this the Norâ—â—â—formists doe both teach and practice and therefore they have humbly sued for reformation but never either practised or approved your separation That which you cite out of the Harmony of confessions as if the reformed Churches did allow or teach what you practice I will set downe and leave it to every man to judge of your fidelitie The Church k Gallic confest art 26. None but Princes can give freedome and protectioÌ„ to these spirituall functions and actions Bilson Christian part 2. pag. 309. Gallican saith thus Credimus igitur nemiâ—â—â— licerâ— sese catibus subducerâ— in seipso aequiescere sed patius 〈◊〉 sâ—â—â—il tuendam conservandam esse Ecclesiae unitatem sese communi institutioni jugo Christi subijciendo ubjcunque Deus verâ—â—n illam disaiplinam Ecclesiastioâ—n constistuerit etiamsi Magistratuum edicta reclament à quo oxdiâ—â— quicubque seipsos seiâ—â—gunt ordinationi Dei resistant Psal 5. 42. Ephes 4.11 Act. 4.19 5.29 Heb. 10.25 And the l Belgic confessart 28. Without the helpe of Princes though the faith and Canons of Christs Church may bee privately professed and observed of such as be willing yet can they not be generally planted or setled in any kingdome nor urged by publique Lawes externall punishments on such as refuse but by their coÌ„sents that beare the sword Bils ibid. pag. 327. Id. part 3. pag. 296. If you will have the assistance of the Magistrates sword to settle the truth and prohibites errour and by wholesome punishments to prevent the disorder of all degrees that authoritie lieth onely in the Prince Belgick thus Credimus qued cum sacer hic caetus congregatio sit corum qui servari debent salus nulla sit extra eam neminem cujuscunque dignitatis aut nominiâ— is fuerit sese ab ea-subducere aut segregari debere ut sua tantuâ— consuâ—tudine contentus solus ac separatim vivat Sed conâ—â—a â—â—â—es as singulos teneri huic caetui se adjungere Ecclesiae unitatem sollicitè conservare seque illius tum doctrinae tum disciplinae subjicere collum denique Christi jugo sponte submittere tanquanâ— communia ejusdem corporis membra adificationi fratrum inservire prout Deus unicuique sua dona fuerit largitus Porro ut haee melius observentur omnium fidelium partes sunt sese juxta Dei verbum ab eis omnibus disjungere qui sunt extra ecclesiam constituti huicque fidelium caetui ac congregationi sese adjungere ubicunque illam Deus constituerit et si id contraria principum vel Magistratuum edicta prohibeant indicta etiam in eos capitis mortis corporcae poenâ qui id fecerint Quicunque igitur à vera illa Ecclesia recedunt aut sese illi aggregare recusant apertè Dei mandato repugnant Thus the Conclusion CHAP. IV. SECT I. ALL true visible Churches gathered and planted according to Gods Word Can. Neces of Separat pag. 173. consisted in their constitution of Saints onely But the Churches of England after Popery were not so constituted For the greatest number of them were prophane people even mockers and contemners of Religion as Atheists Idolaters Sorcerers Blasphemers and all sorts of miscreants and wicked livers Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible Churches There is never a part of this argument they can deny unlesse they will let fall their owne principles For the Assumption I make no question but it will passe without exception and none of them will have the face to oppose it considering how generally the thing hath beene affirmed and still is upon all occasions both in word and writing Now that the proposition may appeare as true also I will prove the same first by Scriptures secondly by reason thirdly by the testimonies of the learned ANSVVER IF both parts of this Argument be Nonconformists principles why doe you labour to prove the proposition true more than the assumption If it had been a confessed principle why doe you not fight against them with their own weapons as you pretend to doe throughout your Booke He is very dull that doth not smell somewhat herein But if it so please you The proposition is the Nonconformists and it is not For if this be the meaning thereof That all true Churches should consist of visible Saints not onely in their first gathering planting and constitution but also in their after continuance and propagations the Nonconformists doe acknowledge it for when sinne and wickednesse springeth or groweth in the Church the ordinance of God is violated But if this be the meaning That the societie which consisteth not of Saints onely is not the true Church of Jesus Christ that the Nonconformists utterly deny Also it is one thing to say The m Hieron Prefar lib. 2. in Epist ad Galat. Rursus facilitatis superbiae arguunturs Id. ad princ Marcelle Epitaph Difficile est in maledicâ civitate non aliquaÌ„ sinistri rumoris fabulam contrabere Id. in Praefat. in lib. Dydimini Sp. Sa. Cum Babylone versarer purpuratae meritricis essem colonâ— c. Church is not planted and gathered in all things according to Gods Word another to say it is no Church at all which is not planted and gathered in all things agreeable to the Word of God If then the meaning of the proposition be this That all true Churches planted and gathered according to Gods Word consisted of Saints onely because the ordinance of God is violated and his house polluted 〈◊〉 notorious offenders are received or tolerated the Noâ—conformists will acknowledge it But if you understand it thus That it is no true Church at all which consisteth not of Saints onely because it is not gathered planted constituted reformed in all things agreeable to the Word of God they never received it If you could not discerne this in their writings you were very blinde and partiall If you did discerne it and yet would passe it over that you might with some colour traduce them as going contrary to their owne principles or beguile others with an aequivocation where was your sincerity The Nonconformists will not deny but some things in the gathering and planting or rather the refining and government of the Church of England was and is done amisse not agreeable to the Word of God which they heartily desire and labour might be reformed but for things done amisse they dare not condemne the Church deny the grace of God separate from her communion or approve them that doe it It may be questioned also whether you dare not put a tricke upon your Reader in the phrase gathered and planted as if a church in continuance might consist of such as are not Saintâ— but if it be not gathered of such onely at the first it is no Church If this be your close intendment the proposition is farre from truth the minde of the Nonconformists and the matter in hand for in the reformation a new
Stay against straying s 13. p. 124. 125. Iere. 23.6 Prov. 5.3 Mat. 7.15 Ioh 104 5. Phil. 3 2. See Stay against Sect. 12. pag. 116 117 118 119. s â—â— p. 112 113 Ioh 4.23 Rom. 12.12 Numb 16. Isal 50.18 1 Tim. 5.22 〈◊〉 against Stray sect 6 pag. 81.82 sect 13. pag. 89. Matth. 28.19 20. Luk. 10.16 〈◊〉 Theâ—â— 2.2 3 4. Revel 13 14 9 12. 18.4 is certainly a breach of the Second Commandement For what doe they but indeed set up an Idoll yea and bow downe unto it who serve God in and by a devised and usurped Ministery In Song 1.7 8. The faithfull entreat Christ to be shewed where he by his Ministery with his Spirit Word Seales Censures c. feedeth his Flock that there they might place themselves for Instruction and Government and not turn aside to the flocks of his companions that is the congregations of false Christs and false Prophets which came in his Name saying I am Christ and deceive many Againe Ephraim is joyned to Idolls What were they among others they were Priests which Jeroboam ordained for the high Places What follows let him alone that is have no communion with him either in his false Ministery or other Idolatry Often doe the Prophets Christ and his Apostles forbid men to heare those which thrust themselves into ministeriall offices not being sent of God and from the Church To communicate in a false ministerie is to doe a vaine worship and therefore unacceptable altogether unto the Lord. In this men doe abet the party in his sin and so make it their owne by imputation and inwrap themselves in the same guilt with the offender God hath promised no blessing to his Word but in his own Ordinance though I confesse he may yea and doth grant oft times that through his infinite Godnesse which no man can challenge by an ordinary promise To doe otherwise is to rebell grievously against the Lord and to uphold what in us lyeth that which the Lord will consume therefore as no good Subject should assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civill justice to the Kings Subjects no although he administer the same never so legally justly impartially except the same person had a commission from the King so to doe so neither ought the Subjects of Christs Kingdome A dumb Mâ—â—sterâ—e being unlawfull and false is to be separated from their Ministers for the greatest part are dumb Ministers Câ—â— Necess of Separ pag. 42. to partake with any person whatsoever in the dispensation of any Spirituall ordinance though in it selfe never so holy without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and Soveraigne King of his Church Christ Jesus Such as have spirituall communion in a false Ministery doe embrace the bosome of a stranger and so commit spirituall whoredome against the Lord. Christ setteth it downe as a propertie of his sheep to be observed that they follow not strangers but flie from them for that they know not their voice ANSWER THis Reason is grounded upon the complaint which Nonconformists make of some great abuses in the Ministery but in them it is not to be understood of all Ministers Where are the words or what be they that condemne all the Ministers for some that say all Ministers are unlawfully admitted for some or that there is none good because some are bad If there be no words that carry with them any such sense then you do wrong to your brethren The Lord blesse and encrease an hundred fold the godly wise learned grave Ministers of this Church T. C. repl 1. pag. 25. And so others in their complaints are to be understood Nolo autem 〈◊〉 quis existimet per ea quae ecclesiasticorum permissa sunt me omnes prorsus ecclesiasticos nullo excepto comprehâ—ndere velle Nic. Clem. Specul Eccles nor to inferre a nullitie of the Ministery It is nor to be understood of all Ministers for amongst them there be many learned wise godly and painfull as the truth is and they acknowledge duly called and approved whose Ministerie God hath sealed and blessed It doth not inferre a nullitie of the Ministerie of others for even the idle unlearned scandalous being in the roome of Ministers are Ministers to others though not to themselves and their Ministery so long as they Minister the things of God is effectuall to the people of God If then your meaning be that the whole Ministery of the Church of England is false impure unlawfull according to the principles and complaints of the Nonconformists it is notorious If that the Ministerie of the Church of England in generall is a nullitie by reason of some maims and defects found therein which they desire might be redressed in that also you doe them apparant wrong In the Proposition as it is set down that we may understand the sense thereof two things are to be considered 1. What is meant by a false Ministerie 2. What it is to communicate in a false Ministerie In plaine and distinct dealing a false Ministery is not to be confounded with a maymed defective or impure Ministery for as the Gospel may be preached truly when it is taught impurely so may the Ministery be true for substance when it is impure in some respects But seeing in your language every unlearned scandalous negligent Minister is a false Minister and the Ministerie which he executeth is a false Ministery therefore to omit further contestation about the word It must be noted That a false Ministery is twofold 1. Absolute viz. such as is no wayes appointed of God in respect of the substance of the office whereunto he is set apart as if a Minister be called to preach pernicious and damnable doctrine or to offer Sacrifice propitiatory for quick and dead and this Ministery is a meere nullitie 2 Comparative or in some respect as that which is maymed in the qualities or care of the party chosen or designed as if a man unlearned scandalous idle be chosen if he feed not the flock or teach without power and authoritie And this Ministery is defective but of force and efficacy to the people of God for substance it is of God for the good of his flock and what is done in the administration is done by the authoritie of God but the persons themselves if in no measure qualified are not allowed and approved of God The second phrase To communicate in the false Ministery may import two things First to communicate in the sinnes of the Ministery Iniqua lex est quae se exammari non patuur Tert. in Aâ—ol Non tam vi cogere homines ad obsequium quam ratione persuadere debenteae leges quae scribuntur a pio nomotheta Dan polit Christ lib. 5. cap. 3. Course of confor pag. 149. Gratian. Decr. 1. dist 12. cap. 1. Bilson Christ Subject par 2. p. 353. 354. Quomodo vero discedimus ab impiâ—s hominibus Morum dissimilitudine Si
sayings in Jolm 10. And thus have the old Writers expounded the places as Iraeneus lib. 4. cap. 4 Clemens Alexan. lib. 1. Strom. Cypr. libs 1. Epist 6. 76. Didimus in Iohn 10. â—upert in Iolm 10. Theodoret ibid. and others But the present Ministeriâ— of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England hath not a true vocation and calling by election approbation and ordination of the Faithfull people where they Administer Therefore none must heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion with the present Ministerie of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England Which of the Propositions the Non-conformists will denie I know not but sure J am they are both theirs Howbeit it may be they doe not so well weigh their owne Principles as they should And hence it is that their practice is not so strictly answerable to their Profession and therefore doe give just occasion I speake it with griefe unto the Prelates and their Parasites to insinuate against them hypocriticall ends in condemning so grievously the Ministerie worship and government of the English Church CAN. Neces separ Epist to the Reader What better should we expect from them who seek to put out the light againe which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed unto many I know what I say and have good experience of this thing and yet to partake in the knowne evills and abuses thereof But for my part I am otherwise minded than the Bishops in this thing and doe thinke that they doe of conscience condemne the state of the Church but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their Principles For which cause I have written of purpose this Treatise to prove they cannot justifie their Tenents against that Church and stand members lawfully thereof ANSWER HANNIBAL said once saith M. Parker There was not so much as one in all the enemies campe that was called Gisco In an Epist published in the profane schis of the Brownists Parker of the Crosse part 2. c. y. §. 2. As for those of the Separation who have confuted them more than wee or who have vvritten more against them Some things of truth they hold with which we thinke it no more sinne for us now to agree than Cyprian once to agree with Novatianus in that which hee esteemed right c. So whatsoever stirre or sedition was moved by the unbeleeving Iewes it was imputed to the Iews that were Christians who were thought to be all one with them Caesar Baron Anâ—al in anno 201. The impuritie of the Gnosticks was drawne to the defamation of all other Christians no difference being made between them Cicer. Parad. 2. M Sutel tract de disc ca. 15. pag. 165. Bell of Ch. Govern cap. 12. pag. 151. 152. Bancroft tract of discip cap. 33. pag. 430. 431. 432 Laus Querim Eccles pag. 62. 63. So whereas the Egyptians were diri ventusi fa ibundi jactantes vani liberi nova um rerum cupientes the Christians and all that are there dwelling are thought to be the very same So may it truly be said now Not so much as one of the Godly Ministers that suffer in England about the Discipline that may deservedly be called a Brownist And the Nonconformists doe no more lay the grounds of Separation than the Reformed Churches sowe the seede of Libertimisme and Anabaptistrie which of all others they have most soundly confuted and judiciously laid open to the world without seeking to justifie ought that elsewhere upon good reason they condemned to be evill But it is no new thing to reproach them as the Authors of errors heresies or schismes who principally laboured the suppressing of them No man cryed downe the Errour of the Manichees concerning a good God and an evill so much as Austine and yet their opinion is charged upon them that hold his opinion of absolute Predestination The positions of the Stoicks answere to the opinions of the Remonstrants concerning Free Will and power in Man but the contrary side is burdened therewith The grounds of the Nonconformists stand directly opposite to the speciall grounds of Separation and yet they heare from some that they be Separatists in heart from others that they have laid the foundation and the Separatists build upon it and that such as have made answere to the Separatists doe against conscience put out the light which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed It is true they complaine of abuses in the Church and not to excuse humane frailty sometimes with heat and fervour excessive and humbly sue for reformation But to seek redresse of what is out of order is rather to endeavour the repaire of what is ruinous than the plucking of it down Jt is one thing dutifully to urge the proceeding of our Church unto perfection another schismatically to leave and forsake her Betwixt these two there is as much difference S. B. The rasing of the foundation c Epist to the Reader as is betweene that child that in tender affection reproveth and laboureth the reformation of his Mother whom he seeth by her indiscreet behaviour to become a reproach among women and him that under pretence of the hate of her uncomely behaviour should pluck out her bowells and forsake her They complaine of abuses remaining in the Reformation not denying that a wonderfull and gracious reformation is already made but moving to a through and perfect reformation of what is wanting and out of order For willingly they confesse that next unto the Lord God every one of them is most deeply bound unto the Kings and Princes whom he hath used as excellent instruments to deliver his Church here out of the spirituall Egypt of Poperie T.C. Repl. 1 fel. 155. This they willingly confesse before men and in their prayers daily give most humble thanks to God for And by their earnest suite and humble desires which they have for further reformation they are so farre from unthankfulnesse that they desire the heape of felicitie to the Church and Commonwealth Which of the Prophets doth not cry out against the Priests in time of the law Against their pride oppression covetousnesse tyrannie that they despised knowledge opposed the true Prophets of the Lord countenanced impietie and profanenesse and shewed themselves enemies to all goodnesse Did the Prophets then who knew what it was to worke according to their owne Principles teach a necessitie of Separation or give presidents to others to separate by their example In all ages of the Church Platina in vita Marcellin Hanc autem calamitatem quam nostri passi sunt a Deo permissam refert Euseb c. Cypr. de duplici Martyâ— Hic discrucior quod non paucos Pastores habeat ecclesia qui non solum non opponunt sua corpora adversus luporum inciersus verum etiam ipfilupos agant c. Concil Nic. 1. ca. 2. Gratian. dist 48 ca 1. Leo ad Afri an Epist. 85. Grat. dist 61. ca. 5. Hieron ad Oâ—e an ep ad Nepoti T.C.
to be planted there if hee allow maintenance for them and place such as be worthy they shall be ordained upon his Nomination And the Toletan Councel decreed That as long as the founders of Churches doe live they shall be suffered to have the chiefe and continuall care of the said Churches and shall offer fit Rectors to the Bishop to be ordained And if the Bishop neglecting the founders shall presume to place any others let him know that his admission shall be voide and to his shame but if such as they chuse be prohibited by the Canons as unworthy then let the Bishop take to promote some whom he thinketh more worthy In these particulars the coÌ„sent of the people is too much abridged as in some other particulars they tooke too much upon them or they gave their right away when yet the calling of the Minister or the office whereunto he was called in those cases was not a nullitie Jn many things saith the Councell of Paris which was the complaint of the Nicene Councell long before the old custom is neglected and the decrees of the Canons are broken But the Ministerie of the Word and Sacraments was not made voide thereby The godly learned consonant to the Scriptures have evermore distinguished betwixt an error in admission into an office and a flat nullitie of the office it selfe The Ministers election into his office Neque tamen ubique ea in parte felix fuit Ecclesia alicubi enim haeretici locum docendi adepti sunt alicubi etiam omissa accurata diligentia invocatione electione minus idonei rerum habenis sunt potiti ut Irenaeus ad Victorem scribens testatur Illiric catalog test lib. 2. tit Eccles Gubern Hatina in vita Damâ—f 2. Adeo enim inoleveraâ— hic mos ut jam cuique ambitioso liceret Petri sedem inv dere Id. in vita Benedict 4. Vbi cum ipsis opibus lascivire caepit Ecclesia Dei versis ejus cultoribus a severitate ad lisciviam c. T C. repl 1. pag. 23. Ibid. Leo. Epist. 40. Concil Niâ—â—â— 2. August oper brev collat cap 5. â—i 2 conâ—r epâ—set Parmen ca. 13. Georg. Pâ—nce Anâ—t sol 66. ought to be according to the Rules of the Word before he enter into the Ministerie he should be blamelesse apt to teach sound in Faith and much more is he to approve himself to be such a one in the execution considering that falls in the execution are much more dangerous to the Church than before But defects in the election doe not make the calling it selfe utterly unlawfull If one blame-worthy be elected or tolerated after he is not to be reputed as one that ministers altogether without a calling Therefore the Non-conformists never taught that the Minister is not to be heard or that wee must not hold communion with him in the Ordinances of Worship who is not elected and ordained by the societie where he is to administer though they maintain the consent of the people to be essentiall to the full compleat call of a Minister to that place and people Thus they doe professe in answere to this and such like accusations Where saith T.C. doe they reason thus The Word of God is not preached because the Mnisters are not rightly proved and elected c. Is it all one to say it is not purely preached it is not truly preached c. They nver said that there is no Ministerie in England nor yet doe ever conclude that there is no Word nor Sacraments nor Discipline nor Church Herein they affirme or teach nothing but what the godly learned in all ages have acknowledged Anatolius consecrated of Dioscorus was approved of Leo and Tharasius The Orthodox Fathers professed so the Donatists would returne to the Catholike true and Apostolicall Faith or Doctrine they would not disallow their Bishops that they might understand saith Augustine that Catholikes did not detest Christian consecration but humane errour We use this moderation saith George Prince Anhalt That they who are called forth to Parochiall offices if they promise that they for the time to come will preach the Word purely and administer the Sacraments according to Christs institution we receive them Horumque contenti vocatione See Grat. Decret 2 part ca. 2. Qu. 7. ca. 8.18 19 20. ca. 1. qu. 1. ca. 52. Socrat. hist. l. 1. ca. 9. Art Smal. par 3. art 10. Stay §. 11. p. 133. Par. in Heb. 5.4 Stay §. 4. p. 30. Par. in Rom. 10.14 15. Legitima autem vocatio ecclesiae est quae in quâvis ecclesiâ publica authoritate ordinis causâ ad aedificationem instituta Dan. in 1. Tim 5. pag. 363.364 pag. 343. Stay §. 4. pag. 30. §. 11. pag. 113. For. Iren. l. 2. cap. 11 prop. 13. tit de Haeretic Certe ad agnoscimus de omnibus clericis haereticis quoad jus liciti exercitii quoad alios uâ—ab corum communione abstincant cis non obediant sed non est accipiendum de onmibus haereticis quoad valorem exercitii in Sacramentorum administratione licet iniustae eorum censurae etiaÌ„ ipso iure nullae sint muneris demandati commissione ordinationem manus impositionem non iteremus So Art Smal. Si. Episcopi suo officio recte fungerentur cur am ecclesiae Evangelii gererent c. Pareus is praysed by your self as an interpreter one of a thousand and oft cited by you in this matter as one that condemneth the hearing of them that are unlawfully sent But according to Pareus He is lawfully sent who is called according to the order which is instituted by publique authoritie in every Church for order sake and to edification Danaeus sharply taxeth the manner of calling Ministers which be conceived to be in use in England and is againe and againe alledged by you in this question but he doth admonish withall that we must distinguish betweene a calling maimed and none at all Ex his autem omnibus saith hee apparet quam nulla sit vel non legitima eorum verbi Dei Ministrorum vel ecclesiae Pastorum vocatio qui solius regis vel reginae vel patroni vel episcopi vel Archiepiscopi authoritate diplomate bullis jussu judicio fit vel eligitur Id quod dolendum est adhuc fieri in iis ecclesiis quae tamen purum Dei verbum habent sequuntur veluti in media Anglia Nam Anglos homines alio qui sapientissimos acutissimos pientissimos in istis tamen papisticae idololatriae tyrannidis reliquiis agnoscendis tollendis scientes prudentesque caecutire mirum est Itaque praeclare sentiunt qui omnem illam chartulariam episcopaticam curionum pastorum Ecclesiae creandorum rationem item ex solo episcopi consensu diplomate ministrorum verbi caelestis vocationem approbationem inaugurationem damnant tollendamque ex reformata ad Dei verbum Ecclesiâ censent quòd ordo Dei verbo praescriptus
Christum And a little after to Bellarmine objecting the dangers which may follow in popular elections hee answereth The danger is not so great ubi conjunctus est Clerus actionem dirigit Presbyterium praesertim consilio auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum Ecclesiarum accedente And after that Et boni vicini quoque accedant ex ordine Not. 27. fratres alti ex communi officio charitatis si quando opus est prout Ambrosium fecisse Nediolanensi Ecclesiae narrat Theodor. hist lib. 4. cap. 7. In the Primitive times one Church might elect and chuse a Pastor for another and the Governours of one Church were chosen by the confent and suffrage of others Ignatius writeth thus to the Philadelphians It behoveth you as the Church of God to chuse a Bishop Of what Church would Ignatius have the Philadelphians to chuse a Bishop Not of their owne The Church of Christ was guided by the common conâ—enâ— and mutuall agreement of both parts as well East as West as a peares in the case of Athanasiu◠〈…〉 Arian Haec quidem Aegyptii ad omnes ad episcopum Romanâ—â— Iâ—l um scripsâ—â—e 〈◊〉 apol 2. Sozom l. 3. c. 7.10 11. Ignat. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theod. l. 2. ca. 4. Basil Ep. 48. 〈◊〉 Athan. â—1 occiden◠〈…〉 69. 〈◊〉 Gallis 70. Gall. et Jtal. epâ—se 74. occident ep se See 〈◊〉 〈…〉 Or to fend some sufficient legate to heale the breach that was made and quench the flame that was kindled in his Church at Antioch 〈…〉 Govern ca. 7. pa. 76. 〈…〉 13. Cyyrian meant this of such mutuall aâ—d and concord as might profit the Church and well beseem the servants of Christ but allows not that men should run to 〈◊〉 for helpe against the judgement and acts of their Pastors Cypr. 〈◊〉 Epist 3. 4. for in the beginning of his Epistle he greatly commendeth the Bishop which they had already But he exhorteth them to elect a Pastor of the Church at Antioch as the words before going doe make it evident All Bishops saith Cyprian sunt mutuae comcordiae glutine copulatae that if any one hold haeresie the rest should helpe and therefore he moved Stephanus the Pope to write to the Bishops in France that they should depose the Bishop of Arles and to the people that they should chuse another in his roome Theod. l. 5. c. 23. Cypr. l. 4. epist. 8. See Iun. Eccles l 3. c. 1 Amb epist 82. See what Socrates reporteth of the election of Chrysost Socr. hist l. 6. ca. 2. Theod. hist l. 4. c. 6 See Theod. bust l. 5. c. 8. Sozom. l. 7. c. 8. Socr. l. 6. c. 2. Iun. eccles l. 3. c. 1. Erat sanetum talis politia in Ecclesia sicut membrorum in uno corpore ubi omnia uni compatiuntur prespuiunt medentur Illitici catal test lib. 2. p. 109. Theodoret testifieth In the ordination of a Bishop All the Bishops of a Province ought to be called together Cornelius Bishop of Rome was confirmed of the Bishops of Africk Gregorius Presbyter in the life of Nazianzene affirmeth of the Bishops of Macedonia and Egypt that they contradicted the election of Nazianzene because he was made Bishop before they came Ambrose writeth That his election was confirmed of all the Bishops of the East and West and Theodoret That Valentinian the Emperor confirmed it also Election therefore was not ever made by the particular congregation where the Pastor or Teacher was to administer but other Churches and specially the Guides by common consent were called to assist the Church in that weighty businesse And this the Non-conformists judge not only lawfull but meet expedient necessary in some cases And therefore in many particulars they except against the proposition as none of theirs and against your confident assertion that you were sure the propositions were both theirs when as it is neither found in them nor in any writer ancient or moderne nor in the holy Scriptures And when you peruse the testimonies alledged Rhemists annot in Ioh. 10. §. 1. be judge your selfe whether you did not grossely mistake or abuse your Reader when you cite the Rhemists as if they pleaded for the Parochial election of a Pastour as onely lawfull As for the Assumption It is true the Ministers of the Church of England are not ordained by the particular Congregations where they administer nor is it necessarie to a true and entire calling that it should be so That they be not approved of the particular society is false in many of them for they are chosen by their consent to be their Ministers though not absolutely to the Ministerie it selfe And in case they be not so called it is a maime and defect Parker de polit Eccl l. 1. c. 14. Deducere quidem conantur illi ex majoribus nostris minores quasdam sed absurdas inconsequentes Neque enim si necessaria disciplina sit in verbo Dei tradita idcirco separatio sicubi corrumpatur sacienda sâ—atim est nulla connexionis vi hoc porisina sequitur which should be reformed whether it be through the ignorance of the people or the Lawes of the Kingdome or the pride and covetousnesse of them that thrust themselves into that calling or neglect of Patrons or what else soever But this maime doth not make a nullitie of their calling nor the Word and Sacraments dispensed by them to be ineffectuall For in every Church where the doctrine of salvation is soundly and intirely preached and professed the calling of the Ministerie is for substance true and lawfull The Nonconformists therefore in reproving the abuses of the Ministerie and yet holding communion with the Church of England in the ordinances of worship See Calvin Instit l. 4. c. 1. §. 12 13 14 15 c. doe walke according to their own Principles the doctrine and practice of the Churches of God in all ages and direction of the holy Scritures The Non-conformists reprove the tumults of the people in election without the direction of the Presbyters Whitak de pont Rom. contr 4. qu. 1. c. 2 p. 16. Iâ—a v. admissa est populi multitudo ut vitaretur omnis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ne ecclesia esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ut Act. 19.32 Bilson perpet Gov. Epist to the Read Right Apostolick Bishops were such as were left or sent by the Apostles to be Pastors of the Church and Governors of the Presbyteries in every city that beleeved so long as they ruled well and in their stead as their successors to receive charge of ordaining others for the worke of the Ministerie and guiding the Keyes with the advice and consent of such as laboured with them in the Word and Doctrine Id. ca. 4. Without proofe the Church must not beleeve nor regard thy speech and proofe thou hast none One and the same person cannot be both Accusant and Deponent and in
the mouth of one witnesse though his testimony were received yet may no man be condemned See Beza annot Maier in Matth. 18.7 both their owne and Neighbouring Churches so did the Ancients The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone or their Chaplaines and that of many at a clap so did the Ancients The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their knowledge or consent so did the Ancients The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge so did the Ancients The ignorance idlenesse pride luxurie pompe covetousnesse contention and schisme of such as thrust themselves rashly ambitiously profanely into offices by favour monie flatterie or other corruption so did the Ancients They reprove these and such like abuses and humbly seek and sue for reformation but tolerate what they cannot amend and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion and so did the Ancients And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separation nor walke contrary to their owne Principles in holding communion it is great ignorance at least to charge the Nonconformists as if they walked not according to their owne rules when they doe not separate Nay if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation they should not walke agreeable to their owne Principles or the truth of Scripture For you hold the power of the keyes originaliter and executivè is given to the community of the faithfull many or few yea though but two or three joyned together in a Church way This the Nonconformists approve not You hold it is necessary and essentiall to the calling of a Minister that he be approved chosen and ordained only by that congregation where he is to administer This the Nonconformists altogether dislike You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your forme propounded to be unlawfull Idol Antichristian Ministers This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian The consequence of your Positions is this That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth there was scarce a true lawfull Ministerie to be found where with the faithfull might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God This the Non-conformists doe detest and abhorre Of other your positions in the Sections following SEC III. CAN. Stay against Stray Sect. 1. pag. 4 5. WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his Word But it is not mentioned there that Beleivers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers The proposition is unquestionably certaine by these Scriptures Psal 19.7 2 Tim. 3.15.16 Isai 8.20 Ioh. 15.17 Act. 20.27 Besides Contra Gentes this is the unanimous consent of learned writers The Scriptures saith Athanasius doe helpe us with the knowledge of every truth c. The first part which is only controversall is evident and cleere Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19. by these Scriptures Levit. 17.3.4 Deut. 12.5 Prov. 5.8 Hos 4.15 Matth. 7.15 2 Cor. 7.15 16 17. Rev. 18.4 Song 1.6 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent Zanch. on Phil. 3.2 The Authors of the Admonition pag. 27 c. Yea the Papists themselves Rhemists and Doway Translators ANSWER THe sinewes of this Argument are cut already in the first Section if ever it had any and therefore a few words may now suffice In this reason you take for granted that which is most false little lesse than blasphemie to wit that all Ministers in the Church of England be Antichristian For they are in respect of the substance of their office the Ministers of Jesus Christ set apart to preach the Gospel dispense the Sacraments and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ and many of them the approved servants of Christ furnished with gifts from above sent forth by authoritie to preach the Gospel of God and dispense his Sacraments which they faithfully execute according to commission received from their Lord and Master the King of the Church who worketh by them and blesseth their labours if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speake of and rejoyce in the blessing of God to the praise of his name But to let that passe Antichristian Teachers if I must speak in your owne language be of divers sorts 1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platforme or at least whose calling is in any respect maymed or defective though they be godly learned painfull every way fit set apart by authority and approved by the Church If Antichristian Teachers be taken in this sense true Beleevers living in societies with them are bound to heare the Word and partake in the Sacraments because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus who is present knocking at the doore of the heart and will come in and sup with them that open unto him So long as wee teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did we have the same povver and authority to Preach which they had Bâ—s Chrill 〈◊〉 part 3. p. â— Look what reasons soever can be alledged to prove that Christians ought to joyne together in holy communion the same will strongly convince that ordinarily or occasionally we must hold societie with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and godlinesse And if this Ministerie be Antichristian divers if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ that have withstood Antichrist unto blood have stood under some ordinances in their first originall Antichristian or of men in some respects which did not overthrow though it might be some blemish unto their Ministerie 2. Such as be not rightly called by men because not rightly furnished with gifts or faithfully executing their place or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men but yet set apart to an office which is of God and in communion of men professing the true Faith are called Antichristian Ministers And if it be taken in this sense the faithfull are bound in conscience to heare such if they live in their societies because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort though they be not approved of him and doe his worke for the good of them that be heires of salvation But in so doing they doe not communicate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasie but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance by such meanes as he hath appointed Hieron l. 1. Com in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1. Hierome noteth that there are foure sorts who are employed in the businesses and affaires of Almighty God The first such as are sent neither of men nor by men but by Jesus Christ The second such as are sent of God but by man The third are such as are sent of man and not of God who are they that are ordained by favour of Men not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling Who yet are not simply denyed to be sent of God as if they had not commission from him but
same I leave it to your conscience to judge This is sure neither Scripture nor Author cited doth speake with you in that matter but plainly professe that it was unlawfull because it was expresly forbidden That exercise saith Zanchie did seeme praise-worthy to the Israelites and yet it is to play the harlot Why because it is sacriledge to depart from the Word of the Lord. But the Word of the Lord had commanded that they should worship the Lord only at Ierusalem and by such rites as hee had instituted The Kings who are commended in Scripture who yet tooke not away the high places as Asa Jehosaphat Amasias Azarias and Jothian they were not commended for suffering the high places but that they were constant in faith and religion although they fell into some peculiar sins But withall the abuse of the high places in the worship of God was no light sin but very grievous because it was properly and expresly against the divine law and precept As for the ten Tribes who departed from the house of David they shined grievously in that they worshipped the Calves and that in a place of worship elected of themselves contrary to the word of God leaving and forsaking that place which the Lord bad chosen to himselfe They professed the true God and turned not aside to the gods of the Heathen and in that respect are called the house and family of the Lord 2 King 10.16.31 Hos 9 15. 1 King 12.31 Lev. 17.7 Hebr. Sep. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iun. demonibus Deu. 32.17 1 Cor. 10.10 Ex. 32.1.8 Acts 7.41 1 Cor. 10.7 1 King 12.28 and 14.9 2 Chron. 11.15 Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 See Ainsw Annot. in Lev. 17.7 et Iun. ibid. Rainold de Idolola l. 2. c. 3. Isa 44. Qu. Co. pag. 61. CAN Sta. §. 3 pag. 18. Babingt in Lev. 17. See Iun. in Lev. 17.3 4 11. But as they sacrificed at Bethel and committed Idolatry in worshipping the Calves so their service was abominable and their Priesthood appointed for that service a meer nullitie and humane device Thus all the Jewes and Gentiles are said to sacrifice unto Divels who sacrificed in such sort and place as God had forbidden especially it they sacrificed unto Idols though in them they sacrificed unto the true God in their imagination as the Israelites had done when they made the golden Calse and sacrificed unto it and Ieroboams Idols are called Divels and he is said to make Priests for the high places and for Divels Further this Ordinance of God was typicall and did shadow forth Christ as the learned do observe and not without ground and warrant All Altars Sacrifices Priests and the Temple it selfe where the Altar stood were but types and shadowes of Christ You your selfe cite out of Bishop Babington that hereby was signified that only in the Church by faith in the chiefe high Priest Christ Jesus sacrifice and service accepted of God is and can be offered and done and no where els By the erudiments saith another Christ was shadowed among the Jewes and expiation made on the crosse by his blood From hence briefly let these things be observed 1 That the Jewes sinned by facrificing in the high places and the Israelites at Dan and Bethel because God had forbidden it expresly but against communicating in our assemblies no such prohibition can be brought forth which haply might bee the reason why you had rather say because they had no divine precept for it than because it was forbidden which yet you know to bee most certaine 2 Though it bee not lawfull to communicate with the people of God in their sins yet wee may partake in the ordinances of worship with such as offend grievously in the worship of God as the Prophets and faithfull communicated in the ordinances of God at Jerusalem with them that sacrificed upon the high places 3. That in Idolatrous and false Churches that which is meerely of men is vaine and fruitlesse and a meere nullitie but if among them something which is of God remaine it is not to bee esteemed a thing of nought 4 Wee must neither forsake all societies wherein wee espie many things repugnant to the Word of God nor cast off every thing in those societies wherewith we must not hold communion as false vaine and ineffectuall In Idolatrous societies Cyp. lib. 1. c. 4. The people must not partake with the sacrifice of a sacrilegious Priest there may be some truth which I must not cast away though I must not hold society in their Idolatry In the true Churches of Christ there may be diverse errors and abuses wherewith I must not communicate though I must live and hold fellowship in the society I am bound to keepe the unity of that living body S. B. Second ansvver pag. 20. whereof I am a member even with some inconvenience of sickenesse and unsound parts but I must not joyne my selfe to a strange body and so become a member of Satan 5. They that communicate in the Worship of God in our Assemblies doe neither bring a strange oblation nor goe to a place forbidden for the worship is of God and the Congregation assembled in his Name and he is there present to feast them that draw nigh unto him in truth of heart Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 19. Ought we not to beleeve that as God had commanded us to worship Him that is to heare his Word receive the Sacraments and to use other His Ordinances so Hee hath also called and separated unto himselfe a Church a Communion of Saints and holy ones in and amongst whom these holy things are to be used and that we are to looke in what fellowship wee receive the holy things of God as what the things are we doe receive In a word ought we not to be perswaded that as the legall Sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple within whose circle they were prescribed by the mouth of God were unlawfully offered so all the Ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospell done out of a true constituted Church are altogether and every way sinfull Deut. 12.5 6 7. ANSWER God hath separated unto himselfe a Church and amongst them hee is to bee worshipped according to his owne appointment But this Church is of larger extent than that which you call a true constituted Church wee reade that the Lord did chuse a certaine place for sacrifices Deut. 12.5 6 7. after which it was unlawfull to sacrifice in any other and so we read also that the remaindes of the Paschall Lamb was to be burnt and the flesh of the Ramme of Consecration with the bread that remained unto the morning Exod. 12.10 Exod. 29.34 Levit. 15.19 I yeeld the Scripture a witnesse of my sense and my exposition without the Scripture let it bee of no credit Orig. Hom. 9 in Jer. CAN. Necess of separ pag. 2 11. Can. Stay Epistle to the Reader Iohn 2.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 So
one being knowne the nature of the other may be knowne whether it be or be not whether it may bee or may not bee Wee know likewise that not only good is opposed to evill but evill to evill as covetousnesse to prodigality and this the Philosopher himselfe confesseth So that these propositions must be rightly limited or they are both false Par. in Rom. 10.15 Legitima Vo atio ecclesiae est quae in quavis Ecclesia publica authoritate or dinis causa ad aedisicationeÌ„ instituta Neque umformis est omnium ubique quead circumst intias exterâ—â—s sed libertati Ecclesiae relacta These Philosophicall Rules are impertinently alledged by you for the externall order or government and intire profession of faith are not opposite they may be separated in part and they may and ought to be joyned together The faith and doctrine strictly taken may be intire when the externall order is pure and holy and the order may be maimed and defective when the doctrine is found in points fundamentall And the doctrine may bee very corrupt and rotten when the externall order is observed according to the rule and therefore a Church may be true in doctrin and profession of faith strictly taken when for matters of order it labours under great defects though in respect of outward order and government it cannot be the true Church when it destroyeth the foundation of the faith For if the faith bee taught intirely Rivet in Hosea 4.6 Etsi ad ordinatienem externam nihil ijs deesset se pro sacerdotibus gererent tameÌ„ illos reijeit Dominus Sic Pontificiorum sacerdotes adhuc retinenâ— aliquam ministerij formam externam c. CAN. Stay Sect. 11 page 115. and the Sacraments rightly administred it cannot be but the ministerie in that Church must bee true for substance what other defects soever it labour under But if the foundation of faith be overthrowne or the ministery whereunto men be set apart be strange and meerely devised there can be no true calling or ministery but false and impure If this distinction of a true Church and Ministery for substance of Doctrine in points fundamentall and externall calling and government be denyed absolutely I shall desire you to unty a Knot or two which your selfe have knit The Scribes and Pharisees were blind guids corrupt Teachers false Prophets in respect of their doctrine covetous ambitious and otherwise prophane in respect of their conversation upon what grounds then were they to bee heard because they were called and ordained of God CAN. Stay Sect. 3 page 60. Ier. 2.11 13. 3.8 9 10 11. Ezek. 16.47 48 49 Mat. 11.21 22 2 Chro. 11.13 14. 1 Reg. 12. Hosea 4.6 9. 5.1 â— Reg. 19.10 18 2 Reg. 17.28 Par. in Rom. 11.2 3 4 Dub. 3. Samaria etiam erat de Iudaeorum sâ—nagoga l. cet corruptissimâ— Apostatica Siquidem Jfraelitae ctiam crant de popu o praecogniâ—o alioqui Elias Elizaeus al iâ— prâ—phetae ibi non docuissent that they should preach the Law o God in the Synagogues to the people and exhort them to the observation thereof Is not here the distinction of true and false Teachers in diverse respects Rebellious Indah justified her sister Samaria in some respects and in some other continued the true Church of God From the time that the tenne Tribes departed from the Lord his Temple Paiests Altar c. it was unlawfull to hold communion with them because they committed Iâ—olatry and willfully left the place which the Lord appropriated for his service and sacrifice but still they retained something of a Church and were not to be esteemed altogether as heathens as the very places quoted doe tâ—stifie That the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Betheâ— when they committed reall Idolatry with the Calves played the Harlot upon every high hill and under every green Tree forsooke wilfully the place which God had appointed for sacrifice and offered sacrifices in places forbidden rejected the Lords Priests and made of the basest of the people-Priests for that service which the Lord abhorred that they were not more corrupt in Doctrine and worship than the Church of England by the confession of Non conformists is an assertion beyond all credit I may fitly put you in mind what Origen saith of Celsus his workes CAN. Stay Sect. 5 page 39. which you apply to your adversary There is no danger least any faithfull man should bee subverted by your sayings for you talke but reason not yea in your talke you keep no compasse but all men may feele how grossely you mistake Master Ainsworths Arrow against Idolatry I have not seene nor know not how to come by it But if you will bring forth his or your owne darts in this kinde they shall bee tryed and examined by the Word of God You are not afraid not ashamed to write that the Non-conformists affirme the worship of our English Assemblies to be as false and idolatrous as the worship of the Israelites at Dan and Bethel But for proofe you bring the bare testimony of one alone and him no English Non-conformist And if his testimony had been truly alledged can you with truth and honesty charge that upon all which you know is disclaimed by many spoken only by one and he no member of the English societies But that one shamefully abused likewise for when he saith the Idolatry of these times doth equall if not exceed that of Ieroboam he intends the Idolatry of the Romish Synagogues but accuseth not the English Congregations as if they stood guilty of that sin or the like degree For he acknowledgeth the Church of England to be a glorious reformed Church though in some things not throughly reformed as she ought Course of confor page 142. Wherefore saith he for conforming to a glorious Church but in that wherein shee was never raformed And what wonder if all the reformed Churches crept not forth of the Romish deluge equally accomplished Course of confor page 183 What greater wonder than that any should be found free of the smell of that Wine of Fornication whereof they all for so many yeeres were drunke Your pen runneth over almost every where with pernitious I dolatry Aug. Ep. 48. Quis non impudentissine nitatur alie uid in allegoria positum prose interpretari nisi haheat manifesta testimonia quâ—â— lumne 〈…〉 obscura blasphemy and such like out-cries and for colour of what you say pretend the names of men who indeed and truth from their hearts detest your rashnesse and inconsideratnes Whereas if you would be perswaded to talke lesse and reason more and give milder words and bring stronger arguments and deale sincerely in the testimonies which you use you should ease your reader and spare your Conscience SECTION 5. Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag 37.38 THe Word preached by false Ministers is not that word unto which God hath promised a blessing of encrease Or it is not
the ordinary way and meanes Id. Sect. 15. p. 132. which the Scripture speakes of to beget men to the faith For as a false forged constitution makes a Church a reall and substantiall Idoll So all that comes from it is touched with the Idolatry of that constitution This is a ruled opinion of many Divines The State makes all the publike actions to be formally good or evill For as the Temple sanctifieth the gold Matth. 23.17 the Altar the offerings so the Ordinances of the Church under the Gospell are sanctified unto us Bucer in Mat. 23.17 That is as Bucer truely speaketh in the use of them made lawfull to us in that they have their rise from a true and right power Seeing therefore the Church in Question wants a right Constitution it must follow that all spirituall actions done in it whether Prayer Preaching Sacraments Censures as they are there done are none of Gods Ordinances though true it is in themselves they are of God If the false Churches of whom we disputed CAN. Stay Sect. 15. p. 131.132 Id. Sect. 2. p. 8. be that spirituall Babylon mentioned in the Revelation cap. 18.4 then it is unlawfull for Gods people to goe unto them to performe any spirituall or religious action and so consequently not to heare theâ—e But the first is true Ergo the later is true also The proposition needs no proofe because our opposites and we herein are of opinion alike The assumption is manifest by these reasons Artopaeus in Rev. 18. pag. 198. Flac. Illyric in Rev. 18.4 Par. com in Hos 4. pag. 506. Bulling in Apoc. ca. 18. con 76. 1. The words in the Text prove it plainely Come out of her my people that is remove your selves from all false assemblies covenant together to walk in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come But repent rather that yee have suffered your Consciences to bee wrought upon by any unlawfull Officers And thus doe the Learned interpret the place namely of such a coming out as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship 2 Cor. 6.1 Ioh. 5.21 Zech. 11.17 Botlac prompt allegoriar cap. 21. de Minist It is like that filthy bird which carryeth this Motto Contactu omnia saedat The publisher and others with him have comitted appatant Idolatry maintained it in the Church and sought thereby to pervert the right wayes of the Lord. Jd. sect 1. p. 7. Id sect 15. p. 133. A false Church state is rightly likened to the leprosie spread in the wals of the houses of the Lepers because of the pollution which it causeth to the persons and things Take for instance a Citie or Towne if the civill State or Corporation which they have be usurped aevised or derived from a false power all their publike administrations are unlawfull and every one partaking thereof offendeth So all administrations done in a false Church whether prayer Preaching Sacraments Censures are uncleane actions and doe defile every receiver J say because of the Idoll State which is devised out of a mans braine and used as a meanes to serve God in it and by it All the Ordinances done after the invention and will of Antichrist can no otherwise be judged than a brood common to the nature of the breeders that is the Devill and the Whore of Rome the Father and Mother that did beget them ANSWER THe Faithfull are commanded to come out of spirituall Babylon and not to communicate with her in false worship or Idolatry Revel 18.4 as the Text doth confirme and your opposites grant And therein it was needlesse to muster up the testimonies of the Learned to give evidence in a case maintained and practised notoriously sc that we must flye from the society of Rome and not be present to behold their worship Your labour herein is superfluous but that the Names of Learned men here numbred up might serve to cover your nakednesse when you come to the point in controversie wherein you prove just nothing at all But our Churches wherein the Gospell of Christ is purely preached and professed in all points fundamentall the seales of the Covenant of Grace rightly administred who are separaced from spirituall Babylon in mind and body and have fled from her worship and Idolatry who are built upon Christ the true and firme foundation of his Church and by Christ himselfe acknowledged for his people and graced with his favourable presence Our Churches I say cannot be deemed or reputed spirituall Babylon without great injurie to Christ his truth his Church and Saints By spirituall Babylon in this booke of the Revelation is meant Rome Christian departed from the faith guilty of the blood of Saints stained with manyfold and fearfull Idolatries the mother of fornications who hath made drunke the Kings of the earth with the cup of her poysons as might bee confirmed by the Scripture it self the joynt consent of learned orthodox Divines and the testimonie of Papists themselves But to brand the Churches of Christ since the reformation who have renounced Antichrists doctrine worship and idolatries and embraced the intire faith of the Lord Jesus with that odious hatefull name is contrary to the truth of God evident reason and the judgement of all approved godly learned men You miserably corrupt and pervert the Text when you give this to be the sense thereof Remove your selves from all false Assemblies covenant together to walke in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come This is not to interpret Scripture and learne of them what wee are to thinke but to racke Scriptures to our sense and make them speake according to our fansies which is an high point of Antichristianisme If you will stand to your principles within two hundred yeares after Christ or lesse there was not one true Christian societie in the whole world which did walke together in all the wayes of God and serve God in a Church state among themselves And will you say the faithfull are charged of God in this passage of holy writ to remove and separate from all Christian assemblies that then were in the world and to serve God among themselves If corruption in doctrine manners worship government and orders make a false assembly Rome was a false assembly long before the Lord gave commandement to his people to depart thence and separate themselves Israel for a time continued in Egypt and Babylon viz. untill the Lord sent to bring them forth and the Church lay hid in Babylon and that by the providence and approbation of God long after Rome was miserably corrupted and defiled The matter is notorious and therefore to spend more words about it is needlesse Hee that considereth the state of things long before the faithfull separated from Rome and what is written in defence of that separation which
If the Church of Rome were not a Church in some respects but a meere Idoll the Pope could not be that Antichrist a principall rebell a notorious traitor against Christ If we speak absolutely or compare Rome with Churches truly Christian it is no true Church but the Synagogue of Satan But if we speake of it in opposition to the Jewes of Turkes or other professed Infidels it hath so much of a visible Church as a man cannot say it is no Church at all so much true doctrine is in it as sufficeth to support the title of Antichrist and some ordinances are so administred as that it cannot be said they are meer nullities In the true Church many wicked ones are found that are no lesse prophane sacrilegious enemies to peace the vassals of Satan possessed by the Divell dead in sin and accursed of God than heretiks or schismatiks who yet for that they have that order office or degree of ministerie which is holy doe no lesse nor with lesse effect administer the holy sacraments than those who are the samplars of all pietie and vertue The faithfull and holy Ministers administer and receive the Sacraments with good profit and benefit to themselves and others The hypocriticall with benefit to others not to themselves The prophane being not put from their places doe officiate with hurt to themselves scandall to others but to the everlasting comfort of them that partake worthily The hereticall and idolatrous administer the Sacraments that are holy and in their owne nature the meanes pledges and assurances of salvation but without benefit to themselves and others that continue in sin Thus the Prophets Apostles Martyrs and faithfull have held communion in the Ordinances of grace with such whose calling and conversation was not approved of God You say the Martyrs first and last would not receive this distinction lest to save their lives they should lose their soules and you reckon up many who as you write would rather give their bodies to the fire than heare or receive the Sacrament in false Churches or Societies But in this you lavish as in every thing else and hide the truth under the ambiguitie of the phrase The Martyrs laid downe their lives rather than they would defile themselves with idolatry bee present at the Masse or joyne themselves as members of that Antichristian Synagogue in all which they did as becommeth the faithfull servants of Jesus Christ But you cannot produce one Martyr of your opinion who denyed that any thing of God was to be found in those Assemblies or that refused to joyne in the pure ordinances of God with Societies separated from spirituall Babylon because of some defect or may me in their Church constitution In the whole Catalogue of Martyrs try if you can bring forth one who in these things was of your minde And what a vaine thing is it to pretend the example of all the Martyrs when there is not one among them that doth approve your cause If the example of the Martyrs be of any weight with you as here you beare the Reader in hand CAN Neces of separation p. 190 191 192. of necessitie you must condemne your rash and presumptuous censuring your unadvised sinfull separation from the worship and ministerie in our Church as Antichristian and Idolatrous For certaine it is the Martyrs stood members of our Societies and dyed in the defence of that doctrine and worship which we professe and practise Many words you spend in answer to this reason and reproaches you cast upon your adversarie but one word is not to be found that makes directly to take away the force of the Argument It was the answer of Frederick Duke of Saxonie who being prisoner to Charles the fifth and promised releasement if hee would goe to the Masse Summum in terris Dominum agnosco Caesarem in coclis Christum The like did the Prince of Condee but neither of them did refuse to joyne with the reformed Churches because they deemed their Church constitution defective or erroneous in this or that particular To pretend the consent of popish and protestant Divines in this matter is egregious ignorance or impudency for it is well knowne they are all generally of another minde Your instance from a City or Towne Similitudes bee no syllogismes Earthly similitudes of your making may not controll the heavenly precepts of Gods owne giving Bilson Christ part 4. pag. 322. Have you no surer ground of your catholike doctrine for adoring Images than a single similitude taken from the civill and externall reverence that is yeelded to Princes seates and seales Id p. 329. if the Civill power be usurped is not to the purpose nor true in all respects Not to the purpose because what is of God in these Societies is not done by power meerely usurped but by power and vertue from God though in the ministration that which is evill be not approved of God for wheresoever any supernaturall truth of Christian Religion is taught and any ordinances of grace dispensed truly for substance there is some truth of ministery though many wayes polluted And where the intire faith is professed and received and the ordinances of grace administred truly there is a true ministery for substance ordained of God what other defects or maimes soever it may labour under Not true because in the Civill estate That which is done by power usurped and unlawfull in some cases is a nullitie but in other some it is available and stands in force For it is a rule in the Civill law That it is one thing to be a true Magistrate another to bee in the Magistracy or to execute the Magistrates office From which distinction is gathered this generall ruled case or sentence That the acts of him that was a false or unlawfull Magistrate may be lawfull and just And the same may bee said and was ever held in the Church of God of corrupt and ungodly Ministers though they bee not true Ministers that is approved fit and rightly qualified yet so long as they be in the place of Ministers the acts of their ministery be good that is effectuall and of force if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by Christ CAN Stay Sect. 15. pag 133. The Lord hath not promised to them his blessing and acceptance what the Lord may accept or will we dispute not only this I say whosoever heareth in a false Church cannot by any promise that he hath in the word of God expect Gods blessing on that which he doth the reason is because a true constitution of a true Church that is where men are gathered according to the Gospell of Christ is that only lawfull religious societie or communion of Saints wherein God will be honoured whereby hee will bee served and whereto hee hath promised his presence and acceptance so then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church necessitate medii as if Gods grace were tyed to the meanes this way
yet as they say in Schooles necessitate praecepti if we consider Gods commandement CAN Stay §. 3. pag. 59. so we are bound to Church hearing only in a true Church and in no other Church can we expect Gods presence promise and acceptance Such Churches unto whom God hath made no promise in his word to blesse the things there done ought not by Gods people to be resorted to but God in his word hath made no promise to blesse the things done in a false church therefore Gods people are not to goe unto false churches The proposition cannot be excepted against for 1. The Scriptures prove it clearly Jer. 23.21 22. Exodus 20 24. Psalme 134.3 and 147.13 Again there is no dutie charged upon us but there is a blessing promised unto the due performance of it The assumption is as cleare and thus wee prove it If false churches have not the promise of Gods presence they cannot from the word of God expect his blessing upon what they doe but the first is true Ergo the second The Major which is only controversall we prove thus If every false church be an Idoll Exod. 20.4 5. And God require his people to come out thence Rev. 18.4 threatned to destroy it Rev. 20.8 9. and will doe it and promise his presence unto his true church Mat. 18.20 Then he is not present in the false But the first is true therefore the second ANSWER You struggle hard as all men may perceive but set not one foot forward Our Church is an idoll therefore wee must not hold communion with it God hath promised no blessing to his ordinances therein because the Church is an Idoll This is your circle wherein you walke up and down But to helpe you out of this mire if it may be 1. Rom. 3.2 Can 1.6 Rain de idolola l. 2. c. 1. p. 2. Where you take it for granted that our Church is false and therfore Christ is not present with us we on the contrary are assured that we are a people in covenant with Christ to whom hee hath committed his heavenly oracles and seales of the covenant amongst whom he feedeth his flock in greene pastures and causeth them to lye downe by the still waters with whom he is present when they meet together Mat. 18.20 Exod. â—0 24 Psal 134.3 Ioh. 10.4.5 He hath set up his tabernacle amongst us and dwelleth with us and watcheth over us and worketh by his Ministers not only to call men unto salvation but to nourish and build them forward unto life everlasting We are separated from Idols wee heare the voice of the true shepheard and follow not strangers but fly from them we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation and worship him sincerely according to his will He standeth at the doore knocking and to such as open unto him hee commeth unto them and they sup with him and he with them And therefore Christ is our Shepheard our King our Saviour and of his rich grace and love doth embrace us as his people and the flock of his pasture beareth our prayers and accepteth our service This is our glory that Christ is ours and we are his and it were better for us to dye than that our glorying herein should be made void Secondly seeing this tearme False Church is so familiar with you we will consider what it meaneth and how farre it doth stand true that God hath made no promise to blesse things done in a false Church These words True and false Church are used oft to signifie as much as pure and corrupt found and languishing Church And as there is scarce a Church so pure which hath not some impuritie nor so true which hath not some falshood admixed so there is no Church so false or impure which hath not somewhat of God or some supernaturall Christian truth within it For if no supernaturall Christian truth bee received or professed there is no Church Infidels being cleane without the Church deny and utterly reject the principles of Christianitie Heretikes or false Christians in respect of generall truths which they openly professe are Christians or of the Church but in respect of their particular errours condemned of all men that be of sound beliefe A Church is not to be esteemed false for some corruptions nor impure for some disorders no more than we account him a sickly man who now and then findes some wearinesse or distemper Neither is a Church to be accounted true because of some truths which they professe Act. 2.41 42 46 worship which they practise or use of the Sacraments which they retaine The notes of a pure Church are intire profession of the Gospell and saving truth of God the right use of the Sacraments holinesse of conversation the sound preaching of the word of life fervent and pure calling upon Gods name subjection to their spirituall guides whereby they may bee directed and built forward in the wayes of life mutuall communion in the ordinances of worship Eph. 4.11 12. and Christian fellowship with all Saints and true visible Churches of Jesus Christ Those Churches to which all these notes agree truelie are to bee esteemed pure in their measure but those to whom all doe not agree or not so truely they are to be esteemed lesse pure or true and that in comparison more or lesse according as more or fewer of these notes common speciall or proper shall be found more or lesse pure amongst them Where all these notes are to be found purely the Church is excellent for degree pure and famous where any of these is wanting or impure the Church is so much defective or impure though it may be pure in comparison of others The profession of the true faith Acts 14.22.23 27 and the framing of our life and conversation according to the direction of the word with the right administration of the Sacraments and comely order Ier. 4.22 Mat. 13.14 15. Isa 30.9 10 11. 5.7 8 9 c. are signes of a Church in a good state and condition But it may fall out that the profession of faith alone by publike preaching and hearing of the word administration of the Sacraments prayers and thanksgiving doth take place when good order is neglected and if life degenerate from the profession for in this case she ceaseth not to be the true CHVRCH of Christ so long as it pleaseth him not to give her a Bill of divorce True doctrine in all points and the due and right administration of the Sacraments in all things according to the word both for substance and circumstance is the note of a pure Church and in good plight But true Doctrine in the maine grounds and Articles of faith though mixt with defects and errours in other matters not concerning the life and soule of Religion and the right administration of the Sacraments for substance though in the manner of dispensation some things be not so well ordered as they might and ought
are notes and markes of a true and sound Church though somewhat crased in health and soundnesse by errors in doctrine corruptions in the worship of God and evils in life and manners A false Church is that which holds neither the truth of faith intirely nor the integrity of divine worship nor comely order which God hath appointed for the government of his house nor holinesse of conversation But addeth to the Articles of faith to that which is worshipped and to the substantiall means wherby God is worshipped and to the holy Commandements which God hath given for the direction of his people or detracteth and perverteth the right sense of faith not considering that which is worshipped as is meete mangling the Ordinances of God and transforming the lawfull manner of worship into another forme and inverteth the holy Commandement by corrupt glosses and sinister interpretations which destroyeth the life and power of godlinesse One false Church may bee more corrupt and rotten than another as being more deepely tainted in matters of higher importance and more generally than another as some may bee corrupt in matters of faith others in doctrine and worship both Ier. 2.11 13. 2 Reg. 16.3 1 Reg. 18.21 Ezek. 16.20 and some in all the particulars mentioned Thus Israel worshipped God and the Calves yea the Lord and Baal And as one false Church may be more corrupt than another Hen. Ains 2. part page 62. Did not the Priests rulers and people condemne the Prophets of God sent in all ages and vvas not Ierusalem the holy City seate of the Priest-hood guilty of their bloud Luke 13.33 34. vvas not vile and grosse Idolatry practised often in Judah and Jerusalem by the Priests and Princes Ezek. 23.11 Did not Iuda forsake the Lord and turne their faces from his Tabernacle shut the doores of his house quench his Lamps and neither burn Incense nor offer burnt offering in the Sanctuary unto the God of Jsrael 2 Chro. 29.6 7. Vriah the Priest made an Altar Idolatrous like that in Damascus and polluted Gods Worship in the Temple 2 Reg. 16.10 11 12 16. Pashur the sonne of Immer the Priest being Governour in the House of the Lord persecuted Ieremie for preaching the truth Jer. 20.1 2. and himselfe prophesied lyes ve 6. See Ier. 32.31 32 33 34 35 36. Mic. 3.11 Mal. 2.8 9. or at one time than another so one false Church may have more of God in it than another and at another time For the lesse grievous the errors are which the false Church holdeth or the lesse abominable the idolatry which it maintaineth the more divine truth it embraceth the more effectuall is that worship of God which it retaineth The true Church of God which is comparatively pure may be called false though improperly in respect of that corruption in doctrine and manners errours schismes divisions superstition or prophanenes which through humane frailty and negligence cleaveth unto it And a false Church may comparatively be called a Church true or pure in respect of them that be more grossely defiled as it hath more truth and purity in it Also the true Churches of God have sometimes bin distinct visible societies from the false Churches and by many degrees in themselves more pure from tincture and infection than at other times and some others have beene As in the dayes of Abiah Iudah was by many degrees more free from pollution than afterwards In Pauls time the integrity of Rome was famous Corinth many wayes reproved They of Galatia much more out of square But the true and Orthodox Church hath sometimes beene so mixed with others in outward society that it hath beene hard to find in the whole world a distinct Congregation of sound and intire professors of all supernaturall truths who joyned in the use of Gods Holy Ordinances but the members of the true visible Church were dispersed and scattered and mingled with false Christians or false worshippers in society and the true Church lay hid in the false Now to apply these things 1. If by a false Church you understand a Church erring in points of faith exceeding dangerous and corrupting the pure worship of God with reall Idolatry with whom the faithfull may not lawfully hold Communion yet then that which they have of God amongst them though not rightly administred is effectuall by the blessing of GOD according to promise As Baptisme administred by the Heretikes holding the forme of Baptisme and of Popish Priests is true Baptisme and not to be reiterated For one and the same society may in one sense have somewhat of the true Church and in another bee the Synagogue of Satan and their Ministers exercise the Ministery and service of Christ when they themselves bee the bond-slaves of Satan It is true God threatens to destroy such societies and is highly displeased with the service that is done there as such because it is not done as it ought but as he is pleased to continue his Ordinance so he is pleased to give it force and validity according to his institution And it is not strange that God should bee displeased with a thing not done according to his institution when the institution it selfe hee doth approve and blesse to some according to his free covenant 2. If by a false Church you understand a Church maimed and corrupt with errors in doctrin and manners neglect of discipline disorders in Ministers and people then as occasion may bee offered Christ hath bound the faithfull to bee present at his ordinances in such Assemblies and promised to blesse them that draw nigh unto him therein In the Church of Corinth there were Divisions Sects Emulations 1 Cor. 3.3 1 Cor. 6.1 2. 2 Cor. 10.10 1 Cor. 15.12 1 Cor. 5.1 1 Cor. 11.19 20. contentions and quarrels going to Law one with another for every trifle and that under Infidels Pauls name and credit was despitefully called into question there the resurrection of the dead was denyed by some that wickednesse was there wincked at which was not heard of among the heathen the Lords Supper was horribly profaned things indifferent used with offence 2 Cor. 12.20 21. Ambr. in 1 Cor. 11 They stood striving for their oblations Hier. in 1 Cor. 11. In Ecclesia convenientes oblationes suas separatius offerebant Apoc. 2.4 5 6. Apoc. 3.20 21. Fornication not repented of and idolatry practised in eating meats sacrificed to Idols in the Idoll Temple And all this notwithstanding the assemblies were kept the faithfull frequented the Ordinances and God did blesse them according to promise Ephesus was extreamly decayed in her first love and though threatned to have her candlesticke removed unlesse she repent Christ doth never lay his charge upon the faithful to depart from his Ordinances Of Laodicea it is said that she was neither hot nor cold and then we may easily conceive she was overgrown with corruptions the proper fruits of negligence security selfe conceitednesse c. For which unlesse she
in l. 9. cp 9. Aug. epi. 118 119 See Caranz sum Concil fol. 43. Iustin Martyr Tortullian Clomens Romanus Eactantius and others vvere of opinion that no particular judgement passed upon the Saints untill the laft day Sixt. Sen. Biblioth l. 6. an 345. The Pastors of this age spake more unwarily of justification and grace than was meet prayer for the dead was ordinarie the foundation of prayer unto Saints was laid and defended by the teachers themselves with overgreat zeale in the superstitious vigils and frequenting the Sepulchers of Martyrs The former prophanation of the Sacraments by superstitious rites much increased some whereof are abolished by the papists themselves Libertie is taken from the Ministers the Bishops contend among themselves with ambition hatred affecting high titles and precedencie more than the good of Gods Church the pleasure of peace and securitie tooke away all care of godlinesse Now they seeke the reliques of Saints goe on pilgrimage to Ierusalem consecrate Temples to Martyrs esteeme it more religion to build certaine places and to pray in them than in others and to live by prescriptions and will-worship of Monkes c. than to walke according to the rule of Gods Word Now they give themselves to corrupt religion with idle and impure rites Images that were not mentioned in the first and second ages of the Church in the fourth fifth and sixt age were brought into the Church in some parts painted upon the walles retained for Historicall and Rhetoricall use to informe the understanding and stirre up devotion and of some began to be worshiped which Gregory himselfe disliked Monkes kept the communion at home and wanting a priest communicate themselves No publike assemblies could be found in which the ordinances of God did flourish intirely Augustine complained of the multitude of rites and ceremonies which were in his time wherewith the Church was grievously burdened but in the ages following was much more intolerable Of the particular slips and errours of the ancients it is needlesse to say more Here I would demand was this Church all this while thus corrupted the true church of Christ or a fals was the true worship of God performed in these assemblies the true worship or was it pernicious Idolatry If a true Church then a societie T. C. repl 1. pag. 73 wherein corruption of Doctrine and of the Sacraments hurtfull Ceremonies dominion and pomp of the clergie new orders and functions of the Ministerie is to be found may be the true Church of God And what then can you object against the Church of England to prove it a false Church If a false Church Fulk ansvver to the Rhem. in Eph 4.13 all the true Bishops of the primitive Church for six hundred yeares and more after Christ in all necessary points of doctrine agree vvith us and therefore vvere ancestors of our Church In the later times also for every age vvee can name divers pastours and teachers even in the most darke times c. Calfeh against Mar. preface to the reader Greg. epist. l. 7 indict 2 c. 109. Concil Nicen. a but that Councel vvas not generally received Sigth in an 755. Reger Howden continuat Beda anno 792. Feild of the chuteh l. 3 cap. 8. See Calfehil against Mart. art 3. p. 58 69 c. Bilson Christian subject part 4 page 316 317. This vvas about the yeare of our Lord 1160. See Vsser de suceess Eccles History of the Waldenses Daltha Lydia hist Chaloner credo Eccles part 2 sect 2. then either the faithfull were bound to avoide all societie and fellowship with it in the ordinances which a sober minded man will not affirme or all communicating with a false Church in the ordinances of God is not pernicious idolatry The faithfull which lay hid in this corrupted state of the Church and did partake in the ordinances of worship were never held and reputed Idolaters In the ages following the mystery of iniquitie did grow amaine for the worship of Images first began and after was concluded the Pope obtained to bee called head of the universall Church Saints were invocated as Mediators the Communion was mangled and delivered in one kind the merit and dignitie of workes advanced to the prejudice of Gods grace the doctrine of reall presence and orall eating of Christs flesh in the Sacramant by good and bad and the adoration of the Eucharist was taught and received These grosse corruptions prevailed for a time in the Church before they were concluded upon in Synods or Councels opposed by some condemned by others and manfully withstood especially the worshipping of Images During which time the faithfull who condemned these abominations did lie hid in the Church keeping themselves undefiled from these errours but separated not themselves from the ordinances of grace nor gathered themselves into a distinct body After these abominations were concluded the first that separated themselves were the Waldenses Albigenses or poore men of Lyons who withdrew themselves from the societie of the Romane Synagogue and worshiped God in distinct companies according to his will These are reported to be men of sound life and god linesse by the testimonie of very enemies themselves notwithstanding they were most shamefully traduced and grievously persecuted for Christs sake But after this separation made by them If sheepe in a pasture vvhere venemous hearbs are mixed with vvholsome can by the instinct of nature make choise of that vvhich is proper for them and abstaine from the contrary vvhat marvaile is it if the flocke of Christ vvho know the voice of the true Shepheard from the voice of strangers should by the guidance of Gods assisting spirit doe the same Chaloncredo Cameron dc Eccles ca. de schism See Field of the church l. 3 〈◊〉 6 8. Carleton descript ca. 1 p. 8. divers other godly men did patiently endure the tyranny of Antichrist and groaned under that heavie yoake bewailing the misery and reproving the sinnes of the time sought to reclaime others and labour to keepe their owne selves free but did not actually separate from the societie And this as the learned judge was done if not by Gods commandement at least by gracious indulgence Vntill the time of the Trent Councell saith one the Church although oppugned with errours and deceits of divers kinds oppressed with tyranny did not patiently endure the tyranny of the Pope and the impudency of the Fraterculi And though oftentimes before they had thought of separation yet they could never effect it untill that was fulfilled which the Scripture had foretold It is here to be further noted that neither the Waldenses who first separated nor the reformed Churches which in after times cast off the yoke of Antichrist and abolished his Idolatry did make such a pure and perfect reformation in all things as was to be desired And therefore if they be measured by your meat-wand they must all lye under the censure of false and idolatrous Churches who worship God with a false
dist 93 ca 24 dist 95 can 5. Gratian par 2 c 9 qu 2 c. Lugdunens Calvin Justit l 4 c 2 s 11. Chamier panstr Tom 2 l 16 cap. 4 S. 9. Iun animad in Bel de cleric c 14 not 2 c 3 not 59 Chamier Ibid c. 6 s 11. Sed Catholici negaut consquentiā sciunt posse illa omnia extare in media haeresi inter Apostatas Quod si nostri negari incipient Apostatae cur Fararius cur ejus Mecaenas Jacobus Davius nunc Cardinalis non renunciarunt Baptismo apud nos quos ille disputat apostasiam fecisse recepto non jusserunt se denuo ting Author imperfect oper in Mat. hom 49. Omnia haes quae sunt proprie Christi inberitate habent haereses illae inschismate similiter Ecclesias similiter ipsas Scripturas Diviras similiter Episcopos caterosque ordines Clericorum similiter Eucharistiam caetera omnia c. And hereof the grounds and reasons are evident For on the one side it appeareth the Ancient Church did not hold her Constitutions to be absolutely essentiall to the calling of a Minister or to the semper esse thereof as if the omission or non-observation thereof did make them no Ministers Bishops by the Ancient Constitutions of the Church were to be ordained by three other Bishops neere adjoyning But instances there be manefest that the Church hath dispensed with these Canons Pelagius the first as Anastasius writeth in vitâ Pelagij was consecrated of two Bishops only Iohannes de Perusio Bomu de Ferentino Anareas Presbyter de Ostio Evagrius Bishop was consecrated of Paulinus onely Moses refusing to bee ordained of Lucius was created Bishop of them who were banished into the mountaines The Bishops of France only Dionysius ordained It is an humane constitution saith Iohannes Major that a Bishop should be ordayned of three invented for solemnity not as absolutely necessary Presbyters or Elders were ordained by the Bishop The rest of the Presbyters then present laying on their hands But seeing Bishops were greater than Presbyters rather by the Custome of the Church than by divine institution this was not simply required to the essence of ordination but according to the Custome and Ecclesiasticall Ordinances The Chorepiscopi also who were nothing but Presbyters were allowed to ordaine by the leave of the Bishop And on the other side if they bee not lawfull Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops the Churches of God throughout the world have beene destitute of lawfull Ministers for the space of this foureteene or fifteene hundred yeares which the Non-conformists will never affirme As Rome it selfe is a Church as the Church is opposed to Turkes and Infidels and as Heretickes specially they whose opinions are not in specie as they say pernicious CAN Stay § 2. pag. 11. are the Church So in Rome and amongst Heretickes so much truth of Ministery is found as the acts they doe are not voyd altogether and of none effect The doctrine of the Nicolaitaus which was that adultery and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their Idol Temples Iren. l. 1. c. 27. Epiphan 1. Tom. 1. Was not you say in the judgment of the Churches at Pergamus Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be born withal If Pergamus and Thyatyra so grievously corrupted were true Churches The receiving of Ordination from the hands of a Bishop doth not so leaven the Ministery as to make a nullity thereof or make it unlawfull for others to joyn therewith in the worship of God A Bishop ordained per saltum P. Aureolus in 4. Sent. dist 24 art 2 Capreolus dist 25 art 2. Cusan concord cathol lib. 1. cap 4. Membrum suo officio non contentum sed cupicus prae ripere alienum conturbat corporis ordinem totum c. sic singulorum ornamenta non sunt alijs congrua sed unumquodque requirit sua abijcit aliena Gratian. dist 89 cap. 1. They that hold the Office of Bishops to be of GOD do hold that the Church ceaseth not to be a Church in which this degree is not to be found that never had the Ordination of a Presbyter can neither consecrate and administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper nor ordaine a Presbyter himselfe being none nor doe any act peculiarly appertaining to Presbyters Ordination therefore is reserved to the Bishop not in respect of superiority in degree of ministery above his brethren for if he be no Presbyter he cannot make Presbyters but for order sake and to prevent Schism and division being for substance of the same order and Consecration with them If one member in the body challenge to it selfe that office which belongeth to many it breeds some disorder and confusion but makes not a nullity of that which is done Succession in the Apostles Doctrine is an essentiall and unchangeable note of the Church which wheresoever it is found doth argue truth of ministery in that society for the Preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments to draw men to internall Communion For that particular Church is the true Church of Christ which retayneth unity with the Catholickes sc the unity of the head the unity of the body the unity of Doctrine and unity of the Spirit Iohan. Major l. 2. hist de gest Scotor cap. 2. scribit Scotos per sacerdotes Monachos sine Episcopis in fide eruditos esse usque ad An. Dom. 429. adeo ut Ecclesia scotitae plusquam 230 annos floruerit absque regimine Episcopali Nam Religionem Christianam suscepit Scotiae An. Dom. 203. ficu◠consentiunt Historic◠omnes Ames Bel enerv tom 2. de Eccles Forb Iren. lib 2. cap. 11 prop. 10. Bilson perpetuall Church Government Epistle to the Reader I have alwayes had before mine eyes the most of them are Brethren for the truths sake c A. W. Ansvver to late popish Articles page 73. Iun animadv in Bel cont 5 l. 1. cap. 3. The right and povver of giving Ordination to the Ministers of the Church belongeth primarily vvholly to Christ vvho communicateth the same vvith his Bride the Church Both the Bridegroome for his part and the Bride for her part have delivered this povver of Ordination to the Presbytery jure divino afterward the Presbytery conferred jure humano this power upon them who were specially called Bishops c. Aerius was called an Heretike in the time of Epiphanius not for his opinion but for his separation which he made together with it For so the Fathers of the first Constantinopolitane Councell Can. 6. which in the booke of Canons is 169. Haereticos autem dicimus eos qui olim ab Ecclesia abdicati sunt qui postea a nobis anathemati 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praeter hos autem qui se sanam quidem fidem profiteri 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subassumunt segregaverunt autem sese
vvhat need is there to lay dovvne their false office I cannot say of this mans Logicke as Aristotle did of Theodorus his making Epithites It is his vvhole art CAN. Stay p. 27. that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time provided hee onely teach the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then hee sinneth not and so consequently no just cause of his comming out from among them ANSWER Ill might you twit your adversarie with his little skill in Logicke unlesse it was done in policie to hide your own loosenes in this and the like arguments For though it be not an Idolatrous act to preach the truth of the Gospell in a false Church in other respects it may be sinne to continue a member in that societie and so also to teach the Gospels Truths As it may be scandalous and offencive an appearance of evill A man may doe that whereunto he is not called from an evill mind Also it may bee sinne to continue in a false Church though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospell because he cannot professe all maine and fundamentall truths or that border thereupon nor testifie against all corruptions grosse haereticall reallie Idolatrous which in Conscience cannot bee tolerated or borne withall without grosse hypocrisie or dissimulation or hee cannot keep himselfe from the tincture of Idolatrie in practicâ— As for example though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospell or administer the Sacraments of Baptisme yet it is not lawfull for a Christian to remaine as a member in that society because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances but he shall commit reall Idolatrie or must dissemble many grievous and hatefull abominations which cannot bee dissembled and shall bee thought to bee of the same Religion with them or of no Religion c. The multitude of Authors which you quote against hearing false Prophets or continuing in false Churches doe they not give other reasons why wee ought to separate from them or doth any one ever lay this down as a truth or foundation of separation In the page following you alledge sixe reasons which you say may bee applyed against the going with others to an Idol ministerie Church or worship c. But if they bee of any strength this reason whereof now wee speake is nought worth for they are directly crosse Here you say If in preaching the truth of the Gospell he doe no Idolatrous act he sinneth not but there you say he sinneth many other wayes But in all this you take that for granted which we confidently denie sc That our Churches worship or Ministerie is false and Idolatrous And therefore taking the proposition in your sense we say It is not only lawfull but necessary to remaine Ministers or members of some Churches which lye under your censure as false and Idolatrous but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of Iesus Christ graced with his presence covered with his banner and beautified with his Ordinances and tokens of love And that which you call an unblessed standing wee make no question but it is approved and blessed of Christ and therefore regard your reviling the lesse Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag. 73. If a man performe an action in a state and of publike nature he is to be considered in respect of himselfe as is that state and according to the publike Ordinances For if the state be false and the officer unlawfull it is familisme for him to say I know this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ and every commer here to worship according to the constitution is an Idolater but I will have in my selfe a secret meaning from the rest Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are reall Idols set up by earthly Princes c. Whosoever comes and bovves before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Idolatry Id. pag. 73. This is a sure thing and let it bee noted No administration performed in a state and by a power and constituted office can be sought desired and received but in so doing the doer ipso facto really approves of that state power and office bee the same lawfull or unlawfull And as for any mans saying to the contrary it is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne Head and will prove as good as the miracles which Iannes and Iambres wrought even meanes to harden his owne heart and some others as they did Pharaohs by doing them ANSWER You say it is an easie thing to Conquer CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 66. Wee are no such Children as to give the cause so avvay CAN. Necess of sep p. 226. But this vvee cannot give him though hee begge it shamefully because the thing is othervvise as their ovvne vvritings manifest CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh against Mart art 3. page 86. if begging might procure it and if confident assertions will carrie a matter you will not goe without it But we must not be driven from the Church the Ordinances and worship of God communion with Christ and societie of Saints by an emptie blast of words No though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our owne writings Doe you thinke your bold impudent asseveration that any mans saying to the contrarie is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne head will make us by and by yeeld to your definitive sentence for which you can produce neither Scripture nor reason nor authoritie but your owne as if your ipse dixit Pope-like were to be rested in Wee are no such Children We are not to be feared with rattles You must bring better matter than your vaine fictions and sounder proofe than vaine repetitions of the same things over and over or else you must expect small credit to bee given unto your words They that joyn together in the worship of God Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9. Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda in quâ si Christus habitator sit haud dubiè legenda c. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat ne quam labem perfidiae posâ—it aspergere deserenda est Sadeel de legit Minist vocat p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us vvarning before hand to make the people secure touching evill overseers lest for their sakes the chaire of vvholesome doctrine should be forsaken And Tract in Ioh. 46. The Lords fold hath some overseers that bee Children some that be hirelings ordinances of Religion they approve the faith protessed in points fundamentall the worship performed for the substance Ordinances administred and the truth of Ministerie for substance whereby these things are dispensed For of necessitie if the doctrine of salvation be restored the lawful use of the ministery is restored also Where God is truelie called upon in the Congregation and the Sacraments
certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly and no manâ— else and if any in the Land stand otherwise hee cannot properly be said to be a Minister of that Church but rather is a schismatike from it Id. p. 57. according to the formall constitution of it c. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister before made by the Bishops so that the people give him not any part much lesse the substance of his calling Id. p. 61. but a bare permission only to exercise by vertue of that calling But none may heare or have spirituall communion with such a Ministerie Id. p. 213. whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishops calling If the ministerie of the Prelates belong not to any ordinarie assemblies then is the same Antichristian and so consequently is that which is derived from it And so much from their own principles wee have formerly proved Id. p. 213. The Ministerie begotten by the Prelatesis illegitimate and false I say those which take their offices and callings from them are bastardly Ministers The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlawfull and Antichristian and the Ministery is false so long as they doe retain that false calling which they tooke first of the Bishops Id. p. 45. they of the Pope and he from the Divell Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God and worketh upon the consciences of men See CAN Stay §. 6. p. 78.79 by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receive or joyne themselves unto But all the Parsons Vicars Parish Priests stipendaries c. that stand over the Church Assemblies in England deale with the holy things of God and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling ANSWER Vpon this one prop lyeth all the weight of your building wheâ—em you strangely triumph as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever that either they must goe backe from what they have writen against the abuses of the ministery or confesse they have said and unsaid as occasions have changed now maintaining that as right which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian And this you presse over and over with great confidence and insolencie But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already and shewed that this exception hath no weight or soundnesse either from truth or Non-conformists principles In answer to this renewed blast of words I will briefly repeate what hath been proved more at large Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and administer the Sacraments not from the Prince but from Christ Himselfe Goe teach all Nations c. onely the Prince giveth him publiked libertie without let oâ— disturbance to doe that which Christ commandeth Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature Chaloner Credo second par◠§. 2. He which conferres Baptisme and Orders as the principall Donor is Christ the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument August contr Crescon l. 4. c 6. per ministros dâ—spares Dei miâ—us aequâ—â— est quitâ—n â—â—illorum sed ejus est CAN. Stay §. 3. p. 60. August in Psalme 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 860. The ghostly worke is Gods the bodily service is the Priests wherein Iudas the thiefe Simon the Sorcerer c. may challenge as James c. First the Ministers of the Gospell derive not their authority or office from the Bishop Patron Presbyterie or people but immediately from Iesus Christ whose servants they are whose words they preach whose Sacraments they administer whose flocke they feed by whom they are protected and to whom they must give account If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authoritie from the Classis or Bishop he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the communitie of the faithfull for neither the one nor the other can justly challenge that authoritie to themselves The Bishop Colledge Ecclesiasticall or Church cannot make a Minister formally or vertually but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed Wherein if Pastors or people shall walke disorderly challenging more than of right belongeth unto them or giving up their right through sloth negligence ignorance or security or not attending unto the direction of the great Shepheard of the flocke shall chuse a man unfit or not well qualified or shall proceed rashly tumultuously upon misguided affection in that weightie businesse though they incurre just blame and reprehension yet that makes not a nullitie of the Ministery or of the Ordinances dispensed upon that Election and Ordination Your selfe telleth us and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees That men being lawfully called to the Ministery are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective And if disorderly proceeding in election or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected do not make the election voyd how shall the meere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the ministration If the carelesse or wilfull neglect of administration and execution of his office cause not a nullitie of the choyce Vnreasonablenesse of Separ p. 56. They may acknowledge a further calling than that of the Prelates yet not therein renounce the calling received from them for the Prelates being learned Divines and having approved their gifts and by words and Letter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but leave them c An Examin of D. â— Cen. p. 33. why shall the lacke of the peoples suffrage which they voluntarily have given away or otherwise lost make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect 2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister neither doth Episcopall Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people Therefore it doth not hinder but a man may bee made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church and a Minister of this or that people by the free choice approbation and consent of the faithfull So in the fourth age of the Church somtimes the people would chuse a Minister whom they thought meete and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostome de Sacer of the chusing of Basil when Iohn Chrysostome himselfe gave him the slip Sometimes the Bishop would espie a meete man himselfe and require the consent of the people to chuse â—s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor 3. The
Papists themselves who stand so much upon the necessitie of succession and ordination by three Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church Bellar. de Eccl. l. 3. c. 10. S. Ad Secundum are yet forced to acknowledge That to know that Pastors are true there is required neither faith not lawfull Election but this onely that they be acknowledged such of the Church and that they hold the place of Christ de facto though not de jure And seeing you pretend to build upon the Non-conformists principles you may take notice of their profession which is this Baptisme administred by Popish Priests is good and sufficient and they are to bee accounted for Ministers though they bee not good and lawfull Ministers but usurpers and intruders The like may be said of such as without ordinary calling An Examin of D. W. Cen. art 11 page 14. counterfeite themselves to be Ministers and so deceive the Church In these the secret consent of the Church receiving them for Ministers untill their wicked usurpation bee espied may be sufficient to authorize their ministery toward others CAN. Necess of Separ Page 234. If I were not unwilling to give occasion unto the Bishops to insult over these men I could hence manifest much bad dealing in them but I will forbeare for the present and do referre the Reader to their owne principles which is Jd. page 239. CAN. Necess of Separ p. 221. Are the Princes of the earth bound by Gods Lawes to maintaine the ordinary ministery of your Assemblies then have you from time to time shamfully mocked and abused them in craving so earnestly for their ayde to have and place thereof CAN. Stay Sect. 1. page 50. that all Ecclesiasticall officers ought necessarily to bee made by the free choyce of the Congregation wherein they are to administer And if they can prove all this I doe not see but the Controversie may easily be taken up betweene them and the Bishops only then they have just cause to begge pardon of them for their pleas against their Prelacy and the maine heavy accusations which they have put up both to Princes and Parliaments against them ANSWER Here you play the Rhetorician and make shew what you could doe but that you will for the present take some compassion upon the Non-conformists Whereunto I will returne no other answer than what you have made to my hand As for your minsing figure of extenuation I could hence manifest I like it not For you do here none otherwise than if a Thiefe when hee hath stript a man out of all that hee hath would faine yet bee counted mercifull in that he doth not murder him or binde him as some others have done Let any indifferent man read your writings and he will say you have not spared your opposites but shot at them Arrowes of bitter words and made them as odious and vile as man can do But blessed is hee that is not offended at the truth for such things Looke upon your selfe in that which you say against your opposites You referre your selfe to their Principles and they make nothing for you as it hath beene alreadly shewed and you might see your selfe if you did not shut your eyes The reason which here you bring is but your owne saying said over many times and indeed bewrayeth more cunning CAN. Stay §. 2. page 55. than reason truth or Consciene and to speake in your phrase sophistry than sincerity For in plaine termes this is your forme of arguing If the Episcopall ordination be not a meere nullitie Vnreasonabl of Separ page 54. I know none having received Ordination from the Prelates that need deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Ministery which they have taken from them T. C. repl 1. Ep. By exercising unlawfull authority and by taking unto them partly such things as belong by no meanes unto the Church and partly which are common unto them with the whole Church or else with others the Ministers and Governours of the same if the ministerie of the idle carelesse prophane yea of the learned godly and painefull be not a meere Idol then have the Non-conformists just cause to begge pardon of the Prelates which hangeth together as a rope of sand The ministery of the Priests Scribes and Pharisees was true in time of the Old Testament and in the dayes of our Saviour Christ had the Prophets then and our Saviour just cause to beg pardon because they accused them of ignorance pride tyrannie contempt of the truth oppressions hypocrisie as blind guides and ravening Wolves who spoyled and made havocke of the flockes The Non-conformists never deemed the ministery of the Church of England for the substance and essentiall parts therof to be false and Idolatrous nor craved the aide of the Prince and Parliament to have it quite or in part abolished you have just cause to begge pardon that slander them in this manner But they complaine of abuses in the ministery and these they desire might be reformed That the ministery might be more pure and incorrupt They complaine of the usurpation of some who challenge that as peculiar to themselves which belongeth to their brethren in common who admit the basest of the people into the office of the ministerie doe that by their sole pleasure which should be done by common Counsell King Canutus made a Lavv by the Counsell of his sages at Winchester That Bishops be Preachers and Teachers of Gods Law and carefull followers of good works Leg. 26. And that every Christian learne so much that he can the true faith and the true understanding therof namely the Lords Prayer and the Creed or else not to have Christian buriall neither to bee admitted whiles he liveth to the Lords Table c. Amb. de dignit sacerdot ca. 3. Quantò prae caeteris gradus Episcopalis altior est tanto si per negligentiâ—m dilabadur ruina gravior est Magna sublimitas magnam debet habere cautelam CAN. Stay S. 12. p. 120 Honor grandis grandiori debet soliciâ—udine circumvallors and disregard the consent and approbation of the Church both in Ordinations and excommunications and if the ministery of the Church of England be true for substance might they not without blame desire and crave the reformation of this abuse they complaine of the pompous Non-residents who feede themselves and regard not the flocke strive after preferment and heape up livings but labour not in the word and doctrine nor look after the welfare of mens soules they accuse these as the poyson and bane of the Church or unfaithfull shepheards who leave the flock to be dispersed and scattered and yet they will not say their ministery is false or Idolatrous or a meere nullitie doe they then shamefullly mocke or abuse the Prince or Parliament in petitioning that this grosse corruption might be reformed They accuse the ignorant carelesse prophane Ministers of neglect of their office and unworthy any place
or standing of honour in the house of GOD have they cause to aske pardon of this also if they shall thinke their ministerie may be effectuall to the faithfull A Minister lawfully called say you according to Christs institution is incontinently upon his outward lawfull calling a true Minister let his practices afterward be good or bad Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister utterly neglecting his charge or inclining to say Masse and Mattens or loose and scandalous in behaviour as unworthie his place and office have they just cause to crave pardon of him because they acknowledged him to be a Minister but unworthily Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Ministery when the ministerie it selfe is not to be cast off as altogether ineffectuall SECTION 9. CAN Necess of Separ pag. 27.28 The Learned generally affirme Rhem. annoâ— in Iâ— 10. anno 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22. that it is unlawfull to communicate in a false ministery Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to bee taken for deceivers who take upon them the office of teaching without a true calling and a little after he saith That so much being discouered 〈◊〉 Christian must 〈◊〉 hid â—are against them Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19. and Psal 15. p. 56. Admon 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply 1. pag. 83.155 CAN. Stay p. 5.62 63 71 113 118 119 c. and flye from them as from Wolves Musculâ—â— in Matth. 7.15 saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20 speaketh as much and giveth this reason for it because they destroy both bodies and soules of aâ— many as eâ—t her beâ—eeve or reverence them Zanch in Phil. 3.2 Ralloc com in 1 Thes 5.11 page 228. Riv. in Psal 16. page 52.53 Oecolamp in Isa â—â—2 fol. 20. Cal. in Psal 16. Fen. in Song 1.6.7 Cornel. a Lapid Com. in Iohn Ep. 2. page 505. saith False Ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawfull way when they are boundâ— Par. in Hosea 13.2 Sedul in 2 Reg. 5. Mâ—â—ty loc comâ—p 119 Virels Grounds in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in â—rac 3. p. 534. ANSWER Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field CAN Stay Sect. 12. p. 119. you say I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning that hath lesse brought to countenance it than this For whereas others doe commonly quote Scriptures albeit mis-applyed and alledge for themselves the judgements of other men Hieron in Psalm 5. Omnâ— qui maâ—è intillig it Scripturas in via Dei corruit He goeth not this way to worke And better it is to goe plainely and simply to worke in the defence of his cause than to wrest Scripture mis-alledge Authors and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple But you have made choyse of the more common though the most sinfull course You pretend Scriptures but handle them amisse Quote Authors but chop and change their words force them to speake what they never meant and when all is done they will bee found to make nothing for but direct against you Ambr. Intus in animo perdant modo victores abscedant CAN. Necess of Separ p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi veland If Christ wâ—re ever afore all the truth is as ancieâ—â— and everlsting You make use of Logicall Maximes and Theologicall Principles but your mistakes are grosse and palpable in the application of them Some men you say in matters of controversie care not though they lose the peace of Conscience so they may gaine their supposed victory And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings you have not advisedly considered what you have done To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned It is an infallible Maâ—ime you say as Doctor Vsher and others observe out of Tertulliâ—n Whatsoever is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 14. Vsher de Christ Eceles success stat c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase From the beginning it was not so Basil ep 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo pro lege canone habeatur rectae doct inae Henry Answ first ans p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient but I deny it to be most ancient seeing then the most ancient by your own grant is most true c. CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 27. T. C. repl 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Doctors of the Synod 5.6 Warres are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part 3. page 201. The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best so Field This is spoken of the prime first originall being of each thing which is a sure proofe of goodnesse and perfection For all defects found in things are swarvings declinings and departures from their originall and first estate For truth is before false-hood and good before evill and habite before privation But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgment of the separated Church in London concerning the hearing of the Word preached in our English Assemblies as if it must bee truest because it was first and their after judgement adulterate because it followed You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly To reason from the effect of things you say is unsound and unconcludable by the Scriptures This is as if a man would say the Midwives which lyed to Pharoah did much good to the Israelites c. And then you goe forward to produce testimonies that things are to be esteemed by their causes and not by the event and that things are not true because usefull But your Pistoler argueth from the effect not from the event from the proper effect not the effect by accident as you might easily perceive but that you tooke liberty to deride what you could not answer Thus he argueth The Doctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation profitable to beget faith and to build men forward unto life eternall not by accident but of it selfe and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose Therefore it is not unlawfull to heare the word preached in their assemblies What you talke of Caines murder Iudas his Treachery the good that comes by Schismes and Heresies is only to please your selfe with by-matters for the argument is drawne from the proper effect in respect of meanes instituted appointed and blessed of God This Canon is true if truly applyed and rightly limited CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 20. and sect 10. p. 111. parium par ratio est contrariorum eadem est ratio But as you apply it no good Logician would acknowledge it For though the
right Religion Else the Heretiques in England would never have received so much of it For some have avouched it to my face saith the Author of the Curtaine of Church-power that the service there is nothing to the Masse in the English others that it wants nothing but the Popes consecration These things thus retrived it was also thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the lesse offended what marvaile seeing the Jesuites themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service that I heard one of them God is my witnesse herein make it his hope that the maintenance of them against the Puritans would make England the sooner returne to Rome in the rest Quâ—vadis sec 4. Mine eyes and eares saith Bishop Hall can witnesse with what approofe and applause divers of the catholique royall as they are termed entertained the new translated Liturgies of our Church Which is the lesse wonder seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia Cambd. An. 1560. Abbot of Saint Saviours to Queene Elizabeth offered to confirme the English Liturgie by his Authoritie if shee would yeeld to him in some other things Indeed it pleased them so well Fresh suit l. 1 203. that for the first eleven yeares of Queene Elizabeth Papists came to the English Church and service as the Lord Cooke sheweth L. Cooke de jure Regis Eccles f. 34. Syons plea. 49.91 Others of them affirme the same namely their Church-service pleaseth marveilous well the Romish Beast and his ungodly followers Witnesse the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth when as they understood it was no other but the very Masse-booke put into English Witnesse also the assertion of Dr Carrier a dangerous seducing Papist The common-prayer-booke saith he and the Catechisme conteined in it hold no point of doctrine expresly contrary to Antiquitie that is Consider pag. 45. sect 8 9. as he explaineth himselfe the Romish-service onely hath not enough in it And for the doctrine of predestination Sacraments grace free-will and sin c. The new Catechismes and Sermons of the Puritan-preachers run wholly against the common-prayer and Catechisme therein conteined c. Motiv Preface to the Answ And thereupon he comforteth himselfe upon the hope of the supply of the rest To this effect speaketh Bristow and Harding If these things be right why not the rest It shall not be amisse to marke one occurrence in Queene Elizabeths time who being interdicted by the Popes Bull Secretary Walsingham tryed a tricke of State-policy to reverse the same He caused two of the Popes Intelligencers at the Popes appointment to be brought as it were in secret into England to whom he appointed a guide being a State Intelligencer who should shew them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said with all their pomp and procession Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing and so much admiring they wondred that their Master would be so unadvised as to interdict a Prince or State whose service and ceremonies so symbolized with his owne So returning it the Pope they shewed him his oversight affirming that they saw no service ceremonies or Church-order's in England but they might have very well beene performed in Rome whereupon the Bull was presently called in That which you alledge against the English-Service-booke in particular Answer you intend against all set-formes of prayer or stinted Liturgies whatsoever For the use of them is a false devised idolatrous antichristian worship in your account Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disallowed all set and stinted formes Johnson Ainsworth Robinson Greenewood c. as humane inventions forbidden in the second Commandement Images Will-worship Idol-prayers False-worship Lip-labour c. And you your selfe insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists as the cause of Separation from the Church of England that all formes of worship not prescribed of God are will-worship which if it maketh against one holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies Can. Neces of Separat pag. 114. Id. pag. 115. Againe you confesse that every Church is not to be forsaken or left which hath something in it by participation idolatrous And therefore our Service is not devised worship because it is taken out of the Masse-booke as you alledge but simply because it is devised whencesoever it had its originall if it be devised worship First therefore we must consider the matter in generall Oylsâ—hil speaking of Images brought into the Church saith Wee might justly condemn the whole faithlesse fond invention For it was but a will-worship a naughtie service having no ground of the Word of God and onely spring of errour Calf Preface to the Reader testifieth Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list what service of God they please what forme of administration of the Sacraments they thinke best is no part of our thought or point of our doctrine yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the right faith to bee preached the right service of God in spirit and truth to be used c. T. C. repl 1. pag. 8. Park of the Crosse par 1. ca. 4. sect 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans to late popish Artic. p. 73. and then try what is alledged against our booke of Common-prayer These words Formes of worship may be taken two wayes First to note the substantiall parts or meanes of worship and in this sense it is most true That all formes of worship not prescribed of God are unlawfull and false worship because devised by men Secondly To note a bare order methode or phrase wherein divine Service is performed And in this sense the Nonconformists never said That all formes of worship not prescribed are false or devised worship For they know that no forme is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship and where none is set apart by his Majestie it is a breach of his Commandement and devised worship to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer or administration of holy things The Nonconformists condemne not a Liturgie or stinted forme of prayer but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification Whatsoever exceptions they have taken against our Booke of Common-prayer they never disliked the use of it so far as they judged it sound and good They doe not condemne it wholly but finde fault with it as in some points disagreeing with the word of God What hath beene their seeking from time to time a razing of the Communion Booke No but a purging and filing of it after the patterne of that care which former examples set us The Booke of Common-prayer they condemne not as a wicked and ungodly Booke much lesse the Service as false devised and idolatrous but they have and doe use the booke and professe their readinesse so to doe onely they desire to
the word and elements Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 356. To the Papists objecting that as Magistrates Parents have part of Gods externall honour because they present his person in judging and blessing so many Images have part of his externall though not of his internall honour Answer is truly returned It is not in your hands to make allowance of Gods honour to whom you list and againe God himselfe hath made a plaine prohibition in this case that Images shall have no part of his externall honour The words are as cleare as day light Thou shalt no bow downe to them Tho Beacon Catech in his workes in fol. printed at London Ann. 1562. f. 484. Fox in Osor lib. 3. pag. 27. The Booke of Common-prayer before the Communion Cypr. Ep. 63. ad Caecisiâ—m Justin Martyr in Apol. 2 Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 lib. 5. cap. 4. Gratian. Decret part 3. de Conseâ—r dist 2. cap. 10.12 18.36 Durand rational divin offic lib. 4. cap. 5â— how comes it to have those things which are so directly contrary to the Masse that both cannot possibly stand together In our booke of Common-prayer we pray to God onely in the mediation of Jesus Christ and in a knowne language We professe that Christ by one oblation of himselfe once for all hath made a full perfect and sufficient satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world that he hath commanded a perpetuall remembrance of his death and passion in that his ordinance of the Supper and that the Sacrament is to be administred in both kinds the Minister and the people communicating together were these things taken out of the Masse-booke The Church of Rome joyneth the two first Commandements in one or taketh away the second thereby to cloake their Idolatry in the worshipping of Images But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England divideth them into two therein following two of the Fathers at most excepted all Antiquitie and fetteth downe the words of the second Commandement at large The Church of Rome teacheth that in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the body and bloud of Christ is received and eaten carnally that as much is received in one kinde as in both and that in the Masse Christ is offered 〈…〉 a propitiatory unblouddy Sacrifice for the sinnes of 〈◊〉 and dead But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England in the forme of administring that Sacrament teacheth expresly That spiritually by faith wee feed on him in our hearts eating and drinking in remembrance that Christ dyed and shed his bloud for us In the Masse the Priest receiveth alone the people standing by gazing on but the Minister and people are appointed with us to communicate together according to the institution of Christ and practice of the primitive Church We make the communion of the Eucharist properly a Sacrament They a Sacrament and a Sacrifice propitiatory They celebrate at an Altar wee at a Table according to the example of our Saviour Christ his Apostles and the primitive Church in the purest times Wee pray for the living They for the living and dead And if these be not points directly and expresly contrary to the Romane service Rome is much departed from her selfe Carriers pretence in that particular is a meere jugling trick that he might insinuate a change of Religion might be made among us without any great alteration which is as likely as the light should be turned into darknesse and not espied If many points of Popery be not condemned expresly in the Catechisme or Service-booke which are for the instruction of the simple in the grounds of Religion and the administration of the holy things of God and not to shew what is condemned in Religion yet so many points are there taught directly coÌ„trary to the foundation of Popery that it is not possible Popery should stand if they take place And whereas Antichristianisme standeth in ungodly superstructions and additions to the truth and worship of God both matter and object if the Catechisme and Service-booke have not enough in them in his sense of necessitie they contradict the whole bulke of Popery which confisteth in abhominable superfluities or impious inventions of their owne It is mone proper to say the Masse was added to our common-prayer than that our common-prayer was taken out of the Masse-booke For most things in our common-prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church long before the Masse whereof wee speake was heard of in the world And the Masse was patched up by degrees and added to the Liturgie of the Church now one peice then another so that the ancient truths and holy Liturgies were at last stained with the Idoll of the Masse Bishop Jewel Ser. on Josh 6.1 2 3. The things that may bee reserved viz. in the destruction of Hiericho must not bee dust or chasse or hay or stubble But gold silver iron and brasse I meane they may not be things meet to furnish maintaine superstition but such things as be strong and may serve either directly to serve God or els for comelinesse and good order which was sacrilegiously thrust into them But the prayers and truths of God taught in that Booke pertained to the Church as her prerogative the Masse and the abhominations thereof belonged into the man of sinne And if a true man may challenge his goods which the theese hath drawne into his denne the Church of God may lawfully make claime unto those holy things which Antichrist hath unjustly usurped That answer which is returned to the accusation makes against them that sue for discipline viz. That a great part of their discipline is borrowed from the Anabaptists will serve as a buckler in this case And it is this which I doubt not you will approve Whatsoever is proper either to the heresie of Papists and Anabaptists Donatists or Puritanes that wee utterly condemne to the pit of hell But if amongst the filth of their heresies there may be found any good thing as it were a graine of good corne in a great deale of Darnell that we willingly receive not as theirs but as the Jewes did the holy Arke from the Philistins T. C. repl 2. par 1. Epistle to the Chh of England whereof they were unjust owners For herein that is true that is said The sheepe must not lay downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometimes cloathed with it August lib. 2. Serm. de Monte yea it may come to passe that the Synagogue of Satan may have some one thing at one time with more convenience than the true and catholique Church of Christ Bishop Jewel Ser. in Iosh 6.1.2.3 In religion no part is to be called little A haire is but little yet it hath a shadow If our Booke please the Papists it is but in some things wherein in reverence to Antiquitie we come too nigh them in some rites and ceremonies but with the substance of the ministration it selfe they cannot be pleased unlesse they be
in the dayes of the Apostles 1 Admon pag. 14. Altar Dam. 178. nor in many ages following till blindnesse ignorance and lazinesse occasioned a prescript forme to be made for idle and dumbe Priests Fifthly If this were not many would make more profession of Love to preaching and hearing Gods Word but by this meanes it is neglected and despised for worldlings usurers drunkards whore-mongers and other earthly and prophane people away with nothing so well as English Masse Against Br. 43. Curt. Ch. power 42.45 and why but because it doth not sharply reprove them of their sinnes nor disclose the secret of their hearts but that they may continue in all kinde of voluptuousnesse and all other kinde of wickednesse Learn Discour of Eccl. Govern 68. Mart. Senior p. 2. Pract. of Prin. addi and therefore rightly it is called their sterve-us-booke Sixthly God hath no where appointed that the Church should be tyed to reade the Booke of Common-prayer for his worship and therefore to doe it is an high transgression before him as great as the sinne of Nadab and Abihu and such are liable unto the like or greater punishment Seventhly If this were praying and there were never an ill word nor sentence in all the prayers yet to appoint it to be used or to use it as Papists did their Mattens and Evening-song for a seâ—-service to God though the words be good the use is naught The words of the first Chapter in John be good but to be put into a Tablet of gold 2 Admon pag. 55. for a soveraigne thing to be worne the use is superstitious and naught and so is the use of this Service The Nonconformists never passed any condemnatorie sentence against the Booke of Common-prayer Answer as if it was false or devised worship or against the use of a stinted forme as if to reade it was an high transgression before the Lord. Enough hath beene said of their opinion in the former section whereunto adde this testimony of a man of another Nation whom you are pleased to stile a chiefe Nonconformist Course of Confor pag. 58. The famous confession of faith well known and commended at home and abroad the formes of prayer publiquely used in the Congregations and families of Scotland must be cast in a new mould It is true Beza Epist 2. Gravissimè nimirum in semetipsos in fratres reliquos peccare qui naevis istis aut etiam si mavis corruptâ—lis et suas ex aliorum cosâ—entias non leviter perturbant perinde ac si de Christianismo semel ablato ageretur c. Sed vitia a vitiis quae condonanda sunt Christianae chariâ—ati ab iis quae prorsus sunt execranda pradenter distinguenda esset censeo idque tamen non ex carnis sed spiritus prudentiâ—â— the Nonconformists judge it unlawfull to subscribe to that Booke that every thing conteined therein is agreeable to the Scripture but they condemne not the Booke as an Idol or prophane nor the use of the Booke in those things which are consonant to the truth And of this their judgement there is evident ground for we must not approve the least error though in it selfe never so harmlesse for truth because that were to lie against the truth and the God of truth needeth not my lie But many things must be tolerated when it is not in our power to amend them which we cannot approve otherwise we must hold communion with no Church or societie in the world And of this marke are the corruptions noted in the Communion-Booke as hath been shewed and is evident by the particulars mentioned in passages which you alledge It is true likewise they judge the Booke in the forme thereof to come too nigh the Papists and so have others as well as they and therefore have petitioned that it might be reformed that we might depart further from them and come neerer to the reformed Churches But herein they shew what they judge most convenient not condemning the Booke for the substance thereof as a forged worship How much more convenient were it saith T. C. T.C. repl 2. p. 109. that according to the manner of the reformed Churches first the Minister with an humble and generall confession of faults should desire the assistance of the Lord for the fruitfull handling and receiving of the Word of God and then after we have heard the Lord speake unto us in his Word by his Minister the Church should likewise speake unto the Lord and present petitions and suits at once c. But how carefull he was to prevent such wayes and speeches as some professors of the Gospel being private men might be emboldned to breake forth upon such like exceptions T.C. repl 1. p. 106. is evident by that solemn request he makes unto them that professe the Gospell in the name of God that they abuse not his labour to other ends than he bestowed it and that they keep themselves in their callings commit the matter by prayer unto the Lord leaving to the Ministers of the word of God and to the Magistrate that which pertaineth to them The Protestants in France for substance of matter agree with the Nonconformists herein The use of the whole Booke for matter and manner in every thing without addition or alteration they doe not approve because they conceive some things faulty others inconvenient and some things defective and strictly to be tyed to words and syllables is more than the Lord hath bound us unto in the administration of his holy Sacraments But the substance of prayers in the Booke they never disallowed nor the use of the booke 2 Admonit pag. 56. â— Admonit pag. 3. as of a vile and filthy thing Thus the Authors of the Admonition must be understood when they say The Booke is such a peice of worke as it is strange we will use it And now they are bound of necessitie to a prescript order of service and booke of common-prayer in which a great number of things contrary to Gods Word are conteined c. For they professe they have tolerated what they could not amend 1 Admonit pag. 9. Park of the Crosse part 2. ca. 9. sect 4. Wee receive the Communion-book in what wee may and in omitting of the ceremonies we doe in equitie keep the Law because of the end which is to edifie and used the Booke in their Ministery so farre as they might even where they object as great corruptions against it as in any other place To reade or repeate a prayer by heart as if the bare rehearsall thereof in so many words and syllables and none other was a part of Gods worship is a transgression of his commandement whether it be prescribed by others or devised of our selves or set downe in Scripture And the same may be said of the preaching of the Word to place opinion of worship in the meere act done in such words or methode is will-worship
or superstition And we may say of both these exercises so used 2 Admonit pag. 56. as the Admonition doth wee cannot account them praying or preaching but onely reading or rehearsing or saying of a Sermon or prayer even as a childe that learneth a prayer or Sermon without booke if he rehearse what he hath learned he rehearseth a prayer or Sermon but he doth not pray or preach But this is onely the sinne of him that useth not these prayers as he ought it argueth not the prayers themselves to be evill nor the use of a stinted forme publique or private in them that use it or them that joyne to be disallowed If it be not praying as it is used ignorantly for custome without affection it is praying when used aright with understanding faith feeling and such like affections required in holy prayer We reade not of any such Liturgie in the Church of Christ in the dayes of the a Bilson Christ subsect part 4. p. 407 408. You may well perceive by the Apostles words that they had neither Sermons nor Service prefixed nor limited in his time but when the chh came together the Elders and Ministers instructed the people and made their prayers by miraculous instinct or inspiratiō This was all the church-service they had to which they added the celebration of the Lords Supper but without any setled or prefixed order of prayer except it were the LORDS prayer which they observed in all places c. Apostles and therefore no such Liturgie is any part of Gods worship or substantiall meanes thereof to be used without addition or alteratiō of all or any Church with opinion of necessitie holinesse or merit But a set Liturgie might be in use in their times though we reade not of it for the Apostles set not downe a Catalogue of all and every particular order that was in the Church but give us a perfect rule or canon of faith and manners in all things necessary to salvation and all things unchangeably concerning the government of the Church unto the end of the world And if there was no stinted Liturgie in their dayes yet for order a set forme of prayer to be used in publique meeting is not unlawfull because it is of the number of things which God hath not determined in his Word and b In the additions to the Admonitiō it is read thus Remove Homilies Articles Injunctions and that prescript order wherein they declare that their meaning is not to disallow of prescript service of prayer but of this forme that we have T. C. repl 1. pag. 105. Dr. Whiteg answer to the Admonition pag. 143. where God hath not prescribed any forme there no forme must be esteemed any part of worship or condemned as simply unlawfull For as to call that holy which God hath not sanctified is superstition so it is erroneous to condemne that as unholy or prophane which God alloweth or is consonant to his Word though it be not precisely commanded But that there was no such c Bilson ibid. pag. 409. Had they set an order for the service of the church durst any man after have broken it or any church refused it Liturgie in many ages following till blindnesse ignorance and lazinesse occasioned a prescript forme to be made for idle and dumbe Priests is your addition to the Nonconformists reasons and not their saying and more then can be proved by good Authoritie Of the precise antiquitie of stinted Liturgies it is hard to determine but that they have beene in use in the Christian Church for the space of this fourteene hundred yeares if not above no man can denie It is more than probable that stinted formes were in use in the Greeke Churches before they came to the d The Bishops of Rome were 600. yeares and upward patching peicing the Masse before they brought it to any setled forme Polydor. De Invent. rer l. 5. c. 10. Latine at least many things were translated out of the Greeke Liturgies into the Latine But in the Latine Church we finde a stinted forme was in use in Cyprians time in the administration of the Supper not to insist upon that which some mention of the Lords prayer used in the celebration from the very times of the Apostles And some the chiefe promoters of a stinted Liturgie are renowned for their constant and unwearied paines in preaching every day in the weeke and sometimes twice So that there is no probabilitie that the first occasion of a stinted e Rome had one forme of service Millain another France a third Greg. respon ad 3. interrogat Aug. Liturgie was to helpe the ignorant idle or dumbe Priest as you are pleased to phrase it Where you borrowed this clause I know not but I cannot finde that ever the f See T. C. repl 1. pag. 106. Nonconformists have thus written In all the order there is you say no edification but confusion but the g 2 Admon pag. 14. Author of the Admonition saith In all their order of service there is no edification according to the Rule of the Apostle but confusion which seemeth to be referred rather to the h In the Church of Corinth some of their Elders strangers or inhabitāts to venditate themselves and the gifts they had of God might sometimes blesse or make their prayers at the Lords Table in a tongue not understood of the whole multitude But this abuse doth not condemne the exercise it selfe abuse in too many places than to the order it selfe prescribed in the booke as the instances following of tossing the Psalmes like tennise-balls in many places and the peoples standing walking talking reading by themselves doe evidence But the Booke is not to be burdened with the faults of men though too ordinary and common The Nonconformists dislike that nothing els should be required of Ministers but barely to reade service and the ordaining of ignorant Ministers they condemne as contrary to the Word of God and the meanes to nuzzle people in ignorance securitie lukewarmnesse and sinne But the use of a stinted Liturgie or the reading of prayers in the publique assembly they never gainesaid as unlawfull or inexpedient We agree saith i T C. repl 1. p. 106. T. C. of a prescript forme of prayer to be used in the Church And in the other no question many Conformists doe consent with them A prescript service therefore and an k Rutges Metaph. institut lib. 1. ca. de Bono Effectus per accidens secutus ex actione vel omissione alicujus non imputatur ei nisi intercedat obligatio cavendi unum ne aliud sequatur Hoc pacto unus bomo nonpotest juste recte intendere permissionem lapsus alterius ignorant or carelesse Ministery have no necessary coherence the one is lawfull the other unlawfull the one may be retained the other ought to be taken away It is no consequence to reason thus The Nonconformists disallow a Ministery that can
5. ca. 21. weighed and not numbred and that the errours of all these sorts are in specie much more dangerous and pernicious though not so many If you can prove any one errour in specie hereticall to be taught in those Bookes according to the true meaning and intent of the Bookes then I will consent unto you that he which administers in all things according unto them is not a true Minister of Jesus Christ But if that cannot be done and I presume you will hardly be drawne to attempt it in all your raging termes and reproachfull taunts cast upon our worship Church and Ministery you doe but foame out your owne shame The true Ministers of Christ may erre in many things else it will hardly be found that there is any true Minister and therefore to prove a Minister to be a false Prophet it sufficeth not to say he s Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 3. If any of our predecessors either ignotantly or simply did not observe keepe that which the Lord by his example and authoritie willed his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God Aug. Ep. 48. This blemish in his most beautifull breast hee covered with the teares of charitie August de Baptis l. 4. cap. 5. Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti erreth in many things but wee must shew the errours for qualitie to be such as cannot be in a true or lawfull Prophet of the Lord And here I would aske you this one Question Whether there was any true Ministery in the Christian Churches within the space of the fourth fift or fixt ages after Christ If not what is then become of the promises of God made to the Churches of the New Testament If yes whether was not their course of administration polluted with as many or more dangerous errours than can truely be named in all the Bookes forementioned And so expecting your resolution of this one demand I proceed to your third ground of Separation drawne as you say from the Nonconformists Principles CHAP. III. SECT I. IF the publique Assemblies of England have not the power of the censures Can. Neces of Separat p. 149 150. and excommunication but stand under a government which came wholly and every part from the Devill and Antichrist then is their condition naught then are they false and Antichristian Churches The reason is because this power is of absolute necessitie for the Churches of Christ an essentiall propertie thereof and serve not onely for their well-being but the being it selfe for without this there can be no coupling of the parts and members together And so much t De consc lib. 4. cap. 24. pag. 214. Dr Ames testifieth Now the Assemblies of England were not gathered by any such power but in their first constitution wanted the same and had this false power which is exercised at this day as the Nonconformists doe acknowledge Our arguments which we have used in this point have been to this effect Every true visible Church hath a power immediately under Christ to execute Church-government But the publique Congregations of England have not any such power under Christ to execute Church-government Therefore they are not true visible Churches What they will say to this I know not but hitherto they have been silent or answered to no purpose in the world For it is usually their manner to tell us how the Churches in Corinth Pergamus Thyatira c. neglected to execute discipline as though there were no difference betwixt omitting to administer the ordinance and the want wholly of it yea and to have an Antichristian and devilish in the roome of it ANSVVER YOu undertooke to prove the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists Principles But here you reject their Principles with disdaine and build your responsive conclusions as you call them upon your own foundation which you know doth not accord with their Principles The Nonconformists hold discipline necessary to the well-being of a Church the safety of Religion the preservation of Gods ordinances from contempt They compare it to the u Bilson perpet ch gov ca. 1. Since the Church of Christ is the house of God the Citie of the living GOD and the kingdome of his welbeloved Sonne Shall we thinke that God is carefull for others carelesse for his own or that confusion ought to be lesse doubted and feared in heavenly than in earthly things wall of a Citie hedge of a Vineyard fence of a Garden and bounds of an Orchard but never said it to be of absolute w Jewel Serm. on Iosh 6.1 2 3. Discipline is so needfull that neither without it shall ye be able thoroughly to discomfort those that seeke to build up Jericho c. necessitie that there could be no Citie Vineyard Garden or Orchard without it But this in your judgement is broken-stuffe not worthy any answer For where doe they read say x Can. Neces of Separat pag. 151. you in Scripture that this power which Christ hath given to his Church is compared to a wall or hedge c. But rather it may be likened to the power of the body which receiveth food and thereby excrements are purged and avoided the want whereof were in nature prodigious neither could the body possibly subsist and live In the same page you take up Dr Laiton roundly after your manner for saying that the y Cypr. lib. 1. ep 10. Concil Carthag 3. ca. 35. Gratian. decr p. 3. dist 2. cap. 95 96. Bils Christ subject part 2. pa. 335. I do not mislike that malefactors of all kinds not only drūkards railers perjurers adulterers usurers and such like but also theeves robbers ravishers murderers plagiaries incendiaries traytors and all other hainous offenders when their lives be spared by Princes should be driven to earnest and open repentance before they be received into the Church or admitted to the divine mysteries yea rather I thinke it very needfull in a Christian Common-wealth that God be pleased and the Church preserved from all communion with these monstrous impieties c. want of an integrall part of the whole is no sufficient ground of Separation He speakes you say as a man most ignorant of the nature of Church-power for were he able truly to define it he should see that it is of such necessitie as a people cannot constitute themselves in the right order of the Gospell without it as we have before expressed Expressed it may be but not proved by Scripture or reason drawne from Scripture How palpably you abuse Dr Ames testimony is shewed before and it makes as plainly against your reason as a thing can be spoken But that is broken-stuffe which pleaseth you not and he is ignorant that applauds not your dictates To be taunted and reviled is answer sufficient to be given to us simple poore ignorants who know not truely to define what Church-power is But whether this stuffe be broken or the Nonconformists ignorant what Church-power is or
negligence unjust usurpation or the like The right of government in Christs name belongeth unto them because it flowes from the ordinance and constitution of Christ as a proper adjunct which cannot be separated from the subject But the action it selfe of government may be n A disput part 3. c. 8. p. 189. When we teach that the Pastour or Pastours of every particular Church or congregation with the Elders of the same being met together have power to bind and loose we understand this onely of such places wherein a competent number of understanding and qualified men may be had to make up an Eldership hindred divers wayes when the being of the Church is not destroyed The Pastours and Teachers may be ignorant of their priviledges and so give away that which of right belongeth unto them or they may be negligent in the execution of their office and not heedfully attend to the Ministery committed unto them The greater part may prevaile against the better or some few may usurpe into their owne hands the power which belongeth unto the Societie which being once gained cannot easily be regained or redeemed in which cases the lawfull action of government is hindred when yet the Church remaineth the true Church of Christ Thus it hath been with the o Ambros in 1 Cor. cap. 5. The Apostle decreed that by the consent and in the presence of all men hee should be cast out of the Church c. Church of God in all ages ever since there was a Church upon the face of the earth And from this fountaine have sprung the errors abuses and corruptions which have prevailed in the Church of God For if p Hieron ad Heâ—iodor in Id. ad Reparium advers Vigilantium disorders get head of necessitie the action of government is some way hindred or neglected Now to your Assumption First Every particular q August contr eâ— Parm. lib. 3. c. 2. Societie of beleevers in the Church of England or singular Pastour of this or that Congregation hath not the power of government neither doth it of right or by divine gift belong unto the communitie of the faithfull or one singular Pastour Secondly The power of Government as it consisteth in discerning betwixt the precious and the vile admonishing the inordinate and excommunicating the obstinate is considered either in respect of the substance parts and duties thereof or in respect of the ordering and administration by such persons and in such a course This distinction must be granted or else all the Churches which administer discipline amisse in any circumstance at any time must be charged to have no discipline at all and they that commit the administration of discipline to persons in mens opinion not designed by Christ not to have the discipline of Christ for substance For example they that commit the execution of discipline to the Presbytery or Classis have not the discipline of Christ in the judgement of the Separation because Christ as they say hath committed it to the communitie or body of the Societie And they that commit the power of government to the r Chrysost in Math. Hom. 83. No small vengeance hangeth over your heads if you suffer any hainous offender to be partaker of this Table people or communitie joyntly with the Elders in the judgement of reformed Churches have not the discipline of Christ because he hath committed it to the Presbytery And every act of government may be excepted against as a nullity because in some circumstance or other the order prescribed by Christ is not fully observed This then considered the Church of England is not without the s If any Prince would be baptized or approach to the Lords Table with manifest shew of unbeliefe or irrepentance the Minister is bouÌ„d freely to speak and rather to lay downe his life at the Princes feet then to let the King of Kings be provoked the mysteries defiled his own soule and the Princes endangered for lacke of often and earnest admonition discipline of Christ for substance whether the word be taken largely or strictly whether we respect right or execution but the outward forme and ordering of the discipline is not in all things according to the Word of God Iâ— by divine right the power of government belongeth either to the societie of Church-governours or the communitie of the faithfull it belongeth also to the Pastours Teachers Elders Assemblies among us As for the execution of discipline largely taken all men know the Word is truely preached and the Sacraments are duely and rightly t Bilson Christian subj part 2. p. 302. If you meane they may not minister the Sacraments unto Princes without faith repentance which God requireth of men that shall be baptized or have accesse to his Table we grant they must rather hazzard their lives than baptize Princes which beleeve not or distribute the Lords mysteries to them that repent not Bilson Christ subj part 3 p. 2. part 3. p. 248. If the Prince will not submit himselfe to the rules and precepts of Christ but wilfully maintaine heresie open impurity the Bishops are without flattery to reprove and admonish the Prince of the danger that is imminent from God and if he persist they must cease to communicate with him in divine prayer and mysteries Bils Ch. sub part 3. pag. 63 64. 74. administred and in what societie soever God is truely worshipped of necessitie the discipline of Christ is in some sort observed If we speake of discipline more strictly all men know the Church of England by doctrine professeth by Law hath established and daily practiseth for substance the execution of the very discipline of Christ The ordering and administration of the censures as it is in the Church of England is faultie and corrupt and how the godly have laboured according to their places the redresse of that evill is not unknowne to the world in part But the want of due execution of discipline or disordered administration thereof doth not argue the Church to want discipline but the due ordering of discipline nor to be no Church but to be defective and much out of order In the Church of the Jewes in the old u Jer. 20.1.2 3. 29.26 27 Mat. 10.17 Iude v. 4.7.8.10 Testament there was many times great neglect of discipline and abuse thereof In the Churches of the New Testament as in Corinth Galatia the Churches to which James and Jude wrote and Rome the execution of discipline could not take place or was much neglected Diotrephes usurped over the Church and corrupted the discipline when the Church continued the true Church of Christ and the faithfull abode in that societie This instance Dr Ames truely alledged to shew that the reprovers of abuses doe not lay the foundation of schisme or separation from the Church which x Can. Neces of Separat pag. 163. you doe well to spurne at because you know not how to remove it For
what if you doe not reade that Diotrephes was an unlawfull and Antichristian Minister you reade that he usurped over the faithfull hindred the due execution of Church-censures abused excommunication prated against the Brethren and practised a false government And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execution prove a Church to be no Church the faithfull in that societie were bound to separate If the Church had not the power of government at this time if we may beleeve you or receive your position they were no church if they had power in their hands and suffered it to be abused their sinne was the greater And if you take a view of your dealings in this or other particulars vilifying what you are not able to confute and wresting mens words contrary to their plaine meaning if your paper blush not I can hardly thinke but your conscience will smite SECT II. IF the Church of England hath not Christs keyes Can. Neces of Separat pag. 154. shee is not his saith Mr D. But the Church of England hath not Christs keyes saith Mr Brightman and y Syons plea. 111. others Therefore shee is not his house and consequently to be separated from ANSVVER YOur former reasons out of Mr D. I passe over because they have been answered already and are here thrust in to no purpose but onely to cover the insufficiency of your reply His answer was the want of discipline though an integrall part is no sufficient ground of separation This z Can. Neces of Separat p. 152 153. you offer not to disprove by any substantiall reason but with railing and reproach to disgrace wherein whether you more wound your own conscience or hurt your adversary be judge your selfe a Can. Neces of Separat pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9 Rom. 13.21 You say truely It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke and a thousand times better were it to sustaine even a legion of reproaches than for a man by turning though but one to give cause of suspition that evill hath got some part of conquest over him But if you looke into your own writings you shall finde them stuffed with insolent boasting scornfull taunts and reproaches unbeseeming your place person and a good cause I dare say all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline never went in practise so much against their Principles as you in this one particular goe against your profession in the foresaid passage and a good conscience The matter in hand betwixt you and Mr D. is the absolute necessitie of Church-discipline to the being of a Church To what end then doe you bring That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England is an infectious Liturgie Romish-stuffe a devised service raked out of three Romish Channells That the Ministery of the Church of England is unlawfull and Antichristian That the Ministery worship and government of of England are corruptions Doth this make ought to confirme your position or weaken the answer which was truely given But some thing must be said whether to or besides the purpose it matters not Another stratageme b Can. Neces of Separat pag. 153. you put in practice in the same place not very commendable You would seeme to confute the D. out of himselfe What say you if it appeare that Mr D. arguments doe lead rather to separation and that he speaketh one thing and practiseth another would not this be a strange sight especially to himselfe Now whether this be so we will here try by some reasons in his owne moode and figure But though the moode and figure be his the reasons be your owne and not his and the conclusions unjustly drawne from the Premises as the D. answered and we have shewed before Perhaps in warre stratagems may be of use but in the cause of God such cunning devices are dangerous symptoms This I note to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done and now I come to the argument here propounded whereunto I make answer as you relate it for I have not the D. Booke to search out what he hath written The power of the keyes is twofold Concioualis Judicialis as it is usually called The first consists in the preaching of the Gospell wherein the kingdome of heaven is opened to the penitent sinnes remitted life promised and heaven shut to the obstinate which is the sword and the scepter of Christ whereby he saveth his people 2 Cor. 1.21 2 Cor. 10.4 Isa 11.4 Rom. 1.16 and conquereth his enemies beateth downe every strong hold pâ—ireeth to the division of foule and spirit and of the joynts and marrow and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart These effects Christ executeth by his Word even when it is not assisted by the c To excommunicate is to remove the wicked irrepentant from participation of the Lords Supper least by sacrilegious presuming to violate that Table the ungodly should condemne themselves and defile others Bilson perpet gov cap. 9. discipline spoken of Now if it be rightly understood the Church of God cannot be without this key For the Church is gathered by the Word and is a company or societie which hath received the Word in profession at least and doth possesse it and amongst whom it dwelleth The Judiciall power of the d Excommunication is a meere spirituall punishment reacheth no further by Gods word than to take from offenders the remission of their sinnes by wanting the Word and Sacraments untill they repent Bilson Christian. part 3. pag. 52. keyes is the power of government which consisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures and so of the manners and necessities of all men which agreeth not to any one member nor to the communitie of the faithfull nor to any one singular governour but to the Ecclesiasticall Senate yet with due respect had to the communitie of the faithfull In the first sense the Church of England hath the power of the keyes e Cyp. lib. 1. epist 3. I hardly perswade the people yea I am forced to wrest it from them before they will suffer such to be admitted Bilson perpet gov c. 9. Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfied before they released the sentence of excommunication c. and so doing they shewed not what right the multitude had to sit Iudges with the Bishop but what â—â—e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civill societie of the faithfull untill they conforme themselves unto a more Christian course of life I am not altogether averse that the whole Church should concurre in that action c. See August contr Par Ep. 1 l. 2. ca. 1. Can. Stay Sect. 12. pag. 123. not so much as is to be desired but in an eminent sort and that with Gods
time a 〈◊〉 in the Laâ—â—d with whom they 〈◊〉 not have 〈◊〉 covenant it is probable if they had beene grosse Idolaters without all knownledge of the true religion 〈◊〉 King of 〈…〉 his fault carried himself 〈…〉 businesse of Abraham as a man not altogether destitute of the true stare of God That the true Religion was maintained in the family of Shâ—â— is acknowledged by all sorts but in that family it was greatly corrupted for the Scripture testifieth that 〈◊〉 the father of Abraham and the father of Nachor and Abraham himself before his calling served other Gods Jâ—sh 24.2 The Church of God did spread in the family of Abraham to whom God gave Circumcision as the seale of the righteousnesse of faith but the members thereof were as well they that were bought with his money as they that were borne in his house For so we reade that God commanded and Abraham tooke Ismael his sonne and all that were borne in his house and all that were bought with his money that is every man childe among the men of Abrahams house and he circumcised the foreskin of their flesh Not onely Abraham and his seede but all that lawfully appertained unto him and were in his power did partake of the seale of the covenant as such as formerly had been or now were received into covenant And by analogie we may gather that not onely the children of beleeving parents but of Infidels if they come lawfully into the power and hand of Christians to be trained and brought up by them in the Christian faith ought to be admitted into Baptisme Now in what sense Ismael and some others in Abrahams family might be esteemed holy 〈◊〉 others judge Esau was a member of Isaacs family which was the visible Church of God in those times Gen. 25.31 32 33. Heb. 12.19 after that he had sold sold his birth right for a â—esse of pottage and many other wayes had discovered himselfe so to walke as a man could hardly judge him to be truely holy Gen. 35.22 49.3 4 5 6 7. 34.25 38.25 26. The family of Jacob was received into covenant according to the pleasure and dispensation of God and all his sonnes were members of the visible Church when foule offences were amongst them unrepented of Gen. â—7 2 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 detrâ—â—â— eos crimine malo Not to mention the facts of Ruben Simon and Levi and Jâ—dah it is noted of the sonnes of Zilpah and â—ilkah that they runne into slander whereof we cannot thinke they repeated suddenly Joseph his Brethren conceived such hatred against him that they first conspired to kill him but changing their minds therein they sold him unto the Isâ—elites The whole body of Israel was a peculiar people Lev. 20.24 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of whom every one was by the word of God separated into the covenant of mercy and if the whole Nation was the people of God every particular person in that Nation did stand under the same relation But what the state and condition of that people was when they were admitted into Church covenant wee may learne from the holy Scripture When I passed by thee I saw thee polluted in thine owne bloud Ezek. 16.6.8 and I said unto thee when thou wast in thy bloud Thou shalt live even when thou wast in thy bloud I said unto thee Thou shalt live Now when I passed by thee and looked upon thee behold thy time was as the time of love and I spread my skirts over thee and covered thy filthinesse yea I sware unto thee and entred into covenant with thee 1 Reg. 8.53 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith the Lord God and thou beâ—amest 〈◊〉 When God brought Israel out of Aegypt by the hand of Moses his servant he separated them to himselfe from among all the people of the earth Act. 7.38 for an inheritance and every singular person in that huge multitude was a visible member of that Church Exod. 32.8 9.22 Deut. 4.3 9.7 8. Psal 106.7.13 14.19 2â— 28 Num. 14.22 Act. 7.39 40 41 42. Amos. 5.25 26. Josh 5.7 8 9. Deut. 29.4 and all of them by profession Saints or holy the flock of God But oftentimes they sinned and rebelled against the Lord being a stubborne and stiffe-necked people uncircumcised in heart unbeleeving forgetfull of Gods workes despising his covenant idolatrous which had neither eyes to see nor eares to heare nor an heart to under stand And what probabilitie is there that this whole people was truely holy in the judgement of charitie or so faâ—re as man can judge or that they ceased to be the Church of God when they had grossely corrupted their wayes If the true Church be gathered of Saines onely externally and so 〈◊〉 as man 〈◊〉 judge and of them alone framed at of the subject 〈◊〉 which is onely true whilest it 〈…〉 such and false when it degenerateâ— from this dispositionâ— and so as 〈◊〉 and pâ—â—trified stuffe to 〈◊〉 cast out of the 〈◊〉 let it be considered how the Congregation in the Wildernesse could be the true Church of God which so oft 〈◊〉 Act. 7.38 and in many particular sinned against the Lord. It is more true Exod. 24.3.7 the Church and every member thereof outred into Covenant either expresly or implicitely to take God for their God and to keepe the words of the Covenant and doe them to seeke the Lord with all their hearts and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse Deut. 29.4 But Moses saith of them that entred into Covenant that they had not eyes to see nor eares to heare nor an heart to understand and with many of them God was displeased because they obeyed not his vâ—â—yâ—e Deut. 29.10 11 12. Yee stard this day all of you saith Moses before the Lord your God your Captaines of Tribes your Elâ—â—ers and your Officers with all the men of Israell your little ones your â—ives and thy stranger that is in thy Caâ—p from the 〈◊〉 of thy woâ—d to the 〈◊〉 of thy water That thou should 〈◊〉 â—nto the Covetant 〈◊〉 the Lord thy God c. But he testifieth against them also Deut. 32.5 6.15 16. that they had corrupted themselves that their spot was not the spot of his children that they were a froward and perverse generation a foolish people and â—â—wisâ— who forsoâ—ke God that 〈◊〉 them and regarded not the strong God of their salvation Iosh 5.5 6 7. Joshua circumcised all the people which were borne in the Wildernesse for all that time that Sacrament was neglected and his fact is approved But we reade not of any inquiry that was made of all that great multitude what worke of grace God had wrought in every mans soule and it is very improbable that there was not one who did not give good hope of sound and true cleaving unto the Lord with all his heart Psal 78.55 56 57. When God had
cast out the Heathen before them and caused them to fall to the lot of his inheritance and made the Tribes of Israel to dwell in their Tabernacles they tempted and provoked the most high God and kept not his testimonies but turned backe and dealt falsly like their Fathers they turned like a deceitfull Bow Israel then was a chosen people an holy nation Deut. 14.23 29 10 11 12. Rom. 3.2 9.4 Act. 3.25 Deut. 32.5 6. Isa 1.1 2 3 4.10 the peculiar people of God his treasure of delight or choice jewells a people in Covenant the children of the Prophets and of the Covenant and yet a stiffenecked people corrupters set on mischiefe foolish and unwise The Lord protesteth that Israel did rebell against him that they did not understand but were a most sinfull Nation ye◠〈…〉 and Gomorâ—ah yet he calleth them his people and 〈…〉 passing Socleome in iniquitie Ezek. 16.47 48 49.51 Lam. 4.6.22 Isa 5.1 2 3.5 Iere. 2.21 Ios 24.1.14 15.23 24 25. Iudg. 2.8.11 3.9.15 6.7 10.10.16.17 1 Sam. 7.2 3 4. 1 Chron. 13.2 c. 2 Chron. 15.12 2 Reg. 11.17 2 Chron. 25.16 2 Reg. 23.3 2 Chron. 34.31 Neh. 10.29 30. and yet the daughter of his people and the daughter of Zion his pleasans plant and a noble Vine We reade oftentimes that Israel after some grievous fall and requit renewed their covenant to walke with God and serve him onely and to obey his â—oyce 〈…〉 the dayes of Joshuâ— Judges Samuel David Aso Juâ—sh Josiah Nehemiâ—h c. But herein particular scrutinâ—e was not made what worke of grace God had wrought in the hearts of particular persons 〈◊〉 the confession of finne and profession of obedience was renewed And if the looke into the state of 〈…〉 all ages of that Church and particularly under these religioâ—s and godly Princes by whose authoritie the Covenant was renewed it will easily appeare many did but flatter with their â—ips neither was their heart stedfast in the covenant The Prophets every where cry out against the great iniquitie of the Princes Priests and people their idolatry injustice oppression contempt of the Word impenitency stâ—bornnesse so that it is superfluous diligence to referre to the severall passages which mention these things When John the Baptist began to preach the Gospell Matth. 3.5 6. and gather a new people for Christ he admitted none to Baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes which was both a renouncing of them and a promising of amendment of life But we finde not that he repulsed any that voluntarily submitted themselves nor tooke time for tryall whether they made nonfession in truth of heart or no. It appeareth many wayes that when the Apostles planted Churches Act. 2.38 8.37 19 17 18 19. the people whom they received did enter into Covenant with God But it is diligehtly to be observed whom they did receive upon confession of sinnes and profession of faith and whom they suffered after they were received Simon Magâ—s beleeved and was baptized Act. 8.13 1 Cor. 3.1 2 3. 15.10.11 c. Gal. 3.1 Phil. 2.21 Iude 12 verse Iac. 2.1 2 3. Rev. 2.14.20 c. who not long after offered money that he might obtaine the gifts of the holy Ghost In Corinth Galatina and other Churches many were admitted into the societie who in short time turned aside both in practice and opinion as to deny the resurrection and joyn the ceremonies of the Law with Christ in the point of justification and many other abuses which is a great presumption they gave no sure testimony of any sound worke of grace in their soules when first entertained into fellowship And though the Apostles required a confession of faith and profession of obedience of them that joyned in Christian societie yet they tollerated great abuses in private persons which they could not redresse For without question they condemned the having of many wives at once in all men but when that custome at least secret and indirect 1 Tim. 3.2.12 Tit. 1.6 Calvin in 1 Tim. 3.2 prevailed among the Jewes and Gentiles both in those times they give no p Dan. in loc Rivet cathol orthod tract 2. qu. 24. sect 6.7 Chrysost in epist 1. ad Tim. hom 10. in epist ad Tit. hom 2. Hieron in epist 1. ad Tim. ca. 3. cathar cathol advers error Cajet err 99. Jewel def of apel par 2. cap. 8. Div. 1. pag. 179. 1 Tim. 1.20 1 Cor. 5.7.13 Rev. 2.5.16 3.16 Commandement that each beleever having two wives should be cast out of the societie but onely that he should not be chosen into the place of a Bishop or Deacon Great and manifold abuses crept into the Churches even whilest the Apostles lived and shortly after they were planted and some of those were reprehended onely calling the Churches to reformation and amendment the grosse obstinate and most abhominable transgressors either they gave up to Satan or gave commandement to the Churches that they should cast them out but evermore with such mildnesse and moderation as it is most evident they forbore to plucke up the tares least they should plucke up the good corne also It is also manifest they threaten some Churches with Gods displeasure as that he would remove his Candlestick cast them into the bed of sicknesse spew them out of his mouth unlesse they repent but they dischurch them not because of the disorders committed by some tolerated by others nor yet did they command or counsell the godly in those societies to separate from the ordinances of Religion but to keep themselves pure The History of the Gospel in the New Testament containeth but a short time viz. from the time wherin John the Baptist began to preach to the end of the acts and writings of the Apostles which is not full fourscore yeares so that we cannot shew the repetition of the Covenant from time to time or what patience was shewed in tolerating abuses or when men were adjudged obstinate or what repentance and profession was required in generall abuses or revolts but by that which is said we may discerne who in phrase of Scripture are called Saints and holy faithfull and called and chosen even all and every member of the common-wealth of Israel and Christian Churches untill they were cut off or cast out though they lived not according to their profession but were stiffe-necked scandalous prophane The practice of the Church according to the example of the Apostles in q Concil Laodicen 14.46 Hilar. ad constant lib. 2. imperf I cannot receive any man but him that is willing I cannot give care but to him that entreateth a I cannot signe any but him that professeth Raban de instit cleric lib. 1. cap. 25.27 Justine Martyr apol 2. receiving Heathens and them that were without into societie was this First They were taught in the principles of Religion and then the doctrine of Christ being received profession made with promise
Arian infection both in the reignes of Constantius and Julian the Apostata Athanas Graecolar tom 1. pag. 309. edit Comelit Theodor. hist l. 4. c. 3. Pelagius a Britaine by birth troubled the Churches with his pestilent Doctrine denying the grace of God attributing power and libertie to man to live without sinne and keepe the Commandements if he would This Heresie arose about the yeare 405. or 406. and the Author thereof drew his first breath in Britaine Prudent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Trim. 13. speaking of Cyprian saith Gallos fovet imbuit Britannos praesidet Hisperiae Christum serit ultimis Hiberis Vsser de prim Eccles Britan. ca. 16. pag. 787. but he sowed not this hereticall doctrine in Britaine And though it must be confessed That these Churches were not altogether free from that infection yet at first it was opposed and after it was banished by the blessing of God About the yeare 420. flourished Fastidius of whom Gennedius in his catalogue of Ecclesiasticall Writers saith Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines wrote to Fatalis one booke of Christian life and another of keeping Widdow-hood in sound doctrine and according to the truth of God And John Trithemius Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines was a man learned in the holy Scriptures and an excellent Preacher of the word of God famous in life and conversation in speech and wit notable Prosper contra collater cap. 41. Vsser de prim pag. 319 320 323 324. He wrote some devout little works c. And by the vigilancy and care of Lopis and Germanus Antisiodorensis the Britaines were delivered from the contagion which had begun to infect the Churches After this the face of things was miserable in that Kingdome by reason of the invasion of the g Repellūt nos barbari ad mare repellit mare ad barbaros Inter haec duo genera funerū aut jugulamur autmergimur Bed hist eccl l. 1. cap. 14. Bilson The true difference betweene Christians Par. 1. pa. 56. That this Land was infected with Arianisme Pelagianisme as many other places then were I find it reported in the story of Beda Eccl. his gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 8. lib. 1. cap. 17. And the Bishops of France our neighbours upon request made unto them by the Britaines sent Germanus and Lupus two French Bishops chosen in a Synod by the generall liking to convert this realm from Pelagius errour which also they did with great celeritie barbarous enemy the terrible famine the direfull contagion of the Pelagian and Arian heresies and the loosenesse negligence drunkennesse contentions and other vices of the Clergie The Christian Religion thus corrupted was restored againe by the second comming of Germannus but after that grievously oppressed by the comming in of the Anglo-Saxons who could not yet so extinguish the truth of God but it did revive spread and grow though sometimes more pure sometimes more corrupt and sometimes with greater sometimes with lesse freedome But to come to the last reformation which was made of Religion in this Land and it was not the conversion of England from infidelitie to the profession of the Gospell but the restoring of it from a corrupt state or profession to a more pure from Christianitie polluted to Christianitie unpolluted Christians they were who inhabited this Land baptized into the true faith of Jesus Christ but Christians defiled with manifold superstitions led aside into manifold errors which errors and superstitions removed they become sound and true Christians indeed The true h Chaloner Credo S 2. part sect 2 It will soone appeare that the Ch◠of Rome for a thousand yeares after our Saviour professed no other faith nor published any other beliefe in points fundamentall either negative or affirmative than we doe c. After a thousand and some few yeares more were expired Transubstantiation and Adoration of the Host with other dregs of Antichrist being established though we cannot say that the Church of Rome was from thence forth absolutely our Church yet we may boldly say that our church was from that time untill Luther both within the Romane Church and without it Church lay hid in Popery as a little oare in a great lump of drosse not refined not purified not coyned but true gold for substance yea that very same for substance which being purified and stamped is currant coyne When the invocation of Saints worshipping of Images the Latine Service and fabulous Legends the sacrifice of the Masse and adoration of the Sacrament with such like abhominations were taken away and in the roome thereof the true worship of one true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ and the right administration of the Sacraments and the reading of the holy Scriptures in a knowne tongue established when the omnipotency of the Pope is abandoned with all corrupt superstitions which did undermine the foundation it selfe and in stead thereof the intire faith of the Lord Jesus in all points necessary to salvation taught professed and received then is the Church refined and separated from that drosse To bring Infidells from the state of infidelitie to the faith it is necessary that instruction goe before either by reading exhortation preaching or report of Christian faith for faith commeth by hearing But where men professe Christianitie abuses may be reformed by the Edict of the Magigrate without such particular instruction going before as in the former case is requisite Many times * Jo. 2.19 heresie departeth from the Church or Heretickes goe out from the Church and sometimes the Church is compelled to goe out from heresie the heresie still remaining * Revel 18.4 Come out of her my people saith the Lord the godly then departing from Babylon according to Gods commandement gathering themselves into Christian societies the religious Magistrate by his Edict or Proclamation going before them are the true churches of Christ The i Raynold orat epist ad fratrem Non semper heresis exit ab ecclesia aliquando manet heresis ecclesia exire cogitur Papacy was not the church but the church lay hid in the Papacy untill the time of separation which being made according to Gods commandement by the authoritie of the Lords Vicegerent the church which was before k August epist 48. ad Vincent Donatist Ecclesia est quae aliquando obscuratur tanquam obnubilatur multitudine scandalorum obscured doth now shine forth Thus our Divines doe soundly and truely answer to the Papists demanding where our Church was before Luther That it was where now it is but unrefined unstamped that it lay l Beza epist 1. ad Duditium et si Papatun non sit Ecclesia voluit Deus in Papatu servare ecclesiam hid among them for the time as some fit stones for the building under a great heap of rubbish and that we have not erected a new Church but repaired and restored a ruinous m See Dr. Feild of the Church lib. 3. c.
with the triumphant church And not by all sorts as in outward societie and profession are linked together who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation are members in their kinde of that company called or externally selected but not true members of the Church militant nor militant members of the Church catholique whereof Christ is the head And thus the church is a company of faithfull people sincere upright walking with God which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers not as living members of Jesus Christ but as members in a sort of the visible societie as members in the church by outward profession but not of the true militant church SECT V. BEfore I end this point Neces of Separat p. 179 180 181. Babel no Bethel pag. 108. Chall ca. 1. pag 33 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes intirely made up between the Inconformists and Conformists all concluding the forenamed position That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery is not a true visible Church But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery Ergo The Church of England is not a true visible Church The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists Sutcl Chal. pa. 40. and answ to the except pag. 65. as Burton Sutcliffe The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists as we have in the first chapter largely shewed The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people and a communion of Saints so say the Conformists But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people a communion of Saints thus write the Nonconformists see page 169. Ergo the Church of England is not the true visible Church The true Church is the Kings daughter described in Psalme 45. But the Church of England is not the Kings daughter so described Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ Burton answer to Hicholia pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists whereby they prove Rome a false Church The Assumption is the Nonconformists For if they say the truth their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter neither the Priest nor people See pag. 15.16 39.137 â—â— 69.170 The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable BurtoÌ„ in the same Booke pag. 99. Song 1.6 7 Act 20.28 Joh 10.16 Theâ—e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles compared with Joh. 10.3 4.27 Christs flocke heare his voice and live it and follow it But the Church of England submitting to aâ— unlawfull Minisstery worship and discipline heare not Christs voice nor know nor acknowledge nor follow it but the voyce of Antichrist The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration or corruption thus the Conformists Sutcl Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration and corruption say the Nonconformists Sec pag 108 Ergo shee is not the Church of God No societie can be tearmed Gods Church which retaineth not Gods true worship this the Conformists But the Church of England doth not retaire Gods true worship say the Nonconformists See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo The same Booke pag. 13. arg 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church The true Church consisteth not of fierce Lyons Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beasts But of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble gentle c. So say the Conformists But the English Church doth consist of Lyons Id. pag. 27. arg 〈◊〉 Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beast's and not of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble and gentle c. Thus the Nonconformists see pag. 31. c. 145.169 Therefore it is not the true Church Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors make up intire Syllogismes of Separation And how they will be able to loose these knots I know not except by revoking utterly their own grounds which if either of them doe yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men ANSVVER YOu please your selfe with the same Song which here we have over againe and againe tuned with the same art But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors your slanders set aside is idle and toyish For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant the Inconformists doe assent unto And the abuse of ignorance idlenesse prophanenesse both of Ministers people whereof the Nonconformists complaine the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile And your selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme that herein you say no more than what in effect is fully acknowledged Can. Neces of Separat pag. 193. by the Nonconformists Conformists the Church of England the learned generally and all the reformed Churches upon earth and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major and Inconformists Minor Did the sound of those words please you so well But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them but such as ignorance in not understanding or an evill conscience in perverting or falsifying their sayings doth conclude They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots and if they understand their owne principles they cannot but untie them But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill conscience unlesse you recant what you have written repent of your Separation and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists by misreporting perverting and falsifying their principles as you call them I leave to your serious consideration and the reexamination of what you have done For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions Iâ— speake in your phrase against the Church of Rome we must note That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth under the Pope the Head in which sense their propositions are to be understood For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people a communion of Saints the flocke of Christ that heareth his voyce keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles without addition or alteration and worshippeth God truly according to his will And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholique which doth not
this sincerely in truth and measure But they never thought nor taught that every member in a sort of the visible Churches were holy and sincere the true sheepe of Christ faithfull and effectually called much lesse that it was no Church of Christ wherein abuses were to be found or ungodly prophane men were tolerated The q Bils The difference between christium subject par 1. pag. 92. These se the Church militant triumphāt be not two but one Church Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all Gal. 4. Yee be now saith Paul no more strangers and forreiners but Citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God Eph. 2. For you be come to the Citie of the living God and Heb. 12. where you see the Saints in heaven be not removed from the Church of God but be received to their fellowship Id. part 2. p. 230. The Church in heaven is it another Church from this on earth or the same Certainly Christ hath but one body which it his Church and of that body seeing the Saints sc in heaven be the greater and worthier part they must be counted the same church with us Church militant and triumphant are not two Kingdomes but two degrees of one Kingdome The Church visible and invisible are not two Churches but distinct considerations of the same Church If then we speake of true sound living chiefe principle members of the militant Church such as partake in all the royalties and priviledges of members every member of the Church militant is a true branch in the Vine knit firmely unto Christ quickned by the Spirit and shall be an inheriter of eternall glory But if we speake of members in a sort of visible societies so hypocrites may be members and ungodly men as they are tolerated in the societie when the better part cannot reforme or amend them But to the Arguments in order First The Church may be true though the Ministery be deficient in the order of calling qualification of persons and execution of their office But that Church is false whose Ministery is altogether false for substance of their office that is the doctrine which they teach Sacraments which they administer and functions whereunto they are set apart Thus the Conformists and Inconformists both Now if we speake of the Ministery of the Church of England indefinitly both Conformists and Inconformists will confesse some things to be faulty both in the entrance and execution of their callings as that some are ignorant proud covetous carelesse corrupt not watching over the flocke But absolutely that their Ministery is false in respect of the substance of their office that was never said by either of them as you doe or might well know The knot to be unloosed now remaineth in your conscience in that either you aequivocate in your Major or against knowledge charge the Nonconformists in your Minor with that which they never said Secondly The true Church of Christ that is the true and lively members of the militant church and militant members of the catholique church is a company of r The true Church is an universall cōgregation or fellowship of Gods faithfull and elect people built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles Christ Iesus himselfe being the head corner stone And it hath alwayes three notes or markes whereby it is knowne pure and sound doctrine the Sacraments ministred according to Christs holy institution and the right use of Ecclesiasticall discipline Hom. 2. booke hom for Whites 2. part The Church consisteth not of men but of faithfull men and they be the Church not in respect of flesh and bloud which came from earth but of truth and grace which came from Heaven Bilson Christ Subject part 2. pag. 231. faithfull people a communion of Saints the true flock of Christ which heare know acknowledge beleeve and obey the voyce of Christ the kings daughter which is all glorious within knit to Christ and married unto him But in this societie there are mixed not onely secret hypocrites but fierce Lyons Tigres Wolves Beares wicked Teachers and ungodly livers Thus the Conformists and Inconformists And in this sense the Church of England is a societie of faithfull and beleeving people the flocke of Christ the Kings daughter quickned by the Spirit enriched with grace decked with Gods ordinances walking in sincere constant conscionable obedience though in outward societie and profession mixed with many ignorant vaine prophane persons who have received the presse-money of Christ but indeed fight under the Devils banner as doe all hypocrites and ungodly wretches that is in the Church of England there be some truely of the Church which heare the voyce of Christ mixed with those which in words professe Christ but in their deeds deny him Thus the Conformists and Nonconformists The knot here lyeth onely in an aequivocation or grosse abuse of the word Church which sometimes notes the whole visible societie linked in an externall profession and sometimes the true and living members of Jesus Christ against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile Thirdly The s Deo dat Ital. Ioh. 10.1 The sheepe are the true faithfull endued with spirituall light and discretion sheepe of Christ doe heare his voyce but what sheepe not all that be sheepe in profession but all that be sheepe indeed and truth effectually called and gathered into Christ◠sheep-fold They heare that is acknowledge beleeve and obey Christs voyce sincerely but not perfectly fully and compleatly for the faithfull may erre of frailtie and infirmitie both in faith and manners sometimes they are mislead through ignorance drawne aside by passions foiled by temptations Christs sheepe doe obey his voyce but t Bils Christ. subject part 2. pa. 233. The Church is not simply a number of men for Infidels heretickes and hypocrites are not the Church but men regenerate by the Word Sacraments truely serving God according to the Gospell of his Sonne and sealed by the Spirit of grace against the day of Redemption all that are linked with them in outward societie doe not sincerely obey not yet in conversation fashion themselves to the direction and commandement of Jesus Christ And thus the Church of England that is the true and faithfull people in those societies doe heare and obey the voyce of Christ in truth others mixed with them doe heare and professe but not obey If the Church doe erre it is of ignorance nor of wilfulnesse or stubbornnesse In matters of lesse importance not fundamentall or bordering thereupon It is the errour of some onely add not of the whole Church which errours u Gratian. decret par 2. ca. 24. qu. 1. cap. 9. A rectae in Gloss Novitatibus Ipsa congregatio fidelium hic dicitur Ecclesia 〈◊〉 Ecclesia non potest nonesse cannot make that shee is not the flocke of Christ The knot here to be unloosed is your sinne in charging that upon the Nonconformists the contrary whereto they have ever
maintained Fourthly In the true Church of Christ the true doctrine of Jesus Christ the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamentall is kept but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners and others in societie with them may erre grossely impenitently finally And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of w Chaloner Credo Sanct. 2 part subject The church in respect of its outward part as it enters the Creed is not onely an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline but a profession of the same under the notion of truth And that the Church in this sense is invisible Gregory de Valent. confes in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect 16. and Bellarm in his third Book de Eccles ca. 15. Bilson Christ subject par 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad elect reprobate hath no such promise but shee may erre only the chosen of christ which are the true members of his body properly called his Church they shall not erre unto perdition c. Christ the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration though in the government and administration there be many things amisse though in the societie there be many who be not qualified as sheepe humble and meeke but fierce and cruell Fifthly No societie is the Church of Christ which retaineth not the true worship of God but in the true Church of God his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies which might well be spared and are justly disliked Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists and all other sorts and sects of men And thus in the Church of England the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained though the Nonconformists dislike and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists in that you charge them to say that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two if they should be knit for you in this wise First He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ who grossely perverteth the Scripture falsifieth Authors deceiveth with aequivocations condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatrie and the x Jewell upon the first to the Thes chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father and in the Lord Iesus Christ it is the company of the faithfull whom God hath gathered together in Christ by his Word and by the holy Ghost to honour him as he himselfe hath appointed This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard It will not follow a stranger but flyeth from him Of this Church Hieron in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints which ought to be kept and maintained Examine your writings in the feare of God and adde the proposition wanting Secondly He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it But he that derives his authoritie from the people derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it You know the conclusion and where it will light Thirdly The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ the Kings Daughter quickened by the Spirit married unto Christ gentle meeke humble retaining the true worship of God without addition or alteration and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace But the societie of Separatists is not the true flocke of Christ quickned by the Spirit humble meeke gentle keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace These properties doe not agree to all and every one in that societie in truth according as in the former propositions you say they belong to the true Church of God If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions against men as you vaunt I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots CHAP. V. SECT I. IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers Can. Neces of Separat pag. 49 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many are thought to be the best Ministers Of their life and doctrine I say nothing But as for their Ministery surely it is new and strange For the Originall of their name manner of entrance and Administration is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures and I thinke never before heard of till in these latter broken and confused times Therefore it is no marvell when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them as it was by the Pharisees to John Who art thou That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up And being hard pressed for resolution they have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament This I write upon my owne certain knowledge the persons I thinke are yet living whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse Howbeit I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing Pastours I am sure they will not say they are For First They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them Secondly They performe not the office thereof for they agree with the people onely to preach and not to administer either the seales or censures to them Thirdly Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares and when that time is out both parties are free and so may leave one the other and doe many times but a true Pastour may not doe so For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them Fourthly He that is a Parson or Vicar is taken generally for the Minister of the place And truely howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian as the Nonconformists say yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever Therefore not without just cause Neces of Discipl pag. 74. doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers And affirme that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of ANSVVER THis point concerning Lecturers I have purposely deferred unto this place because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension
13.2 15.2 Col. 4.11 Iames 5.14 Epiphan haeres 27. Ignat. ad Tralleus Sozom. li. 4. ca. 14. Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 10 11. Gr. ca. 9. lat Gratian. Decret part 2. cap 7. qu. 1. can 12. And it is to be remembred that in Rome Corinth Ephesus Philippi Colosse Thessalonica and such other Cities inhabited by Christians there were more Pastours than one which did in common governe all the Churches within that Citie and there was not any one Pastour who by himselfe governed a certaine part of the Citie peculiarly assigned to his charge Thus also the Ancients write that Peter and Paul were the first Bishops and Apostles at Rome Paul had Linus and Timothy Peter Clemens and Anacletus Liberius and Felix both governed the Apostolicall Seat Valerius and Augustine Narcissus and Alexander in the Church of Hippo. It is apparent the Apostles ordained many Overseers in one societie and it is not repugnant either to Scripture or reason to thinke there might be many Pastours of one flocke And the flocke might be one under the joynt care of many Shepheards Bilson perpet Gover ca. 10. pa. 155. Every church with them had many Prophets Pastours and Teachers the number and neede of the people and time so requiring T. C. repl l. pa. 34. though they did not ordinarily meete together in one place For to assemble together in one place is meerely accidentall to the unitie of a societie Certaine it is in times of persecution they cannot so meete and it is most probable in the Apostles times many Churches were too populous in that manner to assemble together Those that know the state of France in time of persecution doe well understand that every Church almost was gathered of Townes whereof some were six miles some seven some more from the place of meeting and keeping their Congregations And therefore could not meete so often nor know one another so well as we by the grace of God may doe Fourthly No one Pastour or Teacher hath the power of the censures belonging unto him and whether the power of dispensing the Seales belong to every Minister of the Gospell I leave it to your consideration for I know not what you will resolve but the actuall dispensation of the Seales may be forborne by some to whom the right of dispencing doth appertaine specially when there be others at hand to doe that office The Apostles had power to baptize 1 Cor. 1.14 15 16. Can. Neces of Separat pag. 236. but we may well thinke they did not ordinarily baptize themselves It is possible you say a man may be a true Ecclesiasticall Officer and yet never doe the services thereof Fifthly The Minister of the Gospell is not made absolutely a Minister by the choice or election of this or that people but onely their Minister for the time of his abode and continuance with them Lay these things together and then your exceptions against the office of Lecturers will vanish For if they have not the chiefe charge or cure of soules they be not sole Pastours or Teachers of the flocke but joyned in care or charge with others as Helpers or Assistants or chosen by the people to supply the want of such as should but doe not feed the flocke If they dispence not the Seales neither is that necessary in respect of their standing for right and power from Christ they have to dispence them but in the execution of that power they may be hindred or forbeare it for a time If they leave their place being lawfully called to another flocke it may be with consent of the societie and of the Church and what then doth make it unlawfull or if the charge should be unlawfull it doth not make the Ministery strange or new which is the thing in question SECT II. THat Ministery which is instituted and set up besides those which God hath appointed in his Word Neces of Separat pag. 51 52. is unlawfull and false But the Ministery of Lecturers in England is instituted and set beside these which God hath appointed in his Word Therefore that Ministery is unlawfull and false The proposition is plaine and undeniable and we have their owne words to confirme it For thus they say All the Ministery is by the Word of God and not left to the will of man to devise at their pleasure as appeareth by that which is noted of John where the Pharisees comming to him after that he had denied to be either Christ or Elias or another Prophet conclude if he be neither Christ nor Elias nor of the Prophets why baptizest thou Which had been no good argument if John might have been of other function than of those which were ordinary in the Church T. C. repl 1. pa. 62 63. and instituted of God c. Againe to devise another Ministery than that which God hath appointed is condemned by the second Commandement The Assumption is thus proved First if their Lecturers have taken ordination from the Bishops and exercise by that power onely then is their office false by the reasons before laid downe Secondly If it be objected that they never received the Prelates orders or have repented thereof I answer This proves not that they are therefore true Ministers For as Jehu though he did well to suppresse Ahabs idolatrie yet in that he followed the wayes of Jeroboam he himselfe continued still a grosse Idolater Even so howsoever some may privately report that they stand Ministers by no relation to the Bishops yet are they notwithstanding unlawfull Ministers seeing they were never elected chosen ordained according to Gods Word If any reply that they have their calling of the people I answer the thing is surely otherwise as shall be manifested presently But if this were granted yet I deny that any Church under heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery and therefore if any people should doe it seeing it is against the Scripture it must needs follow that it is an unlawfull Ministery and so consequently not to be communicated with ANSVVER YOu are strangely taken with this note for you have brought nothing but a bare repetition of what you have said over and over If you speake of the substantiall and essentiall parts of the Ministery it is freely granted that the true Ministery is by the word of God and heavenly But if you extend it to every circumstantiall order whereby in this or that Societie the Minister is to execute the function he hath received of God it is not approved But of this you need not to have made so many words To your assumption answer hath been returned already First That the Ministers of the Gospell receive their office and authoritie neither from the Bishop Patron people or Colledge Ecclesiasticall but from Christ immediately whose servants they are in whose name they minister whose flocke they attend and who hath assigned them their worke And if you receive your Ministery from the people as