the Doctors The schoolemen in deede be authors of that double keie you speake of namelie the keie of iurisdiction or gouernment and the key of order But the auncient Doctors knew no such distinction The keies of power or auctoritie the keie of knowledge the Scripture speaketh of and so doe the auncient doctors How be it euen as your fathers the Scribes Pharises lawier did take away the keies of knowledge and shut vp the kingdom of heauen from men neither entring in them selues nor suffering other that would so do you for you haue taken away the key of knowledge of the Scriptures by which as Chrysostome saith in opere imperfecto the kingdom of heauen is opened in steed thereof forged a key of straunge and tyrannicall iurisdiction which neither Christ nor Peter nor any of his godly successors did know or exercise This ancient writers words are these Regnum coelorum est beatitudo coelestis ianua autem etus est Scriptura per quam introitur ad eam Clauicularij autem sunt Sacerdotes quibus creditum est verbum dicendi interpretandi Scripturas Clauis autem est verbum scientiae Scripturarum per quam aperitur hominibus ianua veritatis Adapertio autem est interpretatio vera The kingdome of heauen is the heauenly blessednes the gate thereof is the Scripture by which men goe into it the key-keepers are the priests to whome is committed the word of preaching and interpreting the Scriptures And the key is the word of the knowledg of the Scriptures by which the gate of truth is opened vnto men The opening is the true interpretation of the scriptures These two keies of authoritie and knowledge will make a sufficient minister of the Gospell that is able to open and shut binde and loose forgiue and retaine sinnes and where these want or either of them there can be no good minister of Christ to open the kingdome of heauen that men maie enter therein But now let vs see the reason you giue why you attribute more power to a simple priest in remitting of mortal sinnes in shrift then to the Popes high iurisdiction by pardons The cause is saie you that the effect of remission of sinnes proceedeth from Christ more abundantlie in the grace of sacraments then by the high iurisdiction without the sacraments This is nakedlie affirmed without anie proofe in the world as other positions before and after But in deed there is no reason that the effect of remission of sinnes shoud proceede more large from the sacrament of penance as you call it then from the iurisdiction of the Pope if it had the same foundation which you would beare men in hand it hath For if Peters and the Popes iurisdiction be builded vpon Tu es Petrus and to thee I will giue the keies and what soeuer thou bindest or loosest shall be bound in heauen c. Why should not all mortall sinnes be subiect to his iurisdiction as well as to the priestes power in penance The wordes be as ample to Peter Math. 16. as to the Apostles Ioh. 20. If Peters key of iurisdiction papall be not grounded vpon this text as you aduouched lib. 1. cap. 4. Sect. 7. tell vs where he hath it anie where els committed vnto him If it be committed by this text certainlie the key of iurisdiction is as large as the key of orders Therfore either he forgiueth mortall sinnes by his iurisdiction or els his iurisdiction is no greater then anie other mans that hath anie key committed vnto him ALLEN There is another key of Regiment and rule of the Church or some principall portion thereof which is called the key or power of iurisdiction Now by this power of regiment and rule as no man can take vpon him to consecrate so no man out of the sacrament of penance can take vpon him to absolue anie man of deadlie sinnes and damnation due therefore For though some do thinke that Saint Paull did absolue the incestuous Corinthian both of his sinne and damnation with all temporall punishment due therefore after assured repentance of the partie out of the sacrament of penance yet I cannot agree in anie case thereunto because the sacrament of confession hath euer beene of necessitie since Christes institution thereof and because the remission of sinnes is so proper a worke vnto God that no creature could euer worke the same absolutelie without sacramēt sauing only the humanitie of Christ to which the acts of diuinity as being vnited to the godhead were communicated vpon which it is certaine that Christ our sauiour might remit sinnes absolutelie out of all externall sacraments by his word and will onelie which beeing the power of excellencie was as Diuines do thinke communicated to no other creature in what iurisdiction or preheminence soeuer he should be placed and in the act of absolution remission of sinnes proceedeth ioyntlie from that one excellent person beeing both God and man Neither is it to be thought that Saint Paull did pardon the foresaid Penitent anie other waies then by the handes of the ministers and Priestes of the Corinthian Church For though the confession and penance of the partie were publike as the sinne it selfe was open yet the vsage of the Apostie and open practize of the Corinthian Church towards him was no lesse a sacrament then then it is now beeing secret Therefore I doubt not but Saint Paull spake especiallie to the Priestes of the Corinthians when he willed them to confirme their charitie towards the sinner and to forgiue him by their ministerie whome he thought in absence worthie to receiue the grace and pardon at their handes whereof we shall speake more hereafter in place conuenient We do not then exalte the Pope or Bishops in this case anie thing so farre as heresie seemeth or the simplicity of manie men conceiueth whereas they maie wel vnderstand that we giue more authoritie to the most simple Priest aliue in respect of his order and because of the sacrament by which he worketh then to the Pope or highest Potentate in the world considering but onelie his iurisdiction And therfore Saint Peter him self who receiued both the keies as also other Apostles and Bishops hauing as well the keie or power of Orders as the keie of iurisdiction and regiment of their subiects maie do the actes of both the keies that is to saie maie as well lawfullie minister sacraments of all sortes as also exercise iurisdiction vpon their subiects in such thinges as we hereafter shall declare But out of the sacraments onelie by the vertue of their iurisdiction to absolue men of mortall sinnes though they be subiect vnto them they can not nor as I think euer Pope or Prelace tooke vpon him anie such preheminence And therefore let this be the first point of our consideration that the Popes Pardons or Indulgences which he giueth in respect of his iurisdiction which also as moste men do thinke he might giue when he
Iesuites in discredit whose infections are well knowne abroade and are now entred to worke treason in the land Also because he graunteth the speaches which in all hatred of Popish practizes so directlie attempted against the maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome he vttered in diuerse places of his answere But if you had not omitted the reasons which he setteth downe of his acknowledging and graunting of those vehement speaches they had beene sufficient in any reasonable mans opinion to discharge him out of that crime of rayling For you your selfe confesse afterward that euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not to be taken for rayling Now Master Charke standeth to the defence of his booke to be Christian and Catholike and him-felfe to be a true member and Minister of the Catholike Church of Christ and for occasion of matter he alledgeth the infections of the Iesuites well knowne abroad and their late entrie to worke treason in the land Also those Popish practises against which he vttered those speaches to be directlie attempted against the Maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome so that such sharpe speaches and yet but sparinglie vttered in comparison of so many reproches as you haue belched out against him and our religion are not to be charged with the preiudice of rayling neither in regard of the person whoe did vse them or of the matter that did occasion them At the least wise vntill you had disprooued him to be a Catholike or discharged your Iesuites of the crimes of heresie and treason intended against them neither doth he with slaunder deuised against their persons as the manner of the Papists is seeke to discreditte their doctrine but in detestation of their false doctrine attribute such termes vnto the men as for their doctrines sake they deserue But you are gratious to graunt him pardon for that he confesseth hatred to haue beene the cause as though hatred not of the persons whome he wisheth to repent vnto saluation but of the practizes which he knoweth to be against God and the peace of the realme may not be a iust cause of more vehement inuectiues then he hath anie expressed And yet you see not how any learned or common honest man and much lesse a preacher can iustifie such vnciuill and outragious termes against his brother by any pretence of Christianlike or tollerable hatred I will not say how mány foule re proches be included in this one sentence taking it according to your meaning for I will graunt that you saie to be true if it may be vnderstoode of him that is a brother in deede But that Iesuites are brethren to Master Charke and such preachers as he is I thinke neither the Iesuites nor you your selfe if you be demaunded when you are awake will acknowledge Therefore being such as M. Charke had before described them by their infections treasons practizes against God and the realme he was not to imbrace them as bretheren but to detest them as heretikes and traytors The turning backe of the crime of railyng which he vseth vnto you was not for any excuse of the crime committed by him selfe for he doth not at all excuse but iustifie defend those speaches which you cal railing as fit words against the wicked Monkish fryers or fryerlie Monks affirming that if he were disposed to place your ordinary and extraordinary rayling in a ranke he might gather of your reproches more then can come into ten leaues but this you saie is neither to the purpose nor trewe not to the purpose because you were prouoked by his example and iniurie who began without example He might answere you that he began not with you but you with him neither did he prouoke you by any priuate iniurie but if you count the cause of the Iesuites to pertaine vnto you as a publike iniurie then iudge in differentlie whether the heresies and treasons of the Iesuites doe not minister iust cause to him of his hatred and bitter speaches against them But that he could gather ten leaues of your rayling you say it is a licentious lie For as Printers count leaues that is wholl sheetes there are but halfe ten in your booke and albeit they be counted as they are folded yet ten leaues are a greater part thereof then can be filled with rayling termes onelie So you saie and seeme to saie somewhat to your purpose but Master Charke hauing tolde you before vnto which your silence may stand for a confession that almost euerie line soundeth loud with some foull reproch who cannot see that it were easie to gather almost out of euerie line so many foull reproches as would fill more then ten of your folded leaues For of Printers large count no reasonable man would vnderstand him except you would allow him also to make as large letters and as fewe lines as Printers sometimes vse to doe in such large leaues of their account But this matter you may not so soone passe ouer for that you thinke it of importance to descrie she spirites of vs that are aduersaries in this case Rayling in deed is a fault in whomsoeuer it be found but it had beene requisite that you had first defined what is rayling that we might haue agreed vpon the matter in question You tell vs afterward what is not rayling namelie euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not railing nor the thing in question for both Christ his Apostles and many holy fathers aster them vsed the same sometimes vpon inst zeale especially against heretiks So that vntilyou haue prooued Protestants to be noe true Catholikes discharged papists from being heretikes euerie hotte worde in our bookes vttered against Papistes can not iustlie be accompted railing Naie if Catholikes by heate of zeale in a iust cause or in a case that they thinke to be iust be caried somtimes in vehemencie of speech beyond the bandes of modestie as they maie be iustlie reprooued therefore so they maie not straightwaie be condemned for heresie in so doing Iames and Iohn were so farre deceiued with zeale and in a cause that they thought to be cleare and iust that they would haue praied that fire might come downe from heauen by example of Helias and destroy the Samaritanes that resused to receiue their master Christ and were otherwise heretikes for which they weere reprooued but yet as they which knew not or had forgotten of what spirit they were yet not by and by reiected for heretikes The contention was sharpe betweene Paull and Barnabas and there was a fault betweene them yet both holie Apostles Saint Ierome is misliked of manie for immoderat vehemencie of speech against Rusfinus as good a Catholike as him-selfe yea he is not to be excused in heat against Saint Augustine Vigilantius and Iouinian he handleth more hardlie in termes then the cause of either of them did deserue although the one were in
wher of the high Priest was a figure Neither was the citie of refuge appointed onelie for the triall of the slaughter whether it were willinglie or vnwillinglie committed as you saie but also for a kinde of punishment and detestation of manslaughter so that if the sleaer were found out of the City before the death of the high Priest the auenger of blood might kill him and not be charged with his blood Where you refuse the mysterie of Christes death in the death of the high Priest and flie to the fantasies of the Iewes you declare that you care not what you bring so you maie obtaine your purpose But Chri stian diuines as Cyrillus Maximus and others of the death of the high priest in that place gather deliuerance by the death of Christ. Saint Ambrose also is cleere that the high Priest in this place signifieth Iesus Christ and confuteth the politike reasons by you rehearsed out of R. Mose and R. Leui for that in causis paribus there was impar euentus In equal causes vnequall end For the high Priest might die saith he the next daie after the manslaier hath taken his refuge Againe he addeth that Christ is exors omnium voluntariorum accidentium delictorum void of all offences voluntarie and chaunceable by which he acknowledgeth vnwilling manslaughter to be an offence Saint Ierome also Dialog aduers. Pel. lib. 1. is plaine in that wholl case and sinne of ignorance and that he which is fled to the citie must tarie vntill the high Priest die that is vntill he be redeemed by the blood of our Sauiour Beda also vpon this place by his allegorie sheweth how he thought of that kinde of sinne Also Theodoretus in lib. Num. quaest 51. declareth both the mysterie of the high Priests death and sheweth that such vnwilling manslaughter is sinne Cur ad obitum Pontificis praescribet eireditum qui nolens interfecit Qnia 〈◊〉 Pontificis secundùm ordinem Melchisedech erat humani peccati solutio Whte vntill the death of the high Priest doth he prescribereturne vnto him which hath slaine a man vnwillinglie Because the death of the high Priest after the order of Melchisedech was the loosing of the sinne of man and so forth to the same effect And if all the politike reasons be graunted of the mans tarying vntill the high Priest die yet the mysterie of Christes death is not thereby taken away whoos 's blood clenseth vs from all sinne voluntarie or vnuoluntarie The last fault of the definition is that the Iesuites acknowledge not the sinne of ignorance you answer they do of that ignorance whereof a man him-selfe is the cause but not of that ignorance which the schoolemen call inuincible which is not in the doers power to auoid nor he fell into it by his owne defaulte as in the example of the Queenes subiect being in his Princes affaires in India and commaunded by proclamation in Westminster to appeare there at a certaine daie in which cause his absence is excused by inuincible ignorance This case graunted betweene the Prince and his subiect prooueth not that ignorance excuseth before God because there is not the like reason seeing no such ignorance whereby a man should transgresse the law of God is in man but by voluntarie and witting transgression of the first man and his owne negligence which maketh his fact sinfull because he is cause of his ignorance by negligence or in the sinne of Adam in whome you confesse that all men sinned At least wise if originall sinne be voluntarie by the sinne of Adam so also is the transgression of gods law in these cases of inuincible ignorance wittinglie committed by the same sinne of Adam Augustine whome you quote for your purpose speaketh of naturallignorance and infirmitie which is in insants not of that whereby men fall into error and so transgresse Gods law For that he calleth penall ignorance and difficultie which is iustlie laid vpon them that neglected to seeke knowledge and is sinfull therefore cannot excúse sinne Chrisostome whome you quote likewise is manifestly against you his wordes are these Quòdsi ea ignoraueris quae scriri non possunt praeter culpam eris siverò quae scitu possibilia sunt facilia extremas poenas merito dabis If thou be ignorant of those thinges which are not possible to beknowne thoushalt be blamles but if they be possible and easie to be knowne thou shalt worthelie suffer extreame punishment As in the cases of Abimelech with Abrahams wife and Iacob with Lea who if they had made diligent inquirie needed not to haue beene deceiued through ignorance Neither doth God excuse Abimelech from sinne altogether as you saie albeit he pardoned his ignorance and kept him from the fact of adulterie acknowledged his minde to haue beene free from the purpose of Adulterie For the punishmeut laid vpon him argueth what he deserued by his ouer hastie purpose of mariage with Sara and Abimelech confesseth that Abraham had brought vpon him and his Kingdom a great sinne Also when God saith to him I haue kept thee thatthou shouldest not sinne against me he declareth plainlie that if Abimelech had lien with Sara vpon that ignorance he had sinned against God But of Iacobslying with Lea in steade of Rachell you mooue a greater contention and alledge Saint Augustine in his defense But whosoeuer gaue you your notes through your negligence in not reading the places your selfe made you erre through ignorance For S. Augustine doth notin all those Chapters once touch the question whether Iacob sinned in that he did not regarde what woman was laid in his bedde by which negligence as Master Charke saith he might haue committed most horribleincest with his mother aunt or daughter Onelie he defendeth his Polygamie by the custome of that time and the contention of his wiues for their lodgeing with him and last of all allegorizeth vpon the wholl storie drawing the error of Iacob and all the rest to a mysterie Nor yet de ciuit dei lib. 16. c. 38. doth he defend his negligence rehearsing onelie how he came to haue foure wiues when he went into Mesopotamia for one onelie adding that because he had lyen with Lea vnwittinglie he did not put her awaie lest he might be thought to haue mocked her Neither hath Iustinus Martyr lib. de verit Christ. rel anie defense of Iacobs innocencie or excuse of his negligence in this fact but sheweth onelie what mysterie maie be gathered of his marriages as Saint Augustine doth Finallie Theodores your last auncient witnes agreeing with the rest saith that Iacob betrothed onelie Rachell and beside the purpose of his will had to doe with Lea. But immediatelie assoone as he perceiued the deceit he tooke it heauilie and complained to his father in law what word of defense or excuse of his fact committed through ignorance negligence haue you in this saying yet you conclude after your vaunting mannner And what one
make satisfaction to the Church when there appeereth iust cause so to doe But let vs see how manie vntruthes you do boldlie aduouch which are besides this authoritie First that these Bishops had thought not to haue giuen peace to them that had fallen till the houre of death came But that is not so for they saie onelie they had determined that they should haue performed the penance that was enioyned for a long time vnto them vnto the ful except danger of infirmitie required to giue peace at the point of death Their wordes are these Totheir brother Cornelius Bishoppe of Rome Statueramus quidem iampridem frater charissimè participato inuicem nobiscum consilio vt qui in persecutionio 〈◊〉 supplantati ab aduersario lapsifuissent ac sacrificiis se illicitis maculassent agerent diu poenitentiam plenam si periculum infirmitatis vrgeret pacem sub ictu mortis acciperent Nec enim fas erat aut permittebat paterna pietas diuina clementia ecclesiam pulsantibus claudi dolentibus deprecantib speisulutaris subsidium denegari vt de saculo recedentes sine communicatione aut pace domini dimitterentur cùm permiserit ipse qui tegem dedit vt ligata in terris etiam in Coelis ligata essent solui autem possent illic que hîc prius in Ecclesia soluerentur Sed cum videamus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 infestationis appropinquare coepisse crebris atque assiduis ostensionibus admoneamur vt ad cert 〈◊〉 quod nobis hostis indicit armati parati simus plebem 〈◊〉 nobis diuina dignatione commissam exhortationibus nostris praeparemus omnes omnino milites Christi qui arma desiaerant praelium flagitant intra castra domini colligamus necessitate cogente censuimus eis qui de Ecclesia domini recesserunt sed poenitentiam agere lamentari ac dominum deprecari à primo lapsus sui die non destiterunt pacem dandam esse eos ad praelium quod imminet armari instrui oportere We had decreed indeed long since moste deer brother by aduise taken amongst our selues that such as in the trouble of persecution were supplanied by the aduersarie and fallen and had defiled themselues with vnlawfull sacrifices should doe full penance a long time and if daunger of infirmity did vrge they should receiue peace at the point of death For it was not lawfull neither did the Fatherlie pietie and clementie of God permit that the Church should be shut vp to them that knocke and that aid of healthfull hope should be denied to them that sorrowed and praied for it that departing out of the world they should be sent awaie without anie communicaiion or the Lordes peace seeing he hath permitted which made the lawe that those things that are bound in earth should also be bound in heauen that those things also might be loosed there which were loosed here in the Church But for as much as we see that the daie of another trouble beginneth to approch and are admonished by often and dailie shewings or visions that we should be armed and prepared vnto the battell which the enemie doth denounce vnto vs we should also prepare the people by gods voutsafing committed vnto vs with our exhortations and should gather in anie wise all the souldiers of Christ which call for armour and desire to fight into the Lordes campe necessity compelling vs we haue thought good that peace is to be graunted to them which haue departed out of the Lords Church but from the daie of their falling haue not ceased to shew repentance and to lament and to intreat our Lord and that they also ought to be armed and furnished against the battell which is at hand These are the words of Cyprian his fellow Bishops which you haue abridged at your pleasure if your note booke did not deceiue you to set down that you haue done as the very words of the epi stle Out of which you gather beside that I haue noted before power to inioyne penance and to release the same againe But where you saie they take vpon them cleerelie to inioyne what they list and how long they list that is not so but what is iust and conuenient and so likewise vpon iust cause they release the same or some parte thereof Againe you slaunder them in saying they take vpon thē to pardon after death for there is no such word or matter in all the Epistle They released and receiued them to the communion being in daunger of death but after death they receiued no man to the communion Nay they decreed that whereas Geminius Victor who had made Geminius Faustinus a clergie man his executor contrarie to the decrees of their synods there should be no oblation made for his falling a sleepe nor anie praier frequented in the Church in his name So farre of was it that they would pardon anie man after death when no repentance auaileth The scripture they doe rightlie applie for the establishing of the discipline of excommunication receiuing againe into the fellowship of the Church such as were fallen vpon their repentance as for the sacrament of penance you say wel they exercized discipline without it for such a sacrament they knew not but they claimed no iurisdiction to receiue offenders without good tokens of their repentāce as their words be manifest Where you saie they claimed iurisdiction by their onelie letters to giue them in absence peace pardon of their inioyned penāce as though their letter did resemble the Popes pardons in writing you speake beside the booke for they doe not giue peace by these letters onlie but signifie vnto Cornelius what they thought necessary to be done vpō what reasons left they might be thought to light in loosing the sinews of discipline toward so notorius offenders Your conclusion follow eth not vpon this example Cyprian and his fellow Bishope did vpon necessary cause release the time of penāce enioyned to certaine greeuous offenders and receiued them to the communion vpon certaine perswasion of their répentance therefore the Pope and his popelings maie giue pardon of paine due for sinnes remitted where hone is due and in the sacrament of penance when no such sacrament can be prooued out of the scripture neither doe you rightlie alledge Christes wordes as those holie Fathers did for they alledged them for the discipline of excommunication and absoluing which is necessarie to be vsed in the Church but you to maintaine a tirannical iurisdiction to loose that which other men haue bound without good cause as they did but for manie often times as they did neuer Therefore there is as great oddes betweene their practize of discipline and these Popes pardons as there is distance betweene their ages which is more then a thousand yeares ALLEN And now to make vp this matter for the true meaning of the said text which we now prooue to pertaine to the establishing of the true title of
time it selfe doth mooue them FVLKE These arguments I like well for they bewraie your infirmitie moste of al. And now for answere I saie that your Maior is false as weil as your Minor for the common Popish sense of pardons is as the wordes of them pretend that is to giue pardon not onelie of penance enioyned but also of sinnes Againe the gouernours of the Church as your Maior should haue beene framed but that you dare not come within the compasse of a lawfull syllogisme haue no power either to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted or to remit penance enioyned for sins remitted but of time of penance enioyned for satisfaction of the Church as we heard latelie out of Saint Augustine when the Church may be satisfied in shorter time Your Minor which you knew would not be admitted you take vpon you to prooue but you come nothing neere the matter for this is the point of your Minor which we denie that the Pope is the principall gouernour of Gods Church yea that he is any gouernour of Gods Church But if he were a Bishop of Rome as many were whose successour he claimeth to be he might be allowed in his Church of Rome to binde and loose enioyne and remit so farre as Christian discipline will beare but not to claime tiranie ouer all Churches as he doth Now you in your mishapen syllogisme in which you fumble diuerse matters together to deceiue the ignorant prooue that the Church and gouernours thereof haue power to release that which they haue power to enioyne which is not the matter in controuersie But whether they haue power to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted to answere Gods iustice or whether the Pope be a lawfull gouernour of the Church these and such like be matters of controuersie which you are neuer able to conclude in any lawfull and true syllogisme ALLEN And this argument shal be vnmooueable except they reiect with the Popes Pardons all manner of discipline as well of excommunication as other lesser satisfactions whereof we haue allreadie spoken as in deede to mainteine their falsehoode they must needes doe as also they shall be enforced to reprooue both the Councell of Nice all the holie Fathers and the generall practize of the Church and with them the expresse scriptures in which the worthie fruites of penance sharpe discipline iudging our selues obedience to our Prelates binding reteining of sinnes excommunicating and deliuering vp to Sathan be so often condemned It must needes be a miserabe doctrine of these Protestants which cannot be vpholden but by so shamefull shiftes and when we driue them into such straites in a matter where they thinke most may be saied for themselues and lest for our defence where shall they stand in our plaine causes in which almost our aduersaries confesse vs to haue the vantage of antiquitie and the preheminence of all 〈◊〉 Councells in the world But surelie I thinke falsehood hath so litle holde in all matters that it standeth onelie vpright whiles the contrarie is not seene or not vnderstanded which shee seeketh euer by all meanes shee may to couer and keepe close For the night shee loueth and in darkenes shee delighteth Doe but open the true sense of anie article by them impugned and it is more then halfe prooued and the enemies without argument vpon the sight of trueth in a manner discomfited So it fareth with them in our present cause which they haue long toyled and troubled in the mist of their phantasies and vpon false interpretation discharged amongst the simple sorte that that thing which in this sense as Gods Church that hath the ruling of the matter taketh it is so sure and so cleare in it selfe that I thinke they shall neuer be hable with honestie to speake against in any one parcell thereof FVLKE A boy that hath studied Logicke halfe a yeare may be ashamed to make such syllogismes and yet you are not ashamed to affirme before the worlde that this argument is vnmooueable except we reiect with the Popes pardons all manner of discipline And though it be manifest vnto the worlde that we practize all Godlie discipline which is according to the scriptures in requiring the worthie fruites of repentance iudgeing of our selues obedience to Christian Prelates practizing also the binding and reteining of sinnes excommunication and deliuering vp to Satan giuing that reuerence we ought to the holie Councell of Nice to all holie fathers and to the generall practize of the Church yet you blush not to write that we shall be enforced to reprooue all these It is not these beggerlie arguments M. Allen that shall enforce vs to these absurdities If you haue any better stuffe in store for Pardons bring it out for shame or ells talke no more of enforcement except it be in shrift where no man can controll you The rest to the ende of this Chapter conteining nothing but generall rayling and arrogant boasting after your accustomed manner I passe ouer as needelesse to be answered 〈◊〉 wise then it doth discouer it selfe in any wise mans iudgement That there be diuerse waies of temporall punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euery of which waies may be in some cases released in parte or in wholl by the Pardons of Popes and Bishops THE SIXT CHAP. ALLEN ANd yet to giue more light to the matter and the greater ouerthrow to falsehood let vs driue the cause forward and weigh with our selues the wholl state of things in this order First that there be three waies of punishment of mans sinnes after they be released in the sacrament of Penance besides the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe withall and besides the punishment appointed for offences by the ciuill or temporall lawes whereof I now speake not the first the easiest is that penāce which is in secret confessiō inioyned by our Confessor which is lightlie as these times be much lesse then the nature of the offence for which it was prescribed requireth Yet because it is taken obedientlie and by our iudges prescription and in a sacrament in which God alwaies worketh much more grace then he doth by the selfe same things without the sacrament and because the penitent is readie to take more if more had beene prescribed in all these respects it standeth often if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes for which it was inioyned for a ful satisfaction before god when it is accomplished FVLKE In the first Chapter of this booke you charged the reader to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of this cause but the methode you follow is such as becommeth your cause namelie the methode of deceitfulnes which is that you call the compasse of your cause For true methode requireth to proceede from things more better knowne to things lesse knowne as it were to build vpon a good foundation but your manner is to assume that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie and thereupon to builde as it were vpon an imaginarie
fundation afterwarde to make a florish in wordes and a vaine 〈◊〉 of confirming your foundation As in this cause it had beene moste necessarie if the compasse of your cause could haue borne it to haue first prooued substantiallie that there remaineth temporall punishment after sinne remitted to satisfie the iustice of God Then that the iustice of God not satisfied by the act of Christs sacrifice on the crosse may be satisfied afterward Thirdlie the meane wherby it may be satisfied which you cal the treasure of the Church fourthly that dispensation therof belongeth to the pope these things once prooued the way had beene plainner to bring in the Popes pardons for proofe of which to be good you haue plaide the proctour all this while But these matters must be daintelie touched the compasse of your cause can not abide to haue them thoroughlie handled And therefore it is sufficient to affirme them for other proofe you haue none of them And yet as though you brought with you noe worsse then mathematicall demonstrations you blow the trumpe afore hand to giue more light to the matter the greater ouerthrow to falsehood to driue the cause forward and weigh the wholl state of things And what saie you to the purpose forsooth you tell vs that there be three kindes of punishment of mans sinnes after they be remitted But sir wee beleeue you not where is your demonstration Why Is it not sufficient that M. Allen saith so what an vnrea sonable man are you that will not learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause well seeing we muste haue none other proofe of your sayings let vs see what you say first the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe with all are none What those be I know not except it be some superstitious vowes and such like matters but the fruites of repentance which God chargeth a man withal be so necessarie to be brought forth that otherwise the repentance is fained and thereof followeth no remission Againe ciuill punishment is none and yet nothing is more like to prooue that purpose what is it then The first easiest is that penance which is enioyned in secret confession In deed that is easie and such as may encourage men to commit sinnes for which they make so easie satisfaction toties quoties But what is the effect of this satisfactió It standeth for a full satisfaction before God when it is accomplished What alwaie Nay often times if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes Then is there no certaintie in this matter but in steede of a quietnes of conscience a torment followeth vpon it if the sinner be not assured that his penance enioyned will goe for paiement or satisfaction Well when this easie penance is a full satisfaction whence taketh it so great force you answere small workes by force of the sacraments are verie effectuall But to prooue this patch of Poperie to be a sacrament what daie wil you take for that which is the grounde of al your disputation is denied of vs as you know So that hetherto but by petion of principles you get nothing ALLEN The second way of punishment is appointed by the Canons generallie for such faultes as be committed after Baptisme that is to saie by the lawes of the Church or Decrees of Bishops and chiefe Magistrates thereof and is called Canonicall satisfaction Which is much more sparpe and greeuous then the other that in priuate penance is commonlie giuen and a great deale more answerable to Gods iustice and the greeuousnes of the crimes committed And so the Canons were not onelie prescribed as some iudge not right of them for open offences to satisfie the Church and the offence of the people but also euen for secret sinnes as we may perceiue by Saint Augustine Tertullian and other that haue written of penance And this waie prescribed satisfaction by the auncient decrees of Councells which lightlie appointed seuen yeares of penance for euerie deadelie sinne was almost a rule for such as heard secret confessions to moderate their penance by which they lightlie gaue to the penitents euen after the limitation of the saide decrees auncient Canons Now to giue so many yeares or daies of penance signifieth the iniunction or prescriptions of fasts by certaine weekelie thoroughout the said prefixed times or continualfasting from moste meates euerie daie in all those yeares of penance other then would suffice for susteining of nature as bread and water and such shinne diet which 〈◊〉 bodie in this fall of our strength and manners could now scarse beare with this continuall mourning in outward behauiour of countenance speach and apparell and which was the greatest of all necessarie abstinence from the holie sacrament till the said penance was accomplished And this great penance was in the Primitiye Church prescribed by the Canons not onelie for cautell and prouision for the like sinnes afterward to be committed then when the Church had her punishment for sinnes seuerall from the paines appointed by the ciuill lawes for the same but also for the satisfiyng of gods iustice for the penitents sinnes the burden whereof then was counted as indeede it is so intollerable that neither the Church spared to enioyne great satisfaction nor the offenders refused to receiue and accomplish the same with humilitie This therefore is the second waie of punishment or prescription of penance for mortall sinnes remitted or in waie to be remitted by the penance of the partie In which kinde you may account also the seuere punishments which concerne the soull moste although sometimes they are ioyned vnto some corporall afflictions as excommunication suspension degradation such like for al these were vsual in the beginning of Christian daies for correction of sinne FVLKE Canonical punishment as we heard latelie in the next Chapter before was vt satis fait Ecclesiae to make satisfaction to the Church and not to the iustice of God who accepteth a contrite and an humble heart thorough the vertue of Christs death and passion as a full satisfaction to his instice You saie the Canons were not onelie prescribed as some iudge not rightlie of them for open offences to satisfie the Church the offence of the people but also euen for secret sinnes But how is this prooued that you saie you tell vs that we may perceiue it by S. Austine Tertullian and others that haue written of penance If it be as you saie why be not their sayings set downe and we with them that iudge not rightlie conuinced by them At lest why be not the places quoted where we may perceiue such a matter belike the compasse of the cause cannot abide it as also you sate this fal of our strength and manners could scarse beare such streight penance as by the Canons is prescribed You ioyne two things together of diuerse natutes If the strength of mans bodie be so greatly fallen as they are not able to endure such hard punishment
punishment Secondlie you assure vs If the pardon be large it taketh awaie the whole paine then it followeth that if God punish a man for his sinnes with the goute or anie other bodelie sicknes a large pardon would take awaie the whole paine thereof Surelie if you would become suter to his holines for a large pardō that would take awaie the whole paine of bodelie sicknes you might doe an acceptable deede and be well paied for your paines But if the Popes pardon be not able to take awaie the paine of one scabbe or flebiting you wil hardlie perswade vs that it can take awaie all the paine of purgatorie if it were prooued that anie such paine or place were after this life But if the pardon saie you determine the number of daies or yeares then it releaseth but part of the penāce onlie as you bring exampls of 20. daies pardon but if the pardon determine the number of yeares to an hundred thousand yeares then this explication is insufficient yet you haue an other quirke to helpe it afterward by stretching it into purgatorie your imaginarie prison But the auncient canons neuer inioyned so manie yeares penance nor neuer did anie Catholike Bithoppe graunt pardon of so manie yeares Saint Cyprian as we heard before with his colleagues determined to release some parte of the appointed time vpon good hope of the amendement of the parties and great signes shewed of their heartie repentance and for daunger of present persecution at hand Saint Paull receiued the incestuous person vnto the fellowship of the Church vpon his repentance The Councel of Nice also willed the Bishops in seeing the fruits of repentance ripebefore the time assigned by the Canons to deale more gently with the lapsed persons But all these haue no resemblance with the Antichristian pardons of the Pope which are not graunted vpon like cause nor by a person of like authoritie nor to persons of like qualites nor to the like end nor onelie of penance enioyned but of such as no man would enioyne beside remission à culpa pana or if not for all sinnes yet for some third or seauenth parteof sinnes or else full remission of all sinnes beside 8000. yeares and 8000. Lentes as in the pardon of Clement the sixt confirmed by Leo the tenth it is to be seene ALLEN Whereby we see this pardoning of enioyned penance is an auncient vsage and counted moste holie of all the Church whereof we make this assured ground and foundation of our Pardons and for the trueth of them we make this argument Saint Paul did remit enioyned penance in Christs person Saint Cyprian and al the Bishops of Affrike did remit penance enioyned Nicē Councel giueth licence to bishops to remit penance prescribed by the law Therefore the Pope by their example as in the person of Christ may remit enioyned penance there fore may lawfuilie giue a Pardon The paine prescribed by the law he may release because he is the principal executer of the law the penance appointed by the inferiour priest in confession he may likewise remit because that which is prescribed by the inferiour may by good reason be vpon considerations altered by the superiour especiallie where the Magistrate hath good meanes to prouide that neither the common wealth suffer damage thereby nor the partiē to whome it doth perteine to be loosed or bounde in penance receiue any losse thereby By like authoritie also doth a Pardon change sometimes a sharper longer paine enioyned into some more gentle penance and more fit and needeful workes for the time and state then beeing as his power that is the chiefe gouernour may be exceeding benefi ciall to the worlde in such cases which euer ought to be practized for edifying neuer for destruction For it is to be considered that the high Pastour vsualite graunieth no release of the debt of good workes or the bond of deserued punishment but by prescription of some other holie worke to be accomplished before the partie obteine the benefit of his remission 〈◊〉 when a penitent hath enioyned him to punish his bodie by continual fasting or long peregrination or other exceeding much temporall pain according to the grieuousnes of his desertes the freedome of a Pardon of tentimes turneth the saide due paines enioyned into some easier worke of Christian charitie yet beeing much more to the glory of god beneficial to the Church as the time standeth then the other could be As when the Turke or other enemies of Christianitie doe inuade any Christian kingdome it is more beneficiall to put to our helping hand in with standing his crueltie either by resisting him in our owne person or contributing anie peece of our goods towardes the same then anie priuate Penance that maie concerne our persons Therefore the gouernours of the Church often to mooue the people to such necessarie denotion giueth them a release of all paine due for their sinnes or at least of the bonde of their enioyned penance onelie vpon respect of some smal furtherance in such a good and Godlie purpose FVLKE We acknowledge that pardoning of ecclesiastical pu nishment commonly called penance is very auncient And being graunted by them that had authoritie vpon good consideration is very necessary But it is very yong and new that the Pope should take vpon him though he proceeded no further then pardon of penance enioy nedto release the penance enioyned by the gouernours of other Churches to persons whose repentance he knoweth not for other causes then of auncient were allowed and especiallie for money But now vpon this auncient and accustomed practize of Gods Church let vs see what Antichrist can claime and that is set forth in an assured argument Saint Paull did remit S. Cyprian with the Bishops of Afrike and the Nicene councell doth allow remitting of penance prescribed therefore the Pope by their example maie remit enioyned penance and lawfullie giue a pardon Call you this an assured argument for pardons where there wanteth one leg and that the better leg of the argument to stand vpon Aristotle doth well admonish that in an Enthimeme lightlie the weaker part is hidden and not expressed For this argument euerie man maie lawfullie denie except you adde the Maior that whatsoeuer Saint Paull Saint Cyprian with his fellowes and the Nicene coun cell lawfullie did and allowed the Pope doing as they did maie lawfullie do But then this Maior will be denied and so the conclusion will not holde For the Pope is neither anie gouernour nor yet any member of the Church of Christ. But if he were a lawfull Bishop he might do within his owne charge as Saint Paul Saint Cyprian and the rest with the Nicen councell did and allowed to be done And yet if he were allowed to be a Bishop and would graunt such pardons as he doth to men of other Churches and vpon such occasions as he doth this argument would not defend him because the Minor would not follow
to shewe me the first vser therof much lesse that it was euer controlled by any man that euer was counted Catholike it may be measured according to the necessitie of the time and so as the Church may be most edified FVLK I. The qualification that you now prescribe differeth not a litle from that seueritie of your former exacting of penance or at the least a counterpoise thereof to make pardons beneficiall That the decale of deuotion should make pardons more common in these latter times there is no reason but rather that pardons should cause deuotion to decaie For the nature of men is to be best affected to that which is moste easilie obteined and where there is hope of impunitie to be lesse carefull in offending But you would haue pardons seeme to be as olde as Gregorie the first by authoritie of Pantaleon a Lutheran who could not know what Gregorie did but by relation of other stories why doe you not therefore cite some auncient credible storie that iustifieth as much of Gregory For Pantaleon doth not aduouch what Gregorie did but what the late popish writers ascribe vnto him But though it be not auncient to graunt such pardons yet you saie it is cleare that the thing itselfe is lawfull although of this clearenes you haue as yet made no demonstration You saie further that no Protestant is able to shewe you the first vser thereof If that were true yet thereby pardons are neither prooued auncient nor lawfull But what if Gregorie were named For I will not name Boneface the eight seing you make challenge of Gregorie whome can you shewe that vsed to graunt such pardons before him Although in trueth you are not able to prooue that Gregorie graunted such pardons oranie Pope after him for 400. yeares Your third assertion that these manner of pardons were neuer controlled by any man that euer was accounted Catholike is a sophisticall caption and petition of the principle For manie are true Catholikes that are not so accounted and the Pope with his papists challenge to be accounted the onely Catholikes which of all other are the greatest heretikes ALLEN And thankes be giuen to God the effect of the loue of Indulgences and the contrarie issue of the contempt thereof doe well prooue the Churches good meaning therein For if you view both parties well you shall perceiue more profitable deuotion more Christian charitie more furtherance of common wealthes causes in that side that feareth paines for their sinnes with the Prophet Dauid euen after they be remitted and therefore seeke for all meanes moste humblie by mans ministerie to receiue mercie in one yeare you shall see in these deuoute persons more fruites of repentance then in a wholl old mans life can be found in all the other side that contemptuouslie disdaine or scornfullie deride the moste profitable vsage both of penance and pardons in Gods Church Therefore in so great proofe of the benefite that proceedeth from this kinde of remissions for so Alexander the third aboue foure hundereth yeares since termed Pardons vsed then to be giuen in dedication of Churches and vpon moste assured groundes that it well agreeth both with Gods worde and practise of the primitiue Church and neuer condemned of anie but of such as be themselues worthely condemned of other great heresies and errors the Magisirates will shew mercie still in Christes behalfe and all the holie Byshoppes succeeding lawfullie the Apostles of Christ will giue peace and benediction to such as humblie aske it at their handes and if the parties be worthie their peace by Christes promise shal rest vpon them if they either contemne it or be vnworthie of it then no harme done it will returne to the giuers againe FVLKE Although this argument of the effectes especialie when they are assigned to a wrong cause is no sufficient proofe of the lawfullnes of a thing where an euent is taken instead of an effect yet doe we vtterlie denie this assumpt that more profitable deuotion ' more Christian charitie more furtherance of common wealthes is in them that holde of pardōs then in them that vpon true confidence of Christs satisfaction doe despise them Let the experience of the six yeares of Kings Edwards reigne and the fiue and twentie yeares of her Maiesties moste Godlie and prosperous royall gouernment make triall decide the controuersie in the erection of of hospitalls prouiding for the poore setting vp of schooles and amplifying of the vniuersites relieuing of straungers redeeming of captiues such other workes of Christian charitie fruites of repentance in which although it must be cōfessed to our shame that we haue bene more slacke then our holy profession requireth yet will we giue ouer the aduantage offered of one yeare against fourescore and ten which is an olde mans age and ioyne issue vpon equall time of Queene Maries reigne or any other time of Poperie since pardons haue beene in price Prouided that the maintenance of superstition and Idolatrie in which the worlde hath alwaies beene mad be not accounted a Christian worke or fruite of repentance Ad hereunto that such workes as haue beene done by ours proceeded of a free loue to God and thankefullnes for his mercy not of a seruile feare or couetous desire of reward wherin mē shew the loue of themselues more thē the loue of god That Alexander the 3. who was somwhat aboue 400. yeares ago calleth pardōs vsed to be giuen in dedicatiō of churches remissions it prooueth no more the fulnes of thē then that it is not lawful for the pope to tread vpon the Emperors necke as the said Alexander did vpon the Emperor Frederike before the gate of S. Marks church at Venice But by the same rescript or de cretal epistle of Alexander the third in which mention is made of remissions it appeareth that such pardons were then but new come vp because the Archbishop of Canterburie could not resolue himselfe neither by his owne learning nor by the clergie of all Englands iudgement how farre they did extend therfore was faine to send to the Pope of Rome for the resolution It is in the decretals of Gregory in the title by you named cap 4. inscribed Arch episcopo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quòd autem consisluisti vtrum remissiones quae siunt in dedicationibus Ecclesiarum aut conferentium ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aliis prosint quà m his qui remittentib subsunt hoc volumus tuam fraternitatem senere quòd cùm à non suo indice 〈◊〉 nullus raleat vel absolui remissiones predict as illis prodesse 〈◊〉 modo 〈◊〉 quib vt prosint propris indices spiritualiter vel specialiter indulsirunt To the Archbishop of Canterburie Whereas thou didest aske me counsel whether remissions which be graunted in the dedication of Churches or to them that confer to the building of bridges doe profit any other then them which are vnder their iurisdiction that doe remit this we will thy brotherhoode to holde that where is
soules of that parish so well hang to gether these blasphemous dreames of Saints merites and Christes satisfaction seperated from the act of his passion claimed to be at the Popes and prelates disposition The aboundance of one releiuing the lacke of another whereof Saint Paull speaketh is no communication of merites nor anie thing like vnto it but a participation of the gifts of God in this life As for merites of Saintes what should we speake of thē or whence should they haue them when mercie is their crowne as Saint Ambrose saieth Finallie howsoeuer you abase the dignitie and authoritie of inferrior ministers in graunting of pardon the auncient Church admitted them to reconcile in the absence of the Bishoppe or in case of necessitie as diuerse Cannons doe shew Wherefore if this power of pardoning were anie such a thing as the auncient discipline the popish Priestes should not be wholie excluded from it ALLEN And yet the Bishops themselue haue not in this case so full power and prorogatiue being but rulers of portiones of Christs Church as he hath whome Christ appointed to be his owne Vicare through his whole dominion For as Christ tht head of the whole bodie is annointed farre more plentifullie then all his bretheren so doubtles he that occupieth his seat of iudgement throughout the whole earth to whome not onelie the affaires of all priuat men but also the confirmation and gouernement of all his brethren Bishops of what dignity so euer they be doth belong Vpon whome Christ hath laide the foundation of his Church and to whome he seuerallie gaue the keies of heauen with moste ample authoritie both to loose and binde feede and gouerne all the sheepe of his folde It is this man no doubt that hath the full treasure of the holie communion of Saints to bestow with maruelous authoritie ouer mans soule with wonderfull might in binding and exceeding grace and mercie in loosing This is the man of whome Saint Bernard saith alluding to Iosephs preheminence in Pharos house constituit eum Dominum Domus suae Principem omnis possessionis suae He hath made this man the Lord of all his house and the Prince of his wholl possession This man therefore representing Christs owne person through the wholl Church and hauing the cure and regiment of euerie one of Christs sheepe may moste lawfullie donare aliquid in persona Christi shew mercie to any man in Christes behalfe none being exempted from his iurisdiction nor any of the churches treasure restreinea from his disposition FVLKE The Pope graunteth to the Bishops as it pleaseth him a shadow of this power of pardoning reseruing the rest to himselfe for his owne aduantage and pre ferment The reasons here alledged to prooue that no Bishop hath so great preheminence in pardoning as the Pope are all petitions of principles which as they are here barelie affirmed so it shall be sufficient for me flatlie to denie them as that the Pope is Christs Vicar heade of the Church occupieth Christs seate of iudgement hath the foundation of the Church laied vpon him hath the keies of heauen seuerallie and so of all the rest Neither is S. Bernard a late writer sufficient to giue the Pope the steuardship of Gods house as Ioseph had of Potiphar the Egiptian therefore he hath no more power to pardon then any other Bishop admitting he were Bishop of Rome and not Antichrist which hath no power at al but vsurped tyrannie ouer Gods house ALLEN But because I cannot ground this my meaning better then vpon a generall Councell I will reporte the decree of the moste holie assemblie holden at Lateran more then three hundreth yeares since vnder Innocentius the thirde by which not onelie this doctrine of Pardons is approoued but also the superfluttie thereof and such disorder as was therein through couetousnes of euill persons or lacke of authoritte in the giuers is corrected with a declaration who be the onelie lawful ministers in such remissions of inioyned penance Thus goeth the decree Quia per indiseretas indulgentias atque superfluas quai quidam Ecclessarum Praelati facere non verentur claues Ecclesiae contemnuntur poeniientialis satisfactio eneruatur decernimus vt cum dedicatur Basilica non extendatur indulgentia extra annum siue ab vno solo siue à pluribus Episcopis dedicetur ac deinde in anniuersario dedicationis tempore quadraginta dies de iniunctis poenitentiis indultaremissio non excedat intra hunc quoque dierum numerum indulgentiarum literas praecipim is moderari quae pro quibuslibet causis aliquoties concedantur cùm Romanus Pontisex qui plenitudinem obtinet potestatis hoc in talibus moderamen consueuerit obseruare That is to saie Because the keies of the Church be contemned and sacramentall satisfaction is much weakened by certain indiscreete and superfluous Indulgences the which certain Prelates of the Churches are ouer bolde to bestowe we decree that hereafter at the dedication of any Chappel no pardon be giuen more then for one yeare whether it be dedicated by one bishop or moe the that there be noremissions afterwarde in the yearelie celebrating of the said dedications more then of fourtie daies of enioyned penance The like also to be obserued in all other common instruments by which for other good causes and holie purposes pardons shall be giuen seeing the Bishoppe of Rome himselfe who hath the fullnes of power herein vseth customably so to moderate the letters of pardons that proceede from him By which holie Councell you may perceiue not onelie that the Bishoppes of Gods Church may giue pardons but that the Bishoppe of Romesright is much more ample in this case then theirs can be and especiallie how carefull the Church euer hath beene to purge all corruption of doctrine or vsage crept into the worlde thorough the disorder of mans misbehauiour how wicked the indeuours of some euill disposed persons be who cease not vnhonestlie to attribute that to the Church of Christ which shee hath euer sought to redresse in the euill manners of them that haue disgraced the doctrine of trueth and made contemtible the moste profitable practize of holie thinges by their misuse of the same FVLKE Seeing you can ground your meaning no better as you your selfe confesse then vpon this popish Lateran Councell all indifferent readers may see how weake and latelie laid ground and foundation it hath To omit your translation of Basilica for a Chappell which rather signifieth a Cathedrall or Princelie Church I will consider what you gather out of this Councell First that Bishops may pardon nay rather that Bishoppes then did pardon Secondlie that the Bishop of Romes right is more ample nay rather that euerie Bishoppe of olde did graunt larger pardons then the Pope vsed to graunt who vsed not to passe one yeare in dedication and 40 daies in all other occasions For according to that moderation the Bishop of Rome did vse all
though vnperfect as they proceede from vs vnpure and vnworthie vessells yet neuerthelesse to be acceptable before God vnto rewarde which he giueth of meere mercie and not of merite or deserte Therefore there is no shadow for Popish pardons to shroude themselues vnder the winges of the good workes of Saintes which are the fruites of faith to declare them to be iustified not anie cause by which in the sight of God they can appeare iust and much lesse be able to iustifie other ALLEN Would God euerie man could feele how happie a thing it is to dwell as brethren together in the house of God vnder the appointed Pastours of that familie in which onelie Gods fauour is euerlastinglie found that they might therewith be partakers of all their workes that feare God might haue some sense and taste of that holie ointment of Gods spirite and gift of his grace that first was vpon the head of this householde our Master Christ Iesus and then dropped downe abundantly to his beard euen to the verie beard of Aaren whereby as S. Augustine saith the holie Apostles be signified and by them is ishued downe to the homme of Christes coate and imbrued all the borders of his garments that euerie one of the felowship might receiue benefite and feele the verdure thereof Quoniam 〈◊〉 mandauit Dominus benedictionem vitam vsque in seculum For in this happie felowship onlie our Lord bestoweth his manifold blessinges and life for euermore Amen FVLKE Who so looketh for sense from anie other fountaine or beginning then from the head alone shall feele no more then a stone But who so thorough faith is become a liuelie member of the mystical body of Christ by the operation of his holie spirite shall vndoubtedlie haue a moste sweete feeling of that moste happie spirituall coniunction of himselfe first vnto the heade which is Christ then vnto his bodie which is the Church and maie cheerefullie sing with Dauid Beholde how good and pleasant a thing it is that breethren dwel together But such is the abundance of grace and vertue in the head Christ that he seeketh not for merite or desert in himselfe or in anie of his fellow members although he receiue the gracious ointment of spirituall doctrine as S. Augustine doth expound it flowing from Christ to his Apostles and from them into all parts of his Church by which he is not taught to trust in himselfe or to depend vpon other mens merits or pardons but to repose the wholl hope of his saluation deliuerance from the wrath of God in the merites and satisfaction of Iesus Christ his heade towhome with the father and the holy ghost be euerlasting praise of our redemption reconciliation saluation glorification in his holie Church and felowship of Saints throughout all generations world without ende Amen God be praysed for euer AN APOLOGIE OF THE PROFESSORS OF THE GOSPEL IN FRAVNCE AGAINST THE RAILING DECLAMATION OF PEter Frarine a Louanian turned into English by Iohn Fowler Written by William Fulke AN APOLOGIE AGAINST THE RAILING DECLAMATION OF PETER FRARINE IT is pitie that the president of the Quodlibeticall disputations of Louane had no more discretion then to propounde in steede of exercises of learning a question perteining to the estate and doeings of other people with whome neither the speaker nor the hearers had any thing to doe neither were hable by knowledge of their affaires to discearne the cause nor by authoritie of their place to decide the controuersie But seeing they are disposed otherwise then wise men woulde be to be curious in a foraine common wealth and Fowler hath fantafied that the same also may apperteine to England which in Flaunders was de claimed against Fraunce Let vs see what Peter Frarine bringeth which may concerne the comon cause of religion where in they of France against whome he hath shot his bolt doe agree with vs in England First he saith as moste wicked persons they haue disturbed religion and peace A grieuous accusation But where is the proofe The question of religion he leaueth to be handled of others the deciding whereof neuerthelesse would purge the persons accused for the most part of the other crime of disturbance of peace Well the respōdent is not to be blamed that standeth vpon that question which according to the custome of the schoole was propounded to be the argument of his talke at that time And therefore he wil open declare first that there was no cause or iust occasion why these men should rise and make insurrection Then that they tooke weapon in hand without authoritie contrarie to law and in dispite of all Magistrates and Rulers Last and finallie that they vsed themselues to cruellie handled their sworde to bloodelie to the greatest dammage hindrance and losse that euer was felt in Christendome These are the diuisions of the circle with in which the orator hath inclosed himselfe But al these points so farre as they concerne the troubles in France are fullie and directlie confuted by all the edictes of pacification giuen forth to the knowledge of the world by Charles the ninth and Henrie the third Kings of Fraunce in which they haue alwaies acknowledged that the Protestants vpon iust cause with sufficient authoritie and in their seruice and to their honour haue put them selues in armes and done whatsoeuer the necessitie of warre lawfullie taken in hande hath inforced them to doe Then iudge whether against the publike testimonie of two Kings whome the matter moste concerned and that more then once or twise repeted I need to stand in the cōfutation of Peter Frarines petty priuate declamation Notwithstanding although I haue with one hatchet hewen a sunder the wholle stoke of this rayling oration yet I will not spare to brattell out the bowes and branches thereof in answering to euerie particular quarrell and cauil of the same There was not anie good or reasonable cause saith he why the founders and brokers of this new Gospell should be driuen to put them-selues in armes against the Catholikes See how the vaine declaimer which refused before to handle the question of religion now taketh vpon him most arrogantlie to decide the same For if the Protestantes be founders and brokers of a new Gospell and the Papistes be good Catholikes there is no cause why they should once open their mouthes against the Papistes much lesse arme them-selues as he said they did against the Catholikes But if this matter pertaine to the question of religion the debating whereof is not presentlie intended let vs pardon him these preiudiciall tearmes as well now as hereafter and consider onelie what reasons he bringeth to prooue his purpose No lawes ought to be chaunged with out great cause least of all the lawes of religion So farre we both agree but there is great cause to change lawes ofreligion when Antichristes decrees haue displaced the lawes of God the onelie rule of true religion Yet saith he
there can neuer be anie reason or sufficient cause alledged that innouation of religion should be attempted by force of armes by warre and rebellion by fier and sword by murder and blood shed of good and faithfull subiectes Let this also be graunted for this nothing toucheth the cause of them which to mantaine a law made for religion and to defend them-selues from the crueltie of priuate persons are required by the gouernours of the realme to arme themselues for defence of the King his lawes and their owne liues The lawe of the Locrensians pleaseth him well that the procurer of anie alteration should preach with a rope about his necke wherewith he should be strangled if the audience misliked his deuise The rope had neede to be in wise mens handes where that lawe should be practised or els the Apostles and first preachers of religion in the world might haue bene hardlie handled before they had halfe vttered their message And therefore the Princes and rulers of the word in this our time are wiser then Peter Frarine or Iohn Fowler in not establishing and practising of this Iawe as these men would wish they had But the default thereof saith he hath caused so lamentable an estate of all thinges warres tumults slaughters ruines Churches and townes ouerturned c. Admit these were the effectes as they are nothing lesse of the Protestants preaching what woulde the lawe of the Locrensians haue staied in this case when with the good liking both of the Prince and of the people these preachers haue bene heard and their doctrine receiued It greeueth him that it was free for these preachers without anie feare of the rope frankelie and boldelie to perswade with the people And thinketh he that feare of the Locrensians rope woulde haue restrained them whome the terror of Antichristes fire and tragicall torments neuer discouraged to publish the message of Christ their master Naie they went further from wordes to woundes and blowes they attempted reformation by ciuill warre and rebellion There was a companie of desperate persons that ranne about the strcetes of Parris with naked swordes in their hands and cried out the gospell the gospell as Claudius de sanctes an vtter enemie of the gospell beareth witnes But I praie you M. Frarine were these preachers that so ranne and cried that beside varnished wordes disbursed woundes and blowes If they were not preachers as your author Claudius cannot saie they were how hangeth your talke togither Must the preachers be charged with euerie disorder of their hearers Then let the Popish preachers answere for all thefts murders treasons incests rebellions and other offenses of papists but if anie such desperate persons ranne about as you saie how prooue you that they were disciples of the protestant Preachers and not rather futious firebrands of the popish friers and Sorbonicall teachers by whose seditious sermons they were incensed to murder the Protestants and true professors of the Gospell for how like is it that so smal a number of the Protestants as was neuer able to afford but an handfull of fighting men in Parris would attempt to arme themselues against such an infinite multitude of zealous mutinous Papists as were in that Citie Where the verie Croisters and common porters that I speake nothing of so manie thousand artificers had bene able not onlie to haue withstood their attempt but also to haue chased them out of the citie Notwithstanding if you willneedes vrge your Authors reporte that they were Protestantes why doe you not tell vs how manie they slewe with those glistering swordes At least wise name one whome they wounded with those weopons in their handes when they cried out The gospell the gospell Contrariwise how thirstie of bloode the Papistes their preachers haue beene it is an easie matter to make manifest proofe For that I speake nothing of the horrible massacre most cruellie executed not onelie in Paris but throughout al the realme of France the crueltie whereof would ouer whelme at once and swallow vp whatsoeuer can be fained of the Protestantes seueritie There be manie hundreth witnesses aliue which can reporte that in the latter end of the reigne of King Henrie the second the Popish preachers perceiuing how greatly he fauoured their cause stirred vp the people in their dailie sermons vnto sedition affirming that it was a thing acceptable vnto God and meritorious if anie man should kill a Luthe rane whereupon insued manie horrible murders of which some are perticularlie recorded in historie In the Church yeard of Saint Innocents immediatlie after a sermon when two were brawling as the people came forth of the Church and the one more of spite then of anie cause called the other Lutherane the people streight waie ranne vpon him and pursued him into the Church whether he fled for sanctuary A certaine gentleman passing that waie with his brother which was a Popish Priest hearing that a man should be slaine of the people in deuoureth to pacifie their mindes with faire words to deliuer the pore man from their hands A hedge Priest by and by crieth out that this gentleman was the man whome they sought for which durst defend a Lutherane The people immediately set vppon the gentleman The priest his brother began to speake for him but thereby they were more inraged To be short after they were both drawne out of the Church the gentleman hardlie escaped into the Curats house The poore priest with manie woundes was cruellie murdered saying his Confiteor by which it did sufficientlie appeare he was no Lutherane Not manie daies before that a certaine Sorbonist whom they called the Picardes soule a common trumpet of sedition in those daies to inflame the people against the Lutheranes vsed often to beate vpon this point that it was an holie thing to shed the Lutheranes blood The slaughter of whome as of the Cananites of olde time was verie acceptable to God and that the handes of the godlie Catholikes should so be consecrated Acertaine student which came to heare one of his sermons chaunced to smile vpon his fellow which sat by him an olde woman that espying cried out that there was a Lutherane which mocked the preacher The brutish people no sooner heard that voice but without further enquirie they drue that student out of the Church and most cruellie digged out his eies and dinged out his braines The indiferent reader may reasonablelie by these examples gather what hauocke was made of them that were knowne to be Protestants indeede when vpon so light occasions they that were not knowen nor iustlie suspected were so suddenlie murdered when the Priestlie apparell could not defend the priest who fauoured the Lutherans no further then to speake a worde for his owne brother who was in manifest daunger of beeing murdered while he sought no more but by honest perswasions to deliuer a thirde person from murder against whom there passed no sentence to conuict him of Lutheranizme but the malitious reproch of his
texte of corruption testifying that the auncient reading was CAROV which signifieth they haue pearced which Mazorites said Master Sherwine And so much touching the comparison betweene Master Campian and Master Sherwine in whome as there was litle helpe for your cause so we thinke you haue lost noe greate aduantage by their taking away out of this life But let vs see what be the wordes of your publike challenge We request you yea we coniure you either for trueths sake if you seeke it or for your owne credits sake if yee will retaine it that you yeald vs after so much sute and supplication some equall triall either by writing preaching or disputing Although we should not yealde either to your requeste or to your 〈◊〉 we might haue that loue of trueth and care of our credit which becommeth vs. For trueth hath bene so well and long tried to be on our parte that our credit in mainteining thereof cannot be cracked if we should altogeather refuse any new triall For why should you be admitted after 24. yeares to any new triall which refused in the beginning so lawfull and solemne a triall as the like in any memorie was neuer offered in this lande what sute or supplication you haue made I knowe not except you meane the seditious challenge of Campian which was caste about as a lible to erect and stirre the wauering mindes of your inconstant disciples into expectation of some great alteration not lawfully and orderlie deliuered to them to whome it was intituled as an humble sute or supplication Againe there is noe reason that vpon any sute or supplication there should any further triall be graunted vnto you that haue beene alreadie so often conuicted condemned in the cause as though the matter were stil in question or doubt with vs but onely in respect of some weake and doubtfull persons vnto whose infirmitie in hope of their satisfaction and full resolution something may be yealded For what wise man would graunt to the Manichees Arrians Macedonians and such other absurde heretikes so long since condemned at this time any new triall or iudgement by publike disputation preaching or writing although they did neuer soe importunatelie craue it yea as you doc adiure and coniure them to it And seeing you are so indifferent as you pretend to enter into any equal trial either by writing preaching or disputation what maketh you so vehement in calling for triall when one of these waies neither is nor can be denied vnto you namelie triall by writing yea you haue beene prouoked and challenged to the most equal way of triall by writing which is by syllogisme to trie how you can vphold any of your heresies by vs condemned whereunto you are now the rather to be called because you complaine that Campian was not suffered to oppose Set downe your syllogismes in the defense of any article of controuersy that you holde against vs or in oppugning any point of doctrine that we hold against you either in writing or in print so as they may come to our handes you shal receiue a speedie and a readie answere This triall you may haue without daunger sute or charges if it were triall and not treason that you sought to practize vnder pretext of publike trial by preaching or disputing Els what neede you be so importune for anie equall triall when this the moste equal the moste easie the moste profitable triall or way of triall for finding out and iudgeing on which side trueth doth stand neither is nor can be taken from you There is noe reason in the world you say but onelie feare that may mooue vs to denie you this your request But they that be wise can easilie iudge that there is great reason to denie you anie such request where your purpose is knowne to be sedition and not triall neuerthelesse your request of triall by writing is not denied you as I haue saide before vse it then when you thinke good and make no more babling of triall if you seeke nothing but triall and be indifferent to take anie of these three kindes of triall The reason of the state you saie which is alleadged against your request is mosts vaine For what can a peaceable disputation graunted you for religion indaunger our state but onelie it may chaunce to discouer our errors and so make the hearers detest our state of heresie You carie peace in your mouthes and swordes in your hartes I haue touched some reasons alreadie they that gouerne the state can saie much more As for peaceable disputations vppon controuersies in religion are dailie practized in our scholes for excercise sake in which all the arguments you can bring are vrged as vehementlie as you your selues can doe in peaceable manner and are so clearlie auoided either by the answerer or at lest by the moderator as all reasonable hearers may plainlie see that we stande for trueth against 〈◊〉 and heresie and if anie do wauer in opinion vpon so manifest euidence of trueth he iudgement without that we stand of triall that are readie to abide stand with our duetie and is demonstration of trueth As for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you doe once againe require that obteine for you whatsoeuer you is well knowne to be but a 〈◊〉 for an other purpose then triall of trueth whereof if you were so desirous as you would seeme to be by your challenge and so indifferent to accept anie of the three before named kindes of triall as in wordes you did so latelie make shew you would not be so importunate for this kinde of triall by disputing which is not like to be graunted vnto you lest it might be surmised that we would be content to bring our faith into doubte and disceptation refuse the safest the quietest and the best kinde of triall that is offered vnto you which is by writing You fare like a cowardlie russian which knowing a man to be bounde to the peace will make no end of bragging and challenging him to fight but if anie man that is at libertie offer to trie a blow or two with him he is as colde to the combate as he was before hotte to the challenge You offer your selues to the labor charges and perill of life and yet you aske for your safeties such a warrant from her Maiestie as the late councell of Trent did offer to all protestants of the world If you offer your selues to the perill of your liues what need you anie warrant for your safeties except you thinke her maiesties warrant is no better then such as is giuen by popish Councels and princes which notwithstanding anie safeconduits leagues truces or warranties of safetie are at their libertie to make contrarie Canons and to execute most cruell burnings massacres and murthers of Gods saints and innocent lambes which haue committed their liues into such faithlesse tyrants hands But God be praised her highnes honour hath neuer bene blemished with the least spotte of vnfaithfulnes that you should seare
notwithstanding her maiesties warrant anie daunger to your liues or boast that you offer your selues to perill of life when you demaund a warrant for your safeties without the which you dare not so much as vtter your name that be the challengers And therefore it were a ridiculous sute for a warrant that our ministers shoold commence in your behalfe when they know not what you are nor what warrant you haue from any learned Papists to make such large offers vponwarrant of your safteties seeing it is knowne that the best learned of your side in England haue not only refused the same but some also iudged al disputation to be vnprofitable Your offers I confesse are verie large as that we shal appointe in what kinde and number at what time to what place you shal come either our countrey men onely or strangers to dispute in our vniuersities before the learned onelie that you giue vs leaue to call all the learned protestantes of Europe for our defence you taking onelie our owne countrimen That you giue vs leaue to oppose or defend begin or end or vse anie prerogatiue that maie not impugne the indifferencie of triall But when you aske what we can alleadge why we should not accept this We answere that beside manie causes not here needefull to be rehearsed though before in parte touched we alleadge for this present that we do not beleeue that you are able to performe anie of these liberall offers except we see matter of greater credit then an epistle of an vnknowne papist written to Master Charke a priuate man If you had shewed vs such warrant or commission as wee might probablie haue beene perswaded of the performance of these promises you might more reasonablie haue required what we had to alleadge whie we did not accept them but now there is noe reason in the worlde that we should intreate with our Prince Magistrates vppon these friuolous wordes of an obscure hedge-creeper or boasting bench-whistler for anie thing we knowe I am in the name of all my fellow Catholikes to renew c Once againe I saie to you ministers c. We will giue you leaue c and such like But it is not sufficient that you are liberall at home onelie except you be lauish abroade also for if we had leuer make triall in other Countreies we maie choose what Protestant state we liste and procuring you safetie there you will meete vs. Or if we please to come into anie Catholike Kingdome or Countrie you will procure what securitie soeuer reasonablie we will demaunde and more then that you will beare our expenses also rather then so good a worke should remaine vnattempted or anie other condition that we can denise you will fulfill Then you conclude If we offer you reason then deale somewhat reasonablie with vs againe For all the world will crie shame and beginne to discredite you if you will neither giue nor take vpon so greate oddes as here are offered you I answere you offer vs great wordes but no reason at all because we knowe not what assurance you can make vs to performe your wordes If Master Charke a man well knowne by his name should make the like offer to you by such an other printed epistle or taking your offer should promise you as great warrant as you require at home or abroad and moreouer to beare your expenses rather then you should saile to appeare at anie time or place by him assigned is your simplicitie so great that you would keepe the appointed daie and place of disputation vppon his pure promise without further assurance And yet you can not misse to heare of him his dwelling place at London whereas we know not to whome nor whether to returnethe warrant that it may come to you except per haps youwould haue it proclamed with sound of trum pet sent into all partes of the realme that you maie heareof it It maie be you will alleadge that it is great daunger for you to appeare without warrant of securitie and noe perill for vs to procure you assurance of safetie But all wise men maie see that we should deserue noe lesse punnishment by procuring such a warrant for you vppon so light a grownde if you did not accepte it as you should incur appearing without warrant for anie difference in religion if you be not guilty of fellonie or treason If you ment nothing but peaceable disputation for trial of truth you would not make your challenge in printed libels and seditious pamphlets but rather seeke it at the handes of them that haue authoritie to graunt it by intercession of those forreigne princes with whome you pretend your credit to be so great that you can procure what securitie soeuer reasonablie we can demaund in their dominions But to vse anie such lawful meanes I trowe you will make no haste when you wil not accept that quiet forme of triall by syllogismes in writing which by Doctor Fulke so manie yeares agoe was offered vnto you and yet is free for you to take if it please you and that without sute without daunger and to the best and surest triall of the trueth But if we dare not venture with disputations yet you require vs to graunt you certaine sermons to encounter with vs vpon this matter A verie reasonable request I assure you when you will graunt the like libertie of preaching in Spaine or Italie we will become suters for you to preach in England Or if that also be to daungerous we must procure you but a litle passage for your bookes speciallie Master Charke must obteine licence free passage for this booke vntil it be answered Sir whenwe see what passage you can wil procure for our bookes at lest such as be not answered vntill they be answered in places where they are now restrained we will endeuour that you shall haue the like entertainement with vs. In the meane time take what controuersie you will or thinke you selfe best hable to prooue against vs set downe such arguments as you haue to oppose against our assertion in lawfull and logicall syllogismes and whether you send them written or printed you shall receaue them againe printed with our answeres to them and haue as free passage for your arguments as shall be graunted for our answers If you will replie against our answers in like forme aforesaide you shall haue our 〈◊〉 in like manner set forth with your replie and 〈◊〉 the grace of God you shall not faile of toties quoties vntill you be non plus or which we had rather will he vntill you yeald to the trueth This offer is so reasonable that when the like was made to M. Mettham one of the prisoners at Wisbeach M. Fecknam of his equitie acknowledged that there could no more be required Butas Mettham did then refuse it so I am afraid will you And yet it is more then you will doe for vs to giue licence that our bookes may
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
of necessarie collection For Logicke would stil iudge whether such meaning could be necessarilie gathered out of such wordes Seeing we are not bound to creditte any writings since the diuine inspired scriptures but so farre as they agree with the scriptures and receiue the light of trueth from them But those auncient writers to whome he would haue vs to referre our selues liued so many hun dred yeares after the Apostles and Euangelists the writers of the new testament as they could no more declare to them then to vs their meaning in their writings and therefore those auncient fathers which ground purgatorie prayer to saintes sacrifice of the altar vse of the crosse c. beside tradition vpon the scriptures as the answerer saith must shew the necessarie collection of them by the iudgement of demonstration seeing they neuer sawe the writers neuer heard them speake nor possiblie could liuing so long after them or els they can carie no credit of necessarie collection outof the expresse wordes of holy scripture As for tradition without scripture since God hath giuen the holie scripture is as good as the credit of men may be without a warrant from God A fourth waie of triall of spirites with him is Councells by which olde heretikes haue beene tried and they are content to referre themselues to all the Christian Councells that euer haue beene since Christ died We acknowledge Christian councells to be a godlie meane to exa mine and trie the spirites but according to the scriptures onelie for matters of faith as in the example of the first Councell of Christendome Act. 15. where the question was determined by authoritie of the scriptures But that the Papists dare abide the triall by al Councells it is false for they admit none but by the Popes consent they admitte nothing in them but that the present Pope doth allow Many Councells in Aphrica forbad appellations to Rome the general Councell of Chalcedon made the Bishop of Constantinople of equal dignitie with the Bishop of Rome the Bishop of Constantinople condemned and accursed a Pope sor an heretike the Pope of that time confirmed it yet now it is not holden for Catholike But I will spare examples vntill this lustie gallant dare aduenture the triall whereof he maketh the challenge But seeing there are many points of controuersies betweene vs and the Papists which in no auncient councell came in question he bobs vs with the last most learned Godlie and generall Councell of Trent which was gathered of purpose for triall of hercticall spirites whereunto all safe conduct being offered we refused to come for triall As though the Catholikes would haue come to the Councell of Nice if nothing might haue beene therein determined but that which pleased Arius or to the Councell of Constantinople if nothing might haue beene concluded but that Macedonius would allow Or to the Councells of Ephesus and Chalcedon if when all had beene saide that which liked Nestorius and Eutiches must haue bene holden for Catholike Such is our case we accuse the Pope to be an heritike yea and to be Antichrist the Pope will admit no councell but where he him selfe is iudge nor any to haue any voice determinatiue but onely such as are sworne to maintaine his heresies and ambition It is great pitie but the Protestants must come to such a councell Such were many councells holden of olde time by heretikes but for the most part not frequented by the Catholikes Some of our profession were at Trent but what entertainement had they euen such as their aduersaries could afforde them they were not permitted to haue any speach but as pleased their enemies wherefore when they saw noe equitie vsed as they could looke for no better before they came they left the heretikes to consult among them-selues by example of auncient fathers in like Chapters of heretikes The sift waie of triall is to referre the matter to the olde Doctors which liued before the controuersies began of which we haue spoken latelie and this we haue often vsed and still vse against the Papists in most controuersies although the authoritie of man is no certaine rule to trie which is the truth of God Augustine against Iulian vsed this waie rightlie first confuting the Pelagians by the authoritie of the holie scripture and then by the testimonie of the auncient fathers also Theodosius also in a case determined by the holie scripture did politikelie circumuent the heretikes after the aduise of Sisinius the Nouatian by the suggestion of Nectarius the Catholike to put them to a foile which had good successe because the others cause was naught But Epiphanius hath a hard saying against vs as our answerer thinketh It is enough to say against all heresies the catholike church hath not taught this the holy fathers haue not admitted this But I wene Epiphanius doth not meane that it is enough to saie so except men can prooue it to be so For els it is aseasy for heretikes to saie so against Catholikes as for Catholikes against heretikes And here out answerer voucheth Epiphanius quoting onelie lib. 2. contra haere but no Chapter of so long a booke wherebie knowing him to be a common foyster we maie well suspect his honestie in this voucher vntill he shew vs in what Chapter we shall finde it The sixtwaie of triall with him is to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersall Church or great multitude of Christians out of which the other part first departed But to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersal Church is no waie of triall but the matter to be tried And the description that he maketh of the Church is as vncerten the great multitud of Christians out of which the other part first departed For the Catholike Church is not alwaies the greatest multitude When the East Church was deuided from the West the one was as great a multitude as the other yea considering the number of prouinces of the East and the largenesse of them it was the greater And one heresie some times departeth out of another as the Rogatians from the Donatists the Eunomians from the Arrians the Iacobites from the Eutichians c. Neither doth Saint Augustine against the Manichecs make the consent of people and the name of Catholike of them-selues to be a sufficient waie of trial but among many thinges which altogether held him beside the authoritie of the holie scriptures he accounteth these which with the truth are a good confirmation but can be no preiudice against the manifest truth as he confesseth in the same place To the iudgement of Vincentius we will subscribe to holde that which euerie where which alwaies which of all hath beene beleeued so hath no point of Poperie Hoc est etenim verè proprièque Catholicum quòd ipsa vis nominis ratioque declarat quod omnia verè vniuersaliter comprehendit For that is truelie and properlie Catholike saith Vincentius which thing the verie force and reason of the name declareth
causes that he alledgeth of setting downe his proud censure might seeme somewhat probable if he had set downe Master Charks replie also Which seeing he durst not doe he cannot boast that all thinges shal be made cleere by putting downe the censure onelie and ioyning thereto his owne defence thereof when there is more lacke of Master Charkes replie betweene then there would haue beene of his censure before it But he pleased himselfe as arrogant fooles doe commonly so much in his owne brood that he thought it was neuer sufficiently seene when all wise men were cloyed with it alreadie How well he performeth his brags of answering all the substance of Master Charkes replie the thing itselfe would shew to them that shall read both the treatises together without partialitie AGAINST THE DEFENSE THe defender in the last wordes of his answere to Master Charkes preface promising to omit nothing of substance which Master Charke saieth nor to let it passe without due examination doth neuerthelesse omit more then two whole leaues of Master Charkes replie vntouched and that in the verie beginning where there is more matter of substance to discouer the false and fraudulent dealing of him and his fellowe papistes then he might abide to examine meaning to continue his lewde purpose lest he should be driuen to discouer some part of his owne vnhonest practises And yet he is not ashamed to saie that the replier euen at the veric entrance lceseth his patience for that the papistes require short triall in disputation How so good sir for sooth because he asketh whoe is Campian or the seedemen that they shouldpresume to make so shorte worke in auowing the popishe religion which hath nothing but tyrainnie lyes hypocrisie and rebellion to defend it or restore it Which as it may be saied with trueth so it maie be saide with pacience without anie feare of the name of disputation in which Master Charke by Gods grace did quit him selfe so well against your Champion as if euer a proud hypocrite were apalled you may haue shame of your bragging Iesuite howsoeuer you would turne it ouer vnto Master Charke and saie that Campians quiet behauiour cooled him with shame Where contrariwise Campian being put out of his byas of loose and lauish talke by that order which was taken to haue his answeres written and read vnto him to be acknowledged of him was so amazed at the waight of Master Charkes arguments which he perceiued could not be answered with bare wordes wherein he vsed to applaude vnto him selfe before that he was enforced to a quiet behauiour much like a quarelling Ruffian which when other men are quiet is challenging of al men but when he seeth himselfe ouermacthed can learne to be quiet and calme enough As for the reproches iniuries and tormentes that you saie Campian tooke so patiently at Master Charkes handes al men may see how falselie you charge him with such matters as do nothing appertaine vnto him while vnder the name of Master Charke and the rest of his fellow Ministers you thinke you maie more largelie raile against the Prince and Magistrates for execution of iustice against Campian and his traiterous Complices Master Charke next to his question Who is Campian c. addeth another Where haue these disputers staied so long time But to this you make no answer and yet a matter of substance that after more then twentie yeares staying from challenge of disputation now you come forth on a soddaine as though you desired nothing so much as disputation To the third question you would seeme to answer What can they get by renewing the battelles so often and so latelie refused by their Captaines and fathers c Here because the names of Doctor Watson and Master Fecknam are noted in Master Charkes margent you conclude that nothing els is ment but that which is contained in the litle pamphlet of the conference in Wisbeach for which so much as concerneth Doctor Fulke answere is made by him-selfe in his confutation of papistes quarelles pag. 16. 17. 18. 19. c. but that Master Charke meaneth not onelie of that you might well enough perceiue by his wordes so often and so latelie refused That of Wisbeach was but one refusall whereas to the same persons and other of like quallitie the conference hath bene often offered and neuer accepted whether they were challenged priuatlie as in those Bishoppes houses where they remained daintie prisoners or els by commaundement from the Magistrats as at wisbeach more then once they were offered to haue conference if it had liked them to consent thereunto And who knoweth not the most solemne publique conference at Westminster in the first yeare ofher maiesties raigne with too too much shame of the popish prelacie giuen ouer and refused Yet you saie that at the verie same time of Wisbeach conference and both before since both you and they haue sued by all meanes possible to be admitted to a lawfull equall and free disputation either in Cambridge or anie place els that shall be appointed Name the pesons that sued and them to whome they sued and all the possible meanes you vsed and bring good proofe of your saying for any such disputation before the time of Campians challenge or els we must be faine to thinke and bolde to saie that you faine without colour and lie without measure Our offers and your refusal haue bene publike and notorious besides many priuat offers able to be prooued by sufficient testimonies I thinke not denied by the persons them selues while they liued You bring nothing but a seditious libell of Campian of all the possible meane of suit and yet you aske Master Charke what proceeding is this Where are now the lies and hypocrisie As though they were not manifest one your part As for tyrannie being an odious word you will say nothing nor turne it to vs againe Let racking quartering of those that offered disputation saie you be accounted scholasticall reasoning with you A pretie ieste for men wot well that Campian was racked for nothing els but for offering disputation and quartered for the same Although his owne letter conuinced him to conceale some secret which he promised neuer to vtter come racke come rope and much other plaine euidence prooued him to be a ranke traytor besides his answeres subscribed with his owne handes to these interrogatories Whether he doth acknowledge the traiterous writting of Saunders Bristow and Allen to be wicked in wholl or part and whether he doth acknowledge her Maiestie to be a true and lawfull Queene or a pretensed Queene and depriued c. To the first his answer was that he medleth not to nor fro and will not further answer To the second that this question dependeth vpon the fact of Pius Quintus whereof he is not to iudge and therefore refuseth further to answere Let this be the answere of a loyall subiect with you if Campian or any of his complices were racked and
discharge your Iesuites of herisie and treason the wordes of scorpions and venemous spiders are no railing termes but apt to expresse their venemous and poisonous practises for they are vsed in scripture to describe the like mischeuous workes as Apocal. 9. Esa. 59. 5. The rest of his speaches haue either the same or the like phrases iustified in the scriptures against corrupters of Religion and enimies of publike peace as we shewe your Iesuites to be for the former and their practises to the confusion of some of them haue beene discouered for the latter With Master Hanmers termes I will not meddle who is to answer for him-selfe when you haue confuted his arguments or els when he shall see it conuenient Doctor Fulke the next man whom you condemne to be of a ruffianlike spirit because he saith shew me Allin if thou canst for thy guttes as though you raile not more of him in your ruffianlike terme then he in speaking of Allens guttes whatsoeuer the cause or affection were hath answered alreadie in his own behalfe in such sort as more shame redowndeth to you that haue gathered together his vehement and sharpe speaches vttered in manie bookes and to those whome you complaine by him to be abused while he giueth a reason of his speaches then all the eloquence you haue wil be able to wipe away in a larger treatise then your defense of the Censure as yet appeareth to be Confut of Topish quarrelles page 20. and so forth in 16. or 17 pages If it were no more but your marginall note Docter Fulkes talent in railing wherein you abuse an holie phrase of scripture like an Italian Atheist to mooue Sardonicall laughter it were much more able to conuince you of a ruffianlike spirit then anie terme that D. Fulke vseth seeing such vnreligious allusions vnto the termes and matters of holie scripture cannot be defended in anie man cause or manner The like you haue of Primitias spiritus and Luthers lying with a Nunne in the Lord all which argue a prophane spirite and a licentious intemperate and almoste blasphemous tongue or penne in anie that vse them or the like When you haue almoste done with Doctor Fulke you take vpon you to shew the like rayling in the Masters as you terme them that you haue done in the schollers and beginning with Iohn Caluin you saie that his ordinarie terme especially against Bishoppes and such like as are his superiours is to call them Nebulones knaues which beside the foull gall whence it proceedeth is vnseemelie For this you neither note nor quote anie one place where he vseth that terme in such sort as either his gall might thereby be espied or the same signfying light persons might not fitlie be applied vnto them vpon whome he bestowed the terme As for your popish Bishoppes are not his superiours but for the most part deserue sharper termes then Nebulones euen such as were fitte for Annas Caiphas Ananias and the rest of that race which were as great prelates as they Hauing nothing more against Caluin you passe ouer to Luther who in his booke against King Henrie the eight of England ministreth vnto you larger matter to triumph against him where in it maie be doubted whether you had greater pleasure in discouering of Lu ther 's intemper at stile then in displaying those odious and long since buried reproches against that noble Prince so great an enimie to your Romish Antichrist which as they were vnseemelie in respect of either of their persons him that did write the Prince against whom he did write so they were afterward misliked of Luther himselfe who in as great humilitie as before he did write in disdaine craued pardon at his handes not for the matter substance of his booke but for his vnreuerent handling of the same against a King of so great nobility of so good expectation the cause that mooued him to such destemper was for that he supposed that the booke was not endited by the King him selfe but by some enimie of his to procure his dishonour as he writeth in the same booke Crederes ab insigni hoste regis hunc librum editum in perpetuam regis ignominiam You would thinke that his booke was set forth by some notable enimie of the Kinges to the perpetuall shame of the King And in his Epistle of submission he declareth that he suspected cardinall Wolsey to be the author thereof which made him the bolder to write as he did against it And in the storie of Sir Thomas Moores life written by his sonne in lawe Master Roper which I haue seene it appeareth that Kinge Henrie tooke great displeasure against Sir Thomas Moore for the edition of that booke by which he receiued more dishonour then by anie thing in all his life Luther therfore writing against him that did abuse the name of the Kinge in defence of an euill cause thought he was not bound to spare him because of the Kinges title but that he might so much the rather be free to inueigh against him But this to saie the trueth might be some part of an excuse though not a sufficient defense of his doing neuerthelesse it followeth not here of that he could not be an elect vessell of God or that he had no part of Gods spirit or that he was herein worsse then anie russian or rakehell as our seuere Censurer saith without either malice or railing spirit I warrant you For Gods elect children they that haue a great part of his spirit do sometimes fal into far greater crimes then this and yet by his grace are brought to repentance as Luther was for this vntemperat stile and thereof made open confession in his epistle of submission againe he erred by immoderat zeale yet in defense of the truth which is not the cause that mooueth ruffians and rakehelles to rage Wherefore it is well with Luther that hath alreadie answered the matter before a more wise and merciful iudge and standeth not at the curtesie of our solemne Censurer But it is more to your purpose that you bring in Luther inueighing against the Caluinistes where he had not by our owne confession a good cause the Caluinistes againe as bitter against him a tast whereof though you refer the matter to another place you wil needes giue vs here by citing of one place in stead of all the rest and that is of the Church of Tygurine against Luther Tygur 〈◊〉 3. contra supermam Lutherij confessionem whole wordes you promise to rehearse out of what edition I cannot tell for the edition of Tigure by Froshere 1545. of Gwalters translation reporteth their wordes somewhat otherwise and therefore I thinke in this place as in diuers other you are but a broaker of other mens ware to put forth that you neuer sawe your selfe but gather out of some other mans notebooke which reported not al thinges either with such diligence or faithfullnes as had beene requisite to be found in
yeares that none of the writers that gathered the monumentes of such auncient Fathers could once heare of them I meane Eusebius Hierome Gennadius The other testimonie out of the second of Nice which you quote as fondlie I will not stand vpon seeing it is of later time and lesle credit among such a number of bastardes made legitimat to set vp Idolatrie How well you haue iustified your nine slaunders and prooued Luthers Doctrine to be licentious and carnall I will not spend time in repeting let the reader iudge of that which hath beene brought on both sides The fift section entituled Other doctrines of Luther and of Caluine and Beza VVHat other absurdities you are able to bring out of Luther you haue giuen vs a sufficient taste in the former section in which you handle the matter of licentious libertie by which the indifferent reader may esteeme of the rest For ribaudrie scurrilitie and thameles falsehood of which you say you haue examples more infinit and without number when we heare of them you shall receiue answer either of confession defense or excuse But in the meane time you will note vs one or two thinges of impietie as they lie together in one treatise that we haue in England which he desendeth obstinatelie after they were condemned by the Church being such positions as cut the verie sinewes of all vertue and so open the high waie vnto all dissolution The first example is when he holdeth that the verie iust man in euerie good worke doth sinne mortallie by which saie you how doth he discourage all men from doing good I answer whatsoeuer Luther hath written to that effect as not to discourage men from doing good but to dissuade them from trusting in their owne doing when it is at the best And seeing there is so great imperfection in the best deedes of men he encourrageth men to labour more toward perfection He teacheth men therefore to a scribe to the grace of God that which is properlie his and to acknowledge their owne infirmity which without his grace can do nothing but euill which grace secing it is sufficient for vs in that his power is made perfect in our weakenes there is no discouragement either vnto faith or good workes for the sufficiencie of his grace shall comforte vs in faith and the strength of his mercie shal be glorious in our infirmitie Wherefore this Doctrine of Luther doth no more discourage men from doing good then he that saith whosoeuer hitteth not the pricke doth misse the marke doth discourage men from shooting as nighe as they can The second example of impietie is when he saith A man hath not in his power to doe euell Whereby saie you how doth he encourage all lewde people to wickednes deliuering them from the fault thereof But Luther doth neither of both For albeit he say that it is not in the power of man to make his waies euill because noe man hath anie power to do anie thing but from God in whome we liue mooue and haue our beeing yet doth he not deliuer the wicked man from the fault of his wickednes because he sinneth willinglie though he can do nothing els but sinne being destitute of the grace of God and therefore sinneth necessarilie for proofe whereof Luther alledgeth Augustine de spiritu litera cap. 4. saying Liberum arbitrium sine gratia non valet nisi ad peccandum c. freewill without grace auaileth not but to commit sinne c. And further he saith Ieremias quoque cap. 10. sic dicit Scio Domine quoniam non est hominis via eius nec viri est vt dirigat gressus suos Quid potuit apertius dici si via sua gressus sui non sint in potestate hominis quomodo via Dei gressus dei erunt in potestate eius Via enim hominis est ea quam ipsi vocant naturálem virtutem faciendi quod est in se. Ecce haec non est in arbitrio hominis seu liberi arbitrij Quid ergo liberum arbitrium est nisires de solo titulo Quomodo potest sese ad bonum praeparare cùm nec in potestate sit suas vias malas facere Nam malaopera in impiis Deus regit vt prouerb 16. dicit Omnia propter semet ipsum operatus est Dominus etiam impium addiem malum Rom. 1. Tradidit illos deus in reprobum sensum vt faciant quae non conueniunt c. Ieremie cap. 10. saith thus I know O Lord that a mans waies is not in his owne handes neither is it in man to direct his owne steppes what could be said more plainlie if a mans owne waie and his owne steppes be not in his owne power how shall the waie and steppes of God be in his power for the waie of man is that which they call the natural power of doing that which is in him Beholde this is not in the will of man or of freewill What is free will then but a thing of title and name onelie How can a man prepare him selfe to good when there is not in his power so much as to make his wates euill for God gouerneth euen the euill workes in the vngodlie as he saith in the 16. of the Prouerbes God hath made all thinges for him-selfe euen the wicked man against the euill daie and Rom. 1. God hath deliuered them into a reprobate minde to do those thinges which are not conuenient All power of doing is of God whether it be good or euil that is donne For the murtherer could not liue nor lift vp his hand but by the power which he hath of God who also ordereth euen the wickednes of the murtherer to good either for the punishment of him that is slaine or for his reward if he be slaine for the defence of his trueth and in a good cause and euermore turneth it to his glorie Yet is not the malice of the murtherer from God nor the murtherer deliuered from the fault of his wickednes because he doth not intend therein to serue God but his owne crueltie And this is that which Luther doth both saie and meane far from the slaunderous reporte of this malitious cauiller as his owne words do beare witnes The third example of impiety is that Luther teacheth that to fight against the Turke is to resist God him-selfe whereby saie you what a path maketh he to the empire of infidelitie But in truth Luther teacheth not that it is vnlawfull simplie and absolutelie to fight against the Turke but to fight against the Turke vnder the Popes banner The article is better gathered by the Collectors then by you sir defender Praeliari aduersus Turcas c. to make warre against the Turkes is to resist God visiting our iniquities by them And this article I do approoue saith Luther by a double experience of our infelicity The two experiences are these First that all praiers and Counsells of preuailing against the Turkes
〈◊〉 15. articles of heresies which Andreas Zebedeus Preacher of Nion Ioannes Angelus preacher of Burtin both Zuinglians did take vpon them to prooue against Caluine at Berna Caluine being present vpon paine of burning whereupon proceeded the decree of those magistrates in the yeare 1555. April 3. that none of their dominions should communicate with Caluine at Geneua Pontac in anno 1555. The trueth is thatby instigation of that hereticall varlet Bolsec diuerse Preachers neere vnto Geneua quarreled against Caluins doctrine of gods eternall predestination charging him to affirme that god is the author of euil with such like impudent slaun ders whereupon Caluine by license of the Senate of Geneua so purged him-selfe before the Bernates that one Sabastian and Bolsec were banished their dominion And Andrew Zebedey not manie yeares after albeit he were then the most earnest accuser of Caluin in his death bed at Nouidune foure miles from Geneua before the chiefe men of that towne reuoked his errors detested all those his actes against Caluine and commaunded all his papers to be burned in his fight So that whatsoeuer was offered to be prooued nothing was prooued in deede to shew such dissent betweene Caluine and Zuinglius as Master Fulke might not iustlie denie anie dissent betweeneCaluine and Zuinglius in the substance ofChristian religion which was truelie taught by them both notwithstanding any cauills that quarrel-pickers or fault-finders haue deuised against Caluine The sixt section intituled Of the Iesuites doctrine MAster Charke being charged to haue falsified the Iesuites wordes defendeth his reporte by testimony of Donatus Gotuisus out of whose treatise con cerning that matter he professed at the first to rehearse their wordes And that it is lawfull for him to charge them vpon an other mans reporte he bringeth example of the Censurer who reporteth intollerable slaunders of Luther vpon the credit of Lindan Cocleus Hosius This replie the defender thinketh not sufficient because he bringeth three witnesses and Master Charke but one As though three false witnesses were of more credit then one that speaketh the trueth after it is tried and knowne For what Luther affirmeth his owne writinges do declare so that if a thousand Papistes would sweare against him that he hath written otherwise then he did his writinges being open to al mens vew the world might condemne them al of falsehood And if Gotuisus haue reported vntruelie the blame is his and not Master Charkes who citeth his reporte But in the end it shall appeare that Gotuisus hath done the Iesuites no wrong but either in their owne words or in their meaning truelie deliuered the substance of their doctrine howsoeuer they maie cauill to cloake the matter as the defender here compareth Master Charke to a bird taken by the legge for lying and seeking euerie hole to escape The first is that he chargeth the Censurer with foure lies in one sentence this the defender calleth most ridiculous accusations and asketh if men do not pitie the poore minister that stoopeth to so miserable helpes for his reliefe so he laugheth at his lies when he can not iustifie them and turneth the woll matter to a scoffe when he hath not one word to answer for him-selfe he think eth not the matter worthty he defense because the lies are madein no waighty causes And yet a man may iustlie note how looselie he writeth that hath no more regard of trueth the nto rappe out four lies in so short a compas of time and place What wil he do in maters of greater importance I neede not aske for you may see how often he hath beene taken in most impudent and shameles assertions such as maketh me often to thinke that he is no professor of diuinitie which hath anie grounded knowledge him-selfe but some cosening Copesmate chosen out for his impudencie and verbositie to broch such stuffe for vnlearned readers as the note gatherers were ashamed to put forth vnder their owne names But to returne to our starting holes the second saith sit defender is that Master Charke and his fellowes draw all matters against the state as Pasie the madde man dealt with his Master to defend him-selfe when he was neere a shrewd turne for some prankes plaid with his companions and here by name doctor Fulk is charged with this practize and with parasiticall and palpable flatterie who answereth for him-selfe in the treatise often named pag. 44. c. But in trueth Mastet Charke needed not any coards to draw matters against the state out of your writinges for you offer frankelie more then it would be your ease to answer if you durst shew your face And truelie he said that you charge the Magistrates and Bishoppes as if they were careles what doctrine is deliuered to the people when you ask what he and his fellowes dare auouch in their sermons speeches and discourses which they are sure shall neuer come to examination The third hole is by laying all his lies vpon one Gotuisus where his falsehood appeereth in that he did not in all his whole discourse so much as once name or quote his auther Gotuisus either in text or margent MasterCharke answered before that the authors name is quoted in the most bookes so it is to be seene in the margent ouer against those wordes of the text out of a treatise concerning this matter I haue enterlaced their owne wordes as they are to be found in the same booke Where the quotation is Donati Gotuisi lib. de fide Iesu Iesuitarum This being to be read ofeuetie childe in manie hundred copies of what metrall is his face made of that doth so confidentlie denie it because as he saieth beleeue him ifyou list he could neuer happen vpon anie copies that had him quoted And if somehad it he asketh why al had not as though he were ignorant that a fault or an omission escaped in a fewe copies maie be reformed or added in the rest when it is espied The other surmises that follow whie Master Charke should not quote his author Gotuisus are vaine seeing he hath quoted him as also the other charges of treacherie and malitious meaning for so much as there is no proofe of them but his bare word are as easilie denied by vs as they are by him affirmed If in the particulars that follow he be hable to bring anie substantiall matter to confirme anie one of them it maie be considered as the cause shall require and occasion be offered The 7. section entituled Of the nature and difinition of sinne THe first article of the Iesuites doctrine you say is this It is not sinne whatsoeuer is against the worde of God Here you charge Master Charke with guilefull dealing and that you take vpon you to shew by an example of a lawyer that should saie it is not treason whatsoeuer is against the Prince and common wealth which soundeth odiouslie as though nothing committed against the Prince and common wealth were treason
operuerit numquid quia non est ex fide peccatum est prorsus in quantum non ex fide peccatum est non quia per se ipsum factū quod est nudum operire peccatum est sed de tali opere non in domino gloriari solus impius negat esse peccatum If an heathen man saiest thou doe cloath the naked is it sinne because it is not of faith yea out of doubt in as much as it is not of faith it is sinne Not because the deede it selfe which is to cloath the naked is sinne but not to reioyce in the Lord of such a worke none but an vngodlie man will denie to be sinne This and much more to this effect hath Saint Augustine in that place against the Pelagians which with the papists denied that such workes of the infidels were sinne But albeit Saint Augustine be directlie against you yet Saint Ierome you thinke may helpe you in Ezechiell cap. 29. whoe saith thus Caeterùm ex eo quòd Nabuchodonoser mercedem accepit boni operis intelligimus etiam ethnicos si quid boni fecerint non absque mercede Dei iudicio praeteriri But of this that Nabuchodonvser receuied arewarde of good workes we vnderstand that euen the gentiles if they haue done any goood thing are not passed ouer without rewarde by the iudgement of God To this I answere that God rewardeth vertue in the gentiles it prooueth not their morall workes are not sinne in as much as they are not done of faith as S. Augustine at large teacheth in both the bookes and places last cited For those good facts are of the reliques of Gods image not altogether blotted out which God doth reward as his owne worke in them but in as much as they doe not those good deedes well they are sinne in the doers as Saint Augustine saieth and therefore neither Saint Augustine nor Saint Ierome are against Master Charke in this cause The third fault of your definition Master Chark saith is that you restraine sinne onelie to voluntarie action Against which you oppose Saint Augustine in manie quotations where he repeateth these words so often Sinne is an euill so voluntarie as it can be by no meanes sinne except it be voluntarie But what his iudgement was of those wordes appeareth best in his retractations which you quote lib. 1. cap. 13. 15. In the former he saith patest videri falsa haec definitio sed si diligenter discutiaiur inuenieiur esse verissima Peccatum quippe illud intelligendum est quod tantummodo peccatum est non quod est etiam paena peccati c. This difinition maie seeme to be false but if it be diligently discussed it shall be found to be most true For that sinne is to be vnderstood therein which is onelie sinne and not also the punishment of sinne as I haue shewed before when I rehearsed certaine thinges out of my third booke of free will Although euen those sinnes which not vnworthelie are called sinnes not voluntarie because they are committed either by them which know not or which are compelled can not be committed altogether without the will because euen he which sinneth of ignorance sinneth willinglie when he thinketh that to be donne which ought not to be donne And he which doth not those thinges which he will the flesh lusting against the spirit lusteth truelie vnwillinglie and there in doth not what he will but if he be ouercome he consenteth to concupiscence willinglie and therein doth not what he will being free from Iustice and a seruant of sinne And that which in children is called originall sinne when as yet they vse not the free choise of will is not absurdlie called also voluntarie because being drawne from the euill will of the first man it is made as it were comming by inheritance The same in effect he saith C. 15. answering that he had set downe de duabus animabus c. 14. Propterea vera est c. That definition is true for this cause for that that sinne is defined which is onelie sinne and not that sinne which is a punishment of sinne Againe he saith sine voluntate nullum esse petcatum siue in opere siue in origine that there is no sinne without will either in the worke or in the beginning By which sayings Saint Augustines iudgement is plaine that in the particular worke there are sinnes that are not voluntarie as those that come of ignorance or compulsion or as concupiscence original infection yet al these may be called voluntarie in respect of the first mans offence in whome was freedome of will which Master Chark graunteth and therefore that childish insultation needed not but to shew your pride in contempt of others as though al learning had beene bred with you and were like to die if you did not plant it in vs. Saint Augustine therefore is cleere that that sinne which is a punishment of sinne is not voluntarie and that his definition as he calleth it was onelie of sinne which hath none other consideration but as sinne his disputation being against the Manichees which deriued sinne from an euill God and not from the free will of man or deuill first created good by the onelie good God But you haue scripture to prooue euerie act or omission which is sin to be voluntarie because Christ him selfe saith that those things which do defile a man do come from the heart as though nothing might come frō that corruptroote the heart of man which is not voluntarie You your selfe affirm that euil thoughts are not voluntary which he saith come from the heart Mat. 15. 19. Now concerning the obiection of originall sinne there hath beene inough said out of Saint Augustine concer ning the other obiection of manslaughter donne without consent of will which you affirme to be innocencie God defend euerie good Christian from such innocencie At least wise you might haue made such a fact committed by error a voluntarie sinne by the first mans sinne that was of free will which if it had not beene no man should haue erred in that case or anie other But the text you tel vs calleth him an innocent man liberabitur innocens c the innocent shall be deliuered from the hand of the reuenger So great a Rabbin as you would seeme to be by your quotations out of Rabbi Isaac Rabbi Mose and Rabbi Leui should not be ignorant that in the hebrew text the word is harotzeach that is the killer not the innocent which yet is adiudged to escape punishment of death by the politike law because in respect of mans iudgement he hath not offended for which cause also Deut. 19. his blood is called innocent Yet his flying to the citie of refuge and imprisonment there vntill the death of the high priest argueth as Master Charke saith that there is somthing in his fact or the error by which he committed the fact that hath neede of forgiuenes by Christ
scriptum est post concupiscentias tuas non eas sed non perficit quia non implet quod scriptum est Non concupisces He doth much good which doth that which is written goe not after thy lustes but he maketh not his good perfect because he fulfilleth not that which is written Thou shalt not lust These wordes and the wholl Chapter prooueth that Saint Augustine vnderstandeth the tenth commaundement of concupiscence whereunto no consent is added Againe lib. de spir lit cap. vltimo he saith that this commaundement Thou shalt not lust perteineth to the life to come because no man can fulfill it in this life but the other Goe not after thy lustes perteineth to this life because men may restreine by Gods grace consent and delectation in lust Your third quotation is lib. 19. Cont. Faustum cap. 7 where Saint Augustine saith no more for you then in the rest sauing that he saith That for as much as it is hard for vs to fullfill in euerie respect that which is written in the law thou shalt not lust Christ beeing made a prieste by the sacrifice of his flesh obteineth pardon for vs euen so fulfilling the law that by his perfection might be recouered that which by our infirmitie we could not In which saying except you will cauill vpon the terme of difficultie which in other places he maketh a flat impossibilitie there is no shadow for your assertion In your fourth quotation Cont. 2. ep Petil. lib. 3. cap. 7. or in steede of Petil. as I gesse you would saie Pelagianorum is nothing sounding to the matter but rather the contrarie that perfection cannot be in this life because there cannot be perfect iustice or fulfilling of the law Where fore I can but wonder at your impudencie in these quotations And yet as though you had found a great 〈◊〉 you saie it is most worthie of laughter which Master Charke for filling vp of a page discourseth of S. Pauls estate when he saith Paul compareth his estate before his knowledge of the tenth commaundement with his state afterward c. Verelie the Greeke prouerbe hath place in you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. A foole lauheth when there is nothing worthie of laughter You aske how he could be ignorant of that commaundement considering his education yet be able to 〈◊〉 other sinnes by the light of naturall reason But Master Charke saith he knew other sinnes by the law and light of nature He knew also by his bringing vp that it was written in the law thou shalt not lust but he vnderstood it not otherwise then the Pharises did which thought they were able to keepe the law But after he learned what originall sinne and the lust thereof proceeding was he sound himselfe condéned by the tenth commaundement which he could not doe by the other nine from which it is perfectlie distinct nor by the light of reason for the philosophers could neuer atteine to vnderstand that sinne But concupiscence with consent and delectation they could perceiue to be vitious and sinfull So that your sardonicall laughter may be staide and turned to weeping if 〈◊〉 had grace to know that commaundement as Saint Paul had whereof it appeareth you are as ignorant as euerhe was Concerning the similitude of the latine tongue whereof the tongue is onelie an instrumentall cause as it answereth not the effect of originall sinne so being a contention of termes I will not stand vpon it Againe I confesse it is not necessarie that euerie effect of originall sinne should be sinne in the regenerate as hunger sicknes c. but originall sinne is not so the efficient of these as of actuall sinnes for the iustice of God is the good proper and principall next efficient of those punishments sinne is the cause moouing the iustice of God to punish but original sin is the immediat euil material cause of actual sin That the guilt of original sin is taken-away from theregenerate in and by baptisme we do not denie yet remaineth the sin after baptisme though it be not impured as sinne vnto condemnation in the children of God That Christ is called sinne because i. e is a sacrifice to take awaie sinne maie prooue as you saie that something is figuratiuelie called sinne which properlie is no sinne But that concupiscence should as vnproperlie be called sinne you can not prooue because it is a matter and increaser of sinne Your false quotation Rom. 8. where Christ is called sinne you would iustifie by the 3. verse where there is no such matter but that God sent Christ in the similitude of sinfull flesh and of sinne condemned sinne in the flesh But if the text will not serue you send vs to the commentaries which can not alter the text howsoeuer some do compare this place with that of 2. Cor. 5. 21. and other some do take it otherwise Touching the auncient Fathers 〈◊〉 in the Censure to testifie that concupiscence is not sin in the regenerat if consent be not yealed c. you saie he hath passed ouer Cyprian and Pacacius without anie word vnto him The cause is for that they saie nothing to him in the matter controuersed beteweene him and you For Cyprian in both the places sheweth that baptisme by the spirit of God purgeth a man and washeth him cleane from all spots of sinne Which Master Charke confesseth as concerning the guilt because concupiscence though it remaine is not imputed for sinne in the regenerated But the question is what concupiscence of it selfe deserueth 〈◊〉 in the regenerated if it were imputed by Gods iustice as it is forgiuen by his grace Albeit he be not bound to take all that Cyprian writeth for Gospel especiallie in that Sermon de ablutione pedum if it be Cypriant As for Pacianus he saith not all so much If you haue anie wordes in the Fathers that maie enforce your meaning set them downe plainlie and mocke vs no longer with dumme questiones Ambrose and Clemens Alexandrinus as Master Charke telleth you haue not your wordes nor sense for whatsoeuer they saie of the purenes of them that are regenerated we acknowledge with them in respecte of the remission of their sinnes not that the regenerated are voide of al sinne or naturall corruption more then they be voide of infirmitie and mortalitie Where Clemens saith that concupiseence alone is adultrie you labour in vaine to adde consent for the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alone doth exclude what soeuer you can adde vnto it Where you cauill that he exhorteth the Gentiles to resist these motions of concupiscence and would prooue thereby that they are not the first motions which are vnauoidable it is a tale for he exhorteth the Gentiles to Christianitie where they should finde remission of all sinnes and all honnstie oflife Gregorie Nazianzen hath an oration or homilie intituled of holie baptisme but not de S. Iana as your Censure had in the first edition and in that oration he prooueth not your
to be one But whie doe you flie from the authority of your vulgare latine interpreter which in both places maketh the prohibition of concupiscence one commaundement in Exod. by adding the copulatiue which is not in the Hebrew but a pure negatiue Non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis 〈◊〉 eius c. Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours house neither shalt thou desire his wife c. In Deut. by leauing out the verbe which is in the Hebrew Non concupisces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non domum non agrum non seruum non accillam non bouem non asinum vniuersa 〈◊〉 illius sunt Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife not his house not his field not his seruant not his maide not his oxe not his asse and whatsoeuer thinges are his By this translation your interpreter sheweth plainlie that he acknowledged but one commaundement against concupiscence although the sinne were set foorth in diuerse wordes And it is as great reason to make a seuerall commaundement for euerie worde that followeth as to make the concupiscence of the house one and of the wife another But you doe better to acknowledge the matter doubtfull as beeing no matter of faith and not defined by your Church because of the authority of so many aun cient fathers against you yet you haue no colour to shift of your Idolatrous woshipping of Images except you confounde the two first commaundements in one neither can you exclude the commaundement against concupiscence without consent except you deuide the tenth commaundement into two reteining the distinction that ought to be of euerie precept from other and making the law perfect which prohibiteth all sinne as I haue shewed before But it is a greater slaunder I weene that the Protestantes charge you to leaue out the second commaundement against Images where you doe but include it in the first As though you haue not in your English primers other bookes where you set forth the tenne commaundements altogether left out that precept as ten thousand bookes wil testify against you And as for your including is but a crafty hiding of it from the common people lest they should learne to detest your grosie Idolatrie and forsake your malignant Church as the mother of all abhominations against God and his true worship Your distinction of mentall adulterie from actuall adulterie and of mental theft from actual theft to make foure commaundements of two is grosse vnlearned For why should not mental murther mental disobedience or rebellion mentall slaunder or lying require enerie one a seueral commaundement distinct from actual murther actuall rebellion disobedience or treason actuall slaundering or lying And so in the wholl we should haue thirteene commaundements at the least Or els Master Charke hath truelie charged you to make the seuerall breaches of two diuerse commaundements but one sinne and the breach of one commaundement to make two seuerall kindes of sinne as you doe in the breaches of the commaundements against adulterie and theft Where our sauiour Christ saith expresselie that the looking on a woman with desire of lust is adulterie which he should rather haue saide according to your where is forbidden in the seauenth commaundement distinction it is sinne against the ninth commaundement which you saie is against mentall adulterie And so he should haue saide no more in effect but mentall adulterie is mental adulterie But our Sauiour Christ referring that sinne to the commaundement against adulterie sheweth that concupiscence without consent is an other sinne and not onelie in an other degree of the same kinde as mentall and actuall adulterie are and as anger racha thou foole are against the sixt commaundement The last reason of the censure to prooue that the first motions to lust are not forbidden is because they are not in our power where the scripture saith This comaundement which I giue the this daie is not aboue thee Master Chark replieth that the assumption of this argument which is to resist the first motions is not in our power is false You rehearse his wordes thus Our first motions are not altogether out of our power for that the gift of continencie doth more and more subdue them Here you cauill that albeit good men do cut of infinite occasions and causes of motions and temptations yet can they neuer subdue all motions But Master Charke said It is neither true that all these first motions are altogether out of our power c. neither doth it follow that we are not subiect to the lawe for such offences as we can not resist the fault being ours through corruption whie we can not resist them So that in the first part of this saying he confesseth some motions to be out of our power to resist some not out of our power which you also acknowledge and therefore your assumption if it be general is false if it be particuler the conclusion cannot be generall that to resist all the first motions of lustes is not commaunded orthus the law forbiddeth no first motions To the second parte of Master Charkes saying you answer nothing that is of the consequence of your assumption namelie that the fault being ours through corruption and such as our first father did willinglie bring vpon him and vs all our wante of power to resist offences can not exempt vs from the iustice of God This was so strong that you had not so much as a cauil against it But as though you saw it not you runne by into your vsuall path of girding our Ministers who you saie talke of continencie and mortification ech one hauing his yoke mate readie for his turne as good fellows do of fasting that sit at a full table And yet I think it is more praise to keepe temperance at a full table then to abstaine where there is hunger and nothing to eate But I pray you sir doth continencie and mortification belong onelie to vnmarried men You are as good to saie that no maried man can be a true christian seing mortification is necessarie for all Christians and continencie also not from the vndefiled bedde but chastitie from all vncleannes is commaunded generallie to all true members of Christ How the wiueles votaries in poperie performe continencie and mortification but euen of that one earthly member of vncleanes the world is to full of examples and the iustice of god will one daie make manifest To the place of Moses Master Chark saith the translation is false and corrupt which saith the commaundement is not aboue thee where Moses saith it is not hidden from thee And that the place is so to be translated and to be applied to the reuelation of the Gospel it is euidentlie declared by the plaine text and by the application thereofin the epistle to the Romanes cap. 10. 6. To this you answer that he prooueth it neitherby the words of text nor by Saint Pauls application O wretched shift when he quoteth the Chapter and verse where the
peece of Gods worde and traditions are an other peece and this peece must be added to that or els it is not a perfect or sufficient instruction of itselfe for Gods Church The comparison you make of ioyning S. Lukes Gospell to that of Saint Matthew or Saint Paules epistles to them both to resemble your patching of traditions to the written word of God is both odious and vnlike and without begging the wholl matter in question gaineth nothing For the adding of the writings of one Euangelist to another or of an Apostle to the Euangelistes is but the heaping of heauenlie treasure to the further inriching of the Church in all light of spirituall knowledge so the accession of the bookes of the new testament is as it were the vnfolding or laying open of the same diuine riches that was perfectlie contayned in the olde testament for the saluation of all Gods elect that liued vnder that discipline But your traditions as you maintaine them argue an insufficiencie of the holie scriptures which allso you confesse your selfe and are not a more plaine or plentifull application of the mysteries comprehended in them Therefore though you can for manners sake otherwhile forbeare odious speeches aginst the dignitie of holie scriptures yet euen that odious conclusion gathered by Gotuisus must needes follow of your doctrine concerning the insufficiencie of scriptures and the necessitie of traditions That your traditions are Gods word and of equall authoritie with the scriptures you promise to shew more largelie in the twelft article together with certaine meanes how to know and discerne the same Sed haec in dicm minitave Parmeno You haue taken a pretie pause of three yeares long since you were interrupted as you 〈◊〉 in the end by a writte de remouendo But the daie will come that shall paie for all Whether anie cause or matter hath beene ministred by you of odious speeches against the dignitie of holie scriptures Mastet Charke declareth by one example out of Hosius which with all the rest that he saith you omit to answer as trifling speech to litle purpose So whatsoeuer by anie colour of reason you can not auoid by your censorious authoritie you maie contemne and passe ouer But his conclusion seemeth worthie the answer which he maketh in these wordes To conclude it is a great iniquitie to adde traditions or your vnwritten verities to the written word of God whereunto no man maie adde because nothing is wanting from which no man maie take because nothing is superfluous But to him that addeth shall the curses written in the booke be added for euer Against this conclusiō you note in the margent great iniquitie to adde one veritie to another or to beleeue two verities together A fine ieste but a grosse begging of the wholl cause For who shal graunt that your vnwritten vereties be truth and not falsehood falselie by you termed verities vnwritten There is no veritie of matters necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation which is not written in the holie scriptures that are hable to make vs wise vnto saluation But good Lord what a sturre you keepe because M. Chatk noteth in the margent Apoc. 22. ask how this place is alledged against you c. As though that which is true of one booke yea of euery booke of the scripture maie not iustlie be verefied of the wholl bodie and boke of the the Bible Because adding to the word of god argueth imperfection in the word of god Your stale obiection of Saint Iohns Gospell written after the Reuelation is alreadie answered For al bookes of scripture that haue beene written since the fiue bookes of Moses are no addition to the word of God but a more cleere explication of the 〈◊〉 first com mitted to writing by inspiration of God Neither do they teach an other waie of saluation then Moses did but set forth the same more plainlie by demonstration by examples of Gods iustice and his mercie by threatenings by exhortations by explication of his promises by shewing the accomplishment and the manner of perfourmance of them in Christ and his Church And this they do moste absolutelie sufficiently and plentifully to the saluation of Gods people These things saith S. Iohn are written that you should beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing you maie haue euerlasting life in his name Here you maie as well cauill that not onelie the Gospell of Saint Iohn or the miracles written in the same is necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation but all the rest of the scripture also foolishlie opposing thinges that are no waie repugnant but the one including the other For the beleeuing of Saint Iohns Gospell doth not exclude but include all other bookes and partes of holie scripture which teach the same meane of saluation or any thing thereto pertaining But how holdeth this argument saie you no man maie adde to the booke of Apocalips ergo no man maie beleeue a tradition of Christ or his Apostles Maie we not as well saie ergo we maie not beleeue the actes of the Apostles No sir for we make our argument in this man ner No man maie adde to the booke of the Apocalips much lesse may anie man adde to the wholl Bible of the olde and new testament And consequentlie there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles to be credited as needefull to saluation which are not contained in the holy scriptures Thus we alledge scriptures and thus we argue vppon them not as it pleaseth you to deseant vpon our allegations and to dissigure our arguments But it is lamentable you saie to see the 〈◊〉 dealings of these men in matters of such importance It is verie true vnderstanding you and your complices to be the men that vse such fleightes in 〈◊〉 waightie causes As for our doctrine is plaine without any seame that the scriptures are sufficient to saluation therfore al tradition besides them are 〈◊〉 to that purpose But let vs see who 〈◊〉 sleightes by your iudgement First you aske Master Charke what he 〈◊〉 by adding Who doth adde Or in what sense as though his meaning and sense of adding were not manifest as also his accusation that the I suites the Papistes do adde to the word of God their traditions a necessarie to saluation yet not expressed or contained in the word of God But if God saie you left anie doctrine by tradition vnto the Church and our ancetours haue deliuered the same vuto vs especiallie those of the 〈◊〉 Church what shall we do in this case Shall we refuse it It seemeth dangerous and I see no reason The question is not whether we should refuse anie thing that God hath left but whether God hath left anie such tradition to be beleeued vnto salua tion which is not contained in the holie scriptures But if our ancetours of the primitiue Church haue deliuered anie such tradition vnwritten as left by Christ what shall we doe you
cōpetent ministers where the present peril of any mans life forceth thereunto that euen then when they may be beneficiall to other that without schisme cal for the sacraments yet they shal be damnable vnto themselues For hereof let euery man be bold that taketh vpon him any ministery in schisme disorder that so often he hath practized it so often hath he prouoked gods ire towardes him-selfe and procured as much as in him lieth his indignation to all that are partakers thereof S. Basil the great complaineth hereof verie much in his daies by these wordes In the doctrine of impiety wickednes the Churches babes be now brought vp For how can it be otherwise Baptisme is ministred by heretikes they helpe forth such as passe hence they keepe visitation of the sicke they haue comforting of the sorowfull they take on them the ease of such as be burdened in all cases and to be short they minister the mysteries of holy communion so that in time though the libertie of Christes religion be restored againe the youth shall take such liking in heretikes practizes to whome by loue and custome they are so fast knit that it will be hard to reduce them home to truth againe Thus farre spake Saint Basil of his daies and right good cause haue we no lesse to complaine of ours They were then incumbred with Arians and we with a legion of new deuises and bold practisioners of such high and heauenlie functions as neither by God nor man they are rightlie and orderly called vnto By these now onelie our soules seeme to liue but by these alone we suerlie die euerlastinglie In al which great desolation of Christian comfort and all spirituall vnctions this were some solace if either the elder sort could consider what they haue lost or the poore children which are nurced in these nouelities might learne what they lacked ALLEN My meaning is therefore to mooue al parties to the necessarie care and heede of the matter by the treatise following trusting that some one or other of my good brethren whoe all be to me moste deare will awake at my earnest call and consider of the matter deepelie how it fareth with him and other touching their soules since the sacrament of penance hath beene banished and the priesthoede of Gods Church spoyled of iurisdiction and right in remission of sinnes and to helpe him in so necessarie and fruitefull aduise of him-selfe and other whome in such cases I meane alwaies to serue I wil seeke out the ground of this authority that hath beene so long practized of the priest and honoured of the people to the singular glorie of God the notorious increase of vertue weale publike of the whol Christian world that both the good Catholike may haue reasonable proose of that which to his immortall weale he hath so long both loued reuerenced in Christs ministers and also the contemners of so heauenlie power may learne in humblenes of heart to like and feare the excellent function which by pride they did before vnaduisedly disprooue It may please any man that is doubtfull of this article which is so necessarie to be knowne to consider giue good attendance to the wholl course of my talke I promise him as afore god whoe will sharply iudge al sinister endeuours in causes of his honour that I will deale sincerelie in all points and faithfullie I will not couer my selfe nor the light of the cause in cloud of wordes neither by any artificiall sleight as new doctors now a daies often doe circumuent the sense of him that is mosse simple such indifferencie shall be vsed euerie where in trial of the truth that I will seeme for his sake to doubt of the matter my selfe Though in deede so god saue me in my common sense and so god spare me for my sins I cā neuer mistrust any point of that faith in which I was new borne baptized But that notwithstāding I wil not spare to rippe vp that which men moste reprooue in gods Church and ministers that al the disobedient children may see how free they be from falsehood and farre from beguiling the flocke of Christ to them committed to keepe we will call the high magistrates though it be exceeding vnseemelie for subiectes to account of their gouernent the principal pastour must giue a reason of his pardons and answere for the limitation of his indulgences by yeares daies and times both he and all other Bishopes shal be accomptable for such graue censures exercised vpon mens soules with them all inferior priests muste be posed for searching the secrets of our cansciences for releasing mans misaeedes enioyning penaunce and requiring satisfaction for sinnes Thus bold wil we be with truth the rather therebie to deface falsehood And all this in that order that may in least roome conteine most matter with both breuitie and light so much as so deepe and large a cause can beare from all contention I will so farre refraine that euen the aduersaries themselues of Cristes truth and doctrine albeit they be persons infamous by law and consent of al nations shall not yet without meete and reasonable moderation be touched or talked of requiring of them this curtesie againe that they reprehend nothing in this discourse pri uily which they can not nor dare not answere to openlie And of my louing brethren that be Catholike I must farder require one thing the sute is for them selues that when in a manner they sensiblie feele the trueth they would not refuse to follow the same that by outward worke they may declare their inward will Here of I am more carefull for that I see heresie and falsehoode to be of that countenance and colour that it is often liked before it be beleeued where gods trueth for terrour and bitternes that it beareth is not alwaies followed where it is wel knowne trusted But surelie truth is not profitably vnderstood till it be willinglie practized Therefore whoesoeuer acknowledged in his conscience the power of Gods Church and mynisterie for the remission of sins and vseth not humblie con fession of his sinnes that that power may redound to his saluati on he is so much farder from God by how much more he knoweth the right waie to come to God Mans will must in all such cases of terrour and difficultie geue ouer to Gods ordinance whose commaundements though they seeme to the worldlie burdenous yet to the good and ghostlie paucis amantibus saith Saint Augustine they are sweet and exceeding pleasant And this let euerie man assuredlie know that whosoeuer counteth confession so heaiue he neither feeleth the waight of sinne nor yet sufficientlie feareth the appointed paine for the same Al these vntowardlie affections that sinne and the world haue planted in vs all let vt seke by loue and zeale of Gods trueth and ordinance to amend and ioyne with me geucle Reader I besech thee in praiers that our endeuours maie please God and profit his people
of his manhood thus he saith Quòd vnctio sit secundúm humanitatem nemo qui rectè sapere solet dubitabit quia absque omni controuersia minus à maiore benedicitur That the annointing of Christ should be meant of his humanitie no man doubteth that is of anie right vnderstanding For without all controuersie the inferiour and lesse euer receiueth blessing of the superiour and greater There can be no question then but all soueraigntie and supreme iurisdiction which he exercised ouer the Church being his bodie and spouse in that respect that he was either Priest and Bishop of our soules as Saint Peter calleth him or els as he was out head and pastour it is certaine that all this came vnto him by his fathers sending and the vnction of the holie Ghost and the benediction of the holie Trinitie to which he was inferiour accor ding to his manhood FVLKE That our sauiour Christ by his vnction receaued no gift or blessing of God but in respect of his humanitie it is more cleere then it needed to haue beene declared by the testimonies of Hilarius and Cyrillus but that all soueraigntie and supreame inrisdiction which he exercised ouer the Church in respect that he was Priest and Bishop of our soules or as he was our head and Pastor came onelie to his manhoode as Allen maketh it certaine it is vtterlie false and blasphemous against his godheade For vnto all soueraigntie and authoritie he hath full right in respect of his diuinitie and therefore the Apostle Heb. 3. 5. c. saith that Moses was faithfull in Godds house as a seruant but Christ as the sonne ouer his owne house which was builded by himselfe as God which hath made all thinges For what cause Allen speaking of the soueraigntie of Christ ouer his Church vseth the time past saying he was our Priest and Bishop he was our head and pastour it is easie to gesse seeing he laboureth to establish such a soueraigntie and supreme iurisdiction on earth as is derogatorie to the high authoritie of Christ in heauen But the scripture teacheth vs that he is an eternall Priest Heb. 7. 9. c. that he is the shepheard and Bishop of our soules 1. Peter 2. that he is and shall be to the end of the world the heade of his Church Eph. 1 ALLEN If thou doubt of his Priesthood in this case heare Theodoretus Christus autem quód ad humanitatem quidem attinet Sacerdos appellatus est non aliam autem hostiam quám suum corpus obtulit Christ saith he touching his humanitie was called a Priest and he offered no other hoste but his owne bodie But we maie haue more forcible testimonie hereof in Saint Paull him selfe who in sundrie other places that are knowen professeth euerie Bishop to be elected and chosen out among a number of men to offer sacrifice for sinne And that he is made the supreame gouernour head of the Church in his humanitie yea and in respect thereof is appointed to be the high minister of God the father in pardoning or iudgeing the world it is an assured ground of our faith approued not onelie by the consent of all Doctors but also by the Scriptures euerie where protesting that all power in heauen and earth is giuen to Christ in so much that the Apostle calleth him the man in quo viro statuit iudicare orbem tetratum In which or by which appointed man he will iudge the world All these thinges though they maie seeme to the simple to be farre from the matter yet they be both neare our purpose and necessarie to be laied vp in memorie for the further establishing of our faith in the Article proposed and diuerse other profitable pointes of Christian beliefe now impugned FVLKE We doubt not that Christ was a Priest as touching his humanitie as Theodoret saith but we beleeue that he was a Priest as he was the mediator God and man Fot as some ministeriall partes of that office did require that he should be a man áccording to which nature he might be subiect so other parts of the same office required the authoritie of God For none but God hath authoritie to reconcile man and to bring him into the holiest place into the presence and sight of God whereunto he hath full right of his owne nature and dignitie The forcible testimonies that Master Allen citeth out of the Apostle Heb. 5. 9. haue no force to prooue that Christ is not a Priest as he is God and man although they prooue that he is a Priest as he is man But contrariwise if these scriptures be well marked which the Apostle doth alledge out of the second Psalme Thou art my sonne this daie haue I begotten the and out of the 110. psalme thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchiseà ech they will make euident proofe vnto vs that Christ not onelie in respect of his humanitie but also in respect of his deitie is our eternall high Priest as he is our sauiour our mediator our redeemer as in other places the Apostle sheweth more plainlie and I haue argued purposelie and plentifullie against the slaunderous note of the Rhemistes in my confutation of the Papistes quarreils against my writings pag 64. vnto the end whereunto I referre the reader for more full satisfaction That Christ in his humanitie is made the supreame gouernor and head of his Church we do constantlie bleeue but that he hath this excellent authoritie in respect of his humanitie alone and not in respect of his diuinitie we can not acknowledge For in respect of his diuinitie his person is capable of all honour glorie power and authoritie which in the onelie respect of his humanitie it were not That he is appointed to iudge the world also in his humanitie we confesse according to the scriptures but seeing I haue prooued before that to be iudge of the world is proper to the deitie we must needes confesse that the man Iesus Christ is appointed to be iudge of the quick and the dead not onely as an high minister deputed of God in respect of his humanitie but as God him-selfe of supreame authority in respect of his diuinitie For to holde that Christ is no otherwise iudge of the world but as an high minister as kings and Princes are iudges of the earth as high ministers by deputation onelie of Gods authoritie committed to them and not by right of their nature I see not how it can be excused from grosse Nestorianisme The scriptures which protest that all power in heauen and earth is geuen to Christ are to be vnderstood in deede of the exaltation of his humanitie and crowning of his manhood with glorie and maiestie but thereof it followeth not that Christ enioyeth all that power that is giuen to him by the onelie right of his humanitie For except Christ were God as verilie as he is man he were not able to receiue such a gift which no
in expresse wordes absolue many of their sinnes conceiuing in their heartes as it is recorded by Saint Matthew in the historie of the healing of the man that had the palsie that Christ did iniurie to God and committed blaspemie in taking vpon him to remit mans offences whose malitious mindes and cogitations Christ did so reprehend that they might well perceiue by his sight of their inwarde secrets that he was verie God whoe onelie by nature looketh into mans heart and therefore did therebie well insinuate that they could not iustlie reprehend his doings seeing he was God in deede and might as God pardon mans offences Yet that notwithstanding he stoode not with them then vpon the right of his Godhead for the doing of this excellent function which in deede by nature and propertie is onelie perteining to him but he gaue this reason of his doeing that the Sonne of man had power to remit sinnes in earth wherebie me seemeth wherein yet I submit my iudgement to the more learned that he plainlie professed that by power receiued he might in respect of his manhoode and calling forgiue sinners and that in earth as meaning therebie to institute an order and waie how to remit sinnes here in the worlde either by him-selfe or by his ministers at whose sentence past in earth the penitent should be frree by iudgement of God in heauen For so our sauiour two or three times talking of mans ministerie in the remission of 〈◊〉 termeth it loosing in earth and the contrarie binding in earth as also he calleth Gods high sentence in the same cause loosing and binding in heauen Neither doth the interpretation of Saint Hilarie anie whit hinder my meaning whoe vpon that place affirmeth Christ to haue remitted this mans sinnes by the might of his Godheade for it standeth well that one worke should be wrought by the principall cause and yet by the office and ministerie of some secondarie cause appointed by the ordinance of God for the same vse as we see in baptisme to the remission of the childes sinne both the might of God and the ministery of man to concurre at once whereof we shall haue I trust better occasion to speake anon FVLKE It is well that you can make such light account of such as shal obiect against you that it is not lawfull for mā to vsurpe any thing which is proper to god as is the absolute power to forgiue sinnes which none can properlie and absolutelie forgiue but he against whome they be committed Therefore there is a broad difference betweene the power of God and the 〈◊〉 of man in forgiuing of sinnes God doth absolutelie and properlie forgiue sinnes committed against his law and maiestie Man by his appointment doth assure the penitent sinners of his sinnes forgiuen by God and therefore in some phrase of 〈◊〉 is said to forgiue sins as he is said to saue mens soules to whom he preached the saluation by Iesus Christ. The Scribes did rightlie affirme that none could forgiue sinnes but God onelie but they erred in that they did not acknowledge Christ to be God whoe in the person of the mediator euen in that state of humilitie in which he was conuersant vpon earth was no whit abridged of his diuine authoritie but that he might by the same power forgiue sins that he did heale diseases And whereas he saith that the sonne of man had power to forgiue sinnes vpon earth he meaneth not that he had it as meere man but as God and man in one person and that his manhoode was no let vnto him to exercise that power of his Godheade Iohn 3. he saith the sonne of man came downe from heauen and that the sonne of man is in heauen But this is not to be vnderstood of the sonne of man according to his manhood but according to his Godhead as many other such speaches are in the scripture which in respect of the vnitie of the person ascribe to the one nature that which is proper to the other as Act. 20. to feede the Church of God which he hath redeemed with his owne bloode where redemption by his bloode is affirmed of God which is proper and true in respect of Christs humanity Your modestie is commendable that you doe submit your selfe to the iudgement of other in that your conceite of Christes meaning thereby to institute an order c. for the order that he hath instituted and the power that he hath giuen of binding and loosing in earth is els where plainly and purposedlie set forth that we neede not such vnnecessary vnlikelie coniectures to ground it vpon And whereas you affirme that the interpretation of Saint Hilarie doth not any whit hinder your meaning because one worke may be wrought by the principall cause and yet by the office and ministerie of some secundarie I answere the questions is not what may be but what was done in that case whereof Saint Hilaries iudgement is flat against you His words are in Mat. com Canon 8. Mouet Scribas remissum ab homine peccatum Hominem enim tantùm in Iesu Christo confitebantur remissum ab eo quod lex laxare non poteratifides enim 〈◊〉 iustificat deinde murmurationem eorum dominus introspicit dicitque facilè esse filio hominis in terra peccata dimittere Verùm enim nemo potest dimittere pecoata nisi solus Deus ergo quiremittit Deus est quia nemo remittie nisi Deus deus in homine manens curationem homini praestabat nulla ei agendi aut loquendi erat difficultas cui subest totum posse quod loquitur Porro autem vt ipse in corpore positus intelligi possit esse qui animis peccata dimitteret resurrectionem corporibus prestaret ait vt siatis quoniam silius hominis habet potectatem in terra dimittendi peccata c. It mooueth the Scribes that sinne is remitted by a man for they did beholde a man onelie in Iesus Christ and that to be remitted by him which the law could not release For faith alone doth iustifie afterward our Lord looketh into their murmuring and saith that it is easie for the sonne of man on earth to forgiue sinnes But none truelie can forgiue sinnes but God alone therefore he which forgiueth is God be ause no man remitteth but God God abiding in man performed healing to the man and there was no difficultie to him of doing or speaking who hath power so be able to doe all that he speaketh But that he beeing placed in the bodie might be vnderstood to be the same which forgiueth sinnes to mens soules and performeth resurrection to their bodies he saith that you may know that the sonne of man hath power on earth to forgiue sinnes c. Let the reader iudge whether Saint Hilarie doe any whit in these wordes hinder your meaning And yet more plainlie Saint Chrysostome controlleth your meaning and speaketh expresselie and directlie against it in Mat. Hom.
holie ghost was God by whose authoritie and proper power they did alwaies since Christs word was spoken remitte the same The which beeing true as it cannot be false that is so agreeable both to scriptures and to all our fathers faith the heresy of our time must needes directly impugne the vertue and power of Gods owne spirit For as the proofe of mans ministerie in this foresaid function induceth the true and euerlasting Godhead of the holy ghost by whome they practize that power so the denial thereof and robberie of priesthoode of this their moste iust claime doth directlie spoile God of his honour and of the euerlasting right that he hath in remission of sinnes So whiles these goodmen seeke to abase man vniustlie they blaspheme God highlie and together with mans ministerie they bring vnto vtter contempt Gods owne authoritie FVLKE Your deifying of popish priests doth altogether weaken the force of that argument which our fathers vsed against the auncient heretikes to prooue the diuinitie of the holie Ghost For it were an easie matter for Eunomius Macedonius or anie other heretike that was against his godhead to replie that by ministerie of God the holie Ghost might as properlie forgiue sinnes as Priestes do by the ministerie of Christ and of the holie ghost yea so farre forth as thereby they are made halfe Gods yea deified and made Gods in deede But you vtter repugnancie when you saie that by Gods authoritie and proper power Priestes do forgiue sinnes Where you make it not proper to God which is common to others with him Therefore you should speake more properlie to saie that God the holy ghost by his owne authoritie and power proper to the deitie doth forgiue sinnes in their ministery men thereto authorized do no more in proper speach and sense but testifie and declare what God doth for which declaration and testification seeing they are the embassadours and messengers of God vnto the world to declare his pleasure of reconciliation or condemnation they are said to forgiue sinnes or to retaine them which they do not properlie but pronounce the sentence of God concerning the remission or retention of mens sinnes And that this was the meaning of the Auncient fathers concerning the authoritie and power of Gods ministers it is moste manifest by this argument whereby they choke the enuier of the holie ghostes diuinitie from which you cutte of all the sinnewes and force it hath to prooue it when you communicate to men that which is proper to God and aduance men aboue the nature of meere men when you deifie their persons by meanes of the giftes of the holie Ghost giuen to them and make them of abilitie to exercise the proper workes of God As for the deniall and robberie that you ascribe I can not tell to what heretikes of this time we detest as much as ye not seeking to abase man beneath the nature and condition of man norseeking to extoll him by robbing God of his glorie and proper effects to magnifie menne to deifie the persoas of men as you do in plaine termes Whereby it is manifest we are as far from blaspheming god or making mans ministerie contemptible which he exerciseth in the name of God as you are from sobrietie thus to iudge if your meaning be of vs or thus to reason if you would defend the argument of the auncient fathers against the auncient heretikes ALLEN But for the readersease and more light of our cause I ioyne thus in argument with them againe vpon the second part of Christes owne wordes and action had in the authorizing of his Apostles Whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his Godhead that may the Apostles and Priestcs do by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But the holie Ghost properlie and rightlie doth remit sinnes Therefore the Apostles doe rightlie remit sinnes by their ministerie in the said holie Ghost All partes of this conclusion stand vpright and feare no falsehood they be guarded on euerie side by Christes action by wordes of scripture by the Doctors plain warrant and by all reason With all which whosoeuer is not contented but will needes extinguere spiritum extinguish Gods spirit and violentlie take from the Church the greatest comfort of all mans life that in this infirmitie of our flesh standeth in moste hope by his gift in remission of sinnes for which especiall cause the said spirit was mercifullie breathed vpon the Apostles peculiarly before the mare common sending of the same from heauen aboue If all this reason and iust demonstration of trueth will not serue them I will charge them with this graue conclusion of S. Augustine vttered partlie against the Nouatians especallie against the desperate that would not seeke for Gods mercie by the Churches ministerie in the sacrament of penance To be briefe I will speake it in English Whosoeuer he be that beleeueth no mans sinnes to be remitted in Gods Church and therefore despiseth the bountifulnes of God inso mightie a worke if he in that obstinate minde continue til his liues end he is guiltie of sinne against the holie Ghost in which holy ghost Christ remitteth sinnes FVLKE I doe greatlie commend you that you haue such regard of the readers ease and it seemeth you haue good confidence of your cause that you flie not the light of Logicall iudgement by which the trueth shall more plainelie appeere to all sortes of men then by anie discourses at large vnder which many great errors may be often couered vnder sophistical cloudes ambiguity of words which in a briefe syllogisme is soone and easilie espied To answere your argument therefore First I distinguish of your Maior for if you meane by seruice and ministerie the expressing and declaring of the will and pleasure of the holy ghost wherunto they are authorized I acknowledge your Maior proposition to be true whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his godhead that maie the Apostles and Priestes doe by seruice ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But if you meane by seruice and ministerie that the proper power of God is communicated to men I denie your Maior as false and absurde For the Apostles and Priests maie not by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost forgiue sinnes properlie which the holie ghost by proper power of his godhead may doe for this is a proper power not com municable vnto any creature but a declaration of the will of him that hath such power is the ministeriall authoritie by which men forgiue sinnes Secondlie I answere that your conclusion is deceitfull For your Minor Extreame or Assumption is not perfectlie ioyned with your Maior or Proposition in the conclusion For your Minor is that the holie ghost properly rightlie doth remit sinnes So your conclusion should be therefore the Apostles properlie and rightlie doe remit sinnes by their ministerie
of Christ and his spouse the Church which you saie in no sauce we can abide as though wheresoeuer any mysterie is confessed to be there muste needes follow a Sacrament of the new testament ALLEN These fellowes therefore that dare be so bolde to disturbe all the orders and sacramentes of Gods Church and to mainteine their phantasies dare brust the sacred bandes of expresse scriptures in such pointes as doe directlie touch the wholl policie of our Christian common wealth and ordered waics of our saluation euen in those which Christ moste carefullie left to be practized for the vse of his louing slocke by the warrant of wordes moste plaine what shall we saie to such bold and impudent faces that thus dare doe and yet which I more mernaile at in this their vncurtesie and most vnhonest dealing will not sticke to crie and call vpon Gods worde as though they did that by scripture the contrarie whereof they expresslie finde in scripture And truelie where they be not holpen by the verte wordes vaine it shall be for them to stand with vs and with all our Fathers and with the practize of all nations and with the very expresse iudgement of the Church of God it shal not boote them I saie in their darke ignorance infinite pride to stand with vs hauing so many helpes for the true meaning and the expresse text of the worde for our selues and side FVLKE He must needes haue an impudent face and a wicked conscience that so shamefullie slaundereth vs to bereake the sacred bandes of the expresse scriptures wherunto we seeme to attribute al credit as though we denie any one word of expresse scripture do not affirme whatsoeuer the scripture doth affirme in expresse words or denie whatsoeuer the holy scripture in expresse words doth deny according to such sense and meaning as the scripture must haue as it is agreable to it selfe in all places The expresse wordes of scripture touching the Lords supper are these that it is the body blood of Christ we confesse and beleeue as much The expresse wordes of scripture concerning the Apostles authoritie in pardoning or reteining sinnes are as they haue beene often alledged we beleeue they and their successours of whome there is no expresse word haue power to remit or reteine sins The expresse words of scripture concerning the Lords supper are also The rocke was Christ we beleeue that the rocke was Christ. The cup is the new testament we beleeue that the cup is the new testament Also by expresse words to the Apostles there is graunted power to binde and to loose We confesse and beleeue that they haue power to binde and to loose And yet I trust we may be bolde to saie without breaking the sacred bondes of expresse scriptures The rocke was not Christ in nature of his humanitie and diuinitie but a sacrament of Christ. The cup is not the new couenant it selfe but that which is in the cup is an holie signe or seale thereof The Apostles had no power giuen them to binde men with chaines or coardes nor to loose the chaines coards of them that be bound by other but a spirituall authoritie to binde and loose spirituallie In like manner we doe not breake the sacred bandes of expresse scripture when we affirme that the Sacramentall bread and wine are not by transsbustantiation turned into the naturall bodie and bloode of Christ or the bodie and blood of Christ in the sacrament are not corporallie receiued but spirituallie For the contrarie of these we finde not expresselie in the scripture So when we saie the Apostles had not power to remit sinnes properlie which is peculiar onelie to God but to aslure men in Christes name whose embassadours they were of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by Christ we breake no bandes of expresse scriptures For we confesle the wordes according to their true meaning agreeable with other places of scripture that teach it to be peculiar to God to remit sinnes properlie An embassadour is said to make peace or warre when he declareth according to his commission his Princes determination of peace or warre The Kinges Liuetenant hauing such commission offereth or graun teth pardon to rebells or other offenders where he doth onelie declare the kinges pleasure in pardoning or releasing their offences As for the Popish bragge of all our fathers with the practize of all nations and the verie expresse iudgement of the Church of God to be for your assertion how vaine it is will easilie appeare when you come to cite fathers shew forth the practize of all nations declare the iudgement of Gods Church and when the contradictorie shall be manifestlie prooued and brough forth against you ALLEN Sometimes where it may appeare that the wordes and outwarde face of scripture serue not our assertions so plainlie as the holie traditions of Christes Church doe there they call vpon vs with infinite clamours to abide the iudgement of the word which they would be thought to esteeme aboue all mans meaning But whether would they now runne thinke you where all our sacraments stand vpon euident words more then words vpon the verie expresse notorious action of Christ him selfe al instituted sincerelie to be practized of the Church after his de parture hence all commended in knowne termes of greatest moste efficacie that could be not by way of preaching in which he vsed sometimes figures not at such time as he vsed other then common knowne speach but after his resurrection when he now vttered no more parables as he did before that such as faw should not see and such as were of vnderstanding might not vnderstand but did open vnto his dearest their senses that they might vnderstand scriptures and more carefullie expressed his meaning for the instruction of his holie Disciples to the better bearing of that charge which he meant to leaue them in after his departure whither will these men I saie where they see all thinges so enuironed with trueth whither will they flie The scriptures be plainlie ours the Doctors they dare not claime reason is against them there is then no waie to beare it out but with boldnes and exercised audacitie Yet here we wil assay by the notorious euidence of this one cause that we now haue in hand to breake their stonie heartes to the obedience of Christs Church word for whose faith if they haue seene great light force of argument allready shal yet see much more I trust they wil not stil with stand the knowen truth FVLKE We will runne no further for the vnderstanding of Christes wordes concerning the institution and practize of his holie sacramentes although we haue the consent of the moste auncient and approoued doctors of the primitiue Church as witnesses of the same That the sacraments are commended in knowne terms of greatest and most efficacie that could be we cofesse but therof it followeth not that they were not in some part commended by figuratiue speeches
to the proper power of God touching the release of the guiltinesse of sinnes although in executing of discipline they maie pardon the exercise of repentance that is appointed for triall of the parties true penitencie or some part thereof which as it is enioyned by the iudgement and discretion of men so they may by the same release it as vpon good cause they thinke conuenient Where you say that Priestes may pardon or retaine mans sinnes of al sortes as wel in the sarcrament of penance al that be confessed as in publike iudgement You thrust in diuerse matters whereof there is neither mention in the text nor anie necessarie collection to be made of them out of it as the sacrament of pennance whereof there is no outward element or signe instituted then your kinde of penance which includeth some peece of satisfaction for sinnes last of all your auricular and particuler confession as though genetall confession and acknowledging of mens sinnes before God might not obtaine remission of sinnes in his sight And as though if anie sinne be not remembred in shrift the priestes remission extendeth not vnto it or if it were remembred and be hypocriticallie concealed yet the remission were good auaileable for al other sinnes that are confessed Againe it is an insolent power you giue them in open Iudgement that they may at their pleasure where Iustice requireth correct the open offender For though you seeme to qualifie their pleasure by iustice yet to ascribe that to their pleasure which is laid vpon them of necessitie what warrant haue you for it For if they maie at their pleasure they neede not except it please them Finallie your argument holdeth not that as in exercising of discipline they maie chastice the offender by the censures of the Church so they may giue due punishment for sinnes 〈◊〉 in shrift Neither are those two endes you alledge true For the chastisement of sinnes pertaineth not to them but to God and the ciuill Magistrate and the iustice of God violated by sinne is satisfied by the obedience and suffering of our sauiour Christ. Wherebie also it should follow that the power of remitting of sinnes were made void and frustrate if men must endure due punishment which you call penance for the satisfying of Gods iustice by sinne violated AILEN The other text of holie scripture containing Christes wordes to Saint Peter seuerallie by certaine notable circumstances of the letter and by wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him giueth the chiefe of all his Apostles in more ample termes and beneficiall clauses this power and perogatiue also To him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock for our Master gaue him that name new at his first calling in signification of further intent and purpose which he here vttered and vpon this rocke will I set my Church and hell gates shall not preuaile against it That so said he thus spake in plaine termes Et tibi dabo claues regni caelorum Et quodcunque ligaueris super terram erit ligatum in caelis quodcunque solueris super terram erit solutum in caelis And to thee wil I giue the Keies of the Kingdome of heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth it shall be bound in the heauens And what thou loosest in earth it shall be loosed in the heauens This promis made vnto Peter and performed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding and gouernement of all his deare flock both yong and olde doth exceedinglie import a wonderfull incomparable soueraigntie and-iurisdiction ouer mens soules For a mortall man to receiue the keies of Christes Kingdome and by them to binde loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had the full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of And when the holie Prophets do meane to set out the great and passing power giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne in earth they vse to expresse the same often by the termes of keyes as when the Prophet Esaie saith I will laie the keies of the house of Dauid vpon his shoulder he shall shut and there can none be hable to open and he shall open so that none can shut agiane And Christ him-selfe speaking to his beloued Iohn in the Apocalips saith I am the first and the last I am aliue and was dead before and I haue the keies of death and hell The keies therefore euer signifying power andgouernment of the houshold was giuen to Christ as to whom being the principal and most excellent rectour of his owne Church that he bought so dearelie they moste duelie belong But he communicated vnto Peter as to his speciall stewarde the vse of the same for the gouernment of our soules with exceeding much preheminence both in binding and loosing Yet I do not remember that anie of the olde writers do put anie great difference betwixt the authorities of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sinnes which is a thing perteining indifferentlie to the wholl order of priesthood and therfore no more proper to the Pope or Peter then to Priestes and Apostles though Origen noted well that the iurisdiction of Peter seemed by these words to be enlarged aboue the residue by that our sauiour said to him that whatsoeuer he bound or loosed in earth it should be loosed or bound in the heauens where to the rest he spoke of heauen onelie in the singular number I speake onelie of this latter clause of binding and loosing with the keies thereunto belonging For there is no doubt but great preheminence of rule and iurisdiction is promised before in the sametext now recited and els where actuallie giuen vnto him more then to the rest of his breethren Neuerthelesse euen this power of binding and loosing common to all the holie order was in him first seuerally planted for the commendation of vnitie and order as Saint Cyprian sath and so the same authoritie giuen to other might yet after a sort be deriued from his fullnes of power and perogatiue as from a fountaine FVLKE The other text of scripture containing the wordes of our sauiour Christ to Peter seuerallie giueth to him as you saie this power and prerogatiue also As for the not able circumstances of the letter the wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him the more ample tearmes and beneficiall clauses let vs examine what they are and whether they be of force to make him chiefe of all his Apostles First to him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock what then ergo he was chiefe of all the Apostles who is so madd to gtaunt the consequence To the sonnes of Zebede onelie it was said that they were Bonarges that is the Children of thunder ergo they had greater authoritie then the rest of the Apostles But of all the Apostles it was said
Christ gaue them the holie Ghost But Caluinsaith notso but that authoritie to remit sinnes is graunted to be exercised by preaching both priuatelie and publikelie that is to assure men that God doth remit their sinnes and that the giftes of the holie Ghost were graunted to the Apostles that they might be inabled to exercise that high office and function which giftes no man hath power to giue but onelie God neither doth anie man at this daie receiue them in such plentifull measure but that he maie erre of whomesoeuer he be ordeined or sent to preach Neither doth Caluin require that power of not erring but onelie in them that arrogate vnto them-selues an absolute power to remit sinnes as properlie as the holy Ghost doth forgiue them who we knowe cannot erre in binding him that is to be loosed or loosinge him that is to be bounde as popishe pristes doe which yet presumptucusly and blasphe mouslie arrogate vnto them-selues such power and authoritie That it standeth well with Gods houour that mortall men should ren it sinnes and that Nouatus the heretike was of olde condemned for denying the same and that he was the father of this heresy which denyeth the Priests authoritie THE SEVENTH CHAP. ALLEN Now by all our former discourse the right of remission of sinnes sufficiently prooued to pertain to priesthood some will perhaps count it vaine labour to make more declaration of that which is so plaine or further to establish that by reason which standeth so fast on scriptures But if anie so thinke they see net the wyde waies of heresie nor the manifolde shifies that she attempteth euen there where shee maie seeme to be fullie beaten The simple and the sinfullstand moste in her danger that can not in their lack of intelligence compare reason to reason nor gather one trueth of an other and therefore to their mouthes we must chew all meates verie small els there could be no great need of their further information how this claime of remission of sinnes or the vsisall practize thereof could stand with Gods glorie For being answerable to his ordinance it can not but be agreeable with his honour But because in desperate cases our aduersaries haue taught their fellows there to wrangle vncurteouslie where they can not mantaine reason pithelie I will not onelie serue my cause but sometimes pursue their follie though I doubt not but the wisdome of God shal more and more appeare touch ing his meaning in our matter not alonelie by our defence but a great deale the rather by their discontentation Now therefore intending to declare that this preheminence of priesthood doth nothing abase or derogate to Gods aignitie I think it not amisse to match our new doctours of whome I heare often this complaint with other their forefathers that at once both trueth maie fullie be serued and a yoke of aduersaries ioyntlie drawing against the Church and our saluation may be almost with one breath refuted Our yong masters may be glad to grow so high in gods Church as to be reprooued with them who were condemned thirteene hundreth yeares since and though they be so modest that lightlie they list not crack of their auncestours yet we will not defraud them of that glorie nor healpe our cause by dissimulation of their great antiquitie It is their pusillanimitie I know that they will not often in distresse of their doctrine call for aid of their forefathers who were doubtlesse verie auncient and manie of them within the first six hundred yeares In other causes Vigilantius might healpe in some Iouinian would attend vpon them Manes might do them often high pleasure Iulianus the apostata a prince for their purpose Simon Magus one of the Apostles age would stand by them surelie if our aduersaries had 〈◊〉 they would well neere winne of vs by antiquitie And truelie I can not dissemble with them in this cause that now is in hand they haue one patron against vs of yeares very auncient and of reason much much like vnto themselues Nouatus is his name of whome the followers were called of the Church Nouatians but them-selues liked to be called Cathari that is to saie cleane and vndefiled persons Their opinion was that such as did fall into anie mortall sinne after Baptisme could not by anie man or meanes be assoiled thereof and for that they dissalowed the Churches wholl practize of mercie and remission of sinnes in the sacrament of penance nothing dissagreeing from Caluin that condemneth the saying of Saint Ierome as sacrilegious where he writeth that penance is as a second beord of refuge whereby after shipwrack a man may be saued Neither did Nouatus denie but himselfe might haue mercie and giue pardon after mansfall but the Church could not therein meadle as he thought without singular iniurie to Christ and his onelie prerogatiue And that he ioyneth in this matter fullie with our men that they maie take more comfort on him you shall perceiue by Socrates one of the writers of the Tripartit historie who saith thus Nouatus scribebat Ecclesus ne eos qui Daemonibus immolauerant ad sacramenta susciperent sed inuitarent quidem ad poenitentiam remissionem verò Dei relinquerent potestati cuius solius est peccata remittere Nouatus wrote his letters to diuerse Churches that they should not admitte anie man to the Sacramentes that had sacrificed to Diuelles but that they should onelie mooue them to doe Pennance and committe to God the remission of their sinne who onelie can forgiue mans offences And therefore though in some other point Nouatus did ouerpricke his children yet herein they fullie meet in one Epiphanius writeth that he denied saluation to those that did fal to greeuous crimes after their Christendome and therewith did holde that there was but one penance which was done in baptisme after that the Church to haue none How hansomelie he defended this error and vnmercifull heresie ye shall see anone by Saint Ambrose who learnedlie followed and chased him or his followers in an wholl worke written for that purpose In the meane time it were good for the more credit of the man and his cause to note with the auncient Doctors of his daies his conditions his comming vp his proceeding and practizes S. Cyprian who was most molested with him knew him best geueth him this praise Nouatus was a man that delighted much in nouelties and newes of insatiable auarice a furious rauin with pride and intollerable arrogancie almoste puffed past him selfe knowen and taken of all Bishoppes for a naughtie packe condemned by the common iudgement of all good Priestes for a faithlesse heretike curious and inquisitiue them to betraie for to deceiue alwaies readie to flatter in loue neuer faithfull nor trustie a match euer fired to kindle sedition a whirle winde and storme to procure the shipwrake of faith and to be short an aduersarie to tranquilitie and an enimie of peace These were his conditions then FVLKE In the latter
tyrannical while you inforce men to confesse their secret sinnes to a popish Priest where of there is no commaundement in the holie scriptures and partlie it is an encouragement vnto securitie a pampering in sinne while the fraile and foolish man is persuaded that by the heard confession absolution receiued of the Priest he is cleerelie discharged of his sinnes and may be toti es quoties with a litle pretie penance enioyned him for satisfaction But it is a firme principle you saie that in all formes of penance the penitent had remission of his sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes A heauie case where the Priestes were straight laced and would retaine sinnes where God was readie to forgiue What is this els but to restraine the mercie of God to the ministerie of vnskilfull men At what howre so euer the sinner doth truelie repent the Lord remitteth his sinnes But man can not allwaies see or by outward tokens iudge of true and inward repentance Therefore it is a firme principle that God often times forgaue sinnes to the penitent otherwise then by the ministerie of the Prieste Men maie erre in exercising outward discipline but Gods remission is not staied vpon mans error Where you conclude that as the diuerse vse of baptisme hindreth not but that in substance it is the same so the sacrament of penance notwithstanding the diuers formes and manners in which it hath or is now vsed Your comparison is nought For baptisme is a sacrament of Christes institution your popish penance can neuer be prooued to be a sacrament Therfore your argument à paribus is of no force Whether the Church did well to restraine baptisme to certaine solemne feastes I will not here dispute That remission of sinnes hath beene ioyned often both in the law of nature and Moses to some externall ceremonies and sacrifices whereof in the olde law Priestes were appointed ministers THE NINTH CHAP. LEt no man vpon consideration of these thinges either reprehend or maruatle at the counsel and ordinance of god that he being hable to gouerne his creatures and amend or correct pardon or punish euerie mans misdeedes by him-selfe without all helpe and seruice of anie other his subiect natures that it pleaseth his wisdome for all that to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministerie in sundrie sacramentes In sober consideration of these thinges mans reason maie well be satisfied if he can conceiue that it is the honour and estimation of our kinde with almightie God our maker that he gouerneth not our affaires onelie by him selfe in his owne person but also that we be ruled and led in the waies of Gods will by one an other that the maiestie of God which most appeareth in regiment and in remitting of sinnes in correcting of 〈◊〉 and iudgement might be cleerelie seene in our kinde amongst our selues to our comfort and Gods no disgracing nor dishonour at all And therefore Saint Augustine saith of the like doubt of some in his daies which would not be taught by man but by Gods owne spirit Abiecta esset humana conditio si per homines hominibus verbum suum Deus ministrare nolle videretur Quomodo enim verum esset quod dictum est Templum enim Dei sanctum est quod estis vos si de humano templo Deus responsa non redderet Mans state were too base if God would not that his word should be ministred by one man to another For how should this truelie be spoken the temple of God is holie the which temple you are if God gaue not answers by mans temple This is one great respect surelie especialle since the second person in Trinitie tooke vpon him our nature by whome the woorthines of mankinde is much increased and more fit then euer before to serue ech other as in the workes that be diuine and properlie by nature belonging to God himselfe An other respect why we should by externall sacraments and mans ministerie receiue grace and remission of sinnes is the singular respect had by God of our infirmitie as well of minde as bodie For the minde requireth in her assured deseruing of damnation some externall token by which she maie haue good cause to hope of mercie and grace For where I know and assure myselfe that originall sinne is remitted by baptisme when I haue once receiued the same then I am in no further doubt of my selfe nor anie damnation for that sinne which by the promis of God I haue learned shall be washed awaie thereby as by an externall instrument in which he conueigheth that benefit to my soule if my soule by indisposition and unaptnes do not hinder the assured fruit thereof So where after Baptisme mans life is often defiled by greeuons sinnes and God highlie displeased therefore what an infinite treaskre it is and how great a comfort to haue an assured helpe therof wrought so by mans ministery in a visible action that I maie know sauing for mine owne lack of connenient disposition my sinnes to be forgiuen and Gods mercie and fauour to be obteined againe We maie conceiue easily what a passing comfort it was to the parties that heard sensiblie by the outward wordes of Christes owne mouth thy sinnes be forgiuen thee The said persons beleeuing in Christ and lamenting for their sinnes past might haue had some hope of remission by Christ though he had said no such thing vnto them yet he that perceiueth not what comfort of conscience what inward ioy of minde what reioysing of the spirit they must needes haue that had Christes testimonie and blessing in plaine termes for the same purpose he seeth nothing at all FVLKE That God hath vsed in all ages to testifie and assure men of his grace and mercie to the forgiuenes of their sinnes by outward signes and sacraments and that for diuerse good causes we are allwaies readie to acknowledge But that it pleaseth his wisdome as you saie to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministery in sundry sacraments we do vtterlie denie For that were to tie the grace of God to the outward sacraments which is most free to worke either with them or without them The penitent publicane an example of persons that seeke iustification had his sinnes forgiuen him by the onelie grace and mercie of God taken holde of by faith without al external orders ioyned to mans ministerie in any sacrament For if we acknowledge our sins he is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes And Iesus Christ is our aduocate with the father to obtaine remission of sinnes And if anie man shal see his brother sinne a sinne not to death he shall ask he will giue life vnto him that sinneth not vnto death By all which testimonies and an hundreth more that are euery where to
they are not crowned if they be not didicated But if they be washed in their own blood this mans will pietie also hath washed him Againe he saith speaking in an Apostrophe to him Quis dabit tefrater fratrem mihi lactentem vbera matris meae hoc est non quicunque te sed Christus illuminabit gratia spirituali ille te baptizauit quia humana tibi officia defuerunt Who shall giue thee brother to be my brother sucking the papes of my mother that is not euerie one but Christ him selfe shall lighten thee with spirituall grace He hath baptized thee because the seruice of man was wanting to thee By all which wordes it is manifest that S. Ambrose vnderstood not those wordes of our sauiour Christ of externall baptisme as you doe when he refuseth not them that haue a purpose and will to be baptized and are preuented by necessity of time But where you proceed and dare be bolde to saie that neuer man was saued that either contemned or neglected confession if you meane popish auricular and as you after call it sacramentall confession I dare be bolde to saie you speake vntrulie because the word of God prescribeth no such confession as necessarie to saluation Confession of that we beleeue and of our sins before God I knowe to be necessarie to saluation Neither can you prooue that they which dispise popish shrift be contemners of Gods ordinance for the Minor of your syllogisme that followeth is a lowd lie that your popish sacrament of penance and confession made to the Priest is the appointed meanes that God vseth in his Church for remission of mortall sinnes for God hath appointed no such sacrament or confession as necessarie meanes without the which remission of sinnes may not be obtained Your similitude of baptisme will prooue nothing except you can first prooue your confession to be of Gods institution as necessarie for doing awaie sinnes committed after baptisme as baptisme is by Christs ordinance the seale of regeneration by which we are assured of the remissiō of our sins ALLEN And yet me thinke I heare alreadie the sounde of the deceitfull voices of our Preachers It is Christes bloode that remitteth sinnes Come to me all ye that are heauie loaden and I shall refresh you I am he saith the Lord that putteth awaie thy sinnes with a thousand such like as though Christes bloode did not stand with Christes ordinances and sacraments as though they came not to Christ that keepe the waie of his will and sacraments to come vnto him as though God did not remit those sinnes which in his name and in his sacraments and by his appointed minister be remitted Protestant saie plainlie will thou refuse baptisme because Christes bloode washeth awaie originall sinnes If thou darest not openlie so preach although couertly thou maie chaunce so intend how darest thou deceiue the people and draw them from penance and confession because Christes blood doth remit sinnes For if the one sacrament may stand with the honour of God and with all those places that thou bringest so deceitfullie out of the scripture why may not the other seeing both are prooued alike to be instituted of Christ For the same selfe sauiour which said Come to me ye that be loaden and I shall refresh you he and no other said except you be borne of water and the holie Ghost you cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen The same God that said I am he that putteth awaie thy sinnes saith now to the Apostles and Priestss whose sinnes you doe forgiue forgiuen be they The same Spirit of God that said in the Prophet Confesse your selues to the Lorde for he his good said now againe in the Apostle confesse your sinnes one to another that you maie be saued By which he meaneth not as Origen venerable Bede and other doe declare so much brotherly acknowledging sor counsellor other causes the greefe of minde ech man to his fellowe as he doth the order of sacramentall confession to be made vnto gods Priests as it may well appeere by the circumstance of the letter For there he had willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to annoile them streight after addeth this alledged text of confession and praing ouer the sicke The which place the heretikes sawe to sounde so manie waies as well towardes the sacrament of extreame vnction as the sacrament of confession both which they haue vnworthilie abandoned that they thought it not amisse either to denie the Apostles authoritie and the wholl epistle as no peece of holie scripture as Luther and other did or else which was after thought more handsome conueiance to corrupt the text and write instead of send for the Priestes of the Church thus call the elders of the congregation For they thought it might sounde euill to haue in one sentence priestes Church confession remission of sinnes release of paines for sinne annoiling praying ouer the sicke and so forth FVLKE It is no deceitfull voice of our preachers to affirme by these and a thousand such like textes of scripture that it belongeth to God onelie to forgiue sins properlie satisfaction being made for them by the bloode of Christ. And yet we derogat nothing from Christes ordinances and sacraments by which he worketh effectuall assurance of the same We acknowledge the ministerie of the Apostles and their lawful successours for the remission and retaining of sinnes both by preaching and by ministering of the sacraments instituted by our sauiour Christ. But we denie and dare stand to the deniall with all the papists that hath beene are or shal be that popish penance and confession is anie sacrament of our sauiour Christes institution for he that said whose sinnes you forgiue forgiuen be they hath not said whosoeuer will haue his sinnes forgiuen by you must haue some penance by you inioyned for satisfaction of Gods iustice yea there is nothing more contrarie to forgiuenes then satisfaction made by the partie to whome sinnes should be forgiuen And he that said confesse your offences one to another and praie one for an other that you maie be healed saith no where confesse all your sinnes vnto a Priest that you may be saued but willeth a mutuall acknoledgeing and reconciliation of one Christian man to another where there hath bin anie trespasse of such offences as one man hath committed against another and a mutuall acknowledging of our sinfullnes one to another that we may be sturred vp to mutuall praier By which textre the Priest is asmuch bounde to shriue himselfe to his parishioner as the parishioner to the Priest But Origen and Bede are alledged to prooue that the Apostle meaneth not onlie of such acknowledgeing nor so much thereof as the order of sacramental confession Verilie when the wordes of the scripture are plaine the sense 〈◊〉 to be gathered of the plaine words we may not restin anie mans opinion that is contrary to the same The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
scelus suum faucibus contagia funesta 〈◊〉 Dominicorpus inuadunt c. Almoste yet belching out the deadly meates of their Idoles the iawes as yet breathing out their owne wickednes sauoring of the deadelie infection they set vpon our Lordes bodie And immediately before the wordes by you cited Plus modò in dominum manib atque ore delinquunt quà m cum Dominum negauerant They doe more offende now against the Lord with their hands and their mouth then at such time as they denied the Lorde These wordes declare of what kinde of men of what kinde of sinnes of what kinde of confession and of what kinde of satisfaction this Doctor doth speake whose vehemencie tendeth to the maintenance of discipline being in great daunger of decaie by the vntimelie and vngodlie lenitie of some flattering Church men in those daies that would reconcile such vnto the Church by admitting them to the communion which after their moste greeuous fall and deniall of Christ before men had not giuen sufficient tokens and testimonies of their hearty repentance before God without the which the wrath of God iustly kindled against them for their henious offences couldnot be appeased Hetherto therefore for the necessitie of auricular confession we haue seene nothing that anie learned protestant might voutchsafe of anie answere as for the scriptures giuing the Priest so plaine power as wel of binding and retaining as of loosing and remitting doe laie no necessity vpon anie man to confesse vnto them the particularities of his secret faultes nor giue any authoritie vnto the priestes to exact the same I saie not by expresse wordes but not by any necessary illation or conclusion out of the expresse words of the scripture which we holde to be of as great credit as that which is contained in expresse wordes As for the vniforme consent of all ages and the mosie notable persons in the same whereof you make your cómon vaunt can neuer be shewed for the necessitie of auricular shrift no nor for anie other point of poperie though you would make choise of the eldest error that you holde That you take the Churches practize in al ages to be the moste surest way to touch and trie truth by you declare what reuerent opinion you haue of the word of God which our Sauiour Christ saith is the truth wherin he praieth his father to sanctifie al his disciples vnto the worldes end Vnto which rule of truth al practize of mé must be exacted and by it be tried For what mad blasphemie were it to saie that the word of God which was before all practize the onelie trueth of touch hath now lost his credit or the best part thereof if practize of men in all ages be now become the most surest waie to trie and touch trueth by as if the manners of men were alwaies the best interpretation of the lawe That confession hath euer beene vsed of all mortall sins in all countries and ages since Christes time it is prooued by the witnes of moste learned fathers with an answer to such things as out of the Fathers be sometimes obiected to the contrarie THE 11. CHAP. ALLEN I Am the longer in this approoued trueth because I remember what Saint Chrysostome saith And I see by these daies that it is verie true which he writeth Multa arie opus esse vt qui laborant Christiani vltrò sibi 〈◊〉 persuadeant sacerdotum curationibus sese submittere That it is a point of high wisdome and cunning to bring to passe that Christian men which are sicke in soule would persuade themselues to submit in all causes them selues to the priests curing For indeede in Nectarius his predecessours daies there was such an offence arose in the simple sorte and such a tragedie in Constantinople Church by the naughtie fact of a deaton there that their Bishoppe was glad to make the state of penance which then was often published euen for priuat sinnes to be a great deale more free then before Whereupon the people tooke occasion of such libertie and licentious life that when their common Penitenciarie by the commaundement of Nectarius was remóoued they were exceeding loath to confesse or doe iust penance for their sinnes actuall Though that good man condescending to the peoples weaknes meant neuer to take awaie that wholl order wherein he had no authoritie because it is no politike prouision but Christes institution but onely that the penance should not be publike except the party listed of those sinnes which were to the said Penitentiarie confessed in secret Which fact of his though perchaunce it was necessarie for that time yet was not allowed of the writers of the same Historie As a thing saith Sozomenus that brought much dissolute life and alteration of the peoples manners into the Church Yet our aduersaries are in such aistresse for their maintenance of their contrarie assertion against holie confession that they be not ashamed to alledge this mans doubtfull example Which if it were good and to be followed yet made it nothing against shrift which they cal now auricular confession or if it did make against the whole Sacrament euerie waie ministered yet it could not of reason be followed being but one bishoppes compelled act and that disalowed euen of the reporters them selues and prooued to be euill by the practize of all Churches christened to the contrarie FVLKE Chrysostomes wordes by you translated if you had not falsifyed in translation by adding of your owne these wordes in all causes which are neither in the originall Greeke nor in the latine version make but a small shew for the necessitie of the auriculer confession For in that place Chrysostome sheweth how much more difficult the office of a spirituall shepard is then the charge of a bodely herdman by this that the shepperd of vnresonable sheepe may both see the diseases of his cattell and also compell them to take his medicines and diet but the spirituall shepheard cannot alwaies see with what diseases his flocke are infected neither can he compell them but must exhort them willinglie to submit them selues to his cure whereby he meaneth his doctrine of admonition reprehension and such like But because you make mention of a storie and doe not expresse it and yet excuse Chrysostome thereby in any thing that he hath written sounding against the necessitie of confessing before men of sinnes committed in secret as though he durst not fullie set downe his iudgement thereof before the peo ple. I will set forth the storie as it is reported by the Ecclesiasticall writers Socrates and Sozomenus Socrates L. 5. C. 19. writeth thus About the same time it was thought good to take awaie those elders or priests of the Churches which were appointed ouer publike repentance vpon such cause Since the time that the Nouatians were deuided from the Church for that they would not communicate with them that had fallen in the persecution that was vnder Decius the Bishops of the
Church added vnto the Ecclesiastical canon or rule a certeine priest or elder which should be ouer them that repented that they which were fallen after baptisme should confesse their sinnes before this appointed priest And this rule holdeth still vnto this time in other sects Onelie they that holde Christ to be of the same substance with his father and the Nouatians which agree with thē in this faith haue reiected this priest appointed ouer them that repent The Nouatians in deede at the first receiued not this additiō But they which now hold the Churches hauing obserued it for a long time vnder Nectarius haue changed it by occasion of this matter that happened in the Church A certeine noble woman came to the priest appointed for repentance and made particular confession of those sinnes she had committed after baptisme the priest charged this woman to fast and praie cominuallie that with her confession she might shew forth the worke that was meete for repentance But the woman proceeding accused her selfe of another offence for she declared that a certaine Deacon of the Church had line with her This being declared caused the Deacon to be cast out of the Church but a tumult was raised among the priests for they were sore greeued not onelie with that which was done but also because this fact tended greatlie to the slaunder and contumelie of the Church So while cleargie men were in great reproch for these thinges a certaine blessed elder of the Church borne at Alexandria gaue in councell to the Bishop Nectarius to take awaie this priest that was appointed ouer repentance and to permit euerie man according to his owne conscience to be partaker of the mysteries For by that meanes onelie he should haue the Church voide of slaunder These thinges because I heard my selfe of that blessed man I was 〈◊〉 to commit vnto this writing For as I haue often said I haue giuen all diligence to learne of euerie man that knew these matters and exactlie to search them out that I might write nothing beside the truth But I saied vnto Eudemon or that blessed man your counsell Sir hath brought into the Church God knoweth what or no. But I see that you haue giuen occasion that one should not reprehend an others sinnes nor to obserue that precept of the Apostle which saieth Communicate not with the vnfruitfull workes of darkenes but rather reprooue them But of these matters sufficient Sozomenus Lib. 7. Cap. 16. reporteth the matter after this manner About this time Nectarius which gouerned the Church of Constantinople was the first that would no longer permit that priest which was appointed for them that repented And him followed al most al other Bishops Now this matter what it is or whence it began or for what cause it ceased diuerse men report diuerselie I will declare what I thinke For seeing not to sinne at all it is a matter more diuine then agreeable to mans nature and that God hath commaunded to graunt pardon to them that repent although they offend often times and in refusing to confesse sinnes the debt groweth more burthenous as it is like it was thought good among the priestes of olde time that as it were in an open theater vnder the witnesse of the multitude of the Church men should declare their sinnes And for this purpose they appointed a priest or elder of the best conuersation continent of speach wise to whome they came which had sinned and confessed such things as they had committed in their life And he according to euerie mans sin after he had appointed a mulct what he ought to doe or to abide absolued them when they had performed their penaltie by themselues But as for the Nouatians which made no account of repentance needed not this matter But in other sects of heretikes it is obserued euen vntill this time And it is diligintlie obserued in the westerne Churches and especiallie in the Church of the Romans For there is a certein open place appointed for them that are in exercise of repentance For they stand with heauie cheere and as it were sorowing And when the seruice of God is ended being not made partakers of those things that are lawfull for the holie ones with weeping lamentation they cast themselues downe flat vpon the earth the Bishop beholding them runneth to them weeping and likewise falling vpon the earth the wholl multitude of the Church is then filled with mourning and weeping Then first the Bishop riseth vp and lifteth vp the sinners that lie on the ground after he hath praied as it is meetes for the penitents that haue sinned he dismisseth them Then euerie one of them willinglie afflicting himselfe either with fastings or abstinēce from washings or certein meats or with other things that are enioyned thē cōtinueth a seaso so long as the Bishop hath appointed vnto him And at the time appointed after he hath payed as it were a certaine debt he is released of the punishment of fin and com meth into the congregation with the rest of the people These things the priests of Rome obserue euen vntill our daies But in the Church of Constantinople the priest or elder that was appointed ouer the penitent did exercise that office vntill ā certein noble woman being appointed by the priests to fast and pray to God for those sinnes which she had declared while she continued in the Church for this purpose confessed that shee had committed fornication with a Deacon whereof the multitude hauiug vnderstanding was sore greeued for defiling the Church and it was an exceeding great slaunder vnto the whol cleargie Nectarius beeing in doubt how to handle this matter that had happened first depriueth the fornicator of his ministerie And beeing counselled by certein men to permit euerie man as his conscience serued him and as he might be bolde to cōmunicate the mysteries he caused the priest to giue ouer that was appointed for repentance and from that time this custome taking holde hath hetherto continued Now I thinke the auncient grauitie and precisenes hauing begon by litle and litle to fall awaie into a diuerse and negligent custome seeing before as I suppose the offences were lesse both through shame of them which declared their owne transgressions through the precisenes of them that were appointed iudges in this case And for the same cause I gather that the Emperour Theodosius prouiding for the good name grauitie of the Churches made a law that women should not be admmitted to the ministerie of god except they had children and were aboue threescore yeares old according to the expresse cōmaundement of the Apostle and to expell out of the Churches those women that were shorne in the head to depriue such Bishops from their Bishoppricke which did admit any such women The storie beeing as I haue set it forth out of the reporte of the Ecclesiasticall writers now let vs see how sincerely you handle the matter and report thereof at
of the Primitiue Church or to disprooue Beatus Rhenanus which denieth the same accusing both the noueltie and and the tyranie thereof and the danger that mens consciences haue beene in through it beside manie other knowne inconueniences ALLEN But now if you conferre with the Fathers of all ages and of euerie notable Church touching this confession to Gods Priests you may beginne if you list euen at this daie and driue vp both the trueth of the doctrine and the perpetuall practise thereof euen to the Apostles time In the late holie Council holden at Trent both the doctrine is confirmed and declared with all grauitie and also the aduersaries of that sacrament and the misconstructers of Christes wordes of remission to pertaine to preaching of the Gospell not to the verie act of absolution be by the consent of all Catholike states of the Christian world accursed excommunicated It was at Furence also decreed in a most generall assemblie of both the Latine and Greek Church that as wel the whol sacrament of penance as that especiall part which is called confession was of Christes institution In the great councell holden at Lateran there is so plaine charge giuen to euerie Christian to confesse his sinnes either to his owne ordinarie Parochian or to some other Priest that hath by him or otherwise authoritie and iurisdiction ouer the penitent that Protestantes affirme albeit verie false'y that confession was first instituted in the said Councel and this was more then three hundred yeares since And foure hundred yeares before that in a Prouinciall Councell that was kept at Vormacia there is a Canon made concerning the qualities of the priests that are constituted to be confessours and Penitentiaries where it is commaunded that they be such Qui possunt singulorum causas originem quoque modum culparum sigillatim considerare examinare That can particularlie trie out and examine the causes of euerie offender the manner and ground of their faultes FVLKE We are so well accquainted with your often bragges of Fathers and Councells that we neuer start for them seeing we knowe you haue nothing but the drosse of the latter times to cast at vs. For the Councell of Trentes decree we esteeme it as it is worthie being made by a few buckeram Bishoppes of Italie and some other Epicurian prelates of other countries to patch vp rather then to repaire the ruines and decaies of the kingdome of Antichrist In the late Councel of Florence I remember nothing decreed of this matter neither doe you note where we should finde it In the Lateran Councell that was kept litle more then 300. yeares since the Protestantes doe trulie affirme that the necessitie of auricular confession was first imposed vpon men of the Romish Church For in the councell of Wormes which you saie was 400 yeares elder there is neuer a word of confession or confessor but of wife consideration to be had of them that did penance by which are ment open offenders that did open pennance neither are you able to prooue the contrarie Paenitentibue saith the Canon serundum differentiam peccatorum c. To the penitents or such as doe penance let penance be decreed by the iudgement of the Priest according to the difference of their sinnes Therefore in giuing penance the Priest ought seuerallie to consider the causer of euerie one the beginning also manner of the faulies and diligentlie to examine and manifestlie to know the affection and sighings of the offenders also to consider the qualities of the times persons of the places ages that according to the consideration of the places ages or times or according to the qualitie of the offences the groning of euery offendor he turne not his eies from the holie rules Thus sarre the Canon after which follow the rules of penance to be apointed for diuers kindes of offences as for him that hath killed a Priest a pagane his parents or brother or for him that hath slain a man in his madnes or against his will and such like whereby it appeereth that the Canon was made for penance to be enioyned to publike offenders and not to compell men to confesse their secret sinnes ALLEN Which decree is borowed word for word almoste out of the last Canon of Constantinople Councell called the sixth generall which was long before all the forsaid Synodes Their discourse is long vpon the Priestes dutie which shoulde sitte on confessions whome they instruct by these wordes Oportebit qui facultatem absoluendi ligandi à Deo receperunt peccati qualitatem speculentur peccatoris promptitudinem ad reuersionem vt sic medicamentum admoueant aegritudini aptum ne si de peccato sine discrimine statuant aberrent à salute aegrotantis Those that haue receiued of our Lorde power to loose and binde must trie out the qualitie of euerie fault and the readines of the offender to returne vnto vertue that they maie prouide a medicine meet to the maladie lest if they should without distinct knowledge of their sinne giue iudgement they should erre in poruiding health for the sicke person By which Councell kept in Constantinople you maie easelie gather that neither confession was euer omitted by the lawe nor the common Penitentiarie long abrogated out of Constaninople Church And when I name these decrees of so manie generall Councels in diu rfe ages I do not onelie call them generallie to witnesse for my cause which were inough seeing euerie determination there passeth as by the sentence of the holie Ghoste and Christes owne iudgement of whose presence such hotie assemblance is assured but I appeale to eueric holy Bishop Priest and Prince of the world that agreed to the same and were there assembled euerie of which was of more experience learning and vertue or at the least of more humilitie then all our aduersaries aliue But now if you go to trie other the learned writers of all times for the practize of this point then our labour shall be infinite but our cause more strong and 〈◊〉 aduersaries sooner confounded I need not for that practize name the learned schoolemem of excellent capacitie in deepe mysteries because they were so late and because Heretikes can not denie but they are all vndoubtedlie against them and euerie one for vs Thomas Aquinas is ours Dionysius is ours I meane the Carthusian If anie man doubt of Saint Bernard let him reade the life of Malachie whome he praiseth sor bringing into vre the most profitable vse of confession in the rude partes of Ireland Saint Bede is prooued before not onelie to haue allowed confession to the Priest but to haue expounded Saint Iames wordes of confession for the sacrament of pennance and vttering our sinnes to Gods Ministers And he recordeth that in our Countrie of England before his daies confession was vsed to a Priest Whereof as also os pennance and satisfaction there is an example or two in the
man that by nature is a like sinner and by vse of hearing manie faultes can not much maruell at oures and by office there is moste secret and carefull ouer vs what should we talke of other impediments where this comfortable motion is so great What comforte can be more then to haue such a friende who for that I ioyne with him yea euen mine owne soule to his after the dearest manner and moste secret sorte must needes be to me a full staie of conscience a witnesse of my sorowfull heart an intercessour for my sinnes a suretie before God for my amending a minister in my reconciliation and one that vnder Christ as Saint Clement also saith shall both beare my sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of me to saluation in which case me thinke surelie man is after a sorte set in maruelous quietnes and almost discharged euen of himselfe and his owne custodie whiles he giueth ouer his owne aduise and iudgement and whollie hangeth in earth vpon him whome God hath appointed to be his pastour and gouernour of his soule Therefore good reader call vpon Christ for encrease of faith and beleeue onelie this ordinance of God was of infinite wisedome and high prouidence prouided for thy sake and it can not be burdenous vnto thee Christ shal giue thee courage and heart to withstand the contrary temptations and to serue him though thou forsake thy selfe To vs therefore confusion of face for our sinnefull life and to him honour and glorie euerlasting Amen FVLKE You doe well to confesse that shame is but small ales where a man is brought into a fooles paradise of so easie remission of his sinnes for so light a confession before one man as sinfull and perhaps more sinfull then he and bounde as you saie by office to secrecie But the comforte you speake of is vaine and miserable though all confessors were learned and able to giue good counsel as not one among an hundereth of your hedge Priests fryers are For how can he be a suretie before God for an other mans amending when he cannot be surety for his owne reformation He may well beare other mens sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of other mens saluation to his owne damnation when he preacheth not Christ the onely propitiation for our sinnes but will so be a minister of reconciliation that he will robbe Christ of his glorie and the people of their saluation In which case in deede you set men in a maruelous and mischeuous securitie and almoste discharge them euen of themselues as youre owne wordes are and of their owne custodie while you make them giue ouer their owne aduise and iudgement and wholly to hang in earth vpon you not vpon Christ whome God hath appointed to be the Pastour and gouernour of their soules euen ypon earth though he be in heauen and they vpon the earth Therefore good reader marke how blaspemoussie these Popish dogges would haue thee to hang thy selfe whollie vpon them in earth as the onelie Pastours and gouernours of their soules by which they exclude Christ altogether from any feeding or gouerning of our soules vpon earth and debar all Christians not onelie from depending whollie vpon Christ as they might and doe but from hanging any thing at all vpon him in earth seeing they will haue men to hang wholly vpon their cōfessor on earth as though god had made any such pastors gouernours of mens soules as should put Christ out of office challenge the whole trust of mens saluation vnto themselues These be the right lims of Antichrist that chalenge the chiefe honour of God vnto themselues which is faith and hope of saluation to be reposed on them for what other thing is it that a man should quiet him selfe by be discharged of himselfe his owne custodie and wholy hang vpon his gostlie Father but to beleeue in him to put his whole faith hope confidence of saluation onelie vpon him while he is vpon earth And for this matter he is content to accept onelie faith because he hath no other argument to perswade thee but remember that faith commeth by hearing of the worde of God which abhorreth and accurseth al confidence reposed in man And therfore confusion of face be to al blasphemous papists not onelie for their sinnefull life but also for their abhominable heresies and to god be al glorie honour and dominion in Christ Iesus our Lord for euer euer Amen THE SECOND PARTE OF THE TREATISE CONCERning the Popes pardons The author by iust causes was mooued to beleeue the trueth of this doctrine of Pardons before he knew the meaning of them and afterward found them of greater importance then he toke them before to be THE FIRST CHAP. ALLEN OF the high power of remission and pardoning of sinnes giuen by Christ to his onelie spouse the Church in the Church in the persons of her holy Bishops and priests as a thing annexed to the wholl order and to be exercised in the sacrament of penance vpon all men that be of their seuerall iurisdictions and humblie shall submit themselues by confession of their faultes to their iudgements I haue alreadie spoken so much as may suffice for the satisfying of the sober and iust reproofe of the contentious And now because as well the course of my former matter as the speciall neede of these daies driueth me thereunto I will make further search and triall of the right of that challenge which as well the high priest as other principall Pastours and Bishops make by the force of their Prelacie and keye of iurisdiction ouer and aboue the power of orders touching Pardons and Indulgences Whereof whiles I doe intreate the more attention and heede I require of thee gentle reader because here all the lamentable tragedie and toile of this time first did begin and here haue al those that perished in the late contradiction of Core principallie fallen And in no article of Christian faith euer more offence hath bin receiued of all sortes almoste euen of the wise then in this one of the Popes pardons FVLKE WHen you haue heard what were these iust causes which he pretendeth you shall plainlie see that the authors faith was not grounded vpon Gods word but vpon humane presumption and therefore deserueth to be called rather a fansie then a faith Likewise when you shall haue read ouer the whol treatise to the ende you shall perceiue though you read no confutation that he hath not any warrant either out of the holie scriptures or out of the auncient fathers for any Popes pardons such as he should take vpon him to defende For that the Church of God and pastours therof haue power to release them that are bounde and vpon perswasion of their repentance to remit or pardon some part of the triall appointed for them it is no question betweene vs but of the popes pardons graunted vnder his Leaden Bulls for remission of sinnes but a poena culpa
but the promise of truth which indeed if it be shewed so manifest that it cannot come in doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which I am holden in the Catholike Church But if it be onelie promised and not exhibited no man shall mooue me from that faith which bindeth my minde with so manie and great knottes vnto Christian religion Let vs see therfore what Maniche doth teach me c. These wordes declare that setting aside the wisdom of the Church grounded vpō the scriptures which the heretikes would not acknowledge there were manie other things that might iustlie holde him in the Catholike Church among which the name of Catholikes was but one and serued onelie at that time when the Catholike religion was moste commonlie imbraced therefore he denied not that the name of Catholike onelie was sufficient to teach a man to knowe the Church and the trueth by it but acknowledgeth that all these motiues of vniuersalitie consent miracles succession name of Catholike must giue place to the trueth when it is plainlie shewed out of the canonicall scriptures as in the chapter following he vrgeth them to shew out of the gospells of Christ wher it is writen that Manicheus was an Apostle of Christ as his sect affirmed and his epistle pretended As for the reason you alledge that vnlearned men are not able to stand with heretikes in disputation which wil challenge the Church to themselues is of no force for the vnlearned man ought to know the Church by the true notes thereof conteined in the scriptures which is sufficient for to satisfie his conscience although he can not cunninglie auoide all the Sophisticall arguments that the aduersarie bringeth whereas theonelie name of Catholikes can breede no true faith or quietnes of minde which is not obteined by the peoples iudgement but by authoritie of the worde of God And seing the people are commonlie deceiued in many matters of difficultie and moste of all in misnaming of things what assurance shall the vnlearned haue that they be not deceiued in this so weightie a matter and wherein their speach may so easilie be abused But howsoeuer it was the common calling of the people brought you to know Catholikes Catholikes to know the Church and the creede taught you to beleeue the Church rules in Popes pardons then in other articles Thus is your faith builded altogether vpon humane presumptions the ladder whereof is this you beleeue Popes pardons because the Church of Rome alloweth them you beleeue the Church of Rome because it is the Catholike Church you beleeue that it is the Catholike Church because the people commonlie call it so But of Christian faith Saint Paull describeth another ladder faith commeth by hearing hearing by the worde of God preached by ministers sent of God so that against the authoritie of god who giueth both his worde and preachers and by them true faith you haue the generall and common calling of men which giue authority to that companie to be the Church which is surnamed Catholike which company so called may cause you to beleeue what they list and this indeed is the ground of al your heresies if you had gone one step lower that the Deuill inspireth ignorant and wicked men to call his fowle blouse the Romish synagogue by the name of the beautifull spouse of Christ his Catholike Church ALLEN The second cause that mooued me to reuerence the power of pardoning in the high Bishup and to like his Indulgences was the verie persons of them which first reprooued the same In whome because I saw the worlde to note and wonder at other manie moste blasphemous and inexcusable heresies I verilie deemed though I was then for my age almoste ignorant of all thinges that this opinion and impugnation of Pardons could neither be of God nor of good motion that first began in them begate such a number of most wicked cōtentio is opinions as streight vpon the controlling of the Churches power herein did ensue not onelie against Christs officers in earth but against his Saints in heauen against himselfe in the blessed Sacrament This extreame intollerable issue mee thought verilie could haue no holie entraunce and therfore with the other named cause stayed me in the Churches faith euen then when I had no feeling nor sense in the meaning of these matters FVLKE You were a wise young man in those daies when being almost ignorant of all things as you confesse you would follow the iudgement of the worlde in condemning the persons of them that reprooued pardons and were not able to iudge whether they were iustlie condemned of other blasphemous inexcusable heresies Nay at this presēt time as great a cleark as you are taken to be among your friends you are not able to conuince thē of such blasphemous inexcusable heresies as you prate of And yet if you had bin thō as able iustly to haue reproued thē by the scriptures of such monsters as the world did wonder at in them yet you staied vpō a weake staffe except this be a good atgumēt with you heretiks hold manifest false opinions therefore they holde no true opinions Much more wiselie and soundlie you should haue sought the true Church as Saint Augustine teacheth out of the scriptures and thereby iudged of the worldes noting and wondring which because it consisteth moste of wicked men doth commonlie condemne Christ and his Gospell Out of the same scripture you should haue learned who were Christes officers and whoe the limmes of Antichrist what honour is due vnto the saints in heauen and what manner presense there is of Christ vpon earth But as your faith was thē grounded vpō simple sophistrie in supposing that which no wise man will graunt so is it not now much differing from the same although you haue learned with more craft to peruert a few scriptures and to wrest the sayinges of some dctors for a florish hauing no more substance of true faith which is builded vpon the word of God then you had before For if your shameles principle be denyed that you are the Church of Christ then you come back to these beggerlie motyues as in your articles and Bristowes motyues is manifest being not able either to finde the notes of the true Church in the synagogue of Rome nor to iustify the doctrine of the Church of Rome to be builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles when triall is to be made by their writings ALLEN But afterwad reading the historie of the pitifull fal of our time and there considering the sinister intent and occasion of the first improofe of Pardons and all the strange endeuours of Luther whose name is cursed to all good men who first in all mans memorie sauing one Wicleffe who was condemned in Constance Councell for the same was so bolde onelie vpon contention and couetousnes to condemne that which himselfe in Conscience knew to be true and lawfull I could not
man of sinne and euerlasting paine whome he also punished for the same sinne with temporal paine as a satisfaction to the iustice of God which none could satisfie in part or in wholl but he onelie by his obedience and suffering ALLEN And this iurisdiction and power of regiment he gaue to Peter principallie when he bestowed on him the keies of heauen vpon the rest of the Apostles with him the power of binding and loosing which is moste principallie and properlie meant of enioyning penance or punishing by sharpe discipline the sinners euill life either before they forgine his sinnes or afterward For as the place of the 20. of Saint Iohn properly concerneth the power of pardoning reteining or forgiuing penance for satisfaction in the sacrament by the right of Priesthoode receiued in their orders though it may somewhat concerne the iurisdiction of the high Magistrates also so the place of Saint Matthew rather perteineth to the chastisment of the wicked by the open discipline as they haue the regiment of al our affaires then it doth to the sacramentall remisstion or satisfaction enioyned For ligare there doth signifie some bond of punishment wherewith the partie is tied and charged for his correction and not onelie bonde of sinne wherewith the Church bindeth no man no more then God himselfe doth but euerie man onelie bindeth himselfe in his owne sinnes And the Church or her ministers doe properlie then binde when they punish by their iurisdiction the sinnes committed not for the damnation of them that did fall but for their correction and amendment And the plaine mention of excommunication which there is expressed to be giuen to the Apostles for the chastisment of such as by more gentle admonition will not amend nor obeie the Church doth prooue that to binde in that place namelie importeth power of punishment to be executed on the offenders which way of chastisment is an open exercise of discipline giuen to the Apostles to be vsed at their discretions for the edifiyng of Christs Church Therefore as to binde there is as well an act of the proper power of iurisdiction as it is a function of prie sthoode to be exercised in the sacrament of penance so to loose soluere in that place though it may signifie to remit sinnes in waie of sacramentall confession yet it is more aptlie correspondent so the words that went before of binding which was not sinne but the paine and punishment for sinne whereby it must needes fillow that as to binde doth fignifie to charge that penitent person with some temporall paine so to loose must also meane to dissolue the bande which before was laied on him for present correction FVLKE Christ gaue no more iurisdiction or power of regiment to Peter pricipallie when he bestowed the keies of the kingdome of heauen vpon him then vpon the rest of the Apostles vnto whome he gaue the like and equall power of binding and loosing of opening and shutting the kingdome of heauen as he did to Peter The same thing verilie saith Saint Cyprien were the rest of the Apostles that Peter was indued with the same fellowspip both of honour and of power That the power graunted in the 18. of Matthew pertaineth moste properlie and principallie to the chaistisment or reconcilement of open offendours by discipline the circumstance of place affordeth no lesse as the text Iohn the 20. ratifieth the effect of their message in them that imbrace or refuse the doctrine of the Gospell And that the gouernours of the Church haue power by excommunication to binde and by absolution to loose vpon good ground and cause in both cases you neede not halfe these wordes to prooue it for we doe acknowledge and practize no lesse in the Churches of Christ where we haue gouernement likewise that the Church hath authoritie for triall of the parties repentance to enioyne some exercise of humiliation and to release the same or part thereof beeing satisfied with the manifest signes of repentance and submission it is also out of controuersie But of your sacrament of penance or satisfaction for sinnes by either discipline established Matthew the eighteene or power of remission of sinnes graunted in the text Iohn the twentie we shall neuer be agreed vntill you can make plaine demonstration out of the holie scriptures that either God hath instituted the one or alloweth the other which you shall neuer be able to doe ALLEN For this is a rule moste certein that all the bandes which the Church laieth vpon any offender be medicinable if the partie list to take them and may be loosed by the same power of the Church by which they were bounde before And therefore euer as mention is made in scripture of binding or which is all one punishing of sinnes there is also mention of the like power of loosing for Christ would not giue power to the Church to binde or correct sinnes but much more he would haue the Church resemble himselfe being her head in mercie and therefore gaue her alwaies power to loose that kinde of punishment which shee by her ministers had bounde or inoyned before For these two actes beeing answerable in conference and contrarietie muste necessarilie follow ech other and properlie to the like power and prerogatiue Then the one beeing giuen to the Apostles euen out of the sacrament of penance the other muste needes also by the like right be receiued S. Ambrose rebuketh much the Nouatians because they would haue the Church enioyne penance but they liked not that he should mercifullie release the same againe nor the penitents sinnes neither Dominus saith he par ius soluendi esse 〈◊〉 ligandi qui vtrumque pari conditione permisit ergo qui soluendi ius non habet nec ligandi babes Our Lord would haue the right of losing binding to be like for equally he gaue the power of both Therfore whosoeuer hath not power to loose he hath no power to binde If anie man then list follow the Nouatians he maie holde at his pleasure that it preteineth to the Churches iurisdiction to binde that which she can not loose againe contrarie to Christes expresse graunt made vnto her first in the person of Peter and then in the right of all the Apostles to whome when he had promised as well the keies of order as iurisdiction he said vnto them whatsoeuer you shall binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in earth it shal be loosed in heauen first giuing them thereby authorititie to punish and then to pardon And therefore as the sacrament of penance wherein sinnes be released or retained was grounded vpon the wordes of Christ spoken to the Apostles after his resurrection whereof we talked so much in the former treatise so the power of giuing pardon or punishing out of the sacrament by the vertue of the iurisdiction as the Pope and other Bishoppes now doe and alwaies haue done is founded moste fast vpon this
place of Saint Matthew spoken first and principallie to Saint Peter and then to other Apostles vniuersallie Now if anie list be assured by the Doctours interpretation that the wordes of our Sauiour of binding and loosing doe directlie giue power to the pastours of his Church to punish the offenders and release their sentence of seueritie againe let them read Saint Augustines 75. Epistle where they shall finde much of this matter and thus amongst other thinges spiritalis poena de qua scriptum est Quae ligaueritis in terra erunt ligata in coelo ipsas animas obligat The spirituall punishment whereof Christ spake when he said what-soeuer you binde in earth it shall be bound in heauen do fast binde the soules themselues And Saint Chrysostome disputing excellently vpon these wordes of binding or loosing compareth the iurisdiction of Princes temporall vnto the spirituall power herein and maketh this to excell that as farre as heauen passeth the earth and the soule in dignitie surmounteth the bodie If anie King saieth Chrysostome should giue vnto some subiect such authoritie vnder him that whome whosoeuer he would he might cast into prison and againe release him when he list all men would account that subiect moste happie But he that hath receiued not of an earthlie King but of God him selfe a power that passeth that other as farre as heauen is from the earth and the soule excelleth the bodie I trow him euerie man must both wonder at and highlie reuerence Thus farre said the Doctor acknowledging that as some by Princes grauntes maie prison or pardon the bodies so the Priestes maie punish mens soules and loose or pardon them againe For the proofe whereof he applieth fitlie both the woordes of Christ spoken to S. Peter aud the like afterward to all the Apostles concerning binding and loosing FVLKE Whether all the bands of the Church be medicinable if the partie list to take them Doctors doe dour seing there is a sin vnto death not to be praied for And S. Paul layed such a band vpon Alexander the copper smith that he desired the Lord to requit him according to his workes which could be no lesse then eternall damnation without hope of true and faithfull repentance for which Esaw found no place though he sought the blessing with teares For true repentance is not a matter of mens list but an excellent gift of God That case excepted it is out of question that the Church hath power as well to loose as to binde what or whome soeuer and God in heauen doth ratifie that which the Church vpon good cause doth on earth And therefore to prooue this whereof there is no doubt there needed neither Ambrose Augustine nor Chrysostmes authoritie to be cited except it be to shew how prodigall you are of proofe where there is no neede and howe drie and barren where there is most necessitie vnlesse you will haue your wordes and sayings go without al warrantize as euen in this section that this power or iurisdiction as you call it is giuen principallie to Peter that the sacrament of penance is grounded vpon Christes words spoken to his Apostles after his resurrectiō which of the Doctors affirmeth Contrariwise Chrysostome in the place by you cited as you your selfe confesse doth fitlie applie the words of Christ spoken to Saint Peter and the like to al the Apostles concerning binding and loosing vnto all priests alike therefore no principalitie in Peter For these and such like matters of controuersie the Doctors serue not your true but you would haue the ignorant suppose that as you can cite the Doctors full and direct for manie thinges whereof we doe not contend so in all matters of contention the Doctors are full on your side But if anie papist haue but halfe an eie he will or maie espie your insirmitie though you doe neuer so cunninglie dissemble it ALLEN Againe Saint Cyprian and other holy bishoppes of Affrike which had inioyned long penance to certaine that had fallen in time of persecution from their faith for flatterie or feare of the worlde and had thought to haue giuen them anie Indulgences peace or pardon for that then they called dare pacem which we now tearme to giue a Pardon til the houre of death came Statueramus saie they vt agerent diu plenam poenitentiam we had verilie determined that they should haue done out all their full inioyned penance but now vpon other great respectes we doe agree to giue peace of pardon to those that haue earnestlie done some penance alreadie and lamented bitterlie their former fall But marke well here by what authoritie they chalenge this power and what they doe chalenge They chalenge pardie power to giue penance to the offenders and they claime by right the release thereof Againe they clearelie take vpon them in consideration of the fault to inloine what they list and how long they list and vpon like iust respect by their wisdomes to pardon some peece of the same againe either after death or else if good matter mooue them long before But by what Scripture doe they claime such iurisdiction that they maie giue discipline to offenders euen without the 〈◊〉 of penance onelie by their iurisdiction and right of regiment and then by their onelie letters to giue them in absence peace and pardon of their inioyned penance againe Saint Cyprian and all his honorable fellowes shall answere you in the same place for there they giue a reason of that their proper right Quia ipsepermisit qui legem dedit vt ligata in 〈◊〉 is etiam in coelo ligata essent solui autem possent illic qui hic prius in Ecclesia soluerentur That is to saie he doth permit vs who made this lawe that whatsoeuer we bound on earth should be bound in heauen and those thinges should be loosed in heauē aboue which the Church here beneath releaseth before Let vs therefore be bolde also to answere our aduersaries with the said holie Fathers if they aske vs by what right the Pope or Bishoppe giue pardon or what is that he doth forgiue by his pardon let vs answere for them and for our Mother the Church that they pardon onelie the penance inioyned or other paine due for greeuous sinnes after they be remitted in the sacrament of penance And that they maie so doe by good authoritie we alleadge Christes owne worthines with the named holie Fathers whatsoeuer you binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen and if you loose it in earth before it shall also be released in heauen But vpon this practise of Gods Church I will charge them further hereafter FVLKE This authoritie of Saint Cyprian is no more necessarie then the former of Chrisostome Augustine Ambrose For we doubt not but the Church with the gouernours thereof haue sufficient power by Christes graunt to release such time of penance or parte therof as is enioyned to offenders to prooue their repentance and to
the Church should of dutie initigate the rigor of those Canons and not send men to secke pardons for them Whereas many a man that hath needc lacketh either monie or other occasions to purchase pardons but if the manners of men be so dissolute as they like not streight penance they are more dissolute vnto sinne and so had need of the bitte of streighter penance to keepe them in then the raine of pardons and easie penance to let them runne You repeat againe that this penance Canonicall was appointed not onelie for cautele and prouision against the like sinnes but also for satisfying of Gods iustice But hereof no proofe at all but a bare affirmation ALLEN The third waie of punishment of temporal sinne is by Gods owne hand as when he striketh some by sickenes 〈◊〉 by temporal death or by the paines of Purgatorie which 〈◊〉 a place of temporal satisfaction correction of the soule only in the next life Thus were diuers of the Corinthians cast into infir mites manie striken dead and further also punished in the next world in the place of iudgement there not eternal but transitory because they would not iustly iudge and correct themselues And which is much to be noted for our purpose the Apostles also had authoritie giuen them to punish the offendours often by bodelie vexation and death sometimes that they might thereby make true shew and proofe to all the world that they and their successours had iurisdiction ouer the soules of men whiles they made it euident by manifest signes wrought in the face of all the world euen vppon the bodies themselues which are not so properlie subiect to the gouernours of the Church as the soules of the faithfull be though their bodies to for the soules sake be subiect to the said power And not withstanding the same miraculous force in correcting sinners did cease afterwardes yet the like power ordinarilie to be exercised by giuing penance and seperating from the Sacraments remaineth in the Churches right still And here we maie not thinke that the killing of diuers as well by Gods owne hand amongest the people of Israell in Moset time as of other that died of diseases for punishment of vnworthie receiuing the Sacrament in Saint Paules daics or sleaing of Ananias and his wife by S. Peters hand manie moe perhapes whereof there is no talke in the text we maie not deny I saie that these were all killed either of God or Christes Apostles to eternall damnation but rather for their temporall correction and the auoiding of Gods iudgements to come especiallie where anie of them did repent them of their fault before their deserued death came vpon them FVLKE That God striketh by sicknes or temporal death his children sor their chastisment and example of others it is verie certaine but that he sendeth anie into purgatorie or punisheth for satisfaction of his iustice I must stil denie vntil I see it plainly proued Neither do I finde that the Corinthians which neglected to iudge themselues in this life were punished with anie transitorie punishment in the next world That the Apostles had authoritie to aftlict mens bodies prooueth not that they or their successours had iurisdiction ouer mens soules But their spirituall power is otherwise sufficiently testified as well in retaming sinnes as in casting out of the Church such as teeme by gentler discipline incorrigible Concerning all those that haue bin or be striken with the hand of God with temporall death we leaue the iudgement to him selfe If they did trulie repent before their death we haue sure testimonie that God hath receiued them to mercie But hereof it followeth not that their temporall punishment was a satisfaction of Gods iustice neither-saith Saint Hierome anie such thing ALIEN Now by these three diuers waies of correction for sinnesremitted no doubt the Pardons of Gods ministers must be limited and vnderstanded so that whosoeuer giueth a pardon lawfully he must either discharge the penitent of the punishment which his Ghostlie Father enioyned him or that the olde lawes of most holie Councels charged the like offenders withal or that God himselfe enioyned sometimes in this world but especiallie in the next life where god more exactlie properlie punisheth both for sins remitted not remitted If the pardō be large it taketh awaie the whole pain if it be otherwise it determineth the number of daies and releaseth not all but part of the pennance onelie that is to saic so manie daies or yeares as in the Indulgence is mentioned Whereof no man can now be ignorant if he doe but marke that the penance which the Pope taketh vpon him to remit was also limited by yeares of fasting praying abstinence from the Sacraments and such 〈◊〉 as if your Confessour had giuen you in penance to fast euerie fridaie bread and drinke onelie for some notorius sinnes confessed vnto him then the Pardon for twentie daies would discharge you of so manie daies from your said bond as be named and if it be a free and plenarie Indulgence it shall discharge you of the bond of all the daies or yeares appointed which you haue not before the receit of the said pardon accomplished And this is exceeding plaine for the two first kindes of punishments which we said were adioyned for satisfaction by the Churches lawes and by the confessours prescription For they stood vpon daiet and yeares so the remission of the same must needes keepe the like forme For which cause you shal see often expressed De Poenitentiis iniunctis in the Indulgence And that forme of graunt remission was vsed alwaies in gods Church For S. Cyprian did remit a great peece sometimes De poenitentiis inunctis of the enioyned penance when he gaue peace to such as fell in time of persecution long before they had fulifilled their prescribed penance and so did S. Paull to the Corinthian that had committed incest And so doth Nice Councel prescribe to Bishops that they should or might at the lest Humaniùs agere deale more gentlie with those that denied their faith in the persecution of Licinius that they might pardō them before if they saw cause though seauen yeares penance was prescribed vnto them In which places that the Church now calleth a Pardon or Indulgence was tearmed sometimes donare aliquid in persona Christi to giue or graunt something to the offender in Christes person and so called Saint Paull it sometimes it was called Dare pacem as Saint Cyprin termeth it in manie places of his workes sometimes it was called Humaniùs agere To deale gentlie with sinners or to shew vnto them humanitie and so doth Nicen and Ancyran Councells terme it Licebit etiam Episcopo humanius circa aliquid cogitare It shall be lawfull for the Bishop to deale more curteouslie with them saith the holie Councell FVLKE First you tell vs that the pardon must discharge men either of al or some part of these three kindes of
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life and therefore that Purgatorie bindeth no man but in respect of satisfying Gods iustice which was not answered here before either by our selues or by the Churches correction and enioyned penance FVLKE The cause you confesse to be waightie that the gouernours of the Church should release that paine which Gods hand hath laid vpon the offender for his temporall correction and therefore you must stand vpon it but as long as you stand you bring neither authoritie of scripture testimonie of antiquitie reasonable argument or sensible experience For first the ground of al your disputation is vtterlie false that God punisheth for sinnes remitted to satisfie his iustice And therefore though I graunt your first consideration which is that God punisheth vs for sinne the more because we punish not our selues yet I may not graunt your conclusion the argument whereof is nothing but your asseueration if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisfieth Gods righteousnes For no punishing or suffering of punishment can satisfie Gods iustice or anie part thereof but the punishment suffered by Christ who was beaten for our faults and striken for our offences and therefore his suffering is a full satisfaction for our vnrighteousnes Neither doth Saint Paull speak of anie discipline in the life to come when he exhorteth vs to iudge ourselues but sheweth that the punishment or iudgement which God executeth in this world vpon his children is a cha stisment that we be not condemned with the world as they that neither by doctrine nor by punishment are brought to repentance your next conclusion is that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him selfe doth not binde man but for lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life But this conclusion you your selfe do afterward denie when you affirme that bodelie punishment commeth vpon men for manie other causes then for correction for sinne onelie or a purgation of a mans life past Finallie if purgatorie do binde no man but in respect of satisfying gods iustice so long as it is certaine that Gods iustice is satisfied toward al his elect in the death and obedience of Christ it is out of doubt that purgacorie hath nothing to do with anie of Gods elect to whome Christ is giuen of his father to be wisdome righteousnes holines and redemption that as it is written he that reioyceth maie reioyce in the Lord. ALLEN Consider secondlie that he thatfully is discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life whether it be iust accomplishing of his due aud deserued penance or by remission of Gods Church and answering otherwise his lack therein the same person must of necessitie be also charged of Purgatory and alpaine in this life which els God could haue enioyned for sinne because this debt of Purgatorie rose vnto the penitent for the answer of Gods iustice and lack of paiment in this life the which being discharged to the honour of God and the reliefe of the partie there remaineth no bond of paine to come For debt is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie and I speake rather of 〈◊〉 then of other painer enioyned by God in this life because that is euer appointed to man onelie as a recompence of Gods iustice and as due correction for sinne remitted when of all other paines in this world whether it be sicknes or death no man can assuredlie saie that this or that bodelie punishment came vpon anie man as a correction for his sinnes onelie or as a purgation of his life past For somtimes suchthings folow the necessary of our corrupted nature sometimes they be for our proofe and exercise and sometimes for other causes But those kindes of punishments which God laieth vpon man onelie for correction and satisfying for his sins neuer fal vpon him after he be either iudged by his owne teares or the Churches sufficient satisfaction enioyned or els vpon reasonable cause remitted The like afflictions maie continue in anie person after the bonde of them be remooued or maie be giuen afterward but for the satisfaction of his owne sinnes or anie debt proceeding thereof they be not because the debt is discharged in so much that I dare be bolde to saie if anie man were sick by Gods appointment for that cause onelie to satisfie for his sinnes remitted before in the sacrament that he should straight recouer vpon the discharge of the debt which he did owe to God for his iustice if that into mitie were for no other cause but that onelie as it maie be for manie mo wherof no man can casilie iudge FVLKE He that is fullie discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life by free remission of his sinnes through the satisfaction of Iesus Christ must needes be dischar ged of Purgatorie except you will saie that accomplishing of penance and remission of the Church is of more force then the suffering of Christ and the remission of God For debt as you saie truelie is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie But God sorgiueth our sinnes freelie and Christ hath paied the redemption for them iustlie as all the scriptures do testifie Therefore there remaineth no bond of paine to come But now you render a reason why you speake of purgatorie rather then of other paines enioyned by God in this life And that is this that purgatorie is neuer suffered but sor satisfying for sinne onely where other paines of this life maie be for other causes Marke how this geare hangeth together First you haue no shew of proofe that there remaineth anie paine due to satisfie Gods iustice for sinnes remitted but the afflictions of this life and now you confesse that they maie be and often are for other causes How prooue you then that euer they be for this pretended cause namelie for satisfying of Gods iustice for sinnes remitted Well let that passe Seeing the afflictions of this life were brought to prooue that there be three diuerse waies of temporal punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euerie of which waies maie in some cases be released in parte or in wholl by the Popes pardons how happeneth it that we can haue no experience of the Popes pardonsin releasing any man of the temporall afflictions of this life as sicknes imprisonment c You answer that these bodilie afflictions maie be for other causes so flie quite from your holde yet that you may stand in a corner pelt your enemies you turne again say that you dare be bold to say if any man were sick by gods appoint ment for that cause onely c. that he should straight waie recouer vpon the discharging of that debt which he did owe to gods iustice but a pardon wil discharge that debt therfore a pardō wil make him recouer This I confes is boldly said of you But where is the experience shew one man
that euer recouered by the Popes pardon among so many 1000. sick persons as haue receaued the Popes pardon was neuer none sick by gods appointment for satisfying of his iustice onelie But admit he were sick for other causes as welll as for that should not the popes pardon at the least take away some parte of his sicknes namelie so much as was laid vpon him for that cause onelie Let the Pope if he will make triall of his power to the confusion of his abuersaries graunt a generall pardon to all Papistes as he maie easilie do and then let it be tryed whether anie one shall straight recouer of his bodelie sicknes or other affliction or how manie shall be eased in their bodilie or wordly affliction Prouided alwaies that we haue no counter fait crankes that shall step vp sodenlie recouered of that disease whereof they were neuer sick But if you dare be bolde to saie that the Popes pardon can cause anie man to recouer straight vpon the recept of it you must also be bolde to say that the popes pardon can worke miracles for no man can sodainlie recouer of any disease which is not come to the period without miracle if the naturall cause thereof be not first taken awaie But alas who doth not see your miserable startinghole if that infirmitie were for none other cause but that onelie as it may be for manie mo wherof no man can easilie iudge A wretched clout to hide your infirmitie where no one example among so manie thousand as are sick in the world can be shewed So that purgatorie paines and the release of them are grounded vpon temporall afflictions whereof noe man can iudge for what cause they are no man can shew one example of the release of them by pardons ALLEN And therfore not onelie Christ him-selfe as I shall declare hereafter but Aaron also healed in the olde law the infirmities of thousands which came vpon them onelie for temporall punishment of sinnes And in the sacrament of extreme vnction the Apostle Saint Iames affirmeth that our Lord shall vpon the priestes praier lift vp the penitent or ease him of his sicknes whichhe meant onely or chiefely of that sicknes which commeth vpon the partie by Gods hand as a punishment of those sinnes which be remissible in the sacrament for such like means As Saint Chysostome sheweth also a passiing power in the ministers of God Church saying That they maie keepe mans soule from perishing and maie charge him with more easie paine euen at his passing hence besides that they maie ease his bodelie infirmitie also by their holie praiers in the act of extreame vnction in this sense speaketh he thereof FVLKE Said I that no man can shew one example of the release of bodilie afflictions Master Allen sheweth here examples of thowsands healed not onelie by Christ but by Aaron also of infirmities that came vpon them for temporal punishment of sinnes as he will declare hereafter But I replie what miracles Christ or Aaron wrought in his name they be no examples of the Popes pardons by which if he can prooue that anie man receaueth recouerie of his sicknes it is somewhat to the purpose The llke I saie of annointing with oile by which the elders of the primitiue and Apostolike Church endued with the miraculous gift of healing cured manie of their bodilie infirmities but that anie extreame vnction restoreth anie man to health or euer did I vtterlie denie and therefore we will not dispute of what sicknes they heale them Neither doth Chrysostome saie that the Ministers of Gods Church haue such a passing power that they maie ease bodilie infirmitie by their holie praiers in the act of extreame vnction neither hath his words anie sense thereof and therefore you deale fraudulentlie to tell vs of the sense when you rehearse not the wordes Plaine dealing becommeth an honest cause but when neither wordes nor sense can helpe you you must faine a sense which can not be prooued of the wordes which are these De sacerdotio lib. 3. cap. 6. preferring the ministers of the Church before bodelie parents by so much as the life to come excelleth this life for they truelie do beget vnto this life but these vnto that to come And they truelie can not so much as deliuer them from bodylie death nor driue awaie sicknes that falleth vpon them but these have often saued the soule that was stck and readie to perish causing some to haue a gentler punishment suffering some not to fall from the beginning and helping them not onely by teaching and admonishing but also by praiers For not onelie when they regenerate vs but after warde they haue power to forgiue sinnes It anie man sick among you saith he let him call for c. Where the text of Saint Iames is alledged onelie to prooue that they haue power to obteine forgiuenes of sinnes by praier and neither for healing of bodylie sicknes nor for extreme vnction The ceremonie whereof with the miracle whereunto it was annexed was ceased long before Saint Chrysostomes time ALLEN But as I said because no man can well iudge when man is afflicted onelie for temporall discipline or satisfaction or when far other purposes to vs vnknowne the Church of God that vseth high wisdome and moderation in all things medleth not directly in pardoning by her iurisdiction with any such bodily afflictions as god chargeth man with alin this life which maie be to the forsaken as a beginning of their eternall damnation as Saint Augustine saith as well as a temporall correction and therefore not effectuallie remissible in the Church But the bond of Purgatorie that I saie in the Church maie be released and is released at euerie time that man worthilie receiueth a full and plenarie remission of all penance enioyned due to be enioyned by the law of the Churches decrees I do not speake now of the deliuerie of anie person from the paines of purgatory which alreadie is actuallie there or for the Churches power in releasing of their painet after they be in the course of Gods iudgement for the same I am not so farre yet but I speak of the discharge of the bond thereof or some portion of the same now before the partie do passe hence which is a great deale more proper to the Churches power and more easie to be brought to passe then when the penitents soule is alredy in iudge ment there to which place the Churches iurisdiction as some suppose doth not extend If the simple vnderstand me not let him marke my meaning by an example The paines of hell can not neither by God nor man ordinarilie be helpen or released after man be in the same but the debt of Hell which is due for euerie mortall sinne is discharged allwaies at our repentance in so much that the priest in the sacrament of penance with the sinne euer remitteth the bonde of Hell and preuenteth Gods iudgement in the same So if
olde lawe to prooue that the Popes pardons extend vnto purgatorie is verie farre fett For the priest hood of our sauiour Christ hath succeeded to the priesthood of the lawe as the bodie to the figure or shadow thereof But purchasing of mercie perteineth not to the ministers of the Church but preaching and declaring of Gods mercie wherein they excell the preaching office of the priests of the lawe in more large plaine and cleare demonstration thereof in Christ exhibited borne suffered raised from deade and ascended into heauen not in the matter of mercie or the onelie meane meritorius to obtaine it which is Iesus Christ. As for the discipline of the Church now is not vnlike to the discipline then neither is there anie cause in respect of Christ exhibited that it should be anie Iooser now then it was then For the grace of God which bringeth saluation to all men hath appeered instructing vs that we should vtterly denie vngodlines and worldlie lustes and liue soberlie iustlie and godly in this world waiting for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of the great god and our sauiour Iesus Chist which hath giuen himselfe for vs that he might redeeme vs from all iniouity and purge vs a peculiar people vnto himselfe zelous of good works Thus the holy Ghost describeth the end and effect of the mercie of God in Christ exhibited chargeing Titus to speake and exhort to these thinges to reprehend with alearnestnes and suffer no man to contemne him There is no cause therefore why the sinnews of discipline in the Church of Christ should be loosened or rather cutte in sunder by the Podes pardons which taketh vpon him to release all time of repentance appointed by the gouernours of the Church vnder pretense of greater mercie showed by Christ then was shewed in the olde law But Maises and Aaron you saie procured mercie and pardon for the people and then you bring in the example of paid no breined for worshipping the golden Image of a calse where Aaron him selse was so deepe in that he was no meete person to make intercession for others But in the example you prooue not anie power or iurisdiction of priesthood which doth ser forth onelie the effect of the praier of the faithfull as Saint Iames suth of Helias that he was a man and yet obteined great thinges by his praier Neither doth Moses pray with confidence of his priest lie office which he had not for Aaron was priest both by the law of nature as the elder and afterward by Gods especiall appointment but Moses praieth vpon confidence of Gods promises which were these that the people shoulde be brought into the lande of Chanaon and that Christ should come of the tribe of Iuda which could not haue had their effect if all the people had beene destroied though a great nation had beene made of Moses He strengthneth his faith also by two other reasons in his praier the one of the glorie of God which should be blasphemed by the Egyptiens if the people were destroyed in the wildernes the other of the benefites of God alreadie bestowed vpon the people which should be in vaine if the people shoulde thus sodenlie be consumed But of claiming it with confidence of his priesthood and requiring it as by his iurisdiction and office there is no mention For what iurisdiction or office could he haue to controll God in his iudgements And therefore it is a horrible blasphemous saying that God in a manner was at that point with them that he would pardon and punish at their pleasures Where your meaning is yet more biasphemous that God should much rather he at that point now to pardon and punish at the Popes pleasure which is nothing els but to exalte Antichrist aboue God when his iustice and mercie should depend vpon that deuill incarnates pleasure Yet for reason to excuse this blasphemie you saie that God maketh as it were meanes to Moses that he shoulde not staie him nor his anger from punishing of the offenders Let me alone Moses saith our Lord and suffer me to be angrie But who is so meanlie exercised in the scriptures that he doth not acknowledge that this speech of God as a thousand more in the scriptures is vttered after the affection and infirmitie of man whereof God is moste free yet condescending to the weakenes of mans vnderstanding often vseth so to speake Of which phrases of speech who so shall conclude as you doe maie inferre an hundred horrible heresies and more The true sense therefore of those wordes is that the people indeede had deserued to be destroied but that he had otherwise determined at the praier of Moses and for those causes which his spirit instructed Moses to vtter whome by this speech he prouoketh and stirreth vp to pretie for the people he was purposed to pardon and spare them not that he euer was of minde to submitt his iustice and mercie to mens pleasure in such sorte as he shoulde be driuen to make meanes to men that he might execute his iudgementes and shew his mercie both which he doth according to his owne moste free wil moste excellent wisdome and incomparable glorie ALLEN So when his sister Marie was punished by a leprosie for enuying at her brothers authoritie he cried vnto our Lorde and said Lorde God heale her againe of this disease and of his mercie so he did inioyning onelie vnto her seuen daies separation Aaron also procured pardon for the people by the like force of his praier and prieslhood when by sedition the people had highlie offended God yea he did as it were limitte and moderate Gods appointed punishment that his wrath should extend no farther but to the deslruction of a certaine number For when God said vnto Moses and Aaron depait you hence from amongst this people for euen now will I consume them Vpon which worde streight the destruction began and grew verie sore a flame of fire pitifullie consuming them But Aaron out of hande with his incense ranne to that parte where the plague of Gods ire wasted moste and there censed vp towardes heauen and carnestlie requested for the people and so placing him euen iust betwixt those that were slaine and the residue that were aliue the wrath and indignation of God ceassed FVLKE Moses by his praier obteined of God that he did heale his sister of her Ieprosie Ergo the Pope by his pardons maie release men of the punishment laide on them by God when in his pardons he vseth not humble praiers but standeth vpon his power and iurisdiction vpon the power of Peter and Paul and in paine of their indignation beside Gods wrath and sometimes moste presumptuouslie commaundeth the angels to execute his pleasure But whereas God enioyned to Marie seuen daies separation you should haue made your argument somewhat more probable if you could haue shewed out of the scripture that Moses by his pontificall iurisdiction released those daies or anie part
breedeth contention and exprobration of mens sinnes Of penance done by Marie Magdelen no auncient authenticall florie doth testifie and if it did it were hard to prooue that this sinnefull woman was Marie Magdelen ALLEN Indeed if we speake exactlie a Pardon doth not so much remit to the penitent anie good worke either freelie done or charged vnto vs by others appointmrnt as it doth release the bonde or debt of penance that where before I was of necessitie bounde to satisfaction for penance of my sinnes I maie now after the debt be remitted paie my penance freely that I maie not appeere vnworthie of other mens reliefe whiles I refuse not to worke also my selfe as a poore member in the wholl mysticall bodie of Christ in the knot whereof his mercie commeth vnto me And if it then so fall out that I by reason of sicknes or short life can not fulfill my penance I shall then departing hence be free by the grace of Christ graunted me in the Indulgence and so be whollie free of such debt as I els should haue supplied in purgatorie in my soule Let no man therefore doe lesse penance for anie pardons sake if his habilitie serue thereunto which is neuer giuen to hinder the fruites of good workes and repentance But where there is before God and our consciences iust cause whie we can not fulfill such necessarie and requisite satisfaction as is enioyned or deserued there we maie be in assured hope that God will confirme the sentence of his seruants Otherwise as Saint Cyprian saith if anie man not thus qualified seeke deceitfullie for a peace or pardon he deceiueth himselfe and Gods priest to who seeth the faces outwardlie of the penitents but the hearts of them God onelie beholdeth and accordieg to the behauiour of their mindes and meanings shall iudge them in the next worlde and amende in their punishment the sentence of his priests FVLKE If you spake exactlie before anie good worke that is inioyned as a penance and satisfaction for sinne is released by a pardon And the Popes declaration which I did latelie set downe out of the glosse affirmeth no lesse vpon his pardon But now to couer the shamefull abuse of the Popes pardons you extenuate the force and validity of them almoste as much as els where you magnified them Canonicall penance which you saide ought to be a rule of secret and shrift penance bindeth no man longer then his life For the Canons graunte a pardon of course at the houre of death euen to them that were excommunicated whereof it followeth that if the Popes pardon release not penance in this life it is good sor nothing As for cases of necessitie are dispensed with all by God himselfe without the Popes or anie mortall mans pardon For no inioyned penance can be of greater band then the rest of the sabbath which yet for necessitie maie be broken as our Sauiour sheweth by the example of Dauid eating the shewe bread which otherwise then in the case of necessitie had beene sacriledge for him to doe Saint Cyprian speaketh of hypocrites which counterfaiting repentance desired to be receiued into the Church from which they were iustlie excluded which if they deceiued the Church by fained repentance yet shoulde not they escape the iudgement of God He speaketh not of receiuing the Popes pardons Iubeleies dispensations absolutions and such like baggage ALLEN God Church though shee be much inclined to mercie yet shee crieth not with the flatterers and false preachers of the worlde peace where there is no peace And of our mother the Church it may well be verified that Saint Augustine spake of God himselfe in the like case Nemini dedit laxamentum peccandi saith he quamuis miserando deleat iam facta peccata si non satisfactio congrua negligatur She hath giuen no man a frreedome to sinne though by mercie she remitteth sinnes alreadie past if competent satisfaction be not neglected So that a Pardon can not well be beneficiall to anie man that neglecteth penance or without all cause omitteth his 〈◊〉 in fulfilling the same though it be exceeding commodious and profitable to him that lacketh time and space to satisfie where of good will and deuout intent he is readie thereunto Therefore I would aduertise all such as haue a Pardon or Indulgence vpon iust and true suggestion obteined for release of their inioyned penance or other deserued paine and thereupon omitte to doe their said satisfaction that they helpe the lack thereof otherwise where their habilitie is the better As if they can not through feebleres or other notorious perceiuing of harme thereby fast for satisfaction of their sinnes then let them supplie that by more liberall almes and charitable reliefe of such as be in necessitie For that kinde of charitie Christ 〈◊〉 charge to the Pharisies for the purging of their sinnes 〈◊〉 signifiesh the recompence of the residue of their paine and necessarie clensing of the remnants of their faults and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the remission of the same For almes will not purge deadlie sinne and the verie iniquitie thereof as Saint Augustine well noted in the place last out of him alledged Of the paine temporall then Christ saide giue almes and all is cleere with you But if you can not that waie for lack and insufficiencie then be earnest in praier and continuallie crie out in Pater noster forgiue vs our debtes dimitte nobis debitae nostra and by the Orison not onelie veniall sinnes but also the temporall debt that remaineth for deadlie crimes aster they be remitted and repented for be forgiuen In this case also it is verie good to helpe both by counsell trauell to turne the wicked sinners from their euill waies and to call Heretikes and Schismatikes home to Gods Church and Christes faith For of that worke it is written that it couereth a multitude of sinnes Againe to be daylie and deuoute at the blessed sacrifice of the Masse there with zeale and loue to embrace with Marie Magdalene the holie bodie of our sauiour and often to receiue the same with Zacheus into our house and temple of our bodie in the holie sacrament This moste excellent acte of religion doth wonderfullie diminish the deserued paine for sinne and make vs fitte to receiue fruitfullie the Pardon 's giuen by the Magistrates spirituall in the person of Christ. Or if this in these dismall daies may not be had yet learne at the least as well to lameut the lack of it as to be sorowfull and conirite for thy sinnes for earnest vnfained teares proceeding of loue and deuotion haue purchased many one a pardon Peter wept bitterlie and loued hartelie and therefore he was restored to grace and mercie and after Christ had punished as in way of penance his three denials with a triple demaund of his loue as though he had doubted of his heart towards him as Saint Hilarie Saint Cyrill and other doe inscrpret it he not onelie gaue him a
homini Christtano indulgentia potest dari qui firmiter credat Papam posse dare se posserecipere habeat charitatem in affectu vt sit verè contritus confessus Of the parte of him that receiueth ae pardon it is required that he haue faith in vnderstanding because a pardon cannot be giuen but to a Christian man which steadfastlie beleeueth that the Pope is able to giue and he able to receiue and that he haue charitie in affection that he be truelie contrite and confessed More then this beside the fulfilling of the cause for which the pardon was graunted he doth not require In so much that he alloweth that a man maie receiue a pardon for his father and mother whether they be liuing or dead if the Pope doe so applie his pardon that he which will goe ouer the sea or to S. Iames in his fathers or mothers name shall inioie it for them and the receiuer doth performe as much for them The iust cause of graunt in the giuers is determined by the glosse aforesaid to be the honour of God and the exaltation of faith by such profitable workes as are expressed and required in the pardons as pilgrimage saying of such a praier giuing to such a fraternitie c. in which not the quantitie but the kinde of the worke is to be considered so that for a verie small worke maruelous large pardon maie be graunted if it please the Pope to whome the dispensation of the treasure of the Church is principallie committed for Bishops which are able to giue but fortie daies out of that treasure are but pettie baylies whome if you will accuse for lauishing the treasure in graunting of ouer large pardons you break the Canon lawe which telleth you that you must not call him to an account for his doings ALLEN Neuertheles the causes of giuing indulgencies may be more or lesse reasonable according to the state and varietie of thinges which to the wisdome of Gods Vicar in earth is best seene whome Christ so ruleth in that case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies and in this great contempt of deuout and religious exercises the moouing onely of the people to prayer to holie peregrinations to the obedience of the Church may be a sufficient cause why there should be to praiers said vpon bookes beads or sanctified creatures for such purpose annexed great remission For looke what thinges be moste condemned of heretikes those things must Christian men be induced to reuerence with moste singular zeale religion Neither can there be anie thing in the worlde so necessarie for vs christian men of these times that be so voide of good workes as by deuotion and entire zeale to ioyne with our elders that in the holy communion of Sainctes we may be partakers of their vertuous deedes And that is the verie ende of all the Popes Pardons to make vs in our lake of satisfaction for our sinnes felowes and coparteners of the abundance that was in Christ first and then by him in our holy brethren departed before vs. FVLKE Throughout this chapter hitherto you haue disputed against the power of the Pope and the force of his pardons now it is time for you to coie him againe and to raise vp his pardons which you haue pressed downe so lowe Now the wisdome of Gods vicar is sufficient to iudge the causes of giuing indulgences and Christ so ruleth him in that case that he maie be moste beneficiall to his houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies the Popes large pardons for litle workes may be of great force Then belike your former discourse serueth not for these daies that men muste fulfill their penance if they maie notwithstanding anie pardon that a pardon doth not remit anie good worke inioyned in penance that if a man lack power to fulfill this penance he must supplie it with other workes counteruailable or els the Popes pardons shall not be beneficiall to them at all or nothing so much as they seeme to sound But why saie you that in these daies Christ ruleth his Vicar in this case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold Hath not Christ as great care of his holy houshold the Church in all times and in all cases as in these daies and in this case Yes verilie But Christ hath not alwaies and in all cases ruled the Pope as it might be moste beneficiall to his Church for then his key of iurisdiction should neuer haue erred nor his life bene wicked to the great hurte and shame of his Church that I speake not of his criors in doctrine which you will not graunt as you doe the other Therfore it followeth that the Pope is not Christes vicar in earth appointed for the most benefite of his Church Your principle that thinges which heretikes doe hate must be moste reuerenced is false For nothing is to be esteemed more then the nature of the thing requireth whether it be loued or hated of heretikes The Anabaptists hate the wearing of armour it followeth not therefore that the wearing of armour should be counted a religious thing or more reuerenced then as a lawfull vsage and sometimes necessarie among Christians The verie end of the Popes pardons is well known to be the maintenance of the Popes pride and couetousnes the pretended end is wicked blasphemous derogating from the sacrifice of Christs death which is a full satisfaction and purging of all our sins the participation wherof is through faith wrought in our hearts by the spirite of God and not by the Popes application or coupling of anie Saintes merites with the onelie and omnisufficient sacrifice of Christ. ALLEN Vpon all which it is verie plaine that euerie man can not beneficiallie receiue the fruite of a Pardon this at least being requisite in euery man that listeth to attaine benefite thereby that he be in state of grace aud in earnest intent to continue in the knot of Christ his Church with loue and liking of the holie workes of his Christian brethren and accomplishing at least that small worke which commonlie now is ioyned to the Pardon for increase of Christian deuotion The continuance of which deuotion that more and more decaieth maketh the Pardons to be more common at this daie of late yeares then they were in the primitiue Church when moste men in the spring of Christian religion and feruour of faith sought to satisfie exactlie the debt of the penance or else which was a common case then recompensed it by Martyrdom though S. Gregorie the first of that name more then nine hundered yeare since in the ordering of the slations at Rome is knowne to haue giuen Pardons for yeares or daies in like forme as now is vsed And cleare it is that the thing it selfe being found lamfull no Protestant aliue can euer be able
auncient Church First you saie therfore that the Pope may lawfullie graunt pardons to them that be in Purgatorie whereof you saie there canbe no more doubt then there can be of the other In deede they be both of like certaintie sauing that for this later question it must first be prooued whether there be any purgatory before it be demanded whether the Popes pardons extend to purgatorie Saint Augustine somewhile doubted whether there were any such place and saith it may be doubted of and perhapes be found perhapes neuer be founde other while he vtterlie denieth any third place because he findeth it not in the scriptures neither shal the pope be able euer to finde such fictions in the scriptures The like I saie of his power of application of the merites of Christ or his Saints or that the saints haue any merits for themselues much lesse for other men Wherefore it standeth neither vpon reason nor vpon any meaning of Gods word whereof there can no wordes be shewed including or importing anie such meaning that the Popes pardons should reach to the release of purgatorie paines if anie such were which cannot release the lest paine that any man suffereth vpon the earth That Leo the tenth did excommunicat Luther it proueth no more the Popes doctrine to be true then that Caiphas condemned Christ prooueth Caiphas to haue bin an honest man ALLEN Marie whether the Indulgences take place so often vpon the dead as vpon the liue that is not so well knowen because the persons departed be not in case to make themselues more apt to take benefit thereby then they were at their departure hence And therfore if they were not with singular zeale and deuotion so qualified in the end of their life they cannot now any whit abetter their own case or otherwise dispose themselues to attaine the fruit of those singular remissions And more then that no Indulgence is lightlie graunted but vpon the fullfilling of some appointed worke of pietie and the departed not hauing alwaies in this life such friends as will accomplish competently the worke prescribed by the Pardon nor himselfe now in case to doe the same he often misseth the benefit of the Churches remission which else he might haue had by the meaning of the giuer Whereupon it seemeth to some to be no surer how far the departed may be relieued by the keies of the Church then it is of other holie suffragies and good workes either of priests or priuate persons all which doe assuredlie relieue them that be in Purgatorie but without anie limitation of benefit which whollie is vnknowne to the liuing without speciall reuelation in what state they stand FVLKE Two causes you assigne why it is not knowne whether indulgences take place so often vpon the deade as vpon the liuing The first because the soules there can take no benefite of pardons but according to the merites of their life But this reason is confuted by authoritie of the glosse vpon the first bull of Iubilie which saith that pardons respect grace and not merite which if it be true not the merits of the receiuer but the power and will of the giuer were to be obserued The second reason is that pardons lightlie require some worke to be fulfilled But that worke is neuer so laborious as the paines already by them susteined in purgatorie if we beleeue you which if it will not serue for a recompence or commutation of penance you will hardelie perswade men that saying of such a prayer giuing of such an almes visiting such an Idoll should be sufficient to make the Popes pardon auaileable But it is a pitifull case that poore soules in purgatórie which lacke nothing for their release but such a trifling worke to be performed for them and haue no friend in this life that will accomplish it for them should lie still broiling in the frying panne and be so litle regarded of the Pope that he will not appoint that his clergie at the least of their charitie should take paines for them although they haue no penie for their Pater noster That some among you thinke the profite of pardons is no surer then of other suffrages and workes to them in purgatorie which are auaileable but you know not how much first it sheweth the certaintie of your faith which leaneth vpon such helpes as you know not whereto they will serue you Secondlie it sheweth that you are not agreed among your selues of such articles as you thrust vpon other men to be credited And thirdlie that euerie one among you being not resolued of the Popes keies of iurisdiction some thinke that the Pope hath arrogan the abused his keies when he hath taken vpon him to dzale further in purgatorie then they are perswaded he hath authoritie For certaine it is the Pope hath pretended by his pardons not onelie to release soules out of purgatory but also to giue other men power to release three or foure a peece whome they will choose ALLEN And therefore vpon this consiacration the learned diuines doe teach that the Pope doth and lawfullie maie applie vnto the soules departed by his keies some parte of the Churches treasure which consisteth of Christes satisfaction and other his Saints by which they departed as they haue neede and be in competent termes to receiue benefite by the merits of their head or fellowes maie be released from some parte of their paines but yet they will not charge anie man with necessitie of belceuing that the Pope or Church should vse meere iurisdiction ouer them that be in an other worlde To be plaine for the peoples vnderstanding the meaning is that in a pardon there are two thinges the one is a sentence of absolution definitelie pronounced vpon anie person penitent the second is the recompence of the debt of sinne remitted by the saide absolution through the application of the Churches treasure by the power of the officiers keies Both these two iointlie can neuer be exercised vpon anie person not subiect though the one maie Absolution can not properlie be giuen nor fruitfullie to anie man not subiect to the giuers regiment but the application of the treasure may be made by the keies to procure mercie for them that be not vnder their power but that is not by proper iurisdiction but by aide of request made by iust offers why the partie should be receiued vnto mercie In this sense then the Pope absolueth no man departed absolutelie But onelie offereth in the person of Christ for the reliefe of him that is in Purgatorie to God his mighti iudge there the abundant price of Christs passion and the satisfaction of Saints And no doubt for his reuerence and representing Christes person he is more often heard then anie priuate man offering onelie his owne almes and praier for the soule departed And for that cause in this sense the Popes pardon worketh onelie per modum suffragij as by aide of sute and not by regiment or iurisdiction which
pardons are ordeined to auaile and except them that lacke merit sacramentall which are saued immediatelie by the grace of God which is not bound vnto the sacraments But it were no reason you saie that priuate persons should communicate and send to the soules in purgatorie there fasts almes and praier for the release of their paine he that represents Christs person should not applie some part of the common treasure for their deliuery c. I answere wee acknowledge no such communication sending or lending by priuate persons for any such purpose or to any such effect into Purgatorie But if that were graunted yet were it no reason that the Pope where he hath no authoritie should by any colour doe more then a priuate man of the same worthines or merit And when the Pope is a wicked man of life as you will not denie but many haue beene what should his sute or suffrage preuaile whereas if he were twise as great in office as you faine him to be yet where his office extendeth not he should by sute preuaile no more then priuate men of such behauiour That this pardon per modum suffragij is agreeable to the practize of the Church and forme of pardons alwaies vsed you saie without proofe but I haue prooued the contrarie before That you require in the partie to be benefited by this new kinde of pardons not onelie that he departed hence in grace and zeale of the Church but also frendship in the worlde of such as will be contended to accomplish the appointed worke of the pardon you declare that the Popes pardons goe not as Gods pardons without respect of persons but with a necessarie respect of worldlie frendshippe so that the soules of poore men such as lacke frendship in this world are in nothing so good a case as the soules of rich men that with their pens are able to purchase frendship enough in the world So that with you the poore whome Christ pronounceth happie are most miserable the rich euen they to whome Christ maketh the entrance of heauen impossible may haue soonest dispatch out of purgatorie for the old prouerbe was alwaies true in the Popish Church no pennie no paternoster No frendshippe in the worlde no helpe of the Popes pardons for poore mens soules for whome yet the redemption of Christ is as plentifull and effectuall as for the scules of rich men Whatsoeuer the Deuill or the Pope hath imagined to deface the glorie thereof and to make the frendship of the world which is enmity with God to be necessarie for the applying of his moste free grace generall pardon and vndeserued reconciliation A declaration of the Churches meaning touching the common treasure which is saide to remaine in her store for the recompense of such iniovned penance as she releaseth by her pardons with the conclusion of the wholl matter THE 12. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now if you aske me here how it standeth with the iustice of God thus to forgiue the paine and debt of satisfaction which either God or the Church inioyneth for the recompence of the former sinnes especiallie seeing the Catholike Church doth holde that it perteineth to Gods iustice no lesse to punish sinnes with some temporall scourge after it be forgiuen then it doth perteine to his mercy to forgiue the saide sinne and the debt of euerlasting damnation Now if it stand not with his iustice to let a sinner escape whollie without correction or satisfaction then it may much more appeere to be against his iustice also that any power of man should remit release that bonde of satisfaction which Gods instice required and was to the offender inioyned For the answere and perfect vnderstanding of this doubt it is to be knowne and well weighed that in deede no release could be had of such inioyned penance or deserued paine for sinnes past if Gods instice were not otherwise recompensed and the lacke of the parties punishment supplied againe by the abundance of satisfaction made by Christ vpon the Crosse eueric drop of whose innocent bloode and stroke laid vpon his blessed bodie were hable of the infinite inestimable worth and force thereof to satisfie for all debt due to all the sin in the worlde whether it be death and euerlasting damnation or tempor all paine and purgation By which abundant price of his passion and copious ransome the Church for whose sake this precious price was paied doth not onelie holde her selfe to be redeemed from death and damnation and so saued by Christ her head for he is the sauiour of his bodie saith Saint Paull but shee holdeth the ouerplus as a man wouldsaie of so abundant copious and infinite redemption to be a treasure in the house of God to relieue her childrens lackes to release their paines to worke with them in satisfying for their sin and to worke mercie for them also for lack of satisfying for their offences that want being founde in our penance towardes the recompensing of our euill life paste may be supplied by the treasure of Christsdeath that remaineth yet of full force and strength to be applied vnto vs in such our necessities as shal be thought meet vnto Christs Vicar generall in earth other his holie appointed ministers with whome as Saint Paul saith he left the bestowing of gods mysteries For although the holie and precious treasure of Christes paine and satisfaction be of it selfe sufficient to relieue the lackes of all men without exception not onely of those which shall be saued but also for the damned and for the wholl worlde saith Saint Iohn yet no man may be so hardie to claime the benefit thereof otherwise then through such meanes as he hath appointed and by the ministery of such men as he hath placed ouer his householde and familie to giue the Children meat and sustenance in due season not as they shall inordinatlie craue it but as he shall discreetlie finde to be meere for them Therefore where this wise stewarde of Christs holie householde to whome he gaue the kcies of the treasure and sufficient authoritie to fceae and gouerne his wholl flocke where he shall orderlie iudge the offender meete and of good congruitie worthie of grace and mercie there he may pardon and recompense the residue that can not be fulfilled of the partie penitent with some peece of that inestimable treasure of Christs redemption which remaineth in the Church impossible to be wasted and so shall remaine to the vnspeakeable benefit of the faithfull FVLKE This dreame of the Churches treasure the power of dispensing of the same resting infinitlie in the Pope in comparision of a few small crummes left vnto the Bishoppes should haue beene first handled as the foundation of popish pardon if the compasse of your cause and the method of deceit could haue abidden it which if it had beene done manie a one that had seene the foundation to be no surer would neuer haue taken paines to vew the rest of the
enemie who by all likelihoode was as much a Lutheran as the other and perhapes neither of them both either of religion or of honestie These preachers of Paris most worthy not of the Locrensians rope but ofa much greater torment as procures of so wilfull murther should M. Frarine call vpon with the saying of Christe vnto Saint Peter put vp thy sword into thy sheath rather then the preachers of the Gospell whoe neither drew anie sworde themselues nor euer were authors or councellers to anie man of murther and cruell bloodshedyea to the pope himselfe which vaunteth that he is Peters successour this text should be moste aptlie applied when he not onelie stirreth vp Princes to make wars one against an other but he himselfe also maketh bloodie battelles not for defence of religion but to maintaine his one worldly quarrels not to hold his own right but to inuade other princes dominions Put vp thy sword into thy sheath said Christ vnto S. Peter the sworde of Paull saide Iulie the second shall defend vs when yonder keie of Peter will no longer serue vs. But Frier Luther is called to witnes that it was not the Gospell which the Protestantes tooke in hand to mainteine by these bloodie wars who saied in the assemblie at Lipsia Neither was this matter euer begonne for Gods quarrell neither shall be ended for Gods sake Hereupon follow great outcries but who is witnes that these were Luthers wordes which euerie Papist doth so spitfullie gnawe vpon None but Luthers enimies Emser and Eccius and the Legate yet was there present manie other not onelie his frends but more indifferent persons then his professed aduersaries yet none of them can beare witnes of this speach But admit the words were spoken in the onelie hearing of his enemies doth it follow that they must needs haue no other sense but that which the Papists do most malitiouslie imagine of thé Might not Luther meane of that cause matter which his aduersaries had begone against him or is it proable to anie reasonable mans iudgement that Luther would deny that the contention which he then maintained against the popish heresie was euer begone for Gods quarrell or should be ended for his sake If thē this malitious sense cary with it no likelihood of truth wherto serueth that exclamation O noble sentence c. the rest that follow eth What warres did Euther euer make or mooue that he should be called sorth by Frarine to shew his comission from god for soul doings Yea if at were true that Luther both spake meant as you falsty charge him had bin as great an hipocrite as he was a sincere preacher were those onely word sufficient to carrie away the wholl cause of the Gospell from the Protestants to the papists and to prooue that no other protestant had commission or authoritie from God if Luther confessed he had none See I praie you what weightie arguments the papists leane vnto while they accuse the protestants to haue made warre without iust cause But P. Frarine dissembleth no this aduersaries obiection that faith was well nigh querched and out of the Church which the Protestantes purposed to reforme Neither may we dissemble his answere Christ praied saith he for S. Peter that his faith should neuer faile and wil you saie that he praied in vaine No verilie for we beleeue that S. Peters faith neither in that most greeuous temptatiō against which he was comforred by these words of our sauiour Christ neither in any other to his liues end did euer faile But what doth that appertaine to the pope or popish Church Againe he saith hath not the holie Ghost taught the Church all trueth for which cause he came downe from heauen we beleeue the holy ghost taught al trueth to the Apostles according to Christs promis and vpon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles the Church is builded to continue foreuer If the popish synagogue host of the holie Ghost without the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostels who shall beleue that she is the Church of Christ But if your purpose was saith Frarine to reforme the Christian faith when you could not perswade the people by reason did you thinke it the best waie with gonneshot and beetles to driue the faith into their heads You are greatlie deceiued the minde maie be induced by reason it can not be compelled by stripes No sir they neuer had purpose to perswade faith by blowes and battell neither did they euer put on armour for such purpose but constrained by injury and allowed by authoritie to defend themselues Neither did they euer thinke that the vicious manners of men were to be reformed by anie other meanes then by preaching of Gods worde Christian discipline and godlie lawes And therefore to terme them but fling-braines and light Lacke strawes and all their doinges nothing but a bloodie butcherie a heinous wickednes a deuilish dealing an impietie neuer to be pardoned as Frarine doth it is the sentence of a light and lauish orator not of a graue and lawfull iudge What would this man haue tearmed the massacre of Parris and the executioners there of where not in painted words but in moste cruell and lamentable deedes more then ten thousand persons of all degrees ages and sexes were murdered in one daie without anie examination processe or sentence but being called togither vnder the pretence of 〈◊〉 league and marriage But to proceede in our matter you that accuse the papistes saith Frarine for their euill life are the worke men and naughtiest liuers that euer trode on earth And that did Luther himselfe whome he calleth the third Elias plainlie confesse that the manners of men were far more vitious vnder his Gospell then euer they were before vnder the Popedome But I praie you Master Frarine saith Luther so much of all that professed the Gospell which he preached or of some hypocrits whose wickednes was grea ter after knowledge receiued thē it was in ignorance Thé truth is Luther neither flattereth the vngodlie which out wardlie professed the Gospell nor yet accuseth al true professours for the wickednes of some hypocrites What then doth Luthers testimonie make for Frarines slaunder that they which accuse the papists are the worst men in the worlde But if anyof the disciples saith he dare deny this matter the adulterous beds the smoke of burnt houses the earth yet moist with blood theirpurses swelling with spoile beare witnes against thē These generall acusations deserue no answere except they be exemplified by particulers And therfore he calleth forth Martin Luther being readie to charge him if he dare shew his face with rebellion sedition sacriledge impietie heresie and all manner of wicked vices and heinous offences that can raigne in a man by the testimonie of Charles the Emperour Henry the eight King of England and Sigismonde King of Pole in their seuerall edicts and publike writings And as though he had him bounde with inuincible chaines of this
content to ride on an Asse the Apostles to goe barefot in planting the Gospell But whereon 〈◊〉 the pope and how be his Cardinals feete surbaighted in going barefote to preach the Gospell Although I knowe not where he findeth in holie scripture that the Apostles went barefote in planting the Gospell Their trauell was great into all partes of the world though they had bene well shood yea booted and ridden on horsebacke But if the comparison be made between the ministers of the Gospell and Antichrist the Pope and his proud prelates whether in pacience humility and mildnes of behauiour be more like to Christ and his Apostels we doubt not our cause though the triall were before verie partiall iudges Well howsoeuer it were you should haue suffered Martyrdome rather then to haue resisted and murthered other but that you would not for you sought to liue licentiouslie and had no hope of eternall life after this Among so manie thousand as suffered martyrdome most quietlie without resistance when they were imprisoned tormented and condemned by those which had power to kil their bodies he can finde no examples of pacience and hope of eternall life except all the Protestants in the world will giue there throtes to be cut and suffer themselues to be murthered contrarie to lawe and liberties established by lawfull authoritie and that by priuat persones and bloodie Tirants as the poore Christians were by the Duke of Guyse at Vassi and so should all the rest in Fraunce haue beene if God had not stirred vp diuers Princes and noble men at the request of the Queene Mother to oppose themselues against the furious and trayterous attempts of that bloodie tyrant who abusing the minoritie of the King whome he toke captiue with his mother vsurped moste vnlawfull power against the King the Queene the estates and all the realme Frarine therefore fareth with vs as that seditious Ruffian of Rome who sued an action against his enemie whome he had wrongfullie wounded because he receiued not his weapon deepe enough to death Christ himselfe the paterne of patience saide to the seruant which moste iniuriouslie smote him when he stoode in iudgement before the high priest why smitest thou me if I haue spoken euill beare witnes of euill that is deale with me as order of iustice requireth And Saint Paule his faithfull disciple could not forbeare that painted wall Ananias who pretending to sit in iudgement according to the lawe did contrarie to the lawe commaund him to be smitten and should the Protestants in Fraunce hauing both authoritie and power to defend themselues suffer the Duke of Guyse a priuate man and a straunger with his complices to smite of all their heades as it were with one stroke and not rather to oppose themselues against his furie not onelie for defence of the gospell but also for the maintenance of the lawe and the libertie of their nation There resistance therefore was not treason rebellion crueltie as this declaimer raueth butobedience iustice and authoritie to withstand treason crueltie and rebellion Yet againe he repeateth that lack of libertie was no iust cause of these warres seing euerie where they might fill their paunches carrie a sister wife about with them toule Nuns out of cloysters filthilie abuse them still he speaketh as though none were Authors Captaines or Souldiers of these warres but such licentious ministers or as though so manie princes noble men gentlemen and valiant souldiers as serued in those warres had no other quarrell but to maintaine the gluttonie and lecherie of a fewe lewde ministers of which sort yet he is not able to name one Neuertheles he saith that moste commonlie euerie Apostate Monke had his Nun at his toile and holie Kate hir holie mate Although the worlde knoweth that this might better be verefied of Clauster all Monkes and Nunnes of limiting friers and their holie sisters But srier Luthers pleasure was if we beleeue this man that his Ladie Venus court should be franke and free if the wife saith he will not doe it let the maide supplie her place The will of God commaundeth and necessetie bindeth as well to haue carnall copulation as to eate and drinke See how malice draweth all wordes to the worste meaning Luther in his booke of Babilonicall captiuitie speaking in the person of Assuerus taking Hester his maide to wife when Vasti refused to come to him hath some such wordes as he reporteth If the wife will not let the maide come and possesse her place meaning nothing els but the diuorcing of Vasti and the marrying of Hester but nothing as the Papists cauill that a man hauing a wife maie abuse his maide The other saying of the necessitie of carnall copulation is spoken onelie of them that haue not the gift of continencie for whome marriage is the lawfull and necessarie remedie ordained by God to auoide sinne To conclude this first part he saith it was neither religion nor gospell nor Gods quarrell they meant to further but malice against the pope as Luther in an epistle ad argentin confesseth But Luther neuer confessed any such matter he might well acknowledge his iust hatred against the Pope as the enemie of Christ and so doe all true Christians And if the estates of France had raised warre for malice against the Pope they would haue sent a power into Italie to haue annoyed him or his possessions there as Charles the 5. and Philip his Catholike sonnes haue done for the loue they bare to the Pope As for the restitution of Christian faith wel neere worne out there was no neede he saieth to laboure For the Church of God the seat and piller of truth had alwaies without force battaile kept that most recurently Then it followeth the Church of Rome was not the Church of God for which Christ praied Ihon. 17. To which he promiseth the holie Ghost Ihon. 14. In which are foūd so few sparkes of true faith which mainteineth so many grosse errours eontrarie to the expresse wordes of God conteined in the holie scriptures as often and moste cleare demonstrations hath beene made To be short if the cause of these warrs taken in hand be demaunded which he calleth Tragicall and cruell doinges you shall haue a short answear saith he with Mum Budget except they will alleadge perhappes the ambition auarice boldenes wantones of certaine loose Friers as though he could be ignorant of the publike protestation of the Prince of Condy and a great part of the nobilitie of Fraunce set forth when they beganne the first warres In which they neither alledge the fond surmised causes by Frarine nor mumble them ouer in Mum Budget but plainlie declare the reasonable sufficient and necessarie causes which mooued them to that attempt The copie whereof is yet extant in storie to be seene and read Now is he come to the second part wherein he will prooue that as without iust cause so without authoritie and commission they haue made warres And
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe
Luther free from all thinges and there could be no hope of reformation except all lawes of men were abolished and the Gospell of libertie 〈◊〉 home with much more to the like effect whereupon Fowler the wise man con cludeth in the margent that Luther chiefe preacher of that Gospell would haue beene king alone him selfe and of those his pardoxes sprang the rebellion of Muntzer and the Boores. But good God what shame haue the Papistes in slaundering Luther in that booke speaketh of the spirituall freedome of conscience which Christ hath purchased for vs and which ought not to be entangled with anie traditions or preceptes of men against ciuill lawes and ordinances he writeth not one sillable But whereas the false Prophet and traitor Muntzer boasted that he did fight the Lordes battells Frarine calleth Melancthon to witnes that Luther affirmed the same namelie that God him selfe did rise and stand against the estates of Germanie and their tyrannie And who doubteth but how wicked soeuer the attempt doings of those seditious persons were that God vsed them as a scourge to punish the sinnes of the rulers That Luther prophecied of the victorie of the rebells it is a fable as manie others are which Frarine reporteth but contrar iwise in his writing against them he threatneth them destruction both of bodie and soule except they gaue ouer their diuelish enterprices After the discourse of the Muntzerian rebelles he commeth to Luthers marriage with a Nunne against which he inueigheth in two respectes First of the time which was immediatlie after the calamitie of Germanie And then of the person which was a Nunne stolne with eight others out of the Nunnerie of Nimike vppon good frydaie by his Bawde Leonard Knoppen after which time shee was broken with wanton toies and lecherous recreations by the space of two yeares among the schollers of wittenberg yea Luther tooke it no scorne to daunse and drinke carouse c. and all for verie penance and sorow of these mischiefes whereof he himselfe was author Though manie men misliked Luthers mariage with a Nunne which he perhaps did the rather to confirme by his owne act the libertie of matrimonie in them that had made a rash vow which they were not able to performe yet no wise man I hope beleeueth that he made no better choise then Frarine affirmeth or that he was of so light behauiour to daunse drinke carouse of all which slaunders there is no proofe brought but Frarines bare affirmation whose bould lying els where dogged scorning here let indifferent men iudge what credit it deserueth But whereas Luther did write most vehe mently against the seditious Boores by which the impudent slaunders of Frarine are most manifest he conuicted he now faineth that Luther turning with the blast of fortune when they were ouerthrowne did write most bitterlie against them affirming that the nobles might winne heauen by shedding the blood of such traiterous rebelles whereas it is manifest that Luther hauing diuerse times before by his writings at their first attemptes diswaded them from rebellion and exhorted them to obedience when by no meanes they would yeelde to his Godlie persuasions did at the last most sharplie inueigh against them and denounce their vtter destruction but yet at such time as they were in the ruffe of their rebellion when they were moste terrible to all good men after they had cōmitted many horrible outrages yet may Luther the traiterous Cateline of our time be thanked for al these bloodie tragidies not of them onlie but for the turkish wars also For he citeth out of Stoltius in somnio Luth c. that Luther came in fauour with Soliman the great Turke by such practises yea Solyman wrote in plaine wordes but he sheweth not to whome that he wished Luther long life that he hoped the daie should come that Luther should finde him his good ma ster Doth any man beleeue these vanities yet Fowler in his infamous picture would haue it seeme as though the Turke by his letters was called to make warre vpon Christendome But Frarine saith more craftelie that by occasion of debate about the Lutherane Gospell and so through Luthers meanes the Turke conceaued hope to conquer all Germanie when he came to the Citie of Vienna beeing the key of Christ endome with such a huge great host What if this be graunted is Luther which preached the Gospel of Christ the cause of the Turkes inuasion or they that will not embrace the trueth of God by him reueiled But he cleane omitteth by whose good seruice that noble Citie of Vienna was defended against the Turke that worthy prince Phillip the Palesgraue a fauerour of the religion reformed As also it is certaine that Solyman by the prouocation of Iohn the vaiuode made by his embassadour Ierome Laske an Hungariā was called into Hungarie Austrige against the Emperor and his brother Ferdinande by whome he was debarred to enioy that right which he pretended to haue to the kingdom of Hungarie so true it is that Luther was the onelie cause of Solymans inuasion of Christendome Likewise where Charles the fift without iust cause made war vpon the princes and states of Germanie that were entred into the legue of Smalcalde as the stories of that warre and the protestation of the states sufficientlie declare to satisfie the Popes crueltie and oppresse the libertie of Ger many Frarine maketh a great matter of their resistance saying that Germanie should haue obeyed him at a beck as though the king of Spaine were made Emperor of Almaine not for the defence of Germanie according to the auncient priueliges and liberties thereof but to the vtter ouerthrough and destruction of the same But his victorie pleaseth Frarine well and no cause why it should displease vs seing it pleased god so to punish the securitie of Germanie and to shew how vaine it is to trust in the strength of men Albeit Charles caried not this victorie cleare for while he keepeth no couenantes with the conquered and against the laws of armes deteined the Lantgrane prisoner who of his owne accord came vnto him to entreat of agreement his vniust dealings prouoked euen those whome he had most aduaunced to seeke reuenge of his falsehood by meanes where of he susteined more ignomine in the end then euer he gat glorie in the beginning of those warres But if Frarine thinke it so necessarie for Germanie to be at the Emperours beck in all cases whie did he not perswade the Louanians and all other Popish states of the lowe countries to be obedient at a beck to all the commaundements of the Spanish King their sufferaigne But if the King of Spaines sufferaignetie was not so absolute but that it was limited within the compasse of certaine conditions against which they were not bound to obey let him not doubt but Germanie hath better ground of their doings then all the young Oratours of Louane haue witte to controll As
of their handes as euen at this present that vile Antichrist ceaseth not to practise against the moste lawfull and Christian Queene of England But by what scriptures saith Frarine did you conspire at Geneua like villaines traitorous to murther king Frauncis and the scottish Queene his wife his mother brethren and all the nobles and Catholike osficers of Fraunce Surelie I know not what conspiracy he meaneth I remember not that I haue hard of anie in the time of Frauncis but that wherof ensued the tumult of Amboyse neuer allowed at Geneua as the letters of Caluine to his friendes doe testifie nor heard of vntill it was on foote and suppressed The beginning where of was at Nantes in Britanie The purpose was to remooue the Guisians from gouernment The articles of which diuers were these That nothing should be done against the King the Princes of his blood and the state of the realme That their dignitie and the liberty of their country should be defended as much as might be frō the violence of straungers But if you aske Frarine how he knoweth all this he answereth by a book set out in print vnder the kings priuiledge intituled Defence Reg Relig. As though all must needes be as true as the Gospell which is printed with priuiledge where it were more reason that he should giue credit to the kings owne edict of pacificatiō signed with his hand printed with priuiledge and proclamied with sound of trumpet in all cities of his realme in which he cleareth the princes and them that tooke armes for his libertie against the Guisians and the mantainance of the edict of Iaunarie of all crime of treason and sedition and acknowledgeth that they did all thinges in his seruice and to his honour But Frarine being at Orleans in the time of that warre did see with his eies a seditious sibell printed in the name of all Hugonites wherein was nothing but impudent bouldnes threatning and weason Neuerthelesse he confesseth that this libell was not allowed of the Prince and states when he saieth the printer was kept and feasted a few daies with the officers of that towne within their houser instead of a prison Belike the libell was not so harnous as Frarire affirmeth else it is not to be thought but that the printer should haue had greater punishment Cōcerning Goodmans booke being of the same argument and ume with that of Knoxe before mentioned shall need no other answer then I set downe before But a greater accusation is behinde When the Emperour Charles was entangled at Oenipont the great Turk was requested to make warre in defence of there Gospell and the Bassa of Bude to set vpon his brother Ferdinande in Hungarie Who affirmeth this Staphilus the runnegate which neuer lied or rather which seldome spake the truth tush saith Frarine the letters of that conspiracie were taken their treason by no coloure can be cloked Whose letters Frarine by whome were they taken by whom were they sent to whome were they directed If you answere nothing we saie it is as easie for you or Staphilus to faine the taking of letters as the conspiracie with the Turk The next complaint is of abolishing the laws of the Imperial chamber that all things may be decided with fire sword as Brunus saith which is an impudent slaunder For Germanie was neuer in greater peace quieines since the reformatiō of the vnreasonable customes of that court more then thirtie yeares agoe As for the abro gating of the ciuill lawes and making of a new policie of their owne deuise which he saith appeareth by manie bookes libelles is a foolish slaunder not worthie of any answer seeing he nameth no author of those bookes by which it might appeare that the Protestants had such fantastical coies in their heades Vnto the last place he reserued the weightiest matter of all and that is their contempt of the councell of Trent in railing at all the Prelates Princes in refusing to come thether vnder sufficient safe conduct As for Princes which are no part of the councel it is false that they contemned them but Antichrist and his rable of Idolatrous Priestes and prelates deserue a worse thing then contempt that they refuse to come to the Chapter of Trent among manie reasons they haue two most euident to defend thē For the tragedie of Constance councell doth admonish them that no safe conduct can be sufficient among papistes And where he which is chiefly accused of heresy Idolatry wil be the only iudge of al cōtrouersies what should it auaill them to be heard in such a councell in which is an hundreth times lesse equitie then was shewed in anie hereticall councell of Arrianes Nestorianes Eutichianes or anie other auncient heretikes And now he is come to the third and last section of his circle to declare how cruellie they haue behaued themselues in their wars what hurth ath come by them in which part after much vain babling general accusing of all faith religion iustice chastitie deuotion learning nurture goodnes godlines banishea from many places persons planting of Turkish hethenish Iewish vnsensible blindnes at last he touch eth particulares that Lu ther by that verse of his Host is erā 〈◊〉 moriens tua mors ero Papa Thine enimie I was liuing and thy death O Pope I wil be dying attempted the vtter ouerthrow both of the spiritualtie and of the Empire by what reason I know not for I see no consequence but as the rising of the Pope was by the decaie of the Empire so the falling of the pope whose enimy Luther threatned to be quick and dead would be the establishing and aduancement of the Empire After this he reckoneth the expences trauayles and care of minde that Charles the fifth was put vnto by fighting against them For answere whereof it maie be said that Charles the fift with more gaine les labour thought of minde first and last might haue suffered them to inioie their religion according to the libertie of Germanie and not to haue made such cruell warre vpon them for no iust cause as he did Further our Orator czieth out how manie cities castler Abbies Hospitalles schooles colledges Pallaces gentelmens houses and cloisters hath this gospelish rebellion quite ouerthrowen and sacked All which damages who seeth not are to to be ascribed to their fault who were authores of vniust warres and not of the Protestants whoe were either defenders of their liberty or reuengers of intollerable iniarie It is a pleasant iest with Frarine when he saith their gospel is both negatiue destructiue of al goodnes As if it were not as easy for vs to say that papistrie is both affirmatiue extructtiue of al wickednes God be thanked we affirme al that the holy scripture affirmeth the rest we are bolde to denie we are willing to build both spiritually and bodilie whatsoeuer appertaineth to the glorie of God and the pro
15. Regula contract Serm. de baptis Chr sti Vidi August 1. 5. contra Donatistas Cap. 20. Act. 1. Inst. lib. 4. c. 19. Sect. 17. Epist. ad Pabianū exen Lib. 3. hereticatum Fabularnm ca Nouat Lib. 6. c. 33. Vide Aug. de heres haer 38. Act. 3. 4. Reg. c. 5. Act. 3. 2. Tim. 4. Heb. 11. Pial 8c Ambros. de poen l. 1. c. 2. Aduersus Luciferianos Psal. 44. Eph. 4. De discipl Christiana ca. vlt. Cap. vlt. De Sacerlib 3. Ibidem Rom. 7. Rom. 3. 4. Heres 38. Lib. 4. Cap. 30. de Sap. In 20. 10. Serm. de nupt Christ Vbi supra Lib. 4. dist 18. de bapt contr Don. lid 6. Fxternal sacraments or deined and mans ministerie vsed for good causes In prefa de doct Christ. Luk. 18. 1. Ioh. 1. a. 5. 2. Tim. 3. Cap. 9. Leuit. 17. Cap 4. August supra Num. 25. Leo serm 3. de nati Domini Leuit. 13. 14. De bapt cont Don. 1. 4. c. 1. De verbis Domini fed 8. De Sacer. Lib. 3. Chrisost. ibidem In prolog l. de doct Christ. Act. 9. Ibid. 10. Ibid. 8. 2. Cor. 4. 1. Pet. 5. Iud. Can. 21. Tract de Sacra De poen De fide ad Petrum Cap. 31. Sap. 4. Mat. 1 1. Esa. 43. Math. 12. Ioa. 3. Psal. 43. Ioa. 20 Psal. 105. Iac. 5. Origin homil 2. super Leui. Beda super hunc locum Rom. 6. Hilar. super hunclocū Concil trident Cap. 2. sess 14. Damas. de ortha fidel 1. 4. cap. 9. 1. Cor. 11. Marc. 10. Act. 8. 1. Tim. 1. Act. 15. 1. Cor. 11. De Ecclesiast dog ca. 53. Serm. de lapsis De sacer li. 2. Lib. 9. cap. 35. tripar histor Sermon de poeniten confess Magister quarto sententiarum Lib. 2. de sacerdotie Epist. 188. Super. 20. Ioannis Diuinorum decret Epi. cap. de poeniten Quaest. 288. regula conera Mat. 3. Mar. 1. Quaest. 110. Niceph. 〈◊〉 cartophilax ad Theodos. Epist. ad Episc. Pice ni Campaniae Poenitētes Sess. 14. Cap. 5. de Confess c. 3. 6. De Sacrament Poeniten Can. 21. Omnis 〈◊〉 sexus Can. 7. Can. 102. In vitam Malach. Super 5. ca. Iacob Cap. 15. In Pastorall Gregorij De Poen dist 6. Cap. de Sacer. 5. Epist. 80. Vide eundē ad Theo. dor Iuli. 〈◊〉 De vita con tempt lib. 2. c. 7. De visit infirmorum 1. 2. cap. 4. Ambrosius ex Paulino Sermon de lapsis Tertul. de poenit Lib. 3. peri archon super Leuit. homili 2. Epist. ad De mophilum Epist. adfra trem Domini 2. Thess. 2. 1. Ioa. 1. 2. Clemens li. 2. costi c. 23. Apocal. 16. Contra Epistolam Ma nicgaei quā vocant fundament Cap. 4. Ioh. 17. 20. Ioh. 14. 6. Ioh 5. 39. 1. Pet. 3. 15. Rom. 10. In suppl Nau. 1. Pet. 3. Heb. 9. 10. Math. 23. 5. Luk. 11. Hom 44. in c. Matt. 23. 〈◊〉 de auco de potestate Ec. quaest 49. 52. 2. Cor. 2. 10 Rom. 6. 23. De potest Eccle. quest 53. quod libetina Can. 62. De penitent remission Cap. quod autem Psal. 31. Rom. 3. 5. Rom. 3. 23. Mat. 18. Iohn 20. Cap. 10. Extraua 〈◊〉 lib. 1. de poenit remissi Cap. 1. Mat. 5. Apoc. 14. Rom. 5. 15. caetera 2. Reg. 12. Exod. 32. Num. 12. Eph. 4. 32. Heb. 9. 10. Psal. 110. Mat. 10. 18. Cap. 〈◊〉 Tract 3. de simplicit 〈◊〉 Whsoeuer you shall binde c. whose sins you forgiue Lib. 1. de poenit Cap. 2. Cap. 16. Cap. 18. Ad Auxilium Episcopum Tib. de sacer dot 1. Iohn 5. 2. Tim. 4. Heb. 12. Epist. 2. Lib. Cap. 11. li. 2. de const Marci 12. Lucae 5. Ioan. 13. Act. 5. 1. Cor. 4. 2. Tim. 1. 3. Tim. 1. Act. 13. 1. Cor. 5. 12. Vide decret Iuo par 15 Cap. 1 c. 2 Cap. 4. Cap. 15. Cap. 20. Cap. 21. Cap. 22. Cap. 23. Cap. 24. Math. 7. 1. Cor. 11. Heb. 13. Mat. 16. 18. 〈◊〉 Tim. 1. 1. Cor. 11. Exod. 32. Num. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 16. 1. Cor 11. Act. 5. Hier. in Cōment Ezechiells c. 20 De poen iniunctis Can. 11. Can. 11. Cap. 5. Can. 62. lib. 3. desacerdot quest 34. Cont. Pelag hypognost lib. 5. Heb. 9. 10 Can. 12. Lib. 3. Epist. 17. Epist. 180. Col. 2. 15. Super psal 37. Origen in Num. limp Hom. 11. Ibid. Tit. 2. 11. c. Num. 12. Num. 16. Psal. 84. Lucae 7 8 Ion. 8. Epist. 54. Epist. 187. Exod. 21. 14. Macedo 54. 1. Cor. 5. In 1. cap. 1. ad Tim. Luc. 13. 2. Cor. 2. Cap. 65. Enchir Cont. Epist. 〈◊〉 c. 3. lib. 1. Luc. 7. 1. Pet. 4. Luc. 7. 48. Prou. 10. Lib. 1. Epist 2. l. 4 Ep. 2. Conc. Nicen. Can. 12. Mat. 12. Enchir. c. 70 Adrianus Depot eccles qu. 3. Vide chor na Pandadalion Lutherani Vide tit de poenitent remis Math. 10. Ioan. 20. Math. 10. De ciui De i li. 23. Gap 8. Ad Eugenium 2 Cor. 2. Can. 62. Consilium Triden Sess. vlt. in Bulla cōdem Luth. Ench. ad laur cap. 69. Cont. pel hy pognost l. 5. De potestate Eccles. quest 32. 1. Iohn 1. Heb. 10. Heb. 9. Colos. 1. Act. 8. 1. Cor. 8. Rom. 8. 17. 2. Tim. 211. 3. Cor. 4. 10. Tract 84. In Ioan. Epist. 97. Leont August cap. 2. Homil. 10. de poenit 1. Tim. 2. 1. Ioh. 2. 2. Ioh. 5. Ioh. 14. 6. Hiere 5. Sermon de poeniten confess 4. Reg. 10 Esa. 57. In Esa. l. 3. Heb. 12. 8. Eph. 4. 1. 6 Ps. 132. In Psal. 132. Comment de statu lib. 1. Harding contra Apoligiam 1. Tim. 5. Comment de stat Relig. Rei part 2. Lib. 4. Edict of Ianuar 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 rel 〈◊〉 part 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prim lib 〈◊〉 Luther in duch signifi eth pure or cleare Luther M. of people Beza in 〈◊〉 Caluini fleidan 1. 5. sleidan 1. 6. Duke Moris of Saxonie Marques of Brandenburg Hebellion in the North. Comment de stat rell reip part 2. Lib. 4. Iohn 21. Epithal. Pet agid Epit hal Pont. aeg Beza respons ad 〈◊〉 Comment de stat reip rell l. b. 5. Spoile all Comment de stat Rel. retp lib. 4.
will so that she was among them baptized and tooke vpon her the forme of a Nunne whome her father would by force and stripes haue compelled to returne to the Catholike Church but he was forbidden by S. Augustine to vse such force if she would not come with a good will This maie touch Papistes also which haue and do professe nunnes monkes and Priestes yong vndiscret persons against the consent of their parentes but how it should be applied against vs I cannot see But here the notebooke was to blame to quote these places for such purposes the answerer I hope is not so impudent that if he had read the places him-selfe he would for shame haue noted them against vs or els haue added as he doth Finally he noteth it as heretical in the Arrians to appeall from traditions to onelie scripture lib. 1. Contra Maximinum In all which booke there is no such matter for neither doth Maximinus appeale from traditions neither is he noted for so doing by Saint Augustine In deede he often times boasteth of the authoritie of holie scriptures and in that conference he manie times calleth for testimonies of holie-scripture and professeth that he is wil be a disciple of the holie scriptures But for this he is not reproued of Saint Augustine but still pressed with the authoritie of holie scriptures whereof he falselie boasted and when he doth but once call to witnes the councell of Ariminum Saint Augustine in his answer telleth him plainlie that he ought not to alleadge with anie preiudice that Councell against him as neither him selfe the Councell of Nice against the Arrians but requireth that the matter be decyded by authority of the scriptures which are common to bothe partes But Irenaeus in deede doth note it as hereticall in the Valentinians to appeale from the holie scripture to traditions without the which they affirmed that the trueth could not be found in the scriptures which they accused to be diuerselie or doubtfullie written as the Papists do in comparing them to a nose of wax or a leaden rule So the contrarie to that he falselie saith was noted as hereticall by S. Augustine is in trueth noted as hereticall by S. Irenaee But Optatus before Saint Augustine saith he noted it as hereticall in the Donatistes to breake altars whereupon the bodie and blood of Christ were kept as the wordes of Optatus are You must vnderstand that these altars were communion tables made of wood and remooueable couered with a linnen cloth in the time of celebration of which in spite of Catholike Religion some they brake and some they seraped onelie for which follie they are derided by Optatus So plaied the Papistes with the communion tables in the beginning of Queene Maries raigne calling them in despite oister bordes and breaking them with as great furie and without lawfull authoritie as the Donatistes did The like parts they plaied with the communion cups of which he also complaineth as also challenging to them-selues the Church yeardes that the bodies of the Catholikes might not be buried in them So did the Papists in Queene Maries time But the wordes of Optatus are saith our answerer that the bodie and blood of Christ were kept vpon those altars He would haue vs thinke that the sacrament of the altar was kept in a pixe as among the Papistes But the wordes of Optatus are not so For albeit he calleth the communion table an altar as it was commonlie called at that time yet he saith not that the bodie and blood of Christ was kept vpon it his wordes are quid est enim altare nisi sedes corporis sanguinis Christi For what is the altar but the seat both of the bodie and blood of Christ And lest you should thinke that it was a permanent seat wherein the sacrament was kept as it is among the Papistes he saith further speaking of the breaking and scraping of these wooden altars Quid vos offenderat Christus cuius illic per certa momenta corpus sanguis habitabat what had Christ offended you whose bodie and blood at certaine moments of time did dwell there By which wordes he sheweth that the sacrament of the bodie and blood of Christ taried no longer there then vntil the time of the distribution of the same vnto the communicants As for breaking downe of Idolatrous altars and prophaning of all instrumentes belonging to them we haue the word of God as a sufficient warrant so that we cannot iustlie be likened to the Vandales that were Arrians or to Iulian the Apostata which defaced the Religion of the Christians so long as our Religion by the scriptures can not be conuinced of heresie or Apostasie For as heretikes and ethnikes destroied the Religion of Christ with the places and instruments vsed in the exercise thereof so did the Christians serue the Tempells of Idolls and all other monuments of gentilitie and heresie The Papists do no more spare our holie Bibles then we do their prophane bables They breake our tables and cuppes as we do their altars and challices they burne our bodies as we doe their Idolls Finallie it is the Religion that must iustifie or condemne these actions the actions are no sufficient trial of the trueth of Religon Here againe he appealeth to publike disputation or to any other indifferent waie of triall that we dare afford him As for publike disputation we dare if the Magistrates thinke it conuenient but a most in different waie of triall by writing their arguments in syllogismes Doctor Fulke offered for certaine yeares agoe before Campian crept forth with his seditious challenge the offer still remaineth take vp his gloue you Papists if ye dare As for the seditious commendation of Campian and Sherewyn condemned and executed for high treason where with he hath neuer done I will omitte That all heresie is beggerrie which he laboureth to prooue out of Saint Augustine and that the Maiestie of the Catholike cause is greater then heresie can oppresse we doe willinglie graunt Onely let not the maiestie of Christian religion be esteemed by the multitude or wordlie pow er of them which professe it wherein yet the Protestantes are not much inferiour to the Papists at this time but by the riches and glorie of Gods truth reuealed in his holie word wherein Poperie whensoeuer triall is made sheweth it selfe like a moste filthie roge and miserable beggar though she seeke cloakes of eloquence learning authoritie of men or any such like things to couer her And among all that in these times haue taken vpon them to defend her there is not a more beggerlie marchant then this proud answerer who hauing no reading of his owne nor any other good quality of a defender but a brasen face an heape of scornefull words is faine to scrape all his patches of learning out of some other mens notes or suggestions in which he is as voyde of knowledge as a beggar is of honor or riches The
some fault the other for sawe the seedes of superstition and Idolatrie then in sowing better then he yet are not Saint Paul Barnabas Ierome hereby noted for heretikes But for railing saie you and foule scurrilitie such as Protestants vse ordinarilie against vs and among them selues when they dissent I dare auow to be proper to them and their ancetora onelie All this while you tell vs not what you call railing and foule scurrilitie except you meane that the verie same odious termes which are lawfull or tollerable in you be railing and foule scurrilitie in vs onelie because you accompt vs heretikes and then we must accompt you to be trifling sophisters which to conuince vs of railing can bring none other arguments but that which is the wholl matter in contro uersie betweene vs namelie whether we or you be the heretikes and yet you dare auow railing foule scurrility such as Protestantes vse against you not onelie to agree to vs but also to be proper to vs our ancetors by whom you vn derstand none but heretiks Othe modesty of Papistes among whome no one person can be found that euer vsed railing or scurrilitie if this be true that you dare auow of the propertie of heretikes and of all them whome you take for such But it is good to examine your reason by which you would prooue railing to be proper vnto gospellers as you terme them and thereby easilie take a scantling of the diuersitie of their spirits from Popish Catholikes First the mouth speaketh according to the aboundance of the heart which is trew in such sense as it is spoken of by our Sauiour Christ for wickednesse is first bred in the heart before it breake forth of the mouth but it followeth not thereof that you conclude when you saie I meane a man maie be knowne by his speach for then the wickednes of euerie hypocrite might appeare by his talke which is vntrue But Saint Peter said vnto Simon Magus vpon his onelie speech saie you I see thee to be in the verie gall of bitternes c. yet was it no railing speech which Simon Magus vttered nor dissembled speech for he plainlie professed that he was desirous to buie the gift of the holie ghost and last of al it was not onelie speach for the text saith he offered mony for his march andise for otherwise his onelie words as they are reported by Saint Luke were not sufficient to discouer so great wickednes of his heart giue vnto me also this power that vpon whomsoeuer I laie my handes he maie receiue the holie ghost it might haue bene thought vpon this onelie speech that Simon latelie baptized was desirous to haue beene a Minister of the dispensation of the holie ghost to the benefit of gods Church by the graunt of the Apostles if he had not profered monie also by which his couetousnes and other wicked blasphemous opinions of the holie ghost were plainlie discouered You shew your selfe therefore to be a man mightie in the scriptures that can bring no better example or proofe that one by his onelie speech sometime maie be sufficientlie conuicted of the wickednes of his hart then this of Peter and Simon Magus where onelie speech was not vsed and the speech that was vsed was not of it selfe able to discouer the heart of him that spake In matters of greater controuersie betwixt vs perhaps you are better exercised or els we are like to finde feeble arguments on your behalfe To proceede you saie the scripture is plaine in this point what point that a man maie be knowne alwaies by his speech for that he maie sometime thereby be abundantlie conuinced we doubt not well what saith the scripture he that hath not the spirit of Christ appertaineth not to Christ. This is most true of the spirit of adoption which also sheweth it selfe in the fruites of mortification and renouation But hereof we maie not conclude thatall thinges in them that haue the spirit of Christ. are perfect so that they neuer offended no not in wordes or that in whomesoeuer appeereth anie thing which proceedeth not from the spirite of Christ as in the best there do manie things they are therefore to be iudged void of the spirit of Christ. And therefore we maie see what sound diuinitie you teach and how well you vnderstand the scriptures vpon which you conclude as followeth Now then if we consider the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and of all godlie Christians from the beginning and the furious reprochfull and vnclean spirit of Sathan and all heretikes from time to time and do compare them with the writings of both partes at this daie we maie easilie take ascantling of the diuersitie of their spirites Verilie it shall be found as hard a matter as it was before you made this demonstration for notwithstanding we acknowledge the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and Christians yet you confesse and the scripture is plentifull to prooue that Christ and his Apostles against the wicked and obstinate enemies of the trueth vsed most hott vehement and sharpe speeches and they which haue trueth on their side maie vse the like in like causes by their examples So that by vehemencie of speech the cause can not so easilie be discerned neither is your scantling right to be taken thereby Those kinde of speaches for the moste parte are to be accompted furious reprochfull and vncleane which are vttered of malice against the trueth when the same being spoken of zeale against falsehood maie wel stand with the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ. Yet are there also certaine vncleane reprochfull and scurrilous speaches which serue not so much to describe falsehood and sinne to the detestation thereof as they seeme of them-selues to bewraie the hatred and intemperate heate of them that vse them against the persons of other and these in no case are commendable but to be reprooued whether they be found in Papistes or Protestantes as neither of both perhapsmaie be cleerelie excused of this falt By this it may be gathered what railing is properlie not euery hot worde as you saie but such as are vsed in an euill cause against trueth iustice of malice commonlie sometime of immoderate zeale such as be offensiue in what cause soeuer or of what zeale soeuer they be vsed and such railing I dare auouch you shall not be able to prooue that it is proper to Protestantes no nor to heretikes For there be heretikes which not with railinges and reprochfull speeches make diuisions in the Church beside the Doctrine of Christ but with faire smooth flatering talke deceiue the harts of the simple therfore railing is not a proper and perpetuall note of heretikes Now as concerning your examples first you begin with Master Charke asking what more venemous wordes can be imagined then these of scorpions poysoned spiders and the like vsed by Master Charke against reuerend men Here except you can first