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A96888 A dialogue, arguing that arch-bishops, bishops, curates, neuters, are to be cut-off by the law of God; therefore all these, with their service, are to be castout by the law of the land. Notwithstanding, the world pleads for their own, why some bishops should be spared; the government maintained; the name had in honour still; but the word of God is cleare against all this, for the casting-of-all-forth. The great question is, which way of government now? For two wayes are contended for, The Presbyteriall and Independent: something is said to both these wayes: but we have a sure word for it, that these two wayes are but in shew two, and will assuredly meet in one. Neuters are shewen openly here, and the curse of God upon them. Presented to the Assembly of Divines. Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675. 1644 (1644) Wing W3486A; Thomason E34_10; ESTC R22862 54,646 56

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cannot answer that question for the Arch-bishops have not preached these I know not how many yeeres and the Bishope preach in the Lent-time onely and then there is such a throng to heare a Bishop preach that I cannot come within hearing Therefore I can give you no certaine report B. Though you heard not the Bishop yet you heard of his Sermon What heard you A. That the Bishop no sooner named his text but he ran away from it as from an adversary with which he could not agree Indeed the report of the Bishops Sermon is very various and monstrous so inconsistent it is with its selfe and with the text for though the sacred Scripture be constant to its selfe yet the Bishop and his Chaplin for he stood-up often in the Bishops place did mould frame and fashion his Text as you can doe Waxe to the fashion of the time or businesse in hand still turning head upon God and his Word and preaching not the preaching which God said unto him but what best agreed with the work in hand Jonah 3. 2. to make the King absolute and the Bishop an absolute Monarch also So they preached for just as the time served so the text should serve Now he preached-up the Kings Prerogative and preached downe the Subjects Priviledge set the Kings throne above GODS throne and his people below his foote This was the chiefe part of the Sermon as pertinent to the Designe in hand as it was crosse to the text Then Episcopacy must be Asserted by Divine Right The Government in the Church must be Monarchicall as in the Civill state it must be absolute And the better to bring about all this They preached-up Ceremonies Altars A brutish service wil render a people brutish and Organs and the lawfulnesse of the warre with Scotland the pursuing that brother with a sword Peace with Rome but no peace with Scotland What ever was the Text that was the Doctrine and subject matter a great while I pray you doe not aske mee any further account of the Bishops Sermon I can give no more account of it than the sick-man can of his dreames Surely It was so Heterogeneous incongruous Inconsistent with I say not baptized Reason but common reason and Baptizatam rationem sense that in very truth no good report can be made thereof B. I beleeve you and therefore I have done with your eare What reade you A. A very godly booke the Arch-bishops against the Jesuit Fisher wherein there is nothing sure to thrust away the people of GOD from the service of GOD but rather from the service of Rome I am confident of that B. Be not so confident of an Arch-bishops booke for as one said of his loving friend a blow from that hand would never hurt him So you may be confident That the Arch-bishop never intended by that booke to hurt the Pope or his Cause but to promote it heartily I doe assure you that the Arch-bishops intent was so honest so true so heartie towards Rome and so false toward the true Church that had he had as many necks as I reade one man had mouthes no fewer than fiftie they deserve every one to be tr●ssed up about with a rope and yet not a full recompence of reward for his ungodly labour in that booke B. Proceed What reade you A. A very pious booke which has thrust us quite off from Rome has caused a deadly fewd betwixt us and Rome it is called No peace with Rome B. There is such a book indeed but you do reade also that the same man has written That Rome is a true Church have you not read so A. Yes and truly me thought there was a great contrarietie in words such a difference as could never be reconciled No peace with Rome yet Rome a true Church it can never be reconciled thought I. B. Yes that it can though not well distinguish the times and persons and all is reconciled The same man writ both No peace with Rome before he was Bishop Rome a true Church after he was Bishop The one as a Minister of Christ the other as a Minister of Antichrist When he was a Bishop he must write as a Bishop that is the point And he could reconcile all very well he had been unbishopt else and so he put forth a book and called it a Reconciler which caused more than a suspition of the man that he was not a fearfull man onely but a right man a Proctor for Rome a subtill broker for Babylon GOD give him an heart to think of this for surely such a man as he should not have given so just a cause of suspition But proceed What reade you A. Pray you doe not trouble me with that question any more let it suffice to tell you what I know in two words the Bishops books and books licenced by their Chaplines if they may be called books are very many and stand as fully charged against their LORD and the Lords Anoynted as any books in Italy or in the Popes Library can doe B. I le aske you no more What you reade but what doe you see doe you see any thing from the Bishops tending to edification A. Yes if edification be a building and setting-up as I thinke the word doth import I see much tending that way I saw Bishop Wrens Library opened where I saw what doe you call them pretty knacks Images and Crucifixes c. All tending to edification of Romes Church and the Popes leige people B. Have you seene any Altars A. You might as well aske mee whether I have seene any Churches or Chappels or Cathedralls for in every of these places there is an Altar and most eminently seene there there is an ascent to it by degrees and steps as to Solomons Throne Indeed I may answer your question in the words of the LORD According to the number of Thy Cities Jer. 2. of thy Cathedralls thy Chancells thy Chappels are thy Altars thy gods O England B. You have bolted out a Truth here I thinke before you were aware I pray you let us understand our selves and examine whether you have spoke a Truth or no I asked you whether you have seene any Altars You answer mee Yes as many as there be Cathedralls and Chapp●lls and then you called them gods I pray you understand that it is not the Bishops calling wood or stone an Altar or the setting of it like a D●esser-board in your Kitchin Altarwise which makes it an Altar No They may for they are B●shops you may not take a stone a● a stock hew and polish the same then ●avish gold out of the bagg and so adorne it though all this cost and paines be bestowed upon it yet it is not an Altar nor a god yet no nor yet when they have set-it-up as was said Altar-wise like the D●●sser table in your Kitchin yet it is not an Altar nor a god yet But if the great man * Isa 2.
slave to his Masters lusts and his own The Priest hastened his Masters destruction for he did according 2 Kings 16. 16. to all that King A●az Commanded I have read the Records What is the result from thence You must tell us for from the premisses you have drawne the Conclu●ion I pray you what is it A. That I● it be now as in ancient dayes it has been then the Bishop is the Witch the Sorcerer he is the cun●ing Artist he turnes all up-side downe he has turned the King and people from the faith B. There is no new thing under the Sun What was now is like Priests like people Brutish Priests brutish people And now sith you have answered mee so clearely to this I le aske you no more questions I will not aske you whether the Bishops endeavoured onely To defile the house of GOD and the services there Not whether they set-up their Thresholds by Gods Thresholds * Ezech. 43. 8. Adhibendo traditiones suas ad praecepta mea Jun. Not whether they thrust GOD out of His House and His servants out of their houses and Gods House also Not whether they have thrust His servants into corners and out of the Land Not whether they have used Gods precious ones villanously All this is as cleare to all the Christian world as is the noone day And indeed you have yeelded to all this when you granted what you could not deny That the Bishops set-up Altars and made gods Will the GOD of gods endure this To be mated in His owne house with gods of mans owne making Surely surely This is enough to cause the LORD to measure us as He did Judah and Israel or to relate unto Times nearer hand to streteh over this Land also the line of Germany and the Plummet of the Palatinate-house To cause the Land to be wiped 2 King 21. 13. as a man wipeth a dish wiping it and turning it upside-downe Enough and enough so much as a man can doe and was in his power To make all the Inhabitants of the Land Papists and Atheists all Setting-up Altars and making of gods has don all this O wonderfull That all this has been don here before the face of His Holinesse and yet He has spared He has not meated out unto us as unto other Lands He has not wiped the Land yet as a maid wipeth a dish He has not made our Land Hormah * Numb 21. 3. utter Destruction or Anathema a curse Not yet Though these abominations are found here And yet behold ● greater Abomination than has been shewen hitherto which I shall not declare here A. I pray you let us heare all declare what you can declare shew me ●●d the world that other Abomination B. You must spare mee and your selfe that trouble Indeed I can say nothing touching the Bishops example that is the abomination my words cannot reach unto it how provoaking how defiling how corrupting how spreading No leprosie so infecting so destroying This how cannot be expressed A Bishops Example A Bishop and set-up Altars A Bishop and make gods Ah LORD how many thousand thousand soules has a Bishops example Destroyed He has by his abominable Doctrines as wee heard he has thrust away King and people from the worship of their GOD By his example he has commanded a Persuadet lingua jubet vita Athan. forced b Gal. 2. 14 Cogi eos dicit qui exemp●o Petri Judaizabant Jun. compelled King and people to serve other gods I can say nothing touching this Abomination I confesse it is hard to forbeare but I doe forbeare for your sake That you may now take the more scope and libertie to say what you have to say for Arch-bishops and Bishops Their government their office their Name Come gird up your loynes and speake like a man What say you A. Truly I have much to say yet nothing at all against that you have spoken from the word of God and Judgement from His mouth upon the Bishops I can yeeld unto your hearts desire That our two Arch-bishops ought to be thrust-out Nay more That those two I ever except a third The Primate of Ireland ought to be hanged-up by the necks for wee know what one has don and it is as legible what the other does he fights stoutly for the Pope his Lord I could yeeld you-up some of the Bishops too to the Justice of the Law to be hanged by the neck or rosted in the fire I could yeeld you up our Wren c. But to tell you what grieveth mee I cannot endure to heare all the Bishops jumbled together like Chest-men in a bagg honest men and together Two Metropolitan Bishops one Primate together Great men and mean men together vile men and precious men together you have made no distinction I professe unto you you have so confounded the persons that I cannot finde out the Primate of Ireland nor difference him from another Bishop now he is in Oxford where all the Bishops are or where all their hearts are You have made such a mingle-mangle one with another that I cannot single-out Bishop Wren that vile man from Bishop Hall that precious man You have as I said at first jumbled them together like Chest-men in a bagg You should have considered how soundly some of them have preached but some some not at all very few oftener than once a yeare and then not soundly neither what good bookes they have written And touching the Ceremonies how cleare they are for the innocency of the same All this you should have considered and not have jumbled them all together Indeed I am grieved that you cannot distinguish better B. Truly I would grieve no honest man and I hope to cleare my words so unto you That they shall be no griefe to your heart You say I have jumbled the Bishops all together like Chest-men in a bagge I le answer you to that first and grant so I have done and purposely I have done it for mightie reason for so they jumbled the dayes of the weeke the seventh Day with the six dayes they made no difference no distinction at all Destinction No They marred their Lords day more than any Day I grant you they have don some good workes So did Alexander the Great greater workes than they But Alexander killed his deare friend Calisthenes Him who dearly loved Alexander and the King both and ever after that when it was alledged for the honour of Alexander That he had don such and such great things It was checked with this He did so indeed but he killed his true and honest friend Calisthenes he killed him And that darkened all his glory to his dying day So when it is said The Bishops some few of them have written good bookes Yes but they have polluted the Lords Day which if there were no more is enough to stain their glory while the world stands But there is more Have they the best of them