your grand Reformer Luther lib. de Concilijs part prima sayth that he vnderstands not the Holy Ghost in that Councell For in one Canon it sayth that those who haue gelded themselues are not fit to be made Priests in another it forbids them to haue wiues Hath sayth he the Holy Ghost nothing to doe in Councells but to binde and loade his Ministers which impossblie dangerous and vnnecessary lawes I forbeare to shew that this very Article I confesse one Baptisme for the remission of sinnes wil be vnderstood by Protestants in a farre different sense from Catholiques yea Protestants among themselues doe not agree how Baptisme forgiues sinnes nor what grace it confers Only concerning the Vnity of Baptisme against rebaptization of such as were once baptized which I noted as a point not contained in the Apostles Creed I cannot omit an excellent place of S. Augustine where speaking of the Donatists he hath these words They are so bold as (m) lib. de Haeres in 69. to rebaptize Catholiques wherein they shew themselues to be the greater Heretiques since it hath pleased the vniuersall Catholique Church not to make Baptisme void euen in the very Heretiques thēselues In which few words this holy Father deliuereth agaynst the Donatists these points which doe also make against Protestants That to make an Heresy or an Heretique knowne for such it is sufficient to oppose the definition of Gods Church That a proposition may be Hereticall though it be not repugnant to any Texts of Scripture For S. Augustine teacheth that the doctrine of rebaptization is hereticall and yet acknowledgeth it cannot be cōuinced for such out of Scripture And that neyther the Heresy of rebaptization of those who were baptized by Heretiques nor the contrary Catholique truth being expressed in the Apostles Creed it followeth that it doth not containe all points of fayth necessary to saluation And so we must conclude that to belieue the Creed is not sufficient for Vnity of fayth and Spirit in the same Church vnles there be also a totall agreement both in beliefe of other points of fayth and in externall profession and Communion also wherof we are to speake in the next Chapter according to the saying of S. Augustine You are (n) Aug. ep 48. with vs in Baptisme and in the Creed but in the Spirit of Vnity and bond of peace and lastly in the Catholique Church you are not with vs. CHAP. V. That Luther Caluin their associates and all vvho began or continue the separation from the externall Cōmunion of the Roman Church are guilty of the proper and formall sinne of Schisme THE Searcher of all Hearts is witnesse with how vnwilling mindes we Catholiques are drawne to fasten the denomination of Schismatiques or Heretiques on them for whoses soules if they employed their best bloud they would iudge that it could not be better spent If we reioyce that they are contristated at such titles our ioy riseth not from their trouble or griefe but as that of the Apostles did from the fountaine of Charity because they are contristated to repentance that so after vnpartiall examination they finding themselues to be what we say may by Gods holy grace beginne to dislike what themselues are For our part we must remember that our obligation is to keep within the meane betwixt vncharitable bitternes pernicious flatery not yielding to worldly respects nor offending Christian Modesty but vttering the substance of truth in so Caritable manner that not so much we as Truth and Charity may seeme to speake according to the wholesome aduise of S. Gregory Nazianzen in these diuine words We doe not affect peace with (a) Orat. 32. preiudice of the true doctrine that so we may get a name of being gentle and milde yet we seeke to conserue peace fighting in a lawfull manner and contayning our selues within our compasse and the rule of Spirit And of these thinges my iudgement is and for my part I prescribe the same Law to all that deale with soules and treate of true doctrine that neyther they exasperate mens minds by harshnes nor make thē haughty or insolent by submission but that in the cause of fayth they behaue themselues prudently and aduisedly and doe not in eyther of these things exceed the meane With whome agreeth S. Leo saying It be houeth vs in such causes to be (b) Epist 8. most carefull that without noise of contentions both Charity be conserued and Truth maintayned 2. For better Methode we will handle these points in order First we will set downe the nature and essence or as I may call it the Quality of Schisme In the second place the greatnes grieuousnes or so to terme it the Quantity thereof For the Nature or Quality will tell vs who may without iniury be iudged Schismatiques and by the greatnes or quantity such as find themselues guilty therof will remaine acquainted with the true state of their soule and whether they may conceiue any hope of saluation or no. And because Schisme wil be found to be a diuision from the Church which could not happen vnles there were alwayes a visible Church we wil Thirdly proue or rather take it as a point to be granted by all Christians that in all ages there hath been such a Visible Congregation of Faythfull People Fourthly we will demonstrate that Luther Caluin and the rest did separate themselues from the Communion of that alwayes visible Church of Christ and therfore were guilty of Schisme And fifthly we will make it euident that the visible true Church of Christ out of which Luther and his followers departed was no other but the Roman Church consequently that both they and all others who persist in the same diuision are Schismatiques by reason of their separation from the Church of Rome 3. For the first point touching the Nature 1. Point or Quality of Schisme as the naturall perfection of man consists in his being the image of God his Creator by the powers of his soule so his supernaturall perfection is placed in similitude with God as his last End and Felicity The nature of Schisme and by hauing the said spirituall faculties his Vnderstanding and Will linked to him His Vnderstanding is vnited to God by Fayth his Will by Charity The former relies vpon his infallible Truth The latter carrieth vs to his infinite Goodnes Fayth hath a deadly opposite Heresy Contrary to the Vnion or Vnity of Charity is Separation and Diuision Charity is twofold As it respects God his Opposite Vice is Hatred against God as it vniteth vs to our Neighbour his contrary is Separation or diuision of affections and will from our Neighbour Our Neighbour may be considered either as one priuate person hath a single relation to another or as all concur to make one Company or Congregation which we call the Church and this is the most principall reference and Vnion of one man with another because the chiefest Vnity is that
3. Christ three bundred and sixteen God hath withdrawne his visible Church from open Assemblies to the hearts of particular godly men c. during the space of one thousand two hundred threescore yeares And that the (g) Ibid. in cap. 11. pag 145. Pope and Clergy haue possessed the outward visible Church of Christians euen one thousand two hundred threescore yeares And that the (h) Ibid. pag. 191. true Church aboad latent and inuisible And Brocard (i) fol. 110. 123. vpon the Reuelations professeth to ioyne in opinion with Napier Fulke affirmeth that in the (k) Answere to a counterfait Cath. pag. 16. tyme of Boniface the third which was the yeare 607. the Church was inuisible and fled into the wilernes there to remaine a long season Luther sayth Primò solus eram At the first (l) In praefat operum suorum I was alone Iacob Hailbronerus one of the Disputants for the Protestant party in the Conference at Ratisbone affirmeth (m) In suo Acacatholico volum a. 15. cap. 9. p. 479. that the true Church was interrupted by Apostasy from the true Fayth Caluin sayth It is absurd in the very (n) Ep. 141. beginning to breake one from another after we haue beene forced to make a separation from the whole world It were ouerlong to alledge the wordes of Ioannes Regius Daniel Chamierus Beza Ochimus Castalio and others to the same purpose The reason which cast them vpon this wicked doctrine was a desperate voluntary necessity because they being resolued not to acknowledg the RomaÌ„ Church to be Christs true Church yet being conuinced by all manner of euidence for that diuers Ages before Luther there was no other Congregation of Christians which could be the Church of Christ there was no remedy but to affirme that vpon earth Christ had no visible Church which they would neuer haue auouched if they had known how to auoyd the foresayd inconuenience as they apprehended it of submitting themselues to the Roman Church 10. Agaynst these exterminating spirits D. Potter and other more moderate Protestants professe that Christ alwayes had and alwayes will haue vpon earth a visible Church othertherwise sayth he our Lords (o) pag. 154 promise of her stable (p) Matt. 16 1â—â— edification should be of no value And in another place hauing affirmed that ProtestaÌ„tes haue not left the Church of Rome but her corruptions and acknowledging her still to be a member of Christs body he seeketh to cleere himselfe and others from Schisme because saith he the property (q) pag. 76. of Schisme is witnesse the Donatists and Luciferians to cut off from the Body of Christ the hope of saluation the Church froÌ„ which it separates And if any Zelotes amongst vs haue proceeded to he auier censures their zeale may be excused but their Charity and wisedome cannot be iustifyed And elswhere he acknowledgeth that the Roman Church hath those maine and (r) Pag. 83. essentiall truths which giue her the name and essence of a Church 11. It being therefore granted by D. Potter and the chiefest and best learned English Protestants that Christs visible Church cannot perish it will be needles for me in this occasion to proue it S. Augustine doubted not to say The Prophets (s) In Psalm 30. Com. 2. spoke more obscurely of Christ then of the Church because as I thinke they did foresee in spirit that men were to make parties agaynst the Church and that they were not to haue so great strife concerning Christ therefore that was more plainely foretold more openly prophecyed about which greater contentions were to rise that it might turne to the condemnation of them who haue seen it and yet gone forth And in another place he sayth How doe we confide (t) epist. 48. to haue receaued manifestly Christ himselfe from holy Scriptures if we haue also manifestly receaued the Church from them And indeed to what CongregatioÌ„ shall a man haue recourse for the affaires of his soule if vpon earth there be no visible Church of Christ Besides to imagine a company of men belieuing one thing in their hart and with their mouth professing the contrary as they must be supposed to doe for if they had professed what they belieued they would haue become visible is to dreame of a damned crew of dissembling Sycophants but not to conceiue a right notioÌ„ of the Church of Christ our Lord. And therefore S. Augustine sayth We cannot be saued vnles labouring also for the (u) S. Aug. de fide Symbolo c. 1. saluation of others we professe with our mouths the same fayth which we beare in our harts And if any man hold it lawfull to dissemble deny matters of fayth we cannot be assured but that they actually dissemble and hide Anabaptisme Arianisme yea Turcisme euen Atheisme or any other false beliefe vnder the outward profession of Caluinisme Doe not Protestants teach that preaching of the word and administration of Sacraments which caÌ„not but make a Church visible are inseparable notes of the true Church And therfore they must eyther grant a visible Church or none at all No wonder then if S. Augustine account this Heresy so grosse that he sayth against those who in his tyme defended the like errour But this Church which (w) In Psal 101. hath beene of all Nations is no more she hath perished so say they that are not in her O impudent speach And afterward This voyce so abominable so detestable so full of presumption and falshood which is susteined with no truth enlightned with no wisdome seasoned with no salt vaine rash heady pernicious the Holy Ghost fore saw c. And Peraduenture some (x) De ouib cap. 1. one may say there are other Sheepe I know not where with which I am not acquainted yet God hath care of them But he is too absurd in humane sense that can imagine such things And these men do not consider that while they deny the perpetuity of a visible Church they destroy their owne present Church according to the argument which S. Augustine vrged against the Donatists in these words (y) De Bapt. cont Donat. If the Church were lost in Cyprians we may say in Gregories time from whence did Donatus Luther appeare From what earth did he spring from what sea is he come From what heauen did he drop And in another place How can they vaunt (z) Lib. 3. cont Parm. to haue any Church if she haue ceased euer since those times And all Deuines by defining Schisme to be a diuision from the true Church suppose that there must be a knowne Church from which it is possible for men depart But enough of this in these few words 12. Let vs now come to the fourth 4. Point and chiefest Point which was to examine whether Luther Caluin Luther and all that follow him are Schismatiques and the rest did not depart from the externall
not cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation whereas those other Zealots deny her to be a member of Christs Body or capable of saluation wherin alone they disagree from D. Potter for in the effect of separation they agree only they do it vpon a different motiue or reason Were it not a strang excuse if a man would thinke to cloake his rebellion by alledging that he held the person against whom he rebelled to be his lawfull Soueraygne And D. Potter thinkes himselfe free from Schisme because he forsooke the Church of Rome but yet so as that stil he held her to be the true Church and to haue all necessary meanes to Saluation But I will no further vrge this most solemne foppery and doe much more willingly put all Catholiques in mind what an vnspeakeable comfort it is that out Aduersaries are forced to confesse that they cannot cleere themselues from Schisme otherwise then by acknowledging that they do not nor cannot cut off from the Hope of saluation our Church Which is as much as if they should in plaine termes say They must be damned vnlesse we may be saued Moreouer this euasion doth indeed condemne your zealous Brethren of Heresy for denying the Churches perpetuity but doth not cleere your selfe from Schisme which consists in being diuided from that true Church with which a man agreeth in all points of fayth as you must professe your selfe to agree with the Church of Rome in all fundamentall Articles For other wise you should cut her off from the hope of saluation and so condemne your selfe of Schisme And lastly euen according to the your owne definition of Schisme you cannot cleere your selfe from that crime vnlesse you be content to acknowledge a manifest contradiction in your owne Assertions For if you do not cut vs off from the Body of Christ and the Hope of saluation how come you to say in another place that you iudge a reconciliation with vs to be (k) pag. 20. damnable That to depart from the Church of Rome there might be iust and necessary (l) pag. 75. cause That they that haue the vnderstanding and meanes to discouer their error and neglect to vse them (m) pag. 79. we dare not flatter them say you with so easy a censure of hope of saluation If then it be as you say a property of Schisme to cut off from the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates how wil you cleere your selfe from Schisme who dare not flatter vs with so easy a censure and who affirme that a reconciliation with vs is damnable But the truth is there is no constancy in your Assertions by reason of difficulties which presse you on all sides For you are loath to affirme cleerly that we may be saued least such a grant might be occasion as in all reason it ought to be of the conuersion of Protestants to the Roman Church And on the other side if you affirme that our Church erred in points fundamentall or necessary to saluation you know not how nor where nor amōg what Company of men to find a perpetuall visible Church of Christ before Luther And the fore your best shift is to say and vnsay as your occasions command I do not examine your Assertion that it is the property of Schisme to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates wherin you are mightily mistaken as appeares by your owne example of the Donatists who were most formall and proper Heretiques and not Schismatiques as Schisme is a vice distinct from Heresy Besides although the Donatists Luciferians whom you also alledg had byn meere Schismatiques yet it were against all good Logick from a particular to infer a generall Rule to determine what is the property of Schisme 28. A third deuise I find in D. Potier to cleere his Brethren from Schisme There is sayth he great difference betweene (n) Pag. 75. a Schisme from them and a Reformation of our selues 29. This I confesse is a quaint subtility by which all Schisme and Sinne may be as well excused For what diuell incarnate could meerly pretend a separation and not rather some other motiue of vertue truth profit or pleasure But now since their pretended Reformation consisted as they gaue out in forsaking the corruptions of the Church the Reformation of thēselues and their diuision from vs falls out to be one and the selfe same thing Nay we see that although they infinitly disagree in the particulars of their reformation yet they symbolize and consent in the generall point of forsaking our pretended corruptions An euident signe that the thinge vpon which their thoughts first pitched was not any particuler Modell or Idaea of Religion but a setled resolution to forsake the Church of Rome Wherefore this Metaphysicall speculation that they intended only to reforme themselues cannot possibly excuse them from Schisme vnlesse first they be able to proue that they were obliged to depart from vs. Yet for as much as concernes the fact it selfe it is cleere that Luthers reuolt did not proceed from any zeale of Reformation The motiues which put him vpon so wretched and vnfortunate a worke were Couetousnes Ambition Lust Pride Enuy and grudging that the promulgation of Indulgences was not committed to himselfe or such as he desired He himselfe taketh God to witnesse that he fell into these troubles casually and (o) Casu nō voluntate in has turbas incidi Deum ipsum testor against his will not vpon any intention of Reformation not so much as dreaming or suspecting any change which might (p) Act. Ex mon. p. 404. happen And he began to preach against Indulgences when he knew not what (q) Steidan lib. 16. fol. 232. the matter meant For sayth he I scarcely vnderstood (r) Sleid. lib. 13. fol. 177. then what the name of Indulgences meāt In so much as afterwards Luther did much mislike of his owne vndertaken course oftentymes sayth he wishing (s) Luth. in colloq mensal that I had neuer begunne that busines And Fox sayth It is apparent that (t) Act. mon. pag. 404. Luther promised Cardinall Caietan to keepe silence prouided also his aduersaries would do the like M. Cowper reporteth further that Luther by his letter submitted (u) Cowp in his Cronicle himselfe to the Pope so that he might not be compelled to recant With much more which may be seene in (w) Tract 2. cap. 2. Sect. 11. subd 2. Brereley But this is sufficient to shew that Luther was far inough from intending any Reformation And if he iudged a Reformation to be necessary what a huge wickednes was it in him to promise silence if his aduersaries would do the like Or to submit himselfe to the Pope so that he might not be compelled to recant Or if the Reformation were not indeed intended by him nor iudged to be necessary how can he be excused
light but rather his vnderstanding is by a necessity made captiue and forced not to disbelieued what is presented by so cleere a light And therefore your imaginary fayth is not the true fayth defined by the Apostle but an inuention of your owne 31. That the fayth of Protestants wanteth the third Condition which was Prudence Their faith wants Prudence is deduced from all that hitherto hath beene sayd What wisdome was it to forsake a Church cōfessedly very ancient and besids which there could be demonstrated no other visible Church of Christ vpon earth A Church acknowledged to want nothing necessary to Saluatiō endued with Succession of Bishops with Visibility and Vniuersality of Tyme and Place A Church which if it be not the true Church her enemies cannot pretend to haue any Church Ordination Scriptures Succession c. and are forced for their owne sake to maintaine her perpetuall Existence and Being To leaue I say such a Church frame a Community without eyther Vnity or meanes to procure it a Church which at Luthers first reuolt had no larger extent then where his body was A Church without Vniuersality of place or Tyme A Church which can pretend no Visibility or Being except only in that former Church which it opposeth A Church void of Succession of Persons or Doctrine What wisdome was it to follow such men as Luther in an opposition against the visible Church of Christ begun vpon meere passion What wisdome is it to receiue from Vs a Church Ordination Scriptures Personall Succession and not Succession of Doctrine Is not this to verify the name of Heresy which signifieth Election or Choyce Wherby they cannot auoid that note of Imprudency or as S. Augustine cals it Foolishnes set downe by him against the Manichees and by me recited before I would not sayth he belieue (r) Cont. ep Fund ç. 5. the Gospell vnles the Authority of the Church did moue me Those therfore whom I obeyed saying Belieue the Gospell why should I not obey the same men saying to me Do not belieue Manichaeus Luther Caluin c. Chuse what thou pleasest If thou say Belieue the Catholiques they warne me not to belieue thee Wherfore if I belieue them I cannot belieue thee If thou say Do not belieue the Catholiques thou shalt not do well in forcing me to the fayth of Manichaeus because by the Preaching of Catholiques I belieued the Gospell it selfe If thou say you did well to belieue them Catholiques commending the Gospell but you did not well to belieue them discommending Manichaeus dost thou thinke me so very FOOLISH that without any reason at all I should belieue what thou wilt and not belieue what thou wilt not Nay this holy Father is not content to call it Foolishnes but meere Madnes in these words Why should I not most diligently enquire (s) Lib. de vtil Cred. ç. 14. what Christ commaunded of those before all others by whose Authority I was moued to belieue that Christ commaunded any good thing Canst thou better declare to me what he said whom I would not haue thought to haue been or to be if the Beliefe therof had been recommended by thee to me This therfore I belieued by fame strengthned with Celebrity Consent Antiquity But euery one may see that you so few so turbulent so new can produce nothing which deserues Authority What MADNES is this Belieue them Catholiques that we ought to belieue Christ but learne of vs what Christ said Why I beseech thee Surely if they Catholiques were not at all and could not teach me any thing I would more easily perswade my selfe that I were not to belieue Christ then I should learne any thing concerning him from any other then those by whom I belieued him Lastly I aske what wisdome it could be to leaue all visible Churches and consequently the true Catholique Church of Christ which you confesse cannot erre in points necessary to saluation and the Roman Church which you grant doth not erre in fundamentalls and follow priuate men who may erre euen in points necessary to saluation Especially if we add that when Luther rose there was no visible true Catholique Church besides that of Rome and them who agreed with her in which sense she was is the only true Church of Christ and not capable of any Error in fayth Nay euen Luther who first opposed the Roman Church yet comming to dispute against other Heretiques he is forced to giue the Lye both to his owne words and deeds in saying We freely confesse (t) In epist cont Anab. ad duos Paerochos to 2 Germ. Witt. fol. 229. 230. that in the Papacy there are many good things worthy the name of Christian which haue come from them to vs. Namely we confesse that in the Papacy there is true Scripture true Baptisme the true Sacrament of the Aultar the true keyes for remission of sinnes the true Office of Preaching true Catechisme as our Lords Prayer Ten Commandements Articles of fayth c. And afterward I auouch that vnder the Papacy there is true Christianity yea the Kernel and Marrow of Christianity and many pious and great Saints And againe he affirmeth that the Church of Rome hath the true Spirit Gospells Fayth Baptisme Sacraments the Keyes the Office of Preaching Prayer Holy Scripture and whatsoeuer Christianity ought to haue And a litle before I heare and see that they bring in Anabaptisme onely to this end that they may spight the Pope as men that will receiue nothing from Antichrist no otherwise then the Sacramentaries doe who therefore belieue only Bread and Wine to be in the Sacrament meerely in hatred against the Bishop of Rome and they thinke that by this meanes they shall ouercome the Papacy Verily these men rely vpon a weake ground for by this meanes they must deny the whole Scripture and the Office of Preaching For we haue all these things from the Pope otherwise we must goe make a new Scripture O Truth more forcible as S. Augustine sayes to wring out (x) Contra Donat. post collat cap. 24. Confession then is any racke or torment And so we may truly say with Moyses Inimici nostri sunt Iudices Our very Enemies giue (y) Deut. c. 32. 31. sentence for vs. 32. Lastly since your fayth wanteth Certainty and Prudence it is easy to inferre that it wants the fourth Condition Supernaturality Their faith wants Supernaturality For being but an Humane persuasion or Opinion it is not in nature or Essence Supernaturall And being imprudent and rash it cannot proceed from diuine Motion and Grace and therefore it is neyther supernaturall in it selfe or in the Cause from which it procedeth 33. Since therefore we haue proued that whosoeuer erres agaynst any one point of faith looseth all diuine fayth euen concerning those other Articles wherein he doth not erre and that although he could still retayne true fayth for some points yet any one errour in whatsoeuer other matter
coÌ„futation can there be then by your own words the Belieuer sees For if he see how doth he belieue Or if he belieues how doth he see Especially since you say he belieues and sees vpon the same formall obiect or motiue Yet that Scripture is knowne by it selfe you proue out of Bellarmine who saych That the Scriptures (i) De verb. Deilib 1. çap. 2. which are contayned in the Propheticall and Apostolicall Writings be most certayne and diuine Scripture it selfe witnesseth But these words will proue to be against your selfe For Bellarmine in that place disputing agaynst the Swenckfeldian Heretiques who denyed all Scriptures sayth That he doth not alledge (k) Ibid. Testimonies of Scripture as if he thought that his Aduersaries made any great account of them but lest the Scriptures the Authority whereof his Aduersaries did sometymes abuse agaynst vs who reuerence them may be thought to fauour their doctrine Is this to affirme that Scripture is certainely and euidently knowne by Scripture Or rather contrarily to say that it must first be belieued before it be powerfull to persuade And therefore immediatly after the wordes by you cited which are The Scripture selfe witnesseth he adds these which you as you are wont leaue out whose predictions of things to come if they were true as the euent afterward did manifest why should not the Testimonies of things present be true Where you see that he proues not the Scripture by that beame of light which euidenly shines in Scripture but by predictions which we grant to be a good inducement or as Diuines speake an Argument of credibility and yet no infallible ground of fayth to belieue that Scriptures are diuine and much lesse a beame of light cleerly conuincing vs that Scripture is Scripture For one may be inspired to prophesy or speake truth in some point and for others be left to humane discourse or error as it hapned in Balam and the friends of Iob. And therfore Bellarmine in that very place brings other extrinsecall Argumentes as Miracles exemplar and visible strange punishments of such as presumed to abuse holy Scripture c. Which euidently shewes that he intended to bring Arguments of Credibility and not infallible grounds of fayth wherby we belieue that Scripture is Scripture which we must take from the infallible Testimony of the Church by meanes of Tradition wherof Bellarmine sayth This so necessary a point to wit that (m) Deverb Dei nonseripro lib. 4. c. 4. there is some diuine Scripture cannot be had from Scripture it selfe Wherby it is manifest that you plainely corrupt Bellarmines meaning when you go about to proue out of him that Scripture can be proued by Scripture alone the contrary wherof he affirmes and proues at large against the Heretiques of these times The place which you cite of Origen only proues that those who already belieue the Canonicall Bookes of Scripture may proue out of them that Scripture is diuinely inspired as S. Peter (n) Epist. 2. vers 21. sayth Neither doth the Authority of Saluianus proue any thing els 10. Your saying that we yield to the Church an absolute (o) Pag. 144.145 vnlimited Authority to propound what she pleaseth and an vnlimited power to supply the defects of Scripture I let passe as meere slaunders As also that the Authority of the Church is absolute not (p) Pag. 144. depending on Scripture but on which the Scripture it selfe depends And you cannot be ignorant of that which hath been so often inculcated by Catholique Writers that the Scriptures in themselues do not depend on the Church but only in respect of vs who learno from her what Bookes be Canonical Scripture which is to say not the Scriptures but our weake vnderstanding and knowledge of Scripture relies on the Church which our Sauiour Christ commandes vs to heare And your selfe grant that the Church (q) Pag. 142.143 is the ordinary outward meanes to present and propound diuine verities to our Fayth You will not deny that your knowledge of the Trinity Incarnation c. depends on Scripture will you thence in fer that the Blessed Trinity Incarnation c. in themselues depend on Scripture as if God had not been God vnlesse Scripture had beene written Besides to such as belieue Scripture we may proue the Church herselfe by Scripture and she in all her definitions doth consult examine and submit herselfe to Scripture against which she neuer did nor euer can define any thing in this sense also she depends on Scripture But to make good your slaunder you (r) Pag. 144. cite Bellarmine after your wonted fashion If we take away (s) De effect Sacram. lib. 2. cap. 25. § Tertium testimonium the Authority of the present Church of Rome this of Rome is your addition and of the Trent-Councell the decrees of all other Ancient Councels and the whole Christian fayth may be questioned as doubtfull for the strength of all doctrines and of all Councels depends vpon the Authority of the present Church Would not one thinke by these words that the strength of all doctrines depeÌ„ds on the Church wheras Bellarmine only sayth that we could not infallibly know that there were such Generall Councels and that they were law full Councels and that they defined this or that but because the present Church which cannot erre doth so belieue and teach vs. Which words demonstrate that Bellarmine doth not speake of fayth or doctrines in themselues but in respect of vs. And do not you your selfe teach that it is the Church which directs vs to Scripture and that she likewise is the ordinary outward meanes to present and propound diuine Verities without which Propesition no obiect can be conueyed to our (t) Pag. 142.143 fayth And what is this but to acknowledge that in the ordinary way without the guidance direction and Proposition of the Church we haue no fayth at all 11. You â—ikewise cite these words out of (u) De Eccles mil. lib. 3. cap. 10 §. Ad haec necesse est Bellarmine The Scriptures Traditions and all doctrines whatsoeuer depend on the Testimony of the Church he meanes say you that of Rome without which all are wholy vncertayne But Bellarmines words are these Since the Scriptures Traditions and all doctrines whatsoeuer depend vpon the Testimony of the Church all things will be vncertaync vnles we be most assured which is the true Church You see Bellarmine speakes not of the particular Church of Rome as you in your PareÌ„thesis would make him seeme to speake And as for the Vniuersall true Church what principle of Atheis me is it as you very exorbitantly (w) pag. 145 affirme to say that if we did not know which were the true Church we could haue no certainty of Scriptures Traditions or any thing els Do you thinke that it were safe to take the Scriptures vpon the credit of a false Church As wel might you take them vpon the
credit of Turkes or Infidels And therefore not the Assertion of Bellarmine but the contrary to it is a plaine principle of Atheisme Doe not you proue the necessity of a perpetuall visible true Church because other wise men should want that ordinary meanes which God hath appointed for our instruction Direction Saluation Now if we might haue Scriptures and true Fayth from a false Church your more zealous Brethren who deny a perpetuall visible true Church might easily answere all your Arguments and tell you that a true Church is not necessery for fayth and Saluation And besides is it not in effect all one to say for as much as concernes our instruction Christ hath no visible Church to say that we cānot know which is the true visible Church of Christ All the infallibility which we ascribe to the Church is acknowledged to proceed from the assistance of God how can he be said not to belieue a God who belieues the Church because she is assisted by God Remēber that euen now I told you that according to your owne affirmation the Church is the ordinary meanes wherby Diuine Truth is conueyed to the vnderstāding and yet you thinke your selfe free from Atheisme The Apostles of themselues were but mortal frayle subiect to errour and yet I hope you will not thinke it a Principle of Atheisme to say that all our fayth depends on them 12. You taxe vs for teaching that much of the Matter or Obiect of fayth is not contayned in Scripture any way But I haue already more then once sayd that we belieue nothing but what is contained in Scripture in some sort eyther in it selfe or from some Principle from which it may be certaynely deduced or in those places of Scripture which recōmend the Church vnwritten Traditions to vs as if one should in his last Testament expresse diuers particulars and should in the same Testament referre the rest to some third person whome be had fully instructed concerning his further will meaning whatsoeuer things were performed according to the direction of that third person might truly be sayd to be contayned in the Testament although they might also be saye not to be cōtained therin because they are not mētioned in particular And according to this explication Canus and Stapleton whome you cite and other Catholikes are to be vnderstood when they teach that we belieue diuers things not comprehended in Scripture 13. But you aske with what ingenuity (y) Pag. 146. or conscience doe they pretend Scripture in ech Controuersy agaynst vs since by their owne Confession many of their Assertions are meere vnwritten Traditions leaning only on the Authority of their Church I answere that some points of faith are expresly contained in Scripture yet not so enforcingly as they might not be colourably eluded if we tooke away the declaration of the Church Some others are not contained in Scripture any other way then in the generall principles of the Churches authority and diuine Traditions as for example that such Bookes in particular are Canonicall writings Some others ar◠comprehended in Scripture only probably Others are contained so cleerly that they may seeme sufficiently euident to a man not peruerse and according to these diuersities we do more or lesse alledge Scripture If one were disposed to vse such Arguments as you bring I might aske on the other side to what purpose do you alledge Councels Fathers Reasons if out of Scripture alone you can conuince all errors against your doctrine May not diuerse arguments be rightly alledged to proue the selfe same Conclusion 14. Once againe you returne to the sufficiency of only Scripture that is you returne to speake nothing which concernes the Question in hand which you proue out of Bellarmine though heerin say you as not seldome (z) 〈◊〉 14. contradicting both himseife and his fellowes How consonant the writings of Bellarmine are both to themselues and to the common doctrine of other Catholique Authors this may serue for a sufficient proofe that all his Aduersaries could neuer shew yet in all his works any one contradiction but such as themselues had first forged and then obiected And although in this generall cause I do not willingly meddle with personall things yet that you may learne heerafter to speake with more circumspection but chiefly for the merit of a person so eminent in learning and dignity and yet more eminent in sanctity I will not forbeare to assure the world and you that when some yeares since a perion of high authority in the world had made himselfe beneue that he had discouered many contradictions in Bellarmine D. Dunne in a conference that he had with a person of Honour Worth from whom I receiued it though I hold it not fit heer to giue his name declared that there was no ground for this but that all his works were so consonant and coherent to one another as if he had been able to write them all in one houres space And if you D. Potter be of another opinion you shall do well to produce some instāce to the contrary which may shew a reall contradiction betweene some passage and some other of his works wherin it is odds that you will be answered and he be defended Let vs see also for the present what you bring to make good your asseueration The Cardinall say you grants (a) Bellarm. deverb Dei interpret cap. 10. ad arg 1◠that a Proposition is not de fide vnles it be concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God (b) pag. 145. reuealed in the Scripture is true but this or that God hath reuealed in Scripture ergo it is true If matters of fayth must be reuealed in Scripture as this reason supposes then the Proposall of the Church cannot make any vnwritten Verity to become matter of fayth yet to salue the soueraigne power of his Church he makes all the strength and truth in this Syllogisme to depend on the Testimony of the Church and by consequence the truth of the Conclusion which euer resembles the weaker premisse So as if this be true there is no truth in the Scriptures or in our Religion without the attestation of the Church But now how many corruptions sleights and vntruths are couched in these lines Let vs examine them a little Bellarmine hauing taught and proued at large that the interpretation of holy Scripture belongs not to priuate persons but to the Church of God which in respect of vs is to iudge of Scripture and of all other Controuersies in Religion and hauing made this Obiection against himselfe If our fayth depend (c) Vbi supra vpon the Iudgment of the Church then it depends vpon the word of men and therfore doth rely vpon a most weake foundation he giues this answere The word of the Church that is of the Councell or Pope when he teacheth as out of his Chaire is not meerly the word of man that is a word subiect to error
MERCY TRVTH OR CHARITY MAINTAYNED by Catholiques By way of Reply vpon an Answere lately framed by D. POTTER to a Treatise which had formerly proued That CHARITY was MISTAKEN by Protestants With the want whereof Catholiques are vniustly charged for affirming That Protestancy vnrepented destroyes SALVATION Deuided into tvvo Parts Mercy and Truth haue met togeather Psalm 84. v. 11. Better are the wounds of him that loueth then the fraudulent kisses of him that hateth Prou. cap. 27. v. 6. We loue you Brethren and desire the same things for you which we doe for our selues S. Aug. Ep. 166. Permissu Superiorum M.DC.XXXIIII TO THE MOST HIGH Mighty Iust and Clement Prince CHARLES King of Great-Brittaine France and Ireland c. THese Titles most gracious Soueraigne partly flovving from your Royall Authority and partly appropriated to your Sacred Person haue by their happy coniunction emboldened me to lay at your Princely Feet vvith most humble respects and profound submission this REPLY of mine to a Booke lately vvritten in obedience as the Author therof affirmes to your Maiesties particular Commaund For though your Regal Authority may seeme to be an Obiect of only Dread and Avve yet doth it not so much auert as inuite men to a confident approach vvhen it appeares so svvetly tempered and adorned vvith such rare Personall Qualities as your Maiesties are Iustice to all Clemency to euery one of your meanest Subiects VVisdome to discerne vvith quicknes depth and to determine vvith great maturity of Iudgment betvvene right and vvrong A Princely disdaine and iust indignation against the least dissimulation vvhich may be repugnant to the secret testimony of Conscience An heroicall Affection and euen as it vvere a naturall kind of sympathy vvith all Sincerity and Truth So that vvhen your Maiesty thought fit to impose a Commandement of vvriting vpon one I could not but conceiue it to be also your gracious Pleasure and Will that in Vertue of the same Royal Commaund others vvho are of contrary Iudgment vvere suffered at least if not obliged to ansvvere for themselues but yet vvith all due respect and Christian moderation Which I haue as carefully endeauoured to obserue as if I had vvritten by the expresse Commaund spoken in the Hearing and acted the part of Truth in the presence of so Great so Modest and so Iudicious a Monarch as your Maiesty is I vvas therfore supported by contemplation of these your rare Endovvments of Mind vvhich as they are the Happines of all your Subiects so vvere they no lesse a Hope to me that your Maiesty vvould not disdaine to cast an eie of Grace vpon this REPLY not according to the face of present times but vvith regard to the Plea's of Truth appearing in times more ancient and in places more diffused by the allegation of one vvho doth so cordially professe himselfe your Maiesties most humble subiect as that from the depth of a sincere hart and vvith all the povvers of his soule he vvishes that God be no longer mercifull and good to him and all your other Catholiques Subiects then they and he shall both in desire and deed approue themselues vpon all occasions sincerely Loyall to the most Excellent Person and thrice hopefull Issue of your Sacred Maiesty This our Catholique Religion teaches vs to professe and performe and heervvith I lay this poore Worke and prostrate the Author thereof at the Throne of your Royall Feet Your Maiesties most humble and most loyall Subiect I. H. Aduertisement of the Printer THis REPLY Good Reader vvas indeed long since finished by the Author but by reason of some impediment it could not be commodiously transported so soone as he vvished and desired it should TO THE READER GIVE me leaue good Reader to informe thee by way of Preface of three points The first concernes D. Potters Answere to Charity Mistaken The second relates to this Reply of mine And the third containes some Premonitions or Prescriptions in case D. Potter or any in his behalfe thinke fit to reioyne 2. For the first point concerning D. Potters Answere I say in generall A generall consideration of D. Potters Answere reseruing particulars to their prroper places that in his whole Booke he hath not so much as once truly and really fallen vpon the point in question which was Whether both Catholiques and Protestants can be saued in their seuerall professions And therefore Charity Mistaken iudiciously pressing those particulars wherein the difficultie doth precisely consist proues in generall that there is but one true Church that all Christiās are obliged to hearken to her that she must be euer visible and infallible that to separate ones selfe from her Communion is Schisme and to dissent from her doctrine is Heresie though it be in points neuer so few or neuer so small in their own nature and therefore that the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is wholy vaine as it is applied by Protestants These I say and some other generall grounds Charity Mistaken handles and out of them doth cleerely euince that any least difference in faith cannot stand with saluation on both sides and therefore since it is apparent that Catholiques and Protestants disagree in very many points of Faith they both cannot hope to be saued without repentance and consequently as we hold that Protestancy vnrepented destroies Saluation so must they also belieue that we cānot be saued if they iudge their own Religion to be true and ours to be false And whosoeuer disguizeth this truth is an enemy to soules which he deceiues with vngrounded false hopes of saluation indifferent Faiths and Religions And this Charity Mistaken performed exactly according to that which appeares to haue been his designe which was not to descend to particuler disputes as D. Potter affectedly does namely Whether or no the Romā Church be the only true Church of Christ and much lesse whether Generall Councels be infallible whether the Pope may erre in his Decrees common to the whole Church whether he be aboue a Generall Councell whether all points of fayth be contained in Scripture whether Fayth be resolued into the authority of the Church as into his last formall Obiect and Motiue and least of all did he discourse of Images Communion vnder both kinds publique Seruice in an vnknowne Tongue Seauen Sacraments Sacrifice of the Masse Indulgences and Index Expurgatorius all which and diuers other articles D. Potter as I said drawes by violence into his Booke he might as well haue brought in Pope loane or Antichrist or the Iewes who are permitted to liue in Rome which are common Themes for men that want better matter as D. Potter was forced to fetch in the aforsayd Controuersies that so he might dazle the eyes distract the mynd of the Reader and hinder him from perceiuing that in his whole Answere he vttered nothing to the purpose point in question which if he had followed closely I dare well say he might haue dispatched his whole
matters of faith great or small few or many the one cannot be saued without repentance vnles Ignorance accidentally may in some particuler person plead excuse For in that case of coÌ„trary beliefe one must of necessity be held to oppose Gods word or Reuelation sufficiently represented to his vnderstaÌ„ding by an infallible Propounder which oppositioÌ„ to the Testimony of God is vndoutedly a damnable sin whether otherwise the thing so testifyed be in it selfe great or small And thus we haue already made good what was promised in the argument of this Chapter that amongst men of different Religions one is only capable of being saued 9. Neuertheles to the end that men may know in particular what is the sayd infallible meanes vpon which we are to rely in all things concerning Fayth and accordingly may be able to iudge in what safety or danger more or lesse they liue and because D. Potter descendeth to diuers particulers about Scriptures and the Church c. we will go forward proue that although Scripture be in it selfe most sacred infallible diuine yet it alone cannot be to vs a Rule or Iudge fit and able to end all doubts and debates emergent in matters of Religion but that there must be some externall visible publique liuing Iudge to whome all sorts of persons both lâ—aâ—ned vnlearned may without danger of â—â—â—our haue recourse and in whose Iudgment they may rest for the interpreting and propounding of Gods Word or Reuclation And this liuing Iudge we will most euidently proue to be no other but that Holy Catholique Apostolique and Visible Church which our Sauiour purchased with the effusion of his most precious bloud 10. If once therefore it be granted that the Church is that means which God hath left for deciding all CoÌ„trouersies in faith it manifestly will follow that she must be infallible in all her determinations whether the matters of theÌ„selues be great or small because as we sayd aboue it must be agreed on all sides that if that meanes which God hath left to determine Controuersies were not infallible in all things proposed by it as truths reuealed by Almighty God it could not settle in our minds a firme and infallible beliefe of any one 11. From this Vniuersall Infallibility of God's Church it followeth that whosoeuer wittingly denieth any one point proposed by her as reuealed by God is iniurious to his diuine Maiesty as if he could either deceiue or be deceiued in what he testifieth The auerring whereof were not only a fundamentall error but would ouerthrow the very foundation of all fundamentall points and therefore without repentance could not possibly stand with saluation 12 Out of these grounds we will shew that although the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall be good and vsefull as it is deliuered and applied by Catholique Deuines to teach what principall Articles of faith Christians are obliged explicitely to belieue yet that it is impertinent to the present purpose of excusing any man from grieuous sinne who knowingly disbelieues that is belieues the contrary of that which Gods Church proposeth as diuine Truth For it is one thing not to know explicitly some thing testifyed by God another positiuely to oppose what we know he hath testified The former may often be excused from sinne but neuer the latter which only is the case in Question 13. In the same manner shall be demonstrated that to alleadge the Creed as contayning all Articles of faith necessary to be explicitely belieued is not pertinent to free from sinne the voluntary deniall of any other point knowen to be defined by Gods Church And this were sufficient to ouerthrow all that D. Potter alleadgeth concerning the Creed though yet by way of Supererogation we will proue that there are diuers importaÌ„t matters of Faith which are not mentioned at all in the Creed 14. From the aforesaid maine principle that God hath alwayes had and alwaies will haue on earth a Church Visible within whose Communion Saluation must be hoped and infallible whose definitions we ought to belieue we will proue that Luther Caluin and all other who continue the diuision in Communion or Faith from that Visible Church which at and before Luthers appearance was spread ouer the world cannot be excused from Schisme and Heresy although they opposed her faith but in onâ— only point wheras it is manifest they dissent from her in many and weighty matters concerning as well beliefe as practise 15. To these reasons drawne from the vertue of Faith we will add one other taken from Charitas propria the Vertue of Charity as it obligeth vs not to expose our soule to hazard of perdition when we can put our selues in a way much more secure as we will proue that of the Roman Catholiques to be 16. We are then to proue these points First that the infallible meanes to determine controuersies in matters of faith is the visible Church of Christ Secondly that the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall maketh nothing to our present Question Thirdly that to say the Creed containes all fundamentall points of faith is neither pertinent nor true Fourthly that both Luther all they who after him persist in diuision from the Communion and Faith of the Roman Church cannot be excused from Schisme Fifthly nor from Heresy Sixtly and lastly that in regard of the precept of Charity towards ones selfe Protestants be in state of sinne as long as they remaine diuided from the Roman Church And these six points shall be seuerall Arguments for so many ensuing Chapters 17. Only I will heere obserue that it seemeth very strange that Protestants should charge vs so deeply with Want of Charity for only teaching that both they and we cannot be saued seeing themselues must affirme the like of whosoeuer opposeth any least point deliuered in Scripture which they hold to be the sole Rule of Faith Out of which ground they must be enforced to let all our former Inferences passe for good For is it not a grieuous sinne to deny any one truth contained in holy Writ Is there in such deniall any distinction betwixt points fundamentall and not fundamentall sufficient to excuse from heresy Is it not impertinent to alleadge the Creed contayning all fundamentall points of faith as if belieuing it alone we were at liberty to deny all other points of Scripture In a word According to Protestants Oppose not Scripture there is no Errour against faith Oppose it in any least point the error if Scripture be sufficiently proposed which proposition is also required before a man can be obliged to belieue euen fundameÌ„tall points must be damnable What is this but to say with vs Of persons contrary in whatsoeuer point of beliefe one party only can be saued And D. Potter must not take it ill if Catholiques belieue they may be saued in that Religion for which they suffer And if by occasion of this doctrine men will still be charging vs with Want
and of infallible Verity By saying so Of this very affirmation there will remaine the same Question still how it can proue it selfe to be infallibly true Neyther can there euer be an end of the like multiplyed demands till we rest in the externall Authority of some person or persons bearing witnes to the world that such or such a booke is Scripture and yet vpon this point according to ProtestaÌ„ts all other Controuersies in fayth depend 7. That Scripture cannot assure vs that it selfe is Canonicall Scripture is acknowledged by some Protestants in expresse words and by all of them in deeds M. Hooker whome D. Potter ranketh (a) Pag. 131. among men of great learning and iudgement sayth Of thinges (b) In his first booke of Eccles Policy Sect. 14. pag. 6â— necessary the very chiefest is to know what bookes we are to esteeme holy which point is confessed impossible for the Scripture it selfe to teach And this he proueth by the same argument which we lately vsed saying thas It is not (c) Ibid. lib. 2. Sect. 4. p. 102. the word of God which doth or possibly can assure vs that we doe well to thinke it his word For if any one Booke of Scripture did giue testimony of all yet still that Scripture which giueth testimony to the rest would require another Scripture to giue credit vnto it Neyther could we come to any pause whereon to rest vnles besids Scripture there were something which might assure vs c. And this he acknowledgeth to be the (d) l. 3. Sect. 8. pag. 1. 146. alibi Church By the way If Of things necessary the very chiefest cannot possibly be taught by Scripture as this man of so great learning and iudgment affirmeth and demonstratiuely proueth how can the Protestant Clergy of England subscribe to their sixth Article Wherein it is sayd of the Scripture Whatsoeuer is not read therein nor may be proued thereby is not to be required of any man that it should be belieued as an Article of the fayth or be thought requisite or necessary to saluation and concerning their beliefe and profession of this Article they are particulerly examined when they be ordayned Priests and Bishops With Hooker his defendant Couell doth punctually agree Whitaker likewise confesseth that the question about Canonicall Scriptures is defined to vs not by testimony of the priuate spirit which sayth he being priuate and secret is (e) Aduersus Stapl. l. 2. cap. 6. pag. 270 pag. 357. vnfit to teach and refell others but as he acknowledgeth by the (f) Aduersus Stapl. l. 2. c. 4. pag. 300. Ecclesiasticall Tradition An argument sayth he whereby may be argued and conuinced what bookes be Canonicall and what be not Luther sayth This (g) lib. de capt Babyl tom 2. Wittomb fol. 8â— indeed the Church hath that she can discerne the word of God from the word of men as Augustine confesseth that he belieued the Ghospell being moued by the authority of the Church which did preach this to be the Gospell Fulke teacheth that the Church (h) In his answere to a countefaite Catholique pag. 5. hath iudgment to discerne true writings from counterfaite and the word of God from the writing of men and that this iudgment she hath not of herselfe but of the Holy Ghost And to the end that you may not be ignorant from what Church you must receiue Scriptures heare your first Patriarch Luther speaking against theÌ„ who as he saith brought in Anabaptisme that so they might despight the Pope Verily saith he these (i) Epist coÌ„t Anabap. ad dnos Parochos tom 2 Germ. Wittemb men build vpon a weake foundation For by this meanes they ought to deny the whole Scripture and the Office of Preaching For all these we haue from the Pope otherwise we must goe make a new Scripture 8. But now in deedes they all make good that without the Churches authority no certainty can be had what Scripture is Canonicall while they cannot agree in assigning the Canon of holy Scripture Of the Epistle of S. Iames Luther hath these words The (k) Praefat. in epist. lac inedit Ienensi Epistle of â—ames is contentions swelling dry strawy and vnworthy of an Apostolicall Spirit Which censure of Luther Illyricus acknowledgeth and maintaineth Kemnitius teacheth that the second Epistle (l) In Enchirid pag. 63. of Peter the second and third of Iohn the Epistle to the Hebrewes the Epistle of Iames the Epistle of Iude and the Apocalyps of Iohn are Apocryphall as not hauing sufficient Testimony (m) In exa min. Conc. Trid. part 1. pag. 55. of their authority and therefore that nothing in controuersy can be proued out of these (n) Ibid. Bookes The same is taught by diuers other Lutherans and if some other amongst them be of a contrary opinion since Luthers time I wonder what new infallible ground they can alleadge why they leaue their Maister and so many of his prime Schollers I know no better ground then because they may with as much freedome abandon him as he was bould to alter that Canon of Scripture which he found receiued in Gods Church 9. What Bookes of Scripture the Protestants of England hold for Canonicall is not easy to affirme In their sixt Article they say In the name of the Holy Scripture we do vnderstand those Canonicall Bookes of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was neuer any doubâ—â— in the Church What meane they by these words That by the Churches consent they are assured what Scriptures be Canonicall This were to make the Church Iudge and not Scriptures alone Do they only vnderstand the agreement of the Church to be a probable inducement Probability is no sufficient ground for an infallible assent of fayth By this rule of whose authority was NEVER any doubt in the Church the whole booke of Esther must quit the Canon because some in the Church haue excluded it from the Canon as (o) Apud Eusâ—b l. 4. hist. cap. 26. Melito Asianus (p) in Synop. Athanaâ—us and (q) In câ—rm de genuâ—â—â—s Scripturis Gregory Nazianzen And Luther if Prote stants will be content that he be in the Church saith The Iewes (r) lib de seruo arbitrâ—o contra Eras tom 2. Witt. fol. 471. place the booke of Esther in the Canon which yet if I might be Iudge doth rather deserue to be put out of the Canon And of Ecclesiastes he saith This (s) In latinis Sermonibus conuiuialibus Francof in 8. impr Anno 1571. booke is not full there are in it many abrupt things he wants boots and spurs that is he hath no perfect sentence he rides vpon a long reed like me when I was in the Monastery And much more is to be read in him who (t) In Germanicis colloq Lutheri ab Aurtfabro editis Francofurti tit de libris veteris noui Test fol. 379. sayth further that the said booke was
or conuiction of things not euident and therefore no wonder if Scripture doe not manifest it selfe by it selfe alone but must require some other meanes for applying it to our vnderstanding Neuer theles their owne similitudes and instances make against themselues For suppose a man had neuer read or heard of Sunne Moone Fire Candle c. and should be brought to behold a light yet in such sort as that the Agent or Cause Efficient from which it proceeded were kept hidden from him could such an one by only beholding the light certainly know whether it were produduced by the Sunne or Moone c Or if one heare a voyce and had neuer known the speaker could he know from whome in particuler that voyce proceeded They who looke vpon Scripture may well see that some one wrote it but that it was written by diuine inspiration how shall they know Nay they cannot so much as know who wrote it vnles they first know the writer and what hand he writes as likewise I cānot know whose voice it is which I heare vnles I first both know the person who speakes with what voice he vseth to speake and yet euen all this supposed I may perhaps be deceyued For there may be voyces so like and Hand so counterfaited that men may be deceyued by them as birds were by the grapes of that skillfull Painter Now since Protestants affirme knowledge concerning God as our supernaturall end must be taken from Scripture they cannot in Scripture alone discerne that it is his voyce or writing because they cannot know from whome a writing or voyce proceeds vnle first they know the person who speaketh or writeth Nay I say more By Scripture alone they cannot so much as know that any person doth in it or by it speake any thing at all because one may write without intent to signify or affirme any thing but only to set downe or as it were paint such characters syllables and words as men are wont to set copies not caring what the signification of the words imports or as one transcribes a writinge which himselfe vnderstands not or when one writes what another dictates and in other such cases wherein it is cleere that the writer speakes or signifies nothing in such his writing therefore by it we cannot heare or vnderstand his voyce With what certainty then can any man affirme that by Scripture it self they can see that the writers did intēd to signify any thing at all that they were Apostles or other Canonical Authours that they wrote their owne sense and not what was dictated by some other man and finally especially that they wrote by the infallible direction of the Holy Ghost 12. But let vs be liberall and for the present suppose not grant that Scripture is like to corporall light by it selfe alone able to determine moue our vnderstanding to assent yet the similitude proues against thēselues For light is not visible except to such as haue eyes which are not made by the light but must be presupposed as produced by some other cause And therefore to hold the similitude Scripture can be cleere only to those who are endewed with the eye of fayth or as D. Potter aboue cited sayth to all that haue (a) Pag. 141. eyes to discerne the shining beames thereof that is to the belieuer as immediatly after he speaketh Fayth then must not originally proceed from Scripture but is to be presupposed before we can see the light thereof and consequently there must be some other meanes precedent to Scripture to beget Fayth which can be no other then the Church 13. Others affirme that they know Canonicall Scriptures to be such by the Title of the Bookes But how shall we know such Inscriptions or Titles to be infallibly true From this their Answere our argument is strengthned because diuers Apocryphall writings haue appeared vnder the Titles and Names of sacred Authours as the Ghospell of Thomas mentioned by S (b) Cont. Adimantum c. 17. Augustine the Ghospell of Peter which the Nazaraei did vse as (c) l. 2. haeretic fab Theodoret witnesseth with which Scraphion a Catholique Bishop was for sometyme deceiued as may be read in (d) lib. 6. cap. 10. Eusebius who also speaketh of the Apocalyps of (e) lib. 6. cap. 11. Peter The like may be sayd of the Ghospells of Barnabas Bartholomew and other such writings specifyed by Pope (f) Dist. Can. Sancta Romana Gelasius Protestants reiect likewise some part of Esther and Daniel which beare the same Titles with the rest of those Bookes as also both wee and they hould for Apochryphall the third and fourth Bookes which go vnder the name of Esdras and yet both of vs receiue his first and second booke Wherefore Titles are not sufficient assurances what bookes be Canonicall which (h) In his defence art 4. Pag. 31. D. Couell acknowledgeth in these words It is not the word of God which doth or possibly can assure vs that we doe well to thinke it is the word of God the first outward motion leading men so to esteeme of the Scripture is the Authority of Gods Church which teacheth vs to receiue Marks Ghospell who was not an Apostle and to refuse the Ghospell of Thomas who was an Apostle and to retaine Lukes Ghospell who saw not Christ and to reiect the Ghospell of Nicodemus who saw him 14. Another Answere or rather Obiection they are wont to bring That the Scripture being a principle needs no proofe among Christians So D. (i) Pag 234 Potter But this neither a plaine begging of the question or manifestly vntrue and is directly against their owne octrine and practise If they meane that Scripture is one of those principles which being the first and the most knowne in all Sciences cannot be demonstrated by other Principles they suppose that which is in question whether there be not some principle for example the Church wherby we may come to the knowledge of Scripture If they intend that Scripture is a Principle but not the first and most knowne in Christianity then Scripture may be proued For principles that are not the first nor knowne of themselues may ought to be proued before we can yield assent either to them or to other verities depending on them It is repugnant to their owne doctrine and practise in as much as they are wont to affirme that one part of Scripture may be knowne to be Canonicall and may be interpreted by another And since euery scripture is a principle sufficient vpon which to ground diuine faith they must grant that one Principle may and sometime must be proued by another Yea this their Answere vpon due ponderation falls out to proue what we affirme For since all Principles cannot be proued we must that our labour may not be endles come at length to rest in some principle which may not require any other proofe Such is Tradition which inuolues an euidence of fact and
be some vniuersall Iudge which the ignorant may vnderstand and to whom the greatest Clerks must submit Such is the Church and the Scripture is not such 20. Now the inconueniences which follow by referring all Controuersies to Scripture alone are very cleare For by this principle all is finally in very deed and truth reduced to the internall priuate Spirit because there is really no middle way betwixt a publique externall and a priuate internall voyce whosoeuer refuseth the one must of necessity adhere to the other 21. This Tenet also of Protestants by taking the office of Iudicature from the Church comes to conferre it vpon euery particuler maÌ„ who being driuen from submission to the Church cannot be blamed if he trust himselfe as farre as any other his conscience dictating that wittingly he meanes not to cozen himself as others maliciously may do Which inference is so manifest that it hath extorted from diuers Protestants the open Confession of so vast an absurdity Heare Luther The Gouernours (a) Tom. 2. Wittemberg fol. 375. of Churches and Pastours of Christs sheep haue indeed power to teach but the sheep ought to giue Iudgment whether they propound the voyce of Christ or of Aliens Lubbertus sayth As we haue (b) In lib. de principiâ—s Christian. dogm lib. 6. cap. 13. demonstrated that all publique Iudges may be deceiued in interpreting so we affirme that they may erre in iudging All faythfull men are prinate Iudges and they also haue power to Iudge of doctrines and interpretations Whitaker euen of the vnlearned sayth They (c) De Sacra Scriptura pag. 529. ought to haue recourse vnto the more learned but in the meane tyme we must be carefull not to attribute to them ouer-much but so that still we retaine our owne freedome Bilson also affirmeth that The people (d) In his true difference part 2. must be discerners and Iudges of that which is taught This same pernicious doctrine is deliuered by Brentius Zanchius Cartwright and others exactly cited by (e) Tract 2. cap. 1. Sect. 1. Brereley nothing is more common in euery Protestants mouth then that he admits of Fathers Councells Church c. as far as they agree with Scripture which vpon the matter is himselfe Thus Heresy euer fals vpon extremes It pretends to haue Scripture alone for Iudge of Controuersies and in the meane time sets vp as many Iudges as there are men and women in the Christian world What good Statesmen would they be who should idëate or fancy such a Common wealth as these men haue framed to themselues a Church They verify what S. Augustine obiecteth against certaine Heretiques You sce (f) lib 32. cont Faust that you goe about to ouerthrow all authority of Scripture and that euery mans mind may be to himselfe a Rule what he is to allow or disallow in euery Scripture 22. Moreouer what coÌ„fusion to the Church what danger to the Common wealth this deniall of the authority of the Church may bring I leaue to the consideration of any Iudicious indifferent man I will only set downe some words of D. Potter who speaking of the Proposition of reuealed Truths sufficient to proue him that gaine saith them to be an Heretique sayth thus This Proposition (g) pag. 247 of reuealed truths is not by the infallible determination of Pope or Church Pope and Church being excluded let vs heare what more secure rule he will prescribe but by whatsoeuer meanes a man may be conuinced in conscience of diuine reuelation If a Preacher do cleare any point of fayth to his Hearers if a priuate Christian do make it appeare to his Neighbour that any conclusion or point of faith is deliuered by diuine reuelation of Gods word if a man himselfe without any Teacher by reading the Scriptures or hearing them read be conuinced of the truth of any such coclusion this is a sufficient proposition to proue him that gain saith any such proofe to be an Heretique and obstinate opposer of the faith Behold what goodly safe Propounders of fayth arise in place of Gods vniuersall visible Church which must yield to a single Preacher a Neighbour a man himselfe if he can read or at least haue eares to heare Scripture read Verily I do not see but that euery well gouerned Ciuill Common-wealth ought to concur towards the exterminating of this doctrine whereby the Interpretation of Scripture is taken from the Church and conferred vpon euery man who whatsoeuer is pretended to the contrary may be a passionate seditions creature 23. Moreouer there was no Scripture or written word for about two thousand yeares from Adam to Moyses whom all acknowledge to haue been the first Author of Canonicall Scripture And againe for about two thousand yeares more from Moyses to Christ our Lord holy Scripture was only among the people of Israel and yet there were Gentils endewed in those dayes with diuine Faith as appeareth in Iob and his friends Wherefore during so many ages the Church alone was the decider of Controuersies and Instructor of the faithfull Neither did the Word written by Moses depriue that Church of her former Infallibility or other qualities requisite for a Iudge yea D. Potter acknowledgeth that besides the Law there was a liuing Iudge in the Iewish Church endewed with an absolutly infallible direction in cases of moment as all points belonging to diuine Faith are Now the Church of Christ our Lord was before the Scriptures of the New Testament which were not written instantly nor all at one time but successiuely vpon seuerall occasions and some after the decease of most of the Apostles after they were written they were not presently knowne to all Churches and of some there was doubt in the Church for some Ages after our Sauiour Shall we then say that according as the Church by little and little receiued holy Scripture she was by the like degrees deuested of her possessed Infallibility and power to decide Controuersies in Religion That some Churches had one Iudge of Controuersies and others another That with moneths or yeares as new Canonicall Scripture grew to be published the Church altered her whole Rule of faith or Iudge of Controuersies After the Apostles time and after the writing of Scriptures Heresies would be sure to rise requiring in Gods Church for their discouery and condemnation Infallibility either to write new Canonicall Scripture as was done in the Apostles time by occasion of emergent heresies or infallibility to interpret Scriptures already written or without Scripture by diuine vn written Traditions and affistance of the holy Ghost to determine all Controuersies as Tertullian saith The soule is (h) De test antm cap. 5. before the letter and speach before Bookes and sense before stile Certainly such addition of Scripture with derogation or subtraction from the former power and infallibility of the Church would haue brought to the world diuision in matters of faith and the Church had rather lost then
pernicious temerity in proposing points not fundamētall to be belieued by Christians as matters of faith wherin she can haue no certainty yea which alwayes imply a falshood For although the thing might chance to be true and perhaps also reuealed yet for the matter she for her part doth alwaies expose herselfe to danger of falshood error and in fact doth alwayes erre in the manner in which she doth propound any matter not fundamentall because she proposeth it as a point of faith certainly true which yet is alwayes vncertaine if she in such things may be deceiued 12. Besides if the Church may erre in points not fundamentall she may erre in proposing some Scripture for Canonicall which is not such or els erre in keeping and conseruing from corruptions such Scriptures as are already belieued to be Canonicall For I will suppose that in such Apocryphall Scripture as she deliuers there is no fundamentall error against faith or that there is no falshood at all but only want of diuine testification in which case D. Potter must either grant that it is a fundamentall error to apply diuine reuelation to any point not reuealed or els must yield that the Church may erre in her Proposition or Custody of the Canon of Scripture And so we cannot be sure whether she haue not been deceiued already in Bookes recommended by her and accepted by Christians And thus we shall haue no certainty of Scripture if the Church want certainty in all her definitions And it is worthy to be obserued that some Bookes of Scripture which were not alwayes knowne to be Canonicall haue been afterward receiued for such but neuer any one Booke or syllable defined by the Church to be Canonicall was afterward questioned or reiected for Apocryphall A signe that God's Church is infallibly assisted by the holy Ghost neuer to propose as diuine truth any thing not reuealed by God that Omission to define points not sufficiently discussed is laudable but Commission in propounding things not reuealed inexcusable into which precipitation our Sauiour Christ neuer hath nor neuer will permit his Church to fall 13. Nay to limit the generall promises of our Sauiour Christ made to his Church to points only fundamētall namely that the gates (m) Matt. 16.18 of hell shall not preuaile against her and that the holy Ghost (n) Ioan. 16.13 shall lead her into all truth c. is to destroy all Faith For we may by that doctrine and manner of interpreting the Scripture limit the Infallibility of the Apostles words preaching only to points fundamentall and whatsoeuer general Texts of Scripture shall be alleadged for their Infallibility they may by D. Potters example be explicated restrained to points fundamentall By the same reason it may be further affirmed that the Apostles and other Writers of Canonicall Scripture were endued with infallibility only in setting downe points fundamentall For if it be vrged that all Scripture is diuinely inspired that it is the word of God c. D. Potter hath affoarded you a ready answere to say that Scripture is inspired c. only in those parts or parcels wherin it deliuereth fundamentall points In this manner D. Fotherby sayth The Apostle (o) In his Sermōsserm 2. pag. 50. twice in one Chapter professed that this he speaketh not the Lord He is very well content that where he lacks the warrant of the expresse word of God that part of his writings should be esteemed as the word of man D. Potter also speakes very dangerously towards this purpose Sect. 5. where he endeauoureth to proue that the infallibility of the Church is limited to points fundamētall because as Nature so God is neither defectiue in (p) pag. 150. necessaries nor lauish in superfluities Which reason doth likewise proue that the infallibility of Scripture and of the Apostles must be restrained to points necessary to saluation that so God be not accused as defectiue in necessaries or lauish in superfluities In the same place he hath a discourse much tending to this purpose where speaking of these words The Spirit shall leade you into all truth and shall abide with (q) Joan. c. 16.13 c. 14.16 you for euer he sayth Though that promise was (r) Pag. 151.152 directly and primarily made to the Apostles who had the Spirits guidance in a more high and absolute manner then any since them yet it was made to them for the behoofe of the Church and is verified in the Church Vniuersall But all truth is not simply all but all of some kind To be led into all truths is to know and belieue them And who is so simple as to be ignorant that there are many millions of truths in Nature History Diuinity whereof the Church is simply ignorant How many truths lye vnrouealed in the infinite treasury of God's wisdome wherewith the Church is not acquainted c. so then the truth it selfe enforceth vs to vnderstand by all truths not simply all not all which God can possibly reueale but all pertayning to the substance of faith all truth absolutely necessary to saluation Marke what he sayth That promise The spirit shall lead you into all truth was made directly to the Apostles is verified in the vniuersall Church but by all truth is not vnderstood simply all but all appertayning to the substance of faith and absolutely necessary to saluation Doth it not hence follow that the promise made to the Apostles of being led into all truth is to be vnderstood only of all truth absolutly necessary to saluation consequently their preaching and writing were not infallible in points not fundamentall or if the Apostles were infallible in all things which they proposed as diuine truth the like must be affirmed of the Church because D. Potter teacheth the sayd promise to be verifyed in the Churh And as he limits the aforesayd wordes to points fundamentall so may he restrayne what other text soeuer that can be brought for the vniuersall infallibility of the Apostles or Seriptures So he may and so he must least otherwise he receiue this answere of his owne from himseife How many truths lye vnreuealed in the infinite treasury of Gods wisdome wherewith the Church is not acquainted And therefore to verify such generall sayings they must be vnderstood of truths absolutely necessary to Saluation Are not these fearefull cōsequences And yet D. Potter will neuer be able to auoyd them till he come to acknowledge the Infallibility of the Church in al points by her proposed as diuine truths thus it is vniuersally true that she is lead into al truth in regard that our Sauiour neuer permits her to define or teach any falshood 14. All that with any colour may be replied to this argument is That if once we call any one Booke or parcell of Scripture in question although for the matter it containe no fundamentall errour yet it is of great importance and fundamentall by reason of the
of eternall damnation to be belieued and obeyed in some things wherin confessedly she is endewed with infallibility I cannot in wisdome suspect her credit in matters of lesse moment For who would trust another in matters of highest consequence and be afraid to rely on him in things of lesse moment Thirdly since as I said we are vndoubtedly obliged not to forsake her in the chiefest or fundamentall points and that there is no Rule to know precisely what and how many those fundamentall points be I cannot without hazard of my soule leaue her in any one point lest perhaps that point or points wherin I forsake her proue indeed to be fundamentall and necessary to saluation Fourthly that visible Church which can not erre in points fundamentall doth without distinction propound all her Definitions concerning matters of faith to be belieued vnder Anathema's or Curses esteeming all those who resist to be deseruedly cast out of her Communion and holding it as a point necessary to saluation that we belieue she cannot erre wherin if she speake true then to deny any one point in particuler which she defineth or to affirme in generall that she may erre puts a man into state of damnation Wheras to belieue her in such points as are not necessary to saluation can not endanger saluation as likewise to remaine in her Communion can bring no great harme because she cannot maintaine any damnable error or practise but to be deuided frō her she being Christs Catholique Church is most certainely damnable Fifthly the true Church being in lawfull and certaine possession of Superiority and Power to command require Obedience from all Christians in some things I cannot without grieuous sinne withdraw my obedience in any one vnles I euidently know that the thing commanded comes not within the compasse of those things to which her Power extendeth And who can better informe me how far God's Church can proceed then God's Church herselfe Or to what Doctor can the Children and Schoollers with greater reason and more security fly for direction then to the Mother and appointed Teacher of all Christians In following her I shall sooner be excused then in cleauing to any particuler Sect or Person teaching or applying Scriptures against her doctrine or interpretation Sixtly the fearefull examples of innumerable persons who forsaking the Church vpon pretence of her errours haue failed euen in fundamentall points and suffered ship wracke of their Saluation ought to deter all Christians from opposing her in any one doctrine or practise as to omit other both ancient and moderne heresies we see that diuers chiefe Protestants pretending to reforme the corruptions of the Church are come to affirme that for many Ages she erred to death and wholy perished which D. Potter cannot deny to be a fundamentall Errour against that Article of our Creed I belieue the Catholike Church as he affirmeth it of the Donatists because they confined the vniuersall Church within Afirica or some other small tract of soile Least therefore I may fall into some fundamentall errour it is most safe for me to belieue al the Decrees of that Church which cānot erre fundamentally especially if we add That according to the Doctrine of Catholique Deuines one errour in fayth whether it be for the matter if selfe great or small destroyes fayth as is hewed in Charity Mistaken and cōsequently to accuse the Church of any one Errour is to affirme that the lost all fayth and erred damnably which very saying is damnable because at leaues Christ no visible Church on earth 21. To all these arguments I add this demōstration D. Potter teacheth that there neyther was (c) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart frō the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But if the Church of Christ can erre in some points of fayth men not only may but must forsake her in those vnles D. Potter will haue them to belieue one thing and professe another and if such errours and corruptions should fall out to be about the Churches Liturgy publique Seruice administration of Sacraments the like they who perceiue such errours must of necessity leaue her externall Cōmunion And therefore if once we grant the Church may erre it followeth that men may and ought to forsake her which is against D. Potters owne wordes or else they are inexcusable who left the Communion of the Roman Church vnder pretence of Errors which they grant not to be fundamentall And if D. Potter thinke good to answere this argument he must remember his owne doctrine to be that euen the Catholique Church may erre in points not fundamentall 22. An other argument for the vniuersall infallibility of the Church I take out of D. Potters owne words If sayth he we (d) pag. 97. did not dissent in some opinions from the present Roman Church we could not agree with the Church truly Catholique These words cannot be true vnlesse he presuppose that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall For if she may erre in such points the Roman Church which he affirmeth to erre only in points not fundamentall may agree with the Church truly Catholique if she likewise may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore either he must acknowledge a plaine contradiction in his owne words or else must grant that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall which is what we intended to proue 23. If Words cannot perswade you that in all Controuersies you must rely vpon the infallibility of the Church at least yield your assent to Deeds Hither to I haue produced Arguments drawne as it were ex naturâ rei from the Wisdome and Goodnes of God who cannot faile to haue left some infallible meanes to determine Controuersies which as we haue proued can be no other except a Visible Church infallible in all her Definitions But because both Catholiques and Protestants receiue holy Scripture we may thence also proue the infallibility of the Church in all matters which concerne Faith and Religion Our Sauiour speaketh cleerely The gates of Hell (e) Matt. 16. shall not preuaile against her And I will aske my (f) Ioan. 14. Father and he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of truth And But when he the Spirit of (g) Ioan. 16. truth cometh he shall teach you all truth The Apostle sayth that the Church is the Pillar and ground (h) 1. Tim. cap. 3. of Truth And He gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some Pastors and Doctors to the consummation of the Saints vnto the worke of the Ministery vnto the edifying of the body of Christ vntill we meete all into the vnity of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect man into the measure of the age of the fulnes of Christ that now we be not Children wauering and carried about with euery wind of dectrine
of the Whole to which the particular Vnity of Parts is subordinate This Vnity or Onenesse if so I may call it is effected by Charity vniting all the members of the Church in one Mysticall Body contrrary to which is Schisme from the Greeke word signifying Scissure or Diuision Wherfore vpon the whole matter we find that Schisme as the Angelicall Doctor S. Thomas defines it is A voluntary separation (c) 2. 2. q. 39 art in corp ad 3. from the Vnity of that Charity whereby all the members of the Church are vnited From hence he deduceth that Schisme is a speciall and particular vice distinct from Heresy because they are opposite to two different Vertues Heresy to Fayth Schisme to Charity To which purpose he fitly alleadgeth S. Hierome vpon these words Tit. 3. A man that is an Heretique after the first and second admonition auoide saying I conceiue that there is this difference betwixt Schisme and Heresy that Heresy iauolues some peruerse assertion Schisme for Episcopall dissention doth separate men from the Church The same doctrine is deliuered by S. Augustine in these words Heretiques (d) lib. 1. de fid Symb. cap. 10. and Schismatiques call their Congregations Churches but Heretiques corrupt the Fayth by belieuing of God false things but Schismatiques by wicked diuisions breake from fraternall Charity although they belieue what we belieue Therefore the Heretique belongs not to the Church because she loues God nor the Schismatique because she loues her Neighbour And in another place he sayth It is wont to be demaunded (e) Quest Euangel ex Matt. q. 11. How Schismatiques be distinguished from He retiques and this difference is found that not a diuers fayth but the deuided Society of Communion doth make Schismatiques It is then euident that Schisme is different from Heresy Neuerthelesse sayth Saint Thomas (f) vbi supra as he who is depriued of faith must needs want Charity so euery Heretique is a Schismatique but not conuersiuely euery Schismatique is an Heretique thogh because want of Charity disposes and makes way to the destruction of fayth according to those wordes of the Apostle Which a good cōscience some casting off haue suffered shipwrack in their fayth Schisme speedily degenerates to Heresy as S. Hierome after the rehearsed words teacheth saying Though Schisme in the beginning may in some sort be vnderstood different from Heresy yet there is no Schisme which doth not faigne some heresy to it selfe that so it may seeme to haue departed from the Church vpon good reason Neuertheles when Schisme proceeds originally from Heresy Heresy as being in that case the predominant quality in these two peccant humours giueth the denomination of an Heretique as on the other side we are wont especially in the beginning or for a while to call Schismatiques those men who first began with only Schisme though in processe of time they fell into some Heresy and by that meanes are indeed both Schismatiques and Heretiques 4. The reason why both Heresy and Schisme are repugnant to the being of a good Catholique is Because the Catholique or Vniuersall Church signifies One Congregation or Company of Faithfull people and therfore implies not only Faith to make them Faithfull belieuers but also Communion or Common Vnion to make them One in Charity which excludes Separation and Diuision and therfore in the Apostles Creed Communion of Saints is immediately ioyned to the Catholique Church 5. From this definition of Schisme may be inferred that the guilt therof is contracted not only by diuision from the Vniuersall Church but also by a Separation from a particular Church or Diocesse which agrees with the Vniuersall In this manner Meletius was a Schismatique but not an Heretique because as we read in S. Epiphanus (h) Haeres 68. he was of the right Faith for his fayth was not altered at any time from the holy Catholique Church c. He made a Sect but departed not from Fayth Yet because he made to himselfe a particular Congregation against S. Peter Archbishop of Alexandria his lawfull Superiour and by that meanes brought in a diuision in that particular Church we was a Schismatique And it is wel worth the noting that the Meletians building new Churches put this title vpon them The Church of Martyrs and vpon the ancient Churches of those who succeeded Peter was inscribed The Catholique Church For so it is A new Sect must haue a new name which though it be neuer so gay and specious as the Church of Martyrs the Reformed Church c. yet the Nouelty sheweth that it is not the Catholique nor a true Church And that Schisme may be committed by diuision from a particular Church we read in Optatus Mileuitanus (i) Lib. 1. cont Parmen these remarkable words which do well declare who be Schismatiques brought by him to proue that not Caecilianus but Parmenianus was a Schismatique For Caecilianus went not out from Maiorinus thy Grand-Father he meanes his next predecessour but one in the Bishopricke but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neither did Caecilianus depart from the Chaire of Peter or of Cyprian who was but a particular Bishop but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which had no beginning before Maiorinus himselfe Seing it is manifestly knowne that these things were so done it euidently appeareth that you are heires both of traditors that is of those who deliuered vp the holy Bible to be burned and of Schismatiques And it seemeth that this kind of Schisme must principally be admitted by Protestants who acknowledge no one visible Head of the whole Church but hold that euery particular Diocesse Church or Countrey is gouerned by it selfe independantly of any one Person or Generall Councell to which all Christians haue obligation to submit their iudgments and wills 6. 2. Point As for the grieuousnes or quantity of Schisme which was the second point proposed S. Thomas teacheth that amongst sinnes against our Neighbour The grieuousnes of Schisme Schisme (l) Supra art 2. ad 3. is the most grieuous because it is against the spirituall good of the multitude or Community And therfore as in a Kingdome or Common-wealth there is as great difference betweene the crime of rebellion or sedition and debates among priuate men as there is inequality betwixt one man a whole kingdome so in the Church Schisme is as much more grieuous then Sedition in a Kingdome as the spirituall good of soules surpasseth the ciuill and politicall weale And S. Thomas adds further that they loose the spirituall Power of Iurisdiction and if they goe about to absolue from sinnes or to excommunicate their actions are inualid which he proues out of the Canon Nouatianus Causa 7. quaest 1. which sayth He that keepeth neither the Vnity of spirit nor the peace of agreement and separates himselfe from the bond of the Church and the Colledge of Priests can neither haue the Power nor dignity of a Bishop The Power also of Order
from damnable Schisme And this is the true manner of Luthers reuolt taken from his owne acknowledgmēts and the words of the more ancient Protestants themselues wherby D. Potters faltring mincing the matter is cleerly discouered and confuted Vpon what motiues our Countrey was diuided from the Roman Church by king Henry the Eight and how the Schisme was continued by Queene Elizabeth I haue no hart to rip vp The world knoweth it was not vpon any zeale of Reformation 30. But you will proue your former euasion by a couple of similitudes If a Monastery (x) pag. 81.80 should reforme it selfe and should reduce into practise ancient good discipline when others would not in this case could it in reason be charged with Schisme from others or with Apostacy from its rule and order Or as in a society of men vniuersally infected with some disease they that should free themselues from the common disease could not be therfore said to separate from the society so neither can the reformed Churches be truly accused for making a Schisme from the Church seing all they did was to reforme themselues 31. I was very glad to find you in a Monastery but sorry when I perceiued that you were inuenting wayes how to forsake your Vocation and to maintaine the lawfulnes of Schisme from the Church and Apostasy from a Religious Order Yet before you make your finall resolutiō heare a word of aduise Put case That a Monastery did confessedly obserue their substantiall vowes and all principall Statutes or Constitutions of the Order though with some neglect of lesser Monasticall Obseruances And that a Reformation were vndertaken not by authority of lawfull Superiours but by some One or very few in comparison of the rest And those few knowne to be led not with any spirit of Reformation but by some other sinister intention And that the Statutes of the howse were euen by those busy-fellowes confessed to haue been time out of mind vnderstood and practised as now they were And further that the pretended Reformers acknowledged that themselues as soone as they were gone out of their Monastery must not hope to be free from those or the like errors and corruptions for which they left their Brethren And which is more that they might fall into more enormous crimes then they did or could do in their Monastery which we suppose to be secured from all substantiall corruptions for the anoyding of which they haue an infallible assistance Put I say together all these my And 's and then come with your If 's if a Monastery should reforme it selfe c. and tell me if you could excuse such Reformers from Schisme Sedition Rebellion Apostasy c What would you say of such Reformers in your Colledge or tumultuous persons in a kingdome Remember now your owne Tenets and then reflect how fit a similitude you haue picked out to proue your selfe a Schismatique You teach that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall but that for all fundamentall points she is secured from error You teach that no particular person or Church hath any promise of assistance in points fundamentall You and the whole world can witnes that when Luther began he being but only One opposed himselfe to All as well subiects as superiours and that euen then when he himselfe confessed that he had no intention of Reformation You cannot be ignorant but that many chiefe learned Protestants are forced to confesse the Antiquity of our doctrine and practise and do in seuerall and many Controuersies acknowledge that the Ancient Fathers stood on our side Consider I say these points and see whether your similitude do not condemne your Progenitors of Schisme from God's visible Church yea and of Apostasy also from their Religious Orders if they were vowed Regulars as Luther and diuers of them were 32. From the Monastery you are fled into an Hospitall of persons vniuersally infected with some disease where you find to be true what I supposed that after your departure from your Brethren you might fall into greater inconueniences and more infectious diseases then those for which you left them But you are also vpon the point to abandon these miserable needy persons in whose behalfe for Charities sake let me set before you these considerations If the disease neyther were nor could be mortall because in that Company of men God had placed a Tree of life If going thence the sick man might by curious tasting the Tree of Knowledge eate poyson vnder pretence of bettering his health If he could not hope therby to auoid other diseases like those for which he had quitted the company of the first infected men If by his departure innumerable mischiefs were to ensue could such a man without sencelenesse be excused by saying that he sought to free himselfe from the common disease but not forsooth to separate from the society Now your selfe cōpare the Church to a man deformed with (y) pag. 155. superfluous fingers and toes but yet who hath not lost any vitall part you acknowledge that out of her society no man is secured from damnable errour and the world can beare witnes what vnspeakeable mischiefes and calamities ensued Luthers reuolt from the Church Pronounce then concerning thē the same sentence which euen now I haue shewed them to deserue who in the manner aforesayd should separate from persons vniuersally infected with some disease 33. But alas to what passe hath Heresy brought men who terme thēselues Christians yet blush not to compare the beloued Spouse of our Lord the one Doue the purchase of our Sauiours most precious bloud the holy Catholique Church I meane that visible Church of Christ which Luther found spread ouer the whole world to a Monastery so disordered that it must be forsaken to the Gyant in Gath much deformed with superfluous singers and toes to a society of men vniuersally infected with some disease And yet all these comparisons much worse are neyther iniurious nor vndeserued if once it be graunted or can be proued that the visible Church of Christ may erre in any one point of Fayth although not fundamentall 34. Before I part from these similitudes one thing I must obserue against the euasion of D. Potter that they left not the Church but her Corruptions For as those Reformers of the Monastery or those other who left the company of men vniuersally infected with some disease would deny themselues to be Schismatiques or any way blame-worthy but could not deny but that they left the sayd Communities So Luther and the rest cannot so much as pretend not to haue left the visible Church which according to them was infected with many diseases but can only pretend that they did not sinne in leauing her And you speake very strangely when you say In a Society of men vniuersally infected with some disease they that should free thēselues from the Common disease could not be therefore said to separate from the Society For if they
errors of the Roman Church a reconciliation is impossible and damnable And yet he teacheth that their difference from the Roman Church is not in fundamentall points Now since among Protestants there is such diuersity of beliefe that one denieth what the other affirmeth they must be cōuicted in conscience that one part is in error at least not fundamētall and if D. Potter will speake consequently that a reconciliation between them is impossible and what greater diuision or Schisme can there be then when one part must iudge a reconciliation with the other to be impossible and damnable 39. Out of all which premisses this Conclusion followes That Luther his followers were Schismatiques from the vniuersall visible Church from the Pope Christs Vicar on earth and Successour to S. Peter from the particular Diocesse in which they receiued Baptisme from the Countrey or Nation to which they belonged from the Bishop vnder whom they liued many of them from the Religious Order in which they were Professed from one another And lastly from a mans selfe as much as is possible because the selfe same Protestant to day is conuicted in conscience that his yesterday's Opinion was an error as D. Potter knowes a man in the world who from a Puritan was turned to a moderate Protestant with whom therfore a reconciliation according to D. Potters grounds is both impossible and damnable 40. It seemes D. Potters last refuge to excuse himselfe and his Brethren from Schisme is because they proceeded according to their conscience dictating an obligation vnder damnation to forsake the errors maintayned by the Church of Rome His words are Although we confesse the (h) Pag. 81. Church of Rome to be in some sense a true Church and her errors to some men not damnable yet for vs who are conuinced in conscience that she erres in many things a necessity lyes vpon vs euen vnder paine of damnation to forsake her in those errors 41. I answere It is very strang that you iudge vs extremely Vncharitable in saying Protestāts cannot be saued while your selfe auouch the same of all learned Catholiques whom ignorance cannot excuse If this your pretence of conscience may serue what Schismatique in the Church what popular seditious braine in a kingdome may not alledge the dictamen of conscience to free themselues from Schisme or Sedition No man wishes them to do any thing against their conscience but we say that they may and ought to rectifie and depose such a conscience which is easy for them to do euen according to your owne affirmation that we Catholiques want no meanes necessary to saluation Easy to do Nay not to do so to any man in his right wits must seeme impossible For how can these two apprehensions stand together In the Roman Church I enioy all meanes necessary to saluation and yet I cannot hope to besaued in that Church or who can conioine in one braine not crack't these assertions After due examination I iudge the Roman errors not to be in themselues fundamentall or damnable and yet I iudge that according to true reason it is damnable to hold them I say according to true reason For if you grant your conscience to be erroneous in iudging that you cannot be saued in the Roman Church by reason of her errors there is no other remedy but that you must rectify your erring conscience by your other Iudgment that her errours are not fundamentall nor damnable And this is no more Charity then you daily affoard to such other Protestants as you terme Brethren whom you cannot deny to be in some errors vnles you will hold That of contradictory propositions both may be true yet you do not iudge it damnable to liue in their Communion because you hold their errours not to be fundamentall You ought to know that according to the doctrine of all Deuines there is great difference betwixt a speculatiue perswasion and a practicall dictamen of conscience and therfore although they had in speculation conceiued the visible Church to erre in some doctrines of themselues not damnable yet with that speculatiue iudgement they might ought to haue entertayned this practicall dictamen that for points not substantiall to fayth they neyther were bound nor lawfully could breake the bond of Charity by breaking vnity in Gods Church You say that hay stubble (i) Pag. 155. and such vnprofitable stuffe as are Corruptions in points not fundamental layd on the roofe destroyes not the house whilst the maine pillars are standing on the foundation And you would thinke him a mad-man who to be rid of such stuffe would set his house on fire that so he might walk in the light as you teach that Luther was obliged to forsake the house of God for an vnnecessary light not without a combustion formidable to the whole Christian world rather then beare with some errours which did not destroy the foundation of faith And as for others who entred in at the breach first made by Luther they might ought to haue guided their consciences by that most reasonable rule of Vincētius Lyrinensis deliuered in these words Indeed it is a matter of great (k) Aduers hares c. 27. moment and both most profitable to be learned necessary to be remembred which we ought againe and againe to illustrate and inculcate with weighty heapes of examples that almost all Catholiques may know that they ought to receiue the Doctours with the Church and not forsake the fayth of the Church with the Doctours And much lesse should they forsake the fayth of the Church to follow Luther Caluin and such other Nouelists Moreouer though your first Reformers had conceiued their owne opinions to be true yet they might and ought to haue doubted whether they were certaine because your selfe affirme that infallibility was not promised to any particular Persons or Churches And since in cases of vncertainties we are not to leaue our Superiour nor cast off his obedience or publiquely oppose his decrees your Reformers might easily haue found a safe way to satisfy their zealous conscience without a publique breach especially if with this their vncertainty we call to mind the peaceable possession and prescription which by the confession of your owne Brethren the Church Pope of Rome did for many ages enioy I wish you would examine the workes of your Brethren by the words your selfe sets downe to free S. Cyprian from Schisme euery syllable of which words conuinceth Luther and his Cōpartners to be guilty of that crime and sheweth in what manner they might with great ease quietnes haue rectified their conscience about the pretended errours of the Church S. Cyprian say you was a peaceable (l) Pag. 124. and modest man dissented from others in his iudgement but without any breach of Charity condemned no man much lesse any Church for the contrary opinion He belieued his owne opinion to be true but belieued not that it was necessary and therefore did not
proceed rashly and peremptorily to censure others but left them to their liberty Did your Reformers imitate this manner of proceeding Did they censure no man much lesse any Church S. Cyprian belieued his owne Opinion to be true but belieued not that it was necessary and THEREFORE did not proceed rashly and peremptorily to censure others You belieue the points wherin Luther differs from vs not to be fundamentall or necessary and why do you not thence infer the like THEREFORE he should not haue proceeded to censure others In a word since their disagreement from vs concerned only points which were not fundamentall they should haue belieued that they might haue been deceaued as well as the whole visible Church which you say may erre in such points and therefore their doctrines being not certainely true and certainely not necessary they could not giue sufficient cause to depart from the Communion of the Church 42. In other places you write so much as may serue vs to proue that Luther and his followers ought to haue deposed and rectified their consciences As for example when you say When the Church (m) pag. 103. hath declared her selfe in any matter of opinion or of Rites her declaration obliges all her children to peace and externall obedience Nor is it fit or lawfull for any priuate man to oppose his iudgement to the publique as Luther and his fellowes did He may offer his opinion to be considered of so he do it with euidence or great probability of Scripture or reason and very modestly still contayning himselfe within the dutifull respect which he oweth but if he will factiously aduāce his own conceyts his owne conceyts and yet grounded vpō euidence of Scripture despise the Church so farre as to cut of her Communion he may be iustly branded and condemned for a Schismatique yea and an Heretique also in some degree in foro exteriori though his opinion were true and much more if it be false Could any man euen for a Fee haue spoken more home to condemne your Predecessors of Schisme or Heresy Could they haue stronger Motiues to oppose the doctrine of the Church and leaue her Communion then euidence of Scripture And yet according to your owne words they should haue answered and rectifyed their conscience by your doctrine that though their opinion were true and grounded vpon euidence of Scripture or reason yet it was not lawfull for any priuate man to oppose his iudgment to the publique which obligeth all Christians to peace and externall obedience and if they cast of the communion of the Church for maintayning their owne Conceits they may be branded for Schismatiques and Heretiques in some degree and in foro exteriori that is all other Christians ought so to esteeme of them and why then are we accounted vncharitable for iudging so of you and they also are obliged to behaue themselues in the face of all Christian Churches as if indeed they were not Reformers but Schismatiques and Heretiques or as Pagans and Publicans I thanke you for your ingenuous confession in recompence wherof I will do a deed of Charity by putting you in mind into what labyrinths you are brought by teaching that the Church may erre in some points of fayth and yet that it is not lawfull for any man to oppose his iudgment or leaue her Communion though he haue euidence of Scripture against her Will you haue such a man dissemble against his conscience or externally deny a truth knowne to be contained in holy Scripture How much more coherently do Catholiques proceed who belieue the vniuersall infallibility of the Church and from thence are assured that there can be no euidence of Scripture or reason against her definitions nor any iust cause to forsake her Cōmunion M. Hooker esteemed by many Protestants an incomparable man yields as much as we haue alledged out of you The will of God is sayth he to haue (n) In his Preface to his bookes of Ecclesiastical policy Sect. 6. pag. 28. them do whatsoeuer the sentence of iudiciall and finall docision shall determine yea though it seeme in their priuate opinion to swarue vtterly from that which is right Doth not this man tell Luther what the will of God was which he transgressing must of necessity be guilty of Schisme And must not M. Hooker either acknowledge the vniuersall infallibility of the Church or else driue men into the perplexities and labyrinths of distembling against their conscience wherof now I spake Not vnlike to this is your doctrine deliuered elsewhere Before the Nicene Councell say you many (o) pag. 131. good Catholique Bishops were of the same opinion with the Donatists that the Baptisme of Heretiques was ineffectuall and with the Nouatians that the Church ought not to absolue some grieuous sinners These errors therfore if they had gone no further were not in themselues Hereticall especially in the proper and most heauy or bitter sense of that word neither was it in the Churches intention or in her power to make them such by her declaration Her intention was to silence all disputes and to settle peace and Vnity in her gouernment to which all wise and peaceable men submitted whatsoeuer their opinion was And those factious people for their vnreasonable and vncharitable opposition were very iustly branded for Schismatiques For vs the Mistaker will neuer proue that we oppose any declaration of the Catholique Church c. and therfore he doth vniustly charge vs either with Schisme or Heresy These words manifestly condemne your Reformers who opposed the visible Church in many of her declarations Doctrines and Commaunds imposed vpon them for silencing all disputes and setling peace and Vnity in the gouernment and therfore they still remayning obstinately disobedient are iustly charged with Schisme and Heresy And it is to be obserued that you grant the Donatists to haue been very iustly branded for Schismatiques although their opposition against the Church did concerne as you hold a point not fundamentall to the Fayth and which according to S. Augustine cannot be proued out of Scripture alone and therfore either doth euidently conuince that the Church is vniuersally infallible euen in points not fundamentall or else that it is Schisme to oppose her declarations in those very things wherin she may erre and consequently that Luther and his fellowes were Schismatiques by opposing the visible Church for points not fundamentall though it were vntruly supposed that she erred in such points But by the way how come you on the suddaine to hold the determination of a Generall Councell of Nice to be the declaration of the Catholique Church seeing you teach That Generall Councels may erre euen fundamentally And do you now say with vs that to oppose the declaration of the Church is sufficient that one may be branded with Heresy which is a point so often impugned by you 43. It is therfore most euident that no pretended scruple of conscience could excuse Luther which he might and
cont Parm. went not out of Maiorinus thy Grand-Father but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neither did Caecilianus depart from the Chaire of Peter or Cyprian but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which before Maiorinus Luther had no beginning Seing it is euident that these things passed in this manner that for example Luther departed from the Church and not the Church from Luther it is cleere that you be HEIRES both of the giuers vp of the Bible to be burned and of SCHISMATIQVES And the Regall Power or example of Henry the Eight could not excuse his Subiects from Schisme according to what we haue heard out of S. Chrysostome saying Nothing doth so much prouoke (d) Hom 11. In ep st ad Epâ—â—s the wrath of Almighty God as that the Church should be diuided Although we should do innumerable good deeds if we diuide the full Ecclesiasticall Congregation we shall be punished no lesse then they who did rend his naturall Body for that was done to the gaine of the whole world though not with that intention but this hath no good in it at all but that the greatest hurt riseth from it These things are spoken not only to those who be are office but to such also as are gouerned by them Behold therfore how liable both Subiects and Superiours are to the sinne of Schisme if they breake the vnity of God's Church The words of S. Paul can in no occasion be verified more then in this of which we speake They who do such things (e) Rom. 1.32 are worthy of death and not only they that do them but they also that consent with the doers In things which are indifferent of their owne nature Custome may be occasion that some act not well begun may in time come to be lawfully coÌ„tinued But no length of Time no Quality of Persons no Circumstance of Necessity can legitimate actions which are of their owne mature vnlawfull and therfore diuision from Christs my sticall Body being of the number of those actions which Deuines teach to be intrinsece malas euill of their owne nature and essence no difference of Persons or Time can euer make it lawfull D. Potter sayth There neither was nor can be any cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe And who dares say that it is not damnable to continue a Separation from Christ Prescription cannot in conscience runne when the first beginner and his Successours are conscious that the thing to be prescribed for example goods or lands were vniustly possessed at the first Christians are not like strayes that after a certaine time of wandring from their right home fall from their owner to the Lord of the Soile but as long as they retaine the indeleble Character of Baptisme and liue vpon earth they are obliged to acknowledge subiection to God's Church Human Lawes may come to nothing by discontinuance of Time but the Law of God commaunding vs to conserue Vnity in his Church doth still remaine The continued disobedience of Children cannot depriue Parents of their paternall right nor can the Grand-child be vndutifull to his Grand Father because his Father was vnnaturall to his owne Parent The longer God's Church is disobeyed the profession of her Doctrine denyed her Sacraments neglected her Liturgy condemned her Vnity violated the more grieuous the fault growes to be as the longer a man with-holds a due debt or retaines his Neighbours goods the greater iniustice he commits Constancy in euill doth not extenuate but aggrauate the same which by extension of Time receiueth increase of strength addition of greater malice If these mens conceits were true the Church might come to be wholy diuided by wicked Schismes and yet after some space of time none could be accused of Schisme nor be obliged to returne to the visible Church of Christ and so there should remaine no One true visible Church Let therfore these men who pretend to honour reuerence belieue the Doctrine and practise of the visible Church and to condemne their forefathers who fosooke her and say they would not haue done so if they had liued in the dayes of their Fathers and yet follow their example in remaining diuided from her Communion consider how truly these words of our Sauiour fall vpon them Wo be to you because you build (f) Matt. 23. â— 29. c. the Prophets sepulchers and garnish the monuments of iust men and say If we had been in our Fathers dayes we had not been their fellowes in the bloud of the Prophets Therfore you are a testimony to your owne selues that you are the sonnes of them that killed the Prophets and fill vp the measure of your Fathers 46. And thus hauing demonstrated that Luther his Associates and all that continue in the Schisme by them begunne are guilty of Schisme by departing from the visible true Church of Christ it remaineth that we examine what in particular was that Visible true Church from which they departed that so they may know to what Church in particular they ought to returne and then we shall haue performed what was proposed to be handled in the fifth Point 47. That the Roman Church I speake not for the present of the particular Diocesse of Rome 5 Point but of all visible Churches dispersed throughout the whole world agreeing in faith with the Chaire of Peter Luther the rest departed froÌ„ the Roman Church whether that Sea were supposed to be in the Citty of Rome or in any other place That I say the Church of Rome in this sense was the visible Catholique Church out of which Luther departed is proued by your owne Confession who assigne for notes of the Church the true Preaching of Gods Church and due Administration of Sacraments both which for the substance you cannot deny to the Roman Church since you confesse that she waÌ„ted nothing fundamentall or necessary to saluation and for that very cause you thinke to cleare your selfe from Schisme whose property as you say is to cut off from the (g) pag. 78. Body of Christ and the Hope of Saluation the Church from which it separates Now that Luther and his fellowes were borne and baptized in the Roman Church and that she was the Church out of which they departed is notoriously knowne And therefore you cannot cut her off from the Body of Christ Hope of Saluation vnles you will acknowledge your selfe to deserue the iust imputatioÌ„ of Schisme Neyther can you deny her to be truly Catholique by reason of pretended corruptions not fundamentall For your selfe auouch and endeauour to proue that the true Catholique Church may erre in such points Moreouer I hope you will not so much as go about to proue that when Luther rose there was any other true visible Church disagreeing from the Roman agreeing with Protestants in their particular doctrines and you cannot deny but that England in those dayes agreed with Rome and other Nations with England
beg and yet he himselfe brake into heresy because he had been depriued by the Archbishop of Canterbury of a certaine Benefice as all Schismes heresies begin vpon passion which they seeke to couer with the cloake of Reformation Thirdly he condemned lawfull Oaths like the Anabaptists Fourthly he taught that all things came to passe by absolute necessity Fiftly he defended human merits as the wicked Pelagians did namely as proceeding from naturall forces without the necessary help of God's grace Sixtly that no man is a Ciuill Magistrate while he is in mortall sinne and that the people may at their pleasure correcÌ„t Princes when they offend by which doctrine he proues himselfe both an Heretique and a Traytour 53. As for Husse his chiefest Doctrines were That Lay people must receiue in both kinds and That Ciuill Lords Prelates and Bishops loose all right and authority while they are in mortall sinne For other things he wholy agreed with Catholiques against Protestants and the Bohemians his followers being demaunded in what points they disagreed from the Church of Rome propounded only these The necessity of Communion vnder both kinds That all ciuill Dominion was forbidden to the Clergy That Preaching of the word was free for all men and in all places That open Crimes were in nowise to be permitted for auoyding of greater euill By these particulars it is apparant that Husse agreed with Protestants against vs in one only point of both Kinds which according to Luther is a thing indifferent because he teacheth that Christ in this matter (q) In epist ad Bohemos commaunded nothing as necessary And he sayth further If thou come to a place (r) De vtr aâ—â— que specie Sacram. where one only kind is administred vse one kind only as others do Melancthon likewise holds it a thing (s) In Cent. epist. Theol. pag. 225. indifferent and the same is the opinion of some other Protestants All which considered it is cleer that Protestants cannot challenge the Waldenses Wicclifse and Husse for members of their Church although they could yet that would aduaÌ„tage them litle towards the finding out a perpetuall visible Church of theirs for the reasons aboue (t) Num. 49. specifyed 54. If D. Potter would go so farre off as to fetch the Muscouites Armenians Georgians Aethiopians or Abissines into his Church they would proue ouer deare bought For they eyther hold the damnable heresy of Eutiches or vse Circumcision or agree with the Greeke or Roman Church And it is most certayne that they haue nothing to do with the doctrine of Protestants 55. It being therefore granted that Christ had a visible Church in all ages and that there can be none assigned but the Church of Rome it followes that she is the true Cath. Church and that those pretended Corruptions for which they forsooke her are indeed diuine truths deliuered by the visible Catholique Church of Christ And that Luther and his followers departed from her and consequently are guily of Schisme by diuiding themselues from the Communion of the Roman Church Which is cleerely conuinced out of D. Potter himselfe although the Roman Church were but a particular Church For he sayth Whoseuer professes (u) Pag. 70. himselfe to forsake the Communion of any one meÌ„ber of the body of Christ must confesse himselfe consequently to forsake the whole Since therefore in the same place he expressely acknowledges the Church of Rome to be a member of the Body of Christ and that it is cleere they haue forsaken her it euidently followes that they haue forsaken the whole and therefore are most properly Schismatiques 56. And lastly since the crime of Schisme is so grieuous that according to the doctrine of holy Fathers rehearsed aboue no multitude of good workes no morall honesty of life no cruell death endured euen for the profession of some Article of faith can excuse any one who is guilty of that sinne from damnation I leaue it to be considered whether it be not true Charity to speake as we belieue and to belieue as all Antiquity hath taught vs That whosoeuer eyther beginnes or continues a diuision for the Roman Church which we haue proued to be Christs true Militant Church on earth cannot without effectuall repentance hope to be a meÌ„ber of his Triumphant Church in heauen And so I conclude with these words of blessed Saint Augustine It is common (w) Cont. Parm. lib. 2 â—ap 3. to all Heretiques to be vnable to see that thing which in the world is the most manifest and placed in the light of all Nations out of whose Vnity whatsoener they worke though they seeme to doe it with great care and diligence can no more auaile them against the wrath of God then the Spiders web agaynst the extremity of cold But now it is high tyme that we treat of the other sort of Diuision from the Church which is by Heresy CHAP. VI. That Luther and the rest of Protestants haue added Heresy vnto Schisme BECAVSE Vice is best knowne by the contrary Vertue we cannot well determine what Heresy is nor who be Heretiques but by the opposite vertue of Fayth whose Nature being once vnderstood as farre as belongs to our present purpose we shall passe on with ease to the definition of Heresy and so be able to discerne who be Heretiques And this Iâ—ntend to do not by entring into such particular Questions as are controuerted betweene Catholiques and Protestants but only by applying some generall grounds eyther already proued or els yielded to on all sides 2. Almighty God hauing ordayned Man to a supernaturall End of Beatitude by supernaturall meanes it was requisite that his Vnderstanding should be enabled to apprehend that End and Meanes by a supernaturall knowledge And because if such a knowledge were no more then probable it could not be able sufficiently to ouerbeare our Will encounter with human probabilities being backed with the streÌ„gth of flesh and bloud It was further necessary that this supernatural knowledge should be most certaine and infallible and that Fayth should belieue nothing more certainely then that it selfe is a most certaine Beliefe and so be able to beate downe all gay probabilities of humane Opinion And because the aforesayd Meanes and End of Beatificall Vision do farre exceed the reach of naturall wit the certainty of fayth could not alwayes be ioyned with such euidence of reason as is wont to be found in the Principles or Conclusions of humane naturall Sciences that so all flesh might not glory in the arme of flesh but that he who glories should glory (a) 2. Cor. 10 in our Lord. Moreouer it was expedient that our belife or assent to diuine truths should not only be vnknowne or ineuident by any humane discourse but that absolutely also it should be obscure in it selfe and ordinarily speaking be void euen of supernaturall euidence that so we might haue occasion to actuate and testifie the obedience which we owe to our
meanes of holy Tradition we cannot conioyne the present Church doctrine with the Church and doctrine of the Apostles but must inuent some new meanes and arguments sufficient of themselues to find out and proue a true Church and fayth independently of the preaching and writing of the Apostles neither of which can be knowne but by Tradition as is truly obserued by Tertullian saying I will prescribe that (l) Praesc 5.21 there is no meanes to proue what the Apostles preached but by the same Churches which they founded 6. Thus then we are to proceed By euidēce of manifest and incorrupt Tradition I know that there hath alwayes been a neuer interrupted Succession of men from the Apostles tyme belieuing professing and practising such and such doctrines By euident arguments of credibility as Miracles Sanctity Vnity c. and by all those wayes whereby the Apostles and our Blesseed Sauiour himselfe confirmed their doctrine we are assured that what the sayd neuer interrupted Church proposeth doth deserue to be accepted aknowledged as a diuine truth By euidence of Sense we see that the same Church proposeth such and such doctrines as diuine truths that is as reuealed and testifyed by Almighty God By this diuine Testimony we are infallibly assured of what we belieue and so the last period ground motiue and formall obiect of our Fayth is the infallible testimony of that supreme Verity which neyther can deceyue nor be deceiued 7. By this orderly deduction our Faith commeth to be endued with these qualities which we said were requisite thereto namely Certainly Obscurity and Pruderce Certaimy proceeds from the infallible Testimony of God propounded conueied to our vnderstanding by such a meane as is infallible in it selfe and to vs is euidently knowne that it proposeth this point or that and which can manifestly declare in what sense it proposeth them which meanes we haue proued to be only the visible Church of Christ Obscurity from the māner in which God speakes to Mankind which ordinarily is such that it doth not manifestly shew the person who speakes nor the truth of the thing spoken Prudence is not wanting because our fayth is accompanied with so many arguments of Credibility that euery wel disposed Vnderstanding may ought to iudge that the doctrines so cōfirmed deserue to be belieued as proceeding from Authority 8. And thus from what hath been said we may easily gather the particular nature or definition of Fayth For it is a voluntary or free infallible obscure assent to some truth because it is testifyed by God is sufficiently propounded to vs for such which proposal is ordinarily made by the visible Church of Christ I say Sufficiently proposed by the Church not that I purpose to dispute whether the proposall of the Church enter into the formall Obiect or motiue of Fayth or whether an error be any heresy formally and precisely because it is against the proposition of the Church as if such proposall were the formall Obiect of fayth which D. Potter to no purpose at all labours so very hard to disproue But I only affirme that when the Church propoūds any Truth as reuealed by God we are assured that it is such indeed so it instantly growes to be a fit Obiect for Christian fayth which onclines and enables vs to belieue whatsoeuer is duely presented as a thing reuealed by Almighty God And in the same manner we are sure that whosoeuer opposeth any doctrine proposed by the Church doth thereby contradict a truth which is testified by God As when any lawfull Superiour notifies his will by the meanes and as it were proposall of some faithfull messenger the subiect of such a Superiour in performing or neglecting what is deliuered by the messenger is said to obey or disobey his owne lawfull Superiour And therfore because the testimony of God is notified by the Church we may and we do most truly say that not to belieue what the Church proposeth is to deny God's holy word or testimony signified to vs by the Church according to that saying of S. Irenaeus We need not goe (m) Lib. 3. cont heres cap. 4. to any other to seeke the truth which we may easily receiue from the Church 9. From this definition of fayth we may also know what Heresy is by taking the contrary termes as Heresy is contrary to Fayth and saying Heresy is a voluntary error against that which God hath reucaled and the Church hath proposed for such Neither doth it import whether the error concerne points in themselues great or small fundamentall or not fundamentall For more being required to an act of Vertue then of Vice if any truth though neuer so small may be belieued by Fayth assoone as we know it to be testified by diuine rouelation much more will it be a formall Heresy to deny any least point sufficiently propoūded as a thing witnessed by God 10. This diuine Fayth is diuided into Actuall and Habituall Actuall fayth or fayth actuated is when we are in act of consideration and beliefe of some mystery of Fayth for example that our Sauiour Christ is true God and Man c. Habituall fayth is that from which we are denominated Faithfull or Belieuers as by actuall fayth they are stiled Belieuing This Habit of fayth is a Quality enabling vs most firmely to belieue Obiects aboue human discourse and it remaineth permanently in our Soule euen when we are sleeping or not thinking of any Mystery of Fayth This is the first among the three Theologicall Vertues For Charity vnites vs to God as he is infinitely Good in himselfe Hope ties vs to him as he is vnspeakably Good to vs. Fayth ioynes vs to him as he is the Supreme immoueable Verity Charity relies on his Goodnes Hope on his Power Fayth on his diuine Wisedome From hence it followeth that Fayth being one of the Vertues which Deuines terme Infused that is which cannot be acquired by human wit or industry but are in their Nature Essence supernaturall it hath this property that it is not destroied by little and little contrarily to the Habits called acquisiti that is gotten by human endeuour which as they are successiuely produced so also are they lost successiuely or by little and little but it must either be conserued entire or wholy destroied And since it cannot stand entire with any one act which is directly contrary it must be totally ouerthrowne and as it were demolished and razed by euery such act Wherfore as Charity or the Loue of God is expelled from our soule by any one act of Hatred or any other mortall sinne against his diuine Maiesty and as Hope is destroied by any one act of voluntary Desperation so Fayth must perish by any one act of Heresy because euery such act is directly and formally opposite therunto I know that some sinnes which as Deuines speake are ex genere suo in in their kind grieuous and mortall may be much lessened and fall to be
vniuersall Church She hath this (t) Cont. lit Petil. lib. 1. cap. 104. most certaine marke that she cannot be hidden She is then knowne to all Nations The Sect of Donatus is vnknown to many Nations therfore that cannot be she The Sect of Luther at least when he began and much more before his beginning was vnknowne to many Nations therfore that cannot be she 17. And that it may yet further appeare how perfectly Luther agreed with the Donatists It is to be noted that they neuer taught that the Catholique Church ought not to extend it selfe further then that part of Africa where their faction raigned but only that in fact it was so confined because all the rest of the Church was prophaned by communicating with Caecilianus whom they falsly affirmed to haue been ordained Bishop by those who were Traditours or giuers vp of the Bible to the Persecutors to be burned yea at that very time they had some of their Sect residing in Rome and sent thither one Victor a Bishop vnder colour to take care of their Brethren in that Citty but indeed as Baronius (u) Anno 321. nu 2. Spond obserueth that the world might account them Catholiques by communicating with the Bishop of Rome to communicate with whom was euen taken by the Ancient Fathers as an assured signe of being a true Catholique They had also as S. Augustine witnesseth a pretended (w) De Vni Eccles c. 3. Church in the howse and territory of a Spanish Lady called Lucilla who went flying out of the Catholique Church because she had been iustly checked by Caectlianus And the same Saint speaking of the conference he had with Fortunius the Donatist sayth Heere did he first (x) Ep. 163. attempt to affirme that his Communion was spread ouer the whole Earth c. but because the thing was euidently false they got out of this discourse by confusion of language wherby neuertheles they sufficiently declared that they did not hold that the true Church ought necessarily to be confined to one place but only by meere necessity were forced to yield that it was so in fact because their Sect which they held to be the only true Church was not spread ouer the world In which point Fortunius and the rest were more modest then he who should affirme that Luther's reformation in the very beginning was spead ouer the whole Earth being at that time by many degrees not so far diffused as the Sect of the Donatists I haue no desire to prosecute the similitude of Protestants with Donatists by remembring that the Sect of these men was began and promoted by the passion of Lucilla and who is ignorant what influence two women the Mother and Daughter ministred to Protestancy in England Nor will I stand to obserue their very likenes of phrase with the Donatists who called the Chaire of Rome the Chaire of pestilence and the Roman Church an Harlot which is D. Potter's owne phrase wherin he is lesse excusable then they because he maintaineth her to be a true Church of Christ therfore let him duely ponder these words of S. Augustine against the Donatists If I persecute him iustly who detracts (y) Conc. super gest cust Emeriâ— from his Neighbour why should I not persecute him who detracts from the Church of Christ and sayth this is not she but this is an Harlot And least of all will I consider whether you may not be well compared to one Ticonius a Donatist who wrote against Parmenianus likewise a Donatist who blasphemed that the Church of Christ had perished as you do euen in this your Booke write against some of your Protestant Brethren or as you call them Zelots among you who hold the very same or rather a worse Heresy and yet remained among them euen after Parmenianus had excommunicated him as those your Zealous Brethren would proceed agaynst you if it were in their power and yet like Ticonius you remaine in their Communion and come not into that Church which is hath been and shall euer be vniuersall For which very cause S. Augustin complaines of Ticonius that although he wrote against the Donatists yet he was of an hart (z) De doctr Christ lib. 3. cap. 30. so extremely absurd as not to forsake them alto gether And speaking of the same thing in another place he obserues that although Ticonius did manifestly confute them who affirmed that the Church had perished yet he saw not sayth this holy Father that which in good consequence (a) Cont. Parm. l. 1. cap. 1. he should haue seene that those Christians of Africa belonged to the Church spread ouer the whole world who remained vnited not with them who were diuided from the communion and vnity of the same world but with such as did communicate with the whole world But Parmenianus and the rest of the Donatists saw that consequence and resolued rather to settle their mind in obstinacy against the most manifest truth which Ticonius maintained then by yielding therto to be ouercome by those Churches in Africa which enioyed the communion of that vnity which Ticonius defended from which they had diuided themselues How fitly these words agree to Catholiques in England in respect of the Protestants I desire the Reader to consider But these and the like resemblances of Protestants to the Donatistes I willingly let passe and onely vrge the maine point That since Luthers Reformed Church was not in being for diuers Centuries before Luther and yet was because so forsooth they will needs haue it in the Apostles time they must of necessity affirme heretically with the Donatists that the true and vnspotted Church of Christ perished that she which remained on earth was O blasphemy an Harlot Moreouer the same heresy followes out of the doctrine of D. Potter and other Protestants that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall because we haue shewed that euery errour against any one reuealed truth is Heresy and damnable whether the matter be otherwise of it selfe great or small And how can the Church more truly be sayd to perish then when she is permitted to maintaine a damnable Heresy Besides we will heereafter proue that by any act of Heresy all diuine fayth is lost to imagine a true Church of faithfull persons without any fayth is as much as to fancy a liuing man without life It is therefore cleere that Donatist-like they hold that the Church of Christ perished yea they are worse then the Donatists who said that the Church remained at least in Africa whereas Protestants must of necessity be forced to grant that for a long space before Luther she was no where at all But let vs goe forward to other reasons 18. The holy Scripture and Ancient Fathers do assigne Separation from the Visible Church as a marke of Heresy according to that of S. Iohn They went out (b) 2. Ioan 19. from vs. And Some who (c) Act. 15.24 went out from
vs. And Our of you shall (d) Act. 203.30 arise men speaking peruerse things And accordingly Vincentius Lyrinensis sayth Who euer (e) Lib. ad uersus haer cap. 34. began heresies who did not first separate himselfe from the Vniuersality Antiquity and Consent of the Catholique Church But it is manifest that when Luther appeared there was no visible Church distinct from the Roman out of which she could depart as it is likewise well knowne that Luther his followers departed out of her Therfore she is no way lyable to this Marke of Heresy but Protestants cannot possibly auoid it To this purpose S. Prosper hath these pithy words A Christian communicating (f) Dimid temp cap. 5. with the vniuersall Church is a Catholique and he who is diuided from her is an Heretique and Antichrist But Luther in his first Reformation could not communicate with the visible Catholique Church of those times because he began his Reformation by opposing the supposed Errors of the then visible Church we must therfore say with S. Prosper that he was an Heretique c. Which likewise is no lesse cleerly proued out of S. Cyprian saying Not we (g) Lib. de Vnit Ecles departed from them but they from vs and since Heresies and Schismes are bred afterwards while they make to themselues diuers Conuenticles they haue forsaken the head and origen of Truth 19 And that we might not remaine doubtfull what separation it is which is the marke of Heresy the ancient Fathers tel vs more in particular that it is from the Church of Rome as it is the Sea of Peter And therfore D. Potter need not to be so hot with vs because we say writ that the Church of Rome in that sense as she is the Mother Church of all others and with which all the rest agree is truly callled the Catholique Church S. Hierome writing to Pope Damasus sayth I am in the Communion (h) Ep. 57. ad Damas of the Chayre of Peter I know that the Church is built vpon that Rocke Whoseuer shall eate the LaÌ„be out of this house he is profane If any shall not be in the Arke of Noe he shall perish in the tyme of the deluge Whosoeuer doth not gather with thee doth scatter that is he that is not of Christ is of Antichrist And els where 's Which doth he (i) Lib. 1. Apolog call his fayth That of the Roman Church Or that which is contained in the Bookes of Origen If he answere the Roman then we are Catholiques who haue translated nothing of the error of Origen And yet further Know thou that the (k) Ibid. lib. 3. Roman fayth commended by the voyce of the Apostle doth not receiue these delusions though an Angell should denounce otherwise then it hath once been preached S. Ambrose recounting how his Brother Satyrus inquiring for a Church wherin to giue thanks for his deliuery from Shipwrack sayth he called vnto him (l) De obitu Satyris fratri the Bishop neither did he esteeme any fauour to be true except that of the true fayth and he asked of him whether he agreed with the Catholique Bishops that is with the Roman Church And hauing vnderstood that he was a Schismatique that is separated from the Roman Church he abstained from communicating with him Where we see the priuiledge of the Roman Church confirmed both by word and deed by doctrine and practise And the same Saint sayth of the Roman Church From thence the Rights (m) lib. 1. ep 4. ad Jmperatores of Venerable Communion do flow to all S. Cyprian sayth They are bold (n) Epist. 55. ad Cornel. to saile to the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Church from whence Priestly Vnity hath sprung Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose Fayth was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse Where we see this holy Father ioynes together the principall Church and the Chaire of Peter and affirmeth that falshood not only hath not had but cannot haue accesse to that Sea And else where Thou wrotest that I should send (o) Epist 52. a Coppy of the same letters to Cornelius our Collegue that laying aside all solicitude he might now be assured that thou didst Communicate with him that is with the Catholique Church What thinke you M. Doctor of these words Is it so strang a thing to take for one and the same thing to communicate with the Church Pope of Rome and to communicate with the Catholique Church S. Irenaeus sayth Because it were long to number the successions of all Churches (p) Lib. 3. çont haer c. 3. we declaring the Tradition and fayth preached to men and comming to vs by Tradition of the most great most ancient and most knowne Church founded by the two most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul which Tradition it hath from the Apostles comming to vs by succession of Bishops We confound all those who any way either by cuill complacence of themselues or vaine glory or by blindnes or ill Opinion do gather otherwise then they ought For to this Church for a more powerfull Principality it is necessary that all Churches resort that is all faythfull people of what place soeuer in which Roman Church the Tradition which is from the Apostles hath alwayes been conserued from those who are euery where S. Augustin sayth It griâ—â—ues vs (q) In psal cont partâ—â—n Donati to see you so to ly cut off Number the Priest euen from the Sea of Peter and consider in that order of Fathers who succeeded to whome She is the Rook which the proud Gates of Hell do not ouâ—rcome And in another place speaking of Cacilianu he sayth He might contemne the conspiring (r) Ep. 162. multitude of his Enemies because he knew himselfe to be vnited by Communicatory letters both to the Roman Church in which the Principality of the Sea Apostolique did alwayes florish and to other Countreys from whence the Gospell came first into Africa Ancient Tertullian sayth If thou be neere Italy thou hast Rome whose (s) Praeser cap. 36. Authority is neere at hand to vs a happy Church into which the Apostles haue powred all Doctrine together with their bloud S. Basill in a letter to the Bishop of Rome sayth In very deed that which was giuen (t) Epist. ad Pont. Rom. by our Lord to thy Piety is worthy of that most excellent voyce which proclaymed thee Blessed to wit that thou maist discerne betwixt that which is counterfeit and that which is lawfull and pure and without any diminution mayest preach the Fayth of our Ancestors Maximianus Bishop of Constantinople about twelue hundred yeares agoe said All the bounds of the earth who haue sincerely acknowledged our Lord and Catholiques through the whole world professing the true Faith looke vpon the power of the Bishop of Rome as vpon the sunne c. For the Creator of the
world amongst all men of the world elected him he speakes of S. Peter to whom he granted the Chaire of Doctour to be principally possessed by a perpetuall right of Priuiledge that whosoeuer is desirous to know any diuine and profound thing may haue recourse to the Oracle and Doctrine of this instruction Iohn Patriarck of Constantinople more then eleauen hundred yeares agoe in an Epistle to Pope Hormisda writeth thus Because (u) Epist ad Hormis PP the beginning of saluation is to conserue the rule of right Fayth in no wise to swarue from the tradition of our for-Fathers because the words of our Lord cannot faile saying Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke I will build my Church the proofes of deeds haue made good those words because in the Sea Apostolicall the Catholique Religion is alwayes conserued inuiolable And againe We promise heerafter not to recite in the sacred Mysteries the names of them who are excluded from the Communion of the Catholique Church that is to say who consent not fully with the Sea Apostolique Many other Authorities of the ancient Fathers might be produced to this purpose but these may serue to shew that both the Latin Greeke Fathers held for a Note of being a Catholique or an Heretique to haue been vnited or diuided from the Sea of Rome And I haue purposely alledged only such Authorities of Fathers as speake of the priuiledges of the Sea of Rome as of things permament and depending on our Sauiours promise to S. Peter from which a generall rule and ground ought to be taken for all Ages because Heauen and Earth shall (w) Matt. 24.35 passe but the word of our Lord shall remaine for euer So that I heere conclude that seing it is manifest that Luther and his followers diuided themselues from the Sea of Rome they beare the inseparable Marke of Heresy 20. And though my meaning be not to treate the point of Ordination or Succession in the Protestants Church because the Fathers alledged in the last reason assigne Succession as one marke of the true Church I must not omit to say that according to the grounds of Protestants themselues they can neyther pretend personall Succession of Bishops nor Succession of doctrine For whereas Succession of Bishops signifies a neuer-interrupted line of Persons endued with an indeleble Quality which Deuines call a Character which caÌ„not be taken away by deposition degradation or other meanes whatsoeuer and endued also with Iurisdiction and Authority to teach to preach to gouerne the Church by lawes precepts censures c. ProtestaÌ„ts cannot pretend SuccessioÌ„ in either of these For besids that there was neuer Protestant Bishop before Luther and that there can be no continuance of Succession where there was no beginning to succeed they coÌ„monly acknowledge no Character consequently must affirme that when their pretended Bishops or Priests are depriued of Iurisdiction or degraded they remaine meere lay Persons as before their Ordination fulfilling what Tertâ—â—â—lian obiects as a marke of Heresy To day a Priest to morrow (x) Praeser çap. 41. a Lay-man For if there be no immoueable Character their power of Order must consist onely in Iurisdiction and authority or in a kind of morall deputation to some function which therefore may be taken away by the same power by which it was giuen Neither can they pretend Succcession in Authority or Iurisdiction For all the Authority or Iurisdiction which they had was conferred by the Church of Rome that is by the Pope Because the whole Church collectiuely doth not meet to ordayne Bishops or Priests or to giue them Authority But according to their owne doctrine they belieue that the Pope neyther hath or ought to haue any Iurisdiction Power Superiority Preheminence or Authority Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme which they sweare euen when they are ordained Bishops Priests and Deacons How then can the Pope giue Iurisdiction where they sweare he neyther hath nor OVGHT to haue any Or if yet he had how could they without Schisme withdraw themselues from his obedience Besides the Roman Church neuer gaue them Authority to oppose Her by whome it was giuen But grant their first Bishops had such Authority from the Church of Rome after the decease of those men who gaue Authority to their pretended Successours The Primate of England But from whome had he such Authority And after his decease who shall conferre Authority vpon his Successours The temporall Magistrate King Henry neyther a Catholique nor a Protestant King Edward a Child Queene Elizabeth a Woman An Infant of one houres Age is true King in case of his Predecessours decease But shal your Church lye fallow till that Infant-King and greene Head of the Church come to yeares of discretion Doe your Bishops your Hierarchy your Succession your Sacraments your being or not being Heretiques for want of Succession depeÌ„d on this new-found Supremacy-doctrine brought in by such a man meerely vpon base occasions and for shamefull ends impugned by Caluin and his followers derided by the Christian world euen by chiefe Protestants as D. Andrewes Wotton c. not held for any necessary point of fayth And from whome I pray you had Bishops their Authority when there were no Christian Kinges Must the Greeke Patriarks receiue spirituall Iurisdiction from the Greeke Turke Did the Pope by the Baptisme of Princes loose the spirituall Power he formerly had of conferring spirituall Iurisdiction vpon Bishops Hath the temporall Magistrate authority to preach to assoile from sinnes to inflict excommunications and other Censures Why hath he not Power to excommunicate as well as to dispense in Irregularity as our late Soueraigne Lord King Iames either dispensed with the late Archbishop of Canterbury or els gaue commission to some Bishops to doe â—t and since they were subiect to their Primate and not he to them it is cleere that they had no Power to dispense with him but that power must proceed from the Prince as Superiour to them all and head of the Protestants Church in England If he haue no such authority how can he giue to others what himselfe hath not Your Ordination or Consecration of Bishops and Priests imprinting no Character can only consist in giuing a Power Authority Iurisdiction or as I said before some kind of Deputation to exercise Episcopall or Priestly functions If then the temporall Magistrate confers this Power c. he can nay he cannot chuse but Ordaine and consecrate Bishops and Priests as often as he confers Authority or Jurisdiction and your Bishops as soone as they are designed and confirmed by the King must ipso faclo be Ordained and Consecrated by him without interuention of Bishops or Matter and Forme of Ordination Which absurdities you will be more vnwilling to grant then well able to auoid if you will be true to your owne doctrines The Pope from whom originally you must beg your Succession of Bishops neuer receiued nor will nor can acknowledge to
receiue any Spirituall Iurisdiction from any Temporall Prince and therfore if Iurisdiction must be deriued from Princes he hath none at all and yet either you must acknowledge that he hath true spirituall Iurisdiction or that your Selues can receiue none from him 21. Moreouer this new Reformation or Reformed Church of Protestants will by them be pretended to be Catholique or Vniuersall and not confined to England alone as the Sect of the Donatists was to Africa and therfore it must comprehend all the Reformed Churches in Germany Holland Scotland France c. In which number they of Germany Holland and France are not gouerned by Bishops nor regard any personall Successiō vnles of such fat-beneficed Bishops as Nicolaus Amsfordius who was consecrated by Luther though Luther himselfe was neuer Bishop as witnesseth (y) In Millenario sexto pag. 187. Dresserus And though Scotland hath of late admitted some Bishops I much doubt whether they hold them to be necessary or of diuine Institution and so their enforced admitting of them doth not so much furnish that kingdome with personall Succession of Bishops as it doth conuince them to want Succession of Doctrine since in this their neglect of Bishops they disagree both from the milder Protestants of England and the true Catholique Church And by this want of a cōtinued personall Succession of Bishops they retaine the note of Schisme Heresy So that the Church of Protestants must either not be vniuersall as being confined to England Or if you will needs comprehend all those Churches which want Succession you must confesse that your Church doth not only communicate with Schismaticall and Hereticall Churches but is also compounded of such Churches your selues cannot auoid the note of Schismatiques or Heretiques if it were but for participating with such hereticall Churches For it is impossible to retaine Communion with the true Catholique Church and yet agree with them who are diuided from her by Schisme or Heresy because that were to affirme that for the selfe same time they could be within and without the Catholique Church as proportionably I discoursed in the next precedent Chapter concerning the Communicating of moderate Protestants with those who maintaine that Heresy of the Latency and Inuisibility of Gods Church where I brought a place of S. Cyprian to this purpose which the Reader may be pleased to reuiew in the Fifth Chapter and 17. Number 22. But besides this defect in the personall Succession of Protestant Bishops there is another of great moment which is that they wāt the right Forme of ordaining Bishops and Priests because the manner which they vse is so much different from that of the Roman Church at least according to the common opinion of Deuines that it cannot be sufficient for the Essence of Ordination as I could demonstrate if this were the proper place of such a Treatise and will not fayle to doe if D. Potter giue me occasion In the meane time the Reader may be pleased to read the Authour (z) See Adamum Tānerum tom 4. disp 7. quaest 2. dub 3. 4. cited heere in the margent then compare the forme of our Ordination with that of Protestants and to remēber that if the forme which they vse eyther in Consecrating Bishops or in Ordayning Priests be at least doubtfull they can neyther haue vndoubted Priests nor Bishops For Priests cannot be ordayned but by true Bishops nor can any be a true Bishop vnles he first be Priest I say their Ordination is at least doubtfull because that sufficeth for my present purpose For Bishops and Priests whose Ordination is notoriously knowne to be but doubtfull are not to be esteemed Bishops or Priests and no man without Sacriledge can receiue Sacraments from them all which they administer vnlawfully And if we except Baptisme with manifest danger of inualidity and with obligation to be at least conditionally repeated so Protestants must remaine doubtfull of Remission of sinnes of their Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy and may not pretend to be a true Church which cannot subsist without vndoubted true Bishops and Priests nor without due administration of Sacraments which according to Protestants is an essentiall note of the true Church And it is a world to obserue the proceeding of English Protestants in this point of their Ordinations For first Ann. 3. Edw. 6. cap. 2. when he was a Child about twelue yeares of age It was enacted that such (a) Dyer fol 234. term Mich. 6. 7. Eliz. forme of making and consecrating of Bishops and Priests as by six Prelates and six other to be appointed by the King should be deuised marke this word deuised and set forth vnder the great Seale should be vsed and none other But after this Act was repealed 1. Mar. Sess 2. in so much as that when afterward An. 6. 7. Reg. Eliz. Bishop Bonner being endicted vpon a certifitate made by D. Horne a Protestant Bishop of Winchester for his refusal of the Oath of Supremacy and he excepting agaynst the endictment because D. Horne was no Bishop all the Iudges resolued that his exceptiō was good if indeed D. Horne was not Bishop and they were all at a stand till An. 8. Eliz. cap. 1. the act of Edw. 6. was renewed and confirmed with a particular prouiso that no man should be impeched or molested by meanes of any certificate by any Bishop or Archbishop made before this last Act. Whereby it is cleere that they made some doubt of their owne ordination and that there is nothing but vncertainty in the whole busines of their Ordination which forsooth must depend vpon six Prelats the great Seale Acts of Parlaments being contrary one to another and the like 23. But though they want Personall Succession yet at least they haue Succession of doctrine as they say pretend to proue because they belieue as the Apostles belieued This is to begg the Question and to take what they may be sure will neuer be graunted For if they want Personall Succession and sleight Ecclesiasticall Tradition how will they perswade any man that they agree with the doctrine of the Apostles We haue heard Tertullian saying I will prescribe (b) Sup. 〈…〉 against all Heretiques that there is no meanes to proue what the Apostles preached but by the same Churches which they founded And S. Irenaeus tels vs that We may (c) L. 3. 〈…〉 behold the Tradition of the Apostles in euery Church if men be desirous to beare the truth and we can number them who were made Bishops by the Apostles in Churches and their Successors euen to vs. And the same Father in another place sayth We ought to obey (d) L. 4. 〈◊〉 43. those Priests who are in the Church who haue Succession from the Apostles and who together with Succession in their Bishoprickes haue receiued the certaine guift of truth S. Augustin sayth I am kept in the Church (e) Contr. epist. Fundam cap. 4. by the Succession of Priests from the
is persuaded that his owne opinions be true and that he hath vsed such meanes as are wont to be prescribed for vnderstanding the Scripture as Prayer Conferring of diuers Texts c. and yet their disagreements shew that some of them are deceiued And therefore it is cleer that they haue no one certaine ground whereon to relye for vnderstanding of Scripture And seeing they hold all the Articles of Fayth euen concerning fundamentall points vpon the selfe same ground of Scripture interpreted not by the Churches Authority but according to some other Rules which as experience of their contradictions teach do sometymes fayle it is cleere that the ground of their fayth is infallible in no point at all And albeit sometyme it chance to hit on the truth yet it is likewise apt to leade them to errour As all Arch-heretiques belieuing some truths and withall diuers errours vpon the same ground and motiue haue indeed no true diuine infallible fayth but only a fallible humane opinion and persuasion For if the ground vpon which they rely were certaine it could neuer produce any errour 28. Another cause of Vncertainty in the fayth of Protestants must rise from their distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall For since they acknowledge that euery errour in fundamentall points destroieth the substance of fayth and yet cannot determine what points be fundamentall it followeth that they must remaine vncertayne whether or no they be not in some fundamentall errrour so want the substance of fayth without which there can be no hope of Saluation 24. And that he who erreth against any one reuealed truth as certainly some Protestants must doe because contradictory Propositions cannot both be true doth loose all Diuine fayth is a very true doctrine deliuered by Catholique Deuines with so generall a consent that the contrary is wont to be censured as temerarious The Angelicall Doctour S. Thomas proposeth this Question Whether (o) 2.2 q. 3. ar 3. in â—orp he who denyeth one Article of fayth may retayne fayth of other Articles and resolueth that he caÌ„not which he proueth Argumenta sed contra because As deadly sinne is opposite to Charity so to deny one Article of fayth is opposite to fayth But Charity doth not remaine with any one deadly sinne therefore faith doth not remaine after the denyall of any one Article of fayth Whereof he giues this further reason Because sayth he the nature of euery habit doth depend vpon the formall Motiue Obiect therof which Motiue being taken away the nature of the habit cannot remayne But the formall Obiect of faith is the supreme truth as it is manifested in Scriptures and in the doctrine of the Church which proceeds froÌ„ the same supreme verity Whosoeuer therefore doth not rely vpon the doctrine of the Church which proceeds from the supreme Verity manifested in Scriptures as vpon an infallible Rule he hath not the habit of fayth but belieues those things which belong to fayth by some other meanes then by fayth as if one â—hould remember some Conclusion and not know the reason of that demonstration it is cleere that he hath not certaine knowledge but only Opinion Now it is manifest that he who relies on the doctrine of the Church as vpon an infallible Rule will yield his assent to all that the Church teacheth For if among those things which she teacheth he hold what he will and doth not hold what he will not he doth not rely vpon the doctrine of the Church as vpon an infallible Rule but only vpon his owne will And so it is cleere that an Heretique who with pertinacity denieth one Article of fayth is not ready to follow the doctrine of the Church in all things And therfore it is manifest that whosoeuer is an Heretique in any one Article of fayth concerning other Articles hath not fayth but a kind of Opinion or his owne will Thus far S. Thomas And afterward A man doth belieue (q) Ad 2. all the Articles of fayth for one and the selfe same reason to wit for the Prime Verity proposed to vs in the Scripture vnderstood aright according to the Doctrine of the Church and therfore whosoeuer fals from this reason or motiue is totally depriued of fayth From this true doctrine we are to infer that to retaine or want the substance of fayth doth not consist in the matter or multitude of the Articles but in the opposition against Gods diuine Testimony which is inuolued in euery least error against Fayth And since some Protestants must needs erre and that they haue no certaine Rule to know why rather one then another it manifestly followes that none of them haue any Certainty for the substance of their faith in any one point Moreouer D. Potter being forced to confesse that the Roman Church wants not the substance of fayth it followes that she doth not erre in any one point against fayth because as we haue seen out of S. Thomas euery such error destroyes the substance of fayth Now if the Roman Church did not erre in any one point of fayth it is manifest that Protestants erre in all those points wherin they are contrary to her And this may suffice to proue that the fayth of Protestants wants Infallibility 30. And now for the second Condition of fayth I say If Protestants haue Certainty They want the second Condition of Fayth Obscurity they want Obscurity and so haue not that fayth which as the Apostle saith is of things not appearing or not necessitating our Vnderstanding to an assent For the whole edifice of the fayth of Protestants is setled on these two Principles These particular Bookes are Canonicall Scripture And the sense and meaning of these Canonicall Scriptures is cleere and euident at least in all points necessary to Saluation Now these Principles being once supposed it cleerly followeth that what Protestants belieue as necessary to Saluation is euidently knowne by them to be true by this argument It is certayne and euident that whatsoeuer is contayned in the word of God is true But it is certaine and euident that these Bookes in particular are the word of God Therefore it is certaine and euident that whatsoeuer is contayned in these Bookes is true Which Conclusion I take for a Maior in a second Argument and say thus It is certaine and euident that whatsouer is contayned in these Bookes is true but it is certayne and euident that such particular Articles for example the Trinity Incarnation Originall sinne c. are coÌ„tained in these Bookes Therfore it is certaine and euident that these particular Obiects are true Neyther will it auaile you to say that the sayd Principles are not euident by naturall discourse but only to the eye of reason cleered by grace as you speake For supernaturall euidence no lesse yea rather more drawes and excludes obscurity then naturall euidence doth neyther can the party so enlightned be sayd voluntarily to captiuate his vnderstanding to that
cannot haue it in act And as Baptisme is necessary for remission of Originall and actuall sinne committed before it so the Sacrament of Confession or Penance is necessary in re or in vote in act or desire for the remission of mortall sinnes cōmitted after Baptisme The Minister of which Sacrament of Penance being necessarily a true Priest true Ordination is necessary in the Church of God for remission of sinnes by this Sacrament as also for other ends not belonging to our present purpose From hence it riseth that no ignorance or impossibility can supply the want of those meanes which are absolutely necessary to saluation As if for example a sinner depart this world without repenting himselfe of all deadly sinnes although he dye suddenly or vnexpectedly fall out of his wits and so commit no new sinne by omission of repentance yet he shall be eternally punished for his former sinnes committed and neuer repented If an Infant dye without Baptisme he cannot be saued not by reason of any actuall sinne committed by him in omitting Baptisme but for Originall sinne not forgiuen by the meanes which God hath ordained to that purpose Which doctrine all or most Protestants will for ought I know grant to be true in the Children of Infidels yea not only Lutherans but also some other Protestants as M. Bilson late of Winchester (f) In his true difference c. part 4 pag. 368. 369. and others hold it to be true euen in the Children of the faithfull And if Protestants in generall disagree from Catholiques in this point it cannot be denyed but that our disagreement is in a point very fundamentall And the like I say of the Sacrament of Penance which they deny to be necessary to saluation either in act or in desire which error is likewise fundamentall because it concernes as I sayd a thing necessary to saluation And for the same reason if their Priesthood and Ordination be doubtfull as certainly it is they are in danger to want a meanes without which they cannot be saued Neither ought this rigour to seeme strang or vniust For Almighty God hauing of his owne Goodnes without our merit first ordained Man to a supernaturall end of eternall felicity and then after our fall in Adam vouchsafed to reduce vs to the attayning of that End if his blessed Will be pleased to limit the attayning of that End to some meanes which in his infinite Wisedome he thinkes most fit who can say why dost thou so Or who can hope for that End without such meanes Blessed be his diuine Maiesty for vouchsafing to ordaine vs base creatures to so sublime an End by any meanes at all 4 Out of the foresayd difference followeth another that generally speaking in things necessary only because they are commaunded it is sufficient for auoydnng sinne that we proceed prudently and by the conduct of some probable opinion maturely weighed and approued by men of vertue learning wisdom Neyther are we alwayes obliged to follow the most strict and seuere or secure part as long as the doctrine which we imbrace proceeds vpon such reasons as may warrant it to be truly probable and prudent though the contrary part want not also probable grounds For in humane affaires and discourse euidence and certainty cannot be alwayes expected But when we treate not precisely of auoyding sin but moreouer of procuring some thing without which I can not be saued I am obliged by the Law Order of Charity to procure as great certainty as morally I am able and am not to follow euery probable Opinion or dictamen but tutiorem partem the safer part because if my probability proue false I shall not probably but certainly come short of Saluation Nay in such case I shall incurre a new sinne against the Vertue of Charity towards my selfe which obligeth euery one not to expose his soule to the hazard of eternall perdition when it is in his power with the assistance of Gods grace to make the matter sure From this very ground it is that althogh some Deuines be of opiniō that it is not a sinne to vse some Matter or Forme of Sacraments onely probable if we respect precisely the reuerence or respect which is due to Sacraments as they belong to the Morall infused Vertue of Religion yet when they are such Sacraments as the inualidity therof may endanger the saluation of soules all doe with one consent agree that it is a grieuous offence to vse a doubtfull or onely probable Matter or Forme when it is in our power to procure certainty If therefore it may appeare that though it were not certaine that Protestancy vnrepented destroyes Saluation as we haue proued to be very certayne yet at least that is probable with all that there is a way more safe it will follow out of the grounds already layd that they are obliged by the law of Charity to imbrace that safe way 5. Now that Protestants haue reason at least to doubt in what case they stand is deduced frō what we haue sayd and proued about the vniuersall infallibility of the Church and of her being Iudge of Controuersies to whome all Christians ought to submit their Iudgment as euen some Protestants grant and whome to oppose in any one of her definitions is a grieuous sinne As also from what we haue sayd of the Vnity Vniuersality and Visibility of the Church and of Succession of Persons and Doctrine Of the Conditions of Diuine Fayth Certainty Obscurity Prudence and Supernaturality which are wanting in the fayth of Protestants Of the friuolous distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall the cofutation wherof proueth that Heretiques disagreeing among themselues in any least point cannot haue the same fayth nor be of the same Church Of Schisme of Heresy of the Persons who first reuolted from Rome and of their Motiues of the Nature of Fayth which is destroyed by any least errour it is certaine that some of them must be in errour and want the substance of true fayth and since all pretend the like certainty it is cleere that none of them haue any certainty at all but that they want true fayth which is a meanes most absolutly necessary to Saluation Moreouer as I sayd heertofore since it is granted that euery Errour in fundamentall points is damnable that they cannot tell in particular what points be fundamentall it followes that none of them knowes whether he or his Brethren do not erre dānably it being certayne that amongst so many disagreeing persons some must erre Vpō the same groūd of not being able to assigne what points be fundamentall I say they cannot be sure whether the difference among them be fundamentall or no and consequently whether they agree in the substance of fayth and hope of Saluation I omit to add that you want the Sacrament of Pennance instituted for remission of sinnes or at least you must confesse that you hold it not necessary and yet your owne Brethren
for example the Century Writers doe (g) Cent. 3. cap. 6. col 127. acknowledge that in the tymes of Cyprian and Tertulian Priuate Confession euen of Thoghts was vsed and that it was then commanded and thought necessary The like I say concerning your Ordination which at least is very doubfull consequently all that depends thereon 6. On the other side that the Roman Church is the safer way to Heauen not to repeat what hath been already sayd vpon diuers occasions I will againe put you in mynd that vnles the Roman Church was the true Church there was no visible true Church vpon Earth A thing so manifest that Protestants themselues confesse that more then one thousand yeares the Roman Church possessed the whole world as we haue shewed heertofore out of their own (h) Chap. 5. num 9. words from whence it followes that vnlesse Ours be the true Church you cannot pretend to any perpetuall visible Church of your Owne but Ours doth not depend on yours before which it was And heere I wish you to consider with feare and trembling how all Roman Catholiques not one excepted that is those very men whom you must hold not to erre damnably in their beliefe vnlesse you wil destroy your owne Church and saluation do with vnanimous consent belieue and professe that Protestancy vnrepented destroies Saluation and then tell me as you will answere at the last day whether it be not more safe to liue die in that Church which euen your selues are forced to acknowledge not to be cut off from hope of saluatioÌ„ which are your owne words then to liue in a Church which the sayd confessedly true Church doth firmely belieue and constantly professe not to be capable of saluation And therfore I conclude that by the most strict obligation of Charity towards your owne soule you are bound to place it in safety by returning to that Church from which your Progenitors Schismatically departed least too late you find that saying of the holy Ghost verified in your selues He that loues (i) Eccles â— 27. the danger shall perish therin 7. Against this last argument of the greater security of the Roman Church drawne from your owne confession you bring an Obiection which in the end will be found to make for vs against your selfe It is taken from the words of the Donatists speaking to Catholiques in this manner Your selues confesse (k) pag. 112. our Baptisme Sacraments and Fayth heer you put an Explication of your owne and fay for the most part as if any small error in fayth did not destroy all Faith to be good and auayleable We deny yours to be so and say there is no Church no saluation amongst you Therfore it is safest for all to ioyne with vs. 8. By your leaue our Argument is not as you say for simple people alone but for all them who haue care to saue their soules Neither is it grounded vpon your Charitable Iudgment as you (l) Pag. 81. speake but vpon an ineuitable necessity for you either to grant saluation to our Church or to entaile certaine damnation vpon your owne because yours can haue no being till Luther vnles ours be supposed to haue been the true Church of Christ And since you terme this Argument a Charme take heed you be none of those who according to the Prophet Dauid do not heare the voyce of him (m) Psal v. 6. who charmeth wisely But to come to the purpose Catholiques neuer granted that the Donatists had a true Church or might be saued And therfore you hauing cited out of S. Augustin the words of the Catholiques that the Donatists had true Baptisme when you come to the coÌ„trary words of the Donatists you add No Church No Saluation making the Argument to haue quinque terminos without which Addition you did see it made nothing against vs For as I said the Catholiques neuer yielded that among the Donatists there was a true Church or hope of saluation And your selfe a few leaues after acknowledge that the Donatists maintained an errour which was in the Matter and Nature of it properly hereticall against that Article of the Creed wherin we professe to belieue the holy (n) pag. 125. Catholique Church and consequently you cannot allow saluation to them as you do and must do to vs. And theÌ„rfore the Donatists could not make the like argument against Catholiques as Catholiques make against you who grant vs Saluation which we deny to you But at least you will say this Argument for the Certainty of their Baptisme was like to Ours touching the Security and Certainty of our saluation therfore that Catholiques should haue esteemed the Baptisme of the Donatists more Certaine then their owne and so haue allowed Rebaptization of such as were baptized by Heretiques or sinners as the Donatists esteemed all Catholiques to be I answere no. Because it being a matter of fayth that Baptisme administred by Heretiques obseruing due Matter Forme c. is valide to rebaptize any so baptized had beene both a sacriledge in reitering a Sacrament not reiterable and a profession also of a damnable Heresy and therfore had not been more safe but certainly damnable But you confesse that in the doctrine or practise of the Roman Church there is no beliefe or profession of any damnable errour which if there were euen your Church should certainly be no Church To belieue therfore and professe as we do cannot exclude Saluation as Rebaptization must haue done But if the Donatists could haue affirmed with truth that in the opinion both of Catholiques and themselues their Baptisme was good yea and good in such sort as that vnles theirs was good that of the Catholiques could not be such but theâ—â—s might be good though that of the Catholiques were not and further that it was no damnable error to belieue that Baptisme administred by the Catholiques was not good nor that it was any Sacriledge to reiterate the same Baptisme of Catholiques If I say they could haue truly affirmed these things they had said somewhat which at least had seemed to the purpose But these things they could not say with any colour of truth and therfore their argument was fond and impious But we with truth say to Protestants You cannot but confesse that our doctrine containes no damnable error and that our Church is so certainely a true Church that vnlesse ours be true you cannot pretend any Yea you grant that you should be guilty of Schisme if you did cut off our Church from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation But we neither do nor can grant that yours is a true Church or that within it there is hope of saluation Therfore it is safest for you to ioyne with vs. And now against whom hath your Obiection greatest force 9. But I wonder not a little and so I thinke will euery body else what the reason may be that you do not so much as goe about to answere the
argument of the Donatists which you say is all one with Ours but refer vs to S. Augustin there to read it as if euery one caried with him a Library or were able to examine the places in S. Augustine and yet you might be sure your Reader would be greedy to see some solid answere to an Argument so often vrged by vs and which indeed vnles you can confute it ought alone to moue euery one who hath care of his soule to take the safest way by incorporating himselfe in our Church But we may easily imagine the true reason of your silence For the answere which S. Augustine giues to the Donatists is directly against your selfe and the same which I haue giuen Namely that Catholiques (o) Ad lit Petil. lib. 2. cap. 108. approue the Baptisme of Donatists but abhor their heresy of Rebaptization And that as gold is good which is the similitude vsed by (p) Contrae Cresc lib. 1. cap. 21. S. Augustin yet not to be sought in company of theeues so though Baptisme be good yet it must not be sought for in the Conuenticle of Donatists But you free vs from damnable heresy and yield vs saluation which I hope is to be imbraced in whatsoeuer Company it is found or rather that Company is to be imbraced before all other in which all sides agree that saluation may be found We therfore must infer that it is safest for you to seeke saluation among vs. You had good reason to conceale S. Augustins answere to the Donatists 10. You frame another argument in our behalfe make vs speake thus If Protestants belieue the (q) pag. 79. Religion of Catholiques to be a safe way to Heauen why do they not follow it Which wise argument of your owne you answere at large and confirme your answere by this instance The Iesuits and Dominicans hold different Opinions touching Predetermination and the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Yet so that the Iesuits hold the Dominicans way safe that is his errour not damnable and the Dominicans hold the same of the Iesuits Yet neither of them with good Consequence can presse the other to belieue his opinion because by his owne Confession it is no damnable error 11. But what Catholique maketh such a wise demaund as you put into our mouths If our Religion be a safe way to heauen that is not dānable why do you not follow it As if euery thing that is good must be of necessity imbraced by euery body But what thinke you of the Argument framed thus Our Religion is safe euen by your Confession therfore you ought to grant that all may imbrace it And yet further thus Among different Religions and contrary wayes to heauen one only can be safe But Ours by your owne Confession is safe wheras we hold that in yours there is no hope of saluation Therfore you may and ought to imbrace ours This is our Argument And if the Dominicans and Iesuits did say one to another as we say to you then one of them might with good consequence presse the other to belieue his opinion You haue still the hard fortune to be beaten with your owne weapon 12. It remaineth then that both in regard of Fayth and Charity Protestants are obliged to vnite themselues with the Church of Rome And I may add also in regard of the Theologicall Vertue of Hope without which none can hope to be saued and which you want either by excesse of Confidence or defect by Despaire not vnlike to your Fayth which I shewed to be either deficient in Certainty or excessiue in Euidence as likewise according to the rigid Caluinists it is either so strong that once had it can neuer be lost or so more then weake and so much nothing that it can neuer be gotten For the true Theologicall Hope of Christians is a Hope which keepes a meane betweene Presumption and Desperation which moues vs to worke our saluation with feare and trembling which conducts vs to make sure our saluation by good workes as holy Scripture aduiseth But contrarily Protestants do either exclude Hope by Despaire with the Doctrine that our Sauiour died not for all and that such want grace sufficient to saluation or else by vaine Presumption groūded vpon a fantasticall persuasion that they are Predestinate which Fayth must exclude all feare and trembling Neither can they make their Calling certaine by good workes who do certainly belieue that before any good workes they are iustified and iustified euen by Fayth alone and by that Faith wherby they certainly belieue that they are iustifyed Which points some Protestants do expresly affirme to be the soule of the Church the principall Origen of saluatiō Of all other points of Doctrine the chiefest and weightiest as already I haue noted Chap. 3. n. 19. And if some Protestants do now relent from the rigour of the aforesaid doctrine we must affirme that at least some of them want the Theologicall Vertue of Hope yea that none of them can haue true Hope while they hope to be saued in the Communion of those who defend such doctrines as doe directly ouerthrow all true Christian Hope And for as much as concernes Fayth we must also infer that they want Vnity therin and consequently haue none at all by their disagreement about the soule of the Church the principall Origen of saluation of all other points of Doctrine the chiefest and weightiest And if you want true Fayth you must by consequence want Hope or if you hold that this point is not to be so indiuisible on either side but that it hath latitude sufficient to imbrace all parties without preiudice to their saluation notwithstanding that your Brethren hold it to be the soule of the Church c. I must repeate what I haue said heertofore that euen by this Example it is cleere you cannot agree what points be fundamentall And so to whatsoeuer answere you fly I presse you in the same manner and say that you haue no Certainty whether you agree in fundamentall points or Vnity and substance of Fayth which cannot stand with difference in fundamentall And so vpon the whole matter I leaue it to be considered whether Want of Charity can be iustly charged on vs because we affirme that they cannot without repentance be saued who want of all other the most necessary meanes to saluation which are the three Theologicall Vertues FAITH HOPE and CHARITY 13. And now I end this first Part hauing as I conceiue complyed with my first designe in that measure which Tyme Commodity scarcity of Bookes and my owne small Abilities could affoard which was to shew that Amongst men of different Religions one side onely can be saued For since there must be some infallible Meanes to decide all Controuersies concerning Religion and to propound truth reuealed by Almighty God and this Meanes can be no other but the Visible Church of Christ which at the tyme of Luthers appearance was only the Church of
Rome and such as agreed with her We must conclude that whosoeuer opposeth himself to her definitions or forsaketh her Cōmunion doth resist God himselfe whose spouse she is and whose diuine truth she propounds and therefore becomes guilty of Schisme and Heresy which since Luther his Associates and Protestants haue done and still continue to doe it is not Want of Charity but aboundance of euident cause that forceth vs to declare this necessary Truth PROTESTANCY VNREPENTED DESTROYES SALVATION The End of the first Part. THE SECOND PART THE PREAMBLE SINCE I haue handled the substance of our present Controuersy ansvvered the chiefe grounds of D. Potter in the First Part I may vvell in this Second be more briefe referring the Reader to those seueral places vvherin his reasons are confuted and his obiections ansvvered And because in euery Section he handleth so many different points that they cannot be ranged vnder one Title or Argument my Chapters must accordingly haue no particular Title as they had in the First Part but the Reader may be pleased to conceiue and yet do me no more then Iustice therein that the Argument of euery one of my seauen Chapters is an Ansvvere to his Seauen Sections as they lye in order But let vs novv addresse our speach to D. Potter CHAP. I. YOV pretend and professe in your Preface to the Reader that you haue not omitted without Answer any one thing of moment in all the Discourse of Charity Mistaken and yet you omit that which very much imported to the Question in hand namely the moderate Explication of our doctrine that Protestancy vnrepented destroyes Saluation and that you must say the same of vs if you belieue your owne Religion to be true and Ours to be false which points are prudently deliuered by Charity Mistaken in his second Chapter which togeather with his First you vndertake to answere in this your First Section And wheras he shewed by diuers arguments that it is improbable that the Church should want Charity your Answere to that point is superficiall and vntrue in some things and none at all in others as will easily appeare to any that shal reade Charity Mistaken in his first Chapter 2. You tell vs in very confident manner that hardly (a) Pag. 33. any Age in former times may compare with this of Ours since this Church was happily purged from Popery for publike expressions of Charity but you doe it in so generall termes as if you were afrayd of being confuted For I beseech you D. Potter are the Churches which Protestants haue built any thing comparable to thē which haue been erected by Catholiques Doe your Hospitalls so much deserue as to be named Haue you any thing of that kind in effect of particular note sauing the fow meane Nurseries of idle beggars and debauched people except perhaps Suitons Hospitall which as I haue beene informed was to take no profit at all till he was dead He who as I haue also vnderstood dyed so without any Children or Brothers or Sisters or knowne kindred as that peraduenture it might haue eschetead to the King He who liued a wretched and penurious life and drew that masse of wealth together by Vsury in which case according to good conscience his estate without asking him leaue was by the Law of God obnoxious to restitution and ought to haue been applyed to pious vses Whereas both anciently in this Countrey and at all tymes and specially in this last age men see aboundance of heroicall actions of this kind performed in forrayne parts And if it were not for feare of noting many other great Citties as if there were any want of most munificent Hospitalls in them wherein they abound I could tell you of one called the Annunciata in the Citty of Naples which spends three hundred thousand Crownes per annum which comes to about fourescore thousand pounds sterling by the yeare which euer feeds and cures a thousand sicke persons and payes for the nursing and entertayning of three thousand sucking children of poore people and hath fourteene other distinct Hospitals vnder it where the persons of those poore creatures are kept and where they are defrayed of all their necessary charges euery weeke I could also tell you of an Hospitall in Rome called S. Spirito of huge reuenewes but it is not my meaning to enter into particulars which would proue endles In the meane time it is prety entertainment for you to belieue no more then you see which is not much and to talke in generall termes by comparing that which comes in your way with those which are in other Countries wherof you seeme to know very little And where I pray you can you verify that which Charity Mistaken sayth of our Church in these words pag. 7. Persons sicke of all diseases are serued and attended after the example of Christ our Lord by the owne hands of great Princes and Prelates and of choyce and delicate Ladies and Queenes in the Communion of the holy Catholique Church Would to God the first Head of your Church had not destroyed those innumerable glorious monumēts of Charity which he found But because our present question about the Saueablenes of Protestants belongeth rather to Faith then Charity out of your owne hyperbolicall affirmation I will infer That seeing the Monuments of Charitable workes performed by Catholiques do incomparably exceed those of yours and yet that time for time your Charity as you affirme surpasseth ours it followes very cleerly that our Fayth and Church is far more ancient then yours and consequently that yours cannot be Catholique for all Ages So that by exaggeration of your Charity you haue ouerthrowne your Fayth and Charity also which cannot subsist without true Catholique Fayth 3. But yet you are so ingenuous that you do not so much as pretend to compare your Charity in conuerting soules to that of the Catholiques nor do you so much as once venture to insinuate that the Protestant Ministers leaue their Countrey and Commodities and the howses of rich and louing friends to transport themselues into barbarous Nations with the sufferance of all cruell inconueniences and very many times of death it selfe for the conuersion of soules to Christ our Lord. For of this you were expressely tould and consequently how improbable it was that Catholiques should seare the daungerous state of Protestants through meere want of Charity wheras yet for the only exercise of that vertue they were content with so much courage and ioy to cast away their liues that therfore when we made that iudgment of you it was rather through our zeale and cordiall desire of your good and feare of your losse then for want of charity or compassion But of this as I was saying you were so wise as not to speake a word For that glorious marke of the Dilatation and Amplitude of Gods Church by the Conuersion of Nations Kings and Kingdomes so manifestly foretold by the holy Prophets and ordained in the Gospell
Symboli Apostolici ad instar Censurae Parisiensis But in your second Edition being as it seemes sory for your former sincerity you say absolutely Censura Symboli Apostolici with an c. which helpes you in diuers occasions both to deceiue the Reader and yet to saue your selfe when you shall be told of corrupting the sentence by leauing out words as in this particular the Reader will conceiue that it was an absolute Censure of the Apostles Creed wheras contrarily it supposeth that the Creed as a thing most sacred cannot be censured and out of that supposition taxeth a certaine Censure framed as he thinkes in such manner that the Creed it selfe could not be free from mens Censure if such a forme of Censure might passe for currant This I say is the drift of that Censure and not to censure the Creed which thing I touch but to answere you who infer that some Catholiques seeme very meanely to esteeme the Creed But my intention is not to medle any way with that Censure of the Creed whose Authour in very deed is vnknowne to me or with any Bookes or Censures in that kind wholy leauing those affaires to the Vicar of Christ the Successour of S. Peter which is a great happines proper to Catholiques who though they may disagree as men yet as Catholiques they haue meanes to end all Controuersies by recourse and submission to one supreme Authority CHAP. II. YOVR Second Section treates principally of two points The Vnity of the Church wherein it consists and The Communion of the Church how farre necessary Both these points haue been handled in the first Part where I proued that Difference in any one point of fayth destroyeth the Being and Vnity of Fayth and of the Church And That Communion with the true Visible Church is so far necessary that all voluntary error against her definitions as Heresy is and all diuision from her outward Society which is Schisme excludes saluation By these Rules we can certainly know what is damnable Schisme and Heresy whereas you placing the Vnity of Fayth and truth of a Church in the beliefe of points which you call fundamentall although it be ioyned with difference in a thousand other points and yet not knowing what Articles in particular be fundamentall must giue this finall resolution The Vnity of fayth and of the Church consists in We know not what Moreouer if you measure the Nature and Vnity of fayth not by the formall motiue for which we belieue to wit the Word or Reuelation of God but by the weight of the particular obiects which are belieued you will not be able to shew that he who erreth in some one or more fundamentall points doth loose diuine infallible fayth in respect of those other truths which he belieues and by this meanes Persons disagreeinge euen in Fundamentall points may retaine the same substance or essence of fayth and be of the selfe same true Church which is most absurd makes a faire way to affirme that Iewes and Turkes are of the same Church with Christians because they all agree in the beliefe of one God And thus we haue answered the substance of your Section Yet because you interpose many other vnnecessary points we must follow your wādrings lest els you may be thought to haue said somewhat to vs which is vnanswerable 2. After an vnprofitable ostentation of Erudition which yet required no deeper learning then to read some of our Catholique Interpreters about the place Deut. 17. you come in the end to grant that the High Priest in cases of moment had an absolutely infallible direction c. And will you giue greater priuiledge of infallibility to the Type then to the Thing signified to wit the true Church of Christ of which the Synagogue was but a figure You cite some Catholique Authours as affirming that by the Iudge is meant the Ciuill Magistrate and by the Priest not the High Priest alone Of which Catholique Authours I haue at the present only the Dowists as you are pleased to call them in their Marginall Note on the 2. Chro. 19. Vers 1. whom I find you to falsify For their words are only these A most plaien distinction of spirituall and temporall authority and offices not instituied by Iosaphat nor any other King but by God himselfe And vpon the words of Deut. 17. Vers 9. Thou shalt come to the Priest of the Leuiticall Stocke and to the Iudge that shall be at that time they say In the Councell of Priests one supreme Iudge which was the High Priest vers 12. And further they say There were not many Presidents at once but in Succession one after another Is this to affirme that by the Priest is meant not the high Priest alone Do they not say the quite contrary And as for your Obiectiōs against our Argument drawne from the Synagogue to proue the infallibility of the Church I haue answered them (m) 1. Part. Chap. 2. n. 23. heertofore 3. That Core Dathan and Abiron with all their Company descended aliue into the pit of Hell you say is rashly and (n) Pag. 29. vncharitably said by Charity Mistaken But you falsify his words which are The ground (o) Pag. 16. opened it selfe and swallowed them aliue with all their goods into the profound pit of Hell Are goods and company two words of one signification And yet in your second Edition you cite with all their company c. in a differēt letter as the words of your Aduersarie But suppose he had said as you alledge him with all their company c. what great crime had he committed The holy Scripture sayth of them and their Complices without limitation or distinction The Earth (p) Num. 16. ◠31.32.33 brake in sunder vnder their feete and opening her mouth deuoured them with their Tabernacles and all their substance and they went downe into Hell quicke couered with the ground and perished out of the midst of the multitude You see the Scripture speakes indefinitely and so doth Charity Mistaken without adding any Vniuersall particle as All Euery one or the like except when he sayth with all their Goods which are the very words of Scripture Nay since the Scripture sayth They went downe into Hell quicke and perished out of the midst of the multitude by what authority will you affirme that all perished out of the midst of the multitude but not all went downe into Hell quicke 4. Though it were granted that those wordes Math. 18.17 If thy Brother offend thee tell the Church are meant of priuate wrongs yet it is cleere that from thence is inferred à fortiori that all Christians are obliged to obey the Catholique Church in her decrees And no man is so ignorant as not to know that the holy Fathers do euery where apply those words against Schismatiques and Heretiques as appeareth by S. Augustine whome heertofore (p) 1. part cap. 5. num 7. I cited and S. Cyprian (q) Lib.
1. epist 3. Ibid. ep 6. and others And I pray you if one vtter some Heresy in presence of his brother doth he not in a very high degree offend his Brother and consequently is he not comprehended in those words of our Sauiour If thy Brother offend thee c. Now if the Church were fallible how could we be obliged vnder payne of being reckoned Pagans and Publicans to obey her Decrees and Declarations concerning matters of fayth which is a Vertue that necessarily inuolues infallibility But when did you euer heare any Catholique say what you impose vpon Charity Mistaken that absolute obedience is due vnto the Church no appeale being allowed no not (r) pag. 28. to Scriptures though expounded in a Catholike sense and consonantly to the iudgment of the most ancient and famous members of the Church With what face can you vtter such stuffe You know we belieue that the Church cannot oppose Scripture 5. As for those corruptions of the Text of S. Cyprian in his Booke de vnitate Ecclesiae which you charge Pamelius to haue committed in fauour of S. Peters Primacy it is but an old obiection borrowed of others and purposely answered by Pamelius in his notes vpon that Booke where for his iustification he cites diuers ancient Copies and one more then nine hundred yeares old And as for the phrase maine point it selfe that Christ built the Church vpon Peter it is expressely affirmed by S. Cyprian in many other places which I quote in the (s) De exhort Mart. c. 11. ep 55.69.73 which last is cited by S. Augustin de Bapt. lib. 3. c. 17. as he cites the like wordes out of epist 71. ad Quint. Margent whereby it manifestly appeareth what S. Cyprian belieued about the Authority of Saint Peter and how much his Booke de Vnitate Ecclesiae maketh for the Roman Church neyther can you in all S. Cyprians workes or in this place in particular shew any thing to the contrary as you are pleased to (t) Pag. 30. affirme To proue that our vnworthy fashion is to alter raze many records and Monuments of Antiquity you cite a moderne English Writer Sixtus Senensis But both of them are alledged after your fashion for the first speakes onely of Bookes writen in fauour of the Popes Power in temporall things wherein neuertheles we can in no wise allow of his saying nor is he in this point a competent witnes and the second directly falsifyed For you say he highly commends (u) Epist dedie ad Pium 5. Pope Pius the fifth for the care which he had to extinguish all dangerous Bookes and to purge the writings of all Catholique Authours especially of the Ancient Fathers from the silth and poyson of Heresy there you end the sentence But Sixtus Senensis hath faecibus haereticorum aetatis nostrae from the dregs of the Heretiques of our tymes vnderstanding nothing else but that the sayd holy Pope cause the false Annotations Glosses Marginall notes c. of Erasmus and moderne Heretiques to be blotted or taken out of the Bookes of the holy Fathers Is not this playne falsification And so much lesse excusable because it could not be done but wittingly and willingly for that in the Margent you cite the Latin when you come to those wordes especially of the ancient Fathers you breake off with an c. leauing out that which did directly ouerthrow the purpose for which you alledged those wordes For want of better matter you tell vs of an Edition of Isidorus Pelusiotes his Greeke Epistles approued because they contayned nothing contrary to the Catholique Roman Religion wherein what great harme is there If the Approbator had left out Roman would you haue made this obiection To vs Catholique and Roman are all one as heertofore I explicated But it seemes say you that they had not passed but vpon that Condition This is but a poore Consequence in Logicke For one effect may be produced by some cause yet in such manner as that the effect would follow though that cause were taken away accordingly you grant that the aforesayd clause of Approbation is left out in another Edition Neyther can you be ignorant that Catholiques do print and reprint the writings of ancient Authours although they contayne Heresies as the workes of Tertullian Origen c And therfore you are lesse excusable both for making this Obiection in generall and also for falsifying Sixtus Senensis in particular 6. The places alledged by you out of S. Augustin against the Donatists come far short of prouing that (u) pag. 32. Scripture alone is the Iudge or rather as you correct your selfe Rule of Cōtrouersies your bringing thē to that purpose is directly against S. Augustins words meaning as will appeare by what now I am about to say Two Questions were debated between the Catholiques Donatists the one concerning the Church whether or no she were confined to that corner of the world where the faction of Donatus did reside The other whether such as were baptized by Heretiques ought to be rebaptized We grant that S. Augustine in the former Question pressed the Donatists with manifest Scripture to proue the exeternall apparant Notes or Markes of the Church as Visibility Perpetuity Amplitude Vniuersality c. And no wonder that he appealed to Scripture For that very Questiō being whether the Catholiques or Donatists were the true Church to suppose the Catholiques to be the true Church and vpon that supposition to alledge their Authority against the Donatists had been but to beg the Question as if there were Controuersy whether some particular Booke were Canonical Scripture or no it were an idle thing to alledge that very writing in question to proue it selfe Canonicall and on the other side both the Catholikes and Donatists did acknowledge belieue the same Scriptures which as S. Augustine is wont to say speake more cleerely of the Church then of Christ himselfe and therfore he had good reason to try that Question concerning the Church by cleer not doubtfull Testimonies of holy Writ wheras the Donatists had recourse eyther to obscure Texts as that of the Canticles Shew me where thou feedest where thou liest in the mid day to proue that the Church was cōfined to Africa or els to humane Testimonies as Acts of Notaries or Scriueners to proue that the Catholiques had been Traditores that is had giuē vp the holy Bible to be burned Or that they had sacrificed to Idols Or had been cause of persecution against Christians and that either for these crimes or for communicating with such as had committed them the Church had perished from among Catholiques Or els they produced their owne bare affirmation or mock-Miracles false Councels of THEIR OWNE All which proofes being very partiall insufficient and impertinent S. Augustin had reason to say Let these fictions (w) De vnïe Eccles cap. 19. of lying men or fantasticall wonders of deceiptfull
to our Sauiour Christ highest adoration is exhibited as to God Or as Bellarmine (t) De Purg. lib. 1. cap. 9. sayth we distinguish Saints from Christ because we offer Sacrifice of Thankes-giuing for Saints but we do not offer Sacrifice for Christ but to him together with the Father and the holy Ghost You likewise falsify S. Epiphanius while you say out of him That the liuing haue hope for the deceased as for those which be from home in another Countrey and that at length they shall attaine the state which is more perfect Which last words are not in S. Epiphanius who neuer taught that we offer Prayers for Saints that they may attaine a state which is more perfect And when S. Epiphanius sayth that those who pray for their Brethren haue hope of them as of those who are in another Countrey you leaue out Praying and only put in Hope And that you may be assured how contrary S. Epiphanius is to you not only in the doctrine of Prayer for the dead but also in the ground and reason for which he belâ—â—ues it namely Tradition marke his wordes The Church sayth he in the same place doth necessarily practise this by Tradition receiued from our Ancestors And who can breake the Ordination of his Mother and the Law of his Father as Salomoâ— sayth Heare O Sonne the words of thy Father and retect not the Ordination of thy Mother Shewing by this that God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost haue taught both by writing and without writing behold diuine Traditions and our Mother the Church hath also in herselfe Ordinances inuiolable which cannot be broken behold Ecclesiasticall Traditions Since therfore there be Ordinances set downe in the Church and that all be right and admirable this Seducer Aërius remaines confuted And together with him all those that follow his heresy And let vs yet heare S. Epiphanius speaking a little before of another point thus But who knowes most of these thinges Whether this deluded fellow Aërius who is yet aliuâ—â— c. or those who before vs haue yielded Testimony and haue had the Tradition of the Church which also was deliuered from their Fore-Fathers as they likewise learned of those who were before them in which manner the Church doth still conserue the true Fayth receiued from their Fore-Fathers and also Traditions Consider now with what reason you alleaged S. Epiphanius as one who sayth that all Heresy is to be confuted by euidence of Scripture wheras he doth cleerly auouch Tradition in generall and doth in particular consute the Heresy of Aerius without alleaging so much as one Text of Scripture 13. And though S. Epiphanius alone might suffice both to assure vs what was the Heresy of Aërius in whose time he liued and also to witnes for all the rest of the Greeke Fathers yea for the whole Church because he auouched Prayer for the dead to come from the TraditioÌ„ of Gods Church yet I will add some more of the Greeke Church as S. Dionysius Areopagita who saith Then the Venerable (u) Eccles Hierarch cap. 1. Bishop doth pray ouer the dead party that the diuine Goodnes would pardon all his sinnes committed by humane frailty and transferre him to light and the Countrey of the liuing I wonder then how in your Text your could tel vs that (w) Pag. 37. conformably to your Opinion The ancient Church in her Liturgy remembred all those that slept in hope of the ResurrectioÌ„ of euerlasting lyfe and particularly the Patriarchs Prophets Apostles Martyrs c. beseeching God to giue theÌ„ rest and to bring them you put in a parenthesis at the ResurrectioÌ„ to the place where the light of his countenance should shine vpon them for euermore And in your Margent you cite S. Dionysius as fauouring you who neuertheles in the very Chapter which you cite for your Opinion is directly agaynst you in the words euen now alledged The like fincerity you shew in the very same Margent in citing S. Cyril who doth cleerly affirme that in the Sacrifice we remeÌ„ber some that they would pray for vs and others that they may be relieued by our Prayers and Sacrifices in these words When we offer this Sacrifice (x) Catech. 5. we make meÌ„tion of those who are deceased of Patriarchs c. that God would receyue our prayers by their intercession And we pray for al who are deceased belieuing that it is a most great help to those for whom the obsecratioÌ„ of that holy and dreadfull Sacrifice is offered S. Gregory Nyssen saith He cannot after his departure (y) In Orat. pro mortuis from the body be made partaker of the Diuinity vnles the purging fire shall cleanse the staynes of his soule 14. Among the Latin Fathers Protestants pretend to esteeme none more then S. Augustine and yet none can speake more plainely against them in this point then he doth who besids that he rankes AeÌ„rius among the Heretiques in another place he sayth Purge me (z) In Psal 37. in this lyfe in such sort as that I may not need the correcting or amending fire And afterward It is sayd he shall be saued as if it were by fire and because it is sayd he shall be saued that fire growes to be contemned But so it is though he shall be saued yet the paine of that fire is more grieuous then whatsoeuer a man can suffer in this life And elsw where Some suffer (a) De ciuit lib. 21. c. 13. temporall punishments only in this life others after death others both now and then Of which place Fulke is enforced to say Augustine concludes very cleerly (b) Consut of Purg. pag. 110. that some suffer Temporall paines after this life this may not be denied And in another place S. Augustine sayth We ought not (c) De verbis Apost serm 34. to doubt but that the dead are holpen by the Prayers of the holy Church and by the holesome Sacrifice and by Ailrnes giuen for their soules that our Lord would avale with them more mercifully then their sinnes haue deserued For the whole Church obserues this as deliuered from our Fathers Neither can you auoide these Authorities by flying to the Requests of Gods mercy that they may haue their (d) Pag. 39. serfect Consummation in body and soule in the kingdome of God at the last Iudgment as you speake For besides that all they who depart this life in Gods fauour are most assured of a perfect Consummation independantly of our Almes-deeds Prayers c. S. Augustine as you haue heard speakes of a Purging fire of Temporall Punlishments after this life c. And doth elsewhere write as if he had purposely intended to preuent this your Euasion saying At the Altar (e) Tract 84. in Joan. we do not remember Martyrs as we do other deceased who rest in peace by praying for them but rather that they would pray for vs. Which difference between Martyrs and other
expressely condemne as erroneous or in the next degree to Heresy But because it were a vanity to muster a number of Writers in a question impertinent to our present designe which is only against Heresy or Schisme both which exclude inuincible ignorance I hold it best to passe them ouer in silence 30. Your saying that A man may be a true visible membër (t) Pag. 47. of the holy Catholique Church who is not actually otherwise then in vow a member of any true visible Church destroyes it selfe For in the same manner and degree neyther more nor lesse a man is a visible member in act or in desire of the visible Church as he is a mēber of the true Catholique Church which is visible And Bellarmine whome you cite for your selfe is directly agaynst you For he teacheth that a man may (u) de Eccles milit cap. 6. Respondeo be in the Church in desire which is sufficient for Saluation when he is inuoluntarily hindred from being actually of the Church and yet not in the Church by externall Comunion which properly maketh him to be of the visible Church which is directly to deny what you affirmed I might reflect what a pretty connection you make in saying who is not actually otherwise then in vow c. you might as well haue sayd who is not actually otherwise then not in act c. But such small matters as these I willingly dissemble The poore man in the Ghospell was cast out of the Synagogue by notorious iniustice and therefore still remayned a member of the Iewish Church not only in desire but also in act You say Athanasius stood single in defense of diuine Truth all his Brethren the other Patriarchs not he of Rome excepted hauing subscribed to Arianisme and cast him out of their Communion And you referre vs to Baronius cited in your Margent to what purpose I know not except to display your owne bad proceeding For Baronius in the place by you alledged (w) Anno 357. num 44. apud Spond doth not incidently or only by the way but industriously and of set purpose cleere Pope Libertu◠from hauing euer subscribed to Arianisme He subscribed indeed to the condemnation of S. Athanasius which was not for matter of faith but of fact to wit for certayne crimes obiected agaynst him as Bellarmine (x) De Rom. Port lib. 4. cap. 9. affirmeth which being false S. Athanasius did not therefore cease to be a member of the Catholike Church If the errours of Tertullian were in themselues so smal as you would make them it may serue for an example that not so much the matter as the manner and obstinacy is that which makes an Heretique which ouerthrowes your distinction of points fundamentall c. 31. The proofes which you bring from the Africans and others that Communion with the Roman Church was not alwayes held necessary to Saluation haue been a thousand tymes answered by Catholique Writers and they are such as you could not haue chosen any more disaduantagious to your cause Heertofore I shewed that Communion with the Roman Church was by Antiquity iudged to be the marke of a true Belieuer And indeed seing you speake of those times wherin Rome stood in her purity as you say how could any be diuided from her fayth and yet belieue aright Do not your selfe say Whosoeuer professeth himselfe to forsake (y) Pag. 76. the Communion of any one member of the Body of Christ must confesse himselfe consequently to forsake the whole How then could any diuide themselues from the Romane Church while she was in her purity Euen S. Cyprian whose example you alleage fayth They (z) Ad Cornel ep 33. presume to saile to the Roman Church which is the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Chaire from whence Priestly Vnity hath sprung Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose fayth was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse Optatus Mileuitanus also an African saith At Rome hath been constituted to Peter (a) 〈◊〉 Parm. lib. 2. the Episcopall Chaire that in this only Chaire the Vnity of all might be preserued And S. Augustine like wise an African affirmeth that Cacilianus might despise (b) Epist 62 the conspiring multitude of his enemies that is of seauenty Bishops of Africa assembled in Numidia because he saw himselfe vnited by letters Communicatory with the Roman Church in which the Principality of the Sea Apostolique had alwayes flourished And after Pelagius had been iudged in the East by the Bishops of Palestine and Celestius his Disciple had been excommunicated for the same cause in Asrica by the African Bishops the Mileuitan Councell referred them finally to the Pope saying We hope by the (c) Ep. Conc. Mileu ad Innocent inter epist. Aug. epist 92 mercy of our Lord Iesus-Christ who vouchsafe to gouerne thee consulting with him and to heare thee praying to him that those who hold these Doctrines so peruerse and pernicious will more easily yield to the authority of thy Holynes drawne out of the holy Scriptures Behold the Popes prerogatiue drawne out of the holy Scriptures And it is very strang that you will alleage the Authority of S. Cyprian and other Bishops of Africa against Pope Stephen who opposed himselfe to them in the Question of Rebaptization wherin they agreed with the Heresy of the Donatists which was condemned not only by the Pope but by the whole Church yea by those very Bishops who once adhered to S. Cyprian as S. Hierome witnesseth saying Finally they who had been (d) Coutra Luçifer of the same opinion set forth a new decree saying What shall we do So hath it been deliuered to them by their Ancestors and ours And Vincentius Lyrinensis speaking of Stephen his opposing S. Cyprian sayth Then (e) In Com. part 1. the blessed Stephen resisted together with but yet before his Collegues iudging it as I conceiue to be a thing worthy of him to excell them as much in Fayth as he did in the authority of his place 32. Neither are you more fortunate in the example of Pope Victor then in the other of Stephen For although Eusebius whom S. Hierome (f) Contra Ruff. Apol. 1. stiles the Ensigne-bearer of the Arian Sect and who was a profest Enemy of the Roman Church doth relate that S. Irenaeus (g) Hist. Eccles lib. 5. c. 24. reprehended Victor for hauing excommunicated the Churches of Asia for the question about keeping Easter yet euen he dare not say that Irenaeus blamed the Pope for want of Power but for misapplying it which supposeth a Power to do it if the cause had been sufficient And the successe shewed that euen in the vse of his Power Pope Victor was in the right For after his death the Councels of Nice Constantinople and Ephesus which you receiue as lawfull Generall Councels excommunicated those who held the same Custome with the Prouinces which
you can possibly be saued But we haue no such dependance vpon you Nay the same Confession which acquits vs condemnes your selues For while you confesse a Reformatiō of the Old Church and neyther doe nor can specify any Visible Church which in your opinion needed no Reformation you must affirme that the Church which you intended to reforme was indeed the Visible Catholique Church if so then you cannot deny but that you departed from the Catholique Church are guilty of Schisme yea and of Heresy For if the Catholique Church was infected with erroneous doctrine which needed Reformation it followes that the errours were Vniuersall and that the Reformation conming after those errours must want Vniuersality of Place and Tyme and therefore be branded with the marke of Heresy For in true Diuinity a new and no Church are all one Moreouer the very Nature Essence of the Church requiring true fayth it is impossible to alter any lest point of fayth without changing the substance of the Church and Religion and therfore to reforme the Church in matters of faith is as if you should reforme a man by depriuing him of a reasonable Soule whereby he is a man And a Reformed Catholique are termes no lesse repugnant then a reasonable vnreasonable creature or a destroied existing thing Wherfore to say the Reformation did not change the substance of Religion but only cleansed it from corrupt and impure qualities are meer wordes to deceaue simple soules And it is a lamentable case that you can neuer be brought from such ridiculous similitudes as heere you bring of Naaman who was stil the same man before and after he was cured of his leprosy Of a field ouergrowne with weeds thistles c. and your Brethren are full of twenty such childish pretended illustrations whereas euery body knowes that leprosy is accidental to a man and weeds to a field but Fayth is essentiall to the Church and that Affirmation or Negation of any one reuealed Truth whatsoeuer are differences no lesse essentiall in fayth then reasonable and vnreasonable in liuing Creatures And Fayth it selfe being an accident and quality consisting in Affirmation or Negation to cleanse it from the corrupt and impure quality of affirming or denying is to cleanse it from its own Nature and Essence which is not to reforme but to destroy it Lastly from this your forced Confession not to erect a new Church but to purge the Old we must inferre that the Roman Church which you sought to purge was the Old Church and the Catholike Church of Christ For if you found any other Old visible Catholike Church which needed no Reformation then you neyther intended to erect a new Church nor to purge the Old 2. You say the things which Protestants (b) Pag. 61. belieue on their part and wherin they iudge the life and substance of Religion to be comprized are most if not all of them so euidently and indisputably true that their Aduersaries themselues do auow and receiue them as well as they If this be true and that the said Verities make vp the fayth of Protestants as you speake then what needed you a Reformation to teach men the fayth of Protestants which they belieued before Protestants appeared Or how can you be excused from Schisme who diuided your selues from that visible Church which belieued those verities which make vp your fayth You say If all other Christians could be coutent (c) pag. 61.62 to keepe within these generall bounds the wofull Schismes and ruptures of Christendome might be more easily healed O words most powerfull to condemne your selues who were not content to keep within those generall bounds which you confesse we belieued but would attempt new Reformations although with so wofull Schismes and Ruptures of Christendome as you hold worthy to be lamented with teares of bloud If our errors were not fundamentall your Reformation could not be necessary to saluation as when the wound or disease is knowne not to be deadly the cure cannot be necessary to the conseruation of life 3. The Reformation which zealous Catholiques did desire and with whose words you vainely load your Margent were not in fayth but manners For which if it be lawfull to forsake a Church no Church shall remaine vnforsaken But of this I haue spoken in the First Part. Luther was iustly cut of by Excommunication as a pernicious member which yet was not done till the Pope had vsed all meanes to reclaime him Prouincial or Nationall Synods may seeke to reforme abuses in manners and endeauour that the fayth already established be conserued but if they go about to reforme the Catholique Church in any one point they deserue the name of Conuenticles and not of Councels 4. What meane you when you say that you left the (e) pag. 67. Church of Rome in nothing she holds of Christ or of Apostolique Tradition Do you admit Traditions Are they fallible or infallible For if they be infallible then may they be part of the Rule of fayth If fallible they are not Apostolique 5. You goe then about to proue that our doctrines are First doubtfull and perplexed opinions 2. Doctrines vnnecessary and forraine to the fayth and 3. Nouelties vnknowne to Antiquity 6. You pretend they are doubtfull and say The Roman Doctours doe not fully and absolutly agree in any one point among themselues but only in such points wherin they agree with vs. If a manifest vntruth be a good proofe your Argument conuinceth If you thinke that disagreement in matters not defined by the Church argues difference in matters of fayth you shew small reading in our Deuines who euen in all those Articles wherein you agree with vs haue many different and contrary Opinions concerning points not defined as about some speculatiue questions concerning the Deity the Blessed Trinity Incarnation yea there are more disputes about those high Mysteries wherin you agree with vs then in others wherin we disagree and yet you grant that such disputes do not argue those maine points to be doubtfull And so you must answere your owne instance by which you might as well proue that Philosophers do not agree whether there be such things as Time Motion Quantity Heauens Elements c. because in many particulars concerning those things they cannot agree 7. In the second place you affirme our doctrines to be vnnecessary and superfluous because a very small measure of explicite knowledge is of absolute necessity But this is very cleerly nothing at all to the purpose For our Question is not what euery one is obliged explicitely to belieue but whether euery one be not obliged not to disbelieue or deny any one point sufficiently propounded by the Church as a diuine Truth Neither do we treate of ignorance of some points but of plaine opposition and contradiction both between you and vs and also among your selues You cite Bellarmine saying The Apostles neuer vsed (g) De verb. Dei lib. 4. cap. 11. to preach openly
be saued whether their differeÌ„ces be great or smal 20. I haue told you already that the Author of the Moderate Examination c. is no Catholique That other Treatise entituled Syllabus aliquot Synodorum c. I haue not seen but if the Author pretend as you say that both Hugenots and Catholiques may be saued he can be no Catholique 21. You would faine auoide the note of Heretiques which is to be named by Moderne names deriued for the most part from their first Sect-Maisters You renounce the names of Lutherans Zwinglians or Caluinists and to that purpose you make halfe a Sermon But words will not serue your turne For they are no iniurious Nick-names as you say but names imposed by meere necessity to distinguish you from those from whom you really differ and to expresse the variety of your late Reformation If we speake of Christians or Catholiques without some addition no man will dreame of you but will thinke of vs who had that Name before Luther appeared and therefore it cannot expresse the latter Reformation If you wil be called the Reformed Church still the doubt remaynes whether you meane those who follow Luther or Caluin or Zwinglius c. Neyther will the Reformed Church if she be in her wits make her selfe lyable to all errors of Lutherans Caluinists Anabaptists Puritans c. And in this your prime man D. Field is more ingenious while he acknowledgeth a necessity of the name of Lutherans in these words Neyther was it possible (q) Of the Church lib. 2. cap. 9. p. 59. that so great an alteration should be effected and not carry some remembrance of them by whome it was procured And Whitaker sayth For distinctions sake we are inforced to vse the (r) In his answer to Reynolds Preface pag. 44. name of Protestants And Grauerus giueth a reason why those of the same Sect with him be called Lutherans saying The only reason (s) In his Absurda AbsurdoruÌ„ c. in Praefat. of it is that we may be distinguished froÌ„ Caluinists Papists from whom we cannot be distinguished by the generall name eyther of ChristiaÌ„s or of Orthed oxe or of Catholiques And Hospinianus likewise sayth I abhorre the Schismaticall names (t) In his Prologomena of Lutherans Zwinglians and Caluinist marke the Shismaticall names yet for distinction sake I will vse these names in this History The vulgar Obiection which you bring that amongst vs also there are Franciscans DominicaÌ„s Scotistes Loyalists c. is pertinent only to coÌ„uince you of manifest Nouelty For those Names are not imposed to signify difference in fayth as the Names of Lutherans Caluinists are but eyther diuers Institutes of Religion as Dominicans Franciscans c. or els diuersity of opinions concerning some points not defined by the Church as Thomists Scotists c. And for as much as these Names be argumeÌ„ts of new and particular Institutes and are deriued from particular men they likewise proue that the names of Lutherans Caluinists c. being giuen vpoÌ„ diuersity in fayth must argue a new beginning a new Sect and Sect-Maisters concerning Fayth D. Field is full to our purpose saying We must obserue that they who professe the fayth of Christ (u) Vbi sup pag. 58. haue been somtymes in these latter ages of the Church called after the speciall names of such men as were the Authours Beginners and Deuisers of such courses of Monasticall Profession as they made choyce to follow as Benedictins and such like And in his other words following he answers your obiection of the Scotists and Thomists affirming their differences to haue been in the Controuersies of Religion not yet determined by consent of the Vniuersall Church What can be more cleere that our differences concerne not matters of Fayth and that the names which you mention of FraÌ„ciscans Dominicans c. signify a Meanes of that for which they are imposed and which they are appointed to signify and therfore proue that the names of Lutherans c. must signify a Nouclty in fayth 22. But you say that the iarres and diuisions betweene (w) pag. 87. the Lntherans and Caluinists doe little concerne the Church of England which followeth none but Christ. And doe not Lutherans and Caluinists pretend to follow Christ as well as you Who shall be Iudge among you But you may easily be well assured that as long as you follow him by contrary wayes you can neuer come where he is And yet indeed doe these â—arres little concerne the Church of England Haue you in your Church none of those who are commonly called Lutherans Zwinglians Caluinists Puritans c. Doth it not behooue you to consider whether your Congregation can be One true Church of Christ while you are in Communion with so many disagreeing Sects Doth it little concerne you whether your first Reformers Lutherans Caluinists Zwinglians Puritanes be Heretiques or no How can it be but that the diuisions of Lutherans and Caluinists must concerne the Church of England For your Church cannot agree with them all if you side with one part you must iarre with the other Or if you agree with none of them you disagree with all so make a greater diuision 23. And therfore being really distrustfull of this Answere you come at length to your maine refuge namely that their dissentions (x) Pag. 87. are neither many nor so materiall as to shake or touch the foundation But till you can once tell vs what points will shake the foundation you cannot be sure whether their dissentions be not such You say their (y) Pag. 90. difference about Consubstantiation and Vbiquity is not fundamentall because both agree that Christ is really and truly exhibited to ech faithfull Communicant and that in his whole Person he is euery where In this manner you may reconcile all heresies and say the Arians or Nestorians belieued Christ to be truly God that is by reall and true affection of Charity as many among you say Christ is really in the Sacrament that is by a reall figure or by a reall act of fayth as the Nestorians said of a reall act of Charity That euen according to them who deny the Trinity there is truly a Father Sonne and holy Ghost as in God there is truly Power Vnderstanding and Will but whether those Persons be really distinct or no that is as you say of Consubstantiation and Vbiquity a nicecity inscrutable to the wit of man and so a man may goe discoursing of all other Heresies which haue been condemned by the Church Is there not a maine difference of receiuing our Sauiours body in reall substance and in figure alone Or betwixt the immensity of our Sauiours Deity and the Vbiquity of his Humanity which destroies the Mysteries of his Natiuity Ascension c for who can ascend to the place where he is already You specify only the said difference betwixt Lutherans and Caluinists whereas you know there are many more
we grant that it is not alwayes easy to determine in particuler occasions whether this or that doctrine be such Because it may be doubtfull whether it be against any Scripture or diuine Tradition or Definition of the Church and much more whether the person be an Heretique which requireth certaine conditions as Capacity Pertinacy sufficient Proposition c. which are not alwayes so easily explicated and discerned and for these respects S. Augustine in the place cited (b) Pag. 102. by you had good reason to say That it is hard to know what makes an Heretique But it is strange that you should hold it to be so hard a matter to giue a generall definition of Heresy or Heretique since in this very Section you dispatch it quickly saying He is iustly (c) Pag. 98. esteemed an Heretique who yields not to Scripture sufficiently propounded Or as you say else where It is fundamentall (d) Pag. 250. to a Christians Fayth and necessary for his saluation that he belieue all reuealed Truths of God wherof he may be conuinced that they are from God Nay if you will speake with coherence to your owne grounds it is easy for you to define in all particular cases what is damnable Heresy for you I say who measure all Heresy by opposition to Scripture and further affirme that Scripture is cleere in all fundamentall points For by this meanes it will be easy for you to discerne what error opposeth those fundamental Truths which are cleerly contained in Scripture 4. In your discourse concerning the Controuersy between Pope Stephen and S. Cyprian you shew a great deale of passion against the Roman Church which you impugne out of an Epistle of Firmilianus who at that time was a party against the Pope and who in particuler did afterward recant togeather with the other Bishops who once ioyned with S. Cyprian as we haue already shewed out of S. Hierome may be also seen in an Epistle of Dionysius Alexandrinus apud Eusch hist. l. 6. c. 7. wherin Firmilianus in particular is named therfore you are inexcusable who say they persisted in their opinion wheras the proceeding of S. Stephen was necessary to preuent a pernicious error of rebaptizing of such as had been baptized by Heretiques which afterward was condemned by the whole Church And as for S. Cyprians mild proceeding which you so much commend out of your ill will to S. Stephen because he was Pope S. Augustine saith The things which (e) De Bapt. cont Donat. lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian in anger hath spread against Stephen I will not suffer to passe vnder my pen. Wherfore you could not haue picked out an example more in fauour of Popes then this And you must giue vs leaue not to credit what you say That both Stephen and Cyprian erred in some sense For Stephen only affirmed that Baptisme was not inualide precisely because it is giuen by Heretiques as S. Cyprian affirmed it to be but yet if the Heretiques erred either in the Matter or Forme of Baptisme Stephen neuer affirmed such Baptisme to be valid which had been more then he granted euen to the Baptisme of Catholiques 5. Your Argument to proue that (f) Pag. 112. concerning our greater safety we dispute against you as the Donatists did against Catholiques I haue answered (g) Cap. 7. num 7. in the First Part. You would make men belieue that we are like the Donatists who washed Church wall and vestments of Catholiques broke their Chalices scraped their Altars c. But I pray you consider whether Chalices Vestments Palls or Corporals and Altars do expresse the Protestant Church of England Scotland Geneua Holland c. or the Church of Rome 6. You spend diuers pages in propounding Arguments for the opinion of M. Hooker and M. Morton That whersoeuer a company of men (h) Pag. 113. doe iointly professe the substance of Christian Religion which is fayth in Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and Sauiour of the world with submission to his doctrine in mynd and will there is a Church wherein Saluation may be had notwithstanding any corruption in ludgment or practise yea although it be of that nature that it seeme to fight with the very foundation and so haynous as that in respect thereof the people stayned with this corruption are worthy to be abhorred of all men and vnworthy to be called the Church of God But because these and such monstruous Assertions proceed from other errours which I haue already both cleerly and at large confuted to wit the Fallibility of the Church the Distinction of points fundamental and not fundamentall c. I referre you to those places and heere onely obserue into what precipices they fall who deny the vniuersall Infallibility of the Church And it is strange that you your selfe did not see the manifest contradictions inuolued in this wicked doctrine For how can it be a Church wherein Saluation may be had and yet be vnworthy to be called the Church of God How can that man haue fayth in Iesus Christ with submission to his doctrine in mind and will who is supposed to ioyne with his beliefe in Iesus Christ other errors sufficiently propounded to be repugnant against Gods word or Reuelation Can submission in mind or will or obseruation of his Commandments stand with actuall voluntary error against his word Is it not a prime Commandment to belieue Gods word Do not your selfe affirme that it is Infidelity to deny whatsoeuer is reuealed in Scripture How then can a Church be said to haue meanes for saluation and life wherin is wanting Fayth the first ground of saluation The Fathers sometimes called the Donatists Brethren by reason of their true Baptisme not for their possibility to be saued according as S. Augustine said to them The Sacraments of Christ (i) Epist 48. do not make thee an Heretique but thy wicked disagreement And Optatus sayth You cannot (k) Lib. 4◠but be our brethren whom the same Mother the Church hath begotten in the same bowels of Sacraments whom God our Father hath in the same manner receiued as adopted Children namely on his behalfe and for as much as concernes the vertue of Baptisme The Conclusion of your discourse may well beseeme the doctrine for which you bring it A learned man (l) Pag. 122. anciently was made a Bishop of the Catholique Church although he did professedly doubt of the last Resurrection of our bodies You might haue added that he would not belieue that the world should euer haue an end and further absolutely refused to be baptized And that he would not as the History recoūteth liue a single life as other Priests but that he would liue with a wife For Synesius who is the man you meane publiquely protested all these things and you are wise inough to take only what might seeme to serue your turne as this concerning the single liues of Priests did not because it sheweth that in those
the same points the Scripture is also sufficient and cleere Which cuidently sheweth that you cannot deny but that the Infallibility of the Church may well stand with the sufficiency of Scripture consequently to oppose either the Scripture or Church is sufficient to make one an Heretique and this is sufficient for our purpose Yea since you cannot deny but that it is Heresy to oppose the Scripture and that you also grant that the Scripture affirmes the Church to be infallible in fundamentall points it followes that euen according to you euery one who opposeth the Church in such points is an Heretique euen because he opposeth the Church although the further reason heerof be because he opposeth the Scripture which recommends the Church So that all which you haue said about the sufficiency of Scripture alone is in diuers respects nothing to the purpose 5. You affirme that (d) Pag. 136 Eckius Pighius Hosius Turrianus Costerus do euery where in their writings speake wickedly and contumeliously of the holy Scriptures And because this is a common slander of Protestants against Catholique Writers I do heere challenge you to produce but one I say but one only place either out of any one of these whome you name or any other Catholique Doctor who speakes wickedly or contumeliously against holy Scriptures But be sure you do not confound speaking against Scripture it selfe with speaking against the abuse therof or against the letter of Scripture wrested to some hereticall sense against which our Authors speake and cannot speake too much And S. Hierome with other Father do the same 6. You proceed and say The Testimony (e) Pag. 139. of the present Church workes very powerfully probably first vpon Infidels to winne them to a Reuerend opinion of Fayth and Scriptures c. Secondly vpon Nouices weaklings and doubters in the fayth to instruct confirme them till they may acquaint themselues with and vnderstand the. Scriptures which the Church deliuers as the word of God Thirdly vpon all within the Church to prepare induce and perswade the Mind as an outward meanes to imbrace the fayth to read and belieue the Scriptures But the fayth of a Christian findes not in all this any sure ground wheron finally to rest or settle it selfe Because diuine Fayth requires a Testimony absolutely diuine and yet our Aduersaries yield that the Testimony of the present Church is not absolutely diuine to which purpose you cite in your Margent some of our Authors and therfore it cannot rely vpon the Church 7. This your discourse is neither pertinent nor true For the Question is not as I haue often told you whether or no our fayth be resolued into the Authority of the Church but whether we may not truly infer that whosoeuer resisteth the Church in those points which she doth infallibly propose as reuealed by God which infallibility you yield to her for all fundamentall points be not an Heretique because at lest by resisting the Church he consequently comes to oppose the Testimony or Reuclation of God which is the formall obiect of Fayth Besides if the Testimony of the Church worke but probably vpon Infidels and Nouices who by you are taught to belieue that she may erre vnles you will circumuent them by dissembling her fallibility they will haue wit inough to tell themselues that since she may erre and speakes but probably she cannot worke so powerfully vpon them but that they may still doubt whether she do not actually erre and deceiue them And how can the Church worke vpon all within her to prepare induce and perswade the mind to imbrace the fayth to read and belieue Scriptures Are they within the Church before they haue imbraced the Fayth Or must they want fayth till they read and belieue the Scriptures Or rather since according to your Principles all fayth depends on Scripture must they not belieue the Scripture before they imbrace the fayth and consequently before they be in the Church How then doth the Church prepare induce and perswade them that are within her to imbrace the fayth and to read and belieue the Scriptures If our fayth must rest and settle only vpon the Written Word of God how doth S. Irenaeus (f) Lib. 3. cap. 4. affirme that many Nations haue been conuerted to Christ without Scriptures Were they conuerted only to an humane fayth 8. And wheras you say that the Authority of the Church is not absolutely diuine and therfore cannot be the last and formall Obiect of fayth it is but an Equiuocation and you infer that which we do not deny Coninck whom you cite in your Margent and translated by halues answeres your Obiection in the very wordes which you alleage Although sayth he the Church (g) Disp 9. dub 5. conel 2. be directed by the infallible assistance of the holy Ghost and in that sense her Testimony do in some sort rely vpon the diuine Authority and receiue from it strength all which words you do not translate yet it is not truly or properly the Testimony or word and reuelation of God but properly it is a humane Testimony You see then that the Testimony of the Church in some sense is Diuine that is infallibly directed by the holy Ghost which is inough for our purpose although it be not Diuine in another sense that is her words are not the immediate voyce of God as Scriptures are because she doth not propose any new Reuelations made immediately to her but only infallibly declares what Reuelations haue beene made to Prophets Apostles c. Your selfe affirme that the Church is infallible in Fundamentall points and consequently her Testimony is not meerly humane and fallible and yet it is not absolutely diuine and so you must answere your owne Argument and you must grant that the Church being infallible in some points may be to vs a ground sufficient for our infallible assent or beliefe for such Articles And if you will tell vs that fayth must be resolued into some Authority which is absolutely Diuine as Diuine signifies that which is distinct from all things created you will find your selfe gone too far For Scripture it selfe being a thing created and not a God is not Deuine in that sense And the Apostles who receiued immediate Reuelations from God when afterwards they did preach and declare them to others those Declarations which supposed the Reuelations already made were not in the opinion of many Deuines the testimony or word of God but of men infallibly assisted by God And yet I hope you will not hence inferre that it had not been Heresy to oppose the Declarations of the Apostles although they did not preach new Reuelations but only declare and propound such as had been already made to them 9. Your wordes which are indeed but words That Scripture (h) Pag. 141. is of diuine Authority the Belieuer sees by that glorious beam of diuine light which shines in Scripture I confuted heeretofore And what greater
but in some sort the word of God that is vttered by the assistance and direction of the holy Ghost nay I say that the Heretiques are those who indeed leane on a rotten staffe And then he comes to the words which you cited For we must know that a Proposition of Fayth is concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in Scripture is true God hath reuealed this in Scripture ergo it is true Of the premisses in this Syllogisme the first is most certaine among all the second is most firme or certaine among Catholiques for it relies on the Testimony of the Church Councell or Pope heere you breake off but Bellarmine ads of which we haue in holy Scripture manifest promises that they cannot erre Act. 15. It hath seemed to the Holy Ghost to vs And Luke 22. I haue prayed for thee that thy fayth may not faile But amongst Heretiques it doth rely only vpon coniectures or the Iudgement of ones own spirit which for the most part seemeth good and is ill and since the Conclusion followes the weaker part it necessarily followes that the whole fayth of Heretiques is but coniecturall and vncertayne Thus farre Bellarmine And now wherein I pray you consists his contradicting both himselfe and his fellowes Perhaps you meane because heere he teacheth that euery Proposition of fayth must be reuealed in Scripture and therefore contradicts his other doctrine that besids Scripture there are vnwritten Traditions But the vanity of this obiection will by and by appeare among your other corruptions which now I set down First you see Bellarmines speakes not of fayth in generall but only of matters of fayth contayned in Scripture his whole question being about the Interpretation thereof that is Whether we are to rely on the priuate spirit or humane industry of conferring places c. or els vpon the Church And therefore Secondly he sayth not as you cite him in a different letter by way of an vniuersal negation that a Proposition is not de fide or not belonging to fayth vnles it be concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scripture is true but this or that God hath reuealed in Scripture c. from whence it would follow that nothing at all could be belieued which is not contained in Scripture but he onely sayth that a Proposition of fayth is cōcluded in this Syllogisme which includes no vniuersall negation but is meant onely of those Propositions of fayth which depend on the interpretation of Scripture which was the subiect of his discourse And therefore I wonder why you should say in generall this reason supposes that matters of fayth must be reuealed in Scripture For to teach that some matters of faith are in Scripture doth not suppose that all matters of fayth must be contayned in Scripture and yet all the contradiction that heere you find in Bellarmine must be this Such Propositions of fayth as are contayned in Scripture are concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scripture c. Ergo all Propositions of fayth must be concluded in this Syllogisme Ergo there are no vnwritten Traditions A goodly contradiction Thirdly where did Bellarmine euer teach that the Proposall of the Church can make any vnwritten Verity to become matter of fayth as you speake The Church doth not make Verities to be matter of fayth but only declares them to be such Fourthly you leaue out the words which cleerly explicate in what sense the Testimony of the Church may be sayd to be humane or diuine by which your Argument to proue that the declaration of the Church cannot be a sufficient ground of fayth had been answered and your fallacy discouered Fifihly Bellarmine neuer affirmed as you say he did that the strength and truth of the Minor in the sayd Syllogisme depends on the Testimony of the Church but only that it is most certaine among Catholiques by the Testimony of the Church because as I haue often said the Church cannot make any one Article to be true but only by her declaration can make it certaine to all Catholiques as Bellarmine said Sixtly you leaue out Bellarmines words wherby he proues the infallibility of Church and Pope out of Scripture and accordingly in the Scauenth place that which he expresly sayth of the vncertaine coniecturall ground of Heretiques which can produce only a coniecturall and vncertaine Fayth because the Conclusion followes the weaker part you make him apply to the Testimony of the Church as if it were vncertaine which contrarily in the words by you omitted he proues to be most certaine infallible and therfore the Conclusion which relies vpon a Proposition deliuered by her is not subiect to error Eighthly you returne to the slaunder that if Bellarmines doctrine be true there is no truth in the Scriptures or in our Religion without the attestation of the Church as if Bellarmine had taught that the truth of Scripture and of all Christian Religion depends on the attestation of the Church which could not in you proceed from ignorance but from a purpose to deceiue your Reader For Bellarmine in that very place which you cite declares himselfe so fully and cleerly that you cannot be excused from wilfull slaunder I will put downe the place at large that heerafter you and your Brethren may either cease to make the same Obiection or els endeauour to confute the Cardinalls answere Bellarmine then makes this obiection against himselfe If the Pope iudge of Scriptures it followes that the Pope or Councell is aboue the Scripture and if the meaning of Scripture without the Pope or Councell be not authenticall it followes that the word of God takes his force and strength from the word of men And then he giues this Answere I answere that this Argument of which Heretiques make greatest account consists in a meere Equiuocation For it may be vnderstood two manner of wayes that the Church doth iudge of Scriptures the one That she should iudge whether that which the Scripture teaches be true or false The other That putting for a most certaine ground that the words of Scripture are most true she should iudge what is the true interpretation of them Now if the Church did iudge according to the former way she should indeed be aboue the Scripture but this we do not say though we be calumniated by the Heretiques as if we did who euery where cry out that we put the Scripture vnder the Popes Feet But that the Church or Pope doth iudge of Scriptures in the latter sense which we affirme is not to say that the Church is aboue Scripture but aboue the sudgment of priuate persons For the Church doth not iudge of the Truth of Scripture but of the vnderstanding of thee and mee and others Neither doth the word of God receiue strength therby but only my vnderstanding receiues it For the Scripture is not more true or certaine because it is so expounded by the Church but my Opinion
infallibility because it being euident that she is the selfe same Church which was founded by our Sauiour Christ and continued from the Apostles to this Age by a neuer interrupted succession of Pastours and faythfull people it followes that she is the Church of Christ which being once granted it is further inferred that all are obliged to haue recourse to her and to rest in her iudgement for all other particular points which cōcerne faith or Religion which we could not be obligd to doe if we were persuaded that she were subiect to errour Which yet is more euident if we add that there can be no Rule giuen in what points we should belieue her and in what not and therefore we are obliged to belieue her in all Moreouer since the true Church must be Iudge of Controuersies in fayth as we haue proued it cleerly followes that she must be infallible in all points Which vmuersall infallibility being supposed out of the generall ground of Gods prouidence which is not defectiue in things necessary we may afterward belieue the same infallibility euen by the Church herselfe when she testifies that particular point of her owne infallibility As the Scripture cannot giue Testimony to it selfe till first it be belieued to be Gods word yet this being once presupposed it may afterward giue Testimony to it selfe as S. Paul affirmeth that All Scripture is diuinely (u) 2. Tim. 3.16 inspired c. Secondly I answere that the Church hath many wayes declared her owne infallibility which she professeth euen in the Apostles Creed I belieue the holy Catholique Church For she could not be holy if she were subiect to error in matters of fayth which is the first foundation of all sanctity she could not be Catholique or Vniuersal for all Ages if at any time she could erre and be Author that the whole world should erre in points reuealed by God she could not be One or Apostolicall as she professeth in another Creed if she were diuided in points of fayth or could swarue from the Doctrine of the Apostles she could not be alwayes existent and visible because euery error in fayth destroies all Fayth the Church So that while the Church and euery faythfull person belieues professes the Sanctity Vniuersality Vnity and Perpetuall Visibility of the Church she and they belieue proclaime her infallibility in all matters of fayth which she doth also auouch by accursing all such as belieue not her definitions and while in all occasions of emergent Controuersies she gathers Councels to determine them without examining whether they concerne points fundamentall or not fundamentall while in all such holy Assemblies she sayth with the first Councell It hath (w) Act. 15. seemed to the holy Ghost and vs while she proposeth diuers points to be belieued which are not contained in Scripture as that those who are baptized by Heretiques cannot without sacriledge be rebaptized that Baptisme of Infants is lawfull that Easter is to be kept at a certaine time against the Heretiques called Quartadecimani that the Blessed Virgin the most Immaculate Mother of God was eternally a most pure Virgin that such particular Matter and Forme is necessary for the validity of Sacraments that such particular Bookes Chapters and lines are the word of God with diuers such other points of all which we may say that which S. Augustine said about Rebaptization of Heretiques The obscurity of this Question (x) Lib. 1. cont Donat cap. 7. before the schisme of Donatus did so mooue mon of great note and Fathers and Bishops endued with great Charity to debate and doubt without breach of peace that for a long time in seuerall Regions there were diuers and doubtfull decrees till that which was truly belieued was vndoubtedly established by a full Councell of the whole world And yet the point declared in that Councell was neither fundamentall in your sense nor contained in Scripture And to the same effect are the words of S. Ambrose who speaking of the Heretiques condemned in the Councell of Nice sayth that They were not condemned by humane (y) Lib. 1. defid ad Gratian cap. 5. industry but by the authority of those Fathers as likewise the last Generall Councell of Trent defines That it belongs to the Church (z) 1. Sess 4. to iudge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture which must needs suppose her infallibility And lastly the thirst that euery one who desires to saue his soule feeles in his soule to find out the true Church and the quiet which euery one conceiues he shall enioy if once he find her shewes that the very sense and feeling of all Christians is that the Church is infallible For otherwise what great comfort could any wiseman conceiue to be incorporated in a Church which is conceiued to be subiect to error in matters of fayth 21. For want of better arguments you also alledge (a) pag. 161. some Authors within the Roman Church of great learning as you say who haue declared their opinion that any particular Churchs and by consequence the Roman any Councels though Generall may erre But though that which you affirme were true it would fall short of prouing that the Catholique Church is not infallible in all points For besides particular Churches or Generall Councels there is the common Consent of all Catholiques knowne by perpetuall sacred Tradition and there is likewise the continued Succession of Bishops and Pastors in which if one should place an vniuersall infallibility it were sufficient to ouerthrow your assertion of the fallibility of the Church And euen your selfe teach that the Church is infallible in all fundamentals and yet you affirme that any particular or Generall Councell may erre euen to Heresy or Fundamentall and Damnable errours And therfore you must grant that according to your Principles it is one thing to say Generall Councels may erre and another that the Catholique Church may erre But yet for the thing it selfe it is a matter of fayth that true Generall Councels confirmed by the Pope cannot erre And if any hold the contrary he cannot be excused except by ignorance or inaduertence And as for the Romane Authors which you cite Occham is no competent witnes both because that worke of his dialogues which you cite is condemned and because he himselfe was a knowne enemy and rebellious against the sea Apostolique Besides the words which you cite out of him against the Authority of Councels are not his opinion but alledged for arguments sake for so he professeth expresly in the very preface of that worke and often repeats it that he doth not intend to deliuer any opinion of his owne Thirdly wheras he alledgeth reasons for and against Councels he alledgeth but fine against them and seauen for them Lastly before he comes to dispute against Councels he doth in two seuerall (b) Dialog lib. 5.1 part cap. 25. c. 28. places in the very beginning of those Chapters of which
learned man doth dissent from them Are not I pray you these and the like Traditions vpon which your Hierarchy depends of some consequence and worth your labour to put them in a Catalogue Or doe you not hold the Traditions of the Apostles to be infallible true 23. It is but a Calumny to affirme that (l) pag. 163. we receiue the definitions of the Church with no lesse deuotion then the holy Scriptures For you cite (m) pag. 169. that very place of Bellarmine where he (n) De Cont. l. 2. cap. 12. setteth downe at large fiue singular Prerogatiues of the holy Scriptures aboue the definitions of the Church in which respect your fault is lesse excusable It is your owne doctrine that the Church is infallible in all fundamentals and yet you will not euen in respect of such points equall her Authority with that of holy Scripture 24. At length you come to teach that Generall Councels may erre euen damnably and yet you also teach that their authority is immediately (o) Pag. 162 deriued from Christ and that their decrees (p) Ibid. binde all persons to externall Obedience But will you haue men in matters of fayth externally belieue themselues dissemble against their conscience And thinke that they do so by authority from Christ The truth is that you might as well say the Church is inuisible as to say that her infallibility consists not in Generall Councels but in this that euery member of the Church cannot erre damnably For towards the effect of instructing men in doubts concerning fayth all comes to one effect And with what colour of truth doe you say pag. 164.165 that you giue Generall Councells much more respect then do most of our Aduersaries since Catholiques belieue thē to be infallible which you deny 25. But you would gladly proue that Councels are fallible because they are discoursiue in their deliberations and (r) Pag. 167. vse the weights moments of reason for the drawing out of Conclusions from their Principles wherin it is confessed they may mistake 26. It is true we grant that the Church coynes no new Reuelations but only declares such to vs as haue been already deliuered in the written or vnwritten word of God to finde which out she vseth meanes by searching out true Records of Antiquity by discussing the writings of Fathers by consulting the holy Scriptures Traditions c. because it is the will of God that she vse such meanes But the thing vpon which she finally relyes in her Definitions ex parte Obiecti is the Reuelation or attestation of God which is the Formall and last Motine of fayth and exparte Subiecti in behalfe of herselfe she relies vpon the infallible assistance of the holy Ghost directing her not to propound any falshood insteed of a reuealed truth Thus we read in the first Councell Act. 15. Cùm magna disquisitio sieret After great search examination of the Case by citing Scriptures relating Miracles and the blessing of God declared by the good successe and conuersion of so many Gentiles the final determination did not rely vpon these industries but Visum est Spiritui sancto nobis It hath seemed to the Holy Ghost and vs Which words expresse both the formall Motiue and chiefe efficient Cause of fayth as also the free and voluntary concurring of the Apostles assisted by the Holy Ghost And yet I hope you will not out of these diligences discourses of the Apostles inferre that this Councell was fallible Or that there was no more certainty in the Conclusion then in the Arguments themselues of which some abstracting from the assistance of the holy Ghost and the Authority of the Apostles were but as the Deuines speake Arguments of Credibility and dispositions to fayth as Miracles c. Or will you perhaps with your first Patriarch Luther reprehend euen this Councell of the Apostles and say with him That Iames whose (s) In Assert art 29. opinion the whole Councell followed changed the verdict of peter whose iudgment that the Gentiles should not be constrained to obserue the Iewish Ceremonics was most true cōsequently the opinion of Iames and the Councell could not be true You grant as I must often put you in mind that the Church is infallible in fundamentall points must she therfore vse no industry to attaine to the knowledge of such points And Protestants who hold Scripture to be the only Rule of fayth vse meanes of conferring Text consulting the Originals Prayer c. for attayning the true meaning of Scripture and yet you will not grant that your fayth is fallible because you will say it doth not rely vpon those said fallible meanes but finally as you apprehend it rests in the word of God And if any Catholique Author equall the definitions of the Church with the holy Scripture his meaning is that both the one and the other are so infallible that they cannot deliuer any vntruth For in other respects we grāt many singular Prerogatiues to the holy Scripture more then to the definitions of Councels as may partly beseen in (t) De Conc. lib. 2. cap. 12. Bellarmine 27. Your obiection that the great Councell (u) Pag. 170. of Chalcedon corrected the Second of Ephesus and that S. Augustine sayth Prouinciall Councels (w) De Bapt. cont Donat. lib. 2. cap. 3. may be corrected by Plenary and Plenary Councels the former by the latter hath beene answered a hundred times and I doubt not but that you haue read Bellarmine who (x) De Couc lib. 1. cap. 6. shewes that the second Councell of Ephesus proceeded vnlawfully wherin S. Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople was murthered by the faction of Dioscorus and the Popes Legates were driuen away and finally the Eutichian Heresy was confirmed for which causes that Councell was annulled by Pope Leo. You haue pickt out a pretty example to proue that lawfull Councels confirmed by the Pope may erre To the words of S. Augustine Bellarmine answers that (y) De Consul lib. 2. c. 7. §. Respondeo Primò either they are vnderstood of vnlawfull Councels such as was the second of Ephesus or els they are to be vnderstood of Questions concerning matter of fact as whether Caecilianus had deliuered vp the Bible or finally that latter Councels may be said to correct the former because some decrees which concerne manners may by change of circumstāces proue inconuenient although in the beginning they were very holy and fit Which interpretation is gathered out of S. Augustine himselfe who sayth That Councels may be corrected when Experience doth manifest something which before did not appeare Now experience hath no place in vniuersall doctrines but in particular facts or lawes which respect particular circumstāces of time and place c. Your second Citation in your Margent out of S. Augustine (a) Lib. 3. cōt Maxim whose words you did not recite Bellarmine answeres in the place which I haue cited
belieue infallible vnwritten Traditions And wheras you say Bellarmine is resolute that the Article of the descēt is euery where in Scripture and in Latin Scripturae passim hoc docent Bellarmines wordes are All men agree that Christ descended into Hell aliquo modo in some māner or sense because Scripture euery where teaches so much Why did you leaue out aliquo modo which words might well haue shewed that there was no contrariety betweene Bellarmine Stapleton S. Thomas doth not purposely dispute whether all Articles of the Creed be contayned in Scripture but onely vpon an other occasion teaches that the Creed is not an Addition to Scripture out of which it is taken that the truths belieued by fayth are contained in Scripture diuers wayes and in some obscurely which doth in no wise exclude the Authority of the Church to declare the meaning of the Creed For if some be contayned in Scripture but obscurely who shall declare them to vs but the Church 13. As for the sense of that (f) pag. 240. Article some hold that Christ descended really into Hell Others virtually and by effect This virtuall descent is taught by one only namely Durand and therfore your Others is but an exaggeration and euen he doth not deny Lymbus Patrum or that the Fathers were there nor that Christ descended thither in some sort but only differeth frō others whether he descended secundum substantiam which doctrine or rather doubt of his for he leaueth the thing doubtfull is reiected by all other Deuines as erroneous 14. By Hell some (g) pag. 240. vnderstand the lowest pit or the place of the damned as Bellarmine at first others the Lymbus Patrum as Bellarmine at last Would not one conceiue by your words that in the opinion of Bellarmine Christ descended only into the place of the dāmned And yet your conscience cannot but tell you that Bellarmine neuer doubted but that Christ descended into Lymbus Patrum and only proposed it as doubtfull whether or no he descended into the Hell of the damned and resolued probabile est It is probable that the soule of Christ descended to all the infernall places or Hells But afterward in his Recognitions he retracted his opinions for as much as concerned the place of the damned whereby it is cleere that he neuer doubted of our Sauiours descent to Lymbus and that you affirming the contrary doe without doubt desire to deceiue your Reader 15. You say that it is the most important (h) pag. 242. and most fundamentall of all Articles in the Church to belieue that Iesus Christ the Sonne of God the Son of Mary is the only Sauiour of the world wherin you giue a deadly blow to D. Morton who teaches that the Arians denying our Sauiour to be God do notwithstanding make a true Church and if the opinion of M. Hooker for which you bring diuers Arguments be true you cannot exclude the Arians or Trinitarians from being members of a true Church 16. To cleere the cōfusednes of your Church in her 39. Articles you lay the fault vpon vs. But by your leaue if you read either Catholique Deuines or the Councell of Trent you will find that they speake most cleerly and distinctly But Charity Mistaken doth truly say that you are very carefull not to be too cleerly vnderstood and therefore in many Controuersies whereof that Booke of the 39. Articles speakes it comes not at all to the maine question between them and vs c. Which affirmation of his is most true both in the points by him specified in diuers others as for example The third of our Sauiours descent into Hell The 26. of the Nature and effect of Sacraments The 27. will haue the Baptisme of Children to be retained but doth not specify whether or no it be necessary The 28. about the Lords Supper is so generall and of so large a size that it may reach to Zuinglians Caluinists Lutherans who yet in this Article are known to be as farre asunder from ech other as East from West I omit other Articles and only vrge that which Charity Mistaken presseth and you wholy dissemble that Those Articles do not so much as say that the Articles of doctrine which they deliuer are fundamentall either all or halfe or any one therof or that they are necessarily to be belieued by them or the contrary damnable if it be belieued by vs. Is this to keep your promise not to omit without answere any thing of moment in all his discourse Certainly this which Charity Mistaken doth vrge heere is according to your principles the very quintessence of all other points I will not stand to examine how truly you affirme that our Wil is essentially free from all necessity Such motions of our Will as preuent the deliberation of reason are they not necessary The Will in good Philosophy cannot suffer coaction but it may be necessitated without changing the essence therof 17. To the demaund of Charity Mistaken Why do they not particularly enumerate all the Bookes which they acknowledge to be of the New Testament as they had done them of the Old but only because they must so haue named those Bookes of S. Iames and others for Canonicall which the Lutherans haue cast out of their Canon You answere that the Lutherans do now admit the Epistle of S. Iames and the rest as Canonicall which you proue by D. Gerhard a Lutherā But if this be so you do not answere his Question what the reason is why your Church doth not particularly enumerate all the Bookes which they acknowledge to be of the New Testament as she had done them of the old Besides what Authority had D. Gerhard to speak for all the Lutherans of which there be diuers sorts condemning one another If once you deny the infallibility of the Church what infallible ground hath D. Gerhard this day to admit of those Bookes which yesterday other Lutherans reiected In the Bibles of Luther to this day the Epistle to the Hebrewes the Epistle of S. Iames and S. Iude and the Apocalyps of S. Iohn are excluded from the Canon 18. Now that none of those Bookes which we hold for Canonicall be Apochryphall as you teach Bellarmine (m) De verbo Dei l. 1. per multa çapita proues at large and answers all your obiections And if any heertofore doubted of some of them the Authority of the Visible Catholique Church of Christ ought to preponderate all doubts of particular persons And it is strange that you cite S. Augustine against the Machabees who in that very place which you cite sayth The Scripture (n) Cont. ep Gaudent lib. 2. ç. 23. of the Machabees is receiued by the Church not vnprofitably if it be read and heard soberly which latter words are vnderstood only against desperate inferences of the Donatists who vpon the example of Razias in the History of the Machabees did kill and precipitate themselues as
Booke in two or three sheetes of paper But the truth is he was loath to affirme plainely that generally both Catholiques and Protestants may be saued and yet seeing it to be most euident that Protestants cannot pretend to haue any true Church before Luther except the Roman and such as agreed with her and consequently that they cannot hope for saluation if they deny it to vs he thought best to auoid this difficulty by confusion of language to fill vp his Booke with points which make nothing to the purpose Wherein he is lesse excusable because he must graunt that those very particulers to which he digresseth are not fundamentall errors though it should be granted that they be errors which indeed are Catholique verities For since they be not fundamentall nor destructiue of saluation what imports it whether we hold them or no for as much as concernes our possibility to be saued 3. In one thing only he will perhaps seeme to haue touched the point in question to wit in his distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall because some may thinke that a difference in points which are not fundamentall breakes not the Vnity of Faith and hinders not the hope of saluation in persons so disagreeing And yet in this very distinction he neuer speakes to the purpose indeed but only sayes that there are some points so fundamentall as that all are obliged to know and belieue them explicitely but neuer tells vs whether there be any other points of faith which a man may deny or disbelieue though they be sufficiently presented to his vnderstanding as truths reuealed or testified by almighty God which was the only thing in questioÌ„ For if it be daÌ„nable as certainly it is to deny or disbelieue any one truth witnessed by almighty God thogh the thing be not in it self of any great consequence or moment since of two disagreeing in matters of faith one must necessarily deny some such truth it cleerly followes that amongst men of different Faiths or Religions one onely can be saued though their difference consist of diuers or but euen one point which is not in his owne nature fundamentall as I declare at large in diuers places of my first Part. So that it is cleere D. Potter euen in this his last refuge and distinction neuer comes to the point in question to say nothing that he himselfe doth quite ouerthrow it and plainly contradict his whole designe as I shew in the third Chapter of my first Part. 4. And as for D. Potters manner of handling those very points which are vtterly beside the purpose it consists only in bringing vulgar meane obiections which haue been answered a thousand tymes yea and some of them are cleerely answered euen in Charity Mistaken but he takes no knowledge at all of any such answers and much lesse doth he apply himselfe to confute them He alledgeth also Authors with so great corruption and fraude as I would not haue belieued if I had not found it by cleere and frequent experience In his second Edition he hath indeed left out one or two grosse corruptions amongst many others no lesse notorious hauing as it seemes been warned by some friends that they could not stand with his credit but euen in this his second Edition he retracts them not at all nor declares that he was mistaken in the First and so his Reader of the first Edition shall euer be deceiued by him thogh withall he reade the Second For preuenting of which inconuenience I haue thought it necessary to take notice of them and to discouer them in my Reply 5. And for conclusion of this point I will only say that D. Potter might well haue spared his paines if he had ingenuously acknowledged where the whole substance yea and sometime the very words phrases of his booke may be found in farre briefer manner namely in a Sermon of D. Vshers preached before our late soueraigne Lord King Iames the 20. of Iune 1624. at Wansted containing A Declaration of the Vniuersality of the Church of Christ and the Vnity of Fayth professed therein which Sermon hauing been roundly and wittily confuted by a Catholike Diuine vnder the name of Paulus Veridicus within the compasse of about 4. sheetes of Paper D. Potters Answere to Charity Mistaken was in effect confuted before it appeared And this may suffice for a generall Censure of his Answere to Charity Mistaken 6. For the second touching my Reply if you wonder at the Bulke thereof compared eyther with Charity Mistaken or D. Potters Answer Concerning my Reply I desire you to consider well of what now I am about to say and then I hope you will see that I was cast vpon a meere necessity of not being so short as otherwise might peraduenture be desired Charity Mistaken is short I grant and yet very full and large for as much as concerned his designe which you see was not to treate of particuler Controuersies in Religion no not so much as to debate whether or no the Roman Church be the onely true Church of Christ which indeed would haue required a larger Volume as I haue vnderstood there was one then coming forth if it had not been preuented by the Treatise of Charity Mistaken which seemed to make the other inteÌ„ded worke a little lesse seasonable at that tyme. But Charity Mistaken proues onely in Generall out of some Vniuersall Principles well backed and made good by choyce and solide authorities â—hat of two disagreeing in points of Fayth one â—nely without repentance can be saued which ayme exacted no great bulke And as for D. Potters Answere euen that also is not so short as it may seeme For if his marginall notes printed in a small letter were transfered into the Text the Booke would appeare to be of some bulke though indeed it might haue been very short if he had kept himself to the point treated by Charity Mistaken as shall be declared anon But contrarily because the question debated betwixt Charity Mistaken D. Potter is a point of the highest consequence that can be imagined in regard that there is not a more pernicious Heresy or rather indeed ground of Atheisme then a persuasion that men of different Religions may be saued if otherwise forsooth they lead a kind of ciuill and morall life I conceaued that my chiefe endeauour was not to be employed in answering D. Potter but that it was necessary to handle the Question it selfe somewhat at large and not only to proue in generall that both Protestants and Catholikes cannot be saued but to shew also that Saluation cannot be hoped for out of the Catholique Roman Church and yet withall not to omit to answere all the particules of D Potters Booke which may any way import To this end I thought it fit to deuide my Reply into two Parts in the former whereof the maine question is handled by a continued discourse without steâ—â—ping aside to confute the particulers of D.
Potters Answere though yet so as that euen in this first Part I omit not to answere such passages of his as I find directly in my way and naturally belong to the points wherof I treat in the second Part I answere D. Potters Treatise Section by Section as they lie in order I heer therefore intreate the Reader that if hartily he desire satisfaction in this so important question he do not content himselfe with that which I say to Doctour Potter in my second Part but that he take the First before him eyther all or at least so much as may serue most to his purpose of being satisfied in those doubts which presse him most For which purpose I haue caused a Table of the Chapters of the first Part together with their Titles Arguments to be prefixed before my Reply 7. This was then a chiefe reason why I could not be very short But yet there wanted not also diuers other causes of the same effect For there are so seuerall kinds of Protestants through the difference of Tenets which they hold as that if a man conuince but one kind of them the rest will conceiue themselues to be as truly vnsatisfyed and euen vnspoken to as if nothing had been said therein at all As for example some hold a necessity of a perpetuall visible Church and some hold no such necessity Some of them hold it necessary to be able to proue it distinct from ours others that their businesse is dispatched when they haue proued ours to haue beene alwayes visible for then they will conceiue that theirs hath been so and the like may be truly said of very many other particulers Besides it is D. Potters fashion wherein as he is very far from being the first so I pray God he proue the last of that humour to touch in a word many triuiall old obiectioÌ„s which if they be not all answered it will and must serue the turne to make the more ignorant sort of men belieue and brag as if some maine vnanswerable matter had been subtily purposely omitted and euery body knowes that some obiection may be very plausibly made in few words the cleere and solid answere whereof will require more leaues of paper then one And in particuler D. Potter doth couch his corruption of Authors within the compasse of so few lines and with so great confuseones and fraude that it requires much time paines and paper to open them so distinctly as that they may appeare to euery mans eye It was also necessary to shew what D. Potter omits in Charity Mistaken and the importance of what is omitted and sometimes to set downe the very words themselues that are omitted all which could not but add to the quantity of my Reply And as for the quality thereof I desire thee good Reader to belieue that whereas nothing is more necessary theÌ„ Bookes for answering of Bookes yet I was so ill furnished in this kind that I was forced to omit the examination of diuers Authors cited by D. Potter meerely vpon necessity though I did very well perceaue by most apparant circumstances that I must probably haue been sure inough to find them plainely misalleadged and much wronged and for the few which are examined there hath not wanted some difficulties to do it For the times are not for all men alike and D. Potter hath much aduantage therein But Truth is Truth and will euer be able to iustify it selfe in the midst of all difficulties which may occurre As for me when I alledge Protestant Writers as well domesticall as forraine I willingly and thankefully acknowledge my selfe obliged for diuers of them to the Author of the Booke entituled The Protestants Apology for the Roman Church who calls himselfe Iohn Brereley whose care exactnes and fidelity is so extraordinary great as that he doth not only cite the Bookes but the Editions also with the place and time of their printing yea and often the very page and line where the words are to be had And if you happen not to find what he cites yet suspend your iudgment till you haue read the corrections placed at the end of his booke though it be also true that after all diligence and faithfulnes on his behalfe it was not in his power to amend all the faults of the print in which prints we haue difficulty inough for many euident reasons which must needs occur to any prudent man 8. And for asmuch as concernes the manner of my Reply I haue procured to do it without all bitternes or gall of inuectiue words both for as much as may import either Protestants in generall or D. Potters person in particuler vnles for example he will call it bitternesse for me to terme a grosse impertinency a sleight or a corruption by those very names without which I do not know how to expresse the things and yet wherein I can truly affirme that I haue studied how to deliuer them in the most moderate way to the end I might giue as little offence as possibly I could without betraying the Cause And if any vnfit phrase may peraduenture haue escaped my pen as I hope none hath it was beside and against my intention though I must needs professe that D. Potter giues so many and so iust occasions of being round with him as that perhaps some will iudge me to haue been rather remisse then moderate But since in the very Title of my Reply I professe to maintaine Charity I conceiue that the excesse will be more excusable amongst all kinds of men if it fall to be in mildnes then if it had appeared in too much zeale And if D. Potter haue a mind to charge me with ignorance or any thing of that nature I can and will ease him of that labour by acknowledging in my selfe as many more personall defects then he can heape vpon me Truth only and sincerity I so much valew and professe as that he shall neuer be able to proue the contrary in any one least passage or particle against me 9. Rules to be obserued if D. Potter intend a Reâ—oynders In the third last place I haue thought fit to expresse my selfe thus If D. Potter or any other resolue to answere my Reply I desire that he will obserue some things which may tend to his owne reputation the sauing of my vnnecessary paines and especially to the greater aduantage of truth I wish then that he would be carefull to consider wherein the point of euery difficulty consists and not impertinently to shoote at Rouers and affectedly mistake one thing for another As for example to what purpose for as much as coÌ„cernes the question betweene D. Potter and Charity Mistaken doth he so often and seriously labour to proue that fayth is not resolued into the Authority of the Church as into the formall Obiect and Motiue thereof Or that all points of Fayth are contained in Scripture Or that the Church cannot make new Articles of
fayth Or that the Church of Rome as it signifies that particuler Church or diocesse is not all one with the vniuersall Church Or that the Pope as a priuate Doctour may erre With many other such points as will easily appeare in their proper places It wil also be necessary for him not to put certaine Doctrines vpon vs from which he knowes we disclaime as much as himselfe 10. I must in like manner intreate him not to recite my reasons discourses by halfes but to set theÌ„ down faythfully entirely for as much as in very deed concernes the whole substance of the thing in questioÌ„ because the want somtime of one word may chance to make voyd or lessen the force of the whole argumeÌ„t And I am the more solicitous about giuing this particuler caueat because I find how ill he hath complied with the promise which he made in his Preface to the Reader not to omit without answere any one thing of moment in all the discourse of Charity Mistaken Neither will this course be a cause that his Reioynder grow too large but it will be occasion of breuity to him and free me also from the paines of setting downe all the words which he omits and himself of demonstrating that what he omitted was not materiall Nay I will assure him that if he keep himselfe to the point of euery difficulty and not weary the Reader and ouercharge his margent with vnnecessary quotations of Authors in Greeke and Latin and sometime also in Italian and French togeather with prouerbs sentences of Poets and such grammaticall stuffe nor affect to cite a multitude of our Catholique Schoole deuines to no purpose at all his Booke will not exceed a competent size nor will any man in reason be offended with that length which is regulated by necessity Agayne before he come to set downe his answere or propose his Arguments let him consider very wel what may be replied and whether his owne obiections may not be retorted against himselfe as the Reader will perceiue to haue hapned often to his disaduantage in my Reply against him But especially I expect and Truth it selfe exacts at his hand that he speake cleerly and distinctly and not seeke to walke in darknes so to delude and deceiue his Reader now saying and then denying and alwayes speaking with such ambiguity as that his greatest care may seeme to consist in a certaine art to find a shift as his occasions might chance eyther now or heereafter to require and as he might fall out to be vrged by diuernty of seuerall arguments And to the end it may appeare that I deale plainely as I would haue him also do I desire that he declare himselfe concerning these points 11. First whether our Sauiour Christ haue not alwayes had and be not euer to haue a visible true Church on earth whether the contrary doctrine be not a damnable Heresy 12. Secondly what visible Church there was before Luther disagreeing from the Roman Church and agreeing with the pretended Church of Protestants 13. Thirdly Since he will be forced to grant that there caÌ„ be assigned no visible true Church of Christ distinct from the Church of Rome and such Churches as agreed with her when Luther first appeared whether it do not follow that she hath not erred fundamentally because euery such errour destroies the nature and being of the Church and so our Sauiour Christ should haue had no visible Church on earth 14. Fourthly if the Roman Church did not fall into any fundamentall errour let him tell vs how it can be damnable to liue in her Communion or to maintaine errours which are knowne confessed not to be fundamentall or damnable 15. Fiftly if her Errours were not damnable nor did exclude saluation how can they be excused from Schisme who forsooke her Communion vpon pretence of errours which were not damnable 16. Sixtly if D. Potter haue a mind to say that her Errours are damnable or fundamentall let him do vs so much charity as to tell vs in particuler what those fundamentall errours be But he must still remember and my selfe must be excused for repeating it that if he say the Roman Church eâ—â—ed fundamentally he will not be able to shew that Christ our Lord had any visible Church on earth when Luther appeared let him tel vs how Protestants had or can haue any Church which was vniuersall and extended herselfe to all ages if once he grant that the Roman Church ceased to be the true Church of Christ and consequenly how they can hope for Saluation if they deny it to vs. 17. Seauenthly whether any one Errour maintayned against any one Truth though neuer so small in it selfe yet sufficiently propounded as testified or reuealed by almighty God do not destroy the Nature and Vnity of Faith or at least is not a grieuous offence excluding Saluation 18. Eightly if this be so how can Lutherans Caluinists Zuinglians and all the rest of disagreeing ProtestaÌ„ts hope for saluation since it is manifest that some of them must needs erre against some such truth as is testified by almighty God either fundamentall or at least not fundamentall 19. Ninthly we constantly vrge and require to haue a particuler Catalogue of such points as he calls fundamentall A catalogue I say in particuler and not only some generall definition or description wherein Protestants may perhaps agree though we see that they differ when they come to assigne what points in particuler be fundamentall and yet vpon such a particuler Catalogue much depends as for example in particuler whether or no a maÌ„ do not erre in some point fundamentall or necessary to saluation and whether or no Lutherans Caluinists and the rest do disagree in fundamentals which if they do the same Heauen cannot receiue them all 20. Tenthly and lastly I desire that in answering to these points he would let vs know distinctly what is the doctrine of the Protâ—stant English Church concerning them and what he vtters only as his owne priuate opinion 21. These are the questions which for the present I find it fit and necessary for me to aske of D. Potter or any other who will defend his cause or impugne ours And it will be in vaine to speake vainely and to tell me that a Foole may aske more questions in an houre then a wiseman can answere in a yeare with such idle Prouerbs as that For I aske but such questions as for which he giues occasion in his Booke and where he declares not himselfe but after so ambiguous and confused a manner as that Truth it selfe can scarce tell how to conuince him so but that with ignorant and ill-iudging men he will seeme to haue somewhat left to say for himselfe though Papists as he calls them and Puritans should presse him contrary wayes at the same tyme and these questions concerne things also of high importance as wherevpon the knowledge of Gods Church true Religion and consequently Saluation of
the soule depends And now because he shall not taxe me with being like those men in the Gospell whom our blessed Lord and Sauiour charged with laying heauy burdens vpon other mens shoulders who yet would not touch them with their finger I oblige my selfe to answere vpon any demaund of his both to all these Questions if he find that I haue not done it already and to any other concerning matter of faith that he shall aske And I will tell him very plainly what is Catholique doctrine and what is not that is what is defined or what is not defined and rests but in discussion among Deuines 22. And it will be heere expected that he performe these things as a man who professeth learning should doe not flying from questions which concerne things as they are considered in their owne nature to accidentall or rare circumstances of ignorance incapacity want of meanes to be instructed erroneous cōscience and the like which being very various and different cannot be well comprehended vnder any generall Rule But in deliuering generall doctrines we must consider things as they be ex naturarei or per se loquendo as Deuines speake that is according to their natures if all circumstances concurre proportionable thereunto As for example some may for a time haue inuincible ignorance euen of some fundamentall article of fayth through want of capacity instruction or the like and so not offend eyther in such ignorance or errour and yet we must absolutely say that errour in any one fundamentall point is damnable because so it is if we consider things in themselues abstracting from accidentall circumstances in particuler persons as contrarily if some man iudge some act of vertue or some indifferent action to be a sinne in him it is a sinne indeed by reason of his erroneous conscience and yet we ought not to say absolutely that vertuous or indifferent actions are sinnes and in all sciences we must distinguish the generall Rules from their particuler Exceptions And therefore when for example he answers to our demand whether he hold that Catholiques may be saued or whether their pretended errours be fundamentall and damnable he is not to change the state of the question and haue recourse to Ignorance and the like but to answere concerning the errours being considered what they are apt to be in themselues and as they are neyther increased nor diminished by accidentall circumstances 23. And the like I say of all the other points to which I once againe desire an answere without any of these or the like ambiguous termes in some sort in some sease in some degree which may be explicated afterward as strictly or largely as may best serue his turne but let him tell vs roundly and particulerly in what sort in what sense in what degree he vnderstands those the like obscure mincing phrases If he proceed solidly after this manner and not by way of meere words more like a Preacher to a vulgar Auditour then like a learned man with a pen in his hand thy patience shall be the lesse abused and truth will also receiue more right And since we haue already layed the grounds of the question much may be sayd heereafter in few words if as I sayd he keep close to the reall point of euery difficulty without wandring into impertinent disputes multiplying vulgar and threed-bare obiections and arguments or labouring to proue what no mā denies or making a vaine ostentation by citing a number of Schoolemen which euery Puny brought vp in Schooles is able to doe and if he cite his Authours with such sincerity as no time need be spent in opening his corruptions and finally if he set himselfe a worke with this consideration that we are to giue a most strict accompt to a most iust and vnpartiall Iudge of euery period line and word that passeth vnder our pen. For if at the later day we shall be arraigned for euery idle word which is spoken so much more will that be done for euery idle word which is written as the deliberation wherwith it passeth makes a man guilty of more malice and as the importance of the matter which is treated of in bookes concerning true fayth and religion without which no Soule can be saued makes a mans Errours more materiall then they would be if question were but of toyes A TABLE OF THE Chapters and Contents of this ensuing First Part of Reply CHAP. I. THE true state of the Question VVith a Summary of the Reasons for vvhich amongst men of different Religions one side only can be saued CHAP. II. VVhat is that meanes vvherby the reuealed truths of God are conueyed to our Vnderstanding and vvhich must determine Controuersies in Fayth and Religion CHAP. III. That the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is neither pertinent nor true in our present Controuersy And that the Catholique visible Church cannot erre in eyther kind of the sayd points CHAP. IIII. To say that the Creed containes all points necessarily to be belieued is neyther pertinent to the Question in hand nor in it selfe true CHAP. V. That Luther Caluin their associates and all vvho began or continue the separation from the externall Communion of the Roman Church are guilty of the proper and formall sinne of Schisme CHAP. VI. That Luther and therest of Protestants haue added Heresy to Schisme CHAP. VII In regard of the Precept of Charity tovvards ones selfe Protestants are in state of Sinne as long as they remaine separated from the Roman Church THE FIRST PART The State of the Question vvith a Summary of the reasons for vvhich amongst men of different Religions one side onely can be saued CHAP. I. NEVER is Malice more indiscreet then when it chargeth others with imputation of that to which it selfe becoms more liable euen by that very act of accusing others For though guiltines be the effect of some errour yet vsually it begets a kind of Moderation so far forth as not to let men cast such aspersions vpon others as must apparantly reflect vpon themselues Thus cannot the Poet endure Quis tulerit Gracchum c. that Gracchus who was a factious and vnquiet man should be inueighing against Sedition and the Roman Oratour rebukes Philosophers who to wax glorious superscribed their Names vpon those very Bookes which they entitled Of the contempt of glory What then shall we say of D. Potter who in the Title and Text of his whole Booke doth so tragically charge Want of Charity on all such Romanists as dare affirme that Protestancy destroyeth Saluation while he himselfe is in act of pronouncing the like heauy doome against Roman Catholiques For not satisfied with much vnciuil language in affirming the Roman Church many (a) Pag. 11. wayes to haue played the Harlot and in that regard deserued a bill of diuorce from Christ and detestation of Christians in stiling her that proud (b) Ibid. and curst Dame of Rome which takes vpon her to reuell in
This is my Body This is my bloud translates This signifies my Body This signifies my bloud And heere let Protestants consider duely of these points Saluation cannot be hoped for without true faith Faith according to them relies vpon Scripture alone Scripture must be deliuered to most of them by the Translations Translations depend on the skill and honesty of men in whom nothing is more certaine then a most certaine possibility to erre and no greater euidence of Truth then that it is euident some of them imbrace falshood by reason of their contrary translations What then remaineth but that truth faith saluation all must in them rely vpon a fallible and vncertaine ground How many poore soules are lamentably seduced while from preaching Ministers they admire a multitude of Texts of diuine Scripture but are indeed the false translations and corruptions of erring men Let them therfore if they will be assured of true Scriptures fly to the alwayes visible Catholique Church against which the gates of hell can neuer so far preuaile as that she shall be permitted to deceiue the Christian world with false Scriptures And Luther himselfe by vnfortunate experience was at length forced to confesse thus much saying If the (s) lib cont Zwingl de verit corp Christi in Euchar. world last longer it will be againe necessary to receiue the Decrees of Councels to haue recourse to them by reason of diuers interpretations of Scripture which now raigne On the contrary side the Translation approued by the Roman Church is commended euen by our Aduersaries and D. Couell in particuler sayth that it was vsed in the Church one thousand (t) In his answere vnto M. John Burges pag. 94. three hundred yeares agoe and doubteth not to prefer (u) Ibid. that Translation before others In so much that whereas the English translations be many and among themselues disagreeing he concludeth that of all those the approued translation authorized by the Church of England is that which commeth nearest to the vulgar and is commonly called the Bishops Bible So that the truth of that translation which we vse must be the rule to iudge of the goodnesse of their Bibles and therefore they are obliged to maintaine our Translation if it were but for their owne sake 17. But doth indeed the source of their manifold vncertainties stop heer No! The chiefest difficulty remaines concerning the true meaning of Scripture for attayning whereof if Protestants had any certainty they could not disagree so hugely as they do Hence M. Hooker saith We are (w) In his Preface to his Bookes of Ecclesiasticall Policy Sect. 6. 26. right sure of this that Nature Scripture and Experience haue all taught the world to seeke for the ending of contentions by submitting it selfe vnto some iudiciall and definitiue sentence whereunto neither part that contendeth may vnder any pretence refuse to stand D. Fields words are remarkable to this purpose Seeing saith he the controuersies (x) In his Treatise of the Church In his Epistle dedicatory to the L. Archbishop of Religion in our times are growne in number so many and in nature so intricate that few haue time and leasure fewer strength of vnder standing to examine them what remaineth for men desirous of satisfaction in things of such consequence but diligently to search out which among all the societyes in the world is that blessed Company of holy Ones that houâ—â—â—ould of Faith that Spouse of Christ and Church of the liuing God which is the Pillar and ground of Truth that so they may imbrace her communion follow her directions and rest in her iudgment 18. And now that the true Interpretation of Scripture ought to be receiued from the Church it is also proued by what we haue already demonstrated that she it is who must declare what Bookes be true Scripture wherein if she be assisted by the Holy Ghost why should we not belieue her to be infallibly directed concerning the true meaning of them Let Protestants therfore eyther bring some proofe out of Scripture that the Church is guided by the Holy Ghost in discerning true Scripture and not in deliuering the true sense thereof Or els giue vs leaue to apply against them the argument which S. Augustine opposed to the Manicheans in these words I would not (y) Cont. ep Fund cap. 5. belieue the Gospel vnles the authority of the Church did moue me Them therfore whom I obeyed saying Belieue the Gospell why should I not obey saying to me Do not belieue Manichaeus Luther Caluin c. Choose what thou pleasest If thou shalt say Belieue the Catholiques They warne me not to giue any credit to you If therefore I belieue them I cannot belieue thee If thou say Do not belieue the Catholiques thou shalt not do well in forcing me to the faith of Manichaeus because by the preaching of Catholiques I belieued the Gospell it selfe If thou say you did well to belieue them Catholiques commending the Gospell but you did not well to belieue them discommending Manichaeus Dost thou thinke me so very foolish that without any reason at all I should belieue what thou wilts not belieue what thou wilts not And do not ProtestaÌ„ts perfectly resemble these men to whom S. Augustine spake when they will haue men to belieue the Roman Church deliuering Scripture but not to belieue her condemning Luther and the rest Against whom when they first opposed themselues to the Roman Church S. Augustine may seeme to haue spoken no lesse prophetically then doctrinally when he said Why should I not most (z) lib. de vtil cre cap. 14. diligenily inquire what Christ commanded of them before all others by whose authority I was moued to belieue that Christ commanded any good thing Canst thou better declare to me what he said whom I would not haue thought to haue been or to be if the beliefe thereof had been recommended by thee to me This therefore I belieued by fame strengthned with celebrity consent Antiquity But euery one may see that you so few so turbulent so new can produce nothing deseruing authority What madnes is this Belieue them Catholiques that wrought to belieue Christ but learne of vs what Christ said Why I beseech thee Surely if they Catholiques were not at all and could not teach me any thing I would more easily perswade my selfe that I were not to belieue Christ then that I should learne any thing concerning him from any other then them by whom I belieued him If therefore we receiue the knowledge of Christ and Scriptures from the Church from her also must we take his doctrine and the interpretation thereof 19. But besides all this the Scriptures cannot be Iudge of Controuersies who ought to be such as that to him not only the learned or Veterans but also the vnlearned and Nouices may haue recourse for these being capable of saluation and endued with faith of the same nature with that of the learned there must
points and in particuler in this that Scripture alone is Iudge of Controuersies And so the very principle vpon which their whole faith is grounded remaines to them vncertaine and on the other side for the selfe same reason they are not certaine but that the Church is Iudge of Controuersies which if she be then their case is lamentable who in generall deny her this authority in particular Controuersies oppose her definitions Besides among publique Conclusions defended in Oxford the yeare 1633. to the questions Whether the Church haue authority to determent Controuersies in faith And To interpret holy Scripture The answere to both is Affirmatiue 27. Since then the Visible Church of Christ our Lord is that infallible Meanes whereby the reucaled Truths of Almighty God are conueyed to our Vnderstanding it followeth that to oppose her definitions is to resist God himselfe which blessed S. Augustine plainely affirmeth when speaking of the Controuersy about Rebaptization of such as were baptized by Heretiques he saith This (r) Devnit Eccles c. 22. is neither openly nor euidently read neither by you nor by me yet if there were any wise man of whom our Sauiour had giuen testimony and that he should be consulted in this question we should make no doubt to performe what he should say least we might seeme to gainsay not him so much as Christ by whose testimony he was recommended Now Christ beareth witnes to his Church And a little after Whosoeuer refuseth to follow the practise of the Church doth resist our Sauiour himselfe who by his testimony recommends the Church I conclude therfore with this argument Whosoeuer resisteth that meanes which infallibly proposeth to vs God's Word or Reuelation commits a sinne which vnrepented excluds saluation But whosoeuer resisteth Christs visible Church doth resist that meanes which infallibly proposeth God's word or reuelation to vs Therfore whosoeuer resisteth Christs visible Church commits a sinne which vnrepented excluds saluation Now what visible Church was extant when Luther began his pretended Reformation whether it were the Roman or Protestant Church whether he and other Protestants do not oppose that visible Church which was spread ouer the world before and in Luthers time is easy to be determined and importeth euery one most seriously to ponder as a thing wheron eternall saluation dependeth And because our Aduersaries do heere most insist vpon the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall and in particular teach that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall it will be necessary to examine the truth and weight of this euasion which shall be done in the next Chapter CHAP. III. That the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is neither pertinent nor true in our present Controuersy And that the Catholique Visible Church cannot erre in either kind of the said points THIS distinction is abused by Protestants to many purposes of theirs and therfore if it be either vntrue or impertinent as they vnderstand apply it the whole edifice built theron must be ruinous and false For if you obiect their bitter and continued discords in matters of faith without any meanes of agreement they instantly tell you as Charity Mistaken plainely shewes that they differ only in points not fundamentall If you conuince them euen by their owne Confessions that the ancient Fathers taught diuers points held by the Roman Church against Protestants they reply that those Fathers may neuertheles be saued because those errors were not fundamentall If you will them to remember that Christ must alwayes haue a visible Church on earth with administration of Sacraments and succession of Pastors and that when Luther appeared there was no Church distinct from the Roman whose Communion and Doctrine Luther then forsooke and for that cause must be guilty of Schisme and Heresy they haue an Answere such as it is that the Catholique Church cannot perish yet may erre in points not fundamentall and therfore Luther and other Protestants were obliged to forsake her for such errors vnder paine of Damnation as if forsooth it were Damnable to hold an error not Fundamentall nor Damnable If you wonder how they can teach that both Catholiques and Protestants may be saued in their seuerall professions they salue this contradiction by saying that we both agree in all fundamentall points of faith which is inough for saluation And yet which is prodigiously strange they could neuer be induced to giue a Catalogue what points in particular be fundamentall but only by some generall description or by referring vs to the Apostles Creed without determining what points therein be fundamentall or not fundamentall for the matter and in what sense they be or be not such and yet concerning the meaning of diuers points contained or reduced to the Creed they differ both from vs and amōg themselues And indeed it being impossible for them to exhibite any such Catalogue the said distinction of points although it were pertinent and true cannot serue them to any purpose but still they must remaine vncertaine whether or not they disagree from one another from the ancient Fathers and from the Catholique Church in points fundamentall which is to say they haue no certainty whether they enjoy the substance of Christian Faith without which they cannot hope to be saued But of this more heerafter 2. And to the end that what shall be sayd concerning this distinction may be better vnderstood we are to obserue that there be two precepts which concerne the vertue of fayth or our obligation to belieue diuine truths The one is by Deuines called Affirmatiue wherby we are obliged to haue a positiue explicite beliefe of some chiefe Articles of Christian faith The other is termed Negatiue which strictly binds vs not to disbelieue that is not to belieue the cōtrary of any one point sufficiently represented to our vnderstācing as reuealed or spoken by Almighty God The sayd Affirmatiue Precept according to the nature of such commands inioynes some act to be performed but not at all tymes nor doth it equally bind all sorts of persons in respect of all Obiects to be belieued For obiects we grant that some are more necessary to be explicitely and seuerall belieued then other eyther because they are in themselues more great and weighty or els in regard they instruct vs in some necessary Christian duty towards God our selues or our Neyghbour For persons no doubt but some are obliged to know distinctly more then others by reason of their office vocation capacity or the like For tymes we are not obliged to be still in act of exercising acts of fayth but according as seuerall occasions permit or require The second kind of precept called Negatiue doth according to the nature of all such commands oblige vniuersally all persons in respect of all obiects at all tymes semper pro semper as Deuines speake This generall doctrine will be more cleere by examples I am not obliged to be alwayes helping my Neighbour because
consequeÌ„ce because if once we doubt of one Booke receiued for Canonicall the whole Canon is made doubtfull and vncertayne and therefore the Infallibility of Scripture must be vniuersall and not confined within compasse of points fundamentall 15. I answere For the thing it selfe it is very true that if I doubt of any one parcell of Scripture receaued for such I may doubt of all And thence by the same parity I inferre that if we did doubt of the Churches Infallibility in some points we could not belieue her in any one and consequently not in propounding Canonicall Bookes or any other points fundamentall or not fundamentall which thing being most absurd and withall most impious we must take away the ground thereof belieue that she cannot erre in any point great or small and so this reply doth much more strengthen what we intended to proue Yet I add that Protestants cannot make vse of this reply with any good coherence to this their distinction and some other doctrines which they defend For if D. Potter can tell what points in particuler be fundamentall as in his 7. Sect. he pretendeth then he may be sure that whensoeuer he meets with such points in Scripture in them it is infallibly true although it might erre in others not only true but cleere because Protestants teach that in matters necessary to Saluation the Scripture is so cleere that all such necessary Truths are eyther manifestly contayned therein or may be cleerely deduced from it Which doctrines being put togeather to wit That Scriptures cannot erre in points fundamentall that they cleerely containe all such points and that they can tell what points in particuler be such I meane fundamentall it is manifest that it is sussicieÌ„t for Saluation that Scripture be infallible only in points fundamentall For supposing these doctrines of theirs to be true they may be sure to find in Scripture all points necessary to saluation although it were fallible in other points of lesse moment Neyther will they be able to auoyde this impiety against holy Scripture till they renounce their other doctrines and in particuler till they belieue that Christs promises to his Church are not limited to points fundamentall 16. Besides from the fallibility of Christs Catholique Church in some points it followeth that no true Protestant learned or vnlearned doth or can with assurance belieue the vniuersall Church in any one point of doctrine Not in points of lesser momeÌ„t which they call not fundamentall because they belieue that in such points she may erre Not in fundamentalls because they must know what points be fundamentall before they go to learne of her least other wise they be rather deluded then instructed in regard that her certaine and infallible direction extends only to points fundamentall Now if before they addresse themselues to the Church they must know what points are fundamentall they learne not of her but will be be as fit to teach as to be taught by her How then are all Christians so often so seriously vpon so dreadfull menaces by Fathers Scriptures and our blessed Sauiour himselfe counselled and commaunded to seeke to heare to obey the Church S. Augustine was of a very different mind from Protestants If sayth he the (s) Epist. 118. Church through the whole world practise any of these things to dispute whether that ought to be so done is a most insolent madnes And in another place he sayth That which (t) lib. 4. de Bapt. c. 24. the whole Church holds and is not ordained by CouÌ„cels but hath alwaies beene kept is most rightly belieued to be deliuered by Apostolicall authority The same holy Father teacheth that the custome of baptizing children cannot be proued by Scripture alone and yet that it is to be belieued as deriued from the Apostles The custome of our Mother the (u) lib. 10. de Genesi ad liter cap. 23. Church saith he in baptizing infants is in no wise to be contemned nor to be accounted superfluous nor is it at all to be belieued vnles it were an Apostolicall Tradition And elsewhere Christ (w) Serm. 54. de verbis Apost c. 18. is of profit to Children baptized Is he therefore of profit to persons not belieuing But God forbid that I should say Infants doe not belieue I haue already sayd he belieues in another who sinned in another It is sayd he belieues it is of force and he is reckoned among the faythfull that are baptized This the authority of our Mother the Church hath against this stâ—eÌ„gth against this inuincible wal whosoeuer rusheth shal be crushed in pieces To this argument the Protestants in the CoÌ„ference at Ratisbon gaue this round answer Nos ab Augustino (x) See Protocoll Monac edit 2. pag. 367. hac in parte liberè dissentimus In this we plainely disagree from Augustine Now if this doctrine of baptizing Infants be not fundamentall in D. Potters sense then according to S. Augustine the infallibility of the Church extends to points not fundamentall But if on the other side it be a fundamentall point then according to the same holy Doctour we must rely on the authority of the Church for some fundamentall point not contained in Scripture but deliuered by Tradition The like argument I frame out of the same Father about the not rebaptizing of those who were baptized by Heretiques whereof he excellently to our present purpose speaketh in this manner We follow (y) lib. 1. cont Crescon cap. 32. 33. indeed in this matter euen the most certaine authority of Canonicall Scriptures But how Consider his words Although verily there be brought no example for this point out of the Canonicall Scriptures yet euen in this point the truth of the same Scriptures is held by vs while we do that which the authority of Scriptures doth recommend that so because the holy Scripture cannot deceiue vs whosoeuer is afraid to be deceiued by the obscurity of this question must haue recourse to the same Church concerning it which without any ambiguity the holy Scripture doth demonstrate to vs. AmoÌ„g many other points in the aforesaid words we are to obserue that according to this holy Father when we proue some points not particulerly contained in Scripture by the authority of the Church euen in that case we ought not to be said to belieue such points without Scripture because Scripture it selfe recommends the Church and therfore relying on her we rely on Scripture without danger of being deceiued by the obscurity of any question defined by the Church And else where he sayth Seing this is (z) De vnit Eccles c. 19. written in no Scripture we must belieue the testimony of the Church which Christ declareth to speake the truth But it seemes D. Potter is of opinion that this doctrine about not rebaptizing such as were baptized by Heretiques is no necessary point of faith nor the contrary an heresy wherin he coÌ„tradicteth S. Augustine from whom we haue now
his Sermon of the Vnity of the Catholique fayth grants Saluation to the Aethiopians who yet with Christian Baptisme ioyne CircuÌ„cision D. Potter (q) Pag. 113.114 cites the doctrine of some whome he termeth men of great learning and iudgement that all who professe to loue and honour IESVS-CHRIST are in the visible Christian Church and by Catholiques to be reputed Brethren One of these men of great learning and iudgment is Thomas Morton by D. Potter cited in his Margent whose loue honour to Iesus-Christ you may perceyue by his saying that the Churches of Arians who denyed our Sauiour Christ to be God are to be accounted the Church of God because they doe hold the foundation of the Ghospell Morton in his Treatise of the King dome of Israel pag. 94. which is Fayth in Iesus-Christ the Sonne of God and Sauiour of the world And which is more it seemeth by these charitable men that for being a member of the Church it is not necessary to belieue one only God For D. Potter (r) pag. 121. among the arguments to proue Hookers Mortons opinion brings this The people of the ten Tribes after their defection notwithstanding their grosse corruptions and Idolatry remained still a true Church We may also as it seemeth by these mens reasoning deny the Resurrection and yet be meÌ„bers of the true Church For a learned man sayth D. Potter (s) pag. 122. in behalfe of Hookers and Mortons opinion was anciently made a Bishop of the Catholique Church though he did professedly doubt of the last ResurrectioÌ„ of our bodies Deere Sautour What tymes doe we behold If one may be a member of the true Church and yet deny the Trinity of Persons the God head of our Sauiour the necessity of Baptisme if we may vse Circumcision and with the worship of God ioyne Idolatry wherin doe we differ from Turks and Iewes or rather are we not worse then eyther of them If they who deny our Sauiours diuinity might be accounted the Church of God how will they deny that fauour to those ancient Heretiques who denyed our Sauiours true humanity and so the totall deny all of Christ will not exclude one from being a member of the true Church S. Huary (t) CommeÌ„t in Matt. c. 16. maketh it of equall necessity for Saluation that we belieue our Sauiour to be true God and true Man saying This manner of Confession we are to hold that we remember him to be the Sonne of God and the Sonne of Man because the one without the other can giue no hope of Saluation And yet D. Potter sayth of the aforesayd doctrine of Hooker and Morton The (u) pag. 123. Reader may be pleased to approue or reiect it as he shall find cause And in another place (w) pag. 253. he sheweth so much good liking of this doctrine that he explicateth and proueth the Churches perpetuall Visibility by it And in the second Edition of his booke he is carefull to declare and illustrate it more at large then he had done before howsoeuer this sufficiently sheweth that they haue no certainty what points be fundamentall As for the Arians in particuler the Authour whome D. Potter cites for a moderate Catholike but is indeed a plaine Heretique or rather Atheist Lucian-like resting at all Religion placeth Arianisme among fundamentall errors But (x) A moderate examination c. ç. 1. paulo post initiuâ—â— contrarily an English Protestant Deuine masked vnder the name of Irenaeus Philalethes in a little Booke in Latin entituled Dissertatio de pace concordiae Ecclesiae endeauoureth to proue that euen the deniall of the blessed Trinity may stand with saluation Diuers Protestants haue taught that the Roman Church erreth in fundamentall points But D. Potter and others teach the contrary which could not happen if they could agree what be fundamentall points You brand the Donatists with the note of an Error in the matter (y) pag. 126 and nature of it properly hereticall because they taught that the Church remained only with them in the part of Donatus And yet many Protestants are so far from holding that Doctrine to be a fundamentall error that themselues goe further and say that for diuers ages before Luther there was no true visible Church at all It is then too too apparent that you haue no agreement in specifying what be fundamentall points neither haue you any meanes to determine what they be for if you haue any such meanes why do you not agree You tell vs the Creed containes all points fundamentall which although it were true yet you see it serues not to bring you to a particuler knowledge and agreement in such points And no wonder For besides what I haue said already in the beginning of this Chapter am to deliuer more at large in the next after so much labour and paperspent to proue that the Creed coÌ„taynes all fundamentall points you conclude It remaines (a) pag. 241. very probable that the Creed is the perfect Summary of those fundament all truths wherof consists the Vnity of fayth and of the Catholique Church Very probable Then according to all good Logick the contrary may remaine very probable and so all remaine as full of vncertainty as before The whole Rule say you the fol Iudge of your faith must be Scripture Scripture doth indeed deliuer diuine Truths but feldome doth qualify them or declare whether they be or be not absolutly necessary to saluation You fall (b) pag. 215 heauy vpon Charity Mistaken because he demands a particuler Catalogue of fundamental points which yet you are obliged in conscience to doe if you be able For without such a Catalogue no man can be assured whether or no he haue fayth sufficient to Saluation And therefore take it not in ill part if we agayne and agayne demand such a Catalogue And that you may see we proceed fairely I will performe on our behalfe what we request of you do heer deliuer a Catalogue wherein are comprized all points by vs taught to be necessary to Saluation in these wordes We are obliged vnder payne of damnation to belieue whatsoeuer the Catholique visible Church of Christ proposeth as renealed by Almighty God If any be of another mind all Catholiques denounce him to be no Catholique But inough of this And I go forward with the Infallibility of the Church in all points 20. For euen out of your owne doctrine that the Church cannot erre in points necessary to saluation any wise man will infer that it behooues all who haue care of their soules not to forsake her in any one point 1. Because they are assured that although her doctrine proued not to be true in some point yet euen according to D. Potter the error cannot be fundamentall nor destructiue of fayth and saluation neither can they be accused of any least imprudence in erring if it were possible with the vniuersall Church Secondly since she is vnder paine
Communion of Christs visible Church and by that separation became guilty of Schisme And that they are properly Schismatiques cleerely followeth from the grounds which we haue layed concerning the nature of Schisme which consists in leauing the externall Cummunion of the visible Church of Christ our Lord and it is cleere by euidence of fact that Luther and his followers forsooke the Communion of that Ancient Church For they did not so much as pretend to ioyne with any Congregation which had a being before their time for they would needs conceiue that no visible Company was free from errours in doctrine and corruption in practise And therfore they opposed the doctrine they withdrew their obedience from the Prelates they left participation in Sacraments they changed the Liturgy of publique seruice of whatsoeuer Church then extant And these things they pretended to do out of a perswasion that they were bound forsooth in conscience so to do vnlesse they would participate with errors corruptions superstitions We dare not sayth D. Potter communicate (a) pag. 68. with Rome either in her publique Liturgy which is manifestly polluted with grosse superstition c. or in those corrupt and vngrounded opinions which she hath added to the Fayth of Catholiques But now let D. Potter tell me with what visible Church extant before Luther he would haue aduentured to communicate in her publique Liturgy and Doctrine since he durst not communicate with Rome He will not be able to assigne any euen with any litle colour of common sense If then they departed from all visible Communities professing Christ it followeth that they also left the Communion of the true visible Church which soeuer it was whether that of Rome or any other of which Point I do not for the present dispute Yea this the Lutherans do not only acknowledge but proue and brag of If sayth a learned Lutheran there had been right (b) Georgius Minus in Augustan Confess art 7. de Eccles pag. 137. belieuers which went before Luther in his office there had then been no need of a Lutheran Reformation Another affirmeth it to be ridiculous to thinke that in the time (c) Benedict Morgēstern tract de Eccles pag. 145. before Luther any had the purity of Doctrine and that Luther should receiue it from them and not they from Luther Another speaketh roundly and sayth it is impudency to say that many learned men (d) Conrad Schlusselb in Theolog. Caluinist lib. 2. Jol. 130. in Gormany before Luther did hold the Doctrine of the Gospell And I add That far greater impudency it were to affirme that Germany did not agree with the rest of Europe and other Christian Catholique Nations and consequently that it is the greatest impudency to deny that he departed from the Communion of the visible Catholique Church spread ouer the whole world We haue heard Caluin saying of Protestants in generall We were euen forced (e) Ep. 141. to make a separation from the whole world And Luther of himself in particular In the beginning (f) In praefar operum suorum I was alone Ergo say I by your good leaue you were at least a Schismatique deuided from the Ancient Church and a member of no new Church For no sole man can constitute a Church thogh he could yet such a Church could not be that glorious company of whose number greatnesse and amplitude so much hath been spoken both in the old Testament in the New 13. D. Potter endeauours to auoide this euident Argumēt by diuers euasions but by the confutation thereof I will with Gods holy assistance take occasion euen out of his owne Answers and grounds to bring vnanswerable reasons to conuince them of Schisme 14. His chiefe Answere is That they haue not left the Church but her Corruptions 15. I reply This answere may be giuen eyther by those furious people who teach that those abuses and corruptions in the Church were so enormous that they could not stand with the nature or being of a true Church of Christ Or else by those other more calme Protestants who affirme that those errours did not destroy the being but only deforme the beauty of the Church Against both these sorts of men I may fitly vse that vnanswerable Dilemma which S. Augustine brings against the Donatists in these concluding words Tell me whether the (g) Lib. 2. cont epist. Gaudent c. ◠Church at that tyme when you say she entertayned those who were guilty of all crimes by the contagion of those sinnefull persons perished or perished not Answere whether the Church perished or perished not Make choyce of what you thinke If then she perished what Church brought forth Donatus we may say Luther But if she could not perish because so many were incorporated into her without Baptisme that is without a secōd baptisme or rebaptization I may say without Luthers reformation answere me I pray you what madnes did moue the Sect of Donatus to separate themselues from her vpō pretence to auoid the Cōmunion of bad men I beseech the Reader to pōder euery one of S. Augustine words to consider whether anything could haue been spoken more directly against Luther his followers of what sort soeuer 16. And now to answere more in particular I say to those who teach that the visible Church of Christ perished for many Ages that I can easily affoard them the courtesy to free them from meere Schisme but all men touched with any sparke of zeale to vindicate the wisedome and Goodnes of our Sauiour from blasphemous iniury cannot choose but belieue and proclaime them to be superlatiue Arch-heretiques Neuertheles if they will needs haue the honour of Singularity and desire to be both formall Heretiques properly Schismatiques I will tell them that while they dreame of an inuisible Church of men which agreed with them in Fayth they will vpon due reflection find themselues to be Schismatiques from those corporeal Angels or inuisible men because they held external Communion with the visible Church of those times the outward Cōmunion of which visible Church these moderne hot-spurs forsaking were therby diuided frō the outward Communion of their hidden Brethren so are Separatists from the external Communion of them with whome they agree in fayth which is Schisme in the most formall and proper signification thereof Moreouer according to D. Potter these boysterous Creatures are properly Schismatiques For the reason why he thinks himselfe and such as he is to be cleared from Schisme notwithstanding their diuision from the Roman Church is because according to his Diuinity the property of (h) Pag. 76. Schisme is witnesse the Donatists and Luciferians to cut off from the Body of Christ and the hope of Saluation the Church from which it separats But those Protestants of whome we now speake cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of Saluation the Church from which they separated themselues and they doe it directly as
the Donatists in whome you exeÌ„plify did by affirming that the true Church had perished and therefore they cannot be cleared from Schisme if you may be their Iudge Consider I pray you how many prime Protestants both domesticall and forraine you haue at one blow strucke off from hope of Saluation and condemned to the lowest pit for the grieuous sinne of Schisme And withall it imports you to consider that you also inuolue your selfe and other moderate Protestants in the selfe same crime and punishment while you communicate with those who according to your owne principles are properly and formally Schismatiques For if you held your selfe obliged vnder paine of damnation to forsake the Communion of the Roman Church by reason of her Errors and Corruptions which yet you confesse were not fundamentall shall it not be much more damnable for you to liue in Communion and Confraternity with those who defend an errour of the fayling of the Church which in the Donatists you confesse (i) pag. 12â— to haue been properly hereticall against the Article of our Creed I belieue the Church And I desire the Reader heer to apply an authority of S. Cyprian ep 76. which he shall find alledged in the next number And this may suffice for confutation of the aforesaid Answere as it might haue relation to the rigid Caluinists 17. For Confutation of those Protestants who hold that the Church of Christ had alwayes a being and cannot erre in points fundamentall and yet teach that she may erre in matters of lesse moment wherin if they forsake her they would be accounted not to leaue the Church but only her corruptions I must say that they change the state of our present Question not distinguishing between internall Fayth and externall Communion nor between Schisme and Heresy This I demonstrate out of D. Potter himselfe who in expresse words teacheth that the promises which our Lord hath made (k) pa. 151. vnto his Church for his assistance are intended not to any particular Persons or Churches but only to the Church Catholique and they are to be extended not to euery parcel or particularity of truth but only to points of Faith or fundamentall And afterwards speaking of the Vniuersall Church he sayth It 's comfort (l) pag. 155. inough for the Church that the Lord in mercy will secure her from all capitall dangers and conserue her on earth against all enemies but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and errour till she be in heauâ—n Out of which words I obserue that according to D. Potter the selfe same Church which is the Vniuersall Church remayning the vniuersall true Church of Christ may fall into errors and corruptions from whence it cleerely followeth that it is impossible to leaue the Externall communion of the Church so corrupted and retaine externall communion with the Catholique Church since the Church Catholique and the Church so corrupted is the selfe same one Church or company of men And the contrary imagination talkes in a dreame as if the errors and infections of the Catholique Church were not inherent in her but were separate from her like to Accidents without any Subiect or rather indeed as if they were not Accidents but Hypostases or Persons subsisting by themselues For men cannot be said to liue in or out of the Communion of any dead creature but with Persons endued with life and reason and much lesse can men be said to liue in the Communion of Accidents as errors and corruptions are and therfore it is an absurd thing to affirme that Protestants diuided theÌ„selues from the corruptions of the Church but not from the Church herselfe seing the corruptions of the Church were inherent in the Church All this is made more cleere if we consider that when Luther appeared there were not two distinct visible true Catholique Churches holding contrary Doctrines and diuided in externall Communion one of the which two Churches did triumph ouer all error and corruption in doctrine and practise but the other was stained with both For to faigne this diuersity of two Churches cannot stand with record of histories which are silent of any such matter It is against D. Potters owne grounds that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall which were not true if you will imagine a certaine visible Catholique Church free from error euen in points not fundamentall It contradicteth the words in which he said the Church may not hope to triumph ouer all error till she be in heauen It euacuateth the brag of Protestants that Luther reformed the whole Church and lastly it maketh Luther a Schismatique for leauing the CoÌ„munion of all visible Churches seeing vpon this supposition there was a visible Church of Christ free from al corruption which therefore could not be forsaken without iust imputation of Schisme We must therefore truly affirme that since there was but one visible Church of Christ which was truly Catholique and yet was according to Protestants stained with corruption when Luther left the external CoÌ„munion of that corrupted Church he could not remaine in the Communion of the Catholique Church no more then it is possible to keep company with Christopher Potter and not keepe company with the Prouost of Queenes Colledge in Oxford if D. Potter and the Prouost be one and the selfe same man For so one should be and not be with him at the same time This very argument drawne from the Vnity of God's Church S. Cyprian v rgeth to conuince that Nouatianus was cut off from the Church in these words The Church is (m) Epist. 16. ad Mag. One which being One cannot be both within and without If she be with Nouatianus she was not with Cornelius But if she were with cornelius who succeeded Fabianus by lawfull ordination Nouatianus is not in the Church I purposely heere speak only of externall CoÌ„munion with the Catholique Church For in this point there is great difference between internall acts of our Vnderstanding and will and of externall deeds Our Vnderstanding and Will are faculties as Philosophers speake abstractiue and able to distinguish and as it were to part things though in themselues they be really conioyned But reall externall deeds do take things in grosse as they find them not separating things which in reality are ioyned together Thus one may consider and loue a sinner as he is a man frieÌ„d benefactor or the like and at the same time not consider him nor loue him as he is a sinner because these are acts of our Vnderstanding and Will which may respect their obiects vnder some one formality or consideration without reference to other things contained in the selfe same obiects But if one should strike or kill a sinnefull man he will not be excused by alledging that he killed him not as a man but as a sinner because the selfe same person being a man and the sinner the externall act of murder fell iointly vpon the man the sinner And
for the same reason one cannot auoide the company of a sinner and at the same time be really present with that man who is a sinner And this is our case and in this our Aduersaries are egregiously and many of them affectedly mistaken For one may in some points belieue as the Church belieueth and disagree from her in other One may loue the truth which she holds and detest her pretended corruptions But it is impossible that a man should really separate himselfe from her externall Communion as she is corrupted and be really within the same externall Communion as she is sound because she is the selfe same Church which is supposed to be sound in some things and to erre in others Now our question for the present doth concerne only this point of externall Communion because Schisme as it is distinguâ—â—hed from Heresy is committed when one diuides himselfe from the Externall Communion of that Church with which he agrees in Fayth Wheras Heresy doth necessarily imply a difference in matter of Fayth and beliefe and therfore to say that they left not the visible Church but her errors can only excuse them from Heresy which shall be tried in the next Chapter but not from Schisme as long as they are really druided from the Externall Communion of the selfe same visible Church which notwithstanding those errors wherin they do in iudgment dissent from her doth still remaine the true Catholique Church of Christ and therfore while they forsake the corrupted Church they forsake the Catholique Church Thus then it remaineth cleere that their chiefest Answere changeth the very state of the Question confoundeth internall acts of the Vnderstanding with externall Deeds doth not distinguish between Schisme and Heresy and leaues this demonstrated against them That they diuided themselues from the Communion of the visible Catholique Church because they conceaued that she needed Reformation But whether this pretence of Reformation will acquit them of Schisme I refer to the vnpartiall Iudges heretofore (n) Num. 8. alledged as to S. Irenaeus who plainely sayth They cannot make any so important REFORMATION as the Euill of the Schisme is pernicious To S. Denis of Alexandria saying Certainely all things should be indured rather then to consent to the diuision of the Church of God those Martyrs being no lesse glorious that expose themselues to hinder the dismembring of the Church then those that suffer rather then they will offer sacrifice to Idols To S. Augustine who tels vs That not to heare the Church is a more grieuous thing then if he were striken with the sword consumed with flames exposed to wild beasts And to conclude all in few wordes he giueth this generall prescription There is no iust necessity to diuide Vnity And D. Potter may remember his owne words There neither was (s) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But I haue shewed that Luther and the rest departed from the Church of Christ if Christ had any Church vpon earth Therfore there could be no iust cause of Reformation or what else soeuer to do as they did and therfore they must be contented to be held for Schismatiques 18 Moreouer I demaund whether those corruptions which moued them to forsake the Communion of the visible Church were in manners or doctrine Corruption in manners yields no sufficient cause to leaue the Church otherwise men must go not onely out of the Church but out of the world as the Apostle (t) 1. Cor. 5.10 sayth Our blessed Sauiour foretold that there would be in the Church tares with choice corne sinners with iust men If then Protestants waxe zealous with the Seruants to plucke vp the weeds let them first harken to the wisdome of the Maister Let both grow vp And they ought to imitate them who as S. Augustine saith tolerate for the (u) Ep. 162. good of Vnity that which they detest for the good of equity And to whome the more frequent and foule such scandals are by so much the more is the merit of their perseuerance in the Communion of the Church and the Martyrdome of their patience as the same Saint cals it If they were offended with the life of some Ecclesiasticall persons must they therefore deny obedience to their Pastours and finally breake with Gods Church The Pastour of Pastours teacheth vs another lesson Vpon the Chaire of Moyses (w) Mat. 33. haue sitten the Scribes Pharises All thinges therefore whatsoeuer they shall say to you obserue yee doe yee but according to their workes do yee not Must people except agaynst lawes and reuolt from Magistrates because some are negligent or corrupt in the execution of the same lawes and performance of their office If they intended Reformation of manners they vsed a strange meanes for the achieuing of such an end by denying the necessity of Confession laughing at austerity of pennance condemning the vowes of Chastity pouerty obedience breaking fasts c. And no lesse vnfit were the Men then the Meanes I loue not recrimination But it is well knowne to how great crimes Luther Caluin Zwinglius Beza and other of the prime Reformers were notorioussy obnoxious as might be easily demonstrated by the only transcribing of what others haue deliuered vpon that subiect whereby it would appeare that they were very farre from being any such Apostolicall men as God is wont to vse in so great a worke And whereas they were wont especially in the beginning of their reuolt maliciously to exaggerate the faults of some Clergy men Erasmus said well Epist ad fratres inferioris Germaniae Let the riot lust ambition auarice of Priests and whatsoeuer other crimes be gathered together Heresy alone doth exceed all this filthy lake of vices Besides nothing at all was omitted by the sacred Councell of Trent which might tend to reformation of manners And finally the vices of others are not hurtfull to any but such as imitate and consent to them according to the saying of S. Augustine We conserue (y) De vnit Eccles c. 2â— innocency not by knowing the ill deeds of men but by not yielding consent to such as we know and by not iudging rashly of such faults as we know not If you answere that not corruption in manners but the approbation of them doth yield sufficient cause to leaue the Church I reply with S. Augustine That the Church doth as the pretended Reformers ought to haue done tolerate or beare with scandals and corruptions but neither doth nor can approue them The Church sayth he being placed (z) Ep. 116. betwixt much chaffe and cockle doth beare with many things but doth not approue nor dissemble nor act those things which are against fayth and good life But because to approue corruption in manners as lawfull were an errour against Fayth it belongs to corruption in doctrine which was the second part of my demaund 19. Now then that
corruptions in doctrine I still speake vpon the vntrue supposition of our Aduersaries could not affoard any sufficieÌ„t cause or colourable necessity to depart from that visible Church which was extant when Luther rose I demonstrate out of D. Potters own confession that the Catholique Church neither hath nor can erre in points fundamentall as we shewed out of his owne expresse words which he also of set purpose deliuereth in diuers other places and all they are obliged to maintaine the same who teach that Christ had alwayes a visible Church vpon earth because any one fundamentall error ouerthrowes the being of a true Church Now as Schoolemen speake it is implicatio in terminis a contradiction so plaine that one word destroyeth the other as if one should say a liuing dead man to affirme that the Church doth not erre in points necessary to saluation or damnably yet that it is damnable to remaine in her Communion because she teacheth errors which are confessed not to be damnable For if the error be not damnable nor against any fundamentall Article of Fayth the beliefe therof cannot be damnable But D. Potter teacheth that the Catholique Church cannot and that the Roman Church hath not erred against any fundamentall Article of Fayth Therfore it cannot be damnable to remaine in her Communion and so the pretended corruptions in her doctrine could not induce any obligation to depart from her Communion nor could excuse them from Schisme who vpon preteÌ„ce of necessity in point of conscience forsooke her And D. Potter will neuer be able to salue a manifest contradiction in these his words To depart from the Church (a) Pag. 75. of Rome in some Doctrine and practises there might be necessary cause though she wanted nothing necessary to saluation For if notwithstanding these doctrines and practises she wanted nothing necessary to saluation how could it be necessary to saluation to forsake her And therfore we must still coÌ„ clude that to forsake her was properly an act of Schisme 20. From the selfe same ground of the infallibility of the Church in all fundamentall points I argue after this manner The visible Church cannot be forsaken without damnation vpon pretence that it is damnable to remaine in her Communion by reason of corruption in doctrine as long as for the truth of her Fayth and beliefe she performeth the duty which she oweth to God and her Neighbour As long as she performeth what our Sauiour exacts at her hands as long as she doth as much as lies in her power to do But euen according to D Potters Assertions the Church performeth all these things as long as she erreth not in points fundamentall although she were supposed to erre in other points not fundamentall Therefore the Communion of the Visible Church cannot be forsaken without damnatioÌ„ vpon pretence that it is damnable to remaine in her Communion by reason of corruption in doctrine The Maior or first Proposition of it selfe is euident The Minor or second Proposition doth necessarily fellow out of D. Potters owne doctrine aboue rehearsed That the promises of our Lord made to his Church for his assistance are to be (b) Pag. 151. extended only to points of Fayth or fundamentall Let me note heer by the way that by his Or he seemes to exclude from Fayth all points which are not fundamentall so we may deny innumerable Texts of Scripture That It is (c) pag. 155. comfort inough for the Church that the Lord in mercy will secure her from all capitall dangers c. but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and error till she be in heauen For it is euident that the Church for as much as concernes the truth of her doctrines and beliefe owes no more duty to God and her Neighbour neither doth our Sauiour exact more at her hands nor is it in her power to do more then God doth assist her to doe which assistaÌ„ce is promised only for points fundamentall and consequently as long as she teacheth no fundamentall error her CoÌ„munion cannot without damnation be forsakeÌ„ And we may fitly apply against D. Potter a Concionatory declamation which he makes against vs where he sayth (d) pag. 221. May the Church of after Ages make the narrow way to heauen narrowier then our Sauiour left it c since he himselfe obligeth men vnder paine of damnation to forsake the Church by reason of errours against which our Sauiour thought it needles to promise his assistance and for which he neither denieth his grace in this life or glory in the next Will D. Potter oblige the Church to do more then she may euen hope for or to performe on earth that which is proper to heauen alone 21. And as from your owne doctrine concerning the infallibility of the Church in fundamentall points we haue proued that it was a grieuous sinne to forsake her so doe we take a strong argument from the fallibility of any who dare pretend to reforme the Church which any man in his wits will belieue to be indued with at last as much infallibility as priuate men can challenge and D. Potter expressely affirmeth that Christs promises of his assistance are not intended (e) Pag. 1â—1 to any particuler persons or Churches and therefore to leaue the Church by reason of errours was at the best hand but to flit from one erring company to another without any new hope of triumphing ouer errours and without necessity or vtility to forsake that Communion of which S. Augustine sayth There is (f) Ep. conâ— Parmen lth 2. çap. 11. no iust necessity to diuide Vnity Which will appeare to be much more euident if we coÌ„sider that though the Church had maintained some false doctrines yet to leaue her Communion to remedy the old were but to add a new increase of errors arising from the innumerable disagreements of Sectaries which must needs bring with it a mighty masse of falshoods because the truth is but one indiuisible And this reason is yet stronger if we still remember that euen according to D. Potter the visible Church hath a blessing not to erre in points fundamentall in which any priuate Reformer may faile and therfore they could not pretend any necessity to forsake that Church out of whose Communion they were exposed to danger of falling into many more and euen into damnable errors Remember I pray you what your selfe affirmes Pag. 69. where speaking of our Church and yours you say All the difference is from the weeds which remaine there and beere are taken away Yet neither heere perfectly nor euery where alike Behold a faire coÌ„fession of corruptioÌ„s still remayning in your Church which you can only excuse by saying they are not fundameÌ„tal as like wise those in the Roman Church are confessed to be not fundamentall What man of iudgment wil be a Protestant since that Church is confessedly a corrupt One 22. I still proceed to impugne you expresly vpon your grounds
You say that it is comfort inough for the Church that the Lord in merey will secure her from all capitall dangers but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and errour till she be in heauen Now if it be comfort inough to be secured from all capital daÌ„gers which can arise only from errour in fundamentall points why were not your first Reformers content with Inough but would needs dismeÌ„ber the Church out of a pernicious greedines of more then Inough For this Inough which according to you is attained by not erring in points not fundameÌ„tal was enioyed before Luthers reformation vnlesse you will now against your selfe affirme that loÌ„g before Luther there was no Church free from errour in fundamental points Moreouer if as you say no Church may hope to triumph ouer all errour till she be in heauâ—n You must eyther grant that errours not fundamentall cannot yield sufficieÌ„t cause to forsake the Church or els you must affirme that all Communities may ought to be forsaken so there wil be no end of Schismes or rather indeed there can be no such thinge as Schisme because according to you all Communities are subiect to errours not fundamentall for which if they may be lawfully forsaken it followeth cleerely that it is not Schisme to forsake them Lastly since it is not lawfull to leaue the Communion of the Church for abuses in life and manners because such miseries cannot be auoided in this world of temptation and since according to your Assertion no Church may hope to triumph oner all sinne and errour You must grant that as she ought not to be left by reason of sinne so neyther by reason of errours not fundamental because both sinne errour are according to you impossible to be auoided til she be in heaueÌ„ 23. Furthermore I aske whether it be the Quantity or Number or Quality and Greatnes of doctrinall errours that may yield sufficient cause to relinquish the Churches Communion I proue that neyther Not the Quality which is supposed to be beneath the degree of points fundamentall or necessary to saluation Not the Quantity or Number For the foundation is strong inough to support all such vnnecessary additions as you terme them And if they once weighed so heauy as to ouerthrow the foundation they should grow to fundamentall errors into which your selfe teach the Church cannot fall Hay and stubble say you and such (g) pag. 153. vnprofitable stuff laid on the roofe destroies not the howse whilest the maine pillars are standing on the foundation And tell vs I pray you the precise number of errors which cannot be tolerated I know you cannot do it and therfore being vncertaine whether or no you haue cause to leaue the Church you are certainely obliged not to forsake her Our blessed Sauiour hath declared his will that we forgiue a priuate offender seauenty seauen times that is without limitation of quantity of time or quality of trespasses and why then dare you alledge his commaund that you must not pardon his Church for errors acknowledged to be not fundamentall What excuse can you faigne to your selues who for points not necessary to saluation haue been occasions causes and authors of so many mischiefes as could not but vnaucydably accompany so huge a breach in kingdomes in Common wealths in priuate persons in publique Magistrates in body in soule in goods in lise in Church in the state by Schismes by rebellions by war by famine by plague by bloudshed by all sorts of imaginable calamities vpon the whole face of the Earth wherin as in a map of Desolation the heauines of your crime appeares vnder which the world doth pant 24. To say for your excuse that you left not the Church but her errors doth not extenuate but aggrauate your sinne For by this deuise you sow seeds of endles Schismes put into the mouth of all Separatists a ready answere how to auoide the note of Schisme from your Protestant Church of England or from any other Church whatsoeuer They will I say answere as you do prompt that your Church may be forsaken if she fall into errors though they be not fundamentall And further that no Church must hope to be free from such errors which two grounds being once laid it will not be hard to infer the consequence that she may be forsaken 25. From some other words of D. Potter I like wise proue that for Errors not fundamentall the Church ought not to be forsaken There neither was sayth he nor can be (h) Pag. 5. any iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe To depart from a particular Church namely from the Church of Rome in some doctrines and practises there might be iust and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to saluation Marke his doctrine that there can be no iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ and yet he teacheth that the Church of Christ may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore say I we cannot forsake the Roman Church for points not fundamental for then we might also forsake the Church of Christ which your selfe deny and I pray you consider whether you do not plainely contradict your selfe while in the words aboue recited you say there can be no iust cause to forsake the Catholique Church and yet that there may be necessary cause to depart from the Church of Rome since you grant that the Church of Christ may erre in points not fundamentall that the Roman Church hath erred only in such points as by and by we shall see more in particular And thus much be said to disproue their chiefest Answere that they left not the Church but her Corruptions 26. Another euasion D. Potter bringeth to auoid the imputation of Schisme and it is because they still acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Member of the body of Christ and not cut off from the hope of saluation And this sayth he cleares vs from (i) pag. 76. the imputation of Schisme whose property it is to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates 27. This is an Answere which perhaps you may get some one to approue if first you can put him out of his wits For what prodigious doctrines are these Those Protestants who belieue that the Church erred in points necessary to saluation and for that cause left her cannot be excused from damnable Schisme But others who belieued that she had no damnable errors did very well yea were obliged to forsake her and which is more miraculous or rather monstrous they did well to forsake her formally and precisely because they iudged that she retained all meanes necessary to saluation I say because they so iudged For the very reason for which he acquitteth himselfe and condemneth those others as Schismatiques is because he holdeth that the Church which both of them forsooke is
doe not separate themselues from the Society of the infected persons how do they free themselues depart from the common disease Do they at the same tyme remaine in the company and yet depart from those infected creatures We must then say that they separate themselues from the persons though it be by occasion of the disease Or if you say they free their owne persons frō the common disease yet so that they remaine still in the Company infected subiect to the Superiours and Gouernours thereof eating drinking keeping publique Assemblies with them you cannot but know that Luther and your Reformers the first pretended free persons from the supposed common infectiō of the Roman Church did not so for they endeauoured to force the Society whereof they were parts to be healed and reformed as they were and if it refused they did when they had forces driue them away euen their Superiours both spirituall and temporall as is notorious Or if they had not power to expell that supposed infected Community or Church of that place they departed from them corporally whome mentally they had forsaken before So that you cannot deny but Luther forsooke the external Cōmunion and Company of the Catholique Church for which as your selfe (z) Pag. 75. confesse There neyther was nor can be any iust cause no more then to depart from Christ himselfe We do therfore inferre that Luther and the rest who forsooke that visible Church which they found vpon earth were truly and properly Schismatiques 35. Moreouer it is euident that there was a diuision betweene Luther and that Church which was Visible when he arose but that Church cannot be sayed to haue deuided her selfe from him before whose tyme she was in comparison of whome she was a Whole and he but a part therefore we must say that he deuided himselfe went out of her which is to be a Schismatique or Heretique or both By this argument Optatus Meliuitanus proueth that not Caecilianus but Parmenianus was a Schismatique saying For Caecilianus went (a) Lib. 1. cont Parm. not out of Maiorinus thy Grandfather but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neyther did Caecilianus depart from the Chayre of Peter or Cyprian but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which had no beginning before Maiorinus Since it manifestly appeareth that these things were acted in this manuer it is cleere that you are heyres both of the deliuerers vp of the holy Bible to be burned and also of Schismatiques The whole argument of this holy Father makes directly both against Luther and all those who continue the diuision which he begun and proues That going out conuinceth those who go out to be Scismatiques but not those from whome they depart That to forsake the Chaire of Peter is Schisme yea that it is Schisme to erect a Chaire which had no origen or as it were predecessour before it selfe That to continue in a diuision begun by others is to be Heires of Schismatiques and lastly that to depart from the Communion of a particuler Church as that of S. Cyprian was is sufficient to make a man incurre the guilt of Schisme and consequently that although Protestants who deny the Pope to be supreme Head of the Church do thinke by that Heresy to cleere Luther frō Schisme in disobeying the Pope Yet that will not serue to free him from Schisme as it importeth a diuision from the obedience or Communion of the particular Bishop Diocesse Church Countrey where he liued 36. But it is not the heresy of Protestants or any other Sectaries that can depriue S. Peter and his Successours of the authority which Christ our Lord conferred vpon them ouer his whole militant Church which is a point confessed by learned Protestants to be of great Antiquity and for which the iudgement of diuers most ancient holy Fathers is reproued by them as may be seen at large in Brereley (b) Tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 10. exactly citing the places of such chiefe Protestants And we must say with S. Cyprian Heresies (c) Epist. 55. haue sprung and Schismes been bred from no other cause then for that the Priest of God is not obeyed nor one Priest and Iudge is cōsidered to be for the time in the Church of God Which words do plainely condemne Luther whether he will vnderstand them as spoken of the Vniuersall or of euery particular Church For he withdrew himselfe both from the obedience of the Pope and of all particular Bishops and Churches And no lesse cleere is the sayd Optatus Meliuitanus saying Thou caust not deny (d) Lib 2. cont Parm. but that thou knowest that in the Citty of Rome there was first an Episcopall Chaire placed for Peter wherin Peter the head of all the Apost es sat wherof also he was called Cephas in which one Chaire Vnity was to be kept by all least the other Apostles might attribute to themselues ech one his particular Chaire and that he should be a Schismatique and sinner who against that one single Chaire should erect another Many other Authorities of Fathers might be alledged to this purpose which I omit my intention being not to handle particular controuersies 37. Now the arguments which hitherto I haue brought proue that Luther and his followers were Schismatiques without examining for as much as belonges to this point whether or no the Church can erre in any one thing great or small because it is vniuersally true that there can be no iust cause to forsake the Communion of the Visible Church of Christ according to S. Augustine saying It is not possible (e) Ep. 48. that any may haue iust cause to separate their Communion from the Communion of the whole world and call themselues the Church of Christ as if they had separated themselues from the Communion of all Nations vpon iust cause But since indeed the Church cannot erre in any one point of doctrine nor can approue any corruption in manners they cannot with any colour auoid the iust imputation of eminent Schisme according to the verdict of the same holy Father in these words The most manifest (f) De Bapt. Lib. 5. ç. 1. sacriledge of Schisme is eminent when there was no cause of separation 38. Lastly I proue that Protestants cannot auoid the note of Schisme at least by reason of their mutuall separation from one another For most certaine it is that there is very great difference for the outward face of a Church and profession of a different fayth between the Lutherans the rigid Caluinists and the Protestants of England So that if Luther were in the right those other Protestants who inuented Doctrines far different from his and diuided themselues from him must be reputed Schismatiques the like argument may proportionably be applied to their further diuisions and subdiuisions Which reason I yet vrge more strongly out of D Potter (g) pag. 20. who affirmes that to him to such as are conuicted in conscience of the
And therefore eyther Christ had no visible Church vpon Earth or else you must grant that it was the Church of Rome A truth so manifest that those ProtestaÌ„ts who affirme the Roman Church to haue lost the Nature being of a true Church do by ineuitable Consequence grant that for diuers Ages Christ had no visible Church on Earth from which errour because D. Potter disclaymeth he must of necessity maintaine that the Roman Church is free from fundamentall and damnable errour and that she is not cut of from the Body of Christ and the Hope of Saluation And if saith he any Zelots amongst vs haue proceeded (h) Jhid to heauier censures their zeale may be excused but their Charity and wisedome cannot be iustifyed 48. And to touch particulars which perhaps some may obiect No man is ignorant that the Grecians euen the Schismaticall Grecians do in most points agree with Roman Catholiques disagree from the Protestant Reformation They teach Transubstantiation which point D. Potter also (i) Pag. 229. confesseth Inuocation of Saints and Angels veneration of Reliques and Images Auricular Confession enioyned Satisfaction Confirmation with Chrisme Extreme-vnction All the seauen Sacraments Prayer Sacrifice Almes for the dead Monachisme That Priests may not marry after their Ordination In which points that the Grecians agree with the Roman Church appeareth by a Treatise published by the Protestant Deusnes of Wittemberg intituled Acta Theologorum Wittembergensium Icremiae Patriarchae Constantinop de Augustana Confesaone c. Wittembergae anno 1584. by the Protestant (k) De statu Eccles pag. 233. Crispinus by Syr Edwin Sands in the Relation of the State of Religion of the West And I wonder with what colour of truth to say no worse D. Potter could affirme that the Doctrines debated between the Protestats (l) pag. 22â— Rome are only the partiall particular fancies of the Roman Church vnlesse happily the opinion of TransubstaÌ„tiation may be excepted wherin the latter Grecians seene to agree with the Romanists Beside the Protestant Authors already cited Petrus Arcudius a Grecian and a learned Catholique Writer hath published a large Volume the Argument and Title wherof is Of the agreement of the Roman and Greeke Church in the seauen Sacraments As for the Heresy of the Grecians that the Holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonne I suppose that Protestants disauow them in that errour as we doe 49. D. Potter will not I thinke so much wrong his reputation as to tell vs that the Waldenses Wicctiffe Husse or the like were Protestants because in some things they disagreed from Catholiques For he well knowes that the example of such men is subiect to these manifest exceptions They were not of all Ages nor in all Countries but confined to certaine places and were interrupted in Time against the notion and nature of the word Catholique They had no Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy nor Succession of Bishops Priests and Pastours They differed among themselues and from Protestants also They agreed in diuers things with vs against Protestants They held doctrines manifestly absurd and damnable heresies 50. The Waldenses begun not before the yeare 1218. so far were they from Vniuersality of all Ages For their doctrine first they denied all Iudgments which extended to the drawing of bloud and the Sabbaoth for which cause they were called In-sabbatists Secondly they taught that Lay men and women might consecrate the Sacrament and preach no doubt but by this meanes to make their Maister Waldo a meere lay man capable of such functions Thirdly that Clergy men ought to haue no possessions or proprieties Fourthly that there should be no diuision of Parishes nor Churches for a walled Church they reputed as a barne Fiftly that men ought not to take an oath in any case Sixtly that those persons sinned mortally who accompanied without hope of issue Seauenthly they held all things done aboue the girdle by kissing touching words compression of the breasts c. to be done in Charity and not against Continency Eightly that neither Priest nor ciuill Magistrate being guilty of mortall sinne did enioy their dignity or were to be obeyed Ninthly they condemned Princes and Iudges Tenthly they affirmed singing in the Church to be an hellish clamor Eleauenthly they taught that men might dissemble their Religion and so accordingly they went to Catholique Churches dissembling their Fayth and made Offertories confessions and communions after a dissembling manner Waldo was so vnlearned that sayth (m) Act. Mon. pag. 628. Fox he gaue rewards to certaine learned men to translate the holy Scripture for him and being thus holpen did as the same Fox there reporteth confer the forme of religion in his time to the infallible word of God A godly example for such as must needs haue the Scripture in English to be read by euery simple body with such fruit of godly doctrine as we haue seen in the foresaid grosse heresies of Waldo The followers of Waldo were like their Maister so vnlearned that some of them sayth (n) Ibid. Fox expounded the words Ioan. 1. Suieum non receperunt Swyne did not receiue him And to conclude they agreed in diuers things with Catholiques against Protestants as may be seene in (o) Tract 2. cap. 2. sect subd 3. Brereley 51. Neither can it be pretended that these are slanders forged by Catholiques For besides that the same things are testified by Protestant Writers as Illyrâ—cus Cowper others our Authours cannot be suspected of partiality in disfauour of Protestants vnles you will say perhaps that they were Prophets and some hundred yeares agoe did both foresee that there were to be Protestants in the world and that such Protestants were to be like the Waldenses Besides from whence but from our Histories are Protestants come to know that there were any such men as the Waldenses and that in some points they agreed with the Protestants and disagreed from them in others And vpon what ground can they belieue our Authours for that part wherin the Waldenses were like to Protestants and imagine they lyed in the rest 52. Neither could Wicliffe continue a Church neuer interrupted from the time of the Waldenses after whom he liued more then one hundred and fifty yeares to wit the yeare 1371. He agreed with Catholiques about the worshipping of Reliques and Images and about the Intercession of our blessed Lady the euer Immaculate Mother of God he went so far as to say It seemes to me (p) In serm de Assump Marte impossible that we should be rewarded without the intercession of the Virgin Mary He held seauen Saciaments Purgatory and other points And against both Catholiques and Protestants he maintained sundry damnable doctrines as diuers Protestant Writers relate As first If a Bishop or Priest be in deadly sinne he doth not indeed either giue Orders Consecrate or Baptize Secondly That Ecclesiasticall Ministers ought not to haue any temporall possessions nor propriety in any thing but should
veniall ob leuit atem materiae because they may happen to be exercised in a matter of small consideration as for example to steale a penny is veniall although theft in his kind be a deadly sinne But it is likewise true that this Rule is not generall for all sorts of sinnes there being some so inexcusably wicked of their owne nature that no smalnes of matter nor paucity in number can defend them from being deadly sinnes For to giue an instance what Blasphemy against God or voluntary false Oath is not a deadly sinne Certainely none at all although the saluation of the whole world should depend vpon swearing such a falshood The like hapneth in our present case of Heresy the iniquity wherof redoundin to the iniury of God's supreme wisdom Goodnes is alwayes great enormous They were no precious stones which Danid (n) 1. Reg. 17. pickt out of the water to encounter Golias and yet if a man take from the number but one and say they were but foure against the Scripture affirming them to haue been fiue he is instantly guilty of a damnable sinne Why Because by this subtraction of One he doth depriue Gods word and Testimony of all credit and infallibility For if either he could deceiue or be deceiued in any one thing it were but wisdome to suspect him in all And seing euery Heresy opposeth some Truth reuealed by God it is no wonder that no one can be excused from deadly and damnable sinne For if voluntary Blasphemy and Periury which are opposite only to the infused Morall Vertue of Religion can neuer be excused from mortall sinne much lesse can Heresy be excused which opposeth the Theologicall Vertue of Fayth 11. If any obiect that Schisme may seeme to be a greater sinne then Heresy because the Vertue of Charity to which Schisme is opposite is greater then Fayth according to the Apostle saying Now there remaine (o) 1. Cor. 13.13 Fayth Hope Charity but the greater of these is Charity S. Thomas answeres in these words Charity hath two Obiects one principal to wit the Diuine (p) 2.2 q. 39. ar 2. in corp ad 3. Goodnes another secondary namely the good of our Neighbour But Schisme and other sinnes which are committed against our Neighbour are opposite to Charity in respect of this secondary good which is lesse then the obiect of Fayth which is God as he is the Prime Verity on which Fayth doth rely and therfore these sinnes are lesse then Infidelity He takes Infidelity after a generall manner as it comprehends Heresy and other vices against Fayth 12. Hauing therfore sufficiently declared wherin Heresy consists Let vs come to proue that which we proposed in this Chapter Where I desire it be still remembred That the visible Catholique Church cannot erre damnably as D. Potter confesseth And that when Luther appeared there was no other visible true Church of Christ disagreeing from the Roman as we haue demonstrated in the next precedent Chapter 13. Now that Luther his followers cannot be excused from formall Heresy I proue by these reasons To oppose any truth propounded by the visible true Church as reuealed by God is formall Heresy as we haue shewed out of the definition of Heresy But Luther Caluin and the rest did oppose diuers truths propounded by the visible Church as reuealed by God yea they did therfore oppose her because she propounded as diuine reuealed truths things which they iudged either to be false or human inuentions Therfore they committed formall Heresy 14. Moreouer euery Errour agaynst any doctrine reuealed by God is damnable Heresy whether the matter in it selfe be great or small as I proued before and therefore eyther the Protestants or the Roman Church must be guilty of form all Heresy because one of them must erre against the word testimony of God but you grant perforce that the Roman Church doth not erre damnably I add that she cannot erre damnably because she is the truly Catholique Church which you confesse cannot erre damnably Therefore Protestants must be guilty of formall Heresy 15. Besides we haue shewed that the visible Church is Iudge of Controuersies therfore must be infallible in all her Proposalls which being once supposed it manifestly followeth that to oppose what she deliuereth as reuealed by God is not so much to oppose her as God himselfe and therefore cannot be excused from grieuous Heresy 16. Agayne If Luther were an Heretique for those points wherin he disagreed from the Roman Church All they who agree with him in those very points must likewise be Heretiques Now that Luther was a formall Heretique I demonstrate in this manner To say that Gods visible true Church is not vniuersal but confined to one onely place or corner of the world is according to your owne expresse words (q) Tag 126. properly Heresy agaynst that Article of the Creed wherein we orofesse to belieue the holy Catholique Church And you brand Donatus with heresy because he limited the vniuersal Church to Africa But it is manifest and acknowledged by Luther himselfe and other chiefe Protestants that Luthers Reformation when it first began and much more for diuers Ages before was not Vniuersall nor spread ouer the world but was confined to that compasse of ground which did containe Luthers body Therefore his Reformation cannot be excused from formall Heresy If S. Augustine in those times sayd to the Donatists There are innumerable testimonies (r) Epist. 50. of holy Scripture in which it appeareth that the Church of Christ is not onely in Africa as these men with most impudēt vanity do raue but that she is spred ouer the whole earth much more may it be sayd It appeareth by innumerable testimonies of holy Scripture that the Church of Christ cā not be confined to the Citty of Wittemberg or to the place where Luthers feet stood but must be spread ouer the whole world It is therefore must impudent vanity and dotage to limit her to Luthers Reformation In another place also this holy Father writes no lesse effectually agaynst Luther then against the Donatists For hauing out of those words In thy seed all Nations shall be blessed proued that Gods Church must be vniuersal he sayth Why (s) De Vnit. Eccles cap. 6. doe you superadde by saying that Christ remaines heire in no part of the earth except where he may haue Donatus for his Coheyre Giue me this Vniuersall Church if it be among you shew your selues to all Nations which we already shew to be blessed in this Seed Giue vs this Church or else laying aside all fury receyue her from vs. But it is euident that Luther could not when he he said At the beginning I was alone giue vs an vniuersall Church Therfore happy had he been if he had then and his followers would now receiue her from vs. And therfore we must conclude with the same holy Father saying in another place of the
very Sea of Peter the Apostle to whom our Sauiour after his Resurrection committed his Sheep to be fed euen to the present Bishop Origen to this purpose giueth vs a good and wholesome Rule happy if himselfe had followed the same in these excellent words Since there be many who thinke (f) Praef. ad lib. Periâ—â—â—chon they belieue the things which are of Christ and some are of different opinion from those who went before them let the preaching of the Church be kept which is deliuered by the Apostles by order of Succession and remaines in the Church to this very day that only is to be belieued for truth which in nothing disagrees from the Tradition of the Church In vaine then do these men brag of the doctrine of the Apostles vnles first they can demonstrate that they enioy a continued Succession of Bishops from the Apostles and can shew vs a Church which according to S. Augustin is deduced by vndoubted SVCCESSION from the Sea (g) Cont. Faust cap. 2 of the Apostles euen to the present Bishops 23. But yet neuerthelesse suppose it were granted that they agreed with the doctrine of the Apostles this were not sufficient to proue a Succession in Doctrine For Succession besides agreement or similitude doth also require a neuer-interrupted conueying of such doctrine from the time of the Apostles till the dayes of those persons who challenge such a Succession And so S. Augustine sayth We are to belieue that Gospell which from the time of the Apostles the (h) Lib. 28. cout Faust. â— 2. Church hath brought downe to our dayes by a neuer-interrupted course of times and by vndoubted succession of connection Now that the Reformation begun by Luther was interrupted for diuers Ages before him is manifest out of History and by his endeauouring a Reformation which must presuppose abuses He cannot therfore pretend a continued Succession of that Doctrine which he sought to reuiue and reduce to the knowledge and practise of men And they ought not to proue that they haue Succession of doctrine because they agree with the doctrine of the Apostles but contrarily we must infer that they agree not with the Apostles because they cannot pretend a neuer-interrupted Succession of doctrine from the times of the Apostles till Luther And heere it is not amisse to note that although the Waldenses Wicliffe c. had agreed with Protestants in all points of doctrine yet they could not brag of Succession from them because their doctrine hath not beene free from interruption which necessarily crosseth Succession 24. And as Want of Succession of Persons and Doctrine cannot stand with that Vniuersality of Time which is inseparable from the Catholique Church so likewise the disagreeing Sects which are dispersed throughout diuers Countreys and Nations cannot help towards that Vniacrsality of Place wherwith the true Church must be endued but rather such locall multiplication doth more and more lay open their diuision and want of Succession in Doctrine For the excellent Obseruation of S. Augustine doth punctually agree with all moderne Heretiques wherein this holy Father hauing cited these words out of the Prophet Ezechiel (i) Cap. 24. My flockes are dispersed vpon the whole face of the Earth he adds this remarkable sentence Not all Heretiques (k) Lib. de Pastorib c. 8. are spred ouer the face of the Earth and yet there are Heretiques spred ouer the whole face of the Earth some heere some there yet they are wanting in no place they know not one another One Sect for example in Africa another Heresy in the East another in Egypt another in Mesopotamia In diuers places they are diuers one Mother Pride hath begot them all as our one Mother the Catholique Church hath brought forth all faithfull people dispersed throughout the whole world No wonder then if Pride breed Dissention and Charity Vnion And in another place applying to Heretiques those words of the Canticles If thou know not (l) Cant. 1. thy selfe goe forth and follow after the steps of the flocks and feed thy kids he sayth If thou know not thy selfe goe (m) Ep. 48. thou forth I do not cast thee out but goe thou out that it may be said of thee They went from vs but they were not of vs. Goe thou out in the steps of the flocks not in my steps but in the steps of the flocks nor of one flocke but of diuers and wandring flocks And feed thy Kids not as Peter to whom is said Feed my sheep but feed thy Kids in the Tabernacles of the Pastors not in the Tabernacle of the Pastor where there is One flock and one Pastor In which words this holy Father doth set downe the Markes of Heresy to wit going out from the Church and Want of Vnity among themselues which proceed from not acknowledging one supreme Visible Pastor and Head vnder Christ And so it being proued that Protestants hauing neither succession of Persons nor Doctrine nor Vniuersality of Time or Place cannot auoid the iust note of Heresy 25. Hitherto we haue brought arguments to proue that Luther and all Protestants are guilty of Heresy against the Negatiue Precept of fayth which obligeth vs vnder paine of damnation not to imbrace any one error contrary to any truth sufficiently propounded as testified or reuealed by Almighty God Which were inough to make good that among Persons who disagree in any one point of fayth one part only can be saued Yet we will now proue that whosoeuer erreth in any one point doth also breake the Affirmatiue Precept of Fayth wherby we are obliged positiuely to belieue some reuealed truth with an infallible and supernaturall Fayth which is necessary to saluation euen necessitate finis or medij as Deuines speake that is so necessary that not any after he is come to the vse of Reason was or can be saued without it according to the words of the Apostle Without Fayth (n) Hebr. 11.6 it is impossible to please God 26. In the beginning of this Chapter I shewed that to Christian Catholique fayth are required Certainty Obscurity Prudence and Supernaturality All which Conditions we will proue to be wanting in the beliefe of Protestants euen in those points which are true in themselues and to which they yield assent as hapneth in all those particulars wherin they agree with vs from whence it will follow that they wanting true Diuine Fayth want meanes absolutely necessary to saluation 27. And first The fayth of Protestants wanteth Certainty that their beliefe wanteth Certainty I proue because they denying the Vniuersall infallibility of the Church can haue no certaine ground to know what Obiects are reuealed or testifyed by God Holy Scripture is in it selfe most true and infallible but-without the direction declaration of the Church we can neyther haue certaine meanes to know what Scripture is Canonicall nor what Translations be faythfull nor what is the true meaning of Scripture Euery Protestant as I suppose
the vniuersall Church where you breake off But Innocentius his words are these The Vniuersall Church is said to be that which consists of all Churches which of the Greeke word is called Catholique and according to this acception of the Word the Roman Church is not the Vniuersall Church but part of the Vniuersall Church Yet the first and chiefe part as the head in the body because in her fulnes of power doth exist but only a part of fulnes is deriued to others And that One Church which containes vnder it selfe all Churches is said to be the Vniuersall Church And according to this signification of the Word only the Roman Church is called the Vniuersall Church because she alone is preferred before the rest by priuiledge of singuler dignity As God is called the vniuersall Lord not because he is diuided into species c. but because all things are contained vnder his Dominion For there is One generall Church of which Truth it selfe said to Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke c. And the many particular Churches of which the Apostle sayth Instantia mea c. One doth consist of all as the generall of particulars One hath the preeminence before all because seing there is one Body of the Church of which the Apostle sayth We are all one Body in Christ she excels the rest as the Head excels the other members of the body Thus far Innocentius who as you see teacheth that the Roman Church is the Head of all others That although the Roman Church in one sense be a particular Church yet in another sense it both is and ought to be called the Vniuersall Church and finally that your Obiectiō about the repugnance betwixt the terme Vniuersall and particular is friuolous as he explicates very well by the example of Almighty God who is said to be an Vniuersall Cause and yet had neyther genus nor species and besids whom there are other particular Causes Is this to affirme as you say that the Roman Church is a topycall or particular Church in and vnder the Vniuersall Or that she is onely Topicall or particular as you would make the Reader belieue 9. Your preaching rather then prouing the Charity of your Church Administration of Sacraments c. must rely vpon a voluntary begging of the Question that your Religion is true otherwise the good deeds you mention are not expressions of Charity but professions of Heresy The learned Cardinall Hosius saying Whosoeuer belieues (f) Hosiu in Confess Petricon çap. 14. the Article of the Catholique Church belieues all things necessary to Saluation sayes no more then you will say that whosoeuer belieues the whole Canon of Scripture belieues all things necessary to Saluation And you cannot but speake against your owne conscience when you say of the Roman Church pag. 16. She tells them it is Creed inough for them to belieue onely in the Catholike Church For your selfe pag. 198. affirme that the best aduised of Catholique Deuines yield there are some points necessary to be knowne of all sorts necessitate medi◠in which points implicite fayth doth not suffice you cite some of our Authors to this purpose Chap. 71. 241. and referre vs to a great many more What conscionable dealing is this I will not stand to note that Hosius euen as he is cited by you in Latin doth not say that we belieue in the Church as you make him speake in your text but that we belieue the Church But inough of this 10. In your First Edition I find these wordes Neuer did (g) Pag. 13. any Church affoard more plentifully the meanes of grace nor more abound with all helps and aduantages of Piety then this of ours But in your second Edition you say No Church of this Age doth affoard c. Whereby you acknowledge that at first you did ouerlash so do you now But it comes to you by kind Beza makes bold to say When I compare euen the tymes which were next to the Apostles (h) In epist. Theol. epist. 1. pag. 5. with ours I am wont to say and in my opinion not without cause that they had more conscience and lesse knowledge and contrarily we haue more knowledge and lesse conscience And M. Whitgift your once Archbishop of Canterbury sayth The doctrine taught and professed (i) In his defēce of the answer c. pag. 472. 473. by our Bishops at this day is more perfect and sounder then commonly was in any Age after the Apostles c. How greatly were almost all the Bishops and learned Writers of the Greeke Church and Latins also for the most part spotted with doctrines of Free will of Merits of Inuocation of Saints and such like Surely you are not able to reckon in any Age since the Apostles times any Company of Bishops that taught and held so sound and perfect doctrine in all points as the Bishops of England do at this day And will not the Puritanes say that they are more pure then Protestants and Anabaptists accompt themselues more vnspotted then Puritanes c In the meane time your own Archbishop grants that Almost all the Bishops learned Writers of the Greeke Church and Latins also were for the most part spotted with doctrines which now you call Popish Superstitions 11. The rest of this Section contaynes nothing but rayling and vntruths continually vttered by euery Minister and often answered by our Writers In Catholique Countreys there may be good reason for not mentioning the needles praises of condemned Heretiques lest the estimation of their morall parts which they abuse against Gods Church breed a liking and add authority to their pestiferous errors If D. Stapleton or any other speaking of Heretiques in generall compare them to Magicians c. as Tertullian also doth what is that to you vnles you be resolued to proclaime your selfe an Heretique Such sayings are not directed to their Persons which we loue but fall vpon their sinne which considered in it selfe cannot I hope be ouerwronged by ill language S. Policarpe called an Heretique the first begotten of the Diuell S. Paul giues them the name of (k) Philip. 3.2 Dogs S. Iohn * Ep. 2.7 termes them Antichrists as your Ministers are wont to call the Pope Charity Mistaken compares you not with Iewes or Turkes for impossibility to be saued Euery deadly sinne excludes saluation yet some are more grieuous and further from pardon then others 12. I hope the Mistaker (l) Pag. 19. would not wish vs conuerted from our Creed No But we wish you conuerted from Erroneous Interpretations therof to the Catholique Church which we professe in our Creed In the meane time these are learned arguments which may serue both sides Protestants belieue the Creed Ergo they need not be couuerted Catholiques belieue the Creed Ergo they need not be conuerted You tell vs of a Censure of the Creed written by some Catholique And in your first Edition you put Censura
Spirits be remoued And Let vs (x) cap. 3. not heare These things I say These things thou saist but let vs heare These things our Lord sayth And What are our words (y) cap. 2. wherin we must not seeke her c. All that we obiect one against another of the giuing vp of the holy Bookes of the Sacrificing to Idols and of the persecution are our words these words you fraudulently conceale although you cite other in the selfe same Chapter because they plainly shew what S. Augustin vnderstands by Humane Testimonies they answere all your Obiections And The Question betweene vs (z) cap. 2. is where the Body of Christ that is the Church is What then are we to do Shall we seeke her in our words or in the words of our Lord Iesus-Chris̄t her head Surely we ought rather to seeke her in his words who is Truth and best knowes his owne Body And Let this Head (a) cap. 4. of which we agree shew vs his Body of which we disagree that our dissentions may by his words be ended Which words plainely declare the reason why he appealed to Scriptures because both parts agreed about them but disagreed concerning the Church And That we are in the (b) cap. 19. True Church of Christ and that this Church is vniuersally spread ouer the earth we proue not by OVR Doctours or Councels or Miracles but by the diuine Scriptures The Scriptures are the only this word only put by you in a different letter as if it were S. Augustines is your owne addition Document and foundation of our cause These are the places by you alleaged so vnfaithfully And will you in good earnest infer from them that we must reiect all Councels neuer so lawfull all Doctors neuer so Orthodox all Miracles neuer so authenticall euen those which were wrought in the Primitiue Church particularly in S. Augustines time which he himselfe published (c) De ciuit Det lib. 22. çap. 8. approued and admired And aboue all will you infer that after we haue found out the true Church by Markes set downe in Scripture her voyce for other particular points of doctrine is not to be heard but to be esteemed a meere humane testimony of Notaries c. as S. Augustine vnderstood humane Testimony when he writ against the Donatists Or will you infer that we must learne from Scripture all that which we are obliged to belieue This you pretend but with such successe as you are wont that is to plead for your Aduersary against your selfe Which is manifestly proued by the other Question of Rebaptization controuerted with the Donatists for which they were properly and formally Heretiques and yet S. Augustine confesseth that for this point of beliefe he could not produce Scripture as appeares by his words which I cited in the first (d) Chap. ◠num 16. Part and desire the Reader to saue me the labour of repeating them heere and then he will easily see that there is great difference betwixt the generall question of the Church and Questions concerning particular Doctrines deliuered by the Church in which this holy Father sayth not we must haue recourse to Scripture alone but that we ought to belieue the Church which is recommended to vs by Scripture And this he teacheth in that very booke De vnitate Ecclesiae out of which you brought the aforesaid places to proue that all Controuersies must be decided by Scripture With what modesty then do you say The Mistaker was ill aduised to send vs to this (e) pag. 33. Treatise which both in the generall ayme and in the quality of the Arguments and proofes is so contrary to his pretensions 7. You leaue (f) pag. 33. a passage taken out of S. Augustine to Charity Mistaken to ruminate vpon Whosoeuer (g) S. Aug. de vnit Eççles çap. 4. will belieue aright in Christ the Head but yet doth so dissent from his Body the Church that their Communion is not with the whole whersoeuer diffused but with themselues seuerall in some part it is manifest that such are not in the Catholique Church Well suppose all were done as you desire what other thing could be concluded then this But when Luther appeared Protestantisme was not with the whole whersoeuer diffused but with himselfe alone What will follow from hence you haue so much Logicke that you cannot Mistake Wherefore at this day and for euer we must say of the Catholique Church as Saint Augustine sayd Euery one of those he speakes of Heretiques is not (g) De Vnit Eççles ç. 3. to be found where she is to be found but she who is ouer All is to be found in the selfe same places where the others are 8. You made an ill choyce of S. Epiphanius to proue by his example that the Fathers were wont to confute Heresies by the only Euidence of Scripture For he not only approues Traditions as necessary but also proues them out of Scripture We ought sayth he to vse also (h) Haeres 61. Tradition for all things cannot be taken from the holy Scripture the holy Apostles therfore deliuered some things in writing and some things by Tradition as the holy Apostle sayth As I deliuered to you And in another place So I teach and so I deliuered in the Churches And the same Father as we shall see anon doth most cleerly approue Traditiōs yea and confutes Aērius by Tradition alone without any Scripture It is then no wonder if you corrupt S. Epiphanius to make men belieue that he speakes of Heresies in generall whereas his words concerne some few in particular as the Samosatenians Arians c. His wordes as you translate them are these The Diuine (k) Haeres 65. Goodnes hath forewarned vs agaynst Heresies by his Truth for God foreseeing the Madnes Impiety Fraude of the Samosatenians Arians Manichees and other Heretiques hath secured vs by his diuine Word against all their subtilities But the true Translation of S. Epiphanius is this Therfore the holy Scripture doth make vs secure of euery word That is hath secured vs how we are to speake or what words to vse against the deceipts of the Samosatenians Arians and of other Heresies concerning the blessed Trinity as it is cleere by these words immediatly following which you thought fittest to conceale For he doth not say the Father is the Only-begotten For how can he be the Only begotten who is not Begotten But he calls the Sonne the only begotten that the Sonne may not be thought to be the Father c. Where you see he speakes of Words or manner of speaking and concerning particular Heresies which yet is made more cleere by the words immediatly precedent to the sentence by you cited which words you also thought good to leaue out For he first proues out of Scripture that the Word is begotten of the Father but that the Father is not Begotten and therfore the Only-Begotten is the Sonne And then
he comes to the words by you cited and teacheth that holy Scripture hath warned vs what words and manner of speach or phrase we ought to vse in speaking of the Person of the Blessed Trinity which Schoole Deuines cal Proprietates Personarum Yet that your Corruption might not be void of art or rather a double fraud in your Margent you put in Greeke S. Epiphanius his words that so to such as vnderstood not Greeke nor perceiue your mistranssation your fraud might passe for honest dealing and deceiue your Reader and to others you might answere if need were that in your Margent S. Epiphanius was rightly alleaged 9. These words of Charity Mistaken I must needs obserue that m he that is S. Augustin recounts diuers Heresies which are held by the Protestant Church at this day and particularly that of denying Prayers and Sacrifices for the dead you corruptly compendiate when you say The Mistakeâ— must needs obserue that the Protestants hold diuers ancient Heresies and particularly (n) Pag. 3â— that of denying Prayers for the dead Where you omit the words Saint Augustine recounts diuers Heresies and in particular that c. to make men belieue that it was but a bare affirmation of Charity Mistaken and not collected out of S. Augustine As likewise you conceale Sacrifices lest the world might belieue S. Augustine was a Papist who neuertheles both in this Treatise de haeresibus ad Quod-vult-Deum haer 35. cited by Charity Mistaken and elsewhere teacheth that the dead are holpen by the holy (o) De verâ—â— Apost serm 34. Sacrifice After this you say He is very much (p) Pag. 35. mistaken in his Obseruation The Commemoration of the deceased in the ancient Church which AeÌ„rius without reason disallowed was a thing much differing from those Prayers for the dead which are now in vse in the Church of Rome Thus hauing substituted Commemoration of the deceased insteed of Prayers and Sacrifices for the dead you add with your wonted sincerity Our Roman Catholiques belieue at least they say so that some soules of the faithfull after their departure hence are detained in a certaine fire bordering vpon Hell till they be throughly purged and their Prayers for them are that they may be released or eased of those torments But you are still like your selfe You may read in (q) De Purg. lib. 2. cap. 6. Bellarmine that concerning the Question Vbisit Purgatorium Where Purgatory is the Church hath defined nothing And to the other point Whether in Purgatory there be true corporeall sire he answers (r) Ib. c. 11. That it is the common Opinion of Deuines that properly there is true fire of the same nature with our fire Which Doctrine is not indeed a matter of fayth because it is no where defined by the Church yea in the Councell of Florence the Grecians openly profess't that they did not hold there was fire in Purgatory neuertheles in the definition which was made in the last Sess it was defined that there is a Purgatory without making any mention of fire Neuertheles it is a most probable Opinion by reason of the agreement of the Schoole-Deuines which cannot be reiected without rashnes Thus Bellarmine 10. Now for the maine point That Aërius was put in the list of Heretiques for denying Prayers for the Dead which are offered to release or ease them of their paine I proue out of Aërius his owne words Out of S. Epiphanius whom you seeme to alledge in your behalfe Out of the ancient Fathers Greeke and Latine out of Protestants themselues both in regard that they confesse the Doctrine of Purgatory and Prayer for the dead euen as Catholiques belieue them to haue been belieued by the Ancient Fathers and also in regard they directly acknowledge that Aërius was condemned by the Fathers for denying Prayer for the Dead as we belieue and practise it 11. Heare then your Progenitor Aërius testifying with his owne mouth the practise of Catholiques in those ancient dayes How saith he to Catholiques doe you (*) Apud Epiph. haeres 75. after Death name the names of the dead For if the liuing pray c. what will it profit the dead Or if the prayers of them who are heere be for those who are there then let no man be vertuous nor let him doe any good worke but let him get friends by what meanes he will eyther by money or leauing that charge to his friends at his death let them pray for him that he may not SVFFER any thing there and that irremediable sinnes committed by him may not be layd to his charge Is it not cleere inough by these wordes that this Heretique taxeth Prayers offered for the dead to release or lessen their paynes after this life not only for a bare CoÌ„memoration or Thankes-giuing or the like And that any man may yet further consider especially if he continue to be of as Puritanicall a Spirit as he was who most resembles the spirit of this Aërius let vs by the way add these words of his Neyther ought (s) Ibid. there to be any appointed fast for these things are Iudaicall and vnder the yoake of seruitude For there is no law appointed for the iust man but for Murtherers of their Fathers and Mothers and such like But if I be resolued to fast I will choose my selfe any day and I will fast with freedome 12. Let vs now see what S. Epiphanius in the same place sayth for your Commemoration of the deceased As for pronouncing the names of the Dead sayth he what can be more profitable good and admirable Because the liuing belieue that the deceased liue and are not extinct but haue a being and liue with our Lord And that I may vtter a most pious doctrine that there is hope in those who pray for their Brethren as for those who are trauailed to another Countrey These words you recite out of S. Epiphanius but leaue out those words which immediatly follow and are directly against the doctrine which you will proue out of him in that very place For thus he saith But the Praiers which are made for them do profit them although they do not release the whole sin in regard as long as we are in this world we faile and erre both voluntarily and against our will to the end that that also may be mentioned which is more perfect we remember both the lust Sinners For Sinners imploring the mercy of God But for the Iust Fathers Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelists Martyres Confessors Bishops and Anchorites c. that we may put a difference betwixt our Lord Iesus Christ and all Orders of men by that honour which we giue to him and that to him we may giue adoration You see that S. Epiphanius speakes of forgiuenes of sinnes that he makes a difference between Prayers offered for deceased Sinners and the Commemoration of Saints who by way of Thankes-giuing are remembred as holy men wheras
happines in body soule when they shall once haue attained it after the generall Resurrection which were a Request sauouring of Infidelity as if the Saints could be depriued of Beatitude once enioyed Now as for Azor he proues in the place cited by you that the Grecians do not altogether take away some kind of Purging fire but only seeme to deny a certaine determinate punishment of corporall fire Because sayth he they do truly offer Sacrifice and Prayers to God for the dead surely not for the Blessed nor for those which be damned in Hell which were plainely absurd and impious it must therfore be for them who are deceased with fayth and Piety but haue not fully satisfied for the temporall punishment due to their sinnes Is this to condemne the doctrine of Antiquity as absurd and impious Did Antiquity offer Sacrifice and Prayers for the damned Ghosts or for the Saints to satisfy for the paine due to their sinnes as Azor meanes speakes and therfore doth truly say it were absurd and impious Is not this to corrupt Authors 24. Wherfore vpon the whole matter we must conclude that Aërius was condemned by the Church and was reckoned among Heretiques and particularly by S. Epiphanius and S. Augustine for the selfe same Error which you maintaine To which Maior Proposition if we adde this Minor which Charity Mistaken expressely notes (m) Pag. 27. and you conceale But S. Augustine sayth Whosoeuer should hold any one of the Heresies by him recounted wherof this of Aërius is one were not a Christian Catholique The Conclusion will follow of it selfe 25. Would to God your selfe and all Protestants did seriously consider what accompt will be exacted at the last day of those who by their erroneous doctrine and opposition to the visible Church of Christ depriue the soules of faythfull people deceased of the many Prayers Sacrifices and other good deeds which in all rigour of Iustice are due to them by Title of founding Colledges Chanonryes Chantries Hospitals c. Lesse cruelty had it been to rob them of their Temporall goods or to bereaue them of their corporall liues then to haue abandoned them to the Torment of a fier which although as S. Augustine sayth (n) In Psal 37. is sleighted by worldly men yet indeed is more grieuous then whatsoeuer can be endured in this world Consider I say whether this manifest Iniustice though it did not proceed as it doth from hereticall perswasion were not alone sufficient to exclude saluation And so much of this point concerning Prayer for the dead 26. The words of S. Thomas whom you cite pag. 40. to strengthen your distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall do directly ouerthrow that sense and purpose for which you make vse of them For as much sayth he as belongs to the prime (o) 2.2 q. 2. art 5. in corpor Obiects of Beliefe which are the Articles of Fayth a man bound explicitely to belieue them as he is bound to haue Fayth But as for other Obiects of fayth a man is not bound to belieue them explicitely but only implicitely or in readines of mind for as much as he is ready to belieue whatsoeuer the holy Scripture containes But he is bound to belieue them explicitely only when it appeares to him that it is contained in the doctrine of fayth Now our Question is not about nescience or ignorance of some points of fayth but of disagreeing concerning them one denying what another affirmes in which case according to the aforesaid doctrine of S. Thomas there is neither explicite nor implicite Beliefe of such points but positiue direct error in them and therfore such disagreement cannot stand with Vnity of fayth It is strange Diuinity to confound as you do points secundary or not fundamentall with probable points For how many millions of Truths are there contained in Scripture which are not of their owne nature prime Articles Will you therfore infer that they are but probable Primary and secundary respect the matter which we belieue Probable and certaine are deriued from the formall reason or motiue for which we belieue Let two disagree in some points euen fundamentall yet not sufficiently propounded as reuealed Truths they still retaine the same fayth and contrarily put case that two agree in all fundamentall points if they disagree in any secundary point sufficiently applied to their vnderstanding as a reuealed truth then the one must be an Heretique and differ from the other in the very nature and substance of fayth For as in a Musicall Consort say you a discord (p) pag. 40. now and then so it be in the Descant and depart not from the ground sweetens the Harmony so say I retorting your own sweet similitude because euery least error opposing a reuealed Truth is not in the Descant but departs from the ground of fayth which is the attestation of God it doth not sweeten the Harmony but destroyes the substance of Fayth And heerafter it shal be shewed that you wrong Stapleton no lesse (q) Infra chap. 5. num 17. then you do S. Thomas 27. That Variety of Opinions or Rites in parts of the Church doth rather commend then preiudice the Vnity of the whole you pretend to proue out of (s) Epist. 75. apud Cypr. Farmilianus in an Epistle to S. Cyprian which doctrine though it be true in some sense yet according to your application it is pernicious as if it were sufficient to Vnity of Fayth that men agree in certaine fundamentall points though they vary in other matters concerning fayth And you should haue obserued that Firmilianus who wrote that Epistle in fauour of S. Cyprians error about Rebaptization speakes in that place of the Custome of keeping Easter which point after it was once defined remained no more indifferent but grew to be a necessary Obiect of Beliefe in so much that the Heretiques called Quartadecimani were for that point condemned and anathematized by the Vniuersall Church in the Councels of Nice Constantinople and Ephesus Wherby it is euident that though some point be not in it selfe fundamentall yet if it be once defined by the Church the Errour degenerates into Heresy Your Charity is alwayes Mistaken aduantaging your Aduersary by your owne Arguments 28. I said already that to be separate from the Church for Heresy or Schisme destroies Saluation because persons lyable to those crimes are in the Church neither in re nor in voto neither in fact nor in effectuall desire as Cathecumens are and as Excommunicate persons may be if repenting their former Obstinacy they cannot by reason of some extrinsecall impediment obtaine Absolution from the Censure 29. You extend your Charity so far to Infidels as to forget fidelity in relating what Catholique Deuines teach concerning them not telling whether they require some supernaturall fayth at lest for some Obiect and quoting Authors with so great affected confusion that a man would thinke them to maintaine the opinion which they
to the people other things then the Articles of the Apostles Creed the Ten Commaundments and some of the Sacraments because these are simply necessary and profitable for all men the rest besides such as a man may be saued without them Heere you stop leauing out the words immediately following which are directly against you So that sayth Bellarmine he haue (h) Ibid. a will ready to imbrace and belieue them whensoeuer they shall be sufficiently propounded to him by the Church Besides you falsifie Bellarmine when you make him say that the Apostles neuer vsed to preach to the people other things then the Articles of the Apostles Creed the commandments and some of the Sacraments because these are simply necessary and profitable for all men But he sayth directly the contrary namely that the Apostles preached to all some things which were not necessary but only profitable to all and therfore not superfluous as you say whereas yet he expressely affirmes the knowledge of the Creed commandments and some sacraments to be necessary to all I wonder what pleasure you can take in corrupting Authors to your owne discredit Now since we must haue as Bellarmine rightly teacheth a will ready to imbrace whatsoeuer is propounded by the Church it followeth that notwithstanding your Confidence to the contrary we cannot but except against your publique Seruice or Liturgy I haue neither will nor leisure to examine particulars but Exceptions inough offer themselues to any mans first Consideration The very occasion and end for which it was framed proceeded out of an Hereticall spirit to oppose the true Visible Church It was turned into English vpon an hereticall perswasion and a popular insinuation and a crafty affectation to inueigle the humor of the people that publique Prayers were vnlawfull in an vnknowne tongue It leaueth out Prayers both for deceased sinners and to glorious Saints blotting diuers of them out of their Calendar and hath abrogated their festiuall dayes and the like they haue done concerning fasts except those few which they vouchsafe to like It abolisheth all memory of S. Peters Successour It treateth only of two Sacraments excluding the rest and in the one it omitteth most of our Ceremonies as superstitious in the other it professeth not to giue any thing but the substance of Bread and wine It administreth to Lay people both kinds as necessary by the institution of Christ our Lord Masse or Sacrifice it hath none It reades and belieues Scripture heretically translated It mentioneth no Reliques of Saints And in a word it is both in the whole Body and designe and in euery point a profession of a Church and fayth contrary to Catholiques and implies a condemnation of our Liturgy as superstitious your selfe boldly say We cannot we (i) Pag. 68. dare not communicate with Rome in her publique Liturgy which is manifestly polluted with grosse superstitions and therefore wee Catholiques also can no more approue your practise and Liturgy then we can imbrace your Doctrine and fayth I said that I had no desire to examine the particulars of your Liturgy neither is it needfull For we may iudge of the rest by the very first words or Introite of your Seruice beginning with a Text for which you cite Ezech. 18. At what time soeuer a sinner doth repent him of his sinnes from the bottome of his heart I will put all his wickednes out of my remembrance sayth the Lord. But there is no such sentence in Ezechiel whose words are these euen in the Bible of the Protestants But if the wicked will turne from all his sinnes which he hath committed and keep all my statutes and do that which is lawfull and right he shall surely liue he shall not die All his Transgressions which he hath committed they shall not be mentioned vnto him in the righteousnes which he hath done he shall liue Your first Reformers the soule of whose Church was solifidian Iustification were loth to heare of possibility to keep all the Commandments of working Righteousnes or liuing in the Righteousnes which he hath wrought as also they were vnwilling to particularize with the Prophet what is required to true Repentance knowing full well the different opinions of their first Progenitors about this point of Repentance and therfore they thought best to corrupt this Text. And which is more strange in your seruice-Booke translated into Latin and printed in London Per assignationem Francisci Florae the sentence is cited at large as it is in the Prophet and therfore the corruption still remayning in the English to deceiue the Vnlearned is more inexcusable Neither in the same Introite is the allegation of Ioel. 2. much more truly made Rent your hearts not your garments and turne to the Lord your God c. Out of which place you know men are wont to declaime against our corporall Penance of Fasting Watching Hayre-cloth Disciplines c. but euen according to your owne Translation the words are Turne you euen to me with all your heart and with fasting and with weeping and with mourning And rent your hearts and not your garments c. where I belieue you will confesse that your omission was not vsed to no purpose 8. You speake among other things of Images we grant that God may be worshipped without an Image But we say that he cannot be truly worshipped by any one who denieth worship of Images because true worship of God cannot stand with any one Heresy It is highly good lawfull and a most holy thing to pray to God but yet if one should belieue that we may not also pray to liuing men your selfe would I thinke condemne him for an Heretique because all Christians intreate their Brethren to pray for them By which example all your instances pag. 72. may be answered Your saying out of Bellarminine that the worship and Inuocation of Saints was brought into the Church rather by custom then any Precept is answered heerafter n. 12. And I would gladly know by what authority your Church can inioyne secret Cōfession in some case as heere pag. 72. you say she doth if Christ haue left it free Can a humane law oblige men to reueale their secret sinnes in Confession especially since they know not whether your Ministers will not thinke themselues obliged to acquaint some Officer therewith in case the Penitent disclose any crime punishable by the Lawes of the Realme To which propose I could tell you strange and true stories as contrarily because Catholikes belieue the Sacrament of Confession to haue been instituted by our Sauiour Christ as necessary to Saluation they consequently teach that the Seale and Secret thereof is so sacred and inuiolable that the Pope himselfe cannot dispense therein though it were to saue his owne life And now to follow your wandrings you may know that we doe not hinder but giue free leaue to vnlearned persons to say their prayers in a known language but the Church doth celebrate publique Seruice
as about the Canon of Scripture c. as also between Protestants and Puritans c. And I could put you in mind of your Brethren who teach that for diuers Ages the visible Church perished and yet S. Augustine teacheth that there is nothing more euident in Scripture then the Vniuersality of the Church as also who deny that Bishops are by diuine Institution who oppose your whole Hierarchy as Antichristian who differ from you in the forme of Ordination of Ministers all which are fundamental points But I will refer the Reader to the most exact Brereley who (z) Tract 3. Sect. 7. vnder ◠reckons no fewer then seauenty seauen differences amōg you punctually citing the Bookes and pages where you may find them And yet for the present I will set downe some words of Doctor Willet testifying your differences From this fountaine sayth he haue sprung (a) In his meditation vpō the 122. Psa pag. 91. forth these and such like whirle-points and bubbles of new doctrine as for example that the Scriptures are not meanes concerning God of all that profitably we know That they are not alone complete to euerlasting felicity That the word of God cannot possibly assure vs what is the word of God That there are works of Supererogation That the Church of Rome as it now standeth is the family of Christ That Idolaters and wicked Heretiques are members of the visible Church let D. Potter heere remember what himselfe sayth of the Roman Church and what he relateth about the opinion of M. Hooker and M. Morton that among Heretiques there may be a true Church That there is in Ordination giuen a indeleble Character That they haue power to make Christs body That Sacraments are necessary in their place and no lesse required then beliefe it selfe That the soules of Infants dying without Baptisme are damned c. Do you thinke that the necessity of Baptisme and other Sacraments the sufficiency of sole Scripture which your English Clergy professeth at their Ordination and those other points are but small matters But besides these and many more there are two other maine generall transcendent differences among you The one whether you do not differ in maine points which though you deny yet others affirme The other what be maine or fundamentall points Vpon which two differences i◠will necessarily follow that you cannot know whether you haue the same substance of fayth and hope of saluation or no. But though your differences were all reduced to one and that how small soeuer that one were sufficient to exclude Vnity of faith among you as I haue often said and proued I haue no mind to spend time in telling you how vn-scholler-like you say Two brothers (b) Pag. 87. in their choller may renounce ech other and disclaime their amity yet that heat cannot dissolue their inward and essentiall relation For when a mans Brother dyes doth he loose any essentiall relation I alwayes thought that essentiall relations were inseparable from the essence to which they belong and the essence from them and a man who still remaynes a man may yet cease to be a Brother It is therfore no essentiall relation 24. I grant that Differences in Ceremonies or discipline do not alwayes infer diuersity of fayth yet when one part condemnes the Rites and discipline of the other as Antichristian or repugnant to Gods word as it hapneth among Protestants then differences in Ceremontes redound to a diuersity in fayth 25. Luther tempered by (c) Pag. 93. mild Melancthon that honour of Germany did much relent and remit of his rigour agaynst Zwinglius and began to approue the good Counsels of peace If inconstancy concerning matters of Fayth be Mildnes Melancton was I grant extremely mild in which respect he was noted euen by Protestāts was disliked by Luther How much Luther relented of his rigour agaynst Zwinglius let himselfe declare in these words which you could not but read in Charity-Mistaken I hauing now one of my feet (d) Pag. 53. in the graue will carry this testimony and glory to the Tribunall of God That I will with all my heart condemne and eschew Carolostadius Zwinglius Oecolampadius and their disciples nor will I haue familiarity with any of them eyther by letter writing words nor deeds accordingly as the Lord hath commanded If in Polonia the followers of Luther and Caluin haue long liued together in concord as you would haue vs belieue the thing being really not true they must thanke the good Catholique King vnder whome they liue who is able and apt to punish when there is great excesse But if they had the raynes in their owne hand what greater concord could be hoped for amongst them in that Kingdome then is found in other places where they haue more power In Polonia there are many Arians and Trinitarians who liue in outward concord with the rest But will you acknowledge them for Brethren to Lutherans Caluinists and your selfe The answere will be hardly made if you sticke to your owne grounds and I may well passe on to the rest CHAP. IIII. YOVR very beginning promiseth small sincerity in that which followes For you make Charity-Mistaken say that Protestants be Heretiques at the lest if not Infidels wheras he only sayth substantially proueth that whosoeuer doth disbelieue any one Article of fayth doth not assent to all the rest by diuine infallible fayth but by an humane perswasion which is a point of great consideration and of which it seemes you are very loath to speake 2. You take much paines to proue what we do not deny For it maketh nothing to the purpose whether or no the Proposition of the Church belong to the formall Obiect of fayth as heertofore I haue told you Nor do we deny Scripture to containe all mattes of fayth if it be rightly vnderstood because Scripture among other Verities doth also recommend vnto vs the Church diuine Traditions though they be vnwritten And you egregiously falsify (a) Pag. 99. Edit 1. Bellarmine as if he excluded the Authority of the Church wheras in the place by you cited de verb. Dei lib. 1. c. 2. he only speakes against the priuate spirit and euen there proues out of S. Augustine that God will haue vs learne of other men We likewise teach that tho Church doth not make any new Articles of fayth but only propounds and declares to vs the old Only I would haue you heere consider that whether or no Scripture be the sole Rule of fayth or whether fayth be resolued into diuine Reuelation alone or els partly into the Proposition of the Church all is one for the maine Question whether persons of diuers Religions can be saued For this remaineth vndoubted that it cannot be but damnable to oppose any truth sufficiently declared to be contained in Scripture or reuealed by God 3. No lesse impertinent is your other discourse concerning the difficulty to know what is Heresy For
the one is by you cited deliuer his opinion in the person of his Disciple to be directly for the infallible authority of Councels So as heer is a double corruption the one the citing words for his opinion which are not so the other the concealing those which are his and directly to the contrary Clemangis his workes are forbidden That worke of Cusanus which you (c) Concord Cathol cite he afterward retracted Panormitanus in the place (d) In cap. Significasti extra de Electione cited by you may seeme to speake of Councells disagreeing from the Pope and though he say that if the Councell erred it did not follow that the whole Church should erre because the faith might remaine in others yet that doth not conuince that he held a Generall Councell together with the Pope might erre For Canus hath the very same Obiection and Answere and yet as we shall see anon he holds it to be a matter of faith that General Councels confirmed by the Pope cannot erre Neuertheles if Panormitanus did hold that Generall Councells with the Pope might erre he can only be excused because he did not affirme it with pertinacity Petrus de Aliaco hath indeed (e) Quaest in Vesper art 3. the words which you cite but they are not spoken by him as his opinion but as the opinion of some others so he hath also the cleane contrary proposition viz. that a generall Councell cannot erre nor euen the Remane Church which you might as well haue alledged for his opinion as the other but the truth is that neither are alledged by him as his owne doctrine but as the opinion of others as I said which he expreslly sayth that he doth forbeare to discusse for the present contenting himselfe onely with these three Conclusions which expresse his owne opinion First that alwayes there is some Church which is ruled by the law of Christ which according to his former explication is as much as to say that there is alwayes some Church which cannot erre The second that it is not conuinced out of Scripture that any particular Church is in such manner conformed to the rule of Christs law The third is that it is conuinced out of Scripture that alwayes there is some vniuersall Church which neuer swarues from the rule of Christ Neither will it aduantage you that he teacheth that any particular Church may erre For as I haue often told you the Roman Church in the sense which I haue heertofore declared is all one with the Vniuersall Church and so his doctrine that the Vniuersall Church cannot erre directly proues that the Romane cannot erre And when he teacheth that the Vniuersall Church cannot erre he doth not distinguish betwixt points fundamentall and not fundamentall as you do You cite out of Canus these words I confesse (f) Canus loc lib. 5. c. 5. §. At contrà that euery Cenerall Councell doth represent the whole Church But when you vrge that the Church cannot erre it is true in that sense in which faithfull people vnderstand it which is that the whole Church together that is all faythfull people do not erre But this doth not hinder but that the greater part of the Church may erre I should scarcely haue belieued it to be possible for any man aliue who pretends to haue credit common fame to peruert the sense of this Author as you do vnles I did see with mine owne eyes both what you write and indeed what Canus affirmes For in the Chapter next precedent (g) Cap. 4. §. Tertia CoÌ„â—lusio to that which you cite he hauing affirmed that a Generall Councell confirmed by the Pope makes a thing certayne and belonging to fayth in respect of vs áddeth that this Conclusion is so certayne that the coÌ„trary is hereticall which he proues by diuers good conuincing reasons and among the rest that if such a Councell could erre there were no way certaine to decide Controuersies of fayth And in the place which you cite afterward he impugnes their opinion who affirme that a Generall CouÌ„cell is infallible before it be confirmed by the Pope which they endeauoured to proue because the CouÌ„cel represents the whole Church and therfore can erre no more then the vniuersall Church it selfe To which Argument he answeres in the words which I set downe and which you alledge to proue that Canus held a Generall Councell might erre namely But when you vrge that the Church caÌ„not erre it is true in that sense in which faythfull people vnderstand it which is that the whole Church together that is all faythfull people do not erre and therefore it is euident that you bring them directly agaynst his words and meaning bring the Obiection for his answere And besides what we haue already related out of him within fiue lines after the words cited by you he sayth The Councell would be infallible if it were confirmed by the Pope I leaue it to your owne consideration what iudgement euen you would frame of any other beside your selfe if he should cite Authours in this manner 22. You haue no reason to be so much offended that we equall diuine vnwritten Traditions with the written word of God For we haue so reuerend an opinion of Gods word as that whersoeuer we find it our fayth belieues it to be most infallible nor can we belieue that pen inke and paper can add any certainty to the Truth thereof Without cause also you accuse the Romane Church of supine negligence because she hath not as yet giuen a Catalogue of vnwritten Traditions as well as of all the Bookes of Scripture For you might also condemne the Ancient Church which did not for diuers ages deliuer any Catalogue of Canonicall Bookes which yet afterward she did as occasion required And as the Councell of Trent by reason of your heresies whereby you denyed diuers Canonicall Bookes of Scripture set downe a perfect Canon of Scripture so as iust necessary occasioÌ„ may require the holy Ghost by which she is directed will not fayle to assist her in making a Catalogue of vnwritten Traditions I cannot find but that your moderne Brethren will gladly admit of some Apostolicall Traditions agaynst the Puritans and why then doe you not make a Catalogue of them as you haue done of the Bookes of Scripture Your famous Archbishop of Canterbury sayth For so much as the Originall (i) M. Witgift in his his defence c. pag. 351 beginning of these names Metropolitan Archbishop c. such is their Antiquity cannot be found so farre as I haue read it is to he supposed they haue their Originall from the Apostles themselues for as I remember S. Augustine hath this Rule in his 118. Epistle And in proofe of this Rule of S. Augustine he adds It is of credit (k) Vbi sugra pag. 352. with the Writers of our tyme namely with M. Zwinglius M. Caluin M. Gualter and surely I thinke no
you proue by the Authority of Nilus a Schismatique an Heretique and a professed enemy of the Church of Rome and of Protestants also vnles they haue a mind to belieue that the holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonne And how can Nilus affirme as he doth that the Pope refuseth to haue the groundes of that dissension fayrely heard and discussed in a generall Councell For vnder Vrbanus the second a Councell was held at Barium in Apulia where the Graecian Bishops being present were conuicted of errour in denying God the holy Ghost to proceed from God the Sonne S. Anselme (l) Anselm lib. de protes Spirit sanct our Primate of Canterbury being the chiefe disputant in the behalfe of the Latins Whereupon the Graecian Emperour that then ruled Alexius Comnenus became Catholicke and caused the Graecian Bishops to hold Communion with the Roman Church so long as he liued Baronîus tom 12. An. 1118. as Baronius sheweth And greater cause I haue to wonder that you would now reuiue this Cauill of Nilus For to say nothing of the Councell of Lyons in France vnder Gregory the tenth Baron ad an 1274. where the Patriarke of Constantinople was present and other Hierarchs of Greece to the number of 40. besides innumerable Bishops and Prelates of the Latins being more then a thousand in all some Kings being there in person and all by their Embassadors namely Michael Paleologus and Andronicus his Sonne Emperours of the East in whose name their Embassadours recanted abiured all errors against the Roman Church namely that about the Holy Ghost to pretermit I say this instance who doth not know that in the generall Councell at Florence the matter was debated vnder Eugenius the fourth where the Graecians with their Emperour and their Patriarch and the Legates of three other Patriarches and the Armenians and the Deputyes of the Ethiopians were present and a perfect concord was then made from which the Greekes departing afterward were subdued and made slaues to the Turke And that they might see the cause of their destruction to be pertinacity in their Errour about the Holy Ghost vpon the very feast of Pentecost as Bellarmine proueth the Citty of Constantinople was taken their Emperour killed Lib. 2. de Christo cap. 30. and their Empyre extinguished And it is well knowne that the true cause of their dissension whereupon a separation at last ensued was the Controuersy between Ignatius lawfull Patriarch of Constantinople whom the Pope still kept in his Communion and Photius an ambitious Intruder into the Patriarchate by strength of the Imperiall Power Which Schisme hath enlarged it selfe by addition of the heresy about the procession of the holy Ghost For want of better matter you bring heere that old Obiection about the Councels of Constance and Basil defining that the Councell is aboue the Pope The Answere whereof you may read in Bellarmine that (m) De Câ— lib. 2. c. â—â— the Popes who were deposed were in time of Schisme when it was not knowne who was the true Pope in which case the Church hath power to prouide herselfe of an vndoubted Pastour To say nothing that two of those Popes voluntarily renounced their pretence As for the decree of the Councell of Constance that all ought to obey a Generall Councell he answeres that either it is meant for time of Schisme or if it be vniuersall that the Councell could not make any such definition of fayth because it was neuer confirmed by the Pope for as much as concernes that point And the Councell of Basill was in that particular expresly repealed by diuers Popes and the whole Church receiued Eugenius as true Pope who yet was deposed by that Councell To disproue the Popes infallibility you cite Victoria saying Giue me (n) Relect. 4. de Potest Papae Conc. prop. 12. ad fin Clements Linus Siluesters and I will leaue all to their pleasure But to speake no worse of latter Popes they are much inferiour to those ancient Ones But you alleage this Author according to your wonted manner that is very vnfaithfully For he in that place speakes only of Dispensations in Lawes the facility and frequency wherof Victoria dislikes in these latter times Which being wholy matter of Fact doth nothing preiudice the Popes Infallibility for points of Fayth 30. To proue that there is nothing but vncertainty in prouing the Popes infallibility (o) Pag. 176. you alledge some place out of Bellarmine but with so great confusion and fraude that they serue only to proue the certainty of your ill dealing Bellarmine distinguishes two Questions The one whether S. Peter had any Successor in being head of the Church and this he sayth is most certayne and De iure diuino or by diuine institution The other whether it be de iure diuino or of diuine institution that S. Peters Successour must be the particular Bishop of Rome and this he sayth is not so certayne though it be true because if S. Peter had placed his Sea in some other Citty or els had chosen no particular Citty at all yet his Successour had been iure diuino Head of the Church howbeyt in that case he had not beene the particular Bishop of Rome Neuertheles because S. Peter did in fact choose Rome it is vpon that supposall a matter of fayth that the Bishop of Rome S. Peters Successour is all one As for example by the Law of God all lawfull Superiours are to be obeyed and therefore though it be not of diuine institutioÌ„ that this or that man should be superiour yet supposing that in fact he be Superiour the general diuine Law pitches fastens vpoÌ„ him obligeth vs to obey him in particular This being presupposed let vs now heare what you alledge out of (q) De Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 4. §. Restant Bellarmine S. Peter sate many yeares Bisshop of Rome there he died You chaÌ„ge the very QuestioÌ„ Bellarmines words in the Title of the Chapter are Petrum Romae vsque admortem Episcopum fuisse That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome till his death And he explaines his meaning to be That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome and that he kept that Bishoprick till his death which is a different thing from what you say That S. Peter sate many yeares Bishop of Rome and there he died For he might haue been many yeares Bishop of Rome and also died at Rome and yet not died Bishop of Rome as one may be Bishop of London for some yeares and dy at London yet not dye Bishop of London Now Bellarmine sayth that S. Peter died Bishop of Rome which indeed was the maine point and proues that the Bishop of Rome is S. Peters successour wheras to dye at Rome is accidentall to his being Bishop of Rome and in fact diuers Bishops of Rome died in France and els where But let vs goe on You say that the first reason by which Bellarmine proues that S.
Peter died Bishop of Rome is so weake that himselfe sayth only suadere videtur it seemes to perswade This Bellarmine sayth only of one reason besides which he bringeth diuers other demonstrations neither is it necessary for the certainty of any truth that euery reason for it be euident And it is the doctrine of Philosophers that the best methode is to begin with probable Arguments and then to ascend to demonstrations Moreouer in this very subiect Vdalricus Velenus a Lutheran wrote a Booke to proue that S. Peter was neuer at Rome and to that purpose he brings eighteen reasons which he calls Persuasions yet he holds them for euident Demonstrations If then Bellarmine out of his great modesty say that his first reason seemes to persuade must you thence inferre that it doth not demonstrate And indeed it is a very good and solid argument After this you go forward and cite Bellarmine saying There God cōmanded him to fixe his Chaire to leaue his full Power to his heyres and Successours the Popes And then you adde But what certainty of this Indeed saith Bellarmine it is no where (r) De Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 12. §. Ob seruandum est tertiò expressed in Scripture that the Pope you should add of Rome as Bellarmine hath it succeeds Peter therefore happily it is not of diuine right that he succeeds him Yet it is not improbable that (s) Ibid. § Et quontam God commanded him to fasten his Seate at Rome and it may be deuoutly so belieued And it may be truly belieued that you corrupt Bellarmine First when you speake of Popes you leaue out of Rome in which word consisteth the maine point For Bellarmine teaches that it is most certaine and de iure diuino that S. Peter should haue Popes to succeed him but he holdeth it not so certaine whether it be of diuine institution that his Successour should be Pope of Rome that is haue his Seate fixed at Rome although de facto it be there Bellarmines wordes are It is not all one that a thing be a point of fayth and that it be of diuine institution For it was not a diuine Law that S. Paul should haue a cloake yet it is a point of fayth that S. Paul had a Cloake Though then it be not exprsly contained in Scripture that the Bishop of Rome should succeed S. Peter thus far you goe and leaue out the words immediately following which explicate the whole matter Yet it is euidently deduced out of Scripture that some must succeed S. Peter but that he who succeeds him is the Bishop of Rome we know by the Apostolicall Tradition of S. Peter which Tradition Generall Councels Decrees of Popes and Consent of Fathers haue declared as heerafter shall be demonstrated And according to this cleere explication he said a little before Because S. Marcellus Pope in his Epistle ad Antiochenos writes that S. Peter came to Rome by the Commandment of our Lord and S. Ambrose (t) In Orat. cont Auxētium and S. Athanasius (u) In Apolog pro fuga sua affirme that S. Peter suffered Martyrdome at Rome by the commandment of Christ it is not improbable that our Lord did also expresly command that S. Peter should so settle his Seate at Rome that the Bishop of Rome should absolutely succeed him But howsoeuer this be at lest this manner of Succession proceeds not from the first institution of the Popedome which is deliuered in Scripture Do you not see what Bellarmine deliuers for certaine what for lesse certaine It is certaine that S. Peter must haue Successours it is certaine that in fact his Successour is the Bishop of Rome but it is not so certaine that by diuine institution his Successour is the Bishop of Rome but that might proceed from the act of S. Peter who actually liued and died Bishop of Rome though he might haue chosen some other particular Diocesse These things Bellarmine deliuers very cleerly but you do so inuolue his words as one would belieue that he held it for vncertaine whether actually the Pope of Rome be S. Peters Successour or whether it be certaine and of diuine institution that S. Peter left any Successour at all both which are plainely against his meaning and expresse words 31. Your other obiections are so old and triuiall that they deserue no Answere I sayd already that in time of Schisme the Church hath power to declare or elect a true and vndoubted Pope and in the meane tyme God in his Prouidence can gouerne his Church without new definitions of Popes of which there is not alwayes so precise necessity as that the Church may not subsist without thē for a time as for three hundred yeares from the Apostles tymes she was without any one Generall Councell and as the Iewes for two thousand yeares were without Scripture If any should enter symonically be accepted by the Churh as Pope God will eyther not permit him to define any matter of fayth or els will assist him not to erre perniciously not for his owne sake but in respect of the Church which cannot be ledde into errour as she might if that reputed Pope could define a falshood because the members are obliged to conforme themselues to one whome they esteeme their Head And you your selfe must say the same For since all the spirituall Power and Iurisdiction of your first Prelates was deriued from Rome you must affirme that a Pope accepted for such by the Church is sufficiently enabled for all necessary acts and functions notwithstanding that secret impediment For otherwise you might endanger the Authority of your owne Prelates And the same you must in proportion say of all publique Magistrates The same answere serues to your other Obiectiō that we are not sure whether he that is elected Pope be baptized For it belongs to Gods prouidence not to permit any whome the Church hath elected for her head to erre perniciously though indeed your suppositions are neuer to be admitted but we are to belieue that whosoeuer in a tyme free from Schisme is accepted by the Church for true Pope is such indeed And I wonder you doe not reflect that these obiections are also against your owne Bishops Or if you say that your spirituall Iurisdiction comes from the Temporall Prince the same difficulty wil remaine cōcerning him For I suppose you will not say that one who is not baptized and consequently not a Christian can meerly by vertue of his Temporall Power giue spirituall Iurisdiction And though you say that it is not want of intention in the Minister which can make voyde the Sacrament of Baptisme yet you will not deny but that there may be other essentiall defects hindring the validity therof as for example if by error the water be so mingled that it be not elementall water or if the forme of the words in Baptisme be not pronounced entierely c. For in your forme of Publique Baptisme
it is said That water and in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the Holy Ghost are essentiall parts of Baptisme and this you haue gained by your obiections And finally if your doctrine be true that intention in the Minister is not necessary the Pope cannot according to your doctrine want Baptisme for want of due intention in the Minister You proceed 32. No Papist (x) pag. 180. in Europe excepting only those few that stand by and heare his Holynes when he giues out his Oracles can be infallibly sure what it is which he hath defined A goodly Obiection As if there were no meanes to know what one sayth vnles he heare him speake For ought I know you neither haue seene the Pope nor Rome will you therfore thinke you are not sure that there is a Pope and Rome Haue you all this while spoken against a thing in the aire while you impugned the Pope Can no body know what the Apostles spake or wrote except them who were present at their preaching or writing Or can no body be sure that the Bible is truly printed vnles he himselfe correct the Print I grant that you who deny the certainty of Traditions haue cause to belieue nothing beside what you see or heare But we acknowledge Traditions and so must you vnles you will question both the preaching and writing of the Apostles And beside hearing or seeing there are other meaning as History Letters true Relations of many and the like And thus we haue answered all your obiections against the fallibility of the Church Councels and Pope without descending to particular Controuersies which are disputed off among Catholiques without breach of fayth or Vnity But heere I must put you in mind that you haue left out many things in the sixt Chapter of Charity Mistaken against your promise notwithstanding that to answere it alone you haue imployed your third fourth and fifth Section You haue omitted pag. 44 what it is that maketh men to be of the same Religiō pag. 46. diuers differences betwixt you vs as about the Canon of Scripture fiue Sacraments necessity of Baptisme and reall presence vnwritten Traditions Primacy of S. Peter Iudge of Controuersies Prayer to Saints and for the soules in Purgatory and so that we are on both sides resolued to persist in these differēces c. Why did you not say one word to all these particulars Why did you not answere to his example of the Quartadecimani who were ranked for Heretiques although their error was not Fundamentall in your acception as also to his example of rebaptizing Heretiques for which the Donatists were accounted Heretiques although the errour be not of it selfe fundamentall The same I say of his Example drawne from the Nouatian Heretiques And of his reason that if disobedience to the Church were not the rule wherby heresies schismes must be knowne it were impossible to conclude what were an Heresy or Schisme As also to his Assertion proued out of S. Thomas that error against any one reuealed truth destroyeth all fayth c. But necessity hath no law you were forced to dissemble what you knew not how to answere CHAP. VI. THIS Section is chiefly emploied in relating some debates betweene Catholiques and is soone answered by distinguishing betweene a potentiall and actuall Vnity that is we deny not but that Controuersies may arise amongst Catholique Doctours as well for matters concerning practise as speculation But still we haue a Iudge to whose known determinations we hold our selues obliged to submit our vnderstanding and will whereas your debates must of necessity be endles because you acknowledge no subiectiō to any visible liuing Iudge whome you hold to be infallible in his determinations All the instances which you alledge agaynst vs proue this and no more For some of them concerne points not expresly defined by the Church Others touch vpon matters of fact and as it were suites of Law in the Catholique Clergy of England wherein you ought rather to be edifyed then to obiect thē as any way preiudicial to the Vnity of faith because Pope Clement the 8. in his tyme and our holy Father Vrban the VIII could and did by their decrees end those Controuersies forbid writing Bookes on all sides 2. I wonder you will like some of the country Ministers tell vs that we haue enlarged the Creed of Christians one moyty And to proue it you cite the Bull of Pius Quintus which is properly no Creed but a Profession of our faith And if this be to enlarge the Creed your Church in her 39. Articles hath enlarged the twelue Articles of the Apostles Creed more then one moyty thrice told For the Church makes no new Articles of fayth as you must likewise say in defence of your Church-Articles Was the Creed of Nice or of S. Athanasius c. new Creeds because they explicate old truths by a new word of Homousion or Consubstantiall It is pretty that you bring Pappus and Flaccus flat Heretiques to proue our many Contradictions Your comparing the Decrees of the Sacred Councell of Trent which you say that both the Dominicans and Iesuites pretend to fauour their contrary opinions to the Deuill in the old oracles is by your leaue wicked which you might vpon the same pretense as blasphemously apply to the holy Scriptures which all Heretiques though neuer so contrary in themselues do alledge as fauouring them Which is a sufficient Argument to shew against Protestants that no writing though neuer so perfect can be a sufficient Iudge to decide Controuersies And you were ill aduised to make this obiection against the Councell of Trent since in his Maiesties Declaration before the 39. Articles printed 1631. it is said We take comfort in this that euen in those curious points in which the present differences lye men of all sorts take the Articles of the Church of England to be for them And it is worthy the obseruation that the difference betwixt the Dominicans and Iesuits who as you say do both pretend to haue the Councell of Trent on their sides is concerning a Question which you conceiue to be the same with that which is disputed among Protestants and in which Protestants of all sorts take the Articles of the Church of England to be for them Your demand why the Pope determines not that Controuersy betwixt the Dominicans and Iesuits might as well be made against the whole Ancient Church which did not determine all Controuersies at once nor on a sudden but after long and mature deliberation sooner or latter as occasion did require In the meane time the Pope hath commanded that neither part censure the other and his Command is most religiously obserued by them with a readines to submit their Iudgment when the holy Ghost shall inspire him to decree it one way or other And who assured you that the point wherin these learned men differ is a reuealed truth or capable of definition or is
is cleere by his other ensuing words in the same place We ought not then to approue by our consent all things which we reade in the Scriptures to haue been done by men euen adorned with praises by the testimony of God himselfe but to mingle our consideration with discretion bringing discretion with vs not grounded vpon our owne Authority but vpon the Authority of the holy and diuine Scriptures which permit not vs to praise or imitate all the actions euen of those of whom the Scripture giues good and glorious Testimony if they haue done any thing that hath not been well done or that agreeth not with the consent of the present time In which words we see S. Augustine calls the Bookes of the Machabees Scriptures euen as afterward he cals Canonicall Bookes in generall Diuine and holy Scriptures and that the Sobriety of Circumspection which he aduiseth to be obserued in reading them is not how far they be true or false but whether the example of Razias recounted by them is to be imitated more or lesse What you alledge out of S. Gregory (o) Moral lib. 19. ç. 17. is easily answered For he doth not call the Machabees not Canonicall as if he would exclude them from the number of true and diuine Scriptures but because they were not in the Canon of the Iewes or in that which he had at hand when he wrote his first draught of his Commentaries vpon Iob For he was at that time the Popes Nuncius or Legate at Constantinople and the Greeke Rapsody of African Canons had vntruly put out of the Canon the two Bookes of the Machabees though they were receiued in Africa as Canonicall by the decree of the African Councell And therfore you were ill aduised vnder colour of commending Pope Gregory but indeed the more to impugne vs by his authority to write Greg M. or Magnus the Great wheras he was not Pope but only Deacon when he first wrote those Commentaries vpon Iob. 19. You cite S. Hierome praefat in lib. Salom. The Church reades the Bookes of Iudith Tobias and the Machabees but she doth not receiue them among Canonicall writings But S. Hieromes words are these As the Church reades Tobias Iudith and the Machabees but receiues them not among the Canonicall Bookes so may she read Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people but not for the confirmation of Ecclesiasticall doctrines Thus S. Hierome And you had reason to cite his words by halues For he afterward retracted what he said of the Bookes of Iudith and Tobias with which the Machabees are yet ioyned in the words cited by you saying in his Preface vpon the History of Iudith The Booke of Iudith is read by the Hebrewes among the Hagiographs whose authority is esteemed lesse sufficient to decide Controuersies but for as much as the Councell of Nice hath reckoned it among the holy Scriptures I haue obeyed your request Where you see that S. Hierome affirmes that the most ancient and graue Councell of Nice receiued the Booke of Iudith in that sense in which the Iewes did not receiue it consequently as a Booke esteemed sufficient to decide Controuersies which the Iewes denied And in another place the same Father sayth Ruth Hester and Iudith haue beene (q) Ep. 140. so glorious as they haue giuen their names into the sacred Volumes Where you see that S. Hierome placeth Iudith with Ruth and Hester the former wherof you admit for Canonicall and part of the latter In his Preface vpon the Booke of Tobias he sayth The Hebrewes (r) Ep. 100. cut off the Booke of Tobias from the Catalogue of the diuine Scriptures And againe The iealousy of the Iewes doth accuse vs that against their Canon we translate the Booke of Tobias into Latin but I iudge it better to displease the iudgment of the Pharisees and to obey the Commandment of the Bishops And elsewhere he placeth (t) In Jsa c. 23. the Machabees among Canonicall Bookes saying The Scripture reports that Alexander king of the Macedonians came out of the land of Cethim And wonder not if S. Hierome spake not alwayes in the same manner of the Canon of the Old Testament since vpon experience examination and knowledge of the sense of the Church he might alter his Opinion as once he said of the Epistle to the Hebrewes that it (u) Ad Panlinum was put out of the number by the greatest part of men and yet elsewhere he receiues it (w) Ep. ad Dardanum as the Epistle of S. Paul And if you will haue a generall explication of S. Hierome concerning his reiecting of Bookes not admitted by the Hebrewes heare it in his owne words Wheras I haue reported (x) Ad◠Russ Apolog 2. what the Hebrewes vsed to obiect against the History of Susanna and the Hymne of the three Children and the Story of the Dragon Bell which are in the Hebrew I haue not declared what I thought but what the Iewes were wont to say against vs. And he cals Ruffinus a foolish Sycophant for charging him with the opinion of the Hebrewes about these parts of Daniel And S. Hierome explayning himselfe in this manner is acknowledged by (y) Answer to Burges pag. 87. Couell and (z) Conference before his Maiesty Bankeroft How then will you excuse your Church which in her sixt Article sayth in generall of all the Bookes which you esteeme Apochryphall among which are the History of Susanna the Hymne of the three Children and that of the Dragon The other Bookes as Hierome sayth the Church doth reade for example of life and instruction of manners but yet it doth not apply them to establish any doctrine How can she I say be excused since S. Hierome euen according to the Confession of your owne Brethren doth explaine himselfe that he vttered only what the Iewes were wont to say against vs and cals Ruffinus a foolish Sycophant for saying the contrary So as insteed of S. Hierome and the Church of God you put on the person of Ruffinus against S. Hierome and of the Synagogue against the Church of Christ our Lord so your whole Canon of the old Testament relies vpon the Authority of the Iewes And finally D. Potter while he grants that Catholiques and Protestants disagree about the very Canon of Scripture forgets to answere what Charity-Mistaken pag. 43. 46. doth thence inferre to wit that they cannot be accounted of one and the same Religion Fayth and Church 20. The Chymericall Church of your (b) Pag. 234. Maister D. Vsher consisting of men agreeing only in fundamentall points is indeed a Chymera or non Ens. For it is impossible that there can be a visible Church which professing fundamentall points doth not in other points eyther agree with vs or you or els disagrees from vs both For eyther they must hold for example the Reall Presence Transubstantiati Prayer for the dead and to Saints Worship of Images Supremacy
of the Pope Sufficiency of one kind for the Layty c. and then they agree with vs Or els they deny all these points and so agree with you against vs. And this is that pernicious fallacy wherby you deceiue your selfe and others as if there were a visible Catholique Church or company of men holding all fundamentall points and being neither Romane Catholiques nor Lutherans nor Caluinists c. nor any other Church in particular which is a meere impossible fiction For Fayth is not Fayth vnles it extend to all points sufficiently propounded as diuine Truths the least wherof if any one deny he giues his Fayth a deadly wound and his seeming Beliefe of other Articles auailes him nothing To which purpose this saying of S. Augustine is remarkable If a man grieuously wounded (c) De Baptism cont Donatist l. 1. c. 8. in some necessary part of his body be brought to a Phisitian and the Phisitian say if he be not dressed he will dye I thinke they who brought him will not be so sensles as to answere the Phisitian after they haue considered and viewed his other parts which are sound What shall not so many sound parts haue power to preserue him aliue And shall one wounded part haue power to bring him to his death In vaine then do you flatter your selues with a seeming sound beliefe of the Articles of the Creed if in the meane time you receiue a deadly wound by opposing any one truth reuealed by God and propounded by the true Catholique Church For as all the liuing members of a mans body are so vnited in one life that a deadly blow receiued immediately but in one doth necessarily redound to the destruction of all so all the obiects of fayth being vnited in the same Formall Motiue of Gods testimony sufficiently propounded to vs the deniall or wounding of any one truth which is vested with that formall Motiue and life of fayth doth ineuitably redound to the death and destruction of all the rest When by this occasion you cite our late soueraigne Lord king Iames affirming that (d) Epïst Casauboni ad Card. Per. ad Obseruat 3. the things which are simply necessary to be belieued are but few in number and yet that all things are simply necessary which the word of God commands vs to belieue it had beene your duty to explaine the contrariety which appeares betwixt those two sayings For since the word of God commands vs to belieue euery Proposition contained in holy Scripture which are many thousands how are the things necessary to be belieued but few in number 21. But now I must put you in mind of not performing your promise not to omit any one thing of moment For besides other you omit to set downe what Charity Mistaken writes (e) Pag. 73. about the true sense of the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall which if you had set downe as he deliuers it it had cleerly appeared how through your whole Booke you had still auoyded the true State and point of the Question To which purpose you conceale in particular what he alleageth out of D. Dunne late Deane of S. Paules who hauing put great strength in the distinction of Fundamentall and not Fundamentall points he wipes out with a wet finger the whole substance of his discourse by saying That (f) Pag. 96. difference in points which are not important is not to preiudice a mans saluation vnles by not belieuing them he commits a disobedience withall as certainely euery one doth who denies any least point sufficiently propoūded to him as reuealed by God whosoeuer that Propounder be For sayth he Obedience indeed (g) Pag. 97. is of the Essence of Religion The Conclusion AND thus hauing in this Second Part answered the particulars in D. Potters Booke and hauing proued in the First Part that this truth Amongst men of different Religions one onely side can be saued is so euidently true as no Christian that vnderstands the termes can call it in question in so much as if any will goe about to persuade the contrary we must say with S. Augustine He doth erre (a) De Cinit Dei l. 21. cap. 17. so much the more absurdly and against the true word of God more peruersly by how much he seemeth to himselfe to iudge more charitably It cannot but appeare how much it importeth euery soule to seeke out that one sauing Truth which can be found only in the true Visible Catholique Church of Christ Wherfore our greatest care must be to find out that one true Church which we shall be sure not to misse if our endeauour be not wanting to his grace who desires that (b) 1. Tim. 2.4 all men should be saued and come to the knowledge of the TRVTH For the words of the sacred Councell of Trent are most true God commands not (c) Sest 6. cap. 11. impossible things but by commanding warnes thee both to do what thou art able to aske what thou art not able and helpes thee that thou maist be able Let not men therfore flatter and deceiue themselues that Ignorance will excuse them For if they want any one thing absolutely necessary to saluation Ignorance cannot excuse And there are so many and so easy and yet withall so powerfull meanes to finde the true Church that it is a most dangerous and pernicious error to rely vpon the excuse of inuincible Ignorance And I wish them to consider that he can least hope for reliefe by Ignorance who once confides therin because his very alledging of Ignorance sheweth that God hath put some thoughts into his mind of seeking the safest way which if he relying on Gods grace do carefully and constantly endeauour to examine discusse and perfect he shall not faile to find what he seekes and to obtaine what he askes Neither will the search proue so hard and intricate as men imagine For as God hath confined saluation within the Communion of his Visible Church so hath he endued her with so conspicuous Markes of Vnity and agreement in doctrine Vniuersality for Time and Place a neuer interrupted Succession of Pastors a perpetuall Visibility from the Apostles to vs c. far beyond any probable pretence that can be made by any other Congregations that whosoeuer doth seriously and vnpartially weigh these Notes may easily discerne to what Church they belong But all this diligence must be vsed with perfect indifferency and constant resolution to proceed in this affaire which is the most important of all other as at the hower of their death and the day of their finall accompt they would wish to haue done For nothing can counterpoyse an Eternity of Felicity or Misery Their Prayer will be much holpen with Almes-deeds offered to this intention of obtaining Light of Almighty God according to that saying of the Prophet Esay Breake thy bread (d) Cap. 58. V. 7. ◠to the hungry and needy and harbourles when thou shalt see
is truer when it is confirmed by the Church What say you now Doth Bellarmine teach that the Truth or certainety of Scripture or of the Minor in the foresaid Syllogisme depeÌ„ds on the Church But in the meane time how many corruptions haue you committed in this one Citation 15. You cite (g) pag. 149. Waldâ—â—si to proue that the (h) Walden lib. 2. Doct. fid art 2. cap. 19. §. 1. infallibility of the Church is planted only in the Church vniuersall or the Catholique Body of Christ on earth comprehending all his members But though we cannot allow of Waldensis his doctrine in some points wherin he contradicts the consent of other Catholiques yet he doth not teach what you affirme but only that the infallibility of the Church consists in the succession of Doctors in the Church which is against your assertion Pag. 150. that the whole Militant Church that is all the members of it cannot possibly erre c. And therfore the doctrine of Waldensis is sufficient for our maine Question against you that whosoeuer erreth in any one point deliuered by Doctours and Pastours succeeding one another in the visible Church is an Heretique and without repentance cannot be saued whether the point be of it selfe fundamentall or not fundamentall For Waldensis maketh no such distinction as you do Nay which is directly against your present Assertion heere and your doctrine els where this Author doctrinal fidei tom 1. Art 2. cap. 47. hauing prefixed this Title before that Chapter That the Pope hath infringible power to determine verities of fayth and to ouercome and cancell all hereticall falsities doth in the whole Chapter it selfe prosecute and proue the said Title out of the Fathers And to the next Chapter 48. hauing also giuen this Title Of the Prerogatiue of the perpetuall immunity and purity of the Romane Church from all contagion of Heresy he proues it in like manner through the whole Chapter You must therfore be well aduised how you cite Authors out of one place without considering or enquiring what they say in another 16. Together with Waldensis you cite Syluester saying The Church which is (i) Summa verb. Ecclesia çap. 1. §. 4. affirmed not to be capable of error is not the Pope but the Congregation of the faythfull But this is a plaine falsification For in that very place he teacheth That the Pope vsing the Councell of Cardinals or his members cannot erre but may erre as he is a particular person And then adds In this manner is to be vnderstood the Glosse Caus 24. q. 1. can à recta which sayth the Church which cannot erre is not the Pope but the Congregation of the faythfull So as you see that these are not the words of Syluester as you affirme but of another which yet he interprets plainely against you And that you may be wholy inexcusable he doth heer referre himselfe to another place namely Verb. Concilium § 3. where he expresly proues that a Councell caÌ„not erre no more then the Church because if the Councell could erre the whole Church might erre For the Church doth not meet togeather but only the Councell or the Pope Adding further that the doctrine of the Church vpon which S. Thomas sayth we are to rely as vpon an infallible Rule is no other then that of the Councell And as for the Pope he sayth that we must not stand to the Popes declaration because he hath better reasons then can be alleaged to the contrary but because he is Head of the Church whose office is to determine doubts in fayth And a little after he expressy sayth That the Pope cannot erre when recourse is made to him in doubtfull matters as to the Head of the Church because sayth he this errour would redound to the errour of the whole Church And likewise in this very place of Syluester which you cite he also referres himselfe to Verb. fides § 2. where at large he proues the Popes infallibility saying That it belongeth to fayth that we rely vpon the Popes determination in things belonging to fayth or manners because the Church cannot erre in such things and consequently he as head of the Church that is as he is Pope cannot erre although he determined without aduice of the Cardinals With what conscience then do you cite this Author against his words meaning and designe and ascribe to him words which he citeth out of another and as I said explicates against you And with the like fidelity after Syluester you do strangely alledge the Glosse Caus 24 can à recta with an Et as if the words which you cited out of Syluester The Church which cannot erre is not the Pope c. had been different from that Glosse wheras they are nothing but that Glosse and not the words of Syluester 17. They you meane Catholique Doctours grant that the infallibility of the Church reacheth not (k) pag. 14â— to all questions and points in Religion that may arise but only to such Articles as may belong to the substance of fayth such as are matters essentiall and fundamentall simply necessary for the Church to know and belieue To omit others D. Stapleton is full (l) Princip Doctr. lib 8. contr 4. çap. 15. and punctuall to this purpose He distinguisheth Controuersies of ReligioÌ„ into two sorts Some sayth he are about those doctrines of fayth which necessarily pertayne to the publique fayth of the Church others about such matters as doe not necessarily belong to the fayth but may be variously held disputed without hurt or preiudice of fayth Heer is such a Caos of words and corruptions as I scarce know where to beginne to vnfold them Stapleton in the place by you alledged hath this Assertion The infallibility of teaching in matters of fayth granted to the Church hath place only in defining infallibly and proposing faithfully those doctrines of fayth which eyther are called in question or otherwise belong necessarily to the publique fayth of the Church And afterward he affirmeth that those things belong necessarily to fayth and publique doctrine of the Church which all men are bound explicitely to belieue or els are publikely practised by the Church or els which the Pastours are bound to belieue explicitely and the people implicitely in the fayth of their Pastours By which words it is cleere that Stapleton sayth not that the infallibility of the Church reacheth only to such Articles as are matters essentiall and fundamentall and simply necessary for the Church to know and belieue as you affirme but to all points which are called in question or which are publiquely practised by the Church whether they be fundamentall or not fundamentall and therfore you do misalledge him when you say that he distinguisheth Controuersies of Religion into two sorts Some are about those doctrines of fayth which necessarily pertaine to the publique fayth of the Church c. For Stapleton explicates himselfe as you haue heard that whatsoeuer is called in