speak playn to simple mens understanding but al the holy Prophets and Apostles could not or would not speak to the capacitie of the simple so you make them the greatest deceivers of soules in the world a pagan mought justly scorn our heavenly law if it be a leaden rule a nos◠of wax◠as some have blasphemed it But hogs esteme draffe better then pearls though the wisdom of God powreth out her minde unto them yet in them is fulfilled the true proverb wherfore is ther a price in the hand of the fool to get wisdom he hath none hart Prov 17. 16. But where may we think to find the place of wisdom if it be not in the Prophets Apostles writings For touching these points you speak of if a man read the late Fathers Augustine Ambrose the rest he shall find them often dark difficult intricate contradicting themselves sometimes and one another And if he compare your Popes determinations with the holy scriptures he shall find as good agreement as between harp and harrow For example Gods plain law sayth Thou shalt not make to thy self a graven thing or any similitude of things that are in heaven above or in earth beneath c. thou shalt not bow down to them neyther serv them and agayn Cursed be the man that shal make a graven or a molten thing the abomination of the Lord the work of the hands of the artificer and shal set it in a secret place al the people shal answer and say Amen These evident scriptures may perswade every simple hart that it is a fearful syn to make worship similitudes of God of Christ and of Saincts departed or any the like Now let him come to your catholik churches interpretation and read your Cardinals glosse that such scriptures reprechend idolatrie that is to say the worshiping of images which are esteemed for Gods or by which they are worshiped for Gods which indeed are not but as for the Images of Christ of saincts they are to be worshiped and not onely by accident unproperly but also by themselves and properly so as they doe terminate or end the worship as in themselves they are considered and not onely as they bear the part of the exemplar or person represented and let him read your learned distinctions of the worship latria the worship dulia and hyperdulia and other like schole points digged out of the abisme of the rock of Rome the man wil be amazed to find such comments upō such a text and make him ween his witts be not his own But I make no doubt ther be thowsands and ten thowsands upon earth that if they read Moses law and your churches comments upō this point they wil say Moses is surer and playner easier to understand then your Cardinal a great deal And as of this so of other things many that to leav the scriptures and rely upon your church determinations were to blow out the candle that men may see by the snuff Moreover if that cannot be an indeficient rule of faith wherin some things ar hard to be understood then doubtlesse your ◠assertion is overthrown which sayth that the scriptures expounded by the catholik church is a true indeficient rule of our faith For by the catholik church you mean the Roman Ch◠and in the Roman church you restreyn al to the Pope now his expositiō dooth often times as wel clear the truth as a cloud before the sun Yea even the playnest places which in holy writ are as bright as noon day your church hath enveloped with AEgyptian darknes as Mariage honorable among al and the bed undefiled sayth the text Heb. 13. 4. If among all sayth * your glosse comprehendeth al men wholly then mariage shal be honorable also between father and daughter betweē mother and son between brother and sister c. Drink ye al of this sayth our saviour Let a man examine himself sayth the Apostle and so let him eat of this bread drink of this cup. We yet see not sayth your quick eyed Cardinal that place of the gospel wher we be taught that both parts of the sacrament of our Lords supper are to be ministred to al Christians For our Lord sayth not Drink ye al Christians of this but drink ye al of this c. Such catholik expositiōs doe illustrate the scriptures as the smoke of the pit did the sun aier Apoc. 9. 2. But me thinks you deney that the Pope hath dominion over your faith neyther can make what he wil as a matter of faith or tradition He dooth not make a matter of faith you say but beelareth onely that such and such a thing is to be beleeved It is wel if you can keep you here for if he be but a declarer of the faith he is by office but as al other Bishops and ministers of the Gospel and Peters primacie wil be no more then Pauls who sayd Let a man so think of us as of the ministers of Christ disposers or stewards of the mysteries of God But if the Pope have not indeed dominion over your faith then I trow men may trie his declarations by Christs word who hath dominion over our faith and sowles Then are not the Popes declarations authentik canonical of necessitie to be beleeved unlesse he prove them by the scriptures which himself acknowledgeth to be divine and canonical And thus the scriptures wil be found a sufficient rule of the Churches faith men must by the word and spirit trye the spirits of the Popes as wel as of other Bishops Otherweise when Pope Stephen the 6. repealed the decrees of P. Formosus and condemned his acts and contrariweise P. Romanus and other his successors justified Formosus and condemned Stephen and yet after that agayn P. Sergius the 3. allowed Stephen and cōdemned Formosus as your own records doo report how should men know what Popes decrees to follow if they may not examine them by the book of God nor have better stay for their faith then the wethercock of the Vatican And wheras you speak of all humane helps that the Pope useth of counsel and consultation with the learned they be fayr shewes but your Cardinal tels us that the catholik church hath alwayes beleeved that he is a true ecclesiastical Prince in the whol church who can of his own auctoritie vvithout consent of the people or counsel of Preists make lavves vvhich bind the conscience can judge in causes ecclesiastical c. and that vvhen he teacheth the vvhol church in things perteyning to faith he can not err by any hap or chance and not onely in matters of faith but in preceps of manners also prescribed to the vvhol church he cannot err What marvel is it then though your Lavvyers say His bare vvill must be holden as a lavv and that whatsoever he dooth no man
was no private but the most publik spirit of God without which no scripture can be vvel interpreted And vvhere you say S. Peter was head of that council you passe the boundes of the text vvhich shevves no such thing Christ vvas the head and he guided them by his holy spirit Peter after much disputation shevved his mind grounded upon the vvorks and lavv of the Lord Barnabas and Paul confirmed the same by their ovvn experience then Iames confirmed Symon Peters speech by the vvords of the Prophets thereupon gave sentence or judgment vvhat should be doon vvherto the Apostles and Elders vvith the vvhole church agreed Wherefore if any man vvere head reason vvould lead us to think lames rather then Simeon vvas the man Thus the decree had povver and force from Gods vvord vvhich by the holy Ghost vvas serched scanned manifested of the Apostles and Elders vvas approved and consented to of the vvhole Church there the Apostles Elders and brethren all vvhich and not Simon alone sayd It seemed good to the Holy ghost and to us And that all care and diligence should be used to decide controversies by the vvord of God I acknovvledgâ— but to deney Gods vvord vvhich you call bare and naked though it be gloriously arayed vvith al ornaments of the spirit to be an infalâ—ible rule of truth is farr from my hart and farr from being proved by these your allegations But you shut up your argument thus Therfore let S. Peter himself conclude that no prophesie of scripture that is no interpretation as the holy Fathers interprâ—t to made by a private spirits interpretation But the Apostle concludes not your purpose that Gods word or scrâ—pâ—ure is not an infallible rule of truth therfore you are nothing hâ—lpenâ—â— this text though you constreyn it to spâ—aâ— otherwâ—isâ— then the auctor 〈◊〉 it downe which was not is you say by a private spirit 〈…〉 but of ones own interpretation or of it own explication or 〈◊〉 This speech dooth no whit disprove the auctoritie sufficiencie or iâ—â—â—llibilitie of the prophesies of scripture which the Apostle before did approve vâ—râ— 19. Therfore this standeth still firm against you thâ—t Gods bare word meaning without the raggs of mens inventions is aâ— infallible rule of truth but how this infallible rule is to be used interpreted applyed c. is a second consideration And though I would not swery from the question yet to help you what I may I will speak a litle of that which you allege If by 〈◊〉 spirit you mean an humane spirit or the spirit natural in man I grant it no prophesie of scripture is of private or of a mâ—â—s own interpretation he can not by all his wâ—t learning or industrie explane it without the spirit of God If you mean a private mans interpretation as that no privat man can interprete any prophesie I deney it For the publick man with you is the Pop he interprets all having his supposed soveraigntie from Peter But if all other be private men save Peter and his successors the Popes then doe you injurie to all the other Apostles Prophets Evang lists Pastors and Teachers at that time and in ages since as if they without Peter or the Pope could not interpret any prophâ—sie of scripture It is also against your own Bishops Preists Iesuits and against your self for none of you but the publick spirit of the Pope onely can interpret any scripture which if it be so why medle you now with controversies about the scriptures against me seing you can give but a private spirits interpretation which the Apostle in your own judgment condemneth If all Church officers be exempted from the private number and are amongâ—th publick and may all interpret then will your Pope have â—â—le privilege from this place above other Bishops Or if you think that no private that is as you speak no 〈◊〉 man can interpret any prophesie of scripture you doo injurie to Gods people or lâ—itie For were not all the laie oâ— people of the church in Corâ—â—th willed to covet spiritual gifâ—s and rather that they might prophesie which all of them might perform in the church Doth not the wind blow where it lysteth Gods spirit breath on whoÌ„ he pleaseth Prophesies of scripture never were of propre or private interpretation yet Christ a carpenters son brought up unlettered nâ—yther Preist nor Levite but a laie man in Israel was permitted to interprete the prophesies of scripture publikly and Câ—iaphas himself cavillâ—d not against him as being a private spirit The Apostles also were unlettered and private men yet were they not for that forbidden to interpret scriptures but if they lived in your church it seemes they should Consider I pray you of these things and the Lord give you understanding But you procede with this matter and thirdly you argue and by your argument as you say break the force of a pretended answer thus Not onely scriptures by themselves are not sufficient to prove what is canonical and what is not but also that scriptures helped by private mens interpretation are not sufficient to prove the same I see this your proposition but I see no proof in sted of that you digresse to complayn that the poorest handycrafts man c is allowed to interpret the hardest places of scripture But all this proveth not the point in hand namely that the scripture is not a sufficieÌ„t rule of our faith For this it may be and is how ever men err in expounding it Of this point I have spoken before your assertion is not an argument and if ther were but a pretended answer yet your bare position would not break the force of it the yron is blunt and you have not whet the edge therfore you must put to more strength Fourthly you argue thus That which by the lights and lanterns of your opinions hath been wronged in the highest degree to bolster vp heresies cannot be a true and indeficient rule of faith The assumption is a rhetorical flourish for what more 〈…〉 quent say you with hereâ—iâ—s then at their fingers ends to 〈◊〉 places of scripture c. And here you mention divers points and persons and then without conclusion passe on to an other argument The assumption which is personal touching Luther Calvin c and unjustly bâ—nt against us I leave to strive about and could requite you with the like of your Popes and Prelates who have wronged the scripture not in the least degree Your proposition I deney for though men wrong the word of God never so much eyther ignorantly or wilfully yet is the word never the worse not lesse sufficient rule of faith The Preists in Israel wrested the law by which they should haue taught the people yet was the law in it self a true and indeficient rule of faith to which the Prophets referred the people and blamed those that
at his mouth If he wrest the law and teach false doctrine men should let him alone as a blind guide least they fal with him into the ditch But herein you misse proportion in making many common weales and but one church wheras there be also many churches For though there be but one catholik or vniversall church which is invisible comprehending the whole familie in heaven and in earth yet are there many particular churches visible as in Galatia in Asia and other partes of the world Now you imagine one visible catholik or vniversal church having visible officers and a visible head the Pope invested as praesident Vrbiet Orbi all the world over and all particular churches with their Bishops to be under the guidance of that visible head This is neyther according to God who appointed no such order nor according to man for is ther any one Monarch over all the world unto whom all nations vvith their governours doo obey Your conclusion is vvorst of all For by Peters successor you mean the Bishop of Rome onely Wheras Peter being an Apostle had no successor in his Apostleship as he vvas Bishop or Pastor all Bishops in all churches are his successors and not onely the Bishop of Rome 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. Act. 20. 28. Againe you vveen that your Pope is necessarily indued with the holy ghost vvheras the starr of the Roman church as vvel as of any other church may fall from heaven and may have the key of the bottomlesse pitt And vvhy Rome should have preeminence above all other cities in the vvorld I cannot tell unlesse because â— by her policie our Lord Christ was crucified For which above all other cities she deserves the visible curse And if God in justice hath wasted Ierusalem for this syn how can we think that he hath blessed Rome which hath spilt the blood of Christ and of may other his Saincts The book of the Apocalyps shewes plainly the contrary Apoc. 17. 18. Agayn you would lay an intollerable burden upon the churches for every synner is to be judged and excommunicated if he repent not by that particular church wherof he is a member as is Christs playn rule Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. compared with 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. 12. 13. but you applying Christs rule to Rome onely would constreyn al men al over the world when they deal with their brethren for syn and folow them to excommunicatio they not repenting to come to Rome before the Pope which is unpossible Othâ—rweise by what rule from Christ cite you men thither Wherfore you conclude that which your premisses no way do prove beg the question to gayn the time But you are angrie that I Ieav your supplie of later Doctors wheras I told you playnly at the first that I would trie and be tried in religion by the holy scriptures onely as being the undoubted rule of truth If you would not thus have dealt why began you the battel I have far greater cause to except against them then you can have against my records of the Prophets Apostles for your fathers are but children in respect of theÌ„ nothing so ancient nothing so authentik in any comparison nothing so playn nothing so constant but contrary one to an other contrary some times unto the truth contrary to themselves Example by Augustine plainly averring with me you bring him retracting or leaving indifferent How then should we trust him that trusteth not himself So I told you Doctors mought be alleged against Doctors you marvel at it Nay marvell at them at your self that allege them You quote Chrysostom homil 55 in Mat. and there though these be not the words you mean he savth vpon this rock wil I build my Church that is faith and confession whither this make more for you or for me let indifferent men judge You cite Origen homil 5. in ExoduÌ„ wheras if you would read him on Matthew you may find how he counteth al Christians Peters which the Pope wil not allow You produce Ambrose serm 47. wheras the same man upon Ephes. 2. sayth vpon this rock wil I build my church that is in this confession of the catholik faith I appoint the faithfull unto life Thus if I would weary my self and my reader in your wildeâ—nes I could send you up and down from one father to an other from the same father in one place to himself in another as for Hillarie whom you quote I may cite â—yssenus in testimon ex vet Test. de Trinitate and from Cyril l. 2. c. 1â— comment in Ioan. as you alledge him I can direct you to the same Cyril de Trinitat l. 4. And when now shal we get out of this wood But wander you there alone if you wil I mean not so to toyl in vayn Yet coÌ„demn I not the men but reverence their labours how â—eit I reverence Gods word more As for me I would not have you or any rest upon my words but upon the proofs which I bring from the book of God which though it be litle yet they that eat it may prophesie among people and nations and tongues and to many kings And me thinks you need not be offended that I refuse to fight with dead men and doo deal vvith you by the scriptures onely for you have as you may think the advantage vvho besides my weapon that single two edged sword of Gods vvord which you may use also as you can have likevveise to help you the arrovves of the Fathers the halberds of the Councils the bullets of your schole men the canons of your Canonists vvith the panoplie of your Popes froÌ„ vvhom all Bishops as a Byshop sayth doe grovv as members grow from the head and of whose fulnes they doe all receiv that if my cause be not very good you must needs drive me out of the feild Vse therefore if you please the reasons of all or any of these and I vvil ansvver them to you not to the dead but if you muster their bare names onely be sure you shal neyther fray nor hurt me Next you retire to the place of Iohn 21. feed my sheep I told you al the Apostles had that charge Mat. 28. 19. 20 Iohn 20. 21. The contrary you say is manifest since he sayd onely to him feed my flock to whoÌ„ he said before lovest thou me more then they in which words he excludeth al the other Think you in good sooth that the former charge layd upoÌ„ all vvas taken from them novv layd vpon Peter onely because upon special occasion he vvas spoken to alone Why then Peter also vvas himself discharged vvhen after this Christ spake to Paul alone sending him to the gentils to open their eyes c. to preach the gospel But it is a strange collection of you that vvhen a company of men are sent vvith one commission and one of them
in some mathematical instrument makes a mans sight and judgment quite contrarie as appeareth in the vse of the Astrolabe or crosse staffe So I say the least error in any of these transcendental doctrinal points doth shake the whole body of beleef 65. You say the matters are hard but the places that treats of them are easie as though in such short wordes of poincts that desire so many hundred quires of paper to examine them they can be easie as though the wordes doe not befit the matter And that not onely the matter but that also the manner of penning is difficult appeares out of S Augustin 2. lib. de doctrina Christ. et epist. 119 and S. Ambrose epistola 44 in principio acknowledgeth the difficulties he had to understand the manner of writing of scripture And S. Hier to Paul epist. 103. c. 5. 6 7. et epist. 65. c. 1. confesseth that in his old age when rather he should teach then be taught he went as farr as Alexandria onely to heare Didymus and to have his help to understand the scriptures And S. Augustin in his epistle 119. c. 21. acknowledgeth that there were more things he understood not then that he did understand 66. That of Proverb 8 8. 9. is to be understood eyther of general doctrine or of precepts of maners and good life and so Gods words are easie which explication we give you as a iewel unto your hand to that cited of you Prover 17 16. Wherfore is ther price in the hand of a fool c. 67. Then you seem ingeniously to graunt the scriptures to be hard but you instance that the determinations of the Pope doth make theÌ„ harder You say Exod. 20. Deut. 25 15. Images are absolutely and plainly prohibited here But I deny it and prove that idols are onely here prohibited and not images Which that of the brafen serpent proves that as long as it was an image it was erected and kept by Gods commandement but when it grew to be an idol when the people began to adore it as God as S. August notes in his 10. lib. de civitat Dei c. 8. Ezechiaâ— 4. ReguÌ„ 18. broke it into peeces And that of the 2. of Cor. 6 proves as much 〈◊〉 that place can not be understood of images but of idole for the temple was adorned with Cherubins which were images And therefore it must be read How agreeth the Temple of God with idolls and not with images as you commonly read and translate But I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you as S. Ierom sayes in c. 25. Eze. of the 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 that were idolatrous Gentiles that comm 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 and seing the propitiatorie shadowed over 〈…〉 Cherubims 〈…〉 as the Gentiles so Judah also hath 〈…〉 then religion they putting no more difference between the Gentiles heathenish idols and the Jewes lawful images then you 68. As for your wilfull error in citing of Cardinal Bellarmines probable opinion as the determination of the Pope I must much blame you But you may know that both his opinion and the different opinion of Ga Dasques are both probable in schooles As for the subtile and most true distinction of the worship of Latria Dulia and Hyperdulia must needes seem strange and insipidd to him that never tasted peradventure one grain of the salt of the Universities or one line of the schoolmen 69. Yet here you take upon you like a great â—abbin that I say the Pope cannot make of himself a matter of faith but that he onely declareth what is a matter of faith and that such a thing is to be beleeved It is well you say that I hold me here But then you inferâ— that the Pope can doe no more then other Bishops and Peters primacie will be no more then Pauls which you prove 1. Cor. 4 1. So let a man esteeme us as the Ministers of Christ the dispensers of the mysteries of God I answer they be all alike in power of order but not of jurisdiction and in a juditiall determination to settle controversies in the Church of God which appeareth in that in the councel of Chalcedon that had determined the matter controverted and 630. Bishops having subscribed the Popes Legates being also present in that Councell having defined and judged with the rest what needed then a solemne ratification by the Popes own letters to confirm the Councell but that the Emperor and other Bishops did acknowledg a soveraigne power above all other particular Bishops See Leo epistle 61. et in epist ad Martianum Imperatorem 59. where he sayes Constitutionibus synodalibus c. Unto the constitution of the Councell which hath pleased me both for the confirmation of the catholick faith and for the condemnation of the hereticks I have added my verdiet And this verdict or sentence was not a bare consent but a judiciall confirmation and ratification of the Councel appeareth out of his letters sent the self same time unto the Empress Pulcheria saying Wheras the most godly Emperor hath willed me to direct my letters to the Bishops present at the Councell of Chalcedon quibus quae illic de fidei sunt regula definita firmarem by which I should confirm such things as have bene there defined touching the rule of faith I have gladly fulfilled his request 70. And he addeth this reason immediately Ne fallax cujusdam simulatio sententiam meaÌ„ vellet habere incertam To the intent that no man by any deceiptfull dissembling may take my verdict or sentence herein uncertaine To the intent that no man by any deceiptful dissimbling may take my sentence or verdict herein uncertaine 71. So also the Affricane Bishops having discussed the heresie of Pelaâ—ius and 〈…〉 sent their definition therein to the See Apostolicke to be confirmed by Silvester and the Councell of Constantinople by Damasus the Councel of Ephesus by â—aelestinus Doth not all this Mr. H. A. prove to you that the prerogatives of the Pope in defining and ratefying any thing is above al other Bishops which privileges al ages would not have given but that they did see as s. Peter had primacie over the other Apostles so his successor must have over other Bishops 72. And to showe this I will folow the thread of your matter â— not the manner of your discourse that in the interim is farced up with fowle mouthed slaunders as I shall touch anone The next page you begin to examine that of the 15. of the Acts of the Apostles alleged by me as a congruencie to argue S. Peters primarie v. 7. Peter rose up showing therby that he was head of the Church Wher first you show your wilful fraude in that you would have me gather his superioritie by his bare rising up Where I gathered rather by the due circumstances that passed there in that place For the text sayes when there was made a great disputation Peter rising up sayd to them you
Gods commandment Exod. 34. 27. so sufficiently written as Paâ—…th it is able to make us wise vnto salvation even perfect and perfectly furnished vnto every good work 2. Tim. 3. 15. 17. away therfore with your partiall rule oâ— vnwritten traditions they may not be neyther are they any rule for our faith for noâ—e must prefume above that which is written 1 Cor. 4. 6. But you ad a clawse to your proposition thâ—s where the written word dooth not sufficiently erpress divers mysteries of vs to be beleeved And where is that trow we I your assumption this clawse dares not shew his face for there it would conâ—â—nce you of falseshood If you affirme it not how frivolous deceytfull is your argumet If you intend to assume it though you express it not for so elsewhere you blame me for not vnderstanding your reasoning then say â— by your assumption you intend a lye against the truth and a stander against me It is a ly against the truth to say that the holy bible which we have written dooth not sufficiently express diverse mysteries of â—s to be beleeveâ— If have before disproved this by evident testimonies from heaven which you cannot withstand Ioh. 20. 31 2 Tim. 3. 1â— 17. Rom. 1â— 25. 26. 1 Cor. 15 3. 4. Aâ—â— 26. 22 Ioh. 5. 39. It is aslander against me when you say I grant your Minor for if this clause be there intended I did and doo disâ—â—aym it Your conclusion can be no better then your premisses even false and fraudulent Which that you or others at least may the better espye I wil shew how you wrap vp things in confusion and darknes First Tradition which title you claym for your vnwritten mysteries is as well the word of God written as vnwritten 2. Thes. 2. 15. but you doo oppose it to the written word Secondly holy Tradition or Doctrine by word of mouth was delivered alwayes by holy persons even as holy Tradition or doctrine by writing was delivered alwayes by holy scriptures The holy persons that spake were eyther God himselfe as to Moses in the Mount to Iob in the whirlwind or some Angel as to Abraham Iaakob c. or some holy man of God as Peter sayth spake being moved by the holy Ghost So Abraham is called a Prophet and so vvas Iaakob and all the holy patriarches from Adam to Moses The manner of speaking the vvord vvas also diverse as by visions or by dreames or by playn speech mouth to mouth or by secret motion of the holy Ghost Novv you shevv not vvhich of these vvayes your traditions come onely you give vs a generall paralogisme vvhich vvill serve as vvel to maynteyn H. N. or Mahomet vvith their nevv Gospel and Alkoran as the Pope vvith his nevv Canon lavv For thus may Mahomet or the Familist reason that vvhich vvas a rule heretofore may be a rule stil but the vvord of God given by visions revelations and instinct of the spirit vvas a rule heretofore therefore it is so still at least in part Here is as good and true an argument as yours that your Logik vvill persvvade as soone to Mahometisme or Familisine as vnto Popery Novv as for the persons there vvil be no disparagement For Mahomet himselfe or H. N. vvill as easily be proved to be holy men of God as Pope Iohn the 23. vvho vvas judged by the Council of Constance to be a divil incarnate and as other your reprobate Popes that vvere monsters among men for their beastly life til their dying day as your ovvn vvriters doo record and your selfe in this your vvriting deny it not nor defend them herein And novv I pray you tel me vvhy men may not be induced by your manner of reasoning as vvel to receive the Turks Alkoran and H. N. his Evangelium regni as your Popish decretals I find no more mention in Gods book that the Pope of Rome in the vvest churches should be a divine person to give heavenly traditions then that Mahomet in the East should be the man of God You find not so much as the Popes name much less his provvd office spoken of for good in the Bible You tel us of the promise to Peter Mat. 16. and Mahomet telleth us of the promise of the comforter Ioh. 16 7. That the Pope is head of the church is as vnpossible for you to prove by Gods lavv as it is for the Turks to prove that Mahomet is that Comforter You vvould have vs take the Popes ovvn vvord for a vvarrant the Turks vvould have us take Mahomets vvord for a vvarrant The truth is these both vvith their new doctrines and traditions are the curse and scourge of God vpon the world because they received not the love of the truth therefore God hath sent them strong delusion to beleeve lyes as th' Apostle prophesied 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. You proceed for vnwritten tradition cite some scriptures Deu. 32 â— Ps. 43. 1. Ps. 77. Pro. 1. 8. Esa. 38. 19. Ier. 6. 16. Ecclus. 8. 11. 4. Esd. 14. â— 2. Thes. 2. 15. 1. Tim. 6. 20 2. Tim. 2. 1 from all which you inferr that Israelites and Christians were to be directed by the help of traditios I answer your reasons from most of these and the like places I have taken away in my former writings Here you repete the same scriptures againe but ansvver not vvhat I sayd you may thus doo a 100. times and vveary men vvith your tautologies Vnto the things vvhich heretofore I vvrote and vvhereto I referr you I novv add All parents vvere bound to teach Gods lavv to their children and children to heare obey their parents in the Lord. Deut. 6. 7. Eph. 6. 1. 4. If this serves for traditions then vnvvritten verities from all parents mouths vvere to be received as oracles of God If you hold thus I pray you tel it plainly If not then shevv vvhich parents had the facultie to teach traditions and vvhich had not 2. The traditions vvhich those scriptures speak of being novv vvritten are a part of the canonicall bible to be read and expounded in the church as being inspired of God profitable to teach c. if such be the traditions of your fathers Councils Popes which the vvorld seeth now vvritten then are they to be acknowledged also scripture inspired of God as Paul speaketh and so to be read and expounded in churches as other books of the Prophets and Apostles For all Gods divine oracles and traditions are of equall authority If you esteem your decretals of this vvorth I pray you tel me in your next If not then the scriptures by you cited vvill justify your Popes traditions no more then the Pharisees Mar. 7 3 6. 7. 8 9. 13. That the Doctrines taught by the fathers in Psal. 44. and 78. vvere vvritteÌ„ traditions the particulars in the Psalms doo evince against your too bold asseveratioÌ„s For the casting out
Peter the office of an vniversall Pastor saying pasce ovâ—s meas feed my flock which sounds as much as have care of my sold. But in S. John the 10. it is sayd that there is but one flock and one shepheard and therefore since he bids him thrise feed his flock he honors him thrise with the stile of an universall pastor And therefore all the fathers joyntly interpret this place of an especiall charge and dominion assigned unto S. Peter investing him thereby in the supreame seat and government of his church and by him he is installed that had all power given him in heaven above and in earth beneath Now lastly and breifly to showe that our Romane Church is the true and onely Catholike Church of God that it is that holy citie Apocal 21. v. 20. that fruitful vine Psa. 79. v. 9. that high mountayne that direct path Isâ— 35. vers 8. that onely Dove Cant 6. v. 8. that kingdome of heaven Mat. 13. v. 24. that onely spouse Cant. 4. v. 8. that mysticall body of Christ Jesu Ephes. 5. v. 23. 1 Cor. 12 v 12. that foundation and rock of the truth 1 Tim. 3. v. 15 that holy multitude to whom such speciall directions of the Holy Ghost is promised Ioh. 14. 26. that Church against which hell gates shall not prevayle Mat 16. v. 18. the which Church was prefigured by the Arlie of Noe out of which none were saved from the all drowning deluge that is that tabernacle posuit tabernaculum suum in sole a tabernacle placed in the sunne conspicuous of all to be seene It is that citie that cannot be hidd S. Math. 8. All which properties belong onely unto our Romaine Catholike Church First our church is Catholik For in my memorie first we onely are catholiks in so much that the name Catholick was hatefull to a Puritaine or a Protestant And therefore Beza in his preface novi testamenti 1565. calls the name Catholicke a vaine word D. Humfrey in vita Iuelli pag. 113. calls it a vain term Sutliff in his challenge a fruitlesse name not unlike GaudeÌ„tius the hereticke who termed the word catholick a humane fiction Vt D. Aug contra Gaudentium lib 2 c. 25 though it be against the article of our beleefe whereas S. Hier Apol. 1. adversus Ruff sayth if we agree with the Bishop of Rome go Catholici sumus â— where S. Hier makes an vnfallible note of a catholicke man to agree with the sea of Rome 2. Our Church is an auncient church and God is more auncient then the Divill truth then falshood the good seed theÌ„ the bad cockle Christs seamless coate then his rent peeces that is Christs Church concording then the division into schismes And if you graunt that once our Church was the true Church but since it hath swarved from her auncient purity and incorruption shewe I praye you which Pope first gave place to the defects by what doctrine first in what age of our Lord on what motive and occasion who openly repugned it how that defect increased But all these points we can prove on your religions and sects Wee can shewe that there was neyther Wicliff Nuss Zuther Calvin of your religion Zuther and Calvin seeme first to have broached it though with in this hundred yeares we can trace theÌ„ forth the yeares motives places increase of their religion as you may read in hystories Wee are not ignorant of the motives that made King Henry the 8. first oppose himself to the Romane church though notwithstanding in his â—ir articles he held and ratified seven sacraments of the Church and conformed himself to al points of the Romane Catholick church onely excepting the point of supremacie Wee can show so that lawful in his dayes and sworne to which of some was held blasyliemy in the latter end of King Edward the 6 dayes That also which was allowed of in his dayes in his coÌ„munion book was defâ—ed in Queen Elizabeths dayes And that in her daies that is rejected in K. James And that in his Majesties dayes now whose Highness offers his religion to be tried by the united consent of the Fathers and the 4. or 5. generall Councells whose triall both his Bishops and you we are assured dare not stand to That which the Protestants now held to be a true lanterne and touchstone of the truth you repute oâ—â—iy as a stumblinâ— block and a stincking snuffâ— We can show that interrupted duration of the Romane catholick church according to that in Daniel the 9. Regnum quod in aeternum non dissipabitur and 5. of the Arts si ex hominibus consilium hoc aut opus dissolvetur si vero ex Dâ—o non potest dissolvi Wee can show the propheâ—y of the psalmist fulfilled Dabo tibi gentes hereditatem tuam et possessionâ—m tuam tâ—minos terrae Psal 2. Et dominabitur a mariusque ad mare Wee can show multitudes of people converted to our religion in the East and west Indies in Iaponia and China by men of our religion and sent by an Apostolicall mission Wee can show how that S. Peter about the 63 year of Christ came hither into EnglaÌ„d Camden in sua descriptione Brâ—tanniae pag. 52. et Nicephorus ut pse refert We read how Pope Eleutherius sent hither anno 156. S Fugatium et Damianum who baptized King Lucius and lastly S. Augustin and his companions Moncks were sent into England and wrought the conversion thereof and that S. Gregorie whom D. HuÌ„frey so farre extolleth p. 2. â—eâ—uitis rat 5. pag. 624. Gregorius nomine quidem magnus revera magnus vir magnus et multis divinae gratiae dotibus exornatus was with his followers of our religion shall moninifestly be proved by D. Humfreys owne assertion p. 2. ratione 5. p. 626. In ecclesiam vero quid induxerunt Gregorius et Augustinus nisi onus caeremoniarum Missarum solennia et Purgatorium so that we see they held those opinions of Masse and Purgatory that of ProtestaÌ„ts is so extreamly condemned Now if we should urge you to showe the succession of your interpreters and teachers from S. Peter you will be mute but we can shewe who succeeded each Pope how long he lived what doctrines he established Lastly we can â—now all sanctity vnitie and conformity of doctrine Out of all which notes we caÌ„ gather our church to be Vnam Sanctam et Apostolicam But you can prove no one of these notes in your church And when you shal be demanded at the tribunall of Almighty God why you hold this faith you now profess you can onely answer the holy and your privat spirit told you it was so though against all antiguitie of â—yme just interpretation of scripture consent of Fathers Greek and Latin But when we shal be demanded why we beleeve in the Romane catholick church we shall answer by reason Christ himselfe teacheth vs so He that heareth you heareth me and he that contemneth you contâ—netâ— me the
the Israelites discerned canonical scriptures from others so doo we for we Gentiles are coheyrs with them and of the same body for there is one body and one spirit as there is one Lord and one faith But they relyed not on the Church or on the Highpreist his council for had they so doon their church must haue had privilege not to err as you think of yours which if you grant a Iew he wil overthrow your beleef in Christ seing their Preists Elders people condemned Christ his Apostles and their writings As you would answer a Pharisee for this point so mind the like answer to your self Finally your plea is overthrown confounded by your own practise for you will have us receive the scriptures for canonical because your Church of Rome sayth so they are we must beleeve upon her word Tobie and Iudith to be canonical but the third and fourth of Esdras not the first and second of the Machabees to be canonical but not the third or fourth If any make question of this for conscience sake you seek to resolve him by the definitive sentence of the Pope who cannot err But if he ask why the Pope of Rome may not err aswel as the Patriarch of Constantinople you then allege as after to me in this your letter Christs promise to Peter Mat. 16 and there you scan every word and presse every circumstance of the text to make him beleeve that Peter was the Rock and head of the Church and consequently the Popes his successors Ask he you againe how he shall know that Matthewes gospel wherin this promise is written is canonical rather then Nicodemus gospel you will answer because the Pope hath so determined Thus the very entrance and ground of your religion bringeth men into a maze and Labyrinth for we must beleeve the Pope cannot err because Christ sayth such words to Peter which the Pope expoundeth and applyeth to himself we must beleeve that Christ sayd them words because the Pope hath determined that he sayd them Thus the foundation of our faith must rely wholly upon man a clod of clay whatsoever he telleth us is scripture that must we so esteme how ever he expound scripture so must we take it what he sayth is tradition or Gods unwritten word we must so regard and keep it be it never so absurd against the light of nature against reason against the grounds of faith against the evident testimonies of the prophets and Apostles we must captivate all our understanding faith and conscience under the Popes wisdome and all because he telleth us we must so doo Otherweise if we may trie this principle of yours by the scripture through the light of Gods spirit in us then may we doe the like of other which be of lesser moment Consider I pray you this first point seriously and the Lord give you understanding in all things And let me here put you in mind though I be not yet come to the end of the last motive in your letter where you tell me how wheÌ„ you shal be demanded at the tribunal of almighty God why you beleeve in the Roman catholik church you can answer by reason Christ himself teacheth you so saying He that heareth you heareth me c. But deceive not your own soul for when Christ shall ask you at that day why you have worshiped images sung masse and Dirige prayed to Saints and soules departed and transgressed many other of his fathers coÌ„mandements by your traditions you will answer because the head of your church the Pope did teach you so when he shall ask you how you knew the Pope to be head of the church and to haue such authoritie over your conscience you will answer because Christ himself spake such words to Peter as are written Mat. 16. When he ask you agayn how you knew that he spake those words or that they extended to the Pope of Rome above all other your answer vvil be according to the grounds of your religion because the Pope himself vvith his senate of Cardinals did tel you so Then vvil your hope be the vveb of a spider and your house novv seeming upon the Rock vvil be found upon the sand you shall hear the Curse pronounced upon the man that trusted in man and made flesh his arm and vvithdreâ—v his hart from the Lord and that all such vvorshiped him in vain as had their fear tovvard him taught by the precept of men The Rock of my hart vvho is my portion for ever preserve me and deliver you from those syrtes and quicksands vvhere men make ship-vvrack of faith Your second argument to prove that the bare naked vvord of God cannot be an infallible rule or square of truth is this That which is difficult and includeth many fenses at least to the ignorant cannot be a certaine rule of faith But the scriptures are thus Your antecedent you seek to confirm by Luther Teâ—tullian and S. Peter also vvho as you vvrite sayth that in S. Pauls epistles ther be many things hard to be understood which the vnlearned and unstable deprave as all the rest of the scriptures to their own perdition To this of the Apostle I answer first you set the holy text on the centers to stretch it out for your usâ— The Apostle sayth some things are hard to be understood you vvould haue him say many things he sayth they deprave these as the rest of the scriptures you say as all the rest Secondly this testimonie though it vvere as large as you extend it proves not your antecedent but onely the first part of it and scarce that too For to gather because part is difficult therfore the vvhole is is more then eyther his vvords or good reason vvil bear The later part that the scripture caÌ„not be a certayn rule of faith follovveth not upon the former it may be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though some part of it be difficult though many men doo deprave it Our ignorance or perversnes cannot make crooked that vvhich is most streight no more then our unfaithfulnes can make the faith of God of none effect The artizen that vvorketh by rule and squire maâ— through vvant of skil or heed vvork amysse but himself is to blame and not his rule Againe though some scriptures be difficult yet many be plaine and easy and God hath so tempered them togither that the vvisest should haue vvherin to exercise their vvit and admire Gods mysterios and the simplest should haue playne documents vvherby to grouÌ„d their faith It is our fathers vvil also that to some his vvord should be in parables that hearing men may hear and not understand vvhen to others it is given to knovv the secrets of the kingdom of God vvho hath vvritten his vvord to give unto the simple sharpnes of vvitt to the child knovvledge and discretion Again you allege the Eunuch Act. 8. vvho confesseth that he could
you to keep the foundation of the Apostles Prophets on which Christs church is builded then to build upon the boâ—â—s of after writers To conclude thâ—â—fore this point Christ sendeth us to serch the scriptures his Apostles doo the like the Prophets before spake also to like effect this counsel by Gods grace I shall folow 〈◊〉 these I wil exercise my self not doubting but I have chosen the better part which shall not be taken from me And unto you that â—…zelous for the traditions of your fathers I shew the counsel of the holâ— Châ—st walk not in the ordinances of your fathers transgresâ—e not the coÌ„maÌ„dements of God by your traditions and presume not above that which is written The second thing you take upon you to prove is That the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the Church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith This position if you well understood it I would not strive against for the definitive sentence of that Papa or Father that is head of the church is I confesse such an indeficient rule But the Vicar of Rome is not this Pope it is Christ himself that is Father of eternitie and he is the head of his body the church and he hath forbidden us to call any man our Pope or Father upon the earth for thâ—r is but one our Father which is in heaven Mat. 23 9. But you understand it of an earthly Pope and head and would confirm it by this scripture Luk. 22 31. Simon Simon loe Satan hath desired you to winnow you as wheat c. but I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not Here first I observe how you labour to confirm the Popes definitive power by the scriptures so that which before you pleaded against as an insufficient grouÌ„d now here you make a ground of grounds and so you are contrary to your self For before you taught me to beleeve this is Gods word because the Pope saith so here you will have me beleeve your Popes sentence to be a rule of faith because the scripture sayth something which you imagine makes for him Thus you would lead me as in a round and I cannot tel what you make the rock of your faith But I wil folow your argument Christ prayed for Simon that his faith upon Satans sifting mought not fayl I grant it neyther did it fayl though he fel greevously Yet this grace made not Simon Pope or Head of the church for it is a grace coÌ„mon to all the elect members of the bodie whom though Satan sifteth and they be often foyled yet rise they again by beleef in God and though their faith often fainteth yet it never faileth or is consumed And this by vertue of Christs prayer or mediation 1. Ioh. â— 1. 2. for Gods gracious gifts are without repentance and Christ giveth all his sheep eternall life and they shall never perish neyther shall any pluck them out of his hand You procede and say that this prayer was consequently for his successors If you mean successors in his office I know not who they be neyther shew you the Popes to be the men If you mean successors in his faith I grant it as before For Peter had the faith of Gods elect as true justifying faith is caled in which faith whosoever succeed or come after him as also they that then lived in like faith with him they were are and shal be by Christs mediation confirmed that their faith which is their life fayl not For example Christ chose 12. Apostles and one of them was a Divil Iscariot who was the Divil fell into syn and Christ prayed not for him so his faith fayled though he coÌ„fessed his syn and he dyed in dispeir hanging himself for he was the Son of losse or perdition and therfore was to be lost that the scripture mought be fulfilled Iohn 17. 12. Simon Cephas fell also into syn above the other ten but he was one of Christs sheep no child of perdition therfore he kept him from being lost praying that his faith mought not fayl And as for him for the rest at an other time he prayed to his father to keep them in his name and not for them alone but for those also which shall beleev in him through their word Wherfore Christ prayed not onely for SimoÌ„ but for all the Saincts though speciall need and use was for him at that time yet as Paul sayth of Abrahams justification it is not written for him onely but also for us so say I of Simons confirmation by the prayer of Christ for whatsoever is written is written for our learning RoÌ„ 15. 4. But you prosequute your argument thus that S. Peter was bidden coÌ„firm his brethren but onely S. Peter and not the church in generall hath brethren Wherupon you would have me gather that this was his special privilege and no mans ells save his successors in the headship Your assumption I withstand as a fallacie proving Peters popedome for confirming his brethren no better then as if you should reason thus Paul sayd to Barnabas let us return and visit our brethren in every citie c. but onely Paul and Barnabas not the church in general have brethreÌ„ therfore onely Paul and Barnabas are Popes of the catholik church and visiters of the same they and their successors If this be not a good reason to prove a supremacie of visitation the other is no better to prove a supremacie of Confirmation For the church in generall is a brotherhood as the Apostle Peter himself calleth it and of this brotherhood Peter was one Paul an other Iohn an other and so the rest not onely the Apostles but all beleevers Wherfore as Simon had brethren so hath every Christian and all are brethren ech to other and all brethren unto Christ. And Peter as he was a joynt elder with the other elders so was he also a joynt brother with the other brethreÌ„ or els he was none of Christs And as for confirming his brethren it is farr from proving a popedome for Paul an other Apostle confirmed his brethren and Timothee an Evangelist did the like and Iudas and Silas being Prophets did the same and all the Angels or ministers of churches are taught of Christ to doo likeweise Wherfore Simons coÌ„mission to confirm his brethren made him not Pope and consequently neyther his supposed successors But you presse the circumstances that our Saviour points out one particular man saying Simon Simon and after having spoken of al particularizeth the speech agayn saying for thee thy faith thy brethren c. I answer there was cause why our Saviour should speak to him thus because in his sifting he should shew more weaknes then the rest and a speciall fore needeth a special medicine But the fore being healed the recured person is as an other man of his
therfore unlesse you vvil renounce Christ and make Peter your Rock your God your Saviour that layd down his life for you to give you eternal life you cannot make him that one Pastor over the one fold of Iewes and Gentiles Wherfore neyther thrise nor yet once is Peter honoured with the stile of universal Pastor but onely is charged to feed Christs sheep as other Pastors also are required our Lord Iesus the great Pastor of the sheep hath given not one but many Pastors for this work Ephe. 4. 11. Having heard your reasons for Peters headship I exspected somewhat for your Popes pretended primacie but for this you shew no evidence froÌ„ Gods book you have none I trow so ancient Wherfore your position That the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith is farr as yet froÌ„ being proved And though this preeminence were yeilded for Cephas yet would I not grant the like for Caiaphas though Peter vvere the Rock on which Christs Church is builded yet your house may be situate on the sands for ought you have sayd to perswade the contrarie But let us see what the 3. point in your letter wil afford which now next foloweth Lastly and breifly you take upon you to shew that your Romane church is the true and onely catholik church of God that holy citie Apoc. 21. c. And first your church you say is catholik for in your memory you onely are catholiks in so much that the name catholik was hateful to a puritan or a protestant citing Beza D. Humfrie Sutcliff c. Your reason hath no weight What if others should say your church is the whore of Babylon Apoc. 17. because in their memory you only are lovers of that whore in so much that the name whore is hateful to a puritan or protestant Would you approve of this argumeÌ„t Yea but it is you say against the article of our beleef to deney the catholik church I answer we beleeve ther is a catholik that is an universal church no puritan or protestant I think denyes it But that your church of Rome or any other particular church in the world should be the universal or catholik church neyther faith nor reason dooth perswade Wherfore the auctors whom you cite mought vvel blame you for taking to your selves that ambitious title which never was given you of God If therfore you speak let it be as the words of God and if by his word you can say any thing to help you shâ—w it and by his grace I will hear Otherwise your assumed name Catholik moves me no more then the name Apostolik Prâ—â—tegiani corruptly called Prester John among the Ethâ—â—pians I know the Apostle Paul gave the church in Rome no such swelling title when he wrote therunto and if you would have your church called by a new name you should let the mouth of the Lord name it as sayth the Prophet Isa 62 2. except you would have it noted to be none of his Secondly you say your church is an ancient church and God is more ancient then the Divil truth then falshood c I grant your church is ancient but I deney it to be the most ancient Seing then the most ancient by your own grant is the most true bring â—orth the testimonies of your antiquitie and if in the particulars I shew more ancient testimonie then yow I will yeild But you procedâ— say If yow grant that once our church was the true church but stâ—ce it hath swarved from her ancient purity shew which Pope first gave place to the dâ—fects c. I grant there was a true church in Rome in tâ— Apostles dayes so was there in Ierusalem in Ephesus Corinth Colosse other cities many What their faith estate vvas I see in the most ancient records the Apostles aâ—s letters unto them What yowr faith estate is I see also by your late council of Trident other bâ—oks of yours maynteyning a religion unheard of in â—h Apostles dayes as in the particulars vvhen they come to be scanned after vve have ended these general grounds in hand I doubt not but to manifest Hovv Rome is come to be Lady mistresse of al churches I knovv not by any ancient record of the Apostles save by that mysterie opened unto Iohn in the vvildernes Apoc. 17. And if your Popes lives vvere in Gods record as were the Kings of Israel I could easily thevv which Pope first gave place to the defects c. but seing they are not recorded by him I vvil not preâ—ume above that vvhich is vvritten If upon mens report I should centure them I mought doo many good men vvrong They that are dead are gone to thâ—ir judgmeÌ„t have stood or fallen unto the Lord you that are livâ—ng must ansvvâ—r for your selves and your present state vvhich if you can not vvarrant by the vvord of God vvho liveth indu â—eth for ever your dead mens bones vvil be but slender pillars co underprop your church This I am sure of and testify unto you Our Saviour and his Apostles forecold of false prophets and of greivous vvolves that should come soon after and not spare the flock Who vvas the first vvolf in Ephesus vvho the first in Rome c I can not tel out if our Lord have given vs a true rule ye shall knovv them by their fruits vve may knovv your Pope not to be head of the Church unlesse of Antichrists your church it self to be Cos bi-bath tsur Falsitie daughter of a rock but not of Christ. Be not offended at my plain dealing vvith you it is a case of conscience and concerneth your salvation and my ovvn and I vvish your vvelfare as my ovvn Your conclusion neaping many praises upon your church many dispraises upon oâ—ns others that have forsaken her remayns hereafter unto due trial vvhen having finished these first questions begun you shall set dovvn arguments from Gods vvord eyther for your selves or against us In the mean time I obsâ—rve your dispute against us to have no more vveight or colour then as if the AEdomites or Ismaelites elder brethren to tâ—â— Israelites should have alleged their outvvard carnal privileges possessions against their poor brother Iaakob in AEgyptian bondage and after a pilgrim in the vvildernes or as if the Scribes and Pharisees should have pleaded for Annas and Caiaphas and their proceedings from Deut. 33 8 11. and other scriptures many against Iesus of Nazareth and his disciples I knovv he magnificence and pomp of the false church dazeleth the eyes of many her sorceries bevvitch many her fornications destroy many but her cup is ful of the vvine of vvrath and her lovers shal be cormented vvith her but those vvhom God loveth shal be delivered from her Wherefore serch in the book of God and read let his law be your light and make
It is sayd to be full of baâ—iy And the 1. â—â—eg 7. 15. It is sayd that the braâ—en pillars were thirty eight cubiâ—â—â— in length and yer 2. Parall 3. 19. but thirty five Math. 1. 8. It is sayd that Joram begaâ— Qziaâ— but in the 4. book of the Kings which the Protestants call the second it is written that Joram was father to Ochozias Ochoizas to Joas Joas to Amaâ—â—â—s not Joram to Ozias otherwise called Azarias Mat. 1. 3 16. Joseph is called Jacob wheras S. Luk. 3. 23 nameth him 〈◊〉 Mat 10 10. the Apostles sent to prâ—ach are forbidden to have a â—reffe in their â—aâ—ds and yet S. Mark 6 8 baâ— them take onely a staffe or rod in their hand Mat. 26 34 and Luk. 22 34. sayth that before the cock did crow Peter should deny him thrice but S. Marke the 14. 30. sayth Christs words were Before the cock shall crowe twise thou shalt thrisâ— deny me Mar 15 25. â—ayth our Saviour was crucified at the third howre but S. John 19 14 saith it was about the sixt houre before he was condenmed by Pâ—â—ate So that you see the comparing of place onely with place often times may bring a poore man into a maze or circle except he adde to this the authoritie of the Church and the holy Fathers and the learned Doctors exposition by whose helpe all these seeming contradâ—â—tions will easily be salved Now wheras you may answer that these difficults are in matters of fact and not of doctrine so it much imports not whither a man reconcilâ—s these places or no I graunt the first but I deny the sequâ—â—â— For since you teach that al difficults of scripture may be helped by comparing of one place with another now when as ignorant men shall folow this your rule as an unfallible guide when they see themselves ledd by it vnto a contradiction they doe not onely begin to cal into question this but al other things conteyned in the scriptures seing the self same truth affirming the little as well as the great and as much abhorring from coÌ„tradiction of a litle matter as of a great The second braunch of my antecedent which I bring is that holy scriptures hath many senses litterall and spirituall yea and often many senses literrall and many senses spirituall All this you deny wonder that I doe not prove it I answer that no disputant useth to prove comoâ—mâ—â—â—mes and principles and we use not to prove coÌ„mon 〈◊〉 at most Protestants allow of viz. of a litterall and a spirituall sense the lâ—sâ— wherof they divide into three members into an all gâ—ricell tropological anagogicall sense yea and not without great cause they allow of this since D. August lib. 11. confess cap. 26 et lib. 11. De â—â—â—â—tate Dei c. 19. sayth also that the scripture often haâ— many litterall senses But you against the holy fathers held that it hath onely one sense but as you answer appliable to diverse places times and persons Here I wonder that you should be so consideÌ„tly hoveld with your own concâ—â—t and so caried away with your privat spirit that you see not that which to most manifest But even as a pigeon that is seeled in your soaring spirit you see onely the way at length to your own downfall though in your conceit you ascend bolt upright for a season But that the scripture hath many senses we leave as proved and if to prove fitter for another place Now it sufficeth for this place to show that which you graunt to sufficient to prove the second part of my antecedent For if that one sense hath reference to diverse tymes places and persons it must needes be very difficult require some common help besides themselves to obtaine their severall true expositions nay here me thinks you graunt that the scriptures hath diverse senses since you graunt diverse as it were formalities of senses respecting divers places tymes and persons Here also in prosecuting of this point you seem to mistake our doctrine For we hold that neyther Apostle or the Pope have domintoÌ„ over our faith or authoritie to institut Sacraments of themselves neyther can they make what they will as a matter of faith or tradition But it must be received tyme out of mynde by the vniform coÌ„sent of that Church which hath kept her peâ—petuall succession of Bishops from S. Peter and then S Aug. in epist. 118. will teach you that insolentissimae infaniae est existimare non certe fieri quod ab vniversa ecclesia fit that it is a most insolent madness to think that it should not be right that the whole church doth teach Besides the Pope doth not make a matter of faith but declareth onely that such and such a thing is to be beleeved and that by the inspiration of Almighty God guiding him as he is the head of the church Neyther dooth he for all this omitt to use all humane helpes of counsell and consultatioÌ„ with the learned that though as he is head of the church he hath a promise froÌ„ Almighty stil to assist him yet in that he might not seeme to presume in omitting the vse of naturall and prudentiall helpes and meanes he vseth all diligent serâ—tinp therein The place of 15. of the Acts which you examine of mine where I lay that in the counsel held at Hierusalem all was concluded with this of S. Peter the head It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us This I sayd and still averr makes much against you For here the Apostles to end the controversy in hand trusted not their own several spirits but to a mature deliberation and counsell where S. Peter was hâ—ad and vinâ—eere though he vsed an Apostolicall inguisition and therfore it is noted in the 7. verse that Peter role up showing thereby that he was head and had the preemineâ—ce of place first to speak noting also his priviledge that the first Gentills were chosen by his mouâ—h though S. Paul was designâ—d to convert them Now unto that which you 〈◊〉 that verse 13. and 14. S. James 〈◊〉 stanâ—â— all and that hence we might rather hold him head of the Church I answer that doth not hence folow in that S. James in that he was an Apostle and Bishop of HierusaleÌ„ gave his sentence nert For surely S. Paul and S. Barnabas also spake though their speach is interposed for the better declaration of the question to be decided and for the greater confirmation of S. Peters sentence And though S. James sayd in his speach I judge he doth not meane thereby that he gave the principal definitive sentence since he and all the rest followed and seconded by their suffâ—ages the decision of S. Peter as it is plaine in the text The whole assembly for reverence of his person and approbation of his sentence holding their peace The which S. Hierâ—m affirmeth saying all the multitude held their peace and into his sentence James the Apostle
to man children when in danger of death before the eight day they necessarily were to receive remedie of their sinne How prove you that our blessed virgin Marie was a perpetuall virgin ante partum in partu et post partum how ar you able to prove this by the bare letter against Helvidius the heretick for he vrgeth you with the plaine text and with originall phrase viz. That he knew her not till the brought forth her first sonne and the word know you know what it imports in the Hebrew phrase As Abraham knew Sara So that you see we beleeve this perfection of the blessed and perpetuall Uirgin Mary by tradition though the bare text seems to make against it How doe you prove that our sunday should be celebrated on sunday and not on saterday by the bare letter without tradition How doe you prove the celebration of Easter as it is now without tradition How doe you prove the Creede of the Apostles out of the naked word How doe you prove without tradition that you should receive the blessed sacrament kneeling the receiving of it fasting the eating of blood and straÌ„gled meates prohibited in the Acts of the Apostles How are you able to prove all these or any one of these by convincing reasons out of the holy scriptures alone All these you say you can prove not alleaging one place of scripture for any of them though you have bene most copious to prove idem per idem in other pointes to little purpose Now you say onely it would goe hard with you if you could not prove these without tradition and me thinks it goes hard with you since you prove not one particular of them all Therfore I desire you that you would not confound your trace so like the Fore or hare in doubling and turning but that you would answer distinctly to each poinct as it lies if you answer Wherfore to shut up this point I will conclude with S. August Genes ad litt â— 10. â— 23. that as he sayes that the not rebaptising of infants were not to be beleeved if it were not taught by tradition So I say these forealleaged mysteries were not to be beleeved without the direction of tradition Now since we are come to the answering of your arguments which are nothing but allegations of scripture falsly applied me thinks I cannot better compare them then as to so many orient pearles and rich Jewels hung and placed out of order in an Judian or â—thiopians lippes nose armes and legges so these places of scripture in that they are racked and wrested from their right sence and meaning their lustre and beautie is rather a disgrace theÌ„ ornament to the wearer For when you bring the place of Deut. 5 32. to take heed that wee should doe as our Lord commaunded us not turning to the right hand nor the left and of that of Deut. 12. 32. not putting any thing therevnto or taking any thing therfrom I answer first granting that God commaundeth this but I deny that hence can be gathered that in that we should doe as our Lord commaundeth us and that we should not turne vnto the right hand or to the left that the holy scripture should be the onely rule and vâ—ptor of faith Fâ—r as it doth not follow nothing is to be added to the fourth coÌ„maundement and the fourth commandement is to be observed therfore there is onely the fourth commaundement and it is therfore the rule of all the rest 2. I answer that all additions whatsoever are not here prohibited but onely such as are contrary to the word of God For many other Prophets as the penn men of the holy Ghost did adde diverse yea most part of the holy scriptures But now it is plaine that the definitions and traditions of the Catholick church by whose mouth the holy Ghost doth dictat are most consonant to the text of scripture For the holy Ghost speaketh by them though not tanquam calamus velociter scribentis For Luke 10. it is sayd he that heareth you heareth me and he that contemneth you contemneth me Math. 18. If he doe not hear the church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke and a Publican and S. Ambrose expounding the last of S. John 18 v. where S. John saith If any man shall adde unto these things God shall adde vnto him the plagues written in this book S. Ambrose saith he makes not a protestation against the expositors of his prophesie but against heretichs For the expositor doth adde nor diminish nothing but onely openeth the obscuritie of the place and sheweth the moral and spirituall sense Now to answer your second argument I wonder how you being a man of vnderstanding should be so much deceived as to think that these places make for you against vs. For wee holding firm our assertion can cite all the self same places Rom. 3. 10. 11 19. that man naturally understands not the things of God that mans wisdome is foolishnes Coloss. 2. 22. For we affirm it the gift of the holy ghost by an infused habit of faith that we beleeve and that by the directioÌ„ of the holy Ghost promised that the Church cannot â—â—r neyther doe we when we allow of tradition make at our pleasure voluntary religion for we acknowledge tradition also to be the word of God the voice of his spouse that is taught in al truth guided up the holy ghost vnto the end of the world Wherfore your argument proves nothing since you presuppose that proved that rests yet to you to prove The like answer I give vnto your third argument viz. that men are dead in trespasses Ephe. 2. 5. Math 15 9. that faith to by hearing and hearing by the word Rom. 10 17. But I deny that the word is the totall or onely rule of faith since we finde many thinges to be beleeved that are not expresslie found in the written word nor thence deduced And to answer breifly vnto your 4 Argument I graunt that the Preists and Prophets were bound to heare the word and that of Ezek. 13. 2 3. that they should not prophesie according to their own heart or follow their own spirit but I deny that they should follow onely the written word or that folowing the voice of the Church the interpretaton of holy Fathers and Doctors they follow their own harts and their own inventions So that you see how weake your arguments be so that they might with more reason bee returned on your self The second thing which you say I take vpon me to prove but more rightly to say onely to propound till the decision of this mayne question be ended which was whether the definitive sentence of the Church and Pope be an infallible rule and guide of our faith Thus questioÌ„ I say I onely inteÌ„ded rather to propound theÌ„ prove that we have not at one tyme diverse proâ—s togither in the fyre But now to handle it by way of vellitation and not of purpose
yet doth he not manifestly contrary that he thinks the other opinion false or improbable For he ronfesseth that the whole Church in a hymne of S. Ambrose doth acknowledge that S. Peter was head and rocke of the Church Wherefore after he had proposed the coÌ„mon opinion of the Church and his private judgement In great humilitie he concludeth all Let the reader chuse whether of these two opinions is the probabler Hence we may note how ill a friend you are to S. August thus to put him on the racke and how you may inforce fathers to seeme to speake for your cause in great nuÌ„ber if you bring those that makes against you me thinks you that rely most in expositioÌ„s of scripture on still of laÌ„guages should not onely rely of S. August words here that in this for lack of skill of languages mistook a litle But this is certain that S. August in Psal. 63 et contra partes Donati calls S. Peter his successors the rock against which hell gates shall not prevaile So sapes Tertull. De praescript Orig. homil 5. in Exod. S. Cypr. De unitate Ecclesiae S. Hyllar cant 16. in Math. S. Ambr serm 47. 68. lib. 6. in c. 5 Lucae S. Chrysost. homil 55. in Math. S. Cyrill lib. 2. c. 1 2. coÌ„ment in Ioannem Lastly you produce that which I bring out of S. John 21. wher it is sayd Pasce oves meas seed my flock in which words I assumed S. Peters priviledge and power to be noted since here a Pastorall office is graunted unto S. Peter that is to feed with pasture to lead to defend to governe chasten and heale But you say that all the Apostles were alike charged here to feede But the contrary is manifest out since he sayd onely to him feed my flocke to whom he sayd before lovest thou me more then they In which words he excludeth all the others Besides Christ speakes to S. Peter that he should feed his generall flock though he may speak unto the other Apostles that they should feed their particular charges Wherefore S. Leo saith 3. anniversario assumptionis sayth Petro hoc singulariter creditur quia cunctis Ecclesiae rectoribus Petri forma praeponitur and so we may answer that in this generall charge given to Peter the particular charge implicitly was commended unto all the other Apostles And though the other Apostles were sayd to be joinet Preists with S. Peter 1. Pet. 5 1. It is spoken in regard that they were joinctly Preists in the exercise of their orders and not in regard of the preeminence of place in which respect S. Peter was head of all the rest of the Apostles though the others did joinctly labour with him in the conversion of nations Now after you have a litle smoothed up your self that you have done your part in this poinct then begin you to say that my affertioÌ„ is not sufficiently proved But as for that you might better leave it to the iudgment of the indifferent reader then to take upoÌ„ you to be pliant and juâ—â—e in the self same cause But whereas you say I lack anâ—iâ—uitie to prove the supremacie of the Pope I hope no since the Protest 〈◊〉 own Doctors teacheth that it began in the NiceaÌ„ councell and I think when we shall scan the matter how it come in then I know we shall prove it of equall age or the self same with that of S Peter But to say the truth I did not intend to prove this point of purpose but onely to give you a tast what doctrine in this we follow Therfore if in this you impugne Cardinall Bellar doctrine as it lieth you may at once impugne both that learned man and my selfe to whose learning I acknowledge my self a scholler The last thing which you examine of mine is about the name Catholicke which faine you would challenge vnto your selfe but after better consideration you seeme to refuse it because it is not warranted by the written word But why doe not you aswel reject the name Trinitie consubstantialitie three persons and one God Nay why doe you not reject as wel the Crede of the Apostles For if the church be a catholicke mother surely she hath Catholicke children of which you wil be none But you belike say with Gaudentius the hereticke that the name Catholike is a humane fiction D. August contra Gaudent lib. 2. c. 25. Or with Beza you helshe when you call it a swelling title you think it a vaine word or with Humfrey in vita Iuelli a vaine terme But you doe well since you have neyther vniversalitie of tyme place or person of the Catholicks Nor the vnitie of the Romans having such divisioÌ„s and sectaries amongst you to deny both But we can say with S. August writing upon the Psal. 65. Iubilate Deo omnis terra let the whol world not only one corner of AmsterdaÌ„ rejoyce we can show you the prophecie of Esay fulfilled in that the Gosuell is preached to all nations Gen. 2. 6. Psal. 2. Isa. 54. Mat. 28 Mat. 5 Luk. 8 Mal. 1. that the whole world is replinished with the fruit of our doctrine Neyther is this the voice of the Israelites or AEdomites against the Israelites in glorying of fleshly privileges For these are noted as principall signes of the Church of God and that if it were as invisible as your Church was it should be excelled farr by the synagogue of the Jewes that still for all their scattering have reteyned in sundry places visible meetings and congregations visible vse of their sacraments and ceremonies The which consideration made Castalio in the preface of the Bible of King Edward the â— after he had considered the promises made by our Saviour to his Church that it should be spread over all nations and that hell oates should not prevayl against it and how invisible their Church had been how unheard of the essentiall pointes of their doctrine inforced him to say that eyther these promises are to be fulfilled or that God els is a lyar This also made George David to deny the verity of the Bible in that the promised visibilitie of the Church was not performed Nay then a little to see whither wee or you make the best resolution of our faith Let vs consider that we Romane Catholicks use all meanes and apply all helpes and motives to the due eliciting of an act of faith For first we have all motives evidentiae credibilitatis required unto an act of faith Wee have all antiquitie vnitie vniversalitie visibilitie confirmed by the consent of Dortors by the institution of most holy religious orders we have the conversion of nations the power of miracles the infinite number almost of Martyrs that have sealed our doctrin through al ages with their bloods 2. wee have a certaine visible and infallible way to decide all controversies which is the Catholick Church that propoundeth what is to be beleeved and what is not 3. we have
bare witnes of him so the Father which hath sent uâ— the scriptures beareth witnes of them Ye have not heard his voice at any time sayth Christ neyther have ye seen his shape his word ye have not abiding in you for whom he hath sent him ye beleev not So say I to you if ye beleev not the scriptures it is because the word of God abides not in you if you hear not them neyther wil you be perswaded though one rise from the dead agayn Luk. 16 31. But loe how you require proof of a received principle for which by lawes of right reasoning you deserv not to be reasoned with as a Christian It is the speech of an atheist to cal for proof that ther is a God of a Turk oâ— pâ—ynim to cal for proof that our divine scriptures are of God Professed Christians grant this why should we then warr one with an other about our own received grounds The books that I hold to be inspired of God authentik canonical your selves grant â—o to be Cease therfore I pray you to â—ight against God least by your own mouthes you â—s condemned But as yet you cease not for demanding how I prove without tradition the scripture to be inspired of God and my interpretation to be onely true you say I have my answer ready coyned viz. the things of God no man knoweth but the spirit of God It is wel my answer hath been coyned in the Lords mint and it shal be wel with you if you receiv your money from no worse coyners But what fault find you with this coyn you ask how I do proov that I have the spirit of God For my self first I answer with th'Apostle what man knoweth the things of man but the spirit of man which is in him I cannot make proof of that to an other which can be known but to my self onely as the tree is known by the fruits so may my spirit by the fruits thereof be discerned whither it be of God or no. For my interpretatioÌ„ I answer it may be truth it may be error let it be tried by the scripture it self of them that have the spirit of God Further proof ther is none on earth till the great day come when all secrets shal be made manifest But for the scripture vvhich is the thing you should keep unto it needs not my proof that it is inspired of God it hath proof in it self of God then vvhich can be no greater It is as if you should ask me proof that there is light in the sun my ansvver vvould be all vvhose eyes have the spirit of life and sight in theÌ„ doo see it the blind and senselesse can never discern it So is it much more in the things of God Learn it I pray you of our Saviour vvho saith that the vvorld cannot receive the spirit of truth because it seeth him not neyther knovveth him but yee my disciples knovv him for he dvvelleth vvith you and shall be in you and he shall teach you all things and he shall testify of me he shall glorifie me for he shall receive of mine and shall shew it unto you Now this Anointing or holy spirit all that are Christs have none other in the world and it dvvelleth in them and they need not that any man teach them but as the same Anoynting teacheth them all things and it is true and is not lying If you say with Nicodemus how can these things be I answer with Christ Verily verily we speak that we know and testify that vve have seen but ye receive not our vvitnesse If ye cannot perceive the vvind that blovveth nor knovv hovv the bones doe grovv in the vvomb of a woman with child how should ye know the work of God that worketh all If you see not Gods spirit in the script â—res it is because the eyes of your hart are blinded yet the light shines in darknes though the darknes comprehends it not If you still call for testimonie and proof of the spirit you have been answered it is the spirit which testifieth that the spirit is truth and if you refuse to walk in this light you must grope in darknes till you lye down in sorow But you still object as having a mist before your eyes that the Manichie Montanist Arian and all other haeretiks will vâ—aâ—â— of this private spirit c. be â—t â—o and cannot you trie the spirits as the Apostle biddeth whither they â—e of God doubtlesse if you were of God you should not onely trie and find out but overcome them for greater is he that is in the Saincts then he that is in the world this promise have we received from the Father 1 Ioh. 4 4. Againe you consider not though you were put in mind that Ievves Turks and Ethniks vvill beat you with your ovvn vveapons For the Iâ—vv resteth upon the books of Moses and the Prophets vvhich are the ground of our Christian religion and from them he reasoneth against â—esus of Nazareth our hope To allege novv against Ievves the authoritie of your catholik church or Pope is no more then for them to allege against youth authoritie of Annas and Caiaphas and the church of Israel If you confound not the Ievv by scriptures as did the first Christians by demonstration of the spirit and of power your self vvil turn back and be ashamed for no other weapons vvill vvin the victorie in this feild And the same vvill foile all Antichristians and heretiks vvhosoever for though they take up the sword of the spirit which is the word of God yet the true spirituall man vvhose eyes are in his head vvill return that svvord into their ovvn harts and slay them thervvith For the vveapons of our vvarfare are mighty through God to cast dovvn holds and a vvise man goeth up into the citie of the mighty and casteth dovvn the strength of the confidence thereof Prov. 21. 22. I but the Romane catholik church you say can shew Turks their beginner beginning increase and declyning estate And vvil not the Ievv say as much against us Christians that they can shevv our beginner beginning increase c. If this be your best defense the Turk vvill laugh you to scorn And IVLIAN the Apostata vvould not have his mouth stopped by your slight answer because he himself went out of the catholik Ch which was more ancient then he for then if a Ievv should novv come to your catholik church his brethren Ievves might stop his mouth by your yeason because he goeth out of a church more ancient then himself Iulian pleaded not for his own person but for Paganisme as much more ancient and universal then Christianisme vvhich if they be unfallible demonstrations of the truth our faith vvill perish unlesse vve deduce our antiquitie from paradise vvhere in deed Christianitie did beginn And so
the truth vvill prevayl in antiquitie against all opposites but then Gods vvord and spirit in his scriptures and servants must be ouâ— bulwark as now they be mine If your Church Pope and traditions will not stand you in stead against Iewes Turks â— thinks but onely for to contend a while against your even Christen then doo you not build upon the Rock nor lay such a ground as all hâ—l gates can not prevail against for these miscâ—eants will prevail against it but wee that rely on Gods word and spirit shall by his grace stand for ever even as the Apostles did by these convert all nations under heaven Wheras I further thâ—wâ—d you â—h insufficiencie of your plea for church traditions by example or Israel whose church and preists â—ared and codemned Christ c. You answer mâ— that the high preisthood that was judge did not err nâ— not when ouâ— Saviour was co deÌ„â—â—d in that the high preisthood remayned in our saviour for he was thâ—… if judge c. But doubtlesse the Pharisees would have smiled aâ—â—his answer wherin you â—â—ke for graunted the main controversie Question was then in Israel whether Iesus of Nazareth were the true Mâ—sâ—â—â— the high preists scribes rulâ—r sayd no he is a deceiver and hath a Dâ—…l if any confesse him to be the Christ let him be excoÌ„municate Dooth any of the rulers or of the pharisees beleeve in him but this people which know not the lawer cursed If you â—ad then lived it seemes you vvould have confuted all the Rabbâ—nes with this that Iesus was the Messias because he was the cheif preist and judge But had you not câ—â—aved othervveise to the scriptures as did th' Apostles and sâ—novv doo they vvould soon have stopt your mouth vvith this that hard controversies were by the lavv to come unto the Preists of the Levites not a Preist of Iuda concerning vvhich tribe Moses spake nothing touching the preisthood and unto the Iudge that should been thâ—se dayes in the place vvhich the Lord did choose vvhich vva Ierusalem not Nazareth or Galilee vvhence Iesus came and hâ—y should shevv the sentence of judgment c and he that vvould not â—â—aâ—ken to the Prâ—â—â— or Iudge should die But vve are the Preists of the Levites vvould they say and by our oâ—ce must teach the people betvveeneth holy profâ—nâ— and in controversie must stand to judge according to â—hâ— lavv vvhich vve teach tel must mâ—n doo now we have a law and by our lavv he ought to dye because he made himself the son of God If now your religion had been known that the Church the preisthood can not err the simple people might have chosen Barâ—bbâ—s rather then Iesus as in deed they did and have had much more colour to plead for Annas and Caiaphas then you have for your Popâ— and succession the pillar of your catholik church would have born down all the disciples of our Lord. Beware therfore how you build upon these â—oggs least you betray the Gospell unto stubborn Iewes Besides all this if you knew the scriptures you might find long before that the church of Israel erred Did not the preists rulers and people condemn the Prophets of God sent in severall ages and was not Ierusalem the holy citie and seat of the preisthood gâ—… of their blood Was not vile and grosse idolatrie practised often in Iuda and Ierusalem by the Preists and Princes so that Ierusalem Aâ—OLâ—â—AH mâ—â—red her self with inordinate love and with her fornications more then her idolatrous sister AHOLAH or Samaria For Iudah forsook the Lord and turned their faces from his tabernacle shut the dores of his howse quenched his lamps and neyther burnt incense nor offred burnt offrings in the sanctuarie unto the God of Israel and will you say in all this the Church did not err Vriah the Preist made an altar idolatrous like that in Damascus and polluted Gods worship in the temple Paâ—h it the son of Immâ—r the Preist being governour in the house of the Lord persecuted Ieremiah for preaching the truth and himself prophesied lyes A general defection was in the church they their Kings their Princes their Preists and their Prophets the men of Iudah the inhabitants of Ierusalem they turned the back unto God and not the fâ—… and sâ—â— their abominations in the house wherupon his name vvas called to defile it and built the high places of Baal and offred their children into Molech The heads of Ierusalem judged for rewards the preists taught for hire and the prophets prophesied for money And wil you yet say the church did not err The Lord sayd by Malachi that his covenant had been with Levi even life and peace and he gave him fear that he feared him and was afrayd before his name the law of truth was in his mouth and no iniquitie found in his lips for the Preists lips should preserve knowledge they should seek the law at his mouth for he is the Angel of the Lord of hosts But of the Preists that theÌ„ lived he coÌ„plaineth that they wâ—r gone out of the way had caused many to fall by the law had brokeÌ„ the covenaÌ„t of Levi for which God made theÌ„ despised vile before al the people And where now is the privilege of the preistood not to err And if the church then erred as many moe proofs may yet be brought if you stil denev it how did the godly for a grouÌ„d of their faith Wil not the law of the Lord his good spirit which he gave to instruct them susteyn is now as it did them then against all errors heresies and idolatries Otherweise Christians now under the gospel should have lesse grace or benefit by the scriptures and spirit of God then thee had then which is contrary to all the promises Thâ—se things I dor the more insist upon to inforce you to a deâ—pâ—r consideratioÌ„ of your estate foundation of you faith which you lay upoÌ„ the sands for though the church is to be respected and honoured above all societies in the world her doctrines admonitions censures to be regarded yet may we not make an idol of her nor set her in Gods throne himself hath taught us from the beginning that the Annointed preist may syn to thr syn of the people a ruler mought syn the whâ—l congregation of Israel mought syn and all were to offer sacrifieâ— for their trespasses that all flesh may learn to be silent before God and confesse theÌ„selves to err But Gods word â—trâ—th not his scriptures are as silver fined 7 times no drosse is in them therfore the scripture is above the church and that perfect rule must guide us not the imperfect doctrines of men Now wheras I shewed how the Labyrinth of your religion leadeth to the Pope the centre of your circle and
maketh him a ground of grounds whereon 〈◊〉 bâ—ild our faith that he must tell us what is divine scripture and vvhat is the meaning of every point of scripture vvhat is unvvritten veritie c. and none may doubt or contradict you give me an anansvver from Aristotle Philosophie but altogither neglect the true sophie or wisdome that is from above For by what ground from God may I be assured that the B. of Rome rather then of Eph sâ—â— c is the onely man in the world on whom my â—aith must rest oâ— that ther is such a mutual reciprocation betwixt Gods word him that the one necessarily depends on an other the word on the Pope as touching us I know the church as it is manifested by the scriptures so beareth witnes agayn of the scriptures holdeth them forth or should as the pillar ground of truth But this not alwayes nor necessarily For how thâ—n is it come to passe that the church of Ephesus which in Pauls time was the pillar and ground of truth hath long synce been swallowed up of heresies Why may I not fear also that the church of Rome whom Paul wâ—rn d not to be hie minded out to fear least God who spared not the natural branches the Iewes would also not spare her but cutt her off is swallowed up of like evils And to follow your ovvn similitude hovv do you manifest that the Pope is the onely skilful Lapidarie that must value the Carbuncles Saphirs and al other precious stones that shine in the scriptures If a Lapidary should shew you a chaulk stone and say it 〈◊〉 a diamond prize it aâ—â—ording vvould you beleev him and give him 〈◊〉 price yet you beleev the Pope vvheÌ„ he tels you that the fabulous books of â—obie and of Iudith other like apocryphal are canonical inspired of God to be prized as dear as Mosâ—s and the Prophets As he shevves little skil in this art that gives such rubbish in sted of the Topaz Chrysoliteâ— so dare I not trust him in valuing the stones upon Aarons Ephod or shevving the vertue uses of them vvhâ—r of he is more ignorant as experience hath taught them many other men Yet you refuse the holy Ghost the spirit of al truth who onely is able to value the word of God and undoubtedly to manifest the wisdom of the same to build your salvation upon a man who may himself as anon I wil prove by your own confession be the child of damnation Now verily I am loth to put my soul into his hand that hath so little care of his ovvn or make him the onely Pilote of my ship that sayles himself into the gulf of hâ—ll And wheras you vvould havâ— me giv you leav to be of Sâ—â—â—gâ—stines mind who sayd he would not beleev the scripture to be scripture without the authoritie of the church if he and you understand Christ the head of the church auctor of the scriptures good leav have you But if you mean his supposed Vicar the Pope for so your catholik church shrinketh into one man or any such prelate you may take leav if you vvill but I vvil give you none For Augustine vvho vvrote a book of â—etractations râ—pâ—â—nting his ovvn sundry errors and oversights mought err in this as vvel as in other points it is not vvisdom for any man to follovv him in all things that vvas deceived in many And this is such an assertion as behoved him eyther vvâ—l to explaine it or plainly to retract it and not to leav a stumbling block before the blind And if you vvil needs blindfold your self and folovv him yet give others leav to use their ey-sight least they fall into the ditch And herein I not you follovv Augustines stepps for when controversie was between Hierom and him about Peters syn Galat. 2. Hierom alledged many Doctors to back his opinion then desired of him as you doo now of me to give him leav to err with such men if he thought him to err Augustine answered that he had Paul himself in sted of them al yea above them al and to him he did flie and appeal from them al that were otherweise minded and asked leav of them that he mought rather beleev so great an Apostle then any other how learned so ever As you would have leav to be of Austins mind for the other point so wil I take leav to be of his practise in this Your â— argument now foloweth drawn from the difficultie hardnes to understand the scripture Wherto I answered granting some things to be difficult in the Bible but deneying the inference that therefore it is no certayn rule or square of truth Yow reply that the testimonie alledged 2. Pet. 3. 16. doth prove it for in what say you dooth S. Peter say that S. Paul is hard but concerning many points of our faith and religion as concerning predestination reprobation vocation of the gentils justification by faith of which high mysteries S. Paul is the chief and principal master I answer First you confound the things with the scripture which manifesteth the things whereas these two differ much Predestination is a hard thing for men to understand whosoever speak or write of it but the scripture that treateth hereof is playn in it self Paul is not so obscure as your Pope Secondly the Apostle saith that the unlearned unstable doo pervert or wrest these things as the other scriptures also but what is this against those that be taught of God and stablished in the truth by his spirit Evil minded men wil wrest al things be they never so playn Shal we therefore have no rule no sure grouÌ„d of our faith To come theÌ„ neer unto you in this point I freely grant that many high mysteries are in the scriptures hard to be vnderstood of us ignorant men but withal I add this that those mysteries are made more hard by your Popes determinations For wheras men mought have some good mesure of light in these mysteries by the playn scriptures it is come to passe by your Popes prelates glosses interpretations coÌ„ments c. that darknes grosse darknes hath covered many people who if they had never read any thing but the book of God inought have seen much more clearly through his grace You doe not right therfore to complayne of difficultie insufficiencie in the Prophetical and Apostolical writings Why rather mind you not theâ—saying of the holy Ghost in the scriptures Prov. 18 8. 9. The words of my mouth are al playn to him that wil understand and streight to them that would find knowledg But you make Gods holy comfortable words to be crooked dark deceivable rules and his divine oracles given for the salvation of men to be like the doubtfull Delphik oracles of the Divill uttered for mens destruction You think the late fathers and your Popes can
may say to him vvhy doe you this and that whosoever obeyes not his precepts incures the syn of idolatrie paganisme You may tell me that the Pope hath not dominion over your faith but your Canonist tel me that he can dispense against the law of God that he can dispense against the law of nature that he can dispense against an Apostle that he can dispense against the new testament yea that he can dispense concerning all the precepts of the old and nevv testament And may vve novv think that he hath not dominion over your saith or may wee think that vvhen he is come which should sit as God in the Temple of God that he wil doe greater things then these But of your Popes preeminence wee are to speak in another place To return therfore to the scripture which you deney to be an indeficient rule of our faith you objected that it had many senses and stil you stand to it as proved well I am content to leave it unto judgement But though it were so yet this is not proved that therfore it is no sure rule of our faith save by your churches exposition For why might not the church in Corinth which were made rich by Christ in all kind of speech and in all knowledge so that they were not destitute of any gift why might not that church I say declare the many senses of scripture as well as the church of Rome Or rather why may not the holy ghost shew any church or any member or Christs church the meanings of the scripture and so it remayn as a firm rule of faith and the Spirit of God the sole authentik expositor of the same But here you urge agayn your bastard phrase falsly fathered upon S. Peter that no prophesie of scripture is made by a private spirits interpretatioÌ„ though I blamed you before for speaking in such sort If you can not perceive heavenly things consider earthly Your one body hath but one spirit which gives life to the vvhole and to every member of the body The same spirit dooth quicken the hand and foot that quickneth the head and hart although a greater measure is in the principal members then in the inferiour Even so by the scriptures we learn that the catholik church is one bodie and hath one spirite and though the many members of this bodie have not one work but have received diversities of giftes yet it is the same spirit To one by the spirit is given the word of vvisdom to an other the word of knowledge by the same spirit and to an other faith by the same spirit and so all the gifts to all the members This is the most publick spirit that the church hath and every member of the church hath the same so there is no privat spirit which Christians have as you by tradition it seemes have learned Now seeing all Christians have the same spirit that the Pope himself unlesse he have the spirit of Satan how is it that he onely must be the publik spirit and interpreter of the word Because say you he is the head of the church and hath the promise of our Saviour that his faith should not fayl him This I deney Now you beleeve it because the Pope himself tells it you for your ovvn privat spirit may assure you of nothing I wil disprove it by your next words and knowen experience For you say he may err in matter of fact and syn aswell as an other man then say I he may goe to the Divil for his facts and synns as vvell as an other man then is he the successor of Iudas Iscariot not of Simon Peter then the gates of hel prevaile against him And thus your Rock is rent in peeces and your building is on the sands You rely upoÌ„ one whom you know not but he may be a reprobate a child of the Divil yea a divil incarnate as Pope Iohn the 23. was found and judged to be by the Council of Constance and then he may lye as well as his father the Divil and then if you take not heed he may murder your soul as well as his father the Divil And how then dare you make him your rock your hope your confidence to beleeve all that he sayth not to beleeve Gods word unlesse he tell you it is Gods word not to beleeve any meaning of the scriptures but as he tell you the meaning is If men were bruite beasts without understanding they could not be more overruled then thus but the Lord sayth be not as the horse and as the mule And if the inhabitants of the earth had not been druncken with the wine of her fornication the great whore could never thus have benummed their senses and bereft them of heavenly light If you deney that your Popes may be reprobates and Heariots though they may syn your own popish records will teach you by as undoubted marks upon them as ever had Cain the dearest lovers of your catholik chaire branding their holy fathers with titles of prodigious wonders monsters for their beastly lives so some of them are knowen to have dyed without repentaÌ„ce or faith in God that eyther they never had faith or els their faith failed and then Christ prayed not for them as he did for Peter so their pretended priviledge lieth in the dust The 15. of the Acts alledged for Peters primacie I have before answered and leav it unto judgment yow urge now againe vers 7. that Pâ—â—er rose up shewing therby that he was head c. a strange collection that if a man rise up to speak in an assembly he must need therfore be head you mought better have gathered so if he had sitten stil spoken for sitting of the two rather argues auctoritie then standing up But tel me I pray you in earnest when Gamaliel is sayd to rise up in the council of the Iewes in Ierusalem would you gather from this that he was the head of them all Or when Paul rose up in the synagogue of Antiochia was he therefore the head If not why dally you thus with the holy scriptures to gather such conclusions as common sense wil not bear But if you would plead for no other headship then this that your Pope may rise up and speak in councils it wil easily be granted but then if others should judge and give sentence froÌ„ the scripture as Iames there did your chair of Rome would soon be overthrown Like weight is in your next words that the first gentils were chosen by his mouth for that you should say God chose that the gentils by his mouth should hear the word of the Gospel and beleev What primacie of power you can build hereon I cannot tell order I am sure ther must be in al things so ther was with them and is with us we grant unto you
it my child my childes child that it mought never be forgotten But yet for a ground of faith unto life I would vvarn my children to hold to the scriptures as the instrument of God able to make them vvise unto salvation through the faith vvhich is in Christ Iesus as Paul sayd to his son Timothee You say it is playn that the Apostle 2. Thes. 2. speaks of such traditions as I cal humane in you I deney it have plainly disproved it in my former vvriting by the same Apostles ovvn testimonie Act. 26. 22 1. Co. 14. 37. and you have not a vvord to say against it but shun those ancient Apostolik records and betake you to later humane writers as Chrysostome But remember your ovvn vvords God is more ancient then the Divil truth then falshood The Apostle shevved his ovvn meaning long before Chrysostome had a mouth to speak But if you can better see by Chrysostoms candle then by Pauls bright sun behold vvhat the Doctor sayth Whatsoever is sought unto salvatioÌ„ all novv is fulfilled in the scriptures He that is ignorant may find there vvhat to learn he that is stubborn synful may find the scourges of the judgmeÌ„t to come vvhereof he may be afrayd he that laboureth may there find glorie and promises of eternal life This speech dooth farr better become his golden mouth then your plea for humane traditions The 2. thing vvhich you took upon you to prove or as novv you faintly say intended rather to propound then prove vvas That the scripture expounded by the catholik church is a true and indeficient rule of our faith I vvil ease you if I may of this labour if you understaÌ„d the position vvell I grant it to be true By the catholik church I trovv yovv mean not the multitude al beleevers but the head of the church So I vvillingly yield that the scriptures expounded by Christ the head of the catholik church are a true and indeficient rule of our faith But when you came to make proof of your positioÌ„ you set it dovvn thus that the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith Where all men may see your lode starr You pretend the scriptures and word of God but if a man deale vvith you by them as I novv have experience you flee to later humane vvriters If you be followed in them you retire to your Catholik church ask your meaning by the catholik church and it is the Pope with his definitive sentence as your self have expounded it to me He virtualiter as one of your side sayth is the whole church Al the other are but stales he alone is the man that must strike the stroke And if he give sentence against you I shal never trust him so you deal on the surest side for your selves You intended rather to propound then to prove this point as you say that we haue not at one time diverse proâ—s togither in the fyre and now agayn you handle it by way of velitation you say not of purpose to prove Wheras it is the mayn ground of al controversie between us For question being whither Gods written word or the Popes definitive sentence must judge rule our faith I cleav to the scriptures you to the Pope Now my ground is in part granted by your selves for the scriptures which I build upon your council of Trent hath allowed for canonical and come from God and whither you granted it or not I have given you reasons that are unanswered But your ground I utter ly deney and grant not your Popes definitive sentences to be canonical but haeretical and would have proof of that you say You lyst not yet to have this yron in the fyre belike least it burn your fingers Yet in this your velitation you bring most of your valiant men into the feild leaving out some few casshierd soldjers and brave me with a great many of S. Peters prerogatives which are indeed but a cold yron for the Pope For though al you say for Peter were granted yet nothing at al is sayd for the Bishop of Rome more then for the Bishop of Babylon You would hav men think that if you have so many men in a skirmish or velitation you have many moe against a day of battel But if these your velitaries be discomfited as some of them are already I suppose your armado wil never enter this feild Let us therfore try their strength 1. S. Peter you say is named first among the Apostles True he is so usually except in 3. or 4. places This may argue a primacie of order but of no auctoritie over his brethren The first foundation of the wall of the heavenly Ierusalem was a Iasper the stone of Benjamin th' Apostle Pauls tribe wil you grant me hence to conclude that S. Paul was head of the catholik church 2. S. Peter alone walked you say with our Saviour on the water True and there he shewed his weaknes more then others was reproved by our Saviour for his little faith Doth this deserve the headship of the church Elias and Eliseus walked through the water and Shadrach Meshach and Abednego-walked in the mids of the fyre and herein shewed their great faith yet vvere they not therfore heads of the catholik church 3. Our Saviour promised you say that hell gates should not prevail against him Our Saviour dooth say not against it that is the church of vvhich Peter vvas a principall member Hell gates shall not prevail against any true Christian are they all therfore headeâ— But hell gates if horrible synns be part of their strength have prevayled against sundry of your Popes by testimonie of your own records such I trow were not heads unlesse of the beast Apoc. 14. 17. 3. 4. He was to confirm his brethren So were all the other Apostles and Ministers as I proved at large in my former writing and marvel you bring this argumeÌ„t now again bleeding into the skirmish before you had cured any of his vvounds If you cannot heal him you should let him rest 5. Our Saviour you say washed S. Peters feet first It may be so though some Doctors doubt of it It is sure some was first for they could not all be at once It is sure also that Peter shewed then more weaknes then his brethren for which he mought well have need to be washed but not deserve to wear a triple crown as your Pope 6. S. Peter onely received a reveled promise of his particular martyrdom of the crosse Performance is more then promise Iames and Stephen suffred martyrdom before Peter And if the crosse be that vvhich must prove the headship the penitent theef may lay claim to the crown 7. He after infusion of the holy ghost first you say premulgates the gospel I would the Pope were his successor in
this Peter was first I confesse in many good things for which he deserveth praise but that he was first in this you prove not When they had the infasion of the holy Ghost they began sayth the scripture to speak It may be Peter was indeed the first for he was first in order among them and as is like in age but not in office above the other Apostles 8. The first miracle in confirmation of our faith is made by S. Peter And you shal work another miracle in confirmation of my saith if from this though it be granted you can by sound argument coÌ„clude him head as your Pope expounds the head ship Howbeit the first miracle was the speaking with strange tongues for that all men admired who was first in that neither I nor you can tell 9. He as supreme judge condemned the hypocrisy of Ananias and Saphira And Paul as supreme judge condemned the blasphemie of Hymenaeus Alexander delivering them to Satan and the forcerie of Elymas striking him with blindnes If miracles prove supremacies the church shall have many supreme heads 10. He first discovered Simon Magus and condemned him If the Pope vvould doe so too Simonie at this day vvould not be so rise When Sergius tertius Benedictus 4. got the Popedome with briberie and Alexander the â— bought the voices of many Cardinals whither was Cephas or Magus their predecessor If the vertue made Peter head the contâ—arie vice made your Popes the taile How be it your Prelates if writers say true have been more ready to receive with with Iudas then to give with Simon All these and other circumstances concurring in S. Peter showes you say manifestly that S. Peter had preeminence above all the other Apostles that he is the rock and head of the churchâ—â— They are showes in deed circumstances standing a farr off but never a one of them have striken a stroke in this your â—â—lâ—tation Peter had for the most part preeminence in order I readily grant but his office and auctoritie was one and the same with the other Apostles Mat. 28. 16. 20. Ioh. 20 21. 22 23. Paul relating the offices ordeyned of God in the church saith first Apostles secondly prophets 〈◊〉 and agayn he gave some Apostles and some Prophets but the scripture no where sayth first Peter the head of the church then Apostles And that Peter was neyther head nor Rock I proved in my former writing if you will admit of proof from Gods book if not then keep your showes and circumstances still but make no such conclusions with a manifest-lye You proceed and say that Peter was particularly pointed out by his ovvn name his fathers name and his new name Cephas that no cavil might be took at a legacie so stronglie particularly firmed unto S. Peter His legacie is no way by me impugned I know it is firme though not so great as you would make it But you impugne the legacie of the other Apostles unto whom in Peter vvas promised and after to them all generally performed whatsoever power Peter had in the ministerie of the gospel Mat. 28. Ioh. 20. Act. 2. yea you impugne the dominion of Christ himself whiles you would make Peter the Rock and Head of the catholik church contrary to the scriptures 2. Sam. 22 32. 1 Cor. 10 4. Ephe. 5 23. And whither you have answered all that I brought to prove Christ onely the Rock let the equall reader of my former writing judge you make bold and bare affirmations without proof of holy scripture or humane learning Petros you say signifies eyther a Rock or a stone but what learned auctor doo you shew for it and he was called Petros you say not Petra because the masculine gender best fitted the name of a man as if Christ were not a man unto whom the title Petra Rock is by Peter himself given 1. Pet. 2 8. But he is unto you the Rock of scandal whiles you stumble at his power and headship and give it to his enemie the Pope vnder the pretence of Peter And that your church hath made shipwrack against this Rock not onely of faith but of learning also appeares in this that you make Cephas upon Optatus credit in Greek to signifie a head as Christ you say is called the head Isa 8 28. Dan. 2. Psal. 117. Mat. 21. Rom. 9. 1. Cor 10. Ephes. 2. What doo all or any of these scriptures shew that Cephas signifies a head nothing lesse You that entwite we with my private spirits interpretation should have been better avized then thus openly and directly to oppugn the publik interpretation of the holy Ghost Ioh. 1. 43. wher Cephas is interpreted Petros a stone not Cephalee a Head Or if you think the Apostle had also a private spirit and knew not Syriak and Greek so well as Optatus yet mought you have preferred the publik approved learning of your owne linguists who interpreting Cephas a Rock shew that Optatus head wanted wit in this that he sayd it signified a head and they want conscience that upon this false ground apply these scriptures that speak of Christ the head unto a mortall creature wheras the Rock is the creator God himself as the Lxxij Greek interpreters if you wil learn of them wil teach you But let me follow your arguments You say my objection that S. Peter answered as the mouth of the Apostles and therfore had not these promises made to himself alone makes much against me for to be spokesman of all the rest the master-spring of all their judgements seems to grant him superioritie If every spokes-man were master-spring of all their judgemeÌ„ts for whoÌ„ he speaks it were something that you say but ask a jurie of any 12 men in England whither this be true in the foreman of the quest The spokesman in a Council the speaker in a parhameÌ„t are they the master-springs of all their judgments with whom they sit When Thomas when Philip when Iude spake unto Christ in the name of the rest were they master-springs of all the others judgements I perceiv your Rock the Pope hath but a weak foundation that is born up by such sandy conclusions If S. Peter could not have the prerogative of place given unto him in that he represented the church no more you say could the sonns of Abraham be two sonns in that they represented two nations You want help to make up your argument thus But Abrahams a sonns were 2. sonns stil though they represented 2. nations therfore S. Peter was S. Peter still though he represented the Church Very true all the Apostles were Apostles still though they represented the Church And so Antichrist shal be Antichrist stil though he take upon him to represent the Church yea and God himself You grant me that all the other Apostles were a foundation Apoc. 21. but not the principal Neyther
would I have you â—o grant for Christ himself is the principal vea the onely foundatioÌ„ properly all the Apostles are foundations figuratively among whom was order first second third c and excellencie in graces but not preeminence of auctoritie for they were all sent of Christ as Christ of the Father Ioh. 20. 21 and the church of Christ is builded upon them all not upon Peter onely Ephes. 2. 20. S. Peters headship you say derogates not from Christ Jesus our head since S. Peter is but subordinated to Christ Jesus and onely of his free institution That institution say I is yet to shew wherby Peter should be head more then the other Apostles The headship which you giue unto Peter dooth derogate from Christ for as the church is but one body and hath but one spirit so hath it but one Lord head Christ who is present with his Church all dayes till the worlds end walking amids the golden candlestiks of his Churches that there needs no universal Vicar but onely the Angels of every particular church as the 7. churches in Asia shew Apoc. 2. 3. But he was a head of your church and therfore I trow could not lye which sayd that Christ placed Peter as it were a certayn head to powr his gifts from him as it were into all the body for having taken him into the fellowship of the indivisible vnitie he would have him named that which himself was And elsewhere the same Pope preacheth that if God would have any thing to be commune unto other Princes with Peter he never gave but by him whatsoever he gave to others Thus rored the Lion of Rome against the Lion of the tribe of Iudah What marvel was it then though an other of your Popes praying to S. Peter as to his God sayd Jurline thine ears o blessed Peter prince of th'Apostles and hear me thy servant c. acknowledging further his faith to be in him If these things derogate not from Christ our head I know not what can doo It is no marvel though one of your Canonists called him Our Lord God the Pope for the Pope is Peter as Father Campian telleth us and Peter as Leo sayth is assumed into the fellowship of the indivisible vnitie that is of God and therfore is made a God and prayed unto as a God and yet you would bear men in hand nothing is derogated froÌ„ God or Christ. Yea your self in your former writing made him the vniversal pastor Ioh. 10 and he I am sure is God for he is one with the Father And if Peter was but subordinate as you say to Christ your Popes I trow be now superordinate for Christs kingdom was not of this world neyther did his servants fight he was no Judge or divider of inheritances but Popes are fighters with the tâ—poral sword and have their kingdome of this world as politik princes and divide not onely private mens inheritances but even whole kingdoms deposing Princes disturbing States as the world hath long felt with greef From Peters primacie you slide along to the Popes supremacie for which having no word of God nor any so ancient testimonie as the Apostles you flee to the name of the council of Nice where some say the foundation began But against such innovation when or whersoever it was hatched I allege the whole new testament of Christ where Angels and Bishops of Churches are found of equal auctoritie not one above an other And me thinks I could fetch your popes supremacie from more ancient ground then the council of Nice even from Dioâ—rephes who loved preeminence in the Apostles time But this ground is slabby and the Pope I know wil be loth to set his foot on it You proceed therfore with a generall reason thus The ecclesiastical hierarchie is no worse governed then any temporal regiment For it is compared to a kingdome governed by one King Mat 25 to a familie wel governed Heb. 3. to a camp wel ordered Caâ—t 6. But in al wel ordered common weales there is ever required some visible iudge besides the written law since there must be a supreme iudge to take notice of controversies when they arise aâ— 2. there must be one to explicate the sense of the law and to pronounce sentence c. and 3. there must be one to compell those that refuse to the due observation thereof Now in the church there arise like difficulties in her lawes explication c. Therfore S Peters successor indued by the holy ghost in all difficulties of moment is to be sought unto for counsell is to be heard with obedience when he counselleth is to be obeyed when he proceeds with his powrful jurisdiction This your reason is faultie from head to foot The first part faileth in comparing togither a visible humane politie and a visible hierarchie Wheras humane polities concerning worldly matters are merely visible earthly temporal but ecclesiastical polities are partly invisible heavenly and eternal Those respecting this world and life onely have worldly dominion and glorie these respecting chiefly the next world life have no worldly dominion or glorie but is for the meek poor persecuted for righteousnes sake c. Mat. 5. My kingdome sayth Christ is not of this world Ioh. 18. 36. Again the rulers of the gentils have domination over them they that are great exercise auctoritie over them but it shal not be so among you c. Mat. 20 25 26. These things being thus minded distinguished I grant that the church is no worse governed considering the nature thereof then any temporall regiment considering the nature of it Secondly you fail in applying to your Pope the scriptures intended of Christ onely For he not the Vicar of Rome is the King of that one kingdom Mat. 25. he is the master of that one familie Heb. 3 1 6. he is the Captayn of that ordered camp Cant. 6. Apoc. 19. 11. 13 14 16 c. So that he that challengeth these titles and honours besides Christ is Antichrist To the second part of your reason I answer 1. that in wel ordered coÌ„mon weales the lawes are above the magistrates according to Tullies saying as lawes are above the magistrates so magistrates are above the people What good order may we then think is in the papacie where Popes are above Gods lavv 2. That for explicating the sense of the law c. in wel ordered common weales it is a ruled case that he who made the law should interpret the law According hereunto in the church the lawes given of God in the scriptures are aboue the Pastors that govern the people by them yea above Kings Gods spirit which gave those lawes is the supreme interpreter of them As for outward order in difficulties the Preists lips should preserve knowledge and the people should seek the law
having fayled in his fidelitie is in special excited unto duty diligence al the other should be excluded Doe you not see hovv after this Paul shevveth Eph. 4. not Peter onely but Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers to be given of Christ for the building up of his church Your conclusion to be inferred hereupon if you conclude the question wil be much more unreasonable The point you undertook to prove vvas that not Gods vvord in the Bible but the catholik churches yea the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith To confirm this haeresie you produce here Christs charge to Peter Freed my sheep Behold Novv the strength of your argument If Peter vvas to feed Christs sheep then not Gods vvord in the scriptures but Peters definitive sentence and consequently the Popes is an indeficient rule of faith But Peter vvas to feed Christs sheep Iohn 21. Frgo c. The unreasonablenes of vvhich consequence if the bare rehearsal of it doo not convince may be shewed by the like thus If the Bishops of Ephesus vvere to feed the church of God then not Gods vvord in the scripture but their definitive sentences vvere indeficient rules in matters of faith But the Bishops of Ephesus vvere to feed the church of God Act. 20. 28. Ergo. If the Elders of the churches of Galatia Cappadocia Asia and Bithynia were to feed the flocks of God then not Gods word in the Bible but their definitive sentences were indeficient rules in matters of faith But the Elders of those churches were to feed the flock of God 1 Pet. 5 â— 2. Ergo. Behold what deep waters you have digged out from the Rock of Rome their spring I trow comes from the bottomlesse pitt If you say those Elders were under Peter as a head therfore they were to feed with his definitive sentence not their own First I deny that so they were under him and you shal never prove it whiles Rome gates doo stand though I grant their office was inferiour to the Apostles Secondly if you could prove it yet would it make against you for if because Peter was their head therfore they must feed with his doctrine onely then because Christ was Peters head Peter was to feed with Christs doctrine onely But Christ was Peters head acknowledged by Peter himself to be Arch pastor so taught by Christ himself Iohn 10. Therfore Christ definitive sentence onely not Peters much lesse the Popes is the indeficient rule of our faith And thus my cause is confirmed and yours overturned by your own weapon Yet you procede and say besides Christ speaks to S. Peter that he should feed his general flock though he may speak unto the other Apostles that they should feed their particular charges I would we might once have an end of words of wind You say al things but prove nothing unlesse your definitive sentence also must be taken for a law But then I am sure it is against Christs law for as he neyther used the word general to Peter nor the word particular to the other Apostles so wheÌ„ he sent them with their charge al indifferently it was unto al nations yea into al the world to preach the gospel to every creature and as the Father sent him so sent he them And where now I pray you were their particular charges But let it be as you say let the Apostles and al Christian Bishops their successors have these precincts in al nations in al the world and what place is over and beside let your Peter the Pope have there to menage his supremacie But here you bring your S. Leo to speak for S. Peter and I know he was his freind for I shewed before how he placed Peter in the fellowship of the indivisible unitie so making him a God I know also have shewed that in the same 3. anniversarie sermon which you cite he speaketh more for S. Peter then you bring here how be it though the Lion roreth he hath got no prey For the headship hath been proved to be Christs not Peters the Apostleship to be Peters with the other Apoltles And though you again and again doe barely affirm S. Peter was head of al the rest of the Apostles yet I must tel you again again that I hold not your definitive sentence nor the Popes neyther to be a right rule of faith but if you can bring the word of God for you that thrâ—ugh his grace I wil gladly receive In the end of this your velitation you leav me to impuâ—ne â— B. â—armines doctrine as it heth c. But your captayn comes not into this feild he lyes intrenched within the walls of Rome and triumphes in the Vatican It is you that have bid me battel and as you entred not these lists without an alarme so you wil not depart I trow without an io triumphe Yet to say the truth in answering you I have answered your Cardinal for your reasons be his you have taken them out of his skoncâ— Onely you have culled them out here and there in other order have taken the most pregnant arguments that he hath Which being by him and by you propounded by me now answered you are to look whither the propugning of them shallye upon him or on you against this my impugnation Or if you wil let them dye you may sound the retrait The 3. and last thing which you promised to prove was that this rule the indeficient rule of faith is onely found in the Roman Catholik church sentence and not in privat mens illuminations or motions of a priâ—â—t and unseen spirit Both parts of this your divided proposition I disallow and mainteyn a third viz that this rule is to be found in the writings Prophetical and Apostolical because as your Cardinal hath wel sayd nothing is more known nothing more certeyn then the holy scriptures which are conteyned in them and this is a most certayn and a most safe rule of beleeving Before vvhen you came to shew your proof it was that your Roman church is the true and onely catholik church of God Which though I doo deney yet if I did grant it it would not prove your assertion For it is the voice of the bridegroom not of the bride which is the ground of mens faith the catholik church is to receiv lawes and rules from her head Christ not to prescribe lawes or rules to her members There is one Lawgiver who is able to save and to destroy But because your church must first be proved true catholik before her sentence can be approved therefore I was content to look into this first branch requiring proof that your Roman church is the true then the onely catholik for I deney both What proofs you brought before how I answered them I leav to indifferent consideration and wil now again take
sufficient rule of our faith 2. That the scriptures expounded by the catholik church is a true and indeficient rule of our faith or as you set it dovvn vvhen you come to make proofe That the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith 3. That this rule is onely found in the Romane Catholik church sentence and not in private mens illuminations and motions of a private unseen spirit Or as after you expresse it vvhen you labour to prove it That your Romane Church is the true onely catholik church of God Your arguments for these vvere long discourses I could not therfore ansvver but by refelling your treatises In these I folovv your footing still in my last vvriting novv againe sent unto you Hold I pray you to the points in hand and be as breif as you can I vvil labour to satisfy you in fevv vvords But if you make outrodes to long narrations blame not the length of my ansvvers vvhich are but according to your ovvn size eeke your arguments no more with humane testimonies til you have disproved the certainty and sufficiencie of the Divine oracles which if it were possible for you to doo you might colourably perswade fools unto Atheisme but no wife man would ever suffer affliction for your traditional and humane religion Be you warned yea intreated to save your sowl from eternal flames God hath offred more meanes of mercy unto yow then to many others if yow shut your eyes against the light which shineth in darknes though the darknes comprehends it not yow wil but heap up unto your self wrath against the day wrath but my prayer unto God is for your salvation in Christ to whose grace I coÌ„mend yow From Amsterdam this 28. of May 1613. Henr Ainsworth I. A. his answer to the former letter To his loving freind Mr Henry Aynsworth at Amsterdam deliver this SOme week agoe Mr Henry Aynsworth I received your letter and your last reply coppied out againe as you say to give me satisfaction An answer whereof some three yeres agoe I had returned if the papers then and I had not been severed And long ere this since the intended deliverie therof I had fully satisfied each point thereof if some three weekes after the notified aryvall thereof the deliverie had not been delayed For your paynes and good will I thank you But I wonder that through private affectation so much payns and good wil should be so far from being secundam scientiam that a man might doubt rather whether you writ not contra conscientiam since to any indiffereÌ„t judgement the motives for our catholik religion and for her doctrinal assertions are so cleare and therfore doubt not but that I shall answer you although her well grounded truth would defend it selfe though I were silent But God willing I wil shortly send you the answer to your large biscourse and to give you taâ—t of that which I wil prove in fully answering your replication though to write so large a coppie forth is more tedious theÌ„ difficult I wil prove these seven points at least First I will show the weaknes of your reasons 2. I will prove that not onely the written word of God but the unwritten word of God tradition and the authoritie of the Church is the rule of our faith 3. I wil show how my five Arguments for all your pretended answers remaine in ful force 4. I will prove how you walk in a circle proving the word of God by your private spirit and your privat spirit by the word of Gods 5. I wil defend our catholick opinion to be free from any circular or ridiculous proofe 6. I wil show the Popes definitive Sentence togither with a generall Councell at least to be an assured groundwork of faith 7. I will show to you or any indifferent judgment that your building is on sand and the resolution of your faith at the last day of judgement groundless and full of feare But now to show that you have in nothing answered my last letter I propounded certaine necessary questions breifly for the more clearing of this or any other disputation to be had between us of which though there were twelve in number yet you have not answered one word to any which eyther showes you glosed before wheÌ„ you sayd you writ all before for my good or else rather that you could not answer one which you might have doone in foure or 5. lines denying or granting So that I must needes inferr that you cannot show which of the Apostles did teach your doctrine that you now hold 2. that you can not show which are the essentiall poincts of your religion 3. that no ancient Doctor did maintayn the doctrine you now held 4. that you can not show who in what tyme and on what occasion did suppress that doctrine 5. that you can not show your church to have begun to be invisible in the time of persecution or in the time of peace 6 that S. Laurence nor any of the primitive martyrs were of your religion 7. that you approve of no ancient historie and that you must graunt Constantine our first Christian Emperour not to be of your religion 8 that no one of the 3. conversions of England was to your religion 9. that you must graunt the church of Christ to be more subject to invisibilitie ruin subversion then the synagogue of the Jewes 10. that you have no Bible or writen word of God that you allow of in all and so that you have no rule of faith for all To all these you answer with silence in your hart calling them carnall motives no doubt 3. I answer you that in putting downe breifly my 5. argumeÌ„ts in forme I show you have not answered But you in your silence to them showes that your answers consists onely in multiplicity of words that admitts no abbreviation 4. You then set downe your 2 conclusions and my 3. contrary assertions â—ou blame my tediousnes but I answer my outroades are to trace onely your wildgoose chase that is bounded in no circuit of a Methedicall discourse I shall be the longer in this present discourse to come so to avoide proliritie hereafter still referring my selfe to this to come how long so ever you shall dispute Desist then Mr Henry Ainsworth to follow your private spirits phancie hold your self by that three fold chaine â—inâ—â—ntius Lyrinensis prescribes that is antiquitie vniversalitie and consent so should you save your self froÌ„ that headlong precipitium that the authour of evil the Divil tempts you to when by the privat interpretation of scriptures he instâ—uates to a man Mitte deorsum S. Math â— for it is written Psal. 90. cast thy self from the rock of the church scriptum est froÌ„ the trabition and authoritie of the church from the consent of holy Councels and fathers for scriptum est your private spirit must be your tower God send you
writing yea you might better have scaÌ„ned first and answered that place cited by me out of hâ—lâ— S. Chrysost on the 2. of the Thess. oratione 4. Stand and keep your traditions where the holy Father sayes it is plain the holie Fathers did not deliver all things vp â—â—istle but many things without writing and those things also are worthâ— of faith and S. Chrysost sayes Est traditio nihil quâ—ras ampâ—ius which wordes are so playn that they made Or Iâ—wâ—l to say they were words unworthy so hâ—lp a father And that S. Ambrose did approve of tradition is plain out of his 34 sermon on Lent where he reproving those that would keep certaine dayes after Lent when this after fâ—st was neither as the feast of Lent neither delivered by the authoritie of our antestors So that we see if wee should but give Mr. H. A. the Sâ—â—cons place but to put oile into our lampes he would adde his dust and askes to quench it rather 〈◊〉 contemning still as he doth the authoritie of the holy Fathers in terming their authoritie produceâ— against him dust and ashes 17. Mr. Henry Aynsworth objects against me that I have turned over his third and fourth Arguments oâ— reasons denying them to prove that which they were cited for I answer I possed them over But see here Mr â— A. hath turned them off the ladder to their last dâ—steniâ— not showing that they proved ought what he intended by them we may suppose his reasons were wounded to death in the answerâ—â— the former oâ— like runaâ—ates have forsaken their armes that of â—â—â—ted barely before but one appeareth in his likeness I hope ouâ— adversarie will acknowledge or amend his slight dealing herein 18. The second part that Iam to prove is that the rule of our faith is not onely the written word but joyntly the unwritteÌ„ word of God tradition and the authoritie of the church councells and Fathers is the ultimate decyder of all matters of controveâ—ste This I prove first thus That which was the totall rule of our faith before the written word of God may be well the partiall rule of our faith after where the written word of God doth not sufficiently eâ—â—ressâ— divers mysteries of us to be beleeved But traditioÌ„ was a sufficient yea and the total rule of our faith til Moses tyme the first 〈◊〉 in of the holy ghost go tradition now togither with the written word is a sufficieÌ„t rule of our faith My major through out this whole tract shal be proved My minor is graunted by Mr H. A. 20. Secondly Not onely before the law of Moses men weâ—â— wholly directed by the month of tradition but after also as it appeares in Deut. 3â— verse 7. Ask thy fatners and they shall annantiate unto thee ask thy auncestors and they shall tell thee showing that of many thinges that were to be beleeved wee should depend of the instruction of our auncestors for in the wordes young 〈◊〉 diatâ—â—y before that is implied coâ—â—ra generationes singulas and Psal. 43 1. Oh Lord we have heard with our eares our fathers have 〈◊〉 unto us that which thou hast wrought in their dayes and in the ancients dayes Prov 8 1. Heare oh sonne the discipline of thy father and doe not leave the law of thy mother Isa. 38 19. The father shall make knowen to his sonne this truth where truth discipline showes rather matters of discipline and doctrine then matters of fact as Mr H. A. would interpret and Jere. 6 16. Stand upon the wayes and see ask of the ancient pathes what is the right way and walk in it and ye shall find rest unto your souls which is playne there that the Prophet doth not onely speak of matter of faith but to prevent error and 〈◊〉 of doctrine also see Eccles 8 11. 4 Esdr. 14 3. 2 Tim. 2 15. 1 Tim. 6 20 2. Tim. 2 1. what can be hence inferrâ—d but that the Israâ—lites and Christians were to be directed by the help of traditions See the holy fathers so firme and so frequent for this great truth that falshood it self of our adversaries cannot tell how to oppose see 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cited before number 16. 〈◊〉 in the â—ere of our Lord 80 lib. 3. â— 4. calles tradition dives deposicoâ—um a rich treasurie or â—usrodie Eâ—emens 〈◊〉 lib. â— Strema â— 4 in the yeare 200 say is that the knowledge of traditisÌ„ by succession is come from the Apostles et lib. 7 Stromat â— 9. he calls unwritten tradition the 〈◊〉 of truth Origenes in the yeare 240 in his 5. 〈◊〉 in Numeros et trâ—â—t 29 in Math teacheth that wee beleeve and doe many things by tradition S. Athanasius in his epistle ad Epiâ—tâ—te tuâ— sayes That it is sufficient to answer to his adversaries that it is not the doctrine of the Catholick church that the holy fathers have not thought so S. Basil also sayes he can beleeve many things by the unwritten witness of the Apostles the 2. Councel of 〈◊〉 in actione 7. approves the authoritie of unwritten traditions D. â—ier in the yeare 390 in his dialogue contra Lucifer affirmes that for his part if ther were no scripture yet the consent of the whole church were sufficient And S. August De baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 7. c. 53 affirmes that which the universal church holdes neyther is it instituted but was ever reteyned we may judge most rightly to be delivered by the Apostles idem epist. 86. ad â—asul Yea if our adversaries testimonie is availeable in confirming a truth against themselves for us See how Martin Luther in his Lypsick disp submits himself to the judgment and determination of the holy church and in his epist. ad Marchionâ—â— Brandeburg which is to be found in his second in Germane language folio 2 3. He is not ashamed to say it is an horrible thing to heare or say that which is contrarie to the uniforme testimonie of faith and the doctrine of the holy Catholick church that from above a thowsand with uniform consent she had kept John Calvin in his book against Pigâ—â—ius bragâ—ingly but with dissimulation affirms that he would not refuse the triall of the universall Church and warrant of tradition Phil. Melancthon in his epist. ad Frâ—der Myream De locis veteris Theol de caena Domini affirmes that it is not safe to depart from the consent of the ancient church and in his epistle ad Iohannem Cratonem vâ—â—tatista he confesseth that doubt in a mans conscience is a tortuâ—er and that the vniversall consent of doctrine must prevaile for confirming of a truth and he graunts that the best Masters are Irenae us Tertullian and S. Augustin that have left many monuments of truth for us to whom they did adjoyne the rule of faith the suffrages of the learned the consent of the Apostolicall churches and this is that which he affirms they deduced from the
that there is more Majestie in Ecclesiastes then in the Ecclesiasticus How will Luther demonstrate against the whole church that S. James epistle is strawie the epistle to the Hebrewes Apocalyps etc. to be doubted of 40. When I object against you that the Maniâ—hâ—i Montanist Arrian Peâ—agian and all other hereticks will boast of this private spirit Nou answer that I have a mist before my eyes or else I would discerne them I answer I doe distinguish them and leave them 〈◊〉 by the church of God to the pit of hell but not by my private spirit but by the ordinarie meanes the definitions and declarations of the church whose office is to distinguish these spirits infalliblie whose doctrine wee are punctuallie to follow if wee will have in all things this spirit of truth and with one answer I satisfie the multiplicitie of places of scripture he apâ—d vp to no purpose 41. Wheras you would whet the edge of the Jewes sword against mâ— in that they may object against Christians the lawe and the Prophets yea and antiquitie I answer the lawe and Prophets yea antiquitie it self promising our Saviours coÌ„â—ing and fulfilled by his coÌ„ming in each particular cirstumstance prophâ—â—ied and promised doth rebat the edge And I could show out of the 〈◊〉 â—abbines themselves Sâ—hillaes prophecies preaching of S. John Baptist conversion of S Paul the destruction of Jerusalem their â—â—rse and continued dispersion onely to be justly inflicted on them for truâ—â—fying of our Saviour I could shew strange motives of their 〈◊〉 errouâ— Neither can the Jew as you object as we against the â—urk or and Hâ—râ—sie our beginâ—er beginning increase and declyning estate For the Jewes can show our beginner their Messias our beginning he buriall of the cerâ—monial law propheâ—ied and performed by all titles of truth but who can justly shew our declining estate 42. Neyther is the objection of a Jew against a new Christian because he went out of them of such force as our is against Julâ—an or any other Apostata For they cannot defend themselves with any show of truth as we can defend our cause with evident motives of â—râ—dibilitie as I shall hereafter show And Julian might object that Paganismâ— is more ancient then Christianitiâ— but not then the 〈◊〉 law which was compleat and â—erfected as it was prophecied and promised by the coming of the new lawe Where you say Gods word and spirit in the scriptures must be the bulwark I answer a bulwark but not able to defend you from gun shot and a sâ—onse onely for your selves For as yet there was never any of your sects protestant or any other heretitâ— that was able to convert any nation to their religion But men of our religion haue converted all nations doe still convert as well witnesseth both the Judges Japonia yea and Câ—ina it self 43. I showed you one way how the high preisthood did not erre in the condâ—mnation of our Saviour in that the Preisthood was â—â—served in Christ Jesus person True it is the Hipghpreists Scribes Rulers questioned this but their ignorance was most viâ—â—ible by their own lawe and by that lawe he should live since that law declared him to be the sonne of God 44. Against your forced rock and running over many wrâ—sted places of scripture to prove the church of God invisible it were sufficient for me to oppose many evident and clear places of scripture interpreted by the holy fathers Greek and Latin for the pepetuall visibilitie of the church 2. 〈◊〉 â— v 13. 1. Paâ—â—l 22 10. Psal 4â— 17 Psal. 45 5. Psal. 47. 9. Psal. 86. 1. Psal. 88 29 Psal. 101 17. Ps. 128 1. Psal. 131 14. Cant. 3 4. Isa. 9 7. Isa. 33 20. where the perpetual flourishing of the church of God is described Isa. 40 8. Isa. 59 21. Isa. 60 â—9 where it is said the Sun and Moon of the church shall not cease Jer. 6 16. Dan. 2 44. Ose. 2 19. where God is described to espouse eternally his espouse unto him Mich 4 1. wher the church is described to be a high seated mountain to whom all people have recourse Mat. 5 15. where the citie seated on a hil can not be obscured Math 26. 18. where the church is described to be built upon a rock against which hell gates shall not prevaile 28. Math. 2. Our Saviour sayes he will be with his disciples to the end of the world Luâ— 1 32. Luâ— 21. 32. Luk. 22 31. Where Christ sayes he prayed for S Peter that his faith should not fail him Joh. 14. 1â— He sayes the father shall give them another spirit which shall remaine with them eternally John 17 11. Act. 5 38. Ephe. 4 11. yea and the Creed made by the Apostles doth acknowledge the perpetuall flourishing of the church of God I beleeve the catholick church whose generalitie can not stand without visibilitie 45 I answer to your contrarie doctrine that the church of God never since it was a church hath erred If Genes 6. ther was then a church AdaÌ„ the head did err in fact not in doctrine if we should graunt that he did err our adversaries are bound as wel as wee to answer since not onely the visible church then with us but the invisible church with them should have erred But true it is that thers was then no perfect church but onely a materiall and a formall beginning of a church 46. To that of Gen. 6. where all their harts are described to be set on mischeef is not to be understood that all then were naught For not long before Mâ—â—husalem and divers holy men died Sem Jâ—phet also were zealous of Gods honour and their wives also most religious in whom the church of God might be preserved 47. I answer also In the time of Moses Aaron and the people did commit idolatrie in worshipping the golden â—alfe yet Moses the head of all and all the Levites were free from that sinne So that wee read Erod 32. If there be any of God sayes Moses let him joâ—ne with mee and all the sonnes of Levi were gathered vnto him 48. I answer In the time of Judges after Josh. The Israelites are described as though they had sinned al which is an usual figurative speech of Syâ—echdoche of the whole for the part as Exod. 9 6. wher it is sayd all the beasts of Egypt are dead Isa. 2. v. All nations shal flow unto him Phil. 2 21. All men seek their own Ioh. 3. v. 33. And no man did receive his testimonie 49. To that of the Prophet Elias 3. Reg. 19. where Elias complaines that he is left alone I answer that then the people were divided into two kingdomes the one of the Jewes and the other of the Israelites Aâ—hab did govern the Israelites but holy Josaphat did govern the Jewes the one did destroy altars and kill Prophets the other did heare Prophets erect altars And
know that of old dayes God amongst us chose that the Gentils by my mouth should heare the word of the Gospel and beleeve In which chapter first we may note by the way verse 6. that the Apostles and auncients assembled to consider of this word which place â—oÌ„futes your proceedings that would have all men to give their voice and to be present in Councel which is the place of the Apostles and auncients and not of many others though holie men that were at Jerusalem according to that of Deut. 17. Malach. 2. Agge 1 2 Lur. 10. 16. where the sentence of the Preist is sayd to settle that which is hard difficult doubtful must keep the law must be heard as God 73. 2. I note the 7. verse that when there was made a great disputation ech partie producing his reasons and arguments for their assertion S. Peter rising up and speaking by his authoritie composed that great disputation that is settled the height of their differeÌ„ce which argues superioritie For what decorum or manners were it if two Doctors of like authoritie disputing the third of the same or of lesse authoritie as Calvin would have should stop the current of their disputation when it touched the point of the difficultie when there was a great disputation when their reasons as the text both not obscurely note were in aequi librio unsettled wheÌ„ there was made a great disputation So that we see it is a signe of great authority to speak so first as to interrupt the great disputation to prefixe an end to firme a definition to the proposed question 74. As for that which you object out of the 13. and 19. verse froÌ„ that of S. James giving sentence from the scriptures shâ—wes that out of your partial affection you would be content to give with Calvin primacie to S. James so to derogate from St. Peters and the Popes authoritie WheÌ„ nothing else caÌ„ be inferred out of S. James but that which S. Hierome epist. 12. inter epistolas Aug inferro that which is implied in the 12. verse et tacuit omnis multitudo and all the multitude held their peace showing thereby the power of his decision and that as Saint Hier inferrs S. James and all the Apostles did passe Who wil not then acknowledge a general authoritie in him that with his sentence composeth different suffrages and motives 75. That which S. James speakes verse 15. and 16. is nothing else but a confirmation or an explication of S. Peters sentence First he approves S. Peters vocation mentioned by S. Peter by the testimonies of the Prophets and nextly he doth as to win the goodwil of the Judaizing Christians moderate that sence of S. Peter that would have all legal ceremonies removed that so they might take that speech better at his hands then at S. Peters S. James being their Bishop of Hierusalem he expouÌ„ds that which he thought most conventent to be done And the whole Councel and not onely Sainct James promulgates determines that decree So that we see the definition of the principal question is onely S. Peters and the prudential Councel to the setling of the busynes to each parties liking is onely S. James 76. But presently after to signifie his willingnes to say something he objects that Peters sitting still would rather argue authority theÌ„ his rising up To which I answer that admitting most true it were his sitting doth argue his authoritie as well as his rising up and S. Peters judiciall and attentive hearing the debating of the question till there was a great disputation and then being noted to begin to rise that to rising the heat of disputation comming to head and the disputers vehemencie requiring a period that he beganne then to rise argue preheminencie of authoritie And it is not sayd that he did speak these words risen but when he was rising what have you then concluded 77. But on goes our subtil disputer to prosecute his great doubt and argues out of the 5. of the Acts 34. where Gamaliel is sayd to rise up in the councel of the Jewes v. 34. But here he conceals what the Church distinguisheth calling him a Doctor of the Lawe and so signifying that it was his office as Doctors that be Cardinals doe in the Popes conclavi to cramine matters by way of argument and not to determine and define then he conceals the immediate cause of his rising up including a farr inferior office then that of the head v. 35. to coÌ„maund the men to be put forth onely a while to signifie that he spake rather like a freind then like a judge And that Gamaliel did secretly favour the Apostles then the very wordes of the text teacheth and notes how your doctrine not grounded on God and reasons as yours sâ—â—â—l come to ruine he bidds them take heed what they mean to doe with these men showing that Thâ—â—â—as and foure hundred men Judas and his companie that followed all perished and here inferring that they should leave to persecute them For if their work were not of God of it self it would come to ruâ— as all other heresies and sects have and shall so that we see the text cited by you is the pronouncer of your own ruin 78. And that Gamaliels sentence was rather a favorable perswasion then a chief Judges resolution appeares that howsoever he was a pollitike statesman yet he was a secret favourer of the Apostles and their preaching For he did procure S. Stephens burial 20 myles from Jerusalem as B Lucianus Martyr notes in the invention of the bodie of S. Stephen Also he receives and nouriseth Nicodemus when he was spoiled and expelled by the Jewes buried him there by S. Stephen as B Lucianus testifieth 79. And that which you bring out of the 17. of the Acts 16 rather hinders then furthers your purpose since we may gather that as S. Paul being intreated by the princes of the synagogue verse 15 to preach took upon himself without any more to doe rising up and with his hand beckening for silence showes there that he was the cheife preacher so S. Peter rising and composing their controversie shewes that in that kind he was the cheefe So that we see we have woven the webbe to intangle flies of your own kind 80. That which you bring before out of the 2. of Peter v. 20 cited by me thus No prophecie is made by privat interpretation you call but doe not prove it a bastard phrase showing that such ill befitting termes proceedes from a bad conscience Your glosse Ephes. 4 4. Rom. 12 4. 1 Cor. 12 4. v. 8 9. urges against your selfe For though there is the very self same soule in the head and foot and in each part yet it worketh otherwise in the head then in the foot as the spirit in the cheese of his Church then his members so as it is the office of the head to decyde
busyness and not of the foot so it belongs unto the head of the church and not to every particular craftsman to interpret scriptures and verse 21 the self same doctrine is explicated in that it is sayd For not by mans will was prophecie brought at any tyme but the holy men of God spake inspired by the Holy Ghost showing that the self same spirit whrewith they were writteÌ„ and resident in the church must interpret scripture And that you ought not condemne as you doe the uniforme consent of all the fathers of all ages and nations Thus dooth Mr H. A. as a boie hoodwinâ—kt at blindman buffe belabor himself and his own fellowes in stead of his adversaries 81. And that which I bring for congruencie for the primarie of S. Peter Act 15 ver 7. where he would gather that if the Gentiles were chosen by his mouth to heare the gospel that he was chosen also to preach unto them his inference is nothing to the purpose since we graunt the Popes primacie is from God and not of the election of men 82. I graunt that Pope Stephen the 7. called Stephen 6 did revoke many decrees which yet are not definitions of Pope Formosus in the yeare 89. But this argues onely a violence in fact and not an error in doctrine and faith And hence I inferr that it argues an essential assistaÌ„ce of the holy Ghost that could mainteyn his church though in the hand of the bad water the gardeÌ„ of the church through stonie water pipes make his arke of Noe to flâ—ate though in the tempestuous flood Genes 7 8. mainteyn his church against hell gates But all that can be opposed herein doth not prove that the Pope Stephen did this as the head of the church but out of the violence of his private spirit which appears in that Sigebertus notes that all that were with him reclaimed from that violent proceeding And in the Councel he did approve onely of his fact being flattered by factious Cardinals Sergius Benedictus Martinus 83 Note also that at this unaccustomed course of the Pope the corporal church of Lateran fel down and the Images of the church where Pope Formosus body was intombed did salute Formosus as Luitiprandus lib. 1. c. 8. witnesseth And though I graunt that Pope Stephen was a wicked man in the course of his privat spirit yet we may see the great respect that Fulco the Arch B of â—hemes did humblie and submissively salute him which was not in regard of his particular defects but as he was head of the church In which respect S. John the 9 that condemneth him and his complices yet calles him Pope of happie memorie All which motives makes a strong argument for us that since of so many Popes so few could be taâ—ed though most of them unjustly of our adversaries yet for all the wickednes of some God hath still preserved the vnitie of faith that although all the other sees have had many hereticks that have governed Yet the sea of Rome had never any that by his definitive sentence did define heresie And we have read of an Arrian Bishop promoted to the see of Rome that he might defend Arianism yet he being elected to that sea he did condemne that heresie 84. The Canonists that you cite as to extend the power of the Pope above the lawe of God no doubt are falsly understood or cited But to disprove them in each particular I cannot in that I am not so wel read in the canon lawe and if I were I am in prison and have not commoditie of bookes and to send for 10. or 12. great volumes to look 3 or 4 places that I assure me are eyther falsly alleaged or injuriously applied will not quit cost especially since I convince you of one especial untruth hereafter where you say the Canouâ—sts call and esteeme the Pope our Lord God the Pope 85. But diâ—â—urnished of bookes as I am I thought good to let the authour to the protestant pulpit babell that hath no doubt seene pondered the decretalls answer you that on credit of some crackt cracking Crashaw that ingrosses such babels for whole sale whose citation or such like you are glad to reâ—â—â—le 86. For that which the author cites out of Decret 40 in appendice ad c. 6. The wordes of our Countreyman Boniface famous for sanctitie of life and justly called the Apostle of Germanie Where he setts down rather a historie then a decree of doctrine a matter of fact rather then a doctrinall definition True it is he sayes men rather sought instruction from the mouth of the Bishops then from mouth of holy scriptures and tradition Yet to show how farr he was from flatterie he showes that as the Pope may doe most good so he is eternally scourged with the Divill himself if he draw by his exaÌ„ple others into hell So that wee see he showes rather what was done theÌ„ what should be done As if a maÌ„should say such a maÌ„ is his Master it followes not that he should approve the unnaturall maistership Yea S. Boniface was so farr from preferring the Pope before God that in the self same canon he teacheth the contrarie in eadem appendice ad cap. 6. dist 40. Where he affirmes Christianitie doth depend of the Pope in secundo loco post Deâ— in the second place after God 87. And wheras Decretum distinct 19. â— 6 where it is sayd that the decretalls are numbred amongst canonicall scriptures that is to be understood in regard of the canonicall writings of the Councels and not in regard of canonicall writings of the scriptures in which sense both the begining bodie and end of the book showes that Cretian speaketh 88. As for that M. H. A. writes that the Pope can dispence against the lawe of nature you must know that things may be prohibited by the lawe of nature after a threefold manner First when there is a prohibition of a thing intrinsecall ill in it self and that by no circumstance it may be made good as to hate God or to lie and this is indispensable to the Pope 2. Other things are intrinsecall ill and prohibited till some matter or circumstance be changed as to steal in extreame necessitie or to kill and execute by publick authoritie and in these the Pope can dispence according to the cessatioÌ„ of the matter or mutation of the circumstance 3. Things in their nature may be commonly ill yet for the publick good there may be given some dispensation and so the Pope dooth dispense in mariages if you would have satisfaction to what accurring doubt soever therein read Sanches de Matrimonio My third Argument as I remember was this That which hath still been a rule to them that have erred caÌ„not be a certain rule to direct all in faith But the scripture interpreted by the privat spirit as every one pretends given from God hath led many into dangerous most
faith if it be as it ought that is if it be accomodated proportioned vnto the object end of our faith as it is necessary vnto salvation deth eyther require a particular motion of the Holy Ghost or an infused habit of faith as it appeareth out of the 7. chapter of the Aransicanum Conc. and out of the Trident Sess 6. c. 5. et canone Where it is affirmed that without Gods preventing grace and the illuminatioÌ„ of the holy Ghost no man can beleeve things reveled as he ought that is that Gods justifying grace be given him 141. Fourthly I affirme that this certaine and inevident iudgment of the truth of our faith into these humain reasoÌ„s and motives as into the moving applying and impulsive cause but not as into the formal motive of beleeving And the selfe same judgment is resolved into the supernatural light as into the true efficieÌ„t cause of that certitude and proportioÌ„ which it hath with his adequate object and end both being supernatural 142 If I be demaunded therefore whie I beleeve â— persoÌ„s and one God or any other thing I answer if you aske of me the formal reason whie I assent I answer I beleeve because God hath revealed it If I be thenasâ—ed how I know God hath revealed it I answer I doe not evidently know this though certainly I know it for the same revelation and infalible authoritie which the church of God as an intrinsecal condition or application applies to me to be beleeved 143. But if I be further questioned since the revelation of God and the proposing are both obscure and inevident how cames it theÌ„ that I certainly and evidently doe beleeve 144. I answer then I returne vnto the motives of evident credibilitie that maie induce any prudent man to beleeve that saith and that church warranted by so many motives 145. Neither is here coÌ„mitted any vitious circle between the authoritie of God the church as I have before convinced you in your grounds to commit For first the authoritie of God revealing in vertue of which the infailibilitie of the proposition is beleeved and the selfe same infallible proposition in vertue of which we beleeve that God â—â—ies and reveales hath two diverse objects For the object of the infailible proposition is that God reveales And the object that God reveales or of the revelation of God is the veritie beleeves 146. â— I saie in that when out of the authoritie of God revealing is given the formal reason of our beleeving the motive is given by the formal cause But when out of the infallible proposing of the church a reason to given whie we beleeve the divine revelation If it be vnderstood aright it is not to be given by a formal cause or motive but by an intrinsecall and requisite application of the motives whie we beleeve which is doone by the proposing of it by the church so that ther is no circle ab eodem in idem secundum idem which Aristotle only coÌ„demns 1. Post. text 5. as I have shewed before 147. Yet to goe one degree further in shewing how we are free in another regard from this mere circular and fruictless resolution of theirs I presuppose that then is coÌ„mitted a circle when the selfe same is proved by the selfe same to him that graunteth neither or doth aequallie deny both or doubteth of both For proofe of which we learne out of Aristotle that we ought to proceed from that which to knowen to that which is not knowen or at least from that which is graunted to that which is not graunted for so we shall proceed from that which is knowen after a manner to that which is not knowen 148. Whence I inferr that he should coÌ„mit this circuler discourse that to an Ethnick that equally should denie both scripture and the infallibilitie of the church should prove that the scripture were of divine authoritie in that the church teacheth vs it and the church of infallible authoritie in that the scripture teacheth vs it But to a protestant that admits of most of the scripture it is no circle to prove the infallibilitie of the church which he denies from the scripture which he admits of but first you do not give a resolutioÌ„ of your faith as I doe that is powerful against Ethnick or heretick 2. though wee admit of scripture yet wee cannot be vrged therevnto by you that receiving from the church the scripture will not beleeve all that she proposeth alike to be beleeved 149. The foresaid manner of proof is vsuall both in the scriptured and in ancient Fathers The Pharisees did admit of Moses and denie Christ. Therfore our Saviour convinced them with these words Joh. 5. 46. If you did beleeve Moses you would beleeve me for he gave testimonie of me Againe contrariwise the Manicheies did admit of Christ and the gospel did deny Moses and the Prophets therfore S. Aug. contra FaustuÌ„ ManichaeuÌ„ in his book lib. 1. de moribus Ecclesiae Catholicaec 1. et seq did convince the Manichees The like manner of proceeding wee take to instruct a Catholick that should denie any parcel of scripture wee convince him by the judgment of the church to whom he submits himselfe And Hereticks that denie tradition the church and the Popes authorâ—tie wee convince them out of scripture out of the writings vniform consent of the holy Fathers thowsands of whom M. â— A. saies he preferres for wisdom truth and holiness before himself whose vniversall consent of them living in all times being most expert in tongues neare our Saviours times many of them being the Apostles schollers not partiall to eyther of our causes writing so long before many delivering matters of facts that doth prove or coÌ„firme many poiâ—â—â— of our doctrine I cannot see how you can denie them especially since you saie you admit so farr of them as they agree with scripture For S. Hierom translated it S. Ambrose S. Aug. S. Greg. S. Barnard interpreted it and they all cite many places of scripture to prove fundamentall points of doctrine of our religion But I shewed how the holie Fathers agreed with scripture to which you are silent 150. But that you doe not proceed after the self same manner is plaine For though you abound with wrested places of scripture which we admit of all in their true sence Yet you denie the interpretation of the Fathers interpreting the scripture that by common consent and your owne graunt should better vnderstand them then you And wee doe not admit of scriptures as a sufficient proofe by themselves but togither with the interpretation of the holy Fathers of whom by your own words you should admit of since you prefer their wisdome truth and holynes before your selfe 151. Wherfore then M. H. A. would you have me beleeve you alleaging onely scripture for your self iâ— sense depraved before the holy Fathers that cite scriptures both for them and
vs and whose judgment you saie you preferr before your selfe For first you intangle your selfe in an endless circle For you prove the privat spirit to be true in that the written word saies as interpreted by you that it is true and you prove the writteÌ„ word to bee true by the private spirit both which wee denie since we will have neither the writteÌ„ word alone or privat spirit to be the rule of our faith And you doe not only coÌ„mit a circle but perswade against your owne perswasion since you would have me to beleeve you onely citing scriptures before thowsand Fathers citing scriptures also whose worth by so many titles you preferr before your selfe suerly suerly you have no guift in perswasion 152. And not onely thus vnreasonablie doe you proceed but as the Manichies to S. August you object many places of scripture whose infereÌ„ces still â—re Nolâ— Catholicis credere doe not beleeve the Catholicks I can then returne you this answer with St. Aug. noÌ„ rectè facies per EuaÌ„geliuÌ„ me cogere ad Manichaei fidem q. ipsi EvaÌ„gelio Catholicis praedicantibus credidi You doe not wel by scriptures cited from the gospel to vrge me to beleeve your Brownisme against the Catholick faith For this Gospel out of which you cite these wordes and wrested places I received froÌ„â—he Catholick church from whence you would diâ—â—wade me 153. The â— thing that I am to shew is that the Popes definiâ—tive sentence at least with a generall counsel is sufficient to determine all controversies and is a sufficient groundworke of faith This you saie I propound faintly in that I did alleage I did not of purpose dispute it though as you object it was the maine question 154. I answer most true it is according to my answer wherin I did voluntarily yeild to this to which by force of argument I was never vrged so it is the maine drift of the question But in regard of the satisfaction of you or your arguments it is not the maine question For when I saie there is something els required besides the writteÌ„ word to make it a compleat rule of faith I did not answer faintly when I graunted more then that to which I was vrged For your Argument required to know how the judgment of the church and in what sence might be infallible might have a manifold sence For if you take the definition of the church for the consent of all the fathers doctors of the church so it is infallible If you take it for a general CouÌ„cel coÌ„firmed by the Pope so it is also of infallible authoritie If you take it for the definition of the Pope with the councel of Cardinals defining ex cathedra so it is of infallible authoritie And since in all these sences the Catholick church is an indeficient rule to determine a matter of faith and to interpret the scriptures I did not therefore faintly answer when I insisted on the last 155 As for your rhethoricall flourish and forged resolution of my faith I have sufficiently excluded our opinion from that circle in which you stick fast Nervaeus wheÌ„ he saies the Pope is virtualy the whole church meanes nothing else but that he is the spiritual head to direct the whole church by the infallible assistance of the holy Ghost 156. As for my vellitation those few that I brought were sufficient to overthrow your groundles opinioÌ„ As for my reasons in the armadoe of mine as you terme theÌ„ that you saie wil never enter the feild It may be well they scorn to oppose one that lies at their fellowes mercie already 157. Now you come to examin the prerogatives of S. Peter Out of the whole series of which the circuÌ„stances therof not onely out-of each particular I drawe an infallible Argument but you in an swering them rather seeke to shun or avoid a blow then to give any 158. First you graunt that ever almost S. Peter is named first of the Apostles you except some 3. or 4. places but you cite none though otherwise most frequent in multiplicitie of cited places to no purpose Hence you graunt that primacie of order and not of authoritie maie be gathered You saie this gratis But since the holy Ghost both not repeat this prunacie to no purpose surely there his authoritie above his other brethreÌ„ is argued thence And since to be named still first through the whol scripture rather argues primacie of autority then of order Why should not wee rather iâ—ferâ— the vsual then the vnusual significatioÌ„ especiallie since in all records wee see the prioritie of the place is given to the preheminencie of the person 159. But let us examin one place the 10. of Mat 2. And the names of the 12. Apostles be thâ—se The first Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother and so Marci 3. Luc. 6. he is still named first Which cannot bee vnderstood of prioritie of your order you vnderstaÌ„ding therby prioritie of yeares or vocatioÌ„ Since S. Andrew that is named next excelled S. Peter in yeares was first called As S. Ambr. witnesseth on the 2. of the Cor. 12. and he inferreth then that although S. Andrew was his elder yet S. Peter was his superior This place made so much for this that Theodorus Beza although he coÌ„fessed all copies agreed herein yet he would have this word first to be â—oisted in see Beza in the annotations of the new testameÌ„t 556. As for that of the Galatians where S. Paul not numbring or reckoning the Apostles of set purpose as the 3. Euangelists doe meÌ„tioneth first S. James Bishop of Jerusalem whom first he met and who led him vnto the other Apostles as it appeareth Act 21. I. Calvin seing in his conscience the force of this Argument at which you wink grants that hence may be gathered that he was first of the 12. Apostles but not the head of the whole world 160. As for that which you object the 21. of the Apocalyps 19. where the foundation of the wall of the citie is described to be adorned with pretious stones And then you inferr in that in the Preists habit or ornament the Jasper which is as you say the stone of Benjamin by his place makes against you if I would plaie the part of a Cabbalist or naturalist But the scripture it self Exod. 28 v. 18 19. confutes you For there in the first place is said to be placed the stone Sardius Topazius and Smaragdus In the second the Carbunâ—â—â— the Saphyrus and the Jaspis So that we see the Jaspis or the stone Benjamin by your doctrine should not have the first place 161. Secondly against my congruitie alleaged for S. Peters primacie Math. 14. 29. where S. Peter walkes vpon the water Out of which place S. Chrysostom homil 57. and S. Bernard lib. 2. de consider ad EugeniuÌ„ doth inferr S. Peters prerogative above the other Apostles you saie rather argues his
confutation of your wordes when I reasoned thus If S. Peter could not have prerogative of place in that he represented the church no more could the sonnes of Abraham bee two sonnes in that they represented two nations Here you inferr for me but they were two soÌ„ns etc. go S. Peter was S. Peter still etc. I thancke you for your paines but you doe not marke that I doe of purpose omitt to inferr the sequele which everie one may see to follow but you have forgot to have compassioÌ„ of pour selfe that vnarmed admitts of the Argument in that you satisfie me nothing therein but here like some railing minister out of his text beginnes to talke of Antichrist whose forerunner himselfe is 182. To that where you saie all the Apostles were equall though there was order as first second and third Apoc. 21. 19 Whence is that order fetched and derived but since not in the first ordering or age as I have proved therefore in the free election of Christ Jesus that chose and made worthie S. Peter the first That of S. John 21. 21. Ephes. 2. 20 proves that they were all equall in the execution of the power of order which was equal to al not in powr of jurisdictioÌ„ that they were equall as they were Apostles but not as they were â—ys And if al the Apostles had the like power of jurisdictioÌ„ with S Peter yet it dooth not follow that all Byshopps should have like jurisdiction with the Pope For Byshopps are sayd to succeede the Apostles as Preists are said to succeede the 72. disciples who did not succeed properly as appeareth out of Anacletus epist et ex Beda in c. 10. Luc. And the reasoÌ„ is given in that the 72. were not Preists neither did they erercise any jurisdictioÌ„ which appeareth in that Philip James the 5. other Deacons were ordred Aâ—t 6 by the Apostles that they were of the 72. appeareth out of EpiphaÌ„ heresi 20. 184. That admonition Rom. â— 11. 20. 22. and that of the Apoc. 8. 10. is to bee vnderstood that if God should forsake her shee should perish that is in sensu diviâ—o 〈◊〉 in sensu composito as the Sea of Rome is guided by the holy Ghost and is there fired is â—he cannâ—â— finally fall yet it is a farr different question of the infallible decree of the Pope of the infallible residence of the Pope at Rome though both bee truthes in a diverse degree and both firme howsoever â—â—pugned 185. Wee doe not hold that the Pope is necessarily indued with Gods holy grace For in matter of fact wee hold that he may synne as well as any other but wee hold a necessary assistance of the holy Ghost as he defines ex cathedra as the head of the church 186. Here you cite two places out of S. Leo. that writ in the yeare of sur Lord 454. accusing him that he said too much for the Sea Apostollick in saying that he the head infuseth grace to the whole church And that God takes vp S. Peter into the fellowship of the individuall vnitie he would have him named that which himselfe was et sermone 3. and what he gives Princes he gives by S. Peter Where here first you see our religion is no vpstart religion that so many years agoe was maintained by so holie a Father and whom Theodoretus in his epistle so much commendes 2. wee seâ— this holie Pope Leo to doe no otherwise but that which S. Peter did in his second epistle 1. c. v. 4. where he saies that by the pretious promises yee may be made partakers of the divine nature so by the assistaÌ„ce of the holie Ghost S. Peter is by participatioÌ„ said to bee so directed by the â— Trinitie that his definitioÌ„s shall be the definitioÌ„s of the holy Ghost according to that He that heareth you heareth me And not vnlike is that of S Paul I will fulfill that which is wanting of passions of Christ. And by the participation of Gods grace wee are said to bee heires of God coheires of Christ Rom. 8. 187. And for this participation â— Greg. the 7. saies incline thie â—ares oh S. Peter prince of the Apostles Not meaning therby to aske any thing of our B. Lady or of S. Peter but onely that they would bee intercessors for vs. And since you conclude with this scoffing Epiphonema Thus roares the Lion of Rome contemning so the holie Father of the church I will end this point thus with you Thus in a lower keie braies our A. of Amsterdame against the victorious Lyon of Juda and against B. Leo his vicegerent on earth 187. But now your Artesmaster hath taught you a further â—etch For having these words of s. Leo he thinks he may prevail to deceiv the ignorant reader if to a point of truth he makes an addition of vntruth and so with a colour he goeth further on and affirmes that the Canonists calles him our Lord God the Pope cum inter glossa extravag Ioh. 22. Here the first vntruth is that the Canonists saie as though it were a generall rule or suppositum or an ordinarie style of the Canon lawe when as yet there was never found any adversarie of ours so bold faced that durst taxe any author but one and that but in one place 188. 2. It is but Dominum nostrum Papaâ— our Lord the Pope in many auntient copies in which God is wanting which soundes no otherwise then this our Lord the King that it is an intrudeâ— corruption of the text maie manifestly appeare by the manuscript of Zuiâ—…s the author of that gâ—eâ—â—e yet extant in the Paâ—iâ—â—â— library and maie bee seene there 189. 3. Admitting it were so in the ramâ—on lawe and in the Canonists which is false yet it would not follow in this style though in sound to 〈◊〉 insolent that wee should make him or account hiâ— our Lord God For the scripture dooth often honor men with the title of God to signifie therby onely the participation of his grace or authoritie so Psa. 8â— 6. I said you are Gods and children of the highest al where those to whom the word is reveled be called Gods as Christ himselfe doth declare Joh. 10 35. Exod. 21. 6. Judges also are called Gods The cause of both shall bee brought before the Gods Exo. 2. â— and â— thou shallt not detract from the Gods Moyses Exo. 7. â— who is called the God of Pharao 190. As for that of deposition you seeme to bee ignorant of our opinion For wee doe not hold that the Pope hath at his free libertie this power to depose but when all other meanes have been vsed and for the vniversall good of the church and when there is a hopefull success And this doctrine that the Pope hath indirect authoritie over Princes as s. Greg. Nazianz. teacheth the foule maie chasten the bodie when it is rebellious to her end so maie the spirituall power vse the
of the kingdome of heaven c. That S. Peter in the house of God is a stone to found a pillar to sustaine and a â—â—i to governe and dispose 195. And that the authoritie given S. Peter must be derived vnto S. Peters surressors lawfully elected and governing at Rome I could prove by the expresse authorities of all these Fathers cited but let reason it selfe suffice for since our Saviour did give the power of â—reaching administring of sacraments for the good of others to the â—ude of the world So Christ Jesus in instituting S. Peter the head would have that preheminence derived to his lawful successors Besides it was impossible that Peter should governe all vnto the end of the world since the church was to continew so long after go that authoritie was given to him and to his successors 196. Here you dare me to bring in the arrowâ—s of the fathers halberts of the Councells bullâ—tts of schoolmen and canons of â—â—â—onists in particular you saie you will answer them Thrasonlike spoke But I know for your refuge with Theasoe you will take vp your scand after the manipulum of disâ—washers expositions of these tymes for your safety but all in vaine For no doubt so many weapons will beat into Mammoks one already disagreeing from him selfe and whose cheife points and arguments arâ— of themselves like 〈…〉 vnsocketed 197. To these places of S. Ioh. 20 21. S. Math. 28. 19. I answer the holy Fathers have expounded in what sente these places are to bee vnderstood except Mr. H. A. wili eate his word I must needes preferr their vniforme conseÌ„t of so many worthie men before him the like I answer to that of the Act 2. 17. 18. 1 Cor. 1. 17. 198. I answer to your seeming retorted reason taken out of the 1 Petri 5. 4 graunting that S. Peter must feede his sheep onely with the word of Christ Jesus the cheife but here I saie the word of God is eyther written or vnwritten what have you then inferred 199. But now to speake something of that false malitious and odious blasphemie you have sprinkled through your treatise All which applications if tediousness and respect of civilitie did not hinder me I could naile those markes and notes of the forcrunker of Antichrist to your forehead 200 But it shall suffice to showe in a word or two that the Pope is not Antichrist 201. First then if the Pope should bee Antichrist it should follow for so many hundred yeares that hell gates have prevailed against the church of God more then against the Synagogne of the Jewes contrary to the promised assistaunce of the holy Ghost And that most glorious Martyrs learned Doctors of the church as S. Cyprian S. Ambrose S. Hier S. Aug S. Leo and all our forefathers should broile eternally in hell fire in offring vp homage to the beast 202. 2. That the Pope is not Antichrist is proved in that he shall bee one particular man I came in my name and yee did not receive me but another comes in his name and yee will receive him where Christ Jesus opposeth person to person place to place kingdome to kingdome sect to sect but the Popes are many successively 2 Thes. 2. he is called the man of sinne the sonne of perdition 203. 3. Antichrist shall bee descended of the tribe of Dan Genes Fuit Dan coluber c. 49. v. 17. Hier. 8. EDan audivimus vocem acutissimam equorum c. 204. 4 Antichrist shall oppugne the mysceries of our Saviour Joh. 2. Who is a lyar but he that denies Jesus Christ. 2 Thes. 2. 2. He shall extoll himselfe above all that is said God 205. 5. Those 7. mountaignes in the Apoca. are playnly said to bee seven kingdomes None of which doe agree with the Pope Aâ—â— the ten hornes are ten Kings Cyrillus Alexand oratione 7. in Danielem 206. To answer every thing againe that you repeat would but make me more wearie and tyre the reader It is much that you graunt the Popes primacie to have beene froÌ„ the Councel of Nyce thereby to graunt Antichrisme to have reigned so long in Christendome For the Popes loving of preheminence As for that of Diotrephes that you objâ—ct is nothing to the purpose And 1 Petri 5. 3. Preheminence absolutly is not forbidden but one secular preheminence with example of lyfe and humilitie For Tit. 15. 16 It is said Haec doce exhortare et argue cum omni imperio 207. My generall reason you repeat thus The Ecclesiasticall Hierachie is no worse governed they any temporall regiment For it is compared to a kingdome governed by one King Mat. 25. to a familie wel governed Hebr 3 to a campe wel ordered Cant 6. But in all well ordered coÌ„mon weales there is ever required some visible head or judge besides the writteÌ„ lawe since there must bee a supreme to take notise of controversies when they arise etc. there must bee one to explicate the sence of the laweâ— to pronounce sentence etc. there must bee one to compell those to the due observation thereof 208. Now since in the church there ariseth like difficults in the lawes explication etc. Therefore Peters successor indued by the holie Ghost with gifts of grace in all difficults of moment is to be sought to for councell is to be heard with obedience when he counselleth is to bee obeyed when he procedes with his powrefull jurisdiction 209. Your answer is that this reason is faultie from the head to the foot Wherein you give the holie Ghost the lie that compare his church to the visible government and nothing so frequent in scriptures there is then by coÌ„parison of terrestrial things to be instructed in caelestiall But you must note that a similitude must not run on 4. feete or agree in all but in the primo analogato which you cannot infringe 2. You bring one falsehood to coÌ„firm another For though we saie the Pope is to explicate the lawe yet he is not above the lawe in your sence and all that you cite proves onely that the scriptures are the partiall explicators of themselves Ezech. 44. 24 Deut. 17. 18. 20. â— Cor. 2. 10. For as for outward order in difficulties you grant that Prâ—ists lipps must preserve wiâ—dome or knowledge 211. You sate I misse proportion in making many common weales and but one church I understand one vniversall church which you graunt one invisible I have proved one invisible your proofe is to small purpose For in London then wee might inferr there were as many churches as there hee parishes which would bee a fond or fruitless inference except you vnderstand materiall churches 212. The third thing that you sate I am to prove and the 7. and last that I am to prove here is that the indeficient rule of our faith is onely to be found in the Catholicke church not in privat menssences and illuminations or motions of an vnseen spirit which
is against S. Joh. the 17. 11. Vt sint vâ—um St. et nos 213. I prove this in that the Romaine church is the onely true and Catholicke church this you sate if you should admit of yet it proves nothing in that the voice of the bridegroome and not of the bride is that you say wee must beleeve Joh. 3. 29. 36. Ephes. 2. 24. 4. 5 16. As though that were false of Christ he that heared you heares me Luc. 10. 16. 18. Mat. 17. S. Joh. 14. 16. 26. Joh. 16. 19. 1 Tun. 3. 15 The church of the living God is said to bee the pillar and sir â—amâ—t of truth 214. I am gladd to heare you dente your selfe as in truth you are knowen to bee no Catholicke That you will not challenge your Mothers name showes your degenerating spirit For well might you bee a Catholicke member of a Catholike church but as others have been ashamed of that name so also you but the truth is your church is not Catholicke in that it hath neyther vniversallitie of time place or person 215. That the whole world is replenished with our doctrine you slight over with most impertinent places of scripture to inferr the Pope to bee Antichrist and you graunt that the synagogue of the Jewes in her flourishing â— visibilitie hath excelled Christs church which is contrarie to the predictions of the Prophets and Apostles 216. To the motives of evident credibilitie that maie induce any man to beleeve as the Romaine church teacheth I proposed many motives as her antiquitie vnitie vniversallitie visibilitie that her doctrine was confirmed by the doctors by the institution and institutors of most holie orders by the conversion of nations by the power of myracles infinit number of Martyrs All which notes and motives the ancient Doctors have taken out of scripture to distinguish the true church most of which you graunt we have Onely with your wrested places paralleld herevnto you seâ—k to coÌ„fute theÌ„ but so lamely that any maÌ„ may see your answers are suddaine snatches then true bitings or wounds according to the nature of a madd dogge that runne headlonge and immediately snatcheth at any thing that opposeth him 217. That which you bring else where is to small purpose or abundantly satisfied elsewhere 218. Now to conclude I prove by a common Argument in refuting your answer in calling our motives carnall that wee maie bringe to prove the Catholicke church the true church 219. If our faith bee so ancient as you confess and allowed so long of all sorts and conditions if it bee not from God it must bee grounded on carnall motives viz. the profitt of the spiritual or temporall But it smoothes neither And that it is not grounded on the inventioÌ„ of the clergie for there profitt or pleasure is plaine since they so strictly binde themselves to chastitie vowes fasting praying so longe everie daie and all these vnder mortall sinne with all which burdeÌ„s they would not have loaden themselves if onely pollicie had beene their loadstone Neither is it governed by the pollicie of temporall Princes For it cannot bee immagined howe â—o many Empeperors Kings Queenes Princes would have teddered themselves vnder mortal sinne as to confesse their sinns to fast to restore etc. go the religion warranted by all the foresaid notes and so against the haire of humane affection must needes bee true that hath 〈…〉 inviolable so long against so many assaultes of enimies and heresies For according to that before cited of Gamaliel if it bee not of God it will bee dissolved 220. Thus having proved and confirmed my doctrine and refuted your grounds and sacked the castel builded and raised by your owne phancie and having destroied the golden caife of your selfe liking conceipt to which you sacrifize I am to conclude admiring any one can bee so fonde as to follow you against the course of all tymes the recordes of Historie consent of Fathers etc. And I bewaile the fearfull resolution you shal make to Christ Jesus when he shal aske you whie you beleeve against the holie scriptures explicated and warranted by all the motives and onely because you perswade your selfe so 221 Whereas our resolution at the eternall tribunall shall bee full of comfort since wee beleeve Gods word allowed by all those notes and warrants â— by the interpretation of the holie Fathers Your plea shall not bee like the plea of that sonne that pretendes to bee heire of all saving of one pennie In that his father made his brother haeredem ex asse heire of one penie as he interpretts When as the grave tribunal judge learned Doctors lawes showes against him that to bee made haeredem ex asse is to bee possessed and invested in all and not to have one penie and no more 222. So you saie the sense of this or that parcell of scripture is as you conceive though against the letter as Hoc est corpus meum etc. and against all Doctors and expositors and records of tyme shâ—wing the practise of the church As that Clients cause shall bee full of feare his plea ridiculous the sentence sure to passe against him with a hisse and contempt of the whole bench So shall that irrevocable sentence of God passe against you in following your owne phancie against his word the holie Catholicke church the expounder thereof I praie God to averte his judgment and to wipe of the scailes of your eies that you maie see and imbrace the true church that with the blasphemous breath of your nostrilles you have persecuted From Justice hall in Newgate the 13. of September siple veteri 1613. 3 Esdrae 4. Magna est veritas et praevalet Great is truth and prevaileth Iohn Aynsworth Ad post script What I have said before or heare have delivered I have brought out of the scriptures and their interpretation and not against the scriptures as you object except you would have that onely to bee scriptures that in sense fittes the last of your owne phancie To conunence new disputes you know would be endless If you have nothing more to object against this maine truth begin what you will and I shal answer but onely be advertised here that I make a great impression of those wordes of S. John 2. x. 10. Si quis venit ad vos et hanc doctrinam non affert nolite recipere eum in domum nec Ave dixeritis Quie dixerit illi Ave communicat operibus ejus malignis ercuse me then if in salutation or freindly complement of grace mercie 〈◊〉 I doe not comply with you it proceeds not froÌ„ the hatred of your person whose conversion and salvation I desire but of your heresies and error but to answer your grounds and Argumâ—â—â—â— I shall ever be readie The answer to I. A. his third large writing To Mr Iohn Aynsworth prisoner in Iustice hall in Newgate grace mercie from God to find repentance unto salvation TWo things
Now to folow your waÌ„dringes What dooth Gal 1. 8. say against that I set down The word besides meaneth as you think contrary to and not more then they had receaved because he forbidds not any explication or true gloss c. I answer you weary your selfe and others to prove that which none denyeth Explications of Gods law by the mouth of his ministers are allowed of God Nehem. 8. 8. these are not additions such as God forbiddes Galat. 3. 15. Our question is of other or moe lawes or doctrines then God hath taught And vnto those which the Prophets had writteÌ„ and Paul with the other Apostles taught none might be added For he kept back nothing that was profitable but taught the whole counsel of God Act. 20. 20. 27. so then whatsoever men could add more or besides was not profitable neyther any of Gods counsel therefore it was contrary and so may be put among Popes traditions For their doctrines and traditions are as evidently contrary to Gods word as darknes is to light Such be your image worship contrary to Exo. 20. 4. your praying to creatures contrary to Mat 4. 10. Rom. 1. 25. service in a barbarous vnknowen tongue contrary to 1 Cor. 14. 11 16. 28. robbing the people of the chalice in the sacrament contrary to Mat. 26. 27. justification by mens works contrary to Rom. 3. 20. 22. 24. and 4. 2 3 c. and many other idolatrous observations as plainly contrary to Gods law ever vvere the abominations of the heathen Finally Chrysostome a Doctor whome you rely vpon sayth that Paul preferreth the scriptures before Angels from heaven Here then if you wil beleeve him is no place at al for vnwritteÌ„ traditions Whereas you bring Rom. 16. 17. to shew that para meaneth contrary no man denyeth it but that it signifieth no more then contrary in your sense you prove not In Rom. 1. 25. you may see parâ— ton ktisantâ— meaneth any thing â—â—sides the creator onely But our strife was not about para or Gal. â— You 〈◊〉 as the Prophets additions to Moses law were Gods so the churches definitions are Gods not mans I deny your 〈◊〉 the churches additionâ— which you call definitions are not Gods as the Prophets writings 〈◊〉 were added to Moses books you are not farr froÌ„ blasphemie in making such a comparison If that were true you might read and expound as authentick scriptures your churches additions and Popes traditions as Christ read Esaias the Prophet and expounded hiâ— in the synagogue Luk. 4. 1â— 21. The proofs you would bring are Luk. 10. 16. he that heareth you heareth me c. Mat. 18. 1â— 18. tel the church c. Deut. â—9 15. or 〈◊〉 they shall stand before the Lord before the Preists c. I answer these scriptures shewe not that they might add any thing to the word of God but they prove the coÌ„trary For they were sent to preach the Gospel Mark 16. 15. that was Gods word not any creatures Thes 2 2. 4. 13. So they were not additions not definitions of their own such as your church makes Also the Preists were bound to teach Gods lawes not their owne Ezek. 44. 24. And so the hearing of them that teach Gods word is the hearing of God himself in his ministers But the contrary to hear the churches traditions is not to hear God for they were many against God as you may see Mark â— 3. 4. 9. 10. c. For els behold what strange doctrine you wil bring in viz. that everie church yea every preist and minister may make additions to Gods law and the people must be bound so to receive them as Gods word Here to helpe your selfe you retire to your old skonce saying it is true of particular churches but so farr as their doctrine accordeth with the Somane catholick church A meer fiction of your own head what one title of Gods word doo you or can you bring for this stuft did Christin Luk. 10. 16. speak to the church of Rome more then to the Church of Corinch Ephesus or any other you make your Roman Church an idol by putting her in Gods place to give lawes you make her a monster whiles being a particular Church you proclaym her for the catholik that is vniversal Church And her doctrine if it accord not with Christs as it dooth not is with her to be abhorred and accursed Gal. 1. 8. By this which hath bene sayd let the prudent judge how soundly you haue proved that any other word or doctrine then Gods may be brought into the Church for a ground of our faith which was the first thing in controversie The 2. part that you are to prove as you say is that the rule of our faith is not onely the written word but jointly the unwritten word of God tradition and the authority of the Church councils fathers is the ultimate decider of all matters of controversie In this assertion you confasedly shuffle togither for your advantage the church councels fathers By the Church you mean your Romish Church which is none of Christs and therefore can judge no Christian controversie Councils and fathers are named but for a show For â—oâ— regard nothing that Councils or Fathers say vnless your Pope approve it On the contrary I hold that Gods written word is to be the rule of our faith and by it all churches Councils Fathers are to be tried whether they be of God or no. But let us heaâ— your proofe That which was say youâ— the total rule of our faith before the written word of God man be wel the partial rule of our faith after where the written word of God dooth not sufficiently cruâ—â—ss diverse mysteries of us to ve beleeved But tradition was a sufficient and total rule of our faith till Moyses time the first 〈◊〉 of the holy Ghost Therfore traditioÌ„ now together with the written word is a sufficient rule of our faith The firâ— prop. you say 〈◊〉 proved the second you â—aâ— is graunted by me I answer If the writings of God were as dark and deceitfull as is this your writing it were woe with vs all In the first proposition you say it may well be the partiall rule of our faith in the conclusion you say it to so If I should say It may wâ—ll be your argument is deceytfull and conclude therefore it is deceâ—tfull would you graunt the conclusion yet is it truer then yours For that which was a rule before may be a rule still if it please God so to continue it this you need not labour to prove But that which was a râ—â—â— before neyther may nor can be a rule still when God hath taken it away put another in the sted And this is the very truth if you would receive it For before Gods law was written it was spoken and by speech from the mouth of holy persons it was to be learned But now it is written oâ—
faithful vvay of reasoning If as your maÌ„ner is you vvould have me to vnderstand it in the first I vvill so Then it is thus That which is not by it self known for Gods word cannot be tâ—e rule of faith This now I deny and your proof is vvanting The proof vvhich you make for it as you had set it down I admitt of concerâ—ing the vvord of God onely vvhere you extend Gods vvord to the definitions of the church c. I run not so farr vvith you But require you to prove your churches councils fathers definitions to be Gods vvord vvhich you doo not Your 2. proposition I deny for the scriptures by themselves vvithout your traditions may as easily be known for Gods vvord as the Sun in the firmament may be known to give light vvithout a candle This I vvill manifest hereafter Yoâ— seek to prove your aâ—â—ertion by authority of men That I refuse as insufficient by authority of Christ vvho theweth their religion to be vayn vvhich teach for doctrines the precepts of men Mat. 15. 9. Secondly you allege a reason Since we doo not see or heare God in his known Prophets to write or speak the word c. there must you say be one certayn rule or depositum fidei As 1 Tim. 6. 20. 2. Tim. 1. 13. 14. have thou a form of sound of words etc. whence you gather that Christians must keep acertain platforme of words delivered to them over and above Pauls epistles amongst which you name for one Transsubstantiation I answer first God his vvisdome power majesty truth c. are to be seen as evidently in the vvritings of the Prophets and Apostles as his eternall power and Godhead are to be seen in the creatures of the vvorld Rom. 1. Ps. 19. although Atheists cannot see these in the one nor Papists in the other Secondly as men doo not hear God vocally in his Prophets so if they did hear him in them or in Christ his sonn yet could they not beleeve vnless Gods spirit illuminated their harts Iohn 12. 37. 39. So your reason is against Christ himselfe as vvel as against the â—…pture Thirdly the church whereto you vvould send us when 1. â—ayth this is Gods vvord how shall men know it so to be any more then they knew the vvords that Christ spake to be Gods unless you lift vp your church above Christ. Fourthly vvhat church mean you Greek or Latine or AEthiopian and how shall men know Christs Church from Antichrists And if the Latin church tel us the fables of Tobit and Iudith are Gods canonicall scripture and the Greek church say they are nor but apocryphal vvhich of these shall vve beleeve Thus you vvould draw us into a vvilderness vvherein vve may loose all stay of faith and fall eyther into despayr or atheisme To those vvords of Paul I have answered before and to let pass your mistaking as if he did inioyn a sound of words as you vvrite further I vvould have you manifest if you can vvho are Timothees successors and vvith vvhom he left Pauls depositum as you call it And how a man may know your kenophonie and monstrous vvord of TraÌ„substantiatioÌ„ to be one of Pauls holsom vvords rather then the Lutherans Consubstantiation Your contending against the distinction vvhich I gave of beleeving things necessary to salvation and other things not necessary as whither Peter were ever at Rome or no and the like I leave to the judicious reader seing you cannot or vvill not vnderstand and rest in the truth Your marginall argument that The written word is not proved by an other written word therefore by tradition I reject as false and inconsequent so proved in my former vvriting You in reciting the scriptures vvhich I brought doo maym the texts to ease your shoulders In Iohn 20. 30 31. you leave out these words and that in beleeving you might have life through his name So in 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. you neyther mention nor answer this that by the scriptures the man of God may be perfect and perfectly fitted vnto every good work Whereby â— proved that faith vnto life and every good vvork may be learned out of the scripture as I inferred When you cannot answer you call me the perverter of the holy Ghost Let the prudent judge Vnto your answers made to my evident demonstrations by the book of God that the scriptures and spirit of God are sufficient to prove and approve themselves to every conscience I need not make any replye but leave it vnto judgment But to help you if it may be I vvill breefly note your oversights 1. You allege my words sundrie times as if I had sayd Gods spirit is in all people vvhich I never spake nor thought but proved the contrary by Ioh. 14. 17. I sayd Gods spirit is in all his people vvhich if you doubt of see Rom 8. 9. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 27. You barely say and prove not that in actu 2. the scriptures need testimony of others besides God and his spirit and themselves meaning your Church and Pope you seem to say the like of Christ himself as others of your side hâ—ve playnly spoken By which blasphemie God must be beholding to men Christ to the Pope that by their witness men may beleeve in Christ and his vvord The contrary is evident by Mat. 16. 17. flesh blood sayth Christ hath not reveled it vnto thee but my father vvhich is in heaven See also Gal. 1. 16. 17. and 2. 6. 9. 3. You are often vp agayn vvith your bastard phrase of the private spirit vvhereas al Gods children have the publick or catholick spirit if you vvill so call it as I playnly proved in my former vvriting you have nothing to say against it but that the spirit worketh otherwise in the head then in the foot vvhich is a manifest tergiversation vvhereof in due place 4. You cary your self in this passage about the spirit of God as a sish out of the element as having no relish or feeling of this heavenly grace whereat I much marvel not though I am sory for it Enter into your self and see by vvhat spirit you doo discern the Pope to be Christs vicar as you suppose and his traditions to be Christs oracles Will you not say it is by the spirit of God Now vve are assured that Christ is more able to furnish us vvith the spirit of God then the Pope is to furnish you That you perceive not Gods spirit to be in us but reproch us it is not strange for the vvorld as Christ sayth seeth him not neyther knoweth him Your fathers also could not perceive Gods spirit to be in Christ himself but sayd he had an vnclean spirit and we his servants are not better then our Lord. 5. So for the majesty of the scriptures shining as the sun in his strength by their majesty vvisdom harmony c. proving approving themselves one an
other to the faithfull conscience you turne vvind because we caÌ„not perswade the Arians c. by conference of scriptures to beleeve aright It is not what vve can perswade others but our selves For there are many Arians and other heretikâ— vvhich you vvith your fathers councils Popes are not able to convert Yet you think your Popes decrees are Gods vvord and vve know that the holy scriptures are so indeed And the more to convince you look to your Mr. as you called him Cardinall Bellarmine and see a sound argument of his to prove the knowledge and assurance of the scriptures to be of God by the testimony of the scripture it selfe Bellar. de verb. dei I. 1. c. 2. argument 4. 6. You ask a question thinking to intangle me what the seal of the spirit is and you suppose divers answers Because you are so partial a judge of my spirit I pray aske your Pope what the seale of his spirit is and how he discerns scripture whither he build without ground as you say I doo Look what he can wel answer for himself to satisfy your conscience that think to be answered by me In the mean while mind that the seal of the spirit is for my own assurance and comfort which concerneth an other man nothing 2 Cor. 1. 22. 1 Cor. 2. 11. 7. You having my answer already doo refuse it saying it is most false that the scriptures are distinguished from other books by themselves as light from darknes For then say you every one that had but naturall perfection of the organ and free proposing of the object should distinguish this light This say I is most true for the law of God is a light Prov. 6. 23. which when it is by him free proposed and the organ that is the mind of man wich now is blinded recovereth naturall perfection that is to say is illuminated or renued in knowledge after the image of him that created it every such man with his perfect organ seeth the word of God to be in the scriptures as every man that hath a perfect naturall ey seeth the light of the sun and can assure himself hereof though he goe not to Rome to ask the Pope whither the sun gives light or no. But you are as a man without sense that though the sun shine at noon day yet if the Pope say it is midnight you will beleeve him so on the contrary For you profess to beleeve each part of scripture to be Gods holy word derived from the fulnes of truth Now this is because the Pope tells you so and he tells you also that the books of Tobit Iudith Maccabees c. are scripture canonicall although in them there be apparant lyes as you may see Tobit 12. 15. compared with Tob. 15. 18. Iudith 9. 2. compared with Gen. 49 5. 6. 1 Mac. 6 16. compared with 2. Mac. 1 16. 2 Mac. 1. 19. coÌ„pared with 2 King 25. 1. c. so 2. Mac. 1. 20. 21. 22. 31. many the like Now though the Apostle sayth no lye is of the truth 1 Ioh. 2. 21. yet you beleeve these lyes are derived from the fulnes of truth because the Pope will have it so to be Thus the blind lead the blind into the ditch So you doo not by your private spirit as you say distinguish heritiks from true beleevers but by the definitions and declarations of the church that is I trow of the Pope I shewed you a better way by the Apostle 1 Ioh. 4. 1. 4. but you love darknes better then light And by your grounds if you had lived in Christs dayes on earth you would have distinguished Christ as an heretick from true beleeving Iewes by the definitions of that church and Preisthood Vnto Iewes you confess you must shew other grounds then your Popes authority But if they retort vpon you your private spirit as you doo to me eyther your mouth is stopped or your conscience in pleading against me as you doo is corrupted Yea when you are driven about the high Preists that condemned Christ to say their ignorance was most vincible by their own law which was the scriptures your own mouth giveth sentence against you For by the same law say I the ignorance of your Romish Preisthood is most vincible also Your owne traditions are of no more force against us then the Iewes were against Christ. You charge me with racking many wrested places of scripture to prove the church of God invisible and you oppose many scriptures against it I answer eyther your care was litle or your conscience was large to write so vntruely The question was whither the church erred or no that I proved by many examples and testimonies of scripture as is to be seen in my former writing when your mouth is stopped her in you pass by all that I alleged and turne to another matter wherin you seem to say somewhat and answer vnto scriptures which I mentioned not I mean to hold to the point and not to follow your wandrings which are in the moveable pathes of that strange womaÌ„ Prâ— 5. 6 That which you answer to my demonstration of the Labâ—riâ—th of your religion leading to the Pope c. I shall not bestow labour to reply upon but leave it to judgment so for your answers to the scriptures by me alleged for I will not strive to have the last word Whither I answered nothing as you say to your reason let the reader see Your 2. Argument from the hardnes of the scriptures you agayn repete and dilate Seing you make no other proofe then was before I vvil not follow you to repete my answers but referr to my former writings To prov 8. 8. 9. you reply it is to be vnderstood eyther of generall doctrine or of precepts of manners and good life I answer you ought not so to restrayn it For wisdom there sayth al her words are righteous all are playn will you say nay generall doctrines are playn but not particular precepts of manners but not of faith Belike then the foolish woman that whore of Babylon Apo. 17. must explayn matters of faith and particular doctrines Well I shall content me with Wisdoms playn words and vvhat she teacheth not I regard not to learne if you vvill needs goe to the banket of stollen vvaters and hid bread know that the dead are there if you vvill take vvarning Where I shewed how your Popes determinations make Gods law more hard to simple men instancing the second commandement corrupted by your glosses and distinctions You take vpon you to defend your image-worship by the brazen Serpent and Cherubims And might not Ieroboam so have defended his golden calves Gods law sayth Thou shalt not make to thy self any similitudes thou shalt not bow down to them nor vvorship them you make many similitudes of God Christ
Angels men vvomen cross c. and yee bow down before them vvhereas the similitudes vvhich God commanded vvere not to be vvorshiped as you doo the cross the brazen Serpent vvhich you allege shewes it Besides vvill your Pope take vpon him Gods place and power and make vvhat images he thinks good because God made such as pleased him Why then if he had lived in Ieroboams dayes he might have made a Temple at Bethel because God made one in Ierusalem and set vp Preists altars sacrifices of his own head because God had appointed such in Iudah And now let your Pope make new Churches new Sacraments new Ministeries yea an other Testament because Christ did so But for your idolatries they perteyn to an other place then this I leave it to the judgment of every godly hart vvhither your Popish glosses decrees distinctions c. be not more dark and intricate then the holy scriptures vvhich are a lamp to our feet and a light to our pathes And as for your Councils and Fathers to vvhom so often you flee for help vvhen holy scriptures fayl you they are so cross and intricate in themselves and one to another that the Pope vvith all his guard could never yet neyther ever vvilbe able to reconcile them Your Mr. Cardinall Bellarmine useth them as men doo Counters that sometime stand for pounds sometime for halfe pence So he sometime alloweth the Doctors sometime dismisseth them as erring from the truth Yet you to brave your cause muster their names vvhose vertues you doo not imitate You much blame me as for wilfull error in citing Card. Bellarmines vvritings as the determinations of the Pope Beare vvith me I knew not that your Cardinal had a private spirit differing from your Pope and bear part of the blame vvith me your selfe that referred me in your former vvriting to answer Bellarmine your master Vnto my proof frō 1 Cor. 4. 1. that the other Apostles vvere dispensers of Gods mysteries as vvell as Peter so other Bishops now as well as the Bishop of Rome you answer they be all alike in power of order but not of jurisdiction This your distinction I deny and in my former vvritings disproved it and you bring not neyther can bring any vvord of God to confirme it and therefore as your manner in such exigents is you flee to humane authority Now I graunt that your Popes throne is from men or from the Dragon if you will But Gods vvord sayth A man can receive nothing unless it be given him from heaven John 3. 27. From this you pass to Act. 15. afterwards you goe back again to other things that in order vvere before I answered twise your reasons from that scripture shewing how you constreyn it beyond all reason yet the 3. time you press it thus From v. 6. the Apostles and Ancients assibled you note it against us that vvould you say have all men to give their voice and be present in council I answer in v. 4. it is shewed they were received of the Church and of the Apostles and ancients In v. 12. it is sayd all the multitude kept silence In v. 22. it is sayd it seemed good to the Apostles ancients with the whole church to send c. In v. 23. the letters vvere thus vvritten The Apostles ancients and the brethren unto the brethrē c. v. 25. It seemed good to us vvhē vve vvere come togither vvith one accord c. All vvhich doo manifest that the people vvere present and not the Apostles and ancients onely as you from an usual figurative speech in v. 6. mistaken vvould collect From v. 7. you gather that vvhen there vvas made a great disputation Peter rising up and speaking by his authority composed that great dispuration that is setled the height of their difference which argues superiority And eftsoones you press this word great disputation for Peters rising vp vvas before proved to be but a staff of reed for the Pope I answer you dally vvith the holy scriptures unsufferably The argument if it wil help you should be this Whosoever in a Council when there is great disputation riseth up speaketh he is head of that council yea and of the vniversal church But Peter in a council vvhen there vvas great disputation rose up and spake therefore he vvas head I deny your first proposition as strayned against scripture and light of reason And I vvould pray you in sooth to answer vvhither in the many contentious Councils vvhich have been since the Apostles dayes there have not been sundry men that rose up and spake when there was great disputation and vvhither they vvere all heads of the church therefore That vvhich you add of Peters composing the great disputation by his authoritie is not of the text but a gloss of your private spirit Your extenuating of the Apostle Iames his authority vvho spake last and gave judgment or sentence v. 19. sheweth hovv partiall you are for S. Peter But I vvill cease from answering vvords of vvind Let him that readeth that scripture judge vvhither of the two had the chiefest place Your exception that it is not sayd Peter spoke those words risen but when he was rising as if you vvould put a cushion vnder him to sit down agayn is altogither vnworthy to be answered For besides that the very same speech is used of Gamaliel as I told you in Act. 5 34. you might even as vvel say that Peter vvent not to Ioppa risen but when he was rising Act. 9. 39. and that Peter vvas sent to goe to Cornelius and Paul to goe to Damascus not vvhen they vvere risen but vvhen they vvere rising seing there is one and the same vvord and phrase used in all these and sundry other like places But such traditionall expositions of holy scripture is your church fayn to use for vvant of better to bolster vp her preeminence Gamaliel you say spake rather as a freind then as a judge as a Cardinall in the Popes conclavi rather then as a Pope Be it so yet he rose up I trow vvhen he spake so then rising up to speak is no proof of superiority and you might have spared this strife about your frivolous reason Yet from Act. 13. 16. you vvould gather by Pauls rising up in the Synagogue that he vvas cheif preacher Well let your argument from rising to speak be layd up in the Popes conclavi for to prove his preeminence if need be to speak in a church as Paul did in that synagogue You bethink you and turn back to your other pervered place of 2. Pet. 1. 20. cited as you pretend by you thus No prophesy is made by private interpretation vvhich you say I call and doo not prove a bastard phrase I answer you tvvise cited it private spirit interpretation and had vvritten it so this third time but blotted out the
vvord spirit Your own hand writing therefore convinceth you of vntruth not me of bad conscience as you charge me I did and doo cal it a bastard phrase as being of your own or of the Popes begetting for th'Apostle Peter neyther spake nor meant so You add to his vvords and therfore are reproved of God Prov. 30. 6. you swary from your authentik Latin translation and therefore are reproved by your own canon law I proved by the scriptures Ephe. 4. 4. Rom. 12. 4. c. 1 Cor. 12. 4. 8. 9. c. that there is but one spirit which al Gods people have though in divers mesures as mans body hath but one soul or spirit to quicken it This you not being able to deny doo vvind away and except though it be the same fowl yet it worketh otherwise in the head then in the foot etc I answer it is very true You inferr then that so it belongs to the head of the church and not to every craftsman to interpret scriptures Why are ther no members in a mans body between the head and the heels that you make such a leap Is there no mean between the head and every craftsman What place then is there for your Cardinals Bishops Preists Doctors Iesuits c. they are not the head of the church yet you think them higher then the feet But if this your answer be good then though Peter were head as you erroneously think I hope the spirit wrought otherwise in him then it did in that divil incarnate Pope Iohn the 22. and in other your monstrous vvicked Popes as your own friends doo vvitnes against them Then had those beasts a private spirit vvorse then any an honest craftsman then it belonged not to them to interpret scriptures No nor to your Preists and Iesuits unless you vvill make them heads A little after touching Pope Stephen vvho repeled the decrees of his predecessor Pope Formosus you vvould have him to doo this not as the head of the church but out of the violencie of his private spirit I like vvell of your answer and think the very same of all the Popes traditions and therefore the privat spirit vvhich so oft you entwite me vvith I return into your own hands to be kept as the Popes Depositum You pretend that for all the vvickednes of some Popes God hath stil preserved the unity of faith in your church And that never any Pope by his definitive sentence did define heresie I answer if the Pope may be judge as vvith you he is I vvarrant you he vvill never condemn himself of heresie But if Gods word be judge many heresies are easy to be found in your late council of Trent and in many Popes decrees Which vvill come to be scanned in particular doctrines after these generall grounds are ended Your digression to another vvriter I omitt you may seek answer if you please of himself And your author â—o vvhom you send me for satisfaction about your Popes power of dispensations I shall read vvhen I have leysure therto Your 3. Argument you set down now upon your memorie otherweise then ever before thus That which hath still been a rule to theÌ„ that have erred cannot be a certayn rule to direct all in faith But the scripture interpreted by the private spirit as every one pretends given from God hath led many into dangerous and horrible errors go the scriptures though directed by the private spirits interpretation cannot be a rule of faith I answer your conclusion I grant though your argument be naught for the private spirit wee found whileare to be the violent spirit of the Pope or his like And scripture directed or rather perverted by such a spirit cannot in deed be a rule of faith Against your 2. Proposition I except it implieth a fallacie putting that for the cause which is not the cause The scriptures never led any into errour but vnlearned and unstable persons pervert all scriptures as the Apostle sayth unto their own destructioÌ„ the cause hereof is not the scriptures but mens corruption The Pharisees perverted the doctrines spoken by our Saviour Christ himselfe yet I hope you will not deny but his heavenly words was a certayn rule to direct all in faith So the proof of your minor faileth you Against your first proposition which you say is most certayn I except as not playn and so deceitfull That which is a rule to them that err understanding of it own nature and properly cannot be a certayn rule to direct all in faith But now to assume that the scripture is such were blasphemie Agayn That which is a rule to them that err to weet a rule by accident through their ignorance or malice abusing it cannot be a certayn rule to direct al Gods people in faith now I deny the proposition and leave you to give proof of these things in your next And whither before or now you have drie-beaten mee as you boast let the lookers on give verdict Your 4. argument you omit through oversight I suppose onely whâ—r I shewed by 1. Cor. 11. 19. Act. 15. c. that contentions were in the Apostles times and composed by the scriptures not by setting up a supremejudge or Pope Yow answer barely they prove rather theâ— must be one visible supreme judge to decide controversies Wee are thâ—n at a point Let him that readeth the scriptures and reasons which I there alleged judge whither of the two they doo rather prove Your 5. which yow call your 4. argument is that we beleeve many things which are not reveled in holy scripture c. I told yow and tell yow agayne that I doo not howsoever yow may beleeve any thing needful for my salvation which is not reveled in the Holy scriptures neyther wil I use other weapons against Arians Anabaptists or any heretiks that acknowledge the scriptures to be of God This therfore is no argument to convince me at all You insult for that I will not shewe my particular proofs against those heresies I told you this were to digress from our present controversie Propose yow arguments and I will answer you for the cause in hand els multiplie not words in vaine You now plainly answer that Gods vvord as it is extrinsecal the vvord of God and to be knovvn of us depends of tradition and the authoritie of the church This I reject as an heresie For vvhen vve read or hear the books of Moses or the Prophets vve read that vvhich is spoken to us of God Mark. 1â— 26. compared vvith Math. 22 31. that vvhich the Spirit of God speaketh to the churches Rev. 2 â— 11. novv not to beleeve or rest upon this ground but to rely upon mans record is to make the testimony or man greater extrinsecally to us then the testimonie of God contrarie to 1. Ioh. 5 9. and maketh men lyable to the curse Ier. 17. 5. You
replie unto Act. 26 22. that in tradition nothing is spoken besides that is contrarie to the Apostles speeches First this is untrue many of your church traditioÌ„s are both besides coÌ„ntrary to the scriptures as when we examine the particulars wil appear and yow dare not subject your church and traditions to the trial by the scriptures but yow wil haue mens fayth extrinsecally to depend upoÌ„ your church Secondly you wind away by terms of your owne besides that is contrary vvhereas the Apostle sayth nothing without or except that vvhich the Prophets and Moses sayd none other thing Your allegation from 2. 2. Thes. 2. is answered in my former vvritings You further allege for traditions Act. 15. 41. 16. 4. I answer all Apostolicall decrees such as are ther mentioned we doo receiv but yours decreed by the Pope are Apostaticall Secondly you may see that those which they delivered vvere vvritten before Act. 15. 23 -25 28. c. You say they are uncertayn let the prudent judge And if so they be then are they not necessary for salvation for all such are vvritten Ioh. 20. 30. 31. 2. Tim. 3. 15. 17. Here you interlace 2. other points compâ—â—ing the grounds that vve and that you doe goe vpon and you handle them largely in 55. sections I vvill first follow on vvith your 6. part at S. 153. both because that vvas the course of our former vvritings and the examining of the things alleged for your Pope vvil give light touching these other points which also I vvill consider of after in his place The second of your assertions vvhich now you make the 6. part of your longsome pamphlet vvas That the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith To this now as a man fearful of your cause you have added the Popes definitive sentence at least with a generall council And this you say you are to show and vve say I are ready to behold your showes Here I find no argument by you set down to conclude your assertion as vvas in the former points vvhich is an other declaration of the weaknes of your cause Heretofore to help the Pope you fled to S. Peters prerogatives vvhich vvere they as great as you feign them to be yet as I told you there is no more proved for the Bishop of Rome then for the Bishop of Babylon or Patriarch of Constantinople Yet having no better grounds you agayn flee to them and labour to repayr your showes of Peters preeminence vvhich I by the scriptures had pulled down And first you say that out of the whole series of them and the circumstances and not onely out of each particular you draw an infallible argument I answer the particulars I have proved to be by you wrested so the vvhole series and rank of them can conclude not hing soundly for you Your 1 show vvas S. Peters naming first I told you this is usual but not alwayes and to help you because you complaynâ— cited not the 〈…〉 see Ioh. 1. 45. vvhere Andrew is named before him Gal. 2. 9. vvhere Iames is named before him Mar 16. â— vvhere mention is made oâ— the disciples and Peter so 1 Cor. 9. 5. the Apostles brethren of the Lord and Cephas Though if he had been alvvayes first named it proves him not to be the head of the church more then the first foundation Rev. 21. 19. vvill prove Paul as I shewed you Here you boast that Exod. 28. 18. 19. confutes me vvhere the Iasper you think is the sirt stone and so not the 12. for Benjamin I answer an yll translation hath deceived you For Moses there sheweth that the stone Iaspeh whereof the Greek Iaspis Arabik Iasp Latine Iaspis and English Iasper are naturally derived vvas the â—2 and last in the brestplate and so for Benjamin vvho vvas the last born of the patriarchs to be graved vpon Exod. 28. 9. 10. 21. This your own learned Linguists as Arias Montanus and others doo acknowledge and so correct your translation So the best of the Iewish Rabbines as Maimony vvho sayth Benjamin was written on the Iaspeh Misn. lib. 8. Treat of the vessels of the Sanctuary chapt 9 S. â— And thus Paul of Benjamin hath colour to be the head of the church as vvell as Peter You press Mat 10. 2. the first Simon caled Peter Andrew as you think vvas first in yeres first in caling for proof you cite Ambrose on 2. Cor. 12. I answer first Ambroses humane â—uthority is no proof for Peters pretended divine headship Secondly Ambrose saith not that he vvas first in yeres put that therfore amoÌ„g your own traditioÌ„s but ChrysostoÌ„ if you vvil rely upoÌ„ men maketh Peter elder then Andrew That which Ambrose sayth is Andrew folowed our Sav before Peter this I hold true by Ioh. 1. 40. 41. but it is one thing to folow Christ as a disciple an other thing to be chosen an Apostle as reason teacheth and you may read Mar. 3. 13. 14. 16. compared with Mar. 1. 16. Luk. 6. 12. 13. 14. vvith Luk. 5. 8. 10. That Andrew therefore vvas an Apostle before Peter I deny by vvarrant of scripture thus I wink not as you vvrite but vvith Calvin I confess Peter to be first of the Apostles You grant by that I alleged from 2. King 2. Dan. 3. that such miracles as Peters walking on the water prove no headship of the church so then this also you brought but for a show 3 I corrected your error in translating him for it in Mat. 16. 18. restreyning that to Peter vvhich Christ promised to his vvhole church You stand to it stil. But first against humane learning for autes the feminine gender cannot accord with Petros the malculine as it can and dooth vvith Ecclesias the Church You plead also against true religion for I proved by Ioâ— â—0 27. 28. 29. that all true Christians are invincible of hâ—l gâ—â—â—s and not Peter onely Here you burst out and cry that if I vnderstaÌ„d it in the Calvinisticall sense that one once justified can not be again the child of wrath it is you say a most horrible falshood and against the holy scriptures Rom. 11. 20. 21. Rev. 2. 5 I answer I understand plainly as Christ sayth that his sheep shall never pâ—rish neyther shall any pluck them out of his hand but he vvill give them eâ—er â—al life Ioh. 10. 28. that it is not possible the elect should be seduced 〈…〉 Christ Mat. 24 24. for God putteth his fear in their harts that they shall not depart from him Ier. 32. 40 and Gods gifts and caling are without repentance Rom. 11. 29. and they that are born of God cannot syn vnto death 1 Ioh. 3. 9. And these things accord vvell with Rom. 11. 20. 21. c. for by faith we stand but all men have not faith 2 Thes. 3. 2. there is a vayne fayth
Iam. 2. 14. 17. 20. from that men fall and there is the faith of Gods elect Tit. 1. 1. and this faith justifieth Rom. 4. 3. 5. 5. 1. and from it men never fall finally They may fall into syn by infirmity but shall not be cast off for the Lord putteth under his hand Psal. 37. 24. yea though they fall seven times yet they rise agayn but the vvicked fall into mischief Prov. 24. 16. This is my faith and your contrary Popish heresies I abhorr You deny not but your Popes may be reprobates and damned in hel I trow then hel gates doo prevayl against them and so the promise in Mat. 16. 18. perteyns not vnto them You except the Divil prevayls not against the Pope as he is head of the church as he defines e◠cathedra Yes doubtless therein he most prevayls against him because he allures him into Christs place and so makes him Antichrist And if you had the mind of Christ you would no more regard vvhat Apolluon the P. of Rome defineth ex cathedra unless he could prove it by the holy scriptures then what Apollo the D. of Delphos divined ex tripode 4. Your fourth shew from Peters confirming his brethren being confuted by scriptures Act. 14. 22. and 15. 41. 32. c. you now say the other Apostles confirmed not as the supreme pastor not as the head of the church by office I answer neyther did Peter so if you add that to your wrested text God will reprove you Prov. 30. 6. and your humane testimonies vvhich you abuse also shall not save you You digress to entwite me with gross corruption of the text for Englishing presbyteros an Elder I am loth to folow your outroades onely let me tel you that you check herein your authentik Latin translation which turneth it Senior and Major nat◠and in your divinitie Englishing both Cohen Hiereus a Preist and Zaken Presbuteros a Preist as if these were one you deceiv the simple with a sophistical aequivocatiō And you may as wel say the Apostles were idiots because they are caled idiotai Act. 4. 13. as say Christs ministers are Preists vnderstanding sacrificing Preists because they are caled Presbyteri 5. You daily agayn about Peters feet first washed as some suppose I let you alone vvith your fansie let the reader judge whither it be a fit proof for his headship 6. So for Peters martyrdome vvhence you conclude it was promised to Peter to be head of the church It is a bold untruth the text sayth no such words proveth no such thing 7. Your 7. show was gathered also from a false translation restrayning they began Act. 2. 4. to Peter as if he began which being but a guess you now shrink from that to the next passage in v. 14 c. where from Peters sermon you would prove him head of the church It is a vvorld to see vvhat shifts you are driven to the very naming of them is to all wise men ridiculous But if Peter for first preaching was head of the church that Pope vvhich first left preaching was the head of the Beast and so all your unpreaching Popes at least are Antichrists You graunt agayn that the first miracle which you uncertainly supposed S. Peter vvrought Act. 2. 11. dooth not solely convince what you would herein I beleeve you But I marvel at your discretion that think a number of futilous and vvorthless arguments being heaped togither would perswade any vnto popery unless they be such as are spoken of Prov. 9. 16. who so is simple let him come hither And here you are too lavish of your tongue in saying I cannot deny but our Saviour caleth Peter the rock first washeth his feet that Peter booth the first miracles c. I denyed the first and you cannot prove the latter Though were they al granted for Peter yet your applying them to your Pope is altogither groundless The first excommunication by Peter inferrs you think that he was head Before you urged the act which being proved insufficient now yee flee to the first doing of the act At the most this sheweth but primacie in order which I graunted seing Paul and others did the like But by your manner of reasoning vvhosoever dooth any thing first shall be head of the church And why I pray you by like reason should not those Popes that first practised Simony sorcerie and hypocrisie be heads of the man of syn You leav it for the reader to judge whither all these reasons togither shew not that Peter was rock and head of the church I also referr it to judgment And if your vayn shewes for Peter be not sound proofs for your Pope then he is left naked as the heath in the wildernes Ier. 17. 6. I proved by the scriptures Mat. 28. 18. 19. 20. Ioh. 20. 21. 22. 23. Act. 2. 4. that the other Apostles had equal office charge and power vvith Peter himself you answer the places prove nothing and if ought it is equality of order not of jurisdiction Thus you resist the truth vvithout reason it vvere vvell if you would add doctrine to your lips When all the Apostles are sent by the power of Christ vvith like vvords and authority vvhen the rest as Paul doo whatsoever Peter himself did in word prayer Sacraments censures miracles c. you barely say they vvere not equall in jurisdiction You vveary me vvith your own words and repetitions without proof Seing Gods vvord moves you not let me trie vvhat man 's will doo The rest of the Apostles sayth one of your Doctors vvere verily the same that Peter vvas indued vvith equal participation of honor and of power Being blamed for your making Peter head and rock of the church vvhich are Christs peculiar titles You answer he is the ministerial subordinat head to Christ as Christ is the foundation 1 Cor. 3. 11. yet the Apostles are foundations Eph 2. 20. I answer first Gods word no where caleth Peter the head and vvhy will you be vviser then God Secondly the Apostles because they layd the foundation vvhich vvas Christ as Paul sheweth 1. Cor. 3 10. 11. therfore the Church is sayd to be built upon their foundation Eph. 2. 20. And in this they vvere equal if any excelled it vvas Paul who laboured in laying the foundation more then the rest 2 Cor. 12. 11. 1 Cor. 15. 10. In this sense if you speak of ministerial head that by the ministery of the word Peter preached the head Christ the thing is true but the phrase is not good it vvas true in Paul also as much as Peter yea in all the Apostles and thus all Christs ministers at this day minister and preach him the head vvhich the Pope dooth not But you feign a thing which never vvas that Christ should substitute Peter for head in his place absence no scripture tells
you this but the contrary for Christ being present and vvalking vvith his churches needeth no vicar And this title head God in his vvord giveth onely to Christ Col. 1. 18. Yet you leaving Gods vvord fly to your S. Basil for succor that all men may see your church and prelacy is built on the sands of mens traditions not on the Rock of divine oracles You vvill not from it but Peter signifies a rock vvhich I have disproved and shewed that Petros of Petra the Rock and Cephas of Ceph is no more then to be a Christian of Christ. Peter vvas a principal stone yea the first if you vvill layd upon Christ the chief corner stone the Rock all Christians are living stones layd on him also Your racked allegations from Augustine and other Doctors I vvil not spend time to confute for I build my religion vpon the Rock Christ not upon men Your reason vvhy the gender vvas not changed in Christs name as in Peters is for that all vvhich admitted of his doctrine vvould not deny him to be head of the church I see you love to say somwhat unto every thing I also may say all vvhich admitt of the Popes doctrine vvill not deny Peter to be head of the church so by your argument there was no need to change the gender for him neyther And so the scripture hath doon somthing needless or els your answer is fruitless How you save Optatus credit and your self from blame for falsely interpreting Cephas a head contrary to the holy Ghost Ioh. 1. 43. vvho interpreteth it a stone I leave it for the learned to judge Your exception that Peter vvas not elected to be the mouth of the rest vvas refelled in my former vvriting if you vvould rest for Thomas Philip Iude vvere not elected any more then Peter to speak for the other disciples Ioh. 14. 5. 8. 22. yet you vvill not have them heads So your distination of the Apostles equallity in power of order not of jurisdiction is a bare repetition of a thing never proved but before refuted And where you add equall as they were Apostles but not as they were Bishops it is mere trifling you might as vvell say equal as they were men but not as they vvere living creatures For they vvere no otherweise Bishops then as they were Apostles And in Act. 1. you may see that Iudas his Episcopee or Bishops office vvas no other then his Apostolee or Apostles office Act. 1. v. 20. compared vvith v. 17. 25. 26. Besides by 1. Cor. 12. 28. and Ephe. 4. 11. you may see the Apostles were by office the first in the church that if the other were equal vvith Peter in the Apostleship as you graunt they vvere equal also in al power that if you resist any longer you vvill be condemned of your self Your succession grounded but vpon mens report I allow not of for you build on boggs Your understanding of that admonition Rom. 11. 20. 22. c. is partly true and against your self in that you vvrote before S. 162. partly it is frivolous vvhiles you dream of more previlege to the See of Roome and Bishop there then to others churches and Bishops You have no colour for this in the testament of Christ yet is it the mayn thing that yow should prove if it were possible No citie in the world remayneth so execrable by Gods word as Rome for killing Christ of old by her power and pollicie and for being Antichrists throne Rev. 17. and 18. It is worth the noting that you doo not hold the Pope is necessarily indued with Gods holy grace And that in matters of fact he maysyn you say as well as any other Your Popes facts I am sure prove this if any shoud have the face to deny it Hereupon I inferr that your Popes are not members and so not possibly heads of the catholik church of God It is high blasphemy to say the head of that church may want Gods holy grace Colos. 1 18. c. 2 19. How now doo you know that the traditions and definitions of your graceless Popes are of God If you trie them not by the scriptures which you dare not because of the private spirit they may deceive and damne your soul as well as any other men You say you hold a necessary assistance which the Pope hath of the holy Ghost as he defines ex cathedra And upon what ground hold you this You find in Gods book no mention eyther of your Pope or of his Chayr for good The Apostle Peter directeth us to that vvhich holy men of God spake not to that vvith Satans slaves doo teach such as vvas P. Silvester the 2. of vvhom Cardinal Benno vvriteth that he came up out of the abyss or bottomless deep o◠divine permission And by the same answers of the Divils vvherby he had deceived many he vvas also deceived himself vvas intercepted vvith suddayn death by the judgment of God And yet vvil you trust such a miscreant that out of his chayr he vvill tel you none but divine oracles Never vvas there such a thing known since the beginning of the vvorld that a graceless reprobate should have necessarily the assistance of the holy Ghost so often as he sits him down on his chayr to define or determine the matters of God No religion on earth to my knowledge ever admitted such an unreasonable doctrine for vvhich you have no proof unless from the Popes own ungracious spirit vvhereby he exalteth himself against all that is caled God 2. Thes. 2 4. Notvvithstanding you labour to justify your S. Leo that sayd the head meaning I trow your ministeriall head at Rome infuseth grace to the whole church that God took S. Peter into the fellowship of the individual vnity And doe you in earnest beleev these things of your reprobate Popes as of S. Silvester the 2. of that Divil incarnate S. Iohn the 22. their like I perceive it is not vvithout cause that the scarlet coloured beast is sayd to be full of the names of blasphemie And here you say I see your religiō is no upstart religiō that so many yeres agoe was mainteyned Yes upstart it is but many yeres agoe I grant for the mysterie of iniquity did vvork evē vvhiles Paul lived 2 Thes. 2. 7. he told how after his departure greivous wolves should enter not sparing the flock under the name of wolves comprehending it may be Lions also and all other salvage beasts Wherefore Antichrist is an old man though you mistake as if he were yet scarse in his cradle 2. You helpe S. Leo as meaning that vvhich S. Peter sayd of such as should be partakers of the godly nature I answer first this is a very friendly interpretation that the fellowship of the individual unity should be but participation of the godly nature which al Christiās are partakers of A man may
thus interpret the Familists blasphemie that they are Godded with God But I wil take S. Leo at the best Secondly therfore I answer that this speach of Peter vvas to all the Saincts that fled the corruption vvhich is in the vvorld through lust 2. Pet. 1. 1. 4. so that S. Peters privilege vvill get litle hereby much less the Popes For these graces have not appeared in many heads of your church but the contrary vvhiles your Popes folowed the corruption in the vvorld through lust as your self deny not so then such vvere not partakers of the divine but of the Divils nature And now consider vvhat grace they have infused into your church But for this participation you say S. Greg. the 7. prayed to S. Peter I think vve shall have a God of him anone You say nay but that he vvould be an intercessor And herein say I you make him Christ for there is as the scripture telleth us one God and one mediator between God and man the man Christ Iesus But if this reason be good the Pope may kneel and pray to you also for if you be as you suppose a true Christian then have you that participation of the divine nature 2. Pet. 1. 4. and the prayer of the righteous one for another even in this vvorld avayleth much as th'Apostle telleth us Yet for al this I think the Pope vvill scarse pray unto you as he dooth to S. Peter Whereas I sayd one of your Canonists caled him our Lord God the Pope you first charge me vvith untruth as if I sayd your Canonists and so made it an ordinary style of the canon law I answer you mistake my vvriting whâ—re you may see it sayd one of them But had I vvritten as you say you need no more blame me for untruth then a paynim might cavil at the Euangelist for flying that the theeves reproched Christ Mat. 27. 44. vvhen it vvas but one of them that did so Luk 23 39. 40. You say in a vvritten copy in the Vatican library the vvord God is not found but our Lord the Pope I rest in your reporte for the blasphemy vvas so gross as I think you are all ashamed of it Yet that so it hath been divulged by your selves in other copies you cannot deny And I trow you are not ignorant that your Pope is caled God oftner theÌ„ once for see vvhat is also vvritten Clement in proem in Gloss. and Concil Lateran Sess. 4. sub Leo. 10. Therefore you vvould help it by scriptâ—re alleging Ps. 81. 6. I have sayd you are Gods c. I am sory that you set your self to justify all grossnes Our Lord God is a peculiar phrase to the onely true God not to magistrates caled Gods by office much less to any Vsurper But if you vvill needs have it so let the Pope be caled God of the Papists D. Stapleton saluteth Pope Gregorie 13. as his supreme Numen or God on earth He vvas not therefore of the Prophets religion vvho sayd vvhom have I in heaven but thee oh Lord and there is none on earth that I desire besides thee Psal. 73. 25. Your self have vvritten the Pope to be the Universal Pastor Ioh. 10. he as I told you is one with the Father Ioh. 10. 30. and you retract it not I know no reason if you hold this stil vvhy you may not say as the Apostle Thomas sayd to the true Universal Pastor Christ My Lord my God Ioh. 20. 28. and pray to the Pope as did that vnclean mouth vvhich sayd o thou that takest away the synns of the world have mercy vpon us Your opinion about deposing Princes I am not ignorant of as you suppose Your Mr. the Cardinall hath lately vvritten more then a good deal hereabouts But I forbear to urge this point least you should think I went about to ensnare you I wish more good vnto you For a conclusion you repete your former scriptures togither for S. Peters preeminence I referr you and al to my former refutation of your showes Onely I will answer where you add now somwhat more as you say The Angel directeth Peter to goe before them as their Captayn Mark 16 17. This is a palpable perverting of the scripture for the Angel there speaketh of Christ to the women goe tel his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilâ—e there ye shal see him This which Christ had promised to doo himself Mark 14. 28. and now performed it Mark 16. 17. you falsely apply unto Peter to prove him head and Captayn and so by Peters feighned Captainship to intrude your Pope as head and Captayn so thrusting out Christ. Did ever men offer such abuse to Gods word as you doo No better is your next addition S. Peter you say came first to the monument Ioh 20. 4. were this so what sense is there to conclude him head of the Church for it Mary Magdalen was there before Peter Ioh. 20. 1. why doo you not make her head But you falsify the scripture for it sayth they rann both togither but the other disciple did outrun Peter and came first to the monument That which the holy Ghost witnesseth of Iohn the other disciple that doo you ascribe to Peter How unsufferably doo you vvrest the scripture What lyes may vve think vvill you not preach to your seduced people vvhich may not read the scriptures vvhen you vvrite thus to me But any thing is good ynough to help your Popes like proofe like prerogative Thirdly you add S. Paul came to Ierusalem to see S. Peter Gal. 1. 18. This had had some show if he had come to Rome to see S. Peter now if it could prove S. Peters preemineÌ„cie it might have some colour for the Bishops of Ierusalem but for the Pope of Rome none at all No more then as if one should reason thus Iudas betrayed his master therefore the Pope is Antichrist I think you vvil not graunt the conclusion though it be truer then yours I further answer that Paul there proveth his authority to be no vvay inferiour to Peters both by his caling v. 1. and his behaviour after his caling for he vvent not to Ierusalem to them vvhich vvere Apostles before him but as he saith vnto Arabia and turned agayn unto Damascus v. 17. then after 3. yeares he vvent to Ierusalem to see Peter vvhich being compared vvith his words and deeds after Gal 2. 6. 7. 8. 11. c. argue rather Pauls Priviledge then Peters For his going to Peter vvil no more debase him then the mother of our Lord vvho vvent into the hil country to Elizabet vvith vvhom she taryed much longer then Paul did vvith Peter Luk. 1. 39. 40 43. 56. And now we have seen your plea for S. Peter I vvil shew how a man might plead better for S. Paul that he was the head of your Catholik Roman church as you vainly call it
1. S. Paul was caled to his office not by S. Peter but by Iesus Christ Gal. 1. 1. 2. S. Paul received the doctrine vvhich he preached not from S. Peter but by revelation froÌ„ Iesus Christ Gal. 1. 12. 3. S. Paul laboured in preaching the gospell more then S. Peter did 1. Cor. 15. 10. 4. S. Paul went and preached vvithout so much as conferring vvith S. Peter or the rest Gal. 1. 16. 17. 5. The gospel over the vncircumcision that is the Gentils among vvhom Rome vvas cheif was committed to S. Paul Gal. 2. 7. 6. S. Paul had upon him the care of all churches 2 Cor. 11. 28. 7. S. Paul hath vvritten and opened clearly the great mysteries of Christ in his Epistles more then S. Peter or any Apostle 8. S. Pauls vvritings are by S. Peter himself reckned among the holy scriptures 2 Pet. 3. 15. 16. 9. S. Paul rather then any other Apostle vvas caled of God to preach at Rome Act. 23. 11. 10. In his voyage to Rome he vvas marvelously saved from shipwrack and very memorable accidents fel out besides in that journey Act. 27. and 28. 11. S. Paul preached the gospel and suffered persecution in Rome and stood for the truth vvhen no man there assisted him Act. 28. 30. 31. 2 Tim. 4. 16. 12. S. Paul preached at Antioch where the name Christians vvas first given Act. 11. 26. 13. S. Paul vvithstood S. Peter to his face and blamed him vvhen he did amyss Gal 2. 11. c. 14. S. Paul first casteth out the Divil of divination Act. 16. 16. 15. He striketh Elymas the forcerer vvith blindnes Act. 13. 8. 11. 16. S. Paul in visions vvas taken up into the third heaven into paradise 2. Cor. 12. 2. 4. 17. S. Paul in nothing vvas inferior to the very cheif Apostles 2 Cor. 12. 11. 18. He vvas of that tribe vvhose precious stone is the first foundation of the heavenly Ierusalem Rom. 11. 1. Rev. 21. 19. Exod. 2â— 10. 20. 21. Therefore for all those reasons S. Paul vvas head of the Catholick Roman Church Here I appele unto any unpartial reader vvhither my proofs for S. Paul be not stronger then yours for S. Peter and vvhither the Pope vvas not overseen to choose S. Peter for his patron vvhom he cannot prove by any one title of Gods vvord that ever he set foot in Rome gates to leave S. Paul vvho vvas caled of God to preach there and did so a long time as the scriptures doo confirm Yet for all this you vvil not graunt that S. Paul vvas head of the church therefore say I neyther S. Peter and as for your Pope he hath no more â—ight to shew for the same then Mahomet We have seen your proofs from scripture you add unto them Doctors And here as before you bring in your forgeries of Clemens and Dioâ—ysius c vvith other vvrested testimonies of the Fathers Who al of them if they sayd as much as you vvould have them had no authority to make an head for the church Secondly vvhatsoever they sayd for Peter it proveth nothing for your Pope He must therefore shew better evidence for his usurped prelacy or els he must stil be reputed the adversary that exalteth himself 2 Thes. 2. 4. You proceed and say that S. Peters authority must be derived to his successors lawfully elected and governing at Rome This is the mayn point vvhich I vvould fayn see proved You could prove it by expresse authority of all the fathers cited but let reason you say suffice me Behold here and let all that have eyes behold the desperatenes of your cause vvho for the mayn ground of your religion church vvhereof you so boast cannot allege any one word or title of holy scripture but leave those true and ancient infallible records and betake you to the latter forged erroneous humane testimonies traditions of men I deny that Peter left any such successor in his office as you dream of and for the Pope to chaleng it is to folow the violencie of his private spirit as you sayd of Pope Stephen Now let us hear your reasoÌ„ Christ gave the power of preaching c. you say for the good of others to the worlds end This I graunt So Christ nstituting S. Peter the head you say would have that prehemineÌ„ce derived to his lawful successors All this I deny 1. He made not Peter head much less his successors â— He appointed no such successors after Peter in his office 3. If Peter vvere to have successors the Bishop of Rome hath no more to say for it by vvarrant from Christ then all other Bishops in the vvorld vvho for preaching ministring sacraments and governing their flocks have and ever had equal power with the Bishop of Rome vvhen he was at the best Thus after your long and tedious dispute you coÌ„clude vvith a fayr begging of the question not being able to produce one line of the bible which speaketh for your Pope nor any sufficient ground of reason How soundly now you have proved your sixth part viz. That the Popes definitive sentence at least with a general council â—t is a sufficient groundwork of fayth let any indifferent reasonable man give sentence Here I did not dare you as you say to bring in the arrowes of the fathers c in an other place it vvas that I gave you leave to use their reasons if you pleased but not to press me vvith their bare names as your manner is to doo And in all your long discourse let the reader mind vvhat any one scripture or reason you have had by the help of Doctor Father Council or Pope to prove your assertion that the Popes definitive sentence is to be a ground of our faith You object and that often that unless I wil eat my word you must preferr the uniform consent of the Fathers before me I answer to your often repetitions this First I spake of moe and others then you account holy Fathers yea I included such as I doubt not but you vvould burne for hereticks Secondly I spake and agayn speak it unfeighnedly as is in my hart being privy to my own manifold ignorances and infirmities and esteming of others better then of my self Thirdly therefore I say beleeve not me but beleeve the word of God which I shew vnto you If I speak of my selfe tread it vnder your foot but if I speak the words of God in despising theÌ„ you despise the Lord sinning against your sowl And if you depend on the sentences of Fathers Councils Popes not confirmed by the scriptures you make idols of them and heap up wrath upon your head Leave therefore your disdayning of me and leave your extolling of other men for all flesh is grass and all the glory of man is as the flower of grass which withereth away but the word of the Lord endureth for ever and that is the word which the Apostles preached to the churches 1.
he is the eight and is one of the seaven meaning the Popes vvho by an Ecclesiasticall goverment differ from the civil Emperors and so are an eight yet because they reign togither vvith the Emperours they make as it were one regiment and so the eight is one of the seven as the scripture sayth And that the word King dooth signify a kingdome or regiment appeareth by Dan. 7. 17. where the 4. beasts are sayd to be 4. kings meaning kingdomes as is explayned in v. 23. the fourth beast is the fourth kingdome So this exposition is playn and according to truth And thus notwithstanding all that you have brought the Pope remayneth Antichrist And think it not much that Antichrist is so ancient The Iewes look for Christ and he is come 1600. yeres agoe but they know him not You looke for Antichrist and he hath been wel nigh so many yeres in the vvorld and you are not aware If you read the book of the Revelation judicially God opening your hart you may discern that mysterie of Babylon which yet is hidden from your eyes And for preeminence forbidden to Christs ministers see Mat. 20. 25. 26. Luk. 22. 25. 26. That which you allege of Tit. 2. 15. showes the power authoritie of the word duly preached and applyed to mens consciences and is not peculiar to the head of the church the Pope for you see Titus there had it but it is common to all Christs ministers You turne back to your general argument vvhich I had confuted How good a defense you have brought I am content to let the prudent reader judge Onely where you charge me vvith falshood for saying the Pope with you is above the law which you deny in my sense I answer my sense is according to your own explication that extrinsecally and as it is to be knowen of us Gods word depends on the churches that is the Popes authority He putteth Apocryphal lying books in to the holy canon his interpretation though absurd and hereticall must stand for authentick and a definition of his ex cathedra you reverence as an oracle And he dispenseth against Gods law Is not he now above yea he sitteth as God in the Temple of God as Paul prophesied 2 Thes. 2. 4. The third thing which heretofore the seventh thing which now you should prove is that the indeficieÌ„t rule of our fayth is onely to be found in the â—â—man catholick church sentence and not in private mens illuminatioÌ„s c. I hold neyther of these as I told you before You labour agayn to mainteyn the former First you prove this in that the RomaÌ„ church you say is the onely true catholick church I answer You fayrly beg the question and would prove it is so because it is so You speak vntruely in calling her the true church proudly in caling her the onely true church absurdly in caling her the catholick that is the vniversal church None of all these can you make any proof of you referr in the margin to S. 123. and let men look what proof they can find there I for the present referr you and all to your own Cardinal Baronius testimonie of your holy church as he found it in his ancient records and put it in his Chronicles thus What was then the face of the holy Roman church how filthy was it when most mighty and eke most filthy whores ruled at Rome at whose pleasure seats were changed Bishops were given which is horrible and vile to heare false-Popes their paramours were intruded into Peters seat c. Loe here the bewty of that Catholick church whose sentence you say is the indeficient rule of your faith You are glad that I refuse the name Catholik and I am glad of and content me with that ancient name of a Christian given of God Act. 11 26 keep you your new fangled name of your own divising to be called a catholik that is an Universal I envie you not You are very angrie that I proved unto you the marks of your Roman church by the word of God which you had set down without proof You had cause rather to be thankfull But now the reader may see how having nothing soundly to reply you wilfully persist in your error for which I am sory Your reproches I bear with patience Leaving your former reasons helpless you conclude with a coÌ„mon argumeÌ„t for your church religioÌ„ That seing your faith is coÌ„fessed to be so ancient if it be not froÌ„ God it must be grounded on carnal motives viz the profit of the spiritual or the temporall But it is not you say for the profit or pleasure of the clergie as appeares by their cha â—â—ity vowes fasting praying c. Nor of temporal Princes for how should so many Emperors Kings c. be brought to confess their syns fast c. I answer first your religioÌ„ in som points of it is ancient I coÌ„fess eveÌ„ as ancienâ— as the Apostles daies vvhen the mystery of iniquity begaÌ„ to work 2. Thes. 2. 7. men loved preeminence 3. Iohn 9. many Antichrists vvent abroad 1 Ioh. 2. 18. vvhich vvere foretunners of the great Antichrist folowing Who vvas to be reveled vvhen he that theÌ„ letted viz. the heathen Empire vvas taken out of the vvay 2. Thes. 2. 7. 8. But yet the truth of the Gospel preached by the Apostles vvas more ancient 1 Ioh. 2. 24. which therefore is to be our rule and stay not humane doctrines that came up after Secondly I answer the ambition profit and pleasure of the Bishops and Preists vvere the motives unto this height of evil For histories record the contentions that vvere in churches and among Bishops especially of Rome and of Constantinople vvho should be greatest This made P. Gregory to say the King of pride is at haud and quod dici quoque nefas est an arwie of Preists is ready for him I wish you vvould beleeve this Popes tradition here As for Profits and pleasures vvho seeth not that Christ and his Apostles being poor and Peter himself having neyther silver nor gold to give a needy man Act. 3. 6. Your clergy have gotten such patrimonies falsly purloyned in S. Peters name as they are of the richest in the vvorld their treasures infinite their palaces like Kings their apparel prince like their Kitchins ful of the finest fare the plesantest fertilest lands in all countries being ingrossed for the clergie for church livings Their doctrines of Purgatory and pardons being onely to pick mens purfes Their vowes of chastitie being to desile themselves in filthy Sodonne adulterie and fornication vvitness the 6000. childrens heads that vvere found murdered in P. Gregories fishpond which moved him to reverse his own wicked decree that restreyned the Clergie froÌ„ their wives besides infinite other testimonies of these evils in other places Their fasting being a mere mockery to absteyn superstitiously
compared vvith Tob. 15. 18. 1. Maccab. 6. 16. vvith 2. Mac. 1. 16. 2. Macc. 1. 19. vvith 2. King 25. Iudith 9. 2. 3. vvith Gen. 49. 5. 6. Esth. apopcryph 12. 5. 6. vvith Esth. can 6. 3. and 3. 2. Esth. apoc 11. 2. vvith Esth. can 2. 16. besides their Popes determinations for making and vvorshiping of similitudes or images of silver and gold wood and stone hethenlike for having the vvorship of God and scriptures in a barbarous tongue vvhich the people understand not and many the like are expressly contrary to the commandements of God as any man of common judgment may evidently preceive yea some of their Popes have repeled the decrees one of another as before hath been manifested Eightly The summ of our faith learned from holy scriptures is to trust on God and Christ alone for mercy and salvation not on creatures as Angels and souls of men nor on our selves or humane merits vvhereby vve resting on God have and doo profess to have ful assurance of our salvation and so have peace of conscience in life and death But Popish faith learned by tradition teacheth men not to trust on God and Christ alone but on the intercession of creatures and Pardons of Popes and on their own merits also for salvatioÌ„ vvhereby their coÌ„sciences accusing them they neyther have nor profess to have such peace by full assurance that they are heyres of God unto salvation as vve nay they rage against this truth as against an heresie Ninthly The holy scriptures vvhich vve rest vpon are of such power and authority that many thowsands in their ages have given their lives for the defense of them and of the things taught onely in them yea even hereticks have dyed for things vvhich they have erroneously thought to be in the scriptures reveled But for Papists they cannot shew many if any that have vvillingly given their lives for such doctrines as have onely bene taught by men by unwritten popish tradition and not in their judgment by the prophetical and Apostolical scriptures Tenthly the Holy scriptures vvhich are the rule of our faith have prophesies of things to come and due accomplishments of the prophesies as they vvere foretold vvhereby vve are confirmed of the truth and infallibility of those vvritings But the vvritings of Doctors Councils Popes on vvhich Papists rely are destitute of this confirmation Neyther dooth the Pope use to prophesie though it vvere necessary if he vvould as Christs vicar obtrude his ovvn decrees for divine oracles seing the testimony of Iesus is the spirit of prophesie as the Angel sayd Rev. 19. 10. Nay rather the prophesies of scripture plainly foreshew the Church of Rome to be the whore of Babylon and her Lord the Pope to be Antichrist Which he fearing it wil come to light forbiddeth therfore his subjects the reading of Gods book Eleventhly Papists themselves are forced in disputing against Iewes which were once Gods church and from which they themselves with us received the books of Moses and the Prophets to use onely the holy scriptures and prophesies to convince them for their Romish church traditions the Iewes doo not regard With these scriptures the Papists doo rightly think the Iewes are sufficiently convicted Even so doo we much more having the scriptures of the new Testament added to the old rightly hold it sufficient to convince the Papists by the written vvord vvhich they acknowledge to be of God and they have no more reason to refuse this and draw us to their Popes decretals then the Iewes have to refuse the Bible and draw men to their high preists Rabbies and Thalmuds or the Turkes to their Alkoran 12. Finally grace vvisdom and divine majesty appeareth in the holy scriptures to all that read them except they have a reprobate sense even by the confession of our adversaries But no such vvisdom grace or majesty appeareth in Popes decrétals more then in other humane vvritings yea they are full of ignorance grossnes barbarisme error favouring of the Popes private spirit as any of understanding unless they be the Popes bondmen vvil confess and no singular grace appeareth in them more then in the books of H. N. or Alkoran of Mahomet For all vvhich and sundry other like reasons vvhich might be alleged every reasonable infidel vvhom God vvill save vvill rather incline to our grounds of ancient Christianity then to the other of late Iesuitisme or Popery Let him that readeth consider and give sentence By this vvhich hath bene vvritten you may see M. I. A. that we fly not for proof to our privat spirit as you often slander us but we say a Papist may be couvinced by the wisdome and majesty of God shining in the scriptures and other arguments forementioned more easily then an Atheist can be convinced by the wisdom and majesty of God shining in the creatures And if this later were sufficient by th'Apostles testimony to condemn the hethens the former must needs be more sufficient to condemn you especially seing you confess the scriptures to be of GOD vvhereas the Atheist will not confess the world to be of God and yet you dare not abide the trial of your religion by this book of God without your own traditions and decrees also Whereas if you graunt a Turk to be tried by the Bible and his Alkoran or a Iew to be tried by the Prophets and his Thalmud you will betray all Christianity And when one ask you a reason vvhy you beleeve the scriptures or any doctrine to be of God you answer that extrinsiâ—ally that is outwardly and in respect of your selves it is because your church that is the Pope vvho is head of your church telleth you so and not by your own private spirit Which is as if one should ask vvhy you beleeve the sun to be the light of the vvorld and you should answer extrinsecally because the Pope tells you so and not because of any private sight or discerning in your own eyes Ask you agayn vvhither you know the Pope to be a man of God furnished vvith his grace and spirit that he cannot deceive you You answer we hold not that the Pope is necessarily indued with Gods holy grace for in matter of faâ—t he may syn as wel as any other Ask you agayn how then you trust such vile ungracious Popes as many have been by your own mens testimony you answer you hold the Pope hath a necessary assistance of the holy Ghost as he defines ex cathedra out of his chayr as the head of the church Ask you a proof of this paradox and you cannot bring any one line of Gods holy scriptures to confirme it you can neythâ—r find the Pope nor his chayr there mentioned any more then Mahomâ—t or the Alkoran Then you flee to late humane testimonies of Doctors Fathers Councils vvhich also you vvrest Yet ask you vvhither those Doctors vvere necessarily indued vvith the spirit of God could not
Pet. 1. 24. 25. Finally you are farr from an uniforme consent of the fathers to prove your haeretical assertion Though many of them were mistaken in some things yet were they not so senseless as to beleeve that graceless reprobate Popes must needs have such grace as to desine nothing but truth out of their chair But you that have abused the holy scriptures as I have proved what wrong wil you not doo to the fathers You are moved I see with my free applying of the scriptures that speak of Antichrist unto your Pope I am content to bear your contempt but I must call evil evil and faithfully witness what God hath manifested though men gnaw their tongues for payn You goe about to prove that the Pope is not Antichrist First for then it should folow that hel gates have prevayld against Gods church many 100. yeres c. I answer nay For it is prophesied the woman the church should flee into the wildernes where God should feed her 1260. dayes Rev. 12. 6. which may be so many prophetical yeares as Dan. 9. 24. though therefore the church was persecuted into secret places yet hel prevayled not agaynst it In the old world the church was but in that one familie of Noah Gen. 6. 1. Pet. 3. 20. And Christ likeneth these last dayes vnto those Mat. 24. 37. Agayn you except how many martyrs Doctors c. in offring up homage to the beast should broyl in hel c. I answer this is no proof if it were as you inferr But howsoever it is true the sowl that synneth shall dye yet in many things we syn all and the blood of Iesus Christ clenseth us from all syn except the syn against the holy Ghost even from our secret synns Although therefore many Doctors helped vp Antichrist vnawares yet doubt I not but Gods mercy hath superabounded above all their syn and saved them for they did it ignorantly Your 2. reason is Antichrist shal be one particular man as Ioh. 5. 43. another shal come in his own name so he is opposed by Christ person to person c. but the Popes are many successively And 2 Thes. 2. he is caled the man of syn c. I answer when Christ sayd Another shal come he meant not one persoÌ„ but many of one kind successivly My reasons are first because he sayd elswhere many shal come in my name saying I am Christ and there shal arise false Christs false Prophets Secondly because Antichrist is described as a Beast Rev. 13. which beast in the Prophets signifieth a kingdom and many persons of one sort as is sayd in Dan. 7. 23. the fourth beast shal be the fourth kingdom c. So the Lion vvas for all the Kinges of Babylon the Bear for all the Kings of Persia c. Dan. 7. 4. 5. so by proportion that deformed beast Rev. 1â— for all Popes Thirdly because the word Allos another vvhich Christ useth often noteth many particular men of one kind as in Ioh. 4. 37. one soweth and another reapeth which he expoundeth in the next words v. 38. other man laboured meaning the Prophets and ye my Apostles enter into their labours And thus the man of syn though he be one person at once yet successively meaneth many as when Christ sayth Ioh. 10. 10. the theef coÌ„meth not but to steal he restreyneth it not to one theef in person alwayes but meaneth every theef whensoever he coÌ„meth Fourthly Antichrist cannot be one singular man as you think because he must reign at least 1000. yeres as may be gathered by Rev. 20. 4. vvhere the godly vvhich worshiped not the Beast lived reigned with Christ 1000. yeres during vvhich time the Beast persecuted and kylled them also by the vvomans lying hid in the vvildernes so many dayes Rev. 12. Your 3. reason is Antichrist shal be of the tribe of Dan as Gen. 49. 17. Dan shal be a serpent c. Ier. 8. 16. the neyghing of horses was heard from Dan. c. I answer first you shew no reason that this is meant properly of Antichrist And if figuratively it is nothing to the purpose for Antiochus Nabuchodonosor and others figured him also Secondly Iakobsprophefie which was a blessing and not a curse as Antichrist is vvas literally meant of Samson a man of that tribe caled therefore Bedan 1 Sam. 12. 11. vvho for his subtile vndermining of the Philistins vvas likened to a serpent Iudg. 14. c. And thus the Chalde paraphrast on that place expoundeth it saying There shall be a man which shall be chosen rise out of the house of Dan vvhose fear shal fal vpon the peoples and he shall valiantly smite the Philistians as an adder as an asp he shal lye in wayt by the path he shal sâ—ay the strong horsmen in the host of the Philistians c. That of 〈◊〉 8. is meant properly of vvarrs in those costs of Dan in those times not of Antichrist now as the vvhole scope of the scripture there manifesteth Your 4. reason is Antichrist shal oppugn the misteries of our saviour 1 Ioh. 2. 22. and extol himself above all that is sayd God 2. Thes. 2 I answer this is true in your Popes for they oppugn Christ in his office of prophesie preisthood and kingdom in their heretical doctrine of mans merits mass sacrifice purgatorie c. and in making lawes for the church in forbidding people the holy scriptures in their mother tongue and many the like Though this is doon vnder colour of meeknes and holynes for the beast hath 2. hornes like the lamb as if he were Christs own vicar Rev. 13. 11. If you rest not in the scripture let S. Bernard move you who vvitnessed that the Beast in the Revelation which hath a mouth speaking blasphemies occupied Peters chayr Your 5 reason is The 7. mountayns in Rev. 17. are sayd to be 7. Kings none of vvhith agree vvith the Pope I answer yes the seventh agrees very vvel For the woman is the great city Rome Rev. 17. 18. the beast on vvhich she rideth hath 7. heads vvhich are expounded there to be both 7. mountains and 7. Kings Rev. 17. 3. 9 The 7. mountayns ar famous through the world as Palatinus Capitolinus Aventinus Esquilinus Caelius Viminalis Quirinalâ—s on vvhich mountayns Rome was builded The 7. Kings are also the 7. goverments of Rome renoumed also in histories As by Kings by Consuls by Decemiviri by Dictators by Triumviri by Caesars by forreyn Emperours and Popes Therefore vvhen Iohn vvrote the five first vvere fallen removed Rev. â—7 10. and one sayth he is namely the sixt by the Caesars and another is not yet come vvhich vvas the forrayn Emperors as Trajan the Spanyard and the like who vvhen they came should continue but a vvhile Constantine going to Bizantium and the Empire being overâ—un by the barbarous Gothes c. And the Beast sayth