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A65842 A brief discovery of the dangerous principles of John Horne (a priest in Lin) and Thomas Moore junior both teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians, (and called by some free-willers or independants.) In answer to their book called A brief discovery of the people called Quakers, and a warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles, &c. Which book is a false narrative of two disputes, the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire, and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger, at Lin in Norfolke, both in the seventh moneth, 1659. Also priest Horns testimony against his brethren the priests. This is to go amonst the professors in England in discovery of the truth; ... By the truth which is in George Whitehead. John Whitehead. George Fox the younger. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.; Whitehead, John, 1630-1696. aut; Fox, George, d. 1661. aut 1659 (1659) Wing W1896; ESTC R220960 30,510 44

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sinner but clear and perfect from sin And whosoever sinneth hath neither seen Christ nor known him Now they that affirm that the Saints or they that be born of God are sinners they might as well say that the Saints have neither seen Christ nor known him And where it is said he that is born of God cannot sin John Horn and Thomas Moore have given their meaning to it which is it 's no more then a man acted and led of God cannot therein sin they say which is no more then to say that a man that is acted of God cannot sin in being acted of God or he that doth righteousness doth not sin in so doing so that still they reserve an accusation against him that is born of God for being a sinner whereas John saith be not deceived he that doth righteousness is righteous even as Christ is righteous in whom is no sin 1 John 3. 7 8. And now further see how they have accused the Apostle Paul J. Horn and T. Moores words are these Yea in 1 Tim. 1. 16. he saith he was then when an Apostle the chief of sinners Answ. So here they have accused Paul to be the chief of sinners when an Apostle when as the same Apostle saith in that 1 Tim. 1. 12. That Christ counted him faithful putting him into the Mi●istry but these accusing Paul then to be the chief of sinners when an Apostle they might as well say that he that is faithful to Christ is the chief of sinners when as it is said that Christ came to save sinners of whom I am chief and saith he had obtained mercy now it doth not follow that Paul was then one of the chief or greatest sinners when faithful but he was one of the chief of sinners that were saved by Christ who saveth his people from their sins and doth not suffer them to remain the greatest sinners when they are saved from sin as they here have accused Paul And as for these Scriptures you bring 1 John 1. 8 9 10. and James 3. 1 2. these prove not what you would have them that the Saints were not perfectly freed from sin in this life they did not preach up sin and imperfection to remain in them while in this life as you do for both James and John exhorteth them otherwise for said James let patience have her perfect work that you may be perfect and entire wanting nothing James 1. 4 and John said If we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the Blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin 1 John 1. 7. and chap. 2. 1. My little children these things write I unto you that ye sin not and if any man sin we have an Advacate with the Father So he did not include them all as to remain sinners for they were all sinners while they were not cleansed by the blood of Christ Now we ask these men aforesaid seeing Paul was counted faithfull and James a servant of Jesus Christ and John the beloved of Christ what one sin or sins can they lay to their charge or to any of them which they were not freed from before their decease let them prove some sin which was not destroyed in any of these before their decease and who can lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect let them speak out and answer directly or for ever be silent from pleading for sin and accusing the righteous as they have done John did not say if we say we are not all sinners we deceive our selves but if we say we have no sin and if we say we have not sinned which if the little children whom John wrote unto that they might not sin had sin then John might say we have sin for he numbred himself with them as friends or those whose sins were forgiven and yet the young men and Fathers he wrote to had overcome the wicked one and had the word of God abiding in them 1 John 2. and as for that of Prov. 20. 9. who can say I have made my heart clean this is not against us for we do not say that we our selves have made our hearts clean it being Christs work to cleanse and for ever to have perfected them that are sanctified Heb. 10. 14. and Solomon saith the just man walketh in his Integrity and the righteousnesse of the perfect shall direct his way Prov. 11. 5. and 20. 7. And as for that of Eccle● 7. he saith all things have I seen in the dayes of my vanity there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousnesse and a wicked man that prolongeth his life in wickednesse but he that feareth the Lord shall come out of them all forthere is not a just man upon earth Mark for there among them that were in the changeable state not among them that are borne of God for they cannot sin because the Seed of God abides in them and they in it neither can the wicked one touch them 1 John 5. 18. J. Horn and T. Moore say There is no man that sinneth not It is true indeed that Christ said of Nathaniel that he was an Israelite in whom was no guile John 1. 47. Answ. Here you may see how they are confounded in what they themselves bring there was some in whom was no guile contrary to what they affirmed before against perfection and as for that 1 King 8. 6. it is said if they sin against thee for there is no man that sinneth not Mark the words for there again among them that sinned against God and this was in the time of the old Covenant Solomon spoke these words which Covenant they brake but now the Lord makes a new Covenant with his people when he takes away their sins not according to the old Covenant which the Israelites brake Heb. 8. and Solomon also said let your heart be perfect with the Lord your God and walk in his Statutes and to keep his Commandements as at this day 1 King 8. 61. J. Horn saith It is not said that there was no sin in Nathaniel and though I pleaded that all sin is guile yet the contrary was testified from 1 Pet. 2. 1 2. where hypocrisie and envie and malice and evill speakings are distinguished from Guile Guile being a deceitful hiding a mans sin or deceit Answ. Here John Horne would accuse Nathaniel to have sin in him when as Christ said there was no Guile in him John 1. 47. and so here he hath affirmed as much as that all sin is not Guile and so would distinguish hypocrisy and envie from being guile and yet confesseth Guile to be a deceitful hiding a mans sin or deceit now let any that have understanding see these mens ignorance what is not hypocrisy a deceitful hiding a mans sin and is not every sin deceit and deceit Guile see their confusion and this being John Hornes reason to prove all sinne not Guile because it is said in 1 Pet. 2.