Church-gouernement that is thus to be followed that which they did ordinarily vnchangeably is ordinarily vnchangeably to be done that which they did vpon circumstances when those circumstances fall out as appeareth by these places 1. cor 4. 17. Which shall put you in remēbrance of my wayes in Christ as I teach euery where in euery Church And 1. Cor. 11. 2. I praise you brethren that you remember me in all thinges hold fast the ordināces as I deliuered thē vnto you And Phi. 4. 9 Which you haue learned receiued heard seene in me those things do the God of peace be with you 2. Tim. 3. 10. But thou hast step by step attained vnto or fully known my doctrine course purpose faith long-suffering loue patience c. Tit. 1. 5. Appoint Elders as I haue set thee an order 1. Tim. 3. 17. These thinges haue I written that thou maist know how to behaue thy selfe in the howse of God Now that these were the vnch hangeable waies of the Apostles in elections is cleare by the examples which haue been touched before For in the 1. of the Actes the Apostles by Peter directing the action in the sixt by him or some other for they could not al direct speak at once what soeuer were the variable circumstaunces they kept this inuiolable that they people woulde giue their consent in the election And in the 14 chap. such circumstaunces ceasing they obserued this thing inuiolable Katapolin Church by Church Secondly If it were not ynough for a temporary charge to haue praise in the Gospell thorowe all the Churches but as the Apostle sayth such a one was also chosen by the consent of the Churches to be a fellow with him-selfe in carying the liberality of the Churches then much lesse can it be ynough in a perpetuall charge of such waight vnto the Church to depend vppon the iudgement of one or many without the consent of the Church but y e first is true 2. cor 8. 19. therefore the second Thirdly if in euerye matter of great waight and importaunce belonging to the whole body of the Church whether seuerally in one particuler congregation or ioyntly in many the consent of the people by the whole course of Church-gouernment in the obseruation of the Apostles was requyred then the same is to be kept in this action which concerneth the particuler Church and common assemblye as much as anye other Now that the peoples cōsent was so requyred is euident by this induction following So Peter yeeldeth an account to them of the circumcision of his going into the Gentiles and satisfieth them before the Church Acts. 11. 2. 18. The Church sent foorth Barnabas to Antiochia ver 22. The churches of Antiochia Actes 15. sent Paule and Barnabas to Hierusalem about the controuersie of Circumcision And when they came to Hierusalem they were receiued by the Church and of the Apostles and Elders vers 4. And after the Apostles and Elders had come togeather to looke to that matter and had discussed the same then it seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church to sende chosen men of their owne companye to Antiochia with Paule and Barnabas then they wright the decree vnto the churches after this maner The Apostles Elders and the brethren So in excommunication their consent is required 1. Cor 5. 4. 7. 12. So in absolution the Church doth forgiue y e offense ratify their loue towards him who hath offended 2. Cor. 2. 7. 8. So in calling vppon the Minister to execute his charge the Apostle woulde not him selfe but willeth the Churrh to say to Archippus Take heede to thy ministery which thou hast receiued in the Lorde that thou fulfill it Colos 4. 17. Lastly seeing in the iudgement of all interpreters according to the trueth the Apostle reckoning vp three manner of callings the first of man that is mās ordinaunce the seconde by man that is from Gods ordinaunce by the meanes of the Church the third by Jesus Christ that is immediat without the meanes of the Church doth therby signify that the two latter only belong vnto church-elections because that in the Church none must take any honor but he which is called as was Aaron it followeth necessarily that their sole-election which by their own confession is the ordinance of man to be vnlawful and that which is by the consent of the people according to the Apostles obseruation as they themselues cannot deny to be the onelye ordinary full way of calling allowed of God This point also hath such manifest witnesse of antiquitie as before all equall Judges the cause must passe on our side For Counsels these twoo following shall witnesse not onely them-selues but by their mouthes the Decrees and censures of the Church from time to time 2. Tom concil can 8. The councell of Paris Let none be ordayned againste the will of y ◠citizens but to whom the election of the people and of the Clearkes with moste full consent haue requyred And before they say of this it is their decree that according to the Canons of the decrees it be obserued Orleans Canon 10. 11. Let it not be lawfull to get anye Bishopricke by rewardes or by other procurement but by the will of the King according to the election of the Cleargie and of the people And after besides this according as the old Canons haue decreed no Bishop maye bee giuen vnto the people againste their will Ignatius ad Philadelp It is meet that you as those which be the Church of God should choose by voyces your Bishops And the Greeke scholiast on the 14. of the Actes saith it is to bee noted that the Disciples with fasting and prayers did make election by voyces Cyprian hauing labored to prooue that the Church ought not to communicate with their Ministers which had sacrificed to Idols because they had power to choose new sayth God commaundeth the Priest to be set before the whole Synagogue that is doth ordayne and shew that briestly ordinations ought not to be made but with the conscience of the people assisting that the people beeinge present eyther the crimes of the euill shoulde be detected or the good shoulde be published and that shoulde be a iust and lawefull ordination which hath beene examined by the suffrage and iudgement of all men which afterwarde according to diuine institutions is obserued in the Actes of the Apostles c. Epist Lib. 1. Cap. 4. So Gregor Naz. in apologet Chrisost lib 3. Sacerd. So much for election the church offices follow That euery Minister of diuine seruice in the publique Congregation ought to be apt to preach COncerning this poynt the wordes of the aunswerer are these page 2. And as it seemeth such as Paule propoundeth to euery Minister as a perfect idaea which is requisite in him which is that he bee able to teache sounde doctrine to comfort to correct to instruct
seruice to euil kinges he addeth least this long treatise shoulde seeme altogeather impertinent that he could not chuse but oppose to the fanaticall spirites and traiterous allegations both of these dangerous innouators of the rebellious Papistes But alas why are we poore Ministers as he calleth vs before whom a man of meane estate wil not regard so dangerous He answereth because we would haue our soueraignes kingdome to be holden at the chiefe inferior magistrates the people or Presbyteries deuotion Oh heauen O earth O Lorde our God the searcher of the secreats of all hearts the author of the holy discipline we seek reueale we besech thee our horrible treason bring vpon vs our children for euer vtter cōfusion in this life in y ◠life to come if this wickednes be either intended thought vpon or be likely to follow vpon the discipline which we seeke or vpon our desire of the same If you O you holy fathers and ministers of God which haue writetn for defended mayntained with great danger attained vnto this may not cleare our cause by y ◠vn fained fidelitye which you haue shewed to christian Princes yet let your wisedome experience Oh you Princes and Magistrates which haue receiued it honored it tried it beare witnesse vnto the innocēcie of this cause Shal that which hath bin a friend to magistrates when they were enemies to it be enemies to Magistrats when they should be friends vnto it Shal that which D. Whitgift himself confesseth namely That such Seniors were but long ago worne out of vse For which he alleadgeth the sentence of Ambrose before alleadged shal that I say called for of that holye man become traiterous pernitious to the state Can the office of an Archbishop in the second place of the land doing al that alone and more in Church-matters then the seniours hauing with it ciuil power and authority be free from this suspition and cannot Ministers and Elders of base account in the world medling onely as the Apostles with spirituall matters that according to the word of God be void of al surmize of such vilanous practise can their counsels be accounted safe where none come but themselues whō they wil who are deuoted to their honor kingdome ecclesiasticall And shal the ministers consultations be so fit for such practises where so many Elders as he sayth lay men of all degrees may be present where the Magistrates may haue both their eyes their eares Whose decrees in al matters of greatest waight of Excōmunication Election Abdication ending of common controuersies must come vnder the conscience of all men yea whose whole acts and counsels may easily be seene by the Magistrate who may force them to a new course if they doe any thing preiudiciall to the estate The good king Iehoshaphat according to the Word of God and the example of his father Dauid ordeined besides the Priests and Leuites in all Cities the cheefe of Families for the iudgementes of the Lord and for the matters of God besides others appoynted for ciuill matters called the kings matters Now shall wee thinke that hee coulde not see into the matters of a kingdome and the safety thereof aswell as this man The Princes of Iuda at their returne when their state was subiect vnto so many dangers when their Prophets conspired against them yet vphelde the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery to threaten excommunication and seperation from Gods people to the obstinate sinners as wel they thē-selues did confiscation of goodes and ciuill punishment neither were they euer iealous ouer their estate Wherefore seeing we haue such a cloude of witnesses of these tymes and of former both vnder the law and vnder the Gospel we need not feare but their lying irōforhead in charging vs with such traiterous opinions shalbe manifest to all and shall tourne vppon their owne heades For manifestation whereof let the Magistrates consider what is written of them highly derogatorie vnto their estate and freedome which they make them beleue that they maintaine First they say the forme and maner of Church gouernment may be altered by the Magistrate then they say the externall gouernment of the Church vnder a Christian Magistrate must be according to the forme of gouernment used in the common-wealth Which is flat contrary to that that the Christian Magistrate may alter at their good pleasure Which also driueth the Queenes moste excellent maiesty eyther to part her Crowne with some other or else muste make one Archbishop not only of byshops but also ouer Archb. y ◠in the Church there maye be a Monark as wel as in the common-wealth Againe when they say y ◠Archb. is contayned vnder S. Paules Bishop they leaue it not in the Magistrates power to take away his iurisdiction how daungerous so euer it be to her estate Agayne let them consider into what a low place they bring the Magistrate into in the Church when expounding the place of the Corinthes of him they make him go after the teacher therfore much more after the Archbi Hauing therfore noted these their open contradictions most absurd opinions preiudicial indeed to her maiesties authority let vs ere we passe from this general what the forme of ecclesiastical gouernment is consider once againe of his assertion and see whether it bewray not manifest ignorance containe not cōtradiction repugnance in it selfe and be not highly derogatory to Christ his scriptures His words are these pag. 192. Now as concerning the inward gouernment of the Church of Christ by his spirite God working in his children by the Ministers of his writtē reuealed word also touching the essential poynts of the outwarde policy gouernment of the church consisting in the true teaching of the word of God in the due administration of sacraments according to christs holy institution in the aduancement furthering of vertue with the beating downe of sinne and impiety and in keeking the Church in a quiet vnity and good order there is no difference of opinion amongst vs. And a little after we affirm that no such precise exact forme of external gouerment of the Church by discipline as they depaint it out is so much as by any exāple recōmended vnto vs in scripture but much lesse commanded as a continuall platforme for euer to be followed In which assertion omitting the nakednes of it armed with no proofe out of the scripture or any good reason let vs see how it sheweth such grosse ignoraunce as is not to be lucked for in a man of his gifts for it deleareth that he can not distinguish betweene the cause instrument and meanes of a thing and the thing it selfe betweene gouernment and the essentiall partes of gouernment and the fruits of it For gouerment Ecclesiasticall that is the spirituall administration of Christ by the order and instruments of his Church which he hath ordayned is a different thing from the truth of
change of the time in the Lords supper as it is a meere circumstance of time so the alteration hath grounde in the scripture because one and the same time is not alwaies kept Act. 3. 42. Act. 20. 7. 11. c. Neither can that be saide to be according to the institution which being done vpon a particuler cause as all Diuines agree shold not be obserued wher that cause ceaseth Thus his assertions reasons being touched heere followeth a plaine declaration of the truth as to satisfie his request or chalenge Namely that the whole substance of the ordinary gouernment of the church that is to say the vnchaungable lawes of the holy things of Offices callings examinations abdications executiōs of the reason and distinction of euery one of them is prescribed of God in his holy Worde as a perpetuall Lawe vnto his Church And although euery particuler rite order which are variable according to the circumstance be not so particulerly mentioned yet are they by certaine generall rules so limitted and prescribed that no Churche can vse them at their pleasure but ought to frame thē within the boundes set vnto them of God which may appeare by these reasons following First seeing vnder the Law God by the ministery of Moses did precisely this thing for the gouernment of his Church then so that neither Dauid nor Nehemias might alter any thing but by especial reuelation from God by his Prophets it were to make God lesse carefull of his Church vnder the gospel to make the ministery of Moses more excellent then that of Christe vnlesse in like manner he had performed the same For Christe being a King hath prescribed Lawes for his gouernment and as he is a Lorde hath ordained the diuers administrations of his Church and in this respect was faithfull as Moses in all his house Againe seeing the Apostles hauing beene taught of him by the space of forty dayes the thinges which pertaine to his kingdome Act. 1. 3. that is as the Jesuites them selues are compelled to confesse the whole regiment of Christes Church did thereuppon set down such orders for the same 1. Tim. 3. 15 and giue charge that they shoulde be kept vnblameably 1. Tim. 5. 21. otherwise then which neither Timothy nor Titus might perfect that in the gouernment of the Churche which the Apostles had begun and say that they which are spiritual must acknowledge their orders in this behalfe to bee the commaundementes of our Lorde 1. Corin. 14. 37. and will their ordinaunces in this behalfe to bee kept as they deliuered them 1. Cor. 11. 2. and euen in the matter of the maintenaunce of the ministery woulde speake not according to man but according to the Law of God and the ordinance of the Lord 1. Cor. 9. 8. 14. then euery one that is spiritual must acknowledge the former position to bee true Thirdly seeing Christe hath expresly in his Word set downe sufficient ordinary Ministeries of Exhorters Teachers Elders Deacous with their proper gifts and workes of exhorting teaching diligent watching distributing for the administring of the holy things as y e word Prayer Sacraments censures and treasury and hath ordained the Eldership for y ioynt gouernment in euery particuler Congregation with Synodes for matters common to manye Churches it followeth that the former assertion is vndoubtedly true Fourthly seeing the Apostle Paule who receiued this as y ◠rest of y e Gospel by reuelation did vniformally plant y e same gouernmēt in all churches as appeareth by comparing the story of the Actes w t Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Tim. epist to Titus it is manifest they had a forme prescribed thē by Christ to follow euē as Moses did all things according to y ◠pattern shewed him in the moūt Againe seeing it is not in the power of man to alter or change these offices by addition or detraction because they cannot gyue nor take away members to and from Christes bodie but all the gyftes are from one spirite the faculties from one God the administrations from one Lorde and finally all Church Ministeries must be frō heauen and not from earth as Christ sayth the Scribes them selues confesse Then is there in the worde of God such an vnchaungeable rule of gouernment as is before declared Lastly seeing God in altering the outward face of his church vnder the Gospell diuerse from that vnder the law in regarde of y e ceremonies abolished and of things according to the riches and simplicitie of the Gospell inlarged did as well keep the substance of the Churches administration namely in ordayning for Priests Pastors for teaching Leuits or Doctors of y ◠law Teachers for rulers of y ◠Sinagog Churh-gouernors or Elders for their leuitical lokers to y ◠treasury Deacons for their presbytery the eldership As he kept the holy thinges to be administred that is for the lawe and the Prophets together with them y e writings of the new Testament for the Passeouer Circumcision Baptisme the supper of the Lorde for their giftes of God gathering for the Saintes or Church-treasury for their suspension from the Tēple-sacrifices our separation from y ◠Lords supper for their casting out of y ◠Synagogue cutting off from the people our excommunication It is euident that that which God kept for the time of the Gospell he did in perfect wisdom ordayne and prescribe and that which Christ did inrich and inlarge he woulde not haue men cut of and abolish Wherfore if they will still rowle the stone of mans power to alter and chaunge this order of God let them shewe how men can take away that which God hath set in his Church let them shew how that is not perpetual which is grounded vppon those gyftes which serue for the ordinarie necessityes of the church in al times and places yea let them shew how they can more wysely instruct the people with doctrine feede them wirh exhortation rule their soules with spirituall power chastize them with an holy rodde and prouide for their earthlye necessities then the Lorde hath done and still offereth to doe by the worde of knowledge in his Teachers by the worde of wisedome in his Pastors by the continuall watche of his Elders by the spirituall keyes of his kingdome and by his mercifull and liberall prouiding for the needie And if it be a shame to preferre mans wisedome before the wisedome of God at the least let them declare by what authoritye they will compell the Church to refuse the strong arme of God for the weake arme of fleshe and bloude To these reasons maye be added the testimonies of the Fathers as of CYPRIAN IN SERMONE DE BAPTIS CHRIST The Christian religion shall finde that out of this Scripture rules of all doctrine haue spronge and that from hence doth spring and hither doth retourne whatsoeuer the Ecclesiasticall discipline doth
Churches in his dominions both lawfully may by duety ought not onely to disanull what-soeuer election the Elders and people haue vnlawfully made but also by his ciuil preeminence to compell them to make a newe election according to the Worde of God Which as it is as much as the sole election by the Byshop giueth to the Prince yea or rather more so if they can shew any further thing due vnto the Magistrate all such as with a sincere minde seeke for the reformation of the Church are alwayes as readye with all humblenesse to giue it as they will be willing with singlenesse to shew it To the place of the Councell of Laodicea and Origin let this be the aunswere The meaning of the Councell in those words Non populo concedendum electionem facere c. We ought not to giue leaue to the people to make electioÌ„ is they shold not bear y e whol sway without the gouernment or direction of the Elders and not to shut out the due consent of the people as is manifest by the counselles going afore as shall hereafter appeare against which this counsell woulde not haue decreed vnlesse it had repealed the same or shewed some reason but most of all by Counselles following who haue authorized the consent of the people and namely the 4. of Carthage which was confirmed in the sixt generall Counsell at Trullum together with that of Laodicia which would not haue confirmed contrary decrees The wordes are these When he speaking of the bishop shal be examined in al these and founde fully instructed then let him bee ordayned with the consent Clericorum laicorum of the Clearks lay men As for that of Origin it is nothing to the purpose which hee sayth of the people except there could be some priuiledge shewed that partly the same or such like as daungerous infirmities were not to be founde in a Byshop The next reason maketh as much against the election of Byshops as of the people seeing they may bee hypocrites as well as the people in all mens iudgement one man is sooner carried with ambition couetousnesse then an whole Church of godly Elders and Christian people vnto disorder And if for the contentions striuings of y â— people y e church may abrogate the consent of y e people in Ecclesiastical elections theÌ„ may she by the same authority disanull Synods and Counselles which as often haue beene full of rage and vprores and of which Nazianzen saith He neuer sawe good issue but that thorough merueilous ambition desire of contention thinges out of order were not remedied but made worse Epist 42. ad procopt Neither for this cause as the promise of God made to counsels is not lightly to bee regarded so ought hee not thus prophanely to reiect it when it is brought to vphold y t consent of y e people Further wher as he saith that Churches both of elder later times haue for that cause abandoned such elections it is to be thought he can bring as much for the proofe of it as hee hath already alleadged which is nothing Whatsoeuer hee can doe the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers and the examples of the elder Churches is farre otherwise For Chrysostome vpon Actes 1. aunswering the Question why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples saith Least the matter should be turned into a brawle and haue fallen to a contention For the elder Churches he cannot be ignoraunt how many haue beene troubled with such inconueniences and yet haue not sought such extream remedies nay the example of good Constantine the Emperour is notable who when the citizens of Nicodemia had chosen an Arrian a runnagate and a rayler on the Emperour he did not take awaye the Churches consent but by his Letters according to his duety mooued them to a newe Theodoret lib. 1. Cap. 19. Againe if these infirmities of the people bee a good reason to take away their libertye in the Election of their Ministers then the contrary vertues which oftentimes haue beene found in them in staying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisies Mat 21. 26. Actes 3. 26. in preferring catholique persons before Arrians and in being themselues catholiques when their Byshops haue been heretiques Zozo lib. 7. cap 7. Theodo lib. 2. cap. 7. is a good reason to maintaine their liberty â—till As concerning his questions following which as they declare rather a mind giuen to cauell at that which he cannot by sound reason auoyde so are they easilye aunswered out of the course and proportion of trueth in the Scripture Women not being in the seate of Magistracy are forbidden by the Apostle to speak in such publique assemblies and exercise authority ouer men Which rule being spoken of y â— mother doth also barre children and such as shall bee in greater subiection vntill by yeares and Christian knowledge they shall by the iudgement of the Church growe vnto the liberty of Christians in that behalfe and then if they followe the greater and better part their sentence ought to preuaile As for the Question of the Patron seeing it is a constitution not of God but of man let the wise and skilfull lawyers define so they do no iuiury to the holie trueth of GOD and his Church The next Question is vayne and friuolous For first by due authoritye diuers be propounded and the Church consent to haue one of them it must needes bee that hee which is approued of the Elders and hath most voices must receiue the charge seeing that can not be sayde to be done with generall consent which thing the Scripture giueth to Church-elections where the fewest but where the moste directed aright do agree And as for them that be absent sicke or imployde if they haue any thing of waight to signify to the Church the Church is to harken vnto them by whome soeuer they sende their aduise And as it is no reason that when eyther sicknesse or theire duetie to the Church doe withhold them that shoulde abridge that libertie so if by negligence or wilfulnesse they bee absente after competent warning the whole Churche is not to depend vppon them who doe not so much loose as cast awaye theire interest in the election Lastly who seeth not that anye idle brayne may make these and such like demaundes both against the rules in the Scriptures and the obseruation in the primitiue Church Where he sayth that in the sixth of the Actes was not done by anie expresse commaundement of Christe but vppon the mutinye of the Greekes agaynst the Hebrewes as it is to bee graunted that it was an occasion why the people did present so that was no cause of their free consent is manifest by the other places where that is maintained without any particuler cause Actes 1. and Cap. 14. If Actes 6. speake of Deacons onely yet Actes 1. Actes 14. speake of Apostles and Elders and theire election by the consent of the people And if the peoples consent
forme of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment prescribed by the Word of God and perpetuall for all ages FOR as much as the purpose of this treatise is with all modesty and peace to giue cleare euidence to the trueth it was thought fittest for the cause and most profitable for the Christian Reader to set downe vnder certaine heades the seuerall assertions and reasons which are here and there scatteringly inforced by the answere to the Abstract against the seuerall braunches of the holye gouernement which Christ Jesus hath asigned for the ordinarie policie of his Church Amongest which that requireth the firste place which is the grounde of all the rest concerning the certaine forme of gouernement which he hath prescribed for his Church His wordes be these I doe therefore say and offer in the name of the learned to him or other to consider of that it is taken by vs for an vndoubted trueth the contrary whereof by no proofe we doe assure our selues can bee shewed that there are not set downe in perticuler by Scripture or by necessarie collection to be gathered all circumstaunces of pollicie gouernement Discipline and ceremonies necessary and vniformally to bee vsed in euery seuerall Church and that the Christian Magistrates and gouernours are not in the sayd former points wherof somthing is touched in Scripture of necessitie tyed to that precise forme that is there set downe but to the generall Doctrine concerning them to wit that al be done to edifying orderlye comely and such like page 33. And againe asking whether all reformed Churches are disciplinated alike he sayth Nay they neyther are can be nor yet neede so to be seeing it cannot be prooued that any set exact perticuler forme thereof is recommended to vs by the Worde of God pag. 58. And againe pag. 60. To the former assertion he addeth this reason For else how could the Primitiue Church without any prescript word I doe not onely say haue brought in a newe ceremonie but haue altered the Sabboth day by God appoynted at the first and being our Satterday to the first day of the week in the Scripture twise or thrise called the Lordes day and with vs Sunday or yet the time of receiuing the Sacrament of the Eucharist being according to the institution vsually receiued after Supper to haue it receiued as it is in the morning fasting In which assertions there is so little plaine dealing and so much vntruth as of y ◠one side they sauour of subtletie so on the other side they haue very smale taste of sound diuinitie For first when as the Question was of Discipline to be administred as the Lorde commaunded that is of the substantiall forme of Christes gouernement he carieth it to the ceremonies and circumstances of Discipline as if when the Apostle commaundeth to keepe the forme of wholesome doctrine one should aunswere it is not certaine because the circumstances rites times of it are variable Which also casteth a strong sent of the Romishe practize who to make a way to their additions and detractions in the matter of the Sacrament and otherwise flie vnto the circumstances of time number persons and such like Test Rem in annot John 6. verse 58. the which they say the Church may alter and chaunge The second subtletie is that when the state of the question is propoūded as that which is the difference betweene vs the verye poynt of it is so obscurely and doubtfully set down as one can hardly attaine vnto his meaning For when he saith the Magistrates are not in y e sayde former points tyed to the precise forme c. He leaueth it doubtfull whether by points are ment the particular circumstaunces of policy gouernment discipline and ceremonies which if they be he commeth no nearer the questions then thinges variable to thinges certaine and vnchangeable or whether he meaneth the thinges themselues to wit policie gouernment discipline which if he do then he is become an ouerturner of all the assertions of former diuines whatsoeuer For then if the Magistrate think it for order and comelines Ecclesiasticall censure shall be administred by ciuill persons layemen as he speaketh men may be excommunicated before they be summoned in a priuate corner not in the Congregation then the Magistrat may cause the Deacons forme to become the forme of the Bishop and the Biships forme the form of a Deacon Finally then the seuerall members of Christes bodye their formes and specificall differences maye be altered and changed as seemeth good vnto men then Princes maye ordayne Bishops as Bishoppes sometimes annoynt Princes Finally then the soueraigne Magistrates may them selues become Ecclesiasticall officers and Church-ministers which at once vndermineth not onelye the Church-discipline of God which we require to bee exact according to God his worde but also euen the formall destinction of offices censures and matters Ecclesiasticall which all other Churches and euen ours haue established are made arbitrarie and changeable seeing they are not tyed to the precise forme of these things It is palpable darknesse also which hee sayth that all Churches are not disciplinated alike because anye set and exact particuler forme thereof is not commended vnto vs in God his worde Which if he meane of the set forme of ecclesiastical gouernment all reformed churches acknowledge it either haue it or seek it and distinguish it in al their writings from the variable ceremonies or circumstances of the same as appeareth by y e places quoted in the margent if he meane it of circūstances of places times numbers and such like he calleth that to question which none euer made doubt of Nowe besides this confusion in propounding the Question the reasons of the assertion are full of vntrueth First the allegation of y e alteration of y ◠Saboth borowed from y ◠Jesuits annot Apo. 1. 10 sauing y ◠thei haue for shame limitted that which he left at large saying they did it w tout al cōmā-dement of Christ which they read of is not as he setteth downe iustifiable by y e Scriptures namely y ◠they did it without prescript cōmandement frō Christ For seeing the Apostles hauing by God his commaundement kept the Jewes Saboth for the weeke gone afore when the time of the alteration of the ceremony of that particuler day was come did for obseruation of the morall commaundement of celebrating one day in seuen ordaine and keepe the next day for the weeke following calling it and making it the Lordes day as the other was the Lordes Saboth it is manifest that when this cannot be altered without breache of the morall proportion of one in seuen that therein they had direction from Christe according to those words Teaching them to keepe what soeuer I commaund you Mat. 28. 20. If it be asked where in the Gospell this is commanded and prescribed of Christ let him shew the like of those which the Apostle speaketh of 1. Cor. 11 2. cap. 14. 37. Concerning the
doe not agree herewith in all circumstaunces or that he will tell vs that something extraordinary was here in this action not to bee followed then must hee shewe by direct Scripture what was ordinary and what was extraordinary and must reconcile other places of Scripture concerning like action which doe not agree in all poyntes with this In the first of the Actes two were presented one is chosen by lot and no imposition of handes heere seuen are chosen the manner not set downe by the multitude and being presented to the Apostles they all appoynt them and lay their handes on them In the 14. of Actes Paule and Barnabas are sayde Chirotonesasthai autois presbuterois and to haue fasted but no mention is made of imposion of handes heere all the Apostles did appoynt thē Hous katastesomen In the first to Titus he onely is willed to appoint priestes Hina catasteses presbuterous according as Paule prescribed vnto him Nay let him shewe vnto me any two refourmed Churches of diuers nations iumpe in all circumstaunces heereaboutes or anye one of them which permitteth this action without intermedling of the cheefe Pastours vnto all the Disciples or multitude of beleeuers in the sayde Church which yet haue an interest in hauing a good Minister but as I take it the cheefe swaye and moderating of such actions are in all other refourmed Churches in suche men to whome this trust is especially recommended And hath not likewise for auoyding of sundry inconueniences the whole Churche and Realme of Englande by Parliament whereunto euery man in the eye of the law is saide to haue consented reposed this trust in a fewe chosen men of ecclesiastical functiō Euen M. Beza him selfe concerning the place of the Actes doth say There is no cause why hereof anye man shoulde prescribe anye speciall rule but if the conscience be vpright it will be easie to set downe what is expedient according to the circumstaunces of tyme and places The reply vnto the former words Although the aunswerer in this large and tediouse discourse hath brought no new matter in substance which hath not alreadie beene sufficiently refelled so as no new encounter by publike writing as a supply hath beene made against the same yet shall it not be without fruite to the reader First to note out his tumultuous and insincere dealing his contrarietie with him selfe his agreement with the Papistes and then hauing particulerly layd◠open the nakednesse of his seuerall obiections briefly as before to set downe the plaine simple trueth out of the Scripture His tumultuous and insincere dealing appeareth in that pretending to haue greatlye sifted the wrytinges of this controuersie and to haue exact knowledge of the orders of reformed Churches in this behalfe hee is not ashamed in stead of incountringe with the truth to frame him selfe an vnknowne aduersary that is in steed of ouerthrowing the consent of people in Church-elections to make warre against a meere populer Election not gouerned with the fore-direction of the Elders which hath no ground in the scriptures and was neuer maintained as him selfe confesseth but by Anabaptistes and in steede of manly buckling with the substantiall pointes of Church-election with the foreleading of the Presbytery with the due consent of the people cowardly to betake himself vnto the changeable circumstances of the same as who should present the Elders or the people howe the people shoulde signify their consent by lifting vp their handes or otherwise by themselues or by proctors and diuers such other Which in the particuler answere following shall be declared howe according to the word of God they may vpon diuers circumstances be diuersly carried His contrariety to him felfe is apparant by these three partie-coloured assertions First that the people did chose without the Apostles Secondly they were to choose but the Apostles reserued to themselues the appointing of thē to their office if they shold be found to be such as were described Thirdly that the people presented them to the Apostles censures For that hee sayth they chose without the Apostles is directly contrary to that he sayth they presented them to the Apostles Censures so that their Election was to be disanulled and made none vnlesse by the examination of the Apostles they were founde aunswerable to their description His agreement with the papists and namely with the Romish Remists Testament doth notably appeare in that they appoynting as he doth the fift verse of the 1. of Titus to the consent of the people in the Election of their Minister they doe more breefly but as fully and plainly and with more curtesy to the trueth set downe both his assertions reasons and auncient Testimonies in these fewe words following And here it seemeth that he did not only consecrate them whom the people had elected before but him selfe also made choyse of the persons no mention being heere made of any other election populer which though it vvere long vsed in the primitiue Church yet for diuers causes and specially for continuall tumults partialities and disorders which Saint Augustine much complaineth of in his time was iustly taken away and other better meanes of their designement appointed See concil Laodic cap. 12. 13. So much the Papists Again how he iumpeth with the spirite of these Jesuites sauing that still they yeelde more to the trueth then he in saying That the Apostles shewed the people what to do without any prescript worde but onely by the instinct of Gods spirite may appeare by their words which they vse vpon the like occasion of Peter in their annotation on the 15. verse of the 1. Chapter of the Actes Which Peter saie they did not vpon cōmaundement of Christe written but by suggestion of God his spirit and by vnderstanding of the Scriptures of the old Testamēt to that purpose So far the papists And thus much generallye of his discourse Now of his particuler obiections the first is that he thincketh in no Church the whole number of people to haue free election of their Pastor If by free election he meane the due consent of the people either he speaketh against his knowledge or he knoweth not that he pretendeth seeing their confessions other their writinges and practize do in the knowledge of all those which know any thing in this matter euidently conuince him as may appeare by the quotations in the margent If he meane that the people should beare the whole swaye without the gouernment and direction of the Elders hee misseth the marke whereat hee aymeth Concerning the Queenes Maiesties prerogatiue royall which he would gladly oppone against the cōsent of the people in Church-elections First he could not be ignorant but that all acknowlege that the Christian magistrat as a principal member of y e congregatiō where he is ought to haue an interest in y e election answerable to his place aswel for aduise as consent Secondly the supreme magistrate according to the high authority which God hath committed vnto him ouer all
is not to be shut out in the Deacons which lesse importeth their libertye and saluation much lesse are they to be debarred in their Pastors and Elders vppon whome as Peter sayth the flocke dependeth Where hee sayth the people chose without the Apostles it is shewed already howe his owne wordes checke him and the trueth is plainly to bee seene in the Texte that neyther the people without the Apostles directing them nor the Apostles without the people consenting vnto them made that Election As for shutting out of the Byshops and Church-gouernours it is meruaile why hee shoulde feare it vnlesse iealousy which is fearefull where no feare is hath blinded his eyes That of the Apostles doing without any expresse worde from Christes commaundement is aunswered before in that alleadged concerning the Saboth Cap. 1. and is further manifest by the example of the Apostle Paule who beeing not with the other Apostles yet followed that rule Acts 14. That he saith there is no certaine forme of their Election hee is refuted by his owne wordes following where he sheweth out of the Text their election to haue beene of this sort that vppon the instruction of the Apostles the people in presenting them necessarily therewithall gaue their consent as the Apostles did in accepting them to their ordination As for agreement of all Churches in all circumstances of this point he hath his aunswere before but that he willeth to be shewed what is ordinary and what is extraordinary His aunswere is that the Apostles instructed the people and they consented which is ordinary as appeareth in that it is kept in all Elections of the Church Actes 1. Actes 14. and 2. Cor. 9. 19. but that which was extraordinary was the presentation of the people the special cause whereof him selfe hath declared out of the text In the rest it is straunge that hee requireth reconciliation where there is no repugnaunce but all the places ioyne hande in hande together For y e first in y e election of the Apostle it lay in the liberty of y e church onely to choose some For the Lot beeing the voyce of God was to assigne which of them should bee the Apostle and this circumstance maketh strongly for the trueth which is mayntayned For if where God is to strike the principall stroke yet the peoples consent is to bee taken as farre as may bee howe muche more is the authoritye of the whole Church to be sought for where the Election is onelye to bee done by men as the Apostle speaketh Galat. 1. The obiection of the manner of the election Actes 6. is aunswered before As for the number of 7. who is so simple as not to knowe that the number is to be varied according to the spreade and greatnesse of the Churches where they are and the multitude of causes affayres to be dealt withall As for no imposition of handes in the first and 14. of the Actes it is too simple and scarse tollerable in a catechist seeing such thinges are to be gathered out of other places otherwise one may thinke there were no praiers in the celebrating of the Communion Acts 20. because there is no mention of it in that place which yet were very absurd considering that the order which S. Luke described in the Churche at Hierusalem prooueth that they continued in breaking of bread and praier And if such seely obiections need to bee aunswered as inforcing diuers formes of elections then also wee may proue diuersities of Communions some of the cup and bread together some of the cup alone some of breade alone by Act. 2. Act. 20. 1. Cor. 12. Wher he saith Titus only is willed to appoint priests belike the Jesuites translation was before him when he translated Presbyterous Priestes and that so dazeled his eyes that hee coulde not consider the wordes following that he shoulde do as hee had set him an order which was not to do it without the consent of y e church except Paul would lift vp Titus aboue himselfe Barnabas who chose Elders by voices And if the answerer had bene ignorant of y e vse of y e scripture which oftentimes giueth y ◠action to y e principal directer which yet belongeth to many more as Paule in one place saith Tim. receiued grace by the laying on of his hādes 2. Tim. 6. which in 1. Tim. 4. he declareth to haue beene done by y e laying on of y e handes of the Eldership yet his skil in Logick should haue shewed him y e deceit of this Sophism Titus appointed Elders therefore he appoynted thē without the consent of y e people Of this kind are al the reasons following As al reformed Churches iumpe not in al circumstaunces therefore they shut out the consent of the people In other Churches the Elders of euery congregation haue the chiefe directiō in the electione yet not without the consent of y e people therfore it is fitly according to their example ordered that the Church shoulde once for all gyue vp their interest into one mans handes for the continual election of many Churches The sentence of Maister Beza doth very fitly require an vpright conscience to set down what is expedient according to the circumstance of time and place Which if it had beene found in him at this time and in this matter he would not haue shut his eies against the manifest light of words going before which declare manyfestly that it is a perpetuall and vnchaungeable poynt in Church-elections which neither Church nor magistrate may alter that they be made with the consent of the people His wordes in that place are these Then therefore not in Churches buylded vp must all thinges be committed vnto the suffrages of the multitude neither yet are the Pastours to be chosen without the consent of the whole Church But all thinges are so to be moderated of the Elders and Christian Magistrates that neither they bring in tyrannie into the Church which surely should be done if they shoulde call any vnto publike function of their owne wil neglecting the consent of the multitude neither that the popular state of the Church degenerate into popular rule Neither are these wordes of Beza onely sufficient to shew his corruption but the title of the chap. where he taketh this obiection doth minister sufficient aunswere seeing it declareth that Beza in all that place speaketh not of the consent of the people which he made perpetuall in the chap. before but of the maner how he gaue their voyces which is but a circumstaunce And thus much both generally and particularly for the vnfolding of his vnfit and slender allegations Now followeth a confirmatition of the trueth it selfe which is It is substantiall vnchaungeable in churchelections that they be made by the body of euery Churche the Elders directing the people and them-selues to giue their free consent The reasons of which assertion are these First what soeuer are the wayes of the Apostles in ordinary
compasse of the ordinarye power of the Church who beeing immediatelye called of God coulde not be demissed by the Church For seeing no calling can bee made voyde but by the authority which made it that which hath immediately proceeded from God can not be repealed but by his voyce Now seeing the immediat voyce of God and Christ did not onely not make voyde but further establish the calling of Aaron and Peter how could y e Church meddle with that Or how coulde the rule giuen to the Church for to direct their mediate elections rule the immediate calling of God And if this be not playne inough to cause him to see the difference which is as greate as that which is betweene GOD and his Churche the voyce of man and the voyce of GOD Let him vnderstande it by an other example of lyke reason It hath beene prooued alreadye both by the Scriptures and Fathers that none shoulde be admitted to the Ministery by the Church but such as were sufficiently qualified by ordinary meanes or gyftes giuen them alreadye of God vnto the same function Now if to defend the Bishoppes in admitting Taylors Shomakers Weauers Chaundlers Harpers beeing also men furnished with no gyftes one shoulde alleadge the calling of Amos who by God was taken from the sheepfolde beeing neyther a Prophet nor sonne of a Prophet woulde it not be a manyfest dallying in the sight of God and man But rather as the ordinary power of the Church can not heerein imitate the Lordes prerogatiue because they can not as God with their calling powre in gyftes into the personnes whereby they shoulde bee inabled to their office So they muste not followe the prerogatiue of GOD in this because they are rather to bee gealouse and suspicious for the Churches sake though other-wyse they are bound to hope the beste of a repentaunt Sinner ouer him leaste he shoulde agayne betraye the cause of GOD which in God is farre other-wyse who not onelye knoweth the heartes of men but also what strength he will after gyue him and if hee let him fall hee knoweth how to tourne it to the profitte of his Church Now as these examples in this respecte approche not vnto the matter in debate So the example of AVGVSTINE a Manachie or such lyke because the question is not of such as were before their ministerye such or carryed away with the common ignoraunce before they knew the trueth but of suche as firste seruiuge GOD in his appoynted seruice doe not onely leaue the holy altar and fire but renouncing that betake them-selues to a prophane and idolatrous seruice and priesthoode Wherin he receiueth answere also vnto his allegations of the fathers and counsels which if they should speake of such as fell in capitall pointes from the true seruice of God of which somtimes they were Ministers they should then be directly contrary to the fathers and general counsels which shal anon be brought as direct and manyfest on our side The lyke is to be answeared vnto Viret and the example of the French Churches Hauing thus aunsweared his obiections the truth is confirmed sufficiently by the reasons following out of the Scriptures and auncient witnes from the councels and Fathers 1 Whatsoeuer God hath commaunded to be done in the lawe to declare the honour he hath of his right seruice how he will haue his Ministery beautified and fenced against the cauilles of all which are perpetuall equityes of such their prescription 1. Tim. 3. 7 that is still and perpetuallye to binde the Church 2 But such is the order which now we speake of as may appeare by the 1. King 23. 9. and by the 44. of Ezech 13. 14. 15. c 3 Wherefore this order must be kept holy and vndefiled We know it will be obiected that these commaundementes be in the olde Testament not in the new and that they are ceremoniall They who shall so obiect must consider the old Testament is of equal authority with the new and therefore seeing God hath once established this law for the Church-ministery they must not repeale it but by the same authoritie vnlesse they will make with y â— Manichees one iust God for the law and an other mercifull for the Gospel So that vnlesse it maye be shewed eyther that this law was onely a shadowe for a tyme to come or was made for some cause peculier for that tyme and those persons which they can not doe because of the perpetuall equityes before assigned It followeth that this must stande for an holy and induring constitution of God And in trueth such aunswere vndermineth at once both the glorye and perfection of God his holy Scriptures not onelye in our iudgement but in the iudgement of all wryters holy and prophane who haue continually alleadged the sentences and commaundementes of the olde Testament euen for the matters of the gouernment of the Church The Apostle prooueth the mayntenaune of the Ministerye for preaching of the Gospell by the lawe made for the maintenaunce of the Priestes in the 1. Cor. 9. he prooueth women ought not to exercise authority by the places of Genesis and in the first of Tim. 2. Cyprian as all know that read him prooueth the election of the people by the place of Numbers and that men are not to attempt further then their calling by the places of Dathan Abiram Uzza in the carrying of the Arke and such lyke If this exception serue howe shall we any longer with the Fathers and Godly wryters of our age stoppe their mouthes for the proofe of the Baptisme of Children with the reasons from Circumcision drawne out of the lawe Nay that they maye see they can not vndermyne the gouernment of Christe with such aunswers but they must also shake the brazen Pyllers of the Sacred authoritye of the Magistrate Let them shew with what Argumentes they can stoppe the Mouthes of Papystes in maintayning the Supreame authoritie of the Prince and our moste gratious Soueraigne in Ecclesiasticall causes to reforme religion according to Gods word to plant Church-officers by the rules of the same and according therevnto to depose Abiather and set vp Sadotk to call synodes Ecclesiastical when need is or when the Church-gouernours neglect their dutye other then by the examples of Ezechias Solomon Jehoshaphat Josias and by the pregnant reasons drawn from them Wherfore let them leaue these euasions and shifts vnto popish diuines to whom they appertaine But least they should thinke we haue but one piller to vpholde this trueth and that onely in the olde Testament let them answere the reasons following out of the newe If Paule did rightly think It so vnlawfull to take Mark such a one as went from them from Pamphilia and accompanied them not vnto the worke y â— he would rather be at sharp strife with Barnabas the sonne of consolation and be seperated from so worthy a companion in all his labors then accept Mark herein being iustified aboue Barnabas by S. Luke
sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
true 1 That which the Apostle maketh the iudgement of a particular Congregation that must needes appertaine to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders as the gouernours and to the people as consenters 2 But this the Apostle plainelye expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why iudge you not those who are within Seperate him therefore from amongst you 3 Therfore it is true which we affirm If it be the especiall dutye of the Pastor by the authority of the Eldership to deliuer the holye Sacramentes to the worthy and detayne them from the vnworthy Then vnlesse he should be compelled to gyue them to the vnworthye and with-hold them from the worthy excommunication muste belong to him with his fellow Elders But the first is manifest by these Scriptures Leuit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They haue polluted the holye thinges And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true The consequent of the firste part is manyfest because he must deliuer them to all not suspended and excommunicated and to the rest hee must not The consent of the auncient tymes agree vnto this The counsell of Arles 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspencion which the Elders and Clearkes decree against the Bishop And they doe it by the authority of auncient decrees Also seeing the councels conclude both generallye that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of gouernment Ecclesiasticall without the Elders and that they shall not ordayne without them and that they alone can not so much as gyue leaue to any of the Cleargy to goe vnto the Widowes or Uirgins but with the consent of the Elders it followeth much more that they mighte not excommunicate without them Now the first sort are directly prooued by these Canons following Concil Carthag 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops heare no cause without the presence of his Clearkes otherwise the sentence shall be voyde vnlesse it be confirmed by the presence of the Clearkes And the 22. That the Bishop ordayne not Clearks without the counsell of his clearks so that he seeke the assent and leaue or conniuence testimonie of the citizens Canon 3. An Elder when he is ordayned the Bishop blessing him holding his hand vppon his heade let also all the Elders which are present holde their handes by the handes of the Bishop That the Clearkes or those who containe come not to the Widowes or Virgins but by the commaundement or permission of the Bishops and Elders And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent not hauing asked councell of the Bishop Ierom. ad demetri 1. Epist The Elders in other censures of the Church and the Church hath interest in excommunication Cyprian lib. 3. Epist 19. Speaking of excommunication of which vntill we shall haue vnderstanding what he haue done after which thing when it regardeth the Counsell and sentence of vs all I dare not preiudicate the matter and draw it only to my selfe And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist 15. epist 16. and August speaking of the elders saith because all thinges in tradition of the Lord are done by the holie Ghost therefore when a rule and forme of this Discipline is deliuered vnto them it is sayde vnto them receiue the holy ghost because it doth truly appertaine to ecclesiasticall righte whose sinnes you forgiue c. Of the Doctor or teacher that he is an ordinary and perpetuall officer in the Church of Christ distinct from the Pastor by the Worde of God COncerning which y â— words of y â— answerer are these And I hope that the authour will not heereby gather that by law nowe in force a man is vtterly simplie forbidden to haue an other preach in his cure for then all our new doctours De robe curté who iutrude themselues vppon must bee faine to giue ouer their cloakes and put vp their Pipes fol. 41. If this had bene directed against the particuler persons of some it had beene beyond the rule of charitie and modesty though he should be a Doctor who spake it thus to slaunder any with intrusion and hauing nothing to saye to their doctrine and lyues to gybe at the apparel which they weare in iourney or otherwise vpon occasion being both sober and graue yea when as commonly they vse a gowne with as much grauitie lesse flanting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men and not of God But now that it is brought to deface as shall be proued the ordinaunce of God thus without all proofe to flout and to taunt the officers of God beseemeth neither the grauitye of a Cambridge Doctor nor the modesty of a Christian nor the ciuility of an honest man Their intrusion forsooth is this that hauing first according to the order of the Church of England authority to preach they come vpon the earnest desire of the CongregatioÌ„ with the consent of the Pastor vnlesse being no preacher and ignoraunt for enuy he can not beare him to instruct the people with wholsome doctrine out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures their Pipes which he sayth prophanely they may put vp is the Vtteraunce of knowledge a gift of the holy Ghoste which is more sweete to GOD his Children and acceptable to the Lord then al the gilded Organes and Pipes in the Realme For in the spirituall battell their Sound is vncertaine when as these as the Siluer trumpets of Gods sauctuary giue certayne warning to the people to serue the Lorde aright Thus hauing in a worde with as much patience and modesty as the Lord woulde giue me touched not the Salt but vnsauory brine of his floutes hauing no reason of his to deale withall I set downe these following first for profe out of y t scripture then for witnes out of ancient wryters 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle setting downe the ordinary perpetual members of Christs body in euery particuler Congregation doth make an ordinarie member in the same distintâ—t in his proper workes and action from all the rest the same is a perpetuall ordinary Church-officer 2 But he maketh the Doctor in that reckoning a distinct member hauing a distinct action from all the rest to wit teaching distinguished there from exhortation from gouerning from distributing 3 Wherefore it is plaine that he is a Church-officer ordinary and perpetuall for his giftes and vse are ordinary and perpetuall and also distinguished from the Pastor 1 Whatsoeuer Christe hath giuen to his Church with an ordinary and perpetuall gift for the perpetual work of the ministery gathering and building vp of the Church vnto perfection that is an ordinary Church-officer 2 But so he hath giuen Pastours and Doctors Ephes 4. 11. 3 Therefore both are perpetuall and ordinary officers and by consequent distinct Unto this argument they obiect because the Apostle hauing sayde some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes he saith in the last place some Pastors and Teachers which because they are coupled by and they say they
are one and not distinct To which I aunswere they may as well prooue hope and charity to be one and not distinct because the Apostle saith these three remaine faith hope and charitie because he coupleth them with and. But if these men haue not learned either that and though sometymes it rather repeateth or interpreteth then coupleth diuers thinges yet that most properly and commonlye it doth not so or that it is an elegancie with the Grecians in such long distributions to ioyne the twoo laste members especially if they bee of greater kindered and familiaritie then the rest to ioyne them with a copulatiue coniunction in the ende If I say they haue not obserued this in Homer and others Let them learne it of Paule Galath 3. where beeing about to shew that in Christe there is no difference of the outward distinctioÌ„ of kindes in this life he maketh a distinction or numbring vp of the diuers sorts and ioyneth the two last most like in nature and kindred yet not one and the same togeather saying There is neither Iewe nor Grecian ther is neither bond nor free there is neither male and female Hauing answered this obiection I proceede to other argumentes 1 Whatsoeuer is set as Church-officer in the Church by God with a distinct and proper ordinary gift that is such as we haue aboue described 2 But God hath set in the Church Doctors and giuen them their peculiar worke and gyft The Worde or vtteraunce of knowledge distinguished from the Pastors worke and gift the Word or vtteraunce of Wisdome in exhortation 3 Wherfore the Doctor is such a one as we haue described The second part is manifest by these wordes And these God hath set in his Church first Apostles secondly Prophetes thirdly teachers after powers theÌ„ the gifts of healing helpers gouernors sorts of tongs are all Apostles are al propehts Are all teachers And ver 8. To this is giuen by the spirit the word of wisdom to an other the word of knowledge according to the same spirite If they say the Worde teacher is heere taken generally not properly for the Doctor besides the 8. verse which doth manifestly refel them these reasons confute them First because he distinguisheth them from apostles and Prophets which in that generall signification should comprehend them and if it should comprehende anye more then Doctours properly yet it were no reason to shutte out those who are so called Lastly seing they can shew no place where it is so taken but alwayes is generall of all Ministers of the Word as the Apostle calleth him-selfe A teacher of the Gentiles And Timothy is willed to teach as also is euery Bishop or els it is proper for the peculier Church-officer so called it were against al rule of interpretation to shut out the proper which here agreeth with the circuÌ„stances of the text take a straunge vnwonted signification as to signifie a Pastor by a Doctor Our last reason is Seeing the Prophet Esay prophesying of the calling of the Gentiles by the ministerie of the Apostles doth also prophesie that of these called to the faith he would take of them to be Priestes and Leuites meaning according as the Prophets vse to speake by offices and holy thinges of the lawe to note out such offices as had some similitude proportion with those vnder the Gospell them to be Pastors who in administring of the Sacraments sleaing by exhortation the old man offring vp the new man acceptable to God holde proportion with the Priestes and to be Leuits whose office concerning y â— substantiall poynt of deliuery of doctrine is one the same with theirs that it must needs be that according to the scriptures of the new Testament this prophesie shold be fulfilled in the office of Doctors as well as of Pastors And this was that which the Fathers ment in their coÌ„mon resembling of Pastors to Priestes Eusebius declareth this most plainly in setting down the duties of y â— Doctor to catechise them as a master his schollers by continual reading to them or exercising to aduance them in knowledge For writing of y â— persecution of y â— church vnder Seuerus speaking of Origin he saith â—he exercise of teaching or the schole exercising as some where euen himself maketh relation in writing none serued or was set to catechise at Alexandria but all were driuen away by the threatning of persecution some of the Gentils came vnto him to heare the word of God And a little after Origin was then 18. yeare old when he was ouer the schoole of catechising or instructing And Nazianzen saith in Orat. Pros tous politeuomenous The seruants must be subiect to their masters the wiues to their husbands the Church to the Lorde the Disciples to their Pastors and Teachers Of the Elders and Eldership HAuing ended the treatise of the Doctor his office we are to proceede vnto the Elders and Eldership with whom he dealeth as prophanely as with the others his wordes are fol. 43. But why are Presbyteri such as expouÌ„d in the Church translated Elders I trust he mindeth not hereby to shut out all lay-men from the Eldership or seigniory which is dreamed of least peraduenture he him self be Exclusissimus And Pag. 57. And doth our Author thinke that this man heere doth meane their laye Presbiteries neuer heard nor reade of from the beginning of the worlde till within these fortye yeares or little more because he nameth them Ecclesiasticall Magistrates In which wordes of our author wee see his cheefest reason against the Ecclesiasticall Presbyterie is that the Elders are lay and the Presbyteries lay and therefore there hath not beene heard til within this forty year of them in the world To which we answere if y â— Elders which ioine with the Pastor Doctor were lay men yet it followeth not that the Eldership is lay But can his degree of Doctor if he bee so much giue such credite vnto his bare word as though all y â— Christian Churches which by the grace of God do exercise this discipline shoulde bee beleeued to haue a Presbitery of such as are not elected and ordained Ecclesiastically to their office If I be not deceiued herein his lawes may teach him if he wil not learn it out of the Scriptures that whosoeuer is called with due examination and trial with the consent of those to whom it appertaineth and are with fasting and prayers or prayers onely and with imposition of hands seperated or put a part to that office that they are Ecclesiastical persons and not lay-men as he calleth them otherwise there is no rule in the Scripture to descerne betweene men priuate and betweene Church-officers Nowe if hee consider either the order which we maintaine out of the Scripture or that which is practized in al reformed Churches he shal find that they are duely examined by the Elders elected of the whole Churche ordeined of the Eldership yea hee
and their dutie and of the churches duetye to them Rom. 13. Lastly the Gouernours wee speake of in their gouerment are placed as farre vnder the Pastors and Teachers as they are vnder the Apostles and Prophetes which if they dare say it of y ◠Magistrates they are them-selues become plaine Annabaptists and do cleane ouerthrow the most rightfull soueraigntie of Princes ouer all persons and causes as well Ciuill as Ecclesiasticall A fourth reason is seeing oure Sauiour Christ in setting downe the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery speaketh according to the Jewes for otherwise the Apostles could not haue vnderstood him when he sayde tell the congregation or Churche which was the title then giuen vnto the Ecclesiasticall Senate and his wordes of hauing as a Publican and Heathen doth manifestly prooue he ment to speak according to their custome It must needes be that hee did according to the places afore brought ordayne a Presbytery of Pastors Teachers and Elders like vnto theirs of Priestes Scribes or Teachers of the Law and their Elders which gouerned onely In y ◠fift place y ◠precept of S. James which willeth them to sende for the Elders of the Church when they be weak therby plainly declaring that y ◠Church ought not onely to haue a Pastor and a Doctor whose cheefe attendance must be on reading exhortation and doctrine But also many who ought alwayes to bee ready at the instant calling of diuers and many at once that none in y ◠necessary worke bee neglected it followeth thereby that beside them there ought to be such other elders as may admonish the vnruly comfort the weak minded patient towards all Lastly all those places which say Elders were ordayned Churche by Church that an accusation must not be taken against them vnder two witnesses and such like doe establish these for seeing the wordes are generall to both as haue bene prooued before and no circumstance doth restraine them nay the circumstances vphold y ◠general because in the first place Lukes purpose is to declare howe the Apostles broughte the Churches to a perfect and full order of Church-gouernment and in the other the Apostle had spoken immediately before of both sorts Wherfore vnlesse they will ouerthrowe all certayne sense of these places and that notable rule of interpretation that the wordes and sense of places are not to be restrained but vpon repugnance of places or playn circumstaunces of Text they must here vnderstande both sortes of Elders And thus much out of the Scriptures nowe out of the Fathers IGNATIVS AD TRVLL There is no Churche which can stande without her Eldershippe or Councell Tertull. Apoll. Cap. 39. If there bee anye that hath committed such a fault that hee bee put away from the partaking of the Praiers of the Church and from all holy affayres or matters there bee presidents certain of the most approued auncientes and Elders Theophilact on the place of Mat. interpreteth tell the Church tell the Gouernours thereof Ambrose 1. Timoth. 5. Complayneth that the Teachers and Ministers of the Word suffered this to weare out of the Church or rather of pride whilste they onely would seeme to doe somwhat Nowe all knowe that the Elders which they called Sacerdotes Priestes were not worne out of vse therefore hee may meane this and this sheweth what the Fathers meant And CIPRIAN confirmeth that as manifestlye that it remayned in his time where he sayth Lib. 4. Epi. 22 whē either examining whether al things agreed to them which should be in those who were prepared for the Ecclesiasticall function We gaue it to Optatus we with the Elders Doctors and readers ordain him Teacher of those which heare Which sheweth there were Elders for Gouernment which were not occupied in any publike diuine seruice distinguished not onelye from the Preachers but Readers Ierom also saith The Christian Church also hath her Eldership Ier. 2. lib. in Isa Which when he meneth it of such as the Jewes had it is plain hee meaneth those which we doe as may appeare by his wordes of the Jewes Elders Ad Galas quest decim They chose saith he of the wisest of their company for gouernors which shoulde aswell admonish those that had any corporall pollution to abstaine from the assemblies as to reprooue the breakers of the Sabboth A reply to the variable collections following against the Discipline HItherto we haue had whatsoeuer force he coulde make against the seuerall pointes of Church-gouernment handled before Now because he thoght the stenche of the former dung was not strong ynough to ouercome the sweete sauour which the Worde casteth vppon the Discipline hee hath tumbled together as hee thinketh a great many diuersities and contrarieties drawn from the writinges of those which seeke the Church-discipline whereby he woulde faine fasten vppon it that it is not to bee yeelded vnto because the Authors are not At any accorde or resolution amongst themselues nor yet with other learned men Also vppon hie olde song that these matters are in the liberty of the Church it is a very nice and a dangerous scrupulosity rather then to vse that aright which hath beene once abused that a man shoulde goe aboute to deuise and to laye oute new plat-formes in Church-matters in which of necessitie such difficulties will daylye arise that cannot by anye reache of mans wit bee forecast and will breede not only a continuall toil but also infinite daungerous innonations both in the Church and common-wealth Concerning which slaunderous dealing of his I will first generally speake of it and then make aunswere to his seuerall collections adding vnto euery one of his open contradictions inconueniences of their side not only drawn from the diuersitie of mens iudgement which in the best thinges are through humane infirmity at oddes but such as shew the cheefe defendors to bee at warre with them selues in the points which they mayntayn with the holy doctrin which they must needs confesse Now may it please the Reader in the first place to consider what iniutye this man doth not onelye to the Discipline but also to our holy Religion in this manner of dealing For by this reasoning of his it shall come to passe that the Religion when it was first preached by the Apostles because it was ioyned with contrarieties and strifes as of those of the Circumcision with the rest and sometimes with bitternesse and difference betweene the Ministers whilste one woulde haue one that had forsaken the worke go with them another woulde not sometimes tumultes and disorders following the same it might well haue beene refused and east away seeing the Professors were at variance contended and many inconueniences in the reason of man followed their preaching By this meanes the whole religion which is in truth maintained of vs and of our brethren whom now they call Lutherans as an vncertain and vngrounded religion because of contrariety between vs in the
matter of the Sacrament of the vbiquiti other points may be reiected of y e papists and their reason must be held as good because they haue as learnedly and truly gathered our diuersities betweene our selues inconueniences following vppon our Doctrine as this man hath doone in the matter of Ecclesiasticall Discipline Next vnto this fowle iniury done vnto religion his iniury done vnto so many worthy lerned men which haue so well deserued of the Church of God nay his inuiry done vnto all the reformed Churches in setting them together by the eares in slaundering them to like of vphold and maintain such a gouernment as hath no witnesse of the Scriptures or ancient times thogh they main tayne it by both such as bringeth with it not onely a maze and labarinth vnto all common-weales but which is at flat ennemity with Princes ouerthroweth their gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes and by sudden alteration turneth euery thing vpsie-downe Which reproch though it be so apparaunt as his owne conscience smote him with the gylce of it so as he would fayne auoyd the shame of it by colourable protestation and that before God not to derogate from any tollerable order established in these externall matters yet he cannot chuse but charge them that they make Princes raunge with the rest of their Seniours and Church-gouernours and that they debar princes of that right of gouernment in matters and ouer persons Eeclesiastical which the word of God al the examples of godly kings of Iudae doe aford vnto vs. The falsehoode of which is not onely manyfest by this witnes of haste as good as a thousand agaynst him but also by the testimonye which so manye worthy wryters nay Princes and Magistrates in their practise and confessions haue giuen to the same Now when the Christian Reader hath considered of this iniurye donne vnto GOD and his Church to vnderstande also firste that these are but Rapsodies gathered at leasure boasted of cast in the teth of some long since such as had other-wyse been vttered ere this but that no market would serue so well this Secondly that although He do as Sanballet send vs in wryting worde that we woulde builde vp the wall of Ierusalem and make our selues kinges when these thinges come to passe and that we set vp Prophetes which may preach of vs at Ierusalem there is a King at Iuda euery Pastor will be Pope yea and aboue the Prince in his Presbytery Yet with good Nehemias we can truely aunswere There is none of these thinges done but thou dost inuent them in thine hart and that all this is but to cast a feare vnto vs for they say their handes shall be weake from this worke that they perfect it not And therefore that our remedy is seeing we vse no meanes but by supplication but by manyfestation of the truth and seeke for nothing but Discipline which by the booke of ordination we promise to further according to our power euē to pray with the sayde Neh. Confirme O God our hands The first contradiction interlased with a lie that they make him Antichrist which refuseth the Presbytery is y ◠we vrge this as perpetual out of the place of Timothy which Caluin doth referre to his ministery which is no contradiction seeing if it be referred to his office yet it being a peece of Timothies office to procure that the thinges which he had learned of Paule shoulde be kept according to their nature and difference perpetually in the Church it sufficiently prooueth the matter in hande otherwise how Could he keepe it vntill the comming of Christ Like to that is the allegation out of the French discipline that those articles which were there contayned touching discipline are not so setled amongst vs but that the vnity he should say vtility of the church so requiring they may be chaunged which I saye is a meere cauill for they speak not nor meane not it of the substance of discipline contained in y ◠word but their maner of setting it downe according to the circumstaunces of their time as is plaine by Their title which calleth it but the firste cast brought of the substance of it as it is contayned in the Scriptures of the Apostles Which substaunce they were not so mad to change though they iudged they might alter thē in many points of circūstances For these sily contradictions let him take these monstrous ones proceding from this y ◠they wil not acknowledge the perfection of y ◠scriptures cōcerning discipline One nūbring vp as a circumstance to come clothed or naked to the supper of the Lord saith of those circūstances None of these circumstances are commauded in the Scriptures nor can by necessary collectiō be granted yet he knoweth it doth necessarily appertaine to comelines The next is that the Abstractor saith the Ministers ought not to wrest any thing into the gouernment of the church without due authoritie from the magistrate which he would haue contrary to that of the admonition M. Cartwright that our life must not be deare as thogh we can not by suffering if need were for so the condition is put aforde that without doing any thing which hath not due authority from the Magistrate His mingling of our sentence with Brownes is but a malitious proceeding Seeing him-selfe testifieth after that wee doe more then mislyke his doinges and writinges in respect of such proceedinges Like to this is that he alleadgeth out of Iunius that if the Prince doe hinder the building of the Church the people may by force of armes resist him Which as it is not in the Page which he noteth nor in all his booke of Discipline so how malitious a slander it is brought vp vpon so worthy a seruaunt of God maye appeare by his whole treatise of the ciuill Magistrat Lib. 3. cap. 5. Where hauing shewed how the Magistrate cannot alter the substantiall poyntes of Discipline and handled that question to one obiecting What shall the Church doe if it be by the Magistrates authoritye commaundement threatning and violence compelled Hee aunsweareth If the Magistrate ordayne any thing contrarie to God his worde that the Ministers shoulde plainly and modestly declare with Paule that they can do nothing against but for the truth But if the thinges be not contrarye to the truth and necessitie that the Churches are bound rather patiently to beare it then to bring the holy ordinaunce of God their body and the common peace into daunger Concerning excommunication shall be spoken after The booke he nameth of obedience I haue not The other matter out of the book deiure Magistratum as not pertayning to vs I purpose not to meddle with especially considering he handleth it more like a Lawyer then otherwise But after he hath alleadged testimonies to prooue that Which none but Papistes and Annabaptistes will deny that it is traiterous to teach the people that they shoulde owe no
e Church of France is ridiculous For thogh they say that Ministers Elders and Deacons are for Church discipline whereby discipline they mean y e order of y e Church generally yet in the gouernment of the Presbytery they ioyne onely the Elders with the Ministers and to the Deacons they giue nothing but the care for the poore and to giue aduise as the French Churches say is not onely graunted to Deacons but vnto all as â—uâ—re occasion shall serue Concerning the difference of widowes T. C. saith Where the conditions fall out which are set downe in 1. Tim. â— there they ought according to that rule to be established Wherin he agreeth with Daneus and the booke of Discipline doth not deny but that where there are such women and causes they maye and ought to bee so founde of the Church and are to serue the Church in such seruice as they shall put them to onelye he findeth no one peculier and proper seruice wherevnto they are tyed but are to bee imployed by the Deacons vnder whom they are contayned and in all this there is no difference worth the speaking of much lesse contradiction In the next y e question is only of a circumstance how long they shold continue wherein if Berna differ somewhat from vs what is that vnto the matter in hand what hurt to the substaunce of the cause The next obiection doth aunswere it selfe that as they vsed them then in some respects as the Deacon to Catechise and such like which they thought the straightes of the Church draue them vnto â—o otherwise for their office we do see they do in their confession acknowledge That the church must he gouerned with the policie which Christ hath ordayned that the offices of elders and Deacons are part of that policie Also y t it is a part of his Gospel is confirmed to be perpetuall to haue such a gouerment in their publike writing to y â— ende As fond is the next out of Daneus which declareth that although the Churches after the Apostles chose the Elders and Deacons to be perpetuall yet it also sayeth there is no such thing defined of in the Scriptures which proueth that it is a circumstaunce which may be altered according to the estate of the Church In the next he quoteth Bucer as repugnaunt to T. C. but nameth no place where we shall finde it Daneus doth not contrarie him but acknowledging it the order of God doth onely shew what was done in smal churches adioyned to the great and populous there beeing sufficient persons in the one which were not at the first in the other notwithstanding the Apostles ordayned it Church by Church Actes 14. And euery Church muste haue them to send for Jam. 5. and the causes of them which are to be assistaunt to the Pastor to administer the ecclesiastical censures to watch ouer the people and admonishe them are a like euery where Now if the Churches be too little the bodyes of seuerall congregations ought so to be ordred as they may haue all the members which Christ hath set for the perfection and beauty af his body vpon all the wals of Hierusalem there must be watch-men and vpon Euery habitation of mount Syon vppon her meetinges and Congregations there must be this presence of God as a cloude by day and a fire by night For looke what places they can bring for the perpetuity and for the right of euerye Church for a Pastour The same or lyke may be brought for the Elder Whereof it commeth that Ignatius sayde as he is alleadged before No Church can stande without her Eldership And Iustinus made his apologie wherein this Eldership is mentioned for all Churches Wherefore whatsoeuer Daneus graunt was done for a tyme till the Churches might conuenientlye bee brought to a conuenient stature neither beeing too high nor too short and to be beautifull bodyes neyther wanting a member nor hauing one too much that muste not preiudice the institution of Christ which Daneus confesseth When he sayth they must looke to the Church house by house and publikely also to the whole and to the sicke Of two Consistories in a city it may be he hath reade of but in one particular Church of two Ecclesiasticall Senates I will then beleeue it when he bringeth vs a more certaine direction then yet hee hath done to finde it and if they did seeing the inconueniences as he sayeth bring it to the right order what preiudise is that to the trueth In the next poynt of counsels there is no contrarietie betweene the admonition and the French Churches order For they say they may definitiuely define causes in a prouintiall Synode although I can not find those wordes by his quotation And the admonition saythe so except there be a generall counsell and they will haue it there For there is no reason if they will order it fitly at hoam to carry it to a generall counsell And I pray are these two so contrary They may ende it and they may ende it except they thinke it better to referre it to a generall counsel In passing from this difference to the next he setteth peremptorilie that it is manyfest that there is no certayne forme of electing Ecclesiasticall officers vsed by the Apostles but reason he sheweth none whereby it maye appeare So that if his Doctorship saye it we muste take it from him as vndoubtedly as if he had it by reuelation For confutation of which folly we may say thus much That seeing in the Ministers examination is to be had of knowledge of doctrine of ripe nesse to expound the Scriptures and in a worde of aptnes to teach it is manyfest that as the gouerning of this action belongeth to the Eldership and is to be done with publike prayers that besides the gouerning Elders there must be ministers who maye be able throughly to iudge and examine to conceiue publike prayer and to deliuer to the Church by doctrine exhortation whatsoeuer is expedient in this case Which thing is euident not onely by the perpetuall reason of it but also by the constant and vnchaungeable practise of the Apostles in the first of the Actes in the sixth of the Acts in the 14. in the 1. Tim. 3. of Tit. 1. Onely it is to be noted that it is not committed to one no not so much as to ordayne much lesse to elect but the ordination is by the Eldership And Timothy could not carry the matter away but had a charge for his owne part To keepe him-selfe pure and not to communicate with other mens sinnes whatsoeuer other Elders did in this case Now as this order is certayne and vnuariable both in the reason and practise of it so the circumstaunces whether it shall be by 6. or by 7. Ministers by a conference only or by a synode sauing where it may be the more the better is left to the disposition of the church Wherefore it is
not only without reason but also sence contrary to his professed knowledge to proclayme warre amongst the Churches for this matter of circumstaunce when they all haue the substaunce agreed vppon in Gods worde and doe not tye them-selues or others to the particuler circumstaunces It is also as absurde that he setteth downe as a contrarietie to the election of the Elders and people that they allowed the Officers chosen by the Consistorye or by voyces of the people or by one Minister as thogh that were derogatory to a right order to ratifie that by good authority which was at the first imperfectly donne Yet that is most absurde which he doth obtect againste the authour of the Abstract as though he were contrarye to this order because he woulde haue the people giue their consent seeing as hath beene shewed these may not only agree but ought vnseperably to be ioyned togeather in Church-lections For if eyther by silence or otherwyse they signifie their consent and the election be not made but sufficient deliberation be giuen them to shew iust causes of their dislyke or gladly to accept them It is all one as hath beene prooued in the treatise to that purpose In the next obiection he must first prooue that we dissent before he haue an answere for to haue it done by the Consistorye and to adioyne a conference are not contrary The next is answered in the treatise of the election of Church-officers The next is an vntruth For the confirmation De la dis Eccles sheweth that the people giue their consent and approbation according to the 14. of the Actes Page 233. The next we take but for a poore cauil grounded vnlesse hee make it appeare which he speaketh of some which hold it lawfull to picke a quarrel and leaue the ministery vpon a slaunder In deed if at one mans pleasure for truthes sake they be put out to seeke an honest way to lyue is not vnlawfull nor contrarye to the decree of the French Churches that they be chosen to be Ministers their whole life vnlesse they be discharged lawfully vnto which decree all agree The next of depositions receiueth the same answere which the elections doe for the authority which electeth must be that which deposeth and the Discipline of Fraunce meaneth no otherwise And of Excommunication ther is the like iudgement The Author of the Abstract can best expound his meaning and his words bear no such collection as hee gathereth For in saying the Minister may do it and that by Lawe in his charge aswell as the Byshop in his Diocesse He doth not authorize the Byshoppe to doe it alone but with due consent to whome it doth appertaine In the nexte when hee sheweth who that some bee which make decision of controuersies incident to euery Presbytery otherwise then if they can with contentation agree of the trueth amongst themselues we will giue his aunswere to it In the meane time we iudge of it as of the rest that it is vntrue The like of the two other excepting Brown for whome he hath his aunswere and of the next about God-fathers Concerning the next poynt the which he sayth of the Churches of Fraunce that they think it lawfull to baptize without an assembly I can not beleeue it vnlesse I haue better direction then the 7. article of their Discipline in which I can finde no such thing though I finde some other articles there which he hath aledged thence wherefore I feare that it is a fiction Concerning Holy-dayes let him firste shew that the Churches obserue them in maner of a Sabboth wholly to rest from their labour and then T. C. with his reasons or the churches with theirs must giue place to the truth The diuersity about popish Priestes is aunswered before in the tretise of that matter The next are but slaunders to which he gyueth no credite by anye testimonye and are confuted before in the treatise of the Doctor It is also a manifest vntruth that T. C. mislyketh wholly That anye are suffered to preach nor hauing a Pastorall charge For he speaketh generally of such as haue no charge neither Pastorall nor Doctorall For he would haue both tyed to a certayne place yea the Elders Preaching in other mens cures or charges wherevnto men are not lawfully called wee condemne according to the iudgement of the French Churches neither doth he note any wher we might finde the contrarie In ordaining of ceremonies the admonition meaneth no otherwise than the Frenche Churches for though the Eldershippe abollishe those which are vnprofitable yet it may be don with consent alowance of other Churches for which cause hee entreateth of conferences page 30. 31. c. That hee saith of the admonition as though they misliked a prescript forme of prayer is an vtter vntruth for there are not anye wordes which shewe they mislike a prescript forme of prayers As for vnleauened bread it is but proper to Geneua onely now our Church hath alowed the other why should he then make any difference or strife about it The matters of mariage or such like heere named as they are handled with vs are ciuil but as they become doubtfull in any question of God his worde or what is expedient for the Church to doe for auoyding of offence belongeth vnto the Ecclesiasticall seigniorie and so that difference is aunsweared In the other also it is defended as vnlawfull for a Minister of the Worde to be occupied in Ciuill affayres Againste this he in vaine bringeth an exception in Elders which rule onely Neither is it simplye a Ciuill thing to giue testimonies in writinges for to doe it for matters Ecclesiasticall as for soundnesse of fayth for assuring them to be receiued which were excommunicate or such like it is an Ecclesiastical not a Ciuill action Touching the order of the French Church for publishing of Bookes we consent that where the Discipline is established and an order taken that men with modesly in a Synode may be sufficiently heard and satisfied that it ought to be in force and as an Eeclesiasticall order obeyed from which yet a man may swarue being dryuen to gyue defence to the truth of God The next setteth his conceits in the laughter of all men For maye we not mislyke that he which ordayneth shoulde bydde the ordayned receaue the holye Ghoste which he can not gyue nor hath promise that his imposition of handes shall distribute auye gifts and yet alow that that place for instruction be repeated and intreased of Concerning his long srory of subscription this may be sufficient shortly to aunswere both to shew our â—uitye in iudgement with the Churches and also to satisfie the Church of England First therefore we say that we haue alwayes beene readye according to our dutye to subscribe to her Maiesties supreame authority and to the Articles of religion concerning the doctrine of fayth and of the Sacramentes which is all that is requyred by law Secondly when as it is