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A34353 Considerations touching the late treaty for a peace held at Uxbridge with some reflections upon the principall occasions and causes of the frustration thereof : extracted out of the late printed full relation of the passages concerning it. Dugdale, William, Sir, 1605-1686. 1645 (1645) Wing C5920; ESTC R200044 28,388 39

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limited by the Statute made this Parliament and as it will happen in most other poynts of Civill-Right Not that I can think these Arguments brought on either side to be of equall worth and strength for as it appeares by all their Commissioners Answers which I have read so does it appeare by some of their Commissioners Arguments which I have heard that They had no Power to Conclude but that I thinke Ignorant Men in pursuing of any Truth to be like ignorant Hunters in pursuance of their Game who whatsoever they can light on by the by lay hold on strait and if they come to sell it will be sure to aske much more then it is worth or then any other man who knowes what the Thing is will give Imbecillitate suâ pretium rei metientes as he saies having no better measure of the things worth then their owne weakenesse Or that I thinke with Saint Hilary quot voluntates tot fides there are as many severall Faiths as there are Willes and when men of severall engagements fall into heats and disputes in poynts which are not mathematically demonstrable their severall affections ordinarily will improve into severall opinions and they will judge of things not according to other mens proofes but their own praepossessions And therefore for my part I have ever thought most of our Divinity Disputation but a kind of Church-Duell which does oftner declare which is the Stronger side then which the Truer so much the more often by how much it may fall out easily that the truth may be on neither But if men will proceed to Disputes and Arguments which seldome or never is to any purpose for either those persons at whose request or for whose satisfaction that Disputation is instituted are able to judge of the solidity and strength thereof or they are not If they are not able to judge of it they receive no good by it and If they are able to judge they do not need it it is a requisite expedient for hopefull proceedings in that kind That men proportion their Proofes according to the nature and condition of those Propositions which they are to prove If the matter be a Matter of Beliefe the Scripture is the best proofe thereof b●cause the Scripture exactly conteynes all matters of Faith but if it be a Matter of Practise the Scripture is not the best Proofe thereof because as it containes not exactly all Matters of Forme so neither is there any reason why it should containe them it being the principall if not the sole end of Scripture to transmit those Lawes of Faith unto the world by which it should be governed and not to transcribe the Formes Institutions and Difference in degrees of those Officers who then did and ever were to governe it Nor does it a whit impeach the Divine right and Institu●ion of Episcopacy in the Church founded in the first Apostles if there should chance to be found no particular Text in Scripture which in expresse tearmes does settle and establish that Foundation no more then it does impeach the Right of Monarchy in a State founded in the Roman Empire or in any other Kingdom of the World a thousand yeares agoe because in the Code or Digest of those Fundamentall Lawes by which those Kingdoms have been so long govern'd there is no particular Act or Lawe made in direct wordes which does establish and ordaine that Imperiall and Monarchicall Forme of Government And therefore there is no more reason in the world when a man sees or may see that the whole Church of Christ in all ages hath ever acknowledged and observed a difference of Order between a Bishop and a Priest why he should inferre that at first a Bishop and a Priest were all one no doubt because the word Presbyter in Scripture is sometime given to both Then there is when he reads or may read that the Church of the Iewes in all ages never had but One High-priest Why he should inferre that at last there were Two High Priests in that Church no doubt because Annas and Caiphas are both called High Priests together in Scripture I speake none of this as if I thought the Divine Right of Episcopacy could not be prov'd by Scripture for I rest most assured it is as cleerly prov'd from thence as the Observation of the Lords Day which particular I rather doe insist upon because in these Propositions for a well setled Peace There is One Act desired to be passed for the Abolishing of the One and Another Act desired to be passed for the Observation of the other when all knowing men must confesse their Interest and Tenure in the Scripture to be equall and the same But because I think that Scripture is not the right Topick out of which men ought to deduce and draw those proofes If it finde but any footing in the Scripture the Churches universall Practice of such a Proofe is the best Proof that can be made of such a Practice In regard that Matters of Faith and Good Life as they are Essentiall to the Church so they are Vnivocall and the Scripture as it delivers them once so it delivers them ever but Matters of Forme and Government if they should be confest Essentiall to the Church in their Institutions yet are they not alwaies Vnivocall in their operations but of necessity must rise and fall and either admit of grouth or seem to doe so according to the conditions and changes of time that will suite best unto them Besides the condition of the Mysticall Body the body of the Church as considered in her Infancy to my thinking is not much unlike to the condition of the Naturall body the body of Man as considered in His and the severall operation of orders in the one is not much unlike to the severall operation of soules in the other now we know that the reasonable soule albeit a soule of another order then the sensitive being derived from a nobler extraction and origine and infused from the beginning into the Body no lesse then it yet it exercises little or no distinct operations in that body from it till such time as that body come to yeares of understanding where Reason may have room and scope to work in at her pleasure In like manner that Order of Episcopacy might be planted from the beginning in the Church and be superinduc't upon this order of Preisthood as a distinct and nobler Order from it and yet in the nonage of the Church there may be little or no distinction found in the Scripture of Administration of those Orders which then began most eminently to appear when that Body of the Church was a little more grown and come to years and had Instruments fitted and Organs well prepared for the execution thereof Furthermore it would be considered that there is something almost in every practicall Text of Scripture like to that which the Painters call the Aire in every Face if all the parts of a
purpose for admitting of Debates is all one as for a man to think to make a Syllogisme of nothing but Conclusions because he would have no Proposition denyed Besides if nothing lesse then the granting of all these Demands can obtaine a Peace as it should seeme it cannot I would faine know what these men propose unto themselves if they should obtaine by Warre What can They have more to Aske or the King to Give unlesse it were his Life and if any thing secure that it must be their Scorne as preferring that of any Constables before it Suppose I doubt not but the King of Kings will ever keep them at the distance of a Supposition and therefore I suppose that all Successe which ever yet crown'd impious Attempt should wait on thi● Rebellion and make them Lucky Villaines for I find 〈◊〉 even the Rebell Iewes a Nation condemn'd to Slavery 〈◊〉 the sacking of Hierusalem were prosperous and for tunate once for seaven yeares together in an Insurrection under the Persian which is more then ever they could boast off either before or since Yet I dare say that in these Propositions They have endeavoured to lay some particular Obligations upon the King in the way to Peace as for example that Imperious Obstruction of the Two Princes Right in their Electorall Dignity which is the provision of the 22th Proposition which They themselves will never be able to make good unto their Malice if they should succeed and prosper in this unnaturall Warre And are these fit Ingredients for a Peace If they can gaine that in order to a Peace that is a Curbe and Bridle on the Imperiall Law which they cannot loose by Warre because they never had it I should commend the playing of their Cardes and think they doe just as some cunning Merchants of their owne Miseries use to doe that will ordinarily get more by the Breif then they could loose by the Fire But you will say They demanded of the King in order to our Peace in a manner but two things An abolition of Episcopall Government for the setling of the Church and a disposall of the Militia to Commissioners of their owne Nomination for the securing of the State And to say truth They did not but then if you mark it These two particulars doe stand out and shew themselves as the most prominent pieces of all their Propositions as those Two teeth did in the Worme which C●esias writes of in his Indian Stories which indeed were all the teeth that Worme had and yet with those two Teeth was that Worme able to pull downe any Camel or Oxe that happened to come neare him The bare concession of these involves a totall Alteration in the Government both of the Spirituall and Civill State and all other things contained in their Propositions non sunt plura sed minora as Quintilian speakes They are not more parts of Insolence but lesser pieces Concerning the abolishing of Episcopacy there passed Arguments with the Divines one side pressing for it and the 〈◊〉 against it Those Arguments on our part that concluded against the abolishing thereof were drawne as I have learnt from these three severall Heads First from the poynt of Perjury the King having taken a Solemne Oath to maintaine the Rights Liberties of Holy Church Secondly from the poynt of Sacriledge The alienation of Things offer'd unto God being accompanied still with visible and more then ordinary Iudgements from God either upon the Persons or Fortunes or Families of those men that are the chiefe Instruments and Actors therein and Thirdly from the poynt of Divine Right Episcopacy having been accounted and accepted as an Ordinance and Institution of Christ himselfe by the most Learned men that have lived in all Ages of the Church Against those Arguments deduced from the two first heads there was scarse any thing offered in the shape of a Reply which indeed was not Ridiculous even in the Iudgement of their owne Commissioners for it appear'd in those Two questions of Sacriledge and Perjury Their understanding of the State thereof was like their Conscience of the Sinne little or just none at all Indeed little could be said by greater Clerkes then they for as the Oratour observes of some Creatures that are pretty nimble at shifting for themselves so long as they are in Cranies and in Holes who notwithstanding are soone overtaken and caught when they are brought out into an open Field where every man may see them So there are some pieces of Truth which will admit of disquisition whither they be so or no so long as they doe but peep now and then out of the Pitt which when they are once laid open to the understanding will beare no Argument because they carry their owne light with them that does betray them But as touching the third Head those Arguments that were instituted in defence of the Divine Right thereof out of the Scriptures to those They made a shift to say something and although that something were no more like an Answer then an Ape is like a Man yet their owne Commissioners who saw them beaten from their two other Workes and yet were resolved never to give up the Fort abett those Answers and seeme to wonder that we were not satisfied therewith Alas I cannot blame young Gamesters at disputing if they catch up their last Stake It was all they had to live on The two former Heads that of Sacriledge and the other of Perjury they frighted them so that they durst not look them in the Faces They were indeed so open and so demonstrable But this Third Head of Divine Right because they thought it a Head in a Bagge because They knew it was more Problematicall and would admit colours on either side therefore they stick close to that and thinke they can avoyd all Arguments from Scripture that may be brought to prove it nay They thinke they can raise as good Arguments out of the Scripture that shall conclude against it And truely I would not have any man thinke it strange for men of contrary Perswasions to have contrary Conceptions upon some Texts of Scripture which Scripture they did neither make nor write and which Scripture is brought to prove and evidence a Truth perchance which either it did not intend at all or but upon occasion and by the by as it may well happen in the case of Episcopacy and in most other poynts of Christian Practice Why should any man I say wonder at this that shall observe the very same Men according to their different and divided interests to have as divided and different understandings upon some Texts of Law which Law notwithstanding they themselves fram'd and made and which Law was brought to prove and evidence a Truth which was one of the very Reasons why that Law was made as it happened afterwards in the Case of the Kings Power in making a Cessation with Ireland whither it were limited or whither it were not
Face be taken in their right feature and proportions and that Aire be not taken which Aire is a kind of center wherein all consents of similitude and likenesse meet one man will confidently pronounce the Face is like and another will as confidently pronounce as he that it is not and both believe themselves to be very right in judgement If the sense of the words of any Text be taken and understood according to the partiall and particular acceptation of those words in other places and then the Generall Aire the Scope and Harmony of the whole Text with that which went before and that which followes The Relation and Interest which it hath to persons and places or that cast of the lo●ke as it were which it hath upon some Times Vsages and Customes if all this be not taken and understood as well One man may deduce one conclusion from that text and another man another crosse to that and both think themselves to have inferred justly No mervaile then if these men should produce some Texts of Scripture that colour for Presbytery to those mens Apprehensions that are resolv'd before to set it up and no mervaile if they produce other Texts that look a squint upon Episcopacy to those mens understanding that are resolv'd before to pull it downe For when the Aire of the Face is mist it is no longer a Picture but a Phancy and whom every man is pleas'd to think it like like to them it is and when the Aire of a T●xt is mist as they generally either never goe about to take it or ever misse it That text is like the Children of Israells Manna which will tast to every man according to the particular affection and inclination of his own palate or like Pauso's Horse which was ever ready made whither you would have the Head or Heeles stand uppermost all was one And therefore our Commissioners chalkt them out the readiest way to detect the unlawfulnesse of Episcopall Government if there were any when They desired to be informed by them when and where any Nationall Church since the Apostles time was ever governed without it For if they pretend that Government to be unlawfull and yet can shew no other it is a shrewd argument that they doe but pretend it For it can hardly be imagined that Christ should ordaine but one only lawfull forme of Government in his Church that was to abide even unto the end of the World and that that Forme should so soon decay and perish as that there should not remaine the least foot-step or impression of it in his Church for the whole space of Fifteen hundred years together But their Commissioners will not heare of this They tell us that what our Lords did mention concerning a Nationall Church is a new Question which hath not as yet been any part of the subject of their Debate Good Lord I how well acquainted are these men with Congregationall and Classicall and Synodicall and Nationall Assemblies which are for them and what a strange matter they make of a Nationall Church because it is against them This is but just as I have known some beggars who will make you believe they do not understand scarce a word of good English because they find they can get more with Canting Well They are willing for all this to believe Episcopall Government unlawfull and I make no question at least no new Question for I believe it is already stated but that They look to be well paid for their opinion But this I must tell them I would not have them found that unlawfulnesse on Scripture or I would have them finde it For as concerning all their arguments out of Scripture which have hitherto been brought against it I will say no more but this That they have concluded no more against Episcopacy even to those very persons that have such unequall thoughts and so prejudicate affections to that sacred Order Then they may conclude when they please against the keeping of the Lords Day against the Baptizing of Infants against Originall sinne or in a word against any one Article either of Christian Practice or Beliefe established in the Church when the disbeliefe of any one of these Articles is like to prove as advantagious and beneficiall to them as the disbelieving of this Episcopacy hath done Concerning the Militia their demands were Two First They demand the sole Nomination of all the Persons to be entrusted therewith wholly to themselves not allowing the King not only the Power of nomination of one man in Twenty but not so much as the Power of exception against one man in Twenty Secondly they demand the Continuance of this Power during pleasure and without any limitation or restriction of Time And truely when I met with this I began to think that in short time the Rebels would invest the King with such a Prerogative as Agatharcides reports of the Sabaeans that they allowed their King So long as he kept close and within his Court it was lawfull for him to doe any thing what he would but if once he stirr'd a foot but out of his Palace it was then lawfull for them to stone him His Majesties most Loyall and most Humble Subjects will be content to spare him a little Honour but they will be sure to clip and pare him to the quick of all His Power So that upon the whole matter the Case is this Iohn a Nokes and Iohn a Stiles fell out and fought and having drawne some bloud one from another at last they were contented to put up their Swords and be made Friends Provided that both their Swords might be put into such hands as might prevent all further quarrelling betweene them Iohn a Stiles he proposes that both their Swordes may be put into Two friends hands that the ones Friend may keep the one and the others Friend the other But Iohn a Nokes though causelessely he drew first on Iohn a Stiles which meant him no harme yet now afraid least Iohn a Stiles should doe him mischiefe will have both the Swords put into his owne hands or He will not be Friends Now certainly though upon severe examination of this offer'd Composition there be no reall security founded upon that motion even of Iohn a Stiles for if the Two Swords should be put into two Friends hands as he desires The Danger might be more because They might fall out also as the other did before them But the Security is not because two Persons are no more secure against two then one against one yet there is more Imaginable security that is Men will be more apt to conceive and imagine that Iohn a Stiles intended and meant honestly as equally and as indifferently to provide for both their securities as possibly upon the suddaine he could in this His way then They can imagine or conceive that Iohn a Nokes could intend or meane in that way of His And yet this is the way the Parliament will