Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	abuse_v	true_a	zion_n	15	3	8.9475	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A64576	A vindication of Scripture and ministery in a rejoynder to a reply not long since published by Thomas Speed ... : wherein sundry Scriptures are explained, divers questions (relating to these times) discussed, and the truth asserted against the exceptions of papists and Quakers : whereunto is adjoyned a postscript reflecting upon and returning answer to divers passages in Thomas Speed his last pamphlet / by William Thomas ...	Thomas, William, 1593-1667.	1657 (1657)	Wing T991; ESTC R1167	73,914	98

to be made Ministers for which no doubt there were able and faithful Instruments and Agents employed As for his Expression of keeping Chaplains that 's but to make himself his company merry who had more need to be made wise T.S. But who are those that tryed you were they not such as are like unto your self Pag. 35 could they try your gifts who had not the gift themselves Could those that were enemies to the cross of Christ try who were fit to be made Ministers of Christ c. W.T. A. 1. If they were as he saith like my self I leave it to others to speak and judge whether they were such as he describes afterward nor would he speak so of former-Ordainers without any exception or discretion if he were as careful to speak the Truth as he is vvilling to speak the vvorst 2. Though Tryars be very blamable in regard of their personal carriage yet having abilities in themselves and rules to walk by in their examination they might make a true discovery in the capacity of Tryars An Artificer may be a dissolute man in his life and yet being skilfull in his calling may be fitter than a man of better carriage to try those that pretend to that Calling And as for grace and goodness besides that many that were Examiners and Ordainers formerly were godly men even he that we cannot say is possest with true grace himself yet may be so farre acquianted wi●h it as to be able to enquire into the probable evidences of it Whereof on the other side the holiest man that is is not able to give an infalible character in another man W.T. And that there might be an outward calling we were Ordained by Bishops that were Presbyters and other Presbyters that were not Bishops who were to be and wer● joyned with them in our Ordination T. S. You have well derived your Succession and very learnedly acknowledge your self and your Brethren to be Romes Emissaries brats of Babylon c. W.T. A. 1. He must have leave to say any thing and it must be true because he saies so who in all his Book shewes himself a man of a deceitfull tongue But were those Bishops and Presbyters Antichristian that for the testimony of Jesus were buried in Antichristian flames Or divers others that have imployed themselves from time to time since that time in the opposing of Antichrist and his antichristian doctrines renouncing also in their practice his waies of worship 2. If he say they were Antichristian because their Ordination and call to the Ministry came from Antichrist although I doubt not they that fear God sufficiently see the Lords approbation of our Ministry by the effect they have found it to have on their hearts and souls yet for their further satisfaction this being a thing that is still urged by those of all sorts that are adversaries to the Ministry I shall give this more particular account of it First as ordinary Ministers that is Pastors and Teachers are from Christ Ephes. 4.11 and the ordinary way of their ordination also is from Christ Tit. 1.5 so the ordaining of publick Teachers in that way was not from but long before Antichrist for we find it in Scripture Acts 14.23 1 Tim. 4.14 If the Ministry be said to have been under Antichrist it is not denyed but that amounts to no more but that it passed through Antichrist as the Scriptures also did and the ordinance of Baptism which it is confessed are not therefore to be rejected Now though it be granted that our Ministry came through Antichrist yet that doth not prove that it came from him but that it came not from him for how could that come from him that was before him and onely passed through him as an Army through an enemies countrey Nor is it denyed that this and other Ordinances were defiled in the passage but its one thing to be made ●oul another thing to be made null and to loose their nature and substance It is observed that Priests and School doctors ordained in popish Churches and Schools were by Oath solemnly bound to confute errour and to maintain the antient Apostolick Faith I am saith Luther a baptized Christian and withall a sworn Doctor of the holy Scripture and a daily preacher whom it concerns in regard of my name condition oath and office to ab●lish perverse false seducing impious doctrines or at least to hinder them And this reason he gives of his burning of popish and poisoning b Books As this on the one side addes little to the reputation of the Church of Rome who though they had the things of God yet have managed them for the devils use no more than it added to Belshashers honour and happiness that he had in his custody the Golden vessels that were taken out of the Temple of the house of God to drink and quaff in Dan. 5.3 So on the other side it cannot be justly reckoned a disparagement to our Ministry received from Christ and his Apostles and the Primitive Churches that it hath passed through and been polluted by the Romish Channel no more than it was a dishonour to those holy Vessels or them that bare them and ministred with them Isa 52.11 that they were abused to the praise of Idol gods in Babilon Dan. 5.4 when after they came to be used according to the minde and to the honour of the true God in Sion Secondly I answer That if there had been no lawfull Call to the Ministry in the Church of Rome no not for substance yet our first Reformers and noble Predecessors might be surely said to be lawfully called because they being men of extraordinary abilities spirits and zeal for God and so inwardly and eminently qualified and called were also accepted chosen and clos'd with and outwardly called by the Church of God that is by those Christians that were lovers of the truth and wayes of God in those corrupt times whereby they might be truely said as things then stood to be sufficiently set apart for the ministerial work Obj. But you say Ministers are to be Ordained by Ministers and to be set apart by the Presbytery c Answ. True regularly and in settled times and when it may be had for Paul doth not send to the Christians of Cre●e to Ordain Elders themselv●s but he leaves Titus to do it But many things may be done lawfully in a confused time and when Churches are in constituting and reforming that are not to be allowed when they are once formed and settled When a town is on fire every one that hath a Bucket that hath strength and means to do it is called to quench it The world was all on a flame as it were by the popish fire This fire was to be quenched that it might not devoure all The first Reformers had Buckets that is gifts and abilities to draw water out of the wells of salvation to prevent the consumption of all right