children such of them as are able to rejoyce and sorrovve with others And vve note this to be of telling men women and children in their ovvne persons because otherwise it is graunted that the Congregation is told according to order and rules of governement in the telling of the Elders And here it is to be remembred hovv it hath often ben signifyed that vvhether wee understand those words of telling the Church thus Tell the Congregation to weet according to the rules and order of governement appointed by God in his word Note here that the Elders sit in a publick place vvhere all that vvill may come and be present c. or thus Tell the Congregation of Elders not hindring or infringing any right or libertie of the brethren these come both to one end being rightly understood And about these things haue ben alledged these the like Scriptures Mat. 18 17. cōpared with Mat. 5 22. Deu. 21 18-20 Num. 35 12 24.25 with Deu. 19 11-18 Iosh 20 4-6 1 Sam. 2 25. Psal 82 1. Prov. 26 26. in the LXX compared with the Original Deut. 1 9-17 and 16 18. and 17 9-12 and 25 7 8 9 with Ruth 4 1-11 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Act. 6 11-13 and 20 17 18. Rom. 12 4-8 Luk. 12 42. 1 Cor. 4 1 2. and 5. chap. with Lev. 20 11. and Deut. 17 4-7 1 Cor. 6 1-5 12 28. 1 Thes 5 12-14 1 Tim. 3 5. and 5 17-21 Heb. 13 17. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Secondly vve haue erred in that we haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church if he heare not the Church c. that the partie offending should not vvithout taking consent of the people be admonished by the Elders wherupon to proceed against him And that the sinner vvas not to be excommunicated Viz. the admonition so giuen by the Elders as is afore sayd for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely Touching vvhich vve haue agreed heretofore that vve erred from these Scriptures 2 Chron. 19 8.9.10 and 1 Thes 5 12. compared with Deut. 17 8-12 c. And here agayne it is to be remembred hovv it hath ben shevved that the speaches of telling the Elders and of the casting out of persons for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely are to be understood in respect of ministration and governement committed unto them by Christ and the Church and not so to be taken as to exclude the Church or Christ the head for vvhom they doe administer but that vve should alvvay understand obserue these things according as in Israel in the due proportion and perpetuall equitie thereof and according to the Scriptures here alledged in this and the other particular aforesayd and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their assent or any right that doth apperteyne unto thē by the vvord of God but to doe all things according to the rules prescribed therein as before hath ben shevved To vvhich ende likevvise it is to be remembred how it hath ben often signified and declared that the povver of the holy things of God given to the Church is properly and primarily Christs secundarily and by communication the Churches instrumentally and ministerially the Officers vvho are the Ministers of Christ and the Church And that thus vve would still be understood As also that thus the admonition being given as is aforesayd may be sayd to be the admonition of Christ of the Church of the Elders in divers respects according as is sayd before Thirdly cōcerning that rule in general we have had this errour among us that it hath ben understood to be a newe rule for the time of the Gospel which Israel had not VVhereabout may be considered cōpared together these and the like Scriptures as followeth Mat. 18.15 with Lev. 19 17. Prov. 25.9.10 Also Mat. 18.16 with Deu. 19.15 and 17.6 Ioh. 8 17. 2 Cor. 13 1. And Mat. 18 17. with Mat. 5.22 Deut. 21.18 19 20. Numb 35 12-30 with Deut. 19 12-17 c. together with the other Scriptures mentioned here before in the other particulars as in them may be seen And for all these things if any can shew us better or othervvise by the vvord of God vve shall God willing be readie to yeeld unto it THus vvas the Churches agreement about these things VVhere note that the first of these about admonition by the Elders was sooner agreed upon there being but fevv in respect that excepted and stood against it vvhen some of the chief of them yeelded unto it The latter about our practise understanding of Mat. 18 17. was verie long debated among us and after much reasoning had thereabout vve vvere often and earnestly urged by the Opposites to giue sentence and come to an yssue about it So in the end vve agreed concerning it as here before is set dovvne VVhich vvhen vve had done they signifyed their dissent and that they could no longer vvalke vvith us practising accordingly And so aftervvard they vvent avvay and left us And this is the very cause of their departing from us vvhatsoever other thing be alledged by them or any other thereabout And this I intreat the Reader vvell to obserue because othervvise reading their foresayd differences and objections in the letter and printed copie vvhereabout they haue busied themselues so much he may take them for causes of their separation which in deed vvere not And whereas thus it pleaseth thē to trouble mens mindes with their positions and intend in the setting of thē dovvne to cause disgrace to this poor Church which they so unjustly haue left as if we had apostated and left the auncient sayth it shall be good for them to try and warrant those their positions and differences as also their separation from us by the touchstone of the vvord of God as now by the answer thereunto given they are occasioned to doe And vvithall let them shew out of the Scripture hovv it can be vvarranted that a minister vvho hath not himself received true baptisme may administer the Lords Supper or that a people not having true baptisme may receive the Lords supper as these haue done seeing themselues deny the baptisme of the Church of Rome By this opiniō the Martyrs of later yeeres had not true baptisme c. so consequently of other Churches in Apostasie to be true baptisme If the example of Christ be considered vvho first instituted and ministred the Lords supper himself he had received true baptisme before Mat. 3 16. with 26.26.27.28 The like may be observed about his Apostles namely about Paul vvho vvas first baptised afore he received or administred the Lords supper Act. 9.18 with 20.11 and so in others from time to time By vvhich themselues may perceiue vvhat a continuall profanation of Gods holy things is among them that so minister or receiue not having true baptisme and the Reader may discerne hovv needfull it had ben for them better to haue thought of their positions and objections
against us afore they had thus vvritten and given them forth And this I thought good here to mention together vvith that vvhich is before noted about it that both themselues and others may by this occasion duly consider of their estate and dealing Pa◠54 c. And here for this purpose also it vvill not be unfit in this place to annexe the judgment of Mr. Iunius concerning the Church of Rome as I sayd here before I vvould VVhich the Readers shall do vvell duly to consider both for their ovvne better information and for the better discerning and judging of the opinions and differences that are at this day-thereabout not onely among the Anabaptists and such as are affected Anabaptistically but even among Protestants also our selues and others differing in some things about this matter Thus therefore it is as followeth THE IVDGMENT OF M. FRANCIS IVNIVS concerning the Church of Rome Lib. singulari de Eccles contra Bellarminum cap. 17. And in his vvorks printed in fol. p. 1018.1019 c. Of the Church of Rome BEing to treat of the Church of Rome vve wil first unty the knot of the aequivocatiō of the word before we determine of the thing it self that all men may better perceiue what it is that is at this day called in question amongst us For very many are deceived vvith the homonymie or aequivocation of the verie word and unavvares insnare themselues and others by the ignorance of the deceitfulnes in the speach The church of Rome therefore is properly so called or abusiuely by the misterming or abusing of the name both as it is called a church as it is called the Romane church For as it is called the Romane church sometymes it properly signifyeth the companie vvhich is at Rome as Paul spake vvriting to the Romanes sometimes it signifieth abusiuely all the churches on the earth that cleaue to the Romane church according to the forme of doctrine and constitution thereof But vve vvill treat of the church as it is indeede the church of Rome and the things vvhich vve shall speak of this church the same may the godly reader by proportion understand of the church so called by abuse of speach Now as it is called a Church vvhich thing chiefly is in controversie it is so termed three maner of vvayes as a subject as an accident growing to the subject and as the subject together vvith that his accident As a subject it is the simple or single Church of Rome As an accident growing upon the subject is the papacie or the papall hierarchie vvhich they call ecclesiasticall As a subject compounded with his accident it is the church of Rome become papall or under the Pope that is to say corrupt as I may so speake by that lavvles or unnaturall shoot of the Pope springing out of the stock Novv of each of these vve vvill consider so briefly as may be one after another The Church of Rome when it is considered as a subject it hath tvvo parts the pastors and the flock of Christ for vvhich church the Apostle of old gaue thanks to God by Iesus Christ because her fayth vvas published throughout the vvhole vvorld Rom. 1 8. And for vvhich vve also dayly aske of God in our prayers that he vvould informe it to vvorship him by his spirit in the Gospel of his sonne to establish it in fayth Neyther doe vve deny this subject to be at Rome by the mercie of God even at this day because vve trust there is God calling persons called and the calling it self yet in her the meeting of vvhich things together in one giveth being to a church Chap. 8. c. as before vve shewed But touching the papacie or the papall hierarchie which they are vvoont to call ecclesiasticall vve doe not say that it is the church properly so called but an accident grovving unto the church and such as covertly vvorketh against the life and health of the Church That it is not the church properly is proved by the very definition of the papacie and of the Church of God For the papacie according to his generall is an order the church is a companie or an assemblie The papacie by his difference is an order positiue humane or from men and naught The church is an assemblie divine or from God by divine authoritie vvith reason united together Novv those things which differ both in their generall and in their essentiall difference and in their necessarie conditions or properties they cannot be one and the same thing And that the papacie is an accident grovving upon the Church experience it self speaketh For the subject is before his accident which is contigent and separable The church vvas many ages vvhen the papacie vvas not The papacie came to the church contingently beside the being of the Church and so may be separated from it as at this time also there are churches vvhere the papacie is not there vvill be churches still hereafter vvithout the papacie Therefore the papacie is not the church but it is an evill grovving up in the church a pestilence a dropsie the gangrene in the bodie deceiptfully working against the life and health of it and therefore most noysomely eating up the liuely and wholsome moysture of the church But of this vvhole matter vve haue spoken in the 3. Controversie in this fourth we are to speak of it hereafter Therefore concerning the other vvhich remayneth let us see whether the papall Romane church or that which is of the pope be the church The opinions vvhich are about this matter are divers The popish generation cry out vvith full mouth that it is absolutely the church Others not beholding a different regard of the papacie from that vvhich is the church deny it to be the church VVe relying both on the nature of the thing and on the authoritie of the Scripture doe put a difference The nature of the thing doth teach that the church is one thing and that the papacie is another as vve spake a litle before The authoritie of the Scripture teacheth the church but it teacheth not the papacie therefore they are divers things For they delude undoubtedly I say they delude vvhich require at our hands one definition of the subject of the accident as of one singular thing or obtrude it on us For thus must vve say The papall church as it hath that in it vvhich belongeth to the definition of a church it is a church but as it hath in it the evill grovven unto it which vve call the papacie in that respect it is not a church but a faultie defloured and a corrupt church and dravving on to destruction Let us make it playne by a similitude The bodie it self is one thing the corruption or putrefaction in the bodie another thing and the corrupted or puttrefied bodie another thing The bodie is the subject the corruption or putrefaction is the evill accident cleaving unto the subject the corrupted or putrifyed
povver right and libertie that the saincts and people out of Office have and should use in elections not onely at first when they have no Officers but alvvayes after in other elections also even vvhen they have Officers over them Lastly seeing our doctrine overthrovveth not the constitution of the church of Israel afore Christ nor of the primitive Churches after Christ it caÌ„ not therefore overthrovv the constitution of our Church or of any other that is accordingly built upon the foundation of the Apostles Prophets Iesus Christ himself being the head corner stone Ephess 2 19 20. By all vvhich you may see hovv vayne frivolous this their exception is To which may be referred the first sixt and seventh of the Objections in the printed copie And so touching them observe the things spoken of here and in the foresaid Treatise upon Mat. 18.17 For the third it being of much like nature vvith the second before the same ansvver that is there given may suffice for it Yet thus much I vvill acquaint you vvith further that the like thing being objected here against me and vvritten of unto us from the church at Leyden I gave this ansvver unto it viz that the Church may excommunicate any Officer deserving it as well as any other member Also that if all the Officers doe joyntly transgresse and so persist then the Church which did chuse them may also depose and refuse them for beeing their Officers any longer may separate themselues from them But that the people may excommunicate all their Officers or whole Eldership together I desired to see it shewed and warranted from the word of God This vvas then ansvvered sent froÌ„ hence in a generall letter to the church at Leyden as is knovven unto them and vvas by Mr. Ainsw himself also subscribed at that time for my ansvver hereunto hovvsoever novv they speake not of it So far as chusing reacheth which being not an action of government may be done by people out of office so far also may the refusing goe And vvhatsoever in extraordinarie cases is attempted further must be approved by the vvord of God that so it may be admitted And novv for the exception it self vvhich is here the third but in the printed copie is the first note these things moreover concerning it that the particulars of the 23 Article of our Confession here alledged being found true in the Churches of Israel before Christ and of the Gentiles since Christ the exception made hereabout can not be of vvaight against this or any other Church established according to the vvord of God as those vvere but must be also against those churches vvithall For which see consider the Scriptures alledged in the Confession for confirmation thereof And observe here also whether it can be shewed by those or any other Scriptures that any in Israel or in the primitive Churches did ordeyne Officers or depose or excomunicate eyther theÌ„ or any vvicked persons deserving it but such as vvere Governours and Officers among them Which scripture vve have indeed thus alledged heretofore If any insist upon Numb 8.9.10 which of all other places is the likest or onely like to be objected because there it is sayd the children of Israel shall put their hands upon the Levites then note also further that by this phrase of speach of the children of Israel and other such speaches of the men of Israel the tribes of Israel and the like in the Scriptures are the Elders of Israel often meant understood As for example in another the like case they vvhich are called the Elders of Israel Lev. 9.1 are in the same chapter called the children of Israel Lev. 9.3 where the Septuagint have in both places alike the Senate or Eldership of Israel As also Iosh 7.23 where the Hebrevv hath the children of Israel the Greek translation hath the Elders of Israel And verie reason it self teacheth so to understand it For othervvise hovv should so many hundred thousand of Israel as then vvere of the people eyther at once heare or doe the things there spoken of And if it be sayd some did it for the rest of Israel then I aske first vvho those some vvere but the Elders vvhom Israel novv had Exo. 3.16 and 4.29 Lev. 9.1 c. and secondly under vvhom they did it but under the Lord vvho set them over the people to minister governe in his stead Exod. 20 12. Num. 11 16-30 Deu. 1 9-18 and 16.18 and 17 12. and 19 12.17 c. So likevvise they vvhich are called the men of Israel Ios 9 6 7 14. are in the same chapter called the Princes of the Congregation Ios 9 15 18 19 21. And they vvhich are called the tribes of Israel 2 Sam. 7.7 are othervvhere called the Iudges of Israel 1 Chron. 17.6 In like maner that vvhich is sometimes said to be done by the people Exod. 20.18 19. 1 Sam. 8.7 10 19 21. is othervvhere said to be done by the Elders Deut. 5.23 1 Sam. 8 4. In vvhich places actions common reason also teacheth so to understand the speaches as vvas shevved before And in like sort may be observed hovv the vvord Church or Congregation is divers times used for the Assemblie or Congregation of Elders Num. 35 12 24 25 29. with Deut. 19 11.13.16.17 and 31.28.30 Iosh 20.4.5.6 Psal 82.1 1 Chron. 29.1.6 with 28.1 c. as is noted in the other Treatise on Mat. 18.17 And many such Synechdochicall speaches vvhere the name of the vvhole is given to a part may be observed in the Scriptures VVhich vvhiles men vvill needs understand according to the letter they grow into many errours some one vvaie some another as others also doe in other things mistaking figurative speaches as if they were spoken and should be understood literally And thus much I thought to vvrite further hereabout And this also that they should better observe the clauses particularly expressed in the article spoken of Conf. art 23. as namely that the electing and ordeyning of the Officers is to be according to the rules in Gods word prescribed that deposition likevvise is to be by due order and that the cutting off by excommunication must be done orderly VVhich clauses as they bynde us to shew by the Scriptures that the people not being in office may chuse their Officers as is proved both there and in the Apologie heere cited pag. 46.47 so doe they also binde these persons thus making exception to shevv out of the vvord of God like rules practise or vvarrant of ordination deposition and excommunicatioÌ„ ministred and performed by pâ—ople out of office VVhich till they doe vvhat vveight or use is there of their exceptions save that it turnes to be a meanes for the truth to be better found out and more cleared from tyme to tyme. For the fourth it is of like nature vvith the second and third herebefore vvhere therefore see the ansvvers And if they vvould here imply a
particular matter concerning one of our Ministers about imposition of hands that is a point also left to further consideratioÌ„ among us beside that it fell out since their departing from us and therefore perteynes not to the plea about their division vvhich vvas made before Yet notvvithstanding the ansvver vvhich follovves here to their fift and next exception will both give some light to the poynt it self and shew good reason of the needfull discussing thereof which you shall doe well therefore to consider of as follovveth But first by occasion of that which is printed I will here annexe a litle more For now they doe in particular expresse this matter concerning one that was minister in the Church of England and is since chosen Teacher of this Church and received among us vvithout any nevve imposition of hands So novv refer hither to this Objection the third and fift in the copie that is printed Touching which let me first signify that our testimonie against the Antichristian hierarchie of the man of sinne treated of in the Confession is not by us reversed or vveakned any way but novv is rather more sound and stronger also then it vvas hitherto inasmuch as it is more firmely grounded not onely against the apostasie of Antichrist but also against the errours confusion of the Anabaptists whereabout we have ben encumbred not a litle For the Anabaptists holding that Antichrist had utterly destroyed all Gods ordinances so that there vvas not so much as true Baptisme râ—â—eyned and had among them thereupon they began to baptise theÌ„ selves againe VVhose errours vvhiles vve confuted as by our books published thereabout may appeare and vvhiles some of them objected that vve should no more reteyne the Baptisme then the ministerie there received vve had thereuppon just occasion given us to consider thereof And so vveighing vvith our selves that one mayne and speciall reason against rebaptization is because Baptisme is an ordinance of God vvhich vvas had in the Church of Rome before she fell into apostasie and hath been there continewed ever since the Apostles tymes hovvever it be commingled among them vvith many corruptions inventions of their own vve began to consider vvhether the like might not be observed and sayd concerning Imposition of hands that it vvas had from the Apostles in the Church of Rome before her apostasie is there continued to this daye though mixed vvith many pollutions and devises of their ovvne And entring into consideration thereof vve observed these things among other about it 1. That Imposition of hands is of God and not an invention of man not a post or threshold first brought by Antichrist into the Temple of God but had therein afore Antichrist sate there 2. That baptisme and imposition of hands are joyned together among the principles of the foundation spokeÌ„ of Heb. 6 2. which vve thought therefore should in this behalf be vvell regarded 3. That imposition of hands is in the Church of Rome still given to the Office of ministerie in the name of the Lord as they doe also still administer baptisme 4. That vve found not eyther precept example or ground in the Scripture binding us to the repetition thereof 5. That the Priests Levites in Israel becoming uncleane vvhen aftervvard they vvere cleansed reteyned still their places of being Priests and Levites And that the children of the Priests and Levites succeding after them did minister vvithout a nevv anoynting or nevv impositioÌ„ of hands Yea that in the case of Idolatrie the Levites repenting kept their function the Priests also being onely debarred from the altar but still remayning Priests both doing such duties and enjoying such benefits thereof as the other Israelites might not no nor the Levites but in cases of necessitie Levit. 22 1-9 and Ezech. 44 10-14 2 King 23.9 with Lev. 21. and 24 9. Mat. 12 4.6 That in the Scriptures vvefinde how some Officers vvere admitted vvith it some vvithout it As about the Levites may be observed and about the Apostles also that Paul and Barnabas had imposition of hands vvhich we read not that the other Apostles had Act. 13 1 2 3.7 That some Churches hold it not of necessitie to be had That the Church of Scotland as we heare doth not use it at all but in stead thereof give the right hand of fellovvship That the first ministers and officers of the Dutch and French reformed Churches had no imposition of hands because at their first comming into order they had no Elders to impose hands That the ruling Elders and Deacons at this daye have no imposition of hands among them as vve understand That neyther the apostate nor the reformed Churches repeat it to the ministers vvhen they goe froÌ„ one Congregation to another among them 8. And it may also be observed that thus vve shevv the keeping of communion vvith all other Christians Churches what in us is as vve doe also by reteyning our baptisme and any other truths ordinances of God had among theÌ„ which still vve keep purging them onely from the corruptions wherewith they are defiled among them Novv vvhen upon our occasions divers things hereabout vvere observed among us vve thought it best to stay and consider further thereof knovving that if vve finde it to be such as ought to be done vve can doe it at any tyme or if it be othervvise that then this course vvhich vve took is the best Other reasons vve considered also on the other hand vvhich I need not here mention But seeing vve found that it was even froÌ„ the Apostles times in the church of Rome long before she became apostate as baptisme vvas and that the repeating of it among us and not regarding the having of it there is a meanes to strengtheÌ„ the Anabaptists in their errours and observing vvithall such coÌ„siderations about it as are here before related we stayed our selves and rested in this that the Church did chuse him into office and that vve did by prayer commend him unto God for his grace and assistance in the ministration thereof VVhich vve did vvithout imposition of hands at that tyme as both our selves had before done at our first growing into order and as the French and Dutch Churches also did when they first began reformation among them VVhereabout if any sounder and better course be shewed hereafter at any tyme we can then proceed further as there shal be cause In the meane tyme let it here be observed hovv these that thus object and their partakers can all of them hold that the people having no office may excommunicate and some of theÌ„ that they may also minister the Sacraments and yet can except against such as are in office if they doe but make questioÌ„ of a ceremonie or any thing thereabout And lastly let themselves consider hovv the Anabaptists object against us that vve receive such for members of our Church as were baptized by the Prelates and Priests in apostate Churches so as
omit divers things needful to be knowē and remembred As first vvhat the thing it self is that was propounded by us namely that for such as could not be content with protestation peaceably to walke with eyther Church at Leyden or here it should be free for them to goe from the one Church and Pastor to the other so as there were no other cause lying against them This vvas in deed propounded by my self having much thought and considered vvhat I could of any lavvfull meanes by vvhich we might come to some good end and agreement after our so long and lamentable troubles and contentions as vve had ben exercised withall VVhich when I had propounded they of Leyden answered that they were glad to hear of such a motion litle thinking that we had ben so inclyning to peace and agreement This to my remēbrance was the effect of the things that passed here about which if they had thought they should haue caryed themselues otherwise towards us then they had done And for the thing it self that they would consider of it with their Church and if eyther they or we mynded otherwise by the word of God that we should signify it VVhich caution being thus spoken of by them my self then said as I remember that I had thought so to haue spoken also concerning it but had forgottē when I spake to mention it And so then it vvas minded of us both to be considered of and prosequuted vvith this condition and limitation of being found lawfull by the word of God And let this for hereafter be still remembred because it vvill cleare all the question about this matter Secondly at the first treating of this matter between us the Officers of the Church of Leyden then present did so conceiue it as that our people which would not walk with this Church as is aforesaid should goe and remayne vvith them at Leyden VVhich some of them here observing excepting against it in respect of their meanes of living had here c. they were answered by them of Leyden that they must be cōtented to suffer or beare the crosse of Christ vvith them or to such effect Then also concerning the course aforesaid there vvas noted a double consideration about it The one about the doing of it so The later is the poynt which they doe so much urge as to live and remayne with the other Church whither they should goe The other about the doing of it so as that having once gone and joyned thewselues to the other Church they might then returne agayne to the towne where they lived before and there live apart from the Church whereof they had formerly ben And hereupon having speach about these tvvo courses the first vvas sooner conceired of and generally liked of all the latter vvas lesse conceived of and more called in question as aftervvard did appeare though for myne ovvn part I did my self so minde and like of it at that time And vvhen some among us propounded that such as vvent from us to Leyden and joyned to that Church should not be dismissed back by them againe to live apart from us in this tovvne both my self and the Elders of the other Church to my remembrance answered that this matter vvould concerne that Church to which they should joyne to look unto and so vvas to be left unto them But afterward considering yet further of the lavvfulnes of such dismission thither hither agayne I shewed my minde herein to be altered divers reasons thereabout Of vvhich I shall speak hereafter vvhen I come to that matter Thirdly vvhen the matters aforesaid vvhich vve had propounded vvere communicated vvith the Church at Leyden and their Elders returned hither againe they signifyed that these things came sodainly upō their Church yet for the present as they could in that tyme cōsider thereof they liked vvell of it or to such effect So now againe at this tyme we had more speach together thereabout The former of the tvvo courses as I said before vvas generally vvell approved and consented unto The latter vvas more doubted of and more question made about it in the end more more disliked by divers the more that it was perceived to be the brethrens purpose so to doe And this most appeared the next morning when the likelyhood of agreement that vvas the night before was then so changed upō further reasoning and consideration thereof as we could not accord therabout And so the Officers of the other Church signifying that they had great occasion to returne home and could then no longer stay departed and said it vvould be heavie to their Church to heare that the things vvere come to no better issue between us Yet vvhen they were gone we still continued speach among our selues about these things being sorie that they stood thus and that no better tidings should be caried to the other Church And then upon some speach so had together as vve could in that short time we came to this issue that we thought it best to agree upon the matter aforesaid in this sort that whatsoever blame should follovve hereupon if our people vvere by them of Leyden dismissed to liue here apart from us in this citie it should lye upon them and vve be free of it And so thereupon we presently sent three vvith this message after the brethren of Leyden if they could overtake them in tyme to signifie thus much unto them that they might also signifie it unto their Church And this I thinke is the agreement spoken of VVhich vvhen it vvas in this manner agreed upon some of the brethren present there being then but a sevv at that tyme came to the Elders shewing hovv they thought it needfull that this should be spoken of the Lords day after others say to this day they never consented unto it and some that they said then it vvas unlavvfull And these men thē selues it may be vvould be loth to stand to their ovvn positions about it that in a controversie the greater part should be the Church whether the Elders be vvith them or against them and that the matters of sinne and question touching the brethren should be heard and ended on the Lords day But I vvill proceede on to other matters that follovved aftervvard about these things Fourthly vvhiles things stood thus mōg us we had the Lords day following speach hereabout againe at vvhich tyme there vvas a nevv motion made for an other course to be taken by which we might keep together rather then to part asunder according to the other course spoken of VVhich being then propounded and not agreed upon vvas left to further consideration And so that week vvee wrote to the Church of Leyden thereabout By vvhich occasion after the aforesaid treating of these things had by vvord of mouth there passed also some letters betvveen us concerning them VVhich although in divers respects vve could be willing to keep among our selues yet considering in vvhat
and examples of the godly in former times if these men vvould novv vvithout prejudice examine their opinions and courses aforesaid they should finde it high time for them to make a stand to observe the vvork of God upon them to giue thēselues no rest till they haue forsaken their errours redressed their crooked waies be they othervvise never so pleasing unto thē or auncient with thē So should they in deed keep the auncient fayth and vvalk in the old and good vvay prescribed of God Let them therefore hearken to the instruction and counsel given unto them Let the vvaie of God be in their heart and his feare before their eyes Let them thinke on their owne vvaies and turne their feet unto his testimonies Let them make hast and not delay to keepe his cōmmandements Psal 119.59.60 And to this end let them about the things spoken of consider well of these two poynts 1. of the questions themselues that haue ben and are betvveen us and therein especially of those differences vvhereabout they severed themselues from us 2. of the charge layd upon the Pastors and Elders over the flock committed unto them by the Lord and of the dutie required of the people agayne tovvards the Governours vvhom the Lord sets over them in his stead Of the first I haue treated here and in another treatise before written about the exposition of Mat. 18.17 For the latter see these the like Scriptures throughout the book of God Exod. 20 12. 2 Chron. 26 16-21 Act. 20 17 28. Rom. 12 3-8 1 Cor. 12 28. Ephes 4 11-16 Col. 4 17. 1 Thes 5 12 13. 1 Tim. 5 17-21 and 6 13.14 Tit. 2 15. Iam. 5 14. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Rev. 2 3. Heb. 13 17. And novv to conclude besides all the former things we entreated them also that seing the same matter vvas then in hand both betvveene Mr. Amsworth and Mr. Bernard and betvveene Mr. Robinson and Mr. Bernard that therefore they vvould stay to see vvhat this vvay might come to passe for the more clearing of the poynts in difference betvveen us and our better accord thereabout But they vvould not be perswaded so to doe And then finally after a yeeres dispute publikly had by vvord of mouth Once a vveek cōmonly all the other meanes used among us I offered in the end as I said before to try out the matter in vvriting betvveen us and gaue forth unto them the observations vvhich then I had collected about Mat. 18.17 Which since are printed VVhich they both heard publikely read and had them to copy out afore they went avvay from us yet vvould they not yeeld hereunto But vvhen vve had appoynted another day in the vveeke about these things then had they some speach of divers particulars in the foresaid vvriting vvhereabout also vve spake agayne and so some speach passed between us thereabout but to giue ansvver unto it in vvriting they vvould not be perswaded Neyther vvould they continevve any longer with the Church but vvith great sinne and scandal divided themselues from us vvhich they professed that day December 15. and 16. 1610. practised the next and so haue continued ever since alledging the saying of the Apostle to the Romans Rom. 16 17 VVhich is so direct against themselues and for us as I vvill novv alledge no other Scripture at all against the division and scandals caused by them but leaue them even by this to be judged of their ovvne mouth VVhich they shall doe vvell to laye to heart to ponder seriously with themselues seeing that by the very Scripture vvhich thēselues alledged all are bound to marke them and avoyde them as having made division and offences contrarie to the doctrine vvhich we haue learned of the Prophets and Apostles of the Lord. Rom. 16 17. Thus haue I more largely then I thought vvritten hereabout and doe novv leaue it to your vvise and godly consideration as it shall please the Lord by his vvord and spirit to direct and persvvade you therein Farevvell in the Lord vvho remembreth his people in their base and distressed estate and giveth an issue vvith every tentation vvho also vvill deliver us from everie evill vvorke preserue us to his heavenly kingdome by Christ our Redeemer to vvhom be glorie for ever and ever Amen His grace be with you and his strong consolation in your spirit for ever Amen Yours Francis Iohnson THus good Reader I haue set downe M. Iohnsons Answer to the objections conteyned in M. A. letter and the printed copie about the division aforesayd Now I will here also annexe a note that vvas printed heretofore concerning these things vvhich being first discussed vvere then agreed upon by the Church The note is this as follovveth ¶ A NOTE OF SOME THINGS CALLED into question and controverted in the exiled English Church at Amsterdam By this course vve had much cōtention trouble c. It being held among us that such as vvere to be dealt vvithall publikly for sinne should not be admonished by the Elders vvhereupon the proceeding against them if they persisted therein might follovve but that the peoples consent vvas first to be taken afore the Elders did so admonish any such persons This poynt about admonition vvas handled and thus agreed upon from 2 Chron. 19 8 9 10. Deut. 17 8-13 1 Thes 5 12. c. to this effect viz. THat it is the dutie of the Elders in the publike administration of governement in matters brought to the Church to admonish the sinners and unrepentant vvithout requiring the people their consent first VVhich admonition of the Elders being despised the parties upon it are to be excōmunicated Our boūden duty in the Lord and freedome according to his vvord Both are to be respected observed aright And all the brethren are bound to consent unto such just rebuke or admonition given by the Elders as to the publike doctrine of the Church And consequently they are to assent unto all other the just administration of the Governours they being able to justify the same by the word of God And agayn the people haue libertie to except against and evince vvherein the Elders doe unjustly without warrant As also in all good order without disturbance and under correction they may aske resolutiō of their doubts And so by this meanes all popular confusion is avoyded libertie in the truth reteyned Also after much and often reasoning about our practise and understanding of Mat. 18 15 16 17. it vvas agreed by the Church That vve etred in the understanding of that Scripture namely in these particulars follovving First in that vve haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church c that they may not be understood of the Ievves Synedrion nor of the Christian Presbyterie or Eldership And this moreover so as some among us vvill by the word Church in that place haue understood men vvomen and children in ther ovvne persons meaning by
AN ADVERTISEMENT CONCERNING A BOOK LATELY PVblished by Christopher Lawne and others against the English exiled Church at Amsterdam By Richard Clyfton Teacher of the same Church Psal 57.4 My soule is among Lyons I lye among them that are set on fyre even the sonnes of men vvhose teeth are speares and arrovves and their tongue a sharp svvord Esa 50.6 I gave my back vnto the smyters my cheeks to them that plucked off the hayre I hid not my face from shame and spitting Mat. 10.24.25 The disciple is not above his master nor the servant above his Lord. It is ynough for the disciple that he be as his master is and the servant as his Lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub hovv much more them of his houshold PRINTED In the yeare of our Lord 1612. The Preface to the Reader CHristian Reader it is not unknowen that when Thomas White published his Book called A Discoverie of Brownisme as now againe of late Christopher Lawne others with him have done theirs that there was an Inquirie Answer thereof written by the Pastour of this Church wherein he followed the particulars from point to point In which regarde it may be thought lesse needefull to write any thing about this latter Book being of like matter and argument with the other Yet in some respects we have thought it not amisse now to give thee this short advertisement and the few observations following about the contents of this latter Book also especially about that poynt of the division made lately among us and the articles given out thereabout Concerning which there was not such occasion before eyther in that Answer to Thomas VVhite or in any other of our writings to publish somewhat thereabout as there was about the other matters cōteyned in this Book of theirs And therefore for thy better stay and information is the advertisement following now given thee about these things where they are more at large though yet but briefly spoken of Which thou shal◠do well to consider of indifferently and be not caried from the truth or against it by any sinister meanes used to that purpose but remember what hath ben the lot of the truth and servants of God in all ages And as thy love is to the Lord Iesus Christ so let it appeare in the imbracing of his truth revealed and i◠giving witnesse unto the same And the Lord our God increase in thyne hart the riches of the full assurance of understanding to knowe the mysterie of God Col. 2.2 even the father and of Christ and to rejoyce in the faith and order prescribed in his word And he give thee to discerne thereof aright that the entiseing words of mans wisdome deceive thee not but goe to the lavv and to the testimonie if they speak not according to this vvord it is because there is no light in them Esa 8.20 So mayest thou soundly judge of things that differ And the Lord give thee understanding in all all things 2 Tim. 2.7 AN ADVERTISEMENT CONcerning a Book lately published by Christopher Lavvne and others against the English exiled Church at Amsterdam WHen it pleased the Lord Iesus to reveale the vvord of his truth unto the Gentiles by the ministerie of his servants the Apostles there arose up adversaries to vvithstand the same and to abuse his vvitnesses thereof VVhē Paul and Barnabas vvere sent forth by the Lord to preach the Gospel to the nations they cōming to Paphus the Deputie Sergius Paulus called them unto him and desired to heare the vvord of God then Sathan stirred up his instrument Elymas a false Prophet and a sorcerer vvho vvithstood them sought to turne avvay the Deputie from the fayth Act. 13 6-10 The like also did some of the Ievves at Antiochia vvho seeing the vvord of God to prevayle amongst the Gentiles and them desirous of further instructiō therein vvere full of envie spake against those things vvhich vvere spoken of Paul contradicting blaspheming ver 45. Like enemies did Paul again finde at Ephesus of the Ievves For he having spoken boldly in their Synagogue for the space of three moonths disputing persvvading the things concerning the kingdome of God then certaine of the Ievves having their harts hardened not onely disobeyed and beleeved not the vvord but spake evill of that vvaie before the multitude Act. 19.8.9 And manie other the like exāples of men opposing against the vvord of truth and of haters persecuters of the professors thereof might be shevved both out of the Scriptures and ecclesiasticall histories And as then it vvas in the first opening of the light to the Gentiles that Sathan by his Ministers vvithstood the preaching thereof so novv since that the Lord in mercie hath discovered the man of sinne and caused his truth obscured by the darke mistes of Poperie againe to be revealed to us in these last tymes sending his first Apoc. 14.6 c. second and third Angels to preach an everlasting Gospel to thē that dvvell on the earth that vvere overspread in Apostasie vvith the errors abhominations of the man of sinne and to teach us to vvalke in the vvaies of God calling us from the vvorship of the beast and receiving of his marke to keepe the commandements of God and the faith of Iesus c. even novv also I say have there risen up enemies of all sortes to stoppe this vvaie of truth to reproch vexe and persequute the vvitnesses thereof For to passe by all those hard speaches and ungodly deeds that have bene since before the dayes of Luther against the Saincts and faith of Iesus I vvill come to our ovvne particular case and state vvhereof there be manie of us that by experience can give testimonie vvhat hard measure vve have susteyned for the cause of Christ and do still undergoe reproches sclanders railings against and the like as it cannot be unknovven especially to our countrimen vvhat vve have borne at the handes of some of them vvho have manie times vvaies smitten us vvith their tongues Ier. 18.18 besides all the other troubles and persecutions susteyned by us to imprisonment banishment and death it self And vvhat is it for but because according to the measure of grace given us from above vve have separated our selves frō such corruptions of Antichrist vvherein vve formerly stood and doe vvalke in the vvaie of the Lord revealed uuto us out of his vvord vvitnessing against all false vvaies and devises of men brought into the Church for the vvorship service of God our desire and indevour being to stand and plead for that old and good vvaie of God vvherein all are bound to vvalke Ier. 6.16 For if the opposition against us vvere onely and simply for sinne and through an hatred that such men have against sinne then vvould they first begin vvith them selves both to look to their ovvne sinnes and iniquities and to take the like course against the sinnes and
both vvhen occasionally some of us haue been vvith them there and also among them selues as vve hear vve haue therefore for these and other the like reasons thought it good not to keepe these things any longer private by us but for the better satisfying of all touching the things vve hold and the clearing of our selves from the imputations layed upon us hereabout and removing the scandall vvhich some have taken are like yet more to take upon the publishing of this vvriting of theirs novv therefore to print also the said Ansvver to their exceptions that men may see and be able the better to judge beÌ„tvveen us them vvhen they shall haue heard both of us speak shall have asvvell our ansvvers as their objections to read and consider of by the vvord of God And though it haue thus fallen out betvveen us and our brethren they grovven to that height that they vvould not be persvvaded to continevv vvith us in coÌ„munion vvise men vvill consider it is but an auncient practise of Sathan thus to disquiet and trouble the Church of God In the Church at Corinth vvere contentions and dissensions raised up amongst the brethren so that some held of one Teacher some of an other 1 Cor. 1 10-12 And aftervvard vvhat contention grevve betvveene the eastern and vvestern Churches about the time of keeping the feast of Easter none can be ignorant that hath read thereabout the auncient histories Also vvhat fell out betvveene our ovvne countrimen at Franckfurt in the daies of Q. Marie they beeing then in exile for the truth as novv vve are their troubles and contentions are extant in print thereabout Yea our Saviour himself sayth it must needs be that offences come Mat. 18.7 And the Apostle sayth there must be schismes and heresies among you that they which are approved may be made manifest 1 Cor. 11.18.19 Novv seeing the like troubles divisions and disagreements have fallen out in former times in the Churches of God and that men have their infirmities though othervvise being religious and fearing God they vvhich are of a spirituall discerning vvill not upon everie occasion that ariseth amongst the professors of Christ by reason of their vveaknesses and personall sinnes and infirmities open their mouthes to speake evil of the vvaie of God though some take pleasure therein vvho shall finde one daie the avenging hand of God upon them if they repent not And touching these persons aforesaid that have so separated from us and thus offensively vvritten I persvvade my self that manie of them are persvvaded though deceived by the subtiltie of Sathan that they have the truth and that they did runne at the first into these extremities being carried as the Anabaptists and others also haue been vvith a zeale for the truth glorie of God against that Antichristian Apostasie governmeÌ„t vvhich formerly the Prelates ministers of that usurped authoritie oppressed theÌ„ vvithall And for myne ovvne part I hope that so manie of them as are the Lords elect he vvill in time by the meanes used for their good give them to see both their errours they stand in their grievous sinne in so rashly and unjustly breaking off them selves from the Church vvhereof they stood members that others by their example vvill take heed of the like hereafter These things I thus vvrite not to excuse evil in any but to take avvay occasion froÌ„ them that seek occasion to rayse up sclander against the cause of God by reason of these things thus falling out amongst us and that men should knovve that the vvaie of God hangeth not upon the lives of men but is to be regarded in respect of the Lord the author thereof Verie evill therefore doe they that take occasion upoÌ„ such dissensions to blaspheme the truth it self The erroneous vvalking of any professors shall not excuse others that imbolden themselues thereby to stand in Apostasie and seeke not after the truth and vvaie of God that Christ hath commanded all to vvalke in Thus having good Reader praefixed this short advertisement for thy better informatioÌ„ about the things aforesaid as also about this my purpose in setting forth of this Ansvver to the Objections aforsaid receiue novv the Ansvver it self as it vvas penned by the vvriter thereof vvith some additions thereunto by the same author upon occasion of inlargeing and publishing of the said Exceptions novv printed This ansvver I pray thee Christian Reader vievv and consider vvell that if it be the vvil of God thou mayest be satisfyed of the truth vve hold about these things And if in any thing we fayle hereabout through ignorance and want of understanding we shall willingly receiue and that with thanks thy brotherly advertisement thereof And because among other things we are much abused about a particular concerning the Church of Rome wee haue therefore hereunto annexed somewhat out of the writings of M. Iunius against Bellarmine about that matter not that we relie upon the judgment of men in causes of Religion but because we knowe that manie who are caried with a praejudice against us will yet more staye them when they see what M. Iunius hath written of that argument In whose writing although there be some schoole termes hard to be englished well in our tounge for the understanding of all as we desire yet we have so done it into english as we hope the meaning thereof will by all be conceived and attayned unto And thus leaving these â—hings with the event thereof unto the Lord his good blessing of his mercie in Christ I humbly beseech the most vvise God to cause the light of his heavenly word to shine forth more and more for the discovering of all errour and false opinions courses hindering the successe of the auncient truth and so to establish the Churches of God in that old and good vvaie prescribed by the Lord and his Apostles and Prophets Amen A COPIE OF THE vvriting touching the division made among us vvhich vvas sent to a friend in England By Mr. H. A. BEcause you have heard of the sorrowes that have befallen us here M. Ains Letter whereby your grief is the more augmented and because the true report estate of things perhaps is not so well knowen unto you I will also briefly touch the smart wherewith God hath humbled us caused our breach to be as the sea which can not be cured Manie daies of comfort God gave us here together whilest in singlenes of hart we sought him in the mids of our pilgrimage with love peace But love of preheminence which hath alwaies troubled the Church of Christ hath also troubled us whilest the Governours of the Church which should serve it with meeknes would rule it with Lordship 1. Confes artic 24. Apol. pag 26.63 1 For whereas we had learned and professed that Christ hath given the power to receive in or to cut off any member to the vvhole bodie together of everie Congregation
not to any one or moe members sequestred from the vvhole Now we have been lately taught that the Church which Christ sendeth to for the redresse of sinnes Mat. 18.17 is not to be understood of the whole bodie of the Congregation but of the Church of Elders And it being graunted of all that with the Church is the power the Elders being the Church have the power and so not the whole bodie of the congregation together 2 We had learned 2. Treâ—â— of the Ministerie of Eng. pag. 63. Apol. pag. 63. that everie true Church of Christ hath this povver to cast out obstinate sinners from amongst theÌ„ and this not onely vvhen it hath Officers but also vvhen it vvanteth them But wow we were taught that a people without Officers have not power to cast out obstinate sinners Which doctrine amongst other evils overthroweth the constitution of the Church that so taught for it was gathered and constituted by Christians without Officers receiving in the repentant and casting out the disobedient whereas by this opinion they had power from Christ to doe neyther for they that can not cast out can not receive in one power is for both 3 We had learned that everie Christian Congregation hath povver and commandement to elect ordeyne their ovvn ministerie according to the rules of Gods vvord 3. Confes art 23. 35. Apol. pag. 46. and upon such default in life doctrine or administration as by the rule of the vvord depriveth them of the ministerie by due order to depose them from their ministerie they exercised yea if the case so require orderly to cut them off by excommunication But now it is by some mainteyned that the Congregation can neither put into office nor put out of office unlesse they have officers to doe both and can neyther for heresie nor other vvickednes excommunicate or depose their Eldership 4 We had learned that none may execute a ministerie 4. Confes art 21. but such as are rightly called by the Church vvhereof they stand ministers unto such offices and in such manner as God hath prescribed in his vvord But now those will execute a ministerie which have not rightly been called by the Church whereof they stand Ministers according to their owne account and doctrine which hold as before that a people without Officers have no warrant from God to make or depose Ministers 5 We had learned that it vvas grosse error and notorious absurditie 5. Apol. p. 113. 116 n. 112. either to hold the popish Church to be a true Church having a true ministerie and true Sacraments or els that men must admit of rebaptising But now wee have heard that the Baptisme of the Popish Church is true Baptisme by which we are bound to communion or els that men must be rebaptised and that the Church of Rome is the Church of God because Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God 6 We had learned that all particular Congregations are by all meanes convenient to have the counsel and help one of 6. Conf. art 38. another in all needfull affaires of the Church as meÌ„bers of one bodie in the coÌ„mon faith yet here when differences had arisen about our coÌ„mon faith and could not amongst our selves be coÌ„posed they would not desire nor consent to have desired the help of our sister Church at Leyden althovgh it were instantly urged by many members that their assistance should be had And when without their consent the help of that Church was obteyned they laboured our peace a waie of peace was agreed off between the Churches this agrement and peace was not stood unto but reversed by them contrarie to our wil to the wil and liking of the Church at Leyden as the same Church can testifie for us Wherefore after long disputing these matters when no waie of peace could by us be found to continue together in the truth holynes But lamentable Dissipation of the Church members began to growe to the dishonour of Gods name wounding of our harts we followed the commandement of the Apostle which sayd I beseech you brethren marke them diligently which cause divisions offences contrarie to the doctrine which we have learned and avoyde them Rom. 16.17 And have sithens laboured to build up our selves in the holie faith whereunto God hath called us in love peace mourning for the great scandall and reproch which Sathan hath wrought by this breach amongst us Thus have I shewed you the fountaine of our sorrowes which God for our sinnes hath brought upon us He look upoÌ„ us in mercie pittie the dispersion of Sion And you as you have knowen the truth which is sealed to your conscience so abide therein faithfull unto the end knowing it is the lot of Gods people thus to be exercised with troubles in it self which if we beare with patience and constansie doe overcome our portion shall be in the tree of life which is in the midest of the Paradise of God H. A. THE ARTICLES AND OBIECTIONS About the division vvhich are published in Lawnes discoverie of schisme page 79. c. THe 23 article of the Confession of our faith whereto also our Apologie agreeth page 46.47 professeth that everie Christian congregation hath povver to elect ordeyne their ovvne ministerie c. upon desert againe to depose yea excommunicate them These have defended that a Congregation without Ministers can not ordeyne officers And that if the Eldership fall into heresie or wickednesse the whole Congregation cannot depose nor excoÌ„municate them And that a Congregation without an Eldership cannot excommunicate any wicked person whatsoever 2. The 24 article confirmed in our Apologie page 60.62.63 professeth that the povver to receiue in or to cut off any member is given to the vvhole bodie together of everie Christian Congregation Mat. 18.17 c. These have pleaded for the Eldership to be the Church Mat. 18. to have both rightfull power and able power to excommunicate though without against the consent of the bodie of the Congregation 3. The 29 article as also our Apologie page 51.52 professeth that the Hierarchie of Archbishops Lordbishoppes Priests c. are a straunge and Antichristian Ministerie Officers not instituted by Christs Testament nor placed in or over his Church These have placed over them one that was made Priest by a Lordbishops ordination so as because of it they did not ordeyne or impose hands on him when at the same time they ordeyned and imposed hands on others whom together with him they set over the Church 4. The 31 article and also our Apologie page 109. professeth that such ecclesiasticall assemblies as remaine so in coÌ„fusion bondage under that Antichristian Ministerie Courts Canons c. caÌ„not be esteemed true visible Churches c. These now pleade not onely for them but for Rome it self to be the true Church of God 5. The 32 article whereto our Apologie agreeth page
rejoycing one vvith another 1 Cor. 12 22-26 And furthermore hovv it vvas also affirmed that in cases of question and controversie the greater part of the people though vvithout against all the Elders and other brethren are the bodie and the Church there spoken of yea though they be in errour c. And novv in their exceptions pleading about it they speak of the whole Congregation and of the bodie of the Congregation in an opposition against the Eldership and so seeme here to imply also such an understanding thereof Touching all which it were long to rehearse eyther what reasoning vve had or vvhat might be shevved about these poynts But some fevve things I vvill note thereabout And first if this rule befound in the book of Numbers and lavves of Israel as by the doctrine allegations aforesaid appeareth then is it not a nevv rule first given in Mat. 18.17 as vvas held and urged both often and earnestly among us Secondly these Scriptures in the book of Numbers speak of civil cases and government and yet vvhen vve alledge these or the like about the Elders as they doe about the people they except against us as if vve misapplyed the Scriptures and give the Elders civill authoritie vvhich I suppose they vvill not give to the people though they make such allegations about them in this question as vve doe about the Elders Num. 15.33 27.2 35.12 Thirdly touching these Scriptures and the like it is certaine that the sinners and pleas in Israel vvere brought before the Congregation of Elders to be judged by them as may appeare by these Scriptures them selves being compared vvith Num. 36.2 Deut. 19.12.17 and 1.12.16 and 16.18 and 17 8-12 Iosh 20.4.5.6 1 Sam. 2.25 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Psal 82 1-6 Mat. 5.22 Lnk. 22.66 Act. 6.12 c. Moreover Num. 15.33 and 27.2 tvvo of the Scriptures alledged speak of the people of Israel vvhen they vvere in the wildernes vvhere they vvere sixe hundred thousand men beside children Exod. 12.37 And would they have us thinke that this people came together to hear examine and judge the cases of sinne and question there spoken of or that the parties there mentioned were brought or came unto all that Congregation as they vvould have the causes of sinne and sinners to be brought unto the vvhole Church and congregation among us yea and the people to be bound to come judge the brethrens causes that doe fall out from time to time And for the third Scripture so alledged by them Num. 35.12 if it be compared vvith Deut. 19 4-12 it maketh the poynt yet more playne against them selues For Moses speaking of one and the same matter in both those places Num. 25.12 useth in the one place the vvord Congregation in the other the terme of Elders as if he vvould himself tell us that he speaks of the Congregation of Elders Deut. 19.12 To vvhich end also see Iosh 20.4.5.6 where the same matter is againe spoken of Deut. 19 15-18 vvhere after the treating of the former matter he giveth a generall rule for the cases that might fal out among them And vvhether novv vve should beleeve Moses or them let themselves judge Touching the phrase of the Kingdome of heaven Mat. 18.1 c. Mat. 18.1 c. hovvsoever many have ben caryed thereby to think that this is a nevv rule and perteyning onely to the Churches of the Gospel since Christ and that the people now are otherwise interessed in the Churches government then they vvere in Israel of old yet it is evident that the same phrase is also spoken of the state and Church of the Ievves Mat. 22.2 c. and that therefore such collections from this manner of speach are not sound And vvhat is there here taught by Christ that the Iewes should not be carefull to observe asvvell as vve Should not they be humble and harmlesse as litle children and so enter into the kingdome of heaven Mat. 18 1-4 with Psal 131.1.2 Prov. 15.33 and 16.19 and 18.12 and 25.6.7 1 Sam. 12.3.4 Psal 138.6 Should they not avoyd giving offiences to others vvhen others offended thē should they not deale with them and shevve them their sinne And if they did not repent and amend bring them to the Congregation of Elders to be further dealt vvith according to their demerit Or if they did repent forgive them Mat. 18 5-22 with Lev. 19.14.16.17.18 Deut 19 15-19 and 21 18-21 and 25 5-9 with Ruth 3 9-13 and 4 1-13 1 Sam. 2.25 Esa 58.6.7 And further in the same chapter it may be observed Mat. 18.23 c. that Christ teaching hovv God requireth men to forgive one another their sinnes under the similitude of a king taking account of his servants propoundeth it by the same phrase of the kingdome of heaven And this also is a dutie vvhich God required of the Ievves alvvayes asvvell as of us novv Lev. 19.18 Exod. 23 4.5 Psal 7.4 Act. 7 26. And in the next chapter Mat. 19.13.14 Christ speaking of litle childrē that vvere brought unto him sayth that of such is the kingdome of heaven VVhich vvas alvvayes true of the infants and children of the Ievves as of ours novv But if any vvould gather hereupon for babes and litle children as some doe for the men vvomen greater childrē upon the like maner of speach that therefore they are to have a hand in the Churches government and that the causes of sinne and question falling out in the church should be brought unto them asvvell as to the Elders and they bound to be present to hear and judge all such causes arising among the brethren I suppose the people them selves that hold the former opinion and make such collections to maynteyne it for the vvhole Congregation yet vvould think it absurd thus to reason about the lesser children although they be of the bodie of the Congregation that of such also is the kingdome of heaven Againe in the next chapter save one Mat. 21.43 Matthevv sheweth hovv Christ sayd that the kingdome of God should be taken from the Ievves and given to the Gentiles a nation that should bring forth the fruits thereof Mat. 21 43. So as then by the doctrine of Christ himself it is one and the same kingdome of God under vvhich the Ievves vvere vve novv are The differences about some vvorldly ceremoniall and mutable things neyther doe nor can carrie vvith them an abolition of the things spirituall morall and perpetuall Neyther may vve at any hand or under any pretence suffer our selves to be made aliants from the common vvealth of Israel as is noted before For the other Scripture 1 Cor. 12. chap. 1 Cor. 12 chap. the Apostles purpose is not there to speak of the cases and pleas about sinne and of the maner of dealing therein as in Mat. 18.15 16 17. and as our question vvas among us but of the diversitie and inaequalitie of gifts
functions given by the Lord in and to his church for the help and service of all to the building up of the mysticall bodie of Christ VVhereupon the Apostle shevveth it also by the similitude proportion of the members of the naturall bodie and of the severall faculties thereof vvhich he applyeth and extendeth even to the feeblest members and to the least and youngest children of the Church that are but newly baptised 1 Cor. 12 13-22 c. to vvhom yet he appointeth not the cases of sinne and pleas of the other members of the church to be brought for judgement censure as these men hereupon vvould inferre and as the matter in question is about Mat. 18 17. Moreover the things there spoken of the bodie and of the parts thereof might likevvise of old be applyed to Israel according to their estate and they vvere then bound accordingly to vvalke as members of one and the same bodie affording all help service and comfort they could one unto another Yet this might not then nor may not now hinder nor pervert the ordinance of God about the Elders hearing and judging the causes of their brethren censuring them according to their demerit but in deede it doth much more strongly establish it inasmuch as the Governours are by the Lord set in the Church for that use and so for the benefit of the whole as also that all the members have not gifts fit for examining of persons and deciding of cases and questions that doe fall out and yet notvvithstanding are members in the bodie and have othervvise their good use being fitly imployed and must be holpen of the rest as their need is and be partakers of the gifts bestovved upon others for their good and comfort And yet further this Scripture is more direct against thē in that it sheweth how in the Church some have a more chief place then others as the head eyes hands in the bodie are therefore to be respected imployed according to their gifts and place vvherein God hath set them 1 Cor. 12.14 28. VVhich is litle regarded of them vvho in cases of question and controversie vvhere there is greatest need of most knovvledge and vvisedome vvill then look vvhere the greatest number of the people is though they may be of the most simple and vvill have them to be the Church and to haue the Churches povver and authoritie to give the sentence yea albeit that all the Elders other brethren of better judgment but fevver in number be against them as if the multitude should still be follovved that there vvere no difference or inequalitie of gifts of Office or other respect at all to be had VVhich how far it is from the intendement of this Scripture alledged by themselues let all that understand according to sobrietie judge And let these men if they vvill not be taught otherwise 1 Cor. 12. cōpare vvith it rom 12. 3-8 yet learne of their ovvne bodies from vvhich the Apostle borrovveth his similitude here and there they shall see that all the members of the bodie are not given or used for counsel and determination in the things that concerne it though yet they have their other profitable use whereupon it is that vvhen some part of the bodie is hurt the hand is not used or sought unto to see withall nor the foot to heare neyther doth the head take them to consult and determine vvhat to doe there about but vvhen the head it self hath considered determined according to the gift dutie thereof then it useth the help of the hand or foot or any or all the members according as there is need and occasion And thus have all the members their good use service in the bodie being rightly used applyed thereunto But should novv hereupon the hands or feet say because they are not sought unto and employed to see hear determine as the eye eare and head are that therefore they loose their right and are not used or regarded as the mēbers of the bodie should Yet after such a maner plead the people aforesaid that they are vvronged loose their right and libertie if vvhen matters of sinne and question arise between brethren of the church they be not sought unto and bound to come together to hear and determine the cases to examine and censure the persons so dealt vvithall Nay though the Elders sitte publickly to hear and judge such causes and that it be left free for any of the people to come that vvil yet they thinke they have injurie unles that they be called upon and bound to come together and that they also make inquisition and censure the causes and persons dealt vvithall that the greater number of their voyces though vvithout and against all the Elders be taken for the Churches sentence c. VVhich in deed what is it els but as if eyther the whole bodie should become one member an eye an eare an head or the like or as if the foot should say Because I am not the hand I am not of the bodie or as if the hand should say Because I am not employed as the eye eare or head therefore I lose my right and am not used or esteemed in the bodie as I ought to be Yea vvhat is it els but to bring them selves into bondage and in deed to bring an Antichristian servitude on the people in the Church vvhen it being left free unto them to come or not to come yet that shall not suffice unles they be bound thereunto as is aforesaid And so it shall not be ynough that the Elders by their Office are bound unto it Rom. 12 7 8. 1 Thes 5.12.13 1 Tim. 5.17.18 and ought to have mayntenance for the doing of it and of the other duties of their Office but the men must vvithout any allowance for it leave their trades and callings the vvomen their houses and samilies the children their schooling and employment the servants their vvork and labour As may come to passe in great cōgregatiōs when many cases are to be heard c. and must come together though it should be day after day to heare and judge the cases that fall out betvveen brother and brother according to Mat. 18.17 For by this Scripture in 1 Cor. 12. chap. they vvill have it understood of men vvomen and children that can sorrovv and rejoyce vvith others as before vvas shewed And many moe things might be noted about this and the other Scriptures spoken of but these few observations may suffice Yet afore I proceed let me by this occasion note tvvo things more hereabout in generall The one that as it often cometh to passe vvith heretiks schismatiks Antichristians that the verie Scriptures alledged by themselves being searched and duly vveighed they are fit forceable against themselues so it is fallen out vvith these men in this case as may appeare by that vvhich hath ben sayd touching the
2-5 and 15.4 c. For novv it vvill be ansvvered them that in Israels apostasie they kept circumcision which needed not to be repeated seeing it vvas true and sealed Gods covenant unto them but that these cannot so plead for the baptisme had in the apostasie of Rome because themselves say the baptisme of the church of Rome is not true baptisme and so not the seale of Gods covenant to them vvhich have no other but it VVhereunto vvhat they vvill ansvver let them bethinke themselves And let thē shevv us by vvhat Scriptures they can approve their standing novv vvho vvittingly vvillingly remayne without true baptisme to seale unto them the covenant of God in Iesus Christ Finally if the baptisme had in the Church of Rome be not true baptisme then as they also sayd it is an idol bearing the shevv and image of that vvhich it is not in truth and substance And so then apply hither that vvhich Mr. Ains hath observed in his Arrovve against idolatrie hovv God manifesteth the vanitie and filthynes of Idols by titles and names given unto them Pag. 13. 14. For Idols sayth he are called things of naught as it vvere filths doung or excrements loth some things or detestable and abhominations vanities lyes unprofitable false-vanities leasings and vayn-iniquitie Thus he vvriteth of Idols in that place so as by their opinion the Baptisme of the Church of Rome is a thing of naught and therefore to be esteemed as nothing in the world as it were filth or doung and therefore to be cast out a loth some thing and therefore to be detested an abhomination and therefore to be abhorred a vanitie a lye unprofitable false-vanitie leasing and vayn-iniquitie and therefore that all vvho have received it should renounce it cast it avvay as a menstruous cloth and say unto it Get thee hence as Esay teacheth vvhen he shevveth the vvay vvherein we should vvalk even thus to deale vvith the monuments and most precious ornaments of idolatrie therefore much more with the idols themselves Esa 30.21.22 VVhich till these men be carefull to doe with the idols reteyned among thē they must be contented by their ovvne opinion to be accounted among those many sorts of idolaters which defile themselves with idols of vvhom Mr. Ainsw speaketh in the same place of his book aforesayd A great sinne it vvas that they fell into if there had ben no other but it that vvithout just cause they brake avvay divided themselves from the Church vvhereof they vvere but seeing that therevvith they have also other very erroneous opinions and the sinfull usurpation of all the holy things of God used among thē vvhat an heavy estate doe they stand in and hovv greatly doth it import them to consider their vvaies in their heart and to turne their feet unto the testimonies of the Lord Othervvise let them remember that which the Apostle wrote to the Corinthians Doe we provoke the Lord to ielousie are we stronger then he 1 Cor. 10.22 And thus much I thought here by this occasion to vvrite about the baptisme of the Church of Rome novv I vvill come to speak of the Church it self As touching the Church of Rome there being also at that tyme speach about it to be the Church of God I did in deede alledge the saying of the Apostle that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God as the Apostle expressely teacheth 2 Thes 2.4 And by the Temple of God understanding the Church of God it vvill follow that Antichrist should sit in the Church of God and is there to be sought and found and not among the Ievves Turks Pagans or the like as the Papists others vvould persvvade us neyther that Antichrist takes avvay wholy the Church of God and everie truth and ordinance of the Lord as Anabaptists and such as are herein Anabaptistically inclined would beare us in hand Observe also here agayne that vvhich is sayd Rev. 18 4. Goe out of her my people and partake not in her sinnes c. vvhere those vvords my people imply the covenant of God continued among them For thus is the covenant taught and set dovvne unto us in the Scripture I will be your God and you shall be my people And so is Israel often called the Lords people is thus spoken of in the time of their apostasie by the Prophets 2 King 9 6. 13.23 2 Chron. 30 6-9 Hos 4 6 12. and 5.4 and 14.2 Amos 7.15 and 8.2 c. And note here also hovv the other clause partake not in her sinnes shevveth vvhat vve are to leave and renounce namely their sinnes and iniquities vvherein they transgresse the lavv of God and not vvhatsoever is had or reteyned by them Furthermore it is undenyable and vve have heretofore urged it much against the Anabaptists that the Church of Rome vvas at first set in the vvaie of God was not onely one of the Churches of God Rom. 2.8 16.19 but for their fayth and obedience vvas also very famous over the world Since vvhich tyme shee is fallen into great apostasie and adulteries Esa 1.2 Ier. 2.21 Ezec. 16. 23. ch 1 Kin. 12 28-33 14.22.23.24 2 Chro. 13.5 c. as Israel did in former tymes In all vvhich her adulterate apostate estate she hath notvvithstanding still kept even to this day sundrie truths and ordinances of God mixed vvith them her ovvne inventions traditions as Israel also did VVhich being observed aright causeth a tvvofold consideration of her estate as of Israels one in respect of the truths and ordinances of God still reteyned among them another in respect of the mixture of their ovvne inventions and abhominations vvithall in regarde of the one to hold and acknowledge the truth Church of God there against the Anabaptists in regarde of the other to consider and observe their apostasie and Babylonish confusion against Antichrist and for this cause namely for this defection and mixture aforesayd to separate from them and vvitnes agaynst thē being alvvay carefull in our testimonie and practise to reteyne and maynteyne everie truth ordinance of God vvhich was in that Church before their apostasie and is yet continued therein to this day leaving onely and forsaking their corruptions and mixture of their ovvne inventions therevvith least othervvise vve should be brought our selves or be occasion to others to fall into Anabaptistrie and divers other errours and evils as by lamentable example of others vve have seen Note here also a double consideration about the covenant of God made vvith his people one in respect of the Lord himself on the one part the other in respect of the people taken into covenant by him on the other part Deut. 26.17.18.19 Iudg. 2.1 20. For it often cometh to passe that the people doe on their part transgresse break the covenant vvhen the Lord doth not so on his part but still remembring his covenant counts them his people calls them to
repentance follovves them sometymes with judgment sometymes vvith mereie and compassion c. Levit. 26 15-45 Ezech. 16 59-62 Iudg. 2 1-20 c. Thus in Israel vvho vvere the Lords people it may be noted how they goe a whoring after their ovvne inventions fall into idolatrie and false vvorship runne into sinne after sinne and become an harlot transgressing the covenant on their part Exod. 32. Iudg. 2. and 3. with Psa 78 56-58 1 Sam. 7 3 4. 1 King 12 28-33 and 14.22.23.24 with 2 Chron. 12. and 13. and 1 King 19.10 Hos 6.7 and 8.1 Yet the Lord breaks it not on his part but sometymes of himself sometymes at the intreatie of his prophets servants he spareth them and doth not destroy them or presently give them a bill of divorce according to their demerit but in his mercie as a loving husband he cals them to repentance and to that end he sends unto them Prophets after Prophets a long tyme to dravve thē to amendement and cals them still his people and helps them and casts thē not of Yet so as besides his vvord sent unto them he also adjoyneth corrections punishmments both for avenging the quarrel of his covenant upon them and for procuring their conversion by all maner meanes vvhat may be As in the books of Moses and historie of the Iudges Samuel Kings and Chronicles compared vvith the Prophets may be seen And particularly in the Scriptures here noted before and the like as Exod. 33. and 34. c. Levit. 26 14.15-25-42-44.45 Iudg. 2.1 c. Psal 78. 1 King 13. and 16. and 18. 2 King 5.8.15.17 with Ier. 51.5 and Ezech 16.59.60 c. Hoseas and Amos their Prophecies c. And in these tvvo divers respects sometymes having reference to God sometymes to Israel may there many things in the Scriptures be observed to be spoken diversly For example Israel considered in themselues and their idolatrous estate are sayd to be vvithout God vvithout Priest to teach and vvithout lavv to forsake and break the covenant of the Lord to provoke the Lord to anger by their vanities not to be the Lords vvife but an harlot going a vvhoring after their ovvne inventions and having childrē of vvhooredomes yea and that the Lord is not with Israel or vvith any of Ephraim 2 Chron. 15.3 1. King 12.28.33 and 15.34 and 16 13.26.31-33 and 19.14 Hose 2 1-5 and 5.3.4 and 8.1 and 9.1 with Psalm 106.29.39 Ezech. 16. and 23. chap. 2 Chron. 25.7 But agayne being considered in respect of the Lord and his covenant into vvhich they vvere received and vvhich he breakes not on his part but calls them to repentance c. the Lord is called their God and they are called the people of the Lord and their children borne to the Lord and Israel not to have ben a vvidovve forsaken of God but that the Lord had mercie on them and pitied them and respected them because of his covenant vvith Abraham Isaac and Iacob and that he vvould not destroy them nor cast them off from him as yet c. And thus continued Israel a long tyme respected of the Lord notvvithstanding her apostasic c. Iudg. 2 1. c. 1 King 18 36. 2 King 9 6 Hos 4.6 12. and 5 4. and 7 10. and 8 2. 9 1. 14.1 2. Amos 7 15. with Psal 89 30-34 and Ezech. 16 20 60. and Ier. 51.5 and 2 King 13 23. Yet notvvithstanding in these tymes the Prophets taught the people to plead vvith their mother about her adulteries to separate themselves and not to come at the places of their vvorship nor to communicate vvith them and bring their sacrifices thither because in so doing they should multiply their transgressions c. Hos 2 1-5 and 4 12.14.15 Amos 4 4 5. and 5 4 5. And all these things are vvritten for our learning are to be applyed to the estate of the Churches in apostasie under the Gospel since Christ Rom. 15 4. with 1 Cor. 10.11 Moreover besides that the vvord Church is taken sometymes more largely sometymes more strictly vvhich about this question likevvise may be observed there is yet further also a double regarde that may be had of apostate Churches in all ages according as they are considered and spoken of in comparison with other people of divers sorts As namely Israel in apostasie being compared vvith the Syrians Philistims Moabites and other nations are called and ought to be accounted the people of God vvho have the onely true God for their God c. 2 King 3.8 15.17 and 9 6. c. But being compared vvith Iudah vvhich ruled vvith God and vvas faythfull vvith the Saincts she is called an harlot not the vvife of God but a vvhoore committing adulterie and compassing God about vvith lyes and deceit c. Hos 2.2.5 4 15. 5.3 4. and 9 1. and 11.12 c. In like maner the Church of Rome in apostasie being compared vvith the Ievves Turkes and Pagans they are and ought to be accounted Christians and the Temple of God VVhere also is verified that which the Apostle spake of Antichrists sitting in the Temple of God 2 Thes 2.4 not the Temple of Ierusalem as some to turne away the truth have imagined but the Temple of Christians the Church of God brought to the sayth of Christ and professing to be Christians as may appeare by these scriptures and the like compared together 2 Thes 2.4 with Ezech. 43.7.8 Zath 6.12.13 Ephes 2 11-13.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 Rev. 11.19 and as it is also under stood by all sound writers both old and new But agayne being compared vvith the auncient Church of Rome and other primitive Churches in the Apostles tymes and such as novv vvalke in their steps and in the good and old vvay ruling vvith God and abyding faythfull vvith his saincts she is called and is to be esteemed an harlot the great vvhoore the mother of the whooredomes and abhominations of the earth beleeving speaking lyes in hypocrisie giving heed to seducing spirits and having pleasure in unrighteousnes c. Revel 17.1.5 1 Tim. 4.1.2.3 2 Thes 2 3-10 11.12 And thus there being in divers respects a double consideration had of the Church of Rome novv as of Israel heretofore it vvill appeare hovv in one respect it may be sayd there is the Church of God or a true Church there in another respect there is an apostate or a false Church there as it is sayd by the Apostle of one and the same woman that she is dead and alive in divers respects 1 Tim. 5.6 And of the Iewes that they are enimies in one respect and yet beloved in another Rom. 11 28. So Iohn Baptist is Elias and is not Elias in divers respects Iohn 1 21. with Mat. 11 7-14 and 17 10-13 Iudas is an Apostle and yet a divel Mat. 10.2 4. Ioh. 6.70 The Ievves are the children of Abraham and yet the children of the divel Ioh. 8.33.34 As the Prophets also
auncient fayth both ours and theirs 4. That vvhen vve vvrote to them agayne hereabout vve acknovvledged great differences to be betvveene them and the other but touching the doctrines and questions controverted vve prayed them to consider that the fayth of this Church was that onely which is grounded upon the vvord of God in the vvritings of the Prophets and Apostles and that so our fayth is the common and auncient fayth which was held by the Church of Israel of old by the Primitive churches of the Ievves and Gentiles since the comming of Christ From which vvherein soever we had swarved in fayth or practise it had ben our aberration and not our fayth indeed Against which also whatsoever should be brought in reteyned or defended it was against our common and auncient fayth both theirs ours And vvhether therefore it vvere about the Word Sacraments or Government of the Church as about all these wee had found opposition it came to a like end Also that in all the three vve had resisted the persons spoken of being such as would have brought in among us new doctrines fayths in them all though in the last vve had done it least of all and that novv still we purposed by the grace of God to stand against all that eyther in all or any of them should oppose against the truth And here by this occasion we intreated to knovv of them whether they also were not like mynded with the other men aforesayd agreeing with them in the points of the church Officers and Governement as they held and vvrote thereof before they fell to their errours of Anabaptisme c. VVhereunto vve had no answer at all from them VVhich is a thing also to be observed 5. That in this tyme in the same letters we wrote to them about a letter sent unto them by many of our people concerning these matters as themselues had certified us desiring to haue a copie of it together with the names that vvere subscribed thereunto and the things delivered by word of mouth as was told us that we might the better consider of these things of our peoples dealing thereabout And vvhen thus vve could not obteyne it of them vve alledged divers reasons to perswade them to send it unto us viz that the matters written of vvere touching our publick affayres estate whatsoever might concerne any of us more particularly besides that the persons vvhich sent it were mēbers of our Church that if the thing done vvere good it vvould abide the light and they should doe vvell to follovv the Apostles example vvho shevved the Church of Corinth both the parties and the particulars signified unto him by them 1 Cor. 1 11. but if it were evill then it behoved them so much the more to give Gen. 37.2 Exod. 20.12 16. Iob 29.16 Prov. 18.17 Act. 20.28 c. and us to have from them the full knovvledge of the things aforesayd that it might be seen they did not partake with them in their evill and that vve might doe our dutie according to that which layd upon us in this behalf c. that vvhereas they vvrote their purpose was to come unto us according to the request of the brethren vvhich had moved thē c. they gave us occasion to signifie unto them that till vve knew who those brethren vvere and what had passed between them we could not so well admit thereof for the reasons before rendred unto them that we were constreyned the more to defier them to send it us because vvhen the Elders here asked some for it vvhom they understood to be of those parties they answered that here they had not eyther the Originall perfit or a perfit copie neyther any note of the names subscribed finally that if they would not send it but still keep it from us then they and the parties here gave us cause to refuse to haue dealing vvith them about the things spokē of that so the hinderance should be in themselves therefore if they would there should be no such hinderance but that vve should afterward haue reasoning with them about the matters aforesaid and did in deed seeke the peace good of this Church they should shevv it forth by sending unto us a copie of those things whereabout vve had vvritten unto them three tymes c. But yet notvvithstanding any intreatie or reasons alledged about it we could not by any meanes get a copie thereof eyther there or here VVhat vve heard was in it other circumstances dealing about it I doe omit now to speak of and vvill proceede to other things about the matter in hand And next of all it is to be observed that to all the letters and matters aforesayd written by us to Leyden hereabout M. A. himself subscribed as vvell as vve So that if it were evill in us it vvas also evill in himself VVhich let him acknovvledge knovvledge taking avvay the former reasons and shewing it by the vvord of God that vve may doe likevvise Or if he can vvarrant his ovvne doing therein vvhy doth he thus object against us that very thing vvherein himself joyned and subscribed vvith us at that tyme Let him also tell us vvhether therein he denyed the practise of that article in the Cōfession about having the counsel and help of that Church or vvhether he yeelded unto it by permission but absteyned from sending for them or giving approbation to their coming for the reasons aforesayd Let him also call to minde vvhether himself as I remember did not say or at least heard some of us say upon former experience had vvith others that whiles we lived vve would take heed how we consented to any other in like sort to come publikly into the Church vvhom we knewe aforehand to be in errour and so purposed to mainteyne the same But be it that we should haue desired this or at least consented to haue it desired as is implyed here yet though vve did it not the help of that Church was procured and obteyned as is sayd here and in the printed copie So then the thing it self vvas had by their ovvne saying how ever there wanted our desire of it or consenting thereunto Though yet they should not forget that vve consented to the permission of it and shevved reasons of our resrayning from doing more in this case as is aforesayd Now therefore when their help was procured and that they were come how vvere the things then caryed VVhere omitting to speak of that vvhich passed from them to keep to those that concerne our selues they all knowe that we reasoned vvith them publikly about the matter in question And that vve consulted advised vvith them about some course to be taken for procuring and keeping peace betvveen us And this not onely at that tyme but afterward also both by vvord and vvriting So then vve both reasoned vvith them about the poynts in difference we used their counsel and help
they speak And so that vvhich they did vvas both vvithout our agreement and the Churches of Leyden for ought vve knovve Neyther haue they here set dovvne the cause that moved them not to goe to Leyden first and joyne there according to the former agreement afore they had taken this course of meeting apart from us here If they vvould haue this taken for a declaration of that vvhich they intended indeed that if they had gone to Leyden and joyned there it should haue ben but for the satisfying of our mindes vvhom they savve to be troubled about the dismission of them and that in deed they meant not to liue and remayne with that Church and Pastor there but vvhen they had so done then to come liue apart from us as novv they doe vve and others may accordingly esteeme thereof and take it as a further confirmation of the reasons alledged for the reversing of our consent to the agreement aforesaid There is also a clause inserted by them in their third particular novv treated of vvhere they say that in the treatie of the Agreement it was testifyed by the Elders of the Church of Leyden that unlesse it were to the apparant undoing of thē of their families they should not be dismissed agayne to dwell here which whether it did any way moue them in this behalf to doe as they did themselues know best My self cannot say that it did But this is sure that some haue gone from this Church citie to liue in the other in respect of their outward estate and in hope of bettering of it though none of them did so upon the former agreement and in respect thereof that I can remember And to note it here by this occasion vvell may it be that this speach of the Elders of that Church vvas a meanes to persvvade us much to the agreement aforesaid and that vvhen it appeared hovv them selues vvere purposed not to liue vvith the other Church Pastor there but to returne and liue apart from us here that then vve did the more thinke of it vvhether it vvere lavvfull for us to consent thereunto and thereuppon shewed the reasons aforesayd for the reversing of our former agreement unto it VVhich reasons also together vvith their owne purpose of living here apart from us they should haue done vvell to haue spoken of in their vvriting and not to haue sayd onely that although in the treatie of the agreement it was testified by the Elders of that Church that unlesse it were to the apparant undoing of them and of their families they should not be dismissed agayne to dwell here yet because they would not absolutely promise to leaue this citie we would not stand to the agreement which our selues had made For they knovve both their owne purpose aforesaid and that vve shewed divers reasons vvhy vve thought it not lavvfull for us to continevv but to reverse our consent to the dismission of such as would not remayne vvith the other Church but purposed still to liue here in this citie apart from us And in deed in such cases if things should concerne our selues even vvith certaine losse and hurt to us and our families yet should vve not make our outvvard estate the ground or rule of our religion or religious actions but vve should alvvay first look and consider vvhat is lavvfull for us by the word of God to consent unto in others or to practise our selues and then in fayth to vvalk before the Lord being upright and committing our vvay unto him vvho vvill bring it to passe Psal 37.3 4 5. with Gen. 12.1 and 17.1 Note also here how in the two last particulars of the printed copie they haue this clause thrise that we would not agree to stand to the agreement unles they left this citie and haue not once any vvhere unlesse they went from one Church and Pastour to another the verie naming vvhereof is such as caryeth vvaight of reason vvith it against them and for us Moreover concerning the poynt and Article spoken of about having the counsel and help of other Churches note also that hovvever they speak much of it yet in deed they did not follow it them selues in that whiles the other Church and vve vvere treating vvriting about the matters aforesayd they stayed not till vve had done to see vvhat would be the end of our consultation as it should please the Lord to dispose but vvhen they knevve vve had vvritten unto Leyden and vvhereabout and that yet vve had received no ansvver from them agayne they brake away from us and tooke also another course then that which was agreed upō as is aforesaid And so themselues herein observed not that in deed which they speake in vvord about having the counsel help one of another in all needfull affaires of the Church c. And be it that eyther vve or the of Leyden from whō vve heard not in this tyme should be vvanting or fayling in any thing hereabout as vvho in such difficulties and troubles are not subject to be Yet what will they alledge for vvarrant of their separation from us vvhich they haue made Themselues knovve that everie vvant or fayling in Churches or actions vvill not beare out such divisions Good vvarrant it had need be that should uphold such disbounding and separating of themselues as they haue runne into If they alledge the matters that are mentioned in the foresayd letters vvhich they sent into England and in the other vvriting of theirs vvhich is printed for them you see the aunsvver novv given thereunto and let them remember also that hovvsoeuer they speake of other matters yet they made their division onely for the question about Government and the understanding of Mat. 18.17 vvhereabout we differed and could not agree And if then in the matter it self for vvhich they left communion with us they be found thēselues to be in notable errour what vvarrant may it be that they can alledge herein which will not returne upon their owne heads in the end as that Scripture doth vvhich they alledge for and at their dividing of themselues from us Rom. 16 17. As for the long disputing of these matters vvhereof they speak that also maketh the more against them because that although such care and continuall paynes vvas taken for them and vvith them yet it prevayled nothing at all with them neyther And vvhere they say no waie of peace could by us be found to continew together in the truth holynes they should turne their eyes upon themselues upon their errours and upon their stubberne contentious and unruly vvalking besides that they stayed not to see vvhat issue it vvould please God to bring of the matters in hand betvveē the other Church and us and refused also to trie if by writing among our selues vve could haue come to better accord in our differences then vve could by speach and word of mouth VVhich although it be a meanes seldome used vvhen parties are
present together and carefully to be regarded vvhen and hovv it is so used yet I suppose novv that they haue better bethought themselues they vvill acknovvledge it had ben better to haue admitted of any lavvfull meanes they could rather then to haue divided themselues as they did and to haue brought so great reproach many evils upon themselues and others as they haue done Or if they vvill not so acknovvledge theÌ„selues yet I doubt not but others vvill for them For that vvhich they speak of the lamentable dissipation of the Church and members beginning to growe if they had named any particulars thereabout they might accordingly haue ben spoken of VVhich seeing they haue not done I vvill leaue to the consideration of themselues others whether their dealing departing froÌ„ us might not onely haue begunne but even haue caused to growe and goe forward a most lamentable dissipation of this Church the members thereof had not God disappointed them and in mercie susteyned and kept us together vvhen they made their division coÌ„mitted so great offence in this Church Rom. 16.17 contrarie to the doctrine vvhich vve haue learned of the Prophets and Apostles vvhich vve also shevved unto theÌ„ many times afore they parted from us and vvhich novv that they haue left us must ende all the question and controversie that is betvveen us And here it is to be remembred that alvvayes and in all our vvritings and occasions vve still professe to haue the vvord of God alone for the light of our feet and direction of our vvayes in all things VVhich vve should therefore be the more carefull to follovv as it pleaseth God of his goodnes to manifest his vvill unto us more more And likevvise about these matters and in the last letter aforesayd vve limited our dealing and the reasons alledged with the same caution still of follovving that which we should among our selues or by others best discerne to be according to the wil of God therein VVhich though it had not ben expressed should alvvay be understood But being purposely and so often mentioned from time to time about these things it should the more be remembred regarded of us all that by it vve may examine determine all the matters betweeÌ„ us For neyther may vve reteyne any thing in the Church nor yeeld to any agreement vvith others that is not warrantable by the vvord of God neyther should they urge the continuance of any thing among us nor follow themselues any course in their practise that cannot by it be approved but vve should still grovve in knovvledge obedience of the vvill of God leaving that vvhich is evill and following that vvhich is good in all things Moses when he was informed by Iethro that the course of government vvhich he took in judging the people and hearing their causes so as he did vvas not good but vvearysome both to him and the people and had another vvay shewed unto him to be received vvith the approbation of God he vvillingly hearkened unto it and chaunged his former course the Lord also approving the same Exod. 18 13-26 VVhen David in a godly desire vvas carefull to bring the Arke of God from Kirjaâ—h-jearim to Ierusalem he put it in a nevve cart and beganne to carry it vvith singing and playing on instruments and great solemnity thinking that he had done vvell and right therein but the Lord made a breach upon them by the death of Vzza VVhereupon David stayed the further removing of it a vvhile and perceiving that it was because they did it not in the due order thereof he then aftervvard took another course appoynting the Levites to beare it whom the Lord had chosen to cary the Arke of the Lord and minister unto him 1 Chron. 13. and 15 2-13 c. Novv vvhat breaches contentions and continuall troubles had ben at that time in this Church among us they are not ignorant of besides the exceeding great and heavie one which about the same time befell that other Congregation of our countrymen here who about the questioÌ„ of the Churches government pleaded also against the Eldership for their popular course vvith some of the verie same arguments and other like as these haue done and runne into sundrie Anabaptisticall opinions and courses not unknovven unto them And the brethren of Leyden in their letter here before make mention of our dayly dissipations vvhich then vve had VVhich things I note here by this occasion that it may the better appeare both what great cause vve had novv to look hereunto and that these things also befell us vvhiles vve held that course of governement pleaded for by these men and afore they made this schismaticall departing from us as novv they did because vve vvould not still continue and hold on the same course as before Besides these examples of Moses and David I could also alledge the Apostles vvho upon experience of evils that came by having younger vvidovves in the service of the Church took aftervvard another course and appoynted that none should be taken into that number under threescore yeere old c. 1 Tim. 5 9-15 And for chaunging of things purposed and determined vvhen there is just cause vve haue likevvise the example of David agayne vvho vvhen he had purposed and solemnely vovved the death of Nabal and all his familie yet afterward upon the persvvasion and reasons used by Abigail changed his purpose and blessed her and the Lord for her counsel persvvasion given unto him 1 Sam. 25 21-35 And of the Prophet Nathan vvho having both consented to Davids purpose of buylding an house to the Lord and encouraged him thereunto yet vvhen as the same night the Lord shewed him that he did not require it of David neyther vvould haue him to doe it he thereupon vvent and shevved it to David vvho also rested therein with praise and thanks unto God 1 Chron. 17. chap. And these things are vvritten for our learning vvhich I doe the rather note here considering the persons matters spoken of The persons being Moses David Nathan Paul some Prophets some Apostles The matters being touching the government of the people the vvorship of God the service of the Church and helping one of another c. Yet such persons in such matters altered their courses and purposes and vvere readie and vvilling so to doe when eyther by the counsel of others or by their own experience or by the vvord or work of God they perceived any errour to be committed or some other evil to ensue in the courses taken or purposes intended by them They knevve and vvere carefull as all should that in all things vvhether concerning the vvorship of God or governement of the Church or other duties and actions that onely should be received and reteyned vvhich is approved of God and whatsoever is evill or unvvarrantable by his vvord though formerly had and observed that it should be corrected and amended According to vvhich rule
the truth of God or his imperfectiō the perfection of God Farre be it off yea let God be true everie man a lyer sayth the Apostle in the same place VVe vvill make the matter playne by an example and similitude out of the vvords of Ieremie chap. 3. A vvife being filthie vvith adulteries if her husband vvill pardon her and consent to receiue her and to dvvell vvith her she abideth still the vvife of her husband not by her ovvne deede doone for she hath broken wedlock vvhat in her vvas but by the benefit or goodnes of her husband So a Church overflovving not onely vvith lighter infirmities but also vvith heavie adulteries on her part in deed should cease to be a vvife but she ceaseth not on her husbands part For touching the election as the Apostle sayth Rom. 11.28 she is beloved for the fathers sakes speaking of the church of the Iewes It is a church so long as God calling her proclaymeth that vvhich is in Ier. 3.13 Onely acknowledge thine iniquitie that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God and hast scattered thy waies to the straungers under everie green tree and ye haue not obeyed my voyce sayth the Lord. Turne ô backslyding people sayth the Lord for I am maryed unto you I will take you c. It is so long a church as God protesting calleth upon it departing from him and being rebellious as it is in Esa 50 1. Where is the bil of your mothers divercement wherewith I put her away or who is there of my creditours to whom I sould you c. The church then at length ceaseth to be a church vvhen God ceaseth to call it back taketh avvay the evidence of that holie marriage that is the holie Scripture out of the hand of the adulteres and her that is stubburne testifying that the matrimonie is dissolved on his part and so receiveth the covenant of grace unto himself It is not for any man to deny that to be a church which God calleth a church Neyther is it for any man to call that a church vvhich God having giuen the bil of divorce and taken avvay the draught of the mariage contract denyeth so to be And after this maner doe vve esteeme of the Church in vvhich the papacie is God calleth her vvith his calling by his spirit and vvord and the publike records of that holie mariage vvhich vve call the holie Scripture and the ministerie and things and holy actions vvhich before vve haue briefly reckoned up These things doe remayne to that church most manifestly on Gods behalf But in that on the behalf of men all these things and holie actions together vvith the verie persons themselues abound and overflovve vvith most grievous deadly corruptions that is the sinne of men not the fault of God vvhose grace truth is perfected in infirmitie On Gods part she is yet called Hammi my people and Ruchama finding mercie which most truly on her part might be called Lo hammi not my people and Lo ruchama not obteyning mercie as vve read in Hosea the Prophet But vve rely upon the mercie of God and according to his grace revealed vve speake our minde or vve giue our sentence concerning a church erring and going astray But this Church hath everie thing in it corrupt I confesse it But in that it hath all the divine things in the Scritures it is of God in that it hath them all corrupt that is of it self in that it hath all the divine things it is a church in that it hath the same all corrupt it is a corrupt church The church is not taken avvay by corruption unles it be totall as they speak vvhich they call destruction A corruption that is in part doth not take avvay a Church but vveaken it The Church of Rome hath all things corrupt but not altogether this is not a destruction but is to be called a corruption of it in part For to prosecute these heads particularly vvhich vvee haue briefly noted in the consideration of the Church God by the alone presence of himself calling doth lay the foundation of the Church in Christ the head thereof The church of Rome addeth another foundation to this foundation and to this head another nevv head vvhereupon it is called papall or popish vvherein it may likevvise rest The calling is to God alone in the church of Rome there is calling to others vvith God and the calling upon them Here is calling by the spirit and Scripture alone vvhence it receiveth the ministerie delivereth nothing more thē that vvhich it hath received from the Lord there it receiveth a ministerie from the spirit of Christ of the Pope from the Scripture and the ragged traditions of men here finally the persons things and actions are caried according to the doctrine of the Spirit the Scripture onely there all things are taken and exercised out of the Popes changeable shoppe and at his beck as they say they stand and fall So all the marks on Gods behalf are in it but for it self on it ovvne part as they say there is no marke intire no marke that is not corrupt by the papall poysonfull sorcerie and the order of all things most miserably perverted For vvhich cause in Lyons in France a certayne Frier did merrily preach to the people vvhen he sayd the Hugonots for so they are called in France did consent vvith the church of Rome in all their articles of fayth but there was one shrevvd vvord the vvord Onely at the crack vvhereof vvarre vvas inkindled for they beleeue onely vvhat the rule of fayth hath out of the holie Scriptures but the church of Rome requireth more unto fayth then is eyther conteyned in the rule of fayth or in the holie Scriptures because such is the authoritie of the Church These things being vvell understood all men vvill easely perceiue hovv that church in respect of God or on Gods part is yet a church but of it self is most corrupt very nere to destruction But here doe arise tvvo doubts difficulties by vvhich the mindes of many are troubled The first doubt is vvhat vve are to judge of the members of that church The latter vvhat the dutie of them is vvho are in that church and see the great corruptions thereof To the first question we ansvver on this manner A threefold judgment had neede meet together in this cause the first of truth the second of charitie the third of prudence or vvisdome The judgment of truth is of the common condition of the church by vvhich vve judge frō the calling of God that as yet she is a church The judgement of charitie is of the severall mēbers of the church by vvhich we presume they be members of the church whilst they are called vvith the calling of God and are in this way as David calleth it Psal 2. The judgement of prudence or vvisdome is that by vvhich vve discerne and distinguish persons things
and actions divine from humane good ones from evill true ones from false and the degrees of these also amongst themselues For as of things actions so also of persons some are corrupting through ignorance infirmitie or malice vvholly or in part others are corrupted euen in the simplicitie of their hearts as the Scripture speaketh and of these there are a great number of vvhom it vvere ungodly to esteeme that they vvere not of the church of God Of such as doe corrupt we must take heed Mat. 7. of the corrupted vvho yet are still corrupted vve must haue compassion But the Church verely is not to be judged of the maner of either of these for Christ saith not ye shall not knovve the Church but by their fruits of doctrine and life ye shall knowe them Mat. 7.20 And vvithout doubt they doe very unvvisely who judge of the truth of a church by the particular life or doctrine of any men vvho ever they be especially of private men for the calling of God maketh the church not the assenting ansvver of the men that are in it as on the other side the church ceaseth not to be a church for the refusal or denial of men vvheresoever the calling of God is Novv let us come to the second demaund VVhat is the dutie of those vvilt thou say that are in the Popish Church and see the grievous corruptions of it Their dutie is such as of those children vvhich dvvell together vvith their adulterous mother for God used this similitude in Esaie and Ieremie as vve haue seene before A vvise sonne vvill even from his heart abhorre the sinne of his mother he vvill vvith speach and signe call back his mother from evil and he vvill absteyne himself from it and in all things he vvill cleaue to his father he vvill stand to his judgement he vvill obey his vvil and vvhile he can by reason of his mother he vvill cleaue unto her next after his father but vvhiles by reason of her he can not doe it vvith good conscience for the spirituall and bodily injurie of her Closet or Inner roome he vvill betake himself into the chamber of his father vvhere also the church is the mother of us all Gal. 4.26 For this is not a good consequent if one depart from this or that church therefore he doth altogether departe from the church He but trifles vvho doth so from a particular conclude universally A part of the flesh if it be divided or cut asunder from another part by a vvound received is not straight vvay to be thought to be separate or cut off from the vvhole bodie for it is cutte asunder and the mouth of the vvound openeth but neyther part is therfore disjoyned from the bodie A godly sonne therefore ought to cleaue to his father and mother joyntly so long as vvith good conscience he can but because he cānot vvith sound fayth and conscience haue fellovvship with the unfrutefull vvorks of darkenes Eph. 5 11. he rather leaving his mother cleaveth to God his father our Lord Iesus Christ then that he vvill defile himself vvith those foule deedes of his mother And this did our auncestors religiously vvhom the popish tyrannie for some ages hath exercised The godly vvhich vvere at Rome and other vvhere in the church vvhich they call the Romane church abusiuely first learned to abhorre even from their soule the sinnes of their mother vvhen once they began to haue right understanding by vvords and signes they modestly called her back from her naughtie deeds vvhiles she vvould beare them they carefully absteyned themselues from all communication of evill yet in all things cleaving to their father from vvhom in vvhom by vvhom for whom are all things standing to his judgment and obeying his vvill finally they did so long cleaue to their mother next after their father vvhilst by her they could so doe vvith intire fayth and conscience and their ovvne salvation But vvhen they could not longer vvith good fayth and conscience so doe by reason of the violent tyrannie and the spirituall corporall injurie of their furious mother then being ashamed with her shamefulnes resting silent they betooke themselues into their fathers bosome and his inner roome albeit that she pursued them outragiously least they being ashamed of her should be sayd to shame her as strumpets are usually vvoont to doe For which causes I doe humbly beseech God the Father of our Lord Iesus that he would both by his saving calling informe direct and care for his church and vvhatsoever belongeth to his church that he would also teach everie one that is in it his truth and the truth of his church and that he vvould so vvorke as they vvisely absteyning from all evils especially from those vvhich the sonne of perdition and author of the apostasie hath brought in and taking heed of the spirit of lyes the efficacie of his errour they may religiously cleaue unto the Father and his good things in everie of them and to their mother next after the father or so farre as she accordeth vvith the Father that increasing in his truth pietie fayth loue they may bestovve and employe all their studies to the edification of the church the salvation of all and the glorie of that our heavenly Father c. God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ by that eternall spirit of his eternall truth bring to passe that the wiles of Sathan being driven avvay vve may all grovve dayly in Christ in the church and in the truth of Christ and the Church and that vve may more and more confirme one another in loue unfayned to his glorie and the common salvation of us all Amen HItherto Mr. Iunius VVith whom agreeth Amandus Polanus noting some errours of Bellarmines about Antichrist in his Cōmentarie upon Ezech. 39. at the ende thereof pag. 733. VVhere he sayth thus The Messias of the Iewes is not Antichrist but a false Christ whereas the great Antichrist of whom the Scriptures foretell shall professe himself to be a Christian and under the name of Christ fight against Christ because he must sitte in the Temple of God 2 Thes 2.4 in the Temple I say not Iewish or at Ierusalem but Christian that is in the Christian Church as Chrysostome teacheth and Theophylact Ambrose Hilarius Hierome Theodoret Oecumenius Augustine and Thomas Aquinas also See the testimonies sayth he in our Catholick Symphonie chap. 23. Thes 3. And Bartholomeus Keckermannus speaking in a treatise of his of the properties of the church inferreth thus thereupon and sayth Now if we examine the Popish church according to these proprieties it will appeare that it is not a pure Church but verie corrupt like as a rotten apple is in deed an apple but corrupt as a man corrupted with the plague is a man but not a sound man Keckerman Praeparat ad sacram synaxin pag. 83. And divers other the like sayings out of these and other
any vvoman young nor old maryed vvife vvidowe nor mayde saue onely my lavvfull vviues having had two and not them neyther till I vvas lavvfully maryed to them nor to any other had I ever thought or word in that respect and for the truth hereof I take the Lord to vvitnes vvho onely knovveth the heart and will bring the waie of the wicked upon his head and justifie the righteous to giue him according to his righteousnes Let these men novv and all others vvho haue eyther vvritten or spoken herein most unjustly knovve they shall giue account for the same unlesse God giue them repentance vvhich I desire may be giuen to my greatest adversaries Moreover whereas here they insinuate and in other places of their book haue spoken more playnly of the discovering of my nakednes and the maydes seeing it I testifie it is more then I can say for certayne vvhether she did see me or no but considering how our houses stood vvith the vvindowes doores one over against the other knowing in what case my self sometime by occasion was in my ovvne house it mought be she did so see me it mought be othervvise yet for any word or deed that passed from me to her I could were it not for the circumstances aforesayd directly affirme she never so saw me But notwithstanding all this I haue said I doe yet freely confesse that what was wanting in me to haue had more heed care unto my self for the avoyding of her or any other so to haue seene me was my great transgression praying God to forgiue me it as all other my sinnes vvhatsoever There were brought sixteene articles against him to proue the tenour course of his life to be partiall Artic. 6. wherof two were proved acknowledged by him and the residue of sixteene were confessed in generall c. There were fifteene persons that factiously had their meetings sundrie times Answer to cousult and plot against me determining vvith and among themselues to haue dismist me froÌ„ my office Here was a beginning to tread the path-vvaie unto popular governmeÌ„t the verie baine to all good order in church and comon vveale and for the ground of their proceeding against me they framed fourteen not sixteene as these men untruly say matters against me some of seven yeeres old others of lesse time some of them eyther ended in the church or past by of the church and others of them private matters never dealt in by any â—â—le which cariâ—â—d and dealing of heirs being observed and for the further finding out of their evil herein it vvas demaunded of them vvho vvere the authors of these their meetings and hovv often and vvhere they met vvhich they refusings to shevve vvere therefore and for these their meetings evil cariage in these matters rebuked by the church they vvilled that had any thing against me to deale vvith me by order rule vvhich yet they never did One of theÌ„ there vvas vvho since is departed this life that came unto me acknovvledged his fault affirming that himself had nothing against me but was chawen by the rest onely to giue his consent to their proceedings vvhich he the more willingly yeelded unto having as he manifested a spleene against me vvhich he said some of these men knovving did by urging the same worke upoÌ„ him to doe that he did and he said moreover that if a scholar had reproved him as I did vvhich vvas of unsound doctrine of somevvhat he spake in publike he could vvell haue borne it but I that vvas none to reproue him that vvas one this made him to stomake me vvhich he confessed vvas evill in him and so sayd he as now he playnely savv vvas the dealing of those men tovvards me vvhich he perceived to be rather of malice then any just cause they had against me Further whoÌ„ these men vvere rebuked willed to deale vvith me as is aforesaid I prayed theÌ„ to give me a copie of the things they had framed against me promising that vvhen I had considered of them if I savve any thing in vvhich I had offended I vvould freely of my self acknovvledge the same but this vvhich vvas so reasonable a request I could never get of them vvhich playnly shevves both the evill dealing of the refusers thus to doe the falsehood of these men who haue printed that two of the matters brought against me were proved acknowledged by me Pag. 15 16. the rest in generall maner I coÌ„fessed That vvhich I confessed vvas onely this here follovving There vvas one particular about Iudith â—â—â—â—der vvhich they pressed as hard against me as their hatred was tovvards me vvhich vvas to the uttermost of their power I as vvell as I could stood for my ovvne defence thus much time and many vvords being spent one of the brethren spake to this effect A.P. viz. that a maÌ„ mought be sayd to be partiall eyther by being nor able to judge or discerne aright the cause he handleth so erre in the sentence he giveth Or being well able to judge of a matter yet through negligence not using that care diligence to search into it as he ought the matter is shut up with that unequall judgment vvhich othervvise vvould not so haue ben To vvhich I ansvvered to this effect That if the vvord partiall for to get this vvord from me was now all their strife would in any of those respects satisfy theÌ„ I would not staÌ„d to justifie my self but that in such regard I mought be partiall Hereupon my accusers vvere quiet and rested in this my acknovvledgment and no other nor othervvise were any of their fourteen articles eyther proved by theÌ„ or confessed by me There vvas also an exliortation giuen to my self by the Pastor that I should take heed to the office which I had received in the Lord to fulfill it c. And this is the verie suÌ„me effect of the handling of these matters and the end and issue whereunto they were brought by which maner of ending them my adversaries had more favour then they were worthy my self susteyn greater reproach then in these things I haue deserved but it is part of my manifold crosses wherwith the Lord hath exercised me in this vvorld and I will beare it And thus having made my answer to this sixt article in their book objected I leaue to indifferent judges to weigh how falsely enviously these four men haue dealt with me also herein Also Article 7. at the same time it was proved that he tooke part with Iudith Holder in knowen evill c. 〈◊〉 this article Answer being like the former that is false and malicious proveth these men to partake vvith Sathan by him to be set on worke to lye sclander caluÌ„niate according to his and their owne evill dispositions For counseling Marie May to lye with her husband before they were maryed Artic. 8. c.
These turbulent outragious persons haue takeÌ„ counsel of Machivel Ansvv to disgrace men by clamours reproaching knovving that such things being once cast upon men though never so false and by never so vile creatures yet vvill ever after leaue some blot stayne behinde them therfore haue they also in this their eight last article besprinckled me with the poyson of asps under their tongues by falsely slaundering me herein as the Lord knoweth And these unconscionable men cannot be ignorant hovv the vvoman her self hath in our publike congregation affirmed I never gaue her that counsel besides Clement Saunders if not all the rest of them doth knowe for certaine that another of the Elders with my self brought her to the Church for her transgressing in that action And now that these my deadly adversaries haue shewed their malice against me to the full as their detestable and abhominable book so esteemed spoken of by many doth proclame unto the world let them not thinke but that themselues are such vvhose sinnes are with before the Lord the alseeing God and most just judge to whom for all their wicked speakings I leaue them eyther for mercie or for judgement according to his good wil pleasure And touching all everie one of the particulars both litle and great vvith their long lothsome coÌ„parison between me another vvherewith they haue reproached me in their book they are eyther mere lyes or falsely related or vvickedly perverted not one of them otherwise saue onely those my sinnes which I haue in this my answer coÌ„fessed VVhich sinnes of mine as I knovve am assured the Lord hath forgiven so doe I humbly beseech all those to whose eares the offence of my sinnes past are come that they also vvould forgiue me as themselues doe expect in fayth to be pardoned of God for all their sinnes and trespasses Blessed is the man that judgeth wisely of the poor the Lord shall deliver them in the time of trouble c. Psal 41.1 c. Daniel Studley THus Christian Reader I haue shewed thee M. Studleys answer draweÌ„ by himself By vvhich thou mayest perceiue the ungodly dealing of these men against him As for others among us vvhom they haue also abused in like sort see the Inquirie and Answer of Thomas Whites book Pag. 28.29.30.36 37.39.40.43.44.45 46 50.51.61 c. vvho published divers of the same things and other the like as are here novv printed againe And vvhat should I doe then repeating the same like answers to the same or like objections seing also Thomas VVhite vvas so plainly convinced of sclander bad dealing therein as he could never after open his mouth to reply or disproue the answer given Yet these men vvould make the vvorld beleeue that he had sufficiently answered the matter by his atturney brought proof of the things by witnesses depositions before the Magistrates for vvhich himself vvas never able to stand reply againe after the ansvver aforesaid vvas published And therefore whereas they insert here pag. 26. 27. certayne things extracted out of Whites book Lawnes discoverie c. thou art to knovve that they are the verie things for vvhich some of us so abused did bring him before the Magistrates for justice by vvhom how he was rebuked is as vvell knovven to us as it is unto all that he was left unpunished unprosequâ—â—ed othervvise then he deserved pag. 28. And vvhere they bring out a court roule as they say that the judges gaue default for not appearing against Francis Iohnson and Henrie Ainsworth The opposant was Tho. White and in regard thereof discharged the Opposant of the Arrest done on his person condemning the Arresters in costs and charges of the suit c. I am certainly informed by the parties themselues yet living here namely M. Iohnson and M. Ainsworth that they never arrested Th. White so neyther vvere nor could be condeÌ„ned in costs charges of the suit And that such others of us as did indeed arrest bring him for justice before the Magistrates as is aforesaid did never hear of being condemned in costs charges afore they sawe it in this printed book By vvhich such as are vvise vvill obserue the dealing cariage of those things VVhich vve leane unto God omitting to speak vvhat vve could further of these other matters in this book of theirs Thus gentle Reader I haue giuen thee this advertisement concerning the book aforesaid vvhich my self others of us thought good at this time to be done VVhich we vvould not haue thee so take it as if we would still follovv such persons vvith ansvver after ansvver as novv vve haue done the second time VVe must remember both those Proverbs of Salomon vvhich he hath Prov. 26.4.5 one for answering and an other for not answering as I noted here before in the beginning Neyther let any that loue the truth be moved or discouraged vvith the contumelies oppositions or other persecutions that vve or other the people of God are still subject unto If such reproachfull courses should haue ben taken against Iacobs familie against the people of Israel against the Churches of Corinth Galatia others heretofore or at this daye vvhat volumes invectines might be vvritten and spread over the vvorld from age to age And if sinnes and sinners of all sorts should not fall out and be found in the Church vvhy appointed God such lavves and punishments for sinners in Israel vvhy hath he given censures to his church still to be had and continued therein from time to time Finally if vvhen men haue sinned neither the repentance of the penitent nor the censures upon the impenitent shall be regarded or rested in but that both the persons and churches that are carefull so to vvalk shall be thus abused besides all the lyes sclanders annexed vvith all vvhat may vve thinke but that vve haue to deale with beasts rather then men or vvith Chams Doegs Schemeis Rabshakees Sanballats and the like And vvhat can such look for if they repent not but that as Peter sayd they shall utterly perish in their ovvne corruption and as David sayd that God vvill take pluck them out of the Tabernacle and roote them out of the land of the living Selah 2 Pet. 2 12. Psal 52.5 The Lord our God the God of glorie father of mercie work all our things to his praise furtherance of his truth make us partakers of his grace mercie in Christ turne al the enmitie and cursing of men into a favour and blessing upon us increase in us the knovvledge obedience of his vvill in all godlines strengthen us in for his truth unto the end after vve haue suffered here a vvhile bring us to his heavenly rest kingdome for ever Amen 1 Tim. 4.10 For this cause vve both labour suffer reproach because vve trust in the living God vvho is the Saviour of all men specially of those that be leeue Iam. 1.12 Blessed is the man that indureth tentation for vvhen he is tryed he shall receiue the crovvne of life which the Lord hath promised to them that loue him ERRATA Pag. 17. l. 11. read Othervvhere l. 24. in all other places of the book where there is speach of the printed copie of the Articles or Objections about the division understand or put in the margent Lavvnes discoverie of schisme pag. 79. c. Pag. 21. l. 1. themselues Pag. 28. l. 19. more members Pag. 30. l. 20. Mat. 21.42 and lin 21. Eph. 2.12 P. 36. l. 28. 21.19.20 22 15-19 25.7 8 9. Ios 20. P. 37. l. 16. Psa 82.1 Deut. 19. P. 44. l. 7. questions P. 59. l. 17. 14.1 and in the margent Rom. 1.8 P. 64. l. 10.33.44 and l. 17.14.1 l. 22. 1 Pet. 3.18 P. 65. l. 3. Ezec. 29 3. Rev. 13.1 2. P. 76. l. 3. coÌ„ceived P. 94. l. 26. by the Church whereupon afterward they divided themselues from us P. 102. l. 14. contingent
because of it vve baptise them not againe vvhen at the same tyme vve baptise others that vvere never baptized before And also that the leaving repenting of all the corruptions and apostasie among thē vvill not satisfy the Anabaptists unles vve leave also the baptisme it self and hold vvith them that there is not so much as one post or threshold of Gods remayning in the apostate Church as some also of these that thus except against us have not stuck to affirme They that are vvise and unpartiall vvill carefully consider and regard these things though these men them selves cannot yet be brought so to doe And novv I vvil proceed to the next objection For the fift vvith which the fourth and eight in the printed copie doe agree it vvas in deed sayd that the baptisme of the Church of Rome is true baptisme And so it is as the circumcision in Israels apostasie vvas true circumcision and not to be repeated agayne And if it be not a true baptisme it is a false baptisme And false baptisme is not Gods baptisme nor Gods ordinance For God is the author of truth not of falshood Moreover a true baptisme are vve bound to have when vve have the meanes to attayne it Els the neglect thereof is sinne VVherefore they that hold it not to be true baptisme must become Anabaptists and be rebaptized VVhich thing let them vvell look unto And seeing in the printed copie they saye they doe still denye it to be true baptisme I vvill here therefore insist upon it somevvhat more And first it must be remembred that vvhen I sayd the Baptisme of the Church of Rome is true baptisme they did not onely deny it so to be vvhich alone they speak of here but affirmed it also to be an Idol vvhereof here they speak not at all Note also that our speach vvas and is of the outvvard baptisme in the Church not of the invvard baptisme of the holy Ghost which is may be eyther vvith or vvithout the outvvard baptisme wherof none vvill offer to say that it is not true baptisme or that it is an Idol as vvas sayd of the other Novv therefore upon their opinions and assertions I reason further thus If the Baptisme had in the Church of Rome be not true baptisme then it is not the Lords baptisme ordeyned by him in his Church And if it be not that baptisme of the Lords thē they which have no other but it should not in that estate eate the Lords supper but should get the Lords baptisme afore they come to the Lords table For as in Israel none might eat of the Lords passeover that had not the Lords circumcision so novv may none eat the Lords supper that have not the Lords baptisme Exod. 12 48. Act. 2 41 42. 1 Cor. 10 1-4 with Act. 18.8 and 1 Cor. 11.26 And so by this doctrine opinion of theirs as often as they come to the Lords table in that estate they pollute and prophane it and eate and drinke judgment to themselves and therefore had need betymes to look unto it and to examine and judge themselves hereabout least they be judged of the Lord. 1 Cor. 11.28 Agayne there is but one baptisme as there is but one bodie one spirit one hope of our calling one fayth one God and Father of all c. Ephes 4.4.5.6 1 Cor. 12.13 Novv the baptisme had in the Church of Rome eyther is that one baptisme or is not it If it be that one then it is true baptisme vvithout all question If it be not then they which have no other but it have not that one baptisme spokē of by the Apostle in the Scriptures aforesaid and therefore must get it not onely afore they may come to the Lords table as is aforesaid but also that they may have the comfort of this one baptisme the true outward seale of Gods covenant to confirme unto them that they are baptized into that one bodie partakers of that one spirit heyres of that one hope of eternall life under that one Lord in that one fayth the children of that one God and father of all vvhich is above all and through all and in us all Othervvise so long as they neglect or deprive themselves thereof it vvill follovv upon them by their ovvne opinion and assertion vvhich they say they doe still hold that they stand in great sinne neglecting or contemning to have the true baptisme instituted by the Lord that they deprive themselves of great comfort and confirmation on of their fayth about the particulars aforesayd touching the bodie and spirite of the Lord the fayth and hope of the children of God even our Father in Iesus Christ Furthermore the baptisme had in apostate Churches eyther is a seale of the covenant of God or not If it be a seale of the Lords covenant then sure it is true baptisme If it be not then see vvhat great things vvill follovv thereupon As first that they vvhich have no other baptisme but it have not the outvvard baptisme that sealeth unto them the covenant of God and therefore must vvith the Anabaptists gette another that they may be assured they have the seale of Gods covenant of grace and salvation Secōdly that there neyther have ben nor shall be in Babylon any of Gods people under his covenant which is contrarie to that vvhich is vvritten Revel 18 4. vvhere the Lord shevveth that he hath his people vvhō by the words of his covenant he calleth thence saying Come out of her my people c. And if these men vvill say that themselves are not of such people there spoken unto then let them tell us vvhen and hovv they came under the covenant of God and let them also shevv it vvithout stablishing their owne righteousnes of vvorks thereby Thirdly that the baptisme novv had in apostate Churches is not ansvverable to the circumcisiō had in the apostasie of Israel For that circumcision though had in apostasie vvas true circumcision a seale of the Lords covenant to his people and therefore needed not to be renounced or repeated But the baptisme novv had in the apostasie of the Church of Rome they say is not true baptisme and so not a seale of the Lords covenant to his people novv as the other vvas then therefore must be renounced and another that is true obteyned And thus agayne in this they make themselves would make us straugers frō the policie of Israel as in the poynt of government also vvas observed before Neyther will it novv help them to alledge those Scriptures or the like as vve have produced heretofore against the Anabaptists to approve the reteyning of our baptisme had in apostasie vvithout renunciation or repetitiō thereof as namely 2 Chron. 30. chap compared with Exod. 12 48 49. Gen. 17 10-13 Lev. 26 14-44.45 46. Deut. 4 25-31.2 King 9 6. and 13 23. Psal 78 9-38 and 89 30-34 Ezech. 16 44-63 and 43 7-9.2 Thes 2 3-8 Rom. 11