointes of Faith and Religion wherein ye dissent from vs be approued and confirmed by authoritie of the Churche in General Councelles who seeth not what a good staffe we haue to leane vnto And who is that Christian man whiche wil not humbly beleue the same The Thirde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders c. vttered by M. Iewel in the second parte of his pretensed Defence Iewel Pag. 88. VVhere ye fantasie that the Bodie of Christe in the Sacramente hath in it selfe neither Fourme nor Proportion nor Limitation of place nor Distinction of partes S. Augustine telleth you Spatia locorum tolle c. Take awaie from Bodies Limitation of place and the Bodies wil be no where Augu. ad DardanuÌ„ epist 57. And bicause they be nowhere they wil be nothing Take awaie from Bodies the qualities of Bodies there wil be no place for them to be in and therefore the same Bodies muste needes be no Bodies at al. Hereof vve maie conclude that the Bodie of Christe vvhich you haue imagined to be contiened grosly and carnally in the Sacrament for as much as by your ovvne confession it hath neither Qualitie nor Quantitie nor Fourme nor place nor proportiâ—â— of Bodie therefore by S. Augustines doctrine it is no Bodie Harding Answer to the Obiection made out of S. Augustine to Dardanus against the real presence of Christes Bodie in the Blessed Sacrament The. 1. Chapt. THE great confidence you haue in S. Augustines two sayinges in his 57. Epistle to Dardanus may much better serue your turne to skirmish with Brentius a Master of youres Brentius the autor of the heresie of the Vbi quetaries and a graund Captaine emong the Lutherans who spareth not by publique write to teache the world that Christes Humanitie is euerie where as his Diuinitie is then against the Catholique doctrine of Christes Bodily presence in the Blessed Sacrament wherein no suche errour is allowed that Christes humanitie should be euery where with his Godhead but it is auouched that Christe by his omnipotent power doth make his Bodie present in as many places as the Blessed Sacrament is duely Natural qualities suspeÌ„ded from Bodies by Goddes special povver Exod. 3. Daniel 3. Exod. 14. and rightly consecrated You are not ignorant M. Iewel but that you know that God by his special power hath suspended from diuers sortes of Bodies sundrie natural Qualities as he did suspende the action of burning from the Fire as wel in the
signification whiche he wil appointe and not for that whiche aggreeth best with the right meaning of the Authours minde No doubte Fulgentius neuer meant to take the terme Fourme in suche a signification that shoulde exclude Christes bodily Presence from the blessed Sacrament in the doing whereof he should haue benne contrarie both to him selfe Termes that haue diuers significations are not to be taken at pleasure but according to the Tradition and to the Faith of the Catholique Churche at that time vniuersally confessed Looke in the Scriptures there shal you finde diuers Termes that haue many significations If Heretiques might haue the libertie that M. Iewel claimeth to appointe in euery place where any suche Terme is vsed what signification the same must haue they might easily ouerthrowe al the groundes of our Faithe The Article of the Resurrection of our flesâ—â— were quite abolished 1. Cor. 15. bicause it is written Carâ— sanguiâ— regnum Dei non possidebunt Fleshe and bloude shal not possesse the kingdome of God Rom. 8. Againe Qui in carne sunt Deo placere non possunt they who are in fleshe can not please God In these places and suche others if fleshe and bloude should be taken for the substance and not for the vicious motions and filthie actes that rise out of the fleshe no man should be saued no fleshe should be partaker of eternal life contrarie to holy Iobs Confession and beleefe Iob. 19. who said Et in carne mea videbo Deum And in myne owne Fleshe I shal see God Where Fleshe is taken for the Substance and not for the corruption of the Fleshe Psal 83. Cor meum caro mea exultauerunt in Deum viuum My harte and my fleshe reioised in the liuing God Verbum Caro factum est Ioan. 1. the worde was made fleshe Where Fleshe is taken for the Substance If then any Heretique would be so frowarde as arrogantly to stand in Defence that as Fleshe is taken in these later places for the substance euen so it must be taken in the former as M. Iewel plaieth for the signification of this terme Fourme Where were the Resurrection of our fleshe to life eternal Yea where were our Saluation Where were our Faithe 1. Cor. 15. Inanis esset fides vestra inanis praedicatio nostra Your faith were voide our preaching also were voide saith S. Paule Infinite suche places might be brought of Termes that haue many significations whose signification for euery place if M. Iewel had ful authoritie to appointe at his pleasure to serue best his owne turne our Faith woulde soone be quite ouerthrowen For very shame lette M. Iewel from henceforthe leaue dallying in matters of Faith by Equiuocation of Termes The Counterfeit personage he beareth should put him in minde of more sadnesse honestie and plainer dealing Be it that the Ladie Interpreter The Ladie Interpreter Pag. 89. whome you doo praise so muche be of suche learning vertue and grauitie yea hable to ouermatche your selfe also if you putte not on your saddest countenance yet shal you alwaie finde her giltie of vnwomanly Presumption either in translating that whiche she vnderstoode not or if she vnderstoode it in that she stepte a wrye for the nonce vsing one signification of the worde when the author meaneth the other In which case I might with more reason and right reprehend her not onely of Presumption but also of Malice in that she woulde deceiue the ignorant Reader then you might reprehende the lacke of manly Modestie in me in warning the Reader to take heede An impudent and filthy corruption and falsifying of the wordes of the Confutation VVil ye see hovv this man dissembleth a faulte Iewel Pag. 89. I vvil not here tel you M. Harding hovv lovvdely you haue demeaned your selfe tovvardes her vvhom it liketh you so often and so scornefully to cal the Lady Interpreter c. I beseeche you cal your vvordes againe to minde if you can vvithout blushing So roughly to handle so softe a creature This Phrase of speeche your very frendes haue mutche misliked and as it is in deede so in Plaine vvordes they cal it Ruffianrie a vertue although matche agreable vnto your profession yet vnmeete for a man either of learning or of sober vvisedome But this faulte emong many others as I haue said I vvil dissemble Harding M. Iewelles impudencie and Ruffianly corruption detected The .2 Chapt. You wil not here tel me you saie how lewdely I haue demeaned my selfe towardes my Lady A. B. what shal I cal her For the name of my Lady Interpreter liketh you not Yea God knoweth suche Charitie is suddeinly blowen vpon this man that if he knew any lewde faulte in me he woulde conceele it and spare my honestie I beseeche God so to keepe me by his grace from sinne and shame as I were sure by him bothe in bookes and pulpites to be proclaimed lewde and vnhonest if he knewe any lewde or vnhonest acte done by me And whereas you pretende you wil not tel me ye tel al and more then al. But tel on in Goddes name M. Iewel and saue your belly from bursting saie the worst ye can if you can saie any thing without a lye Marke Reader hovv this RuffiaÌ„rie is proued As for this Ruffianrie wherewith you charge me il be he thought of that il thinketh In good sooth before you wrote these impure wordes I did not so muche as once thinke of the Filth which your filthy penne ruled by commaundement of your filthy harte hath here most filthily vttered God be thanked that your Searchers and Promotours haue not mette with al the Bookes of my Confutation of your Apologie There the Reader shal finde these very wordes whereby your malice Confutat fol. 41 a. and impudencie maie appeare to al the worlde Confutation Whether I maie charge her with so hainous a crime of a falsifyed translation or no I doubte Perhaps as she passeth the boundes of womanly state in presuming to medle so farre in these perilous matters allowed now by a fewe of the newe Englishe Churche and disallowed alwaies by the whole auncient Churche of Christendome if the translation be hers and not an others set forth in her name so maie I seeme to forgete courtesie thus roughly to blame so softe a creature What Ruffianrie M. Iewel can you finde in these wordes of mine Why shoulde any frende of myne mislike this Phrase of speache Why maie not I cal them to minde without any blushing at al In deede as you haue falsly reported them altering one worde for an other whereas I wrote I maie seeme to forgete courtesie thus roughly to blame so softe a creature your false reporte being so roughly to handle so softe a creature in phantasiastical headdes and vncleane imaginations it might breede an opinion of some vnchaste meaning But if your Euangelical sinceritie could haue suffred my wordes to stande as they were by me
written if you had not changed the honest worde blame whiche I vsed The honeste vvorde blame by M. Ievvel charged into the filthy vvorde handle into the worde of vnhonest meaning handle whiche you would haue men beleeue that I vsed how should there haue risen of my wordes any opinion of il meaning Verely M. Iewel in your alteration of my wordes and placing in the steede of the worde blame the worde handle that seemed to you to serue better for your filthy purpose to disgrace myne honestie if you coulde there appeareth an euident argument both of false and also of malicious dealing Your very frendes must needes mislike with you if they haue any honestie for this your vnhonest handling You are neuer hable to auoide it cast vpon it what colours you can What woulde you sticke to speake of me were I dead that are not ashamed thus to belie me being a liue and occupied in shewing to the worlde with what impudent lyes ye blotte your papers Yet of al your foule shiftes this is one of the fowlest and such as in common persons is called you know what I am a shamed to speake it you are not a shamed to plaie the parte The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Pag. 90. VVe beleeue that the holy Ghost vvho is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not created not begotten but proceding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto man and vnspeakeable c. Confutation Cōfut fol. 41. b As we acknowledge this article to be true and Catholike so we demaunde of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most authoritie We are sure they haue not Therfore we doo them to vnderstand that if they heare vs not we aduertise the Readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truthe necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other Councelles be to be receiued besides the foure firste whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * Left out by M. Ievvel as that wherein this point touching the Proceding of the holy Ghoste hath benne defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Church when vpon a new doubte rising an olde Truthe is by later publications declared c. * Iewel Pag. 90. Consider M. Harding notvvithstanding ye euermore tel vs of Fathers Fathers yet hovv contrary oftentimes ye are in iudgement to the same Fathers You saie that the Godhed of the holy Ghoste can not be proued by expresse vvordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye say ye are right sure Harding That M. Iewel is not able to proue by Scripture certaine truthes whiche with the Catholiques he teacheth touching the holy Ghoste What folie is in frowardnesse The. 3. Chapt. it appeareth by M. Iewels trauaile to proue the Godhed of the holy Ghoste by Scriptures which I neuer denied nor euer gaue him such issue to proue But where he confesseth a Trinitie and that the holy Ghost is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie whiche holy Ghost also he confesseth to proceede from the Father and the Sonne though al these partes be true and Catholique yet I saie he is neuer hable to proue any of these pointes by any expresse wordes of the Scriptures Thinges beleeued and yet not expressely writen in Scripture Where can he finde this worde Trinitie in this signification in al Scripture Where hath he this worde Person in this signification in any place of the Scripture Where hath he in any expresse wordes of the Scripture that the holy Ghoste proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne Or where hath he in al the Scripture that the holy Ghost is rather the thirde Person in Trinitie then the seconde These are the pointes that M. Iewel is charged to proue by expresse wordes of Scripture and not that the Holy Ghoste is God The word Transubstantiatiō abhorred bicause it is not foūd in scripture expressely The worde Transubstantiation they abhorre bicause it is no where founde expressely in Scripture and yet they acknowledge the worde Trinitie and the worde Person both First Seconde and Thirde though these wordes be no where founde expressely in these significations in the whole bodie of the Scriptures So can these craftie Iuglers and false peruerters of Goddes truthe doo when they be disposed changing them selues into al manner colours like the beast Chameleon excepte the colour of good meaning and plaine dealing into whiche for any long time they can not change them selues Iewel Pag. 93. I trust Gentle Reader thou vvilt not looke I should ansvver al M. Hardinges ordinarie idle talke So should I loose good time vvithout cause and be ouer troublesome to thine eares O saith he what a world is it to see these Defenders They whiche haue not kepte the Vnitie of spirite in the bande of Charitie whiche S. Paule requireth but haue seuered them selues from the body of the Churche tel vs now forsooth they beleeue that there is one Churche of God O M. Harding if vve haue herein saide il then beare vvitnesse of the il If vvee haue saide vvel vvherefore make you this bitter outcries c. Harding The Protestantes claime by the great visible Churche and by the litle inuisible Churche as it serueth best their turne O M. Iewel if your saying and doctrine were one The. 4. Chapt. I would neuer reprehend you but when you say one thing openly an other thing priuily and haue diuers pointes of secrete Doctrine contrarie the one to the other when ye are driuen to the straightes as now claiming by an inuisible Churche no where appearing many hundred yeres together whiche to say the truthe is no Churche at al and now by your great visible Churche spred abrode in al kingdomes when ye haue made your packe what is this in effecte but in woordes for the time to sette foorth your beleefe of one Churche gloriously and when time wil not beare out this gaie glorious Confession of yours then as your manner is to runne to Corners to seeke some comforte of an vnknowen Inuisible Churche where both the Ministers the preachers the Sacramentes the people and their whole life are al together inuisible In the saying wherof what doo ye elles but vtterly denie that one Churche which ye ought to Confesse Iewel Pag. 93. VVe say See Reader hovv vvel this ghear is proued M. Harding fol. 25. a. that our Doctrine and the Order of our Churches is elder then yours by fiue hundred vvhole yeres and more If ye vvil not beleeue vs yet beleeue M. Harding he vvil tel you euen the same Marke vvel his vvordes These they be It standeth not with Christes promises made to the Churche that he should suffer his Churche to continew in darkenesse these thousand yeres past And
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
Al are committed to thee the one whole flocke to one Neither art thou onely the Pastour of al the sheepe but also the onely Pastour of al the Pastours Demaundest thou of me howe I prooue it Forsooth out of the woorde of God Ioan. 21. For I praie you to whom I wil not saie of the Bisshoppes but also of the Apostles were al the sheepe so absolutely and indeterminately committed If thou loue me Peter feede my sheepe whiche sheepe The people of this or of that citie of this or of that countrie or kingdome My sheepe quod he Who now doth not euidently see that Christe did not appointe him certaine but assigned him al Where no distinction is made there nothing is excepted Thus you see how litle cause you had to saie why doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely without farther authoritie Iewel Pag. 103. And if this so large Commission be to Feede and feede so many vvhy then doth the Pope feede so litle Harding The Pope feedeth and why Christe appointed him to be his Vicare The stubbornesse of Heretiques is a lette The .18 Chapt. that his diligent feeding can not take place in many Howe manie Articles of the Christian Doctrine had the peruersitie of Heretiques wrapped vp in a Confusion and brought in doubte that fewe menne knewe howe to vnfolde them The Popes diligent feeding hath so by General Councelles through his authoritie and care assembled vnfolded and disclosed all the false craftes and sleightes of Heretiques that nowe euery man that wil maie haue in a readinesse by perusing the Canons of the Councelles what Doctrine is true and holesome what is false and heretical Of late yeares he emploied his diligence in calling all The Pope feedeth but some refuse his good foode and feede of Poison the Protestantes vnto the Councel of Trent he gaue them safe Conductes to come and departe without danger of their personnes and there during the time of their abode to propone argue and dispute of the pointes in cōtrouersie with al freedome VVhy the Ministers of England vvēt not to the General Councel at Trent most liberal and free Safe cōductes being graunted them But ye of England knowing your owne weaknesse and that ye were not so wel hable to prooue your doctrine in learned Assemblies as ye were with boasting Chalenges and bolde talkes to prate it out of pulpites emong the ignorant at home least with shame ye should there haue ben put to silence and prooued vnlearned wylily absented your selues Notwithstanding libertie was geuen you to come and saie for your Gospel what ye could and as it appeareth in the Actes of the same to frame your safe Conducte if ye desliked the fourme set foorth in the Councel in as ample manner for your owne safegarde and benefite as ye could deuise Iewel Pag. 103. Againe vvhere learned M. Harding to reason thus Christe is ascended into heauen Ergo the Pope is head of the vvhole vvorlde Harding Nay where learned M. Iewel to fashon suche peeuish argumentes of his owne deuise and fathering them vpon his Aduersarie to scoffe at them as if they were of his Aduersaries making If this Argument be naught let him amend it that framed it If it be ridiculous the Reader may see what a ridiculous head he hath that brought it forth My reason dependeth in this sorte If it had pleased Christ to haue remained here visibly emong vs alwaies and to haue taken continual order him selfe for the external gouernment of the Churche we should not haue needed any other general head but Christe him selfe who had ben sufficient But for asmuch as Christes bodily and visible presence through his Ascension was for good purposes taken awaie from vs that we might haue better occasion to exercise faith and the holy Sacramentes it was needeful that in his steede he should leaue some one General Vicegerent In. 24. caput Luca. and Vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose termeth him that should haue ful authoritie to rule the whole Churche The partes of this reason are wel linked together both by diuinitie and also by logique As M. Iewel hath framed it it serueth for nothing but to make sporte emong Prentises I allege not Christes Ascension for the ful and sufficient cause of hauing one general Head as M. Iewel would beare menne in hande if any be so simple to beleeue him The cause vvhy Christe hath placed his Vicare here in his stede Ambros in 24. cap. Lucae but as the occasion why he should place an other in the absence of his Visible person in his steede The necessitie of the Churche that disorder and confusion be auoided and that vnitie be kepte considered together with the great loue that Christe hath to the Churche is the ful cause why Christe placed in his steede a general Vicegerent Vicarium amoris sui the vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose calleth him Iewel Ibidem But ye saie God speaketh not novv vnto vs mouth to mouth c. Harding What rule is like to be if the Scripture be made ruler and gouernour Your drifte is in this place The. 19. Chapt. to put the whole gouernment of the Church quite from the Pope whom Chrysostome as I haue tolde you before taketh to be the vniuersal Head bicause he is S. Peters Successour and to driue vs to deliuer the whole rule vnto the Scripture and that being remoued quite from any one certaine sense and leafte to mennes Phantasies to descant vpon it What vnitie and good Order wil folowe thereof they of Germanie ye of England the Lutherans the Zuinglians the Caluinistes the Osiandrines the Zuencfeldians the Anabaptistes the new Puritanes that now spring vp so freshly and other sectes wherewith the worlde swarmeth haue tolde vs already the whiche could neuer yet come to any good vnitie and common agreement Ye leaue vs also an other sorte of gouernours Apostles Ephes 4. Prophetes Euangelistes Pastours and Doctours of whom S. Paule speaketh If these be the Gouernours appointed by holy Scripture how falleth it out that ye contrary to Scripture haue geuen the supreme gouernment of your Church of England to laye Princes some being vnder their nources gouernance some being women The cas◠thus standing if the Ministers agree not in doctrine hovv shal vnitie be made and the people kepte vnpoisoned If these forenamed the Apostles c. be the right gouernours how happeth it that they can doo nothing concerning Order to be taken for the Churche but by authoritie deriued from a mere laie power If these that is to saie the successours of the Apostles Prophetes c. be the right gouernours what if any of these iarre and fal at square emong them selues as it hath oftentimes ben seene either within the compasse of one Realme or in diuers Realmes and doo poison the people with sundry Heresies to whom shal we resorte to haue them called home and reduced vnto order whom haue
God M. Harding is not hable to shevve vs one Harding The gouernment of the whole Churche exercised by the Popes actually If the Popes manner had benne to bring menne in subiection by the Sworde and force of Armes The 20. Chapt. as it is not whiche thing Kinges haue vsed to doo then had ye as wel knowen the Popes Vniuersal Gouernment whiche you had rather cal Dominion by practise as you doo nowe knowe the Kinges Or were it so that ye fealte so sensibily the paine of Excommunication as ye doo the tormentes that Kinges vse against Rebelles when they once drawe their sworde of correction you would muche more feare to offende the Pope then ye doo now the force of Princes But your manner is alwaies to feare him that hath the sensible rodde in his hande ready at a worde to geue the stroke the Pope bicause he vseth long patience before he striketh and when he striketh his stroke bringeth no bodily paine but causeth a spiritual separation of mannes soule for his contumacie from the vnitie of the Church and from God whiche is not sensibly fealte therefore ye feare to offende Princes and vtterly set nought by the Popes autoritie But what if none of the Popes hitherto euer exercised their vniuersal gouernment ouer the whole Churche of God whiche in deede is not true is theâ—â— right therefore any thing the lesse Not at al. The Duke of Sauoie you know hath in right the Dominion and rule of Geneua yet they of the towne suche is the spirite that your holy Gospel breatheth into the people like errant Rebelles haue kept him out of his right many yeres And what if this be not true that you saie What if diuers Popes maie be named that haue ruled the whole Churche both the East and the Weast as farre as any Christian Emperour extended his Dominion Maie you not then reuoke your stoute assertion You haue read I suppose of the great councel of Chalcedon vnder Pope Leo and of the great Councel of Lateran vnder Innocentius tertius and the Councelles of Florence and of Lions How saie you I praie you finde ye not there that the Greeke Churche as wel as the Latine Churche agnised the Popes Supremacie I denie not but that a fewe Heretiques or Schismatiques perhappes might disobeie him at certaine time and in certaine places But what then So doo rebelles oftetimes disobeye their Princes His authoritie notwithstanding tooke place through the whole Churche emong obedient Christians Iewel Pag. 104. But God be thanked it appeareth already to al them that haue eyes to see that vve haue not departed from the seruile obedience of that See But vpon iust cause and good aâ—ise Harding The 21. Chapt. Yea God wote vpon as iuste causes as they of Germanie rebelled against Charles the fift that noble Prince theire lawful Emperour or if ye list vpon as iust causes as they of Geneua departed from the Duke of Sauoie their lawful Prince or if ye wil wade farther vpon as iust causes as the Huguenotes of Fraunce haue to remoue their lawful king from the godly and accustomed gouernment of his realme by open rebellion now the second time What you accompte seruile obedience Seruile obedience I know not but of this I am wel assured that such gouernment as ye and they of your spirite vse in some places when the worlde serueth your turne for the establishing of your Gospel to worke your policies maie wel be called a yoke made of harde yron whereas the Popes yoke if it must needes be called a yoke Yoke of iron yoke oâ— wood bicause ye speake of seruile obedience is but of softe wood that is to saie light and easie As al theeues would gladly departe from the obedience of their lawful Iudge and cal it Seruile if that might be allowed euen so al suche aduersaries of the Catholique Churche can thinke euery smal cause yea being no iust cause at al sufficient to departe from the obedience of the Pope the chiefe Pastour whose office is to condemne al their Heresies as al your Heresies at this daie are condemned in the Councel of Trent by the Popes authoritie Touching the argument you make à contrario sensu Pag. 104. out of the wordes of Calixtus Epistle in Gratian if you had foreseene the folie of it I dare saie Distinct 12. Non decet M Iewelâ— ArgumeÌ„â— you would neuer haue printed it for very shame The argument is this What so euer is done without discretion of Iustice against the order of the Churche of Rome it maie not by any meanes be allowed Ergo what soeuer is done by discretion of Iustice notwithstanding it be againâ—â— the Order of the Churche of Rome yet ought it to be wel allowed First your duetie had benne to haue laied the causes of your departure from the Churche of Rome before some lawful Iudge and haue proued the causes so alleged both true and iuste and not to make your selues iudges both of the sufficiencie of the causes and of your departure Nexte your duetie had benne to haue weighed wel this Argument whether it receiueth any deceitful sophistication The folie of M. Ievvelles argument shevved by the like either in it selfe or in his like Is this argument trowe ye good M. Iewel What so euer thing is donne without discretion of Iustice against the order of Goddes lawe it maie not by any meanes be allowed Ergo what so euer is donne by discretion of Iustice notwithstanding it be against the Order of Goddes lawe yet ought it to be wel allowed And yet is this argument in al pointes like yours Suche Diuinitie suche Logique Wel maie this Logique be allowed in your new schoole at Geneua in any learned Vniuersitie of Christendome certainely it wil not be allowed Looke what faulte ye can finde in the later Argument the same maie ye finde in your owne This later maie be a glasse vnto you to beholde your folio in the first The Glose expressely founde contrarie to M. Iew. Verely where you founde these wordes in Gratian euen there in your owne Glose vpon GratiaÌ„ you found your Argument disproued with these very wordes Hic vacat argumentum à contrario sensu Here the argument deduced of the contrarie sense is voide and holdeth not This you saw or your gatherer for you Yet you would it should out be it taken wel or otherwise Thus you delight to be striking though we can soone heale your woundes For so you thinke to persuade the simple that ye haue muche matter against vs. The places of S. Augustine and of Pius that you allege Pag. 104. make nothing against the Pope therefore I marueile why you allege them seruing you to so litle purpose Perhaps this may be your manner of reasoning S. Augustine would not haue vs to geue ouer to any Bishops be they neuer so Catholique if they happely be deceiued and be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Ergo
the Aphrican Bishoppes had deposed and remoued from his Bishprike for crimes not sufficiently proued sent his Clerkes that were his Agentes in Aphrica vnto certaine noble menne of the Countrie bearing offices vnder the Emperour to require their assistence if neede should so require whiche is as muche to saie as now we vse to speake as implorare brachium seculare to cal vpon the temporal power for helpe that iustice maie be executed With this the Aphrican Bishoppes did muche mislike and therefore besought Pope Coelestine that it should no more be donne but that maters might be ended by them being Bishoppes of that prouince without al intermedling of the laie power The wordes of the epistle are these Concil Aphâ—ican cap. 105. Executores etiam clericos vestros quibusque potentibus nolite mittere nolite concedereâ—ne fumosum typhum seculi in Ecclesiam Christi quae lucem simplicitatis humilitatis diem Deum videre cupientibus praefert videamur inducere Furthermore we beseche you that you sende no more your Clerkes that be your Agentes vnto any of the great menne and that you graunt to no suche thing hereafter leste we should seeme to bringe the smoky or vaine stoutenesse of the worlde into the Churche of Christe whiche to them that couete to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and humilitie This is the Vntruthe you make vpon the Aphrican Councel in reprouing Pope Innocentius of pride and worldely Lordelinesse fully answered Now as vow haue brought an vntruth against the Pope out of the Aphrican Councel as you pretend so maie it please you to consider of the contrarie reported in the behofe of the Popes supreme authoritie in gouernment out of a Councel of Aphrica where we finde the same autoritie with these wordes auouched and acknowleged Maximè tustè debent Episcoporum iudicia negotia ecclesiastica ab ipso praesulum examinari vertice Apostolico Epist Stephani trium CoÌ„ciliorum Aphrica ad Damasum PapaÌ„ Con. 10. 1. cuius vetusta solicitudo est tam mala damnare quà m releuare laudanda Antiquis enim regulis censitum est vt quicquid horum quamuis in remotis vel in longinquo positis ageretur prouincijs non prius tractandum vel accipiendum sit nisi ad notitiam almae sedis vestrae fuisset deductum vt eius authoritate iuxta quod fuisset pronunciatum firmaretur The iudgementes of Bishops and ecclesiastical maters ought most iustely to be examined of him that is the Apostolike toppe or the crowne of the head of the Prelates whose care it is of olde as wel to condemne il thinges as to releeue good thinges For it hath ben decreed by the olde Canons that what so euer matter of the Bishoppes were in sute though it were in prouinces that be farre of from Rome it should not be ended before it were brought to the notice of that your See that it might be assured by the authoritie of the same right so as the sentence in iudgement should be pronounced By these wordes and by the whole Epistle of the Fathers of that Aphrican Councel assembled together vnder the Archebishop Stephanus it appeareth euidently how reuerently they submitted them selues and the determination of their causes and controuersies vnto the Pope and how farre of they were from the outragious sprite as to charge Innocentius or any other Pope with pride and wordely lordelinesse as M. Iewel hath fained Iewel Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned S. Augustine and al the said Councel of Aphrica and called them al heretiques and Schismatiques Inter decreta Bonifacij 2. Instigante diabolo for the same and said they vvere al * leade by the Deuil Pope Zosimus to maintaine this claime corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding Bonifacius 2. Fowly be lyed The .31 Chapt. It is pitie this man hath not a good mater For where he maketh so muche of nothing what would he doo had he somewhat But it is easie to saie muche in a naughty cause for one that is not a shamed to lie It can not be founde among the Decrees of Pope Boniface the .2 vnto whiche M. Iewel referreth vs nor any where els that he euer condemned that blessed and learned Father S. Augustine by name nor the Councel of Aphrica by any solemne sentence pronounced against them Verely that he called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same that is to saie for the Popes vniuersal authoritie or for any thing and that they were lead by the Deuil it is an impudent lie The most greuous wordes he vttereth against them are these in an Epistle that he writeth to Eulalius the Patriarch of Alexandria exhorting him to reioise and to geue warning to other Bishoppes neare vnto him to reioise also and to geue God thankes for that the Churche of Aphrica was reconciled and returned to the obedience of the Churche of Rome from whence they had seuered them selues for the space of a hundred yeres vpon some stomake as it appeareth for that they would not admitte any Appellations of the Bishoppes of Aphrica to be made vnto the Pope whiche authoritie the Pope claimed by a Canon of the Nicene Councel CoÌ„cil Sardicen ca. 7 Bonifac. 2. Epist ad EulabiuÌ„ CoÌ„cil to 1. pag. 1057. and likewise by a Canon of the Councel of Sardica Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesiae olim Episcopus cum collegis suis instigante Diabolo superbire temporibus praedecessorum nostroruÌ„ Bonifacij atque Coelestini contra Romanam Ecclesiam coepit Aurelius some time Bishop of the Churche of Carthage beganne with his felowe Bishops the Deuil intising them to be proude against the Churche of Rome in the daies of Boniface and Coelestine my predecessours c. Of Heretiques and Schismatiques here is not a worde And though he said the Deuil intised them yet wil it not folowe that al they were leadde by the Deuil The Deuil intiseth many yea whom doth he not intise to euil Yet al be not leadde by the Deuil To be intised of the Deuil is one thing to be leadde is an other Touching Pope Zosimus saie what ye can folowing your Maister Caluine and when ye haue said al that ye can saie it is wel knowen ye shal neuer clearely proue Caluine Institut Cap. 1. that he corrupted the Councel of Nice For this I referre the Reader to M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon M. Iewel Articulo 4. fol. 30. sequentib Peruse the place Reader and thou shalt finde thy selfe wel satisfied touching this pointe That whiche there is said in defence of Zosimus against their sclaunderous reportes M. Iewel should first haue disproued if he had minded in that mater to trie out the truthe and then haue laied it againe in our waie But he ful craftily dissembleth al and maketh as though he had not seene any such thing therby bothe to encomber vs with ofte repeating of one thing and the reader with hearing that whiche hath ben
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
had deceiued the Pope by false suggestion Therefore if a true suggestion had ben made to the Pope his Decree should haue preuailed although it extended it selfe as farre as Spaine and that for the restitution of a Bishop against him that was newly elected a Bishop by the consent of al the Bishops of Spaine Therefore the Popes authoritie ouer other Bisshops grounding it selfe vpon a right and true information was acknowledged in the Primitiue Church Iewel Pag. 129. 130. Dist 64. cap. fin In dede touching euery Metropolitanes seueral Iurisdiction Gratianus noteth thus Illud generaliter clarum est quod si quis praeter sententiam Metropolitani fuerit factus Episcopus hunc magna synodus definiuit Episcopum esse non oportere This is generally cleare that if any man be made Bishop vvithout the consent of his Metropolitane the great councel of Nice hath decreed that such a one may not be Bishop So likevvise saith Socrates of the Bishop of Constantinople VVithout the consent of the Bishop of Constantinople let no man be chosen Bishop Socrates Lib. 7. cap. 28. Here is a right reserued specially to the Bishop of Constantinople and to euery Metropolitane vvithin his ovvne prouince But of the Bishop of Romes vniuersal right of Confirmation vve heare nothing Harding You reason vpon authoritie negatiuely as though if the Councel of Nice and Socrates speake not of that confirmation whiche belongeth to the Bishop of Rome therefore there could be no suche But it appeareth by S. Cyprian in diuers Epistles that it was the custome in his time for a Bishop newly made to sende letters to al the other Bishops intimating his Election Now as those letters came first and specially to the Bishop of Rome Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. as fitting by S. Cyprians owne confession in the principal chaire and succeding S. Peter euen so if the Pope for iuste causes had not receiued the letters and communion of the said newe Bishop he then for lacke of the Popes confirmation could not rightly haue enioyed his Bishoprike as it appeareth by many examples which would require a discourse ouer long for this place nor very needeful sith the confirmation of Bishoppes is not our principal matter but only the Succession Yet M. Iewel who remēbreth of olde so much Canon Lawe may cal to his remembrance what I haue said in my Answer to the Articles of his Chalenge In my Ansvver Artic. 4. where I haue shewed that the Pope had three Legates in the Easte a In epist. Simplicij ad Acatiū one in Constantinople b In epist Bonifacij ad Eulalium the other in Alexandria c Leo epistol 82. the third in Thessalonica Whereunto M. Iewel hath replied nothing as also M. Stapleton hath noted in the Returne Now if those Bishops being not only Metropolitanes but also two of them Patriarkes were neuer the lesse the Popes Legates it is easy to see how the Popes confirmation was geuen to the Bishoppes generally vnder those Primates seing the Primates them selues were confirmed by him or els they were not accompted lawful Bishops for lacke of his cōfirmation Zonaras in vita Constātis nepot Heraclij as it is euident in the exāple of Pyrrhus the Bishop of Cōstantinople who both was put into his bishoprike by the bishop of Rome when he had persuaded him that he was Catholike and againe was put out by his autoritie when it was perceiued that he had dissembled Iewel Pag. 130. Neither doth M. Hardinges counterfeite Anacletus claime al the Bisshops thorough the vvorld as belonging to his Admission Epistol 3. dist 93. iuxta Sanctorū but only a parte These be his vvordes Omnes episcopi qui huius Apostolicae sedis ordinationi subiacent Al the bisshops that are vnder the ordering or confirmation of this Apostolike See Harding If Anacletus be counterfeite Anacletus not counterfeite it is farre from our knowledge For we found that Epistle in his name registred emong the epistles of other Popes aboue a thousand yeres past And Isidorus who gathered them found them so intitled as we reade them Therefore your slaunderours tongue toucheth not vs. Ordination and Confirmation are diuers Concerning that you accompte Ordering and Confirmation to be al one it is a grosse errour both in Grammer and in knowledge of histories Ordinatio is ordering and Confirmatio is confirmation The Ordering of bishops was done by the bishops of the same Prouince with the consent of the Metropolitane Nicen. Concil ca. 6. But the confirmation was made by other Bisshops also without the Prouince and specially by the Bishop of Rome who these many hundred yeres hath confirmed them alone bicause the vse of communicatorie letters is leaft and that is reputed don◠by the whole body which is done by the head thereof Iewel Pag. 130. Sozom. li. 6. cap. 23. So likevvise vvriteth Damasus to the Bisshops of Illyricum Par est omnes qui sunt in orbe Romano magistros consentire It is meete that al the teachers vvithin the Romaine iurisdiction should agree together Harding The olde stuffe of M Iewels Replie here repeated Before you referred these matters to your Replie as though you would haue said no more thereof and yet al this while you do but write out your Replie againe To what purpose you allege these wordes I cannot tel as the which make euidently against you and nothing for you The Romaine world or iurisdiction was both East and Weast as farre as the Romaines had conquered and they had conquered al the countries wherein al the Patriarchal Sees were placed If therefore by Damasus you wil proue that he confirmed al the bishops in the Romaine circuite surely you proue thereby that he confirmed the three Patriarkes of Alexandria of Antioche and of Ierusalem with al the bishops vnder them So wel your owne tale is tolde And in dede better it can not be tolde seing euery thing that is true is agreable with the truth and therefore what soeuer you falsifie not must needes proue against you who susteine the false cause Iewel Pag. 130. Againe that you say a Bisshop hath alvvaies benne consecrated by other three Bisshops vvhether it be true or no it may vvel be called in question a◠being of your parte hitherto very vveakely affirmed Harding My affirmation therein is taken out of the fact of the three Apostles S. Peter S. Iohn and S. Iames Euseb histor Eccl. lib. 2. ca. 2 who as Eusebius witnesseth did consecrate our Lordes brother the first bishop of Ierusalem And he againe reciteth it out of Clemens Alexandrinus So auncient was this tradition whereof now M. Iewel doubteth The same likewise is againe witnessed in the fourth Councel Concil holden at Carthage Cartha 4 where two bishops are prescribed to holde the booke of the Gospels ouer the Bishops head Can. 2. whiles the third blesseth him Iewel Pag. 130. Surely Petrus de Palude
accusations when there are two witnesses It is his part only to admit accusations against Priestes who is the iudge of Priestes and euery Iudge is aboue him ouer whom he sitteth in iudgement Therefore a Bishop by Gods lawe is aboue a priest whose iudge he is allowed to be Epiphanius har 75. Which argument Epiphanius bringeth against Aerius the heretike who said as now M. Iewel saith that Priestes and Bishops were equal Hieron ad EuagriuÌ„ Againe S. Hierome who defended that the names of Bishops and of Priestes were confounded in the beginning and that the order of priesthod in them was one both which thinges are true yet he made an euident difference betwen the power of them graunting that a Priest could doo al that a Bishop can Hieronymus aduersus Luciferianos excepta ordinatione the ordering or geuing of holy orders excepted In that point then he beleued a Bishop to be aboue a Priest Now say I such a Bishop as by Gods lawe is aboue a Priest as who may only make Priestes and geue them power to consecrate and in Christes person to make and offer vnto God his body and bloud such a Bishop or such a Priest you haue not in al your Church vnlesse they be Apostates and Renegates who being once made priestes with vs haue now denied the faith wherein they were Christened and are runne out of the Church vnto your false Congregations and scattered troupes Iewel Neiter doth the Church of England this daye depende of them vvhom you so often cal Apostates as if our Church vvere no Churche vvithout them Harding S. Hierome said no Priest no Church Aduersus Lucifer Epistola ad Heliodorum and by a priest he meant him that maketh Christes body with hâ—â— holy mouth and offereth the same For these are his own wordes but such a priest is made only of a Bishop who is by Gods law aboue him And such Priestes haue you none besides Apostates Therfore your Church either is none or dependeth of Apostates and Renegates Iewel Pag. 131. They are no Apostates M. Harding that is rather your ovvne name and of good right belongeth vnto you Harding He is an Apostata who forsaketh the good profession VVho are Apostates which he once had But the profession either of Monkes or of the Catholikes whom you cal Papistes is good and godly For concerning Monkes they are the men who after the counsel of our Sauiour Matt. 19. professe to geue awaie their goodes to the pore or forsake the hope of goodes whiche may be had in the world and follow Christe gelding them selues or making them selues Eunuches for the kingdom of heauen This must needes be a good profession And as for the Catholikes they are the onely true members of Christes Church and none other can be Catholiques beside those whom you cal Papistes Bicause none others haue benne alwaies in al places and al times sith Christes Ascension And we haue ben so as our predecessours and pastours in the See of Rome with al other pastours agreeing therewith doo euidently shew euen to the eye Therfore who so haue forsaken their profession and rule as Renegate monkes and Friers haue or our Churâ—h as those priestes haue who being rightly ordered in the catholique Churche communicate now with you they are Apostates and Renegates And wheras you say that to be my name and of good right to belong vnto me there can be no iuste cause to cal me an Apostata except it be for departing from you But ye are al Apostates your selues For it can be named but of what Catholike felowship ye are departed whom ye leafte behind you al Italie Fraunce and Spaine c. who went out with you a peece of Germanie Suitzerland England and Scotland and after whom ye went some after Luther some after Zuinglius some after Caluin Therefore ye are al Apostates Now when I departed from you with whom notwithstanding I neuer remained wholly I departed from Apostates and came to that fellowship which neuer forsooke their former faith nor went out nor leaft any behind them who might complaine of their departure nor had any peculiar Captaines but onely the Apostles and their Successours that folowed them lineally from age to age Therefore the name of Apostata belongeth not to me but to you and to your felowes If the Reader say that we doo but sclaunder one the other let him consider the reason and not the wordes An Apostata is one The Protestantes be Apostates who faileth and depareth from some certaine lawful head We departe from none but kepe God Christ and his Ministerial headdes Bishops Priestes Kinges and Magistrates But the Protestantes haue denied al the Bishops aliue in the whole earth who liued before and in Luthers time They haue and doo rebel in al countries for the pretence of Religion And so they forsake both the obedience of spiritual and temporal gouernours therefore they are by al meanes Apostates Iewel Pag. 131. They are for a great part learned and graue and godly men and are much ashamed to see your solies Harding There is no learning against faith What learning cal you it when a man learneth to denie this to be Christes body which he said to be his body Or to holde Matt. 26. that the Church is sometimes hid Matt. 5. which Christ said to be a Citie built vpon a hil that can not be hid What grauitie is this to be moued and caried out of the Church and to be tossed hither and thither with euery puffe of new doctrine Nowe to be a Hussite then a Lutheran now a Brentian afterward a Zuinglian and last of al a Caluinist Yea what grauitie is it to defende that al these sectes may be saued seing they teâ—â—â— contradictorie doctrine and wil come to no agreement Concerning our folies which you say they see they are folies to worldlynges and to men wise in their owne eyes as a man to shut vp him selfe in a Cloister to watch to fast to praye to liue chaste to bewaile his sinnes to geue awaye al his goods for Gods sake to honour Gods frendes with a due reuerence and worship to beleue Christ rather then our eyes and to trust the wit of our Predecessours rather then our owne These are in deede our folies in 〈…〉 we glorie through Gods grace leauing the pride oâ—â—oâ—… new traÌ„slations of the Scriptures your Sectes and wordly wisedom the breaking of vowes the liuing in incest and open filthinesse with impudent maintenance therof to your great learning grauitie holinesse and wisedom Iewel Pag. 131. NotvvithstaÌ„ding if there vvere not one neither of them nor of vs leaft aliue yet vvould not therfore the vvhole Church of EnglaÌ„d flee to Louain Harding Who euer said that the whole Church of England must flee or was fled to Louaine You kepe some parte of it fast inough from fleeing to Louaine or any whither els if the Tower the Fleete the Marshalsea the
Counters the Kinges Beanch and other prisons in London be hable to kepe men fast But if you speake of your owne Church surely you had Apostates and renegate priestes in it Aduersus LuciferiaÌ„ or you had no Church at al as out of S. Hierome I shewed before who saith no Priest no Church And verely no trew Church euer was there without an External and publike Sacrifice which it might offer to God to acknowlege that he is the beginning and ende of al grace and goodnes But where no external Priesthod is as you now beleue ther is none there is no external Sacrifice and coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no true Church And seing renegate priestes can not make a true Church nor their Sacrifice can be acceptable vnto God yea rather seing they are of the mind and belefe that it is not lawful to honour God with the external Sacrifice of Christes owne body and bloud leaft to vs for that intent it doth stil follow that although ye haue true Priestes which runne from vs yet haue ye neither true Sacrifice by them nor true Church Ievvel Pag. 131. Tâ—rtullian saith Nonne laici sacerdotes sumus scriptum est c. And vve being laye men are vve not priestes it is written In exhortatione ad CastitateÌ„ Christ hath made vs both a kingdome and priestes vnto God his father The authoritie of the Church and the honour by the assemblie or Councel of Order sanctified of God hath made a difference betwen the laye and the clergie whereas there is no assemblie of ecclesiastical Order the priest being there alone vvithout the companie of other priestes doth both minister the oblatioÌ„ and also baptize Yea and be there but three together and though they be laye men yet is there a Church For euery man liueth of his owne faith Harding Wonder not M. Iewel as you confesse that once you did at your misfortune and euil lucke in that by vs a thowsand faultes are sooner fownd in your bookes then you could wel without blushing if any shame were in you note two hundred in myne For who so euer writeth against the truth can not possibly bring one word which for maintenance of an vntruth may be altogether truly applied after the writers minde out of whome the same is alleged onlesse that writer were him selfe an Heretike or in that behalfe by better iudgement noted of some errour Therefore it is easier to find many thowsand Lyes in your bookes then any fewe in myne And as that hath ben shewed in many other examples heretofore so shal it now appeare most euidently in this which you bring out of Tertullian TertulliaÌ„ in exhort ad castitatem MoÌ„tanus and Tertullian coÌ„demned the secoÌ„d Mariages First the booke and worke that you allege is one of those which Tertullian wrote against the Churche after that he became an Heretike and was one of the disciples of Montanus For as Montanus did condemne the second Mariages so did his scholar Tertullian Who hauing corruptly interpreted many places of S. Paule commeth at the length to proue his heresie by conferring the olde Testament with the new Ecce in veteri lege c. Beholde saith he in the olde lawe I finde the licence of mariyng ofte to be inhibited It is enacted in the booke of Leuiticus Sacerdotes mei non plus nubent my Priestes shal not marrye any more But the fulnes of the law as in other pointes so in this was reserued to Christe alone VVhereupon it was more fully and more streightly prescribed that those ought bo be of one matrimonie who are chosen in the Priestly ordâ—r In so much that I my selfe remember certaine menne for hauing had two wiues to haue ben remoued from their place of Priesthod An obiection of TertulliaÌ„ against him selfe But thou wilt say Then is it lawful for other menne to marrie twise for so much as exception is made against them to wit against Priestes to whom it is not lauful to haue ben twise maried Hitherto Tertullian hath gon about by the example of the Priestes of the olde and new Testament to shew that Laye men also may not marrye but once For in the newe Testament S. Paule would haue them only chosen to Priesthod Tit. 1. The husband of one vvife who are or haue benne the husbandes of one wife that is to saye haue neither had two wiues at once nor haue married a widowe nor haue had two wiues one after an other For al this doth the Apostle meane and the auncient Fathers do so witnesse Now Tertullian saw euidently that there was a difference betwen Priestes and laye menne whereupon he made the former obiection to him selfe that the second mariages which only do staye a man from being Priest are absolutely lawful for him who wil be no Priest but wil remaine stil in the degree and state of laye men To the which obiection being to strong for Tertullian it behoued him so to answere as yet his heresie against the second mariages might be mainteined So that nowe M. Iewel bringeth forth his heretical answer made vnto a Catholikes argument Thus then Tertullian goeth forwarde Vani erimus si putauerimus quòd Sacerdotibus noÌ„ liceat laicis licere nonne laici Sacerdotes sumus We shal be deceiued or we shal be vaine men if we shal thinke that to be lawful for Laye menne whiche is not lawful for Priestes We that are Laye men are we not Priestes also And so he goeth forward with that which M. Iewel did allege for his purpose Double priesthod For wheras there is a double Priesthod one publike and external which is onely coÌ„mon to those that receiue power to consecrate Christes Body and Bloud at the Altare the other priuate and internal which is indifferently common to the Priestes and to laye men whereby they al receiue power in Baptisme to offer spiritual Sacrifices vnto God 1. Pet. 2. as S. Peter saith Tertullian would haue the argument to be good that as none are made publike and external Priestes whiche haue had two wiues so none who are internal priestes might haue two wiues But Tertullian is deceiued in his heretical argument as wel as M. Iewel is in alleging an heretical authoritie Whereupon S. Hierome saith Montanus TertulliaÌ„ enemie â—o sâ—coÌ„d mariages qui Nouati schisma sectaÌ„tur putant secunda matrimonia ab Ecclesiae communione prohibenda cùm Apostolus de Episcopis Praesbyteris hoc praecipiens vtique in caeteris relaxârit non quòd hortetur ad secunda matrimonia sed quòd necessitati carnis indulgeat Montanus and those who followe the schisme of Nouatus thinke that the second Mariages ought to be forbidden from the Communion of the Church whereas the Apostle geuing that commaundement vnto Bishoppes and priestes hath doubteles released it in other men Not that he exhorteth them to secoÌ„d mariages but bicuase he yeeldeth to the necessitie of the flesh So that S. Hierome reproueth
ye must go into the pit of Hel to fetch out Aêrius Pelagius Vigilantius Iouinian Heluidius Manichaeus and such others of condemned memorie to geue light vnto your Churche or els you can bring foorth none at al. For whereas al the Greekes Epiphan Haeres 75 as it may appeare by Epiphanius and al the Latines as it may appeare by S. Augustine condemned him for an heretike who said the prayers of the liue could not helpe the dead what catholike is it possible to bring foorth for the yere of our Lorde three hundred and fiftie or foure hundred who taught as ye now teache that it is not lawful nor profitable to praye for the dead Wel ye are not the light nor the daye Is your doctrine at the least the truth Nay that is the truth which is also the light For the true doctrine is taught in that Church which is built vpon an hil and can not be hid The truth is vniforme Math. 5. but emong you Luther and Zuinglius Caluine and Westphalus Bullinger and Brentius Illyricus and Beza and sundrie other couples and partes agree so wel that a man may easily know them to be false Prophetes For whereas they al disagree yet they are al without that Churche where vnitie is preserued in the perpetual Succession of many Bishops alwaies agreeing in one saith Therefore your doctrine is neither the light nor the daye nor the truth but darkenesse but night but errour Iewel 131. Novv for as much as ye haue thought it so good to examine the petite degree of Bishops of Sarisburie I trust you vvil not thinke it il if I a litle touch the lâ—ke in the Bishops of Rome that vve may thereby the better be hable to see some of the branches of your Succession Harding In dede they of whom you speake are but some of the branches of our Succession For you touch of two hundred and thirtye Bishops of Rome not thirteene and yet our Succession consisteth also of al the Bishops in Italie Spaine Fraunce Germanie Sicilie Polonia Hungarie Denmarke Suethen and England euen til king Henrie the eightes time But go too on Gods name touche whom you can I am wel assured you wil plaie the Spider to espie if any poison can be found any where Let vs see with what truth and honestie you blase their faultes The worst that can be said of al the Popes touching doctrine by the Protestantes is here gathered together and laid forth by M. Iewel and the same is truly answered Iewel Pag. 131. Therefore shortly to say you knovv that Pope Marcellinus committed Idolatrie Harding Of S. Marcellinus Martyr and Pope I know that after his Idolatrie whereto he yeelded for feare of death he repented and shed his bloud for Christe and dyed a glorious Martyr euen as S. Paule after that he had persecuted the Churche through grace repented and died for Christes name Who ought now to be more ashamed of S. Marcellinus you that chalenge him for an Idolatour or I that chalenge him for a Martyr The Idolatrie you speake of is gone and pardoned the Martyrdome whereof I speake is euerlastingly crowned in heauen The ende M. Iewel trieth al whereof you should haue taken your iudgement And yet this very Idolatoure bicause he was S. Peters Successour and sate in the first See was in case for the roume he occupied to be iudged of no man in the earth as tâ—e Councel of three hundred and thirtie Bishoppes assembled at Sinuessa pronounced aboue twelue hundred yeres past Tom 1. Concil Primasedes non iudicabitur à quoquaÌ„ The first seate shal not be iudged of any man What haue you wonne now by this example but that you do the world to vnderstand what malicious stomake ye beare against the Popes of Rome whose faultes ye are right glad to espie and blase abroade although they repented of them Verely it would haue becomme a sonne of the Churche to conceele suche actes of frailtie and not to see suche spottes that were with so abundant founteines of teares cleane washed awaie and with the bloude of so glorious Martyrdom quite blotted out Iewel 131. Pope Syluester the secoÌ„d vvas a Coniurer and gaue himselfe vvhole body and soule to the Deuil and by the Deuilles procurement vvas made Pope Harding That Syluester the second came to be Pope malis artibus by euil meanes it is not so cleare a matter as you make it Platina the chiefe author we haue for credite of that Storie vttereth it doubtefully by his Parenthesis vt aiunt as they saie Whereby he geueth vs to vnderstand that he was not hable to auouche it for a certaine truthe but referreth him selfe to the vulgare rumour of the people which most commonly bruteth abroad moe lies and vanities then truthes and certainties How beit Platina Platinae in vitis PontificuÌ„ Pope Syluester 2. his repentance at the ende who tolde you al this added also Poenitentia motus errorem suum coram populo fassus c. being moued with repentance and confessing his errour before the people he first exhorted them al that ambition and the deuilles deceites laide aside they should liue wel And afterward his body was miraculously drawen by horses to the chiefe Church of Rome and there was buried If you beleue the one you must beleue the other sithence it is but one Storie whereof you told the first parte and I the last Whereupon I attribute so much to that holy Succession that I doubte not as euil a man as he once was but God delte the more mercifully with him for his good predecessours sakes who I doubte not prayed for him that he might die penitently and be a saued soule Iewel 131. Pope Zosimus for ambition and claime of gouernment corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding You say it Pope Zosimus sclaundered by M. Ievv but neuer did any honest man say it from the beginning of the worlde til this time neither was the same yet euer proued For albeit he alleged such wordes of a certaine Canon as the other copies had not yet did no man lay to his charge that he had corrupted the CouÌ„cel For he alleged that which he found in his own copies I say to you M. Iewel there is nothing shewed by this your tale but that you are a man of il dispositioÌ„ who gladly reporte euil and besides that you finde reported of others inuent your selfe that which vtterly is false to diminish the estimation of a holy man that died eleueÌ„ hundred yeres past Marke the point I say if it be said of any man that euer wrote in the olde time that Pope Zosimus corrupted the Councel of Nice then you or your fellowes did not feine it but if no man said it but bawdy Bale or Illyricus and suche others the like then your part is with liers and sclaunderers and thereafter shal your iudgement be without you repente whiche God graunt you M. Stapleton in the
Leo was an Arian Forsooth there is an old motheatē booke wherein Saintes liues are said to be conteined Sometimes it is called Legenda Aurea sometimes Speculū Sanctorū sometimes Legenda Lombardica or Historia Lombardica Gesnerus of Zurich saith one Iacobus de Voragine a Black Frier was the author of it It shal not greatly skil who was the author of it Certaine it is that among some true Stories there be many vaine Fables written Among which this is one that M. Iewel here allegeth in great sadnesse Neither is this reported of Pope Leo that he was an Arian in a special Legende written of Leo but in a Legende of S. Hilarie of Poitiers in Fraunce whose holy reliques the Huguenotes in their late vproares in Fraunce villanously abused burned to Ashes and threw awaie as likewise the boanes and Reliques of S. Martine Bishop of Toures and of that auncient and glorious Martyr S. Ireneus Bisshop of Lions That it may the better be knowen what a worthy Doctor the writer of this Legende was Historia Lombardica De sancto Hilario Legendae 17. Hilarius dicitur ab Altus ares let the beginning of the same Legende be taken as it were for a taste where ful Clerckely discussing the Etymologie and first original of S. Hilaries name thus he saith Dicitur Hilarius quasi Alarius ab Altus Ares virtus quia fuit alius in scientia virtuosus in vita Vel Hilarius dicitur ab ile quod est quasi primordialis materia quae obscura fuit Et ipse in dictis suis magnam habet obscuritatem profunditatem Of such geare the Reader may finde great stoare there when so euer he is disposed to lawgh Now let vs heare the Legende or rather the Fable by which it appeareth to M. Iewel that Pope Leo was an Arian Thus it is tolde word by word Eo tempore Leo Papa haereticorum perfidia deprauatus c. At that time Pope Leo corrupted with the false beleefe of Heretikes assembled a Councel of al the bishops They being called together Hilarius came in amōgest them not sent for Which thing when the Pope Leo hearde of he commaunded that no mā should rise vp vnto him nor geue him place When he was come in the Pope said vnto him Arte thou Hilarius the Frenche man I am not a Frenche man quod he but one of Fraunce that is to say I am not borne in Fraunce I am a Bishop of Fraunce Then said the Pope If thou be Hilarie of Fraunce I am the Bishop of the Romaine See and Iudge Then said Hilarius Although thou be Leo that is to say Lion yet thou arte not the Lion of the tribe of Iuda And though thou sitte as iudge yet thou sittest not in the Seate of Maiestie At that the Pope Leo arose with disdaine saying Abide a while til I come againe and paie thee that thou deseruest To whom Hilarius answered If thou come not againe who shal make answer vnto me in thy steede I wil come againe by and by quod he and wil bring downe thy pride When the Pope was gonne to do the secrete busines of nature he died of a dysenterie and auoiding foorth at the Pryuey al his entrailes he ended his life miserably In the meane ceason Hilarie seeing that none woulde rise vp vnto him tooke pacience and setting him selfe downe on the grownde saied Domini est terra Our Lordes is the earth And therewith the earth by the wil of God whereon he sate lifted it selfe vp and stoode vp equal with the seates of the other Bishops Hereupon when tidinges came that the Pope was dead miserably Hilarie arose and confirmed al the Bishoppes in the Catholique Faith and so sent them home This is the wise Legende by which it appeareth to M. Iewel that Pope Leo was an Arian Heretique To let passe the other folies of this Fable what a vanitie is it to make Leo the Pope and S. Hilarie the Bisshop of Poitiers thus to braule together at an assemblie of Bishoppes whereas it is most certaine that S. Hilarie died at least one hundred yeres before Leo was borne M. Iewel should not so falsly haue conceeled what followeth immediatly in the same Legende whereby this tale is discredited For thus saith the authour him selfe Hoc autem miraculum de morte Leonis Papae dubitationem habet tum quia historia Ecclesiastica vel Tripartita nihil de hoc loquitur tum quia aliquem Papam talis nominis tunc fuisse Chronica non testatur tum quia Hieronymus dicit quòd Sancta Romana Ecclesia semper immaculata permansit in futuro manebit sine Haereticorum in sultatione But of this miracle of Leos death it is doubted partly bicause neither the Ecclesiastical nor the Tripartite storie speaketh of it partly bicause the Chronicle witnesseth not that there was any Pope then of that name S. Hieromes testimonie for the Churche of Rome out of his ovvne Doctor also bicause S. Hierome saith that the holy Romaine Churche hath euer continued vnspotted and so shal continue for tyme to come that Heretiques shal haue no cause to insult at here Marke M. Iewel if your Legende be ought worth with how cleare testimonie of S. Hierome your imputing of Heresie vnto the See of Rome is confuted After this by waie of gheasse the Authour saith to make a bad defence of the fables vanitie wherein he sheweth also his owne folie and vanitie that it might be sayd that is to witte if a man would lye that at that time there was some Pope so called not canonically chosen but set in by tyrannical intrusion Whereas he feared this would not serue he addeth an other gheasse Vel fortè Liberius c. Or els perhappes saith he Pope Liberius who fauoured Constantius the Heretique Emperour was after an other name called Leo. Whiche al are very poore and peeuish shiftes to sooth the vaine fable of this Legende Suche Donghilles and broken haies M. Iewel is faine to rake and skrape to finde some Ragges wherewith to couer the fowle nakednes of his wretched cause Yet the Storie set out in the name of Amphilochius touching S. Basiles miracles is muche more probable and maie beare the name of the text where this Legende shal not be thought worthy the name of the Glose Iewel 131. Pope Coelestinus vvas a Nestorian heretike Harding coelestinus Pope falsly charged vvith the heresie of Nestorius Photius in epist ad Michaelē Bulgariae principē Prosper in Chronic. Who euer heard such an impudent man It was Coelestinus who condemned Nestorius and al his heresies It was Coelestinus in whose place Cyrillus the Archebisshop of Alexandria sate president in the third General Councel at Ephesus where Nestorius was accursed and condemned Of this Coelestinus the learned Bishop Prosper who then liued writeth Nestorianae impietati praecipua Alexandrini Episcopi industria Papae Coelestini repugnat authoritas The special diligence of the Bisshop of Alexandria
and the authoritie of Pope Coelestinus resisteth the impietie of Nestorius And yet is Pope Coelestinus a Nestorian No truly but M. Iewel prooueth him selfe a most impudent Lyer and a wicked sclaunderer Iewel Pope Honorius vvas a Monothelite heretique Harding Of Pope Honorius Now at length M. Iewel you say that which hath some face of truth For Honorius in deede fel into the heresie of the Monothelites But he fel into it when as yet it was not euidently condemned by the Churche in any general Councel He fel into it but he defended it not and yet the crime of heresie is not properly incurred without a stubborne defence of falsehod Againe he did not only not make any heretical Decree touching the defence of that heresie by the authoritie of the See Apostolike but rather as a publike person he did resist that heresie Platina in Honorio For he induced Heraclius the Emperour to bannishe Pyrrhus the Patriarke of Constantinople and Cyrus the Patriarke of Alexandria who were giltie of the Monothelite heresie How then standeth it together that Honorius did bothe fauour and hate the selfe same heresie Some men considering what he did say that he was falsly accused of the heresie but others thinke rather that in his harte he fauoured the heresie yet bicause the Romaine Churche to witte the Bisshoppes of Ostia of Porto of Preneste of Velitro of Sabini and suche others that hauing their bishoprikes neare there about are moste commonly resident in Rome or are moste easily assembled thither to euery Consistorie with a great number of Priestes of Deacons and of other learned men who are the Councel Cypria in epist ad Clerum vib Rom. and Senate of the Pope bicause I say they are and euer haue benne euen from the beginning men of great experience as it may appeare in S. Cyprians workes and of constancie in the faith as who liued with diuerse Popes one after the other bicause then this reuerend companie were knowen to resiste as wel the Monothelite heresie as al other heresies it standeth wel together that Pope Honorius albeit in his owne person he fauoured that heresie Pope Honorius only burdened vvith the crime of heresie among the Popes yet durst not to publishe it in the cōmon assemblie but contrarywise did there as they gaue him Councel Whereby it came to passe that he both deposed Monothelites openly and yet fauoured their opinion priuily And this is the only Pope who may iustly be burdened with heresie But now consider good Reader the worke of God when he should come to confirme his brethrene that is to say to doo any open thing whereby the other Bisshoppes might be established in their faith then was he constrained to doo that whiche might edifie and not hinder the true faith that God might be iustified in his woordes Math. 16. who sayd to S. Peter vppon this rocke I wil builde my Churche and Hel gates shal not preuaile against it Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethrene feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes For when Honorius came to this pointe whether in publike Consistorie the Monothelite heresie whiche taught that there was but one wil in Christe should be allowed or no! then as Platina recordeth the Pope infourmed the Emperour as wel by letters as by messangers that Christe had two willes and that was done by the common assemblie and the letters went as the deede of the See and Churche of Rome whereas in the meane time Honorius was of an other minde within him selfe And they that are about great personages knowe right wel that they doo many times sende many messages and letters through the aduise of their Councel whiche the greate personages them selues would not haue to take place Thus we see a double person in him that gouerneth one which he hath in respecte of his owne priuate minde and iudgement the other which he hath or rather taketh as put vpon him by the publike office which he beareth Now concerning the matter of Succession the publike person is only to be regarded which in Pope Honorius was Catholike For that is the personage whiche may hurte or hinder the Church Of that publike personage Pope Agatho who followed not long after Honorius doubted not to write as it is recited in the sixth general Councel Act. 4. Concil 6. General Act. 4. concerning this very heresie of the Monothelites Apostolicae memoriae meae paruitatis praedecessores dominicis doctrinis instructi ex quo nouitatem haereticam in Christi immaculatam Ecclesiam Constantinopolitanae Ecclesia praesules introducere conabantur nunquam neglexerunt eos hortari atque obsecrando commonere vt a praui dogmatis haeretico errore saltem tacendo desisterent ne ex hoc exordium dissidij in vnitate Ecclesiae facerent vnam voluntatem vnámque operationem duarum naturarum asserentes in vno Domino nostro Iesu Christo The predecessours that were before me seelie man that I am men of Apostolike memorie and instructed in the Doctrine of our Lorde since that the Bishops of Constantinople endeuoured to bring an heretical noueltie into the vnspotted Church of Christe neuer ceased to exhorte them and with earnest meane to admonish them that they would at the least wise by forebearing talke surcease from the heretical errour of their wicked opinion least affirming that there was in our Lord Iesus Christe but one wil and one operation of two natures hereby they should cause strife to beginne in the vnitie of the Church Thus the predecessours of Agatho emong whom Honorius was one did as he reporteth alwaies openly defende the Catholique faith against the Monothelites It is to men knowen perhaps sometimes that the Pope or prince leadeth an euil life as for example in fornication or in Aduouterie Yet so long as their lawes forbid them bothe the menne are of euil example but the lawes are good and holesom and the common Weale is wel prouided for But if once Aduouterie or Fornication should be made lawful by Lawe as some menne say that vserie somewhere is then is the common Weale domaged No heresie euer decreed openly by any of the Popes But sithens the time that S. Peter sate first at Rome God hath wrought this miraculous yea thrise miraculous worke that there was neuer yet any open Assemblie or Synode kepte wherein any Heresie by any one of so many as haue ben S. Peters Successours was euer decreed The publique sentence and iudgement of the See Apostolike in matters of faith was neuer to this daie defiled or defaced with false doctrine That is the Succession which we holde of and whereof S. Augustine said so long time past August in Psalmo contra partem Donati Numerate c. Recken vp by tale the priestes euen from the very seate of Peter and in that rew of Fathers see who succeded other that is the Rocke which the proude gates of Hel doo not ouercome Iewel
al to be folowed in your deedes For he that dissenteth from you Doctrine is either an Heretique or a Schismatique These wordes being wel and duely considered of I reporte me to thine indifferent iudgement discrete Reader what M. Iewel can seme to any wise man to haue wonne by Iohannes Sarisburiensis He accuseth the vices of the Romaine Clergie and of some Popes them selues We also accuse the same Their euil deedes be not to be folowed saith he We saie the same and praie God to amende them Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Church of Rome said the people in his time Were it true yet were they to be obeied touching doctrine and to be beleeued bicause they sate in the Chaire of Peter as Christ cōmaunded the Scribes and Pharisees of the Iewes to be obeied and thinges to be done and kepte whiche they said bicause they succeeded Moyses and sate in Moyses Chaire Howbeit what the people of Rome of Italie and of Germanie said of the Pope at that time it ought the lesse to be regarded bicause they spake vpon grudge conceiued against him the Romaines Platina in vita Hadriani ◠for that as Platina witnesseth he denied them their ernest request which was that they might liue freely vnder the gouernement of the Consulles and be exempted from their subiection to the Church the Italians and Germains for that they were muche vexed with warres by William the King of Sicilia and Frederike the firste Emperour from whiche vexation and troubles they saw they should haue benne deliuered if the Pope woulde haue benne content to suffer the Landes of the Churche to be inuaded and taken awaie by those Princes Euen so in these daies the Popes be the worse spoken of and finde the lesse good wil at many mennes handes in some partes of Christendome bicause they can not be induced to allow and confirme the possession of certaine ecclesiastical Landes which haue ben taken frō the Church by vnlawful meanes in such wise as they them selues would haue it allowed and confirmed To be short agree with vs M. Iewel vnto the doctrine which the Church of Rome teacheth where the Succession is certaine wherunto your owne doctor Ioannes Sarisburiensis leadeth you and we wil agree with you in reprouing the vices and faultes of that See the proufe of which for a great part of them for ought ye can shewe is vncertaine Would God ye would once consider how sclender and weake the Argumentes ye make against the catholique Faith are which alwaies ye deduce à moribus ad doctrinam that is from reproufe of manners to the reproufe of doctrine Iewel Pag. 132. This is M. Hardings holy succession though faith faile yet Succession must holde Harding Nay syr Succession doth holde that faith maye not faile For you haue not proued by any one example that faith did euer faile in the Churche of Rome In the Church I saye which consisteth of the Pope and of a college and an assemblie of graue Bishops and priestes professing them selues the faith and teaching it others In that open assemblie neuer was there false religiō decred or taught whereas so many heresies haue ben not fewer then a hundred and so many Archeheretikes of whom some haue ben in the other Patriarchal Sees but in Rome neuer was there an Archeheretike or any Pope who in Councel or Consistorie decreed or confirmed any heresie to be admitted To him that knoweth the ecclesiastical histories and conferreth the See of Rome with al other Churches it is such a miracle as therby God hath witnessed that Succession to be the Rocke of the faith In so much that the Bishops of the prouince of Tarracon in Spaine wrote thus vnto Pope Hilarius In Tom. 1. Concil epist 2. Ad fidem recurrimus Apostolico orè laudatam inde responsa quaerentes vnde nihil errore nihil praesumptione sed pontificali totum deliberatione praecipitur We resort vnto the faith praysed by the mouth of the Apostle seeking answers from thence whence nothing is commaunded by errour nothing by presumption but al by bishoply deliberation Iewel For vnto the succession God hath bound the holy Ghost Harding No but vnto the holy Ghost The holy Ghost causeth the Successiō to abide faithful God hath bound the Succession For he causeth the Succession to abide faithful bicause he causeth it to follow the inspiration of the holy Ghost that it may so be knowen for euer certainly true in the chiefe Apostles Chaire and in the fellowship abiding with him Christ saith he that heareth you Luc. 10. heareth me I am with you al dayes vntil the worldes ende Math. 28. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethern feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes I wil beseeche my father Ioan. 14. and he shal geue you an other conforter that he remaine with you for euer 16. the spirite of truth he shal teach you al thinges and al truth The Romaine faith is preached in the whole worlde Roma 1. Iewel For lacke of this Succession for that in our Sees in the Churches of England vve find not so many Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes Aduouterers Churcherobbers Periured persones Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as vve may easily finde in the Church of Rome therefore I trovve M. Harding saith vve haue no Succession vve are no Bishops vve haue no Church at al. Harding Your Church of England hath yet scant continued so many weekes as the Churche of Rome hath continued yeres But if it had passed ouer such times of persecution as Rome hath if it had ben so assaulted by al sortes of enemies as wel within as without as wel with prosperitie as aduersitie I trow your Church would haue had before this as many Idolatours Necromancers Heretiques Aduouterers and such others by you named as the Church of Rome hath had Bishops And certainely already it hath had mo sortes of Heretikes and that within these xx yeres then Rome hath had euen by your owne accompte euil men within these fiften hundred yeres Idolatrie annexed vnto Heresie For your beginning progresse and the whole profession of your life is nothing but heresie whereunto Idolatrie is euermore annexed For an heretike doth alwaies worship his owne conceit and phantasie for truth and whereas God is truth he worshippeth his phantasie for God which is Idolatrie If the pope committed any faulte by frailtie he defended it not as you mainteine in open pulpites the breache of laudable and godly vowes and the marriages of consecrated persons who haue absteined from marriage euer since the Apostles tyme whose marriages saith S. Hierome be not so much Aduouteries Aduersus Iouin li. 1. as Inceste But in the number of mo then two hundred Popes within fiften hundred yeres you haue falsely numbred sixe or seuen as Heretikes whereas you can not denie but there haue ben in the same
the Scriptures or of the auncient Fathers M. Iewel meant to shewe that by Gods worde we might forsake our Predecessours examples But S. Cyprian rather sheweth that if our predecessours be taken as they ought to be taken that is to say for those that keepe the tradition and doctrine of the Apostles that then their Tradition is Gods worde Goddes VVord not written For he putteth it to be Gods owne worde that Christe offered his Chalice mingled of water and wine Yet of water there is no mention in the storie of the Supper In what worde then is it written that Christe had water in his Chalice Verely in the worde of Apostolike Tradition TraditioÌ„ in the vnwritten word in the worde of General Succession For in al Churches he sawe water mingled with wine and being assured that the Apostles who saw Christe to do it taught it so doubted not to say that our Lorde taught vs by his example and worde to mingle water with wine and so to offer the Chalice Verely you were farre ouerseene M. Iewel when you alleged this example as being suche whereby your selfe and al them of your side are vtterly condemned And what should ye do Except ye would repeÌ„t which God graunt if it be his wil ye must needes adde lye vnto lye without ende or measure or geue ouer the enterprise wherof you made your boasting ChaleÌ„ge Iewel CoÌ„pare the vse of our Churches M. Harding vvith the Primitiue Church of God and ye shal easily see the right of our Succession Harding Diuersitie betvven the primitiue Churche and the Churches of this nevve Gospel Rom. 10. Ioan. 20. Tit. 1. Damasus in pontifi VVho sendeth you M. Ievvel who sent your felovves Ioan. 10. If I should compare your Churches with the Primitiue Churche of God so narrowely as I might from the beginning to the ending we should finde scant any shadowe in your Churches of the Primitiue Church There no man preached but he that was lawfully sent as S. Paule saith And sent he was either of Christ visibly and sensibly speaking vnto him as when he said to the Apostles as my Father sent me I send you or els by the Apostles as when S. Paule sent Titus and Timotheus and S. Peter sent S. ClemeÌ„t and so S. ClemeÌ„t afterward sent others and so froÌ„ man to man Now tel vs who sendeth you to preach Not the Bishops which are the Successours of the Apostles whom ye despise Who then Forsooth one is sent of the common Weale which neuer had power to send him an other of the Ciuil Magistrate who also had no such power An other runneth before he be sent and therefore commeth of him selfe and is an Antichriste Moreouer the Apostles and their scholars preached that Irenaus lib. 4. c. 3. which they had heard preached whether it were written or no as S. Irenaeus witnesseth But you wil haue nothing preached except it be written and neuerthelesse yee preache that which is neither written nor deliuered you by Apostolike Tradition but as euery vaine Iustin in Apolog. 2. Lib. 4. cap. 32. light and idle braine imagineth of it selfe They mingled water with wine so doo not you They taught the Supper of our Lorde to be the new oblation of the new TestameÌ„t as saith S. Irenaeus You saie there is no external Oblation of the new Testament beside Christes death In the Primitiue Churche he that had ben twise maried Tit. 1. could not be Priest according to S. Paules doctrine You teache it to be lawful to make him Priest that hath ben ten times married and onlesse euery Priest 1. Timo. 5. and Minister among you be married ye iudge not wel of him S. Paule speaketh of olde Widowes who might marrie no more you haue none such But what ende shall there be of wordes If I would go thorough an hundred articles together it should appeare that ye haue nothing like the Apostles or like the Primitiue Churche There were Exorcismes Insufflations holy Oile holy Chrisme Incense Altares De Eccles Hierarchia as we read in S. Dionysius of al whiche ye haue not one and condemne the hauing of them They fasted a certaine number of daies as they who keeping the example of Christe fasted the forty daies Ignatius Epist ad PhilippeÌ„s Actor 2. 4. et 5 Math. 19. whiche we cal the Lenten Faste They prayed watched gaue away al their goodes and vowed so to doo they vowed chastitie and most exactly perfourmed the same they commended the Dead to God with praiers almose and Sacrifices whiche thinges ye for the most parte despise and accompt superstitious Iewel 133. S. Cyprian saith Si canalis aquae c. If the pipes of the conduit Ad Pompeium contra Epist Stephani which before ranne with abundance happen to faile do we not vse to search to the head The priestes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth hath fainted or failed in any point we returne to the very original of our Lorde and to the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that there hence we may take the discretion of our dooinges from whence the order it selfe and original first beganne Harding S. CypriaÌ„ alleged by M. Ievvel in an il cause The errour of S. Cyprian It is to be knowen M. Iewel that S. Cyprian vsed this saying in an euil cause as your selfe can not denie And therefore he defending a falshood was driuen to the very same shiftes whereunto al Heretikes are driuen He in deede was no Heretike For although he falsely beleued an vntruth and earnestly taught that those who had ben baptized of Heretiques if they came to the vnitie of the Catholike Churche should be baptized as hauing before no true sacrament of Baptisme yet he protested many times that he iudged no man that thought or taught the contrarie Cyprianus In epist ad IubatanuÌ„ contra Epist Stephani For he would not denie vnitie neither for that nor for any thing elles but liued a true Catholique and died a blessed Martyr Notwithstanding whiles he defended his errour he was deceiued in that Principle which now you allowe For whereas Pope Stephanus knowing that by SuccessioÌ„ the vse of the only laying of handes vpon them that had ben baptized of heretikes without baptizing them a new was deriued from the Apostles and receiued generally euen in Afrike it selfe vntil Agrippinus a Bishop of Carthage before S. Cyprian brake it whereas Pope Stephanus I say knowing this decreed that nothing should be changed or be taken vp a new S. Cyprian not being able to denie the tradition whereof Pope Steuen spake and which S. Cyprians predecessour Agrippinus first beganne to change fled to this common place that the worde of God was against the custome and therefore the custome ought to be broken The Pope defended with diuers other Bishops thâ—t the custome and Tradition was not against Gods worde Then said S. Cyprian
seing we are at variance let vs resorte to the very beginning and to the Original which is our Lordes worde and the Apostolike Tradition This was wel said But the Apostolike Tradition was so as Pope Steuen defended and not so as S. Cyprian woulde haue had it And this M. Iewel neither doo you nor can you denie For your selfe I trow wil not allow that they should be baptized againe in your owne Churche that haue ben before baptized in an other Churche which ye accompte for false heretical or schismatical What meant you then to consecrate S. Cyprians errour and to allege his authoritie therein where it ought not to be admitted and allowed But with you the ouersightes of the Fathers the errours of the Greekes the sayinges of heretiques the examples of Schismatiques the obiections of Schoolemen and Canonistes and the pelfe of Gloses is alwaies good stuffe Iewel S. Cyprian saith If the Pipes of the conduite vvhich before ranne vvith abundance happen to faile do vve not vse to searche to the head Harding Yeas if they could faile But in Christes Churche the Pipes can not faile The Pipes of the CoÌ„duite of Christes Church can neuer faile Math. 28. bicause Christe promised to be with his Apostles and thereby with their Successours al daies vntil the worldes ende If the Pipes of Christes grace and of his Churche faile to runne any one daie then is not Christe that daie with his Pastours and teachers and consequently he is not al daies or euery daie with them But if his worde can not be false then the Pipes neuer failed ne shall not faile and that was wel seene in S. Cyprians question For although they in Afrike had cut of the Pipes by force in changing the former custome and Tradition yet in Rome the Pipes ranne stil and therefore Christe was stil with the Bishops of Rome and with the other Bishops who remained in his Communion Example of agreeing in coÌ„munion vvhere is disagreeing in opinion Yea Christe was also with S. Cyprian bicause S. Cyprian departed not from Pope Steuens Communion But he was with S. Cyprian not in that question wherein he dissented from the Pope but in that he consented and agreed with the Pope For he both dissented concerning the particulare case and consented concerning the general bond of vnitie wishing to haue his owne sentence followed but if it were not followed as it was not content to yelde to his brethren rather then to breake of and to make a Schisme For thus he endeth that epistle which he wrote in that argument to Iubaianus Cyprianus Ad IubaianuÌ„ de Haereticis baptizaÌ„d Si quis putatur contentiosus esse nos talem consuetudinem noÌ„ habemus neque Ecclesia Dei. Seruatur à nobis patienter firmiter charitas animi collegij honor vinculum fidei et concordia Sacerdotij If any man be thought to be geuen to strife and debate we haue no such custome nor the Churche of God The Charitie of minde the honour of the societie the bonde of faith and the concorde of Priesthoode is both patiently and firmely keepte of vs. If M. Iewel if before him Luther and Caluine if al the rest of these Gospellers had none otherwise dissented from the Pope and the whole college of Bishops then S. Cyprian did they might haue ben saued as he vndoubtedly is a glorious Martyr in heauen But they imagined the Pipes whereby grace faith and al other giftes are deriued from Christ vnto vs to haue ben broken of for the space of these nine huÌ„dred yeres past deuised with them selues how they might repaire to the head and so might fetche the watter of life vnto vs by new Conduites and Pipes But they were deceiued For after Christe did once set the Pipes a ronning they neuer ceassed nor shal ceasse to ronne til the day of iudgement For the holy Ghost is promised to abide with the Apostles Ioan. 14. Esai 59. The B. of Rome is the successour of Peter Cyprian lib. 4. epi. 2 ad antâ—nianum Luc. 22. and their Successours in aeternum for euer And their Successours are the Bishops And as the Chiefe of the Apostles was S. Peter so S. Cyprian saith of Fabianus who was Bishop of Rome two hundred yeres after S. Peter Cùm Fabiani locus id est cùm locus Petri gradus Cathedrae sacerdotalis vacaret when the place of Fabian that is to say when the place of Peter and the steppe or degree of the Priestly Chaire was voide So that as Peters faith was most specially prayed for and that not only for his owne sake but to the ende he should strengthen and confirme his brethren euen so was euery Bishop of Romes Faith prayed for to the ende euery one might strengthen and confirme his brethren whiche are al Bishoppes in the truthe of the Faith and in the Gouernement of the flocke That Succession of the Bishop of Rome Augu. in in psalmuÌ„ coÌ„t parteÌ„ Donati and of the See of Peter is the Rocke which as S. Augustine saith the proude gates of Hel do not ouercome So he said eleuen hundred yeres past so vntil this howre the thing it selfe proueth so doo we beleeue that it shal be perfourmed by him that promised it vntil the worldes ende bicause it is the Rocke whiche shal euer confesse the true Faith and feede the sheepe of Christ and staye vp the howse of God and confirme al the faithful that leane vnto it Thus haue I confuted M. Iewel your treatise of Succession The Pipe of Christes doctrin hath coÌ„tinued in the catholike Churche onely which I tooke in hande specially to treate of bicause it sheweth most euidently that ye haue no true Churche bicause ye can shew no Pipe or Conduicte which from Christ vntil your Sectes hath stil continued ronning or hath stil deriued his doctrine and grace vnto them of your side It is the Catholike Church whiche you cal the Papistical Church which hath that Pipe and can euidently shew where the streame hath gonne and how it hath ben mainteined from age to age from generation to generation yea from man to man without any interruption Isai 62. Matth. 5. Philipp 2. Matt. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Esai 59. 1. Timo. 3. Such should the state of the Churche be according to Gods worde where watche men should neuer holde their peace where the citie built vpon the hil can not be hid where the children of light shine like sterres in the middest of the infidelles where Christe is al dayes vnto the worldes ende where the holy Ghoste is for euer teaching al truthe where the piller and sure staye of truthe is visibly seene as with whiche menne be conuersant in this worlde as S. Paule saith where to be shorte Ioan. 21. Christes sheepe are fed of Peter al abiding within the vnitie of his one Folde in this worlde thence and thence only to be transferred vnto the glorious Pasture of life
Iohanni Baptistae confite bantur peccata sua in Actis verò Apostolis ipsis à quibus etiam omnes baptizabantur It is necessarie to cōfesse sinnes vnto them to whom the dispensation of the mysteries is cōmitted those are the priestes For so they that in old time did penaunce are founde to haue done before the Saintes He meaneth priestes For it is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sinnes to Ihon Baptist In the Actes that they cōfessed them to the Apostles of whom also they were al baptized By S. Basil then it is necessarie to confesse sinnes vnto the priestes who are Christes ministers by M. Iewel it is not necessary at al. Who is the likelier of these two to be a lyer Ievvel Pag. 133. 149. M. Harding him selfe is forced to confesse that the expresse terme of Articular or Secret Confession is seldom mentioned in the auncient fathers His tale had ben truer if he had said it is neuer mentioned Harding True it is in deede seldom we finde the expresse name of Auricular or Secrete Confessiō bicause the custome in olde time was rather to confesse great sinnes openly But what skilleth it whether we finde the expresse name of Secrete Confession seing that is ordeined only in fauour of the penitent whom if he do it not secrtely it behoueth to do it openly For done it must be if he wil enioye the forgeuenes of sinnes which to imparte vnto penitentes Christe gaue power to his Apostles Ioan. 20. and by them to such Priestes as are lawfully sent by the Superiour for that purpose But yet to gratifie M. Iewel I wil bring forth one aūciēt witnesse for secret Cōfession Leo the great vnderstāding that in some Churches of Italie the custome was the sinnes of menne to be openly published and read out of a paper willeth the said custom to be abrogated and taken awaie Leo epist 80. cùm reatus conscientiarum sufficiat solis sacerdotibus indicari per confessionum secreta forasmuch as it suffiseth that the gilte of the consciences that is to saie the faultes where of men are giltie in their consciences be shewed vnto the priestes by the secrete meanes of Confessions How thinke you M. Iewel is not this the Secrete Confession which you required to be once shewed in the Auncient fathers Leo goeth forward in declaring the mater Quamuis plenitudo fidei videatur esse laudabilis quae propter Dei timorem apud homines erubescere non veretur tamen quia non omnium huiusmodi sunt peccata vt ea quae poenitentiam poscunt non timeant publicare remoueatur tam improbabilis consuetudo ne multi a poenitentiae remedijs arceantur dum aut erubescunt aut metuunt inimicis suis sua facta reserare à quibus possunt legum constitutione percelli Sufficit enim illa Confessio quae primùm Deo offertur tunc etiam Sacerdoti qui pro delictis poenitentium precator accedit Although the fulnes of faith seemeth prayse worthy which standing in awe of God feareth not to blush before men yet bicause al mennes sinnes be not such that they haue no cause to feare the publication of those thinges which require penaunce let so disalowable a custom be remoued lest manie be withholden frō the remedies of penaunce whiles either they be ashamed or afraid to open their deedes vnto their enemies of whom they may be troubled therefore by the ordinance of the lawes Confession is to be made to God first then to the Priest For that Cōfession sufficeth which is first offered vnto God then afterward also vnto the Priest who commeth to make intercession for the sinnes of the poenitent Here M. Iewel you see it is both necessarie to cōfesse our sinnes vnto God and also vnto the Priest You see also that it is laudable for a man to cōfesse them openly but it is to hard to bind him to it seing the Secret Confession maie suffice But one of them both must of necessitie be made to the Priest for great and mortal sinnes which neede the Priestes Absolution For thereof S. Augustine speaketh notably declaring howe a sinner is brought out of death out of the graue and as it were out of the bondes of sinnes by three degrees Aug. in Psal 101. conc 2. Cùm audis hominem poenitere peccatorū suorū iam reuixit Cùm audis hominem confitendo proferre conscientiam suā iam de sepulchro eductus est sed nondū solutus est Quādo soluitur Math. 18. A quibus soluitur Quae folueritis inquit in terra erūt soluta in coelo When thou hearest that a man repēteth him of his sinnes that is by harty sorow and cōtrition now he is brought againe to life When thou hearest that a man by making his confession vttereth his conscience that is by confession either open or secret at the lest now he is brought foorth of the graue but he is not yet loosed When is he loosed Of whom is he loosed What thinges ye loose in earth saith he they shal be loosed also in heauen This Absolution is made by the Priest So that God calleth vs to life againe by inward contrition and we preuented with his grace come our selues to confesse yet if the Absolution of the Priest follow not we remaine stil bound I saie not that we are dead but we are bounde And verely as long as we are bound we can not enter into heauen For as Lazarus being called vp by Christ yet if he had either remained in the graue or if his winding sheete had not yet ben loosed as it was by the Apostles he should naturally haue ben stifled vp a fresh and haue died againe in his owne graue and bandes that he was tied withal euen so after cōtrition if confession and absolution folow not there is in deede a certaine seede beginning and towardnes of life but the man is choked vp in his owne bondes and can not enioy the lyfe which is begonne in him For Christ wil haue some ministerial part of penaunce done by his ministers in earth that his owne ordinance be not void and that the power he gaue them to remitte sinnes be not frustrate and superfluous This doctrine grounded vpon the holy Scriptures and so expounded by the learned Fathers and so practized by the Catholike Church is sound M. Iewel Knocke and beat at it as long as you wil you shal but cause it to be the better tried As for the gewgawes of Scholemen and Gloses which you bring in this matter I vtterly despise them It is wel knowen whatsoeuer the Schoolemen or Canonistes saie they taught not your sacrilegious Doctrine but would haue yelded to the holy general councels of Florence and of Trent where this our faith was discussed to the great admiration of al sober wittes in the worlde There I say mo Bishops and Doctours cōcluded that which we defend then you can bring Gloses or sophistical deuises against
it Of the povver of Priesthod He that listeth to see more of the necessitie of Confession maie resorte to M. Allens learned booke of the lawful power of Priesthod to remitte sinnes The fifth booke conteineth a Detection of M. Iewelles errours lies sclaunders c. touching the Marriages of Priestes and Votaries the Canonical Scriptures the Sacramentes and other pointes of Doctrine The wordes of the Apolagie In the Defence 2. parte ca. 8. Diuision 1. Pag. 163. VVe saie that Matrimonie is holy and honourable in al sortes and states of personnes as in the Patriarkes in the Prophetes in the Apostles in the holy Martyrs in the Ministers of the Churche and in Bishoppes and that it is an honest and lavvful thing as Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in matrimonie to take vpō him therevvith the dignitie of a Bishop Confutation fol. 73. b. Matrimonie is holy and honorable in al persons and an vndefyled bedde as sayth S. Paule Hebre. 13. Yet is it not lawful for them to marye whiche either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated almaner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy order For the vowed be forbidden mariage by expresse word of God Those that haue taken holy orders by tradition of the Apostles and auncient ordinaunce of the Church Touching the first the Scripture is plaine bicause a vowe is to be performed Psal 75. Vouete reddite Domino Deo vestro Vowe ye and paye or render that ye vowe to your Lorde God Christ also sayeth in the gospel Matt. 19. there be some eunuches that haue made them selues eunuches for the kingdome of heauens sake He that can take let him take Vovve-breakers in vvhat danger they stād 1. Tim. 5. Againe S. Paul speaking of young widowes which haue vowed and promised chastitie sayeth that when they waxe wanton against Christ they wil mary hauing damnation bicause they haue broken their first faith Whether these scriptures perteine hereto and be thus to be vnderstanded we referre vs to the primitiue Church and to al the holy Fathers * Frō starre to starre leafte out of M Ievels booke VVhat the Fathers haue iudged of mariages after vovv of chastitie De bono viduitatis Whosoeuer haue thus vowed chastitie or by receiuing holy orders haue bound them selues to the bond of cōtinencie to the same by auncient constitution of the Church annexed if afterward presuming to marye excuse the satisfying of their carnal lust with the name of wedlocke be they men be they women they liue in a damnable state and be worse then Aduouterers * Suche mariages or rather slydinges and falles frō the holier Chastitie that is vowed to God S. Augustine doubteth not but they be worse then aduowtries S. Cyprian calleth this case plaine incest S. Basile accompteth the mariages of vailed Virgins to be void of no force and facrilegious She that hath dispoused her selfe to our Lorde sayeth S. Basile is not free lib. de virginitate For her husband is not dead that she may mary to whom she list And whiles her immortal husband lyueth she shal be called an aduoutresse whiche for lustes of the flesh hath brought a mortal man into our Lordes chamber * Leaft out by M. Iev The case is like in the man And whereas such persons with deliberate vowe purposed to consecrat them selues to our Lord only maides by virginitie widowes by chastitie of widowehod priestes by single life and continencie they may not with good conscience marye bicause the lust of the flesh foloweth not that former purpose but draweth the soule to her vices from that whereto it is bounde For what so euer is the worke sayeth S. Basile before whiche reason and lawe goeth not in the mynde the same is of the conscience noted for vnlawful Of al such after many wordes vttered in reproufe of their lewdnes he concludeth that they folow not wedlocke but aduoutrie But for proufe that vowed persons may not marye it were not hard to alleage so muche out of the fathers as would fil a volume * Clerkes boūde to cōtinēcie Li. 1. c. 11 Paphutius Li. 1. c. 23. Touching the second the Apostles forbidde those that come single to the Clergie to marye except such as remaine in the inferiour orders and procede not to the greater as we find in their canons Can. 25. Paphnutius as Socrates and Sozomenus record in their Ecclesiastical storie said at the Nicene Councel that it was an old tradition of the Church that such as come to the degree or order of Priesthod single should not marye wiues And this is that holy Bishop Paphnutius whom these Euangelical vowe-breakers pretend to be their proctour for their vnlawful mariages * Leaft out by M. Iev Siritius and Innocentius vver not the first ordeiners of clerkes cōtinēcie Neither Pope Siritius and Innocentius the first who liued long aboue a thousand yeres past were the first makers of the lawe that forbiddeth Priestes to marie but declaring that the same was of olde time ordeined and vsed of the Church they condemne the disorders against the same committed * Reade who list the epistle of Siritius ad Himerium Tarraconensem cap. 7. the second epistle of Innocentius to Victricius Bishop of Roen cap. 9. and his third epistle to Exuperius B. of Tolouse cap. 1. and weighing wel these places he shal perceiue that these holy Popes forbad the ministers of the Church the vse of wedlocke by the same reason by which the priestes of Moses lawe were forbidden to come within their owne houses in the time when their course came to serue in the holy ministeries By the same reason also by whiche S. Paule required maried folke for a time to forbeare the vse of their wiues 1. Cor. 7. that they might attend praying The place of S. Chrysostome alleaged by this Defender wel considered Ansvver to Chrysostoms place disproueth no part of the Catholike doctrine in this hehalfe but condemneth both the doctrine and common practise of his companions these newe fleshly Gospellers His wordes be these vpon the saying of S. Paule In 1. cap. ad Tit. homil 2. that a Bishop ought to be without crime the husband of one wife The Apostle sayeth he stoppeth the mouthes of Heretikes which condemne mariage shewing that it is not an vncleane thing but so reuerent that with the same a man may ascend to the holy throne or seate he meant the state of a Bishop and herewith he chastiseth and restraineth the vnchast persons Tvvise married may not be Bishops ād vvhy Secōd mariages lauful yet open to accusations Leaft out by M. Iev not permitting thē who haue twise maried to atteine such a rome For whereas he kepeth no beneuolēce toward his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour Yea what greuous accusations shal not he be subiect vnto daily For ye al knowe right wel that albeit by the lawes the secōd mariages be permitted yet that
make vs one Pope who is neither Priestes nor laie maÌ„nes sonne nor any maÌ„nes sonne at al. What a maruelous Prophet then was M. Iewels Damasus that could thus prophecie of so many Popes so long to come after his death and tel who should be their fathers so many yeres before their great GraÌ„dfathers were borne If for some excuse you say that this much you found in Gratian Distinct 56. it caÌ„ not helpe you The printed Gratian hath neither this forme of wordes nor this order of names nor so many Popes names by three For he hameth not Iohn 10. nor Iohn 15. nor Adrian 2. So that you must take it vpon you your selfe and beare the shame of it And what if the book of Gratian had it as you haue alleged Doo you not know that such thinges in Gratian be of no authoritie sometimes which be rehersed vnder this worde Palea Palea Palea good Reader is asmuche to say as Chaffe and where so euer this word Palea Chaffe is put in Gratian by the same it is signified as some doo iudge that the saying immediatly folowing is with litle iudgement infarced and that it is litle worth as Chaffe is litle worth in coÌ„parison of cleane wheate Such Chaffe and vaine fables M. Iewel is dryuen to take holde of to mainteine his brothers filthinesse for lacke of better stuffe And were it true that these Popes or some of them whose names be founde here in Gratians Chaffe were Priestes sonnes yet had he benne a true dealer in this cause he should not so vniustly haue conceeled what the Glose saith in the same place specially seing that he is so wel acquainted with the Glose and furnisheth his great booke specially and aboue al other Doctours with the stuffe of the Glose Thus there we finde Distinct 56. in Glossa Omnia ista exempla intellige de ijs qui in Laicali statu vel minoribus ordinibus orationibus parentum suscepti sunt quando suis parentibus licebat vti vxoribus suis Vnderstande thou al these examples of them that were receiued at Goddes hande by the prayers of their fathers being in the state of laie menne or in the lesser Orders when their fathers might lawfully vse their wiues Thus for any thing you haue brought hitherto is your Great Poste of Priestes Marriages thwited to a pudding pricke As for that whiche after al this you pretende to allege out of AEneas Syluius AEneas Syluius whom you cal Pope Pius whereas at the time when he wrote De gestis Concilij Basiliensis he was neither Pope nor Pius and out of Polydorus Vergilius Polydorus Vergil the late Prebendarie of Poules in London whom in the Chronicles you reporte falsly and laste of al out of fabling Fabian Fabian the late Merchant of London a man of smal learning and of as litle authoritie in these pointes though a special fauourer of your side as it is tolde and therefore the readier to reporte vntruth I am sure menne of meane knowledge wil litle esteme and I accompt it not worth the answering Make the best you can of it thereby perhaps or by some part of it ye may proue that of Married menne some were made Bishops which as I haue oftentimes tolde you we denie not but that Bishoppes or Priestes were euer in any wel ordered Churche permitted to marrie you shal neuer be hable to proue Now that you haue laid your two Principles as you cal them let vs see how substancially you defende your foure pointes aboue mencioned And first that it is lawful to marry after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken shewe vs by what learning or authoritie ye proue it Iewel First of al his obiection of Vovves nothing toucheth the Clergie of England For it is knovven and confessed that the Priestes of England vvere neuer Vâ—taries Yet for further ansvver vve graunte it is reason and conuenient that vvho so hath made a Vovve vnto God should keepe his promise Cyril in Leuitic Lib. 3. Cyrillus saith Si castitatem promiserit seruarâ— non poterit pronunciet peccatum suum If he haue promised 〈…〉 vvovved Chastitie and can not keepe it let him pronounce and confesse his Sinne. Harding How long wil you go about the bush as they say when come you to the purpose These bye matters not touched in my ConfutatioÌ„ haue made your booke great but the same geue euidence that you put more truste in multitude of wordes then in substance of matter If ye had the cleare truthe on your side what needed so many wordes One plaine sentence might haue better serued you That you wander not abroad here once againe I cal you home and require you to leaue your delaies and answer to the very point or to confesse your errour Remember my wordes of the Confutation be these It is not lawful for them to marrie Confutat fol. 73. b. which either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated al manner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy Order Ouer against these my wordes you haue placed in the margent of your booke this note with your starre Defence pag. 163. Vntruthes two together as better appeareth by the Answeare By which you charge my saying with two Vntruthes Of such notes your booke hath great stoare But God be thanked the world seeth you are ryfer of vpbraidinges and sclaunders then of substantial proufes Nowe by your note you haue bounde your selfe to shewe vs that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie likewise also after the holy Orders taken Before you came to proue either of these two pointes you tel vs that the Priestes of England were neuer Votaries that is to say that they neuer made Vow of single life and chastitie whereby to binde them selues not to marrie Neuer is a long daie M. Iewel Wel be it as it is If they be not Votaries they may marrie say you But answer directly to the point I pray you M. Ievvel ful coldly maketh that but reasonable and coÌ„uenieÌ„t that is necessary May they marrie who haue vowed chastitie Say yea or nay VVee graunte say you it is reason and conuenient that who so hath made a Vowe vnto God should keepe his promise This is somewhat though it be coldely spoken But yet you must come nearer vnto the point You speake generally and faintly We speake not of a Vowe or promise in general If a man make a promise to an other man it is reason and conuenient that he keepe it But how saie you to the vow of chastitie deliberatly made of man or woman to God Is it in any wise necessary to perfourme it or no If it be necessary why speake ye so coldly it is reason and conuenient What meane you by your reason and conuenience Is it any more but that if a Moncke or a Frier feele him selfe moued with luste he shal by and by take a woman vnder pretense of Wedlocke and so
Deacons Marriage was not made firste allowable after that he was promoted to the Order of Deaconship but before he receiued that holy Order For if he made no protestation that he would marrie and asked no licence thereto but helde his peace by the wordes that follow in the same Canon it is cleare that he bound himselfe to perpetual continencie and might neuer marrie afterwarde as he that had by taking that Order professed and promised chastitie Those wordes are these which you should haue rehersed had you dealt truly and vprightly Quicunque Diaconi tacuerunt c. Concil Ancyran cap. 10. What Deacons so euer helde their peace when they tooke Orders and receiued the laying on of the Bisshoppes hande so hauing made their profession of continencie if afterwarde they come to marrie they shal be bound to ceasse from the ministerie The case of our Apostates is not like vnto this case He that made his Protestation that he would marrie and that for necessitie and had licence of the Bishop when he married in deede was suffered to remaine in the Ministerie as they that were admitted vnto holy Orders with wedlocke For he seemed already in harte and affecte a married man And such that Prouincial Councel did beare withal when for lacke of other worthy menne the more parte yet remaining in infidelitie the Bishops were compelled to admitte to the Ministerie of the Churche married menne Your brethren can not claime by this example For they neuer made any suche protestation when they were ordered neither demaunded they euer any such licence of their Bishops but eche as they felt them selues moued with the spirite of luste vpon warrāt of your Gospel and their owne spirite went lustily to their yoke felowes and vnder pretence of Marriage concluded a lusty bargaine If ye haue no better stuffe then this for the marriage of the Apostates your companions wel you may receiue your fee of them verely it is not yet sufficiently defended Iewel So saith Pope Steuin Dist 31. Aliter Graecorum Sacerdotes Diaconi aut Subdiaconi Matrimonio copulantur The Greeke Priestes Deacons or Subdeacons are coupled in Matrimonie Glos dist 31. Aliter Vpon vvhich vvordes the Glose noteth thus Multi ex hac litera dixerunt quòd Orientales possunt contrahere in Sacris Ordinibus Many haue said vpon occasion of this texte that the Priestes of the East Church contrary to that M. Harding so certainly here assureth vs may marrie being vvithin holy Orders Harding Diuersitie betvven the East and vvest Churche touching libertie of Clerks mariages Had you rehersed the whole Decree as you found it you had marred your cause and plaid a simple Proctour Your married brethren therefore do commend your police I doubt not who see their marriage condemned by that Decree of Pope Steuen ▪ The whole is this Aliter se Orientalium traditio haebet Ecclesiarum aliter huius Sancta Romanae Ecclesiae Nā earum Sacerdotes Diacons aut Subdiaceni Matrimonio copulātur Istius autem Ecclesiae vel Occidentalium nullus Sacerdotum à Subdiacon◠vsque ad Episcopum licentiam habet coniugium sortiendi The Tradition of the East Churches is otherwise then is the tradition of this holy Romaine Church For their Priestes Deacons or Subdeacons are coupled in matrimonie ▪ but there is neuer a Priest of this Church or of the weast partes that from a Subdeacon to a Bishop hath licence to marrie By this Decree it is euidēt that so many as from a Subdeacon to a Bishop do marrie in these weast partes doo contrary to the Tradition and order of the Church And whereas you allege the Glose for you you make al that be hable to reade the place witnesses of your impudēcie For it maketh altogether against you First whereas the Decree hath Matrimonio copulantur asmuche to say the Priestes Deacons or Subdeacons of the East Church are coupled in Matrimonie the Glose expoundeth it thus and that truly id est copulato viūtur that is to say they vse Matrimonie wherein they were coupled before they tooke orders As for the other wordes of the Glose Multi ex hac litera dixerūt c. Many vpon occasion of this text haue said that they of the East Chucrh may marrie within holy Orders it is not the minde of the Glose but a some say as I may terme it and a fansie of certaine whom the author of the Glose there confuteth with these woordes immediatly folowing which by your cōmon sleight of falsifying you nipte away from the end of the sentēce Sed eis obstat infrà Distinctio proxima Si quis eorū c. But the nexte distinction that foloweth whose beginning is Si quis eorū is contrary to their opinion Distin 32. Si quis eorum That nexte Distinction taken out of the sixth Councel hath thus Si quis eorū qui ad Clerū accedūt voluerit nuptiali iure mulieri copulari hoc ante ordinationē Subdiaconatus faciat If any of them that come vnto the Clergie be willing to couple with a woman in right of Marriage let him do it before he be made Subdeacon Vpon that place the Glose saith thus whereunto it made relation in the former Distinction Istud caput euidēter est cōtra illos qui dicūt quòd Graci possunt cōtrahere in sacris ordinibus This Chapter is euidētly against them which say that the Greekes may marrie being within holy Orders Lo M. Iewel what haue you gained by the Glose he that examineth your bookes specially that of your late pretensed Defence wil say with me there was neuer such a false Gloser as you are by abusing al other writers that you allege but specially the poore Glose vpon Gratian. Iewel Of the Priestes of the vvest Churche Cardinal Caietane saith Papa potest dispensare cum Sacerdote Occidentalis Ecclesiae Catharinus contra errores Caietani errore 103. vt vxorem ducat nulla existēte causa publicae vtilitatis The Pope may dispense vvith a Priest of the vvest Churche to marrie a vvife although there be no manner cause of common profite Harding It goeth harde with you M. Iewel when you haue no better testimonies for the Marriage of Priestes then the Obiections which the Glose maketh to him selfe and the errour of Caietaine at least whiche Catharinus noteth for an errour But to whom wil you sticke To Catharinus or to Caietanus If to Catharinus then Caietane helpeth your cause nothing at al. Caietan in Opusc lib. 5. tractatu 27. For of Catharinus it is condemned for an errour If you sticke to Caietane then you disannul Catharinus who is your author For els you must tel vs where Caietane saith so and vpon what groundes he saith so vvhether the Pope may dispense vvith a Priest or religious person to marrie in a case Touching the Question whether the Pope may in a case dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or a religious man
to marrie a wife or no here I dispute not I confesse the Single state of the Clergie not to be Iuris Diuini expressely but Iuris Ecclesiastici positiui And to say that the Pope may in no case at al dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or with a religious person to marrie it is against the Diuines against the Canonistes and against the authoritie Raymeriâ— made kiÌ„g of AragoÌ„ of a MoÌ„ke and married by dispensation See the historie of Franciscus Tarapha which the Churche of Rome hath in some cases vsed de facto as they speake as it is knoweÌ„ by the example of Raymeris the king of Aragon in Spaine with whom about the yere of our Lorde 1160. the Pope dispensed yea he compelled him as we reade to geue ouer the Profession of his Religion and to marrie whiche is more then to dispense with a secular Priest for sauing of Christian bloud and for the necessary disposition of that kingdom The like example happened in the kingdome of Pole Casimirus the onely that remained a liue of the kinges bloud Munster Cosmographiae lib. 3. in Schlesia lib. 4. in Polonia Mart. Cromerus being a Moonke and a Deacon by sute of the Nobles of that realme Dispensation of the Pope obteined was taken out of his monasterie of the Order of Cisterce made Kinge of Pole and married But suche a singular case maketh no common rule Againe where a thing is not done but by special dispensation the dispensation it selfe argueth the same of it selfe that is to say considered without dispensation to be vnlawful Therefore my Assertion that no man may marrie after holy Orders receiued and that such Marriage was neuer accompted lawful in the Catholique Churche standeth true as before Iewel Athanasius saith Athanas ad Dracontium Multi quoque ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierunt Monachi contrà Parentes liberorum facti sunt Many of the Bisshoppes he saith not al but many haue not married By vvhiche vvoordes he geueth vs to vnderstande that some haue married contrarievvise Monkes haue becomme fathers of Children Harding This testimonie is bodged with your forged Parentheses Whereby you signifie that of it selfe and without addition of your owne wordes it helpeth you litle Al standeth vpon trial of the translation If you could haue alleged S. Athanasius owne wordes as he wrote in Greeke a right answere might soone be made The translatour litle thinking of their sleightes that be Proctours for the Marriages of Votaries had rather hauing respect to the finenesse of the Latine so to turne it then otherwise If the place were thus latined Multi ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierant or non habuerunt Monachi contrà parentes liberoruÌ„ extiterunt whereby is signified that many Bishops had neuer contracted Marriages and that some Monkes had ben fathers of children if the place had thus benne turned as I suppose the Greeke hath it would haue serued you to no purpose For I graunt you that some bishops haue had wiues but before they were made Bishops as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes father and Gregorie of Nyssa S. Basils brother and that some Monkes were fathers of children whiche they begote in lawful wedlocke before they entred into that profession and order of life Albeit if we allowed you this translation for good and true according to the Greeke yet of these woordes you can not conclude that by iudgement of S. Athanasius the Marriages of bishops are accompted lawful by the circuÌ„stance of the place in that Epistle to Dracontius S. Athanasius may seeme to speake those wordes in dispraise of certaine Bishops and Monkes and not at al in their commendation and so you ought not to allege it for an allowed example But hereof we shal be more assured if they of Basile wil sette foorth that Fathers workes in Greeke Iewel Pag. 176. Cassiodorus vvriteth thus Cassio li. 6. cap. 14 In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they say Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria died in Martyrdom hauing married a vvise a litle before being as yet in manner a nevv married man Harding A man would thinke if this wil not serue the turne that nothing wil serue A blessed man Eupsychius bishop of Caesaria a holy Martyr married to a wise but a litle before his Martyrdome The writer of the Storie Cassiodorus a noble man and graue Senator of Rome a man of good credite What can a man desire more But phy vpoÌ„ such shamelesse falsifiers O lamentable state A falshod in excusable and in tollerable of M. Ievv where the people of God be coÌ„pelled to heare such false Prophetes What wil he feare to speake in pulpite where he is sure no man shal control him that is not ashamed thus to write in bookes openly published vnto the world which he knewe should not escape the examination of his Aduersaries The truth is good Reader Neither Cassiodorus wrote thus nor Eupsychius was euer Bishop of Caesaria nor of any other place nor so much as a Priest Deacon or Subdeacon The writer of the Storie which we haue of this blessed Martyr Eupsychius is Sozomenus the Greeke Who with the Ecclesiastical Storie of Socrates and Theodoritus was translated into Latine by one Epiphanius Scholasticus out of whiche three Cassiodorus gathered the AbridgemeÌ„t that we haue vnder the name of the Tripartite historie Histor Tripartit lib. 6. c. 14 The place truly reported hath these wordes In illo tempore ferunt vitam finisse Martyrio Basilium Ecclesiae Ancyranae Presbyterum Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae ducta nuper vxore cùm adhuc quasi Sponsus esse videretur They say that at that time Basiliê° a Priest of the Church of Ancyra ended his life in Martyrdom Also Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia hauing married a wife a litle before and when as yet he seemed to be but a new married man Here is no mencion made that Eupsychius was the bishop of Caesaria The storie as we haue it in Latine of Epiphanius turning calleth him only Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae that is to say Eupsychius a maÌ„ of Caesaria that is in Cappadocia whiche is added to signifie of whiche Caesaria he was for that there was an other famous Citie of that name in Palestina an other likewise in Mauritania and others moe in other countries Sozomenus him selfe who is the authour of the Storie addeth a worde more signifying of what estate and condition he was whereby the opinion of his being the Bishoppe of Caesaria is quite taken awaye For thus he reporteth of him in the Greeke Sozomen lib. 5. c. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. EupsychiuÌ„ Caesariensem Cappadociae PatriciuÌ„ asmuch to say Eupsychius of Caesaria in Cappadocia a nobleman or one of the Lordes of the Citie Thus is Eupsychius whom M. Iewel hath made a Bishop as much as
he is him selfe founde to be a Laie gentleman or noble man of the Citie of Caesaria And whereas he married a wife but a litle before his Martyrdome what is that to the purpose for proufe that it was in olde time lawful for Priestes to marrie Bicause M. Iewel knew this muche rightwel contrary to the custome he vseth at other times he dissembled the greeke Original and thought he might better father this shameful lye vpon Cassiodorus meaning the latine Translation of Epiphanius And to helpe the matter An impudent falsifying he stickte not to put in this word Episcopum Bishop of his owne and so calleth him boldely Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria Let these menne haue leaue thus to corrupte and falsifie the Fathers and by them they shal be hable to proue what they liste M. Iewel standeth so muche in his owne conceit for the example of this Eupsychius Nicephorus belyed by M. Ievv Defence pag. 514. that for proufe of this very matter he bringeth it in againe in an other place in his pretensed Defence of his Apologie But there he allegeth it out of Nicephorus His wordes be these Nicephorus saith that Eupsychius being a Priest at Caesaria in Cappadocia married a wife a litle before that he was martyred Now let vs heare Nicephorus tel his owne tale Nicephorus lib. 1â— cap. 20. Thus he saith in like sorte as Sozomenus said before him Hoc ipso tempore Basilius Ancyranae Ecclesiae Praesbyter martyrio est defunctus atque item Caesariensis Eupsychius Cappadox veteri familia locoque claro natus At the very same time Basilius a Priest of the Church of Ancyra died a martyr Euen so likewise did Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia borne of an auncieÌ„t howse and of noble pareÌ„tage Thus hath M. Iewel belied and falsified both Sozomenus and his translator and also Nicephorus Let vs see what substantial witnesse he bringeth for legitimation of his Priestes Marriage in the last place Dist 84. Cum in praeteritâ— in Glossa Iewel Likevvise M. Harding might haue founde it noted in his ovvne Glose 〈…〉 M. Ieâ—el saith of my 〈…〉 seemeth â–ª that than he 〈…〉 Nicepherus spâ—…king of the two Apollinarâ—s Father and Sonne both heretiques Apollinaris the elder not married after he was made Priest saith Pâ—ter Presbyters filius Lectâ—ris ordineâ—â—…tiâ—ebat the Father obteined the Order of a Priest the sonne of a Pâ—â—â—der Of this it seemeth not that the father was married after thâ—â— he obteined to be a Priest but rather contrariwise that he was married before he was Priest For Niâ—â—phâ—râ—â— saith the father obteined to be a Priest whereby he seemeth to signifie if we may say what seemeth to vs that he was a father before he was made Priest and not first a Priest and afterward married and so made a father But perhaps M. Iewel gâ—â—herâ—th his seeming of these wordes following in Nicephorus Senex Alexandriaeâ—riâ—â— Beryti dâ—câ—it â—ucta Laodicia coniâ—gâ— Apollinariâ— filiâ—… progeâ—â—it â—smuche to say The olde mâ—â— was borne at Alâ—xandria â—â—ught aâ— Berytuâ— married a wife at Laodiceâ— and begâ—â—â— Apollinaris his sonne Of this order of wordes he can concludâ— no more that the older Apollinaris was married after that he was Priest then that he was borne at Alexandria after that he was an old man If he could proue that he was an old man bâ—â—ore he begote the yonger Apollinaris and that he was Priest before he came to Laodicea when he married then should he seeme to proue that an Heretique was married after he was Priest as many be now adaies Vntil he proue so much which sâ—â—l a 〈◊〉 this his seeming 〈◊〉 seeme litle worth Chrysost in Epist. 1 ad Timo. Homil. 1â— Iewel Chrysostome speaking of the Marriâ—ge of Bishops saith thus Quamuis nuptie pluâ—imum diâ—â—â—uâ—tatis in sâ— habâ—â—â—â— ita tamen assumi possunt 〈◊〉 perfectiori vitae impedimento non sint Notwithâ—â—â—â—â—ing marriage haue in it much trâ—â—ble yet so it may be taken that â—…shalbe no hinderance to perfite life He saith marriage may be takâ—â— or chosen and he speaketh namely of the marriage of Priestes and Bishoppes Harding Why nipte you of the ende of the sentence M. Iewel M. Ievvel nippeth of vvordes of his doctor Though you nor your good brethren the married Apostates like not wel of them yet for true dealinges sake you should not so haue gelded your Doctor of the wordes that so iointly hang to the sentence by you alleged They be these It is a hard thiÌ„g that marriage should not be a lette vnto the perfites life by iudgemeÌ„t of S. Chrysostom Verum id planè perquam rarò atque difficile Marriage may be so taken that it shal not be a lette vnto the perfiter life so much goeth before but certainly that is a thing very seldome and of great difficultie Doo ye heare syr what your owne Doctor saith That marriage be not an impediment vnto perfiter life which Priestes doo professe it is very seldome seene and a thing of very great difficultie saith your Chrysostome Here good Reader that thou be not begyled I must tel thee this muche Whereas M. Iewel beareth thee in hand that S. Chrysostome saith Marriage may be taken or chosen and that of Priestes and Bishops for of their Marriage he speaketh saith this manne al this is false M. Ievvel buildeth his prouf vpoÌ„ a forged sentence added vnto S. Chrysostome For first vnderstand thou this sentence is not in S. Chrysostome at al not in the Greeke I saie in which tongue only he wrote For I haue seene the Greeke and diligently conferred it my selfe But it is added vnto his texte either by the translation or by falshod vsed at the printing as in these corrupte times false printers haue corrupted many bookes of the olde Fathers Yet this muche wil I say of this sentence that it may right wel stand without any euil mâ—â—ning gathered of it though 〈…〉 be not S. Chrysostomâ—â— the Greeke examples supposed to be true For the Circumstance of the place beareth it to be spoken not specially of the Marriage of Priestes and Bishoppes as M. Iewel taketh it in this place but of Marriage indefinitely and generally as it maie be proued if there were nothing elles to proue it by the same M. Iewel in an other place namely in the page 179. before where he saith thus in the first line of that page S. Chrysostome saith generally of al menne Quamuis nâ—ptia plurimum difficultatis habeant c. Thus M. Iewel in the 514. page is confuted by M. Iewel in the 179. page Of such Contradictions he hath good stoare That it may appeare the plainer thus is it that we reade in S. Chrysostome Iâ— prim cap Titi. hom 2. Si igitur qui vxorem duxit c. Then if it be so that he which hath married a wife be careful for the thinges of the worlde and of conuenience a Bishop should not be touched
the Vow like as the Order and hâ—bâ—â—e of Monkes by which â—aâ—e al religious be vnderstanded hath Chastitie â—â—nexed by 〈…〉 that institutâ—d the habite and the â—â—le for monkes to 〈…〉 in and therfore he that receiueth it is said therewith to make a Vow coÌ„sequently â—â—â—en so holy Order among the Latines or thereof the West Church by the Churches coÌ„stitution hath 〈◊〉 anneâ—â—d inseperably and therfore who so euer tâ—kâ—th it willingly bindeth him selfe therunto in fact and deede though no word of the boâ—d be spoken So â—hâ—t this bâ—nde procedeth both of the statute of the Câ—â—â—â—â—â—nd of the Vow VVhat meaneth Caietane by this vvorde Absolutely And for this considâ—ration the 〈…〉 Priestâ—â— is vnlawful Buâ— speaking â—bsoâ—â—tâ—ly saiâ—h 〈…〉 that is to say if there were no such stature of the 〈◊〉 nor Vow at â—et in this case â—f â— Prieâ—st â—â—rried for any thing that is in reason 〈…〉 in th◠〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 presse Scriptures to the contâ—… he â—ould not sinne Wherby he signifieth that the case â—…tanding as it doth Priestes marriage is vnlawful Now remaineth M. Iewels last proufe of this matter Iewel 〈◊〉 likewise Anselmus saith in a Dialogue betvvene the Maister â—…d the Scholare touching these matters Anselmus in Dialog Inquisitione prima Desideramuâ— certificari tua solâ—tione super vulgari in toto orbe quaestione quae ab omnibus penè quotidie ventilatur adhuc lis indiscussa celatur Scilicet an liceat presbyteris post acceptum ordinem vxores ducere VVe are dâ—sirous by your ansvver to be certified about this common question that is novv tossed through the vvorlde and as yet lieth vndiscussed I meane vvhether a Priest being vvil his Orders may marrie a vvife Hereby a appeareth that in the time of Aâ—selmus vvhich vvas aboue a thousand yeres after Christe this matter laye in question and vvas not yet discussed Harding Anselmus wrote three Dialogues Anselmus vvrongfully made a spokesman for the Apostates marriage in which he maketh the Maister and the Scholare to talke together The first is De Veritate the second De Libero Arbitrio the third De Casu Diaboli An other Dialogue he wrote also of an other matter in which he appointeth for talkers together Anselmus and Beso Moe Dialogues he neuer wrote for ought that can appeare by the workes that be extant in printe vnder his name And in these neither in any of these there is no such Dialogue betwene the Maister and the Scholare touching these matters as you say And whereas you haue in the Maigent of your booke Inquisitione prima I maie inquire for suche an Inquisition a longe time before I finde it for there is no suche thing at al among his Dialogues Whether Frier Bale Illyricus or some other suche gatherer of Rifferaffe haue deceiued you or of your selfe you were disposed in this place to 〈…〉 youâ— owne inuention I wâ—◠〈…〉 cal it plâ—â—â—e lying I knowe â—ot certainly amongest 〈…〉 printed workes there is no sâ—ch Dialogue to be founde But if there were any such what should that releiue your sory causes If the Maister had in good soâ—â—h so tolde the Scholarâ— it had â—en some what Now thâ—t 〈…〉 Scholare saith it is a common question and much tossâ—d betwen menne and as yet lyeth vndiscussed what other thing doth the Author by these wordes but prouoke the Readers attention that the Answer be the more diligeÌ„tly weighed and considered of You knowe M. Iewel the writers of suche Dialogues may make the demaunder to talke what they liste Neither is any thing to be auouched for true or false the sooner bicause the demauÌ„der so reporteth By this you may see that the author had a desire to discusse this matter by the Scholars mouing of the question you can not argue that at that time this point was so muche in question And whereas by the aâ—thors fictioÌ„ the Scholare saith it was then a common question and laie vndiscussed by that a maâ— may ghessâ— that in Anselmus time suche as whom it becâ—me to be Scholars and not Maisters were busy in common table talke aboute suche questions as the like personnes now a daies occupie their heades and wheat their tongues aboute the like and other questions of greater weight wh◠〈◊〉 them selues in their bolde and stoâ—â—â—â—ssâ—â—erations more like maisters theâ—… Scholars And againe whereas the Scholare in the pretensed Dialogue said that question laie as yet vndiscussed it is to be referred to those daies and to the compâ—ssâ— of that time sineâ—â—hiche that matter in that age beganne to 〈…〉 in question Thereof you may not conclude that it was neuer before discussed in Christes Church for the spâ—ce of a thousand yeres as you thereof would seme to gâ—ther For among learned men and the gouernours of Christes Churche it was euer from the Apostles time certaine and without al controuersie that Priestes being in holy Orders might not marrie And this is al that M. Iewel was hable to bring for proufe that Priestes and who so euer haue Vowed Chastitie may marrie Let vs see further how wel he defendeth his Apologie against my Confutation touching this matter The Apologie cap. 8. Diuision 2. And as Sozomenus saith of Spiridion and as Nazianzene saith of his 〈…〉 Father vve saie that a good and diligent Bishop doth serue in the ministerie neuer the vvorse for that he is married but rather the better and vvith more hablenes to doo good The Confutation fol. 76. a. Were it not that the weight of these matters required an vpright and plaine dealing for ciuilities sake I could be content sometimes to spare you and where ye make manifest lyes to vse a softer word and terme them fittens Lying much vsed of this defender But now if I tel you that you vse your accustomed figure pseudologia which is lying in plaine english I trust you wil beare with my plainenes amend your owne fault and coÌ„sider the power of truth that causeth me to be so bold with you This I am sure of that neither Sozomenus nor Gregorie Nazianzene Sozomenas Gregorie Nazianzene nor Eusebius lib. 10. cap. 5. as you haue caused your bookes both Latine and English to be noted in the margent where ye mistake Eusebius for Rufâ—â—uâ—â—oâ— Nâ—â—iaâ—◠〈◊〉 â—â—ther iâ— Mâ—…nodia Eusebius belyed by the aucthour of the Apologie as you note also in thâ— margent nâ—r in the fuâ—… oration that he made of his fathâ—â— hath any such saying as ye report of them For how could they say that a bisâ—â—â— serueth in his ministerie neuer the worse but rather the better and with more ablenes to do good for that he is maried the Scripture being so plaine to the contraryâ—… What wene ye they were either so ignorant or so forgetful or so much inclined to promote your carnal doctrine of priestes mariages as to say so not withstanding that S. Paule writeth to the Corinthians A bishop is not able to do his ministerie the
better for that he is maried to a vvife Saith he not of them that be maried that such shal haue tribulation of the flesh Saieth he not he that is without a wife careth for the thinges of our Lord how he may please God Of him that hath a wyfe saieth he not that he careth for the thinges that be the worldes how he may please his wife and is diuided finally sayth he not I tel you this thing for your profite not to tangle you in a snare but for that which is honest and comely vnto you and that which may geue you readines to praye to God without lette Wherfore recant for shame that fowle errour that a bishop serueth the better in his ministerie and is the more able to do good for that he is maried Leaft out by M. I. * Verily here ye seme to be of the flesh rather then of the spirite Neither are ye to be called any longer if ye mainteine this doctrine spiritual men as in times past they haue ben whose romes ye occupie but rather fleshly men * Such men such doctrine fleshly men fleshly doctrine Left out by M. Iev * Neither see I what ye can say for Defence of this doctrine onlesse ye bristle your selues against S. Paule and maugre his auctoritie affirme impudently that it is no lette for a Bishop from the seruice of God to haue the tribulation of the flesh that he may serue in 〈…〉 vocation better taking care for the thinges that be the worldes and seeking how to please his wife then if he studie for the thinges that be our Lordes and seeke how to please God that a man may do more good being by occasion of his wife diuided and distract then being whole and in him selfe vnited finally that a bishop shal serue the Church better being entangled and clogged with worldly affaires then hauing power and oportunite to pray to God without lette * Now therfore see you not how great is your impudencie in that you lye your selfe and father such a fowle lye vpon Sozomenus and that light of the world in his time Gregorie Nazianzene Left out by M. Ie. The place of Sozomenus examined * But for then dealing let vs heare what Sozomenus sayth concerning Spiridion For Rufine in the tenth booke added to Eusebius touching this matter reporteth nothing but that he had a daughter named Irene who died before her father a virgin * The wordes of Sozomenus be these Cap. 5. lib. 1. cap. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say Spiridion was a Husbandman hauing wife and children and yet for al that he was neuer the worse about Gods seruice Of this place we graunte ye may saye with Sozomenus that Spiridion serued God neuer the woorse for that he was married But how and whereof gather ye that he serued God the better and was more able to doo good because of his marriage Left out by M. Ie. * Now Spiridion Spiridion was a man of passing holinesse and in power and vertue surmounted al other menne of his time as one that wrought greate miracles and was taken for a prophete For Rufine where 〈◊〉 â—ompareth Pâ—plâ—â—utiuâ— with the Apostles Ecclesiast Histo lib. 10. cap. 4. 5. sâ—mâ—th to proâ—â—tes Spiridion before him If this one Saint of so great excellencie being made bishop of a maried man serued God neuer the worse for that he was maried wil ye therefore make a general doctrine that bishops and priestes shal maâ—y and that thereby they shal be no whit hindered from Gods seruice * Spiridion obteined that priuiledge through especial grace by his exceding veâ—â—ue which is graunted to fewe And the priuileges of a fewe make not a lawe for al in general ye knowe as Nazianzene saieth The place of Sozomenus alleaged by the defender maketh vtterly against them Leaft out by Mil. Furthermore if the wordes of Sozomenus that ye build youre annal doctrine vpoÌ„ be wel examined ye shal finde thâ—â— he maketh more against you then with you For signifying that he had wife and children he addeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yet for al that he was neuer the worse about Godâ— seruice This reuocation or exceptioÌ„ negatiue yet for al that c. implieth a coÌ„fession affirmatiue of the contrarie * As though by reason the sentence should beare this meaning He had wife and children and therefore was lesse apt and able to serue God in bishoply ministerie If there were no repugnance betwen the state of a bishop and mariage but the hauing of a wife were a better abling of a man to serue in that vocation as ye say then Sozomen us neither would nor should haue vsed that maner of speach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to say yet for al that but â—â—ther thus he should haue spoken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that this sence might rise of his wordes Spiridion was a husbandman hauing wife and children and therefore he was the better disposed and readier to serue God * Neither maketh the place of Gregorie Nazianzene â—…y what for you more then this of Sozomenus doth Nazianzenes vvordes returned vpon the defender whose wordes be these after the translation of Raphaâ—… Volaterranus varying much from the Greeke Hic Basilij pater Basilius item appellatus et si matrimonio se vinxit ita tamen in eo vixit vt nihil propterea ad perfectam virtutem ac Philosophiam consequendam impediretur Basiles father who was named also Basile although he put him selfe in bondes of matrimonie yet he liued so herein as he was letted no whit from the atteining of perfitte vertue and holy knowledge Were not marriage a lette and hinderance to perfection requisite in a Bishop this learned man could not rightly haue said ita tamen in eo vixit c. yet for al that he liued so c. Leaft out by M.I. * Bicause the hauing of a wife is a hinderance to perfection therefore of good reason in the praise of that holy Bishop who was married long before he tooke that degree yet notwithstanding saieth this writer he was not therefore letted from perfection By which manner of speach he acknowledgeth marriage in others to be a lette to perfection Who vnderstaÌ„deth not for what cause of these two speaches the one is reasonable the other absurd he is power yet for al that liberal and he is power yet for al that sparing The like consideration duly conceiued retourneth the auctoritie by this Defender alleaged against him selfe For the like absurditie is in this saying Basiles father was married yet for al that he was not thereby letted from perfection if for hauing a wife a man be the better able and readier to serue in the holy ministerie of a Bishop * Right so it is easy to put him from the holde he taketh of Chrysostome by Chrysostom him selfe For least my man should thinke Tit. 1. whereas S. Paule sayeth a Bishop ought to be the
But saith M. Iewel He that condemneth Marriage in a few Pag. 182. must likewise be called a condemner of Marriage Why sir doo you allow Mariage betwen the Father and the Daughter or betwen the Brother and the Sister If not then you condemne Marriage in a fewe It is to be knowen that Marriage is then forbidden when it is taught that a man hauing no impedimēt in his owne person or when there is no impediment in the person whom he would take is yet forbidden to marrie as if Marriage of it selfe were il or as if it were an il thing in it selfe a man to marrie There is impediment as of blould as betwen brother and sister so of Solemne Vow and of Religion as betwen a Priest and a Nonne or any other woman And as S. Paul doth allow the impediment of bloude counting him a great sinner who had his fathers wife 1. Cor. 5. so doth he allow the impediment of a vow when he saith that the yong widowes if they should be receiued into the number of those chast persons whom the Churche vsed to feede were like to haue damnation bicause they would desire to marie and so would in harte at the least breake their former faith or promise of perpetual Chastitie But saith he let yonge widowes marrie 1. Tim. 5. and bring forth children As who should saie If they were receiued into the solemne number of Widowes then they should make promise not to marrie and that promise perhaps they would breake if not openly yet in hart Thus it is no Deuils doctrine to teache that a person hauing once vowed can not marrie bicause he him selfe geueth the impediment and not the lawe of the Churche For that lawe was in S. Paules time as I now haue shewed after S. Chrysostoms minde Oecumenius saith Pactae sunt quòd Christo adiungerentur reijciunt autem ipsum ad humanas reuolutae nuptias Item pòst verùm quia hoc faciunt nubant seipsas Christo non despondeant They couenaunted that they would be ioined vnto Christe but they shake him of and turne them selues to humaine Marriages But bicause they doo so let them marrie on Goddes name let them not by Vow betroth them selues to Christe Marke Reader S. Paule would not haue them marrie after their profession of Chastitie that might not be in any wise and therefore he wil haue them not to be professed and so to marie Pag. 182. Pope Innocentius is belied he condemneth not Marriage but Incest and vnlauful Marriage and preferreth in Priestes and Deacons holy continencie before the satisfying of Carnal luste Likewise Pope Siricius is fowly belyed If thou deale not chastly yet deale charily Pag. 183. what is meant thereby and how reasonably it is said Infra li. 5. cap. 15. I shal hereafter declare in due place Where I shal cleare the Canonistes of the sclaunder you vtter against them of teaching the people that Simple fornication is no sinne whiche they neuer taught We saie not that men in Marriage can not please God but that such men can not please God who hauing promised by taking holy Orders that they wil liue chaste do breake their promise It is better to marrie in a case then to liue single to some man I graunt it is the auoyding of a greater euil but not of it selfe better For the Apostle saith he that ioyneth his virgin in Marriage doth wel 1. Cor. 7. but he that ioyneth her not doth better Whom God hath ioyned let no man sunder But God ne-neuer ioyned a Priest in Christes Church to a wife after his Priesthood bicause the mans owne facte and vow Pag. 185. is against his Marriage Againe he is alreadie married to Christe who liueth for euer and so whiles his firste spouse liueth he maie marrie no more that is S. Basils reason Although simple fornication be not now pounished with deposing the Priest yet it is not leafte vnpounished Last of al you repeate manie abuses of the Clergie which as in some part maie seme to arise and come of single life so I doubt not but if Priestes were commonly married the case would be muche worse Certainely seeing Christe said there are Eunuches Math. 19. who gelde them selues for the kingdom of heauen the Churche hath done right wel to reserue the highest order for them who do most force vnto them selues for heauens sake And seing S. Paule would haue al men chaste without Marriage as him selfe was muche more it is to be thought 1. Cor. 7. he would haue his owne Successours in the publike ministerie to be suche Againe if among married men he be meetest to be chosen Priest who hath had but one wife he yet were more meete who had none at al. If before Priesthod one wife be the most afterward one is to much If perfection and an Angels life be in most perfite chastitie that same is most meetest for Priestes who are the Angels of God If married persons ought to be apart for a time to haue the more leisour to praye and to communicate he that must stil attend the publike prayer and must bothe offer and minister the Communion had nede stil to absteine from wedlocke specially seing the Priestes of the lawe during the time of their ministerie did not companie with their wiues Eusebius and Epiphanius accompt those counselles and praises of single life which are in holy Scripture to apperteine to Priestes as to the most excellent degree and not vnto the Laie men as who are permitted to vse a lower state of perfection If no man that liueth in warfare to God doo wrappe him selfe in secular busines and yet S. Paul saith 1. Cor. 7. that the maried person doth thinke vpon the thinges of the world and is distracted thereby how conueniently hath the West Churche ordeined that he should only be made a Priest who by Gods grace is content to professe and leade a single life Or how can that Bishop or Priest wholy attend hospitalitie and almose dedes and the profit of his flocke and the setting vp of common schooles of vniuersities of hospitals and almose houses for the poore and such other like dedes of mercie and of publike profit who hath his wife and children to prouide for Had we now had in al England the furniture of Colleges and Scholes whiche God be praysed we haue and should yet haue had more had not the blaste of your Euangelical spirite ouerthrowen them if the Clergie had alwaies ben married Nay the married Bishops that now liue so merily and kepe such continual dalliance and cheere vpon other mennes paines and trauailes were nourished in the Vniuersities specially by their almose and foundations who were single and chaste Bishops and Priestes Thus though nothing be perfite in this life yet the single life of the two is more conuenient for the Clergie both by Gods Worde and by the experience of Ciuil policie Of the Canonical Scriptures the Worde
of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
onely in the Canonical Scriptures of the olde and new Testament mannes harte can haue setled reste Against this I bring the example of Abel Noe Abraham Isaac and Iacob and of those holy menne that liued before the time of Ezdras when the Scriptures were loste and here I demaund whether their hartes neuer founde setled reste For if reste be founde onely in the Scriptures how could they haue reste when no booke nor parte of the Scriptures was written If it be true as the coÌ„trarie can not be proued that Moyses was the first that euer wrote any parte of the Scriptures shal we iudge that al the holy Patriarches that were before that time had no setled reste in their hartes CoÌ„fut fol. 82. b. If this be true then say I had good Abel no better reste in his harte then wicked restlesse Cain As I said in my Confutation so for ought that M. Iewel is hable to bring in his Defence I saie here againe what foolish and absurde Doctrine is this Now how dooth M. Iewel defende this Doctrine of his Apologie What is his answere I wish no more but that it be read and coÌ„ferred with my CoÌ„futation here to write out al againe it were too long He slincketh awaie from his own wordes and by change of wordes maketh of it a new question M. Harding saith he saith further If quietnes of coÌ„science come of the word of God only then had Abel no more quietnes of coÌ„science then wicked rest lesse Cain You belie M. Harding as your custome is he saith not so Let the booke be trial betwen vs bothe The question is not whether mannes harte findeth his setled reste only in Goddes worde the quietnesse of the conscience was not spoken of but whether that reste you spake of in the Apologie be found only in the Scriptures In your Apologie ye said yea in my Confutation I saie nay And now in your Defence your selfe also saie Nay Galat. 2. and so ye destroie what ye builded before and therby proue your selfe a preuaricatour asmuch to say a false hartlot For in that now ye coÌ„ueigh the matter from the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new TestameÌ„t vnto Gods word what is this but a secrete recantatioÌ„ of your former false tale If your said former tale were true and might be mainteined why do you so shifte your handes of it are you a shamed to be accoumpted a Recantour and yet recante in deede Who seeth not great diuersitie betwen Gods word and the written Scriptures These be more special that is more general By skipping from the writteÌ„ Scriptures to Gods worde you thought to set your selfe at hâ—â—re libertie And yet hauing taken your libertie as it were by breaking loose out of your chaine neuer so much as you seme to geue ouer your former saying and to recant so you proue not your later saying You allege S. Chrysostome saying In Gen. Ho. 2. Heb. 1. in Iob. 27. that God from the beginning spake 〈…〉 mâ—n by him selfe S. Paule that God in olde times spake mâ—ny waies and in sundrie sortes vnto the Fathers S. Hierome that the holy Scriptures be euerlasting though the wâ—â—ld shal haue an ende and that the thing which is promised by the holy Scriptures shal last for euer though the paper parchement and leaues of bookes shal be abolished Againe you allege S. Chrysostome saying 2. Cor. hom 18. that S. Paule calleth Preaching not written the Gospel But to what purpose al this How proueth this either that you auouched in your Apologie touching the setled rest of mannes harte to be founde only in the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new testament or which now you teache hauing reuoked your former doctrine that it is founde onely in Goddes worde Verely by ought that you haue said yet either in your Apologie or in your Defence you haue neither shewed where mannes harte shal finde the reste you spake of nor where we shal finde you so like a hunted foxe you starte from one thing to an other as it were from bushe to bushe from hole to hole So must they doo who seruing the Maister that you serue take vpon them to impugne the Catholique Doctrine and to defende Vntruthe Iewel Ibidem God him selfe in his ovvne person and presently spake vnto Abel c. Harding That would I confesse But he spake not to him by paper and incke And yet we are not now in worse case then the old fathers were And the word of God in their hartes whereof they could not doubte was euer much more cleere and plaine then that which is in our bookes whereof some men doubt many times Therefore we also in Christes Church haue as wel Gods word in our hartes as in our bookes whence also to wit out of our hartes we may resolue the doubtes which arise vpoÌ„ our bookes But let vs see this matter ripte vp more deeply Iewel Pag. 194. VVe speake not so precisely and nicely of Gods vvord vvritten in paper for so it is a corruptible creature and shal perish Harding Why then bind you vs in al cases to the written word and wil haue nothing to be beleued or done that is not written Iewel Pag. 195. Chrysostom saith Preaching not writteÌ„ Paul calleth the Gospel Homil. 18. in 2. Cor. Harding But we only haue preaching not written Preaching not vvritten for you wil haue nothing preached which is not also written Therefore we only haue the whole Gospel and you haue but one peece thereof Iewel Pag. 195. S. Antonie the Eremite vvas notably learned Aug. de Doctrinae Christ li. 1. in prologo and perfite in the scriptures Harding But without knowledge of letters as with S. Augustine your selfe must confesse This proueth that by the Scriptures the sense and meaning is vnderstanded and not the bare letter Now the meaning of the Scriptures not only tolerateth but conuinceth the vnbloudy Sacrifice of Christes body Transubstantiation praiers to the Saintes and praiers for the dead as diuers learned men haue declared at large Iewel The force and substance bothe of prayer and of meditation dependeth of reading Aug. de scalis paradisi .c. 11 Harding Not only of reading For then vnlearned persons should neither praie nor meditate nor haue Gods word Marke stil we denie not the written word but we say besides it there are vnwritten Verities Basil de Spiritu Sancto cap. 27. which thing you impudently denie Iewel Pag. 195. S. Basil reckeneth Traditions to be equal vvith the vvorde of God but that he vvrote those vvordes rather of zeale then of iudgement it 〈…〉 appeare bicause the traditions he nameth are forgotten euen in the Churche of Rome as not to kneele in the Churche vpon the sonnedaie Harding If bicause some Traditions be altered TraditioÌ„s or abolished they were not Gods word then the precepte of absteining from strangled meates Actor 15. is not Gods word bicause it is now abolished
be sure to liue for ouer the whiche no euil man can eate For if it could so be that he who continueth euil stil should eate the worde made fleash whereas it is the woorde and liuing bread it should not haue ben written whosoeuer eateth this bread shal liue for euer Origen fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv These are the true wordes of Origen But M. Iewel hath so mangled them that the sense is cleane altered For in steede of verbuÌ„ caro factum the worde made flesh he hath placed the body of Christ referring it to the Sacrament And whereas in Origen it is edere verbum factum carnem to eate the word made flesh he hath made exchange thereof into edere corpus Domini to eate the body of our Lorde And so whereas Origen meant that euil men can not eate spiritually and effectually the Diuinitie of Christ so as it dwelleth corporally in his flesh M. Iewel hath taught him to say that an euil man can not in the Sacrament eate Christes bodie Iewel Pag. 210. VVe say vvith S. Augustine the Sacrament is not our Lorde In Iohan. Tract 5â— but the bread of our Lord. Harding S. Augustin denieth not the SacrameÌ„t to be our Lord he hath no such wordes Howbeit we our selues would denie it in some sense For some tyme the Sacrament is taken for the forme of bread and wine and that in deede is not our Lord. Iewel 212. M. Harding might accompt not only seuen but also seuenteen sundry Sacramentes Harding I accompt onely seuen in such sense as the Churche properly taketh a Sacrament And how that is I shewed before Iewel pag. 213. Thus vve say it can not be proued that this number is so specially appointed As for the reasons of seuen seales seuen trumpettes seuen starres seuen golden Candelstikes and seuen eyes they are childish Harding We ground not our seuen Sacramentes vppon those similitudes Seuen Sacrametes August de Ciuit. Dei li. 11. c. 30. de doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 16. Albeit if any man applie some of those matters to the seuen Sacramentes it is not childishely done seing S. Augustine confesseth that the Mysteries of numbers be great in the holy scriptures Iewel 213. Vnto euery Sacrament tvvo thinges are necessarie a sensible outvvard Element as in Baptisme VVater in our Lordes Supper Bread and VVine and the vvord of Institution Harding Thus farre we are agreed with you Iewel Matrimonie Order and penaunce haue the vvoorde of God but they haue no outvvard creature or Element Extrems Vnction and Confirmation haue neither vvoorde nor Element Harding To answere you herein M. Iewel I can not doo better Conci Florentin in vnione Armeniorum then to send you to the Councel of Florence and to the bookes wherein the order of our Sacramentes are conteined Where you shal finde that there lacketh neither the woorde of Institution nor conuenient Element It is yenough to vs that both by the woorde of God and by the perpetual doctrine of the Churche we are taught Act. 8. Iacob 5. Luc. 22. Ioan. 20. that these seuen are Sacramentes Confirmation is proued in the Actes of the Apostles Extreme Vnction in the Epistle of S. Iames Order in S. Luke and in S. Iohn Now baptisme and our Lordes supper your selfe graunt of penaunce and Matrimonie I haue said sufficiently already To be short we are in possession of seuen Sacramentes neither can you nor any man now aliue or that euer liued sith the Apostles shewe that euer the Church was without so many Sacramentes Impugne them when you list I doubt not but you shal be answered For that ye haue said hitherto is litle worthe and most thinges are lyes Iewel pag. 213. 214. De SacrameÌ„tâ— Eucharistia The auncient Fathers hauing occasion to intreate of purpose and specially hereof speake only of tvvo Sacramentes and so Bessarion namely saith Harding None of them al hath written purposely of al the Sacramentes of the Church but as occasion serued M. Ievvel belyeth the ancient Fathers touching the number of the SacrameÌ„tes Dionysius De Ecclesiast Hierarch TertulliaÌ„ lib. de resur carnis Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 1. ad StephanuÌ„ Bessarion de SacrameÌ„to Eucharistiae Bessarion belyed by M. Ievvel they now speake of two now of moe Of two they speake the more specially bicause the custome was to geue them both together to those that were of discretion Howbeit Dionysius Areopagita the most auncient of al intreateth of many moe as his booke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia doth witnesse Tertullian besides Baptisme and the body of Christ nameth together with them Anointing and Signing and Imposition of handes And the Doctours which you bring affirme two but they denie not moe Yea S. Cyprian whom you cite in the first place can not be proued there to meane by both Sacramentes Baptisme and the supper of our Lorde Bessarion saith two were deliuered plainely in the Scriptures but he confesseth moe whiche are deliuered also in the Scriptures though not so plainely as the other two And he expressely nameth Chrismatis Sacramentum the Sacrament of Confirmation or of Bishopping Of the other Sacramentes in general he speaketh twise in the beginning of that Treatie Wherefore there is an impudâ—nt he included in your wordes where you saie that I haue in expresse wordes The onely two Sacraments of the Churche So that nowe we maie couple you with Beza â—â—o teacheth the same doctrine in his Confession and iuâ—â—ly cal you bothe false teachers Iewel 214. Al these thinges not vvithstanding the Tridentine Councel concludeth seuen Sacramentes Harding So it ought and maie easily doo M. Iewel any thing that you haue yet brought notwithstanding You proue in dede that there are two Sacramentes but that there are no moe you haue not brought so much as one apparent authoritie Sauing that of Bessarion who neuerthelesse is vtterly against you For he beleued and taught that there were seuen Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae as by that Treatie it maye wel appeare But what should I do good reader should I now proue that there are seuen Sacramentes Certainely it were easy for me so to doo and to set out a booke of that Argument farre greater then M. Iewels is And that may wel appeare true by that Ruardus Tapper Cardinal Hosius and Petrus a Soto with diuers other learned menne haue done in this behalfe I am sure M. Iewel wil not denie but I were hable to english at the lest that which I should find in their Latin bookes And yet therein standeth his whole shewe For in deede he doth litle els but english that which the Germaines and Geneuians bookes haue The 7. SacrameÌ„tes proued out of S. Augustine Augustiniana CoÌ„fessio The vntruthes and scoffes that he addeth of his owne though they be many in number yet doo they not greatly increase the bulke of his volume Besides al other Catholique bookes there hath one benne set forth
happeth bicause we yeelde and consent vnto sinne and not bicause the concupiscence of it selfe is sinne before we haue consented vnto it Ievvel 217. S. Augustine saith in most plaine vvise Contra Iulianum lib. 5. c. 3. The concupiscnce of the flesh against vvhich the good spirite lusteth is both sinne and the paine of sinne and the cause of sinne Yet the late blessed Chapter of Trident in spite of S. Augustine hath published the contrarie Harding Thus ye speake in spite of the CouÌ„cel Verely the CouÌ„cel of Trent did determine that which it fouÌ„d in S. Augustin who teacheth most manifestly that the CoÌ„cupisceÌ„ce is not properly sin but is only called so And thereby you know how S. Augustine is to be vnderstaÌ„ded in the place by you alleged His most plaine words are these Augustin coÌ„t duas epist Pelagi li. 1. ca. 13. Dicimus Baptisma dare oiÌ„m indulgentiaÌ„ peccatoruÌ„ et auferre crimina noÌ„ radere Sed de ista coÌ„cupiscentia carnis falli eos credo vel fallere cuÌ„ qua necesse est vt etiaÌ„ baptizatus hoc si diligeÌ„tissimè proficit spiritu Dei agitur pia mente confligat Sed haec etiaÌ„si vocatur PeccatuÌ„ non vtique quia peccatuÌ„ est sed quia peccato facta est sic vocatur Sicut sciptura manus cuiusque dicitur quòd manus eaÌ„ fecerit We say that Baptisme geueth remissioÌ„ of al sinnes and that it taketh crimes quit away and doth not shaue them as who would saye it leaueth not the rootes behind But I suppose that as touching this ConcupisceÌ„ce of the flesh they be either deceiued them selues or that they deceiue others For of this ConcupisceÌ„ce he also who is baptized yea though he profit neuel so wel and be guided with the spirite of God must of necessitie suffer in his Godly mind some conflicte But this Concupiscence albeit it be called sinne yet verely it is not so called bicause it is sinne but bicause it is made by sinne As for example any writing is called the hand of him that wrote it bicause the hand made it If then S. Augustine say most distinctly that the Concupiscence in them that are baptized is not a sinne how spitefully yea how falsely also haue you said that the Councel of Trent defined the contrarie in spite of S. Augustine I pray you be not so angry with the Councel of Trent If your stomake wil not holde in that spiteful humour but you must nedes vtter it yet wil truth be truth Of the Real presence of Christes Bodie in the Sacrament of the Aulter The 5. Chapter The Apologie Pag. 218. VVe saie that Eucharistia that is to saie the Supper of the Lorde is a Sacrament that is an euident representation of the Bodie and Bloude of Christ vvherein is sette as it vvere before our eies the death of Christ and his Resurrâ—ction and vvhat so euer he did vvhilest he vvas in his mortal Body to the ende vve maie geue thankes for his deathe and for our deliuerance And that by the often receiuing of this Sacrament vve may daily renevve the remembrance thereof to thintent vve being fedde vvith the Bodie and bloude of Christe may be brought into the hope of the Resurrection and of euerlasting life and maie most assuredly beleeue that as our bodies be fedde vvith bread and vvine so our soules be fedde vvith the Bodie and Bloude of Christe Confutation fol. 90. b. Among al these gay wordes we heare not so much as one syllable vttered whereby we may vnderstande that yee beleeue the very Bodie of Christe to be in deede present in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter Ye confesse the Eucharistia whiche commonly ye cal the Supper of the Lorde to be a Sacrament and al that to be none other then an euident token of the Bodie and Bloude of Christe c. Iewel Defence Pag. 220. Here is no mention saith M. Harding of Real presence and thereupon he plaieth vs many a proper lesson Notvvithstanding here is as muche mention made of Real presence as either Christe or his Apostles euer made or in the Primitiue Catholique Church vvas euer beleeued Harding COnsidering how ofte this matter hath ben handled and how few men are ignorant what ech side saith I wil be the shorter in this place First I graunt the eating of Christes body by faith to be necessarie Againe I graunt the Sacrament to be a mystical figure of Christes death and of his visible body But I say farther that besides eating by Faith our flesh and body receiueth Christes body and that really Matt. 26. That these vvordes this is my body this is my Bloude are meant properly TertulliaÌ„ de resurr Carnis Which conclusion is proued bicause the wordes of Christ this is my body are meant properly and without any figure of speach albeit the manner of the presence be figuratiue My reason to proue that Christes wordes are meant properly is the perpetual interpretation of the auncient Fathers the sense and custome of the Churche To beginne with Tertullian he saith in this wise Caro abluitur vt anima emaculetur Caro vngitur vt anima consecretur Caro signatur vt anima muniatur Caro manus impositione adumbratur vt anima spiritu illuminetur Caro corpore sanguine Christi vescitur vt anima de Deo saginetur The flesh is washed that the soule may be made without spot The flesh is annointed that the soule may be consecrated The flesh is signified that the soule may be fenced The flesh is shadowed with the laying on of handes The flesh is the meane vvhereby the grace of God passeth vnto the soule that the soule also may be lightened with the holy Ghost The flesh is fed with the body and bloude of Christe that the soule also may be made fat of God In these wordes as diuers Sacramentes are ioyned together so herein they agree al that the flesh is the meane by which the grace of God passeth to the soule As therfore in Baptisme the flesh is washed that the soule may be cleansed so in the Sacrament of the Aulter the flesh is fed with the body and bloude of Christ that the soule may be nourished with the godhead which dwelleth in that fleshe It is then to be noted that the fleshe eateth not material bread and wine but the body and bloud of Christ For as the thing wherewith we are washed is water and that wherewith we are anointed is oile euen so that wherewith the flesh is fed is the body and bloud of Christ The instrument therefore of Gods grace is none other in the Supper beside that flesh wherein the fulnesse of the Godhed dwelleth It is wel knowen that our flesh hath no faith to eate Christes body withal Therefore when our flesh is said to be fed with Christes body it is clearly meant that our flesh is also really fed with Christes owne substance as it is washed with
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore 〈…〉 But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and cōfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incōstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the Sacramēt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after cōsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With
him them selues The fleshe is feeble the minde is sicke and so entangled in the bandes of sinne that it can not set forth her faint and feble foote towardes the seate of that Physician The Angels are to be called vpon for vs who are geuen vnto vs to be our Garde The Martyrs are to be praied vnto of whom it seemeth we maie as it were chalenge a certaine assistance for that we haue their bodies in pledge They may wel pray for our sinnes who with their owne bloud haue washed away their owne sinnes if they had any For these are the Martyrs of God our chiefe Prelates and the ouerlookers of our life and doinges Let vs not be ashamed to vse them as intercessours for our infirmitie whereas they them selues euen then when they wanne the victorie knew wel the infirmitie and weakenesse of the bodie This place M. Iewel sheweth that S. Ambrose who wil not haue any man to flee to Idolles woulde haue al faithful menne to praie to the Saintes for them And yet you for lacke of better stuffe were faine to make your Reader beleeue that the wordes written against the accursed Idolles might be applied by you against the blessed Apostles and Martyrs Whereby you shewe what good opinion you haue of that blessed companie of the house of God who reigning with him in heauen see in the face of the Lambe our hartes so farre as belongeth to their ioye and our comfort This one place of S. Ambrose might haue suffised The practise of the Churche touching the prayer to Saints aÌ„d honour to them exhibited but it shal be good that we ioyne therewith the practise both of the Church in those daies and also of the Heretikes that as wel the Catholikes may see how the Saintes were esteemed in olde time as M. Iewel may perceiue that he is not the first heretike whom it grieued to see Gods Martyrs so to be honoured as they are among the Catholikes Let vs then heare what S. Paulinus writeth in the life of S. Ambrose who liued in his time Paulinus in vita Ambrosâ— Per ideÌ„ teÌ„pus sancti Martyres Protasius Geruasius se sacerdoti reuelaueruÌ„t EraÌ„t enim in Basilica positi in qua sunt hodie corpora Naboris et Felicis Martyrum Sed sancti Martyres Nabor Felix celeberrimè frequentabantur Protasij verò Geruasij Martyrum vt nomina ita etiam sepulchra incognita erant in tantum vt suprà ipsorum sepulchra ambularent omnes qui vellent ad cancellos peruenire quibus sanctorum Naboris Felicis Martyrum ab iniuria sepulchra defendebantur Sed vbi sanctorum Martyrum sunt corpora leuata in lecticis posita multorum ibi Satanae aegritudines perdocentur Coecus etiam Seuerus nomine qui nunc vsque in eadem basilica quae dicitur Ambrosiana in quam Martyrum corpora sunt translata religiosè seruit vbi vestem Martyrum attigit statim lumen recepit Obsessa etiam corpora à spiritibus immundis curata summa cum gratia domum repetebant Sed his beneficiis Martyrum in quantum crescebat fides Ecclesiae Catholica intantum Arianorum perfidia minuebatur Denique ex hoc tempore sedâ—ri coepit persecutio quae Iustinae furori accendebatur vt Sacerdos de Ecclesia pelleretur Tamen intra palatium multitudo Arianorum cum Iustina constitutâ— deridebat tantam Dei gratiam quam Ecclesiae suae Catholica Dominus Iesus meritis Nartyrum suorum conferre dignatus est venerabilémque virum Ambrosium narrabat pecunia comparasse homines qui se vexari ab immundis spiritibus mentirentur atque ita ab illo sicut à martyribus se torqueri dicerent Sed hoc Iudaico ore loquebantur Ariani suppares scilicet eorum Illi enim de Domino dicebant Quoniam in Beelzebub principe Daemoniorum eijcit Daemonia Isti de Martyribus vel de Domini Sacerdote loquebantur quòd non Dei gratia quae per ipsos operabatur immundi spiritus pellerentur sed accepta pecunia se torqueri mentirentur Clamabant enim daemones Scimus vos Martyres Et Ariani dicebant Nescimus esse Martyres About this time the holy Martyrs Protasius and Gernasius reueled them selues to S. Ambrose For they were buried in the Church where at this daie are the bodies of the Martyrs Nabor and Felix But menne haunted very muche vnto the holy Martyrs Nabor and Felix and as for the Martyrs Protasius and Gernasius as theire names were vnknowen so were also their Graues where they laie in so muche that men that were desirous to come to the Grates wherewith the toumbes of the blessed Martyrs Nabor and Felix were fenced from iniurie walked vppon their graues But after that the bodies of the blessed Martyrs were taken vppe and laid in their cofines that many were there cured of their Diseases it is wel knowen Seuerus a blinde man by touche of martyrs garment receiued fighte A blinde man named Seuerus who at this daie ful deuoutely serueth in the same Churche nowe called S. Ambroses Churche whither the bodies of the Martyrs were translated after that he had once touched the garmente of the Martyrs foorthwith receiued his fight Many bodies also possessed of wicked Spirites were cured and returned home with great grace But howe muche the faith of the Catholique Churche by these benefites of the Martyrs grewe more and more so muche did the perfidious falshood of the Arians wexe lesse and lesse Finally after this the persecution which was enkendled by the rage of Iustina the Emperesse which sought to driue Saint Ambrose out of his Churche beganne to slake Neuerthelesse the rable of the Arians who were in the Courte with Iustina scoffed at this great grace of God whiche it pleased our Lord Iesus to bestow vpoÌ„ his Catholike Church through the merites of his Martyrs And they bruted abroad that the reuereÌ„d Bishop Ambrose had hiered meÌ„ with money that should feine them selues to be vexed with vncleane Sprites and saie that they were as wel tormented by S. Ambrose as by the Martyrs But this the Arians like verie Iewes vttered as being in malice their owne companions For the Iewes said of our Lorde He casteth out Deuilles in Beelzebub the Prince of Deuilles But the Arians said of the Martyrs and of S. Ambrose the Priest of our Lord that the vncleane Sprites were not cast out by the grace of God which wrought by them but that menne hiered with money feined them selues to be tormented For the Deuilles cried out We know you to be Martyrs But the Arians said we know not them to be Martyrs Thus farre S. Paulinus Doo you know your Father M. Iewel if ye saw him I meane not your natural Father would God you were so good a man and of so good a faith as he was But I meane your other father that begote Arius whose yonger brother you are At that time the Arians mockte at the miracles wroughte by the Saintes
errour whiche he helde as his priuate opinion was condemned at the sounde of trompettes in presence of that king as Gerson writeth but that was done before he was Pope Iewel 639. Your ovvne Glose saith Dist 63. In Synod in Glos Papa potest dare potestatem Imperatori vt deponat ipsum sese illi in omnibus subijcere The Pope maie geue the Emperour povver to depose him selfe and maie in al thinges submitte him selfe vnto him Harding Be it that our Glose saith so M. Iewel your Glose I might rather saie For the Gloser seemeth to be your chiefe Doctour There was neuer Diuine that serued him selfe with the stuffe of the Glose so muche as you doo What inferre you vpon it If you can like a good Logician frame this argument vppon that Glose The Pope maie geue the Emperour authoritie to depose him selfe Ergo the Pope maie be conuented before the Magistrate as one that through vertue of his temporal office is his superiour in Ecclesiastical causes let vs haue it in writing and we wil returne you the like with as good consequence and saie The Queene may geue anie of her Lordes and subiectes power to depose her from her roial estat and to transferre it to an other Ergo shee maie be conuented before that Lord and subiect of hers as one that hath authoritie to depose her of him selfe without commission and authoritie from her grace And if you finde fault with the sequele of this find fault with the sequele of you own For they are both like Dist 93. cap. vltim in Glossa The Law saith Ex alterius persona quis consequitur quod non habet ex sua A man getteth of an other-mannes person that which he hath not of his owne Wherefore the Emperour hauing authoritie of the Pope to depose him Extr. de off iudicis Deleg c. Sanè hath not that authoritie of him selfe or any his Imperial power but of the Pope And seing Iudex delegatus à Papa gerit vices Papae a Iudge delegated of the Pope occupieth the roome of the Pope the Emperour in this case shal not depose him as Emperour but as the Popes Vicegerent and Delegate Iewel Pag. 639. Franciscus Zarabella saith De schemate Concilio It is de Schismate pontificuÌ„ Papa accusari potest coram Imperatore de quolibâ—t crimine notorio Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime and the Emperour maie require the Pope to yelde an accompte of his faith Harding Neither Franciscus Zarabella nor Franciscus Zabarella for so is his true name saith as you reporte that Papa potest accusari coram Imperatore de quolibet crimine notorio M. Ievvel falsifieth his Doctor by addition of his ovvne to helpe his mater The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime Those wordes coram Imperatore before the Emperour are of your owne interlacing and be not in the Authour You ought to be ashamed so fouly to corrupte your authours and deceiue the people Againe Zabarella sayth not Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei the Emperour may require the Pope to yeelde an accompte of his faieth They are your woordes Maister Iewel That whiche Zabarella saith is thus Zabarella made to saie What pleaseth M. Ievvel Si Papa est de haeresi suspectus potest Imperator ab eo exigere vt indiret quid sentiat de fide that is if the Pope be suspected of heresie the Emperour may require of him that he declare what he thinketh of the Faith Nowe sir to require a man to yeelde an accompte of his Faith and to require him to declare what he thinketh are twoo diuerse thinges For the one can not be donne but by Superiour authoritie the other by waie of friendship and common charitie But as for Superiour authoritie In vvhat case of necessitie the Emperour may entermedle vvith matters of Faith and religion after the minde of Zabarella Zabarella alloweth the Emperour none ouer the Pope nor graunteth that he maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes but in an extreme necessitie to witte if there were two Popes at one time as there were when he wrote this Treatie whence you fetche your falsified sentences and neither would yeelde vnto the other nor the Cardinalles take order for the quiet gouernemente of the Churche in procuring a General Councel and if he saw the Antipape to geue ouer his vsurped Authoritie then the Emperour whose duetie is to defende the Catholique Faithe maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes saith Zabarella His wordes are these Cùmergo deficit Papa vel Cardinales Francis Zabarella de Schismate pontificuÌ„ qui subrogantur Papae in Congregatione Concilij vt dictum est in praecedenti quaestione ad ipsum Imperatorem qui pars post praedictos est praecipua Concilij spectat Congregatio Nec quenquam moueat quòd Imperator est Laicus vt ex hoc putet esse inconueniens quòd se intromittat de clericis Non enim semper prohibetur iudicare de clericis sed tunc prohibetur quando non subest ratio specialis Nam propter specialem rationem permittitur vt ratione feudi Hoc autem casu subest ratio specialis imo specialissima ne fides Catholica ruat quod nimium periclitatur diu permittendo pluralitatem in summo Pontificatu In quo maximè est Imperatoris praecipuam habet potestatem Nam permittere plures in Papatu est offendere illum fidei articulum vnam sanctam Catholicam c. Therefore when the Pope faileth or the Cardinalles who are nexte in roome vnto the Pope substituted to the Pope in assembling of a CouÌ„cel as it was said in the nexte question before the assembling of a Councel apperteineth vnto the Emperour who after the Pope and the Cardinalles is the chiefe parte Neither it ought to moue any man to thinke it inconuenient that the Emperour in that he is a laie man should intermedle with maters belonging to clerkes For he is not alwaies inhibited to iudge of Clerkes But then he is forbidden when there is no special cause For it is permitted for some special reason as in consideration of fealtie And in this cause there is a special yea a most special reason that the Catholique Faith come not to ruine bicause it is in great danger by long suffering of pluralitie in the Popedome that is to say of moe Popes then one In which the Emperour is the chiefe doer and he hath the chief power For to permitte many Popes in the Popedome is to offende that article of the Faith I beleeue one holy Catholique and Apostolike Churche By this and the whole discourse that Zabarella your authour maketh there it appeareth M. Iewel that the Emperour hath not the authoritie you pretende but in that case of extreme necessitie And by your aduocate in the Lawe if he had not
he proueth very sufficiently and copiously that simple Fornication is mortal sinne Alphonsus contra haeres li. 5. Coitus Defence pag. 362. But Alphonsus chargeth him with saying that to beleeue the Contrarie is not a point of Heresie And thereof M. Iewel in the Defence taketh holde geuing ouer al his other false holdes Let it be as Alphonsus saith Yet wil it not thereof follow that the Popes Canonistes or Diuines taught the people it is no sinne By Alphonsus whom M. Iewel allegeth this Doctor Martinus de Magistris saith two thinges That Fornication is deadly sinne and yet that to beleeue the contrarie Non sit haereticum is not heretical or a case of heresie The first he proueth substantially The second he proueth not sufficiently as it appeareth to Alphonsus The reason whereby he would proue it is this Quia testimonia scripturae sacrae non sunt expressa The varietie of meaning betuixt Martinus de magistris aÌ„d AlphoÌ„sus de Castro touching simple Fornication bicause the testimonies of the holy Scriptures are not expresse that is to saie bicause simple Fornication is not expressely so called And though it were so yet maie it otherwise be plainely as it is most plainely signified Now this question riseth betwen Martinus and Alphonsus whether to beleeue that Fornication is not mortal sinne be a case of Heresie or no. Alphonsus saith it is Martinus saith it is not And what if he say it be not a case of heresie so to beleeue yet it maâ— be a wicked opinion so to beleue and a more wicked thing to committe the crime which Martinus doth not only not denie but affirmeth and proueth very earnestly and that perteineth to the present purpose Euery false beleefe maketh not a case of heresie but whosoeuer stubbornely holdeth and mainteineth a false beleefe contrarie not onely to the bare letter but also to the sense of the Scripture specially if it be determined and published by the Churche is to be accompted an heretique How soeuer it be and whether Alphonsus impute that saying to Martinus de Magistris as erroneous or no Hitherto M. Iewel proueth not that the Popes Canonistes haue taught the people that Simple Fornication is no sinne Let vs see with what other testimonies he can proue it Iewel Pag. 360. Dist 34. Is qui. Thus it is noted in the Decrees Qui non habet vxorem loco illius Concubinam debet habere He that hath not a vvife in steede of her must haue a Concubine Harding Is it likely that any Christian euer wrote so It was neuer so written and that M. Iewel him selfe knew wel ynough Concil Tolet an 1. cap. 17. For he confesseth the printed booke that so reporteth to be a false copie Wherefore then would he allege it Like wil to like False manners seeke to be defended by false hed For of true dealing they can procure them selfe no reliefe But seâ— Reader what pleasure he hath in Vntruthe Iewel Pag. 360. Ye vvil saie there is errour in the prints Be it so yet tâ—â—◠〈…〉 extant iâ— many Copies And it is vvel agreable to your common prâ—â—tise For the best that you can make of the same place is this Is qui non habet Vxorem et pro Vxore Concubinam habet à Communione non repellatur He that hath no vvife and in steede of a vvise hath a Concubine let him not be remoued from the Communion Harding What shame is it to allege the errour of a false booke that hath either crepte in by the negligence or put in by the malice of the printers Compositour The most and truest Copies haue otherwise and that could you not be ignorant of directing the Reader by your cotations vnto Gratian and vnto the first Toletan Councel from whence the testimonie is taken out And what saie you sir doth not this place proue that the popes Canonistes teache Simple Fornication to be no sinne For this is the thing whiche you haue taken vpon you to proue If you faile in proufe thereof you maie not blame vs if we accompte you for a Lyer and a sclaunderer O saie you lo here a man is allowed to haue a Concubine For in as much as he is not to be repelled from the Communion that hath a concubine The keper of a coÌ„cubine not repelled from the coÌ„munion and yet simple fornication not allovved by the CouÌ„cel of Toledo how is not a man allowed to keepe a Concubine And shal we not saie that they which teache this doctrine teache Simple Fornication to be no sinne If al this were graunted you yet how truly haue you burdened the Canonistes with this Doctrine For these wordes you know be not the wordes of the Canonistes but the wordes of the first CouÌ„cel of Toledo that was aboue a thousand yeres ago Here is good geare M. Iewel for you to iuggle withal And how can it be but that your selfe doo knowe that you doo impudently You peruerte the texte you misconster it you leaue out that goeth before and 〈…〉 followeth immediatly after Bicause you know this place might serue your purpose to deceiue the vnlearned who can not espie your falsehed you thought ye might be bolde as you are in many other places And so without blusshing you sclaunder Christes Churche burdening it with the allowance and maintenance of Concubines You plaie like a shrewde boye of the Grammar schoole who hauing a Theme appointed him by his Maister to dilate and write vpon purleth and gathereth out of euery booke as manie sentences as he findeth to haue one worde of his Theme or sounding towarde his Theme So haue you here or your Coadiutor done to finde somewhat in the writinges of the Catholikes that might seme to allowe simple Fornication and the keping of Concubines And here ye bring vs forth a peece of a Canon concluded in the first Councel of Toledo But in good sooth it maketh asmuche for your purpose as that sentence Diuinum auxilium maneat semper nobiscum made for his purpose that being among others demaunded a prety sentence concerning Wine after al had said their sentences alleged this for his parte bicause in the worde Diuinum the first syllable taken awaye vvhat is meant by a coÌ„cubin in the couÌ„cel of Toledo in the Ciuile and CanoÌ„ lavv and other vvhere there is Vinum which signifieth Wine In much like sorte you haue done here dissembling the Circumstance of the place and omitting the Chapter that in Gratian goeth immediatly before In which Chapter he declareth what in that place and certaine other there by him alleged is meant by a Concubine saying Concubina autem hîc intelligitur quae cessantibus legalibus instrumentis vnita est coniugali affectu ascistitur Hanc coniugem facit affectus Dist 34. Omnibus CoÌ„cubin Concubinam verò lex nominat By a Concubine here to witte in certaine Canons alleged in the former Distinction 33. is vnderstanded such a woman as is coupled
vnto a man without any formal writinges according to the Ciuil Lawes and is taken with intent and affection of marriage This woman the intent and affection maketh a wife but the lawe that is to saie the Ciuil lawe nameth her a Concubine Yea the Canons also doo name such a Woman a Concubine sometimes and not a wife vntil the Marriage be solemnized not that shee is a whoore but that with the reprocheful name of a Concubine as it were with a secrete rebuke suche personnes be driuen to solemnize and publish their marriage in the face of the Church Nowe let it be iudged by the Learned what you are worthy to haue for dissembling this much Gratian had alleged certaine Canons Dist 33. c. Laici c. Fin. wherein mention was made that they might continue in holy Orders and minister who before they were made Priestes had had Concubines In this sentence therefore that now I translated he expoundeth how the worde Concubine is to be taken in those Canons asmuche to faie for a wife taken priuately without publique Solemnization For saith he the Ciuil law taketh not for a wife but nameth a Concubine whiche is a baser and a more reprocheful name her which a man taketh and vseth for his wife without any solemne and publike instrument made concerning the dowrie and other matters accustomed to be agreed vpon betwen the man and wife And this with diuers other solemnities to take away occasion of strife 30. q. 5. c. ◠3. 4. and sinne was politikely ordeined by the Ciuil Lawe and Canon also But assoone as that writing was made and publique Solemnite perfourmed the children borne before were accompted lawfully borne and the Concubine to haue ben a wife from the beginning And this woman the lawe nameth in the meane time a Concubine § Nec non Iustin de nuptijs Concil Toletan 1. cap. 17. and not a whoore And Gratian to proue this exposition to be true and good alleged the Councel of Toledo saying De hac dicitur in Concilio Toletano Is qui non habet c. Of this Woman it is said in the Councel of Toledo he that hath not a wife but hath a Concubine for a wife let him not be put backe from the Communion Whiche wordes you bring to proue that the Churche doth allowe Concubines Wherein it is plaine that the worde Concubine is taken for a wife taken priuately and not openly married with due solemnitie in the face of the Churche yet kepte in bed and at burde as a wife with intent of wedlocke which was in olde time very common in Spaine and yet is in some places And the Councel there holden doth not repelle from the Communion those that haue suche wemen in that sorte Whereas if the worde Concubine signified a whoore in that Canon of the Councel of Toledo as it doth most commonly in other places the Councel would not haue wincked at that sinne nor suffered suche personnes to comme vnto the Communion but would haue repelled them Dist 56. Toto titulo ext le filijs presbyt 3. Reg. 12 as by many other Decrees the Church doth and also repelleth their children and bastard broode from the holy order of Priesthoode whereunto ye admitt◠the rascalles and the outcastes of al the people to further your carnal Doctrine as Ieroboam admitted the like to bring the people of Israel to Apostasie and Idolatrie Dist 34. Audite Aug. li. 50 homiliarū homi 49. That the Church alloweth not Concubines taken in the worse sense euen in the same place it is witnessed by S. Augustine alleged in the Decrees in whom thus we finde Concubinas habere non licet vobis si non habetis vxores tamen non licet vobis habere Concubinas quas postea dimittatis vt ducatis vxores tantò magis damnatio erit vobis si volueritis habere vxores Concubinas It is not lawful for you to haue Concubines Albeit ye haue no wiues yet it is not lawful for you to haue such Concucubines as which afterward ye maie put away to the ende to take wiues so muche the greater shal be your dānation if ye wil haue both wiues and Concubines And this signification of Concubina is not strange that when a man mindeth to marrie a woman she be called a Concubine whiche in deede is a true wife before God though she be not knowen so to be in the publique fame of the people til the marriage be solemnized A concūbine is a vvife secretly takē vvith out solēnitie of marriage It maie please you to looke on your brother Matthias Flacius Illyricus in his booke entitled Clauis Scripturae in the word Concubina And you shal find the word takē in this sense and the same proued by diuers authorities Ioannes de Turre Cremata a man right wel learned vpon the Chapter Omnibus before alleged saith thus Abraham praeter Saram habuit Agar ancillam vxorem sic enim dicitur Genes 16. Dedit Sara ancillam viro in vxorem Suam post mortem verò Sarae accepit Abraham Ceturam vxorem vt legitur Gen. 25. Et quia istae non fuerunt acceptae cum illa solennitate quamuis essent vxores affectu in veritate dictae tamen sunt Concubinae vt Genesis 25. vbi dicitur dedit Abraham cuncta quae possidebat Isaac filijs verò Concubinarum munera In libro etiam Iudicum idem habetur videlicet quòd vxor vocetur Concubina vt patet Iudic. 19. c. Abraham beside Sara had Agar to wife that was his wiues maide seruaunt for so it is said in the 16. Chapter of Genesis Sara gaue her maide vnto her husband to be his wife And after the death of Sara Abraham tooke Cetura to be his wife as we reade in Genesis the 25. chapter And bicause these wemen were not taken with that solemnitie as the wiues were although they were wiues in affection and in truth yet were they called Concubines as in Genesis 25. Chapter where it is said Abraham gaue al the thinges which he possessed to Isaac but to the sonnes of his Concubines he gaue giftes The same is also to be founde in the booke of the Iudges that a wife is called a Concubine as it appeareth Iudges 19. chapter c. This therefore proueth not your sclaunder M. Iewel wherewith you burthen the Canonistes as defending Simple Fornication to be no sinne Let vs see whether your other stuffe be any better to that purpose Constit Othonis Boni decō cubinis clerico remonendis licet ad pro sugandū in glossa In eadem glossa Iewel Pag. 360. Likevvise it is noted in the Glose vpon the constitutions of Otho Bonus Videtur quòd crimē meretricij Ecclesia sub dissimulatione trasire debeat It semeth that the Church ought to passe ouer the crime of vvhooredom vnder dissimulatiō and not to see it In vvhich Glose ye shal finde these vvordes Si
Episcopus But whether he beareth that name of the one or of the other it maketh no great matter If it be so it remaineth that you can tel vs in what parte of the worlde whether in Asia in Aphrica or in Europa or in the new founde landes there be any place of that name I thinke you must be faine to looke ouer al the Geographical tables and bookes you haue and borrowe some of your felowes too and put on your spectales of the best sight and yet for al that I warrant you not finde it except it be in Vtopia Wel M. Iewel that you maie vnderstande that the more occasion you geue me to seeke the more I finde matter of Vntruthe and ignorance to charge you withal I tel you in deede that you haue named Ioannes Camotensis in steede of Ioannes Carnotensis if you haue respecte to his Bishoprike Ioannes Camotensis must be Ioānes Sarisburiensis vvho vvas Bishop of Chartres in France and thereof in Latine called Carnotensis Defence pag. 613. But if you wil haue his Countrie signified then must you cal him Ioannes Salesberiensis or Sarisburiensis choose whether as you haue done Pag. 132. I might saie that this Ioannes Sarisburiensis was a Bishop in al respectes farre better to vse your owne wordes not then Leontius Hippolytus or Clemens as it liketh you to skoffe at those learned and blessed Bishoppes but then Iohn Iewel of Sarisburie if you naming your selfe Iohn of Sarisburie could iustly be accompted any Bishop at al. But betwen a Bishop and no Bishop in this behalfe there can be no comparison This is not the first time that you haue alleged your witnesses by a blinde gheasse hearesaie or reporte not hauing seene their bookes nor knowing what the Authours were You can saie much by rote and prou◠litle by skil as in many other places but here moste euidently it appeareth For if you had knowen that your Ioannes Camotensis is the selfe same Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise named Carnotensis for that he was in his time Bishop of Chartres in Fraunce Pag. 132. named Carnotum in Latine whiche you haue alleged before out of his woorke entitled Polycraticon but neuer declaring out of what booke thereof being eight bookes in the whole or what Chapter bicause yee neuer readde the place in the Authour him selfe but receiued it by the waie of almes of frier Bale Flacius Illyricus or some suche other if I saie you had knowen so muche as you might if you had taken the paine to peruse the Polycration your selfe you would neuer haue made so muche a doo about so smal a matter Now for your better instruction and fuller satisfaction maie it please you to vnderstand that he whiche is misnamed in Epitome Bibliothecae Gesneri Ioannes Camotensis is in Partitionibus eiusdem Gesneri tituli 5. fol. 95. rightly called Ioannes Carnotensis And that your Ioannes Camotensis is by you blindly mistaken for Ioannes Carnotensis it euidently appeareth by the sentences alleged by your owne Necromantical Doctor Cornelius Agrippa and by an other of the Spritish sort of your gospel Paulus Scalichius in his railing Libel De Choraea Monachorum Paul Scalichius and by lying Illyricus in Catalogo testium veritatis which are adscribed by Baudy Bale 2. Centur. Scriptorum Britanniae pag. 212. too Ioannes Carnotensis out of his Polycraticon And in deed they are there to be founde albeit not to that purpose that al the packe of your holy brethren haue vntruely alleged them for And therefore neuer a one of you al hath quoted either number of the booke or Chapter where any of those sentences are to be founde lest your falsehed might haue benne espied and that by reading the whole discourse of the places your euil purpose should haue benne nothing furthered but much hindred But if it wil please either you or the Reader to peruse the 16. chapter of the 5. booke and the 24. of the 6. booke of the sayd Polycraticon you for your parte shal haue occasion to vnderstand your errour and folie and the Reader for his parte not to be deceiued with your blinde reporte Pag. 51. Cusanus sovvly and ignorantly belied of M. Iew. You beare your Reader in hand pag. 51. that Nicolaus Cusanus wrote a booke entituled de Auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture And as though you had seene the booke and wel perused it you referre your Reader thereunto in 14. mo places of this your pretensed Defence as it shal appeare to him A false forged booke odiously attributed by M. Ievv to Cardinal Cusanus in xv Sundri◠places that wil take the paines to turne to these pages here truely quoted 53. 55. 78. 157. 331. 438. 439. 474. 558. 593. 665. 674. 704. 724. Now M. Iewel notwithstanding al these quotations of yours if you be hable to shewe vs any booke of Cusanus so entituled either in print or in autenticke written hande I wil saie that you wil proue your selfe a truer man then euer I tooke you to be But bicause this maie litle moue you I wil more adde on the contrary side if you be not hable to shewe the same after so many allegations out thereof it wil consequently folowe that you are a shamelesse man I might saie a false harlot If a man were disposed to dally with you in a matter most certaine as you vse to doo with others when you thinke you haue gotten any smal shadowe of some counterfeit aduantage for an vndoubted example whereof I referre the readers to the page 414. he might perchaunce dash you quite out of countenance and deface you for euer yea euen before your frendes and the flattering vpholders of your dooinges which would greeue you at the harte Now might one chalenge you and saie M. Iewel if you be hable to shew any booke or halfe booke oration or epistle or any litle pamphlet whereunto Cusanus hath geuen this title then wil the Catholiques graunt you more then euer you were hable to gete yet at their handes If you haue al the bookes in your studie either of your owne or of other menne that you allege then bring the booke with this title forth and you shal discharge your selfe of a most impudent lie and sclaunder And if you be hable so to doo then I praie you let it be proclaimed by you with your booke in your hand at Powles crosse as you haue done at other times to your worship forsooth that al the worlde maie beare witnesse thereof Verely M. Iewel it appeareth that you haue readde more then you vnderstand or at least then you haue liste to vnderstand and yet you allege more then euer you readde in the bookes whereunto you referre vs as it maie wel be proued by this present example and many other the like You maie beshrewe him to whom you gaue so light credite herein Couet not praise by
to ioyne with your aduersarie in the very pointe that lieth in controuersie then are you possessed with a dumme spirite and for ought that is to the purpose you can saie nothing The argument whiche you allege out of Opus Tripartitum annexed to the Councel of Constance I marueile that you had the face to bring it forth M. Ievv allegeth obiectioÌ„s made by Doctours against the truth as if they vvere the Doctours ovvne meaning What meane you M. Iewel Is it not there set for an obiection against the truthe And euen there in the nexte Chapter answered and soiled What learned man euer brought in his Defence the Obiections set forth by a Doctour to thintent by the solution of them the truthe maie more clearely appeare By this you shewe your selfe to be very shamelesse and that you care not in what trippes learned menne take you so that for the time it be not espied and you to the vnlearned people seeme a ioily felowe I referre you for the Answere to that Obiection to the chapter there following where you shal finde it fully answered Iewel Pag. 102. Operis Tri part li. 2. cap. 6. CoÌ„cil Tom 2 Like as the Emperour Caligula somitemes tooke of the heaâ— of 〈◊〉 great God Iuppitâ—r and set on an other head of his ovvne euen so by these interpretations and Gloses M. Harding smiteth of Christe his great God M. Iewel should haue said to make it answer to Iuppiter Caligulas great God the only Head of the Church Suetonius Tranquil in Caligula and setteth on the Pope Harding Answer to the former Comparison The 15. Chapt. What Sir doo you compare me with Caligula the Emperour and Christe our Sauiour God and Man with Iuppiter the Idol This comparison is not very handsome But marke gentle Reader how M. Iewel speaketh more honestly of me Christ by M. Iew coÌ„pared to Iuppiter then he was aware Here are Caligula the Emperour and I compared together Iuppiter the Emperour Caligulaes great God and Christe my great God In which comparison as M. Iewel hath ouershot him selfe too foule in comparing Christe with Iuppiter euen so haue I some cause to yelde him a fewe thinne and sclender thankes for that he acknowlegeth Christe to be my great God as he is in deede though this confession seemeth to haue leapt out of his penne vnaduisedly The difference that he would not see standeth in this point that Iuppiters owne head and the head that Caligula tooke to set in place of it could not agree together without monstrous deformitie and inequalitie to Iuppiters bodie Christe the supreme Head of the whole Churche Christ the head inuisible by iÌ„fluence of and the Pope who is but Christes Vicare his ministerial head or vnderhead doo maruelously agree together So that the one is the Inuisible Head continually by influence of grace the Pope the Visible Head eche Pope for his time to keepe Visible rule and Order emong the people by visible meane whereof as being menne they haue neede An other difference he might haue seene also if it had pleased him that Iupiter the Idol had no people vnder him to be exercised in the absence of his owne head in the vse and right faith of the holy Sacramentes Christe our Sauiour is visibly absent for the exercise of Christian peoples faith in him and in the holy Sacramentes Whose visible absence if it were not supplied by a visible general Head vnder whom the people might be ruled there would folowe infinite disorder and Babylonical Confusion Iewel Pag. 102. Thus vve are taught that Christe is neither the head of his ovvne body the Churche nor the shepeherd of his ovvne flocke but only the Pope Harding Emong many other lies whiche you haue deuised against vs to sporte your selfe withal this is not onely a flat lie but also a skoffing and a sclaunderous lie We neuer taught so we neuer wrote so If ye proue it not let the shame be yours Iewel And yet Chrysostome saith Qui non vtitur Sacra Scriptura sed ascendit aliunde id est non concessa via hic non Pastor est Chrysost in Iohan. Homil. 58 sed fur VVhosoeuer vseth not the holy Scripture but coÌ„meth in an other vvaie that is not lavvful vvhiche is by false Gloses and corruptions he is not the Shephearde of the flocke he is the theefe Harding M. Iewel in reasoning suppresseth that wherein the proufe resteth so his argumentes must be weake and vaine The .16 Chapt. You laie forth many solemne Maiors diuers times as this out of S. Chrysostome and thereupon without either laying forth of the Minor or proufe thereof notwithstanding the whole matter on your behalfe to be proued standeth in the Minor you vse to inferre your seely Conclusions As here you reason after this wise Who so euer vseth not the holy Scripture but commeth in from an other where that is to saie by a waie not lawful for so S. Chrysostome speaketh and not as you haue falsified him he is not the shephearde of the flocke Ergo the Pope is not the shephearde of the flocke How proueth M. Iewel this argument with al the Logique he hath Had it not ben reason Chrysost in Math hom 55. in illa verba Iohan. 21. sequere me Hom. 87. August Contra Donatist Lib. 6.1 Q. 3. vocantur Canes he had first proued that the Pope vseth not the holy Scripture neither commeth in according to the Scripture but that he commeth in by some other vnlawful waie whiche ought to haue ben his Minor This bicause he sawe he was not hable to proue he thought it good policie to suppresse it with silence But let the question be asked of S. Chrysostome who vseth holy Scripture better he that saith that the charge of the whole worlde was committed to Peter and consequently to his successours as the same Chrysostom saith or he that denieth flatly that any suche thing maie be concluded out of the Scripture It is to true that you bring in of S. Augustine that the note or marke of a Bisshop many geue vnto Wolues and be Wolues them selues You had neuer the true Character of a Bishop being neuer lawfully consecrated by three lawful Bishoppes as the holy Canons require and yet you beare your selfe for a Bishop and vsurpe Bishoply office therefore you are one of the Wolues that S. Augustine spake of Leaue rauening and deceiuing of Goddes people and become penitent that you maie be saued with the meeke shepe of Christes flocke and not be damned euerlastingly with the rauening Wolues Iewel Pag. 102. 103. M. Harding saithe farther For asmuche as Christe is ascended into Heauen and is novv no more conuersant emongest vs in visible Fourme as he vvas before it behoued some one man to be put in commission for bearing the charge and taking care for the vvhole Churche Therefore he said vnto Peter Feede my flocke Confirme thy Brethren First vvhat auncient learned
Father euer thus scanned the vvordes of the popes commission Or vvhy doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely vvithout farther Authoritite c. Harding Feede my Sheepe are wordes of Peters commission to gouerne the Churche and the same is proued by the Fathers You tel my tale in suche wise The .17 Chapt. as you maie best make the matter seeme weake and sclender First I thinke good here to set before the reader who is now made iudge of this controuersie myne owne wordes as I vttered them my selfe Then I shal the better frame my Answer to that you obiecte Thus I saie Where these Defenders â—onfâ—t fol. 46. a. as others the Aduersaries of this vnitie saie that Christe is this one shepheard this one Head who is so Christe is the principal Head and of him selfe the Pope is the Ministerial Head and vnder Christ aÌ„d for Christ Math. 28. 1. Pet. 2. A man is necessarie to doo Christes steede of outward gouernment in in the Churche The necessitie and institution of the Head of the Churche Genes 32. Num. 12. we denie not Shepeheard of his flockâ— Head of his body Bridegrome of his spouse Prince of hiâ— kingdome as it is before declared yet saie they therein nothing to the disproufe of the catholique doctrine touching vnitie of the Head which is in steed and ministerie of Christ For whereas the Father hath geuen to Christ al power in heaueÌ„ and earth so as he only is the King Head ruler Iudge of al the Pastour and Bishop of our soules and therefore they whiche we acknowledge to be Kinges Headdes Rulers iudges Pastours and Bishoppes in earth be his Vicares Lieuetenantes Vicegerentes and Ministers al this power by what name so euer it be called being suche as is exercised and administred by his worde neede it is that for asmuche as Christe now dwelleth not with vs in visible presence his Churche haue one man to doo his steede of outwarde ruling in earth by his worde to administer al that is behooful and to performe the duetie of the head in respecte of the bodie Now that Christe is not conuersant with vs visibly as he was with his Disciples before his passion and preacheth no more vnto vs with his owne mouth sensibly to atteine the vnderstanding of his wil we maie not looke to haue God appeare vnto vs as he did vnto the Fathers of the olde Testament to speake to vs as he did to Moyses face to face mouth to mouth as the Scripture saith to sende vs his Angel as he did to the Virgine Marie to instruct vs with visions from Heauen Luc. 1. Actâ— 10. 2. Cor. 12. as he instructed Peter to take vs vp into the thirde heauen as he tooke Paule there to heare the secretes of his wil but it behoueth vs to be content for the working of that whiche remaineth to be done touching our Saluation with suche order as hath pleased him For it is manifest that Christe perfiteth al the Sacramentes of the Churche He it is that baptizeth he it is that forgeueth sinnes he is the true priest that hath offered him selfe on the Crosse and by whose power his body is daily consecrated and offered on the Aulter Yet bicause he would not remaine in visible presence with al beleeuers he chose menne to be his Ministers by whom the forsaid thinges should be done and ministred to them By like reason forasmuch as he would take froÌ„ the Churche his corporal and visible presence it behoued some one man to be put in CommissioÌ„ for bearing the charge and taking care of the Churche in lieu and steede of him selfe For this purpose before his AscensioÌ„ he said to Peter whose loue he had tried and found to be most feruent aboue al others feede my shepe and before his Passion Thou being againe coÌ„uerted strengthen thy brethren Iohan. 2â— Luc. 22. Math. 16. And to him specially he said by promise To thee wil I geue the keies of the kingdome of heauen thereby to shewe that the power of the keies should be deriued to others by him for the better keping of the vnitie of the Churche Now let it be iudged with what substantial learning you haue coÌ„futed this doctrine If it had not ben sounde and such as clearely openeth what we meane The former vvordes of my Confutation lefte out of M. Ievvelleâ— Defence when we cal the Pope the chiefe Pastour and supreme Gouernour of Christes Flocke doubtelesse you would not haue leafte it out of your booke For you making a shewe as though you had printed my whole booke againe and so confuted it take onely that pleaseth you and leaue out what seemeth to hard for you to answere mangling disordering and confounding my whole treatie to thinâ—â—â—â— it may beare the lesse face of learning and of good proufâ— of the thinges I intreate of which is a foule practise nâ—uer vsed by any lerned man hitherto And yet you would men to beleeue you deale truly and plainely in laying foorth my Confutation Yet here hauing nothing to saie elles least you should seeme to geue ouer you demaund of me what auncient Father euer thus skanned the woordes of the Popes Commission or why I haue auouched so great a matter of my selfe without farther authoritie Thus when I bring Fathers you cal for Scripture when I allege Scripture M. Iewels vvaie to continue vvrangling Iohan. 21 you aske what auncient Father euer vnderstode it so or why I dare so handle the Scripture so ye wil be sure not to lacke mater of wrangling what so euer I saie Yet thus I answer It is no hard peece of worke to proue by sufficient authoritie that these wordes Pasce oues meas feede my sheepe spoken to Peter and in him to his successours In Math. Homil. 55 in Iohan Homil 87. Grego lib. 4. epi. 32. Pascere gaue Peter and his successours Authoritie gâ—neral to gouerne the whole Churche S. Chysostome treating vpon these wordes saith as it is before alleged that the charge to rule the whole worlde was geuen to Peter and coÌ„sequently to his successours S. Gregorie saith the same as is before rehersed Pascere is not a word that signifieth to feede only as you know but also to rule and gouerne and therefore Homere calleth King Agamemnon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Pastor that is to say the ruler of the people And that it may appeare that I auouche not this matter and applie the place of S. Iohns Gospel to it of my selfe onely without farder Authoritie as you say it may please you to heare S. Ambrose teaching the same and in manner with the same woordes that I vsed writing vpon the .24 Chapter of S. Luke thus he saieth Ambro in cap. 24. Lucae Iohan. 21. Dominus interrogabat non vt disceret sed vt doceret quem eleuandus in coelum amoris sui nobis velut Vicarium relinquebat Sic enim habes Simon Ioannis diligis