Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	admit_v	baptism_n	child_n	2,681	5	5.7534	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A01086	Certaine considerations touching the better pacification, and edification of the Church of England dedicated to His most excellent Maiestie.	Bacon, Francis, 1561-1626.	1604 (1604)	STC 1120; ESTC S101540	19,100	46

be not with drawne from the Liturgie For though the guift of Preaching bee farre aboue that of Reading yet the action of the Liturgie is as high and holy as that of the Sermon It is said Domus me a domus or ationis vocabitur The house of Prayer not the house of Preaching And whereas the Apostle saith How shall men call vpon him on whom they haue not belerued and how shal they beleeue vnlesse they heare and how shall they beare without a Preacher It appeareth that as Preaching is the more originall so Prayer is the more finall as the difference is between the seed and the fruit for the keeping of Gods Law is the fruit of the teaching of the Law and Prayer or Inuecation or Diuine seruice or Liturgie for these be but varietie of termes is the mediate hallowing of the Name of God and the principall worke of the first Table and of the great Commandement of the Law of God It is true that the Preaching of the holy word of God is the sowing of the seed it is the lifting vp of the brazen serpent the Ministrie of Faith and the ordinary meanes of saluation but yet it is good to take example how that the best Actions of the worship of God may be extolled excessiuely and superstitiously As the extolling of the Sacrament bred the superstition of the Masse the extolling of the Liturgie and prayers bred the superstition of the Monasticall orders and oraisons And so no doubt Preaching likewise may be magnified and extolled superstitioufly as if all the whole body of Gods worship should be turned into an eare So as none as I suppose of sound judgement will derogate from the Liturgie if the forme thereof be in all parts agreeable to the word of God the example of the Primitiue Church and that holy decency which S. Paul commendeth And therefore first that there be a set forme of prayer and that it be not left either to an extemporall forme or to an arbitrarie forme Secondly that it consist aswell of lawdes hymnes and thankesgiuings as of petitions prayers supplications Thirdly that the forme therof be quickned with some shortnes and diuersities of prayers and hymnes and with some interchanges of the voyce of the people as well as of the voyce of the Minister Fourthly that it admit some distinctions of times and commemorations of Gods principal benefits as well generall as particular Fifthly that prayers likewise be appropriated to seuerall necessities and occasions of the Church Sixtly that there be a forme likewise of words and Liturgie in the administration of the Sacraments and in the denouncing of the censures of the Church and other holy actions and solemnities These things I thinke will not bee much controuerted But for the particular exceptions to the Liturgie in forme as it now stands I thinke diuers of them allowing they were just yet seeme they not to be weightie otherwise then that nothing ought to bee accounted light in matters of Religion and pietie as the Heathen himselfe could say Etiam vultu sape laeditur pietas That the word Priest should not bee continued especially with offence the word Minister being already made familiar This may be said that it is a good Rule in translation neuer to confound that in one word in the translation which is precisely distinguished in two words in the originall for doubt of aequiuocation and traducing And therefore seeing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bee alwayes distinguished in the originall and the one vsed for a Sacrificer the other for a Minister the word Priest beeing made common to both whatsoeuer the deriuation be yet in vse it confoundeth the Minister with the Sacrificer And for an example of this kind I did euer allow the discretion and tendernesse of the Rhemish translation in this Point that finding in the originall the Word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and neuer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doe euer translate Charitie and neuer Loue because of the indifferencie and equiuocation of the word with impure Loue. Touching the Absolution it is not vnworthy consideration whether it may not bee thought vnproper and vnnecessary for there are but two sorts of Absolution both supposing an obligation precedent the one vpon an Excommunication which is Religious and Primitiue the other vpon Confession and Pennance which is superstitious or at least positiue and both particular neither generall Therefore since the one is taken away and the other hath his proper case what doth a generall Absolution wherin there is neither Penance nor Excommunication precedent For the Church neuer looseth but where the Church hath bound And surely I may thinke this at the first was allowed in a kind of Spirituall discretion because the Church thought the people could not bee suddenly weaned from their conceit of assoyling to which they bad heene so long accustomed For Confirmation to my vnderstanding the state of the Question is whether it bee not a matter mistaken and altered by time and whether that be not now made a subsequent to Baptisme which was indeed an inducement to the Communion For whereas in the Primitiue Church children were examined of their Faith before they were admitted to the Communion time may seeme to haue turned it to referre as if it had beene to receiue a confirmation of their Baptisme For Priuate Baptisme by Women or Lay-persons the best Diuines doe vtterly condemne it and I heare it not generally defended and I haue often maruelled that when the Booke in the Preface to publique Baptisme doth acknowledge that Baptisme in the practise of the Primitiue Church was anniuersarie and but at set and certaine times which sheweth that the Primitiue Church did not attribute so much to the Ceremonie as they would breake an outward and generall order for it the Booke should afterwards allow of Priuate Baptisme as if the Ceremonie were of that necessitie as the very Institution which committed Baptisme onely to the Ministers should bee broken in regard of the supposed necessitie And therefore this point of all others I thinke was but a concessum propter duritiam cordis For the forme of celebrating Matrimonie the Ring seemeth to many euen of vulgar sence and vnderstanding a Ceremonie not graue specially to be made as the words make it the essentiall part of the action besides some other of the words are noted in speech to bee not so decent and fit For Musicke in Churches That there should be singing of Psalmes and spirituall songs is not denied so the Question is De modo wherein if a man will looke attentiuely into the order and obseruance of it it is easie to discerue betweene the wisedome of the institution and the excesseof the late times For first there are no Songs or Verses sung by the Quire which are not supposed by continuall vse to bee so familiar with the people as they haue them without booke whereby the sound hutteth not the vnderstanding and

Surely the wisedome of the Kingdome hath beene otherwise in experience for three hundred yeares space at the least But if it bee said to me that there is a difference betweene Ciuill causes and Ecclesiasticall they may as well tell me that Churches and Chappels need no reparations though Castles and houses doe whereas commonly to speake truth dilapidations of the inward and spirituall edifications of the Church of God are in all times as great as the outward and materiall Sure I am that the very word and stile of Reformation vsed by our Sauiour ab initio non suit it a was applyed to Church matters aud those of the highest nature concerning the Law morall Neuerthelesse hee were both vnthankefull and unwise that would denie but that the Church of England during the time of Queene Elizabeth of famous memorie did flourish If I should compare it with forraine churches I would rather the comparison shouldbe in the vertues then as some make it in the defects rather I say as betweene the Vine the Oliue which should be most fruitfull not as between the bryer and the thistle which should bee most vnprofitable For that reuerence should be vsed to the Church which the good sonnes of Noah vsed to their fathers nakednesse that is as it were to goebackwards and to helpe the defects thereof and yet to dissemble them And it is to be acknowledged that scarcely any church since the Primitiue Church yeelded in like manner of yeares and Latitude of Countrey a greater number of excellent Preachers Famous Writers and graue Gouernours but for the discipline and Orders of the Church as many and the chiefest of them are very holy and good so yet if Saint Iohn were to indite an Epistle to the church of England as hee did to them of Asia it would sure haue the clause Habeo aduers us to pauca And no more for this point sauing that as an appendixe thereunto it is not amisle to touch that obiection which is made to the time and not to the matter pretending that is Reformation were necessarie yet it were not now seasonable at your Matesties first entrance Yct Hippocrates saith si quid moues à principio moue And the wisedome of all examples doth shew that the wisest Princes as they haue eue been the most sparing in remoouing or alteration of seruants and officers vpon their comming in so for remoouing of abuses and enormities and for reforming of Lawes and the policie of their States they haue chiefly sought to enable and commend their beginnings therewith knowing that the first impression with people continueth long and when mens mindes are most in expectation and suspence then are they best wrought and managed And therefore it seemeth to me that as the spring of nature I meane the spring of the yeare is the best time for purging and medicining the naturall body so the spring of Kingdoms is the most proper season for the purging and rectifying of politique bodies There remaineth yet an obiection rather of suspition then of reason and yet such as I thinke maketh a great impression in the mindes of very wise and well affected persons which is That if way be giuen to mutation though it be in taking away abuses get it may so acquaint men with sweetnesse of change as it will vndermine the stabilitie euen of that which is sound and good This surely had beene a good and true allegation in the ancient contentions and diuisions betweene the people and the Senate of Reme where things were carried at the appetites of multitudes which can neuer keepe within the compasse of any moderation But these things beeing with vs to haue an orderly passage vnder a King who hath a Royall power and approued judgement and knoweth as well the measure of things as the nature of them is surely a needlesse feare For they need not doubt but your Maiestie with the aduise of your Councell will discerne what things are intermingled like the rares amongst the wheat which haue their rootes so inwrapped and intangled as the one cannot be pulled vp without indangering the other and what are mingled but as the chaffe and the corne which needs but a fanne to fift and seuer them So much therefore for the first point of no reformation to be admitted at all For the second point That there should be but one forme of Discipline in all Churches and that imposed by a necessitie of a commandement and prescript out of the word of God it is a matter Volumes haue beene compiled of and therefore cannot receiue a briefe redargution I for my part doe confesse that in reuealing the Scriptures I could neuer find any such thing but that God had left the like libertie to the Church-gouernment as he hath done to the Ciuil gouernment to be varied according to time and place and accidents which neuerthelesse his high and diuine prouidence doth order and dispose for all ciuill gouernments are restrained from God vnto the genarall grounds of Iustice and manners but the policies and formes of them are left free So that Monarchies and Kingdomes Senates and Seignories popular States and Communalties are all lawfull and where they are planted ought to bee maintained inuiolate So likewise in Church matters the substance of Doctrine is immutable and so are the generall Rules of gouernment but for Rites and Ceremonies and for the particular Hierarchies policies and disciplines of Churches they be left at large And therefore it is good wee returne vnto the ancient bonds of vnitie in the Church of God which was one Faith one Baptisme and not one Hierarchie one Discipline and that wee obserue the league of Christians as it is penned by our Sauiour Christ which is in substance of doctrine this Hee that is nos with vs is against vs. But in things indifferent and but of circumstance this Hee that is not against vs is with vs. In these things so as the generall rules be obserued that Christs Flocks be fed that there be a succession in Byshops and Ministers which are the Prophets of the New Testament that there be a due reuerent vse of the power of the Keyes that these that Preach the Gospell liue of the Gospell that all things tend to edification that all things bee done in order and with decencie and the like the rest is left to the holy wisedome and spirituall discretion of the master-builders and inferiour builders in Christs Church as it is excellently alluded by that Father that noted that Christs Garment was without seame and yet the Churches garment was of diuers colours and thereupon setteth downe for a Rule In veste varies as sit scissura non sit In which varietie neuerthelesse it is a safe and a wise course to follow good examples and presidents But then the rule of imitation and example is to consider not onely which are the best but which are the likest as namely the gouernment of the Church in the purest times