A Gagg for the new GOSPELL NO A NEW GAGG FOR An OLD GOOSE VVho would needes vndertake to stop all PROTESTANTS mouths for euer with 276. places out of their owne English BIBLES OR AN ANSVVERE to a late Abridger of Controuersies and Belyar of the PROTESTANTS Doctrine By Richard Mountagu Published by AVTHORITIE LONDON Printed by Thomas Snodham for Matthew Lownâ—â— and William Barret 1624. To the READER PROTESTANT or Papist English or Romish Catholique Christian if thou be though to all or any I intend what I write yet I will not presse thee â—o peruse the Treatise ensuing for I am indifferent whether thou doe or no. Nor would I haue so much as troubled thy Patience with a Preface it being not tanti which the Gagger hath grated vpon but that being put vpon such a copesmate I was of conueniency to acquaint thee first with three things My vndertaking then my performing and the motiue of the Second his deseruing What moued mee to meddle with this Gagger In what sort I thought fit to arrest him wherefore I haue dealt with him in such sort And first for the first be pleased to know That I coped not with him voluntarily nor thrust my self forward of my own accord out of a desire to be doing I haue other employments of much more behoof to better purpose my greater benefit euery way or if I had none pater aÌ„ has hâ—r as non sic per dere I professe I would neuer be so idle but could more pleasingly and profitably spend my time then in catching or killing of Flyes But be pleased to heare a story Reader which put me on this posture and performing And thus it was About some two yeares since as I remember some of our Catholique Limitors had beene roming and rambling in the Countrey and brake into my pale secretly at my Parish of Standford-Riuers in Essex and according as commonly their custome is that you may know of what companions Saint Paul entended his Leading silly women captiues fell in with some one at least of the subordinate and weaker sexe indeauouring to make Proselytes of my neighbours wiues Now you know their ordinary onsets with great Out-cries of Damned Heretickes out of the Church No Seruice no Sacraments no Ministery no Faith no Christ no Saluation Terrible Shawe-fowles to skarre poore Soules that haue not the facultie of discerning Cheese from Chalk Horrible affrights and mormolyceues to put young children out of their wits that cannot distinguish a visnomie indeed from a visour So it fell out that a neighbour of mine with whom in this sort they had beene tampering became not a little dismayed and perplexed with these bug-beares of great names and thunderings in her eares till it came at length vnto my knowledge what was done I let her know they were but scarr-crowes meere words and wind bragges and boastings and so setled her disquieted thoughts againe But yet it seemeth they left not so The Diuell hath a name Belzebub the God of flyes expressing his nature like a flye insolent importune pressing on though he fall off to day hee will re-enforcce to morrow though he faile to day he will assay to morrow and still hope to preuaile at last So These as He came on againe though euer by owle-light For they came to steale and therefore feared blaunchers I could not come to God-speed nor to confront them But this I did When next you meete with these Romish Rangers commend me to them said I vnto my neighbour Tell them I much desire to bee acquainted with them I was borne bred and brought vp professed in the Religion of the Church of England which I hitherto haue thought to be the truth held and taught as the truth if I haue beene deceiued and haue deceiued others I am sorry for it my desire is to know and professe the Truth to waue heresie to quit error to goe out of schisme to finde out the true Church of Christ and become a member of it and so consequently by all possible meanes to saue my Soule If then their intention be such sincerely as they pretend it is To saue Soules they may doe a meritorious deed to come and saue mine the rather because they may goe compendiously to worke in gaining mee to the side who am like enough to draw you my Parishioners with me at least to make you more seasable then otherwise you would be for them But it seemed canebam sur dis I beleeue if the relation was made as I think it was they gaue no great credit to my words or had lesse hope of their performance For the truth is the most of these Limitors are but poore Ignaroes take them out of their beaten paths they cannot hold pace Wherefore seeing I could not tell where to finde them and they would not finde me where they might haue me I thought to send after them to know their mindes to vnderstand their opinions and see what they would say to winne mee vnto their Catholiqne faith So I tooke pen and paper and wrote as I thought fit three Propositions promising conformity vpon resolution to this effect and I suppose in these tearmes 1 If any Papist lining or all the Papists liuing can proue vnto me that the present Roman Church is eyther the Catholique Church or a sound member of the Catholique Church I will subscribe 2 If any Papist liuing or all the Papists liuing can proue vnto me that the present Church of England is not a true member of the Catholique Church I will subscribe 3 If any Papist c. can proue vnto mee that all those points or any one of those points which the Church of Rome maintaineth against the Church of England were or was the perpetuall Doctrine of the Catholique Church the concluded Doctrine of the representatine Church in any generall Councell or Nationall approued by a Generall or the dogmaticall resolution of any one Father for 500. yeares after Christ I will subscribe And to these seuerally I set my name which I did to try their sufficiencies or abate their insolencies and to settle the wauering vpon those goodly pretenses of Antiquity Vniuersality and Conformity I am sure I come home to them and touch them in their freehold as they claime it I giue them scope enough to insist vpon If they can performe this I will not eate my words I make it now publicke which I then said in priuate let them performe it I will subscribe These three Propositions thus conceiued signed I then deliuered vnto my neighbour the partie that should haue beene proselyted intreating her to deliuer them vnto those her perswaders if they came again as she thought they would This she promised and at their next meeting accordingly performed within few dayes I expected I confesse some great vndertaker and some mighty opposition to purpose in points of that Nature which touched them so neere and came vp to the head of their Catholique cause
the Decisions and Edicts of Popes the inquisitors of Heresie and such like inhibitions to the contrary There are publique Resolutions held of all and priuate opinions maintained by some by men particular in their owne Conceits and Societies in a more generall agreement in things indifferent not de fide or if yet of a looser and lower tye and alloy As those are proposed resolued maintained tendred and commanded So the other are free and disputed and questioned not enioyned as de fide or Subscribed because Problematicall and no more If a man should collect the priuate opinions of priuate men which are differences in Schooles among Schollers nay of the Master of Controuersies or of sentences and impute them vnto the Church of Rome the Faith of Rome this Gagger if hee know what to doe and his gagle would refuse them disclaime them thinke themselues wronged proclaime themselues belied as Bellarmine doth often in the like case Ex aequo bono and more maiorum we may doe the like Yet see the honesty of this Imposter against vs in this his poore pamphlet He hath collected together out of C. W. B. and such companions and disposed as it hapned without order or method xlvii seuerall propositions All pretended errours of the Church of England because all contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles and repugnant to Antiquity in the Writings of the Fathers so to fasten Noueltie and Heresie and Impietie vpon our Church Of these xlvii onely viii or ix are the Doctrines of our Church 6. 13. 15. 18. 30. 36. 42. 44. and yet not all these as they are by him abused embeasted confounded and circumscribed The rest are partly left at libertie by the Church not determined for doctrines either way Many imposed by him on the Church are directly disclaimed abandoned oppugned by the Church and the flat contrary to them commended and commanded And accordingly belieued practised and maintained against oppugners A maior part are the meere opinions priuate fancies peculiar propositions of priuate men many of them disclaimed by the very Authors some falsely imputed to their Authors some raked together out of the lay-stals of deepest Puritanisme as much opposing the Church of England as the Church of Rome So that whatsoeuer is in this Gagger is or childishly fancied or ridiculously mistaken or wilfully peruerted or slanderously imputed or maliciously proposed or ambiguously conceiued or not iustified any way as may euidently appeare in the particulars in my answere ensuing In which Whatsoeuer is to be owned by the Church as resolued and tendred and subscribed in the authorised Doctrine or Practise thereof is by mee iustified fully against him and shall be maintained against his betters as not contrary to Antiquitie in the Tradition of the Church much lesse vnto Scriptures in our owne Bibles What is inuolued by him malitiously to procure enuy to the side is explicated and asserted to the proper tenents and termes it is shewed how farre the Church of England resolueth where and what things are left free and vndetermined for men to hold with them or against them Priuate opinions are left vnto their Authors and Abettors olde enough and able enough to speake for themselues In a publique cause as is the Faith of Gods Church peculiar interests that I know haue no such share at least ouer-awing as to commaund vndertaking against opponents In answering of whom to come vnto my course obserued with him which I thought fit in conueniency to let the Reader vnderstand for my owne excuse and iustification I haue gone along with him cap apee and point per point first for his Scriptures both expresse and to be seene then for his Fathers that affirme the same that is nothing to purpose as little as his Scriptures did as I could finde them quoted or could guesse at them by imagining where they mought be probably spoken withall or where I could remember to haue some time left them For our Catholiques Romish secure no question of the goodnes of their cause or rather relying vpon the tractablenesse of their patient Proselytes so they can make a dumbe shew with scoring vp Fathers doe not much trouble themselues with caring where or what they say So this Gagger stood affected it is more than apparant For I was often left to goe blowe the seeke for his Fathers For poore man he tooke them vp as hee could finde them by tale without weight or triall Some few peraduenture in the country abroad but the maior part by farre out of C. W. B. What he is I cannot tell and as hee hath them truely or falsly quoted rightly registred or mistaken so in euery poynt are they in the Gagge vnlesse worse Such supine negligence secure discoursing childish disputing in such a Master in Israel Such infant-like performance in such a Goliah vpon whose head the Philistines haue set vp their rest I speake no more in effect than I haue heard of him since I vndertooke him who can beare Beside the scurrilous fellow according to his breeding and education it seemeth sure I am fitting enough his disposition commeth in with Coblers and Bakers and Tinkers and Tapsters and Hosts and Hostesses and bottles and bottle-ale Insulteth vpon poore Protestants Out of their wits sicke in their wits Prateth of Horses and Asses praying and such like stuffe out of his Coblersshop or Hostesses ale-bench no doubt And who is able to possesse his Soule or containe his pen in patience that hath to doe with such Impostors Mountebankes and Buffones such rake-shames and rakehels as these ramblers are I confesse that subiects of this nature should aboue all be moderately calmely and quietly handled but so if wee meete with moderate men with quiet men with temperate honest and discreet men with men not proiected prostituted and giuen ouer vnto lying calumniating traducing of all that concurre not with them as this companion and his comerades are who haue no intent to make vp any ruines or decayed places in the Church to heale the sores cure the wounds mollifie the swellings cleanse out the empostumations in the mysticall body of Christ that ayme not at peace nor would procure vnity nor any way indeauour that those who professe Gods holy name may agree in the truth of his holy word and liue in vnity and godly loue but make their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their whole indeauour their speciall study day and night by all kinde of iniquity to keepe a faction on foot and maintaine opposition euen where it needeth not Such are to be curryed in their kinde and to be rubbed as they deserue in no case to be smoothed or sleeked ouer lest they please themselues too well in their impiety It was euer held lawfull to call a spade a spade Saint Paul gaue not Elimas any gentle termes nor did Saint Peter speake butter and hony vnto Simon Magus Our Sauiour himselfe that man of meekenesse called Herod a Fox and Iudas a Deuil when they deserued it
of Scripture or thereabout It seemeth strange vnto me that not one of these should fall foule vpon that infinite number of corruptions and falsifications which you talke so freely and loudly of vnto your Catholike Reader Had there beene any such thing to be discouered your charity wee know is no way so Transcendent as to conceale it wee should haue heard thereof on both eares to a purpose He can doe little that can not belye his aduersary in grosse though put him to proofe and he prooueth recreant Do this I challenge your Gagship if you can or dare or prooue your selfe a Gagler and a Goose for euer For variety of reading deprauation corruption falsification here I offer to charge and prooue your most Sacrosanct Authenticall edition of Trent in the best and most corrected copy you can choose is as guilty of at and euery one of these particulars as you or your betters can proue our Bibles to be When you will or when you dare vndertaken it shall be And this in my mind is but a cold comfort vnto a Catholike who opineth poore deceiued soule that hee may be secure and build his saluation vpon the facing impudency of euery light-skirt mountebanck and shaued emposter You do well to seale vp the truth and vprightnesse of this forlorne cause of yours with security and assurance that is to captiuate their vnderstanding with implicite faith For you know and I can make it good that let the Truth you talke of come to scanning Lucians true History will be as warrantable It is true I deny not our translations all and singular and so your owne done by your owne men differ both amongst themselues as also from the Authenticall Latin as you call it notoriously your Authenticall Latin differeth from it selfe Is this to the disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Looke you to that I can rid my hands of it well enough and cleere both our Church aâ—d Bibles of all such imputation or impeachment of Catholike verity any way If it bring such disparagement the reason is in my conceit you swarued euen from the Councell of Trent which neuer intended such a royal prerogatiue vnto your Latin edition as the Iesuits and Iesuited faction giue vnto it I speake not this to disparage it I professe I respect it as much as any Translation extant and to quite your kindnesse in being content to be tryed by our Bibles I will be tryed in any point the Church of England maintaineth this day against the Church of Rome by no other but your owne Authenticall Latin Eate your words Goodman Gagger I am your aduersary I professe my selfe I will and dare offer my selfe to giue what aduantage you can make thereof to be tryed by your owne Translation and to deserue your loue the more may happily ere long Gagge your mouth in this very kind of putting you to it with your owne translation In the interim put mee to it when you please I will not waue your so Authenticall Latin in maintaining the assertions of our Church And so much for your second point of aduice vnto your Reader Thirdly you aduise him somewhat farther off for generall affronting the Protestant in any point whatsoeuer as I can conceiue it in briefe thus The manner of the Protestant is in conference of controuerted points when he is vrged with text of Scripture plaine and euidens to beate backe the argument or as you phrase the thing to Counterpoint it with some other text of Scripture For instance when you bring those euident few words This is my body they vse to rebutt it with Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speake vnto you they are spirit and they are life and by this allegation suppose they haue put by the point of your weapon or giuen you a great ouerthrow as you speake In such a case your aduice is to shew the party amiably that this is not to proceede by order and that he dealeth not with thee as he ought nor sincerely in opposing a passage darke and obscure to confound a passage that is most cleere A man may take good counsell of his enemy though against his will and so haue no cause to thanke him for it Sir Gagger of your selfe and your owne gagle this aduice we meane to make vse of and put it home to your selues as we haue occasion frequent enough I know no men guilty of this blameable carriage at least so guilty as your selues be I haue rubbed your memory with it sometime as it fell out But here hauing so iust cause you can not blame me if I gagge you with your owne gagge Misticall passages are not argumentatiue What so mysticall as the Reuelation In which are tot Sacramenta as many darke passages as there by words And yet we want not proofes of plainer particulars from mysticall signing in the forehead The number of the beast Power giuen to the Saints ouer nations What more absurd then to prooue ordinary oeconomy in Gods disposition by extraordinary dispensation This you haue done out of Math. 17. 3. Math. 27. 52. or points of faith as you would haue them out of a dreame 2 Mac. 15. 12. Prayer vnto Saints is defined in your Creed Your proofes for that against euident scripture Psal 51. 15. are Luk. 16. 24. Iob 5. 1. Without Purgatory Popery cannot stand The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 two pillars of Purgatory are those two places of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. 13. 1 Cor. 5. 29. then which there are not two more obscure places in all the scripture Adde to them a third though of a baser alloy that intricate and depraued place of 2. Mach. 12. 44. I could goe further and gagge you Doper out of your owne practise Who if you had not so much honesty as to forbeare belying of your opposites should haue had so much discretion as not to obiect that vnto another which had you that good signe of a bad cause in you Blushing might ashame you being by recrimination retorted vpon your selfe I say belye for it is not better nor worse but euen so For Transubstantiation that monster of monsters you haue neuer done with This is my body Which we deny not either in words or sense The very body of Christ really receiued in the Sacrament of the Altar is warranted by those formall words of Institution This is my body but not per modum Con or Trans or any other like It is not said This is my body corporally eaten orally there carnally conceiued of grossely This cannot be say the Protestants and for proofe thereof that the thing being granted the manner cannot be so conceiued proceedeth thus That which one Scripture proposeth cannot bee contraried by another But this carnall sense of those words This is my body is contraried by another an instance In Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing as plaine a text against carnall eating of Christs flesh as can
what meane you by them of whom where when vpon what grounds why a rambling logodiarrhe without wit or reason Edicta Principum Decreta Synodorum And iudicia pro tribunali are of large extent of different alotment For against God Equity Truth and Honesty what an idle discourse is it thus to shoote your bolts as boyes doe stones to make Duckes and Drakes vpon the surface of the water to glide smoothly for two or three grasings and then sinke to the bottome without any more adoe Adde quantity to iudgements Decrees Edicts wee shall know what you would say and so answere As for humane wisedome that helpe on our right hand haue you such cause to boast we haue no sense nor reason I thinke you doe not find vs such arrant fooles as vtterly destitute of humane indowments If you doe the better for you You may cary the cause against vs without more adoe Customes we haue many of the better sort not all your anticke fits and gesticulations You haue not all antiquity had you haue many they neuer saw Silly man know you not most customes doe and may vary keepe your owne if you please we are not so wedded to them nor to all ours but vpon reason we haue will and may change by better warrant then you can auoide As for multitude we dare drip Siders with you old and late but these are meere flashes of your Catholike vanity I haue said it often I repeate it in the close that you may remember it the better at least you shall find that is my selfe that will ioyne issue with you when you dare to maintaine the doctrine of the Church of England and oppose the doctrine of the Romish Church by all of these or any of these Antiquitie Custome Multitude humane wisedome Iudgements Decrees Edicts and Councels If I haue not for me in all or euery one as good and better share and interest for my confession theÌ„ you for yours I wil yeeld As for Miracles Visions and such hobgoblin-stuffe I am contented you appropriate to your owne So did the Gentiles brag of the like as Chrysostome obserueth Orat. 1. in Iudai santes pag. 34. Edit Hesheâ— So did the Donatists as S. Augustine reporteth de notis Ecclesiae ca. 19. Their miracles were then as yours now Figmenta mendacium hominum aut portenta fallacium spirituum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a prouerbiall speech in Athenaeus Fooles may be frighted with Hagges and Fairies men of vnderstanding know it is but knauery At Lauretto Sichem Annuntiada or wheresoeuer we haue the like puppet playes amongst our Catholike neighbours Cachinnantibus daemonijs at such iugling tricks for their aduantage And yet take me not so as if I cast off all miracles I admit I admire them that were true for a true end the ratificatiou of Truth vnto the soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That such as would not yeeld vnto the word preached might yet be conuicted by that miraculous power saith Clemens in his Constituions This was that the world might beleeue but yet since and euer Chrysostome said true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One faith and beleefe is to be regulated not by miracles but by the Scripture which on good foundation we defend containes all that is Necessary for our saluation You haue done with your Reader and I with you till we meet againe at the next turne till then farewell A list of the seuerall errors imputed to the PROTESTANTS by this Gagger being so many Lyes I. THey maintaine in the first place that the Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood II. That in matters of Faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word III. That Apostolicall Traditions and ancient Customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs. IIII. That the Church can erre V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to be in a Tongue not vnderstood by all the Assistants VII That Saint Peter was not the first or chiefe among the Apostles and that none was greater or lesse among the twelue VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed IX That a Woman may bee supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine sinnes XII That we must not confesse our sinnes but onely to God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times XIIII That the Actions and Passions of the Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church XV. That no man can doe workes of Supererâ—gation XVI That by the fall of Adam we haue all lost our free-will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or eâ—ill XVII That it is impossible to keepe the Commandements of GOD though assisted with his Grace and the holy Ghost XVIII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation XIX That no good workes are meritorious XX. That Faith once had cannot be lost XXI That God by his will and ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall be damned and who saued XXII That euery man ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that hee is of the 〈◊〉 her of the praedestinate XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell keeper XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. XXV That we may not pray vnto them XXVI That the Angels cannot helpe us XXVII That no Saint departed hath afterward appeared to any vpon Earth XXVIII That Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth XXIX That they pray not for vs. XXX That we may not pray to them XXXI That the bones or reliques of Saints are not to be kept no vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead XXXII That Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne Nature XXXIII That Children may bee saued by their Parents faith without Baptisme XXXIV That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholikes Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed XXXV That the bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ not his body XXXVI That wee ought to receiue vnder both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not XXXVII That sacramentall vnction is not to bee vsed to the Sicke XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy Orders XXXIX That Priests and other religious persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded on holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good XLI That Iesus Christ descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the Soules of
no such allegation nor will I oppose him vnto himselfe Thirdly some goe to it with downe-right reprehension that he gaue too much vnto Traditions and therein erred which censure and taxation is too surly I like not that the ancient Fathers should so be philipped off and sent away like schoole-boyes with snips that most learned religious and most iudicious Writer saith no more then is iustifiable touching Traditions For thus he The Doctrine of the Church is two wayes deliuered vnto vs First by writing then by Tradition from hand to hand both are of like value vnto piety And this is true if certainly both come from the same Author to the same intent and purpose for writing and speaking doe not vnder or ouer-value a thing In Edicts and Precepts and Proclamations from a Prince some haue his minde his words his hand-writing other his minde and words all his hand others his minde onely and no more being conceiued and penned by a Secretary of State according to directions yet are all the Acts of his Maiesty not of a Seruant or a Subiect To this Basil addeth which some mistake and therefore mislike 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If wee venture or presume to taxe and reproue vnwritten Customes as not much to be respected wee may vnwittingly and vnwillingly preiudice and that in points of moment and consequence the very Gospell of Christ and bring Preaching to be but a bare name which censure I see no such cause to censure For Saint Basil saith not Take away Tradition and the Gospell is nothing as if the credit and weight and authority of the Gospell were meerely from Tradition but that the Gospell will receiue preiudice thereby Meaning that through Tradition that is the vniuersall consent of the Catholike Church wee are assured that the Gospels of Saint Marke and Saint Luke are diuine and true and that the Gospels of Saint Thomas Saint Bartholmew and others are forged though these were Apostles those but Disciples But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to what purpose is this for Popish Traditions Is there any of them so commended vnto vs as the Gospell of Saint Luke or Saint Marke is by Tradition Saint Basil saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that is not some things as you perfidiously relate it but of the Doctrine and Discipline heretofore and yet obserued in the Church part we haue from written instruction and part from the Tradition of the Apostles we haue receiued which hath beene transmitted vnto vs couertly Both which haue the same force vnto piety We admit this saying and professe as much let it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a perpetuall practice of the Catholique Church of Christ and see what wee will say vnto it Saint Basils first instance in the point is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signe vs with the signe of the Crosse you know wee commend it we practice it we command it we propugne it Euery Baker could haue told you so much that euer had Childe Christened in our Church Aske your acquaintance I make no doubt but you are interessed in some Bakers basket for a toste or a new loafe Bakers and Bottle-ale are so much in your mouth But leaue we you to your Bottle-ale and Baker great Saint Basil that patronizeth you suppose so much your Traditions in his Morals Reg. 12. cap. 2. giueth you this Item remember it well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wee ought not to follow the Procepts of men so farre as to set by the Commandement of God Hold you here and haue along with you in your Traditions as you will faile here Basil and we leaue to gang alone IIII. That the Church can erre FAst and loose Sir Iugler For why expresse you not plainly what Church you meane when you say that the Church cannot erre or in what things and how far the Church cannot erre Particular and Topicall Churches haue erred such may then and can euen in Fundamentals and so ceased to be any more Churches as those of Galathia Ephesus Philippi Colossae Thessalonica Those vnto whom Saint Iohn sent his Reuelation glorious and goodly in their time but now Cages for vncleane Birds But as touching the Catholique Church take it thus from me The Catholique title includeth two things vniuersality of Time and Place both or vniuersality of Place onely In the former acception take the Church and that Caetus euocatus which hath beene heretofore and which is now make it vp The Apostles their Disciples all their Successors are included And so the Catholique Church hath not did not cannot erre either in Factor Faith Fundamentall or lesse Fundamentall In the second acception according vnto vniuersality of Place The Catholike Church of Christ is twofold Diffusiue or Representatiue in euery part and member in euery place In some speciall parts in one place a generall Councell for the whole or all particulars that make vp the whole The Catholique Church at this day cannot erre in all her parts nor in faciendis matter of fact nor credendis points of beliefe dangerously The Church Representatiue true and lawfull neuer yet erred in Fundamentals and therefore I see no cause but to vouch shee cannot erre in Fundamentals Firmitas enim Fundamenti cui totius Ecclesiae superstruitur altitudo nullâ incumbentis sibi templi mole lassessit Soliditas enim illius fidei quae in Principe Apostolorum est laudata perpetua est Et sicut permanet quod in Christo Petrus credidit ita permanet quod in Petro Christus instituit as well saith Leo Ser. 2. de Assump sua If this be your opinion looke you Let vs see if our Bibles be expresse against this Esay 40. 21. My spirit that is vpon thee and my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seede nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seede saith the Lord from henceforth and for euer In which words if we did defend the Thesis as it is proposed that the Church could erre we might answer this Text doth not perplex vs. For where doe we finde Church or not erre in the Prophet it is but by illation at the most The man bragged of expresse words and can performe no more but consequence And that not necessary For may not it be said This is but a Precept not a Promise as where it was said vnto Iosua and in him vnto the Princes and Rulers of the People The volume of the Law shall not depart from them they shall meditate therein day and night This was an iniunction what they ought to doe not a promise what they should performe or at least but Temporary and Conditionall for they departed from the Law and the Law from them I◠so what assurance of not erring Thirdly Gods promises haue a Condition annexed or implyed euer to be performed by man which if he performe God is bound if hee breake God is free My words
Booke against the Pelagians who pleaded then as our Romane Catholiques doe now hath these words God hath commanded things possible No man doubteth Possible in themselues absolutely though not to vs as the Case now standeth respectiuely Possible vnto vs when they were first commanded though not so possible since the commandement For God made man right and gaue him a Law Since that hee hath intangled himselfe many wayes Possible now in part though not in all to some men albeit not generally vnto all It plainly appeareth what Hierome meant for he addeth Sed quia homines possibilia non faciunt idcircò omnis mundus subditus est Deo indiget misericordiâ eius But because men doe not that which of it selfe is possible therefore all the World is subiected vnto God and standeth in neede of his mercy So that hee explaineth his owne meaning They were possible in themselues though not possible vnto man Secondly some things possible at some time to some men though not to all men at all times And so is that to be vnderstood which Bellarmine hath out of the same Hierome in Mat. 5. omitted by this Collector because not found in his good Founder C. W. B. Multi praecepta Dei imbecillitate suâ non Sanctorum viribus aestimantes putant esse impossibilia quae praecepta sunt to wit those Precepts explained vpon the Law Loue your enemies Doe good to those that hate you Et dicunt sufficere virtutibus non edisse inimicos Caeterum Diligere plus praecipi quam humana Natura patiatur Sciendum est ergo Christum non impossibilia praecipere sed perfecta Quae fecit Dauid in Saul Absolon Stephanus quoque Martyr pro inimicis lapidantibus deprecatus est Many men measuring the Commandements of God not by the performings of Saints but their owne weaknesse account things impossible by God commanded and account it enough for a vertuous man not to hate his enemies As for that To loue them it is a Precept beyond humane possibility But wee must know Christ commanded not impossible but perfect things Such as Dauid did in Saul and towards Absolon And that blessed Martyr Stephen prayed for them that stoned him So it is not obscure what the Fathers meant by that It is possible to keepe the Lâ—w. In it selfe not impossible At some times not impossible In part not impossible they neuer came to this presumption Any man at any time All the Law Therefore Iustine Martyr against Tryphon saith vpon that Text Cursed is euery one that doth not obserue all the Precepts of the Law to doe them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Your selues dare not say it and what the Iewes durst not say you dare sweare that any man hath perfectly kept them all But there are that haue obserued some more some lesse in those things that were commanded I grant with Hierome Lib. 2. c. Pelagian That many men haue liued iust and righteous But I doe not grant that euer any man was without sinne Sine omni autem peccato fuisse omnino non assentior If any man imagine hee hath obtained that perfection Aut superbus aut stultus est He is no letter then a proud foole All that I can challenge in the height of my perfection is but onely that of Saint Augustine Meritum meum misericordia Domini The mercies of the most high are my merits Therefore wee professe with earnest deprecation Enter not into iudgement with thy seruants O Lord For in thy sight shall no flesh be iustified And If thou shalt be seuere to marke what is done amisse who O Lord shall endure it Iob neuer aduanced his perfection to the fulfilling of all that God commanded though 27. 6. he vseth those words in your Translation Non reprehendit me Cor meum My heart hath not reproued me all my dayes For his meaning is As long as I liue I will maintaine my Innocency that I haue not dissembled in my heart This I will stand to euerlastingly and not betray my owne Cause Otherwise as Saint Gregory hath obserued here Se peâ—cesse superius accusat He hath formerly accused himselfe of sinne Nor doth God excuse him from all breach of the Commandement who giueth him that Testimony 1. 22. Ioh did not sinne For it is limited In all this and yet not sinne in that sort as to Charge God with iniustice Sciendum est We are to know saith Gregory that there are some kinde of sinnes which the righteous men canauoid and there are sinnes which the most righteous cannot auoid If sins then needs against some Commandement For no Sinne but is a Transgression of the Law If against the Law then the Law is not kept in doing them and if the most Righteous cannot but doe them surely the most Righteous cannot keepe the Law This was once the Doctrine of the Romane Church For Gregory hath it that was Bishop of Rome in his Morals Lib. 27. and 7 Chapter vpon Iob. Hath that Church then left her ancient Faith XVII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation COntrouersies are sometime multiplied vnnecessarily by these Romance Catholiques to iangle the more and sometime hudled vp by confounding many to deceiue the more as in this present Question of Faith iustifying a great Controuersie And workes concurring as maine a diuersity vnto Saluation Though distinction of parts be fit to teach and giueth life and lustre vnto discourse yet seeing it hath pleased this fellow to confound these two we must goe on with him in his wild-goose race vp and downe To iustifie is a word of Christian learning onely yet taken and deriued from externall Courts and iudiciary proceedings in Cases of Accusation and Defence In which regard it hath a three-fold extent vpon a three-fold seuerall act First to make iust and righteous Secondly to make more iust and righteous Thirdly to declare and pronounce iust and righteous Not exactly obserued in humane Courts I grant For no Iudge can make a man what he is not he can finde him what he is and make him appeare so more and more by euidence and at last declare him and pronounce him so by publike sentence of absolution But for those three seuerall acts in the iustification of a Sinner the Scripture plainely it cannot be denied doth distinguish them thus Rom. 4. 5. He that belieueth in him that iustifieth the vngodly Augustine vpon the 30. Psalme expoundeth it thus Who is it that iustifieth the Wicked Hee that of a wicked man maketh a righteous So Rom. 3. 20. 24. and 1 Cor. 6. 11. For there is a two-fold state of man in this world The one Originall as he is conceiued and borne in sinne and accordingly produceth in life and actions the cursed workes of a bitter roote The other Acquisite renewed according to the Spirit vnto the state of perfection with God Of Nature wherein Of Grace whereto In Nature there is nothing cleane or pure that
be feared at your own weapoÌ„s euen vpon your most aduantage Let it be Turn vnto some of the Saints yet haue you no more but opinion and the opinion you most follow of new birth hatched first by Aquinas as may bee collected For as for Saint Augustines expounding it as Catholiques do I will let the Reader see and then judge One of your owne saith Pineda on the place Some take it spoken ironically and so it is for your purpose is it not By which is meant nothing lesse Alij seriò others take it spoken in good earnest but not therefore as aduising Inuocation Call saith Caietan vnto some of the dead let him be a man that hath liued most vnblameably put him to defend thy cause Assuredly not any will make answer because they are not their soules hauing diâ—d together with the bodies Cardinall Luther's great Antagonist was so farre from imagining any custome of Inuocation in the time of Iob which Bellarmine likewise denieth that he supposeth Eliphas to haue been an Atheist and to deny the soules immortality and what be commeth of your custome of Inuocation in his opinion in the time of Iob Eugubinus by Saints vnderstandeth holy men aliue and by Call not Inuocation but Allocution or naming of them And with him accord Philippus Presbyter and Polychronius as it may be collected by your owne Pineda Others by Saints mean holy Angels but present imployed to bee spoken to as apparitions were then frequent among those holy men either Leiger or extraordinarily imployed Angels Lyra runs another course not to the Persons but Precedents of Saints Reuolue the remembrance of Ages past as if Eliphas has said so and go consider the liues actions of holy men thou shalt finde them discussed exceedingly all but not impatient in affliction any of them In such diuersity of opinions and greater than this to conclude for Inuocation assertiuely none can none will but men like your self quiâ—us anima prosale S. Thomas alone must ouersway all because as Pineda confesseth he was the first that applied it to Inuocation Tandem sapienter D. Thomas sententiam hanc ad inuocationem pertinere voluit After all other Expositors saith Pineda he would haue it belong to inuocation of Saints Therefore put vp your Pipes for Saint Augustine singing that Catholique Song S. Augustine's words are these Indignatio quâ quisque angitur tanquam iniquè sibi aliquid acciderit dum non cogitat vsque adeò se immundum esse coram Dâ—â— vt innocanti Angeli non respondeant aut se demonstrare dignati sint qui enim hoc 〈◊〉 cogiâ—at stultus est irâ irrationabili interimitur Aut idcirco Angelos non audire non videre potest stultus quia ir â interemptus à zelo occisus Indignation saith he expounding the second verse which vexeth a man as if he were hardly dealt withall whilst he doth not remember that in Gods fight he is so vnclean that the Angels vouchsafe not to appear vnto him or giue him any answer when he calleth for them He that thinketh not so is a fool and killed of wrath Or thus A fool cannot heare or see the Angels because anger and wrath haue euen slain him Thus Saint Augustine in those Annotations bringeth a double exposition of those words in both according to the Septuagints reading whom hee followeth by Saints he vnderstandeth not men departed and with God as the Catholiques since Thomas doo interpret it but Angels of Paradise Secondly hee is not for calling vpon them for how could he if he held Bellarmine's Rule for Sancte Abraham but vnto them How As familiarly conuersing with them in those daies as often appearing and talking with them his very words either Guardians or otherwise Let it bee so now Saint Peter Saint Paul appear conuerse with demonstrate themselues to vs for my part I will speak to them to remember my necessities or cause to God as I would to your self or any other Christian for your Praiers or the Churches Thus what get you by Saint Augustine or your owne Bible I list see no more I haue seen enough already the vtmost I am sure that you can say and what I haue seen I haue satisfied already both in Scriptures and Fathers elsewhere These very places you haue named and many others I will not as you vse is actum agere onely this for your better direction or information in this point of Iouocation or rather Intercession through Allocution we do not we dare not pray to Saints that is speak to them or intreat them to pray for vs not for vnlawfulnesse of the act so much as for vnaptnes of the Agent for we are not perswaded nor can it be proued vnto vs by any Romish Catholick liuing that the Saints departed and now with God doo or can ordinarily by any power or ability in themselues hear see knowe take notice of the wants state cases or praiers of men on earth to be mindefull of them vnto God in heauen Nor can it bee prooued that otherwise God doth ordinarily reueal vnto them by any means those former specified that so they may take notice of them This must be prooued or it is in vain to pray to them vnlesse a man will hazard his state and all vpon vncertainties It sufficeth not that they knowe some things at some times in some places of some men extraordinarily for so wee are vncertain what Saints knowe what how much when by what means and so may well be blamed of folly for going about when wee may go direct vnto them when we may go to God Saue all other labour in this point prooue but onely this Their knowledge of any thing ordinarily I promise you straight I will say Holy Saint Mary pray for me till then you must pardon vs Protestants for not playing the fools with you XXXI That the bones or Reliques of Saints are not to bee kept No vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead YOu may keepe if you will and lock vp if you please in your Cabinet or Calket or where you will Saint Campions thumb Saint Garnets strawe Saint Loiolaes hayre which cured if I remember Michael Vasques of I know not what or that goodly Relique which at Denham once in Sir George Peckhams house courst the diuell vp and downe from Anne Smiths foot ouer all her body the Priest following Him with his hand vp and downe wheresoeuer the Spirit went And further take Saint Lipsius old breeches to shrine them in and the vertue that did or might drop from them our Lady of Sichem will perhaps lend them to so holy and deuout a purpose I know no Protestant will steale them from you But ad Textum as Marcellinus vseth to say your Texts of Scripture I meane As all the rest so this also is contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles This say I but what Why two things are prooued or should be First that Reliques may
maintained and iustifiable Article 32. Bishops Priests and Deacons are not commanded by Gods Lawe eyther to vow the estate of single life or to abstaine from marriage Therefore it is lawfull also for them as for all other Christian men to marry at their owne discretion as they shall iudge the same to serue better vnto godlinesse I finde no vow mentioned in this Article nor leaue giuen to marry notwithstanding vow it is your addition to scandalize the Doctrine which otherwise you durst not touch Marriage is honourable amongst all men This you doe not deny that single life is essentiall vnto the Clergie and indispensable none of your side affirmeth that I know but nonus Dogmatistes in Italiâ as Cassander calleth him Francisco Tunia◠the Iesuite It is but an Ecclesiasticall sanction this both you and we set downe It is not deined but notwithstanding that generall licence to all the Church may restraine marriage vnto some at some time vpon some occasions as wee vse in our Colledges at this day which is no restraint but a condition tendred Leaue your fellowship if you marry The Primitiue Church vsed I deny not this conditionall restraint in some cases to some men vpon some occasion they might so doe without tax or blame and so may you or wee for ought I know with moderation or discretion So the question is not Whether Priests may marry but Whether it bee conuenient for them so to doe You say no neuer at no time Wee deny this rigor and leaue it indifferent to their owne discretion resoluing that at some time for some causes it is conuenient and to bee permitted to some men at some time for some considerations it may be denied to marry Your Church for reasons best known to her selfe though apparant enough to all hath a long time doated vpon single life of Priests for I cannot say chaste and the better to secure her selfe of that state hath laid a tye of conscience a band by oath vpon them admitting none to holy orders but such as first solemnly take that vow which hath many times often filled your Churches with knaues and dunses abundantly honester men and discreet Scholars refusing such a tye Wee aduise you not to break your vow perswade not your selues so we counsell and aduise you by all meanes to keep it liue honest marry freely if you be free if not we say not to you Do as Alexander did with Gordius knot Cut it in pieces when you cannot vndo it It was ill to vow so vnaduisedly worse to force you to it on no necessity yet worse to break it securely with presūptiō butworst of all adhinnire after fresh maidenheads or neighbors beds cōtinually We say you did ill to vow absolutely that which was not in your power to performe a mischief past that cannot bee remedied must bee relieued what it may If you haue vowed keepe it on Gods name it is sinne to breake it I make no question of it which was deliberately discreetly possibly promised in things not against nature common right or reason for euen in a bond a condition euill impious or impossible is voyd and bindeth not they say I deny not vowes in the new Testament they may bee meanes vnto and parts of Gods worship as well in the new Testament as the old So Gregory Nazianzen imposed a vow vpon himselfe not to take the name of God in vaine and kept it So haue many other lawfully and profitably done doe you so and we commend you for it The Texts you produce doe not one of them speak of the marriage of Priests or religious persons or any other that vowed chastity vnto God of vowes they speake and of vowes to be kept but Quid haec ad Bacchum Your promise was your vndertaking is to prooue by expresse words of our owne Bibles that the vowes of Priests and religious persons touching single life should bee kept and yet neyther doe wee deny the one nor you prooue the other See your honesty in this also and insufficiency to performe XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded vpon holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good FAsting is abstaining from all meates or from som certaine meates the first istruly Fasting which must bee limited and confined to a time for so totally to fast is impossible The second is dieting rather then fasting and yet is that which this man principally meaneth by Fasting as speaking according to the tongue of Ashdod in the Church of Rome that is more for appearances then true substances Fasting is manifold obiectiuely as it hath beene practised by Iewes by Pagans by Christians This man should speak of the Christian Fast onely but huddleth all altogether without distinction Fasting is distinct subiectiuely Among Christians there is or may be vnderstood a naturall a morall an ecclesiasticall Fast for necessity for remedy conueniencie policy piety This addle-headed Fellow cares not to put a difference between the kindes nor to adde quantity to his position that men might know where to haue him and finde what he should say He cannot be ignorant that we commend Fasting as a profitable help vnto deuotion and piety Hee cannot chuse but knowe that wee command it not onely for ciuil but religious ends and vse it in times of speciall note for fitting dispatches of principall alloy In our Ember-weeks for giuing of Orders in our Lent to humble our selues against Easter vpon the Vigils of Saints and other set daies which we ground vpon Scripture and vse to this purpose To cause spirituall good So Scriptures and Fathers serue to no purpose being brought to proue that which is not denied We ground it on Scripture but not that alleaged of the Rechabites We haue warrant sufficient from Christian practice and direction We need no addresse to Iewish either Nazarits or else Rechabites for example and if we should yet what haue we to do with this pretended They drank no wine at all none of them for euer as the Icthyophagi of Aethiopia eat no flesh a generall custome no Fast They did it out of a politick respect because they were strangers in the Land Wee must haue a religious example to serue our turn And lastly they were yet vnder the Law the Vow of the Nazarite might as well bee pleaded and all Iewish Ceremonies for obseruation vnto Christians So ignorant is this Idle-pate Otherwise wee ground Fasting vpon holy Scripture and could adde many moe places of Fathers to be seen the true end and intent whereof is double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee anointed with the holy Ghost and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee washed and rinsed from our sinnes but it needs not It sufficeth onely we confesse most willingly the ground of Fasting to be diuine the vse of Fasting to be singular So these goodly proofs touch not vs at all Vse them against those that vse not Fasts for lastly it is our practice XLI That Iesus Christ
maketh them better Purgatory is not so it is penall onely There is no merit in Purgatory soules cannot sinne nor deserue there in the resolution of your owne men Secondly the fire which Saint Augustine meaneth doth then in his opinion performe that office when the sheepe are separated from the goates that is when your Purgatory in your owne opinions is no more for euer Thus the ordinary Glosse vnderstood Saint Augustine Wee read saith the Glosse of two fires that shall come The one eternall which eternally shall torment the reprobate This fire is to insue the Iudgement The other fire shall goe before which shall burne vp the surface of this world and shall amend them that haue builded wood hay and stubble But such as haue builded gold siluer end precious stones shal be secure safe from eyther fire And in like sort doth Salmeron conceiue of Saint Augustine and Augustine could not meane your Purgatory in Saint Paul For such as build gold c. come not within your Verge at all but into Saint Paul's Fires as saith Saint Augustine commeth both one and other Ignis de quo locutus est eo loco Apostolus Paulus 〈◊〉 debet intelligi vt ambo per cum transeant id est et qui aedificat supra hoc fundamentum aurum c. et qui aedificat lignum c. Lastly Saint Gregory doth explicate this very place of Purgatory Dial. 4. and to help you out for you could not tell Cap. 39. sed tamen are his words de quibusdam leuibus culpis esse ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est And to this sense hee saith that Text of the Apostle may be applied But Sir Gagger this Gregory the Author of the Dialogues is no authenticall writer with mee I doe not hold him for the man whose name hee beareth But at this time I will not question him for your sake though I owe you little Hee telleth vs of a purging fire Good but euery purging fire is not that you dreame of which hath made the Popes Kitchin smoke so much heeretofore Saint Augustine acknowledgeth another so do many of your owne men And this of Saint Gregory is no other then that of Fire which goeth before the Iudge Ante iudicium saith your Author which wee deny not and helpeth you nothing Saint Augustine led Saint Gregory the way Videtur euidentius apparere saith hee in illo iudicio quasdam quorundam purgatorias poenas futuras No such matter then in their opinion for the present Many trying Fires there may bee there are both literall and metaphoricall which will clayme interest in Saint Paul's meaning 1. Cor. 3. 13. before your Purgatory can find admittance there Toby 4. 17. Powre out thy bread vpon the buriall of the iust that is Offer for those which are in Purgatory no doubt For Saint Chrysostome Hom. 32. in Math. vnderstandeth this very place of Purgatory Vnderstandeth And what of that Vnderstanding will not serue our turne we must haue expresse words in our own Bibles for it else Olle quid ad te Purgatory and Buriall are all one with you or Purgatory will not appeare hence As for your warrant from Saint Chrysostome you bely Saint Chrysostome and your Author both I say it because the man you would remember is not Saint Chrysostome but the Author of the Imperfect worke vpon Saint Mathew who indeed was wont to goe vnder Saint Chrysostomes name but is acknowledged by euery Smatterer amongst you not to bee Saint Chrysostome Did you not knowe this I pitty then your case which hath such poore companions for Patrons Did you knowe it the more to blame you that would not distinguish him from Saint Chrysostome who in his 32. Homil. hath not any thing looking that way You might haue beene challenged for forgery euery way had I not found you out as you may for folly or ignorance or dissolute security beeing found out But neither doth your Saint Chrysostome that is the Author specified so vnderstand or talke of the place of Toby For Homil. 26. not 32. vpon 41. verse of the tenth of Mat. hauing expounded these words of Toby not ill telleth vs a tale out of Clemens concerning Saint Peter and this Doctrine deliuered by him out of Tradition Sed audi mysterium c. But heare a secret and mysticall meaning giuen by Saint Peter remembred by Clemens If any beleeuer shall doe a good work it is profitable vnto him in this world by deliuering him from euill and also in the world to come to attaine the Kingdome of heauen rather there in that world than in this But if an vnbeleeuer doe a good worke it will profit him heere by deliuering him from euill and God will returne vnto him good for his worke But in that world to come his work will profit him nothing For neither is hee ranked for that his worke with other beleeuers and that deseruedly because hee did that good out of naturall good motions and not for Gods sake Wherefore hee receiueth his reward both in and for the body not in or for his soule Also if a Christian shall giue vnto no Christian hee shall therefore receiue no great reward because hee gaue it not vnto a Christian nor as vnto a Christian Toby saying Poure out thy wine vpon the sepulchers of the iust and giue nothing vnto the sinner Whoso giueth a little to an vnbelieuer hath his reward but he that giueth any thing to a beleeuer hath a double reward first in as much as hee is Gods Creature secondly because hee is iust before God But whosoeuer giueth vnto an vnbeleeuer hath onely a single reward in as much as the vnbeleeuer is Gods Creature though in will opposite vnto God If a Christian doe receiue no Christian but an Infidel in the name of a Christian haue his reward notwithstanding appointed for him hee shall because as much as lieth in him he receiueth indeed no Christian but as a Christian It was necessary I should as I haue done set downe the whole place at large both that the Pamphleter may direct mee to that passage or those words in which or by which Saint Chrysostome vnderstandeth this place of Purgatory which I professe such is my dulnesse I cannot see nor imagine As also that I might deale vprightly in the cause and sincerely with him that dealeth honestly in nothing and lastly that the Reader may pick out if hee can where or how hee may ground Purgatory or if hee cannot may see and knowe and take notice of a forlorn cause so vpholden by false shews and collusion Finde Purgatory fire or not fire prison or not prison state or not state of the deceased in expiatory torments or pains heer and I will instantly professe and beleeue Purgatory without more adoo 1. Cor. 15. 29. Else what shall they doo which are baptized for the Dead Vpon this Text the Gaggers Glosse is An euident place concerning the succour which the souls
and so began to compose my selfe against expected aduersaries of some performance at least But many weekes many months passed eighteene at least and I heard no noise of those Hereticke-quellers my great Masters who cease not yet to call for disputation At length after much expectation vpon the fifth of October last the same partie premised presenteth mee at once with two seuerall presents The one two sheets of Paper written in haste not fully out with two seuerall hands The Scribe was some puny-nouice in euery point of Scrib-ship For neither could hee tell how to vse or dispose his points nor yet how to spell his words I haue the Originall by mee to shew Any man that readeth it will many times be to seeke to make sense or English of it The Dictator if yet the Author and writer were diuided subscribed himselfe yours in Christ Iesus A. P. a silly man God knoweth as euer talked idly of the Catholique Church the head of the Church the Masse Confession and Purgatory For his discourse beside some â—â—urrility without wit or â—artnesse of my Worship Doctorship c. smattered a little but very poorely and at randome vpon these points but concerning or vnto my Propositions 〈◊〉 my quidem Lucilianum the Innocent meant mee no hurt therefore he bit not Marry he had a cleanly put-off for that thus Hee desireth me at my going to London to repaire vnto Master May his house these are my friend A. P. s own words in Holburne in Partridge-alley A man that I neuer knew nor saw nor heard of albus an ater I cold not tell nor happily should haue knowne in hast but by his relation From him I haue it that Hee was not long since a Minister but is now become a Catholique In good time through discontent perhaps or ambition or some such ordinarie motiue of such Turne-coates My imployment thither was for Satisfaction if yet I had beene sure thereof For I had some cause of doubt in that which followeth If hee will not satisfie you at least he will procure some body else If he will not but what if he cannot Then from Partridge-ally I might happily bee posted to Woodcocke-walke and thence flushed to Fooles-wharfe and so returne home as wise as I went out But secondly to preuent or supply the worst beside and with his two sheets of Paper my good friend A. Pe. out of Curtefie addressed vnto me for my better Edification a pretty little whip-iacke of lesse then ordinary assise in a blew iacket marked in the fore-head with A Gagge for the new Gospell whose worship vntill then was as little knowne to me de nomine as was Master Mâ—â— He was sent with this Elogium and Inuitation at least If you please to answere this little booke and so explicate all the places of Scriptures and Fathers which are cited in it it will be a good worke fit for a Doctor of Diuinity here my friend shot at rouers I am not the man for Doctor of Diuinity I am none And I doubt not but by searching out of these points you wil be of another minde as many of your coate haue beene when they went sincerely and for the loue of God and their own soules adde and somewhat else vnto their studies So hee in his missiâ—es of October vnto me Thus briefly as I could I haue related the occasion of my engagement in this gagling with the Gagger Those Papers I answered presently as I thought fit and left the answere to be returned vnto A. P. who promised to call for it within three dayes but came not within threescore as I am informed if yet he haue come for it I cannot tell The Gagge I tooke to taske vpon my returne vnto my bookes at Windsor as meere a gaggler as euer grased vpon a greene Many idle Pamphlets in this very kinde haue I seene in my dayes but a verrier idiota saw I neuer any With a strange opinion of their owne worth are these Catholicks possessed This poore silly Creature thought Himselfe somebody and his Performings no ordinary Aduenture else sure hee would not so haue proscribed his pamphlet the Gagge of the new Gospell which necessarily implyeth thus much Hee hath stopped the months of all Protestants for euer the proudest of them dare not hiscere hereafter against Himselfe or any one of his Lagg but as geese when they goe in at a barne dore or are driuen on by night a long staffe or pole being held ouer them goe without noise or reluctancy holding downe their heads so the appalled Protestants being crest-fallen and cast downe for euer must goe as this Gagger will dispose of them My friend A. P. sic mulus mulum scabit was well perswaded of this mans performance and irresistable ability when hee sent him to me to conuert me being assured I could say little to him no not so much as bough to a Goose as for Answere him it went beyond my possibility For this set the iury consider but for Conuersion no such matter I assure him his assurance hath failed here I am more confirmed then euer I was in my Protestant profession through his insufficiency Nay had I not been a Protestant he would haue made me one through his poore performing of what he had vndertooke vpon view Whatsoeuer he intended whatsoeuer he hath said was by Him and His addressed not against Iohn a Noke and Iohn a Style this man and that man of the Protestant partie not against priuate tenents and peculiar opinions For what hath the world to doe to take publique notice of them as they are singular so let them stand or fall Salus Ecclestae non vertitur in istis the Church will stand and subsist without them but hee driued directly at the Church of England that moate in the eyes of Romish Priests and Iesuites For though he set his booke to saile with generall commendations A briefe abridgement of the errors of the Protestants of our times and so may seeme to enclose our neighbours abroad yet his drift was directly against vs at home against the Doctrine and Discipline of oâ—â— Church Therfore he wrote in the English tongue alone Therefore his addresse is to The Protestants that are in England onely Therefore he talketh of our English translations and in precise words instituteth his Refutation by Expresse words of our owne English Bibles which confine his Gagge to vs alone that are of that Church for English Bibles belong to English men Strangers haue their owne in their owne Mothers tongue they vnderstand not ours which concerne them not at all Now in point of carriage against the Church of England in his Refutation of our Churches errors in gagging vp our mouthes for defence thereof for euer see the small honesty little sincerity and petty performing of this Gagler In all Churches that are or haue beene vnder heauen euen in the Chutch of Rome it selfe at this day notwithstanding the conclusions of the Councell of Trent