tyme with this good man entre in this mater in to seryouse ernest argumentes But I shall shew hym a good mery cause wherfore that though I be of hys mynde therin yet I dare not aduise them there to The cause is that I se them haue so greate desyre feruent concupyscence towarde it that I am aferde to counsayle theym folowe it bycause of the scrypture that sayth Post concupiscentias tuas ne eas After thy concupyscences goo thou not ¶ I wyll make no lenger tale vpon this mater For if you rede my .xxvii. chapyter in whyche my wordes are that we now dyspute vppon I truste you shall not thynke theym so very farre out of the way but y t they maye be wryten without offence of Chrystes gospell well inough ¶ And also concernynge this word proude worldely countenauÌ„ce wherof we speke here vouchesaufe good readers to rede my .xxx. chapyter of myne apologye whych begynneth in the lefe .174 The .xi. chapyter HIs .xi. chapyter begynneth in the xxxvi lefe wherin fyrst he sheweth y t I reherse ryght and constre amysse thys worde of his And therfore ¶ You shall fynde my wordes good readers vppon these whole wordes that he reherseth here in the .xxxiiii. and .xxxv. chapyter of myne apologye of whyche to tone begyyneth fo 183 the tother begynneth fo 184. ¶ Here this man declareth that the worde of his boke whyche here also he well trewly reherseth do not importe that hym selfe sayeth y e thyng whych I by those wordes and amoÌ„g other by thys worde therfore afferme there that he sayth as of hym selfe But he sayeth that the wordes proue playne that he sayeth yt but onely of the reporte of mych other folkes thynkynge and not as of hys owne sayenge ¶ Surely neyther nowe nor in any place of myne apologye I neyther haue done nor intende to charge thys man that his mynde purpose was suche in his intent as the great lykelyhed of his wordes wold geue men occasyon to thynke But vn the tother syde that the wordes haue geuyn me good occasyon and suffycyent to saye as I there haue sayde who so rede the sayd two chapyters of myne apologye shal by the whole cyrcumstauÌ„ce of the mater very wel I suppose perceyue And you shall ouer that yf after those two chapyters redde you retourne to his owne declaracyon here in hys .xi. chapyter wel perceyue also that to kouer slyly that ouersyghte of his for surely I thynke yt was none other he leueth oute properly in one place this worde therfore wheruppon a good pyece of all the mater hangeth For in the ende of the .xxvi. lefe so thus he handeleth wylyly the mater And in that he sayth that I saye playnely those wordeâ— my seflfe he sayth playnely agaynste the â—etter of the sayde treatyse whyche ye that they haue punished many persoÌ„â— which mych peple haue iudged them to do vppon wyll and not that I sayd so my selfe ¶ Now good readers in this rehersall of hys own worde he reherseth his own wordes wrong For here he leueth oute as I told you the worde that maketh the mater Whyche he rehersed hym self in the whole context before For his wordis were not that they haue punished many persons whych mych peple haue iuged them to do vpon wyl but that therfore they haue punyshed many persons whyche mych people haue iudged them to do vppon wyl c. Nowe when he sayth hym selfe that they haue punyshed many therfore that is to wyt for the same cause and hathe before also shewed a cause of his owne dyuynacyon to hath vsed the same word therfore in y e same fasshyon before and this worde therfore which sygnifyeth for the same cause hath here in his laste clause nonecessarye place to the complement of the sentence folowyng it appereth that he sayth therin two thynges bothe that they therfore that is to say for y e same cause next before spokeÌ„ of the cause y t him self ther imagineth haue punished many and also that as he sayth yt so myche people iudged the same ¶ And this shall you the more clerely marke yf you tourne these wordes And therfore they haue punyshed many whyche myche people c. in to these wordê wherof the sentence is allone And for that cause they haue punyshed many whyche myche people c. ¶ And therfore that is to saye for that cause whych I before told you that is to wyt that you shold not perceyue thys poynte this man in hys laste rehershall as you haue herde bryngynge the thynge to the tryall lefte his therfore oute But reade my sayd two chapyters than as for the sentence of his open wordes I trust you shall byleue me As for the secrete meanyng of his mynde I pray you byleue hym For so that you byleue not the shrewd wordes of hys boke I wolde to chose you sholde byleue well of the good man hym selfe ¶ Now where he saith in y e .xxxvii. lefe that he thynketh I chaunge his mater bycause I wolde be lothe to haue yt reported that myche people take yt so veryly I chaunge not his mater But trouth yt is y t I am loth to haue that thyng so reported about For trewly y e report abrode is nought all though yt were not vntrew ¶ And were as for the farther maintenaunce of hys mater he sayth that yf I make serche therin to knowe the trouthe I shall fynde that myche people take yt so that many whyche haue ben punyshed for heresye the spyrytualtye haue done yt of no loue but of wyll for such euyll mynde as in the booke ys there ymagyned of them he hath of lykelyhed hym selfe made serche to fynde yt so For as for me though I go not aboute to serche that poynte of purpose yet I haue talked wyth many one in this meane whyle yet I thaÌ„ke god it is not my fortune to fynde out that same mych people that take yt so And yf there were myche people that so dyd yt were they re owne faute wherin I can not deuyse what the spyrytualty myght do to chaunge theym but onely praye god to mende theym And as for me yf there were myche people that so toke yt as I truste in god veryly there is not I wolde as my dutye were be surely very sorye for theym but in thys cause of trouth trewely I wolde not flater theym For though that sorte of people were neuer so myche in dede yet is the trouth in that poynt so clere agaynste theym that yf they re myndes were suche yt were bothe great shame for theym to saye yt and also great synne to thynke yt ¶ And surely that they re sayenge ys false and noughte in hys owne secrete iudgement you maye se good reders by this y t he laboureth so sore to put yt from hym selfe and wolde be so lothe to haue yt taken for hys owne And therfore whyle hym selfe thought they re sayeng so false he sholde
neyther seeth assemblies nor can assygne and proue any conspyracy mutuall ê“myse in assystyng eche other about the procurement of any thynge at all good or bad For where as he sayth y t these be some of the confederacyâ—s that he ment I am sure no man douteth but that these be eyther all he coÌ„federacyes that he fyndeth or ellys at the leste wyse the greatest And thenne are those that he calleth here partyculare confederacyes so chyldyshe that in good faythe I myche meruayle that his herte could serue hym for very shame to speke of theÌ„ And theÌ„ the tother y t be taketh for generall coÌ„federacyes he neither seeth nor assygneth so mych as any asseÌ„bly about theym or promyse or abettement to procure and pursue theym And therfore though some prestes wold here or there speke of them as theyr owne affeccyon sedeth theym this is farre fro the nature and name of confederacye ¶ And yet when he hath al to gether done whyle he proueth nothynge at the vttermoste though all that he sayeth were as trew as yt is not but that they wolde fayne haue the tythe of tymber styll and that they wolde fayne haue the mortuaryes styll and that some wolde fayne haue greater wages and some wolde fayne haue more money at the beryalles then for all they re fayne wyllynge they can gete when they wold onely fayn haue yt and yet in dede gete nought of yt nor other folke nothynge lese to make now so great a mater of this and call yt an hyghnouse name of confederacyes ys as me semeth somewhat lyke to hym that wolde nedes haue an accyon agaynste his neyghbour bycause his neyghbours hoâ—se stode and loked ouer his hedge For he sayde that he sawe by hys countenaunce that he wolde haue eaten hys grasse yf he coulde haue goten to yt For as for that that the hedge letted hym was lytle thanke to hym for hys wyll was neuer the lesse And thus hys .xix. chapyter you se good readers howe lytle reason is in yt The .xx. chapyter HIs .xx. chapyter begynnynge in y e lxxvi lefe hath so lytle effecte substaunce in it and so faintly defendeth his formare mater whyche yt pretendeth to defende that I puroose to make no longe worke aboute yt ¶ For yf you rede fyrste his wordes as they lye in mine Apology fo 159 in the seconde syde begynnynge at these wordes And here me thynketh I myghte saye ye shal there good readers fynde that I reherse those wordê of his euyn whole wyth those wordes in them which he wold in the begynnynge of this his .xx. chapyter make men byleue that I had wythdrawen as though they were wordes of suche substancyall effect that I wold not haue it appere in my boke that he had wryten so piththely ¶ Afterwarde in a nother place where they be rehersed again fo 162 then preÌ„ter of lykelyhed left them out of ouersyght hast And surely they be not of so great weyght but y t if the authour had hym selfe left them out in his boke of dyuysyon yt had made lytle mater And yf he had ouer that left out the whole clause then hadde he lefte in hys boke one lye the lesse and hys boke the better by so myche For wherby proueth he that the spyrytuall rulers pretende theym selfe to be so clene and pure that there ys no defaute in theym but all in the people alone and in theym selfe no maner faute at all Where herde he euer any spyrytuall man saye thys by the whole spyrytualtye or by any one man therof ¶ They confesse theym selfe to be men and synners And they confesse and knowledge also that the very cause of thys chyefe myschyefe that nowe begynneth to make dyuysyon that ys to wytte the execrable heresyes whyche myschyefes thys good mannys euyll dyuyses with chaunge of good lawes were lykely to mayntayne yf men wolde folowe theym dyd bothe begynne and ys also sette forthe auaunced forward by those vngracyouse folke that are suche amonge the spyrytualtye as Iudas was amonge thapostles thys not in thys realme onely but in otheâ— countreys to As by frere Luther and preste Pomerane Otho the monke and frere Lambert frere Huskyn and Swynglius here in Englande Tyndale frere Barns George Ioy some other suche as with the sede of sedycyouse heresye haue so wen and set forth dyuysyon ¶ Thys thynge the spyrytualtye bothe knoweth knowledgeth And therfore they do not pretende as thys pacifier sayth they do that there hath ben no faute amonge theym but all amonge the people And therfore this good man where he sayeth that I lefte out thre wordes in that clause of his which yet I did put in indede hym selfe hadde somwhat amended hys mater with leuyng in of one lye the lesse yf he had left out the whole clause all to gether ¶ As to that y â— he sayth I chaunged his wordes in y e ende froÌ„ these wordê the syghte of grace that ys spoken of before wyll not appere into 〈◊〉 wordes the syghte of grace tha◠〈◊〉 spoken of byfore be wyth you noâ— and euer more amen therin he sayeth very trewe For syth â—e was fallen into preachynge I not onely in the fyrst place rehersed hym as he spake hym self but afterward also in the seconde place I toke the payne for hym to mende his collaâ—yon in that poynt make yt ende some what more lyke a sermoÌ„ with a good gracyouse prayour Then goeth he forthe and in the same lefe and the next folowyng he maketh a suspicyouse mater and can not tell what mynde I was of in chaungynge his worde spyrytuall rulers into this worde prelates But loke good readers vppon the place and you shal se that I dyd yt of good cause For I do not there saye that he sayth prelates but I saye there that peraduenture he wyll saye so And also besydes this that there yâ— no very great dyfference betwene these wordes the prelates and the spirytuall rulers the chauÌ„ge from this worde the spyrytuall rulers into this worde prelates semed me the more mete and more proper for the mater that the pacifier speketh in that place where he speketh of auâ—horite y t they pretende and obedyence that they clayme ¶ Howe be it rather then I wolde geue any cause of dyuysyon agaynst me to hym that vseth to make great dyuysyons vpon smale groundes I shall be content to geue hym his own worde agayne And therfore I pray you good readers euery of you meÌ„de your bokis in the stede of prelates in that place put in spyrytual rulers And wheÌ„ you so haue done y e chauÌ„ge shal for the mater not be very great yet so myche as it shal be shal more serue me then hym ¶ But yet to make me sory y t euer I was so farre ouersene as to take a way his gay golden worde of spyrytuall rulers from hym he begynneth as it were with a great thret â—
sayth What maysâ—er More meaneth to chaunge these wordes spyrytuall rulers into prelates I can not teâ—l But nowe by occasyon of the wordes that mayster More hathe spoken I wyll saye fartheâ— in the mater then I hadde thought to haue done ¶ Howe happy was I so y t I had not the grace to let his owne worde stande For now wyll he saye farther in the mater thenne euer he hadde thoughte to haue done And that ys sayth he this That I thynke veryly that if so great an ouersyght fell in to prelates and spyrytuall rulers that they wolde take vppon them to preache herely that they wolde that the people sholde byleue theym therin and to take yt to be catholycall that they preached For who wolde preache any thynge but suche as they wold haue theyr audyence byleue ¶ Byleue me good readers that thys man weneth he sayeth well fauoredly in this poiÌ„t wherin he taketh such pleasure that afterwarde fo lxxix he falleâ—h into the same agayn and sayth thus Maysâ—er More goâ—th about onely to proue that all my tale ys losâ—e bycause prelates pretende not to be byleued yf they preache heresye as he taketh yt that I sholâ—e saye they do And yet I sayde not so in dede And yf I dyd say so I sayde but trewly For yf they dyd preache heresye yt is certayne that they wolde loke to be byleued as I haue sayde byfore ye and yf they wolde preache and saye that yf they preched heresye that they wolde the people sholde not byleue theym yet yf they dyd after preache heresye in dede they wolde loke that the people sholde byleue theym For they wolde saye that they were no heresyes that they preached For who wyll confesse that he preacheth heresye ¶ Nowe good readers here haue I ioyned you to gether this good maÌ„nis gaye wordes in two places wherin I perceyue he pleaseth hym selfe ryght well But to th entent that you may se whether he haue so good cause as he weneth consyder well his wordes and myne byfore wheruppon he cometh to thys poynte For he maketh as though I wythoute occasyon geuyn of his wordes hadde writen that the prelates pretende not to be byleued yf they wolde preache heresye Wherin whether he saye trew or not you shall se by hys owne wordes whyche are these The lyghte of grace wyll not come as longe as the spirytuall rulers pretende that theyr authoryte is so hygh and so immedyate of god that the people are bound to obay them to accepte all that they do and teache wythoute argumeÌ„tes resysâ—ence or grudgynge ¶ Nowe good readers fyrst consyder well here in these wordes of his what wysedome the man hath shewed in makynge suche a mumblynge of chaungyng spyrytuall rulers into prelates For when he saith here that the spyrytuall rulers pretende that theyr authoryte is so hyghe what doute is there but though he meane other rulers mo besyde whom he calleth no prelates yet he meaneth prelates to ye prelates specyally to And then when he sayth that the prelates the other spyritual rulâ—rs pretende this or that may I not wel say that he sayth y e prelates pretend this yes veryly that I may And yet in so chauÌ„gyng his worde I chaunge it to his aduantage not vnto myne in y t I make his odyouse sayenge myche lesse and nothynge more And thus fyrste you se good readers this mannys myche ouersyght in fyndynge of that faute ¶ Now consyder farther good readers y t he sayth in those wordes not that the spyrytual rulers y t is to saye both the prelates all the remanaunt to pretend theyr authorite to be hygh and so immedyatly deryued fro god that the peple are bouÌ„d to obey them in this thynge or that thynge one or twayne or tenne or twentye but vtterly to accept and obaye not onely all theyr teachyngê but also al theyr doynges to and neyther argue resyst nor grudge at any maner thyng that they wold eyther teache or do ¶ This generall thynge he saythe And therfore though I deale as you se so fauorably with him in my .xxvii chapyter of myn Apologye as to dyuyde y e mater aske whether he meÌ„t yt by theyr whole authoryte or part I myght well vpon these wordes of his haue taken it y t he had very shamfully belyed them had sayde y t they had preteÌ„ded to haue theyr whole authoryte iÌ„mediatly of god euery whit For if I wold so haue sayd his generall wordes wolde well haue warraunted myne Also syth his saynge is so generall and extendeth vtterly not onely to all theyr techyngê but also to al theyr doynges to sayth that they pretend y t by goddes immediate ordynaunce the people shold accepte all to gether both al y â— euer they say all y t euer they do by how many maner thynges myght I haue confuted his saynge and haue proued it false ¶ But yet his sainge beyng such I toke but one thyng y t was such as for y e mater y t we both specially spake of was next at hand And therfore I sayde that they pretende not to haue suche an authoryâ—e that men sholde obay thâ—ym in all thynges for they pteÌ„de not to haue authorite to bynde mâ—n to byleue and obay them yf they wolde preache heresyes But they pâ—â—ynly professe that if they so wold men shold not byleue theym nor obey them therin ¶ Here you se that where he sayth that he ment not that the prelates woâ—de preache heresye he speketh all besyde the purpose For I sayde not that he eyther so sayd or so ment But I sayde and yet saye that in those wordes he sayde that yf they wolde preche heresies they do now pretende that by the authorite whyche god hathe geuyn theym the people were thenne therin bounden to beleue and obey theym And in hys so sayenge I there sayde and yet saye that he sayth very farre vntrewe and that they pretende yt not but playnely preteÌ„de the coÌ„trary And thus in this poynt that he maketh a mater without grownd or cause and that hym selfe with his owne wordes gaue me good occasyon to wryte the thynge that I wrote this you se good readers proued very playne ¶ But now consyder his other wordes wherin he lyketh hym selfe so well and weneth y t he proueth y t the spyrytuall rulers of the realme pretende that yf they wolde preche heresye the people were by goddes ordynaunce bounden to byleue obey them therin bycause they wold than say y t it were none heresye In thys poynt hys reasonynge hath I promyse you a lytell more subtylte than substaunce and yet but symple subtylte neyther ¶ Fyrste as for his case that yf all the spyrytuall rulers wolde preche heresye yf he had ment of the spyrituall rulers of all chrystendome I wolde haue admitted his case none other wyse but as men put admitte a case impossyble to se what myghte ensew theron yf it
though by goddes grace he desyreth not that it so shold yet out of dowte in dede sholde turne to thencoragynge of heretykes and encreace of heresyes wyth the mynysshement and decaye of the catholyke chrysten fayth wherupon wold not fayle whych almyghty god kepe from vs his greuouse indygnacyon vpon vs. And therfore god kepe vs from suche reformacyons ¶ Now to laye to me therfore as a greate fawte that I blame his boke in those vntrew some sayes that vnder colour of ceacynge dyuysyon excyte and set forth dyuysyon but yf my selfe coulde ceace it Whan suche bookes make it is myche lyke as yf he wold say that there ought no man to blame hym that wolde burne vp a nother mannes howse but he that wolde buylde it agayne ¶ And therfore with thys good reason of his be putteth me in remembraunce of an answere that a man of myne made ones myche after the same fashyon I had sometyme one with me called Clyffe a man as wel knowen as mayster Henry Patenson This Clyffe hadde bene many yeres mad but age had taken from hym the rage so that he was metely well waxen harmlesse among folke In to Clyffes hed came there some tyme in his madnesse such imagynacyons agaynst images as these heretykes haue in theyr sadnesse For lyke as some of them whych after fledde and ranne awaye and some fell to thefte and were caught pulled down of late vpoÌ„ LondoÌ„ brydge thinmage of the blessed martyr saint Thomas so Clyffe vpon the same brydge vppon a tyme fyll in talkynge vnto an image of our blessed lady and after suche blasphemyes as y e deuyll putte than in hys mouth and now a dayes bloweth out by y e mouthes of many heretykes whyche seme they neuer so sad be yet more madde than he he sette hande vppon the chylde in her arme and there brake of y e necke And afterwarde whan honest men dwellers vppon the brydge came home to myne howse and there blamed Clyffe before me and asked hym wherfore he brake of the chyldys necke in our ladys arme whan Clyffe hadde herde them he began to loke well and erenestly vpon theÌ„ and lyke a man of sadnesse and grauyte he asked theym tell me â—hys amonge you there haue you not yet sett on hys hed agayne No ê™ they we can not No ê™ Clyffe by y e masse it is the more shame for you Why speke you to me of it than ¶ And euyn thus answereth me now thys good man whyche where hys sedycyouse some sayes set forth diuysyoÌ„ and breke the chyldys necke rekeneth it a shame for me to fynde any fawte wyth hym for y e brekynge but yf my selfe coulde glew it together agayne ¶ And therfore where he sayth that I sholde haue proued that all the causes that he layeth as causes of dyuysyon be no causes of dyuysyon or ellys I sholde haue deuysed the remedyes albe it I haue answered hym therin all redy yet thys I saye therin ferther that I haue proued wel clerely y t the very chyef cause y t he sayeth is layd very vntrewly that is to wytte the mysse handelyng the people to theyr destruccyon vppon suspycyon of heresye Whyche cause yf it were as trewe as yt ys false were so weyghty that it were well wurthy to be layde for a mater of dyuysyon And whyle it is not trewe yet by suche kookes beynge blowen aboute in euery parte of the realme for trewe maye well mysse happe to make a dyuysyon whyle the dwellers in euery quarter aboute by credence geuen to the booke may at the fyrste face wene that though it be not so there as they dwell them selfe yet wene I saye that it were so in al other places Wherof though they shall by leysoure perceyue the contrary wyth serche yet they that aske no ferther questyon shall byleue it styll And so a rumour onys begonne and spredde abrode ys not after soone remoued ¶ Nowe as for hys other causes of thys dyuysyon dyuerseâ— I haue towched and shewed suffycyentely that they be not suffycyent But as for me to peruse hys whole booke of dyuysyon thorow was no parte of my purpose For yf those thynges that I dyd towche hadde semed to me tollerable I wolde in good faythe haue bene lothe to haue towched theym eyther In whyche whyle with hys consideracyons and declaracyons he goeth about now to shew that he than ment none harme I wyll not therin mych hynder hym but be gladde rather to forther hym in thexcuse of hys menynge and so dyd I as I haue sayd euyn in myne apologye to But though I be glad to excuse his own mynde in the menyng yet can I not excuse his vnwyse folowynge of false wyly counsayle in the doynge The .iii. chapyter THe .iii. chapyter coÌ„teynyng hys secoÌ„d consyderacyoÌ„ rede and coÌ„syder it who so lyste for I can se nothynge in it to be consydered by me For in effecte in conteyneth no thynge ellys but that he wolde the clergye shold as myche as they may auoyde all accasyon of murmure and grudge of the temporaltye towarde them but yf it be pharysaycal grudge ye and though the dede that they sholde forbere were good in whych poynt bycause that one poynt wolde waxe a songe worke I wyll fall in no dyspycyons But in as farforth as he geueth any man good counsayle and wysheth all thynge well so farforth shall he and I not varye but and he call me to hym I wyll syt and pray for yt wyth hym ¶ But yet where he sayth in th ende of the chapiter that I endeuour my selfe very myche to oppresse al them that wyll shew suche thynges of the spyrytualtye in dede some suche as haue made suche lyes I haue tolde yt theym But as for any oppressyon let hym proue one and let hym call that one .xx. And if he can ê“ue none as I wote well he caÌ„ not then good reders let hym be beleued therafter ¶ More ouer where he sayth that I in my mynde proue yt an intollerable defaute in the people for mysse iudgynge the clergy where as I thinke they haue no cause so to do and that therin I leue theym as though all the whole cause and pryncypall defaute were in the temporaltye wherin he sayth that my iugement is farre deceyued in this poynte good reder he sayth somwhat to me yf he sayde trew And sure yf he thought that he wrote herein trewe then wysedome wolde he sholde haue wryten myne owne wordes in And yf he fered that yt wolde be founden false then honestye wolde that he sholde haue leste hys owne wordes oute But veryly good readers and he seke thys seuen yere he shall in all myne apologye fynde you no suche wordes of myne But he shall fynde farre the contrarye For I do there I wote well in suche places as I shewe that men were vnreasonable that wolde take thys thynge or that thynge suche as I reherse of hys bryngynge forthe for any reasonable cause of dyuysyon there
tale as of his own ê‘fyt knowlege I wold so litle doute yt to be trew y t I could beleue yt no better though all the town told yt with hym Lo what a great vntrouth I lay here to the iuryes ¶ And this I say for my selfe And now wyll I with this good mannys leue saye yet a lytle farther and I wene I shaâ—l not say so alone I suppose veryly that there be very few but so that it myghte make a fynall ende in theyr mater excepte happely some such as trust more in the fauour of the countrey then in the trouthe of theyr cause they wold rather be content to put yt whole into the iudges handes then trouble the countrey wyth callynge vppe of the iuryes whose trouth yet many tymes deceyueth them that in an euyl cause haue very great truste vnto theym ¶ And yet in all this saye not I that the commen order and longe conâ—ytynued law of this realme to trye the maters by iuryes in felony or treason neuer to ê“cede but vpon endyghtementes is not good nor that the coÌ„trarye waye were better Mary two thynges I saye that in treason and felonye this ordynarye lawe of endyghtemeÌ„tes is many tymes fayn to be holpen forth by a nother meane myche lyke in many thynges to the suyte ex officio and that ys by dylygent polytyque serche and examynacyons bysyde both by the kynges honorable couÌ„sayle the iuges iustyces of peace euery man for theyr ê‘te in euery ê‘te of the realm els wold there many such mischiefê passe by by indightemâ—t neuer wold be fouÌ„deÌ„ And some great and clerely proued felonyes byfore dyuerse and ryghte worshypfull of the kinges counsayl haue I wyste ere thys that neuer coulde be goten to be founden by endyghtement in they re countreys for all that How be yt suche examynacyons hathe caused yet many myscheuouse people to be brought to they re punyshement and haue put also many suche other vnthryftes in fere made them refrayn fro theuyng and drawe them selfe to thryfte or elies not wytstandynge that there are yet theuys ynough there wold be wythout doute many mo ¶ The tother thynge that I wyll say is this that all these dyfferences dyuersyties that this good man putteth here betwene indyghtementes the suyte ex officio proueth nothing that the suyte ex officio is not good but onely at the very vttermost that the ordre not to procede wythoute an open presentement were better For 〈◊〉 sayd before though this lawe by endyghtemeÌ„tê be better in felony now yet were not the tother waye nought yf the lawe were so that the iudges myght procede and put feloÌ„s to answere without endyghtementê as in treason is vsed in thys realme by the lawe marshall vppon warre rered as we sawe by experyence in captayne Quintyn captayn Genyn Corbet and â—elke And yet is that lawe not euyll thoughe that oure owne comen law be better and that though we truste the iuryes neuer so well yet myght we truste the iudges as well And this maye I saye me thynketh without any dysprayse or fawte fyndynge in the iuryes at all For let him assygne me two iuryes of very well knowen good men than yf he wyll aske me what fawte fynd you syr in these men I wyll answer hym Mary syr no fawte at all I. I take them all for good men trewe and thynke they wyll not saye but treuth nor I neuer sayd nor thought other wyse But thaÌ„ wold I assygne hym by name one of oure iudges agayne and say now syr that I truste the trouth of your two iuryes well what fawte is that that you fynde in thys iudges trouth that maketh you to chekke me so bycause I wyll trust hâ—m no wurse than I wyll truste them For that is ye wote well al that euer I sayde that I wolde trust the iudge as well and not that I wolde truste hym better And yet yf I had sayd I wolde of the bothe trusâ—e the iudge better I hadde not by that word neyther dyspraysed the trouth of iuryes For he that sayth he wyll better bysene .xxiiii. than .xii dysprayseth not the trouth of the petit iuries but byleueth theym well also saue suche as be founden false And thus I haue shewed you that I may well say the wordes that I sayd without any fyndynge of any fawte in any iuryes And it appâ—reth also metely well that hym selfe can not well say the contrary without some maner of dystrust in theyr trouth And yet syth theyr wurshyppys be so well knowe that this good mannys dystruste can not apayre it they wyll I dare saye forgeue hym How be it sith the iudges wold as this man sayth and as I dare also saye they wolde be sore dyscontent wyth me yf I dystrusted the â—routh of the iuryes the iuryes may now no lesse do agayne of courtesye than for his wurse opinion of the iudgê trouth somewhat be angry wytâ— hym ¶ Nor herin se I none other shyfte for this good man but for the mayntenaunce of hys mater to saye that in the comen law the law wold be good inough in felonye though the truste were put in the iudges to putte traytours and felons to answere wythout indyghtement but in heresye it coulde not be good before an ordynarye and wolde saye for hys cause a dyuersyte bytwene the tone iudge the tother and saye that oure iudges be good men and worshypful euer 〈◊〉 ben and euer shall and that the ordynaryes be and euer haue bene shal be very false nought Other shyfte hath this man none that I se than euyn to saye thus And veryly his boke of diuisyon saue that it saith nothynge to the prayse of temporall iudges that I now remember yet to the dysprayse of the spyrytuall for those algates that be now saith euyn in effecte as mych ye and rather yet wurse to saue that y e colour of some say saueth hym from sayenge it hym selfe ¶ But now yf he defend hym selfe with that fasshyon agayne what the iuryes wyll say that can I not tell for the panellys be not yet called But as for oure iudges I knowe theyr wysedoms and theyr wurshyppys such that I am very sure in his so sayenge and his so lyenge vppon the spyrituall iudges they wolde can hym no thanke at all ¶ And veryly that the spyrytual ordinaryes be not at these dayes lykely to be such y e temporall iudges beyng so good as they be there is amonge many other one lykelyhed this that he hath chosen the tone that hath chosen the tother the kynges gracyouse hyghnesse hym selfe whiche hauyng on both sydes very good to chose of hath I dare say ben as cyrcumspecte in chosynge of thordynaryes as of y e iudges And yet leste in theyr absence the offycers of theyr owne choyse might happe to misseordre y e maters his grace kepeth not two bysshoppes of all the realm out of theyr diocises nor
they confesse ones ye and yet theyr one ye more trewe vppon theyr bare worde then they re twyse naye vppon a solempne o the and yet confesse they not so symplye but that it is commenly holpen wyth some suche cyrcumstaunces as make the mater more clere ¶ Nowe as to those thyngê that I wrote in my dialoge coÌ„cernyng great crymynouse wytnesses to be taken in great criminall causes he answereth wyth no worde at all How be yt to say the trouth he the lesse neded For he geueth ouer here al that faute that he founde in the chapyter In fidei fauorem as a thyngeâ— wherin hym self seeth now that he was ouersene than and therfore he setteth that here passe by as though he hadde neuer spoken therof and stycketh onely vppon y t one case of hym y t is ones forsworen ¶ But now let vs se what he sayth here coÌ„cernynge this selfe same case Fyrst he saith y t y e lawes though they must deuyse suche waysas euyll persons maye be punyshed yet the makers of the lawes must as mych as in them is prouyde that innocentes shal be saued harmelesse This is very trew as myche as in them is the tother poynt beynge prouyded for to that offendours maye be punyshed But then say I y t yt is not in all the wittes of the world for punyshemeÌ„t of myscheuouse wreches to dyuyse a sawe in suche wyse that men maye be sure that none innocent can take harme therby And then yf he graunt me this whyche whyther he graunt or no yet very trew yt is then say I that his onely reason agaynst the suit ex officio and agaynst this lawe to that is to wytte that innocentes maye take harme therby if such a reason y t yf it were folowed iÌ„ euery law wher by mysseguyded folke are punyssed there shold no law stand for theyr punysheneÌ„t at al but lest it myght misse happe that some innocent myght take harme we sholde lette all myscheuouse folke alone therby suffre many mo good innoceÌ„t men take harme ¶ But then goeth this good maÌ„ ferther sayth y t the punishement of an offender must be by a dew a reasonable order And y â— is very trew also therfore we shal agre well in that But than goth he ferther and sayth I caÌ„ not se what dew or resonable order of tryal it is that he y â— vpoÌ„ his oth hath fyrst clered hym self hâ—s neyghbour of heresyes sholbe after contrarye to his fyrste othe be receyued agayne as a wytnesse to condemne hym that he clerâ—d byfore and that in the same courte and in the same mater ¶ Though this good man can not se yt other men can se yt and haue sene it dayly do se it to wel ynough I haue sene suche thynges as thys is my selfe proued I can not tell howe often that in the excuse of a thefe some haue taken an othe that the felon was with hym in hys owne house at suche tyme as the felonye sholde be done in a nother place And a man wolde haue wente he hadde ben credyble and sayd trouth And yet afterwarde hathe hym selfe confessed that the feson and hym selfe also were at the robberye bothe twayne and hys bare worde then more trewe then byfore was hys solempne othe And euery man that hathe medeled myche wyth suche examynacyons hath a sure experyence that this ys a commen fashyon of murderers and theuys and such as are theuys receyuours of whome at the fyrste face some seme honest men are so some tyme reputed and come forth for declaracyon of them that are suspected and in trouble and depose for them and yet after vppon some other occasyon in examynynge of the mater begynne to be suspected theym selfe and afterwarde confesse yt to bothe of them selfe and theym whom they came to clere by theyr periury before And I am very sure there be not a fewe that haue herd suche euydence geuen in causes of felony dyuerse tymes to the iurye ¶ But hereuppon bycause I spake in myne apologye of suche witnesses in felonye thys good man maketh here adâ—ute what maner wytnesses I mene whyther I mene y e .xii. men that are the iury or other wytnessys that are brought into the court for to enforme theÌ„ And thaÌ„ fyrst if I mene the .xii. men than he answereth me certayn thynges to shew that he can skyll of the law But veryly as for me I shal put hym out of that dowt that I ment not them For I neuer toke the .xii. men for wytnessys in my lyfe For why shold I call them witnesses whose verdycte the iudge taketh for a sure sentence concernynge the facte without any examynacyon of the cyrcumstaunces wherby they know or be ledde to byleue theyr verdicte to be trew ¶ And also wherfore shold I mene to call them wytnesses whome I se desyre wytnesses at the barre to enforme them in the mater as wytnessys enforme a iudge He myghte therfore haue spared hys labour in y e pyece well inough For I neyther ment tht iurye nor neuer toke theym for wytnesse ¶ If he wyll aske me what they be than I saye they be the iury And yf he wyll wyt ferthermore what persoÌ„ they represent of those y t are vÌ„suall in other courtes wherin there be no iuryes vsed than can I metely wel tell hym to yf the tale were as necessary as it wolde be longe ¶ But than cometh he to the tother parte and sayth And yf mayster More by that terme witnesse mene suche wytnesse as be somtyme brought into the kynges courtes to geue euydencys to an â—nqueâ—t than to that wytnesse no suche wytnesse as the wytnesse bene in the spyrytuall courte that shall acquyâ—e or condempne the partyes for of those wytnesse so brought into the kynges court to geue euydence to an â—nqueste at the comon lawe no mencyon shall be made in the recordes ne the iury be not bound alway to folow tho wytnesse For yf the iury of theyr owne knowlege or otherwyse know the trouth agaynsâ—e the sayenge of suche wytnesse they be bouâ—den to fynde accordynge to the trouth and let tho wytnes go And yet yf it haâ—ned that such collaterall wytnes fyrst testyfyed vpon theyr othe that the partye were not gylty and after it were informed the iudges that they reuoked theyr fyrst sayeng and wold saye that the partye were gylty I can not thynke that the iudges wolde any more calle them to here theyr sayenge therin And though they wolde yet as I sayd before it were farre vnlyke to thys case For theyr sayenge there is but as an euydence whiche the iury sholde not be bounde to byleue but as y â— truth is I can not se therfore how mayster More can proue his sayenge that suche wytnesses that is to say suche as be periured in â—he same court shulde be afterward receyued as wytnes in any of the kynges courtes ¶ Now good readers euer more remember this that
rebuke of so many good worshypfull men make a boke of diuisyoÌ„ therin write euery lewde worde that any lewde folke or any false shrewes wolde tell hym Whose euyll tonges the spyrytualtye can neuer appease but yf to please theÌ„ they sholde dysplease god and without lettynge heresyes growe and go forth shold them selfe rather do euyll than let lewde folke speke euyll ¶ And now to th entent good reders that you may the more clerely se to how lytell purpose the pacifyer hath in thys poynt answered me ye shall vnderstande that my wordes in myn apology whiche he wold seme to answere well here were these fo 257. But yet is thys pacyfyer not so fauourable towarde folke suspected of heresye as to take away the power of the byshoppe for euer of arrestynge them and to dryue the ordynaryes for euer to sue cytacyons agaynst heretykes and processe of excommunicacyon but wyll haue he sayeth the bysshoppes power of arrestynge no lenger suspended thanne as longe as spyrytuall menne haue that great desyre to cause menne abiure or to haue theym punysshed for heresye as though he hadde well proued that they haue so bycause he sayeth that some men say so But now yf Some say be no sufficyent profe than is hys tale lost For than he sheweth no cause why that power of theyrs sholde in any case be more suspeÌ„ded now than in any time here before And on the tother syde yf some say be a good profe than the â—uspendynge wyll be as longe as a depryuynge for euer syth there shall neuer be any tyme in whyche there shall lacke one or other some saye to saye more than trouth ¶ Lo good readers here you se that vnto the secunde parte of these wordes of myne he answereth nothynge at all And than haue you sene before that vnto the fyrste hys answere is so feble that it had ben better for him to haue done therwyth as he dothe wyth the tother leue it vnanswered to ¶ But nowe goeth he ferther and saith Then sayth mayster More yet ferther that which is a lyghte suspycyon and whyche is a heuy and whyche wytnes be suffycyent and whych not must be weyed by the spyrytuall iudges and vppon theyr weyinge of the mater for lyght or heuy to folowe the arrest of the party or the leuynge of the arrest Now veryly in thys poynt me thynketh that mayâ—â—er More maketh a ryght good mocyon that is to saye that the mater shulde be examyned before the arreste For it hath ben sayd in tymes paste that in suche caâ—e the arrest hath many tymes gone before the examynacion Neuerthelesse vnder what maner the examynacyon and the arrest shulde be made in suche case I wyll make no deuyse at this tyme For happely mayster More wold anone fynde a defawt at it and therfore I wyll leane it to them that haue auctoryte to treate ferther of it and to dyuyse how to auoyde the mase that mayster More speketh of in hys sayd .xlvi. chapyter ¶ Now good readers this man maketh here as though I hadde geuen hym in my wordes some greate aduauntage to grouÌ„de some great mater vppon And therfore I shall reherse you what my wordê were that your selfe maye se how sore I ouersaw my selfe therin and what he meneth by the mase that he nameth here These are lo my wordes in myne apologye fo 257. yet is he content at the laste leste euery man myghte spye the perell of hys deuyce to temper hys deuyce in suche wyse that tyll the spyrytualty haue lefte theyr cruell desyre of abiurynge and punysshynge folke for heresye they sholde not be suffred to arreste folke for euery light suspycyon or euery complaynt of heresye How be it he graunteth that where one is openly and notably suspected of heresye and suffycyeÌ„t recorde and wytnes agaynst hym bysydes all that a dowte that he wolde fle wherby he myghte enfecte other than he grauÌ„teth it conuenyent that he shold be arrested by the body And therin he bryngeth in the Clementine and the statute by whcih the ordinaries haue power to arrest folâ—e for suspycyon of heresye and wold as farre as I perceyue haue the kynge reforme them after hys deuyce But yet syth whych is a lyght suspycyoÌ„ and whych is an heuy and whych is a lyght coÌ„playnt and whych is an heuy and whych is an open suspycyon and whyche but a preuy and whyche suspycyon ys notable and whyche is not notable and whyche wytnesses be suffycyent and which be not suffycyent be thynges that must be wayed by the spyrytuall iudges and vppon theyr wayâ—nge of the mater for lyght or heuy muste folowe the arrestynge of the party or the leuynge of the arreste we be come agayne as in a mase to the poynt where we beganne that be the mater greate or smale lest all the whyle they be cruell they shold iudge lyghte heuy and smale greate theyr arrestynge of any at all muste be susspended fro them and sende them to sue by cytacyon tyll men se that same mynde of theyrs of desyryng mennes abiuracyon and punysshement vtterly chaunged and ceace that is to say tyll there be no man lefte that wyll so mysche as saye that some men saye that they haue not lefte that mynde yet and make a lye agayne of theym than as those some haue done that haue so sayde all redy to syr IohnÌ„ some say now And longe wyll it be I warraunt you ere euer all suche folke fayle And therfore syth in the mean season by thys pacyfyers good deuyse hereâ—tykes maye go vnarrested I can not byleue that yf his way were folowed it wold be any good meane to make that wylful offenders in heresy shold not passe vnpunysshed as faste as bothe in the ende of thys chapyter the tother before also he calleth vpoÌ„ the kynges hyghnes and hys counsayle and hys parleament to loke vppon thys mater after his good aduertysement and neuer ceace tyll they brynge it to effecte ¶ Here you se good readers bycause thys man wyth hys deuyces bryngeth hym selfe into a mase out of whyche he can not se how to gete he wold now set other folke to study there about And wolde make theym very carefull aboute a thynge lytle nedefull For it hath well appered well ben proued to that the spyritual iuges haue yet hytherto in arrestyng for heresy ryght well examyned and considered fyrst bothe the cause and the necessyte haue ben rather therin many tymes to slow than any tyme ouer hasty And therfore I maye and wyll say here agayn as I sayd there that I lytell dowte but that yf the kynges hyghnes do as I dowte not but his hyghnes wyll do maynteyne and assyste the spyrytualty in executyng of the lawes euyn those y t are all redy made agaynst heresyes coÌ„maunde euery teÌ„porall officer vnder hym to do y e same for his part though ther were neuer mo new laues made therfore yet shall both innocentes be saued harmelesse
dyuerse other places of his apologye by kepynge secrete suche abusyons and pretences as in my conscyence haue ben moste pryncypall causes of thys dyuysyon wherof parte be recyted in the sayd tâ—eatyce and part in thys answere but not all ¶ Of these there had nede in dede to be mo some more trew and some of a lytell more substauÌ„ce to than be the most parte of these y t this good man hath layed forth yet ¶ Now here he sayeth that I kepe secrete such abusyons and pretences as be the pryncypall causes of the dyuysyon wherof hym selfe hath he sayth shewed some eyther he meaneth that those which I kept secrete be those that hym selfe hath wryten or other besyde theym If he meane other then eyther hym self knoweth theym or not If he knowe them not how knoweth he that I know them or that there be any suche at all If hym selfe knowe theym and shewe them not then he hydeth theym and kepeth theym secret hym self as wel as I. Nowe yf he meane but those that hym selfe hath wryten how can I kepe those secrete that he hath writen Can I bothe gather vppe all hys bokes and go hyde theym and also make theÌ„ y t haue redde them go vnreade them agayne or forgete what they haue redde ¶ But now after this lyke wyse as he is wonte wheÌ„ reason fayleth hym to fal to preachyng so here bycause reason faileth hym he falleth to prayenge and therin thus he sayth I beseche almighty god that he haue no power to do yt but that the trouth maye come to fyghte therin thoâ—gh he resyste yt all that he can For yf yt were knowen and the fautes charytably reformed all these dyuysyons wolde shortely haue an ende ¶ Nay perdye this man seeth well ynought that though the fautê of the spyrytualtye were neuer so fully reformed yet could not all that suffyse to brynge all dyuysyons to an ende but yf one thyng be done whych wyl neuer be done wherof which he forgeteth I gaue hym warnynge in the .116 lefe of myne Apologye in these wordes But now if thys pacyfyer to cease and quenche thys dyuysyon coulde fynde the meanes to make all the whole clergye good yet for all that syth he layeth for causes of this dyuysyon that some men saye thys by the clergye and some men saye by them that were all the clergye neuer so good in dede and serued god neuer so wel this diuisyon by his own tale yet could not for all that cease except he coulde prouyde farther that no pytuouse pacyfyer sholde in lamentynge of dyuysyon putte forthe a boke and saye that some lay men say that some of the clergye be noughte and loue they re ease and theyr welth and that some saye that those that seme beste and take moste labour and payne be but hypocrytes for all that and serue god but for vayne glorye to gete theym selfe laude and prayse amonge the people ¶ Also yf defautes sholde be charyble reformed as this man sayth he wolde haue theym yt wolde be nede then to sette a lytle more charytable folke aboute yt then those haue ben that haue begyled thys good man wyth euyll counsayle in hys bookys and haue made hym vnder pretexte of pacyfyenge dyuysyon sette forthe and encrease dyuysyon wyth dyuysynge and spredynge abrode causes of murmure and grndge makynge in some of them an elephaÌ„t of a gnat and for olde grudges bryngynge forth some suche as the people neuer had herd of tyll they redde his bokê and some of the very worst whyche were most effectuall causes yf they were trewe bryngyng forth by hepes wyth a fygure of some say and very playn lyes in dede Is this the way good readers for a pacifyer to make peace wyth and put awaye dyuysyons ¶ And nowe hymselfe handelynge the mater thus he taketh of his charyte great thought leste I go about to hynder hys holy purpose And therfore sayth I doute me very sore that maister more goeth obout rather to marre all then to endeuoyr hym selfe to make all well ¶ Whyche be the lykelyheddes now good reders that lede this good man into this gret fere Bycause I make open the shrewde mynde of hys demure countenaunce and the harmful intent and purpose of his holy holesome wordes Bycause I wolde haue the temporaltye and the spyrytualtye as the bodye and the soule of one man loue well to gether and agree and neyther of theym be glad to here euyll of other nor to geue eare to false sedycyouse slaunder but the good folke of eyther parte drawe bothe by one lyne accordynge to both the law is to represse and kepe vnder the bad and among other vyces specyall suche pestylent heresyes as elles wolde oppresse the catholyque fayth prouoke the dyspleasure of god and fyrste sow deuysyon and afterwarde rere rebellyon in y e realme as they haue done byfore thys tyme both here and in other places and y t I to thys entent geue myne aduyce to kepe styll those good lawes that bothe thys realme and all the corps of chrystendome haue long vsed and approued Bycause I thus do so therfore this good man fereth that I go about to marre all ¶ But whyle his bokes go aboute on the tother syde to make the world wene that heresyes be no causes of dyuysyon and to haue heretyques lyue in the lesse fere wyth many malycyouse some sayes falsely slaundereth the ordynaryes of cruell wrong full handelyng of the peple to dryue them by drede or by shame or other tedyouse besynes to sette heretyques alone and go aboute wyth balde reasons the beste not worthe a ryshe to put away the good lawes y t haue ben made agaynst theym vnder colour of a feruour to the faith exhorte men to go wynne the holy land and in the meane whyle yet wyth suche wyly wayes labour wyth heretyques to fyll vp the â—tretes at home by the decay of the crysten catholyke fayth prouoke y e wrath of god vpon al our heddes whych our lord rather turne vpon theyrs that so wold haue it his bokes besyly goyng about this gere hym 〈◊〉 goeth about ye se well peâ—dye to make all thynge euyll ¶ But now wyll I fyrste fynyshe vp his .xx. chapiter wherin he goeth forwarde thus And in thye chapyter mayster More layth dyuerâ— other obieccyons to proue the sayde letter vnreasonable whych were very tedyouse to reherse at length And therfore I shall as shortely as I can touchâ— some of theym ¶ Ye knowe well ynough why they be tedyouse to reherse Surely bycause they be very tedyouse to answere But where he sayth he wil reherse some of theÌ„ he begynneth first to shew y t I had no cause to doute of his wordes wherin he sayth that the spyrytuall rulers pretende theyr authorytye to be so hygh so immediately deryued from god c. I hadde sayth he no cause to doute of what authoryte he ment For he sayth that his wordes were playn ynough y
merely to mokke hym thaÌ„ wyth odyouse ernest argumeÌ„tes seryousely to preace vppon hym Whyche I wolde also be very loth to do for chargyng of myn owne conscyence And therfore in all thynges y t me thynke are of greate weyght though I touche his wordê I accuse not his own mynde intent For in good fayth I haue of y t man good trust y t he meneth no wurse but wold all thyng were well hym self but euer more my mynde geueth me y t some wyly shrewes abuse y e good mannes simplicyte The .x. chapyter HIs .x. chapyter begynneth in the xxxiii lefe wherin he towcheth certayne wordê of myne wryten in the .xxvii. chapyter of myne apologye that begynneth fo 162. wherin he varyeth not mych with me sauynge in that I say that yf the prelates of y e chyrch wold wythdrawe from theyr worldely coÌ„tenaunce as is kepynge of honestley men in theyr seruyce and kepynge of a good wurshypfull table and wold bestow theyr plate the moste parte of all theyr mouables at ones vppon poore folke and yerely after the moste of theyr yerely reuenus to of whiche mynde I sayd I durste warraunt well that some prelates be yf that wolde as I saye there amende all these grudges that I durste be bolde to warraunt as well also that yf the prelates so dyd the selfe same folke that now grudge and call them proude for theyr countenaunce wold than fynde as great a grudge call them ypochrytes for theyr almoyse and wolde saye that they spende vppon noughty beggers the good that was wont to kepe good yomen and that therby they both enfeble and also dyshonour the realme ¶ Vppon these wordes of myn this good man maketh me forsothe a full goodly sermoÌ„ in the .xxxv. lefe of his booke where he begynneth it with these wordes I can not se. And veryly yf he had there left gone no ferther it had ben well inough For as for the thyng that he speketh of it appereth by hys wordes he can not se very well in dede ¶ Bycause chryst commaundeth in the gospell y t we shall not iudge and that saynt Poule sayth also who art thou that iudgest another maÌ„nes seruaunt and agayne byddeth vs that we iudge not before the tyme al whiche places are vnderstand of iugyng certayne and determinate persons to do euyll in the thynges that we se them do where the thynges be but indyfferent of them selfe and maye be done not euyl onely but well also this good man therfore layeth these textys to touche me for iudgyng that some folke whom I neyther assigne by name nor as yet knowe not who they be wyll do euyll hereafter by mysse iudgynge other men ¶ I wene verely that saynt Poule hym selfe at the tyme whan he forbode vs to â—iudge before the tyme did euyn than iudge that some wolde after that misse iudge and iudge before the tyme to ¶ And albe it that our sauyour saith that who so call hys brother fole is gylty to the fyre â— yet he ment not of him y t wold say that there were some folys abrode in the worlde For yf he so ment than wolde there not tenne fyrys be payne inough for hym that wrote these wordes in the scrypture There are of folys an infynyte nomber ¶ And bycause this good man vseth somtyme thys fygure of examynacyon I wolde wytte of mayster More thiâ— that I wolde nowe wytte thys one thynge of thys good man Suche sawtes as he fyndeth wyth the spyrytualty wryten in hys boke of dyuysyon whyther dyd he than iudge y t some of the spyrytualtye wolde fall in them any more after or not If he iudged that all theyr fantasyes towarde those fawtes were all redy passed before and that none of them wolde neuer do more so than hadde he lytel cause to write all that wurke vppon theym And vn the tother syde yf he iudged that some of them wolde afterwarde do some such thynges agayne eyther but yf he gaue theym warnynge or ellys though he dyd as I dare saye what so euer hym selfe saye in some of those thynges he dyd than syth y e tyme in which he iudged in his mynd made hym selfe therof sure y t some of theym wolde do some suche euyll thynges afterwarde as were at the tyme of the same iudgement of hys mynde not comen hym selfe fell as you se by hys owne argument in the daynger of that prohybycyon y t hym selfe bryngeth in by whyche saynte Poule forbedeth and sayth Nolite ante tempus iudicare Iudge you not before the tyme. ¶ Now yf he say that I tell whom I mene though not by name yet by a sygne and a token in that I saye euyn the same wyll than call theym ypocrytes for theyr almoyse that nowe call theym proude for theyr worldely countenaunce he muste consyder that I neyther tell nor can tell who be they nor though I saye the same I saye not yet all the same And therfore no more mysse iudge any man determynately and in certayne than he that wolde saye thus as many men saye in dede Euyn they that go now full fresshe in theyr garded hosyn and theyr gaye golden reuen shyrtes and in theyr sylken sleuys that nought haue to bere it out but gamynge wyll ones I warrauÌ„t you fall fro gamynge to stelynge start strayt out of sylke into hempe Thus sayeth and thus iudgeth ye wote well many a man and yet meneth not that it shall so mysse happe them all but that some shall amende and do better and that yet hys worde wyll be veryfyed in many so doth it proue in dede and he that so sayth before is farre inough fro the dayngeour of all those textes whych this good man precheth to me ¶ But than he sayth ferther that he trusteth that those prelates whom I saye I durste warraunt to be of such mynde wyll not dyfferre theyr good purpose for no suche suspycyon that happely wyll neuer come ne yet for no such vncherytable wordê though they were spoken in dede And thervppon he descendeth to the makyng of actys of perleament ¶ If those prelates that I mene of rekened them self very sure y t all the wytte and the lernynge that is in the worlde or within this realme eyther were eyther in theyr owne hedys or in this good maÌ„nes and myne which peraduenture for myne owne mynde colde agre well with this good man in this poynt and aduise those prelates that I speke of to folowe theyr owne mynde therin and out of hande euyn so to do thaÌ„ haue I lytell dowt but that they wold euyn so do in dede But some of them haue ofter ben as I suppose than onys where they haue herde both wyse and good folke to and peraduenture yet sholde here agayne yf it were as thys man wold haue it spoken of in the playne open perleament that wolde not fayle to dyssuade it and laye no lytell causes why ¶ But I wyl not at this