is méere to vnderstand but that we vnderstand according to sobrietie as God hath delt to euerye one the measure of fayth and we prophesie according to the proportion thereof sith the Scripture may not be interpreted by other spirit then it hath bene deliuered For as no man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirit of man which is within him euen so the things of God no man knoweth saue onely the spirit of God As for the exposition of the holy Fathers and Doctours the same holy Fathers and Doctours them selues haue taught vs soberly and with reuerence to leaue them if in any wise they thinke other then the truth reporteth Neither yet of counsails haue we any fore iudged senteÌ„ce to be led by the counsel of Nice or Areminum but confer matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason according to the scriptures And vppon this ground we more esteme one laye man bringing scripture for his defence than a whole assemblie without the like assuraunce For were it not extreme madnesse vpon the credit of men to goe carelesse in the mire we knowe not whether sith the thinges are written whereby we may liue Euen as our sauiour Christ gaue aunswere to him that sought life referring him to the scriptures and asking what he read so we vpon those scriptures haue buylded vp our church wherin we haue rather chosen to be dore kéepers than to dwell in the prowd palaces of vngodlie buildings But here M. Harding crieth out for the Apostles constitutions and with rumours and heresies deceitful traditions bringeth battred weapons against our Church walles But alas infelix puer atque impar congressus Achilli O vnhappie child and vnméete match for Achilles This ordinaunce is but quilles these pellets are but paper this powder is but winde and all these engines are but rotten wood Thanks be to God that hath made vs our dwelling places and indewed vs with hope that shall not be confounded We haue left to walke in their slipperie wayes we haue left of to go after them in their vnfruitfull iourneis we haue left of our gaping so long after flyes would God Maister Harding you would so tourne from your follie but you are drounken though not with wine and you stagger though not with strong drinke for the Lord hath couered you with a spirit of slumber and hath shut vp your eyes Concerning traditions I saye breifly such turning of deuises shalbe estemed as the potters claie yet meane I not this of all but of popish traditions of forbidding mariage commaunding to abstaine from meates which S. Paule sayth is the doctrine of Deuills of lying Legendes which are the tokens of Antichrist of massing garments which for all new gloses muste néedes signifie the loking for of a new Messias To be short of all such traditions rites worshippings as at this time set forth the superstition of this romish seruice concluding this place with S. Paul Phil. 4. what so euer things are true what so euer things are honest what so euer things are iust what so euer things are pure what so euer things pertaine to loue â–ª what so euer things are of good report if there be any vertue or if there be any prayse thinke on those things which you both learned receiued and heard sene in me those things doe and the God of peace shalbe with you Nowe he that can bring most auÌ„tient profe what these traditions were it is best reason he should be beleued Speake now for your churche Maister Harding and if you winne for my part I will yeld Speake out therefore alowd and tel vs your witnesse names Ignatius Martialis Abdias Hippolitus Amphilochius Leontius Dyonitius Olde witnesses sure euen moulded with their manie yeares yet such is your fortune euen these are to yong Call for your Clemens the Appostles felow yet he will not serue Ther is one commeth aganist them longer of continuance more trauailed in the world yet not worne with his yeares nor wâ—ried with his labour he is as good as Moyses his eyes are not dimmed nor his naturall force abated he is like vnto Caleb as strong now as when his Moyses first sent him as strong as he was then euen so strong is he now for warre or gouernment a companion of S. Paules iourneis whose prayse is in the Gospell thoroughout all Churches who saluted the Collossians who onelye was with Paule at Rome the .xiii. yeare of the raygne of Nero though you say Peter was then Bishop an excellent Phisition and one that can cure the very hardnes of your hart If you care not for hys commendacions yet regarde his name I doe meane S. Luke the holy Euangelist Let vs stande to his iudgement what were these traditions These traditions sayth he are the Gospell and the Actes which I wrote to Theophilus For these are his very woordes It séemed good also to me most noble Theophilus as soone as I had searched out perfitlye all things from the beginning to wryte vnto you thereof from point to point All these things thus exactly written he receiued onely of his Maister Paule And therfore as it is thought the same Apostle speaking of S. Lukes writing calleth it his owne Gospell So that what so euer Luke reporteth not written by S. Paule it is Paules preaching and that is his tradition yea euen from poynt to poynt O maister Harding you thinke not reuerently of the spirite of God if you can imagine that S. Luke after such a promise vnto Theophilus pretermitted anye thing that séemed necessarie there is nothing sufficient if this be not sufficient And yet there is an other witnesse more auncient then Luke and yet more fresh then all your withered Doctours and that is S. Paule him selfe who in the .xv. to the Romaines as maye well be gathered saith that he wrote vnto them that same that he preached Now sith we haue so sufficient warrants call vs not into law for reiecting your dreamings but acknowledge we say truly in deniyng that Churche whose faith you professe to be the catholike Churche For a briefe aunswere to your order of Bishops I say it is a token that maye faile in the Churche or else was there no Church from the death of Christ till S. Peter was a bishop and so like in all vacations of Popes be they long or short The church must be tried by the woord of God Let Augustine be the Iudge Epist. 166. and Chrisostome vpon Mathew hom 49. Now for the better discharge of Luther and Zuinglius which in Gods cause haue bene Symeon and Leui to reueÌ„ge the adulteries of Sichem I wyll laye foorth your argument and make it no woorse then it is S. Augustine saith if the order of Bishops may prooue the Church there was neuer yet Bishop of Rome a Donatist ergo saith maister Harding ther must néedes be an open succession of Bishops Let who wyll be
first how vnwares he speaketh contrarie to him selfe He confesseth flatly that this negatiue of S. Gregorie wherin he denieth any ought to be vniuersall Bishop is in defence of the truth Yet Maister Harding in the fourth article goeth about to proue that the pope is vniuersal B. so by his own confession he goeth about to proue a lye Secondarely he confesseth at the last that Maister Cranmar was a Byshop and Maister Iuell with other his felowes are Bishops yet at other times he and his fellowes wil in no case graunt it Thirdly he saith no B. of Sarisburie was a Caluinist before Maister Iuell and that is a manifest lye Fourthly that no Byshop of Canterbury was maried before Cranmar and that is an otherlie So in al this former péece either he speaketh nothing but lyes or if it be true it is such truth as by open writing he hath impugned But Maister Harding bicause he can not deny this contrarietie he will bid vs proue the other that any B. of Sarisbury hath bene of one religion with Caluin or that any B. of Cant. hath bene maried In déede this is the ground of their whole religion bold asseuerations without any manner warrant and then they bid vs proue the contrary But although this vnequall dealing be not good and he that teacheth anye thing shoulde proue the same to be true yet I am content for truthes sake to reproue in fewe woordes these negatiues of Maister Hardings First this forbidding mariage was vniuersally established by Pope Siluester the seconde who was made Pope by the meanes and woorking of the deuil as their own writers confesse in the yeare of our Lord 980. Yet I graunt through the folly of vnlearned bishops about .400 yeares after Christ matrimonie in the cleargy began to be misliked especially in the West church For in the East church they made no account of it yea they thought it was no hinderaunce to the minister for perfourmance of his dutie in Gods church But as I haue said the West church in many places forbad it And S. Ierom although in many places he speake reuerently and well of it yet in some places vpon his owne priuate affection he misliketh it But as touching this purpose more then thre hundred yeares after Christ Priestes mariage was thought verie lawfull But the English men receiued the faith of Christ in the latter time of Nero as Gildas witnesseth an olde writer and a Britan who liued in the yeare of our Lord .580 and will Maister Harding say that the thing being lawfull yet in .300 yeare togither there was neuer a Byshop maried And let Mayster Harding héere make no exception either that in those dayes ther was no Byshops of Canterbury or Sarisbury or that Gildas auctority is not good Theodoretus saith that S. Paule him selfe preached héere in his latter time Nicephorus and other moe say they receiued the fayth in the yere of our Lord 63. by Ioseph of Arimathia After this supersticion began againe to bréede then an .179 many preachers were sent for to call them againe to their former profession Whervpō Tertullian speaking of this age saith Britānorum inaccessa Romanis loca Christo fuerin◠subdita And Petrus Cluniacensis speaking of the Scots calleth them christianos antiquiores the most auncient christian men And the story is knowen how Lucius then King of England was very diligent in setting out the Gospell Thus it appeareth the true faith hath bene in Englande almost euer since our sauiour Christ died Now y t in those daies ther wer bishops in Englād it is likewise manifest When Eleutherius the Pope 177. sent preachers into England they found here .3 called archiflamines and .25 called flamines which he turned in to thrée archbishops .25 byshops Thus much then is clere that in England were Christian bishops and they might mary Now to proue that they were maried it is plaine by Gildas in the latter ende of his booke where he reproueth the Bishops their wiues and their children So this lying negatiue of M. Harding is reproued that sayth no Bishop was euer maried in England before Bishop Cranmer For the other negatiue that there was neuer B. of Sarisburie of that religion which Caluine taught it appeareth by M. Iuels Replie which sheweth that not onely in England but in all Christendome that religion was in the chiefest articles professed And yet bicause it is here brought with the suretie of M. Hardings warrant we wyll speake a little of this negatiue It is boldlye auouched of manye popish Priestes that Christianitie was placed here by Augustine which is called the Englishe Bishop He was sent from Rome and landed in the Ile of Tenet in Kent an 596. But it is alredy shewed that we had the faith of Christ long before Then what did Augustine here I will tell thée Christian Reader and I wyll tell thée that which M. Harding shall nener be able to confute He did first perswade the King and Quéene not to enforce his new religion but to leaue it fréely to men to follow if they would Afterward being made Bishop of Canterburie by consent of a Synode he thrust into that Church altars vestiments images Masses challices crosses candlesticks ▪ sensers banners processions holy water holy bread funerals tithes and such other stuffe whych before that time was neuer séene in England Then he changed their kéeping of Easter day taught them manye ceremonies in Baptisme and when he coulde not bring all men to his diet he moued great persecution against such as defended the libertie of the Church Then he receiued from Rome relickes of diuers Saintes buylt a Monasterie to Saint Peter wrought many fained miracles and so at the last he died about the yeare of our Lord .610 Now for further proofe of this that Augustine marred and not made our religion it is verye probable that we neuer receiued our faith from Rome but from the East Church First bicause we vntill Augustine came among vs kept our Easter after the manner of the Gréeke Church Now it is well knowen what mortall hatred there was for that matter so that he which was enstructed of the one would in no wyse vse the order of the other Agayne when Augustine should be sent vnto them he came backe for feare and the Britaines would not receaue him nor acknowledge anye authoritie of Pope Gregorie ouer them Which sure they would neuer haue done if they had receaued theyr fayth from Rome Thus much then followeth we had the faith of the Gréeke Church without all superstitious ceremonies of the Church of Rome and so it is manifest our bishops were then of Maister Caluines profession in the whole substaunce of their religion And so is this other negatiue of M. Harding prooued a lye This I haue sayd the more at large bicause M. Hardyng and his fellowes woulde haue vs beleue that our faith came from the Pope and Dan Augustine
and hys brother yet he would néedes be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So M. Harding wyll say néedes he is modest but his woord is no warrant Concerning M. Iuell whether his greatest grace be in scoffing I maruaile that he now doth aske the question Doth not M. Rastall his owne dearlyng confesse he hath a rare gift in writing Though his aucthoritie be otherwise very light yet against M. Harding it is very weightie And why will not M. Harding confesse as much Is he not as well learned as M. Rastall Yes sure but malitia mutauit intellectum malice hath chaunged his vnderstanding Hardyng ¶ If ye seeke to be reuenged on me for that I haue bene so bold as to aunswere your vaine Chalenge and by this Reioynder to confute part of your colourable Reply either hold your peace or speake so as you be not fouÌ„d a lyer if you can For truely by your euill speaking of me you shal but encrease the heape of my felicitie c. Dering Maister Harding would haue the world to thinke we are offended with his writing And in déede we are so and take it as a scourge of God to kéepe vs in humilitie and a manacing against our sinful liues that as oft as we se their bookes we should repent vs of the idolatries wherein we haue beene drowned But he in his impiety runneth desperatly forward and appealeth vnto Gods iudgement with such securitye as appeareth as Flauinius at Thrasimenus or Varro at Cannae went to méete with Hannibal Well may I vse this similitude sith all his doings are nothing else but gentillitie Maister Harding doth accuse vs of euill speaking before we offeÌ„d him Where he saith he is sure he standeth vpon a sure grouÌ„d let him take héede he be not wise in his own conceit Not euery one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdome of heauen but he that doth the will of God They are not all true worshippers that go vp to Ierusalem but suche onely as woorship in spirite and veritie The Iewes with as great a confidence sayde they had one Father which was God but Christ aunswered they were of their father the Deuil Saint Paule speaketh of the wicked that gloried so of God but hée sayth by such meanes the true God is dishonored The Scribes and the Pharises bragged muche of Moyses but Christ sayd the same Moyses should be their accuser All Israel dyd euer boast they were the children but yet onely in Isaac shal the séede be called Euen so these braggings of Christ séeing he followeth not his Testament shall be his owne confusion But by like he feared this that here I do aunswere and therfore with a vaine occupacion he thought best to preuent it and make a false clayme him selfe to that sayinge of Christ. And to proue it doth alleadge that weary argument of their Romish church which bicause it is so oft alleadged it shall not be amisse to speake somwhat of it to way a litle the difference of the two Churches The Churche of Christ is not bounde to any mans traditions it is not tyed to any certaine place the somâ— hath made vs frée and therfore we are frée in déede Neither in Ierusalem nor in this hill the true worshippers doo worship but in spirite and veritye But the Church of Rome doeth hang vpon olde rotten postes they obserue monethes and dayes that they maye be made frée they runne into cloisters and monckery for to worship and serue God The Church of Christ is not inclosed in any certain cuntry the Apostels are gone into al the world to preach the Gospell who soeuer doth beleue and is baptised shalbe saued But the church of Rome doth condemne them that goe one foote from hir she pronounceth them accursed that wil not drinke of hir adulteries and without hir she saith ther is no helth The Church of Christ wil not heare a strangers voice she will not beleue an angell from heauen that shall preach any other doctrine then Christ hath deliuered the scripture is the rule of hir whole religioÌ„ The church of Rome doth harken after vnwritten verities she giueth credit vnto dreames and visions she saith the Scriptures maye be drawen into diuers senses and will not allowe them but after hir fansied interpretations The church of Christ is buylt vpon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Christ him selfe being the heade corner stone she doth receiue with méekenesse the woorde that is ingraffed in hir and doth confesse that it can saue our soules The church of Rome is buylt vppon mens deuises and for insufficiencye of the word adioyneth pilgrimages and pardons sacrifices for quick and dead Masses and purgatoryes Inuocation of Saints worshipping of Images and a thousand such trumperies and will not confesse that all is written which is necessary to saluation The Church of Christ doth acknowledge that by Christ alone she is saued by Christ alone she is deliuered from hir vaine conuersation and from the bondage of sin not by the woorks of righteousnes which she had done but according to his mercy which hath saued hir But the church of Rome maketh merits of hir own hath inuented worâ—es of supererogation hath great confidence in Bulles Reliques Indulgences and salutations of the Pope The church of Christ is the communion of Saints the society and the felowship of these that walke in righteousnes But the church of Rome is a den of théeues her hye Priestes are sorcerers coniurers necromancers murderers vnchast adulterers Sodomits church robbers and such like infamous creatures as is euident by Platina Beâ—no and all other that haue written their liues The church of Christ doth vse the keies aright as she hath receiued them she pardoneth the penitent bindeth vp the sinnes of the disobedient and as she frely hath receiued so frelye she bestoweth them The church of Rome doth binde and lose at aduentures sendeth pardons to persons that she neuer sawe and bicause she hath not receiued fréely she selleth vnreasonable deare and hath made men paye for their sinnes an hundred thousand ounces of golde To conclude the church of Christ is the members of Christ the bodye of one head of which heade she hath receiued hir saluatioÌ„ bicause he hath purchased hir with his blood The church of Rome is the body of Antichrist the members of an Idolatrous harlot that hath gone a whorehunting after diuers louers Therfore the church of Rome is not the church of Christ. And as this church of Rome is in déede the synagogue of the Deuill so she hath not so much as the marks of Christes congregation The right vse of the sacraments which is the badge of Christs church and the reading of scriptures wherby hir steppes are lightened are as farre out of Peters church in Rome now as in the tyme of paganisme ther were out of the capitol as it shall appeare vpon further discussion First if they haue the
victorie Such Hercules buskins he can applie to little leggs and make so great vaunts where himselfe is furthest deceyued The B. of Saris. The name of Masse is seldome or neuer found among the Catholyke fathers Hardyng The .17 vntruth It is often found among the olde writers Dering Note good Reader how this man feareth not to note vntruthes so his number may grow This word is seldom found â—aith Maister Iuell in the catholike fathers it is found often sayth he in olde writers as though who soeuer were auncient he were straite way Catholyke Himselfe hath remoued in the 21. vntruth certaine commentaries of Ierom. And I must certifie thée there be other which notwithstanding their age yet haue no more authoritie than olde Aesopes fables Then notwithstanding Maister Hardings note of olde wryters yet M. Iuels saying of the catholike fathers may be true But I will not vrge Maister Hardings wordes admit he ment no guile in the naming of olde wryters How proueth he this vntruth He bringeth in .ix. fathers and counsels in which this worde Masse is found he sayth he could bring thrée mo that is .xii. in all The olde bookes which are written are almost infinite so in .12000 bookes he can finde that he seeketh for but .12 times yet sayth he it is found often Maister Iuell graunteth it is found somtimes Such vntruthes wil soone shame the controller Now this worde Masse or Missa least it shoulde beguile thée for that it is sometime in catholike fathers I will brieflye declare vnto thée what it is and in what sence it is found That which maister Harding calleth so ofte the Masse as Basils Masse Chrisostomes Masse and Iames his Masse in Gréeke it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth an open or common function and this signification it hath as well in prophane writers as in the scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sayth Aristotle he is occupied in the administration of the commoÌ„ wealth and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to execute common offices So 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the open worshippinges and seruice of their Gods In like sort it is vsed in the scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they were openlye preaching and Saint Paule sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that I might be an open minister among the Gentiles and this is proued by the Etimologie or true explication of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quasi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he that hath common businesse in hande Hereby it appeareth that eyther M. Hardings Masse is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so neyther Chrisostome nor Iames nor Basil nor the other Gréeke authors euer sayde or named Masse or if they did the verye worde doth quite ouerthrow the priuate Masse As touching the Latine worde Missa we haue to learne it as the fathers sayde remissa for remissio so also they sayd missa for missio that is a sending away when in the primatiue Church such as were Nouices in christian fayth were sent away from the true beleuers which was before the communion And this appeareth by Saint Augustine where he sayth Ecce post sermonem fit missa cathecumenis manebunt fideles venietur ad locum orationis Beholde after the sermon the Nouices are dimissed the faythfull shall abyde and shall go vnto the communion For so maister Harding doth witnesse that orationis in Saint Augustine doth signifie and in déede in this place it is true Here haue we thrée especiall things to note the craft and subtilitie of Maister Harding and his friend Stapleton who both as it may be well thought vpon conference haue aledged the same places oute of doctors and councels where this worde Misâ—a is found and yet neyther haue mencioned this place of Augustine If they knewe it not they are not of that reading they pretend if they knew it it is to maliciously concealed Secondarily there abode no more in the Church but such as were communicants So this late gazing at a popish Masse was not then in vse Thirdly they did all communicate and then where was priuate Masse So this gorgious shewe to bleare the simple peoples eyes with the antiquitie of this worde Masse is an inuincible argument whereby pryuate Masse doth fall Examine the places that they themselues bring thou canst not wreast any likelihoode of priuate Masse out of them Yet this is moreouer to be noted that within .380 yeares after Christ the worde was neuer named in any probable author whereby it sufficiently appeareth that it was neuer knowne in Christes time nor in his Apostles after him And thus much of this worde Masse The B. of Saris. Clement was very lately found in the yle of Candie by one Carolus Capellius a Venetian written in Greeke and in these Countreis neuer heard of nor seene before Harding The .19 vntruth It hath beene seene before Dering Here Maister Harding committeth thrée great faults the one to charge maister Iuel with an vntruth when he alleageth Peter Crabs authority an other for misconstruing those wordes which are plaine and common the thirde for clipping of Maister Iuels wordes For where he wryteth it was neuer séene in these couÌ„treis Maister Harding quoteth his vntruth it hath beene séene But considering these poore shiftes wherevnto maister Harding is driuen I will graunt these wordes to be maister Iuels that it was neuer séene Who knoweth not that neuer here signifieth of long time or seldom if it had béene neuer séene howe could it haue bene written These grosse gatherings in so fine a wit néedes must sauour of malice It is the phrase of al laÌ„guages 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Saith Achilles they did neuer wast my fertile fieldes in Pthia yet not many yeres before were great iniuries done by the Troians eueÌ„ in Achilles countrey So Agamemnon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 O prophet of harmes thou neuer yet toldest me pleasant things Yet it were much for M. Harding to say Calchas pleased not Agamemnon when he foretolde what tyme Troie should be destroyed In lyke maner sayth Euripides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 There was neuer good son of an euill father yet was Ezechias good of wicked Ahaz So in the common prouerbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more auncient than the worlde we meane great continuance We say the same in Latine NunquaÌ„ tam palestricus praetor There was neuer such a wrastling chiefe Iustice meaning very seldome And in our english I neuer sawe such an other But what we meane by it that in déede was neuer doubted of neyther is Maister Harding so simple that he knoweth it not but he had rather speake against his owne knowledge then say nothing against Maister Iuell This is ynough to any indifferent reader to shewe that these vntruthes are but wranglings But read the replie and thou must néedes confesse it were thou neuer so parciall For Maister Iuell himselfe alleageth Leo Gelasius Bessarion which disalow this booke and how could that be if
vntruthe Then thus hang these vntruthes If this last be true that the Gréeke Church dothe consecrate with prayers the thirde is true that it intendeth not Transubstantiation And the second is true that it hath no suche intent as the Church of Rome hath and the first is true that these churches are not resolued in this intent Now consider I beséeche thée good Reader what manner of vntruthes these are that notwithstanding their great number are yet so smal in value that if but one be proued true all .iiij. must be graūted Sure thou must néedes confesse that M. Harding who in his Epistle would so faine shoote at hobs and rouers yet at this marke he hath had so good deliuery that he hathe farre ouershot him selfe and his whole commendation is no more worthe than that praise in Horace of a babling Poete qui variare potest rem prodigialiter vnam which cā turne a true sentence into a great many lies For proofe of this last vntruthe on which the other hang we haue the plaine wordes of the Councel of Florence alleaged by M. Iuel where it is shewed that in the Gréekes mynisterie after the words of Christ pronounced this is my body they make this prayer fac panem hunc honorabile corpus Christi tui c. make this breade the honourable body of thy Christ. By this prayer it is manifest that these wordes this is my body being pronounced before did not worke Transubstantiation But bicause it hath pleased M. Harding in to great a zeale of his number to score vp vntruthes thus vnwisely least his friends should thinke the matter vnsufficiently answered we wil say somwhat of them in order euen as M. Harding noteth them and I doubt not but to the indifferent reader they shall one of them sufficiently confute an other First saith M. Harding the Church is resolued on the Priests entent But that is very false For the Gréeke Church and the Church of Rome haue not one intēt The Greke Church as is said doth consecrate with prayers The Church of Rome with hoc est enim corpus meum The Gréeke Church maketh more accompte of the worthy receiuing than of Consecration The Churche of Rome thinketh we ought to haue more regarde of Consecration than of the worthy receiuing I leaue out other differences which are almost infinite This is inough to proue our purpose Secondarily saithe M. Harding the Church of Rome entendeth not Transubstantiation What he entended in this vntruthe I know not For my parte wold God M. Iuel said héere vntrue and that that Romish Church would leaue of that presumptuous entent Thirdly saith M. Harding the Gréeke Church meaneth transubstantiation And this is very straunge for a learned man to speake suche repugnances First y t the church of Rome intendeth not transubstantiation Againe that the Gréeke Church doth intend transubstantiation And thirdly y t they two intende one thing when M. Harding with all his wrangling can make these vntruthes agrée sure we wil subscribe Now resteth a little to be considered of the Councel of Florence whether it may appeare by it that the Churche of the Grecians acknowledge no transubstantiation Thus it stoode When the Latines in that assembly required that they might entreate of transubstantiation The Grekes made answere sine totius orientalis ecclesiae authoritate quaestionem aliam tractare non possimus without the consent of all the East Church we can meddle with no other question c. Héere be the Reader neuer so simple he must thinke thus muche If this article of transubstantiation were so Catholike as they will make vs beleue how commeth it to be called so ofte in controuersie in generall Councell And againe if the Grecians did accompte it as Catholike and were resolued in it what meant they that they would not subscribe to so highe a point of Christian religion sure this was their meaning they knew this transubstantiation was but a Romish deuise and therefore they would ▪ not yelde vnto it And thus muche of these hasty vntruthes The B. of Saris. The .13 Diuision But if Cyril neuer spake word of the Masse how is he heere brought in to proue the Masse Harding The .101 vntruthe Cyril is not brought to proue the Masse Dering But he should proue priuate Masse or else what maketh he héere For of that the question is moued And this is a very hard case that M. Harding must lose his vntruthe or else confesse he speaketh not to the purpose The B. of Saris. Neither may we thinke that Christes body must grossely and bodily be receiued into our bodies Harding The .102 vntruthe We must beleue it Dering As maister Harding hath forsaken Gods Religion and is fallen againe to Poperie so it séemeth also he hath forsaken his learning and beginneth to make vntruthes with his follie This is one of the chiefest articles for which we haue forsaken their vnfaithfull Churche As ofte as we repeate this we conclude the thing which lieth in controuersie betwene vs. This is our professed opinion and vpon the trial of it by good and sufficient aucthoritie if it be proued against vs Maister Iuel is ready to subscribe Then what meaneth maister Harding Or what maner of vntruthe is this Or who can accompte it for true and plaine dealing when vpon good ground we shewe forthe our opinion and he scoreth vp the question for an vntruthe He shal doe well to reproue it before he make anymoe vntruthes of this Reade the .104 vntruthe The B. of Saris. S. Cyprian saith it is meate not for the belly but for the minde Harding The .103 vntruthe S. Cyprian saith not so Dering If M. Harding and his Popishe felowes had falsified the Doctors no otherwise than M. Iuel héere falsifieth S. Cyprian then in a little chaunge of words we should haue had their meaning faithfully deliuered vnto vs and bastard bokes such as they knew not had neuer bene ascribed vnto them But thanks be to God who hath now lightned vs least suche vngodly writings vnder godly names should deceiue vs as touching this vntruthe I graunt the words are not in that treatise entituled de coena domini But whether the author say the same thing in sense let him selfe witnesse M. Iuel alleaging no Latine words but folowing the sense saith thus it is meat not for the belly but for the minde The wordes in Cyprian are these Sicut panis communis quem quotidie edimus vita est corporis ita panis iste supersubstantialis vita est animae sanitas mentis As the common bread which we eate daily is the life of the body so this bread supersubstantiall is the life of the soule and the health of the minde and what is héere falsified by M. Iuel Or what is worthy blame in this allegation Yet M. Harding taketh this smal occasion to finde fault with his printed sermon with his replie and with them that as he saith
they confute themselues these others are the most auntient of any credite And as they haue these and sundry other erroures so from age to age in all writers erroures did still growe great controuersies were betwene the Gréekes and Latine church The matter is too plaine it néedeth no further proofe and no doubt the spirite of God foreséeing these daungerous times that shold ensue when men should make Gods of those holy Fathers grounding their faithe on them as on the true foundation the holy Ghost I say did leaue them to their owne fansies and suffred them to erre to declare that they were but men and that we should builde no further on them than they did builde vpon Christ but examine all sayings bothe theirs and oures by the euerlasting woord of God the only lanterne vnto our féeâ—e and the onely light vnto our steppes which thing God for his Christes sake graunte vs euermore to doe Amen For this other translation post finem orationum after the prayer of consecration which is the 178. vntruthe it is as soone proued to be yll as maister Harding hath aduenturously sayde it is good He saith they are Orationes that are after Consecration and precationes which are before and for this distinction he alleageth S. Augustine Héere christian reader thou hast to note two things First the distinction then maister Hardings argument As touching the distinction that there are no Orationes till consecration is past that is very false the Masse booke it selfe hath Oremus I wote not howe many times before they are at their saccaring and I trow he that made the Masse booke knewe what was in the Masse Nowe for the argument sée how it hangeth This it is Prayers after consecration are called Orationes Ergo Post finem orationum is when consecration is done I may with as good a reason as that argue thus Pomeridianum tempus is the after noone Ergo Peracto pomeridiano tempore is immediatly after .xij. of the clocke This is euen such an other argument and master Hardings hangeth as losely as it Thus if we will graunt M. Harding all his proofes he will bothe make his Massebooke a lier and frame againe as euil argumeÌ„ts as he maketh in his answer The B. of Sarisb In these words cum benedixisset sancta there is no mention of any sacrament Harding The .179 vntruthe It is necessarily implied though not in precise words Dering Is not this a straunge kinde of dealing The word is not there saith M. Iuel that is vntrue saith maister Harding the meaning is necessarily implied What néede any answer to such vntruthes as haue nether shame nor vnderstanding Likewise the next vntruthe which is the .180 whether maister Harding call things that are not as though they are bicause it is once mentioned in the .177 vntruthe I recken it not here worth the touching The B. of Saris. I haue already proued by sundry aucthorities that Missa is often times vsed for any kinde of prayer c. and it further appeareth also by the councell of Cabilon Harding The .181 vntruthe It is not yet proued The .182 vntruthe It appeareth not by the councel of Cabilon Dering Maister Harding shall doe well to deny M. Iuels proofeâ— when he hath reproued them and till that be done he were best say nothing Men may not now be ledde with his bare woord What master Iuels proofes are let the Reply be iudge For the other vntruth about the councell of Cabilon maister Harding vseth a great deale of wraÌ„gling and litle learning For maister Iuel dothe alleage Gratians owne woords as he reporteth it out of the councell O saith maister Harding the councel hath it not If it be so then the vntruthe is Gratians and not master Iuels and so M. Harding falleth out with his friends But to cloke the matter againe where the words as Gratian reporteth them are auditis missarum solennibus vespertinis officijs He saith it is ment of the feast of the foure times wheÌ„ it was lawful to say Masse at night Those times were as I suppose the first wéeke of Marche the seconde of Iune the thirde of September and the fourth wéeke of December but these first times liked not Vrbanus therefore he turned them into the first wéeke of Lent and into Whitsuntide and so we had the spring fast the summer fast the haruest fast and the winter fast that by these .iiij. bookes or hingels of the world we might be taught euen as with the foure Euangelies bothe what to preache and what to doe Thus haue maister Hardings holy Popes pulled out of Goddes Churche Gods eternall gospels and made vs newe gospels of their owne and of those times saith maister Harding that decrée is ment at which times Masse might be sayde at night But yet as I remember in Lent we had not many Masses at night but in the forenoone we had Euensong and all least the Euening prayer should be to long Then if it be so what doe these fasts héere to make answer for their Masse notwithstanding suche obseruation of dayes and monthes and times yet Masse in this place must signifie common prayer and so this is no vntruthe Or Masse was celebrate at night and then what meaneth the .81 vntruthe Read it The B. of Saris. M. Harding seeketh for his Masse at Alexandria a thousand miles out of Christendome Harding The .183 vntruthe Alexandria is not a thousand miles out of Christendome Dering In the .171 vntruthe where maister Iuel saith about which time Mahomet spreade his religion in Arabia maister Harding quoteth his vntruthe and saith Mahomet was not about that time and yet he was at the vtmost within .xix. yeres of that time now almost .1000 yeres past And this is strange dealing that of things done .1000 yeares past within xix yeares compasse we may not say they were done about one time Yet as though maister Harding there had done very well he doeth againe the like in this place sayth he Alexandria is not a thousand mile out of Christendome and bicause he will appeare constant he maketh this againe the .218 vntruthe so little is he ashamed of his owne folly And nowe what skilleth it whether it be iust a thousande mile off or else want a mile or two of it Is maister Harding euer the neare his priuate Masse Yet take away two poore Ilands Cyprus and Creta a .1000 mile a sunder and either of them .500 miles from christendome And M. Harding cannot proue y t any part of Alexandria is not a .1000 mile from christendome then this exact computation of miles in so néedelesse a matter may rather argue wranglyng than proue an vntruthe The B. of Saris. In the Tripartite historie it is written thus Gregorie Nazianzene in a little Oratorie at Constantinople 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 made assemblies of people Harding The .184 vntruthe It is not written so Dering This curious inquisition about words which preiudice
Romains was written about the beginning of the raigne of Nero and the yeare of our Lorde .56 at which time Peter was not at Rome as may be proued aboue all gesses and coniectures out of the worde of God First he saluteth diuers by name and yet he speaketh not of Peter a sure profe that Peter was not at Rome Againe he saluteth Andronicus and Iunia with this especial note which are notable among the Apostles and were in Christ afore me How muche more occasion had Paule thus to salute and commende Peter whome he calleth other where a piller of the Church and who was not only before Paule but before all men sauing Andrew his brother called to be a disciple Nothing may be here answered but that only which is true Peter was not at Rome If these reasons seme not strong inoughe then good Reader loke in the .15 to the Romaines thou shalt haue an other which by no meanes may be shifted off Thus he wryteth I enforced my self to preache the gosple not where Christ was named least I should haue built vpon an other mannes foundation but as it is vvritten to vvhome he vvas not spoken of they shall see him and they that heard not shall vnderstande him Then he addeth therefore also I haue bene oft let to come vnto you by which words it is manifest they had but weake maintenaunce of their faith and the true Disciples had no long continuaunce among them But how could this be if Peter were .25 yeare Bishop there Again he saluteth the houshold of Narcissus which Narcissus saith Ambrose vvas Presbiter eius ecclesiae a chiefe ruler in that churche and hovv coulde Paule here haue forgotten Peter being Archpresbiter the chiefe of all rulers and Pope himselfe Thus are vve past .xj. yeare of this Bishoprike and yet vve can not once finde S. Peter in his diocesse In the yeare of our Lord .58 and the seconde of Nero Paule commeth to Rome and then Peter is not at Rome as appeareth by this saying of the Scripture vvhere the chiefe of the Ievves in Rome speake thus vnto Paule We vvill heare of thee vvhat thou thinkest for as concerning this secte vve knovve that euery vvhere it is spoken againste Then vvhen Paule had preached vnto them and some beleued and some beleued not The text saith vvhen he had said these the Ievves departed and had great reasoning among them selues Is it possible that Peter should now haue bene thirtene yeare bishop and yet the chiefe of the Ievves that vvere there vvhen Paule came had scarce any vnderstanding of Christ â–ª They may beleue it that vvill nedes be deceiued Tvvo yeare after this vntill the yeare of our Lorde 60. the fourthe of Nero Paule abideth in Rome All vvhich while vndoubtedly Peter came not once there as may plain appeare if thou reade the Epistles vvhich Paule vvrote in Rome To the Galathians he speaketh muche of Peter and of his conuersation vvith him about tvventy yeares paste but of his present being at Rome not one vvorde and yet he speaketh of him to this purpose to get the more credite vnto himselfe vvhy then doeth he not name him as novve present vvith him In like case vvryting to the Philippians he beginneth his Epistle thus Paule and Timothie vvhy coulde he not heere haue begon Paule and Peter Nay what folly vvas it to bring Peters testimonie many yeares past vvhich novv might be doubted of vvhen he might haue had his present and most certaine vvitnesse vvith subscription of his ovvne hande to confirme his doctrine Againe he vvryteth thus vnto the Philippians that many brethren in the Lord vvere boldned through his bandes and durste frankely speake the worde if bandes would haue made them faithfull no doubt Peter had long before confirmed them surely he would not haue shronke neither for chaines nor prisones It is his owne doctrine that heere vnto we are called he coulde not so sone haue forgotten his owne good councell Againe Paule wryteth he had no man like minded as Timothy was how coulde this be if Peter had bene there Againe he wryteth he had only Aristarchus his prisone felow sure Peter would haue bene in prisone too if he had bene in Rome Againe Marke and Iustus are onely my felow workers and shall we thinke that Peter was now bishop yet would not helpe Paule in preaching Read ouer all Paules Epistles written in Rome and if the spirite of truthe be within thee thou wilt say Peter was not in Rome yet now he shoulde haue bene euen in the floure of his bishoprike Nowe are there only lefte ten yeares behinde in which likewise it shall appeare whether Peter were in Rome At the latter ende of this ten yeare Anno Domini .7d Neronis .14 Paule commeth againe to Rome and is againe imprisonned whence he wryteth his seconde Epistle to Timothie as Ierome and Eusebius and diuers other doe thinke Then Peter is not in Rome Only Luke is vvith me saith S. Paule if this be true vvhere then vvas Peter Shall vve thynke he vvoulde not once see Paule a prisonner Againe at my first aunswering no man assisted me but all forsoke me O vnthankefull vvretches and deseruing yll of Peter that vvoulde novve thinke Peter vvere Bishoppe But heere are nowe nine yeares in the meane season in vvhich it is sone proued Peter coulde be no bishop Paule reioysed that he had escaped out of the hands of Nero. But what needed he if that Peter could set quietly bishop Seneca wryteth secretely epistles vnto Paule and Paule vnto Seneca but neuer a worde of Peter Nero made proclamation that no man shoulde speake either to Christian or to Iewe and howe coulde then Peter be bishop Nero when he had set the Citie on fire in the .9 yeare of his raigne to auoid the enuye of so great a mischiefe he layde all the fault vpon the Christians whereof Tacitus that wicked heathen wryteth thus Repressa in praesâ—ns exitiabilis supersticio rursus â—rumpâ—bat That wicked superstition that was now well repressed sprang vp againe But is it like if Peter had bene then bishop that christianitie shoulde haue bene so quenched that no man did scarce remember it But be it that all this were true let Peter become vnfaithfull let him forget to professe Christ and feede his flocke were he neuer so vnthankfull yet sure he coulde not be then bishop of Rome For in the .10 yeare of his raigne Nero made suche great persecution of all Christians that in no place they coulde be sure but euery where were drawne forthe vnto moste shamefull deathes and this persecution continued .4 yeares without intermission and how vvas Peter then a bishop They had beastes skinnes put vpon them and then were weryed with dogges they laide them on heapes and burnt them to giue light in the night time they hong them vp quicke vpon gibbets they practised all kinde of
of the Apostels heresies our sauiour Christ a Samaritan But as for your Portuise which is your light whether it be darknesse or no I craue no Arbitrer I require but triall and as Elias saide to the priests of Baal let vs take eyther our bullock and laie the péeces on our aultars and on which God sendeth fire let that be the light You haue halted to long on both sides it is now time to walke vp right Offer vp your Portuise to Maister Iuell if he proue it not a heape of lies a sincke of iniquitie a déepe dungion of blasphemouse herisies agaynst the eternall sonne of God his euerlasting priesthood we will all subscribe And for the assuraunce of our meaning we saie with the Apostle behold before God we lie not if you dare not doe this the Christian Reader must remember you are woorse then Baals prophets Consider then Maister Harding in what waters you wade and looke better what is light darknesse For the ignoraunce of gods worde the Gentiles were said to sit in darkenesse and in the shadow of death the vnbeléeuing Iewes to be blinde leaders of the blinde and he that knewe it not to go he wist not whether But the darckning of that worde hath bene your chiefest light and ignoraunce the mother of your deuotion and as in the sacrifices of Isis and Serapis you haue made Harpocrates image with his finger on his lyps in token that your misteries must be kept secrete and as the Egiptians you haue your two diuers caracters that Robin Hoode and Gui of Warwick and Beuis of Hampton such like shoulde be had of the people in english letters But the misteries of our redemption the glorious tidings of the death of Christ were in straunge figures for the hasarde of deuotion they might not be made common So that of Launcelot Dulake of Lamorake de Galis of Sir Tristram de Lyones or Marlin the Prophet we could tell many weary tales but of Paule of Peter Iames or Iohn â–ª besides the bare names not one among a hundred could tell a lyne not withstanding the continual crying of wysdome in the stréetes the callyng of our Sauiour for the sielie lyttleones O M. Hardyng this is no light It was the tyme of Dioclesian when the Scriptures were burned the abhominations of Manasses when they were hyd in the Temple the kingdome of Antiochus when they were cut in péeces and to compare lyke with lyke your Antichristian iurisdiction where they are kept in couert Wherin you shew that great plague to rest vpoÌ„ you which who so heareth eyther eare shall tingle that you haue the famine of the woord of God When the cogitacion of maÌ„s hart euen from hys youth was euyll the worlde ouerrun w t couetousnesse God purged that iniquitie with his drowning waters when the crie of Sodome and Gomor did ascende to heauen God quenched their filthie lustes wyth fire and brimstone the frowardnesse of hys people the breach of his lawes the bloud of hys prophetes with pestilence famine banishments such other sundrie and diuers plagues but the death of hys onely heire wyth the letting out of the Uineyard to others and the bloud of hys beloued Sonne with the scourge of ignoraunce that vnto this daie they beleue not his glorious Gospel And how must the Popes kingdom néedes tremble feare that acknowledgeth the punishments of Christes death to maintaine their religion Now for our deliuerie from the maintenaunce of darkenes S. Paul biddeth vs not beleue an Angel of heauen that bringeth an other Gospell therefore we dare not be led with any blinde custome to shadowe the same light we haue receiued If you shall otherwyse be alway minded I se in an Etnick hart the effect of that etnicks praier virtutem vt videant intabesâ—antque relicta that you might sée vertue and pine away with want of it After this foloweth a sober excuse that Maister Harding maketh of him selfe that although through infirmitie he oftentimes offend yet in matters of faith he hath no peruerse iudgement The reason is bicause he doth submit him self to the church of Rome â–ª Much better this argument would hold the other way bicause he is in the church of Rome he is in all filthinesse superstition of a sinfull lyfe and of a corrupt religion hauing the heauie hand of God ouer him that except he repent the same woe shall light vppon him which so vnwisely he hath deriued to other Hardyng ¶ This matter is well to be weighed the case you stand in is deeplie to be considered This much you cannot denie you haue for your parte broken the vnitie that is so much commended vnto vs in the scriptures and all holy fathers The Catholicke churche sayth Saint Cyprian can be one it can not be cut and deuided a sunder The catholicke Churche alone is the bodie of Christ saith S. Augustine whereof he is the head the sauiour of his bodie Without hys body the holye Ghost giueth life to none Therefore in an other place he saith whosoeuer is seperat from the catholick churche how lawdable so euer he thinketh himselfe to liue for this onely wickednesse that he is deuided from the vnity of Christ he shall not haue lyfe but the wrath of God remaineth vpon him Dering Here is a sad admonition concerning the catholike Churche which we acknowledge to be the bodie of Christ and he the onely heade of it so that without it there is no saluation But for the triall of this Church we go to the Scriptures and doe examine ech spirit whether he be of God or no and such as saie they be Apostles and be none we haue founde them lyars therefore we run out from among them as out of the middest of Babilon out of their wicked assemblies and donne of théeues from their abominations of Moab and spirituall fornications and ar come againe to our merciful Father that hath prepared his fatlings for vs and put on vs our wedding garment and placed vs at his great Supper in the felowship of his church where we abide thorough his mercie and looke for our resolucion that our ioy maie be full And for our assurance to be of that number we haue the warraÌ„t of the Scriptures first for that we harken onely to Christ and heare not the voice of any stranger then for that we confesse that they alone can saue our soules And as S. Paul saith can make the man of God perfit to all good workes And considering that Prophecie came not in the olde time by the wyll of man but holie men of God spake as they were mooued by y e holy ghost we dare not admit any priuate interpretation but take héede vnto the worde as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place for that is the daye starre which is risen in our harts Therefore we presume not to vnderstand aboue that which
manye suche hobbers now adayes God giue vs grace to beware by your example and to take héede of such cold play Hardyng ¶ As for your respectes to saye truely I neuer knew what they were At the gaming of your Gospell you shote to strike downe the true and reall body of Christ onâ— of the blessed sacrament of the aulter with certaine phrases of spech with telling the people of your tropes and figures with comparing the Eucharist to the baptisme with making the preseÌ„ce of Christ like in both You bend your force to strike away the eternall and singuler sacrifice of the church with such a sort and forme as I hetherto neuer vsed and yet thinke to be very straunge as for example with teaching as you do that missa signifieth not the masse but your CoÌ„munioÌ„ that Eucharistia is to be taken not for the sacrament consecrate but for common bread wherewith one Bishop did present another That Melchisedech and Malachias signified the sacrifice of your coÌ„munion wherat the people lift vp their handes and hartes as you say vnto heauen praieth and sacrificeth togither reioysing in the Lorde That in the sacrament of the aultar ther is no vertue nor grace but when it is vsed no more then in water after that one is baptised That ther is no difference betwixt the priest and the people in the holy ministerie of the sacrifice and that lay folke meÌ„ and women do make the sacrifice and be priestes after the order of Melchisedech that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin Many other such sortes and formes of shooting you and your companions vse at this daye with which I was neuer acquainted as nether any man liuing can burthen me and God is witnesse which to me is a sufficient discharge Wherfore you do me the greater wrong in that you say I taught your Cospell euen in like sorte and forme and in all respectes as it is taught nowe Dering But you procéede at your rouers and tel an vncertaine tale of the respectes of your preachinges You saye you neuer preached against transubstanciation These are vaine repetitions to fill vp your paper How coulde you preach against such filthynesse of the Sea of Rome that were alwaies hobbing and neuer preached out Christ in the simplicitye of his Gospell I am easily perswaded that you neuer did it seing whervnto you are againe returned But whether you did it or no one day it shalbe reuealed All these pointes here alledged are fully discussed in Maister Iuells Replye And good reader leaue of hobbers instruction with the formest shootâ— at the very marke which is Iesus Christ and thou shalt soone perceiue what is his truth Now for thy better instruction I will speake of those markes which are laid out as breâ—fly as I can First this transubstanciation was first mentioned in the councell of Laterane .1215 yeare after Christ. And corpus Christi daye instituted in Vrbanus tyme more then .40 yeares after that So thou séest the antiquity is but of late yeares it hath no warrant in scriptures as their owne doctors Fisher Biell and Scotus doo witnesse How it disagreeth both from scriptures and Doctours M. Iuels Reply hath aboundantlye taught thée Yet for thy better furtherance I will laye before thee for thyne instruction certaine of those places which ouerturne this fonde Doctrine Thou must first consider that this sacrament and Baptisme are the two sacraments that Christ hath left vnto his church which two were prefigured in the olde lawe baptisme in circumcision especially and the Eucharist in the pascall Lambe Now for the true vnderstanding of these Sacramentes thou must remember that the Scripture vseth in them suche a phrase of speakinge that the thynge signified is giuen vnto the signe So of Circumcision whych God had commaunded Abraham the scripture expressely saith this is my couenant yet was it the signe of his couenaunt Of the pascall Lambe it is saide this is the Lordes passeouer yet was it but a token of the passage of the Angell Likewyse of the rock Paul speaketh The rocke was Christ which was yet but a figure of Christ and the sacrifices are saide to be the purifiynges yet were they but a token of ther sanctification And as this was spoken thus in the figure so it is now in the truth S. Paule calleth baptisme lauacrum regenerationis the washinge of the new birth yet it is but a signe of the inward renewynge of the holye Ghost In like sorte it is written baptizare c. he baptised and washed away thy sinnes Yet baptisme was but a token that his sinnes were washt away So Peter baptismus nos quoque saluos reddit yet it is but the seale of our saluation The holy Ghost must come vpon them before they receiue grace In like maner it is saide of the other parte of this Sacrament This cuppe yet the holye Ghost meaneth the wine It is sayd further this cup is the new Testament yet the wyne is not the same but a token of it The newe testameÌ„t is that God is our God and we are his people that he hath forgiuen our iniquity and that he will remember our sinnes no more But wo be vnto that man that shall looke onelye to be saued by that which is in the Priestes Chalice What madnesse is it then séeing this maner of speaking is so vsuall to the Sacraments to choose onely this sentence of our Sauiour Christ this is my body which thou wilt receiue with out figure when neither the scripture it selfe doth alowe it nor the phrase of the spirite of God so often vttered vnto vs doth inforce it I neede not here to recite the playne sayinges themselues which literally layed togither can not stand this is my body saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which now giuen for you yet Christes body was not then betrayed So saint Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is broken for you yet was not his body then crucified whereby they are inforced yea euen in the same sentence to forsake the letter And for the better assuraunce that we may doe this vpon a good warrant we haue the exposition of our sauiour Chirst it is the spirite that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing The words that I speake vnto you are spirite and life And saint Paule doth cal it bread euen when it is ministred The bread which we breake is it not the communion of the bodye of Christ This is sufficient for him that will vnderstand how these woordes are taken this is my body He that wil yet stick vnto the letter let him further consider the saying of Saint Paule that the letter killeth and manye other sayings of the scripture which be in like maner as thys is spoken of our sauiour Christ. The woord was made flesh saith S. Iohn yet the deitie of Christ which is the woorde was not turned into man My Father
And oure Sauiour Christ. Euen Moyses in whome you trust he shall accuse you So that if Mayster Harding had this confidence he woulde séeme to haue yet had he not the truth But euen as the Prophete sayde we myght saye of hym posuit vt Adamantem cor suum he hath made hys heart euen as the Adamant stone But his vayne assuraunce shall bée as the dust that is blowne away with the wynde Thoughe he saye peace peace yet there shall be no peace Though he cry the Church the Church yet their wicked Sinagog is not the Church The prowde Citie did say I am and none else Yet was shee sinne iniquitie and nothing else The Prophetes sayde swoorde and famine shall not be in thys land Yet by swoorde and famine those Prophets were consumed Sith then it is so that the wicked may haue this vaine trust let vs not bée deceyued with eyther bolde or entysing woordes Let vs not be wyse in our owne conceyte let vs lay no foundation of our fayth other then is alreadye layd but let vs looke after Chryst Iesu and learne what is hys wyll let vs searche in his holye woorde and séeke what is our wisedome So shall neyther the spirite of errour violentlye drawe vs captiues nor vayne imaginations leade vs away Wee shall be followers of Iesu Christ the righteous and wee shall walke as they doe that haue hym for theyr example we shall care for those thinges that are aboue and wée shall haue our conuersation in heauen from whence also we looke for a Sauiour euen the Lorde Iesu Christ who shall make our vyle bodye that it may be fashioned lyke vnto his glorious bodye which tyme for his mercye sake he vouchsafe to hasten who of his mercy hath ordeyned vs vnto that kindgome where he lyueth one God and thrée persons the father the sonne and the holye ghost to whome bée all honour and glorye worlde without ende Amen A sparing restraint of many lauishe vntruthes which maister D. Harding would finde in the first article of the Bishop of Sarisburies Replie by Edward Dering student in diuinitie The B. of Sarisburie Mayster Harding maketh his first entrye with a Cauill Harding The .1 vntruth It is no Cauill Dering NOW MAISTER HARDING hath so diligently examined this first article searched out as he sayth many and great vntruthes I must craue of thée which art the indifferent reader to yéeld vnto those thinges whiche he can not blame and to acknowledge it for true which he can not controll Of this shalt thou haue this great benefite that when thou hast duely tryed all that is written thou shalt cleaue in the ende to the truer part and finde the saluation of thine owne soule Read them with an indifferent iudgement and beleue as the spirite of God shall moue thée If Mayster Harding say true that in this first article there be .225 vntruthes for my part I craue no parcialitie saye boldly Mayster Iuell is not as he pretendeth But if this be false and Mayster Hardings report be altogither slaunderous then pray that he may soone repent and confesse that godly and learned Bishop to be a faythfull labourer in the haruest of the Lord. This first vntruth is that Mayster Harding in his aunswere beginneth not with a Cauill The question is moued whether within the space of .600 yeares after Christ there were any priuate Masse Mayster Harding maketh answere that euery Masse concerning the oblacion and Communion is common as likewise it is concerning the first institution and will of the Priest But in consideration of place tyme audience purpose rytes and other circumstances it may be priuate The vntruth lyeth whether this answere be a cauill Here we may aunswere two wayes One after the common vse of speaking an other after the nature of the worde For our common speach it is certaine we call that a cauill which is a drawing of any word knowne wel inough into a straūge signification as Mayster Harding vseth here his Masse For who knoweth not that by priuate Masse we doe meane that which the priest practiseth alone at the altare Nowe here to come in with this distinction which I wéene neuer before was heard of what is it else but to Cauill Thus if we follow the common speach of men this is no vntruth If it lyke M. Harding to sticke vnto the nature of the worde let vs examine it and so sée whether this distinction be a Cauill Cauillatio saith the Lawyer est subdola ratio quam conscij nobis mendacii proferimus a Cauill is a subtile reasoning which we our selues know is false but yet we vse it Nowe if this distinction be false and that Mayster Harding know well ynough then is it manifestly a cauill The distinction is this Euery Masse by institution will of the priest oblation communion is common as touching persons place time c. it may be priuate Nowe first whether the Masse by institution be common Gabriel Biel sayth as touching the substaunce and first institution of the Masse there is nothing necessarie but in the thing bread and wine in the priest orders good pronunciation and a pure will These being rightly had in all places at all tymes whether any be present or no Missa rite celebratur verum est sacrificium The Masse is truely celebrate there is a true sacrifice therfore Masse by institution is not common If Mayster Harding will replie and say that euen in such Masses the sacrifice is effectuall to the whole Church and so the Masse is common that aunswere were very childish and would bréed dissention in their own church For both G. Biel denieth it in plaine wordes and the thing it selfe altogither disagréeth Biel sayth impeditur tamen fructus eò quòd inordinatè indignè consecratur sumitur though the Masse be a true Masse yet there is no fruite of it for as much as consecration and communion are vnorderly and vnworthily ministred And for the thing it selfe M. Harding knoweth the benefite of his Masse is so applied if their be one to aunswere in the name of the people but in these Masses it is not required that anye one be present to make aunswere It followeth then that some Masse by no meanes is common and so Ma. Hardings distinction is a cauill I passe ouer for breuitie the beginning of this Masse how it hath nothing of the Apostles And before the sixt Synode of Constantinople no part of it was euer song in Latine but this spoken of Biels authoritie is proufe sufficient for thys present purpose The seconde thing that we haue to consider is whether the Masse be common by will of the priest or no. And thys question though it be hard to decyde yet we may haue some probable coniecture why the priest doth not alway meane to bestow his deuocion vpon euery man We haue had a common prouerbe rising vpon the disagréement
vntruth Solennia doeth not import a solemne companie Dering Yet it séemeth so Maister Harding to as wel learned as you are But this is your common fashion to belie Maister Iuels words and then to say they be vntrue Yt séemeth saith he to import a solemne coÌ„panie What if it be not so yet it séemeth so But what if it doe import a great companie What if it can not stande with your priuate Masse Sure then is Soters decrée not worth alleaging as your vntruthe is not worth the quoting The reason that you bring out of Tullie were it not in your booke yet by the value I would gesse it yours Solemne say you doeth signifie sometime a custome Ergo when it is attributed to an action it doeth not import a companie This is verie like one of your owne arguments it hangeth so losely For the antecedent is false and the argument doth not follow But why speaketh Maister Harding against his owne knowledge he is assured it is not named in matters of religion but it signifieth a great company of persons and muche sumptuousnesse of the things so ill may his priuate Masse be solennis Mos solennis sacrarum saith Lucretius the solempne and sumptuous manner of the sacrifices And Virgil calleth them arae solennes many and costly altares so pompae solennes burials in solemne order vota solennia vowes made solemnly in the company of many and Tullie Solenne statutum sacrificium a sacrifice done sumptuously and appointed times and in M. Hardings Portuise sacris solennijs iuncta sunt gaudia to solemne seruice there is annexed ioyes This aucthoritie is sufficient against master Harding He wil say nothing I trow against his Portuise If he wil we will then charge him with the Popes owne aucthoritie Innocentius tertius shewing the cause why in their single holydayes they say not the Créede nor Gloria in excelsis as wel as they do on their double feasts wryteth thus vt inter commemorationem solennitatem differentiam ostendatur that there may be a difference betwéene a commemoration and a solemnitie Loe héere is Pope Innocent flat against maister Harding concerning the nature of the word and yet he is content to speake euen as Soter doth and say of the other Masses missarum solennia Thus we sée these vntruthes sometime can not agrée nether with their holy father the Pope neither yet with the Portuise The B. of Saris. Soter requireth to this action only the company of three Harding The .147 vntruthe He requireth not .iij. but .ij. at the least Dering Note good reader this vntruthe is now twise made in the 144. vntruthe and againe here Yet if thou way it well thou shalt sée it was not worth repetition In the other place the sense was very obscure and here the words are very strauÌ„ge To make this solemne Masse saith M. Iuel iii. are required Not so saith M. Harding the priest requireth but two to make answere But what if it happen that these two haue a thirde priest to say the Masse Soter séemeth to meane so when he saith vt sit ipse tertius that the priest may be the thirde I can not tel all their misteries It may be they haue a custome that two may make answere when no man sayth the Masse Or if they haue not then this is not vntrue The B. of Saris. It may be doubted whether dominus vobiscum were parte of the Liturgie in Soters time Harding The .148 vntruthe This cannot be wel and reasonably doubted Dering If well and reasonably doe not helpe out this vntruthe it hathe then neither goodnesse nor shew of probabilitie Now what well and reasonably may doe in this matter it shall well and reasonably appeare if you marke Damasus woords he saith there was nothing red in the Churche on sundayes sauing some Epistle of the Apostle and some chapter of the Gospell If Damasus say true then it may be doubted bothe well and reasonably whether Dominus vobiscum were red or noe This saying of Damasus maister Iuel dothe alledge and vpon little searche it will easily appeare by all Ecclesiasticall recordes that in Soters time and many yeares after there was no other solemnitie in their ministration sauing reading or expounding the scriptures and some prayers which the whole congregation did make together some say that Peter vsed to celebrate with the Lordes prayer only Paule did preache vnto them as appeareth in the Actes Iustine speaking of the Communion in his time â–ª saith Post precationem nos salutamus osculo mutuo deinde affertur precipuo fratri panis caâ—ix aqua dilutus c. After our prayers we salute one an other with a kisse then the bread is brought to the chiefest brother and the cuppe of wine and water Then the mynister giueth thanks vnto God in the name of the Sonne and of the holy ghost and the whole people doe answere Amen And if these words are not yet plaine inough by which we may doubt whether Dominus vobiscum were then in the Liturgie Iustine saith againe Die solis vrbanorum rusticorum coetus fiunt vbi apostolorum prophetarumque litera quoad fieri potest preleguntur c. On sunday we haue our metings bothe of the towne and the countrey where the Apostâ—es and prophets wrytings are red vnto vs so long as time wil serue then our mynister dothe make an exâ—ortation willing vs to folow the vertue and goodnesse whereof we reade Then we rise altogether and make our prayers Lâ—e héere is a full description of the Communion in Iustinus Martyr who liued in Soters time And yet in all this not one word making mention of Dominus vobiscum yet is maister Harding so importune in his vntruthes that he dareth boldly affirme and yet hath no grounde that Dominus vobiscum was then parte of their seruice Let him shewe but one sufficient recorde for proofe of that he wryteth and let him haue his vntruthe I know our decretall Epistles would be of this age and they defile Gods sacraments as becommeth that adulterous generation But those epistles as I haue sufficiently already shewed are far vnworthy those godly fathers whose names they beare The B. of Saris. Further this same Soter requireth that bothe these two and as many others as be present make answere vnto the priest Harding The .149 vntruthe He requireth it not this is vtterly false Dering Note good reader maister Hardings impudencie and take héede of his lying spirite he saith very censoure like this is vtterly false and in his Reioinder raileth much at M. Iuel for falsifying the Doctours and yet most impudently he dothe vtterly belie him Read his booke he doth not bring one letter to proue that he saith Belike he is wel persuaded his friends wil beleue him if he doe but say the worde but to bring some proofe against maister Hardings bare word vpon these words of Soter let him haue two at the least to aunswere
if they be moe saith maister Iuel then by Soters will they must all answer Upon this master Harding falleth in his railing vaine and saith it is vtterly false But let him say so his mouthe is no slaunder The gloser on this Decrée moueth a doubt whether these two should be ministers or lay men or of what sort else And he answereth that it is plaine inough they shold be mynisters Yet saith he again that is not certaine quia populus respondent Amen For all the people must likewise answer Amen Loe heâ—re y e glose doth flatly verifie this vntruth And in an other place Gracian speaking of the people which heare their common prayer saith thus populus adâ—d quod planè intelligit respondeat Amen let the people say Amen to that they do plainly vnderstand Héere beside that the seruice must be in a knowne tong Gracian saith plainly al the people must say Amen In this next vntruthe before the like is shewed out of Iustinus that all the people must say Amen the same may be proued by all the wryters of that age notwithstanding M. Harding to kéepe tale of his vntruâ—hes against Gracian against the glose against Iustinus Mâ—rtyr against al recordes saith it is vtterly false But examine the places and so trie his credite The B. of Saris. By M. Hardings minde the Priests deuotion ought not to stay for lacke of companie Harding The .150 vntruthe There can no suche meaning be gathered of my words Dering This as it may be thought is a very plaine vntruthe maister Iuel reporting that of maister Harding which him selfe saith can not be gathered of his words But bicause he hathe bene often found faultie in as bolde asseuerations as this is it shall not be amisse to sée his woords Thus he saith Well none commeth this is not a sufficient cause why the godly priest enflamed with the loue of God féeling him self hungry and thirsty after the heauenly foode and drinke shold be kept from it And haue not these words a good plain meaning May not one reporte of these words that a priest may say Masse alone Why then dothe he score vp this vntruthe Forsoothe héere is a distinction of no bodies comming either no body may come to answer or no body may come to receiue and M. Harding meaneth y t the priest may goe forwarde though no body come to receiue After this sort I thinke spake Heraclitus when he would haue no body to vnderstand him But this is no plain dealing to speake first so doubtfully and then score vp an vntruth if one vnderstand it not And thus much grauÌ„ting this distinction of no body If thou require further discharge of this vntruthe I will shewe thee good proofe why M. Iuels saying ought not to be blamed notwithstanding this distinction Lâ—ke on Soters decrée thou shalt sée the glose alleageth his Canon law to proue that the priest may sometime celebrate if he haue but one present sometime if there be no mâ— but him selfe This then being established by their lawe that the Priest may say Masse alone maister Hardings vntruthe may controll the Pope it maketh little against maister Iuel The B. of Saris. By this decree these two were bound to receiue or to departe Harding The .151 vntruthe That decree bindeth only the clergie Dering Before we had a distinction of no body now to quite that barren matter héere is a distinction of all men Let all men receiue saith Calixtus or goe out of the Church that is saith maister Harding all men of the clergie not all men of the laitie Thus neither all thing nor nothing nor something nor any thing shall want a distinction if by plaine dealing the matter be not good But O maister Harding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 true speache is playne Nowe for the Christian Reader least these distinctions should deceiue thee I must now and then admonishe â—â—ée that they be but false stuffe and this shall well appeare in this present matter if I teache thée that in the primatiue Churche there did none abide that did not Communicate When Christ did first institute his supper it was so all that were present did Communicate He gaue commaundement that it should be so vsed and said Drinke ye all of this And that the Apostles and those other who bebeloued did thâ—s it appeareth in the Actes where without exceptiâ—n S. Luke saith they continued daily in breaking of breade And againe they met together to breake bread This was after obserued among the Corinthians as appeareth by S. Paule who plainely teacheth that they come together to eate the Lordes supper and least we shoulde thinke any excepted in the verses folowing he addeth euery one And for a further proofe of his meaning he biddeth them one tary for an other By all this it is certaine that all that were present receiued Upon this saith Calixtus let all receiue that will not depart out of the Church And he bringeth a reason to this Decrée Sic enim apostoli statuerunt For so the Apostles haue appoynted from the Apostles time through all ages till iniquitie beganne to haue the vpper hande it was alwayes an holy lawe For all that were present to Communicate And it is condemned of the fathers as great presumption and impudencie to looke on and be no partaker as it is other where sufficiently declared And were not maister Harding set on euill vnderstanding he would learne by that vse of the primatiue Churche when they sent away Catechumeni those that were beginners in Christianitie that it was not lawfull for any to be an idle looker on Sure in his priuate Masse they may loke on that list For this vntruthe bicause Calixtus him selfe dothe referre vs to the Apostles example when maister Harding can proue by the Apostles that those whome S. Luke mentioneth to haue daily mette and the Corinthians to whome S. Paule wryteth to haue bene all ministers then these distinctions of all men and no body shal goe for good Read the .221 vntruthe The B. of Saris. It is determined by the glose that these two were Priests or Deacons and so this decree of Soter agreeth with an other of Anacletus Harding The .152 vntruth It is not assuredly determined by the glose The .153 vntruthe It agreeth not Dering If this assuredly doe not helpe out with an vntruthe then assuredly this is no vntruthe but for as muche as assuredly is put in by maister Harding assuredly this is no plaine dealing and sure it is if suche vnsure demeanor wer taken from maister Hardings assured vntruthes the surety of good religion shold in déede appeare and this vnsauery wrangling shold be contemned for this vntruthe it is altogether shamelesse The glose moueth this question whether these two should be of the clergie or of the laitie or of either one and it maketh this answere satis videtur quod debent esse duo clerici
impudens est procax Whosoeuer is present and dothe not Communicate he is shamelesse and malapert And in diuers places he warneth them to cease their euil doing with oft repetition of the dreadfull mysteries And to what purpose were that if they receiued not commonly The aucthoritie that is alleaged out of Augustine is taken out of Ambrose and it may wel be answered with the aucthoritie againe of Augustine taken out of Cyprian Hunc panem dari nobis quotidie postulamus c. This bread saith he we desire that it may be daily giuen vnto vs. c. Least while we be denied that heauenly breade we be seperate from the bodye of Christ. Héereby it appeareth in their assemblies the most of them receiued and to this effecte maister Iuel dothe alleage Conc. Matisc. 2 cap. 40. Concil Antisiodor Can. 42. Car. mag lib. 6. cap. 162. Now how so euer it liketh maister Harding to accept it all this must néedes stande for sufficient proofe For this seconde vntruthe héere brought that the contrarye is shewed by sundry recordes of this that we haue said it appeareth that this shewe as it is againe shewed is nothing worth Therefore the vse of receiuing in those dayes was as it is recorded euery sunday at the least but the receiuing in the Popes dayes is euery Easter and so both these vntruths are become none The B. of Saris. It was decreed by a councell holden at Gerunda in Spaine that all litle Churches in the countrey shold confourme them selues vnto the great cathedrall churches that were in cities and townes as well for order of the Communion as also for singing and other ministration But by M. Hardings owne graunt there was no priuate Masse in the cathedrall Churches Harding The .165 vntruth That councell speaketh neuer a vvorde in that canon of the Communion The .166 vntruthe I neuer made any suche graunt Dering Beleue not this mannes saying gentle reader if thou loue thine owne soule Marke first the aucthorities ere thou credite his reporte The words of the councel are these vt institutio missarum sicut in Metropolitana ecclesia agitur ita in dei nomine in omni Terraconensi prouincia tam ipsius missae ordo quam psallendo vel ministrando consuetudo seruetur That the institution of Masses euen as it is done in the Metropolitane Churches so in the name of God we wil that in al the prouince of Terraconia the same custome be kept in order in singing and in mynistration This canon is reported by Gracian who in stead of Terraconia putteth in all prouinces least maister Harding should make exception of any one countrey But saith he this decrée speaketh neuer a worde of the Communion Yet this decrée hath these expresse woords The institution of the Masse the order the maner of singing and the mynistration And the title of this decrée in Gracian is this as in the cathedrall Churches sic vbique missarum solennia celebrentur so euery where let the solemnitie of the Masse be kept and the glose saith Ostendit quod missa non debet aliter celebrari quam in Metropolitana ecclesia he sheweth that the Masse must be celebrated no otherwise than in the cathedrall Churches If the Communion in the Masse be no part of the institution nor order nor ministration it is a strange Communion and it is a straunge Masse that may be instituted and ministred without it But be it that this were so is maister Harding so vncourteous to his close Communion that he wil haue it no part of the solemnitie of his Masse He doth thē deserue very ill of it For it hath more prety gestures than all the Masse beside But what if maister Harding will denye all this What if he care neither for councel nor yet for Gracian What if he say it is no part of the institution order ministration nor yet of the solemnitie yet he cannot auoid y e glose that speaketh expresly without naming any circumstaunce that the Masse must be celebrate no otherwise in small Churches than it is in the Metropolitane churche Now except M. Harding do meane to teache vs by these distinctions that the Communion is no parte of the Masse it must be ministred in all Churches alike This is a miserable cause that M. Harding hath that to defend it must either fall into this absurditie that the Communion is no part neither of the institution of the Masse nor of the manner of singing nor of the order nor of the ministration nor of the solemnity nor of the Masse it self or else he must confesse this is no vntruth Now where he saith further for this other vntruth that he made no suche graunt that in cathedrall Churches there was no priuate Masse if it be true what a vain argument made he when he gessed at priuate Masse in little villages by the vse of Cathedral churches Reasoning after this sort that séeing ther were so few Communicants in the great citie of Antioche what was to be thought of small parishes Héere may wel appeare a secrete graunt that priuate Masses must be had in small townes in the countrey or else no where The B. of Saris. It appeareth by most certaine and vndoubted proofes that the people did receiue then euery sunday Harding The .167 vnt It appeareth not by ought that here is brought Dering In the .157 vntruthe master Harding said this was a foule vntruthe Héere he saith it is vntrue for ought that héere is brought so he somwhat qualifieth his former saying But yet this doing is straunge bicause the thing is certaine to make exception against the proofe more modestie might well haue yelded vnto the truthe How be it considering it is M. Hardings doing it is y e more sufferable Poets and painters may not be limitted in their inuentiōs But least the christian reader should be deceiued and haue some confidence of this vntruthe bicause it is twise reckened let vs sée these proofes which maister Harding saith are so vnsufficient The one is Decernimus vt omnibus dominicis diebus c. We decrée that euery sunday the oblation of the aultar be made of euery mā and woman This aucthority séemeth very sufficient if y e time do preiudice it in that thi◠councell was holden more than C. yeares after the councell of Agatha maister Harding must vnderstand it is an argument Minorae They receiued euery sunday in the time of the councel holden at Matiscona Ergo muche rather when the councel was at Agatha And in déede from that time our sauior Christ ascēded vntill the Pope sate aloft in the Church of God euery age as it was nearer vnto Christes time so they had more commonly their Communions The second profe y t M. Iuel bringeth is this vnaquaeque mulier c. Euery womā when she doth communicate let hir haue hir Dominical If she haue it not let hir not Communicate vsque in alium diem