fiue hundreth yéeres haue kept themselues within their bounds and therefore they haue not lied If Caluin had said that the Church whereof wée bée had continuance for no longer time then the first thrée hundreth yéeres where Luther had said before that it had continuance for the space of foure or fiue hundreth yéeres And M. Iewell comming after them both should haue said the continuance was for the space of the first sixe hundreth yéeres in such perfection as in the first thrée hundreth yéeres then this Offerer might haue taken some oecasion to note disagréement such as is to bée séene amongst Heretikes But now hée hath no iust occasion at all Caluin considered that during the time of the first 300. yeeres the Church of Christ was still vnder tyrants and was persecuted and was thereby kept occupied in better exercises then in such pompous and ceremonial diuine seruice as now is vsed in your popish Catholique church And therefore hee is bolde to say that the Church whereof wee Protestants bee is the same that was in the first 300. yeeres after Christ for wee haue abandoned as farre foorth as wee may all those superfluous ceremonies as haue bin diuised by men and enforced vpon the Church of Christ since the ende of the first 300. yeeres which are in deede too too many as by the woords of saint Augustine Epist. 119. August in Epist 119. Ad Ianuarium Seruilibus oneribus premunt vt tolerabilior fit conditio Iudeorum c They oppresse vs with seruile burdens so that the condition or estate of the Iewes was more tollerable then ours is None of all those burdens were layde vpon the Church before the ende of the first 300. yeeres but the Christians being vnder the crosse of persecution serued God in fréedome of conscience were not tied to any necessity of ceremonies but vsed a few such ceremonies as séemed to serue best for their edification in their exercise of religion and so doo wée and that congregation also amongst whom Caluin liued which might mooue him to say that the faith and religion that is professed by vs was practized in the first 300. yeeres after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ But this Offerer requireth some better staied certaine tale c. bicause Luther and other doo differ from Caluin He must know where when this sodaine change from the protestants religion to the papists was made as in what yéere of our Lord c. If it shal please him to read it aduisedly to weigh euery part of it hee shall haue heere as plaine a tale concerning this matter as euer hée did read or heare And thus it beginneth When Christ Iesus had giuen so large a commission to his Apostles as to go into all the world to teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father of the sonne of the holy Ghost they executed that cōmission with al painefull diligence not fearing what man either would or could doo against them And so in short time the knowledge of the gospell was spred all the world ouer as the Apostle Paule writeth to the Romaines Cap. 10. Rom. 10. citing the woords of the Prophet Dauid Psal 19. Psal 19. Jn omnem terram c. The sound of them is gone out into all the world c. But the doctrine of the gospell which they preached was not so regarded in the city of Rome as it should haue bin as it séemeth that this Offerer and his fellowes bée persuaded that it was at that time wherein saint Paule was brought prisoner to Rome which was in the tenth yeere of the raigne of Nero but foure yéeres before S. Paule ended his life At that time the chiefe amongst the Iewes that then liued in Rome being called togither by S. Paule and being occasioned by him to speake of the christian Religion they said thus Wee are willing to heare of thee what thine opinion is for we doo know that this sect is euery where spoken against Act. 28 Act 28 Yea and when S. Paule was first called to his answere before the Emperor the Christians then in Rome were so faint hearted that they did leaue him alone as he him selfe hath written to Timoth. 2. Timoth. 4. 2. Timot. 4. In prima mea defensione nemo mihi affuit sed omnes dereliquerunt me non illis imputetur c. In my first defence no man did take part with mee but all did forsake mee God grant that it bee not laid to their charge but the Lord did assist strengthen me c. And this was more then thirty yeeres after our Sauiour Christ had sent foorth his Apostles to preach If Peter were bishop of Rome at the time that S. Paule speaketh of in that 4. Cap. 2. Timoth. surely then hee performed not the parte of a good bishop neither yet of a good christian For amongst all hee must needes bee one And S. Paule saith that all did forsake him But let this passe The estate of the whole Church was no better in those daies yea it was not much better at any time during the first 300. yeeres after Christes ascention For when Constantinus the first christian Emperor began his raigne Syluester then bishop of Rome had not his aboade then in Rome but made his dwelling place in some caue in a mountaine named Soracte xx myles distant from Rome that so hée might bée more safe from the tyrannie of the Romaine Emperor But when hee vnderstoode that Constantinus was likely to bee fauorable to the Christians hée repaired to the City By this it may appeare of what account the Romaine bishops had bin what publike open preaching of the gospell there had bin in the City of Rome during that time of the first 300. yeeres It appeereth in Hystories that they had their places wherein they met and had the preaching of the woorde ministration of the Sacraments but those places were not such as Saint Peters Church which is now in Rome For that Church with the rest of the Churches in Rome were not then builded as in Platina and in other Hystories it appeereth By this you may see what cause Caluin had to say that the Catholique Religion which is the same that wee protestants doo now professe was practized for the space of the first 300. yeeres after Christ From that time forward Religion began to decline by litle and litle from that perfection that it had continued in vnder persecution and to grow towards that great decay that it came vnto in the dayes of Bonifacius the third Martin Luther therefore and M. Iewell with the rest of the authors of the Apologie of the Church of England had iust cause to say that it continued in the Romish church for the space of the first foure fiue yea sixe hundreth yéeres after Christs ascention for the Romish church was not altogither fallen away from the Catholique Religion before shee had taken
it if he were caught or else béene enforced to abiure and so goeth it with such at this day and so is it lyke to continue so long as your Antechristian mother shal be able to doo any thing The thousandes which that mother of your hath in this tyme of the last thousand yéeres murdered in Italie in Bohemie in Germany in Portinggale in Spaine in England in Scotland and in the late massacre in Fraunce doo all with one voice crie vnder our Alter Christ saying How long Lord thou that art holy and true doost thou not iudge and reuenge our bloode vpon them that that dwell on the earth Apoc 6. Apocal. 6. If you had not altogether lost your inwarde sight you might sée that the crie of these holy Martyrs is hearkened vnto for sixe of the seauen Angelles to whom were giuen seauen Vialles sull of the wrath of God haue already powred out theyr Vialles at the commaundement of God and the seuenth is ready to power out his Viall and shall shortly power it out into the ayre And then shal that great voice procéede out from the temple of Heauen euen from the throne saying Factum est It is finished Apoc 16. Apoc 16 This voyce shal be terrible to your Popish Catholique mother and to all you her children But most comfortable to the true Catholique Church of Christ our mother and to all vs her children I say therefore vnto you as Christ Iesus sayd to the Angell of the Church of Laodicea Apoc 3. annoynt thine eyes with eye salue that thou maiest sée c. Apoc 3 Thus I hope I haue made it plaine enough to as many as will sée that the Church whereof all right Protestantes are members hath brought foorth all those thousandes of Martirs that you speake of when you say that not one of them was of our congregation fayth or beléefe whiles they liued in this transitorie estate And that she hath brought foorth and nourished vp thousands moe in the tyme of thesâ— latter 1000. yéeres which your mother the Popish Catholique Church hath murdered and made Martirs Wherefore submit your selfe now and recant although you would not before The eight Offer Offerer Eight Wheras the Apostle S. Paule testifieth that Christ gaue vnto his church some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists some Pastors and Doctors ad consummationem sanctorum in opus ministerij and so to continue to the edifiing of the bodie the Catholique Church vntill his comming againe Now if the Protestants shal be able to prooue by ecclesiastical histories of all ages the continuance vse of the sayd functions and degrees in theyr congregations and that by some orderly succession and plaine account made from Christ his tyme hetherto they haue neuer lacked the sayd appointed officers or that any other Church of Christ hath had at all times and the continuance of the same I shall then recant and relent and not before Crowley Ephe 4 It is a strang matter to sée how impudently this Offerer dare set downe the wordes of the Apostle Paule in the 4. Chapter of his Epistle to the Eph. as testifying that for an in fallible trueth which is as false as God himselfe is true That is that our Sauiour Christ hath appointed that hys Church shall haue Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Doctors continually tyll his comming againe and that in a continuall and orderly succession Amongest the learned interpreters there is not one that hath noted anie such meaning in those wordes of the Apostle It is verie true that our Sauiour Christ made choyse of such men as he had made méete to be his messengers and sent them foorth first into those Citties that belonged to the Kingdome of Israel and after his resurrection he sent them into al the world commaunding them to teach all nations Baptising the beléeuers in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holie Ghost And by the ministerie of those and a fewe others whome he dyd afterward stirre vp and ioyne in commission with those hée planted hys Church in all quarters of the world Those were the Apostles of whome Saint Paule wrote to the Ephesian 4. saying Hée gaue some Apostles These contynued in executing theyr offyce fathfully and painefullie tyll they had runne out the rase of theyr naturall lyfe Which course God dyd not suffer to bée ended béefore the sounde of them had béene hearde all the world ouer as appeareth by the wordes of Saynt Paule Rom 10 Rom 10 When these had executed theyr office and were taken out of this lyfe it was not néedefull that other should bée sent from God to doo that worke which these men had alreadie finished and so it was altogeather vnnecessarie that there should bée an orderly succession of Apostles in the Church But when God shall sée cause hee may at hys pleasure stirre vp and sende foorth such messengers as hée shall make méete to doo hys message And such hée hath styrred vp sence the tyme of those fyrst Apostles and such hee dooth and wyll styr vp send foorth at his â—leasure and such may bée called Apostles of Christ béecause they be styrred vp by hys spirit and are sent of hym But this can not bée called a continuall and orderly succession Such Apostles our Church did not lacke in the time of the first 600 yéeres next after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ as by your owne histories it dooth most plainely appeare And euer since you fell from vs we haue had and haue styll as many as our good God knoweth to be needeful for vs as by the regesters kept in your consistories may bée séene for therein are written the horrible sentenses of excommunication that you haue pronounced against them because they would not worship the image of the Beaste nor take hys marcke in theyr handes nor forehead Our Sauiour Christ gaue vnto our Church Prophets also such as he made able to foretell of thinges to come as Agabus Ac. 11. Acts 11. the daughters of Phillip the Euangelist Act. 21 Act 21. S. Paule himselfe Act 20 1. Timoth 4 2 3. Act 20. 1. Timot. 4. 2 Timo 3. And Iohn that wrote the Reuelations with many moe Yea when hys pleasure is he can and dooth foreshewe vnto men things to come by the ministerie of such as it pleaseth him to foreshewe those thinges vnto Yea and he hath alwayes furnyshed and dooth styll furnish our Church with such Prophets as S Paule writeth of 1. Cor. 14. to whom hee giueth the gifte of interpretation so that they are able to make plaine the darke speaches that are some times vsed by the Prophets that speak of things to come 1 Cor 14 Of these Prophets our Church had many in the time of the first sixe hundreth yéeres that were next after the ascention of our Sauiour but not so many as since the time of your Apostacie which was in the dayes of Bonifacius the
orderly succession of Bishops the vniformitie of solemne Ceremonies and the vnitie of faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true cence and interpretation of Gods word that is beautified with diuersity of states commended by Christ as with Martirs with Confessors holy virgins and such other Let the Protestant prooue vnto me that this is not the true Church and that we are not bound to obey and beleeue this Church and none other in al controuersies doubts vprising eyther by the difficulty of Scripture or by vayne contention and pride of Heretickes and I wyll yeelde and recant and not before Crowley The Protestant hath already prooued that the Church whereof this Offerer is a member hath not béene of so long continuaunce as fiftéene hundreth yéeres Yea and that there be not yet a full thousand yéeres past since that Church became of such power and estimation in the world as now it dooth challendge to it selfe and as this Offerer dooth bragge of That Church which is Catholique in déede whereof all right Protestāts be members hath bad continuance euen euer since this promise was made in the daies of the first man I wyll put enimitie betwixt thée and the woman betwixt thy séede and her séede her séede shall breake thy heade and thou shalt assalt his héele Gen 3. These wordes dyd God him selfe speake to the sperpent and this promise dyd the first man and his wyfe beléeue and they and theyr faithfull posteritie dyd from time to time looke for and long after the performaunce of this promise euen tyll our Sauiour Christ which is that blessed séede of the woman had in déede performed it Our Sauiour Christ speaking of this looking for and longing after sayd thus to his disciples Many Prophets and Princes haue desired to sée those things that you sée and haue not séene them and to heare those wordes that you heare and haue not heard them Luc. 10. Lucae 10 And againe speaking to the Iewes he sayd Your father Abraham dyd aduaunce him selfe that he might sée my day and he dyd sée it and reioyce in it Iohn 8. Iohn 8. And this Catholique Church hath continued still in all troubles and persecutions and dooth continue to this day and so shall to the ende still reioysing in the day of Christ that is already past and looking and longing after that day of his that is yet to come which is the day of his appearing in glory when all his shall appeare with him in glorie Colo 3. Coloss 3 This Church hath had the vse of Sacraments euer since Sacraments were instituted But before Abrahams time there was not any Sacrament ordayned for the first Sacrament was Circumcision and the other Sacrament was the Passe-ouer which was instituted in the dayes of Moses By this it appeareth that the Church was before the sacramentes were and so it followeth by good consequence that Sacramentes are not necessarily required to the constituting of a Church Yea and after those Sairamentes were instituted the vse of them was by occasion intermitted and yet the Church that dyd intermit the vse of those Sacramentes was still the Church of God notwithstanding the intermitting of the vse of the Sacraments As in the time of the people of Isralites béeing in the wildernes which was fortie yéeres both Circumcission and the Passeouer were intermitted and yet that people were styll accounted to bée and were in déede the Church of God Euen so our Sauiour Christ haueing fulfilled the lawe did institute two Sacramentes in the place or stéede of those two that were before hys incarnation namely Baptisme and the Sacrament of his body and blood and left them to hys Church with commaundement that they should bee vsed in hys Church and therfore the Church of Christ may not refuse to vse them But yet if by iust occasion the Church shal be enforced to intermit the vse of them for as long or longer tyme then the Isralites dyd intermit the vse of theyr Sacramēts this may not be thought to be a iust cause to account that Church to be no Catholique Church which hath for a tyme intermitted the vse of Sacramentes But that Catholique Church whereof we Protestants be members hath not any at time intermitted the vse of these two Sacraments that Christ hath ordayned no not in the tyme of most bloody persecution as in most auncient Histories it dooth appeare And after the ende of those bloody persecutions which dyd continue almost to the ende of the first 300. yéeres after Christes ascention the same Church dyd continue the vse of the same Sacramentes publiquely and openly which before that time bloodie Tirrannie would not suffer them to doo But when the tyme of Apostacie was come and the man of sinne of whom S. Paule wrote 2 Thessa 2. 2 Thessa 2 had gotten the vpper hand then this Church was inforced to leaue that open vse that of Sacraments that it had continued for the space almost of 300. yéeres and to vse them as before shee had doone in the time of the first bloody persecutions For the Romane Church béeing fallen away from the Catholique Church became as bloodily minded as euer the Romane Empire had béene Thus the Catholique Church whereof wee bée members hath continued and dooth stil continue the vse of those Sacraments that Christ hath instituted As for confirmation order and that which you call penaunce matrimony and extreame vnction wée doo not acknowledge to bée Sacraments because they agrée not with the definition or discription of a Sacrament which is a visible signe of an inuisible spirituall grace instituted by Christ him selfe we knowe and doo confesse that confirmation is a good order and may bée vsed to the edification of the Church and therfore it is appointed by publique Authority that when younglinges shal be instructed so that they shal be able in some measure to make profession of the Christian fayth they shal bée brought to the Bishop that by prayer to God for them and laying on of his handes vpon them they may bée the better confirmed in that faith which they haue learned and professed The ordering of ministers we allowe of also as of a good profitable order in the Church for we know that no man may take vpon himselfe that honour but such as shal be called thereunto as Aron was And therefore as great care as may be is taken in the chosing of such as shal be admitted to the ministry and as great circumspection in the admitting Heb. 5. If any fault be in this behalfe it is not in the lawe that prescribeth a good and perfect order to be obserued herein but in the lacke of care that may be in such as haue the execution of the law As touching that which you cal penance wée doo neither accept of it as of a Sacrament because we knowe that it is none neyther doo we take
A Deliberat answere made to a rash offer which a popish Antichristian Catholique made to a learned protestant as he saieth and caused to be publyshed in printe Anno. Do. 1575. Wherein the Protestant hath plainly substantially prooued that the papists that doo nowe call themselues Catholiques are in déed Antichristian schismatiks and that the religious protestants are in deed the right Catholiques VVritten by Robert Crowley in the yeere 1587. LONDON Printed by I. Charlwood and are to bée sold at the signe of the black Beare in Paules Church yâ—rde 1588. Falts escaped in the print In the 7. leafe and in the last line of the first page in the first of the second page reade thus innocencie of life for not continue in ignorance c. In the 9. leafe and 15. line of the first page reade thus and not let vs haue peace And in the last line saue one of the second page reade thus they are all become vnprofitable In the 10. leafe and 14. line of the second page read thus traxerit In the 16. leafe and 6. line of the first page read tend for bend In the 25. leafe and 12. line of the second page read conuenticles In the 26. leafe and 18. line of the 1. page read fasts for feasts In the 27. leafe and 9. line of the 1. page read cases for causes In the 31. leafe and 12. line of the eight Offer read at all times the continuance c. In the 36. leafe 7. line of the 2. page read such for those In the 39. leafe last line saue 4. of the 1. page read Qui pridie In the 50. leafe and last line saue 6. of the 2. page read at any time In the 53. leafe and 29. line of the 1. page read which are not c. In the 55. leafe and 33. line of the 1. page read perceiue by that c. In the 72. leafe 12. line of the 1. page reade Linus In the 75. leafe and 1. line of the 1 page read or doth seeme to bee In the 77. leafe and 1. line of the 1. page this woorde them is to much In 78. leafe 4. line of the 2. page read admonition In the 80. leafe 22. line of the 1. page read they for then In the 81. leafe in the title of the 1. signe read of false prophets In the 84 and 20. line of the first page read some of them contrarie to the expresse c. ¶ To all and singular popish Recusants SVpposing that all such papists as do refuse to ioyne with vs in the profession and exercise of religion and are therefore called Recusants be of one the same minde with that popish Offerer that first wrote these Offers and did publish them in print I haue thought it a thing very meete to request the same Offerer if hee bee yet liuing and all the rest that bee of his minde to afforde mee so much fauour as to reade ouer their owne Offers and that answere that I haue made therunto I trust you will not deny mee this request for your Offerer hath in the end of euery part of his Offer vsed these words or the like prooue this then I will relent and recant not before I know that ther be many amongst you that are worshipfull wise and learned such I hope will not blemish their worship wisedome and learning by fore-iudging ought that is or shal be written in answere to any Offer that any of their minde hath or shall make and require answere thereunto I doo not require any of you to giue credit to that which I haue written before you haue tried the same and found it worthy of credit And therefore I haue set ouer the heads of the pages of this my booke this admonition First trie and then trust If you shall finde that I haue sufficiently prooued all those thinges that your Offerer requireth the protestant to prooue then I hope you wil redily performe those Offers that he hath made And if you shall finde any insufficiency in mine answeres I hope that some of the learned on your side will vse some meanes whereby I may haue knowledge of that insufficiency And in the word faith of a Christian I doo promise you that what soeuer any of you shal write touching this matter I will reade it deliberatly and without all parciall affection with earnest prayer to the almighty for the direction of his holy spirite whereby I may be stayed from straying out of the way of truth I know that there is but one way to euerlasting life I doo know that Christ only is that way if any of your sort therefore can make it plaine vnto me that your popish Catholique church dooth walke in that way then will I leaue that way wherein wee protestants doo walk and runne with you for I tell you truly that none of you can haue a greater or more earnest desire to enter with the Bridgrome Christ then I haue and as I hope shall haue to the end My pen would gladly proceede in paynting my paper with moe sentences to the like effect but I haue thought good to stay it for that I doo persuade my selfe that you doo think the time longe before you can take in hand to performe that request that I haue herein made Frare you well From my house at S. Gyles without Creplegate of London The Lord Iesus direct you in all that you shall doo Amen Ianuarie 16. An. 1587. Your well willer Robert Crovvley The deliberate aunswer that Robert Crowley a Protestant Christian hath made to that rash offer that a popish Antichristan Catholique made to a learned Protestant Imprinted in Dovvaie as he saith Anno Domini 1575. Crowley IN the yeere of our Lord. 1586. there came to my handes by what meane I doo not well knowe but by the prouidence of God I am sure a certaine booke that had béen imprinted and published in Doway in Fraunce in the yéere 1575. in the Englishe Tongue That booke is intituled A notable discourse plainely and truely discussing who are the right ministers of the Catholique Church written against Caluin and his disciples by one Maister Iohn de Albine called De Seres Archdeacon of Tolossa in Fraunce Wherunto are annexed certaine Offers made by a popish Catholique to a lerned ProtestaÌ„t c. This booke lay by me as a thing whereof I made small accompt tyll the moneth of May in the yéere .1587 When hauing by occasion more spare time then in long time before I had or could haue I tooke this booke in hand and did deliberately reade ouer both the booke and the offers I found both the booke and the offers to stuffed with coulour of pietie trueth and sinceritie that I coulde not but thinke that the hauing of this booke in secrete hath béene one great cause of the Apostacie of so many young men as haue in late yéeres fallen away from the pure profession of the
commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church c. Is altogither vnnecessarie for neuer did any of that sorte affirme that to bée true Wée doo all know that our Sauiour Christ did not call Emperours Kings Quéenes nor Princes to make them his messengers or Apostles but he called Fisher men and such other and made them able and méete to doo his message euen to Princes and Emperours and to all other the greatest personages in the world As saint Paule writeth 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Quae stulta sunt mundi elegâ— Deus vt confundat sapientes c. God hath chosen the foolish things of the world that hée might confounde the wise and God chose the weake things of the world to confounde the stronge and the base and dispised thinges of the world hath God chosen yea and those thinges that bée not that hée might destroy those thinges that bée Yea and wée doo know that God did not prepare the hearts of the Princes and chiefe men of the world to receiue the doctrine of the gospell with the first so that the Apostle Paule had occasion to write thus to the same Corinthians 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Videte vocationem vestram c. Brethren consider your calling for there are not amongst you many wise men after the flesh not many mighty not many of noble Parentage c. Yea in the daies wherein Saint Augustin cliued which was 400. yéeres after the ascention of our sauiour Christ it séemed a strange thing euen in the City of Rome that any man of any account in the world would become a Christian man For when Victorinus a famous Rhethorician in that City would professe the Religion of Christ and be baptized hée did it as Saint Augustine hath written Confessionum lib. 8. cap. 2. Mirante Roma gauâ—â—nte Ecclesia August lib 8 Cap 2 Rome meruelling and the Church of Christ in Rome reioyceing There is therefore no cause why you shoulde require the learned Protestant to prooue by plain Scriptures that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church to Emperors c. But this the Protestants doo hold and are able to prooue by plaine places of the Scriptures that Emperors Kings Quéenes Princes Dukes and all other Potentates are the supreme gouernours of those peoples ouer whom God hath placed them whether the same people bée by profession Christians or Miscreants Yea and that the chiefe charge that euery of these Potentates haue from God is that they shall in their owne persons walke in the Lordes wayes and leade their people in the same And for that cause they are in the Scriptures called Pastores that is Shéepeheards as in the 44. Cha. of his Prophecies Esay 44 Esaie speaking in the person of God saith Qui dico Cyro Pastor meus 〈◊〉 omnem voluntatem meam complebis That is Which doo say vnto Cyrus thou arte my Shéepeheard and thou shalt fulfill all my will Cyrus was an Heathen prince and yet the Lord calleth him his Shéepeheard and commaundeth him to fulfill all his will and pleasure King Dauid being a Shéepheard in déede was taken from the Shéepefold and made king ouer all Israell that hée might féede that people of the Lord euen as a Shéepeheard féedeth his flocke And hée did rule them prudently with all his possible powre Psal 78. Psalm 78 And that these Potentates might bée able to discharge that duety that the Lord God hath appointed them to doo hée hath giuen vnto them the powre of the Sword as in the 13. Rom 13. Chapter to the Romaines it appeareth Principes saith Saint Paule non sunt timori boni operis sed mali c. Princes are not to bée feared of them that doo well but of them that doo euill Wilt thou bée without feare of the Potentate Doo well and thou shalt bée praised of him For hée is Gods minister to doo the good But if thou doo euill then feare him for hée beareth not a Sword for nought Hée is Gods minister to take vengeance on him that dooth euill c. At that time wherein the Apostle wrote those woordes to the Romaines there was not one Christian Prince as it may bée thought in all the world And yet hée dooth certifie the Romaines that euen those heathen Princes were ordained of GOD for the benefit of Christians as of all other sortes of men that world bend them selues to walke in hys wayes and not contynue in ignoraunce of lyfe And for the punishment of all such as should giue them selues to leade a dissolute life Yea and it belonged to the office euen of those Princes not onely to vse the powre of the Sword in defending Innocents and in punishing wicked doers but also to set foorth aduaunce and maintaine right and true Religion as in the holy Histories it dooth appeare that they did as often as by any occasion their hearts were touched with the feare of GOD As Darius the Persian Emperour when hee had séene the mighty powre of GOD in preseruing Daniell in the Lyons den did hee not write immediately to all his subiects commaunding them to feare to stand in awe of Daniels God confessing him to be the lyuing and euerlasting God that his kingdome powre is euerlasting and that it is hée that deliuereth and saueth worketh woonders both in Heauen in Earth Daniel 6. Daniel 6. The same Darius as it appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the first booke of Esdras coÌ„maunded that the Temple in Hierusalem which had bin destroyed by the Babylonians should bée reedified as king Cyrus had commaunded and that it should bée furnished with all things necessary and meete for the seruice of God 1. Esdras 1. 6. 1. Esd 1. 6 And amongst the good kings of Israell and Iuda Dauid not without a secret motion from God I am sure did cause the Arke of Gods couenant to bée brought to Hierusalem and placed in a Tabernacle which hée had prepared for it there yea and in his owne person hée vsed all such behauiour as might tend to the setting foorth of the glorie of God and abase him selfe in the sight of God and at his owne charges hée caused much sacrifice to bée offered to the Lord and afterward hée blessed the people of the Lord and gaue rewards of meate drinke to euery one of them as well the women as the men As appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the second booke of Samuell which you call the second of the kings 2. Reg. 6 And I pray you good M. Offerer who was hée whom God appointed to build his Temple in Hierusalem was it not Salomon the king And did not hée builde it in déed and furnish it according as the Lord had coÌ„maunded him Tertij Reg. 5. c. And who reformed Religion destroied the Idols that king Achas had caused to bee set vp in the Temple was it
third about the ende of that 600. yéeres They that were in the tyme of the first 600 yéeres were persecuted by the dragan that is by the estate of Roome vnder the tirrannous Emperours And they that haue béene since and are now haue béene and styll are persecuted by the beast that hath two hornes lyke a Lambe that is the estate of Roome vnder the Papacie Apoc. 13. Apoc 13 These Prophets of booth sortes haue béene and are still styrred vp by him that is the giuer of all good giftes at hys pleâ—sure to worke his wyll in such tymes as he hath fore appoynted But there hath not béene at any time any continuall and orderly succession of them such as you require the Protestants to prooue neither dooth it help any thing at all for the proofe of true and right Religion to haue any such continuall and orderly succession except all the successors doo hold the same Religion and doo walke in the same steps that their first Predecessor held and walked in Amongst your Popes very few or none can bée founde that haue held the religion of Peter walked in his steps Your Boniface the third which was the first of your Apostatat Popes shewed him selfe to bée of a far other minde then Peter was otherwise hee would neuer haue sought for and with great contention haue obtained that name of vniuersall Bishop which Gregorie the first refused as a prophane name and a signe of the fore runner of Antichrist This would haue bin a lusty lad if hee might haue continued in the estate of a Pope many yéeres but hée was cut of by death in the ninth moneth after hee was made Pope The rest that haue succeeded euen vntill this day haue in one point walked in the steps of this Bonifacius for they all haue taken vpon them and kept the title of vniuersall Bishop and so dooth hee that dooth now enioy that place And so by good consequence it may bee said that they are all Antichristian But to returne to our purpose That church whereof the Protestants bee members hath had Apostles as longe time as th' office of an Apostle was necessary for hir In like maner shee hath had Prophets of both sortes Euangelists also shee hath had and hath still whose office is to water that which the Apostles haue planted Of this sorte was Timoth. and so was Apollos and others that were when they were and in the first 600. yeeres after Christs ascention And such bee they in these dayes which are able to instruct and doo labour to instruct Christians how to leade a christian life and to bee assured of Saluation onely by the mediation of Christ Iesus that promised Seede through whom all the nations of the world are promised to be happy and blessed Pastors and doctors also our Church hath alwaies had and now hath The Popes catholiques neuer had the like These are they that God hath made able to breake the breade of life to the flocke of Christ and to teach instruct them in all necessary knowledge to saluation And these as the others are made able stirred vp to worke in the Lords Haruest by him that as oft as néede is sendeth forth laborers into his Haruest Hée is not bound to maintaine a coÌ„tinuall orderly succession but when it pleaseth him to punish the vnthankfulnes of his people by taking from them such as hee hath made méete and able to execute these offices amongst them hee may and in iustice hée dooth That so his people may learne to vse such good gifts better when they shall againe enioy them And as for that popish-Catholique church which your sort doo call the knowne Catholique church neuer had such Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Doctors as S. Paule ment of in his writing to the Ephes For that Church was not hatched before the dayes of Boniface the third And therefore that church neither had nor could haue any such Apostles Prophets or Euangelists as our church had in the six hundreth yeeres next after the ascention of our sauiour I conclude therefore that neither our Church which is the right Catholique church nor yours which is the right Antichristian church hath had any such continuall and orderly succession as you require the Protestant to prooue by the Ecclesiasticall hystories I see no cause therefore why you should not recant and relent although you haue hitherto refused so to doo The ninth Offer Offerer Ninth Where as the Protestants by the drift of reason and Argument are forced of the Catholiques to acknowledge and confesse their Church and Congregations to haue lien hidden vnknowne for the space of one whole thousand yeeres togither without all the foresaid functions and ministrations of Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Doctors of their gospell faith and religion at the least wise to be openly perceiued knowne if therefore they shall be able for the space of that whole time to prooue by auncient writers of Ecclesiasticall hystories any other word gospell or doctrine to be vniuersally openly taught any other sacraments to be ministred any other discipline or correction to be practised any other iudgements decrees Canons or lawes to be executed then those which were daily practised in the common knowen Catholique Church of Christ I will then recant and not before Crowley This Offerer would beare vs in hand that wée Protestants are by the drift of reason and argument enforced to confesse c. Hée dooth vs great wrong in that hée auoutcheth that wée confesse that for the space of a thousand yéeres togither wée had no maner function or ministration c. As though wée should confesse that wée had no gospel no faith no religion And yet his owne conscience driueth him to say thus At the least wise to be openly perceiued known Well then his owne conscience telleth him that wée had those ministrations and that it was knowne that wée had them but not openly It appéereth that this man vnderstandeth nothing of the mysterie of that woman that the Apostle Iohn saw in his vision Apoc. 12. Apoc. 12. If these Antichristian Catholiques could content them selues to bée taught by such as God hath stirred vp made able to open the meaning of this mystery they should sée that the right Catholique church of Christ hath bin in Wildernesse euer since the Male childe that shee brought foorth was taken vp into heauen Yea although shee bee clad with the sunne and hath the Moone vnder hir feete yet doo not these men so sée hir that they may discerne hir from the congregations of the heathen bicause their sight is such as the sight of Howlets and such other night fowles that cannot endure the brightnes of the sunne Immediately after our sauiour Christ was ascended into heauen the Dragon that olde serpent the deuill Satan being vanquished by Michael and his Angels expelled out of heauen and cast downe to the earth did persecute the
Christ which was 70. yéeres after as it is supposed that Peter was made bishop of Rome So that the church vsed none of those things that were diuised by him for the space of those 70. yéeres of the first 300. yeeres After this Alexander Sixtus 1. was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 121. after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ if the hystories bee true and the fourescore yeere after the supposed entring of Peter into the Byshopricke of Rome This man diuised sundrie things as Sanctus sanctus sanctus to bée songe in the celebration of the Lords supper But heere I must note how vnlikely this is to bée true for as saint Augustine hath written in the 7. August li. 9. Conf. Ca. 7. Chapter of the 9. booke of his confessions the custome of singing in churches was not begun in the Latine church before the dayes of Ambros who liued about the yeere of our Lord 380. And more ouer it can not bee prooued by any hystories that the Christians had any liberty to builde any church in the citie Rome before the time of Constantine the Emperoure who builded at his owne charges the first churches that the Christians had in Rome But let it bée as Platina hath written in the life of Sixtus the first Hée commanded that Sanctus sanctus sanctus that is holy holy holy should bee songe in the celebration that is in the ministration of the cōmunion But I pray you marke what Platina saith further Nuda primo haec erant c. At the first those things were bare and naked and all thinges were handled simply For when Peter did consecrate hée vsed the prayer Our father Iames the bishop of Hierusalem encreased or enriched these mysteries and so did Basill and other For Celestinus gaue the Introite of the Masse Gregorie the Kyrie eleison Telesphorus the Gloria in excelsis Deo Gelasius the first gaue the Collations and Hierome the Epistle and the Gospell Haleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem The Credo from the counsell of Néece Pelagius inuented the cōmemoration of the deade Leo the third inuented the Incense Innocent the first inuented the kissing of the Paxe And Sergius ordained that Agnus Dei should bée songe But séeing that in the daies of Sixtus fewe were founde by reason of the often murders or slaughters of Christians that durst professe the name of Christ and the Christians in France did desire to haue a bishop Sixtus did send vnto them one Peregrinus a citizen of Rome c. Thus far Platina By these woords of Platina it appeareth that during the first 80. yeeres after saint Peters supposed entring into the bishopricke of Rome there was no more vsed in the ministration of the Lords supper but the Lords prayer which beginneth thus Our father which arte in heauen c. Celestinus that gaue the Introite of the Masse was not bishop in Rome before the ende of 420. yeeres after Christ so that for the space of 420. yéeres your Masse had no Introite That Gregorie that appointed the Kyrie eleison was made bishop of Rome in the yéere 590. after Christ so that your Masse lacked that parte for the space of 600. yeeres almost Telesphorus added the Gloria in excelsis about 130. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse did lack that parte so longe time Gelasius the first that diuised the Collations was bishop of Rome about 490. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse lacked hir Collations almost 500. yéeres Hieronimus that added the Epistle and Gospell was neuer bishop either in Rome or else where Hee liued in Bethlehem about 380. yéeres after Christ so that your Masse had no Epistle or Gospell for 380. yeeres after Christ And your Halleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem by Gregorie the first who was bishop of Rome about the yéere of our Lord 590. The Nicene Créede could not be vsed before that councell wherein it was agréed vpon which was 330. yeeres after Christ And Pelagius that inuented the remembrance of the deade was made bishop of Rome in the yeere of our Lord 556. so that for the space of so many yeeres after Christ there was no remembrance of the deade in your Masse Leo the third that inuented the burning of Incense was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 796. after Christ so that for the space of so many yeeres there was no burning of Incense in churches Innocent the first was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 406. hée inuented the kissing of the Paxe at Masse so longe therefore was your Masse without that ceremonie And Sergius that appointed the singing of Agnus Dei was made bishop of Rome in the yeere after Christ 694. or there about so that your Masse lacked hir Agnus Dei for the space almost of 700. yeeres after Christ Now M. Offerer consider with your selfe I pray you whether the learned Protestant may not as easily prooue the antiquitie of his communion booke euen from the Apostles time as you may prooue your Authenticall seruice and ministration of sacraments now daily openly practized If you would with indifferent iudgment weigh al that I haue here written I doo not doubt but you would cōfesse that during the first 90. yéeres after Christs ascention there was no prescribed order set downe in any booke for publike seruice or ministration of sacramēts other then that which is contained in the scriptures Wherefore there is none so great a cause of misliking in oure common booke as that there be so many of your latter inuētions allowed of in it And surely if our princes people would yéelde to a perfect reformation wee might make our communion booke a great deale lesse then it is by blotting out of it all that hath bin inuented by your bishops of Rome Thus I doo thinke I haue said enough to cause you to recant although you would not before The twelfth Offer Offerer I demaund of the learned Protestant to know cause and reason why their congregations doo admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other officers spirituall ordered by our Catholike church as men lawfull and sufficient to preach the word of God to minister the Sacramēts to exercise all spirituall iurisdiction in no lesse wise but rather more then if they had bin ordred in their owne congregations whereas the Catholike church of Christ dooth not acknowledge any man of their ordering and calling to be any whit the more fit for any spirituall function in Christ his church then other cōmon lay men When therefore the learned Protestant shal be able to shew good cause and reason why our Catholike church hauing by their owne consent and approouing lawfull priestes bishops and spirituall ministers not to be also the lawfull true and Catholike church of Christ I will then recant and not before Crowley This Offer is altogither friuolous and foolish For what reason was it that mooued this vnreasonable Offerer to require the learned
Protestant to shew cause and reason why our congregations doo those things that neuer any of our congregations did Can this Offerer prooue that euer any congregation of Protestants did admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other spirituall officers c. Wée doo in déede receiue the men that haue bin bishops Priests and deacons c. And finding them meete to serue either in the places that they serued in before or in any other wée doo employ them in seruice in those places that we finde them méete for And thus we doo not bicause they haue bin ordered after your Antichristian maner but bicause wee sée in them manifest signes of repētance that euer they yéelded to be made ministers of Antichristian religion do desire to be admitted to serue God in the ministration of the true right religion of Christ As for your shauing your clipping annoynting that you doo vse in the ordring consecrating of your bishops priests deacons we estéeme as lightly of it as you either doo or can estéeme of our maner of ordering and consecrating of ministers of all sortes Wée know that no ceremonies that are or can be vsed in this behalfe either by you or by vs doo or can giue any ability to the persons towards whom those ceremonies are vsed in the admitting of them but we doo vse them as meanes to put those persons in remembrance of those duties that doo belonge to them in the office calling whereunto they are called admitted We doo not thinke that you doo or can by your ceremonies imprimere characterē indelebilem that is imprint into such as you doo order a marke that can not be blotted out so that your priestes being once made priestes must continue so for euer Neither doo we thinke it necessary to degrad your priests when they returne vnto vs from your Antichristian religion as you vse to doo before you deliuer them to the seculer power when you haue cōdemned them for heresie For we know that the marke of the beast which they receiued at your hands is blotted out by their hearty and vnfained repentance the signes wherof we sée in them before we doo admit them to serue in any calling amongst vs either Ecclesiasticall or Ciuill You might much better haue charged vs with consenting vnto and allowing of the lawfulnes of your priests bishops bicause we be not rebaptised but then perhaps you think we would charge you with the like consent and approouing of the lawfulnes of our ministery for that you doo not rebaptise such as haue bin baptised by vs. But to be short I conclude thus Though we doo receiue such as doo come from you as S. Paule was receiued comming from the Phariseis doo admit them to such offices amongst vs as wee finde them méete for as S. Paule was admitted to the office of preaching ministration of sacraments yet we doo not thereby consent vnto or allow of the lawfulnes of your Antichristian ministers more then the church that receiued S. Paule cōming from the Phariseis did thereby consent vnto or allow of the sect of the Phariseis If this be a cause reason sufficient as I think it is why the Protestants should neither take your Antichristian ministers to be méete ministers of Christes religion so longe as they remaine amongst you nor refuse them when they shall repent bring forth fruits worthy méete for repentance and yet notwithstanding account take your church for Antichristian then I require you M. Offerer to fulfill your promise and recant although you haue hitherto refused so to doo The Thriteenth offer Offerer Thirteenth I require of the learned Protestant to expresse what furniture furdrance or cōmoditie to the honor serurce of God did christianity or any part of Christendome receiue by his church or congregations what temple or church did you build at any time for your assēbles and seruice of God what bishopricks for the better gouernment of the church did you founde or procure what vniuersities schooles or colledges did you at any time erect for the maintenance of christian doctrine faith and religion when the learned Protestant shal be able to prooue by ecclesiasticall histories and old auncient writers these things to be monuments of their conuenticles and priuate congregations of their faith and religion and not of the common knowne faith religion and Catholique church of Christ then I shall in like maner yeelde and recant and not before Crowley If this Offerer had liued in the dayes of the prophets or of the Apostles hée would haue kept a iolly stur with them for none of them were builders of Temples Synagogues or Churches neither were they Founders of vniuersities schooles or colledges And yet was their faith and religion fruitfull so is ours though none such fruits as this Offerer speaketh of should spring thereout And yet I doo know that these are good works I hope I shal be able to prooue that the Protestants Catholique church hath not bin neither is slack in dooing these works when hability and oportunity may serue them If I might be so bolde with M. Offerer I would demaund of him require him to expresse who it was that builded S. Peters church in Rome and the rest of the most auncient churches in that citie I think he would answere with spéede say thus it was Constantine the first christened Emperor If hée shall so say he shal say truly for so hath Platina and other more auncient Hystorians written But here is the question whether this Constantine were a Protestant Catholike or such a Catholike as this Offerer is For we hold that hee was a protestant Catholike and this Offerer holdeth the contrary The matter then resteth vpon proofe I doo thinke that I haue already prooued sufficiently that Constantine liuing raigning in the end of the first 300. yéeres after Christ could not be an Antichristian catholike as this Offerer is bicause the great Antichrist was not as yet spronge vp although many Antichrists or false Prophets were in the world euen when the Apostle Iohn worte his first Epistle as in the 4. Chap. thereof it appeareth but that great Antichrist that S. Paule nameth the man of sin 2. Thes 2. did not begin to shew himselfe in the world before the daies of Bonifacius the third that tooke vpon himselfe the name estate of the vniuersall head of Christs vniuersall church And that was the time wherein your Schismaticall church fell away from that true Catholike church whereof Constantine was and wée that beare the name of Protestants now bée The bishopricks also that were appointed or founded at any time within the first 600. yéeres after Christ all the Vniuersities Schooles Colledges that were foūded with in that time were founded builded by protestant Catholiques For although many corruptions were spronge vp in the Catholike church whereof wée be before the end of the first 600.
shew great signes wōders in so much that if it were possible that very elect shold be brought into error But behold saith our sauiour I haue told you before hand c. The moe miracles you doo brag of the greater cause we haue to suspect you for these are not the daies wherin credit is to be giuen to miracles but wherin workers of wonders are to be had in suspition Your Church hath you say remission of sins In déed the true catholique church of Christ hath so but not according to your meaning as I think The true catholique church whereof we are members hath remission of sins in Christ and by his mediation And therfore in the confession of our faith we say we beléeue the remission of sins But as I think your meaning is that your church hath power to forgiue sins And hereupon you ground your ingendulces pardons for many yéeres many Lentes and in diuers considerations plenary forgiuenes A paena a culpa Both from the payne that the faulte hath deserued and from the fault it selfe also This remission of Sinnes your Pope bestoweth at hys pleasure but neuer for naught But whether he doo giue or sell this remission of sinnes he dooth in taking vpon himselfe to forgiue sinnes shewe him selfe to bée that man of sinne that S. Paule wrote of the 2. Thessal 2. 2 Thessa 2 Who sitting in the temple of God boasteth hymselfe to bée God For who can forgiue sinnes but God onelie Marci 2. Marci 2 Wée doo know and confesse that our sauiour Christ hath giuen powre to his church both to remit and to retaine sinnes and that powre dooth our Catholike church exercise by certifying the penitent sinners by the scriptures that their sinnes vnfainedly repented be vndoubtedly pardoned through Christ in whom they must belieue assuredly that shal be capable of this remission of sinnes But our Catholike church dooth not make sale of this remission of sinnes as your popish Catholike Church dooth And our Catholike church hath powre to retaine the sinnes of such sinners as shée findeth obstinate and impenitent by certifying them by the scriptures that except they shall repent vnfaynedly and belieue the gospell that is the glad tydings of frée pardon of all their sinnes in and by Christ their sinnes shall neuer bee forgiuen The scriptures are the keyes that Christ gaue vnto Peter and in him to his whole church as S. Augustine hath written in his fiftith treatise vpon Ioh. Si hoc ergo in Ecclesia fit August in Io. tract 50. Petrus quando claues accepit Ecclesiam sanctam significauit If this thing be done in the church then when Peter did receiue the keyes hee did signifie the holy Church So that the power of loosing and binding belonged not to Peter alone but to him togither with the rest of the Apostles wherefore the same powre dooth not now belonge to any one person alone in the Church but to the whole Church togither You say further that your church hath the true sense interpretation of the woorde of God so that no sense or interpretation of Gods woorde may bee taken for true but that which is set down by your church although that which is set downe by your church shal be prooued to bee directly contrarie to the text of Gods woord it selfe In your generall counseil holden at Trident in the yéere 1563. and in the tewenty fifth Session thereof your church hath anathematized as many as shall hold or teach that the Images of Christ of the virgine his mother and of other saintes be not very profitable for Christians and that they are not to bee worshipped Their decrée concerning this matter beginneth thus Jmagines porro Chrsti c. That is The holy Synode dooth commaunde that the Images of Christ and of the virgin the mother of God and of other saints to be had and retained especially in churches that due honor and worship bée giuen vnto them This is the sense and interpretation that your Catholike church hath set downe in that decrée concerning the meaning of these sentences written in the woord of God Cursed is that man or woman that shall make a carued or molten Image that the Lord abhorreth the worke of the hands of Craftesmen and shall set it in a secret place Deut. 27. Deut. 27. Againe in Esay Cap. 44. Quis formauit Deum c. Who hath fashioned a God and hath made a carued Image Esay 44. Exod. 20. that is good for nothing And againe Exod. 20. Non facies tibi scuptile c. Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image nor the likenes of any thing that is in heauen aboue or in the earth beneath nor in the water vnder the earth Thou shalt not worship nor serue them c. Yea and S. Paule in his second Epistle to the Corinthes 2. Cor. 6. 2. Cor. 6. What agreement is there betwixt the temple of God and Images directly contrary to the sentences of scripture your holy mother the Catholike church as you doo terme hir but in very déede the church of Antichrist hath in that generall counsell decréed that the Images of Christ of the Virgin the mother of God and of other saintes must be had and retayned especially in churches and that their due honour and reuerence must bée giuen vnto them Much more might bee noted out of your generall counselles where by it might bee made most manifest plaine that there was neuer any sorte of Heretikes that swarued further from the true sense and interpretation of the word of God euen in the chiefest points of religion then that Synagogue of Satan your Antichristian Catholike church hath doone for the space of these 1000. yéeres now last past almost and dooth still But your church is beautified with diuersity of states commended by Christ as with Martyrs with Confessors holy Virgins and such other If a man should require you to shew your Martyrologie and to shew the causes wherefore these Martyrs of yours suffered it would bee hard for you to make proofe that any one of those that you doo account for Martyrs did suffer for any other then for Antichrist If you shall begin with Thomas Becket the best that you can say for him is that hée died for the liberties of the Church And what were those liberties That all clergie men should be exempted from the powre of their princes So that if a clergie man should cōmit any maner of felonie murther or Treason or any other capitall crime none of the princes officers might deale with him to execute the penalty of the lawe vpon him as vpon a felon murderer or Traytor but he must be punished by this Ordinarie c. And what was this other then to dye for Antichrist who contrary to Christs doctrine vsurpeth authoritie ouer princes and wil not suffer any of his to be in subiection to princes and to princes lawes To bee briefe
Bishop Fyshar Sir Thomas Moore the Monkes of the charter house with all the rest of the Popes friends that suffered in the daies of King Henry the eight and Edmond Campion with his companie and the rest that haue bene executed in the time of the raigne of our Soueraigne that now is for what cause haue they suffered was it not for that they affirmed that the Popes holines hath the supreme power in this realme that princes haue not the highest power vpon earth ouer such as be their subiectes This cause can not bee Christs cause for Christ did in his humaine nature submit him selfe to the Emperor in that hee him selfe did pay tribute to the Emperor in token of subiection Mat. 17. Mat 17. S. Peter willeth all christians to submit them selues to all estates of men euen for the Lords sake whether it be to the king as to him that hath the preheminence or to the Dukes or captaines as to men whom the Lord hath sent for the punishment of euill dooers but for the praise of such as bée good for so is the will of God that Christians should by well dooing stop the ignoraunce of foolish men c. 1. Pet. 2. 1 Peter 2. S. Paule also wrote thus to the Romaines Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit c. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers c. Rom. 13. Rom. 13. Chrysostome expounding these woords of S. Paule saith thus Etiam si Apostolus sis si Euangelista si Propheta siue quisquis tandem fueris c. Although thou be an Apostle if thou bée an Euangelist if thou be a Prophet and to conclude who or what so euer thou béest For saith Chrysostome this subiection dooth not subuert godlinesse And hée saith not simply hée must obay but hée saith Chrysost in Rom. 13. subdita sit It must bée in subiection By these woords of Chrysostome it appeereth what maner of Martyrs they are that haue died for the mainetenaunce of your Popes supreme powre ouer all Christians vpon earth If Chrysostome were now liuing and would maintaine this that hee hath written your Pope would make him a Martyr in déed if hée might catch him as hee hath and still dooth make Martyrs of all such as hée hath and can catch that bee of one minde with Chrysostome Your Confessors are euen such as your Martyrs and so are your Virgins with the rest that you meane of when you say and such other Now let the Protestant prooue say you that this is not the true Church that we are not bound to obay and belieue this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts c. The Protestant hath already prooued that the church that you meane of which is the Romaine Antichristian church is not the true Church of Christ and that it hath not in it those things that you doo so much brag of It hath not continuance as yet for the space of 1000. yéeres It hath not neither dooth it exercise preaching to the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the gospell but to the obedience of Antichristian doctrine It hath not had neither hath it the right administration of the sacraments but with such mixture of humaine diuises as is vnséemely in the Church of Christ It hath not had neither hath it any such orderly succession of bishops as you brag of neither any such vniformitie of solemne Ceremonies It hath not had at any time neither hath it now such vnitie of faith as you speake of nor the holy functions of the spirite as working of Miracles remission of sinnes nor the true sense and interpretation of the woord of God Neither is it beautified with that diuersitie of states that you speake of as Martyrs Confessors and Virgins such other wherefore the Protestant concludeth that there is no cause why he should obay and belieue that church of yours no more is there that you should not yeelde and recant The Twentith offer Offerer Twentith Moreouer let the learned Protestant proue that the true and Catholike church of Christ may at any time bee voide of Gods spirit which he hath promised to be with his Church for euer saying Et ego rogabo patrem et alium paracletum dabit vobis Iohn 14. vt maneat vobiscum in aeternū or falsly to interpret any sentence of holy scripture or to induce any erroure among the people or approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amonge the Christians or that shee suffereth any damnable abuse in her religion without open repredhension thereof Let the learned Protestant prooue any of these points and I will then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley The true Catholique church of Christ in déed is neuer voyde of Gods spirite Yea there is not one member of that church which hath not that spirite dwelling in it in some measure For thus the Apostle Paule hath written to the Romaines Si quis autem spiritum Christi non habet hie non est eius If there be any that hath not the spirite of Christ the same belongeth not to him Rom. 8. Rom. 8 I doo confesse therefore that the true Catholique church of Christ is neuer voide of Gods spirit But according to the words that this Offerer hath cited out of the 14. cha of Iohn Iohn 14 our sauiour Christ hath sent another comforter which is the holy spirit of God to be with his Church for euer But what maketh this for M. Offerers purpose Hee must prooue that the church of Rome being such as now it is hath bin for the space of a thousand yéeres almost is that true Catholique church of Christ and then these pointes will serue him to some purpose otherwise they doo make flatly against him Taking your church to bee the true Catholike church of Christ you offer to yéelde and recant if the Protestant can prooue that your church hath fasly interpreted any one sentence of the holy scripture The Protestant hath alreain his answere to your 19. offer sufficiently prooued that your whole church hath in the 25. session of your Tridentine counsell falsly interpreted or rather flatly denied mo then one two or thrée sentences of the holy scriptures as to the indifferent Reader it may there most euidently apeere wherefore wée doo looke for the performance of your promise in yéelding and recanting That your church hath induced doth still induce errors amongst the people hath approued and doth still approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amongst Christians hath suffered and dooth still suffer damnable abuses in religion without open reprehention is more manifest then that which lyeth open in the cleare sunne light Wherefore the Protestant néedeth not to spend any time in the proofe therof It may suffice to put the reader in minde of those shamelesse errors that your church hath taught dooth still teach and maintaine concerning the inuocation of Angelles and Saints the praying for the deade
yéeres and more But to let this Offerer and his fellowes see wherein they be disceiued I will adde some thing to the which I haue written there making it manifest that this Offerer and his fellowes did depart from vs and from our Church before wée did depart from them and their church They departed from vs and our Church without cause but we did departe from their Church for iust cause When S. Iohn wrote these woords Ex nobis prodierunt c. 1. Ioh. 2. They went out from vs but they were not of vs c the church of Rome was Catholique Christian Holy and Apostolike They therefore that did then depart from them were Antichristian and Schismaticall and were not of them whilse they were amongst them and therefore they did not tarie with them And you and men of your sorte are they that in the daies of Phocas the Emperor did openly departe from our Catholique church became a schismaticall Antichristian church or rather Synagogue of Satan persecuting the true Catholique church of Christ continually from that day to this Wée therefore being amongst you till it pleased God to open the eyes of our vnderstanding so that wée might see the abhominations of your Antichristian religion were not of you and therefore wee did departe from you not leauing our Faith and Religion wherein wée were baptized for wée were baptized in the name of Christ and not of Antichrist For though God haue suffered you to diuise many toyes which you doo vse in the ministration of baptisme yet hee would neuer suffer you to alter the institution of that Sacrament for you doo still baptise in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost And therefore wee seeke not to bee rebaptized knowing that the baptisme which wee receiued at your hands is as effectuall as that which wée our selues doo minister to our Infants Wee are not therefore departed from the true Catholique church of Christ but from your Antichristian church and wee are returned againe to that true Catholique church from which your sorte departed when Boniface the third tooke vpon him that Antichristian name of vniuersall bishop And vs that were borne amongest you yee haue kept from our deere mother and haue enforced vs to taste of the poysoned mylke of the dugs of that purple clothed Whore your Damme of Rome But our louing Father hath in his good time by his good meanes brought vs out from amongst you and restored vs againe to our good mother his deerely beloued spouse the true Catholique Holy and Apostolike church out of whose plentifull Dugs wee doo daily sucke the swéete pleasant healthsome mylke that feedeth vs vnto euerlasting lyfe This mother that wee are returned to is that romish Catholique church that was in the dayes wherein Saint Iohn wrote those woordes that you take holde of From hir did you departe bicause you were not hir naturall chyldren but Bastards borne in hir house but not of hir housholde and therefore like a Bastardly broode you went out of hir house and became most bloodie persecutors of hir children and so you haue continued for the space now of a thousand yeeres almost yea and so you doo continue still By the mercifull goodnes of our Father working in vs by his holy spirite wée doo now belieue as the children of our mother then in Rome did belieue They belieued then that there is but one God the hath made all creatures and him they glorified in the vse of his creatures and they gaue thanks to him alone for those creatures and studied to serue him onely in spirite and with spirituall seruice flying from th' example of the Heathen nations that presumed to counterfaite his maiestie by Images Ro. 1. Rom. 1. and so doo wée They belieued and confessed that all men are sinners that no man can iustifie him selfe before God bicause no man can so kéepe the law of God but that his owne conscience shall condemne him as a transgressor therefore they did cleaue to the mercie of God and so doo wée They belieued that they were iustified that is discharged of their sinnes fréely by faith without the déedes of the law and yet they thought themselues bound to doo all that God had and should make them able to doo in obseruing fulfilling of the law and so doo wée Rom. 2.3.4.5.6.7 Rom. 2.3.4.5.6.7 They belieued that God making choise of them had in mercie made them his owne children by adoption inheritors of his kingdome heires annexed with his onely begotten sonne Christ Iesus and hereof they were assured by the spirite of Christ which was giuen vnto them cried in their hearts Abba-pater Father Father so doo wée Ro. 8. Rom 8. They belieued that this election choise was made in the fore knowledge and purpose of God before they themselues were and so consequently before they either had or could doo good or euill and so doo wée Rom. 9. Rom. 9. They belieued that as they were by the free mercie of God Adopted Predestinated called iustified and acquited of their sinnes and in Gods predestination glorified and made like to the Image of his onely begotten sonne Christ Iesus Rom. 8. Rom 8. so their dutie was to bée carefull to leade a righteous life before men and not to bee bolde to commit sinne bicause God had in mercie discharged them of sinne but to liue in a reuerend awe and feare of his iustice as they that would shew them selues continually thankfull for his mercie in making their owne bodies a Sacrifice to God liuing holy and acceptable to God as their reasonable seruing of God Rom. 10.11.12 Rom. 10.11.12 and euen so doo wée They belieued that their duetie was to submit them selues to all such as God had set ouer them in authoritie to obay them not only for feare of punishment but for conscience sake also knowing that who soeuer resisteth the powre resisteth the ordinaunce of God dooth purchase to him selfe damnation And they belieued that their duetie was to giue euerie man his owne and to vse louing behauiour towards all men knowing that loue is the fulfilling of the law And that being baptized they had apparelled them selues with Christ and that they ought to walke and continue their liues in holinesse and in honestie not making prouision for the flesh to satisfie the lusts thereof Rom. 13. Rom. 13. and euen so doo wée They belieued that although God had giuen them libertie in the vse of all his creatures yet their duetie was to haue a continuall regarde to the infirmitie of their bretheren and not to vse any of those creatures to the offence of any of them Rom. 14.15 Rom. 14.15 and euen so doo wée They belieued that they togither with all other Christians els where in any parte of the worlde were fellowe members of one bodie in Christ and vnder Christ alone acknowledging no vniuersall head of