AN ADVERTISEMENT CONCERNING A BOOK LATELY PVblished by Christopher Lawne and others against the English exiled Church at Amsterdam By Richard Clyfton Teacher of the same Church Psal 57.4 My soule is among Lyons I lye among them that are set on fyre even the sonnes of men vvhose teeth are speares and arrovves and their tongue a sharp svvord Esa 50.6 I gave my back vnto the smyters my cheeks to them that plucked off the hayre I hid not my face from shame and spitting Mat. 10.24.25 The disciple is not above his master nor the servant above his Lord. It is ynough for the disciple that he be as his master is and the servant as his Lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub hovv much more them of his houshold PRINTED In the yeare of our Lord 1612. The Preface to the Reader CHristian Reader it is not unknowen that when Thomas White published his Book called A Discoverie of Brownisme as now againe of late Christopher Lawne others with him have done theirs that there was an Inquirie Answer thereof written by the Pastour of this Church wherein he followed the particulars from point to point In which regarde it may be thought lesse needefull to write any thing about this latter Book being of like matter and argument with the other Yet in some respects we have thought it not amisse now to give thee this short advertisement and the few observations following about the contents of this latter Book also especially about that poynt of the division made lately among us and the articles given out thereabout Concerning which there was not such occasion before eyther in that Answer to Thomas VVhite or in any other of our writings to publish somewhat thereabout as there was about the other matters cōteyned in this Book of theirs And therefore for thy better stay and information is the advertisement following now given thee about these things where they are more at large though yet but briefly spoken of Which thou shal◠do well to consider of indifferently and be not caried from the truth or against it by any sinister meanes used to that purpose but remember what hath ben the lot of the truth and servants of God in all ages And as thy love is to the Lord Iesus Christ so let it appeare in the imbracing of his truth revealed and i◠giving witnesse unto the same And the Lord our God increase in thyne hart the riches of the full assurance of understanding to knowe the mysterie of God Col. 2.2 even the father and of Christ and to rejoyce in the faith and order prescribed in his word And he give thee to discerne thereof aright that the entiseing words of mans wisdome deceive thee not but goe to the lavv and to the testimonie if they speak not according to this vvord it is because there is no light in them Esa 8.20 So mayest thou soundly judge of things that differ And the Lord give thee understanding in all all things 2 Tim. 2.7 AN ADVERTISEMENT CONcerning a Book lately published by Christopher Lavvne and others against the English exiled Church at Amsterdam WHen it pleased the Lord Iesus to reveale the vvord of his truth unto the Gentiles by the ministerie of his servants the Apostles there arose up adversaries to vvithstand the same and to abuse his vvitnesses thereof VVhē Paul and Barnabas vvere sent forth by the Lord to preach the Gospel to the nations they cōming to Paphus the Deputie Sergius Paulus called them unto him and desired to heare the vvord of God then Sathan stirred up his instrument Elymas a false Prophet and a sorcerer vvho vvithstood them sought to turne avvay the Deputie from the fayth Act. 13 6-10 The like also did some of the Ievves at Antiochia vvho seeing the vvord of God to prevayle amongst the Gentiles and them desirous of further instructiō therein vvere full of envie spake against those things vvhich vvere spoken of Paul contradicting blaspheming ver 45. Like enemies did Paul again finde at Ephesus of the Ievves For he having spoken boldly in their Synagogue for the space of three moonths disputing persvvading the things concerning the kingdome of God then certaine of the Ievves having their harts hardened not onely disobeyed and beleeved not the vvord but spake evill of that vvaie before the multitude Act. 19.8.9 And manie other the like exāples of men opposing against the vvord of truth and of haters persecuters of the professors thereof might be shevved both out of the Scriptures and ecclesiasticall histories And as then it vvas in the first opening of the light to the Gentiles that Sathan by his Ministers vvithstood the preaching thereof so novv since that the Lord in mercie hath discovered the man of sinne and caused his truth obscured by the darke mistes of Poperie againe to be revealed to us in these last tymes sending his first Apoc. 14.6 c. second and third Angels to preach an everlasting Gospel to thē that dvvell on the earth that vvere overspread in Apostasie vvith the errors abhominations of the man of sinne and to teach us to vvalke in the vvaies of God calling us from the vvorship of the beast and receiving of his marke to keepe the commandements of God and the faith of Iesus c. even novv also I say have there risen up enemies of all sortes to stoppe this vvaie of truth to reproch vexe and persequute the vvitnesses thereof For to passe by all those hard speaches and ungodly deeds that have bene since before the dayes of Luther against the Saincts and faith of Iesus I vvill come to our ovvne particular case and state vvhereof there be manie of us that by experience can give testimonie vvhat hard measure vve have susteyned for the cause of Christ and do still undergoe reproches sclanders railings against and the like as it cannot be unknovven especially to our countrimen vvhat vve have borne at the handes of some of them vvho have manie times vvaies smitten us vvith their tongues Ier. 18.18 besides all the other troubles and persecutions susteyned by us to imprisonment banishment and death it self And vvhat is it for but because according to the measure of grace given us from above vve have separated our selves frō such corruptions of Antichrist vvherein vve formerly stood and doe vvalke in the vvaie of the Lord revealed uuto us out of his vvord vvitnessing against all false vvaies and devises of men brought into the Church for the vvorship service of God our desire and indevour being to stand and plead for that old and good vvaie of God vvherein all are bound to vvalke Ier. 6.16 For if the opposition against us vvere onely and simply for sinne and through an hatred that such men have against sinne then vvould they first begin vvith them selves both to look to their ovvne sinnes and iniquities and to take the like course against the sinnes and
and examples of the godly in former times if these men vvould novv vvithout prejudice examine their opinions and courses aforesaid they should finde it high time for them to make a stand to observe the vvork of God upon them to giue thēselues no rest till they haue forsaken their errours redressed their crooked waies be they othervvise never so pleasing unto thē or auncient with thē So should they in deed keep the auncient fayth and vvalk in the old and good vvay prescribed of God Let them therefore hearken to the instruction and counsel given unto them Let the vvaie of God be in their heart and his feare before their eyes Let them thinke on their owne vvaies and turne their feet unto his testimonies Let them make hast and not delay to keepe his cōmmandements Psal 119.59.60 And to this end let them about the things spoken of consider well of these two poynts 1. of the questions themselues that haue ben and are betvveen us and therein especially of those differences vvhereabout they severed themselues from us 2. of the charge layd upon the Pastors and Elders over the flock committed unto them by the Lord and of the dutie required of the people agayne tovvards the Governours vvhom the Lord sets over them in his stead Of the first I haue treated here and in another treatise before written about the exposition of Mat. 18.17 For the latter see these the like Scriptures throughout the book of God Exod. 20 12. 2 Chron. 26 16-21 Act. 20 17 28. Rom. 12 3-8 1 Cor. 12 28. Ephes 4 11-16 Col. 4 17. 1 Thes 5 12 13. 1 Tim. 5 17-21 and 6 13.14 Tit. 2 15. Iam. 5 14. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Rev. 2 3. Heb. 13 17. And novv to conclude besides all the former things we entreated them also that seing the same matter vvas then in hand both betvveene Mr. Amsworth and Mr. Bernard and betvveene Mr. Robinson and Mr. Bernard that therefore they vvould stay to see vvhat this vvay might come to passe for the more clearing of the poynts in difference betvveen us and our better accord thereabout But they vvould not be perswaded so to doe And then finally after a yeeres dispute publikly had by vvord of mouth Once a vveek cōmonly all the other meanes used among us I offered in the end as I said before to try out the matter in vvriting betvveen us and gaue forth unto them the observations vvhich then I had collected about Mat. 18.17 Which since are printed VVhich they both heard publikely read and had them to copy out afore they went avvay from us yet vvould they not yeeld hereunto But vvhen vve had appoynted another day in the vveeke about these things then had they some speach of divers particulars in the foresaid vvriting vvhereabout also vve spake agayne and so some speach passed between us thereabout but to giue ansvver unto it in vvriting they vvould not be perswaded Neyther vvould they continevve any longer with the Church but vvith great sinne and scandal divided themselues from us vvhich they professed that day December 15. and 16. 1610. practised the next and so haue continued ever since alledging the saying of the Apostle to the Romans Rom. 16 17 VVhich is so direct against themselues and for us as I vvill novv alledge no other Scripture at all against the division and scandals caused by them but leaue them even by this to be judged of their ovvne mouth VVhich they shall doe vvell to laye to heart to ponder seriously with themselues seeing that by the very Scripture vvhich thēselues alledged all are bound to marke them and avoyde them as having made division and offences contrarie to the doctrine vvhich we haue learned of the Prophets and Apostles of the Lord. Rom. 16 17. Thus haue I more largely then I thought vvritten hereabout and doe novv leaue it to your vvise and godly consideration as it shall please the Lord by his vvord and spirit to direct and persvvade you therein Farevvell in the Lord vvho remembreth his people in their base and distressed estate and giveth an issue vvith every tentation vvho also vvill deliver us from everie evill vvorke preserue us to his heavenly kingdome by Christ our Redeemer to vvhom be glorie for ever and ever Amen His grace be with you and his strong consolation in your spirit for ever Amen Yours Francis Iohnson THus good Reader I haue set downe M. Iohnsons Answer to the objections conteyned in M. A. letter and the printed copie about the division aforesayd Now I will here also annexe a note that vvas printed heretofore concerning these things vvhich being first discussed vvere then agreed upon by the Church The note is this as follovveth ¶ A NOTE OF SOME THINGS CALLED into question and controverted in the exiled English Church at Amsterdam By this course vve had much cōtention trouble c. It being held among us that such as vvere to be dealt vvithall publikly for sinne should not be admonished by the Elders vvhereupon the proceeding against them if they persisted therein might follovve but that the peoples consent vvas first to be taken afore the Elders did so admonish any such persons This poynt about admonition vvas handled and thus agreed upon from 2 Chron. 19 8 9 10. Deut. 17 8-13 1 Thes 5 12. c. to this effect viz. THat it is the dutie of the Elders in the publike administration of governement in matters brought to the Church to admonish the sinners and unrepentant vvithout requiring the people their consent first VVhich admonition of the Elders being despised the parties upon it are to be excōmunicated Our boūden duty in the Lord and freedome according to his vvord Both are to be respected observed aright And all the brethren are bound to consent unto such just rebuke or admonition given by the Elders as to the publike doctrine of the Church And consequently they are to assent unto all other the just administration of the Governours they being able to justify the same by the word of God And agayn the people haue libertie to except against and evince vvherein the Elders doe unjustly without warrant As also in all good order without disturbance and under correction they may aske resolutiō of their doubts And so by this meanes all popular confusion is avoyded libertie in the truth reteyned Also after much and often reasoning about our practise and understanding of Mat. 18 15 16 17. it vvas agreed by the Church That vve etred in the understanding of that Scripture namely in these particulars follovving First in that vve haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church c that they may not be understood of the Ievves Synedrion nor of the Christian Presbyterie or Eldership And this moreover so as some among us vvill by the word Church in that place haue understood men vvomen and children in ther ovvne persons meaning by
children such of them as are able to rejoyce and sorrovve with others And vve note this to be of telling men women and children in their ovvne persons because otherwise it is graunted that the Congregation is told according to order and rules of governement in the telling of the Elders And here it is to be remembred hovv it hath often ben signifyed that vvhether wee understand those words of telling the Church thus Tell the Congregation to weet according to the rules and order of governement appointed by God in his word Note here that the Elders sit in a publick place vvhere all that vvill may come and be present c. or thus Tell the Congregation of Elders not hindring or infringing any right or libertie of the brethren these come both to one end being rightly understood And about these things haue ben alledged these the like Scriptures Mat. 18 17. cōpared with Mat. 5 22. Deu. 21 18-20 Num. 35 12 24.25 with Deu. 19 11-18 Iosh 20 4-6 1 Sam. 2 25. Psal 82 1. Prov. 26 26. in the LXX compared with the Original Deut. 1 9-17 and 16 18. and 17 9-12 and 25 7 8 9 with Ruth 4 1-11 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Act. 6 11-13 and 20 17 18. Rom. 12 4-8 Luk. 12 42. 1 Cor. 4 1 2. and 5. chap. with Lev. 20 11. and Deut. 17 4-7 1 Cor. 6 1-5 12 28. 1 Thes 5 12-14 1 Tim. 3 5. and 5 17-21 Heb. 13 17. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Secondly vve haue erred in that we haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church if he heare not the Church c. that the partie offending should not vvithout taking consent of the people be admonished by the Elders wherupon to proceed against him And that the sinner vvas not to be excommunicated Viz. the admonition so giuen by the Elders as is afore sayd for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely Touching vvhich vve haue agreed heretofore that vve erred from these Scriptures 2 Chron. 19 8.9.10 and 1 Thes 5 12. compared with Deut. 17 8-12 c. And here agayne it is to be remembred hovv it hath ben shevved that the speaches of telling the Elders and of the casting out of persons for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely are to be understood in respect of ministration and governement committed unto them by Christ and the Church and not so to be taken as to exclude the Church or Christ the head for vvhom they doe administer but that vve should alvvay understand obserue these things according as in Israel in the due proportion and perpetuall equitie thereof and according to the Scriptures here alledged in this and the other particular aforesayd and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their assent or any right that doth apperteyne unto thē by the vvord of God but to doe all things according to the rules prescribed therein as before hath ben shevved To vvhich ende likevvise it is to be remembred how it hath ben often signified and declared that the povver of the holy things of God given to the Church is properly and primarily Christs secundarily and by communication the Churches instrumentally and ministerially the Officers vvho are the Ministers of Christ and the Church And that thus vve would still be understood As also that thus the admonition being given as is aforesayd may be sayd to be the admonition of Christ of the Church of the Elders in divers respects according as is sayd before Thirdly cōcerning that rule in general we have had this errour among us that it hath ben understood to be a newe rule for the time of the Gospel which Israel had not VVhereabout may be considered cōpared together these and the like Scriptures as followeth Mat. 18.15 with Lev. 19 17. Prov. 25.9.10 Also Mat. 18.16 with Deu. 19.15 and 17.6 Ioh. 8 17. 2 Cor. 13 1. And Mat. 18 17. with Mat. 5.22 Deut. 21.18 19 20. Numb 35 12-30 with Deut. 19 12-17 c. together with the other Scriptures mentioned here before in the other particulars as in them may be seen And for all these things if any can shew us better or othervvise by the vvord of God vve shall God willing be readie to yeeld unto it THus vvas the Churches agreement about these things VVhere note that the first of these about admonition by the Elders was sooner agreed upon there being but fevv in respect that excepted and stood against it vvhen some of the chief of them yeelded unto it The latter about our practise understanding of Mat. 18 17. was verie long debated among us and after much reasoning had thereabout vve vvere often and earnestly urged by the Opposites to giue sentence and come to an yssue about it So in the end vve agreed concerning it as here before is set dovvne VVhich vvhen vve had done they signifyed their dissent and that they could no longer vvalke vvith us practising accordingly And so aftervvard they vvent avvay and left us And this is the very cause of their departing from us vvhatsoever other thing be alledged by them or any other thereabout And this I intreat the Reader vvell to obserue because othervvise reading their foresayd differences and objections in the letter and printed copie vvhereabout they haue busied themselues so much he may take them for causes of their separation which in deed vvere not And whereas thus it pleaseth thē to trouble mens mindes with their positions and intend in the setting of thē dovvne to cause disgrace to this poor Church which they so unjustly haue left as if we had apostated and left the auncient sayth it shall be good for them to try and warrant those their positions and differences as also their separation from us by the touchstone of the vvord of God as now by the answer thereunto given they are occasioned to doe And vvithall let them shew out of the Scripture hovv it can be vvarranted that a minister vvho hath not himself received true baptisme may administer the Lords Supper or that a people not having true baptisme may receive the Lords supper as these haue done seeing themselues deny the baptisme of the Church of Rome By this opiniō the Martyrs of later yeeres had not true baptisme c. so consequently of other Churches in Apostasie to be true baptisme If the example of Christ be considered vvho first instituted and ministred the Lords supper himself he had received true baptisme before Mat. 3 16. with 26.26.27.28 The like may be observed about his Apostles namely about Paul vvho vvas first baptised afore he received or administred the Lords supper Act. 9.18 with 20.11 and so in others from time to time By vvhich themselues may perceiue vvhat a continuall profanation of Gods holy things is among them that so minister or receiue not having true baptisme and the Reader may discerne hovv needfull it had ben for them better to haue thought of their positions and objections
against us afore they had thus vvritten and given them forth And this I thought good here to mention together vvith that vvhich is before noted about it that both themselues and others may by this occasion duly consider of their estate and dealing Pa◠54 c. And here for this purpose also it vvill not be unfit in this place to annexe the judgment of Mr. Iunius concerning the Church of Rome as I sayd here before I vvould VVhich the Readers shall do vvell duly to consider both for their ovvne better information and for the better discerning and judging of the opinions and differences that are at this day-thereabout not onely among the Anabaptists and such as are affected Anabaptistically but even among Protestants also our selues and others differing in some things about this matter Thus therefore it is as followeth THE IVDGMENT OF M. FRANCIS IVNIVS concerning the Church of Rome Lib. singulari de Eccles contra Bellarminum cap. 17. And in his vvorks printed in fol. p. 1018.1019 c. Of the Church of Rome BEing to treat of the Church of Rome vve wil first unty the knot of the aequivocatiō of the word before we determine of the thing it self that all men may better perceiue what it is that is at this day called in question amongst us For very many are deceived vvith the homonymie or aequivocation of the verie word and unavvares insnare themselues and others by the ignorance of the deceitfulnes in the speach The church of Rome therefore is properly so called or abusiuely by the misterming or abusing of the name both as it is called a church as it is called the Romane church For as it is called the Romane church sometymes it properly signifyeth the companie vvhich is at Rome as Paul spake vvriting to the Romanes sometimes it signifieth abusiuely all the churches on the earth that cleaue to the Romane church according to the forme of doctrine and constitution thereof But vve vvill treat of the church as it is indeede the church of Rome and the things vvhich vve shall speak of this church the same may the godly reader by proportion understand of the church so called by abuse of speach Now as it is called a Church vvhich thing chiefly is in controversie it is so termed three maner of vvayes as a subject as an accident growing to the subject and as the subject together vvith that his accident As a subject it is the simple or single Church of Rome As an accident growing upon the subject is the papacie or the papall hierarchie vvhich they call ecclesiasticall As a subject compounded with his accident it is the church of Rome become papall or under the Pope that is to say corrupt as I may so speake by that lavvles or unnaturall shoot of the Pope springing out of the stock Novv of each of these vve vvill consider so briefly as may be one after another The Church of Rome when it is considered as a subject it hath tvvo parts the pastors and the flock of Christ for vvhich church the Apostle of old gaue thanks to God by Iesus Christ because her fayth vvas published throughout the vvhole vvorld Rom. 1 8. And for vvhich vve also dayly aske of God in our prayers that he vvould informe it to vvorship him by his spirit in the Gospel of his sonne to establish it in fayth Neyther doe vve deny this subject to be at Rome by the mercie of God even at this day because vve trust there is God calling persons called and the calling it self yet in her the meeting of vvhich things together in one giveth being to a church Chap. 8. c. as before vve shewed But touching the papacie or the papall hierarchie which they are vvoont to call ecclesiasticall vve doe not say that it is the church properly so called but an accident grovving unto the church and such as covertly vvorketh against the life and health of the Church That it is not the church properly is proved by the very definition of the papacie and of the Church of God For the papacie according to his generall is an order the church is a companie or an assemblie The papacie by his difference is an order positiue humane or from men and naught The church is an assemblie divine or from God by divine authoritie vvith reason united together Novv those things which differ both in their generall and in their essentiall difference and in their necessarie conditions or properties they cannot be one and the same thing And that the papacie is an accident grovving upon the Church experience it self speaketh For the subject is before his accident which is contigent and separable The church vvas many ages vvhen the papacie vvas not The papacie came to the church contingently beside the being of the Church and so may be separated from it as at this time also there are churches vvhere the papacie is not there vvill be churches still hereafter vvithout the papacie Therefore the papacie is not the church but it is an evill grovving up in the church a pestilence a dropsie the gangrene in the bodie deceiptfully working against the life and health of it and therefore most noysomely eating up the liuely and wholsome moysture of the church But of this vvhole matter vve haue spoken in the 3. Controversie in this fourth we are to speak of it hereafter Therefore concerning the other vvhich remayneth let us see whether the papall Romane church or that which is of the pope be the church The opinions vvhich are about this matter are divers The popish generation cry out vvith full mouth that it is absolutely the church Others not beholding a different regard of the papacie from that vvhich is the church deny it to be the church VVe relying both on the nature of the thing and on the authoritie of the Scripture doe put a difference The nature of the thing doth teach that the church is one thing and that the papacie is another as vve spake a litle before The authoritie of the Scripture teacheth the church but it teacheth not the papacie therefore they are divers things For they delude undoubtedly I say they delude vvhich require at our hands one definition of the subject of the accident as of one singular thing or obtrude it on us For thus must vve say The papall church as it hath that in it vvhich belongeth to the definition of a church it is a church but as it hath in it the evill grovven unto it which vve call the papacie in that respect it is not a church but a faultie defloured and a corrupt church and dravving on to destruction Let us make it playne by a similitude The bodie it self is one thing the corruption or putrefaction in the bodie another thing and the corrupted or puttrefied bodie another thing The bodie is the subject the corruption or putrefaction is the evill accident cleaving unto the subject the corrupted or putrifyed
povver right and libertie that the saincts and people out of Office have and should use in elections not onely at first when they have no Officers but alvvayes after in other elections also even vvhen they have Officers over them Lastly seeing our doctrine overthrovveth not the constitution of the church of Israel afore Christ nor of the primitive Churches after Christ it caÌ„ not therefore overthrovv the constitution of our Church or of any other that is accordingly built upon the foundation of the Apostles Prophets Iesus Christ himself being the head corner stone Ephess 2 19 20. By all vvhich you may see hovv vayne frivolous this their exception is To which may be referred the first sixt and seventh of the Objections in the printed copie And so touching them observe the things spoken of here and in the foresaid Treatise upon Mat. 18.17 For the third it being of much like nature vvith the second before the same ansvver that is there given may suffice for it Yet thus much I vvill acquaint you vvith further that the like thing being objected here against me and vvritten of unto us from the church at Leyden I gave this ansvver unto it viz that the Church may excommunicate any Officer deserving it as well as any other member Also that if all the Officers doe joyntly transgresse and so persist then the Church which did chuse them may also depose and refuse them for beeing their Officers any longer may separate themselues from them But that the people may excommunicate all their Officers or whole Eldership together I desired to see it shewed and warranted from the word of God This vvas then ansvvered sent froÌ„ hence in a generall letter to the church at Leyden as is knovven unto them and vvas by Mr. Ainsw himself also subscribed at that time for my ansvver hereunto hovvsoever novv they speake not of it So far as chusing reacheth which being not an action of government may be done by people out of office so far also may the refusing goe And vvhatsoever in extraordinarie cases is attempted further must be approved by the vvord of God that so it may be admitted And novv for the exception it self vvhich is here the third but in the printed copie is the first note these things moreover concerning it that the particulars of the 23 Article of our Confession here alledged being found true in the Churches of Israel before Christ and of the Gentiles since Christ the exception made hereabout can not be of vvaight against this or any other Church established according to the vvord of God as those vvere but must be also against those churches vvithall For which see consider the Scriptures alledged in the Confession for confirmation thereof And observe here also whether it can be shewed by those or any other Scriptures that any in Israel or in the primitive Churches did ordeyne Officers or depose or excomunicate eyther theÌ„ or any vvicked persons deserving it but such as vvere Governours and Officers among them Which scripture vve have indeed thus alledged heretofore If any insist upon Numb 8.9.10 which of all other places is the likest or onely like to be objected because there it is sayd the children of Israel shall put their hands upon the Levites then note also further that by this phrase of speach of the children of Israel and other such speaches of the men of Israel the tribes of Israel and the like in the Scriptures are the Elders of Israel often meant understood As for example in another the like case they vvhich are called the Elders of Israel Lev. 9.1 are in the same chapter called the children of Israel Lev. 9.3 where the Septuagint have in both places alike the Senate or Eldership of Israel As also Iosh 7.23 where the Hebrevv hath the children of Israel the Greek translation hath the Elders of Israel And verie reason it self teacheth so to understand it For othervvise hovv should so many hundred thousand of Israel as then vvere of the people eyther at once heare or doe the things there spoken of And if it be sayd some did it for the rest of Israel then I aske first vvho those some vvere but the Elders vvhom Israel novv had Exo. 3.16 and 4.29 Lev. 9.1 c. and secondly under vvhom they did it but under the Lord vvho set them over the people to minister governe in his stead Exod. 20 12. Num. 11 16-30 Deu. 1 9-18 and 16.18 and 17 12. and 19 12.17 c. So likevvise they vvhich are called the men of Israel Ios 9 6 7 14. are in the same chapter called the Princes of the Congregation Ios 9 15 18 19 21. And they vvhich are called the tribes of Israel 2 Sam. 7.7 are othervvhere called the Iudges of Israel 1 Chron. 17.6 In like maner that vvhich is sometimes said to be done by the people Exod. 20.18 19. 1 Sam. 8.7 10 19 21. is othervvhere said to be done by the Elders Deut. 5.23 1 Sam. 8 4. In vvhich places actions common reason also teacheth so to understand the speaches as vvas shevved before And in like sort may be observed hovv the vvord Church or Congregation is divers times used for the Assemblie or Congregation of Elders Num. 35 12 24 25 29. with Deut. 19 11.13.16.17 and 31.28.30 Iosh 20.4.5.6 Psal 82.1 1 Chron. 29.1.6 with 28.1 c. as is noted in the other Treatise on Mat. 18.17 And many such Synechdochicall speaches vvhere the name of the vvhole is given to a part may be observed in the Scriptures VVhich vvhiles men vvill needs understand according to the letter they grow into many errours some one vvaie some another as others also doe in other things mistaking figurative speaches as if they were spoken and should be understood literally And thus much I thought to vvrite further hereabout And this also that they should better observe the clauses particularly expressed in the article spoken of Conf. art 23. as namely that the electing and ordeyning of the Officers is to be according to the rules in Gods word prescribed that deposition likevvise is to be by due order and that the cutting off by excommunication must be done orderly VVhich clauses as they bynde us to shew by the Scriptures that the people not being in office may chuse their Officers as is proved both there and in the Apologie heere cited pag. 46.47 so doe they also binde these persons thus making exception to shevv out of the vvord of God like rules practise or vvarrant of ordination deposition and excommunicatioÌ„ ministred and performed by pâ—ople out of office VVhich till they doe vvhat vveight or use is there of their exceptions save that it turnes to be a meanes for the truth to be better found out and more cleared from tyme to tyme. For the fourth it is of like nature vvith the second and third herebefore vvhere therefore see the ansvvers And if they vvould here imply a
omit divers things needful to be knowē and remembred As first vvhat the thing it self is that was propounded by us namely that for such as could not be content with protestation peaceably to walke with eyther Church at Leyden or here it should be free for them to goe from the one Church and Pastor to the other so as there were no other cause lying against them This vvas in deed propounded by my self having much thought and considered vvhat I could of any lavvfull meanes by vvhich we might come to some good end and agreement after our so long and lamentable troubles and contentions as vve had ben exercised withall VVhich when I had propounded they of Leyden answered that they were glad to hear of such a motion litle thinking that we had ben so inclyning to peace and agreement This to my remēbrance was the effect of the things that passed here about which if they had thought they should haue caryed themselues otherwise towards us then they had done And for the thing it self that they would consider of it with their Church and if eyther they or we mynded otherwise by the word of God that we should signify it VVhich caution being thus spoken of by them my self then said as I remember that I had thought so to haue spoken also concerning it but had forgottē when I spake to mention it And so then it vvas minded of us both to be considered of and prosequuted vvith this condition and limitation of being found lawfull by the word of God And let this for hereafter be still remembred because it vvill cleare all the question about this matter Secondly at the first treating of this matter between us the Officers of the Church of Leyden then present did so conceiue it as that our people which would not walk with this Church as is aforesaid should goe and remayne vvith them at Leyden VVhich some of them here observing excepting against it in respect of their meanes of living had here c. they were answered by them of Leyden that they must be cōtented to suffer or beare the crosse of Christ vvith them or to such effect Then also concerning the course aforesaid there vvas noted a double consideration about it The one about the doing of it so The later is the poynt which they doe so much urge as to live and remayne with the other Church whither they should goe The other about the doing of it so as that having once gone and joyned thewselues to the other Church they might then returne agayne to the towne where they lived before and there live apart from the Church whereof they had formerly ben And hereupon having speach about these tvvo courses the first vvas sooner conceired of and generally liked of all the latter vvas lesse conceived of and more called in question as aftervvard did appeare though for myne ovvn part I did my self so minde and like of it at that time And vvhen some among us propounded that such as vvent from us to Leyden and joyned to that Church should not be dismissed back by them againe to live apart from us in this tovvne both my self and the Elders of the other Church to my remembrance answered that this matter vvould concerne that Church to which they should joyne to look unto and so vvas to be left unto them But afterward considering yet further of the lavvfulnes of such dismission thither hither agayne I shewed my minde herein to be altered divers reasons thereabout Of vvhich I shall speak hereafter vvhen I come to that matter Thirdly vvhen the matters aforesaid vvhich vve had propounded vvere communicated vvith the Church at Leyden and their Elders returned hither againe they signifyed that these things came sodainly upō their Church yet for the present as they could in that tyme cōsider thereof they liked vvell of it or to such effect So now againe at this tyme we had more speach together thereabout The former of the tvvo courses as I said before vvas generally vvell approved and consented unto The latter vvas more doubted of and more question made about it in the end more more disliked by divers the more that it was perceived to be the brethrens purpose so to doe And this most appeared the next morning when the likelyhood of agreement that vvas the night before was then so changed upō further reasoning and consideration thereof as we could not accord therabout And so the Officers of the other Church signifying that they had great occasion to returne home and could then no longer stay departed and said it vvould be heavie to their Church to heare that the things vvere come to no better issue between us Yet vvhen they were gone we still continued speach among our selues about these things being sorie that they stood thus and that no better tidings should be caried to the other Church And then upon some speach so had together as vve could in that short time we came to this issue that we thought it best to agree upon the matter aforesaid in this sort that whatsoever blame should follovve hereupon if our people vvere by them of Leyden dismissed to liue here apart from us in this citie it should lye upon them and vve be free of it And so thereupon we presently sent three vvith this message after the brethren of Leyden if they could overtake them in tyme to signifie thus much unto them that they might also signifie it unto their Church And this I thinke is the agreement spoken of VVhich vvhen it vvas in this manner agreed upon some of the brethren present there being then but a sevv at that tyme came to the Elders shewing hovv they thought it needfull that this should be spoken of the Lords day after others say to this day they never consented unto it and some that they said then it vvas unlavvfull And these men thē selues it may be vvould be loth to stand to their ovvn positions about it that in a controversie the greater part should be the Church whether the Elders be vvith them or against them and that the matters of sinne and question touching the brethren should be heard and ended on the Lords day But I vvill proceede on to other matters that follovved aftervvard about these things Fourthly vvhiles things stood thus mōg us we had the Lords day following speach hereabout againe at vvhich tyme there vvas a nevv motion made for an other course to be taken by which we might keep together rather then to part asunder according to the other course spoken of VVhich being then propounded and not agreed upon vvas left to further consideration And so that week vvee wrote to the Church of Leyden thereabout By vvhich occasion after the aforesaid treating of these things had by vvord of mouth there passed also some letters betvveen us concerning them VVhich although in divers respects vve could be willing to keep among our selues yet considering in vvhat
the truth of God or his imperfectiō the perfection of God Farre be it off yea let God be true everie man a lyer sayth the Apostle in the same place VVe vvill make the matter playne by an example and similitude out of the vvords of Ieremie chap. 3. A vvife being filthie vvith adulteries if her husband vvill pardon her and consent to receiue her and to dvvell vvith her she abideth still the vvife of her husband not by her ovvne deede doone for she hath broken wedlock vvhat in her vvas but by the benefit or goodnes of her husband So a Church overflovving not onely vvith lighter infirmities but also vvith heavie adulteries on her part in deed should cease to be a vvife but she ceaseth not on her husbands part For touching the election as the Apostle sayth Rom. 11.28 she is beloved for the fathers sakes speaking of the church of the Iewes It is a church so long as God calling her proclaymeth that vvhich is in Ier. 3.13 Onely acknowledge thine iniquitie that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God and hast scattered thy waies to the straungers under everie green tree and ye haue not obeyed my voyce sayth the Lord. Turne ô backslyding people sayth the Lord for I am maryed unto you I will take you c. It is so long a church as God protesting calleth upon it departing from him and being rebellious as it is in Esa 50 1. Where is the bil of your mothers divercement wherewith I put her away or who is there of my creditours to whom I sould you c. The church then at length ceaseth to be a church vvhen God ceaseth to call it back taketh avvay the evidence of that holie marriage that is the holie Scripture out of the hand of the adulteres and her that is stubburne testifying that the matrimonie is dissolved on his part and so receiveth the covenant of grace unto himself It is not for any man to deny that to be a church which God calleth a church Neyther is it for any man to call that a church vvhich God having giuen the bil of divorce and taken avvay the draught of the mariage contract denyeth so to be And after this maner doe vve esteeme of the Church in vvhich the papacie is God calleth her vvith his calling by his spirit and vvord and the publike records of that holie mariage vvhich vve call the holie Scripture and the ministerie and things and holy actions vvhich before vve haue briefly reckoned up These things doe remayne to that church most manifestly on Gods behalf But in that on the behalf of men all these things and holie actions together vvith the verie persons themselues abound and overflovve vvith most grievous deadly corruptions that is the sinne of men not the fault of God vvhose grace truth is perfected in infirmitie On Gods part she is yet called Hammi my people and Ruchama finding mercie which most truly on her part might be called Lo hammi not my people and Lo ruchama not obteyning mercie as vve read in Hosea the Prophet But vve rely upon the mercie of God and according to his grace revealed vve speake our minde or vve giue our sentence concerning a church erring and going astray But this Church hath everie thing in it corrupt I confesse it But in that it hath all the divine things in the Scritures it is of God in that it hath them all corrupt that is of it self in that it hath all the divine things it is a church in that it hath the same all corrupt it is a corrupt church The church is not taken avvay by corruption unles it be totall as they speak vvhich they call destruction A corruption that is in part doth not take avvay a Church but vveaken it The Church of Rome hath all things corrupt but not altogether this is not a destruction but is to be called a corruption of it in part For to prosecute these heads particularly vvhich vvee haue briefly noted in the consideration of the Church God by the alone presence of himself calling doth lay the foundation of the Church in Christ the head thereof The church of Rome addeth another foundation to this foundation and to this head another nevv head vvhereupon it is called papall or popish vvherein it may likevvise rest The calling is to God alone in the church of Rome there is calling to others vvith God and the calling upon them Here is calling by the spirit and Scripture alone vvhence it receiveth the ministerie delivereth nothing more thē that vvhich it hath received from the Lord there it receiveth a ministerie from the spirit of Christ of the Pope from the Scripture and the ragged traditions of men here finally the persons things and actions are caried according to the doctrine of the Spirit the Scripture onely there all things are taken and exercised out of the Popes changeable shoppe and at his beck as they say they stand and fall So all the marks on Gods behalf are in it but for it self on it ovvne part as they say there is no marke intire no marke that is not corrupt by the papall poysonfull sorcerie and the order of all things most miserably perverted For vvhich cause in Lyons in France a certayne Frier did merrily preach to the people vvhen he sayd the Hugonots for so they are called in France did consent vvith the church of Rome in all their articles of fayth but there was one shrevvd vvord the vvord Onely at the crack vvhereof vvarre vvas inkindled for they beleeue onely vvhat the rule of fayth hath out of the holie Scriptures but the church of Rome requireth more unto fayth then is eyther conteyned in the rule of fayth or in the holie Scriptures because such is the authoritie of the Church These things being vvell understood all men vvill easely perceiue hovv that church in respect of God or on Gods part is yet a church but of it self is most corrupt very nere to destruction But here doe arise tvvo doubts difficulties by vvhich the mindes of many are troubled The first doubt is vvhat vve are to judge of the members of that church The latter vvhat the dutie of them is vvho are in that church and see the great corruptions thereof To the first question we ansvver on this manner A threefold judgment had neede meet together in this cause the first of truth the second of charitie the third of prudence or vvisdome The judgment of truth is of the common condition of the church by vvhich vve judge frō the calling of God that as yet she is a church The judgement of charitie is of the severall mēbers of the church by vvhich we presume they be members of the church whilst they are called vvith the calling of God and are in this way as David calleth it Psal 2. The judgement of prudence or vvisdome is that by vvhich vve discerne and distinguish persons things
and actions divine from humane good ones from evill true ones from false and the degrees of these also amongst themselues For as of things actions so also of persons some are corrupting through ignorance infirmitie or malice vvholly or in part others are corrupted euen in the simplicitie of their hearts as the Scripture speaketh and of these there are a great number of vvhom it vvere ungodly to esteeme that they vvere not of the church of God Of such as doe corrupt we must take heed Mat. 7. of the corrupted vvho yet are still corrupted vve must haue compassion But the Church verely is not to be judged of the maner of either of these for Christ saith not ye shall not knovve the Church but by their fruits of doctrine and life ye shall knowe them Mat. 7.20 And vvithout doubt they doe very unvvisely who judge of the truth of a church by the particular life or doctrine of any men vvho ever they be especially of private men for the calling of God maketh the church not the assenting ansvver of the men that are in it as on the other side the church ceaseth not to be a church for the refusal or denial of men vvheresoever the calling of God is Novv let us come to the second demaund VVhat is the dutie of those vvilt thou say that are in the Popish Church and see the grievous corruptions of it Their dutie is such as of those children vvhich dvvell together vvith their adulterous mother for God used this similitude in Esaie and Ieremie as vve haue seene before A vvise sonne vvill even from his heart abhorre the sinne of his mother he vvill vvith speach and signe call back his mother from evil and he vvill absteyne himself from it and in all things he vvill cleaue to his father he vvill stand to his judgement he vvill obey his vvil and vvhile he can by reason of his mother he vvill cleaue unto her next after his father but vvhiles by reason of her he can not doe it vvith good conscience for the spirituall and bodily injurie of her Closet or Inner roome he vvill betake himself into the chamber of his father vvhere also the church is the mother of us all Gal. 4.26 For this is not a good consequent if one depart from this or that church therefore he doth altogether departe from the church He but trifles vvho doth so from a particular conclude universally A part of the flesh if it be divided or cut asunder from another part by a vvound received is not straight vvay to be thought to be separate or cut off from the vvhole bodie for it is cutte asunder and the mouth of the vvound openeth but neyther part is therfore disjoyned from the bodie A godly sonne therefore ought to cleaue to his father and mother joyntly so long as vvith good conscience he can but because he cānot vvith sound fayth and conscience haue fellovvship with the unfrutefull vvorks of darkenes Eph. 5 11. he rather leaving his mother cleaveth to God his father our Lord Iesus Christ then that he vvill defile himself vvith those foule deedes of his mother And this did our auncestors religiously vvhom the popish tyrannie for some ages hath exercised The godly vvhich vvere at Rome and other vvhere in the church vvhich they call the Romane church abusiuely first learned to abhorre even from their soule the sinnes of their mother vvhen once they began to haue right understanding by vvords and signes they modestly called her back from her naughtie deeds vvhiles she vvould beare them they carefully absteyned themselues from all communication of evill yet in all things cleaving to their father from vvhom in vvhom by vvhom for whom are all things standing to his judgment and obeying his vvill finally they did so long cleaue to their mother next after their father vvhilst by her they could so doe vvith intire fayth and conscience and their ovvne salvation But vvhen they could not longer vvith good fayth and conscience so doe by reason of the violent tyrannie and the spirituall corporall injurie of their furious mother then being ashamed with her shamefulnes resting silent they betooke themselues into their fathers bosome and his inner roome albeit that she pursued them outragiously least they being ashamed of her should be sayd to shame her as strumpets are usually vvoont to doe For which causes I doe humbly beseech God the Father of our Lord Iesus that he would both by his saving calling informe direct and care for his church and vvhatsoever belongeth to his church that he would also teach everie one that is in it his truth and the truth of his church and that he vvould so vvorke as they vvisely absteyning from all evils especially from those vvhich the sonne of perdition and author of the apostasie hath brought in and taking heed of the spirit of lyes the efficacie of his errour they may religiously cleaue unto the Father and his good things in everie of them and to their mother next after the father or so farre as she accordeth vvith the Father that increasing in his truth pietie fayth loue they may bestovve and employe all their studies to the edification of the church the salvation of all and the glorie of that our heavenly Father c. God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ by that eternall spirit of his eternall truth bring to passe that the wiles of Sathan being driven avvay vve may all grovve dayly in Christ in the church and in the truth of Christ and the Church and that vve may more and more confirme one another in loue unfayned to his glorie and the common salvation of us all Amen HItherto Mr. Iunius VVith whom agreeth Amandus Polanus noting some errours of Bellarmines about Antichrist in his Cōmentarie upon Ezech. 39. at the ende thereof pag. 733. VVhere he sayth thus The Messias of the Iewes is not Antichrist but a false Christ whereas the great Antichrist of whom the Scriptures foretell shall professe himself to be a Christian and under the name of Christ fight against Christ because he must sitte in the Temple of God 2 Thes 2.4 in the Temple I say not Iewish or at Ierusalem but Christian that is in the Christian Church as Chrysostome teacheth and Theophylact Ambrose Hilarius Hierome Theodoret Oecumenius Augustine and Thomas Aquinas also See the testimonies sayth he in our Catholick Symphonie chap. 23. Thes 3. And Bartholomeus Keckermannus speaking in a treatise of his of the properties of the church inferreth thus thereupon and sayth Now if we examine the Popish church according to these proprieties it will appeare that it is not a pure Church but verie corrupt like as a rotten apple is in deed an apple but corrupt as a man corrupted with the plague is a man but not a sound man Keckerman Praeparat ad sacram synaxin pag. 83. And divers other the like sayings out of these and other
not to any one or moe members sequestred from the vvhole Now we have been lately taught that the Church which Christ sendeth to for the redresse of sinnes Mat. 18.17 is not to be understood of the whole bodie of the Congregation but of the Church of Elders And it being graunted of all that with the Church is the power the Elders being the Church have the power and so not the whole bodie of the congregation together 2 We had learned 2. Treâ—â— of the Ministerie of Eng. pag. 63. Apol. pag. 63. that everie true Church of Christ hath this povver to cast out obstinate sinners from amongst theÌ„ and this not onely vvhen it hath Officers but also vvhen it vvanteth them But wow we were taught that a people without Officers have not power to cast out obstinate sinners Which doctrine amongst other evils overthroweth the constitution of the Church that so taught for it was gathered and constituted by Christians without Officers receiving in the repentant and casting out the disobedient whereas by this opinion they had power from Christ to doe neyther for they that can not cast out can not receive in one power is for both 3 We had learned that everie Christian Congregation hath povver and commandement to elect ordeyne their ovvn ministerie according to the rules of Gods vvord 3. Confes art 23. 35. Apol. pag. 46. and upon such default in life doctrine or administration as by the rule of the vvord depriveth them of the ministerie by due order to depose them from their ministerie they exercised yea if the case so require orderly to cut them off by excommunication But now it is by some mainteyned that the Congregation can neither put into office nor put out of office unlesse they have officers to doe both and can neyther for heresie nor other vvickednes excommunicate or depose their Eldership 4 We had learned that none may execute a ministerie 4. Confes art 21. but such as are rightly called by the Church vvhereof they stand ministers unto such offices and in such manner as God hath prescribed in his vvord But now those will execute a ministerie which have not rightly been called by the Church whereof they stand Ministers according to their owne account and doctrine which hold as before that a people without Officers have no warrant from God to make or depose Ministers 5 We had learned that it vvas grosse error and notorious absurditie 5. Apol. p. 113. 116 n. 112. either to hold the popish Church to be a true Church having a true ministerie and true Sacraments or els that men must admit of rebaptising But now wee have heard that the Baptisme of the Popish Church is true Baptisme by which we are bound to communion or els that men must be rebaptised and that the Church of Rome is the Church of God because Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God 6 We had learned that all particular Congregations are by all meanes convenient to have the counsel and help one of 6. Conf. art 38. another in all needfull affaires of the Church as meÌ„bers of one bodie in the coÌ„mon faith yet here when differences had arisen about our coÌ„mon faith and could not amongst our selves be coÌ„posed they would not desire nor consent to have desired the help of our sister Church at Leyden althovgh it were instantly urged by many members that their assistance should be had And when without their consent the help of that Church was obteyned they laboured our peace a waie of peace was agreed off between the Churches this agrement and peace was not stood unto but reversed by them contrarie to our wil to the wil and liking of the Church at Leyden as the same Church can testifie for us Wherefore after long disputing these matters when no waie of peace could by us be found to continue together in the truth holynes But lamentable Dissipation of the Church members began to growe to the dishonour of Gods name wounding of our harts we followed the commandement of the Apostle which sayd I beseech you brethren marke them diligently which cause divisions offences contrarie to the doctrine which we have learned and avoyde them Rom. 16.17 And have sithens laboured to build up our selves in the holie faith whereunto God hath called us in love peace mourning for the great scandall and reproch which Sathan hath wrought by this breach amongst us Thus have I shewed you the fountaine of our sorrowes which God for our sinnes hath brought upon us He look upoÌ„ us in mercie pittie the dispersion of Sion And you as you have knowen the truth which is sealed to your conscience so abide therein faithfull unto the end knowing it is the lot of Gods people thus to be exercised with troubles in it self which if we beare with patience and constansie doe overcome our portion shall be in the tree of life which is in the midest of the Paradise of God H. A. THE ARTICLES AND OBIECTIONS About the division vvhich are published in Lawnes discoverie of schisme page 79. c. THe 23 article of the Confession of our faith whereto also our Apologie agreeth page 46.47 professeth that everie Christian congregation hath povver to elect ordeyne their ovvne ministerie c. upon desert againe to depose yea excommunicate them These have defended that a Congregation without Ministers can not ordeyne officers And that if the Eldership fall into heresie or wickednesse the whole Congregation cannot depose nor excoÌ„municate them And that a Congregation without an Eldership cannot excommunicate any wicked person whatsoever 2. The 24 article confirmed in our Apologie page 60.62.63 professeth that the povver to receiue in or to cut off any member is given to the vvhole bodie together of everie Christian Congregation Mat. 18.17 c. These have pleaded for the Eldership to be the Church Mat. 18. to have both rightfull power and able power to excommunicate though without against the consent of the bodie of the Congregation 3. The 29 article as also our Apologie page 51.52 professeth that the Hierarchie of Archbishops Lordbishoppes Priests c. are a straunge and Antichristian Ministerie Officers not instituted by Christs Testament nor placed in or over his Church These have placed over them one that was made Priest by a Lordbishops ordination so as because of it they did not ordeyne or impose hands on him when at the same time they ordeyned and imposed hands on others whom together with him they set over the Church 4. The 31 article and also our Apologie page 109. professeth that such ecclesiasticall assemblies as remaine so in coÌ„fusion bondage under that Antichristian Ministerie Courts Canons c. caÌ„not be esteemed true visible Churches c. These now pleade not onely for them but for Rome it self to be the true Church of God 5. The 32 article whereto our Apologie agreeth page
no weight in it to say Thus we held heretofore now we hold thus unlesse it could be shewed that it is against the word of God that which now is held by us Nay seeing the faith of this Church is that onely which is grouÌ„ded upon the vvord of God in the vvritings of the Prophets Apostles so our faith is the coÌ„mon auncient faith vvhich vvas held by Israel of old by the Primitive churches since the coÌ„ming of Christ it followeth ther uppoÌ„ that vvherin so ever we have swarved in faith or practise therfroÌ„ it hath beÌ„ our aberratioÌ„ not our faith indeed Thirdly concerning the speciall particular in question our auncient profession hath been Cons aâ—t 17. 19. that the Church is to be governed onely by those lawes and Officers that the Lord hath appointed in his word and by none other From vvhich howsoever vve have erred in our practise yet this is our auncient faith so as that vvhich novv vve doe is to reteyne our euncient fayth to reforme our practise according thereunto as vve are bound daily to grow in grace and in obedience of the fayth And for our practise also if vve vvould insist upon it our auncient practise it self vvas othervvise then as lately of a fewe yeeres it had been vvhich later course the people that are departed froÌ„ us vvould have had us to reteyne And so they them selves vvould have had us kept a later and leave our auncienter practise Thus much also vve vvrote to Leyden before the division vvas made then Mr. Ainsvv himself subscribed unto it Fourthly observe in their exceptions against us if they be not almost all of them such as the Anabaptists vvould object in much like manner And a vveake cause it must needs be that relies upon the Anabaptists or anie other erroneous grouds Hovv much better had they done if they had considered vvith themselues that vvheÌ„ Christ himself taught doctrine vvhich was not onely souÌ„d true but evident also coÌ„fortable to such as could understand it aright yet many of his disciples vvhen they heard it said This is an hard saying who can hear it so both murmured at it were so offended with it as they weÌ„t back walked no more vvith him Ioh. 6.60.62.66 Or if they had regarded that which M. Ains hath well observed in his Arrowe pag. 4. against Idolatrie that SathaÌ„ hath separated meÌ„ froÌ„ the Church as by other meanes 1 King 12.27 28.29 Iude v. 19 Heb. 10.25 so also by causing them to withdraw and schisme them selues for some pretented cause or quarrel as did the Israelites others after them c. Fiftly if we should set our selves to make exceptioÌ„s against theÌ„ as they haue done against us we could seÌ„d spread our private letters as they doe accoÌ„panied with more sound better observatioÌ„s against theÌ„ touching such things as have passed amoÌ„g us As for exaÌ„ple a litle to imitate resemble their veyn of vvriting thus Many troublesome daies ful of contentioÌ„ hath God exercised us here together withall vvhiles we could not be brought in singlenes of hart vvith humilitie to obey the governours observe the govermeÌ„t prescribed in his vvord to seek him in the midest of our pilgrimage vvith love peace For love of preeminence which hath always troubled the church hath also troubled us vvhiles the people that should be under the Governors vvould be over above them c. For 1. vvhereas vve had learned professed that Christ was the onely king Lord of his Church Conf. art 10 17.19.20 Conterp pag. 175.176 and in other Treatises every where as Defen against M. Sm. p. 126 127.128 had left uÌ„to it amoÌ„g meÌ„ but a ministerial governmeÌ„t that all the multitude of the meÌ„bers the saincts ought to obey submit to the Eldership in everie church Now we haue lately beÌ„ taught * In their dispute against us in M. Rob. Iustif 217.225 c. that the people as kings have povver one over another and that the saincts being kings are superiour to their Officers because the order of kings is the highest order or estate in the church so an order superior unto above the order of Officers or Eldership Also that the Church may in relatioÌ„ to the Officers being servants therein be called a Lord c. vvhich things they affirme for proof of their opinion touching the points in questioÌ„ betweeÌ„ us about the Churches government And vvheras vve have still professed that the people vvere inferiour and uÌ„der the officers novv vve have had it much urged about the questioÌ„ coÌ„troverted that the people are superior above theÌ„ Thus to advaÌ„ce the people one over another as kings and to make them superlours aboue their Governours and to intitle them with kingly and Lordly power in the outward policie affaires of the Church and members thereof whereas Christ hath given his Church no other but a ministeriall power governement what is it els but in deed to set up such Churches people as so manie Idols Like as Mr. Ainsw sheweth against the Prelates Mr. A. Atrovve against Idol pag. 19. 20. that Idols are set up with impietie when among men one is set up as Head of the Church others as Archbishops and Lords spirituall c. For doth it not thus come to passe that as the Prelates on the one hand so the people on the other hand doe even become Idols whiles both of them runne to extremities in such advauncing of themselves neyther of theÌ„ will keep or be kept in the meane in the ministeriall way which the Lord hath appointed in his word Confes art 24. 2 VVe professed heretofore that Christ gave the power of receiving in cutting off to the whole bodie together of everie Christian Congregation not to any one or most members sequestred from the whole c. Now we haue been taught that in cases of question and controversie the greater part of the people are the Church though all the Elders and other brethren be against them and it being graunted of all that with the Church is the power that greater part of the people though never so erroneously caried being the Church they have the povver and so they may receiue in and cut off though all the Elders and other brethren it may be but one fewer and of much better judgment be against it M. Ains Conterp p. 177. 3. VVe vvrote heretofore that the Elders have the reyns of government committed to them Now wee are taught that the government of the Church is not Aristocraticall yea that the people as kings haue the povver and the greater part of the people though in error are the Church as is noted before And so then by their opinion will follow that the greater part of the people yea that all the people being kings haue the reynes in their
hand may decide stay determine and conclude all matters of controversie in the Church though all the Elders other brethren be against them Cons art 34. Plea for infaÌ„ts p. 180. to 185. CoÌ„teâ—p pag. 177. 4 VVe professed heretofore that no Sacraments should be ministred untill the Pastors or Teachers were chosen and ordeyned into their Office Now it is hield by some that seing all the holie things of God are the Churches and people without Officers are a Church therefore they may without Officers haue the use of the Sacraments and all the holie things of God consequently may receive in by Baptisme confirme by the Lords Supper cast out by excommunication c. And in this writing sent unto you it may be observed how they inferre that people without Officers may cast out and therefore may receive in there being one power for both Conf. art 21. Conterp pag. 176.177 5 VVe had learned that none may usurp or execute a ministerie but such as are rightly called by the Church wherof they stand ministers unto such Offices and in such manner as God hath prescribed in his word Now it is held by some that people out of office may execute all the works and duties of the ministerie for Baptisme Lords Supper CeÌ„sures c. And these men in their second exception here vvrite there is one power for receiving in casting out that people without Officers may doe both as is observed before Conf. art 1.10 17 18 19 21 23 24 25 26 27.34 36. throughout the Conf. Apol other of our Treatises as Defence against Mr. Sm. pag. 10 13 88 c. 6 VVe learned and used heretofore to applie to our estate and use the things that the Scriptures teach concerning the Governours and people in Israel Now vve are excepted opposed against if we doe so vvith these exceptions and the like viz. that they had civill auctoritie and government which the Church hath not that they could not in Israel forgive one anothers sinne as we can now that the people now have more power then in Israel because now we follow Christ into heaven And yet the people were typically caried in by the Hyepriest in the pretious stones on his shoulders brest as the most holy place it self vvas a type of heaven whereas the people might not follow the High priest into the most holie place c. And vvhat if any other vvould say that by like reason the Elders novv should haue more povver then the Elders in Israel because the Elders novv follovv Christ into heaven vvhereas the Elders then might not follovv the high priest into the most holie place And that Kings should have more povver nov in religion then the Kings of Israel because Kings novv follovv Christ into heaven vvhereas the Kings then might not follovv the hiepriest into the most holie place no nor so much as into the holie place to come to the altar to offer incense 2 Chron. 26. And note here also that Christ and the Apostles reasoning from the civil estate of the Governours people of Israel applying the things of it to the kingdome and Church of Christ to the Governours and people of the Church novv should by this nevv learning of these men be thought to misapplie those Scriptures and places so alledged by them As Mat. 21.24 Iohn 10.34 Act. 1.20 Ephes 12.13.19.20.21 and in a number the like places Plea for Infants p. 166.167 268 c. Treat against the Anabap. p 16. c. some grounds tending this way in the Apol p. 108 c. in Answer to M. Iacob p. 7 13 c. 7 VVe held that the Baptisme of Rome vvas as true Baptisme as circumcisioÌ„ in the Apostasie of Israel vvas true circumcision and needed not to be renounced and repeated novv vve vvere taught that the Baptisme aforesaid is an Idol And vve knovv that all Idols yea and all monuments of idolatrie are to be renounced and rejected Esa 30.22 And an Idol is nothing in the wold sayth the Apostle 1 Cor. 8 4. so as then such baptisme is nothing such people are an unbaptised people ought therefore vvith the Anabaptists to get themselues baptised Thus if I would follow their course you may see I could note dovvne some doctrines and assertions not all of the soundest vvhich our opposites have of late delivered and given forth although I have hitherto held my peace there about Neyther vvould I yet publish them if there vvere or might be hope of their repentance and amendement but for your better information concerning them their dealing I have thus imparâ—ed them unto you By vvhich any may consider vvhether it vvere not high time for us to look to these persons and to these things vvhen they vere come to this passe grovven to such an heigth among us Now next for ansvver of their exceptions sent unto you against us though it be not so meet to be done in a private Letter seeing vve have published the causes of the division they made whereunto they have not yet given answer yet have I thought it not amisse upon this occasion and unto you as your case stands to vvrite somevvhat thereabout For the first therefore which is made by comparing together the understanding of Mat. 18 17. with the Confession Art 24. and the Apol. pag. 62.63 I haue already vvritten and published a Treatise concerning the exposition of that Scripture vvhere also the reasons alledged in the Apologie are purposely and particularly treated of to vvhich I referre you thereabout And vvhat dealing is this of theirs that having made such a division as they have done they leave the Treatise unansvvered which was purposely written upon that occasion and argument and yet cease not privately thus to insinuate as they doe Besides if for their vvonted Phrase the Church of Elders they vvould use such termes as othervvhere the Scriptures in our translations haue and as the vvord it self doth signifie namely the Congregation of Elders or the Assemblie of Elders or the like then both themselues others might sooner perceive the vanitie of their error and the light of the truth against theÌ„ Neyther should they forget hovv M. Ainsvvorth himself in his Ansvver to Mr. Bernard shevveth that the vvord is sometime so used for the Congregation or Assemblie of Elders and Governours Mr. Ainsw Conterpoys pag. 113. Lastly you may observe in the Article of our Confession here alledged Conf. art 24. that for the declaration and proof thereof these Scriptures among other are cited Psal 122.3 Lev. 20.4 5. 24.14 Numb 5.2.3 Deut. 13.9 all vvhich doe directly carry us for this matter to the Church of Israel and constitution thereof vvhich novv through love of their error they vvould not be brought unto for the consideration and deciding of the matter betvveen us Observe also hereabout that the povver of receiving in and cutting off given
to the Church of Israel vvas by them used and to be performed according to order and not any vvay to vveaken but to stablish the Elders auctoritie And vve must not be straungers from the policie of Israel Eph. 2.12 c. Yea this verie instruction in Mat. 18.17 is such as it accordeth vvith and hath reference unto the grounds and ordinances of God taught of old by Moses the Prophets as is shevved in particular in the Treatise aforesaid and in the Churches agreement published there about So as their opposition against us therein is indeed against Israel against Moses against the Prophets And vvhether thē it be not also consequently against the Lord and his ordinances prescribed in his vvord let all indifferent men judge Such is their error and so great is their transgression and iniquitie And hitherto of the first Objection vvhich in the printed copie is the second VVhere furthermore observe hovv vvhen they doe here quote the Scriptures alledged for proof of the 24 Article of the Confession they doe it thus Mat. 18.17 c. vvhereas in the Confession it is thus Psal 122.3 c. VVhich is to be noted in divers respects First because it sheweth that at the setting downe of the Confessiō the Scriptures of the old testament were observed for the confirmation of it asvvell as of the newe Secondly that Mat. 18.17 is so to be understood as may agree vvith the other Scriptures namely vvith Psal 122.3 Lev. 20.4.5 and 24.14 Numb 5.2.3 Deut. 13 9. vvhich Scriptures are in this article also alledged and joyned vvith that of Mat. 18.17 Thirdly that it must be understood vvith agreement and proportion to the order and manner of Israel vvhereof these scriptures doe directly speak Fourthly that therefore our understanding of it novv as vve doe is in the truth of the point it self according to our auncient sayth and not theirs vvho vvould make us straungers from Israel and vvould persvvade us that Christs doctrine in Mat. 18.17 is a nevve rule for the Churches novv vvhich Israel had not And that these people therefore have in deed left the ancient faith which thing they object unto others Moreover by the Scriptures asoresayd joyned together and compared vvith the estate of Israel it doth appeare reason it self doth teach it that we must distinguish betweē the sentence of excommunication and betvveen the execution thereof as betvveen the sentence of death of leprosie or the like and betvveen the execution follovving thereupon Novv in Israel the Elders in causes of death the Priests in case of Leprosie had a rightfull povver to give out the sentence of death and of leprosie and the like according to the lavv of God vvithout asking the peoples consent yea and though it should have been vvithout and against the consent of the people vvhom they call here the bodie of the Congregation Deu. 1.16 and 17 8-12 and 24.8 with 2 Chron. 26 16-20 Levit. 13. c. And vvhen the Elders and Priests had so pronounced the sentence according to the vvord of God and dutie of their office then vvas it for the people to performe the execution accordingly as may be seen in the Scriptures aforesaid many other the like Thus also the Elders may now by vertue dutie of their Office give out the sentence of excomunicatiō according to the lavv of God and the people should accordingly put it in execution by avoyding the excōmmunicated persons till they repent c. Or if any of the people can except against the Elders proceeding therein they are to be heard as in the foresaid Treatise upon Mat. 18 17. I have vvrittē heretofore VVhere note further hovv in that Treatise it is often mentioned particularly in our agreement about the understāding of this Scripture of Mat. 18.17 that we should alway understand and observe these things according as in Israel in the due proportion perpetuall equitie thereof and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their assent or any right that doth apperteyne unto them by the word of God but to doe all things accōrding to the rules prescribed therein c. And here let me then aske of this people thus divided hereabout first vvhether in Israel the Lord abridged the people of their right libertie any way in that by his word the Elders and Priests might admonish sinners give sentence of death and leprosie and the like things vvithout asking or taking the peoples consent thereunto Secondly vvhether the people have any more right and authoritie in the Churches government novv then the people of Israel had in those dayes Thirdly vvhether the people of Israel vvere not kings priests even a kingdome of priests and a holie nation asvvel as the Christian people are now Exod. 19 5 6. Psal 149.1 c. with 1 Pet. 2.9.10 Rev. 1.6 Fourthly vvhether the Churches power vvhich the Lord hath given unto it be not a ministeriall povver onely Fiftly vvhether the Elders povver be not ministeriall under the Lord in and for the Church so as it is the Lords primarily the Churches secondarily and the Officers ministerially or instrumentally for the Lord the Church vvhose Officers they are and that therefore there is no vveight in their Objections about the Elders povver as if it vvere not the Churches and that vvhich perteyneth to the bodie of the Congregation but that in deed it is the Churches so to be ministred by the Officers vvhom the Lord hath set in his Church to minister in his name for the Churches use and benefit and that they vvhich oppugne the Officers herein doe not onely oppose against them but even against the Lord the Church for which they vvould seem so much to plead And finally vvhether the Opposites in the Churches government as the Anabaptists in the Sacraments vvould not make us aliens from the common vvealth of Israel that so there should not be one bodie of them and us one Lord over them and us one sayth of theirs and ours c as the Apostle hath taught us Ephes 2 12-22 and 3 6. and 4.4 c. VVhich how absurd and ungodly it vvere to hold vve vvish they may in time vvel consider with them selves afore moe errors and further evils grovve upon them then yet are Furthermore let me also aske vvhy they doe not here speak of themselves asvvell as of us vvhat they pleaded to be the Church spoken of Mat. 18.17 as namely hovv some of thē taught publikly that it is the whole Church Congregation alledging to that end Num. 15.33 27.2 and 35.12 as also that Christ in this place speaketh of the kingdome of heaven Mat. 18.1 c. and that therfore we are to understand it of the whole Church How some also pleaded that it must be understood of men women children that can sorrovve rejoyce vvith others pressing to this purpose that vvhich Paul speaks of the bodie and parts thereof sorrovving and
functions given by the Lord in and to his church for the help and service of all to the building up of the mysticall bodie of Christ VVhereupon the Apostle shevveth it also by the similitude proportion of the members of the naturall bodie and of the severall faculties thereof vvhich he applyeth and extendeth even to the feeblest members and to the least and youngest children of the Church that are but newly baptised 1 Cor. 12 13-22 c. to vvhom yet he appointeth not the cases of sinne and pleas of the other members of the church to be brought for judgement censure as these men hereupon vvould inferre and as the matter in question is about Mat. 18 17. Moreover the things there spoken of the bodie and of the parts thereof might likevvise of old be applyed to Israel according to their estate and they vvere then bound accordingly to vvalke as members of one and the same bodie affording all help service and comfort they could one unto another Yet this might not then nor may not now hinder nor pervert the ordinance of God about the Elders hearing and judging the causes of their brethren censuring them according to their demerit but in deede it doth much more strongly establish it inasmuch as the Governours are by the Lord set in the Church for that use and so for the benefit of the whole as also that all the members have not gifts fit for examining of persons and deciding of cases and questions that doe fall out and yet notvvithstanding are members in the bodie and have othervvise their good use being fitly imployed and must be holpen of the rest as their need is and be partakers of the gifts bestovved upon others for their good and comfort And yet further this Scripture is more direct against thē in that it sheweth how in the Church some have a more chief place then others as the head eyes hands in the bodie are therefore to be respected imployed according to their gifts and place vvherein God hath set them 1 Cor. 12.14 28. VVhich is litle regarded of them vvho in cases of question and controversie vvhere there is greatest need of most knovvledge and vvisedome vvill then look vvhere the greatest number of the people is though they may be of the most simple and vvill have them to be the Church and to haue the Churches povver and authoritie to give the sentence yea albeit that all the Elders other brethren of better judgment but fevver in number be against them as if the multitude should still be follovved that there vvere no difference or inequalitie of gifts of Office or other respect at all to be had VVhich how far it is from the intendement of this Scripture alledged by themselues let all that understand according to sobrietie judge And let these men if they vvill not be taught otherwise 1 Cor. 12. cōpare vvith it rom 12. 3-8 yet learne of their ovvne bodies from vvhich the Apostle borrovveth his similitude here and there they shall see that all the members of the bodie are not given or used for counsel and determination in the things that concerne it though yet they have their other profitable use whereupon it is that vvhen some part of the bodie is hurt the hand is not used or sought unto to see withall nor the foot to heare neyther doth the head take them to consult and determine vvhat to doe there about but vvhen the head it self hath considered determined according to the gift dutie thereof then it useth the help of the hand or foot or any or all the members according as there is need and occasion And thus have all the members their good use service in the bodie being rightly used applyed thereunto But should novv hereupon the hands or feet say because they are not sought unto and employed to see hear determine as the eye eare and head are that therefore they loose their right and are not used or regarded as the mēbers of the bodie should Yet after such a maner plead the people aforesaid that they are vvronged loose their right and libertie if vvhen matters of sinne and question arise between brethren of the church they be not sought unto and bound to come together to hear and determine the cases to examine and censure the persons so dealt vvithall Nay though the Elders sitte publickly to hear and judge such causes and that it be left free for any of the people to come that vvil yet they thinke they have injurie unles that they be called upon and bound to come together and that they also make inquisition and censure the causes and persons dealt vvithall that the greater number of their voyces though vvithout and against all the Elders be taken for the Churches sentence c. VVhich in deed what is it els but as if eyther the whole bodie should become one member an eye an eare an head or the like or as if the foot should say Because I am not the hand I am not of the bodie or as if the hand should say Because I am not employed as the eye eare or head therefore I lose my right and am not used or esteemed in the bodie as I ought to be Yea vvhat is it els but to bring them selves into bondage and in deed to bring an Antichristian servitude on the people in the Church vvhen it being left free unto them to come or not to come yet that shall not suffice unles they be bound thereunto as is aforesaid And so it shall not be ynough that the Elders by their Office are bound unto it Rom. 12 7 8. 1 Thes 5.12.13 1 Tim. 5.17.18 and ought to have mayntenance for the doing of it and of the other duties of their Office but the men must vvithout any allowance for it leave their trades and callings the vvomen their houses and samilies the children their schooling and employment the servants their vvork and labour As may come to passe in great cōgregatiōs when many cases are to be heard c. and must come together though it should be day after day to heare and judge the cases that fall out betvveen brother and brother according to Mat. 18.17 For by this Scripture in 1 Cor. 12. chap. they vvill have it understood of men vvomen and children that can sorrovv and rejoyce vvith others as before vvas shewed And many moe things might be noted about this and the other Scriptures spoken of but these few observations may suffice Yet afore I proceed let me by this occasion note tvvo things more hereabout in generall The one that as it often cometh to passe vvith heretiks schismatiks Antichristians that the verie Scriptures alledged by themselves being searched and duly vveighed they are fit forceable against themselues so it is fallen out vvith these men in this case as may appeare by that vvhich hath ben sayd touching the
repentance follovves them sometymes with judgment sometymes vvith mereie and compassion c. Levit. 26 15-45 Ezech. 16 59-62 Iudg. 2 1-20 c. Thus in Israel vvho vvere the Lords people it may be noted how they goe a whoring after their ovvne inventions fall into idolatrie and false vvorship runne into sinne after sinne and become an harlot transgressing the covenant on their part Exod. 32. Iudg. 2. and 3. with Psa 78 56-58 1 Sam. 7 3 4. 1 King 12 28-33 and 14.22.23.24 with 2 Chron. 12. and 13. and 1 King 19.10 Hos 6.7 and 8.1 Yet the Lord breaks it not on his part but sometymes of himself sometymes at the intreatie of his prophets servants he spareth them and doth not destroy them or presently give them a bill of divorce according to their demerit but in his mercie as a loving husband he cals them to repentance and to that end he sends unto them Prophets after Prophets a long tyme to dravve thē to amendement and cals them still his people and helps them and casts thē not of Yet so as besides his vvord sent unto them he also adjoyneth corrections punishmments both for avenging the quarrel of his covenant upon them and for procuring their conversion by all maner meanes vvhat may be As in the books of Moses and historie of the Iudges Samuel Kings and Chronicles compared vvith the Prophets may be seen And particularly in the Scriptures here noted before and the like as Exod. 33. and 34. c. Levit. 26 14.15-25-42-44.45 Iudg. 2.1 c. Psal 78. 1 King 13. and 16. and 18. 2 King 5.8.15.17 with Ier. 51.5 and Ezech 16.59.60 c. Hoseas and Amos their Prophecies c. And in these tvvo divers respects sometymes having reference to God sometymes to Israel may there many things in the Scriptures be observed to be spoken diversly For example Israel considered in themselues and their idolatrous estate are sayd to be vvithout God vvithout Priest to teach and vvithout lavv to forsake and break the covenant of the Lord to provoke the Lord to anger by their vanities not to be the Lords vvife but an harlot going a vvhoring after their ovvne inventions and having childrē of vvhooredomes yea and that the Lord is not with Israel or vvith any of Ephraim 2 Chron. 15.3 1. King 12.28.33 and 15.34 and 16 13.26.31-33 and 19.14 Hose 2 1-5 and 5.3.4 and 8.1 and 9.1 with Psalm 106.29.39 Ezech. 16. and 23. chap. 2 Chron. 25.7 But agayne being considered in respect of the Lord and his covenant into vvhich they vvere received and vvhich he breakes not on his part but calls them to repentance c. the Lord is called their God and they are called the people of the Lord and their children borne to the Lord and Israel not to have ben a vvidovve forsaken of God but that the Lord had mercie on them and pitied them and respected them because of his covenant vvith Abraham Isaac and Iacob and that he vvould not destroy them nor cast them off from him as yet c. And thus continued Israel a long tyme respected of the Lord notvvithstanding her apostasic c. Iudg. 2 1. c. 1 King 18 36. 2 King 9 6 Hos 4.6 12. and 5 4. and 7 10. and 8 2. 9 1. 14.1 2. Amos 7 15. with Psal 89 30-34 and Ezech. 16 20 60. and Ier. 51.5 and 2 King 13 23. Yet notvvithstanding in these tymes the Prophets taught the people to plead vvith their mother about her adulteries to separate themselves and not to come at the places of their vvorship nor to communicate vvith them and bring their sacrifices thither because in so doing they should multiply their transgressions c. Hos 2 1-5 and 4 12.14.15 Amos 4 4 5. and 5 4 5. And all these things are vvritten for our learning are to be applyed to the estate of the Churches in apostasie under the Gospel since Christ Rom. 15 4. with 1 Cor. 10.11 Moreover besides that the vvord Church is taken sometymes more largely sometymes more strictly vvhich about this question likevvise may be observed there is yet further also a double regarde that may be had of apostate Churches in all ages according as they are considered and spoken of in comparison with other people of divers sorts As namely Israel in apostasie being compared vvith the Syrians Philistims Moabites and other nations are called and ought to be accounted the people of God vvho have the onely true God for their God c. 2 King 3.8 15.17 and 9 6. c. But being compared vvith Iudah vvhich ruled vvith God and vvas faythfull vvith the Saincts she is called an harlot not the vvife of God but a vvhoore committing adulterie and compassing God about vvith lyes and deceit c. Hos 2.2.5 4 15. 5.3 4. and 9 1. and 11.12 c. In like maner the Church of Rome in apostasie being compared vvith the Ievves Turkes and Pagans they are and ought to be accounted Christians and the Temple of God VVhere also is verified that which the Apostle spake of Antichrists sitting in the Temple of God 2 Thes 2.4 not the Temple of Ierusalem as some to turne away the truth have imagined but the Temple of Christians the Church of God brought to the sayth of Christ and professing to be Christians as may appeare by these scriptures and the like compared together 2 Thes 2.4 with Ezech. 43.7.8 Zath 6.12.13 Ephes 2 11-13.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 Rev. 11.19 and as it is also under stood by all sound writers both old and new But agayne being compared vvith the auncient Church of Rome and other primitive Churches in the Apostles tymes and such as novv vvalke in their steps and in the good and old vvay ruling vvith God and abyding faythfull vvith his saincts she is called and is to be esteemed an harlot the great vvhoore the mother of the whooredomes and abhominations of the earth beleeving speaking lyes in hypocrisie giving heed to seducing spirits and having pleasure in unrighteousnes c. Revel 17.1.5 1 Tim. 4.1.2.3 2 Thes 2 3-10 11.12 And thus there being in divers respects a double consideration had of the Church of Rome novv as of Israel heretofore it vvill appeare hovv in one respect it may be sayd there is the Church of God or a true Church there in another respect there is an apostate or a false Church there as it is sayd by the Apostle of one and the same woman that she is dead and alive in divers respects 1 Tim. 5.6 And of the Iewes that they are enimies in one respect and yet beloved in another Rom. 11 28. So Iohn Baptist is Elias and is not Elias in divers respects Iohn 1 21. with Mat. 11 7-14 and 17 10-13 Iudas is an Apostle and yet a divel Mat. 10.2 4. Ioh. 6.70 The Ievves are the children of Abraham and yet the children of the divel Ioh. 8.33.34 As the Prophets also
called the Ievves the seed of the vvicked the seed of the adulterer and a false seede in one respect vvhen in other respects they acknovvledge them to be the seed of Abraham Iacob and Israel and so a true seed and people of the Lord. Esa 1 4. and 57 3 4. with 41 8. and 45 19. and 58 1. Hos 2 1 2. and 4 13. Esa 63 16 17. and 64 9. Ier. 31 36 37. Hof 4 6 12. and 3 4. and 14 2 3 4. And endles it vvere to recount the many speaches and severall considerations of things thus spoken of in the Scriptures Christ is vvithout Father and vvithout mother Heb. 7 3. and yet he hath Father and mother Luke 2 48 49. Ioh. 1 18. and 2 3. Christ vvas put to death in the flesh but quickned in the spirit 1 Pet. 3 11. Abraham is unrighteous in himself but righteous by fayth Rom. 4 3 5. The apostle Paul and all the regenerate serve the lavv of God and the lavv of sinne the one vvith the minde the other vvith the flesh Rom. 7 25. Peter is a disciple an Apostle and yet in other respect is by Christ called Sathan Mat. 10 2 and 16 23. A leprous Ievv is a true man and an Israelite but a corrupt diseased man to be put and kept out of the host of Israel till he be cleane Lev. 13 and 14 with 2 Chron. 26 20 21. Num. 12 10-15 The Temple is the house of God yet is made a denne of theeves Mat. 21 13. The Emperours of Rome Babylon and the other nations are Kings and higher povvers ordeyned of God Rom. 13 1. with Rev. 17.10 and Dan. 7 17. yet are they also in other respect Beasts Lyons Beares Leopards c. Rev. 12.3 13 1 2 with Dan. 7 3-6 So likewise the beast vvas and is not yet is Rev. 17 8. And a number the like may be observed in other places of the Scriptures compared together Novv to conclude this poynt if these things the like about apostate Churches and the mixture of mans inventions vvith Gods ordinances in apostasie be distinctly and carefully regarded they may be through the mercie of God some good meanes to stay people from Anabaptistrie other ill courses by the consideration of the things that are to be observed on the one hand and to bring men more soundly to separation from the apostasie of Antichrist by the consideratiō of the things to be observed on the other hand Somevvhat as it pleased God to give me to discerne I observed vvrote tending this vvay long since as may be seene in the Ansvver to Mr. Iacob Where also I noted my wonted using of this caution thereabout in respect of this or that estate as also may be seen in the Apologie where I spake with the same cautiō p. 109. lin 31.32 pag. 7. vvhere I spake of a double consideration of Christians in one respect true and in an other false as also of salvation now had in the Church of Rome pag. 13 and 47. vvhich necessarily implyeth the people of God and his covenant to be there For vvhosoever are saved they are the people of God and under his covenant in Christ But so much and so particularly I observed not then as since it hath pleased God to manifest thereabout God openeth his vvil the mysteries of his vvord vvhen and as he pleaseth that vve may still perceive and acknovvledge vve knovve but in part and that we may be earnest in prayer by all meanes indevour to grovv in grace and in the knovvledge of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ And thus much I thought at this tyme by this occasion to write unto you hereabout By which you may perceive hovv they vvhich for these things speak of us as if we were going back to England might by this colour also say vve are going back to Rome And you may consider vvith your self vvhether the people that lived in the Prophets tymes and were set against them in those dayes might not vvith such pretences and collections have sayd that the Prophets had ben declining to the apostate Israelites when they called and esteemed them to be the people of God acknovvledged the circumcision had in the apostasie to be true circumcision c. But novv I vvill proceed to their next objection For the sixt and last exception of theirs vvhich is about having the counsel help of the English Church at Leyden to vvhich therefore may be referred the ninth and the other three particulars annexed unto it in the printed copie note here as in the other before that they mentiō not the ansvvers that vvere then given hereabout As namely that vve vvould permit it though for some reasons vve absteyned from desiring it and sending for them about the matters in hand or giving our cōsent so to doe Of which poynt I shall vvrite more hereafter But first I would here knovv why they never speak of this that vve were constent to permit it Or vvas our permission of it a denying of the practise of it as novv they object in the printed copie Did Paul deny that vvhich he spake by permission though for some cause he did it not of commandement 1 Cor. 7 6. Or did Moses deny the practise of that vvhich he permitted though for good cause he vvould not enjoyne it Deut. 24 1. This thing then might have ben better observed and regarded of them then it hath ben specially seeing they knovve vve made question of the lavvfulnes of doing any more in this case then onely to permit it and shevved also then divers reasons thereabout some vvhereof I vvill novv mention As 1. that now the other Church and we were in peace together and if by this occasion the peace betvveene us should be broken they should not say of us that vve sent for them our care being vvhat in us layd to nourish peace betvveen us and to prevent cut off all occasions of division c. 2. That the Church of Leyden was in the same errour with those of our people who desired their help VVhereupon vve vvished it should be considered vvhether vve might approve of any to come in such case but such as vve knevv to hold and maynteyne the truth according to the vvord of God 3. That former experience vvith others might also justly cause us to be vvell advised and circumspect vvhat to doe in this behalf VVhich vvhen vve vvrote of to Leyden them selues acknovvledged that it vvas such as might justly make us cautelous but vvithall they vvrote hovv vve might esteeme better of them then of the other in divers respects as being more studious of our peace and more carefull of the cause of Christ and that whereas the other would have brought in new doctrines and fayths amongst us they if in any thing they opposed any of us Note here the terme of opposition thus used should doe it in defence of the common and
auncient fayth both ours and theirs 4. That vvhen vve vvrote to them agayne hereabout vve acknovvledged great differences to be betvveene them and the other but touching the doctrines and questions controverted vve prayed them to consider that the fayth of this Church was that onely which is grounded upon the vvord of God in the vvritings of the Prophets and Apostles and that so our fayth is the common and auncient fayth which was held by the Church of Israel of old by the Primitive churches of the Ievves and Gentiles since the comming of Christ From which vvherein soever we had swarved in fayth or practise it had ben our aberration and not our fayth indeed Against which also whatsoever should be brought in reteyned or defended it was against our common and auncient fayth both theirs ours And vvhether therefore it vvere about the Word Sacraments or Government of the Church as about all these wee had found opposition it came to a like end Also that in all the three vve had resisted the persons spoken of being such as would have brought in among us new doctrines fayths in them all though in the last vve had done it least of all and that novv still we purposed by the grace of God to stand against all that eyther in all or any of them should oppose against the truth And here by this occasion we intreated to knovv of them whether they also were not like mynded with the other men aforesayd agreeing with them in the points of the church Officers and Governement as they held and vvrote thereof before they fell to their errours of Anabaptisme c. VVhereunto vve had no answer at all from them VVhich is a thing also to be observed 5. That in this tyme in the same letters we wrote to them about a letter sent unto them by many of our people concerning these matters as themselues had certified us desiring to haue a copie of it together with the names that vvere subscribed thereunto and the things delivered by word of mouth as was told us that we might the better consider of these things of our peoples dealing thereabout And vvhen thus vve could not obteyne it of them vve alledged divers reasons to perswade them to send it unto us viz that the matters written of vvere touching our publick affayres estate whatsoever might concerne any of us more particularly besides that the persons vvhich sent it were mēbers of our Church that if the thing done vvere good it vvould abide the light and they should doe vvell to follovv the Apostles example vvho shevved the Church of Corinth both the parties and the particulars signified unto him by them 1 Cor. 1 11. but if it were evill then it behoved them so much the more to give Gen. 37.2 Exod. 20.12 16. Iob 29.16 Prov. 18.17 Act. 20.28 c. and us to have from them the full knovvledge of the things aforesayd that it might be seen they did not partake with them in their evill and that vve might doe our dutie according to that which layd upon us in this behalf c. that vvhereas they vvrote their purpose was to come unto us according to the request of the brethren vvhich had moved thē c. they gave us occasion to signifie unto them that till vve knew who those brethren vvere and what had passed between them we could not so well admit thereof for the reasons before rendred unto them that we were constreyned the more to defier them to send it us because vvhen the Elders here asked some for it vvhom they understood to be of those parties they answered that here they had not eyther the Originall perfit or a perfit copie neyther any note of the names subscribed finally that if they would not send it but still keep it from us then they and the parties here gave us cause to refuse to haue dealing vvith them about the things spokē of that so the hinderance should be in themselves therefore if they would there should be no such hinderance but that vve should afterward haue reasoning with them about the matters aforesaid and did in deed seeke the peace good of this Church they should shevv it forth by sending unto us a copie of those things whereabout vve had vvritten unto them three tymes c. But yet notvvithstanding any intreatie or reasons alledged about it we could not by any meanes get a copie thereof eyther there or here VVhat vve heard was in it other circumstances dealing about it I doe omit now to speak of and vvill proceede to other things about the matter in hand And next of all it is to be observed that to all the letters and matters aforesayd written by us to Leyden hereabout M. A. himself subscribed as vvell as vve So that if it were evill in us it vvas also evill in himself VVhich let him acknovvledge knovvledge taking avvay the former reasons and shewing it by the vvord of God that vve may doe likevvise Or if he can vvarrant his ovvne doing therein vvhy doth he thus object against us that very thing vvherein himself joyned and subscribed vvith us at that tyme Let him also tell us vvhether therein he denyed the practise of that article in the Cōfession about having the counsel and help of that Church or vvhether he yeelded unto it by permission but absteyned from sending for them or giving approbation to their coming for the reasons aforesayd Let him also call to minde vvhether himself as I remember did not say or at least heard some of us say upon former experience had vvith others that whiles we lived vve would take heed how we consented to any other in like sort to come publikly into the Church vvhom we knewe aforehand to be in errour and so purposed to mainteyne the same But be it that we should haue desired this or at least consented to haue it desired as is implyed here yet though vve did it not the help of that Church was procured and obteyned as is sayd here and in the printed copie So then the thing it self vvas had by their ovvne saying how ever there wanted our desire of it or consenting thereunto Though yet they should not forget that vve consented to the permission of it and shevved reasons of our resrayning from doing more in this case as is aforesayd Now therefore when their help was procured and that they were come how vvere the things then caryed VVhere omitting to speak of that vvhich passed from them to keep to those that concerne our selues they all knowe that we reasoned vvith them publikly about the matter in question And that vve consulted advised vvith them about some course to be taken for procuring and keeping peace betvveen us And this not onely at that tyme but afterward also both by vvord and vvriting So then vve both reasoned vvith them about the poynts in difference we used their counsel and help
hovv to come to a good issue thereabout And thus themselues vvill not deny that the thing it self spoken of in the Confession vvas in this sort observed by us as is aforesayd But hovv did they observe it themselues vvhen they brake away and left us vvhiles vve vvere vvriting one to another the other Church and we concerning the matters propounded and fallen out betvveen us hereabout Of vvhich I shall haue occasion to speak more hereafter when first I haue noted a few things further about the former matter concerning our selues the Article spoken of For our selues besides the other things aforesayd vve signified also that vve vvould not refuse to conferre reason vvith the brethren of Leyden at any tyme about the matter in hand so as their comming vvere eyther of them selues or by the request of them here that desired it and vvithout our approbation for the reasons spoken of c. And accordingly vvhen they came hither Their Elders with consent of the rest vve performed it notwithstanding any thing that had passed before about these things For the Article it self obserue the clauses in it and the Scriptures cited for confirmation of it For the clauses in it note hovv it is sayd Conf. aâ—t 38. that every particular Congregation is as a compact and knitt citie in it self and therefore should use all good and lavvfull meanes that may further their compacting and knitting together in the truth and coÌ„mon fayth but not any such as may cause or at least colour the dividing of them asunder Also that the churches should all walk by one and the same rule and by all meanes convenient have the counsell and help one of another in all needfull affaires of the Church as members of the same bodie in the coÌ„mon fayth under Christ their onely head If this then be a rule for us it is so likevvise for all other Churches that vvhen there falleth out question about an errour among theÌ„ they should desire the counsel and help of such Churches thereabout as they knowe to be corrupted vvith the same errour and not purposed to leave it but to defend it supposing it to be the truth And vvhat conveniencie it vvere not to speak of the lavvfulnes of it or hovv needfull to call such as vve knovve to be in errour that so our people might eyther be the more corrupted or have the more colour for their errour evill dealing you may consider vvith your self Or if vve had sent for them or approved it might we not haue ben accessarie to the meanes by vvhich the truth might haue ben hindred and our people more confirmed in errour And vvhere then is the vvarrant for such vvalking For the Scriptures that are cited for confirmation of the Article aforesaid first observe about the point of difference betvveen us hovv the Scriptures of the old Testament are alledged asvvell as of the nevv and those also coÌ„cerning the estate of Israel applyed to our tymes and cases novv Secondly consider vvhether those Scriptures intend or vvill vvarrant a Church to send for such or to desire their counsel and help vvhom they knovv to be in errour about the poynts questioned and dealt in and by whoÌ„ the parties that trouble the church may be more strengthned in their errours and evils thereabout VVhich if they doe or if any other doe it that are not cited here then ought vve and all to yeeld thereunto Othervvise if the help and courses desired be not such as are approved in the vvord of God we might tempt God in atteÌ„pting of them and therefore must be carefull to follovv that onely which hath warrant from thence whereby the truth may be furthered the safetie and libertie of the Church preserved and occasion cut off from theÌ„ that desire occasion thereagainst And besides the things aforesaid vvhy did not themselues also desire to haue the counsel and help of the Dutch and French Churches that vvere here at hand round about us If they say because they thought they vvere in errour about the matter in question and so might haue hindred the truth and haue ben against them and for us then by it may be perceived vvhat their ovvne judgment is about this particular being simply considered in it self and in this behalf what the waight of this their exception is against us If they aunsvver any other thing it may accordingly be considered of as it shall be found to be And hitherto concerning the Article aforesaid and sundrie particulars that passed betvveen us by this occasion not spoken of by them Now touching the three particulars annexed to the ninth objection in the printed copie the first is that before their parting they offered that notwithstanding our differences of judgment they would continew together if our former practise might be reteyned VVhich is as if they should say they vvould haue continued vvith us if vve vvould haue continewed in errour and evil so found and acknovvledged by us suffring the ordinance of God touching the Eldership to be troden under foot the Elders to be despised abused by the people and the vvhole Church to be continually subject to contentions and scandals c. Besides vvhy doe they not also mention vvhat vve offered to theÌ„ vvhich seeing they speak not of vve will namely that before their parting vve offred to beare vvith them in their difference of judgment if they vvould be content to walke peaceably vvith the Church in that their difference but this vvas refused The next particular they speak of is that then they desired a peaceable parting to be two distinct Congregations each practising as they were perswaded yet nourishing love unitie A peaceable parting we graunt they desired in vvord but in deed stayed not vvith us but departed vvhiles vve vvere considering and advising vvhether it could lavvfully be effected or not And touching that particular of being two distinct Congregations of us in this citie c. we shewed them divers reasons vvhy vve could not in this case agree thereunto And of those reasons vve had speach vvith theÌ„ here and vvrote to the Church of Leyden signifying vvithall that if vve could otherwise better discerne vvhat vvere according to the vvill of God herein vve should God vvilling so receiue and vvalk VVhich letter vvith the reasons therein conteyned is hereafter noted dovvne Yet notvvithstanding they stayed not till we had an answer thereof from Leyden but soone after departed from us Besides that other meanes also vvas used by writing vvhich might at least haue perswaded them to stay and doe othervvise then they did Of vvhich I shall also speak more hereafter The third particular is about their procuring the help of the English Church at Leyden without our consent of vvhich I haue spoken here before about a waie of peace propounded by us agreed unto by the Church of Leyden our selues and yet afterward reversed by us c. Touching vvhich they doe here as before
sort and vvith what scandal the brethren aforesaid haue since divided themselues from us and that the reproch of it is spread farre and neare not onely by others but even by their ovvne letters and vvritings thereabout to the great dishonour of God and hindrance of the truth and that the knowledge of these things vvill be a good meanes for all both to settle their owne judgment better and to deale with them or others concerning these matters as there shal be occasion we have therefore thought it not amisse to note down here the cōtents of the letters aforesaid that passed betvveene us hereabout before the others departing from us VVhich we may also the better doe because they are but few and short First therefore when we had afterward had further speach among our selues as is aforesaid and had not yet heard frō the Church at Leyden agayne vvhat they thought of the matter and message aforesaid or vvhether they consented unto it or not we vvrote unto them as follovveth Beloved touching the things that haue now lately ben spoken off between the two Churches yours and ours about the dismission of such on cyther part as are not content with protestation peaceably to walk in their difference of judgment we have occasion to entreat the continuance of your consideration yet further thereabout 1. because your selves signified it came sodainly upon your Church and if eyther you or we mynded otherwise by the word of God we should after signify it Wherefore we expect to heare whether you continew like mynded as heretofore 2. because there is with us a new motion of our walking together thus by bearing one with another so as for peace to permit of a double practise among us that those that are mynded eyther way should keep a like course together as we would doe if we were asunder according as the persons shall be that haue the causes Which way if it may be found warrantable by the word of God and peaceable unto and among our selues we hope all that love peace in holynes will accord These things as we are to consider of so pray we you to doe the like with us and for us that we may doe that which is most to Gods glorie and our mutuall comfort Thus c. Amsterdam Novemb. 5. old style 1610. And note here how we both considered further of these things and still limited our consultation and purpose with this caution if the things propounded were found warrantable by the word of God VVhich is to be observed for the waight of it against these persons who haue taken such a course together vvith their opinions as can never be vvarranted by the vvord of God Next follovveth the letter and ansvver which then vve received from the Church of Leyden agayne vvhich vvas thus Touching the agreement Brethren between the Churches for our mutuall peace and the relief of the consciences of our brethren we did and doe repute the same as full and absolute on both sides except eyther some better course can be thought on or this manifested to be evill and that then it be reversed with the mutuall consent of both Churches And for this last motion about a double practise as we are glad of the great and godly desire to continew together in it manifested so doe we not see how it can stand eyther with our peace or it self but that it will not onely nourish but even necessarily beget endles contentions whē men diversly mynded shall have busines in the Church If therefore it would please the Lord so far to enlarge your hearts on both sides brethren as that this middle waie be held namely that the matter of offence might first be brought for order preparatation and prevention of unnecessarie trouble unto the Elders as the Church governours though it is like we for our parts shall not so practise in this particular and after if things be not there ended to the Church of Elders and brethren there to be judged on some ordinarte knowen day ordinarily the admonition being carryed according to the alteration practised and agreed upon by all parts till it shall please the God of wisdome and Father of lights by the further consideratiō discussing of things eyther in word or writing to manifest otherwise for our joynt accord it would surely make much to the glorie of God the stopping of their mouthes which are so wide opened upon us in respect of our dayly dissipations and should be to us matter of great rejoycing whose soules doe long after peace abhorre the contrarie and that thus walking in peace and holynes we might all beg at Gods hands the healing and pardon of all our infirmities so be readie to heale and forgive the infirmities one of another in love And with this prayer unto God for you and for our selues we resalute you in the Lord Iesus Leyden November 14. 1610. This vvas their letter VVherin obserue these things about the matters that passed betvveen us First that here is the ansvver vvhich they gaue us about the agreement and message aforesaid as also to the letters which aftervvard we sent unto them Secondly that touching the agreement they limit their consent unto it their account of it with a double exceptiō For though they say they repute the agreement to be full and absolute on both sides yet they speak it with limitation and exception as in deed vvas good and needfull to doe both in respect of the thing it self and seeing at the first propounding of the matter it was so mynded by them and us to be considered of with limitation of being found lawfull by the word of God Thirdly that the exceptions vvhich here they made vvere these except eyther some better course could be thought on or this manifested to be evill So then by this it is evident that if eyther a better course could be shevved or this manifested to be evill they did not yeeld or repute the agreement to be full and absolute Novv touching the shewing of a better course it appeareth by both of these letters theirs and ours that both of us vvere thinking of it therefore propounded other courses each to other to be considered To vvhich end may be observed here their propounding of another waie unto us for peace agreement vvith divers reasons to perswade thereunto VVhich had ben altogether in vayne for them to propound or us to think of if the other had ben absolute vvithout exception and irrevocable vvithout alteration though it vvere found never so evill or unlavvfull And for the manifesting of it to be evill the more vve thought of it the worse we found it to be and mynded divers reasons against it vvhich first vve signified here to the brethren themselues and had some reasoning vvith them thereof but could not agree thereabout and then we vvrote of them also to the Church at Leyden as by the next letter here follovving will appeare And we need not
doubt but if the thing which they purposed here had gone forvvard vvith our consent it would aftervvard haue ben much abused against us by others if not also by theÌ„selues specially as it appeared still more more to be in deed intended by them the thing being such as although it had never ben thought or spoken of among us yet it vvould in a matter of this waight haue ben found a great oversight But it being spoken of and manifested that they vvould but goe to the other Church to joyne unto them there then presently returne hither agayne to remayne and liue here in the same tovvne apart from us of vvhom they vvere vvhat vvould this haue proved in deed but scandal and collusion and haue ben turned upon us vvith the more reproch because vve consented unto it As for that other clause in their letter where they write that the agreement should be reversed with the mutuall consent of both Churches note that this vvas their propounding thereof unto us vvhich vve vvere to consider of vvhether vve vvould assent unto it or not And that in all such cases wherein it may fall out that eyther sinne may be coÌ„mitted or the truth hindred or the libertie of the Church impeached it behoveth all carefully to take heed vvhat they consent and yeeld unto yea that if any conditions or agreements are made vvhich can not vvithout sinne be performed it is better to breake then to keep them Lastly obserue here hovv the course about dealing in matters propounded in this letter and not yeelded unto by the others Exâ—ept some of them shevveth playne ynough hovv greatly these meÌ„ oppugned the ordinance of God touching the Elders hearing and judging of causes and persons and hovv highly they lift up the people therein specially vvhen the things noted before about this question are joyned and compared herevvith Novv it follovveth that vve set dovvne our next letter sent unto the other Church about the matter aforesaid vvhich also vvas the last that passed betvveen us afore the others parting from us And it vvas thus Your letter brethren we received and read publikly Corcerning which we haue occasion to signify some things unto you thereabout And first touching the agreement treated of between us that for such of us as will not come thither to remayne with you but purpose still to liue here in this citie apart from us albeit there be some that could be content notwithstanding so to dismisse them yet there are others of us that having more considered of it thinke it not lawfull to haue any hand in consenting thereunto and meane therefore to reverse our former agreement unto it besides that divers of us say they never consented hereunto And further some of us also beginne to thinke that it will be found unlawfull to keep spirituall coÌ„munion with them in such estate how ever we may still reteyne with them civill societie The reasons mynded why not so to dismisse them nor to haue spirituall fellowship with theÌ„ in such estate walking are these 1. Because we can not finde warrant for it in the word of God 2. Because they refuse disobey and speak evill of the truth and waie of God 3. Because they refuse to continew and keep coÌ„munion with us though they may be suffered to walke with us in peace with protestation in their difference of judgment 4. Because some of them professe they will not deale in causes as may fall out between us by way of protestation neyther when they are with us nor when they are from us 5. Because they goe not froÌ„ one Church and Pastour to another so to live and remayne but purpose when they haue come joyned unto you then presently to returne to live here in this towne apart from us 6. Because by such walking of theirs great reproach will come upon us all with much dishonour to God and hinderance to the truth what in them lyeth 7. Lastly because we thinke there should alway be somewhat in such cases used as whereby the Lord may worke upon their consciences to consider their estate and to repent and yeeld to the truth and waie of God which they haue hitherto refused and oppugned c. Thus we thought to acquaint you with these things and the reasons thereabout Which yet are so mynded of us as if eyther among our selues or by others we shall hereafter better discerne what is according to the will of God herein we shall Godwilling be ready so to receiue and walke As touching the the double practise misliked by you although in deed it may seeme somewhat straunge and difficult yet for the present some of us could like better of it then of a parting but the brethren differing from us will not admit of it Neyther will they yeeld to that middle course propounded in your letter Yet haue we left it with the former things to their further consideration And how soever it pleaseth the Lord to dispose of us our trust is that he will worke all in the end to the furtherance of his truth and peace of his Church in Iesus Christ To whose gracious protection and guydance we commend you c. Amsterdam Novemb. 19.1610 This letter being here publikly read vvas then sent to the Church at Leyden VVhereabout let these things also be observed here First that vve reversed not our agreement concerning such as vvould goe and liue vvith the Church at Leyden but onely about such as vvould not remayne and liue there but purposed to returne liue here apart from us in this citie Secondly that for this also we shewed divers reasons moving us so to doe and that both here by vvord of mouth and by vvriting to Leyden afore they vvent avvay from us Thirdly that vvhereas tvvo courses vvere propounded for the keeping of us together the one by us here the other by the Church at Leyden they vvould not admit of eyther of them neyther remayned vvith us till vve had from Leyden an ansvver of this letter and of the reasons conteyned therein but vvere so set upon parting from us as before vve heard from them they divided them selues from us and so haue continued to this day Yea notvvithstanding that before this their parting and besides all the other meanes formerly used vve offred also to try out in vvriting the matter betvveen us touching our difference about the Churches government and understanding of Mat. 18.17 vvhich likevvise they refused VVhereof I shall speak more particularly hereafter Fourthly that vvhen they left us they vvent not to Leyden there to joyne them selues to that Church according to the agreement before spoken of but vvent apart from us here forsaking the fellovvship vvhich they had with us and met together in another place of this tovvne VVhich is much to be observed not onely for the thing it self but because that thus them selues in their going away followed not the agreement betvveene the other Church and us vvhereof
they speak And so that vvhich they did vvas both vvithout our agreement and the Churches of Leyden for ought vve knovve Neyther haue they here set dovvne the cause that moved them not to goe to Leyden first and joyne there according to the former agreement afore they had taken this course of meeting apart from us here If they vvould haue this taken for a declaration of that vvhich they intended indeed that if they had gone to Leyden and joyned there it should haue ben but for the satisfying of our mindes vvhom they savve to be troubled about the dismission of them and that in deed they meant not to liue and remayne with that Church and Pastor there but vvhen they had so done then to come liue apart from us as novv they doe vve and others may accordingly esteeme thereof and take it as a further confirmation of the reasons alledged for the reversing of our consent to the agreement aforesaid There is also a clause inserted by them in their third particular novv treated of vvhere they say that in the treatie of the Agreement it was testifyed by the Elders of the Church of Leyden that unlesse it were to the apparant undoing of thē of their families they should not be dismissed agayne to dwell here which whether it did any way moue them in this behalf to doe as they did themselues know best My self cannot say that it did But this is sure that some haue gone from this Church citie to liue in the other in respect of their outward estate and in hope of bettering of it though none of them did so upon the former agreement and in respect thereof that I can remember And to note it here by this occasion vvell may it be that this speach of the Elders of that Church vvas a meanes to persvvade us much to the agreement aforesaid and that vvhen it appeared hovv them selues vvere purposed not to liue vvith the other Church Pastor there but to returne and liue apart from us here that then vve did the more thinke of it vvhether it vvere lavvfull for us to consent thereunto and thereuppon shewed the reasons aforesayd for the reversing of our former agreement unto it VVhich reasons also together vvith their owne purpose of living here apart from us they should haue done vvell to haue spoken of in their vvriting and not to haue sayd onely that although in the treatie of the agreement it was testified by the Elders of that Church that unlesse it were to the apparant undoing of them and of their families they should not be dismissed agayne to dwell here yet because they would not absolutely promise to leaue this citie we would not stand to the agreement which our selues had made For they knovve both their owne purpose aforesaid and that vve shewed divers reasons vvhy vve thought it not lavvfull for us to continevv but to reverse our consent to the dismission of such as would not remayne vvith the other Church but purposed still to liue here in this citie apart from us And in deed in such cases if things should concerne our selues even vvith certaine losse and hurt to us and our families yet should vve not make our outvvard estate the ground or rule of our religion or religious actions but vve should alvvay first look and consider vvhat is lavvfull for us by the word of God to consent unto in others or to practise our selues and then in fayth to vvalk before the Lord being upright and committing our vvay unto him vvho vvill bring it to passe Psal 37.3 4 5. with Gen. 12.1 and 17.1 Note also here how in the two last particulars of the printed copie they haue this clause thrise that we would not agree to stand to the agreement unles they left this citie and haue not once any vvhere unlesse they went from one Church and Pastour to another the verie naming vvhereof is such as caryeth vvaight of reason vvith it against them and for us Moreover concerning the poynt and Article spoken of about having the counsel and help of other Churches note also that hovvever they speak much of it yet in deed they did not follow it them selues in that whiles the other Church and vve vvere treating vvriting about the matters aforesayd they stayed not till vve had done to see vvhat would be the end of our consultation as it should please the Lord to dispose but vvhen they knevve vve had vvritten unto Leyden and vvhereabout and that yet vve had received no ansvver from them agayne they brake away from us and tooke also another course then that which was agreed upō as is aforesaid And so themselues herein observed not that in deed which they speake in vvord about having the counsel help one of another in all needfull affaires of the Church c. And be it that eyther vve or the of Leyden from whō vve heard not in this tyme should be vvanting or fayling in any thing hereabout as vvho in such difficulties and troubles are not subject to be Yet what will they alledge for vvarrant of their separation from us vvhich they haue made Themselues knovve that everie vvant or fayling in Churches or actions vvill not beare out such divisions Good vvarrant it had need be that should uphold such disbounding and separating of themselues as they haue runne into If they alledge the matters that are mentioned in the foresayd letters vvhich they sent into England and in the other vvriting of theirs vvhich is printed for them you see the aunsvver novv given thereunto and let them remember also that hovvsoeuer they speake of other matters yet they made their division onely for the question about Government and the understanding of Mat. 18.17 vvhereabout we differed and could not agree And if then in the matter it self for vvhich they left communion with us they be found thēselues to be in notable errour what vvarrant may it be that they can alledge herein which will not returne upon their owne heads in the end as that Scripture doth vvhich they alledge for and at their dividing of themselues from us Rom. 16 17. As for the long disputing of these matters vvhereof they speak that also maketh the more against them because that although such care and continuall paynes vvas taken for them and vvith them yet it prevayled nothing at all with them neyther And vvhere they say no waie of peace could by us be found to continew together in the truth holynes they should turne their eyes upon themselues upon their errours and upon their stubberne contentious and unruly vvalking besides that they stayed not to see vvhat issue it vvould please God to bring of the matters in hand betvveē the other Church and us and refused also to trie if by writing among our selues vve could haue come to better accord in our differences then vve could by speach and word of mouth VVhich although it be a meanes seldome used vvhen parties are
present together and carefully to be regarded vvhen and hovv it is so used yet I suppose novv that they haue better bethought themselues they vvill acknovvledge it had ben better to haue admitted of any lavvfull meanes they could rather then to haue divided themselues as they did and to haue brought so great reproach many evils upon themselues and others as they haue done Or if they vvill not so acknovvledge theÌ„selues yet I doubt not but others vvill for them For that vvhich they speak of the lamentable dissipation of the Church and members beginning to growe if they had named any particulars thereabout they might accordingly haue ben spoken of VVhich seeing they haue not done I vvill leaue to the consideration of themselues others whether their dealing departing froÌ„ us might not onely haue begunne but even haue caused to growe and goe forward a most lamentable dissipation of this Church the members thereof had not God disappointed them and in mercie susteyned and kept us together vvhen they made their division coÌ„mitted so great offence in this Church Rom. 16.17 contrarie to the doctrine vvhich vve haue learned of the Prophets and Apostles vvhich vve also shevved unto theÌ„ many times afore they parted from us and vvhich novv that they haue left us must ende all the question and controversie that is betvveen us And here it is to be remembred that alvvayes and in all our vvritings and occasions vve still professe to haue the vvord of God alone for the light of our feet and direction of our vvayes in all things VVhich vve should therefore be the more carefull to follovv as it pleaseth God of his goodnes to manifest his vvill unto us more more And likevvise about these matters and in the last letter aforesayd vve limited our dealing and the reasons alledged with the same caution still of follovving that which we should among our selues or by others best discerne to be according to the wil of God therein VVhich though it had not ben expressed should alvvay be understood But being purposely and so often mentioned from time to time about these things it should the more be remembred regarded of us all that by it vve may examine determine all the matters betweeÌ„ us For neyther may vve reteyne any thing in the Church nor yeeld to any agreement vvith others that is not warrantable by the vvord of God neyther should they urge the continuance of any thing among us nor follow themselues any course in their practise that cannot by it be approved but vve should still grovve in knovvledge obedience of the vvill of God leaving that vvhich is evill and following that vvhich is good in all things Moses when he was informed by Iethro that the course of government vvhich he took in judging the people and hearing their causes so as he did vvas not good but vvearysome both to him and the people and had another vvay shewed unto him to be received vvith the approbation of God he vvillingly hearkened unto it and chaunged his former course the Lord also approving the same Exod. 18 13-26 VVhen David in a godly desire vvas carefull to bring the Arke of God from Kirjaâ—h-jearim to Ierusalem he put it in a nevve cart and beganne to carry it vvith singing and playing on instruments and great solemnity thinking that he had done vvell and right therein but the Lord made a breach upon them by the death of Vzza VVhereupon David stayed the further removing of it a vvhile and perceiving that it was because they did it not in the due order thereof he then aftervvard took another course appoynting the Levites to beare it whom the Lord had chosen to cary the Arke of the Lord and minister unto him 1 Chron. 13. and 15 2-13 c. Novv vvhat breaches contentions and continuall troubles had ben at that time in this Church among us they are not ignorant of besides the exceeding great and heavie one which about the same time befell that other Congregation of our countrymen here who about the questioÌ„ of the Churches government pleaded also against the Eldership for their popular course vvith some of the verie same arguments and other like as these haue done and runne into sundrie Anabaptisticall opinions and courses not unknovven unto them And the brethren of Leyden in their letter here before make mention of our dayly dissipations vvhich then vve had VVhich things I note here by this occasion that it may the better appeare both what great cause vve had novv to look hereunto and that these things also befell us vvhiles vve held that course of governement pleaded for by these men and afore they made this schismaticall departing from us as novv they did because vve vvould not still continue and hold on the same course as before Besides these examples of Moses and David I could also alledge the Apostles vvho upon experience of evils that came by having younger vvidovves in the service of the Church took aftervvard another course and appoynted that none should be taken into that number under threescore yeere old c. 1 Tim. 5 9-15 And for chaunging of things purposed and determined vvhen there is just cause vve haue likevvise the example of David agayne vvho vvhen he had purposed and solemnely vovved the death of Nabal and all his familie yet afterward upon the persvvasion and reasons used by Abigail changed his purpose and blessed her and the Lord for her counsel persvvasion given unto him 1 Sam. 25 21-35 And of the Prophet Nathan vvho having both consented to Davids purpose of buylding an house to the Lord and encouraged him thereunto yet vvhen as the same night the Lord shewed him that he did not require it of David neyther vvould haue him to doe it he thereupon vvent and shevved it to David vvho also rested therein with praise and thanks unto God 1 Chron. 17. chap. And these things are vvritten for our learning vvhich I doe the rather note here considering the persons matters spoken of The persons being Moses David Nathan Paul some Prophets some Apostles The matters being touching the government of the people the vvorship of God the service of the Church and helping one of another c. Yet such persons in such matters altered their courses and purposes and vvere readie and vvilling so to doe when eyther by the counsel of others or by their own experience or by the vvord or work of God they perceived any errour to be committed or some other evil to ensue in the courses taken or purposes intended by them They knevve and vvere carefull as all should that in all things vvhether concerning the vvorship of God or governement of the Church or other duties and actions that onely should be received and reteyned vvhich is approved of God and whatsoever is evill or unvvarrantable by his vvord though formerly had and observed that it should be corrected and amended According to vvhich rule
bodie is compounded of them both There is both the bodie and putrefaction in the putrified bodie So is a bodie that is svvolne vvith the vvater causing the dropsie Both are together and yet so together as eyther one of the two or both together must needs perish If the nature of the bodie be stronger the corruption and dropsie vvater decayeth but if the corruption or dropsie prevayle there is most certaine destruction of thē both So is the church of God for in it self it is the bodie of Iesus Christ If a deadly disease grovve upon it both are then together the bodie and the disease in the bodie If the purging medicine of the grace of God for nothing is here naturall be of the more efficacie the disease then is vanquished and decayeth but if the disease prevayle then both of them the bodie and the disease must needs come to an end For such is the condition of the disease it both feedeth it self on the dodie decaying and destroyeth it self together vvith the bodie After this maner therfore doe we esteeme of the church of Rome vvhich they call the papall or popish Church There is the Church there is the papacie and there is the papall Church As there is the Church it is the subject of God as there is the papacie there is the disease of man as it is the papall church there is a fight betvveen the church and the papacie that will destroy eyther one of them apart or both together If God shall giue it the purging medicine of his grace by meanes vvhereof the papacie the accidentarie evill decaye and perish it is vvell but if the papacie that most faultie and corrupt order and deadly accident prevayle it vvill bring destruction to both of them both to the church and to it self by the judgment of God And this novv in the memorie of our fathers and our ovvne vve see to haue befallen many churches vvhich claue fast unto that Romane church For when it seemed good unto God more clearely to inkindle the torch of the gospel and to scatter the papall smokes by his spirit there remayned churches returning by his grace to a better constitution and stronger health that vvhich is of the pope departeth vanishing avvay through his ovvne corruption but when as God sent not that purging medicine of his divine grace into the bodie of any church then the popish corrupt blood got strength more and more which vvill be to that church deadly destruction unles God of his mercie provide a remedie In the remembrance and conscience of this benefit doe our churches fitly sing vvith the Prophet Blessed be the Lord which hath not giuen us for a praye unto their teeth Our soule is escaped even as a bird out of the snare of the foulers the snare is broken and we are delivered Our help is in the name of the Lord c. Psal 124. VVherefore in my judgment they speak preposterously vvho aske vvhether the church be in the papacie because on the contrarie it should be asked vvhether the papacie be in the church For the subject is not in the accident but the accident in the subject vvhose being is an in being or to be in a thing as men commonly speake And that the papacie is in the church as the order or estate of apostasie in the house and citie of God is as certaine as that of the Apostle is certaine 2 Thes 2. that the man of sinne the sonne of perdition sitteth in the temple of God vvith his vvhole order or ranke of apostates and not on the other side that the temple of God consisteth in that order and number of apostates vvhich is a thing most straunge furthest off But the terme of the papacie taken doubly and aequivocally deceiveth them in such fort as here before vve shevved concerning the Romane popish Church For under the name of the papacie vvhich is a foule corrupt order they comprehend the subject it self which is annoyed vvith that corruptiō not distinguishing aright between these things As therfore if any should deny that to be a bodie which lyeth in a deadly sort svvollen vvith the vvater of the dropsie or should affirme that vvater which choketh the bodie to be the bodie it self should in both these be deceived in his judgment so also are both deceived as vvell they vvhich deny it to be the church because the papacie is in it as they vvhich avouch the papacie to be the church it self vvhich we haue before disproved The papacie is a poyson in the church vvhich poyson must needs be vomited out if it vvill be preserved or els the church vvill be extinguished by it if it suffer that poyson to prevayle and possesse all the veynes of the bodie But how can she be the church will some say in which the papacie is To witte as there is the bodie in which a disease vvorketh But because the papacie is a deadly corruption the more that the papacie getteth strength the more the church is vveakned the increase of the one is the decrease of the other And hence it cōmeth to passe that in the churches vvhich are called popish some are more healthie some more unhealthie then others the more healthie are those which haue lesse of the papacie more of the church and those are the more unhealthie which haue more of the papacie lesse of the church and of this kinde I doubt not that church to be vvhich at this day is at Rome For it had long agoe giuen up the ghost if God by the imposition of his grace and long suffring had not nourished and kept it vvarme Notvvithstanding that vve may giue content unto their mindes vvhich doe not yet reach unto these things or thinke that they are more subtily then truly spoken of the church vvhich they call the papall or popish church let us ansvver this question in fevv vvords from the regard of all particular churches as they are among men or in consideration of things humane Everie church vvhich in deed is a Church is considered tvvo vvayes on Gods behalf as they speake and on our behalf On Gods behalf it is altogether a church vvheresoever there is found a companie called of God vvith his calling by the spirit and the holie Scripture and the ministerie of persons ordeyned for holie things and divine actions On our behalf there is no Church at all although it be so of God as vve haue sayd to vvhich there doth not cleaue corruption concerning the persons things actions and finally the vvhole ministerie of man ordeyned by God And that vvhich is on Gods part is not taken away by our default so long as it seemeth good unto the Lord to acknovvledge it for his Church call it with his calling by the spirit holie Scripture the ministerie For shall the unbelees of mē saith the Apostle Ro. 3.3 make the sayth of God without effect shal the vveaknes of mā make voyde