had been then but on his way to Ephesus which is a narrow point of time it is more then propable if Timothy had been then at Ephesus he would have said Tychicus have I sent to thee to Ephesus CHAP. 39. A Reply to his 39. Chap. Discusser BVt from this place in Timothy 2 Tim. 2.25 in particular I argue thus 1. If the Civill Magistrates be Christians or Members of the Church able to prophesie to the Church of Christ then they are bound by this command of Christ to suffer opposition to their Doctrine with meeknesse and gentlenesse waiting if God peradventure will give them Repentance So also it pleaseth the Answerer to acknowledge in these words It becometh not the spirit of the Gospel to convert Aliens to the Faith such as the Samaritans and unconverted persons whether in Ephesus or Creete with Fire and Sword Defender The Answerer is still of the same mind though he might strike in upon the advantage that if the Magistrate be also a Prophet he may doe some things as a Magistrate which he may not doe as a Prophet yet he willingly acknowledgeth that if a Magistrate be also a Prophet yea whether he be a Prophet or no he ought not to seeke to subdue and convert Aliens to the Faith by Fire and Sword Discusser Secondly if the Oppositions be within and the Church-members become scandalous in Doctrine I speake not of scandalls in the Civill State which the civill Magistrate ought to punish It is the Lord onely as the Scripture in Timothy implyeth who is able to give them Repentance and to recover them out of Satans snare c. It is true the civill Sword may make a whole Nation of Hypocrites as the Lord complaineth Isay 10. and as befell our Native Country in a few scores of yeares in the severall Reignes of Henry 7. Henry 8. King Edward Queen Mary Queene Elizabeth under whom our Nation was as ready to change the fashion of their Religions as of their Suits of Apparell which hath been their sinfull shame Defender If Opposition rise from within from the Members of the Church I doe not beleive it to be lawfull for the Magistrate to seeke to subdue and convert them to be of his mind by the civill Sword But rather to use all spirituall meanes for their conviction and conversion But if the Opposition still continue in Doctrine and Worship and that against the vitals and Fundamentalls of Religion whether by Heresie of Doctrine or Idolatry in Worship and shall proceed to seeke the Seduction of others I doe beleive the Magistrate is not to tolerate such opposion against the Truth in Church-members or in any Professours of the Truth after due conviction from the word of Truth Nor is it an Objection of any weight that neither the Magistrate nor his Sword can give Repentance unto such For neither can he give Repentance unto such persons as are scandalous to the civill State whom yet notwithstanding the Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth the civill Magistrate ought to punish Though the civill Sword should not make the opposers Hypocrites yet better tolerate Hypocrites and Tares then Bryars and Thornes In such cases the civill Sword doth not so much attend the conversion of wicked Seducers as the prevention of the seduction of honest minds by their meanes What the Kings and Queens of England have done in former or later times either by violent Persecution of the Truth or in preposterous maintenance of the Truth we have cause rather to bewaile it and so hath the Discusser too if he be an English man then to justifie it as also bewaile the like vanity justly complained of in sundry of our English Nation to be as ready to change the fashion of their Religion as of their Rayment And yet he cannot be ignorant that the Lord hath chosen to himselfe sundry faithfull witnesses out of that Nation who have continued stedfast unto the death in the Profession of the Truth and have not been carried away either with the feare of civill Sword or with the deceitfull insinuations of unstable but seducing Teachers to depart from the simplicity and Truth of the Gospel But howsoever wofull and wonderfull changes have been made of Religion in England in the Reigne of foure or five Princes yet it is no more then befell the Church of Judah in the dayes of Ahaz and Hezekiah Manasseh and Josiah yet the Prophets never upbraided them with the civill Magistrater Power in causes of Religion as the cause of it Better some vicissitudes in Religion then a constant continuance in Idolatry and Popery by Princes referring all causes of Religion to Church-men The Prophecie of Englands Revolt againe to Popery wanteth Scripture Light CHAP. 40. A Reply to his Chap. 40. Discusser BVt it hath been thought and said shall Oppositions against the Truth escape unpunished will they not prove mischievous I answer as before concerning the blind Guides their case being incurable is rather to be lamented since none but the right hand of the Lord in the meeke and gentle Dispensing of the word of Truth can release them c. Defender So it is with all scandalous offenders against the civil State none can give them healing Repentance but the right hand of the Lord Jesus in the dispensing of the word of Truth yet that doth not restraine Magistrates from executing just Judgement upon them So neither doth it restraine them from executing the like just Judgement against these though not to procure the Repentance of incurable obstinate Hereticks and Idolaters yet to prevent the seduction and subversion of others What though a dead soule though changed from one Worship to another like a dead man shifted into severall suites of Apparell cannot please God Heb. 11.6 And what though Faith be that gift which proceedeth alone from that Father of Lights Phil. 1.29 Yet better a dead soule be dead in body as well as in Spirit then to live and be lively in the flesh to murder many precious soules by the Magistrates Indulgence And better he die without Faith then to live to seduce many honest minds to depart from the Faith Discusser I adde a civill Sword hardneth the followers of false Teachers by the sufferings of their false and Antichristian Seducers And secondly it begetteth in them an Impression of the falshood of that Religion which cannot uphold it selfe but with such Instruments of violence and wanteth the soft and gentle commiseration of the blindnesse of others Defender A civill Magistrate ought not to draw out his civill Sword against any Seducers Whether Hereticks or Idolaters till he have used all good meanes for their conviction and thereby clearely manifested the bowels of tender commiseration and compassion towards them But if after their continuance in obstinate Rebellion against the Light he shall still walke towards them in soft and gentle commiseration his softnesse and gentlenesse is excessive large to Foxes and wolves But his bowels are miserably straitned and hardned
and rule a thousand yeares Revel 20.4 Shall their freedome from persecution be a dissolution of the Church-Estate The like may be said of the New Jerusalem the Churches of the Jewes after the destruction of Gog and Magog when God shall wipe away all teares from their eyes and take away Death violent Death sorrow crying and paine Rev. 21.4 shall they then cease to be Churches when persecution ceaseth Beside to persecute is not alwayes a marke of a false Church for then it would be a marke of a false Member of a Church or a marke of a Member of a false Church but the contrary appeareth in the example of Asa who persecuted the Prophet of God for his holy Message sake 2 Chron. 16.10 And it hath been shewed above that Stephen complaineth of the persecution of all the Prophets Acts 7.51 And if they were persecuted it was by the Church of the Old Testament and if therefore the Church of the Old Testament was false God had then no Church extant upon the face of the Earth It is therefore a begging of the Question to affirme that those Churches cannot be truly Christian who by themselves or by the Civill power of Kings doe punish such as dissent from them or are opposite against them And indeed a double begging of the Question it is For 1. It beggeth that for the Question which is not the Question for it is no Question but out of Question that it is not lawfull for a Christian Church to punish men for dissenting from them or being opposite to them But the Question is whether Christian Magistrates may not punish Apostate Hereticks and Seducers not for dissenting from the Church but for seducing from Christ and blaspheming against his Name And if you will whether the Church may not stirre up the Christian Magistrate after all milder helps used without a vaile to doe his Duty in such a case 2. It is another begging of the Question to take that for granted which is not yet proved that it is a marke of no true Christian Church to procure the civill punishment of incurable obstinate Hereticks and Seducers Discusser When the Answerer saith that to Excommunicate an Heretick is not to persecute I answer If the Answerer were throughly awaked from the Spouses spirituall slumber Cant. 5. and had recovered from the Drunkennesse of the great Whore who intoxicateth the Nations Rev. 17. It is impossible that he should so answer For who questioneth whether to excommunicate an Heretick be to persecute Excommunication being of a spirituall nature a sentence denounced by the word of Christ Jesus the spirituall King of the Chureh and a spirituall killing by the two edged Sword of the Spirit in delivering up the person Excommunicate unto Satan Therefore who seeth not this Answer cometh not neere the Question Defender I must still professe my selfe to be one of them that see it not For first the Author of the Letter did no where expresse himselfe to put any difference neither between Church and Court in point of censure for cause of Conscience nor between causes of Religion whether true or false If it be unlawfull to banish any from the Common-wealth for cause of Conscience it is unlawfull to banish any from the Church for cause of Conscience The Church ought to be more tender of the Liberty of Conscience then the Court as being more acquainted with the tendernesse of Conscience Secondly if the censure of a man for cause of Conscience by the civill Sword be persecution it is a farre greater persecution to censure a man for cause of Conscience by the Spirituall Sword by how much the more sharp and keen the spirituall Sword is above the civill Sure I am Christ Jesus reckoneth Excommunication for persecution Luke 21.12 They shall lay their hands on you and persecute you delivering you up to the Synagogues and into Prisons To deliver up into Synagogues is as much persecution as to deliver into Prisons And will the Discusser then say that if Christ had been awakened from his spirituall slumber and from the Drunkennesse of the great Whore it had been impossible he should have accounted Excommunication a persecution Me thinks if a soule were awakened unto spirituall sobriety he should judge it a sorer and a deeper affliction to be bound with spirituall chaines both in Earth and Heaven then to be bound in materiall chaines on Earth onely Discusser But Hilary his complaynt speaketh not to Excommunications but to civill censures Defender Therefore my Answer was to him partly by proportion partly by concession Hilary said the Christian Church did not persecute but is persecuted Whereto I Answered 1. That Excommunication of an Heretick is no persecution and therefore by proportion neither is the civill punishment of an Heretick persecution And the Reason in my words following reacheth both for to persecute is to punish an Innocent But an Heretick is not an Innocent but a culpable and damnable person 2. I answered by concession of Hilaryes words in Hilaries meaning it is true what Hilary saith neither did the Apostles nor may wee propogate Christian Religion by the Sword c. Discusser But a Christian Church doth no more persecute then a Lilly doth scratch thornes or a Lamb pursue and teare the Wolves or a Turtle Dove doth hunt the Hawkes or Eagles or a chast modest virgin fight and scratch like Whores and Harlots Defender If by persecution the Discusser meaneth as it seemeth he doth the infliction of the civill punishments his speech is true and the proportion holdeth civill punishments are as improper for Christian Churches to inflict as for Lillies to scratch Thornes or Lambes to teare Wolves c. But if the Lambes he speaketh of in his comparison were as reasonable as the Lambes of Christ be though they would not themselves pursue and teare the Wolves yet they would runne to their Shepheards and civill Magistrates are the shepheards of all their people to send out their dogs after the Wolves to pursue and teare them I see no reason why the chast and modest eye of a Christian Church should any more spare and pity a spirituall Adulterer that seeketh to withdraw her from her spouse to a false Christ then the eye of an Holy Israelite was to spare and pitie the like Tempters in dayes of old Deut. 13.8 CHAP. 66. A Reply to his Chap. 69. Discusser THe Answer by concession to Hilaryes words may surther be discussed It is true saith the Answerer as Hylary speaketh that neither the Apostles nor we may propagate Christian Religion by the Sword But if Pagans cannot be wonne by the word they are not to be compelled by the Sword Neverthelesse this hindreth not but if they or any other should blaspheme the true God and his true Religion they ought to be severely punished and no lesse doe they deserve who seduce from the Truth to damnable Heresie and Idolatrie In which Answer I observe First his Agreement with Hilary that Christian
the Church be not nursed with poison in stead of milke And in so doing they keepe the first Table Reforme the Church judge in causes Ecclesiasticall Againe If the the same Princes shall bow down to the Church with their faces towards the earth and lick the dust of her feet as the same Text expresseth then they being members of the Church shall be subject also to Church-Censure In one word Princes sit on the Bench over the Church in the offensive Government of the Church yet may themselves being members of the Church be subject to Church-Censure in the offensive Government of themselves against the Rules of the Gospel The Examiner himselfe contesseth that in severall respects He that is a governor may be also a Subject Behold here are severall respects to wit severall objects of Judicature In the Mal-Administration of the Church the Magistrate sitteth as Judge and Governor in the Mal-Administration of a Church-Member-Magistrate contrary to the expresse rules of the Gospel he is subject to the power of Christ in the Church If it be said nay rather The Church is subject to the Magistrate in civill causes and the Magistrate is subject to the Church in spirituall causes I Answer That easeth not the difficulty no more then the other For suppose the Magistrate a Church member live in Incest breake forth into murder and notorious oppression these are all civill causes belonging to the second Table If the Magistrate sit as Judge and supreme Governor in this case then must the Church tolerate him herein to the dishonour of the great Name of Christ to the leavening of the Church and to the perdition of his soule If it be granted that in such a case though civill the Church is bound to deale faithfully with the Magistrate and not to suffer sinne upon him let the like power be granted to the Magistrate to deale faithfully with the Church in the notorious transgressions of the first Table as is granted to the Church to deale with the Magistrate in the notorious transgressions of the second Table and the controversie is ended If any further matter be claimed in making the Supreme Magistrate the Supreme Judge and Governor in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as civill I doe not understand that the Ministers or Churches of Christ are called to acknowledge such a meaning Sure I am the Interpretation of that high stile which godly learned Reynolds made of it in the 10. Chap. of his Conference with Hart It was accepted of the State in the dayes of Queene Elizabeth And the same Interpretation if no more be intended by that stile doth well stand with our defence But wherefore doe I put my Sicle into the Harvest of my Brethren my Brethren who penned that Modell are richly furnished by Christ with ability to defend it I therefore leave it to them whom it cheifly concerneth to maintaine the Truth which themselves have witnessed in that Modell And the Lord Jesus Christ himself the God of Truth who came into the world that he might beare witnesse to the Truth be pleased to beare witnesse from Heaven to his owne Truth and bl … that peace a fraudulent and false peace which the Examiner proclaimeth to all the wayes of falshood in Religion to Heresie in Doctrine to Idolatry in worship to blasphemy of the great Name of God to Pollution and prophanation of all his holy Ordiannces Amen Even So Come Lord Jesus A REPLY TO Mr. VVILLIAMS his EXAMINATION And Answer of the Letters sent to him by JOHN COTTON SUch a Letter to such a purpose I doe remember I wrote unto Mr. Williams about halfe a score yeares agoe But whether this printed Letter be a true Copie thereof or no I doe not know for the Letter being sent so long since and no Copie of it that I can finde reserved by me I can own it no further then I finde the matter and style expressing the judgement which I then had of his cause of Separation and the affection I bare unto his person And for ought I see the Letter doth not unfitly expresse both But how it came to be put in print I cannot imagine Sure I am it was without my privitie and when I heard of it it was to me unwelcome Newes as knowing the truth and weight of Plinies speech Aliud est scribere uni aliud omnibus There be who thinke it was published by Mr. Williams himselfe or by some of his friends who had the Copie from him Which latter might be the more probable because himselfe denieth the publishing of it and it sticketh in my mind that I received many yeares agoe a refutation of it in a brotherly and ingenuous way from a stranger to me but one as I heare well affected to him Mr. Sabine Staresmore To whom I had long agoe returned an Answer but that he did not direct me where my Letter might find him But I doe not suspect Mr. Staresmore nor Mr. Williams himselfe to have published it but rather some other unadvised Christian who having gotten a copie of the Letter tooke more libertie then God alloweth to draw forth a private Admonition to publick notice in a disorderly way But howsoever it was upon the publishing of this Letter Mr. Williams hath taken occasion as is observed by some who are acquainted with the Spirit of the man first to rise up against me the meanest of many in the examining and resuting of that Letter And then as if one Mordecai were too small a morsell to stand forth against all the Churches and Elders in New-England in his Bloudy Tenent And then as if New-England were but an handfull from thence to rise up against the choisest Ornaments of two populous Nations England and Scotland the reverend Assembly of Divines together with the reverend Brethren of the Apology and above them all to addresse himselfe according to his high thoughts to propound Quaeries of high concernment as he calleth them to the High and Honourable Court of Parliament So a Bird of prey affecting to soare aloft getteth first upon the top of a molehill and from thence taketh his rise from Pale to Tree till he have surmounted the highest Mountaines In this apprehension of him they are the more confirmed as having discerned the like frame of Spirit in his former walking amongst us Time was when of all Christian Churches the Churches of New-England were accounted and professed by him to be the most pure and of all the Churches in New-England Salem where himselfe was Teacher to be the most pure But when the Churches of New-England tooke just offence at sundry of his proceedings he first renounced communion with them all and because the Church of Salem refused to joyne with him in such a groundlesse Censure he then renounced communion with Salem also And then fell off from his Ministery and then from all Church-fellowship and then from his Baptisme and was himselfe baptized againe and then from the Lords Supper and
worship and Gods worship was not to be put upon carnall persons as he conceived many of the People to be So by his Tenent neither might Church-members nor other godly men take the Oath because it was the establishment not of Christ but of mortall men in their office nor might men out of the Church take it because in his eye they were but carnall So the Court was forced to desist from that proceeding which practise of his was held to be the more dangerous because it tended to unsettle all the Kingdomes and Common-wealths in Europe These were as I tooke it the causes of his Banishment two other things fell in upon these that hastened the Sentence The former fell out thus The Magistrates discerning by the former passages the heady and turbulent spirit of Mr. Williams both they and others advised the Church of Salem not to call him to office in their Church neverthelesse the major part of the Church made choice of him Soone after when the Church made suit to the Court for a parcell of Land adjoyning to them the Court delayed to grant their Request as hath been mentioned before because the Church had refused to hearken to the Magistrates and others in forbearing the choice of Mr. Williams Whereupon Mr. Williams took occasion to stirre up the Church to joyne with him in writing Letters of Admonition unto all the Churches whereof those Magistrates were members to admonish them of their open transgression of the Rule of Justice Which Letters coming to the severall Churches provoked the Magistrates to take the more speedy course with so heady and violent a Spirit But to prevent his sufferings if it might be it was mooved by some of the Elders that themselves might have liberty according to the Rule of Christ to deale with him and with the Church also in a Church-way It might be the Church might heare us and he the Church which being consented to some of our Churches wrote to the Church of Salem to present before them the offensive Spirit and way of their Officer Mr. Williams both in Judgement and Practise The Church finally began to hearken to us and accordingly began to addresse themselves to the healing of his Spirit Which he discerning renounced communion with the Church of Salem pretending they held communion with the Churches in the Bay and the Churches in the Bay held communion with the Parish-Churches in England because they suffered their members to heare the word amongst them in England as they came over into their native Countrey He then refusing to resort to the Publick Assembly of the Church Soone after sundry began to resort to his Family where he preached to them on the Lords day But this carriage of his in renouncing the Church upon such an occasion and with them all the Churches in the Countrey and the spreading of his Leaven to sundry that resorted to him this gave the Magistrates the more cause to observe the heady unruelinesse of his spirit and the incorrigiblenesse thereof by any Church-way all the Churches in the Countrey being then renounced by him And this was the other occasion which hastened the Sentence of his Banishment upon the former Grounds If upon these Grounds Mr. Williams be ready as he professeth not onely to be bound and banished but also to dye in New-England let him remember what he knowes Non poena sed causa facit Martyrem No Martyr of Christ did ever suffer for such a cause When he feareth not to professe that he did in open Court maintaine the rocky strength of his grounds to the satisfaction of his own and as he saith of other mens Consciences I can but wonder at the rocky flintinesse of his selfe-confidence To give a taste of the rocky strength of his maintenance of these things He made complaint in open Court that he was wronged by a slanderous report up and downe the Countrey as if he did hold it to be unlawfull for a Father to call upon his childe to eate his meate Our reverend Brother Mr. Hooker the Pastor of the Church where the Court was then kept being mooved to speake a word to it Why saith he you will say as much againe if you stand to your own Principles or be forced to say nothing When Mr. Williams was confident he should never say it Mr. Hooker replyed If it be unlawfull to call an unregenerate person to take an Oath or to Pray as being actions of Gods worship then it is unlawfull for your unregenerate childe to pray for a blessing upon his own meate If it be unlawfull for him to pray for a blessing upon his meate it is unlawfull for him to eate it for it is sanctified by prayer and without prayer unsanctified 1 Tim. 4.4 5. If it be unlawfull for him to eate it it is unlawfull for you to call upon him to eate it for it is unlawfull for you to call upon him to sinne Here Mr. Williams thought better to hold his peace then to give an Answer But thus have I opened the grounds and occasions of his Civill Banishment which whether they be sandy or rocky let the servants of Christ judge Howsoever my Letter gave him no occasion at all to put me upon this Discourse for in my Letter I intended only to shew him the sandinesse of those grounds upon which he banished himselfe from the society not of the Common-wealth but of all the Churches in these Countreyes But whether I intended the one or the other he giveth an Answer for both If Mr Cotton meane saith he my own voluntary withdrawing from all these Churches resolved to continue in those evills and in persecuting the witnesses of the Lord presenting light unto them I confesse it was mine own voluntary act yea I hope the act of the Lord Jesus sounding forth in me a poore despised Rams-horne the blast which shall in his own holy season cast down the strength and confidence of the Inventions of men in the worship of God and lastly his act in inabling me to be faithfull in any measure to suffer such great and mightie Tryalls for his Names sake Reply That I meant onely his own act in withdrawing himselfe from these Churches doth plainly enough appeare both from my expresse words and fro mthe Reasons which I expresly assigne of that act of his which I called the sandy grounds upon which he built his Separation My expresse words are He had banished himselfe from the society of all the Churches in this Countrey The society of the Church is one thing the society of the Common-wealth is another And the Grounds upon which he built his Separation were not the causes of his banishment but of his withdrawing from the society of the Churches But if I so meant He confesseth it was his own voluntary act and professeth also it was a double act of the Lord Jesus in him The ground which he giveth of his own voluntary act was because these Churches were resolved
sword of Persecution of such as doe not joyne in worship with him I cannot say that I have sworn but I thanke God I have waded through credit and discredit through evill report and good report as a deceiver and yet true And for profit I have neither abounded in superfluities nor through mercy have been long destitute of necessaries but whether this be a badge of Antichrist and not compatible to the witnesses of Christ I have not yet learned And for smiting with the fist and sword of Persecution if Persecution be affliction for Righteousnesse sake I would willingly learne of the Examiner whom of all the Righteous I have smitten with the fist or wounded with the sword I speake according to his own meaning meaning as I suppose himselfe doth neither bodily fist nor materiall sword but let him then Instance in some one or other that hath felt the heavinesse of my fist or the keennesse of my sword or else let him remember what the Spirit of God hath said Psal 31.18 concerning such as speake bitter things proudly and contemptuously and I also adde injuriously and falsely against those whom himselfe in the next line styleth holy and beloved To the second the Censure which he calleth unrighteous and uncharitable He confesseth it pleased God to bring him neere unto death But his Answer he returneth in two things 1. By deriving the cause of his sicknesse not from his excessive heate in disputing against the testimonies and writings of the Churches and Elders but from his excessive Labours on the Lords dayes and thrice a weeke at Salem by labours day and night in the field with his own hands by travels day and night also to goe and returne from the Court. Reply The Court being held within twelve or fourteene miles distance from Salem travell to and fro was no likely cause of such distemper And whatsoever his Labours were in Towne or Field on the Lords Dayes or weeke dayes I detract not from them but this is all I would say That that sodaine distemper fell not upon him neither in the field at his labour nor on the weeke dayes or Lords dayes in his Preaching but in his vehement publick arguing against the writings and testimonies of the Churches and Brethren sent to him and to the Church of Salem against his corrupt wayes Wherein though I know All things fall alike to all yet if Moses himselfe as well as Balaam meet with a check in his journey from the hand of God I beleeve it is a just call to consider Is there not a lye in my right hand Or is there not an Idol in my heart or doe I goe about the worke of God in a way of God Howsoever it was farre from me to upbraide your sicknesse as your marginall note taxeth but rather to call you to consider of your unprofitable and perverse use of it The second part of his Answer is a Recrimination of the Officer of Justice by whom in this time he was unmercifully driven from his Chamber to a winters flight Reply When he saith in this time if he meane as the words foregoing expresse the time wherein he was neere unto death it is a manifest untruth James Bonne For the Officer of Justice who then was is a man fearing God and of a tender Conscience and who dare not allow that liberty to his tongue which the Examiner often useth in this Discourse He testifieth he then spake with Mr. Williams and that he discerned no signe of sicknesse upon him much lesse of neernesse unto death He testifieth further that upon the mourning complaint of some of Mr. Williams his neighbours who did adhere to him he left onely the Warrant with him but left him in his house to take the time for his departure limited in his warrant which was not that night though he doe not well remember how many dayes were set him But this I have been given to understand that the increase of concourse of people to him on the Lords dayes in private to the neglect or deserting of publick Ordinances and to the spreading of the Leaven of his corrupt imaginations provoked the Magistrates rather then to breed a winters spirituall plague in the Countrey to put upon him a winters journey out of the Countrey Gangraenam amoveas no pars sincera trahatur TO CHAP. IX TO his 9th Chapter I shall not need to returne any large Reply Let him read over my words againe which he examineth and answereth in this Chapter and they may serve for a just Reply unto his Answer so farre as it is needfull Onely let me touch a Passage or two When he saith That after the first manifestation of the countenance of God reconciled in the bloud of Christ unto his soule it hath been with him as with one whom he saith I told him off his Questions and Troubles have not been concerning his Reconciliation and Peace with God but concerning Sanctification c. I would it might please the Lord to perswade his heart that that one of whom I spake to him was but one to whom the Lord dispensed himselfe in that manner and he a man though he suffered much and wrote much yet no where magnified his sufferings nor vilified the Authors of his sufferings A man that cleaved to the Ordinances and Saints of God and not willing to manifest his dissent from his Brethren no not there where he did dissent as willing to attribute more to the judgements of other servants of God then to arrogate to himselfe But surely the ordinary manner of Gods dispensation of himselfe to his servants is otherwise even to those that have been most precious in his sight Job hath sometimes complained that God tooke him for his enemy Job 13.24.26 David sometimes complaineth that he was cut off from before Gods eyes Psal 31.22 And that God sometimes hid his face from him Psal 30.7 That his soule was also sore vexed with the sence of Gods anger and hot displeasure Psal 6.1 3 Asaph also complaineth of the same in Psal 77. and Heman the Ezrahite in Psal 88. and Hezekiah in Isai 38. If the Lord have dealt more indulgently with Mr. Williams he hath the more cause to walke humbly and circumspectly and fruitfully before the Lord which is the worst that I wish him And let him also consider that whilest he liveth under the Sunne himselfe is not exempted from the dangerous Inmate of a deceitfull heart As for Master Smith he standeth and falleth to his own Master whilest he was Preacher to the Citie of Lincolne he wrought with God then what temptations befell him after by the evill workings of evill men and some good men too I choose rather to tremble at then discourse of If I had made use of his Principles and Arguments as this Examiner saith I have it is more then my selfe know for I have not been acquainted with sundry of his writings as being discouraged with that one wherein he maketh
shape of an Answer but as little substance The greatest Question here saith he would be whether the Corinthians in their first Constitution were separate or no from such Idols Temples And this Mr. Cotton neither doth nor can deny A Church estate being a state of marriage unto Christ Jesus and so Paul professedly saith He had espoused them as a chaste Virgin unto Christ 2 Cor. 11. Reply 1. To put any substance into this Answer or any force pertinent to the cause in hand it must be no great Question but cleare out of Question that these Corinthians in their first constitution were cleane and absolutely separate from such Idolls Temples and that not onely locally but in their soule and iudgement minde and heart utterly cut off from such uncleane Touches so that they both undoubtedly saw the evill thereof and from their hearts abhorred it and forsooke it For all these Acts of coming off in a way of separation from the Churches of England he requireth from us as absolutely necessary to enter into a true Church-estate Now if he thinke that Mr. Cotton to use his words neither doth nor can deny that in their first constitution they were thus separate from Idolls Temples I must professe though not to him yet to all that love and seek the Truth without prejudice that I both can and doe deny it that in their first constitution they were locally separate from Idolls Temples it is likely enough or else I suppose the Apostlewould have admonished them thereof in their first Plantation But that in their minde and judgement they saw the evill thereof and did in heart and soule bewaile it and confesse it before the Apostle and their Brethren and so enter into solemne Covenant expresly against it this is altogether incredible to me For would not the Apostle then out of his faithfulnesse have reproved them as well for their Apostacy as for their Fellowship in Idolatry Would he not as well have rebuked the prevarication of their Covenant as their pollution of their communion with Pagans What though a Church-estate be a state of Marriage unto Jesus Christ May not a married Spouse of Christ be ignorant of some part of her marriage-dutie towards him And what though Paul professe He had espoused them as a chaste Virgin to Jesus Christ May not he call them a chaste Virgin who had seene and bewailed their former worship of Idolls though they neither bewailed nor saw the evill of feasting with their neighbours in Idolls Temples Reply 2. Though the Examiner make it a great Question whether a Church can be truely constituted that in her first constitution is not seperate from all uncleane Touches so as both to see them and come out of them howsoever they may fall into such sinnes afterwards yet I looke at it as an ungrounded distinction to require more purity to the being of a Church in her first constitution then is necessary to the being of it after it is constituted I should thinke the longer a Church hath enjoyed communion with the Lord Jesus Christ the more shee ought to grow both in knowledge and purity Where more hath been given the more will be required of the Lord. Yea I conceive it more agreeable to the word of Truth that God will sooner separate from a Church constituted for their whorish pollutions then deny them Church-estate for the like pollutions in their first constitution The people of Israel were not constituted a Nationall Church till the Lord gave them Nationall Ordinances and Nationall Officers and entered them together into a Nationall Covenant Exod. 19.5 6. Their Church-estate before was rather domesticall dispersed into severall Families When they were thus constituted a Nationall Church and afterwards fell into an Idolatrous crime the Lord directed Moses to breake the Tables of his Covenant between them and did also seperate his Tabernacle from them till upon their repentance he renewed communion with them Exod. 32.19 with Exod. 33.3 to 7. But yet the like Idolatry if not worse being found in the same People when they dwelt in Aegypt it did not hinder the Lord from accepting them unto a Nationall Constitution of a Church-estate To CHAP. XVII XVIII XIX HIs 17 18 19. Chapters are taken up in Examining and Answering my Answers to his second Objection which he made to prove a Necessitie lying upon Godly men before they can be fit matter for Church fellowship to see bewaile repent and come out of false Churches Ministery Worship and Government To prove which his first Objection or Argument was taken from Isaiah 52.11 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. Whereto we have returned a Reply in the former Chapters His second Objection was taken from the Confession made by Johns Disciples and the Proselyte Gentiles before admission into Church-fellowship Mat. 3.6 Act 19.18 Whence he gathered That Christian Churcher are constituted of such members as make open and plaine confession of their sinnes and if any sâ—â—â—es be to be confessed and lamented Jewish or Paganish then Antichristian drunkennesse and whoredome much more c. Yea every sipping of the Whâ—res Cup. To which Objection of his to passe by all verball velitations for I love not to take up time about words the substance of my Answer was two-fold 1. That it was not necessary to the Admission of members that they should see and bewaile the sinfulnesse of every sipping of the whores Cup as he called it though the Whores cup doe more intoxicate the minde then the drunkards Cup doth the Body because bodily drunkennesse and whoredome are such notorious and grosse sinnes that no man having true Repentance in him cannot but be convinced of the sinfulnesse of them and of the necessitie of repentance of them in particular if he doe remember them But the whores Cup being a mystery of Iniquitie the sinfulnesse of every sipping of it is nothing so evident and notorious as that every repentant soule doth at first discerne it And therefore as the 3000. Converts Acts 2.37 to 47. were admitted into the first Christian Church upon the Profession of their repentance of the murther of Christ though they neither saw nor confessed all the superstitious leavenings wherewith the Pharisees had bewitched them so here c. Yea and the Disciples of John whom he instanceth in though they did confesse their sinnes the Publicans theirs the Souldiers theirs the People theirs to wit the notorious sinnes incident to their callings yet it doth not appeare that they confessed their Pharisaicall pollutions And the Gentiles in Act. 19.18.19 Though they confessed their curious Arts and burnt their conjuring Bookes yet it doth not appeare that they confessed all their deeds Whereunto the Examiner returneth a two-fold Answer 1. That spirituall whoredome and drunkennesse is not indeed so easily discerned as corporall but yet not the lesse sinfull but infinitely transeendent as much as spirituall sobriety exceedeth corporall and the bed of the most High God exceedeth the beds of men who are but
too much wound his own Conscience with such a generall charge he acknowledgeth That we have borne witnesse against Bishops and Ceremonies and doe constitute onely particular and Independent Churches and have therefore so farre at least seene the evill of a Nationall Church But I dare say further that his own Conscience beareth him witnesse that we have witnessed also both in Profession and Practise against Prescript Liturgies and mixt Communions both in Church-fellowship and at the Lords Table What hath been then wanting to us That we doe not fully see the evill of a Nationall Church How doth he make it to appeare By two Instances By our constant Practise in still joyning with such Churches and Ministery in the Ordinances of the Word and Prayer and by our Persecuting of him for his humble faithfull and constant admonishing of us for such an uncleane walking between a particular Church and a Nationall Reply Our joyning with the Ministers of England in hearing of the Word and Prayer doth not argue our Church-Communion with the Parish-Churches in England much lesse with the Nationall Church as hath been shewed above in Chap. 14. Besides when Jeroboam heard the word from the young Prophet of Judah and joyned with him in Prayer I demand whether in so doing he joyned in Church-Communion with the Nationall Church of Judah If yea then was the Church of Judah pollutedly the uncleane Communion of Idolatrous Jeroboam If not then the Examiner may easily discerne how weake an Argument it is to argue our Communion with the Nationall Church of England from our members joyning in the Hearing of the Word and Prayer in the Parish-Churches of England His second Instance to make it appeare That we see not the evill of a Nationall Church from our Persecuting of him c. In this I choose rather to blame his memory then his conscience But the one of them is much to blame in that it maketh him so farre forget himselfe and the Truth as boldly to avouch a notorious falshood That we Persecuted him for his humble and faithfull and constant admonishing of us of such uncleane walking between a particular Church and a Nationall It is one notable falshood to say that he did constantly admonish either our Elders or Churches of such an offence much lesse humbly and faithfully If he did so admonish us where are his witnesses His Letters his Messengers sent to us Besides It is another falshood and no lesse palpable that we did persecute him for such admonishing of us It hath been declared above upon what grounds the sentence of his Banishment did Proceed whereof this Admonition which he pretendeth was none of them neither did they persecute him at all who did so proceed against him Now whereas in that Passage of the Letter even now recited I said He knew not what Professions we had made in our Churches of our Humiliations for former Pollutions nor had he admonished us of our defects therein He demandeth how be could possibly be ignorant of our estate who had been from first to last in fellowship with us an Officer amongst us had private and publique agitations concerning our estate and condition and at last suffered for such Admonition to us the misery of a Winters Banishment amongst the Barbarians Reply As if every man in fellowship with us an Officer amongst us one that had private and publique agitations with us must needs know what our members professed in their admissions to the Church or what our Elders confessed in their dayes of solemne Humiliation when himselfe was generally absent both on the Lords dayes and on the dayes of solemne fasting Or as if the private and publique agitations that he had with us were taken up about our Communion with a Nationall Church I am yet to learne what Arguments he did propound to us in that cause what convictions he left upon us When he is still so full of the miseries of his winters banishment amongst the Barbarians it maketh me call to minde a grave and godly speech of a blessed Saint now with God reverend Mr. Dod Where sinne lyeth heavy afflictions lyeth light where affliction lyeth heavy sinne lyeth light TO CHAP. XX. THe maine Objection which Mr. Williams made against the Estate of our Church-members was chiefly this That though he acknowledgeth them to be godly yet not sufficiently separate from Antichrist And that he endeavoured to prove 1. From the Texts that call for separation from Babylon Isa 52.2 Cor. 6. Rev. 18.2 From the confession of sinnes made by Johns Disciples Mat. 3. and the Proselyte Gentiles Acts 19. To both these we have returned Answer already His third Objection followeth from Haggai 2.13 14 15. where the Prophet telleth the Church of the Jewes That if a Person uncleane by a dead body doe touch holy things those holy things become uncleane to him And so saith he is this Nation and so is every worke of their hands and that which they offer here is uncleane And from hence he argueth That even Church-Covenants made and Ordinances practised by persons polluted through spirituall deadnesse and filthinesse of Communion they become uncleane to them and are prophaned by them which he solemnely desireth might be advisedly weighed Whereto my Answer was That if he had well weighed this place himselfe he would never have alledged it to his purpose His purpose was to prove that Churches cannot be constituted of such members as are uncleane by Antichristian pollutions or if they be so constituted they are not to be Communicated with but separated from To prove this you alledge said I this place where the Prophet acknowledgeth the whole Church to be uncleane and yet neither denieth them to be a Church truely constituted nor stirreth up himselfe or others to separate from them If you say why but they were uncleane I answered Be it so But were they therefore no Church truely Constituted Or to be separated from Did not Haggai and Zachary themselves Communicate with them And did they not call others also to come out of Babel to Communicate with them even whilest Joshua the High Priest was still polluted with his uncleane Garments Zach. 2.6 7. with Chapt. 3.8 Whereupon I tooke occasion to cleare up to him the occasion and scope and true sence of the words at large as may appeare in the Letter which having gathered up I said That if he did apply it to the Point in hand it would reach nothing neere to his purpose Hypocrites in the Church yea and godly sincere Christians themselves whilest they attend to the world more then to the things of God as at that time the Jewes did both their persons and their labours and their Civill Oblations are uncleane in the sight of God Therefore the Church of Christ cannot be constituted of such or if it doe consist of such the People of God must separate from them You might well have gathered Therefore the Church of Christ and the members thereof must separate
Chapter Onely 2. Things more remaine in this Chapter which may not passe without some touch 1. That he saith Gods People in all their awakenings acknowledge how sleightly they have listned to the checks of their owne Conscience This the Answerer pleaseth to call sinning against Conscience for which he may lawfully be persecuted to wit for sinning against his owne Conscience Wherein there is found a double falshood 1. That he saith I call the sleight listnings of Gods People to the checks of their Conscience their sinning against Conscience For I speake not of the sinning of Gods People against Conscience but of an Heretick subverted turned off from the Foundation much lesse doe I call their sleight listnings to Conscience to be Hereticall sinning against Conscience 2. Least of all doe I say that for such sleight listnings to the checks of Conscience he may lawfully be persecuted to wit as for sinning against Conscience Thus men that have time and leasure at will will set up Images of clouts and then shoot at them The 2. Thing in this Chapter which I said might not passe without some touch is that having fastned upon me a conclusion which is none of mine but an invention of his owne He addeth howsoever it be painted over with vermillion c. yet he hopeth to manifest it to be the overturning and rooting up of the roote of all true Christianity and absolutely denying the Lord Jesus to be come in the flesh Whereto I Reply no more but this If he doe manifest that which Magnanimously he undertaketh It may happyly be also manifested by the helpe of Christ that it will overturne no conclusion of mine But howsoever let him remember it was a proverb in Israel Let not him that girdeth on his Armour boast himselfe as he that putteth it off 2 Kings 20.11 CHAP. 15. A Reply to his fifteenth Chapter touching the admonition and rejection of an Heretick THe first and second Admonitions in the place of Titus were not Civill or corporall punishments on mens persons or purses But they were the reprehensions convictions exhortations and perswasions of the word of the Eternall God charged home to the Conscience in the Name and Presence of the Lord Jesus in the midst of his Church Which being despised and not hearkened unto in the last place followeth rejection which is not a cutting off by heading hanging burning nor an expelling out of the Countrey and coasts but the dreadfull cutting off from the visible head and body Christ Jesus and his Church Spirituall cutting off by Excommunication Defender All this the proofes of this in this Chapter I willingly consent and subscribe unto nor doth this touch any conclusion of mine at all much lesse Discusse or shake it For though I said indeed that for an erroneous and blinde Conscience even in Fundamentall and weighty Points It is not lawfull to persecute any till after Admonition once or twice according to Tit. 3.10.11 Yet in alledging that place to prove that Conclusion I intended no other persecution but the Churches prosecution against such an Heretick by excommunication no syllable in my conclusion looketh at more If it be said but Excommunication or any other Church-prosecution cannot fitly be called persecution Yes verily excommunication is a persecution and a lawfull persecution if the cause be just offence as the Angell of the Lord is said to persecute the wicked Psalm 35.6 But the Excommunication is a cruell and bitter persecution If it be without just cause and due order yea and the more greivous persecution by how much the more greivous it is to a Christian man to be excluded from the Communion of the Saints then to be banished from a civill Society sure it is the Lord Jesus accounteth it a persecution to his Disciples to be delivered up unto the Synagogues and to be cast forth out of the Synagogues Luk. 21.12 with Joh. 16.2 CHAP. 16. A Reply to his sixteenth Chapter touching To leration in Points of lesse moment Discusser For a third Position or Conclusion the Answerer gave this that in things of lesse moment whether Points of Doctrine or Worship If a man hold them forth in a spirit of Christian meeknesse and love though with zeale and constancy he is not to be persecuted but tolerated till God may be pleased to manifest his truth to him This conclusion I acknowledge to be the Truth of God yet 3. things are very observeable in the manner of laying it downe 1. That such a Person may be tolerated till God may be pleased to reveale his truth to him upon the same ground the Apostle calleth for meeknesse and Gentlenesse towards all men and towards such as oppose themselves 2. Tim. 2. because it may be God may give them repentance Hence a soule that is lively and sensible of Gods mercy cannot but be patient and gentle towards the Jewes towards the Turkes yea to all the severall sorts of Anti-Christians yea to the Pagans and to the wildest sort of the Sonnes of men who have not heard of the Father and of the Sonne c. Yea not onely be patient to such but also to pray for such yea and to endeavour their participation of the same grace and mercy Defender This nothing shaketh no nor so much as toucheth our cause or defence we thinke it unlawfull for the Church to censure such as are out of the Church And for the Civill State we know no ground they have to persecute Jewes or Turkes or other Pagans for cause of Religion though they all erre in Fundamentalls No nor would I exempt Anti-Christians neither from Toleration notwithstanding their Fundamentall Errors unlesse after conviction they still continue to seduce simple soules into their damnable and pernicious Heresies as into the Worship of false Gods into confidence of their owne merits for Justification into seditious conspiracyes against the lives and States of such Princes as will not submit their Consciences to the Bishop of Rome Which if the Discusser shall in the sequell pluck off as the silken covering of an Image as he calleth it we shall further attend him Discusser 2. I observe from the Scriptures he quoteth for this Toleration Phil. 3. Rom. 14. how closely yet I hope unadvisedly he maketh the Churches of Christ at Philippi and Rome all one with the Cities of Philippi and Rome c. Defender No such matter I never thought these Scriptures to belong at all to the Cities of Philippi or Rome Paul writeth to both the Churches not only to tolerate but to receive their weake brethren who dissent from them in matters of lesse moment but to the Cities I never read any Epistle of his Who would ever imagine the Discusser should be so farre transported beyond all bounds either of reason or truth or candor as to surmise the Answerer should conceive That what those Churches must not tolerate in their holy communion that the Cities of Philippi and Rome must not tolerate within the compasse
Text in Isai 49.23 Discusser 1. THat place of Isaiah 49.23 will appeare to be farre from proving such Kings and Queenes Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes And if not Judges they may not punish 2. In spirituall things themselves are subject to the Church shall licke the dust of the Churches feet as is there exprest How then shall those Kings and Queenes be Supreame Governours of the Church 3. Gods Israel of old being earnest for a King an Arme of flesh God gave them Saul in his anger and tooke him away in his wrath So God will take away such Princes in his wrath that so as David succeeded Saul so Christ Jesus in his spirituall Power may for ever be advanced Defender Reply 1. We doe not alledge that place in Isaiah to prove Kings and Queenes to be Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes but to be providers for the Churches well-being and protectours of it For so much the very phrase of nursing Fathers and Mothers doth necessarily import But if they be Protectours of the Church and providers of the well-being of it then are they also Defenders of the faith of it so farre as their defence in a way of God is dispensable So Magistrates are also called Shepheards of the people as well as Ministers Ezec. 34. Now it is a part of a Shepheards protection of his sheepe to drive away wolves from sheepe-folds And it is the like part of good Magistrates to drive away false Prophets from the Churches whom our Saviour calleth ravening wolves Matth. 7.15 But saith he Magistrates are not Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes and if not Judges they may not punish Answ There is a three-fold Judgement 1. A Judgement of private spirituall Discretion and so a spirituall man judgeth all things 1 Cor. 2.15 and so may a Magistrate judge also if he be a spirituall man 2. There is Judicium Propheticum A propheticall Judgement whereby the Prophets having received a greater gift of spirituall discerning of the things of God and an office to declare the same doe judge of Doctrins with Authority Let the Prophets judge 2 Cor. 14.29.32 And this the Ministeriall Judgement of the Church but here the Magistrates Judgement doth not interpose as a Magistrate but as a Brother 3. There is Judicium Politicum the Judgement of civill power whereby a Magistrate being called of God to provide that his people may lead a peaceable life in godlinesse and honesty he therefore is called to discerne not onely what is honesty or righteousnes before men but what is godlinesse also before the Lord accordingly judgeth of godly ungodly doctrines practises so far as tendeth to the upholding of publicke Peace For it is evident in the Scriptures of the New-Testament that when Magistrates were so blindly devout and superstitious as to give their Kingdomes unto the Beast as Rev. 17.12 13. and so to tolerate the publicke worship of Images and other Idolls they thereby overthrew the civill Peace of their Common-wealth For to punish their ungodlinesse it was that God opened a way for the Turkes to breake out and destroy the 3d part of Christendome Rev. 9.14 to 21. Reply 2. Both these may well stand together that Magistrates may be subject to the Church and licke the dust of her feet yet be supreame Governours of the Church also In spirituall matters and in the right administration of them the Magistrates are subject to the Church But in civill matters and in corrupt administration of Church-Affaires so farre corrupt as tendeth to the disturbance of civill Peace there the Magistrates are supreame Governours even over Churches also in their owne Dominions Reply 3. It was no sinne in Israel of old to aske a King but to aske him before the time appointed and to aske him in a tumultuous manner with rejection of Samuel and to aske him for carnall and prophane ends that they might be like to all other Nations whom God did not approve they should affect to be like unto Otherwise had they tarried Gods time God had appointed to give them a King out of the Tribe of Judah Gen. 49.10 It is true God tooke away Saul in his wrath but not for exercising civill Power against spirituall wickednesse for he did justly exercise it against Witches but for other well-knowne notorious wickednesse And as for David we doe not reade that he did exercise any spirituall Power as a King but as a Prophet CHAP. 32. A Reply to his Chap. 32. Discusser THough for the present the punishment of corrupt Teachers as the Scribes and Pharises were be deferred yet their waiteth for them an higher pitch of punishment then any Corporall can reach unto As 1. Starke Blindnesse c. 2. Incurable Blindnesse c. 3. Their end is the Ditch c. 4. The Leaders of others into the ditch shall find their owne ruine horrible and the ruine of their followers eternally galling tormenting Defender The Discusser himselfe knoweth and accordingly expresseth himselfe in his next words That it is the like case of all sinners and of all malefactours their punishment in hell will be more horrible and full of torment then can be inflicted in this world And yet the State is often bound to punish them and in many cases by death it selfe Discusser Be it so But what is this to a blind Pharisee resisting the Doctrine of Christ who hapily may be as good a Subject and as peaceable and profitable to the civill State as any c. Defender But what is this to the question in hand we doe not hold it lawfull for a Christian Magistrate to compell by civill sword either Pharisee or any Jew or Pagan to professe the Religion or Doctrine of the Lord Jesus much lesse doe we thinke it meet for a private Christian to provoke either Jewish or Pagan Magistrates to compell Pharises to submit to the Doctrine or Religion of Christ Jesus And therefore all these Chapters from 29. to 35. seven Chapters in all tending to prove that Christs Disciples were to let the Pharises alone in this way are but so many empty flourishes beating the aire playing with a shadow And yet the rest of the Chapters which remaine must not passe without some Advertisement of such passages in them as doe corrupt the truth of Christ How the Pharises can be as good subjects and as peaceable and profitable to the civill State as any who yet destroyed the civill State by destroying Christ let any but a blind conscience judge CHAP. 33. Discusser IT is truth The mischiefe of a blind Pharises blind guidance is greater then if he acted treasons murders c. And the losse of one soule by his seduction is a greater mischiefe then if he blew up Parliaments or cut the throats of Kings and Emperours c. And therefore a firme justice that requires an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth life for life calleth also soule for soule But that no civill sword can inflict but the Lord
tamed unholy holy Christians Antichristians How sad an evidence is this that the soule of the Answerer hath never yet heard the call of the Lord Jesus to come out from those unconverted Churches from that unconverted Antichristian-Christian world c. Defender Reply 1. When we come to those Arguments truly and fairly collected out of this place of Timothy which is not till the next chapter we shall God willing consider what Truth and fairnesse they hold forth which if it be found wee shall consider whether they be of force against the Truth witnessed by me In the meane time for Answer to his demand what I should meane by the unconverted Christian in Creete Answ I must take it upon his credit that I spake at all of any unconverted Christian in Creete Mine owne copy is not extant with me And the Transcript which with much seeking I found hath it instead of unconverted Christians in Creete unconverted persons in Ephesus As indeed Timothy was left at Ephesus when Paul wrote to him his first Epistle as is evident 1 Tim. 1.3 and Titus it was who was left at Creete Tit. 1.5 But whether Timothy was then at Ephesus when Paul wrote his second Epistle to him is not so certaine But wheresoever he was as being an Evangelist he was not limited to a certaine place doubtlesse there wanted not unconverted persons amongst whom the Members of the Church lived Yea but they were not unconverted Christians for it is as much as unconverted Converts c. Answ It must lye upon the Discussers credit whether I used at all such a phrase or no sure I am I cannot hitherto after much seeking find mine owne hand-written copy which might cleare the mistake both of Creet for Ephesus and unconverted Christians for unconverted Persons But let it not seeme strange to him to heare tell of unconverted Christians or unconverted Converts There is no contradiction at all in the words When the Lord saith that Judah turned unto him not with all her heart but fainedly Jer. 3.10 Was she not then an unconverted Convert converted in shew and profession but unconverted in heart and Truth Let him then consider his own phrase here misapplyed whether this be the Language of Canaan or the Language of Ashdod Jeremies Language is the Language of Anathoth not of Ashdod Reply 2. If the Discusser looke at it as a true but sad experience of my unconverted estate from unconverted Churches and that the Lord Jesus never yet called me to come out of them because I speake if I doe so speake of unconverted Christians living amongst them I must be contented still to lie under that imputation from him I never knew that Church yet nor ever read of it in which there was not or at least might not be found some unconverted Christians unconverted Converts Judas was found in Christs Family Ananias and Sapphira in the Apostolick Primitive Church Balaam and the Nicholaitans were found in Pergamus and Jesabel in Thyatira Besides I have not yet learned nor doe I thinke I ever shall that the children of beleiving Parents borne in the Church are all of them Pagans and no Members of the Church or that being Members of the Church so holy that they are all of them truly converted And if they be not alwayes truly converted then let him not wonder nor stumble at the phrase of unconverted Christians But if the Discusser doe sadly observe it that my soule hath not yet heard the call of the Lord Jesus to come out of unconverted Churches truly I have just cause not without sadnesse and mourning to consider and to pray that he might consider what call of the Lord Jesus his soule hath heard to come out not onely out of unconverted Churches but converted too yea out of all Churches Discusser Againe I observe the haste and light attention of the Answerer to these Scriptures as commonly the Spirits of Gods children in matters of Gods Kingdome are very sleepy for these persons here spoken of were not unconverted Christians in Creete whom Titus as an Evnngelist was to convert but they were such Opposites as Timothy to whom Paul writeth this Letter at Ephesus should not meet withall Defender Whether such words be found in the copy of my Answer to the Letter I leave it to the Discussers credit As I said even now mine owne copy I cannot after much diligent search finde the Transcript which I have found hath it otherwise the unconverted Persons in Ephesus whom Timothy as an Evangelist was to seeke to convert But if my copy doe speake as he reporteth Then 1. I doe not deny but have just cause to acknowledge mine owne haste and light attention and sleepinesse in the matters of Christs Kingdome not onely in this passage but frequently else in the race of my Christian course of life The Disciples themselves Christ found sleepy Matth. 26.40 how much more may he find me sleepy 2. The Discusser might have imputed it as well to my hast to gratifie his earnest desire to Answer his friends Letter and to my confidence in his love that for hast to satisfie him mistooke one place and person for another and was not so attentive to peruse and examine the copy sent by me to him as I would have been had I sent it to an Adversary 3. The case is all one in the matters of Christs Kingdome whether I had named Timothy or Titus Ephesus or Creete For the persons were both of them Evangelists and the places of them both such as had unconverted persons in them and like enough unconverted Christians too Ephesus had evill persons amongst them whom they could not beare Rev. 2.2 as well as Creet had amongst them such as were alwayes lyars evill Beasts slow bellies Tit. 1.12 4. The Discusser that observeth haste and light attention and sleepinesse in another one would thinke would be more vigilant and attentive himselfe He that saith as the Discusser doth in his parenthesis that Paul wrote this Letter to wit his second Epipistle to Timothy at Ephesus taketh it for granted that which without some hasty lightnesse even the same which he blameth in my selfe he cannot beleive that Paul wrote his second to Timothy at Ephesus There is no word in the Epistle that speaketh of Timothies being at Ephesus when Paul wrote that second Epistle His calling of an Evangelist did not permit him to tarry long in a place and the first Epistle to Timothy is thought by the Learned to have been written one of the first of all Pauls Epistles next after those of the Thessalonians But the second Epistle to Timothy was written last of all the Epistles when Pauls time of departure was at hand 2 Tim. 4.6 And when Paul writeth 2 Timothy 4.12 that he had sent Tychicus to Ephesus It is not likely he would have written so to Timothy if Timothy then had been at Ephesus For Timothy would have knowne that Tychycus had been at Ephesus or if Tychicus
is evill c. Defender But not simply because it is evill unlesse it be also notorious and evident and convicted by sufficient witnesses and held forth with publick offence and disturbance Neither doe the Elders take away from the Magistrates the cognizance of the complaints of Children Servants wives against Parents Masters Husbands Unlesse they be meerely private and easily healed in a private way by Domesticall Government what need houshold Government if every Family-offence should be brought to the cognizance of the publick Magistrate one Ordinance of God doth not swallow up another CHAP. 53. A Reply to his Chap. 53 54 and 55. Discusser THe Author of the Letter proceeded to a last Reason from Scripture to prove that the Disciples of Christ should be so farre from persecuting that they ought to blesse them that curse them and pray for them that persecute them and that because of the freenesse of Gods grace and deepnesse of his Counsels calling home them that be Enemies persecutors no people yea some at the last houre Vnto this Reason the Answerer is pleased thus to Reply First in generall we must not doe evill that good may come thereof Secondly in particular he affirmeth that it is evill to tolerate seditious evill doers seducing Teachers scandalous livers and for proofe of this quoteth Christs Reproofe of the Angels of Pergamus and Thyatira for tolerating Balaam and Jezabel to teach and seduce Revel 2.14.20 Defender The Discusser forgetteth himselfe through Incogitancy if not through guile when he maketh this to have been my first Reply that we must not doe evill that good may come thereof For he is not ignorant that I gave two Answers or Replyes as he calleth them before in the same place First when Christ commandeth his Disciples to blesse them that curse them and persecute them he giveth not therein a Rule to publick Officers whether in Church or Common-wealth to suffer notorious sinners either in Life or Doctrine to passe away with a Blessing but to private Christians to suffer persecution patiently yea and to pray for their Persecutors Againe it is true Christ would have his Disciples to be farre from persecuting for persecution is a wicked oppression of men for Righteousnesse sake but that hindereth not but that he would have them execute upon all Disobedience the Judgement and vengeance required in the Word 2 Cor. 10.6 Rom. 13.4 Both these Answers the Discusser passeth over in silence For looke as Children where they cannot read thinke it best to skip over so men of riper yeares when they are loath to stoop to the Authority of the Truth they thinke it best to passe it over in silence But what is it the Discusser is pleased to answer to Discusser In this Proposition that it is evill to tolerate notorious evill doers seducing Teachers scandalous livers I observe two evills First that this Proposition is too large and generall because the Rule admitteth of exception and that according to the will of God Defender And to prove that this generall Proposition admitteth some exception the Discusser spendeth the rest of this 53. chapter as also the 54 th chapter and 55 th But because I would not spend time nor weary the Reader with following the Discusser in impertinent and copious digressions I returne briefly this Reply First it is wholly impertinent whatsoever the Discusser is pleased to discourse of Gods permission or toleration of any evill For first God is his owne Rule and what he doth is good because he doth it Not his Act but his word is a Rule to us He may tolerate Cain a Murtherer to live but that is no precedent to a Civill Magistrate Secondly I willingly grant it may be lawfull for a Civill Magistrate to tolerate notorious evill doers in two cases under which all the Examples will fall which the Discusser alleadgeth in any word of Truth As first in regard of the efficient cause of punishing when the Magistrates hand is too weake and feeble and the offendors Adherents so great and strong that Justice cannot be done upon him without manifest perill to the whole State there the Magistrate may tolerate a notorious evill even murther it selfe as David upon this ground did tolerate in Joab and Abishai the murther of Abner 2 Sam. 3.39 And secondly in regard of the finall cause an evill may be tolerated to prevent other greater evills As Moses tolerated divorce of unpleasing Wives to prevent the murder or other hard and cruell usage of them In either of these cases I would not deny but a murderer may be tolerated if either the Magistrate want sufficient Power with safety of the State to cut him off or if a forraine State be so affected and addicted to the Murderer that in case the Magistrate here cut off him they will cut off sundry of our innocent and necessary members whom they have gotten into their custody in revenge of him And if either of these be the case I easily grant that it is not evill to tolerate a notorious seducing false Teacher or other scandalous liver But such an extraordinary doth not hinder the due largenesse and generality of the Proposition that it is evill to tolerate seditious evill doers seducing Teachers scandalous Livers As in a paralell case this Proposition is not too large nor too generall it is evill to tolerate a bloudy murderer notwithstanding in some cases such as have been named but those are extraordinary it may be lawfull to tolerate him Now that in ordinary cases it is not lawfull to tolerate a seducing false Teacher the Commandement of God is cleare and strong Deut. 13.8 9. Thine eye shall not pity him neither shalt thou spare him neither shalt thou conceale him but thou shalt surely kill him If the Discusser shall except that strict Commandement was in force in Israel because their Land was typically holy or their Magistrates were Types of Christ The Reply is plaine and just God himselfe alledgeth no such reason of his Law But another quite different but common with them to all Nations professing the worship of the true God Thou shalt put him to death because he sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God ver 10. Neither can any instance be given of any Capitall Law of Moses but is of Morall that is of generall and perpetuall Equity in all Nations in all Ages Capitalia Mosis Politica sunt aeterna CHAP. 54. A Reply to his Chap. 56. Discusser I Come now to the second Evill which I observe in the Answerers former Position that it would be evill to tolerate seducing Teachers scandalous Livers In two things I shall discover the great evill of this joyning and coupling seducing Teachers and scandalous Livers as the proper and adaequate object of the Magistrates care and worke to suppresse and punish Defender I no where make it the proper and adaequate object of the Magistrates care and worke to suppresse and punish seducing Teachers and scandalous livers For
I have expresly said it and proved it before that it is and ought to be the care and worke of the Church also to suppresse and punish seducing Teachers and scandalous livers in a Church-way as well as the Magistrate in a civill way Discusser First this joyning of things of such different kindes is not an homogeneall but heterogeneall commixture of things most different in kinds Defender But these different kinds they agree in one common kind they are both of them evills and evills destructive in their severall wayes to the common good of Gods people which ought to be preserved both in Church and Common-wealth The Termes of Homogeneall and Heterogeneall are in this case only words of noyse and of an empty sound fit to take with simple people that know not the meaning nor use of them Discusser Who knoweth not that many seducing Teachers of the Paganish Jewish Turkish or Antichristian Religion may be cleare and free from scandalous offences in their lives and from disobedience to the civill Lawes of the State Defender Now you may see the Discusser was willing to make use of founding words which himselfe it seemeth knew not well the use of For what if there were many seducing Teachers of all Religions that may be cleare from scandalous offences the distinguishing therefore of evills into these two sorts into seditious Teachers and scandalous offenders is so much the more allowable and accurate If a man shall say the worke of the Creation on the sixt day was either of man or of Beast shall a man goe about here to observe a great evill that here is not an homogeneall but an heterogeneall commixture of things most different in kind For who knoweth not that there are many Beasts Lyons Leopards Wolves Beares that never were men but are cleare and free from all humane nature Such a like reasoning is that of the Discusser here What if many seducing Teachers whether Jewish Paganish Turkish Antichristian were never scandalous livers but obedient to the civill State yet are they not all of them evill and accordingly to be restrayned by lawfull Authority And is the joyning of them together the great evill of an heterogeneall commixture Againe let the Discusser be pleased to observe that which hath been often touched afore that we looke at it as more tolerable for seducing Teachers to seduce those who are already in the same gall of bitternesse with themselves as Pagans to seduce Pagans Jewes to seduce Jewes Turkes to seduce Turkes and Antichristians to seduce Antichristians Though this also ought to be prevented by wise and wholsome meanes by a Christian Magistrate in all those that are under his dominion so far as there is power in his hand without the hazard of the publick State Lastly let me adde this Reply to the rest that it will be hard for the Discusser to finde Antichristian seducers cleare and free from Disobedience to the civill Lawes of a State in case that Antichrist to whom they are sworne shall excommunicate the civill Magistrate and prescribe the civill State to the invasion of Forrayners Discusser Again who knoweth not that a seducing Teacher properly sinneth against the Church against the Spirituall State and Lawes of it and therefore ought most properly and onely to be dealt withall in such a way Defender These twise-sod Coleworts the Discusser hath often set them before us heretofore but with as little savour now as before For what if a seducing Teacher having sinned against the Church be cast out by the Church and still continue seducing yea what a weake and guilfull evasion would this prove for the Discusser to referre a seducing Teacher to a Church-way when himselfe doth not acknowledge any Church of Christ extant upon the face of the Earth Discusser A second evill which I observe in coupling seducing Teachers with scandalous livers is a silent and implicit Justification of all unrighte us and cruell proceedings of Jewes and Gentiles against all the Prophets of God the Lord Jesus himselfe and all his messingers and witnesses whom their Accusers have ever so coupled and mixed with notorious evill doers and scandalous livers c. Defender Is this a silent and implicite Justification of all the injurious and cruell handlings by wicked men of the Lord Jesus and his witnesses to say that seducing Teachers and scandalous livers are to be punished by Authority because the Lord Jesus himselfe and his witnesses have suffered under those names What if the wicked Jewes and Gentiles did injuriously and blasphemously put those names upon the Lord Jesus and his faithfull witnesses and upon pretence of such evils put them to death doth it therefore justifie such proceedings to say that seducing Teachers and scandalous livers are to be punished by Authority If those who are indeed seducing Teachers and scandalous livers ought to be punished will it therefore justifie the like proceedings against them who are no such persons but falsly so called if a man should say a murderer is to be punished with death will it therefore justifie the Islanders of Melita to put Paul to death because amongst them he was so reputed doubtlesse a murderer Acts 28.4 yea let the Discusser seriously confider whether this kind of reasoning of his doe not more then silently and implicitely testifie that the Lord Jesus and his witnesses were seducing Teachers and scandalous livers CHAP. 55. A Reply to his Chap. 57. Discusser THe Scripture alleaged by the Answerer to prove that it would be an evill to tolerate notorious evill doers whether seducing Teachers or scandalous livers is written Rev. 2.14.20 Where Christ hath something against the Church of Pergamus for tolerating them that hold the Doctrine of Balaam and against the Church of Thyatira for tolerating Jezebel to teach and seduce Vnto which I may answer with some admiration and astonishment how it pleased the Father of Lights and most Jealous God to darken and vaile the eyes of such a man as not to seeke out and propose some Scriptures in the proofe of so weighty an assertion as at least might have some colour for the influence of the civill Magistrate in such cases For these Texts concerne neither the City nor the civill Magistrates of Pergamus and Thyatyra but the Churches and Elders c. Defender It was no part of my meaning to alledge those Scriptures to prove it unlawfull for Magistrates to tolerate seducing Teachers but unlawfull for Churches If the Discusser say there needed no proofe of that that was out of Question I may truly tell him that was more then I knew For the Letter which he intreated me to Answer so stated the Question as in generall to argue against persecution for cause of Conscience And if the Question be put in such generall Termes I knew the Church might as well be complained of for persecution for cause of Conscience as the civill Magistrate For if persecution be taken properly for affliction or oppression for righteousnesse sake I
knew it was out of Question all persecution was unlawfull whether by the Church or the Magistrate an unjust excommunication is as true persecution as an unjust Banishment But if persecution be taken more largely and loosely as it is by the Author of the Letter and by the Discusser for any affliction or persecution for cause of Conscience whether good Conscience or evill whether rightly informed or erroneous If that be the intent of the Letter as it seemed to me to beare witnesse against that then any testimony of Scripture that justifieth a lawfull censure of false and erroneous Teachers doth evince the scope of the Letter to be erroneous which is against all persecution for cause of Conscience Let therefore the Discusser admire at his owne admiration and be astonished at his owne astonishment that wondereth to see an universall negative argued against by a particular affirmative The Letter denyeth the lawfulnesse of all persecution in cause of Conscience that is in matter of Religion I seek to evince the falshood of it by an instance of lawfull Church-prosecution in case of false Teachers Discusser But if the Churches and Angels thereof had sufficient power to suppresse Balaam and Jezabel then all power of Magistrates and Governours in Pergamus and Thyatira though they had been Christian must needs fall to the ground as none of Christs appointment Defender The power of the Churches and Angels of Pergamus and Thyatyra were sufficient for those ends for which Christ ordained Church-power to wit for the healing of the soules of such seducers if they belonged to Christ as also for keeping those Churches pure from the fellowship of the guilt of their Act in teaching false Doctrines whom they had duly censured But the power of those Churches and Angels was not sufficient to prevent the further spreading of the Leaven of their false Doctrines both in such as were out of the Church and in private amongst the members of the Church who might adhere to them Much lesse was the putting forth of the Church-power against them sufficient to cleare the Magistrates of a Christian State from the guilt of Apostasie in suffering such Apostates amongst them who would be ready to solicite many simple soules either to with-hold and with-draw themselves from the Fellowship of the Churches or in the Churches to withdraw from the Lord Jesus Discusser Lastly from this perverse wresting of what is writ to the Church and the Officers thereof as if it were writ to the Civill Officers and State thereof all may see how since the Apostacie of Antichrist the Christian world so called hath swallowed up Christianity how the Church and Civill State that is the Church and the world are now become one flock of Jesus Christ c. Defender Here is no wresting much lesse perverse wresting of any Scripture at all from the Church to the Civill State I intended to apply the Scripture written to the Churches and to the Officers thereof no further then to other Churches and their Officers The Scriptures upon which we call in the Magistrate to the punishment of Seducers are such as are directed to civill States and Magstrates of which divers have been mentioned and applyed before CHAP. 56. A Reply to his Chap. 58 and 59. Discussing the Testimony of some Princes Discusser I Proceed to the second Head of Reasons against persecution for cause of Conscience taken from the profession of famous Princes King James Stephen of Poland King of Bonemia Vnto whom the Answerer returneth a treble Answer 1. Wee willingly acknowledge saith he that none is to be persecuted at all no more then any may be oppressed for righteousnesse sake Again we acknowledge that none is to be punished for his Conscience though misinformed unlesse his errour be fundamentall or seditiously and turbulently promoted and that after due conviction of his Conscience that it may appeare he is not punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his Conscience Furthermore we acknowledge none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the truth of it but yet restrayned he may be from blaspheming the Truth and from seducing any into pernicious errours This first Answer I believe I have sufficiently cleared the weaknesse of the Foundations thereof in the former discourse Defender And I doubt not but by the help of Christ I have formerly declared and convinced the feeblenesse of the opposition made against them and what firme foundations those Answers are built upon from the Scriptures of Truth Discusser His second Answer is this what Princes professe and practise is not a Rule of Conscience They many times tolerate that in State Policy which cannot justly be tolerated in point of true Christianity Againe Princes many times tolerate Offendors out of very necessity when the Offenders are too many or too mighty for them to punish In which respect David tolerated Joab and his murder but against his will It may be here observed how the Answerer dealeth with Princes one while they are nursing Fathers to the Church not onely to feed but also to correct and therefore consequently bound to judge what is true feeding and correcting and consequently all men are bound to submit to their feeding and correcting Defender The Discusser doth partly falsly and partly fraudulently fasten upon me this dealing with Princes That I make them nursing Fathers of the Church I therein follow the footsteps of the Holy Ghost before me teaching what Princes should be and foretelling what they shall be in the latter dayes Isaiah 49.23 In which place It was not the intent of the Holy Ghost nor mine to threaten the Church with a red of Correction But to comfort the Church with a double blessing First of the Fatherly provision and protection of Princes for the Church Secondly of their subjection to the Church in respect of their spirituall Estate What Princes may doe in case the Church should Apostate and become no Church or in case they should breake forth into Sedition and Rebellion against the Civill State It is another Question which I have not medled with in all this Discourse Neither have I spoken of Princes as bound to Judge what is true feeding or correcting least of all have I said that all men are bound especially in Conscience to their feeding and correcting These are calumnies devised by the Discusser All I have said to my remembrance this way is that Princes are bound to be wise and Learned with holy knowledge that they may kisse the Sonne and be subject to him Psal 2.10.11 And therefore able to discerne of such corrupt feeding as destroyeth the Foundation of Religion and the soules of Gods people that they may be able to restraine such and to preserve the Church from such ravenous Wolves and I deny not that their Subjects are to submit to them herein when they judge according to the Word or howsoever patiently to suffer for well-doing without resistance
Request of the generall Councel of Nice Banished Arius with some of his fellowes Ecclesiast Histor l 1. Cap. 19.20 The same Constantine made a severe Law against the Donatists the like proceedings against them were used by Valentinian Gratian Theodosius as Augustine reporteth in Epist 166. onely Julian the Apostate graunted liberty to Hereticks as well as to Pagans that he might by Tolerating all weeds to grow choake the vitalls of Christianity Which was also the practise and sinne of Ualens the Arian Queene Elizabeth as famous for her government as most of the former It is well knowne what Lawes she made and executed against Papists Yea and King James one of your owne Witnesses though he was slow in proceeding against Papists as you say for Conscience sake yet you are not ignorant how sharply and severely he punished those whom the Malignant world calleth Puritans men of more Conscience better Faith then the Papists whom he Tolerated Discusser First for mine owne part I would not use an Argument from the number of Princes witnessing in profession or practise against persecution for cause of Conscience c. Truth and Faith must not be received with respect of persons pretious pearles are found in muddy shells The most High chooseth the poore of this world to be witnesses to his Truth and Buchanan dying was going thither whether few Kings were comming Defender This Chapter then might have been spared for it neither maintaineth his cause nor refuteth my answer to his friends Argument but yeeldeth up the invalidity of the Argument from such a Topick place As from the number and votes of Princes But by his leave the answer which I gave to his argument is not taken from the like number of Princes but from the greater piety and presence of God with those Princes who have professed and practised against Toleration It is truly said Suffragia non sunt numeranda sed ponderanda Heroicall wisdome magnanimity and zeale is not the lesse to be esteemed because it is found in the spirit and counsel and practise of Princes CHAP. 59. A Reply to his Chap. 62. Discusser Secondly I observe how inconsiderately I hope not willingly the Answerer passeth by the reasons and grounds urged by these three Princes In King James his speech he passeth by that golden Maxime that God never loved to plant his Church by bloud Defender The Discusser is mistaken when he saith I passed over their reasons and grounds inconsiderately though he hopeth not willingly for indeed I passed them over willingly but not inconsiderately For I well considered either the reasons wanted weight or else did not impugne the cause in hand For instance this speech of King James That God never loved to plant his Church by bloud though it be a Truth of weight yet it doth not touch this cause It is farre from us to defend the planting of Churches by bloud that is to compell men to yeeld themselves to the fellowship of the Church by bloudy Lawes or poenalties the Church of Christ admitteth no members but a willing people Psal 110.3 Neverthelesse that hindereth not but as the Church was purchased and planted by the bloud of Christ so he that shall goe about to supplant and destroy the Church of Christ his bloud may justly fall upon his owne head Discusser Secondly That civill obedience may be performed by Papists this was another reason of King James passed over by the Answerer Defender No marvell that I passed it over for I did not finde it in the Letter For though the King say as the Letter reporteth him I onely declared to be secured for civill obedience which for Conscience cause they were bound to performe yet the King doeth not say That civill obedience may be performed by Papists standing stedfast to the rules of their owne Religion For if the Bishop of Rome upon pretence of hereticall pravity shall excommunicate a Protestant Prince dissolve the Subjects Oath of Allegiance to him depose him dispose of his Kingdome In this case which often falleth out how can civill obedience be performed by the Papists Discusser Thirdly The Kings third ground is his observation in Revel 20. That persecution is a true certaine note of a false Church The wicked are Beseigers the faithfull Beseiged Defender I subscribe to the King that persecution properly so called that is the oppression of any for righteousnesse sake is a note of a false Church but nor a certaine note For againe I say that persecution properly so called may be sometime found in the true Church For which of all the Prophets did not the Church of the old Testament persecute Acts 7.52 And yet that persecution was not the true and certaine note of a false Church For then God had left no true Church upon the face of the earth But this I graunt That such persecution where ever it is found It is a degree of falshood and A postacy in that Church But what a vast distance is there between the just censure of Apostasticall and Hereticall seducers and disturbers of the Churches peace and truth and between persecution As for the other speech The wicked are beseigers the faithfull are beseiged It may well be said of the seige spoken of in that 20. of the Revelation But if it should be put for a universall Maxime Royall Authority cannot make it good Divinity When the ten Christian Kings shall hate the Whore of Rome and eate her flesh and burne her with fire Rev. 17.16 I suppose the Discusser will not say the wicked are Beseigers the faithfull are beseiged Discusser In King Stephens speech of Poland he passeth by the true difference between a civill and a spirituall Government I am said Stephen a civill Magistrate over the bodyes of men not a spirituall over their soules Defender King Stephens speech may well stand and the cause still untouched The Magistrate is a Ruler over the Bodies of men not over their soules He cannot command their soules nor binde their Consciences nor punish their spirits It is the Lord alone can reach them That which the King or Magistrate can doe or doeth in this case is to punish the bodyes of men for destroying or disturbing Religion Discusser To confound these is Babel and Jewish to seeke for Moses and bring him from his Grave c. Defender It is Babel indeed for civill Magistrates to make Lawes to binde Conscience and to excommunicate transgressors of those Lawes But to punish false Prophets and Seducers of Gods people to Idolatry was never the practise of Babel but it was and is their practise not onely to Tolerate them but to advance and encourage them If it were a Jewish seeking of Moses and a bringing him from his Grave to punish Seducers for Idolatry then after Moses was buried that Law Deut. 13. was abrogated But his buryall and Gods hiding of the place thereof was rather a confirmation and establishment of it then any Abrogation or Impeachment
of it For may it not justly be conceived That the Lord therefore hid the place of his buriall least the Children of Israel knowing it might goe a whoring after his Sepulchre and it may be offer sweet incense upon it and so such false worship against the law of Moses might come to be Tolerated for honor to the body of Moses But Christ hath abolished a Nationall State or Church which Moses set up in Canaan Though Christ abolished a Nationall Church-State and instead thereof set up a Congregationall Church yet Christ never abolished a Nationall Civill State nor the Judiciall Lawes of Moses which were of Morall equity but established them rather in their place and order He that shed his own bloud to plant his Church did never abolish that Law which enacted that his bloud should be upon him who should supplant his Church If Christs bloud goe to plant it let the false Christs bloud goe for supplanting it Discusser In the King of Bohemias speech the Answerer passeth by that Foundation in grace and Nature that Conscienee ought not to be violated and forced it is a spirituall Rape Defender This was not passed by but prevented in stating the Question where it was said it is not lawfull to censure any no not for error in Fundamentall points of Doctrine or Worship till the Conscience of the offendor be first convinced out of the word of God of the dangerous error of his way and then if he still persist It is not out of Conscience but against his Conscience as the Apostle saith Tit. 3.11 so he is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but punished for sinning against his Conscience Discusser The King observeth that most lamentably true experience of all ages That persecution for cause of Conscience hath ever proved pernicious c. Defender No experience in any age did ever prove it pernicious to punish seducing Apostates after due conviction of the error of their way Wherein did the burning of Servetus prove pernicious to Geneva or the just execution of many popish Preists to Queene Elizabeth or to the english State But the Kings speech may passe if it be meant of persecution properly so called to wit Oppression of the faithfull for the Truths sake yea if it be the punishment of any for error If not Fundamentally pernicious either to Religion or Church-order and that after conviction of Conscience persisted in with obstinacy Discusser Lastly the Kings observation of his owne time that Persecution for cause of Conscience was practised most in England and such places where Popery reigned Implying as I conceive such practises commonly proceed from the great Whore whose Daughters are like their Mother all of a bloudy nature as commonly all wolves be Defender It is no marvell if I passed by this observation in the Kings speech For there is no such observation there to be found If the Discusser had well observed it himselfe he would have found it was not the speech of the King but of the Prisoner And the persecution he speaketh of was not of Antichristians or Hereticks or Idolaters but onely of such as the world nick-named Puritans or the like and of them too without conviction of the error of their way But in that the Discusser maketh England a Daughter of the great Whore and of a bloudy nature like her Mother he speaketh as some other of the rigid Seperation have done before him But I could never yet see awarrant from the rule either of Truth or Love for such a speech Did ever the holy Scripture call any Church an whore that worshipped the true God onely in the Name of Jesus and depended on him alone for righteousnesse and salvation Is it not the part of a base childe or at least a base pare of a childe to call his Mother whore who bred him and bred him to know no other Father but her lawfull Husband the Lord Jesus Christ CHAP. 60. A Reply to his 63. Chap. Discusser NOw Thirdly In that the Answerer observeth that amongst the Romane Emperors they that did not persecute were Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian Whereas the good Emperors Constantine Gratian Valentian and Theodosius they did persecute the Arians and Donatists Let it be for an Answer It is no new thing for godly and eminently godly men to performe ungodly actions nor for ungodly persons for wicked ends to act what in it selfe is good and righteous c. Defender This may goe for a truth but not for an Answer The Letter would Justifie Toleration of Religion from the judgement and speeches of three Kings I Answered that was no Argument for I could bring him Kings more in number and greater in the sight of God and man who judged it meet not to tolerate Hereticks nor turbulent Schismaticks To this the Discusser Answereth sometimes the Godly doe that which is evill and the wicked that which is good This I say is a Truth but doth not take away my Answer but by a Petitio Principij a begging of the Question That Kings alledged by him did that which was good but the Kings alledged by me though better persons did that which was evill CHAP. 61. A Reply to his Chap. 64. Discusser THe unknowing zeale of Constantine and other Emperors did more hurt to Christ Jesus his Church and Kingdome then the raging fury of the most bloudy Neroes In the persecution of those wicked Emperors Christians were sweet and fragrant like spice pounded in Morters But those good Emperors persecuting some erroneous persons and advancing the Professors of some truthes and maintaining their Religion by the materiall Sword by this meanes Christianity was eclipsed The Professors of it fell asleepe Cant. 5. Babel was usher'd in and by degrees the Churches of the Saints were turned into the Wildernesse of whole Nations Rev. 12.13 untill the whole world became Christian or Christendome Those good Emperors intending to exalt Christ but not attending to the command of Christ Jesus to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world they made the Garden of the Church and Field of the world all one c. Defender If the unknowing zeale of Constantine other Christian Emperors did more hurâ— to the Church then the raging fury of bloudy Neroes It was not because the raging fury of those Persecutors was more accepted of God then this unknowing zeale of the good Emperors For though the unknowing zeale of the one was finfull yet it was the friut of humane frialty Error Amoris But the rage of the others was divelish fury Amor Erroris Besides the unknowing zeale of the good Emperors lay not in punishing notorious Hereticall Seducers nor will the Discusser be ever able to shew that the Church of Christ suffered any hurt at all by that meanes The contrary is evident Constantius and Valens by Tolerating and favoring the Arians the whole world became Arian Ingemuit orbis Christianus et miratus est factum se esse Arianum
Now whether be the greater mischeife the whole world to become Arian or to become Christian Let Christians judge The Discusser indeed speaketh of it as a soliscisme in Religion that the whole world should become Christian and quoteth for it Rev. 12. and 13. But Rev. 12. speaketh nothing to the purpose and Revel 13. speaketh of it as a marveilous evill that the whole world should wonder after the Beast ver 3. But their wondering after the Beast not a becoming Christian for they were that before nor did it spring onely from the unknowing zeale of Christian Emperors in persecuting Apostate Hereticks But rather from their sinful Indulgence in the Toleration of Hereticks in Doctrine and Idolaters in Worship For had they been zealous and watchfull against such how is it possible that ever Antichrist should have been hatched up to carry the world after him into such a notorious Apostacy It was not persecution that made the world Christian but Toleration that made the world Antichristian Furthermore the hurt of the unknowing zeale of good Emperors did to the Church came in also another way by advancing Church-Officers to Mountaines of high preferments and settled indowments Rev. 8.8 9. The Church never tooke hurt by the punishment of Hereticks Moreover when God advanced Constantine and other good Emperors to sit on the Throne It is true the Church soone became a wildernesse but that came not to passe because those Emperors forced Pagans into Church-Fellowship by the materiall Sword as the Discusser intimateth but untruly But because the common sort are willing to follow the example of great ones Regis ad exemplum totus componitur Orbis as also because of the sleepinesse of the watchmen the Elders of the Churches who should not have suffered such store of Tares to come into the communion of the Church Had the world renounced their Paganisme and professed Christ to be the Sonne of God but yet had been kept out of the Fellowship of the Church till they had approved their profession by a sincere Christian conversation It had been no soliscisme at all howsoever the Discusser judge of it though the whole world had been come Christian and stiled Christendome But it is too grosse and palpable a mistake to make this the cause why the Garden of the Church and the Field of the world became all one because the zeale of Christian Emperors intending to exalt Christ did not attend to the command of Christ to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world For they did permit them to live in the Field of the world they seldome or never put any to death for Hereticall pravity though it had bin better they had so done with some of them But onely exiled them from such Cities and Countryes as were most Populous where if they had continued they might have had too great an opportunity of spreading their leaven which as the Apostle speaketh fretteth like a Gangrene 1 Tim. 2.17 CHAP. 62. A Reply to his Chap. 65. Discusser I Desire you to glance your eye on this not unworthy observation how fully this Answere hath learned the Language of Lyon like Persecution c. for thus he writeth more and greater Princes then these you mention have not Tolerated Hereticks and Schismatiks notwithstanding their pretence of Conscience and their Arrogating the Crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings T is true these termes Hereticks or wilfully obstinate and Schismaticks are used in holy writ t is true also that such pretend Conscience and Arrogate the Crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings But this is the common clamour of Persecutors against the witnesses of Jesus in all ages you are Hereticks Schismaticks factious Seditious rebellious Defender If it be true that these be Scripture termes and by his owne acknowledgement truly applyable to Hereticks and Schismaticks then it seemeth the Discusser hath learned this Language of Ashdod that the Scripture it self and Truth it selfe speaketh the roaring Language of Lyon-like Persecution For he acknowledgeth the Scripture useth the same termes and Truth verefieth the same things In Summe It is as much to say as Paul had learned the roaring and railing Language of Lyon-like Pharoah Pharoah told the Children of Israel yee are idle yee are idle Exod. 5.17 And Paul had learned to say as much to the Cretians by his Letter to Titus The Cretians are alwayes liars evill beasts and flow bellyes Tit. 1.12 But is it so indeed may not the same reproofe unjustly cast upon Gods servants be justly applyed to Gods enemies wâ—en by the Discussers owne confessiâ—n it may be applyed truly If Persecutors misapply Scripture Termes rebukes to Christs Witnesses falsely may not a servant of God apply the same truly as the Scripture applyeth them but he shall be thought to learne to speake not the Language of Scripture but the Language of persecutors Discusser Ob it is hard for Gods Children to fall to Opinion and practise of Persecution without ready learning the Language thereof And doubtlesse that soule that can so readily learne Babels Language hath cause to feare that he hath not yet in Point of Worship left the gates or suburbs of it Defender If this Language used by me be the Termes of Scripture and by the acknowledgement of Truth rightly applyed then it is the Language of Canaan and not of Babel What Language they have learned who in point of Worship have left Zion but not the gates and Suburbs of Babel for they set up Bulwaâ—ks of Impunity to secure them Let themselves in the feare of God confider But what Language is it to speake of me as having learned the opinion practise of persecution I desiâ—e the God of Truth to teach him to know It is the Language of him that stood not in the Truth and of such also as call evill good and good evill Discusser Againe in blaming Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian for Tolerating all weeds to grow he noteth their sinfull end that thereby they might choake the vitalls of Christianity and seemeth herein to consent on a speech of Jerome That the weeds of false Religions tolerated have a Power to kill true Christianity in the Church But when Christianity began to be choaked It was not when Christians lodged in cold Prisons but Downe-Beds of ease and Persecuted others Defender I noted indeed the sinfull end of Julian the Apostate in tolerating all Religions and Heresies to aime at the choaking of the vitalls of Christianity Of Valens I noted the like finfull practise of Tolerating all Religions but did not expresse his end But what I spake of the end concerned Julian and I spâ—ke of it not of mine owne imagination though he that shall read the stories of his Apostacy and malignity against the Name of Christ and Christians might easily beleive and speake it without rashnesse but I speake it out of a grave and judicious Authour who lived neere those times I meane Aligustine who in his 166
wisdome and Truth that the Disousser should publish the delights of Christ in a confussed way without distinguishing things that differ and so not dividing the Word aright It is true that Christ delighteth not in the bloud of men but shed his owne for his bloudiest enemies and gainsayers to wit whilst they gainsaying him and bloudily persecute him or his out of ignorance In this case indeed he prayeth for them and dieth for them Father forgive them they know not what they doe Luk. 23.34 whilest wee were enemies Christ died for us Rom. 5.8 10. But to say that Christ delighteth not in the bloud of men who after the acknowledgement of his Truth doe tread the bloud of his Covenant under foote and wittingly and willingly reject him from reigning over them To hold it forth that Christ delighteth not in the bloud of such men or that he would not have such molested by the civill Sword who gainsay Christ known and professed and joyn with his enemy Antichrist in blaspheming and persecuting Christ and his Saints This the Discusser can never make good to be the word of Christ It is indeed to publish the glad Tidings of the Gospel not to the humble and meeke Lambes of Christ but to the seed of the Serpent to sow pillowes under all elbowes to make the hearts of the righteous sad whom God would not make sad and to strengthen the hands of the wicked in their Apostacy from the truth and malignity against it Christ hath pronounced it upon earth and ratifyed it in Heaven Those mine enemies that would not that I should reigne over them bring them hither and slay them before my face Luk. 19.27 Are these the words of him that delighteth not in the bloud of his bloudyest enemies and gainsayers when the Lord Jesus sendeth forth his servants to powre out bloudy vengeance upon Antichristian emissaries and openeth the hearts mouthes of his Saints to praise him for thus judging Rev. 16.4 7 Is this to proclaime a Magna-Charta of highest libertyes even to his gainsayers and to such as joyn with his enemy Antichrist Time was when Jehu justly demanded What peace what hast thou to doe with peace so long as the whor domes of thy Mother Jezebel and her witcherafts are so many 2 Kings 9.22 And are the times now so farre changed that the Sword of Jebu shall proclaime peace to Jezebel and peace to all that call her mother and peace to her whoredomes and peace to her witchcrafts and then to blesse our selves with a glorious expectation That soone shall every Brow and house be stucke with O live branches The Lord keepe us from being bewitched with the Whores cup lest whilst wee seeme to detest and reject her with open face of profession wee doe not bring her in by a back doore of Toleration and so come at last to drink deepely of the cup of the Lords wrath and be filled with the cup of her plagues Amen CHAP. 79. Touching the Modell of Church and civill Power composed by Mr. Cotton and the Ministers of New-England and sent to the Church of Salem c. Examined by the Discusser and Answered THis Title or Inscription which the Examiner setteth up of this Modell holdeth forth to the world a double falshood 1. That the Modell was composed by Mr. Cotton and other Ministers of New-England This is one falshood What other Ministers of New-England did in it themselves know But for Mr. Cotton I know that he was none of them that composed it 2. That this Modell was sent to the Church of Salem if he meane sent by those Ministers as the following words imply for the confirmation of their Doctrine that is another falshood The Ministers themselves that composed the Modell doe deny it Howsoever the Modell came to Salem the Ministers say it was not sent by them But see when men are left of God openly and boldly to write against the truth in matter of Doctrin how readily and freely they can write and speake falshood in matter of fact It is therefore lesse marvell that in Answer to the preface of the Modell he breaketh forth into such vast hyperboles That the Modell awakeneth Meses from his unknowne Grave and denyeth Jesus yet to have seen the earth A speech as devoid of reason as of truth The observation of Moses Lawes doth not awaken Moses out of his grave nor is there any reason it should The validity of Lawes doth not in reason depend upon the life or resurrection of the Lawgiver the Examiner himselfe I suppose would not doubt but the Lawes of Moses were of force to the Israelites in the Land of Canaan when yet Moses was dead and buried before their entrance into the Land Neither did their observation of them awaken Moses out of his grave but argued his Lawes to be in force as well after his death as whilst he was yet living If it be said That Christ at his coming in the flesh when he was buried himselfe buried also the Lawes of Moses with him in his grave Then the Examiner should not have said that the Modell raised up Moses out of his grave but that it raised up Christ out of his grave If it be said againe the Examiner saith It denyed Christ to have seen the earth which was of as ill consequence Be it so but yet still this maketh nothing to the rasing up of Moses out of his grave I Answer further Neither doth it at all deny Christ to have seen the earth For Christ came not to destroy the Law of Moses Mat. 5.17 Neither the Morall Law for in the sequele of that Chapter he doth at large expound it and establish it No nor did he come to destroy the judiciall Lawes such of them as are of Morall equity Or else the Conscience of the civill Magistrate could never doe any act of civill justice out of faith because he should have no word of God to be the ground of his action if the Lawes of judgement in the Old-Testament were abrogated and none extant in the New As for the exception which the Examiner taketh against the Preface It is as easily avoided as Objected If saith he the civill Magistrate even the highest being a Member of the Church be subject to Church-Censure how can this stand with their common Tenent that he must keepe the first Table Reforme the Church be Judge and Governor in all causes as well ecclesiasticall as Civill Secondly how can a Magistrate both sit on the Bench and stand at the Bar of Christ Jesus Is it not as impossible as to reconcile east and west together Yea is not the Text in Isa 49 23. Lamentably wrested to prove both these Reply One Answer may easily remove both Exceptions And that one Text doth expresly hold forth both these Points which the Examiner conceiveth to be so irreconcilable For if Princes be nursing Fathers to the Church as that Text speaketh then they are to provide that the children of
reverend Minister in London Mr. Walker sent over Directions to some friends to demand an 100.li. debt of him which he having borrowed of a Citizen the Citizen bequeathed it to some good use whereof Mr. Walker was called to some Trust But then Mr. Gorton departed out of this Jurisdiction to Plymouth and there beginning to spread some of his Opinions to the disturbance of the Church and fearing disturbance to himselfe he came to Roade-Island and there raising some seditious disturbance against the Magistrates he met with publick correction From thence therefore he went to Providence the place where Mr. Williams and those some friends he spake of sat downe But those friends of Mr. Williams were soone taken with that greater Light which they conceived was held forth by Mr. Gorton What kind of light that was came to our view upon this occasion One or two of the Indian-Sagamores who lived neare Providence came over into the Bay to offer the subjection of themselves and their people to the Government of the English hoping by this meanes to avoyde the oppression of the Narhagansets their potent Neighbours as also of Mr. Gortons company who took their lands from them Afterwards those Indians complaining to our Magistrates of some further injury done to them by Mr. Gortons company our Court sent over to Mr. Gortons company requiring some of them to come over and shew what right they had to those lands which they had taken from the Indians their Subjects He and his company in stead of coming or sending any to cleare their Right sent two Books written by some of themselves full of sundry heresies and malignant blasphemies against Christ against his Churches Ministers Sacraments Censures and Magistrates yet withall offered that if this Court would send their Agents over unto them they would cleare their Right to the Land which they took from the Indians The Court therefore sent over some with Commission to Treat with them and because Gortons company had threatened the former Messengers with the offer of some violence they therefore sent as many armed men with these as might secure their Agents from injury And in case they refused to shew the right and equitie of their cause then to bring some of the principall of them by strong hand to cleare it here When hither they were come not to digresse to another Story Gorton desiring libertie to speak his minde freely held it forth as the minde of himselfe and his company whereof those of Mr. Williams his friends were no small part That Christ was Incarnate when Adam was made after Gods Image For God had but one Image and that Image was Christ And this making of Adam in that Image was the exinanition of Christ But when it was objected that that exinanition of Christ was unto life in Adam but Christ was to suffer exinanition unto death He answered That Christ dyed when the Image of God dyed and the Image of God dyed in Adams fall But when it was further objected That Christs death was the Price and Purchase of our Redemption but the fall of Adam was not the Price of our Redemption but the cause of our condemnation He stopped and would neither proceed to cleare his minde further nor by any meanes be perswaded to revoke that hellish blasphemy These and many such like Tenents were vented by him and his company and this company was made up of those friends of Mr. Williams who as he saith were grieved at his exposall to the mercy of the Wildernesse Which I thought meet to declare lest any should thinke that his sufferings considering the causes of them were grievous or offensive to godly mindes Where by the way a sincere hearted humble Christian may easily discerne the vast difference between the spirit of Mr. Williams and of John the Apostle in relating their sufferings by way of Banishment John was a beloved Disciple yea by way of eminency the Disciple whom Jesus loved and He for the testimony of Jesus was banished by the bloudy Emperour Domitian into the Isle of Patmos a desolate Wildernesse destitute for the most part of Inhabitants yet he maketh no expresse mention of his Banishment nor of the howling Wildernesse nor of frost and snow and such winter miseries But saith he I was in the Isle of Patmos for the Testimony of Jesus But Mr. Williams being called by a weak man beloved in Christ he aggravateth the banishment of such an one as himselfe by all the sad exaggerations which wit and words could well paint it out withall to wit That he was onely for the holy Truth of Christ Jesus denied the common ayre to breath in and a civill cohabitation upon the same common earth yea and without mercy and humane compassion exposed to winter miseries in an howling Wildernesse in frost and snow and that amongst Barbarians So deeply affected the sonnes of men can be in describing their own sufferings for themselves and their own wayes above what the children of God be in their farre greater sufferings for the Testimony of Jesus 3. What causes moved the Magistrates so to proceed against him at that time is fully declared by another faithfull and diligent hand in another Treatise of that matter But whereas he saith He was exposed to the mercies of an howling Wildernesse in frost and snow c. The truth is the Sentence of his Banishment out of the Patent was pronounced against him in the Court before winter and respite was given him to tarry certain weeks six or more to prepare for his journey In the meane time some of his friends went to the place appointed by himselfe before hand to make provision of housing and other necessaries for him against his coming otherwise he might have chosen to have gone either Southward to his acquaintance at Plymouth or Eastward to Pascatoque or Aganimticus And then the wildernesse had been as no wildernesse at least no howling wildernesse where men sit downe under warme and dry Roofes sheltred from the annoyance of frost and snow and other winter hardships 4. When he saith That my selfe profest in speech and writing that I was no procurer of his sorrowes I doe not beleeve that I made any such profession at all either in speech or writing For it was my serious intendment if it had been the will of God to breath in such weake meanes for such an end to have procured his unfained godly sorrow for his Errours in Judgement and for his offensive disturbances of Churches and Common-wealth But this is that which I have professed That I had no hand in procuring or soliciting the Sentence of his Banishment And that not for the cause which he noteth in his margent as if I had some reluctancy in my selfe concerning the way of Persecution For 1. I did never doubt that the way of persecution truly so called that is the affliction of others for righteousnesse sake was utterly unlawfull 2. I did never beleeve that the sentence passed
against him was an act of Persecution 3. Nor did I ever see cause to doubt but that in some cases such as this of his was Banishment is a lawfull and just punishment if it be in proper speech a punishment at all in such a Countrey as this is where the Jurisdiction whence a man is banished is but small and the Countrey round about it large and fruitfull where a man may make his choice of variety of more pleasant and profitable seats then he leaveth behinde him In which respect Banishment in this Countrey is not counted so much a confinement as an enlargement where a man doth not so much loose civill comforts as change them And as for spirituall liberties liberty of Church Ordinances they were a burden and bondage to his spirit here And therefore he cast them off before they left him neither doth he to this day look at it as a way of God for any Christian man to look after the Ordinances of God in a Church-estate at all As conceiving that the Apostasie of Antichrist hath so farre corrupted all that there can be no recovery out of that Apostasie till Christ shall send forth new Apostles to plant Churches anew But as for the true cause why I medled not in his civill Censure it was chiefly because Civill Censures belong unto another Kingdome then that which we are called to administer Civill Censures are not the weapons of our warfare and partly also because I was carried as still I am with a compassion of his Person and likewise of his wife a woman as then of a meek and modest spirit who a long time suffered in spirit as I was informed for his offensive course which occasioned him for a season to withdraw communion in spirituall duties even from her also till at length he drew her to partake with him in the errour of his way But Mr. Williams affirmeth That in Letters past between him and me he proved and exprest that if he had perished in that sorrowfull winters flight onely the bloud of Christ could have washed me from the guilt of his Answ That he did expresse such a thing in some Letters to me as I doe not remember it so neither will I deny it but that he proved it I may as safely deny it as he boldly affirme it Could he then have given any such proofes doubtlesse he would not have concealed them now when he undertaketh to cleare to the world the pretended innocency of himselfe and the supposed iniquitie of his supposed Persecutors How precious the bloud of Christ is to me and how needfull I blesse the Lord my soule knoweth but that I needed it to wash away the guilt of any injurious proceedings against the bloud of Mr. Williams I speake it in holy confidence I never discerned it to this day The proofes which he alledgeth in the sequell for my hand in his Banishment I shall God willing cleare them anon in due place Meane while what answers I made to him concerning the same in other Letters he wisely concealeth but contenteth himselfe to tell us that my finall Answer was That had he perished in his flight his bloud had been upon his own head It was his sinne to procure it and his sorrow to suffer it If this was my finall Answer it seemeth I gave him other former Answers what they were I have now forgotten but I suppose had they been insufficient or impertinent I should have heard of them But what is amisse in this finall Answer The margent noteth it as an unmercifull speech of a mercifull man But when it shall please the Father of mercies of soften the heart of Mr. Williams and to give him an heart and eare to hearken unto the wholesome Counsell of his true friends he will at length see the speech was truly mercifull as well as the man that spake it When a Fountaine is opened to Hierusalem for sinne and for uncleannesse the Prophets who have deceived the people shall at length see and acknowledge their errour and being demanded the cause of the wounds in their hands They shall answer each of them for himselfe thus was I wounded in the house of my Friends Zach. 13.1 with verses 4 5 6. An heart softened with the Bloud of Christ will judge the wounds of his friends faithfull Prov. 27.6 I meane such reproofes for sinne which though they may seeme to wound yet wound to heale David thought such smiting to be a kindnesse yea an excellent Oyle which doth not breake the head but heale the heart Psal 141.5 There is one thing more in his Epistle to the Reader which calleth for Answer It cannot now saith he be justly offensive that finding this Letter publick by whose procurement I know not I now present to publick view my formerly intended Answer Answ It had not been offensive to me that he did present his Answer to publick view if he found my Letter publick without his own or his friends procurement especially if his Answer had been returned in words of truth and faithfulnesse Which how farre they fall short of I hope by the help of Christ will appeare in the sequell Meane while I feare it is justly offensive to the Spirit of Grace and Love That whereas he judged me to allow my selfe and others to rest securely in the Doctrine and Practise of bloudy Persecution that all this while even for the space of nine or ten yeares he suffered me to sleep so long so quietly under the guilt of such a crying sinne Nay it may seeme by his own words if he had not found my Letter publick it may be doubted whether ever I should have heard any further word from him hereabouts at all If I had been esteemed as a Brother sinne should not have been suffered to lie so long upon a Brother Levit. 19.17 If an enemy yet the very Oxe or Asse of an enemy is not to be suffered to lye so long groveling under his burden Deut. 22.4 But when he addeth in the next sentence That he rejoyceth in the goodnesse and wisedome of him who is the Father of lights and mercies in ordering the season of his own present opportunitie of Answer I confesse we on the contrary have cause to admire and adore the wisdome and dreadfull Justice of God herein That seeing Mr. Williams hath been now as a branch cut off from the Church of Salem these many yeares he should bring forth no spirituall good fruits in due season and that which he bringeth forth now at the last is bitter and wild fruit and that in such a season when the Spirit of Error is let loose to deceive so many thousand soules of our English Nation So that now their hearts are become as Tinder ready to catch and kindle at every sparke of false light Even so O Father because thy good pleasure is such to let loose this Spirit of Error in the mouth of this Backslider in the very houre and power of darknesse
himselfe ver 11. it may appeare he is not persecuted for Cause of Conscience but for sinning against his own Conscience 3. In things of lesse moment whether Points of Doctrine or worship if a man hold them forth in a spirit of Christian meeknesse and love though with zeale and constancy he is not to be persecuted but tolerated till God may be pleased to manifest his Truth to him Phil. 3.17 Rom. 14.11 12 13 14. 4. But if a man hold forth or professe any error or false way with a boysterous and arrogant spirit to the disturbance of Civill Peace he may justly be punished according to the measure of the disturbance caused by him This is that way of Persecution which Mr. Williams expresseth to be mine In all which I durst appeale to Mr. Williams his own Conscience were it not Leavened with over-deepe prejudice whether in all this way there be any crevise opening a doore for the Persecution of Christ himselfe bringing further light Let no man take it amisse that in the Parenthesis I intimate the Conscience of Mr. Williams in this case to be leavened with overmuch prejudice For if extreme prejudice were not predominant in him in this case I should stand amazed how a man of understanding could out of such Conclusions make up this Inference which he gives in the Title of the Chapt. pag. 7. That I doe professedly maintaine Persecution for Cause of Conscience I that doe expresly professedly deny Persecution of any even of Hereticks unlesse it be when they come to persist in heresie after conviction against conscience how can I be said to maintaine Persecution for Cause of Conscience But oh the wofull perversenesse and blindnesse of a Conscience when it is left of God to be so farre transported with prejudice as to judge a Cause of Conscience and a cause against Conscience to be all one For the shutting up of his Chapter he is pleased to Comment upon a phrase in my Letter wherein I styled my selfe a man of uncircumcised lips And he doth acknowledge it to be an holy Character of an heavenly Spirit to make an ingenuous and true acknowledgement of an uncircumcised lip Yet saith he that discerning Spirit which God graciously vouchsafeth to them that tremble at his Word shall finde that not onely the will-worships of men may be painted and varnished over with the glittering shew of Humilitie Colos 2. but even Gods dearest servants eminent for humility and meeknesse may yet be troubled with a swelling of spirituall pride out of the very sence of their humilitie c. Humilitie is never in season to set up superstition or persecute Gods children Answ I could intreat some or other of Mr. Williams his acquaintance whose words may finde better acceptance with him then mine doe to perswade him not to attribute too much to his own Spirit of discerning which though he truely saith God doth vouchsafe to them that tremble at his word yet I never read nor heard that God did vouchsafe a Spirit of discerning to any that are so farre from trembling at the word that they doe not vouchsafe to heare the word from the mouth of so many thousand faithfull Ministers of the Gospel As for me I desire not to neglect any word from the mouth of Mr. Williams upon what pretence soever spoken that putteth me in minde of spirituall pride arising out of the very sence of humilitie Such smiting shall not breake my head But when he concludeth with this Aphorisme Humilitie is never in season to set up superstition or to persecute Gods children I desire it may be considered what is Superstition what is Persecution and whether my Letter unto him tended to set up the one or to set forward the other Superstition is properly cultus supra statutum which I speake not from the Etymology of the word for I know Latinists doe otherwise derive it but from the nature of the thing And what is Persecution It hath been answered above the affliction of any for their Righteousnesse sake If it appeare in the sequele that my Letter tended either to set up any worship of God which he hath not appointed or to afflict any for their Righteousnesse sake then I will confesse it tended to set up Superstition and Persecution And the humilitie which he acknowledgeth to be expressed in my Letter I shall acknowledge to be out of season Meane while Affirmanti incumbit Probatio To CHAP. II. His second Chapter is spent in answering to a double charge which he saith he observeth I laid against him Though in very Truth I layd neither of them downe as charges against him but as discharges to my selfe from expecting that He should vouchsafe to hearken to my voyce who had refused to hearken both to the voyce of the body of the whole Church of Salem whereof he was a member and to the voyces of so many Elders and brethren of other Churches But suppose I did charge him with a double sinne in refusing to hearken to this double voyce though I did not say it was a sinne how doth he discharge himselfe For neglect of the former he excuseth himselfe by the charge of his Office which lay upon him on a Fast-day to discover to them eleven publick sinnes as causes of the present and publick calamities Which most of the Church seemed at first to assent unto untill afterwards the greater part of the Church whether for feare of Persecution or otherwise was swayed and bowed to practise such things which with sighes and groanes many of them mourned under But will this indeed discharge an Elder of the Church before the Lord from coming into the presence of the Church when they send for him because the greater part of them are bowed and swayed for feare of Persecution to slip and slide and to say and practise that which with sighes and groanes they mourned under Why then if the Wolfe come and scatter the sheepe and they slip out of the way let the Shepheard fly and leave them that the word of the Lord Jesus might be fulfilled He that is an Hireling and not the Shepheard whose own the sheepe are not he seeth the Wolfe coming and leaveth the sheepe and fleeth and the Wolfe catcheth them and scattereth the sheepe Joh. 10.12 Or will it goe for currant Doctrine before the Lord that if the greater part of a Church fall through feare or otherwise into sinne and such a sinne which they mourne under with sighes and groanes and which in it selfe is not hainous that then they doe ipso facto cease to be a Church and utterly to be cast out Why then let the Covenant between the Lord and his Church be no more reputed any branch of the Covenant of Grace but let it stand and fall as a Covenant of workes But surely if the greater part of the Church were gone astray I should think it would well become the faithfulnesse of a Church-Elder to hasten to them specially when he
to continue in those evills and persecuting the witnesses of the Lord Jesus presenting light to them Reply Those evills What were those evills which wee were resolved to continue in He expresseth none but sure meet it had been that as his voluntary withdrawing from these Churches was publickly known so the evills in which we resolved to continue and for which he withdrew himselfe should in like manner have been publickly knowne also It is an unrighteous thing to passe publick known acts upon private unknowne evills But whatsoever those unknown evills were I suppose he conceiveth them to be such wayes either of Judgement or Practise wherein wee walke according to the light of our Consciences And then by his Rule he should have allowed us the like liberty of conscience which himselfe requireth And surely by the Royall Rule of the Lord Jesus no Brother may be so much as admonished much lesse separated from till he be convinced 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mat. 18.15 And as for persecuting the witnesses of the Lord presenting light to us himselfe for ought I know was the first in this Countrey that ever pretended suffering for bearing witnesse in any matter of Religion true or false And for him to withdraw himselfe from the society of all the Churches for their persecution of him before he had suffered from them any thing but conference and conviction is to make them sufferers for well-doing and to choose suffering that he might have cause to complaine of sufferings Let him if he be able name any one in this Countrey of the witnesses of the Lord for he speaketh of witnesses that ever did so much as pretend before himselfe to suffer Persecution for presenting light to us Thus he maketh that the ground of his withdrawing which was not then in Rerum naturâ no not in pretence till after his withdrawing As a furious School-master will beate a childe for nothing till he cry and then beate him for crying But he further presumeth to affirme That his withdrawing was the act of the Lord Jesus in him sounding forth that Blast which shall one day cast downe the strength and confidence of the Inventions of men in the worship of God Reply If a particular visible Church consisting of visible Saints and united by holy Covenant into one Congregation to worship the Lord and to edifie one another in all his holy Ordinances If such a Church be an Invention of man If Elders called and ordained by them for Administration of these Ordinances be an invention of man If the Covenant of Grace between the Lord and his Church and the Seales thereof and the Censures dispensed against the violation thereof If all these be the Inventions of man then indeed the Lord hath sounded a blast in Mr. Williams his horne to cast down the Inventions of men in the worship of God But if all these be the holy Institutions of the Lord Jesus then let Mr. Williams know that this speech of his is a blast of blasphemy against the Lord Jesus to put upon him that which is the proper worke of Satan to blast all the Churches and Ordinances of Christ And whereas it was wont to be the worke of Antichrist to defile all the Ordinances of Christ it is now the worke of this examiner to deface and abolish them all from the face of the earth Whether of these workes are the more Antichristian It may be he will be ready to say as the Prophet said in another case of Senacherib Isai 10.7 he meaneth not so nor doth his heart thinke so and as Hazael said to the Prophet Is thy servant a dog that he should doe this great thing 2 King 8.13 Sed quid verba audiam cùm facta videam Why doth he separate from all Churches under Heaven and refuse to gather into any Church where himselfe liveth if he did not in these times look at all Church-Estate and Fellowship and Ordinances as not to be found in the Land of the Living Lastly He looketh at it as an act of Christ enabling him to be faithfull in any measure to suffer such great and mightie Tryalls for his Names sake But if the Spirit of the Apostle John had in some measure rested upon him he would no more have mentioned much lesse have magnified his great and mighty Tryalls till he had seene John goe before him in such a like predication of his sufferings who doubtlesse had lesse deserved it and yet suffered more great and mighty Tryalls Revel 1.9 But full vessels make least sound Againe He recoyleth to his civill Banishment and observeth That if by banishing himselfe I meant his Civill Banishment then 1. He discerneth the language of the Dragon in a Lambes lip to put the sufferings of the Saints upon themselves and the Devill 2. That I silently confesse that the frame and constitution of our Churches is implicitly Nationall Else if the Common-wealth and Church were not one how could he that is banished from the one be necessarily banished from the other also Reply It was farre from my meaning and words when I spake of his banishing of himselfe from the Fellowship of all the Churches in the Countrey to intend his civill banishment I knew his civill banishment was not meerly his own Act. I knew also that he might have been banished from the Common-wealth and yet have retained as some others have done Fellowship with some Churches if not with all the Churches in the Countrey And therefore both his observations are but empty flourishes and vanish like Bubbles It is the wilinesse of the Spirit of the Serpent to hide his head under fig-leaved evasions But suppose I had meant by his banishment of himselfe his civill banishment and had meant that by exposing himselfe deservedly to that censure he had deprived himselfe of enjoying all the spirituall liberties of the Churches in the Countrey might I not so have said and yet not have spoken the language of the Dragon What if the Dragon use such language to the Saints suffering innocently may not the Spirit of God use the same words to a guilty person suffering deservedly The language of the Dragon lyeth not alwayes in the words or meaning but in the application and intent of them The Dragon said to Christ I know who thou art the holy One of God Mar. 1.24 Peter might say the same or the like words Mat. 16.16 And yet in his mouth it was not the language of the Dragon but of the Holy Ghost Neither will it imply That the Church and Common-wealth are all one because he that deservedly is banished from the Common-wealth banisheth himselfe also from the communion of the Churches For the same sinnes which may be offensive civilly to the Common-wealth may be also spiritually offensive to the Church and both proceed to censure the same person in their own way severally TO CHAP. IV. IN his fourth Chapter the Examiner answereth to a speech of mine wherein to prevent his prejudice
for this cause because we doe not separate these English hearers from us he separated himselfe and withdre others from hearing the word in our Churches with us which I accounted as great and as unsufferable an injury to the soules of Gods people as it would be to their bodies to withhold the Corne from them or them from the Corne and for that end I produced this Scripture That I produced this Scripture alone to justifie the Sentence of the Court it was not for want of others if that had been the Question but because the scope of my Letter was not to confirme the equitie of his Banishment but to convince the iniquitie of his Separation The mention of the cause of his civill Banishment fell in onely upon the by to remove an objection out of the way that because I denied the act of the Court to be done by my counsell or consent therefore it might seeme I disallowed the sentence To prevent that mistake I acknowledged the righteousnesse of the Sentence and for that end produced that Scripture as that which might give both some just reason before God of his Civill Banishment and also make way for the discovery of his sinne of groundlesse Separation Let no man be so farre mistaken as to thinke that his Separation from the Churches was either the chiefe difference between the Court and him though it was the chiefe between him and me in my Letter or that it was the chiefest offence for which he suffered though he so pretended What though neither corporall nor spirituall food may lawfully be sold or bought but with the good will and consent and authoritie of the owner c. Let him make it appeare that Christ hath not committed the Ministery of the Gospel to us and wee shall give place to others whom Christ shall send Meane while if the budding and blossoming and fruit-bearing of Aarons rod was a witnesse from Heaven that the Lord approved his Ministery against all the murmurings of the Children of Israel Num. 17.5 to 8. We must leave him and others to their murmurings against us and quiet our conscices in an humble blessing of the Lord for his gracious blessing upon our weake labours in that holy Ministery wee have received from him What though the Apostles were to turne away and to shake off the dust of their feete against scorners contradictors despisers persecutors It was not till they had sinned against the Holy Ghost and scorned and persecuted the convincing light of the Gospel Acts 13.45 to 51. Otherwise the Jewes were scorners and persecutors of Christ himselfe and of all that confessed his Name Joh. 9.22 yet still the Apostles ceased not to Preach to them and pray with them Acts 3.1 c. to wit whilest their Persecutors sinned of ignorance ver 17. What though the Apostles were forbidden to Preach to some places He wisely quoteth no Text for it lest the quoting might be the confuting of himselfe He knoweth it was but for a time that others according to the good pleasure of Christs will might be served before them What if Mr. Cotton saw just cause to refuse to sell spirituall Corne in a mis-hallowed Surplice Is it safe therefore for Mr. Williams to shut up his sacks mouth and to refuse to sell corne in his ordinary apparrell What if Mr. Cotton forbeare to administer the Lords Supper to all beleevers or Baptisme unto their children untill the beleevers professe their Faith and Repentance before the Church Is it safe therefore for Mr. Williams to refuse to Breake the Bread of Life unto the Church of Salem whereunto their Election and Ordination of him and his own voluntary acceptance thereof had engaged him unto stuwardly office What though in all Civill Transactions and in all the present disturbances of England principall respect is had unto a right Commission and right Order Let him shew wherein our Commission or Order is defective and reason would we should hearken to him But see the warinesse and slinesse of the Examiner I judge it not saith he seasonable here to entertaine the Dispute of the true Power and call of Christs Ministery An handsome evasion Now when the grounds of his Separation are questioned now when he standeth upon his open justification now in Print before the eyes of all men now he thinketh it not seasonable to entertaine any dispute of such things at all Thus Foelix would heare Paul when he had a more convenient time and yet that was the very time and houre of his visitation Acts 24.25 His evasion of this Text in Prov. 11.26 by comparing it with Deut. 17.12 doth but adde a delusion to an evasion Deut. 17. I suppose he meaneth though his printed copie say Deut. 15. For it is a delusion to make the capitall punishment prescribed against the presumptuous rejection of the Sentence of the chiefest Court in Israel a figure of Excommunication in the Church of Christ For first no Scripture of old or new Testament giveth any intimation of any such figure in this Law And to make a judiciall Law a figure without some light from some Scripture is to make a mans selfe wise above that which is written 2. That law is of morall equitie that is of universall and perpetuall equitie in all Nations in all Ages He that shall presumptuously appeale from or rise up against the sentence of the chiefest and highest Court in a free State is guilty Laesae majestatis publicae and therfore as a capitall offender to be censured in any free Common-wealth 3. This Law in Deut. 17. provided an effectuall punishment against such presumptuous offenders and an effectuall remedy against all such like presumption in others that all Israel might heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously ver 13. But so doth not Excommunication For what if an Excommunicate person presume against the sentence of Christ in his Church as Mr. Williams doth against the Sentence of the Church of Salem doth the power of the Church provide that all the Israel of God may heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously Is the figure become more powerfull and effectuall then the substance the shadow then the body the type then the Antitype From this mistaken Figure the Examiner would inferre The withholding of the Corne presumptuously to be death in Israel but not so in every State of the world much lesse the pleading against a false Ministery to be a capitall crime for as for Banishment never such a course was heard of in Israel Answ That law in Deut. hath nothing to doe with the withholding of Corne presumptuously unlesse there had first passed some sentence of the Soveraigne Court against the withholding of Corne. But otherwise ordinary sinnes of presumption doe fall under the Judicature of another Law Num. 15.30 31. Neither hath this Text in Solomons Proverbs any thing to doe with that Law in Deut. 17. nor with capitall punishment Solomon doth not say that every man that withholdeth his corne
VI. THough my Letter expresseth That it may be the Court passed that sentence against Mr. Williams not upon that ground from Prov. 11.26 but for ought I know for his other corrupt Doctrines suitable to his Practises tending to the disturbance of Civill and holy Peace Yet I doe not therefore question as he saith I seeme to doe the sandinesse of such a ground as that place of Seripture to warrant such proceedings nor doe I therein confsesse that my selfe had no distinct knowledge of the causes of his Banishment For I did not alledge that place of Scripture as a ground upon which the Court proceeded to his Banishment and therefore I said in my Letter it may be they passed Sentence not upon that ground But I alledged it as a reason which provoked the Lord to moove the Court to proceed against Mr. Williams for such other offensive and disturbant Doctrines and Practises against the Patent and against the oath of fidelitie and against the Magistrates delay of the Petition of Salem which he himselfe knoweth I had distinct knowledge of before which maketh me the more to marvell at his wonder Where was my waking care in his behalfe Whereas he knoweth I spent a great part of the Summer in seeking by word and writing to satisfie his scruples in the former particulars untill he rejected both our callings and our Churches And even then I ceased not to follow him still with such meanes of conviction and satisfaction in that Point also as God brought to my hand whereof this very Letter which he examineth and answereth is a pregnant and evident demonstration What though in this Letter I did not name his other corrupt Doctrines and Practises nor any Scriptures to prove them corrupt His heart knoweth full well both the Points and the Scriptures that were charged upon him all that Summer And to have rehearsed them againe in this Letter it had been but actum agere neither was it the worke in hand For having done it before wee looked for some satisfactory answer but in stead thereof wee received onely a rejection of our callings and Churches so that there was nothing now left but to endeavour to satisfie his Conscience in the sandinesse of those grounds upon which he rejected communion with us TO CHAP. VII IN the 7th Chapter Mr. Williams examineth those words of my Letter wherein I say that were my soule in his soules stead I should accept it as a mercy of God to banish me from the Civill Society of such a Common-wealth where I could not enjoy holy Fellowship with any Church of God amongst them without sinne For what should the daughter of Zion doe in Babel Why should shee not hasten to flee from thence To this the Examiner answereth that though his love bids him to hope that Mr. Cotton herein intended him a Cordiall yet if the Ingredients be examined there will appeare no lesse then dishonour to the Name of God danger to every Civill State a miserable comfort to him and a contradiction within it selfe Reply It is true what I wrote was in love to his soule but I intended not a cordiall of consolation to him for I did not conceive his Spirit at the present prepared for it but I intended onely a conviction to abate the rigour of his indignation against the dispensation of divine Justice And therefore presented before him the mercy of God in that Administration But he beginneth with the last first to shew me the evill of these Ingredients And first for the contradiction to my selfe in that I speake of the daughter of Zion in Babel If he call saith he the Land Babel how can it be Babel and the Church of Christ also As if Zion cannot be in Babel but it must be Babel or as if the Church cannot be in the world but it must be the world Or as if when I call the Land Babel I speake of it as it is in it selfe and not rather as it is in his apprehension the Churches in his imagination still holding communion with Antichristian Babylon Secondly He maketh it a dangerous Doctrine to affirme it a misery to live in that State where a Christian cannot enjoy the fellowship of the publick Churches of God without sinne Reply 1. Though I doe affirme it to be a mercy to be delivered out of such a State yet I doe not affirme it to be a misery to live in it It is a mercy to be translated not onely from misery to happinesse but from a lesse good to a greater It is a mercy to a faithfull soule to be translated from a Saint to a Minister and yet Saintship is no misery 2. It is some degree of misery and no small one to a spirituall minde for a Christian to live where he cannot enjoy the fellowship of Churches or else David complained without cause Woe is me that I am constrained to dwell in Meshek Psal 120 5. 42.4 What if there be many famous States wherein no Church of Jesus Christ is knowne Is it not a mercy to be dismissed from such a State to a Land of more liberty and piety What if God commanded his people to Pray for the Peace of materiall Babel whilest they were forced to abide in it Was it not therefore a mercy from God for Cyrus to deliver them out of Babel What if Sodom Aegypt Babel be spiritually understood Rev. 11.8 14.8 Is it not therefore a mercy when God calleth his People out of such Dungeons and sinkes of abomination What if there were a true Church in materiall Babel 1 Pet. 5.13 Let him remember what he spake a little before That if I speake not of Babel mystically I speake not to the Point Let him apply it to himselfe Wherefore doth he tell us againe of his being driven into the miseries of an howling Wildernesse 1. It was no howling Wildernesse when he came to it as hath been said above 2. He might have gone to other English Plantations Eastward Pascatoque and Agaminticus 3. Solomon telleth us It is better to live in a Wildernesse then with a contentious and angry woman Prov. 21.19 And such he accounteth all our Churches and Courts to be Thirdly saith he Mr. Cotton himselfe would have counted it a mercy if he might have Practised in Old-England what he doth in New-England with the enjoyment of Civill Peace c. Reply True but what is that to the purpose The Question is if I could not enjoy the Fellowship of publick Churches without sinne as in those dayes I could not whether then I would account it a mercy to be removed Verily I doe so account it and blesse the Lord from my soule for his aboundant mercy in forcing me out thence in so fit a season But further saith he what if Mr. Cotton should dissent from the new English-Churches and joyne in worship with some other as some few yeares since he was upon the Point to doe in a separation from the Churches
Philistims and yet not disanull their Church-estate And by like proportion so may a Church of Christ take up some orders as the carting of some part of their worship upon a Book after the manner of Antichrist and yet not forthwith evacuate their Church-estate But this let me further adde that a godly person may have some kinde of communion so farre as hearing the word from a Minister well gifted by Christ to whose calling some corruption may cleave both in his Church-estate and in his Ordination And yet neverthelesse no Antichristian Pollution at all may cleave or redound to the hearer by his hearing of him And this being the Principall Exception which the Examiner taketh against some of the members of our churches against all the churches for their sakes we shall further God willing cleare when the Examiner putteth it upon us in the sequele Meane while we professe as we doe beleeve that such an action is not any Church-cōmunion with Antichrist nor doth so enthrall the People of God unto Antichrist as to separate them from Christ no not as he is Head of the visible Church The Answer which upon occasio of this Point the Examiner giveth to the Papists Question Where was your Church before Luther though it seeme to him well and good yet it gratifieth the Papists and straitneth the holy Counsell of God in Scripture The Question saith he is thus well answered to wit That since the Apostasie of Antichrist Truth and the holy Citie according to the Prophecy Rev. 11. 13. have been troden under-foot and the whole Earth hath wandered after the Beast yet God hath stirred up witnesses to Prophecy in sackcloth against the Beast during his 42 moneths Reigne Neverthelesse these witnesses have in their times more or lesse submitted to Antichrist and his Church Worship Ministery c. And so consequently have been ignorant of the true Church that is Christ taken for the Church in the true Profession of that holy way of worship which he himselfe at first appointed This Answer giveth away the cause to the Papists They demand Where was your Church before Luther This Answer giveth it for granted that since the Apostasie there was no particular church extant in the world This fully satisfieth their desire and expectation for if there were no Church of Christ in the world for so many Centuries of yeares till Luther then they readily conclude That their Church of Rome was before Luther the onely Church in the world For they urge it and I know not how we can fairely deny it that the Church of Christ even that Church to which the keys of the kingdome are committed which is the visible Church is that against which the Gates of Hell shall not be able to prevaile and so not all the Power of Antichrist If then the visible Church of Christ shall never cease and yet during all that time of the Apostasie of Antichrist no Church was extant in the world but the Church of Rome then during all that time which is not yet expired the Church of Rome is and hath been the onely Church of Christ these many ages Besides as this Answerer gratifieth the Papist and maketh the promise of Christ Mat. 16.18 19 of none effect so it straitneth the Counsell of God in the very Texts of Scripture alledged by himself For in that Text Rev. 11. where the outward Court is given to the Gentiles that is Ecclesiasticall Courts given to Antichrist his Clergy v. 2. There also a rod or reed is given by the Angel unto John to measure the Temple of God and the Altar and them that worship therein v. 1. Which evidently holdeth forth that even then there was somewhere extant the Temple that is the visible Church of Christ which had communion with Christ as Head of the Church there called The Altar and the Temple was furnished with true worshippers and all measured according to the Patterne of Apostolicall Rule What if Ecclesiasticall Stories be deficient in telling us the times and places of their Church-Assemblies Is therefore the Word of God deficient or the Church deficient because humane Stories are deficient Great hath been the industry and vigilancy of Satan and Antichrist to blot out as much as in them lay all Monuments and Records of such holy Assemblies but yet sometimes their own Inquisitors confesse that the Churches of the Waldenses or men of that way have been extant a tempore Apostolorum Furthermore evident it is that when the Dragon persecuted the woman that is the Church the Church fled into the Wildernes and was there nourished for a time and times and halfe a time Rev. 12.14 which is all the time wherein the Beast reigned Rev. 13.5 And wherein the Gentiles having obtained Rule in the Court trod downe the holy Citie under-foote Rev. 11.2 Moreover evident also it is that all the Angels or Ministers of Gods wrath that poured out their Vialls upon the Antichristian State did all of them issue forth out of the Temple and out of the Temple as then opened Rev. 15.5 6 Which argueth that the Temple or Church was not onely then visible but openly visible not visible onely to the secret Assembly of the true worshippers but openly conspicuous to them that had not seene it before Now how all those seven Angels should come out of the Temple and it openly visible and all of them poure out their Vialls upon the Antichristian State by seven Degrees to the utter desolation of it and yet no Church extant either before Luther or since Luther till the utter extirpation of Antichrist passeth all my comprehension TO CHAP. XIII HIs 13th Chapter is taken up in Examining and Answering a second Answer which I gave to his Objection propounded above in Chap. 10. The Answer was this as he setteth it downe Secondly we deny that it is necessary to Church-fellowship that is so necessary that without it a Church cannot be That the members admitted thereunto should all of them see and expresly bewaile all the pollutions which they have been defiled with in their former Church-fellowship Ministery worship Government c. If they see and bewaile so much of their former pollutions as did enthrall them to Antichrist so as to separate them from Christ and withall be ready in preparation of heart as they shall see more light so to hate more and more every false way This we conceive to be as much as is necessarily required to separate them from Antichrist unto fellowship with Christ and his Churches c. For Answer hereunto the Examiner desireth three things to be observed 1. Mr. Cottons own Confession of that two-fold Church-estate worship c. The former false or else why to be so bewailed and forsaken The second true to be embraced and submitted to Reply This observation is more then is intended or can justly be gathered from my words For even a true Estate of a Church Worship Ministery c. may be bewailed
Truths be Besides there is no need either for the clearing of our members or of our Church-estate to plead for the capablenesse of godly persons of Church-estate notwithstanding their ignorance of the Truths of God whether more or lesse necessary For wee doe not look at it as any point of ignorance at all for our members to believe they may partake in the gifts of the godly Ministers in England in hearing the word of God from them I know the Examiner is vehement and peremptory in pleading for an absolute necessitie that godly persons before they doe joyne to a true Church and Ministery should see and bewaile so much as may amount to cut off the soule from a false Church whether Nationall Parishionall or any other falsly constituted Church Ministery Worship and Government of it But the voyce of God is not alwayes in every vehement and mightie winde that rendeth mountaines and breaketh rockes 1 Kings 19.11 The Examiner is not ignorant that we have seene and bewailed Nationall and Parishionall Church-estate and have cut off our selves by the Grace of Christ from any invented worship or government of it yea and from such entrance into the Ministery or Administration of it as was corrupt either by Nationall or Parishionall Relation But this is that which he requireth further He I say but not the Lord that wee should cut off our selves from hearing the Ministery of the Parishes in England as being the Ministery of a Nationall or Parishionall Church whereof both the Church-estate is falsly constituted and all the Ministery Worship and Government thereof false also But two things here may suffice to answer this clamour 1. Suppose all this were true that he clamoureth but prooveth not yet this would I faine learne wherein lieth the sinne of our members in hearing the godly Ministers in the Parishes Why saith he in that they doe not cut off themselves from a false Ministery Now by the Ministery may be meant either the office of the Ministery or the exercise of the office and gifts of the Ministery From the office and from the exercise of the office our members have cut off themselves partly by submitting themselves to a Ministery of their own Election in these Churches and partly by submitting themselves to no act of their Ministeriall office in England but what an Indian or any Pagan might partake in who yet is cut off farre enough from fellowship in their office Cutting off is an act of disunion and somewhat more violent and keene then it may be the Examiner requireth The sinne he chargeth upon our members in hearing such Ministers is union or communion with them And what shall wee say is there no Communion between our members and the Ministers in England whom they doe heare Yes doubtlesse For 1. There is a naturall communion between the speaker and the hearer the one giveth counsell or instruction or reproofe or comfort and the other receiveth it 2. There is a morall Communion between a Teacher and a learner and doubtlesse our hearers may learne many precious Truths from them 3. What shall I say further Is there not also a spirituall Communion between the Preacher and the Hearer when the Preacher communicateth many spirituall and heavenly Points and the Hearer receiveth them Answ 1. Some would say It is not necessary that this should breed a spirituall Communion between the Preacher and the Hearer No more then it maketh a Mathematicall Communion between a reader of the Mathematicks and the learner of some Principles or Conclusions from him But 2. I would rather answer otherwise For suppose a member of our Churches though a visible Saint here yet indeed an hypocrite should occasionally heare a Minister in England and by the Power of the Spirit of Grace breathing in his Ministery be effectually brought home to Christ and by lively faith united to him Here is a spirituall Relation and Communion wrought between them the one is a spirituall Father the other a naturall Sonne in the Faith Neverthelesse this I would say that this spirituall Communion is not between this Hearer and this Minister in respect of his Office but in respect of his Gifts and of the Power of the Spirit of Grace breathing in the dispensation of his Gifts In which respect this Communion doth not amount to Church-communion Any stranger might enjoy as much Any Pagan Corinthian might come in and heare in the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 14.24 25. and reape a blessing thereby who yet had not Ecclesiasticall Communion with their Office Also the Prophet Jeremy heard the false Prophet Hanani yea and in some sence said Amen to his Prophecy yet had he no communion with his false Office Jer. 28.1 to 6. If he still urge that we have not yet cut off our selves from communion no not with the false office of the Ministery of England and with their false Church-estate in as much as we still retaine their Baptisme wherein we subjected our selves to their Office and to their Church-estate which are both false as well as their Worship and their Government Answ This is a further Objection then he held forth whilest he continued with us and therefore no marvell if my Letter spake nothing to it But therefore let me now propound another Point which may suffice both for an Answer to this Objection as also for a second Answer unto the former clamour and exception against hearing of the godly Ministers in England The Point is this That I doe not see how the Examiner can justifie his grievous charge that their Church is falsly constituted whether Nationall or Parishionall and accordingly that their Ministery Worship and Government are all of them false Foure things he chargeth to be false 1. Their Church constitution Parishionall and Nationall 2. Their Ministers 3. Their Worship 4. Their Government For the first touching the constitution of their Parishionall Churches let it be considered what I said before that where there be visible Saints there is the true matter of the Church and where there is a Covenant or Agreement whether explicite or implicite to assemble together in one Congregation to worship the Lord and to edifie one another in the Ordinances of Christ there is for substance the true forme of a Church And where there is the true matter and true forme of a Church it cannot be truely said that such a Church is falsly constituted For there being but two causes of which a thing is constituted matter and forme whatsoever hath true matter and true forme is truly constituted Against this what he will accept I doe not know and therefore know not how to prevent him with a fit and just defence But by others two things are wont to be objected Object 1. From the matter of the Church Object 2. From the efficient cause of the Church From the matter of the Church it is objected that there be not onely visible Saints in the English Parishes but with them are mingled many
ignorant and scandalous persons drunkards whoremongers despisers and persecutors of them that are good Prophane swearers that have not so much as a forme of godlinesse but doe utterly deny and deride the power of it Answ This is indeed just matter of mourning and lamentation to all the Saints of Christ and may be also in due order just warrant of some degree of separation from them as from a corrupt Church It cannot but offend and deeply grieve the spirit of a Christian to sit downe at the Lords Table and drinke the bloud of the Lord with such who may be ready the next day to spill the bloud of sincere Communicants as Puritan Round-Heads But whilest the Saints of Christ continue amongst them the mixt fellowship of ignorant and prophane persons doth not evacuate or disanull their Church estate The store of malignant and noysome humours in the body yea the deadnesse and rottennesse of many members in the body though they may make the body an unsound and corrupt body yet they doe not make the body no body When the Prophet Isaiah complained that in the Church of Judah from the soale of the foote to the crowne of the head there was no soundnesse in it but wounds and bruises and putrifying sores yet whilest there was a Remnant amongst them of faithfull Saints they were not yet no Church they were not yet Sodome and Gomorrha though but for that Remnant they had been as Sodome and like unto Gomorrha Isa 1.6 with 9. Say not though Hierusalem and Judah were at that time degenerate yet they had been at first an holy Nation a faithfull Citie Isa 1.21 and so had a true constitution which the Churches of England never had For 1. I might answer That though in regard of some prime members Hierusalem was counted a faithfull Citie and the Nation Holy by Priviledge of their Covenant yet for the body of the people Hierusalem was alwayes a City of the provocation of Gods wrath from the day they built it Jer. 32.31 32. And for the body of the Nation Moses charged them Yee have alwayes been rebellious against the Lord since the day that I knew you Deut. 9.7.24 And Stephen protesteth against them They had alwayes wont to resist the Holy Ghost they and their fathers Act. 7.51 2. I doe not understand but that according to Scripture those corruptions which doe not destroy a Church constituted the same do not destroy the constitution of a Church The Church is constituted and continued by the same Grace 3. The estate of the Churches of England was not corrupt in their first constitution Baronius himselfe confesseth that England received the Gospel ten yeares before Rome and that from the Ministery of the Apostles and Apostolick men who doubtlesse constituted the English Churches not after the manner of Rome which was then Pagan but after the Apostolick Rules and Patternes This may suffice touching the matter of the English Churches Now touching the second thing objected which was from the efficient cause of their constitution It is said they were gathered not by the preaching of the Gospel by which Churches should be planted and constituted but by the Proclamation of Princes Answ 1. The efficient cause of a Church is a thing without the Church and so no essentiall cause of the Constitution of a Church The Proclamation of King Hezekiah and of the Princes drew on multitudes of Apostate Israelites to the Communion of the Church at Hierusalem and many of them in much pollution yet neither their own pollution nor the Proclamation of the King and Princes did evacuate their Church-estate but encourage them rather in their Church-worke 2 Chron. 30.5 to 9. and verses 11 12.17 18 19 20. It was no pollution to the second Temple at Hierusalem that it was built by the encouragement of the Proclamation of Cyrus Ezra 1. Answ 2. Wheresoever there be visible Saints gathered into a Church they were first gathered by the Ministery of the Gospel For Proclamations cannot make Saints but the word of the Gospel onely If any hypocrites or time-servers doe for feare joyne themselves with the Saints in such a worke though their fellowship may weaken and blemish the worke yet it doth not destroy it Thus much touching the constitution of their Parishionall Churches Now touching their Nationall Constitution it standeth partly in their Nationall Officers Archbishops Bishops and their Servitors partly in their Nationall Synods and convocations and partly also in their Nationall Ecclesiasticall Courts The Examiner is not ignorant that by the Grace of Christ we have withdrawen our selves and our Churches also from this Nationall Constitution and from all Communion with them If it be said But we still keepe Communion with the Parish-Churches in hearing the Word there who doe subject themselves to these Nationall Officers Convocations and Courts Answ 1. Though the Parish-Churches were lately subject to them it was a burden which as they did discerne the iniquitie thereof they groaned under and now by the mightie Power of the gracious Redemption of the Lord Jesus they have shaken off through the helpe of the Honorable and Religious Prudence and Piety of the Parliament 2. Though those Nationall Courts in their Officers did for many yeares tread downe the Parish-Churches yet they did not extinguish their Church-estate The Text is plaine The Gentiles that is men of Gentile-like prophanenesse and malignitie and iniquitie who had the keeping of the Church-Courts they did tread downe the Holy City Rev. 11.2 Tread downe I say but not destroy the Holy City Yea though the Translation reade it They did tread it downe or Tread it under-foote yet the Originall word may be rendred somewhat more mildly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may expresse their walking upon it or else the Peripateticks were a more violent sect then either their Principles or their Practise did declare them I come now to speake of the second Falshood which the Examiner chargeth upon the English Churches which was the falsenesse of their Ministery which wherein it lyeth he should have done well to have told us for himselfe disliketh it in me to wander in Generalities But for our selves we are farre from that supercilious and Pharisaicall arrogancy as to condemne such for false Ministers in whom we finde Truth of Godlinesse Truth of Ministeriall Gifts Truth of Election and acceptance unto Office by true Churches of Christ Truth of sound wholesome and soule-saving Doctrine and Truth of holy and exemplary Conversation And such are all the Ministers whom either the members of our Churches affect to Heare or our Churches doe allow them ordinarily for to Heare And when I say Truth I speake it not in opposition to Eminency for sundry of them excell in Eminency of sundry of these things but in opposition to the falshood which the Examiner objecteth I know not what exception lyeth against their Ministery to argue it of falshood save what hath been excepted and answered already touching the constitution
dust and ashes Reply 1. It is an exorbitant Hyperbole to make every passage of spirituall whoredome a sinne infinitely transcendent above bodily whoredome For spirituall whoredome is not infinite in the act of it but onely in respect of the object of it to wit in respect of the infinite God against whom it is committed And is not bodily whoredome infinite in that respect also Can a man defile himselfe with bodily whoredome and not sinne against the infinite God What saith Joseph Gen. 39.9 2. What if spirituall whoredome though lesse evident be more sinfull then bodily The nature of true Evangelicall Repentance standeth not in seeing and bewailing every sinne no nor alwayes of the greatest but of those which are most evident and notorious A Christian man may more safely omit repentance of greater sins if unknowne then of lesse sinnes knowne I suppose the Israelites were guiltie of many Idolatries and superstitions in the dayes of Samuel yet their repentance was chiefly fastned upon their asking of a King of which they were then principally convinced 1 Sam. 12.19 And such Repentance was then accepted of the Lord and of Samuel ver 22 23. The very truth is the ground and roote of the Examiners Error in this case is That he maketh Church-Covenant to be no better then a Covenant of workes whereas indeed if Church-Covenant be not a branch of the Covenant of grace the Churches of Christ are not built upon Christ In a Covenant of workes all sinnes must be avoyded or if not avoyded yet repented of expresly and the greatest sinnes most But in Evangelicall Repentance God dealeth not with us after our sinnes nor rewardeth us according to our Iniquities Psal 103.10 The Grace of Christ is not given either to his Church or to any Christian upon the perfection of our Repentance nor upon our Repentance of our greatest sinnes in the greatest measure But if the heart be truly humbled for any knowne sinne as sinne though the sinne knowne be often lesse hainous then others unknowne yet God accepteth his own worke and putteth away all sinne in the acknowledgement of one Yea in sinnes that be knowne the compunction of the heart is sometimes more expressed for the occasions and inducements of the sinne which are lesse hainous then for the greater sinnes which are more grievous and dangerous Solomon in his solemne Repentance in the Booke of Ecclesiastes doth more expresly bewaile his entanglement with lewd women Eccles 7.27 28. then all his Idolatrous Temples and worship which were erected and maintained at his charge By the Examiners Doctrine Solomon had never been received and restored to the Church upon that Repentance His second Answer is That though the converted Jewes did not see all the leavenings of the Pharisees yet they mourned for killing of Christ and embraced him in his Worship Ministery Government c. and thereupon necessarily followeth a withdrawing from the Church Ministery and Worship of the false Christ c. Reply This answer doth not reach the defence of his cause to wit That it is absolutely necessary unto Church-fellowship to see and bewaile not onely actuall whoredomes but also whorish speeches gestures appearances provocations Yet here he granteth that the converted Jewes did not see all the leavenings of the Pharisees which yet were such as in the end of that Paragraph he implyeth they had deteined them under a false Christ But whereas he saith that they by embracing Christ in his Worship and Ministery there necessarily followed a withdrawing from the Church Ministery and worship of the false Christ It may truely be Replyed 1. That he will not grant us that liberty that upon our embracing of Christ in his worship Ministery there necessarily followeth our withdrawing from the Church Ministery and Worship wherein we had been formerly polluted in any sort Is not this to deteine the glorious Truth of our Lord Jesus with respect of Persons 2. It is evident by the Story that some of those members of the Church of Hierusalem who had been leavened by the sect of the Pharisees they did neither see nor bewaile nor did come off from fellowship with the Pharisees in their Ministery and false Doctrine which taught the necessitie of Circumcision and of the whole Law of Moses to justification and salvation Acts 15.1.5 As for the confession of sinne by the Disciples unto John Baptist Mat. 3. and by the Gentiles unto Paul Act. 19. though it be not said that the one sort confessed their Pharisaicall pollutions nor the other all their Deeds Yet saith he if both these confest their notorious sinnes as Mr. Cotton confesseth why not as well their notorious sinnes against God their Idolatries superstitions worships c Surely throughout the whole Scripture the matters of God and his worship are first and most tenderly handled c. Answ It is not true that the matters of Gods worship and defects there are alwayes most tenderly acknowledged throughout the Confessions of the Saints in Scripture Solomon in his Repentance was most sparing of confession of his Idolatrous Temples and worships And the People in Samuel did more repent of asking a King then of all their other sinnes and yet their Idolatries were then flagrant 1 Sam. 12 9 10 11. Besides wee never reade of such deepe Humiliation of David for carting the Arke after the manner of the Philistims as of his bodily adultery with Bathshebah and murder of Vriah The substance of my other Answer to his former Objection which was to prove a necessitie lying upon godly men to see and bewaile their pollutions in a former Church-fellowship before they can be fit matter for a new It was to this purpose that we have not been wanting through the guidance of the grace of Christ to performe that which he pleadeth for so farre as God hath called us to it the which I expressed in my Letter in two particulars 1. That the body of our members doe in generall Professe that the reason of their coming over to us was that they might be freed from the bondage of humane Inventions and Ordinances under which as their soule groaned there so they have professed their sorrow so farre as through ignorance or infirmitie they have been defiled there 2. That in our daily meetings especially in the times of our solemne Humiliations we doe generally all of us bewaile all our former Pollutious wherewith we have defiled our selves and the holy things of God in our former Administrations and Communions the which we have rather chosen to doe then to talke of and therefore doe marvell that he should so resolutely renounce us for that which he knew not whether we had neglected or no and before he had admonished us of our sinfulnesse in such neglect if it had been found amongst us Whereto his Answer is That we make no mention what such Inventions and Ordinances what such Administrations and Communions were which we confessed and bewailed Reply And yet lest he should
first of these I answered in my Letter That in stead of halting betwixt Christ and Antichrist the Lord hath guided us to walke with an even foote between two extreames so that we neither defile our selves with the remnants of pollution in other Churches nor doe we for the remnants of pollution renounce the Churches themselves nor the holy things of God amongst them which our selves have found powerfull to salvation This moderation so farre as we have kept it in preaching or printing we have seene no cause to repent of it But if any shall shew us cause why we should repent of it we shall desire to repent of it yea and to repent that we repented no sooner The Examiner here undertaketh to prove this middle walking to be no lesse then-halting of which we have cause to repent And this he endeavours to prove to me out of mine own Confessions First saith he Mr. Cotton himselfe confesseth that no Nationall Provinciall Diocesan or Parish Church wherein some truely godly are not are true Churches Secondly He practiseth no Church-estate but such as is constituted onely of godly persons nor admitteth any unregenerate or ungodly persons Thirdly He confesseth that a Church of Christ cannot be constituted of such godly persons who are in bondage to the inordinate love of the world Fourthly That if a Church consist of such Gods people ought to separate from them Reply If these which he calleth confessions of Mr. Cotton have been stumblings to him I shall by the helpe of Christ soone remove them out of his way For I doe professe that I never made any such Confessions but looke at them all as contrary to my judgement both in former times and to this day For the first Though there were no truely godly persons in a Church yet if there be such as professe godlinesse such as they call visible Saints to meete together in a Congregation to worship the Lord and to edifie one another in the administration of his holy Ordinances I doe beleeve there is truth of Church-estate It is true I doe beleeve and confesse that God requireth more then profession of godlinesse even sinceritie of holinesse in Church-members and it is no small sinne in them if it be wanting But what if some if most if all beleeve not Shall their unbeliefe make the faith of God of none effect God forbid Rom. 3.3 4. If an hypocriticall Church were no Church then an hypocriâ—â—call Minister were no Minister and his administrations nullities Cultus institutus in the whole latitude of it as Churches Min isteries Seales Censures c. they are all ordained for the Elects sake And the Elect God would have them to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without carefull scruples and distractions If truth of Churches and Ministeries and Ordinances depended upon the personall sincerity of the godlinesse of the dispensers the Elect of God would ever be intangled with inextricable scruples touching their coÌ„munion here or there with this or that Church or the administrations of the Officers thereof But God hath called us in peace For the second part which he maketh of my Confessions he had said true if he had said I endeavour such a thing that our Church should be constitute of godly persons but I doe not say I have attained it for God seeth not as man seeth man looketh at the outward appearance but the Lord regardeth the heart 1 Sam. 16.7 And sure I am we looke at Infants as members of our Church as being foedurally holy but I am slow to beleeve that all of them are regenerate or truly godly As for the third and fourth point which he maketh of my Confession That a Church of Christ cannot be constituted of godly persons taken with the inordinate love of the world or that a Church consisting of such ought to be separated from These are onely his own palpable mistakes of those words of mine which I expressed as the summe of his words which he through hast conceived to be mine whereof we have spoken in the 20th Chapter Let him not say as he doth that when I would not have Parish Churches to be separated from for the remnants of pollutions I mean onely Ceremonies and Bishops neither let him say that I doe extenuate and mince the roote masse and substance of the matter of Nationall Churches though for the greater part unregenerate by naming onely a remnant of pollutions For he knoweth we wholly avoyde Nationall Provinciall and Diocesan Government of the Churches by Episcopall Authority He knoweth also we avoyde their prescript Liturgies and Communion with openly scandalous persons in any Church-order He knoweth likewise or at least may know that it is a continuall sorrow of heart and a mourning of our soules that there is yet so much of those notorious evills which he nameth still continuing in the Parishes worldlinesse ignorance superstition scoffing swearing cursing whoredome drunkennesse theft lying I may adde also murther and malignity against the godly suffered to thrust themselves into the fellowship of the Churches and to sit downe with the Saints at the Lords Table But yet I count all these but remnants of pollution when as the substance of the true estate of Churches abideth as I opened above in their Congregationall Assemblies And in so speaking I follow the holy patterne of the Prophet Isaiah who acknowledging a great forsaking or Apostacy in the midst of the Land yet resembleth the estate of the Church to an Oake whose substance is in it when the leaves fall off and maketh the holy seed to be that substance Isai 6.12 13. TO CHAP. XXII THe second offence which the Examiner tooke at our neglect of the Churches of the separation Was the reproach of himselfe and others at Salem for their separation To which I answered in my Letter That I knew no man who reproached Salem for their separation nor did I beleeve that they did separate Howsoever if any did reproach them for it I did thinke it a sinne meete to be Censured but not with so deepe a Censure as to excommunicate all the Churches or to separate from them before it doth appeare that they doe tolerate their members in such their causlesse reproachings The errors of men are to be contended against not with reproaches but with the sword of the Spirit But on the other side the failings of the Churches are not forthwith to be healed by separation It is not Chirurgery but Butchery to heale every sore in a member with no other but Abscission from the body Whereto the Examiner answereth That the Church of Salem was knowne to professe separation and publickly reproached yea he could mention a Case wherein shee was punished for it implicitely Reply This answer is so implicit that I cannot make an explicite answer to it That which I said was I knew no man that reproached Salem for their separation nor did I beleeve that they did separate His answer is That the Church of Salem was knowne
to professe separation which crosseth not what I said for it might be so and yet I knew not of it unlesse the profession had been more publick Nor did I ever perceive that they refused communion with us when any of them came over to us If they were publickly reproached for separation it was more then I heard of till I read it in his Booke And for any publick punishment that Salem suffered for it I may well say it was implicitly if at all for surely there is no Law of the Countrey that punisheth such an offence it her explicitly or implicitly But since he is pleased to conceale it I see no cause of giving account of it Nextly He takes up from me a Confession of two things which he leaveth to me to reconcile 1. That I say if any reproach them for Seperation it is a sinne meete to be Censured 2. That Churches themselves may be separated from who tolerate their members in such causelesse reproachings Reply It is true that I doe not account reproaches which are a worke of the flesh a meete remedy to heale an error And therefore the reproacher meete to be delt withall either by private admonition if it were publick But the latter of the two things which he saith I confesse I am farre from either confessing it or beleeving it to wit That the Churches themselves may be separated from who tolerate their members in such causelesse reproachings I said indeed that a causelesse reproach is a sinne meete to be censured But I said withall it is not to be censured with so deepe a Censure as excommunication especially of all the Churches and that too before that it doe appeare that they doe tolerate their members in such their causelesse reproachings But it may be he will say doth it not imply that if it doth appeare that they doe tolerate their members in such causelesse reproaches that then I thinke they are to be separated from Answ No verily Put it in a like case Suppose a childe should miscall and revile his Mothers Sister I might say it is a fault meete to be corrected yet not with so deepe a correction as to be disinherited or that his Mother should be dispossessed of her inheritance before it doe appeare that she doe tolerate her childe in such revilings Would such a speech inferre that in case it did appeare his Mother did tolerate him that then his Mother were to be dispossessed of her inheritance The true meaning of my speech was to expresse that such a sinne as reproaching of a Church for a sin might deserve a Censure yet not forthwith excommunication much lesse the Church to be excommunicated whereof such an one is a member and least of all before it did appeare that the Church knew of it or did tolerate it The scope of my speech was not to hold forth the grievous desert of a reproach but the groundlesse proceeding unto separation for a reproach both against a member and against the Church that tolerated him without any further conviction or obstinacy which was the case in hand of Mr. Williams Some body he saith reproached the Church of Salem for separation some member of some Church But what member of what Church he saith not And yet this is one of the stumbling blocks that turned him out of the way of communion with all the Churches in the Countrey who for ought I know never heard of it unto this day Let him now say that mine owne confessions are sufficient Answers to my selfe as if I granted that in case the member had been knowne who so reproached Salem and the Church knowne whereof he was a member That then there were a lawfull separation from the Church that doth but tolerate her member in a causelesse reproach yea and from all other Churches too that hold Communion with that Church For he is not ignorant more goeth to a separation then so unlesse he hath forgotten the principles and rudiments of Church-Government He confesseth that to be true which I said That it is not Chirurgery but Butchery to heale every sore with no other medicine but with Abscission from the body But yet as if he could make mine own expressions confutations of my selfe he saith that I have confessed that which indeed is not my confession but my collection of his Argugument That Churches of godly persons must be separated from for inordinate worldlinesse If this be a Contradiction it is his and not mine as I shewed above neither doe I own any such confession as mine which he subjoyneth That Churches may be separated from when they tolerate their members in their causelesse reproaches It seemeth he thinketh I neither remember mine own words nor know any Church-Censure but Excommunication He proceedeth to tell us his judgement in so waighty a case as excommunication or separation is It is not saith he every sore of infirmitie or ignorance but an Vlcer or Gangreene of obstinacy for which I maintained that a person ought to be cut off or a Church separated from I know not how this judgement of his may satisfie his neighbours but a good Conscience willing to walke by rule would still inquire where it was meete First whether every obstinacy even before conviction and that in a sinne lesse hainous be such an ulcer or Gangrene for which either a person ought to be cut off or a Church separated from For there is an obstinacy against a good way as there is a scorning of a good way which is before conviction even of ignorance and to these Wisdome communicateth good Counsell Prov. 1.20.22 But there is a scorning and so an obstinacy after conviction and to such Wisdome refuseth to communicate any wholesome words Prov. 9.8 9. If he meane the former why did he refuse communion with us upon such an obstinacy of ignorance By what rule did he proceede If he meane the latter let him produce his cause and bring forth all his strong reasons whereby he did so much as offer to convince us of our obstinacy in any crime and we will acknowledge his separation to be just and our sinne to be great in not hearkening to him If he tell us againe as he doth in the next words as indeed the mouth is most full of the aboundance of the heart if he tell us againe of our guiltinesse of cruelty both against consciences and bodies in persecuting of them wee must needs tell him againe that neither himselfe nor any others that I can heare off did ever suffer any Censure which he calleth cruelty to consciences and bodies till after his separation from all the Churches in the Countrey And though he saith in the next words He separated Conscientiously and peaceably Yet did ever peaceable Conscience before him separate from Churches for an offence before it was committed If he tell us he separated for our communion with the Churches of England in hearing the word in the Parishes there let all that feare God whose
the Ordinances is an humane corruption and so if he will an humane invention yet I doe not hold nor ever did that their Parishes were onely an humane invention For I beleeve the Lord Jesus hath the truth of his Churches and Ministery and worship in them notwithstanding the inventions of men superadded to them Reply 2. Though I doe beleeve there is as true Communion in the ministration of the Word in a Church-estate to wit to such as are in Church-estate with the Minister of the Word as in the Seales Yet it is farre from me to hold and from any principle of mine to inferre that there is as true Communion in the ministration of the Word to every hearer as in the Seales for then we might as easily admit our Indians to the Seales as we doe admit them daily to the ministration of the Word Reply 3. It is a malignant and Satanicall misconstruction of the intentions of such godly persons who out of sincere affection to spirituall growth doe heare the Ministry of the Word from godly Preachers in England to accuse them before God and Angels and men that they doe it to avoyd the Crosse of Christ to wit persecution which may be avoyded in a great measure if persons come to Church It is well knowne that sundry of them are so sincere and constant in their profession that as they have suffered much for the cause of Christ against humane corruptions in Gods worship so they would be ready to suffer yet more for neglecting to come to Church if they suspected any humane corruption at all in it Againe It is well knowne that any stranger in London by removing now and then his lodging may escape not onely persecution but observation for a longer time then any of our hearers are ordinarily wont to sojourne there Besides in this time of universall freedome from all persecution during this long Parliament why doe not our members of these Churches forbeare to heare the Word in the Parishes now when there is no feare nor danger at all of persecution for not coming to Church His sixt and last particular consideration is That how ever Mr. Cotton saith He hath not found such presence of Christ and evidence of the Spirit in such separate Churches as in the Parishes What should be the reason of their great rejoycings and boastings of their own separations in New-England in so much that some of the most eminent amongst them have affirmed that even the Apostles Churches were not so pure Surely if the same new English Churches were in Old England they could not meete in Old England without persecution which therefore in Old England they avoyde by frequenting the way of Church-worship in the Parishes which in New-England they persecute Reply 1. The Examiner might easily have satisfied himselfe in this consideration if he had been willing to understand that which he knoweth to be our meaning He knoweth very well and hath often told us of it before that we our selves in our Churches doe practise some kinde of separation here to wit separation not from the Churches in Old England as no Churches but from some corruptions found in them In such Churches as so separate wee never speake of them that we had not found the presence of Christ or evidence of the Spirit in such Churches But I speake of such rigid Separatists Churches as renounce the Churches and Ministery and worship and Saints of England as if they were all false or none at all and therefore utterly doe refuse to heare the word in their Assemblies which is such a way of separation as I told him in my Letter the Lord Jesus never delivered nor any of his Apostles after him nor any of his Prophets before him Of which he taketh no notice nor giveth any ground either from Christ or his Apostles or Prophets for such practise but putteth us off that we practise separation our selves and rejoyce therein as if our separation and theirs were both of one nature and measure which indeed differ as much as I said before as Chirurgery and Butchery Reply 2. When he telleth us We boast of our separations in New-England yea so farre as that some of our most eminent have said that even the Apostles Churches were not so pure I must needs professe I never heard nor read of such a speech but onely in this Examiners Booke The speech it selfe savoureth I know not whether of more ignorance or arrogancy or blasphemy The broadest speech in this kinde that ever I heard to fall from the lips of any in this Countrey was that of Mr. Williams himselfe who whilest he lived at Salem as I am credibly informed would say That of all the Churches of Christ in the world the new English were the most pure and of all the new English the Church of Salem I am so well acquainted with the liberty and boldnesse of the Examiners tongue in calumniations that untill I know the name of that eminent person whom he reproacheth to have so spoken he must give me leave to feare either a mistake or that which is worse Reply 3. It is a double calumny but suitable to many other of the former that wee in New-England doe persecute the way of separation whether the one kinde of separation or the other It is true of neither for we practise the one and tolerate the other And againe that we frequent the Parish-Churches in Old England to avoyd persecution Unlesse mens tongues were their own I wonder how they can allow themselves to speake so excessively at random These his six Considerations having so little considerable truth or waight in them I justly said That he in withdrawing the people of God from hearing the voyce of Christ in so many Congregations both in New-England and in Old did not helpe Jehovah against the mighty but Satan against Jehovah and against the mighty Ordinances of his Word and Ministry But he answereth that he helpeth the zealous soules of the Separatiâ—n and he helpeth us to seeke the Lord Jesus without halting How he helpeth them I know not unlesse it be by depriving them of many precious meanes of grace which they might enjoy by hearing the Word in either England or unlesse by his own example he now helpe them Proficere in peius to separate further from all instituted worship of the Lord to cast off their own Churches Ministery Worship as they have cast off others before that so they might seeke for that which will never be found under the Sunne new Apostles to make all things new And as little doe I know how he helpeth us to seeke the Lord Jesus without halting unlesse it be to seeke him as he himselfe doth without Church-Ordinances For the Conclusion of his Booke he is willing to take up the conclusion of my Letter That whosoever will not kisse the Sonne that is will not heare and embrace the words of his mouth shall perish in their way Psal 2.12 This word is established in heaven and will take place in the earth throughout all generations But least this word might profit himselfe as selfe-love is apt to apply a word of threatening to any rather then to it selfe he applieth it to Mr. Cotton and to every soule to whom these lines of his may come seriously to consider in this Controversie if the Lord Jesus were himselfe in person in Old or New-England what Church what Ministery what Worship what Government he would set up and what persecution he would practise toward them that would not receive him For Answer let me say in a word this point hath been seriously considered already and let it be still considered and pondered in the Ballance of the Sanctuary and doubtlesse for the first of these points it will be found that if the Lord Jesus were here himselfe in person he would set up no other Church nor Ministery nor worship nor government then what himselfe hath appointed in his Word which though the Examiner and many others have sought and searched what enormities they might finde in it yet they have wearied themselves and found nothing So true is the faithfull promise of the Lord Jesus that he hath built his Church upon a Rock and the gates of Hell shall not prevaile against it nor against the Ordinances thereof And for the latter point What persecution the Lord Jesus if he were on earth would practise against those who would not receive him The Answer is neere at hand and is written for the warning of all gain-sayers Those mine enemies which would not that I should reigne over them bring them hither and slay them before my face Luk. 19.27 And yet I would not be so understood in alledging this Scripture as if Christ did allow his Vicegerents to practise all that himselfe would practise in his own person For not all the practises or acts of Christ as the Examiner seemeth to intimate but the Lawes of Christ are the Rules of mans Administrations But of that more distinctly in due time if the Lord shall give libertie to enquire further into the Examiners Bloudy Tenent To the Lord Jesus be the kingdome power and glory Amen FINIS
Court which was the act of the body of the Magistrates and of the Deputies it was neither done by my counsell nor consent For the body of them neither required my counsell nor received my consent What one of them did for I remember but one that consulted with me about it was not the act done by the Magistrates whereof I spake And let the occasion and scope and matter of that speech be remembred and it will be found to tend to that purpose and no other About a yeare before the Sentence in Court passed against Mr. Williams the Governour and other Magistrates having understood of the disturbances put upon the Civill State by Mr. Williams which have been declared above they sent for the Elders of the Churches in these parts to acquaint us therewith and to declare thereupon the just grounds which they had to proceed against him yet willing to conferre thereof with us because he was an Elder of a Church I doe not love to predicate mine own good offices to any but his importunitie forceth me to utter it when I heard the motion I presented with the consent of my fellow Elders and Brethren a serious Request to the Magistrates that they would be pleased to forbeare all civill prosecution against him till our selves with our Churches had dealt with him in a Church way to convince him of sinne alledging that my selfe and brethren hoped his violent course did rather spring from scruple of conscience though carried with an inordinate zeale then from a seditious Principle To which the Governour replyed That wee were deceived in him if we thought he would condescend to learne of any of us And what will you doe saith he when you have run your course and found all your labour lost I answered for the rest we hoped better things if it fell out contrary to our hopes we could not helpe it but must sit downe and quiet our conscience in the Lords acceptance of our will and endeavour for the deed This interceding of my selfe and other Elders in his behalfe gave me just occasion of that profession above-mentioned That I had sought to deliver him who without cause reproached mee The issue was when the Church of New-Towne with our owne and others had endeavoured to convince both Mr. Williams of these offences and the Church of Salem of their indulgent toleration of him therein it pleased the Lord to open the hearts of the Church to assist us in dealing with him but he in stead of hearkening either to them or us renounced us all as no Churches of Christ and therefore not at all to be hearkened unto Whereupon the Magistrates being to assemble to the next Generall Court at New-Towne intending as appeared by the event to proceed against him And one of the Magistrates of our Towne being to goe thither acquainted me that it was likely Mr. Williams his cause would then be issued and asked me what I thought of it Truely said I I pitie the man and have already interceded for him whilest there was any hope of doing good But now he having refused to heare both his own Church and us and having rejected us all as no Churches of Christ before any conviction we have now no more to say in his behalfe nor hope to prevaile for him Wee have told the Governour and Magistrates before that if our labour was in vaine wee could not helpe it but must fit downe And you know they are generally so much incensed against his course that it is not your voyce nor the voyces of two or three more that can suspend the Sentence Some further speech I had with him of mine own marvell at the weaknesse and slendernesse of the grounds of his opinions motions and courses and yet carried on with such vehemency and impetuousnesse and prefidence of Spirit To this purpose was my speech to him nor can I call to minde that I spake so much as this to any man else nor can I remember at all that further then so I gave him any grounds to prove the sentencing of him to Banishment to be just and warrantable to his Conscience Nor would it infringe the truth of my speech if I had so done seeing it is not one mans vote nor two if there had been two that denominateth the sentence of the Court or the act to be done by the Magistrates much lesse done by the Magistrates with my counsell and consent but though I looked at the Sentence of the Court as neither hastened nor done by my counsell and consent yet I did never intend to say that I did not consent to the justice of the Sentence when it was past Not that I withdrew my selfe out of the Court as he is pleased to construe it out of some reluctation or that I meant it I neither counselled nor consented in the very time of the sentence passing but that I did not before-hand either give counsell or consent to the body of the Magistrates or Deputies to passe that Sentence against him TO CHAP. V. I see I have been so large in answering the former foure Chapters of this Examination of my Letter that if I should proceed in the like sort in a particular search of the other twenty-foure Chapters which remaine I should take up more time then were meet about the personall concernments of him or my selfe Who are wee that we should publickly invite the servants of Christ who are employed in more weighty affaires of their Lord and ours to attend unto personall Transactions between him and me Where any thing shall occurre tending to more publick edification I shall insist with more attention thereupon and passe over other lighter Discourses with a lighter touch Yet who so can spare so much time and leisure as to compare each Chapter of his with each Chapter of this Discourse he shall finde if I be not mistaken no passage of weight passed over without returning due Answer to each particular That Text in Prov. 11.26 He that withholdeth the Corne which is the staffe of life from the people the multitude shall curse him I alledged to prove that the people had much more cause to separate such from amongst them whether by Civill or Church-Censure as doe withhold or separate them from the Ordinances or the Ordinances from them which are in Christ the bread of life Let not the Reader be so farre mis-led by the Examiner his mis-information as to thinke that this Scripture was produced against him to justifie either a false Ministery or an unfit people to choose and enjoy a true Ministery The Ministery and people are the Ministery and people of this Countrey of which the people he acknowledgeth to be Saints and the Ministers of the Churches chosen by them not to be destitute of such qualifications as Christ requireth save onely that we doe not forbid the people when they goe over into England to heare the word of God preached by godly Ministers in the Parish Churches Now