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A30942 The disputation at Winchcomb November 9, 1653 together with the letters and testimonies pertinent thereto : wherein is offered some satisfaction in serveral points of religion. Barksdale, Clement, 1609-1687. 1654 (1654) Wing B794; ESTC R23641 73,761 196

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went into France and being at Geneva he saw the Sabbath much prophaned and the wafer-cake given in the Sacrament instead of bread whereupon he began to think better of the Church of England and returning home he became Pastor of a Church in Northhampton-shire called Achurch The Church of Rome was a true Church the Reformed Churches separated from it becoming a false Church Though Ministers were ordained in the most corrupt estate of the Church of Rome yet if they forsake the corruptions of the Church of Rome they are true Ministers as the Church of Rome it self if it would cast off its Corruptions should be a true Church There is a double Calling necessary to a dispensor of the Mysteries of salvation Inward and Outward The Inward enableth men the Outward authorizeth them to discharge their sacred function Where there are Gifts if God encline the heart of the party to enter into the Ministry there is an inward Calling Yet this alone sufficeth not without an outward Calling either Ordinary or Extraordinary We are not now to expect extraordinary callings since Miracles are ceased The Ordinary calling is by the Imposition of the hands of the Presbytery Jer. 14. 14. 27. 15. Rom. 10. 5. No other Ordination was heard of for fifteen hundred years or at lest approved of Dr. Featly's distinction of Clergy and Laity In the Reformed Churches of France and Geneva the people give no voice in the Election of Ministers but are only permitted if they have any causes of dislike or exception to make them known to the pastors guides of the Church and the power of judging such exceptions resteth wholly in them When one Morelius a phantasticall companion sought to bring the Elections of Bishops and Ministers to be popular and swayed by the most voices of the people he was condemned by all the Synods in France as Beza sheweth Epist 83. In Scripture we find Election and Ordination frequently distinguished not only as distinct acts but oft-times in distinct hands Deut. 1. 13. The people chuse them who shall be Rulers but Moses makes them Rulers Act. 6. 3. The people chuse the Apostles appoint the Deacons The chusing of a person to an office is not the authorizing of the person elected but the designation of the person to be authorized See Mr. Gillesp Miscell e. 4. The Socinians acknowledge it is fit for Order and Decency to retain Ordination in the Church Peradventure many of the Sectaries of this time will hardly acknowledge thus much Some think that the Ceremony of laying on of hands may be omitted sometimes we must be tyed to example in the lest gesture though not prescribed and yet men presume to dispense in a circumstance prescribed Tit. 1. 5. Timothy was ordained by laying on of hands and enjoyned to lay hands on others in their Ordination 1 Tim. 5. 22. Thus were the Deacons ordained Act. 6. 6. and thus were Paul and Barnabas set apart for the execution of their calling Act. 13. 3. Augustin and Chrysostom preached every day in the week and year at least once or twice without fail Ye heard yesterday yee shall hear to morrow is common in their Tractates and Homilies Mr. Bull 's trial of Separat p. 81. The Papists by way of scoff called the Evangelical Ministers praedicantici Wheras Paul judged preaching his chief Office and would not baptize lest it should be an impediment Bellarmine and the Councill of Trent style preaching praecipuum Episcopi officium The Question saith Mr. Mode on Act. 5. 3 4 5. should not be Whether Tithes are due to the Ministers of the Gospel meaning as a duty of the people unto them but rather Whether they be not due to God for so is the style of the Scripture All the Tithes are mine These I give to Levi and not you There are many other uses for the employment of Bona sacra if they be more than is competent for them and theirs That men though gifted without being called to the Ministry and by Ordination set apart for it should take upon them the office or ordinary exercise of preaching seems repugnant to those Scriptures Rom. 10. 15. Heb. 5. 4. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Christ therefore frequently urgeth this That he was sent from his Father Punishments have been inflicted on those that have medled beyond their call as Uzziah Apage vaesanam illam prophetandi libertatem imo licentiam blasphemandi ut liceat maleferiato cuique tyroni prodigiosissima cerebri sui phantasmata in apricum producere populo commendare praelo Concio D Halli ad Syn. nat Dord Such as want Authority from the Church 1. are none of Christs Officers Ephes 4. 11. 2. They are expresly forbidden it Jer. 23. 21. 3. The blessing on the Word is promised only to sent Teachers Rom. 10. 15. Mr. Owen's duty of Pastors and people distinguished p. 46 47. Inprimis displicet mihi illa quam tuentur libertas prophetandi certissima pernicies religionis nisi cert is finibus acriter coerceatur Casaub epist 320. The same Collector pag. 683 684. Obj. WE are commanded not to eat with a Brother if he be so and so Ans It signifieth to have familiar civill society with them in inviting them or feasting them But if one may not have familiar civil conversation with such much less may he eat with them at the Sacrament It follows not for in withdrawing our selves from them we punish them and shew our dislike of them but in withdrawing our selves from the Sacrament because of them we punish our selves Mr. Downame on 1 Cor. 11. 28. saith None ought to refrain coming to the Lords Table because they see scandalous sinners unworthy guests admitted For 1. The Apostle here doth not enjoyn us to examin others but our selves 2. Because the Apostles yea even Christ himself did joyn with those Assemblies in the service of God and particularly in the use of the Sacraments which were full of corruptions both in respect of doctrin and manners viz. This Church of Corinth it self 3. Because one mans sin cannot defile another nor make the seals of the Covenant uneffectuall to him who cometh in faith and repentance and even hateth that sin which he seeth committed especially when he hath no power committed unto him by God and the Church of repelling the wicked from this holy Communion 4. Because the punishment denounced against unworthy Receivers is appropriated to them who thus offend and reacheth not to the innocent because they are in their company Zanchy saith Non aut ob talem abusum Ecolesia de sinit esse Ecclesia Christi aut pii impiorum in sacris Communione possunt contaminari Beza de Presbyt p. 28. Etiamsi suis oculis Minister quenpiam viderit aliquid agentem quod coenae exclusionem mereatur jure tamen nec debeat nec possit nisi vocatum convictum legitimè denique secundum constitutum in Ecclesia ordinem damnatum à mensa Domini cum auctoritate
the Magistrate So did mady zealous Preachers contend against sports on the Lords day tolerated once and so do some still contend against Usury tolerated yet And for Forms and Discipline the Old way you know was preached down when the Laws and Magistrates did endeavour to uphold it These preachers I cannot defend but would say something for them if it had been a Form tolerated only and not establisht For we look upon a Form tolerated as a thing not approved by the State but winked at for a time and dispenst with to content a party or side A Form tolerated is at most but for triall and so long as it is put to the triall it may be contended against not by force but by argument and disswasion Nor is this to oppose the State or cross their Intention for til they declare their Mind it is presumption in a private man to intrude into their Counsells And therefore while things are under Consultation as now it cannot be justly called opposition of the Magistrate if one dispute in a familiar letter against that which they tolerate Nay the liberty of familiar letters you know is of greater extent For my part there is none gives more to the Magistrate in matters of Religion that I do none is more ready to submit to laws in all things not cleerly contrary to the Highest Law And for the present Toleration although I think I may safely take the liberty is not this also a part of the Toleration to discourse of such matters either by letter or otherwise yet I will obey your Advice as I said and I cannot chuse but commend your Moderation in not judging any man scandalous for not being of your Form Though out of Form I am really Sir your Servant in Christ Another to the same not long aster GOod Sir Having not the leasure at present to attend you at Stow I send my letter to to salute you and your good company I have considered upon your Argument yesterday taking advantage from the rubric in our Service-Book That Catechizing and Confirmation must go before the Sacrament of of the Lords Supper Therefore your New Covenant The Antecedent is in the rubric after the Form of Confirmation And I cannot defend the former neglect of Confirmation in the Bishop nor any present neglect of Catechizing by any Minister But seeing there is now none of that Confirmation to be had a great want in the Church I think what if the Minister do his part in instructing people in the Catechism and the people not only make Confession of Faith but profess Repentance Charity Obedience nor hath the Minister any assurance no nor just ground of suspicion that they are not sincere shall he not admit them to the Lords Table I would not presume to condemn all the pious and learned Ministers of the Church of England that have administred the Sacrament upon such tearms When we cannot have all done we would we must be content with what can be done as the case standeth Well Confirmation I grant is commanded as convenient and profitable not so necessary but that in case it be wanting the Sacrament may be administred Now to the sequel How your Covenant can serve in place of Confirmation I do not yet understand It consisteth only of the Confession resolution and promise of the Covenanters whereas Confirmation or laying on of hands is an act of the Bishop to certify the person confirmed of Gods favour and gracious goodness towards him and it is joyned with prayer and benediction wherwith the party is thought to be strengthned and encreas'd in grace Your Covenant I grant is somewhat like the Answer in our Catechism where the Catechized undertaketh the Baptismall vow made in his name and promiseth by Gods help to perform it And surely that is done by all that come with us to the Lords Table And approaching to it in the quality of such as repent them truly of all their sins are in charity with their neighbours and intend to lead a new life they do renew their Covenant and in taking the Sacrament have the seal thereof as t is very requisite nor do I yet see how Ministers can refuse to give it Sir shall I be bold in secret to ask you what great deliverance is the ground of your Covenant I doubt of it because upon the late deliverance from the Scotish Invasion all hopes were cut off of reforming this Church according to the pattern of Scotland which unless I am deceived was one end of the Scotish Covenant receiv'd in England I deny not great Deliverances but I take advantage from the Scots Covenant and say that the Friends thereof instead of Deliverance have had a totall overthrow Give me a little light in this and reconcile the Covenants in the religious part of them for I meddle not with temporals That which you said as I take it of peoples having excommunicated themselves by a defection from the Gospel in life and manners which is you say in effect all one as to fall from the Faith must be explaned by you For Apostacy from the Faith and profession of Christ cuts a member off from the Church and Corruption in manners doth but make a diseased member and such a one must be cured gently I remember a Covenant somewhere in Mr. Rogers his ● Treatises a Book Dedicated to King James I would gladly know whether such a one as that might not serve your turn Your Servant C. B. Reader I am tempted by the mention of the Covenant in the former Letter here to insert what seems to have been written about this time Queries of a Christian Brother which he desires may be answered before he enter into the Covenant held forth at Winchoomb 1. WHether it be lawful for any number of people thus to combine without direction of Authority which is wont to be jealous of Meetings lest under pretence of piety somewhat else be intended 2. Whether all that is moral in this Covenant be not conteined in the Prayer of all Communicants the old way to live a godly righteous and sober life and in the profession to repent of former sins and lead a new life 3. Whether all that are Catechized the old way do not take on them as good a Covenant when they answer Yes verily and by Gods help so I will c. 4. What is meant by the corrupt and formal way of worship whereof they are ashamed If the worship established in the Church of England is it not a false and scandalous expression 5. What is meant by all other Godly disciplin if the use of the Keys where have these Covenanters any Commission 6. Whether they can be said to keep the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace that innovate in the Church and divide without cause Queries upon the Covenant at Winchcomb 1652. 1. VVHether it were not much better and more needful for the People to repent their departing from the Vow of
what you delivered at Winchcomb Nov. 8. in disgrace of our Ministry and Parish-Churches but if you go on to decline answering and are only good at opposing I do not refuse to appear again in defence not only of our ministring the Sacrament but of the other two Theses That your new Churches are not the only true Churches And That Christ was truly Preached before these late years Upon which in conformity to the old Vniversity fashion I take leave to adde here not any Libel as one of you called it but my sad Epigram Papists took one away but you combine To rob the People both of Bread and Wine They blame us ' cause we have not Rites so many But you condemn us more ' cause we have any They will not call us Catholicks you can Scarce yield us the first name of Christian Poor English Church thy enemies from Rome Were cruel more unkind are these at home Your servant in the Truth Clement Barksdale Oxon. Nov. 16. 1653. Disputandi Sobrietas Ecclesiarum Medicina A true Account of a Dispute at Winchcomb-Parish-Church November 9. 1653. Written by a careful Observer November 11. and Printed with Licence November 16. for the satisfaction of the People at and neer Winchcomb Great is the Truth and it will prevail UPON the ninth of this November between nine and ten in the Morning Mr. Barksdale Minister at Sudeley the Respondent having waited a while for the comming of the Opponents first enters Mr. Helm Minister at Winchcomb immediately after him enters Collonel Aileworth Justice of peace Mr. Tray Minister at Oddington Mr. Wells Minister at Tewksbury Mr. Chaffy Minister at Naunton and some other 1. After they had taken possession of the Ministers Pue all together the Respondent ascends a Pue ex opposito which he had caused to be erected for the purpose his friend Mr. Towers Minister at Toddington and some other Orthodox Ministers taking up a lower seat next unto him on the right hand where first falling on his knees after a short ejaculation he shews himself and saluted his Opponents and after some little Pause the Question was proposed Whether it be lawful to Minister and Receive the Holy Sacrament in Congregations called mixt Or in our Parish-Churches Aff. The prior Opponent Mr. H. desired to begin with prayer Take your liberty said the Respondent who after the Preface wherein like a good Orator the Opponent told the people that Truth must look for opposition and that the Respondent was a native of the place and himself a stranger and the prayer done spake thus You will now give me leave also to speak three words 1. To God 2. To the Hearers 3. To the Opponents 1. To God I make my humble address and intreat you to lift up your hearts with me that he would be pleased to open our eyes that we may see the Truth to open our Hearts that we may embrace the Truth and to give us courage to confess the Truth and to hold it fast unto the end for Jesus Christs sake to whom be glory for ever 2. To the Hearers my earnest desire is that you would lay aside all prejudice and partiality and listen to what shall be said on either side with silence and patience And because I am a man of a slow Tongue of a tender Forehead of a frail Memory of a weak Judgement I have the more cause to beg of you my friends your secret assistance by your mental prayer that God would support me so far as I defend his cause For I declare in the presence of God the searcher of hearts that I do verily think that to be true which I maintain and that I am not willingly an enemy to true Reformation or the work of God in this place as I have been grievously charged nor am I a friend to any thing that can justly be called Popish or Antichristian God knows I detest and abhor it 3. Lastly to these Gentlemen my Opponents my request is that you would deal with me fairly and Scholar-like Take you your turns and give me mine to speak come you on one after one and let me have liberty to repeat to deny to distinguish to explain what I say so far as is needful And to conclude if we cannot agree in our opinions let us yet I pray be one in Affection and preserve amongst us that Christian Peace and Charity which is the mark and the honour of the Disciples of our gracious Lord and Master The Respondent in one of his papers afore this exercise had called the publick Meeting place as they term it the House of God But one of the Opponents Mr. W. put forward and omitting the Question began in a light velitation about that Appellation after this manner W. The House of God it is Superstition to call the place so B. I deny that proposition prove it W. The People of God are alone his House God dwells in the Hearts of his Saints B. I Answer the House of God is either the Spiritual House or the Material House The Hearts of his Elect People are the Spiritual House wherein it pleaseth God to dwell and reside This place built by our pious Ancestors and separated from other uses to his Honour and Service may without offence be called his Material House W. This House was not built for the Honour and Service of God B. I expect your proof of that Proposition W. Thus The House built in the reign of Popery and for the Honour and Adoration of Saints was not built for the honour and Service of God But this House was built in the reign of Popery and for the Honour and Adoration of Saints Therefore this House was not built for the Honour and Service of God B. I repeat The House built c. And I answer to the major by distinguishing of the end for which the House was built The End is either principal or less principal This House was built for the Honour and service of God as the principal End it was built for the Honour and Adoration of Saints as the less principal End In the Reformation of Religion our Church reteined the first End and rectifyed the second Honouring the Saints with a pious Memory not Adoring them with divine Worship Hear the Church her self speak in her excellent Liturgy W. H. Away with it we will hear none of your Liturgy and old Forms B. But I must clear the Church from all suspicion of Adoring the Saints and make the Truth evident out of the Collect for All-Saints day and 't is worthy to be heard of All Almighty God which hast knit together thy elect in one Communion and fellowship in the mystical body of thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord grant us grace so to follow thy holy Saints in all vertuous and Godly living that we may come to those unspeakable joys which thou hast prepared for them that unfeignedly love thee through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen I beseech
to hope that by your discretion all may be calmed However being not conscious to my self of any evill Doing either against private or publick persons I do securely wait for the Event I am enemy to no man that 's my Religion They that make it a part of their Religion to persecute Dissenters must take heed lest at their great peril they do good to those they malign for that Good will accrew to those that suffer for the Truth is out of question with Your Servant C. B. Decem. 9. Master Wells IF so high a comparison may be used it may be said of us as it was of two great Romans by the Historian They learned in the same that which in contrary camps they practized You and I were collegues in our Youth and lately had some clashing But Sir I wish you to use no carnal weapons for I am informed there is some intent of force to be offered me Forbear I pray and take off any such prosecution Let us proceed in debate of what is in controversy if you please to proceed without any other arms but such as become Scholars and Divines that is reasons and Arguments You shall find me I assure you on the word of a Christian very willing to yield to any thing I cannot answer Read the enclosed as if you were not a party but a judge and remember the conclusion in Minutius Faelix if you cannot forget you are a party Tu victor mei ego erroris Do not disdain to write your mind to your old acquaintance and Countryman and if you permit Loving friend still Cl. Barksdale Decem. 9. To the Right Worshipful Richard Aylworth Esquire and to the rest of the worthy Justices met at Winchcomb Decem. 17. 1653. Noble Sir TO you I address my self and by you to the rest of the worthy Justices present with you protesting my readiness to wait on you and to be obedient to the present Governours in all lawful things and namely in using or not using the Book of Common Prayer I am ready to use it if it be permitted as I suppose it is by Order of the Council of State November 12. last and I am ready † Never with contempt to lay it aside if they require it to be laid aside For I never thought it the only way of serving God I have done nothing in contempt of any Act or Ordinance of State I have ever Preacht Obedience to Superiours Nor do I desire to live any longer than I may be a profitable Member of this Common-wealth in my little sphear And you will be so tender I hope of the Honour of publick Justice as not to condemn such a man unheard Let not Christian Gentlemen and Englishmen be less equal than Pagan Romans You will in your piety and wisdom I hope give a check to the violence of my Accusers whose Religion is Revenge You will in your Charity and Goodness endeavour so far as lawfully you may the preservation of Gods Servant and your poor Friend Cl. Barksdale Decem. 17. 1653. To Master William Towers Decem. 17. 1653. Dear Sir AS God hath vouchsafed us the honour to appear for some Great Truths in our Religion so it seemeth by the Justices proceeding at Winchcomb we shall have this second honour to suffer for them Te Deum laudamus I have sent them a Letter this morn to put them in mind of the manner of the Romans I hope 't will not seem to them Antichristian not to condemn men unheard I do not find in my self any fear of them Though I cannot say as the good Archbishop Whitgift said He had two things to give him courage against his potent Adversaries Orbitatem Senectutem being in the midst of my Course and being call'd Father by six little motherless children Yet I can say Si Deus nobiscum and take courage enough from the Cause If all the world oppose it Truth is Truth and God is Truth To whose Grace and protection I commend us and all ours Your assured friend and Brother C. B. C. B. to D. W. December 19. 53. SIR It is very true that I told you the first draught of that dispute was the work but of one day while the memory of it was fresh and the carefull observer is no other than the Respondent himself who is not ashamed to own as well the penning as the publishing of it My worthy friend that stood in subsidiis if he hath noted any considerable Defect in it may do well as I requested him to send me his supplement But the setting down an Enthymen for a Syllogism and the omission of little matters on the by I conceive is no very considerable want Indeed there was a passage between him and the opponents concerning the Institution of the Sacrament which because I found not the particulars in my frail memory I mentioned not Now Sir for the proceeding against me at Winchcomb the last week which together with a very frivolous report about the D. of Y. in the inquiry whereof methinks the Religion of an oath was made cheap was the business of the three Justices I must tell you what good people say That the new-saints there discover what they are by their pride and spightfulness That they procured warrant to fetch in some of my neighbours to swear against me for using the Common-Prayer-Book who are not so Book-learned that they can well tell when I use it when not That they some of them gave this false evidence that on the Monday sollowing the Dispute when Mr. Helme would not appear I had drawn to the Church a company you were one of lewd persons That the Justices have not obliged me by any humanity or charity toward me suffering me to be accused by such fellowes in my absence that But no more of this now To conclude this scribble I would have all know that I do forgive my Adversaries whom I have assayed to cool by kind letters and that I do not fear them that I am well affected to all Goverment by which I am protected and that I am so well opinioned of the present Governor that I believe he will at least tolerate that Religion wherein himself as well as we were once baptiz'd C. B. to Mr. G. December 24. 1653. SIR I have seriously considered both what you writ to me and what you said You said Let Ministers preach at home and take heed of Meetings It is good to be wise and wary but to omit the means and opportunity of doing good in our Callings even when there is some shew of perill to our selves I doubt will argue rather a timorous deserting of our Cause than a prudent wariness Ministers must not only labour single and in their own Cures but by a brotherly union and mutual assistance advance the work of their Master and procure the peace of the Church When so many unlearned new Teachers both single and united shew such zeal to make proselytes shall we that
etiam in scripturarum interpretationibus praesertim ubi plerique omnes consentiunt deflectere non audere toti Ecclesiae Christi ingenuè fateor Et postea Hoc ego ingenuè denuò profiteor talem esse meam conscientiam ut à veterum patrum sive dogmatibus sive scripturarum interpretationibus non facile nisi vel manifestis sacrarum literarum testimoniis vel necessariis consequentiis apertisque demonstrationibus convictus atque coactus discedere queam Sic exim acquiescit mea conscientia in hac ment is quiete cupio etiam mori Idem ad Cap. 25. QUid quòd in Ecclesiis etiam Protestantium non desunt reipsa Episcopi Archiepiscopi quos mutatis bonis Graecis nominibus in malè Latina vocant superintendentes generales superintendentes Sed ubi etiam neque illa vetera bona Graeca neque haec nova malè Latina nomina obtinent ibi tamen solent esse aliquot primarii penes quos fere tota est autoritas De nominibus ergo fuerit controversia verùm cum de rebus convenit quid de nominibus altercamur Idem in fine PRecor omnes Christianos per Dominum Jesum ut positis vanis privatorum hominum somniis positis etiam propriis carnis affectibus odiis inimicitiis amplexi verò certum ac salutarem veteris Ecclesiae doctrinam Christianamque dilectionem coeamus omnes in unam fidem sanctamque amicitiam sicut nobis quoque omnibus unus est Deus unus Mediator unum Baptisma una spes vocationis nostrae ad gloriam nominis Dei Ecclesiae aedificationem salutemque animorum nostrorum Citius enim quam putamus sistemur ante tribunal Christi ut referat unusquisque prout se gessit in corpore in hac vita quando post hanc vitam nulla spes veniae nullus resipiscentiae locus est Hooker in his Preface Sect. 4. A Very strange thing sure it were that such a Discipline as ye speak of should be taught by Christ and his Apostles in the word of God and no Church ever have found it out nor received it till this present time contrariwise the Government against which ye bend your selves be observed every where throughout all generations and ages of the Christian world no Church ever perceiving the word of God to be against it We require you to find out but one Church upon the face of the whole earth that hath been ordered by your Discipline or hath not been orderd by ours that is to say by Episcopal regiment sithence the time that the blessed Apostles were here conversant The same Sect. 6. AS for the Orders which are established sith equity and reason the Law of Nature God and man do all favour that which is in being till orderly judgement of decision be given against it it is but justice to exact of you and perverseness in you it should be to deny thereunto your willing obedience Not that I judge it a thing allowable for men to observe those Laws which in their hearts they are stedfastly perswaded to be against the Law of God but your perswasion in this case ye are all bound for the time to suspend and in otherwise doing ye offend against God by troubling his Church without any just or necessary cause The same Sect. 8. AGain it may justly be feared whether our English Nobility when the matter came in tryal would contentedly suffer themselves to be alwaies at the call and to stand to the sentence of a number of mean persons assisted with the presence of their poor teacher a man as sometimes it hapneth though better able to speak yet little or no whit apter to judge than the rest From whom be their dealings never so absurd unless it be by way of complaint to a Synod no appeal may be made unto any one of higher power in as much as the order of your Discipline admitteth no standing inequality of Courts no Spiritual Judge to have any ordinary Superior on earth but as many Supremacies as there are Parishes and several Congregations Neither is it altogether without cause that so many do fear the overthrow of all learning as a threatned sequel of this your intended Discipline For if the worlds preservation depend upon the multitude of the wise and of that sort the number hereafter be not likely to wax over great when that wherewith the Son of Syrach professeth himself at the heart grieved men of understanding are already so little set by how should their minds whom the love of so precious a Jewel filleth with secret jealousy even in regard of the least things which may any way hinder the flourishing estate thereof choose but misdoubt lest this Discipline which alwaies you match with Divine Doctrine as her natural and true Sister be found unto all kinds of knowledge a Stepmother seeing that the greatest worldly hopes which are proposed unto the chiefest kind of learning yee seek utterly to extirpate as weeds and have grounded your platform on such Propositions as do after a sort undermine those most renowned habitations where through the goodness of Almighty God all commendable Arts and Sciences are with exceeding great industry hitherto and so may they for ever continue studied proceeded in and profest To charge you as purposely bent to the overthrow of that wherein many of you have attained no small perfection were injurious Only therefore I wish that your selves did well consider how opposite certain your positions are c. Master Edward Leigh a dilligent Collector in his Body of Divinity P. 454 c. THe Socinians say Cum adhuc nova c. The Apostles had a call when the Gospel was newly published there needs not a Ministry now that the Gospel is generally taught and it is promised we shall be all taught of God If we should look for a Ministry where shall we find it Our Ministets were ordained by Bishops they by the Pope Therefore their Calling is Anti-Christian But That there is such an Institution of Christ and this to continue till the worlds end may be thus proved First there are some to whom the word of reconciliation is committed and not to others 1 Cor. 5. 18. Rom. 10. 15. there is a peculiar mission Men cannot Preach as the Embassadors of Christ unless sent Jo. 20. 21. Gal. 1. 1. Secondly because a special authority is committed to such by vertue of their office they have the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven Is 22. 22. Mat. 16. 19. The Brownists say our Ministers are not rightly called into their offices because we received it from Rome Ans Not every thing ordained by Anti-Christ is forthwith to me rejected but only that which he doth qua Antichristus as he is Antichrist But Bishops were before ever Antichrist appeared in the world Brown the father of the Brownists was the first of note that did separate himself from the Church of England and said that we had no Church he meant a true Church But after he
and most Authenticall Interpreters of God's Word and consequently the fittest Judges between Me and You when we differ untill you shall find me better Fift paper A pious Offer of the English Clergy Anno 1644. I Shall offer in the name of my brethren of the Clergy not that I have took their particular votes but that I perswade my self so far of their piety That rather than the Glory should thus depart from Israel by laying wast this flourishing Church of ours every one single of us that have any possessions or titles worthy any mans envy or rapine and so are thought now by our own Interests to have been bribed or fee'd Advocates in this cause may forthwith be deprived of all that part of the Revenues of the Church wherein we are legally invested And he that shall not cheerfully resign his part in the present prosperity of the Church on the meer contemplation and intuition of the benefit that may now and after his life redound to others let him have the charge of being disturber of the State And if the Function it self with the necessary adjuncts to it be not swept away in the calamity we shall be perfectly pleas'd whatsoever befall our Persons and desire that tryall may be made of the ingenuity of Clergy-men whether we have not thus far profited under Gods rod as to be willing to yield to any possible proposition which will bring no guilt of sin upon our Consciences toward the averting the Judgments of Heaven Dr. Hammond's Consid of Church-government Of Universall Redemption THese two propositions are very reconcilable that Christ redeemed all men and yet that the whole number of the impenitent unbelieving reprobate world shall never be saved by him The great Benefits of Christ's death which I affirm to be general are given upon condition not absolutely as God's love to the world and the effect of it giving his Son is not designed that all absolutely but that all conditionally i. e. Whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life They which do not perform that condition as Gods knows a great multitude do not shall never be saved by his death To which purpose is that of Prosper one far enough from all kindness to the Pelagians Redemptor mundi dedit pro mundo sanguinem suum mundus redimi noluit The Redeemer of the world gave his bloud for the world and the world would not be redeemed Ad Gall. cap. 9. To that testimony Heb. 2. 9. so clear that it alone hath to my knowledge convinc'd one as learned a man as doth in this Church of ours maintain the doctrins contrary to the Remonstrants I shall ex abundanti add these other plain testimonies Not only that of Gods giving his only Son mention'd by Christ as an effect or expression of his love to the world which it would not be if he did not give him for the world whom he is said to love but to prevent all distinctions concerning the notion of the world as if it signified only the elect more particularly these two First that of 2 Pet. 2. 1. Where the Lord i. e. Christ is plainly said to have bought i. e. paid the Price satisfied for them who deny him and bring upon themselves swift destruction The other testimony is that of S. Paul 2 Cor. 5. 14. Where speaking of the constraining obliging love of Christ he said We thus judge that if one dyed for all then were all dead that is surely All in the full latitude not only the elect but All others and this conclusion the Apostle infers by this medium because One that is Christ dyed for All. Which being a proof of the other must certainly be as true and the All as generall and unlimited c. Dr. Hammond Vindic. of the Prac. Catech. p. 4 5. Of set forms of Prayer THat it is lawfull to use a set determinate form of words either written or fastned in our memory is apparent both by the example of Christ who in S. Luke bids us when we pray say Our Father c. not only pray after this pattern as the words in S. Matthew may be interpreted but use these very words when you pray say Our Father c. Luke 11. 2. and of John Baptist who taught his disciples to pray in some form though we know not what it is Luke 11. 1. As also of the Priests that used set forms of blessing the people Numb 6. 24. and of our Saviour himself who used a part if not the whole of the 22. Psalm upon the Cross My God my God why hast thou forsaken me c. And of the Church of the Jews and Christian Churches through all times who have had their Liturgies as ways and forms of serving God publickly and as means to preserve the true Religion from all corruptions in doctrine Add the great benefit that accrews to the Congregation in having discreet well-formed prayers and so not subject to the temerity and impertinences of the sudden effusions and the same still in constant use and so not strange or new to them but such as they may with understanding go along with the Minister and by the help of their Memory the most ignorant may carry them away for his private use Pract. Catech. lib. 3. sect 2. Melancthon Calvino 1543. Maii. 11. SCio Deum inter fatales Imperiorum tumultus Ecclesiam suam servare mirabiliter Non igitur frangamur animis sed dum possumus sonemus ut conversus Latro in cruce doctrinam de Filio Dei deque arcana sapientia quae est Ecclesiae propria de magnitudine humanae infirmitatis de poenitentia fiducia promissae misericordiae propter filium de vera invocatione veris Ecclesiae virtutibus de mysteriis non polluendis de Ecclesiae politia non illa quam fingunt Pontifices sed qualis fuit Prophetarum Apostolorum denique de vita aeterna Ad harum maximarum rerum doctrinam ornandam transfer as velim eloquentiom tuam quae confirmare nostros terrere adversarios sanabiles juvare poterit Fortassis nostra Germania paulo post à Turcis vastabitur quod si fiet eo magis vobis alibi in locis tutioribus studia literarum excitanda erunt pugnandum vehementius ut in reliqua Europa Evangelii lucem accendatis retineatis Quod ad quaestionem de praedestinatione habebam amicum Tubingae doctum hominem Franciscum Stadianum qui dicere solebat se utrumque probare evenire omnia ut divina providentia decrevit tamen esse contingentia sed se haec conciliare non posse Ego cum hypothesin hanc teneam Deum non esse causam peccati nec velle peccatum postea contingentiam in hac nostra infirmitate judicii admitto ut sciant rudes Davidem sua voluntate ultro ruere eundem sentio cum haberet Spiritum Sanctum potuisse eum retinere in ea lucta aliquem esse voluntatis
actionem Haec etiamsi subtilius disputari possunt tamen ad regendas mentes hoe modo proposit● accommodata videntur Accusemus ipsi nostram voluntatem cum labimur non quaeramus in Dei consilio causam contra eam nos erigamus sciamus Deum velle opitulari adesse luctantibus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inquit Basilius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Excitetur ergo cura in nobis laudetur Dei immensa bonit as quum promisit auxilium praestat Haec non scribo ut tibi tradam quasi dictata homini eruditissimo ac peritissimo exercitiorum pietatis Et quidem scio haec cum tuis congruere sed sunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad usum accommodata Haec Bonnae scripsi apud D. Bucerum cum eo accersitus est ut Ecclesias in Diocesi Coloniensi emendaret Haec consilia Deo piis votis commendes Philippus Melancthon Of the power of the Congregation LEt not any man think now that the Apostle communicateth this power with the Congregation of the Church of Corinth when he writeth to them 1 Cor. 5. 4 5. being assembled with his spirit to deliver the incestuous person to Satan For it is plain that the sentence is given by the Apostle vers 3. where he writeth For I verily as absent in body but present in spirit have judged already as though I were present concerning him that hath so done this deed And to cause this proceeding to be the better digested he hath vouched his power in the end of the chapter afore verse 18. Now some are puffed up as though I would not come unto you but I will come unto you shortly if the Lord will and will know not the speech of them that are puffed up but the power What will you shall I come unto you with a rod or with the spirit of meekness Which power otherwhiles he setteth before them in case of their disobedience And therefore it must be acknowledged that he writeth to them to see his sentence published ratified and executed which the Presbyters there had either neglected to do or perhaps were not able to bring the people under the Discipline of Christ's Kingdom which must needs oblige the Apostle to interpose And this without doubt is the reason why the Apostle writeth in these terms 1 Cor. 5. 12. For what have I to do to judge those that are without do not ye judge those that are within speaking to the Church in general though the sentence passed by Bishop and Presbyters because matters were censured in the Congregation and executed by the people And thus the practice of that time giveth a reason without straining why our Lord seemeth to refer these matters to the Congregation when he saith Tell it to the Church because they passed at their Assemblies though under Censure of Bishop and Presbyters And great reason there is why this regard should be had by the Apostle and by the Church afterwards to the People because the Church being a meer spiritual Commonwealth and not indued with temporal strength so much as to execute those sentences which the power of the Keys given by Christ obligeth it to inflict always setting wide that power of working miracles which was in the Apostle upon which some think he reflecteth in some passages of those Epistles requisite it was then the Congregation should be satisfied of the course of those proceedings which must come into execution and effect by their voluntary submission to the will of God and the office of his Ministers And as the matter is now that things of this nature proceed not upon mens private Consciences and Judgments in particulars but upon general rules of Common right requisite it is that the Common-wealth have satisfaction of those Laws according to which the Church now must proceed in their censures it being acknowledged that they cannot proceed with effect but by vertue of those Laws that are put in force by the secular Arm. Mr. Thorndike of Prim. Government p. 144. Reader Take for a Conclusion of all at this time that too pertinent Relation which you may read more at large in Mr. Hookers preface collected out of Guy de bres Of the Errour of the Anabaptists THey so much affected to cross the ordinary custome in every thing that when other mens use was to put on better attire they would be sure to shew themselves openly abroad in worse the ordinary names of the days in the week they thought it a kind of prophaness to use and therefore accustomed themselves to make no other distinction than by numbers The first second third day-They boldly avouched that themselves only had the truth and that since the Apostles lived the same was never before in all points sincerely taught Other disputation against their opinions than only by allegation of Scripture they would not hear besides it they thought no other writings in the world should be studyed in so much as one of their great Prophets exhorting them to cast away all respects unto human writings so far to his motion they condescended that as many as had any Books save the Holy Bible in their custody they brought and set them publickly on fire When they and their Bibles were alone together what strange phantasticall opinion soever at any time enterd into their heads their use was to think the Spirit taught it them Their own Ministers they highly magnified as men whose vocation was from God the rest their manner was to term disdainfully Scribes and Pharisees to account their calling an human creature and to detein the people as much as might be from he●ring th●m The custome of using God-fathers and God-mothers at Christnings they scorned Baptizing of Infants although confest by themselves to have been continued ever sithence the Apostles own times yet they altogether condemned The Eucharist they received pretending our Lord and Saviours example after Supper and for avoiding all those impieties which have been grounded upon the mysticall words of Christ This is my Body This is my Blood they thought it not safe to mention either body or blood in that Sacrament but rather to abrogate both and to use no words but these Take eate declare the death of our Lord Drink shew forth our Lords Death In rites and ceremonies their profession was hatred of all conformity with the Church of Rome for which cause they would rather endure any torment than observe the solemn Festivals which others did in as much as Antichrist they said was the first inventor of them The pretended end of their civil reformation was that Christ might have dominion over all that all Crowns and Scepters might be thrown down at his feet that no other might reign over Christian men but He no regiment to keep them in awe but his disciplin amongst them no sword at all to be carried besides his the sword of spirituall excommunication They laboured to bring in Community of goods because Christ by his