que ie suis d'auis que mes seruiteurs tiennent pour tirer fruict de ce saincte oeuure Bon soir mon amy Sachant le plaisir que vous en aurez Vous estes seul a qui l'on le mande Le 5. de May. 1600. Henry Au dessus de la lettre A mon Cousin le Duc d' Espernon THE COPIE OF THE K. OF FRANCE HIS FORMER LETTER TO the Duke of Espernon concerninge the late triall had betwene the B. of Eureux and the Lord Plessis translated into English CHAP. VI. MY Friend The Diocesse of Eureux hath ouercome the Diocesse of Saumur and the sweet manner of proceedinge that hath byn vsed hath taken away all occasion to any Hugenot whatsoeuer he be to say that any force hath byn vsed beside the only force of truth The bearer heerof was present at the combatt who will informe yow what maruayles I haue done therin Certanily it is one of the greatest blowes that hath byn giuen for the Church of God this long while for the manifestation of this error By this meanes we shall reduce more in one yeare of them that are separated from the Church then by any other way in 50. yeares There were a large discourse to be made of each of their actioÌ„s but the same were to long to wryte The bearer shall tell you the manner which I would haue all my seruants to obserue for reapinge fruite of this holy worke Good night my friend And for that I know what pleasure yow will take heerof yow are the only man to whome I haue wrytten yt This 5. of May. 1600. Henry The superscription To my Cosyn the Duke of Espernon EXTRICT DV POSTSCRIPTVM DE LA LETTRE DE CELVY QVI enuoy a ceste Coppie dela lettre du Roy a Rome CHAP. VII Monsieur Iâ— vous enuoyé la coppie de la lettre du Roy qu'il a enuoyé a Monsieur d'Espernon sur la dispute de l'Euesque d'Eureux contre du Plessi-Mornay pour verifier son liure qui s'est de tout trouué faulx s'en est allé cacher comme vn regnard Dieu conduise tout a bonne fin a sa gloire salut des ames An extract of the Postscript of the letter of him that sent this coppy of the forsaid K. letter to the French Embassadour in Rome My Lord. I do send yow heere the coppy of the Kings letter wrytten to the Duke of Espernon about the disputation of the B. of Eureux against Plessis Mornay for iustifyinge of his booke found altogeather false and he is gone to hide him selfe like a Fox God conduct all to a good end for his glory and saluation of mens soules Thus much do wryte the King and his secretary the one to the Duke of Espernon the other to Monsieur Sylary Embassador in Rome both of them present at the conference The Kings letter as yow see is very substantiall yt seemeth his Maiestie was greatly moued himselfe by the seeing and hearing of this combatt For so much as he affirmeth so resolutely that yt was one of the greatest blowes that had byn geuen for the Church of God a long while for discouering the erroneous proceedings of Protestants The secretary also auoucheth as yow see the falshood found in Mornayes booke and that for shame therof he was gone to hide himselfe like a Fox Now shall yow heare three other letters relating more particularly the circumstances of this conference with the Acts successe therof though all very breifely in respect of the Acts themselues THE COPIE OF THE LETTER OF MONSIEVR PERON B. OF EVREVX to the L. Silary Embassadour for the K. of France in Rome the 10. of May 1600. CHAP. VIII My Lord. AT length the victory of the combat betwixt the L. Plessis and me remayneth to the Catholike Church and after many tergiuersations which he vsed for the space of 5. or 6. dayes at Fontayne-bleau I sent him on wednesday the third of May threescore falsifications taken out of his booke to begin the play withall for him to prepare himselfe to answere the next day Of them he chose out 19. the which he went told the King the next day that he had chosen forth examined and found true and that he would loose his life yf any one of them were proued to be falsely cited After dynner the same day in the same place he came forth in the presence of his Maiestie and of 7. or 8. Princes and of the L. Chancelour of France and other officers of the crowne and Counsellors of State Where first his Maiestie declared both by himselfe and by the L. Chancelour that he would not in any wise that in this confereÌ„ce should be handled any point of Catholike Religion wherof he doubted nothinge and knew also that the iudgment therof pertained vnto the Sea Apostolike but only of the particular busynes of the L. of Plessis whether he had falsified the texts of the Fathers or no I added that when Hunnericus K. of the Vandalâ—s would haue had the Catholiks dispute with the Arrians Eugenius Archbishopp of Carthage as Victor of Vtica rehearseth answered that he could not do yt without the consentment of other Bishopps chiefly of the Church of Rome which is head of all others that this my entring into the present conference was not for that I bare lesse respect vnto the Seat Apostolike then that holy Bishop did But because there was no questions of Religion heere to be discussed but only to shew the falsifications of the L. Plessis about the which I was well content to haue the iudgment of the assistants for as much as appertained to the knowledg of Grammer to witt whether the L. Plessis had corrupted the words of the authors or no but not as touching points of diuinity the which the K. Maiestie had already very wisely forbidden vs to treat for that he will not heerin follow the example of K. of Iuda which vsurped the incensour and the function of priesthood but rather of Constantyne Theodose and other religious Emperors in remittinge the decision of Ecclesiasticall matters vnto the Church This done we began to dispute I began to obiect vnto him those places which himselfe had chosen out amongst threescore sent to him by me the day before following therin the same order that he had taken in choosing them out the which all were conuinced of falshood in order as they were proposed sentence was pronounced against him vpon euery place by the heretiks themselues which assisted him there and all with one voyce condemned him The King in this conference hath shewed himselfe so wise so intelligent so affectionate so zealous taking vp the argument against him at euery occasion and pressing him by disputation and so conuincing him of diuers falshoods as he hath shewed manifestly his witt and affection towards the Catholike Religion admirable
about the premisses I haue not thought amisse to resent in part by this postscript what occurreth vnto me in this behalfe And first of all is the wonderfull prouidence of almighty God in conseruation and continuation of the ould ancient Catholike Apostolike vniuersall faith left at the assension of our Sauiour vnto his followers and visible Church that then was and spread by them miraculously in very short space ouer all the world and continued euer since by tradition and succession of one age to another vntill our tyme vnder the protection and mighty powerable defence of the same Lord and Sauiour and vnder the gouernement of his only espouse the said Catholike Church Against which Church discent of faith therin though many new fantasyes and deuises of particular men which holy scriptures call heresies haue spronge vp in euery age with fresh and glisteringe titles of pure ghospell of new reueyled truth of godly reformation and other like pretenses and that God for more triall and exercise of his said Church for the speedier redresse perhaps of some abuses and corrupt manners crept into some part therof hath permitted the said new inuentions to preuayle grow and ruffle for a tyme as by experiēce of all ages we haue seene yet euer in the end he bringeth the same to confusion and shame accordinge to those words of the Psalme Percussit inimicos suos in posteriora opprobrium sempiternum dedit eis He striketh his enemyes in the hinder parts that is towards the end of their ruffle and confoundeth them with euerlasting shame Which prophesy of the Psalmist is principally to be vnderstood of hereticall enemyes as Tertullian Epiphanius other anciēt Fathers wryting against them do interprete and the experience of like end in all heresies past doth make yt playne And this shame and confusion of heresies heretiks which Gods prouidence doth heere fortell and in tyme also bringeth to passe so manifestly as the whole world may be wittnesse therof consisteth principally in foure points as holy Fathers do note First that euery new sect diuideth it selfe quickly into many others sects and heresies which S. Augustine sheweth largely of the Arrians and Donatists and Staphilus Lyndanus and other wryters of our time do shew the same of Luthers sect diuided into so many sects branches in so few yeares as all the world seeth And Stanislaus Rescius a learned man of Polonia◠in his late booke of the Atheisine of haeretiks sheweth out of the wrytings of protestants themselues that in the yeare 1596. when he wrote his booke which was but 4. yeares past that there were now extant in the world 270. different sects all risen out of Luthers from the yeare 1517. wherin Luther began All which he declareth at length the reason of this so great multiplication is giuen by Tertullian in his booke Of prescription against heretikes aboue 1400. yeares past sayinge That for so much as euery scholler of a sectary knoweth that his maister inuented his opinions of his owne head he will inuent also somethinge himselfe therby to shew that his witt is not inferiour to that of his Maisters And heerby they come to such confusion in the end that one destroyeth the other Wherof Luther himselfe is a good witnesse when he wryteth these words Truly God doth not fight by any other meanes with heretiks then by permittinge among them a certayne seditious spiritt of dissention by which their ouerthrow also and perdition doeth ensue So he who is a wittnesse in this cause without exception as yow know The second reproach followinge sectaryes is Contradiction to themselues in their owne wrytings and sayings and shamfull inconstancy in their doctrine The reason wherof is for that the said doctrine consystinge only in the inuention iudgment and memorye of the sectarye himselfe that inuented yt or chose to follow yt though inuented by another for whatsoeuer they alleage of scripture or other antiquity must depend of their owne new inuented interpretation of necessity it must follow that as their talents and witts discourse or memory do alter change or faile in tyme so must the doctrine also therof dependinge be altered And so eyther forgetting what they said in one time or place or matter or hauing altered their iudgment or opiniō vpon some further reason which then they saw not they must needs come to say cōtrary to that they did before In which kind of contradiction some thousands haue byn noted by learned men in Luther himselfe no maruayle seeing he was the first of that sect that inuented new opinion◠dayly And the same is obserued in Caluyns wrytings by VVestphalus Hesshusius and other Lutheran Protestants that wrote against him The third confusion that followeth commonly vpon heresie is coldnes doubtfulnesse in Religion and at length also plaine atheisme and contempt and thervpon dissolution of life neglect of conscience and other sutable effects which therfore among heretiks principally do ensue For that heresie callinge into question and shaking the very pillars and strongest meanes wherby men remayned assured before of their faith to witt the number quality and right vnderstandinge of holy scriptures tradition of the Church from whome we receaued them the verity of Ecclesiasticall storyes Christian miracles authority of generall Councells creditt of ancient Fathers and the like and breakinge downe besides the hedges and walles that were wont to be bulwarks to good life as Confession Restitution Satisfaction fastinge vowinge and other helpes of that quality this I say being once done which is the proper worke of heresy a man runneth naturally into doubt contempt of all and consequently leesing by little and little both feare and shame geueth himselfe ouer easily to all licentious liberty and sensuality of life which the Apostle calleth Desperation And thus much of the cause of this third reproach For as for the effect yt selfe to witt that these fruits haue followed in the world since heresies came in much more then euer before I could alleage both Luther himselfe and Erasmus Roterodauius and other authors of most creditt with Protestants testifyinge of their dayes and as for England yt selfe the present knowledge experience of thousands will beare me witnesse Wherfore I meane to prosecute no further these first 3. reproaches followinge heresies and heretiks to witt◠diuision among themselues contradiction to themselues and dissolution of life or propension to Atheisme though for the Readers fuller instruction therin yf he vnderstand the Latin tongue I must needs giue him notice of two famous bookes wrytten of late of that argument by two excellent learned men of our tyme taken out of the works themselues of all the Sectaryes of this age The one is of our contreyman Maister VVilliam Reynolds once fellow of new-colledg in Oxford a Protestant Preacher intituled Caluino◠turcismus that is of
be answered albeit yf he do but sett downe the whole places themselues as they ly in the Fathers books whence they are cut they will need no answere but will answere themselues and confute the alleager and shew the shamlesse dealinge eyther of Peter martyr or Iohn Fox or of both in cytinge them The like deceytfull dealinge was vsed by Nicolas Ridley B. then of Rochester and after of London the next moneth following in the Cambridge disputation about the same controuersy of the reall presence wherof he being president Martyn Bucer refusinge vtterly to deale in that controuersie he affirmed to the whole vniuersity that he had fiue sure grounds for the opinion of Zuinglius wherof the first was to vse his words the authority Maiestie and verity of holy scriptures the second the most certayne testimonyes of the ancient Catholike Fathers c. Wheras the truth is that both these foundations are most euidently against him as much the one as the other which Bucer well kâ—ew therfore would not take part with him in that matter though soone after to remedy this breach he putt vp three other impertineÌ„t questions to be disputed against Catholiks but in this other article he know that Ridley lyed shamfully against his owne conscience for that all Farthers are against him most euidently so do the Magdeburgians their cheefe Protestant Chroniclers shew declare in euery age or century of their Ecclesiasticall history And yt shal be sufficient for the reader to cast his eye ouer the 4. Chapters only of euery century intituled of doctrine And thus much for K. Edwards dayes when Zuinglian Religion first peeped vp in our countrey After this man stepped to Paules Crosse in the beginninge of this Queenes dayes about the yeare 1559. and 1560. Maister Iohn Iewell otherwise called B. of Salisbury and he proceeded yet further in this bragg or fiction For he protested there euen with feigned teares that yf any one authority place sentence or asseueration of any one Father Doctor Councell or authenticall history within the first 600. yeares after Christ could be brought forth by any man liuinge for any one of those points of Catholike Religion which he there recyted to be in controuersie that then plainely and sincerely he vvould subscribe Against which vayne and shamlesse bragg when Doctor Harding and diuers other learned men of our side began to wryte from Louayne and to bring forth authorityes of all Fathers Doctors Councells and historyes in great aboundance the first effect of this chalenge that appeared to the world was a seuere proclamation that no such bookes wrytten in English by the Catholike party should be receaued or read in England vnder great punishments by which prouision Maister Iewell thinking himselfe meetly well deâ—enced he plyed the pulpitt often and renewed his chalenges many tymes and perceauing notwithstaÌ„ding that Doctor Hardings confutation was come into England he answered the same with a longe volume of Rhetoricall words stuffed the margents therof with the shew of infinite authors as though the whole world had byn for him and none for the other side and with this he deceaued the people then and doth to this day such I meane as haue not commodity or learninge or other meanes to examine those places and to find out the manifold lyes and falsifications therin conteyned And this was the gaine by all likely hood that Maister Iewell preteÌ„ded to his cause by that worke knowing full well that this sort of men is farre the greater which would be gayned and setled in his doctrine before the learneder sort who are but few in comparison of the other could haue tyme books and commodity to discouer refute him when they should do yt they should hardly be beleeued And in this conceate he was not deceaued yf we respect that present tyme and many yeares after as also yt is probable the L. Plessis Mornay had the like designment in stuffing vp his bookes with the like authorityes of Fathers but yf we consider the continuance of tyme wherof truth is said to be the daughter yt hath succeeded vnto him as yow haue heard and will do more and more dayly as to such shifts is wont to happen that is to say accordinge to Kinge Dauids sayinge before recorded â—pprâ—brium sempiternum dedit eis God layeth euerlastinge shame vpon them For how many learned men lightly of our nation haue taken vpon seriously to go ouer that booke of Maister Iewells to examine yt by the authors themselues with any indifferency of mynd haue for the most part byn therby conuerted to Catholike Religion though neuer so great Protestants before of which sort I haue heard relation of many but of some I can testify my selfe for that I haue heard it from their owne mouthes who of earnest Protestants were made most zealous Catholikes by that meanes principally of which number I thinke yt not inconuenient to name hâ—â—re some 2. or 3. omittinge others which for iust respects may not to be named The first of them is Syr Thomas Copley made Lord afterward in his banishment by the K. of France who often tymes hath related vnto me with much comfort of his soule how that being a zealous Protestant and very familiar to the late Earle of Licester in the beginninge of this Q. dayes when Maister Iewells booke was newly come forth he being also learned himselfe in the Latyn tongue tooke paines to examine certayne leaues therof and findinge many falshoods therin which were in excusable as they seemed to him he conferred the same with the said Earle who willed him that the next tyme Maister Iewell dyned at his table he should take occasion after dynner to propose the same which he did soone after and receauing certaine triflinge answers from Maister Iewell he waxed more hoate and vrged the matter more earnestly which Iewell perceauinge told him in effect That Papists were Papists and so they were to be dealt withall and other answere he could not gett which thinge made the good Gentleman to make a new resolution with himselfe and to take that happy course which he did to leaue his countrey and many great commodityes which he enioyed therin to enioy the liberty of conscieÌ„ce for saluation of his soule and so he both liued and died in voluntary banishment for confession of that truth which his Sauiour by occasion of Maister Iewells falshood had reueyled vnto him The second example which I remember of my owne knowledge is Maister Doctor Steuens a learned man yet aliue who being Secretary or Chaplyn to Maister Iewell for I remember not well whether and a forward man in Protestant Religion at that tyme espied certayne false allegations in his Maisters booke whilst yt was yet vnder the print in London wherof aduertisinge him by letters for that he supposed yt might be by ouersight the other commaunded notwithstandinge the print to goe forward and passed it ouer
Cyrill were not found in him leauing yt easy to the hearers saith he to inferre that the sense notwithstandinge was to be found in him Which is a great vntruth for that the sentence registred by all 4. secretaryes comprehendeth the whole passage in these words The passage cyted by Monsieur Plessis out of Cyrill is not found in Cyrill which sentence conteyneth as yow see both sense and words And it is a poore shift of Plessis to go about to help himselfe by so childish an inference as for that they gaue sentence that the words alleaged by him were not in Cyrill yt might be inferred that the sense was After this the Bishopp sheweth diuers other grosse vntruthes in this kind as namely that in reportinge the sentence of the Chancelour and deputyes vpon the last place examined out of Theodorete about Idolls he falsely peruerteth the same leauing out the principall important words of the said sentence to witt adored by Paynims and adored for Gods contrary to the faith of the records themselues vniformally taken by all 4. secretaryes then againe to excuse himselfe from a foule disgrace happened in the examination of the first place about the reall presence out of Scotus whose text Plessis could not read he telleth in his discourse this notable lye that the B. of Eureux had vsed a certayne fraudulent sleight to disgrace him which was to bring two editions of Scotus the one fayre to be read which he sent him ouernight with the 60. places to prepare himselfe the other he retayned with him of an euill print which he obtruded to him in the conference But this shamelesse fiction the Bishop refuteth first by the testimony of them that brought backe againe the bookes from Plessis house to the conference and then by the wittnesse of 4. seuerall Frenche gentlemen to witt Monsieur du Bertant du Beaulien du Berulle and du Salettes that came with him from Paris knew that he brought but one only edition of Scotus with him which was in folio of the print of Badius Ascensius in the yeare 1519. and lent vnto him by the college of Sorbone in Paris for this conference which booke being giuen to Plessis to verifie his place alleaged out of him he could not so much as read nor turne the booke for that there were some abreuiations therin after the manner of schoole-doctors and therby all the lookers on and hearers well perceaued that he was vtterly ignorāt in reading schoole-doctors though euery where for ostentation of learning he was accostomed to cyte them in his bookes And this shame Plessis had no other way to couer at that present before all the auditors but to say that he was not practised but in his owne bookes only though afterward vpon more deliberation he thought good to deuise this other shift of changinge the booke by the Bishopp which yet being so malitiously cōuinced of calumniation by the wittnesses before mentioned did exceedingly tend to Plessis discredit And this shall suffice for the first point of Plessis reply wherin yow see that for defence of his 9. places before conuicted of falsification he vttereth 9. other great vntruthes for doublinge the number As for the other two points of new shifts and recrimination I will remitt the Reader to the Bishop his owne refutation for them that vnderstand the french tongue and for the rest yt will not be hard to ghesse by example of this which we haue alleaged what manner of stuffe yt is which Plessis could alleage for his further defence in so manifest conuinced falsifications and yow shall heare presently what O. E. in England can say for him And yf yow find him by this little a man with out faith or spiritt of truth in his assertions then shall yt be wisdome to beware not only of this his booke against the Masse wherout so many falsifications haue byn gathered but of others also wrytten in the same spiritt and namely of one that for many yeares hath gone in English intituled of the Church which being smothely wrytten and stuffed out with great shew and ostentation of Scriptures Fathers Historyes and other such furniture hath dazeled the eyes of many as did also this other against the Masse vntill yt was sifted and examined by learned men But for the other in English I can assure the Reader that yt is a most deceytfull booke and may be well brother to this against the Masse And yt is now very neere twenty yeares gone that the late Earle of Lecester gaue one of them to a kinsman of his named Guilford to read for his satisfactiō in Religion who conferring the same with another learned gentleman a frend of mine desired that yt might be examined which my said frend began to do with such comodity of bookes as he could procure at that tyme and found so full stuffed with all kind of deceatfull impostures and falsifications as he remayned astonished therat and conferred the same with a learned Baron of the Realme now dead and he with another yet liuinge and neere to his Maiesties person who did all wonder at so notorious treachery though th'examē passed not through the greater part of the booke for that it was interrupted by some trouble fallinge to the examiner but he hath affirmed many times since and doth at this day that yt is incredible to beleeue what corrupt dealinge there is therin and exhorteth all those that haue meanes to try the truth of this his assertion which I cannot do at this present for that I haue not the booke by me yet I thought it conuenient to giue a note therof for stayinge of them that haue or may be deceaued therby and for styrringe vp of others to make this examen And so for this tyme we leaue Plessis to himselfe and to his shifts in France and shall passe ouer to consider what O. E. his aduocate can say for him in England WHAT O. E. OTHERWISE MATHEVV SVTCLIFFE HATH wrytten for defence of Plessis Mornay concerning the 9. places handled in the former Conference and how he committeth farre greater faultes then Plessis himselfe CHAP. V. HAVING pervsed what Monsieur Plessis hath byn able to say for himselfe both in the conference and after vpon better deliberation we must now examine briefly what our ould frend O. E. for vnder that vizard he masketh hitherto hath diuised for his defence For that my forsaid breife relation fallinge into his hands he thought yt to appertayne to his manhood as a martiall minister to proclayme himselfe champion in Plessis quarrell therby to fullfill the prouerbe that none so bold as blynd bayard and though he be not able to defend his owne head as after yow shall see from the same or like blowes which Plessis hath receaued yet will he needs be doing intrude himselfe for a shylde to the other and this with such violence or rather virrulency of speche raginge and rauinge at all those
the whole lent followinge were occupyed for the most part in refutinge and shewinge the falshood of this booke duringe which tyme many Protestants of accounte were either conuerted or greately moued heer with and amonge other one Monsieur Sainct-Mary du Monte a principal noble man o◠Normandy who frequenting the preaching of one F. Angelus a Capuchin friar borne a great noble man and named before his entrance into Religion Monsieur du Bouchage brother to the late Duke of Ioyeus whose state he had of late inherited his said brother being dead but left the same for that other vocation of a poore and humble seruant of God And albeit afterward vpon necessity of the said temporal state which he had left he was forced for some yeares to take a secular life vpon him againe and to mennage armes as he did by licence of the Supreme Pastor of Gods Church yet after publike affayres once accommodated he retired himselfe backe to his Religious habitt habitation againe where he liueth now a most vertuous life preacheth with great zeale singular edification of all sorts of men well sheweth that his mind is superior to all wordly welth promotion And these are examples that are not found lightly among Protestants but are reserued as peculiar to Christs Catholike Church where the dew of heauenly grace continually falling worketh often such extraordinary effects And thus much of him By this godly mans sermons then was Monsieur Sainct-Mary at length conuerted the experience of this triall not a little helping thervnto as after shall appeare and made a good Catholike with no small edification of all men in respect of the great humility and zeale he vsed in his returne to Gods Church and with much comfort of the K. himselfe to whome first before all other he vttered his resolutiō And heervpon as well his Maiestie as also the noble men that were Protestants and namely the Duke of Bouillon Monsieur Rosny Monsieur Digiers and other began to call vpon this triall of Monsieur Plessis his booke for that it seemed to touch all their honours and of their Religion especially when the B. of Eureux had protested vpon his honour in the pulpit that he could shew more then 500. falsifications in the same booke for his part Vpon which offers made as well by him as others there ensued the chalengs heerafter following The issue wherof was this that when vpon the 4. of May the K. being at his palace of Fountayne-bleau had commaunded both partyes aforesaid to be present and their bookes to be brought with them for this triall to be made in his owne presence Monsieur Plessis seemed to shrinke and to seeke all delayes possible eyther to auoyde the same or to bring it to some longer examination by going ouer all his bookes and works leafe by leafe lyne by lyne as you shall heare him demaund presently but this being denyed by the B. cut of by the K. expresse cōmandement he appeared at last vpon the day aforsaid with some 4. or 5. Ministers on his side But the day precedent before this the B. to deale more plainly and shew frendshipp sent vnto him threescore places taken out of his booke vpon which he meāt to presse him and as his words are to begin the play wishinge him to come well prouided in the same Of which threescore Monsieur Plessis chose out nynteene that seemed to him most defensible and vpon which he said he would ioyne the combat adding moreouer that he would leese his life yf he were conuinced therin But the next day the triall being begon vpon the first place and that found false he would haue passed to the second but the B. refused so to do except the deputyes and iudges there present would first subscribe and testifie that this first place was falsified which at length they did as well in this as in the rest there examined and Monsieur Plessis remayned in that pittifull plight which afterward yow shall heare by the B. and other mens letters vnto which I remitt yow beseechinge almighty Cod that this so notorious an accident may worke that consideration with yow as the moment importāce of the marter requireth And so to his holy prouidēce I commit yow from Rome the 10. of Iune 1600. THE CHALENGE OR PROVOCATION MADE BY THE L. Plessis Mornay vnto the L. Peron Bishopp of Eureux the 20. of March 1600. CHAP. II. THE L. of Plessis doth demaund and require that my L. Bishop of Eureux and all other that blame or accuse him to haue vsed in his bookes sett forth any false citations will vouchsafe to ioyne with him for subscribinge and presenting a most humble request vnto the K. Maiestie to intreate him most humbly to ordaine and name such and so many as shall please his Maiestie being men of sufficient learning vertue before whome the said L Plessis may verifie from leafe to leafe from lyne to lyne all authorityes which he hath cited in his said books And that this triall be made by such copyes and bookes as haue byn printed in those places and in those vniuersityes which they of the Roman Church hould not for suspected In wittnesse wherof I the aforesaid Plessis Mornay haue heere put to my hand seale At Paris the 20. of March in the yeare one thousand six hundred THE ANSWERE OF THE B. OF EVREVX to the former Chalenge the 25. of March 1600. CHAP. III. HAVING receaued good Reader this Chalenge wherof not only the report and brute but the copyes also themselues and already spread abroad wrytten and subscribed by the L. of Plessis and consideringe that this is not a chalenge of one priuate man to another but rather of one party or side against the other it seemed that the interest of the commō cause of Gods Church did not permitt eyther to lett it passe without answere or to answere it secretly For as the end of this his offer is in case it be refused by such refusall and sylence of Catholiks to gaine a publike iustification of his books and wrytinges so ys it conuenient that may answere to the same be also publike that the enemyes of Gods Church do not gett that aduantage as to publish one thing conceale the other And therfore to the end that both heauen and earth may see and behould how I do proceed in this matter I make yt knowne by this my hand wryting both to him and to all other that shall read the same that I do accept of his offer and chalenge and do require of him againe to cause the same to be put in execution and not to end only in words And for my part that all hinderance therof may be remoued I protest that I am presently ready and do desire out of hand to come to the very point of shewinge the falshoodes without byndinge my selfe to that large wearisome methood of examining his late
as it was which this man seeing that had a conscience and sought the truth indeed resolued to take another way of findinge yt out and hauinge found yt in the Catholike Church where only it was to be found he resolued also to follow yt and so he did and went voluntarily into banishment for the same where yet he liueth vnto this day in France with good reputation both of learninge and godlynes The third example that I call to mynd is the worthy man before named Maister VVilliam Reynolds who being first an earnest professor and Preacher of Protestant Religion in England and much engaged amonge the Puritans in Northampton-shire as he was wont to tell he fell in the end to read ouer Maisters Iewells booke and did translate some part thereof into Latyn but before he had passed halfe ouer he found such stuffe as made him greatly mislike of the whole Religion and so he leauing his hopes commodityes in England went ouer the sea into these parts and the last yeare of Iubiley to witt 1575. he came to Rome and brought that booke with him and presented both himselfe and yt to the Tribunall of Inquisition of his owne free motion and accord where I ghesse the booke remayneth still yf yt be not burned and himselfe after absolution receaued from his former errors which he with great humility and zeale required my selfe also at that tyme spake with him in that place he returned into France and Flanders and there liued many yeares with singular edification for his rare vertue learninge and how hartily indeed he was conuerted may well appeare by his zealous wrytinge both in Latyn English in defence of Catholike Religion in confutation of Protestant errors which himselfe before had held for verityes And thus much of the falshood of Maister Iewells wrytyngs wherof he that will see more lett him read Maister Hardings returne of vntruthes but especially yt would import him that hath learninge leasure and commodity to examine the quotations themselues by a good library but in this kind of false dealinge I can giue Maister Iewell a compagnion as good as himselfe yf not exceedinge him which is Iohn Fox who aboue all that euer wrote perhaps may be recorded for notorious in this behalfe I haue had occasion these monethes past to peruse a great part of his last edition of Acts and Monuments printed the fifth tyme in the yeare 1596. and do find it so stuffed with all kind of falshood and deceytfull manner of telling tales as I could neuer truly haue beleeued yt yf I had not found yt by my owne experience And I do persuade my selfe fully notwithstandinge all his hypocriticall words and protestations which are more and oftener repeated by him then in all the wryters togeather that I haue read in my life that there is scarse one whole story in that huge volume told by himselfe except when he relateth other mens words out of records and therby is bound to the formality therof but that it is falsified and peruerted one way or other eyther in the beginning middle or end by adding cutting of concealing false translating wrong cyting or cunning iugling and falsification which I do not speake for any tooth against the man that is dead and whome I neuer knew but in respect of truth only and of so many deceaued soules as are in danger to perish by his deludinge them Nor when I speake of Maister Fox his falshoods do I make accompt of any errors or ouersights though neuer so grosse that are found in him as to reckon some for Martyrs that were aliue at the making of his booke for this he excuseth in his later edition in that he was deceaued by false informations nor do I vrge that others are made Calendar-martyrs by him whome he cannot gainsay but that they were malefactors and some of them eyther madde or denyed Christ himselfe and yet placeth he them in his Calendar for Saints These escaped I say are not heere to be vrged by me now but rather in another place The points that I for the present accuse him of are willfull corruptions and falsifications that cannot be excused as among other things and for examples sake when he recyteth any point in controuersie of the Catholiks doctrine he putteth yt downe commonly in plaine coÌ„trary words sense to that which he must needs know that they holde and teach for so much as their publike books are extant in euery mans hands to testifie the same Of this kind a certaine learned student of diuinity brought to me of late 30. places taken out of two only leaues of Fox his booke to witt from the 12. to the 14. which I looking vpon found them all most euident by conference of the Catholike authors alleaged by the said student and moreouer besides these thirty I did discouer so many other plaine falshoods and manifest willfull lyes in those only two leaues as might well double the former number and I do offer to proue them one by one yf any frend of Iohn Fox will ioyne issue with me vpon this point And then yf by Arithmetique a man will multiply these lyes falsifications of two leaues only with a thousand and more which Fox hath in this last volume and will adde afterward to euery two leaues so many falshoods the number will rise to so huge an accoumpt as were a shame to sett downe and would much surpasse Iohn Sleyâ—ans Story in this kind though he be the Protestants Protochronicler out of which an eleuen thousand lyes were only gathered by the Catholike wryters of Germany And this is so much as for the present seemeth needfull to be said about this matter The end of the relation there followeth the defence A DEFENCE OF THE PRECEDENT RELATION against the shiftes calumniations and tergiuersations as well of the L. Plessis himselfe and some of his Hugonotes in France as of their Proctor O. E. in England The Preface concerninge the authority of the Actes sett forth in France THE former relation being sett downe wholy and entirely as yt was printed in the yeare 1600. though somwhere more explaned and towards the end made sâ—orter I am first to yeld a reason in this place why the passages or points accused of falshood that vvere handled in the conference ensue not heere as they did in the former edition wherof the cause is for that those passages indeed were neuer seene or viewed by the relator himselfe but added only by a frend as in the preface therof is signified according to his wrytten copy receaued from Paris which copy though it agree in truth and substance with the publike Acts themselues of that confereÌ„ce which afterward haue byn authentically 〈◊〉 sorth yet for that the points are not so cleerly laid open as some men perhaps would require I haue thought good to relate the same againe in this my defence out of the said Acts
PRINT ABOVT THE fact it selfe of the Conference had at Fountayne-bleau then is comprehended in my former Relation CHAP. I. FOR that my briefe narration before recited was founded only vpon certayne letters sent from Paris to Rome presently after the conference had as by pervsing therof yow haue seene and my purpose also was to be very briefe I could not sett downe so many particularityes as these acts do now represent yet do I find that whatsoeuer I related before is now confirmed againe by these acts and diuers things added wherof some principall I shall heere touch in few words cytinge the leafe of the said Acts wherin they may be read more largely The title of the said Acts is this Actes de la conference tenue c. Acts of the conference held betweene the L. Bishop of Eureux and the L. Plessis in presence of the King at Fountayne-bleau the fourth of May 1600. published by the permission and authority of his Maiestie c. the same yeare 1600. And thus much of the title now to the contents The first occasion of this combatt sett downe in these Acts is that vpon the 20. day of March anno 1600. a great noble man of Normandy named Lord Sainct-Mary du Mont a Protestant at that tyme but soone after conuerted meetinge with Monsiear Plessis at the lodginge of the Lady Princesse of Orange in Paris told him how he was cryed out of euery where about the falsifications found in his booke lately printed against the Masse that himselfe had seene some shewed vnto him by the B. of Eureux which he could not solue Heervpon Monsieur Plessis thinkinge himselfe touched greatly in honour did iudge yt the best way to make a publike Chalenge to the said B. of Eureux which he wrote and gaue abroad the very same day and the L. Sainct-Mary sent one of them presently to the B. wherevnto he made answere acceptinge of his Chalenge vpon the 25. of March which letters before I haue alleaged and soone after the said Bishopp thinking yt conuenient to print and publish the same did so and sent a copy therof to the King togeather with a letter of his owne hand of the 28. of March wherin amongst other words he saith thus I do send vnto your Maiestie a Chalenge of Monsieur Plessis made about the examen of his allegations in his booke against the Masse togeather with my answere to the same I should be vnworthy to serue so great and noble a King and of so high courage at your Maiestie is yf I should refuse such a Chalenge especially in a quarrell that may be ended without bloud and tend much to the glory of almighty God and to the saluation os him that shal be ouercome and therfore I do most humbly beseech your Maiestie to permitt this triall c. Heervpon Monsieur Plessis vnderstandinge that the B. had wrytten to the King he wrote also another to his Maiestie to the same effect returned likewayes an answere to the Bishop shewinge himselfe willinge to goe forward in the said triall but with diuers exceptions and diuersions as in the said letter appeareth which we haue related before The King hauinge receaued these letters from both partyes and conferred the same with his Counsell resolued to permitt the triall demaunded as also to be present theratt himselfe and so gaue order to the L. Chancelour of France vpon the second of Aprill to warne the partyes to prepare themselues and to be ready for the beginninge of the next moneth with all prouision necessary for that Triall In the meane space the Popes Nuntius that lay in Paris hearinge of an appointment for triall of matters in Religion began to make some difficulty to permitt any such publike act appertayning to the vniuersall cause of Christendome without licence and approbation of the Sea Apostolike and proofe of the persons that must dispute alleaginge that it was a thinge inconuenient to lay the creditt of so great and generall a cause of Religion vpon the learning of any particular man whatsoeuer without necessity But when he was answered by the B. and after by the K. himselfe and others that their meaninge was not to dispute of controuersies but only to examine places cited by Monsieur Plessis whether they were truly and faithfully calleaged or no and that this should be sett downe and obserued as the first law of this conference the Nuntius was satisfied and so the day was appointed his Maiestie commandinge expressely that the conference should be made with all sweetnesse and courtesie c. So in the meane space diuers things were set in order necessary for that conference as namely for choosinge the iudges on both sides and principall assistance without all partiality to witt learned wise and graue men to the end that all might passe with indifferency loue and charity as much as might bee namely for the Catholiks was chosen the president of Tou a great learned man vpright constant and a neere kinsman and frend to Monsieur Plessis The second was Monsieur Pitheu aduocate in the Court of Parlament of Paris a man both graue and generally well learned and a â—amiliar frend also to Monsieur Plessis The third was Monsieur le Feure Maister of the Prince of Condie And on the other side were named the President Calignon Chauncelour of Nauarre and the Lord de Fresne Canaye president of the Chamber of Parlament appointed for them of the new Religion in Languidoc and Monsieur Cazaubon Reader of his Maiestie in Paris all earnest learned and iuditious Protestants The K. departed from Paris the 21. of Aprill to Fountayne bleau to hold there the confereÌ„nce leauing order with the L. Chancelour that the next weeke followinge he with the rest of the iudges and deputyes should follow and bringe the B. of Eureux with them so they did arriuing at Fountayne-bleau the 27. of Aprill and the next day arriued also Monsieur Plessis but brought no books with him sayinge that he had not byn warned to do so and so the next day after that againe he presented a new petition to the Kinge in wrytinge by the Chancelour askinge 4. thinges which his Maiestie caused presently to be conferred with the B. to take his answere thervnto The first was that wheras the B. had giuen outâ— that he had obserued aboue 4000. falsifications in his booke Against the Masse and therby infamed the same that yt might be examined page by page and leafe by leafe as before he had demaunded but the B. refused this for the same reasons which he had alleaged before in his letter to Monsieur Plessis principally for that yt was but a refuge to draw out tyme he well knowinge that yt would neuer be ended The second demaund was that all such places of his booke as the B. did not accuse of falsity might be esteemed as allowed and approued after this conference But
contentment to Plessis and those of his party wherein it might be for which cause he said further as before that he desired this conference might passe with all quietnesse possible and that the Bishop should abstayne as much as he could from vsing the word false or falsification and other such like as might be offensiue for that his intent was to pacifie and gaine men by this triall and not to exasperate And the same he said also vnto the Lords deputyes there present requiring them that yf they should see any man wax into bitternesse choler they should restraine him seeke to end all with good words and substantiall matter After dynner about one of the clocke the said conference was begone in presence of his Maiestie and of a great number of the cheefe nobles of France which were long to name for before the K. satte the L. Chancelour and the deputyes of both partyes before named and at his right hand satt the Archbishopp of Lyons and sundry other Bishopps and on his left hand the 4. secretaryes of State behind the King sate the Princes namely the Dukes of Vaudemont Nemeurs Mercury Dumayne Niuers Elbeuse Aignilon Ianuile and others and after them againe the officers of the crowne Counselors of State and others of the nobility and about 200. other hearers within the chamber aboue 500. in a gallery and garden without expecting the resolutiō from passage to passage wherof there were many Protestants and diuers Ministers of the new Keligion All being sett the L. Chancelour made first a briefe speech confirmed afterward by the King himselfe that the meaning of this meeting was to try out the truth of certaine allegations that were called in controuersy in the L. Plessis booke and not to dispute of any article of Religion at all to which effect also the Bishop had a breefe speech alleaging the example of Eugenius Archbishop of Carthage who being required by Hunnericus King of the Vandalls in Africa to dispute with the Arrians he refused the same without consent of other Bishopps and especially of the B. of Rome as head of all Monsieur Plessis also made a very short preface saying that as he had wrytten his books with intent to do God seruice for the reformation of his Church and would thinke himselfe happy yf he could help any thing therin so was he so farre of from all intention of willfull falsifyinge that yf he knew his right hand to haue done yt he should be the first to burne the same He made mention againe and shewed greefe that 4. thousand places should be noted as falsified by him in his booke and finally protested that howsoeuer it succeded with him his cause was particular and touched not the reformed Churches in France which were before him and would be after him c. The B. repeated againe the matter of 4000. places corrupted and offered to stand vnto yt and to verifie them as well as those 500. new agreed vpon and repeated againe breifely the whole story of this action and how guilfully Plessis had proceeded in cullinge out 19. places only of 60. offered him and of these had put in the first ranke Scotus and Durand two schoolemen about the controuersie of the Sacrament leauing out other places of S. Cyprian S. Cyrill S. Chrisostome other ancient Fathers obiected to haue bin corrupted by him in the very same controuersie of the reall presence amongst the number of these three score which fraud to the end the iudges and deputyes might see and behould he laid downe vpon the table that stood before them the whole Catalogue of the said 60. places sent the day before to Plessis which being done the King comaunded the foure secretaryes of the crowne to wryte only the conclusions and iudgments that should be giuen and not the whole speaches for yt would be ouerlonge and so the conference began the B. sayinge at the opening of the first booke Domine labi◠mea aperies os meum annunciabit laudem tuam Monsieur Plessis also prayed briefly with his hatt before his face c. OF NINE PLACES EXAMINED IN THIS FIRST DAYES conference and how they were all iudged by sentence of the deputyes to haue byn corrupted by Monsieur Plessis CHAP. II. IN this first dayes conference which endured 6. houres there could be examined only 9. places of the 19. which Plessis had chosen to defend of which nine also the first two by his art and fraude as in the former Chapter hath byn seene were of 2. schoolemen or scholasticall wryters Scotus and Durandus which being only named for exāple sake by the B. of Eureux in his catalogue of 60. places but yet after many more important then they of the anciēt Fathers which Plessis thought good to thrust backe all the said ancient Fathers and namely S. Cyprian S. Cyrill of Ierusalem S. Iohn Christostome and others cited in the same controuersie and many more in other questions to aduāce forward to the first second places of triall the said Scotus and Durandus thinking therby partly to weary his Maiesty the audience and to make the conference lothsome and contemptible by so base a beginning partly also presuming that he might more easily trifle out the tyme in wranglinge about these as he did a whole houre about the first place only of Scotus and would haue done the whole day yf he might haue byn permitted but the Bishop discouering this fraud vnto the auditorye shewed withall that his deceyt and false dealing was all one in corrupting meane authors as the best and greatest therfore that it was not so much to be cōsidered by the iudges what the wryter was that was falsified but how much with how great fraud he is falsifyed And with this they passed to the particulars The first place examined out of Scotus about the reall presence This preamble being made the B. began to read out of Plessis booke pag. 869. accordinge to his forsaid edition in 4. printed at Rochell by Hierome Hautin these words out of Scotus about the Sacrament of the Altar Iohn Duns saith he called Scot almost 100. yeares after the Councell of Lateran was not afraid to call in question if the body of Christ be really conteyned vnder the species or accidents of bread and he disputeth that it is not and his arguments are for that the quantity doth not permitt yt nor yet the locality and circumscription annexed to the nature of a true body such a one as Christ had c. Thus he And then for proofe he quoteth in the margent Scotus vpon the 4. booke of Sentences dist 10. quaest 1. Out of which place the B. did inferre two willfull and malitious deceyts of Plessis the first that he would make his Reader beleeue that Scotus the rest of the Schoolemen when they propose any matter to be disputed to and fro do doubt of the truth therof
side began as hath byn said to enter into another cogitation to thinke whether yt were not best by this occasion to seeke out the truth of matters indeed and that without pertinacity or passion for so much as yt was a matter concerninge the eternall saluation or damnation of their soules And this happy course amonge others tooke as in part before yow haue vnderstood the aforsaid noble man of Normandy Monsieur Sainct-Mary du Mont who being a great Protestant before was first moued towards Catholike Religion partly by the Sermons of Monsieur Buchage brother to Duke Ioyeus made afterward a Capuchin friar as hath byn declared which Sermons were principally against the falsifications of Plessis in his booke against the Masse partly also by the sight of some of the said falsifications themselues shewed vnto him in priuate by the said B. of Eureux before the conference but he was fully conuerted by the trialll it selfe and became afterward a zealous Catholike But more notorious and admirable was the conuersion of the L. Fresnes Canay cheife president for the Protestant party in the parlament Chamber called Demy party in Languedocke chosen by Monsieur Plessis himselfe for chiefe deputy on his party for this conferēce who taking the same course in enforminge himselfe found matters so euident as he became a Catholike vpon the sight of this triall and that with such feruour as he would not be absolued secretly of his heresie before held as for respect vnto his dignity and place was offered but would needs abiure publikely in the hands of the B. of Paris and so he did being a very learned man in his profession at this day is Embassadour for his Christian Maiestie with the State of Venice where his wife in like manner the last yeare by his owne especiall meanes she being a Lady of much nobility was conuerted also both of them remayned most zealous Catholiks Which two examples of Monsieur Sainct-Mary and Mousieur President Fresnes both of them being learned and earnest Protestants all their life before did greatly mooue the King himselfe for his comfort and confirmation in Catholike Religion but no one thing so much as his being present at the forsaid Conference and so he is said to haue often confessed afterward for that he saw there that which he could neuer haue imagined to witt that men of learning iudgment would willfully for maintayninge of faction wryte and publish that which they must needs know in their consciences to be false He cōsidered that these 9. places there examined were picked out by Plessis himselfe of 60. sent him by the Bishop and that these 60. were but a parcell of 500. which the said B. had bound himselfe to exhibite in 10. dayes to be discussed and that by all probability the forsaid 9. were of the least falsified and easiest to be defended of all the rest at least wise of the first 60. for that otherwise Monsieur Plessis would not haue chosen them Wherfore hauinge seene by experience that no one of those 9. was able to be defended from plaine and willfull falshood he imagined what would fall out in the rest if the conference had gone forward and if all should passe as in these 9. throughout the 500. there ready to be exhibited yea in 3500. more which the Bishop said he had gathered out and offered to bynd himselfe to conuince them of no lesse falsity and imposture then those nyne and all this out of one boooke These things I say laid togeather his Maiestie had good cause to thinke what may be thought of that mans conscience that wryteth and printeth such a booke in matters of Religion Moreouer his Maiestie could not but remember what tales the said Plessis and other such fellowes had told him against Catholiks Catholike Religion for many yeares whilst he was yet a Protestant to witt that they had no truth on their side no antiquity noe true ancient authority but all was for them and their new pretended Religio◠He could not forgett also what sollemne protestations they were accustomed to make of their owne sincerity both in wrytinge and preachinge and especially Plessis in this last contētion about his booke before yt came to the tryall offering to leese his life and honour yea to burne his owne hand yf any one place were proued to be wittingly corrupted or falsified which yet was so euidently conuinced by the triall not in one only but in euery one of the nine places as no man of reason could deny yt and the deputyes of his owne party gaue sentence against him Wherfore this hauing so fallen out and the Bishop of Eureux protestinge of his side that the places of greatest corruption remayned yet behind aboue twenty fold more in number then those that had byn examined seing also the shamfull flight of Monsieur Plessis from the continuation of the combatt and the shamelesse discourse cast abroad by him without a name wherin many matters of fact well knowne to his Maiesty were denied affirmed or disguised according to passion most contrary to the knowne reall truth therof All these considerations I say many other concurring togeather and representing themselues to his Maiesties wisdome made him to feele infinite comfort in the happy resolution he had taken of being a Catholike and to contemne from that day forward all contentious wrytings of factious sectaryes that care not what they say or wryte so they may therby hould vp their sect and faction Neyther did this euent of Plessy Mornayes conferēce worke those effects only for the openinge his Maiesties eyes and vnderstanding in Religion but of many more besides throughout France wherof though I be not so particularly informed as many others bee yet diuers persons of marke could I name besides the former two that receaued like light grace from almighty God by the same meanes and of great Hugonots became good Catholiks as the L. Baron Saligniac Liefetennant for the K. of the countrey of Lymoge togeather with his wife daughter of the Chauncelour intituled Del Hospital and sister to the Archbishopp of Ais. The L. Baron du Bonneuald a great noble man in Lymosin togeather with another Baron of Gascoigne whose name occurreth not at this present though I haue seene the narration of his conuersion wrytten out of France Monsieur du Sansay Entendent ouer the Kings Finances in France Diuers cheefe learned men also and among them some Ministers as namely Monsieur Caiette late Minister and Preacher to the Kings sister marryed to the Prince of Loraine togeather with diuers of her cheefe officers amongst which was Monsieur du lac de Barn Monsieur Rebeul Monsieur Sponde th' elder two great learned men and another Sponde brother to the former no lesse learned who at this day hath the care of the Popes library in Rome togeather with a nephew of Iohn Caluyn conuerted entertayned like wise by his
for other c. but yf the Apostles and Martyrs being vpon earth in flesh could pray and be heard for others when they had need yet to pray also for themselues how much more now after their victoryes crownes and triumphes c. S. Paul saith of himselfe that 276. soules were geuen him at his prayers in the shipp vvhen he vvas aliue and dost thou think◠he vvill be mute now after he is gone to Christ and vvill not dare to open his mouth for them that haue beleeued his ghospell throughout the vvorld and shall Vigilantius a liue dogge be better then Paul a dead Lyon So S. Hierome meaning that Vigilantius presumed that himselfe being a liue Saint could be heard for others but S. Paul being a dead Saint could not and O. E. presuminge the same also of himselfe as yow may well imagine that he doth may in like manner apply the same aunswere of S. Hierome to himselfe being in this point no lesse a barkinge dogge against prayer to Saints then was Vigilantius And so much of this place The sixt Place out of S. Cyrill The falshood obiected to Plessis vpon this place was that wheras he had alleaged the authority of S. Cyrill against worshippinge the Crosse sayinge S. Cyrill answered the Emperour Iulian vvho reproached the honour done to the Crosse by Christians that Christians did not geue adoration nor reuerence to the signe of the Crosse c. It was obiected I say that the last words of this sentence which are of most moment to witt that Christians did not giue adoration or Reuerence to the signe of the Crosse are not in S. Cyrill albeit Plessis vsinge often to repeate those words as the words of S. Cyrill had putt them downe also in one place in a different letter which charge Plessis being not able to auoyde after diuers shifts turnings and wyndings was condemned as before yow haue seene neyther was he able to reply any thing of moment afterward in his discourse from Saumur as appeareth by the Bishops refutatiō all which O. E. hauing perused and thought well vpon lett vs see what he bringeth for releefe of his clyent and I shall sett downe all his words togeather as they ly in his answere for that they conteyne not many lynes he knowinge not well which way to turne himselfe but yet must needs say somewhat for that he could not well hold his peace The sixth place saith he vvhich the L. of Plessis was charged to haue corrupted was drawne out of Cyril contra Iulian 1. 6. why was he charged thinke you forsooth by cause he alleaged him to proue that adoratiō was not to be yealded to the signe of the Crosse but heerin there could not be any falsification vsed and that first for that he did not alleage the authors words and secondly for that he doth well conclude according to Cyrills meaning for where Iulian obiected to Christians that they worshipped the crosse Cyril answereth that these words proceeded of badd thoughts extreeme ignorāce so likewise saith Minutius Foelix in his Apologie Cruces nec adoramus nec optamus that is we neyther worshipp nor desire Crosses This is his whole discourse full wise and learned as yow see which the poore man hauinge seene refuted particularly in the Acts themselues of the conference and after more largely in the refutation of Plessis michinge discourse without a name he bringeth it in heere againe as though it had neuer byn heard of or refuted before without adding one word of help or new supply for poore Plessis but only some new vntrew lyes of his owne as his fashion is as first of all where he saith that forsooth Plessis vvas charged with falsification because he alleaged Cyrill to proue that adoration vvas not to be yelded to the signe of the Crosse. I say forsooth yt is an euident vntruth for he was so charged for that he alleaged that out of S. Cyrill which was not in Cyrill And againe it is another vntruth to affirme that Cyrill obiected extreeme ignorance to Iulian for that he reproached Christians for honouring the Crosse. Seing it was for another distinct cause as before hath byn shewed to wit for a false inference or collection made therof And it is a third vntruth that Minutius Foelix did say in our sense vve neyther vvorshipp nor desire Crosses that is to say as they signify the Crosse of Christ not gibbets as his pagan aduersary obiected vnto him O. E. deserueth some such Crosse for impugninge the other of Christ and for deluding his Reader in this place with so grosse an equiuocation yf his other Acts and Gests by sea and land do not meritt also the same And I do call these later two proper vntruthes of O. E. though they were obiected before by Plessis in the Conference for that he hauinge seene them euidently answered refuted before bringeth them in againe and dissembleth the refutation as yow haue seene in the second Chapter of this defence where all these nine places are examined particularly as they were handled in the conference it selfe The seauenth Place out of the law of the Emperours Theodosius and Valens The legerdemayne obiected vnto Plessis vpon this place was as before yow haue seene that pretending to alleage a certayne law or imperiall institution against paintinge and caruinge of imoges he left out the words humi in solo that is to say vpon the ground which did make or marre all the markett For that the Emperors for reuerence of images forbiddinge them to be painted vnder mens feete Plessis alleaged them against images absolutely and not being able to defend this falsification but by layinge the fault vpon one Petrus Crinitus a new author of our tymes whome he had quoted in the margent but not named in the text he was cōdemned at length of this forgery Lett vs see how his aduocate will defend him I shall sett downe his whole defence togeather as in the former place The seauenth place saith he vvas out of Petrus Crinitus where the Lord of Plessis is charged to leaue out the word humi alleaginge the lawe of Theodosius and Valens against the making of the signe of the Crosse but his accuser should haue remembred that he did alleage not the words as now they are found in bookes falsifyed by Idolaters and Crosse worshippers but out of Petrus Crinitus which cyteth the law out of authenticall records Our wise relator heere to make the matter seeme more heynous saith he falsifyeth the law of Theosius Valens and Iustinian as if they had byn ioint authors of that law when as Iustinian was not yet in the world when that law was made Neyther is it much materiall if Tribonian in the Emperours name had putt in the word humi for wee are rather to rely vpon the Originals then vpon Tribonians honesty that put words in out and altered lawes at pleasure