they_o do_v look_v upon_o abundance_n of_o our_o presbyterial_a minister_n as_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n 2_o i_o know_v that_o they_o will_v disapprove_v of_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o who_o have_v separate_v from_o the_o minister_n who_o they_o have_v before_o choose_v and_o the_o godly_a congregation_n upon_o this_o notion_n as_o i_o know_v some_o have_v do_v deceive_v i_o do_v honour_n the_o grace_n of_o divers_a of_o those_o christian_n who_o separate_v but_o satan_n get_v into_o a_o angel_n of_o light_n and_o deceive_v especial_o from_o that_o famous_a congregation_n of_o dedham_n of_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v that_o for_o a_o parochial_a congregation_n there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a number_n of_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o any_o congregation_n in_o england_n i_o be_o sure_a there_o be_v not_o before_o this_o separation_n be_v make_v and_o for_o the_o minister_n i_o speak_v not_o of_o they_o they_o be_v man_n well_o know_v i_o wish_v i_o have_v nothing_o more_o to_o trouble_v i_o then_o to_o live_v under_o that_o ministry_n in_o that_o congregation_n i_o hope_v whereas_o now_o i_o be_o a_o sad_a man_n i_o shall_v be_v as_o cheerful_a as_o any_o man_n in_o england_n mr._n burrough_n say_v he_o can_v communicate_v in_o that_o congregation_n than_o it_o seem_v he_o do_v not_o question_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o true_a minister_n object_n but_o if_o you_o say_v our_o new_a england_n minister_n do_v renounce_v their_o ordination_n which_o they_o have_v here_o for_o they_o be_v ordain_v again_o answ_n 70_o see_v answ_n to_o 32._o q._n 70_o it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v ordain_v again_o but_o i_o never_o hear_v it_o be_v upon_o that_o ground_n for_o let_v a_o minister_n be_v ordain_v there_o in_o one_o church_n if_o there_o be_v cause_n of_o his_o removal_n and_o so_o be_v elect_v in_o another_o church_n they_o ordain_v he_o again_o three_o i_o can_v say_v this_o our_o new_a england_n minister_n have_v often_o desire_v and_o frequent_o admit_v to_o preach_v in_o their_o congregation_n that_o go_v from_o hence_o but_o be_v not_o ordain_v there_o but_o our_o minister_n of_o new_a england_n be_v here_o judge_v nothing_o worth_a but_o be_v as_o contemptible_a as_o any_o in_o the_o mouth_n of_o our_o separatist_n yet_o they_o be_v man_n of_o worth_n second_o i_o answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v it_o come_v through_o and_o from_o the_o romish_a synagogue_n if_o your_o argument_n have_v any_o force_n you_o must_v cast_v it_o thus_o those_o minister_n which_o stand_v by_o a_o romish_a institution_n be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n stand_v by_o a_o romish_a institution_n ergo_fw-la the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n the_o major_a you_o will_v grant_v and_o if_o we_o can_v prove_v the_o minor_a our_o minister_n shall_v utter_o renounce_v their_o ordination_n i_o dare_v undertake_v for_o they_o but_o the_o minor_a be_v very_o false_a they_o stand_v 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away_o that_o argument_n run_v as_o strong_a against_o our_o baptism_n and_o any_o other_o ordinance_n with_o which_o though_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n mingle_v their_o invention_n do_v they_o therefore_o null_a the_o ordinance_n the_o vessel_n that_o be_v once_o dedicate_v to_o god_n by_o his_o own_o institution_n though_o they_o be_v put_v into_o the_o house_n of_o nebuchadnezar_n god_n and_o those_o that_o be_v fit_a very_o like_v use_v by_o belshazzar_n to_o drink_v wine_n in_o when_o he_o praise_v the_o god_n etc._n etc._n they_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o new_a cast_v again_o but_o carry_v to_o jerusalem_n fin_n ezra_n 1.7_o ad_fw-la fin_n i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n johnson_n a_o man_n great_a i_o be_o sure_a among_o the_o brethren_n of_o the_o separation_n though_o the_o separatist_n in_o our_o day_n make_v a_o tush_o at_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o man_n yea_o although_o he_o be_v of_o the_o separation_n but_o yet_o consider_v the_o reason_n which_o sway_v he_o and_o then_o judge_v the_o case_n be_v this_o one_o that_o be_v a_o minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v after_o choose_v teacher_n to_o a_o separate_a congregation_n without_o any_o new_a impose_v of_o hand_n this_o he_o undertake_v to_o justify_v thus_o 1_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v of_o god_n and_o not_o a_o invention_n of_o man_n it_o be_v not_o a_o postor_n threshold_n first_o bring_v by_o antichrist_n into_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n but_o have_v therein_o afore_o antichrist_n sit_v there_o 2._o baptism_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v join_v together_o among_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o foundation_n speak_v of_o heb._n 6.2_o therefore_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v regard_v 3._o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n still_o give_v to_o the_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n as_o they_o do_v also_o still_o administer_v baptism_n 4._o we_o find_v not_o either_o precept_n example_n or_o ground_n in_o the_o scripture_n bind_v we_o to_o the_o repetition_n of_o it_o 5._o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n in_o israel_n become_v unclean_a when_o afterward_o they_o be_v cleanse_v retain_v still_o their_o place_n of_o be_v priest_n and_o levite_n and_o the_o child_n of_o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n succeed_v after_o they_o â—id_v administer_v without_o a_o new_a anoint_v or_o new_a imposition_n of_o hand_n etc._n etc._n thus_o then_o as_o mr._n johnson_n and_o mr._n ainsworth_n oppose_v rebaptization_n because_o baptism_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v have_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n before_o she_o fall_v into_o apostasy_n and_o have_v be_v there_o continue_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n how_o ever_o co-mingled_n with_o many_o invention_n of_o their_o own_o so_o mr._n johnson_n defend_v the_o ordination_n of_o that_o minister_n which_o he_o have_v in_o england_n because_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n before_o her_o apostasy_n and_o be_v there_o continue_v to_o this_o day_n though_o mix_v with_o many_o pollution_n of_o their_o own_o i_o pray_v only_o note_v this_o that_o whereas_o i_o say_v they_o stand_v by_o their_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o mean_v that_o only_o but_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n of_o which_o i_o speak_v before_o and_o that_o the_o separatist_n can_v deny_v which_o yet_o they_o make_v the_o great_a matter_n in_o a_o minister_n call_v three_o i_o answer_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v of_o any_o force_n it_o will_v rather_o prevail_v against_o the_o first_o reformer_n as_o in_o other_o nation_n so_o against_o our_o first_o reformer_n in_o england_n who_o come_v new_o out_o of_o popery_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o we_o who_o have_v be_v above_o ninety_o year_n out_o of_o that_o bondage_n and_o have_v cast_v off_o their_o government_n worship_n and_o doctrine_n so_o far_o as_o antichristian_a for_o a_o long_a time_n but_o if_o our_o first_o reformer_n be_v able_a enough_o to_o maintain_v their_o call_n then_o much_o more_o our_o minister_n four_o but_o if_o you_o will_v throw_v away_o all_o that_o come_v through_o rome_n let_v we_o see_v what_o course_n you_o will_v take_v when_o you_o have_v deny_v all_o the_o ordinance_n that_o have_v be_v administer_v for_o these_o ninety_o year_n in_o england_n for_o if_o no_o ministry_n then_o certain_o no_o authoritative_a preach_n no_o sacrament_n and_o thus_o you_o have_v renounce_v yvor_o baptism_n which_o you_o have_v by_o these_o minister_n what_o method_n will_v you_o take_v in_o your_o reformation_n how_o will_v you_o come_v to_o be_v rebaptise_v you_o will_v tell_v i_o you_o will_v covenant_v together_o and_o then_o elect_v and_o ordain_v a_o minister_n and_o he_o shall_v baptize_v of_o this_o more_o afterward_o but_o
be_v say_v what_o need_v of_o that_o ordination_n they_o may_v preach_v without_o it_o be_v true_a they_o may_v but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o comfortable_a as_o when_o man_n be_v set_v apart_o by_o a_o divine_a institution_n there_o be_v a_o authority_n more_o confer_v they_o may_v now_o baptize_v as_o they_o find_v success_n of_o their_o ministry_n which_o be_v the_o old_a way_n and_o shall_v not_o need_v be_v put_v to_o those_o trouble_n which_o now_o they_o be_v here_o suppose_v laborious_a mr._n eliot_n be_v not_o ordain_v who_o shall_v baptize_v the_o indian_n call_v home_o to_o christ_n by_o he_o the_o first_o preacher_n that_o come_v into_o england_n be_v ordain_v before_o elect_a here_o as_o suppose_v they_o shall_v convert_v divers_a indian_n forty_o or_o fifty_o mile_n from_o any_o plantation_n how_o shall_v these_o be_v baptize_v what_o shall_v they_o now_o elect_v and_o ordain_v these_o man_n shall_v unbaptised_a person_n ordain_v a_o officer_n where_o have_v we_o a_o rule_n for_o that_o then_o it_o seem_v all_o these_o must_v come_v to_o another_o church_n etc._n etc._n forty_o or_o fifty_o mile_n distant_a to_o a_o church_n also_o who_o language_n they_o understand_v not_o and_o there_o be_v baptize_v by_o a_o minister_n who_o they_o understand_v not_o nor_o he_o they_o here_o be_v many_o odd_a thing_n fall_v in_o cross_a to_o all_o scripture_n precedent_n but_o to_o have_v these_o ordain_v and_o send_v forth_o be_v not_o cross_v to_o the_o scripture_n precedent_n but_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v than_o ordination_n without_o election_n may_v give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n but_o further_a here_o you_o say_v election_n give_v the_o essential_o i_o beseech_v you_o what_o shall_v we_o do_v then_o with_o all_o those_o scripture_n where_o ordination_n be_v hold_v out_o so_o full_o shall_v we_o omit_v they_o if_o they_o contain_v but_o a_o adjunct_n no_o i_o be_o sure_a this_o gracious_a saint_n will_v not_o do_v so_o his_o heart_n be_v so_o awe_v with_o high_a thought_n of_o god_n and_o his_o word_n that_o he_o dare_v not_o omit_v such_o a_o divine_a institution_n as_o those_o scripture_n hold_v out_o be_v then_o those_o six_o or_o seven_o scripture_n allege_v for_o ordination_n as_o necessary_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v as_o those_o three_o which_o be_v bring_v for_o election_n if_o not_o i_o pray_v give_v a_o reason_n why_o some_o scripture_n shall_v be_v less_o set_v by_o than_o other_o in_o this_o nature_n divine_a authority_n we_o acknowledge_v in_o both_o but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o this_o reverend_a man_n thought_n for_o we_o see_v he_o prove_v church-discipline_n to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o imposition_n of_o hand_n then_o if_o these_o scripture_n be_v equal_o as_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o minister_n that_o none_o must_v dare_v to_o omit_v they_o we_o do_v but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o say_v that_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n etc._n etc._n in_o constitute_v church_n those_o who_o omit_v ordination_n go_v cross_n to_o those_o many_o text_n of_o scripture_n they_o follow_v not_o the_o pattern_n most_o some_o i_o know_v make_v little_a of_o election_n but_o i_o will_v give_v it_o the_o most_o and_o so_o sin_n against_o the_o second_o commandment_n as_o do_v they_o who_o go_v cross_v to_o the_o text_n for_o election_n and_o if_o election_n in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v serve_v without_o a_o formal_a ordination_n in_o the_o like_a case_n may_v ordination_n be_v without_o election_n and_o so_o we_o be_v even_o further_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o argument_n they_o be_v relate_v suppose_v i_o shall_v say_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n give_v a_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n to_o the_o officer_n for_o so_o we_o consider_v the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n to_o be_v a_o totum_fw-la arise_v out_o of_o election_n and_o ordination_n as_o doctor_n ames_n it_o may_v be_v you_o will_v say_v relata_fw-la quà _fw-la sic_fw-la do_v not_o give_v a_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n but_o the_o whole_a here_o than_o will_v be_v our_o trouble_n whether_o we_o must_v bring_v scripture_n to_o logic_n or_o carry_v our_o logic_n to_o scripture_n why_o then_o do_v not_o minister_n act_v official_o upon_o bare_a election_n as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o it_o be_v answer_v their_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n as_o he_o be_v their_o minister_n but_o ordination_n give_v the_o essence_n as_o he_o be_v a_o minister_n 151._o mr._n hudson_n have_v speak_v close_o to_o this_o vind._n chur._n cathol_n visâ—â—_n p._n 138._o ad_fw-la 151._o for_o ordination_n do_v invest_v a_o minister_n with_o power_n to_o act_v beyond_o those_o who_o have_v call_v he_o give_v he_o a_o habitual_a power_n in_o actu_fw-la primo_fw-la to_o exercise_n and_o perform_v the_o act_n belong_v to_o his_o office_n elsewhere_o upon_o a_o call_n i_o know_v indeed_o our_o new_a england_n divine_v many_o i_o say_v not_o all_o as_o well_o as_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v of_o another_o opinion_n that_o a_o man_n be_v a_o officer_n only_o to_o his_o own_o particular_a congregation_n relatorum_fw-la mutuum_fw-la est_fw-la iter_fw-la but_o suppose_v i_o shall_v say_v a_o minister_n bear_v a_o habitual_a relation_n to_o the_o whole_a church-catholick_n visible_a which_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n do_v now_o i_o think_v strong_o prove_v for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v never_o swallow_v that_o notion_n that_o a_o pastor_n preach_v only_o as_o a_o pastor_n to_o those_o who_o elect_v he_o and_o to_o other_o church_n as_o a_o gift_a brother_n i_o dare_v bold_o affirm_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o the_o pure_a age_n next_o they_o this_o notion_n be_v never_o hear_v as_o for_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o catholic_n visible_a church_n i_o have_v not_o so_o much_o busy_v my_o head_n about_o it_o till_o of_o late_a &_o in_o my_o weak_a judgement_n i_o think_v there_o be_v so_o much_o say_v for_o it_o by_o mr._n hudson_n especial_o and_o other_o that_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o easy_o be_v answer_v that_o which_o make_v i_o lean_a to_o this_o opinion_n be_v first_n the_o light_n which_o his_o scripture_n and_o argument_n bring_v along_o with_o they_o 2_o i_o do_v not_o see_v by_o this_o notion_n that_o the_o people_n be_v at_o all_o defraud_a of_o what_o be_v proper_o they_o they_o may_v elect_v officer_n they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o bring_v in_o testimony_n to_o exclude_v unworthy_a communicant_n yea_o or_o may_v object_v against_o any_o who_o shall_v be_v admit_v church-member_n if_o church_n be_v in_o their_o first_o constitute_v if_o they_o know_v good_a reason_n why_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v neither_o be_v they_o debar_v from_o consent_v with_o their_o officer_n in_o excommunication_n i_o say_v i_o do_v not_o see_v but_o these_o privilege_n may_v consist_v with_o this_o notion_n 3._o impression_n mr._n huds_n vind_z 160._o 161._o let_v particular_a church_n walk_v as_o they_o shall_v regular_o and_o they_o have_v as_o much_o liberty_n as_o they_o can_v desire_v if_o they_o walk_v irregular_o see_v mr._n cotton_v key_n 53.54_o the_o second_o impression_n i_o see_v this_o notion_n do_v not_o cross_v that_o position_n which_o i_o have_v hold_v out_o viz._n that_o a_o particular_a church_n organise_v and_o walk_v regular_o may_v execute_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n within_o itself_o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o this_o case_n be_v at_o all_o hinder_v for_o such_o a_o church_n to_o walk_v irregular_o and_o to_o claim_v exemption_n from_o all_o other_o church-power_n let_v those_o that_o will_v be_v member_n of_o such_o church_n i_o desire_v not_o to_o be_v so_o but_o in_o such_o church_n where_o there_o may_v be_v mean_n to_o help_v a_o wicked_a heart_n 4._o in_o this_o notion_n i_o see_v a_o way_n how_o congregation_n that_o have_v no_o minister_n may_v have_v minister_n ordain_v successive_o by_o officer_n which_o i_o be_o sure_o be_v the_o old_a way_n yea_o and_o officer_n may_v be_v judge_v per_fw-la pares_fw-la and_o excommunicate_v i_o see_v it_o will_v bring_v in_o much_o order_n into_o church_n 5._o the_o practice_n i_o observe_v in_o new_a england_n that_o do_v imply_v such_o a_o notion_n as_o this_o do_v lead_v i_o much_o to_o it_o 1._o as_o that_o member_n of_o one_o church_n do_v so_o frequent_o partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n both_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o baptism_n in_o other_o church_n one_o pastor_n it_o may_v be_v may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o the_o member_n of_o five_o or_o six_o church_n at_o one_o time_n i_o know_v it_o be_v often_o say_v that_o a_o mayor_n of_o one_o corporation_n may_v administer_v justice_n to_o the_o member_n of_o another_o corporation_n if_o they_o be_v under_o his_o jurisdiction_n but_o he_o
adversary_n that_o trouble_v our_o reformation_n i_o think_v to_o have_v take_v occasion_n here_o to_o clear_v myself_o from_o what_o mr._n edward_n have_v write_v concern_v i_o but_o the_o man_n be_v dead_a i_o rather_o let_v it_o alone_o for_o sin_n i_o thank_v god_n he_o have_v charge_v i_o with_o none_o i_o know_v if_o ever_o the_o lord_n bring_v such_o a_o unworthy_a wretch_n as_o i_o be_o to_o heaven_n i_o shall_v not_o bear_v mr._n edward_n a_o grudge_n for_o what_o unkindness_n he_o have_v offer_v to_o i_o here_o but_o whereas_o mr._n edward_n have_v brand_v i_o for_o a_o independent_a some_o of_o miserable_a colchester_n have_v tell_v i_o that_o i_o have_v alter_v my_o principle_n but_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o the_o one_o shall_v charge_v i_o to_o be_v a_o independent_a nor_o the_o other_o for_o depart_v from_o my_o principle_n for_o i_o never_o declare_v any_o thing_n in_o public_a but_o only_o once_o which_o be_v concern_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n for_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n never_o trouble_v i_o but_o how_o to_o have_v the_o people_n reform_v and_o scandalous_a person_n debar_v from_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o person_n bring_v into_o a_o posture_n fit_a for_o discipline_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o independency_n once_o also_o i_o express_v this_o that_o i_o conceive_v a_o church_n organise_v and_o walk_v regular_o may_v execute_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n within_o itself_o i_o never_o express_v any_o thing_n more_o there_o concern_v church-work_n but_o do_v labour_n to_o keep_v alive_a the_o old_a truth_n which_o i_o find_v my_o heart_n have_v more_o need_n of_o then_o to_o preach_v about_o church-government_n in_o such_o a_o town_n as_o that_o be_v but_o if_o you_o say_v though_o i_o do_v not_o express_v it_o open_o yet_o i_o be_v a_o independent_a in_o my_o judgement_n but_o how_o can_v man_n charge_v i_o with_o that_o whiâ—c_a neither_o in_o public_a nor_o private_a they_o ever_o hear_v i_o express_v but_o then_o to_o deal_v plain_o i_o shall_v set_v down_o what_o manner_n of_o independent_a than_o i_o be_v and_o then_o you_o shall_v see_v how_o much_o i_o be_o alter_v in_o these_o point_v i_o do_v join_v with_o the_o congregational-man_n first_o i_o think_v none_o but_o visible_a saint_n to_o be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o church_n second_o church_n so_o the_o belgic_a church_n i_o think_v a_o promise_n from_o the_o people_n to_o subject_v themselves_o to_o church-discipline_n be_v of_o very_o great_a concernment_n to_o carry_v on_o discipline_n with_o strength_n and_o comfort_n as_o likewise_o to_o subject_v themselves_o to_o all_o other_o ordinance_n as_o become_v christian_n three_o though_o i_o do_v own_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o true_a church_n yet_o because_o for_o want_v of_o catechise_v and_o discipline_n they_o be_v overgrow_v with_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n i_o do_v desire_v the_o gross_o ignorant_a and_o profane_a to_o stay_v a_o while_n before_o i_o give_v it_o heir_n child_n the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n that_o have_v get_v knowledge_n and_o conversation_n free_v from_o scandal_n the_o ordinance_n may_v be_v administer_v with_o more_o comfort_n four_o i_o think_v that_o if_o church_n be_v now_o constitute_v the_o officer_n shall_v not_o receive_v any_o into_o church-fellowship_n against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n give_v sufficient_a proof_n against_o they_o five_o i_o think_v the_o officer_n ought_v not_o excommunicate_v any_o person_n if_o the_o people_n do_v not_o consent_v to_o they_o not_o that_o a_o church_n must_v be_v obstruct_v if_o two_o or_o three_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o be_v cross_a six_o i_o think_v a_o particular_a church_n organise_v to_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o according_a as_o mr._n cotton_n hold_v it_o out_o but_o this_o i_o do_v not_o express_v public_o seven_o i_o do_v somewhat_o question_n whether_o the_o officer_n of_o one_o church_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v in_o another_o church_n but_o in_o these_o point_v i_o be_v no_o independent_a first_o i_o can_v not_o be_v clear_a that_o the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n second_o neither_o that_o the_o fraternity_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v formal_o three_o that_o a_o minister_n shall_v preach_v only_o as_o a_o gift_a broth_n ere_fw-we out_o of_o his_o own_o place_n four_o i_o can_v not_o consent_v to_o have_v the_o godly_a people_n take_v away_o from_o a_o godly_a presbyterian_a into_o a_o independent_a church_n five_o i_o can_v not_o approve_v that_o independent_a church_n shall_v refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o presbyterial_a church_n though_o there_o be_v good_a store_n of_o visible_a saint_n for_o want_v of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n by_o this_o time_n i_o hope_v i_o shall_v be_v no_o rank_n independent_a but_o where_o be_v then_o my_o thang_n of_o my_o principle_n let_v these_o man_n prove_v it_o for_o i_o be_o the_o same_o still_o only_o since_o i_o read_v mr._n hudson_n i_o do_v somewhat_o waver_v about_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n and_o this_o be_v all_o my_o change_n that_o my_o mind_n may_v be_v clear_v against_o who_o i_o write_v i_o observe_v separatist_n be_v not_o all_o of_o a_o size_n some_o separate_a from_o minister_n &_o church_n and_o get_v into_o their_o private_a house_n own_o no_o officer_n but_o please_v themselves_o with_o their_o own_o gift_n and_o opinion_n these_o be_v the_o person_n who_o i_o chief_o aim_v at_o as_o such_o that_o so_o trouble_v we_o that_o no_o church-discipline_n can_v hold_v so_o long_o as_o they_o stand_v other_o live_v in_o place_n where_o there_o be_v visible_a and_o real_a saint_n the_o ministry_n godly_a and_o able_a yea_o it_o may_v be_v call_v to_o the_o place_n by_o these_o person_n but_o because_o they_o can_v have_v all_o they_o will_v pick_v a_o quarrel_n with_o the_o ordination_n of_o their_o minister_n etc._n etc._n they_o choose_v some_o other_o minister_n in_o some_o other_o town_n and_o so_o depart_v from_o the_o prebyterial_a to_o a_o congregational_a church_n continue_v still_o in_o the_o same_o parish_n it_o be_v well_o these_o man_n hold_v up_o ordinance_n and_o officer_n yet_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o practice_n the_o ensue_a discourse_n will_v try_v i_o be_o sure_a peace_n and_o unity_n among_o church_n can_v possible_o stand_v with_o this_o practice_n it_o be_v very_o sad_a that_o we_o shall_v not_o yield_v a_o little_a where_o we_o may_v nay_o where_o we_o ought_v for_o peace_n with_o our_o brethren_n who_o we_o can_v but_o judge_v holy_a and_o sincere_a if_o there_o shall_v sometime_o fall_v out_o a_o quotation_n somewhat_o sharp_a yet_o i_o pray_v do_v not_o think_v that_o i_o apply_v it_o to_o all_o separatist_n but_o to_o some_o among_o they_o who_o may_v deserve_v it_o what_o success_n my_o poor_a endeavour_n shall_v find_v i_o know_v not_o i_o look_v for_o little_a good_a they_o shall_v do_v among_o the_o separatist_n who_o with_o a_o imperious_a scorn_n neglect_v to_o listen_v to_o or_o read_v any_o thing_n which_o tend_v to_o overthrow_v their_o practice_n and_o though_o they_o be_v so_o confute_v as_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o answer_v a_o word_n yet_o they_o scorn_v to_o acknowledge_v their_o error_n and_o return_v to_o the_o congregation_n from_o which_o they_o have_v separate_v which_o to_o i_o be_v a_o clear_a demonstration_n that_o however_o these_o man_n pretend_v conscience_n yet_o it_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n for_o be_v these_o man_n lead_v by_o a_o pure_a conscience_n consider_v how_o they_o separate_v from_o holy_a man_n such_o also_o as_o have_v be_v instrument_n of_o their_o soul_n good_a consider_v also_o how_o they_o weaken_v their_o hand_n grieve_v their_o spirit_n they_o will_v hear_v read_v pray_v take_v any_o course_n that_o they_o may_v be_v sure_a to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o truth_n 13.36_o act._n 13.36_o but_o i_o leave_v the_o success_n to_o god_n my_o desire_n be_v to_o serve_v my_o generation_n and_o there_o i_o rest_n separation_n examine_v i_o will_v not_o trouble_v myself_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n upon_o the_o earth_n or_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n i_o think_v there_o be_v none_o that_o own_o the_o scripture_n who_o will_v deny_v the_o former_a though_o there_o be_v some_o who_o deny_v the_o latter_a unless_o i_o mean_v the_o congregationall_a church_n which_o they_o will_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v church_n but_o none_o else_o yet_o many_o of_o those_o who_o i_o write_v against_o do_v not_o own_v they_o for_o though_o they_o have_v opportunity_n and_o may_v join_v with_o such_o church_n yet_o they_o refuse_v to_o do_v so_o be_v unwilling_a i_o perceive_v to_o come_v under_o or_o
maintain_v any_o officer_n i_o wish_v there_o be_v not_o too_o strong_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o covetousness_n and_o ambition_n reign_v too_o much_o among_o this_o kind_n of_o separatist_n yet_o because_o the_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n will_v be_v of_o great_a consequence_n to_o the_o follow_a discourse_n as_o be_v the_o groundwork_n of_o it_o i_o will_v therefore_o produce_v one_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o and_o if_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o than_o it_o will_v necessary_o follow_v there_o be_v a_o true_a visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n which_o as_o i_o say_v i_o think_v no_o christian_a dare_v deny_v but_o what_o daâ—es_v not_o the_o vile_a heart_n of_o man_n think_v say_v or_o do_v if_o god_n give_v it_o up_o to_o its_o own_o blindness_n and_o wickedness_n master_n burrough_n make_v mention_n of_o schusselburgius_fw-la 236._o iren._n pag._n 236._o who_o collect_v the_o sect_n opinion_n and_o way_n of_o man_n soon_o after_o luther_n say_v there_o be_v not_o any_o one_o strange_a opinion_n among_o we_o now_o but_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o among_o they_o in_o terminis_fw-la only_a i_o remember_v not_o that_o one_o that_o have_v take_v some_o who_o though_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o scripture_n yet_o think_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n many_o be_v the_o error_n that_o be_v confute_v condemn_v in_o the_o first_o synod_n in_o new_a england_n which_o error_n i_o find_v here_o in_o england_n but_o there_o be_v not_o this_o error_n among_o they_o all_o to_o my_o remembrance_n it_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v say_v of_o africa_n that_o every_o year_n it_o produce_v a_o new_a monster_n but_o now_o it_o must_v be_v say_v of_o england_n that_o it_o have_v produce_v such_o a_o spiritual_a monster_n as_o no_o nation_n that_o own_v the_o scripture_n ever_o do_v before_o the_o lord_n save_o we_o from_o our_o own_o heart_n but_o i_o will_v now_o prove_v the_o thesis_n as_o i_o say_v before_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n where_o there_o be_v many_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o true_a minister_n consent_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n but_o in_o england_n there_o be_v many_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o true_a minister_n consent_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n ergo_fw-la in_o england_n there_o be_v many_o true_a visible_a church_n the_o major_n be_v so_o plain_a that_o none_o who_o know_v what_o a_o visible_a church_n be_v and_o what_o the_o church_n in_o the_o gospel_n be_v but_o must_v needs_o yield_v it_o here_o be_v the_o essential_a cause_n of_o a_o church_n ergo_fw-la here_o be_v a_o church_n first_o here_o be_v the_o material_a cause_n visible_a saint_n the_o minister_n also_o as_o visible_a saint_n help_v make_v up_o the_o matter_n but_o as_o they_o be_v minister_n they_o make_v the_o church_n organical_a which_o be_v more_o 2_o here_o be_v the_o formal_a cause_n their_o consent_n to_o worship_n god_n etc._n etc._n he_o that_o yield_v the_o essential_a cause_n and_o yet_o deny_v the_o effect_n have_v lose_v his_o reason_n a_o church_n be_v any_o company_n of_o saint_n in_o body_n to_o set_v up_o what_o ordinance_n of_o god_n they_o know_v this_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o here_o god_n dwell_v 8.1_o in_o hos_n 8.1_o say_v mr._n burrough_n he_o speak_v of_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o homogeneal_a body_n but_o i_o go_v further_o the_o separatist_n indeed_o will_v catch_v hold_n of_o his_o definition_n as_o cyprian_n say_v the_o schismatic_n in_o his_o time_n do_v of_o that_o text_n in_o matth._n 18.20_o to_o which_o eh_n answer_v very_o well_o de_fw-fr unita_fw-la eccles_n and_o hence_o they_o will_v conclude_v we_o be_v saint_n in_o body_n ergo_fw-la we_o be_v true_a church_n but_o i_o pray_v be_v there_o not_o visible_a saint_n also_o in_o the_o church_n from_o which_o you_o irregular_o as_o i_o shall_v prove_v after_o do_v separate_v be_v they_o not_o as_o good_a as_o yourselves_o do_v not_o you_o attain_v to_o that_o visibility_n of_o saint-ship_n which_o you_o have_v while_o you_o be_v in_o those_o church_n do_v you_o set_v up_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n so_o far_o as_o you_o know_v or_o may_v know_v if_o error_n do_v not_o hinder_v as_o they_o do_v from_o who_o you_o have_v separate_v nay_o you_o can_v do_v it_o for_o you_o neither_o have_v man_n fit_a for_o office_n nor_o will_v you_o endure_v to_o come_v under_o officer_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o look_v into_o the_o nine_o verse_n of_o the_o same_o chapter_n tertul._n faciunt_fw-la fave_n vespae_fw-la faciunt_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la marciovitae_n tertul._n you_o shall_v find_v mr._n burrough_n say_v that_o those_o who_o love_n to_o live_v without_o ordinance_n from_o under_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n be_v those_o that_o love_n to_o live_v in_o the_o wilderness_n his_o word_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o many_o of_o these_o separatist_n who_o call_v for_o separation_n from_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o to_o those_o who_o be_v in_o the_o world_n but_o to_o my_o argument_n all_o the_o quarrel_n will_v be_v about_o the_o minister_n 102._o the_o presbyterian_o speak_v the_o same_o language_n if_o the_o word_n in_o body_n please_v you_o the_o correlatum_fw-la of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v a_o people_n embody_v in_o a_o church_n or_o a_o spiritual_a corporation_n gillesp_n aar_n rod._n 191._o iren._n p._n 102._o and_o the_o consent_v together_o etc._n etc._n as_o for_o mr._n burrough_n phrase_n there_o be_v in_o body_n this_o they_o like_v well_o but_o so_o be_v not_o those_o visible_a saint_n i_o mention_v say_v they_o but_o to_o take_v away_o that_o cavil_v and_o so_o to_o return_v to_o the_o minister_n you_o may_v know_v what_o mr._n b._n mean_n by_o be_v in_o body_n by_o show_v what_o make_v a_o church_n covenant_n say_v he_o i_o know_v nothing_o more_o be_v require_v but_o to_o manifest_v their_o assent_n to_o join_v with_o that_o body_n to_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o as_o they_o know_v and_o do_v not_o those_o visible_a saint_n actual_o manifest_v their_o assent_n by_o their_o continual_a attendance_n upon_o their_o officer_n in_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o maintain_v their_o officer_n to_o that_o intent_n that_o they_o may_v have_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n set_v up_o among_o they_o shall_v the_o want_n of_o a_o adjunct_n null_n the_o church_n when_o as_o they_o do_v the_o very_a thing_n which_o they_o shall_v express_v put_v case_n you_o express_v your_o assent_n and_o do_v not_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o express_v your_o assent_n unto_o be_v you_o therefore_o a_o church_n because_o of_o your_o express_v your_o assent_n what_o then_o be_v those_o who_o do_v the_o thing_n though_o they_o do_v not_o express_v their_o assent_n in_o word_n but_o in_o act_n this_o be_v good_a and_o sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o essence_n though_o both_o expression_n and_o do_v be_v better_a but_o of_o this_o more_o after_o but_o the_o minister_n be_v those_o who_o spoil_v all_o there_o be_v those_o who_o can_v deny_v there_o be_v ordinance_n but_o there_o be_v none_o to_o administer_v they_o and_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n which_o one_o of_o the_o chief_a member_n of_o a_o church_n in_o london_n who_o do_v use_v to_o prophesy_v as_o they_o call_v it_o in_o the_o absence_n or_o weariness_n of_o the_o pastor_n give_v to_o a_o honest_a man_n who_o be_v trouble_v because_o he_o fall_v off_o from_o the_o church_n and_o exercise_v his_o gift_n and_o turn_v seeker_n i_o name_v not_o the_o man_n nor_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v too_o true_a now_o suppose_v i_o can_v not_o prove_v the_o minister_n to_o be_v true_a minister_n yet_o those_o visible_a saint_n which_o i_o name_v before_o and_o those_o who_o you_o call_v presbyterian_o do_v meet_v together_o confer_v pray_v and_o fast_o together_o watch_v one_o over_o another_o and_o so_o if_o you_o will_v consider_v they_o as_o homogeneal_a body_n they_o be_v as_o good_a church_n as_o those_o separatist_n which_o have_v no_o officer_n therefore_o still_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n beside_o the_o separatist_n and_o so_o my_o argument_n stand_v firm_a but_o i_o will_v prove_v there_o be_v many_o true_a minister_n even_o among_o those_o who_o you_o call_v presbyterial_a minister_n thus_o where_o there_o be_v man_n sufficient_o qualify_v by_o god_n orderly_o at_o least_o for_o substance_n call_v to_o the_o ministry_n and_o do_v that_o work_n which_o christ_n appoint_v his_o minister_n to_o do_v there_o be_v true_a gospel-minister_n but_o in_o many_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o be_v such_o man_n ergo_fw-la in_o many_o of_o the_o church_n of_o
convince_v of_o the_o thing_n the_o man_n after_o long_o labour_v with_o he_o but_o to_o no_o purpose_n for_o he_o be_v tenacious_a in_o his_o own_o opinion_n and_o as_o hieron_n say_v of_o jovinianus_n non_fw-la est_fw-la contentus_fw-la nostro_fw-la i._n e._n humano_fw-la more_fw-mi loqui_fw-la altius_fw-la quiddam_fw-la aggreditur_fw-la high_a fly_v in_o his_o notion_n the_o elder_n see_v that_o obstinacy_n be_v join_v to_o his_o error_n they_o conclude_v that_o either_o they_o must_v cast_v that_o ordinance_n out_o of_o the_o church_n or_o else_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o church_n of_o rowley_n do_v cast_v he_o out_o i_o know_v they_o have_v be_v censure_v for_o this_o act_n by_o some_o here_o but_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n they_o will_v give_v as_o comfortable_a a_o account_n for_o maintain_v of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n as_o they_o shall_v do_v who_o through_o their_o maxim_n of_o error_n in_o non-fundamentalls_a make_v way_n to_o loose_v all_o the_o ordinance_n and_o then_o where_o be_v the_o church_n from_o this_o example_n of_o paul_n and_o silas_n we_o may_v argue_v if_o two_o may_v sing_v hymn_n or_o psalm_n together_o then_o four_o may_v so_o forty_o the_o number_n hinder_v not_o for_o the_o voice_n here_o of_o many_o be_v no_o hindrance_n to_o the_o ordinance_n but_o rather_o they_o help_v to_o stir_v up_o the_o affection_n one_o of_o another_o as_o in_o those_o who_o be_v fill_v with_o wine_n two_o sing_v together_o or_o four_o do_v not_o hinder_v their_o conceit_a mirth_n so_o christ_n and_o his_o eleven_o apostle_n sing_v together_o whether_o will_v these_o man_n allow_v one_o christian_n to_o sing_v a_o psalm_n alone_o by_o himself_o methinks_v the_o text_n and_o example_n mention_v together_o with_o jam._n 5.13_o be_v any_o man_n merry_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d let_v he_o sing_v psalm_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o no_o rational_a man_n can_v deny_v it_o but_o if_o one_o may_v than_o the_o church_n may_v there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o worship_n which_o any_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o perform_v but_o the_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o perform_v but_o on_o the_o contrary_a it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o what_o worship_n the_o church_n do_v perform_v a_o member_n of_o church_n can_v or_o may_v for_o instance_n for_o the_o first_o part_n meditation_n need_v no_o organ_n of_o the_o body_n and_o therefore_o i_o leave_v that_o but_o do_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n pray_v so_o do_v the_o whole_a church_n do_v he_o read_v the_o scripture_n so_o they_o be_v read_v in_o the_o church_n do_v he_o fast_o and_o pray_v so_o do_v the_o church_n do_v he_o sing_v a_o psalm_n so_o do_v the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v not_o true_a on_o the_o contrary_a as_o appear_v in_o the_o sacrament_n preach_v discipline_n etc._n etc._n neither_o be_v that_o place_n revel_v 15.2_o 3._o of_o small_a force_n to_o prove_v sing_v to_o be_v a_o ordinance_n 525._o exposit_n hos_fw-la 2.15_o p._n 525._o those_o who_o overcome_v the_o beast_n sing_v the_o song_n of_o moses_n this_o say_v mr._n burrough_n i_o note_v because_o hereby_o we_o may_v see_v that_o sing_n be_v a_o ordinance_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n not_o only_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o law_n but_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n etc._n etc._n he_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o text_n before_o 4_o the_o four_o ground_n that_o move_v i_o be_v this_o i_o know_v not_o how_o it_o will_v take_v with_o other_o but_o with_o i_o it_o be_v something_o psal_n 92._o the_o title_n say_v it_o be_v a_o psalm_n or_o song_n for_o the_o day_n of_o sabbath_n it_o be_v clear_a that_o one_o way_n of_o sanctification_n of_o the_o sabbath_n be_v by_o sing_v of_o psalm_n two_o of_o the_o word_n that_o paul_n use_v in_o ephes_n 5.19_o be_v in_o this_o title_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d psalm_n spiritual_a song_n will_v any_o say_v this_o psalm_n be_v only_o for_o those_o time_n but_o now_o be_v abolish_v with_o the_o jewish_a sabbath_n what_o be_v that_o admirable_a promise_n in_o the_o thirteen_o and_o fourteen_o verse_n vanish_v and_o of_o no_o use_n to_o we_o shall_v not_o christian_n apply_v it_o and_o plead_v it_o now_o when_o as_o they_o be_v plant_v in_o god_n house_n and_o attend_v on_o he_o on_o our_o christian_a sabbath_n have_v not_o we_o as_o much_o need_n of_o the_o promise_n as_o they_o this_o with_o i_o have_v much_o prevail_v if_o we_o own_o a_o christian_a sabbath_n sing_v of_o psalm_n may_v well_o be_v own_v also_o for_o a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n now_o as_o well_o as_o then_o 5_o the_o five_o be_v the_o presence_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n with_o his_o people_n in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o ordinance_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o what_o i_o say_v let_v thousand_o of_o god_n people_n speak_v if_o they_o have_v not_o find_v god_n in_o the_o ordinance_n i_o will_v not_o go_v so_o far_o as_o augustin_n but_o our_o father_n 33._o confess_v l._n 9_o c._n 6._o &_o l._n 10._o c._n 33._o who_o use_v it_o in_o their_o family_n more_o than_o some_o of_o we_o do_v i_o be_o sure_a they_o find_v god_n and_o so_o have_v many_o now_o in_o these_o day_n those_o who_o have_v not_o find_v god_n in_o it_o they_o may_v cavil_v indeed_o but_o let_v they_o be_v rather_o humble_v that_o god_n have_v not_o give_v they_o what_o other_o have_v taste_v those_o who_o do_v frequent_o find_v god_n in_o this_o ordinance_n they_o will_v not_o so_o slight_o and_o scornful_o speak_v of_o it_o as_o that_o sectary_n do_v to_o i_o but_o if_o god_n have_v usual_o manifest_v his_o presence_n with_o his_o church_n under_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o ordinance_n this_o with_o the_o former_a scripture_n allege_v prevail_v with_o i_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v a_o gospel_n ordinance_n still_o 6_o the_o last_o ground_n that_o move_v i_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n antiquity_n after_o scripture_n be_v as_o a_o cypher_n after_o a_o figure_n and_o do_v increase_v the_o number_n that_o sing_v be_v frequent_a among_o those_o christian_n i_o find_v it_o record_v 1_o eusebius_n report_v out_o of_o philo_n the_o life_n manner_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o religious_a man_n in_o egypt_n mark_v be_v send_v into_o egypt_n 17_o eccles_n hist_o lib._n 2._o c._n 17_o as_o say_v the_o story_n to_o preach_v christ_n he_o there_o convert_v many_o who_o conversation_n as_o i_o say_v philo_n judaeus_n a_o very_a learned_a man_n at_o that_o time_n set_v forth_o in_o commendation_n of_o the_o christian_n ecclesiast_fw-la hierom_n also_o relate_v this_o out_o of_o philo_n orationi_fw-la vacatur_fw-la &_o psalmis_fw-la catal._n script_n ecclesiast_fw-la among_o other_o thing_n this_o he_o report_v they_o contemplate_v not_o only_o divine_a thing_n but_o they_o make_v grave_a canticle_n and_o hymn_n unto_o god_n in_o a_o more_o sacred_a rhyme_n of_o every_o kind_n of_o meet_a and_o verse_n this_o philo_n a_o hebrew_n flourish_v about_o the_o year_n forty_o be_v send_v of_o a_o embassage_n to_o caius_n caligula_n about_o that_o time_n so_o than_o this_o be_v their_o practice_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n philo_n must_v needs_o be_v bear_v and_o well_o grow_v in_o christ_n time_n 2_o for_o tertullian_n 1580._o i_o in_o paris_n print_n anno_fw-la 1580._o there_o be_v two_o testimony_n bring_v out_o of_o he_o for_o sing_v of_o psalm_n the_o one_o be_v out_o of_o apol._n c._n 2._o the_o letter_n which_o plinius_n secundus_fw-la write_v to_o trajan_n in_o behalf_n of_o the_o church_n where_o he_o mention_n the_o practice_n the_o other_o be_v out_o of_o cap._n 39_o apol._n show_v the_o discipline_n of_o the_o christian_n and_o there_o it_o be_v mention_v but_o i_o find_v two_o other_o place_n in_o he_o beside_o these_o as_o clear_a as_o those_o one_o be_v l._n 2._o ad_fw-la vxorem_fw-la have_v speak_v strong_o against_o christian_n marry_v with_o infidel_n he_o show_v the_o contrary_a how_o good_a it_o be_v for_o christian_n to_o marry_v with_o christian_n and_o among_o other_o thing_n this_o he_o mention_n sonant_fw-la inter_fw-la dvos_fw-la psalmi_n &_o hymni_fw-la &_o mutuò_fw-la provocant_fw-la quis_fw-la melius_fw-la deo_fw-la sva_fw-la canet_fw-la but_o most_o clear_a be_v that_o place_n cap._n 3._o de_fw-fr animâ_fw-la as_o for_o his_o opinion_n de_fw-fr effigy_n animae_fw-la i_o leave_v that_o but_o there_o he_o make_v mention_n of_o a_o sister_n of_o their_o church_n who_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o revelation_n which_o it_o seem_v she_o have_v in_o the_o church_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n as_o the_o scripture_n be_v read_v or_o psalm_n be_v sing_v he_o reckon_v up_o other_o ordinance_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n then_o matter_n for_o vision_n be_v administer_v etc._n etc._n now_o this_o
with_o this_o logical_a affection_n of_o a_o adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o with_o the_o affection_n of_o a_o formal_a cause_n i_o shall_v put_v most_o upon_o that_o where_o the_o scripture_n be_v plain_a and_o full_a which_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o any_o man_n esteem_n that_o observe_v those_o text_n with_o a_o impartial_a eye_n be_v ordination_n whether_o ordination_n according_a to_o scripture-light_n be_v not_o as_o essential_a to_o a_o minister_n as_o election_n vis_fw-la vind._n chu_o cath._n vis_fw-la let_v any_o one_o judge_n i_o think_v mr._n hudson_n speak_v christianly_o i_o prefer_v one_o divine_a testimony_n before_o ten_o argument_n and_o one_o good_a argument_n before_o ten_o humane_a testimony_n but_o thus_o by_o clothing_n these_o scripture_n with_o these_o logical_a affection_n we_o have_v cry_v up_o election_n and_o cry_v down_o ordination_n sectary_n take_v advantage_n of_o this_o and_o hence_o come_v in_o our_o disorder_n ordination_n be_v a_o divine_a institution_n ars_fw-la est_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la and_o logic_n be_v a_o general_a art_n so_o that_o we_o must_v give_v some_o logical_a term_n to_o election_n and_o ordination_n i_o deny_v not_o this_o only_o it_o be_v good_a to_o bring_v art_n to_o scripture_n and_o not_o carry_v scripture_n to_o art_n if_o you_o ask_v what_o logical_a argument_n be_v there_o between_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o election_n and_o ordination_n praec_fw-la i_o say_v before_o these_o two_o constitute_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n mutatâ_fw-la affectione_n mutatur_fw-la argumentum_fw-la survey_v par_fw-fr 2._o pag._n 68_o in_o 4_o praec_fw-la what_o if_o i_o shall_v answer_v the_o call_n be_v totum_fw-la integrale_fw-la election_n and_o ordination_n be_v membra_fw-la constitute_v this_o totum_fw-la thus_o i_o make_v election_n to_o be_v essential_a and_o so_o i_o speak_v the_o high_a of_o election_n though_o i_o must_v profess_v upon_o serious_a thought_n i_o rather_o question_v whether_o election_n be_v essential_a than_o i_o do_v ordination_n reverend_a mr._n hooker_n indeed_o say_v ordination_n be_v but_o the_o approbation_n of_o a_o person_n constitute_v in_o his_o office_n but_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v ordination_n do_v most_o respect_n that_o inward_a or_o arcanam_fw-la vocationem_fw-la as_o zanchy_a call_v it_o which_o god_n give_v a_o man_n into_o the_o ministry_n fit_v and_o qualify_a of_o a_o man_n first_o for_o the_o work_n which_o none_o else_o can_v do_v and_o give_v he_o a_o earnest_a desire_n to_o the_o work_n god_n do_v there_o as_o it_o be_v separate_v he_o inward_o and_o now_o he_o do_v it_o outward_o in_o ordination_n the_o particular_a congregation_n do_v but_o give_v he_o a_o call_v by_o their_o election_n and_o subjection_n to_o he_o to_o exercise_v this_o power_n among_o they_o pro_fw-la hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la that_o which_o move_v i_o to_o think_v so_o be_v first_o church_n may_v not_o choose_v who_o they_o listen_v as_o do_v our_o sectary_n but_o person_n qualify_v by_o god_n second_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a and_o clear_a for_o ordination_n over_o it_o be_v for_o election_n though_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o election_n may_v well_o be_v prove_v three_o because_o a_o man_n may_v in_o some_o case_n be_v ordain_v to_o the_o ministry_n when_o no_o election_n of_o the_o people_n do_v precede_v as_o i_o shall_v give_v instance_n afterward_o 2._o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n do_v give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n then_o may_v a_o man_n elect_v execute_v all_o official_a power_n without_o ordination_n and_o that_o common_o but_o no_o man_n may_v execute_v official_a power_n and_o that_o common_o without_o ordination_n ergo_fw-la election_n do_v not_o give_v the_o essentials_n by_o the_o essential_o here_o he_o mean_v the_o formal_a cause_n for_o as_o for_o the_o material_a cause_n they_o can_v give_v that_o and_o we_o have_v but_o two_o cause_n that_o do_v dare_v essentiam_fw-la though_o all_o four_o do_v dare_v esse_fw-la the_o consequence_n be_v clear_a that_o they_o may_v execute_v etc._n etc._n without_o ordination_n for_o forma_fw-la that_fw-mi operari_fw-la but_o election_n give_v the_o form_n say_v these_o reverend_a man_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n effect_n do_v not_o depend_v upon_o adjunct_n for_o operation_n the_o form_n give_v that_o the_o minor_a that_o they_o must_v not_o do_v so_o first_o it_o be_v cross_v to_o scripture_n precedent_n if_o it_o be_v but_o a_o deacon_n 9_o survey_v part_n 3._o pag._n 9_o say_v mr._n hooker_n yet_o we_o see_v he_o be_v ordain_v second_o it_o be_v cross_a to_o your_o own_o practice_n it_o be_v frequent_a in_o new_a england_n to_o have_v a_o man_n elect_v and_o preach_v half_a a_o year_n a_o whole_a year_n yea_o i_o know_v one_o elect_v and_o preach_v two_o year_n to_o his_o people_n and_o they_o maintain_v he_o all_o that_o while_n and_o yet_o all_o that_o time_n he_o never_o administer_v a_o sacrament_n to_o his_o people_n but_o he_o and_o they_o when_o they_o will_v partake_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n go_v ten_o mile_n to_o the_o church_n out_o of_o which_o they_o issue_v to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n but_o this_o be_v very_o hard_a and_o needless_a if_o he_o have_v the_o form_n give_v he_o in_o election_n 2._o that_o which_o do_v next_o invest_v a_o man_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o may_v perform_v official_a act_n and_o before_o which_o he_o can_v not_o do_v so_o that_o do_v give_v essence_n and_o consequent_o be_v not_o a_o mere_a adjunct_n but_o ordination_n do_v next_o invest_v a_o minister_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o may_v perfome_v official_a act_n which_o before_o he_o can_v not_o do_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v clear_a by_o the_o scripture_n example_n second_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o your_o own_o practice_n for_o those_o who_o for_o two_o year_n and_o more_o stand_v only_o by_o election_n but_o that_o while_o dispense_v no_o sacrament_n when_o they_o be_v ordain_v do_v present_o put_v forth_o all_o official_a act_n the_o major_a take_v all_o together_o i_o suppose_v will_v not_o be_v deny_v it_o do_v next_o invest_v a_o man_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o can_v perform_v official_a act_n and_o before_o he_o can_v not_o do_v it_o to_o say_v he_o have_v official_a power_n before_o give_v he_o by_o election_n but_o can_v not_o act_v it_o be_v strange_a frustra_fw-la est_fw-la illa_fw-la potentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n have_v such_o a_o person_n continue_v twice_o as_o long_o unordain_v he_o have_v not_o execute_v any_o official_a power_n nay_o his_o preach_v all_o that_o time_n be_v not_o esteem_v preach_v by_o way_n of_o office_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v say_v such_o preach_v only_o upon_o trial_n for_o i_o now_o speak_v of_o such_o as_o have_v be_v try_v before_o nay_o have_v be_v preacher_n in_o england_n long_o before_o they_o go_v over_o and_o such_o i_o be_o sure_a as_o the_o people_n will_v willing_o have_v they_o ordain_v within_o one_o month_n after_o they_o have_v choose_v they_o they_o be_v so_o well_o satisfy_v in_o the_o person_n who_o they_o have_v choose_v four_o it_o be_v something_o that_o solemnity_n the_o scripture_n express_v that_o be_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n prayer_n and_o fast_v and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n we_o read_v of_o no_o such_o solemnity_n in_o election_n though_o people_n ought_v to_o pray_v before_o they_o do_v choose_v so_o it_o be_v in_o new_a england_n this_o act_n be_v very_o solemn_a when_o notice_n be_v give_v of_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o officer_n to_o the_o several_a church_n as_o before_o any_o ordination_n all_o the_o church_n adjacent_a have_v notice_n give_v it_o run_v in_o that_o form_n there_o be_v a_o ordination_n to_o be_v this_o week_n at_o such_o a_o church_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o election_n of_o the_o person_n we_o know_v it_o long_o before_o who_o they_o have_v choose_v and_o though_o the_o people_n do_v by_o their_o suffrage_n declare_v their_o election_n in_o this_o day_n of_o humiliation_n yet_o they_o declare_v no_o more_o than_o the_o country_n know_v before_o and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o say_v he_o be_v not_o elect_v before_o now_o when_o first_o they_o choose_v he_o to_o go_v with_o they_o or_o come_v to_o they_o and_o there_o continue_v a_o year_n or_o two_o preach_v &_o they_o contribute_v to_o his_o maintenance_n the_o same_o i_o may_v say_v in_o regard_n of_o myself_o i_o have_v as_o full_a a_o election_n of_o my_o people_n at_o my_o first_o come_n as_o be_v declare_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v above_o two_o year_n before_o i_o can_v get_v my_o ordination_n in_o the_o place_n where_o i_o be_v elect_v through_o the_o trouble_n of_o the_o time_n but_o all_o that_o while_o i_o do_v not_o conceive_v myself_o invest_v with_o
must_v not_o go_v to_o they_o but_o similia_fw-la ad_fw-la pompam_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la pugnam_fw-la the_o analogy_n between_o a_o commonwealth_n and_o the_o church_n will_v not_o hold_v as_o i_o may_v touch_v afterward_o but_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a according_a to_o that_o practice_n that_o seven_o make_v a_o church_n they_o may_v admit_v five_o or_o six_o whole_a church_n and_o a_o pastor_n choose_v by_o none_o of_o they_o may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o they_o all_o at_o one_o time_n but_o do_v we_o find_v whole_a corporation_n go_v to_o the_o mayor_n of_o another_o corporation_n for_o justice_n mr._n philip_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n in_o water-town_n while_o mr._n wilson_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o boston_n be_v here_o in_o england_n go_v to_o boston_n and_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o that_o church_n i_o be_v not_o then_o in_o the_o country_n but_o i_o hear_v of_o it_o soon_o after_o when_o i_o go_v over_o with_o mr._n wilson_n i_o know_v no_o sin_n in_o that_o act_n i_o think_v to_o have_v give_v some_o instance_n how_o frequent_a this_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 196_o vind._n cath._n à _fw-la 192_o ad_fw-la 196_o for_o one_o minister_n to_o act_v official_o beyond_o the_o people_n who_o elect_v he_o but_o mr._n hudson_n a_o man_n far_o more_o able_a have_v set_v down_o those_o example_n which_o i_o will_v have_v give_v and_o many_o more_o to_o who_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n yea_o it_o be_v ordinary_a for_o the_o member_n of_o one_o church_n to_o dwell_v one_o or_o two_o year_n nay_o six_o or_o seven_o year_n in_o another_o town_n and_o to_o partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n there_o as_o frequent_o as_o any_o of_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n indeed_o of_o late_a the_o elder_n have_v not_o like_v this_o to_o have_v they_o live_v so_o remote_a from_o the_o inspection_n of_o their_o own_o officer_n and_o therefore_o have_v require_v such_o to_o join_v with_o the_o church_n where_o they_o dwell_v this_o be_v good_a and_o orderly_a the_o letter_n also_o of_o recommendation_n which_o the_o church_n make_v for_o the_o member_n when_o they_o come_v over_o hither_o require_v of_o the_o church_n here_o what_o communion_n counsel_n or_o comfort_n they_o shall_v need_v promise_v the_o performance_n of_o the_o like_a debt_n to_o other_o etc._n etc._n 2._o also_o i_o see_v if_o a_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o one_o church_n he_o stand_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o they_o all_o but_o if_o a_o man_n be_v disfranchise_v in_o one_o corporation_n another_o corporation_n may_v receive_v he_o and_o give_v he_o his_o freedom_n if_o they_o please_v this_o show_v there_o be_v something_o more_o in_o a_o church_n then_o in_o a_o commonwealth_n 3._o i_o see_v they_o preach_v frequent_o in_o other_o church_n but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v only_o as_o gift_a brethren_n this_o be_v so_o harsh_a to_o conceive_v i_o pray_v what_o act_n do_v the_o mayor_n of_o one_o corporation_n do_v in_o another_o corporation_n like_o this_o that_o carry_v authority_n in_o it_o and_o that_o here_o we_o must_v distinguish_v of_o the_o mayor_n if_o he_o do_v this_o at_o home_n he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o mayor_n authoritative_o but_o in_o this_o corporation_n he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o private_a man_n further_o they_o be_v minister_n or_o pastor_n only_o to_o those_o who_o elect_v and_o the_o fraternity_n only_o elect_v where_o there_o be_v no_o officer_n but_o there_o be_v divers_a in_o the_o several_a town_n who_o be_v not_o join_v to_o the_o church_n so_o they_o do_v not_o elect_v than_o it_o seem_v they_o preach_v as_o pastor_n only_o to_o those_o who_o elect_v but_o to_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o town_n as_o gift_a man_n consequent_o when_o god_n bless_v their_o labour_n to_o the_o conversion_n of_o any_o of_o those_o they_o convert_v they_o instrumental_o not_o as_o minister_n of_o christ_n ordain_v separate_v to_o that_o work_n but_o only_o as_o gift_a man_n yea_o they_o never_o convert_v any_o as_o minister_n unless_o some_o of_o those_o who_o elect_v they_o be_v close_a hypocrite_n and_o so_o they_o convert_v they_o but_o ordinary_o those_o who_o choose_v be_v repute_v godly_a already_o and_o they_o be_v minister_n only_o to_o they_o hence_o rise_v that_o vile_a notion_n that_o some_o here_o have_v take_v up_o that_o pastor_n shall_v preach_v only_o to_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o saint_n not_o to_o other_o 4._o i_o have_v hear_v since_o i_o come_v away_o that_o when_o people_n have_v choose_v a_o officer_n and_o have_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v he_o that_o the_o minister_n of_o other_o congregation_n have_v do_v it_o and_o the_o confession_n of_o church-discipline_n by_o the_o synod_n of_o new_a england_n as_o also_o mr._n hooker_n 59_o survey_v part_n 2._o pag._n 59_o allow_v as_o much_o 5._o if_o one_o congregation_n shall_v prove_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a and_o heretical_a then_o though_o they_o do_v not_o formal_o excommunicate_v such_o a_o congregation_n yet_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o country_n will_v proceed_v to_o the_o non-communion_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o for_o all_o the_o church_n to_o express_v so_o much_o to_o such_o a_o church_n we_o do_v all_o renounce_v communion_n with_o you_o etc._n etc._n this_o amount_n to_o a_o censure_n and_o be_v equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n contain_v in_o it_o all_o the_o effect_n that_o appear_v in_o excommunication_n and_o so_o i_o shall_v reckon_v myself_o as_o much_o excommunicate_v mr._n burrough_n say_v they_o may_v by_o a_o solemn_a act_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n 43._o iren._n 43._o refuse_v any_o communion_n with_o they_o till_o they_o repent_v they_o may_v declare_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n that_o these_o err_a church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v into_o fellowship_n with_o any_o church_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o have_v communion_n one_o with_o another_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n all_o this_o solemn_o in_o christ_n name_n only_o some_o may_v be_v will_v say_v if_o this_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n bring_v out_o the_o text_n to_o prove_v this_o and_o then_o we_o shall_v see_v if_o those_o text_n will_v not_o bear_v it_o out_o that_o the_o church_n unite_v thus_o in_o this_o censure_n have_v not_o some_o authority_n over_o that_o particular_a church_n if_o you_o go_v to_o the_o old_a polity_n the_o synedrion_n have_v power_n over_o particular_a congregation_n if_o to_o light_v of_o nature_n that_o will_v carry_v it_o so_o that_o we_o must_v have_v text_n to_o decide_v this_o question_n for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v leave_v this_o to_o better_a head_n lay_v all_o together_o the_o church_n seem_v to_o pactise_v as_o if_o there_o be_v such_o a_o church_n some_o thing_n there_o be_v which_o a_o little_a trouble_n i_o in_o this_o notion_n that_o make_v i_o not_o come_v off_o so_o roundly_o in_o receive_v it_o i_o question_v not_o the_o church-catholicke-visible_a but_o i_o mean_v that_o it_o be_v one_o organical_a body_n but_o as_o he_o say_v veritas_fw-la est_fw-la temporis_fw-la filia_fw-la so_o i_o believe_v time_n will_v cleave_v out_o this_o but_o so_o much_o i_o see_v as_o command_v i_o to_o lean_a to_o that_o side_n i_o be_v think_v how_o dangerous_a this_o may_v prove_v if_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o catholick-visible-church_n shall_v decline_v grow_v superstitious_a etc._n etc._n other_o church_n yet_o remain_v pure_a if_o they_o do_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o major_a part_n what_o then_o but_o i_o see_v inconvenience_n also_o on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o a_o congregation_n be_v so_o entire_a that_o they_o can_v elect_v ordain_v and_o be_v exempt_v from_o all_o power_n than_o arian_n photinian_o and_o all_o manner_n of_o heretic_n may_v elect_v ordain_v etc._n etc._n who_o shall_v deny_v they_o and_o beside_o suppose_v the_o major_a part_n of_o congregationall_a church_n shall_v decline_v they_o will_v proceed_v to_o non-communion_n of_o other_o particular_a church_n more_o pure_a and_o this_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n all_o one_o further_o if_o so_o then_o if_o a_o minister_n be_v remove_v from_o one_o congregation_n to_o another_o or_o if_o his_o people_n shall_v die_v he_o now_o be_v but_o a_o private_a person_n and_o may_v nor_o baptise_v etc._n etc._n hence_o also_o he_o must_v have_v another_o ordination_n when_o elect_v and_o as_o oft_o as_o he_o be_v elect_v it_o i_o have_v not_o hear_v any_o there_o but_o here_o allege_v it_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o clear_a in_o the_o practice_n i_o have_v search_v to_o find_v what_o scripturall_a ground_n there_o be_v for_o it_o but_o i_o find_v none_o that_o these_o reverend_n elder_n express_v some_o have_v allege_v in_o conference_n that_o act._n 13.3_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v ordain_v before_o and_o now_o they_o be_v ordain_v again_o but_o i_o find_v mr._n
separation_n examine_v or_o a_o treatise_n wherein_o the_o ground_n for_o separation_n from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n of_o england_n be_v weigh_v and_o find_v too_o light_a the_o practice_n prove_v to_o be_v not_o only_o unwarrantable_a but_o likewise_o so_o hurtful_a to_o the_o church_n that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o any_o comfort_n go_v forward_o so_o long_o as_o such_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v also_o a_o humble_a request_n present_v to_o the_o congregational_a divine_n that_o since_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o the_o classical-divines_a be_v very_o small_a they_o will_v please_v to_o strike_v in_o with_o the_o classical-divines_a in_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n before_o the_o inundation_n of_o these_o corrupt_a opinion_n have_v destroy_v both_o ordinance_n and_o religion_n by_o gi._n firmin_n minister_n to_o the_o church_n in_o shalford_n in_o essex_n 1_o cor._n 1.10_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o brethren_z by_o the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n that_o you_o all_o speak_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o schism_n among_o you_o judicabit_fw-la autem_fw-la &_o eosqui_fw-la schismata_fw-la operantur_fw-la qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la immanes_a non_fw-la habentes_fw-la dei_fw-la dilectionem_fw-la suamque_fw-la utilitatem_fw-la potius_fw-la considerantes_fw-la quà m_fw-la unitatem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la magnum_fw-la &_o gloriosum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la conscindunt_fw-la &_o dividunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 4._o c._n 62._o cavenda_fw-la sunt_fw-la autem_fw-la fratres_fw-la dilectissimi_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la aperta_fw-la &_o manifesta_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o astutae_fw-la fraudis_fw-la subtilitate_fw-la fallentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n haeteses_fw-la invenit_fw-la &_o schismata_fw-la quibus_fw-la subverteret_fw-la fidem_fw-la veritatem_fw-la corrumperet_fw-la scinderet_fw-la unitatem_fw-la cypr._n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles_n london_n print_v by_o r._n i._n for_o stephen_n bowtell_n at_o the_o bible_n in_o popes-head-alley_n 1652._o the_o content_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n pag._n 1_o there_o be_v a_o true_a gospel-ministry_n in_o england_n pag._n 4._o the_o ground_n of_o separation_n must_v be_v either_o in_o the_o ministry_n worship_n congregation_n or_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 12_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o minister_n by_o bishop_n can_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o separation_n p._n 22_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o worship_n be_v sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v here_o touch_v p._n 32_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o congregation_n though_o many_o wicked_a person_n be_v there_o nor_o in_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 39_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o separatist_n what_o they_o will_v have_v be_v set_v down_o and_o answer_v return_v as_o 1_o they_o will_v have_v minister_n lay_v down_o their_o former_a call_n and_o join_v with_o they_o than_o they_o it_o may_v be_v will_v elect_v they_o and_o ordain_v they_o where_o this_o question_n be_v handle_v p._n 46_o quest_n whether_o election_n only_o give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o minister_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n p._n 50_o whether_o the_o people_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v p._n 70_o whether_o the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n brief_o touch_v p._n 73_o 2_o they_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n which_o they_o call_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n p._n 81_o 3_o no_o church-member_n but_o visible_a saint_n p._n 82_o 4_o power_n in_o admission_n and_o excommunication_n p._n 83_o 5_o liberty_n to_o prophesy_v p._n 84_o 6_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n p._n 88_o how_o it_o appear_v that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o comfort_v proceed_v so_o long_o as_o the_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v p._n 91_o the_o separatist_n be_v no_o such-friend_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n as_o be_v pretend_v p._n 94_o the_o question_n propound_v to_o the_o separatist_n in_o reference_n to_o their_o separation_n p._n 97_o the_o agreement_n and_o difference_n with_o and_o between_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a divine_n be_v review_v their_o agreement_n find_v to_o be_v many_o their_o difference_n very_o few_o p._n 100_o whence_o a_o humble_a request_n be_v present_v to_o the_o congregationall_a divine_n speedy_o to_o join_v with_o the_o classical_a divine_n back_v with_o seven_o reason_n p._n 108_o to_o the_o reverend_a the_o minister_n of_o london_n the_o author_n of_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n print_v 1650._o father_n and_o brethren_n the_o goodness_n of_o god_n manifest_v of_o old_a to_o england_n in_o cause_v the_o sun_n of_o his_o gospel_n to_o rise_v early_o upon_o this_o nation_n and_o to_o find_v such_o entertainment_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o supreme_a power_n that_o it_o be_v the_o first_o nation_n that_o ever_o receive_v the_o gospel_n with_o the_o countenance_n of_o public_a authority_n have_v the_o first_o christian_a king_n that_o ever_o be_v be_v know_v to_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n his_o goodness_n in_o these_o latter_a day_n since_o he_o take_v from_o our_o neck_n the_o anti-christian_n yoke_n have_v be_v also_o wonderful_a honour_v the_o minister_n of_o his_o gospel_n with_o such_o holiness_n learning_n ministerial_a ability_n and_o success_n in_o their_o labour_n in_o convert_v many_o and_o set_v up_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o this_o nation_n that_o he_o have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n more_o nay_o without_o pride_n it_o may_v be_v speak_v his_o free_a grace_n have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n so_o much_o in_o these_o respect_n as_o this_o english_a nation_n but_o now_o in_o our_o day_n the_o ministry_n which_o god_n have_v thus_o honour_v be_v as_o much_o dishonour_v and_o that_o by_o such_o who_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v their_o own_o mouth_n have_v speak_v it_o that_o what_o spiritual_a good_a they_o have_v receive_v it_o be_v wrought_v by_o the_o ministry_n and_o now_o we_o find_v scorn_v deride_v separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o many_o not_o so_o much_o as_o step_v over_o their_o threshold_n to_o hear_v they_o who_o be_v the_o first_o instrument_n of_o their_o good_a if_o they_o have_v any_o as_o some_o we_o hope_v have_v and_o yet_o the_o minister_n be_v the_o same_o they_o be_v before_o yea_o some_o repent_v that_o ever_o they_o bestow_v so_o much_o pain_n and_o time_n to_o follow_v the_o minister_n as_o one_o that_o live_v but_o four_o or_o five_o mile_n from_o dedham_n have_v say_v he_o repent_v that_o he_o follow_v that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n mr._n rogers_n so_o much_o to_o hear_v his_o preach_n while_o i_o observe_v these_o thing_n and_o consider_v into_o what_o a_o sad_a condition_n we_o be_v fall_v and_o read_v over_o your_o vindication_n in_o which_o i_o see_v a_o holy_a meek_a and_o true_a christian_a spirit_n breathe_v call_v upon_o the_o congregationall_a man_n to_o join_v with_o you_o certain_o i_o think_v that_o book_n deserve_v a_o courteous_a christian_a answer_n from_o the_o able_a of_o our_o congregationall_a man_n what_o they_o have_v do_v towards_o it_o i_o know_v not_o be_v little_o acquaint_v with_o affair_n abroad_o be_v lock_v up_o in_o much_o sadness_n of_o spirit_n at_o home_n but_o i_o think_v with_o myself_o that_o be_v i_o be_v number_v among_o the_o independent_o though_o i_o be_o the_o weak_a and_o most_o worthy_a the_o holy_a lord_n shall_v turn_v i_o out_o of_o his_o holy_a work_n lay_v other_o thing_n together_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n i_o resolve_v to_o improve_v the_o little_a talon_n the_o lord_n have_v give_v i_o in_o examine_v the_o ground_n of_o these_o practice_n and_o to_o stand_v up_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o such_o minister_n who_o i_o see_v be_v dear_a to_o christ_n 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hear_v of_o divers_a and_o what_o i_o know_v by_o some_o church_n here_o
i_o shall_v have_v be_v convince_v that_o independent_a as_o it_o be_v here_o call_v government_n be_v never_o of_o christ_n institution_n i_o have_v observe_v few_o people_n that_o come_v once_o to_o stand_v up_o for_o independency_n but_o they_o grow_v very_o tender_a as_o they_o call_v it_o towards_o corrupt_a opinion_n if_o not_o leaven_v with_o they_o themselves_o not_o allow_v a_o minister_n to_o speak_v against_o they_o yea_o and_o those_o who_o i_o take_v to_o be_v the_o sober_a and_o best_a ground_v christian_n have_v not_o stick_v to_o censure_v new_a england_n sharp_o for_o be_v too_o strict_a against_o those_o which_o they_o call_v non-fundamentall_a error_n and_o i_o wish_v that_o some_o minister_n be_v not_o sick_a of_o that_o policy_n to_o plead_v for_o toleration_n of_o such_o opinion_n esteem_v it_o a_o piece_n of_o true_a christian_a wisdom_n to_o be_v silent_a and_o not_o to_o meddle_v but_o comply_v with_o all_o opinionist_n especial_o if_o they_o conceive_v they_o to_o be_v not_o in_o the_o fundamental_o which_o be_v but_o a_o few_o hierome_n think_v it_o be_v augustine_n honour_n 25._o aug._n epist_n 25._o that_o he_o so_o strong_o oppose_v the_o heresy_n of_o his_o time_n that_o all_o the_o heretic_n hate_v he_o to_o oppose_v by_o argument_n be_v good_a yea_o and_o to_o discountenance_v the_o contumacious_a be_v not_o amiss_o but_o it_o be_v now_o a_o honour_n for_o a_o man_n to_o be_v silent_a for_o your_o part_n my_o father_n you_o and_o the_o godly_a presbyterian_o of_o england_n be_v esteem_v the_o cause_n of_o all_o these_o trouble_n yea_o i_o observe_v by_o letter_n which_o myself_o and_o other_o have_v receive_v from_o the_o divine_n of_o new_a england_n that_o some_o have_v inform_v they_o as_o if_o you_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o second_o war_n when_o duke_n hamilton_n and_o lord_n goring_n etc._n etc._n arise_v also_o that_o you_o be_v so_o adverse_a to_o the_o congregationall_a church_n here_o that_o you_o have_v rather_o join_v with_o the_o common_a enemy_n and_o hazard_v your_o own_o liberty_n then_o enjoy_v your_o liberty_n with_o your_o brethren_n the_o congregationall_a man_n but_o you_o have_v i_o think_v sufficient_o clear_v yourselves_o from_o these_o aspersion_n in_o your_o vindication_n yea_o and_o so_o can_v the_o congregationall_a man_n clear_v you_o i_o believe_v there_o be_v one_o report_n that_o go_v for_o truth_n and_o that_o among_o person_n of_o note_n and_o upon_o that_o ground_n i_o perceive_v i_o mean_v some_o man_n here_o they_o much_o satisfy_v themselves_o in_o this_o scorn_n cast_v upon_o you_o viz._n that_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n when_o thing_n be_v likely_a to_o settle_v on_o the_o presbyterian_a side_n shall_v determine_v that_o congregationall_a minister_n shall_v not_o be_v allow_v any_o public_a place_n to_o preach_v in_o nor_o shall_v be_v allow_v any_o public_a maintenance_n this_o be_v certain_o believe_v by_o man_n of_o note_n i_o wish_v the_o truth_n be_v clear_v i_o be_o not_o ignorant_a what_o provocation_n it_o be_v to_o have_v your_o people_n take_v from_o you_o etc._n etc._n but_o yet_o i_o can_v hardly_o believe_v the_o assembly_n to_o be_v so_o hard_a to_o their_o brethren_n further_a but_o that_o i_o be_o too_o mean_a to_o move_v and_o know_v not_o whither_o my_o motion_n be_v good_a or_o no_o in_o your_o thought_n i_o can_v hearty_o wish_v you_o will_v please_v to_o declare_v 121._o pag._n 119_o 120_o 121._o how_o far_o you_o can_v yield_v to_o the_o congregationall_a brethren_n you_o have_v hint_v some_o thing_n in_o your_o vindication_n which_o imply_v much_o but_o if_o it_o be_v think_v meet_a to_o speak_v out_o a_o little_a more_o full_o then_o shall_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v clear_o understand_v where_o the_o great_a cause_n of_o this_o dis-union_n lie_v against_o all_o false_a report_n that_o be_v send_v to_o they_o and_o now_o my_o reverend_a father_n i_o beseech_v you_o accept_v of_o this_o testimony_n of_o the_o honour_n i_o owe_v you_o have_v venture_v after_o many_o resolution_n to_o the_o contrary_n fear_v my_o weakness_n to_o dedicate_v this_o treatise_n to_o you_o it_o be_v the_o great_a desire_n of_o my_o heart_n to_o see_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n first_o exalt_v in_o my_o own_o wretched_a heart_n and_o then_o to_o see_v classical_a and_o congregationall_a man_n join_v together_o with_o one_o shoulder_n to_o set_v up_o his_o visible_a kingdom_n in_o england_n oppose_v error_n and_o schism_n and_o christ_n ride_v in_o triumph_n upon_o his_o white_a horse_n conquer_a soul_n by_o his_o poor_a instrument_n that_o once_o it_o may_v be_v say_v of_o england_n the_o lord_n bless_v thou_o o_o habitation_n of_o justice_n and_o mountain_n of_o holiness_n 31.23_o jer._n 31.23_o so_o pray_v he_o who_o be_v unworthy_a to_o be_v call_v your_o fellow-labourer_n in_o the_o lord_n jan._n 19_o 1651._o giles_n firmin_n to_o the_o reader_n christian_n reader_n i_o shall_v brief_o give_v you_o a_o account_n what_o move_v i_o to_o undertake_v this_o task_n 1._o i_o observe_v it_o very_o common_a among_o christian_n when_o we_o have_v be_v speak_v about_o some_o minister_n godly_a eminent_a etc._n etc._n against_o who_o no_o objection_n can_v be_v make_v but_o if_o he_o be_v a_o man_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a judgement_n they_o will_v make_v slight_a account_n of_o he_o he_o he_o be_v a_o presbyterian_a and_o if_o you_o have_v say_v so_o presbyterian_a be_v crime_n enough_o hence_o to_o separate_v from_o a_o presbyterial_a minister_n though_o never_o so_o able_a and_o godly_a they_o think_v it_o no_o offence_n at_o all_o this_o make_v i_o search_v what_o they_o have_v to_o say_v against_o these_o presbyterial_a man_n whether_o their_o ground_n for_o such_o contempt_n be_v solid_a as_o also_o for_o their_o separation_n 2._o i_o receive_v two_o letter_n from_o new_a england_n from_o a_o worthy_a divine_a one_o some_o long_a time_n since_o the_o other_o but_o late_o in_o which_o there_o be_v these_o passage_n in_o the_o first_o which_o be_v write_v after_o the_o overthrow_n of_o duke_n hamilton_n he_o have_v this_o passage_n we_o do_v not_o know_v what_o to_o pray_v for_o in_o your_o behalf_n god_n have_v remove_v adversary_n fight_v miraculous_o for_o you_o against_o the_o scot_n and_o put_v the_o power_n of_o thing_n into_o such_o hand_n as_o have_v be_v most_o active_a for_o the_o godly_a party_n and_o yet_o your_o condition_n be_v as_o miserable_a as_o ever_o the_o lord_n help_v for_o vain_a be_v the_o help_n of_o man_n i_o much_o fear_n you_o that_o be_v the_o godly_a minister_n have_v be_v too_o passive_a and_o not_o so_o zealous_a against_o error_n and_o heresy_n as_o you_o ought_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v just_a with_o the_o lord_n to_o let_v in_o these_o inundation_n of_o hellish_a opinion_n upon_o you_o which_o damp_n all_o power_n of_o religion_n wheresoever_o they_o become_v though_o i_o be_o not_o worthy_a to_o be_v reckon_v among_o the_o godly_a minister_n yet_o my_o conscience_n do_v not_o accuse_v i_o of_o this_o fault_n i_o be_o rather_o judge_v a_o man_n too_o severe_a in_o his_o other_o letter_n which_o come_v at_o the_o end_n of_o this_o summer_n he_o write_v thus_o it_o be_v the_o wonderment_n of_o this_o side_n of_o the_o world_n that_o you_o that_o be_v godly_a and_o may_v agree_v yet_o will_v not_o neither_o do_v my_o conscience_n accuse_v i_o in_o this_o point_n i_o hope_v i_o shall_v clear_v it_o by_o the_o ensue_a discourse_n 3._o among_o the_o many_o crime_n charge_v upon_o the_o independent_a church_n i_o have_v note_v these_o two_o especial_o 1._o that_o they_o be_v but_o a_o back_n door_n for_o error_n and_o heresy_n 2._o that_o they_o regard_v nothing_o but_o their_o own_o interest_n so_o long_o as_o they_o have_v their_o liberty_n though_o there_o be_v minister_n as_o godly_a able_a and_o learned_a and_o many_o hundred_o of_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o the_o nation_n beside_o they_o yet_o they_o regard_v not_o 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england_n there_o be_v true_a gospel-minister_n i_o put_v in_o the_o word_n many_o oppose_v i_o dare_v venture_v far_o here_o but_o that_o i_o will_v save_v myself_o against_o those_o who_o i_o oppose_v because_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o shall_v maintain_v my_o ground_n for_o why_o shall_v i_o have_v undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o all_o the_o minister_n in_o england_n be_v true_a gospel-minister_n and_o that_o in_o every_o parochial_a congregation_n in_o the_o blind_a corner_n of_o england_n there_o be_v such_o visible_a saint_n as_o aught_o to_o be_v in_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n enough_o i_o mean_v to_o make_v a_o church_n i_o shall_v have_v have_v a_o hard_a task_n but_o by_o this_o word_n many_o i_o include_v abundance_n both_o church_n and_o minister_n beside_o our_o congregationall_a minister_n now_o to_o my_o argument_n the_o major_n can_v be_v deny_v for_o all_o the_o cause_n be_v there_o set_v down_o which_o be_v require_v to_o a_o true_a minister_n 1_o the_o efficient_a cause_n god_n 2_o material_a cause_n a_o man_n sufficient_o qualify_v i_o mean_v according_a to_o paul_n phrase_n 2_o tim._n 2.2_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o same_o word_n with_o 2_o cor._n 2_o 16_o who_o be_v sufficient_a two_o distinction_n will_v clear_v this_o latter_a text_n but_o i_o spare_v the_o reader_n 3_o formal_n cause_n orderly_o call_v i_o put_v in_o at_o least_o for_o substance_n because_o i_o will_v include_v many_o of_o the_o presbyterial_a man_n 4_o final_a cause_n ephes_n 4.12_o the_o end_n of_o the_o ministry_n be_v for_o the_o perfect_a of_o the_o saint_n for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n for_o the_o edify_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n so_o that_o no_o rational_a man_n can_v deny_v the_o major_a now_o for_o the_o minor_a that_o there_o be_v many_o such_o minister_n in_o england_n we_o shall_v see_v 1_o for_o the_o efficient_a cause_n there_o be_v no_o controversy_n there_o 2_o for_o the_o material_a that_o they_o be_v sufficient_o 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ministry_n with_o the_o neighbourhood_n of_o some_o learned_a able_a divine_a to_o have_v his_o recourse_n to_o i_o say_v i_o can_v allow_v such_o a_o one_o to_o preach_v in_o dark_a corner_n of_o the_o land_n but_o when_o man_n will_v cry_v out_o of_o other_o minister_n for_o want_n of_o orderly_a call_n separate_z from_o they_o and_o thus_o carry_v themselves_o that_o the_o bone_n of_o their_o ambition_n stick_v out_o and_o then_o through_o unfoundnesse_n in_o opinion_n though_o no_o way_n able_a though_o not_o regular_o call_v yet_o they_o will_v get_v into_o live_n and_o pulpit_n this_o be_v abominable_a so_o much_o for_o election_n that_o part_n of_o their_o call_n will_v hold_v as_o for_o the_o other_o requisite_a ordination_n to_o prove_v our_o minister_n have_v that_o also_o for_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o here_o will_v lie_v the_o pinch_n of_o the_o controversy_n therefore_o i_o reserve_v it_o for_o another_o place_n four_o for_o the_o final_a cause_n here_o also_o the_o 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of_o they_o be_v no_o occasion_n to_o hinder_v their_o work_n for_o you_o must_v answer_v for_o it_o what_o ever_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n be_v so_o much_o for_o my_o first_o argument_n 2._o i_o will_v use_v a_o second_o argument_n to_o prove_v we_o have_v true_a minister_n etc._n etc._n and_o here_o i_o will_v propound_v one_o question_n to_o these_o man_n who_o thus_o deny_v the_o ministry_n it_o be_v this_o be_v there_o ever_o any_o true_a minister_n and_o church_n let_v i_o put_v in_o they_o also_o since_o the_o apostle_n day_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v say_v yes_o but_o i_o pray_v how_o long_o be_v there_o such_o minister_n and_o church_n in_o which_o century_n do_v there_o cease_v to_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n i_o suppose_v you_o will_v say_v when_o antichrist_n begin_v here_o now_o you_o will_v do_v we_o a_o good_a turn_n if_o you_o can_v make_v it_o out_o clear_a to_o we_o when_o that_o be_v that_o so_o we_o may_v know_v how_o long_o our_o misery_n 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or_o three_o year_n together_o in_o secunda_fw-la epist_n and_o episc_n orient_a hence_o also_o care_n be_v take_v afterward_o that_o none_o but_o bishop_n shall_v make_v this_o the_o presbyter_n must_v not_o dare_v to_o do_v it_o sylvester_n in_o council_n rom._n also_o holy_a vesture_n for_o the_o minister_n to_o be_v use_v only_o in_o the_o church_n many_o of_o we_o never_o own_v these_o hil._n epist_n steph_n ad_fw-la hil._n all_o have_v cast_v they_o away_o also_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n the_o mix_n of_o water_n with_o the_o wine_n which_o how_o ever_o some_o say_v it_o be_v because_o of_o the_o hot_a country_n yet_o alexander_n who_o they_o say_v be_v the_o first_o that_o mix_v water_n with_o wine_n 2._o epist_n ad_fw-la omnes_fw-la ortho._n apol._n 2._o do_v not_o give_v that_o reason_n but_o because_o water_v and_o blood_n come_v out_o of_o christ_n side_n in_o justin_n martyr_n time_n it_o seem_v this_o be_v their_o manner_n also_o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o institution_n also_o we_o find_v several_a church-officer_n among_o they_o as_o appear_v by_o gaius_n bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o order_v that_o all_o the_o order_n in_o the_o church_n must_v ascend_v from_o the_o doorkeeper_n to_o the_o bishop_n ostiarius_n lector_fw-la exorcista_fw-la acolythus_n subdiaconus_fw-la diaconus_fw-la presbyter_n episcopus_fw-la the_o ordination_n of_o these_o officer_n with_o their_o ceremony_n be_v after_o set_v down_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n if_o the_o decretal_n of_o gaius_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n all_o these_o be_v in_o primitive_a church_n before_o constantine_n come_v to_o the_o empire_n more_o thing_n i_o may_v add_v but_o i_o forbear_v and_o though_o there_o be_v many_o glorious_a martyr_n yet_o all_o their_o church-member_n be_v not_o such_o many_o do_v yield_v to_o the_o heathenish_a idolatry_n when_o persecution_n begin_v yea_o and_o there_o be_v foul_a sin_n among_o they_o church_n as_o adultery_n whoredom_n yea_o 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be_v most_o clear_a it_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n for_o when_o the_o people_n be_v go_v exercise_n be_v finish_v than_o it_o seem_v she_o be_v wont_a to_o tell_v the_o officer_n i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v what_o revelation_n she_o have_v which_o they_o note_v exact_o tertullian_n then_o be_v so_o plain_a and_o full_a for_o this_o practice_n that_o none_o can_v doubt_v whether_o the_o church_n use_v this_o ordinance_n or_o no._n socrates_n scholast_n speak_v of_o the_o hymn_n which_o chrysost_o appoint_a his_o own_o people_n to_o sing_v in_o opposition_n to_o the_o arian_n 8._o eccles_n hist_o l._n 6._o c._n 8._o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chapter_n tell_v we_o that_o ignatius_n a_o man_n very_o familiar_a with_o the_o apostle_n see_v a_o vision_n of_o angel_n which_o extol_v the_o bless_a trinity_n with_o hymn_n that_o be_v sing_v interchangeable_o and_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n the_o order_n and_o manner_n of_o sing_v express_v in_o the_o vision_n so_o he_o 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the_o church_n and_o that_o the_o people_n be_v wont_a to_o sing_v that_o now_o they_o limit_v sing_v to_o the_o canonical_a psalmist_n that_o athanasius_n use_v sing_v in_o his_o church_n appear_v also_o in_o august_n confess_v l._n 10._o c._n 33._o also_o that_o the_o psalm_n of_o david_n be_v sing_v then_o appear_v in_o the_o same_o place_n and_o in_o his_o 119._o epist_n c._n 18._o where_o he_o affirm_v that_o for_o sing_v of_o psalm_n and_o hymn_n we_o have_v the_o example_n and_o precept_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n blame_v withal_o the_o donatist_n that_o learning_n david_n psalm_n they_o sing_v hymn_n of_o their_o own_o invent_v etc._n etc._n as_o for_o those_o who_o will_v allow_v sing_v if_o it_o may_v be_v of_o some_o spiritual_a song_n compose_v by_o some_o saint_n now_o upon_o some_o occasion_n i_o do_v not_o now_o trouble_v myself_o about_o they_o only_o i_o wish_v they_o to_o make_v better_a song_n than_o that_o brother_n of_o one_o of_o the_o church_n in_o 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congregation_n be_v very_o corrupt_v they_o say_v hence_o they_o think_v they_o be_v bind_v to_o separate_v and_o allege_v these_o place_n 2_o cor._n 6.17_o revel_v 18.4_o 1._o that_o there_o be_v very_o many_o corrupt_a person_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a congregation_n there_o be_v none_o deny_v it_o and_o i_o wish_v the_o independent_a church_n have_v not_o some_o corrupt_a person_n also_o among_o they_o you_o do_v not_o hear_v they_o justify_v all_o their_o church-member_n but_o you_o shall_v find_v they_o complain_v of_o this_o corruption_n and_o endeavour_v by_o degree_n to_o correct_v it_o yea_o i_o believe_v have_v they_o power_n in_o their_o hand_n they_o will_v soon_o show_v what_o they_o will_v do_v i_o pray_v hear_v some_o of_o their_o word_n 115._o vindica_fw-la p._n 115._o the_o london_n minister_n though_o we_o dare_v not_o make_v separation_n from_o a_o true_a church_n yet_o we_o do_v make_v separation_n in_o a_o true_a church_n read_v over_o the_o whole_a answer_n and_o you_o may_v perceive_v their_o mind_n 76._o p._n 76._o before_o this_o in_o their_o exhortation_n to_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n you_o have_v this_o one_o branch_n of_o their_o exhortation_n that_o they_o will_v labour_v to_o make_v their_o congregation_n pure_a as_o well_o as_o peaceable_a follow_v after_o piety_n as_o much_o as_o after_o verity_n and_o unity_n that_o all_o your_o people_n under_o your_o charge_n may_v be_v visible_a saint_n at_o least_o 97._o review_n of_o mr_n hoo_n a_o p._n 89._o ad_fw-la 97._o you_o may_v feel_v how_o the_o pulse_n of_o these_o man_n beat_v i_o observe_v also_o mr._n cawdry_n differ_v very_o little_a from_o mr._n hooker_n in_o this_o point_n about_o visible_a saint_n be_v the_o material_a cause_n of_o a_o church_n where_o you_o may_v see_v what_o he_o will_v have_v if_o discipline_n be_v once_o establish_v that_o the_o congregation_n be_v thus_o corrupt_a 202_o see_v he_o also_o p._n 202_o the_o fault_n be_v not_o in_o they_o but_o in_o the_o old_a hierarchy_n who_o error_n while_o they_o go_v about_o to_o mend_v you_o go_v away_o from_o they_o 2._o i_o be_o sure_a very_o many_o parochial_a congregation_n in_o england_n have_v both_o visible_a and_o real_a saint_n must_v these_o and_o the_o ministry_n be_v cast_v off_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o other_o corrupt_a one_o who_o they_o will_v glad_o also_o mend_v if_o they_o can_v or_o else_o purge_v they_o out_o 3._o i_o wish_v you_o will_v give_v we_o precept_n or_o example_n where_o there_o have_v be_v church_n with_o so_o many_o visible_a saint_n and_o such_o minister_n and_o these_o minister_n desire_v and_o labour_v to_o reform_v as_o they_o do_v and_o yet_o that_o christian_n have_v do_v or_o shall_v separate_v from_o they_o those_o text_n above_o mention_v and_o often_o allege_v if_o you_o please_v to_o view_v they_o well_o again_o be_v very_o far_o from_o prove_v it_o corrupt_a member_n there_o be_v enough_o in_o the_o jewish_a church_n and_o so_o in_o the_o christian_a church_n soon_o after_o and_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n but_o you_o have_v no_o example_n of_o separate_n from_o they_o but_o in_o they_o say_v the_o london_n minister_n we_o do_v separate_v 4._o but_o i_o pray_v wherein_o do_v these_o wicked_a man_n trouble_v you_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v give_v man_n leave_v to_o hear_v the_o word_n be_v they_o never_o so_o wicked_a but_o many_o of_o you_o come_v not_o so_o much_o as_o to_o hear_v object_n but_o they_o trouble_v we_o because_o they_o mix_v with_o we_o in_o prayer_n answ_n no_o mixture_n ever_o trouble_v i_o in_o ordinance_n so_o much_o as_o my_o own_o heart_n 7._o the_o grecian_n before_o they_o go_v to_o kill_v the_o sacrifice_n use_v to_o cry_v out_o to_o the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d let_v we_o pray_v rous_n arch._n att._n l._n 2._o c._n 9_o they_o pray_v also_o in_o the_o temple_n c._n 7._o if_o i_o can_v separate_v from_o that_o i_o shall_v be_v happy_a but_o for_o prayer_n why_o will_v not_o you_o have_v they_o join_v in_o prayer_n when_o as_o first_o prayer_n be_v a_o part_n of_o natural_a worship_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n dictate_v this_o to_o every_o man_n if_o he_o own_o a_o god_n then_o pray_v unto_o he_o jonah_n 1.6_o call_v upon_o thy_o god_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o hope_v none_o in_o your_o congregation_n but_o own_o even_o the_o true_a god_n therefore_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o pray_v to_o he_o second_o peter_n when_o he_o see_v simon_n act._n 8.22_o in_o the_o very_a gall_n of_o bitterness_n yet_o bid_v he_o pray_v god_n then_o worst_a of_o man_n may_v pray_v three_o prayer_n god_n have_v use_v to_o be_v a_o convert_v ordinance_n i_o have_v know_v one_o myself_o that_o now_o be_v in_o heaven_n
covenant_n though_o i_o can_v hearty_o wish_v all_o our_o minister_n will_v follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o holland_n church_n who_o cause_n all_o apollon_n apollon_n who_o come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n to_o promise_v to_o subject_n to_o discipline_n yet_o for_o the_o present_a i_o say_v this_o there_o be_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n in_o all_o these_o church_n and_o if_o you_o be_v afraid_a to_o speak_v to_o these_o person_n first_o who_o you_o will_v have_v suspend_v then_o go_v to_o the_o minister_n and_o carry_v sufficient_a witness_n as_o you_o must_v do_v in_o any_o church_n and_o i_o be_o confident_a without_o satisfaction_n give_v no_o more_o can_v be_v require_v in_o any_o church_n thousand_o of_o the_o presbyterial_a minister_n will_v keep_v away_o scandalous_a person_n at_o least_o you_o be_v clear_a as_o i_o say_v before_o yet_o to_o see_v these_o man_n separate_v for_o that_o in_o which_o themselves_o be_v most_o to_o blame_v obj._n but_o they_o baptize_v all_o child_n make_v no_o difference_n though_o never_o so_o scandalous_a a._n though_o this_o be_v very_o seldom_o urge_v yet_o because_o i_o will_v draw_v out_o all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v i_o add_v this_o for_o my_o own_o practice_n i_o confess_v in_o this_o i_o differ_v from_o other_o man_n far_o better_a than_o myself_o but_o yet_o be_v i_o a_o member_n of_o some_o other_o presbyterial_a congregation_n i_o shall_v not_o dare_v to_o separate_v upon_o this_o ground_n 1_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o our_o congregationall_a man_n 11._o mr._n hook_n survey_v p._n 3_o p._n 11._o that_o though_o person_n be_v very_o wicked_a yet_o so_o long_o as_o they_o live_v in_o visible_a church_n and_o be_v not_o proceed_v against_o they_o may_v just_o challenge_v the_o privilege_n of_o church-member_n but_o i_o dare_v not_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o which_o there_o be_v many_o such_o for_o there_o be_v many_o both_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o such_o church_n where_o these_o wicked_a man_n be_v obj._n but_o then_o this_o make_v against_o yourself_o in_o deny_v some_o child_n baptism_n a._n practice_n learned_a mr._n cawdrey_n come_v to_o my_o hand_n after_o i_o have_v print_v my_o little_a treatise_n have_v i_o see_v he_o before_o i_o shall_v have_v humble_o present_v some_o answer_n to_o some_o thing_n which_o i_o see_v theâ—e_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v my_o question_n the_o question_n about_o confederacy_n do_v not_o concern_v i_o also_o i_o will_v have_v propound_v some_o reason_n why_o his_o three_o way_n i_o e._n adoption_n i_o shall_v not_o so_o easy_o admit_v under_o the_o new_a testament_n till_o those_o reason_n be_v remove_v i_o perceive_v he_o admire_v at_o they_o who_o deny_v the_o child_n of_o excommunicate_v parent_n baptism_n i_o have_v no_o place_n now_o to_o answer_v but_o only_o this_o i_o say_v it_o be_v not_o good_a to_o put_v too_o much_o upon_o baptism_n nor_o too_o little_a upon_o that_o dreadful_a ordinance_n of_o excommunication_n what_o he_o say_v p._n 202._o about_o the_o impotence_n to_o reject_v profane_a person_n through_o the_o iniquity_n of_o the_o time_n which_o imply_v what_o he_o will_v do_v if_o he_o have_v power_n confirm_v my_o practice_n i_o answer_v as_o i_o have_v declare_v in_o that_o little_a tract_n upon_o this_o question_n which_o the_o uncivil_a carriage_n of_o some_o in_o the_o congregation_n when_o i_o have_v deal_v love_o with_o they_o in_o private_a before_o force_v i_o to_o print_v i_o deny_v not_o they_o baptism_n absolute_o but_o as_o i_o suspend_v they_o from_o one_o of_o the_o seal_n so_o i_o do_v from_o this_o also_o till_o they_o will_v labour_v to_o get_v out_o of_o their_o gross_a ignorance_n and_o scandalous_a conversation_n and_o will_v subject_v themselves_o to_o church-discipline_n so_o that_o i_o do_v as_o say_v the_o london_n minister_n separate_v in_o the_o church_n but_o not_o from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o state_n of_o our_o lapse_v church_n will_v give_v we_o leave_v i_o desire_v to_o proceed_v against_o such_o yet_o but_o gentle_o as_o for_o excommunication_n that_o be_v a_o great_a work_n have_v the_o advantage_n in_o the_o church_n that_o many_o good_a minister_n better_o than_o myself_o have_v not_o viz._n that_o the_o strong_a party_n in_o the_o town_n be_v religious_a but_o have_v many_o presbyterial_a man_n the_o same_o advantage_n i_o believe_v you_o shall_v see_v they_o will_v be_v more_o strict_a than_o now_o they_o be_v congregation_n must_v be_v mend_v by_o degree_n to_o purge_v per_fw-mi vice_n in_o foul_a body_n be_v better_a than_o at_o first_o to_o give_v hellebore_n scammony_n and_o such_o strong_a worker_n it_o will_v cost_v abundance_n of_o prayer_n wisdom_n labour_n meekness_n to_o bring_v these_o congregation_n fall_v into_o this_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n for_o want_v of_o catechise_v and_o discipline_n let_v the_o bishop_n look_v to_o their_o account_n beside_o divers_a presbyterial_a minister_n do_v examine_v their_o people_n before_o they_o will_v baptise_v yea_o and_o i_o have_v hear_v one_o who_o be_v esteem_v a_o rigid_a presbyterian_a say_v that_o if_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v settle_v they_o will_v baptise_v none_o but_o they_o will_v have_v the_o parent_n 1._o examine_v in_o point_n of_o knowledge_n 2._o if_o they_o be_v scandalous_a that_o they_o shall_v confess_v their_o sin_n 3._o promise_v for_o the_o time_n to_o come_v to_o reform_v 4._o that_o if_o person_n will_v refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n they_o will_v deny_v they_o the_o lord_n supper_n since_o than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o heart_n of_o many_o to_o reform_v and_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o will_v glad_o have_v power_n to_o do_v i_o think_v it_o be_v very_o unwarrantable_a upon_o this_o ground_n to_o separate_v from_o they_o beside_o there_o be_v many_o reason_n they_o give_v for_o baptise_v of_o all_o that_o do_v but_o profess_v christ_n which_o though_o they_o be_v not_o satisfactory_a unto_o i_o so_o as_o to_o give_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n to_o one_o who_o say_v he_o believe_v in_o christ_n but_o yet_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n yet_o their_o reason_n prevail_v with_o i_o so_o as_o to_o be_v very_o charitable_a to_o those_o who_o do_v baptise_v upon_o those_o ground_n if_o there_o be_v any_o sin_n in_o it_o let_v the_o minister_n look_v to_o that_o that_o be_v not_o your_o fault_n certain_o people_n think_v it_o be_v a_o very_a easy_a thing_n to_o reform_v church_n it_o may_v be_v do_v with_o a_o wet_a finger_n but_o if_o they_o be_v in_o the_o place_n of_o minister_n and_o have_v what_o knowledge_n be_v fit_a for_o the_o place_n they_o will_v find_v it_o a_o hard_a work_n especial_o some_o church_n so_o then_o as_o yet_o we_o find_v no_o ground_n warrantable_a for_o this_o separation_n i_o come_v to_o the_o last_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n it_o be_v idolatrous_a and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o i_o think_v here_o to_o have_v give_v in_o some_o answer_n to_o this_o absurd_a cavil_n but_o the_o practice_n of_o this_o generation_n have_v give_v in_o a_o full_a answer_n for_o it_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o neighbour_n town_n the_o minister_n not_o preach_v upon_o a_o day_n of_o thanksgiving_n a_o trooper_n get_v into_o the_o pulpit_n and_o do_v etc._n etc._n this_o be_v such_o a_o pretty_a thing_n that_o divers_a of_o the_o separatist_n in_o the_o town_n who_o have_v not_o be_v in_o the_o steeplehouse_n for_o some_o year_n before_o run_v in_o haste_n and_o become_v auditor_n of_o the_o trooper_n another_o of_o they_o who_o call_v himself_o the_o king_n of_o england_n come_v to_o i_o and_o offer_v to_o supply_v my_o place_n the_o man_n be_v mad_a as_o error_n have_v make_v he_o mad_a but_o for_o all_o civil_a action_n sober_a enough_o now_o from_o these_o practice_n i_o gather_v that_o either_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n to_o meet_v in_o a_o steeplehouse_n as_o they_o call_v it_o or_o else_o they_o have_v no_o good_a conscience_n these_o practice_n be_v frequent_a if_o trooper_n get_v into_o pulpit_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o assemble_v in_o these_o place_n mr._n lect._n hos_fw-la 2._o ch_z 15._o lect._n burrough_n have_v plead_v more_o may_v be_v add_v but_o i_o spare_v the_o reader_n as_o yet_o then_o we_o have_v find_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n i_o shall_v desire_v yet_o to_o come_v near_o and_o request_n of_o these_o person_n what_o it_o be_v they_o will_v have_v which_o way_n may_v we_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o union_n if_o what_o they_o propound_v be_v rational_a and_o will_v be_v bear_v out_o by_o scripture_n we_o shall_v desire_n to_o come_v up_o to_o they_o for_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o that_o posture_n we_o now_o stand_v nothing_o can_v go_v forward_o i_o have_v not_o their_o proposal_n before_o
official_a power_n till_o i_o be_v also_o ordain_v the_o scripture_n then_o express_v such_o solemnity_n in_o this_o act_n and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o make_v i_o think_v this_o be_v not_o such_o a_o slight_a adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o only_o essential_a five_o i_o observe_v two_o text_n which_o make_v i_o think_v ordination_n be_v not_o a_o adjunct_n 2_o tim._n 2._o and_o the_o thing_n which_o thou_o have_v hear_v of_o i_o among_o many_o witness_n the_o same_o commit_v thou_o to_o faithful_a man_n who_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o teach_v other_o also_o and_o that_o text_n 1_o tim._n 5.22_o lay_v hand_n sudden_o upon_o no_o man_n neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n etc._n etc._n timothy_n be_v a_o church-officer_n here_o be_v a_o charge_n give_v to_o he_o to_o take_v heed_n who_o come_v into_o the_o ministry_n yea_o he_o may_v be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n if_o he_o have_v not_o a_o special_a care_n who_o he_o admit_v into_o the_o ministry_n nam_fw-la si_fw-la quem_fw-la cito_fw-la ordinaveris_fw-la qui_fw-la indignus_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n communicare_fw-la cum_fw-la dicit_fw-la peccatis_fw-la qui_fw-la non_fw-la probatus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la ordinatus_fw-la hieron_n in_o loc._n v._o zanch._n in_o 4_o praec_fw-la p._n 784._o etc._n etc._n communicabis_fw-la peccatis_fw-la alienis_fw-la dum_fw-la ille_fw-la malè_fw-la docebit_fw-la aut_fw-la vivet_fw-la say_v gerhard_n in_o loc._n he_o quote_v also_o leo_n papa_n ep._n 87._o ad_fw-la africanos_n episc_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la citò_fw-la manus_fw-la imponere_fw-la nisi_fw-la ante_fw-la aetatem_fw-la maturitatis_fw-la antè_fw-la tempus_fw-la examinis_fw-la ante_fw-la meritum_fw-la laboris_fw-la antè_fw-la experientiam_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la sacerdotalem_fw-la honorem_fw-la tribuere_fw-la non_fw-la probatis_fw-la calvin_n also_o on_o the_o last_o word_n keep_v thyself_o pure_a ac_fw-la si_fw-la dixisset_fw-la si_fw-la quid_fw-la perperam_fw-la fiat_fw-la ab_fw-la aliis_fw-la vide_fw-la ne_fw-la ulla_fw-la ex_fw-la consensu_fw-la vel_fw-la approbatione_fw-la contagio_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perveniat_fw-la he_o refer_v it_o to_o timothy_n join_v with_o other_o in_o ordain_v unworthy_a person_n now_o these_o text_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o people_n but_o minister_n officer_n as_o be_v timothy_n which_o make_v i_o think_v that_o what_o the_o minister_n do_v in_o examine_v try_v ordain_v be_v more_o than_o the_o people_n election_n where_o do_v we_o find_v such_o thing_n speak_v to_o the_o people_n where_o the_o great_a blame_n lie_v for_o unworthy_a man_n come_v into_o the_o ministry_n sure_o there_o must_v lie_v the_o great_a power_n of_o admit_v man_n into_o the_o ministry_n else_o the_o blame_n be_v not_o just_a but_o we_o see_v the_o blame_n be_v here_o lay_v upon_o the_o minister_n ☞_o ☞_o paul_n no_o where_n write_v to_o the_o people_n to_o commit_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v hear_v etc._n etc._n nor_o do_v he_o bid_v they_o not_o lay_v on_o hand_n sudden_o etc._n etc._n he_o bid_v they_o indeed_o look_v out_o man_n for_o deacon_n but_o that_o do_v not_o answer_v these_o text_n but_o if_o the_o great_a stroke_n the_o formal_a cause_n lie_v in_o the_o popular_a election_n the_o minister_n may_v well_o say_v we_o do_v but_o ordain_v we_o give_v but_o a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n do_v the_o main_a act_n they_o give_v the_o essence_n the_o essence_n be_v give_v we_o must_v give_v the_o adjunct_n so_o that_o there_o will_v be_v no_o blame_n leave_v for_o the_o minister_n 6_o it_o shall_v seem_v by_o a_o passage_n of_o doct._n 12._o bellar._n enter_v to._n 2_o l_o 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 12._o ames_n that_o ordination_n be_v more_o than_o a_o adjunct_n bellarmine_n have_v say_v vocatio_fw-la seu_fw-la missio_fw-la ministrorum_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la populum_fw-la pertinet_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la episcopos_fw-la etc._n etc._n doct._n ames_n in_o his_o second_o answer_n have_v these_o word_n absurdè_fw-la ad_fw-la modum_fw-la distinguitur_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ministri_fw-la ab_fw-la ejus_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n tanquam_fw-la pars_fw-la distincta_fw-la neque_fw-la in_o scripture_n neque_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la patribus_fw-la alia_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ordinaria_fw-la memoratur_fw-la quam_fw-la illa_fw-la quae_fw-la exurgit_fw-la quasi_fw-la totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n what_o totum_fw-la the_o doctor_n mean_v be_v plain_a by_o his_o word_n exurgit_fw-la ex_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n he_o mean_v totum_fw-la integrale_fw-la so_o than_o ordination_n and_o election_n be_v member_n of_o this_o integrum_fw-la but_o all_o the_o member_n do_v give_v essence_n to_o the_o integrum_fw-la for_o membra_fw-la sunt_fw-la symbola_fw-la causarum_fw-la essentialium_fw-la if_o so_o then_o ordination_n can_v be_v a_o adjunct_n in_o respect_n of_o a_o ministerial_a call_n for_o no_o adjunct_n give_v essence_n but_o follow_v the_o essence_n suppose_v the_o subject_a complete_a in_o its_o essence_n before_o if_o then_o ordination_n do_v give_v essence_n as_o well_o as_o election_n this_o notion_n may_v hold_v else_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o integrum_fw-la consist_v but_o of_o two_o part_n and_o but_o one_o part_n give_v the_o essence_n which_o can_v be_v this_o notion_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v to_o consist_v as_o a_o totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n be_v much_o near_o the_o rule_n then_o to_o have_v election_n alone_o to_o give_v the_o essence_n and_o ordination_n to_o be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n to_o this_o agree_v mr._n jacob_n a_o man_n well_o know_a there_o be_v two_o essential_a part_n of_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n election_n ordination_n 64_o dr._n seaman_n quote_v he_o ans_fw-fr to_o diat_v p._n 64_o so_o the_o call_v be_v a_o totum_fw-la as_o for_o the_o objection_n make_v against_o this_o if_o ordination_n be_v essential_a what_o then_o shall_v become_v of_o our_o minister_n who_o ordination_n be_v not_o legitimate_a this_o i_o have_v speak_v to_o before_o and_o so_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o case_n a_o church_n be_v so_o cast_v by_o providence_n that_o they_o can_v get_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v they_o a_o officer_n for_o those_o who_o be_v of_o this_o opinion_n deny_v the_o people_n power_n to_o ordain_v it_n be_v easy_o yield_v by_o our_o divine_n that_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n which_o ordinary_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v do_v see_v rutherford_n due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n p._n 187._o gillespie_n miscel_n p._n 34._o etc._n etc._n for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v then_o the_o church_n fast_v and_o pray_v for_o such_o a_o one_o who_o be_v elect_v may_v do_v that_o which_o be_v equivalent_a to_o ordination_n though_o it_o be_v not_o ordination_n formalitèr_fw-la the_o strong_a argument_n wherewith_o reverend_a master_n hooker_n prove_v that_o election_n give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n be_v this_o one_o relate_v give_v the_o essential_a constitute_a cause_n to_o another_o but_o pastor_n and_o people_n be_v relate_v ergo_fw-la the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o it_o viz._n that_o ordination_n make_v he_o a_o minister_n before_o and_o election_n do_v but_o appropriate_v he_o this_o mr._n hooker_n deny_v to_o be_v any_o answer_n because_o it_o suppose_v ordination_n to_o antecede_v election_n which_o be_v quite_o cross_a to_o the_o scripture_n pattern_n act._n 6.3.6_o but_o with_o favour_n i_o shall_v humble_o propound_v this_o question_n language_n this_o be_v not_o a_o bare_a supposition_n for_o one_o of_o the_o young_a scholar_n do_v now_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n in_o their_o language_n whether_o ordination_n may_v in_o no_o case_n precede_v election_n as_o now_o in_o this_o case_n suppose_v one_o of_o the_o scholar_n in_o the_o college_n or_o suppose_v four_o or_o more_o have_v learn_v the_o indian_a language_n and_o upon_o examination_n they_o be_v find_v to_o be_v ministerial_o qualify_v suppose_v now_o the_o presbytery_n shall_v solemn_o set_v apart_o these_o young_a man_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o send_v they_o forth_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o indian_n though_o the_o indian_n have_v not_o elect_v they_o here_o indeed_o will_v the_o essential_o of_o a_o officer_n be_v give_v without_o election_n i_o pray_v what_o breach_n of_o rule_n will_v here_o be_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o example_n mention_v act._n 6._o &_o act._n 14._o show_v their_o election_n go_v first_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o where_o there_o be_v church_n but_o here_o be_v none_o beside_o act._n 13.3_o when_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v send_v out_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o gentile_n they_o be_v ordain_v it_o though_o some_o deny_v ordination_n here_o to_o be_v mean_v yet_o many_o learned_a man_n affirm_v it_o when_o no_o election_n do_v precede_v it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v extraordinary_a officer_n but_o what_o then_o though_o this_o do_v not_o make_v those_o young_a man_n extraordinary_a officer_n as_o be_v the_o apostle_n to_o have_v power_n in_o all_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v not_o any_o breach_n of_o rule_n in_o separate_v they_o to_o this_o work_n if_o it_o
the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secundâ—_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n yet_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v numb_a 8.10_o a._n that_o place_n be_v the_o only_a resuge_n but_o 1_o it_o be_v common_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v no_o fair_a argue_v to_o go_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o one_o thing_n we_o will_v have_v and_o when_o another_o come_v to_o the_o same_o polity_n for_o a_o argument_n for_o their_o turn_n now_o to_o debar_v they_o and_o tell_v they_o this_o be_v the_o old_a polity_n either_o leave_n out_o the_o jewish_a polity_n altogether_o or_o else_o give_v other_o leave_v to_o fetch_v argument_n from_o thence_o as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o 2_o if_o you_o will_v go_v to_o that_o polity_n why_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v ordain_v as_o well_o as_o moses_n do_v aaron_n levit._n 8._o 3_o but_o in_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v officer_n aaron_z and_o his_o son_n thence_o if_o that_o be_v a_o rule_n it_o must_v follow_v
proceed_v whether_o the_o people_n obey_v or_o not_o it_o be_v therefore_o their_o revenge_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n in_o discipline_n which_o they_o have_v in_o readiness_n when_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o church_n be_v fulfil_v in_o discern_v and_o approve_v the_o equity_n of_o the_o censure_n which_o the_o apostle_n or_o elder_n have_v declare_v to_o they_o from_o the_o word_n that_o phrase_n discern_v and_o approve_v of_o the_o equity_n needs_o a_o little_a more_o clear_v but_o i_o leave_v they_o however_o this_o reverend_n divine_a seem_v to_o refer_v that_o obedience_n unto_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n by_o the_o word_n go_v before_o his_o exposition_n yet_o that_o hinder_v not_o but_o it_o may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v apply_v to_o their_o officer_n who_o also_o obey_v christ_n for_o that_o phrase_n be_v not_o strange_a to_o have_v people_n obey_v their_o officer_n heb._n 13.17_o o_o bey_z your_o ruler_n there_o may_v be_v some_o thing_n in_o it_o not_o only_o obey_v your_o teacher_n but_o ruler_n when_o they_o rule_v as_o when_o they_o preach_v mr._n norton_n express_v 67._o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p._n 67._o as_o i_o conceive_v how_o the_o brethren_n act_v with_o the_o eldership_n for_o so_o i_o remember_v it_o be_v in_o his_o table_n which_o i_o have_v &_o have_v some_o thought_n to_o have_v print_v they_o but_o in_o that_o great_a fire_n when_o colchester_n be_v besiege_v have_v lend_v they_o to_o a_o friend_n they_o be_v burn_v as_o i_o hear_v part_n judicii_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la jurisdictionis_fw-la quales_fw-la sunt_fw-la fratrum_fw-la examinatio_fw-la dijudicatio_fw-la &_o sententiatio_fw-la causae_fw-la per_fw-la modum_fw-la obedientiae_fw-la presbyterio_n debitae_fw-la 2_o cor._n 10.16_o &_o cap._n 2.9_o mr._n gillespie_n also_o beside_o his_o own_o opinion_n give_v reason_n etc._n aar_n rod_n p._n 289_o etc._n etc._n and_o allege_v divers_a divine_n who_o interpret_v this_o place_n of_o church_n censure_n &_o these_o word_n when_o your_o obedience_n be_v fulfil_v give_v he_o one_o ground_n for_o his_o interpretation_n for_o as_o estius_n and_o novarinus_n explain_v the_o apostle_n reason_n it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o excommunicate_v all_o such_o as_o be_v worthy_a of_o excommunication_n when_o there_o be_v a_o general_a renitency_n in_o the_o church_n but_o still_o we_o observe_v the_o people_n act_v obediential_o to_o their_o officer_n that_o they_o do_v not_o at_o that_o time_n be_v their_o fault_n beside_o if_o excommunication_n be_v the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v where_o ruler_n be_v not_o as_o say_v mr._n cotton_n and_o if_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n can_v express_v no_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n but_o only_o withdraw_v as_o say_v master_n burrough_n than_o the_o people_n have_v ruler_n be_v not_o now_o make_v ruler_n nor_o have_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v indeed_o jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o ruler_n to_o who_o they_o consent_v and_o obey_v government_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o presbytery_n say_v acute_a mr._n norton_n 67_o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p_o 65_o 67_o and_o show_v under_o seven_o particular_n how_o the_o presbyter_n govern_v in_o church_n affair_n and_o so_o in_o this_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n if_o so_o than_o the_o people_n be_v govern_v in_o this_o act_n how_o then_o do_v a_o people_n govern_v act_n in_o reference_n to_o ruler_n govern_v but_o by_o way_n of_o obedience_n so_o that_o to_o i_o there_o appear_v a_o vast_a difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o discipline_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n and_o as_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o people_n though_o the_o minister_n can_v excommunicate_v without_o the_o people_n i_o speak_v a_o few_o word_n to_o this_o point_n here_o because_o i_o will_v spare_v the_o labour_n in_o another_o place_n as_o for_o the_o analogy_n draw_v from_o the_o civil_a power_n the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o civil_a power_n ergo_fw-la the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o church_n power_n for_o the_o antecedent_n i_o leave_v that_o but_o the_o consequence_n i_o shall_v deny_v there_o be_v a_o great_a disproportion_n first_o the_o people_n be_v not_o the_o effect_n of_o their_o magistrate_n or_o follow_v after_o they_o as_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o of_o saul_n but_o the_o fraternity_n quâ_fw-la sic_fw-la be_v the_o effect_n of_o the_o ministry_n the_o apostle_n convert_v and_o after_o they_o the_o minister_n convert_v convert_v be_v but_o to_o make_v the_o people_n such_o for_o who_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v give_v second_o there_o be_v some_o thing_n in_o this_o in_o corporation_n if_o the_o people_n have_v elect_v a_o man_n to_o be_v a_o alderman_n or_o mayor_n if_o he_o refuse_v it_o there_o be_v a_o fine_a set_v upon_o he_o some_o have_v be_v fine_v 20_o li._n some_o more_o according_a as_o the_o corporation_n be_v but_o if_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n will_v choose_v a_o officer_n and_o he_o will_v refuse_v it_o what_o then_o i_o know_v no_o kind_n of_o church_n act_n that_o reach_v he_o this_o show_v there_o be_v something_o more_o in_o civil_a than_o church_n power_n three_o the_o people_n do_v give_v to_o their_o magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o make_v law_n etc._n etc._n for_o their_o good_a but_o the_o church_n give_v no_o power_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o her_o minister_n but_o they_o have_v all_o their_o power_n immediate_o from_o christ_n four_o hence_o the_o people_n may_v limit_v their_o people_n or_o enlarge_v it_o but_o the_o people_n can_v limit_v nor_o enlarge_v the_o power_n the_o minister_n have_v five_o we_o see_v the_o magistrate_n act_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o people_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o england_n but_o minister_n do_v not_o act_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n but_o christ_n as_o say_v mr._n burrough_n and_o mr._n norton_n before_o quote_v more_o may_v be_v produce_v but_o i_o content_v myself_o with_o these_o and_o though_o that_o maxim_n be_v receive_v salus_fw-la populi_fw-la suprema_fw-la lex_fw-la yet_o it_o hinder_v not_o but_o the_o people_n may_v save_v themselves_o though_o they_o be_v not_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n mr._n richardson_n who_o dr._n ames_n and_o mr._n tables_n manuscr_n tables_n hooker_n honour_v much_o and_o follow_v much_o placeth_z the_o power_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v in_o the_o governor_n not_o in_o the_o people_n this_o discourse_n i_o have_v run_v into_o by_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o proposal_n which_o be_v the_o main_a i_o have_v bestow_v more_o line_n about_o it_o the_o rest_n i_o shall_v run_v over_o quick_o come_v we_o now_o to_o the_o second_o the_o second_o proposal_n may_v be_v this_o 48._o the_o second_o proposal_n no_o congregational_a divine_a dare_v put_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n in_o the_o explicitenesse_n of_o the_o covenant_n but_o these_o do_v survey_v pare_v first_o p._n 47_o 48._o we_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n in_o every_o particular_a church_n this_o we_o judge_v to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n and_o we_o can_v join_v with_o a_o church_n without_o it_o a._n many_o people_n have_v take_v up_o this_o by_o the_o end_n a_o covenant_n be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n understand_v it_o of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n but_o they_o know_v not_o what_o a_o form_n be_v if_o they_o do_v they_o will_v be_v more_o wary_a than_o they_o be_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o congregationall_a man_n say_v from_o who_o you_o take_v up_o this_o word_n 1_o mr._n hooker_n say_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n preserve_v the_o true_a nature_n of_o the_o true_a church_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o implicit_a covenant_n be_v when_o in_o their_o practice_n they_o do_v that_o whereby_o they_o make_v themselves_o engage_v to_o walk_v in_o such_o a_o society_n according_a to_o such_o rule_n of_o government_n which_o be_v exercise_v among_o they_o and_o so_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o but_o do_v not_o make_v any_o verbal_a profession_n thereof_o thus_o the_o people_n in_o the_o parish_n in_o england_n when_o there_o be_v a_o minister_n put_v upon_o they_o by_o the_o patron_n or_o bishop_n they_o constant_o hold_v they_o to_o the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o people_n in_o such_o a_o place_n attend_v all_o the_o ordinance_n there_o use_v and_o the_o dispensation_n of_o the_o minister_n so_o impose_v upon_o they_o etc._n etc._n by_o such_o action_n they_o declare_v that_o by_o their_o practice_n which_o other_o hold_v forth_o by_o public_a profession_n thus_o far_o mr._n hooker_n so_o mr._n norton_n resp_n ad_fw-la apollon_n p._n 22.28_o so_o the_o confession_n of_o church_n disc_n by_o the_o synod_n of_o new_a england_n 2_o you_o have_v a_o nationall_n covenant_n a_o solemn_a one_o i_o think_v it_o be_v strong_a enough_o if_o you_o
he_o can_v see_v more_o holy_a and_o able_a than_o himself_o and_o hence_o he_o fear_v himself_o and_o conceive_v such_o man_n be_v so_o holy_a and_o near_a to_o god_n i_o fear_v he_o may_v reveal_v that_o to_o they_o which_o he_o conceal_v from_o i_o now_o then_o if_o you_o can_v bring_v we_o man_n who_o express_v all_o these_o and_o walk_v true_o by_o these_o rule_n you_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o go_v to_o the_o state_n to_o get_v a_o act_n for_o toleration_n of_o tender_a conscience_n for_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o church_n will_v be_v very_o tender_a of_o such_o god_n seldom_o leave_v these_o to_o drink_v in_o any_o vile_a error_n if_o for_o a_o time_n they_o be_v mislead_v he_o will_v discover_v his_o mind_n to_o they_o ere_o long_o i_o be_o assure_v but_o alas_o how_o far_o be_v our_o people_n from_o these_o thing_n i_o do_v not_o rehearse_v they_o over_o again_o but_o either_o let_v these_o be_v disprove_v to_o be_v no_o rule_n to_o judge_v by_o or_o if_o they_o be_v there_o be_v not_o ten_o as_o i_o say_v of_o such_o scarce_o to_o be_v find_v in_o england_n who_o separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n and_o have_v betake_v themselves_o to_o their_o private_a house_n yea_o if_o we_o go_v to_o our_o congregationall_a church_n and_o examine_v these_o who_o plead_v for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n we_o shall_v hardly_o find_v these_o rule_n observe_v the_o sum_n be_v you_o see_v if_o indeed_o you_o be_v right_o conscientious_a man_n and_o lead_v by_o a_o pure_a conscience_n in_o the_o point_n wherein_o you_o differ_v you_o shall_v have_v that_o liberty_n that_o christ_n will_v have_v allow_v you_o and_o none_o will_v domineer_v over_o your_o conscience_n i_o know_v of_o nothing_o more_o can_v be_v allege_v but_o i_o think_v i_o have_v take_v in_o all_o that_o be_v bring_v against_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n it_o may_v be_v some_o will_v be_v apt_a to_o cast_v in_o this_o that_o the_o minister_n be_v no_o friend_n to_o the_o state_n ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o shall_v not_o stay_v to_o give_v any_o answer_n to_o this_o more_o than_o thus_o 1_o the_o separatist_n be_v before_o this_o government_n be_v erect_v to_o be_v sure_o the_o leaven_n of_o all_o be_v lay_v if_o not_o all_o actual_o separate_v 2_o where_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o be_v friend_n to_o the_o state_n it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o they_o separate_v for_o all_o that_o 3_o matter_n of_o state_n differ_v from_o the_o church_n matter_n and_o they_o be_v also_o very_o intricate_a and_o dark_a especial_o as_o some_o conceive_v the_o covenant_n and_o protestation_n have_v be_v take_v before_o therefore_o in_o intricate_a thing_n more_o time_n shall_v have_v be_v give_v till_o you_o have_v see_v god_n tie_v a_o knot_n upon_o thing_n 4_o i_o know_v that_o many_o minister_n have_v not_o hang_v off_o so_o from_o the_o state_n but_o that_o they_o see_v such_o separatist_n to_o be_v wink_v at_o they_o think_v too_o much_o obj._n but_o you_o will_v say_v grant_v all_o this_o that_o their_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a why_o can_v you_o go_v on_o in_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n set_v up_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n and_o let_v these_o alone_a how_o do_v these_o hinder_v your_o work_n from_o go_v on_o comfortable_o ans_fw-fr if_o their_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a schism_n schism_n be_v esteem_v a_o great_a evil_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n those_o little_a matter_n in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n not_o comparable_a to_o we_o how_o do_v the_o apostle_n speak_v against_o they_o so_o in_o the_o age_n after_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o august_n contra_fw-la permeni_n etc._n etc._n irenae_n say_v nulla_fw-la ab_fw-la eye_n tanta_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la correptio_fw-la quanta_fw-la est_fw-la schismitis_fw-la pernicies_fw-la l._n 4._o c._n 26._o so_o our_o divine_n of_o late_a against_o the_o papist_n to_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o schism_n have_v labour_v strong_o but_o out_v do_v but_o fancy_n ground_n and_o 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not_o stand_v with_o sound_a conversion_n for_o no_o law_n must_v be_v to_o awaken_v man_n and_o show_v they_o their_o vile_a condition_n natural_o work_n of_o faith_n be_v easy_a teach_v no_o duty_n but_o all_o christ_n as_o if_o man_n can_v true_o teach_v christ_n and_o no_o duty_n these_o thing_n speak_v enough_o against_o they_o but_o i_o answer_v further_o if_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a man_n will_v but_o join_v together_o as_o they_o may_v if_o they_o will_v and_o set_v upon_o that_o work_n they_o may_v do_v something_o notwithstanding_o these_o person_n but_o yet_o they_o can_v comfortable_o hold_v so_o long_o as_o these_o be_v tolerate_v quest_n why_o what_o harm_n have_v these_o do_v or_o will_v they_o do_v ans_fw-fr i_o shall_v tell_v you_o under_o several_a particular_n 1_o they_o have_v much_o weaken_v the_o hand_n of_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o work_n they_o be_v once_o the_o joy_n of_o their_o minister_n their_o crown_n and_o have_v they_o hold_v close_o 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