branches bear little fruit but vnto themselues and as Moses foretold their grapes are grapes of gal their clusters bitter for the publick idolatries vsed in your assemblies after the maner of the mother of Rome shew that your vine is of the vine of Sodom Christ prayed onely for them that should beleeu in him through the word that they all might be one in the Father and the Son as the Father in him and he in the Father but the true members of your best assemblies are one with the world for whome Christ would not pray being on spiritual body ioyned in communioÌ„ with the whol multitude of profane and wicked of the land That strange it is you should read the scriptures and not discerne how farr you are from being vnited with Christ who as himselfe was not of the world so neyther are his people but chosen and separated out of the same Whereas you bring no proof that your people haue true faith but by Mr Iohnsons confession it sheweth how distressed and helplesse your estate is Yet doe you great wrong to Mr. Io as the reader may see in the place that you cite For although considering them apart from the constitution of your Church he thinketh by the appearance of the knowledge faith and fruits of diuers that they may well be thought in regard of Gods election in Christ to be heirs of saluation and in that respect true Christians yet in respect of the constitution of your Church he sayth they can not be iudged true Christian. Now we deal against your church in regard of the constitution thereof not doubting but God hath many elect heyres of salâ—ation among you which we leaue vnto him that knowes them Your argument then from Mr Iohnsons confession is faultie and agreeth not with the rules of right reasoning for whereas he limiteth his iudgment of them shewing in what respect it is plainelie excepteth their church-constitution you bear your reader in hand as if he granted it without lâ—mitation and that too according to the Scriptures in your first proposition which evidently do concern the churches constitution You may much abuse any mans words if what he speaketh respectively you will take and allege as spoken absolâ—telie So your proofe fayleth you In the end you referr vs to the confirmation of your 5 Argument following to the Answer whâ—reof I also refer the reader Now though I haue answered first to the assumption or second part of your argument on proof whereof you doe insist yet the first part also shal be better examined ere I let it passe Those churches you say whose true members are onely espowsed to Christ. are true visible churches By true members I conceiue you doe meane not as the truth is all baptised and so reteyned in your church but some few choise persons or forward professors among whom there is an imaginary brotherhood and separation from the other profane in your parishes though invery deed they stand all one bodie If thus you intend as the proof of your assumption plainelie intimateth you do then offer you violence to the similitud of mariage or espowsall which al meÌ„ know is not with some few members of a womans body as her fingers or hands c but with the whole woman who giueth her selfe by covenant vnto her spowse or husband And as in civill mariage so it is in spirituall for Israel of old when the Lord became a husband vnto them did not some of them but all the multitude generally make covenant with their God the scriptures also which you alleg Eph 5.2 Cor 11 speak of the whole body of the church not of a few select members of the same For though it be true of every visible church that some onely are elect howsoeuer all be called yet the discerning of this belongeth to God alone and not to vs who esteem of persons according to their outward covenant profession and walking Your reason then seemes to be like this That womans â—hose true members as namely her eye and eare and some of her fingers are espowsed onâ—ly to such a man She is his true and lawfull wife But the true members of N howsoeuer her whole bodie in generall is coupled with an adulterer and the most of her members ar affected and wholly giuen ouer to that adulterer and her pretended husband they hate never made couenaÌ„t with ar espowsed only to such a man Threfore c. If this reason be not absurd let him that readeth iudge and if such absurdity be not implyed in your argument shew if you can in your next writing for if you striue to avoyd this you will fall into another evill as shall then be manifested The 3. argument IN what churches soever is such an ordinance of God in publick vse and forâ— by which there is ordinarily made an vndoubted resurrection or quickning froÌ„ the death of sinne vnto the life of grace and a new birth they are true visible churches of Christ. Iam 1 18 1 Pet 1 23. But in the best of our assemblies is such an ordinance of God c. Therefâ—â—e c. The assumption is manifest because by that ordinance of preaching which is in publick vse and force there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth seing there doe ordinarily appear in many the vndoubted fruites and testimonies of Gods spirit after the publick and ordinary preaching of the word in our best assemblies Answer THE first part of this your argument seemeth to imply an error as that a church is first gathered constituted of an vnregenerate profane and worldly people over which are set Pastors and Teachers who by preaching the Gospel doe beget them or some of them vnto thâ— faith and quicken them from the death of sinn c which quickning or new birth is a proof that they are a true visible church This course I finde to be contrary vnto the scriptures which I would thus manifest When the Lord Iesus would shew mercy to the world and call his elect out of the same he sent Apostles Prophets and Evangelists to preach his saluation to all peoples The people to whom they preached werâ— not for the most part churches of God but assemblies of heathens and idolaters as for example the men of Lystra of Corinth of Athens where Paul preached in Mars street and other like places By meaneâ— of this manner preaching many â—eople were regenerate or beâ—ne a new quickned from the death of sâ—â—â—e aâ—d tuâ—â—ed from idols to the liuing God And being thus begotten vnto God they were separated from others that belâ—eued not and ioyned togither into a holy comâ—union not hauing other officers over them for a while till men were fitted for such a worke Therefore oft times the Apostles departed to other places and left the Evangelâ—sts to redresse things that remayned and to ordein them Elders in every citie as the Apostles
such wretches or any way admitting them vnto his body or the communion of hâ—s Church And for his arch-enemy the Romane Antichrist and his adherents the Lord Iesus Faithfull and true that iudgeth and warreth righteously he with his heauenly warriours after him fighteth with that Beast and with the kings of the earth that make battel against him and is so farr from peace with them as he giueth vnto all the fowles of heauen for to eat the flesh of the Kings hie captayns the flesh of mighty men and of horses and those that sit on them the flesh of all freemen and bondmen of small and great and casteth the beast into the lake of fyre By this may appear that Christ is no head of such Antichristians nor of any other profane wicked worldlings seing his spirith giues them not life and motion but they are caried by the spirit of Satan that possesseth them and warred against with the sword that commeth out of Christs mouth neyther can they be knit vnto him by ioynts or bands as al his body and members thereof ar consequently that the Popish and profane multitude of the Realme of England which at Q. Maries death were made and esteemed a Church and they and their seed euer since without separation so continewing and at this day al the notorious wicked stâ—ll commingled with the rest that this Church cannot be sayd to haue Christ for the head neyther is it his body Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the mediator and Aduocate of the same For it is written there is one God on mediator between God man which is the man Christ Iesus and if any man sinne we haue an Aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust Neyther is there saluation in any other for among men there is giuen no other name vnder heaven whereby we must be saued Act. 4.12 But the Church of England hath not Christ for the mediator and Advocate of the same Because Christ is not Mediator of any other couenant or testament then that which God promised by his prophits to make with the house of Israel nor of any other people then of such as are vnder that couenant promised which was g that he would put his law in their inward parts or mind and write it in their harts and be would be their God and they should be his people and that he would forgiue their iniquity and remember their sinns no more Of this new testament or couenant established vpon better promises then was the old is Christ the Mediator as the Apostle teacheth and not of any other humane or profane couenant made by or among the sonns of Adam Now that the Church of England as it is publickly and generally constituted is not as yet come vnder this covenant may appear by the â—articular conditions of the same First let the exceeding profanenes and irreligion irreligion that is among them the open contempt of God blaspheming of hâ—s name despising of his word and innumerable wicked acts without fear or shame committed besides the idolatrous false worship performed by all in their publick assemblies according to their stinted popish leitoargie learned and receiued from the Romane Antichrist let these I say and the like speake to euery christian conscience whither Gods law be written in the mind or inward parts of such which is one part of the coâ—enant whereof Christ is Mediator and which grace he promised by his Prophets to bestow vpon his Church and people when he shoâ—ld be their God and when the grace of God that bringeth saluation vnto all men did appear it taught so much Secondly that thâ—s church of England hath no promise that their sins and iniqâ—ities are forgiuen which is an other part of the couenant appeareth by their impenitency in this euill estate For the profane scoff at repentance and scorne all admonition they despise wisdomes counsel and such as reproue they turne agayne and rent them And for the idolatries and false worship of the whole the great iniquities in the hierarchie ministery orders rites ceremonies c they are farr from repentaÌ„ce whâ—ch wil here no reproof nor suffer any to speak against their corruptions but haue generally agreed and decreed such to be excommunicated as shall affirme any of these things to be wicked or idâ—latrous and they that would call them to repentance for their sinns or refuse to communicate with them in these euils are persecuted imprisoned banished and haue long suffred at their hands many calamities And all people are forced by fayr and colourable pretenses or by threatning and punishments to walk still in these sinns Thus want they the foundation of repentance from dead works and consequently of faith towards God for without repentance there is no promise of pardon without promise ther can be no faith and without faith no couenant or testâ—ment confirmeâ— with them or their seed as all the scriptures shew if no Couenanâ— then also no Mediator Thirdly that the summe of the Couenant namely I will be their God and thâ—y shall be my people is wantinâ— also vnto these may be seen by theâ—r estate compared with th' Apostles doctrine who vpon this promâ—se â—resently inferreth a commâ—ng out and separation of themselues from the world if they would haue the Lord to receiue them Which separation from the vngodly as it was not at the first constituting of this Church obserued so vnto this day it is resisted and pleaded against and the holy scriptures vnsufferable abused to mayteyn a confuse mixed multitude of all sorts of people to be a true church But Christ is no Mediator for such a mixture as himself sayd to his Father I pray not for the world but for them which thou hast giuen me for thâ—y are thinâ— and they are not of the world as I am not of the world Fourthly the Church of England is not vnder this coâ—enanâ— because every euery couenant is made vpon conditions wllingly agreed and assented vnto on both parties as was in that couenant made between God and the Israelâ—tes of old For God being a sâ—irit must be couenanted wâ—th worshipped in spirit he requireth the hart and minde which if it be not freely giuen him all relâ—gion is in vayn But this harty and willing submission foretold to be and seen in Gods people heretofore was not seen in this Church which was by law of man compelled not by loue of Christ constreyned to enter into this communion and religion at the beginning of Q Elis reign as in the former argument is shewed Such complusion vnto religion where God perswadeth not the hart maketh men hypocrites not true christians which not onely Gods word but even lâ—ght of reason teacheth as Themistius a Philosoâ—her acknowledged when he sayd
guilty of the body and blood of Chrâ—st as were the wretcheâ— that crucified hâ—m Also Baptisme which should be an ingraffing into Christ his death buriall and resurrection and a sâ—gne of washing away mens sinns in his blood is giuen to the seed of the vngodly blasphemers and enemies of Christ vnto whom by no right it doth apperteyn Which sacrilegious prophanation of the holy misteries sheweth a manifest contempt of Christ represented in them who as he communicateth not himselfe with such wicked persons so neyther the signes and seales of himselfe and the redemption that he wrought for his elect For by his suffring he consecrated them onely that are sanctified that by faith doe eat his flesh and drinke his â—lood the wicked which haue no portion in his death and oblation when they participate in these seales of grace doe but eat and drink iudgment to themselues the ministers which so prostitute Christ vnto the teeth of his enemies and tread vnder foot the sonne of God if they repent not shall not escape his hand whâ—ch sayd Vengeance is myne I will repay the people which by an imaginary separation are or seem to be sundred from those profane and yet communicate together in such things doe even by that action shew that they are one body with them for so it is written we that are many are one bread and one body because we all are partakers of one bread 1 Cor 10 17. This bringing of Satans seed into the church unto the alter of God may further be minded as a high degree of violating the second commandement whereby all images idols and simillitudes whatsoeuer of the Diuils or mens inuention or forming are seuerely forbidden to bee brought into Gods howse or vsed in his worship Now such images or Idols are these wicked persons For as children are the images of their parents and all faâ—thfull people called the children of God are Gods liuely images in Christ whose image and simillitude they carry himselfe being truely and properly the sole image of the invisible God his Father and they all being borne a new of him are changed into the same image from glory to glory as by the spirit of the Lord being renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created them so Satans children as wicked worldlings be called in scripture are his liuely images hauing lost the first image of God wherein they were created and into the image of the Serpent are changed dayly by his spirit that ruleth in them and him they represent in his malycious nature and actions As it is sinne and so esteemed to haue images and representations of beasts of fowles of fishes c. brought into the church and worship of God so would and wel might it be esteemed more horrible if in any Christian congregation there should be brought in pictures of the Diuill or other like helish representations Yet men will not see the horror of this sinne that the liuing images and pictures of the Serpent even wicked and profane people his seed and children should be brought into the Church and worship of God to haue part and interest in Christ and his couenant whether he will or not to be offred vnto God layd vpon his alter for spiriritual sacrifices though they be much more abominable then vnclean beasts were vnder the law as the substance or figured thing is more then the figure and shadow But doubtlesse God who abhorreth all idols and religious images of humane devise and Christ who would not offer the bloody sacrifices of idolaters abhorreth this confusion of Satans images within his church neyther will the high-priest after the order of Melchisedek offer such to his Father or be priest vnto them Otherwise he should not be so faithfull in the house of God as wâ—s Aaron nor the sacrifice of the Gospel be so holy as the shadowes of the law which were vnblemished Finally all that haue Christ for their Prâ—est are by him to bring their sacrifices for their sinns vnto God that so attoÌ„emeÌ„t may be made through his intercession For every high Prâ—est is ordeyned for men in things perteyning to God that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sinnes and every man is appoynted of God to present his sacrifice by the Priest who is to make attonement for him concerning his sinne that it may be forgiuen him But the church of England in asmuch as it persisteth in sinne and will not repent of the many transgressions dayly committed in their publick worship and aâ—ministration of holy things refuseth reconciliation by him who is the high Prâ—est of good things to come and able perfectly to saue them that come vnto God by him This their impenitency appeareth not onely by their perseverance in evill doinâ— notwithstanding all the aâ—monitions and reproofs that haue sounded in theyr eares these many yeares but aboue al by their vngodly Canons constitutions made by the whole representatiue chuch of Engl and submitted vnto by the rest of the people Whereby they publish vnto all the world how they are hardned in their evils that excommunicate pâ—nish and persecute all that sâ—eak against or refuse to communicate with their people prelacie priesthood worship ceremonies c. wherein are so many sinns and idolatries For asmuch then as the publick seruice and sacrifice of this church is idolatrous the holy mysteries of Christ profaned the people vnsanctified and their sinns vnrepented of there is no word or promise in scripture that Christ is the Priest or sacrificer of such worship or worshippers Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true church of God hath Christ for the King thereof For of him the Father sayth I haue set my King vpon Zion my holy mountayn and he must râ—ign till he hath put all his enemies vnder his feet and shall sit vpoÌ„ the throne of Dauid vpon his kingdome to order it and to establish it with judgement and with justice from henceforth even for ever Isa. 9.7 But the church of England hath not Christ for the King thereof first because it hath not these officers which he hath appoynted to gouerne his church vnder him namely Pastors Teachers and Elders but in stead of them it hath the hierarchie or Prelacye of Antichrist Archbishops Lord Bishops Chaneâ—llors Archdeacons Commissaries c. who reign or tyrannize ouer the sowles of men by their vnlawfull jurisdiction ruling ouer many Churches making them constitutions and canons prescribing them words both for prayer and doctrine summoning censuring censuring excommunicating absoluing both priests and people making and deposing ministers giuing the holy Ghost excercising also civill offices in the common wealth and carying the titles both of Christ and of the Gods the Magistrates into whose places they intrude‘ hauing no warrant for their spirituall Lordships in the
by it Rome had been kept agaiâ—st 〈◊〉 and â—ther â—neâ—ies and that therefore Rome had got the Empâ—râ— of all provinces and parts of the world because it worshiped and served 〈◊〉 â—oâ—s that were in the wâ—rld even the vnknown Gods also I would wish you therefore to minde better ground for the truth of religion and remeâ—ber what is written of the ancient Babylonians after their victories Thâ—n shall they take courage transgresse and doe wickedly imputing this their power vnto their Gods Habak 1.11 2. The long continuance of the gâ—spel among you will make the more agaâ—nst you at the day of your accounts because you yeld no better obedience to the gospell as your present idolatrous estate sheweth The gospell was among the men of the old world 120 yeares taught by Noah a preacher of righteousnes yet at last they perished by the stood for their disobedience therefore though it hath been with you about halfe that time you also â—ay perish if you repent not But note you take it for granted which is yet to be proued that the gospel is among you whereas the true peachâ—ng and practise thereof you cannot endure The sound of the Gosâ—el by thâ— fâ—et of them that puplish peace is this Thy God o Sion reignetâ— â— Iudah keep thy solemne feasts perforrme thy vowes for the wicked shall no more passe through thee he is utterly out off Isa. 52 7 Nahum 1.15 with Rom. 10 15. but Christ reigneth not yet among you by his own officers and lawâ—s as hath been confeâ—sed by the best of your Ministers you keep the solâ—mn feasts of Antâ—christ as your Christmas Câ—nâ—elinas Hâ—lloâ—â—as Eaâ—â—â—r and many the like and the wicked at still in the midds of you and wâ—lk on eâ—ery side yea are exalted which Daâ—id saith is a forme for the sons of mâ—n Psal. 12.8 3. The strange iudgâ—â—nts on â—nimies and persecutors are good warnings for you that you persecute your bâ—ethren no longer we haue seen minded some vpon no mean men â—mong you but wish not to see more we rather desire the conuersion of our enimâ—es 4. The power and blessing in casting out Diuils though it may be questioned whether it be so or no in your Church is a thing that the Papists can boast of more then you See their late supplication 37. reason of religion Secondly such Diuils as are said to dwel in Babylon Reu. 18 2. we playnly see you haue no power to cast out 3 I would wish you to remember the words of Christ Many will say to me in that day Lord Lord haue we not by thy name proâ—hesied and by thy name cast out diuils c. and then will I professe to them I neuer knew you depart from me ye that work iniquity Mat. 7.22.23 5 For your prayer heard both in spiritual and earthly things take heed you deceiu not your selues many years haue you prayed fasted for your discipline and pretended reformation but how you haue bene heard your present state sheweth As for earthly things if God giue them vnto you it is no sound proof that he approueth your praiers much lesse your church Some evil mens eyes stand out for fatnes they haue more then the hart desireth but their wealth is not in their hand there forâ— the councel of the wicked be farr from me God heard the praier of the King of the Philistims Gen 20.4.6 he answered at the sacrifices of the sooth sayer Balaam Num 23 3 4 15 16. c shal we think God therefore allowed of their religion Againe what people in the world is not perswaded and will not say that God heareth their praiers EueÌ„ the hethens would boast thus of their false Gods as Iulian protested that Aesâ—ulapius had often healed him being sick and Ovid that he had often seen Iupiters anger appeased with incense c. See you not then that as the Saincts when they walk vpright before the Lord haue assurance and sound comfort thereby that be heareth their praiers which they make according to his will so hipocrites and ethniks haue also their false perswasions that their praiers are heard and vaine comforts according Vaunt not therefore of your praiers being â—eard so long as you doe works which are to be abhorred but remember how it â—s written whosoâ—uer we ask we receiue of God because wâ— keâ—p his 〈◊〉 and doe those things that are pleasing in his sight Heb. 3.21 6. Your throwing down the church of Antichrist and building the church of God by â—reaching c. is according to the prouerb Clowdes and wind without 〈◊〉 Let your brethren be witnesses Of the first they say Antichrist raigneth amongst you Of the latter that as yet you are scarse come to 〈…〉 a church rightly reformed and againe that the wals of Sion he euen with the ground Yet now you vaunt of throwing down Antichâ—â—â—â—s â—hurâ—h and building Gods The Martyrs in Q Maries daies did indeed by their faithfull testimonies and patient suffrings throw downe a great part of Antichrist church but sithence that time what haue you doen unlesse it hath been to repayr Iericho For many grosse abuses which those Martyrs abhorred are now stâ—fly mainteyned and practised in your church but farther theÌ„ they went haue you not stepped a foot if some of your inferiour ministerie haue spokeÌ„ or writteÌ„ against a few foolish ceremonies yet others of your chiefest ministers haue written as much for them that what superstition your church pulleth downe with the left hand it setteth vp with the right The Prelates and their side haue written against you that seek reformation of Babel and they both haue set against vs that make separation from Babel and yet you heer offer to our consideration how you haue builded Sion But the Lord wil visit both you your building then shall your reword be according to your works In the end you ease yoâ—r stomach against vs as they that throw downe Gods church raise dissention with many moe greeuous calumniations which in your distempered affection you throw forth More wisdome and much more modestie had it been if you had spared these reproches til you had convinced vs of such things But I see how your zele did carie you Ezekiah threw downe the idolatrous places in Israel and reduced the people vnto Gods true worship 2 Chro 31.1.2 c. 30.1.2 c. Rabsaketh reproched him for this as hauing done sacrilege against his own God Isa. 36.7 We by the word of our testimonie throw downe your idolatrous high places superstitions ceremonies false worship and mâ—nisterâ—e you charge vs wâ—th throwing downe Godâ—s church and lode vs with many criminations But it is your selues that trouble Israel for doe we â—eproue you for any good thing in doctrine or practise or haue we left any truth that is among you And if by our testimonie of the gospel dissâ—ntion be raysed and your church rent the
of al men by that word if men eyther will not trie nor giue sentence at all or doe judge amisse we are not bound to wayt vpon them but must liue by our own faith The reformed churches haue been wrâ—â—ten to by vs for we know and acknowledge them to be true churcheâ— and our brethren in the Lord they giue vs no Answer Shall wee coÌ„tinew still â—n boÌ„dage to Antichrâ—st til they bid vs com out What scripture teacheth vs so If they or any convince vs of error or evill and we yeeld not leâ— vs be esteemed accordingly otherwise if we walke in the truth and they will not approue it be it vpon them as they shal answer befâ—re the Lord. Mr. Iunius whom you mention to reply so sharply neyther approueth your Church nor condemneth our practice no not though he were instantly vrged the writings between him and us are extant to the world let the reader judge what both sides haue sayd Your censure of Mr Barrow or scoffing rather at him neyther hurteth him or vs nor helpeth you His playn dealing in reprouing the corruptions of these times you call rayling it is marvel you say not also the prophets rayled on the people of Israel when they vsed sharp rebukes for I suppose you can hardly shew any hard speech that Mr. Barrow ther writeth which the Prophets and Apostles haue not vsed before But if he were overcaried with some seuere speeches in a good cause‘ neyther we not himselfe euer iustified that infirmitie we know that we are frayl men let the sharpnesse therefore be his but the trueth which he sharply teacheth Gods And why carp you at the manner of his writing and meddle not with the matter That book with others haue discouered the idolatries of your church which neyther by you nor any haue euer yet been answered refuted by the scriptures For your self let the reader iudge what you â—aue sayd The 7 Consideration 7. THe great and grosse disorder and partiallity in administring of your disciplinâ— which George Iohnson sheweth cheerly besides the wants of sunctimony and common duties of godlynes which he sayth are to be found in farr greater measure in the câ—mmâ—n professâ—rs of the church of England and saith further that the Dutch churches take you for a most vnquiet conâ—entious and disorderly people Answer THis article you obiect vnto vs vpon one mans report that was for lying and slandering false accusation and contention himselfe cast out of our Church By what rule or word of God can you admit of the testimony of an excommunicate against a whole congregation Reason also might teach you that no man standing against a church to excommunication will ever speake wel of that church in the cause wherein he standeth But grant that this all were true which he reporteth what would you vrge vpon it that therefore Christianitie which we professe is evill so perhaps a Turk or Iew would doe with as much reason as you can conclude that our separation from you is euill Was there ever any truth think you that men did walke in it as they ought or any Church in the world wherein the discipline as you call it was administred as it should Iulian the Apostata that wrote so much against Christ reading the testimonies of Moses the Prophets and Apostles Deut. 9.7.22.24 Isa. 59 3 4 5 c. Mic. 3.9.11 1. Cor. 5.1.2 11.21.22 c. 3 Iohn 9.10 had as good ground to blame the Israelites and Christians for their manners discipline and consequently to disswade them from their faith as you do vs yea he might allege faithfull and vndeniable witnesses whereas you rely vpon a slanderer Finally what ayme you at in all this but to draw vs back vnto your church and there it is like we shall find discipline without disorder or partiallity to weet in your Bishops courts for there the discipline of your church is to be seen Of which we need say nothing the voyce almost of al the land crieth out of their abominations Onely we obserue how pregnant your perswasions are to make vs beleeu that because there ar sinns in Sion there be none in Babylon The 8 Consideration 8. GOD neuer witnessed for you nor gaue testimony of his approuing your separation whether we consider your ministerie or people For hardly can you shew any one person conuerted by your ministery from papistry or atheisme or other open wickednes as by Gods blessing multitudes haue been by ours but onely haue you seduced and wrought vpon the tender consciences of such as by our ministery were first begotten vnto Christ But which is specially to be obserued from your distracted and devided congregations multitudes haue fallen away to euery kind of impiety herisie reigning in the world Answer IF God approue our seperation and our ministerie by his word as we are surâ— he dooth it is yenoâ—gh though our ministery haue not conuerted any Your reason is as if a Câ—inite should haâ—e sayd vnto Nâ—ah God neuer witneâ—sed for thee nor gaue testimony of his approuing thy building of the Ark for hardly canst thou shew any one person converted by thy precahing or Ark building these 120. yeares Our ministery belongeth to our church the assemblies whereof Papists Athâ—ists such like wicked ones vse not to frequent and how is it poâ—sible â—ur ministery should conuert such as come not to heare it If we wâ—â—ld obiect vnto you that few Turks and Saracens haue been converred by yâ—ur mâ—â—isterie what would you answer Yet where you say â—e can harâ—ly shâ—w my c. we can if need wer shew you many that wer sometime profâ—in irreligious whiles they were of your church but coÌ„mâ—ng and heâ—râ—ng by Gods providence the doctrine of our church haue been reclâ—ymed from their lewd life doe walk holily in the faith with vs. It is true in â—eed that our cause hath wrought most vpoÌ„ such as being somtimes vnâ—er yoâ—r ministery had tender consciences pliable to the truth others of more corrupt consciences haue set against blasphemed it Tâ—e â—â—â—â—ideratioâ— of this in any wise mans iudgment wil rather lead vnto â—hen â—rom our cause when the better sort by your own confession do come vnto vs the worser and refuse remayn stil with you Your last poynt which you would haue specially to be obserued that multitudes haâ—e fallen from vs to every kind of heresie and impietie is indeed worthy to be obserued For first the scripture is fulfilled which sayth mâ—ny shâ—ll â—leaue vnto them faynedly Dan. 11.34 Secondly being fallen if they had com to a more holy faith better walking wheÌ„ they were gone out from vs it might haue importeâ— ours to be evil but now that they haue fallen to grosse heresie impietie it argueth Gods hand so be heavy vp on them because they continued not in the truth with vs. And this the scripture confirmeth saying of such as receiue not the loue of the truth
their dutie Gods word teacheth uâ— tâ—at â—f a man walke in any one sinne though he doe not all he shal nâ—t liue but die the deâ—th Ezek. 18 11 13. Wâ—en Gibeah was giuen oveâ— to the Sinne of Sodom if the Priests and prophets should haue preached against idolatrie swearing breaking of the Sabbath and such like evils and not against that particular filthynes which the people followed should they haue preached repentance truly When Israel followed Iereboams calues at Dan and Bethel if the ministers then had preached against Sodoâ—ie whordome drunkennes and the like and not cried out aâ—ainst that present idol worship but pleaded rather for it shâ—uld they haue tâ—uâ—ht repenatnce truly Even thus it is with your best minâ—sterâ— they will thâ—â—deâ— out in their pulpits against Popery and idolâ—try in â—eâ—erâ—ll aâ—ainst theft whordome prâ—de coueteousnes and mâ—â—y oâ—her iâ—qâ—â—â—ieâ— but the sinne which cleaueth so fast to the bones of â—oâ—r Church tâ—e heynous enormities in Gods worship amongst you these they meddle not with neither vpon payn of excommunicatiâ—â— draw the people to repentance for them as after I will further shew Perhaps now and then they will glance at the Bps. or some other corruptions but bring the people from vnder these iniquities they doe not nay they plead for them rather and cry oâ—t vpon vs which haue forsaken so grosse abâ—minations Now there being no notice giuen by the ministers or taken by the people of the siâ—ns wherein they liue the other two parts of true reâ—entance doe also fail among you for farr you be from confessing your sins which though you offer the sacrifice of fools yet will you not know that you doe evill and most farr from amending them when with so high a hand you doe maintain them although the testimonie and sâ—ffrings of vs your disâ—ised and persecuted brethren against them haue sounded in your eares now manâ—e a day Thus teach they not repentance aright As for faith it cannot be sound and true where it hath not ground oâ— the couenant and promise of God Gods couenant and â—romise of saluation you haue not without repentance as Christ sayd Except ye repent you shall all likewise pâ—rish for surely God will wound the hairie â—ate of him that walketh in his sinnes To preach faith therefore and aâ—ply iustification by faith to an vnrepentant people is to â—rofane that holy doctrine and turne the grace of God into licentâ—ousnes But to giue the seales of the righteousnes of faith baptisme and the Lords supper to the wicked blasphemers irreligious and to their seed it is a sinne of sinâ— for which your ministers shall giue an heauy account to Christ at his appearing as haue counted the â—recious blood of his testament an vnholiâ— thing and washed and fed therewith eâ—en doggs and swine as the scripture calleth such vngodly â—ersons And thus you haue not truly taught among you eyther repâ—ntance from dead works or faith towards God which are the doctrine of the beginning of Christ and the very foundation as the Apostle saith I will now also compare the practise of the Apostles in the placâ— which you cite with yours that the reader may see how your right eye is blinded to bring scripture so playn against your selues In Act. 2 37 c the manner of gathering and planting that church‘ is thus described There was first the word preached by the Apostles verse 14 c which being heard pricked the harts of the â—eople verse 37. there was repentance taught not for adultery theft worshiping of Idols oâ— the like whereof it may be that people was not knowen to be guilty but for their particular trespasse in refusing of Iesus Christ into whose name they must be baptised if they would be saued verse 38 then followed a playn separation from such as frowardly resisted the truth vers 40 and none were baptised or ioyned to the church but such as gladly receiued the word verse· 41. After this followed a contâ—newing notwithstanding the imminent peril of trouble and persecution for the truth sake in the Apostles doctrâ—ne and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayerâ— verse 42 If you had walked in this primitiue churches steps you should before the constituting of your Church haue preached vnto the poor ignorant and idolatrous Papists which was the generall face of the land at Q Maries death repentance for their sinns in all their idolatries wâ—ll worships and superstitions subiection to Antichrist his prelacie priesthood and gouernment c. To such as had their harts pricked with your doctrine you should haue shewed the true way of the Gospel faith and holy walking therein You should haue taughâ— them a separation from the profane and obstinate and haue gathered into the Church such onely as gladly receiued the word and with them you should haue walked in a holy communion and practise of Christs ordinances thâ—ugh Princes and Parlâ—aments thoâ—gh men and Angels should haue forbidden threatned you for it Thus had your church beeÌ„ the daughter of thâ—t mother church in Ierâ—salem whereas now by neglecting this patterne and reteyning the Popish confuse multitude and a great part of their ministery and worship you haue imitated Bâ—bylon â—e mother of fornications aâ—d â—re as vnlike Sion as you are like your selues The objection which you feared and therefore would prevent with answer is yet of more weight then will be eased by your syllogisme the aâ—sumption whereof I deny For the true constituting of a Church by the word perached callâ—ng men to a willing holy covenant with God sepâ—ratinâ— them from the wayes of Satan Antichrist his false idoatrâ—â—s worship priesthood and government vniting them togither in the comâ—union of the true faith and bond of loue and peace which ar the controuersies between you and vs these poynts are cleerly set down in scriptures to the vnderstandâ—ng of the spirituall as the history of all the Bible and the practâ—se of the Apostles and primitiue churhes already alleged doe plainely shew and I am sure you will not deny but they were spirituall Whereas you would â—roue they are not clearely set downe to the vnderstand of the spirituall because thowsands of ministers and people of the churâ—h of Englâ—nd are of contrary iudgment to vs first we haue many testimonies of your own minâ—sters for the things that we defend against you as in this and other books we haue manifested Secondly if we had no such testimony yet what doe you but make your selues iudges in your own cause that though we bring never so playn evidence against you from the word yet if you see it not or wil not see it must not be needful for saluation More vnsound and popish doctrine hath seldome been taught But I leaue vpoÌ„ you the saying of Christ vnto the Pharisees If you â—ere blinde ye should not haue sinne but now ye say WE SEE therefore your sin remayneth Iohn 9 11. And whereas
before is obsâ—rued That onely Sayncts that is a people forsaking all known sinne of which they mâ—y be conuinced doing all the known will of God increasing and abiding euer thrâ—â— are the onely matter of a visiâ—le church Thâ—s Position I deâ—ey and disclaym also the errors which he gathereth from â—t and therefore will spend no time in answering it but refer Mr Ben to them that haue so spoken or writen if any be This we hold 〈◊〉 let vs se what Mr Bernard can say against it that Saincts by calling are the onely mater of a true visible church Yet withall we hold that â—any be calleâ— but few chosen That â—he power of Christ that is authority to preach to administer the sacramâ—â—â—s and to exercise the censures of the Church belongeth to the whole Châ—rch yea to euery one of them And not the principall members thereof This opinion he calleth the A b c of Brownisme but he may put it if he please in the Criss-crosse rew of Bernardisme he himselfe being the first that I euer heard to vtter such a position This point he much vrgeth and â—relleth vs with he mentoned it in his Forâ—speech to the Reader thus Thâ— Paâ—ist sayth Christs ruling power is in the Pope nay sayth the Protestant iâ— is in the ecclestasticall gouernours Bishops may sayth the Puritan it is in the Presbyterte nay sayth the Brownist it is in the body of the Congregation the multitude called the Church And in this beginneth Brownâ—sme c. Here first I require of Mr Bern. that he produce his autors and shew the book or writing where we haue auouched such things He tells his reader of all the errors that he châ—rgeth vs with that we hold cannot deny them being already auouched vnder our hands and that he will not wrong vs in setting them down c. Yet durst he not as every honest writer writer in suâ—h controuersies vse to doe anâ— if he doe not in his next the reader may estâ—em of his truth and honesty as it is Next for the poynt it selfe I answer Christs ruling power which the Papists say is in the Pope we say not as this man calumniateth vs that it is in the body of the Congregation the multitude but in Christ himselfe and that the Pope is Antichrist not for taking into his hands the power of the mulâ—itude but of Chrâ—st to rule and gouern the church as Head of the same Agayn Christs ruling power which the Protestants say is in the Bishops the Prelates we doe not say it is in the multitude but in Christ himselfe for he onely is Lord of the Church he onely is Archbishop or Chief pastor he only walketh among the seuen golâ—en Candlesticks as Ouerseer of the seuen châ—rches ruling them by his lawes canâ—ns and decrees Whereas the Bishops of England are sâ—irituall Lords and one is Archâ—ishop and Primate over all they rule many châ—rches and minâ—sters makâ— new canons and decrees in their Conuocatiâ—n howse prescrâ—be formes and words of prayer and of preaching by their leiturgie and homilies and other like spirituall jurisdiction apperteynâ—ng to Chrâ—st alone thus are they very Antichrâ—sts and to â—ther with their exorbitant usurped power ought vtterly to be abolished out of all Chriâ—tâ—an churches Neyther that ruling power of Christ which the Pâ—ritans whereby I suppâ—se Mr Bern. meaneth the Christian reformeâ— churches in other couÌ„tries say is in the Presbitery doe we say is in the multitude for we acknowledge Christ to haue ordeyned a Presbitâ—ry or Eldership and that in every church for to teach and rule them by his own word and lawes vnto whome all the multitude the members the Sainâ—ts ought to obey and submit themselâ—es as the scriptures teach And for the particular branches of this 6. Error that Mr Bernard chargeth vs with That the power of Christ that is authority to prâ—ach belongeth to the whole church yeâ— to every one of them c. we deny it aâ— he setts it doâ—n and for the help of tâ—e reader whome he abuseth will distinctly set down our opinion The word of God is giuen to all and every member of the Church to read and exercise priuately but publickly in the Church there is a double vse 1 in prophesie and 2 in office as the Apostle distinguisheth The office of teaching is layd vpon some few chosen ordeyned therevnto Into this office may no man intrude or vsurp it without a lawfull calling This we haue long since published as a paâ—t of our faith Confess Art 19.20.21 Teaching in way of prophesie which the Apostle treateth of 1 Cor 14 is absolutely vs lawfull for all women in thâ— church but men so many as haue the gift and ability from God may all proâ—hesie one by one of which poynt see our Conâ—â—ss Art 34. And this is that we hold concerning preaching which whether it be an error and Mr Bern. hath so proued it let the indifferent reader judge For the second poynt authority to administer the sacraments that it shoâ—ld belong to euery one of thâ— church we vtterly deney and maruell at Mr Bernards vnconscionable dealing with vs for in oâ—r Confession he coâ—ld not but see vnlesse he winked this plainely expressed no sacraments to be administred vntill the Pastors or Teachers be chosen and ordeyned intâ—â—heir office The third and last that euery one hath authority to execute the censures of the church we also deny but hold that euery member hath authority to rebâ—ke hâ—s brother for sinne and if he repent to forgiue him if not to take wâ—tneâ—â—es if yet he repent not to tel it to the church which church hath Christs power to iudge all within the same and cast out from among them all wicked men Now that every one hath not this power nor yet any member or members apart we haue plainly signified in our Conâ—â—ssiâ—n Art 24. If this be an error in Mr Bernards account let him by the scriptures confute it not onely in vs but in a principall minister of his own châ—rch D Fâ—lk who hath written that the keyes of the kingdome of hâ—auen whatsoeuer they are be committed to the whol church and not to one pâ—â—soÌ„ only as Câ—â—rian Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and al the ancient Doctors agreaâ—ly oâ—ly to the scriptures doe confesse So then for popular gouernment which Mr Bern. would traduce vs by we hold it not we approue it not for if the multitude gouern then who shal be gouerned Christian liberty which all haue is one thing the raynes of gouernment which some haue is another thing Now how farr tâ—e peoples right and liberty and benefit thereby eytendeth would require a larged scourse to shew which is not my purpose here It is ye noâ—gh to mainfest the iniquity of this aduersary who would father such errâ—rs on vs dealing like his predecessors the Papists who in this weise
are there thowsands and ten thowsands dwelling among them that neyther so professe nor are members of their churches But if it were granted that the publicke writings articles canons c. are to be esteemed the faith profession of all Engl. yet we deny them to make profession of the true faith for their Seruice book homilies book of Ordination with the impious canons confirming all the Romish idolatries Antichristian clergie and ceremonies that are among them excommunicating ipso facto all that speake against them this is no true Christian profession whatsoeuer other truthes are mixed with them For as the Papists holding many good grounds of religion in generall yet by other additions and contradictions do ouerthrow the truth so is it in England as before in this treatise and in many others hath been proued and after shall further appear Whereas these Ministers confidently deny that their church accounteth any one for her childe or member that doth not professe the faith of Christ in some measure it is nothing but a vayn flourish For was there euer such grossnes in the deepest gulfe of Popery as to deney Christ utterly and not to professe him in some measure Nay it could not be the throne of Antichrist vnlesse he did professe Christ. It is wel known none are baptised among the Papists but they professe the very same faith that is now professed at the baptisme in Engl. namely that which they call th' Apostles Creed So then what haue these godly ministers sayd more then the simplest papist in the world could haue sayd for his church Now in that they make this a colour as if the profane and wicked were not accounted children of the church they shew themselues to be the snare of a fowler in al their wayes yet set they a snare so slight that euery man may breake it For who knowes not that there be multitudes of profane and wicked persons in the land Who knowes not that the whole land generally is baptised Yea the baptisiing of the seed of the most wicked is not onely practised but befended in print by their late Archbishop D. Whitg who pleaded what if it be the child of a dronkard or of an harlâ—t what if the Parents be papists what if they be heretiks c. shall not their children be baptised Yes he will haue it to be a common passage for all uile persons Good and euil sayth he clean and vnclean holy and profane must needs passe by it And at baptisme their seruice book teacheth the priest to say of euery one we receiue this child into the congregation of Christs flock Being thus receiued not one of a thowsand wicked persons are euer excommunicated but are fostered in the church vntill their death and then the priest is taught agayn to say that it hath pleased God to take vnto himselfe the sowle of their dear brother there departed and so he committeth his body to the ground in sure and certayn hope of resurrection to eternal life This being the generall state of the land as all men know what dissemblers are these Ministers to intimate as if their church acknowledged not the open wicked for her children and members Mr Gifford when tyme was yeilded farr otherweise I confesse sayth he that our church if ye vnderstand the whole assembly is ful of al wicked vices There are a number among vs which are of your brood speaking to a â—apist whâ—se euill life is seen wel yenough there arâ— a very great number of meer worldlings which doe not greatly esteem any religion although they seem now because of lawes to allow and fauour our side c. Now hauing sayd somewhat for themselues such as it is they cauil at our description of a church when we say that it is a company of faithfull people that truely worship Christ and reaâ—â—ly obey him This say these Ministers is vtterly vntrue if it be understood of the visible church This is strange What would they haue vs describe the Church to be a company of infidels or a company of faithfull and of infidels togither when Paul teacheth that there is no communion between such 2 Cor 6.14.15 or should we say a people that falsely worship Christ Indeed if so we held we might wel returne to their Church of England for there is false worship more then yenough The Apostle writing to the visible church of Ephesus calleth them Saincts and thâ— faithfull in Christ Iesus Wil they say that this also was utterly untrue Their own Articles of religion in England say thus the visible church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull people c. and is this also vttâ—rly vntrue But let vs hear their reason why this should be vntruth For say they if euery one that the church may account a visible member be truely faithfull how is our Sauiour to be vnderstood when he compareth the churâ—h or ministery thereof to a draw net gathering aswel that which must be cast away as good fish c. Me thinks these godly ministers f should be ashamed so to depraue not onely our meaning but our very words that when we say of faithfull people that truely worship they wil turne and transâ— lace them to truely faithfull and then gather as afterwards they doe as if men may not account any to be members of the church by their outward profession vnlâ—sse they know them to haue true faith which the Lord onely is able to disâ—â—rne Could any reasonable man thus construe our words or gather from them vnlesse he purposely would depraue especially knowing as these men know wel our constant witnesse otherweise who esteeme of all men by their outward profession and walking and haue long since published in our Confussion that many hypocrites will lurke in the church whiles it is on earth But thus it pleased these men to abuse vs before the simple reader Their third reason for their church is that they hold teach and maynteyn every part and article of Gods holy truth which is fundamentall The proof of this they would haue to be seen in their Confessions Catechisnes and Articles of religion published and approued of in their church This reason is like if not the very same with the former which sâ—ake also of professing the true faith as was to be seen in their Confâ—sâ—â—â—n Apologie Articles What meane these ministers to cloy their reader so ofteÌ„ with one dish of meat a little diuertly dressed It is doubtlesse for want of better store Yet this whâ—ch they bring is very vnsauoury for it is not seasoned with the salt of Gods couenant First for that poynt of fâ—ndamentall truth which they so long haue stood vpon and coâ—ld neuâ—r be gotten distinctly to shew what truth is fundamental and what not we haue now these ministers resolute judgement of it thus The onely fundamental truth in religion is this That Iesus Christ the Son of
people had in Babylon But that I suppose will not satisfie you but it was you will say by your church and ministerie Therefore I distinguish and consider of conscience in generall and in particular General lie when men so farr as they are taught and see doe walke carefullie this I confesse we had through Gods grace by means of your church this also I acknowledge many among you haue walking conscionably so farr as they see and know The same I am perswaded also of many Papists and other misbeleeuers But as a conscionable Papist or Anabaptist when a further light of the Gospel ariseth vnto him must leaue that church wherein his conscience was so farr informed because it is not the true church of God so must a conscionable Protestant doe with your church when God giueth him to see the false estate wherein you stand although you worke many good effects in a mans hart and conscience Particularly a good conscience is to be considered in this or that particular action as for example in this particular of our separation and so we had not this good conscience from or by your church or ministenistery for you thought to corrupt our consciences and keep vs still in Babylon we had not I say this good conscienâ—e by your meanes vnlesâ—e it be by accident and against your wils and so no thanke vnto you as he that would haue kild his enemie and vnawares cured him of an impostume thus indeed many of vs haue been brought to this good coâ—science of separation For whereas heretofore many of your ministers vnawares haue discouered the vnlawfulnes of the prelacie priesthood leitourgie and other enormities of your church wee haue herevpon thought how it could be the church of Christ which thus lay vnder Antichrist and pressing you with your own doctrines we haue found that you cannot but eyther goe from that whâ—ch before you taught or elâ— yeeld vs our separation which you so earnestly condemn Of which thing there is before spoken in this treatise THe third question is How haue thâ—y sought and sufficiently endeauoured our healing and til they haue done all that possible can be done for our healing how dare they forsake vs I answer we haue sought your healing euen as by your own doctrin the faithfull Iewes sought the cure of Babel and as you selues haue soâ—ght the healing of Râ—me The meanes which the Iewes and your selues haue vsed to cure Babel you shew in your sermon to be three Instruction example prâ—yer By instruction you say laying opâ—n their errors discouering their impieties and lâ—ying before them the excellency of true religion Thus say I haue we done with you witnesse besides our speeches and conferences the many books of this argument which are publised in print 2 By example you say practising their own religion â—uen before their very faces nor fearing their scornes and rebukes c. And to say I haue we practised our religion amongst you and before your faces not fearing your scornes and rebukes And for proof hereof not one man as Daniel in Babel hath been taken in prayer but very many â—f vs haue been apprehended sundry times when we were praying and excercising in the word of God and from our publick meetings haue been caried to your loathsome gaoles and prisons and there deteyned many a day till some were carâ—ed out vpon the Bere vnto their graues some caried to the tree and executed Which to vse your own words had been sufficient to haue driuen you into deeper and better considerations had you not been incurable and it is to be hoped that the sight hereof hath done good on some of you 3. Thirdly they endeauoured you say to heal them by their prayers praying continually and desiring God to heal them Thus also haue we endeauoured to heal you alwayes mentioning you in our prayers that God would vouchsafe yoâ— mercy and this we professe and promise to doe for you still howsoeuer you reward vs for it so long as we liue on earth Thus haue we dealt with you according to all the duties that your selfe haue shewed both from the Iewes practise and from your own For whereas you allege a fourth thing that your selues haue done namely by devising and enacting good and wholsom lawes against their errors superstitions impieties c. seing this cannot be done by subiects or priuate men but onely where a common weal and magistracie is established and so neyther was nor could be done by the Iewes in Babel nor by vs in Engl I suppose you will not impute this as want to Duty vnto vs which if we had attempted to doe mought iustly haue been esteemed rebellion in vs and so our suffrings should haue been as malefactors Whereas then we haue vsed all lawfull meanes to cure you that we could as your selfe haue layd them down before vs I hope you will be satisfyed or if not yet any indifferent reader will thinke you are sufficiently answered THe 4. and last demand is If they Will needs leaue our church whether will they goe To leaue one thing for another no better is seely but for a â—orse â—s folly and madnes c. I answer We haue left Babylon for to come vnto Sion we forsooke your confused assemblies which consist of all sorts of people and an vnlawfull mixture with the profane and wicked that we might haue communion with the people of the Lord that willingly and gladly professe to beleeue the gospel and walke in it Now where you vrge vs to ioyne to some other church in other countries first you passe the bounds of your text from whence you can gathâ—r no such doctrine for the Iewes forsaking Babel ioyned not to any other nation or church then their own Secondly it is also contrary to your own practise who when you first left Poperie in K. Edwards daieâ— and Q. Eliz. ioyned not your selues to any forreyn church but one to another among your selves And where you tel vs of the approbation of other churches and quote their Harmony of Confessions I answer that book was set out long after your separation from Rome and communion among your selues besides also how farr they approue of you is before in this treatise considered of Pag. 10. Thirdly we could not ioyne to any of those forreyn churches becausâ— We vnderstood not their languages nor they ours and therefore vnlesse we would haue builded a new Babel with strange tongues we must ioyne into communion among our selues Thus haue I answered your 4. demaunds and for your further satisfaction if it may be will yet giue you a view of your own dealings with vs and the Babylonians dealing with the Iewes of old as they are collected by your selfe in you sermoon They of Babel obiected as you say that their own religion was general and vniuersall ouer the world and the Iewes but in a corner and agayn they say Look into the