congregation Yea I adde A member of the visible Church whereas he was no better then a heathen before and the Churches of New England say with me Though Mr. H. say That never one of them said any such thing And sure this is one Church-covenant by which persons are made fixed members of a congregation Ergo they are by this covenant made members of the visible Church whereas they were as pagans before But there is another Church-covenant by which pastor and people are married and every member so married as they cannot act as Church-members without their own congregation and he cannot act as a pastor toward any but toward his own flock Hence a new Quaere Whether there be two different Church-covenants 3. It s without question that the family of Abraham was Gods covenanted people before circumcision was instituted Gen. 17. nor is there any ground for a formal Church-covenanting among themselves And it speaks against all Scripture to say there was a Church covenant in Egypt and in the Wilderness Exod. 19. 1 5. for they were not made Church-members for members they were before by these covenantings with God And this is Mr. H. his own consequence They are members before they chose their Pastors Ergo. So I retort Mr. H. If this covenant difference the visible Church from the invisible as the formal cause then there have been no visible Churches since the Apostles times till now Now the Churches saith Mr. H. in England Holland c. have the implicit covenant at their practice evidenceth Ans. Yet it must fâ—…ow since presbyterian Churches believe and practice juridical power without the bonds of a single Independent Church in divers associate Congregations 2. And do not contend for but are against really supposed Saints as only constituent members of the visible Church and in the causes internal and external And 3. are so contradictorious to Independency there have been no Church according to the rule of the word since the Apostles dayes 2. If an implicit covenant suffice we shall find popish Churches to have much of that Mr. H. Though many unwarrantable wayet convey this covenant yet it self may be warrantable Ans. If by ways Mr. R. mean as he doth wayes inseparable causes pillars means and undeniable consequences the covenant must be the more unhappy as the unlawful wayes of the Mass the lifting up of the bready God and Idolatrous Ceremonies inseparably conveying it render it unlucky Mr. H. It is a dream to say that when the Apostles came to plant Churches that private men not the Apostles converted them Where is the man of ours that will affirm that all All are converted by private Christians Ans. The reply auswers not a whit to the Charge of Mr. R. now when the Apostles are not 2. The Apostles by our Brethrens way are not Pastors so much as extraordinary nor publick men for extraordinariness destroys not the nature of Pastors and to our Brethren Pastor and flock are relatives but the heathen are no fed stock nor these who now teach the Gospel to the heathen Apostles nor Pastors 3. These who teach that now Apostles ceasing Pastors as Pastors convert none according to the revealed command of Christ but pre suppose all are converted before they be admitted members they convert not as Pastors Ergo they must convert them as no Pastors Ergo they convert them as private men except there be a middle preacher between a preaching officer and a private man but this every where is taught by our brethren now this middle uncalled man must be the ordinary converser of all 2. Mr. H. teacheth that the Church homogeneal in ordinary now when there are no Apostles is before Baptism and Ministry now this Church is all the visible sovieties of confederate converts on earth Let Mr. H. tell us who converted them not Pastors for they are a framed Church in esse and operari the Fathers and sole Creators of all Officers Mr. H. It is unwarrantable to say Pastors now convert not Indians and Heathens saith Mr R. It is warrantable enough saith M. H. Answ. Enough is a feast Converters of Heathen now are either Apostles Evangelists or Ordinary Officers and Pastors or of some middle new Officers this latter cannot without Scripture be said not the former for they want the gift of tongues and miracles nor are they ordinary Pastors For Pastor and flock saith Mr. H. Shepherd called and Church chusing Husband and Wife are Relatives But Indians are no chusing Church Mr. H. Men must be satisfied in conscience of the conversion one of another saith Mr. R. Ans. To reasonable charity they should saith Mr. H. and no doubt it was in Ananias Saphira Ans. But their long conversing together for this satisfaction Mr. H. bringeth down to two poor experienced Witnesses Magus and Iudas for every one must witness of another and that witnesses were called and judicially deponed that all the 3000. Act. 2. and all Iudea and all round about who were baptized Matth. 3. 3 4. Mark 1. 5. Luk. 4. 21. were real converts who can believe except you believe for so saith Mr. H. Mr. H. What is all this to overthrow the covenant Ans. Very much for it destroyes the Ministry for though some private Christians may convert some yet no man can shew me by our brethrens way that pastors now do convert any at all contrary to Mat. 28. 19 20 Rom. 10. 14 15. Eph. 4. 11 12 13. 1 Cor. 3. 5. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Act. 26. 16 17 18. or if they convert any they do it not as pastors M. H. They which have no Church-power can put forth no Church power but such as Churches to other Churches Ans. The proposition is weak they put forth an act of love of counsel of approbation of conjunction as well as power Mr. R. grants one single Congregation to have no power over another many Churches sent to Parliament to declare their judgement may approve of their determinations if holy if not may confute them yet they have no Church-power over the Parliament Ans. 1. My argument is mistaken many Churches suppose mine have not power by this way to receive in one Church nor Iames Cephas and Iohn power to receive authoritatively Paul as they do say Calvin Pelicanus Pareus Piscator Diodati Beza yea Ierom also before them Mr. H. If Mr. R. constâ—ue a token of consent consensionis to be a Symbole of authority it is beyond my understanding Ans. Mr. R. never understands private consent or private counsel such as one private man or woman may give to another private person of their own or of another congregation to be publick authority but I acknowledge a publick authoritative and Aopstolick consent to be in Iames Cephas Iohn and their meaning was Brother Paul our counsel as Brethren is and our consent you be a Preacher but we have no Apostolick authority from the Lord to own you as an Apostle
It s true they may say he plays the Tyrant in that but yet God hath given him the onely supreme power both to inquire saith Mr. H. and judge of Professions and Religions which is true and ought to be maintained which is false and ought to be rejected And if so the many godly who fled from Old England to New England because of Prelatical Tyranny of conscience did believe that the late King Charles had power as a King to judge the Service book and Ceremonies imposed upon the godly in England yea and upon Scotland also was the onely true Religion and had power given him of God as supreme Magistrate to command all the three Kingdoms to be of the Kings Religion or then let them all be banished out of his Dominions But is not this to make the King a Pope and the onely carver and Lord of the Faith and Religion of his Subjects and so the King by his Office is the Messenger of the Lord of Hosts and a Royal Prophetical Teacher who watches for the souls of all his people What Scripture puts the King in such an Office 2. Did not the godly and sound condemn such an Headship in the Oath of Supremacy and in the Kings Proclamation in which he as King commands all to receive such a Religion as he thinks fit even the substantials of the Mass and no Prayers but book-prayers the other Prayers being fancies And this command is equal to a pastoral or Synodical Decree 1. Because it comes from the King having no act of the Church but onely having taken the counsel of his Clergie and so by civil power peculiar to his power Royal and place as Mr. H. speaks p. 56. 2. Because its the onely form of worship he thinks fit 3. Because he commands it to all Ecclesiastick persons Arch-bishops Bishops c. as the onely Spiritual Pastor of Pastors on earth Hence if Christ hath given such power it s not lawful without breach of the fifth Command to embrace or profess any Religion in a Christian Kingdom except it be first instamped by or with the Authority of the King the Head as the Chaplain calls him of the Churches by his Royal Authority Yea our Book of Canons say that Christian Kings now have the same power in causes Ecclesiastical that the godly Kings among the Iews had And are they not then Prophets by office and may write Canonick Scripture as David and Solomon did and so we must not without Rebellion profess the Faith or the Christian Religion but when and where such as the King commands us contrary to Mat. 10. 32. or we are to confess Christ before men but not except the King teach and command a confession and such a confessor 3. Paul must have told us Eph 4. 11 12. of the King as well as of the Apostle given to edifie the Body and gather the Church if so be that he is the onely supreme Iudge of true and false Religions And he must be some spiritual officer and one who chooseth a God and a Religion to his Subjects and he must be â—he holiest Subject who can say The Kings God is my God When I read this I was sad to see Mr. Tho Hooker speak and write like the Royalist Mr. Rich. Hooker 4. The Magistrate supreme and inferiour except Mr. H. be an Erastian is a member of the Church and under the Scepter of Christ in the preached Gospel and to be edified by the Word Seals Rebukes and Censures for otherwise He that despiseth you despiseth me and if he hear not the Church let him be as a heathen and Faith comes by hearing must suffer a strange exception in the person of the King he may despise pastors and the Church without guiltiness for he is above the pastors and carves their Religion and prescribes as our cited Proclamation saith the causes why Bishops should excommunicate and censure to wit if they refuse the Kings Religion and Mr. H. warrants him by a power peculiar and supreme so to do 5. We reade not that the Kings of Israel and Iudah prescibed what was true and false Religion but were subject to the Priests and Prophets who spake the word of the Lord and the Prophets rebuked Kings as Ieroboam and others for intruding themselves in that office Moses Samuel David Solomon were Prophets 2 Chron. 36. 16. Isa. 50. 19. 6. The Magistrate is the Minister of God and bears the Sword to take order with evil doers and is Custos vindex utriusque tabulae and the Religion is supposed to be before the Ruler 7. It s somewhat heathenish like Numa Lycurgus who to procure obedience and authority to themselves gave out that they prescribed what Religion was true and that they conversed much with God 8. All questions and controversies of Religion in the Nation must be determined all cases of conscience resolved by this Pope who onely can determine what is true and what is false Religion and the King must be the Oracle and Priest with whom onely the Urim and the Thummim must be 9. All fallings against Religion must be Treason against the King whereas Kings and people are rebuked because they hearkened not to the voice of the Prophets not because disobedient to the word of the Lord in the mouth of the King Either this is to take both the Swords from the Pope and to give them to the King or it is nothing for without controversie the King bears the Sword to take vengeance of him that doth evil Rom. 13. 4. 1 Pet. 2. 14. and whosoever determineth by his supreme power what is true and false Religion to all the Subjects must bear the other Sword 10. M. H. makes out his Assertion thus Kings could not provide for their Subjects to live in godliness and honesty except they had power to inquire and judge of true and false Religions Now this is spoken of Nero and of heathen Kings 1 Tim. 2. 1 2. But out of doubt God never made heathens that are enemies to true Religion supreme determiners of true and false Religion And if this agree to Rulers as Rulers as M. H. saith it is peculiar to their power and place then all Rulers Heathen Christian high and low sound in the faith and corrupt and heretical should be carvers of so many sundry Gods and Religions But the next Reason is ill and worse if because the King is a Nurse-father to the Church he must be father and a begetter both of Religion and of the Church because he protects and defends the true Church then true Religion must be before him As also when Mr. H. saith that the Prince is a Nurse father to the Church he means the Independent Church onely so that he owes no protection to Presbyterians nor justice to them And if the Nurse-fathers care be that there should be a right opinion and worship openly professed within his Territories the Magistrate is to do this no other wayes but
of the Church saith Calvin are adorned with this priviledge pardon of sins and it pertaines saith Gualter to the Church onely and hâ—…r citizens because saith Luther the gâ—dly people hath a God gracious therefore their sins are forgiven So Buâ—inger Oecolampadius Diodati English Divine Zwinglius and the popish interpreters Carthusianus Vatablus Arias Montanur Corn. à Lipide Gasp. Sanâ—lius Lyranus never man before pious M. Hooker expounâ—…d the place of such visible Saints as have room in this house to wit Witches and Traytors 2. To Siâ—n a single congregation as if the gates of hell could not prevail against such cypâ—ers And 3. he must not be Kâ—ng and Law-giver by this way to godly visible believers when their congregation is broken dissipated by persecution death of officers O poor comfort But these are fit to be members in Christs Church that are subjects in Christs kingd me by influence of politick guidance and common gifts the proposition in that sense is neither proved by Isaiah 33. 22. or any reason but the just contrary conclusion to wit that believing and really pardoned Sion vers 22. 23 24. must be the persons that make up the kingdome of Christ nor does it conclude any thing but contrary to M. H. and the way of the congregation to wit Ergo onely such as are visible Saints according to the politick influence and common gifts are fit to be members of the visible Church which is a most false conclusion for also true believers sincerely professing the faith and who are subjects of Christ according to the influence of saving grace remission and pardon v. 22 23 24. are fiâ— to be and really are members of the visible Church except the argument conclude that onely hypocrites appearing to be believers real are fit to be members of the visible Church which is most false by the grant of adversaries and by the truth it self 3. M. H. suppresseth the conclusion and proves the proposition that reall believers are fit to be members of the mystical and true Church which neither we nor he deny and the terme in rationall charity directed by the word which should be in both propositions is neither mentioned in the Argument not in the Scriptures and Proofs an unknown way of arguing and for the assumption But visible Saints that is Saints in the judgement of charity ruled by the word are onely subjects of his kingdome M. H. never so much as touches nor labours to prove nor is there a Scripture in old or new Testament to prove that men cannot be the subjects of Christs visible Kingdome except Apostles or some visible society declare and passe a judiciall sentence that they are subjects of his visible kingdome 4. The probation is fan toto coelo from the conclusion to be proven They saith he who carry themselves in professed rebellion they are traitors not subjects and Christ is the King of Saints not of drunkards Atheists c. It s true he is no visible king to visible Pagans nor are they as visible professed Atheists subjects of his visible kingdome And who teaches any such thing and against whom doth M. Hooker dispute if there be any such members in our Church not censured and if obstinate not casten out it is the sinfull and abused practise of men and we professe we desire to be humbled before the Lord that our Ministers and assemblies received into our Church men guilty of perjury drunkennesse shedding of the blood of the people of God in the defence of the cause and sworne reformation and that our Ministers and Elders ah to many of them are scandalous baters and mockers of piety though our Church was in as fair way of purging the house of God but now by the present stroke we are deprived of liberty so to do but that is nothing concludent against the right government of Christ Christ is not the head and king of professed rebells true nor is he head and king in a saving way of latent rebells or of your visible Saints such as Magus and Iudas ergo he is head and king to none as visible members but to men onely judged in charity led by the word to be reall converts no logick can prove the consequence But our mind is that Christ is visible head by influence of gifts ordinances and externall guidance to all to whom he sayes I will be your God and who professe subjection to him whether the Church shall judge them reall converts or not judge them so M. H. arg 3. pag. 17. If visible Saints be not members Then non-visible Saints may be members The latter is absurd then these who in the judgement of charity are members of the devil may be conceived members of Christ in the same judgement of charity charity then must pluck out her eyes Answ. 1. here is as good a contradiction if any goodnesse there be in these If such as are onely visibly Saints Magus Iudas be no members but rotten ones Then such as are non-visibly Saints such as Peter Paul who are really justified and chosen are fit visible members Let M. H. choose him by his own contradiction which he saith divides the breadth of being though this phancied contradiction divide neither the breadth nor the sixteenth part thereof If onely visibly justified and chosen Saints who are such really are not visible members Then none visibly justified and chosen Saints are fit members visible The antecedent is true and Simon Magus is not a visible member to M. Hooker by this account and the latter is contradicent to M. Hookers way for then one who is to the eye of charity visibly justified and chosen and that really by M. H. metaphysick which so divides the breadth of being as Peter visibly believing and thereby really blessed Matth. 16. 16 17. shall be to the same eye of charity not visibly justified and chosen but in the miscarrying judgement of charity shall be no visible member according to the reality thereof as Simon Magus and therefore the definition of a visible member cannot agree both to Peter visibly believing and to Magus visibly believing for there is a reall contradiction between Peter his believing reall and Magus his believing reall as good Logick demonstrates but the latter is absurd for both Peter and Magus are visible Saints Let any man help M. H. in his metaphysick here 2. Aristotle long agoe taught us that there is no contradiction when the contradiction is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 now there is a mids betwixt a visible Saint as M. Hooker meanes and a no visible Saint for his visible Saint is one who by the Church is judged a reall convert and his no visible Saint is one who is judged no reall convert example of the former is Peter or Magus an example of the latter is an unbaptized Pagan so judged now the mids to us Simon Magus when he is baptized and we teach that Philip and the Church of Samaria neither
are not made to single Churches or kingdomes provinces since the famous Churches of Rome Ephesus Thessalonica of Asia are horribly fallen these previledges belong firstly and principally to the Catholick visible Church as Mysticall and invisible both subjectivè and finaliter or objectively especially as they are Gods treasures M. H. pag. 18. M. R. yields the causes while he granteth the wicked are forbidden what to be Church members no but to take the covenant of God in their mouth for if they come to see their sinne reform their evil wayes they are non-visible Saints therefore while they remain haters of reformation they are not visible Saints and have no title to be Church-members Answ. The cause is never a whit the more yielded because of M. H. his mistake in proving one thing for another the Lord Psal. 50. 16 forbids hypocrites remaining hypocrites to take the Lords covenant in their mouth but I said not therefore he forbids the Church to take in any as members but these onely to come to see thâ—ir sinne and to reform their evil waye as M H. saith which is indeed to yield the cause for if they who leave the wayes of Pâ—ganisme Iudaisme Popery and the wayes of sin professe they are willing to be the disciples of Christ if the profession be not grossely and knownly hypocriticall and their coming in be not for by-ends and to betray the cause but morally ingenuous and negatively sincere the Church is to receive such and is not forbidden to admit them as members whether to the knowledge of the Church they be reall converts or not reall converts I grant it is another thing if they refuse to come and to be baptized Luk. 7. 29 30. Luk. 14. 17 18. sure no man can be a Church-member against his will 2. The Lord may well rebuke Magus and Iudas while they are Church-members the same way that he rebukes the hypocrites Psal. 50. 16 17. and say what have you to do to declare my statutes c. for I know your hearts how you hate instruction c. and yet the Church sinnes not in admitting them 3. M. H. confounds these two to wit the seeing of sinne and reforming of their evill way which is reall and sincere repentance if it be a saving sight of sinne they sincerely repent if it be counterfeit to wit the giving evidence of godly sorrow and repentance the Church may see the latter and yet Magus and Iudas remaine under the same reproof for they may in their heart hate instruction and act these sinnes of partaking with thieves secretly and be secret adulterers and the word may reprove them and yet there is no blame in the Church in either admitting them or in bestowing Church-priviledges upon them CHAP. V. Of the call of God to make a Church 2. there may be a true visible Church and members thereof before there be any seals in that Church Whether the preaching of the word be an essentiall mark of the Church MAster Hooker pag 18. M. Rutherfurd such as internally hate to be reformed may be ordinary hearers and so members M. H. if ordinary hearing made a member then excommunicate persons should be members for they are ordinary hearers Ans. If M. R. make every ordinary hearing to make a member of the Church ordinary and intire he saith something 2. This twitcheth the question whether the preaching of the Gospel be an essentiall note and marke of the visible Church Before I speak how far persons excommunicate are members or not members of the visible Church hence 1. Any sort of profession whether by an avowing of that Gospel to one another or suffering for it even when the sheepheards are smitten and the flock scattered is a practicall and very speaking mark that such a company is a true Church 2. A pastorall publishing of the word is a speciall mark and an great-half of a note of a Ministeriall Politick Church Though the administration of the seals to those capable of them added thereunto make a more complete marke of a more complete Ministeriall Church 3. The active call of God by the preached word may be transient and occasionall to mocking Athenians Act. 17. and yet intended to save some and to be a seed to some Church v. 34. certain be leed this is the seed of some Church like some cornes of wheat scatteredly fallen in a field that may have an harvest 4. This active call may be refused and the refusers never be the Church Luk. 14 16 17. not visible members they visibly refusing the call and counsell of God and neglecting obstinately to be baptized Luk. 7â— 30. 5. But we mean beside this active call some passive professing and receiving of and yielâ—…g to the offered Gospel So as they came to the marriage-supper whether they have or want a wedding garment Mat. 22. and receive the seed whether they be thorny rockie or a way-side ground or they be good soile and may yield some externall obedience in this consideration Pagans and Turks are not passively the called of God nor members of the visible Church though they be hearers but that they be ordinary fixed hearers and yet in no sort externall professors but remain without and be Pagans is not conceiveable except they professedly heare for curiosity or to mock or to undermine the Gospel and Church and so they are not to be admitted to be hearers or Church members except by violence they thrust themselves in among hearers 1. Abraham called with his house to leave idolatry obeyeth the calling buildeth an altar to the Lord Gen. 12. 1 2 c. 18. Professeth and teacheth as a Prophet the doctrine of the covenant and God appearing revealeth the Gospel to him Genes 12. v. 2 3 Genis 15. 4 5 6 7. and he believeth and so he and his house is a visible Church when not while many yeers after and untill he was ninetie years and nine the seal of circumcision was ordained and given to him and his house Genes 17. 1 2 3. and the Church is a true visible Church in the wildernesse in which was the Angel of the covenant who spake to Moses in mount Sina Act. 7. 38. which is a note and marke of a true visible Church Revel 1. 20. Rev. 2. 1. which yet wanted circumcision and the passeover forty years in the wildernesse Iosh. 5. 5 6 7. this proves that there is a true visible Church where Christ is and yet wanteth the ordinary seals Baptisme and the Lords supper 2. When the Apostles first planted Churches we have no ground that they preached to Ephesus to Galathia to Philippi to Corinth where God had much people as the Lord before had told Paul Act. 16. 6 7 10 11 12 13. Act. 18. 7 8 9 10. and that they framed them not into Churches untill to the satisfaction of the judgement of charity of the Apostles they were converts and so to them all chosen to eternall life and untill they did
They speak not feebly but rationally who say that rationall discoursing as fixed in a man is an essentiall mark of a man M. H. par 1. c. 2. pag. 19. M. Rutherfurd said the argument is nothing against us such adulterers Psal. 50. as are not to take the Law in their mouth are to be cast out but the question is whether if they be not cast out the Church for that be no true Church M. H. Answer the first part yieldeth the cause again for if they should be cast out there is no reason they should be received or taken in nor have they any right thereunto nor be they fit matter Answ. M. Rutherfurd is not such a yielder of truth as so for M. Hookers argument yieldeth more thus these who are worthy to be casten out had never right to be received in as Church members so M. H. But adulterers who take the law in their mouth known adulterers so M. Rutherfurd yieldeth and no otherwayes are worthy to be casten out ergo adulterers who take the law in their mouth had never right to be received in as Church-members 1. M. Hookers proposition is most false for thousands as Magus and others worthy to be casten out had right Church right of that onely we speak such as pastors can give them to be admitted members so the Scripture so M. H. part 1. chap. 2. conclus 3. pag. 27 When then both the proposition and assumption are taught in Scripture granted by M H see now who yieldeth the cause 2. to say if they should be casten out ergo they had never right to come in is as if he wouâ—d say such a woman hath committed harlotry with many men beside her husband ergo she had never right to be a married wife and was never lawfully marryed and so hath neither committed adultery nor deserveth a bill of divorce 3 No more can follow from this that adulterers once admitted to membership falling into scandals ought to be casten out ergo if they had been under the same scandall visibly they ought not to have been taken in but this supposeth a begging of the question that there is in Scripture a gathering of Churches of visible converts out of Churches of men and women born and baptized in their infancy within the visible Church which yet I say was never dreamed of by the Apostles and though it were so whether we speak of such a gathering or of gathering of Churches out of Pagans persons not capable of Gospel-scandals before their admission which may hold them out as they are guilty of Gospel-scandals after they profess the Gospel For then an unmarried woman might be capable of adultery with her own husband before she be married upon him 2. as to that which M. Rutherfurd said that supposed they were not cast out the question is whether the Church for that be no Church M. H. saith that wholly misseth the mark again for the question is twitching the constitution of the Church of what matter it should be made it is not twitching separation from the Church To which I answer because I dispute against both these of the congregation and the Separatists our brethren having no arguments but such as Separatists and Anabaptists have and with more vigour prosecuted then they because I conclude against separation as well as against them having to do with two adversaries and giving one answer to the one which yet is not taken off and another answer to the other it is not equal dealing to say the answer to the Separatists wholly misseth the mark because it is not the same with the answer to the congregational way 2. M. H. declineth an answer to that which I said against the separation that if any were not casten out it followeth not that the Church leaveth off to be a Church and must be separated from But our brethrens practise in New England is if any Church do not cast out such as deserved to be cast out to non-communion them and declare them to be no Churches of Christ and so they must be separated from which can be upon no ground but because they maintain a Church to be no true Church consisting of false matter and visibly unregenerate and would M. H. have Church-Communion kept with such yea his arguments first and second which are both but one though he find out four where there are scarce three prove them to be no visible Church for he must stand by this as his own These to whom Christ is head and king by the influence of politick guidance and motion of the head as leige subjects are the onely fit matter of the visible Church and the onely true visible Church But such as deserve to be casten out and are not casten out yea are owned still as Church-members are not such to whom Christ is head and king Ergo such leave off to be members and are not a visible Church the proposition and assumption both are M. Hookers I confesse when an answer cannot be taken away it is a compendious way to say not one word to it but simply the answer doth wholly misse the marke M. H. must say a Church of false matter is no Church or then with us a society professing the pure doctrine of Christ though the members be wicked is a true Church CHAP. VII M. Hookers reason why he passeth in silence the arguments of his own book of discipline of the Churches of New England for the constitution of a visible Church and defendeth them not a scanning of these arguments MAster Hooker part 1. ch 2. pag. 19. passeth in silence the arguments of the way of the Churches of New England except a gentle hint he hath at the first but he omitteth the nerves thereof onely he bringeth four arguments of his own in my apprehension inferior not a little to the arguments of learned M. Cotton it was wisdome so to do onely in the place pag. 15. he giveth us a short list of his visible Saints we are saith he from rationall charity to say and hope and so are bound to conceive they are Saints converts and internally justified so Iudas Magus Ananias c. though hidden hypocrites were such and therefore our Saviour proceedeth with such not as God who knoweth the heart but in a Church way as these who Iudge the tree by the fruit the Church cannot judge of bid things nor censure them Answ. 1. Then the Saints faithfull brethren temples of the holy Ghost at Rome Ephesus must be proven to be visible Saints from the Scripture from such a visible Saintship as our Saviour and the Apostles saw in these goodly ungodly Saints Iudas Magus c. for if these titles conclude that they were internally converted and chosen to grace and glory c. as Ephs. 1. 3. 1 Thess. 5. 10. 2 Thess. 13. 14. 1 Cor. 3. 16. as they do then must all and every visible member of these Churches be visible elects
and predestinate to glory which if our brethren say of all the members of all these visible Churches suppose Magus and Iudas had been among them it is easie for any to prove the contrary 2. but if so be that these titles prove they were all internally converted and that our visible Church must be such or else they are falsly constituted then how shall Demas Magus find roome in the visible Church as true members since they were not such if it be said that the argument which proveth that they weremore may well prove the lesse and that they had all the visible Saintship that Magus Iudas had we shall grant that but then you must stand by this argument Such as were the members of the Churches of Corinth Rome Ephesus Thessalonica c. by these places cited by the discipline-book of new England chap. 3. sect 3. pag. 56. 57. 1 Cor. 12. 27. Ephs. 2. 22. 1 Cor. 3. 16 17. 2 Cor. 11. 2. 1 Cor. 1. 2. Galat. 1. 2. Math. 16. 16. to 19. such ought the members of our Church visible to be or then they are constituted of false matter But the members of these Churches by these places were really and internally converted and justified Ergo our Churches visible must also consist of these that are really and internally converted and justified or then they are constituted of false matter but the conclusion is false and absurd for so Christ and the Apostles erred even proceeding in a Church way in admitting Iudas Magus to be members for sure they were not internally and really converted and justified and yet M H. maketh them true members and his visible Saints it was wisdome therefore to M. H. to bury these arguments and to contradict his own book of discipline which page 57 saith that Christ taxeth the pastors by whose connivencei the man wanting the wedling garment came in friend how camest thou hither M. H. saith nay they were not taxed that man conveyed it so cunningly that onely the master of the feast pe â—â—ived it others did not discover it page 29. but all dependeth on the making good the assumption that these places prove that they were inwardly and really converted which I make good by these reasons 1. the Holy Ghost expresly saith they were the habitation of God through the spirit temples of the holy Ghost espoused to Christ as a chast virgin ergo they were really such to say that Paul speaketh according to the judgement of charity only and in a Church way is to beg the question there is not a word of any such judgement of charity in the Scripture and our brethren have no law to adde to the Scripture to help their own cause 2. If you adhere to this argument you must say with M. H. that Christ hoped and was bound to conceive by the fruits of Iudas his life that Iudas was a Saint and might have some seeds of some spirituall work of God in his soul and yet Christ saith have not I chosen you twelve and one of you hath a devill and this he knew from the beginning Iohn 13. 11 18. because Iesus not as God but in a Church-way dealt with Iudas and such I remit it to any man if Christ failed against charity except he believed Iudas to be a convert before he betrayed his hypocrisie what warrant in the Scripture for this 3. What ground that the Apostles in charity believed and said that Demas Magus were converts temples of the holy Ghost chosen to life as the Ephesians 1. 3. and Thessalonians 2 Thâ—s 2. 13. or then they had sinned in admitting them to the visible Church and baptizing them 4. Whereas he sayeth the Church judgeth not of things hid whether the Churches of New England do not judge and heavily censure though they will not give it that name all the baptized in their Church whom they exclude from Church-membership and the Lords supper all their life as if they were Pagans because they have not so much charity as to believe them to be visible converts judge reader But say they this will not prove that they were internally and really converted because Paul saith so of them to which I say then upon the same account must we expone these places Ephes. 2. 4. God rich in mercy hath loved us and when we Paul and converted Jewes and Gentiles were dead in sinnes hath quickened us together in Christ in the judgement of charity and in a Church way onely 6. and hath raised us up together and hath made us fit together in heavenly places in a Church-way verse 10 we are his workmanship created unto good works and we who verse 12. were sometimes without Christ strangers to the Common-wealth of Israel 13. are now made neare in the blood of Christ and verse 18. we who were strangers have accesse by Christ through one spirit unto the Father onely in a Church-way by politick guidance of our head Christ and the like must be said of all the reall internall work of the spirit upon the hearts of all the Saints at Ephesus Colosse Corinth Thessalonica c. so they were by this reason light in the Lord quickened had Christ dwelling in them by faith were sealed translated from death to life c. in a Church way and from none of these places can we conclude that they were really and internally converted for all these places and reall works of grace must agree to Iudas Magus and to all such visible Saints because all Churches visible rightly constitute must be made up by this argument of such visible Saints else they are false in the matter and not according to the pattern of Apostolick Churches 3. The assumption is made out also thus as the Apostle calleth them the body of Christ the habitation of God temples of the holy ghost so also he blesseth God and rendreth thanks to him that had chosen to life the Ephesians blessed them with all spirituall blessings in Christ bestowed on them adoption redemption forgiyenesse of sinnes the inheritance of glory Ephes. 2. 13 4. c. ordained the Thessalonians not to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Iesus Christ 1 Thess. 5. 9. 4. had chosen them to salvation through Sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth 2 Thess. 2. 13. and upon this buildeth their comfort and faith I Thes. 54. 9 10. 11. so Coloss. 1. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. now what joy comfort faith thanksgiving can have place if these places be not understood of such reall internall graces as election conversion c. as Iudas and Magus neither have nor can have otherwayes all the hypocrites as Magus and Iudas have a like lively consolation with all the chosen of God and Paul must blesse God because he had chosen called justified c. such as Magus and Iudas 4. I wonder the way of the Churches should cite 1 Cor. 3. 16. for visible Saintship which dependeth on
42 43 44 45 46. compared with Act. 5. 1 2. Act. 8. 12 13 14. Mat. 22. 8 9 10 12. How is Mr. Robinson now cleared if it be said ay but Mr. Robinson said it is not Gods will that persons notoriously or visibly wicked should be admitted into the Church He said not as you repeat his words leaving out notoriously It is not Gods will that persons wicked should be admitted into the Church I answer it but this he must say or he saith nothing at all For 1. if it were Gods will that wicked persons should be admitted to the Church then should he crosse himself and his own end because wicked persons doe no lesse crosse God and his end the glory of his name then the notoriously and visibly wicked for both cause his name to be blasphemed and the force of his argument cannot lie in the notoriety or visibility of crossing of Gods end but in the very crossing of it in it self see Mr. Ball. 3 Gods creating of the first visible Church of Angels and men without sinne is not a binding and commanding rule to pastors and to the Church to admit none to the visible Church but such as God created members of the first visible Church free of all sinne or because there is a standing obliging rule to Pastors and the Church such as this admit not in the Church of Christ professed Pagans as members thereof but to God there was no rule but his free will by which he created the first visible Church of only saints without any mixture Mr. Robinson and Mr. Hooker both doe wildly misconceive to say no more the distinction of the Lord his discerning will or his eternall purpose and his commanding and revealed will if they suppose as their reasoning doth necessarily argue their mind to the judicious Reader with Socinians and Arminians that every sinne is a crossing of the Lords end and purpose and that 2. God decrceth and intendeth many things that shall never be 3. that God may be frustrated of his ends and purposes and misse the mark in his decrees though they I judge be innocent of any such heresie 4. If by the will of God be here understood the commanding will of God which forbiddeth sinne and enjoyneth what is right as Mr. Hooker and his who approve of this constitution of the Separatists with Mr. Robinson must doe then must the Lord in commanding his pastors and Church to receive Iudas Magus as fit materialls of the visible Church as Mr. Hocker teacheth pag. 23. expressely command sinne which is blasphemy because the holy Lord must command to receive into the visible covenant of grace such as were out of the visible-state of grace and such to be planted in his Church for the glory of his name as served for no other use then to cause his name to be blasphemed CHAP. X. What Mr Hooker fartherbringeth to prove that visible Churches consist of visible Saints MAster Hooker pag. 20. The pinch of the difference lieth in this whether such as walk in a way of profaneness or remain pertinaciously obstinate in some wickedness though otherways professing and practising the things of the Gospel have any allowance from Christ or may be accounted fit matter according to the termes of the Gospel to constitute a Church this is that which is controverted Answ This is a disorderly stating the Question after battl given 2. This pinch of a difference of men walking in pagan profaneness for of such the question must be whether they should be counted fit matter to constitute a visible Church though otherwise they profess and practise the things of the Gospel cometh to this whether walkers professedly after their Idol-Gods and yet professing and practising the Gospel should be counted fit matter of the visible Church We answer Such are not the fit matter of the visible Church and yet are not to be suddenly and wholly debarred from being ordinary hearers so they profess their willingness to hear 2. If the question be of such as are baptized and live within the Church as ordinary hearers who practise and profess the things of the Gospel we say these are already within the Church by their baptisme and profession and in regard they remain pertinaciously wicked though baptized and so professing they should be unchurched and cast out 3. That any such as obstinately remain wicked have allowance from Christ that is a command to constitute a visible Church as members is all one as to say whether commandeth Christ men to be members of the Church and to be also pertinaciously wicked which is no plous question for it is whether doth Christ allow men to be hypocrites Or if by allowance from Christ Mr Hooker mean whether doth Christ allow and command the Pastors to own obstinate wicked men as members because they profess and practise the things of the Gospel We answer they ought not to admit or baptise Pagans of that sort and if they be baptised and so wickedly they profess they ought to cast them out CHAP. XI Other arguments of Mr Hooker for the constitution of a Church of onely visible Saints MAster Hooker par 1. ch 2. pag. 25 26. Q. What is required of a man of years to fit him in the judgment of the Church for baptisme that and so much is required to make him a member But visible holiness is required to fit a man of years to be baptized The consequence admitteth no denial because to be baptized and to be admitted a member infer each other The assumption is proved by the constant practise of John Baptist Matth. 3. 5 6. where Jerusalem Judea Scribes people and souldiers came to be baptized of him they confessed their sins it was a confession that amounted to repentance so John verse 7. bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and amendment of life Luke 3. 6. What shall we do the Apostle answers Acts 2. 38. repent and be baptized the works of repentance and the aime of baptisme do import as much remission of sins calleth for such competent knowledge of Christ as may make way for the sight of the need of a Saviour and also of a going to him Answ. This argument may pass current with these that deny Infant-baptisme which Mr H. and his do not but if to be baptized say that the baptized is a member of the Church must not either the infants of Church-members be not baptized with them and so no members of the Church which is strange or may I not argue thus with Anabaptists against Mr Hooker What is required of a man of years to fit him for baptisme in the judgment of the Church is also required to make him one within the covenant of grace But onely to be born of believing parents maketh a man of years in the judgment of the Church to be within the covenant of grace Ergo onely to be born of visible parents maketh a man of years fit to be baptized The
hearing 2. saying Men and brethren what shall we doe 3. joyning in ordinances with the Apostles 4. Some expressing of joy in hearing the word possibly in their countenance The rest were reall 1. They were pricked in heart not visibly but really so Calvin Bezâ— Gualther Sarcerius Brentius Bullingerus as also before them Chrysostome Hieronymus Cyrillus Hierosolomytanus this cannot but be reall 2 They were added unto the Church M. H. granteth that the holy Ghost in Luke spoke this Now the Apostles acting as ordinary Pastors in a fallible way as our brethren say they acted here could not see this internall adding made by the Lord ver 47. The Lord added to the Church c. he added not Ananias and Saphira thus and their receiving the word with gladnesse of heart ver 47. must be reall and internall gladnesse of heart as their eating of bread with gladnesse and singlenesse of heart all which as they were not visible to the Apostles so being reall must be ascribed by an ordinary figure to the greatest part Now that Ananias and Saphira were such reall members pricked in heart or received the word with joy Luke sayeth not But M. H sayeth it without warrant of the word CHAP. XV. Other arguments of M. H. and his answers are considered as of the draw-net Mr. H. pag. 28 29. to arg 2. If the visible Church be a draw-net where are fish and filth a house where are vessels of gold and baser vessels of wood and brasse then a rightly constituted Church there may be where are believers and hypocrites Ans. The argument is wholly yeilded and the cause not touched much lesse concluded as may appeare by the state of the question in a right meaning Ans. 1. This argument may be wholely yielded but is not my argument I referre the Reader to the place of my book where this is first propounded The argument is much mistaken and is not drawen from visible Churches as they are de facto and through abuse though I speak to that also which I am willing to dispute with any who will defend M. H. in his survey My argument is from visible Churches as they were at first planted and constituted lawfully and to all that read with any considerable attention planted according not to the permissive decree of God according to which I tell M. Barrow many hypocrites are de facto in the visible Church lawfully constitute but according to the revealed will of precept Hence take the argument according to my mind if the visible kingdome and Church of Christ at both its first planting in fieri and it s after constitution in facto esse consist not according to the decree but even according to the revealed and approving and commanding will of God of good fish and of bad and filth and of vessels of honour and of dishonour then the visible Church consisteth not of such Saints only as must be reall converts in the judgement of charity But the former is true M. H. might have known that I of purpose closed up this mouse-hole non semel not once but twenty times the proposition is from the scope of the Parable which as worthy Calvin sayeth that nikil novum c. that our Saviour teacheth no new thing but by a new similitude the same which he taught in the parable of the tares only as Mr. Dickson hath judiciously observed That hence the visible Church in the way of gathering members and manner of constitution thereof is like a draw-net taking in a I who professe subjection to Christ in his ordinances good and bad To which as for the purpose it is also most false that the Lord tacitly commands such Pastors as cast out the net of the preached Gospell to fish no souls in a Pastorall Church-way but these who in their judgement of charity savour of being with Iesus as sayeth M. H. survey par 1. c. 2. pag. 14 15 and so are good fish and reall converts Whereas the Lord commands Pastors not to look whether they be converted or not in their judgement leave that to God and call in as many as ye find Matth. 22. 9. Luk. 14. 17 18 23. Call in fools and simple ones Prov. 9. 4. which indeed to M. Hooker is a sinne and a prophaning of the holy things of God O saith M. H. Beware ye Pastorally call any or preach to any Pastorally but such as in charity you judge converts and these only and none other sayeth M. Lâ—ckyer As for the Parable of the tares Let them grow untill harvest Parâ—us most judiciously he forbids not to use discipline simply but use it not so with such rigor or imprudently when the wheat is in hazard to be plucked up but use it not when the wheat may be hurted and rooted out 2. The conceit of degenerated members to be tolerated for a while will not help the matter for the draw-net of the preached Gospel is to be cast out at the first admission of members before the members be degenerated 3. How shall our brethren make it out that the bad noteth the latent hypocrites only that are not seen because they are under the water but the bad noteth aswell the open hypocrites and so did the Donatists answer Augustine as our brethren doe but Augustine replyed that the Church is the barne-floore where the wheat is hid and the chaffe seen But sure the preachers are not to be led by their own judgement who are really good or really non converts and bad for it is the command of Christ that the bad that is the non-converted be brought in that they may be converted and keeped in except the whole lump be in danger to be infected that they may be made good Mr. H. p. 29. The like may be said to the man who came without the wedding garment he carried it so cunningly that none perceived it but the Master Ans. Mr. H. must say The servants judged him once to have a wedding garment else they should not have invited him to come Saith the Text that or Mr. H. onely If the former then they sin who invite and call externally any but such as have a wedding garment So the Donatists said 2. Mr. H. contradicts his own Book of Discipline expresly The rest of my arguments are above vindicated Mr. H. p. 31. The examples of Solomon tolerating Idolatry of Asa breaking out into persecution hurt Mr. R. cause for then the openly scandalous may be received in Ans. These Kings obstinately persisting in such evils are neither to be admitted nor kept in how far Solomon strayed is hard to determine Amesius after P. Martyr teacheth That he neither worshipped Images nor believed them to be God nor brought them to the Temple Augustine excuseth him that he fell as Adam to please his wives Asa at his worst was fitter to be admitted a Member than Magus at his best nor can the time
of Asa his continuing obstinately in these evils be well known M. H. M. Ruthurfurd maintainâ— That such as are admitted must 1. Not be scandalous 2. Must be baptized after the order of Christ 3. They must by their profession notifie that they are true believers Ans. How they are not scandalous how baptized in Christs order and so must repent for their own personal comfort and salvation is to be tried Ergo They must be to us real converts before they be admitted is a feeble consequence The third I never require before they be admitted Members M. cannot reade that in my writings but forged it of his own as is answered by me Mr. H. p. 32 33. If I must not enter willingly into any unnecessary civil society with such as have a shew of godliness and deny the power thereof and such as are named brethren but are idolatrous far less should I enter into a spiritual society of faith with them Ans. What this reasoning meaneth I know not But 1. it is unlawful to you to enter your self a visible married Member of that Church where one is to be admitted who is known to be a scandalous hypocrite as he is described 2 Tim. 3 1 2 3. Yea suppose in all Churches you finde some scandalous you are to joyn to some visible Church on earth But this is 1. Unlawful for say that one would refuse to marry any at all because no woman on earth could satisfie his minde hardly could that single life be lawful if God give not the gift of continency But say it were lawful to live single and to marry none because of such humorous impediments yet it cannot be lawful to live out of all Church-fellowship without all Church-ordinances suppose you were in an Island where one onely Church is 2. Suppose one be married and fixedly joyned to such a Congregation and divers Members turn like the Members of the Church of Sardis divers become such as are 2 Tim. 3. 2. Lovers of their own selves covetous boasters proud blasphemers disobedient to parents c. the Apostle saith We are to turn away from such now the Elders and Flock refuse to câ—… them out If that turning away 2 Tim. 3. be meant of separating from the Church we must not turn away from them except the Church to which we were married give us leave which were strange And it is like this is not Mr. Hookers sense for he maketh it less free to turn away from a Church to which you are married than not to joyn to it as it is less free to the man to leave the wise to whom he is once married than not to marry and so he makes the Church a Prison As for the place 1 Cor. 5. he forbids intire conversing with the Excommunicate Bullinger he forbiddeth intimate fellowship with them Mayer saith it is the arguing of Anabaptists which yet pious Mr. H. here followeth We should not eat with them Ergo we should not joyn in Church duties with them But Augustine citeth Cyprian Because we see tares in the Church yet let us not separate from the Church for saith Augustine When the godly and the wicked partake of the same Sacrament neither the cause nor the person is hurt Entring in Church-fellowship some one or other though there be some scandalous persons tolerated and desended in all the Churches is not voluntary as to marry or not to marry but a necessary Ordinance of God for he lives as a heathen in a condition of sinning who is a Member of no visible Church Mr. H. These are not sufficient requisites in one to be a Member which may be in a drunkard who is not to be a Member but to be cast out Ergo to be kept out But these three assigned by Mr. R. 1. To profess the Faith 2. Eagerly to desire the Seals 3. To desire Church-fellowship counting it a disparagement not to be born again if not admitted to the Sacraments may agree to a drunkard Ans. For the ordinary drunkard he is either born and baptized in the Church or he is a Pagan and an ordinary drunkard having these three If the former be said he is born a Member of the Church and so the question is concerning his casting out not concerning his receiving in I confess I know not how Mr. H. could answer the question himself concerning children born in their Church of Parents Father Mother that are Church Members though such live 60 or 70 years never baptized and have these three requisites and be free of gross scandals they could not admit such to the Lords Supper The Ministers should have some extraordinary call of God to preach to such as Paul had to go to preach in Macedonia Act. 16. for by our Brethrens way they have no right by way of Covenant from the parents but onely a providential right to preach the Gospel which requires an extraordinary Apostolick cast As for the other if the man be a born heathen and shall come to get these three requisites and profess as Magus did he is to be received a Member but if he hath not these three requisites for he lives in Sorcery as Magus and Elymas and opposeth the Gospel the openly lying profession is scandalous such a profession Mr. R. faith is not his requisites If he be a Pagan and continue in habitual drunkenness he may be holden out while he gives evidences to others of amendment and then he may be admitted to the outer court as a heater though a profession of faith if not belied with worshipping of false gods can hardly consist with Paganism CHAP. XVI Of the principal and prime subject of all the Priviledges of special note bestowed in the Mediator Christ upon the Church Mr. H. p. 1. cap. 3. pag. 23. 1. WHether the invisible Church be the principal prime and onely subject of the Seals of the Covenant pa. 3. Ans. It is not such a subject by any argument that Mr. R. brings But Mr. H. frameth a question of straw as if I had moved it and disputes against Mr. R. My words are The invisible not the visible Church is the principal prime and onely subject with whom the Covenant of Grace is made to whom all the Promises do belong and to whom all titles styles properties and priviledges of special note in the Mediator de belong p. 248. The Promises are preached to the whole visible Church but for the Elects sake yet they belong in Gods intention and gracious purpose onely to the Elect of God and his redeemed ones to that invisible Body Spouse Sister whereof Christ alone is Lord Heâ—d Husband I wonder then if Mr. H. did reade my book when he will dispute such a Question with me 1. Whether the invisible Church and the Elâ—ct be the prime subject of the Seals A question that hath no sense nor any favour from Mr. R. For can the Elect of which some are not born eat and drink
c. that are detestable to God not dear to God as every where the Scripture teacheth Mr. H. p. 40. The visible Church is called The Body of Christ 1 Cor. 12. 27. 28. Ans. The visible Church in the sense of Mr. H. as including Magus Iudas as such is not Christs body 2. Nothing is proved except it be made out that all and every one in Corinth were lively Members under the Head Christ in the judgement of charity otherwise it is a sinful addition to the Text. Mr. H. A Church may be visibly in Covenant which hath not an infallible assistance may erre in fundamentals fall away and not endure as the dayes of heaven and so are his first and fifth arguments answered Ans. It is I consess soon done if well Ans. It is true if men entertain such things as they call truths when they are but lies of Arminians it will be easie to wipe away all with a dry Negoconclusionem My first argument to prove that the invisible and not the visible single Congregation is the principal prime and onely proper subject of all the priviledges of special note given in the Mediator Christ is Par. 1. pag. 244 245. because that is such a subject of all these priviledges to which onely and principally the Promises belong that they are a seed enduring as the dayes of heaven Psa. 89. and can no more cease to be in Gods Covenant favour than the Ordinances of heaven can cease to be Jer. 31. 35 36. then the Mountains can depart Isa. 54. 10 c. But the visible Church of a Congregation is not such c. Judge Reader of the answer The fifth Argument Because the invisible Church of the Elect is such as cannot erre in fundamentals cannot fall from the Rock and not the visible Church of the Congregation whereof seven may be a Church and six of them such materials as Magus nor can such a Congregation bear as the first onely and prime subject these styles say I pag. 250. that are proper onely to the Elect Redeemed and really sanctified Church the styles of Christs Sister Love Dove Spouse Mystical Body of Christ. Mr. H. answers by yielding the Assumption A Church may be visibly in Covenant may erre in fundamentals may fall away And this is Mr. R. first and fifth Arguments Hence if perseverance and never falling away be a special priviledge given in the Mediator Christ and it agree not to the Congregational the onely visible Church and if it agree not to all visible Congregations then is not the visible Church the onely principal subject of such priviledges since the world was no Logick can say that a property can be denied of its first and onely subject That is a man and yet is not apt to laugh 2. To be visibly in Covenant is not a priviledge of special note that is a saving priviledge such as Perseverance to have the anointing and a new heart Of which saving priviledges I spake all along pag. 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 c. for to be visibly in Covenant agrees to Magus and to all rotten Members but these saving priviledges of perseverance agree not to Mr. H. his visible Church which may and doth fall away saith Mr. H. Judge then if these two Arguments be wiped away with a wet finger as saith Mr. Hooker Mr. H. p. 40 41. A Church may be visibly redâ—emed by the blood of God be called the Body of Christ the Sons and Daughters of God and yet not be really and inwardly such which is his second Argument The third is answered already Ans. This is with a hop and a skip to take away Arguments 1. Mr. H. should have done so much as repeaâ—ed the Argument But to be really redeemed to be the Body of Christ to be really to be I say in veritate rei the Sons and Daughters of God and not to be called so onely a generation of Vipers call themselves Matth. 3. the holy seed are priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ as I spake pag. 244. and these priviledges agree not to the visible and nominal Church of which Magus is a Citizen as to the principal prime and onely subject as Mr. H. yieldeth and so yieldeth the Argument 2. A Church may be both visibly the Redeemed of God and called and be really the Body of Christ and invisibly be also the Redeemed of God by a figure as touching the sound and real visible Saints among them but that destroys Mr. H. his cause who will have all and every one in the judgement of charity redeemed even so many as are fed with Word and Censures 3. Mr. H. should have applied his answer to the Arguments but he saw it would not frame I have done it Let the second thoughts of some help here For Mr. H. must apply his answers to the cited places so Ier. 31. 33. I will put my law in their inward parts according to the judgement of charity and Ier. 32. I will put my fear in their hearts according to the judgement of charity And when the Lord saith I was a husband to Israel that is in the judgement of charity Isa. 53. He was stricken for the transgression of my people that is visible Saints and for Magus for my confederate people in the judgement of charity Ah! â—ee not men dare to adde their after-birth inventions to the truth of God Therefore Mr. H. addeth pag. 40 They who hold that a visible Church is redeemed externally cannot say by any good inference that Christ died for all such in Gods intention or that all such are chosen to glory or that God intendeth to save all such Ars. This is said not proved If Christ die for the whole world in the judgement of charity he must intend and decree in the same judgement of charity to save them by his death else he is conceived to die for them upon no intention at all I judge Christs dying for us essentially includes his intention to save to deliver from the present evil world Gal. 1. 4. If therefore this charitable judgement of Mr. H believed Christ died for all the Members of the Church of Ephesus suppose Magus to be a baptized Member he must in the same judgement believe that God intended to save Magus yea and Mr. H. must believe in charity by his death he intends to save all and every one in the visible Church all the earth over and so did choose to glorifie all the visible Saints and consequently all nations Isa. 2. 1 2. all Aegypt all Assyria Isa. 19. 25. all the Gentiles Isa. 60. 1 2 3 c. all the Kingdoms of the world Rev. 11. 15. for they are all the visible Kingdoms and Churches of Christ and charity shall forbid to believe that there be one reprobate in the visible Churches and shall necessitate Mr. H. to believe that God intends salvation and so chose to salvation every man and woman of them But
neither per se nor per participationem as the Sun and Stars are neither hot nor cold either firstly or secondarily for they are Aristotle saith Corpora quintae essentiae bodies of a fifth essence different from the elements and all mixed bodies Mr. H. p. 42 43. The Olive tree is the prime subject of the fatness that issues from it and appertains to it and of all the Ordinances But the visible Church Rom. 11. is the Olive the seals and other priviledges are part of the fatness which pertains thereunto Therefore the visible Church is the prime subject of them That the Olive is the visible Church see Beza Pareus Willet Ans. 1. Will Mr. H. bide by this Conclusion That the visible Church including rotten Magus trayterous Iudas is the prime subject of all saving priviledges of the new heart Gods inward heart-teaching perseverance c Then by his own argument Magus and the visible body whereof he is a graceless member as visible must be first qualified inherently with all these saving priviledges as heat is firstly saith he in the fire and then Justification Perseverance in grace must be transferred from such an ugly body as Magus Iudas c. to real and invisible believers 2. The Assumption is false Reade again Calvin Beza Pareus adde Pet. Martyr The English Notes Diodati they expound not the Olive of the visible Church onely as contradistinguished from the invisible as Mr. H. takes the visible Church in this dispute as it includes the whole visible Israel even Idolaters who slew the Prophets and the Heir But the Church visible including the Election Rom. 11. 7. and also the invisible and really justified and by fatness they mean not onely external priviledges which the rotten hypocrites wanted not but the juyce and sap of saving grace by which saith Pet. Martyr They that are far off are made nigh Ephes. 2. 12 14. and were engrafted in the Head and Body saith Pareus yea Willet citeth Gorham and Lyra who expound the fatness of habitual grace Mr. H. Let Mr. R. remember he said lib. 2. pag. 260. None are to be cast out for non-regeneration known to be such But if ye give them the seals saith Mr. H. the Church shall give the seals to such whom she knows have no right to them Ans. Mr. H. himself is alike burthened with this as I am A toleration there must be of some until the scandals be examined and Censures applied and the Church knows men to be unregenerated many dayes before they can know it juridicè Let Mr. H. then answer whether they should be debarred from the seals or not 2. If such were admitted being free of scandal it follows not its a poor begging of the question that the Church should admit to the seals such as she knows hath no right Why because they are not in the judgement of charity real converts that is non causa pro causa no cause Mr. H. Mr. R. puts the formalis ratio the essential reason of Offices and Officers in another subject besides the visible Church in the invisible Catholick Church convertibly or reciprocally and universally Whatsoever hath these priviledges to wit Offices Officers Seals right to the Seals c. is the invisible Catholick Church And onely the invisible Catholick Church Ergo not the visible hath all these priviledges If Mr. R. rid his hands c. it s good Ans. Mr. H. hath two pages near by of this of which whether I have rid my hands let the judicious Reader determine Know Reader that Mr. H. will have all priviledges external Offices Officers Seals and right Ecclesiastick which is formally a painted bastard right in the visible Church onely as its first subject I rid my hands of this by granting it take the visible Church in a good sense as including good and bad nor said I ever any thing to the contrary But these are not the saving priviledges of special note such as to be taught of God to persevere in saving grace c. as I oft say p. 244 245 c. And though Mr. H. his priviledges to be an Apostle or another Officer to have right external to the seals a bastard right agree to the visible Church yea to Iudas and Magus they being gratiae gratis datae yet saving priviledges the anointing the new heart Justification Perseverance the styles of Spouse Sister Love Dove c. are such as I desire Mr. H. to rid his hands and to clear the coasts to us by his answer to my words Due right par 1. pag. 244 245. divers pages how these agree reciprocally to his visible Church I take but some few The single Congregatinn of such as Magus and Peter c. is the first and reciprocal and proper subject of the anointing of justification and perseverance And convertibly All that have the anointing are justified persevere are onely the single independent Congregation of such as Magus and Peter c. What then will Mr H. do with his own that are both visibly and invisibly justified regenerate who by persecution or pestilence are broken from the Independent Church Shall they not share of the anointing because they are not Members of the single Congregation This is hard measure to the godly and bad Divinity This is not good Logick that therefore Mr. R. must shew some other essential causes of Offices and Officers besides the invisible Church He must mean the visible Church of which Magus is a Member I know in Logick that the subject is an essential cause of an accident Subjectum sumitur in dâ—finitione per additamentum I learned long ago And for the close the society the saving priviledges of the new heart perseverance is the invisible Church and all that have these the anointing perseverance c. is the invisible mystical true Church I own this reciprocation as new Logick though let not the Reader mistake I take invisible as opposed to visible in its latitude as it takes in both believing Peter and the hypocrite Magus yet so as the visible Church is so named to wit a true visible Church from the choicest part but not as invisible is opposed to visible tali modo both visible and sincere for the Catholick Church invisible is also the Catholick Church visible to wit tali modo in a sincere profession visible CHAP. XIX Mr. H. his formal cause of a Church visible or Church confederating is considered Mr. H. We have done with the material cause Now we come to the formal cause of the visible Church The faithful whether they be seemingly or sincerely such scattered up and down the earth are like stones in the streets or timber in the field they may have a communion by faith by which they are an invisible Body Mystical but until they meet together in one place and have right to all the Ordinances there and be confederate by a Church-Covenant which gives the formality to these Churches they are not visible
Church members Ans. If the faithful scattered in sundry Congregations have an invisible communion onely by faith and so make up an invisible communion and an invisible Mystical Body then two Sister-Churches that cannot meet in one place though they may do all the duties of Church-gaining one another as Mat. 18. yet are not a visible body noâ— their acts acts of Church-profession not are they visible members of the same Body of Christ because they partake noâ— of the Ordinances within the same walls as do members of the same single Congregation so there is no visible communion but within the walls of one Church which is absurd and repugnant to common sense 2. It is uncharitable and against the Word to teach That when a Church is dissolved by no sin and scandal visible but by persecution or pestilence that the dissolved members though both real and visible converts have no right to the Ordinances for if the formal cause to wit their confederacy into one visible body as Mr. H. saith be removed their visible and external right is removed The like is to be said of visible professors and of members of another Congregation and known godly sojourners these Mr. H. excommunicates for no scandal visible and invisible for impossible it is that they can meet together in one place with their own Church with which onely they are incorporate by this confederacy Mr. H. This confederating implieth two 1. The act of mutual engaging which passeth away arising from the act of obligation the state of membership The nature of incorporating members to mutual duties will constrain to yield to this Ans. 1. An Oath or Covenant is no passing away thing as Mr. H. saith but leaveth the person under the tie 2. The state of trying these persons and their seed to be baptized onely into the single Body is a dream even to Mr. Robinson and the engagement that gives them right to Ordinances onely with that single Congregation and in one place and with no society else to partake of one Bread and of one Christ 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. is a Scriptureless imagination for 1 Cor. 12. 12 13. We are baptized all Iews and Gentiles by one Spirit into one Body Catholick not a single Congregation onely and are all made to drink into one Spirit in the Lords Supper even all not of one single Congregation onely but of several Congregations whether they be engaged Mr. Hâ— way or not Mr. H. The judgement must be of persons free in regard of humane constraint for they may joyn or not joyn to this Congregation to receive them or not receive them 2. It gives power to each over another to watch over one another Answ. Mr. H. makes three properties of this engagement but he is sharp-sighted who can difference the third from the first 2. Freedom from humane constraint iâ— dubious If from the Christian Magistrate compelling to Elicite acts of the will Never man I think dreamed of such constraint as may be laid upon men to believing loving fearing If it be freedom from compelling the external man to Imperate acts our Divines say The Magistrate may civilly in his way compel to the means of Salvation the baptized ones especially both to hear and to eat and drink at the Lords Table in some true Church If it be freedom from a Law of God or the Church constraint as this it must be or then nothing is said 1. God hath commanded all to come to the house Pro. 1. â—0 Prov. 9. 1 2 3. Matth. 22. 3 4 5 6. Luk. 14. 16. And that is a Prophesie to be fulfilled under the New Testament Zach. 14. 17. And it shall be that who so will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King the Lord of hosts even upon them there shall be no rain The English notes say it figures the Elects gathering together into a particular Church to which every one must reduce himself to partake of the communion of Saints And they are also the words of Diodati and Calvin Iunius Piscator Danaeus say the same in sense It is true preaching to a particular Church should be voluntary but not by such a Covenant and so all worship should be and it were not enough to say Lord thou commandest us to get us to the shepherds tents Cant. 1. 7. And to come into Wisdoms house but we have freedom to enter Members to this or this or all the Churches on earth 2. And it is in all the Churches on earths power to receive us or not which is also false One is born baptized comes to be a visible professor in the Church of Boston is not that providential necessity a ground to the Magistrate to command him to do his duty and for the Church to constrain him by Obâ—estations Censures being born a member to partake of the Ordinances as his duty is O but he is not satisfied with the Ministery of Boston but he hath freedom to enter a Member of a Church a hundred miles distant by a new Church-oath shew a warrant why he ought not to worship the Lord there where his Calling and Trade is he must confess Christ before men in all places it is not arbitrary then 3. Not one word of God is alledged that this engagement gives power to watch over one another in this Congregation onely and not in all Congregations where Providence shall dispose he shall be as if all these Church-duties to Members of Christ of warning one another comforting watching over one another taking care for one another mourning with those that mourn Col. 3. 16. 1 Thess. 5. 5 11 14. 1 Cor. 12. 26 27. Heb. 10. 24 25. 3. 13. Rom. 12. 15. were forbidden as contrary to the Rule of the Gospel in order to all precious Church-membes of other Congregations of which we are not Members Mr. H. There is good cause why visible Saints uâ— supra who are thus to engage to watch over one another should be acquainted with each others fitness c. and because the work is weighty it would be done with fasting and praying which is not requisite when one single Member is admitted Ans. That the thousands baptized of Iohn Baptist and the three thousand Acts 2. who were to engage themselves that is before they were admitted could have acquaintance and knowledge of the spiritual fitness one of another is impossible and not onely wants the authority of the Word but is expresly against it for it was impossible in some few hours to be done 2. Ten neighbouring sister Churches lying together are obliged to watch over one another then they ought by the Rule of the Gospel to come under the same engagement Mr. H. An implicite covenanting may be sufficient as suppose a Congregation consist of the children of Parents expresly confederate but vocal and express confederation comes nearest to the Rule Mr. R. his bitter clamours that we make all
other Churches save our own no Church will be past Ans. The Popish and Lutheran Churches in which there is valid Baptism in which a Vow is made to walk in Church-wayes as observing one another shall have the formal cause of true visible Churches and so must be true visible Churches for they have this Covenant implicitely and virtually 2. How shall we be made from the Scriptures to see that the Baptist Mar. 1. 5. the Disciples of Christ who baptized moe disciple than Iohn Joâ— 5. 4. did tye by Oath one way or another and the Covenant being their complete Rule must be vocal and express are they so inchurched to engage to these Church-duties within their own Congregations the word hints at no such thing 3. There is a necessity of vocal Covenant always if it come nerest to the rule but where is the rule 4. What making of matter and form as so described and what reciding from the Rule of these Churches in the essentials is so well known to all as they must be most false Churches that are not made of visible converts which is the constitution of the Anabaptist Churches for bitter clamours and unworthy aspersions I wish Mr. H. had expressed them that the Reader might judge I judge that the Church of Christ in N. E. makes true the prophecy That the wilderness and the desert do there rejoyce and blossom as a Rose Isa. 35. 5. Judicious Mr. Cawdrey citeth Dr. Holmes making an explicite Covenant necessary Mr. H. Cohabitation which is necessary for our Churches is such as is fit for the end for the dispensing of Ordinances and Câ—nsures where they may conveniently meet Acts 14 27. 1 Cor. 11. 26. 14. 23. it suffers some exceptions The Church may send out some to begiâ—…â—…antations where they want able guides until they attain to a Church-state States may be compelled to send men to Sea for traffique and for war and yet no prejudice is done to the Rule of Christ they are said to cohabit where the place of their abode is in the issue Ans. If cohabitation be necessary for the attaining the end then as the Pastor cannot be a non-resident by necessity of a calling in Trading neither can ten godly Merchants be three years absent as Mr. H. sayes Solomons Merchants were but they must be non-residents and neglect Church watching â—nd break Covenant if it be said as it must be it should be the Ministers onely calling to reside and watch but the Merchant hath an extraordinary calling to trade beside Ans. This confirms us not a little no godly visible professors can tye themselves by Covenant or Oath to exercise the common Christian acts of a Church member onely to such a society but in an occasional and providential way for it is as unlawful to tye Church-worship to one society or place under the New Testament as it was to tie it of old to Bethel Gilgal Hos. 4. 15. 9. 14. 12. 11. Amos 44. which is a demonstration that a godly professor carrieth about a Soul with him stands in need of Church-feeding by the Lords Supper and other Church Ordinances in all the Christian world and that he is to warn admonish comfort all Church members and to labour to gain a trespassing brother not of the single Congregation only whereof he is a Member Matth. 18. and neither Scriptures nor sound Divinity nor the Law of Nature which is not destroyed by the Gospel will warrant to limit the word Brother as Mr. H. doth and his Brethren Matth. 18. 15 If thy brother trespass if he hear thee thou hast gained thy brother to a brother only of the Congregation of which the offended brother is a member as if Christ had not set down a rule Mat. 18. of gaining all brethren within the single Congregation or about it for the word Brother is of this latitude that it comprehendeth 1. All that may offend a Brother that is one not only within a single Congregation only of which the brother offended is a member but also one of another Congregation Now Mr. H. saith ye have no Church power over one of aâ—â—ther Congregation 2. He is a Brother whom ye are obliged to admonish Go tell him 3. He is a Brother whom thou must labour to gain Thou hast gained thy brother 4. He is a Brother who is obliged to hear the Church He will not hear the Church 5. He is a Brother who may be cast out Let him be to thee as a heathen 6. He is one whose sinnes â—ay be bound in Heaven Verse 16 17. 7. He is a Brother who if gained may pray and meet with others in a Church-way in the name of Christ. 8. He is a Brother who if he be gained Christ grants his desire and prayer Verse 19 20. 9. He is a Brother who is to be pardoned If he sin against Peter seventy times seven times Verse 21 22. 10. He is a Brother who ought to forgive his fellow-Brother as he would have God to forgive him Verse 14 25 35. Now it were a foul straitning of the word of Christ to say these ten agree only to a Brother in order to another Brother of the same single Congregation as if we did owe by Christs Doctrine in that notable Sermon Compassion Forgiveness Teaching Gaining c. to no Brethren but to those of the same Congregation where of we our selves are members 2. This Doctrine deprives godly travellers so journers savoury professors of the Lords Supper for three for six years of the Ordinance of the Lords Supper of Church-teaching Rebuking Prayer Church comforts of all Church-manifestations and of all Church communion with Christ the Head of the visible Church of all Church-presence of him that walks in the midst of the golden Candlesticks of all Church-influences of all Sanctuary-beauty for no scandal or sin but onely for going about a lawful duty in all the visible Churches on earth as is clear Cant. 1. 7. 2. 1 2 3 4. Psal. 27. 4. 73. 16 17. 84. 4 42. 1 2 3 4. Hib. 2. 12. Psal. 22. 22. 40 9 10. for it cannot take off the Argument to say The godly professor may have the same comforts but in an invisible way which he hath in his own Church in his native abode in a visible and Church-way for 1. This is to beg the question for hâ—s professed hearing praying with a forreign Church is as visible as at home 2. If Christ no where have deprived a man of the comfort of the Lords Supper whithersoever he come and profess himself a visible Saint no men on earth can deprive him but there is no more warrant why a visible Saint should not every where remember the Lords day by eating as he may pray every where in faith holding up pure hands for as he takes Gods Name in vain if he hate to be reformed so also to banquet with Christ not discerning the Lords body 3.
over these of the Congregation where he sojourns but not in in all cases expedient that he multiply twenty engagements and it may be twenty oathes or solemn promises in twenty sundry congregations so may he engage for a Family Camp Colledge Ship And it is false to say 1. You onely are my Church brethren Matth. 18. 2. It is false to say I have Church-power to the Seals here onely 3. I am made by this engagement a Member of Christ visible whereas I was not so before 4. It is false that when I remove to another Church from this that I losâ— all Church-right to seals all Church-power to gain brethren to Christ there And 5. it is false that when I leave this Church I am unchurched no fellow-citizen with the Saints no Church-member and yet I was never excommunicate 3. The Assumption is most false That by Matth. 18. a brother is to gain onely a brother of that congregation whereof he is a Member Mr. H. aims not to prove that If thy brother trespass c. that our Saviour means onely of that independent congregation whereof the brother is a Member engaged to that onely congregation where the gaining and offended brother is a Member I have alledged ten Reasons on the contrary Mr. H. his Reason is against himself and the Text as well as against us You saith he rebuke one of another congregation he will not hear you tell the other Church he departs the place What then his Church he leaves should proceed to censure him by Matth. 18. And may not a brother of the same Church refuse to hear also and depart the place and the place of Matth. 18. say we proveth that both are to be censured by their own respective Churches as obstinate offenders 4. Mr. R. saith indeed That one Congregation hath no power of Iurisdiction over another but each may complain of another to a Presbytery or to a Church above both else the remedy of Christ to remove scandals between Church and Church is too narrow and very nothing and sister-Churches offending each against others are not to rebuke and labour by Mr. H. his way to gain one another to Christ and nothing can be more contrary to love and edification thâ—n this and more contrary to our Saviours intent Mat. 18. 5. What is the formal binding and loosing which one Congregation hath over another or one Member hath over another of the same or of divers Congregations the Scripture is silent The Churches of divers Congregations lay on burthens and binde other Churches under them Act. 15. 28. and command and enjoyn the things to be believed and done So Mr. Cotton But that one Church-member may binde and loose is unknown to the Scripture for you may say so one Subject may binde and loose forgive debts and bloodshed because he may complain or forbear to complain to the Magistrate and so one Church may binde or loose another Church and one Member may binde or loose a whole Church and many Churches by complaining or not complaining to sound Neighbour-Churches whose it is to unchurch by non-communion or to forbear 6. Mr. H. proves not that Members have not power over each other by this engagement because before the engagement they are free and none can compel them to be Church-members or to be baptized Luk. 7. True but if they reside and refuse to joyn to the true Church and so deny Christ before men and being professors if they refuse to joyn to the true Church of Christ they are to be esteemed as Heathens or Publicans as the Lawyers who refused to be baptized despised the counsel of God Luke 7. 30. and the Gospel-threatnings for refusing to come to Wisdomes banquet Prov. 1. 20 24. 9. 3 4. Luk. 14. 18. are no less bindings and constrainings in their kinde than Church-rebukes of one to another and Excommunication Of this before It is probable and more That a godly Christian conquerour may hinder conquered Heathen to blaspheme Christ and adore Idols and compel them to hear the Gospel 7. It a wonder that Mr. H. should cite Whitaker or any of our Divines who are all for the power of Presbyteries Synods yea of an Oecumenick Councel from Mat. 18. which he himself disclaims as an invention of men Mr. H. Arg. 3. Voluntary combination makes a man a Member of a Presbyterian Church as Mr. R. Lib. 2. pag. 320. thâ—n must voluntary combining make one a Member of a Congregation Answ. Still the point in question is never touched Will this prove that voluntary engagement is the formal cause of a visible Church so Mr. H. tells us ch 4. pag. 45. Of the formal cause of a visible Church Nor doth voluntary combining make any so a Member of this Presbyterial Church as he is not also a Member of the whole visible Church or as he hath no Church right by divine institution to Ordinances and Seals in another Presbyterial and Congregational Church as this way of Mr. H. teacheth for as I say in that place Presbyterial Churches Congregational in their being are of divine institution but in their local bounds and determitate number of Members they are things of conveniency of order and providential necessity not of divine institution and the consequence is poor and nothing for that is a huge mistake of Mr. H. An implicite Covenant is when professors in practise do that whereby they make themselves to walk in such a society without any verbal profession for then a sojourning believer partaking in fourty Churches of the Seals in some few years occasionally doth enter fourty implicite covenants doth fourty times unchurch himself and lose and take up of new his Burges-ticket and Church-right and lose it again For Mr. Cotton and the Way of the Churches of N. E. teach That such a man an hundred times partakes of the Seals in some few years and may lawfully do it as a son coming occasionally to ten sundry Tables in ten cities or ten families which do equally belong to his rich and potent father as he providentially cometh along yet is he not ten times for that made a son and member of his fathers great family for his one and the same numerical sonship gives him right to all the ten tables So one and the same visibly professed sonship gives to a sojourning believer the same Church-right to be fed at all the Tables to all Church ordinances in ten hundred visible Churches all the earth over Letters of recommendation do declare but not create his Church-right to Christ and ten hundred Lords Suppers and it is a dream that the practising and partaking of the Lords Supper gives ten hundred new combinations and fancied formalities of Membership to all the Churches whether Congregational or Presbyterial Say one be necessitated to dwell in his fathers heritage and must be a Member of that Church What Scripture doth loose him from the same occasional duties
he owes to the Church from whence he departed as now being no fixed Member thereof Mr. H. 4 Arg. That society of men who may enjoy such priviledges spiritual into which none are admitted without the approbation of the whole that society must be in a special combination for such an act argueth a combined power which the whole hath and not any Member alone and that they cannot have but by their agreement But the Congregation is such They who have power to choose have power to reject their Officers who offer themselves to be Members Ans. If none may be admitted without the approbation of the whole Congregation then may no visible Saints Members of sister visible Churches be admitted to Church-ordinances Pastoral hearing seals rebukes comforts prayers in a Church-way but by some Covenant one or other made between the Church and these strangers that come to partake Let Scripture speak if communion of Saints be not here enough 2. This fell from a sleeping pen and what the conclusion is who can tell 'T is far from the question for the conclusion is Ergo the Members of the Congregation are combined Why not Valeat totum And the whole Church must admit the communicants the many thousands then ten or twelve thousand of Ierusalem must all be acquainted with the visible Saintship of each other yea women who have taken the Church-covenant as well as men then can none hear nor partake of Church-prayers and seals in another Congregation without the privity and conscience and consent of all the Members suppose they be ten thousand and without the consent of the whole now women are confederate Members as well as men Mr. H. Arg. 5. Christian affection makes not the Church for it is in such as never saw other Ans. It proves nothing they may be Members of the visible Catholick Church who never saw one another in the face Prov. 11. 15. Isa. 2. 1 2. 19. 25. Psa. 22. 27 c. 2. Cohabitation saith Mr. H. and meeting in one place makes not a Church for Turks may meet to hear the Word 1 Cor. 14. Ergo covenanting must be the formal of a Church Ans. 1. Divers other things are required to the essence of a visible Church as we shall hear 2. All is beside the question we dispute not now the essence of a Congregation CHAP. XXI Whether Mr. Hooker doth prove this Conclusion which Mr. R. never said nor wrote nor thought That Baptism gives formality or makes a Member of a visible Church Mr. H. If there be a Church and so Members before Baptism then Baptism cannot give formality for forma is causal and before formatum But the Church now considered as totum essentiale is before Baptism For Ministers are before Baptism else Baptism may be administred lawfully before by such as are not Rulers nor Pastors which is denied by Orthodox Divines and none can give a call to Ministers but onely a Church of believers Ans. It s a conclusion not ingenuously forged as if I made Baptism the specifick form of Membership visible he ought to have cited my words By Baptism I say we are received solemnly into the visible Church and Baptism is a seal of our entry into Christs visible Body as swearing to the colours entreth a Souldier a member to the Army and we teach not that Baptism constituteth the Church visible simply as the Church it s a seal of a visible profession I distinguish the simple being of a visible Member actu primo such are Infants born within the covenant visibly made to parents the promise is made to Church-members Gen. 17. 7. Acts 2. 39. from the solemn entry and admission into the visible Church 2. I distinguish between simple being of a Member and actual solemn communion or visible profession So speaks the renowned Assembly so Calvin Bucan Tilen Professors of Leyden Beza Ursine Trâ—lâ—atius Pet. Martyr Iunius Pareus Waleus it s a seal for our solemn admission and solemn ingraffing and adopting into the visible Church 1 Cor. 12. 13. For by one spirit we are baptized into one body c. 1. The conclusion is fancied and nothing against me who teach That Baptism is the door way and means of our solemn installing into actual communion with the visible teaching Ministerial Church which Arminians and Socinians deny Ergo must Baptism be before the Ministers 2. This fancied homogeneous Church visible of onely believers can be no politick Church and that in ordinary to Christs second coming which calleth Ministers for Ministers did baptize this Church then must the effect to wit called Ministers be before and that ordinarily the creating cause to wit the Church of believers who made them Ministers a dream If this homogeneous Church be a number of unbaptized believers and such Pagans they must be for Mr. H. saith They are a born Church before their fathers Baptizers then must unbaptized children a strange Church call and give Ministerial being and that ordinarily to their fathers and choose out of their own unbaptized body their own Pastors not yet baptized and who baptized these unbaptized not the unbaptized Church nor themselves Mr. H. I judge would deny both 3. As to that Whether the Church or the Ministery be first it is sure Adam and Evah as men were before the Word if any say They being created according to the Image of God were created a Church yet some priority there is of the subject before the concreated Law but sure they were not created a visibly professing Church and therefore the Word as preached in Paradise by the Lord the first Minister Gen. 3. 15 16. must be before Adam and Evah as a visibly professing Church For the seed is before the tree the means before the end the father before the childe and so some Ministery ordinary or extraordinary begetting there must be before the Church begotten Who baptized Iohn Baptist or if he was at all baptized is not much But that the Church in the ordinary way of Christ is before the baptizing and begetting Ministery is wilde Divinity Mr. H. If Baptism cannot be before a Ministerial Church nor a Ministerial Church before a Congregational Church which onely can call them to be Ministers then such a Church is much more before Baptism For before the coming of some godly zealous Christian and Scholar into a countrey where there are a company of Pagans converted they may joyn in Church-fellowship and call this man lawfully according to God to be their Minister therefore there is a Church before a Minister and so before Baptism Ans. 1. Mr. H. gives an extraordinary instance of his own devising without Scripture and of this he frames a fixed ordinary Rule May not converted Pagans which onely saith he can call Ministers call this Christian Scholar to be their Minister according to God No say we 1. God never did it nor is there any Scripture-proof for it 2. Why doth Mr. H. frame
a new instance of his own and pass by the Lords way For God sends not private men or Christian unofficed Scholars or if he do their extraordinary sending makes them publick Pastors and Prophets not the people but he sent Philip an Evangelist and after Peter and Iohn to Samaria Act. 8. Paul to Macedonia Act. 16. and his own Ministers Tit. 1. 5. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 5. 22. Paul and Barnabas men in office some more than zealous Christians and Scholars to the Gentiles Act. 13. Ionah to Niniveh Ananias to baptize Paul Jon. 3. Act. 9. 3. Doth not Mr. H. dress up a providence of a Christian Scholar sent to converted Pagans and must they be made the ordinary and onely Church who can call Ministers and this Scholar being unbaptized himself must as the married Pastor in the ordinary way of Christ baptize to his dying day others and his calling must be null say our Brethren except that onely Church call him and according to the ordinary Rule of Christ he must be all his life unbaptized which must be a reputing of Baptism with the Familâ—st a thing indifferent rather than he own a forreign jurisdiction as Mr. Lockier speaketh so as to be baptized by a Pastor of another Church Mr. H. If Baptism give the form to visible Membership then while that remaineth valid as it doth in excommunicated persons and when the Church is dissolved visible Membership must remain for where the form is the formatum the thing having such a form must be also for Relata se mutuò ponunt tâ—llunt Ans. The conclusion is fancied and nothing against me 2. There be two things in baptized Members 1. God is their God of Egypt and Assyria fathers and sons under the New Testament as the Prophecy is Isa. 2. 1 2. 19. 25. 60. 1 2 3. Rev. 11. 15. 2. Infants are holy as the root 1 Cor. 7. 13 14. Rom. 11. 16. and it must be cruel divinity to say That fathers and feed broken off an Independent Church through persecution and no sin in them are by the Lord cast out of visible covenanting with God and from Membership and Church right to the Seals nor is Baptism any wayes removed 2. There is the solemnity of admission by Baptism in the excommunicate this is hurt but it s no more to me the formal cause of Membership than the ceremony of Coronation or the delivery of a Sword is the specifick form of a King and of a Major and therefore all is granted and Mr. H. proves nothing M. H. Baptism is but a separable accident to the covenant its efficacy may be hindered by the unworthy receiver and yet it remains in its own nature to the excommunicate and dissolved member for the form can never be removed from the thing formed If to be the eldest son be the formal cause of possession it could never have been taken away But to be a well-deserving heir is that whâ—ch gives formality of possession Ans. 1. It is a wonder that M. H. cannot find valid arguments to bear a free conclusion For to me Baptism is not a means of a Church-membership simply but of a Church-member tali modo that is of a member conspicuously and solemnly differenced from a Pagan 2. It is bad Divinity to join the nocent excommunicate man with the innocent dissolved member 3. It is a naughty argument to prove that Baptism is a separable accident of the covenant why because its efficacy may be hindered by unbelief for the efficacy of any thing is the actus secundus the operation of it not its essence so he may prove that Christ the essential subject of the Gospel is a separable accident of the Gospel and covenant of Grace because both the efficacy of the Gospel and of the Redeemer by mens unworthiness and unbelief is hindered 4. He concludes not so much as his own fansied conclusion to wit this only ergo the efficacy of baptism is not the specified form of visible membership valeat totum what Dreamer said any such thing it is sure baptism in fieri as it is administrate and professed is the means of the excommunicate mans solemn installing and engaging to be a follower of Christ and by the scandal that brings on excommunication baptism as professed and as binding is so far hurt as the Covenant-Baptismal is violated and if the man be excommunicate for Apostasy then it is disputable whether Baptism be not quite undone 5. It is weak moral Philosophy which Mr. H. addeth that well deserving in an heir gives formality to possession Well deserving gives just and Law-right to possession in the heir But he is a weak Lawyer who would so plead the innocent Traveller believing in God hath due deserving to his own purse which yet is in the bloody Robbers pocket Why Mr. H. saith he hath well deserving which saith he is the formal cause of possession and so he must have possession for the formal cause cannot be separated from formatum And so godly David unjustly expelled from his Kingdom for many years yet deserving well must have right both to possess his Kingdom and not possess it for if he have the formal cause of possession he must have possession when he is expelled Mr. H. It shall follow that the Church of Rome is a true Church for all the members of that Church have true baptism which is the formal cause of a true Church but that is false that that Church is a true Church Ans. The conclusion of the connex proposition is nothing against me who deny Baptism to be the formal cause of Membership 2. Such a Baptism that is valid as touching the substance of the seal as is in Rome such a Church according to the Metaphysick entity and being of a Church is Rome a Ministerial Church teaching necessary fundamentals though darkning and contradicting all but it is not morally a true Church but leprose and unclean See what Iunius Whitaker Calvin and Rivetus say hereupon Mr. H. is far from their sound expressions if this be true then to Iezabel and seducing Teachers who are under the Church-covenant the formal cause of membership must appertain and they must be Church-members and must be tolerate till they be judicially tried and censures applyed so Mr. H. and Church priviledges bestowed on them at the command of Christ. So also Mr. H. So visible non-converts and swine adorned with Pearls contrary to Christs command Matth. 7. 6. and yet keeping the essential form of visible Saints must be visible Converts Which is a contradiction Mr. H. The seal of our incorporation which is latter and posterior to the incorporation cannot be the form of it for the Sacrament is not appointed to make a thing that was not but to confirm that was or it doth not give but confirm grace But such is Baptism Ans. The conclusion is not against me 2. Observe that Mr. H. sides with Arminians
way interest of existence to grow in the Hand and another way interest of existence to grow in the body and in all the parts of it it is a member or part of the hand and also of the whole body but the Thumb hath no possible interest of existence to grow in the head in the leg And so is Iohn a near and fixed member of the congregation of Boston and a common and remoter member of the whole integral Catholick Churches of Hartford of Cambridge of Norwich and of all the congregations on earth but it follows not Ergo Iohn hath an interest of exâ—stence to be fed and to exist at one time in all the congregations on earth as the common nature of man of substantia corpus vivâ—ns animal homo exists in all the individuals at once It is wilde Logick to put no difference between a whole integral and the parts and whole essential and the parts subjective or species and individuals so as one integral member may exist at the same place where all the members exist Mr. H. That which equally belongs to all that can make no particular appropriation to any out rather than to another if a woman love all Christian men with Christian affection she is not therefore a wife to this or that man but this profession is equal and indifferent as well to one and to all as to another Ans. All is granted for we teach not that profession as profession makes a man a fixed and a married member of this Independent Congregation rather than this so that it shall be spiritual Adultery to partake of Church ordinances elswhere we detest such a comparison destructive to Church-communion for profession as profession declares the man to the Rulers to be a Church-member in all congregations on earth It declares I say as before but does not as a formal cause make a Church-member and it declares he hath right as a citizen of the visible Church that Rulers without sin may admit him to Ordinances but profession makes him not a member visible of onely this one congregation yea that one be a fixed member of this congregation is 1. An Affirmative command not binding ad semper Nor 2. does it tie but as being a member of the Catholick Church which is a confession of Christ before men And 3. it is of providential conveniency for the more careful feeding but not of divine institution or marriage tye CHAP. XXIII Whether Mr. Hooker doth concludently refute this which Mr. R. holdeth That he who is a Member of one Congregation is also a Member of all Congregations on earth 1. LEt it be remembred in what sense I make profession and Baptism to have influence in Membership 2. That I make not Peter a member of this congregation onely and of the whole integral Catholick Church or of all congregations on earth one and the same way for though the right to Christ the Head to Ordinances and Seals be one yet Peter is a fixed member of this congregation a transient member to all other congregâ—tions 2. He is a proper member and nearer of this congregation and a more common and remote member to all as the thumb is a nearer and proper part of the hand and a more common and remote part of the whole organical body and Richard a near member of Norwich and a more remote and common member of the Kingdome of England 3. I am constrained to take in some Arguments transposed by Mr. H. that were in the former Chapter Mr. H. To be a member of the Catholâ—ck Church firstly to a whole which a man neither did nor can see nor do any homage to nor receive any influence or direction from for Government is a sublimated imagination Ans. This makes the Doctrine of Oecumenick Councels holden by Calvin Melancthon Luther Whitaker and all the learned Divines in the Christian world to be a sublimated imagination and Mr. Cotton his associate to be sick of the same imagination and the decrees 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Apostles and Elders Acts 16. 4. by which the Churches were established ver 5. to have no influence of Government upon the Churches 2. It must be a sublimated imagination That the whole Churches of Jews and Gentiles who could not see the faces of all the Apostles nor do any homage to them nor receive any direction except in their Writings which yet may be from them should be governed by the Apostles and it must be an imagination That the Apostles were members of the Catholick integral Churches and never fixed and married members of the single congregation and could every one of the ten thousands of the congregational Church of Ierusalem as our Brethren will have it be be governed by the whole Church except they had seen the faces of all the thousands that governed them Mr. H. If a man that is a Member of one Congregation â—e also a Member of all Congregations on earth then he can perform the duties of a Member to all but that is impossible Ans. The duties we owe to members of the integral Catholick Church are 1. Common and personal as Church-praying Church-praising Church-fasting for the evils of sin or judgement Isa. 62. 6. Psal. 122. 6. Eph. 6. 18. 3. 14. Rom. 12. 18. 1 Cor. 12 26. they being members of the same body with us Eph. 4. 1 2 3 4 5. and their good or hard condition being known to us which say also they are one visible body with us these duties are possible and necessary if the meaning be of occasional duties of love not in word but in deed as giving of alms to brethren I judge of all congregations beside our own Iam. 〈◊〉 If a brother or a sister be naked c. of what ever congregation on earth where providence cast your lot to be 1 Ioh. 3. 17. If I say he mean such duties of members to forreign Church-members as Church-members be impossible I much differ from Mr. H. it is contrary to 2 Cor. 9. 1 2 3. Gal. 6. 10. And the like I say of duties of occasional comforting rebuking warning one another even in order to Church-members and Church-duties They are this way impossible that physically I cannot be in all places to discharge these duties But to fetch an Argument as watery I might say A man in Muscâ—via cannot be to a Scottish-man a neighbour whom he is to love as himself A man in Morpeth cannot be a fellow-member both with another mâ—n in Morpeth and with another English Subject who dwelleth four hundred miles from him whom he never saw not can see Why its impossible he can discharge the duty of neighbour-love to the one that he never saw nor possibly can see or that of a fellow-subject of England as toward the other Yea by this its impossible one can discharge the duties of personal watching over five thousand members of the congregation as they say of Ierusalem
for while as he watches over one he must neglect fourscore of hundreds and above 2. What liberty and power a man hath in one particular congregation as a member he hath the same in all because he is a member every where Then he hath power in choosing the Officers and in maintaining them and these Officers must be sought in casting him out Ans. What liberty and power a man hath jure habitu actu primo by the right as a visible professor in one congregation as a member that same moral right of Saintship taken in a right sense he carries about to all congregations on earth whithersoever he comes as is clear by Letters of Recommendation which I said and its never answered onely declare but give no new right to Church priviledges which our Brethren give to members by which they have right to the seals in other congregations But it follows not what liberty and power a man as a fixed nearer and proper member hath in his own congregation that same liberty and power he hath actu secundo and that he may actually exercise in all congregations for to the actual exercise of it is required the actual knowledge of him and his right and qualification that they with him and he with them may act in a Church-way in other congregations and forreign Churches And also he cannot act with that power in all congregations as in his own not because he hath not the power in habit and actu primo but both he cannot orderly exercise it and without scandal of usurpation until he first evidence he hath such power and also because he cannot physically be in many places at once as a Citizen of London hath power and liberty to do the duties of a Subject of England such as to save the life of a Subject and to apprehend a publick Robber that waftes the countrey in all cities and places in England but its impossible that he can be physically present in all places of England where his help may be useful for the performing of these duties 2. Nor will it follow that he should give hire to any but to his own personal feeders from whom he receiveth the benefit of feeding Gal. 6. 6. 1 Cor. 9. 1 Tim. 5. 17 18. 3. It is also an untoward consequence Therefore be cannot be cast out of one congregation unless the Officers of all others did cast him out for that is physically impossible God will have the Catholick integral Church to purge it self in its parts and it s no more necessary nor convenient that the whole integral Church should or possibly can pass an actual sentence for the casting out of every person than all England can convene in Parliament for the passing sentence upon every English Subject guilty of Felony Murther Sodomy Blasphemy Drunkenness Swearing c. and all guilty of these faults are both Members of either Cities Counties or Shires and also Subjects of the Kingdome of England and the Argument is as strong in the one as in the other even suppose Great-Britain were but one Kingdome Nor 4. Will it follow that a guilty person can require the convening of the whole integral Catholick Church to judge his cause for he can have no moral right but such as all in case of scandal have why he should more decline the Churches judging than their feeding by the Word Now since such a convening of all Officers to judge every scandal is physically unpossible it is not to be thought that Christ hath given a moral liberty to all delinquents without exception to appeal to all the Officers on earth for the infinite wisedome of God gives not moral power to physical impossibilities that are physically destructive to edification Mr. H. If he that is the member of one Congregation be a member of all I cannot see but of necessity it must follow that one particular Congregation must be another Ephesus must be Smyrna and Smyrna must be Thyatira for where there be the same individual members there be the same whole integral body and the ground is undeniable from received Rules Integrum est totum cui partes sunt essentiales Therefore the same members carry the same essence to the whole I assume there be the same individual members of all the particular Congregations For if one particular professor be a member of every particular Congregation then all particular professors must be so and so all of them members of one particular Congregation and so of every one Hence there being the same members of every particular Congregation every particular Congregation is the same and thence it will follow that Ephesus is Smyrna and Smyrna to be Thyatira Hence when Smyrna is destroyed yet Smyrna remains Ans. It s a pity to black paper with such Wind-mills Where there be the same individual members there must be the same individual whole or totum integrale All the individual members of a mans body either similar parts flesh and blood and bones or the Organs eyes ears feet hand and all the rest taken together as united are the whole organical body of man and so all the Congregations on earth taken together are and make up the whole integral Catholick visible Church existing in all the Kingdomes and States of the earth But what follows therefore the hand is the foot where there be the same proper and nearer fixed members the thumb and the little finger of the hand and also the same common and remoter members the same thumb little finger of the whole organical body there is the same individual integral whole so as the one member is affirmed of another the thumb is the little finger and the little finger is the thumb for all the organs are members proper the eyes ears nose of the head the fingers of the hand the toes of the feet and all the rest arms legs belly shoulders and all these same members are common and remote members of the whole body Just as Peter is a fixed and near member of this Congregation and also a common and remoter member of the whole integral Catholick Church And as all the Citizens of London are fixed and near members of London and proper parts thereof and yet common and remote members and Subjects of England Hence by Mr. H. his own Argument Where there be the same individual members thereof necessity must be the same whole integral So I assume saith he But there be the same individual members of all the particular Congregations I assume also Iohn Richard Thomas Citizens of London of York are all in their very individual natures individual Subjects of England Ergo London must be York and York must be London and Iohn Citizen of London must be Richard Citizen of Yoâ—k And contrary Again I assume the same individual thumb and individual little finger and toes and individual eyes and ears are all members of the hand or congregation of fingers of the feet and society of toes
is a device of men So no such Covenant is in Scripture in framing of Churches Mr. H. The solemnity of fasting and praying is onely required at the first founding of a Church Acts 2. where there is onely an addition of members the stroke on the Spirit by the Ministery of the Apostles was so extraordinary that they needed no miraculous discerning Ans. 1. Mr. H. may make the Reader believe that I am against fasting and praying at either planting of or addition to Churches and therefore divides my Argument for I argue from the want not of fasting and praying onely but 2. No Church-covenant was here nor 3. Any frequent meeting of the members to be acquainted with the spiritual state one of another nor was it possible these things could be in seven hours space All which they require in founding Churches and so there was no day of fasting kept by the Church baptized 2. There is an addition that the Christian Church was also solemnly founded Mr. H. Theâ—r stedfast continuing was after they were added Ergo saith Mr. R. that could not make them members Ans. Nor lies the Argument there from the effect to the cause they continued Ergo they took themselves engaged to continue Ans. There is no doubt they took themselves engaged by Baptism 2. Did Ananias and Sapphira either continue stedfastly or take themselves engaged by Church-covenant for we now speak of visible actings that agree to Church members as such therefore they took themselves to be engaged members and members to that onely Church by a solemn Marriage-covenant is a dream unwritten Mr. H. Where there is a solemn baptizing into a Church the person is made a Disciple of Christ Matth. 28. 19. So to be a Disciple is to be ingraffed into the body of Christ and to be made a fellow-heir of the same body Eph. 3. 6. that is of the visible Church Joh. 12. 40. though many believed in him yet they would not confess him or be his disciples Ans. 1. If confessing and being a disciple be one and if solemn baptizing make a disciple as from Matth. 28. and Ioh. 12. Mr. H. saith Then 1. Must Infants be actual disciples 2. Actual confessors 3. In danger to be excommunicate for the Jews made such an act Ioh. 9. 2. Ingraffing in the body is to be made a fellow-heir and of the same body of Iews and Gentiles who were partakers of the promise of Christ by the Gospel and fellow-citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God built upon the foundation Eph. 3. 8. 2. 19. and comprehendeth both the truly believing visible body and invisible And when and who made Magus and Iudas partakers of the promise of Christ by the Gospel and fellow-heirs of the same body 3. Did ever man dream that this body is a single Congregation and not that its the great Catholick Body of Iews and Gentiles Eph 3. 5 6. 2 15 16 19 Mr. H. The people are said to magnifie the Apostles that is to approve their doctrine and the goodness thereof yet there was more required to this Church-work and to bâ—come a disciple and therefore it s added And the believers were added i. e. they confessed thâ—ir sins and became disciples and followers of that Doctrine and so covenanted for their children Else we cannot reason against the Anabaptists If the converted father was baptized therefore the children The place thus expounded is not taken out of our hand Ans. The scope of the place is not to shew the qualification of visible members but that though Satan had made a â—oul breach in the Church by the lying hypocrisie of Ananias and Sapphira yet the Lord was mighty in the Apostles by the miraculous and righteous smiting of the hypocrites and other mighty wonders to the admiration of all and the terrour of many Acts 5. 1 2. 11 12 13. and that breach by their death was made up ver 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Believers were the more added not to the visible Church onely but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the Lord which was a real addition of real believers as the same phrase is cap. 2. ver 47. not unlike 2. The magnifying of Apostles is spoken of beâ—ievers who not onely approved their doctrine but confessed the power of God to be in the Apostles miracles and some fear of God as Calvin saith Oecumenius They praised that Gospel powâ—r Chrysostom They do not mock nor threaten yet they seem as our Interpreters to be medii homines not wicked despiserâ— 3. He expounds they were added i. e. they confessed their sins and became disciples and followers of that doctrine But sure confessing of sins and professing of the doctrine if he mean such a following â—s was in Magus it s a hungry Exposition of being added to the Lord since it is in many hypocrites that are never added to the Lord. 2. If he mean that they were practical followers of the Apostles doctrine as he must if he say any thing more than what he said before sure that must be an habitual constant walking with God all their life and cannot be before they were added Acts 2. for they were believers and added the same day cap. 2 and cap. 5. Nor sayes he any thing for adding of visible members cap. 5. but all their life they were added to the Lord. And is that the meaning of Luke either cap. 2. or cap. 5 Sure Luke sets down the history of men added to the Lord at the sight of these miracles 4. It s a wonder men are so bold with the Scripture They were added i. e. They became disciples and so engaged themselves and covenanted also for their children But did their being added to the Church and to the Lord which certainly in the sincere part was real and sound believing include the swearing of this Church-covenant to be watching members married to the onely single Congregation of Ierusalem and to no other visible Church on earth If to dictate be to prove then we have more than enough of this 5. If Mr. H. judge that Calvin Pet. Martyr Beza Ursin Pareus and our Worthies cannot reason for Infant baptism against Anabaptists except thus The fathers are married members by Church-covenant to one single Congregation Ergo Infants must be baptized Or thus The really converted father must be baptized Ergo the children We have a weak part of it for this strengthens Anabaptists not a little for the common Arguments both of our Brethren and the Anabaptists are They must be real converts that are Church-members as I have proved And sure our Brethren judge it absurd that the Seal of Baptism should be put into a blank or to a falshood Now since Baptism is the seal of our Regeneration either must our Brethren put a blank and a falshood which the Church who knows not the heart without sin put upon Iudas or then with monstrous charity they must
and conditional not absolute and therefore is to be pronounced by the mouth of the Church the Pastor thus Be it unto thee according to thy Faith and Repentance and except the man really repent his sin is not loosed in heaven So then the Churches loosing from the scandal is conditional upon a seen condition of outward repentance morally sincere to the Churches apprehension but they simply and absolutely make him a Citizen of the Church and admit him to Ordinances according to the command of Christ both in private and publick Church offences If thy brother who offended repent forgive him but his loosing from the sin or guilt in heaven is ever conditional and never absolutely to be pronounced by the Pastor the mouth of the Church who cannot certainly know the condition Hence 1. the scandal is loosed in earth and heaven the Church impartially following the rule of Christ sometime when the sin remains and is bound in heaven 2. The Church may say the man is absolutely freed from the scandal so as the Church sins not in receiving him in if they follow the rule but he sins and the scandal is bound in coming in if he repent not and also as to the guilt he is freed from the sin only conditionally for the condition of removal of the scandal is seen and visible but the condition of the loosing from sin is invisible 3. Sometime the man is both loosed from the scandal and from the sin and every way loosed in heaven and earth when he both really and visibly repents 4. The Church should go as near in readmitting a fallen sinner and loosing him on earth as they can discern the Lords loosing in heaven the Corinthians seem to exceed in this 2 Cor. 2. 7. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him 5. There is more of real Saintship required to receive in again one who hath been once a member and hath fallen and was cast out then to admit a member newly come from Paganisme 1. The larger the means of salvation have been the greater guiltiness as the scandal of a Christian is greater then the sin and scandal of a Sodomite Mat. 10. 15. Mat. 11. 22. Mat. 12 41 42. And therefore the repentance of the one must be more signal and larger then the repentance of the other 2. There is not such a measure of marriage-love required of a Virgin before she be married as after she hath been married and born children to the husband nor can any say there is so much knowledge required in a new Intrant that knows not the first elements of Philosophy as in one who hath studied seven years Hence 6. it is utterly false that as visible Saintship and real Repentance as far as can be is required of one excommunicate before he can be received in again so real visible Saintship as far as can be seen must be required in members before they be first admitted But I desire our Brethren if they judge the first receiving into the Church a loosing from sin and scandal as re-admission is they will teach it me Mr. H. If Baptism be the Seal saith Mr. R. of our entry in the Church then is not this covenant the formal cause of Church-membership Ans. If Baptism seal our membership then it is after membership and so not the formal cause of it Ans. There is in my argument no word that baptism is the formal cause of our membership Baptism is a seal of our solemn installing in the Church it 's a seal quoadnos as state and feising in houses or lands is Mr. H. Though children do not covenant personally yet they are included virtually in their parents Deut. 29. Ans. If Mr. H. mean Children not born as the place Deut. 29. doth evince what is that to the purpose we have no question with any whether unborn children have right to membership or to baptism non entis nulla sunt accidentia if he mean born infants are but virtual or potential covenanters as the seed is a tree in potentia and no tree actu so must Infants be no actual covenanters but in potentia only Anabaptists shall thank Mr. H. for this for then they are not actually holy Rom. 11. 16. nor actually to be baptized nor is God actually the God of Infants but some act is required of them to lay hold on the covenant 2. The Kingdom of Heaven then is not due to them nay not a halfe salvation but in potentia But our Saviour pronounced them actually blessed and said of such is the kingdom of God Mat. 18. 14 Mat. 19. 14. Mark 10. 14 15. Yea as Christ cannot bless unborn Infants not can he say of such is the kingdom of God if they be covenanters onely in potentia and be such only Mr. H. This covenant is either the covenant of grace or different from it Ans. The new covenant is either considered according to the benefit of saving grace given in it and so this is not the covenant Or 2. according to the means of grace offered and so the Church-covenant is contained within the covenant of grace and so the consequence is null A man may be in the covenant of grace who is not a Church-member and a man may be a Church-member who is not within the covenant of grace as Magus Ans. It is a doubt to me if Mr. H. understand his own distinction of Gods decreeing and commanding will for with Arminians he saith these are contrary wills 2. My argument is this The Church covenant is tither one and the same or a branch of the covenant of grace as it offers grace externally to all to Peter and Magus or then it is a different covenant That it is different Mr. H. denies for then it should not be warranted in the Gospel if it be a part of the Gospel-covenant how can they debar men of approved godliness and visibly within the covenant of grace from ordinances for such are implicitly in this covenant 3. Some are saith M. H. in the covenant of Grace that are not Church-members and contrary true but not if they be externally and professedly as Israel was for so to be Gods visible people in covenant is to be Gods visible Church Acts 2. 39. Gen. 17. 7. Rev. 11. 15. Isa. 19. 25. now we dispute whether the Church-covenant be not a branch of the covenant of the Gospel externally proposed Mr. H. yeelds it is only he saith the Church-covenant is not the covenant of grace according to the benefits of saving grace given in it true nor is the covenant of grace externally preached according to which Magus and Iudas and all such Church-members are in the covenant of grace the covenant of grace according to the benefit of saving grace given it to wiâ— a new heart and remission c. Then this cannot hinder but when one vowes to duties in baptism he also vowes he shall acquit himself in all duties of warning
Now that is the true meaning of Mr. H. for this of Mr. R. must bide yet strong these that have no Church-power can put forth no Church-act Such as one Church may put forth toward another single Sister-Church as Mr. R. often granteth as one single man cannot excommunicate another yet one single man being a Pastor in a Church Judicature joined with the Church binding and loosing such as is Mat. 18. may give consent not private by way of counsel but publick by way of authoritative influence as a partial and collateral cause that Paul Gal. 2. be authoritatively adopted into the number of the Apostles that they be excommunicate who say they are Apostles but are not and do lye Rev. 2. and a married wife hath no marriage-power over any man but over her own husband nor is it to be heard which Mr. H. saith I but she may put forth an act of love and counsell to all men But I ask may she put forth a certain act of matrimonial love or perform a certain matrimonial duty to all men on earth this would be too near unchast acting So let Mr. H. answer whether these three Iames Cephas and Iohn gave Apostolick publick consent that Paul should be received an Apostle or only a private counsel If the former be said why contend we if the latter what more had Paul from the given right hand of these Apostles then he had before he was no more to them an Apostle then before yea more to three private Believers in Galatia contrary to the scope of Gal. 2. These Churches sent to the Parliament that way not representing the National Church and Kingdom covenanted with the Lord can give no Church-determination more then so many single Pastors yet it is an official judgement not a private judgement Mr. H. It is not warrantable that one not in office saith Mr. R. but a private Christian should pray exhort preside in the framing of a Church and in ordaining of Pastors Ans. The practice of the Church of Scotland will say to this we allow not publick prophesying of unofficed men Ans. 1. Here is ordinary prophecying such as that of the Apostle Peter at the calling of Matthias Act. 1. and publick Church-prophesying and praying such as is by the Prophets or presbytery of the Church of Antioch Act. 13. when Paul Barnabas were called to be Apostles to the Gentiles and since officers are but adjuncts of the Church to Mr. H. and separable accidents by no institution of Christ have pastors hand in ordaining pastors but the setled way till Christs second coming is that the male-Church kindly per se make and unmake all the officers which cannot be done but by Church prophesying of unofficed men 2. Expectants being pastors in fieri sons of the prophets by command of the prophets vi materiae for trial must prophesie that you cannot warrantably say from Scripture of your prophets LIB II. CHAP. I. Whether or not a company of Believers destitute as yet of Officers and combined together by this new Covenant be truely called and be in truth and indeed a Church MR Hooker moves the question whether such a company be a Church indeed by which he insinuates that it is a certain kind of a visible Church but not the only visible Church instituted by Christ in the New Testament Therefore Mr. H. stands obliged either to form the question in other terms or to shew which is the only instituted visible Church in the New Testament for the Discipline-book of N. E. saith that Church which Christ in his Gospel hath instituted to which he hath committed the Keyes the Officers Censures is coetus fidelium a combination of the godly called a particular visible Church And Mr. H. comes to our hand and so with a trumpet giving an uncertain sound he tells he speaks of the Congregational Church as it goes before Officers which is a Man in the Moon and proved by no Scripture at all Mr. H. The trumpet here gives an incertain sound M. R. expressions are so full of variety Ans. It is a groundless charge except you bring expressions of Mr. R. ambiguities which is not legible to the Reader I blow the trumpet alwayes against such a visible Church as Mr. H. forgeth by arguments from the word which are not answered Mr. H. A Church ministerial is taken two wayes 1. Generally as implying any delegate power in the exercise of any Church-acts under Christ. So a company of visible Saints hath power of admission of members and election of officers and in case they prove heretical to reject the officer and make him no officer All these are granted by Mr. R. Ministerial power is taken strictly as it includes an office power so it is not ministerial Ans. Mr. H. dictates but neither teaches nor brings one word of Scripture to prove a distinction that hath neither head nor feet 2. The members of the distinction are coincident for to ordain officers and excommunicate them is governing strictly and most properly as is in the second member And yet in the first member to excommunicate makes a ministerial Church largely so called The distinction is a begging of the question and destroyes it self for it is to ask whether visible Saints wanting such as are the only Governours and Rulers who are called in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 12. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 5. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 13. 17. Rulers be a ruling and a governing Church for a Society that doth ordain Elders and which censures them if heretical with excommunication must be a Ruling and so a Ministerial Church if there be any Ruling and Ecclesiastick Church on Earth If any say that a Society that appoints Stewards and Officers over the house and excommunicateth them is not a politick governing Society they may deny that the man which maketh use of reason is a reasonable creature And to frame a distinction and say a man is a reasonable creature in that sense is poor Logick We can give instances where the Presbytery ordains and layes on hands 1 Cor. 4. 14. and where Titus and other Elders are to ordain Elders in every City Tit. 1. 5. and Timothy and in him others are charged to lay on hands and ordain no man suddenly while he be proved to be a fit Officer 1 Tim. 5. 22. 1 Tim. 3. 10. and where Timothy and others with him are commanded 2 Tim. 2. 2. to commit the ministry to faithful men who are able to teach others Would Mr. H. shew so much for the power of Rule in a company of Believers void of Officers or give us a shadow of reason in the word from precepts practices promises for this new Church that ordains and excommunicates without Officers they should have something to say to this who upon good groun◠say they coyn a new Church of their own unknown to word Mr. H. indeed elswhere saith
an organical body the adjuncts thereof for the members and organs of an organical body are the integral parts and so in a physical consideration the essential parts of the whole integral are not adjuncts by any Logick I know and if you take away the integral parts wholly you destroy the integral whole but if you remove the adjuncts or accidents you destroy not the subject 2. What Logick is this to make the Fathers Apostles and Pastors who beget and the Ministers by whom we believe and visibly believe Rom. 10. 14 15. Eph. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 3. 5. the separable adjuncts of begotten children This is strange Logick Whiteness begot Snow And this is as strange that this Church of believers is the cause and the officers the effect that is the adjunct is the cause and the children the Church of believers or the subject is the effect and the effect begets the cause and is before the cause and the fruit hath being before the tree and the children before the father for if we speak of a constant Rule as now we must do when Apostles are removed if the Church of believers be a visible Church having the Keyes and using them even to admit officers and to excommunicate them they 1. Dispense censures and govern who have no call to carry on censures and government by preaching the Word or exhorting and praying for there are no officers as yet c. If these be visible believers who are their fathers who begat them for there are no officers yet to beget them 3. Who begot them by the preaching of the Word and if they were heathens and are now converted who either did convert them or baptize them for there are no officers as yet Did every one baptize another or did unbaptized members baptize their own Ministers who are yet unbaptized and this argument must be strongly retorted The officers cannot be the effect of this Church for they are the onely causes of the very materials of this Church for officers must convert gather a flock to God and baptize them if it be true that faith comes in the Lords ordinary and instituted way by hearing of sent Pastors Rom. 10. 14. Mr. H. The Church saith Mr. R. is the candlestick not simply without candles and lamps the Church Ministerial is the candlesticks and the Ministers the shining torches and candles It s cross to all mens apprehensions saith Mr. H. that the candlestick should be no longer a candlestick than the candle is in it They are bought and sold for candlesticks Is not a subject a subject though the adjunct be not there What kinde of Logick is this Ans. It s indeed unknown Logick that officers the fathers should be adjuncts and the Church of believers begotten by them as is said the children should be the subject 2. Mr. H. will have a figurative speech against all Logick and Grammar to be a proper speech and the candlestick Rev. 1. 20. to be like the candlesticks of brass or other metal or wood which are bought or sold. So when it s said Christ walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks the sense must be Christ walkesh in the midst of Churohes destitute of Angels and Officers Whereas he hath promised his presence to the officers Matth. 28. 20. especially Lâ—â— I am with you and by this Christ must promise his presence to blinde candlesticks and to Churches wanting officers and Angels Then the meaning of this Rev. 2. 5. I will remove the candlestick must be O Ephesus I will remove believers and that homogeneal body of Saints as destitute of Angels Never man dreamed of any such sense as this since the world was But the true sense is I will remove a shining Ministery and the Ordinances and the eight of the pâ—…ed Gospel and the Word of the Kingdom as Zech. 9. 8. Three shepherds also I cut off in one moneth Then said I I will not feed you Amos 8. 12. They shall seek the word of the Lord and shall not finde it Mat. 21. 43. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you Acts 13. 46 47. Let Mr. H. shew how the Church without the Minister is called the golden candlestick And where the Church of believers without the stars and torches is called The light of the world Godly and found Interpreters Pareus Pignetus Marlorat Piscater Diâ—â—ati English Divines The Church are candlesticks because they bear saith Pareus the torch of heavenly Doctrine So Pignetus Marlorat Piscator Mr. H. A Corporation of Aldermen before they choose a Major is a free Corporation Ergo the Church of believers is a visible Church before it have officers A man cannot be a husband before he have a wife yet he may be a man wooing woman before he can make her his wise Ans. 1. The comparison is most unlike For 1. A Corporation of Aldermen is a Corporation of free Citizens and Magistrates such as Aldermen are though they yet want a Magistrate supreme or a Major The Church void of all officers 〈◊〉 not a body capable of governing in a formal way 2. Say they want Aldermen they had by nature an intrinsacal power to choose to themselves private men to be their Rulers whereas before they were no Rulers But the making and laying on of hands upon men to make them Elders agrees not to believers because visible believers by the Law of Nature but by a positive Law of God is given to a certain number of Presbyters or Elders 1 Tim 4. 14. as is above proved 3. Say that fourty Pagans not baptized were made by the travels of some private Christian man or woman visible Saints fourty unbaptized could not make unbaptized Pagâ—… their Rulers and Pastors as they could make some of their members their Civil Magistrates 4. That Corporation doeâ— he get and create their Rulers and their Rulers who are posteriour to them did not beget them and make them free Citizenâ— But officers â—â—cording to the fixed Rule of the Gospel now when Apostles cease to be are the onely fathers who baget visible professor Mr. H. If the Church â—â—net a Church without officers then as often as the officers die the Church diâ—… also 2. When the Church for gross heresias rejecteth the officers the Church must destroy her self while she laboureth her own preservation Doth a Corporation when they put out a wicked Magistrate out of his place therefore destroy their own Liberties and nullifie their Corporation Such Arguments may seem â—nâ—ugh to cast a cause and yet Mr. R. by them can turn all aside Ans. It s unfit that a man should so reflect upon his Brethren when there is so little strength 1. The Pastors being the husband and the Church the wife sure if the wife destroy the husband to save her self she destroys her own wife ship while she labours the preservation of her self as a woman and if the Church destroy all the heretical officers is there any
absundity to say She destroyeth her own Ministerial feeding her own sacramental communion by which she is one body with all the Saints on earth as the Brethren grant and its sure from 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. 12. 13. as touching any spiritual well-being and feeding by these wretched feeders but they have no authority to do it I see no inconvenience why a Corporation may not out and lay aside all their Aldermen and Major if they turn Lions and Leopards and so destroy the present individual Government while they labour their own safety and the safety of their priviledges But the case is not alike except Mr. H. prove That the Church of believers hath the same positive power of Government intrinsecal without their officers and onely fathers who begat them to Christ to use the Keyes and formally to excommunicate them as a free City hath over their Magistrates 2. If the officers die sure the organical Church dies and the organical and the ministerial and politick essence of that visible Church as it is totum integrale dies 2. I retort the Argument When the Church of the Jews Acts 13. 18. turns heretical and blasphemes and refuses to be the married wife I speak in our Brethrens language if the Church of officers reject them and turn to others it shall not follow 1. That the officers destroy their own husbandly power while they labour their own preservation which is the great absurdity that Mr. H. puts upon Mr. R. as enough to cast the cause 2. Shall it follow That the officers without the people or governing without yea contrary to their consent is a true visible Church in no sort Mr. H. When the tents are removed they are not the shepherds tents to remove the candlestick is to remove the Ministery and remove all the Officers the Church is not a body visible eating one bread 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. So Mr. R. But Mr. H. answers Yet they are called tents fit to receive shepherds and are the same they were before the shepherds were chosen and remain the same To remove the candlestick is to remove the Ministery because Ministery and Ministers have their dependence on the Church destroy the man the whole you destroy the parts but it holds not contrariwise its true in a Ministerial Church i. e. an organicum totum when you take away any part you lame the integrity of it but you dedestroy not the essence of it as it is totum essentiale Ans. It is enough to me if ye remove all Officers and Shepherds it is no ruling Church though the fitness of choice which is no act of government do still remain yet the fitness to ordain and to excommunicate remains not for they never had it Luke distinguishes the one from the other Acts 6. 3 5. the multitude 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 chused not the Apostles but the twelve Apostles not the multitude ordained them by praying and laying on of hands v 6. as the Elders do and they only in the New Testament 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2. It is good that Mr. H. grants that to remove the Candlestick is to remove the ministâ—…y I hope he means the shining burning and guiding Ministers and Watchmen 1 Tim. 3. 1 2. Mat. 5. 14. Ioh. 5. 35. But in the other page 91 32. It is cross to all mens apprehensions saith he that the Candlestick should include Candles and Lamps 3. Nor is it true in Mr. H. his way that to remove the candlestick is to remove the Ministry for there remaineth a preaching and a praying Church which is at the ordaining of Officers and sending them Act. 1â—15 6. 24. Act. 13. 1 2 3. Act. 6. 6. which doth only make and unmake officers saith Mr. H. 4. Destroy the whole saith he and you destroy the parts but it holds not contrariwise why not contrariwise if you destroy all the parts otherwise the Logick is naught take away eyes and ears and hands and feet and all the integral parts or all the essential parts and you destroy the whole in any sense too much of this Logick Mr. H. gives us 5. Take away saith he in an Organick or Ministerial body a member you lame the integrity Now the ministry and officers are removed by the people because they are heretical as Mr. H. teacheth page 90. I pray you remains there a ministerial or organick body no saith M. H. there remains a homogeneous body 4. Take away any part you lame the integrity take then away the ministry you lame the body O Logick the ministry is a separable adjunct to Mr. H. page 92. Here it is an integral part is an integral part an adjunct is the eye an adjunct of the organical body is the integrity hurt because a separable adjunct is removed 5. Nor is this true take away any part in an organical body and you lame the integrity it is only true of an organical part not of any part take away ten members believers only the Church remaineth an entire and unlamed integral body let ten free members of a City be removed by death yet the City remains an unmaimed entire body of Citizens ruled by Major and Aldermen 6. Remove the ministry the essence and organical body remaineth not Mr. H. That which is added is more beside the cause It is granted where Officers are not there is no communion of the Sacraments is there therefore no Church-communion Ans. If this communion be removed there is no communion of the Church which being many members is one body 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. 12. 12 13. And what reason but a Church and the only instituted visible Church in the new Testament as the book of Discipline of N. E. makes it should be a complete Church in being and operation and partake of all Church-communion though it want the officers which are to Mr. H. but poor harmless separable adjuncts page 92. and this is somewhat for the cause M. H. We have done now with the first Quere and made it clear That this Church is before all Officers and may be without them Ans. So Mr. H. hath done and made it as clear as midnight darkness with whole two Arguments the one whereof is a poor Grammatication and scarce that and the other a begging of the question that there is a ruling Church before and without officers which may make and unmake officers CHAP. II. Of the Nature and Being of a Presbyterial Church Mr. H. The qualification of the Church as totum essentiale in the order and prâ—cedency of it in regard of her true Officers we have dispatched Now we speak of it in comparison with a Presbyterian Church Ans. Let not then the Reader exprest any visible Church organical to be spoken of Organs are but separable adjuncts the only Church spoken of and acknowledged by Mr. H. and our brethren is an homogeneal Church of onely believers which Mr. H. now calls the Church before
blood and yet if the matter was too hard the same man was a Judge and a Member of the Sanhedrim Deut. 17. Mr. H. his last difference The Iudicature of Classis and Congregations do not differ formally saith Mr. R. but onely in more or lesse extension of power Ans. Then there are no specifical acts that the one puts forth but the other can put forth as occasion shall require gradus non variant speciem then they can ordain officers and excommunicate in the Congregation He said before if there be the same office there is the same definition and the same causes to wit of election and choice of the Classical and of the Congregational Elders Ans. The difference is only of more or less as of a River and the whole Element though divers learned men judge the Congregation to be no governing Church at all but only their Elders the delegates of the Presbyterial Church which consisting of divers Congregations is the first governing Church 2. There are no sâ—â—cifick acts which the Elders collectively taken may not exercise in both the one and the other but then shall it not follow thâ—â— a single congâ—â—gational Eldership may ordain and exâ—â—mmunicate in one 〈◊〉 Congregation there alone divided from the body for congrâ—…nal Elders cannot teach oâ—derly and he is the God of ordâ—r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his Church in all the Congregations without a calâ— Nor 2. Exercise the power of a Synod in them all 3. I 〈◊〉 this argument Archippâ—â— hath the same office to the whole Congregation and to the single mâ—mbers who chused him and whom he feeds or then he hath so many officer as there be chusing and fed members â—â—ught by the word and ruled which is absurd Eâ—go as the single voâ—â— of one member made him a Pastor to one and of a second made him a Pastor to a second and so forth So the â—otes of the whole made him a Pastor to the whole for that is the same officâ— thâ—â— hath the same causes and the same choice and election saith M◠〈◊〉 Ergo where the same causes are not the same office cannot be but one single electing vote and the electing votâ—â— of the whole Church by Mr. H. his way cannot be the same causes for one vote makes him not a Pastor 2. If Archippuâ— hath the same office to the whole congregation and to every single member then as he 〈◊〉 pastoral acts of teaching and ruling to the whole so to the parts and single members but this latter is denied by Mr. H page 104 who saith That a Pastor cannot put forth Pastoral acts but in the Church assembly A strange imagination Mr. H. By the same official power saith Mr. R. that a Pastor teacheth his own fleck viva voce he teacheth others by writing Ans This is a new invention that I never heard of before 1. The official power by which he preacheth he receiveth by election and he may be rejected from it by the people in case of delinquency 2. By his official power he may require them to hear but may not require all Churches to read his writings and if they offensively refuse to read he cannot censure them as he may censure them that refuse to hear the word 3. If this power of writing of Books to edifie the Churches proceed from his office all Ministers by their office should write Books 4. That which another may do with as much authority and more authority of truth as being more able yet being out of office that cannot belong to the officer but to write books is such Ans. 1 Official power is not from election but from the saying on of the hands of the Elders 1 Tim. 3. 1 2. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2 2. Tit. 1. 5. 2. It is true that a Pastor cannot require by his office those of another Congregation to hear him preach and receive the seals from him nor censure them if they refuse but it is a bad consequence of Logick therefore he doth not exercise these pastoral acts to them by his office as the Brethren grant 2. A Minister by his office may require his hearers to give much alms pray much read and confer much both these of his own and other flocks yet he cannot censure them for not coming up to the highest pitch of these affirmative duties except he may rebuke them and so may he do all who are remiss in reading edifying writings and the Church may censure unsound books Acts 15. 24. 3. Neither Mr. R. nor any judicious man can teach that either a gift to write Books or of eminent preaching praying exhorting proceeds out of a power of office it is a sanctified gift which the Church seeth and judgeth to be in any before they call him to office and any gift is by order of nature and time before the office and so proceeds not from the office and therefore it is not required that every Pastor should have a gift of writing books but if the Lord have given it to any they exercise it as such gifted officers as the Prophets and Apostles as such Prophets so gifted did write Canonick Scriptures so are Pastors if gifted to write and preach in their way and both to write and preach by their office Nor is it good Logick that all in office should write books because some by vertue of their office writ books for a Minister gifted with four Talents is obliged to gain with these four Talents and that as a Minister by vertue of his office but it is weak Logick to infer Ergo all Ministers by vertue of their office are obliged to gain with four Talents for many are obliged by vertue of their office to gain with only two to their Lord and with only one 4. It was needless to Mr. H. to prove writing of books doth not belong to the power of office because a learned man out of office may do it with more authority for Mr. R. had no such intention For sure if such a thing agreed to the office-power as the office-power then all Officers Pastors Elders were obliged to write books and yet Mr. H. does not very happily prove it because many learned men unofficed may with more authority of truth write books then officed men It is only some officed men he must mean or it is not true And then I retort it thus many officed men may write books with more authority both of truth and of office and two are better then one then some unofficed men less learned Ergo some gifted Pastors do not as Pastors so gifted and by vertue of their office relating both to the presbyterian Church and their own Congregation edifie all the Churches about by writing books It follows not Mr. H. We are told that Elders are ruling in all Churches collectively taken and they are teachers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in some reserved acts not constant teachers he that rules teacheth but always the
he is a stranger for by this way he is an alien and deprived of their sanctuary joy and glory of that congâ—egregation both in Church-hearing believing and joy of the seals 7. By this way Christ must promise his Ministerial presence and his Spirit not always as Mat. 28. 20. Eph. 4. 11 12. Ioh. 20. 21. Acts 1. 8. and in every congregation where they open the mouth but onely in one fixed congregation With what faith can they preach elsewhere or people hear the pastors elsewhere CHAP. VIII Arguments against a Presbyterial Church taken from the Name and Nature of the Church Matth. 18. are discussed MR. H. A Church in the Gospel is never used for the Elders onely Ans. It is never used in the N. T. for men onely who govern secluding women and children as Mr. H. takes it nor for the people secluding the Elders as a governing Society but of the signification hereafter But it cannot be a binding and authoritative loosing Church Mr. H. There cannot be a definition given that will agree to a Congregational and Presbyterial Church Ans. Ergo There is no Presbyterial Church it follows not 2. As we take a Congregational Church for the Eldership ruling it is false One and the same nature of a Ruling Church agreeth to the Congregational Presbyterial Provincial Eldership and so they differ per magis minus as is said Mr. H. If the Congregations be species specialissimae of a true Church then there can be no lower species resulting or arising from them as this doth Ans. No Logick can say the Church of Boston so existing hath other species of the Church of Boston under it The hand of Socrates cannot be called species specialissima nor is the hand to speak Logically a species it is a part and an uncomplete part of the body If Mr. H. mean as it seems he doth that we make Presbyterian Provincial Churches lower species and kindes of Congregational Churches the pious man refutes Presbyterian Government which he understands not For species specialissima praedicatur de inferioribus according to Aristotle his Ramus and all Logick And O what Monsters feed we if this be true properly a Presbyterial Church is a Congregational Church or a Congregation is a Presbyterial Church for the congregation is an integral part of the Presbyterian Church the Presbyterian likewise an integral part of the Provincial but neither of them is species to other except we say Euphrates is the Element of Water the Element of water is Euphrates M. H. If every congregation hath all the integral parts of a Church then it is an intire and complete Church Ans. Therefore it is an intire politick Church in its association with other Churches it follows not But what then London is an intire city having all the integral parts of a Society Major Sheriffs Aldermen Rulers and ruled Ergo London is no part of England nor ruled by the Parliament of England VVhat Logick is this But if the meaning be that the congregation associated in the midst of ten congregations is so a city different in species and in nature from all other congregations and so married to its own Pastors as the husband and wife are so that to exercise Church-acts official acts without themselves is adultery and unlawful and so as this Church is no integral part of the body Catholick it s against Scripture and sound reason and a begging of the question Mr. H. Every integrum is made up of his members therefore in nature they are before therefore Churches before Classis therefore what each have they receive from them therefore they have no office but from them therefore both ordination and jurisdiction come from them Ans. I desider at a Syllogism Every whole Incorporation is made up of its members that are before the whole and hath power offices ordination and jurisdiction from these members It is denied by us and nakedly asserted by Mr. H. For 1. The Churches are before the Apostles Ergo the Apostles had their immediate calling and power of jurisdiction from the Churches It is against Scripture as women and children are by nature before officers ergo officers have their ordination and jurisdiction from women and children 3 Churches are before counselling and advising yea as Mr. Cotton saith well before pastorally and authoritatively determining Synods Ergo Synods have all their synodical power to counsel and pastorally teach from the Churches they came from it follows not not will our brethren yeild the consequence Mr. H. If a Congregation grow too big and therefore be forced to swarm out or in ease they transplant themselves from one place to another so that part be forced to go before others to make preparation for those that follow we then send an Officâ—r with the smaller party and the greater number remain with the rest and yet are all but one Church in our account and under one Presbytery of chosen Elders of the Congregation Ans. 1. Why do not our Brethren shew a practice of this in the Church of Ierusalem consisting of so many Act. 2. 4. 6. thousands if more then five thousands all in one congregation Was there not need that four or six congregations should swarm out of six thousands and six Officers be sent with them in which case suppose they go fourty miles to a new Colony and five congregations meet in five sundry places for Word and Sacraments here must be five Churches â—s our brethren take the word Church 1 Cor. 11. 18. Act. 11. 16 21. 22. 4. 31. Mat. 18. 17. 16. 18. Sure though they had no Officers they are a homogeneous true visible Church as Mr. H teacheth page 1. c. 5. page 5. and so here or six Churches if we contend not about names under one Presbyterial government which is the yeelding of the cause and yet at forty miles distance and yet by no will or appointment can they meet in one place O but they are all one Church in our account one congregation in Christs account Shew us Scripture for this acception of the word Church in Old or New Testament that they are one single congregation otherwise Mr. H. his account is no account If they be one Church because they have one and the same power jurisdiction officers they had before So we say and the same power and jurisdiction in nature and essence we grant but so all the congregations on earth have one and the same power and jurisdiction covenant seals saith Christ hope of glory so we agree Why dispute we if the meaning be that all these six swarmes for a thousand will be a number too great for one congregation if not sufficient are but one individual congregation though now separated by forty miles and meeting in six sundry places 1. Give us Scripture for that Church 2. Give us any Greek Author sacred or prophane that so speakes for we stand not to Mr. H. his account
teach any of them or all of them is not sinful But sure the Apostles might govern send their decrees and Epistles to many Churches the members whereof they never saw in the face Nor could all the many thousands who had power of judging with the Elders as our Brethren say meet in one place comely and comfortably to act and therefore Christ so must never have appointed such a judicature to rule all these congregations who are entitatively one so must they say what we say and more For all the congregations on earth are entitatively and in nature one and yet our Brethren will be far from saying that they are all under one government as they say that these meetings at Ierusalem were M. H. The rest of the examples of Antioch Ephesus Rome though it were granted upon their greater growth and increase and so want of Elders they might meet in divers places for the while these might still be under one presbytery their officers in a distinct manner attending upon them And therefore Gerson Bucerus in his answer sayes here Quis adeo ineptire sustinuerit c. Who can say that because they meet in divers places they were under divers Presbyteries or Elders Ans. 1. This is a short way of answering with a leaving out of the Church of Samaria a great City wherein all both men and women were baptized the Church of Corinth of Thessalonica c. 2. And yet there is no lesse cause to say all the Saints at Rome Antioch Ephesus Samaria could not meete in one place then that these of Ierusalem could not 2. If they might meet in divers places for the while and yet be under one Presbytery Here is a Presbyteriall Church of many Congregations for a while Here is a Prelaticall and Antichristian Government for a while at least ordained by Christ. And Mr. H. writes a Book with a huge noise of absurdities with which he burdens his Brethren the Presbyterians yet he will suffer their Church to stand for a while 3. Who told Mr. H that a Presbyterial Church may stand for a while during the time of the growth of the the Church of Ierusalem Antioch Ephesus but no longer for when the swarmed out Churches are once setled the Presbyterian Church must downe againe since the Scripture speakes nothing of this Who gave Mr. H. leave to set up an Antichristian Tabernacle for so is the Presbytery to him for an houre and pull it downe again 4. It is a wonder that Mr. H. should cite Gerson Bucer cuttedly as a Witnesse so much for a Presbyteriall Church not in the swarming out of Churches onely of which Bucer hath not one word but in the setled state of the Church for Bucer contradicts Mr. H. and all his as foolishly erring when they say such Churches meet in divers places for the Word and Seales Ergo they are independent in their government and cannot be under one common government Bucer saith if they lie near together it is folly to say they are under divers Presbyteries and so say we Mr. H. 2. It doth not appear out of any Text nor any evincing Argument gathered therefrom that setting aside the Church of Jerusalem they should needs meet in several places Ans. Then the Church of Ierusalem met in sundry places by Mr. H. his argument but this shall offend the dissenting Brethren that maintain against the Synod at Westminster that they meet all in one place 2. Mr. H. should have given a reason why the Church of Ierusalem met in sundry places and not the other Churches of Antioch Ephesus but because he saw our Arguments run as strong for other Churches as for Ierusalem He was pleased to dictate what he could not demonstrate and so leave the Reader in the dark 3. Before I leave this let Mr. H. or his teach what is meant by this that there were about three thousand added to the Church Act. 2. 21. whether by the Church be meant the one hundred and twenty of which ch 1. and whether there the one hundred and twenty were there to receive the three thousand as members at that time in a judicial way And if they were not there how the three thousand were not added primarily to the Catholike Christian Church that then was and secondarily to this or to that Church as we say For when there were said to be added to the Church they were not added to themselves Mr. H. 3. Let it be considered whether by Church may not be meant many Churches Saul made havock of the Church i. e. of the faithful of many Churches Ans. It is weak as water Saul persecuteth the Church i. e. members of the independent Church Ergo there is no Presbyterial Church Ergo there is not such a thing as a Synod for he persecuted Iames Peter and the Elders and Brethren members of the Synod where he might find them now the Apostles were not fixed member of congregations and let Mr. H. consider whether Luke gives not a better interpretat on then he Act. 83. Saul made havock of the Church entring into every house and haling mâ—n and women and committed them to pâ—ison So that Saul destroyed the scattered members that were nâ—t inchurched and where he found any of this way Act. 9. 2. whether members of a congregation or not even members of divers meetings under one Presbytery as he grants he persecuted them And by this the Church at Ierusalem Act. 11. 22. must be Churches congregational at Ierusalem And Act. 2. The Lord added to the Church such as should be saved that is the Lord added to divers Independent Congregations such as should be saved good but this Church and these common Elders meet for acts of Government Act. 2. 18. and the day following Paul went in with us to Jâ—… and all the Elders verse 25. were present Sâ—re the place shewes they meet for acts of Government Yea Act. 11. 30. 21. 18. They sent alms to the Elders of Iudea to be distributed to the distressed in Iudea As also the Elders of Iudea were members of the Synod Act. 1â— And how could there be administrating of the seals without any jurisdiction at all to debar the unworthy CHAP. IX The Arguments of Mr. R. for a Ministerial Church from Matth. 18. are vindicated from the Exceptions of Mr. Hooker MR. H. If Christ allude to the Synedry then must Mat. 18. be expounded of a Presbyterial Church Mr. H. both Proposition and Assumption is denied Ans. Mr. H. leaps from one Book to another I no where frame an Argument from a meer allusion but so if Christ so allude to an authoritative company that hath power of binding and loosing as the Jewish Sanhedrim in this Mat. 18. then he judgeth the Church Mat. 18. to be a Juridical Church 2. It s a poor Argument he alludes not to the Jewish Synagogue because that Synagogue had no power of Excommunication as this Church Mat. 18. hath
do one way and the Elders another way So 2 Cor. 2. 7. Ye ought rather to forgive him and comfort him Sure women children of age and servants to whom he writes were to forgive in their way for to them he determined to come 2 Cor. 1. 15. They were a part of his rejoycing v. 14. they were anointed established sealed by the Spirit v. 21 22. as well as the men and Elders And say the word of confirming their love were an authoritative word as it is Yet it is so as applied to the Elders not as applied to women As the same word of Worshipping relating to Iehovah is a religious adoring relating to David is civil reverence 1 Chr. â—9 21. The people bowed their heads worshipped the Lord and the King 1 Sam. 12. 18 All the people greatly feared the Lord and Samuel Though they were two really distinct actions And this cannot be denied by Mr. H. who gives to the Elders an official power of jurisdiction to the Brethren a judicial power of judgment Ergo they excommunicate not one and the same way 6. Yes and Paul writes to Timothy not as to a Christian simply but as to a Pastor representing the company of Elders as Christ speaks to Peter Mat. 16. as to a Pastor to take heed to Doctrine and reading 1 Tim. 4. 14 16. What Widows 1 Tim 5. 9. What Watchmen 1 Tim. 3. 1 2. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 17 22. What Deacons 1 Tim. 3. 10 11. there should be in the Church How he should rebuke preach Now this way the people should be warned how to preach how to rebuke not to lay on hands suddenly to save themselves and others by preaching if they have a joint power of ruling with officers It is true he writes to Timothy as to a Christian to flee the lusts of you hâ— but in order to the Ministry that he may be an example to the flock 2 Tim. 2. otherwise women children come to age servants are to flee lusts and to follow righteousness faith love peace c. yet they are to exercise no jurisdiction 7. Tell the Church cannot bear this as Mr. H. would say tell first the Church of Officers and people when the officers are too ordinarily grievous wolves seducers blind guides Idol-shepherds Act. 20. 29. Mat. 7. 15. 2 Pet. 2. 1 2. 1 Iohn 4. 1. Rev. 2. 14 20. T it 3. 10. Ier. 23. 9 15. Ier. 14. 14 15. Isa. 56. 10 11. Mich. 3. 5 6. Zach 11. 8 15 16. Then must the keys and power of binding and loosing be firstly in the people not in the officers who are separable adjuncts as our brethren say the garments of the Church not parts of the Church as garments are not parts of a man Lastly Mr. H. cannot build his new house but by raising the foundation stones of all our worthy Protestant Divines and Fathers who prove that the Pope should hear the general Council from Matth. 18. So Chrysost. hom 85. in Ioan. Orig. hom 7. in Ezek. August Ssrm. 49. de ver domini Cyprian Iewel Apolo c. 8. div 2. page 55. Tho. Mort. Appel Protest l. 4. c. 2. sect 8. page 451. 452. Aene. Sylv. in Gest. Conc. Basil. fol. 5. 51. Rom. Pont. non audist Eccles. Christum non audiet And Riv. Catho Ortho. To 1. Tract 1. q. 8. Papists that are sounder as Gerson Almain Occum Cusanus Contarenâ—â—s Caâ—etanus Ferus Toletus Menochius Maldonatus c. say the Pope is a Brother and ought to hear the Church Mr. H. The Angel of the Church of Ephesus stands for the whole Church saith Mr. R. Ans. See how strangely shall that sound To the Angel of the Church of Ephesus i. e. To the Church of the Church of Ephesus Ans. This is a poor consequence it is known there are often two Tropes in one word The word Angel being put for many Angels as Didoclavius and other learned Authors from Psal. 34 7. prove And then these many overseers are put for the Church and rebuked in the people and the people in them When an Embassador speaks to the Parliament he speaks to England and when he speaks to the Speaker he speaks to the Parliament Will it follow the Embassador speaks to England of England A headless conceit and such quirks make a cause to be suspected so when one offended tells the Church he but tells the brethren of the Church and this is the Church of the Church And if women sons servants be excluded as Mr. H. excludes them then he tells the Church of the Church Mr. Parker though not far from our Brethrens way hath said the very same for which Mr. H. refuteth Mr. R. And if Mr. Parker shews my mind in that when Mr. H. refutes therein M. Parker I yield but he contradicts Mr. Parker Mr. H. It is said Acts 18. 22. Paul saluted the Church at Jerusalem it cannot be thought in reason that the Elders only were saluted because the scope of Paul was to confirm the hearts of the Disciples and therefore had an eye to the weakest and those that wanted his sweet refreshing who heard of his arrival and assembled to give comfortable entertainment to him and to be comforted by him Ans. The Argument must then be thus if any Paul saluted and kissed for so is the original word as many as he confirmed and encouraged in the way of grace at Ierusalem But he confirmed in that way all and every one man woman servants rich poor Ergo he kissed them all and saluted them all Let Mr. H. see to the conclusion it is all his own 2. The Argument is not brought to prove that the word Church there noteth precisely only the Elders Nor does Mr. R. alledge it upon that account precisely but that the word Church may note some eminent professors and note a Church of all men women children yea the thousands who meet in sundry places by the grant of Mr. H. came not out to meet Paul and were saluted of him for to be saluted was but a matter of courtesie though Christian but to be comforted and confirmed in the faith is another thing Mr. H. The word Church in the Hebrew and Greek used by the Septuagint notes the Rulers of the Church not always the body and it is granted without any hurt to our cause Ans. Since the signification of words and of the word Church as Moses and the Prophets use them is frequently followed in the New Testament by the Evangelists and Apostles it is clear our Saviour Mat. 18. departed not from the received signification of the words in the Old Testament used by the Septuagint And so the word Tell the Church hath a better warrant to be expounded Tell the Rulers then tell all the faithful men women children and servants therefore the suspicion is so strong as Mr. H. said that there is no parallel Text for this signification of a male-Church excluding women and officers who
scandal ver 6. 3. As those who were to keep the feast Christ being sacrificed for them With sincerity ver 8. 4. As those who should not familiarly converse with scandalous fornicators ver 11. but all of them were to judge and put away the wicked person from among them ver 13. in a way suitable to their place that is the officers with Pauls Spirit or a pastoral authority like unto it the brethren women children of age and servants professing the faith in their way by consenting and by the judgement of discretion so far as belonged to their practise in withdrawing from the delinquent 2. Not did I deny that the Church of Corinth should have excommunicated the man before Paul wrote to them but that they should have done it without Pauls knowledge is onely said not proved and that any save officers and such as were indued with such a pastoral spirit as was in Paul could have done it is onely asserted by Mr. H. his sole word and this answer insinuates that the onely male-Church did it and they needed not any pastoral spirit onely Paul addeth ex superabundanti his encouraging consent whereas the work might have been done without officers by this new male-jurisdiction which is contradicted by Mr. Cotton and not owned by the Scripture LIB III. CHAP. I. Of the first subject of Ecclesiastick Power Of the delegated Power of the Church THere is a double Authority one Supreme and Monarchical onely in Christ and another Subordinate and Delegate which 〈◊〉 a Right given by Commission from Christ to fit personâ— to act iâ— his House according to his order By Right is meant jus or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which according to God certain persons possess in their external administrations issuing from such special relations unto which they are called by Christ. 2. It s given to 〈◊〉 persons who are capable to receive this power not to women children â—ad-men c. Therefore let the Reader take notice of that as not worthy to be considered If power be in the Church of believers then women and children may exercise it 〈◊〉 Mr. Ball Mr. R. for they are not fit persons appointed by Christ to manage this power Lastly they must act according to Gods order The whole Church is an Army terrible with Banners but the parts do fight in their own order The power is in the whole firstly but each part knows his rank the officers in their part order and manner the members in theirs The whole acts some things immediately some things mediately Ans. A Monaâ—chical power in Christ we know and authority delegate of Jurisdiction in the Ambassadors and Officers who are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 5. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Thess. 5. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 13. 17. Rulers we know but that the people or Church of believers especially separated from officers are called Rulers or indued with any delegate power over we know not whom we reade not in Scripture 2. By the Keyes he must mean both the Keyes of Knowledge and of Jurisdiction But what Scripture gives the pastoral Key to unofficed Brethren I do not know a right given to fit persons without any mentioning of the first subject the Church of confederate Saints as Mr. H. which includes women children of age servants for these are fit persons to be members of the Church built on the Rock and of the Church of Believers Ergo they are fit persons and as fit some of them to wit children of years of discretion and believing servants as the Brethren for neither Sex nor want of understanding nor distemper of judgement the three causes of unfitness owned by Mr. H. can render them more uncapable than the brethren yea the brethren being often unlettered Tradesmen and many of them dull and rude though believers are most unfit persons to judge of sound and unsound Doctrine and of controverted points whether the Pastors teach perverse things Acts 20. 29. hold the doctrine of Balaam Rev. 2. 13. or not and yet by Mr. H. they are the onely and none but they are to judge and try the learning ability of Pastors unsoundness in Socinian Antinomian Popish Arminian c. Tenets though they know no more the Tongues Arts nor Sciences than some Priests who can scarce reade the Mass-book in Latine nor understand the Languge thereof and they onely have power to depose them all for Ignorance and Heresie 2. As for women they are redeemed built on the Rock and have a voice tacit or no let Mr. Hooker say 1. To choose or refuse Officers 1. They are of the sheep that can discern the voice of Christ in sent Pastors Joh. 9 and this is Mr. H. his argument to prove that the people should call their own pastors as hereafttr he saith 2. Women must have a vote in admission of members which Mr. H. calls potestatem judicii a power of judging for they are not to own as Church members and to rehuke and tell the Church and to gain brethren and sisters blindly they by the judgement of discretion if not by more according to Mr. H. must have some hand in this Women are to try by the judgement of discretion the spirits of Teachers whether Antichristian or not whether they be of God or no and to hold what is good as men 1 Ioh. 4. 1. 1 Thess. 5. 21. Ergo they must try both men and doctrines and must as was said withdraw from the unsound and scandalous therefore what Mr. Ball and Mr. R. say touching them must be considered If the power be in the whole Church firstly then must the power of the Keyes be in all the members firstly also if Logick have place and if it be in all then it s in women How came it to women shew the Scripture And whereas Mr. H. saith The whole Church is terrible as an Army with Banners it saith the Church ruling and conquering by the Keyes both of Knowledge and Iurisdiction is made up of ruled commanders and ruled souldiers not of a number of onely brethren and souldiery acts of ruling for of the Church that beareth the Keyes Mr. H. must now speak in women Mr. R. would know for that terribleness is in acts of Discipline not a little if all be terrible then also women Your homogeneous Church which onely and none but they by Mr. H. his doctrine may lift a Banner against all the officers and depose and excommunicate them every man But Mr. Cotton saith to this What haste brother Mr. H Mr. H. This power is either a power of many when combined and this is either a power Of judging judicii or of donation Or its power in one a power of Office The power of judgement the whole hath and doth use in admissions and excommunication the same powâ—r that takes in must cast out Ans. The distinction of power of Office or Order in one who is a Pastor and of
any other Church make him a member of thâ— visible Church nor is that any thing but staple forgery the â—uler cannot compel a man to love his Neighbour but he can câ—mpel him to the external duties of love and punish him if against love he beat or kill his Neighbour He cannot compel any to the faith but if one come to years desert his faith professed in baptism both the Church and the Magistrate may punish him as a run away The Church cannot by carnal weapons saith he impose any Church-constitution as Nature gives not this power Ecclesiastick true it is a free gift of God So a civil Ruler saith he should not impose it that is a poor consequence he should impose all civil duties that are external and which the mans baptism and profession ties him unto What ever is done here saith he in the constitution of Churches is done by an Ecclesiastick Rule not by a Rule of policy This yet is most weak The Magistrate makes no rule of constitution of Churches nor any Ecclesiastical Rule as Mr. H. saith But it follows not therefore he cannot impose it when it is made The Magistrate makes not the hearing of the Gospel to be lawful but it follows not Ergo as the preserver of both Tables of the Law he may not command Christian subjects to hear the Gospel yea to me its most probable he may compel heathen people lawfully conquered to desist from Idolatry blaspheming of Christ and to hear the Gospel The man comes from China acknowledging God in all his wayes as Abraham left his Countrey Gen. 12. if he be an Idolater they should not lodge him 2 Ioh. 10. he comes not as indifferent to be married to this or this Church or to none at all as a man sins not if he marry none at all 1 Cor. 7. but if he be a professor that joyns to no Church he lives scandalously therefore the adequate cause of membership or to this membership is not mutual consent as in marriage but both parties are under a command to confess Christ before men and it s a selfish thing to make a mans own heart the Judge and Determiner of his membership and not the Churches led by the Rule of the Word and so the Church is obliged to receive him and he is obliged to joyn a member according to Cant. 1. 7 8. Mat. 10. 32. Mr. H. The power scattered in many when they are voluntarily combined they may give it to one and this is a power of Office and they may covenant to submit to him their united right Hence it is more than plain they may give a call and power to such and such to be Pastors and yet themselves be no Pastors Christ gave some to be Pastors Ephes. 4. he furnishes men 1 Corinth 12. 28. Ans. Where is Mr. H. his Logick now Why made he not once a Syllogism or a face of a Consequence 1. There is a power scattered in many What power of ordaining by laying on of hands to make men to be Pastors which were none before By what shadow of Scripture or Reason is this said one half of a Command or Promise or Practise shall silence me if they may give their scattered powers of Jurisdiction to one they may create a Monarch an Arch-Pastor or Pope over themselves I judge Mr. H. thinks not so but Scripture should here speak and not Mr. H. and tell us who gave to people to men and to women who have no less a power to know the voice of Christ in this Pastor and to choose an officer than men the scattered powers official to call and create officers 2. They may give this power to one prove this it s a non â—ns a power of ordaining even virtual they have not therefore they cannot give it 3. Christ gave gifts to men God hath placed Pastors in the Church Apostles what Ergo the people gives power of being Apostles Pastors to men who were not Apostles and Pastors before This is Mr. H. his Argument Are Mr. H. his words Oracles and Principles that cannot be denied 4. The people men and women as sheep choose a Pastor by no act of Iurisdiction saith Amesius but rather by Subjectione and Election makes not a Minister but onely appropriates his labours to his people quoad administrationem saith Cyprian Ordination is the call and juridical sending Now the Apostles and Presbytery ordained Elders Tit. 1. 5. laid on hands and ordained Acts 6. 6. 1 Tim 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. committed the charge to faithful men able to teach others 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 3. 1 2. 3. shew me so much for your new Male-Church excluding Females who may be unbaptized men converted in China Mr. H. A divided power in many is not an united power from many The peoples is a divided power lying in many combined and therefore not the same Hence the power of judgement is not the power of office and therefore the fraternity may have the one when they have not the other Ans. Here is no Argument at all This new Church that now is called the Fraternity a new name not in Scripture in this sense hath neither a divided nor an united power to make ordain and call to the holy Ministery one who was no Minister before and so the question is begged A divided power to choose in many is not an united power It s true of the power of electing and choosing of Officers they are divers powers and therefore the society hath the united power of choosing a Minister but some men there alone have not a power being divided from the Church of women children and servants 2. Mr. H. finding himself ebbe in proving he tells us that the fraternity may have the power of judging and not of office and he hath given no Word of God to prove that the power of office and the power of juridical judging for of that we now speak for the judgement of discretion women have are different that is in divers subjects But I deny that any hath official power but that man hath juridical power also or that any hath juridical power but he hath also a power of office Mr. H. brings no argument of the weight of a feather on the contrary I deny not but they have divers formal exceptions and because the power of judgement is not the power of office therefore the fraternity may have the one not the other Weak Logick Differunt conceptibus formalibus Ergo differunt subjectis A power of discoursing rationale is not a power of laughing risibile sure and therefore saith this simple Logick a man may have the one and not have the other that is a man may be rational and yet not risible I am sorry that godly and judicious men build such hay and stubble upon the foundation 3. Why does Mr. H. give this new Church a Latine Name The Fraternity that is a Church of Redeemed ones built on
not as a congregation so our Brethren in this as in many other points abuse but expound not the word Mr. H. The power of the keys is in her the Church congregational of Believers as in the cause subordinately under Christ and it may thereby here be acted as potestas judicii in admission of members in the absence of Ministers in censuring by admonition for each man is a Iudge of his brother and there is a judicial way of admonition when the parties are in such a state as in foro exteriori they can make process juridicè against each other so there is a power of gift in all elections Or else this power of the keys is communicated from her to the officers the soul doth not see but by an eye makes an eye and sees by it so that the Church makes a Minister and dispenseth Words and Sacraments by Officers Answ. We seek Scripture and see only Mr. H. his naked assertions 1. The power of the Keys is radically in the Church of redeemed ones to wit the male-Church of redeemed ones a creature for name and thing not in the Word 2. That this male-Church by a judicial power admits members prove that 3. In the absence of Ministers this is done then Ministers and Elders with the male-Church excluding women aged children judicially admit members then all female members and children and servants with blind obedience must own these members and watch over them prove this for women have neither consent nor vote 4. That every one may judicially process another that is judicially accuse one another and complain and bring witnesses against one another and prove the scandal that is true and may judicially accuse before the Church the daughters or servant women yea or men that are incorrigible after private admonition but that the members of the male-Church judge one another by the power of the Keyes is the question Give us Scripture for it 5. There is Potestas doni a power of a gift in all elections well a power of a gift of discerning trying who shall be my Pastor sure women have their gift of discerning why should Pastors be obtruded upon women blindly should men have dominion over their faith I am glad that Mr. H. gives no juridical power to the call and making of Officers but only a power of gift Potestas doni But the Church communicates this power of the Keyes to the Officers that is the male Church of redeemed Brethren This is proved by no word of God but by a similitude in which it is said by poor Physiology The Soul makes an Eye and the Brethren make their Officers which we deny God makes them by the laying on of the hands of the Elders Acts 6. 6. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Mr. H. The power of judgement is the Church formaliter Ans. It is often said never proved to be formaliter in your male Church CHAP. III. Whether Mr. Hooker his Arguments conclude strongly that the People have a power of judging MR. H. 197. The power of judgement is in the Rulers directively as formally in the people they out of an office power leading the whole proceeding therein Ans. I never heard that a chief member either Speaker in Parliament or President in Councel or Chair-man in Committee or Moderator in Assembly was a place of juridical power or office over the Judicature or Members of the Church a place of priority of order it is which one may have to day and want to morrow for the nature of order requires that one open the Assembly and moderate the meeting if this be all the official power that Mr. H. gives to officers is weak and of no worth 2. There is no power no act of ruling and governing given to the Pastors above the Brethren For 1. To call an Assembly Ioâ—l 2. Is not proper to the officers the Assembly by its intrinsical power from Christ may convene in his name Nor 2. To examine members whether they be Apostles or not by their way cannot be proper to the Elders ruling for it agrees to other members as welâ— as to them 3. Ordination is and may be according to our Brethren and creating of Officers though Mr. Cotton make it peculiar to Officers because of Act. 6. 6. 1 Tim 4. 14. as Mr. Cotton cites yet Mr. H. saith the Brethren may do it 4. It is no act of the Key of Authority that the Elders open the doors of speech more then that one speak before another or that Elihu speak more then the rest of the friends is no act of the power of the Keyes Nor 5. Is the preparing of matters and receiving of complaints by our Brethrens way proper to them then to other officers more since Mr. H. saith all equally have the power of the Keys from the Church of Brethren What power of the Keyes the Pastors have in preaching and exhorting they have it rather over the congregation then over the male-Church of Brethren nor is it so properly a superiority of rule as of doctrine which in Synods they have over Churches nor can the Pastor have a directive power as a Pastor over the brethren since by M. H. his way they may judg and censure him Can the King be their Judg with a directive power who not being a Parliament may judg authoritatively whether he should be King or not and may dethrone him Mr. H. Arg. 1. Ejusdem ist instituere destituere The people have power to consure and depose Officers in case of heresie or otber iuiquity for they gave power by election to Rulers Ans. It is ordinary to our Brethren to prove in a Circle the fraternity have power to chuse Officers ere they have power to depose and they have power to censure excommunicate he whole being above the part ergo they must have power to ordain we deny the Fraternity can either make or unmake officers 2. That is not so undeniable a proposition an Assembly of Officers a Church of thirty may constitute themselves in a Judicature and so may a Parliament by an intrinsecal power in themselves Ergo they may for heresie and scandal against the Law of Nature destroy and censure themselves it followeth not 3. Apostles were immediatly called of God and made Pastors habitu by that call and special direction of the spirit which was in stead of Election Paul is forbidden to preach in Bithynia and called to preach in Macedonia how many times should the Pâ—ostles be made Pastors and unpastored again if the present call be that only which makes them Pastors Levites were ordained to serve the Tribes joyntly and when the Tribes were dispersed the Levites were dispersed and remained Levites in whatever place they came to as Mr. Hudson sheweth 4. If Pastors be baptized and members of the Churchonly to which they are chosen Pastors then as to the former part they and all other baptized to one single
dissent so as it shall be no marriage In which case the Fraternity onely or Male-Church formally intrinsecally judgeth and may judge though there were no officers as the Maid may marry though Parents and Tutors were dead and the directive authority of the officers may be wanting as the directive authority of the Magistrate may be wanting 2. The officers cannot consent to a sinful sentence it s not their duty to sin nor can they dissent from a just sentence for then they might hinder the execution of a just sentence and the officers shall keep communion with a man whom the people excommunicates and that the people may erre is too well known in the condemning of Ieremiah of Christ and of others And whereas he saith The dissenting shall blemish the wisdome of God it s answered already It blemishes our folly but not his wisdome when people are divided from Rulers and Rulers from people 3. There is a midst between consenting to an unjust sentence and a dissenting from a just sentence to wit a consenting by the judgement of discretion tacitly to a just sentence in which there is a causality popular nor judicial nor juridical coming from the inherent power of the Keyes Mr. H. Arg. 4. It crosseth the rule of righteous proceeding to understand the Church Mat. 18. of the Elders onely Suppose three Elders in a Church all have been convinced before witnesses in private of an offence they will not hear the offended brethren must tell the Church that is they complain to these three Elders of these three Elders and make the guilty both judge and party in their own cause 2. Suppose of these three two be offenders the grieved party must tell the third and so one shall be the Church Ans. This inconvenience follows clear from the hampering of all power of the Keyes within one single congregation in the midst of six congregations round about 2. The Book of Discipline of New England saith A Church Independent may consist of four officers and three brethren three brethren are offenders if they cannot in this case tell the Elders onely for they are not the Church Mat. 18. saith Mr. Hooker Ergo the three offending brethren must complain to the three offending brethren and make themselves both Judge and party therefore the Argument necessitates us to tell the Elders of associate Churches Mr. H. Arg. 5. If the power of judgement be in Rulers then it is either in some or one to wit Peter and to hâ—m derived from the rest and that is Popery or it is in them all equally for those that are equal in commission are equal in power but that is not for the teaching Elders are in degree and also in power superiour to the ruling Elder Ans. The issue of this Argument is to strip the officers naked of all power of Rule and Mr. H. must take it away off his own way as well as off ours 2. The teaching Elders are worthy of double honour above the ruling Elder 1 Tim. 5. 17. for they speak to us the word of the Lord Hebrews 13. 7. and are the Ambassadors of God who in Christs stead beseech us to be reconciled to God 2 Cor. 5. 20. Their feet are pleasant because of their message and in this have power above ruling Elders and those who serve Tables Act. 6. and above the brethren and Church as being sent of God with pastoral power not onely vi materiae by vertue of their commands but as in an Epistle is spoken judiciously to this purpose by Mr. Tho. Goodwyn and Mr. Philip Nye by reason of their Ministerial Authority Now how they can be equal in commission of judging to the people is the question for as the woman is independent in regard of intrinsecal power of consenting or dissenting in point of marriage the Parents directive power of commanding extrinsecal as the judicious Prefacers say so the Fraternity is the onely judging society by them Yea Mr. H. saith The Elders are superiour to the fraternity or brethren I would he had said to the sisters also in office rule act and exercise and in managing the censures are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 overseers by Hen. 13. 17. How are leaders and overseers in the same managing of censures equal in power and not above those whom they lead and oversee yea to whom they are to yield obedience as Mr. H. cites to that purpose the place Heb. 13. 17. are Parents equal in power who do command the Virgin whose it is to consent to the marriage 3. Let the godly Reader consider whether the Brethren though believers yet ignorant of the mystery of Balaams doctrine and of Iezobils teaching Rev. 2. and of the learning and qualification of pastors and of the deep and subtile Heresies for which pastors must be cast out are by the Word of the Lord equal in judicial power and trying of Doctors and Pastors with the Rulers whose office it is to know more of the minde of God than Brethren and whether are they by Divine Institution so Mr. H. If Rulers alone have power to excommunicate by Mat. 18. then may three Elders excommunicate 400 or 500 brethren and if so Rulers should not onely censure the fraternity but destroy themselves for where no flock is but all are excommunicated there are no shepherds Besides as Ames saith a body cannot be cast out of it self Ans. 1. Observe in all these six Arguments there is not one jot of Scripture but the one Magna Charta of Mat. 18. where yet Mr. H. will not stand to the signification of the word Church 2 They are not there alone to excommunicate the Church of believers without the consent of the Church and we judge it no way of Christ to excommunicate not 400 onely but six thousands who all made one congregation of Ierusalem say our Brethren But Mr. Cotton saith well in the case of the defection of a congregation to blasphemy and persecution and no help by a Synod is to be hoped for the Elders may withdraw and separate disciples from them and carry away the Ordinances with them and denounce judgement against them 3. D. Ames whose name is savoury in the Church of Christ saith But if a Church should be excommunicated then a body having and retaining its essence should be cast out of it self No Judge can properly punish himself but the Presbytery and Synod may declare a Synagogue of Satan to be a Synagogue of Satan 4. It is against the meekness of Christ and not warranted by any Scriptures that faithful pastors that are pastors to the universal Church should be unpastored because this or that particular flock to which they were sent leave off to be the flock of Christ that is as much as because they are faithful in his house Christ will have them cast out of his house The argument will conclude That the Church excommunicating all the officers destroyeth it self Of this before also
organick body but it hath power to edâ—fie it selfe as totum essentiale Ans. Christian edifying one of another in divers congregations 1 Thes. 5. 12. Col. 3. 16. Heb. 3. 13. by women and children of age we deny not but a Church edifying without Pastors or a perfecting of the body without officers Eph. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 12. 12 13 28. 1 Cor. 14. 4 12. we find not 2 Your male-Church edifying without Pastors must also edifie as an organical body In it women and children be silent and some unofficed brother teach pray and preside in the creating of officers and do the like when the Officers turn grievous Wolves and are to be cast out for then some unofficed brother must be Mouth and Organ to the rest and that is the very charge that Peter sustained in pastoral preaching at the creating of an officer and the Apostle Matthias Act. 1. 15. Mr. H. Let Mr. R. tell how God set teachers in the Church if teachers be before the Church Ans. Let Mr. H. tell how God giveth breath to them that walk on the Earth Isa. 42. 5. Was there breath before there was a living man walking on the earth or was there a living man walking on the earth before there was breathing Teachers are before Converts as Fathers are before Children Iohn Baptist and the Apostles were before such as they converted to the faith and baptized Noah before the Vineyard which he dressed God planted Apostles and Teachers even in the organical politick Church before it was a politick organical Church for by setting Organs in the body he made it an organical body but it is a senseless inference Ergo these Organs who are both Organs and Fathers and causes procreant of the Church had no being before the politick Church had being for natural organs in a physical body are only organs but not causes of the natural body but politick organs may be both and in this case are both Mr. H. To these are the Keys promised who are Stewards of the mysteries of God 1 Cor. 4. 1. servants of his house 2 Cor. 4. 5. Ans. The Servants are Pastors and Teachers in these places then the ruling Elder shall bear no Key Ans. Yet the conclusion is strong against the unofficed bearers Mr. Cotton the New England Discipline and Paul are herein as much crossed as I am for to them the ruling Elders are Stewards applying in censures in the external Court of Christ the Word as the Teachers apply it concionally Mr. Cotton makes the ruling Elders to be included with the Teachers of Ephesus Act. 20. And by the Argument Mr. H. may deny office-power of overseeing the house to all but to such as labour in the Word and Doctrine Mr. H. The places Isa. 9. 6. Revel 3. 7. speak of Monarchical power in Christ onely and prove not the point of delegated power Ans. Nor did I bring them for any other end but to prove that the Keys whoever bear them Head or Servants do signifie a power of office steward Oeconomus Commander of the Castle and so are never given to unofficed brethren for which cause I brought Fathers Doctors Divines Protestants Learned Papists saying the same And Mr. H. passes them all without an answer So the Learned Pagâ—in Mercerus Shimlâ—rus Buxtorf Ark of Noah Mr. Leigh and all Dictionaries expound the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when given to House Prison Gaol Kingdom and Stephanus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Mr. H. dictates against the authority of all the Learned Interpreters and Linguists and tells us besâ—de an office power it noteth Matth. 16. a judicial power of the spouse and wife to admit unto or reject out in the family as cause requires But 1. one word of Scripture he gives not 2. Nor saith Christ Matth. 16. any such thing as he gives the Keyes to the Church upon the Rock as the formal subject though it may be gathered he gives them for that Church as the object and final cause Mr. H. To these Mat. 16. doth Christ give the Keyes to whom be giveth warrant and official authority for actual exercising of opening and shutting but this he giveth to Peter as representing Teachâ—rs and Elders to thee will I give c. whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth c. So Mr. R. Ans. All may be granted and the official authority may be formally in the officers and originally and virtually in the Church 2. The proposition is fallâ— to wit to them the power of the Keyes is given firstly to whom warrant and official authoritie is given for the exercise of the same Keyes for the power of the Keyes is larger then office-power Ans. 1. My Argument is yet wronged to the same person to whom he promiseth the power or keyes or the power in its essence actu primo to the same person he promiseth shall exercise the specifick acts of the power and the second acts that must be the first formal subject to which God proâ—iseth a â—…sonable soul and the second and specifick acts of discoâ—rsing and that must be essentially a man Now unofficed brethren are not Embassadors but they are onely these to whom the Embassadors and officers are sent 2. By Mr. H. the â—eyes must in their official power begiven to Peter as representing the Guides â—nd also the power of the Keyes in the power of ruling must be given to Peter as to the first subject representing believers If the Text speak this it is a new conceit that never an Interpreter dreamed of and it must be made out that Peter iâ— spoken of in the Text in that â—â—ofold relation but that Peters binding and loosing on earth are acts of office or at least include â—cts of office and acts both of concional and also juridical remitting and retaining of sin and who despiseth Peter and the officers in either despiseth Christ and him that sent him is clear and that remitting and retaining sins is a binding and loosing cannot be denied and that remitting and retaining of sin flows from Christ calling the Disciples to an office is as clear Iohn 20. 21. As my Father Apostled me so send I you receive the Holy Ghost whose sins ye pardon they are pardoned c. And that this is a clear commission to Peter and all officers in him to exercise an official power of binding and loosing is apparent by this Text if by any in the New Testament But Mr. H. against this clear Text saith here Pastors have good warrant for their office power because the Church hath received power to admit chuse and refuse officers c. But because Mr. R said they have clear commission for the Keys both in power v. 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the acts and exercises 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and what thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven But though the place be clear and all Interpreters teach it yet will not Mr H. grant
Church for these that have been and now are glorified and shall be and are not yet born and that now are but none of the two former are capable subjects of the Keyes 2. The proposition is not mine nor the argument the Keys are given say I to the guides of the Catholick visible Church as to the formal subjectum first and proper and are exercised by them by the consent of the people men or women nor should any new act of Doctrine be passed or weightier points of discipline in Assemblies until the people hear of them the keyes are given to and for the whole Catholick Church of beleevers as the object and end for the gathering them in to the unity of faith Eph. 4. 11 12. and as this visible Church falleth under the intention and decree of God to be saved they are one and the same persons with the invisible Church as the body of Christ Eph. 4. 12. is taken for both the invisible body It is 2. taken more largely as the Catholick visible body comprehends all that hear and profess subjection to the Gospel elect and reprobate and the Lord gives a ministry seals and visible membership to all and every one of this body to Esan to Iacob to Iudas the traitor as to Peter a beleever not to bring all and every one of them to the unity of faith and to the acknowledgement of the Son of God but for other unlike ends finibus disparibus to save some to make others inexcusable Mr. H. If all ministerial power saith Mr. R. be given to a congregation as our brethren say under the name of a flock of redeemed ones as the body of Christ Acts 20. 28. Colos. 1. 18. Then it belongs to the Catholick Church for these titles agree first to the Catholick visible Church Colossians 1. 18. Ephesians 1. 25 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19 20. and so they come to our hand Ans. The Catholick Church admits of a threefold apprehension 1. As it implies a covenanting congregation of beleevers 2. As it represents the whole ut totum representative an Oecumenick Council 3. Ut totum integrale as it is the whole Catholick Church spread all the world over if Mr. R. mean the first we agree but the guides cannot be the first subject for the Catholick Church and the guides are different The second part Mr. R. grants that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a congregation under the name of the flock c. Hence his cause must needs suffer shipwrack that the Keys are given to the ministry of the Catholick Church Ans. That the first member of your threefold apprehension hath any warrant in Scripture or sound Dâ—vines is a meer apprehension I desire the Reader to consider the Catholick Church Aâ— 1. It implyes a covenanting congregation of beleevers give a warrant from Scripture sound Reason or Divines for that The Catholick Church is the whole body militant on earth excluding none but a congregation of covenanting beleevers excludes all Churches on earth except fourty or fifty persons 2. The Catholick body organical of man includes all the body and organs of it head eyes mouth tongue feet c. Now what sense is here the Catholick organical body of man admits of a threefold apprehension 1. It implyes the congregation of five fingers combined in the hand and the hand is predicated of this or that hand and so is the Catholick body of the whole Catholick organick body of man Or to come to a politick body the Catholick body of England admits of a threefold apprehension 1. It implies the congregation of all the City of York covenanted together and the City of York is the Catholick body of England which is predicated and affirmed of this or that City of York No man speaks so but onely Mr. Hooker that I know Since the world was no man can say a single congregation take it either in the common nature of a congregation of a 1000. or for this or that congregation that a congregation is the Catholick Church no more then the hand is the Catholick organical body of man 2. Mr. R. grants saith he that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a Congregation under the name of a flock c. Answ. Reade my words if I deny not that and speak onely according to the grant and confession of our Brethren 2. Onely hypothetically if all power Ministerial be given to a congregation by our Brethrens confession under the name of a flock of Redeemed ones c. then it belongs firstly to the Catholick Church i. e. to the congregation I never dreamed that a congregation was the Catholick Church and I should be crazed in judgement if so I had spoken And how the Keys are given or belong to the Catholick integral body as the object and final cause to the Guides of the Catholick Church as the first formal subject I often declare and what shipwrack or breaking of board is here let the Reader judge I difference between the Ministers and the Catholick Church by this means but that Mr. H. hath said not one word to my Arment If power priviledges spiritual be given to the congregation as the redeemed flock and body of Christ then must power and priviledges be given first and principally to such a company to which these styles of The Redeemed of Christ The Body of Christ agree first but to be the redeemed of Christ to be the body of Christ to be his redeemed ones agree first not to the Church of Ephesus nor to any particular Church National Provincial Presbyterial or Congregational but to the whole Catholick Body Ioh. 3. 16. 10. 11. 11. 52. 1 Ioh. 2. 2. and when Christ is called the Head of the Body Eph. 1. 22. Coloss. 1. 18. I shall judge him scarce worthy the name of a Divine I cannot expound the places of a single congregation 〈◊〉 Eph. 1. â—2 Col. 1. 18. the holy Ghost speaks of that Body which is the fulness of him who filleth all in all Eph. 1. and of the Body of which Christ iâ— Head as the first begotten of the dead and of the whole body reconciled by the blood of the cross if it be said the congregation in its common nature is the first subject of the Keys for it contains all the Catholick Church Ans. It contains no women aged children servants nor sojourners nor dismembred visible Saints and therefore the congregation Independent in any sense is a narrow and impertinent subject of the Key and this is shipwrack really to the cause of Mr. H. as for that that the Church Cant. 6. is a congregation in general and that the Church is one there genere in kinde it s against the Text. 1. The congregation is not one but hath threescore Queens fourscore Concubines Virgins without number who are integral parts of that one Catholick Church ver 8. but essential parts of a congregation
follow them in as far as they follow Christ. Nor is delegation the formalis ratio of determining synodically it is only a necessary condition of determining and of synodical judging Obj. But Mr. R. saith Amen to this distinction of Mr. Parker Ans. True these two fitness and gifts together with a commission make a man a commissioner and messenger of the Church but delegation makes him not a formal Definer and a Judge nor do the Churches send them as officers but as such eminently able and faithful men who have hazarded their lives for the cause as Act. 15. 25. and they determine as such eminently holy and able officers their delegation is a thing of meer order because all cannot be sent nor doth it create them of new officers nor yet such eminent officers for they were both these before only their delegation puts them in an actual orderly capacity to determine formally Ut approximatio ligni aridi ad ignem non est formalis ratio comburendi Mr. H. Mr. R. l. 1. p. 305. to 309. runs all upon this the power of the keyer by order of nature is only in the Catholick representative body but the power of the Keyes was before there was any Representative some 300. years when there was no Oecumenick Councel and since the Churches give their power and officers to the Assembly they had that power before the Assembly Ans. Read from c. 10. sect 10. p. 289. to p. 346 347. where I speak of the Catholick Church I say only that such a synodical power of the Keyes as is dogmatick especially for light and peace as Mr. Cotton speaketh is first by order of nature in the Oecumenick Councel the doubting and contending Churches cannot bind Ecclesia dubitans non docet Ecclesia errans non judicat Ecclesia contendens non ligaâ—n on solvit for the doubting the erring the contending of Churches are no ordinances of God and erring and contending Churches cannot heal themselves and therefore the healing power is seated by Christs appointment in the synodical Church which is more diffused and stronger as is clear when the Churches of Antioch and Iudea are broken renâ—and sick the wisdom of God Act 15. hath appointed that these should meet in a Synod of the select and choicest parts Apostles and godly Elders Ergo the healing power of the Keys must be first in them 2. Mr. R. runs not but assâ—rts lently that power of the keys in binding and loosing and in opening and shutting heaven in the latitude of preaching and censures Mat. 16. was not before Christ gave it to the Apostles the then Representative of all the faithful guides to be in the Church christian to the worlds end and this grant was made to Peter and the Apostles not as to such private men Simon such â—ishers but by evidence of Scripture truth 2. The testimony of all sound Antiquity 3. The judgement of Protestant Divines 4. Canons of Councells 5. The Doctrine of sounder ancient School-men and Popish Doctors Occam Alenâ—is Almain Gerson Bonâ—venture c. not only not 300. years after but before Christs death and confirmed before his Ascension to heaven That ever Mr. R. said that the power of the Keys in their latitude of binding and loosing was in an Oecumenick Councel a Representative of formally sending Churches and a body of formally sent Commissioners is utterly denied and no where to be seen in any book that ever he wrote Such as cite him at random would remember 3 that I teach that the power of the Keys 1. In its latitude is first given to the Apostles Mat. 28. 19 20. Mat. 16. 18 19. Iohn 20. 21 22. Mark 16. 15. Act. 18. as the only then Catholick representative body sustaining the person of all officers to the end of the world and so the first formal subject of the power of the Keys in its latitude is not either the congregation or congregational Eldership nor the Presbytery or Synod all these are but parts and to make a quarter or a part of the body of the Sun the first and adequate subject of light and a quarter or a part of the body of the Element of water the first and adequate subject of the cold and moistness since these qualities are kindly in the rest of the quarters and parts of the body of the Sun and the body of the Element were bad Philosophy So the adequate first complete formal subject of this power must be the integral Catholick body of the guides as existing in their several Churches for this power is as kindly and natively in the guides of this Church as in the guides of that Church and equally in all 2. The power of the Keys as this power synodicall is considered either in the breadth of synodical power and so to condemn Catholick errors and heresies is in an Oecumenick Councel and where the local distance of visible Churches is greater and wider the external visible communion in being edified or scandalized is less and less use there is of censures A General Councel being onely necessary for the optimum esse the most Catholick union and peace of the Catholick Church that such a Councel is an ordinance of God Mr. Cot. proves from Act. 15. 3. As the power is narrower it becomes narrower then Oecumenical and descends to National to Provincial to Presbyterial to Congregational and all these are parts only 4. Though the Churches send Officers to the Synod and have some power of the Keyes in their kind before the Synods have being yet Mr. H. can hence conclude nothing of his purpose against me for it follows not Ergo the male-congregations have the complete power of the Keys in its latitude before the Synods have being nor does it follow that congregational Churches or Presbyterial have that complete power before Synods have being nor do they confer if we speak accurately a synodical power of the Keys they only send messengers who are materials of the Synod but the synodical power is in its parts scattered in the Churches of the Province and Nation as Immes of Gold in divers parts of the Earth and the synodical power comes from the institution of Christ who promises the holy Ghost and fulfils his promise as Mat. 28. 20. compared with Act. 15. 28. Nor can the scattered Churches bring forth of themselves any synodical power of the Keyes when they are met in a Synod the promise made to such as are gathered together in his name does the business and therefore that is soon blown away It is unpossible that a proper quality can be either in nature or time before its subject thâ— gives it beâ—ng but the power of the Keyes was 300. years before there was any General Councel in the world For this proves only that some certain power to wit formally synodical cannot be until the Synod be 2. Grave Divines judge the Synod Act. 15. to be a General Councel but though it were
Church catholick D. Whitaker saith the catholick Church contains not only the Church of our time but the Patriarchs Prophets Apostles and all the Saints which have been are or shall be to the end and is this Church which is made up of the Churches of these times visible These Monks must be exceeding sharp sighted saith Anton. Sadeel who see this Church and see the Apostles and Martyrs in Heaven 3. Nor hath Mr. H. cause to cast this signification of visible that it is taken for conspicuous and glorious Nor is it worthy the refuting that he â—aith that Bellarmin distinguisheth visible and conspicuously glorious for he must split a hair of the head as to its latitude who can distinguish Bellarmins fifteen notes many of his own side reduce them to a fewer number 2. Conspicuity of glory is but visibility in such and such ways as amplitude and multitude all the world over visibility in glory of preaching of working miracles and victory over their enemies and external prosperity which are things most visible and not done in a corner 3. Their own men speak not but as Mr. Hudson doth the Jesuits of Rhemes An. 3. on Matth. 5. explain this conspicuity The light of the World and City on a Mountain and Candle upon a Candlestick signifieth the Clergy and whole Church which must needs be visible to the World See how D. Fulk and Mr. Cartwright answers them Malderus a Bish. Antwer profess Lov. in 22. de virtu Theol. de Obj. fidei disp 1. Aâ— 10. q. 3. The Catholicks yield that the Church is not ever aequè conspicuam alike conspicuous Res. ad 3. Habet tamen suas proprietates visibiles It hath its visible properties true miracles works of holiness antiquity visible succession perseverance on the rock and this is all one as to be conspicuous and visibly glorious Gregor de Valentia Tom. 3. in 22. disp 1. q. 1. de Obj. fidei punct 7. 6. propriet p. 142 143. The Church is not adeo conspicua that it may be seen with the eyes but yet it may evidenter omni seculo conspici be evidently in every age seen known and pointed out by the finger as a City on a mountain Matth. 5. as the Sun in the Heaven Psal. 19. And disp 1. q. 1 punct 4. pag. 78 79. he proves the glory of miracles and other the like make the Church of Rome and not of Sectaries as he names us to be visibly known to all the world And Tannerus Tom. 3. de fide spe q. 1. dis 3. dub 3. n. 85. Insignibus quibusdam notis inter omnes alios coetus eminet its conspicuous and glorious above all other societies by these properties that it is One 2. Holy 3. Catholick in Doctrine Time Places And Causabon in Epistola ad Cardinalem Baronium Olim Ecclesia Catholica similis civitati supra montem positae nullo pacto dubia erat sed nota omnibus perspicua certa longè latèque per orbem diffusa sub Imperatoribus florens quorum dominatio ab ortu ad Occasum à Septentrione ad Meridiem porrigebatuâ— at distractionem imperii postea secuta est distractio Ecclesiae Catholicae ex illo tempore Ecclesia Catholica non desiit esse quidem sed minus illustris esse coepit So Iunius disp Theolo 43. Th 11. It may be there is no particular Church publicè nota publickly known on earth but that all have losed their external splendor And what this differs from conspicuity and glory let Mr. H. or any man shew and what glory and conspicuity is in the Christian Churches and what Sea-ebbings and flowings that glory hath read though all be not to be believed which some say Philip Nicolai l. 1. de Regno Christ. c. Bellarmin de notis Eccles. l. 4. c. 7. Io. Gerard. to 5. de Eccles c. 11. sect 5. n. 184 185 186. Euseb. l. 5. Hist. c. 24. Cyprian de unit Eccles. Tertullian contra Iudaeos c. 3. Vega. in opus de fid oper praesertim c. 3. Acosta Iesuit de procuratione Iudorum salutis 4. It s not to be passed that our Divines condemn a visible catholick Church only under one Pastor the Bishop of Rome the ministerial head and catholick Pastor of Pastors over all the catholick Church on earth and taking upon him to be Pastor of Pastors yea and the Church of Rome is perpetually visible and saith Valentia the Pope is the only head of this catholick visible Church The Hereticks saith Suarez deny in the catholick Church subjected to the Pope as the visible head proprietates ullas visibiles any visible properties by which it may be known from the Churches of Satan And therefore the Church must be invisible and therefore they deny omnem externam hierarchiam Ecclesiae caput visibile regulam fidei animatam visibilem all the external sacred order of Prelates the visible head the living and vâ—sible rule of faith That visibility of a head catholicâ— and visible body under that head we profess that we deny Now that the Pope should be the only Pastor of a Church which by no possibility he can see and that he is the only feeder of such a flock to him invisible Suppose he had the eyes of Arguâ— ten thousand times is that visibility of a Church catholick of a Church Diocesian which we deny and detest but we deny not but teach that the Church is visible in a right sense And 1. we teach that the catholick Church militant on earth is visible in its parts though it be not in its whole bulk and body all at once visible as Amesius who also is in some points for this new way of Independency So the whole body of the Heaven in both the Hemispheres is visible when enlightned with the Sun yet is not the whole Heaven all at once visible to any man living So the whole element of Water is visible not all at once and yet is so visible in its parts in the parts of the Sea Rivers Floods as it were non-sense to say such a part of the Heaven and of the Sea as in day light is obvious to our eyes were simply invisible in that sense that we say the mystical body of the catholick Church of sound Believers is invisible and believed but not seen 2. Therefore the Church catholick is 1. considered as comprehending all the families in Heaven and Earth Eph. 3. 15. Heb. 12. 22 23. Col 1. 20. this is the most large catholick Church consisting of elect Men and Angels 2. The catholick Church is that company of redeemed men for whom Christ died and it contains all that have been are or shall be that are clarified and presented without spot or wrinkle sanctified by the washing of water by the word Eph. 5. 25. Husbands love your Wives as Christ also loved the Church 27. that he might present it to himself a glorious Church c. and to this is the
Judg. 2. 19 20. Deut. 29. 25. Ezek. 2. 3. yet if they repent Lev. 26. 42. then I will saith God remember my covenant with Iacob and also my covenant with Isaac and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember and I will remember the land I will not cast them away c. Nor is this a Temporeâ—â—â—rcy onely 〈◊〉 Ezek. 38. 24 25. 1 Kings 11. 32. 8 19. 〈◊〉 Kings 19. 34. 20. 〈◊〉 Psal. 132. 10 Isa. 37 35. Now if the Parent nearest be the adequate cause the mercy is not conveyed by David oâ— for Davids sake as the Scripture saith more than to the wildest Pagan And that 1 â—or 7 14. must be meant of the farther off children as Rom. 11. 16. If the root be holy so are the branches he means the branches to be graffed in again v. 23. the branches beloved for the fathers sake v. 28. far off branches not yet ingraffed again until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in v. 25 26. Mr. H. In the place Exod. â—0 the Lord â—ies not himself to a law but walks in breadth as best beâ—â—omâ— his Wisdom so â—e eximes some from the threatning and withhelds the expression of his love from others Ans. The expressions of the Lords love and mercy is one thing the Lord useth the latitude of soveraignty here and the extending of covenant-mercy to the thousand generations is a far other thing 2. When Mr. H. saith that the Lord withholds the expressions of his love from others in the thousands mentioned if he mean the expressions of his covenant-love as he must what is this from contradicting the words of the Text Calvin whom Mr. H. misciteth saith it s meant of covenant-mercy to be propagated to the thousand generations according to that I will be thy God and the God of thy seed Now neither Scripture nor Calvin ever meant by seed the nearest seed of the nearest parent onely Quod Dâ—… gratia inquit Calvin in famâ—… pâ—orum aeterna resideat Perkins is as clear in this I wonder that Mr. H. was not afraid to cite these worthy servants of God for an opinion so repugnant diametrally to the letter of the Scripture and 10. To the longanimity and patience of God For an earthly Prince making a covenant of grace with a man and his family were it grace and gracious dealing to cut off all his posterity for the fault of onely the nearest parents so as all the rest of the blood-line should be to him as damned Traitors and Rebels And 11. It close everts the liberty of God in his free election of grace for doth not Scripture and Experience teach that the Lord never sent his Gospel to a Nation but he had there among them his chosen ones both of the seed of the Elect and Reprobate Acts 18. 9 10. and therefore the Nation called of God by the Gospel is also the chosen of God and the loved of God according to the most precious part So the Scripture Deut. 7. 7 8. 10. 15. Eph. 1. 1 2 3. 1 Cor. 1. 26 27. Psal. 132. 13 14. 15. 147. 19 20. Now if he should eâ—â—t off men from the covenant for the real defection of the onely nearest parent he must remove the Gospel for the same defection and conclude himself that he should not choose to life the children of some Reprobates contrary to Scripture and it s as great a wonder to me that Mr. H. should claim to Zanchius for this opinion for he expresly refutes it Mr. H. They who imitate the sins of parents may expect plagues they that follow the obedience of faithful parents may expect mercies Ans. It s impertinent for such as follow the sins of parents are none of the thousand generations of them that love God not the latter of them that hate God 2. Though both these be true Mr. H. must prove that mercies promised Exod. 20. are covenant-mercies derived from the nearest parents onely else he saith nothing for his owne cause Mr. H. The mercies here promised are not all the particular blessings and priviledges that the parents were possessed of Israel wanted circumcision fourty years in the wilderness and in the time of the Iudges and in the 70 years captivity they wanted sundry priviledges they enjoyed under David and Solomon the mercy here must be grace and glory Ans. 1. This is for me But when Mr. H. would have Infants of nearest parents excommunicated to be excluded both from Baptism and Covenant-mercy and have them in the case wholly with the Infants of Pagans they must be excluded from grace and glory else Mr. H. must shew with Anabaptists some way of Salvation of Infants who are without the covenant and so have no share in that onely precious Name by which men are saved 2. I hope Mr. H. will not say Israel wanted circumcision in the Wilderness for the sins of their nearest parents onely there was a physical impediment the Lord who loves mercy better than sacrifice would not have Infants wounded in that â—earisome journey Nor was it for their nearest parents Idolatry onely but because they and their fathers from Egypt until that day Ezek. 2. 3. rebelled they were deprived of this other priviledge 3. Mr. H. must prove that the people in the Wilderness in the time of the Judges a stiff-necked generation who did worse than their fathers despised mocked and killed the Prophets were all of them visible converts a generation of lovers of God and such as kept his commandments Mr. H. This being the meaning as Calvin Zanchius Junius Perkins what inference can be made for the conveyance of the right of Baptism from remote parents to children I know not for how doth this agree to children to love the Lord and keep his commandments who are not yet capable being not come to years to put forth such acts Ans. I shall not invite Anabaptists to triumph in pulling this Argument for Infant-baptism from our Divines for if the words must be expounded of actual love to God and actual obedience in Infants so that if Infants be not capable of actual love and obedience to God the covenant-mercy must be broken off in all Infants who die before they can come to years to actually to love the Lord and keep his commandments And if the flux of covenant-mercy be suspended while Infants come to be capable to actually love God and obey him where then shall be covenant right in the males of the Jews to be circumcised and in the Infants born of covenanted parents under the New Testament to be baptized For the Argument if any be must be thus To such as cannot actually love God and keep his commandments for want of age there be no covenant-right to Baptism conveyed But this want of age and capacity to love God and actually obey him is in all Infants in Old or New Testament except Mr. H. mean that nearest parents can supply the want of capacity
Pagans O Scriptureless cruelty to make God to break the covenant first the parents continuing in covenant-obedience and suffering for Christ Mr. H. Men of approved piety in covenant with God visibly are to be admitted to the seals saith Mr. R. but saith Mr. H. gracious men be pertinacious Ans. Pertinacy in a scandal marrs approved piety but because they approve not your way are they therefore pertinacious Mr. H. To be a member of the visible Church in general and have no particular existence of membership in any particular congregation is a fansie as to say there is a part of manhood not existing in John Thomas or any Individuals Ans. Mr. H. fansies there is a promise of continuing on the Rock made to the congregation in general and yet this or that congregation falls off the Rock 2. Mr. R. his Church-general is no abstract generick nature but an individual integral Catholick body existing in all the earth and one is baptized a member to all congregations jure and exists and dwells in one only as a man may have right to all City-priviledges and yet may reside and actually enjoy only the City priviledge of London Mr. H. imagines that our Catholick integral Church is genus and the Congregation species and if so the Church of Boston should be the whole integral Catholick Church and the little finger the whole body of Iohn CHAP. IX A new device of Mr. H. his two sentences the official and dogmatical sentence of officers yet not concional nor juridical and another juridical of the male-male-Church is examined MR. H. It is the office of Rulers dogmatically to discover the mind of God and the mind of Christ in convincing by witnesses the offenders and preparing the cause And the brethren have no more power to oppose the sentence of the Censure thus prepared and propounded by the Elders then they have to oppose their Doctrine for the Elders may preach it as the word of God by vertue of their office Ans. 1. Scripture tells us nothing of two sentences 2. Two Judicatures which lead witnesses 3. Two sorts of binding Judges This then is will-worship 2. No Scripture tells us of leading of witnesses to convince Delinquents concionally by way of preaching Old or New Testament not Mr. H. must here speak Rev. 2. 2 14 20. Acts 15. Matth. 18. 1. 1 Cor. 5 1 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. and elsewhere we read of but one juridical censure by the whole Court and of one sentence If he hâ—aâ— not the Church c. they are not Apostles but lyers Rev. 2. 2. Iezabel should not be suffered to teach Who can dream that these wâ—… first concluded dogmatically or ought to have been so câ—…ded by the officers in one Court and then were concluded juridically by the male Church 3. These words Tâ—â—l the Church whether must they be then tâ—…ll the Officers that they may dogmatically determine or tell the male-Church that they may juridically determine and yet one of these bear the name of the Church by our Brethrens way Or 3. Tell the Church of Redeemed ones which is their only Church The first is our Church of Rulers which they cannot endure the other two cannot subsist 4. Who gave ruling Elders a joynt power to preach juridical sentences which must binde the unofficed brethren as the preached Word of God for they have no calling to labour in the word and doctrine 1 Tim. 5. 17 and how can they preach except they be sent Rom. 10. 14 15 5. How can rude and unlettered men who labour not in the word and doctrine by vertue of their office dogmatically resolve deep points of Heresie more than unofficed brethren and predetermine their conscience should the ruling Elders lips that way preserve knowledge and should they as the Messengers of the Lord of Hosts with the pastors carry the Word of God so binding others What they do in Synods is a far other thing for there they act juridically rather than dogmatically and joyntly with Pastors and Doctors 6. This sentence must lay bands upon the consciences of the male Church so that there is nothing left to them but to obey and can obeying and submitting to the Word leave any room to judging in an authoritative way sure by this they must either hear and believe after a popular judging or then reject and so must women and children of age and what place then is left to juridical sentencing by the Elders or Brethren yea so the Churches freedom of judging is none at all when the Church may no more oppose that dogmatick sentence than they may oppose the Word of God in the mouth of their officers and what greater power can be given to any then what is given to this Independent Eldership 7. When there is a contradiction between the two sentences which of the Judicatures must be supreme If the dogmatick be supreme they may dogmatickly determine that the fraternity ought to be excommunicated for opposing the Word of God in their sentence and who can excommunicate an Independent Church And again when the Elders themselves turn Wolves who then can give out an official and dogmatick sentence against them that must be wanting and hath not the like of this brought forth among Brownists reciprocal excommunications CHAP. X. Of Synods and their Power MR. H. Synods are necessary for union in the Churches In the multitude of Counsellors there is safety Acts 15. Prov. 16. Ans. Union in truth and peace among Churches say these Churches must make one visible Body then ruptures rentings scandals must say there is in this body visible a necessity of Government and Jurisdiction must be incident to that visible body which they deny for this union must be a professed union to speak and think the same thing Phil. 2 2. c. 4. and this is visible union and so they must meet not in their members that is unpossible and here is a visible Church meeting for Civil it is not debating advising about matters of government of the House of God So strong is truth Mr. H. There are associations of divers sorts Classis Synods Provincial National Oecumenick Ans. 1. A general Councel is before mocked as a nothing and the Brethren bring arguments against the being and nature of Synods Commissioners Representees The contrary is here asserted Mr. H. The acts must t is saith Mr. R. 〈◊〉 Ecclesiastick Decrees Ans. Ambignity darkness to binde as a part of Scripture is 1. That which is contained and clearly deduced from Scripture Or 2. that this act of decreeing issuing from the immediate revelation and assistance of the Spirit maketh that which is decreed to be Scripture in the former sense acts tie as good advice and counsel onely in the latter they tie not as Scripture Ans. No man I do not say its done consultò more darkens I brought three members to clear the matter Mr. H. leaves out the third and darkens all for acts of Synods
counselling Mr. Cotton for command and use of the Keys yields also so the question shall not be of the subject but of the power and of the bounds where acts of free choice of rectified reason for civil ends also have place But the Conclusion is naught So That which is not in the Word saith he is a device of man I assume the frame of the meeting-house for congregational Worship the number names trades callings of members the quantity of water in Baptism the quantity of Bread that every one eats aâ— the Lords Supper are no more in Scripture than the Territories or bounds of Presbyteries yet are they not for that humane devices Mr. H. It is doubtful that all our singular actions as Mr. R. saith are mixed for eating and drinking must be for Gods glory and Omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vel mala Ans. If Mr. H. doubt of this Ames Didoclavius can speak to it There is such a thing as an action indifferent as Augustine saith or rather Ierome that is neither good nor evil but it is not a humane action properly as to spit or purge the nose But see all the Schoolmen Scotus Thomas Lombard and all that writ upon them and you shall never reade this new Axiome Omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vâ—l mala Durandus indeed and the Schoolmen say that every act individual which followeth deliberate reason is necessarily either morally good or evil See Greg. de Valentia 2. For the mixture of our actions its cleare there is something physical in eating at the Lords Supper as the word hath not set a rule concerning the physical quantity of Bread and Wins so there be not too much for it is not to feed the body nor too little for it must work upon the senses And there is in praying preaching the tone the accent of the organs of the voice and their motion so that we eat and drink for God and soberly and seasonably is moral and squared by the word but a man sins not in eating quickly or lently in the house or in the garden or sometime in his bed sometime at midnight upon necessity Mr. Hooker errs not a little in calling the acts of the Synod Act. 15. Councels such as godly men and women who are not Apostles and Elders may give to others for counsels are not burdens laid upon the people and Churches by the wisedom and authority of the Holy Ghost 2. By Apostles and Elders who sharply rebuke the pressers of circumcision as subverters of the soules of people 3. Neither are they indifferent advices â—hich they might reject but these they could not reject without despising God and the Holy Ghost the very thing that the Lord saith he that dispiseth you dispiseth me which cannot be said of a counsel of the Heathen man to a Christian. It is saith Mr. Cotton an act of the binding power of the Keys to bind burthens as Acts 15. 27. 4. The Decrees of no properly so called Church on earth are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Decrees of Apostles and Elders Mr. H. calls them only Advices and Counsels is it not safer to believe Luke Act. 16. 4. then Mr. H But a Synod is never called a Church say they this is but to contend for names for the word Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is three times Act. 19. 32 39 40. given to a civil meeting and Mr. H. will not have it given to bodies meeting for the affairs of the Church of Christ. Mr. H. Where there is no delegation of messengers by mutual consent there is no right of jurisdiction decrees onely bind the Churches who send them Ans. Antioch Act. 15. 2. and Ierusalem sent messengers therefore two Churches at least were sent and were bound as for delegation we shall speak hereafter of it 2. If they ought to send and stand in need of light and peace and send not they are the same way tyed that some hundreds absent when Iezabel is sentenced and excommunicate are obliged to withdraw from communion from her though they were not present to consent to the sentence Mr. H. It s no prejudice to the care and wisedom of our Saviour that the punishing of the congregational Throne be reserved to God only Ans. When scandals between congregation and congregation and members of divers Churches are greater in number and offence and necessity of edifying and scandalizing greater his wisedom must provide for the more rather then the less Mr. H. If when a Church offends I must tell a higher then must I at length tell an Oecumenick or General Councel Ans. General Councels being more abstracted from infecting scandals of conversation are rather doctrinal Remedies nor are censures the ordinary possible adequate way of removing of Scandal The Word and Censures exercised in the Catholick integral visible Church in parts integral is the adequate cause Mr. H. If every man be allowed his appeal to an higher then also to a General Councel then for many hundred years while the appeal be discussed pendente appellatione the appealer cannot be censured Ans. We allow only just appeals in case of oppression to relieve the oppressed 2. In difficult cases Deut. 17. which rarely are such as call for a general Councel in case of general defection in point of Doctrine such may be and the inferiour Churches that truth suffer not are to declare for the truth 2. We allow only what men jure may do 3. The argument supposeth that we approve a towering up of appeals even to a General Councel as a liberty of every member whatever unjust prejudice be in it and that every such appeal may stop the actings of Christs visible Kingdom and called Pastors Christ hath given no power to sin Mr. H. It s a wonder that because Churches may rebuke yea Christians may rebuke Heathens though not in a Church way that therefore the Synod hath a power of jurisdiction Paul rebuked the Athenians Acts 17. A 〈◊〉 these acts of Church communion Ans. My argument is not à genere ad speciem sed specie ad genus These convened in the name of Christ by the Holy Ghost who 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with one consent by way of suffrage and judgement 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 15. 9. 21. 25. rebuke perverters of souls Act. 24. 28. and lay on burdens and commands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to observe Act. 21. 25. and keep such things and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to abstain from such things Act. 15. 29. and give Decrees by which the Churches were established in peace and truth Act. 16. 4 5. these have power to excommunicate the refusers of such acts according to Matth. 18. for Paul and Barnabas were scandalized and complained to the Church of Antioch Act. 1. who sent them to complain to a Synod at Ierusalem Act. 15. 2 3 6. and these who in a Church-way determine
of Christ by faith make one body and that he excludes not but includes the visible body he proves from 1 Cor. 12. ye are the body of Christ and Eph. 4. the body gathered by the Ministry of Apostles Evangelists Pastors c. which shall be brought to the unity of faith So Christ is the rock of life and the rock of faith to the Church builded upon the rock which admits not Magns who is not builded upon the rock as Ioh. Hush refused a wicked Pope to be head or member of the Church so built Hieronymus clearly expounds the ports of Hell to be Viâ—ia atque peccata reâ—r vâ—l certè 〈◊〉 Doctrinas sins or herefies which is strong for the invisibâ—e Church of true believers not for the visible congregation of which Iudas and Magus are members to Mr. Hooker and were never built on the rock And the Keyes are given to Bishops and Presbyters who may not under that pretence condemn the innocent And Hieron Com. Mat. 18. 18. Si Ecclesiam non audierit quaecunque alligaveritis potestatem tribuit Apostolis ut sciant qui à 〈◊〉 condeâ—nantur humanam sententiam divinâ roborari quodcunque ligatum fuerit in terra ligari pariter in coelâ— See Hieronym Com. ad Eph. 4. 11. who expounds the body of Christ of the Church until we all meet all the company of believers And Hâ—eron Let the Bishops hear who have power of ordaining Elders in every City Nor need our Brethren suspect Hieronymus to be prelatical his judgment is known to be contrary thereunto See Hieron in Tit. 1. 5. See him for the present purpose in Opuscul in Prover c. 7 p. 217. See Ruffinus for the marks of the true Church saying with us That pure doctrine declares a pure Church and so the Churches which Marcion Valentinus Ebion and Manicheus and other hereticks gather are not true Churches Chrysostom If the ports of hell prevail not against the Church far less shall they prevail against me therefore thou shouldst not be troubled Peter when thou hearest that I shall be crucified Then by the mind of Chrysostom Christ speaks here for the comfort of Peter as a sound believer and not as an external visible member of a congregation as saith Mr. H. And see here a fisher-man is made Pastor and Head of the whole Church Then it could not have been the mind of Chrysostom that such a headship whatever it was or whether peculiar to Peter or no is another question was given to the people Chrysostom expounds tell the Church tell the Rulers Chrysostom As a King sending Iudges gives them power to cast guilty men in prison and to deliver them so sends Christ his Disciples and arms them with authority Will any dream that Chrysostom judgeth that Christ gave this power to the people Chrysostom saith the Apostles take to themselves to determine the number of the Deacons and to ordain them but they give the election of the men to the people lest the Apostles should seem partial and to favour men Mr. H. saith the contrary Valiant Athanasius makes the Church builded upon a Rock to be a strong an unshaken promise and that the Church is an inseparable thing although hell it self were moved and these that are in hell and the Princes of darkness should rage Sure this great Witness never meant any such invincible promise to an external visible congregation and its members Iudas and Simon Magus Peter himself who received the heavenly Keyes sinned saith Athanasius Hilarius commends the Rock which breaks the ports of Hell and sayes that men are loosed or bound in Heaven by condition of the Apostles sentence then doth he not think it the sentence of the people Let the learned judge of the ancient writings of Clemens that Epistle of his to the Corinthians read sometimes in the ancient Church will have Mr. Hookers visible converts only Church-matter though he writ to them as the true Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yet he writes of a sad change of their profession such as was in Israel when they made defection to Idolatry 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It were hard to say such a company are all visible converts 2. Clemens seems to deny to the people power of commanding and to say that the preachers ordained Bishops and Deacons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cyrillus Alexandrinus upon these words I will give thee the Keyes he gifted universally all the Apostles with power over unclean spirits then neither the one power nor the other gave he to the people Cyril Alexan. in Isa. l. 5. pag. 393. Cyrillus tom 2 dialog de Trinitat l. 4. pag. 278. Peter is so called from his most firm and unshaken faith in qua Ecclesia Christi ita fundata ac firmatt essâ—t ut non laberetur esser expugnabilis inferorum portis aeterâ—…um manens on which the Church is built that it cannot fail but remains for ever cannot be overcome by the ports of hell Cyrillus well knew single congregations are not invincible and he speaks of such a saving faith as Magus cannot have it came from the Father teaching ex ineffabili eruditione superna c. See what Apostolick dignity he gave to them which he gave not to the people Cyrill in Ioan. l. 12. c. 56. page 699 700. Cyrill on Isa. 5. c. 60 page 383. August tom 10. Dom. 11 post Epiphan sect 2 page 235. Tertius modus est quomodo totus Christus secundum Ecclesiam id est caput corpus praediceturâ— etenim caput corpus unus Christus non quia sine corpore non est integer sed quia nobiscum integer esse dignatus est membra Christi corpus sumus omnes simul non qui hoc loco sumus tantum fed per universam terram nee qui tantum hoc tempore sed qui dicam ex Abelâ—…sto usque in finem seculi quandiu generant generantur hominis It were needless to prove a visible integral catholick Church all the world over not in Asia onely from Augustine 2. Or to prove a mixture of tares and wheat of good and bad in the visible Church and that they are not visible converts that are members of the visible Church 3. How far in the communion of the Church and of Sacraments mali maculent contaminent bonos see August-cont Epist. Parmen Mr. H. deviseth a way for this It s referred to a mans free choice without any compulsion of any to what congregation he shall joyn himself or not and though the doctrine and ordinances be most pure yet he may keep within himself the causes of his not joyning thinking such are profane and so there is little or nothing of Christs presence in this Church But the formal cause of joyning to a Church in which one should reside is not the holiness of members but the soundness and purity of
pertinent Lutherus in loc quia habet pius populus propitium Deum condonabuntur ejus peccata So the Donatists Augustin contra Epist. Parme. l. 11. c. 3. manua nim vestrae sanguine coinquinatae sunt â—…mo loquitur juâ—â—a c Respo Austin Quos isto loco Scriptura describit ubicunque fuorint inter bonos non obsunt bonâ— sic ut non obest palca frumentis c. Sec Augustin de unitat Eccles. M. H. his contradiction of visible Saints membere and non-visible Saints members is naught 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. 1. Aristot. de reprehens Sophist 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Church passeth no judgement upon Magus when he is a member admitted and baptized that either he is a reall chosen or a reall convâ—… 〈◊〉 reall non-chosen or a reall non convert but their judgement abstracteth from both The same in an other dresse the Donatists object to Augustin contra Epist. Parmenian l. c. 2. 9. objiciunt ut quid exponis justificationes meas c. It s a naughty consequence hypocrites are sinfully unfit to be members without the Churches knowledge ergo the Church sinnes in admitting of them M. H. must make all Israel savoury professors and reall converts in the judgement one of another before ever the Lord of free grace called them to be his people M. Can necessity of Separat Sect. 3. 176 177. an 1642. objected the same and M. H. does but an 1648. repeat the same and M. Ball answers it pag. 30. 71. The wicked are forbidden to meddle with the covenant of God does David say they are fobidden onely at their first admission to be members to bâ—eak the third commandement in taking the covenant in their mouth while as they are wicked and if so Iezabel continuing a member is not forbidden to meddle wâ—th the covenant yea the scandalous mâ—mbers which as M. H. must be tolerated for a time aâ—e fit members and may take the covenant in their mouth How ehe preaching of the Gospel is a note of the visible Church and how not There may be a Church and Church-members before there be any Seals An hearing and Church-profession may be in persons and societies before they be baptized The visible Church is a society dayly more and more inchurched Our brethren and the Sociâ—iâ—â—â— give us a very uncertain way of knowing the Church Remonst in apolog c. 22 doctrinae praedicatio est anterius quid Ecclesiâ quid absurdius Erge id quod aliquando prius est ecclesiâ eâdem posterius erit nota enim notate suo posterior est Idciâ—…ò quiâ— p aedicatiâ— est aliquande instrumeâ—…um ecclesiae colligâ—… non poâ—…sse certâ— atque infell thiâ—â—s nota eâ—… ollâ—… vide fol 241. 2â—2 Socinianus Voshelius de vera religione lib. 6. c. 16. primò igitur ad salutem consequendam simpliciter necessarium esse non videtur ubi Christâ— Ecclesia sit perquirere Minimè consequens est ut quia Christus ecclesiam adire audire jubet â—deirco ubi existat ea inquirendum nobis omnino sitz loquitur iis qui jam ecclesiam agnoverunt Ait ibidem ad salutem aeternam nihil aliud requiri quam sidem peâ— sidem in Deo per Christum collatam cujus spiritus atque animaest obedientia How excommunicated persons are members of the Church how not The place 2 Thess. 3. 14. mistaken by M. R. and our brethren How preaching many years to infidels is a note of the Church how not What sort of preaching of the word is a note of the visible Church What is to be thought of a lecturer that preacheth constantly to many of diverse congregations See for these lecturers in prelaticall times M. Can his il-grounded challenge of lecturers Necess of Separat pag. 49. 50. and learned M. Buls answer to M. Can c. 5. Sect. 1. pag. 84 85 86. That setled preaching is a note of the visible Church Though scandalous men as adulterers ought to be cast out yet M. H. loosly inferres ergo they had never right to be admitted members M R yields not the cause because he gives two answers to the same argument one to the rigid Separatists another to our brethren False matter makes a Church to be no Church by our brethrens way M. Can. Necess of Separ Sect. 3. pag. 176. 177. that which destroyes a Church and maketh it either become a false Church or no Church at all cannot be a true Church nor true member of the Church Way of the Churches of New England chap. 3. sect 3. pag. 56 17 58. printed London ann 1645. M. H. his conjecture of visible Saints The argument such as were the members of the Church of Rome Corinth such should the members of our Church visible be scanned and foundfaulty M H contradicteth the book of discipline of new England Hookers survey par 1. c. 2. The places cited by our brethren for visible membership prove that they were read converts and predestinate to glory who are right members visible Christ dealt not with Iudas in a Church-way it is a dream void of the word This visible Saintship destroves the faith hope joy thanksgiving of Saints chap. 3. Sect. 3. 1 Cor. 3. 16. the place much mistaken Concili Teldent sess 6. c. 6. Bellarmi Gregori de vâ—â—â— Our brethren argue from a grown up Church to an unplanted Church this is a high tall-tree ergo it was an high tall-tree when it was first planted Way of the Churches of N. England ch 1. sect 1. By our brethrens way there must be sons and a fed flock before there be fathers and shepherds to feed them By our Brethrens way none are converted by a visible ministerie and by pastors and teachers 5 Cor. 3. 15. By M. H. his way no pastor as a pastor hath any command of Christ to intend to convert his â—…k or any â—ember thereof M. H leaveth out that word wherein the strength of M. R argument stands and utterly mistakes him There must be two contrary intentions in God by our Brethrens way M. Hooker ibid. 2. Inference See Answer to 32 questions answer to sect 9. q. 10. q. 1. q. 2 See M Baylie vindicat of disswasive an 1655. pag. 1. c. 16. pag. 38. 39. Answer to 32. Quest. sect 1. pag. 7. 8. 9. pag. 25. 26. 27. ans to q. 10. p. 29. Both Mr Hooâ—â—r and M Robinson and the Sepaparatists teach that there can be none members of the visible Church but onely real converts and such as are chosen to life and so contradict themselves and this is no calumny which M. H. chargeth on them So M. Robinson whom M. H. desends justification of separation against Mr. R. Rernard propos 3. pag. 112. So hath every true visible Church of Christ direct and immediate interest in Christ and title to Christ himself and the whole Nâ—w Testament See pag. 113 114 115. Ans. Why saith he not the true visible Church hath direct and immediate interest in Christ c. in
non à sola imaginatione ut cùm quâ—s fricat barbam pâ—ocedens est individuo aut bonus aut malus secundum circumstantias Quia vel habet finem debitum vel non debitum Mr. Cotton Keyes of the Kingd c. 6. p. 23. Synods have more then power of counselling Absents from the Synod are tied to obedience Page 60. It suits not with the wis dom of Christ that no remedies should be for a scandalous Church What appeals we allow The juridical power of Synods is concluded from Acts 15. and their Church-way of rebuking c. Of the Samaritans and their â—eligion See Tostat. Abulen in 4. Reg. c. 17. qu. 24. Ioan. Wolph Com. in 2. Regn. c 17. v. 24 25 c. pag. 346. The Jewes deservedly excommunicate the Samaritans Weemes Christian Synag par 7. Diatrâ— 147. Origen To. 4. in Ioan. receperunt tantum scilicer libros Mosis Epiphanius haer 9. Ioseph an t 11. c. ult Quando res Iudaeorum erant prosperae se Iudaeos alioqui Assyrios se dicebant Iudaei convitium jactantes Samaritanum appellabant Ita Hieronym Epist. ad Algas 4. 5. Ioseph l. 13. antiq c. 14 Religione corruptissâ—… crant Samaritae Carol. Sigon de Rep. Hebr. l. 1. c. 3. Ex Iosepho Ephraimitas praedicarunt se Iudaeis ab Antiocho Epiphane asflictis Samaritae perterriti se non Deum Iudaeorum sed Deos colere asseruerunt nec se Israelitas sed Sâ—doniosesse dixerunt Templum ipsum Iovi Cretensi se dedicaturos esse professi sunt atque ita praesentem armati Bâ—gis iracundiam eluserunt August in iocum Ioan. 4. Omnino vasculis eorum Iudaei non utuntur The acting of Apostles in things belonging to many Churches wiâ—h the Churches concurrence proveth that a Synod hath Church power A Synod acting some specifick acts of a governing Church may act all the rest of the acts of the Church Peter Acts 11. gives an account to the Apostles Syrus Chrysostomus Valde offensi expostulabant Epiphanius haer 28. Beza alter carunt Gualth in loc homil 67. Atque semper eam in Ecclesia veteri consuetudinem fuisse cernimus ut Episcopi ab Episcopis sese judicari corrigi paterentur Calvin ibid. Sponte Ecclesiae judicio se submisit Lorinus Cornelius à Lapide in loc Summus pontifex non imperiose refutat non dicit vestrum est obedire c. Act. 21. Paul submits to a Synod of Elders Calvin c. 2â— Colligere licet ex hoc loco quoties tractandum erat serium negotium Seniores convenire folitos fuisse c. Gualith homil 138. In Ecclesia ordine certo opus esse nihil enim privata authoritate agit c. Lorinus Corn. à Lap. in loc Surv. par 4. p. 32. That proposition of Mr. H. Those whom pastors cannot judge over them they have no pastoral power is many wayes false Private men as private men and as no pastors are made by M. H. the only spreaders of the Gospel to heathens Hieron in verb. Qui usque ad consummationem seculi se cum discipulis futurum promittit illos ostendit semper esse victuros se nunquam credentibus recessurum Chrys. in verb. Ut ex omnibus Gentibus Ecclesiam id est fideles sanctos mihi congregetis Par. 4. c. 37. The essence of a pastor is not in their call suit to whom he is sent Evangelists are now ceased as well as Apostles Rich. Hookers Eccles. Polit. l. 5. sect 78. p. 421 422. Euseb. l. 〈◊〉 c. 34. Tilen Syntag. dis 19. th 38. Apostolorum vice ubi res poscebat fungebantur Profess Leyd in Synops. purior Theol. dis 〈◊〉 thes 17. p. 605. Bucan loc Com. 42. q. 45. Calvin Com. Eph. 4. Apostolis proximi erant Evangelistae munus affine habebant Bullinger ib. In plebe potissimum eâ—udienda Zanch Com. ib. Apostolorum Comites non immediate miâ—â—â— sed assumebantur D. Ro. Bodius à Trochoregia Com. Eph. 4. p. 493. Apostolorum Comites modo huc modo illuc missi modo re vocati ab Apostolis extraordinarii Par. 4. pag. 38 39 40. The Church of the Jews was no more peâ—…se kindely but only accidentally a national Church then any kingdom under the N. T. is a national Church Surv. Par. 1. c. 5. p. 5. p. 59. arg 5. The Church was visible when there was no seal neither circumcision â—o 〈◊〉 Calvin Com. Act. 7. v 6. Interea commonefiunt Judaei fuisse Ecclesiam Dei etiam Nationalem alibi quam in terra in qua degebant fuisse electos patres in populum peculiarem sub fide tutelaque Dei protectos antequam staret Templum vel instituti essent externi legis â—…s haec ad generalem cautionis scopum pertinent Gualth in Act. 7. homil 45. in v. 16. Ideo mortuos in Aegypto ut constet illos in â—a Religione diem obâ—â—sse quae nullis externis ceremoniis nitebatur sed in sola fide c. To swear a covenát agreeth to all Kingdoms covenâ—nted visibly with God as well as to the Church of the Jews A National Church differs not in nature and essential causes from a National typical Church See M. Robinson justif of Separat p. 145 160 161. who widely argues the Church of the Jews being National having one High Priest one Altar c. being now done away is not our Rule See pag. 162 163 164. Ans. We argue from the nature of the Jewish Church in gene al as National in Egypt in the Wilderness as Gods people in covenant as we our seed are before they had a Temple an Altar c. yea the synagogue worship was a sufficient Church-worship whatever M. Robinson say Eusebius de vita Constant. l. 3. reckons it to be an 333. Tomâ—s of the Councels Hist. Magd. cent 4. c. 9. Theodoret. l. 1. c. 30. alibi c. 17. c. 35. Socrat. l. 1. c. 27. 32. l. 2. c 8. 20. Sozom. 1. c. 7. l. 2. c. 16. l. 3. c. 5. Ruffia l. 1. c. 5. 6 c. l. 4. 〈◊〉 6. D. 〈◊〉 3 Gen. Controv. concerning Councels p. 120 121. M. Patr. Symson câ—â—â— 4. c. 4. Review of the Councel of Tâ—â—â—t in Prench translated an â—638 by Gen 〈◊〉 D. Fulk Ans. to the Rhemists on N. T. Act. 15. An. 4. An. 5. p. 289 390 391 392 393. Tâ—o Cartwright his answer to the same Rhemists Act. 15. An. 4 5 6 7. p. 293 294 295 296. Whitaker de Conciliis Our nationalcovenant is sworn by Independent Churches in single congregations apart A national oath is lawful under the New Testament Par. 4. pag. 40. See Dan. Chamier in loc Com. l. 6. c. 7. pag. 286. in Baptismo voveri Deo Lombard l. 4. dist 38. Com mune votum quod in baptismo faciunt omnes Zanchius Tom 4. l. r. in 3. praecept thes 1. th 2. page 635 636. th 4 5. Et seq obligatio jurandi interdum oritur ex ipsa naturali lege ut reveletur