and allso the same Custome as it was neuer Vniuersally receiued so vpon better aduise by Order of the Churche it was cleane abolisshed For wise men in Goddes cause haue euermore mistrusted the Authority of Custome The Heretikes in old time named Aquarij that in the holy Ministration vsed Water onlye and no Wine It is vtterly vntrue for in his Epistles ad IubaianuÌ„ Qui rinum PoÌ„peiuÌ„ notwithstaÌ„ding they manifestly brake Christes Institution as our Aduersaries do nowe yet they vphelde their doinges therein by Long Custome But S. Cypriane being then aliue wrote thus against them Victi ratione Opponunt Consuetudinem quasi Consuetudo sit maior Veritate caet he speketh not agaiÌ„st aquarios but agaiÌ„st the Catholikes whiche by Custome and TraditioÌ„ consuted his Opinion concerninge Rebaptizing of them whom He 〈◊〉 had baptised before 97 Being ouercome with Reason they defende them selfe with Custome as though Custome were better then the truth We maie not prescribe of Custome but we must ouercome with reason Custome without truth is the Mother of errour Consuetudo Initium ab aliqua Ignorantia vel simplicitate sortita in vsuÌ„ per successionem corroboratur Sed Dominus noster Christus veritateÌ„ se non consuetudineÌ„ cognominanit c. Custome either of simplcitie If ye allow TertulliaÌ„ whi goe your maidens with open â—ace If ye alow hym not whye vse you his 〈◊〉 or of IgnoraÌ„ce geating once an entrie is inured and hardened by succession and is defended against the truth For Christ our Lord called himself Truth and not Custome Let them take hede therefore vnto whome the thinge seemeth new that in it self is old It is not so much the Noueltie of the matter as the Truth that proueth an Heresye Whatsoeuer sauoreth against the truth it is an Heresie be the Custome thereof neuer so old These foresayed Places are Pro Con. This that foloweth I can not tel where to set it Whether emong those that make for Custome or against it But as I find it so shal you haue it S. Augustine in this Caseys very reasonable his wordes be these Iew. 143 Vbi Authoritas desinit ibi Consuetudo Maiorum Pro lege tenenda est Where Authoritie faileth This seemeth in some Case to make for Custome But Consider what foloweth in M. Iewel But hauing Gods worde and CHrists Institution we want no Authoritie In what steede then shal any Custome stand vs where the rudest Protestant in A whole Countrie wil crake and bost of it that Gods worde is his warrant in al his procedinges But let vs goe to an other place For Fathers COncerning Auncient Fathers we commend them sufficiently when we defend them ernestly Or speake of them reuereÌ„tly And there needeth not a Texte for their praise owt of the Scriptures or Auncient Historie when our selues doe actuall tender their Integritie of Estimation And speake many faire and good wordes of them So doth M. Iewel Sometymes Complainyng or sorowing that thei are not rightly alleged As For proufe hereof M. Harding allegeth the Authoritie of Dionysius wherein he doth Iew. 26. Greate wronge to that GOOD OLD FATHER c. Hypocrite Sometymes requiring theÌ„ to be brought furth and beleued As The mater being so weightie and not yet thoroughly beleued Iew. 23. it had ben good for M. Harding to haue made profe thereof by the authoritie of S. August S. Hierome or some other OLD CATHOLIK Doctours At an other tyme Gentelly intreatyng the Reader to consider the place of the Doctour and so sweetly leading hym by reasoble request that he can not chuse but conceiue much of the worthines of the Father As Good Christian Reader Yf thou haue Chrysostome peruse this place Iew. 269 and weigh wel his wordes If thow haue hym not yet be not ouerhastie of beleife At an an other tyme againe Vehemently inueighing against his Aduersarie as though he dyd not esteme the Fathers Which although D. Harding in that place doe not yet M. Iewel in takyng hym vp for it as if he had done it declareth thereby his Zelous Affection towardes them As I alleged the saieing of S. Basyle Iew. 169 That the Church c. The saieing of S. Hierome That the noise c. Lykewyse the saieing of Chrysostome Common Petitions c. But WHAT THEN saieth M Harding Why WHAT THEN Thinketh M Harding that the Authoritie of Arnobius S. Ambrose S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome And other holie Fathers is so light that he is hable to blow them al awaie with these two vaine Sillables WHAT THEN To be short when hymselfe directly estemeth them it moueth the Reader to thinke also wel of them As in Example S. Augustine is verie REASONABLE Iew. 14. Verily Gregories Authoritie in this case were right good 188. if he would saie the word It is S. Ambrose Interpretation 199. With other lyke Phrases To this place it maye also be referred when he craueth ernestly for the expresse wordes of the Fathers As. If the holy Fathers had so belewed Iew. 148. they had wordes and were hable to vtter it Was there no man then in the world 302. for the space of six hundred yeres hable to Expresse his name As though he would saie Al the olde Fathers of the Churche 306. bothe Greekes and Latines wanted wordes and Eloquence and either they could not or they durst not Cal the Head of the Church by his owne peculiar name As who should saie that M. Iewel is so addicted to the Fathers that if any one of them saie the worde he Subscribeth and yeldeth Against Fathers FAther 's because thei are many in numbers therefore to make the matter more easie for the Conquering of them it ys politikely done to set furth a General Exception against them except they appeere by a certaine daie which is before the 600. yere after Christ shal be gone or Expired for in deede how M. Iewel taketh the six hundred yere I can not yet redily tel As Iew. 123 Dionysius one of late yeres and therefore Lead awaie with many errours S. Bernard is A Doctour but of Late yeres 116. Therefore his authoritie We must weigh the Lighter An other policie ys to cause the Alleaging of Fathers to be generally suspected As There ys no way so easy to beguile the simple Iew. in his preface to the reader as the name and countenance of AuncieÌ„t Fathers The Arian Heretikes alleged for themselues the Auncient Father Origenâ— the Nestorian Heretiques alleged the Councel of Nice The Donatian heretiques alleged S. Cyprian The Pelagian heretiques alleged S. Ambrose S. Hierome and S. Augustine And Dioscorus the heretike alleged Gregorius Cyrillus and Athanasius and compleined openly in the Councel euen in lyke sort and as iustly as M. Iewel doth now Ego defendo dogmata sanctorum Patrum In Con. Chalc. Act. 1. Ego illorum habeo testimonia noÌ„ obiter nec in traÌ„scursu
Wherefore did you mone this question whether within six hundred yeares after Christ any Communion was ministred vnto the people vnder one kind did ye it not to this end that you might conclude there vpon if no man woulde aunswer you that Christes Institution is now broken of the Catholikes which minister otherwise then they did in the Primitiue Churche Ergo the marke which you loke vnto is Christes Institution which to proue to be with vs or against vs we therefore consider the doinges of the Primitiue Church And because exaÌ„ples are fouÌ„d eneÌ„ in y e age such records as your self dare not yet deny by which we know y e receauing vnder one kind was many times vsed we coÌ„clude in y e principal y t it is not against Christes Institution to receaue vnder one kinde Do you deni y e coÌ„sequeÌ„t How caÌ„ you which haue so appeled to the primitiue Church as though you wold be coÌ„teÌ„t quiet if good testimonies of that time could be alleged againste you What say ye theÌ„ to y e AntecedeÌ„t ye coÌ„fesse it in plain words y e some receaued then vnder one kind Iew. 132. saying Neither did I deny that euer any one maÌ„ receued the CoÌ„munioÌ„ in one kind But yet you reply it was an abuse I here you wel But that is another question The. viij shift And it is another shift also much fouler theÌ„ any of the fornamed Remember your self M. Iewel I pray you and let vs conclude our matters in order The first question should haue bene â–ª VVhether Christes Institution doth stand with receauing vnder one kinde The first w t you but the second rather w t vs is whether any Communion was then ministred vnto the people vnder one kinde We proue you coÌ„fesse y â— some hath hen ministred Ergo it is time ye yeld subscribe A iij. question now if you wil shal be whether it were an abuse in y e primi tiue Church to receue vnder one kind And so furth in many other according to the circumstancies of Persons time and places But before we come to theÌ„ do you in the meane time as you promised for we haue proued y t which you denied Either yelde or take better hold fast and begin again If you striue say ye meÌ„t y t it was not OPENLY receiued vnder both kinds ORDINARIly ThaÌ„ what a trifâ—er or wraÌ„gler be you to chaleÌ„ge vs about circuÌ„staÌ„ces before we wer agreed vpoÌ„ y e substaÌ„ce of y e mater yet if you wil nedes haue OPENLY w t his felowes put in theÌ„ begin again speak more plainly for as ye haue proponed y e mater ye ace ouercoÌ„me And yet before ye begin w t those ciruÌ„staÌ„ces I warn you it wil be to no purpose because our selues may confesse vnto you y t we caÌ„ not gaine say it you shal coÌ„clude nothing against vs by it For y e churches cause is sufficieÌ„tly defeÌ„ded if receiuing vnder one kind may be proued by any auÌ„cieÌ„t exaÌ„ple w tout any exception made by you Thus it may be againe sene how M. Iew. speaketh in all this second Article to no purpose if he make the question so circumstantiall as he hath labored to haue it On the other syde the Catholike cause is sufficientlye defended both by our owne witnesses and by confession of our Aduersaries because it is proued sundry wayes that receauing vnder one kind was knowen and vsed in the Primitiue Churche and therefore vndoubtedly it is not repugnant to Christes Institution The third Article â‚ COncerning this question of the Common Prayers whether in the sixe hundred yeres after Christ they wert in a strange tonge which the People did not vnderstand what can any Catholik of these partes of the world say more then that they were in the Greeke tounge or Latine tounge only For whereas neither Authoritye of Scripture coÌ„maundeth it neither veritie of Tradition confirmeth it neither report of Historie witnesseth it neither yet any Token or Memorie signifieth it that the Publike Seruice of the Churche Easte or Weaste was within the compasse of the first six hundred yeres in any other tounge then Greeke or Latine what lightnesse muste it be to forsake the orders which we haue and take others I can not tell what 1. Cor. 14. The Apostle maketh an expresse distinction betwene the Idiote and him that supplieth the place It is no wisedome to chauÌ„ge that We haue for an other thing no maÌ„ is sure What. Of the Idiote concerning the Common Prayers he geueth no precept of the other he sayeth how shall he that supplieth the place of the Iâ—iote answer Amen vpon thy blessing Now by Tradition we haue receaued no other but Latine or Greeke Seruice Of the change of the vulgar touÌ„ge into any of these two Greek or Latin or of setting vp of these in stede of the knowen and vulgar tounge there is no mention in any writer And laste of al ther can be shewed no token or sufficient similitude that the Seruice of old tyme was in the vulgar tounge Ergo how should a reasonable man condemne that whiche hym selfe seeth so generally vsed and folowe another vnknoweÌ„ manner to which he is vncertainely referred S. Augustine saieth it but of Ceremonies August ad Ianuar ep 118. that If the whole Church throughout the world doe obserue any thing to dispute thereof it is a point of most insolent madnes And if it be so in ceremonies is it not much more so in publike Seruice For in Ceremonies because of indifferencie of theÌ„ in them selues and infirmity of some persoÌ„s which be ouer curiouse against them manie poyntes might be reasoned vpon and If manifest neede require be omitted Yet If the whole Church vse them there ought to be no question But in publike Seruice which perteyneth to the state of the Church and in which the mouing of any dout causeth the whole Religion to be shaken how is it to be suffered that she should be apposed Or that any Priuate persons without reason or authority shuld cal that into question which is generally receaued The Heretikes of this age say that the Latine Seruice for example in all the West Churche hathe not come frome the six hundred yeres after Christe Frome whence came it then Who were the planters of it Who were the mainteyners If they did it w t consent of al the Weast CouÌ„tries that is a great preiudice against your contentionsnesse How unlikely If they did it by force or violence would no man complaine of it presently Or put it in writing for instruction of the posteritie Surely this can not be but a great wonder y t the CoÌ„mon Seruice of the West Church was not generally in Latine euery where at y â— begynning And that so many thousand Churches in so many seuerall and diuerse Countries thereof should altogether most faithfully hold and kepe the same And no man yet tell
of what begynning But what should a Catholike be trobled in his mind or geue eare to Peekers of quarells If the iust and quiet Possessours of Auncient and good Landes should be made to bring foorth Euidencies and either answer to all demaundes whiche it pleaseth the Aduersarie to moue or ells to be quyte and cleane thrust out of all without any further iudgmeÌ„t would it not be accompted so vnreasonable and iniuriouse that no wise man or honest man could alowe it or suffer it What cause then is there why the troblers of quyet possessouts in Religion should be praysed and houoreâ— as ghostly Sâ—ruâ—yers I trow of all Christendome How hold you this quod he Mary what is that to thee Thou seest I hold it Yea but how came you by it Firste who gaue you the authority to aske me that question Then spare not Enchroching and busy heretikes but lay it to my charge if thou hast any euidence against me It was not so in the Primitiue Church Yes forsooth was it Bring me then sayeth he any sufficient authority of Doctor or Councell Folish felow wilt thou put me to my proofes which am in possessyon and haue long dwelt here as it can not be denied thy self being not able to shew from whence I had it except it were of the first Lordes and Patrones What right I haue the same I haue receiued And those that deliuered it to me toke it of others before them And they againe receiued it of their forefathers Neither canst y u proue any chaunge of Titles to haue come in betwene from the first Apostles Fathers to their children which now do liue Is it not therfore a sufficient defence to vs that thou canst not deny but the West Church doth vse and hath for hundred of yeres together spokeÌ„ Latiu generally in her Seruice and art not able to shew where she euer vsed English Dutch French or Spanish Thy silence in this question doth answer for vs. And it should be a demonstration to all reasonable men that vndoubtedly the publike Seruice here in the Weast was in Latin from the beginning TrafitioÌ„ for the 〈◊〉 because no other beginning therof can be shewed nor the ceasing of those vulgare Tongues which as M. Iewel getteth were once vsed can any where be found or espied Thus much should and would be said if the right way might be alowed But now present possession maketh nothing And therfore is D. Harding constrained to folow y e pleasure of y â— Extorciotier to proue that to be ours of auncient ryght y e long possession wherof without any disturbaÌ„ce coÌ„cludeth it to be our right Wherein though he hath done very well yet he bringeth nothing but M. Iewel turneth it to a gesse a likelihode a coniecture Which phrases are so common wyth him through all this Article as though he would admit no Authority or Argument but such as is taken out of the Scriptures or such as should be so euident and inuincible that he could haue no power to answer them His Phrases are these M. Harding is not able to proue this with all his gesses Iewel Againe 160 The Minor he warranteth but by a gesse only 166 Againe Reply is made and that by gesses and likelihods 180 Againe This gesse standeth vppon two poyntes And so in other places moe For this cause that it may be perceiued whether he allso vseth not Gheasses that he may learn in time to be good to others when he is fauorable to him selfe before I speake of D. Hardinges reason let vs a while hold our peace and put M. Iewel to answering Tel vs I pray you Sir for truths sake you which are so well seene in Antiquities and can appose and presse others so ernestly with obscure questions about the Primitiue Church Is it not reason that you geue better instructions which finde fault with the Catholikes opinions And iâ— the iudgment and answere of the whole Church that now is can not satisfye you should you with any conscience require your opinion to be receiued except ye bring Demonstrations for it Tell vs therfore I beseeche you without Gesses Coniectures and Like lihodes which you can not away withall was the publike Seruice of the Churche within the six hundred yeares after Christ Harding Pol. 74. in the Syriacal or Arabike in the AEgiptian AEthiopian Persian ArmeniaÌ„ ScythiaÌ„ FreÌ„ch or Britain tounge Here you may answer vnto vs This is no indifferent dealing Iew. 165 And again Sodainly he altereth the whole state of the cause and shifteth his handes and requireth me to shew But that it may appeare you deale plainly and seeke nothing but truthe Answer I pray you throughly and directly In one example or two you are content but why not in examples for all For the Syriacal tounge you speake the moste but why bring you not somewhat for eche of the other You will refer the rest to an other place vnto which straighte waits we will folowe you but presently thus you say At Paulaes funerall all the multitude of the Citye of Palestine met together Hierony mus in Epitaphio Pan 〈◊〉 The Psalmes were songe in order in Hebrewe Greeke Latine and Syrian tonge Well here in dede is mention of the Syrian Tounge and of Psalmes song in it But how proue you these Psalmes to infer the CoÌ„mon Seruice in the same tounge For by Psalmes I vnderstand Hymnes Songes and Praises made to the houor of God and memorie of S. Paula For Theodoretus reporteth as you beare me Lib. 4. cap. 10. witnesse that Ephrem made Hymnes and Psalmes in the Syrian tounge And that the same were songe at the solemne Feastes of Martyrs Lib. 4. ca. 29. Iew. 157 All Psalmes therefore were not the Psalmes of Dauid for Ephrem made new of his owne and the synginge of Psalmes at Paulaes funerall Here beginneth M. Iew. with his â—â—sses proue not but by Gheasse that they were part of the Common Seruice And therefore though ye haue brought foorth a place where mention is made of Psalmes in the Syrian tounge yet doe ye not satisfie our demauÌ„d and expectation whiche aske of Publike Seruice and looke to be playnly and euidently answered Ye adde vnto this a testimonie out of S. Augustine where he willeth the priestes to correct the errors of theyr Latine speache That the people vnto the thinge they playnly vnderstand may say Amen And what of this Iew. 156 This say you of S. Augustine seemeth to be spoken generally of all Tounges To whome seemeth it To your self I thinke and your cumpanie only An other gesse of M. Iew. And if to any other besyde it should likewise seeme so yet Seeming hangeth but vpon Gheasses and lykelihoodes And therefore is neither to be vsed of you which are to resolute to allege them neither to be named against vs which seeke now after your Euidences and perfect Instructions and must
either of Idle heades for their fantasy or by Aduersaries for some Anger Or of Gentlemen merchantes for their pleasure or of men right vvorshipfull vpon sad reporte made vnto them But yet vvhat is any of these vnto the question whether in the six hundred yeares after Christ there wer any Sole Receauing or Receiuing vnder both kinds And so furth in any other of the Challengers Articles nothing at all vndoubtedly For be they true be they false because vve vvil not spend much time about it they concerne priuate mennes Conditions and not the Catholike Religion And they are as it vvere a spotted Cote vpon a Reasonable mannes backe but they proue not that he hath no Reason at all vvhich vveareth the Cote VVherfore it becometh not vs so basely to thinke of their iudgements that consider of our Bokes that because of the Authors small fauor the boke it selfe should be out of fauor or because the person is Condemned that immediatly the Boke is ansvvered Some cause therfore vndoubtedly there is in the Bokes thēselues for vvhich they are misliked But vvhat is that Is it for the Vntruthes sake vvhich are conteined in them Is it for the Wreasting and Racking of the Scriptures Is it for misalleging Iewel in his Preface to the Reader misconstrueing corrupting or altering the holy Fathers c. These thinges in deede are directly obiected to D. Harding by M. Ievvel but I trovv the Serche is not therefore apoynted that no Ansvver should come in against them Yet except this only be the cause vvherfore els is the bringing in of them so daungerous Is there any thing in them against the Obedience and Fidelitie due to a Soueraigne Is there any one blast in them against the Gouernment of vvomen Do they moue the Cōmons to take vveapons against the Nobilitie Or doe they instruct the Nobilitie hovv to let the Commons of their libertie In one vvord to speake it doe vve meddle vvith the proper maters of VVeastminster Ilaule Parleament house or Cyuile Policie and not only intreat of Articles proponed in Scholes meete for Conuocations and Generall to all Christendome Take for exāple any one vvhat so euer you vvil of the Articles proponed by M. Ievvel He denyeth vve affirme He contrarieth vs vve againe resist him Before any man encountred vvith hym he Raigned in peace and vvas Magnified It vvas thought no man vvas euer hable to matche him and therefore for very despair of any succour many submitted them selues vnto him But novve sense there haue ben found vvhich haue met vvith him it is perceaued that he had no certaine victorye And if it seemed so before yet novve the battle beginning a freshe there is sturred vp a closer attention in euery mannes minde to marke hovv truely it is fought And in marking diligently he is novve and then found to be iustly noted of Hypocrisy Foly Heresy and other faultes Novv they vvhich read not the Bokes can not marke so muche Yet they also of others that haue reader and considered may lerne It cummeth then at length to the knovvledge of many And the very nature of Truthe or dispositions of men so geuing it many are confirmed many are vvarned many are troubled euery one is moued Some see it manifestly M. Iewel is cōfuted other looke not so narovvly but say I will better thinke of these matters Other be lothe to chainge their opinion and are grieued to heare of ought sayed against him So that somevvhat is vvrought I think in euery man one vvay or other about these matters This by likelihode then is the Sedition vvhich our Bokes are said to moue They confirme some in the Truthe that they be not lightly remoued from it They direct other vnto the Truthe that they pretend not lacke of Instruction they confounde and confute other by the Truthe that they may take lesse pride in their Chiualry and they sturre vp a General attention to marke on vvhose side the Truthe shall stand and vvho shall most Faithfully behaue himselfe in the mater Are the Authors then of this maner of Sedition ▪ to be punished Or the bokes by vvhich Lies Deceiptes and Heresies be detected are they to be condemned If Protestantes may be suffered to vvryte as largely as they vvill shall they be permitted allso to vvryte as falsely as they vvill Or if no Priuilege be it neuer so Speciall doth license them to print any Slaunders or Lies yet if aftervvardes they be found out and marked in theyr Bokes may no man freely tell them of it but he shall incurre the daunger of the Lavv and further displeasure Surely this case is very hard to call first into Question those Truthes of vvhiche the Catholike Church vvoulde haue no doubt feared And then to graunt the Protestāt such fauour that he might allvvaies denye and still driue the Catholike to proue And further as longe as the Catholike made a stay of yelding so much to his Aduersary to dravv that to an Argument of a vveake cause and a faint hart and to incline to the nevve Gospellers side And novv last of all vvhen the Catholikes ansvver them and so ansvver that they make the other euery day more and more to be taken in their craft and heresy novv I say to forbid the Catholikes to Ansvver for themselues Or to speake any more against such faultes as they finde this surely is a case very strainge and hard So hard vndoubtedly that vvhat to ansvver vnto it vve can not tell For if our Aduersaries vvill haue the matter tried by Lerning our Diuinitie the end shall declare it is much truer than theirs but if they vvill novve defend themselues by force of Authoritye One extraordinary Argument made by a nevve and freshe Sercher shall more dissvvade then a vvhole shiplode of our Bokes can moue vvhen the reading of them it taken avvay But is it not possible to finde fauoure in his sight vvhich hath the Ordering of these matters committed vnto him Yeas verely possible inoughe if the Suer for it be notus Pontifici and fauored of the Superintendents Louanians then must holde their peace but the Apology of England I trovv may be heard VVhy vvhat sayeth it Mary for men to be carelesse what is spokē by them and their owne mater c. is the part doubtlesse of dissolute and Rechlesse persons The Apology of England and of them which wickedly winke at the Iniuries done vnto the name of God Againe Al Lawes and Natures owne voyce doe commaund vs to defend our owne Cause and Innocencye Againe The Auncient Christians c. put vp Supplications and made meanes to Emperours and Princes that they might defend themselues and their felowes in open Audience Loe hovv vvell the makers of that Apology could speake for themselues and hovv vvell it serueth our purpose at this present Yet the Oddes is exceding great For the Catholikes hauing continued time out of minde in a consent and certaintye of theyr Faith might vvell take
call sayth M. Iewel priuate Masse yea allthoughe the whole parishe be present Ergo this terme so taken is not in the proper bokes scholes of Catholikes but is alltogether of the deuise of Protestantes To what ende is the mouinge of this question aboute priuate Masse Or what hath any Diuine to doe with it The conclusion is that if it can be proued M. Iewell is content to yeld and subscribe But what if it can not be proued Forsoothe then is M. Iewel I trowe a true man of his worde Is this all And hath this great fighting and writinge on bothe sydes no further end but to the commendation or dispraise of one man and hym not so wonderfull No truly it is not for the lerned or studiouse so to doe suche specially as haue or take charge of religion but rather to direct all theyr oppositions and answers vnto that end by whiche somewhat may be concluded either duly to the honor of God or profitably to the defense of the Church Haue both sydes then done so for theyr part That now is to be considered First concerninge the Catholike he goeth directly to some purpose and bringeth the question vnto that state in whiche the aduersarie is so answered that the Churche also is defended The Protestant he at the beginninge seemed also to meane playnlye but nowe he hath brought the question vnto suche pointes as by whiche neither his aduersarie is any thinge hurted nor the Churche whiche he impugnethe any thinge touched By whiche it appeareth the one to haue labored to some end the other to haue craked to no purpose As in example D Harding conceyueth the matter thus If priuate Masse in respect only of that it is priuate Maior after your meaning be reproueable Hard. 39 it is for y e single Communion that is to say for y t the Priest receiueth the Sacrament alone But the single Communion is lawfull Minor yea good and godly Ergo the priuate Masse Conclu in this respecte that it is priuate is not reproueable It followeth then that Christes institution is not broken The Catholike resoneth to some purpose when the Priest receiueth alone And consequently the Catholike Churche is not to be condemned for allowing that manner of receiuyng Thus hath D. Harding and euery other Catholike learned to referre his reasoning to some purpose that others may be edifified by it But nowe on the other side what say you M. Iewel to the matter what importe you wyth all your preparaunce Whome prouoke you What cōclusion seke ou you aske a question of priuate Masse whether any suche were six hundred yeres after Christ A straunge question vnto Catholikes and therfore you muste expounde your meaning vnto vs. 1. I demaund say you of the open Church Ie. p◠59 2. I demaund of Priestes 3. I demaunde of the Masse 4. I demaund of the right vse of the holy supper that ought to stand 5. I demaund of the vsage that thē was ordinary Fiue greate demaundes and somewhat terrible vnto the vnskilful as a visarde vnto a childe that can not iudge what is within it But marke M. Iew els greate a doe about nothyng good Reader how litle he shal make of them Let me grauut vnto you M. Iewel that I can not proue any priest to haue SAIDE MASSE ORDINARILY in OPEN CHVRCH and to haue receiued alone What inferre you herevpon Or how doth this further your procedings or disproue the present doings of the Catholike Church This sure is an idle question which maketh so much a doe about that which the contrary syde maye graunt without any preiudice to the cause For concerning the first Christes institution may be fulfilled in priuate houses The second women boyes and lay mē are christen soules aud proue that Christes iustitution is not broken if they be allowed to receiue alone As for the third I answer that your questiō was not of Masse but of priuate Masse And if you wil make the question of Masse tell vs of it and you shall be prouided for To the fifth that which may be but ouer done well nedeth not many repetitions of the same to proue that it is lawfull Only now therfore the fourth demaund doth remaine to be discussed which is of the right vse of y e holy supper To which our auswer is that he vseth it rightlye which receiueth it with faithe hope and charitye But as for receiuing alone or with companye the Catholike Church acknowledgeth her selfe to be therin at liberty to vse either the one or the other manner Vpon this question whiche in deede is the proper of your firste article if you dare openlye encounter with vs then are you come to the same state of controuersy to whiche all Catholikes haue brought it Neither can you complain that he swarueth from that he hath taken in hand Iew. 5◠But if ye will not reason about sole receiuing but stande vpon your circumstancies and demanndes nothinge substantiall then doe I answer as I did before that I can not proue priuate Masse after suche solemne maner as you require that I meane it was ORDINARY and in OPEN CHVRCHES contenting my selfe with this that although by euident example I find not it was so yet by moste necessary principles I can proue that it might haue bene so And further reioysing in this that although I do yelde in your demaundes vnto you the fourthe only excepted which only is worth the asking and in which you be sufficientlye answered yet you may not loke that the Ladies of Israell with their Lutes and Timbrels will receiue you in triumphe because with all your strokes hitherto you haue hurted no body Your questions therfore M. Iewel being altogether so vain and fruteles y t they neither touch vs nor profite you let vs returne vnto D. Hardinges argument or resolution to geue therby vnto the indifferent Reader The true state of y e question aboute priuate masse the true meaning of this first Article and to put before him y e Catholike beliefe of the Church in this matter The state of the question as Catholikes haue conceiued it is comprehended in this one foresaid argument If priuate Masse Maior in respect only of that it is priuate be reprouable it is for the single Communion But single Communion is not reproueable Minor Ergo priuate Masse in this respecte that it is priuate Conclu is not reproueable This argument is good The profe of the cōsequēce in this argument and holdeth of that common rule A destructione consequentis ad destructionem antecedētis That is to make it plaine when we make a conditionall or double proposicion the deniall of the former parte dothe well folowe vpon the deniall of the later As in example If M. Iewel be a lawfull Bishop this is the former parte he was duelye consecrated this is the later part And bothe these ioyned together do make one Proposition Take away
Gloriouse caÌ„ not be fouÌ„d neither in Churches nor Chappels nor in secret Oratories nor in Priuate howses in Towne or Citie but must be sought out in some Petie parish in the couÌ„trie and that by coniecture only To this effect then cometh the first article M. Iewel dalieth stil y t D. Harding she weth not any Priuate Masse that is by his interpretatioÌ„ where any Priest SAID masse ORDINARILI in OPEN CHVRCH and receaued alone D. Harding proueth Priuate Masse that is to say single Communion or Sole receauing Of M. Iewels mening no purpose foloweth For wheÌ„ it is graunted for example that we are not able to proue against him with all those Circumstances what is his cause the better for it Of D. Hardinges conclusion this commoditie groweth that sole receauing is allowable by the crample and Testimonies of the Primatiue Church Ergo it standeth well with Christes institution Frome hencefoorth therefore let no Heretike crake of Christs institution as though that could not admit Sole receauing So shall the Church haue some peace and the Catholikes be quieted in this sure truth that Sole Receauing is not against Christes institution This ground now and verity standing let M. Iewel if he dare come visiblie furth and shew an open face and intent without all dubling And then shall it be playnly perceaued whether he must yelde and subscribe or no. Here for example are six questions Whether a sicke maÌ„ hauing no penance to fulfill may receaue alone at his departing Whether a sicke man whiche is not yet reconciled but tarieth in his penance may receaue alone at the point of his death Whether a sicke man being not in daunger of death may receaue alone Whether a man in good health and good lyfe may receaue alone Whether a Priest not celebrating may receaue alone Whether a Priest at Masse may receaue alone Betwixt these sixe eche of them towardes an other there is some difference and therefore they make two seueral questions The truth which is confessed on both sides is That Christes institution doth stand with Sole Receauing in generall For he which is put from the Communion and lyeth at the pointe of death maye receaue alone euen by Master Iewels confession which yet is impossible to be true if Sole Receauing were absolutely againste Christes Institution Therefore in what other speciall kinde of Sole Receauing his Institution is violated therein muste of right be the question And therein let M. Iewel ioyne if he thinke hym selfe able with the Catholike As whether a sicke man beinge not put from the Communion for some faulte of his maye at the pointe of death receaue alone or no and so furth in any of the six foresayed questions Now when it shall be put furth in one speciall case if he shall then fetche his vagaries about and run ouer his Common Places That Christes Institution is to be obserued That the Primitiue Church had a Communion and proue it by sundrie wais Out of holy Fathers Out of M. Hardinges owne Doctors as he will terme them and Out of the very Masse boke it selfe c Let it be vnderstanded that if he speake so in generall and applieth it not to the speciall case proponed he falleth within daunger of his owne sentence Vanitas vanitatum Iew. 16. And that it is a greate token of idlenesse to bee earnest and copious in prouynge that thinge that no man denieth Againe It is a lewed kinde of Logike stoutely to proue that thinge that needeth no profe to leaue the thing that should be proued On the other syde if he wyll deale sincerelye and vprightely in deede and leaue to vse suche feares as he hath in this his first Replie practised then shal it quickly be perceiued that either he must yeld and subscribe or els craue a licence to be loosed frome y â— bond into which he cast hym selfe through his own hastines in his ChalleÌ„ge The second Article â‚ IN this second Article the question is 96 whether there was then vnderstaÌ„d six hundred yeres after Christ any CoÌ„munion ministred vnto y e people vnder one kynd Is this al It seemeth to be al because in the vttering of the Challenge there is no other forme of wordes concerning this question Yet least perchance we shall be handeled here as we haue bene in the first Article let vs aske M. Iewel what he intendeth and what he demaundeth in this question Syr and please you what if we proue vnto you that some haue receaued the Sacrement vnder one kind at home in theyr owne houses as Serapion did Ecc. hict. lib. 6. 〈◊〉 34. is not the question concluded against you No saieth M. Iewel The question is of the vsage and order of the CHVRCH Iew. 〈◊〉 The firste shift of M. Iew. M. Hardinges answer is of Serapions death bed as though there had bene no CHVRCH yet erected in those daies Yes verely there were but as we maye say with S. Hierome In Apdlogia aduersus Iouin Christ is not one at home in the house an other in the Church and that which is not contrary to Christes institution and commaundement maye be done without the Church of building which he gaue no commaundement But let vs go further If I may proue vnto you that some certaine persons as sicke men and faintye haue receiued vnder one kind shall that stand vs in any stead against you No sayeth M. Iewel Iew. 13â— The second shift This is the only thing that I denied that ye are notable to bring anye one sufficient example or authority that euer the WHOLE PEOPLE receiued the Communion in open Church vnder one kinde Surely you be an hard man to deale withall which will measure your witnesses by quantity and not by quality and sike there for a number where a fewe and honest examples were to be credited Well I will not yet leaue you so What if I can proue that receiuing vnder one kind was to be found in close Chappels and Oratories in Wildernesse and Canes whyther contempt of the world or auoydinge of persecution draue the Christians go we not directly vnto the question and bring you into necessity of subscribing and yelding No sayeth Maister Iewel againe The question that standeth betwene vs The third Shifte Iew. 96. is moued thus WHETHER THE HOLY COMMVNION c. were euer ministred OPENLY in the Church Yet he lieth for neither OPENLYE neither CHVRCHE is specifyed in the question How say ye to infantes if I proue that they in old time receiued in one kind OPENLY The â—â—urth Shifte and in the CHVRCH doth not this make against you No sayeth Maister Iewel Maister Harding maketh his whole plea vpon an infant and yet of infantes as he knoweth I spake nothing No more did ye of OPEN CHVRCH Iew. 139. WHOLE PEOPLE LAY MEN Priestes or others But ye made an vniuersal and indefinite negatiue proposition which is by all reason sufficiently reproued if but in
one particular the contrarye be proued But let vs consider the compasse of your inuentiou a litle further What if we proue that the two Disciples whom Christ ouertoke in the way to Emaus receiued the Sacrament vnder one kind Or that S. Ambrose and S. Basile receiued likewise vnder one is not all this plaine contrary to your assertions No sayeth M. Iewel For the question is moued of LAY PEOPLE Iew. 12â— The fifth Shifte M. Harding bringeth examples of Christ and two disciples who were of the number of Seuenty and two and therfore it maye well be thought they were ministers and not of the lay sort And againe I demaunde of the lavitie he aunswereth of Sainct Ambrose and Sainct Basile whiche were Bishoppes In dede M. Iewel you muste pardon him for hee thoughte that a good argumente for Communion vnder one kinde might haue ben taken of Christ his two disciples or of S. Ambrose or S. Basils authority alone But seing you haue now so conueighed the matter that all that will not serue where might a man finde examples to please you If it were by one example to be shewed that the laitye and WHOLE PEOPLE receiued OPENLY vnder one kinde and in the CHVRCH would this satisfie you No not this For the thing denied by M. Iewel The sixth shifte Iew. 14â— is this That the Sacrament was euer ministred vnto the people in one kind openly in any congregation or in the OPEN ORDER and vsage of any CHVRCH And againe It will not folowe that this was the COMMON ORDER of the Church Iew. 133. By which wordes ORDER and VSAGE we see one or two euidences would not be taken because so few proue not an VSAGE How now then When will this felow leaue his flying backe You should M. Iewel come nearer and nearer or stay at the least in some Conclusion But ye adde still more and more to the question and seeke to come out of the straits into which through folish hardinesse you are cast by your owne glorious Sermon Surely ye be gone a great way from those plaine and few wordes which this question of Communion vnder both kindes had at the beginning Yet will I folowe you if perchaunce I may see some end Therfore if I were able to proue that the WHOLE PEOPLE withoute mentioning of Bishops Priestes or Infants did receiue vnder one kind OPENLY in any CONGREGATION or in the OPEN ORDER and VSAGE of any Church Then I trust you would geue ouer all contention No you will neuer leaue till you haue brought it to an endlesse controuersye The Negatiue of our side say you which so much troubleth him is this Iew. 14â— Che. vij shift That for the space of six hundred yeares after Christ it can not be found in any old Doctor or Councell that euer the holy Communion was ministred to the people in the Church or in any open assemble in one kinde only AS IT IS NOWE MINISRED IN THE CHVRCH OF ROME You be safe M. Iewel I warrant you you be safe All the Catholikes in the whole world are not able to take you For what ecceptions will not you make and what Extensions will not you deuise vnder pretense of these wordes AS IT IS NOW MINISTRED IN THE CHVRCH OF ROME Come who will let him bring what he can If from the Priestes crowne downe to his foote And from Confite or to lte Missa est he proue not the like to haue bene vsed then as is nowe in Amice Albe Stole Girdle Praying Blessing Eleuating Breaking Communicating and distributing c. who shall let M. Iewel to say that he demaunded of such order of ministring as is now in the Church of Rome For as well he may in this matter of Receiuing vnder both kindes make question of the Priestes vestiuentes and of his soft speaking as in the question of Priuate Masse which concerneth nothinge else but Sole Receiuinge draw the state of it vnto saying of Masse and therevpon shewe many feates of his Cheualry And when shall he then come to the poynt of the controuersye whiche hath chosen such compasses to wander about in Therefore M. Iewel if you hold your selfe here you be safe enough I warrant you But are ye not ashamed so to trifle and to fight for nothing with suche contention We can not proue against you so formallye and demonstratiuelye as you require neither can we answer your challenge as nowe you haue expressed it But what then Where is the profit of your victorye What spoiles bring ye to your companye This is your fault Maister Iewell The vain contention of M. Iewel as in the former Article so now againe in this that you make a mightie shew and are not hable to fasten one blowe you laboure with hande and tounge as thoughe you woulde conquere some and free passage beinge graunted you ye can take nothinge away from vs. For let not the receauing vnder both kindes be fouÌ„d in OPEN CHVRCH and VSAGE OF THE CHVRCH and in the WHOLE PEOPLE And AS IT IS NOWE MINISTRED IN THE CHVRCHE OF ROME Yet for so muche as by Christe and his two Disciples by Saincte Ambrose Scrapion and others we proue that it is not contrarie to his Institution we confound your lying tonge which speaketh so lowdely and earnestly thereof as though the Catholike Church did not kepe it because the Laietie now receaueth vnder one kynd in moste places If it be true as your selfe confesse either voluntariely or constrained by the Catholikes that Receauing vnder one kind hath Examples for it in the Primitiue Churche The Catholike hathe his purpose and those yeres which you were content to be tried by then is it aloweable And then surely it is not against Christes Institution And then doth the vse of the Church now stand with Christes Institution and then shuld not you so shamefully abuse your Aduersarie Iew. 119 with how can M. Harding warrant the manifeste breach of Christes INSTITVTION 343 Againe The causes that moueth the Church of Rome to break Christes INSTITVTION are not great 150 Againe M. Harding thus maintaining the open abuse of the holy mysteries offendeth against Christes INSTITVTION â—â—9 Again what troweth he there is no difference betwene obeing Gods COMMAVNDEMENT and breaking gods COMMAVNDEMENT Againe With what indifferent iudgement then can M. Harding thus compare these thinges together 116 an INSTITVTION with no INSTITVTION Againe 114 the best stay that these meÌ„ caÌ„ lay hold vpoÌ„ is to deny Christes INSTITVTION Again 110 M. Harding thinketh that the people may safely breake Christes INSTITVTION c As though either he or any other Catholik weÌ„t about it But if it be so in deede and if you will abyde by it that Christes Institution is broken when any receaueth vnder one kinde alone goe not then from that state of the question and before this be tried troble not vs and others with matters impertinent
in the vulgar tongue And there vpon foloweth his Complaint what shall we do in our dayes c. He complaineth therfore of lacke of learninge in the Reader or hearer not of the vnknowen Tongue in which the Gospell was read for if the exposition of it doe folow in y e vulgar tongue the Custome is laudable And so hereby is presupposed that the Gospell was then in another tongue then vulgar But now if the exposition foloweth not and few either readers or hearers vnderstand the Gospell what is to be done Verely the suerest way is to sett moe ChildreÌ„ to schole and to make better prouision for Scholars and to chouse out of Scholars in to the Clergie But what is your aduise M. Iew. mary y t the Seruice I trow should be in the vulgar tongue But ye find not this in Iohn Billets complaint And except you gather this Conclusion how make ye an end of your processe with his testimonie Marke I pray you M. Iewel Iohn Billets conclusion vpon his owne Complaint It seemeth sayeth he It were better now to hould their peace then so to singe Lo he talketh of holdinge their peace in the Church not of cryenge out in the vulgar tongue Neither wisssheth he nor alloweth he y â— takinge vp of a new tongue and Seruice but of amending the ignorance of hearers and readers concerninge the old Also he sayeth yet moe Ghâ—sses of M. Iewel It seemeth but determineth nothinge And therfore it is a wonder that you espied not that Gheasse of his wherby we though it made for your purpose are not satisfied And to be as exact as your selfe are he was not within the first six hundred yeares after Christ Therfore you haue sayed hitherto with al your Gheasses nothinge to the purpose nor proued that the Seruice was in the Primitiue Church in some other tongue then Greeke or Latine But perchaunce the neerer you come homeward y â— better you be instructed and therfore leauinge to aske you of the Syrian AEthiopian Persian and Armenian with y â— lyke what say you to the French tongue Was the Seruice of Gallia now Fraunce in the vulgar tongue within the six hundred after Christ It was not sayed you will answere in such order as M. Harding Gheasseth Iew. â—84 Doe you then tell vs without Gheasses I pray you how it was But in a knowen tounge vnto the people Iewel What was that Speake M. Iewel Tel vs of some certaintie for of al thinges you loue no Gheasses That it was in a tounge knowen vnto the people it is euident by Seuerus Sulpitius Iewel To all or some for herein consisteth the very point To some we graunt and that helpeth you nothing To all how proue you out of Sulpitius or any other Here againe you be at a staie But goe ye foorth with Sulpitius The Reader was shut out by meane of the thronge One of the companie toke the Psalter Moregesses for the seruice in y t vulgare tounge Iewel Read the verse of the Psalme Out of the mouth of Infantes and Sucklings thou hast wrought prayse And as sone as that verse was read the people made a shout and the contrarie part was confounded Here we see the practise of the Church of Gallia A proper practise I promise you that as soone as the verse of the Psalme was read the people made a shout Thinke you that this Psalme and Readinge of y e which Sulpitius speaketh was any part of the Publike Seruice Or thinke you the people to haue bene so wyld and dissolute at those dayes that they made shoutes when they were in theyr Seruice But this is enough for you that they made a shoute By which you gather that they vnderstoode what was readde Yet doe ye not satisfie our question which is of Publike Seruice and whether all the people vnderstode it or no. But M. The historye which Sulpitius telleth M. Iew. mangleth Iewell if it had pleased you to haue reported this Historie as Sulpitius telleth it neither we coulde wonder at the peoples shoute neither you make an argument thereof that they vnderstoode the Church Seruice For to adde to your tale that which lacketh when S. Martyne stoode to be Bisshoppe one of the cheefe Bysshopes of the Countrie whose name was DEFENSOR was his greateste Aduersarye Sulpitius lib. i. de vita D. Marti For which cause the People beinge offended with hym when that verse of whiche you speake was readen in the end of the whiche these wordes are accordinge to an olde Latine translation Vt destruas inimicum defensorem they hearinge the worde DEFENSOREM some for ioy I beleue that it alluded so rightely to the name of theyr Aduersarye and other perchaunce of Symplicitie thinkinge that the Psalme did speakâ— of DEFENSOR the Bisshope made a shoute And signified or agreed that it was happelye spoken Whiche I see not howe it proueth the publike Seruice to haue bene in a knowen tounge and all the People to haue vnderstanden it But this I mighte gather that the Psalmes were then openly readde in the Latine tounge In whiche thinge what is your opinion M. Iewel In what toung thinke you was the Common Seruice of the Church of France You answer Iew. 148 Whether it were in the vulgar Tounge or in the Latine Tounge it was a Tounge knowen to the People But doth this answer agree with your absolute intelligence whiche would be compted to knowe the state of the Primitiue Churche so perfectlye that what so euer others bringe agaynste you it muste bee taken for Coniectures onlye and Gheasses See now in what darkenesse of vnderstandinge your selfe are And how much you be to seking when you be partycularly apposed You say of France that they had theyr Seruice in a knowen tounge M. Iew. at a stay but what tounge that was you can not readily tell And why so Can ye say precisely that all the people vnderstoode it for of all the people our question is except ye be sure what touÌ„ge it was And if it wer in any other then y e vulgar French can ye warraÌ„t that the whole Congregation vnderstode it â–ª And marke that they must not only vnderstand it simply but also turne it to theyr purpose cunnyngly Except you thinke that it was an easye matter for euery body to do â—t the reading of the foresayd verse of the Psalme to perceaue the allusion and conueyghance which might be made from defensorem the worde of the Psalme to DEFENSOR the Bysshope that resisted S. Martine And that in one instant euery man did make the sense of the Psalme to answer and serue his iust indignation against DEFENSOR the Bisshope and so gaue an vniforme shout for that they goodwills and the meaninge of that verse of the Psalme did so happely meete both together And if as I doe now tel it there be thousandes which wil not perceaue it forlacke not of Englishe but of
supremacy ouer al christeÌ„doÌ„ y t ye dare both speak do y e coÌ„trary to y t which hath beÌ„ euer more said practised for what if priuate praiers haue neuer ben called coÌ„moÌ„ yet y t shall not let but you wil at your plesure name theÌ„ so wheÌ„ you be disposed And therfore D. Harding as it semeth to me spake very warely in referring the matter to your meaning only saying If you mean M. Iew. by y e peoples coÌ„moÌ„ praiers c. Again But if by y e coÌ„mon praiers you mean y e publike seruice c As if he should say M. Iewel hath y e vpper grouÌ„d aboue vs what he denieth y â— must we proue what he affirmeth y t is wel proued c therfor I wil put this matter to his own meaning make my distinctioÌ„ accordingli Byside this they may for some cause continuing priuate be called coÌ„moÌ„ although which negatiue is very hard for you to proue thei were neuer heretofore so named For in EnglaÌ„d now at this preseÌ„t iâ—â—ne shuld say The Aue Maria is a Common Praier as at rehersal wherof thousaÌ„ds emoÌ„g y e people do lift vp their mindes towardes God though it be not coÌ„moÌ„ly vsed in your publike seruice for special pure fear perchaÌ„ce lest our Ladie shuld be to much remeÌ„bred Christ lesse regarded yet doth he not speake truly ê“prely y â— doth so say you think not I trust y â— it is a SalutatioÌ„ Praiers for holy dais only or Church only or Lords Ladies only what fault theÌ„ is it in speache when it is CoÌ„monly vsed to call it a CoÌ„moÌ„ praier I wil say more not only Priuate praiers being coÌ„moÌ„ly said mai be are cald coÌ„moÌ„ praiers differ froÌ„ publik seruice but also those self same praiers which are made openly in the hearing and sight of other vnto which they answer AmeÌ„ are of an other sorte kinde thaÌ„ the CoÌ„mon praier as it is takeÌ„ for publike Seruice As when the Apostles in the cumpany of a hundred and tweÌ„ty persons together Act. 1. praied that God would shew whether of the two Ioseph or Matthias he would choose to take the place of y e ministery Apostleship froÌ„ which Iudas the Traitour had falsely departed was not that a Common praier yet caÌ„ you not proue I beleue that it was a parte of their Ordinary CoÌ„mon Seruice Byside this also when the ChristiaÌ„s met together in the Primitiue Church among other gifts which were pleÌ„tifully theÌ„ geueÌ„ by the holyghost y e gift of Prayer was one That is some one of the cuÌ„pany and he not alwaies of the Clergy graciousely inspired vttered in the audience of the rest that forme or matter of Praier which the other should lerne and folow being yet to seking how to doe by them selues And this was in true speach a CoÌ„mon prayer yet was it not their CoÌ„mon Seruice For in publike Seruice the Ecclesiastical ministers doe goe before pronouÌ„ce it but this was such as lay men sometymes did vtter Also in Publike Seruice the order is appointed and set but in this case of which I speake the Prayer was not knowen before it was geauen and they were not euery day sure of the geuing the Holyghost alwaies disposing it by more or lesse according to his blessed inspiration Seing therefore that these kindes of CoÌ„mon Prayers are so distincted first in respect of the CoÌ„mones of theÌ„ though the vse be Priuate according to deuotioÌ„ Secondly for the open communicating of them according to y e Holyghosts inspiration Thirdly because of the order continuance of them according to the Catholike Churchs law coÌ„stitution why doth M. Iewel finde fault with distinctions or that which is graunted to be true in the first and seconde why will he haue it to be like in y e thirde kinde And because the people vnderstode w t they praied Priuately or some other what they vttered by the Holyghosts gift spiritually how can he conclude therefore that the CoÌ„mon Seruice was also in a tongue knoweÌ„ vnto all the people vndoubtedly How caÌ„ he deny y â— first How doth he nor coÌ„sider y â— second How much abuseth he his Aduersary and his Reader in the third For whiles he woulde haue it beleued that Common Praier is no other thing to say then Common Seruice of the Church what so euer either Scriptures and auncient Fathers doe proue Craft in double vnderstanding of a word concerning Common Praier that it was in the Primitiue Churche in a knowen Tounge that he draweth to Common Seruice of the Churche And againste all forewarning and distinction and reason he will triumphe therevpon and crake that it was euery where in a Tongue knowen to all the people For whiche cause this distinction is the better to be marked least M. Iew. through his confusion trouble the clerenesse of the matter Now therefore concerning the other part of D. Hardings distinction in which he declareth vnto you wherevpon he mindeth to ioyne with you in this third Article what say yow therevnto His wordes be plaine If you meane by Common praiers the Publike Seruice Hard. 72. some vnderstode it and some vnderstode it not Here vnwares he implieth a repugnance in reason Iew. 15â— and a manifest contradiction Whye so may not both there propositions stand togeather When your felfe doe preache M. Iewell some I beleue vnderstande you not and some vnderstand you for many stand a far of some nerer vnto you some vnderstand not all fyne English yet some vnderstand it well inough I will say further Your self I thinke sometymes vnderstand your self and some tymes ye doe not Yet here is no necessitie of contradiction For they nede not to be contrarye sayinges one to the other in whiche sometymes ye knowe where ye be some tymes ye speake you can not tell what As in the Declaming against the Sellinge and Byinge of Masses you knowe what you speake but in declaring of Christes Presence in the Sacrament to be Reallye Verely Substantially not by imagination c. and yet by faith Onlye M. Iewel himselfe vnderstandeth not M. Iewel Yet this is no Contradiction neither shoulde that be the faulte whiche I woulde therevppon obiecte vnto you but this rather that ye goe about to destroy the Religion it self because of the euill maners of them which professe it or that you which haue no Masters worth the hearing whom ye can or dare name vnto vs presume to reach the Catholike Church Diuinitie How proue you then a Contradiction to be implied herein and a Contradiction of M. Hardings where he saieth Some vnderstode the Common Seruice some vnderstode it not For euen in England it self when the Latine Seruice was of late vsed as it had continued hundreds of yeres together it was true in lesser Cities by many degrees than London or Yorck that some vnderstode it some vnderstode it not
nothinge to beware in him selfe of y t foly let him marke these that folowe The chief Authoritie beinge acknowleged and confessed â—at fo 101. whether theÌ„ he were called by either of those names that you deny or no it is not of greate importance M. Hardinge seemeth in part willingly to yeeld Iew. 220 Againe It was as easy a matter for Christ to geue Peter the Power and Title bothe togeather as to geue him the power alone without the Title Here I can not chuse but answer some what though for desire of shortnesse I haue and must let many thinges passe which might be staied vpon Who doubteth but Christ in deede might haue geuen the Title which M. Iew. findeth lackinge togeather with the power and Authoritie ouer the Church yet for so much as he hath not done it it becometh not vs to find any imperfection in his doinges but to honor them with all Reuerence though we see no reason for them or with all humilitie to thinke vpon them whether good causes may be brought furth and alleged for them or no. And truly concerninge this matter of which we speake we may rightly iudge y t because weyght and worthinesse is in the Thinges them selues therfore he gaue the power to S. Peter As for Names and Titles because they are so easely geueu as appereth by styles of Noble men and Princes his maiestie was not ouer curiouse in them Yet he left not S. Peter without a name of honor also sayinge Thou shalt be called Cephas Io. 1. which is interpreted Petrus a rocke or Stone Which Title duly considered is of more weight and worthinesse than either the name of Head Rector Gouernor Prince Christ gaue S. Peter a Title of dignitie and power or vniuersal Bishope Which as they signifie a Preeminence aboue others so do they not warrant a Continuance a Stedfastnes a sure Ground to buyld vpon and a Principall and Chiefe Stone in the house of God as Cephas or Petros which are to say a Rocke doe for our Sauyour expressed it in the hearinge of the twelue and sayed to S. Peter only and specially Thou art Peter or a Rocke Mat. 16. and vpoÌ„ this rocke will I buyld my Church and the gates of hell shal not preuaile against it And to thee will I geue the keyes of the kingdome of heauens and what thinge soeuer thou byndest vpon Earth shal be bound in heaueÌ„ what thinge soeuer thou loosest vpon Earth shal be loosed in Heauen Mary this Title of Vniuersall bishope or Head of the Church he gaue not him in plaine Termes But what of that He instituted effectuall Sacramentes yet he neuer called any of them by the name of Sacrament He taught men to beleue in the Trinitie yet the word is not found in all scripture The prophet Dauid calleth the Apostles Princes of all the Earth Psal 44. yet Christ which gaue them Authoritie ouer al sayeth no more but Goe and Preach the Gospell to al creatures Mar. 16. And againe I send you furth as sheepe emong wolues Mat. 10. Againe your master is one Christ and al ye are Brethern Mat. 23. and neuer called them Princes How then Doth M. Iew. find an imperfection in Christes doinges And thinketh he secretly in his hart that a Power is not well geuen without a Title And that if him selfe might haue ordered the matter To anger or troble the Catholikes M. Iewel makâ—th obiections against God himselfe the Name and Office should haue ben geuen both together from wheÌ„ce cometh this that a wretched and a vile creature hath to saye any thinge against his Maker The Catholike Church is coÌ„teÌ„ned The iudgement of y e highest Bishope in the earth is condeÌ„ned to hinder y â— Pope And aÌ„ger y â— Catholikes he is not afraied to dally with Almightie God him selfe And to aske of vs whether it was not an easy matter for him to geue Peter the Power and Title al together That when we shall confesse the Title was not geuen Either foolishe or blasphemous he may infer Ergo neither the Power Which argument If your selfe M. Iewel thinke to be naught what a wyse man are you so trimly to set it furth If it be good what a Miserable felow are you which dare so to speake of him that is Alwyse and Almightie As though it should not be agreable to geue a Power and not the Title Confesse that you haue ouershot your selfe in makinge so much of a weake reason Or looke to be Answeered accordingly when him selfe shal come in Iudgement for such purpose But let vs goe forward To this Church of Rome D. Har. Fo. 106. it is necessarie al that be faithfull to repaire and come togeather for the mightier Principalitie of the same Iren. lib. 3. cap. 3. Againe Andrew reâ—eiued not the Primacie but Peter Amb. 2. Cor. 12. Againe The Primacie or Principalitie of the Apostolike Chayre Aug. epi. 162. hath euermore bene in force in the Romaine Church Now marke what M. Iew. concludeth He answereth after his maner vnto euery one but he triumpheth not therein but in this sayinge M. Hardinge trippinge as he sayeth so nicely ouer the Doctors hath not yet once towched Iew. 254 Here begynneth the he and 〈◊〉 the thingethat was looked for and that he hath only and with such affiance take in hand For notwithstanding a great PoÌ„pe of wordes and the Names of manie holie Fathers yet hath he not hitherto shewed that the Bishope of Rome within the space oâ— six hundred yeares after Christ was euer called the Vniuersall bishope Or the head of the vniuersall Church VVhich thinge iâ— he could haue shewed I beleue he wold not so lightlie haue tripte it ouer See how ernest he is vpon the name of Vniuersall Bishop And how sore him selfe stumbleth at one simple word Tripping And how much he craketh before the end that the word he looketh for is not yet shewed But see in an other place D. Harding from the 108. leafe to the 119. of his boke proueth the necessitie of one head and authoritie of the Bishope of Rome By naturall reason By Appeales made to Rome By Excommunications directed from Rome By Elections of Bishopes confirmed by the Pope By his Approuinge or Disprouinge of Councels By restoringe of Bishopes wrongfulli coÌ„deÌ„ned to their Churches By Bishops and Patriarches reconciled vnto him And then goeinge forward in this matter Although it be a childish thinge saieth he to sticke at the name any thinge is called by yet I will bringe good witnesse for these names VNIVERSAL BISHOPE HEAD of the CHVRCH This I trow should cause M. Iew. to be more calme and quiet consideringe that he shall not tary longe but haue the very Names brought furth which he craueth so much for But he must make somewhat of nothinge aud seeme to be a Winner before his aduersarie ioyne with him And therfore he
the foresaid two CAP. III. TO proue by examininge of sundrye wintesses A Truthe which is either plaine by it selfe Or els by the Aduersary confessed it is an idle spending and prolonging of tyme to the shame of the party that vseth it And no hurt at al to the vnderstanding of the Iudge or the Court by troubling them with some dout or erroure For in laboring to perswade but a Trueth which euery man oughte to cleaue vnto be the vnderstanding neuer so closelye vnited therevnto by fulnesse of perswasion it can be no sinne or daunger to stand fast by that which not to assent vnto were reproueable And therefore sauing for other tircumstances of Subteltie or Vanitie vsed therein M. Iewel is not hurtfull to any poynte of true Faithe and Religion in his folowing of those Common Places of which I haue spoken all ready On the other side when an Heretike goeth from the matter that he hathe taken in hand to Accuse and Condemne and bring into harred Popes Cardinalles Priestes c. by gathering in of Ruinors by folowing of Suspitions and setting open vnto the world the worst that he can speake of the Clergy This although it be Vniustly Proudly and Vncharitably don yet doth it not greatly touche in any parte our Faith or Religion For if all were true that is fained vpon Popes Cardinals and Priestes Or if nothing be false of that which their Enemies reporte of some of them what foloweth then No more surely than that suche Persons are offenders and that the faultes of the Clergy are to be Corrected And I pray God be mercifull vnto his Church that either no Crimes be found among the worthier members of it Or iust Canons and lawes may be executed suche as allready are made for the purpose But let these thinges be as they may or will be who hath made Englishmen Iudges ouer Romanes Or who but the cursed Children doe tell tales abrode of their Fathers Priuities Againe why should there not be Praying for Soules departed because Some haue taken mony for it Or whye due honor not geuen to Sacramentes because some Sir Iohns are irrenerent It is not safe to leape out of the Arke into the maine waters beeause of some euil sent of men or bcastes therin Or to leaue the folowing of Christe because Publicanes and lypnners went in his companye The Apostleship is honorable thoughe Iudas be a Traitor And the Doctrine of him that sitteth orderlye in the Chaire is pure and good though the breathe whyche commeth from him doe sauoure These things therefore considered let M. Iewel make Impure digressions not sparinge to beraie his owne clothes in a fowle waye and intent so that he may get some dust or durt to hurle after â— e heeles of Popes and Cardinals Yet al this concerneth but maners only and should not in anie Indifferent iudgement or meane discretion remoue a Christian from the sâ—edfastnes of his faith But nowe A thirde kind of Common Places which I finde resorted vnto of M. Iewel Yea rather pointed out vnto vs by him is so wide and so daungerous that a man shall not only goe quickely out of his waye in folowinge them by him selfe but also when God shall send him a Guide to conducte him in the way 〈…〉 be vncertaine and doutful 〈…〉 meanes as M. Iewel 〈…〉 It semeth that now 〈…〉 long since intended Purpoâ—es of the 〈…〉 almost come to theyr 〈…〉 there lacketh no more nowe but that by Open Apostasie he make the faith of Christe to be forsaken and that not so much as the name thereof shal be suffered in the world Speake I this without cause Let any Indifferent man be Iudge For take the fundations awaye frome an howse and can it contynue any space together Take all credite awaye betwixte man and man in this trade of life and will there be left any Occupying to and fro If no Authoritie and law be in a Common wealthe can the state thereof endure What is that among Christians which hath brought them vnto the Faith and Staied and Gouerned them in it Is it not the Authority of the Churche Commending the Doctrine of Christ vnto vs By Fathers By Councels By Custome and Tradition And by Succession of Bishoppes euen from S. Peter hitherto Preparation for y â— Antichrist Emong all which if no one may safely be leaned vnto what remaineth in all the world worthye of credite And except there be an Authoritye and Order which we may and must folow what Faith can we haue at all But who is he that prepareth suche waies for the Antichrist Or who shaketh the Hartes and Consciencies of Christians euen from the very botome and foundations of them Mary except you BEWARE of him M. Iewel emonge other is he And either he keepeth yet still in store some secrete ReuelatioÌ„s by which perchaunce he will perswade the worlde which is incredible Or els As farre as we may gather by his Reply neither him selfe hath any Faith neither will suffer any other to be quiet in it Like a Rhetorician which for Glorie or Gaine sake feareth nothing so much as to be found Tongetied in any matter especially professing to speake aptly and copiously in euery matter And to that end prouideth his Common places to be in a readinesse For witnesses and Against witnesses For Rumors and againste Rumors For trying oute a matter by Racking and Against racking So hathe M. Iewel done Diuinitye brought to Rhetoricke He hathe brought Diuinitie downe to Rhetoricke And as though the kingdome of God consisted in Talke and not in Vertue and Power so doth he shewe vnto his diligenâ— Readers the Arte how to weakeÌ„ the Aduersaries staies and Authorities and in answering all other men yet for their owne partes neuer to be answered And to this end serueth thys worst kind of Common Places of which I gene thee Indifferent Reader faire warning As in example For Custome against Custome For Fathers against Fathers For Councels against Councels For Vnity against Vnity For Ceremonies against Ceremoniâ—s For Miracles against Miracles In which how M. Iewel hathe furnished hym selfe let it firste be declared and then afterwarde Considered For Custome If he doubt S. Paule Iew. 101. yet the verie practise and continuall Order of the primitiue Churche fullie declareth what Christe mente And they say Consuetudo est Optima Interpres Legum Custome is the best Interpreter of the Lawe Si De Interpretatione legis quaeratur c. If question happen to be moued touching the meaning of a Law first of all we must see De legibus et Se natuscoÌ„ sulto Longa Consue Si de what order hathe bene vsed in the like Cases in times past For the Custome and practise of the people is the best expounder of the Lawe Against Custome THe Reason that S. Basile maketh of Custome and continuaunce Iew. 49. being wel considered is very weake bothe for many other good and Iust causes