Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	acknowledge_v	faith_n	true_a	3,733	5	4.5591	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80769	Concerning the nevv church discipline an excellent letter written by Mr George Cranmer to Mr R. H.	Cranmer, George, 1563-1600.; Hooker, Richard, 1553 or 4-1600.; Cranmer, George, 1563-1600.; Camden, William, 1551-1623. Annales rerum Anglicarum et Hibernicarum regnante Elizabetha. English. Selections.	1645 (1645)	Wing C6826A; ESTC R225435	8,454	30

instruments of this great worke Hereupon they framed unto themselves an assured hope that upon their preaching out of a pease-cart all the multitude would have presently joyned unto them and in amazement of mind have asked them Viri fratres quid agimus whereunto it is likely they would have returned an answer farre unlike to that of S. Peter such and such are men unworthy to govern pluck them down such and such are the deare children of God let them be advanced Of two of these men it is meet to speake with all commiseration yet so that others by their example may receive instruction and withall some light may appeare what stirring affections the Discipline is like to inspire if it light upon apt and prepared minds Now if any man doubt of what society they were or if the reformers disclaime them pretending that by them they were condemned let these points be considered 1. Whose associats were they before their entring into this frantick passion Whose Sermons did they frequent Whom did they admire 2. Even when they were entring into it Whose advise did they require and when they were in whose approbation Whom advertised they of their purpose Whose assistance by prayers did they request But wee deale injuriously with them to lay this to their charge for they reproved and condemned it How did they disclose it to the Magistrate that it might be suppressed or were they rather content to stand aloofe and see the end of it and loath to quench the spirit No doubt these mad practitioners were of their society with whom before and in the practise of their madnesse they had most affinity Hereof read Doct. Bancrofts book A third inducement may be to dislike of the Discipline if we consider not only how farre the reformers themselves have proceeded but what others upon their foundations have built Here come the Brownists in the first ranke their lineall descendants who have seised upon a number of strange opinions whereof although their Ancestors the reformers were never actually possessed yet by right and interest from them derived the Brownists and Barrowists hath taken possession of them For if the positions of the Reformers be true I cannot see how the maine and generall conclusions of Brownisme should be false For upon these two points as J conceive they stand 1. That because we have no Church they are to sever themselves from us 2. That without Civill authority they are to erect a Church of their owne And if the former of these be true the latter I suppose will follow For if above all things men be to regard their salvation and if out of the Church there be no salvation it followeth that if we have no Church we have no meanes of salvation and therefore separation from us in that respect both lawfull and necessary as also that men so separated from the false and counterfeit Church are to associate themselves unto some Church not to ours to the Popish much lesse therefore to one of their owne making Now the ground of all these inferences being this that in our Church there is no means of salvation is out of the Reformers Principles most clearely to be proved For wheresoever any matter of faith unto salvation necessary is denied there can be no meanes of salvation but in the Church of England the Discipline by them accounted a matter of Faith and necessary to salvation is not only denied but impugned and the professors thereof opprest Ergo Againe but this reason perhaps is weak Every true Church of Christ acknowledgeth the whole Gospell of Christ the discipline in their opinion is a part of the Gospell and yet by our Church resisted Ergo Againe The Discipline is essentially united to the Church by which terme essentially they must meane either an essentiall part or an essentiall property Both which waies it must needs be that where that essentiall Discipline is not neither is there any Church If therefore between them and the Brownists there should be appointed a solemne Disputation whereof with us they have been oftentimes so earnest Challengers it doth not yet appeare what other answer they could possibly frame to these and the like Arguments wherewith they might be pressed but fairely to deny the conclusion for all the premises are their own or rather ingeniously to reverse their own principles before laid whereon so foule absurdities have been so firmely built What further proofes you can bring out of their high words magnifying the Discipline I leave to your better remembrance but above all points I am desirous this one should be strongly inforced against them because it wringeth them most of all and is of all others for ought I see the most unanswerable You may notwithstanding say that you would be heartily glad these their positions might so be salved as the Brownists might not appeare to have issued out of their loines but untill that be done they must give us leave to thinke that they have cast the seed whereout these tares are growen Another sort of men there is which have been content to run on with the reformers for a time and to make them poore Instruments of their owne designes These are a sort of godlesse politicks who perceiving the plot of Discipline to consist of these two parts the overthrow of Episcopall and erection of Presbitriall Authority and that this later can take no place till the former be removed are content to joyn with them in the distructive part of Discipline bearing them in hand that in the other also they shall find them as ready But when time shall come it may be they would be as loath to be yoaked with that kind of regiment as now they are willing to be released from this These mens ends in all their actions is {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} their pretence and colour Reformation Those things which under this colour they have effected to their own good are 1 by maintaining a contrary faction they have kept the Clergy alwaies in awe and thereby made them more pliable and willing to buy their peace 2. By maintaining an opinion of equality among Ministers they have made way to their own purposes for devouring Cathedrall Churches and Bps Livings 3. By exclaiming against abuses in the Church they have carried their own corrupt dealings in the civill state more covertly For such is the nature of the multitude they are not able to apprehend many things at once so as being possessed with dislike or liking of any one thing many other in the meane time may escape them without being perceived 4. They have sought to disgrace the Clergy in entertaining a conceit in mens minds and confirming it by continuall practise that men of learning and specially of the Clergy which are imployed in the chiefest kind of learning are not to be admitted or spareingly admitted to matters of State contrary to the practise of all well governed Common-wealths and of our own till these late

CONCERNING THE NEVV CHVRCH DISCIPLINE AN EXCELLENT LETTER Written by Mr GEORGE CRANMER to Mr R. H. Oxford Printed in the yeare 1645. THE WORDS OF THE learned Mr CAMBDEN in his Annals of Queene ELIZABETH Anno 42. concerning this Author Mr G. Cranmer THis Cranmer whose christen name was George was a Gentleman of singular hopes the eldest sonne of Thomas Cranmer sonne of Edmund Cranmer the Arch-bishops brother He spent a good part of his youth in Corpus Christi Colledge in Oxford where he proceeded and continued Master of Arts of sixe yeares standing before he removed and then betook himselfe to Secretary Davison After whose fall he went in place of Secretary with Sir Henry Killegrew in his Embassage into France And after his death he accompanied that worthy and learned Gentleman Sir Edwin Sands in his travels into France Germany Italy and other parts by the space of three yeares And after his returne was sought after by the most Noble Lord Mountjoy with whom he went into Ireland where he remained untill his unfortunate death in a Battell against the Rebells neare Carlingford cut off the great hopes conceived of him CONCERNING the new Church Government WHat posterity is likely to judge of these matters concerning Church-discipline wee may the better conjecture if wee call to mind what our own age within few yeares upon better experience hath already judged concerning the same It may be remembred that at first the greatest part of the learned in the land were either eagerly affected or favourably inclined that way The Bookes then written for the most part savoured of the disciplinary stile it sounded every where in pulpits and in the common phrase of mens speech the contrary part began to feare they had taken a wrong course many which impugned the discipline yet so impugned it not as not being the better forme of government but as not so convenient for our State in regard of dangerous innovations thereby likely to grow One man alone there was to speake of whom let no suspition of flattery deprive of his deserved commendation Who in the diffidence of the one part and courage of the other stood in the gap and gave others respite to prepare themselves to their defence which by the sudden eagernesse and violence of their adversaries had otherwise been prevented Wherein God hath made good unto him his owne emprese Vincit qui patitur for what contumelious indignities he hath at their hands sustained the world is witnesse and what reward of honour above his adversaries God hath bestowed upon him themselves though nothing glad thereof must needs confesse Now of late yeares the heate of men towards the Discipline is greatly decaied their iudgments begin to sway on the other side the learned haue weighed it and found it light wise men conceiue some feare lest it prove not only not the best kind of government but the very bane and destruction of all government The cause of this change in mens opinions may be drawen from the generall nature of error disguised and clothed with the name of truth which is mightily and violently to possesse men at first but afterwards the weaknesse thereof being by time discovered to loose that reputation which before it had gained As by the outside of an house the Passers by are oftentimes deceived till they see the conveniency of the roomes within so by the very name of Discipline and Reformation men were drawen at first to cast a fancy towards it but now they have not contented themselves only to passe by and behold a farre off the forefront of this reformed house they have entred in even at the speciall request of the Master workmen and chiefe Builders thereof they have perused the roomes the lights the conveniences they finde them not answerable to that report which was made of them nor to that opinion which upon report they had conceived So as now the Discipline which at first triumphed over all being unmasked beginneth to droope and hang downe her head This cause of change in opinion concerning the Discipline is proper to the learned or to such as by them have been instructed another cause there is more open and more apparent to the view of all namely the course of practice which the Reformers have had with us from the begining The first degree was only some small difference about Cap and Surplesse but not such as either bred division in the Church or tended to the ruine of the government then established This was peaceable the next degree more stirring Admonitions were directed to the Parliament in peremptory sort against our whole forme of Regiment In defence of them volumes were published in English in Latin Yet this was no more than writing Devices were set on foot to erect the practice of the discipline without authority yet herein some regard of modesty some moderation was used Behold at length it brake forth into open outrage first in writing by Martin in whose kind of dealing these things may be observed 1. That whereas T. C. and others his great Masters had alwaies before set out the discipline as a Queen and as the daughter of God he contrariwise to make her more acceptable to the people brought her forth as a vice upon the stage 2. Which conceit of his was grounded as may be supposed upon this rare policie that seeing the Discipline was by writing refuted in Parliament rejected in secret corners hunted out and descried it was imagined that by open railing which to the vulgar is commonly most plausible the state Ecclesiasticall might have been drawen into such contempt and hatred as the overthrow thereof should have been most gratefull to all men and in a manner desired of the common people 3. It may be noted and this I know my selfe to be true how some of them although they could not for shame approve so lewd an action yet were content to lay hold on it to the advancement of their cause acknowledging therein the secret judgements of God against the Bps and hoping that some good might be wrought thereby for his Church as indeed there was though not according to their construction For 4. contrary to their expectation that railing spirit did not only not further but extreamly disgrace and prejudice their cause when it was once perceived from how low degrees of contradiction at first to what outrage of contumely and slander they were at length proceeded and were also likely further to proceed A further degree of outrage was in fact Certain Prophets did arise who deeming it not possible that God should suffer that undone which they did so fiercely desire to have done namely that his holy Saints the favourers and fathers of the Discipline should be enlarged and delivered from persecution and seeing no meanes of deliverance ordinary were faine to perswade themselves that God must needs raise some extraordinary meanes and being perswaded of none so well as of themselves they forthwith must needs be the