Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	africa_n	bishop_n	rome_n	4,127	5	6.9616	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A94733	An apology or plea for the Two treatises, and appendix to them concerning infant-baptisme; published Decemb. 15. 1645. Against the unjust charges, complaints, and censures of Doctor Nathanael Homes, Mr Iohn Geree, Mr Stephen Marshall, Mr John Ley, and Mr William Hussey; together with a postscript by way of reply to Mr Blakes answer to Mr Tombes his letter, and Mr Edmund Calamy, and Mr Richard Vines preface to it. Wherein the principall heads of the dispute concerning infant-baptism are handled, and the insufficiency of the writings opposed to the two treatises manifested. / By Iohn Tombes, B.D.	Tombes, John, 1603?-1676.	1646 (1646)	Wing T1801; Thomason E352_1; ESTC R201072	143,666	170

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 passion or such like cause usually befals such meetings and is the cause of much woe to the Church of God Be it well or ill taken liberavi animam meam meam I have freed my owne soule There are some other things wherewith Mr Marshal endeavors to render me a suspected person pag. 29. of his defence I cannot but wonder why you who pretend to be familiarly acquainted with the secrets of Antiquity should have so much correspondency with them who are not likely to helpe you with any certaine intelligence Hugo Grotius is the strongest stake to support your tottering hedge and sure I am Grotius was a friend to the Socinians and it is well knowne what they thinke of Baptisme To this I answer it is untrue that I any where pretend to be familia●ly acquainted with the secrets of Antiquity I say so farre as I can by search find it is thus and thus but never did take upon me familiar acquaintance with the secrets of Antiquity It seemes Master Marshal had the helpe of his friend and so there was a Colledge to answer my Booke yet after he and his friend have done all they could in this point it doth not yet appeare but that I was in the right to wit that Infant baptisme is not so ancient as is pretended For he hath not yet acquitted the treatise of questions ad Orthodoxos from bastardy nor hath he answered that which I said that the words and whole scope of Irenaeus lib. 2 c. 39. shew that the place is not meant of Baptisme but with a new device such as it concernes the authors conscience to looke to when he is told the words and whole scope shew that the place is not meant of Baptisme in which I chiefely alleaged the words the answerer saies nothing to that but maimedly sets downe my words thus In the last place you labour to prove that it is not meant of Baptisme from Iren●●us his scope in that place And then sayes that though the scope be so yet the words prove the question in debate before us Which is a manifest abusing the reader never answering the reason I gave from the very words and whole scope that they could not be understood of the rite of Baptisme And for Origen all that is yet brought cannot acquit the passages alleaged from suspicion of being supposititious considering that Origen is taxed for Pelagianizing whereas those words are point-blanke against them which being observed by me the answerer thought it wisedome to say nothing to it And for the rest of the testimonies Master Marshall brought I did confesse Nazianzen Cyprian Augustin Hierom Ambrose mention Paedobaptisme but never upon Mr Marshal's ground federal holines but upon 〈◊〉 supposed necessity to save the Infant from perishing Master Marshall it seems rests much on Augustines words that he saith Hoc Ecclesia semper habuit semper tenuit hoc a majorum fide accepit hoc usque in finem perseveranter custodit He puts it therefore in the Title pag. 55. of his Defence and pag. 9. quotes for these wordes Augustin Serm. 15. de verbis Apost I have read over that Sermon tom 10 of his workes againe and againe and find not those wordes there nor any to that purpose I have also read Sermon 14. de verbis Apostoli which hath the title de Baptisme parvulorum adversus P●lagianos and I find not there those words onely these I find there Sanctus Cyprianus est quem in manus sumpsi antiquus Episcopus sedis hujus quid senserit de Baptismo parvulorum immo quid semper Ecclesiam sensisse monstraver●● p●ululum acc●pit● I deny not but that those wordes may be in 〈◊〉 but if Master Marshall had given me more certaine direction where to find them I might then perhaps have given a more direct answer However for these reasons I conceive litle cause to be moved with those words First because I find not that Augustin tooke it to be the tenet of the Church from any other ground then the Epistle of Cyprian 59. ad Fidum concerning which he saith that Cyprian hath shewed how the Church hath alwayes held it both in the words above cited tom 10. Serm. 14. de verbis Apost tom 7. lib. 2. de peccat merit● remiss c. 5. c. And yet he that reads that Epistle of Cyprian shall find Cyprian onely declaring the determination of the Councill of 66 Bishops there mentioned but nothing of the Churches alwayes holding it Secondly The famous story of the likelihood of cheating Augustine and the rest of the African Bishops with a supposititious Canon of the Nicen Council by three Roman Bishops to confirme Appeales to Rome from Africa in the case of Apiarius doth me thinkes shew that Augustin might easily be mistaken about the tenet of the Church Thirdly The many speeches in Augustin as Epist 118. and elswhere and others of the Ancients about Easter Lent-fast Episcopacy infant Communion and other traditions which are not credited by Protestant nor some of them by some Popish writers doe cleare him from arrogance or impudence that should say there is no great reason to give so much credit to that large assertion of Augustin if it be his as Master Marshal and some others seem to give to it Fourthly Those words of Augustin tom 7. de peccat merito remissione lib. 10. c. 34. Optime Punici Christiani baptismum nihil aliud quam salutem sacramentum corporis Christi nihil aliud quam vitam vocant Unde nisi ex antiquant existimo ● Apostolica traditione qua Ecclesia Christi i●situm tenent pr●ter baptismum participationem Dominicae me●s● non solum non ad regnum Dei sed nec ad salutem vitam aeternam posse quenquam hominum pervenire do me thinkes evidence that Augustin sometimes called that the Churches tenet which he gathered by conjecture from the practice of the African Christians knowne to him But it will be said the Pelagians did not deny Infant baptisme to have been the practise of the Church I answer nor do I deny that it was in Augustines time the practise of the Latin and Greek Churches to baptize Infants in case of necessity but that it was so from the beginning and alwayes in the Church we do not find the Pelagians yeelded yet did they not perhaps question it either because they were carried away with that erroneous rule that what they saw every where practised and found not when it began to take that for an Apostolicall tradition or because of the tyranny of the present custome which Augustine himselfe somewhere confesseth that though he misliked yet liberius improbare non andeo But saith Master Marshal pag. 55. I cannot but conceive it likely that Augustines Ecclesia semper habuit semper tenuit should sway as much with the intelligent impartial Reader as Master Tombes his non semper habuit non semper tenuit I grant it should