of Yorke and the churche of Bangor had some diuersitie in their maner of seruing God and yet you will saie thei were all one Popishe Churche But to the purpose you recite more names then there be diuersities of opinions For Zwinglius and Caluine in the matter of the Sacrament whiche you shoote at are all one and Luther differeth from them And yet the difference is not so great but that thei bee all of one Catholike Churche because thei agree in the onely foundation Iesus Christe and in all opinions that are necessary to Saluation although Luther in his opinion of the Sacramente as a man was deceiued And that diuersities of opinions so longe as the principall groundes of faithe bee obserued vncorrupted doeth not make diuersitie of churches you maie easily see by this example S. Cypriā and all the Churches of Affrica were in this error that such as were baptised by heretikes should be baptised again which was a very perilous errour Cornelius Stephanus the Bishops of Rome with the Churches of Europe were in the contrary opinion And yet no man euer refused S. Cypriane to bee a member of the Catholike churche nor iudged the churches of Affrica that followed his errour to bee of any other thē of the vniuersall church of Christ emong whom were many martyres and godly men which liued died in the same error Now cōpare Cypriane Luther the one erring in the Sacrament of Baptisme the other in the Sacramente of the Supper if the errour of th' one did not separate hym from the communiō of the catholike church no more cā the error of the other Whiche thing if it were well weighed would remoue that stōblyng blocke that troubleth many weake persones but can hinder no learned man cōcernyng the controuersie of Luther and Zwinglius The third reason is that we are departed from the Churche of Geneua because we ascribe supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall matters to the Quéenes highnes Firste we must bee bolde to tell you that as we reuerence and honour all particulare Churches where true religion is established so we doe not grounde our self vpon either the opinion or custome of any one but onely vpon the worde of God and so farre foorthe to followe euery one as thei come neare to the same rule But whereas you would sette that excellente godly Churche of Geneua at variaunce with vs aboute the supremacie your childishe quarrellyng shall easily appeare to all menne You alledge Caluine againste vs in twoo places one in his Institutions an other in his Comentarie of the Prophet Amos. A man in deede from whom we would bee lothe to dissente excepte it were for a greate cause A manne of suche godlie learnyng and profounde knoweledge in diuinitie as all the Papistes that euer were are not worthie to carrie his bookes after hym But before I aunswer you I muste admonishe you that either your copies whiche came to my handes were verie muche corrupted or els you haue recited those places by hearesaie rather then by your owne obseruatiō Your copies sendeth me to the viij Chapiter of his Institutions namyng no booke and to the fowerth Chapiter of Amos whereas that you speake of the one place is in the fowerth boke and twelue Chapiter of his Institutions the other in the seuen Chapiter of Amos. So that in deede it was more labour to seeke your places then to make aunswere to them Concerning the firste I meruaile you were not ashamed to alledge Caluine againste vs where he saieth that Kynges and Princes are subiecte to the discipline of the Churche as Theodosius was content to be excommunicated by saincte Ambrose for the murther he had committed in Thessalonica which none of vs denieth and doe not remember how substauncially he proueth that godlie Princes haue aucthoritie and ought to maintain true religion by lawes decrees and iudgementes whiche is all the supreme gouernemente that wee ascribe to the Quéenes highnes And as for the place of Caluine vpon Amos the truthe is this Caluine findeth fault not with kyng Hēry but with those that did ascribe that title vnto hym and sheweth for what reason he misliked the same Not that he denied his lawfull aucthoritie whiche was meant by that title of all his godly and true subiectes but because Steuen Gardener bishop of Winchester by false vnderstandyng thereof declared that he vnderstode nothing therby but the tyrannie whiche the Pope vsurpeth ouer the churche to be translated vnto the kyng And therfore at a solemne cōference at Ratisbone in Germanie after the Popes aucthoritie by acte of Parliament was abolished out of the realme he defended all Popishe religion whiche remained vnreformed to bee good and godlie because it was established by the kings aucthoritie who was supreme head of the churche He disputed not by reasons neither cared he for the testimonies of scriptures but saied it was in the kynges power to abrogate all Lawes and establishe what he thought good in the churche as to forbidde Priestes marriage to forbidde laie menne the vse of the Cuppe in the Churche and all other suche matters he saied were in the kynges aucthoritie This he saied of the Kynges power abroade and howe he abused that noble Prince at home to make the Acte of sixe Articles and other thynges of like effect there be many yet aliue that can remember But seeyng this title of supremacie dooeth so muche offende you I praie you lette me demaunde one question of you Who did first inuent it here in England Or who did first ascribe it to kyng Henry Was it not the whole Popishe Cleargie of Englande when thei were caste in the Premunire for mainteinyng the power Legantine of Cardinall Wolsey and submittyng theim selues vnto the Kynge they flattered hym with that title and offered hym a greate somme of money for their pardon as witnesseth Halle and Grafton in their histories and ther be yet aliue many that can remēber it So that if there were any faulte in it you should blame them and not vs for it For so farforthe as beyng rightly vnderstoode it declareth the lawfull power of the Prince wee did and doe yelde vnto it but not in Steuen Gardiners sence whiche Caluin in the place by you alledged doeth cōfute After this you require vs to shewe you a Churche where vnto you maie resorte whiche hath continued euen since Christ whiche if it can not bee shewed you conclude in th' ende that Christ had no churche or els our Churche is not Christes Churche Againe where our Church was fiftie or sixtie yeres agon If a manne had asked of Elias where the churche of God was in his tyme he could not haue made aunswere and yet God had his Churche in Elias tyme The Churche is not alwayes apparaunte to the iyes of the blynde worlde in whiche she is a straunger but is compelled sometymes to flie into the wildernesse out of the sight of men by the persecutiō of the deuill and his members as
called Especially whē you pretend to geue it the name whiche commonly it beareth for you are not ignorante that it is called the booke of Common praier and not the Common booke of praier But a man maie easely and peraduenture truely gesse why you refused to cal it the boke of common praier leaste any man should conceiue by the onely name that common praier which is so necessarie for the Churche of Christe a forme whereof that booke conteineth is altogether wantyng in your Popishe Churche where in your Missalles Processionalles Hymnalles Grailes Antiphonalls and Pontificalls are not conteined common praiers to the edification of all the churche but idle and vnprofitable ceremonies to the mainteinaunce of ignoraunce and superstition The Papiste The first consideration is because the saide seruis booke was condemned as hereticall and schismaticall Anno domini 1553. both by the clergie and cōuocation of this realme and by the nobilitie and commons of the same by al whose consentes ther passed an acte of Parliament for the repeale therof Beside that Cranmer Ridley and Latimer the chief aucthours and composers of the saied boke were therfore openly condemned by the Churche and Lawes of this realme suffered the paines of death in Oxforde S. Paule in his Epistle willed the hebrues to haue in remembrance their Bishoppes which preached vnto them the woorde of God and diligently to obserue and looke vpon the ende of their liues and conuersation The aunswere The first consideration cōteineth two causes of your refusal the one because the booke of Seruice was repealed by Acte of Parliament the other for that Cranmer Ridley and Latimer were burned at Oxforde for it To the first I aunswere that if you accompt the aucthoritie of the Parliament of force to condempne it why doe you not acknowledge th'aucthoritie of the same in establishyng it for anno 1551. by all the states of the realme that boke was allowed and appoincted to bee vsed Also by diuerse Actes of Parliamente in the tyme of our soueraigne Ladies reigne established and cōfirmed But it is no hard matter to gather your traiterous meanyng whiche is common to you with all them of your religion You accoumpte no actes of Parliament passed in the tyme of kyng Edward or Quéene Elizabeth to be of any aucthoritie beyng confirmed by the roiall assent of those whom you esteme to be no lawfull Princes seyng your father the Pope hath pronounced sentence of depriuation against them Your seconde reason I will tourne vpon your owne necke Seyng Cranmer Ridley and Latimer did so constauntly suffer death for the confirmation of that doctrine whiche thei hadde taught it is a good argumente that thei dissembled not with vs but vttered that truthe vnto vs wherein as thei liued so thei were content to dye The text of the Apostle to the Hebres 13. you applie verie straungely as though wee should thincke well of none that suffreth death by martyrdom wheras the Apostle meaneth cleane contrary and exhorteth the Iewes to followe the faithe of them the ende of whose conuersation thei had séen to be agreable to their doctrine who as thei had preached diligētly so did thei ende their liues by tormentes in the same confession constauntely and patiently The Papiste The seconde consideration is that the saied booke so vniuersally condemned by all degrees of men here in this realme was receiued and brought in againe only by the nobilitie and cōmons of this realme cleane contrary to the whole mindes of our Clergie no one person in the Parliamente did giue his consente thereunto Besides that the whole conuocation did exhibite their boke to the contrarie VVherin the shepe taking vpon theim to establishe this boke contrarie to the learnyng and conscience of their shepherdes thei haue doen against the expresse wordes of our sauiour Christ who in describing the office of good shepherde and the duetie of good shepe saied that a good shepherde muste knowe his sheepe and his sheepe muste knowe hym heare his voice and followe hym And the Apostle S. Paule in his Epistle Cap. 13. willed the Hebrues to obey their shepherdes and spirituall gouernours and to submitte themselues vnto theim for thei doe watch euen as men whiche muste geue accompte for their soules Obey them therfore saieth S. Paule that they maie do it with ioie and not with grief The aunswere Your seconde consideration is determinable by suche as are skilfull in the lawes of this realme what persones muste concurre in the Parliament that it may be an Acte of Parliamente and I doubte not but the matter was so ordered by the iudgemente of them that had knowledge as was for the honour and wealthe of the realme But if any errour had been committed at that tyme you speake of it was since by all three estates in Parliament redressed the same booke of seruice by their aucthoritie being confirmed But whereas you complaine that the Shepe in that firste Parliament tooke vpon thē against their shepherdes I aunswer naie but the Shepherdes againste the Shepebiters for your Cleargie consisted all of Wolues and not of Shepherdes wherefore it was the duetie of the Prince with the nobles and senatours of that Parliamente to deliuer the Shepe out of their cruell tyrānie and to banishe and remoue all suche raueinous beastes frō the flocke And touchyng the booke you saie thei exhibited of what credite would you haue it to bee when thei so shamefully refused conference before the moste parte of the Parliamente vpon a friuolous pretence in Westminster churche At whiche time al wise menne sawe that their cause was naught whiche durste not abide the triall in the open light The Papiste The thirde consideration is that it is prohibited by the Canons of the apostles and by the generall caunselles also that a christian man shoulde not communicate neither in Sacramentes nor yet in commō praiers with Heritikes and Schismatikes As it appeareth in the tenth Canon and in the seconde Canon of the counsell holden at Antioche It was decreed there that it was not lawful to communicate with excōmunicate persones nor to enter into any house nor to praie with thē nor lawfull to receiue them that are excommunicate out of one churche into another churche And in the coūsel holdē at Laodicea it was prohibited there that the christiā men should enter into the churches or churche yerdes of the heretikes there to praie with them and in the 33. Canon of the same counsell the like prohibition is there expressed for praier with Schismatikes And in the 4. counsell holden at Carthage Canon 73. it was decreed that christian men should nether praie nor singe with Heretikes And who so euer did praie singe or communicate with any excōmunicate person whether he were of the Clergie or of the Laitie shoulde be thereby excommunicated An example we reade therefore how the christian men at Constantinople would not cōmunicate with the Arianes neither in Sacramentes nor yet in commō praiers notwithstādyng that
we meane by the primitiue Churche I putte you out of doubte that none of vs doeth attribute vnto her suche long limites as you doe in your argumentes gathered out of the Doctours where you alledge the seconde counsaill of Nice as a determination of the primitiue churche whiche was holden almoste eight hūdred yeres after Christe Of whiche thing you were not ignoraunt but you thought it was sufficiente to fill vnlearned eares with greate blastes voide of all reason or truthe Wherefore when wee appeale to the Primitiue Churche wee meane the Churche of the Apostles and their successours so longe as thei continue in the doctrine of the Apostles whereof triall is to be made by the Canonicall writynges of the Apostles That wheras you accuse vs for departyng frō your churche as though we were of no Churche wee defende our selues to be of the true churche seyng wée retaine the faithe and doctrine of the primitiue Churche whiche without all controuersie was the true churche Now as I haue shewed you what we accompte to bee the primitiue churche so muste I declare in what thynges wee are bounde to consente and agree with the same For whiche purpose we must marke this difference whiche I suppose no Papist is so farre paste shame to deny namely that in the primitiue Churche some thynges were necessarie and immutable some thynges againe were temporall and variable Of the firste sorte is the doctrine and Sacramentes of the latter sorte are Ceremonies and politike constitutions To the doctrine no manne maie adde no man maie diminishe no manne maie alter any thyng thereof The Sacramentes beyng as Augustine calleth theim the visible woorde bee of the same nature with the doctrine On the other side Ceremonies and publike constitutions mate bee reteined or chaunged as thei make beste for edificatiō for order and for comelines And of this latter sorte are all those thinges whiche you alledge in which we differ from the primitiue churche But yet so longe as we holde still the same faithe and the same Sacramentes whiche are lefte to vs by the primitiue Churche all reasonable men will iudge that notwithstandyng your reasons wee haue suche agreance with the primitiue Churche as may proue vs to be members of the same For it is the vnitie of faithe and Sacramētes not of Ceremonies and constitutions that ioigneth vs vnto the bodie of Christe as witnesseth sainct Paule to the Ephesi iiij One faithe one baptisme one god c. Now let vs particularly consider your tenne differences The Papiste First it is written howe the beleuers in the Primitiue churche had all thinges in common And no one man did reckon the thing that he did possesse to be his owne or priuate The aunswere Firste it it is a sporte to see howe to make a shewe of a greate multitude of dishes and to fill vp the noumber of tenne you diuide one matter into fower quarters whiche is of the cōmunitie of al thinges that was in the primitiue Churche whiche should haue been serued all in one mease but for fashiōs fake That thei had all thynges common one while in Hierusalem it is very true but that thei had so alwaies and in all places it is most false for saincte Paule exhorteth the Corinthians to giue almose to the poore liberally j. Cor. xvj and he willeth Timothe that he charge thē that be riche in this worlde to be ready to distribute vnto that necessitie of their brethren j. Timoth. vj. which neded not all if all thynges had been common This was therefore a variable order and constitution whiche continued but a shorte tyme neither was it profitable but onely then when the noumber of the disciples was but small in comparison and liued all in one place at Hierusalē The Papiste Seconde in the Primitiue Church suche of the beleuers whiche were possessors of Landes and Houses soulde theym and powred it doune before the Apostles but the beleuers of this oure late reformed Churche are not come to that perfection nor yet are aminded so to doe The aunswere This is all one with the former for how could thei haue had all thynges common if euery man had reteined his houses and landes to his priuate vse And yet no manne was compelled to this communitie for Peter saieth plainlie to Ananias that he neded not to haue sold his land neither to haue brought the price but of his free will. But whereas you accoumpt it a perfection to haue all thynges cōmon I muste bée bolde to tell you ye sauour of Anabaptistrie for although it was then expediente for thal tyme emong a fewe yet it were not tollerable to bee vsed as a pefection emong all the churche of Christ But would bryng a meere confusion and disorder of all thinges beside that it is vnpossible that all Christian men in all places should haue all thynges common The Papiste Thirdly in the primitiue churche Christes Apostles and their successours were chiefe gouernours of the beleuers and of such goods as they had in common amongest theim diuision vnto euery manne was made therof by the appoinctment of the Apostles according as they thought it nedefull or necessarie And because Ananias the husbande of Saphira wente aboute to kepe backe a portion of that comon mony for the which they sould their Landes the Apostle S. Peter did strike theim bothe with sodaine death But in this our reformed Englishe church beside that the beleuers are at no suche appoinctment of the Bishoppes and successors of the Apostles they doe by their lawes spoile theim of all they haue by takyng from them so muche of their temporall landes and so muche of their goods for firste fructes tenthes and subsidies as they liste And therfore in this poinct it hath no agreans with the order of the Primitiue church The aunswere The Apostles kepte not that gouernement long in their handes but committed it ouer to the Deacons as it is declared in the sixte chapiter of the Actes by which it is manifeste that it was no perpetuall order whiche in so shorte tyme was altered For in suche thynges the Churche maie institute and chaunge as often as it shall seme expediente But whereas you charge our Prince to bee a spoiler of the churche by withdrawyng the landes and gooddes thereof by takyng firste fruictes tenthes and subsidies you shewe your self what an honest subiecte your are We for our partes acknowledge that it is in the Princes power to increase or diminishe the stipend of the ecclesiasticall ministers as shal be thought expedient and that it is our dueties to paie all suche taxes tributes and subsidies as by lawfull aucthoritie are laied vpon vs But I meruaile why you should accuse our princes for taking of subsidies as though Popishe princes doe not take subsidies of their Cleargies also and moste of all when the Pope who hath no aucthoritie to demaunde one penie hath extorted suche infinite sommes of money for annates firste fruictes palles pardons and suche other
abroade of Christe to preache and woorke miracles vsed by the same ceremonie to heale many that were sick But now whē the gifte of healyng continueth not in the Churche it were a verie ridiculous thyng to vse that Ceremonie And as for your extreme vnction by no meanes can be accompted that vsage of the Apostles for you anoint none almost but suche as are past hope of recouerie so farre you are frō restoring any to healthe by your beggerly ceremonie The Papiste Eight in the Primitiue churche we dooe reade in the nintinth chapiter of the actes of the Apostles how vpon a certain plague there made vpon seuen bretheren the sonnes of one Sceba by a man that was possessed with the Diuelle many of the people whiche did beleue in Iesus Christe theruppon came and made vpen confession of their sinnes and made declaration of their priuate actes and dedes whiche the reformatour of this our Englishe Churche will none of by the deniall of Sacramente of penance and all the partes therof The Aunswere It is straunge to see vnto how narrow shiftes you are driuen to make vp a number of argumentes Haue you nothing but open confession to proue your priuate and auriculer confessiōs God be thanked ther are many also in our churche that make open confession and declaration of their former life led in blindenes and superstition of their falling in time of persecutiō and other like offences but what is this to your popishe Sacramente of auricular cōfession or what likelihode hath it with the same Firste the faithfull bringyng forthe certeine examples of their actions acknowledge how they were seduced by the deuill before they embraced the faith the popes law compelleth men to reherse all their deedes wordes and thoughtes These men made their cōfession once the popes law requireth eche man to confesse euery yere once at least these came forth to this confession of their owne accorde the pope compelleth all men vppon necessitie of saluation Againe the text saieth that many came but not all the popes lawe excepteth none these Ephesians made open confessiō before al the church as you your selfe acknowledge the pope commaundeth euery man to whisper his confession into a préestes eare Let al men iudge what agrement this their confession hath with your auricular confession And wheras you saie we deny the Sacrament of penaunce and all the partes therof The truth is we preache repentance as we are commaunded by the woorde of God but no Sacrament of penance dooe wee finde in the Scripture what you meane by the partes of penance I cannot well tell but if it be those three that bee commonly sette forthe in writers of your dunsical diuinitie contrition of harte confession of mouth and satisfactiō of worke you shall here what wée thinke of theim Thei are suche as a verie limme of the Deuill maie performe and yet goe to the Deuill when he hath dooen Example in Iudas Iscarioth who hadde contrition of harte as the Scripture teacheth when he was sorie for his facte And he made confession of mouthe to the priestes when he saied I haue synned in betraiyng of innocente bloode Finally he made satisfaction of woorke when he restored the thirtie siluerlynges whiche he receiued for his treason And when he had so dooen wente and hanged hym self in despaire You see that Iudas lacked none of youre three partes of penaunce but he lacked faithe without the whiche all contrition confession and outward satisfaction is nothyng auailable And therefore you teach a verie wholsome kinde of penaunce in whiche faithe in the bloode of Christe is no parte at all Neither is it necessarely required thereto by your owne doctrine For Sacramentes you teach giue grace ex opere operato that is of the woorke wroughte so a manne dooeth not withstande the receiuyng of them whiche you call ponere obicem And therefore penaunce beyng one of your Sacramentes and absolution of sinnes maie be receiued without faithe in the merites of christ Therfore kepe your penaunce for your frendes we can not skill of suche Sacramentes The Papiste Ninth the order and maner of the Primitiue churche was to celebrate the Sacramente of christes bodie after supper as it apeareth both by the example geuen therof by our sauiour Christe and by the testimonies of the Apostle sainct Paule which they doe not obserue nor followe The aunswere You are not able to proue that any suche order was established in the primitiue Churche that the Sacrament of the bodie and bloode of Christe should bée receiued after Supper Although it was by our Sauiour institited after his laste Supper Not appoinctyng any tyme in whiche it ought of necessitie to bee receiued no more then the Sacrament of Baptisme is bounde either to Mornyng or Euenyng daie or night or to any tyme of the daie in whiche it was firste ordeined And whereas you alledge the aucthoritie of saincte Paule for your purpose you doe hym greate wronge for he reproueth the Corinthians for confoundyng drunken and prophane bankettes with the holie Sacrament of the Lordes Supper i. Cor. xj And as for the tyme place and other like circumstances perteinyng to the ministration of the Sacramentes thei are in the discretiō of the churche to appoinct as thei maie beste serue for order comelinesse and edification But ouer the substaunce of the Sacramentes the Churche hath no power as to take the cuppe from the laie people whiche none but the churche of Antichrist would presume to doe The Papiste Tenth in the Primitiue Churche it was decreed by a solemne law holden by the Apostles of Christe at Hierusalem that the christen men men shoulde absteine à sanguine suffocato from blood and all suffocate thinges whiche our reformatours performe not nor will admit any fasting from meates and drinkes at all by the whiche testimonies and proues gathered out of the diuine scriptures howe plaine a matter it is that they purpose not in their reformation to reduce vs to the Primitiue Churche of Christe when therewith besides they haue no agreaunce they doe all thinges cleane to the contrary like as ye haue partlie hearde by profes made therfore out of the diuine scriptures and shal heareafter more at large by the writinges and testimonies of the moste best learned and grauest fathers that euer were in Christes Churche The aunswere The Apostles in that Counsaile made not a perpetuall lawe to binde any mannes conscience but onely a temporall decree to auoide offence of the weake Iewes who were accustomed to abstaine from suche thinges and this decree as occasion serued was broken and altered But where you saie wee can admitte no fastyng from meates and drinkes at all You shall vnderstande that we compte it no fastyng to abstaine from one kinde of meate and to fille your beallie with an other kinde as to refraine fleshe and to glutte your stomack with fishe Or as the Maniches abstained from liuyng creatures and riotted in fruictes spices and delicate
the Arians did agree with the Christen menne in theim bothe as in all Sacramentes and in all poinctes of praiyng sauing that the Arians did sing Gloria patri in filio and the Christian menne Gloria patri filio c. And therfore and for that onely poinct Ihō Chrysostome then beyng Bishop of Constantinople did appoincte vnto the christian men a seperate place and maner of praier from them as it appeareth in the sixth of the Historie Ecclesiastike And therefore the notable doctour S. Augustine doth conclude on thys wise saiyng that they shall not communicate in Sacramētes with vs whose doctrine we cannot approue and allowe The aunswere Your third consideration standeth vppon a foolishe fallation of Sophistrie called petitio principij whiche is whē a man will take that as true whiche his aduersarie will not graunte hym As you doe in this your argument where you take that for a true principle whiche you shall neuer be able to proue namely that we are Heretikes and Schismatikes And so you committe double folie Firste in prouyng that so diligentely whiche no manne will deny whiche is that a manne ought not to communicate in religion with Heretikes and secondly in bringing no proofe at all of that which all your aduersaries wil deny namely that thei are Heretikes or Schismatikes For you must first prooue that thei are suche before you can proue that you ought to auoide their societie The Papiste The fowerth consideration is that the receiuyng of this new booke of seruice is a condemnation of the olde wherby is taken away 5. of the. 7. Sacramentes the reall presence of Christes body in the Sacramente of the alter the sacrifice of the masse many traditions of the Apostles as the holiyng of the Fonte oile and Chrisma in Baptisme and Confirmation the making of the signe of the Crosse praiers for the deade and vnto sainctes All sacramentall and godly cerimonies frequented in the vniuersal churche of Christe and brougt into this realme with the faithe of Christe by S. Augustine and here by hym established as suer signes and tokens of christian faieth like as the holy S. Bede witnesseth in his firste boke de gestis Anglorum in the 25.29.30 chapiters beside that all the foresaide thinges haue been alwaie approued vsed and allowed throughout the vniuersal church of christ And therfore saieth S. Augustine all these thinges whiche haue been receiued in the vniuersall Churche of Christe and approued by the vse and consente therof ought not to be ouerthrowen nor yet to be chaūged by the iudgemente of one priuate person be his learnyng and liuyng neuer so good nor yet by the Bishoppes of any one prouince or countrie when thereby they shoulde breake the vnitie of Gods spirite whiche is the chief treasure in his Churche commended by our sauiour Christe vnto his Apostles wishynge and praiynge the same vnitie to be amongest theim whiche was betwixt him and God Ioan 17 the father The Apostle S. Paule tought the Corinthians aboue all thinges to obserue this vnitie and willed the Romaines that with one minde and one mouth they shoulde glorifie god And in the Epistle to the Ephesians he besought theim most entirely to obserue this vnitie Again S. Augustine saieth these thinges whiche the vniuersall churche doth teache therfore are to be obserued and kepte of all menne because the churche which is the spouse of Christ hath the full aucthoritie of her husband Christ and suche gouernement also of the holy ghost that she cannot consent but to true thinges nor she cannot commaunde but onely suche thinges whiche are both holy holsome and good And farther the same S. Augustine saieth that in the ministratiō of the Sacramentes and in the manner of praiyng vsed of Preestes there must be an vniformitie obserued in Christes catholike Churche that by their Lawe and maner of praiyng there may be established the lawe of beleuyng And lest that the lawe and maner of praiyng being chaunged may also bring foorthe a chaunge and alteration of faieth like as it hath so proued in thys realme Beside that S. Ambrose doth thinke that there can not bee the faieth where Schisme is for albeit that schismatikes may haue faieth towardes God yet they cannot haue faieth towarde the Churche of God whom they suffer to bee dismembred and discerped in peeces For wheras our sauiour Christe suffered for his Churche and the Churche is the mysticall bodie of Christe how therfore may thei haue faith in christ by whom his Passion is made frustrate and his mysticall bodie drawen in peeces And therefore woulde not we shoulde chaunge an order set or a custome of Christes churche For albeit saieth he the reason or cause of a custome may be sought for yet must it be so sought for that the custome thereby be not infirmed or broken for the searche may not bee made vnto destruction but vnto aedification wherby thou maist better obserue the custome when thou arte assured of the cause and reason therof I do praise thee saieth Tertuliane whiche firste doeth beleue the custome to be obserued before it hath learned the cause and reason why and wherfore The aunswere In your fowerth consideration you should haue likewise considered that suche thynges as are graunted of bothe partes nede small proofe and that those matters whiche are in controuersie should be substancially cōfirmed As for example How necessarie vnitie is for the Churche of Christe no manne doubteth so it bee in truthe and not in falshed for there is vnitie emong the mooste wicked but not in truthe and honestie On the other side that there be fiue sacramentes more then the boke alloweth that there is a carnall presence in the Sacrament of the Lordes bodie and bloude that there is or ought to be a Sacrifice in the masse ye bring not one worde of proof Concernyng Ceremonies whiche you call traditions of the Apostles you saie in deede a little although to little purpose and yet so confusely and out of all good order that you seme rather to confounde then to instructe your simple reader for what an hochpotte is this in the middes of your Sacramentes and Sacramentalles to choppe in praiers for the deade and inuocation of sainctes whiche bée articles of doctrine and not Ceremoniall obseruations Againe when you haue rehersed by name diuers Ceremonies as oile and chrisme in Baptisme your maner of confirmation the signe of the Crosse and all other your Sacramentalls and Ceremonies you bryng in certain broken and vnperfecte sentences of Doctours whiche speake generally of Ceremonies vsed in the churche in their age and doe not shew that your Ceremonies were vsed then in suche maner as you vse them now which is a meere mockerie of your readers For wheras you doe comprehende thē all vnder the name of Traditions of the Apostles if you be a man of suche learning as you would seme to be I dare saie in your behalfe you will bee ashamed to come to triall of this poincte that
good that pictures ought not to bée in the Churche leaste that thyng whiche is worshipped and honoured should bee painted on the walles To conclude that whiche you alledge out of Beda concernyng Dan Augustine the Monke I will aunswere by the aucthoritie of sainct Augustine the Bishoppe who in his boke De consensu Euāgelistarum libr. i. Capit. 10. Speakyng of certaine Heathen aduersaries whiche noumbred Paule emong the twelue Apostles that were with Christe while he liued writeth in these woordes Credo quod pluribus locis simul eos cum illo pictos viderunt quià merita Petri Pauli etiam propter eundem passionis diem celebrius solemniter Roma commendat Sic omnino errare meruerunt qui Christum Apostolos eius non in sanctis codicibus sed in pictis parietibus quaesierunt I beleue that in many places thei sawe theim painted together with hym because the Citie of Rome commendeth the worthinesse of Peter and Paule more notably and solemnely because of the same daie of their sufferyng So altogether thei were worthie to bée deceiued whiche sought Christ and his Apostles not in the holie scriptures but in painted walles And so all thei that followed your Augustines superstitions were iustely blinded and deceiued because thei sought not Christ in the scriptures but in painted Tables whiche is the punishemente due for Idolatrie as sainct Paule testifieth Roma j. The Papiste Eight in the primatiue church the maner of fastyng was merueilous streight in so much that Faustus Manicheus 1300. yeres agoe did taxe the christiane men that they should in tyme of Lente absteine from all meate that is spoken of by the Apostle S. Paule in the first to Timothy the fowerth Chapiter And did blaspheme the doyng and teachyng of Christes churche to be doctrinam daemoniorum But Ierome vpon the same place doth make answere like as sainct Augustine in manie places that the church in their fasting to absteine from meate not therby to condemne any kynde of meate as Manichaeus did but for penance and to subdue the carnall concupiscens and suche other like good purposes ▪ And farther for the streight fasting in the primitiue Churche S. Iheronime writeth ad Nepotianum Epiphanius in Anchorato whiche is nowe thought of these reformatours to be superfluous and folishe and therfore they mind not to reduce and bring vs to the order of the primitiue churche The aunswere Concernyng Fastyng I haue spoken sufficiently in aunswere of your tenth argumente out of the scriptures where you make mention of fastyng also Euseb. lib. v. Capit. xviij Testifieth that Montanus the heretike was the firste that prescribed lawes of fastyng whom you followe altogether And especially the heretikes call Archontici of whom Epiphanius writeth lib. i. Tom. iij. Here. 40. whiche pretended fastyng but obserued none in deede and the Manichees of whom S. Augustine testifieth that vnder colour of abstinence thei refrained from eatyng of any liuyng thyng and from drinkyng wine yet did thei glutte and pamper theim selues with delicate frutes and spices with drinke made of the iuice of Dates c. such was your Popishe faste on Fridaies at Dinner to eate no fleshe but as muche fishe as the beallie would holde with good store of wine at night to eate no liuyng creatures but Figges Reasons Almondes Wardens and Quinces baked Suckette and Marmelade and other fruites conserued with good wine or Hipocras to helpe digestion This was a straight kind of faste yet this was Catholicke enough so long as greate Prelates vsed it The Papispte Ninth in the primitiue churche they vsed praier for the soules departed whiche was the tradition of the Apostles as witnesseth Dyonysius Areopagita de caelesti Hierarchia Cap. 7. Epiphanius Chrisostom in 1. ad Cor. Hom. 41. in Math. 33. Hō 69. ad populum Antiochenum whiche thinge is proued also by the Scriptures affirmed of all auncient writers and hath alwaies been continued in Christes Churche and now denied and taken awaie by oure reformatours and therefore they minde no to reduce vs to the primitiue churche The aunswere I must needes confesse that praier for the deade is one of the oldeste heresies that the Papistes doe maintaine and yet hath it no aucthoritie of Gods worde nor of the primitiue Churche for twoo hundreth yeres after Christe Thei vsed in deede to make mention of theim at the celebration of the Communion and to giue God thankes for them whiche some tyme is called a Sacrifice offered for thē as of Cypriane Lib. iiii Epist. v. Speaking of Martyres of whom none doubteth but thei were in heauen and neded no praiers to bee made for them Sacrificia pro eis semper vt meministis offerimus quoties martyrum passiones dies anniuersaria commemoratione celebramus That is Wee offer Sacrifice for theim alwaies as you remember so often as wee celebrate the passion or dayes of the Martyres by yerely commemoration But this vnproper kinde of speakyng and bolde attemptes without scripture to name the deade in the Communion did bréede in the posteritie many errours as praier for the deade the Sacrifice of the Masse for the deade Purgatorie and suche other But in this nineth argumente you bewraie your fraudulent dealing in the other for here you note the places of the doctours whiche you knowe no manne will denie and in other places where you affirme that none of vs will graunte you alledge their names onely without quotyng the places The Papiste Tenth in the Primitiue churche christen men were taught to arme them selues with the signe of the Crosse whiche consignatiō of the Crosse was vsed in the administration of the Sacramentes and that of necessitie as sainct Augustine saieth wordes also of inuocation before the consecration of the Sacrament of the Aulter were vsed in the primitiue churche like as the sanctifiyng of the Fonte the blessyng also of the Chrisme and Oyle to annoincte the partie baptized all which thinges were of the traditions of the Apostles as witnesseth Basili sainct Cyprian sainct Augustine Damas and many other ▪ whiche thinges beeyng now vtterly abolished by the newe reformatours they purpose not to bring vs to the order of the Primitiue churche Seeyng therefore it can not bee denied by so many testimonies gathered out of the diuine Scriptures and holy fathers that they agree not with the primitiue churche of christe but doe dissent and are cleane gone from it in so many diuerse poinctes as I haue expressed Therefore this their reformation to reduce vs to the primitiue churche is onely pretended of their partes and shall neuer be proued The aunswere You leape to and fro backwarde and forwarde more like to one that daunseth then that disputeth Haue wée not hearde enough before of crossyng and blessyng of Oile and Chrisme But thei must now be repeated againe whiche if thei were graunted to you and vsed of vs as thei were in tyme of those doctours whose names you recite what had you gained ther by It