vtterly broken off the Iewes for their sinnes infidelitie that the Gentiles might be gathered and grafted in by faith Yet is the Lord in his greatest wrath alwaies mindeful of his mercy and hath set a tyme wheÌ„ to cal ingraff againe the Iewes that al Israel might be saued and brought into one shepefold as yt is written But in the meane tyme it is no reason to say That because the Lorde euen in the worst tymes alwaies reserueth a remnaÌ„t in his mercy Therfore these wicked people in those euil tymes are his visible Church Or because the Lorde in the Loynes af the most wicked hath a holie seede according to his secret election That therfore these wicked parents are in the visible Church or their ofspring vnder the outward couenant Yet are these Mr. Giffards best ArgumeÌ„ts to proue Israel in their open schisme idolatrye and Iuda in their open Apostasy and idolatrie to be the true outward Church whervnto the Seales of the outward couenant belonged and were giuen euen to the seede of the greatest Idolator Yea the schisme apostasy idolatry prophanation of the holie things of God amongst these Iewes Israelites are the best and onlie groundes he hath or bringeth to approue iustifie the corrupt estate of the Church of ENGLAND and that the seed of their prophane Idolators ought to be baptized Saue that at leÌ„gth he hath founde out a merueylous knot in a rush and of the same made such a share for his Brâ—wnistes as they must needes either confesse the baptisme of their Church to be a signe of the couenant And so they all from their ancestors and their whole Church are within the couenant Or ells if they denie it fal into the heresie of the Catabaptistes and make themselues also without the couenant or ells to haue a couenant without seales But now if he wil giue vs leaue to vnlose this knot we must desire him to learne to put a difference betwixt false Sacraments and true Sacraments and againe betwixt false Sacraments and no SacrameÌ„ts The false Church hath her hyd bread and stollen waters her false SacrameÌ„ts The Israelites in their schisme and the Iewes in their apostasie stil had and vsed Circumciâ—ion This Circumcision was no true Sacrament vnto them neither sealed the Lordes couenant vnto them in that estate Yet was this circumcision true circumcision concerning the outward cutting and was vpon their repentance and retourne neither defaced nor reiterat but they were restored againe to the Temple and receiued to the Passouer As wee reade in Ezechias and Iosiahs tymes as also after the retourne out of Babilon In like maner in this general apostasie and defection from the Gospel so much fore-told in CHRISTES Testament the baptisme contynued and vsed in these Apostatical and false Churches cannot in this estate thus administered c be said a true Sacrament or seale of Gods couenant vnto them Yet concerning the outward washing yt is true baptisme and vpon their repentance and restoring to the Church the outward actioÌ„ need not ought not to be againe repeated after th'abuse therof in the false Church is purged away by true repentance Yet iustifie we not hereby anie thing donne in the false Church but cal all men by all meanes from the same willing their whole worship to be repented of left and forbidding al men vpon incurring the Lords heauie indignation to offer bring their children vnto the false Church to be baptized exhorting them rather patiently to expect and diligently to seeke out repaire vnto the true Church of CHRIST where at the handes of Christes true Ministers they may receiue the true seales of his couenant vnto their comfortes Yea assuring them that whilest they refreyne from that which they knowe to be euil and with true heartes sprinckled from an euil conscience diligently seeke to doe the wil of God as he offreth meanes they their seede are within the couenant of God although through the iniquitie of the tymes they be stil restreyned for a ceason from hauing outward baptisme so that they neither neglect or contemne much lesse abuse and prophane of heauenly an ordinance THus this learned Diuine hauing as you haue heard bestowed all his labour and long studie to proue the kingdomes of Israel and of Iuda in their schisme and apostasy to be the true Church yet to make the matter more cleaâ—e and the more easie for the Church of England he wil also proue her mother of Rome to be the true Church of CHRIST Because the Brownisâ—es hold that this land in the tyme of Poperie was not the true Church of CHRIST and that nowe they are but confuse multitudes not rightly â—ntred into couenant with God This that he may doe he holdeth it not enough to affirme with other learned Diuines That the invisible Church of GOD is in the Papacye as in all other places of the world because God hath his elect there and in al other places But he to be singular inverteth the Proposition and saith That the Papacy with the whole apostasie and all their abhominations and al that receiue the Beastes marcke and worship his image are in the Church because Antichrist doth sit in the Temple of God Thus whilest he without al vnderstanding or feare after his accustomed presumption peruerteth and wresteth the Scriptures from their holie sense according to his owne lust no merueile though GOD giue him vp into a reprobate sense and suffer him to drawe these heretical doctrines and damnable conclusions from the same to the destruction of himself and of as manie as receiue his doctrines If Antichrist may be said to sitt reigne and remaine in the Church of God Then CHRIST is not made heire and Lorde of all and set as Kinge vpon Mounte Sion Then CHRIST is either cast out of his house or made subiect vnto ANTICHRIST or diuideth with him Then the Church of CHRIST maie remaine subiect vnto and be gouerned by Antichrist Then the Church of Christ may stand vnder be subiect vnto two heades CHRIST and Antichrist Then CHRIST is not the onlie head of the Church If Antichrists Ministers marcked seruants maie be brought into set ouer the Church of God then is not CHRISTS Ministrie which he hath instituted to his Gospel and his Church permanent vnto the worldes end but variable at the wil of man Then may the Church of God caste out Christes Ministrie and receiue Antichrists If Antichristes doctrines lawes may be brought set vp remaine in the Church TheÌ„ Christ is not the onlie Prophet Lawegiuer Then may the Church be builte vpon an other foundatioÌ„ then vpon Gods worde If al Antichristes abhominations heresies idolatries may be brought into remaine in the Church of God Then no blasphemie heresie apostasie or anie thing that man caÌ„ commit or deuise caÌ„ breake the couenant TheÌ„ may the Church of God
true seede they that are borne after the fleshe persecuting them that are borne after the spirit It was shewed that wee are his seruantes and subiects to whom wee obeye That this yoke and bondage of Antichrist breaketh the wedlocke breaketh the Couenant with CHRIST CHRISTES loue and Couenant beeing no longer bounde or plight to vs then wee keepe faith to him which faith is forfeited and warre ended by yeilding and standing in bondage to Antichrist by taking and bearing his yoke which bondage and yoke was shewed and proued to be the badge of Antichrist the marcke of the Beaste which al the miserable multitudes vpon which the Harlot the false Church sitteth are compelled to receiue in their foreheades or in their handes wherbie the children of mounte Sina are knowen from the children of Ierusalem that is aboue and is free with al her children For al which children our Sauiour Christ hath purchased a ful and perfect libertie at a deare and pretious price hauing giuen vnto al his children the arrhabon of his spirit not the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption as sonnes And where this spirit is there is libertie For if wee be sonnes then are wee free and no bond seruantes For the bond seruaÌ„t abideth not in the house for euer but the sonne abideth for euer It was also shewed him to be a blasphemous error to say That to beare Antichristes yoke and gouernement is the lot of CHRISTES Church To conclude it was made plaine vnto him how fowllie he misvnderstoode abused falsified and peruerted those places of the Songe by him alleadged to proue that blasphemous error So that if Mr. G. would either haue bene aduertised or advised to make and put difference betwixt ciuile bondage and subiection and an antichristian bondage and yoke betwixt bodilie oppression and spiritual subiection Or would dulie haue pondered our opinions reasons and proues Or would haue bene admonished of his former dotages and errors he could not againe in these poyntes thus boldlie haue râ—sisted the euident truth turned away the direct scriptures vniustlie chardged and blasphemed vs persisted in his old dâ—â—estâ—ble errors tunne headlong into newe more and vnsufferably abused and peruerted the holy scriptures therevnto WE neuer denied and therfore may euil be chardged to hold That the Church might not be held in ciuile bondâ—ge bodily oppression persecution c by wicked vngodly guides both ciuil and ecclesiastical But what of this may it herevpon he concluded that therfore the Church may be held vnder Antichristes yoke in ecclesiastical or spiritual bondage There is no such consequeÌ„ce of this yet this is the state of the question propounded by Mr. G. in his first answeare And this he there endeuored to proue by this reason as also by the places of the Songe And nowe againe laboureth to bring to passe by an odde subtile diâ—tinction or diuision of his owne deuising and by sondry moe places of scripture He diuideth this antichristian yoke into two sortes a strict yoke and a lardge yoke His strict or proper yoke he saith is only spiritual and inwarde where the faith and conscience are burdened be in subiection to receiue Antichrist his lawes and worship The lardger yoke is when the Pastors of the Church doe vsurpe more then they ought in externall gouernment or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their hâ—nds This he calleth som antichristian yoke The first he saieth cannot be borne without falling from the freedome we haue in CHRIST The second as the lot of the Church may be willinglie suffred and wittinglie borne and yet remayne the Church of CHRIST and this by sondrie places of scripture he endeuoreth to proue First vnto his distinction or diuision of an antichristian yoke into straight and lardge outward and inwarde we acknowledge yt without the compasse of our reading or vnderstanding Wee stil affirme that no yoke or gouernement but only Christes may be borne or receiued of the true Church We furder saye and already haue proued that al the lawes and ordinances of Christes Testament howe outwardly and smale soeuer they may seeme concerne the conscience and that the wilfull omission and transgression therof bondeth both bodie and soule vnto iudgment without repentance So likewise we hold that euerie antichristian yoke chardgeth and bindeth the conscience both bodie and soule It being opposite vnto and a transgression of CHRISTES lawes and ordinances And therfore wonder how these Academical diuines these pleaders for iniquitie dâ—re hatch vs these poysoned distinctions of lardg and straight antichristian yokes the one binding the other not concerning the conscience Except they can shewe Gods lawe Or ells some transgression of Gods lawe that bindeth and chardgeth not the conscience Vntil Mr. Gif can doe this he must giue vs leaue not to receiue his curious distinction of lardge and straight yoke outward and inward Wee thincke also his reason somewhat hardlie constrayned when he concludeth because Antichrists yoke is spiritual Therfore onlie inwarde Wee call yt spirituall because yt commeth as also Antichrist himself doth by the effectual worcking of Sathan As also because it is wholly about spiritual and ecclesiastical actions and procedings But shal we therfore say yt is onlie inwarde Might not by these reasons the whole visible Church yt self al the publicke ministration actions and ordinances therof as also euerie person member therof be said only inward because they are al said spiritual Againe it semeth that Mr. G. litle vnderstandeth what an Antichristian yoke is that termeth euerie sinne and disorder arising in the Church an antichristian yoke We confesse the Church may transgresse of negligence or ignoraÌ„ce yea so suffer such vngodlie presumptuous persons Ministers to abuse their power for a ceason yet this is not willingly to beare or wittingly to receiue anie antichristian yoke neither cease they herevpon to be true Churches whilest they despise not admonitioÌ„ neither refuse to repent being reproued Yet this we saie the Church greatlie sinneth in suffring such presumptuous inordinate persons whom they ought to cast out And if so be the Church either want wil and refuse to cast them out being admonished or want power and be not able to cast them out being discouered but it brought in subiection remayneth in boÌ„dage to these guides yt ceaseth in this estate vnto our iudgment to be the true Church of Christ. And nowe to the scriptures Mr. G. bringeth that the true Church may wittingly and willinglie be brought into bondage of some antichristian yoke Ezech. 34. Ierem. 5. 31. Ier. 20. 1. Ioh. 7. 13. Iohn 9. 22. First wee say that these Ministers were by office and caling true Ministers of the Temple but their Ministers by office and calling are not and so no comparison Then we say that these were now so wholly degenerate and apostatate in Iehoiakim and Zedechiahs tymes and the whole state so corrupted and fallen from God into
the law yet his office still retained but we hold that the Minister ought to repent his sinne before he administer and the Church to admonish him of his knowen sinne before they suffer him to administer and not coÌ„municat with him if he be obstinat If the Church neglect their dutie he and they transgresse yet do we not say that it is no Sacrament that he deliuereth or that his ministerie is disanulled But we must put Mr. Giffard in minde how far he is gone from our cause in this comparison We neuer disalowed their SacrameÌ„ts as being administred by a lawful Minister in a lawful office yet the man a sinner But of such counterfeites as haue neither lawfull office entrance c but stand enchanters in Antichristes kingdome so that these are not the personal sinnes of a Minister in the Church wherin Mr. Giff. wickednes appeareth to make the questioÌ„ of the mans person or his sinne when it is the ministery office entrance administation al which wee hold to be Antichristian and to haue nothing to do with the seales of Gods Couenant in this estate not here to speake of the altering of the institution in the maner of administring yt vvhich the Donatistes neuer either had cause or made question of as it seemeth And whether anie promise is made to the elementes abused in the false yea whether to the elementes or to the keeping of the lawes and ordinances in the true Church let Mr. Giffard make answere Further when we affirme the Sacramentes of the false Church to be no true seales of the Couenant because they are Idolatours and Idolatrous the Lordes ordinances prophaned and lawes wholly violated wee do not therby conclude it to bee no Baptisme concerning the outwarde washing for wee can put difference betwene a false and none a false Sacrament or counterfeit signe and none for the false Church is saide to haue her peace offringes And although wee holde them highly to tempt God to their owne condemnation if they repent not that wittingly prophane or of wilfull ignorance transgresse those high ordinances as in the false Church to be superstitious of the element where the lawe and Couenant is broken yet do wee not therevpon affirme wee neede anie reiterating of the outward signe as the Donatistes but hold this false signe nowe a true signe sufficient to vs concerning the outward washing Circumcision in the Apostasie of Israel which was without promise to the receiuers in that estate and nothing but sinne in yt yet stood for a sufficient outward cutting wheÌ„ anie of them returned to the Church and ate of the Passouer wherof it was not lawfull for any vncircumcised to eate how the signe might haue bene reiterated if need had so required we may see by that of y e Apostle 1 Cor. 7. for gathering againe their circumcisioÌ„ if it might be gathered againe then secondly cut Where Mr. Giffard then in stead of performing his comparison saith that the Donatistes in rebaptising did better of both because he that is not baptised ought to be baptised he bewrayeth his ignorance that cannot put difference betwene a false Sacrament and none a false signe and none The grossnes also he supposeth to haue bene in vs is found in himself that lest he should make the false and counterfeit washing in the false church to be none runneth to iustifie the Church ministerie sacramentes c at ROME and so must conclude himself of necessitie a Schismaticke or a popish Priest which he will And where he demandeth whether he that knoweth he was neuer baptised can be saued if he seek not to be baptised when he may haue yt We demande againe how euer true baptisme should be restored if the false signe of baptisme which was then without promise in the false Church should not now be sufficient concerning the outward signe To the Government IN the principle of principles that I say not the verie summe of all causes of our separation from these assemblies namely the gouernment which Mr. GIFFARD termeth discipline he can not finde any coÌ„similitude betwene the Donatistes and vs for the confesseth he hath not read that they did take anie exception against it in that tyme. Take your word discipline for al the meanes that CHRIST hath apointed by his lawes ministerie censures to keepe guyde gouerne his Church ioyntly and seuerally to be instructed in their duties and see what a dilemma you are come vnto this being graÌ„ted that herein ther is no agreement seeing the chief cause of our controuersie with you is for the rable of this Antichristian and pseâ—dohierarchie Courtes c which haue no place in the Church of God where CHRISTS officers offices lawes censures ought to gouerne and guyde his Church But here according to your accustomed maner you goe about to say there were faultes to be found in their gouernment then yea as well as in their worship c which you affirmed to be as corrupt as yours is now wherein if ante regard were to be had of your words you would not only make those Bishopps in as euill state as these that Church as yours now but haue cast into the fire al the platformes that your learned Reformistes haue pleaded for from that falsly so called Primatiue Church Well I haue told you the question is not whether they had the true gouernment or no whether in that gouernment there were corruptions defaultes or negligences but whether the Donatistes separated therfore or no they had the same offices officers lawes censures that the other so that you speak not only false in saying they might haue had as iust cause in this respect of separation as we but also bring the Argument to confound your self with your whole Church wherin you stand a Priest Thus you are separated from the Church of ROME but retaine still the same hierarchie worship gouernment that they vsed and haue as the Do. of the Churches from which they separated therfore you in this as in the rest of your Argumentes conclude your selues Donatistes Heretickes and Schismatickes from the Church of ROME But Mr. GIFFARD will denie that the Donatistes had as great cause to separate from those Churches froÌ„ which they separated as those English Priestes from their Graundfather the Pope for it was not so corrupted The same we answere to you for your gouernment how then shall we end this matter I take it thus that the Priestes of England despise the Popes person and yet keepe the same orders lawes officers offices that he erected So the Donatistes kept stil the orders of gouernment that the Churches they separated from Now if we can cleare our selues that we retaine not the same gouernment amongst vs that the Church doth we separat from which I thinke cannot be denyed then Mr. GIF hath in a chief principle put himself and this whole laud into the number of Donatistes The Argument is now this The Church of England separateth from the Church of
nations that were gathered togither by the false Prophet into battell against Christ his armie how he should smite the heatheÌ„ with the sharpe sword that issueth out of his mouth rule them with a rod of yron and tread theÌ„ in the wine-presse of his fierce wrath how he should giue the flesh of all this people with their Kinges Capitanes and mightie men as a praye to the fowles the vncleane spirites and how he should take the Beast and with him the false Prophet that wrought signes before him wherein he deceiued them that receiued the Beastes marck and worshipped his Image and cast these both aliue into that lake of fire burning in brimstone Who now if not such to whome the scriptures are hidden and this Booke sealed could in this generall falling away from the gospel this generall departure of the true established Churches out of the inhabited this vniuersall corruption confusion of all estates degrees persons callings actions both in the Church commune welth in this estate in this defection seeke for or pleade for a true visible established Church the true ministerie of the gospel true worship ministration sacraments gouernment order Or who that were not droncke and had all their senses bound intoxicate with the whores cuppe could affirme this coÌ„fuse Babel these cages of vncleane birdes these prisons of foule hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ the coÌ„gregatioÌ„s of the Sainctes the true established and rightly ordered Churches of Christ Is it likely that these men haue as yet read the whores misterie written in her forehead or as yet know what belongeth to the true established Church worship administration sacraments ordinances gouernment of Christ though they haue in his Testament which is dayly read amongest them an exact absolute parterne of al these things before their eies And haue not in their Churches anie one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pinne naile or hooke according to the true patterne Yea though they heare the trompets of the Lord blowen against them though they see the viallz of the Lords wrath powred vpon them and all their doings yet stop they their eares wincke with their eies lest they should see with their eies and heare with theire eares and vnderstand with their heartes and be conuerted healed And therfore are so farr from finding place to repentance that they opeÌ„ their mouthes into blasphemie and railings especially these men that haue the marcke of the Beaste vpon whome that euill malignant sore is fallen as you dayly see and heare in their bookes pulpets And how well these gouernours mariners merchantmen and all that trafique on this sea can endure the borning of these their pleasant gainefull wares how they waile howle and crye out when this heauenly fire is cast out into their shippes Let the behauiour of these Bishopps their hierarchie and Priestes towards the seruants of God that speak against their AntichristiaÌ„ proceadings shew and how they bestir them to quench the burning of the harlot smiting rending Christs poore witnesses with tongue tooth and naile casting out of their mouthes a flood of raylings reproches sclanders criminations against theÌ„ of poysoned bitters waters corrupt doctrines blasphemous opinions vnsufferable peruerting abusing the scriptures to hide tollerat or defend the antichristian forgeries abhominations disorder enormities of their Church ministrie that are discouered condempned by the word of God in the mouthes of vs his simple witnesses Of this sort amongst manie other such like are two bookes notoriously infamous lately published by one George Giffard a Priest of their orders against certeine christians whome he calleth Brownists Donatiste In the one of these Bookes he laboureth to defend cleare the parish assemblies of the Church of England of such heinous crimes as the said christians obiect against them and forsake them for witnessing suffring in bandes persecution against the same vnder the handes of those popish Prelats Romish Priestes In the other Booke he indeuoreth to recouer the blame he iustly suffred in the first for reproching sclandering blaspheming accusing these faithfull and innocent christians applijng himself to proue them Donatists by comparing together them from poinct to poinct Both which Bookes are here answered and now at length published to the pervsing iudgment of al men Where they shal see how well he hath delyuered and acquitted their Church in the first As also how iustly he hath proued his charges accusations and blasphemies in the first second The â—ower principall transgressions wherwith we charge and for which we forsake these parish assemblies Namely the prophanenes wickednes confusion of the people which are here receiued reteined nourished as members The vnlawfullnes of their whole ministrie which is imposed vpon them reteined mainteined by them The superstition idolatrie of their publique worship in that deuised Leitourgie which is imposed vpon them And the forgerie of their antichristian ecclesiasticall gouernment to which al their Churches stand subiect are such and so apparant as not only proue these parish assemblies not to be true established Churches of Christ But if it were admitted which can neuer be proued that they somtimes had bene true established Churches yet these transgressions obstinatly stood in and defended are sufficient causes of our seperation from them in this degenerate estate For where such prophane coÌ„fuse multitâ—des without anie exception seperatioÌ„ or choice were all of them immediatly from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compelled to be members of this Church in some Parish or other where they inhabited without anie due calling to the faith by the preaching of the gospel going before or orderly ioyning togither in the faith there being no voluntarie or perticular confession of their owne faith and duties made or required of anie and last of all no holy walking in the faith found amongst them Who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rules of Christs Testament Or who can say that this people in this estate are the communion of Sainctes Or who without sacrilege in this estate can administer the holy things of God vnto or in the same communicate with this people Likewise where these parishes haue a false antichristian ministerie imposed vpoÌ„ them who can say that they are the true established Churches of Christ to the building ministerie wherof Christ hath ordeined instituted and prescribed a certaine ministrie vnto the worldes end Or who without sacrilege may ioyne vnto or communicate with a false antichristian ministrie Christ also hath gyuen vnto his Church perpetuall and alsufficient rules in his holy word for the whole administratioÌ„ gouernmeÌ„t of his established churches to which they are bound wherby they ought to buyld proceede and walke Those Churches then that receiue an other Leitourgie an other foundation other rules for their
in our general positioÌ„ of this transgression to proue your worship false and idolatrous your peremptorie answere is That they but make apparaÌ„t our vanitie and Anabaptistical error Our vanitie in that the 3. first 1. of the invention of man 2. of that man of sinne 3. erroneous are al but one Our Anabaptistical error is in the 4. in these wordes imposed wherin we chalendge such a freedome to the Church as that nothing may be imposed vpon the flockes that the Church-gouernours shal decree by the worde The 3. first of these reasons whereby his worship was proued to be idolatrous he quietlie suffring to passe and carry their conclusion laboureth to proue al but one Because saith he whatsoeuer maÌ„ inventeth in the worship of GOD is erroneous And whatsoeuer is erroneous therin was invented by man For al false worship is mans invention whether it be the invention of the man of sinne or anie other it is al one before God vvho respecteth not persons but the vvickednes of the sinne Wel howsoeuer we might insist and shew difference betweene that maÌ„ of sinne that Antichrist and others that haue not such cursed marckes vpon them howsoeuer also we might shew differences betwixt the deuises of other more godlie men which deuises peraduenture in themselues conteine no errors vntil they be abused set vp enioyned and read in the church c and the Popes Portesse from which execrable plaÌ„t al these idolatrous graftes are fetched Yet wil we not stand vpon lighter matters with you contending whether the reasons may be said three or one It sufficeth vs and we content our selues to haue proued obteined That the worship of your Church is erroneous yt being made of the invention of man And your self hath confessed That vvhatsoeuer man inventeth in the vvorship of God is erroneous Nowe we may furder conclude from the second Commandment That whatsoeuer worship is deuised by man and whatsoeuer deuise of man is put into the worship of God is idolatrie But a great part if not the whole worship of your Church is deuised by man euen by the man 〈◊〉 c. Therfore the worship of your Church is idolatrie Let yâ—â—r Seruice-booke proue our â—iâ—or Proposition or your answers to the perticulars disproue it And we in the meane time will procede vnto your answere vnto the .4 part of our Proposition imposed vpon them Wherin you chardge vs with this Anabaptisticall error That we should chalendg such a freedome as nothing might be imposed vpon the Church which the Church gouernours should decree by the worde It should seeme certeinly you knowe not what truth or error meaneth Or ells are so possessed with malice as you make no conscieÌ„ce what truth you cal heresie or heresie you cal truth as appeareth by your vniust chardging of vs and your vngodlie defending al the abhominations of the tymes Who but you could drawe this hereticall collection from our wordes we in the same sentence and in the verie next worde immediatlie going before hauing protested your worship to be erroneous How maie it followe that because we denie errors to be imposed vpon the Church Therfore we denie that such thinges as the Elders shal determine of by y e worde of God may be imposed vpoÌ„ the Church Whie what the Elders decree by the worde of God cannot be said to be the invention or the commandement of man but of God by whose direction they but pronounce and performe the will of God But no error can be said to be of the worde of God and euerie invention of man by your owne confession is erroneous Therfore we may stil againe here conclude that seing the worship of your church of England is made of the invention of man euen of the man of sinne erroneous and imposed vpoÌ„ them yt is false idolatrous and such as no true Elders may impose or the true Church of Christ receaue Furder we say that no true Elders of the Church nor y e whole Church yt self may decree or impose anie thing by way of lawe which Christ hath not decreed imposed in his worde And if you hold otherwise as your popish phrases Decree impose vpon the flockes seeme to import then we affirme that you both hold a Papistical Anabaptistical error and vtterlie not onlie corrupt the worship gouernment of Christ but bring in a new worship gouernment by bringing in setting vp your owne decrees deuises as the Papistes Anabaptistes doe NOw coÌ„meth their Leitourgie or Seruice-Booke which coÌ„taineth the publique worship administratioÌ„ of their Church to be examined by the word of God The defence wherof Mr. GIFFARD though he be a sworne Priest after vnto the orders therof yet he verie loathlie and doubtfullie vndertaketh at the first entrance as one that carieth a witnesse and a iudge that could tell an other tale in his owne conscience He confesseth that as no mans workes are perâ—ect so there are manie and great faultes in this Booke though as yt should seeme none of those perticulars which we recited vnto him onlie the baptisme by weomen excepted seing the laboureth to defend all the rest But we which for some errors and spots hould it to be an idolatrous booke and the worship therof idolatrie fal into that foule and detestable heresie of perfectioÌ„ And in that we affirme yt to be a pregnant Idoll ful of errours blasphemies and abhominations vve doe falslie accuse and impudentlie sclander These great wordes nether convince vs nor cleare you let them therfore remaine vpon your accompt The truth of our chardges and the qualitie of your transgressions shall by and by appeare by the discussing the perticulars And for all your greate threates of heresie we still for the faultes we haue alleadged though there were no more as by your owne confession ther are both manie more and greater dare affirme your worship to be false idolatrous and abhominable The vvorde of God caleth him an heretick that obstinatelie holdeth anie one error after due conviction though be hold much truth besides There is no heretick that doth not hold some yea much truth The word of God pronounceth them idolatours that obstinately contynue in anie idolatrous and false worship though they doe manie other things according to the rules of the worde ells were not the Papistes to be iudged Idolatours or Heretickes Shall all they now that iudge according to the worde of God be guiltie of that detestable heresie of perfection What is this but to accuse God of heresie whose iudgments these are Because we cannot be perfect here therfore we ought not to contend towards perfection by leauing that which is euill as yt is shewed vnto vs and endeuouring to do that which is good Might not the Masse-booke and the most vile heresies be thus defended and iustified Because they are not perfect therfore they not euill Because they cannot be perfect therfore they will leaue none euil This is Mr.
funeral Sermons ouer for the deade You confesse a maner of visiting the sicke prescribed but you demande of vs where we haue seene it practized by or vrged at their handes which are able and diligent Pastors by these that haue the gouernment of your Church Wee answeare that it sufficeth to be commanded and prescribed by your seruice-booke vnto all your Ministers and Churches to the diligent obseruation wherof all ful Priestes are sworne Furder your Church-Wardens Sidemen are sworne to present all defaultes therin at the Arch-Deacons or CoÌ„missaries Courtes So that no marueyle though this booke be founde in the handes of the most diligent able Priestes reading yt ouer weomeÌ„ at their Churching ouer the maried ouer the sicke ouer y e deade and where not And for Mr. Giffards satisfying we giue him to weite that as learned Priestes as he haue vsed this booke to the visitation of the sicke And nowe we would knowe of him whie these able Priestes should haue more libertie to pray by the the direction of the spirit for and with the sick according to their present estate theÌ„ they are allowed by those that haâ—e the gouernment of your Church in the publique praiers of the whole Church according to the present estate therof To conclude we would knowe of him by what warrant in Gods worde the Church can prescribe enioyne such a forme of visiting c. As to their Absolution which Mr. Giffard so slilye would passe ouer without speakinh anie worde therof Let the Reader vnderstand that nothing can be more popish or blasphemous then yt is where a sacrilegious Priest taketh vpon him by the authoritie committed vnto him to absolue the sicke from all his sinnes Hath anie mortal man power to forgiue sinnes Or is it not the office of God alone Hath the Priest power to forgiue al sinnes such as are not made vnto him What horrible blasphemie is this To him that hath power to forgiue all sinnes to him we may make our prayers and supplications him only may we worship Hath the greatest Minister of the Church any more power to retaine or loose the sinne of the least member then the said member hath to bind or loose his sinne Doth not this rule of our Sauiour aswel extend vnto him as to the least in the Church If thie brother sinne against thee rebuke him and if he repent forgiue him Hath not the Church power to reproue and cast out their Pastor if he so deserue Is not al this binding loosing donne by the worde of God and not by anie power or excellencye of man Hath not the worde of God the like power and effect against sinne in the mouth of the least of Gods seruants as in y e mouth of the greatest Let this Collect then wherbie the Priest in their Leitourgie by the power committed vnto him absolueth the sick of al his sinnes remaine one witnesse amongst manie other of their Poperie and vntil more come of most high blasphemie Mr. GIFFARD taketh verie heinouslie at our handes this phrase of housâ—ing with the Sacrament terming yt a false packing in vs and goeth about to purge his Church therof by shewing how yt denieth al y e wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrines of the Papists touching the Lordes Supper And also denieth that a man is of necessitie to receaue yt at his death Thus euer with his impertinent matters he vvith-draweth and shrinketh from the present question We must therfore still call him backe to the poynte and demaund of him what warrant in CHRISTS Testament their Church hath to institute a priuate Communion or to administer the Supper of the Lord in anie other place theÌ„ where y e church is assembled This if he can doe then indeed we haue faulted in caling yt an Housel But if he can shewe no warrant for this priuate domestical Communion then we must still blame this action as popish superstitious and irregular what doctrines soeuer they hold of the Lordes Supper besides Againe though they exhort and perswade the sick person that this Sacrament is not then of necessitie Yet if he be so superstitious to require it the Priest then is bownde of necessitie to deliuer yt him though there be no more to receaue then they two And what is this but to nourish superstition or to make the Sacrament so deliuered of great value proffit vnto them Thus iugleth toyeth your Church with the holy things of God at her pleasure THe Papistes you say that invented the Purgatorie had also their blasphemous diriges prayers for the deade But we are more then impudent in lying to terme the prayers which you vse at burials such seing your Church denieth the Purgaâ—orie prayers for the dead c. We will not requite you with euil wordes but let the proofe of these matters declare who is a lyer and impudent We would therfore first knowe of you where you haue learned to make the burial of your deade an ecclesiasticall action part of the Pastors office and to make it an especial part of your worship if not of the POPE Then where you learned to burie in your Hallowed Churches and Church-yardes as though you had not fieldes and grounde to bury in with a special Dirige and leitourgie with praiers Singers Ringers Mourners Beades-meÌ„ c if not of the POPE It were too longe to shewe the originall and processe of this superstition with the great aduantage that coÌ„meth to the Priestes therbie It were needles also to shewe howe this your Leitourgie Dirige and prayers are fetched and peiced out of the POPES Portesse It were curious to relate the watching preparing arraying crossing dressing the corps to the graue also the array of the Mourners with all the superstition of the Heraldes the attyre of the Priestes aud Clarckes with their tymes and place when and vvhere to receaue vvhen to rest when to singe to reade to praye when and with what wordes to cast on the first shouel of earth by the hand of the Priest the graue being made easte and west c. Onely this in general we say that all these deuises seing God no where commandeth them in his worde are vayne superstitious and fond as whereby Gods name is highly taken in vayne prophaned and abused yea his holy spirit most impiouslie blasphemed despighted For whilest the whole land is of their Church and they bury all that dye in their Church of their natural death after this maner with this Leitourgie but such as dye of any violent death how christianly soeuer they vouchsalf not thus to burye pronouncing in the Collect they vse whilest earth is casting on that God in his mercy hath taken to himself the Soule of that their deare Brother or Sister departed they therbie iustifie the most wicked gracelesse impenitent vvretches Atheistes blasphemers Idolarours Papists Anabaptists Heretickes Coniurers that dye in their sinnes as though such could haue anie benefite
by the death of CHRIST or the mercy of God belonged vnto such as dye in their sinnes impenitent except peraduenture the Priestes prayers nowe the holines of the grownd and this christen buryal c may helpe him thus openlâ—e contradicting th'expresse word of God and hardening all the rest of your prophane Atheists Idolators whore-masters blasphemers in their sinnes Likewise in an other Collect where they desire God that they with that their departed brother may haue a perfect consummation blisse both in bodie soule what do they but pray for the Soule of the deade seing they burye all with this Collect and some must needes dye apparantly wicked and impenitent Yea what doe they hereby but establish a Purgatory or some such meane place for in Hel there is no redemption Thus whither doth not man wander whilest he followeth his owne inventions and forsaketh the straight pathes of the Lorde AS to their venal funerall Sermons they haue as litle grownde or vvarrant in the Scriptures as their Dirige and funeral Collects haue Wel may they deriue them from the funeral Orations of the Heathen Orators but no president they haue of the godlie in anie age so to bury their deade We reade of no such matter at anie of the Patriarches Prophets or godlie Kinges burial No nor at the burial of our Sauiour CHRIST of the Martyre Stephen of the Apostle Iames or anie of the faithful in those tymes yet were there as godlie religious learned and able men to doe yt then aliue remayning as they that thinck the best of themselues nowe if the holy Ghost had seene it so needful NExt fellowe your corrupt maner of administring the Sacraments the Font the Crosse in baptisme your Gossips and blasphemous Collects vsed to this Sacrament your Baptisme by weomen Bishoping with other heretical Collects of this booke when we shew you say whie the Fonte is an abhomination you shal knowe what to say How idolatrously the Font was inveÌ„ted brought into y e church hallowed the POPE is euident to all men Whether they fetched this from the Iewes Lauar Sea or Base we will not here dispute Sufficeth it vs that yt ys an idolatrous popish enchauÌ„ted hallowed relique wherin they put kept their enchaunted hallowed water and vsed yt to manie execrable idolatries Therfore yt is an abhominatioÌ„ to the Lord a detestable Idoll that ought to be vtterly abolished by the lawe of God and ought not to be vsed in his Church and worship Furder seing yt nourisheth the Papists the weake and ignorant in their fore-conceaued superstitioÌ„ and is an offence vnto the godly if yt were a thing in libertie yet ought is not to be thus vsed much lesse thus enioyned retayned by vertue of lawe vpon all Congregations And seing in the best imagination of yt it is not an instrument of anie more necessitie or vse vâ—to this Sacrament then anie other cleane and decent vessel seing also our Sauiour CHRIST hath not separated anie vessel or water to this vse We cannot see how a fewe men may be thus bold to command this vessel vpon all Churches by waye of lawe and to forbid all other vnto this vse For what is this but to restraine that which God hath left in libertie to coÌ„trole God and to make newe lawes for his Church And whie might they not by the same vsurped power bring in what vnnecessarie Ceremonies they list eueÌ„ al their fore-Fathers y e Iewes Popes infinite traditions aswel as these popish deuises Iewish ordinances aboue-said aswel as these popish idolatrous reliques of Fonte Bells Organs Musick Surplices Coapes Vestimentes Habites Hoodes Cappes Tippetts Tires c. BVt if these least litle thinges which they call matters indifferent wherein al men ought to obey proue so heynous in Gods eyes so pernitious to the whole Church what shal we thinck of their Simbolical Ceremonies tryflings iocolings that they haue added to their Sacracraments As vnto their Baptisme a Dialogue betwixt the Priest the Clarcke the God-fathers God-mothers and the Infant the signe of the Crosse the sanctifying or making holie their water c. Their fowre sortes of Baptismes Namely 1. Their publique Baptisme by the Priest c. 2. Their hastie Baptisme by weomen 3. Their Baptisme by supposition N. if thou be not baptised I baptize thee c. 4. And their Lorde the Bishop his Baptisme or Confirmation of CHRISTS baptisme Likewise in their Sacrament of the Supper their friuolous Leitourgie stinting the Priest when and how to stand at the North end of the Table what and when to saye and praye when to kneele when to tourne when to glory God c. Also the vayne Dialogue betwixt the Priest Clarcke and People Their altering the wordes of CHRISTS institution and deliuering yt after a popish maner The bodie of our Lord IESVS CHRIST vvhich vvas giuen for thee preserue thie Bodie and Soule vnto euerlasting Life c and that kneeling that they might adore the bread or at least retaine a taste of their former superstition in tyme of high poperie c. Of this Sacrament they haue also diuers kindes with diuers Leitourgies As publique or ordinarie Sollemne vpon certaine of their Festiuals And priuate or domestical Not here to speake of their other half Sacraments As their Penance or Commination vpon Ash-wednesday with their special Leitourgie therevnto Their Sollemnization of Mariage in the bodie of their Church vpon the Lordes daye or otherwise by the Priest with his booke and special Leitourgie with a Ring as the element to be laid vpon the Seruice-booke which doth hallowe yt in steade of holie Water with which ring the man must be taught of the Priest to wedd his wief c And the marryed offer vnto the Priest and Clarck TOuching the Crosse Mr. Giffard confesseth yt to be most blasphemously and horribly abused in Poperye they ascribing vnto yt power to driue out deuils and worshipping yt with deuine honor We looked that after his accustomed maner he should haue said But our Church doth not so thinck of or worship the Crosse Therfore you Brownists most impudent lye sclander c. But in steade of this he saith neuer a worde to the mattter in perticular Saue vnto Symbolical ceremonies in general he is of iudgment That the antient Churches immediatlie after th'apostles tyme did offend in taking ouer much libertie to ordeine ceremonies Symbolical Yet he doubteth not but verie reuereÌ„d godlie learned men ledd by th'example of those holye Fathers haue iudged it lawful for the Churches to ordeyne such Ceremonies We would first therfore knowe of those reuerend godlie learned and not of Mr. Giffard whie they nowe that al are Christian and no heathen amongst them retaine enioyne this superstitious signe of the crosse in th'administration of their baptisme Also whether they are not persuaded That our Sauiour Christes institution which the Apostles taught and deliuered vnto the Churches touching th'administration
also yet you wil hold no part of that execrable Idoll good The Papistes hange the first wordes of the Gospel after Iohn about their necke for manie purposes shall we not saye that this or their Agnus Dei are abhominable Idolls therfore Coniurers vse diuers Psalmes and scriptures in their magical incantations diuers Collects with as litle euill as most of yours shall we nowe allowe anie part of their Coniurations are they not altogether accursed The Scriptures then we see may be abused yet no way iustifie anie part of the wicked action or naughty thing to which they are applyed The Scriptures are holy good of themselues yet when they are thus violently rent dismembred constrayned peruerted abused ioyned to these idolatries they no way iustifie any part of the vvorship but make the whole more execrable We can saye then that those Scriptures vvhich you thus prophane and abuse to your idolatries aboue-said as your idoll feastes and all your idol vvorship and ministration are in their due place true vse holie reuerend gratious But vvhen they are abused peruerted and ioyned to patch vp this idolatrie they make the whole the more execrable All the Scriptures then of God are holy pure and all the whole Masse-Booke and English seruice-Booke and euerie part therof are detestable Idolls All which Idoll and euery part therof vve can condemne and yet preserue the sacred maiestie and aucthoritie of the Scriptures All this your festered conscience blasphemous mouth could to your furder iudgment confesse in our name though Sathan that speaketh in you by and by sought to quench it by deriding our holie suffrings Our baÌ„des vnto vs are comfortable glorious vnto God and shal rise vp and be produced in iudgment with this idolatrous murderous generatioÌ„ of your horned cleargy But now to the Scriptures be you alledged If you were demaunded where you learned to mumble ouer that Scripture by you falsely caled the Lords prayer fiue tymes in your Morowe-Masse and to vse yt at all assaies to to saye yt ouer the sick ouer the deade ouer the weomen in Churching ouer the marryed c should not your holie Father the POPE be founde the aucthor of all this Also if we should aske you where you reade and how you could proue that blasphemous Article of your faith That CHRIST discended into Hel what scripture could you shew or alleadge for yt Thus are euen those thinges wherof you glorie tourned to your shame if so be that you could be ashamed of anie thing Yet howsoeuer you maye harden your heart and your face against the manifest truth by this sleight discussing of your worship doctrines and administration euen by this litle which is alreadie said all men may discerne what kinde of ministers blinde guides you be Also anie that had but once seene the Church of Rome might easilie by the â—â—ea-spotts freakes you speake of knowe her daughter of England at the first blush For as the Mother such the Daughter is in al her limbes features and proportions Hetherto we haue spoken of some odious fowle faultes and errors in perticular founde in this their worship or Leitourgie the furder examination wherof and searche of the rest that remaine we leaue to the furder diligeÌ„ce of others And nowe touching this their seruice-booke and Leitourgie in general this we saye 1. IN that they presume to giue and enioyne their prescript wordes in praier they take the office of the Holie Ghost awaie quench the spirit of the ministrie and of the whole Church stop and keepe out the graces of God thrust their owne idle deuises vpon the whole Church yea vpon GOD himselfe whether he wil or no 2. IN that bie their Leitourgie they prescribe what and how much to reade at Morne to their Mattens at Eauen c teachinge the Church and ministrie to pray by nomber stint and proportion it is not onely popish but most friuolous and vayne disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministerie 3. IN that by this their Leitourgie they prescribe vnto the Church what Scriptures publiquelie to reade and when to reade them as these Chapters and Psalmes at their mattens before noone those at after noone c On all the dayes that they haue publique meetings and seruice through the yeere and soe from yeere to yeere They therebie take from the Church the holie and free vse both of the Scriptures and spirit of GOD. They therbie conceale and shut out of the Church a great part of GODS holie worde which they reade not As also abuse without order those scriptures they enioyne to be read 4. IN that they shread rend and dismember the Scriptures from the holie Order and natural sense of their context to make them Epistles Gospels Lessons select Psalmes to their festivals and Idol worship aboue-said They most heinouslie pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonor of GOD their owne feareful iudgment 5. IN that they bring in and commaunde the Apochrypha writings to be publiquelie read in the Church They both mainetaine and publiquelie teach the dangerous errors therin contayned to the poysoning and subverting of the faith of the Church They thrust these deuises of men into the place of GODS worde causing the people therebie to reuerence and esteeme them as the holie Oracles of GOD of like aucthoritie dignitie and truth and to resorte vnto them to builde their faith thervpon and therbie they bring in an other foundation into the Church besides the high iniurie donne vnto GOD therbie 6. FInallie in that by this their Leitourgie they bring in erect and enioyne a new strange kinde of administration as is aboue proued in the perticulars They make and erect a new Gospel and so must needes also erect vnto yt a new ministrie For the ministrie of Christ is only bounde vnto and wil onlie administer by Christes Testament wherein they haue a most perfect Leitourgie for the whole administration of his Church Therfore this present Leitourgie and ministrie of ENGLAND are by al these reasons in general and perticular founde and proued at once to be counterfeite vngodlie and Antichristian His wide friuolous Parenthesis from the 17. page of his booke vnto the 47. touching read prayer and prescript Leitourgies we leaue to be discussed and refuted by an other to whose writinges we referr the Reader Leauing Mr. Giffard and the whole Church of ENGLAND touching this first pointe of their worship to be compassed about with the sparckes and to walke on in the light of the fire that they haue kindled Yet this to them of our hand they shal lye in sorrowe THE SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION IS THAT the prophane vngodlie multitudes without the exception of anie one person are with them receiued into and retayned in the bozome and bodie of their Church IN Mr. Giffard his former answere vnto this Transgression he then not being past al shame confessed That the most Churches in England want godlie
of Gods promises the greatnes of Gods mercie that remembreth his Couenant in his greatest indignation wrath as also the smale beginnings and daylie growth and proceadings of our sanctification in this life As though we euer doubt or denied that the Lord our God his couenant was made established and preserued vnto vs in his CHRIST only without any worckes or merite in vs present or to come to deserue or to retaine his fauour the least minute Alas our miserable forlorne estate even from our Mothers wombe before we knowe the Lorde yea our contynual transgressions defections euer since we knewe the Lorde wheÌ„ we behold our liues in that sparckling glasse of his lawe do shew vs that we are not saued be worckes but by the free grace mercie of God through faith in CHRIST and that not of our selues but by the gift of God whose worcke we are created in CHRIST IESVS vnto good worckes which God hath fore-ordayned y t we should walke in them But now whilest we acknowledge the whole worcke of our saluation from the beginninge to the end to be of God and not of our selues to procede from to be established vpon his free grace mere mercy and loue and not from or vpoÌ„ any goodnes in vs fore-seene or subsequent Yet make we not therby the grace of God and his holy spirit which he hath giueÌ„ to al his elect to be idle vayne or fruictlesse in any of them but to regenerate chaunge enlighten and sanctifie them to bring all their affections into and to keepe them in the loue obedience of the truth By the profession of which truth they are knowen receiued as members of the visible Church made partakers of the commune comfortes couenant of the Saincts From which profession when they fall away and will not be reduced by the voyce of the Church or renued by repentaÌ„ce but remaine obstinate hardned in their sinnes then are they by the commandement power of CHRIST to be cut off as withered branches to be cast out from the fellowship of the saincts and all interest in CHRIST to be deliuered vnto Sathan c. The same rules faith saluation iudgments we haue aboue shewed to belong vnto al and vnto euerie one vnto al as vnto one being founde in the same faith or in the same transgressions Now then whilest the whole Congregation or anie member therof shall remaine hardened in sinne deniâ—ng to obey Christes voyce refusing to repent who can say that this Church or man in this estate can by vs which iudge see but according to the rules of the worde be affirmed held the true Church of Christ within the outward Couenant when Christ himself commandeth vs to deliuer them vp to Sathan in his name to haue no fellowship with them This caÌ„not be doÌ„ne of vs vnto any whom we may affirme within the outward couenant God his secret electioÌ„ councels wherin he hath determined from before al worlds who shalbe saued how far the faithful shalbe tryed fal and when he wil raise them againe beloÌ„ge not vnto vs to iudge of Onley this is most sure they y t thus fal away are hardened are not of vs to be held esteemed within the outwarde CovenaÌ„t or receiued vntil they as publickly repeÌ„t How theÌ„ can this wicked sclaÌ„deâ—er drawe this gracelesse collection damnable coÌ„clusioÌ„ from this holie doctrine That where obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne there the outward Covenant is brokeÌ„ no communioÌ„ to be held vntil repentance be made Therfore we holde that the stablenes of Gods CouenaÌ„t with his Church depeÌ„deth vpon the worcked of meÌ„ Because we say that God sanctifieth al that he saueth Therefore we hold salvation by workes Because we hold that faith which is without fruictes to be deade worthles Therefore we hold salvatioÌ„ by workes Because God requireth obedieÌ„ce of al his seruants that enter into or remaine in his house and commandeth them to haue no â—ellowship with anie loÌ„ger then they coÌ„tynue in the same fayth obedieÌ„ce Therfore we make the stablenes of Godes CovenaÌ„t to depeÌ„de vpon our workes yea vpon the workes of others whom we must iudge What heretick or peruerted spirit could more highlie abuse deface the holy doctrines of Christ Is Mr. Giffard a teacher of the Church of England and cannot yet put difference betwixt the worcke of our salvatioÌ„ by Christ for vs the worke of Gods holy spirit the fruicts of Gods grace in vs That cannot put difference betwixt obedience mercie but that he wil make y e worck of Gods grace to abrogate Gods grace That cannot discerne betwixt the secret electioÌ„ of God Christes visible Church betwixt the temporarie iudgments of Christes Church according to the rule of Gods word and the final doome of God in his determinate councel Thus not knowing what either Gods Covenant Christes Church the communion or excommunioÌ„ therof meaneth this impious man vpoÌ„ these dotages seeketh to convince vs of his surmized heresies because we blame forsake these Babilonish confuse assemblies where al sortes of prophane and wicked are gathered together without faith or order bownde sed and suffred together in al impietie mischief and licentiousnes without censure or controlement vnto whome he for the wage of Balaam is powred forth and most sacrilegiously selleth them his pretended Sacraments for their two pennie shot or offring HE laboureth to defend this sacriledge confusion by th' examples of other Churches vnder the Lawe vnder the Gospel He beginneth with the estate of the Church vnder Moses where the rebellious Israelites whose carkases fel in the wildernes of whom the Lorde sware that they should not see his rest yet were not cast out of th' assemblie nor separated so longe as they liued nor their seed reiected So that he still beare in minde that he but beggeth the question so ofte as he compareth these confuse prophane assemblies that were neuer rightly gathered vnto nor established in the faith vnto true Churches vnto this place we answeare That he moste ignorantlie boldlie affirmeth an vntruth We reade Exod. 33. after the Israelites had made their Calf and committed idolatrie that Moses both did execution vpon the chief Idolators and with-drewe his tent and separated from the rest vntil they were reconciled vnto the Lorde Furder we reade that vpon publick notorious transgressions the Lorde executed publick iudgments sondrie tymes wherby the chief were taken away the rest brought to repentance Numb 12. 14. 39. and 25. and 21. 6. 7. We reade of separation from those of Corathes conspiracie c Numb 16. 21. 24. 26. verses We reade also Numb 12. that Miriam was separated out of the hoste vntill she was healed Likewise we reade of sondrie perticular iudgments for perticular transgressions As for breaking the Sabaoth for blaspheming c Num. 15. Whereby his impudencie is convinced But nowe if it were graunted him then which nothing
like false Prophets commanding them to take heede of them teaching them howe to knowe them by their fruictes Math. 7. 15. 16 willing them to let them alone as the blinde lâ—aders of the blinde vsing an argument of the ineuitable peril If the blinde leade the blinde both shall fal into the ditch Math. 15. 12. 13. 14. chardging them to beware of the leauen of the Pharasies Math. 16. 6. which leauen verse 12. they found to be the doctrine of the Pharasies To these if sondrie other places of his conflictes with these Scribes Pharasies be added it wil euidently appeare that he withdrewe his Disciples from their doctrines pronouncing euerie where woes iudgmentes against them That he made also a separation and especiall choise of his Disciples from the wicked people of the Iewes euidently appeareth by the office and ministerie of Iohn the Baptist. vvhom he sent as an Heralde before him to prepare his waye to proclaime his kingdome to call the people to repentance and to make readie a people to receiue him lest when he came he should smite the earth with cursing Mightely did Iohn refute all these vayne arguments allagations that Giffard alleadgeth of the seede of Abraham the outward Couenant Nation Temple c. Shewing them that God was able of stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham calling those boasting Pharasies the generation of vipers shewing them that only those trees that bring forth good fruicte are the plantes that shall stand and growe in the Lordes Orchard that the other shalbe hewen downe and caste into the fire and that the Lordes axe is nowe laide to the roote Shewing them that the Messiah of whom they boasted and whom they looked for should come with his fanne in his hand to cleÌ„se his barne floore to preserue his wheat in his granarie and to burne the chaffe with vnquenchable fire baptising none but such as coÌ„fessed their sinnes The same course toke our Sauiour CHRIST sending forth his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdome who receiued and baptized none but such as repented of their euill life and gaue obedience to their doctrine these our Sauiour acknowledged receiued taught instructed guided as his owne peculiar flocke But al the other as the sheepe of distruction he gaue ouer to be spoyled and deuoured of their owne rulers and one of an other to be guided by those wicked and idoll sheepheardes vvhose soule abhorred him and his soule loathed them Yea how ful a separation there was betwixt these sheepheardes and these flockes the hostilitie they shewed vnto our Sauiour and his Disciples by excommunicating persecuting blaspheming him and his rounde reprouing them euerie where in the historie of his life doth appeare Furder that he communicated not with them in their feastes offrings and worship in this their sinne and obstinacie appeareth as plentifully He a longe season when the Iewes laid wayte to kill him refrayned Iudea and Ierusalem At other tymes when he came thither it was not to keepe the feastes together with them so much as to take occasion vpon such concurse of people to instruct them and to call them vnto himself He sometimes went not at all sometimes went at the mid-feast And when he was there he kept not the Paschal together with them before the Temple according to the lawe Deutronomie 12. 5. Leuit. 17. But he kept yt apart with his Disciples in a priuate chamber As when there was no publicke assemblies as in Egipt or when the Temple was shut or polluted and the vvorship corrupted Exod. 12. 2 Chron. 35. yea he kept yt vpon an other daye namely vpon the 14. of the first moneth according to the lawe and not vpon that daye the Iewes kept theirs which was a daye after as appeareth euidently by the historie Math. 26. For the Iewes solemne feast or cessation ought by the lawe to haue bene vpon the 15. daye the next day after the Paschal vpon which daye they crucified our Sauiour and kept their feaste vpon the Sabaoth deferring the Paschal by their tradition one daye longer then the lawe commanded Leuit. 2. 4. 5. 6. Numb 28. 17. by all which reasons circumstances and places it is euident that our Sauiour and his Disciples did not communicate with but withdrewe from the Iewes and their worship in this their sinne and obstinacie By whose example this great Clearke Mr. GIFFARD hath endeuoured to confute the Brownistes of heresie and to prooue that the open wicked and prophane may be kept in the Church and communicated with and yet neither the Church therefore cease to be a true Church nor the faithfull which together with these prophane ioyne in the worship of God and the Sacraments be defiled therbie Yet to make the matter more sure he bringeth certaine Churches planted by the Apostles As the Church at Corinth and the Churches of Asia In the Church of Corinth were factions and schismes corruption in the teachers negligence in the Gouernours th' incestuous person suffred contentions among the people and that vnder heathen Iudges They feasted in idoll temple they prophaned the Supper of the Lorde they abused spirituall giftes some denied the resurrection of the deade yet the holie Ghost vouchsaueth them the name of the Church of God Well what of all this Therfore the wicked prophane multitudes which were neuer rightly gathered to the faith may be receiued as members into the Church We see no such consequent The Church of Corinth was orderly gathered by the Apostle vnto the faith none receiued but such as belieued and made open profession of their faith and obedience Sainctes by calling Agayne the Church of Corinth was rightly established into that order and had such Ministers Officers and ordinances as CHRIST in his Testament had assigned and th' Appostle instituted so hath not the Church of England but popish and antichristian Therfore no comparison thus far foorth betwixt the Church of Corinth and the Church of England Neither can these faults wherein he compareth the Church of England to the church of Corinth and wherein it is founde like vnto or rather far without all comparison to exceede them make the Church of England the true Church of God What is yt then this learned man would conclude from thence That the open prophane and obstinate wicked may be retained in and by the Church wittingly and willingly after admonition and yet that Congregation not cease to be the true Church of CHRIST This he striueth to proue And therfore where it is alleadged that the Church of Corinth repented at the Apostle his admonition and is by the Apostle himself said to haue shewed them selues pure in that busines 2. Corinth 7. he maketh vnto this a double answeare One that they were Godes true Church before they repented The other that all did not shewe repentance as appeareth 2. Corinth 12. 20. 21. To the first we answeare and neuer denied That they being rightly gathered vnto the faith and orderly established
Ministrie and ministration they are all like to proue as wee haue affirmed them strange false forged antichristian such as belong not vnto and cannot be exercised in anie christian Church and then let Mr. Giffard see whether that grieuous conclusion will follow and fal vpon the men vpon whom the marcke of the Beast is â—ownde that ministrie which is ordayned by proceded from and standeth vnder the throne of these antichristian Bishops In the meane while let vs in a verie few wordes consider of the rest of the ministerie in the Church of England in their order WE would gladly learne of him what office in the Church of God Chancelors and Commissaries may be said to exercise for we confesse that in Christes Testament we neuer read of their names or offices they are strangers there and we in all the worlde knowe not from whence they came or who brought them into the Church if not their Father the Pope or durste there retaine them but these his children successors the Bishopps A lardge power they haue and exercise ouer all parrish Churches their Ministers and Members to keepe a iudiciall Courte to cite coÌ„uent trie punish by muâ— ct iudge imprison absolue purge not only for ecclesiastical causes as the neglect of their ceremonies and trinckets and for not duelie reading and obseruing their iniunctions seruice-booke but also for ciuile causes yea criminatory and iudicial causes such as by the lawe of God deserue death and only belong to the Princes royall aucthoritie to whom therfore God hath committed his sworde Whose iudgment seate aucthoritie for anie priuate person to vsurpe is iudged rebellion both by the lawe of God and of this land For all that take the sworde shall dye in the sworde Math. 26. 52. Againe these Chauncelors and Commissaries are Ciuilians laye men as they cal them not Priestes therfore we meruaile how they came to exercise such an high ministrie ouer and in the Church The same we say of their other delegate ciuile Doctors of their Courtes trayne of Aduocates Proctors Registers c. We finde in the TestameÌ„t of Christ no mention in the Church of Christ no vse of such Offices Officers Courtes to decide their coÌ„trouersies to execute their censures iudgments These handle both ecclesiastical and ciuile causes mixtlie after a most corrupt and litigious maner amongst whom al things are venal in their Courtes c wherof in due place sufficeth it here to finde them in name office and vse counterfeit forged false without mention or warrant in Gods worde such as not Christ but Antichrist deuised brought in As to the persons in their high commission they are of two sortes chieflie ecclesiastical and partlie for countenance and fashion sake ciuile Of the ecclesiastical we haue aboue entreated Neither finde wee that anie ciuile person may exercise anie ecclesiastical office or function as to ouer-see so manie Churches to decide and determine ecclesiastical causes or to execute the censures of the Church as by way of office or by vertue of anie humane commission especially after that vngodlie maner which is in al things so contrarie to the order Christ hath instituted so contrary to the faith power and libertie of Christes Church as were not hard to shewe if we should examine their procedings by the rules of Gods worde And great ruth it is that so noble and honorable personages should be so highly abused by these wicked Bishops The Lorde in mercie shew them their deceipts the error and daunger of their wayes Yet of this gouerning ministrie remayneth the Arch head Deacon of the Church of England to be considered of who is no smale officer of this Church hauing and keeping his solemne iudiciall Court Synode and procedings in such ecclesiastical causes as fal within his consideration with absolute power in his owne name also to cite sommon iudge and punish all such parish Churches with their Parsons and Ministers as fal within his limites To impose taskes vpon Pastors what scriptures to reade priuately euerie daye what to conne by heart and to take accompt of them at his Synodes accordingly This Arch-Deacon also if such be his learning that he can may administer the worde and Sacramentes and haue a benefice or two for neede Howsoeuer he may pleade and boaste of his antiquitie aswell as the Arch-Bishop and of the great cause of his erection and necessarie vse of his office c. Yet seing we finde no mention of his name or vse of his office in all the Testament of CHRIST seing we finde there no such Heade Arch-Deacons with such stately Courtes and absolute iutisdiction and that not ouer many Deacons but manie of their Pastors yea manie whole Churches we must or rather the Lorde hath giuen the same sentence of them that is giuen of their fellowes aboue-said That they are not the ordinance or ministrie of CHRIST but of Antichrist euen the heades and limbes of that Beaste that wilbe held within no limites or boundes in no order or callings but breake corrupt and confounde all lawes boundes order and offices as they luste CHRIST himself is the only heade of all his Ministers whether Pastors Teachers Deacons c and they againe his members of their part The christian Deacon is to attend to the faithful collection and distribution of the benâ—uolence of the Sainctes and not to such Court-keeping ouer the Church ministrie and Sainctes He is to attend in his function to that peculiar flocke wherof he is chosen a Deacon and not in this maner to intrude and incroach vpon manie Churches A christian Deacon is to kepe himself within the boundes of his owne office in sobrietie and not to intermeddle with the Pastors office also with the ministration of the worde and sacramentes yea to exalt himself and vsurpe power and iurisdiction ouer his superiors not only ouer many Pastors but ouer manie whole Churches Thus haue we taken a superficiall veiwe or rather as yt were a sodaine blush of the reigning Ministerie of the Church of England leauing the furder inuestigation and demonstration of the manifold deformities therof to their furder diligence to whom God hath giuen greater knowledge and opportunitie leauing place also vnto Mr. GIFFARD or anie of that false hierarchie to make defence and iustification of these poyntes wherin they are here chardged by the worde of God Which if they can doe then let them be held excused and vs iustly chardged with impudent and wicked sclander In the meane while I haste to the second sort of their Ministrie THe next sorte of the ministrie of the Church of England is the Collegiat or idle Ministrie which may be diuided or rather distinguished because sometimes they are mixed ioyned one man being a master of a College and a Deane a fellowe of a house a Prebend and each of them haue a Parsonage or two for a neede into these two kindes Academical and Cathedral The third sort
most execrable idolatries as they were not to be held the true Churches of God but were pronownced by the holy Ghost whores murtherers idolaters so commanded to be iudged esteamed and forsaken of al the faithful As euerie where in those prophecies of Ezechiel Ieremiah appeareth we haue lardglie in y e SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION proued And himself in that estate confessed that they ought to be abandoned by the godlie For the generall estate in the time of our Sauiour CHRISTS Ministrie and suffringes wee haue also proued that they were that malignant persecuting Church which did excommunicate CHRIST and al that confessed and belieued in him from whom our Sauiour and his Disciples separated And now to the place of the third epistle of Iohn I vvrote to the Church but of them Diotrephes louing the primacie receiueth vs not For this if I come I vvil bring to remembrance the vvorkes vvhich he doeth prating against vs vvith malitious vvordes and not content in these neither himself receiueth the bretherē and them that vvold he forbiddeth and casteth them out of the Church These verses I haue thus englished to the worde because me thinckes the vsuall translation though in yt selfe not euil seemeth a litle too much to nourish some false collections which neither the wordes nor circumstance of the text wil beare But now what wil Mr. G. gather or conclude from this place Diotrephes he saith abused the power of gouernment ambitiouslie If he meane the power of the whole Church the power of communication it would be shewed and proued wherein If he say in that he cast the bretheren out of the Church We would first knowe of him what bretheren the Apostle there speaketh of whether those strāgers or such members of that cōgregation as were willing to receiue those strāgers and whether they were caste out by waye of excōmunication If he say those members that were willing c we affirme the whole context the argument of the Epistle precedent the faultes of Diotrephes reckoned vp the admonition subsequēt to shew the cōtrarie that he meaneth of the other godlie strangers Gaius in the premises being cōmended for interraignement of those strangers Diotrephes here blamed for these faultes Of an ambitious humor louing aspiring to be chief or first and could not endure to be vnder the Apostles 1. Therfore he receiued not the Apostles letter 2. He pratled against them with euil wordes 3. neither himself receiued these strāgers 4. But forbad them that would 5. And so kept or caste them out of the Church The admonition was that they should not imitate euil but good c. Manie reasons might be drawen from these circūstances from sondrie wordes in the original but especially by the right diuiding of these two verses it wil appeare not to be meant of the abuse of anie censure of the Church of excōmunication As also by the exhortation drawen from these faultes For how could Gaius or anie other of the Church imitate him in this when there was no more Pastors of that congregation but Diotrephes if he were a Pastor as they suppose and by their rule onlie the Pastor maie excōmunicate But what now if it were admitted which can neuer by this scripture be proued that Diotrephes did both vsurpe abuse the power and gouernment of the Church what wil Mr. G. collect and enforce from hence First that this tyrānous oppression did not make them to be no longer Christes Church which remayned vnder him Wel and what wil he cōclude hereupon That these Parishes which wittinglie remaine in bondage vnder the yoke of these popish Prelates which receiue this false antichristian ministrie this popish idolatrous worship ordināces c. are the true Churches of Christ As ther is no consimilitude except in this one poincte of euil wherin yet these Parishes far exceed so is ther no consequent or comparison betwixt a Church no Church a true Church ministrie and a false Church ministrie Neither haue we a better argumēt in al Mr. G. his booke to approue the ministrie procedings of the Church of England thē the most odious sinnes faultes of other Churches which were not recorded by the holy Ghoste for vs to imitate or to pleade for sinne by so much as left for examples and as yt were lande markes to flee sinne by Againe this Church here remayned not wilfullie vnder this tyrannie of Diotrephes They neuer had bene reproued and admonished therfore Howsoeuer we iustifie not or tollerate the least sinne that God condemneth in his worde yet we make not anie sinne vntil impenitēcie and obstinacie be ioyned thervnto to disanul and breake the Couenant with God Neither doe we make euerie inordinate and presumptuous part when the Ministers of the Church extend themselues beyonde their lyne and the limites of their office straight waye an antichristian yoke if they be not seene or repressed at the first For as it is said both the Church and Ministers may sinne in such thinges and transgresse the rule of ignorance or of negligence And so what wil this example helpe their Church which standeth wilfullie and wittinglie in seene bondage vnto these antichristian Prelates But Mr. G. saith the Apostle did not will the faithful to separate themselues or not anie longer to obeye Diotrephes in anie thing wel and euen this his owne fonde collection doth shewe that Diotrephes sinne was neither so preiudicial heynouse or publicklie knowen to the Church as he would make yt For if Diotrephes had either vsurped the whole power or abused the publique gouernment of the Church so far as to caste out of his owne sole aucthoritie in his owne name what bretheren he luste yea those of the most vertuous and charitable he had not to haue bene suffred in the Church muchlesse to haue remayned a Minister with such publicke heynouse sinnes vpon him This had bene contrarie to the lawes and rules of Christes Testament to the practize and procedings of the other Apostles to the safetie of the Church To al which it is not credible or audible that this Apostle would be so contrarie neither may it be inferred from this place without grieuous peruerting the scriptures and iniurie to the holy Ghost If Diotrephes fault had bene in this nature so heynouse and publick what needed the Apostle to say If I come I will declare or bring his worckes to remembrance the Greeke worde is hupomneso submonebo I will submonish Againe the begining of the. 10. verse Dia touto propter hoc for this sheweth an other cause an other mattter an other fault Mr. Giffardes other place Iohn 16. v. 2. serueth his tourne as euil They shal caste you out of their Synagogues yea the hower cometh that euerie one that killeth you shal thinck he doth GOD good seruice It is strange that Mr. G. should thincke and vse this as spokē of the true Church whē the verie next verse hath these wordes And these
hatched brought vs foorth this worthie reason to rest vpon If the execution of discipline by Bishops be the yoke of Antichrist and if all the Churches vvhich doe stand vnder the same doe vvorship the Beast and be not christians it must needes follow that such as did euer execute this power were Antichristes and no children of GOD at that time or before thei repented But by your owne confession manie of them died blessed Martyres I conclude therfore That the Brownistes cannot but vvith heresies and most heinous iniurie inordinate dealing condemne a Church as quite diuourced separate from CHRIST for such corruptions imperfections in Gods vvorship as be not fundamentall nor destroy the substance for that wicked men come vvith the godly to the publick exercises of religion for some wantes in calling ordaining Ministers and in ecclesiastical discipline BElike Mr. GIF is hard driuē when this old popish reason alreadie by vs answeared and now by him not ouer wel repayred is fayne to become his cheif corner stone to approue this Church in all these chardges and the only reason he can bring for the Hierarchie regiment of the Church of England By this reason his holie Father the POPE was wonte to defend his triple Crowne apostaticall Chaire Because in the same haue sit manie godly Bishops blessed-Martyres c so that if the office power and dignitie of his Popedome be antichristiā then must all these godly learned men that haue executed the same needes be Antichrists and not true members of CHRIST vntill they repent But they neuer were founde to haue repented these thinges yet are confessed by al that knewe them in that age to be learned godly Therfore M r. G. and all this horned Cleargie and Lordly hierarchie of England cannot without schisme reuoult from without heresie pronownce this holie Sea office antichristian c. Let M r. G. now he seeth the fordge issue bind or loose followe or leaue this argument at his owne pleasure perill If he suppose to escape by shewing discrepance betwixt these godly predecessors vngodly successors in manie circumstances and vertues And so thinck this reason wil not presse him half so sore as it doth vs yet let him consider though I will not be the POPES aduocate that they here reason of the same office and not of the same circumstāces and that these godly predecessors executed the self same office with these their bad successors Yea so might th'example be put as yt should be without anie great difference in circumstance also And as to the difference betwixt the persons of the one and of the other if that may be a solution to this argument we shall not greatly need to feare finding this viperous generation these idle proude wordlie fleshlie persecuting blasphemous Prelates nothing so like these their godly predecessors these Martyres in laboures humilitie bowntie spiritual holie conuersation faith patience loue of the truth of the Sainctes of CHRIST c as they are in that which is euill in these antichristian titles offices Courtes iurisdiction reuenues pompe c. Which as we before said vnto you so say we againe that no men or Angels can iustifie where Gods worde condemneth though all the Martyres in the worlde should dye in and for them We may not be leed or drawen by the examples persons of men how good soeuer from one iote of Gods reueiled truth The best men we see doe erre and sinne there neuer was or shalbe anie man that erreth and sinneth not in manie thinges But should we because good men haue donne euill and erred therfore iustifie sinne and error That were high presumption greiuouslie to tempt God and to abuse the holie Scriptures which recorde not mens faultes to that end What sinne or error might not so by th'example of some good man or Church be iustified yet these are M r. GIFF. his best reasons for his Church ministrie c. and here his only reason to approue the gouernment of these Bishops and hierarchie But now as we here iustifie allowe not any sinne by the examples persons of the godly so condemne we not these godly mens persons for sinne error vntil obstinacie be ioyned thervnto which M r. GIFF. cannot shew in these holie Martyres And therfore we denie the consequent of his Maior or first Proposition That because the office iurisdiction they executed were Antichristian therfore the men that exercised them were Antichristes and not children of God We may vtterly condemne the sinne and yet not so peremptorily condemne the sinner It is a sure position that euerie sinne is of the Deuil yet is there no consequence therof that euerie one that sinneth is of the Deuil we see no such necessitie as M r. G. would persuade of that matter The godly may sinne of ignorance of negligence of fraylety yet not thervpon vntill obstinacie be added vnto sinne cease to be christians These godly Martyres so lately escaped out of that smokie fornace of the popish Church could not so clearely discerne and sodenly enter into the heauenly beautiful order of a true established Church It is more thē one dayes worcke to gather to plante and establish a Church aright much more so manie thowsand seuerall Churches as are supposed in this land It can be no wonder that those godly men being so vnexpert and vnexercised in his heauenly worcke neuer hauing liued in seene or hearde of any orderly cōmunion of Saīnctes anie true established Church vpon earth of so many hundreth yeeres euer since the general defection vnder Antichrist so much foretold of in the Scriptures no maruaile I say if they erred in setting vp the frame But what then should we therfore iustifie or persist in their errors especially should we reiect the true paterne of CHRISTS Testamēt which reproueth our workes and sheweth vs a better course should we not suffer our worckes to burne after the maner of these deceitful workmen of these tymes God forbid For thē should we receaue their reward perish with our worckes Now to the second propositiō of this argument we haue alreadie expressed our minde concerning the suffringes faith and death of these Martyres We finde them obstinatly to haue resisted no part of Gods worde or truth he gaue them sight of at anie tyme but to haue bene verie faithfull constant euen vnto bandes death in that truth they were come vnto Furder we doubt not but they truly repented them of al their sinnes knowen and faithfully laid hold of Gods mercie in Christ Iesus for al their secrete vnknowen sinnes Gods grace we are assured is so much greater then all our sinnes as the sea is greater then one dropp of water Therefore we doubt not of their happie and blessed estate all their sinnes these false offices ministrie which they executed in their ignorance amōgst the rest being forgiue them Th'example then errors of these
continueth in this estate a true established visible church within y e outward Couenāt of God so far as we may ought to iudge by his worde thē doubtlesse for mie part I wil graunt yt a sounde Maior proposition And if he shal bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor I must then yeild to his argumēt Because y◠church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered established and within the couenant Yet euen then I suppose yt wil be harde for him to make the like assured proof that euer her daughter of England was rightly established into that christiā order within the couenant But I doubt rather and by her present estate iudge that she was among the childrē of her Mothers fornications and therfore without the Couenant To the second reason it will also hardly followe that because some faithful men haue bene called to some generall knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate that this should therfore iustifie the outward estate of the Church which the worde of God condemneth or prooue yt in this estate the true established Church of Christ when they haue nothing aright according to Christes ordinance as we haue prooued in this treatise whether I refer for a more ful answeare of these reasons hasting to the second poyncte Wherein I before shewed how God commandeth al his faithful seruantes of what estate or degree soeuer to flee out of Babilon the false Church and being escaped not to stand still to remember the Lord a far off to let Ierusalem come into their minde to goe vp to SION to seeke out and to repaire vnto the place where God hath put his name To seek the Church and the kingdome of CHRIST to take his yoke vpon them to assemble together in his name with his promise of direction and protection and with his authoritie to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them giuen by him to the ministrie and gouernmēt of his Church vnto the worldes end there to leade their liues together in all mutuall duties in his holie order faith and feare Now as we shewed all perticular and priuate men whosoeuer to be called out of the false Church from confusion and out of the world from dispersion vnto the true Church vnto order So likewise shewed we that all these faithfull persons whosoeuer were as yet but priuate men at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together none of them being as yet called to anie ecclesiasticall office or function in the Church yt not being as yet established into order Wherevpon we concluded and still of necessitie enforce That seing God calleth all his seruantes out of confusion and will not haue them liue in dissipation or disorder but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his worde And hath giuen his Church aucthoritie and commandement to erect retaine and obserue this order vnto the worldes end And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of priuate men That therfore the faithfull being as yet but priuate men ought by the commandement of God to assemble ioyne themselues together in the name faith of Christ and in all mutual dueties orderly to proceede according to the rules of the worde to a holy choice vse of such offices ordinances as Christ hath ordayned to the seruice gouernment of his Church And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorāt of the scriptures he could not but haue seene by the verie phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures The secōd by many prophecies of this general defection and if not verified in these present tymes yet he cannot denie but some former not long sithence Therefore whilest he fighteth with the conclusiō he but spurneth against the prickes bewraieth the folly of his owne heart and no waye auoydeth or defendeth the daunger therebie His best answeare to this reason or rather manie reasons summed vp is as he thinketh to tourne it away by two questions and by manifold contumelies against our poore persons or to say as yt is by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God likening the assemblie of the faithful gathered in the name and ioyned together in the faith of Christ proceding to th'establishing and exercise of Christes or dinances to the rebellious company of Corath Dathan Abyram to a rowte of mutynous prentices assembled without leaue of their Prince to chuse a Lorde Maior c. His first question is That if all were priuate at the first comming out of the false Church who they were that caled them together Or whether their cōming together doth make them otherwise then priuate We answeare that for anie thing we can see or may iudge by the word they were but priuate men that first caled them out of the false Church and that caused them to assemble together howsoeuer peraduenture indued with more excellent giftes and more rare graces then other Furder that being thus assembled they ceased not to be priuate men vntil they were lawfully caled vnto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church Yet al this notwithstanding the Church in this estate nowe consisting onlie of priuate men ought to procede to a right choice of Ministers c according to the commandement of God His next stombling-block or question is VVho should ordaine these Pastors Elders And whether we euer read of any ordained but by Apostles Euangelistes Pastors Teachers and Gouernours And vvhether that power vvas not at the first deriued from th'extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie To this we haue aboue answered where wee entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England and here againe doe answere That the Church had alwaies the power to chuse and ordaine their owne Ministers wherevnto yt ought to vse the most fit instruments whether these Pastors Teachers Elders if such be to be had or ells where they be not to be had to vse the fittest meanes and instrumentes that God exhibiteth For this power of ordination is not as Mr. G. and the vnruly cleargie of these dayes suppose deriued from the Apostles Euangelistes vnto the permanent ministrie of Pastors and Elders neither belongeth yt by anie peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church But yt is giuen by Christ and properlie belongeth vnto the Church wherevnto their Ministrie and persons also belonge and are by the Church to be vsed vnto this worck as occasion is administred And thus if a vaile were not laid ouer Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures he might finde that those cheife builders the Apostles Euāgelistes themselues vsed this power not to take yt from the Church but therein to assist the Church As we reade Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled vnto fasting prayer and other holy exercises yt is there said also that they layde handes vpon the Apostles and sent them