This is An ANSWER TO John Wiggans BOOK Spread up and down in Lancashire Cheshire and Wales who is a Baptist a Monarchy-man Wherein may be seen how he exalts Himself against Christ the Light that doth enlighten every Man And also some of his and his Peoples erronious Principles and assertions which he and his People held in a Dispute with some of the Quakers And also an Answer to his Queries in his Book And also some Queries which was propounded to him which he would never Answer to this day and also some of his assertious which he could never make good and likewise an Answer to a second Challenge which Book we would have all in patience and meekness read over with a single eye wherein you may see the wicked according to Scripture is grown worse and worse who with fair words and fained speeches deceives the hearts of the simple who are wise discernes these things From the Prisoners at Lancaster whom he then opposed being then a Prisoner Thomas Curwen William Houlden Henery Wood William VVilson Also here is an Answer to his Appendix annexed to the Book by Margaret Fell. LONDON Printed in the Year 1665. To the Reader READER HEre is something in Answer to John Wiggan's assertions and also to his Book which thou art desired patiently to read over and to read the Scriptures which we have quoted and also his and also his words and our Answers for simple peoples sakes was it answered that they might be no longer deceived for we were all satisfied before with Christ who is the light of the World the way the truth the life and he is our satisfaction Never-the-less John Wiggan hath taken some of our papers and private letters writ to him but left out the occasion wherefore they were written and so in this he hath not done honestly neither as he would have been done by and as for all his bad letters he hath writ to us we shall not set them down all nor part for some of them are out of the bounds of Christianity Our Book is somewhat large the most of the heads and strength of his Book being spoken too particularly but take it throughout and I believe thou will find such a pack of confusion as thou hast not heard and malicious spitefull words against God and Christ the light which may be found in his Book we have not wronged it but he hath not paged his Book therefore we could not quote it here And these things which he hath asserted and laid down he is to make good by Scripture without ading or diminishing for we will have plain Scripture also an Answer to his Challenge for him to make good all his assertions by Scripture without ading to it and also some Queries here is for him to Answer and to clear himself if that he can by Scripture which we believe it will not clear him and so farewell From them that loves truth and peace to all Mankind For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour who will that all Men should be saved and come to the knowlege of the truth 1 Tim. 2. 34. and this is contrary to John Wiggan who saith God denies faith to some Men. You might have had an Answer sooner but it was long before we had his Book and when we had it was fain to take it in pieces and many perticuler Persons were concerned in it who some of them lives 60. miles one from another and the Book being called for so hastily again he boasted that we could not Answer it but that was but little to us for it was truth that we mind The 2d of the 5th Month 1664. This is An ANSWER To JOHN VVIGGANS Book c. WEE hearing of a Book that John VViggan had given forth against us in which are many lies and scandals and he the said John Wiggan directing one of them to Randal Hunter and Thomas Hardy Deputy-Goalers as he calls them but he might have said to the Head-Keeper and Under-Keeper And also this Book being disperced abroad in the Country through him it was hard for us to get a sight of it but at last it was given to us by the Under-Keeper and after a while fetched it away it concerns many Friends some that are 60. miles of and some above 20. yet this John VViggan nor none of his Company who sayes he give it forth to convince us of some of our errors and also a Challenge in it were not so civil as to give us ever a Copy of it or the thing it self and when that friends asked him for the Book he replyed if we would pay for writeing it over we might have a Copy of it who hath not forgot his old Priest tricks to make people to pay him for his lies and by this all sober people whose minds stands without partiality may judge of this Mans works who pretended to convince us of our errors as he sayes and gives forth a Challenge and publisheth part of a private letter and what he pleaseth and never directs it nor his Book to the Authors and whom it doth concern And now whether or no this man hath not lost the very common civility and understanding that is amongst Men and boasts of his works which he kept hid from us though through great difficulty we have gotten a Copy for a little time wherein all Men may judge by this carriage and practice of his in boasting of his works abroad and keeping them from them they do concern they may see it is the work of darkness and of error and one that is afraid of the light and a great part of his Book as the Reader may read and see is against the common salvation to all Men contrary to Jude and to be one that denyes the Lord that bought them as in Peter and all his force and strength is to the denying of John's Doctrine and Testimony and that which he came to be a witness of the true light which enlighteneth every Man that cometh into the World John the first And also the force of his matter is to throw away the prophecy of the Prophets concerning Christ the salvation to the ends of the Earth to Mankind to poor lost Man and also to deny the promise of God to poor Creatures which saith God will give him for a Covenant of light to the Gentiles speaking of Christ who shall be his salvation to the ends of the Earth and a New-Covenant to the House of Israel and the House of Judah and this was to all people both Jewes and Gentiles and this light and Covenant is by him denyed but to some as he sayes and so he is one that makes Sects amongst the Creatures of God and divides being in the errour and darkness himself being void of the mind of God his Prophets and Apostles and also denying the love of God to the World who so loved the World mark take notice poor people that God gave
day by the Scriptures of Truth but manifested thy self further in error and as for detecting our persons and carriages thou canst not but thy own carriage is detected and so thou maist take shame that pleads against Truth but God will honour his Truth and them that stands for it and happy would it be for thee if a place of repentance were found for thee though thou maist have had many Esaus Tears proceeded from thee through thy Agonies And the unsavory fruits thou speaks of is thy own by which thou deceives the Ignorant and the least that is simple in the truth discernes thee thy spirit and principle and are reclaimed from the error of thy way and that makes thee so rage against them And as for thy additional accompt thou hast given forth by discourse concerning the Light in every man and thy interpreting the Scriptures which indeed is perverting the Scriptures by thy addition as will be further manifested and proved And as for thy saying if any of them shall yet persist to maintain their error here you will find an offer further to debate the difference betwixt us before any person in Authority Answ It 's Truth we maintain against thy errors as we have done to all thy Brethren before thee till this day who are all come to nought who have made such havock upon us and our Goods we have maintained it and shall maintain it with our Lives to Death against thy errors before what Magestrate thou wilt as after will be manifest or when thou wilt or where thou wilt for its truth we stand for and suffer for And as for the perticulars that thou wilt suffer for as well as we and art not in the same Principle Bower and spirit as the Saints be in in that thou suffers but as an evil doer And whereas thou talkest of a measure of the Spirit of God given unto thee this is but to cover thy lies and errors and to deceive withal for if thou wert in the measure of the Spirit of God thy self thou wouldst not deny it in others and so in this thou art an enemy in thy Spirit to every thing that we stand for because thou art not in the Spirit And whereas thou sayest This is a relation of the occasion manner of a debate had in the Castle at Lancaster the 17. day of the 1. Moneth â—â—â—monly called March 1664. between me John Wiggan and George Fox John Stubbs and many other of the people called Quakers about the Light within Answ The dispute was not George Foxes nor John Stubbs but Thomas Curwens and William Wilsons but George Fox and John Stubbs liberty being granted George Fox hearing such gross errors laid down by John Wiggan he spake something to contradict them by Scriptures they being so gross and manifest and so this Book of Wiggans is not only a relation of that but of many other things of his own addition and private things sent-abroad by him and the truth of it all may be seen in the following answer And what I Tho. Curwen said to thee as thou passed through the great Hall thou being a deceiver of the people I bid thee leave of thy deceiving as yet thou couldest never clear thy self of being a deceiver nor hast not done in thy Book And whereas thou sayest thy answer was mild to this purpose said thou so Consider well what thou hast said and whether thou canst make good thy words and tell me as I come back whom I have deceived and wherewith I have deceived any or how thou canst prove me a deceiver Answ Here thou praises thy self of thy mildness if another had done it it had been better for thee what was thy mildness to me in thy Chamber when I came to discourse with thee of the things of God thou laid violent hands upon me and like to have torn my Coat off my back to haile me out of thy Chamber and this was not Christian like and whereas thou lyer bid me tell thee as thou came back that is a lye and thy voice I knew to be the voice of a stranger and now thou hast made it manifest who denies Christ the Light to be saving and whereas thou wouldest know whom thou hast deceived there came a Woman from London to thee to declare against thee whom thou hast long deceived And there came a Man from Stopphed whom thou had deceived to cry against thee and there came James Parke to cry against thee and to discourse with thee of thy deceivableness who saw thy deceit and turned away from thee when they came to the light of Christ Jesus which manifested thee and saw thee to be a Preacher against Christ the light and all may see herein what is the end of thy Preaching when thy work is to bring people from the Heavenly light of Christ Jesus within them and lead them into imaginations and whimsies and fancies of thy own brain and many others about Manchester which might be instanced which some of them hath been with thee here which thou long kept from the light of Christ Jesus within them who now praise the Lord that they are come from under the bondage and have found Christ their Saviour and Leader and Light which thou denyest And whereas thou sayest that I was rash my censures groundless in saying thou taught the way and know it not thy self Answ Thou hast manifested thou dost not know the way for there is but one way to God who is Christ the Light that doth enlighten everyman who doth enlighten the Gentiles is the glory of Israel and the Salvation to the ends of the Earth and Christ saith I am the Light and I am the way to the Father and no man comes to the Father but by me And this Light in every man thou denies to be saving which we say it is saving or condemning to them that love it it 's saving and to them that hate it it 's condemning and so it 's manifest that thou art a confesser of him and a teacher of him in words as other Sects are and the Devil could preach Christ in words without him and said thou art the Son of God as thou dost who denies him to be a Light in all men savingly and so doth all the Sects in Christendom that preaches Christ in words for an end and their gain as thou did at Manchester at thy Chapels and preached up thy Independant way and thou left the people in delusion didst thou know Christ then though thou preacht him in words and so doth all these before mentioned know Christ the way and such as held forth the Doctrine of Devils Commanding to abstain from Meats and forbiding to Marry who went about to deceive the Christians and people of Christ the way in words for some end but not in truth and Antichrists are not they such as pretend to preach Christ in words and yet knows him not who is a mystery Answer me plainly didst
false Prophets steps 2 Tim. 3. Tit. 1. 10. 2 Pet. 2. Art thou not here in these steps Evil beasts slow bellies c. all that read the Scriptures may see thee And whereas thou saist Thou hast had Converse with several Christians in several Nations this thirty years Answ This thou may speak to thy shame who knows no more of God and Christ then now to call him an Idol and where did any of all these Christians teach thee that Christ was an Idol I do not believe that any sect in all Christendome would say so but thy self no not the Papists whom thou likens us to and saith we are as bad and so thou art like unto them in the Revelations Who blasphemeth God and his Tabernacle and them that dwell in Heaven And that which thou did affirm in thy assertion was contrary to God Christ Scripture and Truth and all people might see them if there were no answer to them if they could but read Scriptures And whereas thou saist It behoved some of them at least G. F. who was called as Margaret Fell affirmeth c. Answ Margaret Fell said G. F. was called from his lawful Calling as thou reports thou thy self didst report it That was the occasion of her words which if it was so if his Calling had been meaner it was better then Butchering people as thou hast done with the sword any of these trades had been better then thine for thou hast been both a Priest and a Butchering Major so thou might have two Trades and has lost them both which makes thee â—ail so Alss for answering thy book it did not so much concern G. F. but many particulars which were some of them 60 miles one off another and thy book which we had with much adoe from you which ye were afraid should have come to the light it was such a work of darknesse and it was but a few dayes time in our hands which they were not likely to answer it in so short a time besides called on often to be taken from us it was an uncertain thing for us to come to answer it or go about that work but at last we were fain to take it in pieces and get it Copyed over in pieces there was such haste with you and this shews you were afraid to have it answered whereof John Wigans Wife and some of his mis-led people made a boast as though we could not answer it before we could have it which he hath small reason for as they that reads it in mecknesse sees his folly 2 Tim. 2. And that which we writ was true to thy condition thou hast proved it And whereas thou art grieved because the Goalers and Prisoners should see thy fruits laid open because we sent Letters to them to give unto thee when thou thy self would not take them of us and we did not send for our Letters again as thou didst thy Book or some through thy means not being afraid who see them or read them And herein thou condemns thy self for thou directed thy book to the Goaler and sent it into the Towne before it came to us so in this thou hast judged thy self for thou didst not so much as direct that a Copy of it should be given to us and so thou renders thy self both obnoxious and odious in thy Book and practice And what thou hast been is known and there is things yet to be manifest which is a shame to mention and so thou hast thy self begotten in many men a true opinion that thou art a hainous offender in speaking such words and writing such things against Christ the Light And we know none that hath sent thee any Letters sealed but there hath been a name subscribed to them And as for scorning jearing and frothy expressions that 's thy own condition John and not ours and why didst thou not put those letters sent without names into thy book that the wise Reader might have seen them if there were such and have judged of them And as for me Thomas Curwen who sent several papers to thee being burthened with thy wickednesse who had published thy lies abroad in the Name of the Lord and wast ashamed and afraid that we should have them though thou promised often we should have them in words and now that we have it it must but be a fortnight being a short time for them who are above 60. miles from one another and thou hast done unjustly in that thou hast not put down my whole letters and the occasion of them for there is no wise man will judge but that there was some reason why I should send such words to thee And did not froth and rage and fury appear in thee when thou laid violent hands on me and pull'd my coat like to tare it off my back and canst thou lift such unholy hands and fists of wickednesse unto the Lord in prayer and will God accept thy sacrifice which is like Cains And when I did peruse thy book I found it did not prove thy assertion viz. That Christ the light is not saving It therefore is but as Chaff and dirt and thou perverts and wrests adds to many Scriptures seemingly to prove thy assertion good which thou couldst not for which I say the plagues of God shall be added unto thee according to the Scriptures Rev. 22. To which John Wigan in his wonted fury and rage said The plagues of God was upon me and we all spake from the spirit of the Devil yet this man before his companions would seem to be humble and a meek man through his feigned words would seem to Justifie himself And for thy sawcy language and ill-bred behaviour and unmannerlinesse if thou had put all my letter down the Reader might have seen why I charge those things upon thee And therefore I had good ground to speak these words through all thy words and carriages towards me and also thy abusive and slanderous and sawcy expressions to my Esteemed friend in the truth M. F. which if thou hadst had either civility or the reason of a man or any regard to virtue thou would have been ashamed to utter or have written such things as thou didst but thou hast abused her letters as thou hast done mine and taken that which thou thinks may be for thy advantage and wrests our words as thou hast done the Scriptures and left out that in our letters which was the cause we spoke those things unto thee and plainly shew the cause which if any desire to know the cause we have them to shew for if we should put them in our book they would make it too great a volume too great together with thy slanderous letters and that thou should vomit so many slanders in thy book which thou would not let us have but only a few dayes and then thou glories and boasts in which time thou knew we could not answer them the particulars concerned in it being so far distant one from
Light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the World is an Anti-christ and Deceiver but here Priest Wiggan hath called John an Antichrist and Deceiver who came for a witness to bear witness of the true Light that lightens every man that comes into the world and I am the Light said Christ believe in the Light I am come a light into the world Joh. 8. 12. and they that did believe in the light had fellowship in it and the light that shone in their hearts gave them the knowledge of the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 4. 1 Ioh. 1. and so thou hast proved thy self to be an Antichrist and doth deny Christ come in the flesh who enlightens every man that comes into the world and thou calls the true light of Christ which the Saints and we walk in the Natural mans spirit and a Created light and a Natural light As to thy Objection which is against John who saith this is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the World Would John have bid them believe in it except it had been Christ Joh. 1. 7 8 9. and this is an invincible proof against thy assertion and all the people thou dost deceive and John was a true Witness but thou art a false and John bore a true witness to the Light but thou bears false witness against the light and so thou turns people from light to darkness and the true Apostle turned them from darkness to the light Acts 2. 6. And whereas thou say'st We write in several Books as may be seen this light Christ is God the Lord God and the Lamb the Object of Faith and this true Light which is Christ enlightens not some but every man coming into the World and therefore it must needs be saving and that this light can be meant for no other then of Christ they further alleage John 3. 12. 12. 35 36. where it is plainly exprest that Christ is the Light Answ In this thou hast manifested thy ignorance of the Scriptures and of the Saints Testimony and thou scoffs because we say Christ hath not enlightened some but all and so thou art he that makes Sects amongst the people in saying he doth not enlighten them all thou may as well say his love was not to all in giving his Son for all and we say Christ the light is the object of Faith the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world by whom the world was made and this is our Testimony to all men for the Lord and Christ is the light and the Lamb and God is light And this is our Message which we have heard of him that God is light and in him is no darkness at all and Christ and God will dwell in man whom we witness Glory to him for ever through which we see over thee who hath long deceived some of us Whereas thou say'st We have perverted many Scriptures That is false for we speak them as they are but it is manifest thou hast per verted many and quoted many false and many people that doth not know thy subtle devices but takes all things for granted without any trial such thou may deceive for thy Book manifests it self sufficiently if it had not been answered but only for the sake of the simple which thou keeps under thee in thy error and delusion that they might see thee and come from under thy snare for we are satisfied as to our selves for thy work is only to keep people in darkness from the light and we are come from under thy Captivity and see thy subtlety and snares and know what thou can say and long enough since saw thy confusion And thou say'st when it is said that was the true light which enlighteneth every man that comes into the World It must be considered first who this true Light is secondly how he doth enlighten every man that comes into the World for first the Scriptures do witness that this true Light is the word God by whom the World was made thus it is said Joh. 11. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God all things was made by him that is by the Word God John was sent to bear witness of the Light that is of the word God that was the true Light that is the word God even he by whom the World was made he was in the World and the World knew him not which was the Creator and former of all things Ans In this you may see how he hath perverted the Scriptures and overthrown his Assertion and his former Writings in his Books for he saith that the light which lighteneth every man that comes into the World which John bore Testimony of is the word God by which all things was made and created which men was to believe in this was not a saving light saith he though it be Divine and doth he not call it a Created light a Natural light and the spirit of a Natural Man and now it is God and not saving for the Scripture saith the Word was with God Joh. 1. and this speaks of Christ and Christs Name is called the Word of God Rev. 19 13. and the Word was with God that thou hast left out and this Word became Flesh So he goes about to prove that Christ was not the Word with the Father before the World began which is contrary to the Scripture which saith I was with him in the beginning as Solomon saith and Christ saith Glorifie thou me with the same Glory which I had with thee before the World was Joh. 17. And again thou say'st The Word God thus considered is the true light the fountain and original of all lights according to the Scripture 1 Joh. 1. 5. God is light and in him is no darkness at all this is he in whom was life and the life was the light of men in whom we live move and have our being we are his off-spring and he is the fountain both of light and life to all beings according to their capacities as their Creator and thus we may see what this true light is the word God Answ And yet thou saist before this was not saving this true Light this word God how dark art thou is not Christ called God and his Name the Word of God Emanual God with us and 2 Pet. 3. 7. the Heavens and the Earth which are now by the same Word are kept in store c. And Heb. 11. 3. Through faith we understand that the Worlds were framed by the Word of God c. And Christ is the Light and Life of Men and not saving and is not he saving and is not he spiritual and saving whom all has a being in and moving in didst thou not call him before a natural Light and a created Light and a natural Mans spirit and would prove it out of Cor. 2. and now it is God and Creator and not Christ
John who saw they was come said the Saints had the Anointing within them to teach them and they needed not any man to teach them but as the Anointing teacheth them and the Apostles brought them to the Light within them and the Law within them and Christ bid them not to follow the false Prophets but he would dwell in them and his spirit should lead them into all truth Joh. 14. and 2 Cor. 4. Heb. 8. 1. And whereas thou saist We have cryed against the Priests and Teachers as Hirelings and deceivers coveteus scandalous c. and their Hearers as ignorant superstitious formal and that every charge hath much of truth in it Ans Here thou art made to confess something to the Truth as the Devil did to the Son of God and hath judged thy self too for thou was one that we cryed against at Manchester and our testimony stands against thee as it did who professes what thou art not dost thou not remember Elizabeth Hulme John Abraham James Harrison and what a rage and madness thou was in when they came to thee to declare the things of God and how thou lift up thy Fist of wickedness against John Abraham and could not hold thy violent hands and the guilt in you all have answered our testimony and thou yet was never able to stand to truths face nor answer the truth if thou had thou would have answered the Queries e're now And we are not of them which cries loe here is Christ or loe there is Christ but as the Apostle saith Col. 1. 27 28. Christ in you the hope of Glory whom we preach warning every man and teaching every man that we might present every man perfect in Christ Jesus and Christ was not like to be found amongst you when you denyed the Light and they that were innocent that had received the Light quickly saw you and this Light hath and will stop all your mouthes that denies it and the Light is not a shew but the substance And thou would seem to hide thy self from the carnal proud professors as if thou wert not of them but they that knows thee knows what thou hast been and what thou art yet and all thy Congregations which thou hast gathered where hast thou left them now so that which thou who denies the Light hath been doing is but to beat the Air. And all that were sober and feared God seeing you persecuting us and reviling against the Light and against the Spirit and what unchristian actions they used against us was a cause through quiring into truth to cause them to forsake you who denyed the Light of Jesus who broke into confusion amongst your selves and biting at truth and biting at one another till you were consumed one of another And so the good meaning people that did not make Godliness a game as you did imbraced the Light of Jesus and came into the fellowship of the Light and the Gospel which is the power of God Rom. 1. And whereas thou saist The well meaning people easily fell into their Net to do homage to their new God in the mean while the ignorant rash Priests and people who dealt with them lost themselves and injured the truth and gave this people ground to glory over them Ans If the well meaning people fell to us then the ill meaning people staid with you and this manifests you are fallen from truth when the well meaning forsook you And whereas thou saist they did homage to their new God Nay it s that God and Christ which 〈◊〉 ever was and will be whom you for sook and denyed as thou denies still and mocked with your words like them that opposed the Apostles and called it a new Doctrine a setter forth of strange Gods Acts and so you did injure the truth as thou dost now and it is Christs Net which they were catched in which kept the good and threw out the bad according to thy own Words and as you have injured the truth so hath God brought his judgments upon you and thou hath given us as much cause to glory over thee as ever any did but our glorying was and is in the Lord God and his Son Jesus Christ who hath dearly bought us with his Blood and thou that denies the Light crucifies Christ afresh and puts him to open shame And whereas thou saist the right course to deal with us is to distinguish between good and evil Ans This thou hast not done as is manifest in thy Book but like one of the false Prophets who follows thy own spirit and sees nothing but puts darkness for light and light for darkness and thou hast manifested thy unrighteous dealing to us in all thy Book and thou dost not own the good nor imbrace it nor cherish it how canst thou when thou denies the Light of Christ for that which doth make manifest and reproves is light and all things is manifest by the Light and this Light thou hatest and chofest the darkness Ephesians 5. and loves it more then the Light John 3. And whereas thou saist Thou will joyne issue with us to bear witness against hireling Priests against Tythes against superstitious carnal Worship against swearing against corrupt worldly customes herein joyne with them are they at least in shew for the power of Godliness as well as the forme for worshipping in spirit and truth for justice for Righteousness sobriety mercy gravity and whatsoever is excellent in life and conversation so am I yea whatsoever they can make appear to be evil that I would east off with as much indignation as they and what further good they can shew that I have not learned that would I gladly imbrace Ans When did John Wiggan bear Testimony against Hireling Priests and Tyth-takers should not John Wiggan had Tythes at Manchester to make up his Wages and was not he a Priest at his Chappels where he put off his dark Ware denying the Light of Christ and now when John hath lost his Chappels he will cry against them and their formality now when he cannot get them Oh subtilty but would he cry against them if he had 100. or 200 l. a Year given him nay would he not bless them for it and how can thou worship God in spirit truth who denies Christ the Light spirit of God to be in every man Thou art a false Worshipper thy Worship is false the Lord moved us to cry against thee and that in thy high dayes and must thou talk of crying against corrupt Customs and be in them thy self for thy evil words hath corrupted thy manners and thou art not for the power of Godliness and thou art far from the modesty gravity or justice or righteousness thy language bewrayes thee as thy lyes and slanders with mocking scoffing reproachful words and thy sawey language to Friends and especially to Margaret Fells which shames both Learning and Breeding and that most excellent thing in life and conversation thou hast
another And John if Thomas Curwen Husbandman which is a better Calling then thy Trade who hath often been moved of the Lord to write to thee is able to indict letters having been often burthened with thy hypocrisie and vain deceit and fleshly performances which thou hast charged falsely upon me in a letter And here thou publishes that which thou knows not slandering us both with that which thou art ignorant of not knowing but another might do it and so hast published thy ignorance Dost thou think this will stand amongst wise men And thou hast said thou will never learn in my Masters School which is Christ the Light nor come to the Law which is the Schoolmaster until Christ which thou art ignorant of both And within all this time thou might have answered my Queries if thou had been in the meeknesse but it is manifest thou art choaked with evil and envy and possest with a bitter spirit that thou hast not power to do good And as for thy dreaming it is manifest if thou hadst been awaked thou would have answered my Queries and cleared thy assertion and convict me if I had opposed my self but thou hast denyed this office and work and in stead of giving satisfaction herein thou hast published thy own shame I would not have thee to envy me so much for the good I have to thee for which of those things dost thou thus deal with me Is it not because I have told thee the truth for which of those good deeds dost thou rail of me so fast Was it not a good deed to tell thee thou was a Deceiver knowirg thee to be so for now thy fruits makes thee manifest to be a deceiver and whom thou hast deceived 2 Pet. 2. Mat. 7. 24. And whereas thou hast picked a few lines out of James Parkes private letter sent unto thee whom thou seems to pretend love to and now publishes them and this was thy love was it not time for me to forsake thee being long deceived by thee and has known thy Principles and thee long and thy feigned love but should thou not have put all my letter down that the Reader might have seen it and judged with thy words which was the occasion of it and the words which thou slanderously spoke in secret but thou wilt manifest thy self that thy solly may appear which cannot abide plainnesse but my letter is true to thy condition and thou wilt find it so And I tell thee it was a fraudulous part of thee to publish a part of my letter and not all or other Friends letters either and far off the truth and below a wise man but it is well that thou hast published so much as thou hast done that people may read thy book and see the words come true upon thee John Wigan this in Answer to part of thy Appendix WHerein thou mentions Margaret Fells Letters and has therein falsifyed my words as it is the usual manner of thee and such deceivers as thou art for you do so with the Scriptures who makes a trade of them and teaches for filthy Iucre you take here a piece and there a piece such as will make for your own ends and for your advantage and for the setting up of your Image you make and so leaves poor people dark and ignorant of the Scriptures and also of your deceitful dealings with them and so keeps them in darkness and preaches unto them that they must carry a body of fin with them as long as they are upon the earth and they are no other like so long as they that are blind follows thee and such like that are blind and so you all go into the ditch together which is your place and shuts the kingdom of heaven against men and neither enters in your selves nor suffer them that would go in to enter Mat. 23. 13. But thou hast intended in taking pieces of my letters here and there to make them seem more odious to the Reader and also thou has intended thereby to cover thy own nakednesse and ignorance of God and his truth in leaving out the cause and ground of my speaking those words which is nothing but truth to thee according to the Scriptures where they stand written to thee though thou endeavours by thy overskipping and taking words here and there to make them non-sense to the Reader yet as they stand and as thou hast set them any rational man of truth and honesty that knows what thou hast written and spoken to me and others will judge them to be truth to thee Therefore for the further manifestation of thy wickednesse I shall by plain Scripture convince the Reader that reads with an impartial eye and prove thee a blasphemer against God and his truth as it is in Jesus and when I have done so then let the Reader judge whether thou be not guilty in truth and reality and of all I have writ to thee The cause of my first writing to thee was from thy blasphemous book which thou put out against Christ Jesus the Light our corner stone which thou boastingly saies thou strikes at and I can truly say and the Lord that judges all hearts knows that I had no delight to meddle with thee seeing thee a conceited man only in deceit and ignorance but I was moved of the Lord in the vindication of his truth to bear my testimony for his truth and to write to thee and to leave thee without excuse 1. In thy Book thou saith Whoever calls and worships this the Light in every man as the Redeemer worships an imaginary and fictious Christ and indeed an idol and in another place of thy book thou saies That the Light in every man that comes into the world set up and worshipped in prayers and praises All the Honour and Attributes due to the true Redeemer alone being ascribed to it which is an Idolatry so much worse then that of Jeroboams or of the Papists In a third place of thy book thou saiest Admit this grand lie for the Corner stone and the whole super structure will consist of lies These with many other such blasphemous speeches thou hast uttered forth in thy book which I shall forbear to trouble the Reader with they being answered before Again in thy second letter to me thou hast sent writ these words its likely thou hast never been so plainly told that thou sets up an idol if thou call the light that is in every man that comes into the world Christ the Redeemer and if thou worships that light as the Redeemer that thou art an Idolater It seems by these words that thou hast writ these words in thy former letter which I sent back with the answer and so hath not the words there written here to produce but here is enough and sufficient to manifest thee an absolute blasphemer against Christ and the holy Ghost Answ The Light of Christ Jesus which we bear witnesse of which hath lighted every
taken it caused thee to spew out these words and to be so large in writing against Friends and the truth and for the reason of calling them dogs the Scriptures are very plain for they were called greedy dumb dogs who sought for gain from their quarter and yet there was many to lick up their vomit likewise they were called Dogs which were without as thou may read in the Revelations And for thy Challenge to us we were willing to meet thee but thou was not willing to meet us although thon before challenged to meet G. F. or any of his friends what is the cause dost thou not condescend to men of low degree for if I meet thee it is not with hoasting my self in other mens lines made ready to my hand but in the name and power of the Lord in the Light of his Son Christ for this I say unto thee if thou had not used deceit thou would have written down my whole Paper but I shall cause it to be written down my self that all may see it and do not charge George Fox with it and since thou hast given a second Challenge but hast not answered the first which we did call on thee to do and to make good thy assertions but thou shuffles off from it and names G. Fox and flees from us and will make it good to neither the Paper is as follows we desire thee with patience to read it over Oh friend John Wiggan it seems old Wood's and Curwen's Pills which they gave thee to work out that old Leaven that hath layn so long within thee but this hath wrought of the contrary part and hath caused thee to vomit and spew out upon a piece of Paper and sent forth for the Dogs to lick up and they being eager doth take so much of this thy filthy spewing that it causeth them to vomit as thou dost therefore it was high time to call for it that no more be made sick with it thou hast used so many friends names in it that by the reason that it was taken away so suddenly and unexpectedly that they cannot reply unto it thou saith thou hast answered Wood's Queries but it appears that they remain unanswered and likewise thou put down 24. Queries of Curwen's unanswered therefore Henry Wood and Thomas Curwen will meet thee to answer thy Challenge which thou hath put forth and saith thou would be answered before the High Sheriffe for we are not careful to answer thee in this matter although thou useth the name of Christ thou doth not depart from iniquity as it doth appear by thy smiting at the Corner-stone which is the Light thou art far behind the woman of Samaria for she said is not this the Christ that hath shewed me all that ever I did it appears to me that thou esteems this at a low value which shewes thee all things that ever thou did and calls it Natural although it testifie against those things that are natural and carnal where thou art worshipping the God of the World which blinds the eye of the children of disobedience the vaile of darkness is so thick that thou cannot see thorow it nor comprehend the Light that giveth the Light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ which shineth in the heart And whereas thou saist thy assertion is made good it appears to all that are wise that it is not made good at all for thou hath challenged another Meeting so appoint the place and time and Thomas Curwen and Henry Wood and William Houlding or any of them will meet thee and hear what thou can say against Christ the saving Light Now whereas thou saist not a word in all those Papers discovers the unsoundness of thy Assertion Ans Thou should have published the Papers to the Readers and then they might have judged of it whether thou hast spoken truth or no but thou art afraid to publish that which makes against thee but takes here a word and there a word thinking thereby to villifie friends but they are made manifest in the hearts of people and all thy slanders nor any thing thou canst do will hurt any of us for was there a worse word spoken to thee which was spoken in the truth then thou thy self did speak to me and other friends faisly and unjustly and why didst thou not publish in thy Book those four sheets of Paper that the Reader might have seen them and our expressions in our Letters had they been light vain and frivilous thou would have made advantage upon them and not have hid them but have published them in thy Book as thou hast done some few lines of them but they are true unto thy condition and will stand on thy head and it doth become Saints to bear testimony against deceit and there is much in thy Papers that contradicts thy Assertion and my Paper was true and overthrew it which thou publisht a few lines of and then tells the Reader of four sheets and never a word to discover thy assertion and thus thou loves thy deeds of darkness and hates the Light and thus thy folly is made manifest to all men 2 Tim. 3. And whereas thou saist thou hast not published this abroad but we have done it first which is false for we did publish nothing in the Town for the Letter which I gave to the Jaylor thou hadst but I did not send it into the Town but gave it to Thomas Hardy but thou sent thine into the Town and abroad and was not so honest as to give us a Coppy of it and thy assertion was answered by plain Scripture but was never proved by plain Scripture but is thy chaffie imaginations and wresting the Scriptures which is nothing but spewing from a child of darkness which hates the Light Joh. 3. Rev. and hath not God spewed thee and thy Religion and Worship out of his mouth Levit. 18. 28. And whereas thou speaks how we cursed thee with the plagues of God the Scripture saith the plagues of God is to thee who adds to the Scripture as thou hast done and it was thou that said the plagues of God was upon me but thy curses are causless so what we have writ and spoken to thee it was from the Spirit of God and the Lord hath judged between thee and us in this matter and his judgment is clear and thy hidden things of darkness is come to Light 1 Cor. 4. and there is no Communion between Light and darkness 2 Cor. 6. and the mist of darkness is over thee 2 Pet. 2. the darkness hath blinded thy eyes Joh. 2. Reserved under the Chains of darkness Jude 6. and Rev. 6. read that and see thy own condition Whereas thou saist Had it not been a more easie and commendable work in one sheet plainly to have discovered and refuted error if any such be in my Writings then to have filled 3. or 4. sheets with such stuffe as this surely a right spirit would have
I have told them the truth and not for any other cause c. Ans That which thou hast spoken hath been against the truth and is lyes and the Reader may see thou calls Christ an Idol a natural Light a created Light and spirit of a Natural man contrary to the Scripture and so thou being against Christ the Scriptures and Gods people therefore have we writ to thee and spoken to thee being according to thy own Challenge in love and in a Scripture way and it is for Christs sake thou hates us And whereas thou speaks of another sheet that thou will present to discover the mystery of iniquity Bring out all the strength thou hast for it will further discover thy own iniquity and thou shalt not find Christ Natural or Created nor an Idol but in his strength we shall answer thee And whereas thou saist to the inquirer and weak Take heed of the Religion that begins with a lye for it is certain a great judgment of God to be given up to believe lyes 2 Thes 2. 10. and that the first step to this peoples Religion is an abominable lye and that every one is taught and required at his enterance into this Religion to believe this lye I have shewed in my former Paper Ans It is thy own Religion which is begun with a lye therefore all people are to take heed of it who denies Christ the Light Joh. 1. 8 12. and art given up to believe lyes and utter the same 2 Thes 2. And whereas thou maliciously saith To turn people from the darkness to the Light of Christ being our first step is a lye Ans In this thou hast proved thy self a false Minister and contrary to the Scripture and the Apostles Ministry which was the same which is the first step in this thou hast manifest thy envy as all yong people may see who enquireth after the Lord Acts 2. and the abominable lye is thy own and little else but lyes in thy Book and so thou may expect the judgment of the Lord to be thy portion And whereas thou bids them take heed of that spirit that denyes Christ come in the Flesh least they be partaker of his evil deeds by biding him God speed Answ This is thy own condition thou art the Man who denyes him to be come to enlighten all Men and denyes his Light to be convincing and so has denyed John's testimony a Man sent from God John 1. And so none that feares God can bid thee God speed in thy evil work therefore thou art offended and we shall not be partakers with thee of thy evil deeds for no other Christ do we own but he who dyed at Jerusalem above sixteen hundred years since who sits at the right hand of God and is revealed in us according to his promise who saith I will come and dwell in you as in Joh. and the Cor. 1. Cor. 3. 16. Act. 3. 20. and Collo 1. 26. 27 28. and all who are called Christians confess Christ to be come but deny the end of his coming to destroy the Devil and his works 1 Ioh. 3. 68. and to take away sin but they must have sin while they be upon the Earth this is your general Doctrine and denyes Christ to be come a Light into the World according to both the Prophets and Apostles And whereas thou saist Take heed of that people who have no better weapons then censures cursings judging threatnings Answ Our weapons are spiritual and we have related over to thee thy due according to the Scripture as the Scriptures threatens thee and pronounces these Plagues to be due to thee who addes to it and we teach that people might follow Christ Jesus the Light of the World and not follow thee who saist he is a natural Light and an Idol and a created Light and James 3. 9. is thy condition and so thou art the Man that deceives people with vain words Ephe. 5. 6. and with fair speeches the hearts of the simple Rom. 16. 18. And as for giving satisfaction thou art not likely who denyes the Light Christ Jesus and any who reads thy confused Book may see there is no satisfaction given in it though thou hast perverted many Scriptures and as for thy further debate upon thy assertion we tould thee we were ready and tell thee so now again who hast challenged us twice in this thy Book to meet us before the Sheriff which thou might have spared this Challenge in thy Appendix for we had given thee an Answer before we would meet thee to wit Thomas Curwen Husbandman William Houlding Blacksmith William Wilson Taylor and Henry VVood a dayly Labourer Seeing thou art the Man who hath challenged us we shall in the strength of the Lord meet thee when thou wilt and appoint a time and place for we were the Men whom thou hadst first to deale withall in this place and what dost thou scoffingly put Shoo-maker in which was not in which is a word of thy own forging as though thou was not able to Answer us or durst not stand to thy own assertions but shuffles from them And one would have thought John Henry VVood had given thee disputing enough before when thou was so gravel'd and stopt thou fled away from the Table and now it seemes thou hast put it of till the Magistrates call us out as though they had nothing to do but to medle with thy Antichristian wayes Nevertheless it stands on thy head and do not say we provoked thee for it was thy own Challenge for thou hast taken that in hand thou canst not make good by the Scriptures without adding or diminishing we know that before hand And whereas thou saist He that saith and affirmeth the Light in every man to be Christ is a deceiver and an Antichrist Ans The Light that lighteth every man that comes into the World he that affirmed this was no Antichrist Joh. 1. who said As many as receives him he gives them them power to become the Sons of God and here thou hast shewed forth thy malice against Christ and against the Apostle who bore witness of him and in plain words calls him an Autichrist and against us who are in the same Doctrine and teach the same thing and thou hast proved thy self to be an Antichrist 2 Joh. 9. for Christ is the Light and Salvation to the ends of the Earth who doth enlighten euery man that comes into the world Joh. 1. Joh. 8. Luke 2. 32. And thou saist what feeble shifts are those my Assertion striks at their very foundation and before they make that good they would run into other matters they seem to be weary of their cause but I must hold them to it till their Corner-stone and mine be so thorowly tryed that it may evidently appear whither of us be of the true Rock Christ Jesus Ans Thy Rock which thou so calls is tryed and found to be no Rock but confusion who denies Christ Jesus
the true Rock which the Prophets prophesied of should come whom the Apostles witnessed was come and for thy false saying that we grow weary and before thou complained we urged thee on how stands thy confusion together with reasonable men let them judge and we do not shuffle with thy assertion neither are weary of our cause which thou saist we are for we need not for we know what thou art who is wholly bent against Christ it is thou which is weary of thy cause and shuffles as thou hast reason for we relate some other of thy Assertions which thou hast laid down art thou now ashamed of them and yet saist thou will hold us to it and yet answers nothing to the purpose and it is Christ the foundation which thou strikes against as the Jewes did but to no purpose and thus thou and thy fellow Priests hath strucken at him who is our foundation till you be all fallen into the ditch and leads the people thither too it is manifest to the Nations Thou saist in thy Appendix again Thou art willing to debate the point in controversie before the Sheriff or others in Authority and saist let not G. F. thinke to shuffle himself out and put his taske upon others for he must know because it is affirmed that he was called of the Lord from his Trade as the Apostles were my desire is to deale with him chiefly in this matter and such others as say they are Apostles that their Doctrine and deeds being brought to Light it may appear whether they be true Apostles indeed or false and preach another Gospel then Jesus and Paul did as I have cause to suspect them and doubt not to prove them to be if they adhere to the Principles laid down in their Printed Books and maintained in their late debate Answ This is thy shuffle and base charge whereas thou saist G. F. would shuffle from it and lay it upon others that is false it s thou would shuffle from those which thou hast begun withall it seemes we gave thee enough the last time thou needs not call of G. F. for the least of us in the Truth is able to Answer thee and to see if thou can make good thy assertions which thou could not make good in the last Dispute nor hast not done yet which we yet call on thee to doe which by the Scriptures of Truth thou canst not prove without adding or diminishing and the same Jesus and Gospel whom Paul preached whom we own which thou saist thou will prove an Idol and prove us Antichrists who affirme this and as for all our Books which are given forth from the Truth we own and our deeds are brought to the Light and by this thine are seen and thou too to be one of the false Teachers and thy deeds to be deeds of darkness and why dost thou pervert M. F's words in saying G. F. was called from his Trade when her words was he was called from his Calling as thou reports and thou talkes of trying Apostles and denyes the Light Christ in thy dark spirit and calls Christ an Idol and natural Light and as for G. F. whose name thou hast publisht abroad in thy Letters up and down beyond the Sands and towards Manchester and to M. F. and sometimes scoffing at his Leather-Breeches sometimes at one thing sometimes at another and never was so civil as to write to him so we do look thou should make thy assertions good to us before thou medle with him for they concern us and we are the Men that will encounter with thee as before mentioned according to thy Challenge whom thou in scorn calls Meckhanike Men and as for me Thomas Curwen I nor none of us are no more Mechanicke then thy self nor never had collection yet John Though I have been a Prisoner above four yeares canst thou say so John and as for me G. F. I never spoke with thee but three times since thou came hither and once at London and I heard such euil language from thee as I never heard from man I coming into the last dispute with friends and then there being liberty granted I hearing thee lay down thy Assertions and affirming them together with thy people first That some men that came into the world had not the spirit of God which was put to thee to make good being thou was the mouth for them by plain Scripture without adding or diminishing which thou seemed to prove out of Jude which thou couldst not and that God denyed faith to some men and that Christ did not shed his blood for all men and that Balaam had no more spirit then his horse and that wicked men had not the spirit of God These things with several others which you asserted was put to thee to make good which thou hast not done to this day Nevertheless thou hast challenged to meet me G. F. and having disperst my Name in several Papers in a slanderous way and thy brother Price which came down to Fell's Chamber and Challenged me out which I presently came up and sent William Houlding to thee and bid thee come down to me in the Hall but thou would not come at me And whereas thou challenges me G. F. to meet thee before the Sheriffe My Answer is send me word when thou wilt and that thou will make these Assertions good by the plain Scriptures without adding or diminishing which thou hast laid down to me for I am ready to meet thee through the power and strength of Almighty God and if I have liberty according as thou hast challenged and many things more I have of thine for thee to make good which I shall not here put to Ink and Paper by plain Scripture for truth remains over all deceit G. F. And why dost thou flatter me William Houlding dost thou now own Mechanicks but thou owned none when thou writ to M. F. but jeared at G. F. in this report and lost thy Religion to talk of his Leather-Breeches and thus Fools will be medling with that which doth not concern them busie bodies in others matters And when thou had abused M. F. in thy Papers she sent for thee to speak with thee about the abuse but thou would not come at her and manifested herein thy guilt and uncivility and dost thou not make a noise abroad against us amongst ignorant people and keeps them from the Light that so thou maist get some Collections of them for thy Letters to M. F. signifies something of a false fear and jealousie that something should have gone besides thy mouth cruly I think that is the cause of thy rage against us who owns Christ Jesus the Light W. H. Here followes a Coppy of a Paper which was given to John Wiggan of his Assertions FRiend John Wiggan we hearing of a Book thou hast given into the Town before we had a Coppy of it another Challenge to us to meet before some publick Magistrate and the Sheriffe we
for thou Challenged us first or give over Challenging for we would have discoursed with thee privately in a Christian way in thy Chamber but thou in great rage denyed it And another time Thomas Curwen came into thy Chamber in a Christian way and thou took hold of him and shook him by his Coat and like to have torne it off his back and laid violent hands on him and would have thrust him out of thy Chamber for it s very well that the discourse be before a Magistrate to keep thee civil for thy carriage in the last dispute was not so hansome So provided that thou keep thy people in order and thy self also that you may speak one by one and so speak as many as will on both sides that the spirit need not be limited in any for thou was the first man that broke the order in the last Dispute and spake when another man was speaking which was taken notice of by all the wise and sober And also provided that thou keep down that foolish spirit of Laughter and be more modest and civil then thou was in the last Dispute when we were discoursing of the things of God and answer these things by Scripture according to thy Challenge before the Sheriffe and in the strength of the Lord we will meet thee if liberty may be had and when thou hast made good these things by Scripture if thou have any thing to say to any else they will answer thee These Principles he hath laid down and spoken to friends and some were in Books which his brother Evan Price sent to us and Iohn Wiggan was offended because we did mark them for errors which you may see how contrary they be to the Scriptures of truth William Houlding Blacksmith Henry Wood who is a daily Labouring man who cannot read a word on a Book and Thomas Curwen Husbandman and VVilliam VVilson Taylor dointend to give Iohn VViggan a meeting before the Sheriffe according to his Challenge if the Lord will And these things and also worse things in the Book we desire to be brought forth to the light at the Dispute and there they may be proved for he did Challenge us first though our Lives be out of disputes yet we shall give him a meeting and for him to make these things good by plain Scripture And also besides all the scandals slanders and villifyings and lyings and unsavory sawcy language and scornful reproachful speeches in a jearing scoffing and villifying way against us and these be some of his notorious Principles which he could never make good by plain text of Scripture which he has long made a trade upon to get his living by and in a feigned carriage and humility to go up and down and insence and sow discord and to make the minds of the simple envious against such as honours God and loves virtue but his rage and violent hands hath been known upon Richard Huberthorn Iohn Abraham Thomas Curwen and others who may seem to be simple and in an outward appearance to be a humble man to those who swallow down all without any question proof or tryal but when he comes to be tryed his rage and passion and violent hands comes to be felt and seen by such as Reasons with him in a Christian way We desire thee I. VV. that thou would send for the Book which thou and thy brother Price was grieved because we marked them for errors which was so contrary to Scripture Here followes some Queries for J. W. to Answer 1. WHether I. VV. is a fit man to preach the Gospel of peace that layes violent hands on people 2. And whether or no that he can preach the Gospel of peace and be not in the peace himself to all men 3. And whether or no this was the spirit of Christ in I. VV. when Thomas Curwen went to reason with him of the things of God in a Christian way and like to have torn his Coat off his back that T. C. was faine to cry out what a Minister of Christ and fight And also Iohn Abraham when he went to him to be satisfied in the things of God he laid hands of him and thrust him away Whether or no these be the fruits of a Minister of Christ and whether or no these be not the fruits of a Natural man and whether or no this spirit can give satisfaction in the things of God but only with his Natural spirit make use of the Scriptures for his own end 4. And whether or no such a persecuting spirit both with tongue and hands be not alwaies blind 5. And whether or no the blind leads any whether but into the Ditch so whether or no he that leads into the ditch doth know the things of God that leads to Heaven 6. And whether or no this blind spirit may not give forth many Queries for others to answer and yet answer none proposed to him and lay down many Assertions and make none good by the Scriptures of truth as you may see Henry VVoods and Thomas Curwens Queries lyes unanswered yet and his own false Assertions not proved by the Scriptures without adding or diminishing 7. And so whether a striker a railer a fighter Christ sent such to preach the Gospel of peace and such as disdaines and scornes Tradesmen and calls them Mechanicke men as Iohn VViggan doth 8. And whether or no he doth not go in the high Priests rode scorning the Apostles as being Tradsmen Fishermen unlearned 9. And whether or no these simple Tradesmen did not bring more Glory to God then all the wise men such as Iohn VViggan in the Earth or Pilat with his Greek and Latin yea I say Abel Iacob and David Keepers of Sheep and Elisha called from the Plow and Amos a Herdsman and Peter and Iohn Fishermen and Paul a Tentmaker Nay did not the Iewes mockingly call Christ a Carpenters Son And what think you now of Iohn VViggan who has called and Challenged us Mechanick men twice to meet him before the Sheriffe that he would make good his erronious Assertions and when we laid down his Assertions and said we would meet him he now disdaines us as Mechanick men 10. Whether these hands that will thrust and pull and hale and like to pull peoples Cloaths off their backs be the holy hands that are lifted up in Prayer 1 Tim. 2. 8. or the fifts of wickedness spoken of in Isa 48. 4. Thomas Curwen William Houlding Henry Wood. William Wilson ERRATA Page the 3. line the 2. for some read so p. 6. l. 10. f. the r. thy p. 24. l. 22. f. thing r. things p. 25. l 22. f. not as r. as not l. 32. f leght r. light p. 43. l. 4. f. the spirit of a man r. the spirit of a natural man l 27. f. is r. not p. 52. l 3. f. springing r. spring p. 54. l 16. f. deserve r. discern p. 64. l 8. for knows the things of God r. knows not