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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88587	A modest and clear vindication of the serious representation, and late vindication of the ministers of London, from the scandalous aspersions of John Price, in a pamphlet of his, entituled, Clerico-classicum or, The clergies alarum to a third war. Wherein his king-killing doctrine is confuted. The authors by him alledged, as defending it, cleared. The ministers of London vindicated. The follies, and falsities of Iohn Price discovered. The protestation, vow, and the Covenant explained. / By a friend to a regulated monarchy, a free Parliament, an obedient army, and a godly ministry; but an enemy to tyranny, malignity, anarchy and heresie.	Love, Christopher, 1618-1651.	1649 (1649)	Wing L3168; Thomason E549_10; ESTC R204339	63,269	85

saith will not reach to such a case as ours For 1. I read in his b●ok called the Appell●tion of John Knox pag. 78. that he pleads onely for the punis●ing of such Kings as are Idolaters and Tyrants against God and his known truth now our late King was not such a one Secondly he speakes of such Kings as were rashly and unadvisedly chosen by the People now our King was not meerly elective but had a title to the Crowne by succession and a just Hereditation Thirdly I do not read in his Book called the Appellation c. that he contends for bringing Kings to a judiciall Tryall and taking away their lives but onely in generall of punishing and deposing them Now what is said here by way of answer to what you alledged out of Mr. Knox may serve also for an answer to Goodman whom you call the great associate of John Knox The third Author you quote is Doctor John Ponnet in his Books called A Short Treati se of Politique Power Cap. 6. pag. 45. Answ. 'T is true Dr. Ponnet is of large principles in this point yet 1. 't is to be observed that when he made his booke it was in the reign of Queen Mary Ann. 1556. and so spake of Popish not Protestant Princes yea it was during the time of his banishment out of England at which time his discontent might make him to bee led more by passion then reason 2. Though hee holds it lawfull for a People to depose and kill a Tyrant yet he gives not this power abslutely to a particular party but to the body of the People The body saith he ●f every State may if it will yea and ought to r●dresse and correct the vi●●● of their Heads and Governours I am sure you cannot say the body of this State was for the execution of the King there were an hundred against it to one for it Yea 3 Though hee goes further that private men may kill a Magistrate yet he holds it with some speciall limitations In some cases private men saith he may kill their Magistrates as when a Governour shall with his sword run upon an innocent or go about to shoot him with a gun or if he should be found in bed with a mans wife or ravish a mans daughter or go about to make away his Country to Forraig●ers Now can you prove the King to be guilty of such things as these If not your quotation of Ponnet doth not reach our case To close this I would aske you Are you of Dr. Ponnets mind that any private man may kill a Tyrant do you thinke that Moses his practise in killing the Aegyptian and Ehud slaying Eglon is to be imitated by every private man It seemes you do so why else do you urge these instances out of Doctour Ponnet to justifie your King-killing Doctrine If you do I feare you will often times follow the Devils instigation to murder the innocent when you thinke 't is the impression of Gods spirit on your heart to do justice on the guilty Oh take heed that you be not given over to beleeve lies and then to worke wickednesse with greedinesse Before I leave this unsafe assertion in Dr. Ponnets Booke of which you approve viz. that private men may kill a Tyrant I desire that this might lye sadly on your heart suppose you should think such a Magistrate to be a Tyrant and a murderer and because none wil put to death that Tyrant therefore you hold your selfe bound to do it suppose againe another thinkes him to be a just Magistrate whom you slew and kils you that killed him and a third kils him that killed you and so ad infinitum Is not this the way to make us Cains not Christians one unto another and in the end not to leave so many men in the world as Cain did when he slew his brother A fourth Author you quote is Junius Brutus supposed by good Authors to be Beza's workes in his booke called Vindiciae contra Tyrannos c. Answ. 1. Indeed if you count the Popish writer supposed to be Toby Matthewes to be a good Author who made that book intituled the Image of both Churches Jerusalem and Babylon by P. D. M. He saith it was Beza's works pag. 105. and yet herein he was no more ingenuous then you were for saith he if it was not Beza's it might be Hottomans pag. 107. and pag. 111. Do you deale candidly with so Orthodox a Divine as Beza was to receive the slanderous reports of Papists against so zealous a Protestant The same Author who said that Beza made that booke called Vindiciae contra tyrannos affirmed also that Beza usurpt another mans parish that hee was the husband of another mans wife c. the one is as true as the other 2. It may bee made demonstrable that Beza was not the Authour of that book which goes under the name of Junius Brutus for can it be imagined that so sober and learned a man as Beza was should be so inconsistent to his owne principles to write one thing in one book and the quite contrary in another throughout all the veins of his writings he calls for subjection to Magistrates but not a word of deposing or murdering of Kings which is the whole drift of that book called Vindiciae contra tyrannos I could produce multitudes of places out of Bezaes works utterly repugnant to what is in Junius Brutu● take for presnt one or two Nullum aliud saith he rememedium proponitur privatis hominibus tyranno subjectis preter vitae emendationem proeces lachrymas that is there is no other remedy left to private men being subject unto a tyrant besides amendment of life prayers and teares Yea Beza was of this judgment that though private men might disobey the sinful commands of a Prince yet he was utterly against taking up of Arms T is ane thing said he not to obey Magistrates and another to resist or take up Arms which God doth not permit thee If Beza was against private mens taking up of defensive arms can it be imagined that he would plead for offensive Arms against the life and person of a King Indeed Beza hath a learned Tract extant de Haereticis a Magistrati● puniendis but not a word de Magistratibus ab Haereticis puniendis Beza did hold that Magistrates should punish Hereticks but never held that Hereticks should punish Magistrates 3. This Iunius Brutus whom you say good Authours affirm to be Bezaes works is indeed and intruth no other then the work of a Jesuite I have it from good hands that Parsons the Jesuite was the Author of that booke there are now some alive that can witnesse it that one Rench a Printer was condemned to be hanged for printing it and another book of the same mans under the name of Doleman And here I cannot but give the world notice that one of the good members now sitting at

you say the Army may be judges which is most inequitable for them to be judges in their own Cause then why may not any other 20000 men in the Kingdome plead necessity to oppose the Army as they did to oppose the Parliament should any party whose principles are not consistent with but contrariant to the Armies proceedings plead a necessity for their appearing for the interest of Religion laws of the land Priviledges of the Parliament and Liberties of the People c. how can you justifie the Army yet blame them 3. If the necessity pleaded for was so clear present and absolute as you pretend how it comes to pass that it can be discerned by none but by the Army themselves their own party This makes me of the same mind with the subscribers that the necessity pleaded for is but pretended or else contracted by their own miscarriages the Army that prevailed against the sharpest weapons of their enemies were overcome by this own poor dart of pretended necessity true is that Proverb durum telum necessitas could the Army have overcome their groundlesse fears and jealousies they would never have done what they did yea could they have trusted God they wonld have been of Austins mind Ferenda est magis omnis iniquitas quam perpeiranda est aliqua iniquitas viz. to endure the greatest evil rather then commit the least sin If your Temple work goes on slowly then the City is set on work the Country is excited the Apprentices encouraged to offer violence upon the two Houses forcing them to Vote and Vnvote at pleasure and encouraged by some of your Tribe and subscribers as shall be made good if occasion bee Answ. 1. It will turn to your reproach that you are builders of Babel but to their renown that they are imployed about Temple work which though it go on slowly yet safely you have no cause to despise the day of small things hee that hath laid the foundation stone will rear up the top of the building that all the people may cry Grace grace unto it 2. And whereas you say that they had excited men to offer violence to the two Houses forcing them to Vote and Vnvote c. I answer you measure other mens corn by your own Bushell and other mens hearts by your own practices you and your faction have offered violence to the two Houses forcing them to Vote and Unvote at your pleasure and yet you do the evill and other men must beare the blame 3. As to that you say that it shall be made good if occasion bee that some of the subscribers did encourage the Apprentices to offer violence to the Houses I shall give you but this answer viz. to give you a challenge and offer you an occasion to make it good if you can that you have not done it all this while I impute not to your lenity but their innocency And thus I have returned you an answer to the most materiall passages in your book I shall not meddle with those fond Queries you propose in the latter end thereof I know one fool can ask more questions in a day then twenty wise men can answer in a year You conclude your book with a prophane descant on a serious and savoury Sermon of Mr. Calamies you who were once when you wrote your Snapsack so humble as to say you were neither a Prophet nor the son of a Prophet are now so proud as to become a Lord judg of the Prophets yet those that know you will count your tongue to be no slander Mr. Calamies person is so well esteemed and his Ministry so approved that all your revilings will turn to his glory and your shame Mr. Calamy only affirmed that Anarchy Perjury Toleration c. are such deeps able to sink a Kingdome if you say the contrary you will shew your selfe a simple and shallow fellow To conclude all the counsell I shall give you is this that you would be more in the shop lesse in the pulpit more in your dwelling house lesse in the Printing-house then will the Church be less disturbed and your family better provided for FINIS M●●i quidem sufficit conscientia mea vobis autem necessaria est fama mea Aug. ad frat in ●●em Serm. 53. * Alluding to a book● entituled Honey out of the Rock made by ●ohn Price * See a Spiritual Snapsack for the Parliament Souldiers by Iohn Price p. 8. lin. 32 Pag. 2. lin 14. In Spiritual 〈◊〉 p. 6. l. 17. Pag. 2. l. 24. Epist. Dedicat. to the Lord Fairfax p. 1. p. 1. l. 30. Pag. 2. l. 3● Pag. 3. l. 5. Pag. 3. l. 16. Spiritual Snapsack by John Price p. 6. ● 17. Pag. 3. l. 36. Young ●●ng elder by John Goodwin p. 25. Pag. 4. l. 19. Pag 4. l. 35. * Armies R●mon June 23. 164● Pag. 5. l. 33. Pag. 6. lin. 22. Pag 7. l. 34. Pag. 8. l. 20. Declar. Ian. 17. 1641. Pag. 9. l. ● I. Goodwin in his Anti●aval p. 10. l. 31. I. P. p. 9. l. 16. I. P. pag. 9. l 24. ● P. p. 11. l. 36. and pag. 12. Pag. 12. lin. 10. Pag. 14. l. 26. Pag 15. l. 7. P. 15. l. 31. Aug. in Ps. 73. Tertul. Apol. The serious Representat of the London Ministers p. 14. I. P. pag. 18. l 9. I. P. Pag. 18. l. 10. ● P. p. 19. l. 8. I. P. p. 20. l. 34. I. P. p. 21. l. 6. ●●ad the Oath of Allegiance Exact Collect. Append. p. 15. p. 18. 13. 41. 43. 879. Exact Collect. p. 2●8 695. 657. 991. I. P. p. 22. l. 12. The King confest it in His 〈◊〉 Answer to the 19 Propositions of Iune 1642. that there is power legally in the two Houses of Parliament to restrain Him from Tyranny I. P. p. 24 l. 6. I. P. His Snapsack p. 8. Iohn Goodwin Anticaval p. 6. Vid. the Ord of P●rl 15. of Febr. 1644. as the first raising the Army under Sir T. Fairfax Pag. 23. lin. 3. I. P. Pag. 24. l. 14. I. P. p. 26. l. 3. See Testimony to the tr●●h● of Christ by the Ministers of London p. 28. I. P. p. 27. l. 1● I. P. pag. 28. l. 8. I. P. p. 28. l. 37. ●●hn Goodwin Anticav p. 11. I. P. His Snapsack p. 8. I. P. p. 30. ● 17. 1 Sam. 26. 9. Rom. 13. 4. Pareus on Gen. 9. 6. I. P. pa. 31. l. 27. See a Booke ●ntituled the image of both Churches Ierusal●m and Babylon by P. D. M. I. P. p. 31. l. 31. See Mr. Loves Sermon entituled Englands distemper c. pag. 16. Ibid. p. 19. I. P. p. 31. l. 35. See Mr. Loves Sermon entituled Englands distemper p. 23. I. P. pag. 32. l. 3. I. P p. 32. l. 11. I. P. p. 32. l. 25. I. P. p. 32. l. 38. See a short Treati se of Polit. Power by Dr. I●●n Pennet ● 6. pag. 49. See Dr. P●nnets Treatise of Polit. Power cap. 6. I. P. Pag. 33. l. 30. See image of Ier. and Bab. by P D. M. p. 82. Beza lib. confes. Christianae fidei cap. 5. Ecclesia circa finem Beza in confess fidei Christianae c. 5. Sect. 45. I. P. p. 34. l. 29. I. P. pa. 34. l. 31. I. P. p. 35. l. 3. In casu necesstatis licita est defensio per magistratum infe●●oorem 〈◊〉 superiorem D. Paraeus in c. 13. ad Rom. p. 262. Christianes 〈◊〉 minus quam alios quos●unque potesta●● subject●● esse debere non tantum fide ●lus sed etiam infidelibus sed c D. Paraeus in Rom. 13. v. 1. Vide Paraeum in explic dubiorum in c. 13. ad Rom. Prop. 2. p. 262. I. P. pa. 35. l. 8. Sacra Theolog. per Dudleium Fennor c. 13. de Politeiae-civili p. 80. I. P. p. 35. l. 15. Quum Consensu suffragi●s totius an● certe 〈◊〉 is multitudinis Tyr●annus tol●itu●r deo fit auspice Zuingl in explanatione Articuli 42. p. 85. Tom. 1. Zuingl●●●… exp. Arn● 42 p. 84. Tom 1. 1. P. p. 35 l. 17. Lex Rex quest 31. p. 330. Il. p. 104 105. Quest 14. Ib. p. 233. qu. 26 M. Prynnes speech in the House of Common Decemb. 4. 1648. p. 77. Iohn Price his Snapsack p. 8. Iohn Goodwin Anticaval p. 10 11. See the Armies Remonstrance of Iune 23. 1647. p. 12. See the Armies Proposalls Aug. 1. 1647. I. P. p. 37. l. 25. Judg. 20. See a Letter from Sir Tho. Fairfax to both Houses of Parliament Dated from Redding Iuly 6. 1647. which he declared to be the generall sense of all or most part of the Officer in the Army 2. 1 Sam. 24. 6 7. 13. 1 Sam. 26. 8 9. 1 Sam. 26. 10 11. Mr. Prynnes third part of the Soveraigne Power of Parliaments and Kingdoms p. 95. 2 King 9. 7. 2 Kings 10. 6. Hosea 1. 4. 2 Kings 21. 23 24. 1 Kings 16. 8 9. 1 Kings 16. 16. 1 Kings 16. 18. 2 Kings 12. 19 20 21. 2 Kings 14. 5. 2 Kings 15. 10. 14. 1 King 16. 25. Micah 6. 16. 2 King 16. 21. Mr. Arth. I ackson in his pious and learned Annotations hath a good observation It seems saith hee the people misliking the King the Souldiers chose this Ti●ni to be their K. between whom there was continuall war for three years and upwards c. I. P. p. 38. l. 34. I. P. pa. 40. l. 16. Iohn Price his Snapsack p. 8. All the godly learned conscientious Ministers are for defensive arms few there are of the contrary judgment but Papists Atheists Prelates Delinquents and prophane wretches I. P. p. 41. ● 24. I. P. pa. 42. l. 5. 2 Tim. 4. 10. I. P. p. 44. l. ●2 p. 45 46. Mal. 3. 15. Eccl. 7. 15. Judg. 20. 18. 23. I. P. pa. 49. l. 8. Read 2 Kings 11. 2. 12 c. I. P. p. 50. l. 1. I. P. p. 55 l. 8.

pretended to be be the Prophets of the Lord so the Pope Christs grand Embassadour and Vicar upon earth so the Popish Priests and Jesuites the Ministers of Christ c. Answ. 1. The Letter writers are as they say Ministers of the Gospel and doe not you say so too dare you say the contrary I am sure you were of this mind when you 〈…〉 Spirituall Snaps●ck for Parliament Souldiers there you 〈…〉 learned and conscientious Ministers in one place 〈…〉 godly Divines in another if you be otherwise 〈…〉 would better become you to have brought 〈…〉 throw their Calling then 〈◊〉 and slanders to 〈…〉 names 2. Because the false Prophets said they were Prophets of the Lord c. would you inserte hence the Subscribers are not Ministers of the Gospel Paul said he was an Apostle● false Teachers said they were Apostles when they were not was 〈◊〉 therefore no Apostle John Price saith he deals honestly in 〈◊〉 trade common cheaters will say that they deal honestly also will it therefore follow John Price doth not deal honestly this is all the force your reasoning hath with it which smel● more of the Exchange then the Universitie more of John Price his shop then John Goodwins study Surely who ever among them can vindicate their divine origination these men have administred cause sufficient to question their abilities hereunto Answ. 1. You that make a doubt whether the Ministers can vindicate their divine origination it were well you who presume to be a Teacher in Israel would make good your own tel me in your next whence had you it whether from the shop in the Exchange or the alley in Colemanstreet 2. Whereas you say they have administred cause sufficient to question their Minister●all abilities this is so palpable a calumny that I need not confute you therein because you confute your self In your Epistle you say of the subscribers in the generall that they are judicious grave and learned men and in pag. 12. in the body of your book you say of some of the subscribers that they are wise and good men now if the subscribers be judicious grave learned wise and good men what cause sufficient is administred to question their Ministe●riall abilities Surely were the Apostle Paul upon the earth hee would never question the Ministriall abilities of judicious grave learned wise and good men nor would hee approve them as fit for the Ministery who are injudic●ous raw illiterate indiscree● and bad men yet such are the Teachers you cry up and the others you cry down me thinks if you doubt of their office you should not question their gifts also Some of them have promoted incouraged and ●●etted the very selfe same actions done at another time by other persons as we shall speak to anon which here they 〈◊〉 and branded 〈◊〉 an ●●cursed thing Answ. You neither name the men nor mention the actions when you particular●i●e the men and specifie the actions which at one time they promoted and encouraged and at another anathemati●ed and branded it will then be time enough to give you a particular answer for the present I shall say but this to you by way of Retortion this Brat may be laid at your doores you promoted encouraged and abetted the forcing of the Parliament by the Army at one time yet condemned the violence offered by the King at another but the Ministers of London did not thus they mislik't it in the one as well as in the other Poor London thy Prophets make thee to erre c. Answ. 1. Poor London indeed and it is like to be poorer before you have done with it I could tell who have made themselves rich and the City poor 2. You would have said more truly if you had said thus London of late hath made her Prophets poor rather then the Prophets made London erre 3. You say her Prophets make her err had you named the men and particularized the errors it would have been more credible and demonstrable but generall accusations are no proofes I am sure one Prophet of your own hath vented more grosse and pernicious errors in one year then can be fastned upon all the subscribers throughout the Course of their Ministery None of the subscribers ever held that the English Scriptures or that book called the Bible is not the Word of God that no writings whatsoever whether translations or originalls are the foundation of Christian Religion that a natural man had free wil and power to do good supernatural that those without the Gospel written or preacht have sufficient means for beleeving that the sun moon and stars are the Apostles of Christ to preach the Gospel unto them But these with many others have been invented by Mr. J. Goodwin as may appear in his Hagiomastix and by Divine Authority of the Scriptures quoted in the Testimony of the London Ministers against errors c. I would fain know whether any or all the subscribers have taught any error that carries the least proportion to any of these let the world then judge what Prophets they are that make London to erre One while thou mayst take up arms by the instigation of thy Ministers to maintain the cause of God decency of wooship viz. the Prelaticall faction or the glorious interest of the Clergy thereof another while thou must arm thy self from the same instigations to sacrifice thy gold and silver thy monies and thy plate upon the happy promotion of the House of God the government of Christ c. Answ. 1. This is to notorious a falsity the very mention is a sufficient Confutation did ever any of the Letter-writers as you scoffingly call them ever instigate the people to maintain the Prelaticall faction or the Clergy thereof 't is well known the Prelates were nevee friends to them nor they to the Prelates wherefore the Lord rebuke thee thou lying tongue who goest about to belye their persons when thou canst not confute their doctrin 2. For the latter part of your charge that they did move the people to sacrifice their silver gold monies plate for the promotion of the House of God c. I verily thought that you would mention this as an ornament to the Ministery not a reproach to their persons I am sure you were of this mind when you made your Snapsack for the Parliament souldiers you encouraged the souldiers in the Parliaments war that all the learned godly orthodox conscientious Ministers did join issue with them justifie defensive arms did you commend the Ministers then and dare you blame them now by this I see you have a musty budget out of which at one time you can bring lyes and slanders against the Ministers as well as a Spirituall Snapsack wherein you have Encomiums of their praise The ancient love anion and goodnesse of thine i.e. Londons inhabitants is turned into hatred division and bitternesse each against other causing thy foundations to shake and thy

pillars to tremble which is all the ben fit thou hast received by the exchange of thy late Diocesse for the Province of London Answ 1. I perceive you are a chip of the old block like master like man Iohn Goodwin indeed said that all the successe the Ministers of London had in converting of soules for three or foure years last past unlesse from God to Satan may be cast up with a Cypher and measured with a reed that never grew One may see by this you are his scholar to fasten on the London Ministers so notorious a falsity that all the benefit the City hath received by them is but to turn its ancient love union and goodnesse into hatred division and bitternesse each against other 2. This is so notorious a calumny that many of your own party blush to read it and acknowledge it ever God did the●e soules good it was by the Ministery of those men whom you falsly accuse 3. It were well that you and others who say the labours of the London Ministers are insuccessefull would consider whether the spirit of the Lord be not departed from your Congregations since you have fallen into separation whether more hath not been perverted then converted by your Ministers For my part I cannot discern any signalls or seals to the Ministery of many of your separated congregations of bringing sheep to Christs fold but of stealing sheep out of the flock brought in by the blessing of God upon other mens labours 4. Whereas you say that all the benefit London hath received by the Ministers is but to turn the ancient love and union of the inhabitants thereof into hatred and division all that I shall say to the slander is this the Lord bee Judge between them and you London was once a City at union within it self and did serve the Lord with one consent and carry on the work of the Lord with one shoulder untill men of your turbulent faction and humour fell to schisme and separation gathering Churches out of Churches and that not when declining but when reforming a practice never heard of before late years these and such like practices of yours have turned Londons ancient love union and goodnesse into hatred division and bitternesse one against another 5. By these last words viz. which is all the benefit thou hast received by the exchange of thy late Diocesse for the Province of London by this I perceive Iohn Price had rather have London a Diocesse then a Province and thinks London in a better condition under Prelacy then with Presbytery of this I say no more I wish you had not said so much That which Gregory wrote to Mauritius concerning the ambition of the Prelaticall Patriarchs of Constantinople may be as truly said of our present Clergy men exclamare compellor ac dicere O tempora O mores c. that is I am compelled to cry out Oh times Oh manners behold in all the parts of Europe Townes are destroyed Castles overthrown Provinces are spoyled no labourer inhabiteth the land notwithstanding the Priests who should lye in a●he● upon the ground weeping they are seeking to themselves names of v●nity c. Greg. lib. 4. Epist. 323. Answ. 1. Who would have thought that Iohn Price had studyed Pope Greg●●y That he that cries out against all ordained Ministers as having the mark of the Beast should study the language of the beast 2. The passage you quote out of Gregory is said to be in the fourth book Epist. 323. whereas Gregory hath but 56 Epistles in all in his fourth book if Iohn Price should quote the third Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians when Paul wrote but two Epistles to them I would say he were as ignorant in Pauls Epistles as in Gregories Epistles As I know Pope Gregory never saw your face so this mistake makes me think you never saw his Epistle let me tell you though you mistake Gregory to have more Epistles then he had yet Gregory the Executioner may not mistake you to have more necks then you have if you persist to justifie the Killing the King forcing the Parliament imprisoning the Members altering the fundamentall government of the Kingdom as you have done already 3. Let me know in the next whence this grosse mistake did arise either from the carelesnesse of the Printer or the ignorance of you the Authour that I may help this poor Ignoramus at a dead list I shall let you know that it is true indeed there is such an Epistle of Gregories to M●●ritius and such words as you mention but 't is in lib. 4. Epist. 32. yet what was then said by him concerning Iohn Bishop of Constantinople other Bishops cannot as truly be said of our present Clergy men as you falsly affirm for it will evidently appear to you if you read the whole 32. Epistle that the name of vanity that some did desire was to be Universall Bishop 〈…〉 then hee comes in with the words you quote O tempora O 〈…〉 then he goes on Qui● est qui contra 〈…〉 Now I leave it to your self to be Judg 〈◊〉 be said of our present Clergy men as your reproachfully 〈◊〉 them at Gregory of th●se Bishops did ever any subscribers of the letter affect the name of Bishop in the Prelaticall sense did any of them arrogate the Title of Universall Bishop or any other name of vanity of the like nature if not then what Gregory said of those Bishops cannot as truely be said of our present Clergy men as you slanderously affirm Besides what names of vanity do the Ministers seek to themselves are they any other then Ministers of the Gospel Preachers of the Word Embassadors of Christ if these be the names of vanity do not you count Christ vain in giving these names unto his Ministers Which if you doe I shall esteem you a man of vanity and blasphemy too To conclude my answer to this Quotation out of Gregory I shall only give you this counsell that it would better become such a raw novice to study Perkins Principles then Gregories Epistles Was not the late second Warre and the flames thereof kindled and blown up by the Pulpit Incendiaries the like Ministers of the Gospel Embassadours of Iesus Christ viz. the ambitous Presbyters who are now again by their fiery tongues and furious pens scattering their furious Pamphlets among the people and hissing them on to a third war resolving as it appears to see the Kingdom in ashes but they will have their wishes Answ. 1. Surely you think your tongue is your own else you durst never be so frolick of your slanders the blame of the first warre nay of the second yea of instigating to a third you lay upon the godly Ministers of the City I wonder your heart did not tremble and you hand shake when you wrote these lines had you not a brow of brass you would blush and be ashamed for raising against them such improbable and incredible

ever yet understand You pretend you can shew their books and Sermons for it but I am very confident you can shew none 2. I observe you promise in your book more then you make good you promise as if you would shew severall bookes and Sermons of the subscribers yet you quote but one viz. Mr. Loves Sermon at Vnbridge now because you single him out from among his Brethren I shall therefore speak the more in his vindication 1. I perceive you quote Mr. Love no lesse then ten times in your Clerico-Classicum yet never mention him at all in your Pulpit Incendiary so that it seems you could not them rake together so much matter against him as to make him a Pulpit Incendiary 2. I took notice further that you quote him in the front spice of your book as if what you had alledged from him would have made much for your cause for bringing the King to Capitall punishment his words you quote are these Men of blood are not meet persons to be at peace with til all the guilt of blood be expiated avenged either by the sword of the Law or the law of the Sword else a peace can neither be safe nor just Chr. Love in his Englands distemper pag. 37. Answ. To which I have four things to say 1. There is no mention at all of the King either in that passage or any other part of his Sermon that Hee should be cut off 2. Mr. Love doth clearly expresse himselfe whom he means by those men of blood viz. not the King but as he saith pag. 32. of Englands distemper Many malignant humors are to be purged out of many of the Nobles and Gentry of this Kingdome before we can be healed 3. T is true Mr. Love then was and still is of that mind that those who were the chief instruments to engage the King in the late bloody War should be cut off either by the sword of the Law in a time of peace or if not reach them that way by the law of the sword in the time of war and this he and all others who approved of the Parliaments taking up of defensive arms and have taken the Covenant are bound in their places and Callings to indeavour after according to the fourth Article of the Covenant wherein we are bound that malignants may be brought to condigne punishment as the degree of their offence shall require or deserve or the supream Iudicatories respectively or others having power from them for that effect shall judg convenient Yet 4. Mr. Love doth well consider that in that very part of the Covenant where we promise to endeavour to bring Delinquents to condign punishment we promise to preserve the person of the King as Artic. 3. and 4. Yea those Mr. Love deems should be brought to condigne punishment whom the Covenant describes to be malignants and evill instruments viz. such as hinder the Reformation of Religion divide the King from his people and have not you done that or one of the Kingdomes from another or that make any factions or parties among the people of all which your selfe and the men you plead for have been most notoriously guilty as wel as the malignant therefore deserve to be brought to condign punishment as well as they As for that other passage of Mr. Loves in pag. 32. of his Sermon which you quote It will search to the quick to find out whether King James or Prince Henry his son came to a timely death yea or no It would ear●h to the quick whether Rochell was not betrayed and by whom It would goe to the quick to find out whether the Irish Rebellion was not plotted promoted and contrived in England and by whom Mr. Love in his Englands Distemper pag. 23. To this I have 3 things briefly to answer for his vindication viz. Mr. Loves desire is that the earth should not cover the blood of the slain but that the shedders of blood should be all made manifest he often wisht that the contrivers of the Rebellion in Ireland the Betrayers of the Protestants in Rotchell the Conspirators of King James or Prince Henrys death if they did come to an untimely end might be found out 2. I demand of you is there any clause in that Sermon or any tendency that way to charge the King with the death of King Iames or Prince Henry or with the blood of Rochell or Ireland 3. If he had charged all that blood upon the King which he did not yet there is not the least intimation in all his Sermon that you should bring the King to Capitall punishment Now that Mr. Loves judgment was utterly against cutting off the King I shall produce anon a book of his long since in print against that horrid attempt Was it not yet more of your ingenuity and candor to assert several notorious falsities and untruths as to instance pag. 6. of your Vindication in the margin where you say the Agreement of the people was the same for substance with that of the Armies and declared against by the Parliament in Decemb. 1647. there is one untruth again you say that one of the Souldiers was shot to death for promoting it this is first a most notorious untruth and secondly a most injurious charging the Army with the blood of that man the man that was shot to death was not at all so much as questioned for promoting that Agreement but being sent with his Company by the Generall to New-castle did with others make a mutiny resisted and beat their Officers tooke away the Colours from their Ensigne beat him with his own Colours for which this fellow that was sh●t to death was condemned c. Answ. 1. You who are so pragmaticall as to fasten falsities and untruths upon the Ministers will shew your self to be I say not the father of lies yet a son of falsehood 2. It seems you are put to your shifts in searching out any accusation against the subscribers for from their Representation you run to their Vindication and leap as far as the sixth page at once and therein it seems can meet with nothing for your purpose in the body of their book that you are forc't to pitch upon a small marginal note which I need not answer yet I shall and I hope clearly evidence that they speak truly but you falsly for you say it is said in the marginall note that the Agreement of the People is the same for substance with the Agreement of the Army I affirm 't is true though you say 't is false I have compared the one and the other together and find them for substance the same only I must confesse the late Agreement hath more pernicious passages in it then the former Agreement of the People had which was voted by the Commons assembled in Parliament 9. November 1647. to be destructive to the being of Parliaments and to the fundamentall Government of the Kingdome And afterwards in December 17. 1647.

did they pulled out Mr. Stevens and Collonel Birch by force and violence out of the House 3. The King was one of the three States who together with the two Houses was entrusted with the Supreame Authority of the Kingdome but the Army can lay no legall claime to any such authority 4. The King relinqui●ht the prosecution of the Members and promised to have a tenderness of the Parliaments Priviledges for the future but the Army avowes the act and per●ists in their force to this very day Again for the violence offred by the Apprentices on July 26. 1647. though I goe not about to extenuate it yet consider 1. They came unarmed to the Houses the Army came in a Hostile manner 2. They pulled none of the Members out of the House but the Army plucked Mr. Stevens and Col. B●rch out of the House where they were doing their Countrey service 3. They hindred none of the Members from comming to fit in the House but the Army excluded and kept by force above a hundred Members from ●itting in the House 4. They when they heard of an O●der forbidding ●hem to co●● to Westminster the next day did desist did so no more but the Army persists in what they have done to this very day If these things were compared together John Price had as good b●at the air yea his brains too against the wall as to goe about to justifie that unparalleld violence offered the Parliament by the Army yet condemne a lesser violence offered by the King and the Apprentices 4. Whereas you say you are like to hear no Reply to it I would ask you did you think your self such a stout champion and potent Goliah that none durst come forth and encounter with you The reason why you have had no Reply sooner wa● that some wise men esteem your self so unworthy and your book so weak that neither deserves an answer I am almost perswaded you did not look for a Reply if you had surely you would never have written so rawly weakly falsely and inconsiderately as you have done ever and anon exposing your nakednesse to the lash of any adversary that should deal with you Supposing that when Argument Scripture and reason cannot helpe you yet the Protestation Vow and Covenant will do it these like the Egyptian reeds run into your ●ides and do no service at all for you but discover your nakednesse Answ. 1. There is a sufficiency in scripture and reason to justifie them and condemne you now if ex abundanti they can plead the Protestation the Vow the League and Covenant also this makes their cause more strong and yours more weak 2. If these sacred oaths were well considered it will appear they are as pillars of Marble on which the Ministers safely stand but like Egyptian reeds run into your sides and cause the shame of your nakednesse to bee made manifest You begin with the Protestation whereby you say wee are tyed to His just Authority and not abstractively to His Person if acting contrary to his just Authority and that the Protestation i● complex● for the priviledges of the Parliament and liberties of the Subject as well as the Person of the King if the Person of the King be ingaged against the priviledges of the Parliament or Liberties of the Subjects the Protestatio● cannot be obligatory Answ. 1. I see you are a pregnant scholar in the Jesuites school you have learnt their Art of Equ●vocation and Mentall reservation in all that you say or swear an oath hath no more hold upon your conscience then a loose collar about an Apes neck which hee can put on and off at pleasure 2. Why did not you tell the world this your mentall reserve that if the King did any thing contrary to his just authority that then the Protestation was not obligatory but you might destroy His Person 3. The Protestation did bind us to preserve the Kings Person according to the duty of our Allegiance wherein you swore to defend the KINGS PERSON and that oath you took according to the expresse words and their plain and commonsense without any Equivocation or mentall Evasion or secret Reservation whats●ever 4. It seems you your selfe did once deem the Protestation to be obligatory in reference to the Kings person notwithstanding Hee should act contrary to His just authority for long after the Person of the King was ingaged against the priviledges of Parliament and liberties of the Subject in demanding the 5 Members setting up His Standard and in His own Person ingaging in a War against His Subjects yet I say after all this in your Spirituall Snapsack pag. 8. you tell the Parliaments Souldiers that without all contradictions they did fight for the King to rescue him out of the ●ands of Malignants and re-instate him in his Royall Throne c. With what an impudent face and traiterous heart can you at one time plead for the Souldiers to bring the King to a dolefull scaffold when at another time you tell the Souldiers they fight to re-instate Him in His Royal throne 5. Yea the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament who are the best interpreters of the Protestation declared that notwithstanding His Majesties Proclamations against their Generall and Army as Traytors yet they will preserve His Majesties Person and Cr●wn from all dangers yea that they would suffer farre more for and from their Soveraign then they hoped God would ever permit the malice of His wicked Counsellors to put them to yea when the Houses were taxt that their intent was to murder and depose the King they declared that the thoughts of it never entred nor should enter into their Loyall hearts and they hoped the Contrivers of these scandalou● reports or any that professed the name of a Christian could not have so little charity as to raise such a scandall especially when they must needs know the Protestation made by the Members of both Houses wherby they promise in the presence of Almighty God to defend preserve his Majesties Person By al which it appears both Houses thought the Protestation obligatory though you doe not touching the defence of the Kings Person notwithstanding His doing many acts contrary to His just Authority to the priviledges of Parliament or Liberties of the People 6. When the Trained-bands Seamen of London did wear the Protestation in their hats on their pikes ingaging themselves to King and Parliament can it be imagined that they had this mental reservation that if the King should go about to infringe the priviledges of Parliament or liberties of the People they were no longer bound to preserve His Person but might cut off His head Had you then made this Paraphrase upon the Protestation you should have lost your head and not the King His But you go on We are bound say you by this Protest●tion to maintain and defend the King Parliament and People so farre a● lawfully we may which referres

Westminster whom I could name but that naming men now in the House would be accounted breach of priviledg when pulling Members out hath been esteemed none did imploy Walker the Mercury man who writes the Perfect Occurrences to get this booke being translated into English to be printed it seems themselves were ashamed of it suspecting that it might bee known to be Parsons the Jesuite if it had continued still under the name of Junius Bru●us and therefore they did make a new Title to this book which is this Four great Questions concerning the Tryall of the King as it was delivered to the Colonells and Generall Officers of the Army and presented to the High Court of Iustice appointed by an Act of the Commons of England for Tryall of the King I only mention this that it might appeare unto the world that the Bookes Principles and Counsells of the Jesuites had a great concurrence with if not influence upon the late Transactions of the Army and High Court in putting the King to death You goe on and discerning a scarcity of Protestant Divines you are beholding to Popish Presidents to help you out you say Christierne lost the Crown of Denmapke c. Answ. True he did so but yet he did not lose his life but you have made King Charles lose his Crown and life together Christierne was only restrained as a Prisoner but not adjudged to dye Besides the Kings of Denmarke come in meerly by election but the Kings of England by a rightfull succession So that your instance of Christierne will not advantage you a whit Edward the second say you lost the crown of England for the same mis-government as our late King lost His Crowne and head Answ. 1. This was in the time of Popery are Popish practices good patterns for Protestants to walk by 2. Edward the second did not lose His Crown by a judicial Deprivation but by a constrained Resignation 3. He was never legally arraigned and brought to tryall in Parliament for his life 4. T is to be observed that Mortimer who had the chief hand in deposing King Edward the second was in the Parliament of 4 E. 3. condemned and executed as a Traitor and guilty of High treason for murdering Edward the second at Berkely castle although he was deposed It may be after Parliaments may call some of you to account for the Kings death That superiour Magistrates may be put to death by the inferiour because Domestick Tyrants are chiefly to be represt was the opinion of Pareus in his Commentary on Judges Answ. Indeed in his Comment on the Romanes he saith that in case of necessity the inferiour Magistrate may lawfully defend himself against the superiour but hath not a word in his Comment on the Iudges that I can find that superiour Magistrates may be put to death by the inferior Surely Pareus would not say one thing in his Comment on Iudges and the quite contrary in his Comment on the Romans He saith expresly that Christians no lesse then others ought to be subject to the Powers not only when believers but when Infidel●s as all the powers then were not only to the me●k and just but to the froward and unjust c. T is true Pareus pleads for defensive arms in case of necessity and so doe I but yet hee never went in so high a strain to plead for the killing of Kings and Princes yea when Pareus speaks of defensive arms hee doth it with abundance of wisdome and caution Subditi saith he non privati sed in magistratu inferiori constituti adversus superiorem magistratum se Rempublicam ecclesiam seu veram Religionem etiam armis defendere possunt His positis Conditionibus cum superior ma●istratus degenerat in Tyrannum 2. Aut ad manifestam idolotatriam atque blasphemias ipsas vel subditos alios suae fidei commissos vult cogere c. The sum of what he saith is this that it is lawfull not for private men but for the inferiour magistrates to defend the Church and Common-wealth against the superior Magistrate yet he laies down 6 conditious or limitations provided that the Superiour Magistrate degenerates into a Tyrant that He compells His Subjects to manifest idolatry and blasphemy and that they keep themselves in the bounds of selfe-defences according to the Laws c. Now can it be imagined that Pareus should lay down so many cautions to justifie a defensive war in his Comment on the Romans and yet affirm that the superior Magistrate may be put to death by the inferiour It makes me think that you never read Pareus his works or if you did that you intended to be lye him as you have done many others Besides Pareus never made a Comment upon Iudges all his life after hee was dead there was found some short notes written in his own Bible only for his own private use which his son Philip Pareus did lately put among his other works That famous Dudley Fennor affirms that an evill Prince may bee taken away in a time of peace or by warre which they may do who are either Ephori or ordinum omnium conventus saith he Answ. 1. You use still your wonted stratagem to alledg Authors mention their names but give no notice in what page that passage is which you quote of theirs which must argue either your ignorance of such mens works or else a purpose in you to deceive the Reader and abuse the Authors you quote 2. Though I am not bound to answer you in every Author you quote at large yet for disputes sake I shall yeeld to your weakness t is true Dudly Fennor hath some such words in his Sacra Theolog. cap. 13. de Politeia civili p. 80. though you pervert them wofully you had shewed your ingenuity had you quoted all that Dudly Fennor spake touching the point in hand He doth distinguish of a Tyrant there is Tyrannus sine titulo and tyrannus exercitio Tyrannus sine titulo est qui imperium ad se absque legitimâ ratione rapit huic quisque privatus resistat si possit è medio tollat that is A Tyrant without a title is such a one who by force and fraud hath got the Government of a Kingdome into his hands when he hath no legall claim thereto now such a one saith he any private man may resist and take him out of the world Put case O. Cromwell or any other man who hath no legall claime to the Crown should by force and fraud usurpe to himself the Kingdome such an one is Tyrannus fine titulo and if you wil follow Dudly Fennor he gives liberty that any private man may resist such a one yea if he can take him out of the world I hardly beleive that Dudly Fennors doctrine whom you call famous would please at White-hall Again when he comes to speak of a Tyrant not in title but in the exercise of