would haue had him to surrender the Empire And taking his Father prisoner he committed hym to straight custodie without anie motion of the Pope therevnto as with whome also he was at Variance Then as touching the Shearing or thrusting him into A Moâ—asterie or famishing of Henrie the fourth lette hym that made these shamefull lyes shewe his Authour and defende hym selfe Who Apolog. so ilfauouredlie and monstrouslie put the Emperour Frederikes necke vnder hys feete and as thoughe that were not suffyciente added further thys Texte out of the Psalmes Thou shalt goe vppon the Adder and Cockatrice and shalt tread the Lyon and Dragon vnder thy feete Who this should be Conf. 188 your selues can not tell whiche are the onelie mainteiners of the tale For sometymes ye laie it to Innocentius the thyrde sometymes to Innocentius the eyght sometymes to Alexander the thyrde And the fact being so strainge and singular that it coulde not be but notorious yet ye haue so litle certeintie thereof that ye knowe not who should haue done it But the trueth is no graue writer maketh any mention of such behauiour of the Pope The Emperour Theodosius 〈◊〉 as Socraâ—es sayth did not only sit emongs the Bishopes but also ordered the whole arguiâ—g of the cause Here you speake of sitting 〈…〉 as though Thâ—odâ—sius had then ben at some General Councel You speake also of ordering the whole arguing of the cause as though him selfe had ben a moderatour of some disputation The plaine storie is Hist. 〈◊〉 9 ca. 19 Theodosius conâ—erred familiarly in his owne palace with the Bishope of Constantinople howe his people might be brought to an vnitie in faith And when the heretikes refused one good way which was to be tried by the testimonies of Auncient Fathers he went an other waie to worke with theÌ„ whiche was that eche of them should bring furthe in writing that which he had to say for his faith Which being don the Emperour read ouer theyr writings aÌ„d reiected the ArriaÌ„s MacedoniaÌ„s and Eunomians heresies and embraced and commended the iudgement of the Nicene Councel touching the consubstantiality of God the Sonne with his Father So that this historie serueth nothing to the mater of a General Councel nor proueth that an Emperour may sit there as Iudge emong the Bishops nor that Theodosius did vpon his owne heade and as Supreme Gouernour that which Socrates here reporteth of him but that he folowed the Councel of his Bishope Nectarius and the former decrees of the Nicene Councel Iustinian put doun from theyr Papal Throne two Popes Apolog. Syluerius and Vigilius notwithstaÌ„ding thei were Peters successours and Christes Uicars No Conf. 3. it was not Iustinian but his Ladie Theodora which was a great mainteiner of heretikes and when women theyr husbandes being alyue be so ferueÌ„t in sprite that they must haue such Popes as please them selues no wounder if Peters Successours be shamefullie handeled Charles the greate being Emperour held a prouincial Councel in Germanie Apolog. for putting awaye Images contrary to the second Councel at Nice This is so false Confut. 327 that the contrarie is most true For whereas the heretikes named Imagebreakers Abbas Vrsper Anselm Ryd PeÌ„cerus Carion Pantalâ—o had holden a CouÌ„cel at Constantinople for abrogating of Images directly against this impietie of theyrs Pope Adrian and Charles the greate held an other Councell at Frankeford in Germanie So muche it lacketh that Charles the greate should be a fauourer of Imagebreakers The fourth Chapiter conteinyng the lies made vpon the Auncient Fathers and other VVriters S. Augustin Apolog. wheÌ„ he disputed against PetiliaÌ„ an heretik of the side of the Donatistes let not these words Aug. de vnitate Eccl. c 30 quod he be heard betwen vs I say or you say let vs rather speake in this wise thus sayth the Lord there let vs seeke the Church there let vs boult out the cause THe question betwene S. Augustine aÌ„d the Donatistes was this Conf. 29. wher the Church should be Now to proue that the Church was not with the Catholiks the Donatistes were busie alwaies in rehersing how the Catholikes had burned the holie bokes aÌ„d had offred incense to Idols and had persequuted InnoceÌ„tes like as the protestaÌ„tes in these daies wheÌ„ the questioÌ„ is of the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome thei vse to make a long tale how such a Pope was a NecromaÌ„cer and such a one a leacheroâ—s man and some other proude and ambitious Now although S. Augustine mighâ— and did also in sundry places say truelyâ— that the obiections of the Donatisteâ— were false Augu. de vnit Eccles ca. 2. IdeÌ„ lib. 2. coÌ„t epist. petil c. 8. and though he might brinâ— furth against them also greater examples of their faults yet considering thaâ— such oiections taken out of the euill life of the one side or the other doe not perteine to the question proponed And seeing that altercation and strife only waâ— mainteined thereby whiles eche partâ— would say â–ª the other lied and would noâ— ceasse to tell what they could one of thâ— other being not credited yet one of thâ— other S. Augustine therefore not desirous to chide but earnest to proue thâ— Churche to be on his side vseth thesâ— wordes De vnit Eccl. c. â— Let vs not heare This I saie or This thou saiest but let vs heare this saieth our Lord â–ª After which wordes these folowe whiche the Apologiâ— should not haue omitted Truly ther bâ— extant our Lordes bookes the authoritie of which we both do agree with al we both beleue we both serue and obey There let vs seeke the Church there vs boult out our cause For the Church it self to proue it selfe by her owne wordes is not conuenient And to credit her at the reporte and coÌ„meÌ„dation of a baser aÌ„d vnworthier witnes then her self is very dishonorable It remaineth therefore that her cause be examined by the Scriptures as whiche haue so great authority and are so generally receiued And truly it is exceading wel prouided of God that in theyr seueral causes the Church sâ—ould declare the scriptures and the scriptures the church And so wheÌ„ any maÌ„ beleueth the church and striueth with me vpon a text of the scripture I would say vnto him let vs haue no more these words I saie or you say but let vs heare rather this saieth the Church On the other side when one beleueth the scriptures as heretikes thinke they do and would reason with me about the Church where it should be I would answer Let not these wordes be hearâ— among vs I say or you say but let vs heare This saith the Scripture Therefore in this principall question betwene the Catholikes and the Donatists which was where the Church should be the best waye was only to appeale to Scriptures Againe the Donatistes admitteâ— the Scriptures but other thinges which S. Augustine alleaged out of laufull recordes either of the
came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal
vs either what or whereof For ther is an holy adminstratioÌ„ of al the seueÌ„ sacrameÌ„ts aÌ„d in other things also which the church obserueth as halowiÌ„g of churches of paschal taper of palma of asshes aÌ„d in buâ—iyng of the dead But the decre is referred to the holy oblation or sacrifice the truth of which as ye wil not beleue so the very sâ—uÌ„d of the word ye caÌ„ not wel abide SecoÌ„dly th' emperor speketh not of som fruit as you say as though no ê“fit câ—me of th' oblation if the priest spake not aloud but of more deuotioÌ„ to be stirred therby GeuiÌ„g vs to vnderstaÌ„d that al is not lost though nothiÌ„g be hard but somwhat is won wheÌ„ the sense is more stirred Thirdly your surmise that we therfore speke with a holow voice lest the peple shuld vnderstaÌ„d vs is vnsensible For neither the clergy shuld lese any thiÌ„g if the people were learned Nor the people should vnderstaÌ„d much spake thei latin neuer so loud And heretiks wold vtter the secrets of our seruice were we neuer so warie And no charitable man will suspecte it of the whole Church that they enuie the peoples commoditie Then as for mumbling vp the Seruice the Catholikes doe in theyr most chiefest Churches sing and saie more distinctly and treatably then anie protestantes doe And I feare if Seruice were so songe in England as the Dominicans Augustines Franciscanes and Carthusians doe vse many of the moste feruente in sprite would complaine vppon the leisure and treatablenes that were taken in it Fourthely the Latine is no strange or barbarouse tongue as being the most coÌ„mon in this west parte of the world and one of the three principall and lerned tongues Pope Iulius doth euidently forbyd Apolog. that a Priest in ministring the Communion should dippe the bread in the cup. These men contrary to Pope Iulius decree diuide the bread and dyppe it in the wine He doth it so euidently Confut. 243. that it is not at all to be seen in his decree Shewe it that he forbiddeth the Priest to dippe the bread in the Cuppe as we vse in our mysteries and ye shal be honest meÌ„ But he speaketh De coÌ„sec distin 2. cuÌ„omne not of the maner of the Priestes vsing or receiuing the Sacrament but only of ministring of the hoste dipped in the blud vnto the peple which neither at this daie is allowed You must serue vs no more with suche soppes dipped in lies Pope Clement saieth Apolog. it is not lawfull for a Bishop to deale with both swords For if thou wilt haue both saith he thou shalt deceaue both thy selfe and those that obey thee Now a daies the Pope chalengeth both swordes and vseth them both Wherefore it ought to seeme lesse maruail if that haue folowed which ClemeÌ„t saieth that is that he hath deceaued both his owne selfe and those which haue geuen eare vnto him It is not laufull for you so desperatly to make lies Con. 245 For how is not this desperatly done to say that of any man which 〈◊〉 not be proued by him The Pope sayeth Si mundialibus curis fueris occupatus if thou be occupied in worldly cares And the Apologie maketh him to say 〈◊〉 vtrumque habere vis if thou wilt haue both swordes If Cura signify a sword and mundialis signifie two Or if Occupari curis be to occupi two swords then hath the Apologie geuen a greate blowe to the Papistes But whereas no such construction can be made it hath fought in this place not only without 〈◊〉 sworde but also without a scabberd because there is no such word in Pope ClemeÌ„t in which they maie put anie of the two swordes that they drawe out of his testimonie Nazianzen pronouÌ„ced openly yâ— he neuer had seen any good end of any couÌ„cel Apolog. He spake of the prouincial Councels And he spake also of his owne time Confut. 278. iâ— which heretikes did commonly deceaue priÌ„ces aÌ„d by force set vp their new deuices But he was not so vnwise as to mislike with Generall Councels or to geaue an example to the posteritie of extreme and vnreasonable disobedience In old time when the Church of God if we wil compare it with their Church was very wel gouerned Apolog. both elders DeacoÌ„s as saieth CypriaÌ„ certaine also of the common people were called vnto Councelles and made acquainted with ecclesiasticall matters What were these certain of the people whoÌ„ ye would proue by S. CypriaÌ„ to haue ben called to CouÌ„cels By this word certaine you signifie that there was an order takeÌ„ who should come who should not come And you make your Reader to coÌ„ceiue that out of the coÌ„mon people som were chosen which should be present at CouÌ„cels as though that had bene materiall in the Primitiue Church But S. CypriaÌ„ saith no such thing that any at al of the people Cypr. in Sententiis Con. CarthagineÌ„sis were called to the Councell but only this that when manie Byshopes at the first daye of September were assembled together at Crathage with their Priestes and Deacons the most part of the people were also present But who sent 〈◊〉 them Or who thought theyr presence necessary or how make you the presence of the most parte to be a calling oâ— certeine of the people By like reason you might say that in al causes where either a spiritual or temporal lorde is examined the people are called to the hearing of it because they are very prone to vnderstand newes and are not forbyddeâ—â— to stand by and here what is done in open Courte At the commyng of Christ Apolog. of God his worde of the ecclesiastical doctrine and of the ful destruction of Niniue and of that most beautiful harlotte then shal the people which heretofore had ben cast in a â—raunce vnder theyr masters be raised vp and shal make haste to goe to the mountaines of Scripture I note Confut. .331 in this testimony of S. Hierom your lieing spritâ— and sprity she spite For whereas he speaketh not of the Church of Rome but of the vniuersall state of the world which is signified by Niniue and whereas you care not what come of the world so that the church of Rome may be defaced of that which was but one in S. Hierome you haue made two things and turne that one which is altogeather of your owne making to the setting furth of your procedinges For S. Hierom speaketh of the destruction of Niniue In com in Nah. cap. 3 â–ª speciosissimae quondaÌ„ meritricis of Niniue which was once a most beautiful haâ—lot and you make him to speake of Niniue speciosissimae meretricis of Niniue aÌ„d the most beautiful harlot as though that Niniue were one thing and the beutiful harlot were an other Yet because this was not plaine enough for your purpose you geue S. Hierome the spirite of prophesie And verely you thinke he ment to foretell of
hys Prophetes often and ernestly commaundeth the King c. To wryte out the booke of the Lawe for hym selfe Ye bring this place to proue Conf. 303 that temporal Princes haue as much to doe with Religion as Bishoppes and Priestes For the Kinge saye you muste write out the Lawe Deut. 17. But whie leaue ye out that whiche foloweth accipiens exemplar takynge the Copie of the Priestes of the Trybe of Leuie By which woordes it is clearlie perceyued that it is not in the Kynges handes to meddle with Scriptures but as he receaueth them of his betters in that authoritie the Priestes King Ioas bridled the riot and arrogancie of the Priestes Apol. We finde no such wordes in the text Conf. 307 4. Reg. 12. Iosue receiued coÌ„maundements Apolo specially touching religion We haue readen the whole Chapiter Iosue 1. Confut. .305 and we find no suche specialities there but onelie that he shoulde passe ouer Iordane And diuide the lande of Promise and be of good cumforte and strength with other lyke woordes all to the Temporall Gouernement of the â—eople but of Religion Sacrifice Praying for the people expounding the Law c. no one sentence Yea rather as it appereth in the first setting of him in his office the scripture saieth expressly 〈◊〉 any thing be to be done for this Iosue Eleazar the Priest shal aske counsel 〈◊〉 the Lorde Nu 27. At his worde vndoubtedly at the Priests he shal goe furth and come in c. Which of the two then 〈◊〉 nerer to God aÌ„d worthier by his office He that speaketh himselfe with God or he that heareth God his word by any interpretatour He which geaueth the commaundement or he which must obey it Doe no more so with the scriptures aÌ„d if none shal let you to make your own sense vpon them yet neuer take so much vpon you to put in the text it self which is not of the Scripture And further consider whether this be not to adde and take awaie from the Scripture to make that of the plural nuÌ„ber which is of the singular only To suppresse those wordes which being put in doe dissolue the knoâ— of the question To put that in whiche is not at al in the text To alleage sayinges that can not be found And to misconstrue sentences that are founde And then when you haue considered all this conferre therewith that which ye finde in the Apocalipse of S. Iohn that If any man adde vnto these things Apo vl God shal lay vpon him the plagues that are written in this booke And if anie man diminishe of the wordes of the booke of this prophecy God shal take his part out of the booke of life and out of the holy Citie and from these things which are writteÌ„ in this booke The 7. Chapiter conteining the flat lyes of the Apologie There haue ben wittely procured by the Bishop of Rome certaine persons of eloquence enough Apolog. not vnlcarned neither which should put their helpe to his cause now almost desperate NAme the Pope which hath procured them Confut. 9 Name the Persone which haue ben procured and ye shal either confesse your faultes or stand gyltie for two lyes Proue also that he wylely procured ani meÌ„ to help his cause because this word wylely maketh your lye aÌ„d slauÌ„der more greeuous For either you meane that he did it in dâ—de and that he would not be sene to doe it either that he did it boldly and manifestly but yet vsed a witty and subtil meane vnto it ConcerniÌ„g the first he neded not to be ashamed to defend his cause He might boldly without reproch choose any of the lerned aÌ„d eloqueÌ„t Catholiks for that purpose For the faith which the whole Churche opeÌ„ly coÌ„fesseth â–ª what dishonesty at al is it to coÌ„maund aloud that the best lerned shuld declare it and by declaring of it coÌ„meÌ„d it that wheÌ„ iust cause is geueÌ„ of it it mai be knoweÌ„ for a truth sufficieÌ„tly pued ConcerniÌ„g the second it were a small part of policy to labour by a fancy to perswade the whole world in a falsitie Princes desirous to restrain the gospel sought many wayes Apolog. but preuailed nothing now almost the whole world doth begyn to opeÌ„ their eies to behold yâ— light What place hath your gospel in Spain Conf. 1â— What place in Italy What successe hath your gospel in France WheÌ„ Lady Marie was once proclaimed Queene how preuailed your preachiÌ„g Did ye not flee beyond sea into free Cities And why into those more thaÌ„ into ani other but because ye preuaile not with Princes but such as cal you to their fauour of whoÌ„ yet ther are so few and so weak in al ChristeÌ„dom that in the rekning they make a litle somme And now say you the whole world almost doth begyn to open their eyes A worshipful begining after xvâ— yearis But why say ye not without almost that al the whole world begiÌ„neth to opeÌ„ their eyes You haue a coÌ„science I trow in making a lye and therfore you add almost How much theÌ„ lacketh I pray you If Loâ—aÌ„ Paris Bonony Padua SalamaÌ„ca CoÌ„pluâ—uÌ„ and other great Vniuersities but smal â—ortioÌ„s of the whole if these were lightened by your gospel would ye put out your almost What meane ye by this almoste Perchance all is ouercomed with you sauing Rome itselfe and the small Cities about it Nay haue ye not greate and Princely states as of Florence Vrbine Genua Ferrara Millaine Venice Treuers Mentes Colone Salisburg and the Catholike Cantones And sundrie Countries as Bauarie Sauoy Burgundie Loraine Brabrant Flaunders Holland Artoys Henaut Friseland Guelderland Cleueland Prussia Carinthia And many Ilandes as Sicilia Corsica Sardinia Maltha and the ZelaÌ„ds And many kingdoms as Naples FraÌ„ce Spaine Pole Bohemie Hungary and Portugale and the Empire it selfe which see well enough how darke your gospel is But no matter for these small peeces What say you then to the new Indians which alone are greater than all whom we haue rekened If you lacke but them alone haue you all the world all most No This is so great a lye that â— might turne it backeward and say the whole world almost doth defie your Gospel All theyr trauayle hath in a manner come to naught Apolog. How say you to the late general CouÌ„cel Conf. 15 â–ª which had so woÌ„derful good successe and which is so executed in Rome it selfe that not only the Bishopes but Cardinals also are sent to theyr cures and goe obediently vnto them No bodye driuing it forwarde and without anie wordly helpe King Harry the eygth then is no body with you the Duke of Saxonie Lantgraue of Hesse King Edwarde the sixth the Villaines of Boheme the Hugonites of France c. Al these then are no body On the other syde our cause againste the wil of Emperours If Charles alone had not geuen more to clemencie which ouercommeth most of all noble personages
had in his owne power to pleasure whom he listeth which is nothing so For if we shal consider the acte of the Priest as it is his owne Psonal so doth he according to his deuoute intention not by authoritie but by supplication obtaine a vertue and influence to come frome Christ to them for whom he specially offereth â— But himselfe also being a poore wretche and compassed with infirmitie he neuer learned of the Church so proudly to speake as that I am able to do this by my Masse Againe if it were true and if the Church did so teache that the Priest is able of his own self without asking leaue to make applications of Christes merits which in dede is not so yet to say that he maie applie al the merites of Christes passion is altogeather impossible For whereas there is no proportion betwen a finite thinge and an infinite the Priest which hath a limited Authoritie and such a power as hath an end how can he stretche it to the distributing of all the merites of Christes death whiche are endelesse and infinite Therefore I saie discharge your selues And concerning that absurditie by which you would encrease your readers indignation against our cause saying that we distribute and applye Christes merites when the parties thinke nothing on the mater that is not so vnreasonable as the vnwise brother would thinke it Whereas the praiers of the English congregation if in dede God accepted them maie procure strength in the Lorde vnto the brothers of France or Germanie although they were either a sleping or drinking It is a shameful parte and ful of infidelitie Apolog. that we see euerie where used in the Churches of our Aduersaryes that they wil haue innumerable sortes of mediatours Innumerable Conf. 12â— This is one plaine lye For the Churche knoweth but two the one when the party which commeth in betweene to entreate and make peace maie by equalytie or Authoritie haue to doe with both of whiche sorte Ihesus Christ alone is a mediatour being perfite God nothing inferiour to his Father and perfite Man nothing disdaining a man The other when by waye of requeste onelie and by intercession the freindes and acquaintaunce of both sides speake a good worde and fauorable for the partie distressed vnable by them selues to commmaunde or woorke anie thing but by the fauor and especiall grace of him whiche hath the better Of this sorte are all the Saintes of heauen aâ—d al good men in earth And poore men can not tell to whiche Saynct it were best to turne them first Apolog. Blessing to your hart that you care for the poore emong whom I neuer hard of anie which was in the doubt of whiche you speake But if it be so in anie it maie quickly be told him that he study not loÌ„g about the mater but praie generally in short wordes and say O all ye Saintes of God pray for me What would these men haue saied Apolog. when in al Councels newe ordres new decrees continually were deuised Marie we would haue stoode to the Catholike CouÌ„cels Confut. 186. in which new Credes from the old were neuer made but the old made more plaine by expounding in plainer words the faith that was before Some of the Fryers Apolog. and Monkes put a greate holynes in eating of fyshe and some in eating of hearbes some in wearing of shewes and some wearing of Sandales some goeing in a linen garment and some in wollen If by some ye meane special persons Confut. .143 I can not tel what nor where When ye name them to vs or wil send your charitable letters to them I warrant you they shal be spoken withal But whereas this appertaineth not to the common cause of the Church or the coÌ„trouersie and questioÌ„ betwene vs what Frier Tucke or Don Roger doe thinke priuatly therefore if by the worde one ye meane the whole orders of Friers and MoÌ„kes and make this sense that some orders of Friers put a great holines in fish aÌ„d some in flesh c. Then doe most shamefully and vilie slander them For S. Bernardan Abbate instructeth his Monkes after this sorte Corporum conuersio si sola fuerit Serm. 2. in capitâ— Ieiunij nulla erit that is the conuersion of the bodies if it be nothing but that it is nothing And by conuerâ—ion of the bodies he meaneth as it foloweth in the sermon the shauing of Monkes the coteÌ„ the Rule of theyr fastes and apointed howres of singing And Petrus a Soto the diuinitie Reader in Oxforth in Quene Maries tymes himself being a Dominican Frier and keeping himselfe faithâ—ully within his order yet he made no such accompt of externall thinges as you falsely sclaunder Monkes and Friers to make But as all learned men doe when they write of the true worshipping of God â–ª so he expresly sayth with the Apostle Tract de instâ— Sac. Iect 5. That Corporal exercise is profitable to little but Pietie and deuotioÌ„ is profitable to al thinges â— Tim. 4. And againe Rom. 14 The kingdome of God is not meate and drinke bâ—t Iustice and peace and ioy in the â—olygost Bring you furth now on the 〈◊〉 side that Religious meÌ„ put an holines in such externall ceremonies or rules aâ— you specifie Zuinglians and Lutherans vary not betwixt them selues vpon the principles fouÌ„dations of our ReligioÌ„ â–ª 〈…〉 God Apolog. 1. nor Christ nor the Holygost nor of the meanes to iustification nor yet euerlasting life but Upon one only question which is neither weighty nor greate Neither mistrust we or make any dout at all But they will shortly be agreed They vary about the body of Christ Confut. â— the one confessing a true presence thereof in the Sacrament The other withstanding it and faining Christe to be present by figure onlie This is one Neither in the Sacrament only doe they differ Nicolaus Gallus in the sibus hypo but also in questions of the law of the Ghopel of iustification and of good workes as Nicolaus Gallus a Lutherane protesteth against them Nowe whether the question of Christes presence be weightie or no let him be iudge whiche heareth Christ saying Nisi manducaueritis Ioan. 6. excepte ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his bloud ye shal not haue lyfe in you c. This is the third This which foloweth I note not as a lie 〈◊〉 as a sensible and vain foly â–ª for the 〈◊〉 theÌ„selues striuiÌ„g euery day more aÌ„d more th' one against th' other aÌ„d as Amsâ—orphiê° a LutheraÌ„ witnesseth their coÌ„tradictioÌ„s beiÌ„g vnable by any possibility to be made agree togeather How ful of vaine hope are you which haue so litle doubt of theyr concorde that ye trust they will be agreed shortly They haue throweÌ„ vs into prison Apolog. into water into fyer and haue embrued themselues in our bloud not because we were either Adulterers or Robbers or Murtherers
your lying and slandering and heare Masse with a good wil and deuotioÌ„ and pray to Saints and pray for the soules departed and obey the B. of Romes authority â–ª Which Bishop at this present is a man so diuine and excellent as appeareth most euidently by his expelling of deuils out of possessed bodies by expelling the Courtesans out of the City by correcting al disorders in the Court of Rome by ê“uidiÌ„g for those partes of Christendome which either haue no Bishops and then he seÌ„deth them some as of late he did into the Indians or had Bishops and enioyed them not in which case he hath sent them home to their Countries that if in deed ye had the miÌ„d to returne to the Catholike Church ye might neuer better doe it than now when the heade therof is so woÌ„derful for his holines fortitude of mind vprightnes and Charitie But ye haue a mad fansie to belye your selues aÌ„d say that ye had no cause to depart from vs if enormities of life wold haue pleased you whereas in deede as loÌ„g as the masse aÌ„d the Pope be regarded you cannot abide our coÌ„panie though the maners of the Catholikes were neuer so well amended Now if ye dare be bolde with your selues and say that ye be so persuaded as ye be not take hede yet what ye report of others and think not it is enough to say it and neuer to proue it that such enormities are with vs in theyr chiefe pride and prince Paule the fourth not many monethes sence Apolog. had at Rome in prison certain Augustine friers many Bishops a greate nuÌ„bre of other deuout mâ—n for religions sake he racked them and tormeÌ„ted them The truth is Con. 171 he caused a Publike Edict to be made charging all such as were gone out of their religion and habite to returne againe to their house and Order This coÌ„maundement preuailed with many which coÌ„sidering their dissolute liues came willingly vnder obedience and order Others which passed not for the Popes commaundement or their former vowe being apprehended were put in prison that vexation might geue them vnderstanding and that disobedience shoulde not escape vnpunished euen in their bodyes As for racking and tormenting them that is one and that many Bishops were so handled that is an other or that they suffred for religioÌ„s sake and not for their owne disobedience that is a third fowle lye Although we be not the men we ought and professe to be Apolog. yet whosoeuer we be compare vs with these men and euen our owne life and innocencie will sone proue vs true and condemne their malicious surmises Concerning your liues Con. 127 the greate adoe which yow make for wiues proueth what gift of continencie is emong yow And they being in deede no wiues but concubines either one synne defended and mainteined draweth not an other with it which is iâ—possible either els one maie iustly collecte and gather that in the other maters besides incontinency ye be not innocent I reporte me also to your rayling vpon the Pope whom ye knowe not Your belying of honest men which yet liue Your slaundring of whole orders and companies either vpoÌ„ heare-say only or for the peculiar faults of some fewe persons c. Call ye this innocency Let the world iudge where more disordre of life is emong Catholikes or heretikes We haue ouerthroweÌ„ no kingdom Apolog. we haue decayed no mans power or ryght we haue disordered no common welth Confut. 173. The hundred thousand bandes of Germanie which by tumult and vprore armed themselues against the nobility and died al in it be witnesse against you The Duke of Saxony and Lant graue of Hesse he witnesses against you because they stoode in field against Charles the v. whom ye can not denie to haue bene theyr true Soueraigne and Emperour The Sacramentarie Zuitzers of Berna who robbed the Duke of Sauoie of his townes and CouÌ„tryes from the farder side of the Lake of Geneua vnto the Alpes they shal be brought against you Geneua it selfe which is neither in the power of the Duke of Sauoie nor vnder theyr lawefull Archebishoppe but hath taken all iurisdictions from them into her owne handes maie proue somewhat against you The Hugonotes of Fraunce your brothers and others in Scotland which haue and doe yet continue in theyr rebellious stomakes and enterprises shal testifye that some mans ryghte is decayed by you But if you thinke all these witnesses to be farre of and that they can not be well examined aske I praie you and I thinke ye shall finde that the Brothers of Englande haue furthered the cause of the Hugonotes of France and Knokes men in Scotland And to be shorte goe into your owne bosomes and consider what compassion ye haue ouer the afflicted congregation of the lowe couÌ„tries where theyr coÌ„spiracies and enterprises are so clearlie betraied and broken Or consider what ioye ye haue had in it when not only against lawful Authoritie but also common honestie and order they spoiled Monasteries expelled the Religious threwe doune Churches and plaied other suche parts as sprites of hel doe sometymes in greate tempestes The B. of Rome to fede his ambitioÌ„ greedines of rule Apolog. hath pulled in peeces the Empire of Rome and vexed and rente whole Christendome a sunder Merciful God Con. 17â— what meane ye Are ye offeÌ„ded that the empire was placed in the Weast to the defence of ChristeÌ„dom And the suppressiÌ„g of the LoÌ„bards power which theÌ„ was greuoê° to Italy doth that of fend you Charles the greate so blessed and valiant a Prince shal his actes not onlie be called nowe into question but vtterly be condemned through you If you cal this a pulling of the state in peeces that an Emperour was set vp in the Weast because the Emperour of the East was both vnable and vnready to helpe the Weast church theÌ„ is this present Emperour with al his predecâ—ssours gilty of vniust possessioÌ„ aÌ„d accessory to the Popes ambition as you terme it For if at the beginning the title was not good he can not with safe conscience abide in it And if that were pulling the Empire in peeces you perchaunce wil set it together againe and helpe to put doune the Emperour now liuing with al that state that ye maie make al ful and perfite as it was vnder one Emperour ouer the whole Againe he did not feede his ambition being as great in authoritie before as after Neither pulled he it in peeces but where ther was no whole aÌ„d good peece left there he placed a perfite state of gouernement And it lacked so much that al Christendome was rent a sondre by it that except by that meanes prouision had ben made for defence of the Church the Lombardes euen at those daies and the Turke sense that tyme had spoiled and rent al ChrisÌ„tendome He put Chilpericus the French king being no cuil prince Apolog. beside his realme only
by the name Apolog. of the highest Prelate the vniuersall Bishoppe or the head of the Churche S. Hierome ad Damasum Con. 247 The Councel of ChalcedoÌ„ â–ª and Victor de persequutione Vandalica these haue geauen the for sayd titles vnto the Bishoop of Rome Which of them euer sayd that both the swordes were committed to you Apolog. S. Bernard saiteth it lib. 4. de consideratione ad Eugenium Con. 247 Whiche of them euer sayed that you haue an Authority to cal Councels Apolog. There folowe a broune dosen moe of such which of them Con. 248 Which either nede no aunswer because the Catholik Church hath no suche Articles as you aske question of Or because it is not bound to answer euerie gentleman controllers busie questions although it be able either by expresse Authoritie or els by necessarie consequence to declare good and sufficieÌ„t cause and reason for euery thing that it aloweth But touching this present question Socrates Hist. Tripart lib. 4. ca. 9. doth plainely testifie against you What one error haue they amended From what kind of Idolatry haue they reclaimed the people Apolog. Here is a suspicioÌ„ reised of more thaÌ„ one error Con. 291. aÌ„d of more thaÌ„ one kind of Idolatry to be in the church and ther is no ê“batioÌ„ annexed to ê“ue that which is sayd But herein your bliÌ„dnes aÌ„d ignoraÌ„ce doth vtter it self that ye know not what is truth aÌ„d right worshippiÌ„g of God which obiect errors aÌ„d Idolatry to th'church of God in which church the techer of truth th' holy Ghost Ioan. 14â— is alwaies presideÌ„t and shal be vnto the worlds end Again if you coÌ„sider what hath ben don of late in general couÌ„cels aÌ„d what is don daily both by pÌ„ching aÌ„d writing against euil life and heresy you can not iustly find fault with the heades of the Churche as though they had no regard what the people did beleue and folowe Then further I say if you willo biect ignorance vnto the Catholykes that they knowe not what is true Religion then doth it remaine that you tel your owne mindes and answer theyr Confutations and Replies Before which tyme to insulte vpon them and to crowe out a lowde from what kinde of Idolatrie haue they reclaimed the people is to triumphe before the victorie and to goe merelie awaie with the sentence whiles the mater is a hearing yet in the consistorie But if you obiecte this crime to the Catholikes that they knowe wel inough what Idolatrie is and see the kindes of it and yet reclaime the people from no kind thereof this trulie is so heighnous and so vile a fault that ye shoulde haue euidentlie proued it before ye had so artificiallie concluded it For a plaine answere to whiche fowle suspition let any reasonable maÌ„ be iudge whether it be lykelie and possible that they which with great paines and daunger of bodie haue prouided verie Idolatours in deede to be conuerted vnto our faith would wittingly suffer an Idolatry to be at home before theyr eies aÌ„d yet not take a litle paine to opeÌ„ theyr mouth but once against it The FraÌ„ciscans and they of the societie of Ihesu haue and dâ—e take exceding greate paines about the barbarous people in the East and Weast India and with hazard of theyr temporal lyfe they venter to bring the Infidels to the knowledge of the life euerlasting Therefore surely it is bysides al reason and likelyhod that of so manie of the same order and profession as liue here in Europe emong vs no one should be fouÌ„d so honest so hardy or so faithful as to reclaime the people from theyr Idolatrie if anie were in them at all Why doe they so vncourteously or with such spite Apolog. leaue Princes out as though they were not either Christen meÌ„ or els could not iudge will not haue theÌ„ made acquainted with the cause of Christian Religion nor vnderstand the State of theyr owne Churches And why doe you so openly and so licentiously râ—yse a fowle suspition Con. 297 against the Cleargie where no cause is The teÌ„poral princes are solemly warned before of the general councel when soâ—uer it is to be kept Theyr Legats haue honorable and meete places for them in the Couâ—cel house that they may not be ignorant of that which is done in debating and examining the cause of religioÌ„ They be humbly and hartly thanked for theyr helpes and assistance and presence made in the cause of the Churche They be sent home with peace And say you that princes are so lefte out as though they were no Christen men whose Embassadours you maie vnderstand to be interteyned and vsed so honourably What ys the Pope Apolog. I praie you at this daye other than A Monarche Or A Prince Or what be the Cardinals who must be none other nowe but princes and Kinges Sonnes We neuer hearde anie wyse man call Con. 299 the Pope A Monarche But a Prince he is in deede either as the worde Prince maie signifie the Chiefe in all Priestelie function either as it signifieth a man so indued with Temporalties that he maie worthely be a Kinges felow But saie you what other is he than a Monarche or a Prince As who shoulde thinke that he sate imperiallie vnder his clothe of Estate and hearde Embassadours out of all quarters of the world and gaue kingdomes or toke them awaie at his pleasure and after such maters of weight dispatched then that he went to hunting hauking plaieing dauÌ„sing feasting c. as worldely Princes doe For such a thing do the coÌ„moÌ„ people imagine a Monarche or prince to be one that ruleth al and liueth in al pleasure That you therfore may be corrected of your lie aÌ„d the simple Reader of his error I say that the Pope is no Monarche at al. And I confesse boldly that he is a Prince by reason of the Temporall and greate IurisdictioÌ„ which he hath ouer S. Peters patrimonies but as Pius the fifthe that now liueth did answer agreably to his holines and wisdom Licet Princeps sum antiquius tamen Pastoris quà m principis nomen agnosco so to say the like in English I geue you to vnderstand that although the Pope be a prince yet he acknowledgeth and taketh the office of a Pastor to be the more former and principal with him than the Office of a Prince By this office then of a pastour he gouerneth and fâ—deth his flocke he sendeth non residents home to theyr cure he apointeth out Preachers and Bishopes for the new found lands he calleth CouÌ„cels endeth CouÌ„cels wheÌ„ it shal please him he goeth in visitatioÌ„ as this last yere he did through althe parish churches of Rome he excommunicateth such as wil not repent as he doth Courtesanes expelling them bodyly also out of the Citie he succoureth such as wil conuerte for which purpose his predecessor Pius the fourth of blessed memorie built a peculiar Cloister
aduersaries we proue that these three be so with vs that they are not with them it is vnreasonably and impudently set furth in print where he that will may iudge of it that we should be of any other minde than can be proued by euidence of some externall signes We are come to that Church Apolog. wherin they themselues can not denie if they will say truely and as thei think in their owne conscience but all thinges be gouerned purely and reuerently and as much as we possibly could very nere to the order vsed in the olde tyme. Here againe our owne conscience is brought furth against vs Conf. 269 as though thei did see by their sprite what we thinke in wardly though we outwardly shew all signes to the contrary Many Catholikes liue out of their Countrie other many lye in prison within their Country some write whole bookes against the procedings And al I thinke doe speake against them when they may do it without daunger of displeasure What should we doe more to declare that the newe Gospel is damnable Yet al this notwithstanding we thinke in our conscience say the Authors of the Apology that al thinges be gouerned purely and reuerently emong them c. Haue they any honesty which set such faces vpoÌ„ maters Let vs see in al that while of the first syxe moneths in which the Councel sate at Trente of so many Apolog. so manifest so often confessed of them and so euident errors what one errorhaue they amended But what are they first Con. 291. that we may knowe them These men vse of course Apolog. to denie all thinges be they neuer so cleere yea the very same which they presently see and beholde with theyr owne eyes This lye is of the same sute with his foresaied felowes Conf. 317. because it layeth such thinges to our charge as our doeinges proue to be most false and incredible For al the Scriptures we haue receiued and excepte we had commended them no protestant could euer haue trusted them The old Councels and Fathers we more esteme than Protestantes doe we refuse no laufull testimonie of any age That which we see with our eyes we do neuer deny though we vnderstand such thinges as come vnder our senses otherwise than the heretikes doe To whom therefore may I compare these Aduersaries which wil make vs beleue that we see well inough that which we do deny and sometimes denie that which we do see I thinke they are disposed only to make sporte aÌ„d so to plaie in maters of religion like as idel speÌ„ders of theyr wit and time doe in the deuising of mad mery games For when halfe a dosen such are agreed togeather one of them for example laieth handes vpon a quiet man that passeth by And whyle the innocent looketh backe vpon him in commeth an other that helpeth to holde him so fast as though it should be for the kings auantage to haue such a one made sure With that he that without cause is so apprehended wondreth at the matter aÌ„d asketh what they meane aÌ„d stretcheth his power to break away froÌ„ them But he begiÌ„neth no soner to resist but straitwaies they cry helpe Sirs helpe for the Lordes sake this felow is mad see how his colour chaungeth see how he panteth c. And with that the rest of the brotherhoode sore moued with bitter compassion make in to him and for lacke of other sprites there they possesse him and holde him and crie vnto him and kepe such a sturre about him as is able to bring many a man halfe out of his wittes and to perswade with other that stande by and consider the thing that vndoutedly the felow that suffreth the violence is mad and not that they which goe so sadly and constantly to the holding of him should be any thing madde After which sorte if the Authors of the Apologie haue concluded to cry out vpon vs that we can not denie that we knowe in our owne conscience that we knowe for a truth such and such thinges as we lay against them to be false and if they will needes enforce it vpon vs that we can not deny but all thinges are gouerned purely and reuerently amonge them what remedy but patieÌ„ce and to suffer them to cary vs into Bedlem with so many holy and learned men our forefathers as already they haue condemned if they will not be answered with our open confession in worde and deede But if this be vnreasonably done of them to burden vs with such a Conscience as can not be gathered of any our external acte Iudge thou Indifferent Reader whether this be not properly facing of a lye The 10. Chapiter conteining the Problematicall or Hypotheticall lyes with how then what ifs and put case Not so impudent and open faced as other but not vnworthy to be noted and no lesse shameful than the worst of all But I put case Apolog. an Idoll be set vp in the Church of God And the same desolation which Christ prophesied to come stand openly in the holy place It should not long continue Con. 192. I beleue to graunt your case For wheÌ„ Antichrist him selfe shal come he shal be quickelie destroied and neuer haue any successour openlie to syt in his Chaire after him What if some theefe or Pirate inuade and possesse Noes Arke Apolog. I thinke the Arke woulde sinke Conf. 192 And whereas God him self keepeth the Arke his Church and prouideth it to be a place of safety in which the iuste seed shall be preserued to let a Pirate and Theefe to possesse the Arke were as muche to graunt as to lette there be no honestie no Faith no laufull Authoritie in the Church Yea it is as much to saie as I put the case there were no God Howe then if I call furthe those for witnesses Apolo whom them selues haue vsed to honour What if I saie that Adriane the Bishop of Rome did fraÌ„kly confesse that all those myscheefes braste out first frâ—â— the hygh throne of the Pope Mary ye lie Con. â—06 if ye saie so But howe then yf Zwenkeseldius make exclamation on the other syde Apolog. and 〈◊〉 that the same verie wordes be not 〈◊〉 but Hosius owne wordes If he will be so wise as to recall his owne woordes Con. 217 the Churche is mercifull to al that repent If he wil be so desperat as to denie that which is in sighte that shal helpe him nothing in theyr iudgmeÌ„t which knowe Hosius to be a Catholike But howe if the thinges which these men are so desyrous to haue seeme new Apolog. be founde of greateste Antiquitie Contrariwyse howe if all thinges well nie whiche they so greately sette out with the name of Antiquitie hauing bene well throughly examined be at length founde to be but newe and deuised of verie late Verely they wil be strange cases Con. 230. when any suche fall But I
for thee â—eter I haue praied that thy faith should not â—aile and thou being once turned confirme thy bretherne Againe to S. Peter he committeth his whole flocke saying Ioan 21. feede my lambes fede my sheepe To S. Peter then as the singularly chosen the promises are made and the priuileges are by praier obtained aÌ„d the charge by expresse worde is committed Nowe for confirmation of these wordes consider the effectes that haue folowed what heresie was euer mainteined by the See of Rome What question was there euer in the Church of Christ and not referred to that See and determined or pacified by it What See hath continued in al tempestes but onlie the See of Rome Who can shewe theyr succession from the Apostles but onlie the Bishopes of Rome What See is preferred in the writinges of holy Fathers but the See of Rome onlie That is the Chaire vnto which perfidiousnes can haue no accesse 〈…〉 That is the chaire of vnitie in which God hath put the doctrine of veritie 〈…〉 That is the Chaire in which euill men are constrayned to speake good thinges that the faith of the Christians may be out of doubt with them whiles it shall depend vpon the infallible promises of God and not vpon the deceiptful coniectures of men This Churche therefore being the Church which we cal Catholik in which the chiefe Master of the worke laied S. Peter as the first stone next to himselfe and in which there is a continual rew of Bishops one vpon an other to the meruelous strengthning and beautifieng of the whole building against which Church it is impossible that any wind or weather should so preuaile as it might ouerturne it for it is builded vpon a sure Rocke in which Church also there is the presence of the Holyghost sent of our Sauiour to teach it all truth and to tarie with it for euer these thinges being most euident and consequent what a blaspheâ—ouse lye is it to say that Christ hath told longe before that this Churche should erre For what other thiÌ„g is that to say but to blaspheme either the wisedoÌ„ of God as though he had not erected a church that should not erre or his power as though he could not bring it to passe or his Charitie as though he would not or his veritie as though he had not sayed poynting to S. Peter Math. 1â— vpon this Rock I wil build my Churcâ—e and againe I haue prayed for thee Peter Luc. 22. that thy Faith might not faile But for this tyme this is inough to note only the blasphemie he that wil see is more largely betraied and conuinced let him reade Doctor Saunders booke lately set furth of the Rocke of the Church The 12. Of the Contradictions Martin Luther Hulderycke Zuinglius Apolog. â—74 a being most excellent men euen sent of God to geue light to the worlde firste came vnto the knowledge of the Gospell ERgo before their tyme Confut. ther was a generall darknes in the world I wysse it is not so harde a matter to find out Gods Church Apolog. .24 for the Church of God is set vpoÌ„ an hill glistering place Ergo Luther and Zuinglius could not be the first that shoulde see the Church Confut. except either Christ had no Church at all in the world wheÌ„ Luther was borne or except a Citie set vpon an hil and for that purpose vndoubtedly sette that it might be sene should not yet be sene before Luther came in with his lanthorn We saye we haue no meede at all Apolog. 125. by our owne workes and dedes Ergo it booteth not to labour Confut. except it be for nothing God hath plucked vs out from the power of darknes Apolog. 225. to serue the liuing God to cut away all the remanents of synne and to worke out Saluation in feare and trembling Ergo that is not without some meede and rewarde Confut. by which we worke our saluation Our Aduersaries must be heaued froÌ„ their mother Apolog. 194. that is from this vaine coloure and shadow of the Church Ergo ye should vtterly dâ—spise the Church Confut. especially as it is now if yoâ—r aduersaries mother be of no substance but a vaine colour only To say truely Apolog. 192. we doe not despise the Chuâ—che of these men how so euer it be ordered by them now adayes â—rgo the Catholiks Church is no vaine colour of a Church Confut. seing that your selues dare not despise it 〈◊〉 popes had neuer hitherto leisure to 〈…〉 and earnesâ—â—â—e of those matters Apolog 19. 〈◊〉 some other cares do let them and â—iuers waies pul them Item â—61 they compt these thinges to be but coÌ„mon and trifling studies and nothing to appertaine to the Popes worthines Ergo being so carelesse Confut. they would neuer haue perceiued the case of their Religion nor procured men to defend it There haue ben wylily procured by yâ— Bishop of Rome Apolog. certaine persons of eloquence inough and not vnlearned neither which should put their helpe to this cause now almoste despaired of Item In deede they perceyued that their owne cause did euery where goe to wracke Ergo it appeareth Confut. that the Popes haue had care of the cause of Religion In this point that is lifting vp the Sacrament consisteth nowe all theyr Religion Apolog 250. Ergo al is not in salt Confut. water c. In these thinges they meane salt water Apolog. 255. Oyle spittle Palme they haue set all their Religion Ergo all is not in lifting vp the Sacrament Confut. What fault haue they once acknowledged and confessed Apolog. 209. Why burden ye then vs with not amending manifest and ofte confessed faultes Confut. Of so many Apolog 291. so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident errours what one haue they amended Why aske you then Confut. what faulte we haue once confessed For so much as we were most ascertened of God his will Apolog. 327. and compâ—ed it a wicked thing to be careful and ouercuÌ„bred about yâ— iudgments of mortal men Therefore ye should haue neuer called a Synode of mortal men Confut. Yet it foloweth Therefore we thought good to remedie our Churches by a prouincial Sinod Apolog. But what neded a remedy by a Synod Confut. if mortal mens iudgmentes are not to be cared for Our cause against the wil of Emperoures from the beginning Apolog. .15 against the willes of so many Kinges in spite of the Popes and almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encreace c. You neuer nede then Confu to aske leaue that your Gospel may procede if it be so victorious and triumâ—hant that maugre the head of al men almost it take encrease Let them geue the Ghospell free passage Apolog 133. let the trueth of Ihesu Christ geue his clere light